The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1943 - Joel Turner

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:13.000 What's up, Joel?

00:00:14.000 How are you?

00:00:15.000 Good to see you, brother.

00:00:15.000 I'm good.

00:00:16.000 Thanks for having me, man.

00:00:17.000 I'm very happy to talk to you because, you know, I think that what you teach applies to not just archery, but it applies to life, it applies to anxiety-filled situations, and you have figured out this one element Of archery that so many people can't seem to put their finger on.

00:00:40.000 And it's the anxiety of the shot.

00:00:43.000 You have figured this out in a way that is so useful, and it's so repeatable, and I think it's so important.

00:00:52.000 And I think a lot of people are going to go, you're going to just talk about archery shots?

00:00:56.000 I think this applies to life.

00:00:59.000 What you've done with your ShotIQ system, And so let me explain to people that don't understand this.

00:01:08.000 Bow hunting and archery, especially competitive archery, it oftentimes boils down to this one moment.

00:01:16.000 And when you have one moment and there's so much anxiety on this one moment, people have a tendency to panic and to rush through things.

00:01:26.000 And I think people have found that in life, in many situations, in different occupations, in different practices and disciplines.

00:01:33.000 This anticipation and anxiety of one moment where they lose their mind and they don't even remember what happened.

00:01:39.000 Right.

00:01:39.000 It's like ahhh!

00:01:40.000 And they can't keep their shit together. 1.00

00:01:42.000 You have figured out a way to make a system where you have very clear, defined guidelines that people can follow where they could stay in the moment and not lose their fucking mind at this moment of anticipation. 1.00

00:01:58.000 Right. 0.93

00:01:59.000 The success speaks to itself.

00:02:01.000 Your son, who's an incredible archer, who's been taught by you, using your methods, is now...

00:02:07.000 What is he number one in the world?

00:02:08.000 Well, the ranking system is weird, but he's won every major indoor archery event that there is.

00:02:17.000 And he's 15. Well, he just turned 16, yeah.

00:02:20.000 Oh, boy, he's old.

00:02:20.000 He's driving now, so that's scary as hell.

00:02:23.000 So...

00:02:24.000 He won Vegas at 15. I mean, he turned 15 the day before, and then he wins Vegas, which is the biggest indoor archery shoot there is.

00:02:33.000 It's huge.

00:02:34.000 Yeah.

00:02:34.000 And then just to watch him up there is just amazing to know that...

00:02:39.000 I mean, I can watch him.

00:02:40.000 I'm like, oh, yeah, this is going in, right?

00:02:43.000 Just you can see it in their eye.

00:02:44.000 And I see this in a lot of people that they don't have that look, you know?

00:02:49.000 It's...

00:02:50.000 They have that anxiety, that look.

00:02:53.000 It's like, oh, what's happening?

00:02:54.000 And they're just letting things happen.

00:02:56.000 And with Bodie, he's just like, this is going in.

00:02:59.000 It was so funny because he just won Lancaster, the Lancaster Classic, which is another huge indoor archery shoot.

00:03:05.000 And when you shoot Lancaster, you're in the practice range.

00:03:09.000 And he came in first seed because he shot the second ever—well, there's been, I think, five people now in history that have shot— Well, four people that have shot a 660 qualification round.

00:03:20.000 Now, let's explain what that means.

00:03:21.000 That is hitting a penny every time, 60 arrows in a row.

00:03:26.000 Which is insane.

00:03:27.000 At 20 yards.

00:03:28.000 The amount of concentration involved in that.

00:03:31.000 And a lot of people are like, 20 yards is not that far.

00:03:33.000 Listen.

00:03:34.000 It's a penny.

00:03:34.000 You're shooting a penny and you're shooting it 60 times in a row.

00:03:38.000 In a row, right. 0.99

00:03:39.000 Which is just the possibility of just a little fuck up. 0.63

00:03:44.000 And when you're at like number 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, and every one of them flop, flop, flop.

00:03:53.000 Yeah.

00:03:53.000 So he...

00:03:54.000 He shoots a 660. So he shot one last year, 660 last year.

00:03:58.000 So he was the third one in history to do it.

00:04:00.000 And then this year he did it again.

00:04:01.000 So now he's the first person in history to shoot two 660s back to back. 1.00

00:04:06.000 So then he gets, so he comes in the elimination rounds, wins those.

00:04:10.000 And so he comes in first seed for the big shoot off, which is you're up on a stage and it's just you, it's head to head.

00:04:16.000 So it's you and another person.

00:04:18.000 And, uh, When you start, you come in first seed, the person that's in front of you that maybe came in fourth, fifth, sixth, whatever, they get to shoot out on the stage against somebody.

00:04:29.000 So they actually get to zero their bow because the lighting's different and it's huge.

00:04:33.000 I mean, you're trying to hit this penny.

00:04:34.000 And then they have a 12 ring that's the size of their arrow.

00:04:38.000 Basically, it's like 27 diameter, 27 64th diameter.

00:04:42.000 It's no bigger than their arrow.

00:04:44.000 And that's off to the side.

00:04:45.000 And it's down below.

00:04:46.000 So if you miss that, you get a 7 or an 8 and you're out.

00:04:49.000 You're done at that point.

00:04:51.000 So he comes in first seed and he misses the X on a couple of them.

00:04:58.000 And then the other person misses the X. And it's funny because you can see him.

00:05:01.000 He's up there and he always clicks his sight.

00:05:04.000 And I'm like, how many clicks was that?

00:05:05.000 He's like, it was just enough.

00:05:08.000 I mean, he's like, you can't even tell what he does.

00:05:11.000 So he's just adjusting.

00:05:11.000 Yeah, so he's adjusting to the lighting.

00:05:15.000 And so he comes and he shoots those two 10s, not an X. And then he starts, then he hits an inside out.

00:05:23.000 And he looks, he turns, I'm in the coach's box behind him.

00:05:26.000 He turns to me and goes, it's sighted in now.

00:05:29.000 And I'm like, sweep the leg, boy.

00:05:31.000 Right?

00:05:32.000 That's what I always tell you.

00:05:33.000 Sweep the leg.

00:05:34.000 And it was just donut after donut after that.

00:05:37.000 And then the other guy caught up, shot a 12 to catch him.

00:05:40.000 And so now they got three-arrow shoot-off.

00:05:42.000 And the first arrow is for score.

00:05:45.000 And they have that 12 ring.

00:05:47.000 And Bodie's sitting there listening to the guy.

00:05:49.000 And Bodie's got his stabilizer, because everybody usually steps, there's a red button on the stage.

00:05:53.000 If you hit that red button, you then, you know, then it's a 12. Then you've got to shoot for the 12. So he hits the red button, but he hits it with a stabilizer.

00:06:01.000 So the guy's explaining the shoot-off, and Bodie's just hovering his stabilizer over, just looking at the guy, right?

00:06:06.000 And he's like, are you done yet?

00:06:07.000 Are you done yet?

00:06:08.000 And finally just dunk, and he hits that red button with a stabilizer, and then just shoots a 12. And the other guy missed the 12, so it was pretty cool.

00:06:15.000 Wow.

00:06:15.000 Yeah, it was awesome to see.

00:06:17.000 Tell everybody your background.

00:06:18.000 How did you get into this?

00:06:20.000 Tell your background with SWAT and all that.

00:06:24.000 So I started shooting at a really young age, but I was obsessed with shooting.

00:06:29.000 I have two older brothers, and when we turned nine years old, my dad would buy us a BB gun.

00:06:35.000 And my two older brothers didn't shoot them that much.

00:06:37.000 I broke both of their BB guns. 0.66

00:06:39.000 I shot them so much.

00:06:40.000 So when I turned nine, I got a Daisy 880 power line.

00:06:43.000 By God, that is some highfalutin stuff, right, for me.

00:06:46.000 So I get this 880 power line.

00:06:48.000 I shot it so much, I broke it.

00:06:50.000 Air rifles,.22 long rifles, I was good, right?

00:06:54.000 You put me on a centerfire rifle like my dad did when I was five years old shooting a.30-30.

00:06:59.000 I was worthless. 0.99

00:07:01.000 As soon as you get your sight on, man, I would just hammer the crap out of that trigger. 0.99

00:07:06.000 And that followed me through adolescence, early teens, 20s, right? 0.98

00:07:11.000 So we should explain that hammering is like you're jerking the trigger.

00:07:15.000 You're jerking the trigger, which...

00:07:17.000 Anxiety.

00:07:18.000 Yeah.

00:07:18.000 So now I know that that's the core problem in shooting, right?

00:07:21.000 Your mind will not allow you to cause your body impact as a surprise.

00:07:26.000 And it took me a lifetime to figure out what the true problem was.

00:07:30.000 And that's where everybody's kind of skipped around it.

00:07:32.000 So there I am at five years old shooting this 30-30.

00:07:35.000 Oh, I pressed the trigger perfectly one time.

00:07:37.000 And as soon as I felt that recoil the second time, when I racked that lever and I shot it the second time, I guarantee you, I closed my eyes, clenched my body as I pressed the trigger.

00:07:48.000 So you're worried about the recoil.

00:07:50.000 Yeah, it all gets linked together.

00:07:51.000 It's smoke, fire, noise, all kinds of negative things that happen, right?

00:07:55.000 And I was experiencing the same thing in archery.

00:07:58.000 I started shooting a bow when I was seven.

00:08:00.000 And by the age of eight, I'm locked completely off a target, meaning I would draw the bow back and the targets level with me and I'm aiming at the floor, right?

00:08:11.000 And then you would jump that thing up as we see many archers do now.

00:08:15.000 They're locked off target.

00:08:16.000 They jump up and let the string go at the same time.

00:08:18.000 It all gets linked together so that your body can brace you for impact.

00:08:22.000 And people don't see archery as an explosion.

00:08:24.000 They see it as, well, it's just shooting a bow, right?

00:08:28.000 Shot anticipation or shot control is a lot easier with a firearm because the explosion happens in the apparatus.

00:08:35.000 It imparts recoil on you, but it's not actually—the explosion is in the apparatus, whereas in archery, the explosion is in your body, right?

00:08:44.000 It's that sudden release of energy that happens, so shot anticipation with archery is a hundredfold what it is with a firearm.

00:08:50.000 It's also the amount of movement changes so much where the arrow goes because it's not going as fast and it's subject to all your little tweaks.

00:09:00.000 Right, all the little nuances of it.

00:09:01.000 So all those motor programs that get linked to that punching of the trigger, that's what deviates our point of impact.

00:09:08.000 So there I was at eight years old just loving archery watching that arrow fly, but not good at it, right?

00:09:15.000 So then I started bow hunting at 14 years old and not doing well.

00:09:19.000 I mean, I was locked off target on these critters and missing and missing and missing.

00:09:24.000 It took me 13 years to kill a bull elk with my bow because I couldn't handle it. 1.00

00:09:29.000 I just would lose my shit completely. 1.00

00:09:32.000 Like many, many, many people. 1.00

00:09:33.000 Oh, it was horrible.

00:09:34.000 So that was my background.

00:09:36.000 So I've got this sounding board of bow hunting, where I'm failing.

00:09:40.000 I've got rifle hunting, where I'm failing.

00:09:43.000 And then I decided to become a cop, right?

00:09:46.000 Well, before I was a cop, I was a wildlife specialist for USDA Wildlife Services, where I got to shoot stuff every day, right?

00:09:53.000 Animal damage control, all that stuff.

00:09:55.000 And I got to shoot stuff every day with an air rifle.

00:09:58.000 So I was good, right?

00:10:00.000 And shotgun shooting, good at that, right? 0.95

00:10:03.000 But when it came to precision rifle stuff, again, I was worthless.

00:10:07.000 I was not your guy.

00:10:08.000 To be on a coyote contract, when you're having to shoot coyotes in the middle of a city with a suppressed.243, right?

00:10:14.000 It just wouldn't work out for me.

00:10:16.000 Because as soon as I would get on that thing, my only thought process was, it's going to get away.

00:10:21.000 It's going to get away.

00:10:22.000 So that would cause that anxiety, that rush, and you would rush the shot.

00:10:27.000 So there I was, then I decided to become a cop.

00:10:30.000 My older brother was a cop, my mom was in law enforcement, so I decided to be a cop.

00:10:34.000 And at the range, I knew that, you know, when I turned 21, first thing I did was bought my concealed weapons permit in Washington, bought a pistol.

00:10:45.000 And for some reason that pistol always shot low and left.

00:10:48.000 I'm like, what is the deal with these sights?

00:10:50.000 Right?

00:10:50.000 It's always shooting low and left.

00:10:52.000 So I get in the academy and I bought a different pistol.

00:10:56.000 I bought a 1911 that's got a much shorter trigger stroke on it.

00:11:00.000 And I basically fixed a mental problem with mechanical means at that point because I got through the academy starting to realize what I needed to do to control a shot.

00:11:08.000 But with that pistol it was easy.

00:11:11.000 And my buddy was so bad in the academy with his Glock that he had to then—he bought my pistol from me because that's the only thing that got him through the academy was buying my pistol from me.

00:11:22.000 I bought another one, so we both fixed our mental problem with mechanical means.

00:11:26.000 And I ended up taking first in firearms in my academy class, not knowing how I did it.

00:11:33.000 But that's where I started to feel this love for instruction because I got to help some people with it.

00:11:40.000 And so things progressed.

00:11:42.000 Two years in law enforcement, then I got a firearms instructor because I had this interest in firearms and kind of figuring things out.

00:11:50.000 And then I got on the SWAT team, same time, 2003. So that's, you know, I spent 18 plus years on the SWAT team and ended up being the sniper team leader and then eventually the team leader for the team.

00:12:05.000 I think?

00:12:25.000 And it came to me one day.

00:12:27.000 It was just totally by accident because I'd heard all the normal stuff in firearms instruction.

00:12:31.000 Front sight, front sight, front sight.

00:12:33.000 You know, you stare at your front sight hard enough and things are just going to work out for you.

00:12:37.000 Well, that just doesn't happen because in most gunfights, most people will tell you they never even see their sights.

00:12:42.000 So, I had this recruit that we call, we had one in every class, we call him Nervous Nelly, right?

00:12:49.000 I mean, this guy was just super anxious, and you can tell the different personalities that people have.

00:12:54.000 Just when you put a gun in their hand, they're nervous, and this cat, all these movements were super fast, and he was just a jittery dude, right?

00:13:01.000 Nervous Nelly.

00:13:03.000 And he's shooting 20 yards, and he's bouncing bullets off the floor at 15. So his rounds are hitting the 15-yard line.

00:13:12.000 And I'm like, oh, my God.

00:13:14.000 You know, it doesn't put a lot of confidence in the police force.

00:13:18.000 So I go over to this kid, and I call him a kid.

00:13:21.000 He was probably, I don't know, eight years younger than me or whatever.

00:13:23.000 And I get on the driver's side of his pistol.

00:13:26.000 I'm looking at his finger.

00:13:27.000 I'm like, okay.

00:13:29.000 I want you to press the trigger just to the pressure wall.

00:13:32.000 Don't make it go off.

00:13:33.000 He's like, okay, yes, sir.

00:13:35.000 And as soon as I got done with that instruction, his finger moved right to the pressure wall.

00:13:40.000 I'm like, okay, start pressing the trigger, but don't make the gun go off.

00:13:46.000 And so as soon as I saw his finger move, I start talking to him.

00:13:49.000 All right, keep pressing, keep pressing, keep pressing, keep pressing.

00:13:53.000 And as I'm watching his finger, I'm looking at this and I'm like, it's moving at the same rate I'm talking.

00:14:01.000 And he's working through it and all of a sudden, pow, it goes off to the surprise right through the 10 ring and the target.

00:14:07.000 He's like, sir, that scared the crap out of me.

00:14:09.000 I'm like, yeah, it's supposed to.

00:14:12.000 So then the next time, he shoots again, and I changed my cadence of speech, which changed his cadence of movement, and that's when the light bulb went off for me.

00:14:21.000 I'm like, okay, we've got to figure this out.

00:14:23.000 I had complete control of this kid's mind at this time, but I had to get him to do that.

00:14:29.000 And that's where this whole thing started into neuro-linguistic programming and all the sciences that we went down the rabbit holes on to really figure this stuff out.

00:14:38.000 And so what did you learn from neuro-linguistic programming that applied?

00:14:44.000 Because I didn't know what that was.

00:14:46.000 I'm just a simple guy.

00:14:48.000 Can we get coffee in here?

00:14:50.000 I didn't know what that was, and so I have lots of very smart friends, and so one of the doctors that was on a sniper crew for a neighboring agency, he was their ER doc, because most SWAT teams have an ER doc that's assigned to the team.

00:15:09.000 And so I'm training him in some of this stuff, and he's like, oh, that's neuro-linguistic programming.

00:15:15.000 I'm like, stand by, doc.

00:15:17.000 That's a big word, right?

00:15:18.000 I got to know what that is.

00:15:19.000 So I started looking into that, and it was mostly like Tony Robbins, self-help, get yourself out of addiction, you know, get yourself out of the gutter type stuff.

00:15:29.000 But what I took it as is it was the route to concentration.

00:15:32.000 Because what you say is what you think.

00:15:35.000 And I needed people to think and to concentrate on a specific movement.

00:15:41.000 What I'm asking people to do is just shy of impossible.

00:15:48.000 I'm asking you to override your own central nervous system with concentration.

00:15:52.000 That is just shy of impossible, but it's not impossible if you know exactly how to do it.

00:15:58.000 But when I ask that question of all the people that I train, it's like, how do you concentrate?

00:16:04.000 And nobody has the answer.

00:16:05.000 They tell me, well, you have to focus.

00:16:07.000 You have to block things out.

00:16:09.000 You have to do this, do that.

00:16:10.000 How?

00:16:10.000 They never tell me how to do it.

00:16:12.000 I'm like, yes, that is concentration for you, but how do you do it?

00:16:16.000 Especially, how do you do it when somebody's trying to kill you?

00:16:20.000 How do you get that singular minded?

00:16:23.000 And that was the big question.

00:16:24.000 So that's what I took from neurolinguistic programming.

00:16:28.000 And so I wrote what is called the Mental Mechanics and Instructor's Guide.

00:16:32.000 And it had kind of the sequence of drills and how to get somebody's mind into this.

00:16:37.000 And there was a guy at the academy that we did not like each other.

00:16:42.000 And for some reason, he was a kinesthesiologist or Almost.

00:16:47.000 He was a big martial arts guy, knew movements, knew how to train movements.

00:16:51.000 And he came to me one day when he became the head of the firearms program.

00:16:59.000 He came to me one day and said, what you're doing works, but it's not right.

00:17:03.000 I'm like, okay.

00:17:05.000 I need to know what's right then.

00:17:07.000 So he goes, you've got to take my class.

00:17:09.000 I'm like, okay.

00:17:10.000 Sign me up!

00:17:11.000 So in that class is where I learned about open and closed loop control systems.

00:17:16.000 I learned about visual proprioception, how you actually aim and how you don't have to put consciousness into an aim.

00:17:23.000 Let's explain open and closed Yeah.

00:17:26.000 Loop systems.

00:17:26.000 So open and closed loop.

00:17:29.000 So open loop is where...

00:17:31.000 It's a control system in your mind that governs your movements.

00:17:35.000 And open loop is where your mind wants to go because it's efficient, it's smooth, it's automatic, right?

00:17:41.000 So when you first learn a movement...

00:17:43.000 You may learn it in steps and it's very choppy and you have to think about each specific motor program that you're doing, but then you eventually put that into a package through practice, right?

00:17:54.000 So we go from the cognitive stage of learning to practice stage with the goal of becoming automatic.

00:18:00.000 And that's where people, they do the same thing with shooting, but in shooting, the only thing you're getting more efficient at is bracing you for recoil.

00:18:08.000 You're not getting more accurate.

00:18:10.000 I mean, there's 80-year-old dudes that come into my class that have been doing it this way for 70 years, and they just get worse, right?

00:18:20.000 Shooting is one of the only things, the more you do it, the worse you get, especially in archery.

00:18:26.000 If you're doing it wrong.

00:18:27.000 Yeah.

00:18:28.000 If you just follow the natural path of the human mind and learning, you're going to get worse because you're going to get more efficient.

00:18:35.000 Your subconscious thinks you're getting better because you're getting better at bracing for impact.

00:18:39.000 That's what it's built for.

00:18:41.000 But consciously, we know, like, uh, I didn't control that one.

00:18:45.000 And then it's like, well, I control about 50% of them.

00:18:47.000 And then it just gets worse and worse.

00:18:49.000 So your mind open loop means your brain.

00:18:53.000 Huberman's going to kill me for this because this is so simplistic.

00:18:57.000 I'm sure he gets way into this.

00:18:58.000 But open loop is your brain sends a motor program to the effector.

00:19:03.000 The effector is just the muscle group that receives it.

00:19:06.000 So in that, the motor program is usually too fast for you to gain feedback in it, like shooting a basketball, swinging a golf club, right?

00:19:16.000 Those are all movements that have to be smooth to keep the totality of the movement going.

00:19:22.000 But in shooting, if you use open loop for the trigger, it's too fast, and you're not doing anything to mitigate all the other muscle contractions that are coming in to brace you for impact, right?

