The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1864 - Alex Berenson

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:13.000 Smell that?

00:00:15.000 That's vindication.

00:00:17.000 You are the sweet smell of vindication.

00:00:21.000 Not yet, my friend, not yet.

00:00:23.000 Not yet, but it's definitely in the air.

00:00:26.000 Has there ever been a person that has gone to court and got back on Twitter besides you?

00:00:32.000 There has not.

00:00:33.000 That's pretty impressive.

00:00:35.000 That's pretty impressive.

00:00:38.000 There's more common.

00:00:39.000 There's more?

00:00:40.000 Oh, yeah.

00:00:41.000 So explain the process.

00:00:43.000 So you were...

00:00:45.000 What was the exact definition of what they kicked you off for?

00:00:50.000 Are we live?

00:00:51.000 Yeah, we're live.

00:00:52.000 Oh, good, good.

00:00:52.000 We're rolling.

00:00:52.000 Okay.

00:00:53.000 All right.

00:00:55.000 So it was almost exactly this time last year, Joe.

00:00:58.000 It was August 28th, 2021. I wrote a tweet that began, It doesn't stop infection or transmission.

00:01:07.000 And they banned me.

00:01:09.000 I went on to say, this is not a vaccine or don't think of it as a vaccine.

00:01:14.000 Think of it as a therapeutic, meaning a drug that has side effects and that you have to dose in advance of illness.

00:01:21.000 And then the last line was, and we want to mandate it?

00:01:24.000 Insanity.

00:01:25.000 Okay.

00:01:25.000 I would say that that's been pretty well vindicated by events.

00:01:30.000 That's vindication.

00:01:33.000 So they banned me.

00:01:35.000 They said that was my fifth strike and that I was not allowed to tweet anymore and my account was not available to anybody.

00:01:42.000 All the previous tweets were gone.

00:01:44.000 The 300,000 people, too bad.

00:01:47.000 So I sued them in December.

00:01:51.000 And it gets interesting and tricky.

00:01:55.000 So other people have sued Twitter and Facebook and YouTube and Wikipedia, actually all these companies, and said, you know, you've banned us.

00:02:09.000 I just want to be able to use your platform.

00:02:11.000 I haven't done anything wrong.

00:02:13.000 And the companies say, we can do whatever we want.

00:02:15.000 We can ban you. 0.97

00:02:16.000 We can attach labels to your tweets, this, that, and the other.

00:02:21.000 And there's a law called Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

00:02:26.000 It's a federal law from 1998, I want to say, maybe 96, that basically was intended for two purposes.

00:02:35.000 Purpose one was We don't want these companies to get sued over stuff that people are saying on them.

00:02:42.000 So in other words, I go on and I say, you know, terrible things, defamatory things about Joe Rogan.

00:02:47.000 Or I say terrible things about my ex-wife.

00:02:50.000 Whatever. 1.00

00:02:50.000 Or I say, you know, go shoot the president. 1.00

00:02:53.000 Whatever it is that I'm saying, I'm saying something that's harassing or hateful or illegal. 0.99

00:02:58.000 We can't expect...

00:03:00.000 A bulletin board or Facebook or Twitter or whoever to police all that stuff.

00:03:07.000 There's too much of it.

00:03:08.000 It's not fair.

00:03:09.000 So we're going to give them complete protection from that.

00:03:12.000 And that makes total sense, by the way.

00:03:14.000 You can't have these people policing everything that's uploaded or downloaded.

00:03:20.000 It's not within their capability.

00:03:22.000 The second idea was we want these folks to be able...

00:03:27.000 To give their users a better experience.

00:03:30.000 And so we're going to give them some protection, limited protection, to moderate the content that's posted.

00:03:36.000 Meaning, let's say I'm posting tons of pornography, and I'm posting it to a Christian website that's advertising itself as a family-friendly place.

00:03:49.000 The idea was the 230 is going to allow me to take action against that user in good faith for harassing or objectionable content.

00:04:00.000 So I'm going to be allowed to ban stuff or to age restrict it.

00:04:04.000 And that was really intended when you look back at the statute for pornography especially.

00:04:11.000 Okay.

00:04:13.000 What happened was the companies, with the help of the Ninth Circuit, which is the federal judges in California, which is where most of these companies are based, California and the West Coast, managed to get...

00:04:31.000 Bigger protection.

00:04:32.000 And this really, this was happening for a while and then it really happened in 2015. There was this case where a group of Sikhs, you know, an Indian minority group, the government of India went to Facebook and said, we don't like these people.

00:04:45.000 They're protesting against us.

00:04:47.000 You got to ban them.

00:04:48.000 You got to ban their group website.

00:04:50.000 And Facebook said, okay.

00:04:52.000 And pulled them.

00:04:54.000 They sued Facebook.

00:04:55.000 They said, this is not right.

00:04:57.000 And by the way, this was a classic example of a government not wanting dissent.

00:05:05.000 The Indian government didn't want to deal with this group, so they told Facebook to ban it.

00:05:12.000 The Ninth Circuit said, that 230 protection that allows you Complete immunity, if Alex Berenson says, you know, here's naked pictures of my ex-girlfriend, that also allows you to ban whoever you want,

00:05:32.000 whenever you want.

00:05:33.000 I think?

00:05:56.000 And every time somebody has sued, the companies have said, look at Sikhs versus Facebook.

00:06:02.000 We win.

00:06:03.000 And that's basically been how it's been.

00:06:05.000 They've been allowed to do whatever they want.

00:06:08.000 And so, by the way, I know I'm not even talking about my case yet, but this is the legal background.

00:06:12.000 So sometimes when conservatives say, hey, we need to ban 230, we need to repeal 230, That's actually not true.

00:06:20.000 You just need to have the courts interpret 230 the right way, which is you don't get to sue Facebook or Twitter for these defamatory or harassing or illegal posts that other people are putting up.

00:06:33.000 But at the same time, they shouldn't have blanket protection for their own decisions.

00:06:38.000 So they've had the best of both worlds.

00:06:40.000 They call themselves publishers when they want.

00:06:42.000 And as a publisher, I have the protection to publish who I like, not publish who I like.

00:06:46.000 But I'm not a publisher from the point of view.

00:06:50.000 I'm more like a telephone company if somebody does something bad over my airwaves.

00:06:55.000 Does that make sense?

00:06:55.000 That's how they've gotten.

00:06:56.000 Okay.

00:06:57.000 Okay.

00:06:57.000 All right.

00:06:59.000 So, fast forward.

00:07:01.000 Berenson sues.

00:07:02.000 Berenson v.

00:07:02.000 Twitter.

00:07:04.000 Here's what I had.

00:07:05.000 I had...

00:07:07.000 I had emails from a guy inside Twitter named Brandon Borman, who is a pretty senior executive.

00:07:14.000 He was their vice president of communications, telling me explicitly, hey, we know what you're saying.

00:07:21.000 We are in favor of encouraging debate about COVID. That was in 2020. And then in early 2021, he even went on to say, we're encouraging debate about the vaccines.

00:07:31.000 And we don't think you're doing anything wrong.

00:07:34.000 So I said...

00:07:37.000 Not only are they violating my rights as an American and the California constitution actually has additional free speech protections and I think they're violating those too.

00:07:48.000 They're specifically, they made these promises to me.

00:07:52.000 They modified their contract with me.

00:07:56.000 And there's a broader point that's important to everybody.

00:08:00.000 When they say we have a COVID misinformation policy or we have a election misinformation policy or, you know, pretty soon they'll probably have a climate change misinformation policy, whatever these policies are that govern what you can and can't say on their platform.

00:08:16.000 They have to follow those.

00:08:18.000 So even if they say their contract – and, you know, if you sign up for Twitter, you know, you click on something at the end and you've signed a contract with them basically.

00:08:29.000 And that contract is written by their lawyers.

00:08:31.000 It's very favorable to them, very unfavorable to you as the user.

00:08:35.000 They're modifying that.

00:08:37.000 Okay?

00:08:37.000 That was our argument.

00:08:39.000 They are modifying that when they put out a COVID-19 misinformation policy.

00:08:43.000 They don't have to have a COVID-19 misinformation policy.

00:08:45.000 They could say, hey, we're Twitter.

00:08:47.000 We're going to ban you whenever we want for whatever reason.

00:08:50.000 I think?

00:09:16.000 I think Berenson's got a case.

00:09:17.000 I'm going to allow this lawsuit to proceed.

00:09:19.000 I'm not going to dismiss it.

00:09:21.000 And that was a major event, you know, in sort of the point of view of internet law.

00:09:28.000 Because, again, even though I did have these communications with Borman that other people don't have, this broader issue...

00:09:39.000 Of whether or not these platforms, when they tell you, we're going to have this strike policy, we're going to do these things, do they have to follow that?

00:09:48.000 That's the question.

00:09:50.000 Again, if the argument is, I'm Twitter or I'm Facebook, I'm all powerful, I operate under 230, and I'm going to kick you off whenever they want, they've got to tell people that.

00:10:01.000 Instead, it's like, well, as long as you play within the rules and you color by our guidelines, it's okay.

00:10:08.000 And then they don't even do that.

00:10:10.000 Now you can sue them.

00:10:12.000 So you sue and then did they settle?

00:10:16.000 So I sue in December.

00:10:18.000 In April, we get this ruling.

00:10:20.000 And the judge doesn't allow everything to proceed, which from my point of view is sort of unfortunate.

00:10:24.000 He didn't allow my big claims on the First Amendment or my California claims to proceed.

00:10:30.000 And frankly, I still think there's a chance...

00:10:34.000 Whether it's me or, you know, it's not me, but whether it's somebody else going forward might be able to have a good claim on California constitutional law.

00:10:44.000 Because, again, Twitter is based in California and the California Constitution is even more protective of free speech than the U.S. Constitution.

00:10:53.000 It actually says, for example, the way it's been interpreted in California, the California Constitution, if you own a mall...

00:11:00.000 You have to let people come in and protest.

00:11:03.000 Even if they're, you know, like from the Vietnam War on, even though that's a private facility, you, because you're running this place that's open to the public and that a lot of people who, you know, go to, it becomes almost a public facility for the purposes of the California Constitution.

00:11:20.000 And my argument, my lawyer's argument is Twitter is...

00:11:25.000 Twitter is a huge public space.

00:11:27.000 It's referred to itself as a public square many times.

00:11:30.000 It should be forced to do the same thing under California law. 0.91

00:11:34.000 And if the federal law, if 230 blocks that, now we have an issue of, you know, does the federal law go too far and sort of hurt First Amendment protections?

00:11:44.000 But put all that aside.

00:11:44.000 Judge didn't allow any of that stuff.

00:11:46.000 But what he did allow was my breach of contract claim to proceed, and he did something else, Joe.

00:11:52.000 He said, this guy's going to get discovery.

00:11:57.000 So discovery is a legal term.

00:12:00.000 It means that the two parties have to exchange information in a civil lawsuit.

00:12:06.000 And it's actually kind of amazing, if you think about this, that this is how this works.

00:12:10.000 The lawyers for Twitter were going to go to Twitter and say, you've got to give us all your documents where Alex Berenson is named, whether that's internal or whether that's Pfizer emailing about him or whatever it is.

00:12:27.000 And we're going to hand that over to his lawyers so he can help sue us.

00:12:31.000 And I had to do the same thing.

00:12:32.000 I mean, for me, it's not a big deal.

00:12:34.000 You know, it's like me and my phone or whatever.

00:12:38.000 And then he said, the judge said...

00:12:42.000 I would get to depose two Twitter executives.

00:12:45.000 And that could be anybody.

00:12:46.000 He didn't put any limits on it.

00:12:47.000 So that could have been like Jack Dorsey.

00:12:49.000 Okay?

00:12:50.000 So if you're a big company, that's a nightmare for you.

00:12:53.000 You do not want that.

00:12:54.000 You do not want to have to go through discovery.

00:12:56.000 You do not want to have to go through depositions.

00:12:58.000 You just want...

00:13:00.000 You want a lawsuit to go away.

00:13:03.000 Okay?

00:13:04.000 So...

00:13:04.000 And my position was...

00:13:07.000 Look, the judge gave me this stuff.

00:13:09.000 I'm not backing off.

00:13:11.000 I want those depositions.

00:13:13.000 I want this discovery.

00:13:16.000 And I want the right to make it public.

00:13:18.000 And so Twitter, I did not think we were going to be able to settle.

00:13:23.000 But Twitter and I, in June, we had this long mediation, and I can't sort of talk about how that went specifically, but I can tell you that at the end of, well, July 6th, they reinstated me to the platform.

00:13:42.000 We settled.

00:13:45.000 I guess you could argue they didn't apologize, but they acknowledged they were wrong to have taken me off last August.

00:13:53.000 And, and this is the really good part, since then I've been publishing internal documents where Twitter says that they came under pressure from the federal government to ban me.

00:14:08.000 So, this to me, so people said when I settled, and it's funny, it was actually people on the right, they said, this guy, he took all this money to sue Twitter.

00:14:18.000 He didn't care.

00:14:19.000 He just wanted to get back on the platform.

00:14:21.000 He just wanted to be able to tweet.

00:14:23.000 He wanted some money from Twitter.

00:14:25.000 That's what he got.

00:14:26.000 He promised you he'd get discovery.

00:14:28.000 He didn't get it.

00:14:30.000 Nothing's ever going to happen with this.

00:14:32.000 Well...

00:14:33.000 Screw those people too, okay?

00:14:35.000 Because I've now been publishing documents that show that the White House wanted me banned.

00:14:42.000 And that is the biggest part of all of this, okay?

00:14:45.000 That's where the story is going now.

00:14:46.000 That people inside the White House...

00:14:50.000 And this is Twitter employees talking to each other about a meeting that they had in April of 2021 before Twitter had ever done anything to me where they said that the White House said, why is this guy still allowed to tweet?

00:15:04.000 And at that time, they were saying to each other, these Twitter employees, we think he's fine.

00:15:10.000 I think we're good to go.

00:15:27.000 And then less or barely a month after that, four hours after that, I should say, Twitter puts a strike against me.

00:15:34.000 They begin the process of deplatforming me.

00:15:37.000 Six weeks later, they deplatform me.

00:15:40.000 So my position—and I'm going to sue.

00:15:42.000 I've said I'm going to sue the White House, and I'm going to sue a guy named Andy Slavitt, who's named in these documents, who was working at the White House at the time— My position is that there are people inside the Biden administration who violated my rights as an American citizen, violated my First Amendment rights,

00:15:59.000 tried to get Twitter to suppress me personally.

00:16:02.000 That's where this is going.

00:16:04.000 And what was their basis?

00:16:06.000 Like when they said, did they have a very specific thing that they were accusing you of where they wanted you to remove from Twitter?

00:16:14.000 It's not clear from the documents that they had anything specific.

00:16:17.000 They, I mean, the term they use is misinformation.

00:16:20.000 So vaccine misinformation.

00:16:21.000 And in fact, they specifically said, again, this is according to these Twitter employees who are talking about this meeting, that I was influencing persuadable people.

00:16:31.000 So you got to remember.

00:16:34.000 You've got to remember what the landscape was last year.

00:16:38.000 The beginning of the year, January through June, it was, hey, we're going to vaccinate a lot of people.

00:16:44.000 This is going to go away. 0.99

00:16:45.000 And yeah, there's people like Berenson who are out there talking about this VAERS data and they're talking about side effects and they're a pain in our ass. 0.98

00:16:52.000 But ultimately, all those mouth-breathing anti-vaxxers, they're going to see their buddies die and they're going to see how well this thing works. 0.97

00:17:01.000 And we're going to get 90 or 95% of the country vaccinated.

00:17:04.000 Okay, we're going to win.

00:17:06.000 And so there was pressure from the White House, but they felt they were in a really good position.

00:17:13.000 A lot of people have been vaccinated, and it did look like the vaccines worked for a period of time in the spring.

00:17:21.000 I don't know if you remember, but cases, especially in Israel, Israel was always the leader on this. 0.95

00:17:26.000 Cases in Israel went down almost to zero.

00:17:28.000 They'd been in the thousands.

00:17:31.000 And then they went to zero.

00:17:32.000 Deaths had been, you know, close to 100 a day in Israel.

00:17:35.000 They went to zero.

00:17:36.000 Okay.

00:17:38.000 That was the spring.

00:17:39.000 That was April.

00:17:40.000 They were upset about me and people like me.

00:17:44.000 You know, disinformation, misinformation, to me, it's journalism, okay?

00:17:50.000 If I'm pointing to you to government statistics and data, and I'm saying, here's questions, and I'm saying, here's some questions about the clinical trial and how long it went and who was included in it and whether or not it actually shows the vaccines work as well as you've been told,

00:18:06.000 that's journalism.

00:18:07.000 One man's reporter is another, you know, is another man's disinformation specialist, okay?

00:18:13.000 Just like one man's terrorist, another man's freedom fighter.

00:18:18.000 That was April, May.

00:18:20.000 Then something happened in June and July and August.

00:18:24.000 The worst case scenario from the point of view of these people.

00:18:28.000 What happened was cases started to go back up in Israel, in the UK, and then in the US. And they had known if they had any sense that the vaccines weren't going to be permanently protected.

00:18:39.000 But I guarantee you they did not think that that was going to happen in a matter of months.

00:18:45.000 And that set them up to do two things.

00:18:48.000 First of all, they were going to start to push for boosters, okay?

00:18:51.000 Now maybe if all you watch is MSNBC, you could get convinced that boosters were, you know, that was always a part of the plan.

00:19:00.000 Almost nobody who got a vaccine in, let's say, February or March or April thought that they were going to need another one by the end of the summer or the fall.

00:19:08.000 So they knew that they were changing the narrative.

00:19:12.000 Second, mandates.

00:19:15.000 And this was really the worst part, Joe.

00:19:18.000 This was, we are going to tie this to your job.

00:19:23.000 We're going to basically force almost every American adult of working age to get one of these who isn't self-employed or who isn't an illegal immigrant. 0.98

00:19:32.000 Like, they don't have to get it.

00:19:33.000 But most Americans who work are going to need this for their jobs.

00:19:37.000 And every healthcare worker and every government employee, I mean, they pushed a lot of people last fall.

00:19:45.000 And the anger they stirred was intense.

00:19:49.000 And, you know, still intense.

00:19:52.000 At that point, I was a problem for them.

00:19:56.000 I'd been a problem in the spring, but I was a problem in the summer.

00:20:00.000 Because it was starting to look like I was right, and it was starting to look like this wasn't going to be something you could just...

00:20:09.000 I don't know if you remember the shot in a beer, the lotteries. 0.57

00:20:12.000 There was all this sort of quasi-coercive crap going on in the spring.

00:20:16.000 By the summer of 2021, it was different. 0.76

00:20:18.000 It was...

00:20:19.000 You want to fly?

00:20:20.000 Maybe we're going to make you get vaccinated.

00:20:22.000 They never did that, but they talked about it.

00:20:23.000 And in Canada, they actually did do it.

00:20:25.000 You want to work?

00:20:26.000 You're damn well going to need to be vaccinated.

00:20:28.000 You want to go to a restaurant? 0.94

00:20:30.000 You want to go to a movie in New York City?

00:20:32.000 You're going to need to be vaccinated.

00:20:33.000 You want your kids to go to school?

00:20:35.000 Guess what?

00:20:36.000 We're going to make you get them vaccinated. 0.67

00:20:38.000 That was talked about, too.

00:20:39.000 They don't even want to pretend they said that.

00:20:41.000 But everybody from Gavin Newsom on down said that.

00:20:44.000 So I was a problem for them.

00:20:48.000 And Twitter cracked.

00:20:50.000 Twitter had defended me.

00:20:52.000 And they clearly internally, at least into April, did not think I was saying anything wrong.

00:20:58.000 And I can tell you, I did not change my reporting standards.

00:21:02.000 I did not ever say anything.

00:21:04.000 I did not talk about...

00:21:08.000 I always stuck to the data.

00:21:10.000 Twitter cracked.

00:21:11.000 They banned me.

00:21:12.000 And now we know that the White House was leaning on them.

00:21:16.000 So where do you go from here?

00:21:19.000 Well, I'm back on.

00:21:21.000 You're back on.

00:21:22.000 And now I should point out that the things that you got in trouble for are now...

00:21:28.000 YouTube has amended their policy.

00:21:30.000 They sure did.

00:21:30.000 So now YouTube is allowing you to say that masks don't stop the spread.

00:21:35.000 They don't protect you.

00:21:36.000 They're also allowing you to say that the vaccines do not stop you from catching COVID or from spreading COVID. Yep.

00:21:44.000 Because that's true.

00:21:45.000 Because that's true.

00:21:46.000 And this is something that you said a year ago.

00:21:48.000 A year ago.

00:21:49.000 But unfortunately, now we're at a whole different set of questions, unfortunately.

00:21:53.000 So where do I go?

00:21:54.000 Where do I go on Twitter and the Biden administration?

00:21:58.000 Well, I'm going to keep pushing.

00:22:02.000 I mean, I'm going to sue.

00:22:04.000 I have my lawyer, James Lawrence, who I really like, who You know, who handled my lawsuit against Twitter.

00:22:12.000 And we're going to be putting together a case against, again, the Biden administration.

00:22:16.000 The only question, you know, you got to do it.

00:22:18.000 You got to make sure it's right.

00:22:19.000 You got to make sure it's nailed down.

00:22:20.000 You know, which documents do we include?

00:22:24.000 What are our legal arguments?

00:22:25.000 We have people, very smart lawyers who want to be involved in this and help.

00:22:29.000 You know, do we sue in New York?

00:22:31.000 Do we sue in D.C.? A lot of different questions.

00:22:33.000 But that's going to happen.

00:22:36.000 And then, so that's A. But the other question, unfortunately, we're done talking about whether the vaccines help stop infection or transmission.

00:22:47.000 We know the answer to that.

00:22:48.000 They don't.

00:22:49.000 There's two big questions now.

00:22:51.000 One is, do the vaccines actually increase your risk of getting Omicron?

00:22:56.000 And do they increase or decrease your risk of serious illness if you do?

00:23:00.000 And in some ways, because Omicron's pretty mild, and because we've all gotten it at least once, maybe twice, Assuming nothing terrible happens to the virus itself going forward, in other words, assuming the virus doesn't somehow mutate again to become more virulent,

00:23:16.000 it's going to be what we thought it was going to be two years ago, which is ultimately winds up as a cold for everybody.

00:23:23.000 It's just another...

00:23:28.000 We're good to go.

00:23:50.000 I'm hopeful basically that we will get to a point where whether or not the vaccines do any good, the virus itself is essentially, you know, not a big threat.

00:24:00.000 Not that it doesn't kill some people, but that it's not a big threat societally.

00:24:03.000 Okay.

00:24:04.000 But there's a bigger, even bigger issue that no one will talk about right now.

00:24:09.000 And that is what is happening to all-cause mortality and to birth rates in countries that use these mRNA and DNA COVID vaccines very heavily.

00:24:19.000 So essentially Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, Australia, the United States, Canada, there is this notable increase in death rates in a lot of countries.

00:24:33.000 And in the last couple months, although the data is less clear, there's been a notable decrease in birth rates in some of them.

