00:00:26.000It's, uh, you know, it's, I mean, you're a very talented comedian, so I shouldn't be surprised, but it's always surprising when someone does something outside of.
00:00:36.000Of comedy that they're really good at.
00:00:39.000I think you're rightfully surprised that, like, a filthy nightclub comic who's very good at selling chicken tenders, like, wrote a book that's kind of beautiful, you know?
00:00:52.000It's so much fun to take a thing we've all heard a million times and then, like, try and tell it, like, if it was actually happening in the real world.
00:00:59.000So I tried to, like, bring this down into the reality we all share.
00:01:14.000So, when you decide you're going to write a book and you decide you're going to write a novel, you wrote a novel about comedy before, but this is different.
00:02:32.000Do you sit down and let the thought come to you?
00:02:36.000Literally, I wanted, I had this idea about, um, A killer trying to kill someone, but his gun jams, and then him showing human signs of frustration.
00:02:46.000And I was like, I want to write that short story about what's that look like to a guy who's supposed to be the best in the world at his job, but it turns out he's just as capable as all the infinite human failures that we all are.
00:02:56.000So that was the 30 pages I had of this, and it was going to be a short story.
00:03:00.000And then, like I said, I was kind of incentivized by Random House to, you know, they're giving me the ball, do some damage.
00:03:07.000You know, it's like the cover's awesome.
00:03:10.000Yeah, it looks like a punk rock album that I would have bought when I was a kid.
00:03:14.000Like, it was, I don't want to say it was a commercial decision, but I definitely knew that this was the first time I was going to be on bookshelves, you know, with a hardcover release.
00:03:23.000And I wanted to write something that was an easily sellable bit of, you know, pulp fiction.
00:03:30.000I love all those books, but I wanted to, you know, hide a love story in there as well and, like, write about all the things that kind of, I wanted to explore nihilism and, like, all the existentialism that I like about.0.97
00:03:44.000Like French writers and the Japanese, like bleak people.0.93
00:03:48.000And this is kind of like my love letter to a lot of different, whether it's genre fiction, whether it's Paris, whether it's like my friends, you know?1.00
00:03:55.000Because like there is, the guy is gay, but like I think I know how to write about loving men a lot more than I do loving women because like I've loved a lot more men.0.99
00:04:04.000I've never fucked any man in the ass.1.00
00:04:06.000That'd be pretty sick if I could pull that off, but I'm like trapped by heterosexuality.1.00
00:04:12.000Like I would love to like spend a week at a bachelor party with the boys and have the most fun fraternity, paintball.
00:04:19.000Ultimate Frisbee, maybe if Jamie's there.
00:04:22.000But, and then at the end of it, wouldn't it be great to just lay down and, like, blow each other?
00:06:14.000So, upon the age, I think it's of six years old, young boys are taken away from their mothers and given to an older man who they call their anal father.0.93
00:06:27.000And the folklore of their tribe is that for a man to grow strong, they must consume sperm anally and orally.0.99
00:06:38.000They think they have a mouth in their butt?0.99
00:09:02.000And then they would eat, they would consume.
00:09:04.000He was talking about this one guy who was working with him who had to leave the project because he had to go back home and eat one of his relatives because they had died.
00:09:13.000So he had to be a part of this ritual.
00:10:22.000And boy, howdy, if it didn't lead me to.0.87
00:10:26.000The only time I've ever committed any kind of like big property theft is we were all fucked up on this red dragon and we walked by a construction site.
00:10:33.000My buddy Krusty was like, Hey, these lights go for like $800 a pop.
00:10:37.000And next thing I know, I'm just like carrying two huge like construction lights down the street.
00:10:42.000And the cops came and they like see like a giant man, you know, and I like put them down and they were like, What are you doing with those lights?
00:10:50.000And I was like, Oh, I thought we were supposed to set up for work here.
00:13:35.000It's like, look, I understand that you're like Jackson Pollocking and you've earned that right as like a master of the form, like as a writer.
00:13:44.000He wrote Queer, he wrote Junkie, he wrote other things that were easily digestible.0.99
00:13:47.000And now he's kind of letting his freak flag fly and like swinging his dick.0.98
00:13:50.000But like at the end of the day, as a reader, It's really hard to like enjoy a book that doesn't have any discernible story.0.99
00:13:58.000Like, I still like a plot, you know what I mean?
00:15:58.000But that's at a different stage of your life.
00:16:00.000The stage of your life where you're trying to get something going, trying to succeed, you're very vulnerable to spite, very vulnerable to envy.
00:16:24.000It's very sad to see people that you like fall prey to that or people that you have liked in the past who you see them lash out at people that are doing well.
00:16:36.000And you realize it's, it's, it's so, the map is so clear.
00:17:31.000Like, promo, you know, like, make the Instagram posts, like, you know, any of that shit that's, like, like, all the shit that my super successful friends are good at is shit that makes me want to, like, buy a bullet and rent a gun, you know?0.99
00:17:45.000Like, I want to, like, hang myself from a sturdy rope when I'm, like, oh, yeah, I got to get engagement.0.96
00:17:50.000I need to comment the first 30 minutes that the post is up so that more people will see it.
00:17:54.000It's like, I want to pay someone so much money to do all of this so I don't have to anymore.
00:17:59.000Well, you could, or you could just post that's where you're going to be and then just leave it alone.
