The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1905 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

00:00:12.000 Hey Derek, you know how I got so jacked?

00:00:15.000 I followed the nine ancestral tenants.

00:00:17.000 Oh, I heard that works really well.

00:00:20.000 It's the best way.

00:00:21.000 Yeah.

00:00:22.000 Boy, when I saw that video that you posted, you actually sent me the video after I'd already seen it.

00:00:27.000 I caught it like within three minutes of you posting it.

00:00:30.000 Oh my god.

00:00:31.000 I saw it, it just showed up on YouTube feed.

00:00:33.000 I'm like, oh yes, here we go.

00:00:36.000 And I wasn't surprised at all.

00:00:38.000 No.

00:00:39.000 I mean, it seems completely makes sense, but that's exactly what I expected.

00:00:43.000 Yeah, it seemed like just a matter of time for him.

00:00:45.000 There's no way you can look like that in your 40s. 0.97

00:00:50.000 He's preposterously jacked. 1.00

00:00:52.000 Do we have a fucking... 1.00

00:00:53.000 Now that we know that he's full of shit, we're talking about the Liver King, by the way, ladies and gentlemen. 1.00

00:00:59.000 A lot of people are like, what are they saying? 1.00

00:01:00.000 This is all inside stuff.

00:01:01.000 There's a guy, if you don't know who the Liver King is, there's a guy who calls himself the Liver King, and he's this guy who walks around everywhere with no shirt on.

00:01:10.000 I've seen him in Vegas with no shirt on.

00:01:11.000 Big bushy beard, super jacked. 0.99

00:01:13.000 And he was telling people that the way he gets that way is by sunning his balls. 1.00

00:01:18.000 He literally lays down with his asshole staring at the sun and eats raw liver and just lifts like a maniac. 1.00

00:01:28.000 And that's how he's so jacked. 1.00

00:01:30.000 But it's preposterous.

00:01:31.000 Yeah, too many polar extremes to have just like a unique marketing spin that was just highly viral, in my opinion.

00:01:38.000 And I don't know.

00:01:40.000 Most people could see through it, but at the same time, he would...

00:01:43.000 Like, there was a lot of big names that even reached out to me after the video came out, and they were like...

00:01:48.000 You know, I didn't think he was natural, but this guy, literally, right to my face, would say, like, blatantly, I am natural.

00:01:56.000 And, like, a lot of people will take a guy at his word when it's, like, a private conversation.

00:02:01.000 And if he's straight up telling you in person, yeah, it's actually legit, I'm natural. 0.99

00:02:06.000 And he was just lying through his fucking teeth, seemingly. 0.99

00:02:09.000 There's some people that are really jacked that are natural. 1.00

00:02:11.000 For sure.

00:02:12.000 Some people that are like super, super disciplined.

00:02:15.000 They, you know, they're taking supplements, but all legal supplements that you get at like a vitamin store.

00:02:23.000 And they're just like, they've never gotten off the grind.

00:02:27.000 And who's that guy?

00:02:28.000 Paul Sklar?

00:02:30.000 Did you comment on him?

00:02:31.000 Yeah, he actually did blood work immediately after I had talked about him one time and it checked out.

00:02:39.000 Yeah, he looks like what's possible.

00:02:42.000 If you don't know who that guy is, he's super jacked and he's 50 years old.

00:02:46.000 But when I'm looking at him, I'm not getting any steroidy vibes.

00:02:52.000 I'm getting a really fit guy who works out really hard and has probably been doing it for 30 years.

00:02:58.000 That's what I get when I look at that guy.

00:03:00.000 That's all feasible and possible.

00:03:03.000 Now please go to the liver king.

00:03:07.000 Please show me some preposterous liver king physiology.

00:03:13.000 Oh, have you seen his apology?

00:03:15.000 No, I haven't.

00:03:16.000 I don't want to watch it.

00:03:17.000 He comes clean on steroids. 1.00

00:03:19.000 I fucked up. 0.97

00:03:22.000 I don't know if you guys are able to watch the... 0.99

00:03:24.000 I just want to see his images, though.

00:03:25.000 I want to see some images of his body, because his body is just so off the charts, ridiculously massive.

00:03:33.000 That's okay, but...

00:03:34.000 That's like unflattering lighting.

00:03:37.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:03:37.000 I want to show some of him jacked and lifting, because he's just fucking gigantic. 0.98

00:03:48.000 So he did cover the ab implants and etching again. 0.96

00:03:51.000 He said no to both, even in his apology.

00:03:54.000 Touches on it.

00:03:55.000 I mean, I guess it's possible if you're on that much juice that your ab muscles grow that big too.

00:04:01.000 Because the kind of stuff he does is, you know, very core specific.

00:04:08.000 Like he's doing a lot of stuff where he's like cleaning and pressing kettlebells and walking with them over his head and all that stuff really does ignite your core.

00:04:18.000 And if he's doing that all the time, I would imagine it's possible that those are real abs.

00:04:24.000 But that was the question.

00:04:25.000 Do you think those are real abs?

00:04:27.000 Yeah, personally, I think they're legitimate abs.

00:04:31.000 And the etching thing, I think, is more of the controversial topic.

00:04:35.000 Did he have some sort of, like, cosmetic work done to target locally the fat around the abdominal muscles?

00:04:44.000 You know, definition.

00:04:45.000 Would that make much of a difference though?

00:04:47.000 Because he's very lean, clearly.

00:04:48.000 If you look at his arms, you look at his chest, you look at everything, like look at that image right there.

00:04:52.000 He's so lean.

00:04:53.000 I mean, how much fat would you even be talking about?

00:04:56.000 And how would that make...

00:04:58.000 The thing is the topographical map of his abs.

00:05:02.000 The way they pop up like mountains.

00:05:05.000 That's just mass.

00:05:06.000 Yeah.

00:05:06.000 That's where the question of whether or not that's real or whether or not they're implants.

00:05:10.000 That's what I was leaning to is just, like, I feel like his overall body composition is pretty consistently represented.

00:05:16.000 I don't think he has, like, I get that his...

00:05:19.000 Yeah, like, look at him walking there.

00:05:22.000 The argument is they don't change in, like, when he sits down or anything, the density of them and, like, the separation is so dramatic that it's got to be something.

00:05:32.000 Yeah.

00:05:33.000 And...

00:05:33.000 You know, you could never really say if it was well done, like, what did or didn't happen.

00:05:39.000 I don't think it's implants, though.

00:05:40.000 That would be really obvious, in my opinion.

00:05:43.000 Well, granted, then it's like, well, if it's unnoticeable, would you even, you know?

00:05:47.000 Right.

00:05:47.000 It's like plastic surgery.

00:05:49.000 You only see the stuff that's not good.

00:05:51.000 Are you guys able to play the apology without it being copyrighted?

00:05:55.000 We can play it first.

00:05:57.000 Come after us.

00:05:59.000 I don't know what the Spotify copyright rules are like.

00:06:02.000 Oh, listen.

00:06:02.000 I think Spotify can handle this.

00:06:04.000 Let's play the YouTube version.

00:06:05.000 Let's play it.

00:06:06.000 Put a little bit up on Instagram.

00:06:07.000 Yeah, if you put it on YouTube, you're more than allowed to...

00:06:10.000 Here it goes.

00:06:12.000 Liver King confession.

00:06:18.000 That sounds like a terrible sound.

00:06:20.000 Is it a connection issue?

00:06:25.000 That's happened before.

00:06:26.000 What is that?

00:06:27.000 I don't know.

00:06:31.000 A lot of people believed him, including the Bell brothers, Chris and Mark Bell.

00:06:35.000 I'm like, how, guys?

00:06:37.000 You do steroids.

00:06:39.000 How do you not look at that guy and go, clearly?

00:06:43.000 I think Mark likes to think that a lot of people, like, again, he doesn't want to put a...

00:06:50.000 Is it working?

00:06:53.000 Like a limitation on what's possible.

00:06:56.000 Like he likes to believe that you could...

00:06:58.000 And again, because the problem with this too is a lot of people will extrapolate this out and then think everyone with a jacked physique must be doing something, which is problematic because then it sort of creates this narrative around, you know, everyone's lying or anyone with a good physique. 0.97

00:07:13.000 It's impossible to get there without doping your fucking face off kind of thing, which is not the case. 0.80

00:07:19.000 There are certain individuals who... 0.99

00:07:20.000 Like I do believe that physique...

00:07:23.000 Okay, maybe not that physique, but within striking distance of that, in 0.00001% of individuals, you could get there naturally.

00:07:34.000 Yeah.

00:07:34.000 Potentially.

00:07:35.000 Hyper responders.

00:07:36.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:07:37.000 Guys who are just ridiculous genetics. 0.89

00:07:39.000 Like Ronnie Coleman Natural. 0.98

00:07:40.000 Yes.

00:07:41.000 Perfect example.

00:07:42.000 Yeah.

00:07:43.000 Ronnie Coleman Natural was super jacked.

00:07:45.000 But he couldn't compete with the most jacked guys, and then he started doing steroids.

00:07:49.000 Yeah, and then he just exploded.

00:07:50.000 But he's super honest about it.

00:07:52.000 Like, when Ronnie talks about it, he just will explain.

00:07:54.000 Like, up until he was 30 years old, he was natural.

00:07:57.000 Yeah.

00:07:58.000 So can we get it?

00:07:59.000 Okay.

00:08:01.000 I've got a little...

00:08:07.000 Yeah.

00:08:07.000 Maybe there's another version of it?

00:08:09.000 I think there's something on my cable for some reason.

00:08:11.000 I'm looking at the audio on my feed and it's not...

00:08:13.000 Is it the cable or is it how it connects?

00:08:16.000 Is it like...

00:08:16.000 It's one of the other.

00:08:17.000 It could be both.

00:08:18.000 That's an old-ass laptop, isn't it?

00:08:20.000 No, it's a new one. 0.86

00:08:21.000 Oh, okay.

00:08:22.000 Old cable, maybe.

00:08:24.000 Because I lied.

00:08:25.000 And I misled.

00:08:26.000 Yeah, it's quiet.

00:08:28.000 I don't know if something's wrong.

00:08:28.000 That's all right.

00:08:29.000 Let's play it.

00:08:29.000 We can hear what he's saying.

00:08:31.000 A lot of people.

00:08:35.000 I'm making this video to apologize. 0.79

00:08:40.000 Because I fucked up. 0.85

00:08:42.000 Because I'm embarrassed and ashamed. 0.99

00:08:45.000 Because I lied and I misled a lot of people. 0.78

00:08:50.000 I've stated that this is a complicated as fuck topic, at least to me it is, because before social media I was rich and anonymous and after social media I'm still rich but no longer anonymous and I never expected this kind of exposure in the public eye. 0.98

00:09:07.000 It's been tricky as fuck to navigate. 0.96

00:09:11.000 Well, Clearly, I did it wrong. 0.94

00:09:15.000 And I'm here now to set the record straight.

00:09:20.000 Yes, I've done steroids.

00:09:23.000 And yes, I'm on steroids, and I'm already managed by a trained hormone clinician.

00:09:30.000 Liver King, the public figure, was an experiment to spread the message, to bring awareness to the 4,000 people a day who kill themselves.

00:09:38.000 The 80,000 people a day that try to kill themselves are people who are hurting at record rates with depression, autoimmune, anxiety, infertility, low ambition in life.

00:09:56.000 He did it for the hurting people!

00:09:59.000 Come on, Derek!

00:10:00.000 The comments are not too favorable on that part of the video.

00:10:10.000 Pause.

00:10:14.000 Your highest and most dominant form.

00:10:16.000 What?

00:10:17.000 He wanted everybody that's depressed and trying to kill themselves to reach their highest, most dominant form.

00:10:23.000 But he wanted to lie about how he achieved his physique.

00:10:27.000 So mislead these people that just by eating liver, you can come close to that.

00:10:31.000 So as you fail at that as well, as everything else you failed at life that led you to the point of doing...

00:10:37.000 Something to yourself that you're thinking about committing suicide.

00:10:40.000 That's what he's saying. 0.99

00:10:41.000 I feel like in this video he had a very good opportunity to just straight up say, sorry, I fucked up, etc. 0.72

00:10:47.000 Which I think he thought he was doing, but he also makes a few little comments in there that I feel like people really dug in on. 0.91

00:10:55.000 Like the whole, I didn't expect it to happen this, or me to blow up this much.

00:11:00.000 It was very meticulously planned out from inception of the brand.

00:11:04.000 I don't know if you saw the emails, but it's like...

00:11:07.000 Within one year, I want to be at exactly this in social media following, and this is what I'm gonna do.

00:11:13.000 What's his social media following at now, Jamie?

00:11:16.000 Which is like Instagram.

00:11:20.000 I bet he's at 5 million.

00:11:21.000 I think on TikTok...

00:11:22.000 1.7 million.

00:11:23.000 On TikTok, he's at like 3 point something million.

00:11:27.000 Half of it's Chinese bots.

00:11:29.000 Maybe. 0.95

00:11:30.000 Alright, let's play some more of this nonsense.

00:11:32.000 While spreading the message, I've been on several podcasts, and when asked if I've ever taken steroids, I've always said, no, I don't touch the stuff, not gonna touch the stuff, never touch the stuff.

00:11:45.000 That was a lie.

00:11:47.000 I think...

00:11:49.000 I convinced myself that this had nothing to do with the ancestral message. 0.98

00:11:54.000 I convinced myself that I'm not a competitive athlete of any kind, so who the fuck am I cheating? 0.63

00:12:00.000 I convinced myself that this topic was a placeholder for a far more important conversation. 0.98

00:12:08.000 I convinced myself that this would overshadow the 36 years of working out, usually twice a day, without PEDs.

00:12:17.000 That's not true.

00:12:18.000 I've convinced myself that this was the bulk of the minority, usually in the fitness category, driving to an unproductive conversation.

00:12:28.000 And I had convinced myself that this would be the wrong message to send to the 15 year old boys.

00:12:35.000 Oh, the 15-year-old boys.

00:12:37.000 The ones who actually can get jacked.

00:12:40.000 We've seen enough.

00:12:42.000 You know what the problem is?

00:12:44.000 Sometimes people don't hang out with people that are smarter than them.

00:12:48.000 And you think you're the smartest person, or maybe because he's running this company, people have to listen to him.

00:12:55.000 So he's got this distorted perception of his ability to communicate and his ability to...

00:13:01.000 Like, convince people.

00:13:03.000 Like, that was so theatrical and so corny.

00:13:05.000 I don't know how, like, what kind of thought process went into it.

00:13:09.000 There was some sort of ROI calculation on if I lie, like, what is the probability I get outed versus how viral can I go if I lie from the get-go versus, like, I just don't know how his team, especially with the information out there,

00:13:24.000 thought that it was going to be a net win where it's probably never going to come out.

00:13:29.000 Does he have a team?

00:13:31.000 Yeah, it's pretty elaborate.

00:13:33.000 Well, he has a media team that he hired to kind of like...

00:13:36.000 Right, but they're just employees. 0.99

00:13:38.000 One of them came up to me in Vegas.

00:13:39.000 Oh, really?

00:13:40.000 Yeah, one of my security guards stopped him.

00:13:42.000 He was like, I'm a producer for the Liver King. 0.99

00:13:44.000 I'm like, what the fuck do you produce? 0.99

00:13:46.000 What are you producing? 1.00

00:13:48.000 Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

00:13:50.000 It's not a movie.

00:13:50.000 How many UFC events did he try and cozy up?

00:13:53.000 He was front row at one of my shows in Vegas. 0.99

00:13:56.000 Oh, damn. 0.99

00:13:57.000 At the MGM. Yeah, and then I saw him again at the Canelo Fight. 0.99

00:14:00.000 He was trying really hard to get on the podcast.

00:14:02.000 And he's been trying really hard to get on now.

00:14:04.000 He contacted a few friends of mine.

00:14:07.000 And some of them that have, like Burt Kreischer, that had him on the show.

00:14:10.000 Yeah, he told me he's trying to get on him.

00:14:12.000 Yeah, for what?

00:14:13.000 For what?

00:14:14.000 Say that more? 1.00

00:14:15.000 Like, come on, this is dumb, man. 1.00

00:14:16.000 This is a fucking, you ran a con game, and you got busted. 1.00

00:14:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:14:20.000 And it's unfortunate that you feel terrible. 1.00

00:14:23.000 I'm sorry you feel bad, because that's just what happens when you get caught lying.

00:14:27.000 But you didn't have to lie.

00:14:28.000 Like, I don't even see how bad it would have been if, from the get-go, he was like, I, you know, it's not the healthiest. 0.65

00:14:35.000 Yeah, but, like, I understand the not wanting to talk about the other shit, because he was on Winstrel, Deca, high amounts of GH, etc., which is not ancestrally consistent, but neither is HRT, because it's like, well, if your diet was so dialed... 0.77

00:14:50.000 Like, why is it that you don't have, like, adequate testicular function or adequate hormone output or this or that? 0.67

00:14:56.000 And it's just like, I guess I kind of just, like, spit in the face of his message too much that he couldn't wrap his head around justifying coming out and saying, I'm on HRT, but do this other stuff.

00:15:05.000 Well, he kind of had, I mean, one of the parts of your video that was really good was that you inserted this guy who gives a definition of charlatans.

00:15:13.000 Who's that guy?

00:15:14.000 Zach Tellender.

00:15:15.000 Zach Tellender.

00:15:15.000 Yeah.

00:15:16.000 So that guy's definition of charlatans...

00:15:20.000 It's really excellent.

00:15:21.000 Because, you know, when you're talking about fitness and physiques and you're talking about bodybuilding and just getting jacked, there are so many, like, really educated, really jacked-looking people that are online that tell you how they do it.

00:15:39.000 Yeah.

00:15:40.000 And they give you, like, what supplements they're taking, what kind of sets they're doing, what's their recovery like, what's...

00:15:47.000 All those things, and...

00:15:50.000 Everyone's giving a very similar message.

00:15:52.000 Some people have different approaches.

00:15:54.000 Some people, you know, they're doing, you know, different kinds of exercises, but it's pretty consistent.

00:16:00.000 And one of the things that Zach talked about in that video that you inserted into your video, which is really good, was that when someone comes along and they have a secret...

00:16:09.000 Yeah.

00:16:10.000 This is the secret.

00:16:11.000 The secret is the nine ancestral tenants. 0.99

00:16:14.000 You see him there with a beard, he looks like a fucking, like an ogre, like someone in Lord of the Rings. 0.99

00:16:20.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:16:20.000 Like he looks like he belonged to the nine ancestral tenants. 0.99

00:16:23.000 Like you're gonna meet him in a cave somewhere and he's gonna explain to you and give you a magic staff.

00:16:27.000 Yeah, it's like he needs – I felt – he feels it justified to be a larger-than-life character to represent the polar extreme of ancestral living and even if it's at the detriment of having to take a bunch of drugs to do it.

00:16:39.000 Because men are killing themselves, Derek.

00:16:41.000 There's a whole reason for it.

00:16:42.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:16:43.000 It's so dumb because imagine if you're like a really skinny guy. 0.98

00:16:46.000 And you're like, all I have to do is eat liver? 0.99

00:16:48.000 And I can look like that guy?

00:16:49.000 Imagine.

00:16:50.000 Like, there's people out there that really believe that.

00:16:52.000 Like, that's what's missing.

00:16:53.000 You know, wolves eat liver?

00:16:55.000 Why don't I eat liver?

00:16:56.000 So they go, which is, by the way, very, very healthy for you.

00:16:58.000 Yeah.

00:16:59.000 Liver is a fantastic food to eat.

00:17:01.000 One of the very best foods that you can eat.

00:17:03.000 Yeah, I've been eating an ounce a day for years, personally.

00:17:06.000 Yeah.

00:17:06.000 I saw that in the video, too.

00:17:08.000 I eat elk liver. 0.98

00:17:09.000 Whenever I kill an elk, it's a giant-ass liver. 0.97

00:17:12.000 It's like this big. 0.97

00:17:13.000 And I buy a calf's liver and I'll eat liver at restaurants.

00:17:16.000 It's very good for you.

00:17:18.000 Yeah.

00:17:18.000 It's rich in nutrients.

00:17:20.000 Yeah.

00:17:20.000 But that's not going to get you that big.

00:17:23.000 No.

00:17:23.000 That's hyperhuman.

00:17:24.000 Like, what that guy's achieved with his physique is a lot of hard work, no ifs, ands, or buts about it, but also exogenous hormones.

00:17:33.000 Yeah, and it's like there are people out there that are more educational and obviously natural, like Saladino.

00:17:39.000 Yes.

00:17:40.000 Yeah, I feel like he puts out pretty goddamn informative content that still represents his, even if he has a polar extreme, potentially narrow view of what the optimal diet is. 0.66

00:17:50.000 It's very much reinforced by information, thought process, not necessarily his... 0.62

00:17:57.000 He shows up shirtless on camera, and I'm sure some of that was inspired by the Liver King to some extent, because he didn't used to do that.

00:18:02.000 But it's natural.

00:18:03.000 When did he start with his shirtless on camera?

00:18:06.000 I don't know, but maybe half a year ago or nine months ago or so.

00:18:11.000 Wow, I wonder if the liver king inspired him to do it.

00:18:14.000 That's interesting.

00:18:15.000 Yeah, he started showing his meals and showing up shirtless on camera.

00:18:18.000 But he has a great physique and he's natural.

00:18:20.000 Totally natural.

00:18:20.000 Yeah.

00:18:21.000 That's what's achievable.

00:18:22.000 You look at Paul's physique, he looks excellent and it's totally achievable.

00:18:27.000 Yeah, and he's in his 40s still, still has high hormone output, etc.

00:18:31.000 Yeah.

00:18:32.000 He walks the walk and talks the talk.

00:18:33.000 He's a legitimate medical doctor.

00:18:35.000 He's real.

00:18:37.000 And unfortunately, he's in business with the Liver King.

00:18:39.000 Yeah, it's complicated.

00:18:40.000 Have you seen his video about, like, separating?

00:18:44.000 No.

00:18:44.000 Yeah.

00:18:45.000 Fucking crazy. 0.99

00:18:46.000 Alright, let's play his video. 1.00

00:18:48.000 Poor Paul.

00:18:49.000 Poor Paul, brother.

00:18:50.000 He's great.

00:18:51.000 I really like that guy.

00:18:52.000 I don't know if he's accurate.

00:18:54.000 I shouldn't say honest.

00:18:55.000 I meant to say accurate in terms of, like, whether or not vegetables are actually bad for you.

00:19:00.000 Yeah, some of it...

00:19:01.000 Like, again, it's very much leaning into certain extrapolations he's made that support his hypothesis, I feel like, which I feel like could be a stretch in many scenarios where it's just like, this equals bad, not moderate quantities equals potentially cumulatively beneficial for some people.

00:19:20.000 I did a podcast with him not that long ago, and I felt like I gave...

00:19:24.000 Yeah.

00:19:33.000 Yeah.

00:19:38.000 Yeah.

00:19:43.000 He is very, like, I don't know.

00:19:45.000 He's open to the idea that there's some minor benefit potentially to having the hormetic stress of a vegetable in some circumstance, but then in his content that's bite-sized, it very much comes across like... 0.99

00:19:58.000 Seed oils fucking suck. 0.99

00:20:00.000 This equals bad. 1.00

00:20:01.000 Don't touch this.

00:20:02.000 And I don't know.

00:20:04.000 He's definitely finding his own unique way to pick up virality himself, but at least it's centered around what he believes to be truthful. 0.98

00:20:12.000 He's not misleading necessarily with his fucking calculated, pre-planned, meticulously thought out lie, essentially. 0.98

00:20:21.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:20:22.000 Well, let's see what he says, and note that he has his shirt on.

00:20:24.000 Yeah.

00:20:27.000 So I wanted to post a story today with a little more context for the Leverking situation.

00:20:33.000 I posted a reel with my thoughts.

00:20:37.000 I've known Brian for five years, long before his social media presence began.

00:20:42.000 He's a good human at his core.

00:20:45.000 And I'm incredibly disappointed by the steroid revelations, which appear to be true.

00:20:53.000 I think integrity is everything.

00:20:56.000 The most common question that I'm getting asked now is, didn't you know, Paul, about the steroid use?

00:21:01.000 The answer is no.

00:21:03.000 I had my concerns about it.

00:21:04.000 I had my doubts that he was free of PEDs like so many of you. 0.51

00:21:08.000 But on multiple occasions when I challenged him with this, I was told that the answer is no, that he was not on any performance-enhancing drugs.

00:21:16.000 Brian and I are both adult humans.

00:21:18.000 We live thousands of miles apart from each other, but I had no knowledge of his PEG use, though I did have my concerns, as I said.

00:21:25.000 I will take full responsibility for my lack of ability to challenge him with those concerns sooner.

00:21:33.000 When he began getting traction on social media, I should have brought my concerns about the truthfulness, the veracity of his statements, of his claims that he was not using PEDs to him sooner.

00:21:44.000 And like I said, I will take full responsibility for that.

00:21:46.000 That was my mistake.

00:21:48.000 Let's stop right there.

00:21:48.000 I did not know about that.

00:21:49.000 I get it.

00:21:51.000 Here's the problem.

00:21:52.000 He was in business with this guy before he became this gigantic social media presence.

00:21:59.000 That supplement line that Paul...

00:22:02.000 And the Liver King we're involved with, that's existed for years.

00:22:06.000 I mean, he was on my podcast years ago and he gave me some of those supplements.

00:22:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:22:10.000 I think Heart and Soil has been around since well before the Liver King inception.

00:22:14.000 So, back then, it didn't matter.

00:22:17.000 What Paul was trying to do was he was trying to promote supplements that he believed would enhance people's diet.

00:22:27.000 That, you know, if you can't eat enough liver, if you can't get heart and kidney, You know, we could use desiccated forms of it.

00:22:34.000 Yeah, and I think that's a noble way to market it, too, where it's like, I have a, let's say I have a micronutrient deficiency of, I don't know, vitamin A or copper or whatever it is, or choline, for example, like liver is very dense in choline.

00:22:47.000 That sort of thing, using, if you don't like the taste of liver, is it reasonable to have a supplement in capsule format to get the exact same thing in, but without having to eat something you deem to be gross?

00:22:57.000 Like, totally.

00:22:58.000 And I think that's like a totally fair way to market it as well.

00:23:01.000 Yeah.

00:23:01.000 But it's the whole, you know, the other angle.

00:23:04.000 Yeah, but imagine being in business with this guy, and then all of a sudden the guy starts being shirtless, walking around with a chain around his neck.

00:23:11.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:23:12.000 All the crazy shit that he was doing and then saying he's steroid-free. 0.99

00:23:16.000 The crazy thing about it is the first time, as far as I know, that he said and lied to somebody on camera was to the face of Paul. 0.98

00:23:23.000 So that's probably why he feels even more...

00:23:26.000 Really?

00:23:26.000 Yeah.

00:23:27.000 It was on Paul's podcast where he was like, tell everyone about...

00:23:32.000 There's a lot of speculation going around.

00:23:34.000 We've talked about it.

00:23:36.000 Tell them, are you enhanced with PEDs?

00:23:38.000 What do you do to get this physique? 0.95

00:23:40.000 And then he basically just said...

00:23:41.000 This question has done more for the Liver King brand than any other question, and I'm glad you're asking.

00:23:46.000 The answer is no. 1.00

00:23:47.000 I've never done the shit, never going to do the shit. 0.99

00:23:49.000 I feel like, I mean, this is, obviously, this is Monday morning quarterbacking, and Paul's a friend. 1.00

00:23:56.000 I really like Paul.

00:23:57.000 But I feel like you should have asked him to take a blood test.

00:24:00.000 Yeah, like if you're highly suspect of it.

00:24:03.000 You're in business with this guy.

00:24:04.000 Yeah.

00:24:04.000 And now this guy has this gigantic social media presence.

00:24:08.000 Imagine drug testing your fucking business partner. 1.00

00:24:10.000 Yeah, well, I would do that. 1.00

00:24:12.000 Yeah, it's just funny how that's actually justified in this scenario.

00:24:15.000 In that scenario, it is.

00:24:17.000 I think ordinarily, if the guy was just a business partner, of course you wouldn't.

00:24:21.000 But also, of course you wouldn't lie. 1.00

00:24:23.000 Look, if I was friends with the Liver King and he told me he was clean, I'd be like, get the fuck out of here, bitch. 1.00

00:24:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:24:30.000 That's what I would say.

00:24:31.000 I would be like, as a friend, I'd be like, come on, man. 1.00

00:24:33.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

00:24:34.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

00:24:35.000 You're 5'7", 200 plus pounds, solid muscle. 1.00

00:24:39.000 And you're, what, 45 or something like that? 1.00

00:24:41.000 Bitch, get out of here. 1.00

00:24:42.000 You're doing something. 1.00

00:24:43.000 Stop lying.

00:24:44.000 Yeah.

00:24:45.000 Just as a friend.

00:24:46.000 I would be like, I can't be friends with you now.

00:24:48.000 Because now I know if you'll lie about something so similar.

00:24:51.000 Or so simple, rather.

00:24:54.000 No, yeah.

00:24:55.000 I guess, like he did say, you know, I should have grilled him harder. 0.86

00:24:58.000 But then it's like, a lot of people, you know, get on him like, shut up.

00:25:01.000 Like, you should have... 0.51

00:25:03.000 Should've known.

00:25:03.000 He should've known.

00:25:04.000 But he doesn't do anything.

00:25:06.000 So maybe that's why.

00:25:07.000 Maybe if he was on HRT and maybe he was surrounding himself with guys who were really super jacked, maybe he would be more entrenched in that world.

00:25:17.000 But it seems like the kind of exercises that he does, he does a lot of bodyweight stuff and he does a lot of sprints on the beach and surfing.

00:25:25.000 He's not in that world.

00:25:27.000 Yeah, there are some people who are in the know, like you, who would be like, obviously.

00:25:31.000 Like, how could you not know?

00:25:32.000 And a lot of people are coming out and like, oh, big surprise. 0.98

00:25:34.000 Like, who didn't fucking see it coming? 0.87

00:25:36.000 But there are a lot of people, like, potentially even Paul. 0.98

00:25:39.000 Like, some people are doubtful that he's, you know, truthful in that context.

00:25:43.000 But, like, Paul's like a hyper-intelligent individual. 0.70

00:25:44.000 And if he actually didn't know, like, imagine the layman who thinks, you know, the rock is fucking clean, for example. 0.92

00:25:51.000 Right. 0.56

00:25:51.000 Yeah. 0.56

00:25:52.000 Exactly.

00:25:52.000 Does the rock say he's clean?

00:25:54.000 He has implied it pretty heavily, but he also doesn't end up in scenarios where he gets ass point blank, whereas Liver King goes out of his way to fucking lean into it and use it as like a marketing spiel. 0.76

00:26:07.000 The Rock should come clean right now.

00:26:08.000 He should make a video in response to the Liver King video.

00:26:12.000 I need to talk to you, because the Rock's been lying.

00:26:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:26:18.000 There's not a fucking chance in hell he's clean. 0.99

00:26:21.000 No. 0.99

00:26:21.000 Not a chance in hell. 0.99

00:26:23.000 As big as The Rock is, at 50. What was wild is he came out, okay, and I get this is like, coincides with the message he would want to push too, and I don't think it's like disingenuous necessarily, but it's like, he was on a men's health interview and he talks about how his number one priority is longevity now.

00:26:39.000 The Rock?

00:26:40.000 Yeah, and I'm like, dude, like, everything you're doing is, like, the hyper-opposite of that, like, in terms of a diet, a lifestyle, potentially.

00:26:49.000 But, like, the drug exposure to maintain the physique to then do the superhero roles, to do the whatever at his age, like, it's clearly not longevity-focused.

00:26:59.000 It's very much like, how much can I milk this right now with my brand sort of thing.

00:27:03.000 Well, when you're looking at a physique, let's look at a physique of the rock, like a full jacked rock.

00:27:09.000 Find the rock at his most jackety-jacked. 0.93

00:27:12.000 He's pretty fucking peaked in terms of the last few years, he's definitely turned it up a notch. 0.97

00:27:18.000 At 50. Yeah. 0.98

00:27:20.000 That's natural, bro.

00:27:22.000 Yeah, how could you think otherwise?

00:27:23.000 He eats a lot of sushi.

00:27:25.000 But the point is, you can't even get there with HRT. That's not HRT. No.

00:27:32.000 Like that, Jesus Christ.

00:27:35.000 Yeah.

00:27:35.000 And it's like, is this pro-longevity?

00:27:38.000 Like, of course not.

00:27:39.000 No, he's so massive and he's so different than he was when he was 30. Yeah, when you're in your 20s and obviously mindful of your image and, you know, you're still working out like a maniac, you're like a top tier.

00:27:55.000 Like, he's a genetic marvel.

00:27:57.000 As is anyways when he was natural.

00:27:59.000 Yes. 0.98

00:28:00.000 So to have all of a sudden 30 years later, like you're in better form than you were in your 20s, like it's just fucking obvious, obviously. 0.97

00:28:07.000 Yeah. 0.91

00:28:08.000 I mean, this is okay, but there's some better videos of him where it just, you know, shows this preposterous physique that...

00:28:19.000 You know, there's a responsibility that you have to people that are listening to you.

00:28:23.000 And if you don't want to talk about it, that's one thing.

00:28:25.000 But if you do talk about it, there's a responsibility that you have to people that are listening to you.

00:28:30.000 And I think you have to be honest.

00:28:31.000 Which is why I'm honest about it.

00:28:33.000 I don't think there's anything wrong with taking hormone replacement.

00:28:36.000 I think it's actually wise.

00:28:38.000 I think it's healthier.

00:28:39.000 I feel way better than I did before I was doing it.

00:28:42.000 And I started doing it when I was like 37, 38. And even then, I was just taking the cream.

00:28:48.000 I was taking testosterone cream.

00:28:51.000 And right away, I was like, oh my god, I feel so much better.

00:28:54.000 Everything felt better.

00:28:55.000 I don't think it's wrong.

00:28:57.000 I think it's smart.

00:28:59.000 But you've got to be honest.

00:29:02.000 What do you think an A-list actor should do if they were ass point blank in an interview on like a movie?

00:29:07.000 Like they're promoting a movie that they just did where they just piqued their physique and it's clear to the person who can discern what's going on.

00:29:15.000 Like Thor.

00:29:15.000 Yeah, let's just say Hemsworth is in an interview.

00:29:18.000 What do you think he should answer when he's ass point blank?

00:29:21.000 Like did you use any enhancement?

00:29:23.000 Well, Mickey Rourke did.

00:29:25.000 Shout out to Mickey Rourke.

00:29:27.000 Yeah, when Mickey Rourke did The Wrestler, he told everybody.

00:29:29.000 He's like, I think he did... 0.99

00:29:32.000 One of those shows, like Letterman or Colbert or something like that, and he's like, I was on a ton of shit. 1.00

00:29:38.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:29:38.000 Yeah, he's like, oh, I talk a lot of stuff. 0.99

00:29:40.000 Because there's definitely an argument...

00:29:41.000 Mickey's kind of wild, though, you know?

00:29:42.000 Yeah.

00:29:43.000 There's definitely an argument to be made that when you have such an impressionable and massive audience that if you say, this is what it took to get here...

00:29:50.000 It very much could influence the trajectory of certain younger men who are trying to aspire to be like you.

00:29:57.000 So I see both sides of the coin for sure.

00:30:00.000 So it's kind of an interesting scenario for some of the actors because I think just unspokenly some of these interviewers know to not ask the question.

00:30:09.000 Right.

00:30:09.000 But it's just an interesting scenario in which I would wonder what the best...

00:30:15.000 Answer is if it's just point-blank yes.

00:30:17.000 Well, let me tell you a case.

00:30:19.000 There was a guy who got really jacked for a superhero role, and he did a friend of mine's podcast, and he said to him before the podcast, I'll talk about anything, but do not ask me about drugs.

00:30:29.000 Just please don't talk to me about steroids or drugs.

00:30:32.000 It was the number one thing he did not want to talk about.

00:30:37.000 I think Studios and the, you know, the massive amount of money that's involved in a film, like the one thing they don't want is to jeopardize any of the potential income, right?

00:30:52.000 Yeah.

00:30:52.000 And if you come out and say, you know, the only way I got this way for the Hulk is I had to take massive amounts of steroids and this is just how it is, people are going to get upset.

00:31:02.000 Oh, you cheated.

00:31:04.000 Yeah.

00:31:04.000 There's a mentality as you go further down the line that people are less and less educated about the realities of fitness and physiques.

00:31:12.000 As you go further and further down the line, there's a mentality where people are like, Barry Bonds cheated.

00:31:17.000 Mark McGuire cheated.

00:31:20.000 Those are cheaters.

00:31:21.000 Or Lance Armstrong.

00:31:22.000 Yeah, Lance Armstrong cheated.

00:31:25.000 And they're just uneducated.

00:31:26.000 And unfortunately, we're playing to that.

00:31:30.000 And mainstream television is so woefully piss poor at interviewing these people and pressing them.

00:31:37.000 And they let them off the hook every time. 0.98

00:31:40.000 Every single time, whether it's Thor, whether it's Hemsworth, or any of these people who got super fucking jacked for a movie. 0.94

00:31:49.000 Like, Wolverine. 1.00

00:31:50.000 Like, cut the fucking shit. 1.00

00:31:52.000 You're as wild as apparently he's coming back to be Wolverine again. 1.00

00:31:56.000 But they're gonna CGI it.

00:31:57.000 Oh, they are.

00:31:58.000 Okay.

00:31:58.000 Yeah, he said he can't do that anymore.

00:32:01.000 And, you know, he's probably- Fair.

00:32:03.000 Yeah, and he's also in his 50s.

00:32:05.000 He's probably like, I am not doing this cycle. 0.98

00:32:07.000 I'm not gonna commit to fucking killing myself, potentially. 0.99

00:32:11.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:32:11.000 I mean, what do you think a guy like that gets on to get that big? 0.98

00:32:15.000 I mean, what kind of stuff?

00:32:16.000 I've never gotten that big.

00:32:18.000 So when you get that big, like, what do you want?

00:32:21.000 Well, Wolverine, I feel like his physique was largely low body fat more so than, like, Massive amounts of size.

00:32:29.000 Yeah, and that one, that's a good point.

00:32:32.000 The most stacked he's been is that picture right there, basically.

00:32:35.000 And you can just see it in the traps.

00:32:36.000 Yeah, that's actually achievable.

00:32:38.000 Yeah.

00:32:38.000 Guys have definitely...

00:32:40.000 That Paul Sklar guy is built like that.

00:32:41.000 It's just in the condensed time frame and the unique circumstances imposed on these individuals who go into the prep not looking like anything, that's where it gets unrealistic, and they're just...

00:32:54.000 Completely transforming in a matter of, like, 12 weeks.

00:32:57.000 Right.

00:32:57.000 Yeah.

00:32:58.000 He looks pretty jacked there.

00:32:59.000 Yeah.

00:33:00.000 Look, he got massive. 1.00

00:33:01.000 He probably took some shit. 1.00

00:33:02.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:33:03.000 But, like, Hemsworth got bigger than that, right?

00:33:05.000 Yeah.

00:33:06.000 But he also has better genetics, for sure.

00:33:08.000 Yeah.

00:33:08.000 I actually talked to his trainer.

00:33:10.000 It was, uh...

00:33:11.000 For the first role he ever did, the first Thor movie, he had this guy who was like, uh...

00:33:17.000 Chris Duffin or something.

00:33:18.000 I forget the guy's name.

00:33:19.000 But that guy outsourced a trainer who was local to Chris to work with him.

00:33:25.000 And that guy claims he had...

00:33:27.000 I asked him Point Blake.

00:33:28.000 He was like, I have no idea what they were doing.

00:33:31.000 Like, even the guy who was literally with him in the gym...

00:33:33.000 He could be lying to my face, though, too.

00:33:35.000 But he said he had no recollection of them, no idea that they were doing anything.

00:33:41.000 As far as he knows, it was all natural.

00:33:43.000 I'm just like...

00:33:45.000 Yeah.

00:33:46.000 Yeah.

00:33:46.000 It's a weird world, isn't it?

00:33:48.000 Like, where you're supposed to kind of be full of shit about that stuff? 0.99

00:33:51.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:33:52.000 Because it's so obvious to people.

00:33:54.000 Yeah.

00:33:55.000 Like, you know, one of the interesting things...

00:33:58.000 I don't actually think it's problematic, by the way, for somebody to juice up for a role to represent a superhero character.

00:34:05.000 It's more when they, like...

00:34:19.000 Yeah.

00:34:20.000 Yeah.

00:34:34.000 Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing steroids to achieve that sort of physique for a movie either.

00:34:40.000 I do think there's something wrong with lying about it.

00:34:44.000 But there's also, if you went on a show...

00:34:47.000 See, when Mickey Rourke did it, he did it for The Wrestler.

00:34:51.000 When he talked about it, he talked about doing steroids for the wrestler, and that was a movie that wasn't really about a hero. 0.92

00:34:58.000 It was about a guy who's down and out, and he's all fucked up, and he's doing drugs, and he's a mess.

00:35:05.000 It's not an admirable character that people would aspire to be, like Black Adam. 1.00

00:35:15.000 The Rock, and he's standing there with his shirt off, with his shorts on, there's not a man alive who doesn't want to be built like that.

00:35:21.000 They all want to be built like that.

00:35:22.000 So if he's telling you that he's not doing anything to get that, and I don't know if he is.

00:35:28.000 Is he telling people?

00:35:30.000 Does he say, I've never taken steroids in my life?

00:35:32.000 Does he say that?

00:35:32.000 He said in one instance that when he was 18, him and his friends took something, and it gave him gynecomastia, and then he never touched it again, or something like that.

00:35:42.000 That seems a suspect.

00:35:43.000 Super suspect.

00:35:44.000 First of all, when you're 18, just doing something once is not going to give you gyno.

00:35:49.000 It could.

00:35:50.000 Could it really?

00:35:50.000 The most prevalence I've seen of gyno development is in individuals who, like, without enough information, went into haphazard use of, like, a pro-hormone or, like, an oral steroid without understanding, like, the pharmacology around it and then fucked themselves up.

00:36:06.000 One time?

00:36:07.000 Yeah.

00:36:08.000 Really?

00:36:09.000 Yeah.

00:36:09.000 Like, you do, like, a heavy cycle of D-ball or something, get some gyno, and...

00:36:12.000 No shit. 0.99

00:36:13.000 I thought it would take a few cycles. 0.99

00:36:15.000 To develop into, like, a significant matured titty, then, yeah.

00:36:21.000 But, like, it depends on the genetic predisposition, because some guys get gyno just through puberty, too.

00:36:26.000 Really?

00:36:27.000 Yeah. 0.72

00:36:27.000 Oh, it's just a natural thing that just fucks up. 0.72

00:36:30.000 Yeah.

00:36:30.000 Interesting.

00:36:31.000 Yeah.

00:36:32.000 Well, him saying that he did something once when he was 18, he got gyno.

00:36:35.000 Like, how'd you take care of it?

00:36:37.000 What'd you do to get rid of the gyno? 1.00

00:36:39.000 Yeah, presumably.

00:36:40.000 Right.

00:36:41.000 You have to have an operation.

00:36:42.000 Yeah.

00:36:42.000 Like, people need to understand, like, that's not fluid.

00:36:44.000 It's like a gland gets bigger, right?

00:36:46.000 Yeah, it's like a literal glandular tissue that you need to get, like, surgically removed.

00:36:50.000 Yeah.

00:36:50.000 Have you ever seen it, the operation?

00:36:52.000 Oh yeah, I've done videos on it.

00:36:53.000 Oh, that's right, you have.

00:36:54.000 It's horrible. 0.97

00:36:56.000 It's like you're pulling those little alien chestbursters out of your titty. 1.00

00:36:59.000 It's amazing how much mass there is behind those things.

00:37:02.000 Oh yeah. 0.98

00:37:03.000 Even for such a little, something that's just barely protruding cosmetically, just at an objective look, when you actually look at what came out, it's like, damn, that's a fuck ton of tissue. 1.00

00:37:14.000 It's a fucking egg. 1.00

00:37:15.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:37:16.000 Yeah, it's gross.

00:37:17.000 Yeah.

00:37:18.000 Yeah, but I don't...

00:37:19.000 I mean, if he's saying that, that's all he's ever done, that's crazy talk.

00:37:23.000 Yeah.

00:37:24.000 It's like at that point, it's weird.

00:37:26.000 It's like trying to half tell the truth, but not at all at the same time.

00:37:31.000 Also, when you look at his physique in the early days of the WWE... Oh, nothing in comparison.

00:37:36.000 Yeah, let's go to like the early days of The Rock.

00:37:39.000 I mean, he was, like, very athletic.

00:37:43.000 I mean, great genetics.

00:37:44.000 Big, strong guy.

00:37:46.000 Yeah.

00:37:46.000 But he didn't look anything like he looks now.

00:37:49.000 The mass and the striations and the vascularity.

00:37:53.000 This version of him did, but, like, this version definitely didn't.

00:37:56.000 Yeah.

00:37:56.000 Like, that version.

00:37:58.000 I mean, he's fit!

00:37:59.000 On the right, yeah.

00:38:00.000 Looks good, but look at the difference there.

00:38:03.000 Yeah.

00:38:04.000 That's that hair, then.

00:38:05.000 Yeah, I mean, looks very fit. 0.99

00:38:08.000 I mean, he's a fucking... 1.00

00:38:09.000 He's pretty jacked. 1.00

00:38:11.000 That's more recent, because that's the crazy tattoo.

00:38:14.000 That's him now.

00:38:16.000 I mean, this is much older. 0.99

00:38:17.000 I mean, he's a fucking massive, heavily muscled guy. 0.96

00:38:22.000 Some shots of him are just like... 0.98

00:38:25.000 So what kind of stuff do you think...

00:38:27.000 Well, that was...

00:38:28.000 He looks pretty good there.

00:38:30.000 He just doesn't look lean.

00:38:31.000 I think there was like...

00:38:32.000 Type in The Rock, Scorpion King.

00:38:35.000 I think that was an old enough movie where it was like on the red carpet, the guy just looked like a totally... 0.95

00:38:42.000 I don't know, like a shell of what he is now.

00:38:44.000 And that was a long...

00:38:47.000 Come on, not bad.

00:38:48.000 This is bad CGI. Maybe this isn't a good example.

00:38:52.000 Why don't you look red carpet?

00:38:54.000 It looks pretty good there.

00:38:56.000 Yeah, that's good.

00:38:56.000 I forget which...

00:38:58.000 Well, maybe on the red carpet, he was off the cycle.

00:39:00.000 There was one picture where it just looked dramatically different.

00:39:04.000 I don't remember exactly what year it was.

00:39:07.000 Okay, it wasn't that year.

00:39:09.000 Yeah, no, he looks pretty big.

00:39:10.000 Yeah.

00:39:11.000 Look, he's a giant dude.

00:39:13.000 Massive human being.

00:39:15.000 And, you know, clearly when he's lean and, you know, he looks great.

00:39:19.000 But what do you think you would have to do to achieve that kind of a physique at 50?

00:39:25.000 First of all, you wouldn't maintain that kind of mass as you naturally got older normally, right?

00:39:30.000 No, definitely not.

00:39:31.000 Like, it's, like, the total...

00:39:32.000 Again, it's, like, there's a reason why I feel that your body naturally down-regulates a lot of processes, too, potentially to, like, conserve, like, stay alive longer.

00:39:42.000 Because the bigger of a human you are, the faster you're going to die in general.

00:39:46.000 Like, I don't see many, like, seven-foot guys walking around at 80-plus years old, personally.

00:39:51.000 Very few.

00:39:51.000 Isn't, like, Bill Russell was, like, one of the few?

00:39:54.000 He passed away.

00:39:55.000 How old was he, though?

00:39:56.000 He was quite old.

00:39:57.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:39:57.000 I think he got close to 90. Yeah.

00:39:59.000 Okay.

00:40:00.000 Yeah, but in general, even bodybuilders, again, they're subjecting themselves to absurd amounts of drugs, but at the same time, the sheer body weight and the stress it imposes on all organ systems and the longevity of everything internally, not just...

00:40:16.000 Right.

00:40:17.000 Right.

00:40:24.000 Right.

00:40:26.000 Right. 0.96

00:40:37.000 And it seems like he's been like pretty fucking dialed about maintaining it like year over year now. 0.97

00:40:41.000 Yeah, he's never really gotten thin or fat or never shrunk down then built back up. 0.97

00:40:47.000 There's definitely something about once you've built the tissue you can retain it with like a very modest amount or at least to some extent like it's still going to typically be something outside of what would be normally achievable in terms of your hormone production because if you went totally natural you would just fucking melt away. 0.69

00:41:11.000 Yes. 0.58

00:41:13.000 Yes.

00:41:14.000 Yes.

00:41:29.000 It's not, it wouldn't be unthinkable that, or unfathomable, whatever the terminology would be, that he would use a shit ton or like a decent amount, blast, got to where he is, and then he could sustain it with what he deems to be not healthy, but like healthy enough that he can sort of just like cruise on it and like hold his shape for whatever,

00:41:48.000 the foreseeable future of him doing these kind of roles.

00:41:50.000 So what kind of stuff do you think someone would take to achieve that sort of physique?

00:41:55.000 I don't think it's very dissimilar from what, like, Liver King, everything he's doing is pharmacy-derived and prescribed.

00:42:02.000 Like, there was a reason why the compounds he chose, some of them are...

00:42:06.000 Like, for example, Winstrel, not something that has a clinical application generally, but, like, there are certain medications that are only available through a pharmacy legally.

00:42:15.000 You can get prescribed by a doctor and get overseen by a doctor.

00:42:18.000 So, like, I would imagine The Rock...

00:42:20.000 Is not touching stuff like Trendolone.

00:42:22.000 That's, you know, like an underground product that is not going to have, like, pharmaceutical standards for its production.

00:42:28.000 And it's just not, like, a safe compound.

00:42:30.000 Not that any of them are safe, but, like, generally it's not the most, I don't know, risk-averse compound.

00:42:37.000 And what are the risks when someone, especially when someone's, like, 50 and you're doing that?

00:42:41.000 Like, what are the risks?

00:42:43.000 Significant, like, heart enlargement.

00:42:46.000 And like impeding the actual function of the cardiovascular system in general, kidney stress, depending on if you're using oral steroids or not, liver toxicity, neurodegeneration is going to be accelerated from high doses of androgens.

00:42:59.000 Like across the board, it's just like broad spectrum, terrible for you.

00:43:05.000 So it is that interesting moral dilemma.

00:43:09.000 Like what do those people say when they're confronted if they do want to be this...

00:43:16.000 You know, they're trying to be this character that is a superhero, and it's something that people are going to look up to.

00:43:24.000 And, you know, they're a role model for young men.

00:43:27.000 Look at this fit, healthy guy who's in the gym pushing it every day, the hardest worker in the room, like that kind of deal.

00:43:34.000 Yeah.

00:43:35.000 No, it's a weird, interesting scenario.

00:43:38.000 And it's wild because it's like you can know for certain the rock wouldn't be who he is if it wasn't for the steroids and his physique.

00:43:45.000 The physique is the selling point.

00:43:47.000 It's like a really hot girl who decided to just let herself go.

00:43:53.000 There's no way.

00:43:54.000 Yeah.

00:43:55.000 And to answer your question earlier, like, what you would do to get that, like, I imagine he was probably, he's probably prescribed, like, a base amount of testosterone that he, like, titrates up and down based on whatever he needs to do for his roles.

00:44:06.000 I imagine he's on, like, a base of growth hormone, and then he probably intertwines in things like DECA here and there, like, I imagine for joint support, but also, like, additional fullness, anabolism, etc.

00:44:16.000 And then maybe like Anivar is like a hardening agent when he's preparing for roles that need to get like more dry and grainy looking.

00:44:22.000 But in general, it's going to be stuff that is prescribable by his overseeing whoever it is that's overseeing his care.

00:44:29.000 These can be pharmaceutical grade compounds that you can have actual medical oversight.

00:44:35.000 Like no doctor is going to recommend you take like a Trenbolone, for example.

00:44:40.000 He looks amazing. 0.99

00:44:42.000 Yeah, it's like a fucking bodybuilder level front double. 0.99

00:44:45.000 Yeah, he looks fucking great. 0.99

00:44:46.000 The question is... 0.94

00:44:50.000 If these guys are doing media events and they're going on these talk shows and they're being interviewed for interviews and stuff, and they're not telling the truth about that, are they even being questioned?

00:45:06.000 I mean, is anybody questioning The Rock or questioning Hemsworth?

00:45:08.000 I think they kind of know it's not going to turn out well if they ask.

00:45:12.000 They probably get fired, I imagine, if they actually ask that question to them.

00:45:15.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:45:16.000 Yeah.

00:45:17.000 Because I think that's an important topic.

00:45:18.000 Yeah.

00:45:19.000 No, and it just gets swept under the rug because it's like – it's nothing about answering the question other than getting the breaking story as conducive to that reporter's, like, longevity of their career.

00:45:29.000 Right.

00:45:30.000 Essentially.

00:45:30.000 It's really unfortunate that that – that even HRT has gotten such a weird – It's in this very bizarre category of things that people avoid discussing.

00:45:43.000 Oh, yeah.

00:45:44.000 I know guys that are sheepishly asking questions and trying to get on it now that are friends of mine that, like, 10 years ago used to mock me for it.

00:45:56.000 They're like, why are you taking that stuff?

00:45:57.000 I'm like, why aren't you taking it?

00:45:59.000 Yeah.

00:45:59.000 You know, like, what's wrong with you?

00:46:00.000 No, even the celebrities that are honest, with the exception of maybe, like, Mickey Rourke or something, are, like, pretty careful and calculated about how they even represent their HRT, which could be, like, a therapeutic amount.

00:46:13.000 Like, there was one interview, it was, like, I think it was Kumail Nanjiani talking with...

00:46:19.000 Ah, what's his name?

00:46:21.000 Rob McElhenney from It's Always Sunny.

00:46:23.000 I forget the name of the show.

00:46:24.000 But, like, obviously Kumail totally, completely morphed his physique.

00:46:29.000 Morphed? 0.98

00:46:29.000 Yeah, the guys have fucking mutated in, like, a year. 0.98

00:46:32.000 And then, yeah, Rob McElhenney did, like, a wild transformation, too. 0.98

00:46:35.000 And they were talking about, like, their...

00:46:38.000 I think it was Rob who said, like, yeah, my testosterone level is, like...

00:46:41.000 He said something finicky to basically sort of deflect, but also say, like, yeah, I'm on HRT kind of thing.

00:46:49.000 Yeah.

00:46:49.000 Whoa.

00:46:50.000 Yeah.

00:46:50.000 He's jacked now.

00:46:52.000 Yeah.

00:46:52.000 He's in his 40s?

00:46:53.000 How old is he?

00:46:54.000 He did that on purpose, too, to gain a bunch of weight.

00:46:56.000 Yeah.

00:46:56.000 To be funny for the show.

00:46:58.000 Oh, so he got fat?

00:47:00.000 He got fat on purpose for the show and then got ripped on purpose, too. 0.98

00:47:03.000 And it said, like, it's really hard as fuck to do that without him being a celebrity and have all the resources he has. 0.99

00:47:09.000 It's also really bad for you to get fat like that. 0.98

00:47:11.000 Like, to do that for a show?

00:47:13.000 Like...

00:47:14.000 When people do that for a show, it's like, Jesus Christ.

00:47:17.000 What was the context of the, why did he get fat again?

00:47:19.000 Again, it was like, I think it was like, I don't know, season eight?

00:47:22.000 This show's been on a long time, and he's just like, I'm bored, and it's like, it would be really funny if I got fat.

00:47:27.000 And that's just the characters.

00:47:28.000 It was funny. 1.00

00:47:30.000 How funny would it be if I just ate like shit for four months straight and just got fat as hell? 1.00

00:47:35.000 Hilarious, right? 1.00

00:47:36.000 Yeah.

00:47:36.000 Didn't Marky Mark do that?

00:47:39.000 Didn't Wahlberg do that for a role?

00:47:41.000 Get really fat for a role?

00:47:42.000 If he did, that was probably like makeup.

00:47:44.000 I don't know if he would let himself go like that.

00:47:45.000 I think he did.

00:47:47.000 I think he did.

00:47:48.000 For pain and gain, him and The Rock were playing like bodybuilder dudes.

00:47:51.000 Yeah.

00:47:51.000 And they both gained like quite a bit of size for it.

00:47:54.000 Yeah.

00:47:55.000 I don't think he ever got like fat though, necessarily.

00:47:57.000 But I could be wrong.

00:47:58.000 You're not wrong.

00:47:58.000 He gained like 20. It says 20 pounds.

00:48:00.000 Okay.

00:48:01.000 What was that for?

00:48:01.000 Yeah.

00:48:02.000 So what was that movie?

00:48:03.000 This could have been for that new movie Father Stew he did.

00:48:05.000 I don't know if it's specifically that.

00:48:07.000 Yeah.

00:48:07.000 Because I remember reading about how...

00:48:08.000 Wahlberg claims natural too, which is wild.

00:48:11.000 Hmm.

00:48:12.000 Yeah.

00:48:12.000 30 pounds for Father Stew.

00:48:14.000 Yeah.

00:48:14.000 There was some guy that I think knew...

00:48:16.000 He could be natural on the left.

00:48:18.000 Uh, yeah.

00:48:19.000 No, he could be, but I think, uh, I forget who it was, but, like, somebody had a list of, some steroid dealer that had, like, a list of customers and leaked it, and he was, like, on the list.

00:48:31.000 And then he was questioned by a reporter, and he just, like, was like, I don't know what you're talking about.

00:48:36.000 I'm all natural.

00:48:39.000 That's weird that you...

00:48:41.000 It's just a weird...

00:48:43.000 For someone like you...

00:48:45.000 Who is very well-versed and really understands it.

00:48:48.000 And your show, by the way, for people who don't know, it's called More Plates, More Dates, and it's on YouTube, and it's a goofy name, but it's a great show.

00:48:55.000 I'd love to ask you about that direction, by the way, because I've been thinking about, should I change it?

00:49:01.000 As I get older, I sort of like...

00:49:02.000 I don't think you have to.

00:49:04.000 I mean, it's kind of funny.

00:49:06.000 And everybody knows it.

00:49:08.000 I think it's catchy, but it's like, I made it when I was like, I don't know, early 20s, and it's just like...

00:49:17.000 Yeah.

00:49:19.000 Yeah.

00:49:25.000 Yeah.

00:49:27.000 Yeah.

00:49:28.000 Yeah.

00:49:37.000 Right.

00:49:38.000 I know what you mean.

00:49:38.000 Yeah.

00:49:39.000 Yeah.

00:49:40.000 Well, the thing is, like, everyone knows that name right now, and the problem is, like, if you did change it, there would be at least a period of time where people were just like, where is he?

00:49:49.000 Where'd he go?

00:49:49.000 Like, why is he this now?

00:49:52.000 There would be confusion.

00:49:53.000 Yeah, like, even this episode would be named More Plates, More Dates.

00:49:56.000 Yeah.

00:49:57.000 I don't think it's a problem.

00:49:59.000 I mean, I get it, though.

00:50:00.000 It's kind of a funny story, though, that you started when you were in your early 20s, and now you're actually more mature.

00:50:07.000 Yeah.

00:50:08.000 I try to...

00:50:09.000 Sometimes when I see channels like PewDiePie or some of these channel names that are just objectively kind of, I don't know, silly or whatever, I'm like, oh, well, they did fine, so who am I to think I should do differently or something, but...

00:50:23.000 I think you're fine, because everybody knows...

00:50:25.000 It's just...

00:50:26.000 They know the story.

00:50:27.000 It's like you've had the channel for a long time.

00:50:29.000 Yeah.

00:50:30.000 I think it's fine.

00:50:30.000 Look at Mr. Beast.

00:50:31.000 It's the biggest channel on there.

00:50:32.000 Great example.

00:50:33.000 What does Mr. Beast mean?

00:50:34.000 Right.

00:50:35.000 I think it was his gamer tag when he was- Yeah, exactly.

00:50:38.000 Everyone knows who he is now.

00:50:39.000 Yeah, perfect.

00:50:40.000 Yeah.

00:50:41.000 Yeah, I don't think you have to change it.

00:50:42.000 I think the negatives of changing it outweigh the positives.

00:50:45.000 Okay.

00:50:46.000 Yeah.

00:50:47.000 And also the positive, it's like, it's part of the charm of the show is that it has a goofy name. 0.99

00:50:53.000 Because you're obviously saying some very intelligent shit and very knowledgeable shit. 0.99

00:50:57.000 But you have the silly, more plates, more dates. 0.99

00:51:00.000 I feel like there's a barrier to entry that might be higher for the demographic as I age, though, where it's like...

00:51:07.000 Harder to take the, I don't know, an initial piece of content as a new viewer. 0.97

00:51:12.000 You're just like, what is this, like, douchey fucking bodybuilder channel. 0.99

00:51:15.000 Right. 0.99

00:51:16.000 Yeah.

00:51:16.000 But when people listen to you talk, also the complete lack of pretension in your production.

00:51:21.000 I mean, you're sitting there with a fucking air conditioner behind you. 0.99

00:51:24.000 What is that? 1.00

00:51:25.000 It's a secret, bro.

00:51:26.000 I can't tell.

00:51:26.000 You can't tell what it is?

00:51:27.000 Yeah.

00:51:29.000 It looks like something that Gru would have in the Minions movie.

00:51:36.000 But it's fine.

00:51:38.000 I don't think you need to change that.

00:51:40.000 But people like you in the world that you live in, where you're constantly examining the efficacy of supplements and of modalities and strategies for fitness and health and longevity and all these different things,

00:51:57.000 For you, when you see people talking about being natural, they're clearly not natural.

00:52:03.000 It's offensive, isn't it?

00:52:05.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:52:06.000 For me, it's offensive, too. 0.98

00:52:09.000 I rarely talk shit about people. 0.99

00:52:11.000 But the Liver King thing, I was like, get the fuck out of here. 0.99

00:52:14.000 Just stop. 0.91

00:52:15.000 The thing that rubbed me the wrong way the most about it and is kind of like what compelled me to even make a video was because he was seeking coaching without the...

00:52:27.000 Disclosure of what the plan was to do with that help.

00:52:30.000 So it's like, I am going to enhance myself, and I'm already, you know, enhanced as is, in order to blow up by this exact date, but I'm not going to tell you, even the guy who I'm trying to seek help from potentially, like, this is what I'm doing with it.

00:52:46.000 So it's like you're almost, like, aiding in the fraudulent activity a little bit.

00:52:51.000 Yeah.

00:52:52.000 And it's just like, I don't know, it just, like, was crossing the line of...

00:52:56.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:52:58.000 And it's just bad when people are very high profile and they're super duper jacked and they're trying to say they just get it from eating kidneys. 1.00

00:53:07.000 It's just stupid. 1.00

00:53:08.000 It's just not good for anybody. 1.00

00:53:10.000 Anyone like yourself who knows...

00:53:15.000 Like, that's an unusual amount of muscle for a human body to possess.

00:53:20.000 Yeah.

00:53:20.000 I mean, he's a massive, massive guy.

00:53:22.000 Yeah, just insulting the intelligence of people who are...

00:53:25.000 Yeah.

00:53:26.000 But the good thing is that, though, it does...

00:53:29.000 Especially the way you covered it.

00:53:31.000 You covered it brilliantly.

00:53:33.000 I appreciate it.

00:53:34.000 And it's a very long and comprehensive video that goes over the entire saga, how it began, who he is, what he's done, all the statements that he's made about being natural on multiple occasions.

00:53:47.000 It illuminates people to the realities of physiques and of this dilemma that we're talking about with role models and superheroes and these actors.

00:53:59.000 Actors are in the most insulated world.

00:54:02.000 It's very brave when an actor just comes out and says their opinions about controversial subjects or expresses some...

00:54:12.000 Opinion that's not mainstream, because that's dangerous for your career.

00:54:17.000 If you want to make it in show business in Hollywood, what Mark Wahlberg has done is brilliant. 0.99

00:54:23.000 He shuts the fuck up. 0.73

00:54:24.000 And when he talks, he doesn't talk much, and he doesn't talk about anything heavy-duty, and occasionally does, and they come down for him. 0.99

00:54:31.000 They come after him when he does.

00:54:34.000 You've got to be real careful.

00:54:35.000 Because if you just start saying, look at me, look at these guns, you don't get like this normally.

00:54:41.000 This is not normal.

00:54:43.000 Guys with 21-inch arms, this is not normal.

00:54:46.000 How do you think I'm doing steroids?

00:54:49.000 But they don't do it.

00:54:50.000 They can't do it.

00:54:50.000 They literally can't.

00:54:52.000 But if you talk to a guy like Mark Bell, he's a great example.

00:54:57.000 He's telling you, I've done steroids my whole life.

00:54:59.000 Look at the size of him.

00:55:00.000 He's a giant. 1.00

00:55:01.000 That's why I got so confused that he didn't think that the Liver King was full of shit. 0.99

00:55:05.000 And that's why, I don't know, like, I don't know if he just really likes him as a human or what his, like, if he didn't want to call him out to his face or what. 0.99

00:55:14.000 But it's like, it was, uh, I'm having a hard time grasping that he didn't think that was the case.

00:55:21.000 But I know he thinks other people he's friends with or is aware of are Natural who looked even more insane than Liver King. 0.92

00:55:28.000 Like who?

00:55:28.000 Mike O'Hearn.

00:55:29.000 You ever seen him?

00:55:30.000 Yeah.

00:55:31.000 Mike O'Tren.

00:55:32.000 Yeah.

00:55:33.000 I saw that guy on a plane once.

00:55:36.000 He was on a flight with his dog.

00:55:38.000 He's gigantic.

00:55:40.000 Yeah.

00:55:41.000 And he says he's natural?

00:55:42.000 Yeah, he even responded to the Liver King thing and he was like...

00:55:46.000 What?!

00:55:47.000 Oh my god, he's so big.

00:55:50.000 Is that possible?

00:55:52.000 Is it possible?

00:55:53.000 That's the thing.

00:55:57.000 Who knows, man? 1.00

00:55:58.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:55:59.000 If Coleman looks the way he did, is it possible that this guy could be the hyper-extreme outlier? 1.00

00:56:05.000 Isn't Michael Hearn like 50?

00:56:07.000 He's like 53 or something.

00:56:09.000 The thing, though, that's problematic is he does nothing to prove otherwise.

00:56:14.000 Like, he could easily go get a blood test and a drug test and prove people wrong.

00:56:19.000 Like Paul Sklar did.

00:56:20.000 Yeah, like, even with Paul, like, he still did what I think he was capable of with his resources to get tested, and he showed.

00:56:30.000 He went out of his way to do it.

00:56:30.000 But, like, there was this one guy, Matt Does Fitness.

00:56:33.000 He's seen as, like, this fake natty in the fitness industry because he looks amazing at, you know, his body composition, and he was just sick of it.

00:56:42.000 So he contacted me to facilitate, like, actual drug testing.

00:56:46.000 Like, as if I was a USADA entity or something.

00:56:49.000 And he put up a budget of money in the thousands of dollars range to get randomly drug tested with urine and concurrent blood testing.

00:56:58.000 And like, I carried, chose all the tests he was getting to be as bulletproof as possible. 0.79

00:57:03.000 And we would have a guy literally just show up when he's fucking lifting, at home, wherever. 0.95

00:57:08.000 Pull his blood and get his urine and then test it to prove. 0.97

00:57:11.000 And he's been doing it for like half a year now and concurrently showing that his lifts are not going down.

00:57:18.000 So not only is his body composition staying the same, but his lifts have not changed.

00:57:22.000 And he's passing the drug tests, which are like bulletproof tests facilitated by somebody who's not himself because he's not walking into the lab on his own accord whenever he wants sort of thing.

00:57:33.000 I'm not saying that everyone should go do that because that was a hard thing to coordinate, but that would be like...

00:57:39.000 Who is this guy again?

00:57:39.000 What's his name?

00:57:40.000 Matt Does Fitness.

00:57:41.000 You got him?

00:57:42.000 Yeah.

00:57:43.000 Yeah, so that guy's natural.

00:57:44.000 That's incredible.

00:57:45.000 But also, he looks like he's about 30. How old is that guy?

00:57:48.000 He's like 36, I think.

00:57:50.000 Is he?

00:57:51.000 Yeah.

00:57:51.000 Well, that's extraordinary.

00:57:53.000 That's very difficult to achieve, and that guy must work very hard.

00:57:58.000 He's a genetic freak, for sure.

00:58:00.000 Excellent genetics, works very hard, but kudos to him for taking all of those tests. 0.99

00:58:07.000 Yeah, like it was more bulletproof than actual fucking UFC testing. 0.91

00:58:11.000 Now, let's follow up with that guy in 15 years and see what he looks like, right? 0.92

00:58:15.000 Because if he can keep that Paul Sklar level of fitness, because Sklar is, I think, 50, right?

00:58:21.000 Or 51. Yeah.

00:58:23.000 But that's...

00:58:25.000 It's so funny, the eye test, when you look at someone.

00:58:29.000 You go, like, that's possible.

00:58:30.000 That's possible.

00:58:31.000 Yeah.

00:58:32.000 Like, when I look at Paul Sklar, that's possible. 0.99

00:58:34.000 When you look at The Rock, you go, get the fuck out of here. 1.00

00:58:36.000 Get the fuck... 1.00

00:58:37.000 When you look at The Liver King, get the fuck out of here. 1.00

00:58:39.000 When you look at that Michael Hearn guy... 0.99

00:58:41.000 Yeah.

00:58:42.000 No, the Mike O'Hearn example is it's wild that he leans.

00:58:45.000 He doesn't go as hard as Liver King, I guess, in that he's like...

00:58:51.000 But it's weird because he definitely likes to poke fun at it, even though he will not go out of his way to show any blood testing or do anything to reinforce his natural status other than, oh, look at me at like 15 years old.

00:59:03.000 I'm bigger than you now.

00:59:04.000 So like obviously it's just natural progression.

00:59:06.000 It's like, yeah, you're a genetic freak, which is why you look the way you do on gear now.

00:59:11.000 Right.

00:59:11.000 Exactly.

00:59:11.000 That's a very good point.

00:59:13.000 Because there's a lot of people that if they took testosterone or they took a bunch of different steroids, they still would look like shit. 1.00

00:59:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:59:21.000 Oh, tons of guys.

00:59:21.000 Yeah.

00:59:22.000 Yeah, sometimes you'd be shocked that if you walk into a public gym, like, who's actually on gear and who's not.

00:59:26.000 Sometimes the guys who are natural look better than the guys on gear.

00:59:29.000 Yeah.

00:59:29.000 Jesus Christ.

00:59:31.000 Yeah.

00:59:31.000 Look at that.

00:59:32.000 Imagine saying that you're 53 years old and you're natural and you're built that way.

00:59:37.000 Yeah.

00:59:37.000 That is crazy.

00:59:38.000 Yeah, like, that's insulting.

00:59:39.000 It's insulting.

00:59:40.000 Yeah.

00:59:41.000 I mean, the guy's obviously got incredible genetics and obviously works very hard, but also...

00:59:46.000 Yeah.

00:59:48.000 Saucer.

00:59:49.000 Yeah.

00:59:50.000 He's a little saucer.

00:59:51.000 Yeah.

00:59:52.000 He sold some, like, potentially unethical products, too.

00:59:56.000 Oh.

00:59:56.000 What are those?

00:59:57.000 Like, he said duck eggs were, like, far superior to normal eggs, which, I don't know, like, I haven't even looked into the micronutrient, like, proportions of it to see if that to be true.

01:00:06.000 Well, they're bigger.

01:00:07.000 But he was selling, like, a duck egg extract product for, like, 700 bucks or something.

01:00:12.000 And, like, very much implying that it was supporting his physique.

01:00:17.000 Yeah.

01:00:17.000 Duck egg extract.

01:00:19.000 Why wouldn't you just go get duck eggs?

01:00:21.000 I had a duck egg recently.

01:00:23.000 It was terrible.

01:00:24.000 It was like one of those things where it's like, oh, you know, like even in cosmetics, they'll like take a peptide, some obscure name, and like extract it and be like, oh, we put it into this face serum and this thing that came from some natural source.

01:00:34.000 It's like the secret for, you know, eternal youth sort of thing.

01:00:39.000 Yeah.

01:00:39.000 It was just like the commercialization of the thing that is not responsible for your physique is like very, very frowned upon.

01:00:46.000 Yeah, that should be frowned upon.

01:00:49.000 It's very deceptive, you know?

01:00:51.000 I mean, it's one thing if you're actually using those products and you believe in them and this is why you're selling them, but when you're just doing it for a money grab and also you're on the sauce.

01:01:02.000 Yeah.

01:01:03.000 One thing that you've done that's really good, that's really important with your channel, is you've highlighted the Yeah.

01:01:21.000 Yeah.

01:01:25.000 Yeah.

01:01:31.000 Like, either hyper-respond sometimes in a positive way, also in the side effect aspect.

01:01:36.000 Like, usually there will be, if you push the envelope and go into, like, super physiological dosage territory, typically one thing will at least go wrong for you.

01:01:45.000 You will probably have some sort of...

01:01:48.000 I'm not saying this to be always the case because there are more responsible ways to go about it to minimize the risk of this happening or potentially avoid it altogether to some extent, but like hair loss, gynecomastia, acne, etc.

01:01:59.000 And this guy, he just had brutal acne breakout after.

01:02:03.000 What's the name of the video so we can take a look at it?

01:02:05.000 It's tough to say because I've done a couple of acne videos.

01:02:08.000 If you just type in acne, you'd see at least a few examples on my channel.

01:02:12.000 This is the guy's back.

01:02:15.000 You can see all the scarring, you can see some of the active ones, but this is pretty f***ing desolated, dude.

01:02:21.000 This is his back from the top, and this is his neck and his chest.

01:02:27.000 So pretty intense, dude, to the point where...

01:02:32.000 Yeah.

01:02:32.000 There's a few if you just typed in.

01:02:35.000 Yeah, if you just went on the cert.

01:02:37.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

01:02:38.000 Look at that guy with his chest bleeding.

01:02:40.000 The guy in the middle there. 1.00

01:02:42.000 What the fuck, man? 1.00

01:02:44.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:02:44.000 That's so crazy. 1.00

01:02:46.000 It looks like he got attacked by a shotgun.

01:02:49.000 Doesn't it?

01:02:49.000 It looks like he got shot.

01:02:51.000 Like, there's little holes all over his chest.

01:02:54.000 Yeah, no, it's hard to predict, too, because some of these guys will just end up with brutal acne without having, like, very...

01:03:03.000 Yeah, that guy got desolated.

01:03:06.000 Now, is that, like, the scarring on his back?

01:03:08.000 Yeah, so that was a unique scenario where a lot of people think his gear was just like...

01:03:14.000 Because again, it doesn't just come to your responsive gear, it's also the quality of its preparation.

01:03:18.000 Like if you have toxic carrier oils, like unhealthy solvents, you have like a response to it that is unique from another individual or...

01:03:26.000 Like, it depends on the quality of your product and is why pharmaceutical grade is, you know, always going to be preferable as well.

01:03:33.000 Oh, that makes sense.

01:03:35.000 That makes sense.

01:03:36.000 So it's not just the steroid itself.

01:03:38.000 Yeah.

01:03:39.000 You're getting cheap shit. 1.00

01:03:40.000 My God. 1.00

01:03:41.000 He doesn't even look any different.

01:03:43.000 That's what's crazy.

01:03:44.000 He gets a lot of heat because he shows his aftermath, but he used to actually bodybuild pretty intensely and he had a, you know, a respectable physique.

01:03:53.000 And is that what he looks like now?

01:03:55.000 He's off everything now. 0.97

01:03:56.000 Does he still have that fucked up back, though? 0.94

01:03:58.000 It's getting a lot better, because he took Accutane, he came off the gear, etc. 0.99

01:04:02.000 He claims his source was a highly vetted, pure source, so it's tough to say if it was actually just the gear, or if it was just shit gear plus response to the gear, or what. 0.74

01:04:12.000 So now he looks pretty natural. 0.96

01:04:14.000 Yeah.

01:04:14.000 And now, does he show any photos of his back now?

01:04:18.000 Yeah, he does. 0.98

01:04:19.000 Oh, he's still got those fucked up scars all over him. 0.51

01:04:22.000 Yeah, I kind of feel for the guy because he does put out, like, information to try and make people aware of what happened to him, but now because he's natural, people will very much take that and be like, why would you even take gear to look like this? 0.67

01:04:37.000 And it's like, that's not what he looked like when he was on gear.

01:04:40.000 Wow.

01:04:42.000 Yeah.

01:04:42.000 Like, he had aspirations to be a competitive bodybuilder and do certain things that, you know, it just wasn't in the cards for him genetically, obviously.

01:04:49.000 But, yeah, that was like a wild one.

01:04:52.000 That whole bodybuilding world is so strange because it literally is impossible to compete without steroids.

01:04:59.000 Yeah.

01:04:59.000 It's impossible.

01:05:01.000 There are...

01:05:02.000 If you're gonna be in Mr. Olympia...

01:05:04.000 Yeah.

01:05:05.000 Oh yeah, for sure. 1.00

01:05:06.000 You gotta be on shit. 1.00

01:05:07.000 Isn't that wild? 1.00

01:05:08.000 Yeah.

01:05:08.000 There's a whole, like, level...

01:05:10.000 Even things like grappling, like jujitsu, which is one of the dirtiest sports in...

01:05:18.000 I mean, it's certainly the dirtiest combat sport.

01:05:20.000 Like, openly dirty.

01:05:22.000 There's still people that are clean.

01:05:24.000 The Rotolo brothers are 19 years old.

01:05:27.000 They look completely natural. 0.56

01:05:29.000 And they're assassinating people.

01:05:31.000 Just natural.

01:05:32.000 There's a lot of natural people.

01:05:33.000 Mikey Musumeci.

01:05:34.000 Natural.

01:05:35.000 A lot of them.

01:05:36.000 Tons of them.

01:05:37.000 But not in bodybuilding.

01:05:38.000 No, and it's wild because it's like the fitness industry you would think is, you know, the epitome of health and fitness is the whole point.

01:05:46.000 Right.

01:05:47.000 So it's just so paradoxical where you have this like industry built off of portraying a healthy lifestyle, but then you're also doing like the most paradoxical unhealthy thing to your body simultaneously.

01:05:59.000 Right.

01:06:00.000 But then somehow the visual cosmetic representation of the unhealthy drug use portrays a more healthy and vibrant vitality look to people.

01:06:10.000 It's just like, oh, this jack guy must be the result of the fitness lifestyle.

01:06:13.000 Yeah, the strange thing is like when they're in peak form, they're literally on death's door. 0.96

01:06:18.000 Oh yeah, their kidneys are like about to fucking peter out and they're just like, you know, ready to fucking pass out essentially.

01:06:25.000 Yeah, for people that don't know, when you see a bodybuilder on stage and they're fully shredded and ripped and flexing, they are so dehydrated. 0.95

01:06:32.000 They're like ready to black out.

01:06:34.000 There's definitely safer ways to do it, but ultimately, going down to deathly low body fat levels, cutting water, doing all these things, there's nothing healthy about it. 0.98

01:06:44.000 Your body was never meant to get there, fucking ever. 0.94

01:06:47.000 Not only that, your body never naturally would keep that amount of mass while you have such low body fat. 0.99

01:06:53.000 No, you're fighting all mechanisms of biology until you get there.

01:06:58.000 Your body is like, what are you doing to me?

01:07:00.000 Isn't it interesting, though, that that, to people, represents the ultimate physique? 1.00

01:07:05.000 Yeah, it's fucked. 0.99

01:07:06.000 Looking like you're dying, that's the ultimate physique. 1.00

01:07:08.000 I have a friend that got so lean, he couldn't even walk around because his feet, the padding on the bottom was essentially gone because he had no fat anywhere.

01:07:18.000 So it was, like, painful for him to walk and to sit. 0.96

01:07:21.000 Like, his ass bones would be, like, sticking out. 0.89

01:07:23.000 And he couldn't even, like, sit on a chair without, like, padding and stuff. 0.99

01:07:27.000 That's crazy.

01:07:28.000 Yeah, it gets nuts.

01:07:29.000 But wouldn't you also imagine that's, like, massive inflammation in all of his joints and, like, that everything is just, like, on high alert?

01:07:36.000 True, that too.

01:07:37.000 Yeah.

01:07:37.000 It's just an agony.

01:07:38.000 Yeah, and it's like you're not even able to sleep.

01:07:41.000 God, it's so bad.

01:07:55.000 Was just a normal guy with like a regular job and he decided to enter into a bodybuilding competition.

01:08:01.000 And he got like really low body fat and, you know, did the whole deal, did the competition, and then afterwards experienced organ failure and died.

01:08:11.000 Jesus Christ.

01:08:12.000 Yeah, for nothing.

01:08:14.000 Yeah, it's like often...

01:08:18.000 Yeah.

01:08:19.000 Oftentimes, the wild thing is it's not like a sport that is highly monetizable anyways.

01:08:25.000 Right.

01:08:25.000 Like, your prize money will be nothingness unless you're, like, at the top of the sport.

01:08:31.000 And even then, it's like, in general, like, I know guys who make more money in the fitness industry as just, like, influencer bros than the most top-tier bodybuilders because the bodybuilders are so...

01:09:07.000 It depends.

01:09:08.000 Some of them die in their late 20s. 1.00

01:09:10.000 It's fucked. 1.00

01:09:11.000 Jesus. 1.00

01:09:12.000 Yeah.

01:09:13.000 Yeah.

01:09:14.000 And it is no different than anorexia.

01:09:17.000 Nah, yeah.

01:09:18.000 It's just body dysmorphia.

01:09:20.000 They get so, like, when you are around those guys, like, the worst thing anybody could ever say to one of them, like, hey man, do you lose weight?

01:09:27.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:09:27.000 And they'll be like, what the fuck? 1.00

01:09:28.000 What are you saying? 1.00

01:09:30.000 Yeah.

01:09:30.000 You think I lost weight?

01:09:31.000 Yeah.

01:09:31.000 What are you saying?

01:09:32.000 And, like, it'll fuck with their, even if they're massive. 1.00

01:09:35.000 They're gigantic. 0.99

01:09:36.000 Yeah.

01:09:36.000 And it's like, ultimately, I think the liver king thing is, like, a hyper-extreme, like, perfect example of that very...

01:09:43.000 I believe he had extreme body dysmorphia, just like most bodybuilders.

01:09:48.000 Wanted to juice it up, even though it's contrary to what he is promoting in his ancestral ways.

01:09:53.000 I just hope people wouldn't find out.

01:09:54.000 Honestly, I don't give him that much time.

01:09:57.000 Benefit of the doubt.

01:09:58.000 I think what he was doing was just pure deception.

01:10:02.000 I don't think there's body dysmorphia involved.

01:10:05.000 I think even if he wasn't promoting it, though, he would have still looked like that and done that stuff.

01:10:09.000 I bet he would have looked close.

01:10:12.000 Didn't you go back to his early, early Instagram?

01:10:14.000 He's definitely incentivized to push it harder when he's a front-facing public figure.

01:10:21.000 I'm not doubting that.

01:10:22.000 I'm just saying I do believe he would not just be on therapeutic HRT. Even if it wasn't for the message, I think he very much enjoys progressing and getting a good physique and looking the way he does.

01:10:34.000 Right, yeah, you might be right about that.

01:10:35.000 Which is what a lot of bodybuilders ultimately, when they get into this, typically it's not for like, oh, I just want to win Mr. Olympia.

01:10:43.000 For some of them, very few, potentially that is the end goal, but it often stems from an insecurity of your...

01:10:50.000 You know, whatever it is from your youth or you feel your physique is inadequate, whatever it is, and then you compensate aggressively by going like hardcore into the, you know, chemical enhancement realm, even at the detriment of your own health in order to look a certain way.

01:11:04.000 Yeah, and that's where that whole thing about him being a charlatan from your video comes into play.

01:11:09.000 Because he's selling this ancestral line of supplements where it's all...

01:11:14.000 And also, I have a friend who is very knowledgeable about this stuff, and he expressed some concern.

01:11:21.000 And I actually reached out to Paul about this, Paul Saladino.

01:11:24.000 And Paul says that it's very, very little concern.

01:11:27.000 But he was saying that when you're dealing with organ meat and, you know, you're...

01:11:33.000 Like, there's possibilities of getting prions involved, and this was where mad cow disease came to play. 0.87

01:11:40.000 You're talking about, like, cow brains and all these different things.

01:11:44.000 He was concerned.

01:11:46.000 And this is a very knowledgeable person.

01:11:48.000 I reached out to Paul.

01:11:50.000 He gave me a very knowledgeable and really well-thought-out response, and he did...

01:11:56.000 And particularly where they get their organs, everything is grass-fed, grass-finished.

01:12:02.000 It's all pasture-raised animals that are raised in the most natural of conditions.

01:12:06.000 Are you talking about like the raw organ meats they eat on camera or like literally the actual supplements they sell?

01:12:13.000 Yeah, the actual supplements. 1.00

01:12:14.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

01:12:15.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:12:16.000 Now, my friend, by the way, my friend is not involved in the organ supplement business, so maybe he doesn't understand how it's run.

01:12:23.000 But he's like, when you deal with organs, you're opening up the door for, like, you don't know if you don't absolutely know the source of these organs.

01:12:33.000 Yeah.

01:12:34.000 But no one's disputing whether or not organs are good for you.

01:12:37.000 Organs, they're so good for you.

01:12:39.000 Heart and kidney and particularly liver, so good for you.

01:12:44.000 And that's what's hopefully the outcome isn't at the detriment of that message too because it's like I hope people don't just take The Liver King debacle as everything he said was nonsense because he had a lot of good information, like a lot of stuff that was motivating,

01:13:01.000 stuff that could have been implemented to improve your quality of life, health, vitality, etc.

01:13:05.000 It's just unfortunate the way he went about doing it.

01:13:07.000 The real Liver King is Paul Saladino.

01:13:10.000 He's really eating that.

01:13:11.000 And that's...

01:13:12.000 Go to Paul Saladino's Instagram.

01:13:14.000 Like, show some pictures of his physique.

01:13:15.000 If you want to look like that guy, no hormone replacement.

01:13:18.000 Just get sunlight outside.

01:13:20.000 He's super healthy.

01:13:22.000 All he eats is organic fruits and meat and organ meat.

01:13:25.000 And that's it.

01:13:26.000 And one thing I think Paul would be on board with, but is like...

01:13:30.000 Just because it's not ancestrally consistent to be on exogenous synthetic TRT, it's not like you should live in a suboptimal state or quality of life because you're trying to be ancestrally consistent.

01:13:44.000 Right.

01:13:44.000 Look at Paul.

01:13:45.000 That's healthy.

01:13:46.000 That's real.

01:13:47.000 What that guy's built like, that is 100% natural and achievable.

01:13:51.000 And he really does.

01:13:53.000 Like, he lives in Costa Rica.

01:13:54.000 He serves every day.

01:13:56.000 He eats nothing but healthy food.

01:13:58.000 I feel like our podcast, it's the thumbnails on the bottom right there.

01:14:02.000 But I grilled him pretty hard on, like, in a respectful way, I felt, of, like, a lot of the...

01:14:08.000 Incongruencies or concerns about, you know, the diet model and, like, you know, micronutrient shortcomings.

01:14:14.000 Like, there are certain more difficult things to get in through, like, a nose-to-tail diet, like magnesium, and, like, we touched on a lot of that stuff.

01:14:21.000 Does he recommend supplementation with magnesium to compensate for that, or how does he handle that?

01:14:26.000 He thinks that the RDAs for them, like many other vitamins and minerals, are potentially off because he does a lot of Blood chemistry to see where he's at and he's like quite hyper aware of his like biofeedback and kind of knows what's going on and he's never been deficient from what he can tell so he believes that like if warranted I'm sure he would recommend it but he thinks that he gets enough from his diet but he's not opposed to supplementation when warranted.

01:14:52.000 There are certain individuals who might benefit from I don't know, extra choline.

01:14:56.000 If your diet too is, even if it's nose to tail, if you're trying to lose weight or something and you're in a little bit of a deficit or whatever, maybe you might be a little bit deficient in one micronutrient and then it's justified to take a supplement with it. 0.95

01:15:11.000 Like, I'm sure he would be on board with that, and that is the whole premise of, you know, the supplements to begin with, is if you don't want to eat like a fucking heart, like, here's heart. 0.71

01:15:19.000 Right, right, right. 0.97

01:15:21.000 And the fact that you could swallow it very easily and mix it with all your other supplements.

01:15:25.000 What is a natural source of magnesium?

01:15:29.000 Off the top of my head, as far as what I would say is like the most magnesium-dense foods, it's tough to say off the top of my head.

01:15:39.000 I kind of forget exactly.

01:15:41.000 You know the best way to get it?

01:15:43.000 Yeah, like for me, I use a magnesium bisglycinate supplement personally just because I use this thing called Cronometer, and I plug my diet in, and then it shows a full breakdown of my micronutrient proportions in terms of minerals as well as micronutrients, like all the vitamins.

01:15:56.000 And for me, it's even difficult to get my magnesium in.

01:15:59.000 So it's like, if I need to backfill that with a supplement, I feel it justified.

01:16:04.000 Do you ever do Epsom salt baths?

01:16:06.000 No, never.

01:16:06.000 That's a great way to get magnesium.

01:16:09.000 Oh, is it?

01:16:09.000 Yeah.

01:16:10.000 It's one of the things that I found from doing the isolation tank.

01:16:14.000 Because a sensory deprivation tank has a thousand pounds of magnesium in that water.

01:16:18.000 Okay.

01:16:19.000 We have just bags of Epsom salts. 0.99

01:16:22.000 It's all fucking magnesium. 0.97

01:16:23.000 So you're pouring that stuff into the water and then you float in it. 0.99

01:16:27.000 And it like is...

01:16:28.000 See, there's an article on magnesium from Epsom salts baths.

01:16:36.000 Yeah, your skin absorbs it.

01:16:38.000 I mean, I don't know if it's enough and how often you'd have to do it, but I know that a lot of people get a benefit from Epsom salts baths.

01:16:46.000 It's supposed to be very good for the muscles.

01:16:48.000 What is that, Jamie?

01:16:48.000 No evidence.

01:16:49.000 No evidence that it absorbs?

01:16:51.000 Yeah.

01:16:51.000 Interesting.

01:16:52.000 While relaxing in a hot bath may help soothe aching muscles, there's no evidence that people absorb bathwater magnesium through their skin.

01:16:58.000 Interesting.

01:16:59.000 If you look up the molecular mass of magnesium, I would be doubtful that it's low enough to actually absorb transdermally.

01:17:08.000 Oh, that's interesting.

01:17:09.000 There's this rough rule.

01:17:11.000 It's like if the molecular mass of a molecule is under 500 daltons, then it can absorb through the skin and get absorbed.

01:17:20.000 Go back to what you just said.

01:17:21.000 Look at this.

01:17:22.000 Magnesium can be absorbed through the skin for a convenient and effective way to increase your magnesium levels.

01:17:26.000 When magnesium is absorbed through the skin, this process is called transdermal absorption.

01:17:31.000 From a company that sells a topical magnesium product.

01:17:33.000 Is that what it is?

01:17:35.000 Type in magnesium molecular mass and just see what comes up.

01:17:39.000 Interesting.

01:17:40.000 It's so funny why you can read stuff like that and just think...

01:17:44.000 Yeah, molecular weight.

01:17:45.000 Okay, here we go.

01:17:46.000 Okay.

01:17:47.000 What does that mean?

01:17:48.000 So, like, from the surface, you would think that this is something that could absorb transdermally.

01:17:54.000 Because it's, what is that number?

01:17:56.000 24.305U? What does that mean?

01:17:59.000 Like, I'm more familiar with...

01:18:01.000 Atomic mass units?

01:18:02.000 Yeah, with Daltons.

01:18:04.000 I know, like, the 500 number is the threshold whereby it's supposed to be able to absorb transdermally.

01:18:10.000 Which I think is also written as grams per mole on the top of my head.

01:18:14.000 So with that level, you believe it is absorbable transdermally?

01:18:18.000 I would think.

01:18:19.000 Not my expertise, by the way.

01:18:22.000 I appreciate that.

01:18:23.000 But isn't it funny, though, that the first result was it can't be absorbed, and the second result was it can.

01:18:28.000 And then you look at the molecular weight, and you looked at it, and you're like, well, it looks like it can.

01:18:34.000 Exercise performance and recovery while relaxing in a hot bath may help soothe aching muscles.

01:18:40.000 There's no evidence that people absorb bath water magnesium through the skin.

01:18:44.000 On the other hand, oral supplementation can affect this.

01:18:47.000 But this is the same article.

01:18:48.000 No, no, no.

01:18:48.000 That's where it came from.

01:18:49.000 I was trying to find out why they were saying it.

01:18:51.000 What year is this?

01:18:52.000 That was Healthline.

01:18:54.000 2017. Interesting.

01:18:56.000 I don't know if they're right.

01:18:58.000 I bet they're a bunch of nerds that don't even lift. 1.00

01:19:00.000 Shut your mouth, nerds. 0.99

01:19:02.000 What kind of biohacks do you do nowadays besides the... 1.00

01:19:06.000 The big one that I've been doing that I actually just started doing all this week is cold plunge first thing in the morning.

01:19:14.000 I had read this thing about this guy, and then I read some subsequent articles, then I talked to Huberman about it, about there's a great benefit to cold plunge before exercise.

01:19:25.000 And so there's a negative association between cold plunge and hypertrophy.

01:19:31.000 So what that means is that if you lift weights, And you just climb right into the cold plunge right afterwards, you actually have less of a benefit from lifting weights because the cold and the anti-inflammation properties actually stop the hypertrophy.

01:19:46.000 So the recommendation was always lift weights and then wait multiple hours before you get into the cold plunge.

01:19:54.000 I really like the cold plunge after cardio.

01:19:56.000 Cardio was a big one for me.

01:19:57.000 But I also know that there's a great benefit to sauna.

01:20:01.000 After cardio, because it actually sustains your heart rate.

01:20:04.000 So it's like static aerobic exercise.

01:20:07.000 So if you do, say like if I do, I really like sprints on the Rogue Echo bike, you know, it's like a salt bike.

01:20:14.000 I love doing Tabatas on that.

01:20:17.000 So I'll do the 20 second with 10 second rest.

01:20:19.000 And then I'll go right into the sauna. 0.99

01:20:21.000 So it's like you're 185 degrees and your heart's already pounding because you just got off the bike and it's fucking brutal. 0.87

01:20:28.000 But I've noticed an increase in my cardiovascular capability because of that.

01:20:32.000 And then what I would do is I'd get into the cold plunge after I was done with all that.

01:20:36.000 So I'd do 20 minutes in the sauna.

01:20:38.000 And then at 185 degrees and then go right into 34 degrees right after that and do three minutes into the cold plunge.

01:20:45.000 Now I've been starting my morning, every morning, as soon as I decided I was going to do it the whole month. 0.94

01:20:52.000 The moment I wake up, I just get out of bed, I put my fucking flip-flops on, and I walk out to the cold plunge. 0.99

01:21:00.000 It's fucking 40 degrees outside, and I just take off my clothes, and I just climb in there for three minutes every goddamn morning. 0.99

01:21:07.000 And I set my phone right at the top of the thing, and I put the fucking stopwatch on. 0.99

01:21:12.000 I go, here we go. 0.98

01:21:13.000 And it's rough.

01:21:15.000 You know what's rough, man?

01:21:16.000 When I first wake up, I don't enjoy waking up anymore.

01:21:20.000 Because I enjoy waking up, but then there's just nervousness. 0.99

01:21:22.000 Like, shit. 0.99

01:21:24.000 So today's Friday, so I've done it five days in a row. 1.00

01:21:26.000 But it's this fucking awful feeling that you know you're going to have to do this. 0.92

01:21:32.000 Once you're done, you're probably hyper-alert and ready to roll. 0.98

01:21:35.000 Oh, yeah.

01:21:36.000 Hyper-alert, ready to roll. 0.97

01:21:38.000 You feel pretty fucking good. 0.97

01:21:40.000 But also... 0.97

01:21:42.000 I did something I didn't want to do, which I think is...

01:21:44.000 For someone like me, it, like, deals with a lot of pressure and stress and anxiety from, you know, just being in the public eye and all that stuff.

01:21:53.000 I firmly believe that you need something way worse to counter that, that you voluntarily subject yourself to.

01:22:00.000 Has it always been, like, when did that really...

01:22:03.000 Has it ramped up more in recent years, or have you kind of, like, perpetually dealt with that since being...

01:22:07.000 I don't know, like, you've been a public-facing...

01:22:11.000 It's like a trickle.

01:22:12.000 I've had a trickle of stardom.

01:22:15.000 It's like slowly ramped up and it's almost like snake venom.

01:22:19.000 I've got a little more bitten enough so that I can tolerate it.

01:22:23.000 Because I've seen people that are really young that get really famous quickly and it just wrecks them.

01:22:29.000 It wrecks them psychologically and And also they don't understand how to manage the input, right?

01:22:36.000 So they're like reading comments about them.

01:22:38.000 They're like tweeting and then responding to tweets and going back and forth with people in Instagram comments like, dude, dude, dude, dude, stop!

01:22:45.000 You still do that, eh?

01:22:47.000 Ignore them entirely. 1.00

01:22:48.000 I don't fucking read a goddamn thing. 1.00

01:22:50.000 It's the only way. 1.00

01:22:51.000 It's the only way you can stay sane.

01:22:53.000 You know, my friend's like, I can't help myself.

01:22:54.000 I'm like, you 100% can help yourself.

01:22:56.000 It's just don't look at it.

01:22:58.000 It's not an option.

01:22:59.000 I don't have that option.

01:23:00.000 There's no option to look at that.

01:23:02.000 I post stuff, I keep going.

01:23:04.000 You know, and I think that's very important because you're dealing with, you know, with my case on my Instagram, I think it's like 15 million people. 0.99

01:23:13.000 That's a lot of fucking people, man. 0.99

01:23:15.000 That's too many people. 1.00

01:23:16.000 There's no way you can...

01:23:17.000 That's manageable.

01:23:18.000 You can't interact with those people. 0.99

01:23:20.000 People can say mean shit to you and it'll hurt your feelings. 0.99

01:23:22.000 Why would you subject yourself to that? 0.99

01:23:24.000 But I think...

01:23:26.000 Even like articles written about you.

01:23:28.000 You have to have perspective.

01:23:29.000 You have to understand like who's right?

01:23:31.000 Why are they doing this?

01:23:33.000 They're doing this because you're successful.

01:23:34.000 They're distorting who you are in order to make this look better.

01:23:38.000 So you have to do something, I believe, something to offset that.

01:23:43.000 And one of the best things is really brutal exercise.

01:23:47.000 Brutal physical exercise and then sauna and cold plunge.

01:23:52.000 In my opinion, are the very best things to mitigate the effects of that.

01:23:57.000 Because they're so hard to do that the other stuff just seems easy.

01:24:01.000 It's like, so someone said something mean about you.

01:24:03.000 Like, whatever.

01:24:05.000 Have you ever had, like, a time you just had to totally disconnect from everything to mentally handle it?

01:24:11.000 No.

01:24:12.000 No?

01:24:13.000 You look pretty good about it.

01:24:14.000 Yeah, just don't read about me.

01:24:15.000 Just read about other stuff.

01:24:17.000 I mean, I feel like you're supposed to...

01:24:20.000 You know, look, there's people that live in war-torn parts of the world.

01:24:24.000 There's people that were born in dirt floors and, you know, they're dealing with rebels and they hear gunfire in the middle of the night and their children get killed or their family members get killed.

01:24:36.000 That's real problems.

01:24:38.000 Yeah. 0.96

01:24:38.000 But the problems of someone saying mean shit about you on Twitter, it only seems mean. 0.96

01:24:42.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:24:43.000 It seems awful because you're interacting with it.

01:24:45.000 If you don't interact with it, it doesn't even exist.

01:24:48.000 It's wild how much just your state of mind can influence how happy or not happy your life is and how you perceive external stimuli.

01:24:56.000 Very, very much so.

01:24:57.000 And also the kind of people that you surround yourself with.

01:25:00.000 That's crucial.

01:25:01.000 You have to have a good tribe.

01:25:03.000 You have a good tribe of fun, healthy people. 1.00

01:25:05.000 If you don't, you're fucked. 0.99

01:25:07.000 If you have backstabby people or gossipy people or mean people or resentful people or you're constantly dealing with somebody who's like... 1.00

01:25:17.000 You know, always fucking falling off the wagon. 0.96

01:25:21.000 You gotta go rescue Mike. 1.00

01:25:22.000 He's under a bridge shooting heroin. 1.00

01:25:24.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:25:25.000 You know, like, if you have enough of those people in your life, they will derail any progress you're trying to make. 1.00

01:25:30.000 Any self-improvement and self-growth.

01:25:33.000 I think, you know, obviously you should be there for your friends if something goes wrong, but you gotta recognize when this is an unstoppable pattern.

01:25:40.000 You know, and I'm not just talking about addiction.

01:25:42.000 I'm talking about everything.

01:25:43.000 Like, with some people it's gambling.

01:25:45.000 With some people it's food.

01:25:46.000 With some people it's just...

01:25:49.000 Some people just sabotage their lives.

01:25:53.000 And if you're around that person, they're always sabotaging their life and they always expect you to come in and fix it for them.

01:25:59.000 They can absorb a significant amount of your resources.

01:26:04.000 On the other hand, if you have friends that are positive and healthy and thankful and appreciative and they're fun to be around and those people can enhance your life, you enhance their life and everybody grows together and everybody has a good time together.

01:26:19.000 That's a big key.

01:26:21.000 As you've exploded, did you have a conscious shift towards that?

01:26:26.000 Yeah.

01:26:27.000 I've always been a very loyal friend, and I think that it's very important to have good friends.

01:26:37.000 I come from the martial arts world.

01:26:40.000 In the martial arts world, you need training partners.

01:26:43.000 And without training partners, you never get better.

01:26:46.000 You want elite people around you so that you have to hold yourself up to the standards of their technique and their abilities, and it's the only way you get better.

01:26:54.000 You get better by being in an environment with a bunch of killers.

01:26:57.000 Iron sharpens iron.

01:26:59.000 So, when I was a kid, from the time I was young, we always valued people who were very, very good.

01:27:07.000 You never tried to pretend they weren't good.

01:27:09.000 You always valued them.

01:27:11.000 And you always looked at their, like, oh, he's the best at this.

01:27:14.000 Like, watch how he does this.

01:27:15.000 And then you would learn and grow from imitating them or asking them.

01:27:19.000 Like, most of my martial arts techniques that I learned, no, all of them.

01:27:24.000 All of them.

01:27:24.000 I learned from other people.

01:27:25.000 All of them.

01:27:26.000 I never learned anything on my own.

01:27:28.000 Never figured out anything.

01:27:29.000 And nothing I do is original.

01:27:30.000 Everything that I learned how to do, somebody had to teach me how to do it.

01:27:33.000 So I needed someone who was like really good at something that could show me how to do it.

01:27:36.000 So when I got into comedy, one of the things that was so shocking was like, there's this like denial of other people's value.

01:27:43.000 Or like, why is he getting this?

01:27:46.000 Or why is she so successful? 0.87

01:27:48.000 My mentality was this martial arts mentality.

01:27:51.000 Like, look how good he is at marketing.

01:27:53.000 Look how good he is at delivering.

01:27:54.000 Look how he holds a pause.

01:27:56.000 Like, man, look at that stage presence.

01:27:58.000 Look how relaxed he is up there.

01:28:00.000 And it was like, I wanted to compliment them.

01:28:02.000 I'm like, dude, how you do that is amazing.

01:28:05.000 Do you consciously do that?

01:28:07.000 How do you write?

01:28:08.000 I wanted to treat it like I'm supportive.

01:28:12.000 And in the weird world of television and comedy, It was a scarcity and a famine mentality because there was only so many jobs, right? 0.96

01:28:24.000 So if you wanted to be on a sitcom, if you and I say we're in the audition room and we're both playing Tom the fucking security guy on a sitcom, if I knew that you're my friend and you're reading, I might fucking derail you. 1.00

01:28:37.000 I might say, Lou, you look like shit, Derek. 1.00

01:28:39.000 What are you, fucking losing weight? 1.00

01:28:41.000 You'd say some gross things to each other. 1.00

01:28:43.000 Or you'd be, that person doesn't represent a colleague and a friend. 0.99

01:28:47.000 That person represents the fucking barrier that's going to keep you from success. 1.00

01:28:51.000 You want to be in that house in the Hollywood Hills, driving a fucking Corvette. 1.00

01:28:55.000 Come on, baby. 1.00

01:28:56.000 You know, you've got to succeed.

01:28:58.000 And this... 0.95

01:29:00.000 That mentality fucked with comedians for a long time. 0.98

01:29:03.000 Then the internet came along. 0.98

01:29:05.000 And what the internet showed everybody is like, no, no, no.

01:29:09.000 These people are assets.

01:29:12.000 You have them on your podcast, your podcast is better.

01:29:15.000 And then you tell people about their podcast, and their podcast is good, so now people listen to you.

01:29:20.000 If you say, hey, go see Tom Segura. 0.91

01:29:23.000 He's fucking hilarious. 0.96

01:29:24.000 People go see him. 0.99

01:29:25.000 You're honest.

01:29:25.000 You tell the truth.

01:29:27.000 He's really good.

01:29:28.000 And so then it's good for everybody.

01:29:30.000 So he blows up, you blow up, and then we all help each other together.

01:29:33.000 So one of the great things about comedy now is that we have essentially like an organic network.

01:29:40.000 Instead of a network that we're all under contract and, you know, everyone has to give X percentage to this and that to that.

01:29:48.000 No, no, no executives.

01:29:49.000 No, no.

01:29:49.000 It's an organic network of people who are just friends, who support each other.

01:29:54.000 And we just get together and have a good time.

01:29:56.000 Is there any path, like, as you got to comedy, like, obviously you've done a bunch of different trajectories, like you did the reality show thing, you're an actor, you did, like, a bunch of different stuff.

01:30:05.000 Is there any path that you, in hindsight, wish you leaned into harder or, like, fleshed out more?

01:30:10.000 No.

01:30:10.000 No, definitely not.

01:30:11.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:30:13.000 No, I think it was good to do Fear Factor just because it made me realize I don't ever want to do that again.

01:30:20.000 It was just for money.

01:30:21.000 Because Fear Factor was something that was a great job.

01:30:23.000 I'm very happy that I got it.

01:30:25.000 I worked with some great people.

01:30:26.000 It was a lot of fun.

01:30:28.000 Matter of fact, I was just hanging out with one of the guys that I did it with the other day.

01:30:34.000 That was only for money.

01:30:35.000 I only did it for money.

01:30:37.000 Podcasts are fun.

01:30:38.000 Stand-up comedy is fun.

01:30:40.000 That's the most fun.

01:30:41.000 Stand-up comedy is the most fun.

01:30:43.000 UFC commentary is fun.

01:30:45.000 It's fun.

01:30:46.000 It's more fun to watch.

01:30:48.000 More fun to just watch fights.

01:30:50.000 But commenting on fights, you get to watch from right there.

01:30:54.000 The fence is right here in front of you. 0.95

01:30:56.000 It's pretty fucking amazing. 0.93

01:30:57.000 But no, none of those things... 0.94

01:30:59.000 I'm definitely glad I got the acting out of my system.

01:31:02.000 I don't like doing that.

01:31:03.000 I don't like...

01:31:04.000 That's the least fun.

01:31:05.000 Yeah.

01:31:06.000 I think some of...

01:31:06.000 Obviously, I'm just speaking objectively from what I see, but some of the most hyper-successful individuals like yourself, it's being hyper-talented, but then also fortuitous timing in a lot of different scenarios, potentially, and there is some luck involved.

01:31:20.000 Yeah.

01:31:20.000 I'm wondering if you were to be...

01:31:23.000 There's so much pressure on social media now for young guys, especially at younger and younger ages, to be this crazy successful entrepreneurial individual, even when they're fucking teenagers or something.

01:31:35.000 If you were to go back and be a teenager or a young 20s guy now, and you're starting from scratch, How would you approach it? 0.86

01:31:43.000 It's so much different.

01:31:44.000 It's so hard to say.

01:31:45.000 Because when you're under the public eye of social media, and even if you just have a small account with like 500 followers, you still are under the public eye. 0.99

01:31:54.000 Because something you say can go viral, and then either you blow up or you're fucked. 0.99

01:31:59.000 Either one of those scenarios is possible. 0.99

01:32:03.000 Managing your life today is so much more problematic.

01:32:08.000 It's so much more difficult. 1.00

01:32:10.000 I couldn't imagine being a teenager in high school with a fucking TikTok account. 1.00

01:32:15.000 Where you could just say wild shit. 0.99

01:32:17.000 How about that guy who was a football player who got denied a scholarship because he was singing along to the lyrics in a rap video And he said the N-word. 0.99

01:32:27.000 So there's a video of him singing along to a song he likes.

01:32:31.000 And they kicked him out of the college. 0.99

01:32:34.000 That's fucking wild. 0.99

01:32:35.000 When was that? 0.99

01:32:35.000 Recent? 0.99

01:32:36.000 Very recent.

01:32:36.000 Yeah.

01:32:37.000 And he was like top draft pick.

01:32:39.000 Like an elite quarterback. 1.00

01:32:41.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:32:42.000 Is somebody else going to pick him up? 1.00

01:32:44.000 I hope so.

01:32:45.000 I hope so.

01:32:46.000 That's wild.

01:32:46.000 Imagine.

01:32:47.000 That could change the trajectory of his entire life.

01:32:50.000 Yeah.

01:32:51.000 Because he was 15 and he thought he was just rapping along to a video.

01:32:56.000 They're saying it.

01:32:57.000 Why can't I say it?

01:32:58.000 Your frontal lobe's not even formed at 15. And to hold that kid from that moment for the rest of his life.

01:33:07.000 And that's just one example. 0.99

01:33:08.000 There's so many examples of people ruining their fucking life on social media because they don't know any better. 1.00

01:33:14.000 Because they're fucking 14 or whatever. 1.00

01:33:17.000 I wouldn't want that. 1.00

01:33:20.000 I can't imagine that.

01:33:22.000 I couldn't imagine growing up with that kind of connection to people.

01:33:27.000 And I think...

01:33:28.000 In some ways, it discourages people taking chances.

01:33:32.000 It discourages people really finding themselves and how to express themselves.

01:33:36.000 If every stand-up set you ever did from the beginning of your first open mic was online and available to people, that's horrendous.

01:33:46.000 Yeah.

01:33:46.000 Yeah, I guess all, like, the crash and burns and all, like, the trial and error.

01:33:51.000 Yeah, that would... 1.00

01:33:52.000 Yeah, and then if you read those comments, like, you fucking suck, quit, quit now. 1.00

01:33:56.000 Like, that would get in your head, you know? 1.00

01:33:58.000 Oh, for sure.

01:33:58.000 You can't move past it.

01:34:00.000 Most of my bombings, like, all my bombings, really, were just in these weird fucking nights and weird places, and you get over it, and then you move on, and you just go, ugh. 0.99

01:34:11.000 That one sucked. 0.98

01:34:12.000 That one I shouldn't have got drunk. 0.97

01:34:14.000 Or that one I was too tired.

01:34:16.000 Or that one I was too green.

01:34:17.000 Or that one I couldn't follow that guy.

01:34:19.000 These are all lessons that you learn.

01:34:21.000 But you don't want to dwell on them constantly.

01:34:24.000 Because if you do, you will put yourself back in the mindset of that person who you were when you were failing.

01:34:31.000 Which I think is very detrimental to growth.

01:34:34.000 You've got to be aware of shortcomings and failures.

01:34:38.000 But you can't dwell.

01:34:39.000 If you dwell on them, then you're maintaining this mindset of a person who just failed years after that failure.

01:34:45.000 That was a long time ago.

01:34:47.000 You've got to move on.

01:34:48.000 And if you don't move on, you're going to get stuck.

01:34:51.000 And some people, look, there's some people that get stuck in high school forever.

01:34:56.000 Forever.

01:34:57.000 We know those stories.

01:34:58.000 They had failures in high school.

01:35:00.000 Maybe they got beat up in high school. 1.00

01:35:02.000 Maybe they were an asshole, and they got their comeuppance in front of the whole school, and they never recovered. 1.00

01:35:08.000 They never recovered. 1.00

01:35:10.000 Maybe they were a dick, and they were talking shit to some guy, and he just beat the shit out of them in front of everybody. 1.00

01:35:15.000 And they're like, no! 1.00

01:35:16.000 And every day that guy wakes up, fuck! 1.00

01:35:20.000 Years later and thinks about this failure. 1.00

01:35:22.000 No, it's wild how, like, the earlier stuff happens, it seems to, like, very much affect the trajectory of your life.

01:35:27.000 Yes.

01:35:27.000 Like, very significantly.

01:35:29.000 Very significantly.

01:35:30.000 High school's a big one, man, because it's like you're changing from a kid to an adult.

01:35:35.000 Like, in that process, so many mistakes are made. 0.93

01:35:40.000 See, the wild thing is how, even at your level of success, you trying to wrap your head around what you would do as, like, a young guy, you can't even fucking fathom it.

01:35:48.000 So, like, imagine how overwhelmed some clueless 18-year-old kid is. 0.85

01:35:52.000 I can't imagine.

01:35:53.000 It's terrible for them.

01:35:54.000 I think it's really terrible.

01:35:56.000 And it's so available.

01:35:58.000 And also, it's addictive.

01:36:00.000 It's not like something that's available that you don't really need to go to all the time. 0.99

01:36:05.000 Everyone carries a goddamn phone with them everywhere they go. 0.96

01:36:08.000 So you're always connected to this. 1.00

01:36:10.000 And kids are ruthless how they talk shit about each other on the internet. 0.99

01:36:14.000 Oh my god, they're so mean. 0.99

01:36:16.000 Yeah, I wouldn't want to live like that.

01:36:19.000 But who knows? 0.76

01:36:20.000 Maybe it's one of those things where The way I've described it in the past is like I grew up in the Northeast and I wouldn't trade I wouldn't trade that for the world Because there's something about growing up in a place where it fucking snows Where it's cold as shit and the winter comes and you're fucked and when your car breaks down You got to walk five miles and you know negative ten degrees That builds a resistance or a resilience rather in a person that is

01:36:51.000 I don't think it's replaceable.

01:36:53.000 I don't think you can get that.

01:36:54.000 I mean you certainly could develop discipline and you could certainly develop resilience if you live somewhere else, especially if you have a hard childhood.

01:37:02.000 Those people develop a lot of resistance and a lot of resilience.

01:37:05.000 But there's something about Growing up in harsh climates that develops a specific type of character character a person that values hard work and you get shit done and it's like a very common to People that live in like the Northeast in Boston.

01:37:22.000 I wonder if like kids growing up today are it's like a technological winter They are developing a resilience, like a psychological resilience, if they survive it. 0.97

01:37:35.000 They don't fucking commit suicide, which a lot of kids do today. 0.71

01:37:38.000 Suicide and self-harm is up quite a bit. 0.99

01:37:41.000 Jonathan Haidt has a book about it.

01:37:43.000 It's called The Coddling of the American Mind.

01:37:45.000 And in it, that's one of the things they discuss, is that, particularly with girls, suicide and self-harm ramps up considerably around the time of social media's invention, around the time of the iPhone.

01:37:59.000 So maybe these kids today that are growing up are growing up with like the wintertime equivalent of resilience, but through the internet, you know?

01:38:11.000 Yeah, some of these, like, I've been more, as I've become more successful, I've been exposed to more successful people, those who are self-made, but also those who aren't and have been, like, trust fund babies or whatever.

01:38:22.000 And there's definitely a huge differentiation between the mindset or the mentality of those who have gone through adversity or hard times versus those who have been, like, silver platter to them, essentially.

01:38:32.000 Yeah.

01:38:33.000 Yeah. 0.53

01:38:33.000 And it definitely does fuck them up, I think. 0.53

01:38:35.000 Like, even the ones who were successful but didn't have to go through the, you know, the hard upbringing or make it through challenges that otherwise, you know, have been, they've just, like, coasted through essentially because they've never been imposed, it's never been imposed on their lives at all.

01:38:49.000 There's no comparison.

01:38:50.000 That description of a self-made man.

01:38:53.000 Everybody wants to be a self-made man.

01:38:55.000 There's no real self-made man.

01:38:57.000 Everybody has help from everybody.

01:38:59.000 But the reality is there's a giant difference between growing up poor and then eventually becoming rich versus growing up super wealthy and then being given money and working hard to sustain that money.

01:39:12.000 It's just not the same.

01:39:14.000 You're like concrete that's like missing an ingredient.

01:39:16.000 Yeah.

01:39:17.000 And you don't really know if you could have done it on your own.

01:39:19.000 And I'm sure you can attest to the fact that like there definitely is like a neurological component to like it's called the hedonic treadmill and it's like your new set point becomes just what your baseline expectation is of Yeah.

01:39:42.000 Yeah.

01:39:57.000 Yeah.

01:40:00.000 Yeah.

01:40:02.000 I don't know, like, adapting to that and being able to go from, like, zero to my hero, but just, like, the step-by-step is, like, what gives you the reward, gives you the mental progress and achievement that I think makes, like, a cumulatively just, like, a well-rounded human as opposed to the guys who are just,

01:40:19.000 like, here you go, like, you're already up here from get-go sort of thing.

01:40:23.000 Yeah, and you also can remember when you were poor, which is very valuable.

01:40:28.000 Yeah, it makes you way more grateful.

01:40:29.000 Way more grateful.

01:40:31.000 I remember all my terrible jobs.

01:40:32.000 I really do.

01:40:34.000 What was the worst one?

01:40:36.000 I had a job with my friend Jimmy Lawless for like only a couple of weeks.

01:40:42.000 Maybe it was a little longer than that.

01:40:44.000 But I was working on a construction crew in the summer building a wheelchair ramp at a Knights of Columbus Hall in Massachusetts.

01:40:52.000 And I think I was probably like 16, 17 at the time.

01:40:57.000 Somewhere around that range.

01:40:58.000 And I was carrying cement and pressure-treated lumber.

01:41:03.000 All day long.

01:41:05.000 That's all I did.

01:41:06.000 All day long.

01:41:06.000 I carried cement bags and pressure-treated lumber because I was a laborer.

01:41:11.000 I wasn't skilled.

01:41:12.000 So all day long, you're carrying lumber and you get these splinters in your hand and From this pressure-treated lumber. 0.99

01:41:21.000 So pressure-treated lumber is lumber that's been soaked in some awful fucking chemical. 0.98

01:41:26.000 And then you're carrying that. 1.00

01:41:28.000 It's heavy as fuck. 0.99

01:41:29.000 And then you're carrying cement bags. 0.99

01:41:31.000 And I remember going to the gym at night after a work day.

01:41:35.000 So you get off work at 3.30 or whatever it is.

01:41:38.000 And then I go to the gym and I'd be like, this is like, ugh.

01:41:41.000 I had nothing.

01:41:43.000 I remember hitting the bag and just be like, oh my god.

01:41:46.000 I was trying to do fighting while after that, not just weight training. 0.99

01:41:49.000 That would be fucking brutal. 0.98

01:41:50.000 I was competing. 0.99

01:41:52.000 Jesus.

01:41:52.000 Yeah, I was still competing.

01:41:54.000 In hindsight, isn't it almost more impressive what you think about what you did when you were grinding versus...

01:41:59.000 Now sometimes. 0.53

01:42:00.000 Sometimes I think back to how I balanced university, my shitty jobs, going on dates, doing all this stuff. 0.96

01:42:06.000 I was like, how the fuck did I also work out very consistently, get all my meals and be regimented? 1.00

01:42:11.000 And then you think back to now when you ever give yourself an excuse for something, you're like, you pathetic piece of shit. 1.00

01:42:16.000 Remember what you used to do? 1.00

01:42:18.000 You never complained back then.

01:42:19.000 I know, but there's something about hunger.

01:42:22.000 There's something about the grind of want.

01:42:26.000 You know, God, I want it to work out.

01:42:28.000 I want to be great.

01:42:29.000 I want to this.

01:42:30.000 I want to that.

01:42:31.000 And that grind of wanting something, it's like it fuels you in a way that nothing else is capable of fueling you.

01:42:39.000 Yeah.

01:42:40.000 That's what makes me wonder if Conor could ever make like a successful comeback as I feel like that like level.

01:42:46.000 He could.

01:42:46.000 Yeah.

01:42:47.000 No, he could.

01:42:47.000 He certainly could.

01:42:48.000 The reason why Floyd Mayweather was still elite, even at the top of his game, I don't think you ever forget where you came from.

01:42:55.000 Okay.

01:42:55.000 Some people do.

01:42:57.000 Some people definitely get soft.

01:42:58.000 You know, that was the Marvin Hagler quote.

01:43:00.000 He would say how difficult it is to run in the cold when you're waking up in silk sheets.

01:43:05.000 Yeah.

01:43:06.000 Yeah.

01:43:07.000 But, you know, Hagler took steps to mitigate that.

01:43:10.000 Hagler used to train out of Provincetown.

01:43:13.000 Which was on the Cape. 0.99

01:43:14.000 So he would go out to the Cape Cod in the middle of the winter and run with combat boots in the fucking sand. 0.99

01:43:20.000 Like he separated from his family. 1.00

01:43:22.000 He would go into like this fucking Spartan training camp. 1.00

01:43:26.000 That was his way of staying hard. 0.99

01:43:28.000 You know, I think Connor could still do it.

01:43:32.000 The real question for me with Connor is what's going on with his leg.

01:43:35.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:43:36.000 Was he like a titanium fucking plate in it now? 0.99

01:43:39.000 Yeah, his leg snapped in half. 0.98

01:43:41.000 And no one, and I mean no one, in combat sports has had their leg snap in half and come back and been the same or better.

01:43:50.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:43:51.000 Anderson Silva's leg was fucked. 0.99

01:43:53.000 Corey Hill was the first guy in the UFC that I saw get his leg snapped. 0.99

01:43:56.000 And he never really was the same again.

01:43:58.000 I don't even know if he fought again.

01:44:00.000 And then Corey died young, unfortunately.

01:44:02.000 And then...

01:44:03.000 The next one was Anderson, and the next one, Chris Weidman.

01:44:07.000 Anderson did fight again, but he was never the same again.

01:44:11.000 And Chris Weidman has yet to fight.

01:44:13.000 I don't know if, has Chris Weidman spoke publicly about his leg and the recovery?

01:44:18.000 See if that's the case, because Connor actually brought it up when someone was asking him about USADA. Yeah, he was like...

01:44:26.000 It almost seemed like he was justifying drug use at some point.

01:44:30.000 It was kind of wild.

01:44:30.000 It seemed exactly like that.

01:44:31.000 He was like, you don't know what this is like.

01:44:35.000 I took myself out of the pool.

01:44:36.000 Everything's on board.

01:44:38.000 And it was very suggestive of this was within the rules and I had to do it. 1.00

01:44:43.000 And fuck you if you don't agree with my decision sort of thing. 0.99

01:44:46.000 Not only that, he's taking his shirt off and posing constantly. 1.00

01:44:50.000 And he looks like his piss would melt that USADA cup. 0.88

01:44:54.000 It would just burn a hole right through the bottom that you saw in a cup. 0.97

01:44:58.000 Yeah, if there's ever been speculation.

01:45:00.000 What's this, Wonder Boy?

01:45:01.000 Yeah, eight months ago on Wonder Boy's channel, there's a video of him training and kicking, I guess.

01:45:05.000 Oh, great.

01:45:08.000 I wonder how it's doing, though.

01:45:10.000 So here he's training, so maybe he's getting ready to work out again, or maybe getting ready to fight again, preparing for Runderboy.

01:45:18.000 But the thing is, it's like there's a big difference between training and really being confident enough in the shin to test it, like getting kicked.

01:45:31.000 So let's see.

01:45:32.000 See, he's just touching.

01:45:34.000 They're touching right here.

01:45:35.000 This is the kind of sparring that he's doing here.

01:45:38.000 It's called technical sparring.

01:45:40.000 You're just kind of tapping each other.

01:45:42.000 You're almost like playing tag.

01:45:44.000 Even if your leg was to have the structural integrity to sustain an actual fight, what is the implications of walking around with a plate in it?

01:45:53.000 Is that unfair?

01:45:55.000 Well, that's interesting because I had David...

01:45:57.000 Look at that leg. 0.99

01:45:58.000 Jesus Christ.

01:45:59.000 I'm coming back, baby.

01:46:00.000 Watch Chris Weidman test out his leg after brutal injury. 0.95

01:46:04.000 I had David Goggins on the podcast yesterday, and Goggins, he's such a fucking freak of discipline, and his ability to tolerate pain is like no one I've ever talked to.

01:46:20.000 He had bone on bone on his knees to the point where it distorted the shape of his bone, where his bones were like distorting to deal with the fact that there was no meniscus there and it was like growing off in a weird way. 0.86

01:46:36.000 So the way they mitigated that is they had to cut a wedge out of his shin and then they lowered that bone down to make it parallel and flat with the tibia.

01:46:50.000 It's crazy.

01:46:51.000 And you see these screws that are in there, and he's got this plate and these screws, and he said every step he takes, he feels that plate. 0.99

01:46:59.000 Damn. 0.99

01:47:00.000 Every step. 1.00

01:47:00.000 He said, it sucks. 1.00

01:47:02.000 Everywhere I go, I feel that plate. 0.94

01:47:04.000 So it's just the new normal to him is every time he steps, he feels a plate, and that's his leg. 1.00

01:47:11.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:47:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:47:13.000 And he says it presses against his hamstring as well.

01:47:16.000 So it's like constant discomfort.

01:47:19.000 And look at that one screw that pops out the side. 1.00

01:47:21.000 Like, trim that, bitch. 1.00

01:47:22.000 Why are you letting that thing stick all the way out? 1.00

01:47:24.000 Weird, the other one too, right?

01:47:25.000 Two of them.

01:47:26.000 But, like, see how the wedge is missing?

01:47:28.000 Like, that little wedge slice right there, his knee would go up.

01:47:34.000 On the side, so he was almost like bow-legged. 1.00

01:47:37.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:47:38.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:47:38.000 Dude, but look at this. 1.00

01:47:39.000 There's no spacing in the fucking knees, man. 1.00

01:47:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:47:43.000 The guy runs 240 mile races with those knees.

01:47:47.000 See, the wild thing to me about him, too, and it's like perhaps he's fully elucidated this in his book or in a podcast, and I just haven't seen it.

01:47:57.000 But, like, he used to be out of shape, and then all of a sudden, like, switch flips, and he's just the most hyper-disciplined individual of all time, essentially.

01:48:06.000 Like, what was the catalyst for that, like, mindset shift?

01:48:09.000 Like, has he discussed that in detail?

01:48:12.000 Yeah, well, he slowly figured it out.

01:48:16.000 But, like, the first steps that he made, I mean, the first time he ever ran, look at how fat he was at one point in time. 0.91

01:48:22.000 The first time that he ever ran, he said he ran, like, around the block, and he fucking couldn't go any further. 0.92

01:48:27.000 It was exhausting. 0.96

01:48:28.000 He was eating terrible food and drinking milkshakes every day, and it was just...

01:48:32.000 Working as an exterminator.

01:48:34.000 He's got two books.

01:48:35.000 One of them is called Can't Hurt Me.

01:48:37.000 That's the first one.

01:48:38.000 And this is the new one.

01:48:40.000 It's called Never Finished.

01:48:41.000 And this comes out on December 6th.

01:48:43.000 And this one is even more rough.

01:48:45.000 It's even more rough than the first book. 0.99

01:48:47.000 It's fucking rough, man. 0.99

01:48:49.000 His life was rough. 0.99

01:48:51.000 And those demons like propel him every day and now He's in this place where he's known as like literally the hardest motherfucker that's ever lived like that's that's who he is He's this guy that will run like you know 20 fucking ultra marathons in a month just to show people that it's possible and that Is, 0.97

01:49:13.000 like, a burden, too. 0.96

01:49:14.000 Because now you're constantly attached to this thing where you have to push it to the end, and then you see his body is falling apart.

01:49:22.000 It's crazy how some of the most successful people seem to have, like, chips on their shoulder that they use to, like, propel them mentally.

01:49:30.000 And it's like, I don't know if that's...

01:49:31.000 Like, I've done that, too, personally.

01:49:33.000 Like, try to... 0.99

01:49:34.000 Even in the gym, sometimes you think of fucked up shit to get through that last, like, rep. 1.00

01:49:37.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:49:38.000 And it's like, is that...

01:49:39.000 I don't know.

01:49:39.000 Is that the healthy thing to do?

01:49:41.000 Like, I don't even know.

01:49:42.000 I don't know what's the healthy thing to do.

01:49:44.000 I mean, I would think...

01:49:45.000 I would also...

01:49:45.000 Oftentimes, when I'm doing sprints on the bike and I'm really tired, I think about getting tapped out.

01:49:51.000 Because I have a bunch of memories in my head of different guys who caught me in triangles, and this guy caught me in an arm bar.

01:49:57.000 And sometimes you get caught just because you're too tired.

01:49:59.000 Like, you see it coming, and you just can't step over the leg, you can't pull your arm out, and then you wind up getting tapped. 1.00

01:50:05.000 You're like, fuck! 0.99

01:50:07.000 And you know you got tapped because you were too tired. 1.00

01:50:09.000 You know what the defense was, but you weren't able to implement it because you were too exhausted.

01:50:14.000 So I think of those moments a lot of times when I'm training.

01:50:17.000 When I'm just in the middle of like a sprint, I want to like...

01:50:22.000 I don't know if that's good or bad.

01:50:23.000 I mean, I think it's positive in that it's making me do that extra work.

01:50:29.000 And that extra work is ultimately beneficial.

01:50:32.000 So I use it as fuel.

01:50:33.000 And for David, one of the things we got into when we talked about on a podcast is going to come out the day the book is released.

01:50:40.000 One of the things that we talked about is that he literally reads out things his haters say in comments.

01:50:48.000 And records it.

01:50:49.000 Oh, so he reads the comments.

01:50:51.000 And then listens to it while he runs.

01:50:53.000 Oh my god. 1.00

01:50:54.000 But he's a psycho. 1.00

01:50:55.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:50:56.000 I would not recommend that.

01:50:57.000 So it's the opposite to your approach.

01:50:59.000 Yeah.

01:51:00.000 But he lives a different life.

01:51:02.000 Like, it's a very performance-based life.

01:51:05.000 It's not like an interactive life.

01:51:07.000 And it's not like he's—he hasn't done a podcast since he did mine.

01:51:11.000 Oh, wow.

01:51:11.000 Like, his last podcast I did—he was, like, the last podcast I did was, like, four years ago.

01:51:16.000 Fuck these podcasts! 1.00

01:51:17.000 He's like, but I like you! 1.00

01:51:18.000 I'll do yours!

01:51:20.000 He's different.

01:51:21.000 David exists in this world where he is out there pushing himself beyond the limitations of the average human being, way beyond, in terms of his tolerance for pain.

01:51:34.000 And he believes he's extracting lessons from that.

01:51:37.000 Like, he likes the suffering because he learns about himself in that suffering.

01:51:43.000 And he continues to grow through that suffering.

01:51:46.000 Like, that's what he does, like, all day long, man.

01:51:48.000 So he doesn't get stressed about the comments or anything. 0.98

01:51:50.000 He just goes and, like, procures the best shitty ones. 0.96

01:51:53.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:51:54.000 And then uses that to be like, fuck these people. 1.00

01:51:57.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:51:57.000 Yeah, taking souls. 1.00

01:51:59.000 That's what he says.

01:52:00.000 Taking souls. 1.00

01:52:01.000 Those motherfuckers see you out there taking a soul. 1.00

01:52:04.000 It's like, why are you out here running? 1.00

01:52:05.000 Because you're not, motherfucker! 1.00

01:52:06.000 And he keeps running. 1.00

01:52:07.000 He's got a chip on his shoulder as big as the fucking Empire State Building. 0.99

01:52:12.000 But that's... 0.99

01:52:13.000 Did you leave the podcast fired up? 0.99

01:52:16.000 Damn it, I left that book fired up. 1.00

01:52:18.000 You read that book, you want to run through a fucking wall. 1.00

01:52:19.000 I texted him. 1.00

01:52:20.000 I said, dude, I'm ready to run through a fucking wall reading this book. 0.97

01:52:23.000 He is like one of the best sources of motivational strength I've ever encountered because it's all real. 0.99

01:52:30.000 And most people didn't even know how fucked up his knees were. 0.78

01:52:33.000 Until he let us show those pictures, most people didn't even know what he was going through. 0.98

01:52:38.000 That kind of pain is insane.

01:52:41.000 His doctor said to him, I can't believe you can walk on these knees.

01:52:46.000 Forget about run thousands of miles.

01:52:50.000 Like, that's the amount of fluid they pulled out of his knee, and the black fluid on the left, what was he saying, is de-oxygenated?

01:52:57.000 Yeah, or un-oxygenated, I don't know the, yeah. 0.93

01:52:59.000 It's just fucking clots and clumps, and that was all from his knee, man. 0.96

01:53:04.000 He's never gone to the realm of what could attenuate, like, as far as I know, he's not on TRT or done anything to, it's like, why though? 0.99

01:53:14.000 Like, I'm just, like, he imposes so much stress on his body that it's wild that he has not explored it or anything.

01:53:20.000 Yeah, I wonder if he would now.

01:53:22.000 I mean, I believe he's 45 now.

01:53:24.000 Like, even just recovery agents, not even the TRT stuff, like peptides, stem cells, whatever.

01:53:30.000 Right.

01:53:30.000 I don't know.

01:53:31.000 Well, it certainly could help, and maybe it would have saved his knees.

01:53:35.000 But maybe not. 1.00

01:53:36.000 You know, the volume, the sheer volume of pounding and all the shit he does. 0.99

01:53:43.000 You know he fights wildfires? 0.99

01:53:46.000 No.

01:53:47.000 Yeah.

01:53:48.000 For fun.

01:53:49.000 I'm not kidding.

01:53:51.000 For months at a time.

01:53:53.000 He's a wildfire.

01:53:55.000 He's a smoke jumper.

01:53:56.000 So they take him out.

01:53:58.000 That's him. 0.99

01:53:59.000 Jumping out of a fucking, I guess, airplane and parachutes down into these woodland areas where there's firefighters. 0.99

01:54:09.000 Yeah, man. 0.99

01:54:10.000 He sent me a picture. 0.99

01:54:11.000 He goes, this one's gonna be fucked up. 0.99

01:54:13.000 He sent me a picture of a fucking polar bear that someone had spotted near one of these places where they're getting dropped off. 0.99

01:54:22.000 Because when you're in northern Canada, some of the areas where people get dropped off... 0.99

01:54:27.000 Yeah, that's him.

01:54:29.000 Yeah, we have brutal forest fires in, like, northern Canada.

01:54:31.000 Yeah, brutal.

01:54:33.000 Let me send you these pictures that he sent me because they're so crazy.

01:54:36.000 And one of them, he was parachuting into a place where there was a grizzly bear.

01:54:42.000 And he's like, they found a grizzly bear!

01:54:43.000 I'm like, no!

01:54:45.000 Don't go, man!

01:54:46.000 What are you doing?

01:54:48.000 So...

01:54:49.000 Yeah, there's some of the fires.

01:54:51.000 So here's one he sent me that's a polar bear. 0.56

01:54:54.000 You're going to take a piss. 0.91

01:54:55.000 Yeah, go ahead.

01:54:55.000 Go ahead.

01:54:56.000 Take a piss.

01:55:00.000 We'll be right back, ladies and gentlemen.

01:55:02.000 Images of polar bears.

01:55:04.000 Obviously his priority would be injury-proofing himself, getting back in there.

01:55:09.000 He very much wants to get back and have a run, for sure.

01:55:13.000 So welcome back from peeing.

01:55:15.000 So we were just talking about Conor McGregor's injury.

01:55:18.000 The weird thing is that there's a loophole in USADA that allows you to get out of the testing pole Yeah.

01:55:25.000 Get out of the testing pool, you could just juice up.

01:55:27.000 Yeah, most of the guys weren't even aware, apparently.

01:55:29.000 Like, I think it was Anthony Smith who does the show with Biz Bang. 0.96

01:55:33.000 Yeah, he was like, I didn't even know you could fucking do that. 0.93

01:55:35.000 Seems weird. 0.96

01:55:36.000 And you just need six months.

01:55:39.000 Like, if someone had an injury, though, that's a very wise way to approach it, right?

01:55:43.000 Like, what potentially would be good things that you would take if you had a broken bone and you wanted it to heal quicker?

01:55:50.000 Yeah.

01:55:50.000 HGH, peptides, androgens are very restorative.

01:55:56.000 They'll reinforce bone mineral density.

01:55:59.000 It's not just muscle tissue for anabolics, too.

01:56:02.000 There's certain stuff that's going to stay in his system for a long time he could never use, but on the bioidentical side, anything that is pro bone integrity, infrastructure enforcing, he is going to be...

01:56:17.000 I would be highly incentivized if I was him and I knew I wasn't being tested.

01:56:20.000 So I'd be pushing that vector hard.

01:56:23.000 Yeah, if you took time off, say if it was you and you were a UFC fighter and you broke your leg and you found out about this, you saw a loophole.

01:56:32.000 So you would take peptides, you would take growth.

01:56:35.000 What are the things you were saying that you wouldn't take because they would stay in your system for too long?

01:56:39.000 Oh, like any synthetic androgen, like you would not be touching in general.

01:56:44.000 Like anything that could be detected for, like, I don't know, DECA. Like anything of that nature, I'm sure, is not even on his radar.

01:56:50.000 It would be more like bioidentical compounds.

01:56:52.000 How long does that stuff stay in your system?

01:56:55.000 Bioidenticals?

01:56:56.000 Like a DECA? Oh, a DECA can be like a year you get detection.

01:56:59.000 Oh, really?

01:56:59.000 Yeah.

01:57:00.000 Wow. 1.00

01:57:00.000 It's fucking nuts. 1.00

01:57:01.000 So, him taking testosterone, but wouldn't that fuck with his endogenous production of testosterone then when he gets off of it? 1.00

01:57:08.000 Yeah, he could, but I'm saying the most logical thing would be the growth factor side of things.

01:57:14.000 So that would be GH and then accompanying peptides like the BPCs, the TB500. There's other peptides that are not even tested for that I'm sure he's probably already using.

01:57:24.000 But, yeah, like, I imagine his main priority is injury-proofing himself more so than getting, like, juicy as fuck. 0.98

01:57:31.000 Right. 0.99

01:57:32.000 Yeah.

01:57:32.000 Yeah, well, also just recovering.

01:57:35.000 Yeah.

01:57:36.000 You know, when your bones get snapped and it's a weight-bearing bone, he says, I crushed a metatarsal bone in my foot three weeks before the Khabib fight and still made the walk. 0.75

01:57:46.000 All injuries are not the same.

01:57:48.000 You will see it all on Netflix.

01:57:50.000 Oh, so he's doing a Netflix documentary?

01:57:53.000 When a serious injury with a high percentage of never recovering occurs, it is just simply not the same.

01:58:00.000 Yeah, well there is a high percentage of never truly recovering.

01:58:03.000 Yeah.

01:58:04.000 No, there's, like, a few.

01:58:06.000 Like, I have a little list here.

01:58:08.000 Like, there's something called pentasand polysulfate, I'm sure he might be trying, BPC-157 you've heard of, and something like the thymosin beta. 0.89

01:58:17.000 Like, some of these are kind of, like, commonly known, would be expected, but I imagine it's very much from the acceleration of recovery, like you said, and then also just trying to make sure this shit never happens again.

01:58:28.000 And he's actually confident going into the ring, and...

01:58:32.000 Yeah, like for him it's kind of a unique loophole for sure and I don't know like how Right.

01:59:00.000 Yeah.

01:59:00.000 And looks massive.

01:59:02.000 Yeah.

01:59:03.000 I mean, he looks well over 200 pounds right now.

01:59:05.000 Yeah.

01:59:05.000 IGF-1, too, forgot to mention, would also be something that would make sense.

01:59:10.000 But yeah, and there's other compounds, but I would think the growth factor side of things would make the most sense.

01:59:15.000 When a guy breaks a leg like that, how long is it before that thing is 100%?

01:59:22.000 Like, it seems like I would, as far as, like, injury recovery goes for something that significant, like, I wouldn't know personally off the top of my head, but it seemed like there were certain individuals that took I forgot what Anthony Smith's injury was, but it was not as severe.

01:59:36.000 And there was other individuals who had significant bone-related injuries that took way fucking longer to come back.

01:59:42.000 Yeah.

01:59:43.000 Anthony thought his leg was broken, but it turned out it wasn't.

01:59:46.000 Okay.

01:59:47.000 But it was some sort of a significant, I think it was a ligament injury or something like that, which is why it was so unstable that he thought it was cracked.

01:59:55.000 Is that what's going on?

01:59:56.000 What was Anthony Smith's injury?

02:00:02.000 We had a leg break.

02:00:04.000 I don't know.

02:00:06.000 I'm trying to see if it gets corrected.

02:00:08.000 Well, I cracked my shin skiing.

02:00:10.000 It's called an insufficiency fracture.

02:00:13.000 Okay.

02:00:14.000 I had a menoscopy.

02:00:17.000 I have some meniscus missing from the inside of my knee.

02:00:20.000 And I crashed skiing.

02:00:23.000 And I got a crack.

02:00:25.000 And I was walking around. 0.99

02:00:26.000 I was like, this fucking hurts in a weird way. 0.99

02:00:28.000 I better get an MRI. And then I got it checked out. 0.99

02:00:30.000 And the doctor's like, the top of your shin...

02:00:33.000 Where it meets, the cartilage is cracked.

02:00:36.000 Yeah.

02:00:36.000 And it healed.

02:00:37.000 You know, it took a couple months and it was gone, but it's like...

02:00:41.000 You know, that was no big deal.

02:00:44.000 Didn't have to get screws or cast or anything.

02:00:46.000 I just did normal stuff.

02:00:47.000 I just didn't throw any kicks or anything.

02:00:50.000 Reveals what caused leg break. 0.99

02:00:52.000 He said just fucking shit luck. 0.99

02:00:55.000 And so it is a leg break. 1.00

02:01:00.000 Stepped on the foot, pulled back, and then dragged my body forward.

02:01:03.000 I thought...

02:01:04.000 But this is like right after the fight, correct?

02:01:07.000 Yeah, that thing I was just reading was like some other complications he had after he got surgery or had some...

02:01:14.000 What was that?

02:01:16.000 Did he have like staph infection or something?

02:01:18.000 They thought he had a clot or something.

02:01:19.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:01:20.000 I guess he didn't.

02:01:21.000 He went to the doctor.

02:01:22.000 They told him to go home.

02:01:24.000 So what was actually wrong with the leg?

02:01:27.000 They're trying to find the date.

02:01:28.000 They're saying leg break.

02:01:30.000 This is November 3rd.

02:01:32.000 I felt like he didn't break his leg.

02:01:35.000 I felt like he thought it was broken, but then Dana White said it wasn't.

02:01:41.000 Yeah.

02:01:43.000 Okay.

02:01:44.000 Either or.

02:01:45.000 It wasn't as significant as Connor's where you snap both the tibia and the fibula.

02:01:49.000 Both of them, it was dangling there.

02:01:51.000 I mean, he went into that fight with a fractured leg.

02:01:56.000 Yeah.

02:01:56.000 Like, he had a stress fracture that was already there.

02:01:59.000 Like, they were looking at it.

02:02:00.000 Headed for surgery after suffering broken ankle.

02:02:03.000 Dana White admits error.

02:02:04.000 Oh, so Dana had said that it wasn't broken, but it in fact was broken.

02:02:09.000 I get it.

02:02:11.000 Yeah, so he had to get his ankle repaired.

02:02:14.000 Jeez.

02:02:15.000 Which is bad, but not as bad.

02:02:17.000 You know, getting the tibia and the fibula snap, and then you have to re-establish blood flow, and everything has to heal back up. 0.99

02:02:25.000 And then also, you're fucking kicking knees and elbows and shit. 0.98

02:02:29.000 I mean, how confident is he going to be throwing that leg? 0.99

02:02:32.000 Yeah, I guess he's one of the premier shit-talkers, but it's wild how aggressive he is with it still, even though he's kind of in this, I don't know, losing streak position. 0.95

02:02:43.000 Yeah, it is weird. 0.96

02:02:46.000 His last big win was Donald Cerrone, which was a significant win, but then, you know, I wonder, you know, it could be just inactivity, too.

02:02:57.000 The inactivity is probably one of the bigger factors in his demise.

02:03:02.000 Maybe even more so than just the silk sheets.

02:03:07.000 He said that after the Dustin Poirier fight.

02:03:09.000 When Dustin Poirier knocked him out, he's like, I just feel like inactivity is a real problem.

02:03:13.000 I just need to get back in here and be active.

02:03:16.000 Because there's a lot going on in a fight, and if you're not accustomed to fighting at a high level, the stress of that moment is so overwhelming.

02:03:25.000 Yeah.

02:03:26.000 Very, very difficult for guys to just take years off and jump back in and be at 100%. 0.93

02:03:30.000 Yeah, like even the guys who were on a hot streak like Costa and just melting under pressure, some of them, it's, you know, definitely seems like even at the highest level with the most confident of individuals, they might just fucking... 0.96

02:03:42.000 Like, crack under the pressure.

02:03:43.000 He's a funny guy.

02:03:44.000 Like, he's leaning into this whole secret juice thing.

02:03:46.000 Yeah, hilarious.

02:03:46.000 Like, he carries around his jug that has secret juice on it.

02:03:49.000 Do you think that he's on something, or do you think he's just, like, very extraordinary genetics?

02:03:57.000 That's the thing.

02:03:58.000 I did a whole deep dive video on what I think he could be doing.

02:04:02.000 And I think for any individual that doesn't pass the eye test, he would definitely be one of those individuals.

02:04:08.000 But I wouldn't boil it down to that.

02:04:10.000 He could be a hyper outlier individual for sure.

02:04:14.000 And I wouldn't want to ever say a definitive statement, but I think if there was ever a person, maybe not if there was ever a person, but I think it's highly probable that he's done certain things, for sure.

02:04:27.000 Even when he went into the Ultimate Fighter, what is the show called again?

02:04:32.000 Yeah, he went in as a self-proclaimed bodybuilder from Brazil, and his physique very much represented what you would expect.

02:04:43.000 Obviously, he was more of a newbie back then, but even outside of myself, highly respected individuals like Farras Zahabi also believes he's on gear or has done certain things.

02:04:55.000 Yeah, it's, you know, you can never say for certain if they're passing tests, obviously, but a lot of finicky shit sometimes goes into when they're testing out of the country, you know, politics, corruption, etc.

02:05:07.000 Yes.

02:05:08.000 I didn't know how, I wouldn't say there's a lack of comprehension in the, comprehensiveness in the USADA tests, but they're not bulletproof.

02:05:21.000 Yeah, it's not that they're not trying.

02:05:23.000 It's like they only have so much.

02:05:24.000 Well, I guess, like, who's interpreting that?

02:05:27.000 Some people might say otherwise.

02:05:29.000 But it is budget-restricted, so you can only do so much testing on every fighter.

02:05:35.000 And then sometimes their choice of who's being tested, though, is definitely a little bit iffy.

02:05:40.000 Like, there was the light-heavy guy.

02:05:43.000 I think it was Jiri, or what's his name?

02:05:46.000 Yeah, he was tested like 51 times.

02:05:49.000 Yeah, and then if you looked at like a Dillashaw, he was tested like nine times or something, which is just like, why?

02:05:55.000 Right.

02:05:56.000 Why has he tested less? 0.81

02:05:57.000 Yeah, like some of the most premier suspect guys were tested like single digit times, and this other guy somehow has like half of USADA's fucking budget allocated to him.

02:06:07.000 Like, I get that he was new in the actual sport, like he was coming from, I forget where he came from exactly, but Well, he was not new in MMA. No, no, no.

02:06:17.000 He just wasn't fighting.

02:06:18.000 New to the UFC, right?

02:06:19.000 Yeah.

02:06:19.000 So the idea that some people have put out is they needed to establish more of a comprehensive passport on him quicker so that he had more elaborate testing off the jump than...

02:06:28.000 Look at that, though.

02:06:29.000 That's so nuts.

02:06:30.000 Yeah, it was a really...

02:06:31.000 He's so much more tested than anyone else.

02:06:33.000 Yeah.

02:06:34.000 It was like a wild disparity.

02:06:37.000 Wild.

02:06:37.000 Rose Namajunas got tested more than Paulo Costa.

02:06:43.000 That's crazy.

02:06:45.000 Neil Magny got tested more than Paulo Costa.

02:06:48.000 That is nuts.

02:06:50.000 And for Dillashaw, only getting single-digit tests, it was like...

02:06:53.000 Yeah.

02:06:53.000 It just very much brought into question, like, were they hoping he'd have more leeway in order to not give him the opportunity to actually have a good...

02:07:04.000 Right.

02:07:25.000 You know, you can't really get insight onto what their decision-making process is.

02:07:29.000 Like, even when asked about Connor, they were very, very vague in their answer.

02:07:33.000 It was very much just like, this is what the rule set is for getting in and out of the pool and the testing window that you need to be subject to in order to be qualified to fight again, and that's it.

02:07:43.000 We're not going to speak on any individual fighter, what has happened with them or not happened with them, etc.

02:07:47.000 I blame you.

02:07:48.000 I do!

02:07:51.000 When you covered the Jon Jones situation, like that was very illuminating to me.

02:07:56.000 I was like, oh, okay.

02:07:59.000 And then you were talking about the test levels and the epitestosterone to testosterone ratio and how it was all off.

02:08:07.000 And all of these points seem to indicate that someone who is supplementing with exogenous hormones.

02:08:15.000 Yeah, it was like a pretty comprehensive, like, picture that is hard to dispute with all the evidence presented.

02:08:23.000 Yeah.

02:08:24.000 Like, you couldn't be like, oh, for fucking sure, but, like, it's pretty hard to refute, like, what has been put in front of our face with the positive test results and all the other background context. 0.71

02:08:34.000 Yeah, and it's also a guy who... 0.96

02:08:37.000 You know, he's a wild dude. 0.99

02:08:39.000 He's doing a lot of wild shit. 1.00

02:08:41.000 He's doing coke. 1.00

02:08:43.000 It's not like his body's a temple.

02:08:47.000 What do you think about his comeback?

02:08:50.000 Interesting.

02:08:50.000 If anybody wanted to get bigger and get taken out of the pool, I would have thought John did it.

02:08:55.000 I mean, that would be the move, you know?

02:08:58.000 Yeah.

02:08:58.000 Get super saucy.

02:08:59.000 I wonder if he saw the situation and was like, fuck. 1.00

02:09:02.000 Yeah, probably. 1.00

02:09:03.000 Because he's trying to come back naturally. 1.00

02:09:05.000 But he's fucking big as shit now. 0.99

02:09:07.000 He's like 255, 260 now. 0.99

02:09:11.000 The question is, that's a lot of time off.

02:09:14.000 But if Francis Ngannou versus Jon Jones is the big fight, well, Francis has had to take a lot of time off as well because Francis had a torn MCL and ACL, had to get surgery, reconstructed his leg, rehabilitated it, out for over a year.

02:09:31.000 So that, to me, is very interesting.

02:09:33.000 I like that fight because Francis has had a lot of time off, Jon's had a lot of time off, and, you know, It's commensurate.

02:09:42.000 At least close.

02:09:43.000 I mean, obviously Francis has been more active recently.

02:09:45.000 But at least that time off makes sense to me.

02:09:48.000 And it's a very compelling fight.

02:09:50.000 And I think John, his background, his resume does warrant an immediate shot at the title.

02:09:57.000 He's absolutely one of the greatest fighters of all time.

02:09:59.000 No ifs, ands, or buts.

02:10:00.000 And him stepping up from light heavyweight, relinquishing the title, voluntarily saying, I'm done with this.

02:10:06.000 I'm going to move up to heavyweight and be the heavyweight champ and then building himself legitimately into a heavyweight and then documenting it all.

02:10:14.000 Showing all the deadlifts, showing all the squats, showing, put on size and put on some body fat.

02:10:21.000 That's compelling.

02:10:22.000 What do you foresee as, if it happened, what would be your prediction?

02:10:28.000 Well, the grappling of Jon Jones is very difficult to deal with.

02:10:31.000 I mean, for a guy like Francis Ngannou, who was primarily a striker and was taken down on multiple occasions by Stipe Miocic, And really dominated in their first fight.

02:10:43.000 The question is, has Francis gotten better at grappling?

02:10:47.000 Well, he definitely has, because he beat Cyril Ghosn with grappling.

02:10:50.000 That was the fight that he fought with his blown-out leg. 0.98

02:10:53.000 And he fought Cyril Ghosn, who is a fucking phenomenal striker. 0.80

02:10:58.000 I don't know if you saw Cyril Ghosn versus Tai Tuivasa. 0.99

02:11:01.000 Holy shit is Cyril Ghosn good. 0.94

02:11:03.000 He's so technical, so smooth, and his combinations are... 0.99

02:11:08.000 Francis beat him with his grappling.

02:11:11.000 So Francis' grappling, even with a fucked up leg, has gotten a lot better, but hasn't got to Jon Jones levels. 0.52

02:11:17.000 That's the big question.

02:11:18.000 Because Jon is...

02:11:20.000 Jon took down Daniel Cormier, who's an Olympic wrestler. 0.99

02:11:24.000 I mean, Jon's a fucking monster when it comes to grappling. 0.97

02:11:27.000 And he's also just as tall as anybody in the heavyweight division. 0.99

02:11:31.000 And he has a phenomenal understanding of distance.

02:11:35.000 He's the very best at utilizing reach.

02:11:39.000 But when he goes up, he's now fighting guys that are his height and even bigger than him, and Francis.

02:11:45.000 So how does he deal with that?

02:11:46.000 How does he deal with a guy like Cyril Ghosn?

02:11:48.000 How does he deal with these...

02:11:50.000 It's interesting to find out, and I love the fact that he really didn't want to do light heavyweight anymore.

02:11:55.000 He's like, I'm done.

02:11:56.000 I want a new challenge.

02:11:57.000 I want to be a two-division champion.

02:11:59.000 But it's a long time.

02:12:01.000 It's taken a long time.

02:12:02.000 How old is he now?

02:12:04.000 I would imagine John's 35, 36 maybe.

02:12:07.000 What is like peak fighter age?

02:12:09.000 35?

02:12:10.000 Around there.

02:12:11.000 How old is he?

02:12:12.000 He's 35?

02:12:13.000 I think peak fighter age is probably 30 to 34. Okay.

02:12:19.000 If I had to guess.

02:12:20.000 And below, obviously.

02:12:22.000 You know, some elite fighters are 26, 27. But when it gets to championship level, there's one thing like prospects.

02:12:29.000 It's very rare that someone is at championship level that young.

02:12:32.000 That's why John was so amazing.

02:12:34.000 John was the youngest ever UFC champion and was as elite as anybody alive when he was 22 years old.

02:12:43.000 He was as good at everything as anybody was.

02:12:46.000 He opened up the fight for the world title against Mauricio Shogun Hua, who's a legend.

02:12:52.000 He opens up that fight with a flying knee.

02:12:54.000 Which is crazy.

02:12:55.000 Who does that?

02:12:56.000 But that's John.

02:12:57.000 He's just a wild, confident, risk-taking, skillful fighter who has one of the highest fight IQs I've ever seen.

02:13:06.000 His ability to know what to do and when to do it is just extraordinary.

02:13:10.000 The thing about Francis, though, is he has nuclear power.

02:13:15.000 It's a totally different kind of power. 1.00

02:13:17.000 Yeah, it's like you get caught with one shot and you're just fucked. 0.99

02:13:20.000 He's a 265-pound natural 6'5 man. 1.00

02:13:26.000 I mean, Francis is a monster. 0.88

02:13:29.000 And he hits people where you just sit there and go, Jesus. 0.96

02:13:33.000 The Alistair Overeem one is the best example.

02:13:36.000 He hit Alistair Overeem with a left uppercut slash hook, where Alistair's head snapped so far back he was looking at his ankles.

02:13:44.000 It was just crazy.

02:13:46.000 That knockout was just like, Jesus. 1.00

02:13:50.000 That's what Francis has.

02:13:51.000 And when he knocked out Stipe Miocic to win the title, like...

02:13:56.000 And, you know, John has to be very, very, very aware of that.

02:13:59.000 Francis has a giant striking advantage.

02:14:01.000 Giant.

02:14:02.000 Yeah, it's wild when you see guys, like, grind through five rounds and they still get caught at the end with, like, one shot and it's just, that's all it takes.

02:14:08.000 Yeah, Kamaru Usman and Leon Edwards.

02:14:10.000 Yeah.

02:14:11.000 Or, like, the Pereira.

02:14:12.000 Yeah.

02:14:13.000 We were talking about that last year and I was like, Asking what you thought how it was going to go. 0.85

02:14:17.000 You can never fucking put your guard down or be too careful with that guy. 0.55

02:14:22.000 Well, that's an interesting thing. 0.96

02:14:23.000 I mean, how much have you looked into the science of weight cutting?

02:14:28.000 Yeah, there are certain drugs you can use that I believe aren't banned that you can do pretty hyper-aggressive fat loss in short, condensed time frames.

02:14:39.000 Like what drugs?

02:14:40.000 Have you ever heard of DNP? No.

02:14:43.000 Dinitrophenol.

02:14:44.000 It was used in explosives in World War I, and then they found out that after the workers were creating the bombs, they were overheating and dying, and they figured out it was because it was being absorbed transdermally and increasing their metabolism so much that they were internally overheating.

02:14:58.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:14:59.000 Yeah, and they marketed it as a fat loss agent for however many years in like the, I don't know, like decades ago, like almost a fucking hundred years ago at this point.

02:15:08.000 And people started dying because it's very easy to miscalculate your dose or use...

02:15:14.000 Like, the lethal dose is not that far from the effective dose.

02:15:17.000 Oh, God.

02:15:18.000 And people are overheating and dying, and they took it off the mark, and it's become illegal.

02:15:21.000 But as far as I know, I don't think they actually test for it in USADA. Like, if you put in, like, their drug database, 2,4-dinitrophenol, I don't think they test for it.

02:15:30.000 And there are certain other things too, but there are a lot of loopholes.

02:15:35.000 I don't even think they test for stimulants outside of competition either, like amphetamines and whatnot.

02:15:40.000 Really?

02:15:40.000 Yeah, so there are a lot of things you could do to nuke your appetite, increase energy expenditure significantly, drop water weight potentially more aggressively, and cut harder than would otherwise be naturally possible potentially.

02:15:56.000 Yeah.

02:15:56.000 So, I don't necessarily think that he's doing all these things, but when you see a guy lose, like, fucking 60 pounds or something, you can only imagine he's looking for any loophole that...

02:16:05.000 What about stuff like semaglutide?

02:16:07.000 That, as well.

02:16:08.000 Yeah, that is...

02:16:09.000 Is that legal in USADA? You could check easily.

02:16:12.000 It's like UFC DRO and you type in the database any drug name and it'll say in competition, out of competition, allowed or not.

02:16:19.000 I imagine GLP-1 agonists are not restricted because it's like used to treat type 2 diabetes or obesity at the higher dosages and super effective.

02:16:30.000 Yeah.

02:16:31.000 So does that just curb your appetite?

02:16:33.000 Is that what that stuff does?

02:16:35.000 Yeah, so it basically makes you feel satiated way easier, essentially.

02:16:41.000 Your compulsion to eat is so dramatically hindered that you're way more likely to stick to a diet.

02:16:48.000 Even individuals...

02:16:49.000 If you become a morbidly obese person, sometimes there are genetic predispositions at play, for sure.

02:16:56.000 But in addition, a lot of these individuals, they...

02:17:00.000 Lack willpower to stick to a diet and like follow a well thought out like exercise regimen or whatever.

02:17:06.000 Like to get to that point, many of them do lack the willpower necessary because they're just, you know, succumb to cravings and whatnot.

02:17:13.000 And not every individual has the same like Yeah.

02:17:36.000 I think?

02:18:04.000 We're good to go.

02:18:22.000 Yeah.

02:18:39.000 Do you think that using semaglutide, though, would affect physical performance?

02:18:44.000 Because of the diminished appetite, is there any other sort of feedback loop that would let you, like, maybe you wouldn't take in the nutrients that are necessary to have a good workout?

02:18:55.000 Potentially.

02:18:57.000 Not prohibited.

02:18:59.000 Semaglutide.

02:18:59.000 In competition, not prohibited.

02:19:01.000 Not prohibited, out of competition.

02:19:02.000 This is something that is just being learned about.

02:19:05.000 Like, in the...

02:19:07.000 Health space, health and wellness, and actual scientific community.

02:19:11.000 Semaglutide has been known about for a long time because it was used to manage type 2 diabetes, but only more recently has it started to pick up steam and popularity for its effects on obesity because all these crazy headlines started coming out about people losing 30, 40 plus pounds who otherwise couldn't.

02:19:27.000 And as far as how it would affect a fighter's ability to assimilate nutrients, stuff like that, Yeah, it slows gastric emptying significantly.

02:19:33.000 It can cause pretty intense GI issues, make you nauseous.

02:19:39.000 Maybe you don't even want to eat the food that you need to eat.

02:19:41.000 It kind of depends on what situation you're imposing on yourself.

02:19:46.000 But yeah, it's not a side effect-free drug by any means.

02:19:49.000 That would be significant.

02:19:50.000 That would be a real problem, I would think.

02:19:52.000 Don't you think?

02:19:52.000 Yeah, it depends on your individual response.

02:19:55.000 Like, you know, there are a lot of individuals using it.

02:19:58.000 Like, even Elon Musk uses it now.

02:20:00.000 What?

02:20:00.000 Yeah, he posted a tweet.

02:20:02.000 It was like, somebody was like, hey, Elon, how are you so lean now?

02:20:06.000 Or like, how'd you lose the weight?

02:20:07.000 And he was like, fasting and Wegovy. 0.99

02:20:09.000 And Wegovy is the branded 2.4 milligram increment of semaglutide.

02:20:14.000 So it's like, it's like the highest dose you could be using.

02:20:19.000 Wow.

02:20:20.000 Yeah.

02:20:20.000 So how does he look now?

02:20:22.000 A lot thinner.

02:20:24.000 Does he?

02:20:24.000 Yeah.

02:20:25.000 Show a picture of Elon Musk looking jacked.

02:20:29.000 Like that.

02:20:30.000 Have you seen that thing that people made us?

02:20:33.000 That's Elon.

02:20:35.000 That's supposed to be, it's called GigaChad.

02:20:37.000 It's if he was following the nine ancestral tenants. 0.99

02:20:40.000 Yeah, if he was like just eating raw liver, sunning his balls. 0.89

02:20:44.000 He said he used popular weight loss drug to get fit, ripped, and healthy. 0.91

02:20:49.000 He does look thinner there.

02:20:51.000 Yeah, there we go.

02:20:52.000 That was the tweet.

02:20:55.000 Let's see.

02:20:55.000 Oh yeah, it looks quite a bit thinner.

02:20:58.000 Well, you know what?

02:20:59.000 There was a photo of him on a yacht where he looked like a wine barrel.

02:21:02.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:21:03.000 He got big. 0.99

02:21:05.000 The guy works fucking 16 hours a day. 0.99

02:21:07.000 Sometimes it's unflattering angles, though. 0.99

02:21:10.000 You're, you know, pushing your stomach and whatever.

02:21:12.000 A little fasting and Wegovy. 0.88

02:21:14.000 Yeah.

02:21:15.000 So Wegovy is like the... 0.97

02:21:18.000 There are different increments of dosage from the company that makes it and the lower dosage, like the drug is semaglutide and I think the lower one is called Ozempic and it's for diabetes management but it's basically just like a pen that's like in one milligram increments and that's the diabetes management dose.

02:21:37.000 There's other smaller increments too but 2.4 milligrams is like the max well-tolerated dose where for obesity management it's like significantly more effective.

02:21:47.000 I would think that for a fighter, if that really does have all those gastrointestinal issues and...

02:21:53.000 Yeah, the net ROI might be negative.

02:21:55.000 Yeah, I would think so.

02:21:56.000 Yeah, it depends.

02:21:57.000 Yeah.

02:21:58.000 What other thing...

02:21:59.000 There's a limited supply for that drug right now.

02:22:01.000 Of course!

02:22:03.000 We've talked about it 15 times.

02:22:05.000 You can't get it. 0.99

02:22:05.000 All these fat people are so mad. 0.99

02:22:08.000 Yeah, well, lose weight. 0.84

02:22:10.000 It's like the value of willpower is very underappreciated, but I get it.

02:22:16.000 And especially when someone is – they're used to consuming a lot of carbohydrates.

02:22:20.000 It's very difficult to cut that down to a place where you're actually going to be in a deficit.

02:22:26.000 Yeah, it's like some of the neurochemical changes that happen when you're accustomed to like the Western diet with processed foods and stuff, you're kind of, some of these individuals I think are imposing a situation on themselves where their brain is so sugar addicted or processed food addicted where they then need pharmacology to stick to a reasonable calorie intake so they can eat their like shitty foods too.

02:22:47.000 Where I think a lot of this, not always, but some of this appetite feedback regulating stuff could happen naturally if you just had Like a high-quality diet, high-quality sleep.

02:22:57.000 Like a lot of these things are massively impacted by sleep quality, duration, diet quality, exercise regimen.

02:23:04.000 And it sort of self-regulates itself like a normal healthy body would. 0.85

02:23:08.000 And some of this stuff could be band-aids for certain individuals who are getting shit sleep, doing whatever. 0.96

02:23:13.000 That makes sense. 0.96

02:23:15.000 When I did the carnivore diet, I was pretty shocked at how easily satisfied I was.

02:23:21.000 And if I had done the carnivore diet and someone put a plate of spaghetti in front of me while I was doing that, I would be done eating fine with the carnivore diet.

02:23:30.000 But the spaghetti would be like, I want that now.

02:23:32.000 And I could eat that.

02:23:33.000 Like I could probably eat a whole bowl of spaghetti after being completely satisfied with steak.

02:23:40.000 Whereas when I was on that diet, very strictly, which is just for a month, I could be fine.

02:23:46.000 I'm done eating. 1.00

02:23:47.000 Isn't that weird how you have like a second stomach for shit? 1.00

02:23:50.000 Yes. 1.00

02:23:50.000 For shit? 1.00

02:23:51.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:23:51.000 French fries. 1.00

02:23:52.000 I eat my dinner and I'm like, I don't want more of that.

02:23:54.000 But ice cream?

02:23:55.000 Yes. 1.00

02:23:55.000 Fuck yeah, give me all of that. 1.00

02:23:57.000 Isn't that wild? 1.00

02:23:58.000 All of a sudden I can pile down like 2,000 more calories.

02:24:01.000 Like.

02:24:01.000 Crazy.

02:24:02.000 Yeah. 0.85

02:24:02.000 And even like nuts. 0.85

02:24:04.000 Like sometimes I'll eat and I'll be totally done with my healthy meal, but I'll be like, I want some almonds.

02:24:09.000 Let me grab some almonds.

02:24:10.000 But like a handful of almonds is like 500 calories.

02:24:13.000 Yeah.

02:24:13.000 Like a handful.

02:24:14.000 That's it, right?

02:24:15.000 No, it's absurd.

02:24:16.000 Almonds are like very rich in calories, aren't they?

02:24:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:24:19.000 Yeah, it's so easy to...

02:24:21.000 And that's one thing when people, they think they're eating clean and they don't realize these little things that you do throughout the day.

02:24:27.000 They stack up.

02:24:28.000 If you just put them all in a bowl and then you measure the calories in that bowl, you're like, oh, that's 1,500 calories.

02:24:34.000 Yeah, what was wild is there was this university in Canada that removed all of the nutritional information, apparently, from the foods that the students are getting on their meal plans because it was, like, too triggering to show the calories.

02:24:48.000 Ah!

02:24:49.000 And then it presents this fucked up scenario where you can't even self-regulate. 1.00

02:24:54.000 Even the individuals who want to stay at a healthy weight, you can't even figure out what the fuck you're eating. 0.99

02:25:00.000 I don't know. 0.95

02:25:02.000 I'm on board with intuitive eating.

02:25:05.000 If you've gotten to the point where you've educated yourself enough about what your body actually needs, when to stop eating, and you've established healthy practices that have become cemented as your foundational infrastructure, but to then have a guy who doesn't even know how to diet and be like,

02:25:21.000 oh, don't worry about it.

02:25:21.000 Just eat until you're satisfied.

02:25:23.000 That's how you get fat. 1.00

02:25:25.000 If I ate until I felt good, I would be a fat fuck. 0.99

02:25:28.000 There was a viral video that went around that was a woman who was—God, I don't think she was a professor somewhere—who was talking about avoiding certain foods is just fatphobic, and it's not based in science, 0.99

02:25:43.000 and you shouldn't deny yourself donuts, and— That it's all, you know, to call some food junk food is incorrect.

02:25:51.000 And it's like, how are you ever speaking publicly on this? 0.99

02:25:57.000 This is also, she was obese as fuck. 1.00

02:25:59.000 You know what I'm talking about, Jamie? 0.99

02:26:01.000 You remember that video?

02:26:02.000 Where, like, people, nutritionists were outraged.

02:26:05.000 Like, it's the same kind of outrage that you should have at them thinking that it's triggering to have...

02:26:21.000 It's just a factual thing that exists.

02:26:26.000 I feel like it should be my problem if I'm triggered by it.

02:26:30.000 Exactly.

02:26:31.000 It is your problem if you're triggered by it.

02:26:33.000 What they're doing, they're raising the anti-David Gogginses.

02:26:37.000 They're raising the most non-resilient people possibly known to man, where every single microaggression, every single thing that could trigger you, all those are removed.

02:26:49.000 You are just raw and vulnerable.

02:26:59.000 Yeah, it's wild how the shift to like comfort mentality has very much become commonplace and it's just like I feel like this is partially why men's testosterone levels are dropping, too. 0.99

02:27:13.000 Like, just, like, the lifestyle and encouragement to be, like, a sedentary piece of shit who's offended and insulted by literally everything. 0.90

02:27:20.000 Like, none of it is conducive to masculinity. 0.98

02:27:23.000 I don't know when it gives them promotion, but that's where I came from. 0.70

02:27:25.000 Two fat professors fighting fatphobia with education, community building, and a lot of sass. 0.96

02:27:33.000 Jeez. 0.98

02:27:34.000 Derek, they have sass. 0.99

02:27:36.000 That's not them, though.

02:27:38.000 It was a woman in a video that was... 1.00

02:27:41.000 I couldn't find a video.

02:27:42.000 Okay, it doesn't matter. 1.00

02:27:43.000 But fuck off, fat professors. 1.00

02:27:45.000 Fuck off. 1.00

02:27:46.000 You guys are unhealthy. 1.00

02:27:48.000 And it's not in any way good. 1.00

02:27:51.000 Yeah, it sucks if someone's fat and they feel bad if someone calls them fat. 0.96

02:27:54.000 You're right. 0.95

02:27:55.000 And someone shouldn't do that. 0.98

02:27:56.000 But they're fat. 0.99

02:27:58.000 And you're fat. 0.91

02:27:59.000 And the promotion of stuff that's not even food, too. 0.98

02:28:04.000 Donuts.

02:28:04.000 Yeah.

02:28:05.000 Like, I'm not saying you shouldn't indulge, but it's like...

02:28:07.000 Yeah.

02:28:07.000 You should earn it.

02:28:08.000 Yeah.

02:28:09.000 Earn indulgence. 1.00

02:28:10.000 If I have a piece of cake, I fucking earn that shit. 1.00

02:28:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:28:12.000 And if I don't earn that shit, I feel gross after I eat that piece of cake. 1.00

02:28:16.000 But I try to balance it out, and a lot of people are not... 0.99

02:28:19.000 They don't have the willpower to balance it out.

02:28:21.000 They don't.

02:28:22.000 They're not going to.

02:28:23.000 They're not going to self-correct.

02:28:24.000 They're not going to look at their gut in the mirror and go, Jesus, what am I doing with this?

02:28:28.000 They're never going to make that, okay, tomorrow we stop this and we start that and now we get going in a positive direction.

02:28:35.000 That's one of the good things about Goggins, though, too, is he showed that even him, who's the most incredibly disciplined and hard individual out there, He even at one point was not in the best shape.

02:28:46.000 300 pounds.

02:28:47.000 And turned it around and look at him now. 0.99

02:28:49.000 So it's like if he can do it, fucking anyone can for sure. 0.97

02:28:52.000 Yeah, he's the best with that because he's not scared of being vulnerable. 0.98

02:28:56.000 So he's not scared of communicating that.

02:28:58.000 It's just...

02:28:59.000 This is like the problem with this fitness and one of the things I really admire about you is your openness and your also...

02:29:07.000 You are so educated on so many different subjects when it comes to supplementation and training modalities and all these different things.

02:29:14.000 And you just talk about stuff from a place of actual knowledge. 0.99

02:29:19.000 There's so much bullshit in that world. 1.00

02:29:22.000 It's like so many people are just full of crap. 1.00

02:29:25.000 Yeah, no, it's wild how much misinformation is in this industry and, like, misleading, I don't know, just, like, information designed to make you buy into whatever it is that they're trying to promote that is, like, this is the only way, there's no other alternative, 0.97

02:29:41.000 and I think more transparency in the industry overall is just...

02:29:45.000 You know, always a net benefit for the individuals watching trying to educate themselves.

02:29:51.000 Very, very hard to come by.

02:29:53.000 It's such an overwhelming amount of information now, too, across social media.

02:29:56.000 It's like, who do you even trust or listen to half the time?

02:30:00.000 Well, I know they can trust and listen to you.

02:30:02.000 It's one of the things I appreciate about you.

02:30:03.000 And one of the things that happens when a guy like the Liver King gets so massive Is that he develops this incredible following that really is unjustified given the fact that he's lied about stuff.

02:30:16.000 But then that will come towards you now.

02:30:18.000 And a lot of that will come towards you because people realize, like, who's this guy who's exposed this?

02:30:22.000 And what is this?

02:30:23.000 Oh, this guy's interesting.

02:30:25.000 Oh, look how educational this is.

02:30:27.000 Look how much information this guy's giving out.

02:30:30.000 Like, this is great.

02:30:31.000 And then they'll go to your other videos and they'll say, oh, there's like a real good benefit to this.

02:30:35.000 And you talk about stuff without any worry about the moral quandary involved.

02:30:38.000 You know, you're just like, this is what's effective, and this is what works, and this is a...

02:30:43.000 And, you know, that's how it should be.

02:30:45.000 Like, it should be up to the person who's taking it to make your own decisions in terms of what you should and shouldn't do with your body. 0.98

02:30:51.000 But you also show, look at this guy's fucking back and the acne. 1.00

02:30:55.000 Look at this guy's tits from gyno. 1.00

02:30:57.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:30:57.000 No, I'm sure that's why I... As much as I do, too, appreciate the stuff you do. 0.98

02:31:01.000 It's very, very transparent into what you do, what's effective, why you do it, what you feel is a waste of time, why, how you've learned things, how you've educated yourself over the years.

02:31:11.000 You always have people on, regardless of how big or small their social media following is, too.

02:31:16.000 Yeah.

02:31:30.000 Yeah, that's all my requirements.

02:31:32.000 So there's so many famous people that have tried to get on.

02:31:34.000 I'm like, eh.

02:31:35.000 I don't see where that's going to go.

02:31:37.000 I only want to talk to people that I'm interested.

02:31:39.000 And it's just up to me.

02:31:40.000 Like, I will entertain it sometimes.

02:31:42.000 Like, a famous person will try to come on.

02:31:45.000 I'll go, all right, let me go watch an interview with them.

02:31:47.000 Let me see there's something there.

02:31:49.000 Maybe, like, read something that they said or wrote.

02:31:52.000 Yeah.

02:31:52.000 You know, for the most part, I'm just interested in what I'm interested in.

02:31:55.000 And I don't try to wonder why.

02:31:58.000 I just go, oh, this guy's cool, or this guy's...

02:32:00.000 She's fascinating.

02:32:02.000 Like, I'm having a beekeeper on soon.

02:32:04.000 Because I'm like, what's it like being a beekeeper?

02:32:06.000 I'm interested.

02:32:07.000 I had that guy from White Oak Pastures, Will Harris.

02:32:10.000 Oh, right on.

02:32:10.000 The regenerative farm.

02:32:11.000 I just want to talk to him.

02:32:12.000 What's it like farming?

02:32:14.000 Like, how long did you farm for?

02:32:15.000 Like, when did you turn your farm into this regenerative farm?

02:32:19.000 How difficult was that struggle?

02:32:20.000 I mean, is there a commercial value in that to speak to those people? 0.99

02:32:25.000 I don't fucking care. 0.97

02:32:27.000 I just, I want to know. 0.97

02:32:28.000 I'm interested.

02:32:29.000 And I feel like, you know, there's a value.

02:32:34.000 I'm interested in what people are interested in, too.

02:32:37.000 Like, if there's a guy who's, all he likes to do is paint with watercolors, I'm like, why?

02:32:43.000 What is it about watercolors?

02:32:45.000 Tell me.

02:32:45.000 I'm interested.

02:32:46.000 You're fucking Mike the watercolor guy. 0.99

02:32:49.000 Why? 0.99

02:32:50.000 What is it?

02:32:51.000 I want to learn about you because I think in doing so you learn about yourself.

02:32:55.000 You learn about the human mind.

02:32:57.000 Is there any guests that are like your top, I don't know, individuals you'd love to have on one night?

02:33:03.000 Hunter Biden!

02:33:05.000 Hunter, come on.

02:33:07.000 I'm your only way out of this.

02:33:10.000 No.

02:33:11.000 No, I don't care.

02:33:13.000 I mean, look, my friends are my favorite people to talk to.

02:33:16.000 You know, like having comedians on or fighters on.

02:33:19.000 Those are my favorite people to talk to for the most part.

02:33:22.000 But I enjoy it.

02:33:25.000 You know, it's just very fortunate.

02:33:27.000 But also an unexpected education.

02:33:31.000 Yeah.

02:33:31.000 That's been the most amazing part about it is to be able to talk to so many intelligent people that have so much information on so many different subjects and be able to quiz them.

02:33:39.000 Like I had Neil deGrasse Tyson on the other day.

02:33:40.000 Yeah.

02:33:41.000 And I'm asking him about the Webb telescope.

02:33:42.000 And I'm like, okay, tell me, how does it work?

02:33:44.000 What are they doing? 0.98

02:33:45.000 So it's like you get this free seminar with this fucking genius who gets to sit down and explain to you how they can shoot a telescope a million miles into space and take photos of the cosmos. 0.99

02:33:56.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:33:57.000 Wild.

02:33:58.000 What do you think of the neural link thing coming out soon?

02:34:01.000 Elon's gonna like chip himself or something?

02:34:05.000 He's gonna turn into a god.

02:34:06.000 He said he's gonna put a chip in himself when it comes out.

02:34:09.000 Yeah, I think he is.

02:34:09.000 And he's hoping next year, which is wild.

02:34:12.000 He'll probably do it.

02:34:13.000 I guarantee he'll do it.

02:34:15.000 They'll try it on some monkeys first. 1.00

02:34:17.000 Do you worry about that shit? 1.00

02:34:18.000 Yes. 1.00

02:34:18.000 The progression of... 1.00

02:34:19.000 Because I know...

02:34:20.000 Very much so.

02:34:21.000 I know you'll sit here and ask him about that stuff, and I don't know how much you worry about where it's going in terms of...

02:34:27.000 Yeah, I worry a lot.

02:34:28.000 I think it's inevitable, though.

02:34:30.000 I think there used to be single-celled organisms, and now there's multi-celled organisms that have cell phones.

02:34:35.000 I think that's just going to keep going.

02:34:37.000 And I think we're going to be inexorably connected to technology.

02:34:42.000 I think there's going to come a time where we're not going to breed sexually anymore. 0.99

02:34:46.000 I think that's probably where all this low-T shit is going. 0.99

02:34:50.000 Oh, for sure. 0.99

02:34:51.000 Even if you just see an attractive woman, your test goes up. 0.76

02:34:55.000 There's definitely a biological component to it that is above and beyond the whole phthalates and endocrine disruptors and stuff.

02:35:02.000 There is direct biological consequences to the way people are living.

02:35:06.000 Yes.

02:35:07.000 And there's also direct biological consequences to overcoming difficulties and success.

02:35:12.000 Yeah.

02:35:12.000 There's a lot of like weird interactions with hormones and real-world events.

02:35:18.000 No, I forget the study, but it was like comparing somebody who like won versus lost a competition or something, and it was like the winner would get a boost in tea, loser would lose tea.

02:35:28.000 Yes.

02:35:28.000 Oh, definitely.

02:35:29.000 That's true.

02:35:30.000 When I lost fights, I never wanted to have sex. 0.99

02:35:32.000 When I would lose fights, I'd just feel like a fucking loser and just want to go home and just go to sleep. 0.99

02:35:38.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:35:38.000 You just feel so down. 0.99

02:35:41.000 Yeah.

02:35:41.000 You know, and I think that's probably...

02:35:44.000 There's probably some sort of human biological reward system that's built into that to try to encourage conquerors.

02:35:53.000 Oh, for sure.

02:35:54.000 I wonder, like for you, obviously, I think you're in your early 50s now?

02:35:59.000 Yeah, 55. So, would you, if it was possible, if it even came out and, like, I don't know, David Sinclair came out with some, like, crazy longevity thing, you could just live forever, would you want to, like, maintain that in perpetuity?

02:36:14.000 And what do you think about just, like, the way...

02:36:17.000 I don't really know how to perceive if this is a good thing, the way things are going, just trying to turn people into robots and this whole shift towards maintaining the species in perpetuity.

02:36:29.000 There's one way to look at it is, would you want to live forever?

02:36:32.000 Yeah.

02:36:32.000 But the other way to look at it is, do you want to deteriorate?

02:36:35.000 Yeah, I don't even know how to adequately frame the question, but it's a very odd scenario where people are striving for this, I don't know.

02:36:44.000 Immortality, almost.

02:36:45.000 Yeah.

02:36:46.000 Yeah, I mean, Ray Kurzweil genuinely wants immortality.

02:36:49.000 He wants you to download consciousness into some sort of supercomputer, and then you will exist in this new realm.

02:36:56.000 Yeah, because I'm trying to imagine, like, what the future is of people just, like, have this fucking chip in their head, and they're just sitting there, like, brain-dead on a couch, like, just, like, simulating sex all day, essentially, and just, like, hammering the dopamine button, and that's pretty much it. 0.63

02:37:09.000 Like, is that life in 100 years? 0.95

02:37:11.000 Like, I don't even...

02:37:12.000 It's a real problem.

02:37:13.000 I mean, The Matrix used to be some fun movie that you'd go to watch and you'd be like, wow, what a crazy dystopian future.

02:37:21.000 But now in 2022, decades later, you go...

02:37:24.000 This is oddly, like, around the corner.

02:37:27.000 Yeah.

02:37:28.000 Yeah.

02:37:29.000 No, it's, like, eerie.

02:37:30.000 Like, how aligned some of, like, the old movies is sort of becoming.

02:37:34.000 Well, the metaverse is kind of failing, right?

02:37:36.000 Like, Zuckerberg pumped so much money into the metaverse, and now people are calling him a fool, and, you know, and they're, you know, how much money did...

02:37:46.000 Meta-loos on the metaverse, banking on the metaverse.

02:37:50.000 It was like billions.

02:37:50.000 Billions.

02:37:51.000 They laid off 11,000 people. 1.00

02:37:53.000 That's fucking crazy. 0.99

02:37:55.000 I didn't even understand what it was. 0.99

02:37:57.000 Was it just like you have a virtual character and you go hang out with people as in a video game that already exists, essentially?

02:38:03.000 Or what was the utility of it above and beyond basic things that, I don't know, in the gaming world already exist?

02:38:11.000 Well, there's things that are educational about it that are really interesting.

02:38:16.000 Like one of the things, he came in and he gave me one of the newer units that are out now to try on and show you the capabilities.

02:38:24.000 And one of the things you could do is virtual tourism.

02:38:28.000 So you could go to the Louvre in Paris and you're walking around with people that are in the Louvre.

02:38:34.000 So like they had someone wear it, right?

02:38:36.000 And then the cameras are all around.

02:38:39.000 They probably have like multiple people that did it.

02:38:41.000 And then there's all these actual human beings that are walking around the Louvre and you walk in between them and can go like walk right up to this painting and check it out.

02:38:52.000 And it looks pretty good.

02:38:53.000 I mean, it doesn't obviously look 100% real, but they can do that with things like Mount Everest.

02:38:58.000 They can do that with things like, you know, Mauna Loa.

02:39:02.000 You could go to, you know, Tahiti.

02:39:05.000 You could experience things that are unavailable to you.

02:39:08.000 Like, say, if you're living in some inner city and you're a young kid, you can get a wealth of, like, physical experiences through virtual reality.

02:39:17.000 This is how they marketed it.

02:39:19.000 This would even be over a year ago now.

02:39:21.000 This is what we're supposed to be getting to, although we're not quite there even yet.

02:39:26.000 But it's showing what you were just describing, like taking someone into the middle of ancient Rome and letting them see what it was like. 0.96

02:39:33.000 That would be fucking wild.

02:39:35.000 I mean, if they could accurately represent what the lifestyle of those people was like back then, I would really want ancient Egypt. 0.97

02:39:45.000 That's the big one to me, but they just don't know enough.

02:39:48.000 I'm just trying to imagine the utility above and beyond a cost-effective way to do tourism or experience things that would otherwise be unaffordable.

02:39:57.000 What is the end goal of it?

02:39:59.000 I think it has to be entertainment-based.

02:40:01.000 Otherwise, people are just going to abandon it.

02:40:03.000 It'd have to be fun.

02:40:04.000 Yeah.

02:40:05.000 And there's a lot of games that are fun.

02:40:08.000 He and I did fencing.

02:40:09.000 We fenced together, which is pretty cool.

02:40:11.000 Yeah.

02:40:12.000 And then there's a boxing game, which is really cool, where you box against this virtual opponent, and you get a good workout, man.

02:40:19.000 And when they punch you, you see a flash of light, like you got hit.

02:40:23.000 Does it seem realistic to you?

02:40:25.000 No, not realistic, but not necessarily realistic, but enough so that it makes it exciting.

02:40:32.000 So like when you put the headphones on and then you're standing in front of this guy and he throws punches, if you move your head, the punches miss you.

02:40:40.000 And if you hit him, you see his head snaps back.

02:40:43.000 And when he hits you, you see a flash of light.

02:40:46.000 And you get a good workout.

02:40:47.000 You really do.

02:40:48.000 Isn't it kind of like the Nintendo Wii?

02:40:49.000 Already did that though?

02:40:50.000 Kind of.

02:40:51.000 Except it's virtual.

02:40:52.000 So you have a headphone on it.

02:40:54.000 And you're looking around the ring.

02:40:55.000 You see the floor.

02:40:57.000 You see the sky.

02:40:58.000 People in the audience are cheering.

02:41:00.000 And then there's this dude who's walking towards you.

02:41:03.000 You know, they don't look totally real, but it's that uncanny valley thing.

02:41:07.000 Eventually they'll look real.

02:41:09.000 Eventually you look over and it's like Andre Ward waiting to beat you up.

02:41:12.000 And you're like, oh my God, this is so crazy.

02:41:14.000 You know, I think as those things get better and better, they're going to be more and more compelling.

02:41:19.000 But virtual reality as a concept has been around for a long time.

02:41:25.000 And people thought it was going to take off, but the technology just wasn't quite ready yet.

02:41:31.000 Where it could look realistic and be really...

02:41:34.000 Just really immersive.

02:41:37.000 And now it is.

02:41:38.000 Now it's better.

02:41:39.000 But not quite.

02:41:40.000 It's not quite yet.

02:41:41.000 Have you seen Ready Player One?

02:41:42.000 Yes.

02:41:43.000 Love that movie.

02:41:44.000 Makes me wonder if it's just going to be like essentially... 0.97

02:41:48.000 You're replicating what you could otherwise, if you were trying to achieve something in real life and then trying to replicate a virtual version of it, and then you're just going to be competing against other people virtually for virtual belongings and virtual success and virtual this, but everyone in reality is just sitting in their apartment fucking...

02:42:10.000 I think that's some version of that is probably inevitable at this point.

02:42:16.000 What is going to be weirder is if we integrate with technology to the point where you're not wearing something, but it's a part of your body, like a Neuralink.

02:42:24.000 Yeah.

02:42:25.000 The thing that's going to be crazy about that is then you're no longer interfacing with some virtual reality headset and playing a game with some other people that are on the cyber world.

02:42:37.000 Now your mind is connected to the cyber world permanently.

02:42:42.000 I don't think humans have the willpower to not just smash the dopamine button.

02:42:47.000 Infinitely.

02:42:48.000 Exactly.

02:42:48.000 If they were presented with it.

02:42:49.000 Like, any of these, like, rat studies that look at what happens when they present them with an opportunity to just, like, press a button and then it hits them with dopamine and they have, like, an orgasm or something.

02:42:59.000 Yep. 0.99

02:42:59.000 Like, do you think humans aren't going to just sit there and fucking... 0.99

02:43:01.000 Hammer it. 1.00

02:43:02.000 Yeah.

02:43:03.000 Yeah, that's a real problem.

02:43:04.000 And when they have virtual sex, when they really do develop some sort of either a haptic feedback suit or some sort of a neural implant that can...

02:43:15.000 You can hijack all of your sensitivity cells and all the skin cells and all the things that are designed to detect, feel, and touch and warmth.

02:43:28.000 They can hijack those and you could feel a woman wrap her legs around you. 1.00

02:43:32.000 You're like, holy shit! 1.00

02:43:34.000 No one's going to avoid that. 1.00

02:43:36.000 You're going to be on it all day long.

02:43:37.000 Why would you want to be alone?

02:43:39.000 What do you want to do?

02:43:40.000 You want to be alone playing checkers?

02:43:41.000 No, you're going to put that thing on. 1.00

02:43:43.000 You're going to fuck this tent. 1.00

02:43:45.000 And you're going to be in a waterbed with great music playing. 1.00

02:43:48.000 It's going to feel amazing.

02:43:49.000 And if it's going to be so good that you cannot detect whether or not it's a simulation.

02:43:56.000 Like, this is one of the weirder things that Elon believes.

02:43:59.000 He believes there's a high likelihood that we are currently in a simulation.

02:44:03.000 And when I said to him, I said, well, with probability theory, and you think about all the planets that there are, and all the potential for advanced civilizations, the potential for advanced life, one day they will create a technology that's unrecognizable from reality.

02:44:20.000 You will develop some sort of a virtual environment that you can't discern whether or not this is physically real or whether or not this is just so super advanced technology that recreates life.

02:44:36.000 And then that's probably the future.

02:44:40.000 Yeah.

02:44:41.000 And do you foresee that as a overly negative thing?

02:44:45.000 I think it just is what it is.

02:44:47.000 You know?

02:44:48.000 Like, if you talk to people about, like, there's a great book that I read that Neil Brennan told me about.

02:44:56.000 What's it called?

02:44:56.000 Amusing Ourselves to Death?

02:44:58.000 Is that what it's called?

02:44:59.000 Yeah.

02:45:00.000 Which is about television in the 80s.

02:45:03.000 It was like during the Reagan administration. 1.00

02:45:05.000 They were talking about how stupid people are getting because of television. 1.00

02:45:08.000 That's the book. 1.00

02:45:09.000 Really good book.

02:45:11.000 And it's really fascinating to look back, you know, all these decades later.

02:45:17.000 1984. And all these decades later to read what they thought about what was happening to people because of television.

02:45:25.000 And that's just fractional compared to the dramatic what's happening now.

02:45:29.000 Yeah, I think it's just happening.

02:45:31.000 I think it just is.

02:45:33.000 And I don't think we're getting away.

02:45:35.000 Yeah.

02:45:36.000 Sketchy, dude.

02:45:37.000 It's sketchy.

02:45:39.000 I don't necessarily think it's good, but whatever it is, it is.

02:45:42.000 Yeah, I don't even know what to make of it, because it's like, I don't know, for the people who very much value achievements in real life and chasing success or doing things that are rewarding, it kind of like shits on that.

02:45:55.000 I think we're the last of the Mohicans, bro. 0.73

02:46:00.000 I think David Goggins never finished...

02:46:05.000 Out December 6th.

02:46:06.000 I think he's the last of the Mohicans. 1.00

02:46:08.000 I think in the future people are just going to be living in virtual.

02:46:12.000 Yeah.

02:46:13.000 I don't know.

02:46:13.000 Unfortunately.

02:46:14.000 But we're here now, my friend.

02:46:15.000 Yeah.

02:46:16.000 And I want to thank you.

02:46:17.000 Thank you for coming on.

02:46:18.000 Thank you for the great content.

02:46:19.000 Your podcast, your show on YouTube is really, really good.

02:46:23.000 I appreciate it.

02:46:23.000 More plates, more dates.

02:46:24.000 It's available on YouTube.

02:46:25.000 I mean, what's your subscribers up to now?

02:46:30.000 1.5 something.

02:46:31.000 Beautiful.

02:46:32.000 Yeah.

02:46:32.000 Nice.

02:46:33.000 But really, really great content.

02:46:35.000 So thanks.

02:46:36.000 No, thank you, man.

02:46:37.000 I really appreciate it.

02:46:38.000 Thanks for having me.

02:46:38.000 My pleasure.

02:46:39.000 We'll do it again.

02:46:39.000 Right on.

02:46:40.000 All right.

02:46:40.000 Thank you, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - December 03, 2022

Joe Rogan Experience #1905 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

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