00:24:40.000 Now, I don't want to overstate this.

00:24:42.000 I'm not talking about, like, deaths are doubling or tripling or births have gone to zero.

00:24:46.000 When I say notable increase, I mean it looks to me, and I actually just wrote a substack on this that I posted Thursday morning, all-cause deaths might be up 10%.

00:24:59.000 And when I say all-cause, that's literally what it sounds like.

00:25:03.000 It's like, how many people died in Germany this week?

00:25:06.000 How many people died in the UK this week?

00:25:10.000 And other countries are better at collecting this data than we are.

00:25:13.000 They collect it more rapidly.

00:25:14.000 They publish it more rapidly.

00:25:15.000 And then, you know, some people are still dying of COVID, a few.

00:25:19.000 So how many, when you X out those deaths, you just say, if nobody died of COVID, would all cause deaths still be above normal?

00:25:27.000 And the answer is yes.

00:25:28.000 They'd be about 10% above normal.

00:25:30.000 Now, I don't know whether 10% sounds like a lot or a little to you.

00:25:35.000 Sounds like a lot.

00:25:37.000 It's enough that for COVID, COVID caused a 10% increase.

00:25:40.000 We shut down the world for that increase.

00:25:44.000 And 10% in the U.S., really.

00:25:46.000 Less worldwide.

00:25:47.000 With births, the data's a little more kind of all over the map, but what's so striking is birth rates in some of these countries started dropping almost exactly nine months to the day after they started mass vaccinating women of childbearing age.

00:26:03.000 Now, we know the vaccines can cause some menstrual irregularities and it looks like they can cause a drop in sperm count.

00:26:09.000 It's not clear whether that's temporary or not.

00:26:14.000 It's possible that this is just sort of a temporary thing and births will come back to normal.

00:26:20.000 Let's hope.

00:26:21.000 But that's where I'm going.

00:26:23.000 On the data, that's what I'm pursuing.

00:26:25.000 I'm pursuing...

00:26:28.000 Is this happening?

00:26:29.000 It appears to be happening.

00:26:30.000 Next question, why is it happening?

00:26:32.000 And you can come up with plenty of explanations that don't involve the vaccines.

00:26:37.000 For example, you could say, well, I think deaths are increasing because during the lockdown, people didn't go to the doctor.

00:26:44.000 They didn't get medical care.

00:26:48.000 Maybe they didn't get exercise.

00:26:49.000 They put on 20 pounds.

00:26:51.000 That's increased their risk of a heart attack.

00:26:53.000 And so now we're just seeing this downstream effect.

00:26:56.000 You could say, well, I think deaths in people who are 30 are increasing because those folks, you know, they were forced to be home.

00:27:03.000 Now they're making up for it by partying a lot more.

00:27:06.000 They're doing drugs or they're drinking and driving.

00:27:10.000 And so those kinds of deaths are increasing.

00:27:13.000 So there are stories you can tell that don't involve the vaccines to explain this.

00:27:19.000 But my argument is...

00:27:20.000 We need to be talking about this, and the same people who were screaming about deaths during COVID need to be acknowledging this and looking into the reasons why.

00:27:33.000 What do you make of these bizarre stories that you see that get published that are starting to blame an increase in heart attacks on climate change?

00:27:44.000 Yeah, it's a joke.

00:27:45.000 It's strange.

00:27:47.000 It's strange because journalists are publishing these things in legitimate places.

00:27:52.000 Like ABC had one the other day that was widely mocked.

00:27:58.000 Because it's so crazy for them to say that.

00:28:00.000 Yes.

00:28:01.000 It's bizarre.

00:28:02.000 Like, how much climate change are we talking about?

00:28:05.000 Shouldn't the sky be on fire? 0.99

00:28:08.000 I mean, what the fuck are you talking about? 0.99

00:28:09.000 Well, I will say this. 0.99

00:28:10.000 It is true that when you have these extreme heat waves, especially in Europe where they don't have air conditioning, some old folks are just going to die, basically.

00:28:19.000 You know, they're going to be in their apartments and they're just not going to be able to get out of bed and they're going to die.

00:28:24.000 But that's not what you're talking about.

00:28:26.000 You're talking about these stories where it's like some 30-year-old had a heart attack.

00:28:29.000 No, it's absurd.

00:28:31.000 It's absurd.

00:28:32.000 It is absurd, but are they being influenced?

00:28:36.000 Why is someone publishing a story like that?

00:28:39.000 What is going on?

00:28:42.000 What are the processes in place that would allow someone to publish a story that's that ludicrous?

00:28:50.000 This is a good thing about talking news.

00:28:53.000 You pull me back, because I can get lost in the weeds in the details of this is what the deaths in Germany were last week.

00:29:02.000 You get me, or you think sort of more holistically.

00:29:06.000 So here's what we've learned in the last couple of years.

00:29:11.000 We've learned that the media, broadly, the elite media as I generally call it, but you know, it's the New York Times and it's CNN. Corporations.

00:29:20.000 Corporations.

00:29:21.000 But it's more than corporations.

00:29:23.000 It's a group of people Who all live in Brooklyn and DC, who tend to be politically liberal, who all went to the same schools.

00:29:33.000 By the way, one reason they hate me is because I went to one of those schools, right?

00:29:36.000 So I'm a traitor.

00:29:37.000 And you were for the New York Times.

00:29:38.000 And I worked for the New York Times.

00:29:39.000 So I'm a class traitor, okay?

00:29:42.000 They have engaged in the last several years in a coordinated effort to sort of present stories in a way that I don't think ever really happened before 2016, before Donald Trump was elected.

00:29:56.000 So these people, when Trump beat Hillary, it was a shock to the system.

00:30:02.000 They couldn't believe that America had betrayed them this way.

00:30:06.000 And there's a famous Onion headline from 2015. The Onion is always the best.

00:30:11.000 And the headline was something like, Hillary Clinton tells America, don't fuck this up for me. 0.96

00:30:16.000 And there was a sort of idea there was going to be this baton death march where it was going to end with our first female president. 0.99

00:30:23.000 God help it.

00:30:23.000 It didn't matter that no one on earth liked her.

00:30:26.000 She was going to be the president.

00:30:28.000 And it didn't work out that way. 1.00

00:30:30.000 And these people decided, if this country is stupid enough to elect Donald Trump, we can't trust it. 0.99

00:30:36.000 And we better work together to make sure nothing like this ever happens again. 1.00

00:30:40.000 So you saw really coordinated stories about how Russia had elected Trump, which turned out to be complete nonsense.

00:30:49.000 And then, you know, Mueller was going to take Trump down.

00:30:52.000 And they...

00:30:55.000 I don't know whether they had actual meetings over that stuff, but when COVID came along in 2020, they did have actual meetings.

00:31:03.000 There was something called the Trusted News Initiative, okay?

00:31:06.000 The Trusted News Initiative was a group of organizations, which I think at the time actually didn't initially include Twitter, which is sort of interesting.

00:31:14.000 It included Facebook and the Washington Post and the BBC and Reuters and a lot of other news organizations.

00:31:21.000 And it was, we're going to combat misinformation together.

00:31:25.000 This was a mistake.

00:31:28.000 News organizations should not be working with one another to set the agenda.

00:31:33.000 They're better when they're independent, chasing their own stuff.

00:31:38.000 And this is now happening with climate change.

00:31:42.000 It's clear.

00:31:43.000 The same people...

00:31:45.000 Who, you know, who were wrong about Donald Trump and Russian collusion, who were wrong about lockdowns and COVID and the effect of school closures, and I would say wrong completely about vaccines.

00:31:58.000 Now we can talk about where we actually stand right now, but fine.

00:32:01.000 They think that climate change is an existential threat.

00:32:05.000 They have convinced each other that climate change is an existential threat.

00:32:10.000 And, oh, by the way, they also think that, you know, like, letting hundreds of thousands of people out of jail would have no effect on crime rates, which turns out not to be so true either.

00:32:20.000 But, so they are going to present the same stories over and over again.

00:32:27.000 They're going to find, you know, they're dying for a good hurricane.

00:32:30.000 They would love a good hurricane to hit New Orleans or Miami, but they haven't been able to get one in 20 years.

00:32:35.000 So they're stuck writing about, you know, flash floods in St. Louis or whatever.

00:32:38.000 They're going to look for any extreme weather event they can, and they're going to talk about how it's all climate change related and the, you know, sort of the...

00:32:49.000 The ultimate example of this is trying to blame some random heart attack on climate change.

00:32:54.000 It's nonsense.

00:32:55.000 You know, pretty soon they're going to be blaming fentanyl overdoses on climate change.

00:32:59.000 They just...

00:33:00.000 And it is.

00:33:01.000 You're right.

00:33:02.000 Like, this didn't happen until the last few years because they didn't do this.

00:33:07.000 They didn't work together this way.

00:33:09.000 Can this ship be turned back around at this point?

00:33:13.000 I don't know.

00:33:14.000 I mean...

00:33:16.000 There's people like you, there's people on Substack, but it's...

00:33:20.000 Yeah, but I'm not a good example of this.

00:33:24.000 I'm not chasing stories and that's not what I do.

00:33:28.000 I'm just talking to people.

00:33:30.000 So the fact that I can get something that's widely spread and I can have this podcast and have conversations with people like you and some other controversial folks that have been telling the truth and have been suppressed, it's great.

00:33:46.000 But, you know, clearly I'm not a journalist.

00:33:48.000 Right.

00:33:48.000 And you do need, like, these, you know, when you have war reporters in Ukraine, okay, or you have reporters willing to spend a month chasing a story, really doing high-end news work is expensive and difficult and it requires editors and requires trained,

00:34:05.000 you know, there's a skill to it, a legit skill to it.

00:34:09.000 And there's only so many organizations that can do it.

00:34:12.000 And how we break them out of their monoculture, I don't know.

00:34:19.000 One of the sad things about this is that there are many stories you could write, for example, about the vaccines that wouldn't necessarily be like, all the vaccines are terrible and they're going to kill you all.

00:34:34.000 You could have written about, you know, like...

00:34:39.000 We're good to go.

00:34:55.000 We're good to go.

00:35:18.000 You can't even bring up whether or not the vaccine related injuries are real.

00:35:25.000 That's right.

00:35:26.000 They won't even discuss it.

00:35:28.000 That's right.

00:35:28.000 You don't hear legitimate stories about the numbers of people that have suffered strokes and blood clots and all the various ailments and people that have pacemakers now, they're in their 30s.

00:35:39.000 That's right.

00:35:40.000 Let me give you, to me, what is a really good example of that.

00:35:45.000 Diabetes, type 1 and type 2. Type 1 diabetes used to be called childhood diabetes and type 2 was adult.

00:35:52.000 And the reason it was called childhood was it's an autoimmune disease essentially, right?

00:35:56.000 So type 2 diabetes you just eat and eat and eat and you overwhelm your pancreas and your insulin.

00:36:03.000 You basically eat so much you destroy your ability to process all that food.

00:36:06.000 But type 1 is different.

00:36:08.000 Type 1 is your pancreas, you stop making enough insulin as a kid.

00:36:13.000 It's an autoimmune disease.

00:36:15.000 So there are legitimate cases in peer-reviewed journals Of people getting type 1 diabetes as adults following mRNA vaccination.

00:36:29.000 Now, to me, that's a giant red flag.

00:36:32.000 What are these numbers?

00:36:33.000 They're not a lot of cases.

00:36:35.000 It's like four cases in Japan, two cases in Turkey.

00:36:39.000 It's what you would call in epidemiology or medicine a signal event.

00:36:45.000 It's a signal that should be followed up on.

00:36:48.000 By the way, you never see these case reports coming out of the U.S. because U.S. doctors are I think they've decided it's not in their career interest to write too much about vaccine side effects.

00:37:00.000 So to me, okay, that doesn't mean that a million people are going to get type 1 diabetes following the mRNA vaccinations.

00:37:07.000 What it means is these are really biologically active compounds that we've given to a lot of people, and we owe it to them to figure out what some of these dangers might be.

00:37:20.000 And we are not doing that.

00:37:24.000 Do you think that maybe with time, as more of these instances arise and more people come forward about their injuries and all the ailments that they've acquired since being vaccinated, that this will somehow or another bring people back to where they were before,

00:37:44.000 where they're very skeptical about pharmaceutical companies and what they do with their studies and how they disseminate that information?

00:37:52.000 I don't know.

00:37:53.000 I mean, I think it goes back to the question you asked before, which is how do we get the news media to take this more seriously?

00:38:00.000 Well, they're captured, right?

00:38:01.000 There's a lot of issues.

00:38:03.000 One of the big ones is the amount of money that gets pumped into advertising.

00:38:07.000 We brought it up on the podcast before, but it bears repeating.

00:38:10.000 75% of all television advertising is pharmaceutical companies.

00:38:14.000 Is it that big?

00:38:15.000 Yes.

00:38:15.000 It's a big number, I know.

00:38:16.000 75%. 0.99

00:38:17.000 And they think that in news, it's higher, which is fucking bonkers. 0.52

00:38:24.000 I mean, you've seen the clip, brought to you by Pfizer. 0.97

00:38:26.000 Anderson Cooper, brought to you by Pfizer.

00:38:29.000 You can't say something that's going to destroy the profits of those companies when the profits are literally what's funding your organization.

00:38:38.000 So, again, maybe it's because I was on the inside.

00:38:41.000 I do see it more as this cultural issue.

00:38:44.000 I think it's both.

00:38:45.000 I think it's both.

00:38:46.000 I think the cultural issue with the Donald Trump thing, as you brought it up before, I think that emboldens people and it makes them justified in their actions, that the overall good is more valuable than being completely square with all the data.

00:39:04.000 Yes.

00:39:04.000 Yeah, right?

00:39:05.000 Like, we're gonna cut some corners here, but it's because we want you to get this vaccine.

00:39:08.000 It's good for you.

00:39:09.000 Right, because it's gonna save people.

00:39:10.000 That's right.

00:39:10.000 Well, you know, I mean, Rachel Maddow famously said, the virus stops with you.

00:39:15.000 You get vaccinated, that's it.

00:39:16.000 The virus can't spread, you can't catch it.

00:39:19.000 It's not true.

00:39:20.000 There's going to be a lot of rewriting history in the next few months, Joe.

00:39:22.000 But they're already doing it.

00:39:24.000 I mean, there was a smash cut of Fauci.

00:39:27.000 Did you see that?

00:39:28.000 Yes, I did.

00:39:29.000 What he actually had.

00:39:30.000 See if you can find that, Jamie.

00:39:31.000 What he actually claimed he said versus what he actually said.

00:39:35.000 Yes.

00:39:35.000 You know, that he said he never said shut anything down.

00:39:38.000 But he's 81 or whatever he is.

00:39:41.000 Are we giving him a pass because he's 81? 0.98

00:39:43.000 No, but I'm saying maybe his memory sucks. 0.97

00:39:46.000 No, his memory's fine. 0.99

00:39:47.000 I think it's pretty good.

00:39:48.000 I'm giving him a pass.

00:39:49.000 Somebody referred to it as the Shaggy clip.

00:39:54.000 It wasn't me.

00:39:55.000 Shaggy?

00:39:55.000 Yeah, you know that video?

00:39:56.000 No.

00:39:57.000 Yo, you remember that song.

00:39:59.000 It wasn't me.

00:40:01.000 He gets caught by his girlfriend.

00:40:04.000 He even caught me in the shower.

00:40:06.000 It wasn't me.

00:40:07.000 That's Fauci.

00:40:08.000 It wasn't me.

00:40:09.000 Well, I think these guys operated in a day before the internet, and they became accustomed to these sort of patterns of just, like, repeating a narrative over and over again, and then this is the official story, and that's what they did during the HIV crisis, that's what they're doing now.

00:40:25.000 It's the same thing, but now people will go back and pull up clips and make these little edits.

00:40:31.000 Yes.

00:40:32.000 Here's why it's not going to work, though.

00:40:34.000 Here's why.

00:40:35.000 So...

00:40:38.000 And I'm going to give you this right now, and I'm giving it to you for a reason.

00:40:43.000 This is a whiskey, and it's a distillery near where I live in the Hudson Valley of New York.

00:40:50.000 But the reason I'm picking it specifically isn't just that it's delicious whiskey.

00:40:54.000 The guy who runs the place emailed me a few months ago.

00:40:58.000 He said, I'm on your side.

00:41:00.000 I know it's been a long, you know, 18 months.

00:41:04.000 Can I send you some whiskey?

00:41:06.000 I said, please do.

00:41:07.000 I said, send me the strongest stuff you got.

00:41:09.000 And so he sent me a couple bottles.

00:41:13.000 But that guy, he hasn't forgotten that they tried to make him get vaccinated.

00:41:21.000 I haven't forgotten.

00:41:23.000 You haven't forgotten.

00:41:25.000 There's a lot of pissed off people out there.

00:41:27.000 Let's play this.

00:41:32.000 Do you regret, particularly the last one, the shutdown, the sweeping shutdown that some said made things worse?

00:41:40.000 No, I don't, Neil.

00:41:42.000 And in fact, I think we need to make sure that your listeners understand I didn't shut down anything.

00:41:49.000 I recommended to the president that we shut the country down.

00:41:54.000 And the only way to do that is by draconian means of essentially shutting down a country.

00:42:00.000 We know that we can do that if we shut down.

00:42:04.000 Well, I think one of the things you really need to do, to the extent that you can shut down temporarily, the country I think is important.

00:42:15.000 Well, if I knew at the time that shutting down would have such a dramatic effect, On controlling the spread, obviously, we would have shut down earlier.

00:42:28.000 There were those who say, you shut down destructive things by disrupting the economy.

00:42:33.000 And others say, well, if you save so many infections by shutting down, why didn't you shut down two weeks earlier?

00:42:40.000 But I don't regret saying that the only way we could have really stopped the explosion of infection was by essentially, I want to say shutting down, I mean essentially having the physical separation and the kinds of recommendations that we've made.

00:42:57.000 You've been a big fan of Cuomo and the shutdown in New York.

00:43:00.000 You've lauded New York for their policy.

00:43:02.000 New York had the highest death rate in the world.

00:43:04.000 How could we possibly be jumping up and down and saying, oh, Governor Cuomo did a great job.

00:43:08.000 He had the worst death rate in the world.

00:43:10.000 No, you misconstrued that, Senator.

00:43:15.000 Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

00:43:19.000 Yeah.

00:43:20.000 Why is he leaving?

00:43:21.000 Do you think he's in trouble?

00:43:22.000 Do you think he realizes that the tide has turned?

00:43:25.000 I think he doesn't want to have to sit for subpoenas.

00:43:29.000 He would only have to do that if he stayed?

00:43:33.000 Well, he doesn't have to do it this year because the Democrats are protecting him.

00:43:36.000 The Democrats control Congress.

00:43:38.000 If the Republicans win, and I think...

00:43:42.000 People still think they'll definitely take the House and possibly the Senate, although that's not as assured as it was a few months ago.

00:43:49.000 But if the Democrats win, they will definitely be targeting him.

00:43:52.000 I'm sorry, if the Republicans win.

00:43:55.000 And, you know, he's such a megalomaniac.

00:43:59.000 He is trying to stay as long as he possibly can.

00:44:01.000 So, you know, a couple years ago he said, oh, maybe I'll stay until the end of the Biden administration.

00:44:06.000 Now he's saying I'm going to stay until December.

00:44:08.000 So he's got to, you know, he wants to stay until three minutes before the Republicans take the House.

00:44:13.000 Will that save him?

00:44:15.000 I think it makes it, and this is, like, I'm not an expert on what, I don't think they can subpoena him or the process is much more complicated if he's not a federal employee.

00:44:26.000 They have to negotiate and get him to testify.

00:44:32.000 Remember, there's three separate issues for Fauci, right?

00:44:35.000 Gain-of-function research.

00:44:36.000 Gain-of-function research, which he's definitely on the hook about.

00:44:38.000 On the hook.

00:44:39.000 Yeah, that one's the clearest.

00:44:42.000 This came out of a Chinese lab. 1.00

00:44:46.000 I'm not even sure too many people even argue that anymore.

00:44:49.000 There's still articles.

00:44:50.000 There's still articles, and they're preposterous.

00:44:52.000 They're preposterous.

00:44:53.000 There's no animal host.

00:44:57.000 That's right.

00:44:57.000 They have this mapping data that claims, oh, because most of the cases the Chinese reported first were in the vicinity of the market.

00:45:05.000 It must have been the market.

00:45:06.000 Which is also the vicinity of the Wuhan lab.

00:45:08.000 And by the way, the Chinese knew exactly what they were doing when they were collecting that data.

00:45:12.000 So it's totally compromised data.

00:45:13.000 You can't trust it at all.

00:45:14.000 Well, we've never trusted their data in the past.

00:45:17.000 No.

00:45:17.000 Which is so bizarre.

00:45:19.000 So there's gain of function, right?

00:45:20.000 Right.

00:45:21.000 There's the lockdowns and, you know, his pushing.

00:45:25.000 Now, he's probably got actually the best defense on that one, right?

00:45:27.000 Because that's about, you know, we didn't know exactly what was happening and I didn't make the decision.

00:45:34.000 I just made my best recommendation.

00:45:35.000 It was these governors who did it and we all agreed.

00:45:39.000 It's okay.

00:45:39.000 But nonetheless, he could get some heat for that.

00:45:42.000 And then the third issue is the vaccines, right?

00:45:44.000 And that one's interesting because NIH, National Institutes of Health, they were basically a direct partner with Moderna.

00:45:52.000 Not on the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, but there are two mRNA vaccines.

00:45:58.000 And, you know, the federal government, you know, was basically more than a handshake partner, a partner of Moderna on that vaccine.

00:46:06.000 And so there's going to, assuming we ever start asking real questions about what the data shows about the vaccine, he might be on the hook for that too.

00:46:16.000 How much of an impediment is this agreement that they had where they're not allowed to be held liable?

00:46:22.000 It's a huge impediment.

00:46:23.000 So, it's a huge impediment for a few reasons.

00:46:26.000 Now, as my lawsuit with Twitter shows, If you sue, the civil litigation process is very powerful.

00:46:34.000 It's not as powerful as a subpoena from a prosecutor.

00:46:37.000 It's still very powerful.

00:46:39.000 You get these companies to hand over documents so you can see what they were thinking.

00:46:43.000 And for the most part, it's actually kind of hard to believe, but the companies do comply with this.

00:46:48.000 They will, whether it's because their lawyers make them or whether it's because they don't really know what they're giving you or whether it's Because they actually believe in, you know, the American justice system.

00:46:57.000 That's probably the least likely.

00:47:00.000 They give you the documents so you can actually see them.

00:47:04.000 No litigation or immunity means no liability means there's no...

00:47:11.000 A, there's no way to get the documents and B, the really good trial lawyers aren't interested because there's no money for them.

00:47:16.000 It also means Wall Street doesn't care because Wall Street...

00:47:20.000 From their point of view, if there's no liability issue, it's not going to hurt the company's stock.

00:47:25.000 So they don't care either.

00:47:27.000 So two very powerful forces that could help kind of keep the companies on a straight path are gone.

00:47:34.000 It was so strange to me to watch people blindly believe the pharmaceutical companies given their history.

