The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #277 - Victor Conte

00:00:00.000 Is that your new meow?

00:00:07.000 No. 1.00

00:00:08.000 You son of a bitch. 1.00

00:00:09.000 Is that live? 1.00

00:00:10.000 Yeah.

00:00:10.000 Seems like it is, right?

00:00:11.000 Yep.

00:00:11.000 That was a new meow.

00:00:12.000 What are we doing?

00:00:13.000 I don't know.

00:00:13.000 Trying to scare people?

00:00:14.000 Yes.

00:00:15.000 The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast.

00:00:17.000 Tonight, ladies and gentlemen, Pasadena Ice House should be getting crazy.

00:00:21.000 We've got Ian Edwards is going to be up.

00:00:24.000 Duncan Truss will be there.

00:00:26.000 Brian Redband will be there.

00:00:27.000 We're trying to get Brody, so text Brody and tell him, invited!

00:00:31.000 And I'll give a live update.

00:00:33.000 Pleasure!

00:00:34.000 Brody Cant.

00:00:35.000 Thanks for asking. 1.00

00:00:36.000 Cant, son of a bitch! 1.00

00:00:37.000 We'll get somebody else. 1.00

00:00:38.000 We tried to call Todd Glass yesterday, but he didn't call us back.

00:00:43.000 Maybe Todd Glass is busy.

00:00:45.000 Maybe Todd Glass is too important for us.

00:00:47.000 Maybe he's out of the country.

00:00:48.000 Todd Glass is being hilarious.

00:00:50.000 He's always hilarious. 0.98

00:00:51.000 He's fucking awesome. 0.85

00:00:51.000 So we've got to get him in here. 0.85

00:00:53.000 It's an oversight.

00:00:54.000 We've got to get Patton Oswalt in there, too. 1.00

00:00:55.000 Fuck yes. 1.00

00:00:56.000 So please harass him. 1.00

00:00:57.000 I don't really, but yes, do it.

00:01:00.000 The Geraldine Experience Podcast.

00:01:02.000 Oh, go to deskwad.tv if you want to find out.

00:01:04.000 Brian's got shows coming up in Ohio.

00:01:06.000 I believe November 11th is sold out, right?

00:01:08.000 But you added shows?

00:01:10.000 We have November 8th in Dayton and November 10th in Columbus, and there's more shows being added.

00:01:15.000 And Tommy Segura is on the lineup, too.

00:01:17.000 If you've never seen Tommy, and this is what I said yesterday, I really think he's one of the best comics in the country. 0.91

00:01:20.000 He's a fucking awesome guy, too. 0.61

00:01:22.000 And he's just hilarious. 0.97

00:01:24.000 He's really good right now.

00:01:25.000 I mean, he was always really good, but he's even better now. 0.97

00:01:27.000 Last time I saw him, he was just fucking murdering at the Ice House. 0.60

00:01:31.000 We'll be at the Ice House tonight, 10 o'clock, $15 show. 0.98

00:01:34.000 This weekend, I think it's totally sold out.

00:01:38.000 It's sold out.

00:01:38.000 People are begging me to get tickets for them, and I'm like, what am I supposed to do?

00:01:42.000 We're in Minneapolis, bitch. 1.00

00:01:43.000 Sorry. 0.99

00:01:43.000 Next time we'll do it, we'll just get a bigger place. 0.99

00:01:46.000 We'll be back, though.

00:01:47.000 Don't sweat it.

00:01:49.000 And then, of course, the end of the world show, December 21st, 2012. Those dates...

00:01:55.000 I've all been added.

00:01:56.000 That one's on Live Nation.

00:01:57.000 You can find it on my Twitter feed somewhere.

00:02:00.000 Don't be lazy.

00:02:00.000 Just Google it.

00:02:02.000 Don't get scalped.

00:02:03.000 But it's me, Honey Honey Band, Doug Stanhope, and Joey Diaz. 0.99

00:02:08.000 This shit is going to be epic, ladies and gentlemen. 0.99

00:02:11.000 Just imagine that experience. 1.00

00:02:14.000 And if the minds are right, we party together.

00:02:16.000 We party together while the Earth gets hit by a giant asteroid or the alien's land or...

00:02:22.000 Kim Kardashian becomes president. 0.99

00:02:24.000 Whatever the fuck's going to happen that's going to make it go wrong. 0.99

00:02:27.000 We're also brought to you by Onnit.com. 0.98

00:02:29.000 Oh, I got new t-shirts in, too.

00:02:31.000 The Higher Primate shirts are in.

00:02:32.000 And I got some new designs that we're working on.

00:02:35.000 Two killer ones.

00:02:36.000 Two Mike Maxwell pieces that are awesome.

00:02:38.000 Oh, snap. 0.99

00:02:39.000 More monkey-related bullshit, ladies and gentlemen. 0.99

00:02:42.000 Hire-primate.com is the name of my t-shirt company. 0.99

00:02:45.000 That's all mine.

00:02:46.000 That's why it's so childish.

00:02:48.000 That's why it's monkeys and mushrooms.

00:02:49.000 But there's a few aliens and there's monkeys playing chess with aliens. 0.97

00:02:53.000 I like how you're monkeys and aliens and I'm cats and boobs. 0.99

00:02:58.000 Yeah, we're a mess. 0.99

00:02:59.000 If we have a cartoon, you're a monkey and I'm a cat.

00:03:02.000 Okay, let's do it.

00:03:03.000 Well, where's the alien for then?

00:03:05.000 That could be our guest.

00:03:06.000 Okay.

00:03:06.000 Because they're alien to us.

00:03:08.000 That's the overlord.

00:03:11.000 Onnit.com.

00:03:12.000 O-N-N-I-T. Just got in new Blendtec blenders.

00:03:16.000 And if you go to Onnit.com forward slash blender...

00:03:19.000 And you pick up one of these blenders.

00:03:21.000 You also get a free can of hemp force protein powder, which is an amazing protein powder that we sell.

00:03:30.000 That is the best quality hemp hearts that you can buy.

00:03:34.000 It also has maca in it.

00:03:35.000 It has raw cocoa in it. 1.00

00:03:38.000 This shit's not cheap, but it's fucking delicious. 1.00

00:03:41.000 And one of the reasons why it's not cheap is because our government is a fucking mess, and they don't let you grow hemp. 1.00

00:03:46.000 It's really silly. 0.99

00:03:48.000 Hemp you can buy. 0.72

00:03:49.000 This is how it works.

00:03:50.000 You can buy hemp.

00:03:52.000 You can bring it into the country.

00:03:54.000 Once you get it into the country, you can sell it.

00:03:56.000 But you can't grow it here.

00:03:58.000 It's really an insult to the American farmer and the American entrepreneur, someone who would want to do that, who would want to open up a hemp farm and grow some hemp, which, by the way, is completely non-psychoactive.

00:04:10.000 There's zero in it that can get you highs.

00:04:12.000 It doesn't get you high.

00:04:13.000 It's not what it is.

00:04:14.000 It's a totally different thing.

00:04:15.000 It's a textile.

00:04:16.000 It's oil.

00:04:18.000 It's seeds that you can make salads with where it's very high in protein and high in amino acids.

00:04:24.000 It's like an amazing plant. 0.99

00:04:26.000 There's all sorts of great stuff you can get out of hemp, but it's illegal because we're silly bitches. 1.00

00:04:31.000 This country is run by silly bitches. 1.00

00:04:34.000 Period. 1.00

00:04:35.000 If you don't correct that, you're a silly bitch. 1.00

00:04:37.000 There's no getting around that. 1.00

00:04:38.000 It's the dumbest law ever. 0.99

00:04:40.000 Because it's not even a drug law. 0.99

00:04:41.000 It's a law about a useful plant that's related to a drug. 1.00

00:04:44.000 It's like arresting you because your cousin's a fucking crook. 1.00

00:04:47.000 It's stupid. 1.00

00:04:48.000 It doesn't make any sense. 1.00

00:04:50.000 So that's the deal with HempForce.

00:04:52.000 If you get a new Blendtec blender, and I've been talking about these kale shakes that I drink every morning.

00:04:58.000 A lot of people who have tried it have really found some great benefits from it.

00:05:03.000 The way it makes you feel, you feel so clean. 0.99

00:05:06.000 You feel like you have all these fucking nutrients in your body. 0.97

00:05:09.000 Besides vitamins, I mean vitamins and supplements are important, but what's really important is nutrient-dense foods. 0.98

00:05:16.000 You know, you really should drink a lot of water and eat green, leafy vegetables.

00:05:21.000 And the best way to eat it for me is these kale shakes that I have every day.

00:05:24.000 And I do it now with a Blendtec blender.

00:05:26.000 It's the best one we can find.

00:05:27.000 And we sell it quite a bit cheaper than the manufacturer retailers.

00:05:30.000 The manufacturer retails like...

00:05:32.000 Almost $200 more than what we sell it for. 0.99

00:05:35.000 We try to sell you the best shit possible at reasonable prices. 0.98

00:05:39.000 It's not easy to do. 0.99

00:05:40.000 The kettlebells, for instance, those are hard to sell cheap because we're sending you fucking giant metal objects. 0.83

00:05:46.000 They're like really heavy, but they last forever.

00:05:49.000 They're the best quality we could possibly get, and we sell them at a very reasonable rate, and we guarantee everything we have, especially the supplements.

00:05:56.000 You know, a lot of people...

00:05:58.000 They have a lot of doubts about supplements.

00:06:00.000 People think certain supplements are placebos.

00:06:02.000 I don't want anybody ever feeling ripped off.

00:06:05.000 So if you buy anything from Onnit, any supplement, you have 30 days, or rather the first 30 pills that you buy, there's a 100% money back guarantee.

00:06:14.000 If you take it and you don't like it, you don't even have to return the product.

00:06:17.000 You just say, this doesn't do anything for me.

00:06:20.000 That is, A, how convinced we are that we're selling only the best quality ingredients that are definitely beneficial for people.

00:06:27.000 And B, how we go into this in the spirit of not ever wanting anybody to ever feel ripped off.

00:06:33.000 No one's trying to rip you off. 0.98

00:06:34.000 We're trying to sell you the best shit possible that I use on a daily basis. 0.99

00:06:38.000 Whether it's AlphaBrain, which is a blend of cognitive enhancers that I find to be fucking awesome. 1.00

00:06:44.000 Video game dudes are in love with that shit now. 0.99

00:06:46.000 I'm getting a lot of people from the pool playing world. 0.99

00:06:50.000 Max Eberle started taking Alpha Brain and he's letting people know about it and people have been asking me about it. 0.99

00:06:55.000 Poker players are huge on that shit. 0.98

00:06:57.000 There's a bunch of poker players who are sponsored by Onnit. 1.00

00:07:00.000 They're just huge believers in it.

00:07:02.000 Because it's nutrients that enhance your brain's ability to fire correctly, to come up with answers quick, just to work and be smooth.

00:07:10.000 And it's not a drug.

00:07:12.000 It's not a speedy thing. 0.97

00:07:13.000 It's not anything that's going to make you feel like shit when you come off of it.

00:07:16.000 It's not addictive. 0.75

00:07:17.000 It's a nutrient.

00:07:18.000 That's the other question that people have about hemp force, protein powder. 0.78

00:07:21.000 Will it make me test positive for marijuana?

00:07:23.000 No, it will not.

00:07:24.000 But poppy seed bagels will make you test positive for heroin.

00:07:27.000 That's a fact.

00:07:29.000 That's weird, but that's a fact.

00:07:31.000 Totally non-related. 0.99

00:07:32.000 Alright, get yourself some kettlebells, get some fucking battle robes, become all manly and shit, and if you want to buy some supplements, if you use the code name ROGAN, you will save 10% off any and all them bitches, okay? 1.00

00:07:44.000 Alright, Victor Conte is here, ladies and gentlemen, and we're going to get to the bottom of a lot of serious shit in the sports world. 0.99

00:07:50.000 Hit the music, Brian. 0.94

00:07:51.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

00:07:57.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:08:00.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:08:03.000 Hey, hey, hey, hey.

00:08:04.000 Never feels real until the music plays.

00:08:07.000 Then it feels like we're really doing this.

00:08:08.000 Thank you, sir, for coming on the podcast.

00:08:10.000 I really appreciate it.

00:08:11.000 You're a very controversial figure for people who don't know.

00:08:15.000 You're the guy who was, correct me if I'm wrong, you were the head, Balco, is that the correct way to spell it?

00:08:20.000 Balco.

00:08:21.000 Balco.

00:08:21.000 You were at the head of the Balco labs that were making these undetectable steroids, and you were hooking athletes up and then advising them how to beat the system.

00:08:31.000 How did you get involved in that?

00:08:34.000 You know, my life mantra, Joe, is if it's not fun, I don't do it.

00:08:38.000 It was fun?

00:08:39.000 So I was having fun.

00:08:40.000 Right.

00:08:41.000 It was the challenge of being in the trenches and, you know, being involved in a number of projects and a number of sports and going after those historic records.

00:08:52.000 Was it fun because you were sort of cheating the system?

00:08:55.000 Like, was that part of the fun of it?

00:08:57.000 That you were being naughty?

00:08:59.000 No.

00:08:59.000 You know, it was more about, previous to that I had developed a product called ZMA that had made a significant amount of money, and I think like anyone else that got to a point where they didn't have to worry about paying the mortgage and so on, I decided, what is it that I really like to do?

00:09:19.000 And that was be in the trenches and help athletes and try to do historic things.

00:09:26.000 So whether it be go to the Super Bowl with teams or go to World Championships or Olympics or whatever it was, we would set specific goals like the Tim Montgomery Project called Project World Record.

00:09:38.000 We set out.

00:09:40.000 I recruited and hired a bunch of people, including Ben Johnson's coach, Charlie Francis, To create the world's fastest human is one of the projects that we had.

00:09:49.000 And we did end up eventually doing that.

00:09:51.000 Jesus Christ.

00:09:53.000 So you looked at it as sort of a science project sort of a thing.

00:09:57.000 The challenge and the fun and the excitement, a lot of people thought because it was an IRS-led investigation that it was all about the money.

00:10:04.000 That's absolutely the farthest thing from the truth.

00:10:07.000 Ultimately, I plead to probably many consider the smallest money laundering case in the history of the United States in an amount of $100.

00:10:16.000 And how long did they put you in jail for that?

00:10:19.000 I spent four months in a minimum security prison camp where they were smoking weed.

00:10:27.000 No!

00:10:29.000 Talk about an experience.

00:10:34.000 Maybe you shouldn't rat on them because then they'll tighten down the people that are in there right now.

00:10:38.000 Well, I told you earlier before you started that one of your friends that you had on your show, Tommy Chong, he's already ratted on him.

00:10:47.000 In fact, he ratted on him on the Dave Letterman show when I was in.

00:10:50.000 Oh, did he really? 1.00

00:10:51.000 Damn, man. 1.00

00:10:51.000 You got to keep that quiet if it's an easy jail. 1.00

00:10:54.000 You know, you don't want to fuck it up for people. 0.96

00:10:56.000 There's a lot of angry Republicans out there. 0.99

00:10:58.000 They're like, what are these fucking people doing? 1.00

00:11:00.000 They're supposed to be in jail. 1.00

00:11:01.000 Supposed to be getting punished.

00:11:02.000 How do we keep our kids safe?

00:11:05.000 It was a sports complex.

00:11:07.000 Was it really?

00:11:07.000 So you just worked out and hung out and stuff?

00:11:09.000 Well, you know, to make a long story short, the first morning when I woke up, and it was kind of a university campus-like setting, and I walked out, and in the middle of the courtyard was a huge sign, and it said, Sports Complex.

00:11:24.000 Basketball, football, baseball, soccer, bocce ball, volleyball, handball.

00:11:31.000 And I looked around and there was about 500 guys there.

00:11:36.000 And they all had all sorts of equipment.

00:11:39.000 There was a soccer game and a baseball game and all going on.

00:11:44.000 And then I looked over and I saw the rec center.

00:11:48.000 And I walked over to that and walked in and there were six players.

00:11:52.000 Pool tables and six foosball tables and six ping pong tables.

00:11:55.000 And then I went through this door and it was this huge music department.

00:11:59.000 Three different musical groups were practicing.

00:12:02.000 And I said, well, do they have concerts here?

00:12:05.000 Oh yeah, we have a routine on Friday nights.

00:12:07.000 We have the bands playing.

00:12:08.000 We have concerts outside.

00:12:11.000 That's prison.

00:12:13.000 Sounds awesome.

00:12:14.000 This is my first 10 minutes out on the compound.

00:12:18.000 I started walking around with some guys around the walking track.

00:12:22.000 I said, are they smoking weed here?

00:12:24.000 I said, yeah, you want some weed? 1.00

00:12:26.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

00:12:27.000 I said, listen, I don't want anything to do with this kind of stuff. 0.99

00:12:30.000 I don't want to get in any more trouble than I'm already in.

00:12:33.000 Do they test people?

00:12:35.000 How could you smoke weed?

00:12:36.000 I mean, don't they test them?

00:12:38.000 Well, First of all, there's no fences around the place.

00:12:41.000 Right.

00:12:41.000 About every 200 feet, they have a sign on a stake that says, Out of Bounds.

00:12:47.000 Now, I got there in December 1st of 2005. That Christmas, about 25 guys just walked out to the freeway and had their road and had their families pick them up, and they left.

00:12:59.000 Wow.

00:13:00.000 So it was kind of an honor system.

00:13:01.000 But, yeah, anything that you wanted, alcohol...

00:13:05.000 Any and every type you wanted was $20 for 8 ounces.

00:13:08.000 They had meth.

00:13:09.000 They had steroids.

00:13:10.000 They had cocaine.

00:13:11.000 That's so hilarious.

00:13:15.000 It didn't take me long to figure out that they had several really nice-looking female correction officers there, with hair done up and big chest. 1.00

00:13:27.000 It was kind of stunning to me.

00:13:28.000 And the guy said, listen, you want some action?

00:13:30.000 What?

00:13:31.000 Wait a minute.

00:13:32.000 That's awesome.

00:13:33.000 I'm telling you the straight scoop. 0.99

00:13:35.000 The female corrections officers were also hookers. 1.00

00:13:38.000 My understanding is, on average, they were making about $30,000 a month. 0.98

00:13:42.000 I'm going to jail.

00:13:43.000 You know how many dudes are trying to go to jail right now? 0.99

00:13:46.000 Dudes with fat bank accounts that hate their wives. 0.66

00:13:50.000 It's like, get me near a pool table, and I can play basketball with the boys. 0.99

00:13:54.000 Let's all get arrested together.

00:13:56.000 Please arrest me.

00:13:57.000 I swear to God. 1.00

00:13:58.000 Holy shit. 1.00

00:13:59.000 I swear to God, the guy, they have cubes. 1.00

00:14:02.000 It's a 12 by 12 concrete block that are six feet high, not cells.

00:14:06.000 They just have an open door.

00:14:07.000 And this young kid came in that same first day that I was there, and my cubie was a guy named Evil was his name.

00:14:15.000 And he said, Evil, I'm going to have to do something bad because I'm scheduled to go home tomorrow.

00:14:19.000 I said, you're scheduled to go home and you want to stay here?

00:14:24.000 He said, yeah, if I go home, I've got to start paying rent.

00:14:27.000 Oh, wow.

00:14:28.000 Well, that really does happen to people, right?

00:14:30.000 They become really institutionalized.

00:14:32.000 There's people that go to jail for a long time and they become almost programmed.

00:14:36.000 They have a real hard time adjusting.

00:14:38.000 Well, the amazing part of the story is that the federal taxpayers were paying $100,000 a day for me to be in there.

00:14:46.000 $100,000 for you?

00:14:49.000 Yeah, ABC Nightline News, Martin Bashir announced that night that I went in, they had a special, and he said that they had spent investigating and prosecuting me.

00:14:57.000 Of course, I was the first one in.

00:14:59.000 They'd spent $12.7 million, so divide that by 120 days, it's $100,000 a day.

00:15:05.000 Wow.

00:15:05.000 Yeah, it gets really weird when it gets to these performance-enhancing drug trials.

00:15:09.000 They go way out of bounds.

00:15:11.000 It's really interesting how we just sort of accept that. 0.99

00:15:15.000 These congressional hearings that they have for perjury about fucking steroids and baseball, like, really? 0.98

00:15:23.000 Is that what we're using Congress for in the middle of two wars? 0.98

00:15:25.000 We're going to make sure that some guy wasn't on growth? 0.99

00:15:28.000 What the fuck is wrong with people? 0.96

00:15:31.000 It's really strange that they concentrate on it so much. 0.99

00:15:34.000 They make it this massive deal.

00:15:37.000 It's certainly a debatable issue.

00:15:39.000 There's no question about it.

00:15:40.000 But the prevalence of all sorts of different things that are enhancing performance...

00:15:45.000 Available at every single vitamin store all over the country.

00:15:49.000 They're there all the time.

00:15:51.000 And those are legal.

00:15:52.000 So because they're legal, you say, well, that's okay.

00:15:55.000 Well, they're performance-enhancing drugs, okay?

00:15:57.000 These are compounds, molecules.

00:15:59.000 These are different.

00:16:00.000 There's a bunch of different things that you could buy. 0.97

00:16:02.000 GNC, and they will fucking help you recover faster. 0.96

00:16:04.000 They will help you get stronger. 0.99

00:16:05.000 They will give you more testosterone. 0.77

00:16:07.000 They just will.

00:16:08.000 They will.

00:16:08.000 These are legal.

00:16:09.000 They exist.

00:16:10.000 So... 0.99

00:16:11.000 The weirdness of deciding that Roger Clemens shouldn't be taking growth, and if he is taking growth, he should tell the truth about it, and if he doesn't tell the truth about it, we're going to drag you in front of fucking Congress. 0.97

00:16:22.000 Like, whoa, you guys took it too far. 0.99

00:16:24.000 He's a fucking baseball player! 1.00

00:16:26.000 He's a baseball player! 1.00

00:16:27.000 You're mad that he didn't tell the truth about a hormone that makes him better at age 40?

00:16:34.000 Come on, man. 0.99

00:16:35.000 What the fuck are we wasting our money on? 1.00

00:16:37.000 This is ridiculous. 1.00

00:16:38.000 It doesn't make any sense that they would spend so much money doing that. 0.83

00:16:41.000 Did you start off using steroids with athletes or did you slowly work into it?

00:16:47.000 You know, I was a musician for many years.

00:16:49.000 I played the bass with...

00:16:53.000 A group called Tower Power and also thereafter with the jazz pianist Herbie Hancock.

00:16:57.000 And I made 17 different CDs that were in the store and are still available.

00:17:02.000 And I was looking for a way to get off the road in 1983. I was 33 at the time.

00:17:11.000 And my cousin's roommate was a guy that had bought this...

00:17:17.000 It's called an ICP, is the acronym, Inductively Coupled Plasma Atomic Emission Spectrometer.

00:17:23.000 I see you've got Tower Power Plan there.

00:17:24.000 You could just call it insane.

00:17:25.000 There's Lenny Pickett that I was in the band with.

00:17:27.000 There's my cousin Bruce.

00:17:29.000 Dude, this is you guys?

00:17:30.000 He's the...

00:17:31.000 Can we hear this?

00:17:31.000 Lenny is the...

00:17:33.000 In fact, Lenny Williams just sang the national anthem at the Giants game last night and forgot the words.

00:17:38.000 Where are you in this, Victor?

00:17:40.000 Let me see.

00:17:42.000 This may or may not have been the period where I'm in the band.

00:17:45.000 I can't tell.

00:17:45.000 These are all the same guys, but this may have been a bit before I joined the band.

00:17:49.000 I don't see...

00:17:50.000 Oh no, it's Rocco is playing here, the original bass player.

00:17:53.000 This is the guy that I replaced.

00:17:54.000 That's a huge band.

00:17:56.000 How many people were in that band?

00:17:57.000 Ten.

00:17:57.000 There were ten guys.

00:17:59.000 You guys must have tore it up on the road.

00:18:01.000 I had a lot of fun.

00:18:02.000 I bet you did.

00:18:03.000 I had a lot of fun.

00:18:04.000 So you went from that?

00:18:04.000 How do you go from that to...

00:18:05.000 Well, and then I was looking for a way to make money and this guy Jack Cameron that had graduated with my cousin from USC had started a lab in Santa Barbara and he bought this piece of equipment that could analyze Any sort of biological fluid, tissue, blood, urine, but they mainly used these pieces of equipment.

00:18:29.000 His actual contract that he had at the time was with Hughes Aircraft, and they would drain the oil from the engines on a jet and analyze the oil for the concentration of metals so they would know when to replace the engine parts.

00:18:44.000 But he also knew that there was an application of this...

00:18:48.000 In terms of medical and specifically sport application.

00:18:51.000 And he knew that I was a track athlete in high school and college.

00:18:56.000 And he said, I've got an idea.

00:18:57.000 And he pitched this to me.

00:18:58.000 I went down to Santa Barbara where the equipment was at that time.

00:19:02.000 And long story short, I couldn't even pronounce the name of the instrument.

00:19:05.000 But I said, sure, it sounds like a good idea to me.

00:19:08.000 I could buy it for $25, I mean, excuse me, $10 in analysis.

00:19:12.000 And sell it for $25 in analysis.

