The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1897 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:13.000 These are some of my all-time favorite podcasts, I just have to tell you.

00:00:16.000 I'm so excited to have you guys in today.

00:00:18.000 I really was.

00:00:18.000 All weekend, I was giddy.

00:00:20.000 I was giddy thinking about today.

00:00:22.000 So, congratulations on the Netflix series.

00:00:25.000 I am super excited to, first of all, to have that on a mainstream platform is such a huge victory for you.

00:00:32.000 Thank you.

00:00:34.000 Congratulations.

00:00:35.000 Thank you.

00:00:35.000 It's all turning in both of your way.

00:00:38.000 I mean there was so much skepticism just years ago but now it seems like with – and even Michael Shermer.

00:00:45.000 You were showing me something that he tweeted today.

00:00:48.000 Oh, no.

00:00:48.000 He tweeted it a while ago.

00:00:49.000 But he walked back on some of his criticisms of our work.

00:00:56.000 It was in light of new evidence of the Younger Dryas Impact Theory.

00:01:00.000 Exactly, exactly.

00:01:02.000 No, it's been a major challenge getting this show done, but it's the first time, I think, that these radical ideas have got onto a major platform.

00:01:12.000 And the whole focus of the thing is summed up in the title of the show, Ancient Apocalypse, because we had an incredible apocalypse that hit this planet, and it wasn't just one moment.

00:01:25.000 It was 1,200 years of hell on earth between roughly 12,800 and 11,600 years ago.

00:01:33.000 And that is not taken into account by mainstream historians and archaeologists.

00:01:39.000 Something that really changed the world needs to be taken into account if we're claiming to have a full knowledge of the past of humanity.

00:01:46.000 And so I'm just really glad that Netflix have I've taken this show on and they're going to blast it out to a worldwide audience.

00:01:53.000 And hopefully that will begin to put more pressure on the academics who frankly – I'm not a conspiracist but they do act as gatekeepers as to what may be allowed out in front of the public and what may be not allowed.

00:02:07.000 Trevor Burrus Yes.

00:02:07.000 And that seems to be because of the books they've written, the lectures they've given, that they've given all these lectures and they've written all these books that have – Theories that are outdated and they don't want to let those theories go in light of the new evidence.

00:02:22.000 They want to push back as much as possible because it frankly weakens their credibility as the arbiters of the truth.

00:02:31.000 Yeah, I think that's the issue.

00:02:33.000 But really some quite sinister things have happened because of this show.

00:02:37.000 I got banned from Egypt.

00:02:40.000 That's the very clever way for archaeologists to make sure that no criticism can come in of their sights, is just to, of their take on things, is just to ban the critic from coming there.

00:02:51.000 I got banned from Serpent Mound in Ohio.

00:02:53.000 Can you imagine that?

00:02:54.000 I mean, Serpent Mound is a national landmark.

00:02:57.000 People should not get banned from going there.

00:03:00.000 When you say banned, meaning you try to go there to film or just to visit?

00:03:03.000 Yeah.

00:03:03.000 When we approached them to make an episode of my Netflix series, At Serpent Mound, initially they were welcoming.

00:03:12.000 And then they heard that Graham Hancock was presenting the series.

00:03:15.000 And immediately they turned around and said, no, filming permission is refused because Hancock's views differ from our own.

00:03:24.000 Well, I was able to make a virtue of that in the sense that I stood at the gates of Serpent Mound, which were closed.

00:03:30.000 And I read out their letter where they say that just because I don't agree with them, they won't allow me access to the site.

00:03:37.000 Fortunately, we have masses of footage, drones, and other things, and we were able to do the show.

00:03:42.000 But it shows, again, the limited mentality.

00:03:45.000 People must be very insecure in their ideas if they actually have to ban critics from expressing alternative ideas.

00:03:53.000 And what is the significance of Serpent Mound?

00:03:56.000 Well, the first and foremost thing is it's an incredible, beautiful, amazing sight, which everybody who can get to Ohio should go and see.

00:04:06.000 It's just a most incredible place.

00:04:08.000 But secondly, there are indications that it's much older than it's supposed to be.

00:04:13.000 And that has particularly to do with the way that the jaws of the serpent line up to the setting sun.

00:04:17.000 And because the changing positions of the sunset due to changes in the Earth's So this is it here?

00:04:22.000 That's it there.

00:04:24.000 That's the head of the serpent and it's looking straight at the setting sun.

00:04:28.000 And this alignment was perfect about 12,500 years ago.

00:04:34.000 It's slightly off today and that's because of changes in the rising point of the sun over thousands and thousands of years.

00:04:41.000 And that's what they don't like.

00:04:42.000 They don't want Serpent Mound to be older.

00:04:44.000 There's one group of archaeologists think it's just a thousand years old.

00:04:46.000 Another group think, well, maybe it's two and a half or three thousand years old.

00:04:50.000 But the notion that it might be 12,000 years old is something they don't want anybody to hear, really.

00:04:55.000 And is the evidence that it's 12,000 years old just based with the alignment of the sun, or is there other evidence?

00:05:01.000 No, there's other evidence as well.

00:05:02.000 There's material from that time that have been found at Serpent Mound, but archaeologists consider it to be irrelevant to the date of Serpent Mound.

00:05:10.000 Yeah, material, like what kind of material?

00:05:28.000 That I've found throughout making Ancient Apocalypse that when you look at a particular site, what you're looking at is the latest incarnation of that site.

00:05:37.000 But the site itself has been sacred for millennia and it needs repair.

00:05:42.000 It needs renovation, particularly if it's an earthen mound like Serpent Mound.

00:05:47.000 And so that is a theme that does seem to be repeated even under modern accepted archaeological understandings of ancient sites like the Parthenon and the Acropolis.

00:06:03.000 Well, I mean, less so.

00:06:05.000 Less so in terms of the timeline.

00:06:07.000 Less so in terms of the timeline.

00:06:09.000 I mean, one of the sites we visited for this series is an incredible pyramid in Mexico at a place called Cholula.

00:06:17.000 And it is, in fact, the largest pyramid in the world.

00:06:19.000 Very few people have even heard of it.

00:06:21.000 But it's a much bigger pyramid than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt.

00:06:24.000 It's not as high, but its footprint is massive.

00:06:28.000 So it's a huge, humongous thing sitting there on the ground.

00:06:32.000 And it turns out that inside it are four other pyramids that were built on top of what we see and what we see now.

00:06:38.000 What we see now was built on top of those older pyramids.

00:06:42.000 And then at the very heart of it is a sort of sacred spring that seems to have been the reason for the creation of that.

00:06:47.000 And we, again, explore the possibility that the origins of this site may be much older than the archaeological dating.

00:06:54.000 So how long did it take you guys to do this series?

00:06:57.000 Well, to be clear, the series is me and it's me making it.

00:07:03.000 But Randall plays an incredibly important role in the series.

00:07:06.000 Randall and I are comrades in arms.

00:07:08.000 We're working together against the mainstream to bring an alternative point of view.

00:07:13.000 And Randall is the star of Episode 8. And Episode 8 is the episode where we bring the whole story of the ancient apocalypse together.

00:07:21.000 The terrible things that happened to this world, the terrible things.

00:07:24.000 That was the time when all the great megafauna went extinct, the saber-toothed tigers, the woolly rhinos and so on and so forth.

00:07:30.000 They all went extinct between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago.

00:07:34.000 And there's evidence of just utterly cataclysmic flooding in North America, particularly in the channeled scab lands in the Pacific Northwest.

00:07:43.000 And that flooding came off the ice cap and something made it come off the ice cap really, really fast.

00:07:48.000 And Randall has just devoted years of his life To studying this mystery, what really went on there?

00:07:54.000 And let's not underestimate it.

00:07:55.000 Let's just not talk about lakes bursting their banks.

00:07:59.000 Let's talk about something huge that took place.

00:08:02.000 And the landscape speaks to that huge event.

00:08:07.000 And, Randall, you've discussed this on the podcast before, but in the interest of making this a standalone show, we should probably get into it before, you came up with this idea.

00:08:18.000 What year was it when that idea first came to your mind?

00:08:25.000 Remember, you were telling me you were on acid, and you were looking at how to...

00:08:29.000 Well, that was 1969. And I didn't quite formulate a specific theory at that point.

00:08:38.000 But you had a thought.

00:08:39.000 I had an impression.

00:08:40.000 I call it an impression.

00:08:42.000 I was looking at an underfit river.

00:08:45.000 You know what that is?

00:08:46.000 No.

00:08:48.000 Jamie, can we do a map?

00:08:50.000 And I'm going to show you exactly what we're talking about here.

00:08:59.000 I'm going to zoom in on...

00:09:02.000 Oh, here you go.

00:09:04.000 Nice.

00:09:06.000 A little HDMI action.

00:09:14.000 Alright, you're going to learn a new term, Joe.

00:09:18.000 It's underfit river.

00:09:20.000 Okay, so it was a little different back in 1969, but Eden Prairie was a Location of an airport.

00:09:28.000 Let me put this onto terrain.

00:09:32.000 Alright, here we go.

00:09:38.000 So this is the Minnesota River Valley.

00:09:43.000 I was standing, I actually went back and found a few years ago, found the spot I was standing and it was right here on this bluff looking into this valley.

00:09:54.000 Now if you go here you can see there's another side to it over here and if you look back here You're going to see this is what's an underfit river.

00:10:05.000 An underfit river is where the modern river is diminutive relative to the channel that it's flowing in.

00:10:12.000 And the channel was part of what they called the spillway of Lake Agassiz, which was a gigantic Meltwater Lake that formed in that interval that Graham was just talking about.

00:10:25.000 So this is the modern Minnesota River, which is a fairly substantial river, probably close to the Colorado here that runs through Austin.

00:10:35.000 But you can see the channel.

00:10:37.000 The channel is huge relative to the river.

00:10:39.000 A few geologists have worked on it and concluded that the meltwater flow through here was 4,000 times greater than the modern flow of the Minnesota River.

00:10:50.000 So anyways, I was standing here looking out into this, and what I saw was the modern river entrenched within a couple of banks, and then I'm looking at this huge channel.

00:11:04.000 And I just had this impression that, was this a huge river channel?

00:11:10.000 You know how?

00:11:11.000 Because, see, when I was looking three miles across, there's another set of 200-foot high bluffs matching the ones that I was standing on.

00:11:18.000 And then below me was the modern Minnesota River with its banks, which were like miniature versions of the bluffs.

00:11:24.000 Now it was a full decade before I actually came back to the idea, as I was beginning to learn more about catastrophism, which was still very much in the seminal stages back in the, say, the 70s.

00:11:39.000 You know, we've learned so much more about the catastrophic history of this planet since then.

00:11:44.000 But then I begin to think, well, and this was before I even knew about Glacial River Warren, it was called, which was the flow through here, and you can actually...

00:11:54.000 I took...

00:11:55.000 Graham, we went there.

00:11:56.000 If we chased...

00:11:57.000 We did, indeed.

00:11:58.000 We did, right up here by Ortonville.

00:12:00.000 Is Big Stone City.

00:12:03.000 So this is the southern outlet of Lake Agassiz.

00:12:08.000 And this was one of the outburst floods, many outburst floods of gigantic flows of melt water coming off the ice sheet.

00:12:15.000 Big Stone City.

00:12:16.000 Now when you look at names of lakes and towns and places, oftentimes there's clues.

00:12:22.000 Like Big Stone City and Big Stone Lake.

00:12:24.000 If you go there, there's big stones laying all over the landscape.

00:12:28.000 That were flushed out in this catastrophic draining of Lake Agassiz.

00:12:32.000 Because these drainings would have involved not just water, but icebergs.

00:12:36.000 Yes.

00:12:37.000 Turbulent flows of water filled with icebergs the size of oil tankers.

00:12:40.000 And inside those icebergs, locked up, are huge chunks of rock.

00:12:45.000 And eventually the iceberg melts and it releases the rock and that's how you get the big stone.

00:12:50.000 Yeah.

00:12:51.000 And then the last place we went, Graham, was the potholes at St. Croix Falls.

00:12:56.000 I'll zoom in here.

00:12:58.000 And this is an interesting place.

00:13:00.000 There's a constriction in the bedrock.

00:13:02.000 This is hard basalt bedrock.

00:13:04.000 When you have water flow coming along, it's got a conservation of volume so that if you have a narrow part of the channel, The water coming in as it's going into that constricted channel speeds up.

00:13:19.000 Because if you take measure of the water flow at any two points along the channel, It's going to be the same.

00:13:26.000 Whether it's a wide channel with shallower water moving slower or a narrower channel with deeper water moving faster, the discharge through that channel is going to be the same.

00:13:37.000 Well, what happens is if it comes into a constriction, it has to speed up then.

00:13:41.000 When it speeds up, it becomes more erosive.

00:13:44.000 And that's exactly what happened right here at Taylors Falls and right here at Interstate Park.

00:13:50.000 is a series of gigantic potholes.

00:13:52.000 Now these potholes are evidence of intense turbulence within swiftly moving deep water.

00:14:00.000 In a minute here, I'll pull up.

00:14:02.000 I've got a great shot.

00:14:03.000 When Graham and I were there, I was in the bottom of one of these potholes and Graham is peering over the rim.

00:14:09.000 And it's a great shot because you can really get the sense of the scale.

00:14:12.000 I'll pull it up here in a second.

00:14:14.000 But if we go, where did this water come from?

00:14:16.000 This water came from Right up here.

00:14:24.000 Lake Nipigon.

00:14:25.000 That was the source of this water.

00:14:27.000 And when you go south of Lake Nipigon, the whole landscape is channel scab lands, just like Graham and I were seeing out in Washington.

00:14:35.000 And this is very convincing evidence of really catastrophic water flows.

00:14:40.000 And I've always thought it's interesting, or at least for the last decade or so, that if you look at the elevation of the land here, you look at the elevation of the land over here, it's the same.

00:14:49.000 But if you go in the middle here, it's 500 to 1,000 feet lower.

00:14:54.000 What happened here, there was a major discharge south out of Lake Nipigon, came down through...

00:15:02.000 And I think we should add that Lake Nipigon was discharging because it was filled up with water that came out of the ice cap and filled it up.

00:15:09.000 What is the conventional explanation for these massive bluffs that are very far apart from each other with a relatively small river running through them?

00:15:17.000 Try as I might, I've never found an explanation.

00:15:20.000 But you can look here at this...

00:15:23.000 And this is pure, what you call scab land, which is the result of major erosional Intense erosion.

00:15:31.000 Cutting out, this is a coulee, but...

00:15:33.000 It looks like somebody's just been picking scabs off the skin of the land, and that was these water flows rushing through it, filled with icebergs and whole forests ripped up by their roots.

00:15:43.000 Naturally, it looks like torn up scabs.

00:15:45.000 And so it's your assertion that this all came out of the cataclysm, that this all came out of the impacts, the comet impacts?

00:15:54.000 James Teller, a geologist, has dated these flows.

00:15:59.000 12,800 to 12,900 years ago.

00:16:01.000 And how has he done that?

00:16:03.000 Radiocarbon dating primarily by finding, if you have a flood and it's picking up anything organic, bone, wood, whatever, and then you look in those deposits, And you sample.

00:16:15.000 And the samples, let's say, because it's a flood, what it's going to do, it's going to pick up younger and older material because it's washing away, it's excavating other land.

00:16:25.000 And so what you do is you get enough datable material.

00:16:29.000 And if it keeps coming up that the maximum age is a given age, that's probably when the flood happened.

00:16:35.000 Or a minimum age, rather, not a maximum age.

00:16:37.000 In other words, a flood might pick up stuff that's 15,000 years old and 12,000 Well, when did the flood happen?

00:16:44.000 At 15,000 or 12,000?

00:16:46.000 So what you do is you look for the youngest dateable material, and that should usually give you a pretty good idea of when the flood happened.

00:16:52.000 So James Teller has dated this overflow here, and again, it comes out perfectly consistent with the Younger Dryas.

00:17:00.000 I think it's important to add at that point that there's a reason for all of this, and this is a huge controversy in science at the moment.

00:17:11.000 We know that there was enormous flooding 12,800 years ago, but the question is what caused it?

00:17:17.000 Why did it happen then?

00:17:20.000 And there's a very powerful theory, which is now backed by more than 100 mainstream scientists, that the Earth passed through the debris stream of a disintegrating comet.

00:17:30.000 And that theory is called the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis.

00:17:34.000 And those several bits of that disintegrating comet might have been pretty big, maybe up to a kilometer in diameter.

00:17:40.000 And they landed on the North American ice cap, generating huge amounts of heat, tremendous shock wave hits the ice cap, and it turns that ice into water and it rushes down southwards, fills up these lakes, overflows these lakes, and tears up the landscape underneath it.

00:17:57.000 And this Younger Dryas impact hypothesis is by far, in my view, the best explanation of what's going on.

00:18:06.000 I'm very happy to say that the Comet Research Group, the 100 scientists who are behind this, they've been funding their own research for nearly two decades because no big mainstream institution would get behind them.

00:18:17.000 But just in the last couple of years, some big funding has come into the Comet Research Group.

00:18:22.000 And they're now in a position to go look at Antarctic ice, to go look at all the evidence from all over the world that shows that this cataclysm did happen 12,800 years ago and that we're dealing with something really that is almost unimaginable in its scope.

00:18:40.000 And which should change the way that we look at the history of the human species if it were not for this resistance.

00:18:47.000 I wonder if we could just show a short clip which has got Randall in it, the Randall clip, which is from the ancient apocalypse show.

00:19:02.000 And where Randall makes the point at the end of it that once we take this into account, the whole story of history is going to change completely.

00:19:12.000 And that's what we're fighting for.

00:19:14.000 We're fighting for some recognition that something really important is missing.

00:19:19.000 All right, here we go.

00:19:20.000 Ancient structures built with surprising sophistication.

00:19:25.000 It's the most amazing archaeoastronomy site in North America.

00:19:29.000 Revealing the fingerprints of an advanced prehistoric civilization.

00:19:34.000 This pillar is like our Rosetta Stone.

00:19:37.000 The possibility of civilization emerging earlier than we think gets much stronger.

00:19:43.000 It's gonna absolutely demand a rewriting of history as we know it.

00:19:51.000 And this is the point.

00:19:53.000 This is why I've made this series, because that idea has to get out there, that we've got to stop being so complacent about how we look at our past.

00:20:03.000 And for the very same reason, we need to stop being so complacent about how we look at our future as well.

00:20:09.000 We live in a hazardous cosmic environment.

00:20:11.000 It just happens that we live at a time in the human story where if we chose to do so, we could actually do something about it.

00:20:18.000 What motivated you to get involved in this?

00:20:21.000 I know Fingerprints of the Gods you released in the 90s.

00:20:24.000 It was 1995. That's when I first read it and I became obsessed.

00:20:29.000 What motivated you to put that out?

00:20:32.000 It was a process really.

00:20:36.000 I used to be a current affairs journalist.

00:20:38.000 I was the East Africa correspondent for The Economist.

00:20:40.000 I had no interest in history whatsoever.

00:20:42.000 But I began to come across things, particularly traveling initially in Ethiopia and then in Egypt, which made me wonder about the past.

00:20:51.000 And, you know, standing in front of the Great Pyramid of Egypt is an awe-inspiring experience, especially when you've never seen it before.

00:20:58.000 And in 1989, when I first saw it, I had never seen it before.

00:21:01.000 6 million tons, 481 foot high, 13 acre footprint, this massive thing.

00:21:07.000 And archaeologists are saying it's just the tomb of a pharaoh and yet no pharaoh's body was ever found inside it or indeed inside any ancient Egyptian pyramid.

00:21:16.000 There had to be another explanation.

00:21:18.000 And I started to – I've always been a contrarian.

00:21:21.000 I've always tried to give an opposite point of view.

00:21:23.000 I hate it when there's just a single narrative that says this is the truth and there is no other truth.

00:21:28.000 And so I felt it was important to start giving an alternative point of view and I started to look into it in depth.

00:21:35.000 Could there be something missing from the story of our past?

00:21:38.000 And that's why I ended up writing Fingerprints of the Gods, to put that information before the public.

00:21:43.000 To allow people access to information that they had not had access to before and to begin to think for themselves instead of just accepting the word of the so-called experts.

00:21:53.000 The experts know a great deal.

00:21:54.000 I couldn't do anything I do without the work that archaeologists do.

00:21:59.000 But they shouldn't be given a monopoly over the story of the human past.

00:22:02.000 Our past belongs to us.

