The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1885 Andy Stumpf & Mike Sarraille

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 So tell me about your dip problem. 1.00

00:00:14.000 Tell us about your disgusting mouth. 1.00

00:00:16.000 Is this how I start? 1.00

00:00:16.000 Yes. 1.00

00:00:18.000 So, you know, you talked about high school.

00:00:20.000 You did in high school.

00:00:22.000 I did it one time.

00:00:23.000 You did it one time.

00:00:25.000 One time in high school and never touched it again.

00:00:27.000 Go ahead, Mr. 19 years.

00:00:28.000 Mike was just saying that he had to get his skin grafted.

00:00:32.000 And he's like, you did it once!

00:00:33.000 Well, I remember the first time I did it, somebody gave me red man jaw, and it was over.

00:00:39.000 I was just yakking everywhere.

00:00:41.000 Where I started was in the Marine Corps, is when we're in a hide site.

00:00:47.000 You have to stay awake when it's your turn for security, but that could be like 3 a.m.

00:00:50.000 in the morning after you've been hiking for like six hours.

00:00:54.000 So eventually my team leader's like, you are going to put a dip in to do whatever it takes to stay awake during your watch.

00:01:00.000 Does dip keep you awake?

00:01:03.000 Nicotine does.

00:01:03.000 It should.

00:01:04.000 But dip will?

00:01:05.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:01:07.000 And so it morphed from there in the Marines, and I like to say we lived off of three things on deployment.

00:01:14.000 Water, coffee, and dip.

00:01:16.000 And even on a patrol with these guys, I would have a dip in, chewing caffeine gum, and drinking water.

00:01:22.000 Jesus.

00:01:23.000 Super healthy. 1.00

00:01:24.000 I'm gonna send this to Brendan Chubb because that motherfucker keeps, he has those little pouches. 1.00

00:01:29.000 They're so nasty. 1.00

00:01:30.000 He keeps four or five of them in his mouth at a time. 0.82

00:01:33.000 He looks like a squirrel.

00:01:34.000 Like he's got a little, like he's storing nuts.

00:01:37.000 Well, now you have to get grafted.

00:01:39.000 So you have to have skin grafted?

00:01:40.000 So they take the tissue from the top of your mouth and then graft it to the bottom of the teeth because it's receded quite a bit.

00:01:47.000 Hold on.

00:01:48.000 One second.

00:01:49.000 Sorry.

00:01:50.000 Are you good now?

00:01:50.000 Okay.

00:01:51.000 So what did it do to your mouth?

00:01:55.000 I think after 19 years of...

00:01:58.000 So I did switch from long cut to pouches.

00:02:01.000 And then pouches are... 0.99

00:02:05.000 Like, that makes a fucking difference. 0.98

00:02:07.000 There was a logical progression. 0.99

00:02:09.000 I switched from beer to vodka.

00:02:10.000 It's totally fine, guys.

00:02:13.000 I went from heroin to pills.

00:02:15.000 So the intent was long cut to pouches, right?

00:02:19.000 And pouches you would wean yourself off.

00:02:21.000 That did not work.

00:02:22.000 And so what is it?

00:02:23.000 Is it rotting your gums?

00:02:25.000 It just recedes your gums.

00:02:27.000 It doesn't rot your gums, but it recedes it.

00:02:29.000 Wow.

00:02:30.000 So you have yuck mouth. 1.00

00:02:31.000 Yuck mouth.

00:02:32.000 Let me see.

00:02:33.000 Let me see it.

00:02:35.000 How bad is it?

00:02:36.000 First off, I'm here just to debunk or fact check anything that Andy says.

00:02:41.000 Andy, people know you.

00:02:42.000 Andy Stump.

00:02:43.000 Mike, please introduce yourself. 0.66

00:02:45.000 Tell you how you know this degenerate.

00:02:46.000 Yes, absolutely. 0.94

00:02:47.000 I'm actually embarrassed.

00:02:49.000 Mike Cirelli, born in California as well, enlisted in the Marine Corps, was a recon Marine and a scout sniper, and eventually crossed over to the SEAL teams as an officer and retired after 20 years like Andy.

00:03:00.000 We served at the same place, but I've got to tell you about the first time I met Andy.

00:03:06.000 Because people ask me, like, what's Andy Stumpf like?

00:03:08.000 Because I meet people that are like, oh, Andy Stumpf. 1.00

00:03:10.000 I'm like, he is a real dick. 0.99

00:03:13.000 Andy? 1.00

00:03:14.000 Andy is a dick. 0.99

00:03:15.000 It's always been nice to me. 1.00

00:03:16.000 How weird.

00:03:17.000 I don't remember the story.

00:03:19.000 Always been a good friend.

00:03:19.000 Always been friendly.

00:03:21.000 Great sense of humor.

00:03:22.000 Yeah, I'm not sure.

00:03:23.000 Handsome guy.

00:03:24.000 A little reckless.

00:03:25.000 So we're at SEAL Team 3, and SEAL teams are younger.

00:03:29.000 The average age is what?

00:03:30.000 I think like 19 to 23. At a conventional team?

00:03:33.000 Early 20s at best.

00:03:34.000 Early 20s at best.

00:03:35.000 And so, you know, there's a bunch of officers in the operations room at SEAL Team 3, and we're talking.

00:03:41.000 There's a lot of groupthink going on.

00:03:43.000 We're bad-mouthing the leadership on a decision that was made.

00:03:46.000 And all of a sudden, this guy walks in who's got just a – he's in his uniform, which is rare.

00:03:51.000 He must be checking in.

00:03:52.000 He's got this big stack of ribbons to our two rows of ribbons.

00:03:57.000 And we're talking.

00:03:58.000 He's listening.

00:03:59.000 And we sort of see this guy in the background.

00:04:01.000 And what was odd was you stepped in and you're like, I think you're all wrong.

00:04:04.000 And he killed us with logic.

00:04:06.000 Because remember, each of us has like two combat deployments at this point.

00:04:10.000 We think we have it all figured out.

00:04:12.000 And Andy's coming in with his eight combat deployments and just destroys us.

00:04:16.000 What were you guys wrong about?

00:04:18.000 Everything.

00:04:19.000 What were they saying? 0.97

00:04:21.000 I don't even fucking remember this interaction. 0.99

00:04:23.000 He could be making this all up! 0.98

00:04:25.000 No, it's not. 0.99

00:04:27.000 So I forget the subject, but two of us left the room and I can't remember if I looked at him or he looked at me and he's like, Was that guy a dick? 0.99

00:04:37.000 And I'm like, yeah, he was a major dick. 0.99

00:04:39.000 But was I right? 0.99

00:04:40.000 You were right.

00:04:41.000 I think that was the problem that was wrong.

00:04:43.000 What were you guys wrong about?

00:04:45.000 So, you know, you get a little experience.

00:04:48.000 It's like the Dunning-Kruger effect.

00:04:50.000 You get a little experience under your belt, and you think you have everything figured out.

00:04:53.000 And for a young SEAL, whether enlisted or officer with two combat deployments, We're good to go.

00:05:16.000 Once he stepped up, it was wrong.

00:05:18.000 But testament to Andy, he had a reputation for going against the group think, and the SEAL teams have a lot of group think.

00:05:24.000 That's the easy answer, is just to get on board.

00:05:26.000 We still haven't gotten to what you guys were wrong about, though.

00:05:29.000 Do you remember?

00:05:30.000 I cannot recall.

00:05:31.000 All I recall is the answer.

00:05:32.000 Do you remember being wrong?

00:05:33.000 But it was about combat, and we thought we had it figured out.

00:05:37.000 He came in based off of his vast experience, or vaster than ours, much vaster.

00:05:41.000 You know what's interesting, though?

00:05:44.000 Two combat deployments at a conventional SEAL team is four years.

00:05:48.000 Because you got to do an 18 month workup, six month appointment, maybe they'll push you out to 12, depending on what's going on operationally.

00:05:55.000 The deployments that I came back with was like three and a half years worth.

00:06:00.000 So the velocity that I was getting the experience Was just crazy different in the compressed nature of it because it would be overseas for 90, back for 180. Overseas for 90, back for 180. And just constantly going and going and going and going.

00:06:14.000 So about the same amount of time, but four times the amount of experience.

00:06:18.000 Wow.

00:06:19.000 Yeah.

00:06:20.000 I will say, the guys, I left SEAL Team 3 and I went to where he was coming from when I called back because they were on deployment in Afghanistan.

00:06:30.000 They're like, dude, that guy rocks.

00:06:32.000 I mean, because he brought all this experience, all the planning experience, and you basically embedded in a platoon.

00:06:39.000 It was amazing.

00:06:40.000 I got a.300 Win Mag, a Javelin missile, and I just was laying heat down with both of those things.

00:06:47.000 It was awesome.

00:06:50.000 They would say, what high ground position do you want to go to?

00:06:53.000 I'm like, this one looks good right here.

00:06:57.000 So, the guys, and after I heard that, the guys loved him.

00:07:01.000 You know, first impressions, I was totally wrong, but how often does that happen?

00:07:04.000 Especially in the SEAL teams where you meet a guy for the first time and you're like, I hate that guy.

00:07:08.000 Well, I gotta think everybody's like super alpha, hyper aggressive, and also a little bit of combat experience, full piss and vinegar.

00:07:17.000 And everything's a competition.

00:07:19.000 Everything is a competition.

00:07:21.000 Almost to a detriment.

00:07:22.000 Yeah.

00:07:23.000 How do the teams balance out that with camaraderie?

00:07:27.000 Competitive with each other, but also camaraderie?

00:07:29.000 How do you avoid the internal conflict?

00:07:33.000 I think there's a line you don't go beyond.

00:07:39.000 The civilian populace, one of the things that they totally lack is something called shared adversity that we have in spades.

00:07:45.000 And with guys you rolled with for years, you could not see them for 10 years.

00:07:49.000 You see them all of a sudden, it's like you saw each other last week.

00:07:52.000 When you go through BUDS or you go through the hard training, because BUDS is not the end of the hard training, there's this homecoming belonging, this relationship esprit de corps built.

00:08:02.000 That will never die.

00:08:04.000 And so while we promote competition, it pays to be a winner, as we say.

00:08:09.000 There's a line at which if somebody wins, if Andy wins, the question now is, okay, Andy, what did you do differently than us?

00:08:16.000 And share that, you know, transfer that knowledge to us so that we can elevate our game as well.

00:08:22.000 So we understand, you know, Proverbs, was it 2717?

00:08:27.000 Are you asking me?

00:08:28.000 I have absolutely no idea.

00:08:28.000 Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another.

00:08:30.000 So you understand that.

00:08:31.000 But we understand competition makes the world go around to a point.

00:08:36.000 To a point.

00:08:37.000 To a point.

00:08:38.000 But at the end of the day, he's going to enter a room.

00:08:40.000 Well, first off, I'm an officer.

00:08:42.000 I wasn't entering any rooms.

00:08:43.000 He was for most of his career.

00:08:45.000 But, you know, I might be on his back and he's trusting me.

00:08:48.000 So if he's got knowledge, he's going to transfer that knowledge to me in training before we go to war to make sure that I'm the very best to cover his six.

00:08:55.000 The thing about things like, whether it's SEALs or any high-level military operation group, whenever you're dealing with people that have done something that's extraordinarily difficult, there's like a rite of passage you guys have gone through that a lot of people think is missing from particularly young men in our society and culture.

00:09:18.000 There's no real moment where you recognize that you've done something incredibly difficult and you've actually become a man.

00:09:26.000 It almost seems like society is pushing it the other direction where that shouldn't exist or it should be avoided.

00:09:31.000 Even with the teams, one of the things I hear is this narrative that it's too difficult.

00:09:36.000 I think you got to consider the source on that one.

00:09:39.000 You know, like the most recent thing that came out, I'm sure you saw this, Mike, was there was a video of training that occurred.

00:09:46.000 I'm pretty sure it was on San Clemente Island because that's where they CS gassed us.

00:09:50.000 And there's guys who are outside and they're getting exposure to CS gas.

00:09:55.000 Which I remember before I joined the military, if you look at any movie, probably up to and including like Full Metal Jacket, or if you even went into a recruiting office, exposure to CS gas is something that you do in basic training.

00:10:07.000 Except, I don't know if the Air Force does it.

00:10:11.000 I don't know.

00:10:12.000 Let's assume that they do.

00:10:14.000 Probably they don't, but let's assume that they do.

00:10:16.000 It was completely standard and normal to see. 0.99

00:10:19.000 And that room sucks. 0.74

00:10:21.000 You go into a room, you have a gas mask on, and they make you take it off and they make you either do something or say something or talk so you can't hold your breath. 0.98

00:10:28.000 That's the point of all that.

00:10:29.000 So this video comes out.

00:10:31.000 Of students that are outside, which, one, is actually a huge advantage because it dissipates quickly, especially if there's any kind of wind, and they're getting gassed. 0.99

00:10:38.000 And there's already issues with the story that I'm telling because, one, who the fuck is filming this?

00:10:42.000 Just the fact that there was somebody there who was filming this thing and it made it onto the internet in any way, shape, and form is a mistake in and of itself. 0.89

00:10:50.000 So it couldn't have been someone who was in the program.

00:10:53.000 It was an instructor.

00:10:54.000 It had to have been an instructor.

00:10:55.000 So the students, the last four weeks of training, you go out to San Clemente Island.

00:10:59.000 It's called third phase.

00:11:00.000 And you get a very basic indoctrination into small unit tactics, rifle, weaponry, explosives, you throw some grenades, you do some underwater demo, but you're out there for like the last tight four weeks of training.

00:11:16.000 The students, I mean, I don't even remember having a cell phone when I went through actually in 97. I'd be shocked if they're allowed to have cell phones on there.

00:11:23.000 So it had to have been an instructor.

00:11:25.000 But they're getting gassed.

00:11:27.000 They're being made to sing happy birthday again so you can't hold your breath.

00:11:31.000 And it looks horrible.

00:11:33.000 Because it is horrible. 0.99

00:11:34.000 And the point of that training is, is it's supposed to suck. 0.97

00:11:37.000 It's supposed to be difficult. 0.95

00:11:38.000 You're supposed to be exposed to that.

00:11:44.000 Yeah.

00:11:55.000 It's a volunteer-only program.

00:11:57.000 You can leave this particular training block if you want to at any given time.

00:12:01.000 And oh, by the way, every branch of the military exposes their people to this.

00:12:05.000 So although there are people who are saying, yeah, it's too difficult, I think you have to consider the source.

00:12:10.000 I don't think they know what they're talking about.

00:12:12.000 We expose people to it on Fear Factor.

00:12:14.000 Yeah.

00:12:16.000 Again, voluntary.

00:12:17.000 Police officers.

00:12:19.000 And if they didn't want to, I bet you they can be like, you know what, Mr. Rogan?

00:12:22.000 I'm done with this episode.

00:12:23.000 Like, I'm out of here.

00:12:24.000 So what happened with that particular video?

00:12:27.000 It made its way onto the internet.

00:12:29.000 And because of what it looks like, it looks like exactly what it is.

00:12:34.000 A really shitty evolution where you can't breathe.

00:12:37.000 Your sinuses are running more than you ever have had them run in your life. 0.95

00:12:40.000 You can't see.

00:12:41.000 You can barely talk.

00:12:42.000 You're choking.

00:12:42.000 You're gagging.

00:12:43.000 Some people throw up, so it made it onto the internet, and people started saying, how could you do that?

00:12:48.000 Like, this is too brutal of training.

00:12:50.000 How could you possibly do this?

00:12:52.000 That's weird that people on the internet had opinions.

00:12:55.000 So they just had opinions?

00:12:57.000 Did you just say it was weird that people on the internet have opinions?

00:13:01.000 Clearly, I'm being sarcastic.

00:13:03.000 But the fact that anybody paid attention to those opinions.

00:13:05.000 It trended for a while.

00:13:07.000 It actually, not only did they have opinions, it started getting shared.

00:13:11.000 And then it started, you know, the next thing you know, it's on major news outlets.

00:13:14.000 And then I actually think I saw an article saying that the Navy opened an investigation into it.

00:13:19.000 They have to.

00:13:20.000 At that point, you have to.

00:13:21.000 They should open an investigation.

00:13:22.000 So here it is.

00:13:23.000 Navy launches investigation into SEAL tear gas video.

00:13:27.000 Newly surfaced video showing Navy SEAL recruits being tear gassed is adding to scrutiny, adding to scrutiny over elite military units training practices.

00:13:38.000 I mean, you can speak to this, please.

00:13:40.000 Because you have to have brutal training.

00:13:43.000 So you have to layer onto this.

00:13:44.000 I'm going to say this.

00:13:45.000 I remember going through this in the Marine Corps.

00:13:47.000 I cannot recall that evolution on San Clemente.

00:13:50.000 And I asked somebody, they're like, oh yeah, it happened.

00:13:52.000 I can't remember it.

00:13:53.000 We went out into a demo range and they had sprinkled in CS powder into the dirt.

00:13:58.000 So we didn't actually realize we were having exposure to it.

00:14:01.000 And people were just covered in...

00:14:03.000 I remember I'm sitting there and we were trying to do demo calculations or like cut debt cord.

00:14:08.000 And you're like dry heaving.

00:14:10.000 I would say the reason that this is probably the bigger issue is that there was a high profile death in SEAL training not too long ago.

00:14:16.000 With a student who had just completed Hell Week and died in the hospital shortly thereafter.

00:14:22.000 The young man's mother is a nurse and she's very vocal about what has happened and there was an investigation involving that.

00:14:29.000 So it seems like not to...

00:14:34.000 Horrendous to lose your son in any way, shape, or form.

00:14:36.000 I don't want to take anything away from that. 0.95

00:14:38.000 But from that incident, this is like another layer on top of the onion on something that people were already talking about, which you combine the two and it just seems like, for one, I wish SEALs could get the fuck out of the news in general.

00:14:51.000 But since it starts, you know, they're layering on top of each other, it can seem to be a bigger deal than it is.

00:14:56.000 What did he die from?

00:14:58.000 Infection.

00:14:58.000 Yes.

00:14:59.000 So during Hell Week, you've got open source.

00:15:03.000 You're in the water, which isn't far from the Tijuana where it drains off.

00:15:07.000 So that's always been a concern, and we mitigate it extremely well.

00:15:11.000 And first off, my condolences to the mother, because this kid was a stud.

00:15:14.000 He was the captain of the Yale football team.

00:15:17.000 He was going to become a SEAL. He passed the hardest phase.

00:15:19.000 So was it like a staph infection?

00:15:21.000 It was a staph infection.

00:15:23.000 And you look at the source.

00:15:26.000 Bacterial pneumonia.

00:15:27.000 You look at the source.

00:15:28.000 This is all New York Times.

00:15:30.000 It's a string of reporters from New York Times that have just been, they've had a hard-on.

00:15:36.000 For the SEAL teams.

00:15:36.000 They have been going out.

00:15:37.000 In fact, they wrote a book, and you have the author, Matt Cole, Code Over Country.

00:15:43.000 And they have just, for the last half decade, if not more, have made it their personal crusade to bring down the SEAL teams.

00:15:54.000 And the Eddie Gallagher incident...

00:15:56.000 Did not help.

00:16:21.000 That defines his entire career.

00:16:42.000 It was an ISIS prisoner that had been wounded in a strike, and while rendering medical aid, they accused Eddie of murder.

00:16:52.000 But he was acquitted?

00:16:53.000 Yes.

00:16:55.000 But they still don't appreciate that he was acquitted?

00:16:57.000 Like, they still treat him like he's guilty?

00:17:00.000 Some of the things I've seen in the press, and I'll keep reporters out of it.

00:17:04.000 One, I can't remember their names, but a lot of the liberal news media just have painted him as a war criminal.

00:17:12.000 Bottom line.

00:17:13.000 And his life has been impacted.

00:17:15.000 If you look even at...

00:17:20.000 Naval Criminal Investigation Service.

00:17:22.000 The branch in San Diego was never held accountable for, let's just say, bad practices that they implemented while trying to bring Eddie down.

00:17:31.000 They also had a hard-on.

00:17:33.000 NCIS is not always...

00:17:36.000 Your friend.

00:17:37.000 And they're looking to make a name for themselves as well.

00:17:39.000 And in fact, I was investigated the day I retired by the same crew of people from NCIS San Diego, only six months previous to when the whole Eddie Gallagher thing sort of came on.

00:17:53.000 But, I mean, they tapped or they put a bug into Eddie's lawyers' emails so that they could read all the documents coming into that lawyer.

00:18:02.000 They did some pretty...

00:18:06.000 Pretty lame tactics.

00:18:07.000 And they were never held accountable.

00:18:10.000 Is it legal to do that?

00:18:12.000 No.

00:18:13.000 The initial lawyer was fired, relieved, and they replaced him rapidly.

00:18:19.000 Was he relieved from military service?

00:18:22.000 No, he was not.

00:18:22.000 Or was he laterally transferred?

00:18:23.000 Laterally transferred, and that's how they dealt with it.

00:18:26.000 Jamie, go back to that article again.

00:18:28.000 I want to say something.

00:18:29.000 When you first pulled up the first initial complaints, because I want to scroll.

00:18:35.000 Yeah, right there.

00:18:36.000 So they were talking about the protocols.

00:18:40.000 Here, let me be clear.

00:18:41.000 We have absolutely zero tolerance for hazing, abuse, or deviations from safety protocols.

00:18:48.000 As Navy SEALs, we serve our fellow Americans.

00:18:50.000 Uncompromising integrity is our standard.

00:18:52.000 Our character and honor are steadfast.

00:18:54.000 Most of all, we are expected to lead by example in all situations.

00:18:57.000 So if that is like standard operational procedure for those kind of training programs, why does he have to say that?

00:19:06.000 It's not hazing, right?

00:19:08.000 It's not...

00:19:08.000 I mean, you could...

00:19:10.000 Could you haze somebody with tear gas?

00:19:12.000 Yes.

00:19:13.000 What I'll say is this as somebody who was a BUDS instructor, There is an evolution sheet and matrix for every single thing that happens in training, to include remediating the students.

00:19:23.000 When they fall short of a standard, there are limits to how long you can remediate them for.