00:47:41.000 Given the history that they have of being fined insane amounts, causing tens of thousands of deaths that could have been prevented, causing the opioid crisis.

00:47:52.000 All the things that we know that they lied about, hid data, distorted data.

00:48:00.000 And yet still people were getting Pfizer tattoos.

00:48:03.000 Yeah.

00:48:04.000 It was a strange thing to watch, this sort of...

00:48:08.000 What does Robert Malone call it?

00:48:10.000 Mass formation psychosis?

00:48:12.000 And people are like, that's not a thing.

00:48:14.000 But what about...

00:48:14.000 Forget what he called it.

00:48:16.000 That thing is clearly real and happening.

00:48:20.000 We saw people that just put all of their...

00:48:25.000 All of their suspicions, all of their misgivings aside from the past, and now blindly trust the same organizations that they had widely disparaged just a few months before that.

00:48:38.000 Yes.

00:48:39.000 Yeah, look, I mean, you can call lots of things.

00:48:43.000 Look, I play poker, okay?

00:48:45.000 And I think of myself as a pretty good poker player.

00:48:47.000 But a few days ago, I was at the casino.

00:48:51.000 It's about an hour from our house.

00:48:53.000 And I was not having a good night.

00:48:56.000 And I was in a hand.

00:49:00.000 And somebody made a bet.

00:49:01.000 And I was like, I am so beaten here.

00:49:03.000 Like, I'm just beaten.

00:49:05.000 And I called.

00:49:06.000 And then that was the turn card, the fourth card.

00:49:09.000 The river card came.

00:49:10.000 The guy made another big bet.

00:49:11.000 And I called again.

00:49:12.000 Okay?

00:49:15.000 I was destroyed, okay?

00:49:18.000 People make bad decisions.

00:49:19.000 They double down.

00:49:21.000 They fall in love with a hand or with a product, and they can't rethink it.

00:49:27.000 And, you know, Tucker would say it's a lack of faith, right?

00:49:30.000 It's the crisis of we don't believe in God anymore.

00:49:34.000 We're all terribly scared of our own mortality.

00:49:36.000 We're looking for some product that will save us.

00:49:40.000 Yeah.

00:49:40.000 You know, I think that's part of it.

00:49:42.000 I don't know if that's all of it.

00:49:43.000 I think it's part of it.

00:49:45.000 Certainly, vaccines became an object of secular veneration on the left.

00:49:53.000 I'm going to give you my other present for you now.

00:49:55.000 This is Pandemia.

00:49:56.000 The book.

00:49:57.000 The book.

00:49:58.000 And there's an inscription for you in there.

00:50:02.000 So the second copy, anybody who wants in the office can have, but I will just read to you very quickly.

00:50:08.000 Here's Here's a couple of the things that people were saying about the vaccines.

00:50:17.000 This is Lindsey Graham.

00:50:21.000 Thank God for nurses who help people in need and know how to use a needle. 1.00

00:50:25.000 Thank God for those who produce these vaccines.

00:50:28.000 If enough of us take it, we will get back to normal lives.

00:50:32.000 Help is on the way.

00:50:33.000 And then here's a guy named Robbie Suave, I think that's how you pronounce his last name, who's a libertarian, okay?

00:50:39.000 Okay.

00:50:40.000 People who say, well, the vaccine doesn't actually prevent infection are wrong.

00:50:44.000 The vaccine almost certainly prevents infection.

00:50:47.000 It is akin to a cure.

00:50:49.000 If you got it, you don't have to wear a mask.

00:50:52.000 You will neither contract nor spread the disease.

00:50:55.000 They believed that, though.

00:50:57.000 They believed it, yes.

00:50:58.000 It's not like there was just a giant group of people that were lying.

00:51:02.000 They did believe it.

00:51:03.000 And then when they looked at the Israeli data, particularly the early data, they thought they were right. 0.99

00:51:07.000 So this would cause this all in the beginning.

00:51:10.000 And in the beginning, it did seem to offer protection.

00:51:12.000 It did seem to help people.

00:51:14.000 But what I'm saying is people were primed to believe.

00:51:17.000 One more.

00:51:18.000 This is from somebody on the left.

00:51:20.000 This is a woman named Molly Jongfast, who was like the voice of the terrified Brooklyn left throughout 2020. This is what these people thought of the vaccine.

00:51:34.000 Yes, the vaccine is coming, I told myself as I spent my first Thanksgiving without any of my 70-something parents in the hope of keeping them safe.

00:51:41.000 Yes, the vaccine is coming, I told myself as I look ahead to what will be an even lonelier Christmas.

00:51:47.000 Yes, the vaccine is coming, I tell my father who hasn't seen his grandchildren in months.

00:51:51.000 Yes, the vaccine is coming, I silently mouth as I look into my children's bedrooms as they stare into the blue lights of their computer screens, deprived of school, friends, family, and what used to be called normal life.

00:52:03.000 Now, that wasn't my 2020, okay?

00:52:05.000 And I suspect it wasn't yours either.

00:52:07.000 But for these people who had terrified themselves about COVID, who had told themselves that, you know, COVID really was the Black Plague, they needed to believe in something.

00:52:17.000 And they believed in the vaccines.

00:52:20.000 And let me tell you, even now, it is hard for them to accept the truth.

00:52:23.000 It is hard.

00:52:24.000 I mean, I have friends that were against my perspective initially, and they thought that I was being ignorant and foolish, that I was believing conspiracy theories, and now they're like, 0.96

00:52:40.000 fuck, how did I buy into it? 0.99

00:52:41.000 The same people, and some of them are vaccinated, and some of them have real problems now because of the vaccine. 1.00

00:52:47.000 And I know a lot of people that got vaccinated had zero issues.

00:52:49.000 None.

00:52:50.000 And I know a lot of people that got vaccinated that never got COVID. And they're okay.

00:52:54.000 They're fine.

00:52:55.000 And I think that's most people.

00:52:57.000 And if you looked at the overall positive net benefit of the vaccine, I think it saved lives.

00:53:06.000 I will give you the best bull case for the vaccines.

00:53:09.000 So last year, Delta.

00:53:11.000 Delta was clearly a worse variant than Omicron.

00:53:15.000 For a period of months, in the spring, probably into the summer of 2020, the vaccines probably reduced the infection rate substantially.

00:53:25.000 That's what they do for a period, you know, a few months.

00:53:28.000 They really do.

00:53:29.000 And then I think the booster in the fall probably helps some, not as much, because there's definitely...

00:53:37.000 Your first hit is your best hit.

00:53:39.000 There's definitely a limited sort of benefit from boosting.

00:53:44.000 But let's say that last year in 2021, there was a substantial decrease in the number of Delta infections.

00:53:52.000 Now, all those people wound up getting Omicron this year.

00:53:56.000 But Omicron is not as dangerous as Delta.

00:53:59.000 And we have Paxlovid now.

00:54:01.000 So even just by delaying a few months...

00:54:05.000 You can argue that the lives of some 70- and 80-year-olds were saved.

00:54:10.000 Some of those people who got infected this year and were fine might have gotten Delta last year and died.

00:54:18.000 Particularly older folks.

00:54:19.000 Particularly older folks.

00:54:20.000 And I think there's a legit case to be made about that.

00:54:23.000 I've actually been meaning to write a substack about that because I think it's important that people understand that.

00:54:28.000 But that doesn't mean that this benefited anybody under 50 or 60. And unfortunately, certainly with the myocarditis, which is this heart infection you can get that can actually be quite dangerous and in some cases deadly to younger people,

00:54:44.000 especially men, the risk is the other way.

00:54:46.000 The younger you are, the worse the risk seems to be.

00:54:49.000 So here's what we should have done.

00:54:51.000 First of all, we should have tested the vaccines for longer.

00:54:54.000 And we should have made sure that we tested them on old people who are the most at risk. 0.97

00:54:58.000 We didn't do either of those things.

00:55:00.000 But okay, they wanted to get this out very quickly in the winter of 2020, January 2021. Fine.

00:55:09.000 They should have said, okay, we think we have something good here, but because it's been tested for such a short period of time, And because the technology is so novel, we're going to limit its use to the people who are really at risk from COVID. We know who those people are.

00:55:30.000 You know, over 70, maybe if you're under 70 and you're really severe comorbidities, go get your vaccine, can't hurt you.

00:55:38.000 The rest of us, we're going to wait and we're going to see.

00:55:41.000 And probably if they had done that, they could have had whatever benefits they did have last year without any of the problems that seemed to be getting worse.

00:55:51.000 And again, this is why we have to talk about all-cause deaths, okay?

00:55:55.000 Because those numbers shouldn't be where they are right now.

00:56:01.000 Now, these people that were convinced early on that the vaccine was the savior, and that, you know, these people would have resisted that narrative, that you were going to vaccinate the older folks and the other people are going to wait.

00:56:15.000 Yes.

00:56:16.000 They didn't want to wait.

00:56:17.000 No, they were desperate to get vaccinated.

00:56:18.000 But there was also this narrative that kept being promoted, safe and effective.

00:56:23.000 Those were the two words that they used, you know.

00:56:27.000 And it was so prevalent.

00:56:29.000 It was everywhere.

00:56:30.000 And if you resisted that, somehow or another, you were an enemy of the future.

00:56:37.000 You're an anti-vaxxer!

00:56:39.000 Yeah, you're an anti-vaxxer, which is a...

00:56:41.000 That pejorative that they used over and over again, it's like...

00:56:46.000 It didn't matter if you had every other vaccine there was.

00:56:49.000 If you didn't believe in this one thing that you stated, and I think accurately so, that you should think of more of as a therapeutic, it's a gene therapy, correct?

00:56:59.000 We can argue about that.

00:57:00.000 But what I meant by therapeutic was it had a limited window of working.

00:57:06.000 It worked for three, four months.

00:57:07.000 Well, there were certainly people that were resisting the idea that it was a leaky vaccine, which was crazy, because there was already indications that people were...

00:57:15.000 And remember in the early days, it was breakthrough infections are very rare.

00:57:21.000 It was breakthrough infections.

00:57:23.000 These were these aberrations, these rare outlier cases, and they're not to be taken into consideration.

00:57:30.000 And now, all of a sudden, it's just the norm.

00:57:34.000 And they've changed the goalposts in this weird way where everybody just didn't want to admit that they were wrong.

00:57:41.000 Everybody didn't want to admit they got duped.

00:57:43.000 So they started saying it, too.

00:57:45.000 We've always known.

00:57:47.000 Yep.

00:57:47.000 Total life.

00:57:48.000 Total life.

00:57:49.000 And by the way, I will argue this, you know, and this gets complicated epidemiologically.

00:57:54.000 I don't think the vaccines work very well.

00:57:57.000 Once they stop working against infection, remember, they have this period when they do work against infection.

00:58:01.000 I think that once they stop working against infection, the protection they offer against serious disease and death is actually pretty limited, too.

00:58:08.000 And I think that's really true for Omicron.

00:58:10.000 But it gets complicated.

00:58:12.000 They didn't want to release the data on boosters for people 18 to 49 because they said it would increase vaccine hesitancy.

00:58:19.000 That's right. 0.95

00:58:20.000 What the fuck does that mean? 0.98

00:58:21.000 Yeah, if telling the truth indicates that you're going to have a problem with vaccine hesitancy, the problem is the vaccine, Joe. 0.99

00:58:27.000 Right.

00:58:27.000 The problem is never the truth.

00:58:29.000 That's right.

00:58:30.000 That's bonkers.

00:58:31.000 That's right.

00:58:32.000 It's a very bizarre time to be going through this because there was such a social push and so many people were upset.

00:58:42.000 And I've seen so many of those people come around now when they've had friends that have had strokes or they've had their own personal issues with it.

00:58:50.000 And then they've also got it and they got COVID. Yep.

00:58:53.000 I had a very good friend of mine who was all about the vaccine, and then he got COVID recently, and I'm the first fucking person he called. 0.93

00:59:01.000 And I sent a nurse to him, and I had him taken care of. 0.91

00:59:04.000 We got him monoclonal antibodies.

00:59:05.000 That was another thing that was very bizarre, was the not just limited distribution, but preventing people from getting monoclonal antibodies.

00:59:14.000 Yeah, well, the Biden administration was playing a game with Ron DeSantis.

00:59:18.000 They, you know, they were trying to get, you know, DeSantis has been the smartest politician about all of this from the beginning.

00:59:23.000 And he knew that the antibodies were a good idea.

00:59:26.000 And he tried to get a lot of them for, you know, people in Florida and the Biden administration tried to stand in his way.

00:59:31.000 Not a great moment for the Biden administration.

00:59:33.000 Well, they were also trying to limit the distribution of them, saying that it was based on the earlier strains.

00:59:39.000 Meanwhile, they were trying to increase the distribution of the vaccine, which was also based on the earlier strains.

00:59:45.000 Yes, absolutely correct. 0.99

00:59:48.000 It's just how the fuck did we get here? 0.95

00:59:51.000 It's so disconcerting and it just makes you distrust the very foundation of truth that we supposedly operate under. 0.97

01:00:03.000 So I wrote a substack a few days ago where I said we need a name for this phenomenon.

01:00:08.000 This phenomenon of I don't really – I used to be somebody – I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I used to think, hey, if the government says this is a safe drug or safe medicine, I'm going to take it if my doctor tells me to.

01:00:25.000 I believe in the system broadly.

01:00:28.000 I know it's not perfect, but I believe in it.

01:00:30.000 And a lot of people, including me, now don't believe in the system broadly.

01:00:37.000 And there needs to be a name for that.

01:00:39.000 The way I described it is, you're on the plane, the plane's taken off, and you suddenly realize that the guy, the cockpit, the captain, the voice you heard coming out of the cockpit, is the voice of somebody who you saw doing some shots.

01:00:55.000 The night before in the bar.

01:00:56.000 And it's like, oh man, maybe I'm not as safe as I thought I was.

01:01:01.000 Not that he's drunk right now, but maybe I'm not as safe as I thought I was.

01:01:03.000 It's that.

01:01:04.000 Yeah, it's that.

01:01:05.000 It's the knowledge that the system is run by humans.

01:01:10.000 Humans that have a very clear interest in pushing a very specific narrative and they pushed it early on and One of the things you'll find about people in the media that's really bizarre They have a complete total unwillingness to admit any incorrect information They won't admit that they've made mistakes.

01:01:30.000 They won't admit that they were incorrect They won't admit that they were misled or confused or just flat-out wrong Because if they do, it opens them up to liabilities.

01:01:40.000 It opens them up to not being trusted.

01:01:42.000 It opens them up to saying, well, if you're the expert and you were wrong, well, you're not an expert.

01:01:47.000 Don't we all have that?

01:01:48.000 Isn't that human nature to not want to admit you're wrong?

01:01:52.000 I mean, I'm guilty of it too.

01:01:53.000 I don't know, man.

01:01:54.000 I'm a big proponent of admitting you're wrong.

01:01:56.000 I think it's very important.

01:01:58.000 I think it doesn't mean that you're...

01:02:00.000 If you are wrong and you don't admit you're wrong, now you're wrong again.

01:02:05.000 Now you're wrong more.

01:02:07.000 And I know it.

01:02:09.000 If you are wrong and you admit you're wrong, I just know you're a human.

01:02:12.000 And if you say, I'm sorry, I thought this is what I thought, this is why I thought it, this turns out to not be correct.

01:02:20.000 This is one reason cancel culture is such...

01:02:21.000 Actually, you know, you did admit you were wrong back in January.

01:02:25.000 But you were big enough...

01:02:27.000 I mean, not just big enough, but like big enough and important enough culturally, they couldn't cancel you.

01:02:32.000 They were trying to cancel you.

01:02:34.000 And your apology meant nothing to them.

01:02:37.000 Well, it's not about whether or not someone's wrong or right.

01:02:40.000 It's about someone being inconvenient and someone being a problem.

01:02:44.000 And the fact that my platform is not controlled by any corporation.

01:02:49.000 So I can have a guy like Robert Malone on, who owns the patent for nine patents in the invention of MRNA technology. 0.97

01:02:59.000 I mean, he's a guy who fucking knows what he's talking about. 0.94

01:03:01.000 Oh yeah, he knows what he's talking about. 0.99

01:03:02.000 And they tried to make him out to be a kook. 0.91

01:03:03.000 I mean, this is a guy with a rock-solid reputation outside of that.

01:03:06.000 I mean...

01:03:07.000 But back to you, right?

01:03:09.000 Like, I don't remember the exact words that you used, but you admitted you'd made a mistake.

01:03:12.000 You'd used a word that, you know, was not a good word.

01:03:15.000 And unfortunately, it didn't satisfy the people criticizing you.

01:03:21.000 That's part of the problem, right?

01:03:22.000 Yeah, but you're always going to have people who hate you.

01:03:25.000 They're always going to be there.

01:03:27.000 And they're not going to want to forgive you.

01:03:29.000 That's just them.

01:03:30.000 That's on them.

01:03:31.000 Now, if I don't like someone but someone comes out and says they made a mistake, I admire that because I think that's an admirable human quality.

01:03:40.000 The ability to swallow your pride and also the ability to want to be forthcoming with truth.

01:03:47.000 And just say, this is where I am.

01:03:49.000 This is who I am.

01:03:51.000 This is what I did.

01:03:52.000 I shouldn't have done that.

01:03:53.000 And I recognize that.

01:03:54.000 And if I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry.

01:03:56.000 Or if I misled you, I'm sorry.

01:03:58.000 If I gave you information that made you act in a certain way or go and make a certain choice because you thought that I was informed and I was correct...

01:04:07.000 I feel like you have an obligation if your job is to distribute the truth.

01:04:13.000 That's what you're doing.

01:04:14.000 If you're a journalist, if that's what you're doing, if you're a pundit, if you're someone on television and you're speaking from a position where you supposedly have some sort of authority or at least some sort of reasonable research basis to say these things.

01:04:35.000 You should come out and say it.

01:04:36.000 I mean, look, I basically agree.

01:04:38.000 Look, you know, I just said a few minutes ago, I think there's a case to be made.

01:04:43.000 The vaccine saved lives last year.

01:04:44.000 I think there's a case to be made, too.

01:04:46.000 See, I'm not a black and white person.

01:04:48.000 I'm not a one or zero.

01:04:50.000 I'm not binary on these things.

01:04:51.000 I think it's a very messy situation.

01:04:53.000 And I think part of the problem is that we were so indoctrinated with this propaganda.

01:04:58.000 It was so shoved down everyone's throats that people were very reluctantly to abandon their earliest notions.

01:05:05.000 And a lot of their earliest notions were based in anger on people who weren't doing the right thing, who weren't spreading the right thing.

01:05:12.000 We're doing what they're told.

01:05:12.000 Yes.

01:05:13.000 We're doing what they're told.

01:05:15.000 But they thought that doing what they were told was doing the right thing.

01:05:18.000 And I think there's a lot of people that did it with noble intentions.

01:05:22.000 I really do believe that.

01:05:23.000 So here's what I would...

01:05:24.000 Now we're actually pull back again, right?

01:05:26.000 Here's what I would argue.

01:05:27.000 Even if the vaccines worked...

01:05:30.000 Even if they'd worked perfectly, the way that people like me were treated last year was wrong and are treated now.

01:05:37.000 Yes.

01:05:37.000 It's wrong, okay?

01:05:38.000 The fact they didn't work is just the icing on the cake.

01:05:41.000 Right.

01:05:42.000 But when Joe Biden says a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and if you're not vaccinated, you're going to be sick or dying, and you're going to fill our hospitals, it was...

01:05:51.000 It was demonizing a lot of people for a personal medical decision.

01:05:56.000 It's wrong.

01:05:57.000 Not allowing Novak Djokovic to play in the U.S. Open because he's not vaccinated.

01:06:03.000 It's wrong.

01:06:03.000 That's now.

01:06:04.000 That's now. 0.98

01:06:05.000 Right now they're doing that, which is fucking insane. 0.97

01:06:08.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:06:08.000 It's insane. 0.99

01:06:09.000 I mean, he's one of the healthiest human beings alive on Earth.

01:06:12.000 And he's had COVID twice.

01:06:13.000 Leave him alone.

01:06:14.000 Let him play tennis.

01:06:15.000 That's what's even crazier.

01:06:16.000 He has the antibodies.

01:06:18.000 His body's recovered.

01:06:19.000 Yeah.

01:06:19.000 And it wasn't a big deal for him either.

01:06:21.000 No! 1.00

01:06:21.000 Of course, because he's a fucking super athlete. 1.00

01:06:24.000 I mean, it's really crazy that we want everyone held to the same standards, but we're still not telling people to lose weight. 0.98

01:06:30.000 I mean, if the government cared about you, they would say, hey, you know, one of the things we found out 78% of the people who are admitted to the ICU with COVID are obese.

01:06:38.000 Yep.

01:06:39.000 And that's a giant problem with your immune system and we have to fix that collectively as a country.

01:06:43.000 Yeah.

01:06:44.000 And here's what we need to do.

01:06:45.000 We need to avoid all these things that, you know, are terrible for you and the things that people are addicted to.

01:06:51.000 Well, I mean, they're doing it with monkeypox, Joe.

01:06:55.000 They tried.

01:06:56.000 It's true. 0.99

01:06:57.000 The data came out and everybody's like, hey, hey, hey, hold the fuck on. 0.98

01:07:01.000 First of all, no one's dead. 0.97

01:07:03.000 No one. 1.00

01:07:04.000 Second of all, it's 98% unprotected gay sex. 1.00

01:07:08.000 That's right. 1.00

01:07:09.000 And the other 2% are liars. 0.97

01:07:11.000 That's a joke. 0.96

01:07:12.000 That's just a joke, folks.

01:07:14.000 I got it and maybe you can get it.

01:07:17.000 It's not a lot of people.

01:07:19.000 It's not a lot of people.

01:07:20.000 It's an unfortunate disease that people are getting for getting reckless.

01:07:25.000 And look, listen, it's a free country, okay?

01:07:29.000 Get reckless if you want to.

01:07:30.000 That's right.

01:07:30.000 But let's be honest with these folks about, you know, they're the ones at risk.

01:07:35.000 And, you know, by the way, this is what happened with HIV the first few years, too.

01:07:38.000 They wouldn't tell the truth about that.

01:07:39.000 And then eventually the gay community said, look, we're the ones who are dying here.

01:07:42.000 We have to be honest with each other, and we want the government to be honest, too. 0.78

01:07:46.000 And hopefully that will happen with monkeypox.

01:07:48.000 But the idea that the public health establishment, their first inclination is to lie...

01:07:54.000 And to not tell you who's really at risk, I don't understand.

01:07:58.000 Well, the conversation that I had with one of my friends who's a doctor, and it was a very quiet conversation, where he was like, I can't tell people what I really think about these things.

01:08:11.000 I cannot.

01:08:12.000 I can't say it.

01:08:13.000 I can't talk about the people that I've treated that have had real issues after being vaccinated.

01:08:18.000 I can't. 0.88

01:08:19.000 You know, I can tell you that I know a lot of people who got COVID who really got fucked up by it, really bad. 0.99

01:08:26.000 But I can't tell you that most of them were fat and old. 0.99

01:08:30.000 I can't say that.

