The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #132 with Joaquin Buckley

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Mr. Buckley, how are you, sir?

00:00:14.000 Man, I'm doing good, Joe.

00:00:15.000 Good to have you in here, man.

00:00:16.000 Hey, man, thanks for having me.

00:00:17.000 You are the owner of the most highlighted, the most viral video in the history of MMA, I think. 0.99

00:00:23.000 That fucking jump, spinning back, kicked in the face. 0.99

00:00:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:00:26.000 I think so, man. 1.00

00:00:27.000 You know, it took a minute for me to actually like...

00:00:30.000 Think that it is, you know what I mean?

00:00:31.000 Because there's so many other, like, awesome knockouts out there. 1.00

00:00:34.000 You know, like, my man, you know, Dan Hendo over, you know, Bisbee, you know, with the H-bomb. 0.98

00:00:38.000 And then with my man, S.M. Barboza with the, you know, spinning heel kick on Terry Adam, you know?

00:00:43.000 And, like, Francis Ngannou, you know what I'm saying?

00:00:45.000 Like, just so many, like, different heavy hitters out there with great KOs, you know?

00:00:49.000 But once I really, like...

00:00:51.000 Sat back and looked at it and it took some time to actually take everything in.

00:00:55.000 I'm like, yeah, that's pretty dope. 0.97

00:00:56.000 Well, yours was crazy because he's holding one foot and you jump spinning back, kick him in the face with the other foot. 0.83

00:01:01.000 I mean, that is just wild.

00:01:03.000 I mean, have you ever done that in a fight before?

00:01:06.000 Nah, so that was my first time.

00:01:08.000 So, you know, if you want to really hear it, man, it's a long story with it because nobody taught me that kick, you know.

00:01:14.000 What?

00:01:14.000 I never had an instructor.

00:01:16.000 Really?

00:01:16.000 No, not at all.

00:01:17.000 You know, I was just fascinated with martial arts, you know, since I was a little kid, you know, and...

00:01:22.000 Once I got started with MMA and stuff like that, the gym where I came from, it could only teach so much.

00:01:28.000 The instructors only knew so much.

00:01:29.000 It was just like a mom and pop gym type stuff where a lot of people would just get into shape.

00:01:36.000 But overall, though...

00:01:38.000 When I used to go on YouTube, I used to watch a lot of different videos, you know, on how to, you know, not just train as a mixed martial artist, but just to learn, like, different moves and techniques from different disciplines.

00:01:48.000 From not just taekwondo, but, you know, hapkido, you know, kushin, sanshao, you know, all these different disciplines that I used to take from.

00:01:57.000 And then once I looked at the disciplines, I looked at who the best people in it, right?

00:02:01.000 And then I looked at different people that's in those disciplines, whatever.

00:02:04.000 And guess who I ran into when I got into taekwondo?

00:02:08.000 I've seen one of your videos.

00:02:09.000 No, no, for real, for real.

00:02:11.000 You taught George St-Pierre how to correctly throw the spinning back kick.

00:02:15.000 Yeah.

00:02:16.000 You know what I mean?

00:02:16.000 But you at first showed him how to throw the side kick.

00:02:18.000 And I used to watch those videos over and over again.

00:02:22.000 And then it evolved when I seen Raymond Daniels perform the two-touch.

00:02:26.000 Oh, my God.

00:02:27.000 Yeah, he did that two-touch.

00:02:28.000 That's probably one of the biggest highlight reels in kickboxing history.

00:02:31.000 Big facts, right?

00:02:32.000 But I seen that.

00:02:33.000 I was like, man, that's dope because it's a level up from what you're showing, right?

00:02:36.000 So I used to perform that on the bag, on the heavy bag, all the time.

00:02:39.000 And people are like, man, what are you doing?

00:02:41.000 Like, whatever.

00:02:41.000 But I used to generate so much power when I used to balance, you know, my right foot on her, not my right, but my left foot because I would come in like a roundhouse kick because I'm a softball.

00:02:50.000 I would balance on the bag and then I would propel myself off the bag and I would spin.

00:02:53.000 And we used to make this hard pop like a shotgun, right?

00:02:57.000 And would bend the entire bag.

00:02:58.000 So I'm like, bro, I feel like so powerful like throwing this kick, you know what I mean?

00:03:01.000 But regardless, though, just seeing these people do this stuff and just learning from them and just imitating these moves, you know, years later, then I end up performing that kick.

00:03:10.000 You know who's got some of the best instructionals of that, of traditional kicks like sidekicks and turning sidekicks?

00:03:16.000 Michael Jai White.

00:03:17.000 I'm already hip.

00:03:18.000 I'm already hip.

00:03:19.000 Watch the thousand. 1.00

00:03:20.000 Michael Jai White has some shit. 1.00

00:03:22.000 Sharp technique. 1.00

00:03:23.000 Yeah, big facts, big facts.

00:03:23.000 And on top of that, even before him, Bill Superfoot Wallace.

00:03:27.000 Oh, yeah.

00:03:27.000 Come on now.

00:03:28.000 You know what I mean?

00:03:29.000 Well, he had the best hook kick ever.

00:03:31.000 Oh, my God.

00:03:32.000 His hook kick was incredible.

00:03:33.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:03:33.000 Because, you know, he only had one knee.

00:03:35.000 His knee was fucked up. 0.99

00:03:36.000 Yeah, big facts. 0.99

00:03:36.000 And that's why. 0.99

00:03:37.000 Because he used to do, like, judo.

00:03:39.000 You know, he used to do throws and stuff.

00:03:40.000 He couldn't do it anymore.

00:03:41.000 So he ended up transitioning just to kickboxing.

00:03:44.000 But, like, he taught himself.

00:03:45.000 How to just fight on that one side, you know, make yourself, you know, just like a line, hard to hit, you know, but he made his leg like a jab.

00:03:53.000 You know what I mean?

00:03:54.000 He would stick, guys, but he would hit with a roundhouse, like you said, hill hook kick, you know what I'm saying?

00:03:59.000 Or just like the spinning back kick as well, you know?

00:04:01.000 See if you can find a highlight of Bill's Superfoot Wallace.

00:04:04.000 I mean, it got plenty, man. 0.73

00:04:06.000 Because of the fact that he only used one leg, because he had one knee that was just really fucked up, so he couldn't kick with it. 0.92

00:04:11.000 So because he did everything off that one leg, His one leg had so much dexterity.

00:04:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:04:16.000 It's like that old school quote from Bruce Lee.

00:04:19.000 Yeah, that's one of his little instructional videos.

00:04:21.000 That's why I used to watch.

00:04:22.000 I used to watch stuff like this all the time, you know?

00:04:24.000 And it's cool just coming back to it.

00:04:26.000 And he was so fast, too, with it.

00:04:27.000 Like, it was hard to see.

00:04:29.000 Yeah, this is old school.

00:04:31.000 And he would joke around about, like, you know, the camera not being fast enough to see his feet, you know?

00:04:35.000 Yeah.

00:04:35.000 But he had the very best kicks off the front leg.

00:04:38.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

00:04:39.000 He's still getting after it.

00:04:40.000 Yeah, he's still getting after it.

00:04:41.000 I don't want to try to be funny, but I think my man's still alive.

00:04:44.000 Yeah, I think he is too.

00:04:45.000 He did commentary in the first UFCs.

00:04:47.000 Yes, he did, yeah.

00:04:48.000 In the very early days.

00:04:49.000 Yeah.

00:04:50.000 So he's still out there.

00:04:51.000 Look at that.

00:04:52.000 Yeah.

00:04:52.000 So this is just a year ago.

00:04:54.000 Yep, yep.

00:04:54.000 Good for him.

00:04:55.000 Yeah, man.

00:04:57.000 Well, see if you can find some of his fights because he knocked a lot of people out with those little kicks.

00:05:00.000 Yeah, just try to put like verses and it'll pop up on its own.

00:05:03.000 So like...

00:05:04.000 Yeah.

00:05:05.000 It was just so hard for people to deal with.

00:05:10.000 Oh, that was in A Force of One.

00:05:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:05:13.000 I think he fought this guy named Joe Lewis.

00:05:15.000 Yeah, yeah, Joe Lewis down there.

00:05:16.000 Yeah, watch that one right there. 0.77

00:05:17.000 Yeah, that's a good one.

00:05:18.000 So Joe Lewis, not the heavyweight boxer, but the heavyweight kickboxer was a legendary karate fighter.

00:05:24.000 Yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:05:25.000 This is a fun fight to watch.

00:05:27.000 And look at that, BOOM! That style with that front leg. 1.00

00:05:31.000 The thing about that style, though, I always wondered, like, how would those guys do against, like, a Muay Thai guy through leg kicks?

00:05:38.000 Because we saw that with, you know, with a lot of fighters that had that style once they encountered, like, Rick Rufus.

00:05:46.000 Once they encountered leg kicks, they got kind of fucked up until they realized how to deal with it and how to use the leg kicks. 0.59

00:05:52.000 Then Rick Rufus became an incredible leg kicker. 0.97

00:05:54.000 Well, I mean, perfect example.

00:05:56.000 So...

00:05:57.000 Peter Cunningham.

00:05:58.000 Yes.

00:05:58.000 So you know who Peter Cunningham is?

00:06:00.000 Oh, Superfoot.

00:06:01.000 Sugarfoot.

00:06:02.000 Not Superfoot, Sugarfoot.

00:06:04.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:04.000 But he fought Muay Thai guys than he used to whoop their head.

00:06:07.000 Yes, because he could throw leg kicks.

00:06:09.000 Yeah, he could throw leg kicks and he had hands.

00:06:11.000 Yes, he had everything.

00:06:13.000 Yeah, yeah, bro.

00:06:13.000 But that's like the beautiful thing about MMA is we're seeing all those techniques being incorporated.

00:06:17.000 Yeah.

00:06:18.000 Like a guy like you who can do all the other things, now you're learning jump spinning back kicks and all this other stuff.

00:06:23.000 See, I always assumed watching you fight that you had...

00:06:26.000 Some sort of a traditional martial arts background.

00:06:29.000 Because you throw so many sidekicks and they're so clean.

00:06:32.000 They're so sharp.

00:06:33.000 I assume...

00:06:34.000 I guess I can attribute that all from martial arts movies.

00:06:37.000 That's wild.

00:06:39.000 Literally all from martial arts.

00:06:40.000 People think it's a joke, but literally when I was a kid, you know...

00:06:44.000 Just growing up, you know what I mean?

00:06:45.000 My mom would raise me.

00:06:47.000 She was a single mother and stuff like that. 0.94

00:06:48.000 So she can only do so much, you know what I mean? 0.90

00:06:50.000 So I was on the TV all the time.

00:06:51.000 That's what raised me.

00:06:52.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:06:53.000 Just watching.

00:06:54.000 Just watching.

00:06:54.000 Big facts, you know?

00:06:55.000 Because I was around a lot of women, you know?

00:06:57.000 So when she needed help, I was with my godmother, Erica, and stuff like that.

00:07:01.000 And I was with my god sisters and stuff like that.

00:07:03.000 So there was a lot of women around. 1.00

00:07:05.000 So I was looking for male influences.

00:07:06.000 And the fastest way I could find it was just on TV. Wow.

00:07:09.000 You know what I mean?

00:07:10.000 So just looking at Bruce Lee, looking at Jackie Chan, looking like Michael Jai White, Donnie Yen, Tony Jai.

00:07:14.000 These are guys I'm like, oh man, I want to be like them.

00:07:16.000 You know what I mean?

00:07:17.000 It's amazing how many people got influenced to fighting and to traditional martial arts from movies.

00:07:23.000 Big facts, yeah.

00:07:24.000 Some of the greatest kickboxes will tell you who, Bruce Lee.

00:07:27.000 Oh yeah, Bruce Lee.

00:07:27.000 Bruce Lee is the one that got him into it.

00:07:29.000 It's the best salesperson ever is those movies.

00:07:32.000 Yeah, big facts.

00:07:32.000 I mean, you look at like the emergence of karate academies in the country after Bruce Lee movies, like through the roof.

00:07:39.000 Everybody wanted to learn.

00:07:41.000 Including Chuck Norris, you know?

00:07:42.000 Yes.

00:07:43.000 Yeah, including Chuck Norris.

00:07:44.000 So what was your first actual coaching in martial arts?

00:07:50.000 My first coaching, that was the gym at Finney's MMA. And how old were you then?

00:07:54.000 I was 18. I started as soon as I got out of high school, man, because school wasn't for me at the time, man.

00:08:00.000 I was not taking it seriously, but I just always wanted to be a part of martial arts when I was younger.

00:08:05.000 And I knew that wrestling was going to be a great foundation to start in.

00:08:10.000 So when I was in middle school, got into high school, whatever, I got into wrestling.

00:08:13.000 And then after that, after I graduated, went to Finney's MMA. Yeah.

00:08:16.000 So when you were wrestling in high school, were you thinking that you were doing this to prepare to fight?

00:08:21.000 Yeah.

00:08:22.000 Really?

00:08:22.000 Yeah.

00:08:23.000 Well, I mean, like low-key, but I knew that that's what I wanted to do, and it was the closest thing to a discipline, to a martial arts discipline, is wrestling.

00:08:29.000 That's the only thing.

00:08:30.000 And probably the most important thing.

00:08:32.000 I wasn't good at football, wasn't good at basketball, wasn't good at baseball, you know what I mean?

00:08:36.000 Couldn't catch water if I fell out of the boat, you know what I'm saying?

00:08:38.000 So my biggest thing was like, you know, I never really liked sports anyway.

00:08:41.000 It's just martial arts.

00:08:42.000 And the only thing that I could apply those skills to was wrestling, you know, because my mom didn't want to put me into like any karate.

00:08:48.000 All that stuff costs money, you know, at the end of the day, but wrestling was free.

00:08:51.000 And so when you first got into actual coaching, you already knew how to kick then, just from watching movies and shit. 0.87

00:08:59.000 Uh, somewhere. 0.64

00:09:01.000 I wouldn't say I actually knew how to kick, but, like, that's where, it's imitation, you know what I'm saying?

00:09:05.000 Life imitates art, right?

00:09:06.000 So that's my biggest thing.

00:09:08.000 It's just, like, I used to watch these guys, and you gotta realize, like, these guys that's playing, or actors, are real martial artists.

00:09:13.000 Oh, yeah.

00:09:14.000 You know what I mean?

00:09:14.000 So they're using real techniques at the end of the day.

00:09:17.000 So I just get to look at that and use it and just apply it.

00:09:21.000 You know, I love, like, one of my favorite movies to watch is Blood and Bone.

00:09:24.000 You know, with Michael John White, Kimbo Slice, you know?

00:09:27.000 And it's a lot of techniques that he uses that I'm like, oh, that'd be dope to, you know, pull off.

00:09:31.000 You know, so, yeah, I would say, like, that was my start into martial arts was the movies.

00:09:36.000 But my real, like, actual training started when I was 18. And so when you were 18, how long was it before you had your first fight?

00:09:44.000 Right.

00:09:44.000 It actually didn't take long.

00:09:46.000 I think it was, like, a little bit of, like, uh...

00:09:49.000 Nine months, ten months into training, and I had my first fight.

00:09:52.000 Was it an MMA fight?

00:09:54.000 Yeah, yeah, it was an MMA fight.

00:09:55.000 Yeah, so in Missouri, in St. Louis, whatever.

00:09:57.000 So as amateurs, like, we didn't need the headgear.

00:09:59.000 We didn't need to wear, like, shin guards and nothing.

00:10:01.000 So you fought like a pro.

00:10:02.000 You know, the only thing that you couldn't do was, like, heel hooks and knee to the head.

00:10:06.000 No heel hooks?

00:10:07.000 No heel hooks, yeah. 0.95

00:10:08.000 Interesting.

00:10:08.000 Yeah, no heel hooks.

00:10:09.000 But all the other submissions were okay?

00:10:11.000 Yeah, and no elbows.

00:10:12.000 Yeah, every other submission was cool.

00:10:13.000 No elbows, no knees, no cuts, you know, and then no heel hooks.

00:10:16.000 That was the only rule.

00:10:18.000 So just a few limitations.

00:10:20.000 Yeah.

00:10:21.000 So do they have a comprehensive amateur program there?

00:10:24.000 Or was it balanced?

00:10:26.000 Were you fighting someone that had experience?

00:10:28.000 Or were you just fighting another person?

00:10:29.000 No, I was just fighting another person, man.

00:10:30.000 Like, I don't think it was balanced yet.

00:10:32.000 You know, even in 2012, you know, everybody had the showdown.

00:10:36.000 You know, so like, you know, the promoter, you know, me putting fights together and everything.

00:10:40.000 But people were still trying to figure out actually like the gym wise or how to, you know, Develop a fighter, if that makes sense.

00:10:46.000 Because I feel like still to this day that a lot of MMA gyms are still not doing it right.

00:10:50.000 But that's a whole other conversation for a whole other day.

00:10:52.000 So a lot of these guys that was in amateur fighting just wanted to fight just to get the feel for it.

00:10:56.000 And that was the type of guys I was fighting almost at the amateur level.

00:11:00.000 Well, we had dinner that one night.

00:11:02.000 We were talking about the difference between going to a big gym and the way you're doing it at a smaller gym.

00:11:09.000 And there's some interesting conversation to be had about that because you made some really good points about when you're in a smaller gym, you get individualized attention and you're not getting lost in the crowd.

00:11:20.000 Exactly.

00:11:21.000 And that there's so much information out there already with all the videos.

00:11:25.000 We're good to go.

00:11:32.000 We're good to go.

00:11:43.000 You know what I mean?

00:11:43.000 And you need that type of discipline just to keep doing the same thing because that's how you actually work on your tools.

00:11:49.000 You work on the basics over and over again.

00:11:51.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:11:52.000 Then it becomes instinct.

00:11:54.000 So even though we have so much applied knowledge out there and so many things that we can do, sometimes it's like the basic knowledge that we have.

00:12:00.000 And if we work with a smaller gym, we're able to focus on that a little bit more.

00:12:04.000 You know as a team, you know instead of everybody just doing their own thing cuz I don't could nobody say like big gyms Everybody's just doing their own thing everybody working with who they working with, you know They not even working with the coach unless they got a name and they got a big fight coming up That's the thing right cuz that's what I hear.

00:12:18.000 It's like you get two arguments one of them is iron sharpens iron So if you're around like if you go to ATT if you're an American top team World-class facility giant place dormitories World-class guys coming from all over the world.

00:12:32.000 But when I've talked to fighters who train there, they say, look, man, you get in there with some Russian dude you never met before and he's trying to kill you.

00:12:38.000 Yeah, big fact.

00:12:39.000 And that there's no supervision.

00:12:41.000 Like, if you're not a world-class guy, if you're not a top-of-the-food-chain guy that has a lot of money riding on him, They'll put you in there with everybody who's in class.

00:12:49.000 And you're going to have to sing or swim.

00:12:51.000 You know what I mean?

00:12:51.000 You have to develop and become that individual in order for them to work with you.

00:12:55.000 But they're not going to develop you.

00:12:57.000 So a lot of guys get it twisted when they go to these big gyms and they think that they're going to be elevated because of the guys that they're around.

00:13:03.000 But at the same time, like you said, people are just trying to beat you up.

00:13:26.000 Right.

00:13:27.000 Let's say, you know, certain pros, high-level pros, you know what I mean?

00:13:30.000 Not saying that a high-level pro can't work with an amateur, but certain amateurs shouldn't be working with certain pros.

00:13:36.000 Like, they should be developed to a certain point where they're showing that they know enough, and now they can move up and work with certain individuals.

00:13:42.000 You know what I mean?

00:13:43.000 So I get fed to the wolves.

00:13:44.000 Exactly.

00:13:45.000 You know what I mean?

00:13:45.000 Because all it's going to do is hurt the little young amateur.

00:13:48.000 And then sometimes amateurs be doing the wrong thing and be going too hard and could end up cutting, you know what I'm saying, a high-level pro.

00:13:54.000 And they might not be making a lot of money, but that's somebody that's a potential prospect.

00:13:58.000 Yes.

00:13:59.000 But now they ain't got a fight coming up because they was going with this amateur because they ain't had nobody else to go with.

00:14:03.000 Right.

00:14:03.000 So it's a lot of things that play a part into having a big gym and a small gym.

00:14:08.000 But I just love having a small gym just because you get that actual attention that you need.

00:14:12.000 Well, it sounds like your coach is a fantastic coach.

00:14:14.000 Oh, he's one of the best in the world.

00:14:15.000 What's his name?

00:14:16.000 Joaquin Mercilago.

00:14:17.000 So we got the same first name.

00:14:18.000 That's crazy.

00:14:19.000 That's an odd name.

00:14:21.000 There's not a lot of those Joaquins out there.

00:14:23.000 So when you're...

00:14:24.000 What's the name of the gym?

00:14:26.000 Mercy.

00:14:28.000 And when you're working with him, it's specifically with him and a bunch of other people?

00:14:34.000 So he's the head coach for MMA-wise.

00:14:39.000 And then we have Nick Simmons.

00:14:41.000 So the gym itself is called Salt Academy.

00:14:44.000 It's a wrestling academy, so he has a lot of high-level prospects, high school wrestlers, middle school wrestlers, some of the best wrestlers in the nation that come to him to learn wrestling.

00:14:55.000 So his name is Nick Simmons.

00:14:56.000 But I work with his older brother, Andy.

00:14:59.000 No, actually, younger brother, Andy Simmons.

00:15:01.000 That's who I work with.

00:15:02.000 And he's more of my size and stuff like that, so I get a lot of high-level wrestling from him because both of them are Hall of Famers at Michigan State, which is pretty dope.

00:15:14.000 Nice revenue, you know what I'm saying?

00:15:15.000 Not revenue, but a great career within wrestling.

00:15:20.000 Went undefeated, you know what I'm saying, for the longest time.

00:15:22.000 I think over 200, 300 bouts or something like that, undefeated.

00:15:26.000 And then I got a conditioning coach at the HBI Human Performance Institute, Justin Hartley.

00:15:31.000 He was an NFL player.

00:15:32.000 That's where we get all our conditioning work in.

00:15:35.000 So, like, we don't have many, many guys, you know, but at the end of the day, we have enough to work with.

00:15:40.000 We also got a guy that works with our jiu-jitsu who works at Magic named Brendan Berry, who does all our jiu-jitsu, but the crazy thing about him, he's not a black belt, he's not a high-level jiu-jitsu guy.

00:15:48.000 He's somebody that's just passionate about jiu-jitsu, who watches it every day, you know, and he shows us stuff that actually works, but he's somebody that's committed to it, you know, and who watches it every day, and that's who we learn jiu-jitsu from.

00:16:01.000 Well, that was the case a long time ago.

00:16:03.000 There was a lot of guys that were like blue belts and purple belts that were opening up schools because they didn't have a real good school around them, and they knew that they could teach at least a base of fundamentals, and if they were really excited and passionate about jiu-jitsu, they would grow with their students.

00:16:19.000 Exactly, exactly, and that's exactly what he's doing with us, you know, because I can see Brandon going very far, you know, and being an instructor, going far into jiu-jitsu, you know, but just somebody that, you know, Not looking for anything out of it, you know.

00:16:32.000 He never asked me for any money or nothing like that, but he shows me a lot of things that helped me win the fight against Albert Duraya, you know.

00:16:39.000 How to get the stand-up, you know, how to get my guard back, you know.

00:16:41.000 And, you know, it's just crazy because in that fight, a lot of people had me pick to lose, you know.

00:16:47.000 And thinking like, okay, I'll be dry as chains as this big gym, you know, at Extreme Couture and stuff like that.

00:16:52.000 He has all the tools.

00:16:53.000 He has all the resources.

00:16:54.000 And then I go back to Michigan.

00:16:55.000 I don't have much.

00:16:56.000 But I got the people that's able to work on the things that we need to work on.

00:17:00.000 And we do it repeatedly until I get it down.

00:17:02.000 And then we're able to show that in the fight, you know?

00:17:05.000 And I feel like that's why I'm saying, like, we're actually showing what works within this game, you know?

00:17:11.000 Because if you got the right group of people that you're working with that can help advance you in your career and stuff like that, then that's what you need to mesh up with.

00:17:18.000 But a lot of fighters feel like they need to move on from the gym that they come from, that they was developing well at, to go to a bigger gym, you know?

00:17:25.000 And that's not the way to go always.

00:17:27.000 Not always, right?

00:17:28.000 It really does depend upon the environment, who the coach is, what kind of relationship we have with them, but it seems like you've got a good one set up.

00:17:35.000 So how do you balance out how much grappling you do versus how much striking you do?

00:17:42.000 It seems like you prefer striking.

00:17:45.000 That seems like your level of expertise.

00:17:47.000 I don't want to say level of expertise, but that's where the money comes in.

00:17:51.000 That's where the money comes in?

00:17:52.000 That's where the money comes in.

00:17:53.000 I just want to always be excited.

00:17:55.000 But now we're trying to switch the gears into just becoming a winner.

00:17:59.000 Because now we got money in the bank.

00:18:02.000 My biggest thing is when I went out for my first UFC fight with Kevin Holland, I just chose to stand on the feet.

00:18:08.000 I could have took Kevin Holland down.

00:18:10.000 I could have put myself in a better position to win, but I decided just to strike.

00:18:14.000 I fell on that.

00:18:16.000 He beat me in the third round and he got the advantage on me.

00:18:20.000 At the end of the day, I was like, I want to make these fights exciting and fan appealing.

00:18:25.000 Which, even with the loss I had against Kevin Holland, people still wanted to watch me fight.

00:18:28.000 Right.

00:18:28.000 You know?

00:18:29.000 And then coming into my second fight with Ampa, Kosaka and I, you know, still chose.

00:18:33.000 I mean, I'm mixing a little bit of takedown.

00:18:35.000 But I let them back up.

00:18:36.000 I was like, man, I want to keep this on the feet.

00:18:38.000 I want to keep going.

00:18:38.000 And then, of course, we did what we did.

00:18:40.000 So my whole course is just going through my career.

00:18:43.000 I just wanted to strike with these guys and get good knockouts so I can get a third check. 0.84

00:18:47.000 So you are thinking that way.

00:18:49.000 You're thinking I want to make this very exciting.

00:18:51.000 That's how I was thinking.

00:18:51.000 And now you're thinking I want to be a champion.

00:18:53.000 Yes, sir.

00:18:55.000 Yeah, that's the shift, right?

00:18:57.000 The pivot.

00:18:58.000 And sometimes guys get criticized for that.

00:18:59.000 And I'm opposed to that criticism.

00:19:02.000 People are saying, oh, they're fighting boring.

00:19:04.000 And I'm like, I don't know what you think is boring.

00:19:06.000 I think baseball is boring.

00:19:08.000 I don't think fighting is ever boring.

00:19:10.000 Because there's always a potential for something crazy to happen.

00:19:13.000 But the intelligent fighters know how to win.

00:19:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:19:17.000 I mean, like Floyd Mayweather.

00:19:18.000 Like, for me, when I watch him, and obviously, you got some of the best defensive fighter is him.

00:19:24.000 But when you watch him fight, you can call it more than if you want to.