00:19:29.000 There's limits to the exercises that you can use.

00:19:32.000 There is an oversight matrix of who's in charge of the evolution, what's the ratio going to be student to instructor.

00:19:39.000 There is somewhere a matrix and evolution sheet for exposure to CS gas in BUDS. There is absolutely no way that those instructors are like, hey Mike, you doing anything tomorrow too?

00:19:51.000 Let's go gas these fuckers. 1.00

00:19:53.000 That doesn't happen. 1.00

00:19:54.000 Every single day in BUDS is templated.

00:19:57.000 Why that person said that, I'm not sure.

00:19:59.000 But as somebody who worked in that pipeline with that curriculum, It exists.

00:20:04.000 And what they need to say is, yeah, there's a reason that we do this.

00:20:06.000 And the reason that we do this is so that their first exposure isn't in an environment where their life might be on the line.

00:20:11.000 That would actually shut it down.

00:20:13.000 Because what that does is it leaves the door and it leaves question in people's minds.

00:20:17.000 Did they make a mistake?

00:20:18.000 Were they hazing people?

00:20:19.000 Do we need to do this?

00:20:20.000 My resounding answer is yes.

00:20:22.000 And also I'll add to that.

00:20:25.000 My answer when people ask me about students who have died in BUDS, and I think there have been 10 in the history of BUDS since the 50s, is that it needs to continue to happen.

00:20:33.000 I don't want it to happen.

00:20:34.000 I don't want anybody to lose their life.

00:20:36.000 But if the training becomes so exceedingly safe that that's not a potential, then we're not serving people in that training and we're not preparing them for what the battlefield is going to expect.

00:20:45.000 I'll push against you on that one.

00:20:46.000 If you explain it to the American public...

00:20:49.000 More than half still won't understand.

00:20:51.000 They will still view it as brutal, as unnecessary.

00:20:56.000 But, you know, there's been a push to make the military a playground for progressive policies.

00:21:07.000 And it is the last place politically that we want people playing.

00:21:12.000 I mean, you even see China has an initiative to actually make their men more masculine.

00:21:18.000 Yeah, I saw that.

00:21:19.000 And we're going the opposite direction.

00:21:21.000 There is a diversity, equity, and inclusion chief at the Pentagon now who wrote a book that basically called the first responders menaces and basically painted them as white supremacists.

00:21:39.000 It's going a very bad direction.

00:21:41.000 I will say this about the military.

00:21:43.000 What people don't understand is it is highly professional.

00:21:45.000 I've always been impressed.

00:21:46.000 There are standards.

00:21:48.000 There's doctrine.

00:21:49.000 And instructors know that they follow that playbook.

00:21:52.000 They mitigate risk to the lowest level because you always have the risk of getting investigated for something like this.

00:21:59.000 So who's letting these progressive policies infect the military?

00:22:04.000 How is that ever an option?

00:22:07.000 Is that just people who are blissfully unaware because they're on the outside?

00:22:11.000 How does that ever get in to the point where you're considering things like elite groups like the SEALs having to deal with this sort of politically correct nonsense?

00:22:24.000 Personally, I think the policy of transparency that was made or popularized by President Obama, and I'm not attacking President Obama.

00:22:33.000 He was aggressive on the war on terror.

00:22:35.000 He made a lot of aggressive decisions, but there are certain communities where transparency, like the CIA special operations, is not the best policy, is they should remain in the shadows, and there should be Just public trust that we are doing the right things.

00:22:52.000 We don't want anyone to pass away in training.

00:22:55.000 We don't want to get anyone hurt.

00:22:58.000 But we also don't want to advertise our capabilities or our training or capacities to potential military peers like China or Russia.

00:23:09.000 So, the transparency for me, propaganda, do it with the regular military, keep special operations out of the bubble.

00:23:16.000 But even doing it with the regular military, like, why?

00:23:19.000 I don't have an answer for how it started infiltrating other than it seems to be the groundswell.

00:23:25.000 I mean, the military is just a group of people from normal societies, so I don't think it's uncommon to see things that our society is dealing with working their way into the military, but I do hope that there is a backstop against it.

00:23:38.000 And in my mind, everything needs to be worked in a reverse direction.

00:23:42.000 What is it we're asking these people to do in the real world execution of their job?

00:23:46.000 Now let's work our training pipeline to prepare those people for that. 0.55

00:23:49.000 I don't know where the progressive ideology falls into that or how it infects that.

00:23:54.000 Or how it got started.

00:23:56.000 And I'm a little bit detached from the teams at this point.

00:23:58.000 I've been out now for almost 10 years, but I still stay in contact with people.

00:24:02.000 And what I am hearing, though, is that it is pushing at the corners and it is pushing at the edges.

00:24:08.000 And it's not enhancing what they're doing.

00:24:10.000 In their words, not mine, because, again, I've been out of it for almost a decade.

00:24:14.000 And their word's not mine.

00:24:15.000 It's not enhancing their ability to perform on the X. But I can't understand.

00:24:20.000 If the SEALs are filled with guys like you guys, how does it even get discussed?

00:24:27.000 There's a bell curve even in the SEAL teams.

00:24:30.000 You take even the command that we served at, which it's not impossible to get to.

00:24:36.000 It's a little bit more difficult.

00:24:37.000 But if you take a team of 50 people, you're going to have your bottom 10%, and you're going to have your top 10% and everybody else in between.

00:24:42.000 And it is a melting pot.

00:24:44.000 I serve with people who were just devoutly religious.

00:24:48.000 Devoutly religious. 0.98

00:24:49.000 And then people who, come to find out later, were sociopaths and serial killers.

00:24:54.000 We've talked about that on a previous podcast.

00:24:56.000 And everything in between.

00:24:58.000 So there is diversity of ideas.

00:25:01.000 Inside of the SEAL community, people think, oh, it's only people who lean to the right.

00:25:04.000 And I would say there are more people who lean to the right, but there are plenty who lean to the left.

00:25:08.000 And we're talking – I mean I remember team room conversations about religion, about politics, about sexuality.

00:25:14.000 And there was never like, yep, that's it, and we all slapped the table.

00:25:18.000 Let me say, well, to this point, I wrote a book about this called The Talent War, how special operations and great organizations went on talent.

00:25:24.000 It was about performance and about building high-performing teams and how the special operations goes about it.

00:25:28.000 Because when you think about it, in the private sector, people hire you based on how much industry experience you usually have.

00:25:35.000 Well, in our profession, I can't go to a high school or a college and say, who here has special operations experience?

00:25:41.000 Nobody would raise their hands.

00:25:43.000 So by nature, the assessment and selection process, which we're talking about, basic underwater demolition school, is hire for character, train for skill.

00:25:51.000 And that's why we push these men and women to their limits, their mental and physical limits, because that's where true character emerges.

00:26:00.000 And that's what we're looking for.

00:26:02.000 We're looking for mental toughness, resiliency, the ability to work as a team.

00:26:06.000 And that brings up a point.

00:26:07.000 You know, one of the former commandants in the Marine Corps just wrote an article and basically was arguing, keep your hands off the military.

00:26:15.000 The military runs off a different set of ideologies.

00:26:19.000 Those ideologies are conformity to a degree, which conformity is not always a bad thing.

00:26:24.000 You know, if you have a baseball team, you want some conformity to SOPs, standard operating procedures.

00:26:29.000 But it's also to operate as a team.

00:26:32.000 So in this training, we break people down in their individual selves and we build them up as a team player, where the public sector sort of Let's say they trend towards individuality, which is not bad either.

00:26:46.000 We do want people to be people.

00:26:48.000 Like Andy has a personality.

00:26:49.000 I have a personality.

00:26:50.000 And we almost breed this...

00:26:51.000 I like to call it in the SEAL teams a healthy disrespect for authority.

00:26:56.000 To push back against...

00:27:00.000 I don't want to say my orders.

00:27:01.000 I never gave orders.

00:27:01.000 These are my orders.

00:27:02.000 I've never said that.

00:27:03.000 But, hey, here's my decision.

00:27:04.000 This is what we're going to do.

00:27:05.000 If it's not a good idea and I outrank Andy, Andy's going to come back and be like, yeah, we're not going to do that. 0.99

00:27:10.000 That's stupid and this is why. 0.99

00:27:11.000 So he does it in a professional and tactful way. 1.00

00:27:14.000 But I'm sick and tired and, you know, I do place very high-performing veterans into jobs.

00:27:23.000 That's what I do for a living.

00:27:25.000 But people, based off Hollywood, have these bad, Sort of perceptions of what the military is.

00:27:32.000 It's because Paramount and Warner Brothers don't paint us in a good light.

00:27:35.000 We're not the Chris Kyles.

00:27:38.000 This guy and all the guys I served with were the most lethal warriors in the world.

00:27:42.000 I was not.

00:27:42.000 I ended up there and I was proud to be part of a team.

00:27:45.000 I told Andy, always a bridesmaid, never a bride. 0.97

00:27:49.000 Meaning I was part of a good team.

00:27:50.000 We got that mission done.

00:27:52.000 We got that bride married. 0.99

00:27:53.000 But the most lethal warriors I knew who no one will ever know in the public We're kind, empathetic, respectful, and they loved their fellow man.

00:28:06.000 And they were husbands.

00:28:08.000 They were fathers.

00:28:09.000 They were sons.

00:28:10.000 They were wives, daughters, mothers.

00:28:13.000 And when they needed to dial empathy down and do the bad part of a job, they did it and they did it with lethality.

00:28:22.000 And then they dialed the empathy back up.

00:28:26.000 But people naturally gravitate towards Hollywood and they paint this bad picture as a veteran.

00:28:31.000 I mean, I came from Atherton, man.

00:28:34.000 It's one of the most affluent towns in America.

00:28:37.000 And I ended up amongst a lot of guys that came from nothing.

00:28:40.000 And their character far outweighs a lot of the people I know in the public sector.

00:28:45.000 What is it about these movies?

00:28:47.000 Why do they paint veterans in that way?

00:28:52.000 And why does it permeate our culture?

00:28:55.000 You would think that depictions in fiction would not overwhelm the reality of what is needed and what gets done.

00:29:05.000 But it kind of does.

00:29:07.000 I think it's harder to tell the full story when you have a time compressed medium to tell that story in.

00:29:14.000 If you want to have people put their butts into seats and it's the last 20 plus years of sustained combat operation, you're probably going to make a movie about things exploding, bullets flying over your head.

00:29:26.000 You might dive into a little bit of the storyline on some people's lives, but it's an easier Unfortunately, story and narrative to tell than to truly unpack what it takes to live in that world for that long.

00:29:40.000 That's probably the only exposure, other than things like this, like a podcast where people actually get to sit down and talk, that the only exposure these people ever have, if they don't know anyone that was in the SEALs or anyone that was Green Beret or Ranger or what have you, they don't know. 0.99

00:29:55.000 So, you know, maybe they read an article in the Times like, oh, these people are assholes. 0.99

00:29:59.000 This is terrible. 1.00

00:30:00.000 Look what they're doing to the recruits.

00:30:02.000 We need to dial this down.

00:30:03.000 We need to dial this back like I have to do at the office.

00:30:06.000 Like, they don't have a comprehension of, like, what is necessary to get the job done or what you guys have to do.

00:30:12.000 Yeah, if I could rewind the clock back to 2010, my last deployment, and you take somebody who says that the training that we were talking about is unnecessary.

00:30:21.000 Like, why don't you just get in my hip pocket for tonight? 0.96

00:30:23.000 Why don't you just come with me on target and at the end of this we're gonna do a debrief and you let me know how difficult you think the training should be so you can perform at this level in an environment that might take your life and they're gonna go okay well I don't know what they would say but I would assume they would say yeah you guys need to make this as really as hard as possible and I'm totally good with you gassing people and maybe you should gas them for longer many more times and you should do this it would blow their fucking mind what is actually required to be able to perform in that environment And I can't fault them for not understanding that because

00:30:54.000 they just don't have exposure to it. 0.98

00:30:56.000 We've gotten comfortable.

00:30:56.000 We've gotten way too comfortable here.

00:30:58.000 And if they saw the atrocities that we saw over there, they would understand why.

00:31:03.000 You know, evil exists.

00:31:06.000 And you've heard the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to stand by and do nothing.

00:31:14.000 I mean, we saw ISIS throwing gay men from seven-story roofs with the people in the town watching. 0.96

00:31:24.000 There is evil, and unfortunately, sometimes you've got to go to hell to send somebody to hell. 0.98

00:31:30.000 It's a famous quote.

00:31:34.000 It's an ugly job.

00:31:36.000 I think you said it best.

00:31:37.000 I watched an interview where you said war leaves a fingerprint.

00:31:41.000 It leaves a fingerprint and that fingerprint will always be a part of our DNA. And I question some of the things we did and the outcomes of the war.

00:31:51.000 And I even went back as a BUDS instructor.

00:31:54.000 I was the junior officer training course director for the SEALs at graduated BUDS. And my job in one month was to turn them into ground force commanders, GFCs as we call it.

00:32:02.000 And I worked at Hell Week Evolution.

00:32:05.000 And when I worked it, I was the, what do you call it, not the phase officer, but the OIC for the evolution.

00:32:12.000 Probably just like the shift lead or something like that?

00:32:14.000 Yeah, the shift lead. 0.99

00:32:15.000 And the first time I looked at the guys and I'm like, oh my God, we're going to kill these kids. 0.67

00:32:19.000 And they're like, hey, Mike, calm down. 0.71

00:32:21.000 We thought that the first time we saw this training as well.

00:32:23.000 And we've all been through it.

00:32:25.000 It takes you back.

00:32:26.000 When you go back and actually, because you go through it the first time and it's so abstract because it's just day after day after day.

00:32:32.000 And you go back as an instructor and there's not enough instructors to, in just first phase, which is where Hell Week occurs, they augment from all the other phases because it's a 24-hour training pipeline from a Sunday till about Friday afternoon.

00:32:45.000 And you watch people who are on the verge of death.

00:32:48.000 And they're there voluntarily. 1.00

00:32:49.000 And even though you went through it, you sit back and you're like, holy shit. 0.99

00:32:55.000 Like, did we look that bad? 0.98

00:32:56.000 I remember specifically asking other instructors, like, do you think that we looked as bad as they looked when we were in training? 0.92

00:33:01.000 Because these dudes are the walking dead.

00:33:04.000 It's gnarly. 0.92

00:33:05.000 That's what I was just going to say.

00:33:06.000 Joe, you've got to understand.

00:33:08.000 We've got medical personnel out there.

00:33:10.000 We've got ambulances out there.

00:33:11.000 Sometimes you have a psychologist out there.

00:33:13.000 I mean, we are going through a checklist to mitigate risk down to the lowest level.

00:33:18.000 But the interesting thing about the assessment and selection is we used to play a game, who's going to make it through the training?

00:33:25.000 And you are 90% wrong.

00:33:27.000 I mean, we had a NCAA athlete in one of the classes, a starting fullback.

00:33:32.000 Didn't last two weeks of the—how long is the training?

00:33:35.000 Buds?

00:33:36.000 26 weeks?

00:33:36.000 26 weeks.

00:33:37.000 Didn't last past the second week.

00:33:40.000 And I, even going through it because I was a prior recon Marine, so I thought I knew what they were looking for, made a judgment on some of the kids that were going through Buds with me.

00:33:48.000 One of them was a little Asian kid who was sort of passive and unassuming. 1.00

00:33:53.000 Is he an astronaut now?

00:33:55.000 Yes.

00:33:55.000 And at the end of Hell Week, I looked down the line.

00:33:59.000 I think we started with 250. We ended up with 25. And there's this little Asian kid that weighs probably 140, 150 pounds.

00:34:05.000 And I'm like, huh.

00:34:06.000 Wow.

00:34:07.000 Was I wrong assessing that kid as a fellow student to him?

00:34:11.000 And we ended up in the same SEAL team.

00:34:14.000 I watched him earn the Silver Star literally with my eyes.

00:34:17.000 Or he did something that he was awarded the Silver Star for.

00:34:21.000 Then he went back and became a Navy doctor.

00:34:24.000 And yeah, he became an astronaut all by the age of 34 and his name is Dr. Johnny Kim.

00:34:29.000 And he's the most humble dude that you'll ever meet.

00:34:32.000 Classic underachiever.

00:34:33.000 Yeah.

00:34:34.000 So what is it when you're looking at them and they look like they're at the verge of death?

00:34:38.000 Like what part of the program are they going through?

00:34:41.000 I would say when you're seeing them at that phase, it's going to be the trenches of hell week.

00:34:44.000 Because that is literally a 24-hour long from Sunday evening, somewhere between sun going down at 6 p.m.

00:34:53.000 to whenever they start it with breakout at 8 p.m.

00:34:55.000 all the way through to Friday.

00:34:56.000 You're going to get about two hours of sleep on Wednesday.

00:34:58.000 So it's going to be Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

00:35:01.000 They're absolute walking dead by design.

00:35:04.000 They're just barely getting any sleep at all.

00:35:06.000 Two hours of sleep on Wednesday.

00:35:08.000 That's it.

00:35:08.000 You might get like some micro rewards because everything is like a team evolution.

00:35:12.000 There's some really famous pictures of people running with boats on their heads.

00:35:14.000 And if you win an evolution, you maybe get five minutes of standing there by yourself.

00:35:20.000 Or the instructors might let you put your boat down and they'll not pay attention to you for a little bit so you can get like a micro nap.

00:35:26.000 Other than that, they're just moving constantly.

00:35:29.000 Evolution after evolution after evolution after evolution.

00:35:31.000 How can you stay awake that long?

00:35:34.000 Hypothermic.

00:35:35.000 You're constantly being told to do things.

00:35:37.000 I mean, the main tools that you have at BUDS is the beach, so you have sand, which is obviously an amazing abrasive, and the cold water.

00:35:44.000 And the main tools at BUDS are telephone poles, which are super low-tech, these IBSs, inflatable boats small, which is an air-filled rubber boat carried by three on each side and an officer in the back, generally, because As Mike knows from his career, they're just generally doing less than the enlisted.

00:36:05.000 And that's it.

00:36:06.000 I mean, those are the main tools.

00:36:06.000 So they're racing.

00:36:08.000 They're running.

00:36:09.000 They're paddling their boats.

00:36:11.000 They're crawling through the mud pits.

00:36:12.000 They're just constantly moving.

00:36:13.000 So the sleep deprivation is about testing your will or testing your ability to endure.

00:36:19.000 And your character.

00:36:20.000 I would describe, and this is my description, not anything that I think the Navy would agree with, but I would describe Bud's training as an ability to look at who somebody really is.

00:36:32.000 When you're at the lowest point you ever thought you've been at.

00:36:36.000 Emotionally, physiologically, psychologically.

00:36:41.000 And when presented a choice, are you going to take care of yourself or are you going to take care of the people that are next to you?

00:36:46.000 That is what BUDS, to me, boils down to.

00:36:49.000 Make somebody cold and make somebody tired.

00:36:52.000 And we're talking three days without sleep.

00:36:55.000 When in your youth, prior to that, did you ever go three days without sleep?

00:36:58.000 Probably never.

00:36:59.000 Ever.

00:37:00.000 Ever.

00:37:00.000 And you see different people.

00:37:02.000 You see people for who they are.

00:37:04.000 Yeah.

00:37:04.000 And you can think somebody as hard as hell, you know, at the beginning stages of BUDS, and then everything changes in that one week.

00:37:12.000 And, you know, what we found, personally, this is my anecdotal sort of learning, is that people who faced a lot of obstacles early in life before getting to SEAL training...

00:37:23.000 Usually have the scar tissue of resilience, and they do pretty damn well.

00:37:28.000 And the thing about Buds is you don't know anyone's story.

00:37:31.000 You know when no one's—I mean, yeah, you may know that Andy's from the Santa Cruz area and Mike's from Palo Alto area, but you don't know their background.

00:37:40.000 Point in case, Johnny Kim.

00:37:42.000 You know, I know Johnny for 15 years and then we finally hear on the Jocko podcast where he sort of goes into his background that his dad was killed by police and he was sort of, you know, he's the one that called the police on that day.

00:37:56.000 His dad had a standoff and he blames himself.

00:37:59.000 We never knew that about Johnny.

00:38:01.000 But had I known that before making an assessment of Johnny, I would have realized that that kid at the time had been through a lot more in life than I had.

00:38:11.000 And there's no other way?

00:38:13.000 I don't think that there is.

00:38:15.000 How else could you know what someone's capable of?

00:38:19.000 I mean, unless you really test them like that, it doesn't seem like there's another way.

00:38:24.000 Otherwise, like you were saying, you don't know who they are until they're under that kind of stress.

00:38:30.000 And for clarity, the selection process is not perfect.

00:38:33.000 There are still people that make their way through.

00:38:35.000 I have seen people who have been fully made it through the multi-year training pipeline, who have been awarded their Trident, maybe even done a combat deployment.

00:38:44.000 I have seen them quit.

00:38:45.000 I have seen them give up, which is supposed to be what that training crucible is all about.

00:38:51.000 Finding those people that in theory would never be able or would never allow themselves to make that decision.

00:38:56.000 It's just not perfect, but it's as close as I think we can possibly get.

00:39:02.000 I have a deep respect for anyone who makes it through Buds.

00:39:05.000 Sure.

00:39:06.000 You are part of a select few.

00:39:08.000 But let me reshape this for you.

00:39:11.000 Ultimately, in the career of a SEAL or Army Special Forces or 75th Ranger Regiment, they all go through very similar training.

00:39:19.000 That's just the entrance exam.

00:39:22.000 It's a long entrance exam, and it's the longest behavioral interview probably in the world.

00:39:28.000 And to Andy's point, we still get it wrong, but that's the entrance exam.

00:39:33.000 And then the next part of your career, the next, you know, potential five years, 20 years, 30 years, it then sort of transforms into performance.

00:39:44.000 Can you perform?

00:39:44.000 Can you do the tactical and technical side?

00:39:46.000 We already know you have the mental toughness, the resilience, but there's a lot of guys that graduate BUDS that just, quite frankly, to his point, this talent distribution, this normal distribution, this bell curve.

00:39:57.000 I mean, we've got our top 2%, and they're completely in a different realm.

00:40:01.000 And then you've got the 98%, and you can split that into multiple tranches of the high performers, middle-of-the-road performers, and then we call it the bottom of the barrel.

00:40:12.000 And when you get out of BUDS, what is the process, like once you graduate, once you're out of BUDS, what's the process from there out?

00:40:21.000 Training.

00:40:22.000 Yeah, I'm a little over my skis on this one because they changed it when I went through.

00:40:26.000 We did a bunch.

00:40:27.000 So the goal at the end of the day is to be awarded your Triton.

00:40:30.000 It's a metal pin that you get handed and they change your NEC or what does that mean?

00:40:34.000 Naval Enlistment Classification?

00:40:35.000 It changed it to a 5326 for an enlisted person, which means you're a SEAL. When you show up on, like, you're now officially a SEAL. When I went through, it was BUDS, it was Static Line Jump School out at Fort Banning.

00:40:48.000 We checked into our team and they put us through another six months to a year of training and then you went around all of the departments and you tested in front of your peers and you were doing calculations for a demo.

00:40:58.000 You were planning a dive with currents.

00:40:59.000 You were taking apart weaponry.

00:41:02.000 I mean you were talking about tactics and it was a very – at the time I was like this is unbelievable.

00:41:08.000 Like I thought it was just this robust test of knowledge.

00:41:10.000 I look back now. 0.99

00:41:11.000 I'm like holy shit. 0.98

00:41:12.000 Those were the entry level. 0.98

00:41:13.000 Like those were just the chapters.

00:41:14.000 I didn't understand the words that were even on the page.

00:41:17.000 So each team kind of did their own thing.

00:41:19.000 And, you know, post 9-11, a lot of things got course corrected, and I think this is one of them.

00:41:24.000 They realized it's not a good idea to have SEAL Team 5, which is literally a nine-iron golf shot away from SEAL Team 3, doing different training.

00:41:31.000 Probably better if we all get the same product at the end of the day.

00:41:34.000 So now when you graduate BUDS, you go to a program called, it's SQT, SEAL Qualification Training, which is going to be like another maybe two years, depending on when you time it, and you go through cold weather training.

00:41:47.000 Jungle training, desert training, everything, comms, all of that stuff.

00:41:53.000 And at the end of that, they graduate as a class, they're all awarded their trident, so they all have the same baseline level of training, and then you go to your SEAL team.

00:42:00.000 So you're two years into a pipeline before you show up for your first day on the job at a SEAL team.

00:42:05.000 And that's what I went through.

00:42:06.000 Like broadly.

00:42:07.000 Like there's going to be some outliers in that, but broadly that covers what they're going to do for the pipeline.

00:42:11.000 Basically we were better and smarter than his generation. 0.78

00:42:15.000 They knew more for sure.

00:42:16.000 Is it difficult to get people to – is it like – do you have the same amount of people that are trying to become SEALs now as there was in the past or is it – I would say so.

00:42:27.000 I would say so, if not more.

00:42:29.000 It's more competitive to even get into the training.

00:42:32.000 Because they've got thousands of kids competing for only 250 slots per class.

00:42:37.000 And these kids are better athletes.

00:42:39.000 They're smarter.

00:42:41.000 So it's more competitive.

00:42:43.000 So the process has worked.

00:42:44.000 There is something to say for Hollywood.

00:42:47.000 And, you know, the Paramount Plus show, you know, SEAL team, they are a funnel filler for recruitment, for high-performing kids coming out of high school or college that want to give it a shot to see if they have what it takes to become a SEAL, an Army Special Forces Green Beret,

00:43:04.000 Ranger Regiment, MARSOC Raider.

00:43:07.000 And that's the whole point.

00:43:08.000 The whole point is we hope the next generation coming behind us is better, faster, stronger than we were.

00:43:15.000 It's interesting you ask that, though, because in one of those articles, and I believe it was around, I read it in an article, it was around the young man's death.

00:43:22.000 It was talking about the attrition rate, you know, the number of people that are making it through.

00:43:26.000 And it would appear that the attrition rate, or the number of people making it through, is decreasing, which gives you an opportunity to look at that in two different directions.

00:43:36.000 I know I have my take on it, and then there seemed to be a more popular take that was being talked about.

00:43:40.000 And the more popular take was, well, this training is too hard.

00:43:44.000 Why are we doing these things?

00:43:45.000 The way I look at it is, let's assume that the training has actually been the same largely since its inception.

00:43:51.000 I think it was in like the 40s or 50s when they switched from being the UDT into the SEAL teams.

00:43:57.000 If the training has actually stayed the same and we're using the same fucking telephone pole logs, I wouldn't be shocked if we were still using some of the actual same telephone pole logs from back in the day.

00:44:07.000 Then what is it that is actually changing?

00:44:10.000 And the answer is the people who are attempting the training.

00:44:13.000 So instead of vilifying the training, maybe we ought to take a hard look at our society, and maybe the curriculum is doing just fine.

00:44:19.000 But as a society, we're getting softer and softer and softer with less resilience.

00:44:25.000 And that to me explains a lot more the differences in attrition than the actual curriculum itself.

00:44:31.000 It's hard to argue that that's not the case in terms of the people that you see today.

00:44:36.000 It seems like today people demand more.

00:44:39.000 They feel like they deserve more.

00:44:42.000 They feel like they're entitled to more.

00:44:44.000 And they feel like they want to work less.

00:44:46.000 I mean that's a narrative that you see pushed over and over and over again, which is the exact opposite you want.

00:44:51.000 For any kind of extraordinary achievement.

00:44:54.000 That attitude is going to keep you from ever being extraordinary at anything.

00:44:59.000 If you think that the world owes you something, you think that you're entitled to something, you think that you're working too hard.

00:45:04.000 The people that excel in any endeavor in life are the people that are willing to work the smartest, the hardest, and the people that are able to get out of their own fucking way and realize that they're task-oriented. 0.99

00:45:18.000 They get the job done, whatever the fuck it is.

00:45:20.000 People that concentrate on, and this is something that's enforced in our society, people that concentrate on the negative aspects of things. 0.99

00:45:29.000 Like that, you know, why is it so hard?

00:45:32.000 Why is this?

00:45:32.000 Why does this person have something that I don't?

00:45:34.000 You know, why do they get a chance and I don't?

00:45:37.000 And that kind of thinking is encouraged in our culture today. 0.99

00:45:42.000 It's like encouraged that if you didn't succeed, it's more likely that somebody fucked you over. 0.98

00:45:48.000 It's less likely that you're kind of fucking lazy or entitled or, you know, nobody wants to tell anybody that today. 0.98

00:45:57.000 Nobody wants to tell anybody that you're not working hard. 0.97

00:45:58.000 Well, you'll get ganged up on by the people who are used to being told, like, it's not me, it's everything else externally.

00:46:02.000 Yeah, I don't know where the end state leads to that.

00:46:05.000 But I don't think it's awesome.

00:46:07.000 I don't think it's the place where we want to end up.

00:46:10.000 It's only awesome for people who don't think like that because then they excel.

00:46:17.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:46:19.000 I had this conversation with someone about Gordon Ryan.

00:46:24.000 Like, why is Gordon Ryan so good?

00:46:25.000 And I said, well, one of the reasons why he's so good is he works every day.

00:46:28.000 It's 365 days a year.

00:46:30.000 It doesn't take any days off.

00:46:31.000 Almost like he's dedicated his life to it.

00:46:33.000 Crazy, right?

00:46:33.000 Who would have thunk?

00:46:35.000 Crazy. 1.00

00:46:35.000 Everybody wants to be a bad motherfucker, but nobody wants to do what it takes to become that. 1.00

00:46:40.000 And therein lies the problem, I think. 0.99

00:46:42.000 So, one, I think the next epidemic that we need to confront and confront now is victimhood.

00:46:48.000 It's permeating the United States rapidly.

00:46:52.000 You're rewarded for it.

00:46:53.000 But you look at Gordon Ryan, everyone who looks at him on social media thinks it just came overnight.

00:46:59.000 Well, he just got canceled on social media.

00:47:00.000 I can't believe you brought that up.

00:47:01.000 Yeah, what is happening with this?

00:47:03.000 He doesn't even know why.

00:47:05.000 They didn't even tell him why.

00:47:06.000 They said it was bullying.

00:47:08.000 So he's literally in a business where elite athletes that are trained killers try to bully each other.

00:47:15.000 I think.

00:47:16.000 That's what they do. 0.99

00:47:18.000 And then they end up going to a mat and actually objectively working it out, and then they generally high-five afterwards, and they fucking move on. 0.92

00:47:23.000 Yeah, and hug. 0.73

00:47:23.000 If you look at the photos of him and Andre Galvao after he strangled him, they're like hugging each other. 0.73

00:47:28.000 He's holding Andre's hand up, they hug.

00:47:30.000 I think, and I heard this from somebody else, that he...

00:47:34.000 Let's be honest.

00:47:35.000 Gordon gets a little wild from time to time. 1.00

00:47:37.000 He'll say some shit. 1.00

00:47:38.000 Of course he can. 1.00

00:47:39.000 Of course he does, rather.

00:47:40.000 That's why he's who he is.

00:47:41.000 Because he does think like that. 0.99

00:47:43.000 I think what I was told is that he essentially told someone that they should go kill themselves.

00:47:47.000 Which, again, that was told to me second or third hand, but that would fall into, like, the bullying policy.

00:47:54.000 Did he tell another elite jiu-jitsu fighter that they should kill themselves?

00:47:57.000 I would be shocked if it wasn't another elite jiu-jitsu fighter.

00:48:00.000 And I'm not even positive that's what happened, but to me, in my head, I'm like, okay, that would probably make sense if they were to take that action.

00:48:06.000 How many times did we tell that to each other when you do something embarrassing?

00:48:09.000 I told that to you when we were out there.

00:48:14.000 I mean, what does that mean?

00:48:17.000 Is it literal?

00:48:18.000 No.

00:48:19.000 It's clearly not literal.

00:48:21.000 Yeah, it's a figure of speech.

00:48:22.000 It means embarrassing.

00:48:23.000 You should be embarrassed.

00:48:24.000 Yeah, you should be embarrassed.

00:48:26.000 It's like Sebastian Manasako.

00:48:27.000 You should be embarrassed.

00:48:30.000 Should he say that?

00:48:32.000 Is that okay?

00:48:32.000 Fortunately, he has a backup account where he basically posted it.

00:48:36.000 The screen was like, RIP to me.

00:48:39.000 Well, yeah. 1.00

00:48:40.000 Poor bastard. 0.99

00:48:41.000 But my fear is that they go after his backup account now. 0.99

00:48:44.000 Yeah. 0.93

00:48:45.000 Which is kind of fucked because I actually had a conversation with Zuckerberg about him. 0.97

00:48:49.000 He's like, do you like the way he talks online? 0.96

00:48:51.000 I'm like, it's fun.

00:48:52.000 No one's getting hurt.

00:48:53.000 The people that he's doing this to are also people like that.

00:48:57.000 Now, you could be that person who wants every martial artist to behave like a noble warrior who's out there testing their skills with respect and dignity. 0.87

00:49:07.000 Or you could be the guy that fucking fills up arenas because people want to come to see him. 0.95

00:49:12.000 That's what Floyd Mayweather is. 0.99

00:49:13.000 That's what Gordon Ryan is. 0.99

00:49:15.000 Like the elite of the elite who talk a ton of shit and there's a psychological warfare aspect that I don't think, I think non-competitors don't understand that. 0.99

00:49:23.000 There's a thing about that guy. 1.00

00:49:25.000 He gets into your fucking head. 1.00

00:49:27.000 When you go to sleep at night and you think about the fucking Instagram post he made about you, you're like, fuck! 1.00

00:49:34.000 There's part of that. 1.00

00:49:36.000 What were his thoughts on the way that he communicated?

00:49:39.000 He doesn't like it.

00:49:40.000 You know, Zuckerberg is a respectful martial artist.

00:49:42.000 He's doing martial arts now, and I think he's a nice guy.

00:49:46.000 And I think he wants other people to be nice guys, and he doesn't want that kind of harassment and bullying on social media networks.

00:49:53.000 But I think that's censorship.

00:49:55.000 And I don't think censorship is ultimately good.

00:49:57.000 I think you have to, like, if people don't like the way he's behaving, you should not follow him.

00:50:01.000 You should not pay attention to him.

00:50:03.000 You should not support him.

00:50:04.000 You should not go to see him.

00:50:06.000 Or if you do like it, and you're like me, and you don't have a problem with it at all, and you think it's funny, you know, you should follow him.

00:50:13.000 I mean, this is not a terrible person.

00:50:15.000 He's not a bad guy.

00:50:16.000 In fact, he's exemplary.

00:50:18.000 He's a guy who's doing something that's very extraordinary.

00:50:21.000 He's, you know, what Goggins likes to call, uncommon amongst uncommon men.

00:50:26.000 And that's what he is.

00:50:28.000 He's as uncommon as you get. 0.99

00:50:29.000 He's the fucking best ever. 1.00

00:50:31.000 Like, leave him alone! 0.99

00:50:32.000 It worries me, though, that, you know, obviously, Zuckerberg maybe replaced him with somebody else, because that guy literally could probably throw the switches at these companies.

00:50:43.000 But what does it matter whether or not I like the way he conducts himself online?

00:50:47.000 Like, I'm super appreciative of the rights that we have in this country, but I've yet to come one that says you have the right not to be offended at any point in your life.

00:50:55.000 You should be offended at some things.

00:50:57.000 It's not bad for you.

00:50:58.000 You should be offended and they should figure out why you're being offended.

00:51:01.000 Well, you also have the choice, like you said.

00:51:03.000 I don't know if people know this who are on Instagram or Facebook.

00:51:05.000 It's really easy to click the same button that you click to follow that person and not have to deal with that.

00:51:10.000 You can block them and you'll never see anything they post ever again.

00:51:12.000 That's bullying.

00:51:15.000 We're now in an age where facts have feelings.

00:51:18.000 Facts, in fact, have feelings.

00:51:19.000 But there's an element of showmanship in anything you do.

00:51:23.000 And he understands that well.

00:51:25.000 Even in the SEAL teams, there was an element of showmanship.

00:51:27.000 If you don't know what you're doing, just look good.

00:51:29.000 That's one of the rules.

00:51:31.000 I'll give Jocko.

00:51:32.000 There's an element of Jocko that I highly respect.

00:51:36.000 He's got the showmanship piece.

00:51:37.000 100%.

00:51:37.000 Down.

00:51:38.000 And he won a lot of fanfare because of that.

00:51:41.000 He does that well.

00:51:42.000 But you look at our industry, the highest performers are also the wildest variables.

00:51:51.000 To attain that level, to get to that level, there is an imbalance, an imbalance amongst those guys.

00:51:58.000 Well, look at MMA. Look at Jon Jones.

00:52:00.000 He's the wildest motherfucker ever. 0.99

00:52:02.000 And he's the best. 0.99

00:52:03.000 I mean, there's a reason why he's the greatest light heavyweight of all time. 0.98

00:52:06.000 He's fucking wild. 0.99

00:52:08.000 He's a wild dude. 0.99

00:52:09.000 I mean, when he was fighting Daniel Cormier and they were doing the press conference, he said, I beat you when I was on coke.

00:52:16.000 You know how funny that is? 1.00

00:52:18.000 That's fucking funny, man, because that fucks with a guy. 0.99

00:52:21.000 When the guy's getting up in the morning and eating oats and drinking distilled water and fucking jogging up hills and this dude's doing blow. 1.00

00:52:27.000 Looking in the mirror as you're brushing her teeth like, fuck! 1.00

00:52:30.000 Partying, dancing, kicks your ass. 1.00

00:52:34.000 Will he be back? 1.00

00:52:35.000 Yes!

00:52:36.000 Yes, he'll be back.

00:52:37.000 Yeah, he'll be back as a heavyweight.

00:52:39.000 And, you know, it's a lot of exciting challenges for him at heavyweight.

00:52:42.000 I like the fact that he decided to do that.

00:52:44.000 It's interesting.

00:52:45.000 I think he's still the best light heavyweight in the world.

00:52:47.000 And he can still make the weight.

00:52:49.000 I mean, he's not really a heavyweight.

00:52:50.000 He's deciding to become a heavyweight.

00:52:52.000 He's doing it through deadlifting and squatting and, like, serious powerlifting.

00:52:56.000 You know, he's put on a lot of weight.

00:52:58.000 He's put on, I think he's like 253 now or 255 now. 0.99

00:53:02.000 He's fucking, he's a big fella. 0.99

00:53:04.000 Still with the same gas tank? 1.00

00:53:05.000 I don't know.

00:53:07.000 I don't know how you could, honestly.

00:53:10.000 How do you have the same gas tank?

00:53:12.000 You don't see heavyweights operate at the same pace that you see welterweights or lightweights.

00:53:16.000 There's a reason for that.

00:53:17.000 I don't think you can. 0.98

00:53:18.000 And if you look at someone like Demetrius Johnson, who's a fucking whirlwind in there, he's 125 pounds. 0.97

00:53:26.000 The demand for oxygen is very different than Francis Ngannou. 0.96

00:53:31.000 You don't see a guy like Ngannou that fights at that pace.

00:53:34.000 They literally cannot.

00:53:36.000 These variables need to be taken into consideration when you apply tactics and strategy and how you choose to, you know, obviously he has a different amount of force in each shot and that is also the case too.

00:53:47.000 I talked to Max Holloway about that once.

00:53:50.000 We were talking about Jose Aldo, and I was asking him, like, he knew that Aldo was fading after, like, one or two rounds, and he said, it's power.

00:53:59.000 He goes, those guys have more power than me. 0.98

00:54:01.000 He goes, they're hitting harder, you know, and that shit takes up a lot of energy. 1.00

00:54:06.000 And he was kind of laughing about it. 1.00

00:54:07.000 He's like, I don't have any power, man.

00:54:09.000 He's like, those guys have so much more power.

00:54:11.000 He goes, I gotta hit a guy a lot of times to take him out.

00:54:13.000 But these guys, these one-shot guys, they're all like...

00:54:17.000 That's Conor, Conor McGregor, who's got that incredible power.

00:54:21.000 But that power, when you throw at that explosiveness, you're essentially sprinting.

00:54:25.000 Whereas other guys are running marathons.

00:54:27.000 You know, a guy like Max Holloway is putting that volume on you.

00:54:31.000 Nick Diaz puts that volume on you.

00:54:33.000 It's a different type of fighting.

00:54:36.000 I got nothing but respect for those guys.

00:54:37.000 How much would you have to get paid to get in an octagon?

00:54:42.000 A lot of money, and I would not last long.

00:54:44.000 I don't think there's an amount of money that I would do it. 1.00

00:54:47.000 Those guys are out of their damn minds. 0.99

00:54:49.000 You would do it for the right price. 1.00

00:54:50.000 No, I would not.

00:54:51.000 I like to do safe things. 1.00

00:54:53.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

00:54:54.000 This is the guy that has a world record for a flying squirrel suit. 1.00

00:54:58.000 I used to have the world record.

00:54:59.000 Oh, who's got it now?

00:55:01.000 Does it bother you?

00:55:02.000 No, no.

00:55:03.000 Not even a little?

00:55:04.000 No.

00:55:05.000 I was doing it for fundraising.

00:55:08.000 I think it bothers you.

00:55:09.000 There's nothing worse than it has been.

00:55:13.000 That's true.

00:55:13.000 Are you speaking from experience?

00:55:15.000 I would kill yourself. 1.00

00:55:16.000 I would kill yourself. 1.00

00:55:19.000 Oh my God, we're going to get kicked off of Spotify. 0.99

00:55:24.000 Luckily, Daniel Ek, the CEO of Spotify, is an MMA fan, so I don't think that's happening.

00:55:29.000 I'm dead serious.

00:55:30.000 Those guys, to me, they're out of their mind.

00:55:32.000 Yeah, well, that's what they want to do.

00:55:33.000 They want to be that guy.

00:55:35.000 They want to be the top of the heap. 1.00

00:55:36.000 They want to be that fucking warrior standing on a pile of heads. 1.00

00:55:39.000 And there's no other way to do it. 0.99

00:55:41.000 If you want to be the top dog in MMA, That's a weird desire, but a lot of people have it.

00:55:47.000 It's an extraordinary accomplishment to become a guy like that.

00:55:51.000 There's very few people that are capable of doing it.

00:55:54.000 There's a lot of talk in MMA about fighter pay and whether they should be paid more. 0.99

00:55:58.000 I think they should, but I'm not a fucking businessman. 0.97

00:56:01.000 I don't sit down and crunch the numbers. 0.98

00:56:03.000 I don't understand how much it costs to run a promotion.

00:56:06.000 It's a lot.

00:56:07.000 Yeah.

00:56:23.000 They barely get by. 0.99

00:56:25.000 But that's because they don't put asses in seats. 1.00

00:56:27.000 There's a direct correlation between how many people are coming, they're plopping down money. 0.97

00:56:32.000 Oh, Volkanovski's fighting? 1.00

00:56:34.000 Fuck yeah! 1.00

00:56:35.000 They put that money down. 1.00

00:56:36.000 Why did they put that money down? 0.99

00:56:37.000 Because Volkanovski's a fucking animal and they want to see that guy perform. 0.99

00:56:41.000 He's being paid for what he's done. 0.99

00:56:44.000 And if he's not being compensated fairly at that level, that's a different conversation. 0.99

00:56:49.000 There's contracts, there's negotiations, there's managers, there's a lot of shit involved in running a business. 0.97

00:56:54.000 That's not my world. 0.99

00:56:55.000 I don't understand it.

00:56:56.000 I don't put any thought into it.

00:56:58.000 So I can talk about it from respect and The way I feel about fighters, I feel like they should be paid a lot of money.

00:57:04.000 I feel like you should be able to retire and, you know, your body is essentially broken. 0.99

00:57:09.000 By the time these guys are 40 years old and they're getting out of the game, their fucking knees are shot. 0.99

00:57:13.000 Michael Bisping has two artificial knees now. 0.99

00:57:15.000 He's missing an eye.

00:57:16.000 His one eye is dead. 0.99

00:57:17.000 I mean, it's a fucking hard world. 0.99

00:57:20.000 It's a hard world. 0.98

00:57:22.000 And I feel like you should be able to retire, and that should be, you're good. 0.99

00:57:26.000 You should have enough money in the bank, so if you don't live like an asshole, you should be able to take care of yourself forever. 0.99

00:57:32.000 Educate me here. 0.99

00:57:33.000 So the NFL has a players' union.

00:57:36.000 Have the MMA fighters for the different leagues created sort of fighter unions?

00:57:41.000 There's been discussion about the problem.

00:57:42.000 The difference is MMA fighters are individuals competing against other individuals.

00:57:48.000 It's not a team sport.

00:57:50.000 I could see the merit in having a structure like a union.

00:57:54.000 I just don't see fighters going along with it.

00:57:58.000 Because, like, let's say, like, a big fight's coming up, right?

00:58:01.000 Like, Alex Pajera is fighting Israel Adesanya. 0.96

00:58:06.000 If Pajera gets injured, and he can't fight Adesanya, and, you know, there's a bunch of people that are saying, like, I want to fight, and then there's, well, you have to get paid the same amount as Pajera, this is our union dues, and then someone comes along and says, listen, I'll fucking take that shot for half that money, 0.90

00:58:22.000 because I want to be the fucking champion, and I want that opportunity.

00:58:25.000 You're going to get fighters that cross that line. 0.98

00:58:27.000 And if there's no union, that makes it easier to do.

00:58:30.000 Could you conceivably form a union where people would get paid the correct amount?

00:58:37.000 Yes, I think it could be done.

00:58:38.000 I don't know how to do it.

00:58:39.000 I don't know how it could be structured.

00:58:42.000 But I think there's some arguments.

00:58:43.000 There's some arguments that a union would be a good thing.

00:58:45.000 And then there's some arguments that...

00:58:48.000 It's better to have a group like the UFC, an organization that cares deeply about the fighters and tries to compensate them fairly.

00:58:56.000 Do they?

00:58:57.000 You know, again, it's not my world.

00:58:59.000 This is my world.

00:59:00.000 I sit down. 1.00

00:59:01.000 I put the fucking headsets on. 1.00

00:59:02.000 I understand what these guys are capable of. 1.00

00:59:04.000 I know their history.

00:59:05.000 I know what they're doing.

00:59:06.000 I talk about what's happening during the fight.

00:59:08.000 I try to give honor and respect to it.

00:59:10.000 That's what I do.

00:59:12.000 Other than that, all I can say is I want them to be compensated fairly.

00:59:16.000 How many fights have you called at this point?

00:59:17.000 Thousands.

00:59:18.000 I have no idea. 1.00

00:59:19.000 What's the wildest shit you've ever seen go on in there? 1.00

00:59:22.000 Broken legs. 1.00

00:59:24.000 Like the shin on shin?

00:59:25.000 Shin on shins are the worst. 1.00

00:59:26.000 Because those guys are never the same again.

00:59:29.000 Never the same.

00:59:29.000 No one breaks a leg and is ever the same again.

00:59:33.000 Yeah, I have a hard time watching those.

00:59:35.000 I can only watch it once.

00:59:36.000 I cannot watch it when you guys start doing the slow motion replays.

00:59:40.000 KOs are rough, but guys have bounced back from KOs again. 0.98

00:59:43.000 Bisping, like that fucking KO against Dan Henderson. 0.98

00:59:46.000 It was one of the worst KOs I've ever seen in my life. 0.99

00:59:47.000 He got flatlined and then Bisping is out cold and Henderson leaps through the air and smashes him in the face while he's unconscious.

00:59:56.000 I mean, it's like he literally has...

00:59:59.000 Henderson's logo is an image of him flying through the air, delivering this haymaker to an unconscious Michael Bisping.

01:00:08.000 Find Henderson's logo. 0.99

01:00:10.000 I mean, this is like Henderson's fuck you to Michael Bisping. 0.98

01:00:12.000 He literally made a logo of him hitting Bisping when he was out cold. 0.99

01:00:18.000 It's a power statement.

01:00:18.000 That punch right there in the left corner.

01:00:21.000 That's him.

01:00:22.000 That is him.

01:00:23.000 That is that.

01:00:25.000 That's his most, you know, historic moment.

01:00:29.000 His most brutal, legendary moment.

01:00:33.000 Look at the one with the red coat.

01:00:34.000 I mean, you know how crazy that is?

01:00:35.000 The red coat one is hilarious.

01:00:38.000 But you know how brutal that is? 0.99

01:00:39.000 Like, the guy's fucking logo is him delivering a flying right hand. 0.99

01:00:45.000 And he had one of the greatest right hands in the history of the sport. 0.99

01:00:49.000 If you ever hug Dan Henderson, he feels like this table.

01:00:53.000 He's made out of wood.

01:00:54.000 There's certain dudes, they just have a different composition to their body. 0.99

01:00:58.000 Like, I talked to his massage therapist, And she was like, his fucking body is like, you can't get in there. 0.99

01:01:05.000 Like, she'd be like trying to, you're not going anywhere. 1.00

01:01:08.000 He's so fucking dense. 0.98

01:01:09.000 And when he would deliver a right hand, it was just preposterous. 1.00

01:01:13.000 And he would load that fucking thing up and just always look for it, always look for it. 1.00

01:01:17.000 And when he lands at it, you're fucked. 1.00

01:01:19.000 He knocked out Fedor! 1.00

01:01:21.000 That fucking guy is a middleweight, and he knocked out one of the greatest heavyweights of all time in a fight where he was in trouble. 0.99

01:01:28.000 He got caught in a bad situation. 1.00

01:01:30.000 He was on the bottom.

01:01:31.000 Fedor is cracking him, and he escapes.

01:01:33.000 He sneaks out the side and cracks him with an uppercut and then lands a couple follow-up shots and puts him out. 1.00

01:01:39.000 That motherfucker could punch. 1.00

01:01:42.000 And imagine his logo is him flying through the air, hitting an unconscious opponent. 1.00

01:01:49.000 It's quite the boss move, for sure. 1.00

01:01:52.000 That is like pulling your dick out and, you know, laying it on the table. 1.00

01:01:56.000 And having a big old hog. 1.00

01:01:57.000 Big old hog. 1.00

01:02:00.000 Big old donkey dick. 1.00

01:02:02.000 Have you ever been hugged by dudes where you're just like, don't ever hug me again? 1.00

01:02:05.000 Yeah, all the time. 0.99

01:02:07.000 I fucking hug all those guys. 1.00

01:02:09.000 Insane. 1.00

01:02:10.000 Yeah, man. 1.00

01:02:10.000 I mean, look, when you meet Brock Lesnar, you're like, what the fuck are you? 1.00

01:02:15.000 I had a joke about Brock Lesnar. 1.00

01:02:16.000 I'm like, I'm not worried that Brock Lesnar would fuck me. 1.00

01:02:19.000 I'm worried he would use me as a condom to fuck something way bigger. 1.00

01:02:25.000 Breaking into the zoo, like, where are we going? 1.00

01:02:27.000 Shut the fuck up! 1.00

01:02:28.000 Okay? 1.00

01:02:30.000 Yeah.

01:02:31.000 Yeah, I mean, there's different kinds of humans in this world.

01:02:34.000 Tim feels like that.

01:02:35.000 Oh, yeah. 0.98

01:02:35.000 Fucking, to my own poor decision-making, was rolling around with Tim this morning for a little bit, doing wrestling practice. 0.98

01:02:41.000 He feels exactly the same way. 1.00

01:02:43.000 Yeah, he's a giant chimp. 1.00

01:02:44.000 That's how I was going to describe him. 0.97

01:02:45.000 He's an ape, for sure. 1.00

01:02:46.000 He is a giant chimpanzee with a psychotic mind. 0.99

01:02:50.000 He's a beautiful human being and a great American. 1.00

01:02:52.000 I was going to say, he's one of the kindest people I've ever met, and he is so ridiculously capable and dangerous.

01:02:58.000 When I asked that question, that's exactly who I was thinking of.

01:03:01.000 Because when I moved to Austin in 2015, there was a workout going on at Onnit, where they were raising money for some veteran charity.

01:03:08.000 And we had a mutual friend who basically had told Tim about me and, hey, he's in the military, and he just comes up and he wraps his arms around me.

01:03:17.000 And I felt so uncomfortable.

01:03:21.000 I'm waiting for it to end, and it seemed like he was just sinking it in, almost like, hey, good to meet you. 0.98

01:03:27.000 I was taking a picture with him today, and he was alternating between grabbing my balls and biting me on the shoulder for the picture. 0.98

01:03:33.000 So I'm professional. 0.99

01:03:35.000 So unprofessional.

01:03:35.000 Yeah, there's different kinds of humans.

01:03:38.000 But what am I going to do about it?

01:03:39.000 I'm like, Tim, please stop.

01:03:40.000 You're going to have to get on steroids. 1.00

01:03:41.000 Have you ever met Yoel Romero?

01:03:43.000 No.

01:03:44.000 That's the freak of all freaks. 0.86

01:03:45.000 He's the freak of all freaks. 0.65

01:03:47.000 All the freak athletes that I've ever met in my life.

01:03:49.000 I talked to Luke Rockhold about him, and he's like, even when you hit that guy, he's made out of metal.

01:03:56.000 Yoel Romero is a famous story.

01:03:58.000 I've told him before.

01:03:58.000 Forgive me if you've heard this.

01:04:00.000 He went to a doctor, because UFC sent him to this doctor.

01:04:04.000 After one of his fights, because he had a fractured orbital, and the doctor examines him and then calls the UFC and goes, where did you find this guy? 0.84

01:04:15.000 And he goes, yeah, he's fucking amazing. 0.69

01:04:16.000 He goes, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. 0.99

01:04:18.000 I've never seen a human like him.

01:04:21.000 He goes, I have been studying medicine and practicing medicine for more than 40 years.

01:04:26.000 He goes, I've never seen a person like this.

01:04:29.000 He goes, the ligaments and the tendons in his eyes are three times larger than a normal person's.

01:04:36.000 Like the structure of his face is different.

01:04:39.000 He had a fractured bone in his orbital.

01:04:41.000 He said they brought him in a few days later.

01:04:43.000 He goes, it's already healing.

01:04:46.000 That's Yoel.

01:04:49.000 I mean, he was on the Cuban Olympic wrestling team and he was a part of that program.

01:04:57.000 He came on the podcast and Joey Diaz translated.

01:05:01.000 He was speaking Spanish and Joey's also Cuban.

01:05:05.000 It was a beautiful thing. 1.00

01:05:07.000 The way he was saying, the way he was describing it, he was like, when you go to that program, he goes, you become a fucking machine. 0.99

01:05:15.000 You become a machine. 0.97

01:05:17.000 You know, the elite wrestlers get better food, they eat more often, and so it, you know, motivates the people below him who they're training with every day to beat them and get better.

01:05:31.000 Yoel was a freak.

01:05:32.000 And you gotta understand, Yoel's still elite, and he's like 43 or 44 years old. 1.00

01:05:39.000 He's a fucking freak, man. 1.00

01:05:41.000 He's a fucking freak. 1.00

01:05:42.000 By the way, cheated against Tim Kennedy. 1.00

01:05:44.000 Let's just say that right now. 0.98

01:05:47.000 Tim Kennedy had him really badly hurt, cracked him, rocked him, and his corner did some sneaky shit and kept him on the stool. 0.99

01:05:54.000 What do you mean sneaky shit? 0.99

01:05:54.000 Sneaky shit where he didn't come out at the beginning of the round. 0.99

01:05:58.000 They get one minute, right? 1.00

01:05:59.000 They get one minute, and he was still sitting down, and Tim Kennedy's walking around standing up. 0.99

01:06:05.000 He's like, what the fuck is going on?

01:06:07.000 And it rattled Tim, and Tim to this day said that he made a mental error getting upset and flustered about it, and it really cost him in the fight. 0.75

01:06:16.000 But also, he fought Yoel Romero, and Tim wound up losing that fight.

01:06:20.000 But he's got a legitimate argument that they should have stopped that fight.

01:06:23.000 He was not ready.

01:06:24.000 At the beginning of the round after, you know, Tim had him, see if you can find that.

01:06:28.000 Because Tim had him badly hurt.

01:06:30.000 Rocked him.

01:06:31.000 And one of the worst times that Yoel had ever been rocked in a fight.

01:06:33.000 Like probably almost barely made it to the chair at the end of the round?

01:06:36.000 Barely made it.

01:06:37.000 Barely made it. 0.99

01:06:38.000 And he got to the corner, sat down, and the corner, look, they did their fucking job. 0.98

01:06:43.000 Just like Angelo Dundee did with Cassius Clay when he fought in England. 1.00

01:06:49.000 What the fuck is that guy's name? 0.98

01:06:51.000 So a gentleman in England who caught, it's not the tip of my tongue, who caught Cassius Clay when he was young with a vicious left hook and dropped him. 1.00

01:07:00.000 And Angelo Dundee cut his gloves and they had to change his gloves.

01:07:03.000 Like, oh, his gloves are wrecking.

01:07:04.000 We've got to get new gloves.

01:07:06.000 It's going to take a few.

01:07:07.000 Yeah.

01:07:08.000 And they kind of did the same sort of deal.

01:07:10.000 Let's see if you can find it.

01:07:11.000 Did you find it?

01:07:12.000 They did the same sort of deal with Yoel. 0.99

01:07:15.000 Yoel, they kept him sitting down, and Tim's walking around going, what the fuck? 0.97

01:07:19.000 Like, he got an extra, like, I want to say 20, 30 seconds. 0.97

01:07:23.000 Henry Cooper is the guy with Muhammad Ali.

01:07:25.000 He caught him with a left hook. 0.53

01:07:26.000 So here's Tim.

01:07:27.000 Tim cracks him.

01:07:29.000 He hits him with this uppercut and another one.

01:07:30.000 Tim's got him.

01:07:31.000 Bam! 0.98

01:07:31.000 Look at this! 0.98

01:07:32.000 Left hand, right hand.

01:07:33.000 I mean, he's got him badly hurt.

01:07:34.000 Look at that.

01:07:34.000 Right hand, left hand.

01:07:36.000 So this is the end of the round, goes back to his corner. 0.99

01:07:38.000 Tim's got him fucked, right? 0.99

01:07:40.000 Look at him. 1.00

01:07:40.000 He's really bad. 1.00

01:07:42.000 Now, at the end of the round, the round's over, and Tim's there, and he's still sitting down.

01:07:46.000 The round's supposed to start.

01:07:47.000 He's still on his stool.

01:07:49.000 They're wiping him off.

01:07:50.000 They took all this extra time.

01:07:52.000 And then finally, I want to say it's a legit 20, 30 seconds later, Yoel gets up, and Yoel eventually catches Tim with that right hand and finishes him.

01:08:03.000 And Tim lost that fight.

01:08:05.000 But there's a real argument that he should have won that fight.

01:08:08.000 There's a real argument that he should have stopped that fight when he was not ready and getting up at the beginning of the round.

01:08:13.000 Because if you don't get up, you're basically quitting.

01:08:17.000 You're saying, I'm not ready, which means you're not ready to fight, which means the fight's over.

01:08:22.000 God, I wish I'd gotten into this stuff.

01:08:24.000 Like, paying attention to this earlier.

01:08:26.000 I've only been watching UFC for the past few years, because it now makes sense to me what the hell they're doing.

01:08:31.000 Dude, you gotta come with me.

01:08:32.000 You gotta come with me and sit next to me. 0.99

01:08:33.000 I mean, can I have a headset and say shit that's not happening? 1.00

01:08:37.000 No, you can't say shit. 1.00

01:08:38.000 He is going for an inverted fucking... 1.00

01:08:41.000 You can sit there. 0.99

01:08:43.000 Well, you'll know the jiu-jitsu.

01:08:44.000 You're a brown belt. 0.96

01:08:44.000 You know the jiu-jitsu. 0.96

01:08:45.000 Now I know.

01:08:46.000 I had no appreciation for it, though, until I started training.

01:08:48.000 I actually had no interest in watching it. 1.00

01:08:51.000 And this is how fucking stupid I am. 0.99

01:08:53.000 I'd be like, well, why doesn't the guy just stand up? 1.00

01:08:56.000 Just stand up.

01:08:58.000 Why are they up against the cage?

01:08:59.000 That's boring.

01:09:01.000 How hard is that?

01:09:02.000 Yeah.

01:09:02.000 Then you get somebody who puts their hands on you a little bit like, oh, I can't stand up right now.

01:09:07.000 Yeah, you ain't going nowhere.

01:09:08.000 And I also can't get off this cage.

01:09:09.000 Yeah, well, that's a boring part of fighting that's necessary.

01:09:13.000 I am a big advocate of never removing people from a cage and never standing people up.

01:09:19.000 I think if a guy can hold you down, the round is five minutes long. 1.00

01:09:23.000 If he can hold you down and you can't get up, tough shit. 0.99

01:09:25.000 And a lot of people say, no, you gotta have stand-ups, otherwise people just take you down and hold you down. 0.99

01:09:29.000 I'm like, so what?

01:09:30.000 Then they take you down and hold you down.

01:09:31.000 That's part of the fight.

01:09:33.000 It's still less boring than baseball. 1.00

01:09:35.000 So shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:09:37.000 I think once, I mean, obviously not everybody trains, but once you start training a little bit, you have an appreciation for how hard it is to actually hold down somebody your size, probably the same skill level. 1.00

01:09:48.000 That wants to get up. 0.94

01:09:49.000 Like, the cage work, it can look boring, but again, now they understand what's going on in the fight for the underhook and the head, you're like, oh shit, this is badass. 0.78

01:09:56.000 You know, there's another argument, too, that I think they should add weapons. 0.99

01:10:00.000 Like, there's a lot of shit that you can't do on the—not weapons, like knives and shit. 0.98

01:10:03.000 Hold on, I was going to say, are we talking a golf club? 0.99

01:10:05.000 What are we talking— I mean knees on the ground, knees to the head, knees to the head on the ground, kicks to the head on the ground.

01:10:13.000 They're doing that in one FC and they're doing it in a cage and a lot of people think it shouldn't happen in a cage because there's times where you can't get away and you're trapped and someone could soccer kick you or stomp you.

01:10:25.000 But that's a real fight.

01:10:27.000 If the problem is the cage, I think they should eliminate the cage.

01:10:30.000 I don't think they should eliminate those weapons.

01:10:31.000 Because there's positions where guys go into where it appears like they're safe.

01:10:36.000 Like if a guy's in a turtle position and you've got like a head and arm and you're above him, there's an amazing option to knee someone in the head and stop the fight.

01:10:45.000 And you saw a lot of that in Pride.

01:10:47.000 Like Mark Coleman stopped a lot of guys in Pride because he would get to that position and he would drop knees on their head.

01:10:52.000 Because you should be able to.

01:10:53.000 That's a legitimate position.

01:10:54.000 If you can knee someone standing and you can knee them in a clinch, why can't you knee them when they're on the ground?

01:11:01.000 You should be able to.

01:11:02.000 It's a legitimate move.

01:11:04.000 And if knees are legal, if a knee to a head is legal, why isn't it legal on the ground?

01:11:09.000 Why are we making it safer to fight with strikes on the ground?

01:11:12.000 I don't think you should.

01:11:14.000 It's the same reason people are in an uproar about tear gas and training.

01:11:18.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:11:18.000 But this is fucking cage fighting! 0.99

01:11:20.000 It's like this is the last bastion of chaos in combat sports. 0.98

01:11:25.000 And to eliminate certain weapons, I think they eliminated some things initially in the beginning because they felt like those things were too dangerous.

01:11:32.000 That's the reason to this day you can't do a 12 to 6 elbow.

01:11:35.000 Which makes zero sense, because it's not even the most strong elbow.

01:11:39.000 The most powerful elbow is actually an elbow where you drive down, like, to the side.

01:11:43.000 The most powerful elbow, I believe, is like this.

01:11:46.000 It's not like this, because this is not necessarily the best move, like, kinetically.

01:11:53.000 I think kinetically, the shoulder comes back and it's a downward elbow, probably has more force.

01:11:58.000 And I'd like that measured.

01:12:00.000 Because this is still illegal in 2022. It's so dumb. 0.99

01:12:04.000 And the reason why it was illegal, and Big John McCarthy talked about this, Big John, in the early days, you know, he was a martial artist, black belt in jiu-jitsu, and he had to go, and he was the referee. 0.98

01:12:14.000 He had to go in front of these athletic commissions and talk to them about the sport and try to convince these people to approve it. 0.93

01:12:19.000 And one of the things these fucking normies, they didn't like the fact that people could break bricks on TV. Like on ESPN, you see the karate demonstration. 0.97

01:12:28.000 And you're like, well, we can't have that.

01:12:29.000 People could break bricks like that.

01:12:31.000 They could kill people.

01:12:31.000 So they go, okay.

01:12:32.000 Alright, we'll make that move illegal. 0.98

01:12:34.000 Okay, fine.

01:12:35.000 So the 12 to 6 elbow is illegal to this day and it's a remnant of ignorance.

01:12:41.000 That's all it is.

01:12:42.000 Doesn't make any sense. 0.99

01:12:43.000 That's a fucking legitimate move. 0.98

01:12:45.000 If you can elbow someone on the ground, why can't you do it that way? 0.99

01:12:48.000 You fucking most certainly should be able to do it that way. 1.00

01:12:51.000 It's so dumb. 1.00

01:12:52.000 Doesn't make any sense. 0.98

01:12:54.000 I want to see all of that, and I also want to see in the third round a garden rake come over the top. 0.99

01:12:59.000 Because shit's going to get wild. 0.99

01:13:01.000 Well, have you seen those... 1.00

01:13:01.000 Where the crowd can vote in a weapon? 1.00

01:13:03.000 Yeah, the crowd gets to vote on the tool. 1.00

01:13:05.000 It might be a pipe, garden rake, fucking nine iron. 0.99

01:13:09.000 They're probably already doing that in Russia. 0.99

01:13:11.000 In Russia, they're probably already doing that.

01:13:13.000 Have you seen the phone booth fighting?

01:13:14.000 Yes.

01:13:15.000 Yes.

01:13:15.000 They do in cars now.

01:13:16.000 They're buckled into their seat, and they start the fight while they're in a car, and they have to get out of the buckle and beat the shit out of each other. 0.80

01:13:23.000 They're in a convertible. 0.99

01:13:24.000 I have a deep respect for how crazy Russians are. 1.00

01:13:29.000 You know one thing I like? 1.00

01:13:31.000 In America, they start off sitting in a fucking convertible, and then they're beating the shit out of each other in a car. 0.99

01:13:39.000 It's not ideal. 0.99

01:13:40.000 Well, it's not ideal for kickers.

01:13:43.000 You basically take all the kicks out of the equation. 0.62

01:13:46.000 It's such a silly way to fight, though. 1.00

01:13:48.000 It's really dumb. 0.99

01:13:48.000 The phone booth is better. 0.99

01:13:49.000 There's no escape.

01:13:50.000 They can barely turn around. 0.99

01:13:52.000 This is so silly! 0.99

01:13:54.000 And if you're gonna have a phone booth fight, you should definitely have headbutts. 0.98

01:13:58.000 Like David LeDuc, he would shine in phone books.

01:14:01.000 In phone booths, rather.

01:14:03.000 Because, you know, David LeDuc, who's the king of Latwe, that's that bare-knuckle Muay Thai style.

01:14:10.000 Have you ever seen that?

01:14:11.000 No.

01:14:11.000 They fight in Myanmar.

01:14:12.000 Yeah, David LaDuke, he's been on the podcast before. 1.00

01:14:16.000 He's a fucking savage man. 0.99

01:14:17.000 In his style of fighting, they incorporate headbutts. 1.00

01:14:21.000 So he practices headbutts with the mitts.

01:14:24.000 So he's like, his combinations involve headbutts.

01:14:27.000 It's like crack, one, two, bam, headbutt, elbow, headbutt.

01:14:30.000 Like he throws them in, in like technical combinations.

01:14:34.000 So that would be good for him in there. 0.98

01:14:36.000 The headbutts were a big part of Mark Coleman's early career, too, because he would get guys on the ground and he would get into their guard and fucking headbutt him in the face and punch him in the face. 0.98

01:14:45.000 This is David. 0.99

01:14:46.000 Oh, no.

01:14:47.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

01:14:47.000 He's a fucking animal. 1.00

01:14:48.000 He's breaking coconuts with his head. 1.00

01:14:52.000 All I can think of when I see that video is I want to see him misjudge it and come in right under that and just hit the tree.

01:14:59.000 Well, you'd probably break the tree, too.

01:15:00.000 God. 0.79

01:15:01.000 Dude's got a hard-ass head.

01:15:02.000 You know what's amazing is the evolution of fighting or fight training in the military.

01:15:06.000 Because you came in in 96. I'm sure it was some random system, and I don't want to name names.

01:15:12.000 Yeah, I'm trying to think about how I could discuss this without ending up in a lawsuit against me.

01:15:16.000 Let's just say it was wildly ineffective and pitched as the solution, you'll never believe this, to everything.

01:15:22.000 What style was it?

01:15:23.000 Was it like a... 0.99

01:15:25.000 Bullshit suit, I would say. 0.99

01:15:27.000 Was it like trapping hands and stuff? 1.00

01:15:30.000 What was it?

01:15:32.000 We've got to be very careful here.

01:15:35.000 Let's just say, as the evolution of UFC took more substantial weight...

01:15:42.000 People realized what was effective.

01:15:44.000 Oh, yes.

01:15:45.000 And especially, you know, actually, Tim Kennedy as well probably was very influential in the military saying, hey, listen.

01:15:52.000 This sort of mixed martial arts approach to our job in the military is absolutely applicable even to prisoner handling.

01:16:00.000 It would save lives because I've seen situations induced, and I think this happens sometimes with law enforcement as well, where you reach the limit of your tools.

01:16:11.000 And you know as well as I do, if you apply too much pressure in certain places, people are going to freak the fuck out.

01:16:18.000 And you probably could get compliance with a lot less force if you knew what you were doing.

01:16:22.000 Right.

01:16:23.000 And so I've seen people lose their lives because the person trying to control them We're good to go.

01:16:53.000 And then it would switch.

01:16:54.000 So I'd either have a headache in the morning or I'd have a headache in the evening.

01:16:57.000 And it was looking – and again, I have not been training long from a jiu-jitsu perspective.

01:17:02.000 But looking back at it now and understanding more and seeing more, the only way that I can describe it is it was nonsense.

01:17:12.000 But it was being taught at the highest level.

01:17:15.000 Because they just didn't know.

01:17:17.000 Well, certain people understood.

01:17:19.000 But there's also – you have to understand what the government contracting – Each person is selling their system and there's some politics, but it got better and better.

01:17:29.000 I mean, where you were at, they were bringing in Rasputin.

01:17:33.000 Now there's like a Matt's base dojo full-time coach.

01:17:37.000 I'm sorry.

01:17:39.000 Where did the name Rasputin come from? 1.00

01:17:41.000 Big dicks. 1.00

01:17:42.000 The Russian guy with the big dick. 1.00

01:17:44.000 Dave Carilla, I believe it is. 1.00

01:17:47.000 The gorilla.

01:17:48.000 Camarillo?

01:17:48.000 Camarillo, thank you.

01:17:49.000 Full-time coaches, dedicated Matt Ayers.

01:17:51.000 So they bring him in to train. 0.98

01:17:52.000 I mean, my last troop chief was heavy combatives, but dude, I always got my ass beat when we were training. 0.88

01:18:00.000 It's probably one of the biggest misconceptions. 0.99

01:18:02.000 People are like, so can you kill somebody with your pinky?

01:18:04.000 It's like, no, it's this one right here. 0.93

01:18:05.000 No.

01:18:07.000 Actually, I'm not left-handed, so it wouldn't even be that one.

01:18:09.000 But it's like, no, we're not.

01:18:11.000 In the 17 years, one month shy of 17 years that I was in, it was not an emphasis.

01:18:16.000 And again, I wish it had been more of an emphasis because I feel I'm so late to the curve finding jiu-jitsu at 40. I see these little kids.

01:18:24.000 We were training today and there was a black belt rolling with an actual child. 1.00

01:18:29.000 And I'm sitting there like, how soon until that little kid can whip my ass? 1.00

01:18:34.000 That son of a bitch. 1.00

01:18:35.000 Well, how about the Ruotolo brothers? 1.00

01:18:37.000 19 years old. 0.99

01:18:38.000 They're fucking everybody up. 0.99

01:18:39.000 And for clarity, full jealousy on my part that these people found it at that age. 0.98

01:18:44.000 Because I wish that I did.

01:18:45.000 But it wasn't an emphasis.

01:18:46.000 And people think, oh, you came from a...

01:18:48.000 Special operations background?

01:18:50.000 You must be deadly.

01:18:50.000 I'm like, if you give me a gun, I can hold my own, but I don't want to get in a bar fight with anybody.

01:18:55.000 And let's step back.

01:18:56.000 Some people talk about knife fighting.

01:18:58.000 Oh, God.

01:18:58.000 There isn't a seal that I don't know that didn't cut themselves with a knife.

01:19:02.000 Every knife I've ever owned, I've cut myself with.

01:19:04.000 Very peculiar parts of the body as well.

01:19:08.000 But there is.

01:19:09.000 Have you ever heard this story?

01:19:10.000 So, you know, the strength of the SEALs is we travel in packs, and when there's 20 of you in a bar, there's a pretty good...

01:19:16.000 Overwhelming fire superiority.

01:19:18.000 Pretty good probability that you're going to win whatever fight, but that didn't happen in a little town called SLO, San Luis Obispo.

01:19:27.000 Yeah.

01:19:28.000 Where Chuck Liddell...

01:19:29.000 Yeah.

01:19:30.000 So, we used to train in an area in mid-California, and that's where we would go to have fun on the weekend when we weren't training.

01:19:39.000 And as the story goes, and Tim knew this because Tim was close and a guy named Tyson Mendias here in Austin, which runs Archetype Boxing. 0.99

01:19:48.000 So 20 SEALs were in a bar, and they probably were talking a little bit of shit. 0.88

01:19:52.000 And the people behind the bar were part of Chuck Liddell's crew, made some phone calls. 0.99

01:19:58.000 And some seals were laid out in the street, you know, sort of catatonic and arms up, just knocked out.

01:20:05.000 And so it got banned.

01:20:07.000 Seals were not allowed to go there during their time off.

01:20:10.000 But it was an embarrassment.

01:20:12.000 Was it, though?

01:20:13.000 It should have been a reality check.

01:20:14.000 Like, you wrote that check. 0.98

01:20:16.000 Somebody who knows what the fuck they're doing cashed it. 1.00

01:20:18.000 Shut up! 1.00

01:20:19.000 Like, I mean, violent altercations, let's just say like 99.9% of the time, are completely avoidable. 0.99

01:20:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:20:26.000 Just shut your fucking mouth. 1.00

01:20:28.000 But how often have you seen, and there's some dudes that come into teams that are all about MMA, and they make horrible seals. 1.00

01:20:35.000 Or when the rounds start flying, being able to step into a cage does not totally translate to one when you're getting shot at.

01:20:43.000 But I would also say being a team guy doesn't correlate to being able to step into a cage either.

01:20:47.000 There might be some crossover, but they're very different things.

01:20:49.000 That is a good point.

01:20:50.000 Well, you have to treat each thing individually.

01:20:52.000 Just because you're really good at this one thing doesn't mean you're going to excel at the other.

01:20:55.000 You have to put the same amount of effort and focus into the other.

01:20:59.000 There's no other way around it.

01:21:00.000 They're different things.

01:21:02.000 And then there was guys that were good at both.

01:21:04.000 Yep.

01:21:04.000 They just had that mentality.

01:21:06.000 It's a very, very unique community, man.

01:21:08.000 Even like, you know, Dr. Johnny Kim is not exactly...

01:21:12.000 A guy who's training in fight training at all, and he was exceptional in the battlefield.

01:21:17.000 Exceptional.

01:21:18.000 His humility is...

01:21:21.000 Is off the charts.

01:21:23.000 Like, the guy, you can tell he has self-doubt, but off the charts, and he's the sweetest man you'll ever meet.

01:21:30.000 Have you gone to Harvard to get his medical degree?

01:21:31.000 He did.

01:21:33.000 I wrote about him in my book, and funny enough, and I know Johnny well, and we, again, came through BUDS, went to SEAL Team 3 together, we're together.

01:21:39.000 When I wrote the book, I put a 4.0.

01:21:41.000 He got a 4.0 in mathematics at the University of San Diego.

01:21:46.000 And he called me.

01:21:47.000 He was like, Mike, it was actually a 3.98.

01:21:52.000 Hey, Dickhead, you can round that up. 0.99

01:21:54.000 Johnny, shut up. 1.00

01:21:56.000 I rounded up. 0.99

01:21:56.000 Just don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. 0.99

01:22:00.000 But by all rights, he could have returned to the SEAL teams as an officer.

01:22:04.000 Oh, God, yeah.

01:22:05.000 Yeah.

01:22:05.000 But he said, no, I want to become a doctor, and the Navy needs more doctors, and he got into Harvard.

01:22:10.000 Is he training for a Mars mission?

01:22:12.000 Oh, Jesus.

01:22:14.000 He's in the pipeline for a mission right now.

01:22:16.000 He's a legit astronaut.

01:22:18.000 Please make him go second.

01:22:20.000 Don't be the first group that goes to Mars.

01:22:22.000 I think there's going to be a lot of mistakes made.

01:22:24.000 I don't know if second is safety.

01:22:26.000 If mistakes are made, that's the guy you want. 0.97

01:22:27.000 Freeze and run out of oxygen a million, billion miles away or whatever the fuck it is. 0.97

01:22:32.000 Not interested. 0.99

01:22:33.000 Wouldn't be my chosen way to go if I got to choose for sure.

01:22:36.000 You have to have that guy on.

01:22:38.000 I would love to have that guy on.

01:22:39.000 I would love to have that guy on.

01:22:39.000 Blown away by … Has he lived down here in Texas somewhere?

01:22:42.000 Houston.

01:22:42.000 Houston?

01:22:43.000 Well, that is Texas.

01:22:44.000 It's close enough.

01:22:45.000 I'm not great at geography but … Yeah.

01:22:47.000 There's exceptional people in this world and the only way to find out if they're exceptional is to go through exceptional difficult scenarios and really tried and true.

01:22:57.000 No one's just exceptional for no reason.

01:23:01.000 You have to do something.

01:23:03.000 And it's hard.

01:23:04.000 It's hard to do those things.

01:23:05.000 That's why this disparaging of elite combat groups like the SEALs is so disturbing to me.

01:23:11.000 It's because it's done by people who aren't exceptional and who don't understand what's involved in something like that.

01:23:18.000 I'll push back against that a little bit because sometimes their criticism is correct.

01:23:26.000 How so?

01:23:26.000 What have you read that's correct?

01:23:28.000 It's not necessarily what I have read in print, because what I have in my own personal experience, Mike, I'd be curious to see your thoughts on this.

01:23:38.000 Often times in the print medium, I find that they're coming at it from an angle.

01:23:43.000 And they may, I don't know what necessarily their motivation may be.

01:23:47.000 Sometimes I would even describe it as they have an axe to grind.

01:23:49.000 And I don't know where that motivation comes from, from the axe to grind.

01:23:52.000 But I think that transparency from this, like the SEAL community is not perfect.

01:23:58.000 And I can only speak to the SEAL community that I served in.

01:24:01.000 We could have done things better.

01:24:03.000 We could have evolved faster early on in the war.

01:24:07.000 It's tough to evolve at the speed of war.

01:24:09.000 It's very, very hard and we were behind.

01:24:12.000 I don't think that criticism is a bad thing and I don't think that you have to be a SEAL to look at a program and say, hey, maybe you could look at doing something like this to improve it.

01:24:23.000 I think we're good to go.

01:24:37.000 It matters almost as much as the criticism.

01:24:39.000 The motivation to improve it.

01:24:41.000 If they have that.

01:24:42.000 Because some people...

01:24:43.000 And that's what I'm saying.

01:24:43.000 A lot of the things that I read, there's no motivation to improve it.

01:24:46.000 It's a motivation to chisel it away or to hobble it with an axe.

01:24:49.000 And I don't know...

01:24:50.000 Maybe they had a terrible experience with a seal.

01:24:53.000 Guess who else has had a terrible experience with a seal? 1.00

01:24:55.000 Fucking me. 1.00

01:24:55.000 Mike. 1.00

01:24:56.000 Like, I have wanted to kill some of the people that I worked with. 0.99

01:24:59.000 And I've told them that to their face. 0.95

01:25:01.000 And they're also with some of the best friends that I've ever had in my life.

01:25:04.000 It's not a perfect community...

01:25:06.000 Is there any perfect community of human beings?

01:25:09.000 No.

01:25:10.000 But that seems to be what people forget.

01:25:12.000 They're like, we will pick a social media post.

01:25:15.000 And again, we already talked about that video should have never existed in the first place.

01:25:18.000 Like, do your job as an instructor. 1.00

01:25:19.000 Don't film the fucking students for your personal highlight reel. 0.98

01:25:22.000 But, you know, that training needs to exist, but somebody can weaponize that and then begin to try to hobble the community and Yeah. 0.99

01:25:56.000 And then they focus on that one thing despite all the great things that special operations or the military has done for years.

01:26:03.000 It's a lack of a balanced perspective.

01:26:07.000 So here's my perspective of the military, and I don't come from the military lineage.

01:26:11.000 I don't think you did either.

01:26:13.000 Yeah, my father served during Vietnam.

01:26:15.000 Mine did as well.

01:26:16.000 Yeah.

01:26:19.000 The military, at the end of the day, if you look at it in contrast to the American public, it is a leadership incubator.

01:26:27.000 When you go through boot camp or OCS, regardless of whatever service, it's like the greatest onboarding process there is.

01:26:33.000 And they want you to succeed.

01:26:35.000 Even in SEAL training, if 250 kids start, the ultimate goal is 250 graduate.

01:26:40.000 But is that a reality?

01:26:41.000 Absolutely freaking not.

01:26:42.000 We want as many to graduate as possible.

01:26:44.000 And let me be clear, with the training, how people are dropped, It's a policy you've called DOR, drop-on request.

01:26:52.000 They self-select out of training.

01:26:55.000 Rarely do the instructors...

01:26:55.000 Or fail standards.

01:26:56.000 Yes.

01:26:57.000 Rarely, though, do the instructors in first phase have to launch people.

01:27:01.000 Most people predominantly are DOR. And we see them out in a very professional and tactful way.

01:27:07.000 And we make sure, hey, what did you learn from that experience?

01:27:09.000 What do you want to do in the Navy?

01:27:11.000 And sometimes the Navy will just let them exit out of the military.

01:27:15.000 But, dude, we put a precedence on leadership even then, even though, I mean, the two organizations that wrote the manual on leadership are the Army and the Marine Corps.

01:27:25.000 Not the SEAL teams.

01:27:26.000 We copyrighted or plagiarized everything from the Marine Corps and the Army.

01:27:30.000 That's the more correct term. 0.99

01:27:31.000 We didn't copyright shit. 0.98

01:27:35.000 We get it wrong. 0.99

01:27:36.000 It's an organization run by humans.

01:27:39.000 And, you know, the funny part is every kid that comes out of BUDS has the potential to be a great SEAL. You know, the next step is who do they end up under as a mentor?

01:27:51.000 Because we sometimes allow bad actors to stay in the community, and guess what they do?

01:27:56.000 They impact the young SEALs below them.

01:27:58.000 And the young SEALs, whatever they learn from them, believe that that is the standard and that's acceptable within the community.

01:28:05.000 And that leads to bad seals.

01:28:07.000 But, I mean, there was a name up there, Admiral Keith Richards.

01:28:11.000 That guy's a stud, man.

01:28:12.000 Is he perfect?

01:28:13.000 No, but he's a good, good man, and he's in charge of the community now, as was Wyman Howard, who just retired, who was beloved.

01:28:21.000 The guys would do anything for Wyman Howard, and Wyman Howard wouldn't ask them to do anything illegal.

01:28:26.000 That would get them in any trouble whatsoever.

01:28:28.000 I mean, these guys are ethical leaders, but that's overlooked in the media, and they just go for that one thing.

01:28:34.000 Well, it's almost impossible to balance the narrative, too.

01:28:37.000 So how do you combat the video of somebody getting CS gassed on the island?

01:28:42.000 Do you put up 20 videos of training going exactly like what it's supposed to look like?

01:28:46.000 I think you should have someone come on like you that can explain why that's necessary.

01:28:51.000 I think that's the way to combat it.

01:28:53.000 I think that's the only way to combat it.

01:28:55.000 But it goes farther than that, too.

01:29:02.000 What has been asked of people in the military, like the execution of their normal job, and I'll speak only from the special operations perspective.

01:29:10.000 You're operating at What I would describe the limits of the gray area, oftentimes, where decisions are going to be made in a super time compressed environment.

01:29:21.000 Now I'm talking about like on target, super time compressed environment with extremely limited information and mistakes get made.

01:29:30.000 And what I'll say is in every, I've worked with at least every military branch and probably every one of the special operations communities.

01:29:36.000 If you spent only your time looking into the shadows, For things that if you were to measure against, are these above the board or below the board, did they meet the standard?

01:29:47.000 And you're only looking for things that were below the board that didn't meet the standard.

01:29:50.000 You're going to find a lot of them.

01:29:52.000 A lot of those stories are written about or told, and it's hard to, again, balance the narrative.

01:29:58.000 It can make it seem as if that is the ethos of the community.

01:30:03.000 This is who we are.

01:30:03.000 This is who we breed.

01:30:04.000 And it's almost impossible to balance it because I don't know how we talk about Neptune Spear, the raid that killed Bin Laden.

01:30:14.000 Like, that was very public.

01:30:15.000 That was a success.

01:30:16.000 That's a way to balance the narrative or show the success of what the US military is capable of.

01:30:22.000 But how do you show that when you go on a deployment and you're banging out 90, 120 targets doing everything that everybody would want?

01:30:29.000 There's no way to And you shouldn't talk about that.

01:30:32.000 You know what I mean?

01:30:33.000 It's like this negative – the negative aspect of it, which does exist.

01:30:36.000 I'll be the first person to say that not everything is perfect, but it's impossible to balance that with, hey, look at all these things where we did – because it just – you also don't want to share those things.

01:30:48.000 Yeah. 0.93

01:30:48.000 You know, it's a really, it's a fucked up metric system in scale. 0.93

01:30:52.000 What's the general attitude about people like whoever did kill Bin Laden? 0.97

01:30:58.000 Because I believe there's more than one person that's taking credit for it.

01:31:00.000 Is that correct?

01:31:04.000 I'm proud of them all.

01:31:05.000 I'm proud of them all.

01:31:07.000 No challenge to that.

01:31:09.000 I think the cat was out of the bag.

01:31:12.000 And you could not put that back in.

01:31:14.000 How so?

01:31:15.000 Because of the notoriety of the mission and who they took out.

01:31:19.000 There was, I mean, Disney tried to trademark the name of that unit.

01:31:24.000 I think the government stepped in and said, no, no, no, no, you're not doing that.

01:31:27.000 Yes.

01:31:28.000 I think I'm pretty accurate on that.

01:31:30.000 Is that real?

01:31:31.000 I think so.

01:31:32.000 That's gross.

01:31:34.000 To your point though, there are competing narratives as to what actually happened there.

01:31:38.000 Yeah, I believe I've heard more than one narrative.

01:31:41.000 Correct.

01:31:41.000 But when people discuss that operation publicly, when they give interviews, when they write books about it, what's the general attitude in the teams about that?

01:31:52.000 Man, I mean, we were just out doing some training with people that were directly attached to that unit.

01:31:59.000 And I'm not going to say that this is the opinion of everybody, but I have some very close friends that were there that night, and it's not positive.

01:32:09.000 And that's the politest I can put it.

01:32:11.000 Is it not positive because it has a detrimental effect on the team's ability to perform similar operations?

01:32:17.000 Is it not positive because it goes against the ethic of what the teams are supposed to be about?

01:32:23.000 It goes against the code.

01:32:25.000 Both of those?

01:32:26.000 Yes.

01:32:26.000 And the question of legitimacy and truth.

01:32:33.000 I'm trying to think about it.

01:32:34.000 Colonel David Hackworth was the most decorated soldier in the history of the Army.

01:32:38.000 And he said, you could have two people in a foxhole.

01:32:41.000 And they tell completely different stories of what happened.

01:32:44.000 And he said, they're both true.

01:32:46.000 I disagree with that.

01:32:48.000 They both have their own experience.

01:32:49.000 Yes.

01:32:50.000 But you don't get your own facts.

01:32:52.000 So, Andy nor I were there.

01:32:56.000 I was there in spirit.

01:32:57.000 In spirit, yes.

01:32:59.000 We will never know.

01:33:00.000 And that's a discussion for those guys to have.

01:33:03.000 And I think the fame grabbed a hold of some of them.

01:33:08.000 And again, I think the world of all the guys that were on that.

01:33:14.000 And time, I've seen this.

01:33:16.000 You remember the Band of Brothers from HBO? Yeah.

01:33:18.000 I guarantee, after 10 or 20 years...

01:33:22.000 Like, those guys started to drift apart, or so-and-so didn't like one another, and that story's sort of got embellished or sensationalized.

01:33:32.000 And there was probably some animosity amongst those guys as years went on.

01:33:36.000 Time does not make things better.

01:33:39.000 And people, for whatever reason, some people warp what happened in their mind.

01:33:43.000 Hmm.

01:33:44.000 It's contentious, to say the least, inside of the community.

01:33:47.000 Hmm.

01:33:48.000 So guys who get out and write books, it used to be those guys were kind of ostracized.

01:33:55.000 I think to a degree some of them still are depending on the angle that you take.

01:33:58.000 Jack Carr, good example, mutual friend.

01:34:01.000 He is like a 98% nonfiction writer, 2% fiction, and it's beautiful because it falls into the fiction category, but it's so precise in so many ways, which I think is what people like about the books.

01:34:14.000 There's that sense of realism.

01:34:15.000 It's like this gun and to the point where I'll be like... 0.99

01:34:19.000 Hey Jack, man, I like your books, but shut the fuck up about the serial number on the gun. 0.99

01:34:23.000 Jesus Christ, just tell the story. 0.98

01:34:25.000 I love that he does that.

01:34:26.000 You love it because you didn't live in that world. 1.00

01:34:28.000 I'm bored out of my goddamn life. 0.99

01:34:30.000 But for someone like me who didn't live in that world, I get a better, more robust picture. 0.99

01:34:36.000 Of what it's like. 0.95

01:34:37.000 But to my knowledge, he hasn't gotten any negative pushback, nor do I think he should because he's not trying to write the book of, hey, no shit, there I was. 0.98

01:34:47.000 It's truth layered with fiction that tells a fucking fantastic story. 0.62

01:34:53.000 And again, opinions are going to vary depending on who you talk to when it comes to people who write books. 0.93

01:34:59.000 Jocko is another example. 0.96

01:35:01.000 It's He is writing leadership books based on his experiences, not, hey, there I was, no shit, on target. 0.98

01:35:09.000 I think where people who start flirting with some negative reactions are the ones who are like, it's all, hey, no shit, there I was. 0.98

01:35:19.000 Surrounded by grenade pins. 0.99

01:35:20.000 Surrounded by grenade pins.

01:35:21.000 And then in their book, they start to have a very, what I will call, casual relationship with the truth.

01:35:26.000 That has an impact for them in the community.

01:35:29.000 Yeah.

01:35:30.000 Here's my observation.

01:35:31.000 A lot of those guys didn't serve 20-year careers in the community.

01:35:38.000 Well, neither did I, Mike.

01:35:39.000 You did.

01:35:40.000 I know you got medically discharged, but I'm saying a lot of the guys that write those books, there I was and I single-handedly won the war.

01:35:47.000 Usually serve two to three combat deployments, maybe four.

01:35:53.000 And Jocko and Leif did a good job with extreme ownership.

01:35:56.000 They were trying to do something.

01:35:57.000 They were trying to do, again, a knowledge transfer of what they learned that worked well leading organizations.

01:36:03.000 And it was the same with my book.

01:36:05.000 I hate the fact that it's so cliche I wrote a book, but actually the book I wrote was more about the Army Special Forces community and the process they had created.

01:36:14.000 But when somebody writes a self-grandizing book about how great they were, that's where it goes wrong.

01:36:23.000 And I've got a second book coming out January 10th, The Everyday Warrior, and it's a self-help book.

01:36:27.000 But it's not about me, nor was the first book.

01:36:30.000 To say guys can't write books that will benefit other people, like Dave Goggins wrote a book.

01:36:37.000 Whether you love or hate Dave Goggins, the community is conflicted there too.

01:36:41.000 That guy has impacted a lot of lives.

01:36:43.000 So good on him.

01:36:44.000 Millions.

01:36:45.000 Millions.

01:36:46.000 I think ultimately, people ask me, dude, you must have loved all the seals you served with.

01:36:52.000 I'm like, absolutely not.

01:36:56.000 It's so true. 0.84

01:36:57.000 Did I love them?

01:36:57.000 It's so true.

01:36:58.000 Did I love them?

01:36:59.000 I loved every single one, whether I liked them or not.

01:37:04.000 And regardless of whether we liked each other, and there's guys that didn't like me, on Monday, we came together.

01:37:11.000 We looked at the board and said, what's the mission?

01:37:13.000 We're overseas for four months.

01:37:14.000 What's the mission tonight?

01:37:16.000 We're going to operate this team with professionalism and tact.

01:37:19.000 We're going to accomplish a mission.

01:37:20.000 We're going to bring all our boys home.

01:37:22.000 And then at the end of the deployment, they went their way and drank with their buddies.

01:37:24.000 And I went my way and I drank with my buddies.

01:37:26.000 So I loved all my brothers.

01:37:28.000 And again, this is another thing that people in the private sector get wrong.

01:37:32.000 I usually, when I talk to companies, they ask, how did you lead?

01:37:35.000 I led through love, man.

01:37:36.000 I led through love.

01:37:37.000 I loved, and it took me a while to recognize this, and I went through some rough time here in Austin.

01:37:43.000 Freshly divorced, just left the SEAL teams, and it got dark.

01:37:47.000 And I was doing a lot of reflection.

01:37:48.000 And I came to realize I loved the men and women I served with, my left and right, a lot more than I hated the enemy.

01:37:54.000 I don't care about the enemy.

01:37:56.000 But if somebody was going to threaten one of my brothers or sisters, then, God help me, I was going to step in and do whatever it took to annihilate them.

01:38:03.000 But it's the same thing with your kids.

01:38:06.000 You know, the highest form of compassion is accountability.

01:38:08.000 And you've got kids.

01:38:09.000 If your kids do something wrong, you correct them.

01:38:12.000 Because you want them to become competent, good human beings.

01:38:15.000 And that is love right there.

01:38:17.000 That's accountability.

01:38:18.000 And it's driven through your compassion for them to do your job as a father or a mentor.

01:38:25.000 Absolutely.

01:38:26.000 And no one can argue that.

01:38:28.000 I mean, that's carved in stone. 0.99

01:38:34.000 All I would add to that is sometimes you can shit in their kit bag when they're not paying attention for the people you hate. 0.98

01:38:40.000 Have you done that? 0.99

01:38:41.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

01:38:42.000 Actual shit? 1.00

01:38:44.000 Do I need to check my kit bag from this last race? 0.99

01:38:45.000 No, we never served directly together. 0.97

01:38:47.000 If you haven't stirred somebody's coffee with your dick at least once, I mean, do you really have any friends? 1.00

01:38:51.000 How hot is this coffee and what's wrong with your dick? 0.99

01:38:53.000 You can put ice cubes in it, Joe, or maybe you just rub it on the edge just to give it like, you know, it's like the little dusting of, you know, pumpkin spice on the top of the latte. 0.99

01:39:02.000 Yeah.

01:39:02.000 I think that's what they were writing about when they were saying hazing.

01:39:04.000 I don't think that's good.

01:39:06.000 I'm not saying it was good.

01:39:07.000 I'm not saying I'm proud of it.

01:39:08.000 I'm just being honest.

01:39:09.000 Mike took the higher ground.

01:39:10.000 I took a middle path.

01:39:11.000 I didn't always take the higher ground, but...

01:39:13.000 I mean, if it was your birthday, watch out.

01:39:17.000 Like, don't come into work if it's your birthday.

01:39:19.000 If you're overseas and it's your birthday...

01:39:24.000 Make sure you're not seen. 1.00

01:39:24.000 First of all, if it's your birthday and you make a big deal out of it, shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:39:28.000 Well, we know. 1.00

01:39:29.000 Agreed. 1.00

01:39:29.000 I am so tired of people and their goddamn birthdays. 1.00

01:39:33.000 You had one birthday. 1.00

01:39:34.000 Nobody appetizes.

01:39:35.000 You were born on a day, and that's it. 0.99

01:39:37.000 If you're like, it's my fucking, you didn't even call me on my birthday. 0.98

01:39:41.000 Nobody advertises their birthday. 1.00

01:39:43.000 Maybe some idiots do. 1.00

01:39:45.000 Correct. 1.00

01:39:45.000 Everyone knows. 1.00

01:39:46.000 It's a common knowledge.

01:39:47.000 Don't advertise your birthday.

01:39:49.000 But everyone knows because we have everyone's records.

01:39:51.000 Oh, boy.

01:39:51.000 That's true.

01:39:52.000 Yeah.

01:39:53.000 And calendar alerts.

01:39:54.000 These Fields of Honor shirts.

01:39:56.000 Folds.

01:39:56.000 Folds of Honor.

01:39:57.000 Excuse me.

01:39:58.000 What's going on with that?

01:40:02.000 How did this start?

01:40:03.000 Actually, how did you and I end up getting connected?

01:40:05.000 I think I randomly got a call from him, which is my favorite kind of call.

01:40:09.000 Hey man, do you want to do something?

01:40:10.000 And I'm like, yes.

01:40:11.000 Count me in.

01:40:12.000 Without him even finishing talking.

01:40:15.000 I had a 20 minute PowerPoint presentation.

01:40:17.000 He's like, I just got back from skydiving into Everest.

01:40:20.000 I'm like, yes.

01:40:21.000 I'm 100% coming on the next one.

01:40:23.000 Which was awesome.

01:40:23.000 Which was epic.

01:40:25.000 You skydived into Everest?

01:40:26.000 Yeah, you should tell that first because it ties into what we're trying to do.

01:40:29.000 So...

01:40:30.000 You know, I had to take a break.

01:40:32.000 I retired in 2018 and my hip was bad.

01:40:35.000 And so I got a hip resurfacing, which is basically like a hip replacement for young people.

01:40:39.000 And, dude, I was just going through depression sitting on the couch because that is a lot worse, the recovery, than a traditional hip replacement.

01:40:47.000 And a buddy of mine, Fred Williams, who runs Complete Parachute Solutions, they basically train a good portion of our special operations in how to parachute, and he's a former SEAL himself.

01:40:58.000 They equip them as well.

01:41:00.000 They equip them as well.

01:41:01.000 Was going to Everest, and I'm like, hey man, I need to get on this for my spirit and my emotional well-being.

01:41:06.000 And he's like, okay, this is the cost.

01:41:09.000 And I suck at fundraising and went and found some sponsors that didn't cover the whole thing, so I had to come out of pocket.

01:41:15.000 But nine months to the day that I had that replacement, we were jumping into some of the highest drop zones in the world.

01:41:21.000 So we're in a group of probably 20 people in the world that have jumped into drop zones that high.

01:41:27.000 And it was spiritual to say the least.

01:41:29.000 That terrain makes you feel so small.

01:41:32.000 Have you been to Nepal?

01:41:33.000 No.

01:41:33.000 You've got to go.

01:41:34.000 Just even if you hike the trail, it makes you feel so small in a good way.

01:41:39.000 It's almost like a wake-up call.

01:41:40.000 Like, I need to do more as a human being.

01:41:43.000 And so, I had created sort of this proof of concept called Legacy Expeditions.

01:41:48.000 Because I believe, you know, our Fallen, who I will speak volumes about, and in fact, I got a book for you that's coming out in November about Michael Monsoor, who was a SEAL who was awarded posthumously the Medal of Honor for jumping on a grenade and saving two SEALs.

01:42:05.000 The SEAL to his right, three feet to his right.

01:42:08.000 Is that their legacies die the second we stop telling their stories.

01:42:13.000 And additionally, I also raised $200,000 for the kids of Extortion 17. Extortion 17 was the largest loss of life, single incident loss of life in Afghanistan.

01:42:25.000 31 Americans were killed.

01:42:27.000 Most of them were SEALs, and they were our former teammates.

01:42:31.000 And so I think something like 25 kids were left without their fathers.

01:42:35.000 And so even though their families get a $400,000 check, I think that's after or before taxes, that money doesn't last long.

01:42:43.000 Carrie Mills is a good example. 1.00

01:42:44.000 She lost Matt Mills, who was freaking awesome.

01:42:49.000 Why do they have to pay taxes on that? 0.99

01:42:51.000 Am I wrong?

01:43:09.000 I think the number can vary depending on what insurance you choose when you first join.

01:43:14.000 So that's like the Navy Mutual Aid Association.

01:43:17.000 If you've been paying for that, yes, that's a separate death benefit, but you elect to pay for that over the time.

01:43:24.000 And I could be wrong, but it's like retirement.

01:43:27.000 Why is your retirement for military tax?

01:43:30.000 Disability's not. 0.75

01:43:30.000 I get that. 0.75

01:43:31.000 But I don't think military retirement.

01:43:33.000 That's a whole different subject.

01:43:35.000 Yeah, agreed.

01:43:36.000 Carrie Mills was, on a Saturday morning, she got a knock on the door.

01:43:40.000 And, you know, her son, Cash Mills, was 18 months old, can't remember his father, and all of a sudden, she's on her own with an 18-month-year-old.

01:43:48.000 And so that $400,000 doesn't go far.

01:43:51.000 So one of the things beyond honoring their legacy and keeping their stories alive is honor their memory, educate their legacy.

01:43:59.000 And we raise, and with this, what we have coming up, uh, triple seven expedition, which has never been done.

01:44:06.000 Seven continents, seven skydives, seven days, folds of honor, uh, Educates the spouses and children of disabled and deceased military service members as well as first responders.

01:44:19.000 And so we're trying to raise that $7 million to give scholarships to those kids to go to college, to go to trade school, things along those lines.

01:44:27.000 But Andy and I... Man, I'm just so bored.

01:44:30.000 I have fun with my job, leadership development and executive search, but there is just, you miss that thrill.

01:44:36.000 And that's why I called Andy, who had also raised money for the SEAL Foundation on his record attempt.

01:44:41.000 Which is actually how you and I met.

01:44:43.000 No kidding.

01:44:43.000 With Tate.

01:44:44.000 Yeah.

01:44:45.000 It's really hard to figure out what to do with any skill that you learned from our previous job that has any application in the outside world.

01:44:56.000 Like the leadership stuff, I totally understand that.

01:44:58.000 But if you look at the... 0.94

01:44:59.000 The vast majority of the rote training that we did, what the fuck am I going to do with that outside of the military? 0.64

01:45:06.000 You could apply it to law enforcement for sure, some contracting.

01:45:10.000 For me, that never seemed appealing.

01:45:12.000 So I took a 17-year chunk of my life.

01:45:15.000 One of the things that I absolutely have loved, though, since I started doing it was skydiving.

01:45:21.000 It's not even a useful skill.

01:45:24.000 I think it's been used a half a dozen times for real or something like that, maybe more. 0.98

01:45:27.000 But the reason they don't use it in large group nighttime insertions is dangerous as shit. 0.99

01:45:32.000 People get hurt all the time. 0.96

01:45:35.000 But it's something that I learned from my past that I still can enjoy today, which is a singularly useless hobby.

01:45:44.000 Yeah.

01:45:53.000 Yeah.

01:45:54.000 Yeah.

01:46:00.000 I have so many of those, but I never chose to wear them that much.

01:46:04.000 And those are the names of people left behind.

01:46:07.000 And all of the people that we served with and we worked with, it's so easy to look at the guy who's kitted up, who's boarding the helicopter, and think that that's the only person that's impacted with the death, or that person, when they get on target...

01:46:23.000 The only reason they're successful is because of the training that they went through.

01:46:27.000 And then from my own personal experience, that's not the case.

01:46:29.000 It's a support network of your extended family. 0.96

01:46:32.000 It's a support network if you're married to your significant other who are playing pickup basketball when you are on the other side of the earth in limited communication, doing shit that's really dangerous.

01:46:44.000 And then if you don't come back...

01:46:46.000 At least from what I've seen, the military does a good job for a short period of time, but the military's job is to be forward-thinking, not looking in the rearview mirror.

01:46:55.000 So eventually, the wheel continues to move on.

01:46:58.000 And I can't think of a better way to A, honor the people that we served with, but B, continue to pass their legacy along by...

01:47:06.000 Elevating what their kids are capable of doing through education.

01:47:09.000 So that's – when he explained that to me, basically what he said was, hey, do you want to go do this jump?

01:47:13.000 And then he told me all this other stuff later.

01:47:14.000 I was in on the jump.

01:47:16.000 But conceptually, it's a good tie for me and I would say probably for you and everybody else that's involved.

01:47:21.000 It dips a toe back into your – into our old world.

01:47:24.000 Like we're planning.

01:47:25.000 It's going to be logistically very challenging. 0.94

01:47:26.000 It's going to suck.

01:47:27.000 I mean we're going to fly economy, try to get all over the world in seven days with the skydive in between, going through customs and all this stuff.

01:47:35.000 We're good to go.

01:47:56.000 It's a great tie-in.

01:47:58.000 And even already in the training, we did a week of training out in Arizona, just getting ready for it.

01:48:03.000 It reconnects you back with people you haven't seen in a decade.

01:48:05.000 And then everybody gets online because it's for a focus.

01:48:08.000 And at the end of the day, I find it to be cathartic for me, but super helpful for people who are left behind.

01:48:15.000 What Mike said is correct.

01:48:16.000 When you stop talking about these people, that sucks that their legacy is gone, but their families are still...

01:48:22.000 I can't imagine having a child who is 18 months old who never knew their father.

01:48:26.000 I mean, yeah.

01:48:29.000 So this is hence why we've named this organization.

01:48:32.000 We're fundraising on this one for Folds of Honor.

01:48:35.000 But our organization is Legacy Expeditions.

01:48:37.000 And where Andy and I want to take this is set up these type of expeditions.

01:48:42.000 Because when I went to Everest, a buddy of ours called me.

01:48:46.000 He was like, hey man.

01:48:47.000 And we were leaving in two weeks.

01:48:49.000 He was like, hey, I need this right now.

01:48:51.000 How can I get on this? 1.00

01:48:52.000 And I'm like, fuck. 1.00

01:48:55.000 First off, it costs this much. 1.00

01:48:57.000 And he's like, yeah, there's no way I can afford that.

01:49:00.000 But there have been multiple guys that reached out like, hey, how do I get involved in this?

01:49:04.000 So we want to set up expeditions where we're taking veterans for that spiritual experience.

01:49:09.000 But you're right.

01:49:11.000 You know where the spiritual part comes in is when I'm surrounded with these guys again, there is like this camaraderie, this homecoming and belonging.

01:49:19.000 And whether some of the guys didn't know each other, they start making fun of each other and it's just like you're back with the tribe.

01:49:24.000 You're back with the boys.

01:49:26.000 And then we also want to train veterans who have never jumped, even amputees, the gift of flight, and get them trained up and dedicate a parachute to them so that, you know, whether they live in Omaha, Austin, LA, they can go on their own and they've got an outlet to just,

01:49:41.000 as we say, air it out.

01:49:42.000 Because, I mean, when you're jumping from 13,000 feet, it is the best view in the world. 0.72

01:49:46.000 You put terrain around that, like Everest, or where we're starting out in Antarctica, that is, it's ridiculous.

01:49:54.000 I'm not looking forward to that one.

01:49:55.000 The high yesterday was negative 36. And I want to correct, there will be no hotels.

01:49:59.000 There will be zero hotels.

01:50:01.000 Like, purposely, we're making these guys sleep on the ground.

01:50:03.000 If they have to sleep on the ground, it's in the airport waiting for the next one.

01:50:07.000 You're going to sleep on the ground in Antarctica?

01:50:08.000 I think they have lodging arranged there because you would be DED dead, but... 0.92

01:50:14.000 But literally, I was looking at the temperature the other day.

01:50:17.000 It's negative 36, the high.

01:50:19.000 So they have this pretty robust gear.

01:50:21.000 Like, you can't even jump a helmet that moves up and down the visor because that's likely all going to fail given the extreme temperature.

01:50:28.000 And I was asking him.

01:50:29.000 I didn't know this.

01:50:30.000 Like, hey, how high are we going to jump out at Antarctica?

01:50:33.000 I'm totally fine getting out at 2,000 feet and getting on the ground into a sleeping bag as fast as possible.

01:50:38.000 He's like, oh, yeah, 13,000 feet.

01:50:40.000 Subtract 2 degrees, if not 3, for every 1,000 feet you go up in the air.

01:50:45.000 So what is 13,000 feet like?

01:50:48.000 It'll be colder than when I did that negative what?

01:50:51.000 Well, at the time of the year, we're going to be there, negative 30 to negative 50 Fahrenheit.

01:50:54.000 For how long?

01:50:55.000 How long is the drop?

01:50:56.000 If you go from 13, it'd be a minute.

01:51:00.000 If they do what I want to do...

01:51:02.000 Archeric is outfitting the guys with a pretty good load.

01:51:05.000 Even if you have a good loadout for cold weather...

01:51:09.000 There's nothing to...

01:51:10.000 I mean, you're still feeling the elements.

01:51:13.000 Which is why I want to get out at 2,000 feet and get a sleeping bag.

01:51:15.000 That's a total cuck move.

01:51:17.000 I'm fine. 0.96

01:51:18.000 I'll be a warmest cuck you've ever seen. 0.72

01:51:20.000 It's a psych. 0.94

01:51:21.000 Are you guys...

01:51:21.000 So you're dropping down and then you're just going to set up a camp once you hit the ground?

01:51:25.000 No.

01:51:26.000 So there is an established...

01:51:26.000 It's well established, actually.

01:51:28.000 So we'll start at Union Glacier Camp.

01:51:31.000 In fact...

01:51:31.000 We've got to fly out to Punta Arenas, Chile, on December 30th.

01:51:36.000 So the whole group, and there's 11 of us, plus a film crew, and I'll get to that.

01:51:41.000 Even Eric Prince, the former SEAL, founder of Blackwater, he's on it.

01:51:46.000 Jericho Denman, 15 combat deployments with the 75th Ranger Regiment.

01:51:50.000 Logan Stark.

01:51:51.000 Both those guys are from Black Rifle.

01:51:53.000 We even have a 73-year-old.

01:51:55.000 Former Marine back from the Vietnam era.

01:51:58.000 And the guy, we're going to jump him in.

01:52:00.000 A guy named Nick, who's helped set this up, is going to tandem him in.

01:52:05.000 But this guy has set multiple records since he was 70. And I hope I'm doing the cool shit he's doing when I'm that age. 0.84

01:52:12.000 But Union Glacier Camp is an established camp. 0.98

01:52:14.000 We'll jump there.

01:52:15.000 Move on to Santiago, where we're going to jump with the Chilean Special Operations.

01:52:21.000 Barcelona, Spain.

01:52:23.000 Egypt.

01:52:23.000 On to UAE, where we're also going to jump with the UAE Special Operations because they lost a lot of guys in Yemen.

01:52:30.000 On to Perth, Australia, where we'll probably jump with Australian SAS. And then from there to Tampa, Florida for the final jump.

01:52:38.000 But the film crew, led by Dan Myrick.

01:52:42.000 Remember the Blair Witch Project?

01:52:44.000 Yeah.

01:52:44.000 That's Dan Myrick.

01:52:45.000 And that guy broke all the indie records and that will probably never be touched.

01:52:49.000 And he's been awesome.

01:52:51.000 Him and Christian Kremple were close and we're going to be doing more work with them as we expand this.

01:52:56.000 My only ask is that Dan doesn't make it weird.

01:53:00.000 Like Blair Witchy?

01:53:01.000 Like Blair Witch, yeah.

01:53:03.000 Is he filming this?

01:53:04.000 He's filming this.

01:53:05.000 How can he make it weird?

01:53:07.000 I mean, what's he gonna do?

01:53:08.000 I don't know.

01:53:09.000 Get inside your sleeping bag with you.

01:53:10.000 My head's going in a million different directions right now. 1.00

01:53:13.000 Yeti's shit. 1.00

01:53:15.000 He's done it before. 1.00

01:53:16.000 He created a genre of horror films.

01:53:18.000 Well, there's one thing to do the jumps.

01:53:21.000 Which will be cool, but actually capturing everything that goes into it, I think it's way harder.

01:53:25.000 The jumping, in my opinion, we haven't done this yet, is the easiest part.

01:53:30.000 Like, oh, okay, gravity works, checked it many times, get out over the DZ, land on the DZ, but then everything else that goes in between, weather, aircraft, like, that's actually the hard part.

01:53:40.000 And then there's each other.

01:53:41.000 I mean, when you're with each other in close quarters for seven days... 0.69

01:53:45.000 We're going to kill each other at times. 0.99

01:53:48.000 So we're going to fuck with each other when other people are sleeping. 0.99

01:53:52.000 The shenanigans are going to be off the roof. 0.99

01:53:56.000 And are you guys doing this for a documentary?

01:53:58.000 There will be one associated with that.

01:54:02.000 I've never made a documentary.

01:54:03.000 I do know that it takes time to do that.

01:54:05.000 The whole purpose of it, though, is, again, like I said, kind of like the first time I met you, to get eyeballs on something.

01:54:11.000 I will tell you, everything I've ever done in my life, Up to and including combat operations.

01:54:17.000 Raising money is by far the hardest thing.

01:54:19.000 It is unbelievably hard to separate somebody a dollar from their wallet, and it should be, especially in the economic times right now.

01:54:27.000 So it's a challenge.

01:54:29.000 I mean, I think seven million dollars is a super lofty goal.

01:54:32.000 Is it possible?

01:54:33.000 Yes.

01:54:33.000 Is it probable?

01:54:34.000 I don't know if I would necessarily say yes, but that's the whole point is to do something like this.

01:54:40.000 Like everything, the hardships around it is exactly what I love.

01:54:44.000 But at this point, I just want to be able to pass on and do things for other people who gave far more than I did.

01:54:53.000 I mean, it's impossible to describe the impact that it has when people get the literal knock on the door, which is still how they do it.

01:55:03.000 $7 million would be $1,400 $5,000 scholarships.

01:55:09.000 And that's not only military families.

01:55:11.000 That's first responders as well.

01:55:14.000 And, I mean, Andy has raised money for special operations organizations.

01:55:18.000 I have.

01:55:19.000 You know, dude, the one thing we can do when we come back, and there is, you know, people talk about PTSD, and that is a real thing.

01:55:27.000 And some people deal with...

01:55:30.000 Combat differently.

01:55:31.000 For some people, one combat deployment fills their cup.

01:55:34.000 For other people?

01:55:35.000 I mean, we've got one buddy with 22 combat deployments.

01:55:40.000 It's like the guy had no life outside of his adult life.

01:55:44.000 And there's a whole conversation around that.

01:55:46.000 And I ask a lot of guys that I have served with whether or not they should limit combat exposure to people.

01:55:50.000 The service member would always push up against it.

01:55:52.000 But if you look at the actual long-term health of the individual, what does the rest of their life actually look like after that?

01:55:58.000 I think it's worthy of at least a conversation.

01:56:01.000 But there is an element of survivor's guilt when you come home.

01:56:03.000 The boys you were with didn't.

01:56:05.000 And I think that sits with us and that will always sit with us to your comment about that fingerprint on your soul.

01:56:13.000 But $7 million is a lot of money.

01:56:15.000 And we're offering one tandem seat to somebody who will pay $1 million.

01:56:19.000 And we've had some interest there.

01:56:21.000 And that alone will fund, you know, like 200 scholarships.

01:56:28.000 And if somebody wants to donate to this, is there a website they can go to?

01:56:31.000 There is.

01:56:32.000 So it is 7777.givesmart.com or text 7772SMART. The word smart in the donation link will pop up.

01:56:46.000 But yeah, I'm the one that looks really good in free fall.

01:56:51.000 So you see those people who are actually oriented correctly up top, Joe?

01:56:54.000 That's how you know it's not actually Mike.

01:56:56.000 I'll show you some videos that I have on my phone after.

01:56:58.000 What is the difference between someone who's good at it and bad at it?

01:57:01.000 These videos will clearly display this.

01:57:03.000 And I put them on Instagram and I tag him in it too.

01:57:05.000 It's fantastic.

01:57:06.000 First off, I'm inverted.

01:57:07.000 I'm inverted.

01:57:09.000 Not by choice.

01:57:11.000 And that's the thing too.

01:57:13.000 I can fall safely, but our guys, what we're training them to be very good at is to land on very small DZs.

01:57:20.000 So canopy control and confined DZ skills is what we trained on.

01:57:23.000 And we'll have another training camp December 5th to the 8th in Arizona.

01:57:27.000 Here's a video of it.

01:57:28.000 Yeah.

01:57:29.000 I'm gonna try to go to Everest with him next year and take Leah for a tandem at the base of Everest.

01:57:35.000 I think it'd be pretty awesome.

01:57:36.000 Tough to beat though is the problem.

01:57:37.000 Now I gotta bring Jordan.

01:57:38.000 Good job.

01:57:40.000 Wow.

01:57:41.000 And Dave Bautista is also assisting with this to support the cause.

01:57:49.000 And so why did you choose to parachute into Everest?

01:57:54.000 It seemed like the biggest challenge.

01:57:59.000 So the canopy, because of the air density at that elevation, your canopy is screaming.

01:58:07.000 Screaming.

01:58:08.000 And so we went through training for a week in Leadville, Colorado, which is the highest elevation.

01:58:12.000 When you say screaming, what do you mean?

01:58:13.000 Just the speed.

01:58:14.000 It's high speed.

01:58:16.000 Because the air is very thin?

01:58:19.000 Yes.

01:58:20.000 And so this is me and Andy in Iceland, which I've never seen a grown man cry after Andy yelled at him.

01:58:28.000 Andy yelled at somebody?

01:58:30.000 Oh, Andy's got that video.

01:58:32.000 About once every 10 years, I will have a moment where I fall short of who I want to be, Joe, and that occurred in Iceland.

01:58:40.000 I had some choice words.

01:58:42.000 It was all based around safety.

01:58:43.000 Not my safety or Mike's safety.

01:58:45.000 I mean, jumping in austere locations is something that I've done for a really long time, and I helped write the book on how to do it.

01:58:52.000 But it got to a point where, yeah, the kettle boiled over a little bit, and I forgot my GoPro was on.

01:58:59.000 So they got a good laugh about it at dinner.

01:59:02.000 And the guy he yelled at, it wasn't his fault.

01:59:04.000 He was a nice guy.

01:59:05.000 He had a good heart.

01:59:06.000 I didn't yell, I had pointed in choice ways.

01:59:09.000 It was almost like you yelled at a special needs kid.

01:59:13.000 What was the problem?

01:59:15.000 What had he done wrong?

01:59:16.000 Oh, Andy, go ahead.

01:59:21.000 Is there time for a bathroom break?

01:59:23.000 Yeah, do you need to pee?

01:59:24.000 Go ahead.

01:59:24.000 Yeah, I can talk about it.

01:59:26.000 I'm trying to think about the best way to describe it.

01:59:33.000 We're in a situation where, you know, experience matters in anything, right?

01:59:36.000 Like, would you ever throw somebody in an MMA cage on their first day?

01:59:40.000 No.

01:59:40.000 Be unreasonable, right?

01:59:42.000 So skydiving is the same thing.

01:59:43.000 Most people do their entire skydiving journey at an airport, which is really linear like this table, the plane.

01:59:49.000 Skydiving in San Diego is a perfect example.

01:59:53.000 The plane takes off to the west.

01:59:54.000 It always comes back towards the mountains and most days, depending on the wind, it is going to be going back towards the west and it looks the same, you land the same, the landing pattern is the same.

02:00:03.000 People still get hurt in that.

02:00:05.000 There was a group, a large group of people who paid a substantial amount of money to go to Iceland and it was pretty readily apparent that the net, if you will, the safety net that existed Was non-existent or barely there.

02:00:22.000 Things, you know, inability to talk to an aircraft, inability to talk to the jumpers once they were on the ground.

02:00:30.000 Varying levels of experience from low hundreds, like low 100s jumps up until I think one of the guy there had like 20,000 jumps.

02:00:38.000 And I have been around enough people and have done enough jumping and watched people getting hurt that, again, I wasn't worried about my safety and I wasn't worried about Mike's safety because I knew my background.

02:00:50.000 But after watching what happened the first day and then somebody getting hurt on the first jump of the second day and then some stuff that transpired in an aircraft and we jumped into a location where the altimeter settings were incorrect based off the information.

02:01:05.000 So I got to the ground and my altimeter read negative 750 feet.

02:01:10.000 Not awesome.

02:01:12.000 How does that happen?

02:01:14.000 They tell you to set it improperly on the ground.

02:01:16.000 So sometimes you will take off from an altitude that is above or below where you're going to land.

02:01:20.000 And you need to set your altimeter for where you're going to land, not for where you're going to take off.

02:01:25.000 And are you doing this with like a wrist computer?

02:01:27.000 It can be digital or it can be analog, but either way it has to be set correctly.

02:01:31.000 Otherwise, what you're looking at, whether it's analog or digital, is not going to be giving you the correct information.

02:01:36.000 So the second jump of the second day, we were told by the person running our aircraft that we needed to offset 750 feet.

02:01:44.000 Which is not that big of a deal.

02:01:46.000 And also, by the way, on the reserve parachute, there's a computer with a small pyrotechnic charge that has essentially a razor blade that cuts your reserve parachute if it senses a barometric pressure, I believe, barometric pressure speed and altitude criteria.

02:02:01.000 And these things have, like, hundreds of documented saves.

02:02:04.000 Unconscious skydiver, the thing goes off, your reserve comes out, and at least you land under a reserve parachute.

02:02:09.000 They can be offset as well.

02:02:11.000 But if you're going to be jumping into a place, let's say you were supposed to land 750 feet higher, and now all of a sudden you're going to land somewhere that's 300, you know, sea level, which is essentially what we ended up doing, both the computer in your reserve parachute and the altimeter on your wrist are presenting information to you that is incorrect.

02:02:30.000 So when I thought I was at, or if somebody thought they were at their normal pole altitude, say, of 3,000 feet, they're actually at 2,250.

02:02:38.000 Let's say they have a malfunction and you normally will give yourself a certain amount of time to work through that.

02:02:42.000 You could easily burn through the criteria for your reserve to fire and the next thing you know you have dual entanglement with both canopies out and that's how people die.

02:02:51.000 So we landed.

02:02:52.000 I looked down.

02:02:53.000 It said negative 750. They audibled in the aircraft and just pulled out a phone and said, hey, we're jumping in here.

02:02:58.000 Nobody had ever seen it.

02:03:00.000 There was no real wind indicators on the ground.

02:03:02.000 And at that point, Mike went and picked a woman up out of a field with a broken leg on the first jump of the second day.

02:03:09.000 So that had already happened that day.

02:03:10.000 We got into the plane.

02:03:13.000 I'm glossing over a lot of things to try to be as kind as possible to paint a broad picture though but it had reached for me when we got onto the ground like my safety go no go.

02:03:21.000 I was absolutely just done with what was happening and again I was just I didn't want to see anybody else get hurt.

02:03:26.000 It's a dangerous enough activity as it is so one of the organizers happened to be there and I had one of my you know about every decade falling short of how I should actually talk to people and yeah let them know exactly how I felt.

02:03:42.000 So Mount Everest was run by us.

02:03:45.000 Same guy running that is running 777, Fred Williams, who's the president of Complete Parachute Solutions.

02:03:51.000 We outsourced this one, and we had a bit of trust.

02:03:55.000 And I think within the first five minutes, we were looking at each other.

02:03:59.000 When they briefed, all the skydivers were like, something's off here.

02:04:03.000 And we quickly recognized it.

02:04:04.000 But funny enough, when they were showing that phone, Andy's a paying customer for this.

02:04:11.000 They made him the jump master.

02:04:13.000 So they basically made him one of the staff.

02:04:15.000 And he's looking at me, shaking his head.

02:04:17.000 And I remember, I'm like...

02:04:18.000 You're a call, dude.

02:04:19.000 And at one point, I'm like, just don't do it.

02:04:20.000 I'm always getting out.

02:04:21.000 Just don't do it. 1.00

02:04:22.000 So he's like, fuck it. 1.00

02:04:25.000 And he jumps, and so I go out after him. 1.00

02:04:28.000 It begs a point, like, if your mom ever asks, hey, if your friends jump out off a bridge or perfectly good airplane, are you going to do it?

02:04:35.000 I'm like, hell yes, I am.

02:04:36.000 I mean, I'm going to look out the door first to make sure.

02:04:38.000 Yeah, but that's loyalty.

02:04:39.000 And that's tribe.

02:04:40.000 But that was atrocious.

02:04:43.000 And...

02:04:44.000 We'll never outsource.

02:04:45.000 We'll run every expedition from here forth because we just do it in a way—that's the one thing I love about the military is we just mitigate risk, man.

02:04:52.000 We go through the checklist as mundane as that may seem or prescribed as it may be, but that's why we have so, you know, very few fatalities in our operations compared to, let's say, the civilian skydiving world.

02:05:06.000 Yeah.

02:05:07.000 It's dangerous enough as it is.

02:05:08.000 Yeah.

02:05:09.000 Yeah, that doesn't sound good.

02:05:10.000 So had this person done this before?

02:05:13.000 Yes. 0.97

02:05:14.000 So how'd they fuck up so hugely? 0.74

02:05:17.000 750 feet's a lot. 0.96

02:05:18.000 Narcissism.

02:05:19.000 750 feet is enough to kill people.

02:05:21.000 I mean, it really is.

02:05:25.000 Narcissism?

02:05:26.000 No, it wasn't narcissism.

02:05:27.000 It was...

02:05:28.000 I'm talking about somebody else.

02:05:29.000 Yeah.

02:05:29.000 And so to come to find out that there actually should never have been briefed an offset for the DZ, the altimeter should have just been set for zero, it highlighted the lack of structure and communication in the chain of command of that organization.

02:05:42.000 Each individual aircraft load was largely operating on their own.

02:05:46.000 And there's some inherent danger in that, of having something that is actually set, briefed, this is the standard.

02:05:52.000 And again, it's one of the beauties.

02:05:53.000 I mean, the military can get very overkill sometimes with briefing and risk mitigation, but there's a reason for it.

02:05:59.000 And the reason is they've hurt people by not doing that.

02:06:04.000 Did you talk about day one and how 75% of all the first four loads missed the DZ? Yeah, so we were on the first aircraft.

02:06:12.000 The second aircraft, I think the closest jumper, landed three miles from us, to include people landing about five miles away over a river that had a water temperature that was one to two degrees above freezing because it was glacier melt.

02:06:24.000 Get some.

02:06:25.000 So Andy and I are on the drop zone because we're the first two out of all the 60 skydivers spread across four passes.

02:06:32.000 And three hours after the second pass...

02:06:39.000 Some Icelanders pull up, and there were some Icelandic personnel.

02:06:44.000 And they came up, and they're like, hey, we think you have three skydivers on the other side of the river.

02:06:49.000 It's been three hours.

02:06:51.000 So the way we run it is there's a manifest.

02:06:53.000 As people land, we mark off to make sure that we have a headcount, that we're controlling all our personnel.

02:07:00.000 And no other jumping occurs until you have a full headcount.

02:07:06.000 And somebody could have landed on a...

02:07:07.000 They could have had a compound fracture bleeding out for three hours.

02:07:11.000 And we fell on the ground laughing.

02:07:15.000 I know I did.

02:07:17.000 We were laughing.

02:07:17.000 And it wasn't because it's funny.

02:07:19.000 We cared about those three people, but it was almost comedic how bad this thing was run.

02:07:25.000 We'll go back to Iceland.

02:07:26.000 We'll go to Norway as well.

02:07:27.000 We'll set up those trips and we'll do it our way.

02:07:30.000 Well, now you know.

02:07:31.000 Well, soup to nuts control having people who do it.

02:07:33.000 I mean, it just...

02:07:34.000 Soup to nuts?

02:07:35.000 Soup to nuts.

02:07:36.000 Flash to bang.

02:07:37.000 Beginning to end.

02:07:38.000 We will control everything from... 0.96

02:07:39.000 You say that a lot?

02:07:40.000 Soup to nuts?

02:07:41.000 Sometimes.

02:07:42.000 You've never said that?

02:07:43.000 No.

02:07:43.000 You're welcome to use that term any time you want.

02:07:45.000 I don't think I ever will.

02:07:46.000 What does that even mean?

02:07:48.000 I can't even find an analogy where soup and nuts go together.

02:07:53.000 Flash to bang, however you would like to describe it.

02:07:55.000 Flash to bang kind of makes sense.

02:07:57.000 Soup to nuts is...

02:07:58.000 Is that not a common term that we use?

02:08:00.000 No, it's not.

02:08:00.000 It's a military...

02:08:01.000 Soup to nuts.

02:08:03.000 Yeah.

02:08:05.000 What does it mean by soup? 0.98

02:08:07.000 Well, now that you're asking, I don't fucking know. 0.98

02:08:08.000 Here it goes. 0.98

02:08:09.000 Soup to nuts, Wikipedia.

02:08:11.000 Soup to nuts, an American English idiom that conveys the meaning of from beginning to end, derived from the description of a full course dinner.

02:08:18.000 Oh, nuts at the end? 0.95

02:08:20.000 That's a shitty dessert. 0.96

02:08:21.000 What kind of dessert are they giving? 0.98

02:08:23.000 For clarity, I did not know that.

02:08:24.000 It's just something that I heard somebody else say, so I've repeated it. 0.98

02:08:27.000 It was in a 1986 episode of Mama's Family, whatever the fuck that is. 0.97

02:08:31.000 Oh, it was on That's So Raven. 0.98

02:08:34.000 Yeah.

02:08:35.000 I swear I heard that in the teams.

02:08:36.000 Oh, no, no, it's used a lot.

02:08:37.000 Oh, look, it's an old movie from Laurel and Hardy.

02:08:40.000 From Soup to Nuts.

02:08:42.000 Wow.

02:08:43.000 Jesus.

02:08:43.000 Okay.

02:08:44.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:08:45.000 So don't let that person ever organize shit again. 0.99

02:08:49.000 They've already got another one planned. 0.99

02:08:51.000 Oh, boy.

02:08:52.000 They do?

02:08:53.000 Same people?

02:08:54.000 To the best of my knowledge, yes.

02:08:55.000 Oh, boy.

02:08:56.000 Well, whoever is listening to this.

02:08:59.000 Like I said, I'll leave it at that.

02:09:00.000 I don't want to... 0.99

02:09:01.000 I was just about to say pissing somebody's Cheerios, but I'm afraid Joe's going to be like, what the fuck does that mean? 0.99

02:09:06.000 I get pissing Cheerios. 0.99

02:09:09.000 I get that one.

02:09:10.000 That one seems clear.

02:09:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:09:12.000 Stir coffee with your dick. 1.00

02:09:13.000 I get it. 1.00

02:09:14.000 Half the shit that comes out of my mouth, my wife's like, what the fuck does that mean? 1.00

02:09:17.000 Yeah, for sure. 1.00

02:09:18.000 My kids say the same thing to me, too.

02:09:20.000 No, it'll be wild.

02:09:20.000 But again, at the end of the day, Joe, I love it because it ties me back into that world.

02:09:24.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:09:26.000 I know too many people and have seen the detritus that's left behind when shit goes south. 0.99

02:09:34.000 I'd rather make an impact in their life. 0.92

02:09:36.000 I consider what I personally did overseas to be utterly and meaningly useless in the grand scheme of things, but I think helping those people out has a greater value than I can describe.

02:09:46.000 I was just happy to be there with the team and watching these guys display selfless valor on a nightly basis.

02:09:55.000 I still smile at it.

02:09:56.000 But with the documentary, it's not for us.

02:09:59.000 We are also jumping in memory of one to two veterans on each continent.

02:10:04.000 And so Dan Myrick and Christian Kremple controlled the documentary.

02:10:08.000 We know nothing about how to do that.

02:10:10.000 All we asked is that you focus on the story of those guys we jump in honor of.

02:10:15.000 And so...

02:10:18.000 Hopefully it'll show a different side, as we talked about in Hollywood, painting us a certain way.

02:10:23.000 It'll show a different side of the military veterans and the special operators we know and who they are, and show the professional side, again, the empathy, the respect.

02:10:33.000 That's important to us, that this thing comes out and tells those stories the right way.

02:10:39.000 It's something their families could be proud of.

02:10:41.000 Beautiful.

02:10:42.000 Alright, so one more time, the website?

02:10:45.000 777.givesmart.com And if somebody wants that million dollar seat, contact us at lrobinson at foldsofhonor.com That's lrobinson at foldsofhonor.com And hell,

02:11:01.000 we're still taking sponsors to fund this thing, but it's a go.

02:11:05.000 December 30th, we leave.

02:11:07.000 And then we have to sit in Antarctica for a little while.

02:11:11.000 Before we can get the jump in, and we're still trying to contact American Airlines to get assistance or get FedEx to fly in a plane and pick us up in Antarctica.

02:11:21.000 I think I'm having dinner with the CEO on Friday or Thursday.

02:11:24.000 If we get that tandem slot, do I have to do the tandem slot?

02:11:26.000 Yes, you do.

02:11:28.000 We're doing a Euro, which means facing.

02:11:31.000 It's nontraditional.

02:11:32.000 Most of the time you go belly to back.

02:11:35.000 Why would you go face to face?

02:11:40.000 It's a once-in-a-lifetime experience, Joe.

02:11:42.000 You want to look at the person?

02:11:43.000 I mean, I don't even know if it's legal to do it, but I'm going to offer it.

02:11:46.000 Clothing optional in the more tropical locations. 0.99

02:11:49.000 We've got some good shit. 0.96

02:11:50.000 So, have you ever seen the space diving? 0.99

02:11:52.000 Alex Baumgarner?

02:11:53.000 No.

02:11:54.000 Felix Baumgarner.

02:11:55.000 Felix, sorry.

02:11:55.000 It was a Red Bull study.

02:11:56.000 He jumped...

02:11:56.000 Oh, I did see that.

02:11:58.000 Yeah.

02:11:58.000 And then a guy named, I think it's Alan Eustis, came behind him, who's a Google exec?

02:12:03.000 Correct.

02:12:04.000 He beat Felix's record, yep.

02:12:05.000 So, you know, I want to kick Andy out at above 40,000 feet to reclaim that record.

02:12:12.000 The wingsuit one.

02:12:13.000 The wingsuit.

02:12:13.000 Maybe even higher.

02:12:15.000 And then I want to strap Andy to me and break Alan Eustace's record.

02:12:20.000 This is the first I've heard of this?

02:12:22.000 That's a hard pass.

02:12:23.000 I told you.

02:12:23.000 I'm working it.

02:12:25.000 Contacting SpaceX and Blue Horizon or whatever it is.

02:12:29.000 So after your hip resurfacing, there's no issues like landing?

02:12:36.000 So the hip was so bad that it was masking the right hip and then about a month after I had the surgery I'm like, wait a second.

02:12:45.000 No, your right hip is killing you.

02:12:46.000 So I've got to have a surgery probably in February for an arthroscopy to see if I can get three more years.

02:12:52.000 And then it's going to be a hip resurfacing again.

02:12:55.000 And then I'll just do the backside of Legacy Expeditions and let these guys do all the crazy stuff.

02:12:59.000 Is the resurfacing where they drill the hole and they put the post in and put a new cap on the top of it?

02:13:04.000 Yeah.

02:13:04.000 So they take half the femur head instead of down at the femur so they retain as much bone as possible.

02:13:10.000 Is that better?

02:13:11.000 It is.

02:13:11.000 So a lot of hockey players do it and return to the sport.

02:13:15.000 It's like the young man's hip replacement.

02:13:17.000 Yeah.

02:13:17.000 I think Frankie Edgar just had that done.

02:13:20.000 Go to Frankie Edgar's Instagram page.

02:13:22.000 I think he's got a photo of an x-ray.

02:13:25.000 I think he had that done fairly recently.

02:13:27.000 And he's still fighting.

02:13:29.000 So they go through the glute.

02:13:31.000 They cut the muscle.

02:13:32.000 The glute muscle.

02:13:33.000 And that's why the recovery is a lot longer than a traditional hip replacement where they go through the thigh and they just move the muscles apart.

02:13:40.000 How come they have to cut the...

02:13:42.000 The way they...

02:13:44.000 Yeah, here's Frankie. 1.00

02:13:45.000 I think there's photos of the actual...

02:13:47.000 Yeah, that's it.

02:13:48.000 That's it? 0.99

02:13:49.000 So they just chop the top off, put that sucker in. 0.98

02:13:52.000 They do that from the back? 0.96

02:13:53.000 Yes.

02:13:54.000 So, I can't get into the specifics, but eventually, if he wears that out, and that's lasted, now it's relatively young, a new procedure, only the last few decades, some people have lasted 25 years, but if he's still fighting...

02:14:12.000 Yo! 1.00

02:14:13.000 That's harsh.

02:14:16.000 Do you guys want to see the scar?

02:14:17.000 No!

02:14:18.000 Not on the screen, just so that people can't see that.

02:14:21.000 So that is, it's like a...

02:14:23.000 Good call, Jamie.

02:14:24.000 So it's a steel cap?

02:14:25.000 Is that what it is?

02:14:27.000 Basically.

02:14:28.000 And it fits into...

02:14:29.000 Do they change the top as well?

02:14:31.000 So they put a metal receptacle in the acetabulum?

02:14:36.000 And how long is that supposed to last?

02:14:39.000 They've seen up to 25 years.

02:14:41.000 It's a relatively new procedure.

02:14:43.000 And at 25 years later, do they have to redo it?

02:14:46.000 So you can't redo that.

02:14:48.000 They're this prepared bone.

02:14:49.000 They can't redo it.

02:14:50.000 So that's when the full hip replacement takes place.

02:14:53.000 Oh boy.

02:14:54.000 So this is just one operation that will lead to possibly another operation.

02:14:59.000 So it says prepared bone, arthritis removed.

02:15:02.000 So that's before they put the cap on.

02:15:04.000 So they have a hole drilled in the top of Frankie's, is that his femur?

02:15:08.000 It is.

02:15:09.000 It would have to be.

02:15:10.000 Femur head. 0.93

02:15:13.000 And then the next, oh boy.

02:15:16.000 So he's got, Frankie had no cartilage in there.

02:15:20.000 Complete wear of cartilage.

02:15:22.000 Yo.

02:15:26.000 Dude, the procedure was well done here in Austin by a guy named Jake Manuel.

02:15:31.000 So the procedure was great.

02:15:33.000 The recovery? 0.84

02:15:34.000 Sucked. 0.93

02:15:35.000 How long did it take? 0.99

02:15:37.000 Basically about six months.

02:15:40.000 You start rehab, right?

02:15:41.000 I mean, you're doing the in-home small movements for about a month and a half, and then you go to physical therapy, but they want you to stay away from any running or major deadlifting or things like that for about four to six months.

02:15:53.000 And then after that, you can run?

02:15:55.000 I'm not running, dude.

02:15:57.000 But you are landing from the sky.

02:16:00.000 If you do it right, it's like stepping off a three-inch step.

02:16:03.000 But I don't do it right.

02:16:04.000 That's the problem.

02:16:05.000 He...

02:16:09.000 I have videos.

02:16:10.000 And is it supposed to be as tough as a regular hip once it's finished and done?

02:16:15.000 So you can do everything?

02:16:16.000 You can kick the bag?

02:16:17.000 You can do jiu-jitsu?

02:16:19.000 You can do all that stuff?

02:16:20.000 Mike doesn't do jiu-jitsu.

02:16:21.000 So guys have returned to MMA. Guys have returned to skydiving.

02:16:25.000 A lot of cyclists haven't done hockey players.

02:16:28.000 So it...

02:16:31.000 It can take some punishment and that's why I sort of keep it for skydiving and I'm not going to run.

02:16:37.000 Running is...

02:16:38.000 I remember trainers at some point later in our SEAL careers are like, hey guys, get your five mile run in and then that's good for the week.

02:16:46.000 Like, focus on higher-level training and save your joints.

02:16:52.000 Tell that to Cameron Haynes.

02:16:53.000 Yeah, seriously.

02:16:54.000 You can tell it to Cameron Haynes.

02:16:56.000 He'll just be like, yeah, cool story.

02:16:59.000 Have you seen a lot of joint injuries in jiu-jitsu?

02:17:01.000 Oh, yeah.

02:17:03.000 Like, that would require something like that?

02:17:04.000 Yeah.

02:17:06.000 Yeah.

02:17:07.000 Because guys are taking it too far?

02:17:09.000 Well, they just train injured.

02:17:10.000 That's the big one.

02:17:12.000 Because the guys train injured and they keep re-injuring things.

02:17:15.000 I feel like I've actually been very lucky so far.

02:17:18.000 Talking with Tim this morning, he's like, oh, I'm on my fifth knee surgery.

02:17:21.000 That would turn a lot of people away.

02:17:23.000 Like, okay, that's great.

02:17:24.000 I don't want to do that.

02:17:26.000 Tim's got another knee surgery that he just went through?

02:17:28.000 I don't think recently.

02:17:30.000 He had an ACL done just about less than a year ago, I want to say.

02:17:36.000 Dr. Kirk Parsley, who was a SEAL that became a doctor, and he was the doctor to the West Coast, so the Navy's made him a doctor similar to Johnny Kim.

02:17:44.000 He said the average SEAL, and this sounds extremely high to me, throughout a 20-year career goes through 11 surgeries.

02:17:51.000 How many did you have?

02:17:53.000 Well, when I got blown up, I had the shrap metal removal, and that was like two or three surgeries, and then I had this hip...

02:18:02.000 Operated on.

02:18:03.000 They released me from training.

02:18:05.000 And I had an arthroscopy to see if they could heal it.

02:18:09.000 And then it was supposed to be a six-month recovery.

02:18:11.000 I ended up in Afghanistan and a troop commander got hurt.

02:18:14.000 And so I slid right into his position prematurely.

02:18:18.000 And probably did just reverse whatever fixed, but it was worth it.

02:18:22.000 It was a great deployment.

02:18:23.000 Zero for me.

02:18:25.000 Zero.

02:18:25.000 Never had a surgery still.

02:18:26.000 Original conduct chassis.

02:18:28.000 Yeah.

02:18:28.000 That's incredible.

02:18:29.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:18:29.000 I feel like I've actually been very lucky.

02:18:31.000 That's very lucky.

02:18:32.000 Well, a lot of jujitsu guys, it's neck and back as well.

02:18:36.000 I know so many guys with like artificial discs.

02:18:39.000 Is that from getting stacked?

02:18:41.000 Yeah. 0.92

02:18:42.000 So my theory on that is if you start stacking me, I'm going to let you right the fuck past. 0.97

02:18:47.000 Because I care more about my neck. 0.99

02:18:49.000 And honestly, who gives a shit about what happens on the mat? 0.98

02:18:52.000 I like it. 0.95

02:18:54.000 I realize that I'm never going to master it.

02:18:57.000 I enjoy the training.

02:18:58.000 It's physically healthy for me.

02:19:00.000 It mentally helps me.

02:19:02.000 I can tell that there's no end to the journey.

02:19:04.000 Nothing that actually happens on the mat matters unless you choose to make it matter and derive your self-worth from that, which I think would probably lead to having pictures like that out there because you're going to take stuff too far.

02:19:15.000 Well, that's a lot of young men.

02:19:17.000 You know, the thing is you getting into it when you're in your 40s is better because you have a better understanding of your vulnerability and also your ego.

02:19:24.000 And this doesn't matter.

02:19:27.000 Training is about getting better.

02:19:29.000 It's not about winning each and every interaction.

02:19:31.000 And in fact, if you try to win each and every interaction, you probably won't get better because you'll be so defensive and you'll be so focused on trying to protect yourself and win that you'll never learn new skills because you won't open up enough.

02:19:46.000 And I want to do it when I'm 60. Yeah, well, pros and cons to picking it up in my 40s.

02:19:54.000 Origin camp.

02:19:55.000 I think we talked about this last time.

02:19:56.000 So they're opening that camp up to 500 people this year. 0.99

02:20:00.000 It was 350 last year, and it's the coolest thing ever because you get to see people in their 20s who have been doing jiu-jitsu since they were four, and they laugh at you, and you're just like, motherfuckers. 0.96

02:20:11.000 And then you see dudes who are late. 0.86

02:20:12.000 So you have an example of both of those things.

02:20:16.000 But I think for me, the safest bet to continue forward, and I try to take this approach even when there, because there, you want to talk about unknown looks?

02:20:24.000 There's no way you could, well, I guess you could probably roll with everybody who's there, but...

02:20:27.000 You would be really, really exhausted.

02:20:30.000 You get to see all of those looks, but at the end of the day, none of it actually matters if you're just there to learn.

02:20:36.000 And that's the approach that I take to it.

02:20:39.000 Spoiler alert, I just turned 45 last week.

02:20:42.000 World champion is not going to ever be on my...

02:20:44.000 You know what I mean?

02:20:45.000 It doesn't matter to me.

02:20:46.000 But I'd really like to have a 60-year-old still on the mat and can still be competitive to whatever degree would be expected at a 60-year-old.

02:20:54.000 Is the love of the sport, love of the knowledge getting better?

02:20:59.000 That, to me, all trumps whether or not you win or lose.

02:21:03.000 Because I think the number one way to lose would be sitting at an operating table like that.

02:21:07.000 100%.

02:21:07.000 Having that ball and socket joint.

02:21:09.000 You're not doing it to compete.

02:21:11.000 I have competed.

02:21:12.000 My coach has said, you know, when you get a new belt, one of the best things that you can do, because I can tell you this from personal experience, that imposter syndrome is super real.

02:21:20.000 So if you get a belt, go and enter a competition because you're going to have somebody likely at your age, at your weight, at your belt, and you can feel it out with somebody who is not in your position.

02:21:31.000 Because you know the game for most people in your gym.

02:21:34.000 Imposter syndrome, pretty much my entire SEAL career.

02:21:38.000 Same here.

02:21:38.000 You said you're doing STEM locally.

02:21:41.000 I just did CPI with Ed Clay and Scott Nelson in August.

02:21:47.000 Tijuana.

02:21:48.000 It's funny, all the jiu-jitsu guys were neck or spine.

02:21:51.000 Oh yeah.

02:21:53.000 They're doing a lot of great stuff though with neck and spine now.

02:21:56.000 They can go into the actual disc itself and inject stem cells and they're having a fantastic response from that.

02:22:02.000 People actually regenerate disc tissue, which is really amazing.

02:22:06.000 So it alleviates a lot of impingements and a lot of pinched nerves and a lot of bulging discs and shit like that.

02:22:13.000 Yeah, it's a great time now for biologics, for, you know, the intervention of, you know, stem cells, mesenchymal stem cells, injecting them into areas and getting some pretty fantastic healing that just wasn't available in the past.

02:22:26.000 You think they'll ever let the stuff that happens down in chips that happen in the U.S.? I fucking hope so. 0.58

02:22:31.000 They should. 0.98

02:22:32.000 How lucrative is it?

02:22:33.000 Oh, we can't do it here.

02:22:34.000 Let's get a flight to San Diego and we'll cross the border. 0.99

02:22:37.000 Yeah, it's fucking nuts. 1.00

02:22:39.000 Is that a religious? 1.00

02:22:41.000 I don't think so.

02:22:42.000 No, I think it's an FDA issue.

02:22:43.000 I think there's probably pressure from pharmaceutical drug companies that would lose money if people developed methods to treat people where they didn't need painkillers and didn't need anti-inflammatories.

02:22:57.000 I mean, it would affect the bottom line.

02:23:00.000 I mean, that sounds gross and evil, but I think there's a legitimate concern.

02:23:05.000 Sounds true also.

02:23:07.000 Yeah, also true. 0.87

02:23:08.000 You know, I mean, the idea that they're doing it to protect people is nonsense because you don't have a lot of people that are doing this overseas and doing it in Colombia and where have you and getting fucked up from it.

02:23:17.000 That's not the case.

02:23:18.000 It's not dangerous.

02:23:19.000 In fact, it's extremely beneficial.

02:23:21.000 You know, I know a lot of people that have gone to Panama to Neil Reardon's place and they've gone to Colombia, the biotech place.

02:23:28.000 You know, bio-accelerator place, rather.

02:23:30.000 And then in Austin, there's ways to weld.

02:23:32.000 They do it here.

02:23:33.000 It's just the things that they can do in other countries is more extreme.

02:23:37.000 And it should be available here.

02:23:39.000 It really should. 0.89

02:23:40.000 And it's kind of fucked up that it's not. 0.94

02:23:42.000 You actually was encouraging. 0.97

02:23:44.000 Ed had his parents going through it the same week we were going through it.

02:23:47.000 And then Rafael Lovato was also there prepping for his upcoming competition.

02:23:52.000 It's real.

02:23:53.000 I mean, it really has helped a lot of people.

02:23:56.000 You know, I know many, many, many people that have done it.

02:24:00.000 Yeah, so that's a good thing if you ever do get injured.

02:24:03.000 There's ways to avoid surgery now.

02:24:06.000 I've had a lot done.

02:24:08.000 Injected into my shoulders, my knees, everything.

02:24:11.000 Fixed my right knee.

02:24:12.000 My right knee doesn't bother me at all anymore. 0.97

02:24:14.000 It was fucking with me for a long time. 0.78

02:24:15.000 The NAD +, which was relatively new to me, that was awesome. 0.97

02:24:21.000 Yeah, that's controversial, that stuff.

02:24:24.000 NAD is controversial.

02:24:25.000 There's people that believe in it wholeheartedly, and there's people that say it doesn't really get in your cells.

02:24:30.000 The problem with all that stuff is a lack of studies.

02:24:36.000 There's stage three studies that Dr. Reardon, who has an office in Dallas, and he's been on my podcast before.

02:24:43.000 I sent my mom down there to Panama a couple of times to get injections.

02:24:48.000 I just know a lot of people that have had great benefit from stem cells, and me personally, too.

02:24:53.000 I'm a big believer in it.

02:24:54.000 Have you had NAD? Yes.

02:24:57.000 Did you feel it in the chest?

02:24:58.000 I did.

02:24:59.000 I have had NAD one time.

02:25:01.000 I had to slow that drip.

02:25:03.000 Yeah.

02:25:03.000 It feels like you're having a heart attack.

02:25:05.000 You gotta smoke weed.

02:25:05.000 I did in 11 minutes once.

02:25:06.000 He's a pussy. 1.00

02:25:07.000 I was racing the guy that was next to me. 1.00

02:25:09.000 Yeah?

02:25:10.000 It's rough. 0.99

02:25:10.000 It fucking hurt. 0.99

02:25:11.000 I was vision questing for a little bit and then I just went and backed it right off. 0.99

02:25:14.000 Yeah, but I've also heard that that's not good.

02:25:17.000 That feeling is just...

02:25:19.000 I don't know.

02:25:20.000 I don't understand the mechanics of what's happening.

02:25:22.000 I don't know enough to...

02:25:23.000 Like I said, it's controversial and I've done it many times.

02:25:26.000 But stem cells, not that controversial.

02:25:30.000 Stem cells I've had great benefits from.

02:25:33.000 Gentlemen, one more time.

02:25:34.000 Give out the website for the last people.

02:25:37.000 Yeah, 777.givesmart.com.

02:25:40.000 And everyone thanks you for your service, and we appreciate that.

02:25:43.000 But when you ask them to make a sacrifice, that's when people usually take a step back.

02:25:47.000 We're asking for help here.

02:25:48.000 7 million, which will be 1,400 scholarships for these kids, both military veterans and first responders.

02:25:56.000 And when the documentary is filmed, any idea when they're planning on trying to release that?

02:26:02.000 I think it's a long time from when they film to actually get something out like that.

02:26:06.000 Like a year?

02:26:07.000 Something like that?

02:26:07.000 Probably.

02:26:08.000 We're going to do, obviously, we'll do as much social stuff as we can do along the way, limited by connectivity.

02:26:13.000 But I think there's a plan for that as well, too.

02:26:16.000 But hopefully between the combination of the actual event itself, the documentary, and it's just, I mean, it's really just a matter of eyeballs.

02:26:22.000 You know, as many eyeballs as you can get on something.

02:26:24.000 Okay, and Andy, give out your social media, too. 0.99

02:26:28.000 It's just my name, Andy Stumpf, the number 212, because some asshole has Andy Stumpf. 0.98

02:26:31.000 Spell your name, because it's a... 0.99

02:26:32.000 It's totally normal.

02:26:34.000 S-T-U-M-P-F, as in Frank.

02:26:36.000 I would have never guessed.

02:26:37.000 And Mike?

02:26:39.000 It's at Mr. Sorelli, S-A-R-R-A-I-L-L-E. All right.

02:26:45.000 Thank you, gentlemen.

02:26:46.000 Thank you.

02:26:46.000 Appreciate it.

02:26:47.000 Thank you.

02:26:48.000 All right.

02:26:48.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 20, 2022

Joe Rogan Experience #1885 Andy Stumpf & Mike Sarraille

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