01:08:31.000 I can't say you, a guy who works out six days a week, you're probably going to be okay. 0.98

01:08:36.000 You, a guy who regularly takes vitamins, has all sorts of things you do for your health, You are supposed to be treated the same way as that fat old guy, which is bonkers.

01:08:47.000 And one of the things that drove me nuts about when they were so mad at me about COVID, forget about the fact that CNN literally used a filter on my face to make me look jaundiced.

01:08:57.000 Is that true?

01:08:58.000 Oh yeah, 100%.

01:08:59.000 We've showed side-by-side clips of the original video that I posted on Instagram, which is just me standing in front of my sauna with my iPhone going, I feel pretty good.

01:09:11.000 And then they took that and put it through a filter that made me look yellow.

01:09:16.000 Have you seen it?

01:09:17.000 No.

01:09:18.000 See, pull it up, because it's so strange.

01:09:20.000 But all those people are gone now, which is hilarious.

01:09:23.000 Brian Stelter, boop!

01:09:24.000 Yeah, they're all on the chopping block.

01:09:26.000 Don Lemon's on the chopping block, Jim Costa.

01:09:28.000 They're all on the way out, which is hilarious.

01:09:31.000 Look, I shouldn't laugh. 0.99

01:09:33.000 But they should be because they suck at their job. 0.96

01:09:35.000 It has nothing to do with what they did to me. 0.98

01:09:38.000 But look at this.

01:09:39.000 That's the picture on the bottom.

01:09:41.000 That's the real me.

01:09:42.000 You look like the Hulk!

01:09:43.000 Yeah, it's crazy. 1.00

01:09:45.000 They wanted to make me look like dog shit. 1.00

01:09:47.000 They wanted to make me look like I've been smoking- Oh, I remember that! 1.00

01:09:50.000 Horse dewormer! 0.99

01:09:51.000 Praise his horse dewormer.

01:09:52.000 Meanwhile, I didn't praise it.

01:09:54.000 This is what I did.

01:09:55.000 I listed the things that I took, and I said I'm way better.

01:09:59.000 Right.

01:09:59.000 In three days.

01:10:00.000 In five days, I was negative.

01:10:02.000 Right.

01:10:02.000 No one cared about that.

01:10:04.000 Six days later, I did ten rounds in the bag.

01:10:06.000 I didn't get that sick.

01:10:07.000 No!

01:10:08.000 And I wasn't vaccinated, and I was 54. You didn't get it because you're in good shape.

01:10:13.000 Yes, but this is the thing that they don't want you to say.

01:10:17.000 They wanted it to be, this is something that everyone has to do, and if you don't do it, you're not doing the right thing.

01:10:23.000 Listen, there's data, and this is one of the sort of storylines that I need to pursue going forward.

01:10:29.000 You're talking about what's going to happen.

01:10:33.000 There's this whole behavioral psychology movement that governments and private NGOs funded.

01:10:44.000 It started a few years ago, but it really took off with COVID. This idea of how do we nudge and persuade people?

01:10:50.000 How do we get healthy people to stay home?

01:10:53.000 Because they're not really at risk and some of them are aware of that.

01:10:57.000 So is the best way to try to scapegoat.

01:11:05.000 How do we get people without actually doing sort of Chinese style?

01:11:12.000 We're just going to take your rights away. 1.00

01:11:13.000 How do we get people to surrender their rights?

01:11:18.000 I don't think I've said this to you in the past, but the email that I got was just a couple lines a few months ago that stuck with me more than any of the, you know, obviously a lot of people contact me over the last couple years.

01:11:30.000 This guy said to me, he said, I thought love and hate were the two most powerful emotions, but it turns out I was wrong.

01:11:37.000 It turns out the most powerful emotion is fear.

01:11:39.000 Fear.

01:11:39.000 And it's true.

01:11:40.000 If you can scare people, you can get them to do whatever you want.

01:11:43.000 Yeah, hate dissipates.

01:11:45.000 Fear lingers.

01:11:46.000 And especially during a pandemic.

01:11:48.000 And there's a certain level of anxiety that many people in this country already had.

01:11:54.000 And they had a hard time with just regular, everyday life before the pandemic. 0.99

01:11:58.000 And then the pandemic came along and that shit got ramped up to 11. And we got to see a lot of very frail, psychologically frail people completely fall apart. 0.99

01:12:09.000 And you saw them on Twitter calling people that were unvaccinated.

01:12:13.000 They called them plague rats.

01:12:16.000 I mean, it's just wild.

01:12:18.000 And this othering of other people.

01:12:22.000 The same people that when Roe v. 0.76

01:12:24.000 Wade was overturned, they're my body, my choice.

01:12:26.000 The same people.

01:12:28.000 Which, by the way, I think you and I, I mean, we talked about that briefly the last time I was on.

01:12:31.000 I mean, I think we both agree about that.

01:12:33.000 Yes.

01:12:33.000 That people, you know, that banning abortion is a mistake.

01:12:35.000 Yes.

01:12:36.000 Clearly.

01:12:37.000 You're not going to get women not to have abortions. 1.00

01:12:39.000 You're just going to make them miserable.

01:12:40.000 You're going to make it more dangerous. 0.62

01:12:41.000 Yep.

01:12:41.000 You're going to make it horrible.

01:12:42.000 It's a horrible health choice.

01:12:44.000 Yep.

01:12:44.000 And, you know, there's conversations to be had, particularly about late-term abortions.

01:12:49.000 Yes.

01:12:49.000 And there's certainly some conversations to be had about cases of rape and certainly underage people.

01:12:58.000 It's like the idea that you're going to flat-out ban that from those people, it's horrifying.

01:13:04.000 Yes.

01:13:05.000 And, you know, look, I think, as in a lot of things, the Europeans have found sort of this, you know, it's 15 weeks or whatever.

01:13:11.000 There's reasonable ways you can do this.

01:13:13.000 But I think you, I mean...

01:13:14.000 I'm consistent.

01:13:15.000 I didn't want to force people to be vaccinated, and I don't want to force people to have an abortion or not to have an abortion.

01:13:21.000 And I hate abortion, okay?

01:13:24.000 Anybody who has kids knows that anybody who's seen the sonogram...

01:13:28.000 Abortion is murder.

01:13:29.000 It's the murder of a living child, okay?

01:13:31.000 It doesn't mean you can ban it.

01:13:33.000 I wrote something about this a few months ago, the day after that decision got leaked.

01:13:39.000 Just because it's horrible...

01:13:41.000 Doesn't mean you can ban it.

01:13:43.000 And, you know, all I ask, I guess, of myself is to try to be consistent ideologically.

01:13:50.000 And, you know, if I don't believe that I should have vaccinated, you know, that I should have to be vaccinated, Or that you need to be vaccinated because I want you to be, then it's the same thing with abortion.

01:14:03.000 It's a personal decision, even if I think it's a horrible one.

01:14:06.000 I guess the one thing people would argue with me about is that I'm not consistent about drugs, that I'm anti-drug use.

01:14:13.000 No, I don't think you are.

01:14:14.000 And you know, you and I had this conversation with Dr. Mike Hart from Canada, and I brought you on here because even though I am a proponent of cannabis, I'm a regular user of cannabis, I think you're correct.

01:14:27.000 And that is, in many ways, in opposition to my desire to have it legalized.

01:14:34.000 I think it should be legalized, because I think people should have the choice and the decision.

01:14:38.000 But for me, it's not that problem.

01:14:41.000 For some people, it clearly causes schizophrenic breaks.

01:14:45.000 It's doing something.

01:14:46.000 At the very least, there's a correlation between cannabis use and, I think, edibles in general, or in particular, rather.

01:14:52.000 I think there's a connection, and I've personally witnessed it.

01:14:56.000 I've seen it.

01:14:57.000 I know people that went over and didn't come back.

01:15:01.000 I mean, I remember we talked about this.

01:15:03.000 It's funny.

01:15:04.000 I now feel like we have had a conversation that's gone on for years about various topics.

01:15:09.000 We have.

01:15:10.000 You know, my problem with cannabis use and with sort of drug use in general, whether it's cocaine or methamphetamine, is that these drugs have risks that most people use We're good to go.

01:15:35.000 But to their families.

01:15:36.000 They can destroy families.

01:15:37.000 But this is the case with alcohol.

01:15:40.000 We both just had a drink.

01:15:42.000 It's the case with many, many, many things that people regularly consume.

01:15:46.000 But human beings are not identical.

01:15:48.000 We're not bio-identical.

01:15:50.000 The things that affect you might not affect Jamie.

01:15:53.000 It's just the way it is with being a human being. 0.97

01:15:56.000 And to deny that nuance I think is ridiculous.

01:15:59.000 And for me, As a person who uses cannabis, there were so many people that were upset at me that were cannabis users.

01:16:06.000 Just for having me on, huh?

01:16:07.000 Not just for having you on, but agreeing with you.

01:16:10.000 And they were like, what are you doing? 0.98

01:16:11.000 And I'm like, I'm telling the fucking truth. 0.99

01:16:13.000 This is a part of it. 0.98

01:16:14.000 And it didn't stop me from smoking pot, because it doesn't do that to me.

01:16:18.000 Right.

01:16:18.000 But it doesn't stop me from eating peanuts either.

01:16:20.000 I'm not allergic to them.

01:16:22.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:16:22.000 It's like we need reality and we need data and we need all the truth laid out in front of us so that we can make informed decisions.

01:16:30.000 You can't make informed decisions if the truth is hidden.

01:16:34.000 You can't make it if these inconvenient truths bother some people and they would rather you deny reality and, you know, remove facts from the conversation.

01:16:45.000 That's not the way to do things.

01:16:47.000 Yep.

01:16:48.000 Well, that's why I admired the way you handled that and that's why I admired the way you handled COVID because I know the pressure that was on you was substantial.

01:16:58.000 The shittiest thing that's happened to me, and I would actually guess this hasn't happened to you, is that I've lost a lot of friends.

01:17:07.000 And I didn't have that many friends.

01:17:09.000 And, you know, I'm not like that social a guy.

01:17:13.000 And, you know, some of my best friends are not my friends anymore because of...

01:17:18.000 It's because you live in New York.

01:17:19.000 If you lived in Texas, you'd have the same friends.

01:17:22.000 I guess so.

01:17:23.000 This place is different, man. 0.90

01:17:25.000 It is shitty to realize that there are people... 0.89

01:17:35.000 We're good to go. 0.87

01:17:38.000 We're good to go.

01:17:59.000 Unless, I mean, if you're dealing with something that's going to kill, you know, 98% of the world or whatever, by the way, then you wouldn't have to have any rules.

01:18:05.000 People would stay inside, you know, till the end of time. 0.97

01:18:08.000 But it was striking and upsetting to me that people who I'd known for years would say to me basically, screw you. 0.91

01:18:17.000 I don't like the way you think. 0.98

01:18:19.000 I don't like the way you've been talking about this.

01:18:21.000 And I'm not going to talk to you anymore.

01:18:24.000 I mean, that's your right.

01:18:25.000 But God, like, what does it say about what our relationship was?

01:18:29.000 It's not a good relationship, and you're better off without those people.

01:18:31.000 You got off light.

01:18:32.000 You don't want those people in your life.

01:18:34.000 They're weak.

01:18:37.000 Look, there was a lot of people that were very pro-vaccine, that were very anti what I was doing that I still am friends with.

01:18:45.000 And my God, so many of them turned around.

01:18:49.000 My God.

01:18:50.000 I mean, the numbers are crazy.

01:18:51.000 The numbers of people that have emailed me or texted me or called me.

01:18:54.000 So people come, they say to you, hey, you were right about that.

01:18:56.000 Yeah, comics in particular.

01:18:58.000 Comics that really thought that this was their way back to touring.

01:19:02.000 And they would text me, hey man, I think what you're doing is bad for us because we need to tour and this and that.

01:19:09.000 Dude, if you get vaccinated, if this really works, you shouldn't care about me because I can't give it to you.

01:19:14.000 That's right.

01:19:15.000 What are you talking about?

01:19:16.000 That's right.

01:19:16.000 So I have to do it so it protects you?

01:19:18.000 I have to wear a condom so your wife doesn't get pregnant when you have sex with her? 1.00

01:19:21.000 It doesn't make any sense. 1.00

01:19:22.000 What you're saying is nonsense.

01:19:24.000 But it's a narrative.

01:19:25.000 And it's a narrative that was based on fear.

01:19:28.000 And I understand their perspective.

01:19:30.000 Look, I came within a moment of getting the vaccine.

01:19:33.000 The only reason why I didn't get the vaccine was because the UFC allocated a certain amount of vaccines for their employees.

01:19:41.000 I showed up on the day of the fights, and I was going to get vaccinated right before I called the fights.

01:19:46.000 I didn't think it was a big deal.

01:19:47.000 I'm like, maybe I'll be tired. 0.99

01:19:48.000 I don't give a shit. 0.99

01:19:49.000 I can do this. 0.99

01:19:49.000 So I showed up and I said, hey, can I get the vaccine? 0.99

01:19:53.000 And they said, yeah, let me work this out.

01:19:56.000 We'll call you right back.

01:19:57.000 And then they said, because I called Dana White and I said, hey, we got them for everybody who got one for you.

01:20:02.000 I go, great, let's do it.

01:20:04.000 And so then they said I had to go to the clinic, and I said, well, I can't now because it's Saturday.

01:20:09.000 They said, can you come back on Monday?

01:20:11.000 And I said, I'm back home on Monday.

01:20:13.000 I said, but I'll be back in two weeks.

01:20:14.000 We'll do it then.

01:20:15.000 I said, good.

01:20:16.000 So I was like, okay, good, in two weeks.

01:20:17.000 Within that time period, two people I know had strokes.

01:20:21.000 Yeah.

01:20:21.000 Was this spring of last year?

01:20:24.000 This was a full-on pandemic, right when the vaccine started getting distributed to regular people.

01:20:30.000 It was old people at first. 1.00

01:20:31.000 Must have been February, March.

01:20:32.000 Somewhere around then.

01:20:33.000 Somewhere around then.

01:20:34.000 And it was a weird moment where I was like, whoa.

01:20:39.000 And then a couple of people that I knew that were fit.

01:20:41.000 So these were folks who'd gotten vaccinated and then almost immediately had strokes.

01:20:45.000 Within 10, 15 days.

01:20:47.000 Wow.

01:20:47.000 Yeah.

01:20:48.000 Now, I didn't know if that was the case, but one of them was a fit guy who was in his 50s, and the other one was in his 40s.

01:20:54.000 It was weird, and it got me like, whoa.

01:20:58.000 And then it brought me back to all of my thoughts that I'd always had about pharmaceutical companies and studies, and what I understand from talking to people.

01:21:06.000 From talking to researchers when they would describe how they were allowed to throw out studies that didn't fit their narrative.

01:21:14.000 And that they would do 10 studies and then they'd have two bias studies that showed, you know, oh, 100% effective because, you know, two people got it in the control, but four people got it in the COVID. So that means, you know, it was weird fucking, 0.96

01:21:30.000 it was weird monkeying of data. 0.99

01:21:32.000 The opposite.

01:21:33.000 Two people got it in the...

01:21:34.000 But the weird monkeying of data that they're allowed to do.

01:21:37.000 It's not, like, transparent.

01:21:39.000 Then I talked to John Abramson, and John Abramson told me that when...

01:21:44.000 And this is where it got really strange.

01:21:46.000 Like, John Abramson was explaining how these studies work.

01:21:50.000 And he was explaining how they're funded.

01:21:52.000 And you just realize all the shenanigans that take place in these things.

01:21:56.000 And how they're allowed to manipulate data.

01:21:59.000 Yeah.

01:21:59.000 And also that the scientists that are doing peer-reviewed research on the data, they don't get access to the raw data.

01:22:08.000 They get access to the data from the review by the pharmaceutical companies.

01:22:12.000 Yes. 0.98

01:22:13.000 Which is just fucking crazy. 0.95

01:22:15.000 You're trusting the people that make the product to give you the data instead of the scientists having access to all the data and them being able to make their own informed decisions. 0.89

01:22:25.000 So there's a, and I, you know, I don't like talking about stuff when I have not read it myself, when I haven't sort of reviewed it myself, but there's a, one of the people in the Pfizer trial, there's a case report, I believe she had a heart attack and died.

01:22:42.000 And it was a few days.

01:22:44.000 I would love if we could pull it up, but I can't remember it.

01:22:46.000 I'm not going to make you try to find it.

01:22:50.000 She had a heart attack a few days, I believe.

01:22:52.000 It was a young girl.

01:22:53.000 No, no, this is somebody else.

01:22:54.000 Oh, the different one.

01:22:55.000 She had a heart attack and died after the second shot, I think it was.

01:22:59.000 And the reviewers said...

01:23:02.000 I think they said, you know, she had had, maybe she'd had, you know, cardiac disease before.

01:23:10.000 We're classifying this as not related to the vaccine, okay?

01:23:15.000 So the way that works is when the FDA then publishes the report on their sort of like review of the vaccine, and when the pharmaceutical company, when Pfizer writes about it, when their researchers write about it for the New England Journal of Medicine,

01:23:32.000 they say...

01:23:33.000 There were X deaths in the trial.

01:23:35.000 None were related to the vaccine.

01:23:38.000 And only because there was this FOIA request of the FDA, a Freedom of Information Act request of the FDA, that forced the FDA to disclose lots of documents, including these documents that showed the underlying cases of the people who had died,

01:23:53.000 do we know that Okay, the reviewer said this wasn't related to the vaccine, but in fact, it was really just a few days after that second dose was given.

01:24:04.000 Now, do I have her autopsy report?

01:24:06.000 No.

01:24:07.000 I don't even know if an autopsy was done.

01:24:09.000 I don't know more than what they said.

01:24:11.000 But the reason I mention this to you is this is an example of how you make problematic data go away.

01:24:20.000 Your researcher, for whatever reason, says, I don't think this was related to the vaccine.

01:24:24.000 It didn't happen five minutes after, and this woman did have heart disease, and sometimes people have heart disease, have heart attacks, and die. 1.00

01:24:31.000 I classify this as unrelated.

01:24:34.000 By the time it gets to the public through the FDA, All you hear is there were no deaths related to the vaccine.

01:24:43.000 And technically, nobody's lying because that's what the reviewer said.

01:24:47.000 We just don't know and wouldn't have known if not for this Freedom of Information Act request.

01:24:53.000 Maybe it's more complicated than that, and maybe there was somebody who—well, we know there was somebody who had a heart attack and died post-vaccine, and it was pretty close, but the company just decided to say, no, it wasn't related.

01:25:08.000 What's the data when it comes to the VAERS report?

01:25:13.000 How much of it is published versus—how much of it is reported versus how much of it is actually taking place?

01:25:20.000 So it's a great question.

01:25:21.000 We don't know the answer to that.

01:25:24.000 There's clearly underreporting of specific events.

01:25:27.000 And I suspect at this point with COVID, first of all, almost no COVID vaccines are being given.

01:25:31.000 Can I stop you there?

01:25:32.000 Is it possible that it's overreported?

01:25:35.000 No, it is not possible it's overreported.

01:25:38.000 It's possible that here's what the vaccine advocates would tell you.

01:25:42.000 They would say, there's a lot of public attention given to this particular vaccine.

01:25:49.000 And as a result, people who had side effects were more likely to report those.

01:25:57.000 If I got the flu vaccine, maybe three days later I had a headache, I wouldn't report that.

01:26:02.000 So that would mean less under-reporting.

01:26:05.000 But it wouldn't mean over-reporting.

01:26:07.000 Does that make sense?

01:26:09.000 Yeah, I see what you're saying.

01:26:10.000 So, no, here's the other thing they would say.

01:26:13.000 And here's an interesting situation.

01:26:16.000 So I actually wrote about this a few days ago.

01:26:19.000 There's a woman in Miami, 64 years old, got the vaccine, got a second dose.

01:26:25.000 It was last April.

01:26:26.000 In May, she was in her car and she had a terrible panic attack.

01:26:29.000 She basically just forgot where she was, okay?

01:26:32.000 You can imagine, you're driving, all of a sudden, it's like you're having an amnesia attack.

01:26:41.000 Over the next few days, her symptoms worsened.

01:26:43.000 She started having headaches.

01:26:44.000 She goes to the hospital.

01:26:46.000 They don't know what's wrong.

01:26:48.000 By mid-June, this is less than a month later, it's two months after the vaccine, she's hospitalized.

01:26:56.000 She has something called CJD, Kreutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

01:26:59.000 Terrible.

01:27:00.000 It's a brain disease.

01:27:01.000 It's invariably fatable.

01:27:03.000 What's that?

01:27:03.000 Prion disease.

01:27:04.000 Exactly.

01:27:05.000 Exactly.

01:27:07.000 She dies.

01:27:08.000 She dies in July of 2021. Her doctors actually wrote up this report because it was so striking to them.

01:27:16.000 It was so closely related to the timing of the vaccine.

01:27:20.000 Okay.

01:27:21.000 And this was published on HCA, which is the Hospital Corporation of America, the biggest for-profit hospital chain in the world.

01:27:29.000 They have an academic website.

01:27:31.000 They put up stuff from their researchers.

01:27:33.000 And then they actually pulled the report, but they claim they're going to repost it.

01:27:37.000 They said they pulled it because too many people had downloaded it, which is an interesting explanation.

01:27:42.000 Yeah, we don't want that.

01:27:43.000 Yeah, we don't want people to know about our research.

01:27:45.000 So, okay, here's the thing.

01:27:48.000 It is possible, Joe, and I would actually say it's likely that this is a coincidence, okay?

01:27:55.000 People – CJD is very rare.

01:27:58.000 About three – actually, last year, I think the numbers have been going up slightly, but about 400 or 500 people a year in the United States get it, okay?

01:28:05.000 There's 350 million people in the United States, 330 million.

01:28:08.000 That's one per million, maybe a bit more.

01:28:11.000 But we vaccinated everybody, okay?

01:28:13.000 So some people are going to wind up getting CJD or being diagnosed with it.

01:28:19.000 They would have had it anyway.

01:28:20.000 That's right.

01:28:21.000 A few days after the vaccine.

01:28:22.000 And it's just coincidence.

01:28:24.000 I don't know.

01:28:26.000 And at this point, no one can prove that there's a relationship there.

01:28:30.000 And here's the thing about VAERS. You can make that argument about practically any case in VAERS. Even if it's five minutes after, you could say, well, this person, they were going to have a heart attack anyway.

01:28:43.000 Now, at some point, if enough doctors who are sort of medical experts in a field write enough case reports and there's enough of an outlier, with the myocarditis, okay?

01:28:57.000 Myocarditis in young people is rare.

01:29:00.000 And there were so many extra cases following vaccination that even the CDC and the FDA and Rochelle Walensky and all the vaccine fanatics, they couldn't argue about it anymore.

01:29:12.000 They had to admit that this was a problem, that this was happening.

01:29:15.000 But for something like strokes especially, the more common the illness is, Even if there's a big increase, any one case, it's going to be hard to argue.

01:29:28.000 And the increase has to be really big before it stands out.

01:29:32.000 So if you had Peter Hotez or some vaccine advocate on, he would be saying to you, well, Joe, I'm really sorry your friend's had strokes.

