The Joe Rogan Experience - December 14, 2022


Joe Rogan Experience #1910 - Mark Laita

Topics
advertising manipulation homeless people stories Skid Row in LA Skid Row homelessness and drug addiction Skid Row problems skydiving interviews homelessness and drug addiction genetically altered skin grafts hold promises addiction treatment homelessness and addiction gambling addiction polygamists and pimps cops homeless budget ineffectiveness broken country subscription model bit his tongue gang member videos
Hosted by
Joe Rogan
Guests
Mark Laita
Mentioned
Skid Row Michael Jordan Mike Todd Timmy Soft White Underbelly Lorraine Mark John Emery Whitaker Kobe Bryant Austin Jerome Jamie Joe Rogan Podcast Kevin Donaldson Fillmore Slim Jesus Christ Elon Musk Caroline Kenneth Lynn and 46 more
Joe Rogan Experience #1909 - Stavros Halkias Joe Rogan Experience #1911 - Mark Boal

Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 26 minutes

Words per minute

181.19

Word count

26,472

Sentence count

2,721

Harmful content

Misogyny

29

sentences flagged

Toxicity

241

sentences flagged

Hate speech

27

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, I sit down with the creator of the YouTube show "Soft White Underbelly" to talk about what it's like to be a photographer and how he makes a living by interviewing people who are downcast from society. He talks about how he got into photography, how he deals with the pressures of being a photographer, and what it takes to maintain a healthy mental health in the midst of it all. I hope you enjoy this episode and that it makes you think about how important it is to have a mental health professional in your life. I hope that it gives you some insight into what it means to be an expert at what you do, and that you can use it as a tool to help others do the same. Thank you so much to my friend Mark for coming on the show and sharing his story with us. I really appreciate it and I hope it inspires you to do what you need to do to improve your own mental health and get some perspective on what you can do to make a difference in the world. I know that we all need it. Thanks to Mark for his honesty, and for being vulnerable and being vulnerable with us all. Thank you for letting us know that it's important to be vulnerable and open up about what we can do what we do to help other people do to keep our mental health on the best possible day to day. You're not alone, we all have the ability to do the best we can get the most out of what they can do, no matter where we are in the best way we can, and how we can be. We can do the most we can have the best of what we are given the most beautiful day of our day to do, the most amazing things we can achieve the most meaningful day of their lives. - Thank you, Joe Rogans Podcast - by day, by night, all day, by night all day All day, All day All Day, by Night, All Day by Night by Day, All Night by Night by Night - by Night. by Day by Day By Night, By Day, By Night - By Night - All Day All Day all Day by Nights by Night All Day by Morning, by Day - By Day - All Night, by Nights, By Nights, All By Day By Day By Night by Evening, By Morning, By Any Day by Any Night