00:19:35.000 So it's the flinch.

00:19:36.000 It's all that stuff that gets put in there.

00:19:38.000 And so that's open loop.

00:19:40.000 That's where your mind wants to go.

00:19:42.000 It's the default.

00:19:43.000 If you don't think about something, you're going open loop.

00:19:46.000 Like when people black out and stuff, they go super efficient on the trigger.

00:19:49.000 They don't remember what happened because it was a negative event and it was all subconsciously driven.

00:19:54.000 Now, closed loop is a movement that's slow enough you could stop it anywhere within it, right?

00:20:01.000 There's a certain speed at which you can gain the feedback that you need to, say like in the signature test or if you're pressing a trigger, right?

00:20:08.000 Or if you're working your hinge, you're working that thing slow enough and you're concentrating on the movement and you're working it slow enough, you could stop it anywhere within it.

00:20:17.000 And that just doesn't happen.

00:20:20.000 It has to be decided upon, right?

00:20:22.000 And that's the big kicker.

00:20:23.000 That's where people try to jump over the problem because you have to decide.

00:20:29.000 If you're doing a movement that's going to cause an explosion and you're trying to do it slow enough you could stop it, That will never just find you.

00:20:38.000 You have to concentrate on that movement.

00:20:40.000 So you got to know how do you concentrate, right?

00:20:43.000 Well, you got to talk yourself through it.

00:20:45.000 And you got to know what decisions you need to make at what moments in the shot because there are moments in the shot when autopilot is going to try to take it, right?

00:20:54.000 And that's what happened to me for 13 years in my bow hunting career.

00:20:57.000 From 14 to 27, I was going completely automatic, right?

00:21:02.000 I was so engulfed in trying to kill that critter or aiming good or whatever it may be.

00:21:10.000 My mind was never in the movement that it needed to be.

00:21:14.000 So that's the difference between open and closed loop.

00:21:17.000 And when that guy told me what you're doing works but it's not right, he taught me about open and closed loop control systems.

00:21:24.000 But what he never taught me and what I noticed from all the textbooks and all the stuff that we did, it had never really been put into shooting.

00:21:33.000 It had never truly been put into shooting.

00:21:35.000 So he kept asking me, what's this decision you keep talking about?

00:21:38.000 What's this decision?

00:21:40.000 I said, well, you have to decide to go closed loop.

00:21:42.000 It's not just going to happen.

00:21:43.000 He's like, I don't think so.

00:21:45.000 I'm like, let's go to the range.

00:21:46.000 Right?

00:21:47.000 So we go to the range, and he did the same thing that everybody else did.

00:21:50.000 He couldn't get himself to go closed loop because he just kept trying to do it.

00:21:55.000 And he understood this.

00:21:56.000 He understood it, but he didn't understand the mental portion of it.

00:22:00.000 Because everything that he'd ever taught was basically closed loop to start with because it's always martial arts movements.

00:22:06.000 It was always closed loop to start and then you move into open loop and that's the good stuff, right?

00:22:12.000 Whereas in shooting, that's why we use shooting for such concentration practice because there's nothing like it.

00:22:18.000 There's really nothing like it.

00:22:20.000 I'm glad you brought up martial arts because martial arts is closed loop when you're learning it.

00:22:24.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:25.000 And then open loop and application.

00:22:27.000 So you learn all these movements and then in the fight, things just happen.

00:22:32.000 Right.

00:22:32.000 You just throw the kick and you don't even know what's happening.

00:22:34.000 Right.

00:22:35.000 It's happening and you're...

00:22:36.000 You're staying in this sort of empty zen mind space where you're just trying to utilize the techniques and know you know what to do.

00:22:46.000 Your body's trained and then you react and you move accordingly.

00:22:49.000 Right.

00:22:50.000 But the problem with that is that is the worst mindset possible for bow hunting.

00:22:54.000 Yes.

00:22:55.000 Which is crazy.

00:22:56.000 It's completely opposite, right?

00:22:58.000 Now getting yourself to concentrate, and martial arts has used mantras for thousands of years, right?

00:23:05.000 This sound means this, this sound increases power, whatever it does.

00:23:08.000 So you're talking yourself through it, but when it comes to the actual application of the action like you're talking, you can't get conscious with it.

00:23:17.000 You have to keep your conscious mind out of it.

00:23:20.000 It's the science of choking, right?

00:23:23.000 So the basketball player, he's shooting a free throw, and he's got this routine, right? 0.98

00:23:28.000 He spins the ball, bounces it three times, shakes his ass a little bit, and then he shoots, right? 0.96

00:23:33.000 Well, then it comes to the game winner. 1.00

00:23:35.000 He spins the ball, he bounces it three times, shakes his butt. 0.92

00:23:39.000 Okay, I got to break the wrist perfectly.

00:23:41.000 And so he adds consciousness to a movement that should be open loop, and that's why they missed the game winner, right?

00:23:48.000 Just like Bodie shooting the 60th arrow for his 660, that's where most people screw up because they change their thought process, right?

00:23:58.000 Well, with shooting and what we teach, it's how do you stay in that shot process no matter what, right?

00:24:06.000 So...

00:24:07.000 It applies to so many things.

00:24:09.000 Ah, it does.

00:24:10.000 You know, it really applies to pool.

00:24:11.000 Yeah.

00:24:12.000 In a huge way.

00:24:13.000 You know, I play pool a lot and there's shots that are difficult shots and they're game-winning shots and you have to stay in that moment.

00:24:24.000 You can't go, I hope I don't miss. 0.99

00:24:26.000 If you say, I hope I don't miss, you miss every fucking time. 0.99

00:24:29.000 Right. 0.98

00:24:30.000 You have to stay in the movement, and you have to do exactly what you teach with archery.

00:24:35.000 You have to say, here I go.

00:24:37.000 You have to do your warm-up strokes.

00:24:39.000 You have to make sure the shaft is going in a direction that you want the cue ball to travel.

00:24:44.000 And then you have to go, here I go, and release.

00:24:47.000 And you have to know that you're shooting a perfect shot. 0.98

00:24:51.000 And you can still miss, because it's fucking hard. 0.97

00:24:53.000 But at least you're missing the right way. 0.98

00:24:56.000 And the problem is, with me, On this journey, 2008, I shot the first controlled shot I'd really ever shot on a game animal.

00:25:08.000 But I didn't blueprint it.

00:25:09.000 And that's the problem.

00:25:11.000 How so?

00:25:12.000 What do you mean?

00:25:12.000 People have success.

00:25:14.000 Like, they won the game with that shot.

00:25:17.000 But they don't blueprint how they did it, so they can't possibly repeat it.

00:25:21.000 It's a mystery, right? 0.98

00:25:22.000 So in 2008, I shot this big old hog, and I shot him like, oh, yay me! 0.98

00:25:28.000 I finally controlled myself on a shot. 0.98

00:25:31.000 But I never blueprinted it.

00:25:33.000 So 2009 comes along.

00:25:35.000 I shot a couple bulls in 2009. One in New Mexico, one in Arizona.

00:25:39.000 Punched the crap out of the trigger on both those bulls. 0.96

00:25:41.000 Just got lucky. 0.85

00:25:42.000 But I was successful, right?

00:25:45.000 2010 comes along.

00:25:46.000 I shot my first controlled shot on an elk with my longbow.

00:25:50.000 41 yards with my longbow.

00:25:51.000 It was the most gorgeous aero flight.

00:25:54.000 I mean, it was perfect.

00:25:55.000 But I never blueprinted it.

00:25:57.000 It was just another yay me moment, right?

00:26:00.000 So 2011, 12, 13, and 14 come along, and I killed a bunch of critters in that time frame, but I wasn't controlling my shot still.

00:26:11.000 But I was at least present enough to be aiming and all those things, but I still wasn't getting through my shot, essentially punching the trigger.

00:26:18.000 So December 14, 2014 was my big, that was, I shot a big black-tailed buck, and I didn't control my shot.

00:26:27.000 I shot him at 8 yards, shot him right in the heart, and it was raining, and it was right before dark, and I'm like, I was happy that I shot the buck good, but...

00:26:38.000 I was pissed because I didn't control my shot again and realized that by this time I'd been a SWAT sniper since 2003, right?

00:26:46.000 Scared to death.

00:26:48.000 Scared to death on how it was going to go because all that time between 2003 and 2014, thank God I didn't get in any tactical situations where I had to actually press a trigger because it would have been just like a coyote.

00:27:03.000 I guarantee you it would have been just like a coyote and that's where a lot of cops are these days.

00:27:07.000 They don't know what's coming and they don't know how to control themselves at this moment of truth.

00:27:13.000 So I've got this sounding board of bow hunting where I'm still, some are good, some are not good.

00:27:20.000 It's still a mystery to me because I never blueprinted it, right?

00:27:23.000 So December 14, 2014, I shot that buck and I was pissed and I sat in my tree stand.

00:27:30.000 Now it's dark and it's raining.

00:27:31.000 I'm like, I got to figure this out.

00:27:33.000 Because it's just a ticking time bomb in the tactical world for me to be in a tactical situation.

00:27:39.000 So I sat there in that tree stand like, what was it about that shot in 2008?

00:27:44.000 And what was it about that shot in 2010 when I actually controlled myself?

00:27:49.000 And I was so conscious in those two shots that I'm like, it was the decisions.

00:27:56.000 It was the decisions that I made.

00:27:58.000 Because I remember on the hog in 2008, I drew back and I had the same anxiety and all the craziness going on.

00:28:06.000 It was the same feeling of weakness that I wasn't going to perform well, but I was at full draw.

00:28:11.000 Now I'm locked off target, which hadn't happened in a long time.

00:28:14.000 But I was so conscious in that shot, for some reason, I don't know if I was pissed off or what it was, but I went, I ain't doing this again.

00:28:23.000 And I let that shot down.

00:28:24.000 And the next time I drew my bow back, I'm like, I'm shooting this shot perfectly or I'm not shooting it at all.

00:28:31.000 And that was the first time that it ever meant more to me to stay in the shot process than to actually kill the critter.

00:28:39.000 And that was a huge thing for me.

00:28:40.000 But again, I never blueprinted it.

00:28:42.000 And then I remember on that hog, so the second time I drew my bow back...

00:28:46.000 Before I drew my bow back, I said, I'm shooting this shot perfectly or I'm not shooting it at all.

00:28:51.000 And I started to draw my bow back.

00:28:52.000 And as I drew my bow back, I felt it slipping again, right?

00:28:55.000 And I said, nah, I'm going to do this right.

00:28:58.000 That was another decision that I made, which upped my presence.

00:29:01.000 Didn't know that at the time, but that upped my presence.

00:29:03.000 So I got the full draw.

00:29:05.000 Now I'm aimed exactly where I need to aim.

00:29:07.000 All I gotta do is let the arrow go.

00:29:08.000 It's aimed perfectly.

00:29:09.000 All I gotta do is let the arrow go. 0.99

00:29:11.000 But because I'd upped my presence so much, I remembered, oh yeah, stupid, you gotta pull through the clicker, right? 0.95

00:29:18.000 Had a little clicker device on my longbow, which when you expand through that, it clicks, mechanoreceptive trigger, all that stuff. 0.95

00:29:26.000 So I'm at full draw.

00:29:29.000 Here I go.

00:29:30.000 That was the first time I'd ever said, here I go, in a shot.

00:29:34.000 I said, here I go.

00:29:35.000 And that reminded me, oh yeah, I'm supposed to talk myself through this, right?

00:29:39.000 This is 2008, so I was starting to figure some stuff out in the firearms world.

00:29:43.000 Keep pulling, keep pulling, keep pulling, keep pulling, click, boom, I shot that shot.

00:29:48.000 It was perfect.

00:29:49.000 But again, like I said, never blueprinted it.

00:29:51.000 2010 comes along.

00:29:53.000 Same thing.

00:29:54.000 I'm behind this screen of pines.

00:29:56.000 There was a hole.

00:29:57.000 This bull comes down.

00:29:58.000 Water hole.

00:29:58.000 Turns broadside.

00:29:59.000 Looks the other way.

00:30:00.000 My buddy gives me numbers.

00:30:01.000 He says 41. I'm like, at 41, I know I've got to put my point 18 inches over that bull's back.

00:30:07.000 And so I remember I'm on my knees.

00:30:10.000 I'm like, I'm shooting this shot perfectly or I ain't going to shoot it at all.

00:30:14.000 Up my presence.

00:30:16.000 Made that decision.

00:30:16.000 What we call the original decision.

00:30:18.000 Started drawing my bow back.

00:30:20.000 Felt it slipping again, right?

00:30:21.000 And you know that feeling where it starts to go.

00:30:23.000 You're like, nah.

00:30:24.000 I'm like, nah, I'm going to do this right.

00:30:26.000 I got the full draw.

00:30:27.000 I put that point 18 inches over his back.

00:30:29.000 Here I go.

00:30:30.000 Keep pulling, keep pulling, keep pulling, click, boom!

00:30:33.000 I shot that arrow.

00:30:34.000 I can see it to this day.

00:30:35.000 It was just gorgeous.

00:30:36.000 I mean, I X-ringed him at 41 yards with my longbow.

00:30:39.000 It was so cool.

00:30:40.000 But again, I didn't blueprint it.

00:30:41.000 So sitting in that tree stand in December of 2014, that's when I said, I got to figure this out.

00:30:50.000 And that's what I figured out was the decisions.

00:30:52.000 I mapped the decisions it took to keep myself present so that I could concentrate.

00:30:59.000 And that day I said, I'm never doing it again.

00:31:02.000 I'm never shooting another uncontrolled shot on a critter or whatever it was.

00:31:07.000 You know, I'm still a cop at that point.

00:31:09.000 And I'm like, I'm going to do it right.

00:31:10.000 No matter what.

00:31:12.000 No matter what.

00:31:13.000 And so what was the process of figuring out a repeatable blueprint?

00:31:18.000 Okay.

00:31:19.000 The blueprint was, so I started thinking about this so that I could actually blueprint these things.

00:31:25.000 I'm like, okay, what is it?

00:31:27.000 The blueprint is this.

00:31:28.000 It's four questions.

00:31:29.000 So when you shoot that perfect shot, Question number one, what was I thinking about after Here I Go?

00:31:36.000 Because all the stuff up to Here I Go is pretty much the setup of the shot.

00:31:39.000 You've got your aim, you've got tensions, maybe you roll to the click in your hinge.

00:31:44.000 What am I thinking about after Here I Go?

00:31:46.000 And what you need to be thinking about is nothing other than that shot activation movement.

00:31:50.000 What is the movement that's going to cause this explosion?

00:31:54.000 Where do I need to put my concentration?

00:31:55.000 It's got to be in nothing other than the movement.

00:31:58.000 But you'll find in archery and shooting, most shooting sports, people leave their thought process in the aim where it does you no good, right?

00:32:05.000 So question number one, what was I thinking about after here I go?

00:32:09.000 Question number two, what was I saying after here I go?

00:32:12.000 What words or sounds did you use to guide your concentration?

00:32:16.000 So you now know what you need to be thinking.

00:32:18.000 You know exactly what you need to be saying or what sound you're using, if it's a hum or an audible exhale or whatever it may be.

00:32:26.000 Question number three, could I have stopped it?

00:32:29.000 Were you so keenly concentrated on your shot activation movement that you could have stopped it anywhere within it?

00:32:35.000 And if you can say yes to that, that's a big ask, right?

00:32:38.000 But if you can say yes, I could have stopped it, that means that you were truly in a closed loop control system.

00:32:44.000 And the only way to get into that is by having enough determination to make a decision so that you're present, so that you can concentrate.

00:32:52.000 So those are the fundamentals of precision shooting, right?

00:32:56.000 So what am I thinking after here I go?

00:32:59.000 What am I saying after here I go?

00:33:01.000 Could I have stopped it?

00:33:02.000 And finally, what decisions did I make to get myself in the process for this one decision?

00:33:07.000 Because it all only lasts for one shot.

00:33:10.000 And then your mind completely resets it like, I didn't like that.

00:33:13.000 You surprised me with an explosion.

00:33:15.000 Got me this time.

00:33:16.000 Not happening again.

00:33:17.000 So you have to go through the same process over and over and over.

00:33:21.000 And the decisions get easier to make.

00:33:24.000 But they still have to be made.

00:33:25.000 Well, this is why I think this is important and this applies to so many things in life because so many movements and things and actions in life are...

00:33:39.000 Sort of powered by anxiety.

00:33:41.000 Mm-hmm.

00:33:42.000 They're powered by like, you spaz out because you're not in the moment.

00:33:47.000 You're just reacting.

00:33:49.000 Right.

00:33:49.000 Whereas what you're doing and what you're teaching with archery and what I've learned from you is that if I say to myself while I'm shooting, if I'm talking to myself and I go through this whole list,

00:34:05.000 center the bubble, center the site, You know, relax the shoulder, draw, pull, pull, pull, release.

00:34:15.000 And when it releases, I'm in control of the whole thing from top.

00:34:19.000 And there's all these anxiety-driven thoughts that just, get it out!

00:34:25.000 Go! 0.95

00:34:25.000 Just do this! 0.95

00:34:26.000 He's gonna get away!

00:34:27.000 Something's gonna happen!

00:34:28.000 You're gonna miss!

00:34:29.000 But if you stay in your own thought process and talk to yourself, so like when I'm at full draw on an animal, I'm like pull, pull, pull, plop. 0.98

00:34:40.000 All I'm thinking of is these mechanics of making that shot release instead of all that other shit.

00:34:46.000 By forcing myself to say pull, pull, pull at the final things I eliminate. 0.99

00:34:53.000 Any possibility of shit going wrong, because all I'm thinking of is those words. 0.53

00:34:57.000 All I'm thinking of is that movement and those words, and it's magic. 0.99

00:35:02.000 And so many people in the world of bow hunting don't know this.

00:35:08.000 More people know this now because of you, but I remember when I first found your stuff online, I was like, Okay, this makes sense, because I knew it was a mindfuck, and I was shocked at how mindfucky it is, because I'm a martial artist,

00:35:24.000 so I'm used to just reacting to things.

00:35:26.000 I'm used to relying on training and just moving automatically, but you cannot do that with archery.

00:35:34.000 It requires stillness And calmness and being centered and in the moment in a very unusual way.

00:35:42.000 That's like pool.

00:35:43.000 And that moment of everything relying on this one thing that you're doing.

00:35:50.000 Yeah.

00:35:51.000 All your success and failure. 0.99

00:35:53.000 You might have shot thousands of arrows in practice, but that doesn't mean jack shit. 0.94

00:35:57.000 Right now you have to get this one arrow out perfect. 0.92

00:36:00.000 Right.

00:36:02.000 It might be a giant animal that's a screaming bull and you're shooting through a window of two trees that's 12 inches wide and 50 yards away. 0.99

00:36:10.000 And you're like, holy shit. 0.99

00:36:12.000 There's so much. 0.99

00:36:13.000 Oh, don't hit the tree. 0.93

00:36:14.000 Oh, don't fuck this up. 0.99

00:36:16.000 Oh, you fucked it up last time. 1.00

00:36:18.000 You can fuck it up again. 1.00

00:36:19.000 Don't miss. 0.99

00:36:20.000 And all those different things.

00:36:21.000 If you just...

00:36:23.000 Have this thought process in your head, going through your pre-shot routine perfectly, pulling back on the bow, centering your bubble, centering your pee, pull, pull, pull, swap!

00:36:39.000 It just goes off.

00:36:40.000 Yeah.

00:36:40.000 It's just so unnatural.

00:36:44.000 For you to control an explosion.

00:36:46.000 There's also this thing where you want to pretend like you know how to do it now.

00:36:50.000 Like, I got it.

00:36:51.000 I got this.

00:36:52.000 I don't have to think about that anymore.

00:36:54.000 I don't get target panic anymore.

00:36:56.000 I've got this. 1.00

00:36:57.000 But if you do, you'll mindfuck yourself and then it'll happen again. 1.00

00:37:02.000 Oh, absolutely. 1.00

00:37:02.000 It's waiting. 1.00

00:37:03.000 It's the default.

00:37:05.000 You punching the trigger is the default.

00:37:07.000 And we watch this all the time with professional archers.

00:37:09.000 Their career does this, right?

00:37:11.000 It's up and down.

00:37:13.000 And to a point where people sometimes are like, oh, the commentator's like, oh, God, right?

00:37:19.000 Because their thumb's not even on the button, right?

00:37:22.000 Like, oh, my God, if he can just get his thumb on the button, he'll be okay.

00:37:26.000 Right?

00:37:26.000 And it's like, man.

00:37:27.000 And then they superweight their bow because they don't necessarily understand how their eye actually works.

00:37:32.000 And they use stabilizers to calm their mind.

00:37:35.000 And it's just, it's completely opposite of how things actually work in your mind.

00:37:41.000 But when you think about the history of instruction itself, I mean, archery is a martial art in some cultures, right?

00:37:50.000 Yes, it is a martial art.

00:37:51.000 I think of it as a martial art.

00:37:53.000 But when you look at some of the texts that are associated with that, it's this blank-mindedness and all this stuff.

