The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #490 - Andreas Antonopoulos

00:00:02.000 Hey, everybody. 1.00

00:00:05.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:00:06.000 What's up? 1.00

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00:00:55.000 And they're listening to this podcast. 1.00

00:00:57.000 And they're like, you dick! 1.00

00:00:58.000 You've sabotaged my plan! 1.00

00:01:00.000 I don't mean to sabotage your plan, dude.

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00:01:32.000 I don't know why they have to be for men.

00:01:34.000 Like if a chick comes over your house and uses Butt Wipe Charlie's, is it one of those weird things like when a chick uses your deodorant? 1.00

00:01:40.000 I think they need more, like a bigger wipe, so that's why they're...

00:01:43.000 Dudes have bigger buttholes? 1.00

00:01:44.000 Yeah.

00:01:45.000 What if you're dating a really large woman? 0.90

00:01:45.000 I guess. 0.90

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00:03:16.000 While shaving.

00:03:17.000 Yes, while shaving.

00:03:18.000 Good point, Mr. Antonopoulos.

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00:04:24.000 Say that they would recommend it.

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00:05:38.000 My name is Joe Rogan.

00:05:39.000 Someone else could?

00:05:40.000 I guess you could.

00:05:41.000 There's more than one of us.

00:05:43.000 There's a guy, I guess he's in Idaho now, has the JoeRogan.com.

00:05:49.000 I actually like that he has it now.

00:05:52.000 He was so douchey about it when I wanted to buy it.

00:05:55.000 I'm glad I never did.

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00:05:59.000 I shouldn't say douchey.

00:06:00.000 He recognized the value of it and he was playing hardball with me.

00:06:04.000 Okay, that's a better way of putting it.

00:06:05.000 He was smart about it.

00:06:06.000 On his side, he would say, I'm douchey. 1.00

00:06:07.000 From all the fucking emails that he probably gets from people. 1.00

00:06:11.000 Buttholes and stuff. 1.00

00:06:12.000 Yeah, all sorts of black dicks. 1.00

00:06:14.000 He's probably got more black dicks than any other Joe Rogan but me. 1.00

00:06:19.000 Other than me. 1.00

00:06:21.000 I'm a close second. 1.00

00:06:22.000 Do you get a lot of black dicks? 1.00

00:06:23.000 Every now and then. 1.00

00:06:24.000 Every now and then.

00:06:25.000 In the early days of the podcast, we would bring up Blackhawks every 30...

00:06:28.000 It was a confusion.

00:06:30.000 There was something that was wrong.

00:06:31.000 We didn't know what we were talking about.

00:06:32.000 Blackhawks are just... 0.95

00:06:34.000 We'll start talking about that.

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00:13:28.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:13:39.000 How are you, sir?

00:13:40.000 I'm doing great.

00:13:41.000 Great to have you back again, man.

00:13:43.000 It was fun having you on before and a lot of feedback.

00:13:46.000 A lot of people learned a lot about cryptocurrencies and the benefits of them, what's going on, where the push is, where the negative things are, and put a little balance to a lot of the negative press that you hear about.

00:13:57.000 Bitcoin and all these different various cryptocurrencies in the media because that's literally all I hear.

00:14:04.000 I mean, I know people are trading things back and forth, but you really put it into perspective for us, especially when you were talking about that, what was it, $150 million transaction?

00:14:13.000 Is that the one that was done through Bitcoin?

00:14:16.000 Yeah.

00:14:38.000 Yeah, it is.

00:14:39.000 But I think it's important not to look at it as an investment.

00:14:44.000 It's so much more interesting as a means of exchange than as a store of value.

00:14:50.000 It can do amazing things in terms of velocity, just getting money from one place to another.

00:14:55.000 And it's not about the big movements.

00:14:57.000 What's even more fascinating is the small movements.

00:14:59.000 So, for example, I take tips on Twitter.

00:15:02.000 And without knowing these people, they can send me a quarter, like 25 cents or 10 cents over Twitter instantly.

00:15:11.000 And you can't even do that with any other payment system because it costs so much to move money.

00:15:15.000 And it enables all of these little tiny, tiny transactions.

00:15:19.000 And they add up, you know?

00:15:21.000 And it's fun to be able to connect with people in that way.

00:15:24.000 And it's direct, unlike, say, like a PayPal situation where you have to give them a piece of the action.

00:15:29.000 Yeah.

00:15:30.000 Yeah, not just that.

00:15:31.000 I mean, it requires no prior arrangements of any kind.

00:15:34.000 They don't need to create an account.

00:15:35.000 I don't need to create an account.

00:15:37.000 I can just put up my Bitcoin address and start receiving things.

00:15:39.000 Now, if you pay taxes on Bitcoin, does it, I mean, how do you sort it out over the course of a year?

00:15:45.000 Because the dollar value of it goes up and down.

00:15:50.000 Yeah.

00:15:50.000 So how do you figure out, like, when you make taxes, do you do it at the current rate, the day you file it?

00:15:56.000 I mean, how do you do that?

00:15:58.000 Well, first of all, we're still trying to figure that out.

00:16:01.000 It's been about a month since the IRS released some information on how they want to tax it.

00:16:07.000 And they're taxing it like a commodity, which means capital gains.

00:16:10.000 So you have to account for the price when you bought it and then the price when you sold it.

00:16:15.000 And then look at the difference.

00:16:16.000 And if you gained, you pay capital gains tax on that.

00:16:19.000 And if you lost, you can account for capital losses. 0.96

00:16:22.000 That seems like if people were smart, they would buy up a shitload of Bitcoin and then sell like right before and fucking crash the market and then pay their taxes and then buy! 0.99

00:16:32.000 And then you'd fucking just keep winning. 0.84

00:16:34.000 Yeah, the market's big enough that you can't really play those kinds of games. 0.94

00:16:38.000 Dude, always thinking.

00:16:39.000 It's going to get complicated.

00:16:42.000 Is that a possibility?

00:16:43.000 Could you do that?

00:16:44.000 And did I just violate the law?

00:16:46.000 Is that insider trading?

00:16:48.000 I got confused.

00:16:48.000 Nah.

00:16:49.000 The market's pretty huge right now.

00:16:53.000 So on a daily basis, tens of thousands of Bitcoin move around.

00:16:57.000 So unless you were able to bring...

00:17:00.000 A very big amount to bear.

00:17:02.000 You can't really do that.

00:17:03.000 You can't move these markets artificially.

00:17:05.000 You'd have to be like some Bill Gates type character to do that.

00:17:09.000 And it would be difficult.

00:17:12.000 There are far more liquid markets to do that.

00:17:13.000 You know, if you want to play games like that, go play them on S&P 500 with front-running high-frequency trading.

00:17:19.000 That's what's going on.

00:17:20.000 That's where the big games are being played.

00:17:21.000 This is small stuff.

00:17:22.000 They have to make the stock market illegal.

00:17:24.000 They really do. 1.00

00:17:25.000 The shit's... 1.00

00:17:26.000 You've got a good point too about saying that it's important to not look at it as an investment. 1.00

00:17:31.000 Because there's something kind of gross about those kind of investments. 0.96

00:17:35.000 Like when you find out someone got in on a stock early, like some tech company, and they made like 300 million bucks for no fucking reason. 0.96

00:17:42.000 And then you're like, wait a minute. 0.78

00:17:44.000 What did you do?

00:17:46.000 Where's that money coming from?

00:17:47.000 I don't get it.

00:17:48.000 It's way too volatile because it's a growing technology.

00:17:53.000 It's a brand new technology.

00:17:54.000 It's still being tested.

00:17:55.000 It's way too volatile.

00:17:56.000 For the average investor, that means it's way too risky.

00:17:59.000 Now, there are some investors, sophisticated investors, who have a broad portfolio and who may want to take a small part of that portfolio and put it into a very high volatility investment in order to churn some returns out.

00:18:13.000 But they would do that knowing exactly how much risk they're taking, which is a lot, and balancing out that risk over a bigger portfolio.

00:18:22.000 But your average person?

00:18:24.000 No, this is definitely not the kind of thing you want to be playing with.

00:18:27.000 Use it to do transactions.

00:18:30.000 Hold it for long term.

00:18:32.000 Playing with this market will only get you burned.

00:18:35.000 There's this real temptation to try to day trade this market.

00:18:40.000 And a lot of people fall for that temptation.

00:18:43.000 I played with it when I first started with Bitcoin.

00:18:47.000 Learned that lesson pretty fast.

00:18:48.000 So if you were day trading...

00:18:51.000 Exactly how would you work that out?

00:18:54.000 You'd buy up a bunch of Bitcoin, and then when the price hit a significant margin, like if it got to a high enough level, you're like, you know what?

00:19:02.000 I think we just hit the lid. 1.00

00:19:03.000 Sell that shit! 1.00

00:19:04.000 And then you sell it. 1.00

00:19:05.000 Yeah, buy low, sell high.

00:19:07.000 It's a simple rule, but the problem is you never know where high is, and you never know where low is, and most people essentially end up falling for The basic psychology of panic and greed.

00:19:17.000 And so they end up actually buying high because of greed and selling low because of panic.

00:19:22.000 And then they end up flipping that equation and losing a lot of money.

00:19:26.000 I mean, it's really not worth it.

00:19:26.000 Don't do it.

00:19:28.000 This is a very interesting technology.

00:19:30.000 Treating it like penny stock and trying to greedily make money off it will only get you burned.

00:19:36.000 Well, spoken as a true believer.

00:19:37.000 I agree with you on that, and I think that's cool that you stressed that.

00:19:41.000 I keep hearing about this Mt.

00:19:43.000 Gox monkey in the news, man. 1.00

00:19:44.000 This guy is constantly in the news.

00:19:46.000 What are they going to do with that dude?

00:19:48.000 And for folks who don't know, explain, if they haven't heard the earlier podcast, explain what this Mt.

00:19:54.000 Gox situation is.

00:19:56.000 So, first of all, there's no mountain.

00:19:59.000 Here's the interesting story.

00:20:00.000 This started out as a trading site for cards, for playing cards, called Magic the Gathering Online Exchange. 0.99

00:20:07.000 Which everybody knows, and no offense to Magic the Gathering fans, you guys are fucking dorks. 0.99

00:20:12.000 Okay? 0.99

00:20:12.000 There's no offense. 0.99

00:20:13.000 No offense. 0.98

00:20:14.000 I'm a dork, too. 0.95

00:20:15.000 There's a lot of dorkiness to a lot of things that I enjoy. 1.00

00:20:18.000 But you guys are fucking serious dorks. 0.99

00:20:18.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:20:20.000 And that was the basis for the original Mt.

00:20:25.000 Gox site.

00:20:26.000 The domain, at least.

00:20:27.000 Yes.

00:20:27.000 And then it became this exchange, one of the biggest exchanges in the world for Bitcoin, but not secure, not coded properly, just a wreck.

00:20:37.000 Wow.

00:20:38.000 Well, the thing is, Empty Gox, as I like to call it, which kind of rhymes with Empty Gox because it really is just an acronym.

00:20:46.000 It's not a mountain.

00:20:48.000 It started off as a trading site and it offered something really important and valuable.

00:20:55.000 In the early days of Bitcoin, when you were trading locally among individuals, there was no price discovery mechanism.

00:21:00.000 There was no way to figure out how much a Bitcoin was worth because there was no liquid market.

00:21:04.000 So, you know, if I bought some Bitcoin from you, we had to figure out what price we were both comfortable with.

00:21:10.000 And maybe we'd ask somebody else, well, how much did you buy it for?

00:21:13.000 And that's how you discover the price, right?

00:21:15.000 Because if there isn't a really big liquid market, you don't know what the price is.

00:21:19.000 Was it more stable then?

00:21:21.000 No, it was even more volatile because, keep in mind, at the time, Bitcoin was trading for thousands of a penny or pennies.

00:21:30.000 So you could basically buy a thousand Bitcoin for a dollar in the early days.

00:21:35.000 Wow.

00:21:35.000 And that would be worth, what, like a hundred grand now or something close to it?

00:21:39.000 That would be worth half a million dollars now.

00:21:41.000 Half a million?

00:21:43.000 Wow, I'm so behind the price.

00:21:45.000 What is the price of a Bitcoin now?

00:21:47.000 Oh, it's 500 bucks now?

00:21:49.000 Wow, that was way off.

00:21:49.000 Yeah.

00:21:50.000 I think it was 300 or something.

00:21:52.000 Yeah, I wasn't sure.

00:21:53.000 It's been up, it's been down.

00:21:54.000 What's the lowest it's been like in recent times?

00:21:58.000 So, last year, this time, it jumped from about 100 to 266, and then dropped again down to 50. So, at some point last year, it was 50. And then, in the meantime...

00:22:10.000 Now it's 500. Then it went all the way up to about 1,000, maybe 1,100 on some markets.

00:22:16.000 Really?

00:22:16.000 And then it dumped all the way down to 800, stayed there for a bit, and then it dumped all the way down to 500, and then it...

00:22:22.000 I had a brief period flirting with 370, and then it went back up.

00:22:26.000 So here's what's happening.

00:22:29.000 Every few weeks, China started back in November of last year.

00:22:38.000 The China market opened up, and everyone was like...

00:22:40.000 Yeah, China's in Bitcoin to the moon!

00:22:43.000 The price shut up.

00:22:44.000 Oh, interesting.

00:22:46.000 And then China said, we're thinking of banning it and the price crashes.

00:22:49.000 But maybe we won't ban it and the price rises.

00:22:52.000 But maybe we'll ban it and the price crashes.

00:22:54.000 And we've been playing this...

00:22:57.000 Is it not banned?

00:22:57.000 Is it banned?

00:22:58.000 Is it banned?

00:22:59.000 Is it not banned for the last five months?

00:23:02.000 And it's been a rollercoaster.

00:23:04.000 And in the end, it really doesn't matter.

00:23:06.000 So for folks who don't know what we're talking about, this Mt.

00:23:10.000 Gox thing was this online exchange that it turned out Someone somehow, whether it was an inside job or not, someone somehow was stealing money to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin.

00:23:23.000 Took all of the money in the exchange.

00:23:24.000 100% of it?

00:23:25.000 Well, like 85-90% of it.

00:23:28.000 Oh my god.

00:23:29.000 So someone somewhere stole an insane amount of money.

00:23:34.000 You're not hearing about some wild manhunt to get to that money if it was like...

00:23:39.000 There was a guy named Lee Murray, alright?

00:23:41.000 And Lee Murray was a mixed martial arts fighter from the UK who was a real crazy man.

00:23:46.000 He was like as wild as they come.

00:23:48.000 He was like a real live version of a character from a Guy Ritchie movie. 0.98

00:23:52.000 Guy was nuts.

00:23:53.000 He fought in the UFC. He was a really good fighter too. 0.96

00:23:56.000 Fought Anderson Silva and Cage Rage.

00:23:58.000 I mean, high level guy.

00:24:00.000 Um... 1.00

00:24:01.000 And he was also a fucking thug, like a super legit criminal. 1.00

00:24:06.000 And he was a part of a huge multi-million dollar bank heist where they came in with fucking ski masks and bulletproof vests and high-powered rifles and machine guns. 1.00

00:24:20.000 The full deal, like full black ops, like a movie. 0.98

00:24:24.000 And they have the security cameras of these guys.

00:24:26.000 And then somehow or another, they all got nabbed.

00:24:30.000 And this guy, Lee Murray, was one of the ones they chased after the hardest.

00:24:35.000 He went to Morocco, and he was hiding there, and he got arrested there for kidnapping someone and beating them up after he did the bank job. 0.99

00:24:43.000 This guy's a fucking maniac, right? 1.00

00:24:45.000 But the point is, there was a fucking manhunt! 1.00

00:24:49.000 It was all over the newspapers in the UK. It was everywhere. 1.00

00:24:52.000 They were going after these motherfuckers. 1.00

00:24:55.000 And it seems to me like the amount of money that was stolen in Mt. 1.00

00:24:59.000 Gox is commensurate to this.

00:25:01.000 It's bigger.

00:25:03.000 Bigger.

00:25:03.000 But here's the thing.

00:25:04.000 Is it really bigger?

00:25:05.000 Yeah, I think.

00:25:06.000 How much was the UK bank?

00:25:08.000 Let me find out.

00:25:09.000 Nobody knows exactly how much is gone at Gox, but it's somewhere between $600 million and $800 million.

00:25:14.000 Oh my god, it is bigger.

00:25:15.000 But here's the thing.

00:25:16.000 Bernie Madoff stole $20 billion.

00:25:20.000 $20 billion with a B. And there wasn't a manhunt there because the real truth is that if you want to rob a bank, what you do is you go get a banking license.

00:25:34.000 Then you rob the bank using a keyboard instead of a machine gun.

00:25:38.000 Yeah, using the loopholes.

00:25:40.000 No one starts a manhunt that way.

00:25:42.000 That's the modern way of doing bank heists.

00:25:46.000 And that's the way that doesn't get you shot and nets you the biggest return. 1.00

00:25:50.000 Well, when you're a crazy criminal, though, and you don't know how to work a keyboard that well, you've got to be L33T to pull that shit off. 0.99

00:25:59.000 So, this Mt. 0.99

00:26:01.000 Gox thing, someone, somewhere, has stolen...

00:26:04.000 Let's put a number on it.

00:26:06.000 You say $800 million?

00:26:07.000 Nobody knows.

00:26:07.000 I don't know.

00:26:08.000 It's several hundred million dollars.

00:26:10.000 It's somewhere between five and eight, I think.

00:26:12.000 Let's just say it's $100 million.

00:26:14.000 Let's be super conservative and say it's $100 million worth of cash.

00:26:18.000 At the current Bitcoin price. 0.97

00:26:21.000 If someone stole a hundred fucking million dollars worth of money, like if a hundred million dollars worth of diamonds went missing, what a manhunt. 0.99

00:26:29.000 It would be for that person. 0.99

00:26:30.000 But sums like that are stolen and go missing in the banking system and in government affairs all the time and there's no manhunt.

00:26:39.000 I mean, this is fairly typical of what happens.

00:26:42.000 These are white-collar crimes.

00:26:43.000 It's about records and forensic accounting and analysis and drawn-out cases where they try to figure out what happened.

00:26:49.000 The bottom line is, every year about a hundred or more banks fail spectacularly and the money disappears.

00:26:58.000 And this was just another bank failure.

00:27:00.000 It really had very little to do with Bitcoin.

00:27:03.000 It was a bank failure of the very traditional kind.

00:27:06.000 This was not a system that used Bitcoin to protect its security.

00:27:12.000 It was a system that collected all of the Bitcoin in one big account and then lost that.

00:27:18.000 So it's essentially the account was robbed and the account just happened to be Holding Bitcoin.

00:27:25.000 Yeah, and actually the dollars are gone too.

00:27:27.000 There was dollars involved as well?

00:27:29.000 The currency accounts in the banks were also...

00:27:32.000 How much was that?

00:27:34.000 There's some dollars missing.

00:27:35.000 It was a lot less.

00:27:35.000 I don't know.

00:27:38.000 I stole my money too, man!

00:27:39.000 It was a few million.

00:27:41.000 It was a few million.

00:27:42.000 Or maybe tens of millions.

00:27:43.000 But it wasn't like hundreds.

00:27:45.000 So...

00:27:46.000 Yeah, here's the thing.

00:27:49.000 You have a Bitcoin wallet, right?

00:27:51.000 That means you control the keys.

00:27:53.000 And that's the essence of Bitcoin is that individuals control them.

00:27:56.000 They don't have a bank.

00:27:57.000 They don't have their money in a bank where someone else has custody of it.

00:28:01.000 And then they just have a little IOU note that says you have this much in the bank and maybe we'll give it to you when you come to withdraw.

00:28:07.000 That was my next question.

00:28:08.000 Mt.

00:28:09.000 Gox did not have individual Bitcoin accounts for the users.

00:28:12.000 They took the Bitcoin and then put it all into one of their own accounts and managed it.

00:28:19.000 So they took it out of the security of each person having their own keys and instead collected all the money in one big wallet.

00:28:27.000 That's crazy!

00:28:28.000 Why would they do that?

00:28:29.000 What's the benefit of that?

00:28:31.000 Well, there's this instinct to implement the same types of centralized banking institutions.

00:28:38.000 And here's the thing.

00:28:39.000 When you have that much money under the control of an individual or an organization, society then builds all of these regulatory institutions because they figured out that when you do that, Those institutions, those organizations,

00:28:55.000 those individuals steal the money again and again.

00:28:57.000 When you put one person in charge of the money, they steal the money.

00:29:01.000 That's what power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and there is no more powerful corrupting influence than money.

00:29:08.000 So when you have people who have millions in their control, Bad things happen. 0.89

00:29:12.000 Someone just fucks off with it.

00:29:14.000 They just figure out a way to do it. 0.99

00:29:15.000 Right.

00:29:16.000 Or they're sloppy with their security and somebody else robs them.

00:29:19.000 But in either case, all of the banking regulations we have are to stop the fact that individuals control too much money from stealing that money.

00:29:28.000 Bitcoin is a different solution.

00:29:29.000 The idea is instead of collecting all the money in one big bucket, you have each user controlling their own money.

00:29:36.000 You don't put it in a bank.

00:29:37.000 You don't concentrate the risk.

00:29:39.000 And that way...

00:29:41.000 You don't need all of these elaborate controls because you don't take the control of the money away from the individual.

00:29:46.000 You leave it in the hands of the individuals.

00:29:48.000 Well, Mt.

00:29:49.000 Gox took it away from the control of the individuals, but then didn't have any of the regulatory institutions that we traditionally have in banking.

00:29:55.000 So they weren't using the Bitcoin security and they weren't using the traditional banking regulations and audits to protect them.

00:30:02.000 They were in this gray area in between where they had all of the control over the money and none of the protections. 0.99

00:30:08.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:30:09.000 That's ridiculous. 1.00

00:30:11.000 That is a very fascinating point. 0.99

00:30:13.000 Gross incompetence as well.

00:30:14.000 I mean, like really, really bad management, really bad coding, really bad technology used.

00:30:22.000 Just gross incompetence of an unbelievable scale.