01:29:42.000 But we can't know that that's related to the vaccine.

01:29:45.000 And Berenson, that Berenson character pointing at the VAERS data, he was just putting out things to try to discourage people from getting vaccinated.

01:29:52.000 And that's wrong.

01:29:57.000 It's...

01:29:59.000 It's so weird to hear you say these things because it sounds so logical, but it's more acceptable now for some strange reason.

01:30:09.000 It seems like the tide is turning and then the numbers of people that are upset about the fact that they had been misled and the fact that the data was somewhat I mean, absolutely filtered.

01:30:26.000 It's such a confusing time because I don't remember a time where there was this much pushback against data, this much pushback against analyzing something that could be a significant factor in the rest of people's lives.

01:30:45.000 Yes, I agree.

01:30:47.000 I mean, again, I do think there's It'll be interesting to see how it goes in the next few months and years because there are people and not a small number of people who are angry now that they were forced to be vaccinated.

01:30:58.000 They feel they were forced, right, at risk of losing their jobs.

01:31:01.000 And I hear from them.

01:31:03.000 They are angry.

01:31:04.000 I know people.

01:31:04.000 Yeah.

01:31:05.000 Yeah.

01:31:06.000 And I know people with vaccine injuries that were forced.

01:31:09.000 Well, tell them to email me.

01:31:11.000 I'll write about it.

01:31:11.000 Yeah, well, get ready.

01:31:14.000 But, you know, here's how we know, or here's how I know that the zeitgeist has changed more than people even admit publicly.

01:31:23.000 Look at the data on kids.

01:31:26.000 Look at how few children under five have gotten this thing since it was approved in June.

01:31:32.000 And I don't know if Jimmy can pull up the number, but 95% of kids under five have not gotten a single shot.

01:31:42.000 And what's even more stunning to me is that even in that group, that 5% group that got the first shot, 80% of those kids didn't get a second shot yet, even though most of them are eligible at this point.

01:31:55.000 So 99% 99% of children under 5 are not vaccinated against COVID. And you're a parent, I'm a parent, if we believed that that was good for our kids, or even not bad for them,

01:32:10.000 we'd go do it tomorrow.

01:32:13.000 Yeah.

01:32:13.000 So people know.

01:32:14.000 Well, that's where people are freaking out, right?

01:32:16.000 When you come for their kids.

01:32:19.000 The data on children was so undeniable in terms of what happens when they actually get it.

01:32:25.000 I mean, I have anecdotal data because both of my children got it and it was nothing.

01:32:30.000 Nothing.

01:32:30.000 I mean, one kid had a headache, the other kid, she just didn't feel good for a couple of days.

01:32:35.000 And I've seen her way worse with the flu.

01:32:37.000 Yep.

01:32:38.000 It feels much worse for kids.

01:32:39.000 For kids.

01:32:40.000 It's, you know, my parents, on the other hand, were terrified of it.

01:32:43.000 You know, I didn't see them for a year, and they're, you know, they're hardline Democrats.

01:32:48.000 My parents are hippies.

01:32:49.000 Oh, that's interesting.

01:32:50.000 And they were all in on the vaccine, and they thought I was wrong.

01:32:54.000 How do they feel now?

01:32:55.000 They, you know, they're reluctant to change, unfortunately.

01:33:00.000 But I think they recognized clearly when I got better so quick that at least for my own personal choice I was correct.

01:33:07.000 Have they gotten COVID? Yes.

01:33:09.000 And they've been fine.

01:33:10.000 I had them taken care of too.

01:33:14.000 It's one of those things, man.

01:33:16.000 People have these belief systems that they've adhered to, and they don't want to let it go.

01:33:21.000 And that gave them comfort during the early days of COVID, and it's going to be a slow erosion of that faith that they have.

01:33:28.000 And I don't know what's going to turn the tide for everybody, but I feel like in the future, when the dust settles and we get a chance to look at this accurately, I think people are going to have a very different view than they had when this all was going down.

01:33:45.000 I hope you are right.

01:33:47.000 I mean, you and I are both old enough to remember the Berlin Wall and remember the Berlin Wall coming down.

01:33:53.000 And there was this moment afterwards when the Soviet archives opened up and it was like, we got the truth. 0.89

01:34:00.000 We always knew the Soviet was bad and they did X, Y, and Z and these camps and whatever. 0.98

01:34:05.000 But to see the internal documents and to realize, like...

01:34:10.000 They, here's what they were saying inside that government.

01:34:15.000 It was, I think, you know, especially if you lived over there, it was this moment of great relief.

01:34:22.000 Like the truth came out.

01:34:23.000 You know, we always knew they lied to us.

01:34:25.000 We always knew that they were terrible and they cheated us and everything else.

01:34:28.000 But here's the truth.

01:34:31.000 And so, you know, I'd like to believe that maybe we'll have that moment with this.

01:34:36.000 I'm not so sure. 0.97

01:34:37.000 I think the people that stick to the original narrative are going to feel so foolish. 0.96

01:34:41.000 I really do.

01:34:42.000 I think they're going to push back against it for as long as they can, and they're going to stop talking about it.

01:34:47.000 They're claiming that the vaccine saved 20 million lives last year, which is a joke, Joe.

01:34:51.000 How many do you think it saved?

01:34:53.000 Maybe saved a million?

01:34:55.000 How many old people? 0.99

01:34:56.000 How many fat people? 0.99

01:34:58.000 I mean, it has to have saved people.

01:35:00.000 Again, I think it is...

01:35:02.000 Again, the math gets really complicated.

01:35:05.000 First of all...

01:35:06.000 It's not an accident that both in the U.S. and the U.K., and Israel, deaths went up in January 2021 because there is this period of time after you get the first shot, you are definitely more vulnerable.

01:35:20.000 That's why you don't vaccinate for the flu in the middle of flu season.

01:35:24.000 You try to vaccinate out of season.

01:35:26.000 Well, that's what they always have said in the past about pandemics.

01:35:30.000 But they didn't do it in this case.

01:35:32.000 So, A, there was that period.

01:35:34.000 Then you had this, what I call in the book and what I've always called the happy vaccine valley.

01:35:40.000 You get this period where it actually works for a few months.

01:35:45.000 That's where the lives were saved, the spring of 2021. I don't know how many lives that would be.

01:35:52.000 Then it started to break down.

01:35:54.000 They gave people a booster.

01:35:55.000 They got a couple more months.

01:35:56.000 Then Omicron came along. 0.84

01:35:58.000 Since Omicron, the vaccines are useless. 0.98

01:36:01.000 Useless, if not negative.

01:36:03.000 And I am promising you that it's against infection.

01:36:06.000 The data is clear.

01:36:07.000 And I would, again, argue against serious disease and death, also useless.

01:36:11.000 It's a complicated data argument.

01:36:13.000 I'm not going to bore you with it.

01:36:15.000 At the least, they're not very useful against Omicron.

01:36:31.000 No anti-N antibody immunity, just the spike and a very specific version of the spike.

01:36:38.000 We gave the virus a target and the virus, you know, it's going to mutate in the way that it gets the greatest benefit.

01:36:45.000 All right.

01:36:46.000 So the vaccines are now useless. 0.99

01:36:49.000 They're useless now.

01:36:51.000 There was this moment in January of 2021. I don't think they did any good because, again, you have that first month or the first couple weeks of where infections actually appeared to rise.

01:37:02.000 You have a few months of protection.

01:37:04.000 How many people got saved?

01:37:06.000 I don't know.

01:37:08.000 How many of those people were under 50?

01:37:10.000 Almost none.

01:37:11.000 Do we have any data on why they tried to stop the distribution of the antibodies?

01:37:18.000 Well, yeah, because they said they didn't work against Omicron.

01:37:22.000 So, again, you made the point.

01:37:24.000 If the antibodies don't work against Omicron, why are we giving people this vaccine that causes your body to produce the old spike?

01:37:33.000 And I'll tell you something else.

01:37:35.000 This Omicron booster, it's basically BS. It's basically PR. Okay?

01:37:40.000 Because anybody who got vaccinated with the original, their body...

01:37:46.000 It's called original antigenic sin.

01:37:48.000 It's called immune imprinting.

01:37:50.000 Your body is going to be focused on the original, even if you get the new vaccine.

01:37:58.000 And this is the theory as to why Omicron evades it.

01:38:01.000 Because your body's looking for something that's not there, and then this other virus comes in and gets...

01:38:06.000 The spike is different in shape.

01:38:09.000 The simple coronavirus, it looks like a fist with these spikes sticking out.

01:38:16.000 But the spike itself is actually this incredibly complicated, essentially, coil of proteins.

01:38:23.000 And Omicron has different proteins in various places, so the coil looks different.

01:38:28.000 I think?

01:38:44.000 Now, what is this...

01:38:45.000 Conspiracy theorists love to cling on to...

01:38:47.000 I can't believe I used that pejorative, but that's it. 1.00

01:38:50.000 They love to cling on to this notion that COVID has not been isolated.

01:38:55.000 What does that mean?

01:38:56.000 I don't know.

01:38:56.000 I don't know what they're talking about.

01:38:58.000 We know we have the genetic formula for COVID. We know exactly what it looks like.

01:39:06.000 They've taken electron microscope pictures of it.

01:39:09.000 It's been isolated.

01:39:10.000 They say the same thing about HIV, that HIV doesn't really exist.

01:39:15.000 HIV exists.

01:39:15.000 These viruses exist.

01:39:16.000 They kill people.

01:39:18.000 Yeah, why do you think they say that it hasn't been isolated?

01:39:20.000 What's the purpose of that?

01:39:22.000 So I believe that it's sort of a corruption of the argument, which I think actually is true, that the Chinese never provided the original virions. 0.99

01:39:34.000 So when they isolated the original virus in Wuhan, in Hunan province, they didn't give us copies of that.

01:39:46.000 They just gave us the molecular formula.

01:39:50.000 I think that's where that complaint comes from.

01:39:56.000 So, where it stands with you now is that you are in the process of preparing to sue the federal government?

01:40:05.000 The United States government.

01:40:06.000 Now, what specific branch?

01:40:10.000 I'm going to sue the president.

01:40:12.000 Maybe it's technically the United States or maybe it's actually Biden himself.

01:40:17.000 I'm going to sue Andy Slavitt.

01:40:18.000 I'm going to say they violated my First Amendment rights by attempting to Twitter is a private company.

01:40:26.000 So, again, we can argue about what the California Constitution might give, what rights it might give me.

01:40:33.000 But putting that aside, the First Amendment does not apply to private companies, right?

01:40:38.000 So Spotify, they want to carry you or they want to carry me or they want to carry Rachel Maddow or whoever, right?

01:40:46.000 They're a private company.

01:40:47.000 They have the right to do what they want.

01:40:50.000 Twitter, the argument is Twitter is just a bigger version of that.

01:40:54.000 So if they want to dump me, they have the First Amendment right to do that.

01:41:00.000 And again, we can argue about whether California actually stops them from doing that, but put that aside.

01:41:07.000 The federal government doesn't have the right to stop me from speaking.

01:41:12.000 Unless I'm screaming harassment at somebody for six hours, then I'm committing a crime.

01:41:18.000 But it doesn't have the right to stop me from being outside and speaking or speaking in my house.

01:41:24.000 I have the right for freedom of speech.

01:41:27.000 And when whoever it was in the White House told Twitter, and again, we could pull up the exact language, but Twitter employees said to each other after this meeting, They had a very tough question about why Alex Berenson is still on the platform.

01:41:47.000 Okay?

01:41:48.000 So this is like third hand?

01:41:49.000 No, not third hand.

01:41:50.000 It was somebody at the meeting.

01:41:52.000 Somebody at the meeting.

01:41:52.000 Talking to somebody else at the meeting.

01:41:54.000 And then they said they were very interested in Alex Berenson.

01:41:58.000 That's another direct quote from this meeting.

01:42:00.000 And what human being was saying that?

01:42:02.000 I don't know that.

01:42:05.000 I... The...

01:42:08.000 The discovery that I have obtained in this lawsuit doesn't include the names of certain Twitter employees.

01:42:17.000 So Twitter, for example, if it was Jack Dorsey, I would know.

01:42:23.000 But junior employees, I don't care who said it.

01:42:29.000 In other words, I'm not in this to damage some junior Twitter employee.

01:42:36.000 So I don't care whether it was person X or person Y. I know he or she worked for Twitter.

01:42:42.000 I know they were having a Slack channel conversation.

01:42:45.000 And I know this is what they said.

01:42:47.000 So my argument's going to be – and by the way, I have more discovery on the way.

01:42:52.000 I keep publishing new documents.

01:42:54.000 You know, last week or just a couple days ago, I published something showing that Oliver Darcy of our favorite network, CNN, went to Twitter to complain about me and basically tried to get me banned.

01:43:05.000 Although he didn't use those words.

01:43:07.000 What specific claim had you said that he was in opposition to?

01:43:11.000 I can't remember.

01:43:13.000 I think he complained to them a couple of times about me.

01:43:16.000 Once he's mentioned my name and then once it just says a CNN reporter.

01:43:22.000 This was in July and August.

01:43:24.000 Why would a CNN reporter?

01:43:26.000 Because they don't believe in free speech for anybody but themselves.

01:43:29.000 I don't know.

01:43:29.000 Ask him.

01:43:30.000 But how strange is that, that a journalist would contact a social media platform?

01:43:36.000 I agree.

01:43:37.000 On the substack, I said journalists who hate journalism.

01:43:40.000 That was the headline.

01:43:42.000 But it's not just that.

01:43:44.000 It's like, what weird overstep is that?

01:43:47.000 You know, it's phrased as, are you going to do anything about this because this guy's spreading misinformation?

01:43:53.000 Well, is that because they were doing an interview with this person and they were trying to figure out like...

01:43:58.000 No, no, no.

01:43:58.000 It's just about a tweet.

01:44:00.000 No, no, no.

01:44:01.000 It was me saying stuff that people didn't like that they call misinformation and then they go to Twitter and say, this guy's using your platform for evil.

01:44:13.000 You need to do something.

01:44:14.000 Or are you going to do anything about it, Twitter?

01:44:17.000 That's how they phrase it.

01:44:18.000 When The Atlantic wrote that article about you, the wrongest man of the pandemic, how many of those things that they said turned out to be absolutely true?

01:44:28.000 That's a good question.

01:44:30.000 The single best thing in there, and I'd have to go back and look, is they said, Berenson claims that infections increased after vaccination.

01:44:42.000 That's totally wrong.

01:44:44.000 Infections decreased after vaccination.

01:44:46.000 Well, that sentence has proven not to be so accurate in the last 18 months.

01:44:52.000 What was their other claims that you'd said?

01:44:55.000 Were they right about anything?

01:44:57.000 Were they right?

01:44:59.000 Well, we've got to go back and look.

01:45:00.000 I mean, there were a couple of things they were sort of focused on that I didn't really say.

01:45:10.000 They were talking about how cases were counted during the clinical trials, which was something I didn't care about.

01:45:20.000 I can't remember what else they said.

01:45:25.000 I think if you went back and looked, you would say a couple of their points have not been proven wrong and a couple have at this point. 1.00

01:45:35.000 But the tenor of the piece was this guy's an idiot or worse than an idiot. 1.00

01:45:42.000 He's spreading lies and the vaccines really work and are going to get us out of this. 1.00

01:45:48.000 And it was also that you're a grifter.

01:45:49.000 No, I don't think they called me a grifter at that point because that was pre-substack.

01:45:55.000 So the grifting stuff really started after the stack because I didn't get paid to be on Twitter.

01:46:01.000 Although I did write those booklets.

01:46:03.000 I don't know.

01:46:03.000 I can't remember if they used the word grifter.

01:46:05.000 I hate that word, but what can I do about it?

01:46:07.000 But the last line in the piece, Joe, was something like, the case for the vaccines is built on scientific evidence. 0.98

01:46:15.000 The case against the vaccines is a steaming pile of horseshit. 0.91

01:46:19.000 So that's, you know what?

01:46:22.000 Here's the problem with that term scientific evidence, is now that we know where the evidence is coming from and how the evidence is actually being relayed to the people that are reviewing the evidence, it's not raw data.

01:46:36.000 Well, I mean, it's more...

01:46:41.000 A vaccine, sort of by its nature, is supposed to be a long-term solution, right?

01:46:47.000 So one of the points that I made was because we rushed this out and then because we blew up these clinical trials.

01:46:57.000 In other words, we gave everyone who had the placebo the vaccine.

01:47:00.000 Why did they do that?

01:47:03.000 Well, this is a legitimate—I think it was a terrible idea, but this was the argument.

01:47:08.000 The argument was, we know these work, and we have a couple months of data showing that they're not dangerous, and so it's unethical to deny these people who took a risk, you know,

01:47:23.000 because we don't—you know, when they went into the trial, we didn't know how well the vaccine would work.

01:47:26.000 Now we know it works.

01:47:27.000 We have to allow them to be vaccinated.

01:47:30.000 And since we're rolling this out to everybody, as a practical matter, they're going to go get the vaccine anyway.

01:47:37.000 So we might as well offer it to them.

01:47:39.000 And the FDA agreed with that.

01:47:41.000 But what it meant was we don't have any long-term safety data that's really clean.

01:47:47.000 And now that all these – the strokes, the myocarditis, and worst of all, this increase in all-cause deaths that no one has been able to explain – Now that this stuff is piling up, if we had this group, if we had continued the trials and said to those 20,000 people who'd gotten the placebo,

01:48:07.000 you can't get the vaccine.

01:48:09.000 We need you to continue to be in this control group so that we can compare your outcomes to the vaccinated people for the next five years.

01:48:17.000 I'm sorry.

01:48:18.000 We just need you to do this.

01:48:20.000 It's important because we're going to give this thing to a lot of people and we need a clean group.

01:48:28.000 I think?

01:48:41.000 Vaccines are pretty safe.

01:48:42.000 Even if it was 50-50.

01:48:44.000 Say, okay, you know what?

01:48:46.000 Yeah, we have this weird thing happening with all these deaths, but in this really good sample, there doesn't seem to be any problem.

01:48:54.000 You know what?

01:48:54.000 So Berenson's just, he's just firing flares, okay?

01:48:59.000 On the other hand, if it was 100 people who'd been vaccinated had died and 20 in the placebo group, then we say, this is not good.

01:49:07.000 And we really need to look at what might be causing this, whether or not the companies want us to or not.

01:49:13.000 The problem is we don't have either of those.

01:49:18.000 We don't have any of those because we blew up the placebo group.

01:49:21.000 So we are operating in a – it's not an information vacuum.

01:49:26.000 It's worse than that.

01:49:28.000 This is why, if you were a doctor in 1965, if you were somebody who operated on lungs, or you were an oncologist of any kind, You knew.

01:49:40.000 You knew that cigarettes were poison.

01:49:42.000 Okay?

01:49:42.000 You'd seen too many cases.

01:49:44.000 All right?

01:49:45.000 By the 50s, the late 50s, the early 60s.

01:49:48.000 And the epidemiology was very clear.

01:49:51.000 All right?

01:49:52.000 Cigarettes are not good for you.

01:49:53.000 You smoked for a long time, they're not good for your lungs.

01:49:57.000 I can't believe that, you know.

01:49:58.000 Duh.

01:49:59.000 Duh.

01:49:59.000 Right?

01:50:01.000 Joe, it took 35 years for that to become the public consensus and for people to stop smoking.

01:50:07.000 And that was something that was like a 25 to 1 risk ratio.

01:50:11.000 Everybody who got lung cancer after the 1960s was a smoker.

01:50:15.000 Didn't matter.

01:50:16.000 It took forever.

01:50:17.000 And the companies threw up every single obstacle they could.

01:50:22.000 Oh, people have a genetic predisposition that makes them smoke and makes them have lung cancer.

01:50:28.000 There's no chemicals that, you know, we burn all these chemicals that you find in here, so it's not there.

01:50:35.000 I can't even remember.

01:50:36.000 They had all these excuses.

01:50:37.000 It took a long time.

01:50:40.000 And so with this, it's going to be worse.

01:50:44.000 Why are things going to be worse?

01:50:47.000 Because the risks are seemingly marginal, although a marginal risk over a huge group of people can still be a lot of injuries and death, because it's not just that the companies don't want to do any research, it's that the governments...

01:51:03.000 Encourage this.

01:51:04.000 So they're not going to want to find out the answer.

01:51:07.000 I mean, I wrote something like this a few weeks ago where I said, the problem for the public health authorities is that even announcing an inquiry, even saying, you know what, we're concerned about this rise in all-cause deaths, we're going to look, would throw into doubt the last 18 months.

01:51:28.000 Yeah.

01:51:30.000 Is there any data that's being done on the all-cause mortality increase?

01:51:35.000 Or is there any studies?

01:51:37.000 I mean, there's been some reports, you know, so like, you know, the UK government reports the data each week and they break it out.

01:51:45.000 The Australian government has been reporting the data monthly and they actually have said, you know, here's the baskets, right?

01:51:53.000 So here's the people who died of diabetes and that's been a big increase.

01:51:56.000 Here's the people who died of Alzheimer's, that's been a big increase.

01:52:00.000 Beyond that, no, not really.

01:52:04.000 There's not been this...

01:52:09.000 You know, I sort of outlined what would have to happen.

01:52:13.000 This is a national level problem.

01:52:16.000 So the analogy that I use is like, so there are some problems that like you can solve as a person.

01:52:23.000 There are some problems you can solve with like civil litigation and regulation.

01:52:26.000 There are some problems that you need a subpoena and a gun and a badge to solve, right?

01:52:30.000 And then there's problems that are bigger than that.

01:52:33.000 No, despite what Hollywood, Sylvester Stallone or Chris Evans can't fly to Ukraine and get the Russians out. 1.00

01:52:45.000 That's a national level problem, which requires a government or group of governments to figure out.

01:52:53.000 The vaccine issue is now a national level issue, right?

01:52:57.000 It would require enormous data collection, somebody in charge asking the right questions, and a decision that we're going to find out the answer, even if it's really unpleasant.

01:53:08.000 Maybe it won't be unpleasant, maybe it will, but we're going to find out the answer.

01:53:13.000 Is there any possible connection to people getting COVID and developing heart issues and that leading to the all-cause mortality increase?

01:53:21.000 So that, I think, is going to be the case that's made.

01:53:25.000 I don't see it.

01:53:27.000 So there's this long COVID thing, right?

01:53:29.000 There's this idea you get long COVID. What is long COVID? Has it been defined?

01:53:36.000 It's people who still suffer physically after having had COVID. Not always physically.

01:53:41.000 Sometimes psychologically, psychiatrically.

01:53:44.000 Psychiatrically.

01:53:44.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:53:45.000 So here, look.

01:53:46.000 That's what they're calling long COVID? Oh, no, no, no.

01:53:48.000 It's brain fog.

01:53:49.000 It's fatigue.

01:53:50.000 It's anxiety.

01:53:52.000 No, no.

01:53:53.000 Here, look.

01:53:53.000 So, those people...

01:54:18.000 I can believe they have post-COVID symptoms, but that's not what we're talking about mainly when we're talking about long COVID. It is a group of I get in trouble, but I'm just going to say it because it's true.