00:37:59.000 However, most of those cultures use what's called a mechanoreceptive trigger.

00:38:07.000 And people never knew about it, right?

00:38:08.000 Why is it in keto archery that the tip of the arrow is so much bigger than the arrow, than the arrow shaft itself?

00:38:15.000 And in those old texts, the arrow is not ready to be loosed until the point touches the knuckle, right?

00:38:22.000 So mechanoreceptors, I'm sure you know this, but they're sensory receptors in your skin cells that give stimulus.

00:38:29.000 So like if you and I are sitting here, BS, and I put my hand down on a hot stove, The mechanoreceptors and the skin cells of my hand send this to my brain.

00:38:36.000 That's hot.

00:38:37.000 My brain then sends the motor program that gets my hand off the stove.

00:38:40.000 It's how Olympic archers shoot with a clicker, right?

00:38:43.000 So they draw their arrow back and they've got it underneath the clicker, and then as they pull the tip of the arrow out from underneath the clicker, it clicks against the side of their bow.

00:38:52.000 That sound wave is picked up by the hair cell, the mechanoreceptors and the hair cells of the ear.

00:38:56.000 It sends it to the brain.

00:38:57.000 The brain sends the release motor program.

00:39:00.000 So, you know, you'll watch them.

00:39:01.000 They're expanding through it.

00:39:02.000 Click, boom. 0.99

00:39:03.000 They'll shoot the shot.

00:39:04.000 Same in Kudo archery. 0.77

00:39:05.000 Same in Bhutan, right?

00:39:07.000 In Bhutan, they tie a wire underneath their arrow.

00:39:10.000 They'll wrap a little piece of wire or a piece of wood on there like a toothpick that will touch their knuckle.

00:39:16.000 Right?

00:39:17.000 So there's been these ways of doing things for millennium, right?

00:39:23.000 But we all want to be more pure, right?

00:39:26.000 We all want to, oh, traditional archery is just, you know, drawing back your longbow and letting it fire.

00:39:31.000 Well, that's, I mean, you go to any traditional archery event and you see most people don't even get to full draw before they let it go.

00:39:39.000 It's sad.

00:39:40.000 It's sad to watch.

00:39:41.000 I had a moment in South Texas recently where I was hunting neil guy. 1.00

00:39:48.000 And neil guy are a particularly fascinating animal because they evolved around tigers. 0.91

00:39:54.000 Right.

00:39:54.000 They're jumpy as hell.

00:39:56.000 I've never seen an animal move that fast.

00:39:58.000 I've never seen an animal so jumpy, other than axis deer, which also evolved around tigers.

00:40:03.000 Yes.

00:40:04.000 So I have this bow that has set up a Garmin sight, which I love.

00:40:11.000 And what a Garmin sight is, it's a range-finding bow sight that uses a dot.

00:40:17.000 So instead of having a pin, so just explain it to people at home.

00:40:21.000 The way you sight an archery bow, a bow for bow hunting or bow for archery, is there's a program that you run the arrow weight through, the speed of the arrow, you shoot your arrow through a chronograph, the weight of the arrow,

00:40:38.000 the draw length, and all these different components go into a program called Archery Advantage.

00:40:44.000 And that program will give you a sight tape.

00:40:47.000 You put that sight tape on your bow, and it's calculated to the weight of the arrow, the speed of the arrow, and it shows how much drop the arrow's going to have over 20 yards, 40 yards, 50 yards.

00:41:00.000 And it'll show you exactly where that pin has to be.

00:41:03.000 So you would have to range with a laser range finder.

00:41:06.000 You get your number.

00:41:07.000 Oh, it's 56 yards away.

00:41:09.000 And then you dial it perfectly to 56 yards, and that will calculate exactly where that arrow is going to be when it gets to 56 yards.

00:41:17.000 What I love about this Garmin sight is, at full draw, you just press a button, and it ranges, and then it gives you a pin.

00:41:26.000 Well, I'm at full draw on this Neil guy, and I've had a couple of problems with this Bow sight where it didn't range.

00:41:35.000 So I'm at full draw, and I have a 90-pound bow, so it's a lot of weight.

00:41:40.000 It's very heavy, and I'm pulling it.

00:41:42.000 It's not a heavy bow like physically, but it's heavy to pull back, and I'm holding it back, and I press it.

00:41:47.000 Nothing.

00:41:48.000 And I press it again, nothing. 1.00

00:41:49.000 So then there's all this shit in your head. 1.00

00:41:52.000 It's like, oh Jesus, he's gonna get away. 1.00

00:41:54.000 Oh no, you're gonna make a bad shot.

00:41:56.000 And I'm like, no, [...

00:41:59.000 Good.

00:41:59.000 And then the third time I press it, finally I get a pin.

00:42:02.000 And I'm like, pull, pull, pull, flop.

00:42:06.000 And this arrow flies perfect.

00:42:09.000 It hits this animal quartering away, broadside, punches straight through the animal, and the arrow goes 30 yards away.

00:42:16.000 But the Neil guy runs like nothing's wrong with it.

00:42:20.000 In a full sprint, when the arrow hits it, I'm like, oh no.

00:42:24.000 I'm like, how am I even going to find this thing?

00:42:26.000 130 yards it went until it died, but we didn't know where it went.

00:42:30.000 You know, it's heavy brush in South Texas.

00:42:32.000 And I'm talking to the guide and he's like, when we shoot them with rifles, we have the client who has a round in his rifle and then the guide also has a round.

00:42:44.000 So the client shoots the Neil guy and then the guide will do a follow-up shot because that's how tough they are. 0.98

00:42:51.000 I'm like, maybe you should have fucking told me that before. 0.97

00:42:54.000 Because I was not even with him. 0.98

00:42:56.000 I had snuck away.

00:42:57.000 I'm like, just stay back because I'm going to try to move around these bushes and get within boat range.

00:43:02.000 And so I'm thinking, boy, I'm pretty sure I made a great shot.

00:43:07.000 Like, I have to...

00:43:08.000 I don't know.

00:43:09.000 So luckily...

00:43:12.000 We map the area, we do a grid, and we find the animal.

00:43:16.000 He's only 130 yards away.

00:43:17.000 It's a perfect shot.

00:43:18.000 Went straight through.

00:43:19.000 These animals don't bleed. 0.98

00:43:22.000 They're the weirdest animal.

00:43:23.000 They're amazing.

00:43:24.000 When you shoot an elk at 30...

00:43:26.000 I think this was a 52-yard shot.

00:43:28.000 If you shoot an elk at 52 yards, when you go to the spot where it hit, you're going to find drops of blood, and you're going to be able to do a blood trail, and you'll be able to find your animal.

00:43:36.000 And they don't run like Neil Guy run.

00:43:38.000 This thing runs at a cheetah clip. 1.00

00:43:41.000 I mean, full blast, full sprint, and just till it died.

00:43:45.000 But it was a perfect shot.

00:43:47.000 And it would not have been...

00:43:48.000 I mean, the anxiety of the sight not working, me pressing the button, nothing.

00:43:52.000 Me pressing the button, nothing. 1.00

00:43:54.000 Oh, fuck. 0.99

00:43:55.000 And I'm at full draw here, and I'm trying to stay calm and stable, and then finally press the button and get the thing. 1.00

00:44:02.000 But if it wasn't for being conscious in the shot, pull, pull, pull, swoom!

00:44:08.000 And I hear that whap!

00:44:10.000 You know, that sound that you hear when it hits the vitals, when it goes through the ribs, through the body, and it went out the front shoulder.

00:44:18.000 I mean, it was a perfect shot.

00:44:20.000 But it was because of your program.

00:44:23.000 It was because of your teaching.

00:44:25.000 And this was after I'd already worked with you and Peter Atiyah at his house, and we were messing around.

00:44:31.000 I had it very keenly in my head what needed to be done.

00:44:35.000 But you practice it, right?

00:44:36.000 So the difference is that you're a very determined person, and that's the missing ingredient in most people, is they're not determined enough to actually make the decision.

00:44:46.000 And so they go shoot their bow.

00:44:48.000 And they shoot their bow and they're punching the trigger, maybe just a little bit, right, in practice.

00:44:53.000 So they're literally practicing their own failure in a high-stress event, right?

00:44:58.000 So they're punching it a little bit, a little bit, and their mind's just making them a little bit more efficient, more efficient, and they're practicing this efficiency.

00:45:05.000 They're practicing their open-loop trigger work.

00:45:08.000 And then it comes to a high-stress event, and then they go ultra-efficient, and none of that stuff that you're talking about is in their head. 0.99

00:45:16.000 They're only thinking, holy shit, I don't have a pin. 0.92

00:45:20.000 We'll just make things happen, and your autopilot will take it away from you like that. 0.98

00:45:25.000 But you, because you practice making decisions, you practice finding determination.

00:45:32.000 These are strange things to practice, but we're just using archery.

00:45:37.000 We're shooting firearms or whatever it is.

00:45:39.000 We're using those as the medium for practice of these very mental things.

00:45:43.000 You use your bow to practice your concentration, right?

00:45:47.000 You saying pull, pull, pull doesn't just happen.

00:45:51.000 It has to be decided upon.

00:45:54.000 And that's what long ago, that guy at the academy could not figure that out.

00:45:58.000 And his ego was too high to actually go, oh, maybe what you're saying actually has some merit.

00:46:03.000 Because what am I? I'm just a dumb cop, right? 0.98

00:46:06.000 So it's very interesting. 0.98

00:46:08.000 But I see people all the time go to the range.

00:46:11.000 And they practice their own failure.

00:46:13.000 Even professional archers do the same thing.

00:46:15.000 And then they meet Bodie.

00:46:18.000 And the shoot-off, and Bodhi's going to shoot his process no matter what, right?

00:46:23.000 So it's really cool to see that and to know, like, you put Bodhi on a critter, it is done for.

00:46:30.000 Because Bodhi is a—he's stone cold, man.

00:46:33.000 Well, the fact that you've trained him since he was a young boy at this, and this has been the way he's learned archery— Like, with his age, at your understanding of it, it all came about really at the perfect time.

00:46:45.000 It was the perfect storm.

00:46:46.000 And, you know, Bodhi started shooting a bow at ten and a half months old.

00:46:50.000 I mean, I had, at two weeks old, I had him in a front pack and, you know, shooting.

00:46:55.000 He's seen thousands of arrows go downrange.

00:46:57.000 I had a bow in his crib, and at ten and a half months, he finally picks that thing up upside down, right?

00:47:03.000 He would prop himself up against the couch, draw back, fall over, and then, you know...

00:47:09.000 Shoot his little string off. 0.99

00:47:10.000 But then at two and a half, he's shooting balloons, flying balloons with his bow in the kitchen, suction cup arrows.

00:47:16.000 At three years old, I buy him his first compound.

00:47:19.000 And index finger trigger at three years old, and he's punching the crap out of that thing.

00:47:25.000 Of course. 0.76

00:47:25.000 At three years old. 0.76

00:47:26.000 That's all his mind knows is to brace for impact, right?

00:47:29.000 So at three, I bought him attention-activated release.

00:47:34.000 And what that did, just like me in the academy, I fixed a mental problem with mechanical means.

00:47:39.000 So at that age, you know, what does a three-year-old have for determination and decision-making skills?

00:47:44.000 Nothing, right?

00:47:45.000 So even up into early teens, these kids today don't have enough determination to override their own central nervous system, right?

00:47:53.000 So you put them in a tension-activated release that makes decisions for them.

00:47:57.000 Push the safety in.

00:47:58.000 Draw the bow back and aim it.

00:48:00.000 Safety's still on.

00:48:01.000 That's the calming effect.

00:48:02.000 Safety's still on.

00:48:03.000 Weapon's not even hot yet.

00:48:04.000 They get their aim done, and then they separate from that by letting go of the safety.

00:48:11.000 And then if they don't pull, their bow's not going off.

00:48:14.000 So it makes the decision for them.

00:48:16.000 So from about three years old to about nine years old, that's what Bodie shot was attention-activated release.

00:48:21.000 Until I saw it in him that that's all he knew and that he could run anything, right?

00:48:26.000 And he's heard me do the speech and so many times that I didn't sit Bodie down and go, okay, boy, this is how we're doing it.

00:48:33.000 He just heard it so many times and me teaching other people and me, you know, showing him like, we don't do that.

00:48:39.000 To the point where he would go to the range, little tiny kid, right?

00:48:43.000 And he'd look up at somebody.

00:48:44.000 Oh, you punched that one. 0.97

00:48:46.000 Like, boy, that guy's way bigger than your old man, so let's just, on that, right?

00:48:52.000 But it was so funny.

00:48:54.000 But now it's just, you know what's happening in Bodhi's mind, and you can see it in his eyes, and you see that squint, you know the concentration is there.

00:49:01.000 And the only advice that I ever give him is keep it moving.

00:49:04.000 Because I know that if he keeps his release moving, I know that his conscious mind is in his release, and it's not in the aim.

00:49:11.000 People, they are so infatuated with the aim.

00:49:15.000 It's just, it's crazy.

00:49:16.000 They all try to control something that they have no control over.

00:49:19.000 Once you put the pin on there, it's done.

00:49:23.000 Just watch it to keep it, right?

00:49:26.000 Watch the picture.

00:49:27.000 And people are like, do I concentrate on the pin or do I concentrate on the target?

00:49:32.000 I'm like, you don't concentrate on either one of those.

00:49:34.000 You just watch the picture.

00:49:37.000 Make it so they're both fairly in focus.

00:49:39.000 They're on different focal planes, so they're not both going to be in focus, but they are so infatuated with it.

00:49:45.000 That's why they weight their bow up so much.

00:49:47.000 They can't step away from it, and certain personalities have a difficult time stepping away from the aim.

00:49:52.000 They want to control that.

00:49:53.000 You can't control it.

00:49:54.000 No matter which way it moves, its next movement's always back to the middle.

00:49:57.000 So let it do its thing, and don't slow it down too much.

00:50:00.000 So you know where you want to hit.

00:50:02.000 Yeah.

00:50:03.000 And just concentrate on that spot.

00:50:05.000 Just watch it.

00:50:06.000 Don't concentrate on it.

00:50:07.000 If you put mental concentration into it, like if you're thinking about like, oh, I gotta get it right now.

00:50:14.000 It's never going to happen because you're going to go open loop on the trigger.

00:50:17.000 If your thought process is in your aim, you will go open loop on the trigger.

00:50:22.000 You will punch the trigger every single time.

00:50:25.000 The weird thing about it is it's so counterintuitive to not worry about your pin moving around.

00:50:31.000 Right.

00:50:31.000 Because your pin is going to move.

00:50:33.000 It's impossible to be perfectly still.

00:50:37.000 Exactly.

00:50:37.000 When you're holding a bow and you're drawing back, it's like there's going to be a minimal amount of movement, no matter what.

00:50:45.000 But your subconscious mind will always bring that pin back to where you want it to go.

00:50:51.000 And you just have to trust in that process. 0.98

00:50:52.000 And that is a mindfuck for people. 0.92

00:50:55.000 Because you're like, no, no, no. 0.92

00:50:57.000 When a pin gets there, that's when I'm going to release it.

00:50:59.000 But you can't do that.

00:51:01.000 It's not actually there anymore, though.

00:51:03.000 By the time you process that, and that's why people super weight their bows.

00:51:07.000 Like you'll see a lot of pros have like 50 ounces of weight on their bow.

00:51:12.000 Because, and that's strictly for their human psyche, that is to calm themselves down because they see that slow pin movement.

00:51:18.000 But what we're trying to get is a surprise break, right?

00:51:21.000 You're trying to get it, concentrate on this movement so you don't know when your bow is going off, so you can't, your mind can't put the pre-ignition movements in there.

00:51:28.000 But then you couple that with a super slow pin movement.

00:51:31.000 Well, now it's in the 9 ring, and if you keep going, you have the surprise break.

00:51:35.000 If it breaks in the 9, and it is a 9, like on a Vegas face target, if it breaks in the 9 and it is a 9, it lands in the 9, then your bow is obviously too heavy.

00:51:45.000 You've slowed the rate of return down too much.

00:51:48.000 It's just like, you know, you have to be able to break a shot in the 9, and it still hits a 10, if not an X. And that's how we tune Bodie's bows Everybody's like, oh, Bode's so steady.

00:51:59.000 He's not that steady, right?

00:52:01.000 People think that because they don't see his stabilizers moving very much, but he keeps them light so that his pin can break anywhere in the gold and it'll hit an X. That's how we do that, right?

00:52:13.000 We're not trying to catch it because that's open loop trigger work.

00:52:16.000 But some guys do catch it.

00:52:18.000 They do.

00:52:18.000 This is what's weird, right?

00:52:20.000 There's some guys like Tim Gillingham and Kyle Douglas who are like elite, world-class archers who hold their bow steady, they put the pin right there, and then they pop, they hit it.

00:52:31.000 Very contentious issue.

00:52:33.000 Yeah, so they...

00:52:35.000 When you talk to those people, they're of a very specific personality.

00:52:39.000 They're calm dudes, right?

00:52:40.000 I talk to them all the time.

00:52:41.000 They're calm dudes.

00:52:42.000 They're good dudes.

00:52:43.000 They're just calm.

00:52:44.000 They have a specific personality.

00:52:46.000 So they superweight their bow and they're able to process that and they get it there. 0.99

00:52:51.000 But it bites them in the butt every now and again, right? 0.95

00:52:55.000 So, and you can't stop that because you don't know what pre-ignition movement's coming. 0.97

00:52:59.000 And you see that in the shoot-offs where, you know, they shoot amazing to get to the shoot-off, but then there's one in there that they didn't catch, right, that they went open loop on.

00:53:09.000 Well, they go open loop on all of them, but there's one that they got a little too efficient with it, right?

00:53:14.000 And this is nothing against those guys.

00:53:16.000 They're amazing shooters.

00:53:18.000 That is the other way of archery, right?

00:53:20.000 Super weight your bow and catch it when it's in the middle.

00:53:23.000 But you have to have a super light trigger to do that so that your pre-ignition movement is minimal, right?

00:53:29.000 So you don't have to have much of a movement.

00:53:31.000 I mean, it's so light when you actually work on their triggers.

00:53:34.000 That's the other way of doing it.

00:53:36.000 That's not what we do, right?

00:53:38.000 I want fast pin movement, and I want closed loop movement on the release.

00:53:44.000 And that seems to be a higher level.

00:53:47.000 Like, when you go to Vegas now, there's a whole other level, right?

00:53:50.000 You have to be on your game.

00:53:52.000 It is very high level now.

00:53:55.000 So what they're doing is almost like, obviously, they're amazing archers.

00:54:00.000 They're so good at what they do.

00:54:03.000 And they have sort of decided to eliminate some of that anxiety by having a very hot trigger.

00:54:10.000 And a very heavy bow.

00:54:12.000 And just getting it so they know they can get that pin right there and just touching it when it's there.

00:54:17.000 Which works a lot.

00:54:19.000 Mm-hmm.

00:54:19.000 But not always.

00:54:22.000 Not always.

00:54:23.000 Which is a mindfuck. 0.94

00:54:25.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:54:25.000 Like, how can you be one of the best in the world and be doing something wrong? 0.98

00:54:28.000 Well, it's not wrong.

00:54:29.000 It's not wrong. 0.84

00:54:30.000 It's just a different way of doing it, right?

00:54:32.000 It's not wrong by any stretch of the imagination.

00:54:35.000 I don't know that it has the potential of closed-loop release movement.

00:54:41.000 It's close.

00:54:42.000 So they could do everything they're doing but incorporate closed loop movements and it would be even better.

00:54:50.000 Well, potentially.

00:54:52.000 They would have to probably lighten their bows up and become friends with the movement because if you have that super – like their pin moves really slow.

00:55:00.000 So if they have it moving slow and they continue with that movement, if it breaks in the 9, it's going to be a 9 because it can't get back to the middle fast enough with how they have it weighted.

00:55:09.000 They have to have the pin movement so slow that it comes into the middle and there's enough time for them to recognize, okay, it's in the middle, send the signal to the release, right?

00:55:20.000 And this is all happening in thousands of a second, but it's only there for a microsecond.

00:55:26.000 Right?

00:55:27.000 Until it floats out.

00:55:28.000 And the problem with that system is if you go open loop on the trigger, you don't know what pre-ignition movement's coming.

00:55:35.000 Is it a micro-collapse?

00:55:36.000 Do you grab your bow slightly?

00:55:38.000 Do you winch your face?

00:55:40.000 All those are going to deviate your point of impact.

00:55:42.000 And you're trying to hit a penny every time.

00:55:45.000 You know, that's just an indoor archery. 0.69

00:55:46.000 If you're shooting like safari, you're shooting 101 yards.

00:55:49.000 If you go open loop on the trigger with that...

00:55:52.000 Who knows?

00:55:53.000 Your miss could be bigger.