00:22:04.000 It belongs to all of us.

00:22:05.000 And everybody, whether they're an academic or whether they're a man in the street, they've got something to contribute to the idea of our past.

00:22:13.000 And the Younger Dryas Impact Theory, when was that first brought out?

00:22:18.000 2007. That was when it first brought out.

00:22:21.000 It immediately caught my eye because when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods, I proposed that there had been a gigantic global cataclysm about 12,500 years ago.

00:22:32.000 But I didn't really know what had caused it.

00:22:35.000 I suggested a number of possibilities and then suddenly in 2007 out comes this hypothesis with mainstream backing by mainstream scientists saying that it looks like there was a series, not just one impact but multiple impacts all over the earth around 12,800 years ago that caused this cataclysm and I began to follow that theory and by about 2013 it became clear to me that these scientists were onto something really big And I dived back into it and ended up writing another couple

00:23:05.000 of books, Magicians of the Gods and America Before, which we talked about on your show back in 2019, just to try to put that information out there.

00:23:13.000 And it's fascinating, really, very lazy, the way that archaeologists react to an alternative point of view.

00:23:22.000 In my case, they almost never get to grips with the material that I've put out there in the books.

00:23:27.000 They just say, oh, Hancock, he's a pseudoscientist.

00:23:30.000 He's a fraud. 1.00

00:23:32.000 He's a liar. 1.00

00:23:33.000 But they never say why I'm a pseudoscientist, why I'm a fraud or why I'm a liar. 0.98

00:23:37.000 They just throw those words out and you go to Wikipedia and that's what you see.

00:23:41.000 And the point about Wikipedia is that's the first place – if somebody hears my name or hears about my ideas, the first place they're going to go have a look is Wikipedia.

00:23:50.000 And immediately they're going to get turned off and you can't edit my Wikipedia page.

00:23:54.000 They've locked it and it's controlled by a group of academics.

00:23:58.000 So I do find this incredibly irritating but the only thing to do is to keep on going and this is why, frankly, Joe, your show has been so important because you're one of the very few people who's allowed this information to get out to the general public, this contrary information which the mainstream doesn't want to hear.

00:24:15.000 You're a powerful platform that's allowed this information to reach so many more people than it otherwise would have reached, and I'm grateful to you for that.

00:24:21.000 Well, I'm grateful to you guys.

00:24:23.000 I'm really grateful because it's such an exciting notion.

00:24:27.000 It's such an exciting idea.

00:24:29.000 And it makes sense when you look at these incredible structures that we don't really have an explanation for.

00:24:36.000 And when we think about the conventional dating of modern history and modern civilization, They want to put it around 6,000-ish years ago.

00:25:05.000 I think?

00:25:21.000 Which is 11,600 years old.

00:25:24.000 It's 5,000 years old than the supposed oldest megalithic structures.

00:25:27.000 And it's a fucking enormous megalithic structure, probably the biggest megalithic structure on Earth because so much of it is still underground, although we know what's there because of ground-penetrating radar.

00:25:38.000 Highly sophisticated, 20-ton pillars, beautiful astronomical alignments. 0.94

00:25:43.000 It's buried, deliberately buried by the people who created it.

00:25:46.000 They ran it for about a thousand years and then they deliberately buried it.

00:25:50.000 And archaeology is still struggling to explain this.

00:25:52.000 They've now had to say, well, okay, somehow megalithic architecture began thousands of years before we thought it began.

00:25:59.000 How are we going to explain this?

00:26:02.000 And they have to accept this is one of the mysteries of Gobekli Tepe.

00:26:07.000 The archaeology does show this quite clearly, that when the work began on Gobekli Tepe 11,600 years ago, the entire population there were hunter-gatherers.

00:26:17.000 They were not agriculturalists, generating those supposed surpluses that would allow experts in architecture to emerge.

00:26:25.000 They were hunter-gatherers.

00:26:26.000 And how, in God's name, do a group of hunter-gatherers wake up one morning and create something like this, this enormous scale, and then...

00:26:35.000 The mystery deepens because at the same time that they're building the megalithic site, they're also suddenly doing agriculture.

00:26:42.000 And I look at that as a contrarian and I say I actually don't think that this was something that was just dreamed up overnight by a group of hunter-gatherers.

00:26:50.000 I think I'm looking at a transfer of technology.

00:26:53.000 I think people came to that site who already knew how to do this stuff.

00:26:57.000 And maybe they used that site to mobilize the local population, to push them into a new direction.

00:27:03.000 And that was truly the beginnings of civilization as we know it.

00:27:06.000 But I think it was a restarting of civilization, a reboot, not the actual beginnings.

00:27:12.000 I think there was an earlier lost civilization.

00:27:14.000 That's the whole point of the show I've made.

00:27:17.000 Why don't you mention about that particular date, 11,600?

00:27:21.000 Well, it's incredibly important.

00:27:22.000 It's an incredibly important date because the Younger Dryas begins 12,800 years ago with a cataclysm, with a puzzling, mysterious rise in sea level at the same point.

00:27:32.000 1,000 years of freezing temperatures, mass extinctions of animal species all over the world, and then 11,600 years ago, global temperature shoots up.

00:27:42.000 The last of the ice caps collapse into the sea.

00:27:44.000 Sea level rises enormously.

00:27:47.000 That is the date that work starts at Gobekli Tepe, and that's a point I've made many times, but it's really worth making because archaeologists roll their eyes every time you say the word Atlantis.

00:27:58.000 But that is precisely the date that Plato, which is the earliest surviving reference to Atlantis, that's precisely the date he gives for the destruction of Atlantis, 11,600 years before our time.

00:28:10.000 He puts it this way, that his ancestor Solon visited Egypt.

00:28:14.000 And we know about that visit.

00:28:16.000 It's historically recorded.

00:28:17.000 That visit to Egypt was in 600 BC. And there Solon claimed to have been told by Egyptian priests about this great advanced civilization that once existed but that angered the gods and was destroyed in an enormous flood.

00:28:32.000 And Solon asked those Egyptian priests, when did this happen?

00:28:36.000 And they said, oh, 9,000 years ago.

00:28:39.000 Well, do the math.

00:28:40.000 That's in 600 BC. That's 9,000 years before 600 BC. We call that 9,600 BC. That's 11,600 years ago.

00:28:50.000 That's exactly the date of the end of the Younger Dryas, and it's exactly the date of what is called Meltwater Pulse 1b, one of the biggest single rises overnight in sea level that ever occurred.

00:29:02.000 So if Plato made it up...

00:29:04.000 It's really weird that he picked a date that is precisely a date that coincides with the latest geological evidence on cataclysmic sea level rise at the end of the Ice Age.

00:29:16.000 Could be a coincidence, but I will mention I did a two-parter on all of what Graham was just talking about and the geological evidence that confirms or refutes Plato's account, and it's available on my website.

00:29:40.000 Yeah, you go deep, bro.

00:29:42.000 You go deep.

00:29:43.000 And you see, the academics have never bothered to do this because in their pride and in their arrogance, they just say, oh, we know that Plato just made it up, that it's just a fantasy.

00:29:51.000 They don't know that.

00:29:52.000 And it's people like Randall coming from the outside who are actually doing the legwork that makes us think about all this again.

00:29:58.000 And there's plenty of evidence that there were many sites like this that were thought to be just legend and myth, like Troy, for instance.

00:30:08.000 That has now been proven to be an actual real city that mimics the initial descriptions of it, the historical descriptions of it.

00:30:15.000 We should never dismiss myths.

00:30:16.000 We should always listen to them.

00:30:18.000 They're the memory bank of our species, and they may be expressed in symbolic language.

00:30:23.000 There may be wonderful stories built around them, but at the core is factual information.

00:30:28.000 And what better way to ensure that factual information is passed down to the future than to record it in a fantastic story that people will pass on.

00:30:39.000 People love telling stories and they don't even need to understand what the heart of the story is.

00:30:43.000 As long as it's a great story, they're going to keep on passing it down to the future.

00:30:46.000 So I think myth is very important and that's something that we do in my Netflix series is we look at the myths.

00:30:53.000 The story of Atlantis is not alone.

00:30:55.000 There are thousands of traditions from all around the world speaking of a global flood that destroyed a former civilization that brought to an end a golden age.

00:31:04.000 With all this physical evidence and with all these myths, are there more and more people that are accepting this or exploring this with curiosity and open-mindedness now?

00:31:17.000 I would say yes.

00:31:18.000 And one of the things that makes me confident that that's happening is because I am getting a lot of emails and communications from people Young people going, you know what?

00:31:30.000 I was watching your stuff and Graham's stuff.

00:31:33.000 I've decided I'm going to go into geology.

00:31:35.000 I mean, I've gotten dozens.

00:31:36.000 Or I'm going to go into paleontology or archaeoastronomy or archaeology.

00:31:41.000 So just the fact that I'm getting those kinds of communications from people, every time I get one, that's encouraging to me.

00:31:49.000 Because I think it's the old axiom that sometimes...

00:31:55.000 You know, in order to evolve past an entrenched theory, the gatekeepers have to pass away and a new generation has to come along who's a little more willing to look outside that dogmatic framework.

00:32:07.000 Also, if you are a young archaeologist and you're trying to carve your way in the world, what better way?

00:32:13.000 Then to explore this with tons of evidence that's very controversial theory that's been dismissed.

00:32:21.000 Takes courage though.

00:32:22.000 Takes courage on the part of those archaeologists because they can lose any hope of promotion if they touch ideas like this.

00:32:28.000 Archaeology is a very restrictive discipline.

00:32:30.000 If you don't copy what your professor says, if you go off on a tangent, they'll cut you off.

00:32:36.000 There's so many people who've done such great work in archaeology that doesn't fit with the mainstream and they just get Isolated by their colleagues.

00:32:44.000 I'm hopeful.

00:32:46.000 I really am.

00:32:47.000 And one of the things that gives me hope is Brian Moralescu's, the reception of his material.

00:32:53.000 That book, The Immortality Key, which is fantastic, which points to...

00:32:57.000 Which I wrote the foreword to.

00:32:59.000 Yes.

00:32:59.000 And you did that podcast with us remotely.

00:33:01.000 Yeah.

00:33:02.000 When we did that and he expressed all this information, we talked about these ancient clay vessels that show clear evidence of some sort of psychedelic that was mixed in with wine that was probably the origins of a lot of these...

00:33:23.000 Even democracy, the enlightenment, a lot of it came from these meetings and people came from all over the world to participate in these rituals.

00:33:32.000 This is now being widely accepted and it's a field of study at Harvard.

00:33:38.000 Let's think about it.

00:33:39.000 If you're locked, this is one of the reasons why psychedelics are being so successful in healing people with profound depression.

00:33:47.000 Because what is profound depression otherwise that you're locked in a very narrow frame that you just can't escape from.

00:33:54.000 And what psychedelics seem to do is they break that lock.

00:33:57.000 And they allow a kind of openness to come in and new thoughts to come in.

00:34:01.000 So it's not surprising that psychedelics revolutionized the ancient world.

00:34:06.000 And I'm absolutely convinced that there isn't a religion in the world, and this is going to annoy a lot of people, that there isn't a religion in the world that didn't begin with experiences in altered states of consciousness.

00:34:17.000 And when we talk about a lost civilization, I believe that that was a civilization that grew out of shamanism and for which altered states of consciousness were fundamental.

00:34:27.000 We've been taught to despise altered states of consciousness in our society today.

00:34:32.000 We're supposed to just be alert problem solvers and not doing anything else.

00:34:36.000 But it's out of altered states of consciousness that the real creativity comes and that changes in mindset come and that people can break free from previous restrictions and move in new directions.

00:34:48.000 I have mentioned to you a friend of mine, Ben Johnson, he's a former Navy SEAL, 11 years as a Navy SEAL, suffering from PTSD, discovered psilocybin mushrooms.

00:34:59.000 This is maybe 12 years ago, 13 years ago, and he began to, a lot of his brothers-in-arms also were having the same issues with PTSD, discovered that psilocybin mushrooms were a very effective treatment for it.

00:35:15.000 So he began looking into...

00:35:17.000 He became a grower.

00:35:20.000 And he's perfected, and over like 11 or 12 years, he's perfected the growing technique.

00:35:25.000 And he has now been granted the first federal license to legally grow psilocybin.

00:35:32.000 And they're building a laboratory in North Georgia.

00:35:35.000 And it'll probably be where...

00:35:38.000 We eventually will get all of our shrooms from. 0.68

00:35:42.000 It would be a very interesting discussion for you to talk to him.

00:35:45.000 I'd love to talk to him.

00:35:46.000 About what he's got going on.

00:35:49.000 And I've asked, I said, would you ever think about going on Joe's show and see and talk about what you're doing?

00:35:54.000 He said, I'd love to.

00:35:56.000 A very interesting man.

00:35:57.000 But yeah, 11 years as a Navy SEAL and he saw it all.

00:36:01.000 And mushrooms is what saved his life.

00:36:04.000 And now, he's building a laboratory.

00:36:06.000 He's got funding.

00:36:07.000 He's building a multi-million dollar laboratory in North Georgia.

00:36:10.000 I've seen his operation.

00:36:12.000 It's mind-blowingly impressive what he's got going on.

00:36:15.000 Well, that connects us with Dennis McKenna and Terence McKenna's ideas.

00:36:20.000 Human beings literally evolving from lower hominids experimenting with psilocybin mushrooms.

00:36:28.000 It's a very powerful idea, and kudos to Terence McKenna.

00:36:33.000 I never knew Terence personally, but I do know Dennis very, very well, and he's a fantastic researcher.

00:36:40.000 In this field, kudos to them for realizing Terence's book was called Food of the Gods, that the encounters with psychedelics, with ancient psychedelics, were what put humanity on a huge leap forward.

00:36:54.000 And then unfortunately, we have repressive forces in society that have tried to shut that down and demonize it.

00:37:02.000 But We are missing a very, very important part of our heritage with the attitude that we have to psychedelics right now.

00:37:09.000 And that's why I'm so happy to see that mainstream research is finally getting involved in this.

00:37:14.000 They're realizing that these are real healing vehicles, that they can do things that no other big pharma medicine can do.

00:37:22.000 My only concern is that...

00:37:23.000 Big Pharma takes it over and that they start putting in synthetic psilocybin and patenting it in various ways.

00:37:33.000 Again, it's like our past.

00:37:35.000 This is a birthright of all humanity, which we should have a right to.

00:37:38.000 Governments should not have a right to tell adults what they may or may not put in their bodies.

00:37:44.000 Governments should not have that right to hold the keys to our consciousness.

00:37:49.000 These should be matters of personal decision.

00:37:52.000 And for the same reason, looking into the issue of a lost civilization, we should not look for ourselves in the past.

00:37:58.000 We should not look for 21st century civilization with all its particular kinds of tech and all its attitudes.

00:38:04.000 We should be open to something very different in the past, which was nevertheless capable of doing extraordinary things.

00:38:11.000 Is there any evidence that the ancient Egyptians utilized psychedelics?

00:38:15.000 Definitely.

00:38:15.000 The ancient Egyptians definitely used psychedelics.

00:38:19.000 Their psychedelic of choice was the blue water lily, which was tinctured in wine.

00:38:29.000 And bottles of this were found in the tomb of Tutankhamun, as a matter of fact.

00:38:34.000 I've not experienced blue water lily myself, but apparently it induces a deeply altered state of consciousness and opens up visions and possibilities.

00:38:43.000 We shouldn't despise these things.

00:38:46.000 Do we know what the psychedelic compound in blue water lily is?

00:38:49.000 I'm not sure.

00:38:50.000 I'm not sure what it is.

00:38:52.000 All I know is that it induces a dreamlike, visionary state.

00:38:57.000 So we know for a fact that they utilize this based on...

00:39:00.000 Yes, we do.

00:39:01.000 Based on those bottles that were found in Tutankhamen.

00:39:04.000 Here it is.

00:39:04.000 Blue water lilies hold the key to stunning different high.

00:39:08.000 Besides being stunningly beautiful, the blue water lily has some surprising medicinal qualities, ranging from being an aphrodisiac to alleviating pain, depression, to even upset stomachs.

00:39:18.000 The blue water lily also has a dark underbelly.

00:39:22.000 It's got dark underbelly.

00:39:23.000 It's got psychedelic properties that can catapult you into a super high.

00:39:27.000 How's that dark?

00:39:29.000 Also called...

00:39:30.000 That's the propaganda again.

00:39:32.000 Yeah.

00:39:32.000 The blue lotus.

00:39:33.000 The blue water lily is believed to have originated in Egypt's Nile River and was used by ancient Egyptians as a sacred substance to attain higher levels of consciousness.

00:39:42.000 In fact, it's common to find symbols representing the blue lotus in Egyptian pillars and scrolls.

00:39:48.000 And that's a fact.

00:39:49.000 It's all over ancient Egyptian art.

00:39:52.000 And Egyptologists will tell you that they're holding those just to sniff the perfume.

00:39:55.000 No, they're not.

00:39:57.000 They're venerating them for their effects on consciousness.

00:40:01.000 And to which we should add that the ancient Egyptian tree of life It was an acacia tree, and its bark contains dimethyltryptamine, the most powerful hallucinogen known to man.

00:40:13.000 I don't like the word hallucinogen, but that's the one we have to use.

00:40:16.000 Entheogen, whatever we want to say.

00:40:18.000 The most powerful.

00:40:19.000 Known to science.

00:40:21.000 And again, fortunately, there is now very interesting research going on into these things.

00:40:26.000 So there are so many forbidden areas of our past which have been forbidden by the experts, by the so-called authorities, which gradually, in the new mindset of the 21st century, we are breaking through to.

00:40:39.000 I think what's special about our time, and by goodness, it's a time of We're good to go.

00:40:59.000 We're good to go.

00:41:05.000 And what's happening now is that people distrust experts and they rightly and properly distrust experts because again and again the experts have misled us.

00:41:15.000 And this is true with psychedelics and it's true with the study of the ancient past of the human species as well.

00:41:21.000 It's absurd that a small group of academics called archaeologists should literally hold the keys to the whole human past and tell us, lecture us, instruct us I think?

00:41:54.000 They're still rolled up right now.

00:41:56.000 And you've got up there and you've brought new information to the table.

00:41:59.000 And that's one of the things I'd like to say, that everybody can do this.

00:42:02.000 This is our past, our heritage.

00:42:05.000 It should not be controlled by a tiny specialist group.

00:42:09.000 We had dinner together in London and you were speaking about research that's being done on dimethyltryptamine.

00:42:15.000 Can you talk about that?

00:42:17.000 Well, that's happening at Imperial College.

00:42:19.000 And I recently attended an event just a few weeks ago with several of the volunteers in that project.

00:42:25.000 And what's happening is they are legally being given DMT at Imperial College, which is one of the leading research institutes in the UK. And for the first time ever, they're not looking to find out what are the possible therapeutic outcomes of this.

00:42:43.000 They're actually looking at the experience itself.

00:42:46.000 It's very well known, anybody who's used DMT. I've used DMT multiple times.

00:42:52.000 It's going to have entity encounters.

00:42:54.000 They're going to meet entities who may sometimes look very weird.

00:42:59.000 They may be part animal, part human in form.

00:43:01.000 They may be almost formless, but yet they speak to you.

00:43:04.000 They communicate with you. 1.00

00:43:05.000 And of course, the mainstream attitude, ah, this is just rubbish. 1.00

00:43:08.000 This is just your brain on drugs. 0.99

00:43:09.000 Well, Imperial College, they're now testing that view.

00:43:12.000 And what they're finding is that these – and something else – DMT, as I'm sure you know, Joe, is a very short-acting experience when you smoke it.

00:43:22.000 It's about 12 minutes, maybe less.

00:43:25.000 You're in there.

00:43:27.000 You're plunged into a completely convincing, sometimes terrifying, parallel reality.

00:43:34.000 It's so confusing.

00:43:36.000 You hardly know what's going on, and then you're out again.

00:43:40.000 But you come out with a feeling that something's been downloaded to you.

00:43:44.000 In Imperial College, they found a way to keep people in the peak state of DMT for an hour.

00:43:50.000 They're delivering it through drip, through timed release, and they're keeping the volunteers in an hour in that state.

00:43:56.000 So they have time to find their way around the DMT realm that they find themselves in. 0.83

00:44:03.000 And the astonishing thing is that these volunteers, both men and women, are all coming back With accounts of meeting the same entities and the same world.

00:44:12.000 And it has to raise the question.