01:54:29.000 It's a group of middle-aged women, generally, with anxiety disorders or, you know, other moderate psychiatric syndromes who oftentimes had other sort of ill-defined, whether it was fibromyalgia or irritable bowel,

01:54:46.000 you know, this is stuff that's been...

01:54:49.000 That doesn't really get worse or better.

01:54:51.000 It kind of comes and goes.

01:54:53.000 It's not easy to define or treat.

01:54:56.000 These are the people who say they have long COVID. Not always, but mostly.

01:55:01.000 And it is very hard to connect those illnesses, whether it's fatigue or uterine fibroids or whatever the...

01:55:09.000 Whatever the syndrome of the week is with serious strokes and heart attacks and the stuff that actually kills people.

01:55:19.000 Now, when we talk about myocarditis, what is the data in terms of people who got COVID and got myocarditis versus people who got vaccinated and got myocarditis?

01:55:30.000 So the argument people will make, sort of the vaccine community will make, is that...

01:55:36.000 Is there a community of vaccines?

01:55:38.000 The vaccine advocacy community.

01:55:40.000 Sometimes I think they are actually vaccines.

01:55:43.000 They love vaccines so much.

01:55:46.000 Is that, you know, there's very high rates of myocarditis in people who got COVID. So the problem is, you know, when you really dive into the data, it's not clear.

01:56:04.000 I'm not even going to argue.

01:56:05.000 Let's just assume that's true.

01:56:08.000 Here's the real problem.

01:56:09.000 The problem is the people who get myocarditis after getting COVID are old, generally.

01:56:13.000 People who get myocarditis after a COVID vaccine are young, generally.

01:56:18.000 So, once again, it's an issue of why did we vaccinate these people who aren't at risk from COVID with a shot that is bad for them?

01:56:26.000 Well, they didn't think it was bad when they first got it.

01:56:31.000 They shouldn't...

01:56:32.000 The default should have been, this is a technology that has been used in a few hundred, a couple thousand people in clinical trials In the last five years, we've been unable to advance any of these drugs out of phase one or two testing.

01:56:48.000 Why on earth are we telling a healthy 20-year-old or 10-year-old or 30-year-old who's at zero risk of serious complications from COVID to get this shot?

01:56:58.000 And it shouldn't be, by the way, it shouldn't be to make grandma feel better.

01:57:03.000 You do not make people get medical care to make somebody else's life better.

01:57:08.000 That's not how it was supposed to work.

01:57:10.000 Particularly after the wide distribution of the vaccines for those people.

01:57:14.000 That's right.

01:57:15.000 Because if it did offer the protection that they were advertising, it should have been a non-issue.

01:57:21.000 That's right.

01:57:22.000 It should have been like, well, you didn't listen and now you have COVID and now you're sick and I'm not.

01:57:26.000 That's right.

01:57:26.000 Because I did the right thing.

01:57:27.000 Another wonderful aspect of last year that all these people want to forget.

01:57:31.000 The, I'm going to deny you medical care. 0.99

01:57:34.000 You didn't get vaccinated, so screw you. 0.99

01:57:38.000 Everything, including children who needed heart transplants. 0.99

01:57:43.000 Wild. 0.99

01:57:44.000 Wild shit, because with what we know about the potential risks of the vaccine, giving that to a child who's already compromised doesn't seem like a wise choice anyway. 1.00

01:57:56.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:57:59.000 I mean, look, so, for example, in Denmark now, they're not giving the vaccine to any kids under five, except if those kids are really sick.

01:58:08.000 So the idea is, you know...

01:58:11.000 Immune compromised people. 0.60

01:58:12.000 Yeah, and maybe COVID is a risk for you, so we're going to hope that the vaccine is a better alternative for you.

01:58:23.000 So...

01:58:24.000 Like, again, I get that.

01:58:27.000 The problem with that is that then they should have tested the vaccine on more of those people before, you know, making these assumptions.

01:58:34.000 But at least that's like a reasonable way to look at it.

01:58:37.000 Do they have a theory?

01:58:39.000 And, you know, I know Dr. Peter McCullough has a theory.

01:58:41.000 Well, he has his opinion on this.

01:58:44.000 But what do they think is causing these adverse reactions?

01:58:50.000 So the best guess is that it's often autoimmune.

01:58:56.000 So again, this is what the diabetes points to.

01:58:59.000 There's cases of shingles and sort of bad psoriatic arthritis, bad, in some cases, rheumatoid arthritis.

01:59:09.000 These are all autoimmune conditions.

01:59:11.000 So your body is attacking itself.

01:59:13.000 Your immune system is going haywire, going into overdrive.

01:59:16.000 Well, what does the vaccine do?

01:59:17.000 The vaccine is designed to encourage your immune system to ramp it up in case you are infected with COVID. So is it possible that that is having off target effects in some people?

01:59:30.000 Again, as you said, we're not all the same.

01:59:33.000 Not everybody has a peanut allergy.

01:59:51.000 What we were told, and I believe the CDC has now taken this off its website, is that the spike protein would be very, very localized.

01:59:59.000 They just took it off their website.

02:00:01.000 Exactly.

02:00:01.000 So they're now admitting that that's not always true.

02:00:03.000 And maybe the spike itself, even if it's unconnected to the rest, the coronavirus can have especially heart problems.

02:00:10.000 So those are sort of the two primary theories.

02:00:13.000 What I will say is this is where like, you know, like an A-team of immunologists and virologists and people who are like specialized in organic chemistry, like this is where we need those people to be operating outside of Pfizer immediately.

02:00:32.000 And to be coming in clean and to be really looking for what the answer is.

02:00:36.000 And maybe the answer is, you know what, we've looked for a year and we really actually don't think the vaccines cause any of these problems.

02:00:42.000 But I would feel way better if it weren't the same people who'd been saying since December of 2020, the vaccines are perfect, saying that.

02:00:51.000 Why is it affecting young boys and young men so much?

02:00:56.000 So, you know, another great question.

02:01:00.000 You know, one theory is that the analogy that I've heard is that so, like, if you're a young athlete, for example, you know, you're the equivalent of a fast car, right?

02:01:10.000 So, you know, if the engine is going to blow, it's going to be more obvious in the case of a car that's, you know, 10,000 RPMs a minute, you know.

02:01:22.000 Than, you know, most of us who are semi-sedentary.

02:01:25.000 Hence the soccer players.

02:01:26.000 Exactly.

02:01:29.000 So that, you know, essentially that there's going to be other people who've had heart damage.

02:01:34.000 It just hasn't shown up.

02:01:35.000 Now, I want to say one positive thing about the myocarditis, which is, you know, the studies that have been done seem to show that after a few months, you don't see long-term heart damage.

02:01:48.000 Now, I would say...

02:01:51.000 I would say, you know, have they looked really, really hard?

02:01:55.000 They haven't looked really, really hard, but they've looked pretty hard, and they seem fairly confident that whatever, you know, adverse impact doesn't necessarily last that long.

02:02:06.000 Well, that's good news.

02:02:07.000 Yes.

02:02:07.000 And this is good news for the young people that suffered from it.

02:02:11.000 Yes.

02:02:12.000 Including one of my friend's sons, who was 21. They forced him to get it, and he had a terrible reaction.

02:02:19.000 This...

02:02:21.000 This data that they have on the long term, what is it based on?

02:02:26.000 How are they measuring the myocarditis?

02:02:29.000 Are they seeing a dissipation of the myocarditis?

02:02:32.000 You go back and look at what somebody's ejection fraction is and how well their heart is pumping.

02:02:39.000 You can image the heart now.

02:02:41.000 In some ways, medicine is just absolutely amazing what they can do.

02:02:46.000 And so they're not seeing long-term heart damage.

02:02:49.000 They're not seeing necessarily elevated enzymes.

02:02:52.000 If your heart starts to deteriorate, you get CK and troponin and these other enzymes that they can measure.

02:03:01.000 So there's all these ways to measure how well your heart's working.

02:03:06.000 And again, I'm not a cardiologist, but my strong impression is that the data shows that after a few months, people seem to be better.

02:03:14.000 Well, that's good news.

02:03:18.000 Paxlovid. 0.72

02:03:18.000 Paxlovid I like. 0.72

02:03:19.000 People hate me for liking it.

02:03:20.000 Why do they hate you for liking it?

02:03:22.000 Because I love Ivermectin.

02:03:23.000 My readers love Ivermectin, which I think is fine, but basically a placebo.

02:03:28.000 Really?

02:03:29.000 Yeah, pretty much.

02:03:30.000 Why do you think that?

02:03:33.000 It's complicated.

02:03:34.000 Didn't we get into this last time?

02:03:37.000 But it's worth it for people that didn't listen.

02:03:40.000 Not everyone listens all eight hours?

02:03:43.000 I don't think so.

02:03:43.000 I think most people don't.

02:03:46.000 I'm actually amazed how many people will come back to me and quote me something that I said like two hours.

02:03:51.000 I'm like, wow, you listened to the whole thing.

02:03:56.000 I think ivermectin...

02:03:59.000 First of all, I don't think it's particularly dangerous, and I think anybody who wants it should be allowed to use it under a doctor's care.

02:04:07.000 I don't think there's a great theoretical justification for it, and I think that the data, when they've tried to do prospective trials...

02:04:16.000 You can go look at a bunch of people who got it and say, oh, they did really well, and we're going to find an equal group of people who didn't get it and see how they did.

02:04:25.000 But there's always a little bit of...

02:04:29.000 There's always a little bit of cloudiness around how good that data really is.

02:04:34.000 The best way to do it is to take 1,000 people, say, I'm going to give 500 of you ivermectin and 500 of you nothing, and we're going to see how you are a week later.

02:04:43.000 And there have been a couple of those trials done, and they haven't shown great results for ivermectin.

02:04:49.000 And is it the dosage that's recommended by the FLCC? Because that's what I've heard.

02:04:56.000 Here's my argument.

02:04:57.000 That's the pushback.

02:04:58.000 If the drug works, you're going to see an effect.

02:05:00.000 There may be an ideal dosing level, but if the drug broadly works...

02:05:05.000 Look, if you take antibiotics, if you have some nasty infection, you take antibiotics, you skip a day?

02:05:12.000 You know, you skip day six out of the 10 days or even day four and days eight or whatever, you're going to get infection cleared up.

02:05:19.000 If a drug broadly works, it works, okay?

02:05:22.000 And you can start to argue about, you know, the dosing wasn't perfect.

02:05:26.000 People have to make guesses going in.

02:05:28.000 And, you know, as far as I, and I have done some work on this, The people who conducted those trials discussed the correct dosing with some of the very big ivermectin advocates on the way in.

02:05:42.000 So they didn't get the results that the ivermectin people were hoping for, and now the advocates say that the trials weren't properly conducted.

02:05:53.000 What do you think about the assertion that it is prophylactic?

02:05:59.000 Viral replication in vitro was stopped by ivermectin, right?

02:06:05.000 So there's a mechanism.

02:06:07.000 You can stop viral replication in a test tube with a lot of things.

02:06:11.000 It doesn't mean it works in a human being.

02:06:16.000 I'm just broadly unconvinced.

02:06:20.000 Paxlovid, they ran a clinical trial, and it had very, very positive results.

02:06:27.000 We could find it, but zero deaths versus eight deaths in the unvaccinated, and a big decrease in hospitalizations.

02:06:35.000 What's the mechanism?

02:06:36.000 It's called a protease inhibitor.

02:06:38.000 This is well-known.

02:06:39.000 It blocks viral replication.

02:06:42.000 Okay.

02:06:43.000 And I know people have said, well, ivermectin is also a protease inhibitor.

02:06:48.000 But what's funny is that until Paxlovid came along, they weren't saying that was the mechanism of action for ivermectin.

02:06:55.000 But it still is.

02:06:57.000 Yeah, but they had a different theory before Paxlovid worked.

02:06:59.000 Did they have a different theory or did they have a different narrative?

02:07:03.000 Yeah.

02:07:04.000 I mean, I think in this case...

02:07:32.000 It seems to me bad faith that all of a sudden you say your drug is just like that other drug.

02:07:37.000 But is ivermectin a protease inhibitor?

02:07:40.000 I mean, people have said to me, look, here's this paper showing that it does have this effect as well.

02:07:49.000 Again, this is a level of complexity of sort of...

02:07:53.000 I would say virology complexity that I don't claim to be an expert.

02:07:57.000 I don't claim to be able to say, having read this paper, I can tell you that ivermectin works as well as a protease inhibitor as Paxlovid did and does.

02:08:08.000 What I can say, this is what I am good at, Joe, is saying, you guys are changing your story on this.

02:08:13.000 Yeah.

02:08:14.000 And that's what I say to anybody on any side.

02:08:18.000 Right, right.

02:08:19.000 You're very consistent.

02:08:21.000 So that's why I'm skeptical.

02:08:23.000 Now, the other argument about Paxlovid is, well, they tested in the unvaccinated.

02:08:29.000 They didn't test it in the vaccinated.

02:08:31.000 So how do we know it actually works in the vaccinated?

02:08:33.000 Right.

02:08:33.000 Well, there was a pretty good retrospective trial where they looked at two groups of people with Omicron.

02:08:40.000 And once again, they had very positive results for the Paxlovid group.

02:08:46.000 Now, if you want to say to me, you just said to me, that's not a good kind of trial to do.

02:08:51.000 You discounted all the positive ivermectin trials that had that kind of study where you go back and look instead of going in at the beginning and then measuring the two groups.

02:09:00.000 I will say to you, you're correct.

02:09:03.000 But what we don't have for ivermectin that we do have for pexlovin is a prospective trial with the same good results.

02:09:10.000 And is that just because they haven't been conducted?

02:09:13.000 No, no, no.

02:09:14.000 There's been ivermectin prospective trials.

02:09:17.000 This is the one we're talking about where they supposedly didn't use the right amount.

02:09:21.000 So at some point, you got to stop making excuses for your drug.

02:09:24.000 And here's what I say.

02:09:26.000 When people try to tell me Ivermectin works.

02:09:31.000 I know all these people who took ivermectin and didn't get sick.

02:09:34.000 My argument to you, and I say this about all these things, in most people, COVID is just not that dangerous.

02:09:41.000 I think I got in trouble because what I said was I could give you Alpo and you'd probably recover from COVID if you were healthy.

02:09:47.000 This is why you've got to test the vaccines in people that are high risk.

02:09:51.000 You've got to test...

02:10:04.000 I've seen recent articles that have started to promote this narrative that Trump is to blame because he fast tracked the COVID vaccines.

02:10:16.000 Which is really fascinating, because if the COVID vaccines were what you were reporting, not you, but what these people were reporting, that means it's safe and effective.

02:10:28.000 So why are you upset that he fast-tracked something that was proven to be safe and effective?

02:10:33.000 Yes.

02:10:34.000 See if you can find some of those articles, because it's just started to roll out.

02:10:38.000 And to me, that...

02:10:41.000 Knowing that the government did come in contact and even CNN came in contact with Twitter about you, I wonder what kind of influence is causing these new articles to be released.

02:10:55.000 Trump White House, this is on Politico.

02:10:57.000 Trump White House exerted pressure on FDA for COVID-19 emergency use authorization, House report fines.

02:11:05.000 Trump officials tried to bully FDA over COVID treatments, House panel says.

02:11:10.000 This is The Guardian.

02:11:11.000 So this is a recent narrative that it's one of those, you know, trusted news source initiative, weird things that you just, like, you realize that, okay, there's a signal.

02:11:23.000 Like, where's the signal coming from?

02:11:24.000 Right.

02:11:24.000 Is it that they're starting to realize they're going to just have to drop the idea that the vaccine's worked at all?

02:11:29.000 And who's to blame for that?

02:11:31.000 Right.

02:11:31.000 Yeah.

02:11:32.000 It's a good question.

02:11:33.000 I mean, I do wonder this fall, is anybody even get this booster?

02:11:38.000 I think a lot of people are going to get it.

02:11:39.000 Do you?

02:11:40.000 Sure.

02:11:40.000 There's a lot of people that are all in still.

02:11:42.000 Yeah.

02:11:42.000 There's people that are all in that I know that are all in.

02:11:45.000 I guess so.

02:11:46.000 Are any of them under 50?

02:11:48.000 Most of them are not.

02:11:49.000 Yeah, I think most of them are not.

02:11:51.000 You know, there's a thing of B cell and T cell immunity that's imparted by the vaccine that people find comfort in, right?

02:11:58.000 Yeah, yeah, that's a...

02:12:00.000 The really good research that's been done suggests that it doesn't...

02:12:06.000 The T-cells that you gain don't work very well against Omicron, which is another reason that I think that this notion that the vaccines give you any help against severe disease is nonsense.

02:12:18.000 And one of the things that you see, if you look at New Zealand and Australia, which are very interesting cases because those countries locked down hard, right?

02:12:28.000 New Zealand's a couple little islands.

02:12:31.000 Australia's a big, big island, continent-sized island.

02:12:35.000 They were able to control COVID for two years, right?

02:12:38.000 Really control it.

02:12:40.000 And so they had almost nobody who was infected.

02:12:43.000 You know, they were going to be the great success story.

02:12:46.000 The ones that showed how terrible Donald Trump was, how terrible I am.

02:12:50.000 They got through it with no deaths.

02:12:52.000 No deaths in 2020, almost no deaths in 2021. Then they got everybody vaccinated.

02:12:57.000 They win.

02:12:59.000 There's only one problem.

02:13:00.000 They've had terrible COVID outbreaks the last seven, eight months, basically continuing the whole time.

02:13:07.000 And bad in January, which is their summer.

02:13:10.000 Bad in May, June, July, August, their winter.

02:13:16.000 And a lot of deaths.

02:13:18.000 Now, not as many deaths as we had.

02:13:20.000 I mean, I'm talking about relative population.

02:13:22.000 Not as many deaths as we had at our peaks.

02:13:25.000 Not even close.

02:13:26.000 But this is Omicron.

02:13:27.000 Omicron is less virulent.

02:13:29.000 And it's gone on and on and on.

02:13:31.000 And they've had a bad flu outbreak.

02:13:33.000 And their hospitals have been pretty overwhelmed.

02:13:36.000 And their all-cause mortality has been terrible this year.

02:13:39.000 So if you want to tell me that they are the great success story, it doesn't look like it did a year ago.

02:13:47.000 It does not look like there's any free lunch.

02:13:49.000 It looks like you're going to get your COVID outbreak.

02:13:51.000 If you lock down hard, eventually you're going to have to let up and you're going to get COVID. It's very interesting.

02:13:58.000 Here's another fascinating thing that you never hear about.

02:14:01.000 Chinese, okay?

02:14:03.000 And we don't really know what's going on in China.

02:14:05.000 We never have...

02:14:07.000 And who knows if we ever will.

02:14:09.000 But they were first.

02:14:14.000 Then they got scared.

02:14:18.000 They locked down really hard.

02:14:20.000 They've been basically isolating themselves for two years.

02:14:25.000 Two things.

02:14:26.000 They have completely avoided the mRNA vaccines.

02:14:29.000 Completely.

02:14:30.000 They've had contracts to have those vaccines in their country for more than a year.

02:14:35.000 They've refused.

02:14:36.000 They haven't given anybody mRNA vaccines.

02:14:39.000 They, for whatever reason, are continuing to stick with this, to my mind, bizarre strategy of zero COVID. So, at some point, I mean, presumably, they're going to have to let it out.

02:14:53.000 And it will be very interesting to see what their experience is without the mRNAs. 1.00

02:14:58.000 Whether they have a lot of deaths, a few deaths, we will see.

02:15:03.000 As a journalist, what has this been like for you?

02:15:07.000 You were never involved in any real significant controversies about the things that you reported or data or you being called a grifter or promoter of misinformation and disinformation.

02:15:20.000 What has this been like for you?

02:15:22.000 It's been pretty great, actually.

02:15:26.000 The shitty part has been, you know, the personal stuff with my friends, and it hasn't been great for my marriage either, but as a reporter, it's been great in two ways.

02:15:34.000 First of all, first of all, I have all these great stories and no one else writes about them.

02:15:40.000 So I get to, I mean, it's like, it's like this is the most important story in the world and I'm coming at it and like there should be 15 people out there, good investigative reporters who are competing with me to break news about the vaccines and everything else.

02:15:52.000 And there's none.

02:15:54.000 So if you're a whistleblower, you've got some data from a health insurance company, you're coming to me.

02:16:01.000 You're a pilot, you want to talk about somebody who dropped dead in a cockpit, you're coming to me.

02:16:06.000 You've got nobody else.

02:16:07.000 And by the way, you folks, if you're out there, I'm very findable.

02:16:12.000 What is the data on pilots?

02:16:14.000 Because pilots are, that's a unique case, right? 0.97

02:16:18.000 Particularly like fighter jet pilots.

02:16:19.000 Well, so I don't know what the data is on fighter jet pilots.

02:16:22.000 I mean, and I'm...

02:16:24.000 Here's what I know.

02:16:25.000 A lot of pilots didn't want to get vaccinated last year, and a lot of them did under pressure.

02:16:30.000 And at least one major airline, disability claims are way up this year.

02:16:38.000 Now, from pilots, I mean.

02:16:40.000 Now listen, that may be because they're just sick of, you know, being screamed at by passengers or whatever, and they want out.

02:16:48.000 But it's certainly an interesting data point.

02:16:52.000 So, just to go back to the reporting question.

02:16:55.000 So, first off, I feel like I've got a great story and I have a big audience that's interested.

02:17:05.000 I mean, you know, it's not a Joe Rogan size audience, but it's a good audience.

02:17:08.000 And, you know, some of those people are willing to pay.

02:17:12.000 You know, my sub stack, most people who subscribe don't pay, but enough people pay that, you know, I'm doing well.

02:17:20.000 Which, by the way, I think is one other reason that a lot of people at the New York Times and elsewhere don't like me because, you know, the idea is if you ever leave the Times, you know, you're never going to be able to support yourself as a journalist.

02:17:31.000 And I've managed to do that pretty well.

02:17:33.000 So has Barry Weiss, so many others.

02:17:35.000 Yeah, Glenn, that's right.

02:17:36.000 It's a weird world now, right?

02:17:38.000 Because I think people are recognizing the influence that corporations have on information.

02:17:43.000 Yes.

02:17:43.000 And they don't like it.

02:17:44.000 No, they don't.

02:17:45.000 So far, Substack's been good.

02:17:47.000 Let's see.

02:17:48.000 Substack is fantastic.

02:17:49.000 Let's hope they can stay that way.

02:17:51.000 I think they can.

02:17:52.000 I mean, as long as they don't get bought out.

02:17:54.000 As long as they don't get bought out and as long as they can generate enough money from their 10% to support.

02:17:58.000 But they seem truly committed to free speech.

02:18:01.000 They do.

02:18:01.000 And I think that this also opens the door for similar platforms.

02:18:05.000 And there have been some copycat Substacks out there.

02:18:07.000 And I think that's great.

02:18:09.000 And by the way, I think the fact that Spotify supported you the way it did is very significant.

02:18:14.000 And, you know, and hopefully, you know, that's been to their benefit commercially, because you want that.