00:55:56.000 Archery is such a proving ground for mental control, and it's one of the things that I love about it. 0.98

00:56:02.000 One of the things that I love about it is archery doesn't give a fuck how many people like you, whether your friends text you back, whether your wife is upset with you. 0.99

00:56:14.000 Archery doesn't give a fuck. 1.00

00:56:15.000 If you don't do it right, it doesn't land where you want it to go. 0.99

00:56:20.000 And I know that sometimes I can do it right. 0.82

00:56:23.000 And so there's this mindfuck where I'll just be... 0.54

00:56:26.000 I have to stop practicing sometimes because my shoulders are sore. 0.98

00:56:30.000 I've shot hundreds of...

00:56:31.000 I've been out there for hours.

00:56:32.000 I'm like, okay, now your body is not recovered enough to do this.

00:56:37.000 You've got to stop.

00:56:38.000 I get obsessed with it.

00:56:40.000 And what I'm obsessed with is this ability to recreate the movements and the mindset that you need in order to do it efficiently and accurately and then do it again and again and again.

00:56:56.000 And then...

00:56:57.000 You also have to avoid this thing where I like to sometimes, I'll make a shot, it's a perfect shot, and I'm like, good, I'm dialed in, and then I don't do all those things when I'm drawing back.

00:57:08.000 I just draw back, I center my peep, and I just fire another arrow.

00:57:12.000 And it doesn't matter if it went in there.

00:57:14.000 I'm like, don't do it that way because you're not doing it the way you're going to have to do it if you're on a big bull in the woods.

00:57:22.000 If you see a big bull in the woods and it's, you know, the 16 yard gap in between two trees and that's where his vitals are.

00:57:29.000 You gotta have all your I's dotted and your T's crossed.

00:57:33.000 You can't just rely on the fact that you've already shot 50 arrows in a row, because you haven't.

00:57:38.000 You've hiked up this mountain.

00:57:40.000 You're exhausted. 1.00

00:57:40.000 There's all this shit going on. 1.00

00:57:43.000 It's such a mindfuck, like almost nothing else I've ever done. 1.00

00:57:48.000 Besides pool, which is also a mindfuck, but in pool you get to shoot a bunch of other shots. 0.98

00:57:54.000 You get to shoot the one ball to the two ball. 0.76

00:57:57.000 You're warmed up to the three.

00:57:59.000 You get good position on the four.

00:58:00.000 You're rolling.

00:58:02.000 With archery, every shot is the nine ball.

00:58:05.000 Every shot is the money ball.

00:58:07.000 And you only get one shot.

00:58:09.000 And you might go five, six, seven days without shooting any shots.

00:58:14.000 Yeah.

00:58:14.000 Because you're out there hiking and carrying your bow and trying to sneak up and get downwind.

00:58:19.000 There's so much going on that that moment is so hypercharged.

00:58:23.000 It's like no other thing that I've ever done.

00:58:26.000 Yeah.

00:58:27.000 It's using the shot though.

00:58:29.000 Like that shot where you had that shot was perfect.

00:58:32.000 Like, okay, I'm good.

00:58:33.000 And then you shoot again.

00:58:34.000 The difference was you didn't decide on that next shot.

00:58:38.000 Yes.

00:58:38.000 Right?

00:58:39.000 You didn't make the decision that made your presence increase.

00:58:42.000 So that you could remember to do all those steps.

00:58:44.000 And it's using the shot and using the stress.

00:58:48.000 You know, like when I go elk hunting, it's just I'm using that elk for a stress test, right?

00:58:54.000 And it's so powerful to be able to control your mind in such a situation.

00:59:00.000 It is amazingly powerful.

00:59:03.000 It makes other decisions in life so much easier.

00:59:07.000 If you're getting ready for a presentation, if you're doing surgery, whatever it may be, you can get your mind where it needs to be.

00:59:15.000 It's so funny because I have some surgeons come to me for shooting practice and we do the signature test.

00:59:22.000 I'm like...

00:59:23.000 We're good to go.

00:59:39.000 In a high-stress event, how do you get yourself to concentrate?

00:59:43.000 And it's even more important when you're on the instructor end of things.

00:59:46.000 How do you get this other person to do it?

00:59:49.000 Right?

00:59:50.000 Getting them to talk themselves through it.

00:59:52.000 Getting them to make the decisions.

00:59:53.000 And that's what we've done.

00:59:55.000 We've mapped all this stuff out so you can get other people to do it for themselves.

01:00:00.000 We just use archery, because like you said, there's nothing like it.

01:00:04.000 Nothing.

01:00:04.000 It is such a crazy thing to be able to control a movement that causes an explosion.

01:00:10.000 What's fascinating to me is it's made my rifle shooting so much better.

01:00:15.000 I'm so confident with a rifle.

01:00:17.000 When I zoom in on something with a rifle, when I'm looking down that scope and I've got that crosshairs on it, I know all I have to do is just pull, pull, pull, pull, pull.

01:00:26.000 And especially if I have a rest.

01:00:28.000 Oh, sure.

01:00:29.000 Like if I'm prone and I'm laying the rifle over my backpack and you have all these points of contact.

01:00:37.000 It's so much easier.

01:00:38.000 It's so different.

01:00:39.000 And that the difficulty of archery, it enhances and educates all these different aspects of your life when it comes to dealing with stressful, high pressure situations.

01:00:55.000 It makes you stay in the moment.

01:00:56.000 Because you have to stay in the moment in stand-up comedy, too.

01:00:59.000 When you're doing stand-up comedy, you can't think like, oh, I hope they laugh at this next one.

01:01:03.000 Oh, I hope I don't fuck this joke up.

01:01:05.000 Oh, I might be losing the crowd.

01:01:07.000 You can't think any of that.

01:01:08.000 You have to be...

01:01:09.000 If I'm talking about coffee or something like that, whatever I'm talking about on stage, I have to be thinking about that coffee.

01:01:16.000 If I'm not, that audience knows it.

01:01:18.000 They smell it. 0.96

01:01:19.000 They're animals.

01:01:20.000 They're like... 1.00

01:01:20.000 This motherfucker's not even thinking about what he's talking about. 1.00

01:01:23.000 They know. 1.00

01:01:23.000 It's a weird thing. 1.00

01:01:25.000 And it's the same kind of thing.

01:01:27.000 Like, you have to be in that mindset.

01:01:30.000 And I've had shows before where maybe I was too relaxed or too confident or too whatever.

01:01:38.000 And then you'll stumble a little bit.

01:01:40.000 And then you've got to re-establish where you're at.

01:01:43.000 And you've got to stay.

01:01:44.000 And you're like, uh-oh, uh-oh, we're losing control here. 0.87

01:01:48.000 You might have fucked that joke up. 0.68

01:01:49.000 Get back in the mindset.

01:01:51.000 Think about what you're talking about.

01:01:53.000 Bring these people back to you.

01:01:55.000 Get in there.

01:01:57.000 It applies to so many high-pressure situations, is that the mind gets away from you. 0.81

01:02:04.000 You see it in traffic accidents where people panic and they hit the gas instead of the brakes, or they just fucking don't know what to do.

01:02:11.000 They freak out because they can't stay calm in the movement, in the moment, and just concentrate on what they're supposed to be doing rather than the desired result they want to achieve.

01:02:23.000 And that's why I think archery is one of the ultimate proving grounds for mental control.

01:02:28.000 Like I said, they may have done it before.

01:02:31.000 Yeah.

01:02:32.000 They may have done it before, but they never blueprinted how they did it.

01:02:35.000 Right.

01:02:36.000 And that is so huge.

01:02:38.000 How do you get yourself in that zone before your deal on stage or whatever?

01:02:42.000 You know how you do it now because you've done it hundreds if not thousands of times.

01:02:47.000 Yeah.

01:02:48.000 When it comes down to like life or death stuff, that's where, you know, you're a very determined person, just in the way you live your life.

01:02:56.000 It's Cam, very determined person, right?

01:02:59.000 So that's how you get to where you get to.

01:03:02.000 It's the first ingredient in this whole control factor is having enough determination to do that.

01:03:08.000 And, like, you have a why.

01:03:10.000 You have a why as to why you're doing this.

01:03:13.000 My why was I was scared to death, man, in the sniper world.

01:03:17.000 I was like, man, I hope it doesn't go bad.

01:03:20.000 And I'm like, that can't be the mindset.

01:03:22.000 Holy mackerel.

01:03:23.000 But it is the mindset of most cops because they don't have a why.

01:03:27.000 You know, if a cop's never been in a gunfight or a shooting, their why is artificial, right?

01:03:34.000 And it's scary the first time that you do that.

01:03:38.000 You know, having that why and seeing, like, I was in an HR where I, you know, had to use lethal force on a person that was, I had to put a round this far from another human being's face, right?

01:03:50.000 And it was, that's my why.

01:03:52.000 So when I do training on the team, it's like, you guys don't understand when you're, when you see, when you're looking through your optic.

01:04:00.000 At a reticle and there's somebody's face on the edge of the...

01:04:05.000 I mean, their face is fully in your scope and the reticle is right on the edge, right?

01:04:11.000 And you have to put the round past their head.

01:04:13.000 That's your why, right?

01:04:15.000 So that's your why for all this tactical training that you do.

01:04:18.000 But if you've never been there and done that, you have to learn how to manufacture determination, right?

01:04:24.000 Can you imagine what failure would be in that situation?

01:04:27.000 Well, tell the story, if you don't mind, the story you told me about the guy who was methed out.

01:04:33.000 Yeah.

01:04:33.000 So, got a SWAT call-out of a hostage rescue.

01:04:37.000 There was an unarmed, barricaded subject with a hostage.

01:04:40.000 And you never know.

01:04:41.000 That's all the information you get on the call-out, right?

01:04:43.000 So, we go there.

01:04:46.000 I get there, and it was weird because on the brief, I walked up to the house, and the SWAT commander briefed me at the At the head of the garage there, and it was light-colored concrete.

01:04:58.000 It's dark.

01:04:59.000 You know, we didn't have a bunch of lights on because the operation is active in that house right there, but the room was in kind of the back of the house.

01:05:05.000 And I remember he's talking to me, telling me the situation, and I'm looking on the ground and I'm like, what is all that stuff on the ground, right?

01:05:15.000 And I'm looking at these dark patches on the ground.

01:05:17.000 So I turn my flashlight on and it's blood.

01:05:20.000 There's blood all over the place on the walkway down from the garage.

01:05:25.000 I'm like, what is up with that?

01:05:27.000 And he's like, well, this guy stabbed his cousin and then took his own daughter hostage.

01:05:33.000 Used her as a human shield with a knife to her.

01:05:36.000 So that's how SWAT got called and all this stuff.

01:05:39.000 So I get there.

01:05:41.000 And I got to be, I'm up on a ladder over a wood fence, and we're about, I'm only like 15 yards from the window, but we can't see anything in the window.

01:05:50.000 And the negotiator's on the phone with this guy, and he's not really making a lot of sense.

01:05:56.000 He wants to talk to his girlfriend, blah, blah, blah.

01:05:58.000 He's got his daughter in there with him, and we can hear her through the wall, right?

01:06:03.000 We can hear her.

01:06:03.000 Sometimes she's screaming.

01:06:05.000 Sometimes she's crying.

01:06:07.000 Sometimes she's laughing.

01:06:08.000 So we don't know what is going on in there, right?

01:06:10.000 And this goes on for the negotiators are on the phone with them for a while.

01:06:14.000 And then finally, the decision's made.

01:06:16.000 Like, we have to get in there because it's starting to go south in negotiations.

01:06:21.000 And we lost comms with the guy.

01:06:23.000 So you're worried he's going to stab his daughter.

01:06:24.000 Yeah.

01:06:25.000 I mean, he's already done that to his cousin, right? 0.90

01:06:28.000 I mean, stabbed him in the face and legs and arms, big K-bar knife. 0.60

01:06:32.000 It was not a good situation.

01:06:34.000 So, yeah, and he's already used her as a human shield, right?

01:06:37.000 When the cops, what happened is there was a big fight went on.

01:06:41.000 The cops got in, got everybody out.

01:06:44.000 Then they realized the daughter was hiding behind a couch.

01:06:49.000 So they go back in.

01:06:50.000 They restack up.

01:06:51.000 They go back in.

01:06:51.000 Now he's got the daughter around the waist, using her as a human shield, knife to her, and he kicks the door shut on a bedroom.

01:06:58.000 That's what starts the SWAT call out.

01:07:01.000 So I'm looking in this window.

01:07:04.000 It's got blinds on it.

01:07:06.000 Negotiations are going south.

01:07:06.000 We lose comms with the guy.

01:07:08.000 So finally, we're like, we got to get comms with this dude, so we're going to put a throw phone in.

01:07:12.000 So we put a throw phone.

01:07:14.000 A throw phone is like a box.

01:07:16.000 It's got a phone in it so the negotiators can talk to the dude.

01:07:20.000 And so we put that in there.

01:07:23.000 My buddy rips the blinds out.

01:07:25.000 When we rip the blinds out, there's the dude again.

01:07:27.000 I can't see him because I can only see like half the room.

01:07:32.000 And he's in the right corner of the room, and I'm over this fence.

01:07:38.000 And The window guys are yelling at him to drop the girl, drop the knife, you know, to get him all the commands, and he's kind of working his way along the wall.

01:07:47.000 He's got her around the waist, so he would hold her up above, you know, so they can't get a shot. 0.77

01:07:53.000 And so he's moving his way across the wall, and then he moves his way across this wall and ends up in this corner.

01:08:00.000 Sits down and pulls her up over the top of him.

01:08:04.000 And so the window's on the same wall as this corner, and I can't see any of this stuff.

01:08:09.000 I'm the sniper team leader, so I work my way around, and I get to this gate.

01:08:15.000 I'm like, they called fire priority to the window team.

01:08:18.000 I'm like, I'm on the wrong team.

01:08:20.000 Right?

01:08:20.000 So, because there's like six dudes at the window, and nobody's shooting.

01:08:25.000 I'm like, why in the F are these guys not shooting?

01:08:28.000 Because I couldn't see what they saw, but that's what's going through my head.

01:08:31.000 So I... I get off the ladder.

01:08:34.000 I run to this gate.

01:08:36.000 It's weird, the stuff you remember.

01:08:37.000 They had this...

01:08:38.000 It was like one of those latch type of locks.

01:08:41.000 And it had a bolt through it with the nut all the way buried.

01:08:44.000 And this bolt was like...

01:08:45.000 It felt like it was this long, right? 0.55

01:08:47.000 So I'm having to unscrew this freaking bolt, right? 0.89

01:08:50.000 I'm screwing. 0.88

01:08:50.000 It's the finest threads I've ever felt, right? 0.88

01:08:52.000 So I'm unscrewing this bolt.

01:08:54.000 Finally, bing!

01:08:55.000 I get that.

01:08:55.000 I go through the gate.

01:08:56.000 I come around.

01:08:57.000 I come up to the window.

01:09:00.000 And...

01:09:01.000 There was another officer that had basically his face planted against the window so that he could just barely see through the sliver because it was on the same wall.

01:09:11.000 And he wasn't shooting, and I'm like, why are you not shooting?

01:09:17.000 And so we actually ended up having to remove him off the ladder because I don't know what he was thinking.

01:09:21.000 He wasn't hearing us.

01:09:22.000 We were giving him commands to get off the ladder so I could get up there and evaluate the situation.

01:09:27.000 And I'm shooting my sniper rifles.

01:09:29.000 It was a gas-operated.308, and lowest power on the scope was 4.5.

01:09:35.000 And I told the admin years ago, I'm like, I need lower power because it's going to be close probably when it does happen, and sure enough, it was.

01:09:43.000 So I get up on this ladder, and I put my face against the wall, and I can just see through the sliver.

01:09:48.000 I can see him sitting, and I can see her sitting in his lap, basically, and he's got his arm around her. 0.93

01:09:57.000 And the team keeps giving them commands, and I'm looking at this shot, and I'm evaluating what's going on, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm going to have to shoot him left-handed.

01:10:07.000 And I'm thinking, lowest power is four and a half.

01:10:10.000 So I do an optic check on the wall, and I'm like, that ain't going to work. 0.99

01:10:13.000 So I'm thinking to myself, I'm going to have to shoot him with my pistol.

01:10:16.000 When you say optic check, it's because it's moving too much? 0.97

01:10:19.000 No, because it's too much magnification?

01:10:20.000 Yeah, too much magnification.

01:10:21.000 So there was a picture of something on the wall.

01:10:23.000 So I brought my rifle up and looked at it.

01:10:25.000 I'm like, that ain't going to work.

01:10:26.000 It was just blurry.

01:10:27.000 It's four and a half power.

01:10:28.000 The shot's only 11 feet, like 12 feet, 11 feet.

01:10:31.000 Oh, my God.

01:10:31.000 So I'm like, I don't have the right tool.

01:10:36.000 So I'm thinking, I'm going to have to shoot my handgun. 0.99

01:10:39.000 And then I'm thinking, I always preach, handguns suck for killing stuff, right? 0.99

01:10:44.000 So that's why I always tell my guys, handguns suck for killing stuff. 0.98

01:10:47.000 We don't use handguns if we don't have to. 0.86

01:10:48.000 But I'm thinking, I got the wrong tool.

01:10:50.000 What am I going to do? 1.00

01:10:52.000 So I'm thinking, wait a minute, stupid. 1.00

01:10:54.000 There's six guys standing at the window that have the right tool, right? 1.00

01:10:58.000 Because they all have their assault rifles.

01:11:01.000 And...

01:11:04.000 So the first guy, and it just happened to be the guy that we pulled off the ladder, I'm like, give me your rifle.

01:11:08.000 He's like, what?

01:11:09.000 Go give me your rifle.

01:11:10.000 So we swap rifles, and he says HK416. And the reason he said that was because on an HK416, if you flip to safety twice, you go to full auto, right?

01:11:21.000 So don't want to do that in a precision environment, right?

01:11:24.000 So I'm like, roger that.

01:11:26.000 And so I got up, and the window's broken at this point.

01:11:31.000 So when you step up to the window, you're literally walking on broken glass, okay?

01:11:36.000 So I step up, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

01:11:38.000 The glass all pops underneath my feet.

01:11:42.000 And I push the rifle. 0.92

01:11:43.000 I've got to shoot left-handed, right?

01:11:45.000 So I push the rifle in and I come around the corner.

01:11:47.000 Now the rifle butt is in my bicep with somebody else's rifle, right?

01:11:51.000 But I know this rifle is zeroed because it has to be zeroed.

01:11:55.000 Because to get through my qualification a month earlier, it had to be zeroed, right?

01:11:59.000 So I knew that things were good.

01:12:01.000 But I also knew that you've got to aim two and a half inches higher than where you want to hit because that's a mechanical offset, right?

01:12:06.000 Difference between bore height and sight height, two and a half inches.

01:12:09.000 So I push the rifle in the window and I come around the corner and I look and the little girl's looking right at me, right?

01:12:15.000 Because all the broken glass.

01:12:17.000 So she's looking right at me and I bring the reticle up and it's full pop brightness.

01:12:24.000 Right?

01:12:24.000 I can't see anything.

01:12:26.000 Because he had it set for a white light shot.

01:12:29.000 So when you turn your super bright flashlight on, on your rifle, it will blare out your reticle.

01:12:37.000 So you've got to have your reticle turned way up.

01:12:39.000 Well, he had it set for a white light shot.

01:12:41.000 But I wasn't going to do a white light shot.

01:12:42.000 So I looked and I'm like, oh no!

01:12:45.000 So just like you're thinking your thing didn't turn on when you're looking at this Neil guy, I'm looking at this red sun in a dimly lit room and I'm like, this ain't gonna work.

01:12:55.000 So I pulled the rifle back out of the window.

01:12:58.000 And now I've got to work on the buttons on this site.

01:13:00.000 Well, this isn't my rifle, right?

01:13:02.000 So now I've got to find the button that dims the red dot.

01:13:06.000 So I mess around with this thing, and the whole team is outside, and they're watching this, right?

01:13:11.000 Because they're going to go on my shot.

01:13:12.000 Now, this dude had the door barricaded with a TV and a TV stand and all that stuff, so they were going to have to hit the door hard.

01:13:19.000 But they were going to get a running start at it, but I moved them out because they were right on the other side of the door, but I didn't know if my round was going to go through the wall or not, so I moved them out.

01:13:28.000 So we got them out. 0.95

01:13:29.000 So they're all watching this shit show, basically, of me on this optic. 0.98

01:13:33.000 And they're thinking, what are you doing, Turner, right? 0.99

01:13:36.000 And I'm thinking, I'm like, shit, I just gotta get this thing turned down, right? 0.95

01:13:39.000 So I mess with the buttons and I finally get to the right one. 0.98

01:13:43.000 So I'm like, okay, good.

01:13:45.000 So I go back up to the window.

01:13:48.000 You know, glass breaks again.

01:13:50.000 Pop, pop, pop underneath my feet.

01:13:51.000 I come around the corner.

01:13:52.000 Does this guy know you're there?

01:13:54.000 I don't know, because he was, I mean, who knows what kind of mental state he was in, and I was trying not to be too, that's why I didn't turn on any lights or anything.

01:14:05.000 So I come around the corner again, and I look in there, I'm like, okay, I got the right brightness, but it's too close, right?

01:14:11.000 Like her head was like an inch, because what I'm looking at is this.

01:14:14.000 So like this is the back of her head.

01:14:16.000 I'm looking at his eyeball.