00:30:26.000 I mean, you'd think with all of that money they'd hire some competent people, but the incompetence started at the top. 1.00

00:30:31.000 Well, you look at the guy at the top and his dumb fat face. 1.00

00:30:34.000 Look at that fucking dummy. 1.00

00:30:36.000 Look at that. 1.00

00:30:37.000 That guy's never been good at anything.

00:30:38.000 I'll tell you what right now. 1.00

00:30:40.000 A guy with a dumb fat face like that. 1.00

00:30:42.000 And if you have a dumb fat face and you're smart, I apologize. 1.00

00:30:45.000 I apologize right now. 1.00

00:30:47.000 I have a dumb face too. 0.98

00:30:48.000 He plays Magic the Gathering. 1.00

00:30:49.000 Yeah.

00:30:50.000 He doesn't just play it. 1.00

00:30:51.000 He owns a fucking online exchange. 0.99

00:30:53.000 Well, he actually bought it from someone else. 0.99

00:30:54.000 How much did he pay for it?

00:30:55.000 I don't know.

00:30:56.000 I mean, there was some kind of...

00:30:57.000 This goes way back in the early days.

00:30:59.000 But here's the thing.

00:31:01.000 Mark Karpelis, the guy you just showed in that photo.

00:31:05.000 Let's call him Big Fat Face.

00:31:06.000 Can we do that?

00:31:07.000 Sure.

00:31:08.000 So I don't know him personally.

00:31:10.000 I never met him.

00:31:11.000 But he provided a really critical service at a time when Bitcoin desperately needed it.

00:31:16.000 He provided a market where people could buy and sell Bitcoin in a transparent way.

00:31:21.000 And for the first time you had Bitcoin pricing.

00:31:24.000 You could figure out how much a Bitcoin was worth because there were lots of people trading it and therefore the price that they settled on over thousands of trades was price discovery.

00:31:34.000 You need that in a market to function.

00:31:36.000 So now you had a price and for many years the empty ox price was the price of Bitcoin.

00:31:42.000 Alright, so let's stop calling him big fat face. 1.00

00:31:45.000 Let's call him poor bastard. 1.00

00:31:46.000 Okay. 1.00

00:31:48.000 So poor bastard starts out good. 0.99

00:31:50.000 Starts out good. 1.00

00:31:51.000 Everything's going great.

00:31:52.000 He helps out a lot of people by letting them establish a price.

00:31:57.000 Yeah, which made a huge difference for Bitcoin.

00:31:59.000 I mean, there was the first time you had a liquid market where people could actually trade not just face-to-face, but could exchange various currencies for Bitcoin.

00:32:06.000 And that was incredibly important without MTGox.

00:32:10.000 So he's essentially just a symptom of a growing market that he just wasn't prepared for.

00:32:17.000 Here's a perfect example.

00:32:18.000 If I was running something, okay? 0.82

00:32:22.000 I'm a dummy. 0.96

00:32:23.000 When it comes to computers, I'm a real dummy.

00:32:26.000 So if I was running some sort of online exchange and somehow or another started trading Bitcoin, and then I started seeing hundreds of millions of dollars, I would have to bring people in.

00:32:36.000 I would have to bring in, like, financial experts and coding experts.

00:32:40.000 Security experts, maybe? 0.99

00:32:41.000 And I'm busy as fuck, man. 0.99

00:32:42.000 I wouldn't probably do it right. 0.99

00:32:44.000 I would probably fuck it up, just the way... 1.00

00:32:46.000 Poor bastard fucked it up. 1.00

00:32:48.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:32:49.000 So, can't really blame him.

00:32:50.000 Except he's got his finger out.

00:32:51.000 Well, here's the thing. 1.00

00:32:53.000 Fuck you back, buddy. 1.00

00:32:54.000 There's a chance, you know, we don't know if this was just gross mismanagement or also fraud. 1.00

00:33:01.000 I'm not gonna go as far as say poor bastard because there's a good chance that he... 0.97

00:33:08.000 He hurt a lot of people very badly, and there's a chance that he was culpable. 1.00

00:33:12.000 Big fat face, you motherfucker! 1.00

00:33:15.000 But at the same time, it's a classic story of someone who was in a situation that was way over their head, and then they tried to handle it without asking for help, and then it snowballed, and they tried to cover up some mistakes by making bigger mistakes, 1.00

00:33:34.000 and then bigger mistakes, and then bigger mistakes.

00:33:37.000 How did he try to cover it up?

00:33:38.000 Well, once...

00:33:39.000 So...

00:33:41.000 Some money was taken in an earlier incident from the system.

00:33:46.000 And then I think he tried to cover up the lack of money by essentially generating more fees from the customers and paying for the previous loss by bringing in new customers and trying to stay ahead of the loss.

00:34:01.000 Which, by the way, we've seen this again and again.

00:34:04.000 That's a Bernie Madoff move.

00:34:05.000 Essentially he was running a mini-pyramids game.

00:34:07.000 Right.

00:34:08.000 And pyramid schemes are very rarely intentional.

00:34:12.000 Nobody starts out to say, I'm going to run a pyramid scheme.

00:34:14.000 What happens is they take a bet, they lose on that bet, and then they try to cover up the fact that they lost by bringing in more people.

00:34:20.000 And they're like, as long as I stay ahead of this, it's not going to bite me.

00:34:23.000 And then it gets bigger and bigger.

00:34:24.000 We saw that with that trader in, I think it was one of the Swiss banks, who was essentially trading...

00:34:34.000 Bigger and bigger bets in order to cover up previous mistakes and getting further out until eventually it all collapsed.

00:34:40.000 We've seen this happen again and again.

00:34:43.000 It's really trying to cover up an early mistake by making a bigger mistake and then it snowballs.

00:34:48.000 Well I have seen legit pyramid schemes.

00:34:51.000 I had a guy who was a coach at a boxing gym try to talk me into a pyramid scheme. 0.99

00:34:56.000 I mean, he was describing it in the dumbest way ever. 0.98

00:34:58.000 He was describing a pyramid scheme. 0.94

00:35:00.000 He's like, a bunch of people put the money in, and then, hey, I got money out, that's how I got these rims on my truck.

00:35:06.000 And I was like, what are you doing?

00:35:08.000 He's like, you invest, you put money in, and then new people come in, and then you know you can take money out, and then new people come in.

00:35:14.000 I go, it's a pyramid scheme.

00:35:15.000 Do you know what you're saying?

00:35:16.000 He didn't know what a pyramid scheme was.

00:35:18.000 Well, I learned that lesson in 7th grade.

00:35:23.000 Yeah, it's a very...

00:35:24.000 Where my school buddies were running a little candy pyramid scheme.

00:35:29.000 A candy pyramid scheme?

00:35:30.000 Yeah, it's basically...

00:35:31.000 It was candy.

00:35:32.000 It was...

00:35:32.000 What do you call it?

00:35:33.000 Like the...

00:35:35.000 We had one of those cantinas where you could buy donuts and things like that.

00:35:40.000 So it was kind of like a donut pyramid scheme based on the school cantina.

00:35:44.000 But they actually drew it on the blackboard as an airplane where you sit at the front and then two people sit behind you and then four people sit behind you.

00:35:55.000 Wow.

00:35:56.000 And then it was kind of like, it was called an airplane.

00:35:58.000 And it was basically a pyramid scheme that some kid had heard from somewhere and introduced into the class.

00:36:03.000 And then our teacher sat us down and said, this is what a pyramid scheme is, and this is why you're not allowed to do this in the school.

00:36:10.000 Doesn't it seem like you'd want to find out where that guy is now? 0.99

00:36:14.000 I mean, if he was doing that with candy back then, what a fucking creep. 0.99

00:36:18.000 President of Avon. 0.99

00:36:20.000 I would like to send him a thank you card.

00:36:22.000 He's the head of verbal life.

00:36:23.000 Because financial education, I mean, what a valuable lesson to learn early and then not fall for it again.

00:36:29.000 That is so true.

00:36:30.000 Yeah, especially because you got to see it in an actual form, not like some sort of abstract lesson that someone's teaching.

00:36:36.000 You got to see it actually play out.

00:36:38.000 You're like, oh, I get it.

00:36:39.000 800 people in the school, it fizzles out pretty quickly. 0.96

00:36:42.000 You run out of suckers really, really fast, right?

00:36:46.000 So it only lasted, I think, about two weeks before the whole thing came crashing down.

00:36:51.000 But it was a fantastic demonstration in real life in a closed, controlled environment.

00:36:55.000 And the only losses were really to the collapse of the local donut economy.

00:37:00.000 That's funny.

00:37:01.000 The guy who came up to me, I explained to him that it was a pyramid scheme and he still tried to sell me on it.

00:37:07.000 He's like, yeah, no, I'm telling you, you should do it.

00:37:09.000 I'm like, what are you saying?

00:37:09.000 You should put your money.

00:37:11.000 I just explained to you what this is.

00:37:13.000 It's a pyramid scheme.

00:37:14.000 You know what a pyramid scheme is?

00:37:15.000 Like, people get ripped off.

00:37:16.000 Hey, you're not going to get ripped off.

00:37:17.000 Okay, I gotta go.

00:37:19.000 Yeah.

00:37:20.000 But this was a pyramid scheme almost like just to cover up incompetence.

00:37:25.000 And then it sort of snowballed like a lie that you couldn't help.

00:37:28.000 And then that lie, you may have got a bunch of other lies to cover that lie.

00:37:34.000 Well, keep in mind, I'm speculating.

00:37:36.000 This is based on the information we have right now.

00:37:38.000 We've seen that there were a couple of failures early on.

00:37:41.000 And then it seems like he was trying to cover up for those.

00:37:44.000 We don't know yet.

00:37:45.000 We don't know whether or not he was a part of it as well, right?

00:37:48.000 We don't know how much was stolen by outside people.

00:37:51.000 He certainly did try to cover losses, but we don't know if those losses occurred because he lost keys to Bitcoin and essentially lost the money or if it was stolen or if it was embezzled or if it was whatever.

00:38:07.000 We don't know.

00:38:07.000 And there's now parallel prosecutions happening both in Japan and in the United States to find the answers to that.

00:38:16.000 Here's the interesting thing.

00:38:18.000 We're going to find out the answers to that because Bitcoin uses a public ledger and there's forensic evidence sprinkled in the Bitcoin transaction ledger that allows us to track exactly what happened.

00:38:30.000 This is the most transparent financial system, so we're going to get some really interesting answers.

00:38:34.000 So we'll be able to find out who has it?

00:38:37.000 We, not really, but we're going to be able to find out what happened and when it happened.

00:38:42.000 What happened and when it happened, but you can't find out where it went and you can't track it.

00:38:46.000 IP address, right?

00:38:47.000 You can't track IP addresses through Bitcoin.

00:38:49.000 You can or can't?

00:38:51.000 You cannot.

00:38:51.000 Can't.

00:38:52.000 No, you cannot.

00:38:52.000 Cannot.

00:38:53.000 So there's no way to figure out where that stuff went, where the bitcoins went.

00:38:57.000 Not really.

00:38:58.000 Not really.

00:38:58.000 But you can see when it went out of accounts that were known to be controlled by Gox, and so you can rebuild a timeline.

00:39:06.000 Here's the other thing that's not going to happen.

00:39:08.000 Gox didn't get bailed out.

00:39:08.000 Mt.

00:39:11.000 Mt.

00:39:12.000 Gox didn't get 0% interest loans from a central bank in order to pretend they're solvent when they're not.

00:39:18.000 Mt.

00:39:19.000 Gox didn't make deals with other banks to cover up their losses by collateralizing them in CDOs.

00:39:25.000 Gox didn't get to acquire some of the failing banks, add them to their asset sheet, and then pretend that they were not failing.

00:39:25.000 Mt.

00:39:32.000 Mt.

00:39:32.000 Gox didn't get to bail in all of the customers of Bitcoin across the entire economy.

00:39:38.000 Mt.

00:39:38.000 Gox didn't get to hyperinflate the currency in order to save themselves but destroy the economy.

00:39:44.000 No.

00:39:44.000 All of those things happened after 2008. Hold on a second.

00:39:47.000 What you're saying sounds exactly like what went on with our economy.

00:39:53.000 Yeah.

00:39:54.000 Hold on.

00:39:55.000 Wait a minute.

00:39:57.000 Wait a minute.

00:39:59.000 Is this guy in trouble?

00:40:01.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:40:02.000 Where is he?

00:40:04.000 Exactly.

00:40:05.000 He might be one of the few examples of bankers going to jail.

00:40:09.000 Yes, which doesn't happen very often.

00:40:09.000 Really?

00:40:11.000 It really happens in two cases.

00:40:13.000 It happens with two small fish who can't get out of the hook of justice, him.

00:40:19.000 The hook of justice, I love it.

00:40:21.000 Or...

00:40:22.000 It happens for those who steal money from very, very rich people.

00:40:26.000 Can't do that.

00:40:27.000 Bernie Madoff didn't steal millions of mortgages from people.

00:40:31.000 No, he stole money from very, very rich people.

00:40:33.000 You can't get away with that.

00:40:35.000 I see.

00:40:36.000 Do you think that...

00:40:38.000 Is this guy in hiding?

00:40:40.000 Like, is he...

00:40:41.000 No, he's in Japan right now.

00:40:42.000 There's an extradition request.

00:40:44.000 They know where he is?

00:40:45.000 I believe so, yeah.

00:40:46.000 How has no one killed him?

00:40:48.000 I mean, you would think that this guy with hundreds of millions of dollars, like, every step that guy takes, he must be looking over his shoulder.

00:40:54.000 Does he still look like that?

00:40:55.000 I'd shave my head and grow a big tape beard.

00:40:57.000 Yeah.

00:40:58.000 Well, first of all, Japan has very, very few, very low incidences of violent crime.

00:41:07.000 There's not too many weapons around.

00:41:10.000 The culture is not like that.

00:41:12.000 And then the other culture, which is, well, geeks like me, I mean, you know, trying to attack someone and cause them harm, I'd have to reach for an asthma inhaler four times in the In the process of committing a crime.

00:41:27.000 But it seems like a guy like you could figure out a way to code an app for your phone that controls a drone that shoots missiles. 1.00

00:41:35.000 I mean, I would think people like you would be the worst people to fuck with. 1.00

00:41:39.000 Not motivated enough. 1.00

00:41:41.000 I don't know.

00:41:41.000 But you're not motivated enough, but you didn't lose hundreds of millions of dollars to this cat.

00:41:45.000 Like, what if you had $100 million in that $800 plus whatever it was that disappeared? 0.97

00:41:50.000 If $100 million, you know, whatever, plus or minus, was all yours, you would be fucking bloody furious.

00:41:58.000 And there are a lot of people who are very upset and very hurt by this situation, and a lot of people who lost a lot of money, including it had a ripple effect. 0.75

00:42:05.000 You've got to realize that many Bitcoin businesses had money in accounts there.

00:42:11.000 So that loss then affected the cash flow of other Bitcoin businesses that suffered and charities, many charities that lost money in MTGOX. Oh, wow.

00:42:22.000 So a business like, say, one that I keep hearing about is Tiger Direct.

00:42:26.000 Tiger Direct is a pretty huge computer company.

00:42:29.000 Overstock.

00:42:30.000 Both of those use Bitcoin, yeah.

00:42:30.000 Overstock.

00:42:33.000 That's interesting.

00:42:34.000 Overstock.

00:42:35.000 I keep hearing good things about Overstock.

00:42:36.000 Yeah, they generally don't have much exposure because they don't...

00:42:39.000 Here's the thing.

00:42:40.000 People who are using it as an exchange, so when you have excess Bitcoin, move it in there, sell it for dollars, move the dollars out.

00:42:47.000 It's just in and out, right?

00:42:50.000 Versus storing the Bitcoin there as a wallet.

00:42:53.000 And giving them full control of that and just leaving piles of Bitcoin there, those were the ones most affected.

00:43:00.000 And some of the day traders who had to have piles of Bitcoin there so that they could trade very quickly, those were very affected.

00:43:07.000 But people who just move money in and out, you know, maybe they lost that day's take.

00:43:11.000 And if you look at it, merchants like the ones you mentioned, they don't leave stashes of Bitcoin around.

00:43:18.000 They're going to exchange that pretty quickly.

00:43:20.000 They're going to move out of the exchange if they're smart.

00:43:22.000 So they exchange it for dollars, and then they move it.

00:43:24.000 Okay.

00:43:25.000 Now, how much can you actually store on your phone?

00:43:28.000 Like, your phone.

00:43:29.000 Like, if you wanted to store a million dollars worth of bitcoin, could you put it on your phone?

00:43:33.000 You could store a trillion dollars worth of bitcoin.

00:43:36.000 You could store whatever you want.

00:43:38.000 I mean, there's no limitation.

00:43:39.000 You lose your phone. 1.00

00:43:40.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 1.00

00:43:41.000 You'd have your phone connected to your wrist and wrapped around your waist with chains. 1.00

00:43:45.000 Yeah, that would be a supremely dumb and bad idea to do.

00:43:48.000 But you can make backups of Bitcoin, which you can do with regular money.

00:43:53.000 You can have multiple copies.

00:43:54.000 You can encrypt those copies.

00:43:56.000 So you can do a lot of things to protect yourself against loss.

00:44:00.000 Can you have sub-wallets?

00:44:01.000 Can you have your main wallet and then have a sub-wallet that has a completely different passcode or way to get in?

00:44:08.000 You can have a bunch of wallets, right?

00:44:10.000 Yeah, you can actually make a whole tree structure of wallets.

00:44:13.000 So why didn't this company, this MK or whatever it's called...

00:44:17.000 Yeah, why didn't they just have a shitload of sub-wallets to protect each individual user instead of putting it into one?

00:44:17.000 MTGox.

00:44:23.000 Is that...

00:44:24.000 That goes to the gross incompetence I was talking about earlier.

00:44:27.000 So that's not how...

00:44:29.000 There are other businesses who also have custodial accounts over Bitcoin, and they implement very smart systems to segregate Bitcoin.

00:44:37.000 So, for example, on a daily basis, they will sweep 95% to 98% of the Bitcoin off into wallets that require three out of six people to come together to unlock them with the keys separated on separate devices,

00:44:54.000 And those systems are very difficult to break, right?

00:44:57.000 Because you need collusion between multiple people.

00:44:59.000 And that protects both from external theft, but it also protects from internal compromise, malicious insider, embezzlement, fraud, even by the CEO sometimes.

00:45:10.000 So there are ways to get around this.

00:45:13.000 You can have good security practices, and all of those good security practices were completely ignored by Mark. 1.00

00:45:22.000 So he's a fuckhead no matter what. 0.99

00:45:25.000 Yeah, so the question really now is gross incompetence or fraud. 1.00

00:45:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:45:30.000 And we don't know.

00:45:31.000 But in either case, it's bad.

00:45:33.000 It hurt a lot of people.

00:45:34.000 But in the end, it had nothing to do with Bitcoin.

00:45:36.000 It was a classic bank failure of the traditional kind.

00:45:39.000 It was the result of the fact that they fell in a gray area where they didn't have the protections of Bitcoin and they didn't have the regulations of a regular bank.

00:45:47.000 So this guy lives in Japan. 0.96

00:45:49.000 Did he move to Japan when the shit hit the fan, or was he there the entire time? 0.99

00:45:52.000 No, he was there the entire time. 0.98

00:45:54.000 So he's always lived in Japan.

00:45:55.000 That's where Empty Gox was based, yes.

00:45:57.000 Oh, interesting.

00:45:58.000 Okay, Empty Gox.

00:45:59.000 I love it.

00:45:59.000 And so Empty Gox now is insolvent?

00:46:03.000 Is it done?

00:46:04.000 I mean, there was some...

00:46:05.000 They were trying to do some kind of structured thing, and then I think it was four or five days ago, the Japanese authorities decided to decline and force them into liquidation.

00:46:16.000 So they are now done.

00:46:18.000 MTGox is over.

00:46:19.000 The one thing we can say about MTGox is that they can no longer hurt anyone else.

00:46:25.000 That's the good thing.

00:46:26.000 Now, this gentleman who runs it, or ran it, he's walking on the streets, he goes places, he's just like a regular guy.

00:46:33.000 Do they follow him?

00:46:34.000 I think he's under indictment.

00:46:34.000 I have no idea.

00:46:36.000 I don't know what his status is.

00:46:38.000 So he's under indictment from America and from Japan.

00:46:41.000 Correct.

00:46:41.000 And there's a warrant for him to come to the States.

00:46:45.000 Okay, so it's not as gangster as if he robbed a bank and held it up with guns. 0.99

00:46:51.000 They're not going after him with a SWAT team and dragging him back, but most likely he's fucked. 0.99

00:46:58.000 We'll see. 1.00

00:46:59.000 Yeah.

00:47:00.000 Most likely.

00:47:01.000 Yeah.

00:47:01.000 I mean, I would be surprised if he doesn't face some kind of serious consequences.

00:47:07.000 You weren't that concerned, though, about this in the overall scheme of things for Bitcoin.

00:47:12.000 You thought this was just sort of a bump in the road and that eventually it would be overwhelmed by the sheer positive benefits of cryptocurrencies.

00:47:21.000 Well, I mean, I think the thing is that it didn't really affect Bitcoin itself.

00:47:26.000 It wasn't a weakness of Bitcoin.

00:47:27.000 It was, in fact, a very strong argument for why you need to decentralize financial institutions, because when you centralize them, they fail in exactly this fashion.

00:47:35.000 That's what we're trying to change about financial services, make them more decentralized, diffuse the power so it can't be corrupted and compromised.

00:47:45.000 There are going to be more.

00:47:47.000 I'll tell you right now there are going to be more bank failures both in Bitcoin and of course as they happen every single year by the hundreds there are going to be bank failures in every currency including Bitcoin.

00:47:57.000 There are going to be CEOs who run away with the money until we implement better solutions to control the power. 0.70

00:48:04.000 So for example if you've got a startup and they're raising money in Bitcoin you don't give all of the keys to one person.

00:48:11.000 You split them among multiple people.

00:48:14.000 Because the person you think you know, who's your cherished partner in this venture and you've known all your life and your childhood friend, when they have access to a couple million dollars, they change.