02:18:20.000 Well, during the height of the cancellation, I gained 2 million subscribers.

02:18:24.000 Wow!

02:18:24.000 See?

02:18:26.000 It was wild.

02:18:28.000 That's amazing.

02:18:29.000 I mean, really?

02:18:30.000 Yeah, it's pretty wild.

02:18:31.000 But fortunately, you know, they're not an American company.

02:18:35.000 Right.

02:18:36.000 Swedish, right?

02:18:37.000 Yeah.

02:18:38.000 So that's A, is that I have this great story to myself.

02:18:41.000 But B, and you may have had this experience too.

02:18:44.000 I was talking to somebody about this a few days ago.

02:18:46.000 So there's a reporter, I think his last name is Ryan, Ben Ryan.

02:18:51.000 And he's a science journalist, and he's gay, and he's been writing a lot about monkeypox.

02:18:58.000 And he's gotten kind of upset with the public health authorities.

02:19:02.000 You see it on Twitter.

02:19:04.000 He's, you know, why aren't you telling the truth?

02:19:07.000 Why aren't you telling gay men who are most at risk?

02:19:10.000 Didn't we learn anything from HIV? And he's gotten some pushback.

02:19:15.000 And what I was saying is what I think he has seen is what I've seen and maybe what you've seen.

02:19:22.000 If you are telling the truth, if you're doing your job, And you believe you're telling the truth and trying to get the word out on whatever the issue is.

02:19:30.000 And people start lying about you and attacking you personally and calling you a grifter.

02:19:37.000 It doesn't make you want to stop.

02:19:39.000 It makes you want to push.

02:19:42.000 Because it becomes personal.

02:19:45.000 You're attacking my skills.

02:19:48.000 You're attacking my integrity.

02:19:50.000 You're attacking my family in some cases.

02:19:53.000 I'm not backing off.

02:19:54.000 I know what I'm doing.

02:19:56.000 Look, right or wrong, and I think I've been pretty right, I've done this to the best of my ability for the last two years.

02:20:04.000 And I am not going to let somebody say, you know, I'm not going to let somebody intimidate me.

02:20:08.000 What have you been wrong about?

02:20:11.000 What have I been wrong about?

02:20:12.000 I've been wrong that...

02:20:16.000 The number one thing I was wrong about that I can remember is that in 2020, in the summer, I thought that we might be getting close to herd immunity.

02:20:25.000 I thought there was this possibility, because the waves seemed to come and go without everybody being infected, that there would be this sort of – people speculated there would be what was called cross-T cell immunity, that people who had been exposed to other coronaviruses couldn't get sick with SARS-CoV-2.

02:20:43.000 And that that's why, you know, in New York, there had been this big fall off in cases.

02:20:48.000 And that's why in the Sunbelt states, there was a big rise and a big fall.

02:20:52.000 That turned out not to be true.

02:20:54.000 Basically, everybody had to get infected with SARS-CoV-2, either the original or Delta or Omicron.

02:21:00.000 There's no cross immunity, it seems like.

02:21:02.000 What about the people that got vaccinated that never got it?

02:21:05.000 Oh, they'll get it.

02:21:06.000 I mean, there may be some fraction of people who've never got it, but I suspect almost everybody's gotten it at this point.

02:21:13.000 And if you think you didn't get it, you probably just didn't get symptoms.

02:21:16.000 There are people that I know that didn't think they got it, and we brought them in here because, you know, we do antibody testing here.

02:21:21.000 And did they...

02:21:22.000 They got it.

02:21:22.000 Yeah.

02:21:23.000 A lot of people got it.

02:21:23.000 So actually, the last time I was in here, I had still negative antibodies.

02:21:28.000 And I don't know that I've had it since then.

02:21:30.000 I haven't had a positive test.

02:21:32.000 I've really stopped testing myself, basically.

02:21:34.000 But I think it's possible if I had gotten an antibody test, it would show that I'm positive.

02:21:38.000 Everybody gets it.

02:21:40.000 Yeah.

02:21:40.000 So I was wrong about that.

02:21:43.000 Yeah.

02:21:46.000 I mean, I publicly said I thought 600,000 people would die.

02:21:49.000 We're at a million now.

02:21:51.000 I mean, 600,000, when I put it out there, that was considered a big number.

02:21:55.000 So, was I wrong?

02:21:57.000 Yeah, I was wrong.

02:21:57.000 I don't know how many people predicted a million.

02:21:59.000 And when they say died, With versus from, the whole thing. 0.66

02:22:03.000 What is the actual number?

02:22:05.000 When you take away people that are already on death's door, when you take away people that are already morbidly obese, I think amongst the people that died, there was a significant number, like a huge number, that had at least four comorbidities, right?

02:22:19.000 What was that number?

02:22:22.000 I want to say the average number was four, so it would be at least half.

02:22:25.000 Right, but what was the percentage of people who died from COVID that had four comorbidities?

02:22:30.000 So over 50% of those.

02:22:32.000 So in other words, of the million who died, if you look at the comorbidities, I think at least half of those had four or more comorbidities.

02:22:39.000 Which means, comorbidities means things that were killing you already.

02:22:43.000 Yeah, you know...

02:22:44.000 Comorbidities.

02:22:45.000 Yes.

02:22:45.000 They're morbidities.

02:22:46.000 Yes.

02:22:47.000 But it's not necessarily going to kill you tomorrow.

02:22:49.000 So you can be 400 pounds and live another 10 years.

02:22:51.000 But you're significantly weakened.

02:22:53.000 Yes.

02:22:54.000 So look, there was a group of people who have COVID on their death certificates who didn't die from COVID, right?

02:23:00.000 Right.

02:23:01.000 Then there's this bigger group of people who were in this group, who wouldn't have died today if they didn't have COVID, but who weren't very healthy.

02:23:11.000 And how many of those people were there?

02:23:13.000 There were, I mean, a lot, but those are still people who died from COVID, you would say, I think.

02:23:22.000 But here's what's so screwed up about the excess mortality.

02:23:25.000 I know I keep coming back to this, and I know it's sort of complicated and mushy.

02:23:31.000 In 2020, in early 2021, the people who were looking at the numbers the hardest were all saying the same thing, which was, okay, we got all these people dying.

02:23:42.000 COVID's going to go away and we're going to have fewer deaths for a while because COVID pulled forward.

02:23:49.000 They actually referred to it.

02:23:51.000 There's a company called Service Corporation of America.

02:23:53.000 It's the biggest funeral home operator.

02:23:55.000 They own like 15% of funeral homes in the United States.

02:23:59.000 They call it pull forward.

02:24:01.000 What they were talking about was pulling death forward.

02:24:03.000 So, COVID was killing people who were going to die in 2022 in 2020. You were going to die in 2021. COVID killed you in 2020. So, they were actually sort of warning their investors, we're getting more funerals now.

02:24:19.000 We're going to get fewer funerals later.

02:24:22.000 That didn't happen.

02:24:24.000 We have excess deaths now, even though people predicted we would have fewer deaths now.

02:24:32.000 What do you think is causing the excess deaths?

02:24:34.000 I think it's some problem with the vaccines, okay?

02:24:37.000 I don't know more than that.

02:24:39.000 But to me, the most likely...

02:24:43.000 The reason is the billion people we gave this technology to.

02:24:46.000 And if you look at 10% increase in all-cause mortality, what are the numbers we're looking at nationally?

02:24:51.000 It's several hundred thousand people in the US, several hundred thousand people a year in Europe.

02:24:55.000 I mean, it's a big number.

02:24:57.000 And has this been consistent?

02:24:59.000 Has it dropped off?

02:25:01.000 So, last fall was a big increase.

02:25:04.000 Now, it's interesting.

02:25:05.000 So, the better data, again, comes out of Europe.

02:25:07.000 Because, among other things, Europe doesn't have a terrible opioid epidemic, so the numbers are cleaner.

02:25:12.000 So last fall in Europe, UK, Germany, they were having big increases in mortality, some of which was COVID, some of which was not.

02:25:19.000 That was about three months.

02:25:23.000 It started about three months after the mass vaccination campaigns.

02:25:26.000 It was increase in deaths in cancer, increase in deaths in Alzheimer's, sort of broad, broad, not huge in each category, but broad.

02:25:38.000 Come the winter, That increase went away.

02:25:44.000 For just a couple months, we had zero extra all-cause mortality in these countries.

02:25:49.000 And I thought to myself, this is good.

02:25:50.000 Whatever was happening, it went away.

02:25:54.000 What else happened in the winter?

02:25:55.000 Well, they pushed the boosters.

02:25:57.000 They had widespread booster campaigns.

02:26:00.000 About three months after those booster campaigns, all-cause mortality started to rise again.

02:26:06.000 And that was sort of in March and April.

02:26:09.000 And it has not come down since.

02:26:11.000 We're now five, six months in.

02:26:13.000 So again, this is non-COVID. These countries, just like the U.S., still have COVID deaths.

02:26:19.000 Nobody talks about it anymore because it's inconvenient.

02:26:22.000 They still have plenty of COVID deaths.

02:26:23.000 Even when you factor those out, they have all-cause mortality.

02:26:30.000 Above normal on COVID deaths and 5% to 10% additionally above normal on other deaths.

02:26:36.000 So they're running about 15% above normal on all-cause mortality, which in a country like the United States, 400,000 or 500,000 deaths a year.

02:26:46.000 Across Europe, about the same number.

02:26:48.000 So you add those up, you get close to a million.

02:26:50.000 A million here, a million there, you know.

02:26:54.000 Is there any legitimate reporting other than people like yourself that are independent?

02:27:00.000 So the British, a couple British newspapers have started to note this.

02:27:05.000 Now, what they mainly say is it looks like this is lockdown related.

02:27:08.000 So again, there's this theory, people didn't get medical care, so now you're seeing an increase.

02:27:14.000 And, you know, other people, a little more speculative, they'll say long COVID. So there's been a couple places that have talked about it.

02:27:23.000 My impression is that this is so unpleasant to even consider that nobody wants to consider it.

02:27:30.000 You can't get unvaccinated, Joe.

02:27:32.000 You're just living with whatever it is.

02:27:34.000 And I also want to be clear, even if it's a million people, We gave all the COVID vaccines worldwide to billions of people.

02:27:45.000 We gave these mRNAs to a billion people. 0.72

02:27:48.000 So it could be a very small...

02:27:52.000 Absolute increase per person in your risk still leading to a lot of deaths just because so many people got it.

02:27:59.000 What is the relationship between the mRNA vaccines versus the adenovirus vaccines?

02:28:04.000 They're just completely different.

02:28:06.000 Right, but I mean in terms of like all-cause mortality, in terms of health complications.

02:28:10.000 So the AAVs, actually, by the way, look a little bit better now against COVID. It looks like they, like, interestingly, if you got one dose of J&J, your protection wasn't as great initially, but it looks like it lasts longer.

02:28:26.000 They kind of look like better vaccines as vaccines.

02:28:30.000 They definitely can cause what's called thromboembolic events.

02:28:35.000 They can cause nasty, nasty clots in people that lead to strokes.

02:28:40.000 You know, this is another great question that if we had a real investigative reporting community would be asked.

02:28:46.000 Somehow, for reasons that are not clear to me, the mRNAs won.

02:28:52.000 Okay?

02:28:53.000 They won commercially.

02:28:54.000 They won in public view.

02:28:57.000 Normally...

02:28:59.000 Public health authorities wouldn't take a strong position on one vaccine versus another, but they did in this case.

02:29:06.000 You basically can't get J&J anymore in the U.S., and you can't really get the AstraZeneca vaccine in Europe.

02:29:13.000 Well, they pulled the J&J vaccine.

02:29:15.000 They basically pulled it.

02:29:17.000 This is, by the way, right in the same time period that I was going to get vaccinated.

02:29:21.000 Yes, it was back in April of last year.

02:29:23.000 Now, it is not clear to me at all that the overall safety profile of the DNA vaccines is worse than the mRNA.

02:29:32.000 But for some reason, a decision was made inside the governments and inside the public health authorities.

02:29:39.000 We're going to lean on the mRNAs. 0.98

02:29:42.000 Now, you said DNA versus mRNA?

02:29:45.000 Yes.

02:29:45.000 So the adenovirus vaccine is a DNA? That's right.

02:29:50.000 Or is it adenovirus, is that how you say it?

02:29:53.000 Adenovirus, yes.

02:29:54.000 So what it is is it delivers DNA to your cells, this virus.

02:30:00.000 It's a cold virus.

02:30:01.000 It delivers it to your cells.

02:30:02.000 Your cells process that DNA into RNA, actually, and then cause your body to produce the spike.

02:30:10.000 So whereas the mRNA is a little bit of this mRNA, which is actually not the same RNA that's in nature.

02:30:18.000 It's been modified in a specific way.

02:30:22.000 That's inside a tiny little ball of fat.

02:30:26.000 That then delivers that RNA to your cells that causes you to make the spike.

02:30:31.000 The outcome is the same in both.

02:30:33.000 Both the DNA and the mRNA vaccines cause your body to make the spike protein.

02:30:41.000 That was the great...

02:30:42.000 Innovation.

02:30:43.000 We're going to turn your body into a little cell or into a little factory to make the spike protein. 1.00

02:30:50.000 The Novavax vaccine, by the way, is actually just them injecting the spike protein into you.

02:30:56.000 And then the other vaccines are more old school, where it's basically just the virus itself that's been changed so it doesn't replicate, and that's injected in.

02:31:06.000 And which viruses, or excuse me, which vaccines are those?

02:31:09.000 Those are not allowed.

02:31:10.000 They're not used in the US. They're the Chinese and the Indian vaccines.

02:31:14.000 Which have actually been given to more people worldwide than the more advanced, quote unquote, advanced vaccines.

02:31:20.000 And why are they not allowed in the United States?

02:31:23.000 That's a really good question, Joe.

02:31:25.000 They were never tested here.

02:31:28.000 The argument was basically that the mRNAs would be better, that they would cause your body to have a stronger immune response.

02:31:38.000 And, you know, inactivated flu vaccines don't work very well.

02:31:44.000 And the belief was that the same would be true for the coronavirus.

02:31:47.000 So we're just going to go with this new, better technology.

02:31:51.000 But you ask a very good question.

02:31:53.000 Why haven't we even looked at those?

02:31:56.000 Yeah.

02:31:58.000 The Novavax, is that the new one?

02:32:00.000 Yes.

02:32:01.000 The Novavax, which nobody...

02:32:02.000 It's a proof, but nobody's...

02:32:03.000 I mean, Novavax stock actually crashed a few weeks ago because they basically acknowledged nobody was using it.

02:32:09.000 And why do you think that is?

02:32:11.000 Well, nobody wants to get...

02:32:12.000 I mean, anybody who's going to be vaccinated has been vaccinated at this point.

02:32:17.000 There's not a big audience.

02:32:19.000 And, you know, it's funny.

02:32:21.000 Every, I would say, I guess a few times a week, I get emails from people that are like, hey, can you tell me about Novavax?

02:32:27.000 And I'm sort of like, I don't have time to talk about this because nobody's getting it.

02:32:31.000 The public health authorities...

02:32:34.000 They don't want Novavax.

02:32:35.000 They don't want the J&J or AstraZeneca.

02:32:38.000 They certainly don't want Covaxin or the Chinese vaccines.

02:32:42.000 They want you to get mRNAs.

02:32:44.000 And look, I think it should be clear to everybody at this point, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I would love to know, I would love to be a fly on the wall when Pfizer is talking to the NIH about why that is.

02:33:00.000 Do you think that any of this was done in good faith?

02:33:03.000 Do you think that they believed the data?

02:33:05.000 Do you think that they believed that this was going to be the panacea to everybody?

02:33:11.000 I think they hoped it.

02:33:14.000 I think that they got fooled by the clinical trial data in November and December of 2020, and then they got fooled, as you said, by the Israeli data and the British data in the spring.

02:33:28.000 If you look at what Fauci said, what Walensky said, I mean, what they said wasn't that different than what our friend Rachel Maddow said.

02:33:35.000 You know, like, Fauci was talking about elimination of the virus.

02:33:41.000 And they were all talking about herd immunity. 0.99

02:33:44.000 And that's just a remarkably stupid thing to have said in the light of what happened. 1.00

02:33:49.000 There's a few things that he said that were remarkably stupid. 1.00

02:33:53.000 One of the things that he said is that lockdowns are designed to increase vaccination. 1.00

02:34:00.000 Yeah.

02:34:01.000 Which is just- Did he say that?

02:34:02.000 Yeah, he did.

02:34:03.000 He said the quiet part out loud.

02:34:05.000 I missed that.

02:34:07.000 Yeah.

02:34:08.000 I mean, a lot of what they did was, right?

02:34:10.000 So like with the, you know, when the Canadians wouldn't, I mean, you know, Canada's a bigger country than the United States, they wouldn't let unvaccinated people on planes.

02:34:18.000 They were clearly trying to punish those of us who are unvaccinated, force us to do this.

02:34:24.000 It's wrong.

02:34:25.000 Yeah, it's also wild how many of them wound up getting COVID. They all got COVID! It's wild.

02:34:31.000 Biden got it twice.

02:34:32.000 Jill Biden's got it.

02:34:34.000 Fauci got it.

02:34:34.000 Everyone got it.

02:34:35.000 Did you see that Birx said that she knew that the vaccines were not going to stop the spread of the virus?

02:34:41.000 Yeah, it's funny because that's not what she said two years ago.

02:34:44.000 But it's wild that she said it.

02:34:45.000 Why do you think she said that?

02:34:48.000 I talked to somebody who...

02:34:50.000 Who knows her? 0.99

02:34:51.000 And he said he thought she wanted to be right about something.

02:34:55.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

02:34:58.000 Jesus Christ.

02:35:01.000 I know we joked around about you being vindicated, but you are, you have been.

02:35:08.000 Is this a net good, do you think, that people like you exist and that...

02:35:14.000 You're going to ask me if I think it's good, I think?

02:35:16.000 Yeah, but you know what I'm saying?

02:35:18.000 You're a courageous guy in a lot of ways.

02:35:20.000 What you did, you talked about the personal cost of this in terms of relationships that you've had, and I know the attacks aren't fun.

02:35:29.000 Yeah, I mean, look, I think it's, you know, if somebody, this got taken out of context, I said it, maybe I said it to you last year, but even if I were wrong about all of it, it would be good that there's somebody on the red team, right?

02:35:43.000 It'd be good that there's somebody raising these questions.

02:35:47.000 From the point of view of society, it would be better if I were wrong about all of it.

02:35:50.000 It would be better if we had no COVID right now and the vaccines actually worked.

02:35:54.000 And I were saying to you, you know what, Joe?

02:35:56.000 I was wrong.

02:35:57.000 I'm going to end this show by going to the vaccine clinic and getting a vaccine.

02:36:01.000 Instead, I feel one of the best decisions I've ever made is not being vaccinated.

02:36:06.000 You know, with this vaccine, okay?

02:36:08.000 I got all the normal childhood vaccines.

02:36:12.000 I think it's really bad...

02:36:16.000 That journalists have lost their skepticism about either tech or the pharmaceutical industry.

02:36:21.000 I don't understand.

02:36:23.000 I don't understand.

02:36:25.000 Yeah, it's bizarre.

02:36:26.000 It's bizarre to watch because these are the people that are supposed to be uncovering corruption and undue influence and following the money and they just didn't do it.

02:36:37.000 They got captured.

02:36:39.000 These are the biggest, most profitable pharmaceutical products ever made.

02:36:43.000 They're some of the most profitable products made in history.

02:36:47.000 And here's another thing, by the way.

02:36:50.000 The penny may drop in 2026, 2027. It'll be nice to see the first journals asking why there's no other mRNA product.

02:37:00.000 Approved.

02:37:01.000 Which I will bet you there isn't at that time.

02:37:04.000 I mean, you know what?

02:37:04.000 That's something I could be wrong about in five years.

02:37:07.000 But...

02:37:07.000 Well, they've talked about using it for cancer.

02:37:09.000 Oh, yeah.

02:37:10.000 But guess what?

02:37:11.000 It's really hard to use multiple doses.

02:37:14.000 And it doesn't...

02:37:15.000 I'm talking about...

02:37:16.000 I'm actually talking about a vaccine.

02:37:17.000 There's a flu vaccine or Ebola vaccine or, you know, dengue vaccine.

02:37:22.000 I think...

02:37:24.000 I think it's going to be very hard to prove mRNAs under a normal development process because the side effects are too complex.

02:37:34.000 But that's all right.

02:37:35.000 We gave it to a billion people.

02:37:36.000 We did our best.

02:37:39.000 What a strange time to be alive.

02:37:41.000 And as a journalist, this must be almost kind of bittersweet, right?

02:37:45.000 Because what you do is chase these kind of stories.

02:37:48.000 I mean, these kind of stories can make or break a journalist's career.

02:37:52.000 I mean, I guess it's both made and broken mind.

02:37:55.000 I ain't going back to the New York Times.

02:37:57.000 I don't think you need to.

02:37:59.000 And I think the rise of independent journalism, and that's one of the reasons why I praise Substack so much, and giving people like yourself and other independent voices who are legitimate journalists who do the work and really are chasing down the truth of the story and not this culturally convenient narrative.

02:38:19.000 But they're pushing back.

02:38:22.000 These folks would get me banned again on Twitter tomorrow if they could.

02:38:29.000 But they can't.

02:38:30.000 But the thing is, what you're saying is accurate, which is so crazy.

02:38:34.000 They shouldn't want to ban you.

02:38:36.000 They shouldn't, but they won't even write!

02:38:38.000 You don't want to write that I survived my motion to dismiss back in April.

02:38:44.000 You don't want to write even that Twitter put me back on, which is a pretty big deal. 0.98

02:38:48.000 It's a fucking huge deal. 0.93

02:38:49.000 Did anybody write about it? 0.99

02:38:51.000 No one.

02:38:52.000 Washington Post?

02:38:53.000 No one?

02:38:53.000 No.

02:38:54.000 Okay.

02:38:54.000 You don't want to write about that.

02:38:55.000 You think that's...

02:38:56.000 He's just one schmo with 300,000 followers. 0.98

02:38:59.000 We're not going to write about it.

02:39:00.000 Two weeks ago, Joe...

02:39:02.000 Maybe we should pull it up so people could see it for themselves.

02:39:05.000 Two weeks ago, on my stack, I published, in black and white, Twitter employees, what they said about what the White House had told them to do.

02:39:17.000 Okay?

02:39:18.000 It is about as clear...

02:39:21.000 Yeah, this one.

02:39:22.000 The White House privately demanded Twitter ban me months before the company did so.

02:39:28.000 Federal officials targeted me specifically when they met with Twitter in 2021. They really wanted to know about Alex Ferguson.

02:39:34.000 Go down and you'll see what they said.

02:39:37.000 There it is.

02:39:38.000 There it is.

02:39:39.000 How was WH? That next thing is just an emoji.

02:39:46.000 Overall, pretty good.

02:39:47.000 They had one really tough question about why Alex Berenson hasn't been kicked off the platform.

02:39:52.000 Otherwise, their questions were pointed but fair, and mercifully we had answers.

02:39:56.000 Mercifully.

02:39:57.000 Mercifully!

02:39:57.000 By the way, that's not the comment of somebody who's confident that they can stand up to the White House.

02:40:04.000 They're saying we are lucky we had answers.

02:40:07.000 Here's another one.

02:40:09.000 High level takeaways from the meeting.

02:40:12.000 Anything we should keep an eye out for.

02:40:13.000 They really wanted to know about Alex Berenson.

02:40:18.000 All right.

02:40:18.000 Andy Slavitt suggested they had seen data viz that had showed he was the epicenter of disinfo that radiated outwards to the persuadable public.

02:40:28.000 That's right.

02:40:31.000 At the time, employees said internally they did not believe I had broken the company's rules.

02:40:36.000 I've taken a pretty close look at his account and I don't think any of it's violative, said an employee wrote on the Slack conversation a few minutes after the really tough question about why Alex Berenson hadn't been kicked off.

02:40:50.000 That's right.

02:40:50.000 So you try to imagine if the Trump White House had done that to a journalist at the New York Times, okay?

02:40:57.000 I mean, it would be front page news for days.

02:41:01.000 They won't even write one story about this.

02:41:05.000 That's how much they hate me.

02:41:10.000 Yeah, well, you're inconvenient.

02:41:14.000 Journalists are supposed to be inconvenient to the powers that be when the powers that be are not doing what they're saying they're doing and that are withholding information or are being unduly influenced by massive amounts of money.

02:41:27.000 That's right.

02:41:27.000 And also their initial choices.

02:41:30.000 Yep.

02:41:31.000 We're supposed to be inconvenient.

02:41:33.000 That's right.

02:41:34.000 What's next for you?

02:41:36.000 How is this book selling?

02:41:38.000 It's available now.

02:41:39.000 It's available now.

02:41:40.000 It's everywhere.

02:41:41.000 It's a legitimate publisher.

02:41:43.000 How hard was that, by the way?

02:41:44.000 We talked about that last time, but it bears repeating.

02:41:46.000 So it's Regnery, which is a real publisher, but conservative.

02:41:50.000 They actually want me to write another book, which I would love to do.

02:41:53.000 I don't have time right now.

02:41:55.000 It's about how screwed up teenagers are these days, and whether it's ADHD drugs, or whether it's I think?

02:42:23.000 And this is sort of what we tell our kids, right?

02:42:26.000 Like, we can make everything perfect for you.

02:42:28.000 There's a pill for this.

02:42:30.000 Hey, you don't like your gender?

02:42:31.000 We'll just change it for you.

02:42:33.000 You know, you don't have to be anxious.

02:42:35.000 And unfortunately, that's a lie.

02:42:37.000 And when they realize it's a lie, it makes them more anxious.

02:42:41.000 So that's a book Regnery wants me to write.

02:42:43.000 But no, you know, Simon& Schuster or Putnam, all these places that publish my earlier books and my novels, I don't think they're going to publish anything for me anymore.

02:42:53.000 I am outside the mainstream media.

02:42:56.000 Do you think that's permanent?

02:42:58.000 I do.

02:42:59.000 Some of this vindication, though, has to open people's eyes.

02:43:03.000 It would be better if I had been wrong.

02:43:04.000 If I had been wrong, I could apologize and ask to be forgiven.

02:43:08.000 Wow.

02:43:10.000 I'm pretty sure.

02:43:11.000 Other people say to me it's not permanent.

02:43:12.000 I think it's permanent.

02:43:13.000 So you just resigned to this independent life.

02:43:17.000 I got the stack.

02:43:19.000 You're doing great.

02:43:20.000 I get to come on with you once a year.

02:43:21.000 I got a publisher who can put out a pretty good-looking book and hardcover.

02:43:26.000 I'm okay.

02:43:28.000 Do they carry these at Barnes& Noble in the front when you walked in at the airport?

02:43:32.000 They couldn't get much distribution at BNN, but they did get a little bit.

02:43:38.000 You know, it didn't get reviewed.

02:43:39.000 All those places refused to review.

02:43:41.000 Even, so there's, I don't know, have you written a book?

02:43:44.000 No.

02:43:45.000 One day you'll write your memoirs, and there's something called these pre-pump places.

02:43:49.000 There's Kirkus, Publishers Weekly.

02:43:51.000 They review everything.

02:43:52.000 That's just what they do.

02:43:54.000 They wouldn't review it.

02:43:55.000 I mean, I'm lucky in a way.

02:43:58.000 I don't live in Brooklyn.

02:43:59.000 I don't live in Manhattan.

02:44:00.000 I live in upstate with my family.

02:44:03.000 Our life is our life.

02:44:06.000 But, I mean, I've been shut out personally and professionally from the people who should be my peers.

02:44:13.000 I guess they're not.

02:44:15.000 But you must have gotten some support from people.

02:44:19.000 Very little.

02:44:20.000 Much more support from people like cops or pilots.

02:44:24.000 Yeah.

02:44:24.000 No.

02:44:25.000 People, you know, inside journalism, people say to me, oh, you must have a lot of people contacting you quietly from the Times and elsewhere.

02:44:34.000 Not really.

02:44:35.000 Not really.

02:44:36.000 Not really.

02:44:37.000 Really?

02:44:38.000 Yeah.

02:44:38.000 Well, I'm not surprised about The Times.

02:44:40.000 The Times is strange.

02:44:42.000 It's captivated by our current culture in a weird way that I don't think I've ever seen before.

02:44:49.000 I never thought I would see.

02:44:50.000 I thought that the ethics of journalism was always supposed to be objective analysis of data, and if it's inconvenient and uncomfortable for people, that's sort of the point.

02:45:02.000 Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

02:45:04.000 Yep.

02:45:07.000 It turns out it's comfort the Democrats and afflict the Republicans.

02:45:11.000 Yeah.

02:45:11.000 Which is not- Are you a Democrat?

02:45:13.000 Are you independent?

02:45:14.000 What are you?

02:45:14.000 I'm an independent.

02:45:15.000 And as I say in pandemia, I didn't vote for Biden and I didn't vote for Trump.

02:45:19.000 Yeah.

02:45:20.000 Nor did I. I mean, yeah.

02:45:22.000 I mean, given everything that's happened, how do you feel bad about that decision?

02:45:27.000 No.

02:45:28.000 No, everything I said was true.

02:45:30.000 The thing that I said when, you know, I got famously canceled when I had Eric Weinstein on the podcast and he said, I can't vote for Biden.

02:45:40.000 I just can't.

02:45:41.000 And he was like, I can't vote for Trump.

02:45:42.000 And I said, I would vote for Trump before I'd vote for Biden.

02:45:45.000 I didn't vote for either.

02:45:46.000 But I said that because I realized that Biden was...

02:45:50.000 He's deteriorating in front of our eyes, and to deny that was crazy.

02:45:54.000 And now that we're seeing it, we're seeing him fall down walking upstairs, we're seeing him ramble on in these run-on conversations, forget where he is, come off stage, try to shake hands with people who aren't there.

02:46:07.000 There's something really, really wrong.

02:46:10.000 And if he was Trump, they would be on the top of every building with bullhorns, screaming to remove him from office.

02:46:18.000 And these people are all blacking out from all the gaslighting.

02:46:21.000 It's wild to watch.

02:46:24.000 If it's Trump versus Biden in 2024, are you going to vote?

02:46:30.000 I think I'd still vote independent.

02:46:33.000 I really wish there was an independent option.

02:46:35.000 I think that the problem is human nature tends towards tribalism, and we have these people on one side that think that Trump is the devil and that having him in place, regardless of whether or not his economic policies were more effective, that Trump is bad for our culture and bad for society and divides us.

02:46:54.000 I think they're right though, aren't they?

02:46:56.000 Yes, yes, and that's what I've said, and that's why I didn't want to have him on.

02:47:01.000 I don't want to support that.

02:47:03.000 I don't think that's good for people.

02:47:05.000 I don't think that's good for our culture.

02:47:06.000 Do you think you'd be able to challenge him?

02:47:08.000 I wonder if you actually had him for two hours.

02:47:10.000 I'd have to have him for six.

02:47:11.000 Yeah.

02:47:12.000 I'd have to wait for the Adderall to wear off.

02:47:16.000 I don't know if he's on Adorama.

02:47:17.000 I'm kidding, Donald.

02:47:18.000 Don't sue me.

02:47:21.000 I think, unfortunately, I'd probably have fun with him.

02:47:26.000 He's a funny guy. 1.00

02:47:27.000 He says some wild shit. 1.00

02:47:29.000 He's a bombastic, huge character. 1.00

02:47:32.000 And I think people would probably get a chance to see a side of him, a fucking around side, that they would like. 0.95

02:47:39.000 I don't know if it would be the worst thing in the world if you had him on. 0.94

02:47:42.000 It probably wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

02:47:44.000 I just don't want to be involved in that.

02:47:47.000 I don't want to be involved in helping political figures.

02:47:50.000 I think Tulsi Gabbard should be president.

02:47:53.000 She's the only one that makes any sense to me.

02:47:54.000 I think she's a powerful, independent voice who speaks her mind on a variety of subjects and makes a lot of sense, exhibits real leadership capability. 0.95

02:48:04.000 She's a little crazy, is she not? 0.99

02:48:08.000 In what way? 0.99

02:48:09.000 Well, that's a good question.

02:48:10.000 That's a great narrative, right?

02:48:12.000 But I'm crazy, too.

02:48:13.000 I mean, you're right.

02:48:14.000 When you actually say that to me, I actually realize I don't know very much about her, ultimately.

02:48:17.000 Yeah.

02:48:17.000 The problem is that's what people like to say.

02:48:19.000 I think she's a woman of character, and I think it's everything that everybody wants.

02:48:23.000 You want a woman president, you got one. 1.00

02:48:24.000 You want a woman of noble character who displays excellent leadership capability, you got one. 1.00

02:48:29.000 You got someone who reaches across the aisle and communicates to people on both sides, you got one.

02:48:34.000 You got someone who served overseas twice. 0.99

02:48:39.000 And she was in these medical units helping people that were blown up from the fucking war. 0.95

02:48:44.000 I mean, that's why she has that grey streak in her hair. 0.99

02:48:47.000 She got that grey streak when she was serving overseas.

02:48:51.000 You got a person who exposes, on her side, corruption and evil acts of politicians.

02:49:03.000 One of them that's now the Vice President of the United States.

02:49:05.000 You know, I don't think there's a better person out there to run for president than her. 1.00

02:49:11.000 And a person that's loved by people on the right as well.

02:49:14.000 I mean, she is a longtime Democrat.

02:49:17.000 But, you know, she's a person who substitutes for Tucker Carlson when he's out of town, which is wild.

02:49:22.000 Fair enough!

02:49:23.000 But they don't want her.

02:49:24.000 No, that's definitely.

02:49:26.000 Which is wild, because she's a woman of color, right? 1.00

02:49:29.000 She's from Hawaii. 1.00

02:49:30.000 She's got all the things that supposedly you're looking for if you want diversity. 0.51

02:49:36.000 All the things.

02:49:37.000 I mean, she could be our first woman president. 1.00

02:49:40.000 Interesting.

02:49:41.000 See, I don't know, really, as I hear you say, I realize I know almost nothing about That's the problem is that everybody has this thing in their head, oh, Tulsi Gabbard's crazy. 0.94

02:49:49.000 Okay, why?

02:49:50.000 Why is she crazy? 1.00

02:49:51.000 And wouldn't you be crazy if you were her? 0.76

02:49:53.000 Wouldn't you be crazy if you've experienced what she's experienced?

02:49:56.000 Just how the DNC tried to shut her out and wouldn't let her debate?

02:50:01.000 Well, one thing I think that you've managed to avoid, and I'd like to think I've managed to avoid, is getting too angry.

02:50:07.000 And by the way, I'm not saying this about Tulsi Gabbard.

02:50:09.000 I see it with, just from the outside, I don't know him at all, with Glenn Greenwald, that I feel he's gotten really angry.

02:50:15.000 At sort of the establishment.

02:50:17.000 And now maybe he's acting in ways that don't help him long term.

02:50:22.000 How so?

02:50:22.000 Well, I think the thing with Alex Jones...

02:50:24.000 I mean, you and I may disagree about Alex Jones.

02:50:26.000 I just think Alex Jones is a bad guy.

02:50:28.000 I think what he said about the Sandy Hook stuff was pretty unforgivable.

02:50:37.000 I don't know what happened there.

02:50:39.000 I'm not aware of that.

02:50:50.000 Interviewed him about it and said basically something like, I'm not here to really push you about Sandy Hook.

02:50:56.000 I may have the language wrong.

02:50:58.000 I don't want to say exactly what he said.

02:50:59.000 But my impression was that he certainly didn't challenge him in the way that was proper for a journalist to...

02:51:07.000 You know, maybe I have a visceral reaction to Sandy Hook because we live, you know, like 15 minutes away from there on the other side of the Connecticut, you know, on the New York side of the border.

02:51:20.000 But, like, that happened, okay?

02:51:22.000 And it's pretty terrible to have done what Alex Jones did about that.

02:51:27.000 I think it's terrible that he said it and I think he thinks it's terrible that he said it and I think he was also going through a mental health breakdown and You know Alex has had problems in the past with substances and he's had problems with he He's a guy who had significant head trauma when he was younger.

02:51:47.000 And I attribute that to some of the issues that he has.

02:51:52.000 And I think excess drinking also attributed...

02:51:55.000 And it's also the fact that he keeps finding things that are true.

02:51:58.000 Right.

02:51:59.000 The problem is you find things that are true and you're alone.

02:52:02.000 And that's what I think Alex was.

02:52:04.000 He was alone.

02:52:05.000 You know, Alex, when I first met him, was a guy who was showing up at George Bush rallies.

02:52:09.000 And calling him a criminal.

02:52:11.000 And this is when Bush was running for president.

02:52:14.000 And that's when I, at first, was aware of him.

02:52:17.000 This is when he was protesting against what they were doing with the World Trade Organization, where they were stopping any kind of dissent where you couldn't even have a WTO badge on your backpack with a line through it and go and cross these lines.

02:52:33.000 This was in Seattle back...

02:52:35.000 Yes.

02:52:35.000 And he also was the first to expose the agent provocateurs and that they use government agents to smash buildings and light things on fire so they could say this is not a peaceful protest and then they could go in with force and stop the protests.

02:52:48.000 He exposed a lot of things that are true.

02:52:50.000 He told me about Epstein's Island. 0.99

02:52:52.000 When I thought that was the craziest fucking thing I'd ever heard from him. 0.99

02:52:55.000 100% true, of course. 0.99

02:52:57.000 100% true. 1.00

02:52:58.000 You know, when someone like him tells you there's an island that they take influential people and they have sex with underage people, you'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about?

02:53:06.000 And then if you told me years later that the guy, Epstein, would, first of all, go to jail for doing that very thing, for having sex with underage people, Then, still be able to court people like Bill Gates and be able to have them and travel with them and go places with them and then years later he would be suicided in some way where all the cameras stopped working and no one ever got brought to justice for it in any significant way and

02:53:36.000 that years after that Ghislaine Maxwell would be arrested, that she would be tried, that she'd be convicted and that the list of the people That engaged in this illegal activity would never be released. 0.97

02:53:49.000 I would say that is a banana republic bullshit thing. 0.89

02:53:52.000 That's not going to happen in the United States of America. 0.98

02:53:54.000 People are going to be brought to justice.

02:53:56.000 I don't care how powerful they are.

02:53:58.000 But that's not the case.

02:53:59.000 No, that's basically accurate.

02:54:01.000 This is why Alex went crazy.

02:54:03.000 And by the way...

02:54:04.000 It's true.

02:54:05.000 I'm thinking, like, we've never had a report on the—right?

02:54:08.000 Has there ever been a sort of government—any kind of independent report on what happened to Maxwell or to Epstein in the prison?

02:54:16.000 Well, no, other than that one guy, Michael Baden, who was an autopsy specialist.

02:54:24.000 The guy was in the autopsy show on HBO who reviewed the case.

02:54:28.000 And said that his injuries were indicative of someone who was strangled.

02:54:32.000 Not indicative of someone who hung himself.

02:54:35.000 Yeah, fair enough.

02:54:37.000 I mean, yes.

02:54:39.000 I can...

02:54:42.000 I mean, where we sort of started this whole line of conversation is, like, you've got to know that stuff and still keep your bearings, right?

02:54:51.000 So, like, I'm not out there saying, like, Pfizer and Bill Gates are trying to kill everybody in the world, right?

02:54:56.000 And I think that's why I'm kind of valuable, and I think that's why I'm kind of dangerous to some of these people.

02:55:01.000 I think so, too.

02:55:02.000 I think you are what I like in a journalist.

02:55:04.000 You're objective and reasonable, even when it's inconvenient.

02:55:08.000 And that's a thing that escaped a lot of people during this time.

02:55:12.000 And I hope people can find their way back again to what they wanted to be when they started out to become journalists.

02:55:18.000 Yes, but I hope Glenn will break some national security news in the next year.

02:55:23.000 I hope he'll get a new WikiLeaks or whatever, you know, a new Snowden documents or whatever.

02:55:28.000 Whatever it is, I'd love to see him go back to that.

02:55:33.000 Because you can spend all your time feeling ill-treated, and it doesn't do anybody any good.

02:55:42.000 Yeah, I see what you're saying.

02:55:44.000 I know what you're saying.

02:55:45.000 And that's a natural aspect of human nature.

02:55:49.000 You dig your heels in and you get angry.

02:55:52.000 Make it about you.

02:55:54.000 Yeah.

02:55:54.000 I mean, believe me, I get it.

02:55:58.000 It's easy.

02:55:58.000 I mean, look, you've got to understand what that guy was exposed to when he did release Ed Snowden's information.

02:56:05.000 I mean, that had to be horrific.

02:56:08.000 I mean, his life has been threatened on multiple occasions.

02:56:10.000 Yep.

02:56:11.000 No, I mean, they threatened to go after him with the Espionage Act.

02:56:14.000 No, there's a reason he's basically in Brazil, although he obviously comes back from time to time.

02:56:23.000 And honestly, that was an amazing piece of journalism, right?

02:56:26.000 Seeing the extent of the federal government and the NSA's surveillance efforts and everything they could do.

02:56:37.000 It's certainly among the more important pieces of journalism in the last 20 years.

02:56:41.000 And it's so bizarre that that wasn't met with the kind of outrage in this country that I felt it should be met with.

02:56:50.000 That this was done under the guise of protecting us from terrorism.

02:56:54.000 I want to know how much terrorism has that actually stopped?

02:56:57.000 And how many people have been violated?

02:57:00.000 How many people have had their rights violated because of this?

02:57:03.000 This thing that's not supposed to be legal in this country.

02:57:06.000 Yeah.

02:57:07.000 I mean, again, because the media has been so focused on trying to get Donald Trump the last six years, all those stories don't count anymore.

02:57:17.000 He's a giant problem in that way, right?

02:57:20.000 Because he represents this thing that's so easy to label as evil and must be stopped that it justifies so much.

02:57:28.000 And, you know, I mean, as I said, he's, you know, I always keep quoting my own stuff.

02:57:33.000 I wrote this a few weeks ago.

02:57:35.000 He's ruined journalism, right?

02:57:37.000 He ruined it because he made it all about him.

02:57:39.000 And the idea was, we'll do whatever we have to do.

02:57:42.000 We'll go with any rumor just to get him.

02:57:44.000 And, of course, it didn't work.

02:57:45.000 And now I fear, and we'll find out more about this raid last month, but I fear he's ruined, I guess it was earlier this month, but he's ruined law enforcement.

02:57:57.000 You know, those guys have even, you know, they have real strict ethical guidelines because the stakes are so high.

02:58:03.000 And, you know...

02:58:06.000 To raid the ex-president and possibly future president's house because of some boxes of papers he took home, you better have...

02:58:17.000 I hope they have more than that.

02:58:18.000 I mean, I do.

02:58:19.000 Because Trump has a way of making everyone crazy and making people violate their own standards.

02:58:27.000 And that is not good for anyone.

02:58:30.000 On both sides, right?

02:58:31.000 On both sides.

02:58:31.000 Yeah.

02:58:33.000 Anything else?

02:58:35.000 It's been a pleasure.

02:58:37.000 I appreciate you, man.

02:58:39.000 I really do.

02:58:39.000 I appreciate you.

02:58:40.000 I know you take a lot of shit, but I appreciate you. 0.99

02:58:42.000 I appreciated you when I first had you on to talk about cannabis, because I think it's a very important thing. 0.99

02:58:48.000 And I don't think if someone thinks that some parts of something are good, you should ignore the bad parts.

02:58:53.000 And I think there was this sort of...

02:58:58.000 There's this widespread belief amongst people that love cannabis that it's this wonder drug that's nothing but good and a net positive for everybody.

02:59:07.000 But I think we have to look at reality.

02:59:09.000 And I think that what you did in publishing that, Tell Your Children, is very important.

02:59:15.000 And I think people should be aware of it.

02:59:17.000 And I think that what you've done with all this information in the pandemic and the way you've distributed it, I think it's very valuable.

02:59:24.000 And I think a lot of people appreciate you.

02:59:27.000 Listen, I hope so.

02:59:29.000 I know...

02:59:33.000 You know, I wish people I were close to could see it that way.

02:59:38.000 You probably shouldn't be close to those folks.

02:59:40.000 Yeah.

02:59:41.000 I hate when somebody's been a friend for 30 years, man.

02:59:44.000 I know.

02:59:45.000 I get it, man.

02:59:45.000 Maybe they'll come back.

02:59:46.000 Maybe they'll get it eventually, ultimately.

02:59:49.000 I hope so.

02:59:50.000 I think what you did, you did for the right reasons.

02:59:52.000 Well, that's true.

02:59:54.000 Right or wrong, I did it for the right reasons.

02:59:56.000 Yeah.

02:59:56.000 I don't think you're wrong.

02:59:58.000 Well, I'm going to keep publishing.

03:00:00.000 Can I mention the Substack?

03:00:02.000 Yes, please.

03:00:03.000 It's called Unreported Truths.

03:00:05.000 It's at alexberenson.substack.com.

03:00:07.000 I hope and expect to have a lot more to say from the Twitter documents very soon.

03:00:14.000 I believe, I've sort of promised it and I do think it's going to happen.

03:00:20.000 I'm going to be suing Biden and Andy Slavitt.

03:00:22.000 We'll see what happens with that.

03:00:24.000 And the book, if you can find the final remaining copy of Barnes& Noble, it's Pandemia.

03:00:29.000 But look, I hope at this time next year, or whatever time, I hope obviously I'll come down and I'll come on with you anytime, we are talking about sort of...

03:00:42.000 Twitter and big tech and all that stuff.

03:00:45.000 I'd much rather be talking about that than some, you know, wave of deaths, you know, all-cause mortality.

03:00:51.000 Let's just hope that goes away.

03:00:52.000 I truly would love for that not to be a story in a few months.

03:00:58.000 As would I. As would I. Alex Branson, thank you very much.

03:01:02.000 Thank you, sir.

03:01:02.000 Appreciate you, brother.

03:01:03.000 All right.

03:01:04.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 26, 2022

Joe Rogan Experience #1864 - Alex Berenson

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Transcript