01:14:18.000 So I got like an inch.

01:14:20.000 I'm like, nah, it's too close.

01:14:25.000 So this was in December.

01:14:27.000 A year earlier, it was 364 days after I made that decision in that tree stand, when I mapped things, right?

01:14:36.000 So now between December of 14 and December of 15, now I have control of what's going on.

01:14:44.000 And I made that vow, right, long ago that I'm not going to shoot an uncontrolled shot.

01:14:49.000 So I come around the corner, and I'm looking, and she's, of course, looking at me, and it's close.

01:14:54.000 I'm like, nah, I ain't gonna do that.

01:14:56.000 So I'm waiting, and then he moves his head back, right?

01:15:01.000 I'm like, okay, two and a half inches of mechanical offset, but his face is all covered in hair, like this giant mop of hair.

01:15:08.000 So I couldn't see the geography of his face at all.

01:15:11.000 Like, I'm going, I want to put it in his eyeball, but I don't...

01:15:14.000 I can't see it, right?

01:15:16.000 So I'm just going by the curvature of his forehead.

01:15:19.000 I know I've got to aim two and a half inches over that.

01:15:22.000 So I put it up there.

01:15:24.000 Safety's off.

01:15:25.000 Fingers on the trigger.

01:15:26.000 It's a two-stage trigger.

01:15:27.000 So I took the first stage out.

01:15:29.000 Here I go.

01:15:30.000 I remember saying that.

01:15:31.000 And then when I'm working on rifle stuff, it's kind of an audible exhale.

01:15:36.000 So that's my concentration guidance.

01:15:41.000 So I put it two and a half inches over where I wanted to hit.

01:15:44.000 Safety's off.

01:15:45.000 Takes the stage out of the trigger.

01:15:47.000 Here I go.

01:15:49.000 And he moves his head back, right?

01:15:52.000 And he pops it back against the back of her head.

01:15:56.000 And it's funny the stuff you remember because I remember his hair swishing.

01:16:01.000 So now he's back and it's too close again.

01:16:03.000 So I'm like, I'm waiting.

01:16:05.000 He moves his head back again.

01:16:07.000 So he moves his head back again.

01:16:09.000 Now I've got better, you know, it's faster for me to aim where I need to aim.

01:16:13.000 So I put it where I need to.

01:16:15.000 Stages out.

01:16:15.000 Here I go.

01:16:16.000 And the shot broke and the rest is history.

01:16:21.000 Worst case scenario in terms of tension, in terms of consequences.

01:16:28.000 Messed up guy, knife to this girl.

01:16:31.000 I mean, it's just the whole...

01:16:33.000 That was the culmination of everything.

01:16:36.000 That was the start of Shot IQ. Because now I'm like, this is no bullshit, right? 0.97

01:16:42.000 This is how to concentrate in high-stress events, right? 0.96

01:16:46.000 So...

01:16:46.000 And it was cool because I had lots of high-level military operators that I was able to bounce ideas off of.

01:16:53.000 Because I'm not getting in gunfights every day.

01:16:55.000 So I go, hey man, is this real or is this not real?

01:16:58.000 They're like, yeah, how'd you figure that out?

01:16:59.000 I'm like, I don't know. 1.00

01:17:00.000 I'm just a dumb cop, man. 0.99

01:17:01.000 Just thinking. 0.99

01:17:03.000 And so I was able to bounce things off of people that had been there and done that.

01:17:09.000 And when you're looking for solving a problem, you have to find those people that have solved it before.

01:17:16.000 But it's so rare to find somebody that solved it before and blueprinted how they did it.

01:17:21.000 You know, that's what's rare in the instruction and just in life in general.

01:17:25.000 You know, there's lots of mentors out there that have been there and done that in whatever field you're looking for.

01:17:30.000 But did they blueprint it?

01:17:32.000 I know a lot of bow hunters just bow hunt a lot, and that's their blueprint.

01:17:37.000 And a lot of these guys are like very effective trigger punchers.

01:17:41.000 And one of the reasons why they could do it is because they're shooting at animals all the time.

01:17:46.000 I mean, I know guys that hunt 200 plus days a year.

01:17:50.000 So the time between the last arrow they shot on an animal is very small.

01:17:55.000 So they're more calm.

01:17:57.000 They're more prepared.

01:17:58.000 Yeah, they've inoculated themselves to it.

01:18:00.000 But when you ask these people, Even if they're trigger punchers, they will still do a couple very specific things.

01:18:07.000 They will separate from the aim somehow, however they do it, right?

01:18:11.000 And they all say something.

01:18:13.000 Every one of them to a person.

01:18:15.000 I've interviewed hundreds of snipers, successful rifle hunters, successful bow hunters.

01:18:20.000 And they all say something at full draw.

01:18:23.000 Because that's what keeps you in the present moment.

01:18:26.000 And that's what keeps you in a closed loop.

01:18:27.000 That is their decision, right?

01:18:29.000 Whatever it is, right?

01:18:30.000 Whatever they say.

01:18:31.000 You know, when you look at these people, like, who taught you how to shoot?

01:18:36.000 Well, my grandpa, my dad, whatever it may be.

01:18:39.000 But nobody ever teaches that because we don't ask the right questions, right?

01:18:44.000 We don't go, hey, you know, professional archer, what are you thinking about when you're at full draw?

01:18:50.000 And most of them couldn't even tell you.

01:18:52.000 So you ask the question, what do you say?

01:18:54.000 Oh, I don't really want to tell you.

01:18:55.000 It's kind of embarrassing and whatever.

01:18:57.000 They all say something.

01:18:59.000 It's always different, but they all say something.

01:19:01.000 That's the pattern of success.

01:19:03.000 I asked Remy Warren about this, and one of the things Remy says is he goes, it sounds crazy, but I try to be the arrow.

01:19:11.000 Sure.

01:19:13.000 I mean, it's really, I love that, like, you are the arrow.

01:19:16.000 Like, the arrow goes where you want it to go, so be the arrow.

01:19:19.000 So he's shooting, he's not going, oh, I hope it hits!

01:19:23.000 He's, like, looking at that animal, he's like, that's where I'm gonna hit.

01:19:27.000 Does he say that?

01:19:28.000 I'm gonna be the arrow.

01:19:28.000 I believe so.

01:19:29.000 I mean, you have to ask him.

01:19:30.000 I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

01:19:31.000 That's the thing, man.

01:19:33.000 Everybody says something, so that's how he gets his consciousness into...

01:19:38.000 Whatever that is.

01:19:39.000 Now, if we take that and we refine that and put it into the actual movement that we want to happen, that's when you get to that higher level, right?

01:19:47.000 It's so fascinating how the mind is geared to survival, geared to react quickly to high stress panic situations, the adrenaline pumps, but you don't have an operator's manual.

01:20:02.000 Right.

01:20:02.000 On how to navigate the various stages of anxiety and these states that only occur rarely under very high-pressure situations, and you don't have a lot of experience with them.

01:20:17.000 You see that in street fights, where people who don't have training, they have no idea what to do, and you see the walls just I'll never forget this.

01:20:27.000 I mean, this is a clearly untrained person.

01:20:30.000 We were at the comedy store, and the comedy store is on Sunset in Hollywood, and there was a fight that was taking place across the street.

01:20:40.000 And there was all these cars that were passing by while watching these guys yell at each other and push each other.

01:20:47.000 And then I see this one guy whose eyes are squinting and he's decided to engage in this guy.

01:20:57.000 And I don't know if he's intoxicated.

01:20:58.000 I'm sure he's intoxicated. 1.00

01:20:59.000 But they're talking shit and they're pushing. 1.00

01:21:02.000 And then all of a sudden I see him. 0.91

01:21:05.000 Literally like closed eyes like squinting head up in the air and he's swinging like with open hands and then a bus goes in between Him and I and the guys fighting and then when the bus passes he's out cold He's out cold and the other guy walks off and I'm like wow like watching that guy panic and watching that guy in a situation where He'd probably never been before,

01:21:30.000 didn't know what to do, had talked himself into this terrible situation where he's an untrained fighter, an untrained guy who's fighting with another person.

01:21:39.000 And this guy's also untrained. 0.99

01:21:41.000 They both sucked. 0.97

01:21:41.000 But this one guy kept it together slightly more and cracked this dude with a haymaker, I guess. 0.97

01:21:48.000 I mean, I don't know, but he was just out cold on the street.

01:21:52.000 And I remember thinking, wow, anxiety is crazy.

01:21:56.000 It's...

01:21:58.000 Those the heart beating the adrenaline pumping and all that it's like those moments Overwhelm people where they can't stay in the moment.

01:22:08.000 Yeah, and I think what you've done with your shot IQ course is You've given people not just the tools to be effective at archery, but the tools to understand how to control your mind and During high pressure situations and stay in the moment and do the thing that's difficult to do under those high pressure situations.

01:22:33.000 And not just want it to be over with quick.

01:22:35.000 You just want it to be over with.

01:22:37.000 And you see that in fights too where guys swing when the guy's nowhere near them.

01:22:41.000 They'll just do stuff because they just want to...

01:22:43.000 And they leave their face exposed and they throw technique out the window.

01:22:48.000 It's just anxiety.

01:22:49.000 Yeah.

01:22:50.000 And knowing that these things exist and having like a followable course where you can, this is what's going on in your mind.

01:23:01.000 This is how you control your mind.

01:23:03.000 And you have to talk to yourself.

01:23:04.000 You have to be able to stay in the moment.

01:23:08.000 And the best way to stay in the moment is to actually have words going off in your mind.

01:23:13.000 Yeah.

01:23:14.000 I get the opportunity to talk to psychologists, and I just had one at the house that came for a clinic.

01:23:23.000 It's funny when you talk to these people because it's hard to find a psychologist that has been there and done the things that we're talking about.

01:23:32.000 Right.

01:23:33.000 And they usually go too deep.

01:23:35.000 So there's a depth that you can't go past because it becomes intangible, right?

01:23:42.000 So when I ask the doctor, like, Doc, am I right when I say this?

01:23:47.000 And he's like, oh yeah, that's this and this and this and this.

01:23:49.000 I'm like, is that how you teach it?

01:23:50.000 Well, yeah, that's what I talk about.

01:23:52.000 Well...

01:23:53.000 It's too deep, right?

01:23:55.000 It's intangible.

01:23:57.000 When you talk about...

01:23:58.000 People aren't going to carry it with them in a high pressure situation.

01:24:02.000 How do you increase confidence at the moment of truth?

01:24:05.000 How do you get your conscious bubble to get the same size as your self-image bubble?

01:24:09.000 It's all intangible stuff, right?

01:24:11.000 This is what I'm talking about is how do you get it...

01:24:15.000 It's tangible.

01:24:16.000 This is the tool that you need to use.

01:24:18.000 This is why you're using it.

01:24:20.000 And this is what happens, right?

01:24:22.000 And people take instruction and they're looking for the magic pill, right?

01:24:26.000 Like, oh, if I take your course, is this going to fix me?

01:24:29.000 Not if you have that approach, it's not, right?

01:24:32.000 Because I can't teach you determination.

01:24:34.000 I can help you find it, right?

01:24:36.000 Like in SWAT training, a lot of times we have to run 100 meters and shoot 100 meters.

01:24:41.000 Standing unsupported, 8-inch steel plate.

01:24:44.000 Doesn't sound that hard, but when you're huffing and puffing, and if you go open loop, you're going to miss.

01:24:49.000 So I remember this one time, one of my snipers is, he'd run 100 meters, get to where I was, shoot, pow, miss, 20 push-ups, right?

01:24:58.000 20 push-ups.

01:24:59.000 Run 100 meters, down and back, come up, pow, miss.

01:25:04.000 And I'm like, 20 push-ups.

01:25:05.000 So he does 20 push-ups, come back, down, pow, miss, 20 push-ups.

01:25:10.000 This time I got down on the ground with him.

01:25:11.000 I said, what's your job?

01:25:13.000 He said, sir, my job is to hit the target.

01:25:15.000 I said, that's not your job.

01:25:16.000 Your job is to move the trigger slow enough you could stop it.

01:25:19.000 That's your job, right?

01:25:21.000 If you do that, there's no way you can miss the target.

01:25:25.000 And so then after that, there was no more misses.

01:25:28.000 But he didn't have his job defined, right?

01:25:31.000 Your job is not to kill the bull elk.

01:25:34.000 Your job is not even to shoot the shot.

01:25:36.000 Your job is to move your trigger slow enough you could stop it.

01:25:41.000 When you do your job, your actual job, the results take care of themselves.

01:25:45.000 And there's a lot of stuff that we have no control over.

01:25:47.000 You can't control that axis to your jump and your string.

01:25:51.000 You can't do that.

01:25:52.000 You have to stay in your job, but you've got to have defined, what is that?

01:25:57.000 What is the true problem here?

01:26:00.000 And I was just like anybody else trying to figure out this shot control thing, but I didn't know what the problem was.

01:26:07.000 Nobody had actually defined the problem.

01:26:09.000 Your subconscious mind will not allow you to cause your body impact as a surprise.

01:26:14.000 That's the problem in shooting in general.

01:26:17.000 Anticipation.

01:26:18.000 Yeah, and once we figured that out, now we can start to attack.

01:26:21.000 What sciences do I need to figure out that deal with this stuff?

01:26:24.000 And I was lucky to have the right people in the right places to figure this stuff out, but it's putting it in that package so that you can define your job, and then how do you attack it, right?

01:26:35.000 So...

01:26:37.000 It's such an amazing thing that you've done that I really feel like it should be mandatory.

01:26:44.000 I really do.

01:26:45.000 I think there's so many people that go out into the woods to hunt archery, and they don't know what's going to happen when they pull that trigger the first time.

01:26:56.000 They've never done it before.

01:26:57.000 So the first time they ever do it, it's like, whoa!

01:27:02.000 If they knew what you're teaching, I really think that the rate of success would go up exponentially and the rate of bad shots taken would go up as well.

01:27:13.000 That would go down.

01:27:14.000 I really believe that people would be far more effective.

01:27:18.000 I'm just trying to erase the mystery in it, right?

01:27:20.000 Like when you shoot your next shot on whatever hunt you're going on or whatever you're doing, you know how it's going to go.

01:27:25.000 There's no mystery to it.

01:27:27.000 You know you're gonna draw back and aim.

01:27:29.000 You know that you're gonna roll to the click in your hinge.

01:27:31.000 You know you're gonna say, here I go.

01:27:33.000 You know you're gonna say, pull, pull, pull.

01:27:36.000 There's no mystery to it anymore.

01:27:37.000 Whereas most people, they have mystery in their shot.

01:27:40.000 They don't know how it's gonna go.

01:27:42.000 They hope it goes well.

01:27:44.000 And then there's this thing that people do where the moment the shot goes off, they move their bow because they want to see.

01:27:50.000 Sure.

01:27:51.000 That's a pre-ignition movement.

01:27:52.000 Yeah, they call it peaking.

01:27:54.000 Yeah.

01:27:54.000 Yeah, and it's a real problem with bow hunting.

01:27:58.000 If you stay in the process we're talking about, you can't peak because you don't know when your bow is going off.

01:28:03.000 Right.

01:28:03.000 So your body doesn't know when to do that.

01:28:06.000 Right.

01:28:06.000 It doesn't know when to do all these weird pre-ignition movements that it does to brace you.

01:28:09.000 And you don't even know you're going to do it until you do it. 0.93

01:28:12.000 And then you're like, what the fuck is wrong with me? 0.98

01:28:14.000 Yeah, right. 0.98

01:28:15.000 I remember being there, man.

01:28:17.000 I remember I missed so many.

01:28:18.000 I mean, I'm a two-time World Elk Calling champion.

01:28:21.000 I can call Elkin like a chicken on a string, but I could not hold myself together.

01:28:26.000 It was ridiculous, man, some of the shots I took. 0.97

01:28:29.000 I'm like, what just happened? 0.96

01:28:31.000 It's like somebody else shot the shot for me.

01:28:33.000 Complete blackouts, all this stuff.

01:28:35.000 What's amazing that there's all these different people that come up with all these different methods to try to beat target panic.

01:28:42.000 And one of the things they do, they work on the mechanics by blind bailing.

01:28:46.000 And what blind bailing is, for the people who don't understand archery, is you literally stand in front of a large target like a bale, like a bale of hay, and you stand close to it.

01:28:56.000 And all you're doing, you're not even thinking about where you're going to hit.

01:28:58.000 A lot of times you close your eyes and you're just going through the mechanics of the shot.

01:29:03.000 So the mechanics of the shot Get programmed into your system, which gives you a little more confidence that you know how to do the mechanics, but it doesn't stop you from freaking out at the moment.

01:29:15.000 It just doesn't.

01:29:16.000 And so all these people that have all these different methods, it's really like someone who doesn't understand what's really going on trying to explain it to someone who also doesn't understand what's really going on.

01:29:29.000 Is that good for defining and refining your movements as an archer?

01:29:35.000 Certainly.

01:29:36.000 You should teach someone how to blind bail when you're first learning archery because you want them to be able to understand how the shot should break.

01:29:44.000 But without the knowledge that you're presenting of what's going on in that high pressure situation, they're going to spaz out and they're going to go open loop.

01:29:57.000 But in the instruction for decades, that's been it, right?

01:30:00.000 We blind bail.

01:30:00.000 And people spend months, like, you should blind bail for six months, or maybe you start with a close target and then you move it out slightly, slightly, slightly.

01:30:09.000 All that is trying to get you to do is separate from the aim.

01:30:12.000 So just, let's cut to the chase, man.

01:30:14.000 Right.

01:30:14.000 Don't waste six months of your life shooting a blind bail.

01:30:17.000 Let's shoot a good shot, blueprint it, understand exactly how you do it, and then you have to test it on a target.

01:30:25.000 And, you know, some people are like, well, as soon as I, and this is even in my course, and I have to take this out because I filmed that course in 2015 and 16, and since then, the online course, I've got lots of updates to it, but there's one portion of it that I need to take out because in there I say,

01:30:43.000 and this is how it was when I first started, when it was in its infancy, if you detect an error, let the shot down, right?

01:30:49.000 That makes sense, right?

01:30:50.000 If you detect an error, let it down.

01:30:52.000 I don't say that anymore because now every time you detect an error, like let's say that you draw back and you're like, oh man, I'm really shaky.

01:31:01.000 Oh wait, I'm not supposed to be thinking about my aim.

01:31:03.000 Let it down, right?

01:31:05.000 Well, your subconscious just won that shot.

01:31:08.000 It's like, oh, if I get Joe to shake and recognize that, he'll bail out of the shot.

01:31:15.000 Your subconscious does not want you to create an explosion in your body.

01:31:19.000 It never just intuitively wants that.

01:31:22.000 So if it can get you to bail out of a shot, it will.

01:31:25.000 So now, when you detect an error, when you are training, when you detect an error, you're not allowed to let down.

01:31:33.000 You have to stay at full draw and fix it in the shot.

01:31:37.000 Recognize the problem, understand how to fix it.

01:31:40.000 Maybe another here I go to increase your presence so that you can concentrate.

01:31:44.000 But you have to fix it in the shot.

01:31:46.000 We don't let people let down anymore.

01:31:48.000 And people are like, oh, the archery instructors are going to lose their mind when they hear, like, oh my god, Turner's telling people not to let down.

01:31:54.000 I let down in tournaments if I have a shot that went stale because I wasn't thinking about the right movement.

01:32:01.000 Shot maybe goes stale.

01:32:02.000 You'll see Bodie do that every now and again.

01:32:04.000 There's a certain point of pressure in the bow where you're not going to hit the X. There's too much pressure built up, right?

01:32:12.000 You're just not going to hit the X. So if you have time to on the clock, you let it down.

01:32:16.000 But recognize, what was the problem there?

01:32:18.000 Ah, I wasn't thinking about the movement.

01:32:20.000 I was thinking about my aim or whatever.

01:32:22.000 Very interesting when you look at Bodie's interview from Lancaster in 21, or 22, actually, when he shot that 660. Because they interview him right after that shot, and he let it down before he actually shot his 60th arrow for the 660. And he tells you exactly what's going through his head.

01:32:42.000 He says, oh man, my pin was jumping from red to red.

01:32:47.000 And he left it at that, and I'm like, well, that's why it went stale, because you're thinking about your pin shaking on a target, so you're not thinking about moving the release.

01:32:55.000 And then they ask him about the next shot.

01:32:57.000 Well, it was good enough, so I just kept my release moving.

01:33:01.000 Thank you very much, right?

01:33:03.000 That's where the mind needs to be.

01:33:05.000 But it's so counterintuitive.

01:33:06.000 It is, but it's just the way it works, right?

01:33:09.000 And so just cutting to the chase and cutting out all the crap and giving people a specific blueprint to To eliminate the mystery in your shot, right?

01:33:20.000 Or in your whatever you're doing, right?

01:33:22.000 Whatever a precision professional needs to concentrate, this is how you do it in a tangible way.

01:33:27.000 And I feel like there's a way to translate this to many other things.

01:33:32.000 I don't feel like this is just limited to archery.

01:33:34.000 Sure.

01:33:35.000 Like I said, it's like the ultimate proving ground for being able to overcome anxiety and be able to stay in the moment.

01:33:42.000 But I feel like the principles that you're applying could be given to all sorts of other high-stress occupations.

01:33:52.000 Sure.

01:33:53.000 Yeah.

01:33:54.000 Anytime somebody has to concentrate for whatever it may be, this is how you do it, right?

01:34:02.000 And it may be for a movement.

01:34:03.000 It may not be.

01:34:04.000 It may be a major decision that you have to make.

01:34:06.000 It may be a surgeon, right?

01:34:09.000 It may be a pilot.

01:34:10.000 It may be a jet mechanic.

01:34:12.000 It could be anything where you have to concentrate on a movement where there are consequences if you screw it up.

01:34:19.000 And concentrating on those movements in the mind and talking yourself through the movements rather than, don't fuck this up.

01:34:27.000 Oh my god, I hope I don't crash. 0.54

01:34:28.000 Oh my god, I don't cut the wrong artery.

01:34:30.000 Oh my god, I hope I don't do this.

01:34:32.000 It's like the self-talk is so important because if you don't have a positive self-talk, like a constructive... 0.82

01:34:43.000 Technical self-talk, you're going to allow the mind to have a bunch of other shit to think about and concentrate on and focus on.

01:34:52.000 And a lot of that is counterintuitive. 0.96

01:34:54.000 A lot of that is counterproductive.

01:34:56.000 And it's very strange how the mind will sabotage you, but it just will.

01:35:01.000 It just will.

01:35:02.000 Because your mind's not designed to shoot arrows.

01:35:05.000 Your mind's designed to run away from a cheetah or something.

01:35:08.000 You know, something's trying to eat you or, you know, a warring tribe member who's chasing after you, like, ah!

01:35:13.000 You gotta run.

01:35:14.000 You gotta get out of there quick.

01:35:15.000 You can't think.

01:35:16.000 Yeah, it's that fight or flight stuff, right?

01:35:18.000 Exactly.

01:35:18.000 I mean, you're overriding that every time you shoot an arrow.

01:35:21.000 Yes, yes.

01:35:22.000 And, yeah, it's just powerful stuff.

01:35:24.000 I know guys, they take drugs to try to get past it.

01:35:27.000 They take beta blockers to try to, like, kill all their anxiety and kill all of their, I mean, their nerves and their adrenaline.

01:35:36.000 Yeah.

01:35:37.000 But, you know, you can't rely on that.

01:35:39.000 And not only that, they test for those things.

01:35:42.000 Yes, they do.

01:35:42.000 Archery competitions.

01:35:43.000 Yes, they do.

01:35:44.000 Which is fascinating.

01:35:45.000 Yeah.

01:35:45.000 You know, it's so interesting that people have been bow hunting for so long, and then you come along with this one method...

01:35:56.000 That really changes everything.

01:35:58.000 I really think it does.

01:35:59.000 There's been great archery coaches that have come up with ways to overcome target panic.

01:36:07.000 John Dudley came up with this hinge Or rather this silverback release that is completely tension activated.

01:36:18.000 And what that is, if people don't understand, is you don't know when it's going off.

01:36:22.000 So you pull and it's set to a few pounds over the draw weight of your bow.

01:36:27.000 So you pull all the way back.

01:36:29.000 You're holding it in place.

01:36:31.000 And then you release the safety, and then you pull slightly harder, and it goes off.

01:36:37.000 But you really don't know when it's going to go off.

01:36:40.000 But you are anticipating that it's going to go off.

01:36:43.000 And sometimes you're just like, oh, when's it going to go off?

01:36:45.000 When's it going to go off?

01:36:46.000 Oh, jeez, I hope it works!

01:36:48.000 And then it goes off.

01:36:49.000 It could work or it could not work.

01:36:52.000 There's nothing wrong with the tension activated release.

01:36:55.000 It's a great release.

01:36:57.000 But it would be way better if you knew what the process was, what's going on in your mind as you're doing it.

01:37:04.000 If you say, here I go.

01:37:06.000 And then you like pull, pull, pull, bang!

01:37:10.000 And then it goes off.

01:37:11.000 Instead of all that, oh my god, what's happening?

01:37:14.000 I don't fuck this up. 0.62

01:37:14.000 I don't know. 0.62

01:37:16.000 Don't miss!

01:37:17.000 Don't wound the animal! 1.00

01:37:18.000 Don't fucking shoot over his head! 1.00

01:37:21.000 Don't look like an asshole! 1.00

01:37:22.000 Don't hate yourself again! 1.00

01:37:23.000 Don't Yeah, there's all that stuff.

01:37:26.000 The tension active release was quite an invention.

01:37:29.000 It changed.

01:37:30.000 Like I said- Was the Evolution the first one of those?

01:37:32.000 The Carter Evolution?

01:37:33.000 Yeah, I believe so.

01:37:33.000 I think Dudley was involved in that.

01:37:35.000 That's the one I bought Bodie when he was three years old.

01:37:38.000 And it separates it for you.

01:37:41.000 It's a mechanical fix to a mental problem.

01:37:44.000 The problem is that it's so based on preload, how much you're pulling when you let that safety off, That there's no professional archer out there that shoots attention-activated release.

01:37:55.000 Right.

01:37:56.000 Because it's not the most accurate system, but it's the easiest one to control because of that safety, right?

01:38:01.000 And it makes the decision for you because if you don't pull, your bow's not going off.

01:38:05.000 So what I do in my clinics when I have somebody that's not determined enough to make a decision, like they just keep punching the trigger.

01:38:13.000 I don't know why this isn't working.

01:38:15.000 It's because nothing works for you in shooting, right?

01:38:18.000 In shot control, nothing works for you.

01:38:19.000 You have to work for it.

01:38:21.000 The only thing we're teaching you is what work needs to be done and how to do the work. 0.93

01:38:25.000 But when you take this tension active release, if they just won't stop punching whatever other release they're doing, I'll take that tension active release and I'll screw that sucker down where it won't go off, right? 0.76

01:38:36.000 So, okay, here's how it works. 0.87

01:38:38.000 I tell them how it works.

01:38:39.000 Push the safety in, draw back and aim, then take the safety off, and you've got to pull.

01:38:42.000 Okay, yeah, no problem.

01:38:43.000 So they push the safety in, and this may be a person that hasn't even been able to aim yet.

01:38:47.000 Like, they're always locked off target.

01:38:49.000 Safety's on, they draw back, and now all of a sudden they can aim because the safety's on, right?

01:38:55.000 So now they can separate from that aim.

01:38:57.000 They're like, okay, and they kind of timidly take the safety off.

01:39:00.000 I'm like, okay, now you've got to do this pull.

01:39:02.000 Here comes the flood.

01:39:03.000 Right, so they start pulling.

01:39:05.000 And they're just pulling a little bit, and then all of a sudden, they give it this big old yank, but it doesn't go off.

01:39:09.000 Right?

01:39:10.000 So I'm like, okay, push the safety in, let it down.

01:39:13.000 What were you thinking about?

01:39:15.000 Well, I was thinking about pulling, and then there's always a, and then I started thinking about when's it going to go off?

01:39:23.000 How much is this going to take?

01:39:24.000 Why hasn't it gone off yet?

01:39:25.000 And that's the moment at which autopilot, the subconscious, comes in and gives it that big old help.

01:39:30.000 Right?

01:39:30.000 So then I have them, okay, here's what you need to do.

01:39:34.000 Here I go.

01:39:35.000 Take the safety off.

01:39:36.000 Then say, here I go to up your presence and then talk yourself through moving.

01:39:39.000 Okay, yeah, sure.

01:39:40.000 Here we go.

01:39:40.000 So they do it.

01:39:41.000 They take the safety off and they start pulling.

01:39:44.000 And then you can see the change.

01:39:46.000 We're like, okay, I guess I just got to pull.

01:39:48.000 So they keep Pulling and pulling and pulling and pulling.

01:39:50.000 They're just shaking like crazy, but it doesn't go off.

01:39:53.000 Safety in?

01:39:54.000 Let it down.

01:39:54.000 What are you thinking about?

01:39:55.000 I was just thinking about pulling.

01:39:57.000 Thank you.

01:39:58.000 Now we can start.

01:39:59.000 Right?

01:39:59.000 Until you get them singular minded, then we blueprint.

01:40:02.000 How did you get yourself to do that?

01:40:03.000 What were you saying?

01:40:04.000 What were you thinking?

01:40:05.000 What were you saying?

01:40:06.000 Could you stop it?

01:40:07.000 What decisions did you make?

01:40:08.000 Right?

01:40:09.000 I was using attention-activated release for a while.

01:40:12.000 And I was using attention-activated release with your principals.

01:40:16.000 And I shot one of the best shots I've ever shot.

01:40:18.000 There's a photo out there with me and Cam with this elk.

01:40:21.000 Perfect shot, 67 yards, 10 ringed him.

01:40:24.000 Perfect.

01:40:25.000 And it was in that thing, because I knew Cam was filming it, and it was a lot of pressure.

01:40:29.000 He's one of my best friends.

01:40:30.000 Sure, sure.

01:40:31.000 You know, taught me how to shoot.

01:40:32.000 He's right next to me. 1.00

01:40:33.000 And it's like this big fucking elk. 0.99

01:40:35.000 He just got done fighting this elk, and he moves, and he moves broadside. 0.99

01:40:39.000 And Cam's like, take the shot.

01:40:41.000 So I draw back, I center it, I pull it through, and it was just perfect.

01:40:45.000 And I'll never forget, watching that arrow, because I have a green Luminoc, and I'm watching that green Luminoc just swat!

01:40:52.000 Just right in the spot.

01:40:54.000 And after that shot, it was a perfect shot, but after that shot I realized, That's not the most accurate way to do this.

01:41:02.000 That I feel like there's something about the tension activated thing, I need to apply that now to a trigger and to a hinge.

01:41:10.000 And so I started moving to that.

01:41:12.000 And it was this thing like, oh boy, now this is a totally different thing, but go through the same principles again.

01:41:18.000 And it's helped me tremendously.

01:41:21.000 It's made such a big difference.

01:41:23.000 To know that you have to control those movements and you have to have that self-talk.

01:41:28.000 You have to have that mantra.

01:41:29.000 You have to have that thing in your mind where you stay in the presence.

01:41:32.000 Yeah.

01:41:32.000 You should be able to control any release.

01:41:34.000 Yeah.

01:41:35.000 I should be able to fill this table with releases and go, there you go, Joe.

01:41:39.000 And just, you know, index finger trigger, thumb button, hinge, tension activated, pick it up, understand how the trigger works, And control it, no matter what.

01:41:48.000 And is that possible even with an index trigger if you're just pulling the trigger?

01:41:52.000 So even an index trigger, a full draw, if you're just like pull, pull, pull, pull, pull, bink, with the finger?

01:41:59.000 You can, usually.

01:41:59.000 So what we do is we teach people to open their whole hand and just wrap their finger around the trigger and then pull their hand through the strap.

01:42:09.000 They're not moving their finger at all, they're just pulling their hand through the strap.

01:42:11.000 It's easier to control this bigger movement, right?

01:42:13.000 So when they do that, that, I mean, that's plenty of motion to be able to do that.

01:42:17.000 And so they just hook in.

01:42:19.000 Here I go.

01:42:21.000 Pull. 0.98

01:42:21.000 But there's a desire to pull with the finger. 0.98

01:42:24.000 Right.

01:42:24.000 Oh, there is, right?

01:42:25.000 But when you, that's why we use index fingers. 0.97

01:42:28.000 Like if people bring me the worst piece of crap with a whole bunch of travel, gritty, sears, all kinds of nastiness, right? 0.93

01:42:36.000 I'm like, perfect. 0.99

01:42:37.000 Perfect.

01:42:38.000 Because when you control that one and you understand how you did it, the world is yours, right?

01:42:43.000 And then you get into selecting a release, like, okay, this release, I can go closed loop on this easier.

01:42:48.000 I can evaluate the movement, the pressure increase, without a bunch of travel.

01:42:52.000 So now, once you have this knowledge, you can actually pick a release that you can evaluate best, right?

01:42:58.000 And it's, you know, it may be a thumb button, it may be a hinge, it may be an index finger trigger, there's all kinds of releases out there.

01:43:04.000 But the whole archery industry Is built around target panic.

01:43:09.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:43:10.000 It's crazy, man.

01:43:12.000 Well, being you and having come up with this system and recognizing that, what's interesting to me is I see resistance.

01:43:20.000 And I see people that they get upset.

01:43:24.000 They don't do it your way, so they get upset that you're teaching this.

01:43:28.000 And they're like, no, no, no, no, no.

01:43:30.000 I don't believe this.

01:43:31.000 And I don't believe that.

01:43:32.000 But it's fascinating because you see that with all sorts of other things where there's a high rate of failure.

01:43:39.000 When someone comes up with a solution, everyone wants to think they have the solution. 0.99

01:43:43.000 I don't want to mindfuck myself. 0.98

01:43:44.000 I already got it figured out. 1.00

01:43:46.000 I'm a stone cold killer.

01:43:47.000 Once I'm on the target, I never miss.

01:43:49.000 And they say that to themselves because they want to believe that.

01:43:53.000 And I'm not trying to change.

01:43:54.000 If you are a stone-cold killer and you have a system on how you do it, that's awesome.

01:44:01.000 But it's when you try to put it to somebody else, right?

01:44:05.000 Like, I didn't grow up being a good shot.

01:44:07.000 I grew up being a horrible shot, but just loving shooting so much that I wanted to figure it out.

01:44:12.000 And then I had these sounding boards of, you know, my determination well was deep with the sniper stuff, but I had this sounding board of bowhunting where I was constantly failing, right?

01:44:22.000 If you have a system and you know how you do it, if you know exactly how you're going to shoot your next shot, then you don't need to change a thing.

01:44:30.000 But if you don't know, if there's any mystery in that, then that's a problem.

01:44:36.000 I mean, do you want to be the person that, you know, somebody calls you in a big old bowl or whatever and you botch a super easy shot that you certainly should have made?

01:44:45.000 There can be no mystery.

01:44:47.000 So if you don't have mystery, more power to you.

01:44:50.000 If you, you know, if there's any mystery in it, you better get it out. 0.98

01:44:55.000 Yeah, because there are unique individuals that just keep their shit together. 0.99

01:44:58.000 Sure. 0.99

01:44:58.000 That's a personality thing. 0.99

01:44:59.000 Yeah.

01:45:00.000 And it is like these very calm people that just know how to stay calm.

01:45:05.000 But...

01:45:06.000 Good luck teaching that.

01:45:07.000 Yeah.

01:45:07.000 You know, you can teach someone to not be calm but to work their way through it and still execute a perfect shot.

01:45:14.000 Yeah, I don't usually put relaxation in any portion of the instruction because it's probably not going to happen.

01:45:18.000 Right.

01:45:19.000 Right?

01:45:19.000 I don't...

01:45:20.000 Okay, this is the relaxed state.

01:45:21.000 This is the stage you...

01:45:22.000 How are you going to do that?

01:45:23.000 Well, you can do things to control your breathing, and you can do things to control your heart rate.

01:45:29.000 So that breathing, and I don't know if it was on your podcast, but Huberman was talking about that you inhale through your nose.

01:45:37.000 And then you give it an extra inhale, so you inhale to the top, and then you do it again, which inflates different stuff in your lungs.

01:45:45.000 We always did combat breathing, right?

01:45:48.000 In through the nose for four, hold for four, out through the mouth for four, hold for four. 1.00

01:45:53.000 That was what we always did in tactical stuff, and that's the only breathing techniques I've learned.

01:45:58.000 I listened to Huberman's thing and I used it at Vegas this year because Vegas, indoor archery, is strange because it's just a yellow line on the floor.

01:46:10.000 It's the only thing that makes me nervous.

01:46:13.000 I shake like a dog crapping tax when I'm on that yellow line and say, this is your first scoring end and everybody knows what that means.

01:46:20.000 They're like...

01:46:21.000 I mean, it is a thing in indoor archery because your target is so small, right?

01:46:25.000 And if Bodie misses the 10 ring when he's shooting for his 900 in Vegas just to get to the shoot-off, if you miss one time, your weekend is done, right?

01:46:36.000 You just lost six figures.

01:46:39.000 With one shot.

01:46:40.000 So much pressure.

01:47:00.000 Yeah, this is a concentration test.

01:47:02.000 Now, I'm getting through my frickin' mechanoreceptive trigger no matter what. 0.75

01:47:06.000 I mean, you see people shoot their name tags and shoot them into the bleachers, and it's, dude, it's crazy. 0.99

01:47:13.000 It is a massive shit show in indoor archery. 0.99

01:47:16.000 It is amazing what that yellow line does to you on the floor. 0.99

01:47:19.000 But if you listen to your body when you're on that yellow line and it's for score, you can learn so much.

01:47:25.000 Right?

01:47:26.000 Like, I get to shoot, at Lancaster, I get to shoot 60 arrows in a day on that line.

01:47:31.000 And Vegas, I get to shoot 30 arrows a day.

01:47:34.000 Right?

01:47:34.000 You get to shoot one, two, maybe three arrows a year at Big Bull Elk.

01:47:39.000 And that's more than most people get.

01:47:40.000 Right?

01:47:41.000 Most people get one shot in 10 years.

01:47:43.000 How in the world do you practice what's going to happen to your body?

01:47:47.000 Right.

01:47:47.000 So getting on that line in indoor archery, I highly recommend people do that.

01:47:52.000 And, you know, shoot it for score.

01:47:54.000 Put some pressure on yourself, right?

01:47:56.000 There's a lot of money at stake with these things, and it's just I can't find it anywhere else.

01:48:01.000 But after doing Huberman's breathing technique, that was pretty cool this year.

01:48:06.000 It was different.

01:48:07.000 And I watched that for some reason.

01:48:08.000 I watched it right before I was on the line in Vegas.

01:48:12.000 So what is the specific thing that you do?

01:48:13.000 So you breathe in through your nose to the top.

01:48:18.000 And then you give it an extra, and you'll feel the tension, right?

01:48:21.000 And then it's a long exhale through the mouth, and I'm sure it does the same thing that combat breathing does, that box breathing, but it worked better.

01:48:32.000 And it's faster, right?

01:48:34.000 Box breathing is, you know, you've got several four counts in there when you may not have enough time for that.

01:48:39.000 So I found it very valuable.

01:48:41.000 It was really cool stuff.

01:48:43.000 Wow.

01:48:43.000 Are you surprised that you're the only one that's put this to archery?

01:48:49.000 That you've mapped this out?

01:48:51.000 We're talking about who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people are involved in competitive archery and bow hunting.

01:48:59.000 Are you surprised that the amount of time that people have been doing this and the amount of time that people have been dealing with it, as you said, There's like an entire industry that's built around target panic, but that no one has ever gotten to the root cause of what this is and recognize that not only is this applicable to archery,

01:49:18.000 it's applicable to all high-pressure situations where you have to physically perform.

01:49:24.000 Right.

01:49:25.000 So I think it was the perfect storm of the jobs that I had, right?

01:49:31.000 Again, the sounding board of bow hunting, the job of tactical work.

01:49:37.000 That's a rare combination.

01:49:40.000 So I think I needed it the worst.

01:49:42.000 Because I was not good.

01:49:44.000 I was not good.

01:49:45.000 I was not in a good place in shooting.

01:49:47.000 I needed it the worst.

01:49:49.000 And that's what sent me down.

01:49:51.000 I don't know why anybody didn't come up with that core problem.

01:49:55.000 Because when you talk about it, and you talk about it to very smart people, they're like, okay.

01:50:01.000 Why didn't I think of that?

01:50:02.000 I'm like, I don't know why you didn't think of that.

01:50:04.000 But you didn't.

01:50:05.000 And now it's copyrighted.

01:50:08.000 But, I mean, thank God you did.

01:50:12.000 You've changed the way I shoot.

01:50:14.000 And I know you've changed the way a lot of people shoot.

01:50:16.000 And I've talked to people that use your program.

01:50:18.000 And I've talked to, like, Peter Atiyah, who is one of the most brilliant guys I know, is 100% all in on what you've taught.

01:50:25.000 And not just with that, but also with pistol shooting.

01:50:27.000 He's like, it's completely changed the way I shoot my pistol.

01:50:31.000 Completely changed my accuracy.

01:50:33.000 The results have been phenomenal.

01:50:35.000 And he's like, it's just so amazing that, you know, a person who, and I think it's very important that you experience so much failure, because you had to come up with a method.

01:50:47.000 Yeah.

01:50:48.000 You weren't like a natural.

01:50:49.000 You weren't like a naturally calm guy who just like figures it out.

01:50:52.000 You're just this stone cold guy that under pressure your heart never beats over 50 beats a minute.

01:50:57.000 It's not you.

01:50:59.000 So it's really kind of an amazing thing that sometimes you'll have these complex problems in these industries that are overwhelmed with people.

01:51:09.000 It's not like there's a tiny amount of people doing it.

01:51:11.000 But one person finds this doorway like, hey guys, there's a way out of this.

01:51:18.000 We've got to go this way.

01:51:19.000 And if enough people listen to you, again, it's one of the reasons why I want to talk to you about this. 0.98

01:51:24.000 Like, are you going to have a whole fucking show on archery? 0.98

01:51:27.000 Yes, but no. 0.99

01:51:29.000 Because I think it applies to so many things in life. 0.92

01:51:33.000 The ability to stay in the moment and not lose your shit and have in your mind the very specific task you're trying to do and think about that only. 0.97

01:51:45.000 And do so with words. 0.99

01:51:47.000 Do so in your mind with words, so even though your fucking heart is racing, anxiety's at an all-time high, there's all this adrenaline, you still can execute. 0.95

01:51:58.000 You still can do the thing that you want to do. 0.98

01:52:01.000 Yeah, it's powerful stuff, man.

01:52:03.000 It's powerful stuff, man.

01:52:05.000 It really...

01:52:05.000 Is it...

01:52:06.000 Does it feel shocking that you're the guy that's figured this out?

01:52:11.000 I can't believe I'm sitting here talking to you right now.

01:52:16.000 I don't know, man.

01:52:19.000 I tried everything, but the problem is I only tried.

01:52:24.000 Trying is not strong enough to override your central nervous system.

01:52:27.000 And that's what most people are looking at.

01:52:28.000 They're just trying to do it.

01:52:30.000 I'm trying to get better.

01:52:31.000 I'm working on it.

01:52:32.000 This is not something you work on.

01:52:34.000 Either you do it or you don't.

01:52:35.000 We just had to figure out what the problem was, you know?

01:52:39.000 And figuring out...

01:52:40.000 It's simple, but it is not easy.

01:52:45.000 Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

01:52:46.000 Do you find that that applies to other things in your life?

01:52:51.000 That you've used these principles in other ways, in other high-pressure situations?

01:52:56.000 Yeah, well, you know, coming into this studio and seeing how much culture you have, like, man, I've lived a very narrow life.

01:53:04.000 So, I mean, my whole life has been about shooting.

01:53:07.000 It's been about archery.

01:53:08.000 Every job I've ever held has had to do with shooting.

01:53:13.000 And I use it, but I find decisions much easier now.

01:53:17.000 I don't have to say, oh, gee, should I do this?

01:53:20.000 Should I do that?

01:53:20.000 What's the problem, right?

01:53:22.000 Let's find out what is the actual problem, what's the depth I need to get to in this problem, and then has anybody solved it before?

01:53:29.000 Did they blueprint it?

01:53:32.000 Figuring out problems in your life is so much easier now because people figured out most things.

01:53:38.000 They just didn't happen to figure this one out.

01:53:41.000 It's good for me, I guess.

01:53:45.000 I use it, but I'm a very determined person.

01:53:48.000 I just didn't know where to put it.

01:53:51.000 I've always been determined, but didn't know where to put it.

01:53:55.000 I have to show people, how do you manufacture determination?

01:53:58.000 Like, how do you get enough determination to do your cold plunge every day?

01:54:01.000 Right?

01:54:02.000 That doesn't just happen.

01:54:03.000 You decide to do that.

01:54:05.000 So, where does your determination come from?

01:54:09.000 What is your why?

01:54:10.000 And my why was that HR that I was in.

01:54:13.000 That was my why.

01:54:14.000 I knew that was going to happen.

01:54:15.000 I mean, it's probably going to happen.

01:54:18.000 So, you have to be ready for it.

01:54:20.000 That's my why.

01:54:21.000 And then it came to fruition, and here we are.

01:54:23.000 But...

01:54:23.000 It's, people gotta figure out their why on what they're doing.

01:54:27.000 And once they do that, they'll figure it out.

01:54:29.000 Have you talked to people that have applied this stuff to other things?

01:54:32.000 That have told you that this helps me with other things?

01:54:35.000 Yeah, so we're trying to figure, I mean, I'm constantly racking my brain like, how can I have the most impact?

01:54:42.000 I've had a lot of impact on the shooting world.

01:54:44.000 How can I have impact on other things?

01:54:47.000 And I've had people tell me they use it for presentations.

01:54:50.000 I've had them tell me they use it for closing sales.

01:54:54.000 I've had them talk about, you know, just how they use it in business.

01:54:57.000 Maybe a CEO making a decision.

01:55:01.000 Surgeons.

01:55:01.000 Like I said, I had a surgeon come to me and he said he completely changed how he instructs Surgery after the signature test and after learning, he already knew open and closed loop control systems, but doctors seem to learn that stuff very early on and it's not used that much in medical fields.

01:55:22.000 So it's way back in med school.

01:55:25.000 So they don't really, it was something they just kind of stored away and they don't think about it anymore.

01:55:29.000 But now when they have to teach somebody how to do something and they see the right movement, they gotta, how do I keep that person in that movement?

01:55:38.000 You've got to know how to translate this.

01:55:40.000 And it comes, you know, guides use it especially, right?

01:55:44.000 Hunting guides.

01:55:44.000 You've seen guides that are like, shoot, shoot, shoot!

01:55:47.000 And their clients are like, oh my god, paw!

01:55:51.000 You know, they just spent $50,000 on a doll sheep hunt and the guide's yelling at them to shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot now, hurry up, right? 0.68

01:55:58.000 What's the client's mind going to do?

01:56:01.000 They're going to go open loop like crazy.

01:56:03.000 I mean, guides deal with a way over 50% miss rate in any field that they do.

01:56:09.000 So I do a guide school where I teach guides how do you transfer this to a client instantly, right?

01:56:15.000 When they're losing their mind, how do you get their consciousness into the trigger press?

01:56:19.000 Because that's where it needs to be.

01:56:21.000 So it's just amazing how to do this stuff.

01:56:25.000 It is amazing and I really feel like this could be expanded.

01:56:29.000 Sure.

01:56:29.000 That you could expand this to many different things and that you could come in and explain, almost through archery, you could explain this to people and they could apply it to other things in their life.

01:56:40.000 Because I find myself using it in other things where I'm in high pressure situations where I just talk myself through it.

01:56:47.000 And I stay in my words and in my conscious mind and it makes a big difference.

01:56:53.000 Yeah.

01:56:54.000 Yeah, there's lots of expansion to do, and we're working on that right now.

01:56:58.000 Why do you shoot a longbow?

01:57:01.000 Because to me, when we practiced, I was like, what the F are you doing?

01:57:04.000 You've abandoned technology in favor of this primitive device.

01:57:09.000 Yeah, so basically concentration practice.

01:57:12.000 It's so much harder to shoot a stickbow.

01:57:16.000 Like, I have at my disposal, you know, lots of people send bow-de-bows, right?

01:57:21.000 So I have a garage full of compounds.

01:57:24.000 I shot my last critter with a compound in, I think, 2009. Actually, no, that's a lie.

01:57:30.000 I shot a critter with a compound this past season just for—it was a particular type of bow that I wanted to shoot a deer with.

01:57:38.000 But compounds in general, I shoot so much that they don't give me the challenge that I'm looking for.

01:57:47.000 As far as, you know, shooting, competing, I love to watch my arrow fly.

01:57:53.000 It is mystical to me, like Ted Nugent, right?

01:57:56.000 The mystical fly of the arrow, that's been real for me since I was seven years old.

01:57:59.000 So for me to control a shot with a longbow is the ultimate for me.

01:58:07.000 And like I said, I mean, I do lots of elk calling.

01:58:10.000 I call them in close.

01:58:11.000 It's a very effective weapon in my hands.

01:58:14.000 But a lot of people pick it up for the wrong reasons.

01:58:18.000 They pick it up because they want the simplicity, they want the tradition, they want all that stuff, but then they lose any skill level that they have in their shot.

01:58:26.000 And it's, you know, I originally started shooting barebow years and years ago with no sights because I could never put a pin on the target.

01:58:35.000 Were you shooting a compound bow instinctively?

01:58:37.000 Yeah.

01:58:38.000 Yeah, I know Nugent shot like that for a long time.

01:58:40.000 And that's where I got it from.

01:58:41.000 I watched his Spirit of the Wild VHS tape when I'm like 10 years old.

01:58:45.000 I'm like, I want to be like Ted Nugent.

01:58:47.000 So I started shooting a compound bare bow, and I couldn't put my sight on it anyways.

01:58:52.000 You know, my mom bought me a Martin Lynx Magnum.

01:58:55.000 I had sight pins on it, and I'm like, I can't even, you know, like...

01:58:59.000 I couldn't even get these.

01:59:01.000 Oh, it was a nightmare. 0.94

01:59:02.000 Shooting with your fingers, you know, your brain's connected to your release.

01:59:05.000 So it's just the ultimate challenge for me to shoot these longbows.

01:59:09.000 And I've harvested lots of critters now, and I'm constantly using them for concentration practice.

01:59:16.000 I just love shooting stick bows, man.

01:59:18.000 It's so cool.

01:59:19.000 No, the people that do it, the people that shoot recurves and traditional longbows, they say that there's nothing like it.

01:59:27.000 They say that once you develop accuracy with that, that it's like...

01:59:32.000 Like Aaron Schneider, who's an amazing shot.

01:59:34.000 He shot for a few years.

01:59:36.000 He only shot with a recurve bow because he wanted to show everybody that he could be just as effective as hunters are with compound bows and high-tech equipment.

01:59:48.000 Yeah.

01:59:48.000 That he could do it with old school.

01:59:50.000 It's a lot harder because, I mean, imagine those bulls coming in.

01:59:53.000 You can't draw and hold it.

01:59:55.000 Right.

01:59:55.000 Right?

01:59:56.000 So your timing of your draw is much more...

01:59:59.000 How long can you hold your bow back?

02:00:01.000 I can hold for about 30 seconds and shoot a controlled shot. 0.97

02:00:06.000 But I'm shaking like a dog, crapping tax.

02:00:08.000 What people need to understand is that a compound bow is very difficult to pull back in the beginning, but the nature of the cam system and the mechanics involved in it, it has a very high let-off.

02:00:21.000 So a lot of bows have like an 80% let-off, which means, for the people just listening, it's 80% less hard to hold it than it is to pull it.

02:00:31.000 So when you're at full draw, I can hold a full draw for a minute and a half, two minutes, and stay there.

02:00:37.000 As long as I'm not completely trying to be absolutely steady and aiming, I can hold a full draw and just relax my arm and then lift it up and then go through my shot process and I'm not compromised.

02:00:49.000 But you can't do that with a free curve.

02:00:51.000 It just gets harder and harder.

02:00:53.000 So your body mechanics come into play and a holding position and all that stuff.

02:01:00.000 You know, there's this purity of traditional archery where people, like, they don't want to shoot with a mechanoreceptive trigger.

02:01:07.000 Like, they don't want to shoot with a clicker.

02:01:08.000 They don't want to shoot with...

02:01:09.000 I've come up with all kinds of stuff.

02:01:11.000 Tab sear, grip sear, internal triggers, feather to nose, all this stuff that's all in the online course.

02:01:17.000 But...

02:01:18.000 People don't want to shoot it because they don't think it's pure, right?

02:01:21.000 But they're really chasing the ghost.

02:01:24.000 Like I've come up with some new triggerless ways to shoot triggerless that are really cool where we incorporate like a safety system, but it's very difficult to shoot a stick bow just by allowing your subconscious to tell itself when to let go.

02:01:39.000 You are constantly dealing with pre-ignition movements.

02:01:42.000 Yeah, that's what I don't understand, because I would think that with you, when you want this surprise shot, when you're shooting traditionally, and I know you were using a thumb ring for a while, like the Mongols do. 1.00

02:01:55.000 There's something to that, too, right?

02:01:56.000 Where it, like, passes over it?

02:01:58.000 No.

02:01:59.000 How does that work?

02:02:00.000 I mean, you're just basically holding on to that thing.

02:02:02.000 You've got the ring that covers the pad of your thumb, and your index finger goes over the top of it.

02:02:06.000 But you have to release that as well.

02:02:08.000 You have to release it.

02:02:08.000 So we use mechanoreceptive triggers like a grip sear.

02:02:12.000 So a grip sear would be like you put your fingernail on the edge of the riser.

02:02:18.000 So you draw back an aim, and then you start pressing that like you would roll your release.

02:02:24.000 You just start pressing that.

02:02:25.000 When that pops off of there, pops off the edge of your riser, the mechanoreceptors send the signal to your brain.

02:02:31.000 Your brain sends the release motor program.

02:02:32.000 So it's like pop, boop, off it goes.

02:02:34.000 Then your surprise break happens.

02:02:36.000 But you're still releasing it consciously.

02:02:39.000 No.

02:02:40.000 No.

02:02:40.000 Your subconscious, it just sends that motor program, which is open loop, but it can't get in the middle of that.

02:02:46.000 It's too fast.

02:02:48.000 When that pops, this thing releases to the point where the subconscious can't get in the middle.

02:02:54.000 Why did the Mongols choose to shoot bows that way?

02:02:59.000 So it was all based on mounted archery.

02:03:01.000 So when you shoot, I mean, their arrow's on the other side of the bow.

02:03:05.000 So when you're riding your horse with no hands, right, you've got your bow in one hand, you've got your arrow in the other, and those come together.

02:03:12.000 They didn't go over the bow.

02:03:14.000 They brought them together and then they grab onto the arrow.

02:03:16.000 So their arrow was on the right side of the bow, even if they were right-handed?

02:03:20.000 Yeah, so they're right-handed.

02:03:22.000 Arrow comes in this way, so then they grab onto the arrow.

02:03:25.000 Remember, they're riding their horse, right?

02:03:27.000 So they're bouncing up and down, and then they grab onto it, and they push the arrow forward, and they knock it, and they put their thumb around it, and it's the pressure.

02:03:35.000 Of their finger against the knock that holds it against the bow.

02:03:39.000 So if they're shooting right-handed, is their arrow on the right side of the bow?

02:03:42.000 Yes.

02:03:43.000 So it's not on the left side of the bow like a compound bow?

02:03:45.000 It's on the right side of the bow.

02:03:46.000 Interesting.

02:03:47.000 And it's the pressure of your finger that holds it against there so that when they're riding, they shoot.

02:03:52.000 But why can't you do that with, like, nutritional finger tabs?

02:03:57.000 Because when you grab on with your fingers, it's...

02:04:02.000 You're not able to push it and not put enough pressure on it to hold it in there.

02:04:06.000 And it has to do with arrow paradox and it's all kinds of weird stuff.

02:04:10.000 So when you'll see a horse-mounted archer, when they shoot, they'll actually flip their bow because those bows aren't cut to center.

02:04:17.000 So the arrow's pointed way to the right.

02:04:20.000 Like a right-handed shooter, their arrow is pointed way to the right, because that bow, if you notice, it's not narrowed at all.

02:04:26.000 Or it's very narrow, I mean, just a little bit.

02:04:28.000 Right, so the width of the bow forces the arrow off the side.

02:04:31.000 So that arrow is pointed way out to the right, so you have to actually flip it so that the string comes behind the arrow so it shoots straight where you're looking.

02:04:39.000 It's called katra.

02:04:40.000 Oh, wow.

02:04:41.000 So there's, I mean, it's so cool how they did that stuff.

02:04:45.000 They are so much smarter than we are now.

02:04:48.000 Well, I mean, it was out of necessity, right?

02:04:51.000 Because they're using them for war and for hunting.

02:04:54.000 But the thumb thing, had other people figured that out?

02:04:59.000 Well, it was mostly in the Asian cultures, because it was mounted archery.

02:05:04.000 The Japanese have kudo archery, and that's what we know now is basically on the ground, a martial art type of archery.

02:05:11.000 But it was originally, I mean, the yumi bow has got a short bottom limb so that it could maneuver over the horse.

02:05:16.000 Oh.

02:05:17.000 So all that stuff was all war-driven.

02:05:19.000 And with your thumb, you can draw it back so much farther.

02:05:24.000 I mean, you've got short little people that are with a 34-inch draw length.

02:05:28.000 Right.

02:05:29.000 Because you have extra inches with your thumb.

02:05:31.000 Right.

02:05:31.000 I mean, when I shoot my thumb, my draw length is 2 1⁄2 inches longer than with my fingers.

02:05:36.000 Oh.

02:05:36.000 So I can get into way better alignment.

02:05:39.000 Oh.

02:05:40.000 Yeah, it's really cool stuff.

02:05:42.000 And then the Mongols figured out a way they made, was it out of bone, the thumb ring that they had? 0.94

02:05:48.000 Ivory, jade, they made it out of brass, whatever they had.

02:05:52.000 So you can find, Jamie, so you can find Mongol archery thumb rings.

02:05:57.000 Because...

02:05:58.000 There's a different one than that.

02:05:59.000 Oh, look at that guy.

02:06:00.000 Yeah, you see how his bow is tilted that way?

02:06:02.000 Yes.

02:06:03.000 So that, he has produced katra with that.

02:06:05.000 So this man is shooting as he's...

02:06:08.000 See his bow flip like that?

02:06:10.000 As he's riding a horse.

02:06:12.000 Now, the Comanche were particularly adept at shooting while on horseback as well. 0.97

02:06:18.000 Did they use a similar method?

02:06:20.000 They have.

02:06:21.000 There's been so many different holds on a string, and it was all based on basically wartime, and did they have to shoot off a horse or not?

02:06:28.000 There was pinch draws.

02:06:30.000 There was different ways of holding a bow upside down.

02:06:32.000 There was I don't know specifically what the Comanches did, but all kinds of different ways of holding the string, and it was all based on necessity, or the length of the bow, you know, particular length of the bow, so it could be over a horse, shoot it mounted, shoot it, you know, like what we do now, we have blinds that are too short for stick bows,

02:06:51.000 so we shoot shorter recurves, you know?

02:06:54.000 So it's always fashioned to what the game is.

02:06:58.000 The Mongols would shoot while the horse was in the air. 0.98

02:07:01.000 They would time the shot so that as the horse was leaping in the air, there was less impact.

02:07:07.000 So that's when they would...

02:07:09.000 That's when they would release the bow.

02:07:13.000 It's all a feeling that comes up and you feel that impact and it becomes a timing thing.

02:07:18.000 Your subconscious can put so many things together, but when you take that style of archery and you put it into precision, it's pretty difficult.

02:07:30.000 Do you find Mongol thumb ring?

02:07:33.000 It's a very interesting thing when you see what it looks like.

02:07:36.000 It's a thing that sits on your thumb that almost looks like the bottom of a spoon.

02:07:41.000 Yeah, so that's a leather one.

02:07:45.000 If you have custom thumb rings, there's another one.

02:07:48.000 Yeah, so there's one, that bone one right there that you see there on the right-hand side.

02:07:52.000 So that's what it looks like.

02:07:53.000 Yep.

02:07:54.000 So that sits on that ledge, which makes it illegal for competition.

02:08:00.000 What's illegal in competition?

02:08:01.000 You can't shoot rings in competition.

02:08:03.000 Why is that?

02:08:03.000 Because they considered a release aid.

02:08:06.000 Because they've never shot one.

02:08:07.000 They don't know how difficult it is, really.

02:08:09.000 Interesting.

02:08:09.000 So that hooks onto that ledge, and you can hold so much weight because the weight...

02:08:15.000 I mean, some of these guys are shooting like 110-pound horse bows, and that's a leather one there.

02:08:22.000 Are you allowed to use a leather one?

02:08:24.000 Yeah, so you can shoot a leather one, but you can't use one of those bone ones.

02:08:27.000 Yeah, you can't use a bone one.

02:08:28.000 Because of that little ledge where the string sits.

02:08:31.000 Yep.

02:08:32.000 Interesting.

02:08:33.000 Yeah, it's pretty cool.

02:08:34.000 Yeah, and so you said it's all Asian cultures that have figured that out?

02:08:39.000 Mostly, yeah, mostly.

02:08:39.000 And they're all different types.

02:08:41.000 Like every culture had a different, like the Ottomans had a certain one.

02:08:46.000 They had a thumb ring as well?

02:08:47.000 Yeah, the Ottomans, the Turks. 0.55

02:08:49.000 I mean, it's all different types.

02:08:53.000 Gosh, there's all kinds of them.

02:08:54.000 Do we know the history of the thumb release?

02:08:56.000 Do we know, like, when that started?

02:08:58.000 I mean, they found it in tombs.

02:09:01.000 Wow.

02:09:01.000 It's old.

02:09:03.000 I mean, it's how archery started, as far as I know.

02:09:06.000 So, I just, I love shooting that way.

02:09:09.000 It's really the sight picture that you get when your arrow's on the other side of the bow, and when you have a modern bow that's cut to center, you don't have to do the katra thing. 0.86

02:09:17.000 So when I draw back, like, so when I hunt with my thumb, I don't have to judge range because I'm looking at the arrow from the side, right?

02:09:25.000 Like, my eye is not 12 o'clock on the arrow.

02:09:27.000 It's at 10 o'clock.

02:09:28.000 So I pull it back to where the arrow is...

02:09:31.000 Off to the side slightly.

02:09:33.000 So you're looking right down the arrow shaft.

02:09:35.000 So I'm looking down like at 10 o'clock.

02:09:36.000 My eyes like at 10 o'clock on the shaft.

02:09:38.000 So I can see the ramp from the side so I can see the pitch.

02:09:41.000 And because the bow is cut past center, I can still put the point directly underneath the target.

02:09:46.000 It's like a triangulation type aim.

02:09:48.000 It's really cool, man.

02:09:49.000 And are you thinking about it the same way you think about throwing a rock or a baseball?

02:09:55.000 If you throw a baseball, you kind of know how...

02:09:59.000 What the arc of the ball is going to be if you throw a lot of baseball.

02:10:02.000 So you can kind of like throw it into that very specific spot.

02:10:06.000 Right, but you're setting it.

02:10:07.000 I mean, you're literally setting it on the trajectory path.

02:10:10.000 And you've seen it thousands of times.

02:10:11.000 So you can draw back and you're like, that's going to do it right there.

02:10:15.000 And they just drop in.

02:10:17.000 It's so cool.

02:10:17.000 It's got to be something that you must practice more than a compound bow then, right?

02:10:22.000 To get that feel of it?

02:10:24.000 Yeah, your mind picks up the trajectory path very quickly.

02:10:26.000 And then the control is the same, right?

02:10:29.000 You have to talk yourself through specific moments, but the anxiety is higher because your body is under more tension.

02:10:36.000 Yeah, it's the ultimate in concentration practice as far as I know.

02:10:40.000 Well, a lot of people use it as a method of meditation.

02:10:45.000 It is a martial art, but for a lot of people, there's something about, and I think this with a compound bow as well, there's something about The concentration that's required to shoot a great shot that clears your mind of everything else.

02:11:01.000 It's almost like a cleaning.

02:11:04.000 Like a cleaning of the subconscious and all the stuff that's bothering you.

02:11:09.000 Like you get out there, it frees your mind.

02:11:11.000 Yeah.

02:11:11.000 If you don't free your mind, then you're going to go open loop.

02:11:15.000 So you're practicing clearing the slate every time.

02:11:19.000 Every time that you knock another arrow, it's a whole other thing.

02:11:25.000 You've got to make the same decisions.

02:11:26.000 You've got to do the same concentration.

02:11:28.000 All that stuff.

02:11:31.000 It's a fascinating thing, isn't it?

02:11:33.000 It's such a fascinating thing where you take difficult tasks and use them as a vehicle for developing your concentration, your potential at other things.

02:11:46.000 Mm-hmm.

02:11:47.000 I mean, it's the same thing we do with cold plunging, right?

02:11:49.000 I mean, but you don't have to make, you know, when you do your cold plunge, get out of that and shoot an arrow.

02:11:56.000 Yeah.

02:11:57.000 Right?

02:11:57.000 Like instantly.

02:11:58.000 And then that's when, I mean, you're constantly bringing your mind back.

02:12:03.000 You're shooting on one foot.

02:12:04.000 You're shooting on balance balls.

02:12:05.000 So you get practice in bringing your mind back where it needs to be.

02:12:09.000 And a lot of people don't do that. 0.86

02:12:11.000 They just shoot and shoot and shoot.

02:12:13.000 And one of the things that bothers me is, you know, there's celebrities out there that will take instruction from somebody, and I watch them shoot, and they punch the trigger their first time they're doing it.

02:12:25.000 I'm like, oh, God.

02:12:27.000 So when someone's teaching someone how to shoot a bow, yeah, they always punch the trigger.

02:12:31.000 And they punch the trigger and they hit the balloon.

02:12:32.000 Yeah, and they hit the balloon or whatever.

02:12:35.000 Like, ah, that was awesome that you did that and that you got into archery and that you're understanding some of these things.

02:12:40.000 But, man.

02:12:40.000 You're on a bad path.

02:12:41.000 You're on a bad path, man.

02:12:45.000 But the thing is, it's very difficult for those people, if you have an elite bow hunter, to explain that to this beginner they're giving a bow to.

02:12:55.000 They just want them to feel good about hitting the target.

02:12:58.000 And that's all good.

02:12:59.000 That's all good stuff.

02:13:00.000 I analyze everybody's shots.

02:13:02.000 I'm like, oh, gosh!

02:13:04.000 Right, I know.

02:13:05.000 It's just this thing where you know that this is going to lead down a very particular path that you've been and I've been and so many other people have been.

02:13:14.000 You don't know what you're getting into here, you know?

02:13:17.000 I know guys that are, you know...

02:13:21.000 Sort of aspiring bow hunters.

02:13:23.000 And I see them practice.

02:13:25.000 And I watch them on Instagram.

02:13:27.000 And I watch them practice.

02:13:29.000 They're practicing their own failure. 1.00

02:13:31.000 Fucking hammering it, buddy. 1.00

02:13:33.000 And you're shooting 20 yards away. 1.00

02:13:35.000 So you're getting into a reasonable range of success.

02:13:38.000 And I'm like, look at my group.

02:13:40.000 I'm like, good job.

02:13:42.000 Yeah.

02:13:43.000 Good job, but we've got to talk.

02:13:44.000 I don't want to dissuade people from that.

02:13:46.000 Right, but we've got to talk.

02:13:48.000 Do you think that someone can be a trigger puncher, meaning command that trigger, but do so along with these principles where you're like drawing back and aiming, setting it in,

02:14:04.000 and just pull, pull, pull, pull, pull with your finger and have it go off?

02:14:09.000 Yeah, but you wouldn't be punching it.

02:14:11.000 You wouldn't be punching it.

02:14:12.000 So if you can work an archery release, index finger trigger, like you would a fine rifle trigger, then more power to you.

02:14:20.000 It takes massive mental fortitude to do that.

02:14:23.000 So we usually start people with the pulling where you hook in and then you pull your hand through the strap.

02:14:28.000 And then once they gain control of that and they blueprint it, then we move them on to what we call the power squeeze, which is you link a couple of motor programs.

02:14:36.000 So you actually, you're increasing expansion and you're moving your finger.

02:14:40.000 And one gives the other guidance.

02:14:43.000 And you're guiding them both through words or sounds.

02:14:46.000 And that's more accurate.

02:14:48.000 Because the main thing with release aids that people need to realize is...

02:14:52.000 No matter what the movement is, it's got to be closed loop, and it can't move the head of the release.

02:14:58.000 Like if you are, like let's say you're shooting your hinge and you're pulling on it, but you're not actually rotating it.

02:15:05.000 You may be pulling but not rotating, so you're just increasing pressure in the bow.

02:15:09.000 That arrow's not going in the X. Right.

02:15:11.000 Right?

02:15:12.000 So you have to be able to link those things up and know what the movement actually is that you need to do.

02:15:19.000 So...

02:15:20.000 Lee Lukoski, he has a Carter Target 4 and he loops his hand around the trigger and he makes a fist.

02:15:29.000 That's how he does it.

02:15:31.000 So instead of pulling the trigger or punching the trigger, he just squeezes his fist and he knows it's going to go off eventually.

02:15:37.000 That's an easy movement to evaluate, right?

02:15:39.000 Like I said, I don't care what the movement is as long as it's closed loop and it doesn't move the head of the release.

02:15:44.000 That's why we don't pull on hinges usually.

02:15:46.000 We roll it with our fingers.

02:15:48.000 That seems to be more accurate.

02:15:49.000 With thumb buttons, there's all kinds of different movements you can do on a thumb button.

02:15:52.000 As long as it's closed loop, then pick the one you can evaluate the best.

02:15:57.000 Do you find that you get a lot of resistance to this?

02:16:02.000 Do you find that people are upset at some of the things you're teaching, like people that are very successful?

02:16:06.000 Have you found any of that?

02:16:07.000 No.

02:16:07.000 Not so much, because when I explain it to them, they're like, because I'm talking about exactly what they do, and I know what's going through their head.

02:16:16.000 And if they are, I know where their success is.

02:16:20.000 Is it very high level, like there's no question that you're going to do it, or is there still some mystery in your shot?

02:16:27.000 And it's easy for me to explain because of where I've come from.

02:16:31.000 I've been in the trenches, right?

02:16:33.000 I was not good at this stuff.

02:16:35.000 I don't think there are any natural-born shooters.

02:16:38.000 I think there are natural-born decision-makers.

02:16:41.000 And that's where you get these determined people that make decisions, and they can be successful in whatever their field is, especially if it's shooting or whatever.

02:16:52.000 If you don't have enough determination, and that's where young people fall off because they don't, I mean, they haven't seen the adversity, right?

02:17:00.000 They don't have the perspective.

02:17:01.000 They don't have the determination to actually override their own central nervous system.

02:17:06.000 So you see lots of little kids that start out punching the trigger and their parents don't know what to do with them and the kids just get frustrated and then they leave, right?

02:17:15.000 And archery just lost another one.

02:17:17.000 Yeah.

02:17:18.000 Whereas if you get them in control, then archery becomes this really cool thing that you can do and you can be really good at, right?

02:17:27.000 Maybe you're not good at other sports, but you can damn sure be good at archery if you know how to control your mind.

02:17:33.000 Yeah, it doesn't require a lot of athleticism.

02:17:35.000 No.

02:17:35.000 It just requires very specific movements that almost anybody can get their body to do.

02:17:40.000 Right.

02:17:41.000 I think it's such a valuable tool for life.

02:17:44.000 I really do.

02:17:46.000 I think archery in general, but concentrating on a specific thing that's difficult to do is so valuable for life.

02:17:56.000 Because if you can do that, it makes other things that seemed to be difficult before you encounter the extreme difficulty of archery, makes them seem easier.

02:18:06.000 I think that's the key to life, is to do difficult things.

02:18:09.000 Because if you do really difficult things, it makes other things less difficult.

02:18:14.000 Now you see it on the internet everywhere, right?

02:18:17.000 It's becoming an industry.

02:18:19.000 Motivation is becoming an industry. 0.98

02:18:21.000 Yeah, it's a problem because a lot of these people are motivating people who haven't done jack shit. 0.99

02:18:25.000 That drives me nuts. 0.95

02:18:26.000 When I see these people, I'm like, what have you done?

02:18:28.000 I want to see you under pressure. 0.99

02:18:30.000 Show me what you've done when your fucking back is against the wall. 0.99

02:18:34.000 Don't just tell people what they can do. 1.00

02:18:36.000 I want to know what have you...

02:18:37.000 If I hear motivation from David Goggins, I'm like, okay, I'm listening.

02:18:41.000 He's done it.

02:18:42.000 I hear motivation from Cam Haynes.

02:18:44.000 That's a guy who's talking from experience.

02:18:46.000 That's what I want to hear.

02:18:48.000 The problem with motivation is that there's a desire to be motivated.

02:18:53.000 So there's people that want to meet that desire, and some of them are just unqualified.

02:18:57.000 And it's like bad martial arts instruction.

02:18:59.000 There's a lot of it out there.

02:19:01.000 Because people want to learn how to fight, and someone's like, oh, I know what I'll do.

02:19:04.000 I'll teach people how to do martial arts. 0.99

02:19:05.000 But they don't even know what the fuck they're doing. 0.98

02:19:07.000 So you see fake martial arts techniques. 0.97

02:19:09.000 You have to research your instructors.

02:19:11.000 Yes.

02:19:12.000 I mean, if they haven't been there and done that, And if they haven't blueprinted it, then it's a problem.

02:19:20.000 Yeah.

02:19:20.000 How long did it take you to blueprint the ShotIQ system?

02:19:23.000 Because it's a very comprehensive system.

02:19:26.000 For people that don't know, if you go to Joel's website, ShotIQ.com, there's a whole series of Things that you have to go through and steps.

02:19:37.000 And I'm going to be honest, I didn't go through most of them.

02:19:39.000 I went through some of them and I kind of got the gist of it.

02:19:42.000 But then talking to you when you made me do the handwriting thing, I'm like, okay, now I understand what he's saying.

02:19:48.000 You have to be very specific about each individual fine motor skill that's involved in this.

02:19:56.000 And I'm like, okay, I get it.

02:19:58.000 Yeah.

02:19:58.000 I mean, it took me a lifetime.

02:20:00.000 On December 14, 2014 is when I realized the decisions that were made to make those two shots successful and conscious.

02:20:10.000 And right after that, I'm like, okay, how do I blueprint this?

02:20:14.000 What decisions do I need to make?

02:20:16.000 When do I need to make them?

02:20:18.000 And how do I carry them out?

02:20:19.000 How did you go about mapping it out and writing this program?

02:20:22.000 Because your program is so comprehensive.

02:20:24.000 It seems like there was a lot of refining involved in this.

02:20:28.000 It basically, I mean, I shot those, it all comes back to those two shots because I'm like, okay, I said this at this moment, I said this at this moment, and I said this at this moment.

02:20:40.000 And that was the mapping of the decisions.

02:20:43.000 And then once you do that, then you just, how do you put this, you know, where do you need to put the concentration?

02:20:48.000 You need to put it in shot activation movement.

02:20:51.000 How do you put it there?

02:20:53.000 By talking, right, or making a sound.

02:20:55.000 Could you stop it?

02:20:57.000 That's the test, right?

02:20:58.000 You're not truly in closed loop if you couldn't stop it in the middle of it.

02:21:01.000 And then what decision did I make?

02:21:03.000 And those four questions basically encompass the blueprint.

02:21:07.000 If you can answer those four questions, you know exactly how you did it.

02:21:12.000 Then and only then can you repeat it.

02:21:15.000 And I put it in this analogy of the shock control house.

02:21:20.000 So if you are about to shoot a shot and you know what this moment feels like, you're like, oh my god, this is going to happen, right?

02:21:28.000 That bull's coming in and it just turns broadside or you're standing on the line in Vegas like, okay, this is it.

02:21:34.000 You are now on the porch of the shot control house, but you don't get inside because the door's closed.

02:21:40.000 Your shot process lives inside the house.

02:21:43.000 And so there you are on the porch.

02:21:45.000 How do I get the door open?

02:21:47.000 You got to decide, right?

02:21:48.000 Decisions open doors in the shot control house.

02:21:51.000 So I say to myself, I'm shooting this shot with control no matter what.

02:21:55.000 Because it used to be, I'm going to shoot this shot perfectly or not at all.

02:21:58.000 But that was a bailout.

02:21:59.000 Remember the letdown thing, right?

02:22:01.000 That was a bailout.

02:22:02.000 That gave me that option of letting down.

02:22:04.000 I don't say that anymore.

02:22:05.000 Now it's, I'm shooting this shot with control no matter what.

02:22:08.000 Because no matter what is a determined statement that we use in everyday speech, yeah? 0.51

02:22:13.000 So I'm shooting the shot with control no matter what.

02:22:16.000 Door opens, right?

02:22:17.000 And then you drawing your bow back is you stepping through the door.

02:22:20.000 The first room that you walk into is the aiming room.

02:22:23.000 And everybody wants to stay in there.

02:22:25.000 That's where all your buddies are, right?

02:22:27.000 Like, hey, Joe, what's up?

02:22:28.000 Stay in here with us, right?

02:22:29.000 There's all kinds of crates.

02:22:31.000 There's disco balls and all kinds of things going on in there.

02:22:34.000 And you're like, man, this is pretty cool.

02:22:36.000 I think I'll just have a seat on the couch.

02:22:38.000 And that's what most people do is they sit on the couch in there and they never get out of the aiming room.

02:22:42.000 So what I want people to do is get your aim done quickly.

02:22:44.000 Don't be bringing your pin up from the bottom or down from the top.

02:22:47.000 You shouldn't be able to tell me what position or what direction your pin comes from. 0.98

02:22:51.000 Just stick the damn thing on the target and then watch it to keep it. 0.98

02:22:55.000 So don't linger in the aiming room, right? 0.99

02:22:58.000 Don't look at the pictures on the wall.

02:22:59.000 Don't sit on the couch.

02:23:00.000 Don't talk to anybody in there.

02:23:01.000 Just put on the blinders and walk through the room.

02:23:04.000 Why watch it to keep it?

02:23:06.000 Because that's how visual proprioception works, right?

02:23:09.000 You watch the system and it will automatically center itself.

02:23:13.000 So you just watch the picture and it will stay in the middle.

02:23:16.000 Yes, it's going to move around, but whichever way it moves, its next movement is always back to the center, right?

02:23:22.000 So you don't need to talk to anybody in the aiming room.

02:23:24.000 That's going to happen, right?

02:23:25.000 Just walk through it.

02:23:27.000 So you, on a hinge release, you rolling to the click, right?

02:23:32.000 That is you closing the door.

02:23:34.000 In fact, that click that it makes is not the click on the release.

02:23:37.000 That's the click of you closing the door on the aiming room, right?

02:23:41.000 So now you're out of that room.

02:23:43.000 You don't have control of what happens in that room, but man, it sounded so fun in there, right?

02:23:48.000 So your mind wants to go back in there and check on it.

02:23:51.000 So you don't let it go back in there.

02:23:53.000 You lock that door with here I go, right?

02:23:56.000 But you're still looking at where you want to hit.

02:23:58.000 Sure.

02:23:58.000 Oh yeah, you keep watching the picture.

02:24:00.000 It's like you're looking in the aiming room, but you're not in the room anymore.

02:24:03.000 You're looking through the window, right?

02:24:06.000 You're keeping an eye on things in there, but you don't really have control of what goes on in that room anymore.

02:24:11.000 So you lock the door with here I go.

02:24:13.000 Here I go also opens the door on the concentration room, right? 0.92

02:24:17.000 But here's the problem.

02:24:19.000 The concentration room is on fire.

02:24:21.000 How much determination would it take for you to walk into a room that's on fire knowing that you're going to get burnt?

02:24:29.000 For most people it takes a loved one in that room.

02:24:32.000 Right?

02:24:33.000 The task is no different.

02:24:34.000 Walking into the room is no different.

02:24:36.000 The task itself is the same but your determination level is different.

02:24:42.000 You have a loved one in that room.

02:24:44.000 Now your determination to get in there and save that person is through the roof.

02:24:49.000 That's the determination that has to be manufactured for you to walk into the concentration room.

02:24:55.000 And when you walk in there, here's the other bad part about it.

02:24:58.000 You're getting burnt constantly.

02:24:59.000 When's this thing going to go off?

02:25:00.000 Oh my God, it's a 7x7.

02:25:02.000 I'm going to be a hero.

02:25:03.000 Cam Haynes is watching me.

02:25:05.000 You've got all these thoughts that are coming in and you can only walk through that room slow enough you could stop your step.

02:25:35.000 Mm-hmm.

02:25:36.000 So there you are, and you're working through that, getting burnt the whole time, but you're the loudest one in the room, and pop!

02:25:42.000 It breaks!

02:25:43.000 That's you jumping out the back door of the house, right?

02:25:45.000 When you knock another arrow, you've got to walk around to the front yard, and you've got to step up on the porch again.

02:25:52.000 Right?

02:25:52.000 All the doors close in the house.

02:25:55.000 So you've got to make the same decisions to get through the door.

02:25:58.000 But what I want for people is I want them to kick everybody out of the aiming room.

02:26:02.000 Right?

02:26:03.000 Because the more you do it, the more that you just put your pin on it, done with it.

02:26:08.000 The more you do that, the more you walk through that aiming room, the less and less people there are, right?

02:26:12.000 And then all the pictures come off the wall, all the furniture's gone, right?

02:26:16.000 It becomes a blank room.

02:26:17.000 You still have to walk through it, but there's no distractions in there anymore, right?

02:26:21.000 And then ultimately what I want you to do is I want you to blow the door off, the front door. 0.99

02:26:26.000 I want you to put an explosive charge on that sucker and turn it into splinters. 0.99

02:26:30.000 Because when I shoot in front of you, I don't have to go, okay, I'm going to shoot this shot with control no matter what. 1.00

02:26:35.000 Because that's a principle by which I live, right?

02:26:38.000 I don't have a front door on my shot control house.

02:26:40.000 I step right up on the porch and I walk right in.

02:26:43.000 That's where I want people to be.

02:26:45.000 There is no mystery to this house anymore.

02:26:46.000 And it's important to do this every time you practice.

02:26:49.000 Yeah.

02:26:50.000 It's not just something you do in the moment, like, oh, I've got to remember what the steps are.

02:26:55.000 You have to do this when you're practicing.

02:26:56.000 You practice making decisions.

02:26:59.000 You practice your concentration, right?

02:27:01.000 And you practice the true skills of precision shooting.

02:27:05.000 You don't just practice your shooting, you're practicing your concentration through shooting.

02:27:10.000 Well, I want to thank you for being here and I want to tell you that what you've done has been very, it's been very helpful to me and many, many other people and I really do believe that it translates to other things in life. 0.98

02:27:23.000 It's so important to understand what's going on in your mind and how your mind is trying to fuck you over.

02:27:32.000 Just years of evolution and just anxiety is all trying to fuck you over, but you can avert that and you can bypass it. 0.99

02:27:42.000 Yep, for sure. 0.98

02:27:43.000 Thank you very much, brother.

02:27:44.000 I really appreciate it.

02:27:45.000 ShotIQ.com is your website.

02:27:47.000 And what's your Instagram again?

02:27:50.000 It's JoelTurner underscore ShotIQ.

02:27:51.000 All right.

02:27:52.000 Thanks, brother.

02:27:53.000 Appreciate you, man.

02:27:54.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 17, 2023

Joe Rogan Experience #1943 - Joel Turner

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript