The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #419 - Lorenzo Hagerty (Part 2)

00:00:03.000 Is it recording?

00:00:05.000 Yes?

00:00:06.000 Yeah, it's good.

00:00:06.000 Okay, good.

00:00:07.000 Beautiful. 0.98

00:00:08.000 Yeah, we always have these things where it hits three hours and we're like, God damn it! 0.95

00:00:12.000 We can't, you know... 0.84

00:00:14.000 Well, at least you don't have a 30 or 60 minute show that you have to put your commercials in the middle and everything.

00:00:19.000 By the way, I'll give a plug for LegalZoom. 0.82

00:00:22.000 When I first came to California, it took me two days in a law library to get up to speed so I could write my will.

00:00:28.000 And I was glad to see that there's still a discount with Rogan because that's my project this month is to redo my will.

00:00:34.000 And, you know, I've known about LegalZoom for a long time and it's a really good group.

00:00:38.000 That's another thing that I think the internet sort of made a lot easier, finding out what your rights are, finding out how the law applies.

00:00:46.000 Lawyers mainly know how to use the library and have their secretaries type up all these things, you know, because they've got go-bys.

00:00:53.000 And so LegalZoom can take care of probably 95% of all your stuff.

00:00:57.000 How did you go from being a lawyer to running a computer company?

00:01:00.000 Well, I was practicing law in Houston, and we had primarily a business law.

00:01:07.000 My partner and I owned a title insurance company, and it was in the heyday in Houston when the savings and loan thing was going on.

00:01:14.000 But one day, our main client came in, and he had a big construction company, and he wanted to sue one of his subcontractors.

00:01:23.000 You know, I looked at all the things.

00:01:24.000 I said, well, Jim, you know, you can file a lawsuit, but you're not going to win because he's in the right here.

00:01:28.000 He says, oh, I know that.

00:01:30.000 I just want to hurt him.

00:01:32.000 So I said, give me just a minute.

00:01:34.000 I walked around to the next office to my partner.

00:01:36.000 I said, figure out what my share of this outfit's worth.

00:01:38.000 I quit.

00:01:38.000 I'm going home.

00:01:39.000 And that was when I just, it had been building up to that because I'd been doing stuff that, I didn't become a lawyer to hurt people and do stuff like that.

00:01:47.000 And So I just walked away from it and I got involved in multi-level marketing.

00:01:53.000 Wow.

00:01:54.000 And what I found out is that if you say, hey, I'm a lawyer and I'm doing this, people just flock to you.

00:02:01.000 I signed up lots of people.

00:02:03.000 Because you're a lawyer doing multi-level?

00:02:04.000 Well, they say, well, if a lawyer's doing it, it's got to be great.

00:02:07.000 So is it like a pyramid scheme?

00:02:08.000 Pyramid company, yeah.

00:02:10.000 We were selling do-it-yourself-at-home facelifts.

00:02:13.000 What?

00:02:14.000 What?

00:02:15.000 What?

00:02:15.000 It was before anybody knew about Aloe Vera, one of the first aloe companies.

00:02:19.000 And it was really easy to sell.

00:02:21.000 We'd do a meeting and a bunch of people would be there, and you'd paint half their face with this stuff and leave it on for like 30 minutes and take it off.

00:02:28.000 And it looked like they're two-faced.

00:02:30.000 You know, one side's a little higher than the other.

00:02:31.000 Sort of like putting, what's that, hemorrhoid medicine on your face or something?

00:02:37.000 What's hemorrhoid medicine?

00:02:38.000 Preparation H. Preparation H, yeah.

00:02:39.000 What happens when you put it on your face?

00:02:40.000 It just tightens you up.

00:02:41.000 It tightens your skin up for an hour or two.

00:02:44.000 So when you put aloe vera on your face...

00:02:45.000 Well, no.

00:02:45.000 This was a whole bunch of...

00:02:46.000 It actually did work.

00:02:48.000 It did tighten up your skin and get rid of some wrinkles for the evening.

00:02:51.000 Really?

00:02:51.000 Yeah.

00:02:51.000 Oh, yeah.

00:02:51.000 It worked.

00:02:51.000 For the evening?

00:02:52.000 For the evening.

00:02:53.000 Yeah.

00:02:53.000 It wasn't permanent.

00:02:53.000 Wow.

00:02:54.000 And we sold a whole variety of things.

00:02:56.000 Why don't actors do that before they make movies?

00:02:58.000 Well, I don't think you can get this stuff anymore.

00:03:00.000 You can't get aloe vera anymore?

00:03:01.000 Well, you can get aloe vera.

00:03:01.000 But this had some powders and stuff.

00:03:03.000 It was a chemical thing.

00:03:05.000 You mixed it all up.

00:03:06.000 What happened? 0.93

00:03:06.000 Did it start fucking up people's faces? 0.93

00:03:08.000 No. 0.89

00:03:08.000 The company went out of business. 0.89

00:03:12.000 I know a lot about these multi-level companies.

00:03:15.000 They all spring from a vitamin company, Neutralite I think it's called, and that's where the DeVos and Van Andel that started Amway came.

00:03:26.000 Neutralite?

00:03:26.000 Yeah, I think Amway finally bought them or something like that.

00:03:30.000 What's that big one?

00:03:31.000 The big one with the leaves?

00:03:34.000 Oh, that's...

00:03:35.000 I'll think of it in a minute.

00:03:37.000 Huge company.

00:03:38.000 Yeah.

00:03:39.000 Anyhow...

00:03:39.000 Herbalife?

00:03:40.000 Herbalife.

00:03:41.000 In fact, one of their first vice presidents came out of this company I was in, Ideal Incorporated.

00:03:47.000 But there was Dare to Be Great, and Coscott, and one that the California Governor Campaign, that guy.

00:03:54.000 Anyhow, I used to know a whole lot about this, and they all sprung from the same core of people at one time.

00:04:00.000 They all knew each other.

00:04:01.000 And I got involved in that for a while, and we were selling all kinds of things.

00:04:04.000 And then my partner and I started a jewelry company.

00:04:07.000 We kind of fell out.

00:04:08.000 And I was into computers, so I started a computer company.

00:04:10.000 It was a pyramid company.

00:04:12.000 And, you know, it was a lot of fun.

00:04:15.000 But, you know, I finally lost the faith because for a while I really believed that you could do these things.

00:04:22.000 You know, we had a woman who was a German refugee that wound up making $20,000 a month and stuff like that.

00:04:28.000 And so those things did happen, but they were so rare.

00:04:31.000 Finally, You know, I was able to see the light.

00:04:35.000 Well, it happened after I started taking MDMA. That's when I got out of the motivational business and everything.

00:04:41.000 The motivational business.

00:04:42.000 That's a slippery business.

00:04:44.000 You know what's fascinating to me?

00:04:46.000 People that have never been successful at business but give motivational seminars on how to be successful at business.

00:04:52.000 Yeah, after my computer company crashed, that's what I got into.

00:04:54.000 That's a fascinating thing, isn't it?

00:04:56.000 That people would...

00:04:57.000 It's sort of like, you know, there's comedy classes that are taught by extremely unfunny people.

00:05:03.000 I believe it.

00:05:03.000 People that have never had a career as a comedian, but they decided to start teaching comedy...

00:05:08.000 And then they started making more money teaching comedy than they ever did doing comedy itself.

00:05:12.000 It's like a lot of that.

00:05:13.000 Back in Boston, there was a guy that was a terrible comedian who was teaching the local comedy class.

00:05:18.000 And I was like, that doesn't make any... 0.99

00:05:20.000 Like, what the fuck? 0.99

00:05:21.000 What's going on here? 1.00

00:05:21.000 You couldn't get a real comedian to teach a comedy class. 1.00

00:05:24.000 They didn't want to have any part of it.

00:05:25.000 And you'd be surprised how many motivational speakers are in great depression all the time.

00:05:29.000 Really?

00:05:30.000 We'd go back after the thing would be over, we'd get off stage, and, oh, gee, my wife is leaving me, and I'm broke, and, you know, all these things.

00:05:38.000 We had more problems than our audience combined, probably.

00:05:41.000 That's hilarious, but you had some good ideas.

00:05:43.000 You just had to figure out how to use them yourself.

00:05:44.000 They were all, you know, from 100 years ago, you know.

00:05:49.000 There's not much new in that field.

00:05:50.000 It's...

00:05:51.000 Well, Anthony Robbins is another one, right?

00:05:53.000 Tony Robbins, yeah.

00:05:54.000 He's super successful at that, but what else has he done?

00:05:56.000 I mean, has he had a successful real business?

00:05:59.000 You know, when he first came on the scene, I just started kicking myself because I said, gosh, I was doing that and I'm better than him, you know?

00:06:05.000 He's very handsome.

00:06:06.000 He's beautiful.

00:06:07.000 Great teeth.

00:06:08.000 Nice skin.

00:06:10.000 He has a lot more confidence than I had.

00:06:13.000 Good voice.

00:06:13.000 Booming voice.

00:06:14.000 Throws karate kicks.

00:06:15.000 But, you know, eventually you kind of push yourself to the end.

00:06:18.000 You start doing all the fire walking and stuff like that.

00:06:22.000 Yeah, that's fire walking.

00:06:24.000 My wife did it and did not get burned.

00:06:26.000 Wow.

00:06:27.000 The first time.

00:06:27.000 You could do it and not get burned, too.

00:06:29.000 Well, no.

00:06:29.000 Why don't you walk quick?

00:06:30.000 I could not do it.

00:06:31.000 Really?

00:06:31.000 Because I'm not going to walk on fire barefoot, you know?

00:06:34.000 Okay, but if you did, you'd be all right.

00:06:36.000 The whole idea is getting through it quickly.

00:06:38.000 If I did, I know I'd get through all right because I wouldn't do it unless I was sure I was going to get through all right.

00:06:44.000 You could think that you were going to be alright and not be alright.

00:06:47.000 Well, that's what happened to her the second time. 0.99

00:06:51.000 Did she walk longer the second time? 0.98

00:06:53.000 I think it was probably the same.

00:06:55.000 Really?

00:06:56.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:06:57.000 I didn't know her then.

00:06:58.000 I probably shouldn't be talking about it. 0.98

00:06:59.000 I get it symbolically, you know, but unless it's fuckery. 0.97

00:07:03.000 Look, we all know fire burns. 0.96

00:07:05.000 Why is fire not burning?

00:07:06.000 Because I don't believe it's going to burn?

00:07:08.000 Boy, I'm not sure about that.

00:07:10.000 I think you might be playing games here.

00:07:11.000 Well, you know, the three laws of taking psychedelics are, number one, cars are real.

00:07:16.000 Number two, fire burns.

00:07:18.000 And number three, gravity is still a law.

00:07:21.000 If you lifted those three things, you can't go wrong.

00:07:23.000 That's like the Bill Hicks joke.

00:07:25.000 Did you ever hear the Bill Hicks joke?

00:07:26.000 Young man on acid, thought he could fly, jumped off the building.

00:07:29.000 And he's like, if he thought he could fly, why didn't he take off from the ground?

00:07:33.000 I did hear that. 1.00

00:07:34.000 You lost a moron. 1.00

00:07:34.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:07:35.000 I remember that.

00:07:37.000 It's so logical.

00:07:38.000 It is logical.

00:07:39.000 It's like, wait a minute. 1.00

00:07:40.000 That guy was an asshole. 1.00

00:07:41.000 Now, he was a Houston guy, right? 1.00

00:07:42.000 Yes.

00:07:42.000 Bill Hicks.

00:07:43.000 See, I'd left Houston by then.

00:07:45.000 When I was going to law school in Houston, the only celebrity I saw that wasn't a celebrity then was Glenn Campbell was singing for tips in this bar I used to go to.

00:07:55.000 But I used to hang out in Lightning Hopkins' bar.

00:07:59.000 He was a black blues guy.

00:08:01.000 Yeah.

00:08:01.000 A couple of us would go down.

00:08:03.000 In Houston?

00:08:03.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:04.000 What was that?

00:08:05.000 Down in the Fifth Ward somewhere, the Third Ward.

00:08:07.000 Whoa, really?

00:08:08.000 Yeah, and we'd have to go in a little group, but we went regularly enough that we got known.

00:08:12.000 We were the only white kids in there, you know.

00:08:14.000 Wow.

00:08:15.000 And he'd...

00:08:18.000 And I said, hey, I can play the spoons.

00:08:21.000 And he says, yeah, give the boys some spoons.

00:08:22.000 Get up here.

00:08:23.000 So I start playing the spoons while he's playing guitar, you know.

00:08:26.000 And he stops and he says, you're in law school, right?

00:08:30.000 And I said, yeah.

00:08:30.000 He says, go back to law school.

00:08:32.000 You'll never make it as a musician. 1.00

00:08:34.000 What an asshole. 1.00

00:08:35.000 Oh, no, no. 1.00

00:08:35.000 He did it in a funny way. 1.00

00:08:37.000 He was actually right.

00:08:39.000 I couldn't keep a beat, you know.

00:08:42.000 Houston had two of the greatest comedians of all time come out of it.

00:08:45.000 Sam Kinison and Bill Hicks.

00:08:46.000 Oh, Kinison too, yeah, that's right.

00:08:47.000 They had that whole Houston annex down back in then.

00:08:51.000 They had like a real creative group of young up-and-coming comedians and they, you know, they started this thing, the Houston Comedy Outlaws.

00:08:57.000 And it was Hicks and Kinison and a bunch of other guys.

00:09:01.000 Fascinating sort of a development.

00:09:03.000 Yeah, I went to law school there in Houston.

00:09:05.000 I taught sailing at Houston Yacht Club.

00:09:06.000 That's how I got there.

00:09:07.000 Well, because of Kinison, they all had this unique style, this very aggressive, in-your-face, thoughtful style of comedy, breaking things down in a very logical way, but making good points, but also being really bold about it.

00:09:24.000 I heard you and I think it was Mark Maron talking about Kinnison.

00:09:28.000 Boy, that really gave me a whole new...

00:09:30.000 Maron has some amazing Kinnison stories.

00:09:33.000 When he was on this podcast, he was talking about doing coke with Kinnison and how he was hearing voices for like a year.

00:09:40.000 And he was a young kid then when he was with him.

00:09:43.000 But can you imagine?

00:09:44.000 He did so much coke, he was hearing voices for a year.

00:09:48.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:09:49.000 Man! 0.99

00:09:50.000 Holy, break your brain, Batman! 1.00

00:09:53.000 I was lucky. 0.99

00:09:53.000 I never liked Coke. 0.99

00:09:54.000 I was lucky I never tried it.

00:09:57.000 The same woman that gave me MDMA for the first time gave me my first line of Coke. 1.00

00:10:02.000 And I said, oh, this is awful, man.

00:10:04.000 It's like being in a dentist's office.

00:10:06.000 And she said, oh, yeah, it's always like that in the beginning.

00:10:08.000 But, you know, after 10, 12 times, you'll get to like it.

00:10:12.000 And I said, you know, I went through that with scotch.

00:10:15.000 And it's cheap and legal.

00:10:17.000 I'm not going to go through that again.

00:10:18.000 Yeah, there's weird things like caviar.

00:10:20.000 It's an acquired taste.

00:10:21.000 Why would you acquire it? 1.00

00:10:23.000 Why would you acquire something that costs $10,000 and tastes like shit? 1.00

00:10:27.000 And if you don't like it to begin with, why acquire it? 1.00

00:10:30.000 Why acquire that?

00:10:31.000 That seems really silly.

00:10:33.000 I never did the cocaine, but I've had a bunch of people near me that had problems with it.

00:10:39.000 I always associate cocaine with a lot of negative things that I'd seen.

00:10:42.000 But one of the biggest ones was I was driving with some friends.

00:10:46.000 We were in Revere, Massachusetts, and there was this two-lane road that we were leaving this area.

00:10:52.000 There was this famous place where we'd go, Kelly's Roast Beef, and everybody would go there and get clams.

00:10:58.000 They had fried clams there.

00:10:59.000 It's like a famous spot.

00:11:00.000 People would travel from far and wide to go to Kelly's.

00:11:03.000 So we were driving back from that, and there was... 1.00

00:11:05.000 This people behind us, people beside us in this car were doing coke, and there was a girl in the backseat, and they had the light, the dome light on, and she was doing coke, and she looks over and sees us looking at her, and she goes like this, fuck you! 1.00

00:11:18.000 She's, like, as they're driving by, just looks at me, and I'm like, anger and craziness in her eyes, fuck you! 1.00

00:11:25.000 And that's how I view coke. 1.00

00:11:26.000 I view coke is like, that lady, I was looking at her, you're doing coke, you have the dome light on, and I'm looking at you and you're mad at me? 0.97

00:11:32.000 I didn't do anything.

00:11:34.000 I've had a few friends that got into it too far and it's a mess.

00:11:38.000 Devastating.

00:11:39.000 It's another thing.

00:11:39.000 It's another one of those things that your body connects to chemicals and it becomes a massive part of your life for some really strange reason.

00:11:48.000 I've only done meth twice.

00:11:50.000 Oh, that's a weird thing to say.

00:11:53.000 And the reason I would never do it again is because it's the one drug that could hook me.

00:11:59.000 Wow.

00:12:00.000 The first time I did, I didn't even know what it was.

00:12:01.000 I was crewing for racing sailboats over in New Orleans at the Mardi Gras regatta.

00:12:07.000 The guy that owned the boat was from Houston, and I was in law school there.

00:12:10.000 And he wanted me to drive his boat back.

00:12:12.000 He was on a trailer, a Dragon.

00:12:14.000 And I said, oh, I can't go back.

00:12:17.000 You know, I'm sleepy.

00:12:18.000 I haven't slept in two days.

00:12:19.000 And he says, here, take this.

00:12:20.000 He gave me this.

00:12:21.000 And I drove straight through from New Orleans to Houston.

00:12:24.000 I was wired, you know.

00:12:26.000 And it was about a year later, I said, hey, I want one more of those things.

00:12:30.000 And he gave it to me, and I thought, you know, I could get really hooked on this stuff.

00:12:35.000 Driver math.

00:12:36.000 What?

00:12:36.000 Truck driver math, yeah.

00:12:38.000 That's the real math, right?

00:12:39.000 I don't know, but I never came near it again after that.

00:12:42.000 I've had some people got in real trouble with that, too, some friends.

00:12:45.000 What is the come down like?

00:12:47.000 It's crash.

00:12:48.000 For me, it was just a total crash.

00:12:50.000 Once I finally came down, I didn't go to class for a couple days, you know?

00:12:54.000 When you were taking pure MDMA, you had no crash at all?

00:12:57.000 I didn't.

00:12:58.000 Not, you know, because nobody knew that you're supposed to, I think.

00:13:02.000 But the other thing is I was working at the time, so maybe I was just so busy I didn't notice it.

00:13:07.000 But I never had a comedown crash when I was in Dallas.

00:13:10.000 I had a big one.

00:13:11.000 I only did it once.

00:13:11.000 The next day I had to perform.

00:13:13.000 I had to do a stand-up set, and I went to a coffee shop in the morning, and I was reading a magazine.

00:13:18.000 I couldn't read.

00:13:19.000 I couldn't read.

00:13:20.000 I couldn't stay focused long enough to get through a sentence.

00:13:24.000 I couldn't get through a paragraph.

00:13:25.000 I couldn't do it.

00:13:26.000 I didn't have it in there. 1.00

00:13:27.000 I was like, wow, I am stupid as fuck. 1.00

00:13:29.000 I was like, what's going on with my brain? 1.00

00:13:31.000 I didn't know about 5-HTP. I didn't know about supplementing afterwards to try to re-kickstart your brain's ability to produce serotonin and dopamine.

00:13:42.000 It didn't sit me well.

00:13:44.000 I enjoyed the experience as far as what I got out of it, but I also thought this would be very dangerous because that reality of the loving, warm, ecstasy feeling when you're locked into it is very appealing.

00:13:56.000 And you could want to do that a lot.

00:13:58.000 And then if you wanted to do that a lot, you would experience that more or enjoy it more than you would enjoy regular reality.

00:14:05.000 And then it would...

00:14:06.000 It's sort of like a point of diminishing returns.

00:14:08.000 You're not getting anything out of this.

00:14:09.000 You build up a tolerance to it.

00:14:10.000 I did more MDMA than is sensible because I didn't know what I was doing.

00:14:17.000 See, that was the problem back then.

00:14:19.000 Nobody knew anything about it in Dallas.

00:14:22.000 It's safe.

00:14:23.000 Don't worry about it.

00:14:24.000 There was just no literature.

00:14:25.000 There was nothing.

00:14:26.000 How did it get started?

00:14:27.000 How did it get started?

00:14:29.000 Well, I don't know if the story ever really got out, but this guy, he went by the name Thomas Crown.

00:14:35.000 He was really the mainstay, although there's a guy that, I'll think of his name in a minute, everybody thought was the number one guy in Dallas.

00:14:45.000 He was a good friend of Tim Leary, and he's out here in LA, and Tim Leary says, here, try this.

00:14:49.000 And that's when he found it.

00:14:50.000 He said, oh, this is great.

00:14:51.000 I'm going to take it back.

00:14:52.000 And he lit up Dallas with the stuff.

00:14:56.000 But I actually did a motivational speech on MDMA one time.

00:15:00.000 Whoa.

00:15:00.000 About two hours after I'd taken it.

00:15:02.000 So I was still pretty much up there.

00:15:04.000 And they'd pay me to do a 30-minute keynote speech at this big corporate thing.

00:15:09.000 And I was an hour into it when they finally caught me off the stage.

00:15:13.000 I had people on their feet.

00:15:15.000 It was one of the best talks I ever gave.

00:15:16.000 Why?

00:15:17.000 They cut you off?

00:15:18.000 Well, I was only supposed to talk 30 minutes.

00:15:19.000 And after an hour, they said, you know, that's really enough.

00:15:22.000 Wow.

00:15:22.000 That's hilarious.

00:15:23.000 There was only one person in the room that knew I was an MDMA. It was one of the women there that... 1.00

00:15:29.000 Actually, she was one of my distributors.

00:15:31.000 And what did she think?

00:15:33.000 She couldn't believe I was going to go on, first of all.

00:15:36.000 Wow. 1.00

00:15:37.000 I did a lot of stupid stuff. 1.00

00:15:39.000 Yeah, well, that sounds like nobody really knew what the hell was going on with that stuff. 1.00

00:15:42.000 You were just taking chances.

00:15:43.000 You were like human guinea pigs.

00:15:45.000 Yeah, in that little interview I did, I told about the time that, well, I took a way excessive dose.

00:15:52.000 What does that mean?

00:15:52.000 What's way excessive?

00:15:54.000 1,500 milligrams.

00:15:55.000 What's an average pill?

00:15:57.000 120 is what you should take.

00:16:00.000 What?

00:16:01.000 120, yeah.

00:16:02.000 So you took 10 times?

00:16:03.000 Yeah.

00:16:04.000 And I still have these two 90-minute cassette tapes that I filled up talking that whole time.

00:16:09.000 I've never had the courage to listen to them again.

00:16:12.000 But from that time, for another seven years, I tried MDMA about five years ago, not long after nothing happened, five years after nothing happened.

00:16:21.000 About seven years after, I finally got MDMA to work again.

00:16:25.000 I only did it once a year after that.

00:16:26.000 And I haven't done it now in, I guess, five, six, seven years.

00:16:29.000 But it really fried my brain.

00:16:32.000 Now, you know, Oprah put this bad news information out about the holes in the brain thing. 0.98

00:16:37.000 And the night before, a couple days before that show aired, her producer was informed by MAPS that this is a, you know, totally bogus.

00:16:45.000 It was a lie they put out there.

00:16:46.000 There's no holes in the brain.

00:16:48.000 It was a blood flow MRI or something like that.

00:16:51.000 And I, you know, maybe I would be a genius today if I hadn't done that.

00:16:56.000 But it, you know, it didn't really fry my brain. 1.00

00:17:01.000 Now, it was so stupid. 1.00

00:17:02.000 I had a monster headache for three or four days. 0.99

00:17:06.000 And MDMA did not work again for a long, long time.

00:17:10.000 But it didn't kill me.

00:17:11.000 And it didn't, I don't think, put holes in my brain.

00:17:15.000 The holes in the brain thing was what everybody said.

00:17:17.000 That was one of those rumors.

00:17:18.000 Well, Oprah did that. 1.00

00:17:19.000 She had this MRI of this woman, and the woman knew that it wasn't a hole in her brain. 0.83

00:17:25.000 Maps got a hold of it, and they really gave her all the information, what this is.

00:17:29.000 It was about blood flow or something.

00:17:31.000 But it was not a hole in her brain.

00:17:33.000 And Oprah's producer knew that going in, and she still let that hit the air. 0.83

00:17:37.000 Sort of like the Benghazi thing, only it didn't get busted. 0.97

00:17:40.000 That's so silly. 0.94

00:17:41.000 Why? 0.98

00:17:42.000 You know, why?

00:17:43.000 Why?

00:17:44.000 Why?

00:17:44.000 But, you know, I think they probably were trying to save people.

00:17:47.000 They're probably trying to, like, scare people off from doing... 0.97

00:17:49.000 And maybe in this day and age, when you're dealing with something that's ultimately, you know, cut with a bunch of other shit. 0.70

00:17:55.000 No, I would never take something that I got at a rave or a party or something like that, that you just can't trust this stuff.

00:18:02.000 And a lot of it's, you know, you don't know who's making it.

00:18:05.000 We at least, you know, had good sources, good supplies.

00:18:07.000 We knew who the chemist was, stuff like that.

00:18:10.000 But today, it's really not safe unless you're the chemist or friend of them.

00:18:15.000 Unfortunately, you know, if all could be fixed in a way...

00:18:19.000 But you don't need to.

00:18:20.000 You've got pot.

00:18:21.000 Yeah.

00:18:21.000 Cannabis is really the miracle.

00:18:24.000 The plant does so much things for you.

00:18:26.000 The hemp plant does.

00:18:28.000 Cannabis is really a medicinal plant.

00:18:30.000 It certainly is, but for PTSD, there's nothing like MDMA. No, MDMA. But see, that would be used with a doctor who knows his supply and stuff like that.

00:18:40.000 Now, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with dancing.

00:18:42.000 I've danced all night on it, too.

00:18:43.000 It's really good.

00:18:44.000 How dare you?

00:18:44.000 Oh, it's wonderful.

00:18:46.000 How old were you when you were dancing all night on MDMA? I was in my 60s.

00:18:50.000 You were just learning.

00:18:51.000 Yeah, I'm just catching up.

00:18:52.000 You know, you kids got ahead of me.

00:18:54.000 Everybody, they're ahead of us.

00:18:55.000 They're ahead of you.

00:18:56.000 They're ahead of me.

00:18:56.000 The kids of today, they're starting from the jump with all the information.

00:19:00.000 They just need to be cautious.

00:19:01.000 Oh, for sure.

00:19:02.000 You don't have to be crazy about these things.

00:19:03.000 It's just so unfortunate when we have so many dangerous drugs that are labeled.

00:19:08.000 They're prescription drugs.

00:19:10.000 Their dosage is clearly marked.

00:19:13.000 We know about them.

00:19:14.000 And yet there's these illegal ones that are just floating around out there, and they're in commerce, they're in connection, money's being exchanged back and forth, people are taking them.

00:19:23.000 There's no way you can ever regulate that unless you make it legal.

00:19:26.000 You can't.

00:19:27.000 Yeah.

00:19:28.000 It's legal, and then you get some kind of a structure to take care of it.

00:19:31.000 But then again, the argument is like, oh, that's going to be legal.

00:19:33.000 Are you going to make meth legal, too?

00:19:34.000 Like, ooh.

00:19:35.000 Start with cannabis.

00:19:36.000 Yeah, boy.

00:19:37.000 And see what happens, you know.

00:19:39.000 Are you down for legal trucker meth?

00:19:41.000 If trucker meth is legal...

00:19:43.000 Well, yeah, because you could regulate it.

00:19:45.000 And you'd regulate it and say, you know, who needs it?

00:19:48.000 Nobody.

00:19:50.000 But still people would use it like crazy. 0.99

00:19:52.000 They'd be way fucked up on it. 0.98

00:19:53.000 Like if they would go to the truck stop. 0.97

00:19:55.000 You know, I really don't ever give much thought to those kind of things because, you know, I'm not an activist in drug policy or stuff like that.

00:20:01.000 And so, you know, mushrooms you can grow at home now.

00:20:04.000 There's a new method to grow them in hydrogen peroxide so you don't have to worry about all this, you know, sanitation stuff.

00:20:11.000 What?

00:20:11.000 You grow mushrooms in hydrogen peroxide?

00:20:13.000 Oh, there's a bunch of YouTube videos about it.

00:20:14.000 I've been out about two years now. 1.00

00:20:15.000 Fucking YouTube. 1.00

00:20:16.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:20:17.000 35 hours every second goes up there, something like that.

00:20:20.000 At least, right?

00:20:21.000 Yeah.

00:20:21.000 Yeah, it's just amazing.

00:20:23.000 It's a crazy time.

00:20:23.000 I'll tell you another thing not to try, not that it's not dangerous, but when I first moved to Florida, a little after that, several years after I moved there, and I'd lost all my connections and stuff.

00:20:35.000 The word on the street was that nutmeg was very similar to MDMA, and you could take some nutmeg.

00:20:43.000 So I got one of those little McCormick tins of nutmeg, and I capped it all.

00:20:48.000 And I took, you know, not the big tin, but the...

00:20:49.000 Capped it, meaning putting capsules?

00:20:50.000 Put them in capsules, yeah.

00:20:51.000 And I took the whole thing at one time.

00:20:53.000 Oh, my God.

00:20:54.000 I got real sweaty.

00:20:57.000 Got a horrible headache.

00:20:59.000 And today at Christmas time, I can't get near the eggnog if it's got nutmeg on it because I'll throw up.

00:21:03.000 That's hilarious!

00:21:05.000 To this day, nutmeg will make me sick.

00:21:08.000 But I have heard of people getting high from nutmeg, so what's that about?

00:21:11.000 That's what I heard too.

00:21:12.000 Well, maybe you have to get the big tin, but the little tin won't do it.

00:21:17.000 A big tin of nutmeg.

00:21:19.000 A little tin will just get you sick, but a big tin will get you high.

00:21:21.000 Well, I don't know.

00:21:22.000 I would not try it myself because a little tin convinced me not to try it again.

00:21:26.000 Yeah, there were some guys on my message board that were experimenting with getting high on nutmeg.

00:21:30.000 I've heard that.

00:21:30.000 I just don't believe it.

00:21:31.000 Is that on Arrowhead?

00:21:32.000 Do they have trip reports on getting high on nutmeg?

00:21:35.000 Maybe they do.

00:21:36.000 I don't know.

00:21:36.000 I know Earth and Fire are friends of mine.

00:21:39.000 Arrowhead.org.

00:21:40.000 That's the first place to go if you're going to do a drug.

00:21:43.000 Yeah, Arrowwood has some horrible...

00:21:45.000 And spend a lot more time there than you spend doing the drug.

00:21:47.000 Yeah, Arrowwood, Nutmeg, let's find out.

00:21:49.000 They have some horrible stories about basalt or something.

00:21:54.000 Yeah, when somebody asked me, well, what's this like?

00:21:57.000 Should I try this?

00:21:57.000 I said, go to Arrowwood and read the bad trip reports.

00:22:01.000 And if you can't handle a bad trip, then don't go.

00:22:04.000 But don't read the good trip reports.

00:22:05.000 Anybody can handle a good trip.

00:22:07.000 Yeah, there is apparently a page on Arrowwood.

00:22:11.000 It's all about Nutmeg.

00:22:13.000 I love this.

00:22:14.000 Airwood provides information about psychoactive drugs to educate, to reduce harms, and to support much-needed policy change.

00:22:22.000 Do you know that some of their big customers, or not customers, but readers, are DEA agents, police agents?

00:22:29.000 Of course!

00:22:29.000 They have a whole separate section for law enforcement and for parents.

00:22:32.000 See, they started out as just a little database for their friends, and now it's one of the most visited websites on the net.

00:22:39.000 It's a huge Huge.

00:22:40.000 So what did DEA agents go there for?

00:22:42.000 Education?

00:22:42.000 Well, to find out more about, you know, a new drug will hit the streets, and that's one of the first places they'll go to find out what it's about.

00:22:48.000 That's interesting.

00:22:49.000 I wonder if that's how they found out about basalts.

00:22:52.000 I don't know.

00:22:53.000 You know, they'd find out about it on the street, but to find out trip reports, you know, how do we know what these kids are on?

00:22:59.000 What's it doing to them?

00:23:00.000 What do we do to them?

00:23:01.000 Do we take them to hospital or put them in jail?

00:23:03.000 Yeah, there's going to come a day when people look back at this day and age and go, God.

00:23:07.000 They were so nutty. 0.99

00:23:09.000 They just made a, well, we're just going to add oxygen to it and fucking sell it. 1.00

00:23:13.000 We take this. 0.98

00:23:14.000 This is illegal to get you 30 years in jail for one ounce.

00:23:17.000 This, however, is exactly the same effects, plus this other weird thing that it does, and you can just buy it as bath salts.

00:23:25.000 They're going to go, why didn't they fix that?

00:23:27.000 Why did they let that go on for years and years and years?

00:23:29.000 Right. 0.99

00:23:30.000 Crazy people. 0.99

00:23:31.000 And polydrugging is a real problem with the young kids. 0.99

00:23:33.000 Polydrugging.

00:23:34.000 Putting a bunch of things together.

00:23:35.000 Candy flipping.

00:23:36.000 Well, you know, some of them are safer than others, but a lot of the polydrugging is going on with prescription drugs now. 0.94

00:23:42.000 And that's really fucking them up.

00:23:44.000 Yeah, well, prescription drugs just with alcohol. 0.85

00:23:46.000 That's a scary one.

00:23:47.000 You know, in the original hearing for cannabis when they were going to make it illegal in 1937, The only medical testimony was from the AMA, and that was in favor of cannabis, and they cut the guy off and threw him out of the hearing. 1.00

00:24:01.000 Get out of here, you fucking father. 0.98

00:24:01.000 But the only medical testimony in scheduling it or taxing it at the time was in favor. 0.98

00:24:09.000 Yeah, we're in some weird times still.

00:24:11.000 It's amazing that 1937's work, you know, 1930, whatever it was, when they made cannabis legal, was a 37?

00:24:17.000 Yeah.

00:24:18.000 To this day, it's still effective.

00:24:20.000 Yeah.

00:24:20.000 A massive amount of money.

00:24:22.000 A couple of generations, you know?

00:24:23.000 Just get grandpa and grandma. 0.75

00:24:26.000 Just get them, and then they're going to tell their kids, and they're going to tell their kids, and everyone's going to be scared.

00:24:30.000 Well, now there's a huge movement in geriatric medical marijuana.

00:24:36.000 Really?

00:24:37.000 And I know one geriatric doctor who is prescribing it for his patients.

00:24:41.000 I've, you know, some anecdotal evidence of older people in nursing homes and all that have had some marvelous things happen to them.

00:24:48.000 So it's finally getting into grandpa and grandma doing this.

00:24:53.000 Wow.

00:24:53.000 That's amazing.

00:24:54.000 It's amazing.

00:24:56.000 After all these years, people are finally starting to catch on.

00:25:00.000 Yeah, I've turned on people in their 60s that were very anti-drug, but they are all of a sudden in all this pain or they're going through cancer treatments or something.

00:25:09.000 They can't keep their food down.

00:25:11.000 And I say, hey, try this brownie. 1.00

00:25:12.000 And pretty soon they're going to the dispensary regularly.

00:25:17.000 Especially if you live your life without it and you thought this is all that's available.

00:25:20.000 And then all of a sudden you have this new hobby.

00:25:23.000 You're old.

00:25:24.000 You can't move around much.

00:25:26.000 Hey, you know, there's something I can do here.

00:25:28.000 Reduces inflammation, too.

00:25:29.000 A lot of people that have, like, serious problems walking around, they take some pot and it just makes you all loosey-goosey.

00:25:34.000 There's a lot of folks that have experienced some pain relief, especially if it's high in CBDs, right?

00:25:39.000 I use it for pain relief.

00:25:41.000 And actually, when I'm in pain, I can't tell that I'm high when I smoke it.

00:25:46.000 But the pain doesn't...

00:25:47.000 I don't think it goes away, except you just don't pay attention to it anymore.

00:25:51.000 I don't know what the mechanism is.

00:25:53.000 Thinking about UFOs.

00:25:55.000 Have you ever had any experience when you were on any sort of a psychedelic that you felt was like...

00:26:04.000 Some sort of a paranormal experience, like a UFO experience, or like being in contact with something or seeing something that you experienced where it felt like it was a real thing?

00:26:16.000 Yeah, several times.

00:26:19.000 Mainly on ayahuasca, but there was this one time that still is just crystal clear to me where there was this, we were sitting in darkness, you know, and It appeared like there was a black curtain in front of me with just a really bright light coming out from the bottom.

00:26:37.000 And from back behind me, this female kind of entity is just very dark and shadowy. 0.94

00:26:46.000 I said, what is that?

00:26:49.000 Now, this could be going on in my head.

00:26:50.000 I admit that.

00:26:51.000 But to me, it was real.

00:26:53.000 And this entity, she said, well, that's what you are really made of.

00:26:58.000 That's your core.

00:26:58.000 Do you want to see it?

00:26:59.000 And she reaches down and starts to pull this up.

00:27:02.000 And it started getting so bright.

00:27:04.000 I said, no, no, no.

00:27:05.000 I got scared.

00:27:07.000 I don't know why.

00:27:08.000 And some of my friends said, I can't believe you didn't let her pick it up.

00:27:12.000 But it was like a message, like, you are this bright, shining spirit behind this thing.

00:27:18.000 To me, that was a real entity encounter of some kind.

00:27:22.000 So you think that that was like an interdimensional thing that you were communicating with?

00:27:26.000 It could have been or it could have been a figment of my imagination.

00:27:28.000 You know, I not tried to distinguish between it because the emotional impact of what went on and what I was thinking and saying and afraid to look at my own core was kind of fascinating, you know?

00:27:40.000 Well, it's also what is the source of the imagination and why is the imagination so obviously affected by different chemicals?

00:27:48.000 And where does the imagination come from?

00:27:50.000 Exactly.

00:27:50.000 Well, the imagination is clearly affected by cannabis, clearly also affected by caffeine, clearly also affected by alcohol, definitely affected by psilocybin, definitely affected by many, many, many other things.

00:28:01.000 Airplane glue will do it.

00:28:02.000 You have ideas that are different than the ideas that you have if you're in a baseline sober consciousness.

00:28:07.000 And the real question then becomes, what exactly is imagination?

00:28:12.000 Is imagination just a series of chemicals interacting with neurons, interacting with thoughts and ideas and learned experiences?

00:28:19.000 Because out of the imagination comes everything that everyone ever used on Earth.

00:28:25.000 The thing that wasn't here already, anything we made, whether it's a phone or a television set or a curtain, that all came out of the imagination.

00:28:34.000 So the imagination isn't just some thing where you think things up and they, well, you know, maybe I just imagined it.

00:28:40.000 Nothing happens without imagination.

00:28:42.000 Exactly.

00:28:42.000 The imagination is the source of every single creation.

00:28:46.000 It's a weird thing when you look at it that way.

00:28:48.000 When you don't look at it as something like, oh, you're just imagining things that aren't really there.

00:28:52.000 Well, you're also imagining the wheel.

00:28:54.000 You're also imagining internet connections.

00:28:56.000 You're also imagining airplanes.

00:28:57.000 Yeah.

00:28:58.000 Somebody had to imagine all of those things.

00:28:59.000 All of that.

00:29:00.000 Without that, there's nothing.

00:29:01.000 Without the human imagination, the world would look radically different.

00:29:06.000 It would be 100% natural and we'd be animals.

00:29:09.000 The imagination is the one step that takes us from animal Into animal that changes its environment radically and starts to transcend itself, starts to symbiotically attach itself to its own creations, which coincidentally came out of the imagination.

00:29:25.000 The imagination created technology that, like the glasses you're wearing, or the watch I'm wearing, or any of the things we're talking through, these microphones, all of that is technology created through the imagination.

00:29:36.000 Right.

00:29:37.000 Shoes are really tech, you know?

00:29:39.000 So when you see something and you say, well, maybe it was my imagination, I'm not exactly sure what that means.

00:29:44.000 See, I don't really care whether it's my imagination or some other multidimensional entity.

00:29:50.000 What I focus on, what am I learning?

00:29:52.000 What am I feeling, first of all?

00:29:54.000 What's my emotional state?

00:29:56.000 And then what am I going to take away from this?

00:29:58.000 What am I going to learn?

00:29:59.000 And recently, a podcast I put out, McKenna says something to the effect of, what makes us think that the entire cosmos can be understood using the neural network of a primate?

00:30:10.000 He says, we're here to observe and appreciate.

00:30:13.000 And I like that.

00:30:14.000 You know, rather than try to figure out black or dark matter and all that, that's great. 0.98

00:30:19.000 I'm glad people are working on it, but I'm not going to worry about it too much.

00:30:22.000 I'm going to appreciate and...

00:30:25.000 Look at the wonder of the world.

00:30:27.000 Look at nature.

00:30:28.000 It's just amazing what's going on.

00:30:30.000 Just look at all the different varieties of insects.

00:30:34.000 They're just freaky, weird, alien creatures that we just take for granted because they've always been here.

00:30:40.000 Well, spiders.

00:30:42.000 We couldn't live without spiders, you know?

00:30:44.000 Or bees. 0.57

00:30:45.000 Or bees, yeah.

00:30:45.000 And that's getting to be a problem.

00:30:47.000 It certainly is.

00:30:48.000 And there's a lot of theories about that, but one of the more fascinating ones to me is that they are absolutely convinced that whether or not they can survive it or not, cell phone signals are damaging bees.

00:30:58.000 Got to be. 0.96

00:30:58.000 It's fucking with the way they communicate with each other. 0.96

00:31:00.000 And people, high-powered lines and cell phone towers, you don't want to live near any of those. 0.94

00:31:04.000 Yeah.

00:31:04.000 Well, I think that high-powered lines, has there been a direct correlation ever established between them and sicknesses?

00:31:11.000 Between some high-powered lines.

00:31:12.000 Like a type?

00:31:13.000 The real super high-frequency power lines, yeah, there have been.

00:31:17.000 In fact, I know somebody who died of cancer quite young.

00:31:21.000 Who lived under those for a long time.

00:31:23.000 Now, that was anecdotal, but I think there have been some studies now showing, because people in certain neighborhoods have sued and things like that.

00:31:32.000 I've been around them before where you feel them.

00:31:34.000 Yeah, you can feel that.

00:31:36.000 Weird.

00:31:36.000 You hear the...

00:31:38.000 You're standing next to...

00:31:40.000 And you can kind of feel a buzz around you.

00:31:43.000 Well, you just realize, like, this is enough energy to kill everyone you've ever met ever instantly.

00:31:48.000 And it's just shooting through these wire lines.

00:31:51.000 Well, we don't know what we're doing to ourselves with all these electronic signals.

00:31:54.000 You know, you can't get away from it.

00:31:56.000 There's Wi-Fi everywhere now, there's cell phones, there's TV, there's radio.

00:32:01.000 Think of the information that's just in this room that we can't see.

00:32:05.000 Right.

00:32:05.000 But with the right equipment we can tune into.

00:32:07.000 Well, that's where it's going to be really weird when that equipment is actually inside your brain itself.

00:32:12.000 Yeah.

00:32:12.000 That's going to be very, very, very, very strange.

00:32:15.000 It's getting there, too, I think.

00:32:16.000 So close.

00:32:17.000 You know, they gave the person the first ticket for wearing Google Glass while driving.

00:32:21.000 I saw that, you know.

00:32:23.000 Fascinating.

00:32:23.000 And I think that was a valid issue of a ticket, too.

00:32:26.000 I don't want people driving and looking at Google at the same time or the net.

00:32:29.000 I don't like people talking on their cell phone unless they have hands-free.

00:32:32.000 My question is, how can they prove that it's active?

00:32:35.000 Because if you just have that thing on your eyes...

00:32:37.000 I don't think you can.

00:32:38.000 I think they can beat that ticket, but I think it sends a message.

00:32:42.000 Yeah, that cops don't like technology.

00:32:46.000 Well, they like the technology they have.

00:32:48.000 Also, the other message is they like writing tickets.

00:32:51.000 They want to write as many as they can.

00:32:53.000 They have to fill quotas.

00:32:55.000 Failing quote is one of the most disgusting things that anybody ever got away with.

00:32:59.000 The idea that there has to be a certain amount of crimes that are committed in a month.

00:33:04.000 Like, what if everybody agreed to only go the speed limit for like a year?

00:33:08.000 What would happen?

00:33:09.000 Would the police officers just explode?

00:33:11.000 I mean, what would they do if we all agreed?

00:33:13.000 That would be an interesting project in some small town if you could get everybody to do it.

00:33:17.000 If nobody has any money that's coming in from speeding tickets, what do they do?

00:33:21.000 Because they rely on it, you know?

00:33:23.000 They rely on it for a source of income.

00:33:25.000 There's a couple little towns on the way to Burning Man.

00:33:27.000 Most of their income is speeding tickets.

00:33:29.000 Isn't that insane?

00:33:29.000 I mean, look, it's one thing if you want to ticket someone because you want to give them an incentive to slow down to make people safer.

00:33:35.000 That's one thing.

00:33:36.000 But as soon as you start developing, like, you have a standard amount of money you have to make every month, you're just saying that people never improve.

00:33:45.000 You're just saying that people will never get better at following the law, never get better at being safer.

00:33:50.000 And just the fact that you bank on that, you have a quota, that's disgusting.

00:33:54.000 There were known speed traps in Texas, you know, that you wouldn't go through this town because it was 15 miles an hour and 16 and get you a ticket.

00:34:01.000 Connecticut's horrible. 0.97

00:34:02.000 Because between Connecticut and Boston, there's a lot of stretches where it's 55 fucking miles an hour. 1.00

00:34:08.000 And not 56. And there's nothing there. 0.94

00:34:10.000 It's a straight line. 0.58

00:34:12.000 And you just want to gun it.

00:34:14.000 You want to get to New York.

00:34:15.000 But between New York and Boston, it's like three and a half hours at 55 miles an hour.

00:34:19.000 We're just going, Jesus Christ.

00:34:20.000 Take the train, yeah. 1.00

00:34:22.000 Everywhere you look some asshole disguised as a tree pointing radar at you. 1.00

00:34:29.000 So stupid. 1.00

00:34:30.000 And now when Jamie put up a picture just a moment ago, but now in Colorado, they're developing this new technology to tell if someone's smoking pot enough. 1.00

00:34:38.000 Look at these things.

00:34:39.000 Tell if someone's smoking pot enough inside of a building for the smell to leak outside.

00:34:46.000 So they've developed this instrument that measures the amount of cannabis smell in the air on the street.

00:34:51.000 And they're going to start to give people tickets for these things.

00:34:54.000 Yeah, that'll help vaporizer sales.

00:34:56.000 Well, this is in Colorado.

00:34:57.000 We made pot legal. 1.00

00:34:59.000 This is so fucking stupid. 1.00

00:35:00.000 Those are the 40% that didn't vote for it. 1.00

00:35:02.000 It may be that, or it may just be the fact that people are just fucking out of control, and there's just weeds blowing everywhere, like tumbleweed.

00:35:10.000 You know, like the smell of weed just wafting through entire communities, and people are catching contact ties, and they've had enough.

00:35:15.000 Well, you know, it used to be you'd put your pot in coffee.

00:35:18.000 And the dogs couldn't smell it for the coffee.

00:35:21.000 Now they've trained the dogs to look for the coffee as well.

00:35:23.000 I don't know if this is true, but a friend of mine told me that what he's been doing is buying bear piss.

00:35:30.000 And wolf piss and sprinkling it around his tires and in his trunk because, as he says, when a drug dog smells it, they go crazy.

00:35:38.000 They forget about drugs totally and they want to go attack a bear, you know?

00:35:42.000 Whoa, so what do the cops do?

00:35:43.000 I don't know.

00:35:44.000 This probably is made up, but it's a great story.

00:35:48.000 I wouldn't think it would be made up.

00:35:49.000 I mean, dogs instinctively freak out and they smell wolves, right?

00:35:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:53.000 And so it beats coffee.

00:35:55.000 Cool.

00:35:55.000 Yeah, that seems to make sense.

00:35:57.000 I wonder if they can get in trouble for pasting wolf piss on your tires.

00:36:01.000 How do they prove that?

00:36:03.000 I don't know.

00:36:04.000 They have a wolf piss nose thing too?

00:36:06.000 They put it on and...

00:36:07.000 Bring in the wolf piss dogs. 1.00

00:36:09.000 They have a wolf piss detecting device just like they have a cannabis smell detecting device.

00:36:13.000 But there's some scents that a dog can't resist.

00:36:15.000 Do you know the one scent that supposedly universally applies to all animals?

00:36:20.000 It brings in deer, it brings in elk, it brings in moose.

00:36:23.000 Beavers piss.

00:36:24.000 Really?

00:36:25.000 Yeah, beaver smell or beaver estrogen, whatever it is, beaver scent.

00:36:30.000 I know a lot of young men that go after beavers.

00:36:32.000 Exactly, which is interesting, that term beaver, because they don't look like... 1.00

00:36:35.000 Look, if your woman's vagina looks like a beaver, take her to a doctor. 1.00

00:36:39.000 There's something wrong. 1.00

00:36:40.000 It's not supposed to look like that.

00:36:41.000 So if you're calling it a beaver, why are you calling it a beaver?

00:36:43.000 Because somebody else did before you.

00:36:45.000 Right.

00:36:45.000 Well, the other idea is that it was created back when they were really hairy.

00:36:49.000 I mean, we don't know about that today.

00:36:51.000 Before the internet.

00:36:52.000 Before porn.

00:36:52.000 Before internet porn, yeah.

00:36:54.000 Yeah, porn and the internet.

00:36:55.000 I think porn got women to trim it down a little bit and the internet came along and it was just fire through bushes. 1.00

00:37:01.000 Fire.

00:37:02.000 The pubes just all vanished.

00:37:04.000 But apparently the scent from the glands of beavers is the best sexual attractant For other animals.

00:37:13.000 Go figure.

00:37:14.000 Yeah, I don't know what that's about.

00:37:16.000 Who thought that the beavers were the studs of the animal world? 1.00

00:37:20.000 They're certainly a weird fucking animal. 0.99

00:37:22.000 I mean, if you see one in real life, and you see their crazy houses that they build next to the lakes with these giant stacks of woods. 1.00

00:37:28.000 I lived in a little lake in Florida, and you take a canoe and paddle out there, and there was a big beaver dam there.

00:37:33.000 You could watch them, and they were busy as beavers.

00:37:35.000 Busy as beavers.

00:37:36.000 And there were otters around there.

00:37:37.000 And people eat them.

00:37:38.000 Yeah.

00:37:39.000 Apparently people eat them.

00:37:40.000 Apparently they don't taste bad.

00:37:42.000 I don't know.

00:37:43.000 I guess when people are starving to death.

00:37:46.000 You know, I watch a lot of those Alaska shows where people live in Alaska and eat whatever they can get a hold of.

00:37:52.000 A lot of people eat beaver up there.

00:37:53.000 They eat beaver tails.

00:37:55.000 They cook the beaver tail.

00:37:57.000 That sounds like it'd be pretty tough.

00:37:59.000 Seal.

00:37:59.000 They eat a lot of seal.

00:38:00.000 Marinate it.

00:38:01.000 Yeah.

00:38:02.000 Seal and beaver and, you know, gotta eat what you gotta eat.

00:38:05.000 Yeah.

00:38:06.000 Whatever the hell you can get a hold of up there.

00:38:08.000 Probably if you didn't know what it was, you'd say, hey, this is kind of interesting meat.

00:38:12.000 Well, they just can't be picky.

00:38:13.000 They just need a source of calories and protein. 0.97

00:38:15.000 A little protein, yeah.

00:38:15.000 Yeah, and that's right there.

00:38:17.000 You take it.

00:38:18.000 Apparently seal oil is very important for them because it's very high in calories and the cold you deal with.

00:38:23.000 Apparently that's one of the worst losses of calories is your body burning off calories to keep itself warm.

00:38:34.000 It's like one of the best ways they say to lose weight is to actually to walk around with like less jacket or less coats than you would feel comfortable with because your body in order to keep warm is actually burning off energy.

00:38:46.000 Oh, that's interesting.

00:38:47.000 Are you going to go hunting in Alaska?

00:38:49.000 No, I'm going in Wisconsin.

00:38:51.000 I'm going actually this weekend.

00:38:52.000 Oh, wow.

00:38:53.000 Yeah.

00:38:54.000 What are you going after?

00:38:55.000 I would go in Alaska, too, though.

00:38:57.000 What are you going after?

00:38:58.000 Deer.

00:38:59.000 There's a guy who's got a farm that's overrun with deer, and he brings in people to hunt them, to manage them every year, because the reality is, as you said, especially in Wisconsin, a lot of them are going to die by predators, a lot of them are going to get hit by cars, a lot of them are going to freeze to death, and in order to keep the herd healthy and manage them,

00:39:16.000 you've got to thin it.

00:39:18.000 You've got to be the wolf.

00:39:19.000 And I want to try to live this entire year.

00:39:22.000 I want to pick a time, like after the first of the year, and try to live the entire year on game meat.

00:39:29.000 I think it's possible.

00:39:32.000 I think if you're going to be a meat eater, you know, to know the exact source of your meat.

00:39:37.000 I think it's probably the best, the most ethical and sort of sane way to do it.

00:39:42.000 The disconnect between us and our food, I love growing food in a garden and then cooking and eating the vegetables that you grow.

00:39:49.000 I mean, I think it's a beautiful thing.

00:39:51.000 It's an interesting connection that you have between where your food actually comes from.

00:39:55.000 I have chickens now and I get fresh eggs from the chickens.

00:39:58.000 And I'm trying to get closer and closer to my food, if that makes any sense.

00:40:02.000 Well, we eat mainly organic, or almost all organic, but mainly vegetables.

00:40:06.000 We eat chicken maybe twice a month, and we have a friend that slaughters his pig once a year, and we know how it's grown and raised and everything.

00:40:14.000 But mainly vegetarians, but all of our food, most of it comes within 25 to 40 miles of our house, you know?

00:40:21.000 That's great.

00:40:21.000 We belong to one of those CSAs, Community Supported Agriculture.

00:40:25.000 And I do most of the cooking, and so it's really fun.

00:40:27.000 You get this box each week, and then you've got to figure out what you're going to do with stuff.

00:40:31.000 That's really cool.

00:40:32.000 Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

00:40:32.000 I would love that.

00:40:34.000 I've talked to my friends about that. 0.95

00:40:36.000 Everyone's so goddamn busy. 0.94

00:40:37.000 We never get anything done. 0.91

00:40:38.000 But the idea of getting together, everybody buying in on a plot of land, and then hiring someone to run that plot of land and produce food for this group of people.

00:40:48.000 Like, say, get 20 people together and say, well, this is our grocery bill for the year.

00:40:52.000 If we can manage a plot of land and buy a plot of land together, everybody pay for 1 20th of it or whatever, and then hire someone to take care of everything and hire a few people, rather.

00:41:02.000 There's got to be some CSAs up here.

00:41:04.000 There must be.

00:41:04.000 I don't know about that.

00:41:05.000 There's several of them in San Diego County, and we've belonged to this one for quite a few years now.

00:41:10.000 And they supply most of the local organic stores.

00:41:13.000 And so what we're getting are the tomatoes that are heirloom.

00:41:18.000 They're not perfect.

00:41:20.000 We're getting food from a farm like it would come, and not everything's the same size and shape and all like that.

00:41:25.000 It's real food.

00:41:25.000 And it's real food.

00:41:26.000 It's picked that day or maybe the afternoon before.

00:41:29.000 And it's real good, fresh food.

00:41:31.000 But that way, we don't have to get our own group together.

00:41:33.000 Now, we've gotten a bunch of people involved in this, and some people don't like Like pomegranates or persimmons or whatever comes sometimes in the basket.

00:41:41.000 And so we swap around with each other and stuff.

00:41:43.000 And so we usually eat everything so I get all the throwaways from everything.

00:41:46.000 My idea had a bit of doomsday to it. 0.99

00:41:48.000 My idea was like if the shit hits the fan... 0.99

00:41:50.000 Well, you're into survival stuff and, you know, you read all that too. 0.99

00:41:53.000 And when I was younger, I was into that too.

00:41:56.000 But now that I'm...

00:41:56.000 You know, my dad, my brother, and my mentor all died at 63. So I'm eight years past my expiration date.

00:42:03.000 So you feel like it's all free time?

00:42:05.000 Sure.

00:42:05.000 I'm just...

00:42:06.000 No, I exercise.

00:42:07.000 I eat well.

00:42:08.000 But, you know, I'm not stressed about that.

00:42:10.000 I see the Google kids are working on longevity things now.

00:42:14.000 And I just commented to a friend yesterday.

00:42:16.000 I said, you ever notice that all of this longevity work is done by people in their 30s and 40s?

00:42:22.000 But by the time you're 70s or 80s, you say...

00:42:24.000 Oh, no.

00:42:24.000 I don't really need that.

00:42:25.000 I've had a lot of fun.

00:42:26.000 I want to have a little bit more fun, but, you know, if you gave me, you said, here's a pill, I'll give you another hundred years.

00:42:32.000 I'd have to think long and hard about that.

00:42:34.000 Really?

00:42:35.000 Yeah.

00:42:35.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:36.000 Because you would worry about deterioration or because you're not having fun?

00:42:39.000 No.

00:42:39.000 Well, because there's a lot of pain in watching your friends go through what they're going to have to go through.

00:42:46.000 Everybody's going to go through love affairs that are broken and tragedies and stuff like that.

00:42:50.000 I just don't want to watch any more of that.

00:42:52.000 Wow.

00:42:53.000 Love affairs. 0.72

00:42:55.000 That's the big one that pushes you over the edge.

00:42:57.000 No, I'm thinking of my grandkids now.

00:42:59.000 Oh, their heart's broken and everything.

00:43:01.000 Oh, that's funny.

00:43:02.000 We were talking about the radio lab thing earlier, about the guy who went through this horrible circumcision process of becoming a runner.

00:43:09.000 Wouldn't want a son to go through it.

00:43:11.000 Yeah.

00:43:11.000 You don't want your kids to go through heartbreak.

00:43:14.000 Right.

00:43:15.000 My children have already gone through heartbreak.

00:43:17.000 Now it's my grandkids.

00:43:18.000 It's important.

00:43:19.000 I told this one of my grandchildren, I said, you know, if I'm not around when some young man breaks your heart, I will come back and haunt him.

00:43:28.000 Why?

00:43:28.000 And she remembers that.

00:43:30.000 The guy, why is it his fault he doesn't want to be around her anymore?

00:43:34.000 Well, see, I have five grandchildren, four girls.

00:43:38.000 If it wasn't for that, I'd have a little problem with women, but I have a new sensitivity to women. 1.00

00:43:43.000 Well, I have a very good sensitivity to women, too, and I have three daughters.

00:43:46.000 But my point is that a lot of heartbreak comes from the fact that people just decide they don't want to be with you anymore, and it doesn't work out right.

00:43:52.000 And people think that when someone leaves them that they're taking something away from them, and they feel this deep sense of loss, and they're connected to the idea.

00:43:59.000 Part of growing as a person is realizing you're going to be okay.

00:44:02.000 And here's where MDMA would be really cool if it was legal.

00:44:06.000 Because when you and your partner get to the point and say, If it's bad for one person, it's going to be bad for both of them, even if you're not talking about it.

00:44:13.000 So if you sat down, got together one evening, just the two of you, did MDMA, and talked it out.

00:44:18.000 Now, I know from personal experience that my marriage, my previous marriage, was really getting rocky when I found MDMA. And we stayed together another six, seven years.

00:44:29.000 Is that good?

00:44:30.000 Yeah, it really worked out good.

00:44:32.000 Because it died after that.

00:44:33.000 Well, the kids were growing.

00:44:35.000 A lot of things happened after that.

00:44:37.000 But it did extend our marriage and extended it in a really good way.

00:44:42.000 Oh, that's good.

00:44:43.000 And we were married 21 years.

00:44:45.000 And we're good friends now.

00:44:47.000 It was a rocky period for a while, but we've worked ourselves through that to where we both respect each other and we realize that it was not a one-way street.

00:44:55.000 But I think that MDMA would be great for couples therapy of people when they hit that seven-year mark or whatever it is.

00:45:03.000 Yeah.

00:45:05.000 Well, I think there's a lot of things that people hold in and they repress in relationships and don't communicate about.

00:45:10.000 And then sometimes a psychedelic journey together can open those ideas up and you start talking about things and you find out that there's been a misunderstanding all along or that it could have been a lack of communication, that you could have worked things out much better, much easier a long time ago, or that you're both feeling the same way, that you both want to move on.

00:45:25.000 You just don't know how to do it.

00:45:26.000 You know, I've had one experience where I... It went on for months, something was building up, and finally, you know, I got it out, and she said, huh, that's no big deal, you know?

00:45:36.000 And it's something that had been a big deal to me for a long time, and it turned out, if I'd just been talking about it, I would have had a month of bliss instead of hell, you know?

00:45:44.000 So, communication is the key, and there are some things that help you communicate.

00:45:48.000 Pod helps you communicate.

00:45:49.000 Yeah, and don't you think that those things and those heartaches, that's part of what makes you a person.

00:45:54.000 It's information.

00:45:55.000 You have to get that information.

00:45:56.000 It's feedback.

00:45:57.000 Now, I wouldn't want to not have any of my heartbreaks and stuff like that.

00:46:01.000 You just don't want to see your grandchildren.

00:46:02.000 I just don't want to see it happen to somebody else.

00:46:03.000 I understand, and I agree to a certain extent, but I think it's very important that everybody goes through a certain amount of it, just to understand what it's about.

00:46:11.000 Well, you don't have a choice.

00:46:12.000 You don't.

00:46:13.000 Look, I've had friends that have gone through it where I know they became better people because of it.

00:46:18.000 I have a friend who went through a devastating breakup, and now he laughs about the idea of being stuck with that woman.

00:46:24.000 You know, back then he thought there was no way he could live without her.

00:46:28.000 It doesn't matter what happens to you, how big the tragedy is, that after enough time passes, Eventually, that becomes one of your funniest stories.

00:46:37.000 Oh, I doubt it.

00:46:38.000 Oh, no.

00:46:39.000 Jesus Christ.

00:46:39.000 What if your kid was eaten by a wolf in front of you?

00:46:42.000 What are you talking about? 1.00

00:46:44.000 What if you fucking saw your family die in a plane crash? 1.00

00:46:47.000 Okay, I'm thinking things happened to me. 1.00

00:46:48.000 Oh, fucking Christ. 0.98

00:46:49.000 But, you know, if you think about some things that happened, seemed to be a tragedy at the time, and usually they're not between people, you know, cars. 0.99

00:46:55.000 I'm just talking about breakups.

00:46:57.000 I'm talking about getting fired.

00:46:59.000 I'm talking about things that are not really devastating.

00:47:01.000 Getting fired is a good thing.

00:47:03.000 I've had that happen.

00:47:04.000 Sometimes.

00:47:04.000 That can turn into a good thing.

00:47:06.000 It can be a changing experience.

00:47:08.000 And change, I think, oftentimes opens up the door for good.

00:47:11.000 Change opens up the door for good because it gives you a newfound focus.

00:47:15.000 If you survive it, you're going to be stronger.

00:47:17.000 Yeah, every time I've, like, had something happen to me where I had to rethink things, that's always been a good thing.

00:47:22.000 Oh, yeah.

00:47:22.000 And when you get fired, you go, all right, what are we doing here?

00:47:25.000 And all of a sudden, you get this new motivation.

00:47:26.000 And I realize, objectively, this would be a good thing for my grandkids when it happens to them.

00:47:30.000 I just don't want to go through it with them.

00:47:32.000 That's part about being a grandpa.

00:47:33.000 I know.

00:47:34.000 Isn't that what they always say, that the strictest parents were always, like, the most lenient grandparents?

00:47:38.000 I wasn't a strict parent, though.

00:47:40.000 Even more so then.

00:47:41.000 You're even more lenient.

00:47:43.000 Yeah, the idea, especially when you're an older person and you've experienced so much pain and hardship and you see the innocence of children is how beautiful it is.

00:47:51.000 They don't know any racism yet.

00:47:53.000 They don't know any homophobia yet.

00:47:55.000 They don't know any...

00:47:57.000 Blind, unobjective hate.

00:47:59.000 They don't know the disillusion of government.

00:48:01.000 They don't know all this.

00:48:02.000 Right.

00:48:03.000 They don't know any of this yet. 0.98

00:48:04.000 They don't know the rebellion against taxing and all the different aspects of society that bring people to this hysterical freakout point where you're like, this fucking thing is, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. 0.98

00:48:20.000 I love that. 0.98

00:48:22.000 I love that.

00:48:23.000 Yeah, they don't have that.

00:48:24.000 They have, you know, you stepped on my toe.

00:48:27.000 They have, that's my toy.

00:48:29.000 But relatively speaking, these are big problems for them, too.

00:48:32.000 I mean, all the little kid problems that we just have to learn how to work our way through them.

00:48:36.000 My three-year-old has a way bigger problem with my five-year-old taking one of her toys than I have with anything in life.

00:48:44.000 My five-year-old takes her toy and she's like, ah! 0.86

00:48:47.000 She screams. 0.51

00:48:49.000 Tears are flying out of her face.

00:48:51.000 That never happens to me.

00:48:52.000 So for her, that's a devastating apocalypse.

00:48:55.000 It's a huge problem.

00:48:55.000 Apocalypse of toys.

00:48:57.000 It really is.

00:48:58.000 It's relative, relatively speaking.

00:49:00.000 And you have to address it that way.

00:49:02.000 You have to sort of respect the fact that they actually are freaking out.

00:49:06.000 And although it doesn't seem normal to you, you're a grown adult.

00:49:09.000 Right. 0.99

00:49:10.000 But for a three-year-old, this is a fucking real tough moment. 0.99

00:49:11.000 You've got to acknowledge that this is a real serious thing for them. 0.99

00:49:15.000 You've got to treat them like adults.

00:49:17.000 My parents didn't. 1.00

00:49:18.000 Shut up! 1.00

00:49:19.000 That's how I grew up. 1.00

00:49:20.000 Shut up. 1.00

00:49:21.000 Shut your mouth. 1.00

00:49:21.000 I'll break both your legs. 1.00

00:49:22.000 That's the type of shit I heard. 1.00

00:49:24.000 I was really lucky. 1.00

00:49:25.000 I grew up in an Ozzie and Harriet family.

00:49:27.000 It was school.

00:49:28.000 It was my problem.

00:49:29.000 I couldn't have asked for better parents.

00:49:31.000 That's amazing.

00:49:32.000 Look how you turned out.

00:49:33.000 Ecstasy dealer in Dallas. 0.97

00:49:35.000 Drug dealer.

00:49:37.000 Sends him to college and he deals with drugs.

00:49:40.000 Hosting a drug podcast. 0.99

00:49:42.000 The guy's crazy.

00:49:43.000 What is this book that you wrote, The Spirit of the Internet?

00:49:45.000 I wrote that in 2000, actually.

00:49:47.000 It's one of the first books that compares the internet to a psychedelic drug.

00:49:51.000 Speculations on the Evolution of Global Consciousness.

00:49:55.000 Wow, look at you, you fresh-faced little young.

00:49:57.000 Yeah, that's a long time ago.

00:49:59.000 2000, when you wrote this?

00:50:00.000 That's in 2000, yeah.

00:50:01.000 13 years ago.

00:50:03.000 Isn't that amazing that that was 13 years ago?

00:50:04.000 That was the last nonfiction I wrote.

00:50:06.000 I've got a fiction book up now that's the first of a quartet I'm writing, but I went to fiction because it's so much more fun.

00:50:13.000 Do you remember, so did Graham Hancock, do you remember when people thought that the world was going to end in 2000?

00:50:19.000 Oh, yeah.

00:50:20.000 Y2K. That was a big deal, man.

00:50:23.000 See, I got involved in Y2K in about 1995 because we set aside millions of dollars to fix all those problems.

00:50:31.000 And most of the software industry did.

00:50:33.000 I mean, there was a huge thing.

00:50:35.000 And the press only picked up in the last, you know, nine months or something.

00:50:39.000 And we'd already spent millions of dollars and years and years of work.

00:50:43.000 There's specialized companies working on it.

00:50:45.000 And so I really didn't think anything bad was going to happen.

00:50:48.000 I wouldn't want to be somewhere in an airplane right then because there were going to be a few glitches.

00:50:53.000 Well, I didn't think the airplane would crash.

00:50:55.000 I thought I could get stranded somewhere and they couldn't get my reservations or something.

00:50:59.000 Oh, right, right, right.

00:50:59.000 I wasn't worried about the plane itself.

00:51:01.000 That was a fear, though, like air traffic controllers, that their computer systems were going to go down.

00:51:06.000 Yeah, there was a potential for that, but it was nothing like the press made it. 0.89

00:51:09.000 What the fuck did they do for air traffic controllers before they were computers? 0.96

00:51:13.000 Eyeball, I guess. 0.99

00:51:14.000 Radio and eyeball.

00:51:15.000 Like in the 1960s, how did they describe, like how, I guess it was like coming in at 30,000 feet, you know, 25 degrees north latitude.

00:51:23.000 I guess they talked them down.

00:51:24.000 I don't know.

00:51:25.000 I'm a commercial pilot, by the way.

00:51:27.000 Are you really?

00:51:27.000 But it's restricted to hot air balloons.

00:51:30.000 You're a commercial hot air balloon?

00:51:31.000 It's a commercial pilot, and it says, restricted to lighter-than-air aircraft.

00:51:35.000 Lighter-than-air aircraft.

00:51:37.000 That's fascinating.

00:51:38.000 I don't have a balloon anymore, but I used to fly balloons, yeah.

00:51:41.000 Whoa, that's got to be spooky.

00:51:42.000 Oh, they're great fun.

00:51:43.000 What is that like when you're up in a basket near space?

00:51:46.000 It's just awesome because, now it gets loud when you burn, but then when you're not burning, you're just floating, it's quiet, and you can hear the sound, you know, there's no obstruction, so you can hear people talking on the ground.

00:51:57.000 In Dallas, there was this one track that we would take on Sunday morning because there was a A woman who would lay out in her backyard by the lake. 0.99

00:52:04.000 Naked?

00:52:04.000 Naked, yeah.

00:52:04.000 Hollow.

00:52:04.000 And so we would come in, we'd burn, and then we'd come up high so that we'd coast down in low and come over the lake and just, and then we'd say, good morning.

00:52:14.000 She'd jump, you know. 0.89

00:52:15.000 How rude.

00:52:16.000 Yeah, it was, you could hear everything.

00:52:18.000 In Texas, of course, you'd fly over on Sunday morning and see pickup trucks with people passed out in the back of them and stuff.

00:52:24.000 Yeah.

00:52:24.000 Wow.

00:52:24.000 We'd yell at them.

00:52:25.000 How dangerous is it, though?

00:52:26.000 It seems like it's pretty dangerous.

00:52:27.000 The reason I quit is because I wasn't paying close enough attention.

00:52:31.000 I almost hit a power line.

00:52:33.000 And it scared me so much.

00:52:35.000 And I was flying people for money and stuff at the time.

00:52:37.000 Oh, my God.

00:52:38.000 I got wrapped up in the conversation these guys were having.

00:52:40.000 That's my problem.

00:52:41.000 I'm paying attention to them more than the flying.

00:52:44.000 And they didn't know we had a close call.

00:52:46.000 I knew we had a close call.

00:52:47.000 How close?

00:52:48.000 Not that close.

00:52:50.000 Close enough.

00:52:51.000 I was coming down, and I didn't burn soon enough, and so it takes a while to get your momentum back up.

00:52:58.000 And, you know, I cleared it by 50 feet, but, you know, I should have cleared it by 500 feet or something like that.

00:53:03.000 And I was coming in for a landing, I guess.

00:53:05.000 Anyhow, it scared the hell out of me, and I said, you know, that's it.

00:53:08.000 How many people have died hitting power lines?

00:53:10.000 Oh, that's mainly what's happened to people in balloons.

00:53:13.000 Oh, God.

00:53:14.000 Not all that many compared to the number of people flying.

00:53:17.000 You know, it's safer than regular aircraft.

00:53:19.000 Now, are you harnessed in when you're up there?

00:53:20.000 Oh, no.

00:53:21.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:53:22.000 No, I used to sit on the edge of the basket, you know, and burn.

00:53:25.000 Really?

00:53:25.000 Oh, yeah.

00:53:26.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

00:53:27.000 What if a crazy rebel wind came along and knocked you off? 1.00

00:53:31.000 Well, you wouldn't have launched.

00:53:32.000 If it's over 10 miles an hour, you wouldn't launch because you'd have a lot of trouble.

00:53:36.000 That looks so spooky.

00:53:37.000 I'm just curling my toes just sitting there looking at that video.

00:53:40.000 We'd go to these air shows where they'd bring in biplanes and stuff like that.

00:53:43.000 And for the balloons, they would put up a pole in the middle of the airfield with keys to a Cadillac or something on it.

00:53:51.000 And you had to go five miles away, anywhere in the radius of five miles away, and launch, and whoever could grab the keys got the balloon.

00:53:58.000 Wow.

00:53:58.000 What if they collide into each other?

00:54:00.000 Well, you'd kind of bounce off, if you're at the same altitude, at least.

00:54:04.000 But it rules the road, so you're not supposed to do that.

00:54:07.000 But nobody in any of the things I ever flew in ever got the keys.

00:54:11.000 But you'd have a beanbag, too, so you'd throw that, and whoever got closest would win money or something like that.

00:54:15.000 Wow.

00:54:16.000 It's great fun.

00:54:17.000 My ex-wife took me on a balloon ride for my 40th birthday.

00:54:21.000 And on the way back, I said, well, how much do these things cost?

00:54:24.000 How do you get started?

00:54:25.000 And the next morning, I was taking lessons.

00:54:26.000 I had a lot of money then.

00:54:28.000 How much does it cost to get a balloon?

00:54:29.000 A balloon's about $35,000.

00:54:31.000 It was back when I bought it, yeah. 0.97

00:54:33.000 And how do you fold that bitch up once you're done flying? 1.00

00:54:35.000 Oh, they pack into a basket that's... 0.99

00:54:38.000 Oh, maybe a third of the size of this table.

00:54:41.000 Wow.

00:54:42.000 But then you have your basket, too, so you have a trailer behind your car. 0.99

00:54:45.000 And do you have a parachute up there or anything in case the shit hits the fan? 0.99

00:54:48.000 Oh, no. 0.99

00:54:49.000 Nothing?

00:54:50.000 Nah.

00:54:50.000 Dude.

00:54:51.000 I had one guy wanted to pay me to take him up in a parachute, and he wanted to jump out, but I didn't want to do it because once the guy jumps out, you get so much lighter, and if you shoot up too fast, you'll collapse the envelope.

00:55:03.000 That doesn't happen very often, but they're really safe.

00:55:06.000 They're really safe.

00:55:06.000 They're a lot of fun.

00:55:08.000 Wow.

00:55:09.000 That sounds scary.

00:55:10.000 How do you lower yourself?

00:55:12.000 Do you have to lower it naturally?

00:55:13.000 Well, there's a hole in the top.

00:55:15.000 And you have a line that goes through it, a rope.

00:55:17.000 And you pull it and bleed air out of the top and let it go.

00:55:20.000 And then when you're actually landing, the top is held in by Velcro.

00:55:24.000 And so, except for the little flap that's open, when you're just ready to land, you rip that, it's called pull the top out.

00:55:31.000 You pull the top out, and then it'll deflate and land down.

00:55:33.000 Sometimes your landings are a little rough.

00:55:35.000 You know, I've had landings where I dragged for 50 or 100 yards, where I bounced up and all.

00:55:40.000 You know, that conditions sometimes make it tough.

00:55:44.000 In North Texas at the time, you had to be really...

00:55:47.000 You know, you're allowed to land anywhere when you're landing.

00:55:50.000 You know, the FAA lets you because if you're out of fuel.

00:55:54.000 And there was this one farm up in North Texas, up by Cisco, I think it was.

00:55:59.000 And whenever the balloons would come and landing, you could see dust coming on these gravel roads from two directions.

00:56:04.000 One would be this farmer with his pickup and his shotgun, and the other would be the sheriff to come to protect you because the farmer hated you landing on their lawn.

00:56:11.000 You know, when ballooning started in France...

00:56:14.000 They would carry a bottle of champagne to give to the farmer when they landed as, hey, thank you for letting us land here.

00:56:20.000 Here's the champagne.

00:56:21.000 When ballooning started in the United States, the balloonists never gave it to the landowner.

00:56:25.000 They drank it themselves.

00:56:27.000 Champagne and propane, breakfast to balloonists.

00:56:30.000 How rude.

00:56:31.000 That's why they ruined the whole thing.

00:56:33.000 That looks like Albuquerque, yeah.

00:56:35.000 There's one in Colorado, too, in Colorado Springs that we went to.

00:56:38.000 Yeah, the woman that taught me the balloon moved to Colorado Springs to fly. 1.00

00:56:41.000 Yeah, we went there to see it, but there was bad weather, so they never launched.

00:56:45.000 See, you've got to do it at sunrise and sunset, a couple hours after sunrise and a couple hours before sunset.

00:56:53.000 That's the only time the air is stable enough.

00:56:55.000 Have you ever met anybody that was up in a balloon and saw a UFO? No.

00:56:59.000 No, I mean, it's too early in the day.

00:57:01.000 Plus, you're looking at other things.

00:57:03.000 How convenient.

00:57:03.000 What most people like to do on their first balloon ride is pick leaves from the top of a tree.

00:57:08.000 Wow.

00:57:08.000 For some reason, that's a big thrill, you know.

00:57:10.000 So we go and skim the trees and they can pick leaves.

00:57:13.000 Wow.

00:57:14.000 That's weird.

00:57:15.000 Pretty fun.

00:57:16.000 It's weird that we figured out how to float around in the sky.

00:57:21.000 Yeah.

00:57:21.000 You know, it's just a matter of time before we figure out how to do it with suits.

00:57:24.000 Well, you know, some jetpacks are coming around pretty good now.

00:57:27.000 Yeah.

00:57:28.000 Well, they've got guys that have those wingsuits that jump off cliffs.

00:57:31.000 Oh, yeah. 0.95

00:57:32.000 Psychopaths.

00:57:32.000 Those are awesome.

00:57:32.000 Those guys are nuts.

00:57:34.000 Oh, I can hardly watch those videos sometimes. 0.99

00:57:37.000 It's so hard for me to watch.

00:57:38.000 Oh.

00:57:39.000 There's one where a guy crashes.

00:57:40.000 It's really hard to watch.

00:57:42.000 That one I haven't seen.

00:57:43.000 But it's just a matter of time before they figure out something with a wing.

00:57:47.000 That technology is going to grow, I think.

00:57:51.000 Everything is going to grow.

00:57:52.000 If they have a jetpack now, and they do.

00:57:55.000 I watched one when I was in Denver.

00:57:57.000 My friend Willie has a KLPJ. The radio station had a guy come in that's a...

00:58:07.000 That had a jetpack guy come in and he launched a jetpack in the parking lot and flew through the air for like 10 seconds.

00:58:12.000 You can only do it for like 10 seconds.

00:58:14.000 And it was like within X amount of years we're going to be able to do five minutes and then X amount of years after that they think they're going to figure out some sort of power source that's going to be able to make it a viable mode of transportation.

00:58:26.000 But it was very complicated as far as like the controlling.

00:58:30.000 Oh, it's got to be, yeah.

00:58:30.000 The yaw and what is it called?

00:58:32.000 Pitch.

00:58:33.000 Pitch and yaw.

00:58:34.000 Yeah, apparently it's like it's not A simple thing to figure out how to do it right.

00:58:38.000 We didn't have to learn that to get a license for balloons because, you know, it's just up and down.

00:58:42.000 What do they have to learn?

00:58:43.000 Weather, clouds.

00:58:45.000 You have to learn about procedures with the FAA because you have to call the FAA in the morning, get a weather report and all, and you tell them where you're going to launch so they know some balloons are going to be in the area.

00:58:53.000 How much different is that than a blimp?

00:58:55.000 Can you target a blimp?

00:58:57.000 I've never been in a blimp.

00:58:58.000 Did you pilot one with your license?

00:59:00.000 Oh, no.

00:59:00.000 No.

00:59:01.000 It's lighter than air.

00:59:01.000 Well...

00:59:03.000 Maybe.

00:59:03.000 I don't know anybody crazy enough to let me do it, but I guess that would be legal.

00:59:08.000 It's lighter than aircraft, yeah.

00:59:09.000 Do you have to renew that license, or is that once you get it, you got it?

00:59:12.000 That's the crazy thing.

00:59:14.000 You don't ever have to renew it, but you have to have a check flight every year, I think, with somebody else who's a commercial pilot.

00:59:22.000 So all you have to do is get a friend, go up, take a ride with you, and you're current again.

00:59:26.000 I'm not current.

00:59:27.000 What was that one you just put up, Jamie?

00:59:28.000 Lady Gaga and a dress that flies.

00:59:30.000 Lady Gaga?

00:59:31.000 The actual Lady Gaga? 0.99

00:59:32.000 Yeah, it's like remote-controlled.

00:59:35.000 Oh, so is it Lady Gaga or is it a toy?

00:59:37.000 It's Lady Gaga. 0.99

00:59:39.000 So Lady Gaga is in a jetpack.

00:59:41.000 Okay, here she is.

00:59:42.000 She's got a helmet on.

00:59:45.000 Let me see this.

00:59:46.000 Will you show us after it's over? 0.99

00:59:49.000 So she climbs into this fucking thing and flies around? 1.00

00:59:56.000 I didn't think jetpacks could be annoying, but I was wrong. 1.00

00:59:59.000 Look, there's Lady Gaga in a jetpack. 1.00

01:00:02.000 Humans, we ruin everything. 1.00

01:00:04.000 This is so stupid. 1.00

01:00:05.000 She's connected by wires. 1.00

01:00:06.000 Shut this off. 1.00

01:00:07.000 This is a fucking charade. 1.00

01:00:08.000 It's not even really a jetpack. 1.00

01:00:10.000 She's all wired up and everything like that.

01:00:11.000 It's more like a little helicopter. 0.99

01:00:12.000 Yeah, that's horseshit. 0.98

01:00:13.000 That's what that is. 0.99

01:00:14.000 It's wired.

01:00:15.000 But, you know, there have been guys going to stadiums, football stadiums, in those jetpacks.

01:00:19.000 Yeah, well, there's that one guy that landed.

01:00:21.000 He was in the middle of a boxing match.

01:00:23.000 Evander Holyfield was fighting Riddick Bowe, and the guy landed.

01:00:26.000 He had, like, a parachute connected to fans, and he called himself, like, the fan man.

01:00:31.000 I know what you mean.

01:00:31.000 Remember that?

01:00:32.000 And they landed, and it delayed the fight for, like, a half an hour while they had to arrest this guy and bring in police, and they beat the guy up and everything like that.

01:00:39.000 And then it sort of changed the atmosphere of the fight because there was a big break in the middle of the fight and everybody cooled off and then had to go at it again.

01:00:48.000 I used to walk in the bluffs down by Del Mar, which are up maybe 30 feet or something.

01:00:53.000 And one day, a guy came by in one of those.

01:00:55.000 He was a parachute, had a big fan on the back, and he was at eye level with me.

01:00:59.000 And he says, you know, hello, hello.

01:01:01.000 And he's moving very slowly.

01:01:03.000 Yeah, this is the video.

01:01:05.000 Riddick Bowe and Evander Holyfield are fighting.

01:01:07.000 And look, they stop, and they're like, what the hell?

01:01:10.000 And they're looking at this, boom, the guy lands ringside in the crowd.

01:01:14.000 They should have turned Holyfield down into him.

01:01:17.000 Well, they're in the middle of a fight.

01:01:19.000 He has other big, more important things to do. 0.99

01:01:21.000 They just beat the shit out of this guy, though. 0.96

01:01:22.000 I can see why. 0.97

01:01:23.000 I think that guy's probably still in jail.

01:01:25.000 I'm surprised they didn't just reschedule the fight.

01:01:27.000 That's not really fair to do that, is it?

01:01:29.000 Well, I think people wanted a conclusion.

01:01:31.000 Yeah.

01:01:31.000 It was all going on right there.

01:01:32.000 And all the money there, yeah.

01:01:34.000 And all the money on pay-per-view as well.

01:01:36.000 Poor fighters, though.

01:01:37.000 Yeah, you know what?

01:01:38.000 They should have just started it up immediately.

01:01:40.000 Shouldn't have waited a half an hour.

01:01:42.000 Should have given it a little five minute break, cut the cords, just let's do this. 0.92

01:01:46.000 But I think it was quite a break while they arrested this dummy. 1.00

01:01:51.000 Needy bitch. 1.00

01:01:52.000 That's an example of a needy bitch. 1.00

01:01:54.000 They should have those fights indoors. 1.00

01:01:56.000 Yeah, I think they probably mostly do.

01:01:59.000 You very rarely hear about fights outdoors.

01:02:01.000 I know they do a few occasionally outside in Vegas.

01:02:03.000 Yeah, there was a big one way back in Africa or something. 0.92

01:02:08.000 I can't remember.

01:02:09.000 They do Muay Thai ones.

01:02:11.000 They do Muay Thai ones in Vegas outside.

01:02:19.000 Well, it doesn't get quite as loud.

01:02:21.000 Yeah, but it's also the environment is different.

01:02:24.000 You're dealing with outside.

01:02:25.000 It can rain.

01:02:26.000 It can get weird.

01:02:27.000 I went to King of the Cage used to have these fights outside.

01:02:31.000 I went to a couple of them.

01:02:32.000 They used to have them in an Indian casino in California back when mixed martial arts was illegal in California.

01:02:39.000 So they would hold them in this outside casino, and one time it started raining.

01:02:43.000 It was pouring rain out, and so they decided to let the fights continue in the pouring rain.

01:02:48.000 So these people are fighting, and they're slipping, and they're trying to throw kicks, and they're falling on their ass, and people are climbing on top, and they're soaking wet.

01:02:56.000 It was like the craziest, and they released it as a DVD. I think it's called King of the Cage Wet and Wild, but it's a really insane series of fights where people are trying to fight in a torrential rainstorm.

01:03:09.000 I think? 0.84

01:03:10.000 People are just so nutty.

01:03:12.000 Did you ever hear of an old, long time ago, wrestler named Gorgeous George?

01:03:15.000 Yes, sure.

01:03:16.000 I saw Gorgeous George wrestle.

01:03:18.000 My dad took me to see him in the Elgin High School gymnasium, and the big deal, he had long hair.

01:03:23.000 Well, it was maybe almost down to his shoulders, but not quite.

01:03:26.000 But at that time, I was huge.

01:03:28.000 And when he'd come out in the ring in the beginning, his hair would be up, and he'd take bobby pins out of his hair and throw them out to the audience.

01:03:36.000 I was so disappointed I didn't catch one.

01:03:38.000 That's so funny.

01:03:40.000 Gorgeous George.

01:03:42.000 It's another thing that people would come, if they came here for another planet, they'd go, what the fuck is going on there? 0.97

01:03:47.000 Those guys are not really hitting each other. 0.95

01:03:49.000 Like, why are you watching that?

01:03:50.000 Because it's fun.

01:03:51.000 We've got to find out who's going to win.

01:03:53.000 Who's the champion of the world?

01:03:54.000 Right.

01:03:54.000 Like, what?

01:03:55.000 This week.

01:03:56.000 Yeah.

01:03:56.000 We're strange.

01:03:57.000 We're strange.

01:03:58.000 Floating around in balloons, pretending to hit each other. 0.88

01:04:01.000 What a nutty race. 0.99

01:04:03.000 Listen, man, this has been a lot of fun.

01:04:05.000 It's been great fun.

01:04:06.000 Very enjoyable.

01:04:06.000 I think four hours is enough.

01:04:08.000 I'm really glad to get to meet you.

01:04:10.000 I don't think you realize what you're doing, but you're filling in a role here for a lot of young people that, you know, you don't know how smart you are.

01:04:19.000 Maybe you do, but you're extremely well-read.

01:04:22.000 You know so much.

01:04:23.000 You're talking to Graham Hancock about stuff.

01:04:25.000 I read the headlines, and you know all these terms about the skull and stuff like that.

01:04:30.000 But what you're doing is you're taking a really high-level intellectual product to the masses and to especially young people that maybe hadn't had the advantage to go to college or something, and they find out, hey, they're as smart as anybody that went to college.

01:04:43.000 And you're really doing a really good service with these podcasts.

01:04:46.000 Well, thank you, but I'm not trying.

01:04:47.000 And I'm extremely uneducated.

01:04:48.000 That's why it's working.

01:04:49.000 That's why it's working.

01:04:51.000 I'm extremely uneducated.

01:04:52.000 No, but you're very well read.

01:04:54.000 Well, I read a lot of things, but, you know, I mean, what is education if not reading, but as far as, like, formal education?

01:04:59.000 And also as far as, like, I don't, you know, I just like what I like.

01:05:04.000 I'm interested in certain things, and I find that there's a lot of things out there that are fascinating that people just aren't paying attention to.

01:05:10.000 And I think what I see and what we talk about on the podcast is really reflected by what I see on Twitter and what I see on the internet, when I go to the various websites that I visit for information.

01:05:21.000 I see just a massive new upsurge in curiosity.

01:05:27.000 I think that people are way more curious than they ever have been before just by virtue of the fact they're getting more information than they've ever gotten before.

01:05:32.000 And they can get it.

01:05:33.000 It's not being held back.

01:05:35.000 So I think what this podcast is, we came along in the right place at the right time, and it was the right type of person in me that kind of can bridge a few different worlds together.

01:05:43.000 Exactly.

01:05:43.000 That's what you're bridging, quite a few different worlds.

01:05:45.000 I connect the meatheads and the potheads. 0.99

01:05:47.000 Exactly.

01:05:48.000 I'm the bridge between the meatheads and the potheads.

01:05:50.000 We're not all that different.

01:05:51.000 We might look different, but there's prejudice against people who engage in martial arts and exercise, just like there's prejudice against people who smoke pot.

01:06:00.000 And some of it's justified, and some of it's not. 1.00

01:06:02.000 Yeah, there's assholes in every group. 1.00

01:06:04.000 Absolutely. 1.00

01:06:05.000 Absolutely.

01:06:06.000 It's so easy to define people because of that.

01:06:09.000 And I think that conversations like this and podcasts, it kind of gives everybody a better sense.

01:06:17.000 We're getting into people's heads because you're right in their ears.

01:06:20.000 They've got the earphones on.

01:06:22.000 They're listening.

01:06:22.000 It's theater of the mind.

01:06:25.000 It's the old voice in the back of the mind that you hear.

01:06:29.000 You know, I've heard so many of your podcasts that, you know, I feel like I've known you all my life.

01:06:33.000 I feel like I've known you a long time too, man.

01:06:35.000 I've listened to you on many a road trip.

01:06:37.000 Give the introductions to all these different, various psychedelic talks.

01:06:40.000 How many episodes do you have?

01:06:42.000 I just, last night did 378. Wow.

01:06:45.000 You are on episode 419. You almost got on 420. You know what?

01:06:50.000 We were going to do a special 420 episode, but now I'm like, that's so stupid. 0.97

01:06:54.000 I'm so tired of that whole 420 thing. 0.85

01:06:57.000 It's just like, come on.

01:06:58.000 It's just a number.

01:07:00.000 The podcast or the podcast.

01:07:01.000 And I'm kind of hypocritical because we always make a big deal of each 100 that we hit. 0.99

01:07:07.000 But 420 just seems stupid. 0.99

01:07:09.000 It seems like a tired thing. 0.99

01:07:10.000 Like, 420, dude!

01:07:12.000 Like, come on, stop.

01:07:14.000 I'm thinking about, for 400, what I've been working on.

01:07:17.000 It's not too far along yet.

01:07:19.000 But I've cut out little soundbites of McKenna.

01:07:22.000 You know, 30- to 60-second soundbites.

01:07:24.000 And I have about 100 of them from 100 different...

01:07:27.000 You know, talks he gave.

01:07:28.000 And I'm going to try to string them together in a cut-up and try to make it a single, cohesive type thing.

01:07:34.000 Hasn't been working too well yet, but it's worth a try.

01:07:37.000 I think that's one of the cool things that you do do that's kind of scary and dangerous and sacrilegious.

01:07:41.000 You edit McKenna's speeches.

01:07:43.000 I get a lot of grief on it. 0.99

01:07:44.000 People fucking freak out. 0.97

01:07:44.000 Why'd you cut out the stuff about the stone tape theory? 0.97

01:07:47.000 Well, because it's the 80th time he said it.

01:07:49.000 Yeah, we've heard it.

01:07:49.000 You know, I'm not a historian.

01:07:51.000 My job is to get the, you know, I'm a carnival barker.

01:07:53.000 And all of the masters, copies are going to Arrowwood of all the masters, and then the real master tapes and all are going to go back to Finn McKenna.

01:08:02.000 Beautiful.

01:08:02.000 That's awesome.

01:08:03.000 And they're out there now.

01:08:04.000 They're out there.

01:08:05.000 You can get a hold of them.

01:08:06.000 Yeah, I've got about another hundred McKenna talks nobody's heard yet.

01:08:09.000 Including me.

01:08:10.000 Another hundred?

01:08:10.000 Yeah.

01:08:11.000 Including me.

01:08:11.000 Oh my God.

01:08:12.000 Wow.

01:08:12.000 So I'm good for another year or so.

01:08:15.000 And plus we're doing the Plank and Norte talks at Burning Man.

01:08:17.000 That gets to be another 30 or 40 every year.

01:08:19.000 Wow.

01:08:20.000 You changed your name because of Burning Man?

01:08:22.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:08:23.000 That's ridiculous. 0.97

01:08:24.000 Well... 0.99

01:08:25.000 That's when you know you get too high when you change your name.

01:08:28.000 My friend Aubrey did that.

01:08:29.000 It used to be Chris.

01:08:30.000 And it became Aubrey after a psychedelic trip.

01:08:31.000 I'd been working up to it.

01:08:32.000 And my sister-in-law who died had called me Lorenzo all the time.

01:08:35.000 So it was a family name.

01:08:37.000 Okay. 0.99

01:08:37.000 And then at Burning Man, this damn parrot climbs up in my arm, and I said, what's that parrot's name? 0.99

01:08:42.000 He says, Lorenzo. 0.98

01:08:43.000 I said, oh, that's my name, too.

01:08:45.000 And that was the day I changed it.

01:08:46.000 Wow, that's hilarious.

01:08:47.000 It was really hard for my wife and family, but they finally got there.

01:08:52.000 Oh, so the Twitter is Psychedelic Lozo, L-O-Z-O. So follow on Twitter, and the podcast is The Psychedelic Salon.

01:09:01.000 It is available for free.

01:09:03.000 It's on iTunes.

01:09:03.000 Yeah.

01:09:04.000 Can people donate if they want to?

01:09:05.000 Yeah, that's how it's kept alive.

01:09:07.000 How do they donate?

01:09:08.000 I've got a donate button on the psychedelicsalon.us has a donate button.

01:09:13.000 .us?

01:09:14.000 .us, yeah.

01:09:15.000 Com, net, org, or us.

01:09:17.000 Okay, beautiful.

01:09:18.000 And it all goes to the same place.

01:09:20.000 And then I'm going to put a Bitcoin thing up there, too.

01:09:22.000 Beautiful.

01:09:23.000 And they can go to LorenzoHaggerty.com and it has links to a little 15-minute video of my life and then the MDMA story in Dallas is there and all the links are LorenzoHaggerty.com.

01:09:34.000 Outstanding.

01:09:35.000 And the book, The Spirit of the Internet, is back when he was Lawrence.

01:09:38.000 So that's Lawrence Haggerty.

01:09:39.000 I'm looking for Lorenzo.

01:09:40.000 It's not out there.

01:09:41.000 The Spirit of the Internet by Lawrence Haggerty.

01:09:43.000 And Genesis Generation is my novel that's just out.

01:09:46.000 Beautiful.

01:09:47.000 All on Kindle.

01:09:48.000 Thank you, sir.

01:09:49.000 It's been a lot of fun.

01:09:50.000 It's been an honor to be here.

01:09:51.000 It's cool.

01:09:51.000 It's an honor for me as well.

01:09:52.000 It's really cool that we can do this.

01:09:53.000 And I think both of our audiences cross a lot, and so I'm glad they both got to hear it.

01:09:57.000 Absolutely.

01:09:57.000 And like I said, I think that's how I heard about you in the first place.

01:10:00.000 I'm pretty sure.

01:10:01.000 I've got a lot of people in my audience say the first time they heard about me was from you.

01:10:05.000 What goes around comes around.

01:10:06.000 Indeed it does.

01:10:07.000 Thank you, sir.

01:10:08.000 Appreciate it.

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 19, 2013

Joe Rogan Experience #419 - Lorenzo Hagerty (Part 2)

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