00:44:13.000 I know Rick Strassman has been on your show and kudos to Rick Strassman because he was really the first scientist to work with DMT and human volunteers at the University of New Mexico.

00:44:25.000 Rick Strassman is open to the idea that what happens with DMT is that it alters the receiver wavelength of the brain.

00:44:32.000 And that it allows us to gain access to other realities, that these encounters are not unreal, that they're real but they're real on a level that we can't experience in a day-to-day state of consciousness.

00:44:44.000 We have to be in an altered state of consciousness in order to experience them.

00:44:48.000 And ultimately the aim of this project is to map the DMT realm.

00:44:52.000 You know, we talk a lot about extraterrestrials and ETs and making contact and I'm sure the universe is filled with life and it would be a very good thing to have the tech to make contact or perhaps not a good thing with all those other life forms in the universe.

00:45:06.000 But right there in the DMT experience, inside our own heads, we have the opportunity to encounter another world.

00:45:15.000 I think?

00:45:29.000 Zooming off to other planets.

00:45:31.000 Let's do both.

00:45:32.000 But let's make sure that we understand that consciousness is an enormous mystery.

00:45:38.000 And at the level of consciousness, DMT opens up literally a parallel world.

00:45:43.000 And there's a nexus here with quantum physics and with the notion of parallel realms and parallel realities.

00:45:50.000 Maybe we can actually access them.

00:45:52.000 Well, the work at Imperial College ultimately is going to come up with some answers on that.

00:45:57.000 And so much more cost-effective.

00:45:59.000 So much more cost-effective.

00:46:01.000 Than traveling to other galaxies.

00:46:02.000 Yeah.

00:46:02.000 I mean, let's do that first.

00:46:04.000 Let's understand what we are.

00:46:06.000 Let's understand what our consciousness is.

00:46:08.000 Let's not just keep locked in this, we're here to produce, we're here to consume, we're here to buy cars.

00:46:14.000 Sure, those are all part of our life today, but it's not all of us.

00:46:18.000 We're much more mysterious, much deeper creatures than that.

00:46:21.000 And psychedelics offer a doorway We're good to go.

00:46:45.000 I'm just saying that if we're going to do that, we need to explore the mystery of consciousness.

00:46:49.000 And if we're going to have – if we're seriously going to engage with the ET abduction phenomenon, with extraterrestrial – so-called extraterrestrial encounters, we must recognize that fundamental to this is consciousness.

00:47:03.000 It's not just physical contact.

00:47:06.000 There's consciousness involved.

00:47:07.000 I wrote a book back in 2005 called Supernatural Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind.

00:47:14.000 And it is astonishing, Joe, how encounters that were described as encounters with elves and fairies in the Middle Ages, encounters that shamans to this day describe as encounters with spirits, that all the characteristics of those encounters apply to encounters with so-called extraterrestrials today.

00:47:37.000 It's as though in each generation, each civilization, we construe experiences according to our cultural background.

00:47:46.000 So they call them fairies and elves in the Middle Ages.

00:47:49.000 Shamans call them spirits.

00:47:50.000 We call them ETs today.

00:47:52.000 But if we're really going to crack this problem, and it is a problem, and it is a mystery.

00:47:56.000 I'm not dismissing it.

00:47:58.000 It's a very important mystery.

00:47:59.000 If we're going to crack it, we're going to have to use psychedelics to explore the mysteries of consciousness.

00:48:07.000 Yeah, I'm very excited that the attitudes about this stuff from the general public, people are much more open-minded now than ever before.

00:48:17.000 Yeah.

00:48:18.000 I mean, ever in my lifetime.

00:48:19.000 I remember discussing with people doing DMT in the early 2000s and people were like, what is wrong with you?

00:48:26.000 Exactly. 0.98

00:48:26.000 Are you crazy? 0.98

00:48:27.000 Exactly. 0.52

00:48:27.000 And now almost everybody and their cousin has a story about trying ayahuasca or doing psilocybin or having some sort of an experience with peyote. 0.52

00:48:37.000 Yeah, it's very widespread.

00:48:40.000 And I would say it's part of an overall change in our society, which is extremely healthy, which is the change of Of just accepting what the experts tell us.

00:48:51.000 Oh, a scientist said this, so it must be true.

00:48:54.000 We're starting to think for ourselves and we're not willing any longer to be told what to think.

00:49:01.000 We're wanting to find out for ourselves and that attitude has very much affected the way that people relate to psychedelics.

00:49:08.000 Explore the psychedelic experience in a responsible way.

00:49:11.000 And psychedelics are very serious business.

00:49:13.000 You and I both know this.

00:49:14.000 They're very, very serious business.

00:49:16.000 I would not encourage children to take psychedelics.

00:49:19.000 But actually if we want to keep children away from psychedelics, we'd be far better to make them legal than leave them illegal and available on the black market.

00:49:26.000 I think it's something for the mature mind.

00:49:29.000 But I regard it as a fundamental human right of adults to be able to explore our own consciousness so long as we do no harm to others.

00:49:38.000 And I see this attitude spreading much more widely in society.

00:49:42.000 What the hell is that guy in a suit?

00:49:44.000 What right has he got to tell me how I treat my own health or how I treat my own consciousness? 0.66

00:49:51.000 So long as I do no harm to others, that is entirely my business and nobody else's.

00:49:55.000 Agreed.

00:49:56.000 And if this is the source of civilization or one of the reasons why people were able to think so creatively and create these incredible structures thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago, this all does coincide with this work about these apocalyptic scenarios that you guys are talking about because If we don't have an understanding of how we got to where we were and we also don't have an understanding that this can happen

00:50:26.000 to us again, it's very possible for us to happen again.

00:50:29.000 It's indeed possible for it to happen again and in the eighth episode of Ancient Apocalypse, one of the scientists from The Comet Research Group makes that point, that the comet that disintegrated, that caused so much damage on Earth 12,800 years ago,

00:50:45.000 its debris stream is still in orbit.

00:50:48.000 The Earth passes through it twice a year.

00:50:50.000 And in the next 30 years, we're going to be passing through a very lumpy bit of this 30 million kilometer wide debris stream that's called the Taurid Meteor Stream.

00:50:59.000 We should be paying much more attention to that because it's not doom and gloom, because we can do something about it should we choose to do so.

00:51:06.000 And let's...

00:51:06.000 Let's stop focusing all our efforts on fighting one another and hating one another and filling the world with anger and fury.

00:51:13.000 And let's work together as a human species to make life on this planet better for everybody.

00:51:19.000 That's what's going on now.

00:51:22.000 There's a new mindset which is coming into force.

00:51:26.000 And I celebrate the youth of our society today because they are refusing to be bound By the orders that are given to them by the powers that be.

00:51:37.000 There's a new spirit of thinking for ourselves and that new spirit is, in my view, going to change everything.

00:51:43.000 It seems like a dark time right now.

00:51:45.000 A lot of stuff is going on.

00:51:46.000 That's always the case when you're in the middle of a paradigm shift.

00:51:50.000 It seems like a dark time, but we're privileged to live at this time because two, three hundred years from now, this time is going to be looked back on as a turning point in the human story.

00:52:01.000 We might mention that, speaking of the torrid meteor shower, we are passing through the torrid meteor stream right now as we speak.

00:52:08.000 As we speak, yeah.

00:52:10.000 Late October to about the second week in November, up to about the 15th or 17th of November, Earth is passing through that stream.

00:52:17.000 And it probably is the most important meteor stream in terms of the history of recent life on this planet.

00:52:25.000 And this goes, you know, to people like Bill Napier and all of those guys who've...

00:52:30.000 Major astronomers are very aware of this.

00:52:33.000 And it's almost like something is trying to shut them down and stop the word getting out there.

00:52:39.000 Yes, NASA has a search for near-Earth asteroids, but weirdly they're not paying any attention to the taurid meteor stream.

00:52:46.000 We know that there's 200 objects in the Taurid Meteor Stream that are a kilometer or more in diameter.

00:52:52.000 Comet Enki, which is at the heart of the stream, is almost five kilometers in diameter.

00:52:59.000 These are all fragments of that original giant comet that began to disintegrate 12,800 years ago and that the Earth ran into.

00:53:08.000 So is this, what do you show me, Jeremy?

00:53:10.000 This is a video on Twitter of the Torrid Meteor stream.

00:53:13.000 It's a great time to see shooting stars.

00:53:14.000 Fireball pop up. 0.71

00:53:15.000 Bam.

00:53:16.000 There they go.

00:53:17.000 That's exactly what happens.

00:53:19.000 We're in that time period now.

00:53:22.000 And fortunately, most of those fireballs are caused by little objects.

00:53:28.000 Maybe the size of your fist.

00:53:30.000 Maybe just the size of a fingertip.

00:53:32.000 Maybe just a speck of dust burning up into the atmosphere.

00:53:35.000 But they are shrouding Very large objects that are on that same orbital trajectory which the Earth crosses twice a year.

00:53:44.000 And we should be paying attention to those large objects because we can actually do something about them.

00:53:49.000 And the evidence shows that they did something terrible to the Earth 12,800 years ago.

00:53:56.000 And they changed everything.

00:53:58.000 Changed everything.

00:54:00.000 And that is what this Netflix series is all about.

00:54:03.000 That's what Ancient Apocalypse is all about.

00:54:04.000 It's why it's called Ancient Apocalypse because that's what it ultimately comes down to.

00:54:08.000 Now, there's masses of material in the series about the possibility of a lost civilization and presenting the evidence for a lost civilization.

00:54:17.000 But ultimately, when you talk of a lost civilization, how did it become lost?

00:54:23.000 What happened that took it away, that obliterated it from human memory?

00:54:28.000 And this apocalyptic episode called The Younger Dryas is the answer to that.

00:54:34.000 The point I often make, which I think is worth making again and again, is how different the world was during the Ice Age.

00:54:41.000 The Sahara Desert was green.

00:54:44.000 It was a fertile place.

00:54:46.000 Nobody's doing much archaeology in the Sahara Desert today.

00:54:49.000 The Amazon rainforest, 5 million plus square kilometers under deep canopy.

00:54:54.000 Hardly any archaeology has been done there, and yet we know from LIDAR surveys that there are enormous structures Under that canopy.

00:55:02.000 And then what about sea level rise?

00:55:04.000 400 feet sea level rise at the end of the ice age.

00:55:07.000 The prime real estate on Earth, 27 million square kilometers, it's about 10 million square miles, were submerged by rising sea levels at the end of the ice age.

00:55:18.000 And again, archaeology, there is marine archaeology, but they're not really looking very closely at that.

00:55:23.000 I wonder, Jamie, would it be possible to pull up the diving clip?

00:55:27.000 Is this from Japan?

00:55:28.000 No, this one's actually from Bimini.

00:55:30.000 We have an episode on Bimini and on the very controversial structure called the Bimini Road.

00:55:36.000 Oh, right.

00:55:38.000 And this is just a little clip from that.

00:55:40.000 My suspicion is humans are a species with amnesia.

00:55:45.000 We have forgotten something incredibly important in our own past.

00:55:51.000 And I think that that incredibly important forgotten thing is a lost, advanced civilization of the Ice Age.

00:56:01.000 I've spent decades searching for proof of this lost civilization at sites around the globe.

00:56:08.000 Oh, wow.

00:56:10.000 Now, my aim is to piece together these clues.

00:56:14.000 And that seems extremely strange.

00:56:17.000 To show you evidence that challenges the traditional view of human history.

00:56:23.000 The Bimini Road is not even very deep.

00:56:28.000 It's only about 20 feet deep.

00:56:30.000 It was one of the last things to be covered by Ice Age sea level rise, and that's why we show a graphic, a reconstruction of it above water.

00:56:37.000 It's made of extremely regular blocks, megalithic blocks, on a very large scale, more than 1,000 feet in length.

00:56:46.000 And when you dive on it, and I've dived on it multiple times, and I went back to diving in order to dive on it again in this series, it's impossible to believe that it's entirely a work of nature.

00:56:58.000 And I took a marine biologist there with me who's dived all over the world, and he agreed with me that there's just no way that this thing can be explained as a totally natural phenomenon.

00:57:10.000 Can we see it, Jeremy?

00:57:13.000 And what is the conventional reasoning for this?

00:57:17.000 The conventional reasoning is that it's just beach rock fractured into natural patterns.

00:57:23.000 But when you get there and get underneath those rocks, you see that they're propped up, they're leveled out with rocks underneath them, that the whole thing is being very carefully structured by human beings.

00:57:35.000 And the point is, another point I'd like to make is Bimini today is a tiny, tiny island.

00:57:42.000 But Bimini during the Ice Age was part of an enormous island.

00:57:46.000 The whole Grand Bahama Bank was above water.

00:57:49.000 An enormous island.

00:57:50.000 And weirdly, that island turns up on an ancient map.

00:57:54.000 It turns up.

00:57:55.000 That's not the Bimini Road.

00:57:58.000 But that is on the left.

00:57:59.000 That's the Bimini Road.

00:58:00.000 You've got the cursor on there.

00:58:01.000 Yeah, those are shots of the Bimini Road.

00:58:03.000 Yeah, it's hard to believe that these uniform stones occurred naturally.

00:58:07.000 And how long is this?

00:58:09.000 About a thousand feet in length.

00:58:10.000 And it's not just a straight line.

00:58:12.000 It's got a J-shaped curve at one end of it as well.

00:58:16.000 And we know that it's been underwater for about six or seven thousand years, but the question is how long before that was it made?

00:58:24.000 How long did it stand there above water at a very prominent point on this ancient island that we now call the Grand Bahama Banks?

00:58:31.000 And one of the mysteries I look into is that On an ancient map, the famous Piri Reis map drawn by a Turkish admiral in 1513, that Grand Bahama banks as an above-water island is shown.

00:58:48.000 It is featured on the Piri Reis map.

00:58:51.000 And what do you see running down it but an image of the Bimini Road above water.

00:58:57.000 Now, how could Piri Reis, who drew his map in 1513, have known this?

00:59:02.000 He tells us the answer, that he based his map on more than 20 older source maps, all of which are now lost.

00:59:09.000 And he suggests that those maps had come out of the famous library of Alexandria and that they'd been taken to Constantinople and that's where he got access to them.

00:59:20.000 Somebody, I believe, was mapping the world, was exploring the Earth during the Ice Age, and left us ancient maps that show features that only existed during the Ice Age.

00:59:32.000 Oh, that's the Orontius Phineas.

00:59:34.000 No, no, this is Piri Reis.

00:59:35.000 Oh, that's Piri Reis.

00:59:37.000 It's on its side at the moment, but down there in the lower left, if you bring the cursor down, that big island down there in the lower left...

00:59:47.000 That island is exactly where the Grand Bahama Banks were, an above-water version of the Grand Bahama Banks during the Ice Age, and that feature running down the middle of it looks very like the Bimini Road to me.

00:59:58.000 Wow.

01:00:02.000 So again, it suggests not only do we have a cataclysmic event that changes the face of the earth, but also we have evidence that somebody, as yet unrecognized by archaeology, had the capacity to explore the world and to map the world during the last ice age.

01:00:19.000 One of the things I find most striking is the presence of Antarctica on ancient maps because we didn't discover it until 1820. And yet it's on maps drawn in the 1500s with great detail, which again were based on much older source maps that have now been lost to us.

01:00:38.000 The astonishing thing is the so-called Pinkerton world map.

01:00:42.000 I don't know if you can find it, Jamie.

01:00:44.000 Drawn, I think, in 1813 or 1818, based on the latest exploration data at that time.

01:00:51.000 And where Antarctica is, yeah, that one, keep going right, that one.

01:00:59.000 That one you've got up at the top there.

01:01:03.000 It just shows a hole where Antarctica is.

01:01:07.000 Because it was an honest map.

01:01:10.000 Nobody had found it by then.

01:01:11.000 But if you go back to, for example, the Walsey-Wuller world map drawn in 1530 or thereabouts, you find Antarctica is present.

01:01:19.000 If you can find Waldseemuller world map, it would be worth taking a look at.

01:01:24.000 Orontius Phineas.

01:01:25.000 Go for Orontius.

01:01:27.000 O-R-O-N-T-E-U-S. Phineas.

01:01:30.000 F-I-N-N-A-E-U-S. The Orontius Phineas map.

01:01:35.000 That map shows Antarctica exactly where it should be.

01:01:39.000 And it shows it, there we go, right-hand side, there's Antarctica at the tip of South America, just south of South Africa.

01:01:48.000 And what did they call it back then?

01:01:49.000 Well, they call it the southern land.

01:01:52.000 And it's larger than it is today, but it was larger than it is today during the Ice Age.

01:01:57.000 Antarctica was a much bigger...

01:01:59.000 Now, what the... 0.77

01:01:59.000 What the fuck is it doing on a map drawn in the 1500s which we know was based on older source maps when nobody knew it existed in the 1500s? 0.77

01:02:07.000 To me, the obvious answer is we are dealing with the fingerprints of a lost civilization that mapped the world and that left evidence of that mapping which ancient map makers found and used and incorporated into their maps. 0.96

01:02:20.000 These maps can be very confusing because they were trying to mix Exploration data from their own period with data from the older maps.

01:02:28.000 But when you look at these maps in depth, they're very, very intriguing.

01:02:31.000 When you go back to what you think are the origins of sophisticated civilization, how far back are we talking?

01:02:42.000 I think that we really...

01:02:44.000 You see the t-shirt I'm wearing?

01:02:45.000 Stuff just keeps getting older.

01:02:47.000 This is my motto.

01:02:49.000 My kids gave this to me for one of my birthdays. 1.00

01:02:52.000 It's partly an ironic comment on myself because fuck it, I'm getting older. 0.99

01:02:57.000 I'm 72 now. 0.98

01:02:59.000 It's partly an ironic comment on myself, but it's partly a comment on something else as well, is that as science progresses, we are finding evidence that the human species is much older than we thought.

01:03:10.000 Go back 25, 30 years, you'll find people telling you that anatomically modern humans didn't exist until 50,000 years ago.

01:03:17.000 Then they found evidence of anatomically modern humans 196,000 years ago.

01:03:23.000 Then in Morocco, they found evidence of anatomically modern humans 300,000 years ago.

01:03:29.000 Humans just like us, with the same brains, the same capacities, the same abilities than us, once you start extending that timeline back, You're leaving much more room for an advanced civilization to emerge, a civilization that was ultimately destroyed.

01:03:43.000 If you've just got 50,000 years to do it in, it doesn't leave you much space.

01:03:48.000 But if you've got 300,000 years to play with, there's plenty of space.

01:03:52.000 So bottom line, I think this was a civilization that flourished during the Ice Age, that occupied the prime real estate during the Ice Age along coastlines, and that was obliterated almost completely in the cataclysm of the Younger Dryas.

01:04:05.000 There were survivors.

01:04:06.000 Those survivors left their fingerprints in places like Gobekli Tepe.

01:04:10.000 After the younger Dryas was over, they then sought to initiate hunter-gatherers into their system of knowledge.

01:04:19.000 So when you're talking about the Nile and when you're talking about ancient Egypt, how far back do you think that goes?

01:04:27.000 I think the Nile goes back a very, very, very long way.

01:04:30.000 The Nile river system 12,500 years ago looked much the same as it does today.

01:04:36.000 Actually, Africa suffered much less from sea level rise than many other continents.

01:04:41.000 The place that was most dramatically affected by sea level rise was It was around Indonesia and Malaysia.

01:04:49.000 Geologists call it the Sunda Shelf.

01:04:51.000 And again, it shows up on ancient maps as it looked during the Ice Age, not as it looks today.

01:04:57.000 There was a continent-sized landmass that went underwater there.

01:05:01.000 If your continental shelves are very shallow and very limited and very deep, then you don't lose a lot of land.

01:05:08.000 But if they're slow and gradual, you lose a great deal of land.

01:05:11.000 Africa didn't suffer so much.

01:05:13.000 The Nile River system was pretty much 12,500 years ago the way that it is today.

01:05:17.000 The big difference was that the Sahara Desert was green and fertile.

01:05:23.000 And this coincides with Dr. Robert Shock's assertion that when you look at the Temple of the Sphinx, you're dealing with thousands of years of water erosion.

01:05:34.000 And the last time there was water like that in the Nile Valley was when?

01:05:40.000 The last time you had the water erosion like that in the Nau Valley was precisely during the Younger Dryas.

01:05:45.000 The Younger Dryas was a period of extremely heavy rains in Africa.