00:19:15.000 So I was in business.

00:19:17.000 He flew up to the Bay Area and hooked me up with a few medical doctors, and they started using the service.

00:19:23.000 So you had no background working with athletes?

00:19:24.000 I had no background whatsoever.

00:19:26.000 Whatsoever.

00:19:26.000 Wow.

00:19:27.000 But...

00:19:29.000 You know, I've always had, people have called it Victor's Knack, and so I founded Balco in March of 1984. Well, immediately, I started, you know, hooking up with world-class athletes.

00:19:41.000 The first one was Alberto Salazar, who was the world record holder in the marathon at the time.

00:19:45.000 He'd won the New York City Marathon two or three times.

00:19:48.000 And shortly after, it was Matt Biondi, who at that time was the world's fastest swimmer, who won seven or eight gold medals in the Olympics in 1988. And it just continued.

00:19:57.000 The next thing you know, I had professional football players, and so I started building this database, and I just kind of learned as I went along, and eventually I did learn how to run and operate the equipment, and we became fully Medicare certified and licensed.

00:20:14.000 So what exactly were you doing for these athletes initially?

00:20:18.000 Well, we were analyzing, we called it multiple compartment multi-element analysis.

00:20:23.000 So we would look at up to 40 different elements, predominantly minerals and trace elements.

00:20:29.000 And we'd centrifuge the blood, separate it into the fluid portion, the plasma or serum, and the packed cells or red blood cells.

00:20:37.000 We looked at whole blood.

00:20:38.000 We looked at urine.

00:20:39.000 So we would calculate their retention, excretion, and all these ratios.

00:20:43.000 And then I would develop individualized nutrition programs for the athletes.

00:20:47.000 In a short period of time, I had Bill Romanowski showed up at Balco's door.

00:20:55.000 It was when he left the 49ers in 1995. And then he went to Philadelphia for a year and had a great season.

00:21:02.000 He won a game.

00:21:03.000 He had 24 tackles in a game.

00:21:05.000 The following year, he became the leader of the Denver Broncos.

00:21:09.000 I talked with Arthur Zaporin, who was the team physician of the Broncos.

00:21:13.000 He probably still is today, but he was then.

00:21:15.000 Went to training camp.

00:21:18.000 Tested every one of the players' blood and urine samples and created an individual nutrition program for all 85 guys in training camp.

00:21:25.000 Long story short, they not only won the Super Bowl that year, but they won the Super Bowl the following year.

00:21:31.000 It just kind of, right time, right place, right ideas.

00:21:35.000 So this kind of created a lot of attention regarding what I was doing.

00:21:39.000 And previous to that, though, I had went to the Olympics in 1988, and I'd worked with 25 athletes, judo athletes, track athletes.

00:21:50.000 And Matt Biondi, the swimmer.

00:21:52.000 Long story short, of those 25 athletes that I helped, they brought back a total of 15 medals.

00:21:58.000 Well, the whole United States team brought back 97, so 20% of the medals that came back were people that I had been helping.

00:22:04.000 Wow.

00:22:06.000 This was all legit?

00:22:08.000 This was all legit.

00:22:10.000 This was from 84 through 2000. This is just minerals, vitamins, diet.

00:22:15.000 It was all legit.

00:22:16.000 Now, did I know that some of these guys, as an example, in 88 I worked with all the shot putters, hammer throwers, discus throwers.

00:22:24.000 Well, of course these guys were all doing stuff.

00:22:27.000 Right.

00:22:28.000 I knew that they were doing stuff, but I wasn't involved directly in that.

00:22:33.000 So you were just brought in as the analyst?

00:22:37.000 The nutritionist is what I did.

00:22:38.000 I provided nutritional supplements based on the comprehensive blood and urine test.

00:22:43.000 How do they pass tests?

00:22:45.000 Do they have it timed?

00:22:47.000 Is that what they were doing?

00:22:47.000 Of course.

00:22:48.000 They would just taper off and pass.

00:22:51.000 And here's where the big turn occurred.

00:22:55.000 After the '88 Olympics, and I don't know if you recently watched this 9.79 asterisk program that has been on ESPN, the 30/30 about Ben Johnson?

00:23:04.000 No, I haven't seen that.

00:23:06.000 It's a very interesting documentary.

00:23:08.000 I was there in Seoul in '88, standing at the finish line when he ran 9.79 and all this Long story short, all these eight guys, one at a time, since then, have either been busted or admitted that they were using performance-enhancing drugs.

00:23:23.000 Of course, he was not the only one.

00:23:25.000 But very interesting program.

00:23:28.000 And thereafter, four years later in 1992, At the track and field trials in New Orleans, I had befriended this Olympic official.

00:23:39.000 And I was working with one of the same shot putters, Greg Trafalis, who in 1992 had the farthest throw in the world, 72-1.5.

00:23:48.000 And at these trials, he tested positive.

00:23:53.000 So this guy, which we won't name, but he lives here in Southern California.

00:23:58.000 He was an Olympic official.

00:23:59.000 He's no longer involved with track and field, but at that time he was.

00:24:03.000 And he called me and said, your boy tested positive.

00:24:07.000 I said, you're kidding.

00:24:09.000 So I called Greg, told him, he told his wife Mary, you know, what was he going to do now?

00:24:15.000 He was going to have to look for a job.

00:24:17.000 I mean, this was quite upsetting to him.

00:24:19.000 And then three or four days later, I get a call back from this same guy, and he said, well, one of the elder statesmen at TAC, used to be called the Athletic Congress, now it's USATF, United States Track and Field, And he said one of the elder statesmen passed away and they had a reception afterwards and some of these big dogs within the organization got together and decided that it was time to sweep these five positive drug tests that they came up with under the rug.

00:24:49.000 So tell your boys off the hook.

00:24:51.000 Wow.

00:24:52.000 So once I had first-hand knowledge of this, and I also knew that there were other positive drug tests that were covered up in 1988 in Seoul.

00:25:01.000 So this weighed on me for a while, and it wasn't until 2000 when I was at a Mr. Olympia bodybuilding contest in Las Vegas, and the guy that made the original stock of The Clear that was involved in, Patrick Arnold, He said, hey, I've got some stuff.

00:25:20.000 He called it stuff.

00:25:21.000 And he said, you know, I don't think it will cause a positive test.

00:25:24.000 He wouldn't know for sure.

00:25:25.000 He said, well, it may, you know, it seems to enhance recovery, et cetera, et cetera.

00:25:30.000 So I bought some of this stuff from him for about $150, I think.

00:25:35.000 Did you ask him how it works?

00:25:38.000 Now I can tell you exactly what it was.

00:25:41.000 It was something called norbolethone, which is an anabolic steroid that was developed in the 1960s.

00:25:46.000 There were liver toxicity issues about it, and they never brought it to market.

00:25:51.000 So he saw this in the Merck Index and made this stuff.

00:25:56.000 And so the bottom line is that I took some myself for four consecutive days in a row, and it was a suppression test.

00:26:05.000 I was trying to determine, you know, does it have an affinity for the androgen receptor?

00:26:09.000 And each and every day, my own endogenous production of testosterone went down to zero after four days.

00:26:15.000 I realized...

00:26:17.000 That it does have an affinity for the receptor.

00:26:19.000 It is anabolic.

00:26:21.000 It's very potent.

00:26:23.000 So the first thing I did was dilute it by 50% and change the frequency and dosage schedule compared to what he was using.

00:26:29.000 But shortly thereafter, with this reduced dosage, I started giving it to various athletes.

00:26:36.000 And I also had it tested, and it came back clean.

00:26:42.000 So it was undetectable.

00:26:43.000 So it was undetectable because people just didn't know what it was?

00:26:46.000 No, because what they have is a...

00:26:50.000 First of all, all the rules changed in the Balco case.

00:26:54.000 So we're talking pre-Balco.

00:26:57.000 They have a list of about 30 to 35 anabolic steroids.

00:27:02.000 And for each one of those, they have what's called a mass spectrogram fragmentation pattern.

00:27:07.000 It's like a thumbprint.

00:27:09.000 So they can measure all these peaks and it either matches or it doesn't.

00:27:13.000 So they're looking for specific things, a pattern of a specific anabolic steroid.

00:27:21.000 So if you've got one that doesn't have the fingerprint, there's no match, well then they can't see it, so to speak.

00:27:27.000 Wow.

00:27:29.000 So, however, that's all changed now.

00:27:31.000 Now they, if you want me to explain that, I can explain to you why.

00:27:35.000 Yeah, what's the difference?

00:27:35.000 They changed all the laws.

00:27:37.000 BALCO changed everything.

00:27:38.000 There used to be two tiers.

00:27:40.000 The first is that, for an anabolic steroid, is that it's similar in structure to testosterone.

00:27:48.000 All anabolic steroids are modified or derivatives of testosterone.

00:27:53.000 The second prong was that there had to be some sort of scientific evidence proving that it created protein synthesis, that it promoted muscle growth.

00:28:05.000 Well, in this case, there was science that promoted this.

00:28:09.000 They just couldn't see it.

00:28:11.000 Now, they've removed that second prong.

00:28:14.000 So even if they don't, at the time, you know, I'm the one that made up the name, the clear.

00:28:18.000 Later, they said, well, you know, have you this THG? You know, what about THG? I said, what's that?

00:28:26.000 Tetrahydrogestronone.

00:28:27.000 Never heard of it.

00:28:28.000 I didn't know what they were even talking about.

00:28:30.000 Now, this is what the chemists, through reverse engineering, were able to do to figure out You know, what that was.

00:28:35.000 But understand there was two versions of the clear.

00:28:38.000 The first was this norbolethon.

00:28:40.000 And then I had access to all kinds of inside information within the Olympic testing network.

00:28:49.000 And what I mean by that is, let's talk about where they do the testing now for USADA, for VADA, for everybody at the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory There was a guy that actually, he was the assistant to Don Catlin, was there for 15 years, and he left, and I knew somebody that knew him, and long story short, I ended up hiring him.

00:29:20.000 So I had, you know, obviously he knew people in the lab.

00:29:23.000 He actually told me that this original species of the clear, norbolethone, that he personally had went to Reith Laboratories in 1982 when they built the lab.

00:29:35.000 And the purpose was for the 1984 Olympic Games in Los Angeles.

00:29:39.000 And he went to Don Catlin and said, You need to create a test for this substance.

00:29:48.000 It's in this Merck Index.

00:29:50.000 Guys could get this.

00:29:51.000 They could make this.

00:29:52.000 It could be everywhere, and you wouldn't know it.

00:29:55.000 So he brought it to his attention. 1.00

00:29:56.000 In his own words, he said, well, you know, Don Catlin kind of told me to blow it out my ass. 0.99

00:30:02.000 And they just ignored him. 0.99

00:30:04.000 Well, exactly what he predicted happened.

00:30:09.000 And that's in about 1997. Patrick saw this.

00:30:13.000 He made this.

00:30:15.000 It got out there.

00:30:16.000 He gave some to me, so I gave it to all these Olympic athletes.

00:30:21.000 But an interesting aspect of this story, and this has been out there before, but I don't know that many within the world of MMA know this, but Patrick made like a gallon of this stuff.

00:30:34.000 We only needed a couple drops.

00:30:36.000 What did it work?

00:30:39.000 It was a very powerful anabolic steroid.

00:30:43.000 You put it in an eyedropper and you put a couple of drops under your tongue.

00:30:46.000 Now, here's what I was told.

00:30:49.000 I don't want to create more multi-million dollar lawsuits against me, but here's the story that I was told.

00:30:55.000 He sold a whole bunch of this stuff like a gallon to Bob Sapp, the K-1 fighter.

00:31:03.000 And my understanding is this stuff was all over the NFL. I guess during this time, he was out of the NFL, and I think there was a period of time when he played in the Canadian League before he went to Japan to do the K-1 fighting.

00:31:16.000 But the point is, this stuff was very widely distributed, is my understanding.

00:31:22.000 Bob Sapp got to a level that was like...

00:31:25.000 Well, I couldn't even say cartoonish because it was more like CGI. He was the first guy ever that could have played the Incredible Hulk.

00:31:35.000 Like, he really could have played the Hulk because he was that big.

00:31:39.000 I mean, like Lou Ferrigno when he played the Hulk.

00:31:42.000 He's like a bodybuilder.

00:31:43.000 I mean, he was very well built.

00:31:45.000 He was obviously very muscular, but he wasn't ridiculous. 0.85

00:31:48.000 There's something about Bob Sapp when he was 370 pounds with a six-pack that was just ridiculous.

00:31:55.000 So you probably didn't know there was a connection between Balco and Bob Sapp.

00:31:59.000 No.

00:32:00.000 No, no, no.

00:32:01.000 He bought a gallon of that stuff? 1.00

00:32:03.000 Damn. 1.00

00:32:04.000 Oh my god. 1.00

00:32:05.000 Just think about how much he must have taken to get that big.

00:32:08.000 No, all you had to do.

00:32:09.000 Pull up a picture of him, Brian.

00:32:11.000 Pull up a picture of Sap versus Noguera.

00:32:13.000 Look in Google Images.

00:32:15.000 Bob Sap versus Noguera. 0.95

00:32:16.000 The photos are so ridiculous, you can't even believe he's a real human.

00:32:21.000 So anyway, because I had a lot of contacts within the Olympic testing facilities and so on, They found some,

00:32:36.000 quote, peculiar metabolites in the urine of Marion Jones and other athletes, so they started asking athletes, the actual testers that go out to these athletes' training facilities, without naming names, but a guy that was on the team in 2000, I think he got fourth in the discus from the U.S. He didn't get a medal, but there you go.

00:33:01.000 The size of him, man.

00:33:03.000 You gotta see, the video from the beginning, do the very beginning of the match, because when he's about to, when they're both about to fight, like, even before, like when they're standing in the center of the ring, and the referee says, go, you see him.

00:33:17.000 Oh, this is the second round.

00:33:19.000 He's already tired. 1.00

00:33:20.000 Look at the fucking size of him. 1.00

00:33:22.000 Oh my god, that guy was big. 1.00

00:33:25.000 I'm sorry, so continue.

00:33:27.000 So...

00:33:30.000 I get a call from a guy that I'm working with, a shot putter, who's friends with this, who was on the Olympic team with this discus throw, and he said, hey, they're asking questions.

00:33:38.000 What do we know about this Bauco Laboratories?

00:33:41.000 You know, is there any connection?

00:33:43.000 And, you know, here's what we're trying to figure out.

00:33:45.000 What is this stuff?

00:33:47.000 And so the bottom line is we just switched over, so there was another undetectable that was ready to go.

00:33:54.000 So we just buried that one and brought the second generation out. 1.00

00:33:57.000 Damn, you didn't even slow down? 0.99

00:33:59.000 Didn't even slow down. 1.00

00:34:00.000 Did you just think you were...

00:34:02.000 Did you think that the whole... 0.96

00:34:03.000 Because of knowing that the Olympic Committee had fudged some tests, did you just think the whole thing was bullshit and that you were going to get through it? 0.97

00:34:09.000 I did. 0.95

00:34:11.000 Subconsciously, I had this...

00:34:13.000 I mean, my plan didn't work out.

00:34:18.000 It was...

00:34:19.000 Because I knew this guy that told me all this on the inside was a very credible...

00:34:27.000 He's a Japanese fellow that really had a high level of integrity.

00:34:31.000 He left the whole Olympic track and field movement.

00:34:34.000 He worked thereafter with many famous tennis players, Wimbledon champions, and a whole list of...

00:34:41.000 I worked with a lot of different...

00:34:44.000 Michael Chang, Yvonne Lendl, Greg Raduski, Sharapova, many, many great...

00:34:52.000 He was a trainer.

00:34:54.000 And...

00:34:56.000 My thought was, if they come after me, my get-out-of-jail ticket, so to speak, would be, we'll just subpoena this guy and he can tell what he knows about what everybody's doing.

00:35:07.000 And then I realized that if there was a...

00:35:13.000 If he was subpoenaed and he was under oath, that would be one thing.

00:35:16.000 If there was a congressional committee hearing, that would be another.

00:35:19.000 But I'm not just going to send reporters to his house and destroy this guy's life.

00:35:23.000 And it became better in the case of Balco for me to do this global plea bargain.

00:35:35.000 And the way that all came down was because I knew that they had lied in many of the memorandums It was all sorts of bad stuff that the government had done, and I learned about this and used it in terms of leverage, and literally the way the Bauco case ended is I dictated all the terms and conditions of what I would get and was able to do so for the other guys, like Barry Bonds' trainer, Greg Anderson.

00:36:02.000 And Jim Valenti and Remy Court Chimney.

00:36:04.000 And honest to God, I had seen Martha Stewart.

00:36:09.000 She kind of went in over a holiday period and was in there five months.

00:36:12.000 And I thought, you know what?

00:36:13.000 To be away from my business and do what I need to do, if I can plan this right, I'll just accept four and four.

00:36:19.000 Four months in a minimum security prison and four months of ankle bracelet.

00:36:24.000 And that way I can continue.

00:36:27.000 The VP of Balco got straight probation, so he was able to continue to run my business.

00:36:31.000 I was able to continue to have my income at the same level.

00:36:36.000 And this protected everybody from having to come forward and testify in a trial.

00:36:43.000 So I... What led you to start giving them illegal substances or substances that you knew were cheating?

00:36:50.000 Well, you have to understand, in the beginning, it started with the clear.

00:36:53.000 I didn't consider it to be an illegal substance.

00:36:55.000 Because when the guy said he had this stuff, you didn't think it was illegal?

00:36:58.000 Well, I didn't really know what it was.

00:37:00.000 This guy also introduced pro-hormones.

00:37:04.000 If you remember when Mark McGuire, they found the Sports Illustrated writer, Stephen Wilson, that found it in his locker and everything broke about...

00:37:12.000 This is the guy that introduced Andro to the United States market.

00:37:16.000 So I wasn't sure what it was.

00:37:18.000 I mean, literally, there were three different species and Later, I saw when they tried to smuggle this through customs in Canada, but I'd seen all the bottles.

00:37:29.000 And the first one said, Nor stuff.

00:37:32.000 The second one said, Trend stuff.

00:37:35.000 And the third one said, New stuff.

00:37:37.000 And so you've just given this to people.

00:37:39.000 No, no, no.

00:37:40.000 I took it.

00:37:42.000 Then I did testing.

00:37:43.000 And then you've got to understand that all these athletes that work with me...

00:37:48.000 Routinely, they were on a very short leash, meaning they got a three week on, one week off cycle, and if they didn't come back and have their blood tested so we could monitor liver function, kidney function, cholesterol fractions, and all the rest, that was the end of the supply.

00:38:02.000 So in my mind, I was helping them do what in almost every case they were already doing themselves, only they were buying it out of trunks of cars and dark alleys behind gyms.

00:38:13.000 I owned a fully licensed clinical laboratory where we could do all these testing, and then they would have the opportunity to make more informed decisions, and in most cases they used much lower dosages which were equally if not more effective.

00:38:27.000 At a certain point in time when you were initially working with people and just giving them nutrition and then realizing that some of them were doing steroids, did you just decide that it's an inevitability, it's just a part of sports period, high level sports?

00:38:41.000 Like I say, once I gather this information that everybody's in on it, meaning the Olympic officials are actually covering up positive drug tests at Olympic Games, I had been on the sideline from 92 and for eight years.

00:38:55.000 And just at a certain point, I made that decision.

00:38:59.000 To go down that slippery slope.

00:39:01.000 Now, was it the right decision?

00:39:03.000 Obviously not in many respects.

00:39:05.000 Right.

00:39:05.000 Well, you say you didn't know what it was and you didn't think it was illegal, but as soon as they were looking for it, you changed it.

00:39:11.000 Wow.

00:39:12.000 You knew that there was something that was probably unkosher about it.

00:39:16.000 Well, and this is a rationalization in my mind.

00:39:20.000 I'm helping people do things more safely.

00:39:23.000 I mean, it was wrong.

00:39:25.000 It was all wrong.

00:39:26.000 So let me say that.

00:39:28.000 Because thereafter, once you cross that line, then we started using all sorts of other things.

00:39:36.000 EPO, growth hormone, thyroid, you know.

00:39:40.000 All sorts of stimulants that were undetectable.

00:39:43.000 You know, there was seven or eight or nine different drugs that these athletes were using.

00:39:48.000 Oh, I see.

00:39:49.000 So it was sort of just once it started, the snowball started rolling and then you just started collecting drugs that you were doing.

00:39:56.000 You know, it's the...

00:39:58.000 Everything that works.

00:40:00.000 In the beginning, when I told you that I hired Charlie Francis and he came down for this project, and if you've ever listened to any of the things that he's said, I'm not saying it's right, but it's the use or lose mentality.

00:40:11.000 If you know the other guy's doing it, you feel you've got to do what you've got to do in order to be competitive.

00:40:17.000 And I don't know that I agree with this now, and I've said this myself before, that it's not cheating if everyone's doing it, where it probably is, because it's a level playing field, it's just not the one everyone thought it was.

00:40:28.000 Right.

00:40:28.000 And is that what's going on right now in professional sports?

00:40:34.000 Is it possible to have athletes that you see today in professional sports without performance enhancing drugs?

00:40:41.000 Is it possible just through the natural selection of big athletic people, dating big athletic people, and making big athletic kids?

00:40:49.000 No question there are athletes that have broke world records and won Olympic gold medals and done it naturally.

00:40:56.000 Absolutely that can happen.

00:40:58.000 But those are freaks.

00:41:00.000 They're genetic freaks.

00:41:01.000 There's not that many of them.

00:41:02.000 There's not that many of them.

00:41:04.000 And then there's guys like Armstrong that might be a freak, and it looks like he was doing something.

00:41:10.000 Like, didn't they say Lance Armstrong has an abnormally large heart?

00:41:14.000 You know, like he processes blood better than the average person does, just naturally and genetically?

00:41:20.000 Yeah, but it's like Usain Bolt, and he's got all these gifts.

00:41:24.000 But, you know, I'm highly suspicious that not only he's on drugs, but...

00:41:30.000 Most of the track athletes that are on the Jamaican Island are on drugs.

00:41:34.000 What are they on, if you had to guess?

00:41:36.000 If I had to guess seven or eight different drugs, my sense is that...

00:41:41.000 Well, let me back up and put this in perspective.

00:41:45.000 Have you heard the name Memo Heredia?

00:41:47.000 No.

00:41:49.000 Memo is his nickname.

00:41:50.000 It's actually Angel Heredia.

00:41:53.000 In the Balco case, this is the guy.

00:41:55.000 There were two people.

00:41:57.000 We're at the very top of the food chain.

00:41:59.000 Angel was one of them.

00:42:01.000 He was a discus thrower from Texas A&M, and he was the supplier for Trevor Graham and Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery and the Sprint Capital Group that was in Raleigh, North Carolina, that won a whole bunch of Olympic gold medals and so on.

00:42:19.000 They ended up indicting Trevor, Marion's coach, for lying to a federal agent.

00:42:26.000 This guy came and testified against Trevor, and he got leniency in exchange for that.

00:42:34.000 So he never got any consequence whatsoever.

00:42:36.000 He was the guy making all the money.

00:42:38.000 He was at the top of the food chain.

00:42:39.000 He was the main dealer.

00:42:41.000 Well, he now works with Juan Manuel Marquez, who's fighting Manny Pacquiao next.

00:42:46.000 Yeah, I saw that.

00:42:47.000 I saw that.

00:42:48.000 People were very suspicious.

00:42:49.000 He changed his name, if you remember, all of a sudden.

00:42:51.000 And I'm the one that saw him on HBO 24-7.

00:42:54.000 I said, oh my god, that's Memo.

00:42:55.000 And his real name is Heredia, and all of a sudden it was Angel Hernandez.

00:43:00.000 So he changed his name and thought nobody would recognize him.

00:43:03.000 And so the word is...

00:43:05.000 So you threw him under the bus.

00:43:07.000 ...is that he's working with the Jamaican athletes.

00:43:11.000 He's said as much in UK interviews.

00:43:15.000 I know somebody who saw him after Usain Bolt ran At 969, it did everything they did in Beijing at the Olympics, at the World Championships the following year.

00:43:27.000 So, point is...

00:43:28.000 Is it possible that this guy is just doing it legally now?

00:43:32.000 And that's why none of his people are testing positive?

00:43:34.000 Juan Manuel Marquez?

00:43:36.000 No?

00:43:36.000 Impossible?

00:43:37.000 No, because they don't have any testing.

00:43:38.000 What testing is Juan Manuel Marquez doing?

00:43:40.000 Well, I don't know.

00:43:41.000 I mean, didn't he get tested in Vegas?

00:43:44.000 Well... 1.00

00:43:46.000 That's about tapering off and just, you know, you have to be dumb. 0.99

00:43:49.000 That's IQ testing. 0.99

00:43:50.000 That's not drug testing.

00:43:51.000 I see.

00:43:52.000 So, these, but these Olympic athletes, they're all tested, correct?

00:43:57.000 Well, even that's relatively easy to circumvent.

00:44:00.000 How's that?

00:44:01.000 Well, let's just, okay, you want me to explain exactly how you can beat the testing?

00:44:05.000 Sure.

00:44:05.000 Let's pretend I'm Hussain Bolt.

00:44:07.000 Fucking awesome. 0.99

00:44:08.000 I just won the Olympics. 0.99

00:44:08.000 Okay. 0.99

00:44:09.000 What do you got to do now?

00:44:10.000 Here's the way it works.

00:44:11.000 Here's the way it works.

00:44:12.000 And this is the big loophole.

00:44:14.000 You get two missed tests in any given 18 month period as an Olympic athlete.

00:44:19.000 So it's just like getting a speeding ticket on your driving record.

00:44:24.000 So, here you are, you have a whereabouts for them.

00:44:27.000 You fill it out and you say, I'm going to be at training center X, and you don't go there.

00:44:31.000 You go to training center Y. Well, the odds are, I've calculated about 25 to 1 that they're not going to go to that training center.

00:44:38.000 But even if they do, the worst scenario is, it's like being up to bat in an American baseball game.

00:44:44.000 Strike one, does that mean you're out?

00:44:46.000 They don't disclose that.

00:44:47.000 Nobody gets told that.

00:44:49.000 So if you go and you win the Olympics and you test positive for a steroid, it's just a strike?

00:44:56.000 They just burn?

00:44:56.000 No, I don't mean positive.

00:44:58.000 I'm talking about a missed test.

00:45:01.000 Missed test.

00:45:01.000 A missed test.

00:45:02.000 Okay, like you were supposed to take it, but you didn't show up.

00:45:05.000 You didn't show up.

00:45:06.000 Okay, so that's strike one.

00:45:07.000 Okay, that's strike one.

00:45:08.000 That's the downside.

00:45:09.000 First of all, there's no transparency, so nobody knows.

00:45:12.000 Okay, so you missed the test, but you still have to test, right?

00:45:14.000 That's strike one.

00:45:15.000 Well, no, no, they don't come right back the next day.

00:45:18.000 What they do is they send you a letter and say, hey, you missed this test, show up at this hearing, and you can give us a reasonable explanation or present exceptional circumstances, or you can argue this, or you get the strike.

00:45:30.000 Okay.

00:45:30.000 This is for the Olympics?

00:45:32.000 You can do this?

00:45:33.000 Okay.

00:45:33.000 Then, okay, so you're six months out from the Olympics.

00:45:37.000 You do this two or three times.

00:45:39.000 Maybe they come one time, you get one strike.

00:45:41.000 Then you do it again, and they're really targeting you now, so they come back a second time.

00:45:47.000 And you're not there, and it's strike two.

00:45:50.000 Right?

00:45:51.000 You go to the Olympics, you win the gold medal, you cash in, you get all the endorsement money.

00:45:55.000 Well, the time is rolling.

00:45:57.000 How many days could it possibly be?

00:45:59.000 Well, the whole period of time, you can't have three tests in any given 18-month period.

00:46:05.000 You can have two.

00:46:06.000 Otherwise, they suspend your license.

00:46:08.000 Well, once you've got two missed tests, you cannot take any more chances in terms of using drugs until the oldest missed test falls off your record, just like a ticket on your driving record.

00:46:18.000 Make sense?

00:46:19.000 So when you know that you're positive, you just miss your tests?

00:46:23.000 Yeah, you make yourself unavailable.

00:46:26.000 Jesus Christ.

00:46:27.000 What happened with Marion, no, what's her name?

00:46:30.000 The tennis player.

00:46:32.000 What are the girls' names, the big ones?

00:46:34.000 Serena Williams and the other one.

00:46:36.000 One of them, they came to her house for a random drug test, so she went in her panic room and called the police. 1.00

00:46:43.000 What the fuck, man? 0.99

00:46:44.000 Well, she didn't give a sample. 1.00

00:46:45.000 That's awesome. 1.00

00:46:46.000 What the fuck? 0.99

00:46:47.000 So here's the bottom line. 1.00

00:46:48.000 What happened?

00:46:49.000 Is there any consequence?

00:46:50.000 I don't know.

00:46:51.000 She got a missed test that nobody ever knew about.

00:46:53.000 Possibly.

00:46:54.000 That is a tennis thing.

00:46:55.000 I've never heard of that before.

00:46:57.000 Have you ever heard about that before?

00:46:58.000 Well, this is why they have what they call a whereabouts form.

00:47:01.000 You have to fill these forms out.

00:47:02.000 You can communicate by email, text message.

00:47:04.000 Let them know where you are, and if they decide to show up.

00:47:07.000 But let's put it in perspective.

00:47:10.000 On average...

00:47:12.000 They test about twice a year.

00:47:16.000 Out of competition, meaning they show up unexpected.

00:47:21.000 Now, let's not count the times that they test you at a competition.

00:47:26.000 Let's talk about baseball for a minute.

00:47:28.000 They only test these players twice a year.

00:47:31.000 The first test is at training camp.

00:47:33.000 That's announced testing.

00:47:34.000 That's IQ testing. 1.00

00:47:34.000 How dumb do you have to be to be caught then? 1.00

00:47:37.000 You just know that the taper time is a certain amount. 1.00

00:47:39.000 You go off, you show up, you get your test.

00:47:41.000 Well, if they're not targeting you and they have no reason to target you, Then here's what the guys say.

00:47:48.000 Okay, it's April 1st.

00:47:50.000 By the first week of May, I get my second test.

00:47:53.000 Green light!

00:47:53.000 Let's use all the stuff we like because we already had a second test.

00:47:57.000 So for one month, you play baseball.

00:48:00.000 Well, until you have your mandatory second test.

00:48:02.000 It could be a month.

00:48:03.000 And then you just juice to the walls.

00:48:05.000 Let's look at the statistics here.

00:48:08.000 Most of the gains for Olympic athletes and for NFL and Major League Baseball and professional sports, during the off-season...

00:48:21.000 They load up on all kinds of performance-enhancing drugs, including anabolic steroids, and do intensive weight training for four or five months.

00:48:32.000 And the gains they make, what kind of gains can you make?

00:48:36.000 Tiny Tim, Tim Montgomery that broke the world record with the project world record that I talked about earlier.

00:48:43.000 He, in eight weeks, he came in, he weighed 148. He put on 28 pounds of muscle in eight weeks.

00:48:50.000 His bench press went from 265 to 345. In eight weeks.

00:48:56.000 So a lot can be done in four or five months using powerful drugs.

00:49:00.000 Those gains carry over.

00:49:03.000 So when these athletes are doing all these spectacular things at the Olympic Games, it's not because they're using the drugs at the Olympics or just before the Olympics.

00:49:11.000 They've used them for five months during the off-season.

00:49:15.000 What if we had an all-roid Olympics? 1.00

00:49:18.000 Would it be much different?

00:49:20.000 Well, the surveys show that that's what people really want.

00:49:24.000 Do they really?

00:49:25.000 Yeah, you didn't see that survey?

00:49:26.000 Who's getting surveyed?

00:49:28.000 Who's getting surveyed? 1.00

00:49:29.000 All surveys suck. 1.00

00:49:31.000 Every poll that's ever existed sucks. 1.00

00:49:34.000 Yeah, here was the survey. 0.97

00:49:35.000 And it was before the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens.

00:49:38.000 And the question they asked, it was with Sports Illustrated, they said, would you rather see...

00:49:43.000 A new world record of 9.65, which wouldn't even be the record now, by a guy that you knew was juiced to the gills, or see a guy run 10.20 knowing he's completely clean.

00:49:54.000 70% said, give me the world record.

00:49:57.000 Wow.

00:49:58.000 That's weird.

00:49:59.000 I'd rather see a guy jump like a mile up in the air than like, you know, seven feet.

00:50:03.000 Yeah, like if there was a pill that you could take that actually turned you into the Hulk and you could literally jump a mile into the air like the Hulk could, who wouldn't take that?

00:50:12.000 You'd be crazy not to take that.

00:50:14.000 You don't want to be the Hulk.

00:50:16.000 Really?

00:50:17.000 What's wrong with you?

00:50:18.000 That's not meaning you have to smash everything. 0.99

00:50:20.000 Just knowing you could jump to a fucking, you know, an airplane. 0.99

00:50:25.000 I'd give that pill to David Lee Roth immediately. 0.99

00:50:27.000 You're bulletproof and you can jump up to airplanes.

00:50:30.000 You don't want to do that?

00:50:31.000 Okay. 0.99

00:50:32.000 What the fuck is wrong with you? 1.00

00:50:33.000 It becomes what the fuck is wrong with you. 1.00

00:50:37.000 At any point in time while you're doing this and you're caught up, you know, you're going from being totally natural to working with the clear to all of a sudden you're giving guys EPO and growth and all this different stuff. 0.97

00:50:48.000 Does any point in time go, man, this is not what I set up to do.

00:50:51.000 I just wanted to be in the hunt.

00:50:52.000 I just didn't know the hunt.

00:50:53.000 Was it like you didn't know the hunt was dirty until you got in it?

00:50:56.000 And then once you're in it, you're like, well, this is how you do business.

00:50:58.000 This is how you get down.

00:50:59.000 No, I certainly knew that it was dirty.

00:51:01.000 It was the, you know, that rationale that I told you that I used before of you feel that you've got to do what you need to do in order to be competitive, and it's the use or lose.

00:51:15.000 If you don't use drugs, then, except for this rare freak that you mentioned that can do this without the use of drugs.

00:51:24.000 Well, I know there's a lot of MMA fighters that don't use drugs.

00:51:27.000 They won't use drugs, and they don't use drugs.

00:51:29.000 It may be a small handful of them, but they're very proud of it, like B.J. Penn obviously being one of the most vocal.

00:51:34.000 But there's a lot of guys who just won't.

00:51:39.000 But how many guys do you think are using?

00:51:41.000 My guess is about 50%.

00:51:44.000 50% of MMA athletes or professional athletes?

00:51:46.000 Yes, of MMA. What about professional athletes, period?

00:51:49.000 Depends on the sport.

00:51:50.000 Football.

00:51:52.000 Those jokes are gigantic.

00:51:54.000 Once again, I want to go back and try to put this into perspective.

00:51:59.000 And I'll do it because I know the numbers with baseball, but this would also apply to football.

00:52:04.000 Okay.

00:52:06.000 The Major League Players Union, the Baseball Players Union contract with MLB enables them to test 375 players during the offseason.

00:52:19.000 So that's about 31% of all the players in the league.

00:52:24.000 And this is during the off-season.

00:52:25.000 They've agreed to this.

00:52:27.000 If you go back and look at the last five years of statistics, you see that on average, they only test about 50 players, which is less than 5%.

00:52:36.000 So if those who receive the majority of the financial gain from Major League Baseball and control the drug testing have every right to test these players, or at least 31% or 375 players, why do they test only 50?

00:52:54.000 And they tried to argue this with me, and I know a lot of Major League Baseball players, and I talk to them, and I know that there's a guy that's maybe one of the highest-paid players in the history of the league, and in his entire career, which we won't say exactly, but more than 15-year career, He's only been tested one time during the off-season.

00:53:16.000 They just don't do it.

00:53:18.000 What I'm saying is I believe they lack a genuine interest in catching these athletes.

00:53:23.000 They want to promote this propaganda that they're for clean sport.

00:53:28.000 They're trying to reduce the drugs, but they just don't take their hook and line and pole and throw it in the pond to try to catch the fish when the fish are biting.

00:53:38.000 And why is that?

00:53:39.000 It's bad for business.

00:53:41.000 So it's sort of a charade.

00:53:43.000 They pretend they're trying to clean up the sport, but they have to keep it light, otherwise it'll ruin the game.

00:53:48.000 Because the athletes need it in order to play at that level.

00:53:52.000 Yeah.

00:53:53.000 Now, track and field?

00:53:55.000 What percentage of track and field do you think?

00:53:57.000 Well, that's a history of really being dirty for a very long period of time.

00:54:01.000 I mean, where you can see this, and I'll give you an obvious example.

00:54:06.000 And that is with the women because they typically have about 10% the amount of testosterone compared to a male, so the effects are much greater on a woman than they are on a man.

00:54:16.000 If you go back and look at the women's records in track and field, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1500 meter, 100 hurdles, 400 hurdles, and those seven events, the world and Olympic records are from the 1970s and 80s.

00:54:37.000 You've got faster Mondo tracks now, better spikes, all sorts of additional training equipment, and you would expect them to run faster.

00:54:45.000 At the Olympic Games, the winner runs around 49 seconds in the 400-meter.

00:54:50.000 World record's 4760. I mean, it's like 12 meters faster.

00:54:54.000 If you superimpose these records, From the world and Olympic records compared to what they just did at the Olympic Games, you would see that it's a joke.

00:55:05.000 The world record in the 100 meters is 1049. So they ran whatever it was, 1078 or maybe 1070. The world record in the 200 is 2134. They run whatever it is, 2180. But it's five meters slower 30 years later.

00:55:20.000 So what does that tell you?

00:55:22.000 That obviously these records are tainted.

00:55:27.000 So, and every time these athletes step up to the starting blocks, if you're at a world championship, you're at Olympic Games, you see these records come up.

00:55:36.000 So they're not just competing against the athletes in the lanes next to them, they're competing against these world and Olympic records, which are obviously tainted.

00:55:45.000 And all the women now in track and field complain about this routinely, that listen, we can't get anywhere near these records. 0.96

00:55:51.000 So what does that mean?

00:55:53.000 Wow.

00:55:55.000 So the WWF is the realest sport.

00:55:57.000 Where all this leads is, what are you going to do?

00:55:59.000 Rip up the Olympic track and field record book?

00:56:02.000 Yeah, what are you going to do with the Tour de France?

00:56:04.000 They said that if they take it away from Lance Armstrong and you have to give it to the next runner-up that didn't test positive on a drug test, it would be 27th place.

00:56:15.000 Well, there you go.

00:56:16.000 I don't know if you remember back in 2003, but this was right before Balco was raided, and I was helping a girl named Kelly White, and she won, was the first ever American to win double gold in the 100 and 200 meters.

00:56:31.000 Here's what happened.

00:56:34.000 And she tested positive, and they took the medals away.

00:56:37.000 Well, within a short period of time, the silver medalists tested positive, and the bronze medalists tested positive.

00:56:43.000 Now, in that particular race of the eight girls, I believe that 100% of those girls were all on drugs. 0.91

00:56:52.000 I personally gave five of those girls drugs. 1.00

00:56:54.000 What kind of drugs did you give them? 0.83

00:56:56.000 Besides ecstasy and Viagra?

00:57:00.000 Performance-enhancing drugs.

00:57:01.000 A combination of a lot of different things.

00:57:03.000 EPO, growth hormone, the clear.

00:57:05.000 So they're all on EPO, and EPO essentially simulates what it's like to live at high altitude where your body produces more red blood cells, more complicated?

00:57:13.000 You know, are you going to get the same types of results training at high altitude that you will from using EPO? The answer is no.

00:57:21.000 So EPO is more stronger than that?

00:57:23.000 Much more powerful.

00:57:24.000 Wow.

00:57:25.000 Much more powerful.

00:57:26.000 Like how many times more powerful?

00:57:28.000 Well, let's say that a normal hematocrit is for a female is around 40 and for a male is around 45, 43. And what does hematocrit exactly mean?

00:57:39.000 That's the percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume.

00:57:41.000 So if you look at it and you spin it down in a centrifuge, the top 55% is the plasmor serum it's called.

00:57:49.000 And the bottom 45% is the PAC cells.

00:57:52.000 Now, the word out there was that Lance Armstrong, the target, was about 55%.

00:57:58.000 But I've seen, and another thing you have to understand, is that all anabolic steroids, including the granddaddy of Amal testosterone, significantly increase red blood cell production.

00:58:09.000 Now, I've tested many, many of the top bodybuilders in the history of the sport.

00:58:16.000 And you see guys coming back at 57%, 58%, 59% hematocrit.

00:58:20.000 Very, very thick blood.

00:58:22.000 This is obviously dangerous.

00:58:24.000 Well, most of them are not taking EPO. They get this increase in hematocrit from anabolic steroids.

00:58:31.000 So the antibiotic steroids increase endurance in the same exact way as EPO is capable of doing?

00:58:36.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:58:37.000 Yes.

00:58:38.000 Wow, I didn't know that.

00:58:39.000 But everybody thinks the steroids is actually being bad for your cardio when it comes to fighters because they put up so much muscle mass when they're on steroids and that demands resources.

00:58:47.000 And that means the blood vessels have to travel farther.

00:58:50.000 And the other thing that's bad about that a lot of people don't understand is And of course, track and field, they know this very well, is you are much stronger and much faster off steroids than on steroids.

00:59:06.000 Really?

00:59:07.000 Let me give you an example.

00:59:09.000 This guy, the same Tim Montgomery that I helped at one point to break the world record and become the world's fastest human.

00:59:17.000 He had bought $16,000 worth of drugs early in the year in 2000. He'd run about a little quicker than 10 flat.

00:59:25.000 I think he ran $9.92.

00:59:27.000 And he said, listen, I bought all these drugs.

00:59:30.000 I took all these drugs.

00:59:31.000 I'm running $10.20.

00:59:32.000 I'm two meters slower.

00:59:33.000 What's the deal?

00:59:34.000 I said, Tim, get off.

00:59:37.000 Just go off.

00:59:39.000 They work through cell volumization.

00:59:41.000 They pump you up.

00:59:42.000 They make you tight.

00:59:44.000 They make you slow.

00:59:45.000 I don't understand.

00:59:47.000 They also increase your strength.

00:59:49.000 They increase your strength, but you will maintain that strength every single...

00:59:54.000 For two weeks after you go off, you maintain 100% of the strength, but now you have a normal fluid balance, and your muscles are much more relaxed and much faster.

01:00:04.000 Now, so these are the really hardcore steroids you're talking about, like the ones that people get tested for, like extremely anabolic ones, or basically even regular testosterone?

01:00:14.000 It's all of them.

01:00:14.000 As you know, they're all anabolic androgenic.

01:00:17.000 Some are more one way or than the other.

01:00:18.000 So is it just getting a certain amount of testosterone in your system and that makes everything swell?

01:00:22.000 But you want to get off is the whole point.

01:00:24.000 And a lot of guys don't understand he was trying to run fast while he was on.

01:00:28.000 And so what happened?

01:00:30.000 He followed my advice, he went off, and sure enough, about three weeks later, he ran two meters faster.

01:00:37.000 So it's because he kept the gains of being on the drugs, but then the drugs' negative effects wore off.

01:00:44.000 Which is the tightness, the pump.

01:00:47.000 You're much slower.

01:00:50.000 So I don't care what you're doing, MMA fighting or playing baseball, you would be much quicker by being off instead of on.

01:01:01.000 So you don't perform your best when you're on steroids.

01:01:04.000 Okay, so steroids allow you to perform your best because they build you up so much in training that you almost have supernatural strength, and then when you're off of them, then you perform at your best.

01:01:14.000 That's it.

01:01:15.000 Okay.

01:01:16.000 So it's a complicated sort of a timing situation with fighting, isn't it?

01:01:21.000 They used to say 10-day taper.

01:01:23.000 Can you talk into this a little bit better?

01:01:23.000 They used to say 10-day taper, and I believe, and now I know that there are a number of people that believe the best is a 14-day taper.

01:01:32.000 Now, for MMA fighters, especially since MMA is such a controversial sport as it is, and there's so many instances of guys getting caught with PEDs, it's so commonplace.

01:01:46.000 It's almost like every time the tests come out, all fighters tested for UFC 1X, whatever it is, I cross my fingers. 0.98

01:01:54.000 I'm like, please don't be fucking positive. 0.84

01:01:56.000 Because so many guys test positive, and then you don't see them for a year. 0.98

01:01:59.000 It's like, God, it's annoying.

01:02:01.000 A guy like Overeem, when he tested positive, like, you know the matches we missed out on?

01:02:06.000 Because this guy's got to sit out for a year? 0.99

01:02:08.000 It's fucking, it's crazy. 1.00

01:02:10.000 Bad advice. 1.00

01:02:11.000 Yeah, well, in his situation, absolutely. 0.61

01:02:14.000 But you're working with guys, you're working with Kyle Kingsbury and Nonito Donair, and Nonito Donair looked fucking amazing the other night.

01:02:21.000 Woo! 0.99

01:02:21.000 That kid is dynamite. 0.99

01:02:23.000 He is one of the best players Living boxers right now.

01:02:28.000 Very, very smart boxer.

01:02:29.000 Yeah, you could tell.

01:02:30.000 His timing, his technique, and he's also very aggressive, and I love watching that kid fight.

01:02:36.000 He is fantastic.

01:02:37.000 And you work with him, you work with Kyle Kingsbury, and who else you work with now?

01:02:41.000 Well, I'm Kung Lee.

01:02:44.000 Okay, Kung Lee.

01:02:45.000 There are other top UFC fighters that...

01:02:49.000 That do come to me and that I have tested and provided consultation for.

01:02:53.000 And some of these choose to keep that on the download.

01:02:56.000 Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you.

01:02:57.000 Since MMA is such a controversial sport and you have this crazy past, you're one of the few guys that actually did time for it.

01:03:04.000 What is it like when you approach these guys and have conversations with these guys?

01:03:10.000 Are people reluctant to work with them?

01:03:11.000 Some are very open and forgiving, and I greatly appreciate that opportunity.

01:03:16.000 And others just are afraid of the downside, the stigma that they're going to think they're on steroids.

01:03:22.000 Where in reality, the guys that come to me and the guys that work with me are probably some of the cleanest guys out there. 0.95

01:03:28.000 Kyle Kingsbury is a fucking awesome guy. 0.89

01:03:30.000 It puts a target on their back. 0.99

01:03:33.000 Yeah, a little bit, right?

01:03:34.000 Kyle Kingsbury, what a nice guy that guy is.

01:03:37.000 And what a ballsy guy.

01:03:39.000 I mean, he's only been doing martial arts for a short amount of time.

01:03:41.000 He was essentially like a football player, wasn't he?

01:03:44.000 Yeah.

01:03:44.000 He played football at Arizona.

01:03:46.000 Big fucking super athlete kid. 1.00

01:03:48.000 What a stud. 0.99

01:03:48.000 And he started really learning how to fight in the biggest organization in the world. 0.99

01:03:54.000 It's kind of crazy.

01:03:54.000 He's a very ballsy dude for taking that up.

01:03:57.000 And he's a great fighter. 0.99

01:03:58.000 He's just fucking heart and determination. 0.99

01:04:01.000 He's so tough. 0.99

01:04:02.000 But I mean, he's fighting guys like Glover Teixeira.

01:04:04.000 And Glover has just so many years of training and experience on him.

01:04:08.000 It's It's kind of crazy that Kyle is fighting all these really, really tough guys.

01:04:13.000 He's taken a wild road to mixed martial arts success as a career.

01:04:20.000 He's got a tough road.

01:04:22.000 But he's a great guy.

01:04:23.000 And you work with him and you work with Nonito.

01:04:26.000 What do you do for these guys?

01:04:29.000 Well, the first thing is to test their blood and...

01:04:34.000 See if there's any weak links in the nutritional chain and create a program that will help them to achieve an optimal balance.

01:04:41.000 It's not about megadoses of anything.

01:04:43.000 It's just correcting weak links or depletions and deficiencies.

01:04:48.000 And then secondly, we have athletes wear a memory belt, which collects all sorts of different data, caloric expenditure, VO2 max, ventilation, training load, You wear it while you work out?

01:05:04.000 Yeah.

01:05:05.000 You wear it around your chest.

01:05:06.000 Can you wear away spar?

01:05:07.000 Yeah.

01:05:08.000 Mm-hmm.

01:05:09.000 Jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, everything?

01:05:11.000 It doesn't move or it doesn't move?

01:05:13.000 No, it's even waterproof.

01:05:14.000 Of course, you'd have to wear a shirt over the top of it.

01:05:16.000 Right.

01:05:16.000 But grappling, it may be a problem.

01:05:18.000 But a lot of guys that I work with have this.

01:05:20.000 And then we collect that data and you can graphically display it on a big screen TV that we have in my conference room.

01:05:27.000 And it's an index of their physical fitness.

01:05:31.000 We measure a lot of these parameters that indicate overtraining.

01:05:37.000 I'm just...

01:05:37.000 The first thing I do is...

01:05:40.000 And it seems like most of the boxers and MMA fighters have this two a day, six days a week, and Sundays off.

01:05:49.000 Right.

01:05:50.000 And it's just too much.

01:05:52.000 And what I mean by that is you see...

01:05:58.000 Immune system suppression.

01:06:00.000 Their white blood cell count, normal, say, is about seven, and these guys will go outside the low end of the range at four and down into the threes.

01:06:08.000 This is something we discovered with Kyle early on.

01:06:11.000 He said, listen, you're overtraining.

01:06:13.000 If you keep this up, you're going to end up being sick.

01:06:16.000 So there's no pain, it's just weakness leaving the body?

01:06:22.000 Everybody has a different constitution.

01:06:24.000 What you do for training, what works for you may be completely different than what works for Kyle or Donito or anybody else.

01:06:31.000 So I don't like athletes training more than three days in a row.

01:06:36.000 So typically what I suggest is they train Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays off.

01:06:41.000 When you say off, can you have an active rest day?

01:06:43.000 What if you just drilled technique?

01:06:45.000 Well, a lot of times I'll want them to do ART therapy, active release technologies therapy or tissue massage.

01:06:54.000 But rest and recover and sleep in.

01:06:59.000 And then Friday and Saturday and Sunday.

01:07:01.000 What is this active release you're talking about?

01:07:03.000 Well, it's where they put pressure at the actual point and they move the limb.

01:07:06.000 Instead of massaging, they actually move your arms and your legs.

01:07:09.000 Like a Thai massage type thing?

01:07:10.000 Yeah, this is something that all the top guys, Tiger Woods and A-Rod and all these guys that were going to a guy named Mark Lince, who is in Toronto.

01:07:20.000 He's one of the top ART guys in the country.

01:07:22.000 I met him through Romo.

01:07:23.000 But it's something a lot of people have been trained under Mark.

01:07:26.000 But he works with a lot of the hockey teams.

01:07:28.000 So this is really a lot of the top names are using ART applied technology.

01:07:38.000 Applied release, is that what it's called?

01:07:40.000 Yeah, technology.

01:07:41.000 It's active release technology.

01:07:42.000 Active release technology.

01:07:43.000 And the idea is just to keep everything loose?

01:07:46.000 Like, what is it?

01:07:47.000 And sometimes they even have two people do it on you at the same time.

01:07:50.000 And one will apply the pressure and the other will move the limb.

01:07:53.000 And, of course, it's to open that up and free these toxins that accumulate in various places of the body.

01:07:59.000 Toxins accumulate and that's what it is when you're feeling sore?

01:08:03.000 These are toxins or it's damage to the tissue?

01:08:04.000 No, it's metabolic waste byproducts is specifically what it is.

01:08:08.000 That's what people don't quite understand about the use of EPO. Let's talk about that for a minute.

01:08:16.000 Everybody thinks that it helps to deliver more oxygen molecules to muscle tissue.

01:08:23.000 And it does.

01:08:24.000 But it's a two-way street, meaning once the red blood cell is there and dumping the oxygen, it picks up Lactic acid, ammonia, carbon dioxide, these metabolic waste byproducts, and removes those.

01:08:39.000 So you're delaying the onset, the accumulation of lactic acid.

01:08:43.000 So it really helps with endurance, not because it's just delivering the oxygen, but because it's removing these metabolic waste, which are toxic, byproducts from the system.

01:08:54.000 Interesting.

01:08:56.000 So, these different various drugs, some of them are still not illegal.

01:09:01.000 Is that correct?

01:09:02.000 Isn't EPO still, they don't test for it in certain places?

01:09:06.000 State commissions don't test for it.

01:09:08.000 See, that's my big argument about what these state commissions are doing is they don't test for EPO. Yeah, I read that and I'm like, I heard that's a crazy thing.

01:09:19.000 For growth hormone.

01:09:20.000 They don't test for synthetic testosterone.

01:09:23.000 So when you say, wow, these guys are getting busted all the time, could you imagine if they had effective testing, what would be going on? 1.00

01:09:31.000 So these guys are getting busted because they're dumb. 0.99

01:09:33.000 Is that what it is? 1.00

01:09:34.000 They're doing something dumb. 0.97

01:09:35.000 They're not talking to a guy, a knowledgeable guy, that could sort of read their blood work and tell them beforehand whether or not they're taking the right amount of time off of it. 0.98

01:09:45.000 Is that what it is?

01:09:46.000 Let's talk about a specific case to illustrate what you just said.

01:09:49.000 Okay.

01:09:50.000 Lamont Peterson, the boxer that tested positive for synthetic testosterone.

01:09:55.000 Yes.

01:09:55.000 You work with him, correct?

01:09:57.000 No.

01:09:57.000 You don't?

01:09:58.000 No.

01:09:58.000 But Vada, the group that does testing, is the one that busted him for synthetic testosterone.

01:10:03.000 But here's what happened.

01:10:05.000 He went to a doctor in Las Vegas.

01:10:08.000 And his total testosterone was 563, perfectly normal.

01:10:13.000 Low under the ranges, depending upon lab, it varies lab to lab at like 250 to 300. So he's at 563, perfectly normal.

01:10:21.000 They found his free testosterone, the active portion that binds to the androgen receptor, was a little bit low.

01:10:28.000 Well, that could have been, you know, he was overtrained and all he needed was a few days of rest.

01:10:33.000 But this doctor told him Let's just put this testosterone pellet in you. 0.99

01:10:41.000 So they made a little surgical incision, inserted a pellet.

01:10:45.000 This pellet time releases about seven milligrams a day, which is about your body's normal production.

01:10:52.000 And you don't even need a stitch.

01:10:54.000 They just put a little butterfly over it.

01:10:56.000 So he fights Amir Khan for the world title, and they test him, and he's negative.

01:11:03.000 Now, in Nevada, in New York, in Washington, D.C., they used a 6 to 1 T.E. ratio.

01:11:11.000 So he was well below that.

01:11:13.000 There was no issues.

01:11:14.000 As soon as he enrolled in Nevada testing, where this is what they do that's different than other testing associations, is every single sample they use, the CIR, carbon isotope ratio testing, Which can differentiate between endogenous production and exogenous testosterone, whether it be patch, cream, clear, injection.

01:11:37.000 So his TE ratio came back at 3.77 to 1. Well, even the highest Olympic standard is 4 to 1. He's negative.

01:11:48.000 But if you use this more sophisticated technology, he came back and they identified that he had synthetic testosterone in his system. 0.99

01:11:57.000 And of course, later it came out, oh, by the way, I've got this pellet in my butt, and here's the reason. 0.96

01:12:02.000 Now, I was told by somebody that I know that referred him to a doctor. 0.99

01:12:08.000 It has to be a doctor. 0.99

01:12:09.000 That said, don't be surprised if there's a hundred boxers out there that have these pellets in their butt. 1.00

01:12:15.000 Now this pellet thing is a new thing. 0.97

01:12:17.000 I just heard about this.

01:12:18.000 Testapel.

01:12:19.000 Yeah, the first time I heard about it was a couple of months ago.

01:12:21.000 And I thought someone was joking with me.

01:12:23.000 No.

01:12:23.000 They insert a bunch of pellets in them and they slowly dissolve.

01:12:27.000 And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? 0.99

01:12:28.000 They're time released. 0.99

01:12:29.000 And typically you have to replace the pellet every five months. 0.99

01:12:32.000 And he's like, I can feel it in my butt. 0.97

01:12:33.000 I was like, what are you doing? 0.99

01:12:35.000 Can you get bigger ones if you wanted one?

01:12:37.000 Well, they have different doses.

01:12:38.000 Gopher-sized.

01:12:39.000 They do have different maximum strength.

01:12:41.000 200 milligram through 800 milligram.

01:12:44.000 Oh, really?

01:12:44.000 Interesting.

01:12:45.000 Now, what do you think about testosterone replacement for professional athletes?

01:12:49.000 It's a very controversial subject, and one of the reasons is there's guys that are in their 20s that are on it.

01:12:55.000 Well, let's talk about that for a minute, and I want to try to shed some new light on that.

01:13:01.000 Okay.

01:13:02.000 Because I've heard a lot of arguments.

01:13:03.000 I watched a little bit of your segment with Chael Sonnen.

01:13:07.000 He said, it's legal, it's legal.

01:13:09.000 We should be able to do this and so on.

01:13:13.000 I don't think he's right.

01:13:15.000 He obviously was suspended in the state of California.

01:13:19.000 Whatever he did wasn't, not only was it not legal, I guess now if he's using it and he's regulated by the state that he fights in and he's got a therapeutic use exemption, it is legal.

01:13:30.000 Yeah.

01:13:31.000 Okay?

01:13:32.000 But I know when he was suspended it was not when he fought Sylvan in the state of California.

01:13:36.000 But here's something that I want to talk about for just a minute.

01:13:40.000 With anabolic steroids, every single steroid, the test is qualitative.

01:13:48.000 It's not quantitative.

01:13:50.000 Meaning you can't have a certain amount, and it's okay, like caffeine, but if you have too much, there's an allowable limit.

01:13:58.000 So if you've got a microscopic part per trillion, and it's even there and it can be identified, that's it.

01:14:06.000 You're banned.

01:14:06.000 It's a prohibited substance.

01:14:08.000 Well, in the case of TRT, When you're talking about, and they use the word bioidentical, that's a very misleading term.

01:14:17.000 Because that's what this doctor told Lamont Peterson.

01:14:20.000 Well, it's bioidentical.

01:14:21.000 It won't cause a positive test.

01:14:23.000 You can take this stuff.

01:14:24.000 He has no clue what he's talking about.

01:14:28.000 The background is this.

01:14:30.000 Your body makes testosterone out of cholesterol.

01:14:35.000 All forms, injectable patches, creams, clear patches, whatever it is, The delivery system.

01:14:42.000 It's either made out of soy-based plant or yam.

01:14:47.000 So they use a test, this carbon isotope ratio test, where they look at what they call the C13-C12 ratio.

01:14:54.000 And they can differentiate between Endogenous and exogenous.

01:15:00.000 Your body produced it or it's coming from outside.

01:15:03.000 And you're either positive or you're not, right?

01:15:06.000 So if it's even there and your body didn't produce it for all anabolic steroids, you're suspended.

01:15:13.000 It's the same thing with TRT. It's a foreign substance.

01:15:18.000 Your body didn't make it.

01:15:19.000 It's coming from outside.

01:15:21.000 Make sense?

01:15:22.000 So it's not about being quantitative, meaning, well, you can have only a certain amount in your urine, and I want to talk about this for a minute, of up to four to one.

01:15:31.000 That's not true.

01:15:33.000 If the testers use this carbon isotope ratio test, and I'm going to give you a specific example.

01:15:38.000 In 2006, Justin Gatlin, who won the gold medal in 2004 in the 100 meters, somebody dropped a dime on him.

01:15:47.000 And they said, this guy is using testosterone.

01:15:50.000 So they went to him.

01:15:53.000 Based on this intelligence, collected a sample, and it came back his TE ratio was.5 to 1. It was lower than 1 to 1. Yet, with carbon isotope ratio, they found out this guy used this exogenous form of testosterone, and they banned him.

01:16:12.000 Does this make sense?

01:16:13.000 Yeah, I understand that, but that's the Olympics.

01:16:14.000 The Nevada State Athletic Commission allows for testosterone replacement.

01:16:18.000 What is wrong with that?

01:16:19.000 With a therapeutic use exemption.

01:16:20.000 Right.

01:16:21.000 But with a therapeutic use exemption, if they go to them, the doctor says, hey, this guy's got low testosterone.

01:16:27.000 There's a bunch of fighters that are operating under that now.

01:16:28.000 It's not unique.

01:16:30.000 So that's not the Olympics.

01:16:32.000 You're talking about these guys are doing...

01:16:33.000 No, he is the Olympics.

01:16:34.000 You're talking about MMA or boxing and the state commission now.

01:16:38.000 I'm talking about this.

01:16:38.000 I'm talking about fighters.

01:16:40.000 If they have an exemption, then it's legal, like Chael says.

01:16:44.000 Right.

01:16:44.000 So even though it's not produced by your body, even though it is a foreign substance...

01:16:50.000 Then if they had a prescription, they could use any other one of the available Trembolone or Primabolin or Parabolin or any other steroid if a doctor said you can use this and you could get a therapeutic use exemption and use it.

01:17:04.000 Could you?

01:17:05.000 Sure.

01:17:07.000 Can you get a therapeutic use exemption for steroids or can you only get a therapeutic use exemption for testosterone replacement?

01:17:13.000 It seems like it's only replacing what actually exists.

01:17:17.000 You can get it for any drug that it's medically indicated for.

01:17:20.000 So do they give AIDS patients for wasting syndrome?

01:17:24.000 Do they give them other sorts of steroids for medical need?

01:17:26.000 The answer is yes.

01:17:27.000 Well, hyperactive people can't even take Ritalin.

01:17:32.000 Like you can't take, what is the one that everybody loves?

01:17:36.000 Adderall.

01:17:37.000 Adderall.

01:17:37.000 That Adderall stuff.

01:17:39.000 Apparently there's something called Provigil.

01:17:41.000 Do you know what that is?

01:17:42.000 It's Provigil.

01:17:43.000 Provigil, yeah.

01:17:44.000 That's Modafinil.

01:17:45.000 That's what I got busted for.

01:17:47.000 Did you really?

01:17:48.000 When?

01:17:48.000 I was the first guy that was giving that to world-class athletes.

01:17:51.000 You were giving that stuff for?

01:17:53.000 Yeah, that's what they give to fighter pilots and helicopter pilots, and they use it in the military.

01:17:58.000 That's the first positive test that came down associated with me, was Kelly White with ProVigil in 2003. Provigil is what Dave Asprey takes.

01:18:06.000 He didn't tell us that.

01:18:07.000 Yeah, it's called a wakefulness promoting agent.

01:18:09.000 That crazy bulletproof exec guy?

01:18:11.000 Yeah.

01:18:11.000 That guy takes Provigil.

01:18:12.000 He takes it like every day.

01:18:13.000 There's a whole video of him promoting it and they make him not take it for a couple days and he's talking about how cloudy he is and then he takes it and he works 20 hours a day.

01:18:21.000 There's a little more to his story than what he was telling us.

01:18:23.000 I feel like he left that out.

01:18:26.000 Yeah, that's pretty important.

01:18:28.000 That is pretty important.

01:18:29.000 So it's like a form of kind of like an Adderall?

01:18:31.000 Is that what it is?

01:18:32.000 Yes.

01:18:33.000 I don't know if it's more intense.

01:18:35.000 I just think it's different.

01:18:36.000 Well, if the government's involved, it's probably more intense.

01:18:40.000 Well, I think everybody...

01:18:41.000 The argument was that a lot of Silicon Valley execs are high on this stuff all day long.

01:18:47.000 And college students.

01:18:48.000 College students.

01:18:49.000 Yeah, there was an article that said how many Silicon Valley execs or hop up on Provigil, that's how you say it?

01:18:54.000 Provigil.

01:18:55.000 Provigil. 1.00

01:18:55.000 Apparently it's the fucking drug of choice. 1.00

01:18:57.000 He totally didn't tell us about that. 1.00

01:18:59.000 He's like, I'm eating yak meat and shit. 1.00

01:19:00.000 Like, how about the fact you're on fucking speed? 1.00

01:19:03.000 You gotta eat cat hair every day. 0.99

01:19:05.000 He was talking to us about all these great things, and I really believe him about all those great things, but I think the speed helps him too.

01:19:13.000 Yeah, that's probably the number one thing. 1.00

01:19:15.000 You're on top of shit because you're on fucking speed, man. 1.00

01:19:20.000 But awesome speed are here. 1.00

01:19:21.000 The difference with Olympic caliber testing and what the Nevada State Athletic Commission is doing, giving these guys these TRTs, is it's a completely different standard.

01:19:31.000 I mean, I don't think any of these guys, the six or whatever it is, MMA fighters that have these therapeutic use exemptions for testosterone in Nevada.

01:19:40.000 There's quite a few.

01:19:41.000 There's a lot now.

01:19:42.000 Whatever it is.

01:19:45.000 The number in Olympic sport for, who knows, 100,000 athletes.

01:19:53.000 There's 10,000, 11,000 that compete at the Olympics.

01:19:56.000 The total in that group is something like 24,000.

01:20:01.000 You've already got 10 out of 375 guys in the UFC. Yeah, but you also have to deal with the fact that these guys are getting a lot of head trauma.

01:20:12.000 Head trauma reduces your body's ability to produce testosterone.

01:20:15.000 I agree that that's certainly a factor.

01:20:17.000 Yeah, that's sort of an unknown factor.

01:20:22.000 That's one of the reasons for depression in a lot of athletes that have gotten a lot of head trauma.

01:20:27.000 The pituitary gland is apparently very sensitive. 0.97

01:20:30.000 It doesn't like getting knocked the fuck out.

01:20:32.000 If it happens a few times, it can get damaged and it can stop your ability to produce hormones at a regular rate. 0.63

01:20:40.000 And if it's a proper medical diagnosis, which takes about four months to be properly done, not One test, and hey, everything looks good, and get the prescription.

01:20:56.000 I mean, there's all sorts of things that if you wanted to manipulate the system, you use steroids, it suppresses your endogenous production, you get a low reading, and you get a script.

01:21:04.000 Yes, that's common knowledge.

01:21:06.000 It's very easy to trick the system.

01:21:09.000 If the standard is very low, like it is in Nevada.

01:21:12.000 And also, the ethical way to treat a patient would be to try to address their nutrition and minerals and vitamins first, before you would introduce some sort of...

01:21:21.000 What is it?

01:21:22.000 Exogenous?

01:21:23.000 How do you say it?

01:21:24.000 Exogenous.

01:21:25.000 Before you introduce a foreign form of hormones.

01:21:28.000 Well, that's exactly what I said about Lamont Peterson.

01:21:31.000 One test, and he put the pellet in.

01:21:35.000 Rest the guy for a week and come back and take a second measurement.

01:21:38.000 Make sure before you do this procedure.

01:21:40.000 And it's just, you know, wham, bam, and then they're in, and it is what it is, and it's something that I'm not sure it may or may not be medically indicated in each one of these cases where these guys are being granted these exemptions.

01:21:57.000 The issue sort of gets to a point where the door's already open.

01:22:02.000 So now what?

01:22:03.000 It's like when you got Chael Sonnen and Dan Henderson.

01:22:06.000 These are the vocal ones who have talked openly about it.

01:22:10.000 And it's quite a few other guys.

01:22:12.000 Forrest Griffin was just on it for his last fight.

01:22:15.000 And it becomes one of those issues where you're like, okay, at what point in time do we take a look at this?

01:22:21.000 Because one of two things is going on, right?

01:22:23.000 These guys are in their 30s.

01:22:24.000 They need testosterone. 0.99

01:22:25.000 So it's either they're taking damage and the damage is messing up their body.

01:22:29.000 And if that's the case, should they really be competing in combat sports?

01:22:33.000 And if the only way for them to compete at their own best level in combat sports is to take hormones, it might be time to stop competing in combat sports.

01:22:43.000 I mean, if you want to live the rest of your life and take...

01:22:46.000 Synthetic hormones and feel better because you take them.

01:22:49.000 That's one thing.

01:22:50.000 But maybe you shouldn't be getting hit in the head anymore, too.

01:22:53.000 And someone needs to say that at a certain point in time.

01:22:55.000 Or maybe there should be a master's category over a certain age.

01:22:57.000 Well, there should be a reason.

01:22:59.000 Why is a 25-year-old man on testosterone?

01:23:02.000 What's going on?

01:23:04.000 There's got to be a reason. 1.00

01:23:06.000 And it can't simply be that he took testosterone for a while and fucked up his balls. 1.00

01:23:11.000 Because that seems to me... 1.00

01:23:13.000 That's a mess.

01:23:16.000 If you do that...

01:23:18.000 I'm not saying that you should never be able to compete anymore.

01:23:20.000 But I'm kind of saying that.

01:23:22.000 Because you're going to always have a level that's constant and consistent and artificial.

01:23:27.000 And it has nothing to do with how you're taking care of your body.

01:23:31.000 It has to do with what you're sticking in a CC. What you're sticking in a needle.

01:23:35.000 That gets a little weird.

01:23:37.000 And when they argue about, well, it's the standard deviation, I hear Keith Kaiser talk about, well, I'm worried about this guy, this one out of 500 or one out of 1,000 that may have this level.

01:23:49.000 How about all the other guys that are competing against guys that may have a competitive advantage because they've hoodwinked the system to get a competitive edge by using testosterone?

01:24:00.000 How about giving vision checks to those people that you have for judges?

01:24:03.000 How about that?

01:24:04.000 How about asking them, what's a triangle look like?

01:24:06.000 Can you show me on somebody what a triangle looks like?

01:24:08.000 And is he okay here or is he in trouble?

01:24:10.000 What's going on here?

01:24:10.000 This is a choke or is this not a choke?

01:24:12.000 Is this guy about to tap or is this nothing? 0.99

01:24:15.000 Do you even fucking know? 0.97

01:24:17.000 There's some of the scorecards that come in and you just go, how is that even possible? 0.99

01:24:21.000 That in the Super Bowl of MMA, at the top of the peak, these athletic commissions are providing these judges.

01:24:28.000 And they're providing them over and over again.

01:24:30.000 And the same ones make terrible decisions after terrible decisions. 1.00

01:24:34.000 They need to clean up a lot of that shit. 1.00

01:24:36.000 I agree. 1.00

01:24:37.000 It drives me fucking crazy. 0.97

01:24:39.000 When I see a guy fight his heart out and I see a bad decision, that drives me nuts, man. 0.98

01:24:44.000 That is a sad, sad thing to see.

01:24:46.000 To see incompetence.

01:24:48.000 And nonsense cost someone a victory. 0.99

01:24:50.000 And you see that look of their face like, I know I fucking beat that guy. 0.98

01:24:53.000 And then you go over to watch the tape, but maybe I was biased. 0.97

01:24:56.000 Maybe I was there.

01:24:57.000 Maybe I was looking at it the wrong way.

01:24:59.000 Let me watch it again.

01:25:00.000 And you watch it again. 1.00

01:25:01.000 It's like, who the fuck was... 1.00

01:25:04.000 It doesn't even make any sense. 0.99

01:25:05.000 See, in a word, what you just said about all of the above is, it's a mess.

01:25:10.000 Yeah, everything's a mess, right?

01:25:12.000 Politics are a mess.

01:25:13.000 This is a mess.

01:25:13.000 The Olympics are a mess.

01:25:15.000 All of it's a mess.

01:25:16.000 So what you do with these guys like Kyle Kingsbury and Nonito Donair is you keep them on the straight and narrow with the best possible legal ways of helping your body.

01:25:28.000 Yes.

01:25:30.000 What is ZMA? ZMA is your zinc, magnesium, what else is in there?

01:25:35.000 Yeah, it's zinc, magnesium, and vitamin B6 and its specific forms of zinc and magnesium that are very bioavailable.

01:25:43.000 It's actually the very first product that was introduced to the sports nutrition market to specifically enhance sleep efficiency and a product that you take at night before you go to bed.

01:25:55.000 And it boosts testosterone too, doesn't it?

01:25:57.000 Well, a number of things happen.

01:26:00.000 During sleep, the first time that you go through about three cycles of five stages.

01:26:10.000 And when you get to, it looks like three U's in a row.

01:26:13.000 So when you get to the bottom of this, it's called delta or slow wave or stage three, stage four sleep.

01:26:20.000 The first time that you go into this very deep sleep where your heart rate is significantly reduced, 70% of your body's daily output of growth hormone is released in a single burst, this mass that they can measure.

01:26:37.000 And there's all sorts of things that light, sound, temperature that can affect you not going into a very deep sleep.

01:26:46.000 So that's one of the things is to target relaxing the body with magnesium and getting you into a very deep and restful sleep.

01:26:53.000 And a little bit of B6 is to Double the absorption of both the zinc and magnesium.

01:26:59.000 So the first half of sleep is when most of your daily output of growth hormone is released.

01:27:05.000 The second four hours is when your system produces testosterone.

01:27:09.000 So this is why guys wake up with a woody.

01:27:12.000 Your testosterone level is double in the morning compared to what it is in the evening.

01:27:18.000 So I realized that when do you maximize tissue repair, healing, recovery, regeneration?

01:27:25.000 And that's at night when you're sleeping.

01:27:28.000 So that's why I put together that formula.

01:27:31.000 And it was instantly a very huge success, selling hundreds of thousands of bottles a month.

01:27:36.000 And now there's over 130 companies selling it worldwide.

01:27:39.000 It's everywhere.

01:27:41.000 I've taken that.

01:27:42.000 There was no competition.

01:27:44.000 You had pre-workout, post-workout, meal replacements, diet supplements, but not a sleep product.

01:27:50.000 So when it got introduced, it became very successful and continues to be very successful.

01:27:56.000 Have you heard of sequitropin?

01:27:57.000 Um...

01:27:58.000 It's a new liposomal growth hormone replacement.

01:28:02.000 You spray it on your tongue, it's arginine, all these different...

01:28:06.000 You think it works?

01:28:07.000 I don't know.

01:28:07.000 I don't think it does.

01:28:08.000 No, I think this one actually has tests behind it.

01:28:10.000 It's by a doctor, Dr. Mark Gordon.

01:28:13.000 He's the guy that was famous for working with James Toney and a bunch of other athletes.

01:28:17.000 He works with a lot of soldiers that have traumatic brain injury.

01:28:20.000 If the basis is arginine, the original studies where they showed the connection between arginine and growth hormone levels was an Italian study, but to get any increase in growth hormone took 17 grams or 17,000 milligrams of arginine.

01:28:39.000 You'd have to take a whole bottle.

01:28:42.000 Yeah, no.

01:28:43.000 There's something about the way they've made a liposomal delivery.

01:28:50.000 Something about the way they've used frequency to seal.

01:28:53.000 Sublingual, basically.

01:28:54.000 Yeah, but the way they've managed to make the molecule smaller by some sort of a process.

01:29:00.000 It was explained to me by a guy way fucking smarter than me, but because of the fact that it fits into your blood cells, That in this liposomal delivery that it actually is effective, supposedly.

01:29:11.000 But it's a bunch of amino acids and other different things that they've shown in clinical tests of over 11 different years of a bunch of various tests that it's effective. 0.95

01:29:21.000 Do you need a prescription for your boner cream?

01:29:23.000 You have boner cream?

01:29:24.000 I mean, steroid cream?

01:29:25.000 He doesn't have it anymore, man.

01:29:27.000 ZMA is not a boner cream.

01:29:28.000 No, the stuff that you put on at night.

01:29:31.000 ZMA is a zinc magnesium.

01:29:33.000 It's pills.

01:29:33.000 We have two forms.

01:29:35.000 It's capsule as well.

01:29:36.000 No, we have a powdered drink.

01:29:38.000 Oh, okay.

01:29:39.000 You can't.

01:29:40.000 Because if you had a cream, Brian would beat off with it.

01:29:42.000 Why did I think it was a cream?

01:29:44.000 Why did you think it was a cream?

01:29:44.000 I don't know.

01:29:45.000 He said boner. 0.87

01:29:45.000 Well, it's minerals, right? 0.87

01:29:47.000 Or amino acids, right?

01:29:48.000 No, it's minerals.

01:29:50.000 And it does have methionine and some amino acids in it, yes.

01:29:53.000 Aspartic acid, it does.

01:29:54.000 And arginine is good to take at night, too, right?

01:29:56.000 Isn't it?

01:29:57.000 There's a lot of things that you should take at night that are really, you know, I'm a big fan of casein micellar protein to take at night.

01:30:05.000 There's other better forms like whey protein isolates that have a higher rate of protein synthesis to take immediately after you work out.

01:30:13.000 But when you're sleeping, you need a type that will bring that positive nitrogen balance for a longer period of time where whey protein isolates, the effect is about three hours, the casein micellar is about seven hours.

01:30:25.000 Is that why people take cottage cheese at night too?

01:30:29.000 Because it takes a long time to digest?

01:30:31.000 So it gives you a slow burn protein?

01:30:35.000 And do you make athletes wake up to take protein? 1.00

01:30:38.000 Or is that bullshit? 0.99

01:30:39.000 You mean in the middle of the night? 1.00

01:30:40.000 Yeah, I hear that.

01:30:41.000 Well, fanatical bodybuilders wake up in the middle of the night to do an injection of growth hormone.

01:30:47.000 Jesus Christ.

01:30:48.000 I didn't mean that.

01:30:49.000 I meant, did they get up in the middle of the night and drink a shake?

01:30:51.000 I've heard like, what's that chick's name that was in that movie, Million Dollar Baby? 1.00

01:30:55.000 She got all yoked. 1.00

01:30:57.000 Hillary Swank.

01:30:59.000 I always thought she was hot. 1.00

01:31:00.000 A lot of people think she's kind of manly. 1.00

01:31:02.000 I think you're fucking crazy. 1.00

01:31:04.000 She looks buck wild to me. 1.00

01:31:05.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:31:06.000 Victor!

01:31:06.000 But anyway, she got real yoked when she was in that movie.

01:31:10.000 And she said that she had to get up in the middle of the night and drink protein shakes.

01:31:13.000 You know, one of the other very important things that I think people overlook is hydration.

01:31:21.000 Right.

01:31:21.000 I see a lot of guys, MMA fighters, that just are dehydrated.

01:31:27.000 And they just don't...

01:31:29.000 They don't drink adequate fluids.

01:31:33.000 I don't know if I should talk about a specific guy, but there's a high-level MMA guy that just was having all sorts of issues with his training and performance, and he was dried up like a prune.

01:31:44.000 Who is it?

01:31:44.000 Josh Thompson.

01:31:46.000 Really?

01:31:47.000 Wow. 0.97

01:31:48.000 Well, he looked fucking tremendous in his last fight. 0.67

01:31:50.000 Did you work with him? 0.76

01:31:52.000 Yes.

01:31:53.000 Well, it makes sense, because he's like one of those wrestler dudes that would probably overtrain a little bit and wind up dehydrated and just kind of suck it up and keep going.

01:32:01.000 But he...

01:32:04.000 Apparently his wife helps him, and whatever time it is he goes to train, she gets up and takes the bottles of water and puts numbers on them, and by the time she gets home, he better have been drinking the sixth one before he goes on.

01:32:15.000 But he's drinking about 10, 16-ounce bottles of water a day now, where before he just...

01:32:20.000 Whenever he was thirsty or he didn't even really think about it.

01:32:23.000 And through the testing, we were able to determine that he was just very dehydrated.

01:32:27.000 And just that one simple piece of information and change, according to Javier Mendez, his coach, made a huge difference in his training and performance.

01:32:38.000 Yeah, I found out that I was dehydrated once by taking one of those body fat tests where you stand on something.

01:32:46.000 I had taken one recently and it registered me 3 or 4% higher in body fat than I knew I was.

01:32:52.000 I was like, that's crazy.

01:32:53.000 I go, that seems weird.

01:32:54.000 Is it not that accurate?

01:32:56.000 He's like, the only time it's inaccurate is if you're dehydrated.

01:32:59.000 And I was like, oh, I'm dehydrated.

01:33:01.000 And so I started drinking water again.

01:33:04.000 I drank water, took it again, and my body fat was 4% lower.

01:33:08.000 It was like it reads an electrical frequency through your body, and when there's no water in your body, it's not firing as good.

01:33:16.000 It's more resistance.

01:33:17.000 And so your whole body operates with more resistance.

01:33:21.000 It has less energy.

01:33:23.000 It literally has less electricity pulsing through it.

01:33:26.000 Yeah.

01:33:27.000 Let me tell you one of the things that I have these MMA fighters and boxers do.

01:33:33.000 A lot of times they have to cut, obviously, to make weight.

01:33:39.000 And there's a number of things involved there.

01:33:41.000 But when it comes time after the weigh-in to hyperhydrate, I have them take Celtic sea salt.

01:33:49.000 And a quarter teaspoon and 16 ounces of water, and drink at least two before they shift over to Cytomax or Pedialyte or some other form of electrolyte replacement.

01:34:01.000 Two teaspoons of the salt?

01:34:03.000 No, quarter teaspoons, which would have about 500-600 milligrams of sodium.

01:34:10.000 So all in all, half a teaspoon and two glasses of water.

01:34:13.000 That's right.

01:34:14.000 Would be the first thing after the weigh-in.

01:34:16.000 That was one of the things that Dave Asprey had said that he does every morning.

01:34:20.000 He said that people are missing out on that.

01:34:21.000 And the reason, a lot of people don't realize this, but seawater has almost the identical concentration of minerals and trace elements as the fluid portion in your blood called serum or plasma.

01:34:36.000 So by far the highest concentration of any mineral or element is sodium at about 3,000 parts per million.

01:34:45.000 But you also have calcium at about 100 parts, potassium and phosphorus at about 150 parts.

01:34:51.000 These other trace elements are very important.

01:34:54.000 So when it comes time to replete and come back up, you want to have the exact same ratio of all these minerals and trace elements in your system first, and of course the sodium is what causes the retention.

01:35:06.000 I have guys do this before they fight as well, because you'll retain throughout the course of a fight The amount of fluid that you retain is much greater if you sodium load.

01:35:18.000 What a tricky, tricky fucking thing it is that everybody is like 90 plus whatever it is, percent water.

01:35:24.000 What percentage is it? 0.98

01:35:25.000 Probably 70. We live next to the ocean and we can't even drink that shit. 1.00

01:35:30.000 Isn't that fucked up? 1.00

01:35:31.000 You can't even drink it. 1.00

01:35:34.000 Nature's like, you know what?

01:35:35.000 We've got to make it way harder for you to get water. 0.61

01:35:37.000 If we let you guys drink all this water, there'd be no ocean.

01:35:40.000 If humans could drink all the water, we'd just suck it right out.

01:35:43.000 And then secondly, what a lot of people don't realize is that Your skin is the largest organ in your body.

01:35:51.000 So I have guys take baths after the weigh-in, but not hot baths because it's thermogenic.

01:35:58.000 It would go out.

01:35:59.000 They do that to cut, but room temperature baths for 10 minutes And their water, their system soaks water like a sponge right through their skin.

01:36:08.000 And Epsom salts is an excellent source of magnesium.

01:36:11.000 You absorb magnesium through your skin through Epsom salt baths.

01:36:15.000 That's why people have always, you know, like people say, oh, you take an Epsom salt bath. 0.99

01:36:18.000 Like, what the fuck is that going to do for you? 1.00

01:36:19.000 You know, it sounds like stupid. 1.00

01:36:21.000 But then you realize that your skin actually absorbs the magnesium from that. 1.00

01:36:25.000 Absolutely.

01:36:25.000 Which is very important for muscle relaxation.

01:36:28.000 You know people that drink...

01:36:29.000 Epsom salt.

01:36:30.000 Yeah, that's only just to blow it out.

01:36:32.000 Like, if you've got a problem, man, that will blow it out.

01:36:36.000 Your system just goes, release the ounce!

01:36:38.000 That's how all the girls in L.A. stay fit. 1.00

01:36:40.000 Yeah, you'll find pieces of your furniture that you didn't know you ate flying out of your ass into the toilet. 0.99

01:36:48.000 You'd be surprised, these basic things we're talking about, the guys at the very top. 0.99

01:36:52.000 Like Josh is an example.

01:36:55.000 He's a small guy, but just trained like crazy and said, listen, we found something here that could be very important.

01:37:03.000 His last fight with Gilbert Melendez, he looked sensational.

01:37:06.000 If you can attribute that to you figuring out that he was dehydrated, that's amazing. 0.67

01:37:11.000 I know that they've had fights before, and Gil's a fucking super tough guy, and that was the best Josh had ever looked against him. 0.92

01:37:19.000 He looked sensational. 0.94

01:37:20.000 Just a great fight.

01:37:22.000 It was one of those fights where you're kind of sad that anybody won.

01:37:25.000 It was such a close fight.

01:37:28.000 I'm certainly not a judge, but I thought Josh didn't.

01:37:31.000 I thought he could have won easily.

01:37:34.000 He had a lot of those sweet takedowns, too, where he was sort of chokeslamming them, tripping them.

01:37:41.000 He just looked great.

01:37:42.000 He had great endurance, fought well on his feet.

01:37:45.000 Great fight. 0.99

01:37:46.000 Melendez is fucking awesome. 0.97

01:37:47.000 I love watching that guy fight. 0.98

01:37:48.000 Imagine the effect.

01:37:49.000 If we're talking about the red blood cells are delivering oxygen and removing...

01:37:55.000 These metabolic waste byproducts with every breath.

01:37:58.000 Well, if you're well hydrated, it's like having an eight-lane freeway and all of a sudden you get dehydrated and now you've got a three-lane freeway.

01:38:04.000 It's a lot more difficult to deliver and pick up and remove when you're not well hydrated.

01:38:10.000 So the sodium and carbohydrate and other things that can help, you know, you will sweat less, you will retain the fluids, it will tremendously improve your stamina and endurance.

01:38:20.000 Sodium.

01:38:21.000 Sodium and carbs.

01:38:23.000 People have always told you all your life, keep away from salt.

01:38:26.000 Sodium's bad.

01:38:27.000 Sodium makes you retain water and get fat and have heart attacks.

01:38:30.000 Isn't that funny?

01:38:31.000 Victor Conti and Dave Asperger are telling you to put sea salt.

01:38:35.000 Dave went as far as Himalayan sea salt because he's that kind of pimp.

01:38:39.000 Well, and they're not all the same, so he's right.

01:38:42.000 There is some sea salt that doesn't have these other minerals and trace elements that I'm talking about.

01:38:47.000 I've had athletes buy the wrong type.

01:38:49.000 Oh.

01:38:49.000 Well, he said you should get that stuff too because there's less pollution.

01:38:52.000 It's pure.

01:38:54.000 Now, when you see like top, do you monitor top training camps?

01:38:58.000 Or you see like the Diaz brothers and the Cesar Gracies and you see those guys.

01:39:02.000 Do you try to figure out, okay, who's working smart?

01:39:05.000 Who's using the proper blood testing and finding out what their nutritional requirements are? 0.71

01:39:10.000 And who's just going old school rocky drinking eggs in the morning and running hills?

01:39:14.000 Usually guys come to me.

01:39:16.000 I'm not a hired gun.

01:39:18.000 I don't go out to different camps or different fighters.

01:39:21.000 You don't pay attention to it at all?

01:39:22.000 Well, I do, but a lot of people come to me and want me to go to Mexico or come to Los Angeles.

01:39:27.000 I'm 62. I'm kind of semi-retired.

01:39:30.000 I'm right down the street from Undisputed Boxing Gym where Nonito trains there in San Carlos, about four miles from my house.

01:39:38.000 So athletes that want to come to where I am, that's where Josh comes, that's where Kyle comes, then I work with him.

01:39:45.000 So I'm just really not out there pursuing opportunities.

01:39:49.000 If it's fun, like I said, that's my mantra.

01:39:52.000 If it's not fun, I don't do it.

01:39:54.000 And the chemistry's right, then I help people.

01:39:58.000 But I certainly don't do it for the money.

01:40:00.000 It's really about just enjoying being in the trenches with athletes.

01:40:03.000 Now, this VATA testing stands for the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association.

01:40:08.000 Is that what it is?

01:40:10.000 Now, this is for people that want to go above and beyond the requirements of athletic commissions.

01:40:15.000 That's for people that are saying, okay, I'm going to show...

01:40:19.000 The world that regardless of whether or not you think that the athletic commission's urine tests are flimsy, we're going to take some like voluntary tests that are much more stringent.

01:40:29.000 We're going to find See, that's the key word here is voluntary.

01:40:35.000 Yes.

01:40:36.000 So some people, this whole deal with the, quote, Olympic-style testing, which is not really what it is, but got started with Floyd Mayweather.

01:40:45.000 He was the one that was demanding with Shane Mosley and Victor Ortiz and these other guys that he's fought that everybody that fights him, you know, if you want to fight the best, you've got to take the test.

01:40:55.000 Right.

01:40:58.000 But that's really not Olympic-style testing.

01:41:01.000 That word doesn't apply at all to me because at the core of that definition is 24-7, 365. And as I said earlier, if he's doing this eight weeks out from a fight, of course, if you're hungry, a half loaf of bread is better than none.

01:41:13.000 But what was he doing six and nine months before, as we talked about?

01:41:17.000 So you could load up like crazy for months and months.

01:41:20.000 And still retain some of the benefits of it.

01:41:22.000 Show up and retain a lot of the benefits and then show up at a fight and say, okay, you're the guy when you're ready to go into the testing and then drag him into it the following day.

01:41:31.000 Is it a case of where there's smoke, there's fire?

01:41:34.000 I mean, with all these, like Manny Pacquiao is a perfect example.

01:41:38.000 Manny Pacquiao was, he's gone through eight different weight classes.

01:41:41.000 Manny Pacquiao started off, what was he, a hundred and what pounds?

01:41:45.000 Six.

01:41:45.000 A hundred and six pounds?

01:41:46.000 All the way up to, what was he fighting, you know, when he fought?

01:41:49.000 Margarito.

01:41:50.000 How big was Margarito?

01:41:51.000 Margarito was like 168 in there.

01:41:53.000 154. But in there, he was like 168. I mean, that's incredible to go from 106 to...

01:41:57.000 Fighting a big guy like Margarito.

01:41:59.000 You know, a lot of people have accused him of stuff.

01:42:02.000 Do you know anything?

01:42:04.000 I'm highly suspicious.

01:42:06.000 I've said this publicly.

01:42:07.000 I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that when you're not subjected to testing and, you know, do I think it's been going on for a very long time, including, you know, back in the Philippines?

01:42:19.000 That's my opinion is yes.

01:42:20.000 I believe that he's been doing stuff.

01:42:24.000 But I want to go back for just a minute to what you were asking about VADA and the aspect of being voluntary.

01:42:32.000 And this is what Nonito is doing now, is he just stepped up.

01:42:37.000 And this is a great thing that's different than USADA or commission testing, is that both fighters, wherever they're fighting, are going to be subjected to the same testing.

01:42:47.000 Or these guys now, we want a contract, and we're both going to...

01:42:51.000 Do this testing, and here's who's going to do it.

01:42:53.000 It's going to be Vada, it's going to be USADA, or whatever.

01:42:56.000 Uh...

01:42:57.000 Nonito just entered a 24-7, 365. He's in the pool just like an Olympic athlete, and whenever they come, and he's able to do this on an individual basis.

01:43:08.000 So if his opponent wants to do it, great.

01:43:10.000 If he doesn't want to do it, he offered it to the guy from Japan that he fought the other night.

01:43:15.000 The guy didn't have an interest?

01:43:16.000 Okay, well, he didn't have an interest.

01:43:19.000 But Nonito wants to show his fans and lead by example and show his sport that he's the real deal.

01:43:26.000 That he has nothing to hide and everything to prove.

01:43:29.000 So is this under VADA? Yes, it is.

01:43:30.000 It is under VADA. Do you have something to do with VADA? You know, I provide consultation to VADA and people talk about that.

01:43:37.000 Is there a conflict of interest and so on.

01:43:39.000 I became an anti-doping advocate in 2005. That's when you went to jail?

01:43:44.000 Yeah, that is when I went to jail. 0.99

01:43:46.000 That's a good reason to become, like, obviously this shit is not working out for me. 0.98

01:43:50.000 It was actually before I went to jail. 0.96

01:43:51.000 I met twice with USADA, and it wasn't to give information on anybody.

01:43:58.000 I didn't rat on anybody.

01:44:00.000 I didn't talk about specific athletes.

01:44:01.000 It was just to talk to them about methods that I used to circumvent the testing and where these loopholes were.

01:44:07.000 So, like, a hacker could give information?

01:44:09.000 A company advice on how to keep their system from getting hacked.

01:44:13.000 That's exactly what I did.

01:44:14.000 And so I helped them.

01:44:15.000 I had three different meetings with them and went over thousands of pages of documents.

01:44:19.000 And it wasn't an exchange for leniency.

01:44:21.000 I got nothing out of it other than me trying to make a contribution to the collective effort.

01:44:28.000 Thereafter, I helped Dwayne Chambers, a sprinter that I worked with from the UK. And he asked me to Write a paper that listed every single drug that I gave him, the purpose, the frequency, the dosage, the brand, which I did.

01:44:45.000 And so he submitted that to the UK anti-doping.

01:44:48.000 And then some people from BBC asked me for my prescription.

01:44:53.000 How would you clean this up?

01:44:54.000 And so I wrote a paper about how the testing could be set up in a way that would be much more effective, and that got submitted to WADA.

01:45:02.000 And eventually they reached out to me and flew me to New York, and I met with the chairman at that time, Dick Pound, and spent a lot of time with him and working on him.

01:45:11.000 You like that name, huh?

01:45:14.000 Dick Pound. 0.72

01:45:15.000 Dick Pound.

01:45:16.000 And so, anyway, so I provided consultation with them and have worked on them with several different projects.

01:45:23.000 And so Margaret Goodman from Vada reached out to me, and yes, I provided consultation to her.

01:45:30.000 Margaret Goodman, formerly of the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

01:45:33.000 Yes, she was the chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for nine years, and her significant other, who's also the Vice President of Nevada, is Flip Hamansky, who was the chairman of that same Nevada Medical Advisory Board for a decade before that.

01:45:49.000 He's actually the guy that implemented the very first anabolic steroid testing in the state of Nevada.

01:45:53.000 Now, how is the distinction made between what is legal and what is illegal?

01:45:59.000 Like ZMA, even though it's effective and it makes your body produce more testosterone and growth hormone and all this good stuff, that's it.

01:46:06.000 Legal.

01:46:07.000 Well, they have a committee.

01:46:09.000 Yeah.

01:46:09.000 And it's, you know, they have a prohibited substances list.

01:46:13.000 But is it based on efficacy?

01:46:14.000 Because if that's the case, why isn't ZMA illegal?

01:46:17.000 Well, you're saying anything that works is performance enhancing, so where do you draw that line?

01:46:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:46:21.000 That's exactly what I'm saying.

01:46:22.000 Very good question.

01:46:23.000 And I'll tell you the interesting aspect and drastic difference between state commissions And WADA and USADA and VADA, or anybody that follows the World Anti-Doping Code, is the way their system works is everything is illegal unless you get permission from us.

01:46:44.000 So any drug, I mean, whatever it is, so if you go to them and you say you need testosterone and you submit your medical records and you get one, but that's even actually more restrictive, if that makes sense.

01:46:56.000 So you have to make a declaration, you have to tell us what you're taking in advance, and if we don't like what it is, then we'll let you know.

01:47:04.000 Do you feel like testosterone replacement shouldn't be a part of any sport?

01:47:08.000 Do you feel like it's just might as well be cheating or it's just too easy to manipulate?

01:47:14.000 It's very easy to manipulate.

01:47:16.000 I've talked about this as an example with baseball players when they had a couple of positive tests for synthetic testosterone recently, actually three of them, and there's been seven or eight in the last six months.

01:47:27.000 These fast-acting creams and gels, they can play a game, 10 o'clock, they rub this cream on after the game.

01:47:33.000 It peaks at about four hours in the system, aiding with recovery and tissue repair.

01:47:39.000 By eight hours, they're back down to baseline, but six hours later, they're below the 4 to 1 TE ratio.

01:47:45.000 So they can use it every single day to enhance recovery after games, and they will never test positive.

01:47:52.000 Wow.

01:47:53.000 And how long does this stay inside your system for, like, beta testing?

01:47:56.000 Well, here's what I recommend.

01:47:58.000 And, in fact, before Ryan Braun, the MVP who tested positive, that was the home run guy, and, in fact, he's up this year, I think, for the same title.

01:48:10.000 But I said back then, when they got ready to introduce growth hormone, that it was a huge mistake and it was a waste of money.

01:48:18.000 Growth hormone, in my opinion, And according to the researchers at Stanford, does not enhance performance.

01:48:26.000 Will it help you burn body fat?

01:48:29.000 Yes.

01:48:29.000 Will it help you make your muscles bigger?

01:48:32.000 Yes.

01:48:32.000 Will it help accelerate the healing and tissue repair, connective tissue, ligament, tendon type injury?

01:48:37.000 Yes.

01:48:38.000 Does it make your muscles stronger and faster?

01:48:41.000 The answer is no.

01:48:42.000 But it helps you heal.

01:48:44.000 So if you're recovering, it helps you recover quicker.

01:48:47.000 You can work out harder.

01:48:48.000 So it does enhance.

01:48:51.000 The studies that they've done, there's no science showing that it makes you stronger or faster.

01:48:56.000 Right, but isn't that sort of illogical?

01:48:58.000 Listen to what I just said.

01:49:00.000 I understand.

01:49:01.000 So, like I said, it burns body fat, makes the muscles bigger.

01:49:04.000 It makes the tissue recover.

01:49:06.000 But it doesn't make you stronger or faster.

01:49:08.000 Right.

01:49:08.000 So the bottom line is, if it's for cosmetics and you're a bodybuilder...

01:49:11.000 No, no, no.

01:49:12.000 You said it makes tissue recover faster, and that is the point of working out.

01:49:16.000 Your workout, your tissue breaks down, it gets stronger, and it heals quicker if you're on growth hormone.

01:49:23.000 That alone means it enhances...

01:49:24.000 So you're saying the recovery benefit means you can train, get a deeper training level.

01:49:27.000 Yeah, it allows you to train harder.

01:49:30.000 It allows you to recover faster than normal, which is a big part of what training is all about.

01:49:34.000 Training is not just training and you get stronger.

01:49:36.000 The harder you work, you get stronger.

01:49:38.000 No, you have to recover.

01:49:39.000 And if you're recovering at an unnatural rate because you're taking growth hormone, then guess what?

01:49:44.000 Growth hormone is allowing you to get stronger.

01:49:46.000 Here's the argument.

01:49:47.000 I don't think you can compare testosterone to growth hormone.

01:49:51.000 No, I think you're correct.

01:49:52.000 Growth hormone is anabolic.

01:49:54.000 Testosterone is classified as an anti-catabolic agent.

01:49:57.000 It's not even classified as being anabolic.

01:49:59.000 All I'm saying is that you can't say, I mean, whatever their study says, it doesn't make you stronger. 0.89

01:50:04.000 That's silly. 0.99

01:50:05.000 That's a silly study. 0.98

01:50:06.000 It allows you to train harder. 0.92

01:50:08.000 Let me back up.

01:50:09.000 It was a review of every single study ever performed, and not a single one of them showed that it did make you stronger or faster.

01:50:17.000 It's a review article.

01:50:18.000 But all these athletes take it, and they all claim that it makes them stronger, and it helps them.

01:50:24.000 You want to know why?

01:50:25.000 Yes.

01:50:26.000 Because they stack it with steroids, and the steroids help you create the protein synthesis.

01:50:31.000 It's a leapfrog.

01:50:32.000 You make the gains, and then it helps you with the retention of those gains.

01:50:37.000 So the growth hormone and the steroids together are effective.

01:50:41.000 The growth hormone by itself does not make you stronger.

01:50:44.000 Candy flipping.

01:50:44.000 That's it.

01:50:45.000 They're candy flipping like a motherfucker, Brian. 1.00

01:50:48.000 Wow. 1.00

01:50:48.000 And how did all this information get mainstream? 1.00

01:50:52.000 I mean, was it Soviet scientists?

01:50:54.000 Like, who was the first person to figure out how to manipulate hormones and add different things and, you know, DHEA? Okay, we'll talk about Dianabol, the first American steroid in a minute, in which this guy Ziegler, weightlifting coach for the United States in the 50s, got it from the Soviet bloc.

01:51:11.000 He knew they were doing stuff.

01:51:12.000 But I want to go back to this other point about testosterone.

01:51:16.000 Okay, please do.

01:51:19.000 Now I forget what I was saying.

01:51:20.000 How dare you? 1.00

01:51:21.000 You wanted to go back, but you don't know where the fuck you're going. 0.99

01:51:23.000 Well, what we were talking about was introducing artificial testosterone and whether or not artificial testosterone... 0.99

01:51:30.000 Oh, okay.

01:51:30.000 It was about baseball and Ryan Braun and the specific test.

01:51:35.000 And I got a call from the editor, Terry Thompson, of the New York Daily News Sports Department.

01:51:41.000 She was asking for my comment about...

01:51:43.000 That they are going to do this growth hormone test in baseball and introduce it to the minor leagues.

01:51:48.000 I said, it's not the highest and best priority for the funds that are available to do testing.

01:51:55.000 They need to introduce this CIR, this carbon isotope ratio testing, because that has a significant effect upon performance and the players are doing it on a daily basis.

01:52:06.000 And they're coming back under the 4 to 1, and it's a huge loophole.

01:52:10.000 And they should, instead of doing this with growth hormone, which is an anti-catabolic agent, you could eliminate the use of the anabolic agent, testosterone, with those exact same dollars.

01:52:21.000 They both cost about $400.

01:52:26.000 Okay, and all this was, again, this is, some of it's legal, some of it's illegal.

01:52:32.000 Growth hormone across the board is illegal, correct?

01:52:35.000 Everyone says it's illegal?

01:52:36.000 No, there's a lot of people that, depends on a lot of other factors.

01:52:40.000 I mean, doctors are prescribing it, it's off-label use.

01:52:44.000 You know, that's, I don't know about the legality of it, but in, you know, places like Florida and Arizona and Nevada, there's a lot of these clinics that are for anti-aging longevity purposes.

01:52:55.000 I'm sure they're They're legally prescribing it.

01:52:57.000 Yeah, no, that's not what I mean.

01:52:58.000 I mean for sports.

01:52:59.000 I mean, like for MMA, no one's legal to have a human growth hormone.

01:53:05.000 I've never heard of a human growth hormone exemption because they can't test for it, correct?

01:53:09.000 I don't believe they have an effective test for it.

01:53:11.000 They've actually got two tests for it, and they use both of them at the recent Olympic Games.

01:53:15.000 But they don't last very long.

01:53:18.000 At the most, after an injection, they can possibly detect it maybe up to 36 hours.

01:53:24.000 What's the future when it comes to this stuff? 0.98

01:53:26.000 Because it makes me think that if you're sticking pellets in your ass and butterflying them in there and all the different stuff, the creams and all this different jazz, how far are we from real genetic manipulation? 0.95

01:53:40.000 How far are we from something that changes human beings on the level of the information that's inside their cells? 0.99

01:53:49.000 I don't think it's all that close.

01:53:52.000 Really?

01:53:52.000 I mean, they talked about when is it going to be at the Athens Olympics?

01:53:55.000 Is it going to be in Beijing?

01:53:56.000 Is it going to be in London?

01:53:58.000 I mean, I still don't see gene doping.

01:54:00.000 Do you think that it's possible?

01:54:02.000 Yeah.

01:54:03.000 It seems inevitable.

01:54:04.000 That's my question.

01:54:05.000 You're saying you don't see it.

01:54:06.000 You might not see it in a week or a month or a couple of years.

01:54:10.000 It's prohibited, and they're attempting to develop...

01:54:13.000 Tests for it, and they're working in conjunction with these companies that are manufacturing these products.

01:54:18.000 So it's going to happen.

01:54:19.000 Isn't Monsanto involved in genetics now?

01:54:23.000 I believe Monsanto is involved. 0.98

01:54:25.000 It was maybe pharmaceuticals, whatever the fuck it was. 0.91

01:54:29.000 You've got to get a company like Monsanto involved in the whole sports doping, performance enhancing. 1.00

01:54:36.000 They'll figure out some shit. 0.97

01:54:37.000 They'll figure out how to genetically modify human beings. 0.99

01:54:39.000 I want to go back and clarify my position, what I think about the use of testosterone.

01:54:46.000 And because you have the ability through this carbon isotope ratio testing, To differentiate between endogenous and exogenous testosterone, regardless of the delivery system, that it should be classified like all the rest of the anabolic steroids.

01:55:02.000 In other words, it's not quantitative.

01:55:04.000 Well, you can have up to four to one, or you can have allowed so much, but over that, it either has to be It's qualitative.

01:55:13.000 You can either do it or you can't.

01:55:15.000 You're either pregnant or you're not.

01:55:16.000 Because as soon as you allow it on a quantitative basis, you're going to have the abuse that we're seeing now.

01:55:23.000 And where do you draw that line?

01:55:26.000 What is abuse and what's not?

01:55:27.000 I mean, it's a mess.

01:55:33.000 It's an interesting philosophical debate.

01:55:37.000 I've heard guys say that they would take testosterone and they would take human growth hormone when they get to be 50 years old, but they will not take it while they're fighting because they don't want to ever think.

01:55:50.000 The only reason why I got here is because I cheated.

01:55:52.000 Because I had to take something.

01:55:54.000 I couldn't just do it with my willpower and I couldn't just do it with my discipline.

01:55:59.000 And then you got guys who just, you know, Rampage says he just started taking it.

01:56:03.000 He never felt better.

01:56:04.000 He said he was like really down in the dumps.

01:56:06.000 He was really bothering him.

01:56:07.000 And now he's taking it.

01:56:09.000 Well, it's recreational.

01:56:10.000 It does make you feel good.

01:56:12.000 I'm sure you probably know.

01:56:13.000 Well, it's also, it doesn't just make you feel good.

01:56:16.000 It actually makes your body perform better.

01:56:18.000 Of course.

01:56:19.000 Is that fair?

01:56:20.000 I mean, what happens there?

01:56:22.000 I mean, it's obviously legal.

01:56:23.000 They've made it legal in Nevada.

01:56:25.000 They've in most, you know, in California.

01:56:28.000 California even made medical marijuana legal.

01:56:31.000 So, I mean, you can have medical marijuana exemptions now.

01:56:34.000 So it's allowed.

01:56:37.000 So is that a mistake?

01:56:39.000 I don't think it's a mistake.

01:56:41.000 You know, I have a lot of personal friends that are on testosterone replacement therapy.

01:56:45.000 Are they professional athletes that are fighters?

01:56:47.000 No.

01:56:48.000 See, that's where it gets weird, right?

01:56:50.000 Back in pre-Balco Ray days from 1996 through 2003, I was on TRT and absolutely loved the effects.

01:57:02.000 And did it moderately.

01:57:04.000 Yeah, but you weren't fighting.

01:57:05.000 The real question is, should it be okay for guys to compete in a sport where your goal is to punch someone in the head?

01:57:12.000 And you can turn your body into a far more efficient killing machine when you're juiced up on the sauce.

01:57:18.000 And there's absolutely no doubt about the effects.

01:57:21.000 I mean, how the tremendous advantage that it gives you in terms of power and speed.

01:57:27.000 It's huge.

01:57:28.000 Well, that's why it's weird.

01:57:29.000 It's like, this is a different sport.

01:57:31.000 It's not as simple as, you know, you just want to look better.

01:57:35.000 No, you can hurt someone more.

01:57:37.000 And you can hurt someone in a situation where maybe you couldn't hurt them.

01:57:42.000 When Cyborg tested positive and everybody said, first of all, they said, duh.

01:57:47.000 And then after they said, duh, they said, well, think about the beating that she gave Gina Carano. 0.86

01:57:53.000 Would she have even been able to do that if she was natural, if she wasn't just ridiculously freakish, man-like strong? 0.99

01:58:01.000 And she says that's the only time she ever did anything, and who the fuck am I to guess? 0.98

01:58:04.000 But from what I've talked to, we had a hormone doctor on the show, Dr. Steve Graham, and he said it's not even possible for a woman to look like that if she's not taking testosterone. 0.98

01:58:14.000 I have a friend named Bill Romanowski who once said, as soon as an athlete starts to use drugs, they become a liar.

01:58:21.000 Yeah.

01:58:22.000 Especially in a sport like that, in MMA, and you're a woman. 0.99

01:58:26.000 No woman wants to admit she's got man juice inside of her, flowing through her veins, forcing her to look all manly. 1.00

01:58:32.000 I want to get some of this testosterone.

01:58:34.000 I saw the other day a thing about how when you turn 35, your body just starts losing it like crazy.

01:58:41.000 I don't think I had any to begin with, so now I'm negative, I think.

01:58:45.000 You're like a boy?

01:58:46.000 You're a girl.

01:58:47.000 You're basically a girl. 0.93

01:58:48.000 But you have a beard.

01:58:49.000 But the symptoms were like, you know, you're just really tired.

01:58:53.000 Let me also smoke cigarettes.

01:58:55.000 The research is that at 30 years of age, you begin to decline by about 1% per year.

01:59:05.000 So by the time you're 45, you might have a 15% reduction.

01:59:10.000 And at this recent...

01:59:13.000 At the Association of Ringside Physicians meeting they presented some data and they said that of the men over 45 that 8% Had a medical need for testosterone replacement therapy.

01:59:27.000 So it's not like you hit 35 and it's over.

01:59:29.000 There's a very gradual decline.

01:59:31.000 Well, it's also what we talked about earlier that an ethical person, when they want to adjust your hormones, the first thing they're going to look at is your diet, your exercise, and your sleep patterns. 1.00

01:59:41.000 This motherfucker's a mess. 1.00

01:59:42.000 And he wants to stick pellets in his ass. 1.00

01:59:44.000 He's just looking for a way to stick pellets in his ass. 1.00

01:59:47.000 No, I'm just always really, really tired. 1.00

01:59:50.000 Well, listen, sweetie.

01:59:51.000 You're not that healthy.

01:59:52.000 I know.

01:59:52.000 You know that.

01:59:53.000 You're smoking cigarettes.

01:59:54.000 It's one of the least...

01:59:55.000 Tell them.

01:59:56.000 Tell them about cigarettes, Victor.

01:59:57.000 You're a math science.

01:59:58.000 Do you want one?

02:00:01.000 They're loaded with cadmium, which inhibits the absorption of zinc, and zinc reduction lowers androgen receptors and increases estrogen receptors.

02:00:12.000 So keep smoking, and you'll become more feminine. 1.00

02:00:14.000 And if you don't have zinc in your body, you have smaller loads.

02:00:18.000 That's right.

02:00:18.000 Senior volume is reduced.

02:00:20.000 I must have a lot of zinc.

02:00:22.000 I like how he said it.

02:00:23.000 I think the way I said it sounded sexier, though.

02:00:26.000 Smaller loads.

02:00:27.000 Like, semen reduction has been observed.

02:00:29.000 There's a famous study by Dr. Ohm, and he was trying to figure out why Alcoholics develop feminine-like characteristics, and alcohol depletes zinc.

02:00:44.000 And over time, that reduces your testosterone, that reduces the number and size of androgen receptors, and then increases the number of estrogen receptors.

02:00:57.000 So if you're an alcoholic, You better load up on zinc.

02:01:01.000 Alright, I need to get some zinc ASAP. Zinc and water.

02:01:04.000 Alcohol is also an immunosuppressant, right?

02:01:07.000 What exactly does that do to your system when you drink alcohol?

02:01:10.000 And zinc is a very powerful immunostimulant.

02:01:13.000 You know about zinc, throat lozenges, and zinc is everywhere.

02:01:17.000 It's great when you're sick, right?

02:01:19.000 It's the most anabolic of all minerals.

02:01:23.000 Really?

02:01:24.000 Absolutely.

02:01:25.000 There's no question.

02:01:26.000 First, it was in many different diseased populations.

02:01:30.000 You ever heard about the discovery of zinc deficiency?

02:01:32.000 I have, yeah.

02:01:34.000 Ananda Prasad in 1961 in Iran, and then they confirmed a study again in 1963 in Egypt.

02:01:41.000 Long story short, they had...

02:01:43.000 A group of teenage male boys with dwarfism and hypogonadism.

02:01:49.000 And they found out there was a high percentage of clay in the diet that was inhibiting the absorption of zinc.

02:01:56.000 And they gave them 50 milligrams of zinc a day.

02:01:58.000 And in a period of one year, they grew over a foot in height.

02:02:01.000 And the size of their sexual organs over doubled.

02:02:04.000 Okay.

02:02:04.000 How much zinc should I take every day?

02:02:06.000 Like 200 milligrams?

02:02:08.000 Like... 1.00

02:02:09.000 Zinc makes your dick grow, son. 1.00

02:02:11.000 Is it safe to take zinc every day, or is that something you just want to do in limited? 1.00

02:02:14.000 Not in excess.

02:02:15.000 I wouldn't take...

02:02:16.000 The upper limit, they say, is 40 milligrams.

02:02:20.000 ZMA contains 30 milligrams per serving.

02:02:22.000 ZMA. I wouldn't go too crazy, because then you lower copper, and then you start having connective tissue ligament tendon-type issues.

02:02:30.000 So how much a day?

02:02:32.000 How many grams?

02:02:34.000 30 milligrams.

02:02:35.000 30 milligrams.

02:02:35.000 30 milligrams of a bioavailable form.

02:02:38.000 They're not all the same.

02:02:39.000 Don't go to Walgreens or CVS and buy some cheap form.

02:02:44.000 The one you want to avoid is any sort of zinc gluconate or zinc oxide or zinc sulfate.

02:02:50.000 The absorption is very, very low.

02:02:52.000 So you want zinc monomethionine or zinc...

02:02:56.000 Citrate, or there's other forms, zinc aspartate, that are much more bioavailable.

02:03:02.000 Is there a certain brand that I should look for that you recommend?

02:03:06.000 Yeah, what's your brand?

02:03:08.000 Well, the brand of ZMA is, look on the label.

02:03:11.000 If it says ZMA is a trademark of snack, then you know it comes from, it's the real deal that comes originally from me.

02:03:18.000 But it's Muscle Farm has it, Optimum has it, Twin Lab has it, Almost every company out there has it.

02:03:27.000 Do you have, as yours, have you giving a big balco thumbs up? 0.97

02:03:31.000 Like Victor Conte, your big smiling face?

02:03:34.000 It doesn't?

02:03:35.000 No, it has the double bicep.

02:03:36.000 You should do it.

02:03:37.000 Like Newman's Pizza?

02:03:38.000 Like Newman's own pizza sauce?

02:03:40.000 You know, Newman's own popcorn?

02:03:42.000 He's got his face?

02:03:43.000 You should go for that.

02:03:44.000 Your own line of...

02:03:47.000 The Victor Conte approved?

02:03:50.000 Purchased.

02:03:50.000 Did you just get some?

02:03:52.000 Damn, look at you. 1.00

02:03:53.000 That's how serious Brian is about his testosterone depletion. 1.00

02:03:57.000 That's the healthiest way to do it?

02:03:58.000 Zinc?

02:03:59.000 Well, you know, you've got to look at the food sources.

02:04:03.000 The reason I would recommend that you do it in supplements is by a tenfold factor, the highest food source for zinc is oysters.

02:04:14.000 Which, as always people say, helps to subscribe.

02:04:15.000 You like oysters?

02:04:16.000 Yeah, it's an aphrodisiac and all the rest of that.

02:04:19.000 A lot of people don't...

02:04:21.000 Some people do like oysters.

02:04:22.000 A lot of people do not.

02:04:24.000 How many oysters do you have to eat to run up to...

02:04:26.000 Oh, half a can a day.

02:04:27.000 Half a can?

02:04:28.000 You know, the little cans?

02:04:30.000 The little oysters.

02:04:31.000 Jesus. 1.00

02:04:32.000 Who the fuck's eating cans? 1.00

02:04:33.000 Grass-fed oysters. 1.00

02:04:34.000 Yeah, that's bullshit. 1.00

02:04:35.000 What, are you going to eat fresh? 1.00

02:04:36.000 Are you going to go to the oyster bar?

02:04:37.000 Yeah, you've got to get fresh ones.

02:04:38.000 Eat a dozen? 0.99

02:04:39.000 Yeah, because if you get them in a can, man, you're getting all the shit that's in a can. 0.99

02:04:42.000 You mean like sodium and other preservatives? 0.93

02:04:45.000 Yeah, and I guess they don't have the same issues as sardines do, but canned sardines, I had my blood work done and it showed high levels of arsenic.

02:04:53.000 You were talking about nutritionally dense foods earlier in the greens.

02:04:58.000 They're also loaded with cholesterol.

02:05:01.000 So take a supplement.

02:05:02.000 No, oysters.

02:05:03.000 Oh. 1.00

02:05:04.000 I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? 1.00

02:05:05.000 Salad is loaded with cholesterol? 1.00

02:05:07.000 Jesus Christ!

02:05:08.000 Well, oysters.

02:05:09.000 Oysters. 0.99

02:05:09.000 Well, according to guys like Rob Wolf, these paleo guys, they say cholesterol is not the problem. 0.99

02:05:15.000 The problem is that people are, first of all, they're eating a bunch of shitty foods and that they're eating a bunch of grains and pastas and gluten-based products and that they're not getting fat from animals that live off a healthy diet, grass-fed diets.

02:05:31.000 You know, a body that lives under grass-fed meat and grass-fed milk is actually far healthier than cows that are eating grains and fucking up their entire body so that they can have good marbling for the steak.

02:05:43.000 Do you advise fighters on what type of protein they take in their body and how do you do that?

02:05:50.000 Well, different species at different times.

02:05:52.000 Sometimes you take a blend.

02:05:54.000 Sometimes you take...

02:05:55.000 Are you talking about protein powders or are you talking about food sources?

02:05:58.000 Animals.

02:05:58.000 Food.

02:05:59.000 I mean, you can protein powder all you want, but at the end of the day, there's benefits to animal protein that you're not going to get from whey.

02:06:07.000 It's like whey powder, right?

02:06:08.000 Right, right.

02:06:09.000 What do you advise them as far as...

02:06:11.000 I really don't make specific recommendations about what type of meat and in terms of food sources.

02:06:16.000 It doesn't have enough of an impact?

02:06:17.000 It's really difficult with compliance...

02:06:19.000 No, I think it's important.

02:06:20.000 But if you had to advise and you wanted them to listen to you, what would you say?

02:06:26.000 If someone has your ear, they give you their ear, rather, 100%.

02:06:31.000 They're like, listen, please, tell me everything to do.

02:06:34.000 What should I eat?

02:06:35.000 You mean in terms of...

02:06:36.000 Optimum...

02:06:37.000 Chicken fish and these types of...

02:06:38.000 Optimum success, yeah.

02:06:39.000 Well, one thing about red meat that I advise people is cut it up into small pieces.

02:06:45.000 You don't want these big chunks.

02:06:46.000 They're very difficult to digest and metabolize.

02:06:49.000 So a lot of guys, really, when they're starving to make weight, before a fight, they want to eat red meat.

02:06:54.000 And I always advise them to cut it up into very small pieces because you can really slow things down by trying to digest big chunks of meat. 0.98

02:07:01.000 And you should really chew the shit out of it, too. 0.98

02:07:04.000 Cut it up really small pieces. 0.99

02:07:05.000 A lot of people don't like to chew their food.

02:07:06.000 They just like to wolf it. 0.98

02:07:08.000 Then have pasta and some sort of a lean hamburger meat or something.

02:07:12.000 Yeah, it feels good.

02:07:13.000 Pasta and big chunks of meat all together. 1.00

02:07:17.000 Shut the fuck up, son of a bitch. 1.00

02:07:20.000 This Olive Garden. 1.00

02:07:20.000 You don't know. 1.00

02:07:21.000 You don't know.

02:07:21.000 You come here for one show.

02:07:22.000 I'm here for 300 of them.

02:07:24.000 I hear this Olive Garden hundreds of times.

02:07:26.000 This kid brings it up.

02:07:27.000 That's Nonito's favorite place.

02:07:28.000 That's where he goes to eat.

02:07:29.000 Oh, no.

02:07:30.000 What have you done?

02:07:31.000 What have you done, Mr. Coddy?

02:07:34.000 I hate to let the cat out of the bag, but I've been with him many times.

02:07:37.000 You guys talked together before the show.

02:07:39.000 You talked before the show, Brian.

02:07:41.000 You cheated.

02:07:42.000 Do you enjoy it yourself, sir?

02:07:46.000 I'm sorry for sniffling in front of the microphone, ladies and gentlemen.

02:07:48.000 I love how yesterday you were like, I never get sick.

02:07:50.000 I don't.

02:07:51.000 This is rare. 1.00

02:07:52.000 This fucking travel from Brazil. 1.00

02:07:54.000 I was hungover until I brought you some ZMA. Yeah. 1.00

02:07:57.000 Saturday night, I had a little absinthe.

02:08:00.000 Oh, you did?

02:08:01.000 Yeah.

02:08:01.000 Like the legit stuff?

02:08:02.000 Yeah.

02:08:03.000 How was it? 1.00

02:08:04.000 It's fucking ridiculous. 0.99

02:08:05.000 But you don't feel good the next day. 1.00

02:08:07.000 And then I flew.

02:08:08.000 So I caught a little wee bit of a cold.

02:08:10.000 It's rare for me.

02:08:11.000 But it's not even a real cold.

02:08:12.000 It's just sniffles.

02:08:13.000 It worked out.

02:08:14.000 I feel great.

02:08:15.000 I just got this little sniffle thing going on.

02:08:18.000 And I also drank some milk.

02:08:21.000 They say, Joe, milk will make your body produce more phlegm. 0.99

02:08:25.000 Well, then it should stop being delicious because I'm not just going to eat my cookies without milk. 1.00

02:08:31.000 Son of a bitch. 1.00

02:08:32.000 I know what the fuck I'm doing. 1.00

02:08:33.000 I'm living life, goddammit. 1.00

02:08:35.000 Living life. 0.96

02:08:36.000 If it's not fun, don't do it.

02:08:38.000 Come on, man.

02:08:39.000 I don't want to get arrested for cookies and milk.

02:08:42.000 Have you seen these people that are getting arrested for raw milk, though?

02:08:46.000 I think I got a contact eye in here.

02:08:48.000 I bet you did.

02:08:50.000 You got one the moment you walked in, son.

02:08:52.000 What do you think about these people that are getting arrested for raw milk?

02:08:55.000 Are you a nutrition fan or are you just a fan of what works on performance athletes?

02:09:00.000 More about that.

02:09:02.000 So what do you eat yourself? 1.00

02:09:03.000 You just eat like a fucking wild animal? 1.00

02:09:05.000 You eat whatever you want? 1.00

02:09:06.000 Burgers? 1.00

02:09:06.000 I eat what my wife cooks, and she's the best in the world. 1.00

02:09:09.000 Is it?

02:09:10.000 She's Asian.

02:09:11.000 Oh, there you go.

02:09:12.000 Shazam, son.

02:09:13.000 You should go to the Olive Garden with Brian.

02:09:15.000 Oh, double day!

02:09:16.000 Together, going on an Asian double day. 1.00

02:09:17.000 Fucking freaks. 1.00

02:09:18.000 Triple day. 1.00

02:09:19.000 Ball dub, yeah.

02:09:22.000 So do you train yourself?

02:09:24.000 Do you exercise?

02:09:25.000 You know...

02:09:27.000 I actually came here through the airport in a wheelchair.

02:09:33.000 A wheelchair? 0.93

02:09:34.000 Yeah, I've got some health issues that I'm dealing with now.

02:09:36.000 The bottom vertebrae slipped forward about 30%, and I've got a pinched nerve, and it's really even difficult to walk.

02:09:44.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:09:45.000 I've been having some pretty serious health issues, and I go tomorrow for an MRI, and then it's likely I'm going to have to have surgery.

02:09:54.000 So most recently, I've been really struggling with a lot of pain.

02:09:57.000 How did you injure yourself?

02:09:59.000 I don't know.

02:10:00.000 I was a triple jumper in high school and college, and maybe that was a part of it.

02:10:05.000 It could be genetic, the doctor said.

02:10:08.000 I've had this for a long time.

02:10:11.000 I mean, throughout the whole BALCO trial back from 2004 forward, I would have difficulty even standing up.

02:10:17.000 We made 15 appearances in federal court.

02:10:20.000 So I've always had this problem, but then a while back, it just...

02:10:25.000 This bottom disc just slipped, or vertebrae, excuse me, slipped forward and started pinching the nerve, and I've been really having problems, so I haven't been... 0.97

02:10:35.000 I would just think that, you know, working with all these guys and helping all these athletes, you'd want to try some of that shit. 0.97

02:10:42.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

02:10:42.000 When Barry Bonds keeps coming back and he's bigger and bigger, you're like, God damn, Barry, how's it feel? 0.99

02:10:46.000 Come on, man, what's it like being Superman?

02:10:48.000 I was the original guinea pig for a lot of this stuff, you know.

02:10:52.000 And what was it, I mean, you really felt a significant difference between how you felt?

02:10:57.000 Absolutely.

02:10:58.000 I mean, for about seven years.

02:10:59.000 But then once this 26-man SWAT team with helicopters and assault rifles and flak jackets came crashing through the door, things changed.

02:11:08.000 Was it really 26 people coming to get you?

02:11:10.000 Absolutely.

02:11:11.000 Crazy.

02:11:12.000 I mean, they're back in the original building.

02:11:15.000 It was just like you would imagine a SWAT team going after bank robbers.

02:11:19.000 They pulled up in six, seven black cars.

02:11:22.000 They filed out.

02:11:23.000 They all got their guns and got in a row.

02:11:25.000 I could see them through the window.

02:11:27.000 And then they just crashed through the front door screaming, anybody got any weapons?

02:11:31.000 All of a sudden, there's all these guns being pointed at us.

02:11:34.000 How many people were in there?

02:11:35.000 Three of us came hovering over the window.

02:11:39.000 No, it was just myself, my VP, and the office manager.

02:11:43.000 And it was a crazy, crazy experience.

02:11:46.000 And so did you have any inkling that this was going to ever happen?

02:11:50.000 Oh, I knew they were coming.

02:11:51.000 You knew they were coming?

02:11:52.000 Absolutely.

02:11:52.000 They were going through my trash every single week for an entire year.

02:11:57.000 They were copying my mail on a daily basis, the mailman told us.

02:12:03.000 Here's basically what happened.

02:12:05.000 A guy across the freeway from Balco called up and said...

02:12:10.000 You guys need to come get your trash out of my trash bin because I'm going to call the police.

02:12:15.000 So we went over there and found our garbage and brought it back over and had the big black garbage...

02:12:23.000 And inside all the little white garbage bags throughout the whole 7,000 square foot lab facility, you could see that they'd been going through these.

02:12:33.000 So we got a call a couple weeks later and said, listen, I told you to get this stuff out of here.

02:12:38.000 So we went back over there and got it again.

02:12:40.000 So I decided, you know what, let's just call the police ourselves.

02:12:43.000 So we called the Burlingame Police Department.

02:12:46.000 They came out.

02:12:46.000 We filed a police report.

02:12:48.000 They went over, and Jeff Nowitzki was illegally dumping the trash, violating whatever the penal code is for using somebody else's dumpster.

02:12:56.000 And so they ended up writing an article about this in the Burlingame Boutique and Villager, the little rag newspaper there in Burlingame.

02:13:05.000 And apparently they delivered it to Nowitzki's door, and he realized that we were on to him.

02:13:10.000 So shortly thereafter, here came the SWAT team.

02:13:12.000 They thought we were going to cover up all the evidence and destroy things, and they needed to act quickly.

02:13:17.000 So they hustled and put together this SWAT team, and there was customs and narcotics and IRS and many different agencies.

02:13:27.000 How stressful was that for you?

02:13:30.000 Well, it was crazy.

02:13:31.000 I mean, it was surreal.

02:13:33.000 You never thought you would see a SWAT team?

02:13:35.000 Well, not...

02:13:36.000 You probably don't remember this, but they had it on CNN. It was all staged.

02:13:42.000 And how I know this is as soon as they came after us inside the building with the guns and they marched us to the front door, we sat in the lobby.

02:13:50.000 And I could look right out the front door.

02:13:52.000 And next thing you know, here comes the ABC, the NBC, the CBS trucks, and up go the satellite dishes.

02:14:03.000 And like, bam, I don't understand.

02:14:05.000 Within a minute's time, here's all the news.

02:14:07.000 And in fact, ultimately, I was able to get one of the people at NBC through a reporter that I knew who had taken a picture of the helicopter.

02:14:17.000 And as it turned out, they said in these legal documents that they didn't have a helicopter there.

02:14:25.000 But it was hovering so close to the front door that the louvers over the window actually cracked from the vibration.

02:14:31.000 And I managed to get a picture of the helicopter and get the number off of it and trace it over the bay there to Hayward, and it was a company called Helinet, We went to their website, and they did all sorts of governmental work, including the transport of nine U.S. presidents.

02:14:51.000 So clearly it was them.

02:14:53.000 They just misrepresented this, what really happened that day.

02:14:57.000 So what I'm trying to say is I found out that they contacted these newscasters.

02:15:04.000 This is all illegal, by the way.

02:15:06.000 They contacted these newscasters and said, Park down the street with your vans, and we're going to raid this place, this Balco Laboratories, and we don't want you to film the actual raid, but we want you to get the aftermath.

02:15:23.000 So it seems as if they showed up.

02:15:25.000 It was all staged for television.

02:15:27.000 I mean, think about this.

02:15:29.000 I believe that this was, in part, a diversion, a distraction from the war in Iraq.

02:15:37.000 I mean, all of a sudden I became the Saddam Hussein of sport.

02:15:41.000 I was this bad guy.

02:15:43.000 President Bush is talking about this in the State of the Union address.

02:15:47.000 John Ashcroft, the U.S. Attorney General, is announcing my indictment on the steps of the White House.

02:15:55.000 Listen, I pled guilty to, I don't know if you know about units in the federal guidelines, but at that particular time, a 10cc bottle is one unit of any type of steroid.

02:16:07.000 50 pills of any type of steroid was one unit.

02:16:12.000 I pled to 25 units.

02:16:14.000 Understand that that's less than an ounce of marijuana.

02:16:19.000 So why would you bring all this firepower, all these helicopters, all this news media?

02:16:25.000 The whole thing was staged.

02:16:27.000 25 units, what would that fit in a bag?

02:16:30.000 Well, it would be 25 bottles of steroids that would have 50 tablets, or it would be 25 10cc bottles.

02:16:38.000 So easily, for folks who can't wrap their head around it, it would go in a lunchbox.

02:16:42.000 It would go in a lunchbox.

02:16:44.000 The total value of everything that they found was less than $1,500.

02:16:48.000 And so they came in with 26 dudes in SWAT gear for...

02:16:53.000 Assault rifles.

02:16:55.000 A couple hundred bucks.

02:16:55.000 They penned us.

02:16:56.000 Yeah.

02:16:57.000 That's incredible.

02:16:58.000 So you get what I'm saying.

02:16:59.000 They knew that they had the names.

02:17:02.000 They knew that it was Barry Bonds and Marion Jones.

02:17:05.000 Why do they care so much?

02:17:06.000 What is the motivation behind chasing after these athletes?

02:17:09.000 I believe it's been about trophy hunting from day number one.

02:17:12.000 Because you have...

02:17:13.000 You know, there were ten baseball players.

02:17:16.000 Of those ten, I've got every single one of their grand jury testimonies.

02:17:19.000 They basically said the exact same thing as Barry Bonds.

02:17:23.000 He was the only one.

02:17:24.000 I believe it's clearly selective prosecution.

02:17:26.000 He was the only one that was indicted.

02:17:28.000 So it was all about making an example.

02:17:31.000 Because he's a famous guy.

02:17:33.000 Because he's the most famous and he will bring the most headlines.

02:17:35.000 And he was the guy who was knocking in the most home runs.

02:17:37.000 So go after him.

02:17:39.000 And they didn't have enough money to prosecute everybody?

02:17:41.000 Is that what it was?

02:17:42.000 The state's budgets didn't have enough money to prosecute all the athletes?

02:17:46.000 Or did they have some sort of a deal with baseball?

02:17:49.000 Like, how does that work?

02:17:51.000 Well, you hear all sorts of numbers, you know, 55, 60, you know, and beyond, even before they took Barry Bonds and, you know, aside from Balco with his own trial on perjury, they probably spent $100 million.

02:18:07.000 Jesus!

02:18:08.000 It's hard to understand, you know, why they...

02:18:11.000 It's so crazy.

02:18:12.000 Look, think about this aspect.

02:18:15.000 Nowitzki...

02:18:16.000 Let me tell you how Balco really started, okay?

02:18:19.000 No one's heard this story.

02:18:21.000 Back in 1992...

02:18:25.000 I was working with track athletes, including Greg Trafalis, the guy that I told you that tested positive and they covered up his drug test.

02:18:32.000 And I was at the Bruce Jenner Classic in San Jose at San Jose City College.

02:18:37.000 And I was working with a number of athletes that went to the College of San Mateo, which is where Nonito still does his track training.

02:18:46.000 Greg's coach, we won't name him for now, was there.

02:18:49.000 And I saw him.

02:18:51.000 He was about 57 at the time.

02:18:52.000 Now he's probably 70 years old, but he still coaches up there.

02:18:56.000 And I walked up to the bend of the 200 meters.

02:19:00.000 They were getting ready to start the race.

02:19:02.000 And all of a sudden, I realized that one of the young girls, she was 19 at the time, she became a national javelin champion, was standing there with his coach.

02:19:13.000 And all of a sudden, she started scratching his arm, and he started rubbing her, and you could see there was a little something going on there.

02:19:20.000 Sexually.

02:19:21.000 That the coach was doing the student. 1.00

02:19:23.000 Oh, you son of a bitch. 1.00

02:19:24.000 So I went back to Greg, and I said, Greg, do you know that your coach is doing the student? 1.00

02:19:31.000 And he said, dude, you don't know the half of it.

02:19:33.000 We go to these meets, and we can't find them, and then we stumble over.

02:19:36.000 We look all over the stadium, and by the time we get out to his van, he comes stumbling out, buckling up his pants and stuff.

02:19:43.000 And so this has been going on for a long time.

02:19:46.000 Well, he told this person that I knew.

02:19:49.000 Now, it just so happened that his boss was a stockholder in Balcom.

02:19:53.000 He was afraid he was going to lose his job.

02:19:55.000 He was a San Francisco fireman.

02:19:57.000 And he coached part-time.

02:19:59.000 From that day on, that guy hated my guts.

02:20:02.000 Every single time my name came up, it was bad things to say.

02:20:07.000 Well, his younger brother is the coach of the high school where Greg's kids went that's right over the freeway from Balco.

02:20:15.000 His best friend is Jeff Nowitzki.

02:20:20.000 So, Greg got mad at me because when he found out I was giving designer stuff to athletes, he told his coach, who told his brother, who told Nowitzki, and Nowitzki knew that it was Barry Bonds and all these elite athletes.

02:20:35.000 So for one year, he came every single Monday night across the freeway, he still lives right over the freeway, and went through my trash until he found enough evidence to go to the prosecutor, Jeff Nedrow, and get $300 to buy a membership to the World's Gym right next door to Balco there where Barry Bonds was trained by Greg Anderson.

02:20:56.000 And so all I'm saying is this is really how it started.

02:21:02.000 And the rest is history, as they say.

02:21:05.000 So, trophy hunting.

02:21:06.000 So, essentially, prosecutors that wanted a big-name case to make their careers.

02:21:12.000 And so they went after guys like Barry Bonds.

02:21:14.000 Didn't go after Mark McGuire that much, though, huh?

02:21:17.000 Well, that was earlier.

02:21:19.000 Yeah.

02:21:19.000 That was five years earlier than this.

02:21:21.000 This was in 2003. But when he came out and he wanted to get that coaching job, he had to sort of admit that he took steroids, right?

02:21:27.000 Yeah, he did.

02:21:28.000 But everybody was like, yeah, it's okay, you're a white guy.

02:21:33.000 Barry Bonds, guys.

02:21:34.000 Well, it is what it is.

02:21:36.000 In all of this, that's the bottom line.

02:21:40.000 When I say, and earlier I said what you had described was a mess.

02:21:46.000 This is a mess.

02:21:47.000 In my opinion, what you have is one group of cheaters, the athletes and those helping them, being chased by another group of cheaters, The law enforcement and anti-doping.

02:22:01.000 And they cheat equally as much, if not more so, than the athletes.

02:22:05.000 How do the anti-doping people cheat, other than what you said before, where they get rid of some positive tests?

02:22:11.000 That was a while ago, right?

02:22:13.000 It's absolute propaganda by the government as well as the anti-doping.

02:22:17.000 Really?

02:22:18.000 Let me give you an example.

02:22:20.000 Kelly White, the one that I told you, tested positive for Modafinil, the very first one.

02:22:24.000 Yes.

02:22:24.000 When they came to her, they said, and this is what they do and why I'm so grateful that I never considered cooperating with them in any way, shape, or form.

02:22:35.000 But they came to her and they said, listen, you're going to get a two-year ban.

02:22:38.000 We'll reinstate you in one year if you cooperate.

02:22:40.000 Here's what we want you to do.

02:22:42.000 They wrote a script and they had her go around all over New York, Copenhagen, London, all these different places and tell lies that they knew were absolute lies.

02:22:54.000 In other words, she'd used drugs for 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003. They got all the drug calendars.

02:23:02.000 They had them.

02:23:02.000 But the story was I went to this big bad wolf, Victor, and he told me that it was vitamins, but two weeks later he called and told me that it was the real stuff, and then I didn't take it again all the way until 2003, and then from March until I became the double world champion, then I took him again.

02:23:21.000 She lied to the grand jury and said she didn't inject EPO. She committed perjury.

02:23:27.000 They never went after her at all.

02:23:30.000 Is there proof that she committed perjury?

02:23:32.000 Absolutely.

02:23:32.000 She's in with the black guy, James Brown, on HBO Real Sports later.

02:23:39.000 He says, and I've got this video, did you use EPO? Yes, I did.

02:23:43.000 Well, did you inject it?

02:23:44.000 Yes.

02:23:45.000 Where did you inject it?

02:23:46.000 Oh, in my stomach.

02:23:47.000 Was it painful?

02:23:48.000 Yes, it was.

02:23:49.000 Well, to the grand jury, she said, oh, no, I didn't use it.

02:23:52.000 They gave it to me, but I flushed it down the toilet.

02:23:54.000 Whoa.

02:23:55.000 So she absolutely lied, committed perjury.

02:23:58.000 On HBO. I mean, I've got the video and the grand jury transcript.

02:24:04.000 But here's how they play.

02:24:07.000 Then they came back to her and they said, okay, well you've done all these things, you've testified against all these people, you've said everything that we want you to say, and she said, great, now reinstate me and let me get back on the track.

02:24:20.000 And they said, oh, well by the way, we forgot to tell you, Kelly, you've got to go to the IAAF and every single penny, you know that $350,000 that you made, pay it all back to them and maybe they'll let you back.

02:24:33.000 You have to pay back everything you ever earned as a track and field athlete.

02:24:36.000 Well, they didn't tell her that up front.

02:24:39.000 This is the kind of stuff that they do to anyone and everyone that does cooperate with them.

02:24:44.000 At the end of the day, let's look at this now.

02:24:46.000 Let's take it a step forward with Floyd Landis.

02:24:49.000 Remember when there was going to be the whistleblower that they had $30 million and he was going to get a certain percentage of that, 10% or $3 million, and he filed a federal claim and he was cooperating with them and then at the end of the day, now they're charging him.

02:25:02.000 They're charging him with what?

02:25:05.000 Fraud.

02:25:06.000 He raised $2 million by selling a book telling people he was clean when he knew he was dirty.

02:25:11.000 Wow.

02:25:13.000 So all I'm saying is they delete stuff in reports.

02:25:18.000 They say things that people...

02:25:20.000 Me personally, they said that I said things the day of the raid that I never said.

02:25:25.000 And the things that I did say, they deleted it from the report.

02:25:28.000 Now understand, I filed a declaration under penalty of perjury with the federal court saying that these guys lied and every single thing they said in this memorandum of interview And all this is missing from this memorandum of activity.

02:25:42.000 Well, you don't see them coming after me for perjury.

02:25:46.000 This is very complicated.

02:25:48.000 It's getting a little convoluted here, unfortunately.

02:25:50.000 I see what you're saying, and I see that you're saying that they're corrupt.

02:25:54.000 I'm saying that it's a mess because both sides are cheating to win.

02:25:58.000 Both sides are cheating to win.

02:25:59.000 I see what you're saying.

02:26:00.000 Prosecutors are cheating.

02:26:01.000 And that's often the case that people complain about all sorts of situations where people get busted for something, that the cops want to...

02:26:07.000 They want to pin them with the crime, so they will sometimes manufacture evidence.

02:26:13.000 They will sometimes manipulate the law.

02:26:16.000 They will sometimes...

02:26:17.000 Do what it takes to get the bad guy.

02:26:19.000 But the bad guy here, it gets a little bit...

02:26:22.000 It's like, who's the bad guy?

02:26:24.000 Is the bad guy the guy who took steroids so he could hit the ball better?

02:26:28.000 Or is the bad guy the guy that spent hundreds of millions of dollars, taxpayers' money, that could have been spent on schools, that could have been spent on...

02:26:37.000 You know, healthcare, electricity, food for the elderly.

02:26:41.000 All sorts of different things.

02:26:43.000 Hire more cops. 1.00

02:26:44.000 Instead, they spend it going after a fucking baseball player. 1.00

02:26:48.000 We have a wacky set of priorities. 1.00

02:26:51.000 Is all that over? 1.00

02:26:53.000 That witch hunt shit? 1.00

02:26:54.000 Is that over? 1.00

02:26:54.000 Or are they still doing that with guys? 1.00

02:26:56.000 It's still going on.

02:26:59.000 Didn't Roger Clemens just get off the whole thing, and now he's going to start playing baseball again?

02:27:06.000 At 50?

02:27:08.000 Yeah, that brings up something.

02:27:10.000 I don't know that I can...

02:27:11.000 Yeah, I don't think he will.

02:27:13.000 But he has.

02:27:13.000 There is talk about it.

02:27:14.000 I know he pitched him in like a minor league there in Texas.

02:27:18.000 Yeah.

02:27:19.000 Yeah.

02:27:20.000 My understanding is that in a couple weeks...

02:27:28.000 I'm being told it's 99% sure that it's going to happen.

02:27:32.000 There's supposed to be an event at UCLA, an open town hall type setting there.

02:27:41.000 It's supposed to be on Showtime with a panel of experts, myself included and five or six other guys.

02:27:52.000 And the question is, baseball steroid era, Barry Bonds, the greatest hitter of his generation.

02:27:59.000 Roger Clemens, the greatest pitcher of his generation.

02:28:02.000 Do they belong in baseball's Hall of Fame?

02:28:05.000 It's going to be an interesting debate.

02:28:07.000 It is an interesting debate.

02:28:09.000 Carl Lewis.

02:28:11.000 Ben Johnson tested positive and lost his gold medal because he tested positive.

02:28:16.000 But didn't Carl Lewis test positive at Olympics as well?

02:28:20.000 Earlier, he did, yes.

02:28:24.000 At the trials, this all came out in 1988. Let me put that in context of the statistics.

02:28:31.000 They had 100 positive tests.

02:28:36.000 The United States Olympic Committee, and this is back in 1988. 50 of those were covered up.

02:28:43.000 Of those 50 athletes, they won 19 Olympic medals.

02:28:49.000 The ones that were covered up.

02:28:51.000 And Carl is one of those.

02:28:52.000 Oh my God.

02:28:53.000 Now, how do they do that?

02:28:54.000 How do they decide who is covered up and who doesn't?

02:28:56.000 Is it bribery?

02:28:57.000 No.

02:28:58.000 What happened was that they were doing a test and this committee and all the minutes came out.

02:29:05.000 This was published in 2009. In the Orange County Register.

02:29:09.000 And they basically said, well, listen, our whole team will, you know, a lot of it will not be going to the Olympics if we come out with this, so let's just say that this particular testing was experimental, and let's take the B sample and pour it down the drain.

02:29:23.000 Whoa.

02:29:24.000 Because it was just too costly for the team, as far as records are concerned?

02:29:28.000 As far as what would rather...

02:29:30.000 The team going to Seoul to represent the United States, that is the group where they had 100 positives, 50 were covered up, and selectively...

02:29:39.000 He was one of those 50. There was always a deal with that Olympics, that there was corruption in that Olympics because of Roy Jones' loss in the finals against the Korean fighter, which was one of the worst shitty decisions in boxing history, where Roy Jones lit this kid up like a Christmas tree, and at the end of it, they gave the decision to the Korean, and everybody just went, what?! 0.70

02:30:03.000 I mean, in Korea, it was one of the most ridiculous shows of corruption ever. 1.00

02:30:09.000 So let me suggest that when you can, watch this recent 9.79 asterisk show, because they interview all the eight guys that were in the race, but the most interesting part is a friend of Carl Lewis's...

02:30:24.000 And they even interviewed his manager, Joe Douglas, got into the actual drug testing room where Ben Johnson was.

02:30:31.000 And Charlie had told me this as well.

02:30:33.000 Listen, this was a setup here.

02:30:35.000 And he was drinking beer so he could urinate.

02:30:39.000 And they actually showed pictures on this show of this guy sitting next to Ben Johnson and the beer.

02:30:46.000 And he wouldn't go on camera, but at the end, and Charlie always said that it was sabotage, that somebody spiked his beer with a stenozolol, a Winstral tablet.

02:30:56.000 And when they asked the guy to go on the record, he said no, but he made a statement, and they said, well, did you, you know, did you sabotage Ben Johnson and put a Winstral tablet in his beer?

02:31:09.000 And he said, maybe I did, and maybe I didn't.

02:31:13.000 Wait a minute.

02:31:14.000 So Ben Johnson wasn't on steroids when he competed in the Olympics?

02:31:18.000 Well, he was clearly on steroids because it all came out in the Dublin Inquiry later when they brought in all the athletes and his teammates and Charlie Francis.

02:31:26.000 But he had gotten to a point where he was in undetectable levels for testing.

02:31:29.000 They just tapered off in time because there was no out-of-competition testing.

02:31:32.000 So they'd done this many, many times and they just would go off three weeks out knowing that it would take that long to clear.

02:31:39.000 They'd done it many world championships and other meets before.

02:31:42.000 And that particular competition, he came up positive.

02:31:46.000 And didn't he come up really positive, too?

02:31:48.000 Like it would have been a huge mistake?

02:31:50.000 Yes.

02:31:51.000 Yeah, it was a little obvious.

02:31:53.000 Wow, that's amazing.

02:31:54.000 So he was sabotaged.

02:31:55.000 So it's like everybody knew, don't cue the beat, whatever music.

02:32:00.000 Everybody knew that it was a guy that was taking him.

02:32:02.000 Well, this is what they're saying in this story.

02:32:05.000 First of all, how did that guy get in there?

02:32:08.000 Yeah.

02:32:08.000 That's the question.

02:32:10.000 And he's Carl Lewis's friend.

02:32:11.000 And Joe Douglas said, we managed to do what it took to get the credentials to get the guy in there.

02:32:17.000 So...

02:32:18.000 There's always going to be people who cheat.

02:32:19.000 There's always going to be weirdness.

02:32:21.000 What did you think about, like, Margarita with the loaded gloves?

02:32:26.000 Well, that's really bad.

02:32:27.000 That was one of the saddest things ever.

02:32:29.000 Do you remember the Billy Resto days?

02:32:32.000 Panama Lewis and Billy Resto.

02:32:34.000 They took the hide out of a kid's gloves.

02:32:38.000 Billy Costello.

02:32:39.000 Not Billy Costello.

02:32:40.000 I forget the kid's name.

02:32:42.000 But he went blind.

02:32:43.000 Went blind.

02:32:44.000 Lost part of his vision.

02:32:45.000 Couldn't box again.

02:32:46.000 That's full intention.

02:32:47.000 Yeah.

02:32:48.000 It's always been cheating, man.

02:32:50.000 It's always been cheating. 0.89

02:32:51.000 People just winning is so fucking awesome.

02:32:55.000 How do you keep guys from cheating now?

02:32:56.000 If you're working with all these athletes and you have this past, I mean, obviously the threat of going back to jail, I'm sure, isn't enticing to you.

02:33:03.000 But how do you keep athletes on the straight and narrow?

02:33:07.000 The only way that's going to happen is if the people that make the majority of the money from sport, whether that be baseball, football, UFC, Olympics, whoever it is, When they develop a genuine interest, then they can implement a reasonably effective testing program.

02:33:25.000 They're not doing that.

02:33:26.000 Well, the UFC relies on state athletic commissions.

02:33:28.000 It could be said that it's overstepping their boundaries if they incorporate their own testing.

02:33:33.000 It's almost like saying, you don't know what you're doing, Nevada State Athletic Commission. 0.99

02:33:36.000 We're going to do our own shit. 0.99

02:33:38.000 Is that a legitimate argument or no? 0.99

02:33:42.000 I mean, it seems like if you want the sanction of an athletic commission, the idea is that they get paid to do that.

02:33:47.000 They get paid to test people. 0.56

02:33:49.000 So if you come in and you say, look, we're going to do your job because you suck at it, that could ruffle feathers, no? 0.98

02:33:56.000 Of course. 0.98

02:33:57.000 But it should be done anyway?

02:33:58.000 Is that what you're saying?

02:33:58.000 You need a certain standardization.

02:34:01.000 But the athletic commissions are not providing that?

02:34:04.000 Absolutely not.

02:34:05.000 The level of testing they provide is an absolute joke.

02:34:07.000 So they provide a level of testing that is through urine only, correct?

02:34:11.000 That's correct.

02:34:12.000 And it needs to be through blood.

02:34:14.000 It needs to be through both.

02:34:15.000 Both blood and urine.

02:34:17.000 Like EPO is urine.

02:34:19.000 They don't do EPO. Okay.

02:34:20.000 But they should.

02:34:21.000 The carbon isotope ratio for synthetic testosterone, that's a urine test.

02:34:24.000 I read a defense.

02:34:27.000 Someone was saying, well, EPO is not really a drug that concerns us because boxers don't use it.

02:34:33.000 Let me say this.

02:34:35.000 If I had to pick a single drug that would be the most powerful performance enhancer...

02:34:43.000 It's EPO. Yeah.

02:34:44.000 How could they possibly say that? 0.99

02:34:45.000 I read that and I was like, that is the most ridiculous... 0.99

02:34:48.000 You know who said that? 0.97

02:34:48.000 Robert Voy and David Watson. 0.97

02:34:51.000 This was at a hearing with Keith Kaiser, the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

02:34:56.000 They got up and then there was a headline that said, you know, urine testing, not KOs blood testing.

02:35:03.000 They were saying, why do you need to do this test?

02:35:06.000 Why do you need to test for EPO? Nobody's using EPO. But that's an endurance.

02:35:11.000 I mean, how could anybody say that?

02:35:12.000 It's an endurance enhancer, a massive endurance enhancer.

02:35:15.000 In a word, I don't care who you are, Dwayne Chambers described it best one time when he said, it turns you into a machine.

02:35:25.000 How many MMA fighters do you think are on EPO? Well, if in total of all performance-enouncing drugs, it's in the neighborhood of 50%, maybe 20%.

02:35:37.000 So 20% could possibly be on EPO. So when you see people with ridiculous cardio and they can go five rounds at a 100% clip, you get suspicious.

02:35:46.000 It's very easy to get this stuff and use this stuff.

02:35:50.000 And there's no test for it.

02:35:51.000 Well, there is a test for it.

02:35:53.000 But I'm saying Nevada doesn't do it.

02:35:55.000 California doesn't do it. 0.99

02:35:56.000 New York doesn't do it.

02:35:57.000 State commissions do not do it.

02:35:59.000 They only test for what?

02:36:01.000 They test for testosterone versus epitestosterone ratios.

02:36:06.000 They test for things that are minimal testing, right?

02:36:09.000 And the panel of anabolic steroids.

02:36:12.000 So you get that panel of about 30 to 35 steroids, plus the TE ratio is included.

02:36:17.000 Long story short, I used to buy those tests from Quest Diagnostic, the exact company that does the Nevada State Athletic Commission testing, for $80.

02:36:27.000 So what would a blood test, a blood and urine, the correct type of testing cost?

02:36:32.000 How much of a difference are we talking about?

02:36:33.000 EPO is a $400 test.

02:36:35.000 Growth hormone is a $400 test.

02:36:37.000 Okay, so those are two different tests.

02:36:39.000 So let's round it off.

02:36:40.000 Let's call it $1,000.

02:36:41.000 So you're dealing with 11 fighters, 22 fights, $22,000.

02:36:45.000 So a $22,000 savings.

02:36:49.000 How much are they getting paid for those events, though?

02:36:51.000 Seems like they're probably getting a lot of money for those events.

02:36:53.000 They can't scarf out $22,000 for proper testing.

02:36:57.000 Do you think they have pressure?

02:36:58.000 Do you think that it's like the casinos go, listen, there's no need to get crazy.

02:37:03.000 You're testing a little, you're doing a good job.

02:37:05.000 It's all about the potential for financial loss.

02:37:08.000 And is it all about the image?

02:37:10.000 Like it looks like they're testing, but meanwhile they're just making it so that they know, they tell you how to cheat.

02:37:18.000 So they say, listen, come in here and you're good.

02:37:21.000 Yes.

02:37:22.000 So you're like, okay.

02:37:23.000 Yes.

02:37:24.000 Wow.

02:37:24.000 What can be done?

02:37:25.000 What can we do?

02:37:28.000 Implement reasonably effective testing.

02:37:30.000 You don't have to go crazy. 0.92

02:37:31.000 What do they do if they find out when they implement reasonably effective testing and everybody's on, and then when everybody gets off, the performance sucks and it becomes like women trying to chase those Olympics medals that the Russians made when they were hopped up on dick saws? 0.96

02:37:45.000 Okay, I think that answer has been provided by baseball.

02:37:51.000 Look at the home run totals.

02:37:52.000 Right, but they only get tested twice.

02:37:54.000 You said it yourself.

02:37:54.000 They only get tested twice.

02:37:55.000 That's a big difference.

02:37:56.000 And when I say reasonable, that's not reasonable.

02:38:00.000 The point is, they had no testing.

02:38:04.000 They started in 2004. Right.

02:38:06.000 So back in the day, there was no testing, which meant that's like back in the Flojo days.

02:38:12.000 You do whatever you want, as much as you want, at any time, and nobody's paying attention.

02:38:17.000 Flojo died, right?

02:38:18.000 Yes.

02:38:19.000 Did she die as a result of performance-enhancing drugs?

02:38:22.000 My opinion, I think there's a connection.

02:38:24.000 What did she die of?

02:38:25.000 Listen, I've said this before, and I've been told that there were three positive drug tests that were covered up at the Olympic Games, and you have to look at the highly suspicious nature of what happened with Flojo.

02:38:42.000 She was 27 years old.

02:38:44.000 At the height of her economic earning potential.

02:38:47.000 She came home from the Olympic Games and retired.

02:38:51.000 Does that make sense?

02:38:52.000 No.

02:38:53.000 Okay.

02:38:54.000 No, it doesn't.

02:38:54.000 So what do you think was wrong?

02:38:55.000 Well, I've been told that there were three positive drug tests and that she was one of them.

02:39:00.000 Now, you call it a rumor, call it what you want.

02:39:02.000 But I believe that, you know, I was told three specific names of all gold medalists.

02:39:08.000 So they essentially told her it's time to wrap it up because we know you were cheating.

02:39:11.000 Yeah.

02:39:11.000 Well, she was an interesting case, too, because she was, I wouldn't say a mediocre runner, but she was nowhere near the level that she was at her prime just a couple years previous to that.

02:39:22.000 Well, in the 84 Olympics, her 100-meter best was 1096, and 200-meter was 2196. Four years later, in 88, she ran 21.34, so 96 to 34 is 5-6 meters faster, and from 10.96 to 10.49, which is 4-5 meters faster.

02:39:41.000 Jesus Christ, that's fast.

02:39:45.000 Imagine if you're running and she's 5 meters ahead of you. 0.99

02:39:48.000 Many people said that they sold her all kinds of drugs, a 400-meter drug. 0.84

02:39:52.000 Runner from, I believe he was from Seattle, Daryl Robinson, you know, came forward on the Today Show and said that, listen, I sold her all kinds of drugs.

02:40:01.000 That was a sad story.

02:40:03.000 27 years old.

02:40:04.000 How old was she when she died?

02:40:05.000 38 or 9. Ugh.

02:40:08.000 That's a sad story.

02:40:09.000 Now, Lance Armstrong, they're going to get this guy?

02:40:13.000 It seems like now that Nike just...

02:40:14.000 Well, did you hear about what happened today?

02:40:15.000 Yeah, Nike dropped him today.

02:40:17.000 And he stepped down from his position with Livestrong.

02:40:21.000 Yeah, so it seems like the walls are closing in on him now.

02:40:25.000 That's two things to happen in one day like that.

02:40:28.000 It seems like it's almost over.

02:40:29.000 But they have like 500 negative tests from this guy.

02:40:34.000 Some say that's an inflated number.

02:40:36.000 It was closer.

02:40:37.000 He claims 500 to 600. Okay, let's say it's 20. So what does that tell you?

02:40:41.000 Say it's 250. Let's cut his number in half.

02:40:44.000 He just did it right 250 times.

02:40:45.000 What does that tell you about the effectiveness of the testing? 0.99

02:40:48.000 It says it's shit, especially with blood doping, right? 0.99

02:40:51.000 Because they can't really tell that you did that. 1.00

02:40:53.000 How do they tell that you took your blood and froze it and then stuck it back in your body?

02:40:58.000 There's some...

02:40:59.000 They can look at a percentage of young, middle-aged, and older red blood cells, and if that percentage is outside, then have they ever brought a case and made it stick?

02:41:09.000 It's very tough, because that's a subjective test.

02:41:12.000 But here's, you know, just...

02:41:16.000 This is a rumor that I heard, but it makes a lot of sense.

02:41:21.000 This is what I believe they do, is during each and every stage, they wait until they know the testing window is over, and then they re-infuse their red blood cells.

02:41:31.000 They come back at the end of the stage, they extract those red blood cells, so if they get tested in the morning, they're going to be within the normal range.

02:41:40.000 They also take testosterone, either by cream, gel, or patch.

02:41:45.000 Which, as I talked about with baseball players, it goes up and goes down, so by that time in the morning when you would be tested, you would be within the normal TE ratio.

02:41:53.000 The joke that was going around was that with Floyd Landis, that he had a horrible stage 16, came in that night and got drunk and forgot to take the patch off.

02:42:03.000 Tested positive, 11 to 1 is TE ratio in the morning.

02:42:06.000 Really?

02:42:07.000 Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

02:42:10.000 Oh my God, that makes sense.

02:42:11.000 What I'm saying is they're now using this term right under the testers' noses, meaning they're doing this on a daily basis.

02:42:21.000 And did Lance Armstrong get away with it for so long because he was the poster boy, because he was the golden child?

02:42:27.000 Well, they supposedly now are accusing the cycling union...

02:42:33.000 Of helping cover up a positive drug test where he gave $100,000 to them and the next thing you know they had a $60,000 to $70,000 piece of equipment that they were using in the laboratory.

02:42:47.000 Do I think it's possible?

02:42:49.000 I do.

02:42:50.000 Will that ever get to a court of law with a beyond a reasonable doubt standard?

02:42:56.000 I don't know.

02:42:58.000 But were there a lot of people in on it?

02:43:00.000 Of course.

02:43:02.000 That's my opinion.

02:43:03.000 This just didn't happen.

02:43:04.000 Many people knew about this, that were involved in the business.

02:43:07.000 It was good for business, and a lot of people were making a lot of money.

02:43:11.000 I think a lot of people were looking the other way.

02:43:12.000 This is such a fascinating subject.

02:43:14.000 I'm so obsessed with the idea of this constant desire, especially in track and field, to just shave tenths of a second and seconds off of your time.

02:43:24.000 Let's talk about that for just a second because I wrote an article about this in the New York Daily News back starting in – it was right before the Beijing Olympics in 2008.

02:43:35.000 And this is when it first came to my attention.

02:43:38.000 And my opinion is that Memo, the same guy that was in the Balco case and that Nowitzki got no consequence and he's still out there.

02:43:45.000 But I watched the women's 100-meter final at the Jamaican trials.

02:43:52.000 And Veronica Campbell was an Olympic gold medalist and a world champion and, I mean, really just one of the best sprinters expected to win both events at the trials.

02:44:02.000 She ran a very fast 10.88 and came in fourth.

02:44:07.000 Didn't even make the team in the 100 meters.

02:44:09.000 Said, who are these people, these other girls? 1.00

02:44:12.000 Where are they coming from?

02:44:14.000 Well, let's go back and look at Shelley Ann Frazier, who's won the gold medal in London and won the gold medal in Beijing.

02:44:20.000 And if you go back and look at the times that she ran, in 2007, a year before the Beijing Olympics, she ran 11.35.

02:44:30.000 She showed up at Beijing around 1078. That's five meters faster.

02:44:37.000 Now, here's my experience.

02:44:39.000 With Kelly White, I helped her.

02:44:41.000 She obviously used drugs, and she became a double world champion. 1.00

02:44:44.000 Her lifetime PR was 1119. I gave her a very sophisticated drug regimen.

02:44:50.000 She ran 10.85. 0.77

02:44:52.000 So she went from 11.19 to 10.85.

02:44:54.000 This Jamaican girl went from 11.35 to 10.78. 1.00

02:44:58.000 How do you improve five meters in one year?

02:45:02.000 So what happened at the Olympics?

02:45:04.000 They won gold, silver, bronze in the 100 meter.

02:45:06.000 This very small country wins all three medals in the 100 meters.

02:45:10.000 But let's fast forward.

02:45:12.000 What just happened in London is, from the exact same coach, Glenn Mills, there on this very small island, in the 200-meter, they win gold, silver, and bronze.

02:45:25.000 All three places.

02:45:26.000 Not just from the same...

02:45:28.000 There's two track clubs, MVP and Racers Track Club, which is Usain Bolt's team.

02:45:33.000 They won the gold, silver, and bronze.

02:45:36.000 In the 100-meters, they won gold and silver.

02:45:39.000 So they won five out of the six gold medals in the sports.

02:45:42.000 What are they doing?

02:45:42.000 Same coach.

02:45:43.000 What are they doing?

02:45:46.000 Probably a lot of stuff, in my opinion.

02:45:48.000 They're just doing it and tapering off before the Olympics and still keeping the effects.

02:45:52.000 Because they don't go there during the off-season that I described, that October through January period, I believe it's just open season, green light, use and do whatever you want.

02:46:03.000 What's going to happen if they ever do that?

02:46:04.000 How much are time going to drop?

02:46:07.000 Significantly.

02:46:08.000 Significantly.

02:46:08.000 I mean, real significantly.

02:46:10.000 You think track and field is just completely infested.

02:46:13.000 Absolutely.

02:46:13.000 And then here's what comes next.

02:46:16.000 Then the coach says, not only are my guys so good, if I could have had five guys on the team, we would have won the first five places.

02:46:25.000 And sure enough, in the remainder of the season, they had about five more meets after the Olympics in London.

02:46:32.000 Two more guys from all training partners ran times faster than everybody else in the world.

02:46:38.000 So the top five times in the 200 meters in the world are all from the same coach.

02:46:44.000 You're going to get a Jamaican hitman knocking on your door.

02:46:46.000 Victor Conte, I want to talk to you, man. 0.99

02:46:49.000 You got a problem with Jamaicans running fast. 1.00

02:46:53.000 Well, it's the mountain yams. 1.00

02:46:55.000 Yeah, mountain yams are the shit. 1.00

02:46:57.000 And yaks, too. 1.00

02:46:58.000 Right, Brian?

02:46:59.000 Yak me.

02:47:00.000 It's supposed to be good. 0.99

02:47:01.000 Victor, this is a shitstorm you've stirred up for sure. 0.98

02:47:04.000 And I believe you. 0.98

02:47:06.000 I believe you're telling the truth.

02:47:07.000 And it's a fascinating subject to me.

02:47:09.000 It seems like it's a big charade, especially it seems like with track and field.

02:47:14.000 I mean, that just seems really kind of like a crazy game.

02:47:18.000 It's just everybody's doing it, so you have to do it in order to be the best.

02:47:22.000 The times with the women athletes, that's the most telling.

02:47:24.000 That's crazy that they can't even come close to those.

02:47:27.000 Because those women were just bawling. 1.00

02:47:29.000 They were just taking crazy roids.

02:47:30.000 They can't do that anymore.

02:47:31.000 They have to be careful now.

02:47:33.000 Wow. 0.99

02:47:34.000 Fascinating, fascinating shit. 0.97

02:47:35.000 Well, listen, thank you very much for your time. 0.98

02:47:37.000 I really appreciate it.

02:47:39.000 If people want to get a hold of you on Twitter, you can find Victor on Twitter under Victor Conte.

02:47:43.000 C-O-N-T-E. I'm saying it right. 1.00

02:47:45.000 Conte?

02:47:45.000 Conte, yes.

02:47:46.000 Conte.

02:47:46.000 Victor Conte on Twitter.

02:47:48.000 And is there a website they can go to to read anything?

02:47:52.000 It's snack.com.

02:47:53.000 S-N-A-C dot com. 1.00

02:47:55.000 What does that stand for?

02:47:56.000 Scientific Nutrition for Advanced Conditioning.

02:47:58.000 Okay, and that's your...

02:47:59.000 Why conditioning with a K? No, it's S-N-A-C. Oh, I thought you said snack, like S-N-A-K. That's S-N-A-C with no K. I heard it myself.

02:48:07.000 I wanted it to be stupid. 0.98

02:48:09.000 I wanted it to be like comedy with a K. Like, it's comedy night. 1.00

02:48:11.000 Comedy Corner.

02:48:12.000 K-K. Comedy Corner.

02:48:14.000 They do that in my world. 0.99

02:48:15.000 My world's more silly than your world. 0.80

02:48:17.000 My world, if they tested positive for marijuana, we would lose half the great comics of the world. 0.97

02:48:21.000 More than half.

02:48:22.000 More than half.

02:48:23.000 Yeah, we have performance-enhancing drugs, too.

02:48:25.000 They're just more subtle.

02:48:27.000 You're a very fun and smart guy, and I really enjoyed being here with you.

02:48:30.000 Thank you, sir.

02:48:30.000 Thank you for coming on.

02:48:31.000 It was a good conversation.

02:48:32.000 It was very enlightening.

02:48:34.000 I really enjoyed it.

02:48:35.000 Thank you for being so forthcoming.

02:48:36.000 And I think a lot of people got a lot of information out there and enlightened a lot of people as to how things really work.

02:48:42.000 Behind the scenes, especially in track and field, an area that I had never had any knowledge about whatsoever.

02:48:47.000 And the whole Balco story, it's a fascinating story.

02:48:49.000 And I'm glad you're on the straight and narrow, sir.

02:48:51.000 And you're partying with Tommy John, Tommy Chong, rather, in the joint.

02:48:55.000 In the joint, playing pool.

02:48:57.000 Who'd have thunk? 1.00

02:48:58.000 Fucking ice hockey and shit, in the joint. 1.00

02:49:00.000 Getting massages, getting blown by your fucking CO. How crazy is that? 1.00

02:49:05.000 Hot chicks as hookers. 1.00

02:49:06.000 Eat sushi every night. 1.00

02:49:08.000 You can't say.

02:49:09.000 Can you say what prison it was?

02:49:11.000 The Taft Prison.

02:49:12.000 Go for that.

02:49:13.000 Yes, it's 20 miles east of Bakersfield.

02:49:17.000 And by the way, law enforcement officers, please don't arrest these ladies. 1.00

02:49:21.000 What's wrong with a little extra money on the side?

02:49:25.000 Stop hating. 0.98

02:49:26.000 Everybody needs to fucking relax in this country. 0.99

02:49:29.000 We've got a bunch of grown adults telling other grown adults what they can and can't do. 0.99

02:49:32.000 Some of them, they stick them in jails, and then the other grown adults blow them for money.

02:49:36.000 I don't have a problem with that.

02:49:37.000 Frick, do you got a problem with that?

02:49:38.000 No.

02:49:39.000 No.

02:49:40.000 No, ladies and gentlemen.

02:49:41.000 There will be no podcast tomorrow, folks, and there will be none next week either, because next week...

02:49:46.000 I've got to go out of town.

02:49:47.000 But we'll be back.

02:49:49.000 We'll be back strong.

02:49:51.000 We've got a lot of people coming up next month.

02:49:53.000 One of them is Dr. Peter Dewsburg, who is the biologist from the University of California, Berkeley, and he doesn't believe that HIV causes AIDS, and this is going to get really weird.

02:50:03.000 We should bring AIDS blood into the place. 1.00

02:50:05.000 Just drink it.

02:50:05.000 All right, drink it then.

02:50:06.000 Put it on your butthole. 1.00

02:50:07.000 Drink the AIDS blood. 1.00

02:50:09.000 I don't know.

02:50:10.000 We have to...

02:50:11.000 I know this is a very... 0.95

02:50:12.000 This is another case where I'm too stupid to really have this conversation with this guy, so I'm going to have him on, and then I am sure there will be people that want to provide a rebuttal. 0.84

02:50:22.000 I will find someone who is actually scientifically able to break down what was wrong with what Mr. Dewsburg said, and I will allow the two of them, if Mr. Dewsburg wants to come back, to do it together. 0.95

02:50:35.000 It's a fascinating conversation.

02:50:35.000 Bring Dr. Drew.

02:50:37.000 Uh...

02:50:37.000 I don't know if Dr. Drew can hang in that.

02:50:39.000 You've got to have a biologist.

02:50:41.000 You have to have someone who understands retroviruses.

02:50:44.000 I just made a bunch of noises with my mouth and I don't even know what they mean.

02:50:47.000 That's the problem. 0.96

02:50:48.000 I don't know what the fuck a retrovirus is. 0.96

02:50:51.000 It's like older. 0.99

02:50:52.000 It's like you buy in a used store. 0.99

02:50:54.000 Listen, folks, this fucking podcast is over. 1.00

02:50:56.000 We want to thank you very much just for being bad motherfuckers, ladies and gentlemen. 0.99

02:51:01.000 If you want to come see us, Minneapolis is sold out, but San Francisco people, we will be at the Knob Hill Masonic Center 1102. That is November 2nd and November 3rd. 0.98

02:51:12.000 What are you doing that weekend?

02:51:14.000 Whatever you want me to.

02:51:15.000 Want to come up there? 1.00

02:51:15.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

02:51:16.000 Alright, so it'll be Brian Redband, Greg Fitzsimmons, who's a fucking bona fide national headliner, ladies and gentlemen. 0.99

02:51:22.000 He will also be on the show, and me. 0.70

02:51:24.000 That's at the Knob Hill Masonic Center in San Francisco.

02:51:27.000 All the information is available.

02:51:29.000 I think Live Nation is doing that.

02:51:32.000 All of it is online.

02:51:35.000 And also, Seattle.

02:51:37.000 We're at the Moore Theater the next night.

02:51:39.000 Same lineup.

02:51:40.000 And that is the Moore Theater in Seattle, November 3rd.

02:51:44.000 We've got to stop by that podcast studio up there.

02:51:47.000 Yeah.

02:51:49.000 We'll get Voodoo Chicken and do a guest set, too.

02:51:51.000 Voodoo Chicken was good last time we were there.

02:51:53.000 Is he still doing it?

02:51:53.000 I don't know.

02:51:54.000 He'll fucking dust off the act. 1.00

02:51:56.000 Come get right back in there, you fucking silly bitch. 1.00

02:52:01.000 So thanks to everybody for listening to the program. 1.00

02:52:03.000 Thanks to Onnit for sponsoring the show.

02:52:05.000 Go to O-N-N-I-T and use the code name ROGAN and you will save yourself 10% off any and all supplements.

02:52:12.000 We also, besides just the supplements, we carry kettlebells, battle ropes, and now blenders.

02:52:18.000 When you buy a new blender, the Blendtec blender, which is excellent for making the vegetable smoothies, And also Bulletproof Coffee, which by the way, I'm drinking today, ladies and gentlemen.

02:52:27.000 Are you really?

02:52:28.000 Yeah, it makes butter and everything. 0.99

02:52:30.000 It's fucking delicious. 0.98

02:52:31.000 Those Blendtec blenders are available at Onnit. 0.99

02:52:34.000 We sell them far cheaper than anybody else does if they're smart.

02:52:39.000 Because the manufactured retail...

02:52:41.000 I mean, I don't know what everybody is selling it for, but I can tell you what the manufactured retail is, and it is...

02:52:50.000 $650 and we sell it for like $450.

02:52:53.000 I'll tell you right now in one moment.

02:52:55.000 I'm trying to pull up the numbers.

02:52:56.000 What an amazing value.

02:53:01.000 We sell them for $454.

02:53:06.000 The suggested retail is $659.

02:53:10.000 So it's actually less than $200 less.

02:53:12.000 And we give you a free container of hemp force with that.

02:53:15.000 The supplements are all available with a 30-pill, the first 30-pill, 100% money-back guarantee.

02:53:22.000 Try them, you don't like it.

02:53:23.000 It's all based on science.

02:53:25.000 The science is all at Onnit.com.

02:53:26.000 It's all stuff that there's no way we'd be selling if we didn't 100% believe in it. 0.99

02:53:30.000 The Shroom Tech Sport, I take like a motherfucker. 0.99

02:53:33.000 Take it before every workout. 0.99

02:53:34.000 It's all Cordyceps mushrooms and B12. It's all stuff that's been shown to enhance endurance.

02:53:38.000 and the science and all the information again is available at Onnit.com alright you fucking freaks we're taking a whole week off I hope you're going to be okay but we're going to do an Ice House Chronicles tonight so you can check that out but you can only check that out at Death Squad on iTunes alright so go there subscribe and maybe Kevin Pereira will do another podcast soon we have one Monday at noon Oh, snap, son! 0.96

02:54:02.000 Kevin Pereira, one of the funniest fucking guys on the planet. 0.92

02:54:04.000 One of the coolest as well. 0.96

02:54:05.000 Who's also the former host of the Attack of the Show on G4. Now he's doing a podcast on the Death Squad Network.

02:54:12.000 So, go subscribe, you fucking freaks. 0.98

02:54:14.000 And I will be back next week. 1.00

02:54:18.000 I'm going hunting with Brian Cowan. 0.99

02:54:20.000 We're going to go on a fucking raft in Montana. 1.00

02:54:23.000 And shit's going to get real. 0.99

02:54:24.000 I'm going to come back with some stories. 0.99

02:54:26.000 I need to do some things to make some stories.

02:54:28.000 I can't keep talking about mushrooms.

02:54:30.000 Alright?

02:54:30.000 I gotta go.

02:54:32.000 Bye.

02:54:32.000 See you soon.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 18, 2012

Joe Rogan Experience #277 - Victor Conte

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