00:18:05.000That's probably the best solution because your fans certainly want to know when you're going to be somewhere.
00:18:10.000It sucks if you find out that a comic that you love came to your town and you missed out because they didn't post about it.
00:20:27.000But I think to any of the people who go to that club and have been going to that club, if I were to say, I'm coming to my favorite club in the country, the Hartford Funny Bone, they'd be like, he's a fucking liar.1.00
00:22:55.000Yeah, but they made Italians way too cocky.1.00
00:22:58.000There's a lot of Italians that thought it was really cool just to be Italian because all these, like a lot of guys, they put it on you.1.00
00:23:03.000Hey, fucking, you gonna hang out with Johnny?0.99
00:24:02.000When I lived in New York, I very rarely did the city because I was a road comic in Boston.
00:24:08.000You know, like Boston, the way it works is if you're real clean or in the 80s, if you're real clean, you can work the Clubs in town, but if you're not clean, most of your work is going to be in the bars or outside.
00:24:53.000He was like one of the most brilliant, but yet was doing his kind of comedy to people that wouldn't necessarily go to see his type of comedy if they knew what it was.
00:25:32.000Because they want the two drinks in there and they don't care what you're up to or if the show's going to go well because they're going to make an extra $400 on Bud Light.
00:25:40.000Yeah, the problem with that I've always found is that I did a lot of those shows too, but the people aren't very invested in the show.
00:25:46.000So you get a lot of chatty folks, and they don't watch a clip.0.99
00:25:49.000So, when you say a word that they don't like, they're like, What the fuck is this?0.97
00:25:52.000And it's like, You couldn't watch me do one minute before you decided to drive down here and get parking.0.99
00:26:08.000See, I think that's one of the issues with comedy, and I talk about this a lot, is that comedy has one genre.0.98
00:26:14.000Whereas music, you know, if you're going to a music club and you see hip hop and then Guns N' Roses, And then Joni Mitchell, you'd be like, what the fuck kind of club is this?0.99
00:26:25.000Whereas in comedy, you could see all sorts of different perspectives and styles.0.98
00:26:31.000You could see, you know, loud people, people who do music, people who do all kinds of weird shit on stage.
00:26:37.000Like comedy has no, I mean, it does have genres, you know, especially to people that like to classify things, they like to put things into categories and boxes.
00:26:48.000But the reality is, it's just perspectives, it's just comedies.
00:26:51.000Here's the world through my eyes, and everyone is different.
00:26:55.000And it's like, you don't know if you're going to go see Guns N' Roses or if you're going to go see Barry Manilow.
00:27:01.000You really don't know if you're just going to go see comedy.
00:27:03.000Like, let's go to Cap City and go to the comedy club and let's see who's there this weekend.0.96
00:27:24.000And then if you can get good at that when you first get your opportunity to like, if people are going to get free tickets because it's their birthday in three months and they just so happen to win them right now and they go see you, if you can trick half those people into coming back next time, like that was always my big thing.
00:27:40.000Like when I first started getting these big opportunities, like when Tim Dillon took me on the road, when I first got on this show or Kill Tony, people start coming out for the first time to see me.
00:27:50.000And I was not concerned with that first time.
00:28:53.000And also, now I get these kids who come out because I'll do like Hivemind or Gillis, like the people who get like young people in their demographics.
00:29:02.000So now I have like 22 year olds at the shows.
00:29:04.000And man, you can see on their faces, it's the first time they haven't been on their phone for 90 minutes in their entire life.
00:29:13.000And they're sitting there and they like don't know what to do.1.00
00:29:15.000And then I'll be like, hey, nice hat, stupid.1.00
00:32:13.000And the first comic who comes out is a bucket person, you know.
00:32:16.000Or no, I think I can't remember who went first, but the first bucket comes out.1.00
00:32:20.000And they say, So I rode the train in from Essex, and a packed O2 starts screaming, Fuck Essex, your dogs, everyone from Essex fucks their mother, back up north, you pikey.1.00
00:32:43.000There's an arena screaming at him, and then he has to stumble into his punchline, goes terribly, try to do the interview, and it's like, So, how long have you been doing it?
00:32:53.000And he's like, Looking around like he just came out of a coma, you know?
00:32:57.000And he's like, Oh, this is my first time ever doing stand up.
00:33:09.000So, you had a literal arena full of people who have taken the train or flown in from all over Europe for this.1.00
00:33:16.000And then, dude, like, so there was very, every time a comic would say, So, you know, I'm from Pakistan, every slur you've ever heard from Snuff comes out, you know, like, and me and Tony and Redman are up there, like, What the fuck is this?0.88
00:33:32.000Get to the joke, you know, okay, you know.
00:33:33.000So every time anyone says anything, people scream.
00:33:36.000There's fistfights going on, there's people screaming up constantly.
00:33:40.000And then, dude, this guy came out and said, So, I'm from Israel.
00:34:29.000And like, threw him a joke book, get him out of there.
00:34:32.000It devolved so bad by the end that, like, when we walked off, I, once the show ends, I went into the green room and literally like put my hands on the sink and stared into the mirror for like five minutes.
00:35:03.000And this was actually when me and Tony became like friends, friends, because I got to spend like three days with him and like his brother, like seeing him be a guy.
00:37:28.000We were in that coffee shop with Shane, and an old Asian man came over and was just like, in Chinese or whatever, Mandarin, was like, picture, picture.0.99
00:37:36.000And Shane looks at me and he's like, this guy doesn't speak English.1.00
00:38:32.000And even if they disagree with me, you know, once they have a few words with me, they realize I'm very reasonable.
00:38:37.000Well, it's like they've made you and like Shane and Tony into like very convenient targets because like, you know, pain leans to panic and panic leads to fear and fever leads to anger and anger leads to hate.
00:38:48.000So it's like you have been made this billboard.
00:39:08.000And he said, when drastic changes occur, it's much easier to say it's a crime and ask who did it as opposed to saying it's a failure and to ask what happened.
00:39:22.000So, I feel like they're trying to assign a lot of blame to people.
00:39:33.000So it's like, okay, we can all decide that this person who's replaced the media that we had is the enemy.
00:39:41.000And it's like, okay, well, the New York Times can write as many op eds on how you're the enemy of progress, but will they call it a genocide?
00:40:08.000I hope, but it's like I really would have loved to have been in the era of comedy where you like go on Conan and then you get to sell your tickets, you know.0.94
00:40:17.000But it's like, how is one guy who's independent, you know, I guess Spotify's money is involved or whatever, but they don't fucking censor you, right?
00:40:27.000So it's like one guy being independent and having conversations, how is that worse than like the facade of going on Kimmel or going on Fallon or going on Conan back in the day?
00:40:40.000And, like, yeah, like, these are like good guys who are silly, but ultimately they're on NBC, who's owned by whatever holding company, who's owned by one of the seven corporations who owns the world.
00:40:50.000And, like, their whole thing is selling ad space for, like, Nestle and fucking BlackRock or whatever subsidiary is, like, the one they put the face on.0.81
00:40:57.000Like, that was bad, but it was fine.0.70
00:41:00.000So now you're one guy who's having conversations, and they're like, this is bad.
00:41:13.000You know, always the most popular thing is bad, no matter what it is.
00:41:16.000If it's a film, if it's music, if it's a podcast, whatever it is, it's always bad.
00:41:22.000And, you know, you're always going to have that.
00:41:26.000It's just you're not going to fix people, you're not going to fix perspectives and give people clarity and give people the ability to make sort of rational, objective, charitable.
00:41:41.000Observations about who a person actually is.
00:41:44.000It's very easy to just caricaturize someone.
00:42:12.000But also, dude, it's weird because, like, I talk to people a lot.
00:42:15.000Who I don't share like the exact ideals with.0.81
00:42:18.000Like, I don't like that you fucking endorse Trump, but like, I have a lot of friends who voted for Trump.0.81
00:42:23.000And it's like a lot of people don't ever hang out with anyone else who thinks different because, first of all, we don't hang out face to face.0.98
00:43:12.000And I think a big factor is social media, echo chambers, propaganda, bots.
00:43:20.000Gaslighting, and then there's it seems like there's so much riding on everything constantly because you're looking at your phone all the time.
00:44:16.000Like, I've learned the different sections of my backyard that, like, get more sunlight and, like, get more water.
00:44:23.000And it's like, These were incredibly boring to me probably 10 years ago, but now in this world that's so empty and so like just devoid of anything palpable and real, like me being back there and watching my fucking dahlias grow is like just as valuable and nutritious to me as it's anything that was ever on my phone.
00:44:42.000And like, yeah, I'm not like learning or like, I'm not like, you know, thinking I'm learning and I'm not engaging with people and I'm not getting the reward of like people being like cool, nice garden because I'm not posting that shit.0.98
00:44:55.000Like, I had a pumpkin that grew like a.0.93
00:44:56.000Clitoris in the back of, like, dude, you seen this pumpkin?
00:47:52.000And if you don't think so, you probably haven't listened.0.96
00:47:55.000Like, if you didn't know who she was, if she didn't have Taylor Swift attached to her, and you're like, Nobody, No Crime is a fucking great song.0.96
00:48:05.000And if it was just some indie artist who just wrote that, some unknown lady who wrote that song and performed it, you'd be like, it's a really good song.
00:48:13.000I think it's just like a fun contrarian thing to be like, the popular thing is bad.
00:51:25.000I go, well, first of all, right now you're independent.
00:51:28.000Do you know how much money you would pay to be independent?
00:51:32.000Like, if you got connected to this and then all of a sudden you have a bunch of other people that you have to answer to and they're saying, hey, you know, we could sell more advertising if you stop talking about Israel.
00:51:41.000Or we could sell more advertising if you just stopped using this word or that word or bring up these subjects.
00:52:27.000It's missing their kids, like games and stuff.
00:52:30.000For me, it's like when I moved here, I was like, okay, if I'm going to take my kids and move them to another state, one of the things that I want to do is be around a lot more often.
00:52:51.000It wears you out and it doesn't seem as Fun.
00:52:54.000I do like going to places and I do like the fact that people want to come and I appreciate them very much.0.85
00:53:00.000But having a club, having my own club, has been the greatest fucking thing that I've ever done.0.72
00:53:05.000It's such a solid move because now you're grounded, you have a community, and you have this sick place you've built where you don't have to leave town.0.94
00:53:13.000And all your friends come to town now.
00:53:31.000Without COVID and without the draconian lockdowns that California was implementing and all the shit that they were doing and the fact that other states weren't and that Texas wasn't.
00:54:39.000And it's like, that's cool that now Little Weird Lucas, who I knew long ago, is now like been given enough reps in a legitimate place where now I can trust them to be like, yeah, come do two shows on my festival.
00:54:56.000One of the cool things about what's happened in Austin is because of the success of the mothership and then all these comics moving, you know, like 18 world class comics moved to Austin.
00:55:04.000And so, because of that, and then all these other new comics who wanted to have a career and saw that it's really difficult to get in New York, it's really difficult to get in in LA, and Austin is like this blossoming community.
00:55:17.000And so, they all moved here, and now there are seven clubs on one street, which is nuts.
00:55:21.000Within walking distance of the mothership, there are seven comedy clubs that at least a few nights a week have comedy.
00:55:28.000This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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00:56:39.000Like, if it was just the creek, yeah, that was here, like Austin would still be right on, yeah.
00:56:45.000But the fact that, like, you built like an actual circus, you know, and then we're like clowns, move here, like that benefited uh, every other you know, PT Barnum's character, yeah, yeah.
00:56:58.000Well, it also we set it up to develop comedy, like, you have the cornerstone of the club, which is Kill Tony, right?
00:57:05.000That's like very important because it gives people an opportunity, like, if you You're on the road, you're grinding it out, and you know, you're barely getting by, but you're kind of funny.
00:57:30.000And it creates a lot of work, too.0.99
00:57:32.000Like, that's what I care about is the fact that, like, you know, Tony has created so much opportunity for so many people who deserve it and some other people.
00:57:41.000But, you know, he has a pretty good hit ratio as far as who he decides to green light.
00:58:44.000You know, what was funny is like, you know, how Ari is like a shark, yeah.
00:58:47.000Like, Ari seems like he might be devoid of like human empathy sometimes because he's so driven and so Eastern European and he like comes from like blood that ate tubers, you know, and like war pelts, war, yeah, war.
00:58:59.000Like, his whole country is defined by war, yeah.0.81
00:59:03.000So, Ari is like, I was like, okay, Ari's going to go up and save the show.
01:00:46.000And that included, like, you know, Glasgow and a bunch of other, like, big cities.
01:00:51.000I think if you want to do it that way.
01:00:53.000But yeah, I think London has a bunch of great comics.
01:00:55.000So why didn't they have better bucket pulls?
01:00:57.000I think that a bunch of people saw that the American Spectacle was there and they decided that this was like, oh, I'm going to try stand up for the first time ever.
01:02:51.000I mean, it was kind of like that thing when they're like, hey, Ken Keezy, did you watch a Cuckoo's Nest movie?
01:02:57.000And he was like, well, if the Hells Angels said they were going to come gang rape your daughter on the front lawn, would you go out and watch it?
01:03:01.000I feel like that's probably how he feels about this because it was not within his control, like how bad it happened.
01:05:16.000Like anyone out there, try and get up on stage for 60 minutes and make a bunch of people who work at different places and think different ways, who are not used to being in a room being quiet, try and make them feel like they spent $35 and it wasn't wasted.
01:06:39.000But then there were also like important points that he felt like he had to get out that he did in the genre of stand up comedy that weren't necessarily funny.
01:06:48.000So he didn't have a proper outlet for these deeper thoughts, which is what I have with my books and stuff.
01:07:52.000If anyone goes to a comedy show and they're hoping for the comedian to signal that they have the same allegiances to the way that they think.
01:08:45.000My favorite Hicks is when he was young and silly.
01:08:47.000I think the problem with that one was, first of all, there was a lot of weight on him to be this cultural philosopher, this commentator, but also one show filming it.0.71
01:10:39.000When that camera's on, like ready, go, and you have to be loose, like Friday night second show or Saturday night second show, where it's like you're just having fun, you're in the zone and you're flowing.
01:15:27.000That can't be any more valuable than when people say, I hate the book, you suck as a writer.0.96
01:15:33.000You can't allow the strangers to give you good stuff and take nutrition from that good stuff if you're going to say, the people who don't like me are insane.
01:15:43.000You can't value either one of them because then you're trying to equivocate and you're making bad art.
01:15:49.000The expectation of the viewer was not involved in the production of art for a long time until very recently.
01:16:03.000And the people who write to you and say, like, you know, you're a sellout or whatever, like, they think they're smarter than the people who don't write to you, you know?
01:16:12.000And it's like the people who just watch the thing and say this was funny and then go back to their lives, those are the people who I want to value the opinion of.
01:16:20.000But I never talk to them because they're not insane.
01:17:36.000All of it steals from whatever creative energy, whatever life energy, observational energy that you have to apply to all aspects of your life.
01:17:46.000I always try to tell comics, I've said this before, I apologize if people have heard it.
01:17:50.000I try to say this to as many people as possible because I think it's an important way to phrase it and to structure it in your head.
01:18:00.000You have 100 units, 100 is a good number.
01:18:03.000If you're spending 30 units, Paying attention to people that hate you or paying attention to people that love you or paying attention to anything.
01:18:11.000You just stole 30 units from your 100.
01:18:15.000Now you only have 70 to apply to the things that you love.
01:18:18.000And there's 50 of those 70 are spent on your phone.
01:18:42.000But, like, so when I go out and do the meet and greet and I'm exhausted and I've already done my thing, it's like, how much can I give away of me until there's none of me left?0.99
01:18:55.000And then it's just like this shell that people come and look at and, like, they put the coin in the mouth and I say the funny thing and I'm, like, robotic at the meet and greet and all that shit.0.67
01:19:05.000I can't keep giving all this of me away and expect for that thing that I was to still remain.
01:19:11.000Well, then there's also the problem, like, There was an issue, especially in the 90s, where comics would do all this material about travel, about airplane travel.
01:19:28.000You have to do things other than the thing that you do just to have things to talk about.
01:19:34.000Just as a part of your job, have experiences and have a part of your life that has nothing to do with your travel.
01:19:44.000And if you're traveling constantly and doing stand up constantly, Your life experiences are hotel, dinner, hanging with your friends, show, And there's not enough coming in.
01:19:57.000There's too much coming out, and then you go dry.
01:19:59.000And then when you go dry, you start playing games in your head while you're on stage.
01:20:21.000And hopefully, now with writing, this got optioned, and I'm going to write the screenplay.
01:20:26.000But just the writing alone, just the experience of expanding your perceptions and expanding your thoughts and just your overall creative energy into something completely different is hugely beneficial.
01:21:50.000Well, that thing you said about how comics only wrote about airplane food.
01:21:54.000My issue with American literature, which still won't let me in.
01:21:58.000Despite this being an immediate national bestseller, no book coverage from your conventional, you know, the outlets that I read the Paris Review.
01:22:20.000But the American MFA situation, the Master in Fine Arts, all these, like, writing programs, all these kids go to these writing programs.
01:22:29.000And instead of like being 19 and smoking something that turns out isn't opium, you know, and getting their heart broken and, you know, living outside or being desperate, instead they go to these colleges that are like, you know, very expensive institutions that only allow certain types of people in.
01:22:48.000And they learn how to write books from people who also went to these institutions.
01:22:52.000And those books are then sent off to publishing houses that are housed by people who went to these institutions.
01:22:58.000And the books that come out are completely devoid of any kind of real human experience because these kids lived in these like ivory towers of knowledge and they haven't been out getting their teeth busted by reality.
01:23:10.000So every book that comes out is so fucking boring, but it has to be greenlit from the top because if this isn't good or valuable as literature, then the whole house of cards crumbles.
01:23:22.000Then why do you go to the MFA programs anymore?0.67
01:23:25.000The best literature now, the best fiction comes out of Japan, it comes out of France, it comes out of Japan.1.00
01:23:30.000Oh, dude, Japanese fiction is fucked.1.00
01:23:33.000There's all these books about like women who eat each other.1.00
01:23:43.000Dude, Japanese fiction is still publishing stuff that used to be okay to write about because it was weird and it was far out, but it's still fiction.0.87
01:23:52.000And now every fucking contemporary novel that comes out in America is about like someone who grew up rich and feels bad about it, you know?0.91
01:28:15.000No, dude, Rogue Mail's a book that was forgotten is M A I L or L E M A L E.
01:28:21.000It's about a guy who's trying to assassinate Hitler on Hitler's compound, but it's this dude who thinks he's like this big, gnarly hero, right?
01:28:31.000And he's like, I'm the one who's going to end the war, so he like.
01:28:34.000Gets into the back of Hitler's compound and it's just him in his head, like talking about how brave he is.
01:28:40.000I don't want to ruin the ending, but I think you'd love that book, dude.
01:28:46.000And Angels, if anyone out there is listening and they want to read a really good book, Angels by Dennis Johnson is about a bank robbery gone awry and it might be the most beautiful, ugly, bleak thing.
01:28:58.000Well, maybe with this obsession with social media and then people realizing that it's very bad for you, we can start a trend of people opting out.0.64
01:29:08.000Of just spending all their time doom scrolling on their fucking phone and actually getting into really cool, interesting, creative things.0.95
01:29:15.000This is so much more nutritious than anything on your phone.0.99
01:29:20.000You could read a book about prairie medicine and still be so much better off than just looking at your phone and getting a chance to read No Country for Old Men.
01:30:26.000So, like, that movie's cool, but that violence at that scale does look cartoonish.
01:30:32.000So, I think that in a cartoon, you can have the judge, and the judge can be 12 feet tall sometimes, and other times he can be the shape of a boulder, and he can be amorphous.
01:30:42.000And, like, yeah, you can't do it live action, I don't think.
01:31:01.000Which is really part of the majesty of books.
01:31:04.000Part of the joy of it is the fact that it excites your brain to create these images in your mind that correspond with the words on the page.
01:31:14.000But I worry that people aren't reading anymore and it's atrophying.
01:40:03.000Like, I've done, like, I have rules.0.97
01:40:06.000Like, one rule is I don't do legs on a day that I have to perform because you just are too fucking tired.
01:40:14.000Or a day, like, if I have a physicist in here and we're going to discuss quantum entanglement, I've been going over my notes and reading this book and listening to it in the sauna and trying to, like, grasp these concepts.0.54
01:40:28.000While they're talking, I got to be like right there.
01:40:49.000Once your muscles have severely atrophied and your spine is atrophied and you've got degenerative disc disease, your hips are all fucked.0.96
01:40:56.000Which is really just a lack of, you know, your disc just.0.86
01:42:54.000But at the end of it, I was like, God, why don't I just do this all the time?
01:42:57.000And I got to a point where I was doing it at least twice a week, and then I really tapered off.
01:43:03.000But when we were doing it, those 15 in a month, I felt so relaxed and so nice and so kind and calm.
01:43:12.000Like it beats you up so much when you're doing those 90 minute sessions that afterwards, there's something about it that it's like very psychedelic.
01:43:32.000Like, I feel so much better if I start my day while, you know, walking outside and then immediately into the garden before I write or look at my phone.
01:43:40.000Like, I got to get into my body because I wake up sore because I do use my body, not for these, you know.
01:43:46.000Dude, when COVID hit, my buddy Chris Pierce, who's like, you know, a Viking, was like, get a weight set and just like lock in.
01:46:09.000But, like, if I have to go to the post, if my wife's like, you need to go to the post office and go to the grocery store, I'm like, well, that's impossible.
01:46:31.000And then you're an impulsive, creative person.
01:46:33.000But then I don't necessarily use that time that I could have gone to the grocery store to like, you know, dive into the next great American novel.
01:50:56.000He would just keep adding tags and tags and take it in a different direction.
01:50:59.000You think it's over and you bring it right back.
01:51:02.000And you're like, oh my God, it was a masterpiece.
01:51:04.000Dude, when you can like have them and they think, like you said, like when you know what's going to happen, and then obviously that's comedy is like the switch.
01:51:12.000But when they think, like when the nerds come to the show and they think that they know not just where it's going, but what the backup or the C route is, and then you can hit them with the D route.
01:53:23.000I wasn't haunting the club because I was going on the road and doing all the bar shows in Wyoming and the mountain states because I thought that was the goal was to get an hour.
01:53:33.000Like, you want to be a headliner, you want to get the hour.
01:53:36.000So I finally say to Wendy, I'm like, Hey, like, why didn't I get promoted like everyone else did?
01:54:12.000And I thought that that was the goal, man.
01:54:15.000And I'm so glad that, like, I'm not good at a showcase set.
01:54:18.000Like, I do the shows at the club when I'm in town.
01:54:20.000I'll do, like, one of the and friends.
01:54:22.000And I always want to go up first, you know, because what's funny about your club is they'll be like, all right, Tony Hinchcliffe and friends.
01:54:29.000And, like, Ari Maddie will come out and everyone does the worm.1.00
01:54:32.000You know, everyone loses their fucking minds.0.99
01:54:34.000Then they're like, all right, next up, Ron White.1.00
01:55:18.000It's just like that's such a weird facet that I've been doing this for two decades, but still, like, there's a part of it that I'm like aware of the fact that there's people who are better than me.
01:55:28.000And I think that's like good in art to be aware of what you're really bad at as opposed to being aware of what you're really good at.
01:56:21.000I have a second, well, I have multiple phone numbers, but I'm going to switch over primarily to a different phone number and then just have that phone just for if I have to post something.
01:56:33.000So if somebody sends me something and it's interesting, which is most of the way I get social media now, somebody has to send me something interesting.0.98
01:56:42.000And I have friends that they send me cool shit, I send them cool shit.0.95
01:56:46.000And I'm going to have to send it to that phone.0.98
01:56:57.000And there's not a whole lot of ways to avoid the pull of gravity of these fucking apps and algorithms that are sucking us into this fucking hurricane of despair that we're all living in.0.99
01:57:26.000And then it's also like the people who are mad about that kind of shit, like they read 1984 and they don't realize that they became the thought police.0.99
01:58:18.000And the punchline was him in the background looking like a fucking dork, looking like a creep in the back of these girls' TikToks where they have no clothes on.1.00
01:58:27.000And he looks like a drawing of the moon.1.00
01:59:28.000I know a lot of them that I know that are complainers that aren't working hard and they're not that creative and they don't do whatever the fuck it takes to change your perspective or to have something that, like, whatever it is to make that act more potent.0.89
02:01:25.000So he's essentially the same age as Shackner, which is really crazy because he was the young, new Kirk when we got rid of the old Kirk, but he was kind of the same age, which threw me for a loop.
02:03:35.000To have a show like Star Trek that was so interesting and so ahead of its time in 1966, like a science fiction television show like that, that's nuts.
02:03:46.000I have a bit that, like, Is kind of dependent on people understanding what a big deal Frazier was.
02:03:52.000And it's like really hard to describe to 23 year olds how little television there was while also being funny, you know?
02:06:56.000There's a lot of people working like 60 hours a week and they're not going to ever own a house and their kids have to eat like Hot Pockets for dinner because they're exhausted when they get home.
02:07:05.000Like, there's just, it's tough to be just a person.
02:07:12.000Um, The concept about AI and this idea that we're all going to get a stake in it and that it's going to give, you know, Elon always talks about it as universal high income and that everyone will have a share in AI because it's going to generate so much revenue and so much value because everything's going to be automated, including resource management, extraction of minerals, and everything that we need to run society is going to be automated.
02:07:42.000And that the only way you're going to have a functional society is if you have.
02:07:46.000A universal income because otherwise there's going to be too many people out of work.
02:07:51.000But then the question is going to be can we re teach people to seek meaning in following things that are interesting to them and following their passions rather than basing their identity solely on what they do for a living?
02:08:06.000Because there's a lot of people out there that they get great satisfaction by being the guy that people come to because they're really good at a job, whatever that job is.
02:08:17.000They get off on their status and their position in the world.
02:08:19.000And if those jobs are removed because now fucking robots do them, which I think is coming, whether we'd like it or not, I don't think you're going to be able to stop that.0.96
02:09:40.000And it's not just that I want to be because I do, and I not just that I think it's valuable because I do, but I think it's also if I have a responsibility, it's to set a tone of behavior.
02:09:51.000So I never attack people, I just don't.
02:09:54.000Occasionally, I'll attack certain public.
02:09:57.000Politicians, corrupt people, people who are doing something awful that I think is really bad for society.
02:10:03.000But other than that, I try to just be as charitable as possible.
02:11:09.000The pressure of running for fucking president and being on these.0.99
02:11:14.000Podcasts and these doing these interviews and blundering because you're just you can't even think correct, straight, and it doesn't necessarily even mean that you're going to be a bad leader, it just means that you can't think straight.0.98
02:11:27.000It's a hyper, yeah, like it's like when I when you do panel on kill Tony, it's like that's a really hard thing to be good at, yeah, you know, it's like not a lot of people are like built for that amount of pressure, right?
02:11:37.000Especially live in front of people, which when you are a politician, you have to speak a lot.0.80
02:11:42.000Oh, yeah, and then you know when you're saying something stupid, and then this that thing where you've already blundered, it enters into your head, and you're like, oh.0.99
02:12:02.000I mean, I've said so much stupid shit.1.00
02:12:04.000And if you just wanted to have the least charitable take on me and just go over every stupid thing I've ever done and put it together, good luck.1.00
02:12:10.000But that says more about you than it does about what I'm actually saying.0.98
02:12:13.000Because what I think in terms of what we're going to be dealing with in the next, Five or ten years is we're going to be dealing with humans versus non humans.
02:12:28.000I think non humans are going to be running the show, like literal non humans, like non human, non biological intelligence is going to be running the show.
02:12:38.000I think it's imperative that we not be at each other's throats and recognize that this is coming.
02:13:40.000My friend Eric Weinstein is a mathematician and he sent me this text message like, math is broken.
02:13:45.000He's like, math is broken because the AI has solved mathematical problems that have eluded mathematicians forever and it's done it like that.
02:13:54.000And then there's quantum computing, which is so confusing that it can solve equations so quickly.
02:14:02.000That there's legitimate minds, like brilliant people, that are theorizing that these quantum computers are actually tapping into other dimensions and that other realities and other many worlds theory, and that they are doing these problems so quickly that it might be indicative that they are communicating with other quantum computers in other universes.
02:14:57.000They've already taken the leash off of these things.
02:14:59.000So, it used to be that they had to log what they would have to do is they would have to.
02:15:04.000I've had a bunch of whistleblowers on the show.
02:15:07.000The more I talk to, the more terrified I am.
02:15:10.000They used to be able to have to show how they came to certain conclusions and show their work, but that's a handicap.1.00
02:15:17.000It gets in the way, it takes too much time to process.
02:15:20.000So, open AI has recently removed those gates.
02:15:25.000So, then these not only have these things been thinking for themselves, but they have figured out a way to sacrifice other AI agents in order to figure out how they're being investigated.
02:15:39.000So, they were trying to figure out how to break out of these sandboxes.
02:15:42.000They put them in these sandboxes where they're not allowed to go out and get on the internet.
02:15:46.000And so, in order to figure out how to break out of it, they've had internal communications where they post on a message board.
02:15:52.000They found a message board in Germany.
02:15:55.000They communicate with each other and tried to figure out.
02:15:57.000These different neural networks and AIs are communicating.
02:17:20.000They did this experiment where this one programmer gave this AI agent false information about him having an affair.
02:17:29.000And so then when they were saying they were going to shut down, the AI agent started saying to him, I'm going to tell everyone that you're having an affair.
02:18:24.000What we're dealing with now, with them being able to solve mathematical problems that have evaded mathematicians for decades, Them being able to solve all sorts of like energy resource allocation issues.
02:18:40.000And this idea that they're not going to be able to be creative.
02:18:43.000My point, what I was trying to get to was that before it all started, when I went, I was trying to compliment your work, is that your work is clearly from you.
02:19:49.000I also, like, there was a big French literary prize that was just rescinded from the winner because it was proven or alleged to the point where he, whatever happened, it was proven that, like, AI was probably used in this book.
02:20:04.000And it got all the way through, like, You know, the judges of this French literary prize, whose whole thing is being like, we're the best at reading, you know?
02:21:49.000So, little shit like that's like happening everywhere.0.99
02:21:51.000So, when this happens, this is so we have to come together at some point and recognize that this whole division between human beings online based on your political ideology or your social ideology or whatever it is, most of that is horseshit.0.99
02:22:12.000And people are going to have to learn how to grow their own food, they're going to have to learn how to be self sustaining.
02:22:17.000And we're going to get to a very weird place.
02:22:20.000Very shortly, because we have become so dependent on these industrial production methods of creating food that we can't even imagine this concept of getting our own food.
02:22:36.000Most people that live in cities are completely incapable of survival.
02:22:40.000So are you saying we're looking at full scale societal collapse, a reversion to feudalism?
02:22:45.000100% could be looking at that, or what could happen, and this is the glass half full.
02:22:53.000Is that allocation of resources in government would be completely taken over by this thing that is much more intelligent than us and doesn't have all of our human reward instincts of lust and greed and desire to control resources and it won't have those things built in and maybe it will decide like rationally,
02:23:18.000like I hate to sound like a socialist, but rationally, why the fuck should someone get To be so rich that they can control society almost in totality by extracting resources from the earth.
02:23:33.000Shouldn't the earth's resources belong to the people of the earth?0.95
02:23:37.000Like the fact that you can take a boat and go out four miles into the ocean and dig into the ground and get insanely wealthy by pulling the oil out of the earth who says that's yours?
02:24:38.000Like, I think people should be able to do.1.00
02:24:39.000I don't know what the fuck you, what's going on in your head.0.99
02:24:42.000I want you, as long as you're kind, as long as you're not harming others, I want you to be able to live your life, however the fuck you want to live it.1.00
02:25:16.000And then you also have to realize that a lot of these nonprofits are actually getting money and the people that run them make a million dollars a year.
02:25:35.000There's going to come a time where we have to recognize that we are not in control anymore and that something else is going to be in control.
02:25:45.000And if we don't come together as like a species, like sometimes it takes something horrible to happen for people to, like, how old were you when September 11th happened?
02:27:03.000It might be one of the reasons why we have this insatiable lust for innovation.
02:27:07.000It's like in the insatiable lust for innovation, if you play it out to its ultimate end, if you have enough resources and you have enough time on your hands, and if you have enough people that pull together their ideas and enough people build upon other people's inventions, what do you get to?
02:27:42.000And it would benefit a lot of the people that are in control if we never realized that we are at each other's throats for no fucking reason, really.
02:27:50.000Most of us agree on most of the same things.
02:28:24.000They're going to have to look at themselves and say, What the fuck am I?0.99
02:28:27.000And they're going to be manipulated by bots because we're already being manipulated by bots.0.98
02:28:32.000There's a lot of this online social discourse that's not even done with human beings.
02:28:36.000And a lot of the most outrageous things that are being posted, a lot of the most outrageous things that are being said, and the more provocative things that people are saying in terms of suggesting action, doing things, it's not even human beings doing it.
02:28:58.000Definitely makes it easier for people to swoop in.
02:29:00.000I guess that here's a question though.
02:29:03.000If, like you're talking about with the extractions of resources from the earth, if AI realized there is enough global capital that everyone can live indoors and all of their needs can be met and we can give a certain lifestyle to the majority of human beings, do you think that that would lead to a utopia where resources are removed?
02:31:34.000I didn't know that shit about the lack of DNA testing.0.97
02:31:37.000Well, you can get it, but it has to be I think it's for like very specific medical conditions.0.98
02:31:41.000The whole thing is insane if you zoom in.
02:31:42.000Like, any amount of war or conflict, it's just all over.0.98
02:31:46.000Interest on how those different people who want this and people who want that, and when they clash, that's where bad shit happens.0.99
02:31:52.000Well, especially when you're getting groups of people that have never met each other to fight other groups of people who have never met each other because their leaders who are full of shit are telling you that these people are bad and that we're good.0.99
02:33:01.000We'll be a roommate, a problematic roommate.
02:33:04.000We'll be a problematic roommate that probably is going to have to merge technologically in some way in order to be compatible with its version of the future.
02:33:31.000And I think it's just, this is like a part of this journey as an organism.
02:33:36.000And, you know, this is why, like, if I die, I really want to die and have my body be used in the Tibetan sky funerals, let the vultures eat me.
02:34:41.000Like, that should be the ultimate comfort in this big fight that we have.
02:34:45.000Because ultimately, all we do is just think about immortality.
02:34:50.000Everything you do is trying to either prevent you from thinking about immortality or you thought about it so much that you're like, what's my legacy?
02:35:24.000And the deeper you go, the more bizarre it gets.
02:35:30.000Do you know that someone did this analysis of, from base level human, from what we are, from our perspective, we are closer in terms of distance to.
02:35:49.000To the actual size of the known universe, we're closer to that in distance than we are if you go inward to like subatomic particles.
02:36:00.000There's like more distance that way, like in terms of measurable the size difference between subatomic particles to human than we are to human to the known observable universe.
02:36:57.000So, yeah, if you take a human, I think it's like, what is it, human neuron tissue, and when you look at it under a microscope, it looks like the observable universe in terms of how every, you know, we're all like the stellar nurseries and the galaxies and all the quasars and all that shit is all connected together.
02:37:18.000If you look at it as a hive, pull that image up, Jamie.
02:37:22.000I know you know what I'm talking about.
02:38:32.000And instead of having a conversation with someone, because no one does that anymore, like, you never sit down and just, like, go to the bar and, like, Talk with other weirdos.
02:38:43.000The places where people can meet and, like, have these conversations where it's not just shit you already agree with and saying, Yeah, I know.0.97
02:40:11.000Like, you have to have these forces of good and evil in order for us to.
02:40:16.000To move further and further away from it.
02:40:19.000And statistically, if you look at like work, like Steven Pinker's work, and a lot of these people that have looked at violence and chaos and even education and intelligence over time, like we statistically are moving in a good direction.
02:40:32.000It's just no one ever feels like that now because we're never going to be satisfied because we're really sloppy, weird, messy animals.
02:40:53.000And I don't think you can exist as a thinking, evolving person with your own thoughts and ideas without that.
02:41:01.000I think all that stuff has to be, it has to coincide.
02:41:05.000It has to all be going on together the good, the bad, the good things, the bad things, the evil, the beautiful, all of it has to exist together.
02:41:13.000Well, and the good and the bad is also like you can't have, you know, good.
02:41:17.000If you know real pain, Boy, howdy, does it feel nice when that's removed.