00:19:26.000 But when you really pay attention in the things that he's doing and how he's, you know, moving around fighters and how he's evading these punches and, you know, able to counter fighters, like, bro, that's very intriguing.

00:19:36.000 Masterful.

00:19:37.000 Masterful.

00:19:37.000 And then now we talk about, you know, Izzy.

00:19:39.000 You know, it's the same way.

00:19:40.000 Same thing.

00:19:41.000 Same exact thing.

00:19:42.000 That was my argument about the Jared Cannoneer fight.

00:19:44.000 They were like, oh, he should have engaged more.

00:19:46.000 I'm like, dude, he's fighting Jared Cannoneer.

00:19:48.000 You can't engage all the time recklessly with that dude.

00:19:51.000 That dude's a powerhouse.

00:19:53.000 And that's the thing.

00:19:53.000 I'm not mad at Izzy for what he's done because that's what he keeps doing, right?

00:19:57.000 In order to retain his title.

00:19:58.000 And I hope he keeps doing it.

00:19:59.000 I hope he does it against Alex Furrier.

00:20:00.000 I pray.

00:20:01.000 I pray.

00:20:02.000 I want to talk to you about that fight.

00:20:03.000 Big facts.

00:20:03.000 Because it's kind of your division, but maybe not in the future.

00:20:06.000 Uh-uh.

00:20:07.000 What are you going to do?

00:20:08.000 Have you decided?

00:20:09.000 Yeah, I've already decided.

00:20:10.000 I'm going down to 170. Yes.

00:20:12.000 I'm about to get that.

00:20:13.000 But you're going to have this fight with Chris Curtis?

00:20:15.000 Yes, Chris Curtis.

00:20:15.000 And that's at 85. That's at 85. So they wanted me to have one more fight at 185. They was like, well, if you want to make this good little money, re-sign at 185, fight CC, and then we can talk about you moving down to 170. Are they opposed to you moving down to 170?

00:20:28.000 I don't think they opposed, but they only seen me at 185. Right.

00:20:31.000 You know what I mean?

00:20:32.000 So they like, well, first off, because there's so many different things because people haven't seen me fight at 170, even though the majority of my fights are welterweight fights, you know?

00:20:39.000 Really?

00:20:39.000 Yes, sir.

00:20:40.000 Yeah, so the majority of my career since I was 18, since I've been an amateur, everything, and going into pro, I was a 175. But dude, you're pretty fucking swole. 1.00

00:20:48.000 Yeah, I am pretty swole. 0.99

00:20:49.000 But, you know, don't let these muscles...

00:20:51.000 Deceive, you know what I'm saying?

00:20:52.000 So, I mean, I think Michael John White talked about it before, too.

00:20:54.000 Like, when he's bulking, you know what I mean?

00:20:57.000 Like, a lot of people think he's bigger then.

00:20:59.000 Well, he is bigger, but they think he's smaller when they see him.

00:21:02.000 But when he's cut up, you know what I'm saying, and he's clean, that's when they think he's his biggest because they see all the muscle and it's so defined and everything.

00:21:08.000 But he's actually lighter.

00:21:09.000 But he's actually lighter, you know?

00:21:10.000 And it's the same thing with me, you know?

00:21:11.000 So it's just that perception that people see, like, oh, they think I'm a lot bigger than what I really am.

00:21:16.000 Actually, in that Nasher Dean fight, I walked into that fight at 185. Did you really?

00:21:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:20.000 At 185. I actually cut too much damn weight.

00:21:24.000 No way. 0.96

00:21:24.000 I was walking around at 181. No. 0.96

00:21:27.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:28.000 Wow.

00:21:28.000 Even the PI guys, they can tell you.

00:21:30.000 So what do you weigh right now?

00:21:31.000 Yeah, I'm a little heavy right now.

00:21:32.000 I've been eating good.

00:21:34.000 Texas barbecue.

00:21:35.000 Yeah, big fact.

00:21:35.000 But I never get up to 200. So I'm probably like 195. I never get up to 200. Interesting.

00:21:40.000 That's very light for 85. Yeah.

00:21:42.000 Exactly.

00:21:42.000 Especially when you look at some of those giant dudes.

00:21:44.000 Yeah, I mean, all of them.

00:21:45.000 Shootin' Ash Dean, Alex Pereira, cuttin' from 240. You know what I'm sayin'?

00:21:48.000 Jared Canineer used to be a heavyweight.

00:21:50.000 Oh yeah, Jared Canineer's as big as it gets.

00:21:52.000 You know what I'm sayin'?

00:21:52.000 Like, come on now.

00:21:53.000 He's as big as it gets at 85. Well, that was what I was sayin' about Izzy.

00:21:55.000 Like, the way he fought him was the perfect way to fight him.

00:21:57.000 Oh, he was smart.

00:21:58.000 You gotta fight Jared Kennedy like that.

00:22:00.000 The only person that I give any slack to is Jared Kennedy himself.

00:22:03.000 Yes.

00:22:04.000 Because he had the best opportunity, right?

00:22:06.000 And I feel like even if he didn't win, he still could have brought the fight a little bit better.

00:22:10.000 Because Izzy doesn't mind fighting, you know what I mean? 0.99

00:22:13.000 But he wants you to bring the fight to him.

00:22:15.000 But you see Jared Kennedy trying to clinch up against him, trying to do tactics I ain't never seen him do before.

00:22:19.000 What happened to the killer gorilla?

00:22:21.000 Sure.

00:22:21.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:22:22.000 What happened to the rocks that you keep in your pocket?

00:22:24.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:22:24.000 Like, all these little different things that give you, you know, mental fortitude, but you fought scared that night.

00:22:28.000 I don't care.

00:22:29.000 Nobody say Jared Kennedy fought scared that night.

00:22:31.000 Really?

00:22:31.000 They fought scared?

00:22:32.000 I never seen him fight.

00:22:33.000 I mean, when he fought Jack or Madison, he ran through him.

00:22:36.000 But that's a different fighter.

00:22:38.000 It's like, when you fight Izzy, I think you're fighting a supercomputer.

00:22:43.000 When that dude's standing in front of you and he's throwing all those feints and movements.

00:22:46.000 We can debate all day, but my thing is, if I was to fight Izzy, you gotta put that pressure on him, like Kevin Gaston did.

00:22:54.000 And now, of course, Izzy could have gotten better from that fight, which he more likely did.

00:22:58.000 He certainly did, but still, you've never seen him fight that type of fighter again.

00:23:01.000 You know, with Kevin Gaslam been in the southpaw, a shorter fighter, an inside fighter, you know, putting pressure on him, he never fought that type of individual again, you know?

00:23:10.000 And I feel like my striking and my stature fits like a Kevin Gaslam, you know?

00:23:15.000 And I feel like my footwork is a little better than Kevin Gaslam as well, so I wouldn't just be going straight in.

00:23:20.000 I would hit different angles on Izzy. 0.99

00:23:21.000 That's how you beat Izzy, I feel like.

00:23:23.000 It's taking it out of a kickboxing range, you know what I mean?

00:23:26.000 Putting it in a boxing range and fighting inside, you know?

00:23:28.000 And then guess what?

00:23:29.000 Mixing in the takedowns, you know?

00:23:30.000 But guess what?

00:23:31.000 It's kind of hard to take down Izzy.

00:23:33.000 But at the same time, like even with Robert Whittaker, a lot of people say he probably won that fight, but I feel like he didn't do enough though, you know?

00:23:39.000 There's so many little debates that you can put up behind it, but my thing is I feel like Izzy is able to be finished in certain positions that he put himself in because there's a lot of things that he do Because of his reach, he leans back a lot to try to counter away from punches, right?

00:23:55.000 But if you can find that angle and you can see the holes opening there because his body is there, his chin is available, you know, you can find that punch.

00:24:01.000 And I felt like Jared Kananir could have exposed a lot of that if he fought the way that he fights a lot of other guys, you know?

00:24:08.000 You just have to run the risk of getting knocked out.

00:24:10.000 There it is.

00:24:10.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:24:11.000 If you're scared to get knocked out, then you probably shouldn't be in this game.

00:24:14.000 Right or wrong?

00:24:15.000 Yeah, but I think he probably felt like he'll find that opportunity somewhere in the fight.

00:24:20.000 So it's like, don't get knocked out while you're trying to find that opportunity.

00:24:24.000 Yeah, but at the same time, like, it's scary though.

00:24:27.000 I know what you're saying.

00:24:28.000 You know, it's scary.

00:24:29.000 So my biggest thing is just trying to figure out how...

00:24:31.000 Mike Tyson, one of my favorite fighters, like, he always put pressures on guys.

00:24:35.000 Like, you could knock out Mike if he came towards you, but he was evasive, you know?

00:24:39.000 He moving his head the whole We're good to go.

00:24:58.000 But if you could have just worked on just keeping your hands up and working inside and moving your angles and stuff, you probably could have did a little better on the second end, which he did, taking him down and trying to, but you trying to game plan on how to take the belt.

00:25:09.000 Like, bro, you got to beat that individual.

00:25:11.000 And I don't know how you feel about that, but my biggest thing is just like, you can't just like barely beat a champion and be like, all right, it's my belt now, you know?

00:25:19.000 That's just me and my opinion.

00:25:20.000 And that's how it's always been.

00:25:21.000 I kind of see that, but whoever wins the fight, wins the fight.

00:25:25.000 If someone wins a clear-cut, unanimous decision for a title, that's still winning.

00:25:30.000 Yeah, where have we seen that, man?

00:25:32.000 Like, you know, with Dominic Reyes and Jon Jones.

00:25:34.000 Valentina, I feel like Valentina lost that last fight.

00:25:36.000 Like, low-key, uh...

00:25:37.000 Very close fight.

00:25:39.000 Very close fight.

00:25:40.000 But debatable that she lost.

00:25:41.000 Yeah, debatable.

00:25:42.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:25:42.000 But at the same time...

00:25:43.000 Well, debatable Robert Whittaker and Izzy.

00:25:45.000 That's debatable, too.

00:25:47.000 But the thing is, though, forget debate.

00:25:48.000 Y'all gotta take that thing.

00:25:49.000 You gotta take it.

00:25:50.000 You gotta take it.

00:25:51.000 I feel that.

00:25:51.000 I completely appreciate that.

00:25:53.000 I think Robert Whittaker was a way better fighter in the second fight.

00:25:56.000 I think losing to Izzy just reignited that fire inside of him.

00:26:00.000 I think fighters, and you can speak to this better than me, but I think fighters, they go in sort of cycles.

00:26:06.000 Sometimes they're just not totally focused and motivated, or maybe they're overwhelmed by pressure.

00:26:14.000 There's so many different things, because you don't never know what's going on outside in their lives and stuff.

00:26:20.000 But for Robert Whitaker, he went into the fight as a winner.

00:26:24.000 I remember Michael Bisbee saying something like, Robert Whitaker didn't look as confident in the second round, but My thing is, though, like, Robert Whitaker, getting up to that title fight, he's been winning in decisions, right?

00:26:36.000 So he got used to just beating guys and taking them to a point where he's just outpointing them, for real.

00:26:42.000 You know, even with the Jerry Cannoneer, when he broke Jerry Cannoneer's forearm, It ain't like he was hunting for the finish.

00:26:47.000 He's just out pointing, just touching, just touching guys, you know?

00:26:50.000 Right.

00:26:50.000 You think a man with one arm, you'd probably be able to get him out of there.

00:26:53.000 Did he know he had one arm, though?

00:26:55.000 He didn't know his arm was broken.

00:26:56.000 I ain't say he know it, but at the same time, if you apply that type of pressure and you put it on somebody, you know what I'm saying?

00:27:02.000 Like, you can only do so much with a broken arm.

00:27:04.000 Shout out to Jerry Cannon for even fighting like that.

00:27:07.000 Right?

00:27:07.000 Yeah.

00:27:07.000 So I was hoping that same dog would come out in the Izzy fight.

00:27:10.000 But regardless, we're skipping points.

00:27:13.000 I know what you're saying, but it's armchair quarterbacking, right?

00:27:17.000 In fact, so we...

00:27:20.000 With Robert Whitaker, you know what I'm saying?

00:27:22.000 Like, I felt like, in my mind, he just got used to just coasting for a lot of his fights because it wasn't close.

00:27:27.000 Like, he would win every round.

00:27:29.000 When he fought, what, Kevin Gaslam?

00:27:30.000 When he fought Darren Till?

00:27:32.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:27:32.000 Like, he was just beating these guys by decision and fairly easy.

00:27:35.000 And Jerry Cananier, fairly easy.

00:27:37.000 And then when he got to Izzy, He thought he could win the same type of way, you know?

00:27:42.000 Well, I think he's also, I think the Izzy fight, it's just my opinion, but I think he was suffering from those fights with Yoel Romero, too. 0.99

00:27:51.000 When you fight Yoel Romero, that motherfucker takes something from you. 0.99

00:27:56.000 That's like fighting a brick wall. 1.00

00:27:58.000 I can see that.

00:27:59.000 He's different.

00:28:00.000 I can see that.

00:28:00.000 He's so different.

00:28:01.000 And those fights were horrendous.

00:28:04.000 Remember, he got knocked down and hurt.

00:28:05.000 Yeah, yeah, and got back up.

00:28:06.000 Like a G, you know. 1.00

00:28:08.000 He tried to do the same little tactic that Yoel did, you know what I'm saying, when he jacked his knee up.

00:28:12.000 Side kick to the knee.

00:28:12.000 Yeah.

00:28:13.000 Well, Yoel fucked his knee up in that first fight. 0.94

00:28:15.000 What do you think about that side kick to the knee? 0.97

00:28:17.000 That's controversial, right?

00:28:19.000 I mean, it's legal.

00:28:20.000 It's legal.

00:28:20.000 Yeah.

00:28:20.000 I mean, I haven't done it, you know what I'm saying, to anybody.

00:28:23.000 I haven't seen the opportunity to do it.

00:28:24.000 But if I see somebody with a straight leg, you know, I would never do it if somebody has a strong stance.

00:28:29.000 It wouldn't make any sense to do it then.

00:28:31.000 But if I see somebody has, like a Sean Strickland, it's a perfect example.

00:28:35.000 Right, stand straight up.

00:28:37.000 Yeah, I'm killing that knee. 0.82

00:28:38.000 Yeah. 0.75

00:28:39.000 Yeah, big facts.

00:28:40.000 Well, Jon Jones is the master at that.

00:28:41.000 Yeah.

00:28:42.000 All that length.

00:28:43.000 Big facts.

00:28:44.000 He's the best at using distance.

00:28:46.000 No one's better at using distance.

00:28:48.000 Jon's the best.

00:28:48.000 Yeah, he is the best because of his attributes, you know what I mean?

00:28:51.000 Because like the 84, you know what I'm saying?

00:28:53.000 Sure.

00:28:53.000 Like, that's crazy.

00:28:54.000 And then on top of that, the legs.

00:28:56.000 I don't know, but your legs is longer, you know?

00:28:58.000 So with having all that reach, I feel like that's what...

00:29:01.000 But a lot of people are like, oh, he's like one of the best defensive or best footwork.

00:29:05.000 I'm like, nah, not at all.

00:29:06.000 But it's not a footwork thing.

00:29:07.000 It's using his attributes.

00:29:08.000 Yeah, but that's what some people say.

00:29:10.000 Mighty Mouse has the best footwork.

00:29:10.000 Footwork, big fan.

00:29:11.000 Hold on now, hold on now, hold on now.

00:29:13.000 You know, I got some good footwork too.

00:29:14.000 You got very good footwork, but come on, man.

00:29:16.000 Mighty Mouse is off the charts.

00:29:18.000 Oh no, that's my top one.

00:29:19.000 Mighty Mouse would come in like this and then all of a sudden he'd be over here.

00:29:22.000 No, big facts, big facts.

00:29:23.000 You know, I gotta put myself in the mix.

00:29:25.000 I understand.

00:29:26.000 I love Mighty Mouse, man.

00:29:28.000 Shout out to him, man.

00:29:29.000 He definitely on my pound for pound.

00:29:32.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:29:32.000 Oh my God.

00:29:33.000 Of all time.

00:29:34.000 And he's a guy who talked about having all the stuff in your personal life in order.

00:29:38.000 Last time he was here, he's like, you know, a big part of my success is having a stable family life, having a wife, not having any personal problems, no crazy people in your life, no bullshit that drags you down, which is a problem with Yeah, I mean, because it can apply,

00:29:54.000 you know, negative energy into your life and into your training, you know what I mean?

00:29:57.000 You're not able to focus on the things that's really important, as in, you know, being able to provide for your family, because this is how we eat, you know?

00:30:04.000 And if you got to focus on other stuff and try to get your life in order, like a Jon Jones, and that's a crazy thing, Jon Jones be going through crazy stuff.

00:30:11.000 The craziest!

00:30:12.000 And still able to maintain on the highest level.

00:30:14.000 And still the goal.

00:30:15.000 Crazy!

00:30:16.000 Remember when he said to Daniel Cormier, I fought you and beat you after I did coke. 0.59

00:30:20.000 Like, that's wild.

00:30:21.000 And I was like, oh no!

00:30:23.000 As you know, Daniel's in there training with Cain Velasquez and drinking only water.

00:30:27.000 Man, and that's wild to me that Jon Jones, but I feel like he probably been doing it for so long that it became natural for him.

00:30:34.000 Because obviously he was a champion at the age of 23 years old.

00:30:38.000 And he probably was always doing this little crazy stuff.

00:30:40.000 I mean, Kobe Covington was talking about it when he was roommates with him.

00:30:43.000 He was always a wild boy, always loved to party.

00:30:45.000 So it was just something that he came accustomed to and a part of.

00:30:48.000 But sometimes I'd be like, brother, you ain't getting tired of that?

00:30:50.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:30:51.000 You ain't getting wore out?

00:30:52.000 You would think so.

00:30:53.000 I mean, my man, how old is John now?

00:30:55.000 John's in his 30s.

00:30:56.000 32?

00:30:57.000 I think he's a little older than that.

00:30:59.000 How old is John?

00:31:00.000 Is he 34?

00:31:01.000 34. I mean, John won the title, the youngest ever.

00:31:04.000 This is the time to come back, I feel like, for John.

00:31:06.000 If he waits any longer, I feel like he needs to stay away.

00:31:09.000 Well, according to John, the holdup is Stipe.

00:31:12.000 Stipe did not want to sign for the fight for December 10th.

00:31:16.000 And I don't know what that is, whether they didn't offer Stipe enough money.

00:31:20.000 I don't know what's going on, so I don't want to speak out of line.

00:31:23.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:23.000 But I think they're targeting when Francis' knee is recovered.

00:31:28.000 Francis and Ghanu, John Jones fight.

00:31:30.000 Oh, okay.

00:31:31.000 So they're getting rid of the Stipe.

00:31:32.000 Because I feel like before he fights, for instance, he needs to fight somebody like a Stipe or a Tua Vasa, you know what I mean?

00:31:38.000 Somebody like that just really shows that you belong at heavyweight before you just fight for it.

00:31:42.000 I would say that for anybody else.

00:31:44.000 For anybody else, I would say that.

00:31:45.000 But when you're talking about the greatest light heavyweight, maybe the greatest mixed martial artist of all time, let him fight at heavyweight for the title.

00:31:52.000 I would have said that probably two years ago.

00:31:54.000 But it's time, you know what I'm saying?

00:31:56.000 But he's training.

00:31:57.000 The thing about John is, John's wild, but he's also smart.

00:32:01.000 One of the things that John's doing is putting on so much weight. 0.96

00:32:04.000 He's fucking huge now. 0.97

00:32:06.000 I mean, John's like 255, jacked, all filled out. 1.00

00:32:11.000 Big fat.

00:32:11.000 If he can maintain that endurance and keep that kind of pace that he had at light heavyweight at 205, and if you look at the strength and conditioning work that he's doing, man, he's doing it the right way.

00:32:21.000 It's nasty.

00:32:22.000 He's building up slowly.

00:32:23.000 But this ain't lifting weights, though.

00:32:24.000 It's not lifting weights.

00:32:25.000 You already know.

00:32:26.000 It's not lifting weights.

00:32:26.000 To be honest with you, we don't see what goes on.

00:32:29.000 And I know he's training hard.

00:32:31.000 Well, first off, he did change the team, obviously, right?

00:32:33.000 He got kicked out of...

00:32:35.000 Jason, I don't know the story behind that.

00:32:37.000 I don't know the story either.

00:32:38.000 Yeah, so my biggest thing.

00:32:39.000 So like, alright, who you training with now?

00:32:41.000 Who you sparring with?

00:32:41.000 Like, who you working with?

00:32:42.000 Like, you know, those are the things that I want to see.

00:32:44.000 I don't want to just see you in the weight room.

00:32:46.000 Is he doing something with Henry Cejudo?

00:32:48.000 I don't know.

00:32:49.000 I have no clue.

00:32:50.000 I think he was working with him for a minute.

00:32:52.000 A lot of guys working with him.

00:32:53.000 I like what Henry's doing.

00:32:55.000 I like what Henry's doing.

00:32:57.000 That's a focused man.

00:32:59.000 Big facts, man.

00:32:59.000 He's a focused man.

00:33:00.000 And he's keeping himself involved, for sure.

00:33:02.000 Even though he's not fighting, he wants to come back, for sure.

00:33:05.000 Well, they're talking about him fighting Aljamain Sterling for the title, which I hope takes place.

00:33:10.000 Yeah, I hope it takes place as well.

00:33:11.000 That's a very good fight.

00:33:12.000 I like that fight a lot.

00:33:14.000 For him to come right back straight to the title, makes sense.

00:33:17.000 Two-division champion, Olympic gold medalist, one of the greats.

00:33:21.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:33:22.000 And actually, that was the original weight class that Henry came from, right?

00:33:25.000 Yep.

00:33:25.000 So it was 125 and 135. Yeah, well, he won at 25, but he also won at 35. I feel like him coming back at 35 to fight Aljo is a very legit fight.

00:33:37.000 I like that fight a lot.

00:33:39.000 To be honest with you, I think Al Jermaine would take that one. 1.00

00:33:41.000 Al Jermaine's a motherfucker, dude. 0.99

00:33:43.000 I think he'd take that one low-key, bro. 1.00

00:33:44.000 And right now, Al Jermaine's a champion, you know what I'm saying?

00:33:47.000 Like when a guy becomes a champion. 0.99

00:33:49.000 Yeah, like the way he fucked over TJ Dillashaw, he beat the shit out of that dude. 0.99

00:33:53.000 And I know TJ's shoulder was fucked up, but dude. 0.99

00:33:56.000 The way Aljamain fought Pyotr Jan in the second fight, he's a champion now.

00:34:00.000 There's a thing that happens to a guy when he comes into his own and you go, you know what, I can't wait to see him again because I think he's going to be even better.

00:34:07.000 That's how I feel about Aljo right now.

00:34:08.000 It's like you realize the confidence is there.

00:34:12.000 And when you talk about, for 135, the physique that Aljamain has, the type of shape that he's in, Oh, yeah.

00:34:19.000 I'm like, bro, he ain't looking like other 135. He's the perfect 135. It's like the perfect amount of weight cutting.

00:34:25.000 Like he's got his diet dialed in. 1.00

00:34:27.000 He comes out shredded as fuck. 0.99

00:34:29.000 But he also has great cardio. 1.00

00:34:31.000 Big fat.

00:34:31.000 And he's long, too.

00:34:32.000 Yeah.

00:34:32.000 For 35, he's big, dude.

00:34:35.000 Big fat.

00:34:35.000 I mean, he's walking around 176 when I saw him.

00:34:37.000 That's wild.

00:34:38.000 That's wild.

00:34:39.000 You know what I mean?

00:34:39.000 And that's the thing.

00:34:40.000 That's why I know I'll be cool at getting down to 170 because I ain't got to cut a massive amount of weight.

00:34:44.000 And definitely when I clean up my diet, the only probably...

00:34:47.000 The biggest I'd probably cut is like 20. Well, if you were walking around at 181 before you fought at 85, that seems easy for you to make 170. You know what I'm saying?

00:34:57.000 But that's the thing.

00:34:58.000 I was walking around at 182, 185. You know what I'm saying?

00:35:01.000 Like when I was like...

00:35:06.000 21. How long have I been walking around?

00:35:09.000 Since I was 18, going up to 23 years old, I was walking around that way.

00:35:13.000 I didn't actually start to fill out until I didn't get any fights at 170. It makes sense that they want to see you Cut the weight, though.

00:35:22.000 Because, like, you see, there's so many problems.

00:35:24.000 Like, Hamzat's the biggest problem, right? 1.00

00:35:25.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:26.000 Trying to get down to 170 and the dude misses it by eight pounds, which is fucked up the whole card.

00:35:31.000 Yeah, man.

00:35:32.000 Now, hold on, okay.

00:35:33.000 That's a problem.

00:35:33.000 And I love to talk about this, too, because I don't think the UFC set this up like no crazy stuff.

00:35:38.000 I ain't trying to be on no British jobs.

00:35:39.000 Nah.

00:35:40.000 I ain't trying to be on no British.

00:35:41.000 But low-key, it just worked out too well.

00:35:44.000 It did work out too well, but that's how things happen sometimes.

00:35:46.000 You think so?

00:35:47.000 Yeah, it's my whole life.

00:35:48.000 It's your whole life?

00:35:49.000 Yeah.

00:35:50.000 Alright, but I get it.

00:35:52.000 Yeah, trust me.

00:35:52.000 Things just work out sometimes.

00:35:54.000 Yeah, big facts.

00:35:54.000 Okay.

00:35:54.000 That was a situation where it was the best case scenario in terms of options.

00:35:59.000 Because Kevin Holland had fought at 185 before, and he was available, and he was willing, and then they got in a squabble backstage, and so they said, alright, let's just make this at 180, and Kevin's like, good.

00:36:11.000 Because Kevin was already supposed to fight Daniel Rodriguez at 180. All that made sense.

00:36:15.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:36:15.000 The guy who got fucked over is the leech. 0.99

00:36:17.000 But the thing is, though, in... 0.99

00:36:19.000 That's the thing.

00:36:19.000 It really didn't make no sense because why are they fighting that one?

00:36:22.000 And then why did they just put it on the card last minute?

00:36:25.000 Well, they had no other options.

00:36:27.000 The only other option was cancel the card.

00:36:29.000 What is the option?

00:36:30.000 Why would they have to cancel it?

00:36:32.000 No, no, no.

00:36:32.000 I'm not talking about why even put Kevin Holland versus D-Rod.

00:36:38.000 Why even put that fight on the card and why is it catch weight?

00:36:40.000 Kevin Holler can make the weight.

00:36:42.000 D-Rod has always fought at 170, so why is he already making up the mind, oh, I want to fight at 180?

00:36:47.000 Well, they had made that arrangement far in advance.

00:36:50.000 It was a last-minute fight that they put on.

00:36:52.000 Yeah, but I mean, it wasn't like the day of.

00:36:55.000 Daniel Rodriguez and Kevin Holland.

00:36:57.000 All I'm saying is just, for it to be at 180 and them to make that decision to make it at 180, that's all I'm talking about.