00:48:27.000 People change.

00:48:28.000 They're dramatically and radically affected by money.

00:48:31.000 And then all you need is a precipitating event, an illness in the family, a crisis, you know, a bad thing happening to that person, and they will grab that money and run.

00:48:41.000 People make very poor decisions.

00:48:43.000 And they still tell you, hey man, I needed it.

00:48:45.000 Right.

00:48:46.000 And they'll rationalize it.

00:48:47.000 Or they'll make a mistake.

00:48:48.000 Day trading and making a loss.

00:48:50.000 Or losing some of the money and then trying to cover it up.

00:48:53.000 Whatever it is.

00:48:54.000 My advice to Bitcoin companies is when you're starting out, look at the person sitting next to you and do not assume you can trust them.

00:49:02.000 Assume that people are fallible.

00:49:03.000 And then put in place controls so that no single person can run away with money.

00:49:09.000 And then you're going to be much more secure and everybody will be able to be above board.

00:49:12.000 Right.

00:49:13.000 David Seaman, who was on the podcast last week, had a really interesting take on Bitcoin that I thought was kind of funny.

00:49:19.000 He was saying that if Bank of America, for say, if they were smart, that they would get involved in Bitcoin.

00:49:26.000 He was like, you already have this established name brand.

00:49:31.000 Cryptocurrencies are going to be here.

00:49:33.000 They're here to stay.

00:49:35.000 This is his take.

00:49:36.000 He's like, why wouldn't you capitalize on the name brand that you've already built in on?

00:49:41.000 And get in on the market quick.

00:49:43.000 Get in on it now in the early days and establish that Bank of America still has a footing in this as well as in regular money.

00:49:53.000 And he was like, it would be a really wise investment.

00:49:56.000 I think you're going to see that happening in short time.

00:50:02.000 We saw this with the internet, which was at first the telecommunications companies fought tooth and nail.

00:50:07.000 They could not believe that a decentralized packet switch network like the internet would deliver quality voice and quality video.

00:50:15.000 They wanted to build highly controlled and structured networks.

00:50:19.000 And they tried to fight it because it threatened the long-distance market, which was very lucrative.

00:50:24.000 It threatened many other markets.

00:50:25.000 Today, three-quarters of all international calls happen on Skype.

00:50:29.000 Three-quarters.

00:50:30.000 Three-quarters.

00:50:31.000 That's a market that two decades ago was a $15- $20 billion market and disappeared.

00:50:40.000 And essentially, they had to restructure operations.

00:50:42.000 Now, they made up for it.

00:50:44.000 The smart ones became...

00:50:46.000 Very good as internet service providers and created whole new businesses that replaced those lost revenues.

00:50:52.000 So what happened there is you have these telecom companies trying to fight it until some of the smaller ones, some of the ones that don't have solid entrenched positions and can't take advantage of size, think, you know what?

00:51:06.000 Maybe I'm going to cut off from this herd and go play with that Bitcoin a bit.

00:51:10.000 And as soon as that starts happening, there's almost a stampede because everybody tries to rush into it.

00:51:15.000 That's what happened with telecommunications.

00:51:17.000 The smaller providers started peeling off from the herd and instead of fighting it, they started trying to build service providers.

00:51:23.000 So it's really just a matter of who runs first.

00:51:26.000 Someone's going to start running and then...

00:51:26.000 Right.

00:51:28.000 Right.

00:51:29.000 And then the herd breaks apart because until the first one breaks, everyone's like, well, we're too serious for this Bitcoin stuff.

00:51:37.000 And they're looking over their shoulder trying to make sure that everybody else is also staying away from it.

00:51:42.000 But eventually the market dynamic changes.

00:51:45.000 So it's just essentially, it's just human nature.

00:51:48.000 Like with human nature, there's just certain rules that are just always going to be in place.

00:51:52.000 Play hard to get and follow the leader.

00:51:54.000 Those are two big ones.

00:51:56.000 Yeah.

00:51:56.000 And Bitcoin threatens some business structures within the banking industry.

00:52:02.000 It's going to make it difficult for them to charge exorbitant fees to do international wire transfers when you can do it cheaper, just like If you have Skype, you can't justify $3 a minute long-distance calls.

00:52:14.000 But at the same time, the smart bankers are looking at this and they're saying, yeah, but if we have a cheap, efficient, secure payment system, we can build some really interesting things on top of that and create whole new businesses that are very competitive,

00:52:30.000 that can actually give us a lead.

00:52:32.000 So we outrun the herd.

00:52:36.000 Disruption in a competitive market is actually very enticing to the second- and third-tier players, because they don't have an advantage.

00:52:46.000 They're too small to compete against the big guys.

00:52:48.000 But if they see this disruptive technology, they think, well, maybe if I hitch a ride on that, I'm going to overtake everybody.

00:52:56.000 I can be the blockbuster.

00:52:59.000 Or I can be the Netflix.

00:53:00.000 I can be the Tower Records.

00:53:03.000 Or I can be the iTunes.

00:53:04.000 And we've seen this happen in technology races before.

00:53:08.000 Yeah, that's fascinating how some people just don't want to buck the trends.

00:53:12.000 They don't want to go along with the flow of things, or they want to buck the trends.

00:53:16.000 They want to somehow or another figure out a way where they can prove everybody else wrong, and VHS is making a comeback, and renting movies is still valid. 0.99

00:53:26.000 There's a lot of those fuckers out there that just... 0.99

00:53:29.000 Won't let it go. 1.00

00:53:30.000 Radio companies.

00:53:31.000 Change is scary.

00:53:32.000 Yeah, it is scary.

00:53:33.000 But that's the nature of the beast.

00:53:37.000 Especially today.

00:53:38.000 We're involved in the craziest time for change the world has ever known.

00:53:41.000 Yeah.

00:53:43.000 At the moment, being on the top of an industry, especially an industry that's involved in technology, is a very precarious position.

00:53:51.000 If you talk to Kodak, A decade ago, do you think they would realize that suddenly the largest vendor or manufacturer of cameras in the world would be a telephone company,

00:54:07.000 Nokia?

00:54:08.000 Nokia, within three years, became the world's largest maker of cameras.

00:54:14.000 And suddenly the entire industry changed, right?

00:54:16.000 And how do you compete against that?

00:54:18.000 They're not even in your industry.

00:54:19.000 They just came out of left field.

00:54:21.000 It's like you're suddenly the horse buggy manufacturer and Ford is taking your business and you never expected that was going to happen.

00:54:28.000 Well, Nokia has a camera phone now, a Windows phone, that is some insane amount of pixels. 0.95

00:54:35.000 It's like 40 fucking megapixels or something. 0.96

00:54:37.000 Something crazy. 0.99

00:54:39.000 41?

00:54:40.000 41 megapixels, says Jamie. 1.00

00:54:41.000 Jamie's on top of that shit. 1.00

00:54:43.000 41 fucking megapixels on a phone. 1.00

00:54:45.000 I mean, this thing, I think, has the Note 3. I think it has 12 or something. 1.00

00:54:50.000 No, it's better than that.

00:54:52.000 Are you familiar with Moore's Law?

00:54:54.000 So for your listeners, Moore's Law, it was created by Gordon Moore.

00:54:54.000 Yes.

00:54:59.000 For processors, right?

00:55:00.000 Processing speed.

00:55:01.000 Yeah.

00:55:02.000 And what he said was that he estimated that because of the way silicon works, every 18 months, the speed of a computer would double or the price would drop by half.

00:55:12.000 And that has been true now for more than 25 years.

00:55:16.000 Wow.

00:55:17.000 And that thing then plays out in camera megapixels, in storage on SD cards, in the size of your smartphone, in the number of sensors you can put into the smartphone.

00:55:29.000 Battery life is the one that's lagging behind, and it's the main thing that's holding back this technology.

00:55:36.000 Moore's Law also applies to things like Bitcoin.

00:55:38.000 It also applies to networks like the internet.

00:55:41.000 And what it means is that if you're in an industry that's established and suddenly you have a competitor that's coming at you with the power of Moore's Law, you better watch out because it's not a matter of whether you will be able to compete in a decade.

00:55:54.000 It's a matter of whether your industry will still exist in a decade.

00:55:57.000 Right.

00:55:58.000 Yeah.

00:55:58.000 Right?

00:55:59.000 Isn't that fascinating that whole industries can just vanish 150 years of Kodak and then suddenly film doesn't exist.

00:56:07.000 Gone.

00:56:08.000 In a decade.

00:56:09.000 Do you remember when you used to have to pay money for long distance?

00:56:13.000 Long distance calls don't exist.

00:56:15.000 You can call New York right now on your home phone.

00:56:18.000 It's regular.

00:56:19.000 Call on your cell phone.

00:56:20.000 It's totally normal.

00:56:21.000 If you used to call long distance on a cell phone, it was an exorbitant amount of money.

00:56:26.000 Saturday afternoons, London, payphone.

00:56:29.000 When I was a student, I would go there with a stack of coins that was probably about $10 worth in today's money.

00:56:36.000 I would sit in a payphone and my family would know what time I was going to call, coordinated.

00:56:42.000 I'd call in.

00:56:43.000 There'd be a line of 15 relatives standing behind the phone on the Athens side and it'd be, Hi mom, I love you very much.

00:56:49.000 Hi dad, I love you very much.

00:56:51.000 Hey sis, it's all awesome.

00:56:52.000 Okay, next!

00:56:53.000 Aunt! 0.58

00:56:54.000 Aunt Maria! 0.97

00:56:55.000 Aunt Julie! 0.56

00:56:56.000 Aunt...

00:56:56.000 London's awesome!

00:56:58.000 And I'm stuffing coins as fast as I can into this payphone, and then, you know, four or five minutes later, $10 down the drain, and I've said hello to the entire family, and that's all I could afford.

00:57:08.000 Wow.

00:57:08.000 That was my experience.

00:57:09.000 And now you could Skype for hours for free.

00:57:13.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:57:14.000 You could look at a video of each other talking to each other through your laptop for free.

00:57:19.000 Mm-hmm.

00:57:20.000 Fascinating, fascinating times.

00:57:21.000 When you put it in that kind of a perspective, you really sort of understand the change.

00:57:26.000 The ability that we have to reach out to each other is just unprecedented in human history.

00:57:32.000 It's never been even remotely close to what it is now.

00:57:35.000 I saw somebody walking down the street the other day, Skyping.

00:57:38.000 With someone while they were walking down the street, and they were talking while they were walking down the street.

00:57:41.000 They're like, yeah, so we're going to blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:57:43.000 And the other person's on the other end.

00:57:45.000 I'm looking at their phone.

00:57:46.000 I'm like, this is crazy.

00:57:47.000 They're doing it through a cell phone connection.

00:57:49.000 I'm doing that all the time now, yeah.

00:57:51.000 Walking down the street through a cell phone connection, streaming video back and forth to each other.

00:57:55.000 It's amazing.

00:57:56.000 Amazing.

00:57:57.000 What do you think about things like, is there a reason why Apple...

00:58:02.000 Doesn't have any apps where you can exchange Bitcoin.

00:58:06.000 They have some Bitcoin monitoring apps, correct?

00:58:09.000 They've basically banned any apps that allow you to run a wallet to do transactions.

00:58:15.000 Is there a reason for that?

00:58:17.000 I mean, is there like, can you find a logical, if you try to take devil's advocate?

00:58:23.000 There's three or four reasons, and I can give you them from the obvious to the cynical and paranoid.

00:58:30.000 First of all, I think they are worried about this strange technology that they don't know anything about, and they're worried about what kind of reputation hit they'll take if one of these apps is compromised and causes their customers to lose money,

00:58:47.000 right?

00:58:48.000 More worried than Google, who allow all of these applications on Google Play.

00:58:53.000 So it's not a legal thing, because Google has lawyers too, and they're quite happy to allow Bitcoin applications, and Apple does not like it.

00:59:00.000 That's the obvious answer.

00:59:03.000 Then there's another thing.

00:59:05.000 Whenever you spend money on buying an app or buying something inside an app, Apple takes like 30%.

00:59:13.000 So their own payment system through the App Store and iTunes and all of these things generates an enormous amount of revenue because they take a very big cut of these things.

00:59:23.000 If you could put a wallet in a phone, then you could also put a wallet in an app.

00:59:28.000 Then you could also do Bitcoin transactions in an app.

00:59:30.000 Then why give Apple 30% cut If you can just bypass them and do all the payments through that.

00:59:36.000 Do you think that that's ultimately going to be Apple's demise, though?

00:59:40.000 I mean, if you want to talk about people that had a grip on a market and then it slowly slipped away, Apple had an enormous chunk of the smartphone market just a few years ago.

00:59:50.000 I mean, they had the majority of it.

00:59:53.000 Now, 80-something percent of the smartphones are Android phones.

00:59:57.000 That's crazy.

00:59:58.000 I mean, that's quite amazing.

00:59:59.000 And the technology has surpassed them.

01:00:02.000 Now you have several choices with Android phones that are waterproof.

01:00:06.000 Big giant ones, the Sony Xperia. 0.98

01:00:09.000 You could throw it underwater for a fucking half an hour. 0.98

01:00:11.000 Like five feet of water for a half an hour. 0.99

01:00:14.000 I mean, the Galaxy S5, the new one.

01:00:17.000 Water resistant.

01:00:18.000 You could take a shower with it and listen to music. 0.99

01:00:20.000 You could put a fucking... 1.00

01:00:21.000 Stuff it in your underwear. 1.00

01:00:23.000 And literally shower with the thing on.

01:00:25.000 I mean... 0.99

01:00:26.000 Fingerprint sensors, they had them first on iPhones, but now Samsung Galaxy's S5 has a fucking heart rate monitor. 0.97

01:00:34.000 I mean, they're ahead of the curve. 0.96

01:00:37.000 The Android phones aren't playing catch-up with Apple anymore.

01:00:41.000 Now they're bypassing them.

01:00:43.000 And I wonder if that's going to happen with things like iTunes, exchanges.

01:00:48.000 Right now it's convenient to use iTunes, but once I switched over to Android, I found a thing called DoubleTwist, where you could send your music to your phone.

01:00:58.000 You could use iTunes with this thing.

01:01:01.000 And also, I found Amazon MP3. Which is just as easy to use, if not easier, than iTunes.

01:01:08.000 iTunes is a horrible application.

01:01:10.000 I can't stand it.

01:01:11.000 It's like you put it on your Mac and you get a pinwheel every time you click on anything, especially if you have a large collection.

01:01:18.000 And it hasn't really changed or improved much at all.

01:01:22.000 But it does ask you to accept the terms and conditions every time you sneeze.

01:01:27.000 So you have to click on that thing.

01:01:29.000 It's like, listen, Apple, I've accepted the terms.

01:01:33.000 I haven't read them.

01:01:34.000 No one's read them.

01:01:35.000 But I accept them.

01:01:36.000 I accept them forever.

01:01:37.000 Just give me a checkbox that says, from now on until the end of time, I accept.

01:01:41.000 I accept.

01:01:43.000 Please.

01:01:44.000 Yeah, do a retina scan.

01:01:46.000 Every time I look at your app, assume I'm accepting.

01:01:50.000 I like iTunes for some things.

01:01:52.000 I use it still to buy movies.

01:01:53.000 I use it on my laptop exclusively.

01:01:55.000 I use it on my home computer exclusively.

01:01:58.000 Like if I'm buying music, I buy my music and I buy it all through that.

01:02:02.000 But on my phone, it's just as easy to buy it through Amazon.

01:02:06.000 It's very simple.

01:02:07.000 It's not like some new thing you have to learn.

01:02:10.000 Same process.

01:02:11.000 You search a genre, search an artist.

01:02:13.000 Oh, I wanted to buy...

01:02:14.000 Like, we were in the green room the other day at the Orlando Hard Rock, me and Joey Diaz, and Joey Diaz goes on this epic rant about Led Zeppelin, Led Zeppelin 1, because there was a poster on the wall that I took a picture of, and I put it up on my Instagram...

01:02:27.000 It was the first tour poster from Led Zeppelin in 1968-69.

01:02:32.000 And we were like, could you fucking imagine what that must have been like to experience Zeppelin for the first time back then? 0.69

01:02:40.000 Joey was going off about how it blew people away. 0.84

01:02:43.000 So, listening to him, I get inspired.

01:02:46.000 I go to my phone.

01:02:47.000 As he's talking, within like 10 seconds, I type Led Zeppelin in the search.

01:02:51.000 Boom! 0.99

01:02:52.000 It's downloading.

01:02:53.000 Three seconds after that, bam! 0.97

01:02:55.000 I'm playing the album.

01:02:57.000 I mean, like, wow!

01:02:58.000 That's crazy!

01:02:59.000 I put it on speaker, we sit down, and we start laughing about how easy that is to do and how amazing this music is.

01:03:06.000 Well, yeah, exactly.

01:03:07.000 Apple changed the way we think about music, changed the way we think about phones, and created all of these new technologies.

01:03:16.000 But this happens again and again in technology.

01:03:18.000 Let me give you the context.

01:03:20.000 By the way, iTunes Store is not loading right now.

01:03:23.000 Just to show you.

01:03:24.000 Pinwheel.

01:03:25.000 It's pinwheeling right now.

01:03:27.000 I clicked it as you brought that up.

01:03:29.000 I said, let's see.

01:03:30.000 And I clicked it. 0.97

01:03:31.000 It's fucking not loading! 0.97

01:03:34.000 What happens with technology again and again is that you always have to make this trade-off. 0.97

01:03:40.000 You want to have an experience that's very tightly controlled and therefore consistent.

01:03:46.000 You combine a very limited set of hardware, a very limited set of features, but what you get is that it works every time consistently.

01:03:54.000 And then you can have this kind of Wild West situation as you do with Android.

01:03:58.000 And at first, it creates a lot of fragmentation and everything's inconsistent and it doesn't work very well.

01:04:03.000 But over time, here's what happens.

01:04:06.000 The controlled situation that gave you the advantage at first starts lagging behind innovation because it can't change fast enough.

01:04:13.000 The Wild West starts getting better and better at quality, until eventually it wins.

01:04:19.000 We've seen this happen over time.

01:04:22.000 Then the control situation has to open up the borders again, let everybody flood in, do a lot of fragmentation and experimentation, and the cycle starts again.

01:04:31.000 That's going to happen too.

01:04:32.000 I mean, we're going to see much more openness in music.

01:04:35.000 We're going to see more openness in phones as a result of this.

01:04:38.000 And then Apple will have to actually go out and invent something new instead of just, you know, small incremental changes. 0.99

01:04:45.000 This Apple shit's bothering me, man. 0.99

01:04:48.000 Bothering me? 1.00

01:04:48.000 Bothering me. 1.00

01:04:49.000 It's 52% Android and 41% is Apple.

01:04:49.000 What?

01:04:55.000 Is that UX or mobile?

01:04:55.000 Really?

01:04:56.000 When I read there was 80. That's...

01:04:58.000 I read 80 somewhere.

01:04:59.000 And Apple still has sold more applications.

01:05:03.000 Apple has sold 50 million apps, I think, or something like that.

01:05:08.000 And Android has sold up to 48 million apps total sold.

01:05:11.000 What's bothering you about it?

01:05:14.000 It says 81%, man, on CNET. CNET says Android dominates 81% of the world's smartphone market.

01:05:19.000 Yeah, that's the global versus, I think what you quoted is U.S., and it's a very different market.

01:05:23.000 Oh, okay.

01:05:24.000 Well, let's look at it globally.

01:05:26.000 So Asia has a much bigger Android penetration.

01:05:29.000 Okay, that's what I read.

01:05:30.000 I was in Vancouver this weekend, and I had to use my Android phone completely, only using my Android phone.

01:05:36.000 No iPhone at all.

01:05:37.000 And I do not understand...

01:05:40.000 People that say that the Android phone is better in any way.

01:05:43.000 The camera was horrible.

01:05:45.000 I tried to take so many photos using that camera.

01:05:47.000 And this is the Note 3 that has a really nice camera. 1.00

01:05:50.000 That camera is a piece of shit. 1.00

01:05:52.000 All Samsung does is add a bunch of crap to their phones to be the first. 1.00

01:05:57.000 But they do it so half-assed that it just doesn't work. 0.97

01:06:00.000 You keep on saying this.

01:06:01.000 The heartbeat sensor and the thumbprint thing is one of the worst implications.

01:06:06.000 The thumbprint in the new S5 is horrible. 0.99

01:06:08.000 People are saying it's the dumbest thing ever. 0.98

01:06:10.000 It never works. 1.00

01:06:11.000 It's just a piece of shit. 1.00

01:06:13.000 Well, that's exactly the compromise. 1.00

01:06:14.000 You either have control and tight quality, but it's slow, or you have speed, but it's, you know, at first, it's flaky. 1.00

01:06:23.000 Yeah, and I would be the first to say, hey, you're right, you know, this iPhone is a piece of shit. 0.93

01:06:28.000 I still buy all the newest phones just because I'm looking, just like everyone else, to find something better, but man, I... You can't break this thing being quality. 0.98

01:06:37.000 It's always working.

01:06:38.000 You have the best photos you can possibly get.

01:06:40.000 All the apps are perfect for it.

01:06:42.000 I definitely agree with you on the photos.

01:06:44.000 There's a big difference between the iPhone photos and the Android photos.

01:06:48.000 I think the sensor on the iPhone is a lower megapixel but much higher quality.

01:06:54.000 It's just a better phone.

01:06:56.000 But what is a megapixel on an iPhone?

01:06:58.000 It's like 8. 8?

01:06:59.000 8. People forget lenses and things like that, which make a huge difference.

01:07:03.000 Carl Zeiss lens.

01:07:04.000 It's actually 13 megapixels on the Galaxy Note 3, but it's not as good.

01:07:12.000 It's fine if the light is good.

01:07:14.000 Are you talking, Jamie? 1.00

01:07:15.000 You know you don't have a microphone on, you motherfucker. 1.00

01:07:17.000 I can't hear you. 1.00

01:07:18.000 What are you doing?

01:07:19.000 Why don't you make sign language at me?

01:07:21.000 Can't hear that either.

01:07:24.000 There's...