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:05.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:00:12.000 Hello, Mark.
00:00:13.000 Hey, Joe.
00:00:14.000 How do you do what you do and maintain any...
00:00:19.000 Mental health?
00:00:20.000 Yeah.
00:00:21.000 Let's just tell everybody, you have the YouTube show Soft White Underbelly, which I found a while back and just watched one video and then I went down the rabbit hole.
00:00:35.000 Today I binged a bunch of them preparing for this.
00:00:39.000 Dude, it's so sad and so heartbreaking.
00:00:46.000 You interview all kinds of people, addicts, prostitutes, Johns, gang members.
00:00:54.000 Why Soft White Underbelly? 0.98
00:00:56.000 Why did you come up with that name?
00:00:58.000 I remember my dad when I was in the 60s, 70s, talking on the phone.
00:01:04.000 I heard that term being used.
00:01:09.000 It's like an analogy for the vulnerable part of whatever you're talking about.
00:01:14.000 I don't hear that term anymore, but I remember it back then.
00:01:17.000 And I always thought it was a cool name.
00:01:18.000 Blue Easter Cult used it as their original name before Blue Easter Cult.
00:01:22.000 So I just...
00:01:23.000 It was a fun name.
00:01:24.000 Makes people wonder what the hell it's all about.
00:01:26.000 Well, it's very appropriate.
00:01:28.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:01:28.000 I think it's fitting for what I'm doing.
00:01:29.000 Completely.
00:01:30.000 How did you get involved in interviewing all of these people that are sort of downcast from society?
00:01:36.000 So I've been an advertising photographer since I was 14 years old, or after high school, really.
00:01:41.000 I went to college for it, but I was always into photography.
00:01:44.000 And then I got into advertising and I did that for decades and decades.
00:01:47.000 Had a great career.
00:01:49.000 And then what happened is, you know, my advertising work was so slick and beautiful and perfect and everything is retouched so it's better than life.
00:01:59.000 And you do that for decades and you get burnt out.
00:02:01.000 And you just get fed up with the perfection and all the aspirational aspects of advertising.
00:02:09.000 And I just wanted something that was real.
00:02:13.000 I recognized that there were things going on in the world that weren't so perfect.
00:02:17.000 And I just felt like my life was out of balance.
00:02:20.000 I didn't want to grow old and have my kids say, What did your dad do?
00:02:25.000 Oh, he shot advertising his whole life.
00:02:27.000 I wanted to do something different.
00:02:28.000 And I've always done these side projects.
00:02:30.000 Even when I was a teenager in Chicago, I was always fascinated with the drunks on Madison Avenue on the west side.
00:02:37.000 You see these guys sleeping on park benches and just with a paper bag and a bottle in their hands.
00:02:42.000 It was such an interesting lifestyle to me.
00:02:45.000 Because I didn't grow up like that.
00:02:46.000 I grew up in a pretty perfect household.
00:02:48.000 Mom and Dad, parents loved me.
00:02:50.000 It was great.
00:02:51.000 But I was fascinated with all that dark stuff.
00:02:53.000 And that continued throughout my career.
00:02:56.000 I was always doing portraits of people like that.
00:03:00.000 I didn't really do much with it until...
00:03:03.000 About 1999, I started working.
00:03:06.000 While I was doing advertising, I would sneak away whenever I had a hole in my schedule, which wasn't often, but over nine or ten years, I went to each of the lower 48 states and started photographing everything that exists in the U.S. Cowboys in Wyoming.
00:03:23.000 Drunken Indians in New Mexico. 1.00
00:03:25.000 Ballerinas in New York City.
00:03:27.000 Repo men in Oklahoma.
00:03:30.000 Auto mechanics in Alabama.
00:03:34.000 Pedophiles all over the country.
00:03:37.000 Polygamists in Utah.
00:03:39.000 The Amish in Pennsylvania.
00:03:40.000 Just everything that kind of fits for...
00:03:42.000 Oh, that's Pennsylvania.
00:03:43.000 They have Amish there.
00:03:44.000 So I would pick that and I'd hunt it down and find it.
00:03:46.000 So I got really good at finding these...
00:03:49.000 There's subcultures that we've all heard about, but you didn't really know if...
00:03:53.000 Some of them are easy to find.
00:03:54.000 Drug addicts are easy to find.
00:03:57.000 But there's other subcultures that I've found that are more difficult to find and certainly difficult to photograph and now really difficult to interview.
00:04:04.000 So I did that book.
00:04:05.000 It came out in 2010. It's called Created Equal.
00:04:09.000 And I was really proud of it.
00:04:10.000 It put my heart and soul into it.
00:04:12.000 But it didn't really...
00:04:15.000 I would sit at a table when somebody's looking at it and they would go, oh, what did he sound like?
00:04:20.000 What did the cowboy sound like?
00:04:22.000 How did he get like this?
00:04:23.000 How did he get this career?
00:04:24.000 What was his childhood like?
00:04:25.000 All these questions.
00:04:27.000 And I honestly didn't know it for each of these 200 portraits in that book.
00:04:33.000 And I realized if I'm going to make this really stick the way I wanted it to, I'm going to have to do it with an interview as a backstory.
00:04:39.000 So it's a portrait, and then I would just do these interviews that might just exist behind the portrait as you're looking at it.
00:04:45.000 And that's how I started.
00:04:47.000 And, you know, I always had studios like on Skid Row, like while I was doing advertising in LA at my LA studio.
00:04:53.000 I'd had another studio down on Skid Row, which was, you know, cheap and, you know, I would just sneak away there on slow days. 0.66
00:05:00.000 And just photograph all the drug addicts, the prostitutes, the transgenders, the mental health, you know, the people that are off, the rockers, everything. 1.00
00:05:11.000 Gang members. 0.83
00:05:12.000 And I love doing it, but I never really did anything with that until I started.
00:05:17.000 Canon came out with a Canon 5D, which is a still camera that did video.
00:05:22.000 And I just was playing around.
00:05:24.000 I never shot video in my life.
00:05:25.000 And I'm like, let me just put this thing on a tripod and interview somebody.
00:05:29.000 And there was this girl, Caroline, who was a heroin addict prostitute down on Skid Row. 0.53
00:05:33.000 And I was like, hey, I got to know her.
00:05:34.000 And I said, hey, would you want to just sit and tell me your life story?
00:05:38.000 And she goes, sure, I'll do it.
00:05:39.000 So she sat down and did this.
00:05:41.000 And it was heartbreaking.
00:05:43.000 Like, Jesus, I just hit a grand slam my first time at bat.
00:05:47.000 Like, a really horrifying story.
00:05:52.000 And she... 1.00
00:05:55.000 So I did that, and I was like, wow, that was amazing.
00:05:58.000 I started doing a few more, and they were all interesting in their own way.
00:06:03.000 Every single one was very different and interesting.
00:06:05.000 I'm like, maybe there's something here.
00:06:08.000 And went through a divorce, went through...
00:06:12.000 I went through a lot of stuff.
00:06:13.000 My mom died, went through a divorce.
00:06:16.000 My advertising industry changed a lot in those years.
00:06:20.000 This was like seven years ago, seven, eight years ago.
00:06:24.000 I gave up my studio and I just kind of didn't know what I was doing with my life.
00:06:29.000 And I had all these storage units for all my studio equipment and my furniture.
00:06:34.000 I was building a house, so I had all my furniture in the house.
00:06:37.000 I had like four or five different storage units around the city.
00:06:39.000 I'm like, let me just consolidate all these into one big space, and maybe I'll have room for a studio up front, and I'll start doing those portraits and those interviews I was doing on Skid Row before.
00:06:50.000 And just see if I enjoy doing that.
00:06:52.000 Because I didn't know what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.
00:06:53.000 I wasn't doing advertising anymore.
00:06:57.000 I didn't know what I was.
00:06:58.000 I was just drifting.
00:07:00.000 And I started doing these and I just loved it.
00:07:02.000 Just loved it.
00:07:03.000 And I started doing them every day.
00:07:04.000 And I've done it pretty much every day for over three years now.
00:07:07.000 What you're doing is...
00:07:09.000 Almost the exact opposite of advertising.
00:07:11.000 It's a reaction to that slick, aspirational...
00:07:16.000 I shot Apple for 10, 12 years and made these products look amazing, right?
00:07:21.000 They had to be perfect.
00:07:23.000 And I'm like, life isn't perfect.
00:07:25.000 Life is messy.
00:07:27.000 Life can be really messed up.
00:07:28.000 And I've longed for that.
00:07:32.000 So that's what this is.
00:07:33.000 I got all these skills, all these chops of how to find these people, how to interact with them, how to find them, how to connect with them, how to get their trust from doing Create Equal, where I did that for 10 years and I was interacting with all kinds of people, from Hell's Angels down to pedophiles,
00:07:49.000 everything.
00:07:49.000 You name it.
00:07:50.000 Everything that exists in the U.S. When I first started, I was really shy.
00:07:54.000 This is going to be really hard.
00:07:55.000 I decided this was my project.
00:07:56.000 This is what I'm going to do.
00:07:58.000 But when I first started, it was like, man, this is not my personality type, to go up to strangers and tell them, you know, I want to photograph you.
00:08:06.000 That was so hard.
00:08:06.000 But now I've gotten so good at it that it's a breeze.
00:08:10.000 You know, I got to a point, I remember early on, I was just like so nervous to do this, to walk up to a stranger in a casino in Las Vegas and say, hey, I think you're interesting.
00:08:20.000 I'd like to photograph you.
00:08:21.000 That was the first one I did.
00:08:23.000 And then By the end, I remember I wanted to photograph the Hells Angels, the motorcycle gang up in Oakland.
00:08:32.000 It's like their main headquarters.
00:08:34.000 I just flew up to Oakland.
00:08:36.000 You can't really arrange that.
00:08:37.000 You can't call them up on the phone and say, hey, I'm a photographer in LA. I want to photograph you guys.
00:08:40.000 That's just not going to happen.
00:08:42.000 So I just flew up there, and it was morning, and I ring their buzzer at their headquarters in Oakland, and no answer.
00:08:53.000 It's like 9.30 in the morning.
00:08:55.000 I ring it again.
00:08:56.000 Nobody answers.
00:08:56.000 I ring it a third time, and somebody comes.
00:08:58.000 This junkyard dog of a biker opens the door and says, What the fuck do you want? 1.00
00:09:05.000 And I'm like, I start telling him, he just slams the door in my face. 1.00
00:09:09.000 He goes, fuck off, and he just slams the door. 1.00
00:09:11.000 Like, that didn't go well. 1.00
00:09:14.000 But I've done this so much now that I'm so good at it that I knew to give him some time, allow him to say no, I'm not going to force, I'm not going to pressure him.
00:09:26.000 Went across the street, there's a Mexican restaurant that was serving breakfast.
00:09:28.000 I got breakfast for a bunch of guys, and I brought it over, and I rang it again, he opens the door, and I had breakfast for him.
00:09:36.000 And eventually they let me in, and we chatted, and I eventually photographed the president, the head of that chapter, Cisco Valderrama and Flash, and this guy's name was Marvin.
00:09:50.000 And it was a great portrait.
00:09:52.000 I'm proud of it.
00:09:52.000 I made that happen because of my ability to just go up to anybody, killers, anybody, and just walk up to him and say, hey, this is what I'd like to do.
00:10:01.000 Did you ever read Hunter Thompson's book on the Hells Angels?
00:10:04.000 No.
00:10:05.000 It's really good.
00:10:06.000 Not bad.
00:10:06.000 That was his breakthrough book.
00:10:08.000 And he was embedded with the Hells Angels and hung around with them for long periods of time.
00:10:14.000 No, it's a hell of a lifestyle.
00:10:15.000 Yeah.
00:10:15.000 And that's sort of where he invented that sort of gonzo journalism aspect.
00:10:19.000 No, I love that kind of...
00:10:24.000 William Volberg is another author that's kind of like that.
00:10:27.000 I love Bill Volberg's work. 0.94
00:10:30.000 Where it's just like you immerse yourself into these really fucked up dangerous situations. 0.97
00:10:35.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:10:36.000 And you come out with gold or you get killed or shot or knifed or whatever. 0.59
00:10:40.000 That is a fear of yours. 0.94
00:10:41.000 For sure.
00:10:42.000 Yeah.
00:10:42.000 I've been robbed so many times on Skid Row.
00:10:44.000 I came around the corner once and there's a gun to my face and it's like, fuck. 1.00
00:10:48.000 But you still do it? 1.00
00:10:50.000 Yeah, I still do it.
00:10:51.000 Did you feel when you were doing advertising...
00:10:54.000 Advertising is so strange, right?
00:10:55.000 Because it doesn't bother me.
00:10:59.000 I have this sort of relaxed attitude on certain things.
00:11:04.000 Like, well, that's not going to trick me.
00:11:06.000 Some guy's talking about the hollow earth.
00:11:08.000 Well, that's not going to trick me.
00:11:09.000 That doesn't bother me.
00:11:10.000 But when you think about the overall impact of what it's doing...
00:11:17.000 It's giving people – it's sort of like the – part of the big problem that people have with social media is it creates these unrealistic expectations and then it also has people comparing their life to what they see in advertising.
00:11:31.000 Yeah, advertising and social media are kind of following the same.
00:11:34.000 This is the main concern with advertising of pharmaceutical drugs.
00:11:38.000 Because it's all people having the best time.
00:11:41.000 Like at a picnic, running through a wheat field, and this could be you.
00:11:46.000 Why isn't this you right now?
00:11:48.000 This could be you if you just do this thing, or take this thing, or buy this thing.
00:11:51.000 That's the manipulation of advertising.
00:11:53.000 And what did that feel like when you were a part of that?
00:11:57.000 You were acutely aware of it.
00:11:59.000 I'm part of it.
00:12:00.000 I'm part of the...
00:12:02.000 That process.
00:12:03.000 And I hated the feeling of that after a while.
00:12:05.000 Initially, it was great.
00:12:06.000 When I first started doing Apple, I was so proud of myself.
00:12:08.000 And I'm still proud of my career.
00:12:10.000 I love what I did in advertising, and I'm so proud of that work.
00:12:14.000 But I have to admit, as I got older, it started feeling really like I'm tricking people.
00:12:23.000 I'm tricking people.
00:12:24.000 I'm not cool with that.
00:12:25.000 It didn't sit well with me at the end of the day.
00:12:27.000 I'm just like, so that's how I made my money?
00:12:30.000 That's how I spent my life on this planet?
00:12:35.000 And I just wanted to do something that mattered.
00:12:37.000 Do you think that advertising should be regulated or do you think we should leave that up to people or educate people on the effects of it the same way people are trying to educate people on the effects of Of social media and what it does to people's mental health when you compare these unrealistic lives to yours?
00:12:56.000 I mean, it comes down to greed.
00:12:58.000 It's human greed.
00:13:00.000 Corporate greed.
00:13:01.000 They want what they want, and they're going to get it by creating these ads that are just better than life.
00:13:08.000 You know, just so amazing.
00:13:09.000 Your life would be perfect if you drive this car, if you buy this phone, this...
00:13:16.000 Take this drug, whatever.
00:13:18.000 I even wonder if in this day and age that's necessary.
00:13:22.000 I feel like today, more than ever, because of social media, because of people that actually review things and talk about things on social media, honestly, without bias and without being paid to do so, you can do stuff And sell stuff,
00:13:41.000 and it just has to be good.
00:13:43.000 Like, look at Teslas, for instance.
00:13:45.000 They don't even advertise.
00:13:46.000 They don't.
00:13:47.000 And it's like the number one car in America.
00:13:49.000 Yeah.
00:13:50.000 It's just because it's great.
00:13:51.000 It's that simple.
00:13:52.000 Obviously, it's connected to Elon Musk, who's this enormous figure, but...
00:13:58.000 It's a much smarter way to market a product.
00:14:01.000 It's not deceptive.
00:14:02.000 Elon could come out with a running shoe or a...
00:14:07.000 Anything.
00:14:08.000 Yeah.
00:14:08.000 A drink, and people would drink it.
00:14:11.000 When you first started doing these videos, did you have to figure out a way to balance your own mental health with interviewing these people? 0.98
00:14:21.000 Because I gotta tell you, like, I watched a bunch of videos today in the gym while I was working out, and I felt like shit. 0.98
00:14:27.000 Yeah. 0.96
00:14:28.000 And I hope these feel good after our workout.
00:14:30.000 It affects people in different ways.
00:14:32.000 Some people make, oh my god, my problems are not so bad.
00:14:34.000 My life is pretty great.
00:14:35.000 I've heard that many times.
00:14:36.000 I've heard that more often, but I get what you're saying, because I'm immersed in it.
00:14:41.000 What you see on my YouTube channel is 1,200, maybe 1,300 videos.
00:14:45.000 I've done over 5,000.
00:14:48.000 Because not everything I shoot, like with you, you're shooting...
00:14:51.000 You're doing interviews with Elon Musk and Dave Chappelle and Huberman, and they're great.
00:14:57.000 You know they're going to be great.
00:14:59.000 You don't need to do eight or ten in a day like I do.
00:15:03.000 I'll do six, seven, eight, nine, ten in a day hoping to get one.
00:15:06.000 Or two.
00:15:07.000 But even the ones that you have where the people can barely communicate, they're almost more disturbing.
00:15:13.000 Like I watched a couple today of homeless people where, you know, there was this one woman, she was missing one of her toes and, you know, that woman and she's just the movement and the mental health.
00:15:28.000 The obvious signs that she's very troubled and probably on some drugs and it's just...
00:15:34.000 Yeah.
00:15:35.000 Do you have children?
00:15:36.000 I do.
00:15:36.000 I have two daughters, 19 and 22. Yeah, so that to me was like the hearing the stories of how they were all abused sexually and physically when they were children and...
00:15:51.000 And seeing what it leads to.
00:15:53.000 Right.
00:15:53.000 So I'm aware that these things go on.
00:15:56.000 Yeah.
00:15:56.000 I've been down on Skid Row for 12 years now, maybe 13 years.
00:16:02.000 And so I know what's going on.
00:16:03.000 Do you live down there?
00:16:04.000 No, no, no, no, no.
00:16:05.000 I live in...
00:16:07.000 Pacific Palisades, which is like the exact opposite.
00:16:09.000 Yes.
00:16:09.000 I live in Bel Air basically, but then I go down to the worst.
00:16:12.000 I go from the worst part of town to the best part of town.
00:16:14.000 Yeah, it's a big, it's a drastic change from one to the other. 0.82
00:16:20.000 But even when I was doing this before I started Soft White Underbelly, I was aware that this crap is going on to these people when they were kids. 0.74
00:16:29.000 Yeah.
00:16:30.000 And when I decided, you know, I gave up advertising and wanted to do something that was meaningful to me, I looked around, like, that's a problem that needs to be addressed.
00:16:40.000 And, you know, people say, oh, your work's exploitive.
00:16:42.000 You're exploiting these poor drug addicts.
00:16:44.000 Like, I understand there's an exploitive element to it.
00:16:47.000 All photography has that, you know, element to it.
00:16:50.000 But let's say I never did these videos.
00:16:53.000 Let's say we just pretend these problems don't exist.
00:16:58.000 It's all gonna continue and Caroline's kids are gonna get molested by the babysitter or by the uncle or by whoever and it's gonna repeat the pattern over and over and over. 0.99
00:17:08.000 So I figured by putting out these You know, it's disguised as entertainment, but what it really is is if you watch a dozen of them, you're going to learn, like, fuck, we need to protect our kids. 0.99
00:17:18.000 We need to watch our kids. 0.97
00:17:19.000 We need to, you know, how many fathers were absent in these kids' lives that I do?
00:17:25.000 Like, like, like 1% of them had fathers that were in their lives.
00:17:30.000 Right.
00:17:31.000 Like, where are the dads?
00:17:32.000 What are they doing that's so important that they can't raise their own kid? 1.00
00:17:36.000 Well, they're probably fucked up, too. 0.99
00:17:38.000 Well, that's where it goes. 1.00
00:17:39.000 The never-ending cycle.
00:17:40.000 It's cycle after cycle.
00:17:42.000 Have you interviewed anyone and then come back years later and they straighten their life out?
00:17:47.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:17:47.000 That's happened.
00:17:48.000 Yeah?
00:17:48.000 Who?
00:17:49.000 I've done 5,000 and it's literally like...
00:17:55.000 Four that I know of.
00:17:57.000 And what has that been like?
00:17:58.000 Can you give me an example?
00:18:04.000 And even though they've done it doesn't mean they didn't break down and relapse today.
00:18:10.000 That happens all the time.
00:18:11.000 Just as they got clean doesn't mean they're going to stay clean.
00:18:13.000 But the ones that I believe in the most, because some people told me they were clean, but I don't buy it.
00:18:23.000 But the ones that I know are clean, they just did it by themselves.
00:18:27.000 They just hold themselves up and they figured out a way to wean themselves and change their routine and change their environment and eventually broke through.
00:18:36.000 But I think you need that self-worth.
00:18:39.000 Like you and I have the self-worth to go, you know, I deserve better.
00:18:41.000 I deserve to drive a nice car.
00:18:43.000 I deserve to live in a great house in a great city and have a great job.
00:18:46.000 And I deserve all these things and have a great woman in my life and all these things.
00:18:50.000 If you have the self-worth, you're going to accept and build those things in your life.
00:18:55.000 These people, especially the ones on Skid Row, the drug addicts, their self-worth is broken.
00:19:00.000 It's broken.
00:19:01.000 And they don't believe they deserve anything better than to live in a cardboard box or a tent on the sidewalk.
00:19:08.000 In the rain, in the winter.
00:19:10.000 And they're doing the drug just to escape the pain of what happened to them when they were seven years old with their dad or uncle or brother or whoever.
00:19:18.000 And it's like, you can't fix a childhood.
00:19:22.000 How do you fix a childhood?
00:19:23.000 When you see a place like Skid Row and you see all these people that you've interviewed Do you try to formulate some way that these people can be helped, like that we can diminish this problem?
00:19:38.000 When I first really got serious, like three and a half years ago is when I started, really just, I was down there every day doing eight interviews a day.
00:19:49.000 I would see somebody who was like, oh my god, your life would be great if you just got clean.
00:19:54.000 I was naive.
00:19:55.000 I was naive.
00:19:58.000 I start helping them, and we're going to get you to rehab.
00:20:01.000 I spent so much money.
00:20:03.000 I've wasted so much money.
00:20:05.000 My own hard-earned money, I just put towards somebody that had no intention of really ever doing anything.
00:20:12.000 Well, it seems like it has to come from the individual.
00:20:15.000 It can't come from...
00:20:15.000 It has to.
00:20:16.000 That's what I've learned.
00:20:17.000 You can't help people by saying, hey, you've got to do this.
00:20:20.000 No, I see all these comments on my videos.
00:20:21.000 Mark, you didn't help this person.
00:20:23.000 I can't change their self-worth.
00:20:27.000 You'd have to be with them 24 hours a day.
00:20:28.000 You'd have to be with them 24 hours a day.
00:20:34.000 150,000 at least a year to house them, to feed them, to transport them, to get them therapy, all the drugs, all the mental health drugs, everything they're going to need, doctors, all that stuff.
00:20:46.000 It's a lot of money for one person, and it may not even work.
00:20:50.000 So I've got two kids of my own.
00:20:51.000 I've got my own life.
00:20:52.000 I've got bills of my own.
00:20:54.000 I'm doing a YouTube channel, and I'm shooting eight videos a day.
00:20:57.000 When am I going to sit there and take somebody under my wing and save them?
00:21:01.000 Right.
00:21:02.000 You know, these people are on their phones, on their sofa, texting, leaving a comment saying, Mark, you didn't help this person?
00:21:10.000 I'm the busiest person I know.
00:21:12.000 I haven't taken a day off in over three years.
00:21:15.000 Christmas, birthday, everything.
00:21:16.000 I work every single day.
00:21:18.000 Either shooting or editing.
00:21:19.000 And these people are sitting on their phones telling me what to do. 0.99
00:21:23.000 They can't get off their ass and maybe, you know, clear off their bank account to save somebody. 0.99
00:21:29.000 But even that probably wouldn't do it. 1.00
00:21:31.000 And still wouldn't work.
00:21:33.000 What do you think could be done?
00:21:37.000 Well, I mean, it's such a...
00:21:40.000 Complicated problem.
00:21:41.000 You look at the homelessness problem.
00:21:43.000 You have it a little bit here in Austin, but in LA it's really bad.
00:21:45.000 Let's explain Skid Row to people.
00:21:47.000 Skid Row is a neighborhood.
00:21:50.000 It's probably, I don't know how many square blocks, but maybe it's, it goes from like roughly, because it spreads out a lot, and it's spread out since I've been there.
00:22:01.000 But let's call it like from 4th or 5th Street to 8th Street.
00:22:07.000 It's just east of downtown LA. And downtown LA is cool.
00:22:10.000 It's nice.
00:22:12.000 Just east of downtown.
00:22:14.000 I know.
00:22:14.000 I know.
00:22:15.000 But it looks like Austin.
00:22:17.000 I wouldn't recommend people visit.
00:22:19.000 No, no.
00:22:19.000 It's not a place.
00:22:20.000 No, you wouldn't go to downtown.
00:22:21.000 If you want to go to LA, you don't go to...
00:22:22.000 Every other town, you go downtown.
00:22:24.000 Right.
00:22:24.000 Every other...
00:22:25.000 I'm from Chicago.
00:22:25.000 Yeah, I was going to say Chicago.
00:22:27.000 You spend the whole time...
00:22:27.000 If you go to visit Chicago, you spend the whole time downtown.
00:22:30.000 Yeah.
00:22:30.000 In LA, you should not go downtown.
00:22:32.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
00:22:33.000 That's exactly right.
00:22:35.000 But Skid Row is this neighborhood just east of downtown.
00:22:40.000 Yeah, Jamie's got an image of it.
00:22:43.000 Yeah, there it is.
00:22:44.000 Let's find some photos of it, because it's kind of an enormous swath of land that's been completely abandoned, it seems like.
00:22:52.000 But like this girl smoking right here? 1.00
00:22:54.000 Yeah.
00:22:54.000 That goes on every block.
00:22:56.000 The cops will roll by.
00:22:58.000 Nobody's stopping her.
00:22:59.000 She's smoking meth.
00:23:00.000 She's smoking meth or crack or whatever.
00:23:03.000 Fentanyl.
00:23:04.000 Yeah.
00:23:05.000 And they're living like that.
00:23:07.000 Let's find a video of it so you can see the scale of it because it's pretty intense.
00:23:13.000 When you see people...
00:23:16.000 I found out about Skid Row when we were filming Fear Factor downtown.
00:23:20.000 We filmed a lot of episodes of Fear Factor downtown.
00:23:23.000 And this was...
00:23:26.000 Early 2000s.
00:23:28.000 And it was nothing like it is now.
00:23:31.000 I'm sure now it's quite a bit more.
00:23:32.000 But even back then, it was like, how is this one area isolated?
00:23:38.000 Like, how is this one area just filled with homeless people and drug addicts and criminals?
00:23:44.000 And I really didn't know until I watched this Netflix series on the Jerome Hotel.
00:23:49.000 And it was about that woman who died in a water tank.
00:23:54.000 You aware of that story?
00:23:55.000 I don't, but I've heard everything.
00:23:57.000 It's a woman who got off her meds, and there was a video of her in an elevator, and it looked like someone was following her, and she was looking out of the elevator.
00:24:06.000 And then the woman turned up missing, and her family went to look for her.
00:24:10.000 And what it turned out was that's a crime scene.
00:24:13.000 I'm sorry, did I say the Jerome?
00:24:15.000 Cecil.
00:24:15.000 Where's the Jerome?
00:24:16.000 Is that down there, too?
00:24:17.000 I don't know the Jerome, but the Cecil's notorious.
00:24:21.000 That's the one I met.
00:24:22.000 The Cecil is a hotel...
00:24:23.000 I've heard so many stories.
00:24:25.000 My favorite or the most horrifying is so many people used to get thrown off the roof of the Cecil Hotel that the little chicken restaurant on the corner used to have a jar where you could put your money in and place bets on what floor the person would have been pushed out of.
00:24:45.000 Jesus Christ.
00:24:46.000 Whether it's the roof, the 13th floor, the 12th floor.
00:24:48.000 How many?
00:24:50.000 Oh, I've heard like hundreds, I think.
00:24:54.000 I mean, stories get exaggerated over the years.
00:24:58.000 So this documentary was about this woman and she had gotten off her medication. 0.91
00:25:03.000 At first, it was like a crime-murder mystery.
00:25:05.000 And then as it goes on, you realize, oh, no, this lady had just escaped from her family and got off her meds, and she was paranoid schizophrenic.
00:25:14.000 None of these stories are as simple as, oh, I just got shot, or I just got stabbed.
00:25:19.000 There's mental health that's mixed in.
00:25:23.000 You asked me what the problem is with all this.
00:25:25.000 So you see homelessness.
00:25:26.000 You see all these homeless people on the street in L.A. or in San Francisco or Seattle or Portland or Vancouver.
00:25:33.000 You see it in a lot of cities.
00:25:35.000 It's really bad in L.A. and San Francisco and the West Coast for some reason has a ton of it.
00:25:41.000 So, oh, like what L.A. is doing, you put them up in housing.
00:25:45.000 Problem solved, right?
00:25:46.000 And we're done.
00:25:47.000 Not really.
00:25:48.000 No, because you peel back the layer.
00:25:50.000 The top layer of that, underneath the homelessness, is drug addiction.
00:25:54.000 Pretty much 100% across the board.
00:25:56.000 None of these people are down and out and just like, oh my God, I'm homeless.
00:25:59.000 That doesn't happen.
00:26:00.000 They're all drug addicts. 0.72
00:26:01.000 And even when they tell you they're clean, they're still lying.
00:26:04.000 So you peel back the drug addiction layer, and what are you going to do?
00:26:07.000 You put them all in rehab, which is going to be tremendously expensive, and it's not going to work all the time.
00:26:11.000 That would be part of the solution, but it's not going to be the solution.
00:26:15.000 So you peel back the layer of drug addiction, you've got mental health.
00:26:18.000 They all have mental health issues.
00:26:21.000 And you can't just magically fix their mental health.
00:26:23.000 The damage was done when they were little kids, when they were 5, 6, 7, 8 years old.
00:26:29.000 With whether it's neglect or abuse, you know, physical abuse, sexual abuse, whatever.
00:26:36.000 Just terrible parenting.
00:26:38.000 Terrible role models.
00:26:39.000 And they don't learn this.
00:26:40.000 Let's say you got them off the streets.
00:26:43.000 Let's say you fix the drug addiction.
00:26:48.000 You get them therapy for years and you fix the mental health issues somewhat, but they still don't know how to...
00:26:52.000 Do all the things that we all know how to do.
00:26:55.000 Like build trust in others.
00:26:58.000 Gain the trust of others.
00:27:00.000 How to handle money.
00:27:03.000 Delayed gratification.
00:27:05.000 They have no concept of that.
00:27:07.000 Everything is just like, how do I make a quick buck right now?
00:27:10.000 That's the only thing they know. 0.99
00:27:12.000 If they have a job interview on Monday, like if I had something like that or a meeting to go to, I would know how to show up and I'm going to kick ass on Monday. 0.98
00:27:22.000 These people don't know how to do anything like that. 0.97
00:27:24.000 They probably won't even show up.
00:27:27.000 They don't know how to be on time.
00:27:28.000 They don't know how to do anything in order to advance their lives.
00:27:33.000 I think it boils down to their self-worth is so broken that they don't believe they deserve anything better.
00:27:40.000 So if you don't believe you deserve anything better, you could be handed a million dollars.
00:27:44.000 Here's a winning lottery ticket.
00:27:45.000 Go cash it in.
00:27:45.000 You've got a million dollars.
00:27:47.000 They're going to fuck it up as fast as you can see it. 0.99
00:27:50.000 As fast as you can imagine. 0.94
00:27:52.000 Have you had any drug addicts or sad stories like that in your own friendship circle?
00:28:00.000 No.
00:28:01.000 No?
00:28:01.000 No, like all my friends are clean as a whistle.
00:28:04.000 I've never smoked pot.
00:28:06.000 Really?
00:28:07.000 Never smoked pot.
00:28:09.000 Nothing, huh?
00:28:09.000 A little alcohol every now and then?
00:28:11.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:28:12.000 I mean, I haven't lately, but I'm not a drinker.
00:28:15.000 I don't have a problem with drinking.
00:28:17.000 My dad used to say to me, he still does, he goes, you don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't gamble, you don't chase women.
00:28:22.000 What do you do?
00:28:22.000 Everybody does something.
00:28:24.000 I'm like, I don't know.
00:28:27.000 Yeah, I don't know.
00:28:27.000 It's a sign of being raised well, maybe.
00:28:30.000 Yeah, no, I was raised really well.
00:28:31.000 You don't need the escape.
00:28:32.000 I mean, the way my mom raised me was like, I can't imagine a better...
00:28:37.000 I really think the problem...
00:28:39.000 So you start going back to peeling the layers back.
00:28:41.000 You go back to...
00:28:43.000 Where did I leave it off? 0.97
00:28:45.000 So you got the mental health problems.
00:28:47.000 You peel back that layer, and then you got the broken family.
00:28:50.000 In a lot of these stories, dad was absent, or dad was in prison, mom's on drugs, sister's a hoe, brother was in a gang. 0.98
00:28:58.000 What do you think she's going to turn... 0.98
00:28:59.000 Stepfather was abusive.
00:29:00.000 Yeah.
00:29:01.000 Boyfriends were abusive.
00:29:02.000 So the families are broken.
00:29:03.000 Yeah.
00:29:03.000 So you peel back that layer, and why is the family broken?
00:29:07.000 Well, they're growing up in a community that there's no opportunities, there's no education, there's no role models, there's no nothing.
00:29:13.000 It's just like figure out how to survive at 12 years old.
00:29:16.000 Yeah.
00:29:19.000 And they're looking around at what everyone else is doing. 0.99
00:29:21.000 Everyone else is a con artist or a hustler. 0.96
00:29:23.000 I've got to figure out my hustle. 1.00
00:29:24.000 And if you're an attractive female, you're going to become a hoe. 1.00
00:29:26.000 And if you're a dude, you're going to become a drug dealer or a gang member, and you're going to rob people or do whatever. 0.96
00:29:32.000 And that's what happens.
00:29:33.000 Those are extremes, but to some extent that happens in a lot of communities.
00:29:37.000 Growing up in a good childhood, in a good family, and then being exposed to these people over and over and over again, what kind of an effect has that had on you personally?
00:29:51.000 Initially, I thought I was super resilient.
00:29:54.000 I'm strong.
00:29:55.000 Not physically strong, but I'm strong mentally.
00:29:58.000 I can handle anything.
00:30:01.000 I was playing around with big money and big jobs and big campaigns, and it was very, very stressful at times.
00:30:07.000 But I handled it all.
00:30:08.000 I was cool with it.
00:30:10.000 But when I started doing this project, I recognized it.
00:30:15.000 I knew from Create Equal, the book I worked on, What it's like to deal with these kind of people, because I interacted with a lot of them.
00:30:21.000 So I knew getting into it, I was going to get robbed, I was going to deal with hustlers and con artists and thieves and liars.
00:30:28.000 I knew that.
00:30:30.000 But I dove in, and that's like...
00:30:34.000 Barrier to entry.
00:30:35.000 Like people who watch my channel, like, oh, I want to do what Mark's doing. 0.98
00:30:38.000 Good fucking luck. 0.98
00:30:39.000 Like, every day I want to quit. 1.00
00:30:40.000 Well, you're really good at it, too.
00:30:42.000 You have a very non-judgmental way of communicating with people that allows them to open up.
00:30:47.000 It's very comforting.
00:30:49.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:30:50.000 You seem like a very nice guy, and when you're talking to these people...
00:30:53.000 You know, you just, you're very flat, you know?
00:30:56.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99
00:30:57.000 Like, I can interview the Ku Klux Klan or a pimp or a pedophile. 0.96
00:31:02.000 Yeah. 0.81
00:31:02.000 You know, I interviewed a guy named Marshall on my channel. 0.81
00:31:05.000 He's an older guy.
00:31:07.000 He's probably in his 70s.
00:31:09.000 And he was having intercourse with his daughter from 6 until 14. And her best friend, I think.
00:31:16.000 And he eventually did prison time for it, but he's free now and he's living in this...
00:31:20.000 You know, he's living in Florida.
00:31:22.000 And I interviewed him, and I just, I'm talking to him as if I'm talking to you right now.
00:31:26.000 Like, I could be interviewing or interacting with, it's not about how I interview, it's how I interact with others.
00:31:30.000 And he was open about this?
00:31:31.000 Yeah.
00:31:32.000 I've interviewed a bunch of those guys.
00:31:33.000 Did he have shame?
00:31:36.000 He didn't seem to, but he said some of the right words.
00:31:39.000 But it wasn't like he broke down, like if I had done something like that, I'd be, I'd be crying, man.
00:31:45.000 Yeah.
00:31:45.000 I wouldn't be, you couldn't.
00:31:47.000 Did that happen to him when he was younger?
00:31:50.000 I asked him about that and he said, I suspect something might have and who knows if that's the truth or what, I don't know, probably did.
00:31:57.000 He didn't recall anything, but he suspected that something happened.
00:32:00.000 But you do see, go ahead.
00:32:02.000 But my point is that whether I'm interviewing the Queen of England or a homeless drug addict on Skid Row, I treat them the exact same way. 0.99
00:32:10.000 Nothing in my behavior would change whether I'm interviewing a pedophile that's having sex with his daughter or the president.
00:32:18.000 Yeah, well, it comes across, and you have a very good way of getting these people to relax and communicate. 0.57
00:32:25.000 I realized this.
00:32:26.000 Before I started this project, I knew that—because I saw it during my advertising career.
00:32:33.000 You deal with all kinds of people, and I saw over the course of my life—I've been around now long enough to see that a lot of people just love to open up with me. 0.87
00:32:43.000 And tell me shit they shouldn't be telling me. 0.80
00:32:46.000 I'm a stranger. 1.00
00:32:47.000 You just met me 20 minutes ago, but you're telling me all this...
00:32:50.000 There's something about my personality that makes people just relax and trust me and just tell me all kinds of stuff.
00:32:57.000 I don't even know what it is.
00:32:59.000 I'm not judgmental.
00:33:01.000 I know that.
00:33:02.000 Even the pedophiles, I don't condone what he did.
00:33:06.000 I don't approve it in any way.
00:33:08.000 I think it's horrifying. 1.00
00:33:10.000 But my job right then is not to condemn him and say, you're so fucked up. 0.99
00:33:14.000 It's just like, let me just hear your story, because I'll bet you there's something we can learn from it. 0.99
00:33:18.000 There's something that we could understand better that maybe we can apply to figure out how to prevent this in the future.
00:33:25.000 Do you think that's possible?
00:33:28.000 With all the interviews that you've done and this overwhelming number of fucked up people that you've interacted with, Skid Row's grown considerably just since I've been there.
00:33:41.000 When I first went there was the early 2000s.
00:33:44.000 It's much, much bigger now.
00:33:45.000 It's a much bigger problem.
00:33:46.000 It's all over the city.
00:33:47.000 Yeah.
00:33:47.000 How does that genie get put back in the bottle?
00:33:51.000 I mean, how does one ever...
00:33:53.000 That's why my channel is not an intervention-type show where I'm trying to fix everybody and patch them up and put them back into the real world.
00:33:59.000 I can't do that.
00:34:00.000 I'm one person.
00:34:04.000 I believe the solution is...
00:34:08.000 To show people...
00:34:10.000 I'm putting these videos out there so everyone can see this is how this happens.
00:34:15.000 Let's not do this anymore.
00:34:18.000 Let's figure out another solution.
00:34:19.000 Perhaps if dad stayed in the family...
00:34:24.000 And the parenting was like something that would benefit the kid and not cause them trauma.
00:34:32.000 Right.
00:34:32.000 That would be great.
00:34:33.000 But the odds of that happening from one of your videos are very small.
00:34:36.000 Very small.
00:34:37.000 So does it feel futile sometimes?
00:34:40.000 Oh yeah, for sure.
00:34:40.000 For sure, but...
00:34:42.000 I'm the most, you know, it's ironic that I'm doing this really, really dark project because I'm the most positive, hopeful person you'll ever meet.
00:34:49.000 Still?
00:34:50.000 Yeah, I'm a Pollyanna.
00:34:51.000 I don't think that'll ever change.
00:34:52.000 And that hasn't had any effect on your own personal relationships, the way you view human beings?
00:34:59.000 I'm aware of how often people are con artists and hustlers and how dishonest people can be.
00:35:04.000 Because I never encountered that to the extent that I do now.
00:35:07.000 Whereas when I go down to Skid Row, it's a different world.
00:35:11.000 And literally everybody is trying to get my wallet.
00:35:16.000 Trying to get whatever I've got.
00:35:19.000 Right.
00:35:19.000 Camera equipment.
00:35:20.000 You name it.
00:35:21.000 Yeah.
00:35:22.000 Everything.
00:35:23.000 And it's like, to be surrounded by that many hustlers and con artists and thieves, it wears on you.
00:35:30.000 And just recently, I exercise a lot.
00:35:32.000 So every morning I'm working out for like an hour and a half, two hours.
00:35:35.000 And it never wore on me.
00:35:37.000 I don't get sore.
00:35:38.000 I'm in great shape. 0.97
00:35:39.000 Just in the last three to four months, I'm like, God damn, I'm sore. 0.99
00:35:44.000 What the fuck is going on? 0.99
00:35:47.000 I'm not doing anything different. 0.99
00:35:48.000 I'm not eating anything different.
00:35:49.000 What is going on that my body is just hurting?
00:35:53.000 And I suspect what it is, it's the mental toll after three and a half years of doing this that's finally catching up.
00:36:02.000 I would imagine.
00:36:03.000 I mean, I think it's inescapable.
00:36:05.000 I heard Gabor Mate say on your show, I think it was on your show, he said...
00:36:10.000 That whatever happens to you mentally manifests physically.
00:36:14.000 Yeah.
00:36:15.000 And it's like, it makes perfect sense.
00:36:17.000 But I mean, mentally, it hasn't really made me crazy.
00:36:20.000 I'm not...
00:36:21.000 If I'm hanging out with my friends who have nothing to do with this world that I'm interviewing...
00:36:26.000 The relationships like it always was.
00:36:28.000 You know, I just spent Thanksgiving with my ex-wife and kids and my best friend and it was just like old times.
00:36:33.000 It's like 20 years ago.
00:36:34.000 Nothing changed.
00:36:36.000 But I think physically, mentally, like somehow it's affecting me now.
00:36:42.000 I don't know how it could not.
00:36:43.000 Do you wonder how long you can keep doing this for me?
00:36:46.000 How many drug addict interviews does the world need?
00:36:49.000 I don't think we need anymore.
00:36:51.000 If you want to watch some, there's probably 500 on my channel.
00:36:55.000 You can get all you need.
00:36:56.000 So I think enough's enough.
00:36:59.000 I'll probably phase out of that.
00:37:00.000 I'm already starting to do that.
00:37:01.000 What are you going to do now?
00:37:03.000 Just more...
00:37:04.000 Like yesterday, I interviewed a guy.
00:37:08.000 Mental health issues are interesting.
00:37:09.000 Sexual fetishes are interesting. 0.84
00:37:11.000 Sex workers are not as traumatic as... 0.99
00:37:13.000 They're not as pathetic and traumatic as the drug addict stories. 0.99
00:37:18.000 Yeah, the most positive one I saw from you today was a guy who had a foot fetish. 0.90
00:37:21.000 Yeah, some of them are lighter.
00:37:23.000 It was kind of funny.
00:37:24.000 I interviewed a guy here yesterday in Austin who was an oilfield worker down in Odessa, but he moved further north.
00:37:33.000 He wanted to be a skydiving instructor.
00:37:36.000 Young kid, I think he's 28, I think.
00:37:40.000 And he was doing his 25th jump, I think he said.
00:37:44.000 And two of his shoots got tangled up.
00:37:47.000 You have a backup shoot.
00:37:49.000 First one didn't open up correctly, so he did the second one.
00:37:52.000 I think they both opened up at the same time.
00:37:55.000 And they got tangled up.
00:37:58.000 Held him for a while and then he fell 4,000 feet, hit a cornfield, and survived.
00:38:06.000 The parachute slowed him down a little?
00:38:08.000 Is that what happened?
00:38:09.000 He doesn't remember because he blacked out.
00:38:11.000 Oh my god.
00:38:12.000 He blacked out and he hit the ground, broke everything on the right side of his body.
00:38:19.000 Yeah, but he's alive.
00:38:20.000 And he still wants to jump?
00:38:22.000 Yeah, I asked him at the end, I go, do you regret skydiving?
00:38:26.000 He said, no, I'd like to still do it right now.
00:38:28.000 They won't let me.
00:38:29.000 My friend Brian, his dad worked with this lady who was a skydiver, and she was always trying to get him to go skydiving.
00:38:36.000 Let's go skydiving, let's go skydiving.
00:38:38.000 And then one day he went to the office and she wasn't there.
00:38:41.000 And he found out that she died skydiving.
00:38:44.000 I mean, to me, it's such a senseless way to die.
00:38:46.000 It's a crazy thing to do.
00:38:48.000 No, I mean, he talked about how the adrenaline.
00:38:51.000 Yeah.
00:38:54.000 He became addicted to the adrenaline rush.
00:38:56.000 Yeah.
00:38:57.000 He says it's not a drug addiction.
00:38:59.000 It's not a sex addiction.
00:39:00.000 It's an adrenaline addiction.
00:39:02.000 Yeah.
00:39:05.000 So stories like that are what I'm looking to do.
00:39:07.000 Not that.
00:39:07.000 That's pretty...
00:39:08.000 How did you find this guy?
00:39:10.000 He emailed me.
00:39:11.000 See, I get people emailing me.
00:39:12.000 I get hundreds of emails a day.
00:39:13.000 Right.
00:39:14.000 Do you go through them yourself?
00:39:16.000 Well, I just hired somebody to help me do that.
00:39:17.000 Hmm.
00:39:20.000 But...
00:39:22.000 So you're trying to move away from all the addicts.
00:39:24.000 I'm trying to move away from just Skid Row drug addicts.
00:39:26.000 It's like, we don't need any more.
00:39:27.000 Right.
00:39:28.000 It gets stale after a while.
00:39:29.000 Yeah.
00:39:29.000 I mean, I'll do some once in a while.
00:39:31.000 I mean, some of these people are magnificent speakers.
00:39:34.000 They're fascinating to listen to.
00:39:35.000 Some of them, I found so many just miraculous people down there.
00:39:40.000 There's great people down there. 0.98
00:39:41.000 I mean, it's not like they're all a bunch of drug-addicted losers. 0.89
00:39:44.000 Some of these people are just like you and me. 0.94
00:39:46.000 They just happened to get caught up in some Quicksand that they just cannot get out of.
00:39:50.000 It's so sad to listen to some of these stories when you see that's a great person.
00:39:56.000 They're stuck in quicksand and you can't pull them out, even if you want to.
00:40:01.000 If you had all the money in the world, you couldn't pull them out.
00:40:04.000 When I was 23, I moved to New York and I started hanging out at this pool hall.
00:40:10.000 And I met a lot of drug addicts.
00:40:12.000 And I had known a few people with drug problems from my hometown.
00:40:16.000 A few people with drinking problems that couldn't stop drinking.
00:40:19.000 But I'd never been like really close to someone who had like a legitimate drug problem.
00:40:23.000 And I had a friend named Johnny and he had a crack problem.
00:40:27.000 And he was a great guy.
00:40:30.000 A really intelligent guy.
00:40:32.000 Play musical instruments, could do complex math in his head.
00:40:36.000 You could have a calculator and you could say like 500 times 50 minus 30 divided by 3 and he could give you the number.
00:40:45.000 It was amazing.
00:40:47.000 And you could do it with a calculator in front of him and he would be as fast as the calculator.
00:40:52.000 He was a brilliant, brilliant guy and he was a pool hustler.
00:40:56.000 And I met him when he was homeless and he was, you know, sleeping in these 24-hour pool halls or he would get a, you know, a bed in these flop houses and he was just addicted to drugs and he, you know, he had mental health problems and he would self-medicate and I would, 0.93
00:41:15.000 you know, I drove him to get drugs on multiple occasions and I'd try to get him to get off of them and And he would be on this rollercoaster ride where he would smoke crack and then he would need to come down so he would get alcohol and he would go and drink these 40 ounces of Old English and just try to bring himself down from whatever the fuck he was on. 0.94
00:41:36.000 And then I moved out here.
00:41:39.000 He came out to visit me once.
00:41:42.000 And I thought we were just going to hang out and go places and play pool.
00:41:45.000 But he was coming out to try to kick heroin.
00:41:47.000 And when he came out, he just stayed in the bedroom for like a week. 0.99
00:41:52.000 He was just all fucked up. 0.99
00:41:53.000 He was just sick for a week. 0.99
00:41:55.000 And then finally, at the end of the week, he came out of it.
00:41:58.000 And, you know, he hadn't had any heroin system in a week.
00:42:00.000 And he was starting to come clean and feel better.
00:42:02.000 And that was the last time I saw him.
00:42:06.000 And then the next time I talked to him, I think I saw him one time after that.
00:42:11.000 But, you know, he had kind of resumed his—I had moved to Hollywood, and I was on a television show, and we were still friends.
00:42:17.000 But he had kind of resumed his life of being homeless and drug addiction, and then I got a call from another friend that he died.
00:42:25.000 And that was around a little bit after 2000, and it was— It was such a helpless feeling because I knew him as a human and he was so funny and he's so smart and so interesting.
00:42:38.000 No, some of the greatest minds, the most charismatic, most interesting people ever, super intelligent and talented people are living on the streets, addicted to drugs.
00:42:49.000 Because it almost goes hand in hand.
00:42:51.000 You get these great minds that are so creative and they're also so self-destructive.
00:42:58.000 Yeah, I don't know why those two things go together, but so oftentimes creativity goes along with drug addiction.
00:43:04.000 Look at all the dead people in your lobby, all those pictures.
00:43:07.000 Yes, yes.
00:43:08.000 They all died at 27. Mug shots of the rock stars and stuff, yeah.
00:43:13.000 It's...
00:43:15.000 It's very confusing when you don't have that problem.
00:43:19.000 When you're like, why don't you just do this?
00:43:21.000 I would just do this. 0.97
00:43:22.000 And at the time when I met him, like, now I smoke pot, I occasionally do mushrooms, and I don't fuck with anything that's good. 0.93
00:43:32.000 You know, but back then I didn't do anything.
00:43:36.000 So for me it was very strange to be like clean and sober and trying to like, I was like focused on my life.
00:43:44.000 You're not prepared because you don't have the knowledge of what he'll do for that drug. 1.00
00:43:49.000 Also, in my mind, the people that did that were losers and idiots. 1.00
00:43:55.000 And now here's this guy who's clearly brilliant and a beautiful person. 0.99
00:43:59.000 He was one of my favorite human beings.
00:44:01.000 He was my best friend.
00:44:03.000 And he was homeless.
00:44:05.000 And it was so strange for me to have grown up with a nice family in a nice place where things weren't bad, you know, middle class.
00:44:15.000 Everything was nice.
00:44:16.000 And then for me to be around a person like that who, you know, spent his time trying to rob people in pool games, pretending that he couldn't play, it was like an art form for him. 0.98
00:44:29.000 He would just pretend he was terrible and he was an overweight guy, so he looked like a bumbling loser.
00:44:34.000 And, you know, he would wind up getting a bunch of money from people, and then he would spend it on drugs.
00:44:40.000 And it was such a helpless feeling to watch someone who you loved and cared about Who just couldn't stop they just couldn't get their life in or they kept sabotaging their life like no matter what happened like whatever his His sense of self-worth Whatever the thing was inside of him.
00:45:01.000 He just couldn't help himself He just couldn't stop that he would get off of it for a little while decide he was gonna clean up and then dive right back into it Yeah, it's so heartbreaking to watch.
00:45:14.000 He was the closest that I'd ever been to a person.
00:45:19.000 Everyone else that I knew that I had problems was like my friend's cousin or this guy that I worked with.
00:45:25.000 They weren't people that I was really close with.
00:45:27.000 And with him, we spent so much time together.
00:45:29.000 And to watch him just could not escape. 0.98
00:45:33.000 Whatever the gravity, the magnetic pull, the addiction, the thing to just like constantly trying to get fucked up and escape. 0.93
00:45:44.000 Yeah, usually they're trying to escape something that happened in their childhood or some lack of love. 0.93
00:45:49.000 Yeah, something.
00:45:50.000 Well, there's mental health in his family, too.
00:45:53.000 That's a big part.
00:45:54.000 I suspect, you know, there's a lot of these people that are schizophrenic or they have these issues and they have children and it's genetically transferred.
00:46:01.000 Absolutely.
00:46:02.000 Yeah.
00:46:02.000 And so I think there's nature, there's nurture, there's a lot of things that are...
00:46:06.000 It's not just like, oh, you were molested when you were sick, so that's why you're a drug addict.
00:46:10.000 It's more complex than that, I think.
00:46:12.000 Have you met any of these people that have gone through any sort of psychedelic therapy?
00:46:18.000 No.
00:46:19.000 Have you?
00:46:20.000 I've heard about it, but I've not encountered anyone who's tried that and done that.
00:46:24.000 It's not really available to these people.
00:46:26.000 No, not in Skid Row.
00:46:27.000 Yeah.
00:46:28.000 And when you're...
00:46:30.000 You've got to have the motivation, first off, to want to get clean and use that as a technique to do it.
00:46:36.000 And I'm hopeful that somebody, some doctor somewhere, I think University of Chicago is doing something with skin grafts that help with drug addiction.
00:46:45.000 Skin grafts?
00:46:45.000 Yeah.
00:46:46.000 How so?
00:46:47.000 I don't know all the details, but it's just like they're doing studies right now, I think.
00:46:51.000 But I'm hopeful that somebody is going to discover something that will cure that drive to fix.
00:47:00.000 How do skin grafts work?
00:47:01.000 I don't know.
00:47:02.000 It'll come on the news if it's successful.
00:47:04.000 See if you can find what...
00:47:04.000 Yeah, Jamie's on that.
00:47:05.000 University of Chicago.
00:47:07.000 Skin grafts to cure drug addiction.
00:47:09.000 That's a... 0.99
00:47:11.000 It is so fast how fucking smart some people are. 0.98
00:47:14.000 Science is amazing. 0.98
00:47:16.000 Some way around it.
00:47:17.000 CRISPR modified skin grafts to treat addiction.
00:47:19.000 The skin cells are then re-implanted to the patient through a skin graft that acts as a so-called bioengine.
00:47:25.000 Producing these molecules throughout the life of the graft.
00:47:28.000 In pre-clinical studies, the engineered skin grafts protected against drug addiction and overdose in animal models.
00:47:36.000 Whoa.
00:47:37.000 Yeah, I think they're doing human studies.
00:47:38.000 So it's modified skin grafts.
00:47:43.000 Interesting.
00:47:43.000 You know, and then there's a...
00:47:45.000 Here it is.
00:47:47.000 It's Chicago.
00:47:49.000 Genetically altered skin grafts hold promises addiction treatment.
00:47:52.000 The treatment has been shown to work in mice, and the researchers hope to begin human trials next year.
00:47:57.000 If it proves itself there, be a valuable addition to a growing but still inadequate arsenal of addiction treatments.
00:48:02.000 I mean, it's one of the biggest problems we have in our culture.
00:48:06.000 I mean, look at our country.
00:48:07.000 It's horrifying.
00:48:09.000 You come to LA, it's just so embarrassing.
00:48:12.000 Austin, too.
00:48:13.000 Austin's cleaned it up quite a bit, but there's still some spots, and there's plenty of homeless people that are on 6th Street and down that area.
00:48:21.000 It's... 0.95
00:48:22.000 It's really, really fucking sad. 0.91
00:48:25.000 Because also, people define themselves by their lowest moment often. 0.92
00:48:30.000 And when you have been a person that sleeps on the street, it's that lack of self-worth, this identifying yourself as a complete and total failure, it's very difficult to escape that, especially when you compare yourself To these people that,
00:48:46.000 you know, they show up for work at their tech job and they have this normal existence.
00:48:50.000 And they're all looking down on you and treating you with disrespect.
00:48:54.000 Right.
00:48:54.000 And you're living in the streets.
00:48:55.000 It's cold.
00:48:56.000 It's rainy.
00:48:56.000 It's whatever.
00:48:57.000 You're obviously worthless. 1.00
00:48:58.000 Yes. 0.99
00:48:58.000 There's nobody that's reinforcing the fact that you have any worth at all. 0.99
00:49:03.000 Right.
00:49:04.000 It's just going to take you down further. 0.96
00:49:05.000 And it's probably come from your childhood of being treated as worthless and abused.
00:49:10.000 Yeah, but you asked me, like, how I can go down to Skid Row and do this.
00:49:14.000 I've done it every day for over three years.
00:49:16.000 I think the fact that I am not tempted by these things.
00:49:20.000 Like, you could put crack, fentanyl, and crystal meth right here, and they would sit here for three weeks, and I wouldn't even touch them.
00:49:26.000 What about four weeks?
00:49:27.000 Four weeks is when I give it.
00:49:29.000 I just They'll be gone in the fourth week.
00:49:32.000 My fear about all those things, like I've never tried cocaine, I've never tried amphetamines, and one of the reasons why is it seems like people love them.
00:49:39.000 You know, that's part of the problem is I think the thrill of whatever it is that those things give people.
00:49:46.000 I think one of the reasons my channel is so popular is because there are a hell of a lot of people who are using some of these drugs and being functional in the real world.
00:49:54.000 I think that's true, but I also think it's just fascinating.
00:49:58.000 I mean, I don't use those things and I'm fascinated by your channel.
00:50:01.000 I mean, it's just the human condition is very fascinating to people because we recognize all these elements in ourselves, maybe to a lesser degree or maybe...
00:50:10.000 Maybe you only have an addiction to pornography, or maybe you only have an addiction to gambling, but you see a person who's hooked on meth.
00:50:18.000 They're all the same.
00:50:19.000 And it's kind of, there's parallels.
00:50:21.000 Absolutely.
00:50:22.000 Yeah.
00:50:23.000 There was one addict, a gambler, who turned into a heroin addict.
00:50:28.000 Wow.
00:50:28.000 He was a big-time gambler, big-time, in New York City.
00:50:31.000 Yeah.
00:50:32.000 I forget his name.
00:50:33.000 I interviewed him this summer.
00:50:34.000 And he switched his gambling addiction to a heroin addiction.
00:50:39.000 He was like...
00:50:40.000 Whew! 0.99
00:50:40.000 The gambling one, it's wild. 0.99
00:50:42.000 Gambling is fascinating to me.
00:50:44.000 That's another one that I encountered when I was in the pool halls.
00:50:47.000 People that were just absolutely just captured by gambling.
00:50:52.000 And I never thought of gambling as being an addiction.
00:50:55.000 I thought of gambling as being just a Weird weakness that people do to escape their life and they just get but then I saw the actual like chemical response these people have to winning and losing and Chasing money and this this this constant So it becomes their whole life is trying to win a bet and trying to play and trying to recover from a bad bet and then trying to avoid people they owe money to and There's so many addictions out there.
00:51:24.000 There's so many.
00:51:24.000 Whether it's sex or shopping or gambling or eating or laziness or...
00:51:29.000 Yeah, procrastination.
00:51:31.000 Heroin drinking.
00:51:32.000 Yeah, even exercise, which is a great addiction.
00:51:34.000 That's my addiction, but...
00:51:35.000 Yeah, it's a good one.
00:51:36.000 It's not killing me.
00:51:37.000 I don't think there's anything wrong with that one.
00:51:39.000 That one seems to actually improve the quality of your life, but it has characteristics of impulsiveness.
00:51:45.000 Yeah, when I go to Gold's Gym every morning at 5.30...
00:51:47.000 I'll bet you more than half of the people that are there, it's the same crew every morning.
00:51:52.000 We all know each other.
00:51:53.000 I'll bet you half of them are former addicts.
00:51:55.000 Really?
00:51:56.000 Of some sort.
00:51:57.000 Well, that's a lot of people that get into running, marathon runners and triathletes and ultra runners.
00:52:03.000 They substitute this very positive addiction.
00:52:07.000 The addiction of overcoming and just pushing your body.
00:52:12.000 Humans are wound up.
00:52:14.000 I know I am.
00:52:17.000 I'm never going to run a marathon.
00:52:18.000 It's not my thing.
00:52:19.000 But you see people who are running marathons.
00:52:21.000 I'm just like, why?
00:52:23.000 Why would you run 26 miles?
00:52:25.000 Everything's going to hurt after that.
00:52:31.000 But we have this drive to do something extreme, it seems.
00:52:35.000 Call it self-destruction.
00:52:36.000 I don't know what you want to call it.
00:52:37.000 Self-sabotage, maybe.
00:52:38.000 But so many of them are former alcoholics.
00:52:43.000 And they put that aside and they found this new obsession.
00:52:46.000 You can't just stop drinking and be like, I'm cool now.
00:52:49.000 I don't drink anymore.
00:52:50.000 It's like you need to find something to replace that.
00:52:52.000 Yeah.
00:52:53.000 Yeah.
00:52:54.000 And that's what people, they realize that eventually.
00:52:57.000 I mean, I know so many people that went to Alcoholics Anonymous and then they became hooked on coffee and cigarettes.
00:53:02.000 And the coffee and cigarettes, they said, this is okay.
00:53:05.000 Yeah, well, that's not as bad.
00:53:20.000 I've had three studios down on Skid Row, but the first one I had for three years and I gave it up.
00:53:26.000 I had to mess up my life with the divorce and other stuff.
00:53:28.000 Then I had another one and got rid of that one, but the third one I've had now for almost four years.
00:53:35.000 I had a friend of mine who realized my channel is what I'm doing now.
00:53:39.000 She's known me for a long time.
00:53:40.000 She goes, I remember driving with you through LA. We're going to a restaurant.
00:53:44.000 And you saw some homeless guy begging on the street corner, hassling you for money, and you said under your breath, just get a job.
00:53:51.000 Oh, boy.
00:53:52.000 Isn't that crazy?
00:53:53.000 Yeah.
00:53:54.000 Get a job.
00:53:54.000 Do you want some coffee?
00:53:55.000 No, I'm good.
00:53:55.000 Thank you.
00:53:56.000 That used to be me.
00:53:57.000 Yeah, no, I think it's a lot of us.
00:53:59.000 Yeah.
00:54:00.000 I still say it.
00:54:01.000 Sometimes these guys come at me, and they just, every day of the year, they're coming at me for free handouts.
00:54:06.000 Yeah.
00:54:07.000 I mean, I give away, I hate to tell you how much money I give out.
00:54:10.000 Every single day of the year, I'm giving between $2,000 and $3,000.
00:54:15.000 Really?
00:54:16.000 Just giving out money.
00:54:17.000 Wow. 1.00
00:54:17.000 Not like fucking Santa Claus. 1.00
00:54:19.000 I know what you're saying. 0.99
00:54:19.000 But like, sometimes it's paying interviewees, sometimes it's paying the person who brought me the interviewee, sometimes it's The people who keep it quiet outside my studio door, sometimes it's, you know, I'm a square white dude. 0.99
00:54:32.000 I go into South Central to, you know, I interview a lot of the prostitutes on Figueroa Street, which is not Skid Row. 0.98
00:54:38.000 It's South Central LA, very different neighborhood, but equally dangerous, probably more dangerous, in fact.
00:54:45.000 I used to go down there and like, I'm worried about getting killed.
00:54:48.000 People get killed there every day.
00:54:50.000 You know, gangs are thick.
00:54:52.000 And they see a white guy, I'm either a cop, I'm either an undercover cop, or I'm a trick.
00:54:57.000 And if I'm a trick, that means you can rob me.
00:55:00.000 It's like open season.
00:55:02.000 I got a wallet full of money that I'm looking to spend on a girl, but they're going to hustle me or con me or rob me. 0.99
00:55:06.000 Right.
00:55:08.000 And the way that I can continue to do this almost three and a half years now and do it fairly safely is by spreading so much goodwill.
00:55:19.000 Like, I'm generous with these people I interview, and I'm generous with the pimps, and I'm generous with the...
00:55:24.000 You know, the gangs that control the neighborhoods or whatever I have to do in order to go down there safely and not get hassled.
00:55:31.000 Yeah.
00:55:32.000 And especially on Skid Row, I've handed out so much over the years that it's just, I'm like, I won't tell you what they call me, but it's a positive thing.
00:55:45.000 Because I'm like Santa Claus down there.
00:55:47.000 Yeah.
00:55:51.000 Yeah, you've got to get out of this.
00:55:52.000 You can't keep doing this.
00:55:54.000 No, no, no.
00:55:55.000 I mean, the human struggle is fascinating.
00:55:58.000 It's not just drug addicts.
00:56:00.000 Part of the reason I'm just doing drug addicts is because I'm in L.A. and Skid Row is right here.
00:56:03.000 If I don't think about it, I'll just go to Skid Row and I'll get some interviews.
00:56:07.000 So now I'm making a serious effort to not do that.
00:56:10.000 Have you thought about escaping L.A.? Oh, yeah.
00:56:14.000 I've been all over the country.
00:56:15.000 You know, for Create Equal, I went to each of the lower 48 states.
00:56:18.000 So, I mean, I just came back from New Orleans.
00:56:19.000 What has created the book?
00:56:21.000 That's the book I did of American Portraits.
00:56:22.000 It was really the template for Soft White Underbelly. 0.66
00:56:25.000 It's out of print now, so don't look for it.
00:56:27.000 It's really hard to find.
00:56:28.000 I think the last time I saw it, it was like $1,000, a used copy.
00:56:31.000 But maybe somebody will do a reprint of it one day.
00:56:33.000 Because, God, I get emails every day of the year, people wanting to buy that book.
00:56:37.000 If it came out tomorrow, it would sell out.
00:56:39.000 Some publisher should do it.
00:56:43.000 But I've been to New Orleans.
00:56:44.000 I've been to Tampa several times.
00:56:46.000 I've been to Kentucky and West Virginia many times.
00:56:50.000 The Appalachias?
00:56:51.000 Yeah, Appalachia's amazing.
00:56:52.000 Coal miners? 1.00
00:56:53.000 Coal miners and just, I love hillbillies. 0.99
00:56:55.000 Did you ever see the Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia? 0.99
00:56:58.000 Oh yeah, yeah.
00:56:58.000 I interviewed Mamie White.
00:56:59.000 Did you really?
00:57:00.000 Yeah, Jessica's sister.
00:57:02.000 Wow.
00:57:02.000 She's a trip.
00:57:04.000 Boy, that whole family's a trip.
00:57:05.000 Yeah.
00:57:06.000 Yeah.
00:57:07.000 Oh, that's right.
00:57:08.000 Yeah.
00:57:08.000 I saw that series.
00:57:09.000 This is Create Equal.
00:57:10.000 They're all diptychs.
00:57:11.000 They're all pairs of images.
00:57:13.000 So I've got a fur trapper and a woman on the Upper East Side of New York with a fur coat. 0.83
00:57:17.000 Wow.
00:57:17.000 And they're not meant to be point...
00:57:20.000 They're just juxtapositions of interesting...
00:57:22.000 Lady with his little dog.
00:57:24.000 She's holding up.
00:57:25.000 Oh, my goodness.
00:57:27.000 Wow.
00:57:28.000 Wow.
00:57:29.000 Wow. 0.99
00:57:30.000 Find the polygamists and the pimp. 1.00
00:57:34.000 That's my favorite. 0.97
00:57:38.000 There's the Klan.
00:57:42.000 Right there, top right.
00:57:43.000 Oh no, right there, that one.
00:57:46.000 These are polygamists in Utah on the left and a Detroit pimp and his girls. 0.96
00:57:54.000 What is it like interviewing pimps?
00:57:57.000 They're very braggadocious.
00:57:59.000 They're very full of themselves.
00:58:00.000 You really won't get the truth.
00:58:02.000 You really won't get...
00:58:03.000 A lot of people I interview, they break down and they tell me the honest truth of what they're feeling and what they experience as kids.
00:58:12.000 These guys are all focused on, I want to look very cool.
00:58:16.000 So they're kind of very focused on their image.
00:58:19.000 Right, and how they're coming across.
00:58:21.000 How they're coming across, yeah.
00:58:22.000 Did you ever watch any of those documentaries on Pimps, like Pimps up, hose down?
00:58:25.000 I know all those guys.
00:58:26.000 They went to Kenny Ridd's birthday party.
00:58:27.000 Did you really?
00:58:28.000 Yeah.
00:58:28.000 I'm like part of the Klan.
00:58:30.000 Jesus, what was that like?
00:58:32.000 I mean, they're cool with me.
00:58:33.000 They love me because I treat them nicely and they...
00:58:37.000 I'm like part of the family now.
00:58:38.000 I'm this square white guy that's like friends with all the pimps.
00:58:41.000 I knew him from Chicago.
00:58:42.000 I knew Bishop Don Magic Wand from Chicago.
00:58:44.000 Did you really?
00:58:44.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:58:45.000 Wow.
00:58:46.000 He's probably the most famous pimp ever.
00:58:48.000 He's the most famous pimp ever.
00:58:49.000 Yeah, well, probably the most famous because he's been in movies with Snoop.
00:58:55.000 Yeah.
00:58:57.000 But Fillmore Slim?
00:59:00.000 Yeah.
00:59:01.000 Fillmore Slim I interviewed.
00:59:02.000 I've done almost all of the really big name ones.
00:59:07.000 But I'm just fascinated by that lifestyle.
00:59:09.000 Not the new age pimps.
00:59:11.000 Most of the new age pimps are just gang members that found a new hustle.
00:59:15.000 And they're wearing jeans and t-shirts.
00:59:18.000 But the old school pimps from the 70s and 80s that are just dressed to kill and driving these custom Cadillacs or Lincolns or Rolls Royces.
00:59:26.000 And they're all about the show.
00:59:27.000 And they've got three girls, five girls in fur coats and You know, the girls were sexy, they dressed well, the dudes were out of this world.
00:59:35.000 Yeah, I went to the Players' Ball down in Atlanta.
00:59:38.000 Oh boy.
00:59:38.000 A couple years ago.
00:59:39.000 What is that like?
00:59:42.000 It's a lot of people showing off is what it is.
00:59:44.000 It's not my scene.
00:59:45.000 But that's the culture.
00:59:46.000 That's the culture.
00:59:47.000 You've got to understand. 0.99
00:59:48.000 What people don't understand, what white people don't understand about that whole subculture, they love to hate pimps. 0.99
00:59:55.000 We all hate pimps. 0.98
00:59:57.000 No one wants to see a woman taken advantage of. 0.98
00:59:59.000 Nobody wants that.
01:00:02.000 Except maybe some pimps.
01:00:04.000 But what they don't understand is these guys, the women that they are managing, This will get a lot of negative comments on YouTube.
01:00:16.000 But the women are just trying to survive. 1.00
01:00:24.000 And they figured out this is a way that I can make money.
01:00:26.000 But they don't know how to do it well.
01:00:27.000 They don't know how to manage their money.
01:00:29.000 If they have money, they spend it.
01:00:30.000 It's all gone.
01:00:31.000 And they end up broke every night and they're just like, they're spinning their wheels, going nowhere.
01:00:36.000 So a pimp will step in and like, let me handle your money. 0.91
01:00:38.000 You give me all your money and I'm going to take care of you.
01:00:41.000 We're going to save some for your future and I'm going to keep some of it and we're going to live in style and you're going to work for me.
01:00:48.000 You're going to be one of my stable.
01:00:52.000 So he provides some benefits and security and guidance, but when they break up, it's rare that the girl gets anything.
01:01:00.000 And it's always a horrible ending.
01:01:02.000 It's usually a horrible ending, yeah.
01:01:04.000 When the pimp goes to jail sometimes.
01:01:05.000 But the girls never end up with a story where like, oh yeah, and then I got my money and I went off to college.
01:01:10.000 That never happens.
01:01:11.000 Yeah.
01:01:12.000 But the pimp does provide a lifestyle for the time when she is doing that that is better than what she was doing without him.
01:01:20.000 And you've interviewed people that have been open about murdering people, too.
01:01:24.000 Yeah, I've interviewed a lot of people that have done that.
01:01:26.000 You know, I'll interview people.
01:01:28.000 I could do a whole YouTube channel on what happens after the interviews that I do.
01:01:33.000 Really?
01:01:33.000 Do a lot of people get in trouble?
01:01:35.000 No, no, no.
01:01:36.000 Nobody's ever gotten in trouble.
01:01:37.000 The cops have never come after anybody.
01:01:39.000 Really?
01:01:39.000 I've done all these interviews and the cops have never approached me about anyone I've interviewed.
01:01:43.000 Isn't that kind of crazy?
01:01:44.000 It's crazy to me.
01:01:45.000 But I think, you know, I know the cops watch because they'll roll by and say, hey, who are you posting today?
01:01:48.000 So they watch all the time.
01:01:50.000 I think the cops enjoy watching because the people that they're arresting are always lying to them.
01:01:56.000 They're never telling the truth.
01:01:57.000 Oh, yeah, I was robbing that liquor store, and I'm like, yeah, I'm sorry, I was guilty.
01:02:00.000 They're never getting that.
01:02:02.000 But when I interview people, I say, yeah, I robbed a liquor store, and I got away with it, and I did this, and I robbed a jewelry store, and I shot the guard in the shoulder, and I got away with it.
01:02:12.000 They're getting to hear the story told a very, very different way than the way they hear it when they book somebody.
01:02:18.000 Do you interview cops as well?
01:02:19.000 I would love to, but...
01:02:22.000 I've only interviewed a couple of retired cops.
01:02:24.000 And they're great stories.
01:02:26.000 Great storytellers and great stories.
01:02:28.000 Perhaps my favorite video on my channel is Mike Dowd, who's a...
01:02:30.000 Yes, I know Mike.
01:02:31.000 I've had him on the podcast.
01:02:32.000 Mike's the best.
01:02:33.000 That documentary. 1.00
01:02:35.000 Fuck. 1.00
01:02:36.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:02:37.000 What is it?
01:02:37.000 The 7-5?
01:02:38.000 The 7-5.
01:02:39.000 Yeah.
01:02:39.000 It's an amazing documentary.
01:02:41.000 And it's just all about this young, idealistic cop who gets...
01:02:46.000 Tell me that's not a movie.
01:02:49.000 It's screaming to be made.
01:02:50.000 Yeah.
01:02:50.000 I mean, well, the documentary is fantastic.
01:02:52.000 But yeah, an actual movie about it.
01:02:54.000 He just got indoctrinated into the world of corruption right from the beginning. 0.99
01:02:59.000 He witnessed a murder and was told to shut the fuck up. 0.98
01:03:02.000 When he came to my studio, he approached me and asked me if I'd be interested in doing the interview. 0.98
01:03:05.000 And I said, yeah, sure, I'd love to.
01:03:07.000 And we were talking as he was driving up from Orange County to me.
01:03:11.000 He lives, I think, in New York and Florida, but he was in Orange County for something, so he was driving up.
01:03:15.000 We're talking on the phone, and I'm listening to the way he talks.
01:03:18.000 I'm like, Mike, this is the way I'd love my videos to go.
01:03:23.000 You're a great conversationalist.
01:03:25.000 You're probably the best conversationalist I've ever heard.
01:03:27.000 And that's why you're so successful.
01:03:29.000 One of the reasons you're so successful.
01:03:30.000 But I'm not.
01:03:31.000 I'm just a photographer.
01:03:33.000 And all I'm doing with these interviews is trying to provide a little backstory that my photographs can't provide.
01:03:39.000 So when Mike was driving up, he's talking to me on the phone.
01:03:42.000 I'm like, he's such a great speaker.
01:03:44.000 And I love listening to him.
01:03:46.000 Even when he's just talking about what time he's going to be there.
01:03:49.000 His voice and the way he talks is great.
01:03:51.000 So New York.
01:03:52.000 And I said, Mike, let me run something by you.
01:03:54.000 And this is what I love to do.
01:03:55.000 I wish every video on my channel was like this.
01:03:58.000 I said, could you do this whole talk where you tell your entire story without me saying a single word?
01:04:04.000 He goes, oh yeah, no problem.
01:04:06.000 I can do that.
01:04:06.000 And I'm like, let's try it.
01:04:09.000 So he came in and he did the exact...
01:04:11.000 I didn't make a single noise.
01:04:11.000 I said thank you at the very end.
01:04:12.000 And that was it.
01:04:13.000 And that's the way I love...
01:04:14.000 Those are my best interviews.
01:04:16.000 I don't say a word.
01:04:18.000 Well, he's a perfect candidate for that.
01:04:19.000 He's the best.
01:04:20.000 And I've had some even drug addicts that do it.
01:04:22.000 And I've had other people do it.
01:04:24.000 And very often what happens is I'll ask them my typical questions are like, where are you from?
01:04:28.000 What was your family like?
01:04:30.000 And sometimes they just take the ball and run with it.
01:04:32.000 And then they do the whole thing on their own and I don't say another word.
01:04:34.000 So that's almost the same thing.
01:04:36.000 And that's the way I love it.
01:04:37.000 I'm not looking to have a conversation like you and I are having right now.
01:04:40.000 I'm not good at that anyway.
01:04:41.000 That's not my strength.
01:04:42.000 My strength is the photograph.
01:04:44.000 The reason why I asked you about cops is I feel about cops the same way I'm feeling about you, but even to more extreme, that they're exposed to things they cannot unsee, and the pressure and the stress of that is so, so overwhelming.
01:05:01.000 And also, they're thought of as the enemy, and they're not appreciated, and the risks that they take are not taken into consideration, and the stress and the PTSD that they almost all have.
01:05:11.000 All.
01:05:12.000 Every one of those cops has seen videos of a cop pulling someone over for a routine traffic stop and getting gunned down.
01:05:19.000 They've all seen that, and they know that that's a possibility.
01:05:21.000 Every time they pull up to a car that has tinted windows, they have no idea what's going on.
01:05:26.000 No, after doing what I'm doing, which is not as dangerous as what the cops are doing, because they're clearly trying to get somebody and put them in jail or prison, I'm just trying to give them money for an interview.
01:05:36.000 So my danger is not as high as theirs, but...
01:05:39.000 I can relate to how dangerous their life is because every single person they approach is potentially going to shoot them, run, do something. 0.93
01:05:48.000 Or they're mentally ill and they're going to just do something crazy. 0.96
01:05:51.000 I follow a few.
01:05:53.000 There's police-related Instagram pages that sort of highlight that, that are really well done.
01:05:59.000 One of them is police posts and faces of Rampart is another one.
01:06:04.000 And it's these cops that post these videos, and it's educational.
01:06:11.000 First of all, it's educational to other police officers, because a lot of them, they talk about what went wrong here, situational awareness, why this officer got in trouble, what you should do, and how this officer handled this in an incompetent way,
01:06:26.000 or you should never allow something to escalate to this place.
01:06:31.000 But a lot of it is just you are forced to look at what they experience on an everyday basis where everyone they're talking to is lying to them.
01:06:43.000 Everyone they're talking to has a...
01:06:45.000 And then they also develop this horrible cynicism about human beings and everyone they pull over.
01:06:51.000 They just get so overwhelmed from decades of this job.
01:06:55.000 Yeah.
01:06:56.000 Cops are so underappreciated, especially right now.
01:07:00.000 It's terrible.
01:07:01.000 I say it all the time and people get mad at me all the time.
01:07:04.000 I'm like, listen man, I know cops.
01:07:05.000 Because of my martial arts background, I grew up with cops.
01:07:08.000 I was around cops from the moment I was a young teenager all throughout my adult life because of martial arts.
01:07:15.000 Because so many cops train in martial arts to protect themselves.
01:07:19.000 And they're good people for the most part, like all people.
01:07:22.000 Most people are good people for the most part, but good people that are forced into jobs that have horrific pressures attached to them and horrific consequences if anything goes wrong.
01:07:34.000 And paid very little.
01:07:35.000 Yes, and they're under just unbelievable stress and they make terrible errors because of that stress.
01:07:41.000 And then someone gets a cell phone video of that, and they post someone planting a gun or doing this, and then everyone thinks all cops do that.
01:07:50.000 No, and you cannot shoot the wrong guy.
01:07:53.000 Right.
01:07:53.000 You cannot ever risk doing that.
01:07:56.000 Yes.
01:07:56.000 I watched a horrible video the other day.
01:07:58.000 So they're shooting at you.
01:08:01.000 But you can't really just shoot back because what if you hit a kid?
01:08:05.000 Right.
01:08:05.000 Well, that was what I saw.
01:08:06.000 There was a horrible video of a grandson, this very troubled grandson who pulled the knife on his grandfather.
01:08:14.000 And while the cops were there, he went to stab the grandfather and the cops opened fire on the kid and shot the grandfather too.
01:08:21.000 Killed both of them.
01:08:22.000 And I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ.
01:08:24.000 And in the police post, this was all about, you know, understanding about accuracy and when to shoot and When to intervene and it's sort of a step-by-step breakdown for other officers so they can sort of look at this.
01:08:37.000 There's a great video on my channel with a retired cop named Kevin, Kevin Donaldson.
01:08:43.000 It's a great story about PTSD of being a cop and what the aftermath of all that is.
01:08:49.000 I can't even imagine.
01:08:51.000 What their minds must be like, especially someone who works in a horrible neighborhood where you're constantly dealing with that.
01:08:58.000 And the things that they see, like they're constantly seeing murder, constantly seeing car accidents, constantly seeing overdose, constantly seeing physical abuse, sexual abuse, rape, torture, you name it.
01:09:11.000 And you're married and you come home to your wife and you're like, how was your day, honey?
01:09:14.000 Yeah, and you're in Simi Valley with your kids just trying to stay calm and then, you know, you hear fuck the police and you're like, okay. 0.66
01:09:22.000 You know, it's a horrible. 0.99
01:09:23.000 Yeah, horrible job. 0.98
01:09:25.000 It's a yeah, and any support for them always gets like shit on But I think about them the same way I'm thinking about you I think prolonged exposure to the most horrific elements of society is Got we you know, 0.96
01:09:42.000 we sort of formulate our idea what the world is based on what we've encountered and And, you know, if you've encountered nothing but a beautiful neighborhood and nice families and everybody's friendly and you go to the football game and everybody cheers, yay! 0.86
01:09:56.000 You know, this is life for you.
01:09:57.000 But if you're experiencing what you're experiencing, you're talking to people on Skid Row on a day-in, day-out basis, like, what does that affect?
01:10:04.000 Like, how are your dreams?
01:10:06.000 Do you have nightmares?
01:10:07.000 I don't remember my dreams.
01:10:08.000 I sleep really well.
01:10:10.000 But I'll tell you this.
01:10:12.000 I call this project a crash course in empathy.
01:10:16.000 Because when I first started, like I said, I would look at these people like, just get a job. 0.99
01:10:21.000 A bunch of lazy losers that won't get a job. 0.98
01:10:24.000 And then after hearing story after story after story, I see like, oh, now I get it. 0.99
01:10:31.000 People are sort of like...
01:10:33.000 You can't.
01:10:34.000 When people are developing and growing, there's certain things that happen to them that are very hard to unfuck.
01:10:43.000 And when things go sideways and their life is fucked, like trying to bring them back to a place like where you are or a place where I am, where someone who didn't have those things happen to them as a child, that is an enormous task.
01:11:00.000 It's almost insurmountable. 0.88
01:11:01.000 I don't think it's even possible.
01:11:02.000 You can just prop them up a little bit so they're better, but they're never going to...
01:11:07.000 I mean, there are some that do it, but those people that have really recovered and have gone on to do great things...
01:11:13.000 We're people who kind of were doing great things before, but then they got caught up with cocaine and then they pulled themselves out.
01:11:18.000 So it seems like to me, and I've talked about this ad nauseum, is the only way to fix this is to fix the areas in which this is prevalent and to somehow or another pump money and resources into community centers and education and giving people some kind of hope.
01:11:40.000 And then even then, you're just going to make less of it.
01:11:43.000 You're not going to eliminate it entirely.
01:11:45.000 And it's a generational problem that could take decades upon decades to really put a dent in it.
01:11:52.000 But it's a task that's worth doing and no one is approaching this.
01:11:57.000 When politicians are sending billions of dollars overseas and billions of dollars on projects that a lot of people don't even agree to, And it's our tax money.
01:12:06.000 And nothing is being spent.
01:12:08.000 No.
01:12:08.000 If you want to save our country, this is the way to do it.
01:12:10.000 Yes.
01:12:11.000 Why are we looking at doing all these crazy things in other countries or going to Mars or wherever we're thinking?
01:12:18.000 How about right here in our own backyard?
01:12:20.000 Yeah, how about fixing places like the South Side of Chicago and Detroit and Baltimore?
01:12:25.000 And the way to do that, I believe, is providing hope for those families.
01:12:28.000 And it's not going to happen right away.
01:12:30.000 It's not going to happen in a generation.
01:12:31.000 Right, exactly.
01:12:32.000 And no one's got the patience for it.
01:12:33.000 Because whatever work you're going to put in, whatever money you're going to put in and energy and effort, you won't see in your lifetime.
01:12:39.000 I had a conversation with some friends about this last night, and they were saying, but would the country even run the same way if that happened?
01:12:48.000 Because don't you need all these poor and disenfranchised people to have the country work the way it works? 1.00
01:12:53.000 I'm like, but the country doesn't have to work the way it works.
01:12:55.000 This is just the way it works right now.
01:12:57.000 It's not like it wouldn't work another way.
01:12:59.000 Well, you know, what's interesting is You know, the universe, nature, even the human body regulates.
01:13:06.000 That's what it does.
01:13:07.000 When something's out of balance, it'll figure out and it'll find a...
01:13:12.000 It's like a seesaw.
01:13:13.000 It'll eventually balance out.
01:13:16.000 So we have a preponderance of down and out broken people on the streets, living in boxes and tents, addicted to drugs.
01:13:26.000 And we've also got the ultra super billionaires and the multi multi-millionaires.
01:13:32.000 And they're both existing on the two extremes.
01:13:35.000 Right.
01:13:36.000 And good luck getting the rich to say, all right, we're going to give away a third of our money so that we can help these people.
01:13:41.000 Well, they don't have any faith in it.
01:13:43.000 They also think that, I mean, when I talk to people about this that are very wealthy, they have a problem with charities that most of the money actually winds up going to administrative costs.
01:13:53.000 And very little of it actually goes to the people.
01:13:56.000 And then you find out that people that are working on the homeless situation...
01:13:59.000 I have a friend, Coleon Noir, who was a lawyer, and he was in San Francisco, and his perspective was, oh, they're not spending enough money to fix this homeless problem.
01:14:12.000 And then he talked to someone who was actually deeply embedded in that situation.
01:14:17.000 He said, no, no, no, no, no, no.
01:14:18.000 That's not the problem.
01:14:20.000 They are spending a lot of money on it.
01:14:21.000 But the money is going to these people that get high salaries that work on the homeless problem.
01:14:28.000 And he showed us a spreadsheet of all these people.
01:14:31.000 And it's six-figure salary, some of them $250,000 a year.
01:14:36.000 And it's a lot of them that are handling the homeless situation in Los Angeles and the homeless situation in San Francisco.
01:14:42.000 And there's no incentive to fix it.
01:14:46.000 The budget goes up every year.
01:14:48.000 The homeless problem goes up every year.
01:14:50.000 There's no accountability.
01:14:52.000 There's no, hey, we've spent all this money and the problem is bigger and you guys keep getting raises. 0.99
01:14:58.000 Like, what the fuck is going on here? 0.97
01:14:59.000 It becomes an industry. 0.99
01:15:02.000 And then fixing the homeless. 0.83
01:15:04.000 Like, if you look at the actual budget for dealing with the homeless, pull up the budget for dealing with the homeless in Los Angeles in 2022. Because it's bonkers when you see the sheer amount of money that's being spent ineffectively.
01:15:20.000 And all anybody seems to care about is we're working hard to mitigate the homeless situation, and we have upped our budget, and we're like, oh, they've upped the budget.
01:15:31.000 This is great.
01:15:32.000 And you think, that must be effective.
01:15:34.000 We're going to fix this.
01:15:35.000 But nothing gets done.
01:15:38.000 It's a big problem.
01:15:39.000 I think the big number was for California, not just for Los Angeles.
01:15:42.000 Okay, let's get to California.
01:15:43.000 7.2 billion.
01:15:44.000 7.2 billion just for homeless.
01:15:49.000 I would think with that you could clean up Tenderloin in San Francisco and LA. 3.3 billion general fund in 21-22 to almost 30 homelessness related programs across the state.
01:16:03.000 That is so much money.
01:16:06.000 And yet the problem gets bigger and bigger every year.
01:16:10.000 And I don't...
01:16:11.000 I think the problem, when you...
01:16:12.000 I was talking about the layers, you keep peeling them back.
01:16:14.000 When you peel back the last layer, it's human greed.
01:16:17.000 Human greed is the problem.
01:16:19.000 But also, what can be done?
01:16:23.000 When you think about what are the strategies that these people are employing, shelters, food, food stamps, counseling, these are like Band-Aids on gunshot wounds.
01:16:36.000 It's a Band-Aid on cancer.
01:16:37.000 Yeah, that's a better description.
01:16:41.000 No, but I think if we...
01:16:47.000 Here, just look at what's taught in schools.
01:16:49.000 They're teaching trigonometry and algebra and all these things.
01:16:51.000 When everyone's got a cell phone in their pocket, you don't need to be learning trigonometry anymore.
01:16:56.000 If you're going to become an engineer, then study trigonometry in college, but you don't need to be teaching it in high school.
01:17:01.000 They should be teaching human interaction, how to raise children.
01:17:05.000 All these skills that we're using on a daily basis.
01:17:08.000 They should talk about empathy, too, and how important it is, and kindness, and how it's not just good for the person you're kind to.
01:17:14.000 It's actually good for you.
01:17:15.000 Yeah.
01:17:16.000 No, I mean, that's the thing.
01:17:17.000 That's why I feel okay with giving away so much money, because I know that it benefits me.
01:17:22.000 Yeah.
01:17:23.000 That's what people don't understand about hate, whether it's hate on social media, or hate in general, or racism, or just...
01:17:31.000 All of the above.
01:17:32.000 Homophobia.
01:17:33.000 All of the above.
01:17:33.000 Any form of negativity and hate and judgment.
01:17:36.000 What people don't realize about that, if I'm hating you, it hurts me.
01:17:42.000 Yes.
01:17:42.000 It doesn't hurt you.
01:17:43.000 Right. 0.99
01:17:44.000 You don't give a fuck if I hate you or not. 0.99
01:17:46.000 Well, it hurts my feelings if you say it to me. 1.00
01:17:49.000 Yeah, but...
01:17:49.000 But mostly, you're carrying it around.
01:17:52.000 It's hurting me.
01:17:53.000 What is that expression?
01:17:53.000 My blood pressure is up.
01:17:55.000 My peace of mind is gone.
01:17:57.000 I'm sitting around...
01:17:59.000 Distracted about how pissed off I am at you.
01:18:01.000 Yeah.
01:18:02.000 It's like, what a horrible way to go through life.
01:18:04.000 Yeah, there's an old expression about hate, that it's a poison that kills the vessel that's holding it.
01:18:10.000 Yeah, that's exactly right.
01:18:12.000 It does.
01:18:13.000 And we're not told that.
01:18:15.000 We're told, you know, revenge is being told.
01:18:20.000 We were talking about Marcus Aurelius the other day, that Marcus Aurelius, who was the emperor of Rome 2,000 years ago, was talking about empathy.
01:18:27.000 Yeah.
01:18:37.000 Yeah.
01:18:40.000 Yeah.
01:18:53.000 In his own personal life.
01:18:54.000 And that was what Meditations was all about, his book.
01:18:57.000 Yeah.
01:18:57.000 That's what I try to do with my videos.
01:18:59.000 My idea was I'm going to present these ideas.
01:19:01.000 And I could write an article saying, oh, you need to raise our kids better. 0.71
01:19:04.000 We need to be better parents, better role models, and we'll have a better outcome with these kids.
01:19:08.000 Nobody's going to read that article.
01:19:10.000 Yeah.
01:19:10.000 But if I put out some entertaining videos that how many people are watching...
01:19:17.000 You'll learn the lesson, which is how important that childhood is to provide that kid with unconditional love.
01:19:25.000 Not love.
01:19:26.000 Not love. 1.00
01:19:26.000 Love is bullshit. 1.00
01:19:28.000 Unconditional love. 1.00
01:19:28.000 Everything else is some disguised bullshit. 1.00
01:19:31.000 Because you can have a parent who, I love you if you get good grades. 1.00
01:19:35.000 I'll love you if you stay out of jail. 0.99
01:19:36.000 I'll love you if you're not gay. 1.00
01:19:38.000 I'll love you if you're whatever. 0.98
01:19:39.000 Right.
01:19:41.000 Like the way my mom loved me, She passed away a couple years ago, but...
01:19:50.000 Give me a second.
01:19:54.000 Like, I could have been gay. 0.98
01:19:55.000 I could have been in jail. 0.97
01:19:56.000 I could have been flunking out of school.
01:19:59.000 Could have been mean to her.
01:20:00.000 I could have been anything.
01:20:02.000 And I know that she would have loved me the exact same way.
01:20:05.000 Yeah.
01:20:06.000 And because she did...
01:20:08.000 You are the person you are.
01:20:12.000 I wanted to make her proud.
01:20:13.000 Yeah.
01:20:13.000 I still do.
01:20:14.000 I think this project is just an homage to her.
01:20:20.000 Well, you're very fortunate.
01:20:21.000 Oh, yeah.
01:20:23.000 I don't know anybody that had a mom like mine.
01:20:26.000 And my dad was great, too.
01:20:27.000 Not as great, but my dad was really great. 1.00
01:20:29.000 My dad came from absolute shit. 0.98
01:20:31.000 Well, all of our parents came from a different era, too. 1.00
01:20:34.000 We have to take that into consideration.
01:20:36.000 That's a great point.
01:20:37.000 I mean, look at how so many people in this new generation are looking for the easy lick, the shortcut, the hack, the easy way to get rich or do whatever.
01:20:45.000 They want the fast buck.
01:20:46.000 Look at anybody who's done anything great in our world.
01:20:50.000 In the 1900s, in the 1800s, in the 1700s, from the beginning of time, every one of those people have a story of overcoming great adversity and working harder than you can even imagine.
01:21:04.000 They're amazing stories of perseverance, of courage, of all these things that nobody seems to want to do now.
01:21:11.000 Yeah.
01:21:12.000 Well, they're not taught that that's something you should strive for.
01:21:15.000 And when there are these options that are available, like becoming a TikTok star or becoming...
01:21:20.000 You know, there's these things that are available that are so simple that you see 17-year-olds making millions of dollars and you're like, well, that's what I want to do.
01:21:27.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:21:28.000 I don't want to struggle.
01:21:29.000 That's more attractive.
01:21:30.000 Yeah.
01:21:30.000 And there's not enough...
01:21:33.000 There's not enough emphasis on the fact that in doing difficult things, you learn about yourself.
01:21:40.000 And then this thing that you can create that's hard to create, that takes a long time, is immensely satisfying, as opposed to winning the lottery, which is what everybody wants to do, which is just, for the most part, when it happens to people, it kind of upturns their life.
01:21:56.000 Well, I mean, you win the lottery, most of these people that are not willing to work for it haven't put in the work for it. 0.99
01:22:04.000 If they actually came upon $3 million, they would fuck it off. 0.99
01:22:08.000 Yes. 1.00
01:22:09.000 They would fuck it off, because deep down subconsciously, they know they don't deserve it. 1.00
01:22:13.000 Which is so strange that we have this sort of watermark in our mind of what our value is. 0.99
01:22:21.000 And anything that goes above that, we try to bring that water back down to where it was.
01:22:25.000 Absolutely.
01:22:26.000 No, like when two people are romantically involved, a guy and a girl meet, or whatever, two people meet.
01:22:36.000 If you rated self-worth on a scale from 1 to 10, if one of them's an 8 and the other one's a 5, there's no chance in hell it'll ever work out.
01:22:44.000 Right. 0.99
01:22:45.000 Unless that 5 gets their shit together. 0.99
01:22:47.000 Yeah, but that's so hard to do. 0.99
01:22:48.000 It's so hard to do.
01:22:49.000 It's so hard to do.
01:22:51.000 Generally, two 5s can become an 8. If they grow together.
01:22:55.000 But they have to, like, really love each other and be friends.
01:22:58.000 They can have their bipolar heaven or whatever.
01:23:01.000 Well, I've seen a lot of really successful couples that, like, lose hundreds of pounds together.
01:23:07.000 And there's a lot of that on social media that I think is very inspiring when people do get their life in order.
01:23:14.000 No, and that would bond people better than anything.
01:23:15.000 Yes, yes.
01:23:16.000 And it seems to do that, you know.
01:23:18.000 But one of the things that I've noticed on your channel is there's a lot of couples that are addicted together.
01:23:23.000 You have these fentanyl addict couples, which is so heartbreaking.
01:23:28.000 I just did one earlier this week, Mike and Stephanie, and they were talking about how when they get apart from each other, they can kind of get clean and do fine, but then they love each other and they get back together and they self-destruct.
01:23:40.000 It's so strange.
01:23:41.000 They love each other and then they kill each other.
01:23:43.000 Yeah. 0.53
01:23:44.000 Yeah.
01:23:44.000 It's just the programming of the human mind and the fact that we don't really have tools to fix that.
01:23:51.000 Like, if you have a fucked up computer, you can bring it to a repair shop and they can go, oh, you've got a fucking virus on your hard drive and it's infected this and that and, you know, your fucking, your hard drive is broken and we can fix that and Replace that and reformat. 0.93
01:24:06.000 We can't do that to mine. 0.99
01:24:08.000 No, you said something on the Gabor Mate interview you did recently, where you said, it's like we're these living life forms without an instruction manual.
01:24:21.000 Yes.
01:24:22.000 That was great.
01:24:23.000 That's what we are.
01:24:24.000 We're these highly evolved...
01:24:26.000 Living creatures and you don't know how to operate it.
01:24:30.000 Yes.
01:24:30.000 So we're just going through school and we all hate school and we get out and we just screw up.
01:24:35.000 If they were teaching Gabor Mate's work in schools, oh my god, we'd be a different society. 0.96
01:24:41.000 Yeah.
01:24:44.000 Yeah, we would be a different society.
01:24:47.000 And just a few classes like that could shift the mindset of so many people.
01:24:52.000 It's so easy to fall back into your old ways of thinking and behaving.
01:24:56.000 But if we did that a lot in high school and exposed people to that, we genuinely could fix a lot of the problems that we see or at least make some strides.
01:25:07.000 Absolutely.
01:25:08.000 I think that would make more of a difference in the world than anything else we've talked about.
01:25:13.000 Yeah, and just so many people have never encountered an environment where people are supportive.
01:25:18.000 You know, for me, it was martial arts.
01:25:21.000 When I was a young boy, when I found martial arts, I was immediately brought into this world of discipline, where discipline was celebrated, and it was admired, and then also love of your fellow practitioners,
01:25:39.000 and it was a community.
01:25:41.000 And it was the first time I'd ever been around like a really positive community of people who valued hard work and also valued people who excelled at that hard work and really admired them and really used them as examples.
01:25:57.000 And those people went on to become instructors and it really – Profoundly affected the way I look at the world and profoundly affected the way I look at the value of other people and their hard work.
01:26:10.000 Their esteem-building acts.
01:26:11.000 Yes. 0.61
01:26:12.000 Yeah, and most people, I mean, you know, I found martial arts when I was a kid because I was small and I was always fucked with and I was scared of everybody.
01:26:21.000 And I had one pivotal day.
01:26:24.000 I had sort of dabbled in martial arts.
01:26:26.000 And then one day, where I walked into this one school in Boston, which was the Jaehyun Kim Taekwondo Institute, and from that one day, it changed my whole life.
01:26:39.000 And I'm so fortunate that that happened to me, and I often wonder, What would I be like if I didn't live in a nice neighborhood with nice people and didn't expose myself to that and didn't engross myself in that world of people that wanted to excel?
01:26:55.000 There's not a chance in hell.
01:26:56.000 No, a kid in South Central doesn't have any of those.
01:26:59.000 Exactly.
01:26:59.000 A kid whose mother is on Skid Row.
01:27:02.000 I mean, what do you do?
01:27:04.000 How do you get there? 1.00
01:27:06.000 You're fucked from birth. 1.00
01:27:08.000 You're being raised by a grandparent, if you're lucky. 1.00
01:27:10.000 If you're lucky.
01:27:11.000 Maybe the foster system.
01:27:12.000 And you don't have access to martial arts or ballet classes or music classes or...
01:27:19.000 Nothing.
01:27:20.000 Even good education, I don't think.
01:27:22.000 Right.
01:27:22.000 No opportunities.
01:27:24.000 Right.
01:27:24.000 No role models.
01:27:25.000 Nothing.
01:27:25.000 And this is what I think that could be mitigated with money.
01:27:30.000 If we allocated money, the way we allocate money to these overseas issues and the way we just throw money around at the military-industrial complex, and if we allocated that kind of money to try to take a comprehensive approach to shifting We had this guy on who was a cop in Baltimore,
01:27:55.000 and I guess it was like the early 2000s he was there, and he found a piece of paper that was an arrest report from the 1970s, and it was the same arrests in the same neighborhoods for the same crimes,
01:28:12.000 and it was overwhelming to him.
01:28:15.000 He was like, oh my god, this is just corruption and systemic racism and you're not going to fix this with just policing.
01:28:24.000 You're not going to just arrest your way out of this.
01:28:28.000 I think you need to change the mindset of these people.
01:28:33.000 This younger generation...
01:28:34.000 Like, what's become very cool?
01:28:36.000 To be bad.
01:28:37.000 Oh, if you're bad, you're cool.
01:28:39.000 That has to change.
01:28:41.000 Yeah.
01:28:41.000 That has to change.
01:28:42.000 I remember back in the 60s...
01:28:43.000 You're not old enough.
01:28:43.000 I was born in the 60s.
01:28:46.000 Like, being a good person was cool.
01:28:50.000 Right.
01:28:51.000 It was for a while.
01:28:52.000 You got it by your neck now.
01:28:54.000 Oh, I'm sorry.
01:28:55.000 It's okay.
01:28:55.000 Being a good person was what people aspired to.
01:28:59.000 Yes.
01:29:00.000 And...
01:29:02.000 Now it's like to be a bad person is what people...
01:29:04.000 Well, that's culture, unfortunately.
01:29:07.000 There's a lot of culture that has emphasized that.
01:29:11.000 And it's, you know, a lot of rap music and a lot of things celebrate that sort of badass lifestyle.
01:29:16.000 And, you know, when you come from nothing, that looks incredibly attractive.
01:29:20.000 Like, here's a guy flashing money.
01:29:22.000 He's wearing expensive sneakers.
01:29:24.000 He's got a great car.
01:29:25.000 You don't know any better.
01:29:25.000 Right.
01:29:25.000 And those are all...
01:29:27.000 Things that people aspire to that are very difficult to achieve.
01:29:30.000 So you look at that, instead of like having a balanced life and a loving family and being a pillar of the community, you aspire instead to being this thing that's very difficult to become, which is the guy who has the big house and the fancy clothes and the money you're flashing around.
01:29:47.000 And so it's just that you're chasing the wrong carrot.
01:29:51.000 Yeah.
01:29:52.000 Now that's it.
01:29:53.000 Yeah.
01:29:54.000 We're a broken country.
01:29:55.000 And it's like if you want to – if you really love your country and you want to fix it, that would be the area to – those would be the areas to attack.
01:30:02.000 Yeah.
01:30:04.000 And I don't see any effort at all.
01:30:06.000 Find me a politician that's, like, really going to do that.
01:30:08.000 Well, they don't even talk about it.
01:30:10.000 They don't even talk about it.
01:30:11.000 I mean, they'll talk about social safety nets, which I think are also very important, welfare and, you know, things for poor people that are genuinely just struggling because they're down on their luck.
01:30:25.000 That we should treat them as members of our community and try to help them because we can.
01:30:29.000 And that's a sign of a good, strong, healthy community that we do look out for people that are less fortunate than us.
01:30:36.000 But there's more that has to be taken into consideration.
01:30:39.000 Much, much more that has to be done.
01:30:41.000 Figure out, like, how is this continuing to happen in these same places over and over and over again?
01:30:46.000 And how is there no effort to try to mitigate that?
01:30:49.000 Because it's a long-term thing.
01:30:51.000 Like, this expression, you got to get better the same way you got sick.
01:30:54.000 And this country got sick slowly.
01:30:57.000 You're very much on the pulse of what's going on in the world and the country and technology and everything, right?
01:31:02.000 Society, culture, everything.
01:31:04.000 Do you think we are...
01:31:07.000 What you're watching is a society in downfall, like spiraling down?
01:31:11.000 There's a lot of us.
01:31:12.000 There's a lot of our society that is in downfall.
01:31:15.000 There's a lot of our society that is spiraling.
01:31:17.000 There's a lot of the way we think about things that is fruitless and pointless and ultimately negative.
01:31:24.000 But I think there's a lot of people also that are aware of that.
01:31:28.000 And there's also a distribution of information today and the way people are having conversations today that's totally unavailable before.
01:31:35.000 Your channel is part of that.
01:31:37.000 This podcast is part of that.
01:31:39.000 The multitude of podcasts that are out there where intelligent, kind, compassionate people Are thinking and talking about things, talking about the way you approach other human beings and talk to people the way you live your life, the way you can put pleasure and immediate gratification aside and seek discipline and hard work and the value and the benefit of that,
01:32:04.000 the value and the benefit of treating people with kindness.
01:32:07.000 And developing a good core group of friends and treating each other well.
01:32:12.000 I think that's spreading.
01:32:14.000 I think that's helping.
01:32:16.000 But I think we are constantly in this yin-yang battle as human beings.
01:32:21.000 And I don't think you have darkness without light, and I don't think you have light without darkness.
01:32:26.000 I think we're always going to be...
01:32:28.000 We're this bizarre, flawed, intelligent, calculating entity.
01:32:35.000 That is trying to figure out its existence which is ultimately finite in nature anyway.
01:32:40.000 And our goals and our aspirations and our dreams, there's so much of our society that's based around chasing objects which ultimately you can't keep. 0.94
01:32:54.000 And then also if you do give them to your kids, you're probably fucking them up.
01:33:00.000 It's very very few people that I've met that come from wealthy families aren't fucked up or at least I have friends that grew up very wealthy and their families wealthy and they're wealthy now and they know that they got there because of their family and there's a thing about them that's always insecure so they have to kind of brag a little and tell you a little of this they've done a little of that they've done and I know what they're doing and they're not bad people they're just trying to establish that they're valuable No, 0.97
01:33:27.000 imagine if your dad was an Elon Musk or somebody who was so wildly successful that you can never, in your wildest dreams, you're never going to outdo your father.
01:33:37.000 Right.
01:33:39.000 What's the motivation?
01:33:40.000 This is an old expression.
01:33:41.000 Show me the son of a great man who's also a great man.
01:33:45.000 It's very rare.
01:33:48.000 For men to aspire to be like their father, if your father was some, like, super conqueror-type character who just is out there.
01:33:57.000 Well, a great man is a vague term.
01:33:59.000 It is a vague term.
01:34:00.000 Vague term.
01:34:01.000 Vague term, because it could be just a great emotionally great man.
01:34:03.000 My dad was a great man, but he was not a multimillionaire.
01:34:07.000 Right.
01:34:07.000 But the thing is, like, what our society values in terms of when we look at someone who's great, we look at a Bill Gates, or we look at a, you know, someone who's amassed insurmountable wealth.
01:34:18.000 And that's, if you're a son and you're born in that, also, you don't have to work hard, because you're kind of always going to be okay.
01:34:27.000 You have an endowment, you have a fund, you have a this or that.
01:34:32.000 If you're that wealthy and successful, as I guess you and I probably are, how do you protect your kids from that?
01:34:40.000 How do you? 1.00
01:34:41.000 I'm not going to give you anything, so now you're a selfish bastard. 1.00
01:34:44.000 Right, right. 1.00
01:34:45.000 And if you do, you're damned if you do.
01:34:47.000 Well, I try to instill in my kids the value of hard work, but also sometimes kids don't want to hear it from you.
01:34:54.000 No.
01:34:54.000 Kids won't do what you say.
01:34:56.000 They'll do what you do.
01:34:56.000 I turned into my dad.
01:34:58.000 I just kind of blended a bit of my mom in as well.
01:35:02.000 So I'm an artist, but I work my ass off.
01:35:06.000 And that combination makes me a successful artist.
01:35:10.000 And I remember watching my dad work.
01:35:12.000 My dad never came home from work saying, oh, I worked my ass off this week and I traveled all over the Midwest and I did this and I did that.
01:35:18.000 I grew up in Chicago, in Detroit.
01:35:22.000 He never talked about how hard he worked.
01:35:24.000 He just did it. 0.96
01:35:24.000 He just shut up and did it. 0.96
01:35:26.000 Yeah. 0.94
01:35:27.000 He never bragged about it.
01:35:28.000 He never complained about it.
01:35:29.000 It's just what he did.
01:35:31.000 Yeah.
01:35:31.000 And my best friend Bob and I, we joke about how we had the same dad.
01:35:37.000 You know, different dads, of course, different families, but our dads are almost the same type of person.
01:35:42.000 Just shut up and worked. 0.63
01:35:44.000 Yeah. 0.99
01:35:44.000 And brought home the bread to support the family. 0.99
01:35:47.000 Yeah, if you grow up in that...
01:35:48.000 I was very fortunate to grow up in the Northeast.
01:35:51.000 And stayed married forever.
01:35:53.000 Yeah.
01:35:53.000 Forever.
01:35:55.000 People that grow up in hardworking environments tend to value hard work.
01:36:01.000 Yeah, I've heard you talk about that too.
01:36:03.000 Growing up in the Midwest or the Northeast, you learn that life is tough.
01:36:10.000 Yeah.
01:36:11.000 Tough.
01:36:11.000 When your car breaks down and it's February and it's dark and it's 1130 at night and you've got to figure it out.
01:36:18.000 Yeah, that's real.
01:36:19.000 Yeah.
01:36:20.000 And there's a value that you get from that that's really unavailable in any other place in life.
01:36:24.000 No, you're not going to learn that in California.
01:36:26.000 No, you're not.
01:36:27.000 I always say that one of the problems in California is also being a trust fund baby in terms of the weather.
01:36:33.000 Yeah, it makes you soft.
01:36:34.000 Yeah, you're just always sunny.
01:36:37.000 I still see myself to this day.
01:36:38.000 I've been in California. 1.00
01:36:40.000 Shit. 1.00
01:36:42.000 20, 30, three decades? 1.00
01:36:44.000 I don't know.
01:36:45.000 Long time.
01:36:46.000 And I still think of myself as a Chicagoan who's just, I'm just doing this in LA for a while.
01:36:50.000 Yeah.
01:36:51.000 I'm still a Chicagoan in my mind.
01:36:53.000 All my friends from Boston feel that way too.
01:36:55.000 Yeah.
01:36:55.000 They're Boston guys.
01:36:56.000 I mean, I look like a California boy, but I am a Chicagoan through and through.
01:37:00.000 Yeah.
01:37:00.000 And a Detroiter too.
01:37:02.000 Well, you know, LA is such a strange place because it's a place where people go to become somebody.
01:37:09.000 And that's always bizarre.
01:37:11.000 No, I saw that when I moved there.
01:37:12.000 I moved with my best friend who I went to high school with in Chicago.
01:37:15.000 And we had each other to stabilize each other and we kept each other on track.
01:37:19.000 That was very helpful.
01:37:22.000 But I saw so many people that I'd be friends with and like, man, they're just lost.
01:37:27.000 Like, you're getting into what?
01:37:28.000 You're going to what event?
01:37:30.000 What club?
01:37:32.000 And they eventually self-destruct and move back to their small towns.
01:37:36.000 Yeah, it becomes a thing of like finding the social circle that's popular and now it's about photographing yourself with those people.
01:37:44.000 Right, it's hard to make friends in LA. Yeah, well it's even weirder now I think with social media because social media...
01:37:50.000 Hollywood's always been kind of like it's all about the image and this The red carpet, which is like the most bullshit thing in the world.
01:37:59.000 Where in life are you standing there and there's a hundred cameras pointing at you and you're posing and looking around and they're like, Mark, over here, over here, over here. 0.92
01:38:09.000 And you're smiling.
01:38:10.000 But they live for that moment.
01:38:12.000 I have more great friends in New York than I do in LA. I've lived in LA forever.
01:38:16.000 There's great people in LA. I know there are, yeah.
01:38:18.000 But in spite of LA. That's right, that's true.
01:38:21.000 Yeah, that's...
01:38:21.000 That's true.
01:38:22.000 But that environment, it's also...
01:38:25.000 You have all these people that are...
01:38:28.000 Even if they have no aspirations to show business, they're still flavored by that show business. 1.00
01:38:33.000 And now it's even more fucked because you have these Instagram and social media influencers who are almost all full of shit. 1.00
01:38:41.000 And like, it's all nonsense. 1.00
01:38:42.000 And it's all image.
01:38:44.000 And it's all...
01:38:45.000 Fake.
01:38:46.000 It's all fake.
01:38:47.000 And this is what they're selling and pushing and promoting, and that's what the young people are aspiring to, and they realize that there's a value in it, that you could actually achieve social success and numbers on your Instagram page and numbers on your TikTok and numbers on your YouTube.
01:39:04.000 No, I think that's the most valued commodity now.
01:39:07.000 Yes.
01:39:07.000 To be, what do you call it, an influencer or whatever?
01:39:11.000 Mm-hmm.
01:39:12.000 Yeah.
01:39:12.000 A YouTuber or whatever the hell.
01:39:14.000 Yeah.
01:39:15.000 I mean, I'm horrified that I'm probably one of those, but...
01:39:18.000 Well, not really.
01:39:19.000 I mean, yeah, I guess I am too, right?
01:39:21.000 But what are you doing?
01:39:22.000 Like, you're doing something that's very different than just, like, TikTok-ing, you know, or just...
01:39:29.000 Yeah, I mean, I tell people who are like, Like, agents and managers that I'm working with, the number one thing that's important to me is my integrity and how I'm perceived. 0.81
01:39:42.000 Like, I don't give a fuck if I make money or not.
01:39:44.000 I don't need to make money from this channel. 0.98
01:39:46.000 The way YouTube demonetizes it, it's like I don't even...
01:39:50.000 Does YouTube demonetize a lot of your videos?
01:39:52.000 A lot.
01:39:52.000 What is their rationalization for demonetizing what you do?
01:39:56.000 I think they were good to me for a while.
01:39:59.000 They were promoting my stuff and they were monetizing it for a while.
01:40:01.000 But then, like if you look at the top 10 videos, I've got some videos that have a lot of views, like 15 million, 30 million, 33 million.
01:40:11.000 Six of the top ten have been demonetized or deleted.
01:40:15.000 Deleted?
01:40:16.000 Deleted.
01:40:16.000 Which ones got deleted?
01:40:18.000 A video of Lynn.
01:40:20.000 She had some mental issues and she was a crystal meth addict.
01:40:24.000 It was a very popular video because so many people connected with her.
01:40:29.000 And she actually passed away earlier this year, I think.
01:40:32.000 Why did they delete it?
01:40:34.000 She talked about suicide.
01:40:36.000 That's it?
01:40:37.000 I assume that's why.
01:40:39.000 Because YouTube sent me a notice.
01:40:42.000 They emailed me a notice saying, are you considering suicide?
01:40:44.000 Like this form document that they send out whenever there's a suicide mention or whatever.
01:40:49.000 So they...
01:40:51.000 There was a video where she mentioned suicide, so somebody reported it and it got deleted.
01:40:55.000 And that would have been a moneymaker.
01:40:57.000 Did you try to respond to that or repeal it?
01:41:00.000 Talking to YouTube is like talking to a wall.
01:41:03.000 I have a...
01:41:05.000 Partner manager, but nothing's really good.
01:41:07.000 There's such a danger in that kind of censorship.
01:41:10.000 Like anything to do with sex now?
01:41:12.000 Pretty much every video that has anything to do with sex gets demonetized.
01:41:16.000 Even the foot fetish guy?
01:41:18.000 No, if it's a male, here's what's interesting about it. 0.99
01:41:22.000 If it's a male talking about sex, or sex work, or sex being a trick or whatever, or a pimp, that's okay. 0.99
01:41:29.000 If it's a female, demonetized. 1.00
01:41:31.000 Is it because they think it's exploitation in some way?
01:41:34.000 Like, is there a rationalization or is it just completely subjective?
01:41:38.000 No, I think it's because, oh, here's a poor, vulnerable female who is talking about how she got into sex work. 1.00
01:41:44.000 We can't have that on, you know, we can't allow advertising on that.
01:41:48.000 So I can post it, but I can't make money off of it.
01:41:51.000 It's so unfortunate because, well, and also not necessarily post it, right?
01:41:55.000 Because you said the other one was deleted because of suicide.
01:41:57.000 Yeah, sometimes they delete them.
01:41:58.000 It's just, I think what you're doing is very valuable.
01:42:01.000 It's uncomfortable, but it's very valuable.
01:42:03.000 And the idea that someone at YouTube wouldn't recognize that and understand that, it's very disheartening.
01:42:11.000 No, I mean, it's pathetic that you have a channel that has 4 million views, The spirit of it is to help society, and you can't make money with it.
01:42:20.000 What I make on YouTube, I spend in the first two weeks of every month.
01:42:26.000 So that money, the additional money comes from...
01:42:29.000 I mean, really, what's...
01:42:30.000 Well, you have a subscription model, too.
01:42:32.000 I have a subscription channel, too, and that's starting to take off.
01:42:34.000 And when did you start doing that?
01:42:36.000 About a year ago.
01:42:37.000 And was that in response to the demonetization and the censorship?
01:42:41.000 That's exactly why I did it.
01:42:42.000 And this subscription model, is that also on YouTube or is that on your website?
01:42:45.000 No, it's on mysoftwhiteunderbelly.com.
01:42:48.000 And that's really the state of the art of my channel.
01:42:51.000 That's where every video lives, deleted, uncensored.
01:42:55.000 So they can find that one that was deleted from Instagram?
01:42:57.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:42:57.000 The original Lynn video is there.
01:42:59.000 There's a bunch of others.
01:43:00.000 Or on YouTube, rather.
01:43:00.000 Yeah, there's some others that were deleted.
01:43:02.000 All the demonetized ones.
01:43:04.000 There's a lot of nudity that's not on YouTube.
01:43:07.000 There's a lot of videos that are not.
01:43:08.000 There's like 150 videos that are not on YouTube.
01:43:11.000 That, to me, is another reason I wanted to do it, other than to try to make money with this project that I worked so hard at, is I figured one day I'm going to post something that's going to get my whole channel taken down.
01:43:26.000 Yeah.
01:43:27.000 I figured eventually that's going to happen.
01:43:29.000 I'll do something that just pisses somebody off and the whole channel will be gone, disappeared.
01:43:34.000 See you later.
01:43:35.000 It's just terrifying that that's an option today, especially with someone who's doing the kind of work that you're doing.
01:43:41.000 Yeah, but there's rap videos that are 10 times raunchier than what I'm doing and the spirit behind it is...
01:43:47.000 That this is cool, whereas the spirit of mine is like, I just want to create awareness so that maybe people will learn to avoid it.
01:43:53.000 No, it's not rational.
01:43:55.000 But they're monetized.
01:43:56.000 The rap videos all have ads on them.
01:43:58.000 Yeah.
01:43:59.000 And my stuff does not.
01:44:00.000 No, it's not.
01:44:01.000 It's not logical.
01:44:02.000 No.
01:44:03.000 But it's a big corporation, and good luck trying to have a logical conversation with them.
01:44:09.000 It's a big corporation that's also under the spell of an ideology.
01:44:14.000 The woke ideology of today is trying to find who are the victims and who's the perpetrator and what should you be allowed to talk about and what are you not allowed to talk about and what narrow confines Of conversations are you allowed to exist in?
01:44:32.000 And what topics are you just not allowed to approach?
01:44:35.000 And YouTube has been horrible with that in a lot of ways.
01:44:38.000 Yeah, just recently.
01:44:38.000 Yeah.
01:44:39.000 Well, it's like it's accelerating, it seems.
01:44:41.000 And it seems like that's one of the things that does happen with censorship that people don't seem to understand.
01:44:47.000 When you want things censored that you don't agree with, what you have to understand is that you're setting in motion something that will look for more things that are offensive, more things that are not allowed and will decide even further and further to push this until it's trying to control the way you think and the way you process information and what you're exposed to.
01:45:13.000 And somehow or another they think that that's a net positive.
01:45:16.000 Or they think that it's positive for advertising revenue.
01:45:19.000 And that the advertisers think it's positive.
01:45:22.000 But it's preposterous to me that someone would not want to advertise.
01:45:26.000 There's certain things that they could advertise on your channel.
01:45:29.000 And particularly if they were thinking about it and strategizing.
01:45:32.000 That would maybe be beneficial to some of the people that are looking at those things.
01:45:37.000 I mean the best example is like when a gang member...
01:45:41.000 Or a prostitute video gets demonetized.
01:45:44.000 Which really means I can't make money on it, which really means I should put it on my subscription channel and not even put it on YouTube.
01:45:49.000 I'm doing that as a favor to my audience.
01:45:50.000 But eventually that's where it would lead when you demonetize something.
01:45:56.000 Or they put an age restriction of 18 on it.
01:45:58.000 Yeah.
01:45:59.000 So you can't be under 18 watching this.
01:46:01.000 Look at the age that all these prostitutes and gang members were when they joined it. 0.58
01:46:05.000 Right.
01:46:05.000 They were 13. They were 14. Yeah.
01:46:08.000 So the people who are joining these subcultures Can't watch these videos that are giving you a clear picture of what your future is going to be.
01:46:17.000 You can't watch them.
01:46:18.000 My videos are clean.
01:46:20.000 You know, the exotic video. 0.76
01:46:21.000 This is this very attractive prostitute from South Central LA, from Figaro Street. 1.00
01:46:27.000 She has tattoos all over her face from pimps.
01:46:30.000 And the video has like, I don't know how many views.
01:46:35.000 14 million, 15 million.
01:46:36.000 It's got millions of views.
01:46:38.000 It's the second most popular video on my channel.
01:46:40.000 It got demonetized.
01:46:43.000 She doesn't swear once.
01:46:44.000 She doesn't talk about any sexual acts.
01:46:46.000 All she talks about is how difficult that lifestyle is and how tough her life is.
01:46:50.000 She mentions that she smokes crystal meth, but that's it.
01:46:53.000 And it is, in a way, it's educational.
01:46:58.000 It's educational as anything.
01:47:00.000 Because I could put videos out of some girl saying, I was once a prostitute, and it's a bad lifestyle, and you shouldn't do it. 0.96
01:47:07.000 All young girls, make sure you don't do this. 1.00
01:47:10.000 Nobody's going to watch that. 0.99
01:47:11.000 Who the fuck is going to watch that? 0.98
01:47:13.000 But if you put a beautiful girl like Exotic out there, and she tells you her whole life story, it's heartbreaking. 0.99
01:47:19.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:47:21.000 And a young kid will listen to that and go, fuck. 1.00
01:47:23.000 Yeah. 1.00
01:47:24.000 I had no idea it could lead to that.
01:47:25.000 Well, most people don't know anyone like that.
01:47:28.000 So that's one of the things about your interviews would say, like, some of these homeless people.
01:47:33.000 Like, there was one...
01:47:34.000 There was this woman who never looked at the camera once, and she... 0.95
01:47:38.000 It's like gyrating in these weird ways, like looking at the sky.
01:47:43.000 And you look at that and me as a father, that was someone's baby at one point in time.
01:47:49.000 That was a little child that could grow up to be anything.
01:47:53.000 Could grow up to be an artist, could grow up to be, you know, whatever.
01:47:56.000 All these people.
01:47:57.000 All these people.
01:47:58.000 They're all just human beings.
01:47:59.000 We're all just humans. 1.00
01:48:00.000 Just a bundle of potential and they just got fucked. 1.00
01:48:04.000 They just got a terrible roll of the dice, terrible hand of cards, terrible circumstances, terrible experiences, terrible abuse. 1.00
01:48:13.000 Sometimes you look at nature.
01:48:15.000 The lion eats the antelope.
01:48:19.000 That's just the way it happened that day.
01:48:22.000 The antelope loses, the lion wins.
01:48:25.000 And it's like, that's the nature of our universe, of our world.
01:48:30.000 Who's to say that humans are exempt from that?
01:48:33.000 Well, we certainly aren't.
01:48:34.000 Some of us are going to be winners and drive fancy cars and live in nice houses and have great lives and great vacations and raise their kids well.
01:48:43.000 And other ones are going to live on the street.
01:48:45.000 I'm not saying that's what I believe.
01:48:47.000 I'm just saying that's the reality.
01:48:49.000 Well, I mean, look at what's happening.
01:48:52.000 And I think about this all the time.
01:48:53.000 Should every swimmer get a trophy?
01:48:57.000 No.
01:48:57.000 Just the winners.
01:48:58.000 Yeah.
01:48:59.000 So the winners get to win and the losers suffer the loss.
01:49:04.000 Well, it's supposed to inspire people who are also trying to become winners to feel the pain of loss, which makes you more disciplined.
01:49:13.000 It makes you work harder because you want to try to figure out a way to win.
01:49:17.000 And that's supposed to be like a net benefit and to also enforce the value of hard work and discipline.
01:49:25.000 If you see that person who wins all the time and they're at the pool before anybody and they're eating healthy and they're stretching and doing all the right things and you're like, I want to be like that person.
01:49:35.000 Yeah, listen to anybody who's done, like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Jerry West, all these guys, they lost and lost and lost and lost and then they learned how to win.
01:49:44.000 Yes.
01:49:45.000 And then they became, they're only perceived as winners now.
01:49:47.000 Yes.
01:49:48.000 But there was a time where they were like, Kobe sat on the bench for the first few seasons.
01:49:52.000 That's how you become that person.
01:49:54.000 Yeah, you don't become that person through like extraordinary gifts from the moment you're a child and nothing but great positive things happening.
01:50:02.000 Yeah.
01:50:03.000 It comes from discipline and hard work and That's what's not being enforced by the social media, TikTok sort of generation of kids looking for this immediate gratification and also looking to be rewarded for just existing.
01:50:20.000 Look at all these people I just mentioned, Michael and Covey, for example.
01:50:25.000 They're angry.
01:50:27.000 They were driven.
01:50:29.000 Michael Jordan's the best example of anything.
01:50:31.000 If you ever watch his Hall of Fame acceptance speech, it's magnificent.
01:50:35.000 A magnificent example of how angry a champion is.
01:50:40.000 I love that speech.
01:50:42.000 Michael was always this...
01:50:44.000 I'm from Chicago.
01:50:46.000 Michael was this...
01:50:48.000 They called him the black Jesus.
01:50:49.000 He was just better than anybody.
01:50:51.000 There was no question who the greatest basketball player of all time was.
01:50:54.000 It's Michael Jordan.
01:50:55.000 Watch the highlights and you'll see.
01:50:56.000 I love Kobe more than anybody.
01:50:58.000 But Michael was the best there ever was.
01:51:01.000 Probably ever will be.
01:51:02.000 Psychotically driven. 1.00
01:51:03.000 Fuck! 1.00
01:51:05.000 Everybody was horrified in the whole theater when he's getting his Hall of Fame. 1.00
01:51:11.000 Because he was angry at...
01:51:12.000 Angry at everybody.
01:51:13.000 Yeah.
01:51:14.000 All the people that doubted him.
01:51:16.000 All the people that doubted him.
01:51:17.000 All the people that disrespected him.
01:51:18.000 He listed them all like he had them on a sheet, but he had them in his brain.
01:51:23.000 And it's amazing because you're like, why are you even thinking about those people?
01:51:26.000 You're Michael Jordan. 1.00
01:51:28.000 You're the fucking man. 1.00
01:51:29.000 He's the greatest. 1.00
01:51:30.000 Name an athlete who is more influential than Michael Jordan.
01:51:34.000 None.
01:51:34.000 In their sport.
01:51:35.000 None.
01:51:36.000 I mean, look at Jordan's.
01:51:37.000 They're still the number one sneaker in the world.
01:51:39.000 Yeah, they should be.
01:51:40.000 He's magnificent.
01:51:42.000 And that comes from that.
01:51:45.000 Yeah.
01:51:46.000 Fire.
01:51:46.000 Yeah.
01:51:47.000 I mean, I'm angry.
01:51:48.000 You know, my dad treated me like...
01:51:50.000 My dad, my sister's like...
01:51:53.000 My sister's one of my favorite people.
01:51:54.000 She's five years older, but she's about eight years older in terms of maturity.
01:51:58.000 Because I matured very slowly and she matured very quick.
01:52:00.000 I think she went through grade school a year early.
01:52:02.000 She got through high school in three years.
01:52:03.000 She went through college in three years.
01:52:04.000 And she was trying to get into dental school at like 20 years old or 21 years old.
01:52:09.000 And didn't get accepted for a while.
01:52:10.000 Worked in a motel for a while.
01:52:12.000 Because she couldn't do anything.
01:52:13.000 She just had to get a job.
01:52:15.000 And my dad was hard on us.
01:52:17.000 My dad was hard on us and said things to her and me.
01:52:21.000 I was not a straight A student.
01:52:22.000 My sister doesn't know any other letter than A, you know, on a report card.
01:52:26.000 But I remember him saying to us, if you're so smart, how come you can't get into dental school?
01:52:32.000 That's harsh.
01:52:33.000 That's harsh.
01:52:34.000 When you got nothing but A's.
01:52:36.000 Yeah.
01:52:37.000 And the only reason you couldn't get in is because she was too young.
01:52:39.000 No dental school wanted to take her because she was a teenager, basically.
01:52:42.000 Yeah.
01:52:43.000 You know, she had to age a couple years and then she got in.
01:52:46.000 Now she's a dentist. 1.00
01:52:46.000 But my dad used to tell me that kind of stuff all the time. 1.00
01:52:50.000 Hmm.
01:52:51.000 Hmm.
01:52:52.000 Hmm.
01:53:07.000 And I talked to him about it. 1.00
01:53:09.000 He says, yeah, I was just trying to put a fire under your ass. 1.00
01:53:11.000 And I'm like, well, it worked. 1.00
01:53:12.000 It worked.
01:53:13.000 It's hard because you're still going to resent that person for being cruel when you're younger.
01:53:17.000 No, but I mean, to me, the reason I do these videos, I love to learn.
01:53:23.000 You do too.
01:53:24.000 I mean, look at what you're doing.
01:53:25.000 You love to learn.
01:53:26.000 And I love to understand.
01:53:28.000 The wanting to understand why we self-destruct, why we self-sabotage, why society is broken, why all these things that are topics on my channel is what drives me to do them.
01:53:38.000 And I want to know why...
01:53:41.000 I forgot.
01:53:44.000 I lost my train of thought there.
01:53:46.000 Your dad being hard on you.
01:53:48.000 Yeah, but I just want to know what...
01:53:53.000 I lost my...
01:53:54.000 But I know what you're saying.
01:53:55.000 What is missing in these people?
01:54:00.000 What are the factors that lead people to become downcast and downtrodden of society?
01:54:06.000 And what are the factors that lead people to become healthy, functional, successful humans?
01:54:12.000 For me, it was a combination of the unconditional love I got from my mom that kind of kept me on track and made me believe in myself Tremendous.
01:54:22.000 I believe everything I do turns to gold.
01:54:26.000 It's a magical gift.
01:54:28.000 I love it.
01:54:30.000 Artistically, I believe my work is the best.
01:54:33.000 I'm sure it isn't, but I believe it is, so that just gives me the confidence to proceed and do more and like, oh my god, this is so much fun.
01:54:41.000 I get to create...
01:54:42.000 I'm laying golden eggs every day.
01:54:45.000 That's how I look at it.
01:54:48.000 But it could also have gone where, like, let's say I didn't get that unconditional love from my mom, and my dad was giving me a hard time saying, you know, that conditional love, saying, you've got to be successful in order to...
01:54:58.000 Oh, so I guess where I was going with that is my dad used to give me this hard time all the time, and it drove me to succeed.
01:55:04.000 And I didn't get good grades in school, but when I got out of school, in my mind, I'm like, now I'm going to prove him wrong.
01:55:11.000 I'm going to prove everybody wrong.
01:55:13.000 I'm going to show everybody what I can do.
01:55:14.000 And it took years.
01:55:16.000 It took a lot of years.
01:55:18.000 But I eventually just became so wildly successful.
01:55:20.000 I would send my dad...
01:55:21.000 I would mail him my...
01:55:23.000 This is before cell phones.
01:55:25.000 I would mail him my bank statements.
01:55:29.000 I had a million dollars in the Bank of America checking account, getting minimal interest.
01:55:35.000 Even the tellers would be like, why do you have this much money in a checking account?
01:55:39.000 Because I'm working so goddamn much, I don't have time to...
01:55:43.000 Invest it. 0.85
01:55:44.000 I literally was.
01:55:45.000 When I was doing advertising, I worked so much all the time.
01:55:49.000 But you wanted him to know.
01:55:50.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00
01:55:51.000 I was shoving his nose in the shit. 1.00
01:55:54.000 How did he respond to that? 1.00
01:55:55.000 He was so proud of me.
01:55:57.000 Oh, that's good.
01:55:57.000 So proud of me.
01:55:58.000 He talks about that to this day.
01:56:01.000 Well, that's great.
01:56:02.000 Oh, yeah.
01:56:03.000 So it was effective.
01:56:04.000 Yeah, it worked.
01:56:05.000 It worked.
01:56:06.000 It worked for my sister, too.
01:56:07.000 We both laugh about it now. 0.96
01:56:09.000 That it sucked, but it worked. 0.99
01:56:10.000 It sucked, but it works. 0.99
01:56:11.000 Yeah. 0.95
01:56:12.000 I mean, I try to raise my kids differently.
01:56:16.000 Why?
01:56:20.000 We could talk here for hours about whether that is the healthy way to raise a child.
01:56:24.000 I could make a strong argument for why it is.
01:56:27.000 And there were generations that raised their kids that way.
01:56:31.000 But I tend to love more like my mom did.
01:56:36.000 With women in my life, with my friends.
01:56:38.000 I'm basically kind.
01:56:41.000 I'm not a hard-driving, you know.
01:56:44.000 Has this project and doing all these videos made you more empathetic? 0.99
01:56:49.000 Oh, fuck yeah. 0.96
01:56:50.000 I mean, I always was soft and nice and loving, but now I think I'm more than ever. 0.99
01:56:56.000 I'm much more understanding.
01:56:58.000 Because the key to empathy, the key to forgiveness, which is really my biggest thing is forgiveness, is understanding.
01:57:06.000 Because if you understand why somebody is behaving the way they are, you'll forgive them.
01:57:13.000 And you don't even need to know all the details.
01:57:16.000 If you've learned enough stories, you eventually will...
01:57:20.000 Gain the understanding that even though I don't know your story, I'll bet you it's similar to his story and her story, which I've already heard, and they're horrifying, and I understand why they're in the situation that's similar to yours.
01:57:34.000 So you may not know the details, but you have gained the empathy and the compassion and the understanding to forgive.
01:57:44.000 And so the overwhelming volume of these people that you've interacted with, it has to have shifted your idea of what it means to be a person.
01:57:58.000 Yeah, for sure.
01:58:00.000 No, I've matured tremendously in the last three years from doing this.
01:58:06.000 I mean, I started this just as like, let me just do this crazy project.
01:58:12.000 I didn't think it was going to become a success on YouTube, but I knew that I was going to learn a lot about people, about why we self-destruct, about why we self-sabotage, about why we...
01:58:24.000 Get in our own way.
01:58:24.000 Why would you drink like that to destroy your relationship with your wife, to lose your kids, lose your job, lose your finances, lose everything?
01:58:34.000 You're now a drunk living on the street.
01:58:37.000 Why would you do that?
01:58:39.000 It makes no sense.
01:58:41.000 But if you hear the whole story and what they went through and how they weren't loved as a child and how their dad never neglected them or abused them or whatever, all the pieces start to fit.
01:58:50.000 And then you gain some empathy and compassion.
01:58:54.000 When you move on from doing this, you're going to just interview interesting people that are doing different kinds of things?
01:59:03.000 I did a really great interview with a girl named Kate down in New Orleans.
01:59:06.000 She is an obsessive-compulsive disorder sufferer.
01:59:12.000 And that was a great interview.
01:59:15.000 So many people liked it because it was just like, oh my god, that's me.
01:59:17.000 I saw so many comments saying that's what I have.
01:59:20.000 I didn't even realize it.
01:59:21.000 Because that's my story.
01:59:22.000 And I see that in so many of my videos.
01:59:24.000 Like, this is my story.
01:59:25.000 So I like the mental health stories.
01:59:28.000 The sex stories are always fun.
01:59:29.000 I find sex interesting.
01:59:32.000 Even though I don't make money on YouTube, I'll still do them.
01:59:36.000 And I'll put them on my subscription channel sometimes too.
01:59:39.000 And then this guy, like the skydiver I mentioned, that's an interesting story because what's interesting about his story is not that he had this crazy one-in-a-million event happen in his life, tragic, is how he views life now.
01:59:54.000 That's what the second half of our talk is all about, is how he views life.
01:59:59.000 Life and values where he's at in life.
02:00:03.000 I mean, he doesn't really have his body to use like he once did.
02:00:08.000 Maybe he'll gain it back, hopefully.
02:00:10.000 How long ago was his accent?
02:00:11.000 Three months.
02:00:13.000 Jesus.
02:00:13.000 Three months.
02:00:14.000 He just emailed me before I came down here.
02:00:17.000 And I'm like, this is great timing.
02:00:19.000 Can he walk?
02:00:20.000 Yeah.
02:00:20.000 He walks with a cane.
02:00:22.000 I don't think he can use his right leg.
02:00:23.000 He fell on his right side, so his right leg, his right arm, his right everything.
02:00:27.000 He bit his tongue.
02:00:29.000 Bit his tongue off, I think.
02:00:32.000 Yeah.
02:00:35.000 Hemorrhage. 0.99
02:00:35.000 He said his testicles turned like a cantaloupe. 0.99
02:00:38.000 Oh, Jesus. 1.00
02:00:41.000 I mean, you fall 4,000 feet into a cornfield, some bad shit's gonna happen. 0.98
02:00:46.000 So, from now on, like, this new direction that you want to take things to, how do you seek out people? 0.95
02:00:53.000 Do you just, like, when you get emailed, like, this seems interesting?
02:00:57.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:00:57.000 I mean, I'll probably post a video on my channel.
02:01:00.000 I've been thinking about doing it, I just haven't done it yet, because I just hired somebody new, and I want to get her, like, up to speed on everything.
02:01:06.000 But we put out little ads on...
02:01:09.000 Instagram and TikTok, not TikTok, Craigslist and things like that.
02:01:13.000 And we're getting some response to that, and that's been great.
02:01:16.000 That's how I found him.
02:01:18.000 But...
02:01:20.000 I've always gotten lots of emails from people that like my channel.
02:01:22.000 Oh, I want to be on your channel.
02:01:24.000 But if they don't send a video, I won't even consider it.
02:01:27.000 Because everyone says they have a great story, but I need to see how you speak.
02:01:30.000 Right.
02:01:31.000 Yeah, that's a problem that I've had where we're interviewing people who've written books.
02:01:36.000 Some of them are not terrible speakers.
02:01:38.000 Yeah, and sometimes they talk the way they write.
02:01:41.000 Like, pause, um, pause, um, right, click, click, click, because that's how they think.
02:01:47.000 No, see, what I do with everybody, I won't even consider you unless you've sent me just a 15 or 30 second video of you just telling me your name and where you're from.
02:01:55.000 It's just the basics, so I can hear your voice, see what you look like, see how you speak, because if you're...
02:02:01.000 Some people are more charismatic speakers than others.
02:02:06.000 What I'm doing is maybe some people look at it as, oh, you're doing this good deed for society.
02:02:11.000 And maybe there is some of that, but there's also this is entertainment as well.
02:02:15.000 And I'm from advertising.
02:02:16.000 I'm slick.
02:02:19.000 I still have that in me.
02:02:22.000 I don't look like a homeless, disheveled dude.
02:02:24.000 I know how to put myself together.
02:02:26.000 So my art tends to have some of that quality too.
02:02:30.000 So I want it to look and sound good.
02:02:33.000 Not technically, but in terms of how you speak.
02:02:36.000 How you tell a story.
02:02:37.000 I'm looking for great storytelling is what I'm looking for.
02:02:39.000 I tell people all the time, rather than telling me the most horrific story that's ever been told, I would rather have you tell a boring story about crack cocaine, but you're a great speaker.
02:02:49.000 I had a guy, I had a couple of crack addicts and crystal meth addicts just recently I just interviewed on Skid Row, and they're just great storytellers.
02:02:57.000 Yeah.
02:02:58.000 And I love that.
02:02:59.000 But their story wasn't the most horrific ever, but it's great storytelling and it's fun to listen to.
02:03:03.000 Yeah.
02:03:04.000 And I love that.
02:03:06.000 How often do you consume these videos?
02:03:09.000 I mean, are you watching them all day long?
02:03:11.000 No.
02:03:12.000 Do you, like, purposely go out of your way to not?
02:03:15.000 Your very first question when we started, I never answered, which is, like, how does it affect me?
02:03:20.000 Yeah.
02:03:21.000 You have to understand, like, you have a crew, and you have cameras all set, everything's set.
02:03:26.000 I'm using natural light.
02:03:28.000 So the sun is going behind the clouds, the sun is moving...
02:03:31.000 Throughout an interview, there's noise going outside.
02:03:35.000 I'm doing this all by myself.
02:03:36.000 I'm operating two cameras.
02:03:38.000 I have to make sure the mic...
02:03:39.000 I don't use headphones and a mic like this.
02:03:41.000 I'm using a lavalier mic that they clip on.
02:03:45.000 So I have to make sure that's not getting bumped or knocked off or whatever.
02:03:50.000 I'm like a one-man band.
02:03:52.000 I'm trying to do two things.
02:03:53.000 I'm doing all these things at the same time.
02:03:55.000 Oh, and I'm also doing an interview.
02:03:57.000 Let me ask you a question.
02:03:58.000 Let me ask you this question.
02:03:58.000 And I'm doing like six or eight of these a day.
02:04:01.000 So I have to remember, like, were you molested by your uncle or your dad?
02:04:04.000 I can't remember.
02:04:06.000 I can't remember.
02:04:07.000 And I've made this mistake.
02:04:08.000 People tell me, so I've got kids and all this.
02:04:10.000 And then later on in the interview, I ask them if they have kids.
02:04:12.000 Right. 1.00
02:04:12.000 It's not because I'm an idiot. 1.00
02:04:14.000 It's because I'm doing so much at once that I can't possibly absorb everything I'm being told. 0.99
02:04:20.000 Got it.
02:04:21.000 Yeah. 0.99
02:04:21.000 And I'm also interviewing, at least on Skid Row especially, so many, like, The force that comes at me of bullshit and hustling and conning and lying and thievery and all that crap, it's a lot. 0.99
02:04:37.000 So they recognize you now when you show up? 0.99
02:04:39.000 Who's that?
02:04:40.000 People in Skid Row.
02:04:41.000 Oh, yeah.
02:04:42.000 Oh, yeah.
02:04:42.000 I'm like a fixture there.
02:04:44.000 So you're that guy.
02:04:45.000 I'm the guy that does those interviews.
02:04:47.000 And a lot of people will bring me somebody that they know or whatever.
02:04:49.000 Yeah, that happens a lot.
02:04:51.000 And you pay those people and...
02:04:53.000 I pay the people that bring them.
02:04:54.000 I pay the people I interview.
02:04:55.000 I pay some people that I've interviewed in the past and I'm helping them out with motel rooms or...
02:05:01.000 How did you find...
02:05:02.000 One of the most compelling and fascinating videos that I watched was those mountain people.
02:05:07.000 Oh, the Whitaker family? 0.98
02:05:08.000 Yeah.
02:05:09.000 In West Virginia?
02:05:10.000 Yeah.
02:05:11.000 How'd you find them?
02:05:13.000 That was during Created Equal, the book that I mentioned.
02:05:17.000 I was going to each of the lower 48 states, and we were in West Virginia just driving around.
02:05:22.000 Axel, my assistant and I, he's worked with me for decades.
02:05:26.000 And we're just driving around, looking for anybody interesting to photograph.
02:05:29.000 It was just like...
02:05:31.000 Let's just see what we can find.
02:05:33.000 And we're in a truck stop, convenience store, gas station thing.
02:05:37.000 And I'm inside and there's a cop in there.
02:05:40.000 And cops always know everybody in their county or whatever.
02:05:44.000 This is a Raleigh County cop.
02:05:47.000 And I went up to him, told him what I'm doing.
02:05:49.000 And he goes, oh yeah, I know all kinds of people.
02:05:51.000 I'm like, I bet you do.
02:05:52.000 He goes, I get off at two o'clock.
02:05:54.000 And I go, I'll meet you here too.
02:05:56.000 So we did.
02:05:58.000 I've had people like this before who have helped me.
02:06:00.000 This guy was probably the best I've ever had.
02:06:03.000 He took me to pure gold over and over and over.
02:06:06.000 All these interesting people who I photographed for Create Equal.
02:06:10.000 He knew exactly what I'm looking for.
02:06:12.000 He showed me the best of the best of Raleigh County.
02:06:14.000 It was great.
02:06:15.000 I'm sure there's more.
02:06:16.000 I know there's more.
02:06:17.000 The ones he showed me were so great.
02:06:20.000 And the first day we did this, we shot this person, we shot that, we shot a third, and then it started raining.
02:06:25.000 And my strobe equipment, I always use strobe equipment for my photographs.
02:06:30.000 This is photographs only at the time.
02:06:31.000 This is for a photo book.
02:06:33.000 Got rained on.
02:06:34.000 And so we had to pack up and leave.
02:06:36.000 Can't rent photo gear in West Virginia, so we just had to go back to LA. And I told him, we'll be back in two weeks.
02:06:42.000 So we come back, and he says, when you come back, make sure you bring video cameras.
02:06:47.000 I'm like, yeah, yeah.
02:06:49.000 I don't do video.
02:06:50.000 So I didn't say anything.
02:06:51.000 But two weeks later, we come back and he meets us and he goes, did you bring video cameras?
02:06:58.000 I'm like, no, I don't do video.
02:07:00.000 He got really pissed.
02:07:02.000 He's like, you're going to want video.
02:07:04.000 I'm like, I don't do video.
02:07:06.000 I'm sorry.
02:07:06.000 Just photos.
02:07:08.000 So we follow him.
02:07:09.000 He's in one car.
02:07:10.000 Not a cop car, but his own private car.
02:07:12.000 And we're following him in our rental.
02:07:14.000 And we're going off the highway.
02:07:15.000 Then we go off this mountain road.
02:07:17.000 And it's winding through the mountains.
02:07:18.000 Beautiful country.
02:07:19.000 Appalachia.
02:07:22.000 Western West Virginia and eastern Kentucky, it's right near the border of Kentucky.
02:07:25.000 It's so beautiful.
02:07:26.000 It's one of the most beautiful parts of the U.S. And this windy road turns into like a gravel road and then turns into a dirt road.
02:07:34.000 And there's shacks. 0.95
02:07:36.000 Every once in a while you see a house.
02:07:37.000 Somebody lives there?
02:07:38.000 You can't believe people live there.
02:07:41.000 And we're very poor.
02:07:42.000 I mean, the poverty in that part of West Virginia is like, these people are making, I think, an average of $12,000 a month.
02:07:49.000 That's what they live on.
02:07:51.000 So we're going down this dirt road, and then we come around this bend.
02:07:55.000 We're going really slow.
02:07:57.000 $12,000 a month?
02:07:58.000 I'm sorry, $12,000 a year.
02:08:00.000 Yeah.
02:08:00.000 $12,000 a year.
02:08:02.000 How do they live on $12,000 a month?
02:08:03.000 I was like, that's actually...
02:08:04.000 No, no, no.
02:08:04.000 I'm sorry.
02:08:05.000 $12,000 a year.
02:08:06.000 Yeah.
02:08:07.000 $12,000 a year.
02:08:08.000 Can you imagine that?
02:08:08.000 No.
02:08:09.000 That's crazy.
02:08:11.000 That's like parts of Kentucky and West Virginia are like that.
02:08:14.000 So poor.
02:08:15.000 So we're driving down this dirt road.
02:08:16.000 We come around this bend.
02:08:19.000 There's a shack on the left and there's a trailer on the right.
02:08:22.000 Small trailer.
02:08:24.000 And there's about 10 or 12 people just walking around, and we're going really slow.
02:08:30.000 So they're not used to cars coming by at all, but going that slow, they definitely, we got their attention.
02:08:37.000 And it's like everyone you look at, it's like their eyeballs are going this way.
02:08:41.000 And a single tooth among them.
02:08:43.000 Not a single tooth in any of their heads.
02:08:46.000 And they look at us and we look at them and they start yapping and screaming and barking.
02:08:50.000 Some of them are just staring at us and drooling.
02:08:53.000 Yeah, these people.
02:08:54.000 This was the video.
02:08:55.000 The inbred family.
02:08:57.000 The Whitakers. 0.98
02:08:58.000 Let's play some of this.
02:09:01.000 So what are your names?
02:09:07.000 I'm sorry, who's this?
02:09:10.000 His name's Ray.
02:09:11.000 Ray?
02:09:12.000 I remember Ray.
02:09:13.000 I photographed you, Ray.
02:09:14.000 Do you remember?
02:09:15.000 Years ago.
02:09:16.000 So that sound is this man barking.
02:09:19.000 Lorraine and Timmy.
02:09:22.000 None of them speak.
02:09:24.000 You guys grew up here in Odd, West Virginia.
02:09:28.000 How many years have you lived here?
02:09:47.000 These are all brothers and sisters.
02:09:52.000 You graduated from what?
02:09:57.000 You went to high school, Timmy?
02:10:01.000 Timmy graduated high school.
02:10:03.000 Doesn't speak a word.
02:10:05.000 He's actually Lorraine's daughter.
02:10:08.000 Son.
02:10:09.000 Oh, son.
02:10:12.000 Come right out.
02:10:14.000 And that's a man barking for people just listening to this.
02:10:18.000 That's all he...
02:10:20.000 So they live with a bunch of dogs, and he's adopted their way of communicating.
02:10:25.000 I don't know about that, but he does sound like a dog when he speaks.
02:10:30.000 Here he is right here.
02:10:43.000 So some of it's a dog, some of it is him.
02:10:46.000 They sound very similar.
02:10:47.000 Yeah, that's a dog barking.
02:10:50.000 And that's him.
02:10:52.000 Now, what is the story of this family?
02:10:55.000 So it's Ray on the left, Timmy in the center, Lorraine's son, not daughter, and that's Freddie on the right.
02:11:04.000 Freddie has passed away recently.
02:11:09.000 So let me tell the story about how we met.
02:11:11.000 So we pull up and these people are just staring at us.
02:11:14.000 And it's something that, like, it's the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life.
02:11:19.000 I will never, I'm certain I will never see anything crazier than this.
02:11:25.000 We pull the cars over, me and the cop get out, and the cop comes up to me and says, I told you, you should have brought a video camera.
02:11:33.000 I'm like, yeah, you're right.
02:11:35.000 So I walk over to the house to ask them if I could photograph them.
02:11:42.000 And she, I think one of the sisters just points to the Trailer home, across the road.
02:11:50.000 So I go to the trailer home, and there's a man sitting on the couch with two women.
02:11:56.000 And I poked my head in.
02:11:57.000 The door was open, so I poked my head in, and I said, my name's Mark.
02:12:00.000 I'm a photographer from California.
02:12:01.000 I just started giving my spiel, and he interrupts me.
02:12:03.000 He says, sorry, sir, we had death in the family.
02:12:06.000 We're mourning.
02:12:08.000 We're not interested at this time. 1.00
02:12:10.000 And I'm just like, fuck. 0.99
02:12:13.000 Came all the way out here? 1.00
02:12:16.000 And I gotta be respectful.
02:12:17.000 Somebody died.
02:12:19.000 So I just like, okay, I'll check in with you later and I left. 0.99
02:12:26.000 I go back to the cop and Axel and I'm talking to him like, fuck, we came at the wrong time. 0.96
02:12:32.000 But then I started thinking. 0.98
02:12:34.000 You know, I'm fast on my feet thinking.
02:12:40.000 I'm shooting 8x10 film and 8x10 Polaroids, so you get an instant Polaroid.
02:12:45.000 So I have the ability to take pictures of the family, and I thought maybe that might be nice to give them 8x10 prints, these instant Polaroids, of their family.
02:12:54.000 And they can include that in the casket of, I think it was their sister-in-law who passed away.
02:13:03.000 And you could put the prince in the casket, take the family with her, some symbolic gesture like that.
02:13:13.000 So I asked Kenneth, who's one of the brothers who speaks, if I could take his photo.
02:13:16.000 And he's always been friendly.
02:13:18.000 And he said, yeah, sure, no problem.
02:13:19.000 So we set up on the side of the house.
02:13:22.000 And I got my backdrop and the light and the camera.
02:13:24.000 It's a bit of a production.
02:13:28.000 Clearly something unusual is going on here.
02:13:30.000 And some pickup truck comes running down the road, sees what's going on, slams on his brake. 0.99
02:13:34.000 And this dude gets out of the car angry as fuck. 1.00
02:13:40.000 It looks like he wants to kill me. 1.00
02:13:41.000 He's just marching over to me.
02:13:43.000 I'm like, oh God, this is not going to be pretty.
02:13:45.000 And I'm like... 0.99
02:13:46.000 He goes, what the fuck are you doing? 1.00
02:13:48.000 And I'm like... 0.99
02:13:49.000 Let me explain what I'm doing.
02:13:50.000 I grab my book and I show them the samples of other portraits I've done and they're all respectful.
02:13:54.000 They're beautiful portraits.
02:13:56.000 And I explained that there was a death in the family and I'm going to take photos of the family and they're going to include it in the casket.
02:14:00.000 I'm also going to pay these people for letting me take their photos.
02:14:03.000 And I calmed them down and eventually he let me be and I took the photo.
02:14:08.000 Who was that gentleman?
02:14:09.000 He was just one of the neighbors, I think.
02:14:11.000 He was protecting those people?
02:14:12.000 He was protecting them, yeah.
02:14:13.000 Because a lot of people in that area know about them and like to drive by and throw eggs and make fun of them and stuff like that.
02:14:20.000 So he thought I was doing something like that.
02:14:22.000 So I got him off my back and I'm taking a photo of Kenneth.
02:14:26.000 I think I took a photo of Lorraine and her sister Barbara.
02:14:30.000 And Lorraine's holding a nephew or something. 0.86
02:14:34.000 So I had a couple prints already, and I go over to Larry, who was one of the other brothers who was in that trailer, and I showed him the prints, and I said, you know, I have an idea.
02:14:43.000 What if I took photos of the family and I gave it to you guys?
02:14:45.000 You could include it in the casket with your sister-in-law.
02:14:49.000 Would you like me to do that?
02:14:50.000 He goes, well, that's fine about me.
02:14:52.000 If they want to do it, it's up to them.
02:14:54.000 So that gave me the green light to go ahead and do this, and I went back, and I tried to get that photo that you just saw of Ray on the left, Timmy in the center, and then Freddie on the right.
02:15:04.000 Timmy and Freddie were cool.
02:15:06.000 They'll stand there for as long as I want.
02:15:09.000 Freddie was like Ray is now.
02:15:11.000 But Ray, this is 2004, so it's, what, 16 years ago?
02:15:17.000 18 years ago.
02:15:19.000 Ray was so uncontrollable.
02:15:22.000 So I have Freddie and Timmy standing there, and I'd go find Ray, and I'd ask him, Ray, could I ask you to come over here, and I'll take your photo with your brothers.
02:15:32.000 And he would come over and he would stand right next to my camera, like right next to it, two inches away from the lens.
02:15:37.000 And I'm like, no, no, no, I need you to stand with your brothers.
02:15:39.000 And he would get, as soon as I corrected him, he would just flip out and go screaming, running off.
02:15:45.000 Pants would fall around his ankles, no belt, and he's wearing jeans that are too big, so his pants fall around his ankles.
02:15:49.000 And he runs off and goes to kick a metal garbage can.
02:15:53.000 Screaming.
02:15:54.000 And this would happen over and over and over.
02:15:56.000 I spent like an hour, probably an hour and a half, trying to get him to stand for a portrait.
02:16:03.000 Eventually, I tried this over and over again.
02:16:05.000 Eventually, I got it to happen.
02:16:06.000 And we pack up and we leave.
02:16:08.000 And I gave them the prints and I gave them some money as well.
02:16:13.000 We're driving away and Axel, before he got on the highway again, I said, dude, you just got to pull over the car.
02:16:20.000 I just need to soak in with what just happened. 0.99
02:16:22.000 That was the craziest shit I've ever seen. 1.00
02:16:25.000 I've never seen human beings like that. 1.00
02:16:27.000 That's like being on another planet.
02:16:29.000 That was the craziest thing ever.
02:16:32.000 And over the years, I kind of maintained a relationship.
02:16:36.000 So those photos were put out in my first book, Created Equal, which I mentioned earlier.
02:16:41.000 So years go by.
02:16:43.000 I popped there again and visited them once or twice over the years when I was doing some other projects for advertising or something in the area.
02:16:51.000 So I kind of stayed in touch with them a little bit.
02:16:54.000 But then when I started doing Self White Underbelly, I love Appalachia.
02:16:58.000 I love going there for content.
02:17:00.000 And I find the people just so beautiful and interesting.
02:17:03.000 It's a shame that there's drugs there.
02:17:04.000 I went there to avoid the drugs, to get away from it, but the drug problem there is worse than L.A. But there's other people who have not touched drugs, and they're my favorites.
02:17:13.000 Just the backwoods hillbillies are my favorite.
02:17:17.000 They're so beautiful.
02:17:20.000 So we're back in West Virginia.
02:17:22.000 I'm like, hey, we're close to the Whitakers. 0.98
02:17:23.000 Let's go drive by.
02:17:25.000 So we drive by their house.
02:17:28.000 And I'm not thinking of doing an interview with them.
02:17:30.000 You can't.
02:17:31.000 Because I have these rules that I set for my project for Soft White Underbelly where I kind of do it in a studio.
02:17:36.000 I try to.
02:17:38.000 And it's an interview where I'm asking questions.
02:17:40.000 And these people can barely answer anything.
02:17:42.000 They just bark or they stare at you or whatever.
02:17:44.000 So I didn't see this as being for my channel.
02:17:48.000 I just was going to say hi to them.
02:17:51.000 And we pull up and I'm like, you know, life is different now.
02:17:54.000 I have a video camera in my pocket.
02:17:55.000 Let me just shoot a video of this as I'm saying hi to them.
02:17:59.000 And I'll show it to my friends back home who have been here before.
02:18:02.000 I've seen them about, you know, I've heard about them before.
02:18:04.000 So I'm shooting a video as I'm talking to them.
02:18:06.000 And as I'm shooting, I'm realizing this is kind of interesting.
02:18:10.000 I wonder if...
02:18:12.000 If I stretch this out, maybe it could be a video somehow.
02:18:16.000 And I could use the portrait from CreateEqual, because I always include a portrait in all my videos.
02:18:21.000 If it doesn't have a portrait, I don't use it.
02:18:25.000 I could use it, but then I just proceeded.
02:18:29.000 I made it as long as I could.
02:18:30.000 I asked them the same question over again.
02:18:31.000 They couldn't answer them because they don't really communicate so well.
02:18:34.000 But that video, I ended up editing it and putting it together, and I put it on my channel, and now it's got 33 million views.
02:18:41.000 33 million.
02:18:42.000 It's crazy.
02:18:42.000 What is the story with that family?
02:18:44.000 The parents were double first cousins.
02:18:54.000 But in addition to being double first cousins...
02:18:57.000 What is double first cousins?
02:18:58.000 I don't even know.
02:18:59.000 But in addition to that, their fathers, on both the mother and the father side, were twins, identical twins.
02:19:10.000 So it's like the same person...
02:19:21.000 And then the parents were cousins on top of it.
02:19:26.000 And then who knows what other environmental issues there are.
02:19:30.000 What is a double cousin?
02:19:31.000 Double cousins, first cousins, but twice.
02:19:33.000 They share both sets of grandparents.
02:19:36.000 It can happen both parents of one double first cousin or also the siblings of parents of another double first cousin.
02:19:43.000 This is like a puzzle for a test.
02:19:45.000 I don't explain it.
02:19:46.000 It can happen when two siblings meet and have offsprings for two other siblings.
02:19:52.000 I don't understand it.
02:19:54.000 I don't understand it.
02:19:55.000 But there's a guy who did all the genetic mapping of this, and he just showed me.
02:19:59.000 He posted a video on YouTube.
02:20:01.000 Jesus.
02:20:02.000 So he explains the whole genealogy of this.
02:20:04.000 So that is this family.
02:20:07.000 First double cousins share all four grandparents.
02:20:10.000 Okay.
02:20:11.000 So this family was deeply inbred.
02:20:15.000 Yeah, and as poor as can be.
02:20:18.000 Poorer than poor.
02:20:19.000 I mean, the conditions under which they live are, like, unbelievable.
02:20:23.000 Like, the house is so filthy.
02:20:25.000 How do they get any money?
02:20:27.000 I'm sure they get some support from the state or something.
02:20:30.000 But when I did that video...
02:20:36.000 I just felt like the right thing to do is to help them financially.
02:20:40.000 Even though YouTube demonetized that video, eventually I fought YouTube on it, and they eventually monetized it.
02:20:46.000 I don't know why they would demonetize it, because there was no swearing, no nothing.
02:20:49.000 It's just a poor family, but that's YouTube.
02:20:53.000 But eventually I'm making money on that video, so I just figured I'll share it with them.
02:20:57.000 And then I got so many people requesting, oh my, how do I help this family?
02:21:02.000 So I put up a GoFundMe that's just for them and people donate to it and I give them money.
02:21:06.000 I've given them lots of money now.
02:21:08.000 You can see in the more recent, there's I think four videos with that family.
02:21:12.000 Their living conditions have improved quite a bit.
02:21:15.000 So is the entire family inbred?
02:21:18.000 The woman who's talking, is she just like a lesser? 0.99
02:21:20.000 They're all brothers and sisters.
02:21:23.000 Except for Timmy who is Lorraine's The family tree is someone put together.
02:21:29.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:21:30.000 Did you put this together?
02:21:31.000 No, I did not.
02:21:31.000 This video is four days old.
02:21:33.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:21:33.000 This is the one I told you about.
02:21:35.000 So the father of John Emery Whitaker and Gracie Whitaker are identical twins.
02:21:43.000 There you go.
02:21:44.000 Maybe the twins born March 1st, 1882. Yeah, so Henry Wade Whitaker and John Whitaker.
02:21:49.000 So the children of identical twins then had sex.
02:21:54.000 Who are also cousins.
02:21:56.000 Oh, Jesus.
02:21:57.000 Yeah.
02:22:02.000 So I posted that video, and they've become so popular.
02:22:06.000 People want more videos from them all the time, but I don't want to just turn them into a circus act.
02:22:10.000 But now their living conditions have improved.
02:22:11.000 Yeah, because of meeting me, I'm not saying I did any great thing.
02:22:20.000 All I'm just saying is I've helped them out.
02:22:24.000 But I'm not going to milk this and turn it into a regular thing.
02:22:26.000 People want to see them weekly.
02:22:27.000 I'm not going to do that.
02:22:29.000 Is that the most bizarre of all the people that you've encountered?
02:22:32.000 Oh, no.
02:22:33.000 I mean, yeah, probably the most, but man, I've heard so many stories.
02:22:39.000 So many women that got pregnant by their dads at 10 years old.
02:22:44.000 So many women that have been through some of the most horrific.
02:22:49.000 Men, too.
02:22:51.000 I mean, I could say some things here, but this video would get demonetized.
02:22:57.000 Well, we're on Spotify.
02:22:58.000 That's not going to happen.
02:22:59.000 Okay, so Latoya, who's this black girl, she's on Skid Row to this day. 1.00
02:23:04.000 I still see her.
02:23:05.000 I help her out when I see her sometimes. 1.00
02:23:08.000 She was getting fucked in the ass by her dad and tore the area between the vagina and the asshole. 1.00
02:23:19.000 She said, like, 27 stitches. 1.00
02:23:24.000 To fix that?
02:23:25.000 I mean, how that happens and the dad doesn't get...
02:23:27.000 Somebody doesn't get investigated, I don't know, but that was a different time, maybe.
02:23:31.000 Or somebody's just afraid to...
02:23:34.000 Who's going to make that call?
02:23:36.000 Who's going to do something?
02:23:37.000 So do you, when you, this new project, are you going to do this independently of Soft White Underbelly?
02:23:44.000 No, no, no.
02:23:44.000 It's not a new project.
02:23:45.000 It'd just be a slightly...
02:23:46.000 A different direction.
02:23:47.000 A different direction.
02:23:48.000 Because I can't, how many drug addict stories do we need?
02:23:49.000 Right, of course.
02:23:50.000 I mean, I'll do them once in a while still because a lot of my audience likes that.
02:23:53.000 But, you know, it's interesting because, like, I'll put up gang member videos and some of the audience is like, oh, I hate these gang members.
02:23:59.000 They're too violent.
02:24:01.000 I think there's similar lessons.
02:24:03.000 I've watched one of the gang member videos today and it's, you know, he was just talking about how no one ever encouraged him in any way when he was growing up. 0.75
02:24:12.000 He was never worth shit and the only sort of value that he found ever was being a part of the gang. 0.90
02:24:19.000 Yeah, that's the story. 0.97
02:24:20.000 That's what happens to these guys.
02:24:22.000 And then, you know, I put the Appalachian videos up and some people think they're boring and other people love them and that's, you know, they want more.
02:24:28.000 So I do a mixed bag of all kinds of stuff.
02:24:30.000 Eventually, I'd like to go to every state and just do interesting stories from all over.
02:24:34.000 And if someone has and they're listening to this and they have an interesting story...
02:24:39.000 They should contact you on softwhiteunderbelly.com?
02:24:42.000 No.
02:24:42.000 There's a website that's in the header of the YouTube channel.
02:24:46.000 There's an about section up at the top of the screen, I think, or near the top with my email address.
02:24:52.000 Okay.
02:24:52.000 Which is soft underscore white underscore underbelly at yahoo.com.
02:24:56.000 There you go.
02:24:56.000 Yeah.
02:24:56.000 Jamie's good.
02:24:58.000 And so, good luck sorting through all those.
02:25:01.000 No kidding.
02:25:02.000 Yeah.
02:25:02.000 After this.
02:25:03.000 After this, yeah.
02:25:04.000 Yeah.
02:25:04.000 But listen, what you've done is very fascinating and very disturbing, but I think ultimately educational.
02:25:11.000 And if anything, I think it will bring a sense of understanding of what these people have been through that, you know, you can't just say, hey, you're lazy, go get a job.
02:25:23.000 There's a lot going on.
02:25:25.000 And it's horrible.
02:25:28.000 And it's, you know, It's showing the flaws in this culture.
02:25:35.000 It's showing the massive problems that we have in raising human beings in these gigantic cities.
02:25:44.000 It's hard to believe this is the greatest country in the world with these stories.
02:25:48.000 How could that be the greatest country in the world?
02:25:50.000 Yeah, how could it be?
02:25:51.000 But it is. 0.99
02:25:51.000 That's what's even more fucked, right? 0.99
02:25:54.000 Well, thank you. 0.98
02:25:55.000 Thanks for being here.
02:25:56.000 I really appreciate it.
02:25:57.000 Thank you, Jeff.
02:25:57.000 Thanks for doing what you do.
02:25:59.000 It's been very disturbing, but ultimately very educational.
02:26:03.000 You do a great job, too.
02:26:04.000 Thank you very much.
02:26:05.000 Appreciate you.
02:26:05.000 All right.
02:26:06.000 Bye, everybody.