00:37:03.000 Because then also, Tony Ferguson versus G. Liang, that fight didn't make no sense.

00:37:07.000 When they made the fight, that fight didn't make no sense to me.

00:37:09.000 Well, that fight made sense to me.

00:37:11.000 Alright, go ahead.

00:37:11.000 It made sense to me because Tony Ferguson's coming off a knockout loss to Chandler.

00:37:15.000 Yeah.

00:37:15.000 And then...

00:37:16.000 Moving up to 170?

00:37:18.000 Yeah, but...

00:37:19.000 The thing about it is, I think as you get older, I think it becomes more and more difficult for you to make the weight.

00:37:25.000 You feel weakened by the weight cut.

00:37:27.000 Daniel Rodriguez, the reason why that made sense, if you look how big he looked against Lee Jingleon, and when I mean big, I mean like carrying body fat.

00:37:34.000 Yeah, yeah, he chubby.

00:37:35.000 D-Rod ain't never come in shape.

00:37:37.000 He's in shape, but he's just not ripped.

00:37:40.000 You know, he's just got that Cain Velasquez style body, you know, where they never look shredded, but they're always in shape.

00:37:46.000 And I think that he was probably heavy.

00:37:48.000 And he said, look, I'll take the fight, but I'm heavy right now.

00:37:51.000 I'm not going to make 170. I'll kill myself. 0.98

00:37:53.000 So let's do it at 180. And Kevin's like, fine, I fight at 185 all the time. 0.86

00:37:57.000 We're good.

00:37:58.000 Right, right, right.

00:37:58.000 So it's got all the pieces of a conspiracy theory.

00:38:02.000 Yeah, man, it really do.

00:38:03.000 But there's logic behind it.

00:38:04.000 Yeah, big fact.

00:38:04.000 It makes sense.

00:38:05.000 Because the Hamzat and Diaz make sense only because, like, UFC don't want Diaz to come on, you know what I'm saying?

00:38:10.000 And be able to shine.

00:38:11.000 But it sort of didn't make sense, though, right?

00:38:13.000 Because a lot of people are like, Jesus Christ, Hamzat's so big. 0.99

00:38:16.000 Diaz has fought at 155. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:18.000 Hamzat's coming in. 1.00

00:38:19.000 This motherfucker's like... 1.00

00:38:20.000 It's an easy kill for Hamzat! 1.00

00:38:21.000 Yeah, it's a big...

00:38:22.000 Easy money, you know?

00:38:24.000 And then also you help develop, even though Hamza still got a crazy following, but it's still not the American base, you know what I mean?

00:38:29.000 So it helps build his name.

00:38:31.000 So that fight did make sense for me right there.

00:38:33.000 But then it's like the whole switch up.

00:38:35.000 I'm like, bro, that's too perfect because then you have Kevin Holland and Hamza, they had their whole little dispute, right?

00:38:40.000 Yes.

00:38:41.000 And you already got Kevin Holland who didn't have to cut no weight.

00:38:43.000 And that's the thing about even Kevin.

00:38:45.000 Shout out to him.

00:38:45.000 He wasn't cutting weight for real at 185. You know what I'm saying?

00:38:49.000 Like, my man was just walking around, you know, smoking, doing this little thing, and like walking to the cage in a fight at 185. Yeah.

00:38:54.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:38:55.000 So, to have that fight at 180, and then tell Hans, well, I wouldn't say tell Hans, but Hans said himself that the doctor told him to stop cutting weight.

00:39:01.000 Hans was like, oh, well, I can make it.

00:39:04.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:39:05.000 So I don't even think it's on the fighters, but I feel like the UFC was able to mess this up a little too well.

00:39:10.000 Well, let me tell you because I know.

00:39:12.000 Yeah, you know.

00:39:12.000 I'm just guessing.

00:39:13.000 I talked to Dana when the shit went down. 1.00

00:39:15.000 He's like, this is a fucking mess. 1.00

00:39:18.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:39:19.000 He goes, I don't know what we're going to do. 1.00

00:39:20.000 So they were in chaos.

00:39:22.000 And then they masterminded.

00:39:24.000 They got together and they brainstormed.

00:39:26.000 They said, okay, what if we do this and this and this thing?

00:39:28.000 And it turned out, like we were talking about it.

00:39:30.000 It's a better card.

00:39:31.000 It was way better.

00:39:33.000 Ferguson versus Diaz.

00:39:34.000 A competitive matchup.

00:39:35.000 That made sense.

00:39:36.000 You know, Hamzat versus Kevin Holland.

00:39:38.000 That makes sense.

00:39:39.000 I'm not arguing that.

00:39:40.000 It all made sense.

00:39:42.000 That's how it should have been in the first place. 0.98

00:39:43.000 The only thing that did make sense to me, I think lead Jean Leon got fucked. 0.99

00:39:45.000 Oh, he got played. 0.98

00:39:46.000 He even said it, too.

00:39:49.000 But D-Rod is still a 170 fighter, though.

00:39:53.000 But he do cut a lot of weight, though.

00:39:55.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:39:56.000 And my thing is, though, but G-Liang, he had to put in that extra work in order to get that weight down to 170. Because G-Liang is a ripped guy, you know what I mean?

00:40:03.000 So I know it's hard to even try to get to the 170 weight class for himself.

00:40:08.000 So, you know, he did have a little disadvantage.

00:40:10.000 I felt like Gigliang won that fight, too, bro.

00:40:12.000 I felt like he did enough to win.

00:40:13.000 He was most certainly a very close fight.

00:40:17.000 But then, you know, and shout out to Neil Magny, who just finished D-Rod, because Neil Magny is one of the most underappreciated guys in the UFC. Yeah, low-key.

00:40:25.000 That guy has cardio.

00:40:27.000 The pace that dude puts on people, he's such a workman.

00:40:31.000 He just comes in and just constant volume, long reach.

00:40:35.000 I don't know.

00:40:36.000 I feel like Neil Mack, he does a good job of getting guys to fight his style.

00:40:40.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:40:40.000 He takes his time with guys, and guys take that pace, but then don't realize, okay, oh, time is getting ate up right now.

00:40:46.000 And Neil Mackie does a good job of tying guys up.

00:40:49.000 Just using that long job.

00:40:50.000 It's boring.

00:40:50.000 I ain't gonna lie to you.

00:40:51.000 It's slow, but even though when you say, like, oh, it's not boring, it's masterful, but there's a lot of things I be seeing Neil Mackie do, and I be, I ain't gonna lie to you, I be falling asleep. 0.99

00:40:58.000 Because you like exciting shit. 0.99

00:40:59.000 You're a wild man. 1.00

00:41:00.000 I am a wild man.

00:41:01.000 But I don't know.

00:41:02.000 Well, speaking of Neil Magny, you know, and I'm glad he got a win because you never know, you know, with the UFC with, you know, losses and stuff like that.

00:41:07.000 But that Shabcock kid, though, the undefeated, you know what I'm saying?

00:41:10.000 He demolished Neil Magny, bro.

00:41:13.000 He's good.

00:41:14.000 And what, he got him out the first round?

00:41:15.000 Yeah, that guy's good.

00:41:17.000 He's good.

00:41:18.000 He's under the radar.

00:41:19.000 With mainstream people, they do not know how to shop.

00:41:22.000 That's the real Hamzai killer to me. 1.00

00:41:24.000 He's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

00:41:25.000 With 16 finishes, 17 finishes. 1.00

00:41:27.000 And he does everything.

00:41:28.000 He can do everything.

00:41:29.000 He's a striker, grappler, everything.

00:41:32.000 I think he got a fight coming up against Jeff Neal.

00:41:35.000 That's a banger.

00:41:36.000 That's a banger.

00:41:37.000 I like Jeff Neal now.

00:41:38.000 Jeff Neal's back.

00:41:39.000 Yeah, yeah, big facts, big facts. 0.98

00:41:41.000 You know, he went through a period of time where he was dealing with his own bullshit and, you know, wasn't really totally focused. 0.97

00:41:46.000 I mean, almost, if I'm not mistaken, almost died or something. 0.99

00:41:49.000 You know, he was in the hospital.

00:41:50.000 Yes, he had a really bad infection.

00:41:52.000 Bad infection?

00:41:53.000 Yeah, real bad.

00:41:54.000 So it took him out for a little minute, you know. 0.99

00:41:56.000 And then recovering from that was difficult, and then he had some personal life shit. 0.99

00:41:59.000 Big fact. 0.98

00:42:00.000 But now he's back.

00:42:01.000 He looks like the Jeff. 1.00

00:42:02.000 Like, when Jeff Neal fought Mike Perry, I was like, this motherfucker's a dark horse. 0.99

00:42:06.000 Almost done. 0.99

00:42:07.000 Because he's got timing, man.

00:42:08.000 His timing.

00:42:09.000 When Jeff Neal's on, he's one of the best guys in the division.

00:42:13.000 I can agree with that.

00:42:14.000 And definitely what he did to Vicente Luque was masterful.

00:42:17.000 And I was telling a lot of guys, watch out for that because just how Vicente Luque, he strikes.

00:42:23.000 And he's a powerful guy.

00:42:24.000 Don't get it twisted.

00:42:25.000 A lot of knockouts.

00:42:25.000 But he just keeps his head straight up.

00:42:27.000 Takes a lot of damage.

00:42:28.000 Takes a lot of punishment.

00:42:29.000 But if you got somebody got decent footwork, good combinations that they put together, which Jeff Neal does have, you know, you seem like, I mean, just pick them apart, just with boxing alone, you know?

00:42:38.000 And a lot of those guys with those Dutch styles, you know what I mean?

00:42:40.000 I feel like, man, they just be getting touched too much.

00:42:42.000 It's a hard style.

00:42:43.000 It's a hard style, you know what I mean?

00:42:44.000 I mean, you could deliver some bangers, but that's somebody standing right in front of you, and Jeff Neal wasn't doing that for him.

00:42:49.000 Yeah, he masterfully moved around and picked his shots.

00:42:54.000 That was big.

00:42:55.000 The division is wild.

00:42:56.000 All divisions are wild right now in the UFC, but I feel like 170 in particular.

00:43:01.000 And I feel like the only thing that's missing from 170 is the personality part.

00:43:05.000 You got the Kobe Covington, and now we got Kevin Holland.

00:43:09.000 I think?

00:43:14.000 I think?

00:43:17.000 I think?

00:43:33.000 170 division is missing.

00:43:35.000 Well, Masvidal.

00:43:36.000 Masvidal's overrunning.

00:43:39.000 Masvidal, number 11 in the world now.

00:43:41.000 Come on, bro.

00:43:41.000 He eating, but I feel like Masvidal, even though he a personality, he a journeyman, man.

00:43:48.000 I ain't trying to be...

00:43:49.000 It is what it is. 1.00

00:43:50.000 Masvidal's still dangerous as fuck. 1.00

00:43:52.000 Boy, I'll take that fight. 0.99

00:43:53.000 If I can get that fight, I'll love that fight.

00:43:55.000 You might be able to get that fight.

00:43:56.000 I mean, you think so, Joe?

00:43:58.000 I might not.

00:43:58.000 I mean, I'm on your show.

00:44:00.000 You win with Chris Curtis?

00:44:01.000 That ain't no if. 1.00

00:44:02.000 I'm gonna knock that fool out. 1.00

00:44:03.000 Chris Curtis is a bad motherfucker. 1.00

00:44:04.000 He is, bro. 1.00

00:44:05.000 He is.

00:44:05.000 That's a really good fight for you, too.

00:44:07.000 Oh, it's a great fight for me.

00:44:08.000 But you can't stand right in front of that man.

00:44:10.000 So when he fought Phil Halls, right?

00:44:12.000 Yes. 1.00

00:44:12.000 Phil Halls was beating his ass. 1.00

00:44:14.000 You know, putting the jab on him, you know what I'm saying? 1.00

00:44:16.000 Hit across, like, level changing, you know, on him.

00:44:19.000 And that's the thing about Chris Curtis.

00:44:21.000 He's able to just, you know, shrug off a couple of those shots, you know what I mean?

00:44:24.000 And just be patient and just wait.

00:44:26.000 But when Phil Halls got comfortable and just, like, you know, feel like he's just flowing, that's when he got caught.

00:44:31.000 Boom.

00:44:31.000 And took that one shot, and then it was over with.

00:44:33.000 Chris Curtis is one of those never-say-die guys.

00:44:36.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:44:38.000 He's always there.

00:44:39.000 He's always there.

00:44:40.000 But I love it stylistically with you, because if your style of fighting...

00:44:44.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:44.000 Tell you something, in your last fight, even though you lost, that third round, you showed why people love you.

00:44:50.000 You came out with guns!

00:44:52.000 Yeah, man.

00:44:53.000 Well, I went into that fight with the wrong mentality.

00:44:56.000 The same way I came out in the third, I should have came out in the first and the second.

00:45:00.000 Because I was hoping and I was praying because I was, you know, nitpicking on a lot of stuff, you know what I mean?

00:45:04.000 I was just talking about where he's from, you know, being Russian, but not being a Frenchman.

00:45:08.000 So, like, you ain't got a real home at the end of the day and people love me more than you out here in Paris and I'm getting more love and they don't even know who you are.

00:45:16.000 Just little things.

00:45:17.000 I was talking about eating up Nassadine cuisine.

00:45:20.000 Just picking on him the whole time.

00:45:23.000 But regardless though, that first round I was hoping that he was going to engage a little bit more.

00:45:27.000 But because of that size and because of that length that these guys have, they will only fight me at bay.

00:45:32.000 Which is smart family.

00:45:34.000 Intelligent, right?

00:45:35.000 Why try to expose yourself and then pressure too hard where I can catch you?

00:45:39.000 But I was hoping that he would come in with a little bit more emotion.

00:45:42.000 But he didn't.

00:45:43.000 He kept poised. 0.99

00:45:44.000 So you were fucking with him, hoping that he would get out of character. 0.99

00:45:47.000 Yeah, exactly, man. 0.99

00:45:48.000 But he did his job.

00:45:49.000 But at the end of the day, when Coach said, you know what I'm saying, we're definitely losing. 1.00

00:45:53.000 We had to pick that shit up in the third round. 0.99

00:45:54.000 I said, say less. 1.00

00:45:55.000 So I was willing to get knocked out in order to go knock him out.

00:45:58.000 That's the only difference.

00:45:59.000 That third round, you emptied the gas tank.

00:46:01.000 I had to. 1.00

00:46:01.000 That was impressive as fuck. 1.00

00:46:03.000 I had to, yeah. 0.99

00:46:03.000 And I'm surprised he survived that knee. 0.99

00:46:05.000 You know what I'm saying? 0.97

00:46:06.000 If you need a hit on him, man.

00:46:07.000 So that's why I'm thinking, like, bro, maybe fighting at my more appropriate weight class, you know?

00:46:12.000 It's like George St. Pierre, like, you know, moving up to 185, but he never stayed there because at the end of the day, he already knew that these guys would be big.

00:46:19.000 Even if he's better as a fighter, these athletes are just different now, you know what I mean?

00:46:24.000 And anything that you're giving up, whether it's size, length, strength, like, these all play a part, you know, when you're messing with some of the best people in the world.

00:46:30.000 Yeah, most certainly I think 170 is a much better weight class for you.

00:46:34.000 Yeah.

00:46:35.000 Yeah, in every way.

00:46:36.000 And especially if you're really walking around at 181 sometimes.

00:46:39.000 So that's what I was.

00:46:41.000 I accidentally cut down because I was just chilling.

00:46:44.000 And I was eating whatever I wanted in Paris.

00:46:46.000 I was enjoying my whole time there.

00:46:48.000 So I was eating before waiting.

00:46:50.000 You know what I mean?

00:46:51.000 Fighters can't say that.

00:46:52.000 You know what I mean?

00:46:52.000 That's nuts.

00:46:53.000 I was at the restaurant.

00:46:54.000 Yeah.

00:46:57.000 Just chilling.

00:46:59.000 My biggest thing is I'm not afraid to fight guys that's bigger.

00:47:05.000 I know that I'm giving up some type of advantage for them because of the attributes and stuff, but at the same time my mentality is that I'm willing to fight and brawl with anybody that stands in front of me.

00:47:17.000 You know, because when I started off with MMA, that's all I used to work with was bigger guys.

00:47:20.000 And sometimes I was like, oh man, I can actually take the advantage because I'm faster and my footwork is there.

00:47:25.000 You know what I mean?

00:47:25.000 Or I'm just better and skill set wise, you know, because you already know like the heavier the weight class, you know, the less skills.

00:47:32.000 Smaller weight class, the more skills.

00:47:34.000 You know what I mean?

00:47:35.000 Flyweight division got some of the best fighters in the world.

00:47:37.000 Do you think that's the case in the 170s and 185s?

00:47:41.000 Because I don't think that's the case.

00:47:42.000 I mean, structurally, when you see...

00:47:45.000 Maybe heavyweight.

00:47:47.000 But even at 185, you still got a lot of guys that's not that good, but they're just powerful.

00:47:51.000 You know what I mean?

00:47:52.000 But I would just put a great example.

00:47:54.000 You see a lot more strikers in the 185 division, but in 170, what do you see?

00:47:59.000 More grapplers.

00:48:00.000 And at the end of the day, in my humble opinion, MMA is still structured for grappling.

00:48:05.000 It's still structured for jiu-jitsu, wrestling, judo, all that other stuff because at the end of the day, you got to grab, you got to clench.

00:48:11.000 So I feel like the better grappler is always going to win in MMA. That's just my opinion.

00:48:17.000 It's most of the time.

00:48:18.000 Yeah, it's most of the time.

00:48:19.000 Not every time, but like...

00:48:20.000 Leon Edwards and Kamaru Usman.

00:48:22.000 Yeah, that's barely.

00:48:23.000 Come on now.

00:48:23.000 That was a minute later.

00:48:24.000 Barely.

00:48:25.000 Barely, yeah.

00:48:25.000 But still, it barely doesn't mean anything when you win the world title by head kick knockout.

00:48:31.000 It's like Ben Ashton versus Jorge Malsudal.

00:48:34.000 It's a great situation where a flying knee you pop them with, but if they fought again, that probably would never happen.

00:48:41.000 I think there's a bunch of factors there.

00:48:43.000 First of all, you're dealing with a Ben Askren that...

00:48:45.000 Ben Askren, this is all common knowledge now. 0.96

00:48:48.000 He had a fucked up hit by the time he got to the UFC. Big fact, big fact. 0.98

00:48:51.000 He was already blown out.

00:48:51.000 Came in too late.

00:48:52.000 Yeah, he came in too late.

00:48:53.000 But you've seen him with Douglas Lima, Andre, you know, like when he fought those guys, you know what I mean?

00:48:58.000 And those are great MMA fighters.

00:48:59.000 Like Andre, I forget his last name.

00:49:00.000 Kariskovs.

00:49:01.000 But he destroyed them dudes.

00:49:04.000 We're just wrestling alone.

00:49:06.000 Habib is a great example to me again because shout out to Michael Johnson from St. Louis.

00:49:11.000 He actually went to the same high school too as well.

00:49:13.000 We got a little crazy story with that.

00:49:16.000 He was the only person who really hurt Habib and could have had the actual opportunity to beat Habib.

00:49:21.000 But Habib said what?

00:49:23.000 I'm going to take you down and keep you down.

00:49:25.000 So I feel like the majority of grapplers or the better grappler is always going to be the better striker.

00:49:30.000 I think it's the most important skill in MMA. Because the grappler has the ability to dictate whether the fight stays up or goes to the ground.

00:49:37.000 That's why when a guy like Bo Nickel gets into the MMA world, everybody's like, oh shit. 0.99

00:49:41.000 Big facts. 0.99

00:49:42.000 Because he's just such an accelerated wrestler.

00:49:44.000 But at the same time, it still levels to it, right?

00:49:46.000 Sure.

00:49:47.000 Because Aaron Pico, I think, is a great example because they rushed him too fast.

00:49:51.000 Because he actually fought a dude named Zach Freeman, who's from Missouri as well.

00:49:55.000 And experienced dudes.

00:49:57.000 Zach Freeman was the most talented, but hard-working dude.

00:50:00.000 You know what I mean?

00:50:01.000 And he was a vet, so he had multiple fights in the game.

00:50:03.000 And Aaron Pico, even though he's a what?

00:50:05.000 Olympic wrestler or something like that and then, you know, golden gloves, boxing, all this stuff, which is cool.

00:50:10.000 He didn't have the experience in the MMA cage, which is a little bit different, you know?

00:50:14.000 And I feel like if you don't develop these guys' skills and experience first, they can get caught.

00:50:18.000 Even though they got all the skill sets in the world, they still just gonna get caught, you know, by somebody that's already been in that, you know, on that level.

00:50:24.000 Did you see Aaron's last fight where he blew out his shoulder?

00:50:27.000 Well, he blew out his shoulder?

00:50:28.000 No, I didn't say that.

00:50:29.000 Yeah, he had the same thing that happened with TJ. He dislocated his shoulder and then had to stop the fight.

00:50:34.000 He threw a left hook and it just popped out.

00:50:37.000 It just popped out.

00:50:37.000 And I'll be wondering where these little injuries be coming from like that, you know?

00:50:40.000 Well, some of these wrestlers, their shoulders are so fucked. 0.99

00:50:43.000 By the time they get into MMA, they have all these tears and shit and they're kind of barely holding on anyway. 0.99

00:50:48.000 Right, right, right, right. 0.82

00:50:49.000 I mean, that's the thing, though, because it might be happening, like, in training.

00:50:53.000 So if it's happening in training, like, you got to do something about, like, to keep it or prevent it from happening, you know?

00:50:58.000 Because he was staying active then, right?

00:51:00.000 Aaron Pico?

00:51:01.000 Yeah.

00:51:02.000 So here it is.

00:51:03.000 They're trying to pull it out.

00:51:05.000 Oh, they in the corner doing it?

00:51:07.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:07.000 Look, they were trying to pull it out.

00:51:09.000 I don't know.

00:51:10.000 There's like a technique to pulling someone's shoulder.

00:51:13.000 No, no, no.

00:51:14.000 Ain't no technique to that.

00:51:15.000 He's just pulling that thing.

00:51:16.000 I don't think that's how it goes.

00:51:17.000 He's trying to pull his arm off.

00:51:18.000 Yeah, I don't think that's how it goes.

00:51:20.000 I think there's a way to do it.

00:51:22.000 I don't necessarily think this guy is doing it correctly.

00:51:25.000 Maybe I'm wrong.

00:51:26.000 He's trying.

00:51:28.000 Isn't there a way?

00:51:29.000 Isn't there a way you're supposed to do it?

00:51:30.000 I don't know if it's a weapon and Mel Gibson slamming his shoulder in the wall.

00:51:34.000 That's right, it's a weapon.

00:51:36.000 But it's a common thing where guys blow their shoulders out.

00:51:41.000 Have you had any surgeries or any major injuries?

00:51:44.000 Yeah, the only time I had surgery was when I got into the USC. Yeah, I had no injuries throughout the fight until I started fighting on the best promotion on the planet, which I'm fighting the best fighters.

00:51:53.000 What injury did you get?

00:51:55.000 ACL tear, meniscus tear, as well as the orbital fracture in the Antonio Arroyo fight.

00:52:04.000 Yeah, that was bad, because I was seeing two of him.

00:52:06.000 And I was coming off a loss of Alessio.

00:52:09.000 So that's who tore my meniscus when he had kicked me with that roundhouse kick because I was ducking.

00:52:14.000 I was trying to box too much, you know, kicking me outside my head.

00:52:17.000 But the way I fell, I ended up tearing, you know what I'm saying, my meniscus.

00:52:20.000 And then after that fight that I had with him, getting that surgery, I went into the fight with Antonio Arroyo.

00:52:25.000 I won that fight, but he left, you know, a good little mark right underneath my eye, but found out that he had broke my orbital.

00:52:32.000 So did you have to have surgery in your orbital?

00:52:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:52:34.000 So they had to replace it, like, with a little rod.

00:52:36.000 Yeah.

00:52:36.000 Oh, wow.

00:52:37.000 So, like, the base of my eye itself, like, it was gone, so, like, my eye was just floating there.

00:52:44.000 So I could have had a lazy eye, you know what I'm saying?

00:52:45.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:52:46.000 So they was like, yeah, we got to replace this, you know, so you can have that wall back underneath that foundation almost.

00:52:50.000 What does that feel?

00:52:51.000 Can you feel it when you touch your face?

00:52:52.000 No, no, I can't.

00:52:52.000 I mean, yeah, I can feel it a little bit, like, um...

00:52:55.000 Like, the soft part that you have here.

00:52:57.000 So I can feel, like, right here where it's a little harder.

00:52:59.000 Oh, wow.

00:53:00.000 And they said if it was metal, then I couldn't be able to compete.

00:53:02.000 So they put, like, a plastic one.

00:53:03.000 And I was asking, like, is that going to affect it?

00:53:05.000 Is it easy to break?

00:53:06.000 They were like, nah. 1.00

00:53:07.000 It's hard to reach type shit. 1.00

00:53:08.000 Oh, okay. 0.99

00:53:09.000 Actually, it makes it a lot stronger because the bone is so, like, fragile.

00:53:12.000 So if it was metal, you wouldn't be able to fight because it would open up the cuts or something?

00:53:16.000 I don't know.

00:53:17.000 That's what they said.

00:53:17.000 Like, anything that's metal in your body, you won't be able to compete.

00:53:20.000 You know?

00:53:21.000 I think that was coming from the UFC had hit them up and told them that.

00:53:25.000 Don't quote me, but that's what I heard the doctor tell him.

00:53:28.000 Maybe it's just in the face.

00:53:30.000 Did you see, who was that dude who fought Canelo?

00:53:35.000 Billy Joe Saunders.

00:53:36.000 He got his whole face caved in.

00:53:39.000 Cheekbone.

00:53:39.000 Everything.

00:53:40.000 It was like up here, here.

00:53:41.000 Which one you think is worse?

00:53:42.000 That one or the Sage Norcutt?

00:53:45.000 When he got his...

00:53:46.000 Sage was a bad one.

00:53:48.000 That was a bad one.

00:53:49.000 And then you got, who else got their face case?

00:53:52.000 And it's sad because it's multiples.

00:53:54.000 Cyborg with MVP. That was probably the worst ever.

00:53:57.000 Right, the skull.

00:53:58.000 Gave his forehead in.

00:53:59.000 That's scary because it's supposed to be the hardest part of your head.

00:54:02.000 The hardest part where everybody breaks their hands.

00:54:05.000 And they caved in like you got hit with a missile.

00:54:08.000 Man, that was nasty.

00:54:09.000 That was the wildest flying knee. 1.00

00:54:11.000 Michael Vennon Page is a bad motherfucker, dude. 1.00

00:54:13.000 He's so wild. 1.00

00:54:14.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:15.000 I remember I wanted to fight him when I was in Bellator.

00:54:16.000 Just to get my name out there, for real, for real.

00:54:18.000 But I just wanted to challenge myself against somebody like that because he had that style of traditional martial arts. 0.89

00:54:24.000 Like a porn.

00:54:25.000 Point fighting.

00:54:25.000 Point fighting, you know?

00:54:26.000 But he was really knocking dudes out, though.

00:54:29.000 Oh my god, yeah.

00:54:30.000 Look at it.

00:54:31.000 That's the fracture.

00:54:32.000 This is the sideboard?

00:54:32.000 Yeah.

00:54:33.000 Look at all the plates he has in his fucking head. 1.00

00:54:35.000 And that was it for him, man. 1.00

00:54:37.000 Oh yeah, that's over with.

00:54:38.000 He said he was going to keep fighting after that, and the doctor was like, no.

00:54:42.000 Unfortunately, you can't, big fella.

00:54:44.000 Play that again.

00:54:45.000 Watch this.

00:54:46.000 Here it is.

00:54:47.000 And you can hear it, too, if you can play something that's nasty when you hear the pop.

00:54:53.000 Like you just heard it break.

00:54:56.000 Just heard it cave in.

00:54:57.000 And a dude is tough as Cyborg.

00:54:59.000 You see him writhing in pain like that.

00:55:01.000 You would have seen me kicking my legs, boy.

00:55:03.000 I would have been out there swimming.

00:55:06.000 And then look at MVP like Pokemon.

00:55:10.000 He even caught Pikachu or something.

00:55:12.000 That's crazy. 0.99

00:55:13.000 He's a showman for sure, but he got his ass whooped by Mike Perry though. 1.00

00:55:17.000 Yeah, that was wild. 0.99

00:55:19.000 I was shocked.

00:55:19.000 That's a whole different type of style of fight.

00:55:21.000 Yeah.

00:55:21.000 You know, I'm sorry.

00:55:23.000 Like, you know, you thinking because you got gloves on or you take the gloves off and, like, it's still going to be a type of fight.

00:55:27.000 But, bro, like, that's bone on bone.

00:55:29.000 Yeah.

00:55:29.000 You know what I mean?

00:55:30.000 And, like, that takes a different type of beast, like, to fight bare knuckle boxing.

00:55:33.000 Well, Mike Perry's...

00:55:39.000 I've always thought like it's kind of weird that the elbows aren't covered by a pad your shins aren't covered by a pad your foots not covered by your heels like they did it old-school like y'all gotta start right in front of each other yeah and just get the bank yeah I mean so I mean I like bare knuckle boxes very interesting but not for me no definitely not for me man yeah if you come with a big check Nah.

00:56:03.000 Hesitation.

00:56:03.000 A little bit of hesitation.

00:56:04.000 I mean, because I'm thinking about that check.

00:56:07.000 You know, but at the same time, though, it's just like, man, your health is everything.

00:56:10.000 And people come out looking different with bare knuckle boxing.

00:56:13.000 You know, Pauly Malignaggi, you know what I'm saying, versus Artem. 1.00

00:56:16.000 That shit was crazy. 1.00

00:56:18.000 Paige Van Gantt. 1.00

00:56:20.000 You get rid of your money.

00:56:22.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

00:56:22.000 You're a pretty ass girl. 1.00

00:56:23.000 You don't need to be in bare knuckle boxing. 0.99

00:56:25.000 Chris Lieben, he fought in bare knuckle boxing and it looked like he got hit with a hatchet.

00:56:30.000 His whole face was busted. 0.97

00:56:31.000 Nasty, man. 0.95

00:56:32.000 And then you just get cut up because of the knuckles. 0.99

00:56:33.000 You know what I mean?

00:56:34.000 So you just got all these little splits down in your eye.

00:56:36.000 Yeah, I'm sorry, bro.

00:56:37.000 It's just too much.

00:56:38.000 But do you think that it's...

00:56:40.000 Is there an argument for doing that at MMA for eliminating gloves?

00:56:44.000 Because if you don't have pads on your knees and your shins and your elbows and all the other weapons that you hit people with, why do you have pads on your knuckles?

00:56:54.000 Well, that's good, but it's the break of the hand, you know?

00:56:58.000 Right, but doesn't that make it unrealistic to be able to just wildly punch people?

00:57:01.000 I didn't know they were trying to make it realistic.

00:57:02.000 I thought they were trying to make it a sport.

00:57:03.000 It is a sport, but it's a sport of fighting.

00:57:06.000 And if you have no padding on all these other areas...

00:57:09.000 So let me show you King of the Streets.

00:57:11.000 This is real fighting right here.

00:57:12.000 So it's K-O-T-S, King of the Streets. 1.00

00:57:18.000 Who was fighting?

00:57:19.000 No, I don't know the name of these fighters.

00:57:21.000 I'm just about to show you this.

00:57:22.000 It's a promotion.

00:57:24.000 This is real fighting at its element.

00:57:26.000 You know what I mean?

00:57:27.000 Because they fight outside.

00:57:28.000 They fight in a warehouse.

00:57:30.000 And as well, they don't have any bare knuckle, like, nothing.

00:57:34.000 This is real fighting.

00:57:36.000 UFC can't do this.

00:57:37.000 Underground Fight Club.

00:57:38.000 Yes.

00:57:39.000 Everybody got a face mask, everything like that, because they don't want to get exposed out here in just case a murder happened.

00:57:44.000 Is that a mat?

00:57:46.000 Like, what are they fighting on?

00:57:47.000 They're not fighting on a mat.

00:57:47.000 That's concrete.

00:57:48.000 No.

00:57:49.000 That's cement.

00:57:49.000 Really?

00:57:50.000 That is cement.

00:57:50.000 Yes, sir.

00:57:51.000 And they're actually pretty popular right now.

00:57:55.000 With sneakers on.

00:57:56.000 Well, yeah, that's a real fight.

00:57:57.000 Wow.

00:57:58.000 Sneakers on concrete.

00:57:59.000 But, bro, you get KO'd and you fall back. 1.00

00:58:01.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:58:02.000 And they got many. 1.00

00:58:03.000 They got many KOs.

00:58:04.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:58:05.000 If you get body slammed on concrete, that is fucking bad. 0.99

00:58:08.000 So one dude got rocked with a left hook, right? 0.99

00:58:10.000 Fell down.

00:58:11.000 And as he fell down, the dude kicked him right in his face.

00:58:14.000 And my man just sees it out.

00:58:15.000 Oh my god.

00:58:16.000 Now this is brutal.

00:58:17.000 But this is the closest thing that you get to a real fight because this is a real fight.

00:58:21.000 It's a real fight and the only thing that's covered is they're wearing sneakers.

00:58:25.000 Why are they wearing sneakers though?

00:58:26.000 I feel like you shouldn't wear it.

00:58:28.000 First of all, you shouldn't be wearing running shoes.

00:58:29.000 Oh, this dude is just getting piled right.

00:58:31.000 So you take your shoes off, Joe, before a fight?

00:58:35.000 No, I wouldn't, but I wouldn't wear those.

00:58:38.000 I wouldn't wear those shoes.

00:58:40.000 I would wear wrestling shoes.

00:58:41.000 You wouldn't wear them Skechers down in Adidas?

00:58:43.000 I would wear wrestling shoes.

00:58:44.000 Wrestling shoes are lighter.

00:58:46.000 If you have cushioning under your sole, that cushioning is making you unstable.

00:58:52.000 It's making you move.

00:58:53.000 If you have running shoes on and you're going side to side, you're not fully planted on the ground like you are if you have wrestling shoes on.

00:59:00.000 Wrestling shoes would be the way to go. 0.93

00:59:01.000 Big fans.

00:59:02.000 But in a real scenario, you would never have wrestling shoes on.

00:59:05.000 And then you ain't gonna pause and somebody be like, hey, wait, wait, wait, let me put these wrestling shoes on.

00:59:08.000 Of course.

00:59:09.000 Because I done been in street fights.

00:59:10.000 I done known the element.

00:59:11.000 I used to work security in St. Louis, and I worked security for like eight years, bro. 0.50

00:59:15.000 Too damn long.

00:59:16.000 But the only reason why I worked security, man, because it was so fun.

00:59:19.000 You know what I mean?

00:59:19.000 There's so many different stories there.

00:59:21.000 There's so many different things that's going on.

00:59:22.000 And just being out there in that environment and just regular life ain't nothing going on for real.

00:59:29.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:59:29.000 Just having a regular-ass job.

00:59:31.000 And I'm fighting still and I'm just training.

00:59:33.000 But this is where the fun part of it is the nightlife.

00:59:36.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:59:37.000 Almost being, like I said, the Jon Jones.

00:59:38.000 So I'm glad I didn't get signed earlier in my career because I would have had a bunch of little crazy stories to tell.

00:59:43.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:59:43.000 No, for real, for real.

00:59:44.000 You know what I mean?

00:59:44.000 But luckily, I was able to mature over time.

00:59:46.000 But regardless, though, I didn't see the street element where a lot of guys think because they train jujitsu, because they train boxing, they train MMA, that they're going to be good fighting in the streets.

00:59:56.000 But there ain't no rules, bro.

00:59:58.000 I didn't see dudes be calmly like, oh, man, I don't want to fight you because you do-do-do.

01:00:01.000 And I got a beard in their hand and smashed their head in.

01:00:02.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:00:03.000 Immediately.

01:00:04.000 But they're not even seeing, like, just the body language, right?

01:00:06.000 You're not paying attention to certain stuff, you know?

01:00:09.000 And I feel like a lot of guys that train the discipline, which there's nothing wrong with training the discipline, but they use that alone to think that's going to save them.

01:00:17.000 You know what I mean?

01:00:17.000 You got to actually have the mentality that, like, you know, you are going to end a threat at any given moment by using anything that is necessary at that time, you know?

01:00:26.000 And a lot of guys don't do that because I've seen guys on the floor thinking, like, it's a jiu-jitsu match, but it gets stomped out.

01:00:31.000 Right.

01:00:32.000 Yeah.

01:00:32.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:00:33.000 Like, it's like different things like that.

01:00:35.000 You know what I mean?

01:00:35.000 So, I feel like people be having the wrong idea when it comes to, like, jiu-jitsu, wrestling, MMA. Like, that ain't the core element of fighting itself.

01:00:43.000 Well, if you're fighting like those guys are on concrete, that is a whole different ballgame.

01:00:48.000 Especially with takedowns.

01:00:49.000 That's a real fight, though.

01:00:50.000 And like I said, I never do nothing like that for no amount of money.

01:00:53.000 You know what I mean?

01:00:54.000 I bet they're not getting paid very well, either.

01:00:56.000 Nah, not at all.

01:00:57.000 They just going viral.

01:00:58.000 That's it.

01:00:59.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:00:59.000 They just going viral, you know?

01:01:01.000 But besides that though, but I do respect it because at the end of the day, that is real fight.

01:01:06.000 Oh, it's real.

01:01:07.000 Yeah.

01:01:07.000 Period.

01:01:08.000 Especially on concrete. 1.00

01:01:09.000 If you're on concrete and you're fighting a wrestler, you're in deep shit. 1.00

01:01:14.000 You're in deep shit. 1.00

01:01:15.000 Well, hold on. 1.00

01:01:15.000 I didn't see any wrestlers getting knocked out the hook. 1.00

01:01:17.000 Oh, that happens too?

01:01:17.000 Come on now.

01:01:18.000 That happens too, but if he can get ahold of you?

01:01:19.000 They thinking just double leg yourself, but dude pulling your hair.

01:01:23.000 That's true, too.

01:01:24.000 Adding stuff to it, like, you know, head-butting, like...

01:01:26.000 Right.

01:01:27.000 If you're only a wrestler, yeah.

01:01:28.000 Big facts, you know, because you thinking, like, your actual form of wrestling trying to...

01:01:32.000 You get in a wrestling stance, like, come on, man.

01:01:34.000 Like, what did you do?

01:01:34.000 Like, but I didn't see it before.

01:01:36.000 Like, where people actually pick a stance, like, to get in, that's not real fight.

01:01:40.000 Right.

01:01:40.000 You don't even show that threat.

01:01:42.000 You just make the move.

01:01:43.000 Right.

01:01:43.000 You know what I mean?

01:01:44.000 And like I said, you eliminate the threat as fast as possible.

01:01:46.000 You know what I mean?

01:01:46.000 Shout out to Detroit Dust.

01:01:48.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:01:48.000 Dale Brown, you know?

01:01:49.000 But he speaks about it as well because it's just like...

01:01:52.000 You want to be in the most calm position as possible if you're amongst somebody that's trying to fight you.

01:01:58.000 You know what I mean?

01:01:58.000 Now, if you know this is about to go there, you shouldn't show that you want to fight them.

01:02:03.000 You should actually be more calm and be more whatever, and then once they actually make that move, that's when you counter whatever and hit whatever part of the body that you can.

01:02:12.000 Just be aware.

01:02:12.000 Always be aware.

01:02:13.000 Always be aware.

01:02:14.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:02:14.000 Always be alert.

01:02:15.000 Do you find that now that you're known and you become a famous fighter, do people fuck with you now? 0.99

01:02:21.000 I ain't never been really fucked with, no. 0.96

01:02:23.000 Like, for real, I ain't never just had no type of problems like that. 0.77

01:02:27.000 But you're a nice guy, though.

01:02:28.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:29.000 That's also part of the way you carry yourself.

01:02:31.000 Yeah, I walk with respect everywhere I go, you know what I'm saying?

01:02:33.000 So I never, like, be out of pocket, never, you know, be out of line, you know what I mean?

01:02:37.000 So I never had any situation where anybody would want to fight me, you know?

01:02:42.000 But, you know, me working security, I guess I hadn't had opportunities where I could have jacked up a lot of guys.

01:02:47.000 You know, definitely when I was younger, I was definitely effing up a lot of guys, but that's not the security job to do.

01:02:51.000 You know, you're supposed to de-escalate a lot of situations, but you had a lot of guys that will, you know, try to press your patience, right?

01:02:57.000 And I could pop on, but just keep it cool, keep it calm, and try to get people out the smartest way possible.

01:03:03.000 Like, hey, bro, you know what I'm saying?

01:03:04.000 Let me holler at you outside real quick, you know?

01:03:06.000 But then kick them out. 0.83

01:03:07.000 Right.

01:03:07.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:03:08.000 Like, act like I'm trying to have a conversation with you.

01:03:09.000 And then, hey, hey, man, let me see.

01:03:11.000 You got something on your wristband?

01:03:12.000 Break it off.

01:03:13.000 And then they got to leave.

01:03:14.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:03:14.000 But you do have scenarios for myself, like when I was working security, where guys will try to challenge you.

01:03:20.000 You know what I mean?

01:03:21.000 And try to buck up and stuff like that, where you do have to do something.

01:03:24.000 But at the end of the day, don't nobody really try nothing because, you know, they lose.

01:03:28.000 I'm undefeated in these streets.

01:03:29.000 Well, I'm glad you're out of that situation now.

01:03:32.000 That's a dangerous game to play.

01:03:33.000 I mean, and I've been playing it for a long time, you know?

01:03:35.000 And that's why I say, like, it ain't scary getting into that cage.

01:03:38.000 That does play a factor.

01:03:40.000 Guys have been in street fights, and a lot of them.

01:03:43.000 It's calmer in the cage.

01:03:45.000 Way more calmer, because, like, it's the actual structure.

01:03:48.000 It's competition.

01:03:49.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:03:49.000 Like, I got somebody right here on the side of me, which is called a referee, that if anything does happen, he gonna stop the fight.

01:03:55.000 You know?

01:03:56.000 You don't got that in the street element.

01:03:57.000 You know what I mean?

01:03:58.000 Because once you get knocked out, I done seen dudes where they get KO'd and dudes keep pummeling.

01:04:02.000 Boom, boom, boom.

01:04:03.000 And not stopping.

01:04:04.000 Yeah.

01:04:04.000 Like, bro, you gonna do some life, bro.

01:04:08.000 Like, you kill this dude. 1.00

01:04:09.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

01:04:10.000 And that's how people die.

01:04:11.000 All the time, you know what I mean?

01:04:12.000 And regardless though, but those scenarios and dealing with that type of stuff, like I said, I feel like I'm at home when I'm in that octagon, you know?

01:04:20.000 Because this is where I feel like I'm free and then I can express myself freely without actually being judged for doing what I'm doing, you know?

01:04:27.000 So that's why I love, you know, fighting in the UFC right now.

01:04:30.000 Now, when you look at your career going forward, you've got this Chris Curtis fight, you plan on winning that fight, and then you want to drop down to 170. No, I am, point blank.

01:04:42.000 I was already planning on moving down to 170, but what my manager told me, I ain't trying to put his stuff out there like that, I'm signing with Sucker Punch, Brian Butler, but he was telling me I can get a better contract if I sign one more fight at 185. Okay.

01:04:55.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:04:55.000 So the UFC offered you this fight.

01:04:57.000 They want to make an exciting fight for this big card in Vegas.

01:05:00.000 That's a great card.

01:05:01.000 And they love it, right?

01:05:02.000 You know what I mean?

01:05:03.000 Because it's not one fight that the UFC gave me that I did not.

01:05:06.000 I didn't took every fight.

01:05:07.000 I was even supposed to fight Alex Pereira, fam.

01:05:09.000 Really?

01:05:10.000 Yes, sir.

01:05:11.000 So I had to resign to our Hassan fight, right? 0.69

01:05:13.000 We were supposed to fight the first card of the year in January.

01:05:17.000 He's talking about his shoulder hurt.

01:05:18.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:05:18.000 He did something to his shoulder, whatever.

01:05:20.000 Blase, blase.

01:05:20.000 You know, so I was like, man, forget that, bro.

01:05:22.000 I've been training hella hard.

01:05:23.000 Like, just give me anybody.

01:05:24.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:05:25.000 So if it ain't resolved, because I'm not finna push that fight back.

01:05:27.000 I want to fight in January, whatever.

01:05:29.000 So he was like, all right, all right.

01:05:30.000 Brian was telling me, all right, let me call him back, whatever, and let them know.

01:05:34.000 And they came back with a name.

01:05:35.000 And he was so hesitant to tell me, though.

01:05:37.000 This is the funny part, right?

01:05:38.000 So he's like, oh man, you know, I don't really like this fight for you, man.

01:05:42.000 You know, he's not really well known, but he's pretty good.

01:05:45.000 And I already said it for him before he said it.

01:05:46.000 I was like, Alex Pereira, he said, how do you know?

01:05:48.000 And I just already assumed just with my style and who he is.

01:05:51.000 Because I always make sure I pay attention to who's on the roster.

01:05:54.000 I gotta pay attention.

01:05:55.000 Even Bo Nickel, you know what I'm saying?

01:05:56.000 Like, even though he's not nowhere yet, that's still a name that people pay attention to and people want to see him do well.

01:06:01.000 So I pay attention to fighters like that.

01:06:02.000 And knowing that Alex Pereira really only got signed because he beat Izzy, I was like, that's somebody to pay attention to.

01:06:08.000 So when I was able to guess that name, he was like, yeah, that's the fight they want you to fight.

01:06:12.000 Immediately, I said yes to it.

01:06:13.000 So he calls them back, and he calls me back.

01:06:16.000 He was like, hey, I got some good news and I got some bad news.

01:06:18.000 I was like, oh, what's up?

01:06:19.000 He said, good news, you look great to the UFC that you taking this fight, you know what I mean?

01:06:23.000 But bad news is they said they won't be ready in time.

01:06:25.000 And at first I was like, oh man, this dude being scary, but now it makes sense.

01:06:28.000 He ain't scary to cut the weight.

01:06:31.000 He got so much weight to cut.

01:06:32.000 He's big.

01:06:32.000 He's bigger than him.

01:06:33.000 He's big as fuck. 0.99

01:06:34.000 So it wasn't that Alex Pereira wouldn't be able to take the fight because I think his coach or whoever his trainer is, the one that declined because of the time frame wasn't messed up. 0.99

01:06:43.000 He needs time to cut weight.

01:06:45.000 You know what I mean?

01:06:45.000 But I would have took the fight though because I already know that he has to cut a lot of weight.

01:06:49.000 That dude's walking into the cage like 220. Easily.

01:06:53.000 Easily, bro.

01:06:53.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:06:54.000 Because he walking around 240. He's got so much power.

01:06:57.000 What are your thoughts on that fight this weekend?

01:07:00.000 Because that's a big fight.

01:07:02.000 My thoughts on it, bro, is way different from everybody else's.

01:07:06.000 You know what I mean?

01:07:06.000 Because people call me crazy all the time.

01:07:07.000 But I think it's going to be like the same fight that we've seen Yoel and Izzy with.

01:07:11.000 Where you got two people just staring each other down, you know, not trying to make that move because, you know, they both had the capabilities of knocking each other out.

01:07:18.000 Or Francis Ngannou versus Derrick Lewis, you know what I mean?

01:07:21.000 So, and with everything, the hype being behind this fight, too, you know, Izzy is going, hopefully, like I said, if he don't apply his emotions into it like he hasn't done with every other fight...

01:07:30.000 I feel like he's going to do enough to win, but I feel like Alex Pereira is not going to be able to apply that pressure on Izzy just because he won't have the energy to sustain that for five rounds.

01:07:41.000 Remember, this is a five-rounder.

01:07:42.000 Right, because of the fact that he's cutting so much weight.

01:07:44.000 Thank you.

01:07:45.000 Plus, we don't see Alex Pereira move a lot anyway in his fights.

01:07:49.000 You only seen with Bruno Silva where you pushed him up against the cage a lot.

01:07:52.000 And that was a good fight to watch.

01:07:54.000 It was a very good fight to watch.

01:07:54.000 He got hit in that fight.

01:07:55.000 He got touched up real good.

01:07:57.000 Bruno Silva's a very good striker.

01:07:58.000 Man, big facts.

01:07:59.000 I don't know what to say.

01:08:00.000 But I get what you're saying.

01:08:01.000 He got good pops.

01:08:02.000 He's in your weight class.

01:08:02.000 Yeah, I know.

01:08:03.000 I'll be seeing guys and I'll be like, this is why they win in these fights.

01:08:07.000 You know what I mean?

01:08:07.000 So I know that you're not a boxer.

01:08:09.000 I know that you're not a kickboxer.

01:08:10.000 You're not a heavy striker because he's more of a jiu-jitsu.

01:08:12.000 He's more of a grappler.

01:08:13.000 Mm-hmm.

01:08:13.000 But Bruno Silva got good power.

01:08:15.000 Right.

01:08:15.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:08:15.000 So he able to wane some of the punches because a lot of times, like, Bruno Silva be getting his ass work.

01:08:19.000 Even Jordan Wright was touching him. 0.96

01:08:20.000 Mm-hmm.

01:08:20.000 Jordan Wright was touching Bruno Silva, but then, you know, Jordan Wright just got caught.

01:08:24.000 Stood in front of him.

01:08:25.000 Just stood, exactly, stood in front of him, got caught, and it was all, and it don't take that much in on the four-ounce gloves.

01:08:29.000 And that's why this Pereira fight is so interesting, though, because Pereira has that ridiculous power.

01:08:35.000 He just needed that one shot.

01:08:36.000 But the thing about Izzy, he is patient.

01:08:38.000 And he would, well, we're not going to call it boring, but he would strategically break you down all night long for 25 minutes.

01:08:47.000 If he gotta touch that leg all day, he gonna touch it.

01:08:51.000 You know, if you ain't gonna do nothing about it, if you're not gonna answer back, that's what he gonna do.

01:08:54.000 But I feel like in my heart, you know what I mean, that Alex Pereira unfortunately doesn't have the actual ability to fight Izzy the way he needs to win.

01:09:03.000 For five rounds.

01:09:04.000 For five rounds.

01:09:04.000 Because he's so big.

01:09:06.000 Yeah, that's one of the reasons.

01:09:07.000 But I just think between both of them, it's going to be a boring fight.

01:09:09.000 It's not going to be as exciting as people think it might be.

01:09:12.000 And that's the thing.

01:09:13.000 Izzy needs that type of exciting fight right now. 1.00

01:09:15.000 You know?

01:09:15.000 Because of the Jared Cannoneer fight.

01:09:17.000 You know?

01:09:18.000 We can say Paula Costa, but that was so...

01:09:20.000 How long?

01:09:20.000 2020?

01:09:21.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:09:22.000 So we've been expecting this from the champ because he's so pulverized outside the cage with, you know, the French tips, the pearl necklace, you know what I mean?

01:09:29.000 Doing all these little videos and dancing and all that, just showman stuff.

01:09:33.000 But we want to see that showcase in the cage as well, you know?

01:09:36.000 And that's my biggest thing.

01:09:38.000 I'm impressed by Izzy, and I'm a fan of Izzy, first off.

01:09:42.000 But I feel like if you don't bring a fight to him, he's not going to bring it to you.

01:09:46.000 That make sense?

01:09:47.000 Yes.

01:09:48.000 I feel what you're saying.

01:09:49.000 So, like, he's willing to dance.

01:09:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:52.000 Big fan.

01:09:52.000 I mean, people forget that there was quite a few fights where Anderson Silva did the same thing.

01:09:57.000 He laid Talos Latis.

01:09:58.000 Remember that fight?

01:09:59.000 Yes, yes.

01:09:59.000 You know, there was many fights where, you know, he laid back and waited for guys to come at Anderson.

01:10:04.000 Even better than Damian Maia.

01:10:06.000 Yes.

01:10:06.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:10:07.000 Boy, Danny was mad about that one, you hear me?

01:10:09.000 But at the same time, that's the way he won.

01:10:12.000 Yes.

01:10:13.000 Because why would I engage with you knowing what you're trying to do?

01:10:17.000 Right.

01:10:17.000 You understand?

01:10:18.000 Yeah.

01:10:18.000 So like I said, with that being said, I'm not mad at Izzy because he's going to do whatever it takes to keep that belt.

01:10:41.000 Mm-hmm.

01:10:44.000 But then you see the strategic Izzy now, I don't see Alex Perea beating him.

01:10:49.000 Interesting.

01:10:50.000 Very interesting.

01:10:51.000 Yeah, take into account what you're saying about the five rounds and the weight cut, because that is a big factor.

01:10:56.000 That's a big factor.

01:10:57.000 That's the hugest factor, yeah.

01:10:59.000 Because Alex is so big, but without the wrestling threat, because Izzy's not really a guy who takes anybody down.

01:11:06.000 I'm about to say, yeah, who out there wrestling?

01:11:08.000 Right.

01:11:09.000 So everybody think like, oh, is he going to turn into a wrestler?

01:11:11.000 No, he ain't.

01:11:11.000 No.

01:11:12.000 You only fight the way you train, you know?

01:11:14.000 And not saying you don't work on that element of wrestling, but I don't see is he like shooting a jab, shooting across, shooting a hook, and double it.

01:11:21.000 No.

01:11:22.000 That's not going to happen.

01:11:23.000 I mean, if it does, I'll be stunned.

01:11:24.000 I'll be shocked.

01:11:25.000 I'm sure he can do it.

01:11:26.000 I'll be shocked.

01:11:27.000 But thing is, though, now you got to engage with that boy a sniper.

01:11:30.000 Can we pull up that, if you don't mind?

01:11:33.000 Please.

01:11:34.000 With Alex Pereira, with him shooting, you know what I'm saying, sniping with the arrows.

01:11:38.000 Yeah, when he shot the soccer ball.

01:11:39.000 Bro, man, that's crazy because my biggest thing is, though, like, Alex Pereira is the same type of beast, too, right? 0.82

01:11:46.000 He's a trap.

01:11:48.000 He waits all day.

01:11:50.000 And once you expose yourself or you come close enough...

01:11:54.000 He hits you.

01:11:55.000 Like Sean Strickland.

01:11:56.000 Yeah.

01:11:57.000 Sean Strickland stood right in front of him.

01:11:59.000 But it wasn't even just standing right in front of him.

01:12:01.000 He was marching him down with his hands down.

01:12:04.000 Well, yeah, he keeps his hands like...

01:12:06.000 He has a very strange style.

01:12:08.000 So here's him.

01:12:09.000 I ain't gonna lie, this was cold.

01:12:11.000 It's pretty badass.

01:12:11.000 This was cold, man.

01:12:12.000 It's pretty badass.

01:12:13.000 And it ain't one of those special little arrows either, like bowing arrows.

01:12:16.000 It's one of them he just made in the house.

01:12:17.000 Well, that's a recurve bow.

01:12:18.000 He grabbed a stick and grabbed a string.

01:12:20.000 Yeah, that's a recurve bow.

01:12:21.000 That's a much harder bow to shoot than what I shoot.

01:12:24.000 I shoot a compound bow.

01:12:25.000 Oh, man.

01:12:25.000 That takes real skill.

01:12:28.000 Yeah.

01:12:28.000 Look at him.

01:12:29.000 That roar that he has is terrifying.

01:12:33.000 I'm very excited about this fight, man.

01:12:35.000 I don't know what kind of preparation he's done in terms of getting himself lighter for a five-round fight and making sure that the cut is not as bad.

01:12:44.000 I don't know, but he looks shredded.

01:12:46.000 He looks shredded, man.

01:12:47.000 And he looks like he's killing himself to make that weight.

01:12:49.000 That's all I'm going to say.

01:12:50.000 He certainly is losing a lot of weight to make that weight.

01:12:53.000 He killed himself to get to that weight.

01:12:55.000 But he's done it many, many times.

01:12:58.000 But you see Izzy doing all this press, doing all this stuff. 0.86

01:13:00.000 Now, to be honest with you, I'd be like, it's a positive thing.

01:13:03.000 But at the same time, I ain't never seen him do this much work before or preparation for a fight where it comes to selling it.

01:13:10.000 Yeah, press.

01:13:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:13:11.000 Yeah, but they make you do that.

01:13:12.000 I mean, this is Madison Square Garden.

01:13:14.000 But this is the most I've ever seen.

01:13:15.000 I pay attention to these fighters all the time because they're in the weight class, right?

01:13:18.000 I want to be these guys, right?

01:13:19.000 I want to take their belt, right?

01:13:20.000 So I pay close attention to what they do all the time.

01:13:23.000 And especially Izzy because he's a champ, you know?

01:13:26.000 So besides it just being ESPN +, you know he got his own YouTube channel and everything like that.

01:13:31.000 And I mean, like, I feel like he done amped it up even more.

01:13:34.000 And there's nothing wrong with that.

01:13:35.000 That's either showing me that you have a lot of confidence about yourself and you're able to take this fight.

01:13:41.000 I'm going to say not so serious, but not as serious because you're doing other stuff on top of this, right?

01:13:46.000 Alex Pereira is only focusing on training and fighting right now.

01:13:50.000 There ain't no press for him for real for real.

01:13:51.000 You know what I mean?

01:13:52.000 So he's taking it into initiative.

01:13:54.000 I'm talking about Izzy to promote this fight as best as he can.

01:13:57.000 So you also taking away from your training at the end of the day.

01:14:00.000 Right?

01:14:02.000 But I feel like he thinks he's good enough to do what he's going to do.

01:14:07.000 In order to take time away from his training.

01:14:09.000 But isn't that just what the UFC obligates him to do?

01:14:12.000 Because he's selling the fight and he has pay-per-view points.

01:14:15.000 Not with everything.

01:14:16.000 But he has pay-per-view points.

01:14:17.000 I feel you, but I feel like...

01:14:18.000 And he also is the only one that speaks English.

01:14:20.000 Alex doesn't speak English.

01:14:21.000 Yeah, yeah, true story.

01:14:22.000 So that makes it difficult.

01:14:23.000 But I feel like a lot of stuff he's been doing on his own as well.

01:14:27.000 Doing extra stuff, you know?

01:14:28.000 Which I don't mind it because you gotta promote the fight.

01:14:30.000 You gotta do whatever you gotta do in order to get people to buy in.

01:14:33.000 And to be honest with you, it's not that hard of a buy-in because...

01:14:36.000 Even with Alex Pereira not being able to speak English, he's the only person that beat him.

01:14:39.000 The only person that knocked him out.

01:14:41.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:14:42.000 So that's an easy sell on itself.

01:14:44.000 So my thing is, why is Alex Pereira trying so hard?

01:14:48.000 You know what I mean?

01:14:49.000 Like, this is the one that, if I wasn't an MMA head, and I was just like, whatever, just watching this stuff, I'm like, oh, okay, that'd be interesting to watch.

01:14:55.000 Dude that already knocked him out, this dude is undefeated in MMA, but still could be a close fight, I'd watch it.

01:15:00.000 You know?

01:15:01.000 But Izzy is going about his weight, and like I said, I don't know what's going on in his head, but I feel like he's not trying to think about the fight itself, even though it is...

01:15:09.000 The press conference and all this other stuff.

01:15:11.000 He's trying to get himself more calm, right?

01:15:14.000 He wanted to be around more people.

01:15:15.000 I forget who...

01:15:16.000 That's another fighter that talked about that and the reason why he always stayed in the press and in interviews because it took him away from the fight.

01:15:24.000 They always wanted to be in the light.

01:15:25.000 I forget what...

01:15:26.000 I know what you're saying.

01:15:27.000 So the more you do other stuff, you can just have fun and it loosens you up and talk to people.

01:15:33.000 Exactly.

01:15:33.000 And you ain't got to actually focus on the actual mission itself.

01:15:38.000 You just go to the mission.

01:15:39.000 You know?

01:15:40.000 So I don't know.

01:15:41.000 It's two ways to go about it, you know?

01:15:42.000 And I feel like if Izzy goes out, like I said, emotional, he will get caught, you know?

01:15:48.000 So I feel like he needs to keep doing it.

01:15:50.000 Like, even when he play around, like, oh, I might just kick his leg and just jab him the whole fight.

01:15:54.000 Do that.

01:15:55.000 Even with him joking, do that.

01:15:58.000 Because at the same time, that's how you've been winning your fights this whole time.

01:16:01.000 A lot of them.

01:16:02.000 The thing about Pejera is he's there to get hit. 0.95

01:16:05.000 He can be hit. 0.95

01:16:06.000 He a tree. 0.79

01:16:07.000 You said it right.

01:16:08.000 A mahogany tree.

01:16:09.000 He is that.

01:16:10.000 He's made out of wood, dude.

01:16:11.000 You better not run into him, though.

01:16:12.000 You understand?

01:16:14.000 He's built different, man.

01:16:15.000 He's so dense.

01:16:16.000 Yeah, big fact.

01:16:17.000 I mean, just the way he hit guys with that left hook, right?

01:16:20.000 And it's the crazy part.

01:16:21.000 It's not just him knocking them out, but they all fall the same.

01:16:24.000 Yeah, they fall like they just shut off.

01:16:26.000 Like they got shot.

01:16:28.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

01:16:29.000 I ain't never seen that before.

01:16:31.000 Even with Mike Tyson, when he knock out guys, at least they fall in different type of ways.

01:16:35.000 But like you said, it's like he almost killing these guys.

01:16:38.000 It's like a straight blank shot to there.

01:16:40.000 Boom! 0.99

01:16:40.000 And then their whole body just shuts down. 0.99

01:16:43.000 That LFA knockout that he did, I don't know who the dude he knocked out.

01:16:46.000 Find that fight. 1.00

01:16:47.000 I mean, he's a motherfucker with that left hook. 1.00

01:16:49.000 But he's a motherfucker with everything. 1.00

01:16:51.000 When he knocked out Jason Willis, hit him with a head kick and a flying knee. 1.00

01:16:55.000 He ain't had that many fights.

01:16:56.000 But hold on, did you see his loss though?

01:16:58.000 Which one?

01:16:59.000 He only had one.

01:17:00.000 In kickboxing?

01:17:02.000 No, no, no.

01:17:02.000 Oh, my bad.

01:17:03.000 In MMA? In MMA. Yes, sir.

01:17:05.000 He got submitted, correct?

01:17:06.000 He got submitted.

01:17:06.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:07.000 So have you seen it, though?

01:17:09.000 Yeah, I did.

01:17:10.000 I saw it a while ago.

01:17:10.000 So it's hard to find.

01:17:11.000 I found it one time.

01:17:12.000 And that's why it gave me a lot of confidence to fight, buddy.

01:17:15.000 Right?

01:17:16.000 Just seeing the fight that he had against Duel, and trust me, Duel was taking a lot of punishment.

01:17:20.000 Don't get it twisted.

01:17:20.000 Duel was tough as hell.

01:17:21.000 But just seeing how that guy was able to persevere through that, right, and still clinch up against Alex Pereira and wear him out and make him tired and get him to the ground, and then eventually end up submitting him.

01:17:33.000 I was like, bro, I'm going to put that dog work on him.

01:17:36.000 That's the type of style that I bring.

01:17:38.000 I don't care who I'm fighting.

01:17:39.000 I'm still going to bring that style.

01:17:40.000 I don't care who you is.

01:17:41.000 You know what I mean?

01:17:42.000 So all I need to do is see that.

01:17:43.000 Like, oh, you ain't got that great of conditioning.

01:17:45.000 And it's not that you don't work out hard or you don't train hard.

01:17:48.000 You're cutting all this weight to get there.

01:17:50.000 Your body ain't never going to be 100%.

01:17:51.000 I also think that was very early in his approach to MMA. Yeah, low-key, but like six months later, he was in the UFC. Yeah.

01:18:00.000 But it was also before he was fighting Glover or training with Glover.

01:18:03.000 I think that made a big factor in both Glover and his career.

01:18:06.000 Might have, but he's still fighting the same way to me, right?

01:18:10.000 Like I said, I look at the last loss, like even with, not even the loss with Izzy, but like with the fight with Kevin Gadsden where he got touched the most, you know?

01:18:19.000 And that's the fight that you...

01:18:20.000 So here's, this is, this is, what is this?

01:18:23.000 This is his kickboxing loss?

01:18:25.000 Yeah.

01:18:25.000 No, he lost a few times in kickboxing.

01:18:27.000 He got liver hooked.

01:18:28.000 Yeah, I ain't see this one.

01:18:29.000 That's a good kickboxing fight.

01:18:30.000 Yeah, he got caught with a left hook.

01:18:32.000 But I think Izzy beat Homeboy right there, though.

01:18:34.000 Left hook. 0.75

01:18:35.000 Left leg kicks.

01:18:36.000 He's lost before.

01:18:37.000 Yeah, of course.

01:18:38.000 But again, this is Alex early in his career.

01:18:41.000 But this is kickboxing though, man.

01:18:43.000 And this is what I'm trying to say.

01:18:45.000 If I fought Alex Pereira, I'm putting the singlet on.

01:18:48.000 I'm not going to play with you.

01:18:50.000 I'm going to take the fight where I feel like I have more advantages.

01:18:53.000 Yeah, he lost his last kickboxing fight in glory. 1.00

01:18:57.000 A very, very close decision to, I forget the gentleman's name, but this Russian cat who's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:19:02.000 No, no, no. 1.00

01:19:03.000 That knee.

01:19:04.000 Boy, that was mad.

01:19:05.000 That was insane.

01:19:05.000 That was, ah!

01:19:06.000 That was nasty! 0.93

01:19:08.000 I give him that.

01:19:09.000 But like I said, yet again, dude standing right in front of him.

01:19:11.000 Yes.

01:19:11.000 Dude standing right in front of him.

01:19:12.000 He's setting up that trap, you know?

01:19:14.000 Yes.

01:19:14.000 Yeah, he set up the trap.

01:19:15.000 Look, look, look.

01:19:16.000 Boom! 0.99

01:19:16.000 Not only that, Izzy called that. 0.99

01:19:17.000 He was actually in the dressing room and he called that fight.

01:19:20.000 And that's Bruno Silva.

01:19:21.000 Yeah, that's Bruno Silva. 0.99

01:19:22.000 And Bruno Silva was getting his ass whipped by Jordan Wright. 0.99

01:19:24.000 And I feel for Jordan Wright, man. 0.98

01:19:25.000 You know, he just got that little 50k though for a fighter tonight.

01:19:27.000 But he's just a one-round fighter though, I feel like.

01:19:30.000 Well, he fights wild.

01:19:31.000 Yeah, Jordan fights wild.

01:19:32.000 Jordan fights wild.

01:19:33.000 So, this is the Bruno Silva fight, which is the only fight that he went in the UFC to decision.

01:19:37.000 But you see, Bruno hit him with some shots.

01:19:39.000 Bruno clinched with him here.

01:19:41.000 Bruno got the takedown.

01:19:42.000 Put the dog fight on him.

01:19:43.000 But Alex Pereira showed he a dog, too, though.

01:19:45.000 You see him?

01:19:45.000 Still coming back.

01:19:46.000 Boom.

01:19:47.000 But he got him pressed up against the cage, though.

01:19:48.000 Look, he don't move his feet, though.

01:19:50.000 He's standing right in front of him.

01:19:51.000 And Bruno survived.

01:19:52.000 We have to put that out.

01:19:53.000 And guys have finished Bruno.

01:19:55.000 But he survived against Pereira.

01:19:56.000 But again...

01:19:57.000 I mean, the bell saved him a little bit.

01:19:59.000 Bell saved him a little bit.

01:20:00.000 But again, you fight a guy like him...

01:20:02.000 Look, look, look, look.

01:20:04.000 And this fight, even though he walked out of it with a decision, that took something away from Bruno.

01:20:09.000 When you get a beating like this against a guy like Pajera, you know, that's also how I feel about Francis Ngannou's first fight with Stipe.

01:20:16.000 Stipe won that fight, but man, he took a lot of punishment.

01:20:20.000 Oh, we're talking about Stipe?

01:20:21.000 Yeah, a lot of punishment.

01:20:22.000 And I don't think you're the same after that.

01:20:24.000 There's certain fights where fighters, that was the Sean Strickland one.

01:20:28.000 Sean Strickland was almost like tailor-made for him.

01:20:32.000 Walking forward.

01:20:33.000 So this is what I want to say too, because the reason why they need Alex Pereira is because there's nobody...

01:20:39.000 That's going to be able to, well, not nobody because I could have done it.

01:20:42.000 But regardless, it's three walls that's saving Izzy, right?

01:20:46.000 You know what those three walls is?

01:20:48.000 Robert Whitaker, Marvin Vittori, and Jared Kennedy.

01:20:51.000 If you're a fighter, as a matter of fact, Nasher Dean, right?

01:20:54.000 I lost to him.

01:20:55.000 If he's trying to work his way up into fighting for a belt, you've got to fight one of those guys.

01:20:59.000 If you can't beat those guys, you're not going to fight.

01:21:01.000 Right.

01:21:02.000 Alex Pereira, did he fight any one of those guys I mentioned?

01:21:05.000 No.

01:21:05.000 But I feel like Alex Pereira would get exposed if he fought any three of those guys.

01:21:09.000 Well, I think that's one of the reasons why they fast-tracked him to the title because of the fact that it's hyped up.

01:21:14.000 Yeah, big fight.

01:21:14.000 It's a big fight.

01:21:15.000 It's all about money.

01:21:16.000 I think Marvin Vittori is a very tough fight for him.

01:21:18.000 Marvittori, Robert Whittaker, and shoot Jerry Kenney.

01:21:21.000 Yes, all three.

01:21:21.000 But Vittori in particular, really good at takedowns.

01:21:24.000 Big fucking guy. 1.00

01:21:25.000 Big as well. 1.00

01:21:25.000 Big as fuck. 1.00

01:21:26.000 You see that guy, you're like, how the fuck is that 185 pounds? 1.00

01:21:29.000 I mean, shoot, Paula Costa. 0.97

01:21:30.000 Actually, that's one of the best fights I've seen in a minute between him, Marvittori, and Paula Costa.

01:21:36.000 Yes.

01:21:37.000 Because they both fought at their natural weight.

01:21:39.000 Right.

01:21:40.000 They didn't cut anyway.

01:21:41.000 They didn't cut anyway.

01:21:41.000 Because at first, I gave that same prediction at first.

01:21:43.000 I was like, bro, if these guys fighting at 185, it's going to be the slowest dragged out fight because both of them are going to be depleted.

01:21:48.000 But instead, Paula Costa didn't come in.

01:21:50.000 Cut him weight.

01:21:50.000 He was like, I don't want to cut weight, man.

01:21:53.000 I want to be, what?

01:21:54.000 He said 205 or something like that.

01:21:56.000 He was like, no, forget that.

01:21:57.000 I don't want to fight at 205, man.

01:21:58.000 I don't want to be heavyweight.

01:22:01.000 My man came in down there like a heavyweight.

01:22:02.000 I don't care what nobody say.

01:22:04.000 So even though they made that 205 light heavyweight weight together, they were both just walking around.

01:22:09.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:22:10.000 One of the craziest aspects of MMA, the day before a cage fight, you're supposed to dehydrate yourself to the point of death.

01:22:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:22:19.000 It's wild, ain't it?

01:22:20.000 Wild!

01:22:21.000 Yeah.

01:22:21.000 Doesn't make any sense.

01:22:22.000 And I'm trying to go back to it with my crazy ass. 0.99

01:22:24.000 But my thing is, though, it's just understanding they just keep getting bigger. 0.99

01:22:28.000 Yeah.

01:22:28.000 They keep getting bigger because you can do it.

01:22:30.000 You know?

01:22:30.000 And my biggest thing is, like, I'm not scared, but I gotta be smart.

01:22:34.000 Right.

01:22:34.000 You know?

01:22:35.000 And, you know, being able to fight these guys, you know, I gotta realize, like, I gotta be safe in the first and second round.

01:22:40.000 Yes.

01:22:41.000 You know, that's why I didn't mind, like, one of the main events, because I feel like I could definitely put that pressure, had a conditioning to go 25 minutes on the guys that's in middleweight, right?

01:22:48.000 Yeah.

01:22:49.000 So we can fight a little bit smarter, but only having three rounds, I can only do so much.

01:22:52.000 Right.

01:22:53.000 And that's what happened in the National Dean fight.

01:22:54.000 Yes.

01:22:54.000 I done ran out of time.

01:22:56.000 Yes.

01:22:56.000 So I played myself.

01:22:58.000 But yeah, these guys, man, it's just crazy just to see the development of 185. So a lot of these guys that's going up into the rankings and stuff like that, if you're not fighting those three guys right there and you don't beat them, you're not going to fight the belt.

01:23:09.000 So now that Alex Pereira was able to skip over the head like he was a knight, like you're playing chess, was able to skip over those three pawns, and now he's getting the king.

01:23:16.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:23:17.000 So, hey, that's lucky him.

01:23:18.000 I ain't even mad at it because we want to see something that's different.

01:23:22.000 In my eyes, though, I just don't see it because I don't believe Alex Perret has the skill set necessary to fight the type of style that we need to see Izzy against.

01:23:32.000 And what type of style do you think that is?

01:23:33.000 Aggressive, grappler, forward pressure, good hands, Kevin Gaston, right?

01:23:38.000 Even though Kevin Gaston lost, right?

01:23:40.000 Another style like that, a softball.

01:23:42.000 I don't believe that's the only softball that he fought.

01:23:44.000 I believe Izzy.

01:23:46.000 Well, Yoel's a softball, too.

01:23:48.000 Oh, UL. But UL didn't do nothing.

01:23:50.000 UL wasn't perfect, but he just stood like this.

01:23:53.000 UL might be 60 years old.

01:23:55.000 We don't even know how old he is.

01:23:58.000 Didn't he win a lawsuit or something?

01:24:00.000 Didn't he get paid?

01:24:01.000 I don't know.

01:24:02.000 Somebody was talking about that.

01:24:03.000 A supplement.

01:24:04.000 It was a supplement.

01:24:06.000 He got a bag from it.

01:24:07.000 Yeah, something happened.

01:24:08.000 I don't know how much he got.

01:24:09.000 But he just won his last fight in Bellator.

01:24:12.000 He did?

01:24:12.000 Who you went against?

01:24:14.000 Um...

01:24:14.000 Oh, no, no.

01:24:14.000 Actually, I think I probably might know.

01:24:16.000 Melvin Manoff?

01:24:17.000 Yes.

01:24:18.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:19.000 And I hate that because Melvin Manoff was one of the guys I looked up to, bro.

01:24:23.000 Oh, my God.

01:24:23.000 Melvin in his prime.

01:24:24.000 That boy was the pure...

01:24:25.000 Like, that was the Mike Tyson, the kickboxing.

01:24:28.000 100%.

01:24:28.000 Come on, now.

01:24:29.000 Yeah, 100%.

01:24:30.000 But just seeing, like, guys...

01:24:32.000 Those gladiator shorts.

01:24:34.000 Come on with those gladiator shorts. 0.94

01:24:35.000 Shredded. 0.96

01:24:35.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.96

01:24:36.000 Come on.

01:24:38.000 We're in the lease.

01:24:38.000 To the death.

01:24:40.000 He come out to the death. 1.00

01:24:41.000 I mean, that dude fought like a fucking demon. 1.00

01:24:44.000 Yeah, man. 0.99

01:24:45.000 He was so good as a kickboxer.

01:24:46.000 Guy knocked out Mark Hunt.

01:24:48.000 Yeah, I know.

01:24:48.000 How about Mark Hunt knocking out that undefeated fighter at 48 years old?

01:24:52.000 You see that shit? 0.99

01:24:53.000 Mark Hunt, first of all, Mark Hunt still fighting. 1.00

01:24:54.000 Mark Hunt still fighting.

01:24:56.000 Still fighting.

01:24:57.000 Won.

01:24:57.000 He won his last fight.

01:24:59.000 And he won too, huh?

01:24:59.000 Yeah.

01:25:00.000 Hey, shout out. 0.92

01:25:00.000 He fought this undefeated boxer and knocked him out. 0.92

01:25:05.000 He was like a huge underdog and wound up knocking him out.

01:25:08.000 At 48 years old.

01:25:09.000 But my thing is, why do you think that is, though?

01:25:12.000 Like, not why he knocked him out, but why do you think these guys continue to fight like this, at this age?

01:25:17.000 Well, I think Mark Hunt is born for it, first of all.

01:25:19.000 He loves it.

01:25:20.000 He's been around forever.

01:25:22.000 I mean, Mark Hunt was the K-1 Grand Prix champion, fought improperly.

01:25:26.000 Pride and the glory days of pride.

01:25:28.000 Fought in UFC and the glory days of the heavyweight division and still slinging leather at 48 years old.

01:25:36.000 Massive respect.

01:25:37.000 I think with all that being said and done, you think you'd be done.

01:25:41.000 I don't know, man.

01:25:42.000 You know, like what more do you have to prove and show and do?

01:25:45.000 Like Anderson Silva, man, that broke my heart when he lost to Jake Paul, bro.

01:25:49.000 And like, you got this little kid, bro, like, you know, and he's doing his thing, right?

01:25:53.000 You see that he's an athlete.

01:25:54.000 You see that he's working on his style of fighting, you know what I mean, when it comes to boxing.

01:25:58.000 But at the end of the day, it's still he picking at every MMA hit, right?

01:26:04.000 And he's fighting Tyron Wooley, Ben Asher, now Anderson Silva.

01:26:08.000 And then guess who you said is probably going to be next, right?

01:26:10.000 Jake Paul.

01:26:10.000 No, Andrew Tate.

01:26:12.000 Actually, they just posted it today.

01:26:14.000 They just faced off today.

01:26:15.000 But the name that he was talking about was Diaz, though.

01:26:17.000 Yes.

01:26:18.000 At first.

01:26:19.000 Well, the Diaz fight is a big name and a big money fight, but he's a lot bigger.

01:26:25.000 He's a lot bigger than Nate.

01:26:26.000 But that's the point.

01:26:28.000 Yeah.

01:26:28.000 He's doing it smart.

01:26:30.000 He is doing it smart, but at the same time, he's embarrassing all of us.

01:26:33.000 Like, for real.

01:26:34.000 And it's sad because he's saying all these different things and he's talking about having these real conversations that need to be had, but it's coming from him.

01:26:42.000 He means about money.

01:26:43.000 You already know, but it's not a conversation for him to have.

01:26:46.000 But it is.

01:26:47.000 It is because it helps him get attention.

01:26:49.000 And it helps fighters take his point.

01:26:51.000 I love what he's doing.

01:26:52.000 I hate it.

01:26:53.000 I hate it. 1.00

01:26:53.000 I want to be the devil. 1.00

01:26:54.000 I'm sure you do!

01:26:56.000 But you're a fighter!

01:26:57.000 And I'm going to get a check for it too.

01:26:58.000 But it's not because I'm just a fighter because he's telling us that we're not even brave enough to fight for ourselves.

01:27:04.000 So I'm going to fight for y'all while I'm knocking out y'all legends in the process of it.

01:27:08.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:27:09.000 Well, what he's doing is very intelligent.

01:27:11.000 I don't know.

01:27:12.000 It's smart.

01:27:12.000 The promotion's off the chart.

01:27:14.000 He's hilarious.

01:27:15.000 He's brash.

01:27:16.000 And he's winning.

01:27:17.000 And he's winning.

01:27:18.000 But it's who he's winning against, though.

01:27:20.000 Yeah, but Anderson Silva, you gotta say, that's the most impressive fight that he won.

01:27:25.000 You gotta say, Anderson Silva's a legend.

01:27:28.000 Maybe he's 47 years old.

01:27:29.000 But that's the thing.

01:27:30.000 I had Jake Paul to win.

01:27:32.000 I knew Jake Paul was going to win just because of the age itself.

01:27:35.000 You know what I mean?

01:27:35.000 And then on top of that, I didn't see Jake Paul knocking out Anderson either, though.

01:27:39.000 You understand?

01:27:40.000 I just knew it would be competitive enough for Jake Paul to take it.

01:27:44.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:27:44.000 Take the win.

01:27:45.000 But at the same time, it's just like, bro, like...

01:27:49.000 If you fought Anderson when he was, you know what I'm saying, in his prime...

01:27:53.000 Bro, you getting knocked out.

01:27:55.000 Right.

01:27:55.000 Well, you talking about...

01:27:57.000 Most certainly in an MMA fight.

01:27:59.000 Most certainly.

01:27:59.000 Not even most certainly in an MMA fight.

01:28:00.000 Like, Anderson used to box boxers, bro.

01:28:03.000 And that's the thing, too.

01:28:03.000 I hate about MMA dudes, like, since we on here.

01:28:06.000 Like, a lot of these dudes be like, I'll box Canelo or I'll box, you know what I'm saying, Mayweather and all this stuff, but never get in the actual ring and just train and spar with actual real boxers from, like, whatever the neighborhood.

01:28:19.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:28:20.000 Like...

01:28:20.000 I used to actually box with the guys from the neighborhood in Pagedale Boxing, like Josh Temple, Devon Alexander's brother.

01:28:30.000 I had to actually work with actual boxers to realize, oh, this is a different type of game.

01:28:34.000 But when you're just boxing with the guys that's in the MMA room and you're thinking because you're touching them that you're pretty decent, you're going to find out if you actually get in with a real boxer before you actually compete with them that you don't know what you're doing.

01:28:46.000 You know?

01:28:46.000 Because there's certain little combinations and there's certain like cadences that we do as MMA fighters that will get us knocked out in front of a boxer.

01:28:53.000 Have you thought about competing as a boxer?

01:28:55.000 Hell yeah! 0.95

01:28:55.000 That's where the money is! 0.95

01:28:57.000 But the thing is, though, it's so diluted because the whole perception of MMA guys want to box is because of money.

01:29:03.000 Because I would never just get into it for money.

01:29:05.000 My biggest thing is I would actually commit myself to the sport of boxing.

01:29:09.000 I would get me a boxing coach.

01:29:12.000 Even George St. Pierre, I feel like he could have been pretty decent.

01:29:16.000 Had a great jab in MMA, but you see he was working with who?

01:29:19.000 Freddie Roach.

01:29:20.000 Right, right.

01:29:20.000 Anderson Silva also found a boxing coach, I forget who he was working with as well, but you could see him that he was training that art of boxing and he could actually compete in the actual ring back in the day.

01:29:31.000 So you would need a timeline.

01:29:33.000 Yeah, definitely need a timeline.

01:29:34.000 How much time do you think you would need?

01:29:37.000 Well, since I've already been working with boxers for a minute and I got a great boxing coach at STL Boxing, Reggie Thomas, shout out to him, I'll probably only need like two, three years to actually find me a profile.

01:29:48.000 You know, and actually work up.

01:29:50.000 But that's a realistic assessment.

01:29:52.000 I'm glad you said that.

01:29:52.000 Two, three years is correct.

01:29:54.000 Oh, yes, sir.

01:29:54.000 You can't just hop into it.

01:29:56.000 Your time ain't just going to work for you.

01:29:58.000 And then I'm not just going to call out the best in the world, you know, pound for pound.

01:30:02.000 I'm going to work my way up.

01:30:03.000 Right.

01:30:04.000 I'm going to get some knockouts. 1.00

01:30:04.000 I'm going to get some good little names. 1.00

01:30:06.000 I'm going to get some prospects.

01:30:07.000 And then once y'all see I got a resume now, now let's see what them names are talking about.

01:30:12.000 Now when you're talking about your future, how many more fights do you have on your UFC contract?

01:30:16.000 Oh man, I'm going to keep that on.

01:30:17.000 How many do I have on my contract right now?

01:30:19.000 Yeah.

01:30:20.000 I just signed.

01:30:21.000 So I still got four, I guess.

01:30:24.000 So the CC is the new fight on the contract.

01:30:26.000 So I got a four-fight contract.

01:30:28.000 When you get over those four fights, have you seriously considered possibly fighting?

01:30:33.000 I know exactly what my plan is.

01:30:34.000 What is your plan?

01:30:35.000 I can't give out the plan now. 1.00

01:30:37.000 You be a fool. 1.00

01:30:37.000 Yeah, I'll tell you later. 1.00

01:30:38.000 I won't tell you, buddy.

01:30:38.000 Yeah, all right.

01:30:39.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:30:39.000 I can't tell you the plan now.

01:30:40.000 But you do have a master plan.

01:30:42.000 I got a master plan, baby.

01:30:43.000 It's beautiful, too.

01:30:44.000 Yeah.

01:30:45.000 Yes, sir.

01:30:46.000 So we working on it.

01:30:46.000 So, ideally, when you move to 170, do you have a name in mind?

01:30:52.000 Oh, man!

01:30:53.000 Yes, sir.

01:30:54.000 So, first off, you already shouted out one of...

01:30:57.000 Masvidal.

01:30:58.000 I didn't even think about him.

01:30:59.000 Masvidal.

01:31:00.000 I didn't even think about him, right?

01:31:02.000 But for Masvidal, he's looking for the top.

01:31:05.000 Exactly.

01:31:05.000 So he'd be a waste of time.

01:31:06.000 He'd be a waste of time.

01:31:07.000 So a real fight, right?

01:31:09.000 So we just talked about it.

01:31:10.000 And even though he a killer, and I love him, right?

01:31:13.000 And just as a fan of MMA, Shavkot, right?

01:31:16.000 And he already got a fight booked with Jeff Neal.

01:31:18.000 I feel like if somebody falls out in that fight, I would love either one of those guys.

01:31:22.000 If somebody falls out.

01:31:23.000 Right.

01:31:24.000 You know what I mean?

01:31:24.000 Right.

01:31:25.000 Because both matchups between me and Jeff Neal, we kind of fight similarly, right?

01:31:29.000 So it'd be a test of skills right there.

01:31:31.000 And ShotKot, we just don't know about him yet. 0.62

01:31:33.000 Like, we're going to find out how good ShotKot is when he fights Jeff Neal, if he does or if he fights me.

01:31:38.000 We would really see how good he is.

01:31:39.000 You know what I mean?

01:31:39.000 When is that fight supposed to be taking place?

01:31:41.000 I have no clue.

01:31:42.000 I just know they looked at it.

01:31:43.000 January 23rd, I think.

01:31:44.000 Oh, okay.

01:31:44.000 Is that a fight night fight?

01:31:45.000 Yes.

01:31:45.000 Ooh, I might go to the Apex for that.

01:31:48.000 Is that the Apex?

01:31:49.000 Dude, I love going to the Apex.

01:31:51.000 Yeah, big fat.

01:31:52.000 I went to the Apex recently.

01:31:55.000 I watched Song Yudong and Corey Anderson.

01:32:00.000 No, uh...

01:32:02.000 No, you might have said it.

01:32:03.000 Corey Sanhagen.

01:32:04.000 Corey Sanhagen.

01:32:05.000 Sorry, Corey Anderson.

01:32:07.000 Shout out to Corey Anderson.

01:32:08.000 He's killing it in Bellator.

01:32:10.000 But Sanhagen and Song Yudan was a wild fight.

01:32:13.000 And to be there live with very few people in the crowd, that apex is something special, man.

01:32:19.000 I hated the fact that fighters had to fight there during the pandemic, but I loved being there.

01:32:24.000 I think for me right now, like, even shout out to my man Charles Johnson.

01:32:28.000 He got a fight coming up.

01:32:29.000 You remember Charles?

01:32:30.000 Yes, yes.

01:32:30.000 Energy!

01:32:31.000 He finally in the UFC. You know what I mean?

01:32:33.000 Dangerous flyway.

01:32:34.000 Big facts, man.

01:32:35.000 Big flyway.

01:32:36.000 So we got another fight November 19th in Vegas.

01:32:40.000 But I feel like it's just a good start for a lot of guys in the UFC. You know what I mean?

01:32:43.000 Sure.

01:32:44.000 Get their feet wet in the apex.

01:32:45.000 You know what I mean?

01:32:46.000 Because the lights ain't so bright.

01:32:48.000 It's not like a whole arena and stuff.

01:32:49.000 You still get an audience.

01:32:50.000 You still get a little feel for it.

01:32:52.000 But I feel like that's where guys need to start off at.

01:32:55.000 You know what I mean?

01:32:56.000 At the Apex and then work their way up to a bigger venue type stuff.

01:32:59.000 No, I would agree with that.

01:33:00.000 I think the Apex is a good start off for a lot of guys.

01:33:02.000 No location for this one, yeah.

01:33:03.000 Okay, does not have a location.

01:33:05.000 It might not be the Apex.

01:33:06.000 And see, look.

01:33:07.000 Kevin Gaslam and Nassadin.

01:33:08.000 Kelvin versus Nassadin is a very good fight.

01:33:11.000 That's a very good fight.

01:33:12.000 But I think Kelvin Gaslam could have been a world champion at 170. I really do.

01:33:16.000 He just likes eating.

01:33:17.000 He likes eating too much.

01:33:18.000 Look at that.

01:33:19.000 Shavkot versus Jeff Neal is good.

01:33:21.000 That's a good fight.

01:33:22.000 And that's the thing, though.

01:33:23.000 I know how talented Jeff Neal is, so we're going to really see how good Shavkot is.

01:33:27.000 And Carlos Hernandez and Nacimento is a great fight, too.

01:33:31.000 I ain't gonna lie to you.

01:33:31.000 I don't know who those is.

01:33:33.000 Hernandez is the guy that submitted... 0.99

01:33:35.000 What the fuck is his name? 1.00

01:33:37.000 That fucking gigantic jiu-jitsu guy. 1.00

01:33:40.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

01:33:41.000 Is that Fluffy?

01:33:42.000 Yes.

01:33:42.000 Fluffy Hernandez?

01:33:43.000 Okay, okay.

01:33:44.000 I didn't know his real name.

01:33:45.000 Okay, yeah, that's good.

01:33:46.000 Okay.

01:33:46.000 But who is he fighting then?

01:33:48.000 So who is Fluffy fighting?

01:33:51.000 What was it again?

01:33:53.000 Nacimento.

01:33:54.000 He's a very good fighter, too.

01:33:55.000 That's a good fight.

01:33:56.000 It's one of them underrated fights.

01:33:59.000 Yeah, there it is.

01:33:59.000 Who is that?

01:34:00.000 Oh, no, stop playing.

01:34:01.000 He's good.

01:34:02.000 How dare you?

01:34:02.000 How dare I what?

01:34:03.000 He's a good fighter.

01:34:04.000 All right, 13. Okay, 19, 19, 16. Oh, 13. Oh, so he's a submission artist.

01:34:08.000 Yeah, he's a Brazilian cat.

01:34:10.000 He's very good, man.

01:34:11.000 Okay.

01:34:12.000 He's very good.

01:34:12.000 That's a good fight.

01:34:13.000 I'm excited about that fight.

01:34:15.000 Oh, no, no.

01:34:15.000 Okay, so this is 125. So Fluffy ain't the right dude I'm talking about then.

01:34:19.000 That's 125?

01:34:20.000 That's 125. Oh, so that's a different Carlos Hernandez?

01:34:23.000 Oh, it is.

01:34:25.000 I pay attention to my weight class.

01:34:28.000 Fluffy Hernandez is not Carlos Hernandez.

01:34:30.000 What is his name?

01:34:31.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:34:33.000 Google Fluffy Hernandez.

01:34:35.000 But you're right about it because he submitted the dude that...

01:34:37.000 Anthony is his first name.

01:34:40.000 Yeah, Anthony.

01:34:41.000 Sorry, Anthony.

01:34:42.000 Who did he...

01:34:44.000 He just won recently as well.

01:34:46.000 And you know what's funny about this, though?

01:34:48.000 They called it the Kevin Holland effect, right?

01:34:50.000 Because...

01:34:51.000 Anthony Hernandez and myself lost to Kevin Holland, right?

01:34:54.000 Rodolfo Vieira, that's who he beat.

01:34:56.000 That was the big fight.

01:34:57.000 That was huge.

01:34:57.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:34:58.000 Well, not a lot of people.

01:34:59.000 And he beat Barrio in his last fight, too.

01:35:01.000 Whoever bet on him to win by submission got some good money.

01:35:04.000 Crazy money.

01:35:05.000 Yeah, big money.

01:35:06.000 Because that is unheard of.

01:35:07.000 The fact that he did that, he was able to submit one of the greatest jiu-jitsu guys to ever compete in MMA. And that's another guy that's enormous for that weight class.

01:35:16.000 Oh, big fan. 0.99

01:35:16.000 If you're standing next to Vieira, you're like, how the fuck are you making 85? 0.99

01:35:21.000 He's so big. 0.97

01:35:22.000 So on top of just talking about that, right?

01:35:24.000 So a lot of people on the internet, man, they be going crazy, man.

01:35:26.000 But they was like, it's the Kevin Holland effect because Anthony Hernandez also lost to Kevin Holland.

01:35:32.000 And then I lost, right?

01:35:33.000 So when I came back, I did my crazy kick after losing to him.

01:35:36.000 Right.

01:35:36.000 After he came back, he did his crazy submission on, you know what I'm saying?

01:35:40.000 Didn't nobody expect it.

01:35:41.000 So he was like, man, hey, it might be a good thing to lose to Kevin Holland, man.

01:35:44.000 You might have your crazy little next fight.

01:35:45.000 Because my name blew up after that.

01:35:47.000 And then his name blew up.

01:35:48.000 You know what I mean?

01:35:50.000 So it's just crazy how the internet just be going wild like that.

01:35:52.000 It is interesting how one big moment can just catapult your career.

01:35:58.000 Yeah.

01:35:58.000 Well, I feel like it's only in MMA, bro, that it worked like that.

01:36:01.000 You know?

01:36:02.000 Because, like, you see a Marswood, you see a Diaz, you know what I mean? 1.00

01:36:05.000 Of course they didn't took losses, but all they needed was a couple wins, a couple good finishes, bro, and their name was, you know what I'm saying, massive.

01:36:11.000 Yeah.

01:36:11.000 At the end of the day, you know?

01:36:13.000 Well, that's also why you fight the way you fight, to get those big moments.

01:36:17.000 Yeah, true story.

01:36:18.000 Because you're like one of the most fan-friendly styles that's in the sport.

01:36:22.000 Well, it's just the people I used to watch and who I used to love watching, so I just imitated them, man.

01:36:27.000 Like I said, so Melvin Manoff was one of my favorite fighters, bro, to watch.

01:36:30.000 Rampage Jackson, man, with his personality outside the UFC and stuff.

01:36:34.000 And a lot of these guys that I used to be a fan of, those are the people that I emulated my style after.

01:36:40.000 And I just meshed my own type of style into it.

01:36:42.000 Melvin, man, Jesus Christ.

01:36:44.000 Melvin in his prime.

01:36:46.000 He was so fun to watch.

01:36:48.000 Without a doubt, one of the most all-time scariest fighters.

01:36:51.000 Pure savage, man.

01:36:52.000 And my man was only, what, five, what, eight, five, seven?

01:36:55.000 Yeah, he wasn't big.

01:36:57.000 And he was fighting like Tyrone Spawn.

01:37:00.000 Who else did he fight?

01:37:02.000 The Gohan Goku dude.

01:37:04.000 What's his name?

01:37:04.000 Yeah, Gokansaki.

01:37:05.000 Yeah, you know what I mean? 0.99

01:37:06.000 He fought fucking Mark Hunt. 0.99

01:37:08.000 He fought Mark Hunt in MMA. And knocked Mark Hunt out. 0.99

01:37:11.000 In the first round, quick.

01:37:12.000 Mark Hunt tried to come after him real quick.

01:37:14.000 He's like, nah, forget that, sat down.

01:37:16.000 He was so fast.

01:37:18.000 Melvin in his prime was so fast.

01:37:20.000 And so savage.

01:37:21.000 Those kicks were just insane.

01:37:23.000 Yeah, bro.

01:37:24.000 A whole different level, man.

01:37:25.000 Yeah.

01:37:25.000 Well, he was one of those guys out of Mike's gym, those do-or-die guys, you know?

01:37:29.000 Big fan.

01:37:29.000 Just like Badr Hari.

01:37:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:37:32.000 Whatever they're doing in that gym, man, they are creating monsters.

01:37:35.000 I don't even know if it's the gym, but the people that they bring in.

01:37:38.000 Mm-hmm.

01:37:38.000 You know?

01:37:39.000 Like this type of...

01:37:41.000 The lifestyle that you live and your upbringing is the biggest thing, and that's what makes for a great fighter.

01:37:47.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:37:48.000 I don't know much of Melvin Manoff's past or anything like that, but they were just talking about how you just come from humble beginnings and everything like that and how life was hard.

01:37:55.000 You know what I mean?

01:37:56.000 And I believe we were talking about Francis Ngannou in the back or whatever, but we were just talking about how great of a fighter he is because of all the things that he had went through.

01:38:05.000 And when you see him walk around and the way he carries himself, you can just tell, like, can't nothing faze him.

01:38:10.000 Right.

01:38:10.000 Can't nothing hurt him.

01:38:11.000 Right.

01:38:11.000 Just a fearless fighter, you know what I'm saying?

01:38:13.000 But it was all because of what he experienced in his life that led to, like I said, so making fighting real easy now.

01:38:18.000 Did you hear the story that he told on this podcast?

01:38:21.000 Yeah, of course.

01:38:22.000 Crazy.

01:38:22.000 It's wild.

01:38:23.000 Crazy.

01:38:23.000 On some movie-type stuff, you know what I mean?

01:38:25.000 Like, come on, bro, you know?

01:38:26.000 And just to believe, like, to keep going through that, right?

01:38:29.000 Yeah.

01:38:29.000 Like, he...

01:38:31.000 And that's the thing, too.

01:38:32.000 He could have risked dying to go through that journey.

01:38:36.000 He did risk dying.

01:38:37.000 I know, but multiple times.

01:38:38.000 Eight times he got arrested.

01:38:40.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:38:40.000 Sent back to the desert.

01:38:41.000 Right.

01:38:42.000 And he was like, I'm going to keep going until I get there.

01:38:44.000 Yeah.

01:38:45.000 Like, come on now.

01:38:46.000 That's perseverance right there.

01:38:47.000 That's real perseverance.

01:38:48.000 Yeah, bro.

01:38:48.000 So that right there alone, like I said, you can use those as examples that people actually go through to not stop doing what you're doing.

01:38:56.000 Because I almost gave up on Dream on some bullshit. 0.63

01:39:01.000 Back in the past, when I used to have a gym, I finished MMA. That's where I started. 0.98

01:39:07.000 That's where I developed my skills a little bit.

01:39:10.000 But the promoter himself, me and him, we was real close.

01:39:14.000 It was almost like on a father and son relationship type thing.

01:39:18.000 And at the end of the day, you know, I was never looking at it as business, you know.

01:39:22.000 He was always booking me up for fights and always, you know, putting me out there on like a main event or a main card and stuff like that and people would come and watch me fight and I would be cool to do it because I just wanted to fight, you know.

01:39:33.000 That's all I wanted to do.

01:39:34.000 I had no other intentions, not even making money.

01:39:36.000 I just wanted to compete and that was it.

01:39:39.000 And, you know, not saying he used me, but he used me.

01:39:42.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:39:42.000 Because he making money.

01:39:43.000 He making good money.

01:39:45.000 So he wasn't thinking about your overall career?

01:39:47.000 Hell no.

01:39:48.000 He wanted to keep me stuck in St. Louis.

01:39:50.000 But I didn't know no better anyway. 0.99

01:39:52.000 So my thing is, I didn't want to reach out and find different other places to fight because I'm like, shit, I'm getting fights hit. 0.98

01:39:58.000 Because he's a promoter.

01:40:00.000 So, uh, at the end of the day, you know, um, once I started to grow as a fighter and stuff like that, I ended up getting a Bellator fight.

01:40:06.000 I only got, like, a one-fight contract deal when Bellator came to St. Louis.

01:40:09.000 So they'll do stuff like this, right?

01:40:11.000 Bellator comes to St. Louis and they assign, like, the local fighters on the prelim, right?

01:40:16.000 You get a one-fight contract deal, but you would just fight the dudes that you would have fought on the local promotion, you know, anyway, but now you just fight them on the Bellator show.

01:40:24.000 But I end up showing out for Bellator, end up going crazy.

01:40:26.000 I fought, uh, I know his name.

01:40:29.000 I know his name. 1.00

01:40:30.000 Damn, bro. 0.99

01:40:31.000 That's sad, bro. 0.99

01:40:32.000 You know, I be forgetting my man's name sometimes, man, but I think his name's like Chris something.

01:40:35.000 Anyways, I end up beating him.

01:40:37.000 Beating him in the second round.

01:40:40.000 This is when I first met Big John McCarthy, right?

01:40:43.000 So this is the first time, like, a big promotion, a big-name referee actually, like, refereeing my fight.

01:40:48.000 So I end up beating dude, you know, end up getting signed to Bellator later on.

01:40:52.000 But before I had signed to Bellator, I looked for Jesse for advice.

01:40:58.000 I was like, hey man, should I read over this contract?

01:40:59.000 He was like, just sign it.

01:41:00.000 Like, don't even worry about it.

01:41:01.000 Like, this is the best contract you will ever see in your life.

01:41:04.000 Just sign the contract, right?

01:41:05.000 So I ended up signing the contract, doing whatever, you know what I mean?

01:41:08.000 Ended up taking my first loss in Israel, whatever.

01:41:11.000 Once I took my first loss, they kind of held me back for a minute.

01:41:15.000 You know, I got a KO loss against Jackie Goss, but like, it took like seven months.

01:41:20.000 Eight months before I could even get back into actually competing.

01:41:23.000 But I was already ready.

01:41:24.000 I was like, bro, I can fight again.

01:41:25.000 I'm good.

01:41:26.000 Because sometimes they'll put that restriction on you for you not to fight for a certain amount of time.

01:41:31.000 After KO. But I was already cleared.

01:41:33.000 I'm like, hey, I'm ready to fight again.

01:41:35.000 So I ended up getting another fight.

01:41:36.000 And this was with Justin Patterson.

01:41:39.000 I believe his name is.

01:41:41.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:41:41.000 So once I fought him, whatever, I had to...

01:41:44.000 String another fight.

01:41:46.000 String layoff.

01:41:47.000 It was another like eight, seven months again.

01:41:50.000 So with me, I'm getting paid, but I'm not really making no real money.

01:41:54.000 And all I'm doing is training.

01:41:55.000 All I'm doing is fighting.

01:41:56.000 I'm not doing nothing else.

01:41:57.000 All I'm doing is just focusing on that.

01:41:59.000 So I'm really kind of just living off of these checks.

01:42:03.000 And I'm not being smart about it because all I'm doing is just fighting.

01:42:06.000 This is what's going to work out.

01:42:08.000 So, they end up giving me pretty much four fights.

01:42:12.000 So, I end up fighting Vinicius DeJesus and they end up fighting Logan Storley.

01:42:17.000 Whatever.

01:42:18.000 So, I only had four fights within like a two-year period.

01:42:21.000 So, I went two one year and two the other.

01:42:23.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:42:24.000 Not enough.

01:42:26.000 Not enough.

01:42:26.000 I wouldn't even close.

01:42:27.000 No.

01:42:28.000 Not to eat.

01:42:29.000 No.

01:42:30.000 And also to stay active.

01:42:32.000 Exactly, right?

01:42:33.000 So, but my thing on top of that, just going into the story, I almost, you know what I'm saying, just gave up on it.

01:42:38.000 But, you know, I was like, damn, man, I kind of just, like, lost out on a lot of experience, you know what I mean?

01:42:42.000 Because, like, I was 22 when I got signed. 0.96

01:42:46.000 You know, I was 24 then. 0.96

01:42:47.000 You know, so I'm just like, damn, I could have had a bunch more fights than what I had.

01:42:51.000 So, Bellator ended up cutting me, though, right? 0.96

01:42:54.000 Ended up letting me go.

01:42:55.000 So with all this being said, me and the promoter, whatever, we was bumping heads on a lot of things because I was like, bro, I want to learn more.

01:43:03.000 I want to do more.

01:43:04.000 Like, you know what I'm saying?

01:43:05.000 Like, but I feel like I'm being held back.

01:43:06.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:43:07.000 So he would never really communicate with me what was really going on, you know?

01:43:11.000 And the thing is, the only thing, like, my man was just using me for, like, the potential to get more clients in the gym.

01:43:17.000 Because they would use my name like, hey, we got a Bellator fighter here, he's a trainer here, and all this other stuff.

01:43:22.000 And they would use that to sell more people just to sign up for the gym. 0.75

01:43:26.000 And it is what it is, but I just didn't like that.

01:43:30.000 So how'd you get out of that?

01:43:32.000 I just left.

01:43:33.000 I was like, man, forget this gym.

01:43:34.000 You know what I mean?

01:43:35.000 I literally was just like, man, forget everything.

01:43:36.000 Because once I got cut from Bellator, you know what I mean? 0.98

01:43:39.000 I was just like, man, that's some bullshit because this is the highest level of promotion. 0.95

01:43:43.000 Now I got to go right back into fighting on Shamrock. 1.00

01:43:46.000 That's some bullshit, right? 0.99

01:43:47.000 So I left the gym and I did my own thing. 0.99

01:43:50.000 But the thing is, I ain't had no connections.

01:43:52.000 I have no network, as in people to reach out to.

01:43:57.000 So when I was dealing with Jesse, he provided all them things for me.

01:44:02.000 The gym, the information for instructions, and also the promotion for the fight.

01:44:09.000 So those are the main things that I need, and I didn't have it at that point, you know?

01:44:12.000 So I had to hop from gym to gym and try to find me another spot.

01:44:16.000 But every gym that I found, man, was kind of whack, you know what I mean?

01:44:19.000 I was like, bro, these ain't the ones I want to be at, you know?

01:44:21.000 Because just, like, the instruction wasn't there, or they weren't able to find me fights.

01:44:26.000 It'd be, like, multiple little reasons.

01:44:27.000 So I was like, man, why don't I just start doing this on my own?

01:44:30.000 So I started hitting YouTube like crazy, you know?

01:44:32.000 And I started just watching and just being a student of the actual craft and the actual sport itself.

01:44:38.000 Like, what were you watching on YouTube?

01:44:40.000 Thousands of things, man.

01:44:41.000 I mean, it got to the point where it was so crazy.

01:44:43.000 I was watching Wing Chun, bro.

01:44:45.000 Like, so Master Wu.

01:44:46.000 I don't know if you know him.

01:44:48.000 Master Wong, I think his name is.

01:44:49.000 He does like a lot of self-defense moves, you know what I mean, online.

01:44:53.000 But he does funny instructional videos.

01:44:56.000 But I used to watch him all the time.

01:44:58.000 I watched Shane Fassin.

01:44:59.000 I don't know if you know who that is.

01:45:00.000 No.

01:45:00.000 You know, but actually, if you can look him up.

01:45:03.000 Okay.

01:45:03.000 So he does fight tips, whatever.

01:45:05.000 And he shows like all different things.

01:45:07.000 But these are the things that was like the foundation of me learning.

01:45:09.000 What's Shane Fassin?

01:45:10.000 Fasen?

01:45:10.000 Yeah, Fasen.

01:45:11.000 I don't know how to really spell his last name.

01:45:13.000 F-A-A-Z-E-N or something. 1.00

01:45:16.000 And you got it?

01:45:17.000 Jamie's got it.

01:45:18.000 So his YouTube channel is just all instructional stuff?

01:45:21.000 Yeah, all instructional stuff like this.

01:45:23.000 So this is who I started off with.

01:45:24.000 So that's just his Instagram.

01:45:26.000 But his YouTube got like millions of followers on it though.

01:45:29.000 Let's check it out.

01:45:31.000 Interesting.

01:45:32.000 And so his whole thing is just, just instructionals?

01:45:36.000 Big facts, right?

01:45:37.000 Oh, Muay Thai, rock, paper, scissors theory.

01:45:40.000 Oh, okay. 0.99

01:45:41.000 So he's one of those dudes who's just breaking shit down constantly. 0.91

01:45:43.000 Man, he got countless stuff on there.

01:45:45.000 And I'm not saying he's the best instructor at all, but when you're talking about you just need more knowledge, you need more information.

01:45:52.000 These are the type of videos that I was watching.

01:45:54.000 It's amazing how many of those there are out there now.

01:45:56.000 It's so good.

01:45:57.000 For a young fighter, it's such a good time to learn.

01:46:01.000 There's so much knowledge out there.

01:46:03.000 There's so much data.

01:46:04.000 And there's so many people like him that are obsessed with communicating.

01:46:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:46:10.000 And then he was, you know, he used to work with, not work with, but, like, he had Farage as a hobby on there, you know what I mean?

01:46:16.000 Breaking stuff down with him and stuff like that.

01:46:18.000 And I got to see different, like, real coaches and how to, yeah, so this other guy, yeah, Master Wong, right here.

01:46:23.000 So, like, this was, like, the street fighting element and all this other stuff and different techniques, but...

01:46:28.000 Because I didn't know, some of these guys be sometimes low-key, like, full of it, right?

01:46:33.000 What is he telling you to do there?

01:46:34.000 I'm curious.

01:46:35.000 What's he telling you to do there?

01:46:36.000 Guys grabbing them?

01:46:37.000 What's the move?

01:46:38.000 You're about to turn it up a little bit.

01:46:39.000 It's not going to go very much.

01:46:40.000 My head is down. 0.81

01:46:41.000 Headbutt me.

01:46:42.000 It's not going to go very far either.

01:46:44.000 Second thing you learn to understand is that on the floor.

01:46:48.000 Hey, he fast as hell though.

01:46:50.000 He be...

01:46:51.000 Okay, this is the problem. 0.97

01:46:53.000 Somebody come along and try to get your hand both into hand of that and try to smack you in the face. 1.00

01:46:58.000 You might be beating him up.

01:47:00.000 You might be doing something naughty.

01:47:01.000 I got no idea.

01:47:03.000 This is the question somebody asking me.

01:47:05.000 Somebody grab you in the collar and pick you up.

01:47:08.000 What sort of thing do you do?

01:47:09.000 Let me show you a few basic things you should do.

01:47:12.000 He's getting that interesting combination of like an Asian accent with an English accent.

01:47:19.000 I think he'd be capping though, you know?

01:47:22.000 Well, he's being entertaining.

01:47:24.000 Exactly, and that's what it is at the end of the day.

01:47:26.000 So this is mostly like street fighting stuff?

01:47:28.000 Yeah, self-defense stuff.

01:47:30.000 Like just quick ways to like end a fight, you know?

01:47:33.000 Instead of like hitting combinations.

01:47:34.000 I want one strike, you know what I mean?

01:47:36.000 End a fight type thing.

01:47:37.000 So you go from that.

01:47:39.000 To just watching YouTube videos, training yourself.

01:47:43.000 Did you have people that you were training with and sparring?

01:47:46.000 So I was just working with the guys that I was working with at Finney's.

01:47:49.000 So my close friend, the one that you just met, he's like a brother to me.

01:47:54.000 So we used to wrestle together in Marquette.

01:47:56.000 And I actually got him into MMA. And the thing is, he's been watching the UFC for the longest time.

01:48:04.000 But the actual training of it, he ended up coming to Finney's MMA only because of me.

01:48:08.000 So we end up training with each other, and like I said, once I split ways with them, I was working with him the whole time.

01:48:14.000 So things that I would watch, things that I would see on YouTube, I was like, hey, bro, let's practice this.

01:48:18.000 Let's do this, you know?

01:48:19.000 And I actually got good at holding mitts, you know what I mean?

01:48:22.000 Just because I wanted to see a lot of things and just work a lot of things that he couldn't actually hold for me, so I had to hold it for him, you know, to actually get it down just a little bit.

01:48:32.000 And to be honest with you, like I said, That got to show me a lot of different, just creative ways to throw your hands, creative ways to throw combinations.

01:48:40.000 Like, you don't have to throw it like a box.

01:48:41.000 You don't have to throw it like a kickbox.

01:48:43.000 Like, you can add those fun, traditional moves in there with the fundamental basics, you know?

01:48:49.000 And that's what we was doing.

01:48:50.000 We was just having fun and just doing that.

01:48:52.000 But the thing is, though...

01:48:54.000 I wasn't able to find any fights while I was doing this type of stuff.

01:48:57.000 How much time was going on here between you leaving that gym?

01:49:00.000 So I got cut in 2018. That's when I left the gym, in 2018. And then I was able to get a fight in 2019. It was only a year's time, but I felt like I got played with the two years that...

01:49:12.000 In 2016 to 2018, I felt like I got played, you know what I mean?

01:49:17.000 And not having that many fights, and I was still struggling as a fighter.

01:49:20.000 And I was with Bellator, and I was still struggling low-key.

01:49:23.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:49:23.000 So I felt like I wasted a good amount of time within that game, but I didn't know when I was going to be able to fight again.

01:49:30.000 That was the problem.

01:49:31.000 So even though it was only like, well, it was kind of close to two years, but it was still just a year and some change that I was able to find another fight, it still felt like it was so stretched out because I didn't see when I was going to be able to find another fight.

01:49:43.000 So you were really considering quitting?

01:49:45.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:49:46.000 I mean, well, actually, I wouldn't consider it.

01:49:47.000 I actually did it.

01:49:48.000 So I went about the part of just training, but I just gave up on actually, like, hunting the dream down.

01:49:54.000 I just got a regular job, you know what I mean?

01:49:56.000 I was taking care of my grandmother at the time, like, which that was a big deal as well.

01:50:01.000 I had moved in with her because I didn't have no house.

01:50:03.000 I didn't have anything to my name.

01:50:05.000 Unfortunately, my grandmother was stricken with ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, you know what I mean?

01:50:09.000 And that's a rough one.

01:50:11.000 I have a friend going through that right now.

01:50:12.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:50:13.000 I'm sorry to hear that.

01:50:14.000 But it's a neuron disease where it shuts down all your motor functions.

01:50:19.000 And it kills the muscles where it puts you in paralysis almost.

01:50:23.000 And that's what I was dealing with the whole time as well, too.

01:50:26.000 So a lot on my mind outside of that.

01:50:29.000 So I was like, man, I can't be focused on trying to chase a dream when I got to help my grandmother wash up.

01:50:33.000 Right.

01:50:33.000 And eat and all this other type of stuff, you know?

01:50:36.000 So yeah, I had to go through that first, right?

01:50:39.000 And once I went through that, it's funny how once I kept training and kept motivated with just my friends around me, even Mariah Beck, that's one of the kids that trained with me at Phineas MMA, but anytime I called him up, he'll work with me.

01:50:51.000 R.I.P. to my man Ryan Sutton.

01:50:53.000 He was one of the guys that came out with me in my first UFC fight, but he passed away.

01:50:58.000 But that's another person that I looked to and called in order to get some training in.

01:51:02.000 But it was just a small group of guys that I would call up to just ask to get some work in.

01:51:07.000 And these guys are the people that I depended on in order to get my mental...

01:51:11.000 Just to hit pass outside in Forest Park in St. Louis, you know?

01:51:14.000 And this whole time I've been doing that, and I just stopped chasing after the whole goal of getting a fight.

01:51:20.000 And then one day, a guy named Mike Rogers hit me up because I was, you know, coming in at his gym, not in and out, but just coming there just to get some sparring work in, you know what I mean?

01:51:28.000 But not actually, like, learn anything, but just some sparring work.

01:51:31.000 And he told me, like, hey, man, LFA hit me up.

01:51:33.000 I was like, oh, for real?

01:51:34.000 He was like, yeah, man.

01:51:34.000 Like, if you want to, I can give you their number or whatever and then you can contact the matchmaker yourself because he didn't want to do the in-between talk for me.

01:51:41.000 Like, he didn't want to be like a management because I didn't have no manager.

01:51:43.000 I didn't have nothing at the time.

01:51:46.000 So he told me about LFA and I ended up getting a fight with LFA against Chris Harris.

01:51:50.000 But the funny thing about that, that little setup was that I only took the fight because I needed some money, some extra money.

01:51:58.000 That was it.

01:51:59.000 But the only reason why I took the fight as well, because I couldn't find any other fight at welterweight.

01:52:06.000 So I had to fight at middleweight at 185. And they tried to tell me it was a catchweight.

01:52:10.000 I was like, what's the weight?

01:52:11.000 I was like, is it 175 or 180?

01:52:14.000 They was like, no, it's 185. I was like, man, that's a whole weight class.

01:52:17.000 So when they told me that, whatever, I watched the dude, I did my own film study on Chris Harrison.

01:52:22.000 I was like, alright, I'll take it.

01:52:23.000 It's easy money.

01:52:23.000 I need the bread anyway.

01:52:25.000 And funny enough, that's why I stayed at 185. That was the only reason why I moved up.

01:52:29.000 Because didn't nobody want to fight me at 170 at what's the way that whole time, you know?

01:52:34.000 So I took that fight, got that fight, but I didn't worry about it.

01:52:37.000 Once I won that fight and got that little check that I got from LFA, I was back to work doing what I was doing, just chilling.

01:52:42.000 And then a year later, I still get another call.

01:52:45.000 This is 2020 now.

01:52:47.000 From LFA to fight Gregory Rodriguez.

01:52:49.000 I don't know if you know who that is.

01:52:50.000 Robocop?

01:52:51.000 Yeah.

01:52:51.000 He's the one that got his head split.

01:52:54.000 He's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:52:55.000 Yeah, yeah, but I needed that bread at the time too. 1.00

01:52:58.000 So I took that fight with him.

01:53:00.000 It was going to be for an LFA title.

01:53:03.000 And unfortunately, he had pulled out the fight.

01:53:06.000 So they had to find me another fighter.

01:53:09.000 And like I said, funny enough, me not even chasing anything, but people just coming to me now, I was able to get these fights.

01:53:17.000 When did you wind up at the new gym?

01:53:20.000 That wasn't until the kick.

01:53:23.000 Really?

01:53:24.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:53:24.000 I didn't have no team.

01:53:26.000 I just had the people I told you I was working with.

01:53:27.000 So even the Kevin Holland fight, no team?

01:53:29.000 The guy that passed away, R.I.P. Ryan Sutton, he the one that helped corner me in that fight, but he was just a teammate.

01:53:35.000 He was going through stuff in his own life as well.

01:53:37.000 So you were just kind of on your own training yourself?

01:53:40.000 Yeah.

01:53:41.000 Wow.

01:53:42.000 Yes, sir.

01:53:43.000 Fighting at a world-class level, on your own, training yourself in the UFC against top guys.

01:53:50.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:53:51.000 Wow.

01:53:52.000 So just to even be able to get there the way we got there is crazy in itself.

01:53:56.000 Because like I said, I only took those LFA fights because I needed a little bit of money.

01:53:59.000 But I wasn't like, all right, I'm going to be in the UFC one day or I'm working towards to be a UFC champion.

01:54:04.000 I just was like, I need money or just for my mental health, I kept training.

01:54:08.000 But I want you to speak to the difference in the structure.

01:54:11.000 Once you got to this new gym and all this structure that you're praising and the way that your new trainer trains you and the new environment, how much different is that and how much of an impact has that had on your career?

01:54:22.000 I think the biggest part of it was just the commitment that they had to me that I never got from that other gym.

01:54:29.000 So all the information that I had to find on my own, they had information for me.

01:54:34.000 So I was actually learning.

01:54:35.000 So instead of trying to figure out the information on my own, I already had people that was already great at what they did, and they were showing me stuff.

01:54:42.000 And now I'm able to learn a little faster and more efficiently, if that makes sense.

01:54:46.000 That is so incredible that you were fighting on a world-class level with no coaching.

01:54:50.000 Nah.

01:54:51.000 I mean, I did have world-class coaches because you got to just imagine like the people that I've been watching for like influences as instructors on YouTube.

01:54:59.000 Like I said, even from yourself, bro, like even if you don't call yourself a coach, like that sidekick, I only knew how to throw a sidekick because I watched your video.

01:55:05.000 That's hilarious.

01:55:06.000 It's hilarious, but it's the truth.

01:55:09.000 I wish I was around to show you in real life.

01:55:12.000 Big facts, you know what I mean?

01:55:13.000 But even though you showed the internet and everything and YouTube, you showed a thousand if not a million people that kick.

01:55:21.000 But it's about people actually taking that information and applying it to their own life if they want to.

01:55:26.000 And that's why I like Bruce Lee so much because Like, that's why, you know, Jeet Kune Do is such an awesome style because it was his own style.

01:55:33.000 It was his own form of fighting that he took and he mastered, but he took it from other places.

01:55:38.000 And he did it back when that was taboo.

01:55:41.000 Big facts, you know what I mean?

01:55:42.000 That was very taboo.

01:55:43.000 Even when I was doing Taekwondo, you weren't supposed to do other things.

01:55:46.000 You were supposed to only concentrate on the art that you did.

01:55:49.000 Big facts.

01:55:49.000 And Bruce Lee was like, that's not smart.

01:55:51.000 Not at all.

01:55:52.000 Because your style of fighting should be like a fingerprint.

01:55:55.000 You should have your own style.

01:55:57.000 It shouldn't be like a person, when you look at them, you're like, oh, they doing kickboxing.

01:56:01.000 Oh, they doing kickboxing.

01:56:03.000 Oh, that's a wrestler.

01:56:04.000 It's a mixed martial arts.

01:56:05.000 You should be trying to pick the pieces in the puzzle, like what they actually doing.

01:56:08.000 Well, you mostly see that now.

01:56:10.000 You see very few real specialists now that are only doing one thing.

01:56:15.000 You still do though, low key.

01:56:15.000 I mean, we getting there, but I still haven't seen that actual, like, for real, on some boy good.

01:56:20.000 Like I said, man, I'm from, like, you know what I mean, watching a lot of movies and stuff, but, like, you know, one of those complete fighters, you know, except for, like, Demetrius, you know what I mean, or GSP, you know?

01:56:31.000 There ain't a lot of those out there, though, in my opinion.

01:56:33.000 Well, I think you're seeing more of them now than ever before, but we have to also take into consideration that MMA, in terms of real sports, is relatively recent.

01:56:41.000 There's no sport like MMA where if you go and watch the fighters from 1993 and watch them from 2022, they're completely different.

01:56:50.000 Yeah, because the athlete changes, though.

01:56:53.000 So that's why I would say that, but I feel like, yet again, so Habib, perfect example, he retired.

01:56:59.000 He was only winning in one type of way.

01:57:02.000 He's a real specialist.

01:57:04.000 Yeah, he's a real specialist. 0.99

01:57:06.000 But man, good at that fucking special. 0.99

01:57:09.000 Jesus Christ, he was so good. 0.99

01:57:11.000 A lot of people can't stop it.

01:57:13.000 But I'm just trying to think, good people that...

01:57:16.000 They fight a certain type of style, which is great for them, and it fits their way, but a Hamza, I wouldn't call him a complete fighter.

01:57:24.000 I feel like he's just great at what he does, and if he's able to fight another grappler, he's able to switch it up to a striking prowess, but even then, Gilbert Burns was touching him.

01:57:34.000 Yes.

01:57:35.000 Because I would say the Murchard fight, but he only got one punch out of that.

01:57:39.000 But you can't call him no great striker because he was able to land that one punch.

01:57:42.000 But when I seen that he fought Gilbert and he started to stand with him, I'm like, oh, you're not a great striker.

01:57:47.000 Because Gilbert Burns is not a great striker, but he was able to land I don't know how many punches on Hamza in that fight.

01:57:52.000 Gilbert's a wild man.

01:57:53.000 Gilbert's a wild man.

01:57:56.000 You can be a wild man all you want to, but at the end of the day, it still takes technique in the striking room.

01:58:00.000 Oh, he's got technique too, but it's just one of those things where I think Hamza tried to walk him down.

01:58:05.000 You want to engage like that with Gilbert, you're going to get caught.

01:58:10.000 I'm not disrespecting these guys, but they're good at what they're good at.

01:58:14.000 You know?

01:58:14.000 That's all I'm trying to say.

01:58:16.000 Like, Gilbert Burns is a monster, but you see when Hamza had took him down and Gilbert Burns threw up them legs a couple times.

01:58:21.000 Hamza didn't like that.

01:58:22.000 He's like, let's stay on the feet for a minute.

01:58:24.000 You know?

01:58:24.000 And then I realized, oh, Hamza ain't good at striking because he just stands right there.

01:58:29.000 And also, as a matter of fact, I shouldn't even say it because I could potentially fight this man one day.

01:58:33.000 But one thing that he does that is terrible, he only hits on one side.

01:58:38.000 He favors one side too much as a striker.

01:58:41.000 And we watch it all the time.

01:58:43.000 Now, you can take it back and watch Hansa fight, but when you watch it, you be like, oh, that's what he's talking about.

01:58:48.000 Right hands.

01:58:48.000 All day.

01:58:50.000 Right hands, right feet.

01:58:52.000 Uppercut all day.

01:58:53.000 And he favors it.

01:58:54.000 No setup.

01:58:55.000 Everything just with power and intention to knock you out, which is great and all, but you're still putting yourself in a position to get hurt.

01:59:02.000 Were you stunned by that Kevin Holland fight with him?

01:59:05.000 No, no, no.

01:59:06.000 I wasn't stunned because I knew Hans Out was going to immediately try to shoot, you know?

01:59:10.000 And Kevin is not like no real, real wrestler.

01:59:12.000 You know, he worked with DC and he said he worked with Johnny Hendricks and all this stuff.

01:59:16.000 Like, it takes years.

01:59:17.000 Like, I come from a wrestling background. 0.98

01:59:19.000 Like, bro, I was a trash-ass wrestler in high school, you know? 0.80

01:59:23.000 It took me years to kind of understand what wrestling is, and I'm still trying to figure it out. 0.87

01:59:27.000 But I know I'm a better wrestler than the majority of guys that's at the 185 division, some of them, you know?

01:59:33.000 But now I'm going to have to focus on grappling even more because I'm going to a grapple Heavy division, which is at 170, you know?

01:59:41.000 You have Hamza, Kobe Covington, Kamar Uzman, you know what I'm saying?

01:59:46.000 These guys are grappling heavy, so if I'm able to get up to that level and be able to compete with them, it just stuffed the shot.

01:59:53.000 I know that they couldn't compete with me on the feet.

01:59:57.000 When you think about your transition from being self-coached to now being on your own team, It's like you have so much potential right now.

02:00:08.000 There's so much potential to get even so much better.

02:00:10.000 This is all I get to focus on now.

02:00:12.000 Even with my grandmother, her daughter, my auntie, came back to live with her, to take care of her because I wouldn't be able to be in the UFC if I had to keep taking care of my grandma. 0.99

02:00:26.000 Lowkey, people don't even understand.

02:00:27.000 That's a 24-hour thing.

02:00:29.000 You understand?

02:00:31.000 And it was sad because I had to leave my grandmother in the bed, you know, in order to go to work, to Walgreens, but I had to have a close job.

02:00:38.000 And I had to keep a monitor to watch her to make sure that she was fine.

02:00:41.000 You know, and everything that she needed, I had to leave the job.

02:00:43.000 You know, and I had to work overnights at Walgreens in order to make sure I check up on her throughout the day.

02:00:49.000 So I had to work the night shift, you know what I mean?

02:00:50.000 So when she slept, I was working.

02:00:52.000 And then, you know what I'm saying?

02:00:53.000 So just little things like that, you know, that it was hard to actually maintain an actual career as a fighter.

02:01:00.000 You understand?

02:01:01.000 When I was a kid, when I was 24, I lived with my grandmother for a while.

02:01:04.000 My grandmother and my grandfather.

02:01:05.000 My grandmother had a stroke and they gave her 72 hours to live and she wound up living for 12 years.

02:01:13.000 And I was there with my grandfather when my grandfather was taking care of her 24-7.

02:01:17.000 One thing that imparted upon me is that life is short, and that you gotta appreciate your health and your ability to do things now.

02:01:26.000 And appreciate it in a way where, knowing my grandmother when I was young, when she was this wild lady, and then seeing her, my grandmother went to jail for running numbers for the mob.

02:01:37.000 Okay, wow.

02:01:38.000 My grandmother was wild. 1.00

02:01:39.000 They tried to get her to give up names, and she's like, fuck that, I'm going to jail. 0.99

02:01:44.000 So we were always like, where's grandma? 0.99

02:01:46.000 Like, oh, she's visiting her auntie.

02:01:49.000 They lied to us.

02:01:50.000 And meanwhile, Grandma was in jail for running numbers. 1.00

02:01:54.000 It was kind of crazy.

02:01:55.000 So to see her when I was older, when I was 20, in my 20s, that sick and inability to move and pain all the time. 0.99

02:02:05.000 It was like, damn, you gotta do something with your life. 0.98

02:02:08.000 Yeah, I don't know. 0.99

02:02:09.000 That's 100%.

02:02:09.000 A short window.

02:02:10.000 So, and even with my grandmother going through that, you know, she still had great spirit, you know.

02:02:17.000 What's sad about ALS, you know, the first thing that went was her voice, you know what I mean?

02:02:22.000 Like, her voice became faint, you know what I mean?

02:02:24.000 She wasn't able to speak, you know, and all these other things.

02:02:28.000 But she's still able to smile.

02:02:30.000 And it's sad that about this disease, that can take that away as well.

02:02:36.000 But she's still able to smile and still able to laugh about certain things.

02:02:41.000 That's one thing about my grandma. 1.00

02:02:43.000 Her spirit is so...

02:02:46.000 It has such an impact that it can affect you.

02:02:49.000 Because she don't look down on herself because she was stricken with this terrible disease.

02:02:54.000 You understand?

02:02:55.000 It stands for amitrophic lateral sclerosis.

02:02:59.000 It's the actual name.

02:03:00.000 She even changed the acronym where ALS stands for abundance of love and support.

02:03:06.000 Because that's what you need in order to defeat something like this.

02:03:10.000 And Yeah.

02:03:22.000 Yeah.

02:03:29.000 You know, so I was willing to give up everything in order to take care of my grandmother.

02:03:33.000 That's beautiful.

02:03:33.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:03:34.000 I mean, it just had to be that way.

02:03:35.000 That speaks to your character.

02:03:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:03:36.000 But regardless, though, I wouldn't even be around, you know what I'm saying, if she was never around in the first place.

02:03:42.000 You understand?

02:03:42.000 Yeah.

02:03:43.000 But I understand what you're saying.

02:03:44.000 Like, that really shows me, like, anything I really even go through ain't really that hard.

02:03:48.000 Right.

02:03:48.000 Ain't that hard.

02:03:49.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:03:50.000 Like, we good.

02:03:50.000 We can get through it.

02:03:51.000 You know, so having her go through this type of experience and being able to see what she goes through, but how she's still able to hold her head high is beautiful.

02:03:59.000 That is beautiful.

02:04:00.000 And now, you know, and I feel like every fighter is not just their skills, but an accumulation of their life experiences that give them character.

02:04:10.000 And that most certainly gave you character.

02:04:13.000 I guess, you know what I mean?

02:04:14.000 Like I said, man, my granny took the responsibility up when nobody else wanted it, you know?

02:04:18.000 Like I said, I was, you know, with my mom and stuff, being a single mom, she raised me, so I was with her all the time.

02:04:24.000 Every single day I was with my mom, you know what I mean?

02:04:26.000 And if I wasn't with her, I was with my godmother, you know?

02:04:29.000 So I was around a lot of women at the time, and like I told you before, like, the male influences, the only thing I got was from TV and watching, you know, movies all the time.

02:04:37.000 You know, so having that, you know, and doing what I was doing, you know, it's just crazy that, you know, once my mother had passed away, unfortunately, some of the people that was in my life before left, too.

02:04:51.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:04:52.000 So, like, the people I used to always see or hang out around that was around my mom a lot when she passed away, you know what I'm saying?

02:04:58.000 It's like they passed away with her, you know, type stuff.

02:05:00.000 So my granny was the only person that really took the responsibility of raising me and taking forth that because I went through like a depressing stage like you know I mean I was never like um what's the word like never seen a therapist or nothing but like I felt like I went through a depressing stage after I lost my mom and it took me a while to even like speak to people you know.

02:05:20.000 It ain't like I turned mute or nothing, but it took me a while to even just be around other people because I was just so upset that the person that I was around all the time was just completely gone.

02:05:29.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:05:30.000 Just out of nowhere in my eyes.

02:05:32.000 And it took a minute for me to just accept the fact that she was gone.

02:05:37.000 I won't even say get over it, but I just forgot about my mom ever existing to get over the whole fact that she was gone in the first place.

02:05:48.000 I didn't even go to her burial, nothing.

02:05:52.000 I couldn't take it, you know what I'm saying?

02:05:54.000 So I was just like, man, maybe if I just forget about it, it'd be cool, whatever.

02:05:59.000 But on top of that, just understanding that life is short, like you were saying before, it's good just to go for your dreams and stuff like that.

02:06:08.000 Because I ain't trying to bounce into too much stuff, but Before, my granny even had ALS and stuff, and I was still in high school.

02:06:18.000 She was raising me the whole time.

02:06:21.000 I was kind of a bad kid, you know, in and out the house, doing what I wanted to do.

02:06:25.000 And I wasn't bad at robbing people or trying to gangbang or nothing like that, but I wanted to do what I wanted to do.

02:06:30.000 You know?

02:06:31.000 And being raised by so many women, like, you feel like you're the man the whole time, you know? 1.00

02:06:35.000 So eventually my grandmother ended up asking for my father's help in order to come back into my life and stuff like that and try to raise me, you know what I mean, or help raise me.

02:06:42.000 And I'm like 16 at the time, you know what I'm saying, 15 at the time.

02:06:46.000 And this is my first time really even meeting this man.

02:06:49.000 Wow.

02:06:49.000 You know?

02:06:50.000 So once I, you know, have an interaction with him, like, I was trying to tell my grandmother, like, bro, I don't need to stay with him.

02:06:56.000 I'll just leave.

02:06:57.000 I'll just, like, you know, live on my own.

02:06:58.000 You know what I'm saying? 0.99

02:06:59.000 I'll run away type shit. 1.00

02:07:00.000 Right. 1.00

02:07:01.000 You know what I mean?

02:07:02.000 But, you know, my dad was like, yeah, you being disrespectful, you, you know, acting out of pocket and stuff like that.

02:07:07.000 I was like, yeah, even if I is, what you gonna do about it?

02:07:09.000 You know?

02:07:10.000 And that's where we had a whole situation, a whole scenario.

02:07:13.000 So the only reason why this is crazy, right, is that, you know, I find out where my fighting power comes from.

02:07:19.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:07:20.000 It's from my pops, because my pops used to wrestle as well back in the day.

02:07:23.000 So when I used to wrestle in high school, I thought I was somebody special.

02:07:26.000 So when I got into it with my dad, whatever, and we was in the kitchen and stuff like that, you know, I thought I had the upper hand because, you know what I'm saying, I'm wrestling and whatnot.

02:07:35.000 And I remember I threw a punch, he blocked, he hit me dead in my chest, right?

02:07:38.000 I'm like, ooh, caved me in.

02:07:40.000 I ended up wrestling him.

02:07:41.000 I was like, alright, I wrestle, I'm gonna go ahead and take a shot on him.

02:07:43.000 As soon as I took a shot on him, because that was the only thing I was good at was a double leg, right?

02:07:47.000 That man power-driving, he grabbed my hips like this, picks me up, boom, slams me.

02:07:51.000 He's like, you ready to get back in the car?

02:07:52.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:07:53.000 You ready to get in the car?

02:07:54.000 I was like, oh yeah, I'm good, bro.

02:07:56.000 I ain't trying to fight you no more.

02:07:57.000 You know what I mean?

02:07:57.000 But the reason why I bring that up is because I realize I'm almost just like this dude.

02:08:03.000 You know, I never met him.

02:08:04.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:08:04.000 Just that fighter mentality, that fighter will.

02:08:07.000 You know what I mean?

02:08:07.000 That's where I get that from.

02:08:09.000 And it's crazy that even then, at that time, I never gave him a chance, unfortunately.

02:08:14.000 And without me giving them a chance and not getting to actually know him, I end up losing him as well.

02:08:20.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:08:20.000 So I end up losing my mom and my dad.

02:08:22.000 But the thing is, I never even got a chance to even try to talk to him and get to know him because I never, like, actually went about the opportunity to talk to him and speak to him.

02:08:31.000 Because he was almost like a big brother to me because we were both living with my grandpa, which is his dad.

02:08:37.000 So I feel like it was more like a big brother relationship between me and him.

02:08:42.000 And when I lost him and I didn't get the opportunity to actually experience him like I should have, by the time I wanted that, he was already gone.

02:08:51.000 But I mean, going as a teenager and just meeting him for the first time, you can't put that on you.

02:08:59.000 Nah, not at all.

02:09:00.000 Because I ain't gonna call this man daddy or nothing.

02:09:04.000 That's hard.

02:09:05.000 That's so hard.

02:09:06.000 No, big fact, man.

02:09:07.000 Did you call him by his first name?

02:09:10.000 Yeah, so I called him Marcus.

02:09:11.000 Wow.

02:09:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:09:12.000 That's weird enough as it is, right?

02:09:15.000 I mean, not at all because it's how I knew him.

02:09:17.000 Right, yeah.

02:09:17.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:09:18.000 Marcus.

02:09:19.000 Everybody used to call him Jug, too.

02:09:20.000 That was his nickname and stuff like that.

02:09:23.000 But that's the crazy part then.

02:09:26.000 Once, just growing up around him.

02:09:29.000 And it was only like a year time, too.

02:09:31.000 It was only about, like, a year where we was able to, like, actually be in the same household and actually speak to one another.

02:09:37.000 But everything that he used to do, I'd be like, there's certain things that I did as well that I was always wondering where I get it from, you know?

02:09:42.000 And I got exactly from him.

02:09:44.000 Like, we moved the same, we talked the same, we walked the same, and I was like, this is my first time really, like, meeting this, man.

02:09:49.000 That ought to be weird.

02:09:50.000 Yeah, it was a little weird, though.

02:09:51.000 I ain't gonna lie.

02:09:52.000 I ain't gonna lie.

02:09:53.000 But it made sense, though, where it came from.

02:09:56.000 Yeah, completely.

02:09:58.000 Well, all those things, that's a part of character.

02:10:00.000 That's a part of what makes you who you are.

02:10:02.000 I mean, I think people that come from an easy life have a very difficult time making it in the world of fighting.

02:10:09.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:10:11.000 It's not the same.

02:10:12.000 I mean, people have done it.

02:10:14.000 You know, the people that come from good households and good families.

02:10:16.000 B.J. Penn?

02:10:17.000 Yeah, B.J. Penn.

02:10:18.000 Well, George St. Pierre.

02:10:19.000 I mean, George St. Pierre was bullied when he was young, and that's what got him into martial arts, but he had a very good relationship with his parents.

02:10:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:10:26.000 But having a rough childhood is almost like a prerequisite to being a great fighter.

02:10:31.000 So many fighters come from, like, dark times.

02:10:35.000 Yeah, big fights.

02:10:36.000 I mean, like I said, your experiences alone can prepare you for fights.

02:10:39.000 And that's what makes some of the best fighters in the world.

02:10:42.000 But I feel like with everything that I went through, I guess you could say it prepared me for fighting, but it really showed me, and this is what I'm trying to get to, and I ain't trying to put all this shit together, but losing my mom and losing my dad just showed me, bro, just go for it.

02:10:58.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:10:58.000 Just like go for your dreams, man.

02:11:00.000 Go and do what you want to do.

02:11:01.000 You know what I mean?

02:11:02.000 Because at the end of the day, we only got one life.

02:11:03.000 Like my mom died at a pretty young age, like 35, 36. You know what I mean?

02:11:08.000 Dad died pretty young.

02:11:09.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:11:10.000 Almost getting to the age of 40. How did your dad die?

02:11:19.000 Overdose.

02:11:20.000 Yeah, overdose.

02:11:23.000 Whew.

02:11:24.000 Heroin overdose, unfortunately.

02:11:26.000 But I feel like he was trying to use that to block the pain or the stuff that he was dealing with.

02:11:31.000 Of course.

02:11:32.000 So many people are dealing with so much. 0.99

02:11:35.000 I mean, that's this fucking crazy dance of life. 1.00

02:11:39.000 And your dance is very crazy. 0.99

02:11:41.000 And that makes sense now, knowing your childhood, why you're so ferocious inside the octagon.

02:11:47.000 I didn't even think about it like that.

02:11:48.000 I didn't even think about it like that.

02:11:50.000 Think about the life experiences that you've had.

02:11:52.000 I mean, it is a major factor in what forms a man's personality.

02:11:58.000 And what you've gone through, those trials and tribulations, you can't substitute that.

02:12:04.000 Somebody either has that or they don't.

02:12:06.000 There's a fire that some dudes have, and you have it.

02:12:08.000 I appreciate it.

02:12:09.000 A lot of that comes from just bad times.

02:12:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:12:12.000 And also, man, it's just like, when I see that, right?

02:12:16.000 When my mom passing, when my dad passing, it's like, you know, the only people that know that are the people that's closest to us.

02:12:21.000 Right.

02:12:21.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:12:22.000 And my thing was, like, I just always wanted to leave my name here and print it somehow, some way, in some type of fashion, you know?

02:12:30.000 Because it's a fun little quote, you know what I mean, that I like.

02:12:33.000 I don't know who said it, but it was like, you know, you die twice, you know what I mean?

02:12:37.000 The first time you die is when you take your last breath, and the second time you die is when they say your name for the last time.

02:12:43.000 And that always spoke volumes to me because I was like, man, I want my name to be remembered some way, you know?

02:12:48.000 And that was my real pursuit, for real, for real, doing MMA and chasing my dream.

02:12:54.000 Leave your mark.

02:12:55.000 Leave my mark some way.

02:12:57.000 Well, you definitely have that opportunity.

02:12:59.000 I mean, you've already left your mark, but you have an opportunity.

02:13:02.000 You're only 28, right?

02:13:03.000 Yeah, only 28. You have a giant future ahead of you.

02:13:06.000 Especially knowing your background now, knowing how little real formal training you've had, and the fact that you've reached this level of proficiency and skill and accomplishment.

02:13:17.000 Yeah, it's game time now.

02:13:18.000 It's pretty crazy.

02:13:19.000 You're in a really great spot right now, especially now dropping down to 170 pounds, which is your natural weight class, where you're not going to be at a disadvantage physically, like in the Nordean fight.

02:13:30.000 I think everything plays a part, and everything happens for a reason, so I'm glad I fought at 185. I'm glad I was able to develop my name in the middleweight division and stuff like that.

02:13:42.000 Because it's not gonna make it harder to go down to 170 and fight a couple of other, you know, ranked good names instead of starting all the way back over.

02:13:49.000 Well, you know, you fight guys like Imamov, who's like, what is his natural weight?

02:13:52.000 I mean, what is he walking around?

02:13:53.000 I don't know.

02:13:53.000 He's probably 215. Yeah.

02:13:55.000 Much, much bigger.

02:13:57.000 Yeah.

02:13:57.000 And Nasuddin is, I mean, he's like, he's an elite level fighter at that weight, too.

02:14:01.000 Yeah.

02:14:01.000 So you have...

02:14:02.000 I mean, to be honest with you, when I look at my resume at 185, I ain't fighting no bums. 0.53

02:14:06.000 No?

02:14:08.000 I fought a lot of high-level guys at middleweight, and I did a successful job.

02:14:12.000 I took a couple L's here and there, but I was able to accomplish, get five wins, up to four knockouts within the middleweight division.

02:14:21.000 I think that should speak volumes for me to go to a weight class that's more fitted for me.

02:14:26.000 Much better.

02:14:27.000 Much better for you.

02:14:28.000 And also with this structured training and the fact that you really do have relatively little in comparison to the amount of time you've been fighting.

02:14:37.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:14:37.000 I mean, well, I've been fighting for a long time, you know, for 10 years, but I just didn't know nothing.

02:14:42.000 Right, but that's what's so crazy.

02:14:44.000 It's like you accomplished a lot with that.

02:14:48.000 And now having very structured training and being in your physical prime and going down to a natural weight class, I mean, once you get past Chris Curtis, if you get past Chris Curtis...

02:14:59.000 No, no, but it's just that when I'm Italian, this is all the preparation that I've been putting in and doing and just taking the time and opportunity to actually promote the fight for myself.

02:15:12.000 You know what I mean?

02:15:12.000 Coming out here with you and speaking to you to sell this fight.

02:15:15.000 Even that, I just developed too much time and effort into this fight to lose.

02:15:21.000 I can't, you know, because everything that I want on the other side is riding up to this fight.

02:15:27.000 It ain't even like the National Dean fight.

02:15:28.000 Like, this is the fight right here.

02:15:29.000 You know what I mean?

02:15:30.000 So the last fight that I got, not on my contract, but of the year, because this will be my fourth fight that I had, you know what I'm saying, within one year, you know, and that's a big deal to me.

02:15:39.000 And I feel like I really need to show out for this one, you know, because I've never been a fighter either to lose back-to-back.

02:15:44.000 Because if I'm not learning in the gym, I'm learning from those fights.

02:15:49.000 Trust me.

02:15:50.000 I think you did learn from that fight.

02:15:51.000 And what you're talking about with that third round that you should have fought that way in the first round, isn't that a big part of the whole experience of having high-level competition?

02:15:59.000 Yes, sir.

02:15:59.000 Is these little lessons that you learn in each individual encounter.

02:16:03.000 And they're majoring.

02:16:04.000 Even though they're small, they make for major adjustments or major improvements.

02:16:08.000 That's what I mean to say.

02:16:09.000 So, having that fight with Nasher Dean is showing that I need to put the gas on a lot of these dudes early, period, you know?

02:16:16.000 And make them work, you know?

02:16:17.000 So, I didn't make Nasher Dean work as hard as I should have in that first and that second round, you know?

02:16:21.000 Now, what kind of strength and conditioning routine do they have you on?

02:16:25.000 Because you have such a wild style of fighting.

02:16:29.000 I mean, you have to have a deep, deep gas tank to fight the way you fight.

02:16:32.000 Man, I got a psychopath, man, as a conditioning coach, man.

02:16:36.000 Perfect. 0.68

02:16:36.000 Yeah, big facts. 0.68

02:16:37.000 Shout out to Justin Hardick, man.

02:16:39.000 So he been sending me actually workouts, right?

02:16:41.000 So this is what I just did here.

02:16:43.000 I can actually show you because he hasn't been out here with me to help me train.

02:16:48.000 So like this is one of the workouts that he had me do right here.

02:16:52.000 Matter of fact, I'll let you look at it.

02:16:53.000 So look, this is also cool, right?

02:16:55.000 So he sends this out.

02:16:56.000 Oh, he breaks it all out.

02:16:57.000 A little history lesson, right?

02:16:59.000 Talking about Akinawa and that war, you know what I'm saying?

02:17:02.000 Think D-Day, you know?

02:17:03.000 And just talking about, like, you know, what the soldiers had went through and how they had to, you know, keep fighting and keep going up that hill doing so many obstacles and dodging bullets and all this other stuff. 0.99

02:17:15.000 That's all about kamikaze shit. 1.00

02:17:17.000 Right, tell me about it, right? 1.00

02:17:18.000 And then he gets to the workout.

02:17:20.000 Wow, all this history lesson and then the workout.

02:17:24.000 Yes, sir, and it gets me pumped, you know what I'm saying?

02:17:25.000 Like, because it's just a reminder, like, bro, like, like, it's a mentality thing, you know, what you go through and then how you take the fight or how you take your training.

02:17:35.000 Seriously, you know, you got to make that switch.

02:17:38.000 Right.

02:17:38.000 You can't just go through a workout and be like, all right, man, I'm going to just get this done, like, you know, like, live or die, like, I'm training for, like, war.

02:17:44.000 Yeah.

02:17:44.000 Point blank period, you know, and that's what I love about them.

02:17:47.000 So we do a lot of, you know, Cool, unique things, man, with him, but he makes sure to push me to my limits, you know.

02:17:53.000 Now, how do you balance out strength and conditioning workout with skill workout?

02:17:58.000 Like, what is your, like, a week's work with you structured?

02:18:01.000 So, Monday through Friday, man, so I'm in the gym, point blank period, and I even work out Saturday and Sunday, but I be doing my own thing, you know.

02:18:10.000 But Monday, we do HPI work, so that's strength and conditioning.

02:18:14.000 On that same Monday, we do striking MMA work with my head coach, whatever.

02:18:19.000 So just two days, you know?

02:18:20.000 Tuesdays, same thing, working with conditioning coach.

02:18:23.000 Then I'm working grappling.

02:18:25.000 Tuesdays is grappling day, so wrestling, MMA. And then Wednesday, same thing, conditioning.

02:18:30.000 So we might work, let's say, like functional work, you know what I mean?

02:18:35.000 Just working the weights, like kettlebells, or like what's the one they have?

02:18:41.000 Mace, steel mace. 0.96

02:18:44.000 Work with that.

02:18:45.000 And Wednesday, we got sparring.

02:18:48.000 And then Thursday, we had the same thing, just outside conditioning.

02:18:52.000 Now we running.

02:18:52.000 We outside with it.

02:18:54.000 And after that, with Thursday, we got jiu-jitsu training.

02:18:58.000 And then Friday, we have just open mat.

02:19:01.000 You know what I mean?

02:19:01.000 That we work with coach.

02:19:03.000 But then also Friday, we hit a heavy lift.

02:19:06.000 Yeah.

02:19:07.000 And so, do you have days where you, like, are you specifically doing jujitsu some days or wrestling some days?

02:19:15.000 Yeah, so Tuesdays and Thursdays grappling.

02:19:17.000 Tuesdays is wrestling, primarily, and then Thursday is jujitsu.

02:19:21.000 Is it hard to get everything in?

02:19:22.000 Because that's one of the things about MMA is there's so many skill sets you have to work on.

02:19:26.000 Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

02:19:27.000 I mean, but...

02:19:28.000 The core things, you already know what the core things is for real.

02:19:31.000 It's jujitsu, boxing, kickboxing slash Muay Thai, judo, and what else can we put on that?

02:19:39.000 I guess that's it for real.

02:19:40.000 Four things, you know.

02:19:42.000 Those are core things.

02:19:43.000 So we get to work all those fundamental things, you know.

02:19:45.000 But it's actually like trying to actually form our own type of martial arts.

02:19:49.000 And then coach is just always trying to have us work on our, you know, abilities, right?

02:19:54.000 And try to form us into the best fighter that we are, you know?

02:19:57.000 And he just tries to work those attributes that we have, you know?

02:19:59.000 And when you do by yourself on the weekends, what do you do?

02:20:03.000 Just concentrate on what you think you need to work on?

02:20:05.000 Like, how do you do that?

02:20:06.000 So with Saturday and Sunday, I usually work with Andy Simmons with wrestling on Sundays.

02:20:12.000 And Saturday, I pretty much just do my own thing.

02:20:15.000 So like a little workout, watch some little videos.

02:20:17.000 I still do the same thing that I've been doing for the longest time.

02:20:20.000 Always trying to find different videos, but do a little fun little workout.

02:20:23.000 But it's nothing too stressful.

02:20:24.000 It's just having fun and just keeping my tools tight.

02:20:27.000 You know, so that might just be hitting the bag and just working on like certain little basic techniques.

02:20:31.000 But Sundays, though, I work out with Andy Simmons almost every Sunday.

02:20:34.000 And Andy Simmons is a dog.

02:20:36.000 You can bring him up if you want to, but like I said, from Michigan State, undefeated.

02:20:41.000 Was undefeated in his high school and then went into being a collegiate wrestler at D1 Michigan State and going crazy there too.

02:20:49.000 So do you have anybody that works with you on your nutrition?

02:20:54.000 I mean, we don't work on it necessarily, but like we eat clean though, you know, so Justin cooks up all our meals.

02:21:00.000 So that's my coach again, conditioning coach.

02:21:03.000 Oh, that's great.

02:21:03.000 Yep, yep, yep.

02:21:04.000 So he cooks up the bison.

02:21:07.000 Everything is like, I feel like It's like dog food, man.

02:21:10.000 We eat the same stuff every day, man.

02:21:12.000 But we eat bison meat and chicken and just white rice and broccoli.

02:21:18.000 Real plain, real simple, real boring.

02:21:20.000 You know, nothing too crazy.

02:21:21.000 But I told you, like, with meat, it is perfect, though.

02:21:24.000 It's perfect.

02:21:24.000 But at the same time, I don't have to really focus on, like, literally what I'm putting in my body until going to 170. Right.

02:21:30.000 You know, so I still play around.

02:21:31.000 I still eat whatever I want to, you know, being at 185. So was he doing, like, meal prep, or he It gives you pre-portioned meals and then you just save them for the week?

02:21:40.000 Yeah.

02:21:40.000 We eat that same thing.

02:21:42.000 But it's the perfect nutrition, what you're saying.

02:21:45.000 Yes, sir.

02:21:45.000 That's the right.

02:21:46.000 Yes, sir.

02:21:46.000 What about recovery stuff?

02:21:47.000 Do you do sauna, cold plunge?

02:21:49.000 We do all that.

02:21:50.000 All of it.

02:21:50.000 All of it, man.

02:21:51.000 It's nothing too crazy.

02:21:53.000 It's all the things that...

02:21:55.000 Fighters been doing it for the longest, so boxers been doing it for the longest.

02:21:57.000 So we do ice plunge, we hit the sauna.

02:22:00.000 I like cryo a lot more for myself.

02:22:03.000 I hate being cold and wet, you know?

02:22:05.000 But the thing about just the regular ice plunge that you have to do, I feel like it's more mental because you can stay in there a little bit longer, you know what I mean?

02:22:16.000 I feel like just for the attitude and getting to the ice plunge and stuff like that, that's what I think it's great for.

02:22:21.000 But I feel like cryo, I like cryo a little bit more.

02:22:24.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:22:24.000 For inflammation in my arms or if my body aches, if I have anything going on, I feel like cryo will get me right real quick because I only get to be in there for like three minutes.

02:22:32.000 You know?

02:22:33.000 Yes, sir.

02:22:33.000 When you do the ice plunge, how long are you staying there for?

02:22:36.000 We try to do 10, 15 minutes, you know, and then two sessions.

02:22:40.000 So you're doing buckets of water with buckets of ice and not doing like a real cold plunge where it keeps it to 34 degrees.

02:22:47.000 I mean, well, I mean, well, we keep it there, you know, so we check the temperature and that thing begin to 32. And we in Michigan, too.

02:22:55.000 So that helps.

02:22:57.000 The winters in Michigan, you just get a lake.

02:22:59.000 Yeah.

02:23:00.000 I mean, big facts, you know.

02:23:02.000 And you try to do that at the evening?

02:23:05.000 When do you do that, the recovery stuff?

02:23:08.000 We try to hit it.

02:23:10.000 Usually we've been doing it Monday, Wednesdays, Fridays.

02:23:14.000 Right after a workout with him, and then we go straight into it.

02:23:19.000 But don't do the bucket of ice and stuff like that.

02:23:22.000 Don't do it every day.

02:23:24.000 We don't do it every day.

02:23:25.000 Do you get massages or anything like that?

02:23:28.000 No, I don't really get no massages, man.

02:23:30.000 If I do get a massage, man, it'll probably be at the mall or something.

02:23:35.000 But I like the compressions.

02:23:37.000 Oh, yeah.

02:23:38.000 Normatex.

02:23:39.000 Normatex is cool, you know, so that works, you know.

02:23:41.000 But, yeah, I don't really get, like, massages.

02:23:43.000 Nothing too crazy.

02:23:44.000 Like, you know, everything real basic, man.

02:23:46.000 Like, my thing is, like, it's just every day now.

02:23:49.000 I get to train every day.

02:23:51.000 So it might not be, like, the craziest things that I'm doing, but I'm doing the same thing consistently.

02:23:56.000 Right.

02:23:56.000 Having no job has to be a big factor.

02:23:58.000 Right.

02:23:58.000 Oh yeah.

02:23:59.000 Going from, you know, having a job and training when you can to having training being your whole job.

02:24:06.000 Big fact.

02:24:06.000 Like I said, I'm not doing nothing crazy or special.

02:24:09.000 Just able to do it every day.

02:24:10.000 There's so many fighters that fight at a world-class level that still have a job.

02:24:14.000 It's crazy.

02:24:15.000 That's just a sport that we're in.

02:24:17.000 It is unfortunate, but I've been blessed and I've been fortunate enough to be able to fight the way I'm fighting and I've been rewarded for it.

02:24:29.000 I feel like a lot of fighters, if they put more on the line and they go out and actually try to take a little bit more risk, They could potentially, you know, be on the other side, but at the same time, it's all about winning, you know what I mean?

02:24:40.000 But unfortunately, you see some guys that win some fights, whatever, but they're not exciting, they're not fun, and you don't see where their career takes them, and they don't make a lot of money, which you see, like you said, they got another job, they still training, they still, you know, trying to find sponsors, whatever, just to pay some certain bills and stuff like that,

02:24:57.000 you know, so it's that risk and reward factor, you know?

02:25:00.000 So if you're willing just to win but not be exciting, you know what I mean?

02:25:02.000 Just realize you're not going to get the money that you're really looking for.

02:25:06.000 I guess that's the harder route, I feel like, unfortunately.

02:25:09.000 It's interesting, those calculations.

02:25:12.000 Are you just trying to win or are you trying to win and be someone who's very entertaining?

02:25:16.000 Yeah, big facts.

02:25:17.000 And I feel like a lot of guys don't train that way.

02:25:20.000 And I've been training like that for a long time.

02:25:22.000 And I wouldn't even say I'm a hard guy to spar or nothing like that, but I'm trying to touch you, though.

02:25:27.000 You know, I mean, we see it in kickboxing, we see it in boxing, how those guys spar, now those guys spar, for real.

02:25:33.000 They be trying to knock dudes out, you know?

02:25:35.000 And I feel like some guys in the MMA culture, whatever, they just want to touch, like, man, I don't really want to hurt, you know, so we just going to touch like this and just tag each other.

02:25:44.000 But I feel like that plays a part in your fights too, you know?

02:25:47.000 And a lot of guys get touched up even more because of that in a fight instead of actually taking it serious and sparring.

02:25:53.000 Because they're not used to sparring hard.

02:25:56.000 Exactly, right?

02:25:57.000 So now they're getting touched up for real in an actual fight.

02:26:00.000 How do you balance that out, though?

02:26:02.000 Because if you spar too much, you leave too much in the gym.

02:26:05.000 Well, how many times did I tell you I spar in a week?

02:26:08.000 One time.

02:26:08.000 One time?

02:26:09.000 One time.

02:26:10.000 That's it?

02:26:10.000 That's it.

02:26:11.000 What I need to spar more for.

02:26:12.000 Interesting.

02:26:13.000 Yeah, big fact.

02:26:14.000 But it's a hard day.

02:26:15.000 Yeah, it's a good day.

02:26:17.000 Yeah.

02:26:17.000 Yeah, man.

02:26:18.000 What day is that?

02:26:19.000 Do you spar?

02:26:19.000 Wednesday.

02:26:20.000 Yeah.

02:26:20.000 And so Thursday and Friday, thinking about...

02:26:23.000 The work and drilling.

02:26:24.000 Yeah, work and drilling.

02:26:24.000 Yes, sir.

02:26:25.000 Yeah.

02:26:25.000 Yep.

02:26:26.000 Well, it sounds like you got a great plan, man.

02:26:28.000 And I'm very, very much looking forward to this fight in December.

02:26:32.000 It's a big fight for you.

02:26:33.000 And I love the fact that you're dropping down to 170. No, big facts, man.

02:26:36.000 And before that, though, too, like, before we even end off on that, you know, because I said I wanted to fight at 170, you asked me, like, who's some names?

02:26:43.000 Yeah.

02:26:43.000 So if it's not Shao Kahn and it's not Jeff Neal, you know, I'd love to fight Sean Brady, you know what I'm saying, or Vicente Luque.

02:26:50.000 You know, those are two great names, two good matchups for me, you know, and they both coming off an L, you know.

02:26:55.000 Those are great fights.

02:26:56.000 I'd like to see all of them.

02:26:57.000 Big fights.

02:26:57.000 But listen, man, I'm a big fan.

02:26:59.000 I'm real excited about your future.

02:27:01.000 Thank you, man.

02:27:02.000 Hearing your story has been fantastic.

02:27:04.000 I appreciate you for having me.

02:27:04.000 I appreciate you very much, man.

02:27:06.000 And again, I'm really looking forward to December and your whole career.

02:27:09.000 I'm a fan.

02:27:10.000 I appreciate it, G. Thank you very much.

02:27:12.000 Tell everybody your social media so they can find you.

02:27:15.000 Yeah, you already know, man.

02:27:16.000 So my social media is NewMansa94.

02:27:18.000 That's my Instagram.

02:27:20.000 I got a YouTube channel now.

02:27:22.000 That's Joaquin Buckley Official on YouTube.

02:27:25.000 And then as well, I got my own little business, Solid Foundation.

02:27:29.000 So make sure y'all go follow that page as well on Instagram.

02:27:32.000 What is that business?

02:27:33.000 Solid Foundation.

02:27:34.000 It's just apparel.

02:27:34.000 Just merch.

02:27:35.000 Oh, okay.

02:27:36.000 Yeah, you're on clothing line.

02:27:37.000 Yeah, yes, sir.

02:27:38.000 That's good.

02:27:39.000 Spread it out.

02:27:40.000 Thank you very much.

02:27:42.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 11, 2022

JRE MMA Show #132 with Joaquin Buckley

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