01:05:49.000 And it's rainfall, it's erosion caused by heavy rains that is the enigma on the Great Sphinx.

01:05:55.000 We're not saying that there was a flood came over the Great Sphinx.

01:05:59.000 What Robert Schock is saying and what his evidence clearly demonstrates is that we're looking at what's called precipitation-induced weathering.

01:06:06.000 Weathering that was caused by exposure to about a thousand years of extremely heavy rainfall.

01:06:12.000 And Dr. Robert Schock puts that thousand years precisely in the Younger Dryas period.

01:06:17.000 That's the last time that rains of that magnitude fell on Egypt.

01:06:21.000 And it's why we cannot...

01:06:23.000 Sensibly accept the insistence of Egyptologists that the Sphinx is just four and a half thousand years old.

01:06:30.000 By all means, yes, 2500 BC, the ancient Egyptians were there, but I believe they found the Sphinx already created and already heavily eroded and that they then re-carved its head into the head of a pharaoh.

01:06:44.000 And that head, as Robert Shock and others have pointed out, It's way too small in relation to the body.

01:06:50.000 That makes sense if it was a heavily eroded lion head which was then later cut down into the head of a pharaoh.

01:06:58.000 The geology speaks to the original Sphinx being more than 12,000 years old.

01:07:03.000 And that's the funny thing because when Robert Schock and let's not forget John Anthony West John Anthony West, and I know you had him on his show before he passed.

01:07:14.000 John Anthony West was the first person to suggest that there should be a huge question mark over the Sphinx, that the erosion patterns on the Sphinx suggest it was much older than Egyptologists said, and maybe 12,000 years old.

01:07:27.000 And at that time, the response of Egyptology was, Rubbish.

01:07:32.000 The Sphinx can't possibly be 12,000 years old because there's no other megalithic monument anywhere in the world that's anywhere like 12,000 years old.

01:07:39.000 Well, that got blown out of the water completely forever by the discovery of Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, which isn't even that far from Egypt.

01:07:48.000 Gobekli Tepe, 11,600 years old, a giant megalithic site.

01:07:52.000 My goodness, if you can make Gobekli Tepe, you can make the Sphinx. 0.99

01:07:55.000 It adds hugely to the credibility of Robert Schock's argument.

01:07:58.000 And I want to pay tribute to Robert Schock because there's a mainstream academic who's been willing to stick his neck out.

01:08:05.000 Despite taking all sorts of slings and arrows from his colleagues, he sticks with the data.

01:08:12.000 And what the data says, regardless of what Egyptologists say, is that the Sphinx is 12,000 plus years old.

01:08:19.000 And Jamie, can you pull up some of the images of that?

01:08:22.000 Because it is really compelling.

01:08:23.000 When you look at the water erosion evidence that is all around the Temple of the Sphinx, it's really fascinating stuff, even for someone who doesn't know much about erosion.

01:08:33.000 But when you look at it through his descriptions and his understanding of the various levels of stone, how some of it is harder, and this is the reason why some of it is eroded less.

01:08:45.000 You see it most clearly in the trench surrounding the Sphinx.

01:08:50.000 You see it there.

01:08:51.000 Those deep vertical fissures are classic precipitation-induced weathering, classic weathering produced by rainfall pouring over the edge of that.

01:09:01.000 You don't see it so much on the body of the Sphinx for a very specific reason, that the body of the Sphinx has been repeatedly restored.

01:09:08.000 Some of those blocks that we're looking at there were actually put in place during the Old Kingdom, when the Sphinx is supposed to have been made from new.

01:09:16.000 What were they doing restoring the Sphinx 4,500 years ago if they'd just built it?

01:09:21.000 You know, logic needs to be applied to this whole process, and we need to free ourselves from the dogma of the academic mainstream.

01:09:28.000 So...

01:09:29.000 So if this water erosion began thousands and thousands of years ago, thousands and thousands of years earlier than conventional Egyptologists date this era, how old do you think that actual civilization was?

01:09:45.000 Like how far back?

01:09:46.000 I think it could go back 20,000 years before that.

01:09:49.000 I think it was around all that time.

01:09:52.000 And again, this is a point that I think needs to be made.

01:09:57.000 Archaeologists will tell you that the entire population of the Earth were hunter-gatherers during the Ice Age, say 20,000 years ago at the peak of the last Ice Age.

01:10:06.000 Everybody was hunter-gatherers according to archaeologists.

01:10:11.000 But we today live in a world where an advanced civilization, our own, if we dare call ourselves advanced, and in some ways I think we're not advanced at all, coexists with hunter-gatherers.

01:10:26.000 There are hunter-gatherers in the Amazon rainforest.

01:10:29.000 Some of them don't even know we exist.

01:10:32.000 They've been spotted from aerial surveys.

01:10:34.000 Hunter-gatherers in the Namibian desert.

01:10:38.000 The notion that different types of civilization can coexist on the same planet shouldn't be surprising to us because we do it.

01:10:45.000 And that's what I'm suggesting was the case back then.

01:10:48.000 But a civilization very different from our own.

01:10:51.000 They certainly had technology, enough technology to explore the earth, enough technology to map the earth.

01:10:57.000 Very advanced astronomy, knowledge of obscure astronomical phenomena such as the precession of the equinoxes, such as the obliquity of the ecliptic.

01:11:05.000 I won't go into details, but it's present in ancient knowledge.

01:11:10.000 There's an amazing book, which I may have mentioned to you before, Joe, a book called Hamlet's Mill.

01:11:17.000 And it was written by two professors of the history of science, Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Deschen back in the 60s.

01:11:24.000 And what that book is dynamite because it shows, going back into the oldest myths and traditions of the world, highly advanced astronomical knowledge.

01:11:34.000 Astronomical knowledge that should not have been possessed by hunter-gatherer civilizations.

01:11:38.000 Astronomical knowledge that could only have been accumulated through thousands of years of careful observation and recording of data.

01:11:45.000 That astronomical knowledge is present in the most ancient myths of mankind.

01:11:50.000 And in fact, it was that book Hamlet's Mill, just as much as my first experience in front of the Great Pyramid that led me to begin asking questions about the narrative of our past.

01:12:00.000 And I think it's healthy that we should have an alternative narrative.

01:12:03.000 And I can't understand why archaeology is so...

01:12:06.000 I have to say so afraid of alternative narratives because if they're not afraid, why do they react in this way as though we're some kind of existential threat?

01:12:16.000 Why do they block me from getting access to sites if they're not afraid?

01:12:20.000 If they're confident of their position, they should be able to maintain it against all opposition rather than trying to censor other points of view.

01:12:27.000 Now, the Great Pyramid of Giza is probably the most stunning of all these ancient structures.

01:12:33.000 And the stones are immense and some of them were cut from a quarry that's hundreds of miles away.

01:12:40.000 How do you think they did that?

01:12:42.000 Well, some of them, the granite in the Great Pyramid comes from more than 500 miles to the south.

01:12:47.000 If you look at the famous King's Chamber, its walls and its roof The ceiling of the king's chamber are all made with gigantic granite blocks.

01:12:58.000 Trevor Burrus, Ph.D.: Stunning detail.

01:12:58.000 Stunning detail.

01:13:00.000 Those blocks on the roof of the king's chamber weigh 70 tons each.

01:13:04.000 Now Egyptologists will tell you that, oh, they could move heavy blocks because they put them on wet sand and they push them along on wet sand.

01:13:11.000 Well, maybe if you're just at ground level, that will do.

01:13:14.000 But when you're 350 feet above the ground as you are in the King's Chamber, that won't do at all.

01:13:18.000 I don't know how they did it.

01:13:20.000 All I know is they did it.

01:13:21.000 I don't think anybody knows how they did it, how they lifted those stones, how they brought them up to that level.

01:13:26.000 I think we're looking again at a lost technology.

01:13:29.000 And it was this ancient apocalypse 12,800 years ago that wiped that from the human memory banks almost completely, not entirely completely because they were survivors, but Randall will tell you, sea level rise creates a powerful high energy zone.

01:13:48.000 Anything that was existing on those flooded coastlines has just been pounded to hell.

01:13:53.000 I mean, talk about it, Randall.

01:13:56.000 Well yeah, I mean it's going to be a lot more energetic than now.

01:14:00.000 I mean imagine your sea level rising at three or four times at least faster than we've seen rise in the last century.

01:14:07.000 And within there juxtaposed are these episodes of very rapid sea level rise.

01:14:12.000 So you're talking about a very energetic intertidal zone.

01:14:17.000 And anything that's there Short of large megalithic blocks is going to be utterly obliterated by the time the process is through.

01:14:28.000 And I think that this is one of the things that, you know, the archaeologists and the prehistorians, people are looking at that, have failed to take into account the severity of these events we're talking about.

01:14:40.000 Because the question always is, where are the artifacts?

01:14:42.000 Where's the pottery?

01:14:43.000 Where is the evidence that this civilization existed?

01:14:46.000 And I have two responses to that.

01:14:50.000 You don't realize the extent of the total remodeling of this planetary surface that took place.

01:14:58.000 Because, I mean, we could get into some of the stuff here.

01:15:00.000 I have tons of images where I think maybe we'll get a chance to pull up a couple of really awesome drone footage here before we're done.

01:15:07.000 But once you begin to wrap your head around this, you go, really?

01:15:11.000 You know, it's like imagine that you drop an atomic bomb on a city and it completely obliterates it.

01:15:18.000 And then a short while later you drop another one on the same place.

01:15:21.000 What's going to be left?

01:15:22.000 And then 10,000 years, 20,000 years goes by, what are you going to find?

01:15:28.000 What are you going to look for?

01:15:29.000 You know, it's going to be just rubble that gets reincorporated just into the geological stratum, and it's going to be very difficult to differentiate, for example, from what's called a conglomeratic rock, which is basically we have just a huge jumble of broken rock cemented together.

01:15:47.000 Now, within there, there could be all kinds of stuff that's not even recognized as being artificial, in the sense that humans had anything to do with it.

01:15:55.000 The other thing is, when we talk about these ancient technologies, if we're only looking for a mere reflection of ourselves, we could overlook it completely, because I think there's evidence that exists now.

01:16:09.000 I mean, some modern researchers whose work has been Buried or suppressed, I think we're getting very close to rediscovering some of the things that our ancient ancestors were up to.

01:16:23.000 And maybe this would be worth a whole show in itself.

01:16:27.000 We could dive into this, and I don't want to get into that today.

01:16:30.000 But what kind of technologies are you talking about?

01:16:35.000 Well, I just...

01:16:35.000 I shouldn't really get into that.

01:16:37.000 Get into it.

01:16:38.000 Get into it, Rattle.

01:16:39.000 We've got to get into it.

01:16:40.000 Okay, well...

01:16:41.000 We've opened the door, sir.

01:16:43.000 Okay.

01:16:44.000 Well...

01:16:45.000 Okay.

01:16:47.000 The passing of the HDMI cable.

01:16:49.000 The passing...

01:16:50.000 A sacred moment.

01:16:56.000 Well, there are people out there now who have been working on...

01:17:03.000 Trying to rediscover that.

01:17:05.000 And again, I don't want to digress too much into this now because I would really rather be able to give a whole treatment of it.

01:17:13.000 That might kind of derail us a little bit from this.

01:17:16.000 But there are people who have been working on these things for decades now, basically in secret.

01:17:23.000 In secret.

01:17:24.000 And I've had the privilege of talking to some of these people over the last six or seven years.

01:17:29.000 And right now, as we're speaking, there's a group of people who are basically going to open source a whole lot of stuff in the next three months, so it can never get suppressed again.

01:17:41.000 And that's why I'd like to come back and talk in more detail.

01:17:44.000 Well, I'd love to have you come back and talk about it, but we've got to talk about it a little bit now.

01:17:49.000 Okay.

01:17:52.000 There's a laboratory right now in the Maldives that's been building prototypes using these technological principles, which are based on implosion rather than explosion.

01:18:04.000 And the inspiration for this— And Tesla's ideas are part of it, I think you mentioned.

01:18:09.000 Tesla's ideas are very much a part of it.

01:18:12.000 Yes, Tesla's ideas are very much a part of it.

01:18:15.000 So is—I don't know if you ever—Victor Schauberger, who did the work with water and discovered Jamie, could you look up Victor?

01:18:26.000 Oh, I have the cable now, don't I? Take it back.

01:18:30.000 Let me find a video.

01:18:31.000 Let me pull something up here and...

01:18:37.000 I think the key thing is we're looking at technologies that are not the same as ours.

01:18:41.000 And that's partly why archaeologists can't see them because they're looking for us in the past and they're not open to the possibility that there are whole other kinds of technology that could be used.

01:18:51.000 I always go back to the ancient Egyptian traditions that speak of priests chanting as these huge blocks were lifted into the air.

01:18:59.000 Were they using some kind of sound Some kind of use of sound that was able to manipulate matter.

01:19:07.000 We know that sound can manipulate matter as a matter of fact but they're lifting these blocks again and again it appears in ancient Egyptian traditions.

01:19:14.000 The notion that we could lift huge blocks with sound seems absurd to archaeologists and yet it's there in the traditions of the Egyptologists and what Randall's talking about now I think that's what's important about what you're saying is that we have this very limited idea of technology based on what we've experienced.

01:19:42.000 Yeah.

01:19:44.000 Anatomically similar human beings that live for thousands and thousands of years.

01:19:49.000 Stuff just keeps on getting older.

01:19:50.000 If you think about the amount of progress that we've achieved as modern humans just in the last few hundred years, if you go back 400 years to now, it's a stunning amount of achievement.

01:20:02.000 Absolutely stunning.

01:20:03.000 And if you have a completely different path of technology, one that's not utilizing internal combustion engines and cranes and...

01:20:13.000 And the like that we experience today.

01:20:15.000 Leverage, mechanical advantage, everything that our tech is based around.

01:20:19.000 Something that's insanely advanced, tens of thousands of years of a different path.

01:20:25.000 And that may be what we're looking at.

01:20:27.000 And that may begin to explain these otherwise inexplicable monuments that have survived.

01:20:36.000 There we go.

01:20:38.000 This is the work of Nikola Tesla.

01:20:40.000 And he was, again, this is way too much for us to get in today.

01:20:44.000 That's why we need to devote a whole session to talking about this.

01:20:49.000 But this is, this was the inspiration.

01:20:53.000 You know, his work was suppressed.

01:20:55.000 A lot of his patents were taken, sealed up by the U.S. government for whatever reason.

01:21:02.000 I don't know.

01:21:03.000 But This is some of the stuff that's now being developed using his ideas plus some of the others.

01:21:12.000 This is the man I've been talking to for the last seven years.

01:21:16.000 Malcolm Bendall?

01:21:17.000 Yes.

01:21:18.000 And again, I don't want to get into it today, but here's an example of what they're doing.

01:21:23.000 This is a generator that has no moving parts.

01:21:25.000 It's all based on geometry.

01:21:28.000 Pure geometry.

01:21:29.000 And here's the basic idea, as I think I understand it at this point.

01:21:35.000 Resonance frequencies.

01:21:36.000 Everything vibrates.

01:21:38.000 If we had an electric razor, we plugged it in, turned it on, set it on this table, it's going to move around, isn't it?

01:21:46.000 You ever seen that?

01:21:47.000 That's the beginning of the concept, because it's vibrating.

01:21:51.000 Everything vibrates at a frequency, and if you know that frequency, You can control things.

01:21:57.000 And I think that's the basic idea of what we're looking at here.

01:22:00.000 And it's all based upon the ancient numbers.

01:22:04.000 And they're developing technologies right now, and they have been.

01:22:08.000 I was recently contacted and given the go-ahead that I could talk.

01:22:13.000 I've been sitting on this for seven years without talking about it because they asked me not to talk about it until they had their patents in place and their licensing.

01:22:21.000 That's all happened since last summer.

01:22:24.000 So we're now free to talk about it.

01:22:26.000 So that's what I'm saying.

01:22:27.000 I think it would be a good idea to get me back on here.

01:22:29.000 We can look at it.

01:22:30.000 I'm going to lay this on Graham so he can look at it, too, because I really want to get Graham's feedback on this.

01:22:36.000 I mean, would it be fair to say that there's an element of a rediscovery of a lost technology from the past?

01:22:40.000 I think it would be fair to say that, yes.

01:22:43.000 And so through somehow through this technology they're able to move stones or cut stones or all the above?

01:22:52.000 All the above.

01:22:53.000 And even transport them?

01:22:56.000 What is all this?

01:22:57.000 Well this is the model and this is diagramming all the frequencies of the elements and what their vibrational frequencies are and the numbers that measure those frequencies And they're all the numbers we get from looking at these ancient traditions that recur over and over and over again that I've been talking about in my sacred geometry classes for decades without knowing what the final result was going to be.

01:23:24.000 So this inventor who's working with this small group contacted me and this is what he told me.

01:23:31.000 He said, You built the foundation.

01:23:34.000 He said you laid the foundation with your work on ancient geometry, and I built a house on top of it.

01:23:42.000 That's what he said.

01:23:43.000 So for seven years he's been supplying me with all the information.

01:23:47.000 I have copies of all the patents.

01:23:48.000 I have videos of the testing of the prototypes.

01:23:52.000 And Mazda, the car manufacturer in Japan, is getting ready to do a $25 million testing of some of these prototypes that they believe they can retrofit internal combustion engines with.

01:24:05.000 And there's over a hundred, they've developed over a hundred patents on some of this stuff.

01:24:10.000 And it's amazing.

01:24:11.000 And what would be the fuel?

01:24:14.000 Well, plasmoids.

01:24:17.000 Plasmoids, as it says here, are donut or toroidal shaped clusters of net protons or net electrons that once captured and placed into a toroidal orbit are capable of absorbing, storing, and releasing enormous amounts of energy within their self-generated and structured electromagnetic containment field.

01:24:38.000 Plasmoids, in effect, function as an atomic battery that can be self-charging due to its ability to convert matter to available clean energy.

01:24:46.000 So it's a lot to get into and I think it would take us kind of off what we're here to talk about today.

01:24:52.000 But at least what's promising is that there is some at least research or understanding And it's actually quite mature at this point.

01:25:02.000 And in order to avoid the kinds of fate that befell Tesla and Reich, Robert Oppenheimer, Victor Schauberger, and so many others that were working in these fields, all kind of converging on this same insight.

01:25:18.000 It's been conducted in secret.

01:25:19.000 The laboratory that they've been developing this is in the Maldives so that it's been immune from government interference.

01:25:28.000 And now I think it's about ready to go to the next.

01:25:32.000 What is the motivation of the suppressing of this information?

01:25:36.000 I think in case of Tesla, wasn't it Military?

01:25:40.000 The fear of military applications?

01:25:42.000 I also think that, you know, there are huge corporations that have very large investments in a particular path of technology, which is ours.

01:25:49.000 And for somebody to come up with a whole new path of technology, it's very threatening to them.

01:25:55.000 And much better from their point of view to suppress it, or if they can't suppress it, to kind of buy it and hide it and keep things on the track that they're on now.

01:26:06.000 I would say that's the motive.

01:26:07.000 And maybe for people that are curious about this and maybe even skeptical, consider the massive change that nuclear power provided us, whereas before the 1940s this was unheard of, even the concept of it.

01:26:24.000 And all of a sudden now we have nuclear power, nuclear weapons, the most profound power known to man currently.

01:26:33.000 God help us.

01:26:34.000 It's a power for use by adults, but unfortunately, it's delinquent children who are leading our world right now. 1.00

01:26:42.000 The leaders of our planet, the politicians out there, they're just complete assholes. 0.99

01:26:48.000 I can't think of any of them who I feel any respect for whatsoever. 0.99

01:26:52.000 And it's they who are in charge of this frightening, terrifying technology.

01:26:58.000 We just aren't mature enough.

01:27:00.000 As a civilization to manage technology like that.

01:27:03.000 You have to get that level of maturity.

01:27:06.000 And I don't think it's a coincidence that these people are not psychedelically experienced.

01:27:13.000 Exactly.

01:27:14.000 I've said it on your show and I'll say it again.

01:27:17.000 If I could set the rules.

01:27:20.000 I would absolutely insist that nobody has the right to run for head of state or head of government unless they've had a dozen experiences with ayahuasca.

01:27:30.000 Hear, hear.

01:27:30.000 Let them have those experiences first.

01:27:32.000 Mushrooms will do the job just as well.

01:27:35.000 A dozen major doses of mushrooms will do the job just as well lead to that self-examination that we see so little of in our politicians today.

01:27:44.000 And I think many of them would actually decide, actually, I don't want to be a politician anymore.

01:27:48.000 Yeah.

01:27:48.000 And those who did carry on in that path would be gentler, kinder, and more open to extraordinary possibilities.

01:27:56.000 You know, we did have one president who—it's pretty—a lot of evidence that he did, in fact, take several acid trips.

01:28:03.000 You know who that was?

01:28:05.000 Who's that?

01:28:06.000 John Kennedy.

01:28:07.000 Really?

01:28:08.000 Oh, yeah.

01:28:09.000 You know, he was having multiple affairs in the White House, right?

01:28:12.000 I knew about that.

01:28:13.000 Okay, so one of his affairs was with a woman who was an associate of Timothy Leary.

01:28:19.000 So that's well established.

01:28:22.000 So there's basis to the rumor.

01:28:26.000 That's another reason why they killed him.

01:28:28.000 Could be.

01:28:28.000 Well, it could be that because of, you know, because he did really go through pretty much a change of attitude.

01:28:37.000 During that last year.

01:28:39.000 But you know what it comes down to is, you know, right now everything is going on in the world is basically about the control of energy and resources.

01:28:47.000 And if there was a way of technology or energy that could do an end run around this idea that we live in a Malthusian reality and we have to have this You know, fight to the end over who's gonna control the energy and who's gonna control the resources.

01:29:06.000 It would render our entire foreign policy, our military policy, all of that irrelevant.

01:29:12.000 And from what I've seen about, and my evolving opinion about the possibility of there being ancient technology, that if there was an ancient technology, it should be possible to recover it.

01:29:28.000 And what I've seen in the last half a decade or more has initially skeptical, but as I've learned more, you know, gone arduously through these patents and things, I've become convinced that, yeah, there is something here.

01:29:43.000 There's something here.

01:29:44.000 That there are people who have been working on these things, and they would like My role, as they've requested to me, is these guys are academic scientists, inventors.

01:29:56.000 One of them's a geophysicist.

01:29:58.000 A couple of people that I've met recently who are putting the money up into this are basically in the energy industry, who have seen the prototypes.

01:30:08.000 I had a meeting in September, or not September, about a month ago, October, early October, with four gentlemen that are putting the money into this, developing these prototypes.

01:30:21.000 One of them said to me, well, when I first heard this, I didn't believe this was possible.

01:30:26.000 But he says, I've seen the machines, I've seen the technology work, I'm now convinced.

01:30:34.000 So they've done their initial prototypes, and now they're going to do this major testing.

01:30:40.000 Mazda, automobile manufacturer in Japan, has come on board and said, you can use our laboratories.

01:30:46.000 And because, of course, what they're thinking is that they may be able to get an end run around all the other competition.

01:30:55.000 And one of the things, and when I come back, we can look into this.

01:30:59.000 I've got the videos of testing the prototypes, like taking one of the gentlemen that I met with his nephew or son-in-law, mechanical engineer.

01:31:10.000 Who took one of the devices and it took four hours.

01:31:13.000 They retrofitted an internal combustion engine because what this device does is it recycles all of the waste products.

01:31:23.000 Heat products, carbon dioxide, everything that's coming out of an internal combustion engine gets captured and recycled and converted back to energy.

01:31:32.000 The initial test showed that the internal combustion engine went from about a 30% efficiency to 80% efficiency.

01:31:41.000 And this is just the initial prototypes.

01:31:44.000 I can come on your show.

01:31:45.000 We can look at the videos.

01:31:47.000 I can show you all of it.

01:31:49.000 I'd love to.

01:31:50.000 So they're going to open source all of it within the next few months around the world.

01:31:56.000 So they're looking for venues to put this information out because, like Malcolm there, the inventor you saw, he says, you know, this is my legacy and I want the world to have this.

01:32:08.000 So if we can – please go ahead.

01:32:10.000 Well, I was going to say as you say, they've had to keep it secret up till now.

01:32:14.000 Precisely because of the nature of the world that we live in.

01:32:19.000 And I would say that we live in a system that is very controlling, that works through very clever means to control the way people think.

01:32:31.000 But that the younger generation is beginning to break free of that in exciting ways.

01:32:38.000 And I would say that archaeology Strangely enough, is a very important part of that system of control.

01:32:46.000 If archaeologists can convince us that we are the end product of a long, steady evolution, we're the apex and the pinnacle of human achievement, then it justifies everything else that goes on in the world right now.

01:33:01.000 Any chance of pulling up the enemy number one clip in a minute?

01:33:06.000 Please, we'll do that.

01:33:07.000 But do you think that they're doing this in cahoots?

01:33:10.000 Or do you think they're doing this to protect their own personal interests?

01:33:12.000 And it seems to align with these systems that are currently in place.

01:33:16.000 First and foremost, to protect their own personal interests.

01:33:19.000 And their own personal interests are to express history the same way that they have always.

01:33:25.000 Yeah.

01:33:26.000 I don't think that there are many archaeologists who are actually out there deliberately lying to the public.

01:33:31.000 I don't think that's happening at all.

01:33:32.000 They're just egotistical human beings.

01:33:34.000 They're just like everybody else.

01:33:35.000 You get invested in a particular line.

01:33:38.000 It becomes existentially important to you.

01:33:41.000 It's your identity.

01:33:42.000 It's your identity.

01:33:43.000 And your knowledge defines you.

01:33:45.000 Your knowledge defines you.

01:33:46.000 And if others challenge it, your first reaction is self-defense.

01:33:49.000 Yes.

01:33:50.000 You've got to defend yourself.

01:33:51.000 Against this intruder who is attacking you in one way or another.

01:33:57.000 So I don't think that it's a calculated conspiracy in that way.

01:34:02.000 But I do think that advantage is being taken of it by other powers, by the powers that be.

01:34:08.000 I mean, I don't want to get into the whole COVID and vaccine issue too much right now There's a lot I don't know about that.

01:34:16.000 But one thing I do know for sure is that the whole COVID and vaccine issue has been deliberately, carefully used by governments.

01:34:24.000 They've taken advantage of it to inculcate and encourage a habit of obedience in the population that we just kind of automatically say yes.

01:34:34.000 And that's part of the controlling powers in our society fighting back against this tendency to individuality.

01:34:42.000 And to thinking for ourselves.

01:34:43.000 And that's why I say we live in the middle of a paradigm shift where things are – we're in struggle right now.

01:34:49.000 And either one side or the other is going to win.

01:34:51.000 But I believe that the force of good is a real force and that the ability to think freely and think independently that the younger generation is showing is going to triumph in the long run.

01:35:01.000 And what is this enemy number one video?

01:35:04.000 Do we need to pass the sacred HDMI cable?

01:35:08.000 Well, again, it's just this...

01:35:11.000 I was initially really perplexed by the way archaeologists responded to me.

01:35:17.000 Why would they hate me so much?

01:35:19.000 Why would they be so angry with me?

01:35:21.000 Well, you're an outsider.

01:35:22.000 And yeah, I guess that's it, simply by proposing a different point of view.

01:35:27.000 So it's just another short clip from Ancient Apocalypse.

01:35:30.000 This idea is upsetting to the so-called experts, who insist that the only humans who existed during the Ice Age were simple hunter-gatherers.

01:35:41.000 That automatically makes me enemy number one to archaeologists.

01:35:46.000 Why don't you say, we don't know.

01:35:48.000 This is a spectacular mystery and leave it at that.

01:35:50.000 It's my job to offer an alternative point of view.

01:35:53.000 Perhaps there's been a forgotten episode in human history...

01:35:56.000 ...but perhaps the extremely defensive, arrogant and patronizing attitude...

01:36:00.000 ...of mainstream academia is stopping us from considering that possibility.

01:36:04.000 I'm trying to overthrow the paradigm of history.

01:36:11.000 Ooh! 0.96

01:36:14.000 Very dramatic.

01:36:15.000 I was lucky to work with a really top-class professional camera team in making this series.

01:36:22.000 And talking about COVID, my goodness.

01:36:24.000 I mean, to make an eight-episode TV series when the world was shut down, the number of quarantines we had to do in places like Indonesia in order to get this job done.

01:36:35.000 But we powered through and we got it done.

01:36:38.000 And I hope that the series is going to make a difference.

01:36:41.000 I'm just going to be part of that Providing an alternative source of information to people who are fed up with being told what to think by the so-called experts.

01:36:50.000 I'm certain it'll provide a lot of inspiration for people to think differently.

01:36:55.000 Now, the possibility of this technology existing that we're talking about, existing in the past, would this technology be made with metal?

01:37:07.000 Would these engines, these alternative technology engines, and if they were, we really wouldn't find evidence of them today?

01:37:16.000 I think we should be open-minded to a whole range of possibilities.

01:37:21.000 Exactly.

01:37:22.000 One of the issues that gets me into a lot of trouble with archaeologists is that I think there are latent human abilities which we are not using.

01:37:34.000 I don't know if you've ever had Rupert Sheldrake on your show.

01:37:37.000 So Rupert has done a lot of work on telepathy, real solid scientific work, just like why does your dog know when you're coming home?

01:37:46.000 He did a series of controlled experiments where the owner came home at random different times of day.

01:37:52.000 And the dog always knew when he was coming.

01:37:54.000 Some kind of telepathic message was passing back and forward.

01:37:57.000 Rupert Sheldrake has shown that telepathy is a real thing.

01:38:02.000 We're thinking there's somebody and the next second the phone rings and it's that person.

01:38:06.000 Things like that.

01:38:07.000 But Rupert has done very thoroughly detailed statistical work on this and shown that it's far beyond chance.

01:38:14.000 That this is a real ability that humans have, but that we're persuaded in our society to think does not exist.

01:38:20.000 What about telekinesis, the ability to move objects with the mind?

01:38:24.000 That sounds like Stephen King territory, but maybe we can do it.

01:38:28.000 Again, our society has rested all its faith on leverage and mechanical advantage and a particular path of technology, and we've allowed what I think may be latent human abilities to fall into The abyss and not to be used anymore,

01:38:44.000 so much so that we laugh at ourselves for even thinking of them.

01:38:47.000 And whenever I mention things like telepathy or telekinesis, I'm not pinning my whole thesis on that.

01:38:52.000 I just think it's something we should be open to.

01:38:54.000 Well, if an ancient civilization were using those innate human abilities that we've forgotten how to use today, there would, of course, be no physical evidence for it whatsoever.

01:39:05.000 There'd only be the results of what they did, like those 70-ton blocks lifted 350 feet in the air Covering the roof of the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid.

01:39:15.000 Impossible to explain in terms of leverage and mechanical advantage, but perhaps another explanation is needed.

01:39:21.000 Also so profoundly advanced in terms of their ability to move immensely huge objects that it makes you consider in a way where we're talking about...

01:39:34.000 Look, even if we use the conventional dating of 2500 BC, how?

01:39:40.000 How?

01:39:41.000 What was available?

01:39:43.000 How did they do that?

01:39:45.000 I've never seen a satisfactory explanation from the Egyptological fraternity as to how this was done.

01:39:51.000 They keep coming up with multiple theories about how the Great Pyramid was built and none of them make any sense to me.

01:39:57.000 I've been lucky enough to climb the Great Pyramid five times.

01:40:00.000 I've explored every internal passageway.

01:40:02.000 This thing is just a gigantic mystery in stone.

01:40:06.000 It challenges us.

01:40:08.000 To think again about everything in the ancient world.

01:40:11.000 The fact that it incorporates the dimensions of our planet in its key dimensions.

01:40:16.000 That you can take the height of the Great Pyramid and multiply by 43,200 and you get the polar radius of the Earth.

01:40:23.000 Measure the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid, multiply it by the same number, you get the equatorial circumference of the Earth.

01:40:28.000 I won't bore you, but that number is not a random number.

01:40:31.000 Anybody who goes into my books will find that it relates to the obscure astronomical phenomenon called precession of the equinoxes.

01:40:38.000 The Great Pyramid is almost perfectly aligned to true north within three sixtieths of a single degree.

01:40:46.000 13-acre footprint, 6 million tons, 481 feet high, and aligned to true north with this incredible precision.

01:40:55.000 I think they're trying to tell us something.

01:40:59.000 The pyramid speaks to our planet.

01:41:01.000 It speaks to this earth.

01:41:02.000 It's aligned to true north.

01:41:04.000 And it's built on a scale that models the dimensions of the earth and that scale is derived from a key motion of the earth itself.

01:41:11.000 Very, very clever.

01:41:12.000 And again, I try and mention this to archaeologists.

01:41:15.000 They say, ah, it's just a coincidence. 0.99

01:41:16.000 It's just rubbish, you know. 0.99

01:41:19.000 That's what they say. 0.98

01:41:20.000 And it's such a lazy way to dismiss the data rather than getting to grips with the data and saying, could this really have happened by coincidence or is something going on here?

01:41:30.000 See, there are these key numbers that recur over and over again.

01:41:34.000 We find them in the Vedas.

01:41:36.000 We find them in the Bible.

01:41:37.000 We find them in Mayan traditions.

01:41:39.000 They were in Samaria.

01:41:41.000 Over and over again.

01:41:42.000 And one of those key numbers, what Bert Graham just said, 43,200.

01:41:47.000 Or, you know, and even in the way we still measure time today, if you think about how do we measure the length of one rotation of the Earth on its axis, the meridian lining up with the center of the Sun,

01:42:03.000 we've divided that into seconds, right?

01:42:05.000 Minutes, hours.

01:42:07.000 24 hours is the exact period of the Earth's rotation with respect to the Sun, okay?

01:42:15.000 24 hours times 60 times 60 means there's 86,400 seconds exactly in that period.

01:42:24.000 On the moment of vernal equinox, the period of time of darkness and of light are exactly equal, 43,200.

01:42:36.000 That number is the scaling ratio of the pyramid.

01:42:40.000 If we were to take the pyramid as it is today on the Giza Plateau, enlarge it by a factor of 43,200, as Graham said, the height of it is literally within a few hundred feet of being the polar radius of the Earth.

01:42:54.000 And in fact, the range of error is within the range of error of our most accurate modern satellite surveys.

01:43:04.000 And when I come back, I could easily demonstrate that.

01:43:08.000 We'll do that.

01:43:08.000 I put together the slides to show exactly how it's done.

01:43:13.000 The geometry of the height, the ratio of the height to the square base, solves the ancient geometric problem of the squaring of the circle.

01:43:22.000 Because what they've basically done is that if you enlarge that pyramid by 43,200, The square base now becomes precisely the equatorial circumference of the Earth.

01:43:35.000 Precisely!

01:43:36.000 And for somebody to say, this is just coincidence, well, if it was one example, or two examples, no, there's dozens of examples like this where you could show that somehow somebody seemed to know something beyond what they've been given credit for.

01:43:53.000 Something that they shouldn't have known at the time that that structure is supposed to have been built.

01:43:58.000 What we're looking at in the Great Pyramid and many other structures around the world staring us in the face, almost slapping us in the face, is evidence of a lost technology.

01:44:07.000 And yet it's so resisted and so sneered upon By mainstream academia.

01:44:13.000 This is one of the things I really find very uncomfortable about archaeology is the way that they sneer at alternative ideas.

01:44:19.000 You know, the fact that I've taken psychedelics?

01:44:21.000 That is used against me all the time by my critics.

01:44:24.000 Oh, you know, Hancock takes drugs, so you shouldn't listen to anything that he says.

01:44:29.000 That's what I tell my kids.

01:44:31.000 LAUGHTER Excuse me.

01:44:36.000 What a lazy way to dismiss an alternative argument, just with insults. 0.98

01:44:41.000 Yeah, it's silly.

01:44:42.000 It's also, it's like, what has he gotten out of those drugs, and why are you so dismissive of that?

01:44:48.000 I'm so fascinated by the possibility of this ancient technology existing and what form it existed in.

01:44:57.000 If they really did have the ability to calculate as you're describing and they did it with such incredible accuracy and the way you're laying it out, it's almost undeniable.

01:45:08.000 The possibility of coincidence is far less than the possibility of calculation.

01:45:14.000 Yeah.

01:45:16.000 Absolutely.

01:45:17.000 And yet this lazy dismissal is used to keep people locked in a particular framework of thinking.

01:45:23.000 And that's what we're trying to disrupt.

01:45:25.000 We're disruptors.

01:45:26.000 We're contrarians.

01:45:28.000 And I think there's a need for disruptors and contrarians in the world.

01:45:31.000 No matter how much they insult me, no matter how much they insult Randall, the information that we're putting out there sooner or later is going to do some good.

01:45:40.000 How far back do you think this technology goes?

01:45:43.000 I keep pressing this because I want to get an understanding of what's the long end of this.

01:45:48.000 How far back do you think human sophisticated civilization existed?

01:45:56.000 If the conventional idea is ancient Sumer, 6000, Mesopotamia, 6000 plus years ago, how far do you think we're talking about?

01:46:05.000 Well, first and foremost, I can't give you absolute facts here.

01:46:10.000 I'm working on my ideas about the past.

01:46:14.000 I think it's a civilization that went back deep into the last ice age, maybe as far back as 100,000 years into the past.

01:46:21.000 I think it's a civilization that emerged out of hunter-gatherer societies and emerged out of shamanism.

01:46:28.000 You encounter shamans in the Amazon rainforest today who are using ayahuasca.

01:46:33.000 Well, ayahuasca is a miracle in itself.

01:46:36.000 There's, what is it, 100,000 plus different species of plants and trees in the Amazon.

01:46:41.000 You have to put two of them together to create the ayahuasca brew.

01:46:46.000 One of them contains DMT and the other contains a monoamine oxidase inhibitor.

01:46:51.000 DMT is not orally active.

01:46:54.000 That's why we have to smoke it in order to get the effect.

01:46:57.000 But what they've done in the Amazon is make it orally active.

01:47:01.000 By combining it with the ayahuasca vine, which contains the monoamine oxidase inhibitor that switches off an enzyme in the stomach that allows the gut to absorb the DMT and for it to enter the brain.

01:47:13.000 Now that is science that we're looking at there.

01:47:16.000 We're looking at evidence of science.

01:47:20.000 Science emerging from a shamanistic society makes perfect sense to me.

01:47:25.000 And again, this is where the archaeologists roll their eyes.

01:47:28.000 But when you ask those shamans in the Amazon, where did your ancestors get the knowledge to make ayahuasca come from?

01:47:34.000 I mean, surely it can't have been done by trial and error.

01:47:37.000 When you've got 100,000 different species of plants and trees, you're taking two, neither of which is active on its own, which only work when they're combined together.

01:47:46.000 How did you arrive at that?

01:47:48.000 And they say, The spirits taught us.

01:47:51.000 How did the spirits teach you?

01:47:52.000 Oh, our ancestors used to use Yopo.

01:47:55.000 They took a snuff.

01:47:56.000 That's a DMT snuff.

01:47:57.000 And in the Yopo trance, they were taught how to make ayahuasca.

01:48:02.000 So the idea, ludicrous as it may seem to archaeologists, that shamanistic societies can create science seems to make perfect sense to me.

01:48:12.000 And I think the lost civilization I'm talking about emerged out of shamanism.

01:48:17.000 But it then went further steps ahead than other hunter-gatherer societies.

01:48:23.000 And unlike our civilization today, which is in the process of destroying the last hunter-gatherer civilizations on Earth, some members of our civilization – I'm very glad the way the election just went in Brazil because we need to preserve the Amazon rainforest.

01:48:38.000 It's madness to cut down the Amazon rainforest and turn it into soya bean farms. 1.00

01:48:45.000 Our civilization today has no respect for nature, no respect for hunter-gatherers who are people with an enormous store of knowledge of how to survive on this planet.

01:48:55.000 I think that the ancient civilization I'm talking about had great respect for its roots, for its origins in hunter-gatherer civilizations and that's why I don't think they contaminated them too much.

01:49:06.000 They stayed away from them and pursued their own path once they'd achieved these levels of technology.

01:49:13.000 You often talk about the use of LIDAR and ground-penetrating radar and how they've uncovered these structures.

01:49:21.000 It's astonishing.

01:49:22.000 The ancient Amazon rainforest was filled with massive civilizations.

01:49:28.000 Yes, absolutely no doubt about it now.

01:49:30.000 Is it possible that these massive civilizations were also advanced and through the use of pharmacology, the same way we understand how to synthesize Yes,

01:49:45.000 it's perfectly possible that there is science in the hunter-gatherer mode of life and that they applied that science.

01:49:56.000 The Amazon is not entirely a natural product.

01:49:59.000 The Amazon is a human-made garden. 0.95

01:50:02.000 The trees in the Amazon that produce food are hyper-dominant.

01:50:06.000 That didn't happen by accident.

01:50:07.000 That happened because human beings made that happen.

01:50:11.000 They created this incredible – we still don't understand it fully today – the terra preta, the black earth.

01:50:19.000 We're good to go.

01:50:43.000 It used to be 7 million square kilometers. 1.00

01:50:46.000 About 2 million square kilometers have been cut down by our rapacious, short-sighted, idiotic civilization. 0.99

01:50:53.000 But 5 million square kilometers are left and we're just beginning to get a hint of what's underneath them. 0.97

01:50:59.000 As a result of LIDAR, this technique like light imaging and detection ranging, which flies, you can fly a plane over a section of rainforest and without damaging anything, you can see what's underneath that rainforest.

01:51:12.000 And what's underneath it is gigantic geometrical structures, huge squares, circles, a circle surrounded by a square.

01:51:20.000 Just...

01:51:23.000 We're good to go.

01:51:37.000 Meet a few billionaires.

01:51:39.000 And I've tried to say to them, if you want to do some good with your money, put it into a major LIDAR survey of the Amazon.

01:51:45.000 Because right now, only a tiny section of the state of Acre in Brazil has been surveyed by LIDAR. And what's come out of there, they're even finding pyramids in the middle of the Amazon.

01:51:55.000 And then once they're found, archaeologists can go to them and have a look at them.

01:51:59.000 Put some money into a proper LiDAR survey of the entire Amazon and our whole idea of the past of the human species may change.

01:52:07.000 And that comes back to my point.

01:52:09.000 5 million square kilometers in the Amazon, hardly studied.

01:52:12.000 27 million square kilometers of submerged continental shelves, hardly studied.

01:52:18.000 9 million square kilometers of the Sahara Desert, hardly studied.

01:52:22.000 And yet archaeology claims to know the whole story of our past. 0.97

01:52:26.000 Ridiculous.

01:52:26.000 They can't know the whole story of the past while so little of the planet remains, so much of the planet remains untouched by archaeology.

01:52:33.000 And why does it remain untouched?

01:52:35.000 Well, partly it's very expensive to go do archaeology in the Sahara or in the Amazon, and partly because archaeologists are convinced that they're not going to find anything there.

01:52:45.000 Well, LiDAR is breaking that myth.

01:52:48.000 It's showing us that there is something to find in the Amazon.

01:52:52.000 And I would urge any good-hearted billionaire who wants to see some real changes in our understanding of the past to put some money into LIDAR surveys.

01:53:00.000 I know a number of the archaeologists who are doing this, a guy called Marty Partinson, for example.

01:53:05.000 Very, very, very important work, but they're doing it on tiny funds.

01:53:09.000 They need more funding in order to...

01:53:12.000 Survey the whole Amazon and I think if the whole Amazon is surveyed it's going to radically change the way we view our past.

01:53:18.000 One of the problems is that both in archaeology and geology is the focus on a very limited specialized site.

01:53:28.000 You will have archaeologists that will spend a decade excavating one site and obviously they're going to know more about that site than anybody far and away.

01:53:40.000 What seems to be lacking, and the same with geologists, you know, you'll have geologists who will spend years examining one site, one geological outcrop, determining the lithologies, the petrology, the sedimentary sequence,

01:53:56.000 the ages, and they can tell you all about that site.

01:53:59.000 What's missing, though, is the big picture.

01:54:02.000 Integrating these different parts and these sites, and really this is where There's room for those who are not super specialized to come in and try to come up with some kind of a coherent model that can link these sites together into a big picture.

01:54:21.000 The panorama, the grander panorama.

01:54:24.000 I'm thinking of Al Goodyear.

01:54:28.000 Down at Topper.

01:54:30.000 Yeah, tell a little bit about Al.

01:54:32.000 Well, Al is an archaeologist, and for a long time there was a dogma in archaeology, a true dogma.

01:54:41.000 That there were no human beings in the Americas until 13,000 years ago.

01:54:46.000 Let's say 13,400 years ago.

01:54:49.000 And they call them the Clovis culture.

01:54:51.000 And the dogma was called Clovis first.

01:54:55.000 That there were just no human beings here before Clovis.

01:54:58.000 And Arles was excavating a site called Topper, looking for Clovis materials.

01:55:04.000 But then he did what other archaeologists didn't do.

01:55:07.000 They dug below the Clovis lair.

01:55:09.000 And below the Clovis...

01:55:11.000 People kept asking him, well, what's below it?

01:55:13.000 What's below it?

01:55:14.000 Yeah.

01:55:14.000 And when he dug below it, he found evidence, more evidence of humans, going back tens of thousands of years before Clovis, going back 50,000 years.

01:55:23.000 Like so many archaeologists who've broken the mold and found evidence that confronted the dogma, he was shunned by his colleague.

01:55:31.000 What was this evidence that he discovered?

01:55:33.000 Evidence of human presence in the Americas.

01:55:36.000 Artifacts.

01:55:36.000 Artifacts, objects 50,000 years ago.

01:55:38.000 I'm not saying artifacts of a high civilization.

01:55:40.000 I'm just saying evidence that humans were here.

01:55:43.000 This dogma that there were no humans in the Americas until 13,000 years ago, that dogma locked the archaeology of the Americas in a single place.

01:55:56.000 For 40 or 50 years, and every single archaeologist, Jack Sank-Mars at Bluefish Caves in the Yukon, for example, who found evidence of humans 24,000 years ago, every one of them suffered.

01:56:07.000 Their research grants were pulled away from them.

01:56:09.000 They were shunned at conferences.

01:56:11.000 They were insulted by their colleagues.

01:56:13.000 But as time passed, they were proved to be right. 0.99

01:56:17.000 And this is the important issue.

01:56:20.000 When I was researching America before, I went down to San Diego and talked with the team there who excavated the Cerruti Mastodon site.

01:56:29.000 They think human beings have been in the Americas for 130,000 years.

01:56:34.000 Not 13,000, but 130,000 years.

01:56:37.000 That gives you a lot of time for things to develop here in the Americas.

01:56:41.000 Down in South America, there's a genetic connection Between certain tribes in the Amazon and the peoples of Melanesia, of Papua New Guinea.

01:56:51.000 And that connection is not found anywhere in North America.

01:56:57.000 So the old notion, again, it's a dogma that human beings crossed the Bering Straits when they were a land bridge.

01:57:03.000 In the North and they traveled down through North America into South America.

01:57:06.000 It may be that the completely opposite is true, that people were crossing the oceans tens of thousands of years ago, settling first in South America and then migrating North.

01:57:16.000 And it's just very difficult for these ideas to become accepted.

01:57:20.000 But little by little, this is what happens with paradigm shifts.

01:57:23.000 As the new evidence keeps coming in, it becomes more and more absurd to stick to the old idea.

01:57:29.000 Now, if you have human beings in the Americas for 130,000 years, then you have a possibility for an advanced civilization to have emerged right here in the Americas, in North America, in South America.

01:57:43.000 And if that advanced civilization had based itself in the land that we now call the channeled scaplands, There wouldn't be a single thing left of it because of the pummeling massive forces of flooding that tore across that landscape during the younger dryers.

01:57:59.000 Now, the prevailing theory of what happened to the civilization in the Amazon rainforest is disease, right?

01:58:05.000 And that prevailing theory is correct.

01:58:08.000 There was a Spaniard, Francisco de Oriana, who accidentally managed to travel the entire way across the Amazon, across South America in the 1560s.

01:58:22.000 I say accidentally because he was with 20 other guys.

01:58:25.000 They were in a boat and they were going hunting.

01:58:27.000 But they put the boat on the Amazon River and the Amazon River wouldn't let them come back.

01:58:33.000 It carried them, kept on carrying them west and west and west.

01:58:37.000 And finally they ended up, they started off in Colombia and finally they ended up...

01:58:42.000 On the Atlantic coast of South America.

01:58:44.000 Well, on the way through, they observed enormous cities.

01:58:48.000 They observed evidence of high civilizations of the Amazon.

01:58:51.000 He reported it, but he was disbelieved.

01:58:54.000 It was thought that he was making it up, and it's these new LIDAR surveys that have confirmed that he was absolutely correct.

01:59:01.000 And God knows what else might be found in the Amazon if the work were actually done.

01:59:06.000 So those initial explorers carried diseases?

01:59:10.000 They carried diseases.

01:59:11.000 This is the thing.

01:59:12.000 Orellana encountered thriving, highly populated areas.

01:59:17.000 A hundred years later, all gone.

01:59:20.000 Completely gone.

01:59:22.000 Not because of muskets and swords, but because of smallpox.

01:59:26.000 Primarily because of smallpox and other diseases that were imported from Europe that the indigenous inhabitants did not have resistance to.

01:59:33.000 Just completely decimated those civilizations.

01:59:36.000 Almost wiped them completely from human memory.

01:59:40.000 There's no doubt that that biological weapon is the reason for the conquest of the Americas, that it was the diseases that were brought in. 0.82

01:59:49.000 And in some cases, those diseases were deliberately spread, but in other cases, it was just an accident of contact.

01:59:55.000 And that's the exact same thing that happened in North America.

02:00:12.000 That we're seeing in the story of the Americas.

02:00:14.000 And so much was wiped out.

02:00:16.000 So much memory was wiped out.

02:00:18.000 And then not just the killing off of the people with the diseases that Europeans brought, but the church, the way that the church behaved in the Americas was appalling. 0.61

02:00:28.000 The deliberate burning of Mayan codices. 1.00

02:00:32.000 In one bonfire, 5,000 Mayan books were heaped up and burnt by some idiot priest. 1.00

02:00:39.000 What's he doing there but wiping out the memory banks of humanity? 0.99

02:00:42.000 What would we have found in those manuscripts if we'd been able to find them today if they hadn't been burnt by some religious fanatic who was convinced that his ideas were the only right ideas and everybody else was wrong?

02:00:55.000 Christianity is responsible for a great deal of harm in this world and it's time Christians sucked it up and got to grips with that instead of regarding themselves as a paragon of virtue because Christianity has done horrific things down through the ages. 0.97

02:01:11.000 Hopefully it's learned from its experiences. 0.98

02:01:14.000 Hopefully.

02:01:19.000 That doesn't seem very likely.

02:01:21.000 But it's been an instrument of destruction of human memory.

02:01:26.000 Those who were destroying that human memory no doubt they fervently believed that they were right.

02:01:31.000 But their belief that they were right doesn't mean they were right.

02:01:35.000 They were wrong.

02:01:36.000 They've deprived us of huge libraries of knowledge which would otherwise be available to us.

02:01:42.000 That's why I call us a species with amnesia, that we have forgotten so much about our own past.

02:01:49.000 And we're in that kind of amnesiac state where we just have a feeling that something's wrong, but we don't quite know what it is.

02:01:57.000 It's one of the more fascinating aspects of being a person today is that we have so much access to information and that we can find out about these things now that, you know, if you tried to bring these ideas forth in the 1970s, they'd be easily dismissed.

02:02:13.000 But now, because of LIDAR, because of our understanding of what disease did to North America and what the Christians did, it's a far more compelling conversation. 0.99

02:02:23.000 Yeah.

02:02:24.000 And the internet.

02:02:25.000 Yes.

02:02:25.000 Well, I regard the internet as a poisoned chalice.

02:02:29.000 There are wonderful gifts in the internet, but there's also terrible problems with the internet.

02:02:35.000 But the one thing the internet has done is it's allowed people to communicate directly with one another.

02:02:40.000 We don't have to go through the middleman.

02:02:43.000 The big newspaper proprietor or the big TV station.

02:02:47.000 We don't have to go through the middleman in order to get to people.

02:02:50.000 We can talk to one another directly and share ideas hopefully in a fertile way.

02:02:54.000 It's sad that so much of the internet is just filled with hatred and fear and suspicion and people being utterly obnoxious to one another.

02:03:01.000 But nevertheless, I'd rather have it than not have it because it's opened up so many doors of inquiry that would otherwise remain closed.

02:03:09.000 I like to think, you know, when I was born, mid-20th century, we had zero presence in space.

02:03:15.000 No satellites.

02:03:16.000 We'd never put up a single satellite, right?

02:03:19.000 We're in a position now where we can really begin to perceive things on levels that a few generations ago were inconceivable, both on the microscopic and certainly we know how important the microscopic realm has been.

02:03:32.000 My god, yes.

02:03:33.000 You know, when we start talking about nanodiamonds and microspherals and all of this and being able to demonstrate that these great catastrophes have happened.

02:03:42.000 I kind of use the analogy of fingerprints, which Which I borrowed from Graham.

02:03:47.000 But fingerprints, you know, on a crime scene, you don't really see those without technological enhancement.

02:03:53.000 Footprints, on the other hand, you can see them.

02:03:55.000 They're obvious.

02:03:56.000 They're, you know, footprints in the ground.

02:03:59.000 So I kind of look at the channel scab lands.

02:04:01.000 Those are obvious footprints on the global landscape that are unambiguous, right?

02:04:07.000 Then on the other hand, the microspherals, the nanodiamonds, and the things like that, Those are the things that you can't see without the technological enhancement, without scanning electron microscopy or energy dispersive...

02:04:21.000 Can I just butt in there to elaborate on the nanodiamonds?

02:04:25.000 This is one of the reasons we know that there was a series of airbursts and bits of a comet that hit the Earth 12,800 years ago, because all around the world There is a layer in the soil.

02:04:39.000 You can go down to Murray Springs in Arizona.

02:04:41.000 There's a draw that was cut by floods there.

02:04:45.000 And along the side of the draw, you can see a line in the earth about the width of a human hand.

02:04:51.000 And that is the Younger Dryas boundary.

02:04:53.000 And it's full of what are called impact proxies, things that could only be created by the massive heat and shock Of an impact of an object from space.

02:05:04.000 And those include nanodiamonds, these tiny diamonds which we would not see without high-level tech allowing us to see down into the minuscule world.

02:05:15.000 That's it.

02:05:16.000 That's Murray Springs.

02:05:17.000 That's the Younger Dryas boundary layer at Murray Springs.

02:05:19.000 Which one's the layer?

02:05:21.000 The dark layer.

02:05:22.000 There's better shots of it, but it's that dark layer.

02:05:24.000 It runs all along the side of the springs.

02:05:26.000 And for the series, we went there with Alan West from the Comet Research Group, and he explained to us exactly what's going on here.

02:05:34.000 And that's the first clues that led them to believe that we're dealing with a comet impact 12,800 years ago.

02:05:41.000 And I don't want to misuse that word.

02:05:42.000 It's not a single object.

02:05:43.000 It's multiple objects.

02:05:44.000 It's a swarm of objects.

02:05:48.000 We're good to go.

02:06:18.000 Interestingly enough, that date, June 1908, is one of the two periods in the year, June and November, when the Earth passes through the torrid meteor stream.

02:06:28.000 And what happened there was that an object that's estimated to have been about 100 meters in diameter...

02:06:36.000 It blew up in the air over Siberia.

02:06:40.000 It flattened 2,000 square miles of trees.

02:06:44.000 It was an uninhabited area.

02:06:46.000 Nobody was killed.

02:06:47.000 But if that had happened over a major city, it would have been cataclysmic.

02:06:52.000 And that was just a small bit.

02:06:54.000 And it left the same traces in the soil, the same nanodiamonds, the same evidence of...

02:07:00.000 Another really intriguing thing is melted quartz.

02:07:04.000 It takes temperatures of 2000 plus degrees centigrade to melt quartz.

02:07:10.000 And you find melted quartz all over this Younger Dryas boundary layer.

02:07:15.000 You find iridium, another substance that can only come in with asteroids and comets from outer space.

02:07:25.000 So the evidence is mounting.

02:07:26.000 The evidence is building.

02:07:28.000 And the team of scientists at the Comet Research Group, as I mentioned earlier, They've just now got some major funding.

02:07:35.000 We are going – and again, I talked about that happy billionaire who I would like to see put some money into LIDAR surveys in the Amazon.

02:07:42.000 I'd like to see them put some money into the Comet Research Group as well because they've funded themselves all the way along now.

02:07:48.000 But now they've got some major funding.

02:07:50.000 We're going to see some huge breakthroughs in that field.

02:07:53.000 And it doesn't matter how much other scientists dislike what they're doing.

02:07:57.000 They are giving us the data.

02:07:59.000 The data ultimately is what matters, not people's opinion.

02:08:01.000 And the data speaks to a gigantic worldwide apocalypse 12,800 years ago.

02:08:08.000 Jamie, can I have the sacred cable back?

02:08:11.000 I have to pee.

02:08:12.000 So let's pause and we'll come back and get back to this.

02:08:17.000 Sounds good.

02:08:19.000 Okay, we're back.

02:08:20.000 Are we back?

02:08:21.000 Yeah.

02:08:23.000 Here we go.

02:08:24.000 Oh, there we go.

02:08:26.000 Alright, so this is just sort of a graphic I put together to show The Torrid Meteor Stream, and this is based, there's two ellipses here, which goes back to the work of Fred Whipple way back in the 1940s, who was the first one to realize that the Torrid Meteor Stream was the byproduct of this ongoing fragmentation of an original giant comet.

02:08:49.000 Because what he was able to do when he did this succession of photographs is he was able to run the orbits in reverse.

02:08:55.000 And once he did that, he could see that these separate pieces within the stream all converged on the same point in space, which told him that they were once one object.

02:09:05.000 But anyways, what we've got here is, you'll notice here's Mercury, orbit of Mercury, I should get my glasses here.

02:09:17.000 Orbit of Venus, and then this third ring here is the orbit of the Earth.

02:09:21.000 The green arrows show the direction of the orbit, so here's the orbit of the Earth.

02:09:26.000 And here is the green arrows again show the direction of orbit of the stream.

02:09:32.000 And you can see that the Earth's orbit crosses the stream late June, early July, right here.

02:09:39.000 And then again, it crosses the stream around now, November, late October, early November.

02:09:45.000 And this has led the Torrid Stream to sometimes be referred to as the Halloween meteors, because they peak right around Halloween.

02:09:54.000 Okay, so what was the date of Tunguska?

02:09:57.000 June 30th, 1909. June 30th, yes.

02:10:02.000 So the timing was perfect.

02:10:04.000 The other thing was that the position where the meteor emanated from space was perfect because you can see that as the stream comes around the sun, If you're here on the earth and you're looking up the stream,

02:10:21.000 and here was the problem, why the object wasn't seen until the last few moments is because you had to almost look directly into the sun.

02:10:30.000 And that's why people, some of the eyewitnesses described it, it looked like the object was born out of the sun or that the sun split in two.

02:10:40.000 And this fiery object came and exploded.

02:10:44.000 Here's an important point.

02:10:45.000 It did not hit the ground.

02:10:47.000 It was an airburst.

02:10:48.000 It was an airburst.

02:10:49.000 And a lot of what we might be talking about with the Younger Dryas would be airbursts.

02:10:55.000 I just did a...

02:10:58.000 A whole presentation on October 30th talking about the universal observance of the Festival of the Dead and its connections with the Torrid Meteor Stream.

02:11:11.000 It's a very fascinating presentation.

02:11:15.000 If somebody wants to learn more about this, you can go on my website, you can download it.

02:11:20.000 What's the website?

02:11:22.000 Randallcarlson.com.

02:11:23.000 Okay.

02:11:26.000 When you're here, you're looking up towards the sun.

02:11:31.000 But when you're looking upstream here, you're looking out into space directly towards the Pleiades.

02:11:39.000 Very important constellation across the ancient world.

02:11:42.000 Yes.

02:11:43.000 And the Pleiades in traditional astrological context is the shoulder of the bull, Taurus the bull.

02:11:54.000 And you can go back and there's lots of mythologies about, you know, the Epic of Gilgamesh where the Gilchamesh and Enkidu do battle with the Bull of Heaven.

02:12:06.000 And that's why it's called the Taurid Meteor Stream, because it appears to emanate from the region of space in which the constellation of Taurus is.

02:12:13.000 It's not coming to us from Taurus, but it looks like it is.

02:12:17.000 It looks like it is, right?

02:12:20.000 So, yeah, this is the general idea right here.

02:12:26.000 You've got a radiant The meteors are actually coming in in parallel lines.

02:12:31.000 But when you look upstream, they're all emanating from a point in space.

02:12:36.000 So all meteor streams get their name from the constellation that they appear to be coming from.

02:12:44.000 So the Leonids, obviously Leo.

02:12:47.000 The Geminids, Gemini.

02:12:49.000 Orionids, Orion.

02:12:50.000 Exactly.

02:12:51.000 The Taurids, Taurus.

02:12:55.000 We won't get into this a whole lot.

02:12:57.000 That Tunguska event, you had some calculations on the size of the event.

02:13:00.000 Yes, the power of that event has been estimated based upon the destruction of the old-growth Taiga Forest.

02:13:09.000 They were able to estimate how much energy.

02:13:12.000 And the equivalent of that was about a 15 megaton hydrogen bomb.

02:13:18.000 Now, how do you wrap your head around what a 15 megaton explosion would look like?

02:13:24.000 Well, I got a graphic here that actually is an artist's depiction of what a 15 megaton explosion over a major city would look like.

02:13:35.000 There we go.

02:13:37.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:13:38.000 That is a 15 megaton explosion.

02:13:41.000 Now, Tunguska was one object.

02:13:45.000 It was about 150 feet in diameter.

02:13:48.000 Moving at a couple of tens of thousands of miles per hour.

02:13:52.000 So it's got this tremendous amount of potential energy.

02:13:55.000 It comes in so fast that the atmosphere can't move out of the way.

02:13:58.000 The atmosphere piles up in front of it, becomes like a solid, like a brick wall, and the object exploded maybe five miles up.

02:14:08.000 Devastated.

02:14:09.000 Like Graham said, it was 2,000-some square kilometers, about 825 square miles of old-growth Taiga forests got completely obliterated.

02:14:17.000 Now, if you want to try to wrap your head around what happened during the Younger Dryas, think a couple of thousand of these.

02:14:24.000 It would have been like an all-out nuclear war.

02:14:27.000 And it's left its traces all over the planet.

02:14:30.000 Everywhere we've looked, in fact.

02:14:32.000 Yeah.

02:14:32.000 And this happened many times for a thousand years?

02:14:36.000 I think there were multiple impacts.

02:14:38.000 It's clear that there was a peak of impacts 12,800 years ago.

02:14:41.000 I personally think this is not the Comet Research Group point of view, but I think it was another series of impacts 11,600 years ago that brought the Younger Dryas to an end.

02:14:51.000 And quite possibly an impact in a major ocean that led to the global warming with a huge cloud of water vapor.

02:14:58.000 That's actually not my thesis.

02:15:01.000 I've adopted it, but it's the work of Sir Fred Hoyle, a leading astronomer back in the 80s, who suggested that.

02:15:12.000 The 1,200 years of the Younger Dryas was 1,200 years of continuous cataclysm.

02:15:21.000 I think?

02:15:41.000 If the object that exploded over Siberia in 1908 had exploded over a major city, we'd all be paying very close attention to the torrid meteor stream today because the results would have been absolutely catastrophic.

02:15:54.000 But then, as Randall says, take that back 12,800 years ago.

02:15:57.000 Look at the massive bombardment that took place then, evidence as far west as the west coast of America, evidence as far east as Syria.

02:16:06.000 You're looking at a worldwide event.

02:16:09.000 Thousands of airbursts, huge numbers of objects coming in, some of them hitting the North American ice cap physically, some of them actually exploding in the air.

02:16:18.000 The end result fully explains how we could have lost a whole civilization from the record.

02:16:25.000 That's so compelling and so based on evidence.

02:16:28.000 Yeah, it is based on evidence.

02:16:31.000 And again, it's evidence that largely, unfortunately, is being ignored.

02:16:36.000 And often when I talk about this, I'm told don't be a fear monger.

02:16:42.000 Don't spread fear.

02:16:44.000 But actually, I don't want to spread fear.

02:16:47.000 I want to spread awareness.

02:16:50.000 Because we're not helpless.

02:16:52.000 That's one of the good things about our tech.

02:16:54.000 We actually have reached a level where we can do something about dangerous objects that the Earth is interacting with in space.

02:17:02.000 In fact, that has been done recently for the first time.

02:17:05.000 Yes, for the first time.

02:17:06.000 Dart, pushing an asteroid just slightly off course.

02:17:12.000 We now know that that's a practical possibility.

02:17:14.000 That's all you'd need to do with the dangerous objects in the torrid meteor stream.

02:17:18.000 But it would require a combined effort of all the advanced cultures on Earth today in order to bring that about.

02:17:24.000 It would be a big project, but it would be a worthy project.

02:17:27.000 And I can think of many unworthy projects that the big nations are investing in at the moment, which we really don't need.

02:17:34.000 This would be one that would be really rather useful.

02:17:37.000 Yeah, wouldn't it be better to cooperate and come up with a way of defending this planet?

02:17:43.000 And see, you talk to some people about this and they kind of consign it to the realm of science fiction.

02:17:50.000 But clearly, I mean, just a couple of days ago, a new asteroid was discovered within the orbit of Venus that had been completely invisible.

02:17:57.000 And it was huge.

02:17:58.000 Now, it's not Earth crossing, but I think we mentioned this.

02:18:01.000 The last time I was on here, you remember, I went through this whole series since the late 1980s showing the near misses that have occurred every few months.

02:18:12.000 Over and over again, I showed that on your show the last time I was here.

02:18:16.000 Those are real.

02:18:18.000 Those are real.

02:18:19.000 And sooner or later, I mean, they're out there now that have our planet's name on them.

02:18:24.000 Our name and our number.

02:18:26.000 We just haven't discovered them yet.

02:18:28.000 I mean, the estimates now of potentially dangerous Earth-crossing asteroids is maybe 10%.

02:18:33.000 Of what's actually out there.

02:18:35.000 Yeah.

02:18:35.000 And that's why I think we're not only dealing with a lost civilization of the past, we're also dealing with a potential lost civilization of the future.

02:18:44.000 And if that happened to us, one of the big problems with today's information is it's stored on hard drives.

02:18:51.000 All gone.

02:18:52.000 All gone, completely.

02:18:54.000 And another big problem is that the majority of people in the advanced industrialized so-called civilizations don't have a clue about how to survive.

02:19:03.000 I know you do.

02:19:04.000 Barely.

02:19:05.000 But you've developed some skills.

02:19:07.000 But I don't have those skills and most of us don't have those skills to survive.

02:19:12.000 Who would we take refuge with if our civilization went down?

02:19:16.000 We would have to take refuge with hunter-gatherers because hunter-gatherers are absolutely the masters of survival.

02:19:23.000 And I think that's what happened.

02:19:24.000 12,000, 11,000 years ago, the survivors of a higher civilization.

02:19:28.000 I don't like the word higher, but a different kind of civilization took refuge amongst hunter-gatherers and created projects like Gobekli Tepe, which were used to instruct and to teach and to bring in something new.

02:19:43.000 We have two episodes in Turkey in my series.

02:19:48.000 One episode is all about Gobekli Tepe, but Gobekli Tepe, 11,600 years old, isn't alone.

02:19:54.000 There's another site we were the first film crew to get into called Karahan Tepe, which has now been excavated.

02:20:00.000 Dates from the same period.

02:20:02.000 It's the most extraordinary and amazing site.

02:20:06.000 Nobody knew it was there until a decade ago.

02:20:09.000 Furthermore, they found another 11 sites All of them in a ring around Göbekli Tepe.

02:20:14.000 All of them intervisible from one another because they're on hilltops.

02:20:18.000 They've discovered them but they haven't yet been excavated.

02:20:21.000 It's fascinating that they all date to this period of 11,600 years ago.

02:20:26.000 Another thing that we do in another episode of the series is we look at the so-called underground cities of Turkey.

02:20:32.000 This is quite a famous phenomenon in Turkey that there are huge cities.

02:20:37.000 They look like Ant farms on an enormous scale that are dug out under the earth. 1.00

02:20:43.000 Hundreds and hundreds of rooms that huge efforts was put into digging deep beneath the earth and creating these shelters.

02:20:50.000 And archaeology does not have a good explanation about what they're there for or why they were built or when they were built.

02:20:57.000 They're all cut out of stone.

02:20:58.000 You can only date objects that were left in them.

02:21:01.000 You can't say when they were actually made.

02:21:03.000 What makes sense of those underground cities to me is that they were built as places of refuge that people could go into during an episode of meteor bombardment during the Younger Dryas because there wasn't just the one 12,800 years ago.

02:21:17.000 There were multiple episodes over the next 1,200 years.

02:21:19.000 It makes sense that these underground cities were built as places of shelter, not as places to hide from an invading army.

02:21:26.000 The last place you want to go if you have an invading army is to go hide underground.

02:21:30.000 All they have to do is block up the entrances.

02:21:32.000 They don't even have to fight you, you know.

02:21:34.000 But if you're dealing with a periodic event which will be over in a couple of weeks, they're great places to retreat into.

02:21:41.000 The evidence is all around us, all around the world.

02:21:43.000 And that's why I've made this series because I want to show people that it's not just a single thing.

02:21:47.000 There's a huge story here.

02:21:48.000 When they date objects that they find in these underground cities, what are the dates they find?

02:21:53.000 The oldest, they actually have no idea.

02:21:56.000 They were used by Christians.

02:21:58.000 They were used by Muslims.

02:22:00.000 They were used back in 2,000 plus years ago as homes in some cases.

02:22:09.000 There's some evidence that they, going back 2,800 years, but it's all from objects built Found inside them.

02:22:20.000 And those objects don't tell us when the original work of cutting out these enormous structures.

02:22:26.000 And it took an enormous will to create them.

02:22:29.000 There's not just one.

02:22:30.000 There's dozens of them.

02:22:32.000 Can we find those, Jimmy?

02:22:33.000 Oh, I'm sorry, Randall, you got the...

02:22:35.000 Oh, pass the sacred cord.

02:22:38.000 Or maybe you could find them.

02:22:40.000 Yeah, I could.

02:22:41.000 Derinkuyu, for example.

02:22:44.000 What's the name of the place?

02:22:46.000 D-E-R-I-N. D-E-R-I-N. K-U-Y-U. Got it right there. 1.00

02:22:54.000 What's the oldest object they find in there?

02:22:58.000 2,800 years plus.

02:23:00.000 Whoa.

02:23:01.000 Look at this.

02:23:03.000 Cross-section is just amazing.

02:23:05.000 I spent hours down there just wandering around and looking at this amazing place.

02:23:10.000 And it makes no sense to me.

02:23:12.000 It's carved into stone.

02:23:14.000 Yeah.

02:23:15.000 It's cut literally out of the bedrock beneath the ground.

02:23:19.000 There, you can see a cross-section on the left there.

02:23:21.000 Far left?

02:23:22.000 Yeah.

02:23:24.000 Wow.

02:23:26.000 These are a huge mystery.

02:23:28.000 And the fact that objects have been dated to certain periods does not tell us when they were used.

02:23:32.000 Every new culture that went in there would have removed most of the stuff that was in there before.

02:23:37.000 But when you ask yourself what was the motive for creating something like this, the motive is clearly to hide from a danger from above, in my view.

02:23:48.000 That's incredible.

02:23:49.000 Yeah.

02:23:50.000 The most remarkable places.

02:23:52.000 And they can be visited.

02:23:54.000 The two that I visited in the series are Derinkuyu and Kaimakli.

02:23:58.000 And these two sites are joined by an eight-kilometer tunnel underground.

02:24:03.000 Eight kilometers.

02:24:04.000 Eight kilometers wrong, which joins the two of them.

02:24:07.000 Dug out of stone.

02:24:08.000 Dug out of stone.

02:24:09.000 The whole thing.

02:24:10.000 Wow.

02:24:11.000 How long would it take to complete something like this?

02:24:14.000 Well, it would take a very long time indeed, that's all I can say.

02:24:18.000 Nobody's really done the calculations.

02:24:20.000 And that one shows a vent to the sky?

02:24:23.000 Yep, they have vents to the sky to allow air to come in.

02:24:27.000 But you have to consider, if you've got 10,000 or 15,000 people in there, They can't really stay in there much longer than about two or three weeks, which is about the time it takes to pass through the taurid meteor stream.

02:24:39.000 Otherwise, you're going to get a huge amount of human refuse built up inside these.

02:24:43.000 They're going to become inhospitable places.

02:24:46.000 But if they're only to be used for two weeks at a time, then they're fine.

02:24:50.000 They have air vents.

02:24:51.000 They have water.

02:24:52.000 They're incredibly well thought out.

02:24:54.000 There's water in there or they store water in there?

02:24:56.000 They store water in there, yeah.

02:24:58.000 Wow.

02:24:59.000 And down below it, you drill deeper and you come to wells.

02:25:03.000 That's incredible.

02:25:04.000 Look at the sophistication of the construction too.

02:25:09.000 So we're looking at a series of mysteries that are unexplained by archaeology or that are explained in unsatisfactory ways.

02:25:21.000 And what I've tried to do is to offer alternative explanations.

02:25:26.000 I think?

02:25:47.000 Keep on with that fantasy any longer because the evidence spoke to a human presence far older than 13,000 years ago.

02:25:54.000 It's beginning to happen now with the Younger Dryas impact and the events of the Younger Dryas.

02:26:00.000 But as you begin to grasp the magnitude of these things, when you start talking about the...

02:26:08.000 The tremendous earthworks of North America, of which only a small fraction still exists.

02:26:13.000 The structures in the Amazon, which to me was the most incredible part of America before.

02:26:19.000 Thank you.

02:26:20.000 I kind of was getting the gist of it, but when I read that, I'm like, oh, wow.

02:26:25.000 Because here was, I had studied considerably in depth into the North American monumental earthworks, have visited most of the extant ones that still remain, very impressive, and then find out there's even a greater magnitude in South America,

02:26:42.000 in the Amazon.

02:26:43.000 That was mind-blowing to me.

02:26:45.000 And many of them unexplored.

02:26:46.000 Most of them unexplored.

02:26:48.000 Just identified on LIDAR. Very few have been explored.

02:26:52.000 And very little of the surface has been explored even by LIDAR. Absolutely.

02:26:56.000 It's a tiny fraction.

02:26:57.000 Two percent maybe.

02:26:59.000 Maybe less than that.

02:27:00.000 So when you look at the magnitude of these extraordinary building You've got to go, why?

02:27:10.000 There had to have been a motive.

02:27:12.000 There's such an incongruity there between the idea of hunter-gatherers or even subsistence farmers undertaking projects of such enormous magnitude.

02:27:23.000 To me, there's just a disparity there.

02:27:26.000 There's a disconnect.

02:27:28.000 The so-called Mound Builder culture of North America has been hugely underestimated and not given the priority it deserves.

02:27:36.000 That's why we devoted one episode of this series to the Mound Builder sites in North America, to Serpent Mound, to Poverty Point in Louisiana.

02:27:43.000 Fantastic site.

02:27:45.000 The thing that's not realized is that the vast majority of what stood here 600 years ago has been destroyed.

02:27:53.000 We're good to go.

02:28:20.000 2,700 years ago.

02:28:22.000 But it's directly connected to another site, Watson Break, which is just a mile to the south.

02:28:28.000 It's lined up perfectly with Watson Break.

02:28:31.000 The two sites are anchored to one another.

02:28:33.000 Watson Break goes back 5,300 years ago.

02:28:36.000 There are other sites that go back 8,000 years ago.

02:28:39.000 And these are just the ones that have survived.

02:28:41.000 I think that mound builder culture, as it's called in North America, goes back deep into the Ice Age as well.

02:28:47.000 We're looking again at a mystery that we only have fragments of it to try and draw conclusions from.

02:28:56.000 But those fragments speak to a majesty in the past of North America that has been largely ignored.

02:29:04.000 And part of the reason that it was ignored was that in the process of settling North America, it was felt useful to diminish the achievements of those whose lands were being taken over.

02:29:16.000 To regard them as inferior in some way rather than superior.

02:29:21.000 But when you look at the works of their hands, you see that superior people were definitely involved in North America and that they have a very ancient culture, which has been, you know, sadly, sadly unrecognized.

02:29:32.000 And again, with the destruction caused by the Younger Dryas impact theory, most of it would be gone.

02:29:40.000 Well, absolutely.

02:29:41.000 The effect of that cannot be overestimated.

02:29:46.000 The scale of the flooding across North America in the four or five hundred miles south of the ice cap, roughly the ice cap went down roughly, what, to about Minnesota?

02:29:56.000 Something like that.

02:29:57.000 Everything south of that was just torn to shreds by the Younger Dryas cataclysm.

02:30:02.000 Absolutely wrecked.

02:30:03.000 Anything that was there that would speak to our past was destroyed by nature, completely destroyed before other human beings came along and destroyed it further.

02:30:12.000 And I just think it's important that That we allow alternative voices to speak out, and that's one of the things that I really appreciate about your show, Joe, because you have a major platform,

02:30:29.000 you reach a major audience, and what you're doing is you're allowing alternative voices to speak out.

02:30:34.000 A lot of people misunderstand what you're doing, but what you're doing is actually allowing voices that had been suppressed To speak out and thus provide the general public with more options, with more to think about than they had before.

02:30:48.000 And I really appreciate that.

02:30:50.000 Can I play one more from the show?

02:30:51.000 Sure, please.

02:30:52.000 Do we need to pass the sacred cable again?

02:30:55.000 Here we go.

02:30:57.000 Here we don't go, as the case may be.

02:31:02.000 And that's the one called, it begins with the word Joe.

02:31:07.000 Joe, you very kindly appeared in my series, and I'm grateful to you for that.

02:31:13.000 Oh, my pleasure.

02:31:14.000 It's my honor.

02:31:16.000 I'm so excited that this is a thing.

02:31:18.000 Yeah.

02:31:18.000 Well, so am I. I just hope that it has the impact that I believe it will.

02:31:27.000 There's people that come along and because of their impact, it changes the way people look at things.

02:31:33.000 Graham Hancock is a man who, despite all of the insults and all the people disparaging his work, he has trekked on and on and on.

02:31:46.000 What I care about is learning the lessons of the past...

02:31:49.000 ...in order to clear away that fog that surrounds prehistory.

02:31:54.000 And it's a fog because there's no documents.

02:31:56.000 We have to build our picture of the past from fragmentary evidence.

02:32:06.000 Yay.

02:32:07.000 Yay.

02:32:09.000 There's huge forces at work that would like this to be shut down.

02:32:13.000 Archaeologists are already complaining to Netflix and saying this show should never be put on the air.

02:32:18.000 Hancock has to be kept silent basically.

02:32:20.000 They say that I'm misleading the public.

02:32:23.000 I think the public are intelligent enough to make up their own minds.

02:32:26.000 Well, I would invite those people to come on here and talk with you.

02:32:30.000 Yes, I would love to.

02:32:31.000 I think that would be fascinating.

02:32:32.000 I would love to do that.

02:32:32.000 It would be fascinating to see their argument about the Younger Dryas Impact Theory, about all of this, because it seems so compelling and so overwhelmingly evidence-based.

02:32:43.000 Absolutely.

02:32:43.000 It would be a great debate to have.

02:32:46.000 Very few archaeologists are willing to debate with me.

02:32:48.000 That's what I was going to say.

02:32:49.000 I think you'd have a hard time getting some of them to come on here.

02:32:52.000 They will make excuses like they won't lower themselves to engaging about such ideas.

02:32:58.000 Or giving him a platform.

02:32:59.000 That's my favorite one.

02:33:00.000 That's the one they use a lot.

02:33:02.000 Too late.

02:33:04.000 Is that coffee?

02:33:05.000 Sure.

02:33:05.000 Get in there, buddy.

02:33:06.000 Just a little shot.

02:33:06.000 A couple of inches maybe.

02:33:07.000 All right.

02:33:08.000 You got it.

02:33:10.000 That'll do.

02:33:12.000 Thank you.

02:33:15.000 It's really been fascinating to be a fan of your work, to get to know you, and you were one of the very first guests that we ever had.

02:33:21.000 Joe, we go back a long way.

02:33:23.000 Yeah, because you were one of the very first guests that wasn't just a comedian, like a friend of mine.

02:33:27.000 Right.

02:33:27.000 And I was so excited about that episode that we did with Duncan Trussell.

02:33:32.000 Yes, that's right.

02:33:33.000 And, you know, Duncan and I have always followed your work.

02:33:35.000 We've both been giant fans of yours.

02:33:37.000 Thank you for that.

02:33:45.000 Substantiated by real hard evidence.

02:33:47.000 Yeah.

02:33:47.000 That's very encouraging to me too because I take a lot of flack and a lot of insults for what I do and for what I say.

02:33:55.000 And what's happened little bit by little bit is the evidence has come in which doesn't allow those critics to say what they – they still say it but they can't say it with any authority anymore.

02:34:07.000 Gobekli Tepe just destroyed the argument that the Sphinx can't be 12,000 years old.

02:34:12.000 The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis destroys the argument that there was no cataclysm 12,000 years ago.

02:34:18.000 There's just more and more evidence coming out, and I think we're going to see much more of it in the future.

02:34:24.000 Yeah.

02:34:25.000 Won't you mention the Cosmic Summit?

02:34:28.000 Yeah, we have a conference coming up next year, which is going to be called the Cosmic Summit, and I think it's in June.

02:34:35.000 Asheville, North Carolina.

02:34:36.000 I'll put it up on my website, which is grahamhancock.com.

02:34:40.000 It'll be on mine as well.

02:34:41.000 It'll be on yours as well.

02:34:42.000 Oh, there it is.

02:34:43.000 Look at that.

02:34:44.000 There it is.

02:34:46.000 That's, yeah, June 16th to 18th, 2023. Scroll up there, Jamie, so I see who's on there with you guys.

02:34:53.000 Oh, Jimmy Corsetti, who's been on the podcast before as well.

02:34:56.000 Keep going.

02:34:56.000 I think we can find...

02:34:57.000 There's some...

02:34:59.000 Alan West going to join us.

02:35:00.000 One of the good things about this, we're having a number of the scientists from the Comet Research Group who are going to join us and speak at the event.

02:35:07.000 So it's going to be a mixture of outsiders, alternative thinkers like ourselves, and mainstream scientists who are proposing this new science.

02:35:14.000 Yeah, Tankersby.

02:35:14.000 I saw his name.

02:35:15.000 Yeah, Keith Tankersby.

02:35:17.000 West.

02:35:17.000 Yeah, Moore.

02:35:18.000 Yeah.

02:35:19.000 I'm not familiar with Collins.

02:35:20.000 But these are all leading scientists who are involved in...

02:35:22.000 Oh, he's, yeah.

02:35:23.000 Tell Alamon.

02:35:24.000 Yeah.

02:35:24.000 That's him, yeah.

02:35:25.000 Involved in the research behind the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis.

02:35:30.000 Can you go back, Jamie?

02:35:32.000 Go down.

02:35:34.000 Stop.

02:35:34.000 Go down.

02:35:35.000 This is somebody, Lieutenant Colonel Lohmeyer.

02:35:38.000 I would like you to get him on your show.

02:35:40.000 Okay.

02:35:41.000 He's, well, you can read about him right there.

02:35:45.000 Former commander of the U.S. Space Force, Air Force Academy graduate, fighter pilot, relieved of his duties in 2021 for writing a book encouraging the reform of the U.S. military.

02:35:56.000 He's an awesome dude.

02:35:59.000 And he would absolutely love to have a conversation with you.

02:36:02.000 I would love to.

02:36:03.000 What was that book that he wrote that relieved him of his duties?

02:36:08.000 He was basically exposing the wokeness that was infecting the military, the political correctness and the wokeness. 0.64

02:36:18.000 They spent millions of dollars training this guy and then they dismiss him because he was telling the truth about what's happening, how the military is becoming a political tool, which it's not supposed to be.

02:36:30.000 Of course.

02:36:31.000 Yeah.

02:36:32.000 But he's a good man and he's going to be joining us.

02:36:36.000 You'll meet him.

02:36:38.000 You haven't met him yet, have you?

02:36:39.000 I have not met him.

02:36:40.000 What is he speaking about on this?

02:36:42.000 I think he's gonna, well, before all this pandemic stuff hit, He contacted me.

02:36:50.000 I think he heard me on your show.

02:36:53.000 I think that's where he...

02:36:55.000 So, he contacted me.

02:36:57.000 He was based, I think, in Huntsville.

02:37:00.000 And he was about to assume, like, second in command of the Space Force.

02:37:04.000 In fact, there's a video where Matt Lohmeyer is meeting with...

02:37:08.000 He's got the whole...

02:37:10.000 Jamie, pull up Matt Lohmeyer, Donald Trump.

02:37:15.000 And there's a video where he's got the whole Space Force behind him.

02:37:20.000 He's meeting with Donald Trump, talking about the mission of Space Force.

02:37:25.000 Well, he contacted me and said that he was very interested in the idea of planetary defense.

02:37:31.000 And he said there was a group within the Space Force that saw that as being a part of their mission.

02:37:38.000 So he had set up, I was going to go and do a presentation to the base commanders of the whole Space Force on planetary defense and the need for planetary defense, and then the COVID hit.

02:37:50.000 So then that got derailed.

02:37:52.000 Then he reorganized a second possible presentation, and the dates of the venue and everything was set, and then he got the boot because his book came out.

02:38:03.000 And I think he went on, maybe he was on Tucker Carlson, maybe, talking about his book and the wokeness in the military and like within a week he'd been given the boot.

02:38:16.000 So that's, I think he's going to be talking planetary defense against asteroid impacts.

02:38:23.000 Cancel culture.

02:38:25.000 This is one of the sinister aspects of our society today.

02:38:30.000 It's bizarre how effective it is.

02:38:32.000 It's incredibly effective in shutting down alternative voices.

02:38:36.000 Our governments behave as though citizens who are adults are not adults, that they're children, that they can't make decisions for themselves.

02:38:44.000 We have to respect the intelligence of the man in the street.

02:38:48.000 Present everybody with all the information and let them make up their own minds.

02:38:52.000 Let's not censor information before it gets out there.

02:38:54.000 And the fact that this happens to me in archaeology is just a tiny slice of what's happening all over the world today.

02:39:01.000 That there's a narrative which is being forced down the throat of the public.

02:39:05.000 And alternative views are being shut down very, very carefully.

02:39:08.000 But the truth will out.

02:39:10.000 Yes, I do believe the truth will eventually come to the surface.

02:39:13.000 But it's basic human nature, right?

02:39:16.000 I mean that – when the people have control of information, they want to retain control of information and the dissemination of that information.

02:39:22.000 And when you look at people who go into politics, why do they even choose to do that?

02:39:27.000 Because they want to control others.

02:39:29.000 That's the nature of their personalities from the outset.

02:39:32.000 And we need less of that.

02:39:33.000 In my view, we need much less government.

02:39:36.000 Government is the most unhealthy thing.

02:39:38.000 Next to religion, governments are amongst the influences in the world that are causing so much chaos and so much misery in the world and are spreading hatred and fear and suspicion all the time.

02:39:49.000 We should have reached the stage where we're able to lead ourselves, where leaders should be really just working for us, not dominating and controlling us. 0.99

02:39:59.000 We need to reach that stage fast if we're going to move forward as a human species, because right now the leadership of this planet is just full of shit from beginning to end. 0.96

02:40:08.000 Well, the only thing that gives me hope about that is the resurgence of the interest in psychedelics. 0.98

02:40:13.000 Yes, me hope too.

02:40:14.000 The more people embrace that and the more people have these experiences, the more people will start to gradually understand that that really is the only way out of this.

02:40:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:40:24.000 First of all, because of the experiences they will have.

02:40:27.000 Which will definitely alter the way they think.

02:40:30.000 And secondly, because it is an assertion of the right of adults to make decisions over their own bodies and their own experiences.

02:40:38.000 This is what's so fundamental to it.

02:40:40.000 That's why it's a real liberation struggle that is going on around psychedelics.

02:40:45.000 It's not a trivial issue.

02:40:46.000 It's a very, very major issue.

02:40:48.000 And it's a sign of the world that we live in that governments have attempted to shut down adult access to psychedelics for so long.

02:40:56.000 But the new evidence is coming out that just doesn't allow that to happen anymore.

02:41:00.000 This is why I think it would be valuable to talk to Ben Johnson about his work.

02:41:05.000 And he's got an interesting story.

02:41:07.000 I won't try to get into it.

02:41:08.000 But other than the fact that, you know, when I asked him, how did you manage to...

02:41:14.000 Get licensed.

02:41:15.000 You know, how did you manage to pull this off?

02:41:17.000 And he said, well, I went in with like a dozen of my SEAL buddies into a variety of congressman's office, and we basically walked in and said, you're going to do this.

02:41:28.000 And they couldn't back down.

02:41:31.000 Not when you've got a dozen Navy SEALs sitting in your office saying, you're going to do this.

02:41:37.000 Because they've had the experiences.

02:41:38.000 Yes.

02:41:39.000 And tremendously benefited by their experiences.

02:41:44.000 Well, it's a crazy aspect of the military and war that we expect these people to have these insane, violent experiences overseas and then come back and just integrate into society.

02:41:59.000 Yeah.

02:42:00.000 How can they possibly do so?

02:42:01.000 How can they?

02:42:02.000 With very little guidance.

02:42:03.000 Yeah.

02:42:04.000 Right.

02:42:04.000 Yeah.

02:42:05.000 Well, that needs to change.

02:42:07.000 And I think, you know, what he's doing is going to be a big factor in that.

02:42:11.000 And of course, the legalization of it is only as far as like medicinal use.

02:42:16.000 It's not going to be for recreational use.

02:42:18.000 But even that.

02:42:19.000 Yeah.

02:42:20.000 I mean, that's how marijuana got started.

02:42:21.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:42:22.000 I think I'm going to go.

02:42:42.000 Everybody – Canadians get annoyed with me and they say, look, cannabis is legal across Canada and it is and that's true and that's great.

02:42:49.000 But that was a government decision.

02:42:51.000 What's needed – what's happening in America is people are taking their power back.

02:42:56.000 And if they're taking their power back over their own bodies and their own health and their own consciousness, then the next step is to take their power back in lots of other ways as well.

02:43:03.000 Well, that's the fear.

02:43:05.000 And that's why there's so much resistance to this idea, and that's why there's so much of a power reach by the federal government, because they don't want that to happen.

02:43:13.000 They don't want that, no.

02:43:14.000 That is a slippery slope.

02:43:15.000 They want people to be passive yes-men and women who don't ever argue with them.

02:43:20.000 And the evidence, you see that as what you're talking about, this forced compliance during COVID. Historically, governments have taken advantage over whenever there's a big situation where some sort of a disaster or national tragedy to grasp more power.

02:43:38.000 Exactly.

02:43:38.000 And it's happened here.

02:43:39.000 And as I said earlier, to deliberate, calculated strategy to encourage a habit of obedience so that it becomes habitual to obey.

02:43:49.000 And, you know, whatever COVID is, whatever it is or it isn't, however it came about, whatever its cause and origins were, the one thing's clear.

02:43:58.000 It's been used To encourage obedience.

02:44:02.000 And it's been used very cleverly to encourage obedience.

02:44:05.000 And we do not need to be obedient to these monsters who are running the world.

02:44:09.000 We need to change things and bring the normal everyday citizen back into the dialogue.

02:44:19.000 The downside of it was this encouraging of obedience.

02:44:23.000 But the encouraging thing about it, to me, is that so many people are recognizing what happened now.

02:44:30.000 And so many people are far more distrusting of the government narratives and the medical industry and the pharmaceutical industry, and that they've realized that they've been used for profit.

02:44:42.000 And that this narrative has shifted into fear-mongering, specifically designed to get more profit.

02:44:50.000 I think, like Graham said, I think the government and those in power want a flock of obedient sheep.

02:44:59.000 But I think it's time now for the lions to exert themselves.

02:45:04.000 That's my perspective.

02:45:06.000 And how we do this, maybe it starts state by state.

02:45:09.000 We get governors in places who will stand up to the federal government and say, no, you're not going to impose your mandates on us.

02:45:17.000 We could govern ourselves.

02:45:19.000 I think that's where it starts.

02:45:21.000 Yeah, I think you're right.

02:45:22.000 And I think there's a lot of encouragement about the way people are discussing things today.

02:45:28.000 That seems to me there's a lot of very reasonable people that have actually changed their perspective over COVID. They had a narrative in their mind about the role of the federal government, and then seeing it kind of running amok over the last few years, they've realized, oh, this is a dangerous trend.

02:45:42.000 And if this continues, you're going to have...

02:45:44.000 Some sort of a centralized digital currency.

02:45:47.000 You're going to have a social credit score system. 0.99

02:45:49.000 And when that happens, we're fucked. 1.00

02:45:52.000 Totally fucked. 1.00

02:45:53.000 That's not a world we want to go into. 1.00

02:45:55.000 No.

02:45:55.000 We need to stop it now.

02:45:57.000 And there's people saying that that's the only way we're going to compete with China, which is crazy.

02:46:00.000 Like, no.

02:46:01.000 That's not true.

02:46:02.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:46:03.000 It's not true.

02:46:03.000 That's what separates us from China.

02:46:05.000 It separates us from all governments that are controlled by dictators.

02:46:08.000 Exactly.

02:46:09.000 Is that we have freedom, freedom of thought, freedom of expression, freedom to debate ideas and to propose alternative ideas and freedom to live your life the way you want to live.

02:46:19.000 That's the beautiful thing about states' rights.

02:46:21.000 Yeah, it is.

02:46:22.000 It is.

02:46:23.000 And it's exactly that issue that I'm up against with archaeology and the past.

02:46:28.000 Just as I would like adults to have sovereignty over their own consciousness, I would also like us all to have sovereignty over our own past and not to be told what to think about the past.

02:46:39.000 If this is successful on Netflix, has there been any discussions about future episodes, future seasons?

02:46:50.000 Well, Netflix is the law of the jungle.

02:46:52.000 So if the series is successful, I hope that there will be a second season.

02:46:59.000 And if it's not successful, there definitely won't be a second season.

02:47:04.000 But I hope there will be.

02:47:05.000 I hope the series will succeed.

02:47:06.000 I hope people will watch it.

02:47:08.000 And if they do in that second season, I would like to look at psychedelics and I'd like to look at the Amazon.

02:47:15.000 I'd like to spend much more time in the Amazon looking at that and the way that psychedelics are used there and also at the mysterious backstory of the Amazon, which so far is not being told.

02:47:27.000 But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

02:47:29.000 Either this series will work or it won't work.

02:47:34.000 And if I can do a little plug, it launches on Netflix on the 11th of November 2022. All episodes will be released at once so people can watch it in one night if they wish to do so.

02:47:49.000 How many episodes?

02:47:50.000 Eight.

02:47:51.000 Eight episodes altogether.

02:47:52.000 And it's the last episode that really unfolds the ancient apocalypse element of this.

02:48:00.000 And in the first seven episodes, we're looking at all the mysteries in the past of humanity that are so far unexplained.

02:48:07.000 Could I pop up one last clip?

02:48:10.000 Yes, please.

02:48:12.000 That's going to be the one called Horizon, Jamie.

02:48:21.000 For 30 years, I've been looking for something I was told couldn't possibly exist.

02:48:28.000 An advanced human civilization much older than our own, lost to history.

02:48:36.000 The mainstream version of history says that after the end of the Ice Age...

02:48:42.000 On their own initiative, our hunter-gatherer ancestors suddenly began farming and raising livestock, creating settlements and eventually cities, until the first civilizations emerged around 6,000 years ago.

02:48:59.000 But new discoveries keep on pushing that horizon back.

02:49:06.000 Very exciting.

02:49:07.000 That's the point.

02:49:08.000 We're trying to bring those new discoveries out and let people see for themselves what is going on here.

02:49:17.000 Well, fingers crossed.

02:49:19.000 Listen, it's going to be gigantic.

02:49:20.000 We're going to force it.

02:49:22.000 We're going to make sure people watch it.

02:49:24.000 I think there's kind of a network of various researchers who are looking at different aspects of this and trying to get this word out in different ways.

02:49:34.000 And many of them I've brought together in this series.

02:49:37.000 Yeah, good.

02:49:38.000 I've brought together the leading alternative voices, including very much yours.

02:49:41.000 Oh, thank you, Graham.

02:49:42.000 I think the genie's out of the bottle, and I'm honored to have you guys on.

02:49:46.000 I really am.

02:49:47.000 I'll put it this way.

02:49:48.000 I think that what we've been confronted with is this huge wall With big gates, almost like you might picture on Mordor or something.

02:49:58.000 Big gates.

02:49:59.000 And there's little chinks in the wall and little cracks in the gate. 1.00

02:50:02.000 And we've been peering through, looking at this other world and only getting a little piece of it.

02:50:08.000 But I'll make a prediction that within the next few years, we're about to blow those gates right off their hinges.

02:50:14.000 And everything is going to change from that moment on.

02:50:18.000 I think you're right.

02:50:19.000 Yep.

02:50:19.000 Absolutely.

02:50:20.000 I'm very excited.

02:50:21.000 Bring it on.

02:50:22.000 Bring it on.

02:50:23.000 Bring it on.

02:50:23.000 Let's have a different way of looking at things.

02:50:27.000 Let's not stay locked in the old patterns.

02:50:29.000 Let's move ahead in new and different ways.

02:50:32.000 Yes.

02:50:33.000 Let's.

02:50:35.000 Gentlemen, I'm honored.

02:50:36.000 I'm honored to have you on.

02:50:37.000 I'm honored to be your friend.

02:50:38.000 Thank you, Joe.

02:50:39.000 Likewise, Joe.

02:50:40.000 Thank you.

02:50:41.000 And thank you for the work we've done together over the years.

02:50:45.000 It's been exciting.

02:50:45.000 Without your support, archaeology would have succeeded in keeping my mouth shut and in keeping me out of the public view.

02:50:53.000 Your support has made all that difference.

02:50:55.000 Well, it's one of the main things that I love about doing this show is to be able to expose people to really exciting, and in this case, I think very important ideas.

02:51:04.000 Yeah.

02:51:04.000 And I'm going to keep nagging you until I can get you out in the field for a few days.

02:51:08.000 I'll go.

02:51:09.000 I'll go.

02:51:09.000 I promise.

02:51:10.000 And those gentlemen that you requested, I'll definitely have them on as well.

02:51:15.000 Definitely.

02:51:16.000 And let's organize a debate with some of the leading archaeological critics.

02:51:20.000 Anybody out there?

02:51:22.000 Holler at your boy.

02:51:23.000 Get you on.

02:51:24.000 Be happy to do that and treat you with respect.

02:51:27.000 It's not going to be an ambush.

02:51:29.000 I'd just love to hear a respectable position that counters this and see how they face up against the preponderance of evidence.

02:51:39.000 I don't know.

02:51:41.000 I mean, I don't know.

02:51:43.000 My thought is you're going to have a tough time convincing them to come on.

02:51:47.000 Well, maybe as you were saying that as these gatekeepers die off and as younger archaeologists are more open-minded and so many people who maybe got into archaeology because of this.

02:51:56.000 Oh, yeah.

02:51:58.000 I think the number is considerable.

02:52:00.000 Yes.

02:52:01.000 I've met many young archaeologists in the field on my travels and research who secretly tell me that they've read my books.

02:52:10.000 Secretly?

02:52:11.000 Yeah.

02:52:11.000 But they have to keep their mouth shut.

02:52:12.000 They don't want their bosses to know, but they have read my books and that they are interested.

02:52:17.000 I think that just as the younger generation in every area is breaking the old boundaries, I think that's happening in archaeology too.

02:52:24.000 And I don't want to be somebody who's just completely putting down archaeology.

02:52:27.000 Archaeology has done a lot of fantastic and important work over the years, and I couldn't do what I do without the work that archaeologists have done.

02:52:35.000 But it's just that gatekeeper role which needs to be broken apart.

02:52:40.000 Well, through your work, I think that's happening.

02:52:44.000 I hope so.

02:52:45.000 All right.

02:52:46.000 Thank you, Joe.

02:52:46.000 Thank you.

02:52:47.000 Thank you.

02:52:47.000 Thank you, Randall.

02:52:48.000 Enjoyed the heck out of it, Joe.

02:52:49.000 Always.

02:52:50.000 It's a pleasure.

02:52:51.000 So we'll have you back on.

02:52:52.000 This is number seven for me, man.

02:52:52.000 How many have we done?

02:52:53.000 I think we've done, this is probably the ninth.

02:52:56.000 Well, we've got to get you on a couple more times to balance it out.

02:52:59.000 So the next time we come on, we'll discuss all of this alternative technology that's being worked on.

02:53:05.000 You can do that in January if you want.

02:53:06.000 Let's do it.

02:53:07.000 Let's do it.

02:53:08.000 All right.

02:53:08.000 Thank you very much.

02:53:09.000 Thank you.

02:53:10.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 10, 2022

Joe Rogan Experience #1897 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

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Transcript