01:07:25.000 I mean, I think there is a better camera than the iPhone, but it's not the Note 3. I think there is a better one out there.

01:07:31.000 Yeah, I'm sure there is a better camera, but I'm just saying...

01:07:33.000 Okay, let's find out.

01:07:34.000 What's the best...

01:07:35.000 Let's Google.

01:07:35.000 Best smartphone camera.

01:07:37.000 I bet Apple's in the top, too.

01:07:39.000 There was also a report saying that, you know, why it's such a big share is not because of quality, it's because of price.

01:07:45.000 That Android users are more poor...

01:07:48.000 and they get more technology for the money so that's why it's become so popular because all the poor markets are buying it so it looks like Android's just destroying Apple In that regards, but it's not meaning that it's a better product.

01:07:59.000 Best smartphone camera overall, iPhone 5S. It's the mass market audience, especially in Asia where you can get an Android phone for $50 to $100 instead of $300 to $400 equivalents for an iPhone.

01:08:14.000 Image stabilization and dual LED flash.

01:08:17.000 You got one of the best phones for taking pictures in low light or any situation.

01:08:21.000 Apple has improved its camera I'll tell you one of the coolest things, I think you could do this on the Android also, it's burst mode, but being able to just, and I didn't even know I had it.

01:08:35.000 If you just hold down the camera, it just takes a million photos.

01:08:38.000 So if you're with, say you want a picture of Joe Rogan, you just sit there, hold down the camera, it will go and take like 300 photos of you.

01:08:46.000 And then you can just choose which one you didn't blink and stuff like that.

01:08:49.000 I do miss the camera.

01:08:50.000 That's the one thing I miss. 0.77

01:08:50.000 But I don't miss that little bitchy screen. 0.77

01:08:53.000 That little screen's a joke. 0.84

01:08:54.000 That's all you have to wait.

01:08:54.000 Well, June.

01:08:55.000 Yeah, allegedly.

01:08:56.000 But that's the 4.7 one.

01:08:58.000 The 5.5 one's not going to be for a long time.

01:09:00.000 Yeah, it's September.

01:09:01.000 So says you, what are you, a Mac insider? 1.00

01:09:04.000 Who the fuck do you know, boy? 0.99

01:09:05.000 And this humongous iPad's coming out. 0.99

01:09:07.000 Yeah, that's all good, dude, but this, I'll take it every day.

01:09:11.000 I'll take that all day.

01:09:12.000 It's not important, the camera's not nearly as important to me as being able to do my email, go online, everything plays, like flash, anything that has flash on it plays, no problem.

01:09:22.000 That, to me, is gigantic.

01:09:24.000 When I look at a YouTube video and it's that goddamn big, To me, that's huge. 0.89

01:09:29.000 And also, the stylus. 0.99

01:09:30.000 I fucking love this thing. 0.97

01:09:32.000 Are you kidding me, man? 0.99

01:09:33.000 Yeah, I never use it.

01:09:34.000 Every time I use a stylus, they're like, I'm just wasting my time.

01:09:36.000 Why am I doing this?

01:09:37.000 Well, I use it a lot for writing my jokes.

01:09:40.000 Right.

01:09:41.000 That's interesting that you do that, too, because it seems so much...

01:09:44.000 I don't know.

01:09:45.000 I'm just so fast on the keyboard that...

01:09:47.000 Yeah, I mean, it's not the fast thing.

01:09:48.000 For me, it's a memorization thing.

01:09:50.000 When you actually write things physically with your hand, you can remember them better.

01:09:55.000 And this took, um, for a long time I was still bringing the notebook as well, but I gave up on the notebook.

01:09:55.000 Yeah.

01:10:01.000 I do it all on this thing now. 0.72

01:10:02.000 I tell you man, since this iPad Air, I've been taking my iPad almost everywhere, and now I don't give a shit about my phone, this is just for texting.

01:10:09.000 You mean pad or pod? 0.55

01:10:10.000 My iPad.

01:10:12.000 Oh, I thought you said pod.

01:10:12.000 Pad.

01:10:13.000 Yeah.

01:10:14.000 This thing's so light, and like, you could just keep it everywhere, and like, if you really want to surf the net, you know, even the new one, the small one.

01:10:21.000 Yeah, that is a good move, but you can't put it in your pocket.

01:10:25.000 I honestly just don't trust the apps in the App Store and the Google apps and the back doors and the hackability of the operating system.

01:10:35.000 To me, I think the iPhone is just a brick and your important stuff, your text messages and your crap like that should have the highest security.

01:10:43.000 Not something that's so easily been hacked.

01:10:46.000 So right here, this comparison between control, quality, but slow innovation versus speed, choice, fragmentation, but flakiness and weird security problems and cutting edge, that choice is playing out.

01:11:01.000 In many areas of technology, whether it's...

01:11:04.000 And this choice played out on the internet at first, which was the idea that the internet was a far inferior network to the carefully controlled...

01:11:12.000 If you like it, the phone companies were doing the iPhone of networks, right?

01:11:16.000 And the internet was like the scrappy, messy Android of networks.

01:11:21.000 But over time...

01:11:23.000 It continued to innovate and get better.

01:11:25.000 And the other systems got slower and slower and less innovative.

01:11:29.000 And so the closed systems have that problem.

01:11:32.000 They lag.

01:11:33.000 But they offer you much better control and quality and security at first.

01:11:37.000 So here's the thing.

01:11:39.000 That's been happening in finance.

01:11:41.000 And in finance it's much worse because the closed control systems of the banks...

01:11:48.000 have existed for hundreds of years and this scrappy new Bitcoin thing which is not as fast in many cases but fast in other cases has more choice but also puts more responsibility for security it's more flaky it's more scrappy it's more versatile it gives you a hell of a lot more choice and it allows you to innovate really really fast It doesn't give you the quality.

01:12:11.000 You don't have the controls and security, supposedly.

01:12:16.000 But at the same time, the banking system is failing to deliver to consumers.

01:12:20.000 It's failing to deliver security because people can get away with massive theft on it.

01:12:25.000 And so now what we're seeing is this exact same scenario that you described, that we saw with the Internet versus telecom networks, that we saw with iPhone versus Android, is now playing out in finance with Bitcoin.

01:12:36.000 That's fascinating.

01:12:37.000 They say that the best camera for power users is that Nokia.

01:12:42.000 Nokia, they had on Tom's Guide.com is what I'm reading.

01:12:47.000 They've rated a bunch of different ones. 1.00

01:12:49.000 I don't know why Tom really knows his shit. 0.99

01:12:52.000 Seems like a highly rated sight. 1.00

01:12:54.000 But the 41 megapixel camera apparently is just unbelievable.

01:12:58.000 The photos are so big that even when you zoom in, like way in, like you could take a photo and zoom way in and still crop it and it's still an excellent photo.

01:13:07.000 Yeah, that's about the only reason why you'd want that many megapixels though, honestly.

01:13:10.000 Yeah, it really is, right?

01:13:11.000 Because megapixels...

01:13:13.000 People stopped caring about megapixels a while ago, for the most part.

01:13:17.000 Even some of the higher-end cameras just kind of stopped.

01:13:20.000 Even though they could go bigger, they...

01:13:21.000 I mean, it's just not as important as when it was, like, from one megapixel to five megapixels.

01:13:26.000 Unless you're making, like, billboards or something.

01:13:28.000 Unless you're making billboards, or you really are just gonna spend time just cropping out sections of large photos.

01:13:33.000 And even that, with such a small device that's in your hand, I would imagine that there's a lot of blur.

01:13:38.000 And even if you do crop out little pieces, it's still not going to be like something like if you had a tripod and a DSLR or something like that.

01:13:45.000 Yeah, they're saying that the Galaxy S5 is a big improvement too from the Note 3 as far as cameras go.

01:13:51.000 Yeah?

01:13:51.000 Yeah.

01:13:52.000 You get to a point of saturation where it becomes good enough.

01:13:55.000 You remember the time when you bought a computer based on how many gigahertz it had and how fast it was and you needed to upgrade every year?

01:14:02.000 And then we reached the point probably five or six years ago when you bought a computer and then it was still perfectly fast enough Four or five years later and you didn't need to upgrade it anymore, right?

01:14:12.000 Or when you used to need a bigger and bigger hard drive every single year and then you reach a terabyte and now you're like, well, I can store everything, so I'm done.

01:14:19.000 I don't need any more, right?

01:14:20.000 Same thing with megapixels.

01:14:21.000 You reach a point where at first it makes a really big difference and then it's such a small difference that it doesn't matter anymore.

01:14:29.000 You've reached saturation.

01:14:30.000 You have to find something else to emphasize, some new innovation.

01:14:34.000 Yeah.

01:14:35.000 Yeah, at a certain point in time, it's going to be very difficult for one company, like a company like Apple, to compete with the overwhelming amount of companies that are producing Android phones.

01:14:44.000 That's the open ecosystem.

01:14:46.000 That's the difference between being able to innovate in multiple places versus trying to control everything.

01:14:51.000 And you can really see that, too, if you pay attention to the original Android phones and what they are today, as opposed to the original iPhone, which was incredibly innovative.

01:14:59.000 The original iPhone is pretty close to what they have today.

01:15:04.000 I mean, it was very similar in size, very similar in look.

01:15:08.000 Obviously, the resolution got better, the camera got better, it got quicker, it moves better, it has more features. 0.98

01:15:14.000 But the original Android phones were dogshit! 0.99

01:15:19.000 Yes. 1.00

01:15:19.000 They were so bad. 1.00

01:15:21.000 Do you remember, did you have one, Brian?

01:15:22.000 Yeah, I had the first Droid.

01:15:23.000 Yeah.

01:15:24.000 God, I have one too.

01:15:25.000 It was so bad.

01:15:26.000 I had it for one day.

01:15:27.000 And I brought it back in.

01:15:28.000 The Verizon guys were trying to talk me out of it.

01:15:30.000 And I go, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

01:15:33.000 I'm like, look, take it.

01:15:34.000 And they're like, well, you don't want to bring it back.

01:15:36.000 Just get used to it.

01:15:38.000 I'm telling you, I really like it. 1.00

01:15:39.000 Get this piece of shit away from me. 0.99

01:15:41.000 Because I had an iPhone, and I tried to switch to a Droid to go on Verizon at the time. 1.00

01:15:46.000 Oof.

01:15:46.000 Is that what you had, Brian?

01:15:47.000 Yeah, here's me doing a review of the first one.

01:15:50.000 Oh, play it.

01:15:51.000 Four years.

01:15:52.000 The phone has a 5 megapixel camera.

01:15:54.000 It's got a flash.

01:15:55.000 The camera is really good.

01:15:58.000 It has a washout, rainy look though, unfortunately.

01:16:02.000 And you have to uninstall. 0.99

01:16:06.000 Look at all this shit. 0.97

01:16:08.000 There's some things about it where you're just like, why don't they just copy what works? 0.99

01:16:13.000 The iPhone works, that's the best way to delete applications, whatever.

01:16:17.000 So there's a couple things here and there that I don't like.

01:16:19.000 What's crazy is that down the line, more that droids started becoming more unpopular, they did start copying everything that iPhone used, and that's why they're in court right now, Samsung versus Apple.

01:16:29.000 Yeah, what is the lawsuit about?

01:16:32.000 Do you know the specifics?

01:16:33.000 Just a lot of different things, like the unlock screen, I think, like how you unlock the phone, and just different operating system shit that pretty much they kind of just copied.

01:16:45.000 That Apple figured out first?

01:16:46.000 Yeah.

01:16:47.000 And so the new iPhone is supposed to come out in June?

01:16:49.000 Is that what they're doing?

01:16:50.000 June is supposedly the new iPhone 6, and then they're going to have the giant one, supposedly.

01:16:54.000 It's just what they do every year, where they announce it in June, and then it's like the next month they'll have one come out.

01:17:00.000 And then the bigger one, I guess, and the only reason why they're waiting a little bit longer is because the panels that they're going to be using in the new phone are back-ordered so much.

01:17:08.000 Because when Apple starts selling something new, it's, you know...

01:17:11.000 It pretty much just destroys anyone that does that.

01:17:14.000 You know, like, we make 5-inch screens.

01:17:15.000 Well, yeah, Apple's going to buy 5 million of these.

01:17:18.000 Right.

01:17:19.000 Their screens are different, too.

01:17:21.000 That was another thing that I was reading about the difference between the HT1 M8, which is probably the highest-rated Android phone.

01:17:31.000 Have you seen that one?

01:17:31.000 Right.

01:17:32.000 It's pretty fucking slick. 0.95

01:17:32.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:17:34.000 An actual Apple website was reviewing the HTC One M8 and they were saying that if Apple built an Android phone, this would be the phone that they built. 0.90

01:17:47.000 It's pretty fucking slick.

01:17:48.000 And they actually have a different approach to cameras entirely. 0.96

01:17:52.000 They have a small megapixel phone.

01:17:54.000 That's a slick looking phone.

01:17:55.000 Apparently the sound on these is incredible.

01:17:59.000 The sound is supposed to be amazing.

01:18:01.000 Literally, it sounds like a little boombox.

01:18:04.000 I think that's one of the big deals, too, that why I haven't been happy with as much as the Android is.

01:18:10.000 I really think that Samsung is not actually the best maker of the phones.

01:18:14.000 I think even these HTCs seem a little bit better put together.

01:18:20.000 Yeah, well, this one is particularly well-designed, but this one only has a 4-megapixel, what they call ultra-pixel phone.

01:18:29.000 Yeah, or ultra picture camera rather.

01:18:31.000 And I don't understand that.

01:18:33.000 But it has two camera lenses.

01:18:35.000 You see what they're doing there?

01:18:36.000 While you're clicking back and forth?

01:18:38.000 What the two lenses are, there's two different cameras on the back.

01:18:43.000 And those two cameras allow you to blur out the foreground or the background if you so choose to.

01:18:49.000 It's pretty slick for photos.

01:18:51.000 I've seen the pictures.

01:18:53.000 But 4 megapixels is just, the images are just not going to be as large.

01:18:58.000 The real question becomes, is 4 megapixels enough?

01:19:01.000 For a phone.

01:19:01.000 See, I think that's what's weird is phones are actually taking over cameras.

01:19:05.000 I haven't looked lately, but I'm pretty sure that...

01:19:08.000 That camera sales, especially pointed shooters, are completely...

01:19:11.000 Oh, they're in the shooter.

01:19:12.000 Yeah, in the shooter.

01:19:13.000 I used to buy them all the time because, you know, those were great to put in your pocket, but nowadays you don't need that.

01:19:19.000 Yeah, I have one that I use just for after shows, like where I have people line up and take pictures with them, and then I put it up on my website because it saves time.

01:19:30.000 But the...

01:19:33.000 The actual need for them for the average person is almost non-existent.

01:19:38.000 Unless you're one of those SLR type people that has a big crazy lens and all that jazz.

01:19:43.000 I guess that technology you were talking about, like blurring the foreground, is actually built into the new Android operating system, that whole thing.

01:19:52.000 Yeah, you can do it with software.

01:19:53.000 The difference with the HTC One is it actually does it with hardware as well.

01:19:58.000 It's supposed to look slicker.

01:19:59.000 They have that ability to do it on the Samsung Galaxy S5 as well.

01:20:06.000 You can do that in the background.

01:20:08.000 I just think that what HTC has decided to do is try to do it with two different cameras at the same time.

01:20:16.000 So would you say this is the one to buy now if you were going to get a new Android?

01:20:21.000 Or do you think the Nexus, right?

01:20:23.000 I love the Nexus.

01:20:24.000 I like the HTC One, too.

01:20:26.000 I have to say, I think both of them are great hardware solutions.

01:20:30.000 Then you have to really be careful about what software is loaded on them.

01:20:34.000 Because depending on which carrier you get it from, they're going to have different quality of software, whether it's the latest KitKat or An earlier version.

01:20:41.000 I get my phones unlocked, I wipe them, and I replace the software with my own choices immediately.

01:20:46.000 Not everybody does it.

01:20:47.000 How hard is that?

01:20:48.000 How much time does that take?

01:20:50.000 I mean, it takes me two or three days to get everything done, but...

01:20:50.000 It's not a matter of...

01:20:55.000 I mean, you know, not full-time.

01:20:56.000 Not that much time.

01:20:57.000 That's a lot of time, man.

01:20:59.000 Nobody does this stuff.

01:21:00.000 Listen, I'm a technology contrarian.

01:21:02.000 Android versus iPhone, I do Android.

01:21:05.000 Windows versus Linux, I do Linux.

01:21:07.000 Even when it's, at first, dogshit user experience, I do it anyway for the freedom and the versatility.

01:21:13.000 But you have a Mac laptop.

01:21:14.000 And I'm an early adopter on Bitcoin.

01:21:18.000 And so, yeah, I have a Mac laptop.

01:21:21.000 Do you run Apple on it or do you run something crazy?

01:21:23.000 I run Apple on it, and I also run Linux machines on it, too, as virtual machines.

01:21:28.000 So I have a combination of operating systems here.

01:21:30.000 You run Linux on an Apple laptop?

01:21:31.000 You could do that?

01:21:32.000 Yeah.

01:21:33.000 I know that you could do that.

01:21:35.000 Do they still have that option to run Windows on Mac laptops?

01:21:37.000 Yeah, I've got Windows 7 here, too.

01:21:39.000 Wow, Windows 7. Man, have you used Windows lately?

01:21:42.000 That's so...

01:21:43.000 When are they just going to give up and start over?

01:21:46.000 They're not going to.

01:21:47.000 They still have a giant chunk of the market.

01:21:49.000 I love what they're doing now is that they're actually making money off of still supporting Windows 98 to banks.

01:21:56.000 They were like, no, we give up on Windows 98 or XP, and we give up on Windows XP, but if you want to pay us, we'll still support it.

01:22:04.000 Do you remember when they had Windows stores at the mall that didn't sell anything?

01:22:08.000 Yeah.

01:22:09.000 They had a Windows store and I went in and I'm like, do you guys sell computers? 0.99

01:22:12.000 I go, what the fuck are you doing? 0.99

01:22:12.000 They go, no. 0.99

01:22:15.000 You guys are Windows and you don't sell computers?

01:22:17.000 Well, we're Windows.

01:22:18.000 We're not computer sellers.

01:22:19.000 We're an operating system.

01:22:20.000 They sold Windows.

01:22:21.000 You could buy Windows there.

01:22:23.000 Yeah.

01:22:25.000 Like, who's running this?

01:22:26.000 Let me talk to that guy.

01:22:27.000 Hey, dude. 1.00

01:22:29.000 This is fucking stupid. 1.00

01:22:30.000 You have all this cool shit. 1.00

01:22:32.000 You should have a variety of different manufacturers of really cool computers. 0.99

01:22:36.000 Yeah.

01:22:37.000 Maybe I'm wrong.

01:22:38.000 Now the Windows stores now sell everything.

01:22:41.000 Oh, they do?

01:22:42.000 They have laptops, they have all that stuff, the Surface.

01:22:45.000 And there's still none of it selling.

01:22:46.000 Yeah.

01:22:47.000 You know, I'm more interested in these Android notebooks.

01:22:50.000 I saw one the other day.

01:22:50.000 I think that's the way to go.

01:22:52.000 If you just want a little teeny notebook to put in your, you know, to check email and stuff like that.

01:22:56.000 Maybe they did sell computers, and I'm wrong.

01:23:00.000 I think there were some early Windows stores that didn't.

01:23:02.000 It was just more like Kiosks, or no, not...

01:23:05.000 Yeah, when I went to one of them, that's what I remember.

01:23:07.000 Maybe I'm wrong.

01:23:08.000 I'm trying to remember because it was quite a while ago, but I remember going in and my kids were playing with one of the things that they...

01:23:14.000 Look at this, this article on CIO.com.

01:23:17.000 Four things you'll love about HTC One's and four you won't.

01:23:20.000 What you won't love about the HTC One M8, duo camera is disappointing.

01:23:25.000 The single most unfortunate thing about the HTC One is the camera.

01:23:29.000 The device rear-facing four megapixel duo camera with ultra pixel technology.

01:23:34.000 Stop moving.

01:23:35.000 Two different lenses allows the user to detect and calculate the relative distance of subjects in the image.

01:23:42.000 Sounds cool, right?

01:23:43.000 Well, except for...

01:23:44.000 The measly 4 megapixels.

01:23:46.000 It doesn't take long at all to realize that while the camera works fairly well in dimly lit environments.

01:23:53.000 So that was the idea.

01:23:54.000 They kept with a low megapixel to somehow or another have it function better in low environments.

01:24:01.000 But then the quality during the day is to be desired. 0.98

01:24:06.000 So you're going to use it most of the time, probably during the day, It sucks.

01:24:11.000 Okay, so there's only two options that are really good if you want to go with phones. 0.63

01:24:18.000 It's that Lumina and the Apple.

01:24:21.000 Those are the two big ones.

01:24:23.000 Oh, and apparently the Sony Xperia, too.

01:24:26.000 For cameras.

01:24:27.000 Yeah, the Sony Xperia apparently has a pretty dope camera too.

01:24:30.000 So I think the reason they're putting two cameras on the back of the phone, which would be interesting, is where you get the ability to shoot 3D directly.

01:24:38.000 Because if you think about it, this phone is now wide enough that you can separate the cameras by about as much as your eyes are separated, the focal distance, and then you can shoot direct 3D. Off two cameras.

01:24:51.000 Well, do you remember when they had that for a while?

01:24:53.000 They had 3D photography on some of those crazy phones.

01:24:56.000 Remember?

01:24:57.000 Wasn't good enough.

01:24:57.000 Yeah.

01:24:58.000 They were really weird.

01:25:00.000 And it only worked on your phone.

01:25:01.000 It wouldn't work on the computer.

01:25:03.000 We'll get there.

01:25:05.000 The first iteration is always kludgy. 0.99

01:25:10.000 Kludgy? 0.90

01:25:11.000 Yeah, kludgy. 0.88

01:25:12.000 What's kludgy mean?

01:25:13.000 It's rough.

01:25:14.000 It's rough around the edges.

01:25:16.000 Is that an English word?

01:25:16.000 That's a word I've never used.

01:25:18.000 It's a geek word.

01:25:21.000 How dare you?

01:25:21.000 It would be heard of me.

01:25:23.000 How dare you double it?

01:25:24.000 Urban Dictionary.

01:25:26.000 Oh, it's an urban one?

01:25:27.000 I don't know.

01:25:28.000 It's a geek term.

01:25:30.000 The first iteration of a technology is always flaky, but if it's powerful and disruptive enough, then there'll be an incentive to make it better.

01:25:41.000 When I used the first iterations of web browsers, they were terrible.

01:25:45.000 The first versions of Android, they were terrible.

01:25:47.000 And guess what?

01:25:48.000 The first versions of Bitcoin wallets are terrible.

01:25:51.000 But I have choice, and I love that.

01:25:54.000 I'd rather be on the cutting edge and be dealing with something that's rough around the edges and get to experience the technology as it matures.

01:26:02.000 Eventually, it will get to the point where it's as easy to use as an iPad, which is how my mom got on the internet, and Bitcoin will get to that point, too.

01:26:12.000 To me, choice is more important than polish, but for other people, they go with the opposite choice, and that's perfectly understandable. 1.00

01:26:20.000 That's interesting, man.

01:26:21.000 Yeah, I agree with you in a lot of ways, but I think that there's a similarity to Windows and Apple, you know, as far as, like, Apple phones and, you know, the whole idea of the way Apple locks things down and controls it,

01:26:38.000 and Windows, where they don't, and they allow you to get into the registry, they allow you to do a lot of things with your computers that a lot of power users like.

01:26:46.000 Maybe break it.

01:26:47.000 Yeah, the average person might, it might fuck it up. 0.66

01:26:49.000 Yep.

01:26:50.000 So, do you think that that could possibly have like a rational effect on Apple's decision to not have Bitcoin wallets outside of the commerce?

01:27:01.000 Oh, absolutely, yeah.

01:27:02.000 So, as I said, you know, the straightforward one is that it introduces risk in an environment that is deliberately conservative about quality, security, and control over the environment.

01:27:12.000 So, they're going to be slow to adopt things that are disruptive.

01:27:17.000 And it's also self-serving because it threatens their payment network.

01:27:22.000 And it might be self-serving because it also threatens their ability to introduce their own form of digital currency or digital wallet, which there are a lot of rumors that they're in working on that.

01:27:35.000 You can take all of those together and it makes sense, but it's not a long-term decision because if there's enough momentum behind digital currencies, eventually they're going to add them.

01:27:46.000 Slower than everybody else, but they will get there.

01:27:48.000 Have you thought about the future and looked at the technological trends and tried to extrapolate what would be the method for exchanging and controlling Bitcoin in the very near future?

01:28:01.000 Is there A better version of what these apps can provide on phones that you believe could be implemented sometime in the near future?

01:28:10.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:28:11.000 I mean, at the moment, you don't want to have a lot of the raw...

01:28:18.000 Elements of the system exposed to users who don't want to learn anything about these.

01:28:23.000 So right now, there's a pretty steep learning curve.

01:28:25.000 If you want to understand digital cryptocurrencies, just a name alone, like cryptocurrencies, sounds so awfully geeky and weird.

01:28:32.000 But if you want to understand digital money, let's start by renaming that, right?

01:28:36.000 So digital money.

01:28:37.000 If you want to understand digital money, You get introduced these terms public key private key encryption address wallet Bitcoin address Transaction all of these are confusing terms because they don't actually mean what they what they what you think they mean so a Bitcoin wallet is It's not actually a wallet,

01:29:00.000 because it doesn't contain coins.

01:29:02.000 It only contains the keys that allow you to unlock the coins.

01:29:04.000 The coins are actually on the network.

01:29:06.000 And you get into all of these things where you've picked a name, that name evokes a thought, but that thought doesn't quite match what's really happening, so it ends up confusing rather than enlightening, right?

01:29:19.000 So a good name is one that tells you how this is going to work, because it evokes the correct paradigm, the correct user interface Design.

01:29:31.000 And so we don't have that in Bitcoin yet.

01:29:34.000 The words are wrong.

01:29:35.000 The terminology is wrong.

01:29:37.000 The user interface and user experience is still very, very geeky.

01:29:40.000 And, you know, that happened on the Internet.

01:29:43.000 I remember watching in 1994, there's this classic segment on Good Morning America.

01:29:50.000 When they're like, so the thing with the at sign, is that the internet?

01:29:54.000 No, no, Kelly, that's email.

01:29:57.000 And the dot, that's the internet.

01:30:00.000 And so why are there all these slashes?

01:30:02.000 And what is an IP address?

01:30:04.000 And I don't really understand any of this, right?

01:30:06.000 And you get two things.

01:30:08.000 One, the technology gets smoother and more polished.

01:30:11.000 And the words get, at the same time, the culture changes.

01:30:16.000 And the culture gradually adopts the terminology so that now people are more comfortable with the weird words and the words have gotten less weird and somewhere in the middle they meet and you get mainstream adoption.

01:30:29.000 Are people working on trying to get any sort of a Bitcoin wallet reintroduced into the Apple market?

01:30:36.000 The App Store?

01:30:37.000 Because there was one for a while, right?

01:30:38.000 Was there more than one or it was one?

01:30:40.000 There was more than one and now there's more too.

01:30:42.000 There's new ones that have been reintroduced already.

01:30:45.000 To the Apple Store?

01:30:46.000 They use a few little, how do I call this, loopholes.

01:30:46.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:30:50.000 Are you outing them or should we not say their names?

01:30:53.000 I won't say their names at the moment, but there are ways to do this.

01:30:57.000 Then what's the point? 1.00

01:30:58.000 You're the fucking Bitcoin Jesus. 1.00

01:31:00.000 If you don't say their names, they don't get promoted and they fucking die on the vine. 1.00

01:31:03.000 They'll get pulled immediately. 0.99

01:31:04.000 Will they get pulled immediately if you say their name?

01:31:06.000 It's like an emulator for Nintendo's pop-up almost every day on the store.

01:31:10.000 It's like some backdoor into some food cooking program.

01:31:12.000 Yeah, if people want to find Bitcoin wallets for iOS, they can search for those terms and find them.

01:31:18.000 Okay.

01:31:19.000 And essentially...

01:31:21.000 The other way to do it is by building a pure HTML5 wallet that runs entirely in the browser.

01:31:26.000 And then it's not an app you install, it's a page you visit, but it's fully functional and looks like an application.

01:31:32.000 Do they have those?

01:31:33.000 We're building those.

01:31:34.000 Every company in the space is building one of those right now.

01:31:36.000 To avoid the whole app system?

01:31:38.000 To get around the app system and to enable users to use it through the browser.

01:31:38.000 Yeah.

01:31:42.000 And you still have to use Apple's browser though, correct?

01:31:45.000 You can't use Chrome yet.

01:31:46.000 Can you use Chrome for Apple?

01:31:48.000 No.

01:31:50.000 Yeah.

01:31:50.000 They have a Chrome application now?

01:31:52.000 They have Microsoft Word now on iOS.

01:31:54.000 Really?

01:31:55.000 So any HTML5 browser, and that's the nice thing about HTML5, it's the new version of the web protocol, and it will run on any browser, on any device, and it will give you a full app-like experience.

01:31:55.000 Nice.

01:32:06.000 It doesn't feel like a web page.

01:32:07.000 It feels like an application.

01:32:09.000 That's interesting.

01:32:11.000 That's really interesting.

01:32:12.000 So that will cut it all out.

01:32:13.000 If you can get online, then you can get to this web page, then you can trade Bitcoin, period.

01:32:18.000 So, exactly.

01:32:19.000 And this is what's exciting about the Bitcoin space for me, which is that we talk about this idea that we're going to convert dollars to Bitcoin.

01:32:28.000 Like, if only, say, Amazon adopts Bitcoin, then all of the stuff they're selling through Bitcoin will now be sold through Bitcoin instead of dollars.

01:32:39.000 It's like chewing out little parts of the traditional economy and just converting it into a different currency.

01:32:45.000 And that is boring.

01:32:47.000 It is so not the point.

01:32:49.000 That's a bit like thinking that the internet succeeds when all phone calls happen on the internet and we've taken over the entire fax market and now fax is dominated by internet fax.

01:33:02.000 And the whole point is that it made fax irrelevant.

01:33:05.000 It didn't replace it.

01:33:07.000 It made it irrelevant.

01:33:08.000 And it didn't replace phone calls.

01:33:10.000 It gave people better communication tools and different communication tools.

01:33:14.000 I'm more interested in what we can do with Bitcoin that can't be done today rather than replacing the things we already do with dollars or Visa and making a better Visa, a better PayPal, a better online shopping experience.

01:33:26.000 That stuff is boring.

01:33:27.000 So here's what's happening.

01:33:29.000 Within the Bitcoin economy, there's now hundreds of startups and they're hiring people.

01:33:34.000 We have a jobs fair in Sunnyvale on May 3rd where we're going to have hundreds of people and dozens of companies with job openings hiring developers and designers and marketing professionals and all kinds of things like that.

01:33:46.000 Now, for those who are probably new to this market, a jobs fair is this thing that happened before 2008 Where companies actually had jobs and would come to you in order to find you.

01:34:00.000 And we're doing this in Bitcoin because of this incredible spirit of innovation that's been unleashed.

01:34:06.000 So if you're an entrepreneur and you look at these rough edges and you look at these difficulties in the system and you look at the fact that it's not ready for mainstream adoption, what you see is opportunity.

01:34:19.000 Massive opportunity.

01:34:21.000 Because, remember, at first on the internet you couldn't find anything.

01:34:25.000 So someone said, well, how about we build a search engine?

01:34:29.000 And now that's a multi-hundred billion dollar company, right?

01:34:33.000 And search became an entire industry out of a single problem.

01:34:39.000 And the problem was you couldn't find anything.

01:34:41.000 Now you can find everything.

01:34:43.000 And so at first people said, well, the internet's never gonna succeed because you can't find anything on the internet.

01:34:48.000 And smart entrepreneurs took that problem and said, no, if I solve this problem, not only do I make the internet work, but I also create an entirely new industry.

01:34:56.000 So right now, Bitcoin is difficult to use.

01:34:59.000 But if you solve that problem...

01:35:01.000 If you take, for example, the fact that a Bitcoin address is like a 37-character thing, and it's unreadable, and you hide that, just like we no longer use IP addresses on the internet, we use nice and easy to use names.

01:35:14.000 We used to use, you know, 192.168.0.1, and I had a list in my wallet of IP addresses.

01:35:22.000 If I wanted to go to the Stanford website, I had to pull out my wallet and look up their IP address.

01:35:27.000 That's how it used to work.

01:35:28.000 And there was no way that was going to go mainstream.

01:35:32.000 So each one of these problems, each one of these rough edges is an opportunity to create a whole new industry that does things in a different way, that reinvents financial services and that makes them new and innovative and decentralized and enables things that have never been done before.

01:35:52.000 This is not about making a better shopping experience.

01:35:55.000 It's about doing things we couldn't do before.

01:35:58.000 And eventually, people are going to build wallets that are very easy to use, and wallets that are going to be very beautifully designed.

01:36:05.000 And we're beginning to see that now, as all of these startups are rushing in to fill in the gaps, to polish all the rough edges, and to deliver real quality consumer products, so people can take this incredible underlying power of Bitcoin,

01:36:21.000 And turn it into an everyday experience that a person who doesn't want to know about any of the geeky stuff, about encryption, about keys, about all of that, simply says, I want to send Joe some money.

01:36:32.000 And the wallet is Joe, money, send.

01:36:36.000 And all of the rest is hidden in the background.

01:36:38.000 And we're getting there.

01:36:39.000 And we are getting there and it sort of mirrors what's already been done with the internet.

01:36:45.000 So people can sort of see the path.

01:36:47.000 It's not like it's some completely new thing that's never been done before.

01:36:50.000 No one's ever taken something that was unbelievably complex, simplified it, made it mainstream.

01:36:55.000 Online.

01:36:56.000 Yeah, they have.

01:36:56.000 You could see it.

01:36:58.000 So with Bitcoin, it's like the path is already lit.

01:37:00.000 You just have to get people that are brave enough to step forward, and that's obviously happening.

01:37:05.000 Except for one fundamental difference.

01:37:06.000 We don't have to lay hundreds of thousands of miles of new copper and fiber line.

01:37:11.000 Across the ocean.

01:37:12.000 We don't have to build the physical infrastructure because it's already there.

01:37:17.000 The internet took a decade and a half to spread in terms of adoption, and one of the big Issues was getting high-speed internet to enough people and then getting fully on all-the-time internet.

01:37:28.000 Remember the days of dial-up?

01:37:30.000 Remember modems going...

01:37:31.000 Right.

01:37:36.000 That's a car alarm, dude.

01:37:37.000 I know.

01:37:38.000 Now...

01:37:39.000 It was impossible to get my mom to do email if she had to first turn on the computer, log on, double-click, start the dial-up, do all of this with her phone that made her phone busy so she couldn't actually use it. 0.82

01:37:51.000 It would drop off sometimes, too.

01:37:53.000 And then connect and sync the email.

01:37:55.000 Now she swipes her iPad and the email is there and she doesn't know how it works.

01:38:02.000 All of this is always on.

01:38:03.000 It's Wi-Fi.

01:38:04.000 Boom.

01:38:04.000 It's simple.

01:38:05.000 Done.

01:38:06.000 That's the progression we're going to see.

01:38:08.000 That's fascinating.

01:38:11.000 What are, right now, as of today, what are the changes in Bitcoin since the last time you were on?

01:38:18.000 There are some really interesting things happening, I think.

01:38:22.000 So, let's see.

01:38:23.000 It's been a while, you know, in real life it's been two and a half months, which in Bitcoin terms is like two and a half years.

01:38:32.000 So much has happened, it's just ridiculous.

01:38:35.000 One of the interesting things we've seen is serious efforts and results in building multi-signature capabilities.

01:38:43.000 I don't think we even talked about that last time, or maybe we mentioned it briefly.

01:38:47.000 What is multi-signature capabilities?

01:38:49.000 So this is a feature that was added to the core protocol, the Bitcoin protocol, back in November of 2013, officially, and would work.

01:38:56.000 So, when you send Bitcoin to someone, what you're doing is almost like signing a digital check, and you're saying from Joe Rogan's wallet, and you sign at the bottom to say, yes, I'm releasing this money to Redband.

01:39:09.000 Great.

01:39:10.000 And the Bitcoin network will look at that signature and say, that's Joe Rogan's signature.

01:39:10.000 So you've sent it.

01:39:14.000 Great.

01:39:15.000 So therefore now the money belongs to Redben.

01:39:17.000 You've done the transaction.

01:39:18.000 So what your wallet is doing, what your phone is doing when it's sending Bitcoin to someone, is it signing a transaction with your key to basically say, I authorize this.

01:39:29.000 It takes one signature to release the money from your wallet.

01:39:34.000 Multisig allows you to build wallets that require multiple signatures.

01:39:38.000 Let's say you were running a company, and you wanted to make sure that every single time you made a Bitcoin transaction, it had to be signed by the CEO and the chief financial officer.

01:39:53.000 Now you could say, well, it requires two out of two signatures.

01:39:58.000 The account has two signatures associated with it.

01:40:01.000 Both must sign in order to do that.

01:40:04.000 Or you could create a joint account between two spouses.

01:40:07.000 You could say it requires one of two signatures.

01:40:10.000 Here's the signature of one spouse.

01:40:13.000 Here's the signature of the other spouse.

01:40:14.000 If either of them signs, you can do it.

01:40:18.000 You could create a trust account where you have either the signature of one spouse and a trustee or the other spouse and a trustee.

01:40:28.000 To sign off for the account of a child, for example.

01:40:32.000 You could create an escrow account where you say, I'm gonna sell you Joe something.

01:40:37.000 And you send me the Bitcoin and I don't deliver.

01:40:40.000 What happens then?

01:40:41.000 That's a problem, right?

01:40:42.000 Right.

01:40:43.000 You can't get a refund.

01:40:44.000 Now instead of that, you send the Bitcoin to an account that requires two of three signatures.

01:40:50.000 Your signature, my signature, and an escrow party.

01:40:54.000 A third party that works as an arbitrator between us.

01:40:57.000 So, if I send you the stuff that you wanted and you are happy with it, we both sign, I get the money.

01:41:04.000 Right?

01:41:05.000 So you've paid me.

01:41:06.000 It's like an escrow, like you do with PayPal and eBay.

01:41:08.000 Right.

01:41:10.000 Now, if we have a dispute, You call the arbitrator and you say, I'm not happy, I didn't get this product.

01:41:17.000 And you and the arbitrator sign and get the refund, send the money back to you.

01:41:22.000 But if I'm not satisfied because I really did send you the product and you just don't want to pay for it, I persuade the arbitrator that you're cheating, I sign it with the arbitrator, two out of three signatures, get the money to myself.

01:41:36.000 So you can create these complex environments where you can do escrow, you can do trust accounts, you can have third-party arbitration for refunds, so that you can solve problems.

01:41:49.000 And you can create more complex forms of transactions that give you better security and better trust.

01:41:55.000 That seems like you would really have to trust the arbitrator and they would have to somehow or another not be in cahoots with one party.

01:42:04.000 Yeah.

01:42:04.000 So when you use the Visa network You abide by Visa's arbitration rules, right?

01:42:12.000 So if you do a chargeback, and they're going to contact the merchant and say, well, show us a signature from this transaction, and Visa's arbitration rules apply, whether you like it or not.

01:42:21.000 When you use eBay, PayPal arbitration rules apply.

01:42:25.000 Whether you like it or not, the means of payment determines the rules of arbitration.

01:42:30.000 So that seems like a good opportunity for something like...

01:42:34.000 Bank of America to get involved with.

01:42:36.000 Yes.

01:42:37.000 PayPal could be one of the arbitrators.

01:42:38.000 If you like the arbitration rules of that group, you could use them.

01:42:45.000 Here's the interesting thing, though.

01:42:47.000 What it does is it allows you to say, I'm going to have a market of arbitration providers, all with different rules and different levels of trust, and some of them will have very good reviews.

01:42:59.000 Because people had good experiences with them.

01:43:01.000 Some of them are specialized in real estate and some of them are specialized in auction markets and some of them are specialized in antiques and some of them are specialized in art appraisal.

01:43:10.000 And so I'm doing a transaction with you and I want to buy an antique.

01:43:14.000 I'm going to 200 antique arbitrators.

01:43:18.000 I'm going to pick the one with the highest level of reviews.

01:43:20.000 He's an expert in appraising antiques.

01:43:22.000 He's going to do a good job for us.

01:43:24.000 We agree that's the one we want to use.

01:43:26.000 Now it opens up all of these possibilities, and it creates a whole new market for these services.

01:43:31.000 So you've taken trust that was centralized in someone like PayPal.

01:43:35.000 You didn't have a choice but to use their arbitration.

01:43:38.000 And you decentralize it, and now you have a market where the buyer and the seller can decide what rules apply.

01:43:44.000 So do you believe that this is very similar to what we were talking about before with banks, that one person just has to do it, start profiting on it, and then the rush will be for all the others to sort of join in on the bandwagon?

01:43:54.000 There's already an arbitration market where lawyers and real estate agents and others are providing arbitration services for a small transaction fee, like 0.1% of the transaction, in order to provide escrow capabilities.

01:44:08.000 And you can do that when you buy something with Bitcoin.

01:44:10.000 You can now use escrow.

01:44:11.000 And this is all within the last time you were here?

01:44:14.000 The technology was nascent and the services were still being built and now they're being built faster.

01:44:20.000 So that two months really is like two years.

01:44:22.000 Yeah.

01:44:23.000 Let me give you another example which is really cool.

01:44:25.000 A lot of people are worried about their Bitcoin being stolen from their wallets because of a hack.

01:44:31.000 So one of the ways you can use multisig, which is very interesting, is to have a two of three account.

01:44:39.000 And what I mean by two of three, it means it has three signatures registered, and you require at least two of those three signatures in order to authorize a transaction.

01:44:48.000 You keep one.

01:44:50.000 You keep another one as a backup.

01:44:53.000 Print it on paper, put it in a safe.

01:44:55.000 That's your recovery, in case something goes wrong.

01:44:58.000 And then you give the third signature to a service that checks every transaction for risk.

01:45:03.000 And what they do is, when you make a payment, they look at the merchant that you paid, they look at their history, they look at what kind of amount it is.

01:45:11.000 Is this usual?

01:45:12.000 Is it like $10 and you normally spend that?

01:45:15.000 Or did you just suddenly try to transfer half a million dollars out of your account and wipe it clean to a random address they've never seen before?

01:45:22.000 Based on that, they're going to risk score it, and then they're going to call you.

01:45:26.000 They're going to send you a text message and say, we're seeing a transaction here you've requested for $2,500 to a merchant we've never seen before that you normally don't do.

01:45:34.000 Are you sure?

01:45:36.000 Respond 1 for authorizing this transaction.

01:45:38.000 Respond 2 to cancel it.

01:45:41.000 And if it's a really big one, maybe they're going to call you on the phone and you're going to speak to Jim.

01:45:44.000 And Jim is going to say, can you please give me the last four of your social?

01:45:48.000 I want to check this.

01:45:49.000 Whatever.

01:45:49.000 You can reintroduce some of the fraud prevention systems that banks do.

01:45:56.000 But the really cool thing is, now that's a market.

01:45:59.000 Instead of having to do it with your payment provider, you can pick who gives you a risk service.

01:46:06.000 That's fascinating, but it's sort of along the same lines of the difference between Apple locking everything down, you know it's secure, you're not going to get a virus from an app, and the wild world of, like...

01:46:21.000 Like, say, a perfect example would be like BitTorrent.

01:46:26.000 Yes. 0.98

01:46:26.000 You know, you fucking download a program from BitTorrent. 0.98

01:46:28.000 Good luck, son. 0.99

01:46:30.000 Better cross your fingers, because you never know what the hell you're going to get, right?

01:46:33.000 So here's the thing. 0.95

01:46:35.000 By the way, these pickles are goddamn delicious. 0.93

01:46:37.000 If you want a pickle, Grillo's Pickles, send us some pickles. 0.97

01:46:40.000 They're amazing.

01:46:41.000 Have you had the sweet ones?

01:46:42.000 Yes, they're my favorite.

01:46:44.000 You want one? 0.99

01:46:44.000 Can you, now, can the normal Joe go over and buy Grillo's Pickles, or is there a website, or is it just like local shit, only people? 0.99

01:46:51.000 Yeah, no, you can get them delivered. 0.89

01:46:52.000 Grillo's Pickles dot com delivers now.

01:46:55.000 They're the nicest guys ever, too.

01:46:56.000 They came to our show in Boston.

01:46:58.000 They gave out free pickles to the whole crowd.

01:47:00.000 Dude brought like a million dollars worth of pickles and handed it out to 2,000 people.

01:47:04.000 It's all fresh, too.

01:47:05.000 Do they take Bitcoin?

01:47:06.000 They should.

01:47:08.000 Grill those pickles. 1.00

01:47:08.000 Get on the ball, bitch. 1.00

01:47:10.000 You shouldn't really start Bitcoin now, right? 0.99

01:47:12.000 Like, if I wanted to buy a Bitcoin, I wouldn't want to start now.

01:47:15.000 I would want to wait.

01:47:17.000 Because I'm not going to spend, what, $500 for a single Bitcoin.

01:47:21.000 Can you buy pieces of Bitcoin?

01:47:22.000 Yeah, you can buy very small amounts.

01:47:24.000 Oh, you can?

01:47:24.000 Where do you do that?

01:47:26.000 So most of the exchanges or places where you can buy Bitcoin, you can probably buy, like, I think the minimum is $20 or something like that worth.

01:47:34.000 Okay.

01:47:35.000 So you can buy a 20th of a Bitcoin.

01:47:39.000 Theoretically, you could go and buy a hundred millionth of a Bitcoin if somebody was willing to sell it to you, but usually it's not worth doing for them at that amount.

01:47:48.000 So you can divide it as much as you want.

01:47:50.000 You do not need to spend an enormous amount.

01:47:53.000 And then, again, the thing is, what are you going to use it for?

01:47:56.000 If you're going to try and use Bitcoin to invest in Bitcoin, be very, very careful.

01:48:02.000 Do not take your retirement fund and all of your savings and dump them into this wild ride.

01:48:07.000 That is not smart, right?

01:48:09.000 And I need to say that again and again.

01:48:11.000 People, don't do that.

01:48:12.000 I mean, I've done some of that, and it's not prudent, but my career is tied to this.

01:48:19.000 I'm in the industry.

01:48:20.000 This is not for the mainstream investor.

01:48:22.000 And it's not really an investment.

01:48:25.000 I'm sorry.

01:48:26.000 Please go.

01:48:27.000 Maybe put a couple percentage points of a nicely diversified portfolio.

01:48:32.000 Like, I'll throw, you know, $1,000, maybe $2,000.

01:48:35.000 If I lose it, I lose it.

01:48:37.000 If I don't, in the meantime, I can play with it.

01:48:39.000 I can buy a bit of Bitcoin, learn about the technology, feel like I'm part of an early adopter thing.

01:48:44.000 That's cool.

01:48:45.000 Don't go putting all your money in Bitcoin.

01:48:47.000 That's not smart.

01:48:48.000 What happened to that one dude who had like $9 million in Bitcoin in a hard drive and he couldn't find it?

01:48:53.000 So he was going through the dump with a fine-tooth comb trying to figure out where that hard drive was.

01:48:58.000 Do you remember that story?

01:48:59.000 Yeah.

01:49:00.000 Well, fortunately, he didn't buy that Bitcoin.

01:49:02.000 He was just one of the people who were involved in mining several years back.

01:49:06.000 And then he forgot about it.

01:49:07.000 And then he realized this whole hard drive he'd thrown away actually had a wallet which had 7,500 Bitcoin on it or something like that.

01:49:13.000 That's hilarious, by the way.

01:49:15.000 But it's no loss.

01:49:16.000 You're going to have treasure hunters as a new occupation.

01:49:19.000 It's no loss because he didn't actually have it.

01:49:22.000 You know, he didn't...

01:49:24.000 But if he had it, he would have it.

01:49:26.000 It could be a gain.

01:49:27.000 So it's a loss.

01:49:28.000 Yes. 1.00

01:49:28.000 It's a fucking loss, man. 1.00

01:49:30.000 It's not going to keep the dude from committing suicide. 1.00

01:49:32.000 Well, I think it's going to create a whole new treasure hunting business.

01:49:37.000 People are going to start...

01:49:38.000 And already we've seen this.

01:49:40.000 People buy old computers on eBay, go through the hard drives and find wallets on them.

01:49:45.000 Or porn, or financial information, identity theft, stuff.

01:49:49.000 Yeah, people need to know that, too. 0.99

01:49:51.000 If you get rid of a hard drive, you've got to wipe that bitch clean. 1.00

01:49:54.000 You have to do more than that. 0.81

01:49:55.000 You gave me a bunch of your hard drives, I wiped them clean, but I still didn't throw them away because I know that there's programs out there that could just do that.

01:50:01.000 So now I'm thinking, what do you do?

01:50:02.000 Just dip them in acid? 1.00

01:50:04.000 We should shoot them. 1.00

01:50:05.000 Yeah, I'll shoot them. 1.00

01:50:06.000 That'll be fun. 1.00

01:50:07.000 Let's do it.

01:50:08.000 All right.

01:50:08.000 While we're having this conversation, at the very moment we're having this conversation, my watch keeps buzzing every now and then.

01:50:15.000 What do you got on your watch?

01:50:16.000 It's a Pebble.

01:50:17.000 It's a smartwatch.

01:50:19.000 Oh, how dare you?

01:50:20.000 You're one of those guys?

01:50:21.000 Well, I'm getting Bitcoin notifications of people tipping me over Twitter as we're speaking.

01:50:26.000 Whoa! 0.71

01:50:27.000 Which is very, very cool.

01:50:28.000 I'm sitting here and as I say things, if I say something that people like, my watch buzzes a bit because people start sending me tips.

01:50:34.000 That's dope. 0.93

01:50:35.000 It's so weird.

01:50:35.000 That's pretty cool.

01:50:37.000 That's pretty cool.

01:50:38.000 And now it's buzzing a lot.

01:50:39.000 Can they steal from you? 1.00

01:50:41.000 Can they be like, fuck you? 1.00

01:50:42.000 Can you get like a negative shock if you say something stupid? 1.00

01:50:45.000 Are you willing to take a chance? 1.00

01:50:47.000 I think that's, again, as I said, if you're an entrepreneur, there's an opportunity.

01:50:52.000 Yeah.

01:50:53.000 Pay someone to wear a shock collar that's ridden by Bitcoin.

01:50:57.000 What do you got there?

01:50:57.000 So, I got my blockchain.

01:50:58.000 I just re-downloaded my blockchain app.

01:51:01.000 And, you know, just checking to see.

01:51:04.000 What number should I give out?

01:51:07.000 If people were like, Brian, what's your number?

01:51:09.000 Your address.

01:51:09.000 This address right here?

01:51:10.000 Yes, the address.

01:51:11.000 So, there's no dangers of giving.

01:51:13.000 People were telling me.

01:51:14.000 No, it's like giving out your email address.

01:51:16.000 Better, actually.

01:51:17.000 Because it doesn't reveal any information about where you are or who you are or any of that.

01:51:22.000 All it allows people to do is send you money.

01:51:24.000 Sweet.

01:51:25.000 And that's nice because you can put that on a t-shirt.

01:51:28.000 You can put it on a QR code.

01:51:29.000 In fact, there was this guy who went to a football game with a giant QR code they'd printed.

01:51:35.000 And during the ESPN coverage when they were on the Jumbotron, they held it up and it said, pay for my college or something like that.

01:51:42.000 They made like two and a half grand or in a matter of minutes because people would see it on TV, take a snapshot and send them a little Bitcoin.

01:51:49.000 Wow.

01:51:50.000 Wow.

01:51:51.000 Why not?

01:51:51.000 There's a congressman who went to a recent meeting wearing a sandwich board with a QR code on the front where you could donate Bitcoin to him.

01:51:59.000 Wow!

01:52:00.000 It's perfectly safe.

01:52:01.000 You could publish that.

01:52:02.000 You could put it on posters around the city if you want.

01:52:04.000 I might tweet it right now.

01:52:05.000 That's fantastic.

01:52:06.000 That's fantastic.

01:52:07.000 And Joe, so many people asked me for your Bitcoin address so they could send you Bitcoin.

01:52:12.000 Do you know what it is?

01:52:12.000 Can you tell me what it is?

01:52:13.000 If you still have the application, absolutely, yeah.

01:52:16.000 Yeah, we'll give it out.

01:52:17.000 We'll see what happens. 0.98

01:52:18.000 Somebody sent me one, too, and I'm like, how the fuck did you even get this? 0.96

01:52:21.000 Yeah, I know. 0.83

01:52:22.000 It's really funny.

01:52:23.000 The watch is buzzing all the time.

01:52:25.000 Yeah, that watch.

01:52:26.000 I'm not a big fan of the Dick Tracy watch. 1.00

01:52:29.000 That shit's ridiculous. 0.99

01:52:30.000 I only use it, you know what I use it for most of the time? 1.00

01:52:33.000 For notifications on TripIt when I'm traveling, it tells you like, and it goes gate change, and I don't miss my flight.

01:52:39.000 I mean, that's useful.

01:52:41.000 Yeah, I heard the Pebble's the best one out right now, still.

01:52:44.000 I'm quite happy with it.

01:52:45.000 I'm enjoying it a lot, yeah.

01:52:47.000 What's the difference between the Samsungs and the Pebble and...

01:52:50.000 I don't know.

01:52:51.000 I got this as a gift, and it's the only one I've ever used, and I'm just still playing with it.

01:52:55.000 So, here's something weird that happened to me after the first Joe Rogan.

01:52:59.000 Here's my thing.

01:53:00.000 Yeah, you still got it there?

01:53:02.000 Looks like somebody sent me one, too.

01:53:04.000 Yeah, how...

01:53:04.000 Right after I got some...

01:53:06.000 Put this in front of a camera.

01:53:09.000 How will that work?

01:53:10.000 People can see the QR code on your phone.

01:53:13.000 You can hold it up to the camera that's pointing at me over there behind you.

01:53:18.000 And that will...

01:53:22.000 Is that going to work?

01:53:23.000 There you go.

01:53:24.000 Right there.

01:53:25.000 Once the brightness stabilizes.

01:53:29.000 Yeah, but you can publish that address, and that's Joe Rogan's Bitcoin address right there, and hopefully you can say hello to Joe with money.

01:53:39.000 You can publish it later.

01:53:41.000 You can just copy that, put it in an email.

01:53:44.000 If people give me any real money, I'll donate to charity, by the way.

01:53:46.000 Yeah.

01:53:47.000 Just to let you know.

01:53:48.000 That's always a good thing to do.

01:53:49.000 By the way, charity has become one of the dominant forms of payments in Bitcoin.

01:53:57.000 A lot of people are doing a lot with charity.

01:54:00.000 And it's because you can send money very quickly.

01:54:02.000 You can see how the money is being spent.

01:54:05.000 There's this fantastic charity that I'd like to mention, which is based in Pensacola, Florida, where they've made it pretty much illegal to be homeless.

01:54:14.000 They first banned sleeping outdoors, then they banned blankets.

01:54:18.000 And they try to solve the homeless problem by busing them to other cities around and kicking them out of the area.

01:54:24.000 I support that.

01:54:25.000 How do we do that?

01:54:26.000 Sweet.

01:54:28.000 Brian, you missed the point.

01:54:30.000 The point is that's evil.

01:54:32.000 Those poor people are poor.

01:54:34.000 Actually, most of them are veterans, coming back from the war and having no jobs and having PTSD and no treatment.

01:54:39.000 Well, I don't know of most of them, but there are quite a few.

01:54:42.000 40%.

01:54:42.000 Is it really?

01:54:43.000 40% of the homeless population in this country is made up of veterans.

01:54:47.000 That's a shame.

01:54:48.000 So Jason King from Sean's Outpost, seansoutpost.com, started collecting money with Bitcoin and used that money last year in the first year of the charity to feed 60,000 meals to the homeless people of Pensacola,

01:55:04.000 Florida.

01:55:04.000 That's incredible.

01:55:05.000 And managed to create fundraising events from all around the world and to convert that money very effectively into food products.

01:55:12.000 For people who desperately need it.

01:55:14.000 And that's just one example.

01:55:15.000 There's a lot of charity.

01:55:17.000 BitGive, the BitGive Foundation, which coordinates charitable giving 100 bitcoins, which is a charity that will literally give 100 bitcoins to any charity that wants to take bitcoin.

01:55:29.000 They already have, they've raised the money, and now they're trying to find charities to give the money away to.

01:55:33.000 How can I... I mean, that was just an image.

01:55:36.000 That thing was just an image.

01:55:38.000 The Bitcoin...

01:55:39.000 The barcode?

01:55:40.000 Yeah, whatever it is.

01:55:41.000 How would I put that online?

01:55:44.000 So I can...

01:55:45.000 Screenshot it.

01:55:46.000 I've received one.

01:55:47.000 Screenshot it.

01:55:48.000 I've received one.

01:55:49.000 0.01 Bitcoin.

01:55:52.000 It's already happening.

01:55:53.000 Approximately $4.92.

01:55:56.000 Ah, $4.20. 0.96

01:55:57.000 Oh shit, my phone's blowing up. 0.97

01:55:59.000 I just got five Bitcoins. 0.99

01:56:02.000 Or five donations. 1.00

01:56:04.000 Just from that stupid image. 1.00

01:56:05.000 That's incredible. 1.00

01:56:06.000 What if I put that image online?

01:56:08.000 How do you make a screenshot with an Android phone?

01:56:11.000 I can send you a QR code that corresponds to your address.

01:56:14.000 It's fairly easy for me to generate it.

01:56:16.000 You can share that QR code through the application.

01:56:19.000 Or you can just post the address above it.

01:56:21.000 The QR code is just the address.

01:56:23.000 It's the same number that starts with a one.

01:56:26.000 That long series of digits is just in the form of a barcode to make it easier.

01:56:31.000 I need to find out how you screenshot with a Galaxy Note 3. I use mine.

01:56:35.000 There's different ways you can do it.

01:56:36.000 Mine, I just swipe my hand from left to right over the screen.

01:56:40.000 Really?

01:56:40.000 Yeah, and it takes a screenshot.

01:56:41.000 But I think I chose to do that through the settings.

01:56:46.000 There's got to be a way, right?

01:56:48.000 Yeah.

01:56:49.000 But there's got to be an easier way.

01:56:51.000 Like a button you press or something like that?

01:56:53.000 Open settings, motions and gestures.

01:56:55.000 Oh, that's the only way to do it?

01:56:58.000 Huh.

01:56:59.000 That's S5. It doesn't always work.

01:57:01.000 Yeah, but before we're done with the show, I'll get that barcode ready for you.

01:57:06.000 You could post it on this show and see what happens.

01:57:08.000 Okay, you press the power button and the home button at the same time.

01:57:14.000 So how did he get that cool bar on his?

01:57:18.000 The barcode?

01:57:19.000 Yeah.

01:57:20.000 You just touch the barcode on the home screen of your application.

01:57:22.000 Okay.

01:57:23.000 And it will make it bigger.

01:57:25.000 I'm going to send this image...

01:57:27.000 I'm gonna put it on Instagram and then we'll see what's up.

01:57:33.000 Let's see if this does something.

01:57:37.000 If you click on the receive button, right Ben?

01:57:42.000 And then I think it's one of the tabs at the bottom and then The problem is they won't let us make new iPhone applications because it's lagging behind.

01:57:54.000 At least they still let me download it, though, because I got a new iPhone the other day and they still let me download the old program off the iTunes store.

01:58:01.000 Maybe because you already had it on your iTunes.

01:58:03.000 If you already own something, you're still allowed to re-download it somehow.

01:58:08.000 Really?

01:58:08.000 Yeah.

01:58:09.000 So even if it's gone?

01:58:10.000 Yeah.

01:58:11.000 That's interesting.

01:58:12.000 Yeah, it's kind of like so people that spent money on something, they still own that product, so they can't really take it away.

01:58:18.000 Okay, I just Instagrammed it, which means it also went to my Twitter and my Facebook, so almost 2 million people.

01:58:26.000 I have access to that image right now.

01:58:28.000 Let's see if my phone explodes.

01:58:31.000 I've had that happen with an explosion.

01:58:33.000 So let me tell you a great story of fundraising using Bitcoin.

01:58:37.000 Did you hear about this story with Newsweek where they came out and said, we found the creator of Bitcoin.

01:58:43.000 Yes!

01:58:43.000 That's the thing I wanted to talk to you about most today.

01:58:46.000 Great. 1.00

01:58:46.000 That poor bastard. 1.00

01:58:47.000 I have a great story for you exactly about what happened and we've got a video online to share as well. 0.99

01:58:53.000 I was at a conference the morning I found out about this, and I looked into it.

01:58:57.000 A lot of people in the Bitcoin space are interested in who Satoshi Nakamoto is.

01:59:02.000 There's been a lot of research.

01:59:03.000 I think we should leave the person alone, and it's probably not going to be good to find out who it is, because all it's going to do is smear that person.

01:59:11.000 They're going to try and smear him.

01:59:13.000 I would rather not know, because it doesn't matter.

01:59:15.000 The math is what matters, not who it is.

01:59:19.000 But people are obviously curious.

01:59:23.000 When I found out about this person in the Los Angeles area that was fingered by Newsweek as Satoshi Nakamoto, then...

01:59:33.000 And by the way, I don't want to create more publicity for this poor man because he is not Satoshi.

01:59:38.000 And it's become abundantly clear.

01:59:42.000 We've got a lot of writing by the original creator of Bitcoin and it doesn't match any of the style of...

01:59:48.000 It's beginning to pour in.

01:59:49.000 My phone is on constant vibrate right now.

01:59:52.000 Yes.

01:59:53.000 Listen.

01:59:57.000 It's just constantly vibrant.

01:59:59.000 Make it happen, Bitcoin community.

02:00:01.000 I'm counting on you.

02:00:02.000 That's all Bitcoin coming in right now.

02:00:04.000 Dollar dollar bills, yo!

02:00:07.000 That's awesome.

02:00:08.000 Justin Wren, Fight for the Forgotten.

02:00:10.000 You're getting all this money, dude.

02:00:12.000 Justin Renn, our pal that's in the Congo.

02:00:14.000 Thank you.

02:00:15.000 That's great.

02:00:16.000 Exactly.

02:00:18.000 He's a great guy who's living in the Congo right now, and he builds wells for these pygmies. 1.00

02:00:24.000 He gets the medicine.

02:00:25.000 This poor guy has gotten horrible diseases while he's been down there.

02:00:30.000 He had dengue fever. 0.95

02:00:32.000 He almost fucking died, and he is dedicating his entire life I will donate all of this to my friend Justin. 0.98

02:00:43.000 And it's going to keep coming in. 1.00

02:00:45.000 Holy shit, dude. 1.00

02:00:47.000 This is nuts. 0.97

02:00:48.000 Okay, so the...

02:00:50.000 This is pure madness.

02:00:52.000 You want to feel my phone?

02:00:53.000 Can I sit on it? 1.00

02:00:55.000 Put it up your ass. 1.00

02:00:57.000 I have a hungry ass, so it's coming in. 1.00

02:01:00.000 This is ridiculous. 0.99

02:01:01.000 There's a big community out there, and they're very generous. 0.97

02:01:04.000 Yeah, no, they most certainly are.

02:01:06.000 I'm not kidding, ladies and gentlemen.

02:01:07.000 I got about 100 donations in the past minute.

02:01:10.000 Wow.

02:01:11.000 My phone can't even keep up.

02:01:12.000 And you didn't need to make any arrangements with these people.

02:01:15.000 There was no banks involved.

02:01:17.000 There was nothing.

02:01:18.000 It was just direct from them to you.

02:01:20.000 Boom.

02:01:20.000 Charity happening in real time.

02:01:23.000 Yeah, this is crazy.

02:01:25.000 That's cool.

02:01:26.000 Yeah, this is madness, man.

02:01:29.000 I can't wait to steal it from you.

02:01:29.000 Some people are donating real money, too.

02:01:33.000 You can't steal my Bitcoin, dude.

02:01:35.000 Are you a hacker?

02:01:36.000 What are you doing?

02:01:38.000 I've received donations that in some cases exceeded $3,000 in a single donation for a charitable cause.

02:01:45.000 That's incredible.

02:01:47.000 Okay, people are sending me like 20 bucks.

02:01:50.000 It's crazy.

02:01:51.000 Yeah, like there's a lot of them, man.

02:01:54.000 Not like a few.

02:01:56.000 Like a lot of them that are like 20 bucks because it tells you what it is approximately by today's standard when it pops up.

02:02:03.000 This is nuts, man. 1.00

02:02:04.000 I better shut my fucking phone off. 1.00

02:02:05.000 I'm going to run out of batteries. 1.00

02:02:06.000 Goodbye battery.

02:02:07.000 Just close the program.

02:02:09.000 On Samsung, you have to hold it down, turn it to the left.

02:02:12.000 I know all that.

02:02:13.000 How dare you? 1.00

02:02:15.000 Don't fucking... 1.00

02:02:16.000 Shut up, dude. 1.00

02:02:17.000 You don't know shit. 1.00

02:02:19.000 Fucking, you're an Apple fanboy, you know that? 1.00

02:02:21.000 How about that, bro? 1.00

02:02:22.000 You're a fucking Apple fanboy. 1.00

02:02:24.000 I want to do mine by just going... 1.00

02:02:25.000 There. 1.00

02:02:26.000 Ah, fuck you. 1.00

02:02:28.000 Well, I can... 1.00

02:02:28.000 No, you task manager, you just press close all. 1.00

02:02:30.000 You don't even have that option on the iPhone. 1.00

02:02:32.000 Suck upon it! 1.00

02:02:34.000 You don't even have a task manager, bitch. 1.00

02:02:36.000 You can't just shut them all off. 1.00

02:02:38.000 What's that noise? 1.00

02:02:39.000 Yeah, somebody hacked your shit. 1.00

02:02:40.000 They started playing gay music. 1.00

02:02:42.000 What's that? 0.97

02:02:43.000 Bitcoin's face, the cover of Newsweek.

02:02:45.000 So this is a story that Newsweek broke.

02:02:47.000 About that guy.

02:02:48.000 About that guy in Los Angeles.

02:02:52.000 And here's the funny story.

02:02:53.000 So his name is Satoshi Nakamoto.

02:02:56.000 Actually, it's Dorian Percival Satoshi Nakamoto.

02:02:59.000 He doesn't go by Satoshi, he goes by Dorian.

02:03:01.000 And he's not the creator of Bitcoin.

02:03:04.000 There's no doubt in anyone's mind at this point. 0.99

02:03:07.000 Newsweek fucked up. 0.99

02:03:08.000 Big time. 1.00

02:03:09.000 And they got it wrong.

02:03:10.000 And worse, they doxed him, as we say on the internet.

02:03:14.000 They produced pictures of his home address and his car registration plate.

02:03:19.000 And so he got swamped.

02:03:20.000 And not just by journalists. 0.91

02:03:21.000 He got swamped by crazies.

02:03:24.000 By really crazy, dangerous people who suddenly thought he was a rich person and wanted a piece of the action.

02:03:31.000 It was a really horrible thing to do.

02:03:34.000 Very irresponsible journalism.

02:03:35.000 And I'm a very big supporter of free speech.

02:03:38.000 I am as well, but you have to be really responsible about that kind of a thing.

02:03:42.000 Right.

02:03:42.000 If Newsweek does crappy journalism, they have every right to do that, and we have every right to call it crappy journalism.

02:03:49.000 Not just call it crappy journalism. 1.00

02:03:51.000 That guy deserves to sue the fucking shit out of them. 1.00

02:03:53.000 Won't work. 1.00

02:03:54.000 Won't work?

02:03:55.000 Not in this country, not in California.

02:03:57.000 Why not?

02:03:58.000 First Amendment is very powerful.

02:04:01.000 But First Amendment, you outed a guy, you gave his home address out, and you were wrong.

02:04:05.000 I feel like, for sure, he should be able to sue.

02:04:09.000 It won't be effective, especially because California has the anti-slap statutes against strategic lawsuits against public participation.

02:04:18.000 It's really strong protections for the First Amendment, especially for a journalistic organization.

02:04:22.000 You have to show malice.

02:04:23.000 You have to show that he's not in the public interest.

02:04:25.000 You have to show deliberate harm, and he has to show damages.

02:04:29.000 It wouldn't work.

02:04:30.000 Here's the point.

02:04:31.000 Here's the important point.

02:04:32.000 What did the Bitcoin community do with that?

02:04:35.000 They immediately said, how can we help this man?

02:04:39.000 People said, let's buy him model trains.

02:04:40.000 He really likes model trains.

02:04:42.000 Let's send him cash.

02:04:43.000 And some people started saying, let's do a fundraiser.

02:04:45.000 Let's do a fundraiser.

02:04:46.000 Let's do a fundraiser.

02:04:47.000 But who's going to do the fundraiser?

02:04:49.000 Need someone trusted in the community.

02:04:51.000 And I looked at this and I thought, I really don't want to get involved, but...

02:04:54.000 This guy really deserves a break.

02:04:56.000 So I started a fundraiser.

02:04:57.000 Two days after this story broke, I created an address, which started with one Dorian, a Bitcoin address, a vanity address.

02:05:05.000 And I said, let's do a fundraiser for Dorian.

02:05:06.000 And in six hours that morning, we raised 30 Bitcoin.

02:05:11.000 That's $15,000.

02:05:13.000 Yes, and over a period of one month, we raised 50 Bitcoin, 47-some Bitcoin for Dorian.

02:05:22.000 That's incredible.

02:05:23.000 He can move now.

02:05:24.000 And it really started pouring in, like exactly what you saw just now.

02:05:29.000 Well, let's give it out on air.

02:05:30.000 What is it?

02:05:30.000 What's the address?

02:05:31.000 Okay, yeah, let's post it on air.

02:05:34.000 I'm sure he would like some more information.

02:05:37.000 I also got the video pulled up if you wanted to watch.

02:05:39.000 Yeah, let's play the video.

02:05:41.000 Let me just say what we did next, which is we need to make sure we got this money to the right person.

02:05:48.000 And I couldn't do that because a lot of people came to me and they said, I'm Dorian giving the money.

02:05:53.000 No, you're not. 0.99

02:05:54.000 I'm not that stupid. 1.00

02:05:56.000 The only thing I knew is what he looked like. 0.93

02:05:58.000 So I visited him at his home yesterday.

02:06:01.000 And completed my part of the deal and gave him the fundraiser.

02:06:05.000 And I haven't announced this yet.

02:06:06.000 I just did a posting with a video.

02:06:08.000 And he made a little video for us.

02:06:10.000 So I'd like to play that video.

02:06:12.000 It's for the Bitcoin community.

02:06:13.000 Yes!

02:06:13.000 And while you're doing that, I'll pull up his address so you can do some more donations.

02:06:16.000 Beautiful, beautiful.

02:06:17.000 Recording.

02:06:18.000 Okay.

02:06:19.000 And we can do as many as you want.

02:06:20.000 I'll edit it afterwards.

02:06:22.000 It hasn't been edited yet.

02:06:23.000 It's still in process, the editing.

02:06:24.000 Don't worry.

02:06:25.000 It's a bit rough.

02:06:25.000 Good afternoon, Bitcoin community.

02:06:28.000 Thank you very much for your support throughout this ordeal that I'm still fighting.

02:06:35.000 And I would like you to see this magazine, which came out in April.

02:06:47.000 It will be, no, actually, March 14th issue of this year.

02:06:52.000 The Bitcoin face, the mystery man behind the cryptocurrency.

02:06:58.000 And I'm not Satoshi Nakamoto as portrayed as a creator.

02:07:05.000 My name is Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto.

02:07:09.000 And of course, if I was a real creator, I would never use my real name.

02:07:16.000 So from that point of view, I'm sure you guys would know that Satoshi Nakamoto is not me.

02:07:25.000 But Leah thinks so, and Newsweek said so, but it's not true.

02:07:31.000 Okay, I received the Bitcoin account from Andreas, and I'm very thankful for you, all these people in US, Europe,

02:07:48.000 in Asia, in Africa, in South America, who supported me throughout.

02:07:55.000 Thank you very much.

02:07:56.000 I want to hug you.

02:07:59.000 There's 2,000 of you who donated.

02:08:03.000 And I'm very happy.

02:08:05.000 Each one gives me a tick in my heart.

02:08:10.000 Thank you very much.

02:08:13.000 And I would like to further state that I'll be one of the Bitcoin users.

02:08:22.000 Bitcoin community person.

02:08:25.000 Who would contribute, even if it's a little part of this world, for good of humankind, as Andreas and many other of you end over to make the world a little bit better for everybody,

02:08:46.000 especially for poor people.

02:08:50.000 Thank you.

02:08:51.000 And I'll keep my Bitcoin account for many many years and hopefully I can also contribute as you did to me.

02:09:07.000 Thank you.

02:09:08.000 That's so cool.

02:09:09.000 That's so cool.

02:09:11.000 I love his sentiment.

02:09:12.000 I love what he just said.

02:09:14.000 You could tell that wasn't a canned speech.

02:09:18.000 That guy was really touched.

02:09:19.000 Yes, he's a really sweet person.

02:09:23.000 And this wasn't fair what happened to him, but...

02:09:27.000 The Bitcoin community came through with a really great fundraiser that will have a material impact on this person's life.

02:09:35.000 That's so cool.

02:09:36.000 And do up some of the damage that was caused by irresponsible journalism.

02:09:40.000 I can tell you, I spent three hours with him.

02:09:42.000 He's not Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin.

02:09:44.000 No question about it.

02:09:45.000 Just setting up his internet connection was a huge struggle.

02:09:48.000 Is that his Bitcoin address, Brian?

02:09:50.000 Yeah.

02:09:50.000 Can you text me that so I can put it online?

02:09:53.000 Or email me that so I can put it online?

02:09:55.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:09:55.000 I've emailed both...

02:09:56.000 Did you send it to me?

02:09:58.000 Nope.

02:09:58.000 Please send it to me and I'll throw it up on Twitter right now too.

02:10:02.000 With the story explaining to everybody who this gentleman is and what went wrong.

02:10:10.000 That's sad that they decided to go ahead and print that story with no...

02:10:17.000 You know, substantiation.

02:10:18.000 They're still sticking by the story.

02:10:20.000 They're still saying, we got the right person.

02:10:22.000 How can they do that?

02:10:24.000 And it's so obvious to everyone who's got half a brain cell.

02:10:28.000 What does this gentleman do for a living?

02:10:29.000 He's retired.

02:10:30.000 He used to be involved in...

02:10:32.000 I mean, I don't want to intrude in his life any further.

02:10:36.000 He just wants to be left alone.

02:10:37.000 And by the way, he now has access to this fundraiser, so he can use this money.

02:10:43.000 But...

02:10:45.000 Yeah, I mean they basically intruded into his life and violated his privacy and most importantly handled his personal information irresponsibly.

02:10:54.000 In the end, the Bitcoin community came through with generosity and grace and charity.

02:10:58.000 And that's really the big thing about Bitcoin is there's so much charity going on in this space.

02:11:04.000 I think that's beautiful.

02:11:05.000 And it is cool that the Bitcoin community came through.

02:11:07.000 But what drives me crazy is that this long-established journalism outlet would be so irresponsible.

02:11:17.000 Not long-established.

02:11:19.000 This is being purchased...

02:11:21.000 The name has been purchased by new management.

02:11:23.000 It has nothing to do with the previous management.

02:11:26.000 Oh, Newsweek?

02:11:27.000 Really?

02:11:28.000 No, this is completely new people running under the same brand.

02:11:32.000 When did this happen? 0.99

02:11:33.000 And now you know exactly what kind of quality journalism they put out, which is yellow trash. 1.00

02:11:39.000 So they're just trying to make money. 0.95

02:11:41.000 They're just trying to sell...

02:11:44.000 Yeah.

02:11:59.000 They make money either way.

02:12:01.000 They make money, they make clicks either way.

02:12:02.000 The more controversy around it, it doesn't really matter at this point.

02:12:06.000 That's very disappointing.

02:12:07.000 So this is a new thing, people that have bought Newsweek.

02:12:10.000 This is fairly new?

02:12:11.000 Yeah, this came out on the 14th of March.

02:12:14.000 I mean the purchase of Newsweek.

02:12:17.000 Yes, this is their launch edition.

02:12:20.000 This is what they launched with.

02:12:22.000 This is what they launched with. 0.90

02:12:24.000 You can't go backwards on your first issue of a new launch because that would make you like, oh yeah, we suck now. 0.99

02:12:30.000 Right, it's a stinker. 0.98

02:12:31.000 Their first edition was an absolute stinker. 1.00

02:12:34.000 Oh, what a bunch of dickbags. 1.00

02:12:36.000 Dickbags. 1.00

02:12:38.000 It's so gross. 0.99

02:12:39.000 I'll never buy a Newsweek, I'll tell you that. 0.98

02:12:41.000 You can't do that. 0.99

02:12:43.000 You can't push a guy's fucking home address out there and pictures of him. 0.98

02:12:47.000 We'll answer Dorian Yakamoto when his lawyers writes us. 0.99

02:12:52.000 I like that guy. 1.00

02:12:54.000 Fuck you. 1.00

02:12:56.000 You gotta know, man. 1.00

02:12:57.000 You gotta really be sure.

02:12:58.000 You can't just accuse a guy, especially in the midst of all this chaos with the Mt.

02:13:03.000 Gox collapse and...

02:13:04.000 And the very real physical danger that is implied by first saying that someone has a lot of money, which he doesn't, and inviting all of the crazies to visit his address by publishing it.

02:13:17.000 Yeah, they were saying he was worth insane amounts of money, right? 0.91

02:13:20.000 Like $9 million or something fucking crazy like that? 0.87

02:13:23.000 $90 million? 0.93

02:13:24.000 What was it?

02:13:25.000 The real Satoshi could be controlling up to $500 million.

02:13:30.000 What?

02:13:31.000 In Bitcoin at current prices.

02:13:32.000 So he could hold it.

02:13:33.000 You mean he might have that much?

02:13:36.000 A million Bitcoin.

02:13:37.000 He might have himself.

02:13:38.000 He might have a million Bitcoin.

02:13:40.000 Yes.

02:13:41.000 That's the estimate, that Satoshi Nakamoto has a million Bitcoin.

02:13:44.000 Okay, but is he real?

02:13:45.000 Is there a Satoshi Nakamoto?

02:13:47.000 Is there a guy?

02:13:48.000 Let's call him Mr. X. There is a real Mr. X? Well, I'd like to think that...

02:13:55.000 Well, she is real.

02:13:57.000 She. 0.93

02:13:58.000 Okay.

02:13:58.000 Why not?

02:13:59.000 She. 0.93

02:14:00.000 Why not?

02:14:00.000 Who knows?

02:14:01.000 They.

02:14:01.000 She.

02:14:02.000 Yeah, it could be anything.

02:14:03.000 I usually say she's at one of the conferences, so make sure you treat all the ladies right, because one of them might be Satoshi. 1.00

02:14:08.000 Could you imagine?

02:14:09.000 It'd be so hot.

02:14:10.000 Yeah, imagine if Satoshi was just a really smart, Scarlett Johansson-looking chick. 1.00

02:14:14.000 I mean, you know, you can say...

02:14:16.000 It's a pseudonym, so it could be male, female, doesn't matter.

02:14:19.000 Could be several folks, right?

02:14:20.000 And I think the most likely...

02:14:22.000 The explanation is that it was a group of researchers, but it doesn't matter.

02:14:26.000 It really doesn't matter.

02:14:27.000 But if it is that group of researchers, that group of researchers is in control of $500 million worth of Bitcoin.

02:14:33.000 Potentially.

02:14:34.000 Potentially in control because we don't know what's happened with the keys.

02:14:36.000 None of it has been moved.

02:14:38.000 None of it has been touched.

02:14:40.000 So they're all just sitting on it.

02:14:41.000 It's just sitting there.

02:14:43.000 It's just sitting there.

02:14:44.000 Will Tesla be the first car that you could buy with Bitcoin?

02:14:48.000 I don't know.

02:14:49.000 You probably can already.

02:14:50.000 I think some dealers are selling a bunch of cars for Bitcoin.

02:14:54.000 I wouldn't be surprised.

02:14:54.000 Dealers are selling cars for Bitcoin?

02:14:56.000 A bunch of Lamborghinis have been sold for Bitcoin already. 1.00

02:14:59.000 Get the fuck out of here! 0.99

02:15:00.000 Lamborghini? 0.97

02:15:01.000 People are buying apartments and property and planes.

02:15:04.000 Because there's companies that you can trade it in for money.

02:15:07.000 So you can pretty much buy anything with Bitcoins with an exchange.

02:15:10.000 And Virgin Galactic sells seats on their flights to space for Bitcoin.

02:15:17.000 And they've sold seven already.

02:15:20.000 Seven people are going to space with Bitcoin.

02:15:23.000 Allegedly going to space.

02:15:25.000 They might just get launched on the end of a bomb. 0.99

02:15:28.000 That motherfucker's going to have to fly for a long time before daddy goes to space. 1.00

02:15:33.000 I'm so not interested in being an early adopter of the fucking spaceship. 1.00

02:15:38.000 It's not really space either. 0.99

02:15:40.000 According to Neil deGrasse Tyson, he thinks it's kind of a goof.

02:15:42.000 It's high altitude.

02:15:43.000 Yeah, he thinks it's kind of a goof to spend $100,000 to go a little higher than a plane and look down and then drop back down again.

02:15:50.000 Well, you do go into zero-g.

02:15:51.000 Yeah.

02:15:52.000 And so, I think it's interesting because it's that reusable re-entry capability, which is revolutionary in the way they've done it, is very visionary.

02:16:01.000 Well, no doubt about it. 1.00

02:16:04.000 Richard Branson's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

02:16:05.000 No argument there. 1.00

02:16:07.000 I just think... 1.00

02:16:08.000 Until you can go to the moon, you can go fuck yourself. 1.00

02:16:11.000 That's what I think. 1.00

02:16:12.000 Or until you can go zoom around a few, you know, hang out there for a day, you know, sit in a luxury suite on the top of the earth and look down.

02:16:21.000 You can only go there for like a minute and then you gotta come flying back down again, right?

02:16:25.000 Isn't that the idea behind it?

02:16:26.000 Yeah, I would agree.

02:16:27.000 The ultimate goal is to the moon.

02:16:29.000 To the moon, Alice.

02:16:30.000 Have a nice hotel there.

02:16:32.000 A really nice hotel that you can stay at for a weekend.

02:16:36.000 Yes, a moon hotel.

02:16:38.000 Zero-G swimming pools.

02:16:40.000 Zero-G sex.

02:16:41.000 How about that? 1.00

02:16:43.000 Facials in zero-G. Squirt, she's ducks. 1.00

02:16:47.000 Like she's in the Matrix.

02:16:51.000 You would have, well, I guess it would still propel.

02:16:54.000 It would probably go on forever. 0.99

02:16:55.000 If you could stick your dick outside of the spaceship and just shoot one into space, it would just take off forever. 1.00

02:17:01.000 But it would be frozen instantly. 1.00

02:17:03.000 Girl's on a rag. 1.00

02:17:04.000 Instead of being on your bed, it's floating around your whole entire room.

02:17:07.000 Could be. 0.66

02:17:07.000 That's disgusting. 0.66

02:17:08.000 Yeah, what if she squirts? 1.00

02:17:09.000 Ugh.

02:17:10.000 Yeah. 0.94

02:17:11.000 Yeah, you don't want to have sex with zero G. How do we get to this conversation? 1.00

02:17:14.000 This is the Joe Rogan Experience podcast.

02:17:16.000 That's how we do things over here.

02:17:17.000 I'm sorry.

02:17:18.000 I mean, we're going to help you promote Bitcoin, but we're not going to change the format.

02:17:22.000 No, no.

02:17:23.000 I'm loving it.

02:17:24.000 No worries.

02:17:27.000 So Lamborghini doesn't take it?

02:17:29.000 It's like a third-party thing?

02:17:30.000 Is that how you do it?

02:17:31.000 It's dealers who are selling.

02:17:32.000 Car dealers.

02:17:32.000 So there are dealers that are taking that crazy risk.

02:17:35.000 Accepting Bitcoin.

02:17:36.000 Well, yeah.

02:17:36.000 How crazy is the risk?

02:17:37.000 Listen, you get a lot of publicity and marketing, and then you take the Bitcoin and you convert it the same day to US dollars, so you don't get any exchange rate risk.

02:17:46.000 And what's the difference?

02:17:48.000 Nothing.

02:17:48.000 That's a good point.

02:17:49.000 That's a very good point.

02:17:50.000 That's what a lot of merchants are doing. 0.61

02:17:52.000 I kind of see it, but man, I would put a tap on it.

02:17:56.000 If it was my dealership, I'd say we're allowed to sell one a month with Bitcoin.

02:18:01.000 Everything else has to be with good old American dollars backed by blood and eagles.

02:18:08.000 You can't just bank the whole thing on these weird digital currencies.

02:18:14.000 I bet I'm going to be sending Justin Renn a thousand bucks by the end of this day.

02:18:18.000 Yeah, it might be a lot more than that.

02:18:20.000 I don't know.

02:18:21.000 I'm going to have to decipher it.

02:18:22.000 I'm going to need your help.

02:18:23.000 After this podcast is over, we're going to have to go over how much I need to write a check for.

02:18:28.000 I'm going to leave the money in there, though.

02:18:30.000 So if you keep sending it to him, he'll keep getting money.

02:18:34.000 What else has happened in the last two and a half months besides these really fantastic innovations that you're excited about?

02:18:43.000 Well, there's the whole environment which is weird in terms of media and regulation.

02:18:48.000 It's been good news, bad news, good news, bad news, bit of a roller coaster.

02:18:54.000 China's banning it, not banning it.

02:18:55.000 Russia's banning it, not banning it.

02:18:57.000 Vietnam's banning it, not banning it.

02:18:59.000 And this is really funny because, of course, the countries in which these iron fist bans are happening are the countries where the rule of law is least respected.

02:19:08.000 It's so true, right?

02:19:10.000 Putin banned it.

02:19:11.000 Well, you know what?

02:19:12.000 Hard dollars were banned in the 80s.

02:19:15.000 In Russia, you were not allowed to have foreign currency, hard currency, throughout the Soviet Union.

02:19:22.000 It was banned.

02:19:23.000 Very, very, very seriously banned.

02:19:25.000 Guess who started stuffing their suitcases with hard dollars first?

02:19:28.000 The Politburo.

02:19:29.000 Of course.

02:19:30.000 And then the army generals, and then the cops, and then all of the people who in those countries are above the law.

02:19:35.000 And then the people who are below the law then bribe the people who are above the law, in dollars, of course, to also hold dollars, and the whole thing becomes a mockery.

02:19:45.000 Putin is like a gigantic Russian version of John Gotti.

02:19:49.000 You know?

02:19:50.000 He really is.

02:19:51.000 Like, you remember how Gotti was, like, so flamboyant about the fact that he was the head of the mob?

02:19:56.000 Like, there was...

02:19:57.000 The heads of the mob before Gotti were, like, real secretive.

02:20:00.000 There was that guy, Vincent de Chin Gagianti, or however you say his name, who would walk around the neighborhood pretending to be crazy.

02:20:06.000 He'd wear a bathrobe and slippers and...

02:20:08.000 And they wouldn't even, like, say his name because he told everybody that everything was being tapped all the time.

02:20:14.000 So don't ever say my name.

02:20:16.000 When you're talking about me, point to your chin.

02:20:18.000 So people would just, like, go, and, you know, he's not going to take that.

02:20:22.000 He's going to, you know, he's going to want to do something for our friend.

02:20:25.000 So, you know...

02:20:27.000 That's a good idea.

02:20:28.000 They'd point to their chin because his name was Vincent the Chin Giganti or Giganti or whatever the hell it was. 0.99

02:20:33.000 But then Gotti came along and was wearing fucking... 0.98

02:20:37.000 $10,000 suits and, you know, was an obvious mobster and had obvious mobsters with him and there was public hits and all this crazy shit and everybody loved him because he was the face of the mob. 0.99

02:20:49.000 This Putin guy is sort of like that in a way but on a crazier scale because he's running a whole country. 0.92

02:20:55.000 I mean he's essentially just grabbed the whole country.

02:20:59.000 And not just that.

02:21:01.000 Here's the little secret.

02:21:03.000 I think the thing that most people miss is the elephant in the room.

02:21:08.000 And that's Gazprom.

02:21:10.000 That's what?

02:21:11.000 Natural gas.

02:21:12.000 Natural gas.

02:21:13.000 Gas problem.

02:21:14.000 So basically they've nationalized the gas industry.

02:21:16.000 The gas industry then supplies natural gas, which is one of the ways that we've avoided the impact of peak oil and energy constriction that is killing worldwide economies right now because oil has gotten vastly expensive.

02:21:31.000 But gas got cheaper because of fracking and other things.

02:21:34.000 And gas problem produces most of the gas in the world, so much so that That they supply all of Europe with natural gas.

02:21:40.000 And they supply them through pipelines that go through which country?

02:21:43.000 Afghanistan.

02:21:44.000 The Ukraine.

02:21:45.000 And Afghanistan.

02:21:46.000 And various other places.

02:21:48.000 But the line of pipelines of gas are the hot spots of war and civil war and occupation all across Eastern Europe.

02:22:00.000 Right now, there's this huge power play going on around the Ukraine, and a lot of that has to do with routes of gas.

02:22:10.000 It's a massive geopolitical power play between world powers.

02:22:17.000 Putin can basically say, We just doubled the price of gas in the Ukraine, which is exactly what they did.

02:22:24.000 I think they quadrupled it, in fact, which plunged the country into a recession.

02:22:29.000 And then they said to Europe, you know, you don't threaten us with sanctions.

02:22:31.000 We're going to turn off your gas.

02:22:33.000 And if you do, all of you are going into recession because that's the only form of cheap energy you have.

02:22:38.000 We've got to go into World War III. It seems like some weird shit is happening. 0.98

02:22:43.000 Japan is upping its military now. 0.99

02:22:46.000 Its navy is getting larger and larger by the day.

02:22:48.000 And they're changing their whole policy as far as how they deal with other countries because China is encroaching on a lot of these islands that Japan has been controlling. 0.99

02:22:58.000 And it seems to me like more and more every day that powers are moving into position to dominate portions of the world and it just seems like some shit is about to happen.

02:23:09.000 The era of cheap energy is over and the world has to reshuffle to accept that fact. 0.96

02:23:16.000 Peak oil changes everything.

02:23:19.000 You can't sustain the same consumerist behavior in developed countries and that, together with climate change, it's a combination that creates upheaval all around the world.

02:23:32.000 At the same time, you have the world's worst currency crisis in three generations.

02:23:38.000 We are currently living through the most significant currency crisis, with dozens of countries suffering from hyperinflation, with their currencies about to collapse, Europe and the euro hanging from a thread, the British sterling hanging from a thread, and the US dollar going crazy with printing.

02:23:55.000 Into that environment, You now have Bitcoin.

02:23:59.000 It's a really interesting time to live in because there's so much change going on.

02:24:03.000 Is it an escort service that accepts Bitcoin?

02:24:06.000 Yes.

02:24:06.000 Brian is very excited now.

02:24:09.000 Did you put up your Bitcoin address?

02:24:10.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:24:11.000 You should say that I'll donate it all to Justin Wren, you'll donate it all to hookers. 1.00

02:24:19.000 Corvette. 0.99

02:24:20.000 To all, yeah, Lexus.

02:24:22.000 Lexus Corvette.

02:24:23.000 So I'm glad we didn't get very far with a conversation about empowering the poor and discussions about the good Bitcoin can do before Brian dumped us into an escort site.

02:24:33.000 That's all well and good.

02:24:34.000 It's nice to empower the poor, but guess who else is poor? 0.77

02:24:38.000 Hookers! 1.00

02:24:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:24:39.000 Yeah.

02:24:41.000 No, I see what you're saying.

02:24:42.000 I think that's certainly the best way to do it.

02:24:45.000 One thing that you can say about that particular case is that women in those professions are exploited by the men who... 0.98

02:24:54.000 Take that down, Brian.

02:24:55.000 You can't do that.

02:24:56.000 You can't just sneakily post that. 1.00

02:24:58.000 Put it on your Twitter, you fuck. 1.00

02:25:00.000 Put it on your Twitter and I'll retweet it. 1.00

02:25:06.000 Yeah, you're right.

02:25:07.000 They're exploited.

02:25:07.000 All the money flows to the men who control and exploit them, right?

02:25:13.000 And so Bitcoin is being used already in many cases for women to be able to keep control of their money so it can't be stolen by pimps and exploited boyfriends. 0.98

02:25:27.000 And hustlers and all of the other criminals who are around them who take advantage of these women. 0.99

02:25:31.000 So actually it is quite an empowering technology even in that particular occupation or related occupations.

02:25:38.000 I was having this conversation on Twitter and people were teasing me so I did a A satirical shot.

02:25:46.000 I said, look, I'm going to start the same business. 0.99

02:25:48.000 I'm going to post a half-naked shot of me and I'm going to make people pay me to stop because I'm a pasty middle-aged male and nobody wants to see that shit. 0.99

02:26:00.000 And I'm going to donate all of the money that I raise. 1.00

02:26:02.000 And now it went viral on Twitter.

02:26:04.000 It's me doing a Miley Cyrus impersonation of licking a hammer.

02:26:08.000 It's just like from here on Topless.

02:26:10.000 It's not right.

02:26:12.000 That's a smart move.

02:26:14.000 But I raised and I'm pretty proud of that photo because I ridiculed and exploited myself and raised $600 which I donated to the Rape and Incest National Network which is a network that helps exploited women.

02:26:26.000 I extract themselves from the abusive environments and gives them shelter.

02:26:30.000 Essentially, it's like an underground railroad to get them away from people who are exploiting them or abusing them badly.

02:26:38.000 That's awesome.

02:26:39.000 You know, one of the things that we've talked about on this podcast before and I think applies here is that there's a certain morality to a lot of these big tech companies and to tech in general that I don't think exists in a lot of other industries.

02:26:53.000 And that there's a lot of companies that are coming up now, tech companies, that are founded by very intelligent, very educated people who also have pretty strong ethics.

02:27:02.000 And I think that's rare for businesses to have a fairly established trend.

02:27:09.000 Of ethical consideration involved in their business practices.

02:27:12.000 And one of the reasons why, I think, is because no one understands transparency more than people that are really into the internet.

02:27:18.000 No one understands the implications or the ramifications, rather, of your actions, whether positive or negative, more than people that are on the internet.

02:27:28.000 What are you looking up at?

02:27:29.000 I'm waiting for Redband to pull up some embarrassing photos any moment.

02:27:32.000 Any moment.

02:27:33.000 Do you have that?

02:27:34.000 Embarrassing photos?

02:27:35.000 Well, the picture that he was talking about.

02:27:37.000 Oh, no, no.

02:27:38.000 Don't, don't.

02:27:39.000 Oh, thank you.

02:27:40.000 See?

02:27:41.000 He's being really nice to me today.

02:27:43.000 Thank you.

02:27:43.000 He's a sweetie.

02:27:43.000 He's nice to everybody.

02:27:44.000 He's always nice.

02:27:45.000 Believe me.

02:27:46.000 I did read, though.

02:27:47.000 I was doing some research about the IP thing, because that's the only thing I did have.

02:27:51.000 But there is some people saying that you could find the IP if you were devoted to it.

02:27:55.000 Meaning, if I really wanted to find out what your IP address is using the Bitcoin currency, I could just probably figure it out if I was really detailed about it.

02:28:03.000 No, you can't.

02:28:05.000 I think that's entirely wrong.

02:28:07.000 Because if you were doing transactions, those transactions would be communicated across the peer-to-peer network, kind of like BitTorrent.

02:28:17.000 And they spread through that peer-to-peer network in such a way that you can't even trace whether the transaction happened.

02:28:22.000 But in your particular case, you're not even doing any transactions.

02:28:26.000 There is no way to associate a Bitcoin address to an IP address unless you're monitoring that person's specific communication.

02:28:34.000 For example, if someone's monitoring your laptop, they can figure out you're connected to that IP address.

02:28:39.000 But guess what?

02:28:40.000 If they're monitoring your laptop, they already know that.

02:28:42.000 It's not so hard.

02:28:44.000 But just monitoring the Bitcoin network, you cannot associate Bitcoin addresses to IP addresses.

02:28:50.000 I'm putting up Dorian Nakamoto's.

02:28:52.000 I retweeted yours, Brian.

02:28:54.000 And contribute to Dorian Nakamoto.

02:29:00.000 How do you spell Dorian?

02:29:02.000 Dorian?

02:29:02.000 D-O-R-I-A-N. Do you know who Dan Kaminsky is?

02:29:09.000 Chief scientist for DKH. He wrote in 2011 that you could do that.

02:29:19.000 And that's what I was basing my findings on.

02:29:24.000 He said that Unless you're very careful in the way you use Bitcoin and you have the technical know-how to use it with other anonymizing technologies like Tor or I2P, you should assume that a persistent, motivated attacker will be able to associate your IP address with your Bitcoin transactions.

02:29:43.000 It's Dan's Black Hat 2011 talk.

02:29:48.000 Yeah, and they're not associating the IP address, the Bitcoin address, because it's in the network.

02:29:54.000 What we're talking about there is a determined attacker who's conducting surveillance of the entire network and has the resources to track down what's happening.

02:30:05.000 People say that Bitcoin is anonymous, but in fact it's not.

02:30:08.000 It's pseudonymous and loosely pseudonymous.

02:30:10.000 That means that if you conduct activities with Bitcoin that associate your Bitcoin address to other things, like for example, you use it to buy something and then that something gets shipped to your home, well now you tied that Bitcoin address to your physical address.

02:30:29.000 Or I have a donation address that I publish.

02:30:33.000 Everybody knows that's my address.

02:30:35.000 Now if I take money from that Bitcoin address, which is my donation address, and I move it into my wallet that I use to spend on other things, now everyone can track that step by step and know, well, that's my wallet.

02:30:46.000 And then track everything that goes out of that wallet.

02:30:49.000 So I have to take some basic privacy precautions to protect against that.

02:30:56.000 It's kind of like an account number, I guess, like at a bank, like you said.

02:30:59.000 Now, is there technology or is there hackers that can take knowing your account number and recreate it in a program that makes it seem like you are that person and transfer money out of that account?

02:31:13.000 No, because the address itself is essentially one part of an encryption key, and the other part of the pair of keys, the private key, is the thing you have on your phone wallet.

02:31:26.000 That's the secret.

02:31:28.000 That's the thing that allows you to sign transactions.

02:31:30.000 And the whole basis of cryptography, of encryption systems, is that you can't go from the public address to the private secret.

02:31:39.000 You can't go backwards.

02:31:40.000 You can go from the private secret, you can recreate the public address, but you can't go backwards.

02:31:44.000 That is the whole basis.

02:31:46.000 That technology is the same technology that's used to secure bank networks.

02:31:50.000 It's the same technology that's used to secure tomahawk missiles.

02:31:53.000 It's the same technology that's used to secure everything.

02:31:59.000 You can rest assured that the cryptography at the core of Bitcoin is solid because it's used across all of the other industries.

02:32:08.000 So you'd be better off like, hey, you want to charge my phone on your laptop, and then you just download their phone and then re-upload it on your phone, and then you have their wallet.

02:32:16.000 You should provide criminal masterminds with a blueprint.

02:32:21.000 So that's why you have a password on that application, so that if you steal the data of that application, it's encrypted, and you can't see the keys that are underneath.

02:32:29.000 That's what the PIN number and password do.

02:32:31.000 And I have a secondary password that also prevents from spending, specifically for spending.

02:32:37.000 All right, man.

02:32:37.000 You want to do this again in three months?

02:32:39.000 I'd love to.

02:32:39.000 It's about three years in Bitcoin time.

02:32:41.000 A lot of things will change.

02:32:43.000 I really appreciate every opportunity.

02:32:46.000 I appreciate it as well.

02:32:47.000 I mean, you're very, very informative.

02:32:48.000 We would never be this educated about this stuff if it wasn't for you.

02:32:52.000 And I think you do a huge service to not just the tech community with this, but just the general population, giving them an understanding of what this is all about.

02:32:59.000 There's so much misinformation and confusion about it. 0.97

02:33:03.000 I mean, we had, just Brian and I, two fucking dunces sitting there staring at each other trying to figure out what it was before you came along. 0.94

02:33:09.000 So it helps us tremendously. 0.98

02:33:11.000 And I think what you're doing is it's brave.

02:33:15.000 I mean, you're getting paid through Bitcoin.

02:33:17.000 It's noble.

02:33:19.000 You're using it in great ways.

02:33:21.000 I love what you did for Nakamoto.

02:33:23.000 I just posted his Bitcoin address along with an article explaining what went wrong and how he's not that guy. 0.97

02:33:31.000 I just think it's cool as fuck, man. 0.78

02:33:33.000 I'm honored that you're a part of this. 0.91

02:33:35.000 Thank you so much.

02:33:37.000 What I'm doing is I'm just expressing my enthusiasm for this space.

02:33:40.000 Let me tell you a couple of quick stories about why this was awesome.

02:33:45.000 After the first Joe Rogan experience, suddenly I had people everywhere coming and telling me That they got into Bitcoin because of that first show, because they finally were able to understand it.

02:33:56.000 I'll give you two stories.

02:33:57.000 A month ago, I was in a Houston airport.

02:33:59.000 I was sitting down having lunch.

02:34:01.000 I was in transit between flights.

02:34:03.000 I'm sitting there, and someone sees my watch, and they go, is that the new Pebble?

02:34:06.000 I'm like, yeah, it is.

02:34:07.000 You can write applications.

02:34:08.000 What kind of applications?

02:34:10.000 I said, well, the application I have on here, which is pretty cool, is I can check Bitcoin addresses.

02:34:14.000 I'm like, Bitcoin addresses?

02:34:15.000 Oh, that's pretty cool, yeah.

02:34:17.000 I said, you heard of Bitcoin?

02:34:17.000 Yeah, I've heard of Bitcoin.

02:34:19.000 Hey, hang on a second.

02:34:20.000 Is your name Andreas Antonopoulos?

02:34:22.000 I'm like, yeah.

02:34:24.000 Were you on the Joe Rogan?

02:34:25.000 You're the reason I bought Bitcoin!

02:34:27.000 I got involved in Bitcoin after seeing that episode.

02:34:30.000 And I was just blown away.

02:34:32.000 I mean, this is like I'm sitting down for lunch in a transit area in a restaurant.

02:34:35.000 I'm not used to being recognized that way.

02:34:38.000 So the better part.

02:34:40.000 Monday.

02:34:42.000 Yesterday, I land at LAX. I go to Enterprise, rent a car to pick up my car.

02:34:46.000 I get into my car.

02:34:47.000 I drive to the exit.

02:34:48.000 I hand my driver's license and rental ticket to the booth guy at the exit.

02:34:53.000 And he takes a look at it and he goes, were you on the Joe Rogan experience?

02:34:58.000 Like, yeah, you're the reason I bought Bitcoin.

02:35:01.000 You're the reason I got into Bitcoin and I follow you on Twitter and the Joe Rogan experience got me into Bitcoin.

02:35:06.000 This story has repeated a dozen times for me and not just from 15,000 people on Twitter who started following me after the first show.

02:35:15.000 And who got excited about Bitcoin.

02:35:18.000 But complete strangers in the street and things like that.

02:35:21.000 And yes, I get my share of crazies and stalkers and all of that.

02:35:24.000 And it doesn't matter because the vast majority is such a positive experience.

02:35:28.000 And what everyone says is that you asked really great questions.

02:35:32.000 You asked the everyman questions.

02:35:34.000 The question everybody wanted to ask.

02:35:36.000 The simple questions to try to understand and grasp this topic.

02:35:41.000 And for me that was a wonderful opportunity.

02:35:44.000 So thank you.

02:35:45.000 Thank you.

02:35:45.000 Listen, the beautiful thing about having a podcast is nobody brings anything on the show that I'm not interested in.

02:35:51.000 It's not like a network demands that I interview this guy who's on this sitcom or something like that.

02:35:56.000 If I'm talking to somebody, it's because the subject is fascinating and it's actually something I'm truly interested in.

02:36:03.000 And that's...

02:36:04.000 Not having all those sort of like ladders and steps that you have to climb to put content out is really what it's all about in a way that sort of mirrors what Bitcoin is.

02:36:14.000 It's cutting out all the steps that are unnecessary between human beings interacting with each other, whether it's exchanging money or exchanging ideas and information.

02:36:24.000 It's essentially, it's a lot of it is along the same trend and it's all along the same lines.

02:36:28.000 Yeah, let's get you selling your products on Onnit and the other sites with Bitcoin.

02:36:33.000 We'll make it happen.

02:36:34.000 Hireprimate.com. 0.99

02:36:35.000 Yeah, oh, by the way, Hireprimate.com has new shit in. 0.98

02:36:39.000 Hireprimate, we just restocked it. 0.93

02:36:40.000 We have a bunch of new t-shirts in now, and we have JRE t-shirts that are the logo that's on my...

02:36:48.000 On my Twitter page.

02:36:49.000 That's the newest one, both in color and in black.

02:36:52.000 All right. 1.00

02:36:53.000 We're out of here, you fucks. 0.99

02:36:54.000 We'll see you guys next week. 0.99

02:36:57.000 Follow Andreas Antonopoulos on Twitter, please.

02:37:01.000 And my podcast, LetstalkBitcoin.com.

02:37:04.000 Yes.

02:37:04.000 And is that on iTunes as well?

02:37:06.000 Yes, it is.

02:37:07.000 LetstalkBitcoin.

02:37:08.000 How many episodes do you have out there?

02:37:09.000 A hundred.

02:37:09.000 We just celebrated a hundred episodes in April.

02:37:12.000 Jesus, Louisa, a hundred episodes of Bitcoin.

02:37:15.000 You're like, I can't get enough Bitcoin information. 1.00

02:37:17.000 Yes, you can, motherfucker. 1.00

02:37:19.000 Yes, you can. 1.00

02:37:20.000 You can get a hundred goddamn podcasts on it. 0.99

02:37:23.000 A-A-N-T-O-N-O-P. That is his Twitter handle. 0.99

02:37:29.000 A-A-N-T-O-N-O-P. Thank you, sir. 1.00

02:37:33.000 Thank you.

02:37:34.000 We're honored to have you on.

02:37:35.000 Every three months, right?

02:37:35.000 Yep.

02:37:36.000 Three months.

02:37:36.000 Three years in Bitcoin.

02:37:38.000 All right.

02:37:38.000 And we will see you guys next week.

02:37:42.000 Next week.

02:37:43.000 I've got a lot of great guests.

02:37:45.000 I've got Steve Maxwell, world famous strength and conditioning coach.

02:37:49.000 He's on Monday.

02:37:50.000 Dave Attell, Greg Fitzsimmons.

02:37:52.000 And then next Friday night, I'm at the Lobero Theater in Santa Barbara with Mad Flavor, a.k.a.

02:37:58.000 Joey Coco Diaz.

02:37:59.000 Almost sold out.

02:38:00.000 So don't be slipping, Santa Barbara.

02:38:04.000 Okay.

02:38:05.000 Thanks to our sponsors.

02:38:07.000 Thanks to...

02:38:09.000 Today was LegalZoom, right?

02:38:11.000 LegalZoom.com.

02:38:12.000 Did you have something to say?

02:38:14.000 I was just going to say, this Friday I'll be in Tucson with Sam Tripoli, and then Saturday in Phoenix with Sam Tripoli.

02:38:19.000 Oh, beautiful.

02:38:20.000 Deathsquad.tv for ticks.

02:38:21.000 Oh, beautiful.

02:38:22.000 What are you guys doing?

02:38:22.000 Are you doing clubs out there?

02:38:25.000 Yeah, we're doing Hotel Congress in Tucson, which is this really badass hotel that's haunted and stuff like that.

02:38:30.000 I've never been to Tucson.

02:38:31.000 I heard it's badass.

02:38:33.000 Doesn't Doug live near there?

02:38:34.000 Yes, close.

02:38:35.000 You could drive there.

02:38:36.000 Not that close, but like an hour and a half or something like that.

02:38:39.000 That's cool.

02:38:39.000 Is Tucson, is that place, how many is that seat?

02:38:43.000 I want to say it's like $150, $200.

02:38:45.000 Cool.

02:38:46.000 And they do shows that are on the regular?

02:38:47.000 Yeah.

02:38:48.000 Dope.

02:38:49.000 Alright.

02:38:50.000 Dollar Shave.

02:38:51.000 DollarShaveClub.com.

02:38:52.000 Go to DollarShaveClub.com forward slash Rogan.

02:38:55.000 That's DollarShave.com.

02:38:58.000 DollarShaveClub.com forward slash Rogan.

02:39:01.000 Thanks also to LegalZoom.

02:39:03.000 Go to LegalZoom.com and enter the code word Rogan in the referral box at checkout for more savings.

02:39:13.000 Excuse me.

02:39:14.000 Thanks to Onnit.com.

02:39:15.000 O-N-N-I-T. Go to Onnit. 1.00

02:39:17.000 Use the code word ROGAN. Save 10% off any and all supplements.

02:39:23.000 Okay.

02:39:24.000 We'll see you guys next week.

02:39:25.000 Much love.

02:39:26.000 Big kiss.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 22, 2014

Joe Rogan Experience #490 - Andreas Antonopoulos

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript