The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #491 - Steve Maxwell

00:00:02.000 Hey, everybody there.

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00:02:27.000 Free trial and 10% off.

00:02:29.000 Squarespace.com and enter the code word JOE. We're also brought to you by Onnit.com.

00:02:34.000 Onnit is a human optimization website. 0.99

00:02:37.000 What we sell is a bunch of shit that makes your body and your life work better. 0.98

00:02:42.000 Things like strength and conditioning equipment, like kettlebells and battle ropes, all shit that Steve Maxwell knows a lot about. 0.99

00:02:50.000 We sell ab wheels, medicine balls, things along those lines.

00:02:54.000 We also sell healthy snack foods like hemp force protein bars, very nutritious and healthy hemp protein powder with very, very little sugar.

00:03:04.000 With the hemp force protein powder that we sell, we buy the finest protein powder from Canada.

00:03:09.000 Unfortunately, hopefully we're going to be able to buy it in America now because they've changed a lot of the laws now, at least statewide, allowing people to grow hemp.

00:03:18.000 A lot of misconceptions when it comes to hemp.

00:03:20.000 The big one is that somehow or another you could test positive for marijuana at your job.

00:03:26.000 If you have a job that tests you, you don't have to worry about it.

00:03:28.000 Hemp has zero THC in it.

00:03:30.000 You're not going to test positive for it.

00:03:32.000 But I should let you know that if you eat poppy seed bagels, you can test positive for heroin.

00:03:38.000 I know that sounds crazy, but it is true. 1.00

00:03:40.000 It's happened to someone I know.

00:03:42.000 You have to be careful about that.

00:03:43.000 In fact, a guy was imprisoned in Dubai because they had one of those weird drug test things they do at their airports.

00:03:51.000 They have some sophisticated drug sniffing mechanisms.

00:03:54.000 And this guy had eaten a poppy seed bagel at Heathrow Airport.

00:03:57.000 And he had poppy seeds on his body.

00:03:59.000 So he tested positive for heroin with their sniffing machine. 1.00

00:04:02.000 They locked this fucking guy in jail. 1.00

00:04:04.000 And they had to figure out that, oh, you just ate a bagel. 1.00

00:04:07.000 Okay, and they let him go.

00:04:08.000 Woo! 1.00

00:04:09.000 Anyway, hemp force, you don't have to worry about any of that shit. 0.99

00:04:12.000 And very high in protein, very nutritious, and very, very low in sugar. 0.97

00:04:16.000 In fact, one portion of hemp force protein powder only has one gram of naturally occurring sugar.

00:04:23.000 And I think when we talk to Steve Maxwell, he'll agree with me that sugar is super bad for you. 1.00

00:04:27.000 A lot of people like that shit. 1.00

00:04:29.000 You got to get off it, folks. 1.00

00:04:30.000 Sugar is probably one of the worst things for your body. 0.99

00:04:33.000 Fucking terrible. 1.00

00:04:34.000 Unfortunately, terrible and delicious. 1.00

00:04:36.000 Much like life. 1.00

00:04:38.000 There's a yin and a yang to this shit. 0.97

00:04:41.000 Anyway, all the stuff that we sell at Onnit.com is explained in detail on the site. 0.98

00:04:46.000 We try to sell the very best stuff that we can buy, whether it's organic coconut oil.

00:04:51.000 We sell this new thing called Warrior Bar, which is all buffalo meat and cranberries with no preservatives, no antibiotics, no nitrates, no added hormones.

00:05:01.000 Very, very healthy, and it's got 14 grams of protein per bar And only 4 grams of fat.

00:05:08.000 And healthy fat.

00:05:09.000 No MSG. No soy.

00:05:10.000 No lactose.

00:05:11.000 Gluten-free.

00:05:12.000 No nitrates.

00:05:13.000 No antibiotics or added hormones.

00:05:15.000 Very, very good for you.

00:05:16.000 Very healthy.

00:05:17.000 And all the stuff we sell at Onnit is all stuff that I use.

00:05:20.000 And go there.

00:05:22.000 Enjoy.

00:05:22.000 And use the code word ROGAN to save 10% off any and all supplements.

00:05:27.000 Alright. 0.99

00:05:27.000 Why fuck around? 0.99

00:05:28.000 Steve Maxwell's here. 1.00

00:05:29.000 Cue the music, Jamie.

00:05:32.000 Joe Rogan Podcast.

00:05:33.000 Check it out.

00:05:34.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:05:36.000 Train by day.

00:05:37.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night.

00:05:39.000 All day.

00:05:42.000 Good to see you, my friend.

00:05:44.000 Hey, great to see you again, too.

00:05:45.000 Steve Maxwell is, for folks who don't know, a long-time Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt, long-time strength and conditioning guru, and my friend.

00:05:55.000 And I found out about you from DVDs, actually.

00:05:58.000 I think someone from the underground posted up a link to one of your DVDs a while back.

00:06:04.000 And I got one of your Kettlebell DVDs, which I thought was very informative and very interesting.

00:06:09.000 And then I started reading about your lifestyle and reading about your philosophies on training and reading some of your blog entries.

00:06:19.000 You're an unusual dude when it comes to the strength and conditioning and fitness and just the wellness advocates.

00:06:27.000 You usually have a bunch of different schools of thought when it comes to those.

00:06:31.000 You've got meatheads who are just into lifting the heaviest weights that they can and getting as big as they can. 0.97

00:06:37.000 But you're sort of a weirdo, man. 0.93

00:06:40.000 You're traveling the world. 0.94

00:06:41.000 You're doing seminars all over the place.

00:06:43.000 You're eating very little food.

00:06:49.000 I've got a lot of people interested in how you're living your life these days.

00:06:53.000 Well, I've definitely gone through an evolution.

00:06:56.000 You know, I've been at this for 51 years.

00:06:58.000 I started when I was like 10 years old.

00:06:59.000 That's when you started working out?

00:07:01.000 Yeah, when I was 10. My father got me a York barbell set.

00:07:06.000 York was just down the road from Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

00:07:08.000 And I was one of those kids that was sort of weak and scrawny and basically getting picked on by some of the neighborhood kids.

00:07:15.000 And my father kind of saw where this was going.

00:07:19.000 Got me the barbell set and literally made me go out for wrestling.

00:07:24.000 Really?

00:07:25.000 Made me.

00:07:25.000 I went kicking and screaming.

00:07:28.000 And then I found out I was actually pretty good at it.

00:07:30.000 Well, you must be happy.

00:07:32.000 You must have thanked him at some point in time.

00:07:33.000 Oh, for sure.

00:07:34.000 Absolutely.

00:07:35.000 I mean, he had tried to teach both me and my brother boxing and so forth in the backyard.

00:07:39.000 And I learned early.

00:07:41.000 I didn't like to get hit.

00:07:42.000 But I sure like to clinch and take guys down, man.

00:07:45.000 Well, that's a sign of intelligence.

00:07:47.000 It was just a natural evolution.

00:07:49.000 And then I discovered, hey man, I really got this thing for wrestling.

00:07:52.000 And all my training was geared to making me a better athlete as opposed to the body beautiful or even powerlifting or Olympic lifting.

00:08:01.000 I was always interested in improved performance for my chosen activity.

00:08:06.000 And back then, that wasn't that common, right?

00:08:09.000 I mean, back then, everybody was trying to be like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

00:08:12.000 Everybody was trying to lift weights and get huge.

00:08:14.000 Well, this was in the 60s.

00:08:16.000 And at that point, bodybuilding was still in its infancy.

00:08:21.000 I mean, up to the 1950s, bodybuilding was actually a really honorable profession.

00:08:28.000 It was pure.

00:08:30.000 There was no anabolic steroids.

00:08:32.000 I mean, they didn't even have so much as a Flintstone vitamin.

00:08:34.000 I mean, there was no creatine or protein powders and such.

00:08:37.000 What was the diet like back then when guys would, like, try to get big?

00:08:41.000 Like, did they have any idea of what the correct foods to eat?

00:08:45.000 Like, what did...

00:08:46.000 Well, yeah, for sure.

00:08:47.000 A lot more emphasis was placed on health.

00:08:49.000 Health was always first with a lot of these old bodybuilders, and they called themselves physical culturists.

00:08:55.000 Right.

00:08:56.000 Jack LaLanne was one of those guys.

00:08:57.000 Well, I first heard that term from you, actually.

00:09:00.000 I believe it was reading your blog or reading a conversation that you had with someone, but the term physical culture, like being involved in physical culture.

00:09:10.000 I like that term.

00:09:11.000 It's a good term. 0.89

00:09:12.000 It's a throwback to ancient Greece.

00:09:14.000 I mean, if you think about it, the standard for male beauty and male excellence for 2,000 years was the ancient Greek statue.

00:09:21.000 The Greek god.

00:09:22.000 The Greek god.

00:09:22.000 And, you know, if you look at the sculpture from that time, it's just magnificent.

00:09:27.000 Something got very skewed right towards the end of the 60s, early 70s.

00:09:32.000 And a lot of it was the anabolic steroids.

00:09:34.000 And, you know, guys, let's face it.

00:09:37.000 It's the human condition, right?

00:09:39.000 If...

00:09:40.000 People will do things because they can do things.

00:09:42.000 And people just want to get as big and freaky as possible.

00:09:46.000 It's a bit of dysmorphia too, isn't it?

00:09:48.000 Isn't it sort of like an anorexic that doesn't realize they're so skinny looking or a woman who has enormous fake breasts and still doesn't think they're big enough? 1.00

00:09:57.000 There's some sort of a weird psychological condition where people can't see themselves.

00:10:02.000 There's definitely a disconnect in there somewhere where they have a very skewed body image of themselves.

00:10:09.000 But yeah, back in the 60s, it was pretty innocent still.

00:10:12.000 I mean, steroids existed, but it wasn't prevalent.

00:10:16.000 Most of the information, if you're looking for really good solid information about sports training, you have to go before 1950. Really?

00:10:25.000 Yeah.

00:10:26.000 Why is that?

00:10:27.000 Well, I mean, that's when steroids began to make inroads into Olympic weightlifting, and of course, that's when the Eastern Bloc really started getting into this stuff. 0.95

00:10:36.000 Of course, it's not like the U.S. didn't have plenty of drugs, too.

00:10:40.000 Sure.

00:10:40.000 But in those days, it was still legal in the early days.

00:10:44.000 But you had asked me about what the guys eat back, you know, the mighty men of all, just normal food, just good, basic food.

00:10:51.000 They drank a lot of milk.

00:10:52.000 Milk was considered a bodybuilding food.

00:10:55.000 And you can trace that, clear back, you know, thousands of years ago, even into India, where the Hindu wrestlers would drink the milk and eat almonds in an effort to build mass on their bodies.

00:11:10.000 So it's been well known.

00:11:13.000 Well, everyone, you know, talks about lactose intolerance and things along those lines, but a big issue with lactose intolerance is just homogenized and pasteurized milk.

00:11:22.000 And, you know, I've talked about that in the podcast and people have said, yeah, well, if you don't do that, people are going to get sick and...

00:11:28.000 That's not because of the That's not because the milk is bad.

00:11:47.000 It's because somehow or another it was handled poorly and people got sick because of it. 0.87

00:11:52.000 But this idea that pasteurization and homogenization is the only way to go with milk is really ridiculous.

00:11:59.000 I mean, it kills all the enzymes. 0.98

00:12:00.000 It is ridiculous.

00:12:02.000 I mean, people have been drinking milk literally for thousands of years. 0.90

00:12:06.000 I mean, animal husbandry goes back 10,000 years.

00:12:10.000 And to my way of thinking...

00:12:13.000 The modern cow is just a – I mean it's just a very sickly animal.

00:12:20.000 Even though they give these things steroids and they give them all sorts of antibiotics and all this stuff, they're feeding them grain.

00:12:27.000 Cattle were never meant to eat grain.

00:12:29.000 They eat grass in nature, in the wild.

00:12:33.000 And then like you said, you superheat the milk and you cook it literally to death until there's nothing left in it.

00:12:39.000 No wonder people have – And then on top of that, people are drinking milk combined with all other kind of stuff and overburdening their digestive system, overdrinking milk, and your body develops an intolerance.

00:12:54.000 Yeah, people have this aversion to bacteria, but what folks have to get in their heads, like this idea that homogenization and pasteurization is the only way to go because it kills all the bad stuff, but it also kills the good stuff.

00:13:09.000 I mean, sure, you're going to get some protein and calcium out of milk that's homogenized and pasteurized, but you're taking in cultures when you're drinking milk.

00:13:16.000 You're taking in a part of that animal's body.

00:13:19.000 The closer it is to being alive, the better it is for your body.

00:13:23.000 That's why meat is supposed to be consumed medium rare or rare.

00:13:26.000 That's the best way to eat meat.

00:13:28.000 You're going to get the most nutrition out of that food.

00:13:31.000 The only time you're supposed to cook meat Past that is when the animal is assumed to be sick.

00:13:39.000 Like the reason why we cook pork to 150 degrees is to kill trichinosis.

00:13:44.000 And that's one of the reasons why with factory pork or with, you know, what's the best word for it?

00:13:51.000 Farmed pork or domestic pork?

00:13:54.000 Domestic pork, they're now saying that they're lowering their standard.

00:13:57.000 They're lowering it down, I believe, 140 or 145 degrees because the instances of trichinosis are so rare.

00:14:03.000 In fact, 90% of all trichinosis cases in this country come from eating bear meat.

00:14:09.000 Interesting.

00:14:10.000 I've had bear meat, by the way.

00:14:11.000 It's delicious.

00:14:12.000 It was absolutely.

00:14:13.000 It was black bear.

00:14:14.000 Yeah.

00:14:14.000 Corn-fed black bear.

00:14:15.000 Corn-fed?

00:14:16.000 Yeah, well, the bear had actually been living outside this farmer's field.

00:14:21.000 And a friend of mine actually shot this thing and had prepared steaks and had...

00:14:28.000 He told me, hey, listen, I'm coming up to Philly to train some jiu-jitsu with you.

00:14:32.000 This guy was a firearms expert.

00:14:33.000 He actually taught firearms for the FBI. And he used to take Brazilian jiu-jitsu with me when I had my school in Philadelphia.

00:14:39.000 So I'm thinking, oh, my God, bear steak.

00:14:42.000 Gee, this sounds really sick, man.

00:14:44.000 So I was trying to think of every excuse for not eating it, right?

00:14:48.000 So he comes up.

00:14:49.000 He takes my wife out for a shooting lesson at the local range.

00:14:53.000 I, in the meantime, make some dinner for myself, and then I'm going to give him the excuse, wow, I was so hungry I couldn't wait, right?

00:15:00.000 So he's so hurt.

00:15:01.000 He's so hurt because, you know, he made this especially for me.

00:15:04.000 So I says, oh, what the hell, you know, I'll have a bite.

00:15:07.000 Dude, it was absolutely delicious.

00:15:09.000 And then I was ashamed of myself, like, wow, man, I wish I would have waited for, you know?

00:15:13.000 So I saved it and had it the next night.

00:15:15.000 Yeah, a bear is very good for you.

00:15:17.000 Shockingly delicious.

00:15:19.000 You just have to make sure you cook it correctly.

00:15:20.000 Like a smoky beef.

00:15:21.000 Yeah, but you also have to make sure that the animal hasn't been eating a lot of fish.

00:15:26.000 When they eat a lot of fish, they can get funky.

00:15:28.000 Or if you catch a bear that's been eating a rotten moose, and then for real...

00:15:34.000 Well, yeah, any kind of scavenger.

00:15:35.000 Well, they're omnivores.

00:15:36.000 Yeah, rather than scavenging and so forth.

00:15:38.000 But back to quality of food and so forth.

00:15:41.000 An awful lot depends on a person's ability to digest their food.

00:15:46.000 It all comes back to digestion.

00:15:48.000 If you can't digest it, then you can't assimilate it.

00:15:51.000 And a lot of the molecules of this undigested food passes through the gut membrane and creates this inflammatory response in the body.

00:16:00.000 That's how these people are getting a lot of their food intolerances and so forth.

00:16:05.000 When the digestion is in line, your immune system is in line.

00:16:09.000 You don't get sick.

00:16:10.000 Bacteria doesn't bother you.

00:16:14.000 In many cases, when the immune system is really, really strong, you even fight off cases of worms and all sorts of stuff.

00:16:21.000 Your body is amazing in its resilience.

00:16:25.000 Do you follow anything like a Gracie diet or one of those things where you don't combine foods to give your digestive system a bit of a break?

00:16:34.000 Yeah, very much so.

00:16:35.000 I was originally introduced to the Gracie Diet by Horian Gracie, the oldest son of Elio, and then later Elio himself.

00:16:43.000 I spent some time with Elio.

00:16:44.000 I actually stayed down at his ranch for almost a month one time in Brazil and Really.

00:16:48.000 Wow, that must have been amazing.

00:16:50.000 Oh, man.

00:16:51.000 It was.

00:16:52.000 What year was this?

00:16:53.000 This was the year that Hoyce fought in Copacabana and lost to Valiche.

00:16:58.000 Oh, okay.

00:16:58.000 Do you remember that?

00:16:59.000 So it was probably 96, maybe?

00:17:00.000 Was that 96?

00:17:01.000 Yeah, okay.

00:17:01.000 Somewhere around there, I want to say.

00:17:03.000 Maybe I'm a little off.

00:17:05.000 Might be 98, 99. Let's find out.

00:17:07.000 Anyway, keep going please.

00:17:29.000 And then later I read this guy, Dr. John Tilden, who wrote a book called Toxemia Explained.

00:17:34.000 He was a turn-of-the-century physician, and he cured many so-called incurable diseases just through diet and fasting alone.

00:17:43.000 And the basic premise is when you overmix a lot of food in one meal, there's a real tendency to overeat.

00:17:50.000 When you overeat, you overburden your digestive system.

00:17:53.000 And of course, there's a real tendency to put on body fat.

00:17:56.000 So when you eat just, let's say for example, I have a fruit-based meal, a starch-based meal, and a protein-based meal.

00:18:04.000 Occasionally I'll have some light dairy with the fruit, but a lot of times it's just fruit buds.

00:18:09.000 So occasionally a little bit of nuts.

00:18:12.000 With a starch meal, I will usually stick with something like sweet potatoes or potato.

00:18:18.000 But occasionally, I'll have wheat-based product.

00:18:20.000 I don't have any gluten problems whatsoever, mostly because of the way I combine my foods.

00:18:24.000 And I can have that with some vegetables and so forth.

00:18:27.000 And then I'll have a protein meal.

00:18:29.000 And all these meals are interchangeable.

00:18:31.000 I can have my protein meal for breakfast.

00:18:32.000 I can have my protein meal for lunch and so forth.

00:18:35.000 And usually with a protein meal, if it's really cold or I'm really hungry, I'll have a little soup and I'll have a raw leaf green vegetable salad, occasionally a couple of cooked vegetables, but basically meat and vegetables.

00:18:47.000 And when I say meat, I'm talking about fish, fowl, you know, all the type of flesh foods and so forth.

00:18:54.000 And since adopting that, I feel fantastic.

00:18:57.000 I'm like 61 years old now.

00:18:59.000 I still feel really good.

00:19:01.000 You know, I've been able to maintain a really low fat percentage and keep my energy and health because traveling is brutal, man.

00:19:09.000 I mean, I'm in a different country every couple weeks.

00:19:13.000 Ruthless on the immune system.

00:19:14.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

00:19:15.000 Flying can kick your ass, man. 1.00

00:19:17.000 A two-hour flight, 12-hour flight, doesn't matter. 1.00

00:19:19.000 It's just really debilitating to fly.

00:19:23.000 Something about the air and the...

00:19:26.000 It's radiation as well.

00:19:28.000 Yeah, the electromagnetic fields from the plane.

00:19:31.000 I mean, there's a lot of stuff that's hidden that people don't even realize that can make flying pretty hard in your system, but...

00:19:38.000 I do okay.

00:19:39.000 I really do.

00:19:40.000 The radiation thing is pretty shocking.

00:19:41.000 When I first started, someone was talking about x-rays.

00:19:44.000 I said, all right, well, let's look up how much radiation x-ray does cause you. 0.99

00:19:48.000 Fucking airplanes, way more than x-rays. 0.97

00:19:51.000 And, you know, people do it all the time. 0.99

00:19:53.000 All the time.

00:19:53.000 And those poor stewardesses and flight attendants and pilots, I mean, those guys must be beat down on a regular basis.

00:19:59.000 It's very...

00:20:00.000 Your body, once again, your immune system, when you're eating in accordance with nature and you're not overburdening the system, overburdening your digestive system and so forth...

00:20:10.000 Your immune system is pretty strong.

00:20:12.000 Your body can handle just about anything, really, but it does make you tired.

00:20:17.000 It can make you quite tired.

00:20:19.000 So rest becomes really important.

00:20:21.000 And I don't know about you, but I know you fly all over the place to do your comedy act and so forth.

00:20:28.000 And I find that if I rest up really well and don't do anything too strenuous, I bounce back pretty quick.

00:20:36.000 I find that also, I have to exercise when I land.

00:20:41.000 When I land, that's my secret to avoiding the real feelings of jet lag.

00:20:46.000 I get to the gym, I hit the elliptical machine, and I just do a hard half an hour on the elliptical machine.

00:20:51.000 Just something about, it forces my body into that sort of recovery response, and that kicks everything up a notch.

00:20:58.000 And it just seems to really help keep my energy at high levels when I fly.

00:21:01.000 Well, depending on what time of the day I'll land, one of my secrets for making the transition, the second I get on the plane, I reset my watch to whatever time zone I'm going to be in.

00:21:12.000 Sometimes I'm flying many time zones.

00:21:14.000 And then I immediately try to adapt my eating plan to the place I'm going, which means often skipping a meal.

00:21:23.000 Occasionally I'll even fast and not just drink water the whole time I'm on the plane, don't eat anything.

00:21:27.000 I figure it's low activity anyway.

00:21:29.000 And then the second I land, I'm like you.

00:21:32.000 If it's in the early part of the day, I'll take a nice walk.

00:21:36.000 I do this thing called Russian breathing ladders where I work the breath.

00:21:41.000 It's fantastic.

00:21:43.000 You match the inhale exhales to your steps and you see how many steps you can get up to on the inhale and how many steps you can get on the exhale.

00:21:52.000 So you might be taking like 20 steps in one inhale and exhaling over 20 steps and you'll keep that going.

00:21:58.000 That's really interesting.

00:21:59.000 I do something similar in the isolation tank.

00:22:02.000 Just to clarify what I said earlier, I was incorrect.

00:22:04.000 It's actually the same as an x-ray.

00:22:06.000 A seven-hour flight from New York to London, you receive the same dose of radiation as a chest x-ray.

00:22:12.000 From New York to Tokyo, it's two chest x-rays.

00:22:15.000 So that's where I had gotten it wrong.

00:22:17.000 So a six-, seven-hour flight is like an x-ray.

00:22:19.000 That's still a lot.

00:22:20.000 I mean, like when you go to the dentist, right?

00:22:22.000 You always see the hygienist jump behind the curtain.

00:22:26.000 She doesn't want to... 1.00

00:22:27.000 When you're supposed to be just doing this x-ray, right?

00:22:30.000 Harmless x-ray, but you never see her in the room with you, man.

00:22:32.000 Yeah, they run away.

00:22:33.000 It's kind of hilarious. 0.98

00:22:34.000 They're covering your balls and your chest and thyroid with a lead shield. 0.88

00:22:39.000 So, obviously, it's not as harmless... 0.90

00:22:44.000 Yeah, especially if you think about poor pilots, you know?

00:22:47.000 I mean, that's pretty crazy when you really stop and think about it.

00:22:50.000 It's pretty nutso, man.

00:22:51.000 So it was 98, which is Hoist Gracie's Waleed-Ismail fight.

00:22:56.000 Okay.

00:22:57.000 So you went down there in 1998. You stayed for a month with Elio Gracie.

00:23:02.000 For folks who don't know, Elio Gracie is one of the most important figures in the history of martial arts, if not the most important figure.

00:23:10.000 Him and Carlos Gracie essentially created what we call modern Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

00:23:16.000 They started the revolution.

00:23:18.000 And since then, there's been a lot of innovation and a lot of change and a lot of growth since that time, since the 1940s and 50s and 60s and on through...

00:23:28.000 The Hickson, Hoyce, you know, all these guys that came up afterwards, you know, through the 90s, and then once the Ultimate Fighting Championship came around, boy, it just skyrocketed.

00:23:37.000 Now, Jiu-Jitsu.

00:23:38.000 And your son, Max, is really...

00:23:41.000 Zach, excuse me, Zach Maxwell.

00:23:43.000 Excuse me.

00:23:43.000 Zach fought in Metamorris.

00:23:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:23:47.000 Wow, he really did a terrific job.

00:23:49.000 That kid was tough.

00:23:49.000 He fought Sean Roberts.

00:23:51.000 Yeah.

00:23:51.000 That guy's like a real submission machine.

00:23:53.000 So, you know, I was a little nervous.

00:23:56.000 Zach is slick.

00:23:56.000 He's slick.

00:23:57.000 He's a very relaxed guy.

00:23:59.000 But, you know, he was one of the first generation of American children to grow up in the Brazilian jiu-jitsu system.

00:24:07.000 I started him when he was really just a little...

00:24:10.000 I was laughing when Krom was talking about the invisible jiu-jitsu, more like invisible pressure.

00:24:18.000 Well, I wasn't so subtle with the pressure I put on poor Zach.

00:24:21.000 Really?

00:24:22.000 But he really grew up in that whole system.

00:24:26.000 Was that because of the way your father pushed you into wrestling?

00:24:29.000 Probably.

00:24:30.000 It was an unconscious thing.

00:24:31.000 I had a little bit of that little league syndrome going on there.

00:24:35.000 Maybe looking to get some type of fulfillment through my kids. 0.99

00:24:43.000 There was all that crap going on. 0.97

00:24:45.000 Well, I have girls, but I teach them jiu-jitsu, but I make it fun. 0.98

00:24:48.000 I have them arm bar me, and I just show them where to put their legs, and how to pull, and how to set up the position, and I show them the mount.

00:24:57.000 But what's really fascinating is, you know, you're familiar with the concept that there's certain things that get passed on through genetics.

00:25:04.000 In fact, they've proven that with certain mice, that they can take mice, and they can...

00:25:13.000 They put a smell in the air, and when that smell happens, like a citrusy smell, they'll give an electrical shock to the feet of the mice, like they're standing on this thing.

00:25:23.000 And when they smell this smell, they zap their feet.

00:25:26.000 Not to kill them, just enough to make them realize, yikes, this is not good.

00:25:31.000 Their children, with no electricity whatsoever, smell that smell, and a panic ensues.

00:25:38.000 They have a panic response.

00:25:40.000 Interesting.

00:25:40.000 So it's passed on through their genetics.

00:25:42.000 Cellular memory.

00:25:43.000 Yes.

00:25:44.000 My three-year-old, when her and my four-year-old, well, her and my five-year-old started rolling around, the three-year-old would take the back and go over-under. 0.97

00:25:55.000 She throws the hooks in, and she goes like this, and she hangs on.

00:25:59.000 I was like, that's crazy.

00:26:01.000 It's almost like instinct.

00:26:03.000 They were rolling around, and the older daughter turned sideways, and the three-year-old went like this, and then threw her legs over. 1.00

00:26:13.000 And I was like, that is fucking crazy! 0.94

00:26:15.000 Because she did what I've done probably a hundred thousand times. 0.96

00:26:20.000 But it's, in my mind...

00:26:23.000 You see the back, you get that over under, you throw the hooks on.

00:26:26.000 I mean, it's just instinctively.

00:26:27.000 So to see a little three-year-old immediately do it, I'm like, I wonder if that's in their genes.

00:26:32.000 I wonder if that has somehow or another been passed on.

00:26:35.000 I mean, we'll never know, but it's an interesting theory.

00:26:38.000 We may in our lifetime.

00:26:40.000 I mean, they may be able to illuminate that.

00:26:44.000 But human beings are natural grapplers.

00:26:47.000 All mammals are grapplers.

00:26:49.000 I mean, even orca will wrestle sharks.

00:26:53.000 There was an amazing film in New Zealand of some tourists that there was a female orca with her calf training the calf how to hunt.

00:27:02.000 She hit a great white from underneath and stunned it and grabbed it and turned it over.

00:27:08.000 Sharks need to continuously move in order to breathe.

00:27:12.000 When they turn over, for some reason they go docile.

00:27:15.000 So she held it.

00:27:17.000 Upside down until it drowned.

00:27:19.000 Yeah, I've seen that.

00:27:20.000 Then they ate the liver.

00:27:21.000 Yeah.

00:27:22.000 Once again, grapplers, man.

00:27:23.000 If you think about it, in nature, prey animals are strikers and predators are grapplers.

00:27:29.000 Sure, cats.

00:27:30.000 What do cats do?

00:27:31.000 They immediately, they get a hold of the neck and then they dive under.

00:27:35.000 They go to full guard, you know?

00:27:37.000 I mean, that's super common in the cat world.

00:27:39.000 Pretty much the neck bite, man.

00:27:39.000 Yeah.

00:27:40.000 There's a crazy video of a lion, a female lion, killing a wildebeest.

00:27:45.000 And the way she kills the wildebeest, not a wildebeest, what are those pig looking things?

00:27:52.000 Was it a warthog?

00:27:53.000 Yeah, I guess it's a warthog.

00:27:54.000 A crazy looking tusk.

00:27:57.000 But she dives on it, she bites its neck, and then she rolls under it. 1.00

00:28:02.000 I mean, she pulls guard on this warthog and then slowly chokes it out and kills it by holding onto its neck. 0.99

00:28:08.000 And it's fascinating to watch because it's totally like watching jujitsu.

00:28:12.000 I was in Bali, and I stayed right across the road from the monkey sanctuary. 1.00

00:28:18.000 And the place where I was staying in Bali, the monkeys would just overrun the place a couple times a day.

00:28:23.000 The whole troop would just come walking through.

00:28:24.000 Hundreds of them, right?

00:28:25.000 Hundreds of them.

00:28:26.000 It's kind of scary.

00:28:27.000 Don't leave your iPhone laying around your room key or anything, because little suckers will grab it, and then you have to bribe them to get it back.

00:28:35.000 Did that happen with you?

00:28:36.000 Well, I almost got my iPhone.

00:28:39.000 But I would be working my iPad a lot of times because I make my living to an online personal training aside from seminars.

00:28:46.000 So I'd always be working at the wee hours in the morning when this monkey troop would come through. 1.00

00:28:50.000 So I bought just one of these cheap little wooden slingshots.

00:28:53.000 And you don't even have to shoot at the monkey.

00:28:56.000 You just pull it back and they start to scream and run away.

00:28:59.000 They're smart enough to know I guess enough people are shot at them.

00:29:02.000 So they would take off and leave me alone.

00:29:04.000 But I would watch these young monkeys wrestling.

00:29:07.000 And my God, it was jiu-jitsu.

00:29:09.000 They were using the guard.

00:29:10.000 They'd put the feet in the hips and flip each other over. 1.00

00:29:13.000 They would go to the back. 0.75

00:29:14.000 It was really fun to watch the little suckers doing jiu-jitsu with each other in the morning. 0.91

00:29:19.000 And of course, they used the neck bite like a cat.

00:29:22.000 Have you ever seen the documentary Grizzly Man?

00:29:26.000 I... I saw the one part where...

00:29:29.000 The bears going at it?

00:29:31.000 Yeah.

00:29:32.000 Fascinating!

00:29:32.000 Yeah.

00:29:32.000 The documentary is amazing.

00:29:34.000 I never watched the whole thing.

00:29:34.000 Oh, it's incredible.

00:29:35.000 It's one of my favorite documentaries.

00:29:36.000 That was Werner Herzog, yeah?

00:29:37.000 Yes.

00:29:38.000 Yeah, okay, yeah.

00:29:38.000 I did see part of that.

00:29:40.000 I just kept thinking to myself the whole time, what is this guy thinking, man?

00:29:43.000 Yeah.

00:29:44.000 You're just Emil, you know?

00:29:46.000 Yeah. 0.95

00:29:47.000 He was crazy. 0.96

00:29:48.000 He had a lot of issues for sure. 0.96

00:29:50.000 I mean, as you delve deep into the documentary, all these different people from his past are talking about how crazy he was.

00:29:57.000 It's actually an unintentionally hilarious documentary.

00:30:00.000 It's really quite funny.

00:30:01.000 But when the bears are going at it, it's full jiu-jitsu.

00:30:04.000 It's full jiu-jitsu.

00:30:05.000 Full guard.

00:30:06.000 The bear gets side control at one point.

00:30:09.000 And then the other bear hip escapes and gets back to guard.

00:30:12.000 I mean, it's crazy.

00:30:14.000 I mean, you watch how they're doing it.

00:30:16.000 It's like, these bears are using a form of jiu-jitsu.

00:30:19.000 It's very similar.

00:30:20.000 Back in the 70s, I went down to Atlantic City.

00:30:25.000 And I used to be really into arm wrestling.

00:30:27.000 It was actually pretty good.

00:30:28.000 And I actually won the East Coast Resort Championship in Atlantic City in my weight in armor.

00:30:35.000 I was a college wrestler at the time.

00:30:36.000 I wrestled Division I NCAA and did a lot of strength training in those days.

00:30:41.000 And the halftime entertainment was Victor the Wrestling Bear.

00:30:47.000 And do you remember the karate guy, movie guy, stunt guy, Joe Hess?

00:30:52.000 No.

00:30:53.000 He was a fairly well-known martial arts guy at the time.

00:30:56.000 He did a lot of Hollywood stunt work and so forth.

00:30:58.000 Anyway, he went out to wrestle Victor the Wrestling Bear.

00:31:02.000 And it was amazing how this bear would use single leg takedowns.

00:31:06.000 Really?

00:31:07.000 It would grab him behind the Achilles and put his big old bear shoulder and head against the thigh to take him down. 0.97

00:31:15.000 It was just really amazing to watch this bear go to work.

00:31:18.000 Like he actually had moves or something.

00:31:21.000 So he would go for a low single?

00:31:23.000 Yeah!

00:31:23.000 He would take this big...

00:31:25.000 This guy probably weighed about 240, 250, this Joe Hess.

00:31:28.000 And if you saw him, you'd probably recognize him.

00:31:30.000 He used to play a henchman in a lot of movies and stuff.

00:31:32.000 Anyway, he was throwing this Joe Hess around, and this was just like a little black bear.

00:31:36.000 And then people could wrestle the bear if they wanted to.

00:31:39.000 The bear was muzzled, of course.

00:31:41.000 And it was really amazing, man.

00:31:43.000 Did they cover the bear's claws with anything?

00:31:45.000 Yeah, they had like little pads around the claws.

00:31:47.000 But you had no chance against this bear, man.

00:31:50.000 I mean, no chance whatsoever.

00:31:53.000 Frighteningly strong this animal was.

00:31:55.000 And it was really funny to watch. 0.97

00:31:57.000 Yeah, the comparison, the relative comparison of strength between a person and an animal, it's so ridiculous. 0.83

00:32:02.000 We had a two-year-old chimp on news radio, this show that was on once. 0.98

00:32:08.000 I don't even think we ever used it on the show.

00:32:10.000 I think it was one of those scenes that just got cut.

00:32:12.000 But the chimp was hanging around the set, and the chimp trainer... 1.00

00:32:16.000 And they were explaining to me how you can only have babies.

00:32:20.000 Like, you can't have, like, a grown adult male chimp. 1.00

00:32:23.000 Like, that crazy lady in Connecticut? 1.00

00:32:25.000 Like, they don't do that. 0.70

00:32:26.000 They got her face eaten? 1.00

00:32:28.000 Well, it wasn't her.

00:32:29.000 It was her friend.

00:32:30.000 Right.

00:32:31.000 Ate the eyeballs?

00:32:32.000 Yeah.

00:32:32.000 Her friend got attacked by the chimp.

00:32:35.000 But the woman who was keeping this chimp was fucking insane. 1.00

00:32:38.000 Because trainers don't even do that. 1.00

00:32:39.000 They don't spend time alone with these things because they're fucking dangerous. 0.99

00:32:43.000 They are dangerous. 0.99

00:32:44.000 And then they start to think and act like they're human because they've been humanized.

00:32:48.000 Yeah.

00:32:49.000 And there's been cases where some of the animals become sexually aggressive towards the females.

00:32:55.000 Yes.

00:32:55.000 Imagine, it's basically a teenage...

00:32:58.000 You know, a mammal, and they don't have any outlet.

00:33:02.000 I mean, it's crazy. 0.97

00:33:02.000 Yeah, they don't have any sexual outlet other than masturbation or frogs, if they catch a frog. 0.97

00:33:06.000 You ever see one catch a frog and they fuck a frog? 1.00

00:33:08.000 It's like 98 – they have the same genetics, 98 percent of the readers. 0.99

00:33:12.000 So they're going to have a lot of crazy human characteristics.

00:33:15.000 But no morals, ethics, no understanding of language.

00:33:19.000 They don't understand the concept of doing someone harm.

00:33:22.000 It doesn't even mean anything to them.

00:33:25.000 But this two-year-old chimp that we had was on my back and just playing with me, just smacking me every now and then, just joking around. 1.00

00:33:32.000 And I was like, this is freaky how strong this thing is.

00:33:35.000 It was only this big.

00:33:36.000 It was this little tiny thing, and I was holding it, and it was hanging on to me, and then it would rotate on me, and then it slapped my back. 0.99

00:33:44.000 And I was like, Jesus Christ, this little baby could probably fuck me up. 0.99

00:33:49.000 And imagine a gorilla. 1.00

00:33:51.000 I was part of Arthur Jones, the inventor of Nautilus, had a ranch down in Florida.

00:34:01.000 And he used to be an animal hunter and trapper.

00:34:05.000 He used to catch animals for zoos.

00:34:07.000 He had white rhinos.

00:34:09.000 He had a huge herd of...

00:34:11.000 In Florida?

00:34:12.000 Yeah, this is in Lake Helen, Florida.

00:34:16.000 He had his big Nautilus medical sports industries down there.

00:34:20.000 He owned giant jumbo Airlines, airplanes.

00:34:26.000 He was a pilot.

00:34:27.000 I mean, it was crazy.

00:34:28.000 He had the biggest private herd of elephants.

00:34:30.000 So he would fly them in on planes?

00:34:32.000 My father was an inspector for the Federal Department of Agriculture.

00:34:36.000 He actually inspected Jones elephants.

00:34:39.000 That's how I got to go down to the ranch and meet Arthur Jones. 0.99

00:34:43.000 I wouldn't even imagine you'd get a fucking elephant on a plane. 0.99

00:34:46.000 They had those big cargo jets. 0.99

00:34:49.000 Like those military style ones?

00:34:51.000 Yeah.

00:34:51.000 Wow.

00:34:52.000 That makes sense.

00:34:54.000 Wasn't that a movie?

00:34:55.000 Dumbo Drop or something?

00:34:56.000 Something like that.

00:34:57.000 But he was an elephant hunter at one point and felt pretty bad about slaughtering elephants.

00:35:03.000 So he decided to do some conservation work and...

00:35:06.000 But at any rate, he had a pet gorilla named Mickey.

00:35:10.000 And this Mickey, they actually sedated it one time and put it on an old Nautilus pullover machine.

00:35:15.000 It's a pretty funny picture.

00:35:16.000 I actually had it in my gym at one point, this gorilla.

00:35:19.000 But I saw Mickey throw a fit with his trainer one time and threw a head of cabbage at the guy because he was pissed off about something, I don't know.

00:35:27.000 But it hit the guy in the head and knocked him out.

00:35:29.000 Wow.

00:35:29.000 Just a head of cabbage, dude.

00:35:31.000 Imagine the power.

00:35:32.000 Maybe the guy had a glass jaw.

00:35:34.000 I don't know.

00:35:35.000 It looked to me like it was the back side of the head.

00:35:38.000 Wow.

00:35:38.000 Knocked this guy out, man.

00:35:40.000 Yeah, I bet it was coming at 300 miles an hour.

00:35:43.000 For sure, man.

00:35:44.000 I mean, you did not want to...

00:35:45.000 I mean, it just gave you the idea of just how powerful these animals are, man.

00:35:49.000 Yeah, we can't even wrap our head around what an 800-pound primate would be like, the kind of strength that they would have. 0.88

00:35:56.000 It would just be ridiculous. 0.84

00:35:57.000 A chimpanzee, they say that a hundred... 0.96

00:35:59.000 Is this him right here?

00:36:00.000 That's him right there.

00:36:01.000 The photo up there on the screen?

00:36:03.000 That's it.

00:36:04.000 Wow.

00:36:06.000 Mickey the gorilla.

00:36:06.000 I can't believe the guy kept the gorilla.

00:36:08.000 Well, I can't believe you found that picture.

00:36:09.000 Nice research, man.

00:36:11.000 Powerful Google.

00:36:11.000 I actually had that poster in my gym at one point.

00:36:17.000 They say that a 150-pound chimp is supposed to have the strength of a 500-pound man. 0.91

00:36:22.000 So what does an 800-pound gorilla have the strength of?

00:36:24.000 My God, it's just unfathomable.

00:36:27.000 Yeah, they probably just tear you apart, just pull you to pieces.

00:36:30.000 Pretty much.

00:36:30.000 You just have to wonder about these researchers laying out there in the grass with these things.

00:36:35.000 Oh, you ever see them stand still?

00:36:37.000 It's like, good God almighty, man.

00:36:39.000 When they bluff charge you, you can't move?

00:36:41.000 You have to stand still?

00:36:42.000 It's...

00:36:45.000 Too much for me, man.

00:36:47.000 Well, you know, they didn't even know that gorillas were real until the early 1900s.

00:36:51.000 It was just a legend.

00:36:53.000 There was a recent discovery as far as, like, you know, biologists would just hear about these things that lived in the jungles.

00:37:03.000 But they didn't have any real evidence of mountain gorillas until...

00:37:06.000 I think it was like 1910 or something like that.

00:37:08.000 And they finally started seeing them and taking photographs of them. 0.98

00:37:11.000 Can you imagine the first person to stumble across a fucking gorilla and realize that's a real thing? 0.99

00:37:15.000 It just blew your mind, man. 0.99

00:37:16.000 It's only a hundred years ago.

00:37:17.000 Of course, in those days, they were into trophy hunting and they were probably just shooting the hell out of these things.

00:37:22.000 And they're pretty peaceful from what I understand.

00:37:23.000 I mean, they let you alone.

00:37:25.000 Yeah, there's a lot of trophy hunters now. 0.61

00:37:27.000 Reclusive and all that.

00:37:29.000 Yeah.

00:37:29.000 What was really amazing to me was the chimpanzees, they commit murder and rape and the different tribes actually hunt each other and they're cannibals.

00:37:38.000 Yeah. 0.94

00:37:38.000 You know, they're not the cute little things that you, they're nasty little guys. 0.94

00:37:43.000 That's another thing about chimps.

00:37:44.000 They didn't find out until the 90s that they even ate meat.

00:37:47.000 Yeah.

00:37:48.000 They're omnivores.

00:37:49.000 Yeah.

00:37:50.000 Pretty much, like I said, 98% of our DNA. Yeah.

00:37:54.000 That's the crazy thing about gorillas, that they're not. 0.91

00:37:56.000 Gorillas are huge, enormous, muscular beasts.

00:38:00.000 Super aggressive, giant canines. 1.00

00:38:02.000 They eat sprouts and shit. 1.00

00:38:04.000 Bamboo. 1.00

00:38:05.000 A lot of bamboo.

00:38:06.000 It's nuts.

00:38:06.000 Well, they have that enzyme where they can process...

00:38:17.000 Welcome to my show!

00:38:30.000 Human beings cannot process cellulose.

00:38:33.000 So all the nutrients that are bound in the cellulose fiber cannot be absorbed or assimilated into the body.

00:38:40.000 So we have to do things like cook food.

00:38:43.000 You know, like broccoli, for example, is completely undigestible, but yet you see it in every salad bar.

00:38:48.000 Really?

00:38:49.000 So when you eat broccoli raw, you're just doing nothing?

00:38:51.000 You're not getting much.

00:38:53.000 Really?

00:38:53.000 It becomes a digestive irritant, really.

00:38:55.000 Same thing with cauliflower.

00:38:56.000 That's why they should be cooked or steamed to break down the cellulose. 0.97

00:39:01.000 Or you can juice them.

00:39:02.000 The high-speed juicing process.

00:39:04.000 You take the cellulose out of there, and then you get the nutrients and so forth.

00:39:08.000 Do you cold-press juice?

00:39:09.000 Do you ever have cold-pressed juice?

00:39:10.000 Well, you know, because I'm on the road, I don't have kitchen implements and so forth.

00:39:14.000 But for sure, I would if I had a permanent setup.

00:39:17.000 Yeah.

00:39:18.000 Yeah, there's a company near me that sells cold-pressed juices, and God, they're so good.

00:39:23.000 And they're, I mean, this company, they have like cabbage and all these, I mean, they don't taste the best, but God damn, you just feel the nutrients when you drink it.

00:39:31.000 It's like your body just goes, yes! 0.77

00:39:33.000 You know, like it does a little Diego Sanchez, yes, cartwheel, when you drink it.

00:39:38.000 Diego's a character, man.

00:39:39.000 I worked with him down at the University of Jiu-Jitsu.

00:39:41.000 What a good guy.

00:39:42.000 Well, you got him in probably the best shape of his life when he fought BJ Penn for the title.

00:39:47.000 I remember that.

00:39:47.000 He was in amazing shape.

00:39:49.000 I mean, BJ is an incredible fighter.

00:39:52.000 Let's face it.

00:39:53.000 His skill set is just, like, amazing.

00:39:55.000 And the only thing that was probably keeping Diego on his feet in that fight was the fact that he was just in such superb shape.

00:40:02.000 It would have been more merciful if he wouldn't have been in shape because then he could have just got knocked out.

00:40:08.000 I mean, it was really bad, the cuts and so forth, that he got.

00:40:12.000 Well, the cut is what stopped it, and that was that big head kick that he took.

00:40:14.000 Oh, it was just awful, man.

00:40:16.000 His face was really laid open.

00:40:17.000 It was very sad.

00:40:18.000 Yeah, he got caught early in that fight, too.

00:40:20.000 He got hurt, like, moments into the first with a right hand.

00:40:24.000 And then, it's just, I don't know.

00:40:26.000 I mean, even if he wasn't in shape, Diego's just got such an incredible will.

00:40:29.000 I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a guy with a will that strong.

00:40:34.000 I've never seen a guy able to push himself to such an nth degree.

00:40:37.000 Look at that picture of him.

00:40:38.000 He looked fantastic in that fight, too.

00:40:40.000 He doesn't look like that now.

00:40:42.000 Oh, no?

00:40:43.000 Well, maybe he's trained a little bit different way.

00:40:45.000 Well, he just doesn't look as muscular or strong.

00:40:47.000 You know, he's smaller now.

00:40:50.000 I think maybe he sacrificed a little bit of muscle mass for maybe more cardio.

00:40:55.000 But he's also fluctuated back and forth now.

00:40:58.000 He's done a few fights at 170, like with Jake Ellenberger, Martin Campman, and then he's gone down to 55, and he goes back and forth.

00:41:06.000 He actually said that before his last fight, he ate some bad beef tartare and got sick, and that he had some sort of food poisoning that sapped him of his strength.

00:41:19.000 Before the Miles Jury fight, his last fight.

00:41:21.000 I thought that was crazy that he would eat beef tartare right before he fought a major UFC fight without knowing the source of...

00:41:29.000 I think he ate it at a hotel.

00:41:31.000 He was in Vegas.

00:41:33.000 I've been a long time wrestling competitor.

00:41:35.000 I wrestled all through the 60s and 70s and then later I got into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

00:41:41.000 I was very animate about never eating anything different, you know, when it came, you know, within a day or so of the fight.

00:41:49.000 So I would never experiment or eat anything unusual or no way, man.

00:41:53.000 Yeah, I would think Diego would...

00:41:55.000 I think it was Dallas, actually, now that I think about it.

00:41:57.000 I don't think it was Vegas.

00:41:58.000 But, you know, I was shocked that he would do that.

00:42:01.000 He'd eat beef tart.

00:42:02.000 I mean, that's a risky thing to eat, too.

00:42:04.000 Raw beef?

00:42:05.000 Well, you just don't know these hotels.

00:42:08.000 I mean, what you're going to get in these restaurants and so forth.

00:42:11.000 Usually when I travel, I try to use Airbnb.

00:42:15.000 Airbnb?

00:42:16.000 Airbnb.

00:42:16.000 What's that?

00:42:17.000 It's a website where you can rent little apartments or even little cottages and houses.

00:42:22.000 And they're all over the world.

00:42:24.000 Oh, Bed and Breakfast.

00:42:25.000 Yeah, Bed and Breakfast.

00:42:26.000 BNB.com.

00:42:28.000 Fantastic.

00:42:32.000 So much cheaper than hotels.

00:42:34.000 Plus, you don't have to go broke going out to dinner all the time in restaurants and so forth because usually these places have stoves or ovens and you can cook.

00:42:43.000 Sometimes you'll walk out and have a blender or something.

00:42:45.000 I mean, wow, it's really good.

00:42:47.000 You can buy your stuff and bring it back.

00:42:49.000 Oh, that's nice.

00:42:50.000 So you go and go to a grocery store.

00:42:52.000 That's got to make a huge difference.

00:42:53.000 Huge difference when you're traveling like I do.

00:42:55.000 Yeah, it's tricky, right?

00:42:57.000 I eat out a lot, but the kind of diet I have is really not that hard.

00:43:01.000 A lot of times I'll just go to grocery stores and so forth and buy the food and bring it back.

00:43:06.000 I find, believe it or not, in Europe and even Russia, I was just in Russia not too long ago, the food is superior to what we have in the United States.

00:43:17.000 Really?

00:43:17.000 Really.

00:43:18.000 How so?

00:43:19.000 Well, they don't have agribusiness there.

00:43:20.000 You know, if you go into an average supermarket in the United States, you'll see all the fruit.

00:43:26.000 It's perfect.

00:43:27.000 It's all waxy and shiny and everything's lined up.

00:43:30.000 And of course, unless you're going to like an organic place, you know, like Whole Foods or something.

00:43:34.000 But if you're not buying organic produce, you know, the produce always looks so uniform and so pretty, but it tastes kind of like cardboard.

00:43:42.000 In Europe, it looks like they've just picked the apples out of someone's backyard.

00:43:47.000 I mean, sometimes they'll have holes and they're irregular shaped.

00:43:50.000 I mean, it just looks like fruit you pick off a tree.

00:43:54.000 And absolutely delicious.

00:43:56.000 You go down the aisle of a US supermarket, let's just take the cereal aisle for example.

00:44:00.000 You might have like 80 choices.

00:44:02.000 There you might have like five or six.

00:44:04.000 People don't overeat like we do here in the States and the food is much simpler but really delicious.

00:44:11.000 It's not hard to feed yourself in Europe.

00:44:13.000 So the vegetables are closer to like heirloom tomatoes, like that type of thing?

00:44:18.000 Exactly.

00:44:18.000 And you can taste the difference.

00:44:19.000 Boy, have you ever had, folks who've never had heirloom tomatoes, you know, you see, the tomatoes that we have in stores today, a lot of times what you're getting is these genetically modified tomatoes that are surviving for long periods of time since they've been picked to the time that you eat them.

00:44:34.000 They can last weeks and weeks and weeks, which is not normal.

00:44:37.000 I grow tomatoes, and if I take one of my tomatoes and I pick it, then I put it on my counter, in a couple of days it starts getting funky.

00:44:43.000 That's right.

00:44:44.000 You want to eat it quick.

00:44:45.000 You want to pick it and eat it within days.

00:44:48.000 Yeah.

00:45:09.000 They're harvested early so that they have a longer shelf life.

00:45:13.000 They're genetically modified.

00:45:15.000 Like apples, for example, they have these storage apples.

00:45:19.000 People are eating apples during the winter and so forth, but these things are really old.

00:45:24.000 They've been around in storage, cold storage.

00:45:28.000 They're not getting the nutrients like they could if they were eating in season.

00:45:33.000 Yeah, I've started over the last couple years, started growing my own food.

00:45:38.000 Growing my own food and my own eggs.

00:45:40.000 That's a big one.

00:45:41.000 I have my own chickens.

00:45:43.000 And I mean, these chickens are pets.

00:45:45.000 Like my three-year-old daughter picks them up and she can carry them.

00:45:47.000 I mean, they're pets.

00:45:48.000 And they run around the yard.

00:45:50.000 They eat grass and worms and they eat.

00:45:53.000 They eat table scraps too, which is great, because food that we necessarily might not eat, you scrape a plate off, it doesn't have to look pretty.

00:46:03.000 Leftovers, we do eat leftovers, and we'll seal them and put them back in the refrigerator, but the stuff that's just a little bit left on your plate, we'll just take a little bit of that from everybody's plate, put it on a plate, put it out there for the chickens, and they go nuts for it.

00:46:17.000 You know, we don't feed them chicken, of course, but, you know, we'll feed them beef and we'll feed them vegetables and, you know, they'll eat all sorts of different things.

00:46:24.000 That was like Elie Gracie's farm in Terrazopolis.

00:46:26.000 You know, he lived up in the hills and he had his own farm and he had his own chickens that were free range.

00:46:33.000 They would bring the eggs in.

00:46:34.000 He had his own herd of cows that were just grass fed.

00:46:37.000 He would milk those cows every day.

00:46:39.000 From the raw—he used to bring me—he knew I liked milk.

00:46:42.000 He'd bring me a pitcher, so frothy, from the cow's teat, set it on the table for me to drink.

00:46:48.000 That would be my breakfast, a liter of raw cow milk.

00:46:51.000 Wow.

00:46:52.000 He would make cheese from that milk, his own brand of cheese with no salt or anything, just like a fresh, non-aged type cheese.

00:47:01.000 He would go down to the pond.

00:47:03.000 He had this big spring-fed pond where he would fish, catch the fish for that night.

00:47:10.000 Vegetables were grown in a garden.

00:47:12.000 You know, you hear about these acai drinks, you know?

00:47:14.000 Most of them are just sugar water, just frozen sugar water, this acai you buy in the supermarket.

00:47:20.000 Yeah, acai is a berry, a Brazilian berry, this guarana.

00:47:24.000 It has this sort of – it's got a stimulant effect to it.

00:47:28.000 Extremely high in all sorts of nutrients and so forth.

00:47:32.000 Antioxidants.

00:47:33.000 But it tastes really bitter.

00:47:35.000 It's not a sweet fruit.

00:47:37.000 He would pick the acai off the tree and come in and actually literally juice the acai right there fresh on the spot.

00:47:45.000 It was amazing, man.

00:47:47.000 You know, there's coconuts.

00:47:48.000 There was these little tiny bananas he would get.

00:47:51.000 I mean, he was basically living off the land, you know?

00:47:54.000 It was really cool.

00:47:55.000 I think the only thing they would buy, they would have rice and stuff occasionally.

00:47:58.000 But for the most part, he was just living off the food that he produced on his farm.

00:48:03.000 I want to do that.

00:48:04.000 Self-sufficient, man.

00:48:05.000 That's my ultimate goal.

00:48:07.000 I mean, I'm slowly working my way towards that by growing a bunch of food around the house.

00:48:11.000 But that's the solution.

00:48:13.000 I mean, I thought about it.

00:48:14.000 I was like, everybody wants all these things.

00:48:16.000 Everybody wants...

00:48:16.000 I want a boat.

00:48:17.000 I want a vacation home.

00:48:19.000 I want a this.

00:48:19.000 And how many people that have money ever...

00:48:22.000 Raise their own food.

00:48:24.000 No one ever says, hey, I'm going to take this money and I'm going to invest in a patch of land and soil and farming tools and heirloom seeds, and I'm going to grow my own food. 0.96

00:48:35.000 Nobody fucking does that. 0.83

00:48:36.000 It's a weird thing. 0.99

00:48:38.000 People's priorities are very skewed.

00:48:40.000 Very skewed.

00:48:41.000 Well, you know, like with my own example, I mean, I wasn't always this way, but...

00:48:47.000 Everything I own is in one 65 liter bag.

00:48:50.000 One 65 liter bag.

00:48:52.000 He's in the trunk of the car.

00:48:53.000 How big is 65 liters?

00:48:54.000 Oh, it's about maybe like 14 inches high by about 28 inches long.

00:49:00.000 Wow.

00:49:01.000 And that's it.

00:49:02.000 It wasn't always that way, of course.

00:49:03.000 I had the four-story brownstone house in Philly, and the gym, and the first Brazilian jiu-jitsu academy in the eastern seaboard.

00:49:12.000 Maxercise, right?

00:49:13.000 Maxercise, even before Henzo era.

00:49:14.000 I heard about that place back in the day.

00:49:16.000 But you were one of the first American black belts.

00:49:18.000 I was.

00:49:19.000 One of the...

00:49:20.000 I don't know what the ranking, but it's certainly one of the early ones.

00:49:23.000 What year did you get your black belt?

00:49:24.000 2000 from Helsing Gracie in Hawaii.

00:49:27.000 And then I was Horace Gracie's training trainer for his first...

00:49:33.000 So you got your black belt when you were in your late 40s.

00:49:36.000 I did.

00:49:37.000 I was 48 years old.

00:49:40.000 I'm 61 now, so what was 2000?

00:49:43.000 So I was, what, 58?

00:49:44.000 Wow.

00:49:45.000 So when you were training down at Elio's place, you were still brown belt?

00:49:49.000 I was a purple belt.

00:49:50.000 Purple belt, wow.

00:49:52.000 How did you get invited to go down there?

00:49:54.000 I was with Hoyce as his trainer.

00:49:56.000 I was trying to prep him for the Valigi fighter.

00:49:58.000 Oh, so you were a strength and conditioning coach.

00:50:00.000 So I was this conditioning coach.

00:50:01.000 And I was pretty close with Hoyce.

00:50:03.000 His wife used to actually be my kid's babysitter. 0.95

00:50:06.000 And I knew her when she was going to medical school, Mary Ann.

00:50:09.000 She also taught aerobics and was one of my exercise instructors.

00:50:13.000 Very knowledgeable woman when it came to exercise and fitness and things.

00:50:17.000 And she was actually going to get her degree in podiatric medicine.

00:50:22.000 And...

00:50:23.000 Pediatric?

00:50:24.000 Is that what you mean?

00:50:24.000 Podiatric.

00:50:25.000 Yeah, she was a foot doctor. 0.95

00:50:27.000 Oh, podiatry.

00:50:28.000 Yeah, podiatry.

00:50:29.000 And then I used to bring Hoyce and he would stay with me for a prolonged period of time.

00:50:35.000 He stayed with me for I forget how many weeks.

00:50:37.000 It was a really long time.

00:50:40.000 You know, my wife and I, we're older and, you know, we have this young Brazilian kid.

00:50:44.000 What are you going to do with this guy?

00:50:45.000 So I said, Marianne, she was a really pretty girl, you know, said, hey, would you just take him out?

00:50:50.000 I mean, just do something, anything, you know?

00:50:52.000 So she was doing it basically as a favor, you know, a little bit under protest, you know, but she took hoax out and they fell in love.

00:51:00.000 Aww.

00:51:01.000 It was awesome, man.

00:51:02.000 I mean, it was so cool, you know?

00:51:04.000 That is cool.

00:51:04.000 And then he was supposed to go back to California, and we had a huge blizzard in Philly.

00:51:09.000 The airport was shut down and all that stuff.

00:51:11.000 So we stayed like this extra week.

00:51:13.000 And that was the first snow that Hoyce had ever experienced.

00:51:16.000 No kidding.

00:51:17.000 In fact, we made a snowman together.

00:51:19.000 And, of course, he put abs in the snowman and had this snowman with this big butcher knife.

00:51:24.000 A real macho snowman, man.

00:51:27.000 Macho snowman.

00:51:28.000 But it's so much fun.

00:51:29.000 Of course, he wanted to drive my car in the snow.

00:51:31.000 I was like, oh my god. 0.99

00:51:32.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

00:51:33.000 Did you let him? 0.99

00:51:34.000 Yeah.

00:51:34.000 Well, hey, it was Horace Gracie.

00:51:36.000 You didn't say no, man.

00:51:37.000 How'd that go?

00:51:39.000 He was actually an amazing good driver.

00:51:41.000 What kind of car was it?

00:51:42.000 It was a four-wheel drive?

00:51:43.000 A Subaru front-wheel drive.

00:51:45.000 Oh, Subaru's a great in this snow.

00:51:47.000 Notoriously great in this snow.

00:51:48.000 Yeah, no, he did great, man.

00:51:50.000 He figured out how to steer into the skid.

00:51:52.000 Scared the shit out of me.

00:51:53.000 That must have been fun, though.

00:51:54.000 Yeah!

00:51:54.000 He must have been like a little kid.

00:51:56.000 That was back in the early days, you know, when things were still innocent.

00:51:58.000 Right.

00:51:59.000 When I started with the Gracies, they were all one big happy family.

00:52:02.000 What year was this?

00:52:03.000 This is 89. I had my first seminar.

00:52:05.000 I said, holy shit, this is what I've been looking for, man. 0.99

00:52:07.000 89. So you were way ahead of the curve. 0.99

00:52:09.000 Way ahead of the curve.

00:52:10.000 I had, you know, after college wrestling, I coached for a few years in a local high school.

00:52:15.000 I did the freestyle circuit, but hey, it's a young man's sport.

00:52:18.000 And it's really hard when you have a family and you're working to actually go to a university and train with university wrestlers.

00:52:25.000 And you start missing your timing and, you know.

00:52:28.000 So I was looking for something to replace the thrill of wrestling.

00:52:33.000 And what were you doing for work then?

00:52:35.000 I was actually working in a gym.

00:52:36.000 I was a fitness director at the Society Hill Club in Philadelphia at that time.

00:52:41.000 And so I'm just looking for something, man.

00:52:44.000 I tried Kung Fu.

00:52:46.000 I tried Kempo Karate.

00:52:48.000 I tried a Japanese-style karate.

00:52:51.000 I tried my hand at Muay Thai.

00:52:52.000 I basically sucked at these striking arts.

00:52:54.000 It just wasn't in my genetics. 0.80

00:52:58.000 I wanted to grab and clinch.

00:52:59.000 It used to really piss my instructors off because it was almost like an instinctive reaction.

00:53:05.000 I quickly learned that you can avoid...

00:53:09.000 Let's take MMA and put it to a side.

00:53:13.000 I was interested purely in self-defense at that time.

00:53:16.000 You know, I always felt like somehow I missed the boat because that was the Bruce Lee era, right?

00:53:21.000 70s and later.

00:53:24.000 And I always thought like, wow, I shouldn't have been wasting my time with wrestling.

00:53:27.000 I should have been doing like Jeet Kune Do or, you know, that Ip Man stuff. 0.98

00:53:31.000 And I didn't realize what a good basis wrestling really was.

00:53:35.000 And the few scraps I did get in, I found that, wow, you know, double leg takedown goes a long way.

00:53:40.000 You smash somebody down, it kind of takes the fight out of them a little bit, you know?

00:53:44.000 And what little striking I knew, I was able to equip myself all right in the few scraps I had.

00:53:50.000 But I still felt like there was something missing.

00:53:52.000 There's fancy kicks and punches.

00:53:54.000 And when I saw that Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, I said, man, I could do this.

00:53:58.000 I could really do this.

00:53:59.000 And then I saw the first Gracie in action tape, and I realized, wow, man, this is very...

00:54:05.000 Doable.

00:54:06.000 And so I went into it with this whole self-defense aspect in mind, which they really emphasized in those days.

00:54:12.000 But yeah, hey, it was one big happy family.

00:54:14.000 The Machadas had just split from Horium when I first met them.

00:54:16.000 They went with Chuck Norris, as you know.

00:54:19.000 There was like a bit of a difference of opinion or whatever.

00:54:23.000 And then after I'd been at the Gracie Academy for a couple years, I would fly from Philly.

00:54:28.000 At that point, I had my own gym at $19.99 open.

00:54:31.000 I would go out for a couple weeks at a time with a certain budget.

00:54:35.000 And I would take like $1,000 or whatever.

00:54:38.000 And lessons were $100 at that time.

00:54:42.000 With Horian or Hoyce or Hoyler or Hickson.

00:54:46.000 And if I got one move in that hour, I call it my $100 move.

00:54:52.000 Because usually there would be, you know how it is in jiu-jitsu, especially when you're a blue belt, you get really confused and you get in these positions over and over again and you can't quite figure out what to do.

00:55:03.000 And if they would give me the answer to that particular problem, I would say, oh, that was the $100 move.

00:55:08.000 That was worth every penny to me because that's how into it I was.

00:55:12.000 Right.

00:55:13.000 And then I would go through my $1,000 or so, right, with the private lessons.

00:55:16.000 And, of course, they would throw the classes in for free since I was buying so many privates.

00:55:21.000 And then I would go back, and I had mats in my gym, and then I would just call up all my old wrestling buddies, and there was a judo club nearby, I would call those guys in, and there was the keto guys down the street, and I would just basically beat up these poor guys. 0.98

00:55:36.000 You just didn't know what you were doing.

00:55:38.000 I had no idea.

00:55:39.000 The judo guys didn't know any of it?

00:55:41.000 They didn't know much.

00:55:43.000 It was more, you know, judo became very sports-oriented.

00:55:45.000 But I did pick up some good stuff from the judo guys.

00:55:48.000 Take downs, throws.

00:55:48.000 Oh yeah, some good throws and so forth.

00:55:50.000 Trips.

00:55:51.000 But I had what they called wrestler jits, you know?

00:55:54.000 And pretty rough, pretty rough stuff.

00:55:56.000 A lot of strength, a lot of power, just like wrestling, you know?

00:55:59.000 I mean, what did I know?

00:56:01.000 But I got my blue bout pretty quick, about six months, and I got my purple bout in about a year and a half, I think.

00:56:07.000 I went through the ranks, but then I reached the level of my incompetence.

00:56:11.000 And there I stayed, purple ball for about four years.

00:56:14.000 What do you mean?

00:56:14.000 You reached the level of your incompetence?

00:56:16.000 Well, I just couldn't make that next jump to brown ball. 0.99

00:56:20.000 I was still using too much power, too much strength, too much athleticism, you know?

00:56:24.000 And, you know, jiu-jitsu is supposed to be based on technique and relaxation, and I still didn't have that.

00:56:29.000 I can remember one time Hoist got really pissed off with me.

00:56:32.000 We were in the middle of a session, you know, and I was being what, you know, in the jiu-jitsu world is sort of rude.

00:56:41.000 I was kind of grabbing the gi in a rough way and, you know, wrestlers have this way of kind of grinding heads sometimes, you know?

00:56:47.000 Right.

00:56:47.000 It's really pissing them off.

00:56:48.000 And he says, hey, wait, this is the gi, this is skin. 0.76

00:56:53.000 And then we wrestled a bit.

00:56:54.000 He said, why are you grinding your head into mine? 0.96

00:56:57.000 What are you possibly thinking to achieve with this?

00:57:01.000 And then he looked up at the clock.

00:57:02.000 He says, okay, these next 10 minutes are going to be the most terrifying of your life, Steve.

00:57:08.000 And I'm like swollen gulp.

00:57:10.000 You know, I knew what was going to happen.

00:57:11.000 He basically just wiped the mat up with me.

00:57:15.000 Squeezed me, smashed me, knee in the belly and the ribs.

00:57:18.000 And he wouldn't let me tap.

00:57:19.000 And he just basically thrashed me for 10 minutes straight, nonstop.

00:57:23.000 I was just utterly exhausted, not to mention just the trauma of just being thrown around by your idol or your hero, you know, and who was mad at you.

00:57:32.000 So there was that emotional thing going on.

00:57:35.000 And then he says, okay, how does it feel, Steve?

00:57:38.000 It feels pretty bad, doesn't it?

00:57:39.000 And I says, man, it really does.

00:57:41.000 He says, well, you know, that's what other people feel like when you wrestle them.

00:57:45.000 He says, when you wrestle these other guys, that's what you're doing to them.

00:57:49.000 He says, not much fun.

00:57:51.000 You're going to turn people off from jiu-jitsu.

00:57:53.000 So you better never, ever, I never better catch you again using all that power and strength and being so rude. 0.87

00:58:00.000 And it was like, wow, okay.

00:58:03.000 And then the next day I got the flu because it lowered my immune system.

00:58:07.000 Wow! 1.00

00:58:08.000 Just getting your ass kicked, lowered your immune system. 1.00

00:58:09.000 I'm telling you, he really kicked my ass, man. 1.00

00:58:11.000 It was really traumatic. 0.99

00:58:12.000 And I got the flu, and I was so disappointed because he's teaching these seminars, and I couldn't go.

00:58:18.000 I was on the couch with a fever.

00:58:20.000 But man, it taught me such an important lesson about relaxation and all that.

00:58:26.000 Yeah, I've learned that around probably Purple Belt too.

00:58:29.000 Just learned how to relax and how to...

00:58:31.000 Well, also learned how to do a real 20-minute session.

00:58:34.000 How do you roll with someone for 20 minutes if you're just going...

00:58:37.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:58:38.000 You can't sprint for 20 minutes.

00:58:40.000 In those days, I still wasn't getting it, man.

00:58:43.000 I wasn't getting it.

00:58:44.000 But that beating really made a profound influence on me.

00:58:46.000 And he did me a great service.

00:58:48.000 Great service.

00:58:49.000 I always liked that whole Gracie teaching aspect of the whole thing, you know?

00:58:54.000 Like Horian always said, you know, it's not really a martial arts style.

00:58:58.000 It's an educational system.

00:59:00.000 It's a way of teaching jiu-jitsu.

00:59:02.000 Yeah, I like their motto, keep it playful, too.

00:59:05.000 You know, Henner and Huron, they say that all the time.

00:59:09.000 Keep it playful, keep it playful.

00:59:11.000 And, you know, you can protect yourself while you're doing that, and then slowly but surely, a guy who's going to, unless you're dealing with a three-minute match, you're going to have your opportunities.

00:59:20.000 And, you know, I mean, I'm not against the competition aspect of it, but it is different.

00:59:24.000 I know Elio told me one time that he considered the modern-day competition to be anti-jujitsu.

00:59:29.000 I thought that was an interesting statement.

00:59:31.000 He says, I would have never been able to win, like, one of these modern-style matches with the points and all that.

00:59:36.000 So that wasn't my game.

00:59:38.000 He said, I couldn't do my jiu-jitsu to other people because I was too small, too weak.

00:59:43.000 He said, they did it to themselves.

00:59:45.000 Did Elio do any strength and conditioning?

00:59:48.000 No, not that I know of.

00:59:49.000 I mean, he did stretching and, you know, basic jiu-jitsu conditioning stuff, but he never really believed in weight training or any of that.

00:59:56.000 But, you know, he always mentioned how weak he was, but he did have his strength.

01:00:00.000 His grips were pretty amazing, even for an old man. 0.98

01:00:02.000 And, of course, he had these huge Popeye-type forearms, you know.

01:00:05.000 So, I mean, it was obvious that he definitely had some athleticism and strength.

01:00:09.000 But he was such a lightweight guy, there was no way he was going to overpower anyone.

01:00:14.000 Right.

01:00:14.000 But have you ever read the biography of Esau Maeda, the guy that taught the grace of Carlos?

01:00:20.000 No.

01:00:21.000 I read the Japanese translation into English.

01:00:24.000 And of course, it definitely had a Japanese prejudice to it.

01:00:27.000 But that guy was a pretty amazing guy.

01:00:30.000 He was a representative sent from the Kodokan.

01:00:32.000 Shigeru Kano organized all the Jiu-Jitsu clans in Japan and was trying to come up with the one style of Jiu-Jitsu, which he called Judo, the gentle way.

01:00:43.000 In those days, there was a lot of ground fighting, throws into joint locks.

01:00:47.000 All the stuff that's illegal in modern-day Judo was still part of the game.

01:00:51.000 They had knee locks.

01:00:52.000 I actually watched a videotape of old black-and-white footage.

01:00:56.000 Some of these old Japanese masters were doing the X-Guard. 1.00

01:01:01.000 Wow.

01:01:01.000 Elliott told me that everything was there when Carlos learned jiu-jitsu from Maeda.

01:01:08.000 But Maeda, a lot of people don't know, won over a thousand no-hold barred fights. 1.00

01:01:13.000 A thousand?

01:01:14.000 A thousand.

01:01:14.000 How the hell do you fight a thousand times?

01:01:17.000 I don't know.

01:01:17.000 How's that even possible?

01:01:18.000 It's like that Hickson 400 and 0 thing.

01:01:20.000 Someone tried to break that down once of how long it would take.

01:01:23.000 I would like to know, but he did stage fights in Spain and England and France.

01:01:30.000 Then he came to the U.S., You mean on stage?

01:01:33.000 You don't mean, like, staged, like, with predetermined outcomes?

01:01:36.000 On stage.

01:01:36.000 Like, they would ask people from the audience to come up and challenge.

01:01:39.000 Oh, okay.

01:01:40.000 Like, those type of things.

01:01:41.000 And there were no-hold-barred fights, or there were judo matches?

01:01:43.000 There were no-hold-barred fights.

01:01:44.000 Wow.

01:01:44.000 They could do anything to the guy.

01:01:46.000 And he fought boxers.

01:01:48.000 Well, he was one of the guys that taught Theodore Roosevelt.

01:01:53.000 The early judo.

01:01:55.000 Really?

01:01:55.000 And that became part of the training for Army aviators during World War II. And a lot of the Army guys in World War II, jujitsu was the basis for the self-defense in the U.S. Army.

01:02:09.000 And then one of his cohorts was humiliated by a champion wrestler from West Point.

01:02:17.000 And Maeda got some Japanese businessmen to put up some money and then he beat the guy that beat his partner.

01:02:26.000 And then from there he emigrated to Cuba and did all these fights in Cuba.

01:02:30.000 I mean he was fighting like apparently for money a couple times a week.

01:02:35.000 He went to Mexico and they would go to the mining camps or lumberjack camps where he had all these guys with a lot of money and they would bet And sometimes he would almost lose a match on purpose to encourage guys to come out there and say,

01:02:51.000 oh, I can beat this little guy. 0.99

01:02:53.000 And then he would kick their asses. 1.00

01:02:54.000 So it was like Charles Bronson in hard times, just the Japanese version. 1.00

01:02:58.000 Japanese version.

01:02:59.000 Wow.

01:02:59.000 And he was only 165 pounds, but apparently he had some devastating throws, and his groundwork was just absolutely superb.

01:03:05.000 And Jigoro Kano threw him out.

01:03:07.000 It was unbudo-like. 0.98

01:03:08.000 You're doing these fights.

01:03:10.000 You're fighting with no gi sometimes.

01:03:12.000 It's not what we represent here at the Kodokon.

01:03:15.000 So he was...

01:03:15.000 The Kotokan is the main sanctioning body.

01:03:17.000 That was the main sanctioning body in Japan at that time.

01:03:22.000 And so he kept going further and further down and then of course the Gracies met him and helped him get a Japanese immigration colony started. 0.79

01:03:31.000 The father of Carlos Gracie helped this Maeda guy get established.

01:03:39.000 In gratitude, he taught the five sons.

01:03:45.000 It was Carlos, Oswaldo, I forget the guys, but Carlos had the five brothers.

01:03:52.000 The only guy that didn't directly get taught was Elio.

01:03:54.000 Elio learned his jiu-jitsu pretty much from Carlos.

01:03:57.000 He was a very weak, sickly child at the time, and they basically were doing the jiu-jitsu of Maeda.

01:04:04.000 Wow.

01:04:07.000 Elio would watch his brother teach, and then it was discovered that, wow, he's really adept at this.

01:04:14.000 He has a real knack for teaching and doing jiu-jitsu.

01:04:18.000 Carlos kind of just handed the reins over to Elio, and then he took it and ran with it and developed it, and the rest is pretty much history.

01:04:23.000 It's so fascinating that even to this day, the smaller guys are the more technical guys.

01:04:29.000 And when you think about the birth of jiu-jitsu happening from Carlos teaching Elio and Elio being a small guy, his jiu-jitsu became very technical.

01:04:37.000 Like the last UFC, we were talking about this one.

01:04:39.000 It comes up when the flyweights and the bantamweights, these 125, 135-pound fighters.

01:04:45.000 And I've said many, many times, if you want to see excellent technique, these are really the guys to watch.

01:04:50.000 First of all, because they never get tired.

01:04:52.000 And two, because when you're a 125-pound guy and you're at the gym, you're not muscling anybody around.

01:04:57.000 You're not muscling anybody.

01:04:58.000 You've got to learn to do everything correctly.

01:05:00.000 Everything has to be proper technique.

01:05:01.000 Everything has to be perfect form.

01:05:03.000 You have a gravity and strength disadvantage from the jump.

01:05:07.000 And so because of that, you learn to do everything absolutely correctly.

01:05:11.000 You very rarely see...

01:05:13.000 Like, a really good, light jiu-jitsu guy who tries to muscle things.

01:05:17.000 They don't try to muscle.

01:05:18.000 Almost never.

01:05:19.000 Sometimes ex-wrestlers. 0.93

01:05:20.000 And they'll do that right up through about purple butt, like myself.

01:05:23.000 And then they get lost.

01:05:26.000 The technique begins to outstrip their strength at the brown and black belt levels.

01:05:32.000 The guys...

01:05:33.000 Everyone is strong in good shape, but they have incredible technique at that level.

01:05:39.000 So if you've been basing most of your winnings on athleticism and strength and all that, once you hit Brown Belt, man, forget it.

01:05:48.000 It's not going to happen too much anymore. 0.96

01:05:50.000 Yeah, I've always said, man, if you could get a guy like Mark Coleman, who was such a dominant wrestler in his prime, you know, when he was UFC heavyweight champion, if that guy just fell in love with jiu-jitsu and just was passing the guard, mounting, taking backs, taking arm bars, I mean, he would have just been a fucking beast. 0.67

01:06:06.000 He would have been a beast. 0.93

01:06:06.000 Well, yeah. 0.93

01:06:07.000 Well, he was a beast.

01:06:08.000 Kevin Randall and all those guys.

01:06:09.000 Yeah, all those guys.

01:06:11.000 None of them embraced jiu-jitsu.

01:06:12.000 No, they never did.

01:06:13.000 It was always, you know, well, it's that wrestler mentality.

01:06:16.000 I mean, I had it.

01:06:17.000 You know, I thought I knew everything.

01:06:18.000 And wrestlers are pretty aggressive guys.

01:06:20.000 And, you know, you're very confident in yourself.

01:06:23.000 And there's a tendency to think you know everything.

01:06:27.000 But smart wrestlers, you know, they eventually start to lighten up and they start to embrace the technique of jiu-jitsu.

01:06:34.000 It makes a perfect combination.

01:06:35.000 It's real easy for wrestlers to just slide right in there, man.

01:06:39.000 Sure.

01:06:39.000 I mean, that's the other thing about wrestling as opposed to jiu-jitsu is wrestlers are so much more drill-oriented.

01:06:45.000 Wrestlers, by necessity, drill techniques a lot, constant training.

01:06:51.000 If you go to any high-level wrestling room, you'll watch guys hit techniques over and over and over and over again.

01:06:56.000 Whereas in jiu-jitsu, there's like a little bit of drilling and then, okay, free train, everybody, let's roll.

01:07:02.000 And everybody just roll because it's so fun to just roll.

01:07:05.000 So fun to just try to submit each other.

01:07:07.000 They don't do the same sort of drilling and technique-based training that a lot of wrestlers do.

01:07:13.000 At the highest level, wrestling on the feet, the stand-up part of wrestling, is just as technical as jiu-jitsu in many ways.

01:07:20.000 It's very subtle, a lot of setups.

01:07:23.000 I mean, it's pretty amazing.

01:07:26.000 Those guys at Flow Wrestling, you ever gone to that website?

01:07:30.000 I have.

01:07:30.000 I love that website.

01:07:31.000 Great website.

01:07:32.000 But they do a great job of explaining that.

01:07:34.000 And showing how technical the European and the Russian wrestlers are and how much more they rely on those techniques and the subtle varieties of their exchanges and their entrances into techniques.

01:07:48.000 I really like that.

01:07:49.000 I like emphasizing that aspect of the wrestling.

01:07:52.000 Because a lot of people don't know what it is.

01:07:54.000 You see big, strong guys trying to overpower each other.

01:07:56.000 You don't understand.

01:07:57.000 There's so many different moves that are being exchanged at a rapid pace and attacks.

01:08:04.000 Backs and counters.

01:08:05.000 Yeah, feints.

01:08:07.000 I had the privilege of working with five-time Ukrainian national wrestling champion Andre Brenner.

01:08:12.000 He used to come up to my school in Philadelphia all the time and train.

01:08:15.000 Wow, that guy showed me so much technical wrestling.

01:08:18.000 And then one of my students was Yasushi Miyake, who was one of the judges for Pride.

01:08:23.000 He was a fourth-down black belt in judo from the Kodokon, but he was also a three-time world record Roman wrestling champion.

01:08:31.000 Wow.

01:08:31.000 And he was working for a Japanese import company in Philly.

01:08:35.000 Came into our school. 0.96

01:08:36.000 Guy was, you know, big, thick Coke bottle glasses, just this kind of silly little grin, really polite. 0.97

01:08:43.000 He's bowing a lot. 0.98

01:08:44.000 He spoke almost no English.

01:08:46.000 And, you know, so he wanted to train with us.

01:08:49.000 So we gave him a gi, you know.

01:08:50.000 He puts on the white belt, you know, no fuss.

01:08:53.000 Next thing I know, he's launching dudes, man.

01:08:56.000 It's like, oh, my God.

01:08:58.000 What a sleeper.

01:08:59.000 What a sleeper.

01:09:01.000 This guy's a white belt, man.

01:09:03.000 And you had no idea what his background was?

01:09:05.000 He's doing like Sagan Augies from the knees and throwing guys, man.

01:09:09.000 It's like, wow.

01:09:10.000 So we finally get the guy to write his name for us so we can Google him.

01:09:15.000 What year was this?

01:09:16.000 This is like 95, 96?

01:09:18.000 It was Google in 95?

01:09:20.000 No.

01:09:20.000 There was some sort of an internet search.

01:09:22.000 It was some kind of internet because I was completely non-tech.

01:09:26.000 I didn't even have a laptop in those days, Joe.

01:09:28.000 I didn't even have a cell phone back in 95. Wow.

01:09:31.000 I don't know.

01:09:31.000 One of my students did whatever you do on a computer and looked him up and found him.

01:09:37.000 Then we said, holy shit. 0.99

01:09:39.000 You got a gem. 1.00

01:09:40.000 This guy is unbelievable, man!

01:09:43.000 And we were shocked.

01:09:45.000 It was like three-time World Greco-Roman.

01:09:47.000 He was an Olympian in the Atlanta Olympics.

01:09:50.000 Wow.

01:09:51.000 So he's just trying to have some fun.

01:09:53.000 He plays just out of the medal round, yeah.

01:09:54.000 He just wanted to train.

01:09:55.000 I guess he had heard about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and wanted to try it out.

01:09:59.000 And he went through the ranks fast, man.

01:10:02.000 I actually took him...

01:10:03.000 The first professional grappling tournament was the Pro-Am event down in South Carolina.

01:10:08.000 Do you remember this?

01:10:09.000 There was a couple of guys that put it on, a couple of entrepreneurs.

01:10:11.000 What year was this?

01:10:12.000 Man, I'm terrible for these dates, man.

01:10:14.000 You really put me on the spot with these dates.

01:10:16.000 But it was pre-Hois and Waleji, right? 1.00

01:10:21.000 That was 98, was Hoist and Baligi when you went down to Brazil.

01:10:25.000 I think, yeah, it was pre.

01:10:26.000 Pre.

01:10:26.000 That was probably a white belt.

01:10:28.000 Solo fought in it.

01:10:29.000 Oh.

01:10:31.000 Maybe it was 2000, after 2000. You see she fought in this thing and took second place against really good black belts at that time.

01:10:41.000 I wish I could remember something.

01:10:42.000 I know, Hoyler fought.

01:10:43.000 It was like a who's who of grappling.

01:10:45.000 Wow.

01:10:46.000 Solo fought.

01:10:48.000 He fought this catch wrestler guy.

01:10:51.000 No kidding.

01:10:52.000 It was real interesting.

01:10:53.000 It was like a mixed grappling style.

01:10:54.000 But it's called the Pro-Am.

01:10:56.000 It was like the first professional level type grappling thing.

01:10:59.000 I remember it vaguely now.

01:11:00.000 I remember it vaguely now.

01:11:02.000 But I was still...

01:11:03.000 I was really...

01:11:04.000 I started in 96...

01:11:06.000 I started, I took my first class at Hickson's, and then Hickson's was pretty far down.

01:11:12.000 It was on Pico, and I found that Carlson had a place on Hawthorne, which was like really close to where I was working.

01:11:19.000 So I went to Carlson's.

01:11:21.000 To me, I was a white guy.

01:11:22.000 I was like, Gracie is Gracie, you know?

01:11:23.000 Yeah, sure.

01:11:24.000 I mean...

01:11:25.000 At that stage.

01:11:26.000 Came in right when Vitor was fighting John Hess.

01:11:29.000 Vitor was like 18 years old.

01:11:31.000 And they were calling him Victor Gracie.

01:11:32.000 It wasn't Vitor.

01:11:33.000 They put a K in there.

01:11:35.000 I don't know what happened.

01:11:37.000 They changed his name.

01:11:38.000 I don't know what happened.

01:11:39.000 But it was Victor Gracie.

01:11:41.000 Victor Gracie.

01:11:42.000 When Carlson was trying to adopt him or was treating him like he was his son.

01:11:46.000 And so he was taking on the name Gracie because the Gracie name was huge back then.

01:11:50.000 Yeah, well, for sure.

01:11:51.000 96, a couple years after the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

01:11:53.000 Everybody wanted to train with a Gracie. 1.00

01:11:54.000 Everybody wanted to be a Gracie. 1.00

01:11:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:57.000 And I got a chance to see Mario Sperry was down there.

01:12:02.000 Murillo Bustamante was training back then.

01:12:04.000 Sergio Cohen.

01:12:05.000 All these black belts from Brazil. 0.92

01:12:07.000 Carlos Barreto was there.

01:12:09.000 They were the guys, man.

01:12:10.000 They really laid the foundations here in America, you know?

01:12:12.000 I just got so lucky.

01:12:14.000 I came in and I watched that all happen right during the extreme fighting days.

01:12:18.000 Remember that?

01:12:19.000 When John Peretti was putting on those extreme fighting challenges and Half Gracie was there and Half Gracie was fighting in those.

01:12:26.000 Remember those?

01:12:27.000 That was back in the day.

01:12:29.000 That was back in the day, man.

01:12:30.000 Well, a lot of people don't realize your athletic prowess either.

01:12:36.000 I mean, a lot of your listeners have no clue.

01:12:37.000 I'm always shocked when I say, well, Joe is like a world-class athlete, man.

01:12:42.000 People always say, really?

01:12:44.000 He says, yeah, he's not just a television host or comedian or announcer.

01:12:48.000 He says, this guy can rumble, man.

01:12:50.000 I'll never forget when you showed me that spinning back kick on the banana bags in your garage.

01:12:54.000 I mean, they were 200-pound bags, Joe.

01:12:56.000 You were bending those things in half.

01:12:59.000 My ribs hurt just watching you do that, man.

01:13:02.000 So a lot of people don't realize your pedigree in jiu-jitsu and submission wrestling and kickboxing too, man.

01:13:10.000 Well, I've been obsessed with it my whole life.

01:13:12.000 The only thing that's been fucking with me lately is I haven't really been able to roll hard for the last year. 0.75

01:13:17.000 I've only rolled once over the last year. 0.88

01:13:19.000 I had a bulging disc in my back, actually in my neck, and I started doing this thing called Regenikine.

01:13:27.000 I did a bunch of different therapies for it, but I was really worried about pursuing jujitsu past this because I started getting numbness.

01:13:39.000 We're good to go.

01:13:54.000 After a year of different therapies, like I did prolo-ozone, which is prolo-therapy with ozone, which stimulates healing, and I did a lot of rolfing, like really hardcore deep tissue massage and soft tissue manipulation.

01:14:11.000 I'm really familiar with rolfing.

01:14:12.000 Do you do any of that?

01:14:13.000 I was actually rolfed by Ida Rolf's son.

01:14:16.000 Whoa.

01:14:17.000 The guy, you know, she invented rolfing out of frustration because her son went through that polio epidemic of the 50s and was all twisted up, this poor kid.

01:14:26.000 And she took him to specialist after specialist.

01:14:29.000 She had a PhD in biochemistry, a very intelligent woman.

01:14:33.000 Out of sheer frustration, she just started molding the boy herself.

01:14:37.000 And came up with their ideas of rolfing and then began to teach other people the postural integration techniques.

01:14:42.000 I was rolfed by that point.

01:14:44.000 Wow, that's amazing.

01:14:45.000 He was an amazing rolfer.

01:14:47.000 And then I had a woman in Philadelphia, Linda Grace, fantastic, one of the professors at the Rolf Institute.

01:14:54.000 They go and teach for a while and they revolve in and out.

01:14:59.000 You know, it's not always the same professors at the Rolf Institute.

01:15:02.000 But this woman saved my life in my jiu-jitsu career. 0.99

01:15:04.000 I had some pretty horrific injuries.

01:15:07.000 No one ever said that playing combat sports is healthy, man.

01:15:09.000 No.

01:15:10.000 Well, I had this conversation today with the doctor because I have some photos of it that I'm going to put up on Instagram, but I'll show them to you, what this process is.

01:15:19.000 But it's pretty fascinating.

01:15:20.000 What they do is they take your blood...

01:15:24.000 And this is me lying on this table with all these needles in my back.

01:15:29.000 And then those little tubes on the end of the needles, that's where they pump this serum in.

01:15:34.000 I'll put all these on Instagram later so you guys can see them.

01:15:36.000 And what it is is...

01:15:39.000 We're good to go.

01:16:04.000 It becomes the most potent anti-inflammatory medication known to man.

01:16:08.000 And it's produced by your own blood, which is really amazing.

01:16:11.000 So they pull this yellow serum out, and then they inject it directly into the injured areas with dramatic results.

01:16:18.000 It's your own anti-inflammatory.

01:16:19.000 Yes.

01:16:20.000 Well, see, we had talked about supplements earlier, right?

01:16:22.000 And I used to be quite the supplement hound.

01:16:25.000 Anywhere between $250 to $300 a month I was spending on supplements.

01:16:30.000 And I quickly realized that I was actually undermining my body's ability to make its own anti-inflammatories.

01:16:38.000 Your body, when it's being fed properly, and your digestion is in order, and you're assimilating the nutrients that you need from your diet, you make your own anti-inflammatories.

01:16:49.000 And you do not need to be taking a lot of extra nutrients.

01:16:54.000 If anything, it throws you completely out of balance.

01:16:57.000 Well, I'm sure that your body can make anti-inflammatory responses to injuries, but nothing like this.

01:17:04.000 I mean, your body is making it this, but what's genius about this?

01:17:08.000 You're using your own body, so it's different than taking a supplement.

01:17:12.000 Well, it's also, they're directly injecting it into the, this guy, Dr. Peter Welling, is a spinal surgeon in Dusseldorf, Germany, and he's the one who figured this out.

01:17:23.000 He has this two-year study of osteoarthritis of the knee that's published in the medical journal.

01:17:29.000 Journal, Osteoarthritis and Cartilage, which started a lot of all this off and got a lot of people invested in this procedure.

01:17:38.000 And they figured it out in Germany in like 2003. And the United States has really been hampered with a lot of this research because of all the shit that went down with stem cell research.

01:17:48.000 The religious right was, you know, really putting the brakes on any sort of stem cell research and they were connecting stem cell research with Fetal tissue and aborted babies and people are going to abort babies just to get the fetal tissue. 0.99

01:18:02.000 There was so much fucking craziness. 0.99

01:18:04.000 It's a craziness, man. 0.99

01:18:04.000 And this thing that they do, the way that it differentiates between platelet-rich plasma, which is what a lot of people think of when they think of blood spinning. 0.99

01:18:18.000 What this is...

01:18:20.000 It's a little bit more potent, and I would butcher it.

01:18:23.000 So if anybody's interested in it, read about it online.

01:18:26.000 They call it OrthoKeen in Germany, and it's called Regenokene in America, but they do it in Santa Monica now.

01:18:32.000 It's done in Vegas and Dallas, and they're doing it all over the place with miraculous results for athletes.

01:18:37.000 There's a lot of athletes that have...

01:18:39.000 Well, all these guys were flying to Germany.

01:18:41.000 Kobe Bryant was flying to Germany.

01:18:44.000 What is his name?

01:18:46.000 Peyton Manning had two neck surgeries.

01:18:48.000 He's already retired from football.

01:18:49.000 Went and got orthochine in Germany, and boom, playing better football than ever.

01:18:53.000 It's pretty amazing those NFL guys...

01:18:54.000 Hey, can we take a brief break?

01:18:55.000 Sure. 0.99

01:18:56.000 I just need to hit the head. 0.99

01:18:57.000 Yeah, hit the head. 1.00

01:18:58.000 Go ahead. 0.82

01:18:58.000 Go ahead, man. 0.82

01:18:58.000 That awesome coffee you gave me? 0.82

01:19:01.000 Listen, man.

01:19:02.000 It takes a while to get used to...

01:19:03.000 I got that old man bladder going on, man. 0.90

01:19:05.000 Don't worry about it, dude. 0.99

01:19:06.000 I got a lot of shit to talk about and let people know. 0.93

01:19:09.000 Anybody who's interested in the place, if you're anywhere near Santa Monica, the guy that I go to for this Regenicene thing... 0.98

01:19:17.000 I have no financial, just in the interest of full disclosures, I have no financial interest in this whatsoever.

01:19:24.000 His name is Dr. Ben Ruhi, and he does it out of a place called Lifespan Medicine that is in Santa Monica, and it's incredible stuff.

01:19:35.000 And It's also...

01:19:36.000 The beautiful thing about it is you don't have to worry about your body rejecting it.

01:19:40.000 This is all something that your body naturally produces.

01:19:42.000 So if you're interested, just run a Google search on it and find out if there's a place anywhere near you that has this.

01:19:50.000 But for me, I've had amazing results with this.

01:19:54.000 And then from that and the raw thing and all these other different...

01:19:59.000 Procedures that I've tried, out of all of them, the Regenikine has had the most dramatic responses because it's pretty dramatic and pretty quickly.

01:20:10.000 I've also found that if you have any joint pain, people out there with joint pain, a big one for me has been fish oil.

01:20:17.000 Fish oil is really incredible anti-inflammatory properties to it.

01:20:22.000 I have a friend who's a carpenter, and he's told me that through taking fish oil, like he used to get really sore knees and elbows after a long day of work, just completely eradicated a lot of that stuff.

01:20:34.000 I take pretty high-dose fish oils.

01:20:38.000 I mean, there's pros and cons, and people will argue that.

01:20:41.000 I take 10 a day.

01:20:43.000 I take 10 pills a day.

01:20:44.000 10,000 milligrams.

01:20:45.000 And some people say that's overdoing it.

01:20:47.000 And probably Steve would say it's overdoing it.

01:20:48.000 I don't know.

01:20:49.000 But I work out like a madman.

01:20:51.000 And for me, it has a huge difference between when I take it and when I don't take it.

01:20:56.000 I just feel like I have less joint soreness, which is really important for me.

01:21:02.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:21:02.000 I would try what you're doing, but I eat like a fucking madman. 0.99

01:21:08.000 I don't see myself eating only a vegetable meal and then a meat meal. 1.00

01:21:13.000 I eat like a fucking pig, dude. 1.00

01:21:15.000 I don't know. 1.00

01:21:16.000 I always have.

01:21:17.000 I eat less bad things.

01:21:21.000 I eat very little sugar at this point in my life.

01:21:25.000 I will reward myself every now and then with some ice cream or a treat, but for the most part, I get all my sweets from fruits.

01:21:33.000 I very rarely indulge Somebody offers me candy or something like that.

01:21:38.000 Unless there's potting it.

01:21:40.000 I'll eat a pot candy.

01:21:41.000 Yeah, I'm not really into sugar myself other than eating fruit.

01:21:46.000 Some people say, well, how about the fructose?

01:21:48.000 But they forget that it's all bound with fiber.

01:21:52.000 Push up to this thing.

01:21:53.000 Yeah, there we go.

01:21:54.000 There we go.

01:21:55.000 And it slows down the digestion.

01:21:57.000 Yes.

01:21:57.000 So that you're not getting this big sugar rush or anything when you're eating raw, natural fruits.

01:22:02.000 Well, that's part of what's going on with this Bulletproof Coffee idea.

01:22:05.000 The idea, which apparently was originally invented by Rob Wolf.

01:22:09.000 I don't know if you know Rob Wolf.

01:22:10.000 Yeah, the paleo guy, sure.

01:22:11.000 Yeah, he was the guy who created it.

01:22:13.000 And Dave Asprey is the guy who sort of made it popular.

01:22:15.000 A lot of it because of being on the show.

01:22:17.000 But the grass-fed butter and MCT oil is what...

01:22:22.000 Slows down the digestion of the caffeine because it's blended up together with the coffee.

01:22:28.000 Because when I drink, I like black coffee.

01:22:31.000 I like to drink black coffee.

01:22:32.000 But man, the difference in like the wow, bang, wow, bang, there's a big difference in the spike and crash with that as opposed to this stuff, which is like a slow burn.

01:22:42.000 And that's Also, the same thing with eating fructose, which you get from an apple or from an orange.

01:22:48.000 It's like you're getting it in a natural way, and it's also, it's sort of a natural reward system.

01:22:53.000 Your body's getting this sweetness because you're ingesting all these nutrients.

01:22:57.000 Like your body's, it's letting you know, ooh, you feel that mouth pleasure? 1.00

01:23:00.000 Good, keep eating something stupid. 1.00

01:23:01.000 We need all that stuff. 0.99

01:23:02.000 You need the vitamin C, we need the fiber, we need the, you know, it's all good energy, good for your body, as opposed to this weird thing that we've invented where we figured out how to Never before in the history of man were there these type of frankenfruits.

01:23:31.000 But, I mean, even sugarcane.

01:23:33.000 I mean, have you ever actually eaten sugarcane?

01:23:36.000 I have.

01:23:37.000 I lived in Florida.

01:23:38.000 It's a whole different experience.

01:23:39.000 It's delicious.

01:23:40.000 Yeah, but, I mean, you don't get that rush.

01:23:42.000 Right.

01:23:43.000 Because it's...

01:23:44.000 What's a fruit?

01:23:45.000 It's bound up with all the other nutrients and fibers and so forth that you get in a whole food as opposed to a fractionated food.

01:23:54.000 Yeah, when I lived in Florida, me and my friends used to cut sugarcane down.

01:23:57.000 There was like a sugarcane field near our house that was University of Florida in Gainesville.

01:24:02.000 They had these, I don't know why they had sugarcane just growing there, but it wasn't like we were stealing it from anybody.

01:24:09.000 It was just growing there.

01:24:10.000 So we'd go and we'd cut it down and we'd just eat it.

01:24:13.000 And I guess it's not a fruit technically, because a fruit, you know, it's something that grows on a plant and you pluck it off the plant.

01:24:19.000 I guess it may be a grass, I believe, maybe.

01:24:21.000 Is that what it is?

01:24:22.000 Yeah, I think it's a grass.

01:24:23.000 Like tomato is technically a fruit, right?

01:24:25.000 Isn't that how it goes?

01:24:26.000 Like it's considered a vegetable, agriculturally it's considered a vegetable?

01:24:29.000 Yeah, I believe it is a fruit.

01:24:30.000 Like how it's taxed, I think, they consider it a vegetable, but it's a fruit.

01:24:35.000 But, you know, the diet, I mean, man seems to be able to adapt to any number of diets.

01:24:42.000 I don't know if you've ever heard of this guy, Weston Price, that went around the world.

01:24:45.000 He was looking at indigenous people.

01:24:47.000 This was a time earlier in the 1900s when there was indigenous people still around.

01:24:52.000 And he was looking for signs of health.

01:24:55.000 He was a dentist, so tooth health is a very good indicator of a person's overall health.

01:25:01.000 If you have rotten teeth, your general health is pretty poor.

01:25:05.000 I mean they've even linked gum disease to heart problems and all that kind of stuff.

01:25:10.000 So he went all over the world.

01:25:11.000 He was looking at every type of population possible.

01:25:14.000 The Inuit, the Polynesians, these different places.

01:25:19.000 And he came to the conclusion that man is a very adaptable creature.

01:25:23.000 There's any number of diets that a human being can thrive on quite healthfully.

01:25:28.000 But the thing that seemed to be commonplace to all these people was the purity of the food.

01:25:35.000 The naturalist of the food, the freshness of the food, and the lack of stress in their diets, and of course the exposure to sunlight and the vitamin D and so forth.

01:25:45.000 And I mean, in his estimation, the most magnificent of all the populations he studied were the Polynesians, who were living primarily on a starch-based diet, taro, and fish and coconut.

01:25:57.000 You were the first person to also set me hip to the idea of suntanning For conditioning, that sun tanning, the vitamin D levels get raised in your body and that – like when Georges St-Pierre would fight with a tan, that there's – it's not for vanity.

01:26:15.000 No, no, not at all.

01:26:16.000 It's – the tanning salons have gotten a bad rap because people go in there and bake themselves just like people bake themselves in the regular sun.

01:26:24.000 But if you go in with the idea of not going for the tan, per se, but to convert vitamin D in the skin, even if you're in a place like Iceland, for example, where you don't even get sun half the year, your body makes its own natural vitamin D. And you just go in for a few minutes, maybe four times a month,

01:26:39.000 and your body will make all the vitamin D you need.

01:26:43.000 It's a very anabolic nutrient.

01:26:46.000 It's absolutely essential for immunity and muscular growth and recovery, and it's really important.

01:26:53.000 I had no idea that athletes actually would tan just to raise their natural levels of vitamin D and to aid in their conditioning, though.

01:27:00.000 A lot of people don't even know about it.

01:27:02.000 But vitamin D actually even has kind of a steroid-like effect on your body.

01:27:08.000 It's very anabolic.

01:27:09.000 D3, right?

01:27:09.000 D3 is the big one.

01:27:11.000 Yeah, we had Dr. Rhonda Patrick on, who is just brilliant. 1.00

01:27:15.000 Found My Fitness is her name on...

01:27:17.000 On Twitter, and we're having her on again soon.

01:27:19.000 Fascinating, fascinating woman who is just really brilliant and knows a tremendous amount about the human body. 0.99

01:27:26.000 It's just a great resource for us to be able to ask her questions about, you know, what does this and why does that work and what is...

01:27:33.000 How did Carlos Gracie—he was the one who invented the Gracie diet, these combinatory foods.

01:27:39.000 How did he figure that out?

01:27:41.000 There was another Brazilian writer that talked a lot about food combining.

01:27:45.000 I actually read a translation of his book.

01:27:48.000 And there was a lot of food combining people at the time.

01:27:50.000 It was fairly well known back in the early 1900s.

01:27:54.000 This Dr. John Tilden I told you about, he wrote a book, Toxemia Explained.

01:27:59.000 But there was also Dr. Herbert M. Sheldon who wrote Food Combining Made Easy.

01:28:05.000 It was fairly common knowledge to a lot of the naturopaths and alternative medical people back in the day.

01:28:13.000 This is at a crossroads where the medical establishment was beginning to take over.

01:28:19.000 And they were in cahoots with the big pharmaceutical industry.

01:28:23.000 And this is at the time when the drug companies were really beginning to develop a lot of vaccines and drugs.

01:28:30.000 And that's when the Western medical model was all going towards the drug side.

01:28:36.000 And the chiropractors were getting pushed out, and alternative people were being pushed out.

01:28:42.000 Osteopathy, naturopaths, and so forth.

01:28:46.000 But I've done a lot of reading and research on my own, and I pretty much pulled away from Western Medical Model.

01:28:57.000 And I tried to do things as natural as I can.

01:29:01.000 I haven't been to a doctor, Joe, in probably about 40 years.

01:29:03.000 So you don't ever get your blood work done?

01:29:06.000 Nah, nah.

01:29:06.000 You just go based on how you feel?

01:29:08.000 And if you don't feel good, what do you do about it?

01:29:10.000 I fast.

01:29:12.000 Really?

01:29:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:29:12.000 Your body...

01:29:13.000 If you don't feel good, you fast.

01:29:15.000 Yeah, fast. 1.00

01:29:16.000 If you're feeling like shit, I'm like, oh man, I feel like shit. 0.99

01:29:18.000 I'm just not going to eat anything. 0.99

01:29:19.000 Well, see, in a fasting state, your body, it goes to the morbid or diseased tissues in the body.

01:29:25.000 In its wisdom, it doesn't go to muscle.

01:29:26.000 Really?

01:29:27.000 Yeah.

01:29:28.000 Whoa! 0.71

01:29:29.000 Your body is very wise.

01:29:32.000 So when you're not feeling well, it's usually digestive system related in some way.

01:29:38.000 And putting more food and burdening your body, people don't realize just what a burden digestion really is.

01:29:45.000 It takes a lot out of you to digest food.

01:29:47.000 Is that why people that have lower caloric diets or people that eat less generally live longer?

01:29:53.000 Well, for sure.

01:29:54.000 I mean, in many animal studies, they found that by systematically underfeeding animals, you prolong their lives a really, really long time.

01:30:01.000 You know, Rhonda Patrick, who I just mentioned, one of the things that she brought up was a study where they showed that it's actually a genetic transference that people who have survived through famine, their children actually live longer.

01:30:15.000 Like, the children of people who have had, like, less calories Their children actually have longer lifespans.

01:30:24.000 It's fascinating.

01:30:25.000 Well, if you look at animal husbandry, your prized bull, your prized stallion, your stud dog, they have relatively short lifespans.

01:30:36.000 The big, muscular bull, they feed these animals, they build a lot of mass.

01:30:41.000 They do not live very long at all.

01:30:44.000 It's because your system gets overtaxed to maintain all that muscle.

01:30:47.000 You become innervated.

01:30:49.000 You only have but a finite amount of energy, and it gets taxed.

01:30:54.000 You know, that's a big debate, the amount of muscle you should have as a martial artist.

01:30:58.000 That's a huge issue that comes up a lot.

01:31:02.000 It comes up a lot in my own commentary because I find it fascinating. 0.95

01:31:05.000 There's certain guys, like the guys like the Hector Lombards or the Tyron Woodleys, these really muscular, like abnormally muscular guys, who are fucking hell on wheels for a few minutes.

01:31:16.000 But they can't maintain a guy like, say, Diego Sanchez, a guy who's known for having fantastic endurance.

01:31:25.000 But Diego's worn a lot of guys out in that third round. 0.96

01:31:28.000 The third round is where Diego's the scariest motherfucker on earth because he's just as fresh as he was in the first. 0.92

01:31:33.000 Look at Jake Ellenberger, who's a natural welterweight, brutal knockout puncher, couldn't put Diego away. 0.95

01:31:38.000 By the time the third round came along, Diego's on his back, pounded on him when the last bell rang.

01:31:43.000 A lot of that can be attributed to his ability to keep up that same pace, that ruthless pace.

01:31:50.000 It doesn't have a lot of muscle.

01:31:51.000 Well, a lot of it has to do with the type of nervous system you were born with, whether it's an efficient nervous system or maybe not so efficient.

01:32:00.000 They call it neurological efficiency.

01:32:02.000 Guys with neurological efficiency are able to use a lot of their muscle fiber all at once.

01:32:06.000 So they're like power guys.

01:32:07.000 And guys that don't have neurological efficiency, they usually have a high anaerobic endurance level.

01:32:13.000 They just can go and go and go at a fairly high percentage.

01:32:16.000 Isn't that fascinating?

01:32:17.000 Like less efficient.

01:32:18.000 Yeah.

01:32:19.000 So they have less power.

01:32:20.000 They have less power.

01:32:22.000 Well, Hoist was a perfect example.

01:32:23.000 The guy had unbelievable endurance, but he didn't have a lot of fast twitch muscle fiber.

01:32:28.000 He was not a power guy.

01:32:31.000 And that's not something that you can change, is it?

01:32:33.000 No.

01:32:35.000 That's an inborn thing.

01:32:36.000 So a guy like Kevin Roundelman, never going to be a triathlete?

01:32:41.000 Never.

01:32:42.000 Never, never, never.

01:32:43.000 Just like most guys are never going to be a Kevin Roundelman.

01:32:46.000 And all this idea that you can do Olympic lifting and do selective recruitment of muscle fiber, that's a lot of nonsense, man.

01:32:52.000 I've been in this game for a long time, man.

01:32:54.000 I've never seen that.

01:32:56.000 You mean you've never seen someone who's got that ectomorphic sort of...

01:32:59.000 Explosively to make you more explosive on the mat.

01:33:02.000 It's a big mistake.

01:33:04.000 Doesn't do anything?

01:33:05.000 I mean, it must improve it somehow.

01:33:06.000 Well, I mean, any strength training, no matter how god-awful, is going to improve, especially beginners.

01:33:12.000 But as you become more advanced, man, that explosive weight training does more harm than good.

01:33:17.000 Take it to a guy that's 61 that's had every injury in the book.

01:33:22.000 Have you had disc injuries?

01:33:24.000 I have.

01:33:25.000 What have you done to fix those?

01:33:28.000 I did a lot of inversion training.

01:33:30.000 You know, I used to hang upside down a lot.

01:33:32.000 Yeah, I do that.

01:33:33.000 You know, I like that a lot.

01:33:34.000 Huge.

01:33:35.000 Of course, my rolfer helped me a lot.

01:33:36.000 I've had acupuncture to release some of the tension in the muscle.

01:33:41.000 I've done some kind of other interesting stuff.

01:33:45.000 I believe in the power of the subconscious mind to heal the body.

01:33:48.000 I do a lot of visualization and prayer and literally image myself getting better.

01:33:54.000 I believe that your mind and your subconscious mind is in control of every cell in the body and that if you can get rid of any disbeliefs, your higher mind can actually influence healing in your body.

01:34:08.000 Well, that's super unscientific, but bold of you to talk about.

01:34:13.000 Because you're a fairly scientific guy.

01:34:15.000 There's a lot we don't know.

01:34:17.000 There's a very interesting book out right now.

01:34:19.000 I would encourage your listeners to check it out.

01:34:22.000 It's called The Healing Code.

01:34:23.000 They talk a lot about how...

01:34:25.000 The Healing Code.

01:34:26.000 The Healing Code.

01:34:26.000 Who wrote that?

01:34:27.000 Do you know?

01:34:29.000 Let me see.

01:34:30.000 Johnson, a guy by the name of Johnson.

01:34:31.000 There's an MD and a PhD that actually wrote the book.

01:34:34.000 And they talk about it in the relationship to physics and how belief systems absolutely affect molecules.

01:34:44.000 Well, they absolutely affect so many different aspects of your body.

01:34:48.000 And for anyone who doubts that, the placebo effect is measurable.

01:34:52.000 I mean, the placebo effect is nothing more than your brain thinking that it's got the cure.

01:34:58.000 So it reacts as if it's got the cure and then things get better.

01:35:02.000 I mean, measurable amounts.

01:35:05.000 Yeah, I mean it's amazing how many studies have shown the placebo effect.

01:35:09.000 It all comes down to belief system and believing in yourself and believing that you have the power to heal.

01:35:15.000 I mean I don't know whether you're religious or not, but I mean you hear about the miracles of Christ and you hear the miracles of other prophets and so forth.

01:35:24.000 I mean it's documented that a lot of these things happen. 0.94

01:35:28.000 I don't buy into anything that's old when it comes to documentation of certain acts because it's so difficult to find out what the fuck actually happened.

01:35:38.000 I find religious texts to be fascinating and enlightening in a lot of ways.

01:35:43.000 I think you can learn a lot about what they learned about wisdom, what they learned about the correct path to living a happy, healthy life, but a lot of those principles, you know, the golden rules of I think?

01:36:16.000 Boy, what really happened?

01:36:18.000 You're talking about thousands of years of stories and over a thousand years before anybody wrote anything down.

01:36:25.000 You know, stories over the campfire.

01:36:28.000 Most of the things that were written down were several centuries after the fact.

01:36:33.000 So, yeah, I agree.

01:36:34.000 But I have...

01:36:37.000 During the late 1800s, early 1900s, there was a movement in the United States and through Europe called the New Thought Where people begin to realize that thoughts are things.

01:36:48.000 It's an energy form.

01:36:49.000 And that when you think things and especially when you say things, you're actually putting energy into action.

01:36:56.000 It's the law of attraction.

01:36:58.000 So you're basically attracting what you're putting out.

01:37:01.000 I mean that's been long understood in physics.

01:37:04.000 That's basically what Einstein was talking about.

01:37:09.000 In what way was he talking about that?

01:37:10.000 Well, for every action, there's a reaction.

01:37:13.000 If you're putting out negative thinking, negative statements, you can only attract saying it's virtually impossible for any good to come from bad.

01:37:24.000 Well, it's funny how that sounds so simplistic.

01:37:27.000 It sounds very simplistic. 0.98

01:37:29.000 But anybody who doubts that, run into people that go, oh, fucking nothing good ever happens to me. 0.98

01:37:34.000 Those people, you're right, nothing good ever happens to you. 0.98

01:37:37.000 You have this mindset, and then you run into people that say, hey, we're going to work through this, we're going to figure it out, and this is only going to make us better and stronger.

01:37:45.000 Let's keep pushing forward.

01:37:46.000 Those people seem to always prosper.

01:37:48.000 And I don't know whether or not luck is involved.

01:37:51.000 I don't know whether or not it's all just your attitude.

01:37:53.000 But I do know that the people that have that great attitude, I feel better when I'm around them and it empowers me and I feel like it enables me to also spread that empowerment onto other folks.

01:38:06.000 Well, it's a whole energy.

01:38:07.000 You know, it's like guys, oh, I can't afford this, I can't afford that.

01:38:10.000 You're right.

01:38:11.000 You can't.

01:38:12.000 It's like going into a fight and you already thought you'd lose.

01:38:15.000 You're going to lose, man.

01:38:17.000 No fighter goes into a fight believing that he's going to lose the fight. 1.00

01:38:20.000 If he does go in, he's pretty much going to get his ass kicked. 1.00

01:38:24.000 That said, if you're some guy who's not very good but you've got this crazy belief in yourself and you fight John fucking Jones, you're still going to get your ass kicked. 1.00

01:38:33.000 It only works up to a certain point. 0.99

01:38:34.000 It only works up to a certain point because then there's other factors that come into play.

01:38:38.000 Yeah, there's a lot of factors.

01:38:39.000 The positive belief system has to be grounded in reality.

01:38:43.000 Yes, right.

01:38:44.000 That is a big factor.

01:38:46.000 Obviously, if somehow I could be convinced that I could fly and I'd jump off this building, I'm going to get a splat.

01:38:52.000 Yeah, and the people that are into The Secret will tell you, you didn't really believe.

01:38:58.000 Well, who knows, man.

01:39:01.000 My belief system doesn't go past a certain point, but maybe that's my limiting factor.

01:39:07.000 But I do know when it comes to the body, you have an amazing capacity for self-healing.

01:39:13.000 And I've actually undergone it with my own body.

01:39:17.000 Well, the people that really truly believe that we are, in some way or another, The vehicle of God, that's sort of what they point to, that we manifest our reality with our own mind and our own intent and with our own actions and our own thoughts,

01:39:36.000 and that as we grow and as we evolve and as we get stronger and stronger with our consciousness and our ability to understand this, that we enact those powers more freely, more consciously, and that our intent truly does create the very universe around us.

01:39:52.000 It sounds a little ridiculous, but then when you start and think how much of an effect human beings have on the environment, how much of an effect human beings have on Earth, and when you stop and think about all the bad things that go on on Earth, whether it's war or pollution, well, what is that?

01:40:08.000 It's like there's this lack of attention and a lack of intent on the important aspects of harmonious relationships with your environment.

01:40:19.000 Let's take just one small example of how my belief system works about this.

01:40:25.000 There's this one thing called the accumulation mindset, I call it.

01:40:29.000 I work online with people on fat loss programs.

01:40:35.000 When you really look at their lifestyle, they're into this accumulation mode of just buying and amassing all this stuff.

01:40:41.000 I've been in some people's homes where the shelves are just littered with stuff they never use or don't need.

01:40:48.000 They just have so much stuff.

01:40:50.000 The attic is full of stuff.

01:40:51.000 The garage is full of stuff.

01:40:52.000 But they keep buying more and more, adding, adding, adding, adding.

01:40:56.000 Their bodies reflect this type of belief system.

01:40:58.000 And for sure, they're adding more cells under their body.

01:41:02.000 Just indulgent.

01:41:02.000 Just indulgent, you know?

01:41:04.000 And then they find themselves overeating, eating more than their fair share of the natural resources of the universe, taking more in.

01:41:12.000 I mean, it's just like this whole belief system in accumulation.

01:41:16.000 Like, I need to add.

01:41:18.000 I need to add.

01:41:19.000 It's all subconscious, of course.

01:41:20.000 No one goes into it, you know...

01:41:22.000 Yeah, I have friends that are overweight, and when I watch them sometimes eat, I almost see, like, a person who's, like, consuming a drug. 0.99

01:41:29.000 You know, you see them, like, they know they shouldn't have it, but they're like, fuck it, give it to me. 0.98

01:41:33.000 Ah, relief. 0.99

01:41:35.000 You know, and I don't know what it is, whether it's a distraction from their own mortality, whether it's just some sort of a weird...

01:41:42.000 Hitch in the system of the way the mind interacts with the world, like it's just too much stress and too many variables, and they need something to sort of inject them out of that, so they focus entirely on an ice cream sundae. 0.97

01:41:55.000 Knowing that they shouldn't even have it, go, fuck it, we're going to have it anyway. 0.98

01:41:59.000 And so by doing that, you sort of block off all your awareness and just funnel that stuff down your fucking piehole until you're It's like an addiction to the pleasure senses of the body. 1.00

01:42:10.000 You get that little drug-like response in the brain for a moment in time when you eat this kind of stuff. 0.98

01:42:16.000 So you get that little chemical reward that the brain puts out for having this big thing of sugar or whatever.

01:42:22.000 You get that rush.

01:42:24.000 But then that's quickly replaced with either disgust or self-loathing.

01:42:29.000 Yes.

01:42:29.000 But it sets up another cycle because now you get depressed again.

01:42:33.000 But you need that little brain reward and man, it can be pretty tough.

01:42:38.000 It really parallels with gambling addiction, right?

01:42:40.000 Yeah.

01:42:41.000 Well, I mean, food addiction is very, very common.

01:42:43.000 I mean, if you think about it, you can kick cigarettes.

01:42:46.000 You can kick most drugs.

01:42:48.000 Cigarettes are tough for most people.

01:42:50.000 One of the toughest things to give up is that nicotine.

01:42:52.000 But any drug you can give up, you can get off alcohol, all those things, right?

01:42:56.000 But you don't need those things.

01:42:58.000 But you do need to eat.

01:43:00.000 Food addiction is very common and it's the toughest one to give up because you can never not eat nicotine.

01:43:06.000 That's a very good point.

01:43:07.000 It's a very good way of putting it.

01:43:08.000 I don't think I've ever heard anybody put it that way.

01:43:11.000 That's such an important way to describe it.

01:43:14.000 Because you're always going to...

01:43:16.000 It's like if you were a heroin addict and you go, okay, I can't just shoot up until I pass out. 0.67

01:43:21.000 I'm just going to shoot a little bit. 0.97

01:43:23.000 Keep me happy.

01:43:25.000 Yeah.

01:43:26.000 I mean, that's really similar.

01:43:27.000 You need it.

01:43:27.000 You need food.

01:43:28.000 And if you're addicted to food and you need food...

01:43:31.000 Yeah, I've had friends that lost a lot of weight and they look great.

01:43:34.000 Like, oh, you look great.

01:43:35.000 You lost all this weight.

01:43:35.000 And...

01:43:36.000 A year later.

01:43:37.000 So easy to do.

01:43:38.000 Well, think of it as a species.

01:43:40.000 Our survival depended on our ability to lay down a rapid layer of body fat.

01:43:44.000 We were programmed to overeat and eat as much as possible because food was not very prevalent.

01:43:50.000 Right.

01:43:51.000 Now in this modern society with food so easily to get, I mean, our genetics actually work against us.

01:43:59.000 That's probably why sex addiction exists as well, too.

01:44:03.000 It was hard for human beings to breed and even harder for them to stay alive, so it was imperative that we breed as much as possible to spread the population as far as possible. 0.97

01:44:13.000 And so that pleasure-reward system that's in place to make sure that you keep breeding A hiccup gets thrown into it when you inject it into modern society where you don't really have as many issues about breeding, but you still have this genetic impulse to constantly need to fuck and spread your seed. 1.00

01:44:35.000 Stuff your face, breed. 1.00

01:44:36.000 But I don't get the gambling one. 0.98

01:44:38.000 The gambling one's a weird one, right?

01:44:40.000 Where the hell did that one come from?

01:44:41.000 That's still a brain reward.

01:44:43.000 You get that rush, that excitement.

01:44:45.000 But why?

01:44:46.000 I guess to take risks and the rewards?

01:44:50.000 Well, these guys need to get out and do a sport and replace it with that.

01:44:53.000 But instead, they get it from the rush of putting it all in the line.

01:44:59.000 But, you know, well, I mean, think of some of the adrenaline sports like rock climbing.

01:45:03.000 Some of these crazy dudes like climbing without safety harnesses or ropes.

01:45:07.000 Alex Hanold.

01:45:08.000 We had him on the podcast.

01:45:09.000 We had the craziest of all.

01:45:11.000 Who was the kid that just died?

01:45:13.000 The one free climber just died recently.

01:45:15.000 I don't know.

01:45:16.000 Who died?

01:45:17.000 There was a guy that was written in Outside Magazine.

01:45:19.000 They did a little tribute to this guy.

01:45:21.000 I hope it's not Alex. 0.97

01:45:22.000 I would have heard if Alex died because he's the craziest of all of them. 0.75

01:45:26.000 We had him on the podcast.

01:45:27.000 He's the most mellow kid ever.

01:45:29.000 But think about the base jumping, those two crazy dudes that jumped off that tower in Dubai, you know?

01:45:35.000 But that's the type of, you know, adrenaline rush.

01:45:38.000 But, you know, guys like you and me, we get that going on the mat, you know?

01:45:43.000 Yeah.

01:45:44.000 Yeah, I think that is a big thing, the pushing yourself and the reward of...

01:45:50.000 And that's the difference between a martial art as well.

01:45:52.000 Really, in my opinion, the difference in jiu-jitsu as opposed to all the other martial arts because...

01:45:58.000 I enjoyed kickboxing and I enjoyed taekwondo.

01:46:01.000 I enjoyed competing.

01:46:04.000 I certainly got a lot out of it.

01:46:05.000 It certainly shaped me as a man, but I never felt good when I knocked somebody out.

01:46:10.000 I always felt weird.

01:46:11.000 To the body wasn't that bad.

01:46:13.000 It didn't bother me that much.

01:46:14.000 But man, when I would head kick guys and watch them fold, it was a terrible feeling.

01:46:19.000 Pretty sickening.

01:46:20.000 I've never enjoyed it.

01:46:21.000 I never felt good.

01:46:22.000 And even worse when you get head kicked.

01:46:24.000 Yeah, way worse.

01:46:26.000 I got lucky.

01:46:27.000 I got stopped only once in my entire career.

01:46:30.000 And it was a kickboxing bout.

01:46:32.000 And it was more out of exhaustion than anything.

01:46:34.000 It was the third fight in the night.

01:46:36.000 I won my first one by KO. I won my second one.

01:46:40.000 It was a...

01:46:44.000 It was because you fought three times in a night.

01:46:46.000 So there were two round fights. 0.68

01:46:47.000 So first one I won by KO. Second one was just, I kicked the guy's ass. 1.00

01:46:52.000 But then I had a long period of break between the second fight and the third. 0.99

01:46:56.000 And I was just fucking exhausted. 0.96

01:46:57.000 And I was kind of sick too. 0.99

01:46:59.000 And then I got hit with a left hook in the second round.

01:47:02.000 My legs just gave out.

01:47:03.000 But I was conscious.

01:47:04.000 It was nothing bad.

01:47:06.000 It was like...

01:47:06.000 And that was the last fight I had.

01:47:08.000 And I was in the middle of like doing comedy and competing at the same time.

01:47:11.000 I was saying, you know what?

01:47:12.000 If I can get out of this with... 0.99

01:47:13.000 Think about all the shit that I did to people. 0.99

01:47:15.000 If I can get out of it with just one left hook to the face. 0.99

01:47:17.000 Because my instinct initially was, I'm not going out on a loss. 1.00

01:47:20.000 Fuck that. 1.00

01:47:20.000 I'm coming back. 1.00

01:47:21.000 I'm going to find that guy. 1.00

01:47:22.000 I'm going to beat the fuck out of him. 1.00

01:47:23.000 I'm going to... 1.00

01:47:23.000 And my initial instinct was to start training like a fucking madman. 1.00

01:47:27.000 Abandon comedy. 1.00

01:47:28.000 But that was emotional.

01:47:29.000 Within a week or two, I sort of realized I have a different...

01:47:32.000 I realized I had a different goal, too.

01:47:35.000 That I changed the way I train.

01:47:38.000 And I wasn't training like I was when I was younger.

01:47:41.000 And when I was completely obsessed with competition, now I had all these different requirements.

01:47:46.000 I was now no longer living with my parents.

01:47:48.000 Now I was feeding myself and I was working and I was worried about my future.

01:47:52.000 I was like, what am I going to do for a living?

01:47:54.000 Like, what am I doing here?

01:47:55.000 I'm teaching.

01:47:55.000 There's not much money in that.

01:47:57.000 What am I doing? 0.99

01:47:58.000 I'm going to be a kickboxer and get fucking brain damaged? 0.99

01:48:01.000 So it was all these very... 0.97

01:48:02.000 So I was terrified that I was going to run into me when I was 19 who was just a psycho that just trained constantly and lived at home and didn't have many bills and just every day I'd get up and run hills and stairs and just all I was thinking of was I got to do things that other people aren't doing because that way I'll win,

01:48:19.000 you know?

01:48:19.000 And I wasn't doing that anymore.

01:48:21.000 So I kind of recognized it.

01:48:22.000 So I was like, if I can get away with one loss like that, like that kind of loss, we're good.

01:48:26.000 Because I didn't want anybody kicking me the way I kicked people.

01:48:31.000 I've seen it happen to friends, too.

01:48:34.000 My friend Larry, he was a little bit older than me.

01:48:39.000 I think I was 18. We went to this tournament, and he fought this Canadian national champion, this guy named Jersey Long.

01:48:44.000 And he got hit with an axe kick in the head.

01:48:47.000 And I'll never forget it.

01:48:48.000 I'll never forget watching this guy whip his leg up like more than a split and slam that heel down on my friend's face and he just crumpled.

01:48:59.000 And I was like, that is just not something I ever want to happen to me.

01:49:03.000 It's a pretty brutal way to make a living.

01:49:05.000 And when you do it to somebody, it doesn't feel good.

01:49:06.000 When you choke someone out in jiu-jitsu and they tap, it doesn't feel bad at all.

01:49:10.000 No.

01:49:11.000 It's the difference then.

01:49:12.000 Yeah, you're not hurting them.

01:49:13.000 I've never broken anybody's arm.

01:49:14.000 I mean, I've never, in class, I've never, I mean...

01:49:18.000 I've seen guys get injured accidentally.

01:49:20.000 Knees blow out and stuff like that.

01:49:21.000 But it's always an accident.

01:49:24.000 It's never an intentional thing, at least on my behalf.

01:49:27.000 So I never felt bad about it.

01:49:29.000 So I got all that...

01:49:30.000 The competition, the thrill, the energy, the excitement, all the charge, the adrenaline, without any of the bad karma feelings that you get from kicking somebody.

01:49:40.000 There's something about that kind of competition where you have to put your humanity aside in order to compete in a mixed martial arts.

01:49:52.000 That's why I tell people, Like, when people come to me for advice about fighting, while I'm thinking about fighting, well, stop right there. 0.99

01:49:58.000 Because if you're just thinking about it, don't fucking do it. 0.99

01:50:01.000 Don't do it. 0.99

01:50:01.000 Okay? 0.99

01:50:02.000 If you have to be completely obsessed, and if you're not completely obsessed, you're going to fight someone who is. 1.00

01:50:09.000 And you're going to get fucking killed. 0.98

01:50:10.000 Think about someone who's not completely obsessed fighting Vanderlei Silva in his prime. 1.00

01:50:15.000 Just imagine that.

01:50:16.000 Okay?

01:50:17.000 And then do you want that to happen to you?

01:50:18.000 No.

01:50:19.000 Then don't do it.

01:50:19.000 But if you want to be Vanderlei Silva, if that's your destiny...

01:50:23.000 Then do it. 0.93

01:50:24.000 But unless that's your destiny, unless that is you, and I don't know what the fuck anybody, I don't know what makes someone want to be a folk singer. 0.98

01:50:30.000 I don't get it. 0.97

01:50:31.000 I don't understand.

01:50:32.000 Someone has it in their head to get up every morning and do macrame, and that's what they want to do.

01:50:37.000 I would never discourage it, but you must have that in your head if you want to be a fighter.

01:50:43.000 You have to only have that in your head.

01:50:45.000 If you have anything in your head, any doubts, if you have any problem with giving people concussions, get out.

01:50:50.000 Don't do it.

01:50:52.000 Because you're going to run into...

01:50:53.000 I don't believe in dabbling and fighting.

01:50:55.000 You cannot do it.

01:50:58.000 Like you say, the risk-to-benefit ratio of that type of It's just terrible.

01:51:08.000 So when you've had injuries and you've done what you say is prayer and meditation and focusing, what is the process?

01:51:16.000 Do you put yourself in a certain particular state when you're trying to heal something?

01:51:20.000 How do you go about doing it?

01:51:22.000 There was a really famous guy by the name of Neville Goddard who wrote about the power of visualization.

01:51:28.000 A lot of it has to do with visualization, visualizing yourself as whole, as being well.

01:51:36.000 We're all born with this perfect DNA blueprint, but then we get skewed somehow as we get older or through injuries and so forth.

01:51:44.000 So I try to visualize being like that perfect little kid that had full mobility and ability to move and so forth.

01:51:52.000 And there's a step-by-step process.

01:51:54.000 You literally generate the feeling of being that.

01:51:58.000 Fighters do this all the time.

01:52:00.000 Or great athletes like John McEnroe or somebody.

01:52:05.000 They had this power to visualize themselves in certain situations and prevailing or winning.

01:52:14.000 In all walks of life.

01:52:16.000 Well, I certainly know.

01:52:17.000 People use visualization whether they know it or not.

01:52:20.000 Even if they're unconscious of it, they're still using it.

01:52:22.000 Yeah, there's certain folks that just, they have super confidence and I only see myself winning.

01:52:26.000 But there's other folks, like I know Frank Shamrock talked about that a lot, that he used to go through, he was a big proponent of visualization.

01:52:33.000 And when he was in his prime, he would go through all these different scenarios and see himself winning.

01:52:38.000 Go through all these different scenarios.

01:52:39.000 A lot of people, you know, don't give Frank Shamrock enough credit.

01:52:42.000 Like back in the day, Frank was the original Well-balanced mixed martial artists.

01:52:47.000 I mean, he was a fantastic fighter.

01:52:49.000 I never forget that match he had with Zinovia, man.

01:52:51.000 Oh, yeah.

01:52:52.000 Oh, man.

01:52:53.000 Yeah, that was a quick one. 0.99

01:52:54.000 You know, that was a crazy slam and he broke his collarbone and fucked him up. 0.96

01:52:58.000 Just that devastating double leg pickup throw he did was like... 0.99

01:53:01.000 Frank was an animal.

01:53:02.000 Yeah, well, how about when he beat Kevin Jackson with that armbar in Japan to win the title?

01:53:07.000 Part of the time he beat, who was the bad boy?

01:53:12.000 Tito Ortiz.

01:53:13.000 Tito Ortiz.

01:53:13.000 He out-cardioed him.

01:53:14.000 And not only that, he was way smaller than Tito.

01:53:16.000 And, you know, he used jiu-jitsu.

01:53:18.000 He basically was repeatedly taken down by Tito Ortiz, used the guard as good as any jiu-jitsu guy I've ever seen, would get back to his feet.

01:53:26.000 Tito got tired taking him down.

01:53:28.000 Yep.

01:53:28.000 And he couldn't do anything with him because he used beautiful guard work.

01:53:32.000 I was shocked at how good his jiu-jitsu was.

01:53:34.000 Well, that was an important fight for MMA as well because that was an important fight where people understood the benefit and the need for cardio because Frank had tremendous cardio.

01:53:44.000 Frank was also training with Maurice Smith who was a huge, huge cardio fiend.

01:53:50.000 Maurice would swim.

01:53:51.000 He was an animal.

01:53:52.000 He would put those weird paddle things on your hands and just do lap after lap.

01:53:57.000 And that's how he wound up beating Mark Coleman.

01:53:59.000 Same strategy.

01:54:00.000 Mark Coleman took him down over and over again.

01:54:02.000 Maurice defended while he was on the bottom.

01:54:04.000 And then eventually got up and he was fresh still because his cardio was so good.

01:54:08.000 Mark was exhausted. 0.97

01:54:10.000 Then Maurice started kicking the shit out of his legs. 0.99

01:54:12.000 You know, Maurice implied that strategy many times. 0.99

01:54:16.000 And, you know, I think Frank learned a lot from Maurice in that respect too.

01:54:21.000 But that fight was a big...

01:54:23.000 When you think about how young MMA was back then, I mean, when did he fight Tito?

01:54:28.000 Was that 96 or something like that?

01:54:30.000 Somewhere around there?

01:54:30.000 Yeah, it was really in the early days.

01:54:32.000 Really in the early days.

01:54:33.000 So three or four years into the UFC. No, it must have been after 96 because I was there for Tito's first fight, which was 97. I was there...

01:54:42.000 Wes Alburton, I think he fought.

01:54:45.000 He came in as an alternate.

01:54:47.000 I was there.

01:54:47.000 I interviewed him.

01:54:48.000 I think he was 19 at the time.

01:54:50.000 And...

01:54:51.000 And he won in that fight, and then he got submitted by Guy Metzger.

01:54:56.000 Guy Metzger caught him in a guillotine.

01:54:58.000 And then he went on to, when he fought Frank Shamrock, after that fight, he became a cardio machine.

01:55:06.000 Cardio machine, yeah.

01:55:07.000 And he taught a lot of guys that.

01:55:09.000 Like, when I talked to Kendall Grove, after Kendall did Tom on The Ultimate Fighter, he came out like a much improved fighter.

01:55:14.000 And one of the things that he said to me, Kendall said, I learned from Tito that cardio is everything.

01:55:19.000 You know, these guys learn.

01:55:20.000 It can't be everything.

01:55:20.000 So we saw that growth, you know.

01:55:22.000 We saw these guys learning.

01:55:26.000 Well, I don't know whether I ever told you this, but I was one of the original investors in the UFC. My ex-wife and I, D.C. Maxwell, yes.

01:55:33.000 Horry and Gracie put that first UFC together in a shoestring budget in Denver.

01:55:37.000 Wow.

01:55:38.000 And he was going around to all his friends, and we were all kicking in a little bit of money, and I had a little extra money saved up.

01:55:43.000 I actually had a retirement account as a school teacher, and I had some money sitting in the bank.

01:55:47.000 I said, sure.

01:55:48.000 And so he went to like a whole bunch of different people, put it together in a shoestring, and thus was born that first UFC. And he wanted to use it as a showcase to show the superiority of jiu-jitsu or basically what happens to you if you don't know how to fight on the ground.

01:56:03.000 And then he picked the most unlikely guy because he could add Hickson, who was just a stud.

01:56:08.000 But he was afraid that people said, well, that's Hickson.

01:56:11.000 Look at the physique.

01:56:12.000 Look at the athleticism.

01:56:13.000 He wanted to pick Hoyce, who was a really nice kid, pretty thin, wasn't particularly strong.

01:56:19.000 He was a perfect guy to showcase the technique of jiu-jitsu.

01:56:23.000 There's also what I'd heard was that he couldn't control Hickson and that he didn't like that.

01:56:28.000 Hickson was a bit of a wild man.

01:56:31.000 Yeah, he's his own man.

01:56:32.000 Still is.

01:56:33.000 He wasn't going to tell him what to do, man.

01:56:34.000 Still is.

01:56:35.000 And Hoyce was a very young, naive kid.

01:56:38.000 He pretty much listened to what Horian told him to do.

01:56:42.000 And it just makes it amazing what he did in those first UFCs.

01:56:46.000 But the big difference was the no gloves.

01:56:49.000 Mm-hmm.

01:56:50.000 Everyone was breaking their hands.

01:56:52.000 And I'm telling you, you take the gloves off, you would still see wrestlers and jiu-jitsu guys win almost every fight.

01:56:58.000 But for the average audience, I think it would be boring.

01:57:01.000 They want to see the spectacular knockouts.

01:57:05.000 You're not going to get the spectacular knockouts with the bare fists like you would with those gloves.

01:57:09.000 You would with knees and you would with kicks though.

01:57:12.000 Muay Thai has advanced tremendously though.

01:57:15.000 We had Orlando Veet, who's like one of the best early guys, striker guys, who's a really high-level kickboxer who was in the early UFCs.

01:57:23.000 But I agree with you, you wouldn't see nearly as much punching to the face.

01:57:28.000 Your hands break. 0.78

01:57:29.000 All guys would have to do is just duck their head down, you hit their forehead. 1.00

01:57:32.000 You know, if you want to punch me in the forehead, shit, go ahead. 1.00

01:57:35.000 Go for it. 1.00

01:57:35.000 That used to be Hickson's strategy and self-defense. 1.00

01:57:38.000 You know, he'd just like headbutt the hand.

01:57:40.000 Yeah.

01:57:40.000 It's pretty much done, man.

01:57:42.000 But the other thing, too, was with the no time limit thing that they had back in those days, you know, where you just go and go.

01:57:47.000 That was very terrifying for a lot of guys.

01:57:50.000 Oh, yeah.

01:57:50.000 It's like, oh, my God.

01:57:51.000 You know, I feel my gas going and people are just literally...

01:57:54.000 And you can't recover.

01:57:55.000 ...panic.

01:57:56.000 Yeah, there's no sitting on a stool, ice bag on the back of your neck, have a sip of water, somebody's picking your feet up, relaxing your legs, none of that. 0.97

01:58:03.000 You know, you just got a fucking Mark Kerr on top of you, dropping elbows on your face. 0.99

01:58:07.000 They had the hair pull and they had the punching to the testicles. 1.00

01:58:10.000 I mean, it was, it really was, it really is amazing what Hoyce accomplished when you think about that. 0.58

01:58:17.000 The guy fought three or four times in one night.

01:58:19.000 Gee! 0.97

01:58:20.000 It's impossible to underestimate, to under-emphasize it.

01:58:24.000 I mean, or over-emphasize it.

01:58:27.000 What an amazing thing he accomplished.

01:58:29.000 It really truly is.

01:58:31.000 And that fight he had with Matt Hughes, that wasn't the same Hoist Gracie, you know?

01:58:35.000 I mean, that was pretty much him past his prime.

01:58:38.000 In addition to wearing gloves and not wearing the key, I mean, it was just everything.

01:58:43.000 I know he must have felt incredibly uncomfortable in that particular fight, you know?

01:58:48.000 Well, he was also fighting a monster. 0.60

01:58:50.000 And Matt Hughes is a monster.

01:58:51.000 And he was fighting a monster at 175 pounds.

01:58:54.000 He didn't want to lose the weight. 0.98

01:58:56.000 So he let Matt Hughes be even fucking bigger. 0.99

01:58:58.000 And Matt Hughes is a goddamn gorilla and has really good jiu-jitsu. 0.99

01:59:02.000 Matt Hughes out jiu-jitsu to him. 0.99

01:59:04.000 I mean, that was the thing about what Matt Hughes did to him in that fight. 0.98

01:59:07.000 He took Hoist's fucking back, flattened him out, was pounding on him. 0.97

01:59:10.000 The fight ended with Matt Hughes having both of his hooks in on top of him. 0.99

01:59:14.000 He was in classy jiu-jitsu.

01:59:16.000 What Hoist did to guys thousands of times.

01:59:18.000 He was a gorilla.

01:59:20.000 Matt Hughes back then was a gorilla.

01:59:22.000 He had these neck muscles.

01:59:24.000 Like, you look at the back of his neck, it's like he's got two kielbasas. 0.99

01:59:29.000 Not even kielbasas, like one of those really fat salamis, you know, that go from the base of the spine outward towards the traps. 1.00

01:59:37.000 He's such a fucking animal with good technique. 1.00

01:59:40.000 With good technique. 1.00

01:59:41.000 Great technique, by the way.

01:59:42.000 Some of the guys, some of the sparring partners, I saw like a video clip, It was like a who's who of high level jiu-jitsu guys.

01:59:50.000 And he was more than handling himself in the jiu-jitsu room.

01:59:54.000 Yeah, and he'd already been through scraps with guys like BJ Penn.

01:59:57.000 He had trained on a regular basis with really, really high-level guys, both at Pat Militich's and other gyms.

02:00:04.000 He had guys to train with him.

02:00:08.000 He was constantly around guys that were really, really high-level, and he was being pushed in title fights.

02:00:14.000 He was being pushed, and Hoyce had been out of the game for quite a while.

02:00:18.000 But boy, did that sell.

02:00:20.000 Everybody wanted to see it.

02:00:22.000 Everyone wanted to see it.

02:00:23.000 But to me, it was kind of sad.

02:00:27.000 It was.

02:00:27.000 Well, you know.

02:00:28.000 Hoist was a real hero to me.

02:00:30.000 I just hated to see.

02:00:31.000 Because people sort of undermined him.

02:00:34.000 I see.

02:00:36.000 UFC has become so much more sophisticated.

02:00:40.000 Look, there's old ones.

02:00:41.000 You can never hang with these guys.

02:00:43.000 That's not true at all, man.

02:00:44.000 It was just...

02:00:45.000 Well, it would have been really interesting to see Hoist in his prime with the Gi versus Matt Hughes.

02:00:50.000 That would have been really interesting.

02:00:51.000 That would have been an interesting fight, man.

02:00:52.000 Yeah, it would have been interesting.

02:00:53.000 But it's also, you've got to realize that one of the reasons why Matt Hughes was so good is that Matt Hughes had benefited from all the lessons that we had all learned from Hoist.

02:01:02.000 Sure, sure.

02:01:02.000 From Hoist entering into UFC 1, UFC 2, and then, of course, Jeremy Horn, who was training all the time with Matt, who was a huge student of the game and one of the most technical guys.

02:01:11.000 Like, Jeremy Horn is a perfect example because Jeremy is a really smart guy, no ego, who has a body that is just, there's nothing super powerful or unusually athletic, nothing extra long about him, just excellent technique and intelligence.

02:01:27.000 And he worked a lot with Matt.

02:01:29.000 Matt got to You know, learned a lot of techniques from him.

02:01:32.000 The BJ Penn fights.

02:01:33.000 Of course, BJ Penn, Mundial's champion.

02:01:35.000 One of the best jiu-jitsu guys ever.

02:01:37.000 One of the best guys ever.

02:01:38.000 And so, Matt had, you know, the game passed toys up.

02:01:42.000 You know, things had changed.

02:01:43.000 And his body wasn't the same.

02:01:45.000 It became, yeah, it became a real bonafide sport.

02:01:47.000 I think there's early...

02:01:49.000 Early UFCs were pretty much like real fights, like street fights.

02:01:52.000 Yeah.

02:01:52.000 You know how they used to try out for this?

02:01:55.000 This is crazy, man.

02:01:57.000 I was actually called into the ballroom by Horan one time.

02:02:00.000 They had guys trying out for the UFC in the ballroom.

02:02:03.000 They'd get Hilli and Gracie, and they would have a couple other Gracie family. 0.93

02:02:08.000 They would put on knee pads and fight in these hotel ballrooms.

02:02:14.000 Whoa.

02:02:14.000 Yeah.

02:02:15.000 Fight.

02:02:15.000 Bare knuckle.

02:02:16.000 They would just go, man.

02:02:17.000 Wow.

02:02:18.000 It was like, oh my god.

02:02:19.000 To find out if a guy's any good.

02:02:20.000 Like this old Gracie in action tape, to find out if the guy was any good, you know?

02:02:24.000 Well, you know, the early Ultimate Fighters, you know what they have?

02:02:27.000 They would have a guy, they had guys fight in the early Ultimate Fighters that had no fights.

02:02:31.000 Zero.

02:02:32.000 And they would get those guys and they would have them hit the pads.

02:02:36.000 They'd have a guy hold the tie pads for them.

02:02:37.000 Oh, okay, guy's got some striking technique.

02:02:39.000 They'd have him roll a little bit.

02:02:41.000 Okay, looks like he can roll.

02:02:42.000 Get in there! 0.99

02:02:42.000 And then they'd put him on the Ultimate Fighter. 0.99

02:02:44.000 I mean, there's quite a few guys that they had that did that.

02:02:46.000 In the early Ultimate Fighter.

02:02:48.000 Yeah.

02:02:48.000 Of course, as the show evolved, like all things, now you're getting guys like Uriah Hall.

02:02:52.000 They come into the Ultimate Fighter already a killer, just lighting guys on fire when they get in there.

02:02:58.000 Fascinating, fascinating to be a part of the evolution of all that.

02:03:02.000 Really.

02:03:02.000 And, you know, the training has really evolved, too.

02:03:04.000 I was going to ask you about that.

02:03:05.000 Well, let's talk, for example, about you mentioned muscularity and strength.

02:03:09.000 How muscular do you need to be to be a fighter?

02:03:11.000 Yeah, that's the question, right?

02:03:12.000 Well, obviously, it's a weight-class sport, and you want to be as light as possible and as strong as absolutely possible.

02:03:18.000 So absolute strength is pretty important.

02:03:20.000 There's a fixed ratio between absolute strength and muscular endurance strength.

02:03:24.000 There's a fixed ratio.

02:03:25.000 So if you increase your ability to lift a really heavy weight one time, your endurance with a lighter weight is going to also improve.

02:03:34.000 Let's say you managed to build from 80 pounds to 100 pounds in a bicep curl.

02:03:40.000 And prior to that, you could take 50 pounds and maybe you could do 10. When you go from your 80 to your 100 pound curl, your ability to, if you went back to that same 50 pounds that you could do 10 with, you probably do about 13 or 14 reps now.

02:03:54.000 So there's a fixed ratio between strength and muscular endurance.

02:03:57.000 That's interesting.

02:03:58.000 So if you do chin-ups, like say if you can do...

02:04:00.000 I can do 20 chin-ups.

02:04:02.000 That's pretty remarkable.

02:04:03.000 That's always been like an amazing standard.

02:04:05.000 Well, you...

02:04:06.000 I'm kind of a stud.

02:04:07.000 I always tell people you're a stud.

02:04:09.000 Listen, I learned a lot from you.

02:04:10.000 But if I did it with a weight belt, you know, like a...

02:04:14.000 Like a dip belt and a barbell or a dumbbell plate underneath it?

02:04:20.000 Yes.

02:04:20.000 That would probably make my chin-ups better.

02:04:23.000 My ultimate goal, I want to be able to do 30 straight arm chin-ups.

02:04:29.000 All the way down.

02:04:30.000 Which one's a chin-up?

02:04:32.000 Palms face it.

02:04:33.000 That's the way I always do it because I feel like that's more applicable to jiu-jitsu.

02:04:36.000 You don't really choke anybody like this.

02:04:37.000 Well, unless you're doing a gi choke. 0.99

02:04:39.000 Yeah, but I don't really like gi chokes. 1.00

02:04:41.000 When I use the gi, I don't use the gi.

02:04:43.000 I use the gi for...

02:04:45.000 I roll with the gi.

02:04:46.000 I have a black belt in the gi.

02:04:48.000 But my game is completely defensive with the gi. 1.00

02:04:52.000 I do the same techniques.

02:04:55.000 Overhooks, underhooks.

02:04:56.000 I do the same type of jiu-jitsu.

02:04:59.000 I go for chokes and arm bars. 0.76

02:05:00.000 I don't try to collar choke people very rarely.

02:05:02.000 I do the clock choke every now and then, the same one that Valigi caught a hoist with, put him to sleep with.

02:05:07.000 That's a beautiful choke.

02:05:08.000 That's a beautiful choke.

02:05:09.000 Because I love the spin underneath.

02:05:10.000 It's such a ninja move.

02:05:11.000 But if you think about it, like, you know, the old saying was, it's not the grips, it's the hips.

02:05:16.000 And really top practitioners in both gi and no gi, a lot of times the game is virtually the same.

02:05:21.000 Solo, for example, or Shange, the game is pretty much the same with gi, without gi. 0.65

02:05:26.000 Right.

02:05:26.000 They don't overly depend on grips.

02:05:28.000 There's so many guys, though, that do.

02:05:30.000 We used to see that in the UFC. These guys who are Mundial's champion, high-level gi guys, but they relied so much on spider guard, so much on grabbing the sleeves. 1.00

02:05:39.000 Baron Bolo. 1.00

02:05:41.000 Yeah, that fucking shit is gone when everybody's sweaty. 1.00

02:05:43.000 When you've got a sweaty guy in his underwear on top of you dropping elbows on your face, and he happens to be a wrestler, so he knows how to grapple. 1.00

02:05:50.000 And how to use his weight to keep you pinned down. 0.98

02:05:53.000 Reaching for shit that's not there. 0.99

02:05:54.000 Instead of, you know, underhooks and, you know, overhooks and controlling the body. 1.00

02:05:59.000 Use the body and not the jacket.

02:06:02.000 Well, that's what Eddie Bravo always emphasized.

02:06:04.000 That, like, so many of the techniques of jiu-jitsu that these people relied on and trained on a regular basis, they just weren't applicable.

02:06:13.000 You know, it was like, do you see judo guys training Greco-Roman to get better at judo?

02:06:18.000 Well, actually, the Yusushi Miyake, the three-time world Greco-Roman wrestling champion, his judo game and his Greco-Roman wrestling game were virtually identical.

02:06:30.000 So he did both the same way.

02:06:31.000 Yeah, man.

02:06:32.000 So it was sort of the same idea.

02:06:33.000 He was a huge underhook man. 1.00

02:06:34.000 Ah.

02:06:35.000 You do not want to get in his...

02:06:37.000 Once he had that underhook, it wasn't a matter if you're going to be thrown, just a matter of when.

02:06:42.000 And it was a terrifying experience.

02:06:45.000 I was on the receiving end of it.

02:06:47.000 The guy was like, brutal.

02:06:49.000 Well, when you see the guys that are, like, really good at judo and they can apply it to MMA, it's so beautiful.

02:06:54.000 Like Hector Lombard.

02:06:55.000 Did you see Hector Lombard versus Jake Shields?

02:06:58.000 That was quite a magnificent match.

02:06:59.000 Oh! 0.60

02:07:00.000 The way he threw him, though.

02:07:02.000 And who was that Korean judo guy in Pride that was just...

02:07:05.000 The Korean judo guy.

02:07:07.000 Yeah, it was a guy that won the gold medal from Korea that was just magnificent throws.

02:07:11.000 It was in one of the Japanese shows.

02:07:12.000 Yoshida?

02:07:13.000 You talking about Yoshida?

02:07:14.000 He was a Japanese guy.

02:07:15.000 He was a gold medalist.

02:07:16.000 It was another Japanese show.

02:07:18.000 I just remember watching it and just watching this judo guy really...

02:07:22.000 Was Akiyama?

02:07:23.000 Was it Akiyama?

02:07:25.000 Akiyama was a judo guy.

02:07:26.000 He was pretty high-level Judo.

02:07:28.000 He was Korean.

02:07:28.000 Yeah.

02:07:29.000 Korean.

02:07:29.000 Gold medalist in the Olympics.

02:07:30.000 I think Akiyama was like half Korean and half Japanese.

02:07:34.000 I'm not sure.

02:07:35.000 Magnificent.

02:07:35.000 He really took the Judo and really turned it into quite a fighting art without the gig.

02:07:41.000 It was really fun to watch.

02:07:42.000 I wish I could remember the show, but I was hoping you'd remember.

02:07:44.000 Yeah.

02:07:45.000 Well, if you said his name, I'd remember what he did.

02:07:47.000 You're like an encyclopedia for this stuff, man.

02:07:48.000 I don't have any other sports in my head.

02:07:51.000 I have jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, and MMA. That's all I have in my head.

02:07:57.000 But you asked me some football questions.

02:07:59.000 I'll stare at you.

02:08:00.000 But let's go back to strength training and conditioning.

02:08:02.000 Well, there's a point of diminishing returns where getting stronger is not going to improve your performance anymore.

02:08:12.000 In order to get stronger past a certain point, you have to almost become a strength specialist.

02:08:16.000 And this is where a lot of guys get mixed up.

02:08:18.000 They start training like a powerlifter or Olympic weightlifter.

02:08:21.000 Big mistake.

02:08:24.000 The majority of your time should be going into improving your skill set.

02:08:27.000 That's the single most important thing.

02:08:30.000 When it comes to endurance now, you know, we talk about cardio and gas, right?

02:08:34.000 The absolute best way to get your cardio and gas at a high level is to wrestle or to do MMA. The problem is, a lot of these guys are so good, they have no one to push their gas.

02:08:46.000 For example, I trained Shanji Ibero the year he won Abu Dhabi in Barcelona.

02:08:53.000 And he took second in the open division.

02:08:55.000 He hurt his shoulder in the finals, but he won his division.

02:08:59.000 He was so good that there was no one in the room to push him, man.

02:09:02.000 I mean, this guy is like so good.

02:09:04.000 So elite at jiu-jitsu.

02:09:05.000 I had to pre-exhaust him before he would train.

02:09:10.000 I put him through growing circuits and such to really bring his cardio up and get him really tired.

02:09:16.000 Before he would roll?

02:09:17.000 Before he'd roll.

02:09:18.000 So that even an average dude can give him a hard time.

02:09:21.000 So now I have no juice left.

02:09:24.000 I've got to use pure technique in order to be able to do what I do.

02:09:27.000 That's fascinating.

02:09:28.000 So that when he could roll when he was fresh, it was probably a real treat.

02:09:33.000 Oh, yeah!

02:09:34.000 I mean, it was a play.

02:09:35.000 In fact, I was actually in Oslo, Norway at the time when he won.

02:09:39.000 He texted me, and it was one of the nicest things anyone ever said.

02:09:42.000 He says, Coach, I didn't even get tired at all.

02:09:46.000 And it was like, yes, the strategy really, really worked.

02:09:49.000 Well, you come up with some brutal workouts, man.

02:09:51.000 I still have those suspension things that you gave me.

02:09:54.000 But normally, normally, you wouldn't need those type of brutal workouts if you're getting high-level competition on the mat.

02:10:02.000 It almost would be too much.

02:10:04.000 It'd push you towards overtraining.

02:10:06.000 That's interesting.

02:10:06.000 So a guy like Fedor, or Fyodor, however you want to say it, if you want to be correct, he, at his best, stopped all the strength and conditioning training.

02:10:16.000 And all he would do is fight-specific training.

02:10:18.000 Pretty much sports-specific training, which was always the Russian motto.

02:10:22.000 I do believe that you do need to keep your absolute strength up.

02:10:25.000 You do need to lift weights a couple times a week just to keep fairly heavy weight, low rep, but don't tax yourself.

02:10:31.000 Use it sort of as a tonic.

02:10:33.000 And then really push yourself in the gym to get your hard rolls on, to develop your sports-specific conditioning.

02:10:40.000 Because, let's face it, all the rope skipping, running, kettlebell swings, stairs, it isn't the same as getting on the mat.

02:10:46.000 Right.

02:10:47.000 It's slightly different energy systems.

02:10:49.000 You're using your muscles, different firing patterns.

02:10:51.000 And yes, okay, if you don't have someone to push you in the gym, yes, this stuff is one way to do it, but it's not the ideal way.

02:11:00.000 Because most MMA guys, let's face it, it's like a full-time profession, man.

02:11:05.000 You're doing You're wrestling.

02:11:06.000 You're doing your kickboxing or boxing or whatever.

02:11:09.000 You're doing your jiu-jitsu.

02:11:11.000 My god, that's three disciplines.

02:11:13.000 It's like being a triathlete, you know?

02:11:17.000 You have to equally divide up.

02:11:20.000 I found, too, that when you get injured and then come back, it's always horrifying.

02:11:26.000 Like if I tore my knee meniscus, I had it scoped, and then I was out for a couple months, and then come back and you're just like, oh, death.

02:11:35.000 You know, like a couple minutes in, you're just a dead man.

02:11:38.000 And one of the ways that I mitigated that was kettlebell training.

02:11:42.000 Well, yeah.

02:11:42.000 I mean, when you're hurt or you have injuries or you don't have people to push into the gym, there are ways that you can very closely simulate the energy systems that you would use in actual grappling.

02:11:51.000 It's never as good as actual grappling or kickboxing or whatever.

02:11:55.000 Because you're forced to react to the other person, which you're not when you're training.

02:11:59.000 So even when you're pushing hard, you're still pushing hard at your pace.

02:12:03.000 You're not reacting to someone else's pace and relaxing and breathing while you're reacting to someone else's pace.

02:12:10.000 That's the big one.

02:12:11.000 And the other thing, like I mentioned, I wasn't a real big fan of Olympic lifting.

02:12:15.000 Olympic lifts are very technical.

02:12:18.000 Amazing athletic feat.

02:12:20.000 You're basically throwing a barbell over your head and jumping underneath it simultaneously.

02:12:24.000 That's what Olympic lifting is.

02:12:26.000 Very specific movement pattern.

02:12:29.000 Has nothing to do with martial arts.

02:12:31.000 When's the last time you saw anyone lift something over their head?

02:12:34.000 Right.

02:12:36.000 Very rarely.

02:12:37.000 Once it's Tank Abbott trying to throw somebody out of the cage.

02:12:39.000 And the skills required to Olympic lift are really high level.

02:12:42.000 I mean, these guys are amazing athletes in their own right.

02:12:45.000 But becoming an Olympic lifter is not going to make you better on the mat.

02:12:50.000 It just isn't.

02:12:51.000 The more skill level an exercise takes, the higher the skill, the less care over value to anything else.

02:12:58.000 That's why you want to keep your workouts fairly general, fairly simple, like your chin-ups, fantastic care over to any martial art.

02:13:06.000 Because it's very general.

02:13:07.000 It's no skill.

02:13:09.000 You pull yourself up or you don't.

02:13:10.000 You really develop a tremendous amount of strength, and in your case, strength endurance.

02:13:14.000 So deadlifts, squats, cleans.

02:13:19.000 Yeah.

02:13:19.000 So what I got from you is alternating cleans.

02:13:22.000 I love that one with kettlebells.

02:13:23.000 Yeah, with kettlebells. 0.91

02:13:24.000 That's one of my favorites.

02:13:25.000 I'm not a big barbell clean fan, only because of the way it can affect your back in a really negative way.

02:13:29.000 You mess up a barbell clean, you can really screw your lower back.

02:13:34.000 Let's face it, what we do on the mat is dangerous enough, in the ring and the mat.

02:13:38.000 It's pretty dangerous.

02:13:39.000 Yeah.

02:13:40.000 Already.

02:13:41.000 So I don't need to make my workouts, you know, I don't need to include traumatic type exercises like that.

02:13:46.000 Right.

02:13:47.000 I only use barbells or, yeah, barbells. 0.83

02:13:50.000 I only use it for bench press and I try not to do that too much.

02:13:54.000 But I will if I don't have someone there with me to help me spot because it's hard to do individual kettlebells with bench press or for deadlifts.

02:14:02.000 The bar is made for deadlifts and bench pressing.

02:14:05.000 That's what a barbell is for. 1.00

02:14:06.000 Kettlebells are for swings, pretty much, get-ups, bodyweight training. 0.94

02:14:11.000 Of course, any kind of pull-up or chin-up.

02:14:13.000 Obviously, dips and push-ups and things are fantastic.

02:14:17.000 The right tool for the right thing.

02:14:19.000 Some people get really hung up on kettlebells only, but hey, look, it's just one tool in the box, man.

02:14:24.000 They're good, but there's plenty of other good tools.

02:14:26.000 But it doesn't simulate chin-ups, right?

02:14:28.000 No.

02:14:28.000 There's a lot of things that kettlebells usually don't simulate.

02:14:30.000 There's no vertical pulling in kettlebell training.

02:14:35.000 So ideally, you would do your general strength training, and then you get on the mat, and you get your conditioning need met in the mat and the ring.

02:14:43.000 So you would say that if someone was like a high-level jiu-jitsu guy and you were looking to just maintain strength or get stronger, you almost wouldn't do conditioning with weights.

02:14:54.000 You would almost do like heavy weights, low reps.

02:14:58.000 Heavy strength work, low reps, heavy weights.

02:14:59.000 So like you would take like maybe like two 70-pound kettlebells and do like alternate cleans, you know, do some reps with heavy stuff.

02:15:08.000 Some heavy swings.

02:15:08.000 Heavy swings.

02:15:09.000 Heavy turkeys, get up some...

02:15:11.000 Maybe a 90-pound kettlebell with two hands for swings.

02:15:15.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:15:15.000 Something real heavy.

02:15:16.000 Heavy, low rep work, you know.

02:15:17.000 And not worry so much about developing strength, endurance, or cardio with the weights.

02:15:24.000 So you're just trying to get strong with the weights?

02:15:25.000 Trying to get as strong as you can for your weight class.

02:15:28.000 Now, if you need to hypertrophy, you need to change the reps a little bit.

02:15:31.000 If you need to armor up, let's say I'm working a guy that might be playing NFL football and he needs to put on some muscle, it's going to be a slightly different protocol.

02:15:38.000 Right.

02:15:39.000 But we're specifically talking like MMA and weight class sports like jiu-jitsu and so forth.

02:15:44.000 And hypertrophy?

02:15:46.000 I've always seen that word.

02:15:49.000 Increase in muscular size.

02:15:50.000 Okay.

02:15:50.000 There are some people that need that.

02:15:51.000 And the way to get that is just heavy, low reps, right?

02:15:55.000 Well, no, more moderate reps.

02:15:57.000 Moderate reps.

02:15:57.000 Yeah, the most important factor there is what they call tall time under a load.

02:16:01.000 You need to have your muscles under a certain tension for a specific time.

02:16:06.000 That seems to be the most important factor to increase muscular strength.

02:16:10.000 Do you believe in slow lifting?

02:16:12.000 Do you know that style of lifting?

02:16:14.000 Especially for people that have been injured, like yourself and myself.

02:16:17.000 It can be a very good training tool.

02:16:19.000 I do a lot of slow rep work with myself because I have had some trauma to my shoulders and my neck and my back over the years.

02:16:26.000 You know, you don't do 43 years of combat sports without paying the price.

02:16:30.000 Yeah, last time we worked out together, you were having some real shoulder problems.

02:16:34.000 Did that get better?

02:16:35.000 It did not.

02:16:36.000 It hasn't got worse. 0.99

02:16:38.000 Wow, this just still fucks with you. 0.98

02:16:40.000 Yeah, well, I developed some osteoarthritis in the shoulder, mostly from just doing silly stuff. 0.98

02:16:46.000 Look into this Regenikine stuff, man.

02:16:48.000 It's fantastic for that.

02:16:50.000 Yeah, you really should.

02:16:51.000 It's fantastic for that.

02:16:53.000 You're not a fan of CrossFit?

02:16:55.000 Not at all.

02:16:57.000 For one thing, there's not one elite athlete anywhere in the world that actually uses CrossFit as the model.

02:17:03.000 The second problem I have with CrossFit, Greg Glassman, the guy that invented it, it's no secret that he's very fat, an obese cripple basically, who doesn't even train. 1.00

02:17:15.000 What kind of system is it when the inventor of the system is not a good example of what he's putting out there?

02:17:22.000 That's crazy, right?

02:17:23.000 I don't know who the guy is that invented it.

02:17:26.000 Can we see him?

02:17:26.000 Pull him up, Jamie.

02:17:28.000 You know, of course, then the other thing is...

02:17:32.000 That's him? 1.00

02:17:32.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

02:17:34.000 No way. 1.00

02:17:35.000 Now, would you listen to him or would you listen to me?

02:17:39.000 Well, I'm listening to you anyway, but...

02:17:40.000 Yeah, no, but I mean, okay, listen.

02:17:43.000 You don't need to look like a men's health fitness model to be, you know...

02:17:47.000 Right, like Fedor.

02:17:48.000 Look at Fedor.

02:17:49.000 Yeah.

02:17:49.000 I mean, he looked like someone's dad that someone went in a bar and said, hey, do you want to fight?

02:17:54.000 Yeah.

02:17:54.000 Right.

02:17:54.000 Pulled him off the bar stool.

02:17:56.000 I mean, for sure, if the best physique was what determined who was going to win, the bodybuilders would win every fight. 1.00

02:18:04.000 Right, right.

02:18:04.000 But that just doesn't happen.

02:18:05.000 But for sure, you want to be an example.

02:18:07.000 You certainly don't want to be like...

02:18:09.000 Overweight.

02:18:09.000 See if you can find some other pictures of him.

02:18:11.000 I mean, maybe you caught him on a bad day.

02:18:13.000 Maybe he was bloated.

02:18:14.000 He ate some pastries.

02:18:16.000 He ate some cazone or something.

02:18:17.000 Yeah.

02:18:18.000 That's what the guy looks like? 1.00

02:18:20.000 That's fucking crazy. 1.00

02:18:22.000 Yeah, that's crazy. 1.00

02:18:22.000 So, why do people listen? 1.00

02:18:24.000 Well, I have to tell you something else.

02:18:24.000 Come on, that's really him?

02:18:26.000 There was a major university study on CrossFit, right?

02:18:29.000 And for sure, it improved people's fitness levels.

02:18:33.000 They got improved VO2 max, which is a measure of your ability to process oxygen.

02:18:37.000 They got stronger.

02:18:38.000 They lost body fat.

02:18:39.000 But when the study was looked at closely, 20% of the people involved with CrossFit dropped out due to injury.

02:18:48.000 That means like if I'm a gym owner, one out of every five of my clients is getting hurt and I'm losing the client.

02:18:53.000 That's insane, man.

02:18:55.000 Wow, one out of every five.

02:18:57.000 Because proper training for athletics is supposed to prevent injuries, not cause injuries.

02:19:03.000 If you're hurting yourself in the gym with your supplementary training, dude, you got to go to a new model, man.

02:19:11.000 Well, who was that major CrossFit guy that just got paralyzed?

02:19:14.000 Jamie, pull that up if you can.

02:19:16.000 There's a guy who was in the CrossFit, he was like the CrossFit Games, and he was, you know, a major star of CrossFit.

02:19:23.000 And I don't know what exercise he was doing, but he dropped the bar on himself or something and broke his back.

02:19:28.000 I hear these horror stories all the time, Joe.

02:19:31.000 Eddie Ift, who's a buddy of mine, he jumped like someone shot him.

02:19:34.000 CrossFit athlete was left paralyzed after having his spine severed.

02:19:37.000 By a dropped barbell.

02:19:38.000 Oh my god.

02:19:39.000 So there, once again, risk to benefit ratio of the exercises.

02:19:44.000 And so many of these guys, they're competing in exercise.

02:19:47.000 How the hell do you compete in exercise?

02:19:49.000 Well, I had a conversation with a guy who was on...

02:19:52.000 Is that him right there?

02:19:53.000 We dropped it on him?

02:19:54.000 Pictures of it.

02:19:54.000 It's not a video, but...

02:19:55.000 Oh, my God.

02:19:56.000 That's pretty sick, man.

02:19:57.000 Oh, my God. 0.70

02:19:58.000 It's falling on his neck?

02:20:00.000 Take it off, man.

02:20:01.000 Oh, my God. 0.98

02:20:02.000 It's pretty screwed up, man. 0.98

02:20:04.000 Oh, my God. 0.99

02:20:04.000 It just fell on his neck. 0.99

02:20:06.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

02:20:07.000 But think about this for a minute. 1.00

02:20:08.000 Oh, my God.

02:20:09.000 Don't play the video.

02:20:11.000 If I was to say to you right now, hey, let's do some push-ups. 1.00

02:20:14.000 We would use good form and good technique, right?

02:20:17.000 We'd really be working for the true purpose of exercise is to give a stimulus to our muscles so we get stronger, right?

02:20:24.000 Our body adapts.

02:20:25.000 Right.

02:20:26.000 But if I said, hey man, I bet you 20 bucks right now I could do more push-ups than you, you think we'd be doing good reps?

02:20:32.000 After a while, no.

02:20:34.000 The form would get right out the window because we want to compete with each other.

02:20:37.000 Yeah.

02:20:37.000 That's the insanity of competing in exercise and that's what CrossFit does.

02:20:40.000 So exercise really should only be to benefit sport, like your initial impulse to get into exercise in the first place.

02:20:48.000 Exactly.

02:20:48.000 To make you a better athlete, to increase your performance.

02:20:52.000 The CrossFit people need to get the fuck out of there and start getting out on the mat and do some real competition. 1.00

02:20:58.000 Because let's face it, every kind of sport is a sublimation of man's desire to wage war. 0.98

02:21:05.000 Why not really do war and do mono-mono combat?

02:21:08.000 That's what I'm talking about, Steve Maxwell.

02:21:11.000 Yeah!

02:21:12.000 I had a kid on Fear Factor once that was a CrossFit animal.

02:21:16.000 The kid was in serious shape.

02:21:17.000 His girlfriend was a CrossFitter, too. 0.99

02:21:19.000 They were both, like, fucking really fit. 0.96

02:21:21.000 And I was like, dude, what do you get out of it? 0.94

02:21:24.000 And he's like, you know, I just love competition.

02:21:26.000 I just love pushing myself.

02:21:27.000 I'm like, okay.

02:21:28.000 Have you ever done jujitsu?

02:21:30.000 You know, I try to get him to do it. 1.00

02:21:31.000 I'm like, but you're a fucking animal. 1.00

02:21:32.000 You're a stud. 1.00

02:21:33.000 I mean, do you know what an advantage it would be to be this fit?

02:21:35.000 Like, you could go on the mats.

02:21:37.000 Like, you would right away, your conditioning is so high, your VO2 max is so high, you just have to learn the techniques, and you'd be able to already just outwork people.

02:21:47.000 But you know the shocking thing, though, is a lot of times work is very, very specific to the particular sport.

02:21:53.000 You take, for example, well, I'll use Lance Armstrong.

02:21:56.000 You know, the greatest endurance athlete, right, is what he was coined.

02:21:59.000 I mean, let's take all the drug stuff out.

02:22:01.000 They all use drugs, okay?

02:22:02.000 But he was the greatest cyclist ever.

02:22:05.000 Amazing endurance, right? 0.98

02:22:06.000 His first few 10K runs, he sucked, man. 0.94

02:22:10.000 He sucked because he didn't have the specific movement patterns of running. 0.98

02:22:14.000 Now, he got better. 0.93

02:22:16.000 He had that type of energy system.

02:22:18.000 But each sport is different.

02:22:19.000 You take an average swimmer, even a really high-level swimmer, he's going to be exhausted in minutes on the mat.

02:22:27.000 But you take me and put me on a bike, I'm...

02:22:30.000 I'm not going to have any endurance on a mountain bike or a road bike or whatever.

02:22:34.000 You only develop endurance in a very specific way.

02:22:39.000 So the CrossFit guys, believe me, they would have to pay their dues.

02:22:42.000 It would take them a long time to adapt to jiu-jitsu or wrestling.

02:22:45.000 Because I can remember being off the mat for a long period of time and doing all these heinous workouts with kettlebells and body weight and all this.

02:22:53.000 Go on the mat and, oh my god, I would suck air so bad.

02:22:57.000 My gas would be horrible. 0.93

02:22:59.000 I'm thinking... 0.96

02:23:00.000 What the hell, man? 0.98

02:23:01.000 Right. 0.98

02:23:02.000 You know?

02:23:02.000 I'm in shape.

02:23:03.000 What the fuck's going on? 0.99

02:23:04.000 I'm in shape. 0.99

02:23:04.000 Yeah, I was in shape to swing kettlebells and to do burpees and it's not the same, man. 0.99

02:23:11.000 Okay, it would be better than if I hadn't done those things at all.

02:23:14.000 But let's face it.

02:23:15.000 There's no substitute for doing the actual activity.

02:23:19.000 Especially if you're in there and you have to roll with some savage who's in the gym five days a week, training 90 minutes a day, doing yoga in the morning, just gearing up for jiu-jitsu.

02:23:30.000 And part of the skill of jiu-jitsu, of course, is conserving your energy while you make the other guy put all his energy out.

02:23:37.000 So you've got that factor going in there, too.

02:23:39.000 I found myself shocked at how bad a shape I was in when I was in good jujitsu shape.

02:23:46.000 And I started kickboxing again after a few years off.

02:23:49.000 I had done no striking at all.

02:23:51.000 I mean, like, occasionally I'd go out to the garage and hit the bag a little bit, but, like, just abandoned it because I was really trying to get my black belt.

02:23:58.000 And then I started kickboxing when I was in really good jujitsu shape.

02:24:02.000 I could roll hard for a long period of time. 0.97

02:24:05.000 And I'd fucking hit the pads for a minute and I'd be exhausted. 0.96

02:24:08.000 It's amazing how sport-specific endurance can be. 0.99

02:24:12.000 That's how the body is.

02:24:12.000 Specific adaptation to imposed demand.

02:24:15.000 You can't get good at something else by doing a particular activity.

02:24:19.000 You get good at that activity.

02:24:21.000 And the body is amazingly specific when it comes to that type of thing.

02:24:24.000 This is something it took me a while to kind of figure out. 0.94

02:24:28.000 So all this crazy, silly buggery of waving these battling ropes and so-called MMA circuits, you know, it's just, you know, MMA, you know, MMA, gay. 1.00

02:24:39.000 But don't you think that that's important, though, to build a base? 0.83

02:24:42.000 Like, that's one of the things that Diego Sanchez told me that he does when he trains.

02:24:45.000 He said he would take, like, say if he had a fight coming up in, like, four months, and he would take the first six weeks...

02:24:52.000 And just concentrate entirely on strength and conditioning.

02:24:55.000 Just get himself very, very, very fit and strong.

02:24:58.000 For sure you want to have the base.

02:25:00.000 You know, having an aerobic base for anaerobic sports has, you know, been proven.

02:25:05.000 Having that type of—I remember even in a wrestling season, you know, we would do some distance runs, you know, a couple miles, doing general strength training just to, you know, build our general strength up to a pretty high level.

02:25:19.000 And then as the season progressed, we get more and more specific with our drills and our training and, you know, the shark bait drills.

02:25:26.000 And have you ever played that drill in jiu-jitsu, first points?

02:25:29.000 Everyone lines up against the wall.

02:25:30.000 You have your best three to five guys out in the middle.

02:25:33.000 First guy to get the two points stays.

02:25:35.000 Yeah.

02:25:36.000 Man, I'm telling you, even a high-level blackbot is going to get taken down by a bluebot at some point or get scored on because he gets that tired. 0.88

02:25:42.000 But, I mean, that's the type of strength endurance I'm talking about for grappling.

02:25:47.000 I mean, those are brutal drills, man.

02:25:49.000 Yeah, Jean-Jacques used to do one with sweeps where you'd be on the bottom and fresh guys would be on top.

02:25:55.000 It's just brutal, man.

02:25:55.000 Yeah, and as long as you could sweep the guy, you stayed in there.

02:25:58.000 But if he swept you, you got off.

02:25:59.000 So for endurance, there's no amount of, like I say...

02:26:03.000 Supplementary training, they can beat that.

02:26:06.000 No way, man.

02:26:07.000 Just like you found with the grappling, high-level grappling conditioning, you lost a lot of the endurance in the ring.

02:26:13.000 Now imagine an MMA fighter that has to have high-level endurance on takedowns, high-level endurance in kicking and punching, high-level endurance of jiu-jitsu on the ground.

02:26:23.000 He doesn't have time to be burning his body up with all this other nonsense.

02:26:28.000 He's going to be absolutely, utterly overtrained in no time at all in burnout.

02:26:33.000 And of course, a lot of these kids do get burnout.

02:26:36.000 Overtraining is really pretty high in combat sports.

02:26:43.000 Yeah, how do they figure out how they're overtrained?

02:26:47.000 Is it monitoring resting heart rate?

02:26:48.000 Yeah, morning resting heart rate.

02:26:49.000 Morning.

02:26:50.000 You take it first thing in bed, when you first wake up, and you take it for like seven days to get in.

02:26:55.000 Now, we're assuming you're not already overtrained.

02:26:57.000 Right, right, right.

02:26:58.000 If you suspect you're overtrained, you might want to take a couple of days off and then start this process of seven days in a row, monitoring your pulse.

02:27:08.000 On your iPhone, there's an app that you can actually hold your finger on the camera lens and do it.

02:27:15.000 It's pretty handy.

02:27:16.000 What?

02:27:16.000 Instant heart rate.

02:27:17.000 You hold your finger on the camera lens?

02:27:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:27:19.000 There's an app on your...

02:27:20.000 How does a camera lens figure out what your fucking heart rate is? 0.99

02:27:23.000 I don't know what the technology is. 0.98

02:27:26.000 Because the Samsung Galaxy S5, the new Galaxy Samsung, one of the things I like about it that I was thinking about picking it up is it has a heart rate monitor built into the actual phone itself because they have some sort of fit app.

02:27:39.000 It has something to do with the heat coming off your finger, is what I was told.

02:27:43.000 Like each pulse, it's a little bit of heat.

02:27:45.000 Does it work?

02:27:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:27:47.000 Can you do it?

02:27:47.000 Do it right now.

02:27:48.000 Do you have it on your phone?

02:27:49.000 No, I'm embarrassed to say this, but I was running here.

02:27:54.000 Yeah?

02:27:55.000 I actually had gone downtown, and I lost my iPhone as I was jogging to the show.

02:28:01.000 Like it fell out of your pocket?

02:28:02.000 It fell.

02:28:03.000 You've got to invest in a fanny pack, Steve Maxwell.

02:28:05.000 I sell them.

02:28:06.000 I'm going to send you one.

02:28:07.000 Okay, man.

02:28:07.000 I'm going to wear a Joe Rogan fanny pack.

02:28:09.000 Please do.

02:28:10.000 I'd be honored. 0.99

02:28:11.000 Damn it. 0.99

02:28:11.000 I've been selling these sweet leather roots fanny packs. 0.99

02:28:14.000 So it's laying out there on Santa Monica Boulevard somewhere on that little trail.

02:28:20.000 Do you have that app?

02:28:21.000 I was due for an iPhone 5 anyways.

02:28:23.000 Oh, okay.

02:28:24.000 Yeah.

02:28:24.000 You know how they have that Find Your Phone app?

02:28:27.000 Yeah, we were going to see if we could find it, but some bum probably has it right now. 0.98

02:28:31.000 Yeah, some stinky bum. 0.94

02:28:33.000 There's a lot of those in Santa Monica, man. 0.99

02:28:34.000 Isn't it shocking how many bums are in Santa Monica? 1.00

02:28:37.000 A lot of homeless.

02:28:37.000 Hey, look, if you've got to be homeless, why not here, man?

02:28:40.000 It's a pretty nice place to be homeless, I guess.

02:28:41.000 Yeah, it's definitely a good spot.

02:28:43.000 Sure beats Toronto or Chicago. 0.99

02:28:47.000 Fuck yeah, it does. 1.00

02:28:48.000 Siberia. 1.00

02:28:49.000 Yeah, there's brutal spots to be homeless.

02:28:52.000 So you hold your finger on the lens.

02:28:54.000 Yeah.

02:28:54.000 You're doing it, Jamie?

02:28:55.000 Is it working?

02:28:56.000 Yeah.

02:28:57.000 And you can also monitor your carotid heart rate. 1.00

02:28:59.000 Bitch, your fucking heart rate ain't 62 beats per minute. 1.00

02:29:01.000 That shit's broken. 1.00

02:29:02.000 Let me see it. 1.00

02:29:03.000 I'm an athlete.

02:29:04.000 Are you?

02:29:04.000 Yes.

02:29:05.000 Are you?

02:29:05.000 I ran seven miles yesterday.

02:29:07.000 Did you really? 1.00

02:29:07.000 You fucking animal. 1.00

02:29:08.000 Look at you. 1.00

02:29:08.000 You are an animal. 1.00

02:29:09.000 Savage. 1.00

02:29:09.000 Dude. 1.00

02:29:10.000 My normal resting heart rate is 59. Now, remember, the true resting pulse rate is when you first wake up in the morning before you even get out of bed.

02:29:18.000 How do I start it, Jamie?

02:29:19.000 There's probably a button on the bottom.

02:29:20.000 It might restart.

02:29:21.000 There you go.

02:29:22.000 Okay, let's see.

02:29:23.000 And you put it over the camera.

02:29:24.000 Okay, here we go.

02:29:25.000 That's amazing!

02:29:27.000 Yeah, the technology is pretty crazy.

02:29:29.000 I'm not a tech guy.

02:29:32.000 What's it called, Jamie?

02:29:35.000 It's a bunch of them, right?

02:29:36.000 Instant heart rate app.

02:29:36.000 Yeah, instant heart rate app.

02:29:38.000 And then it will record your message, and you will be able to keep a record. 0.99

02:29:43.000 That's pretty fucking dope. 0.97

02:29:45.000 So once you know what the average is, right? 0.99

02:29:47.000 Take it for seven, divide...

02:29:50.000 Oh, it has options.

02:29:52.000 Just woke up, before bed, exercising.

02:29:54.000 That's incredible that it can figure it out from you holding your finger over a camera.

02:30:00.000 What a world we live in.

02:30:02.000 What a world, man.

02:30:04.000 Fascinating.

02:30:05.000 You're talking to a guy that wouldn't use a cell phone or a laptop for years.

02:30:08.000 When I first met you, you had one of those Blackberries with the push button. 1.00

02:30:13.000 We would click, click, click. 1.00

02:30:15.000 I had one of those pieces of shit. 1.00

02:30:16.000 Remember that? 1.00

02:30:17.000 And you were like, this is amazing.

02:30:18.000 I can do everything on this.

02:30:21.000 You were so fired up about it.

02:30:23.000 So resting heart rate and then...

02:30:25.000 And then if your morning resting pulse rate when you first wake up is more than six or more beats, you should not train that day.

02:30:33.000 That means if you have an elevated heart rate, you're stressed, dude.

02:30:37.000 You have not recovered from the previous day's stress.

02:30:40.000 Elevated heart rate is the first sign of stress.

02:30:43.000 So it's all that nonsense about pushing yourself.

02:30:45.000 You don't want to get up.

02:30:47.000 You've got to get up anyway.

02:30:48.000 Push through it. 1.00

02:30:48.000 You feel like shit? 1.00

02:30:50.000 Push through it. 1.00

02:30:51.000 There's days that I just didn't want to train, but I forced myself to.

02:30:53.000 You really shouldn't do that.

02:30:54.000 You should not.

02:30:55.000 That's fascinating.

02:30:56.000 So that's a real lesson for people.

02:30:57.000 So there's a lot of folks out here that think, there's a lot of folks in MMA that think there's days when you're beat and exhausted and you've got to push through.

02:31:05.000 You shouldn't push through.

02:31:06.000 You should not push through.

02:31:07.000 You're doing damage to your body.

02:31:08.000 You're pushing yourself further and further into exhaustion.

02:31:11.000 That's amazing.

02:31:12.000 Now, that doesn't mean that you can't get up and do joint mobility, stretching, yin yoga, walking with breath work.

02:31:21.000 You can go in and if you can hold yourself back, a lot of these kids are pretty addicted to training.

02:31:25.000 But you could also do skill rehearsal.

02:31:28.000 You could do drill.

02:31:30.000 So do something that doesn't push you.

02:31:31.000 Yeah, let's say you're a competitive jiu-jitsu guy, so you practice your favorite sweep or your barren bolo or your turtle guard, whatever.

02:31:38.000 You do that, and you don't do anything hard.

02:31:41.000 Does your son Zach follow all your principles?

02:31:43.000 Yes, he does.

02:31:44.000 And he's been a really good model of this type of intelligent training.

02:31:48.000 And he does not do supplementary training other than strength training.

02:31:51.000 And he lifts weights and just...

02:31:53.000 Yeah.

02:31:54.000 And he does this all monitoring the heart rate and all that jazz?

02:31:57.000 Yep.

02:31:57.000 That's fascinating.

02:31:58.000 And he's done really well for himself.

02:31:59.000 He won brown belt worlds, and he's one of the few guys to actually beat Kron Gracie.

02:32:03.000 He beat Kron in the Las Vegas Black Belt Challenge.

02:32:07.000 No, look, I was very impressed with Zach.

02:32:09.000 You know, I knew who he was because of you.

02:32:12.000 You know, you told me about him, but then Eddie Bravo actually told me about him, and I said, did you know that that's Steve Maxwell's son?

02:32:18.000 He was like, holy, well, no wonder.

02:32:19.000 You know, he was like, no wonder. 1.00

02:32:21.000 He goes, the younger kid must be a fucking animal. 1.00

02:32:22.000 Growing up with Steve Maxwell as your dad. 1.00

02:32:24.000 He's an animal, man.

02:32:25.000 It is an animal.

02:32:26.000 So if a guy wakes up, like say if your normal resting heart rate is, you know, for an elite athlete, let's say it's 40 beats a minute.

02:32:33.000 Right.

02:32:33.000 And you wake up and one day it's 45. Yeah, you probably, you definitely should take off that day.

02:32:38.000 So stretch.

02:32:39.000 Or just something, like they call it active recovery.

02:32:42.000 Yes.

02:32:43.000 Where it's just moderate, low level activity, but definitely don't go beat your brains out in the gym.

02:32:49.000 Wow. 0.99

02:32:50.000 And so the people that do do that, that think you just got to push through, they're just being strong but being dumb. 0.99

02:32:57.000 They're being dumb because it's going to work against you. 0.99

02:33:00.000 Let's put it this way. 0.99

02:33:01.000 It's not what you can do in the gym.

02:33:03.000 It's what can you recover from in the gym.

02:33:05.000 Because all the magic happens from rest.

02:33:09.000 A workout only has negative consequences.

02:33:12.000 Your blood pressure is elevated.

02:33:14.000 You're muscularly weaker.

02:33:16.000 You've actually torn and broken down muscle fiber.

02:33:20.000 Your whole hormonal system is lower.

02:33:24.000 It's that rest phase in between the workouts where your body adapts and you become stronger.

02:33:30.000 The more fit you become, the longer it takes to recover because you're able to push yourself harder and harder.

02:33:35.000 A weak person that's not very fit, they can't push themselves hard enough to really...

02:33:39.000 They actually could probably work out every day.

02:33:42.000 But a really fit, strong guy like yourself, for example, you cannot drive yourself every day because each workout you're making such a demand on your body.

02:33:50.000 One thing that you cannot control is your ability to recover.

02:33:54.000 It's set at the biologic level.

02:33:56.000 It's cellular, man.

02:33:57.000 Unless you're doing steroids.

02:33:59.000 Unless you're doing steroids.

02:34:00.000 That changes a lot.

02:34:01.000 But even those guys still...

02:34:03.000 One of the things that steroids does do is it allows you to recover much, much more quickly.

02:34:09.000 I want to talk to you about weight cutting, too, because there was a really fascinating thing today.

02:34:13.000 There was an article in Bloody Elbow about Jim Miller.

02:34:17.000 And Jim Miller was talking about how he believes that weight cutting took years off of his life.

02:34:22.000 And, you know, I mean, Jim looked fantastic this weekend.

02:34:25.000 He beat Yancey Medeiros.

02:34:27.000 He submitted him in a guillotine, put him out, actually.

02:34:29.000 First time I've ever seen a guy celebrate while a guy's unconscious lying on him.

02:34:32.000 Like, Jim is like this, and Yancey's completely out cold, eyes open, lying on top. 0.99

02:34:38.000 And Yancey's a fucking stud, too. 1.00

02:34:40.000 So it was a big victory for him. 1.00

02:34:41.000 Miller's a sick jiu-jitsu guy.

02:34:43.000 He submitted Fabricio Camoens in his last fight, who was one of Hoyler's black belts.

02:34:48.000 Wow.

02:34:48.000 So, I mean, he caught him with a really slick arm bar.

02:34:51.000 So this guy gotta be pretty doggone good, man. 0.99

02:34:53.000 Jim Miller's a bad motherfucker, but he was talking about his weight drop and, you know, his weight cut that he's, you know, made a lot of errors over the years and that, you know, he's fucked it up, but, you know, it's a direct quote. 0.99

02:35:06.000 He says, I'm positive I took years off my life cutting weight. 1.00

02:35:10.000 That's fucking crazy. 0.86

02:35:12.000 Well, if you think about it, just combat sports itself, like I said, I mentioned this several times, no one ever said it's healthy. 0.99

02:35:19.000 It definitely shaves years off at the end of your life.

02:35:22.000 But hey, look, man, you can't just have...

02:35:24.000 I mean, you could just be like some dude that never did much and just sits around and has a really nice long life.

02:35:30.000 But I mean, what the hell is that, man?

02:35:32.000 You know?

02:35:33.000 It's like a man can't just sit around.

02:35:35.000 Right.

02:35:36.000 So, like, you take the typical NFL football player.

02:35:40.000 You know, the average life expectancy for an NFL football player, I believe, is 64 years old.

02:35:44.000 It's not very old.

02:35:46.000 You know, that's young, dude.

02:35:47.000 That's only three more years older than I am.

02:35:50.000 Right.

02:35:50.000 But if you were to ask those guys, hey, was it all worth it?

02:35:53.000 They'd say, hell yeah.

02:35:55.000 Man, the roar of the crowd, the adulation, you know.

02:35:59.000 You know, the excitement of playing at such a high elite level of sport, almost every guy to a man would say, yeah, you know what?

02:36:07.000 I would take the shorter life for the glory.

02:36:09.000 But that aside, you know, people that are just doing this for fun, as a hobby, they've got to be careful, man.

02:36:18.000 We're good to go.

02:36:35.000 Constantly fought guys much larger than him.

02:36:38.000 Won the title.

02:36:38.000 Beat BJ Penn, who also did the same thing.

02:36:41.000 BJ Penn fought below his weight for his entire career. 0.99

02:36:45.000 Fought fucking heavyweight when he fought Lyoto Machida. 0.98

02:36:48.000 Machida was like 208 when they fought. 0.99

02:36:51.000 It was pretty amazing. 0.99

02:36:52.000 Fucking crazy. 0.99

02:36:52.000 And held his own. 0.99

02:36:54.000 Held his own.

02:36:55.000 You know, beat Matt Hughes, who was a monster, at 170. You know, B.J. Penn was the perfect example of a guy who just fought anybody at any weight.

02:37:05.000 Anybody.

02:37:05.000 The guy had no fear, man.

02:37:06.000 He's an animal.

02:37:07.000 And now he's fighting at 145. I know, man.

02:37:10.000 It's incredible.

02:37:11.000 I mean, it's probably where he should have been his entire career if you compare the athletes of today and what they're doing.

02:37:15.000 But even at 145, he just decided to alter his diet, really intensified his training, and now he got down to, like, he's walking around a little over 150 pounds.

02:37:25.000 So he's not going to cut a lot of weight.

02:37:27.000 You know, these guys that are cutting like 25, 30 pounds of weight, I've seen guys shuffle up to the scale.

02:37:34.000 Like death warmed over.

02:37:36.000 Travis Luter was the worst. 0.91

02:37:37.000 Like cadavers, man. 0.88

02:37:38.000 Travis Luter, when he fought Anderson Silva, missed the weight cut.

02:37:41.000 And missed it, tried it again, missed it again, and then wound up fighting for a non-title fight because he couldn't make the weight.

02:37:48.000 And he was off by not much at the end.

02:37:50.000 It was only like a pound and a half, but shuffling to the weight, to the scale because he couldn't walk.

02:37:56.000 And then they tried to rehydrate with these IVs.

02:37:58.000 They take the IV. Man, there's no way that your body could sustain that type of abuse and you'd be at your best.

02:38:05.000 You're not going to be at your best.

02:38:06.000 No way.

02:38:08.000 There's Luder when he weighed in.

02:38:11.000 It's hard to tell from photos how bad he looked.

02:38:14.000 You had to see him moving and walking.

02:38:15.000 Look how sunken his eyes were though.

02:38:20.000 It's hard to tell from that picture how much different he looks than he does when he's normal and healthy and full and ready to rock. 0.95

02:38:29.000 That was a guy who had fucking massive potential. 0.52

02:38:32.000 He was such a good jiu-jitsu guy. 0.98

02:38:34.000 Such a good jiu-jitsu guy.

02:38:35.000 Until his end of his career.

02:38:36.000 Even in my own personal experience, like...

02:38:38.000 1974, I was gearing up for the NCAA tournaments.

02:38:44.000 You know, we're getting into the big tournament season.

02:38:46.000 I had a record of 18-2-1 at that time.

02:38:50.000 I was a really good college wrestler, high level.

02:38:52.000 And somehow I got talked into going down to 158. I was doing great at 167. That was like my natural weight.

02:38:59.000 I felt really good.

02:39:00.000 I was strong.

02:39:01.000 Joe was a huge mistake.

02:39:02.000 I end up getting the flu.

02:39:04.000 I get sick. 0.99

02:39:04.000 I felt like shit. 0.99

02:39:06.000 So you're probably already lean at that weight. 1.00

02:39:07.000 I was already lean, man.

02:39:08.000 And you were cutting.

02:39:09.000 How much did you drop and how much were you cutting?

02:39:11.000 Well, you know, from 167 to 158, that's almost 10 pounds.

02:39:15.000 Right, but what were you weighing when you weighed 167?

02:39:17.000 What were you walking around at?

02:39:19.000 Usually about 170 maybe.

02:39:22.000 So you're only cutting a little bit.

02:39:23.000 Yeah, because I was very strict.

02:39:25.000 Even in those days, even in my college days back in the 70s, I was very strict about my diet.

02:39:30.000 There's a lot of people that are trying to figure out the point of diminishing returns.

02:39:34.000 Like, what is it when it comes to weight cutting?

02:39:36.000 Because you'll see guys that rehydrate, and they are beasts, like Glace and Tebow. 0.99

02:39:41.000 That guy cuts almost 30 fucking pounds. 0.73

02:39:43.000 Well, one of the things I really liked about the Moon Giles and the Pan Ams, you weigh in at the edge of the mat, and then you go out and you fight right then and there. 0.99

02:39:53.000 There's no cheating the scales.

02:39:54.000 Can't do that for the UFC, though.

02:39:55.000 I often wish they would, though, because I tell you, you would see the abuse of weight loss would completely end.

02:40:02.000 I agree.

02:40:03.000 People would have to fight their own weight.

02:40:04.000 I think that they should fight their own weight, and I think that's more in line with the spirit of martial arts.

02:40:10.000 I do, too.

02:40:10.000 Because why are people losing weight?

02:40:12.000 Well, they're trying to have a mechanical advantage.

02:40:15.000 Tall, rangy guys have that leverage strength, a leverage advantage.

02:40:19.000 I mean, you know...

02:40:20.000 Physical strength advantage, muscular advantage.

02:40:23.000 And then, you know, you lose this weight unnaturally, artificially, and then, you know, by fight time, you're much, much heavier.

02:40:31.000 It's kind of a form of cheating, actually, in my opinion.

02:40:34.000 In a way, it is.

02:40:35.000 In a way, it is.

02:40:36.000 But if everybody's doing it, it almost is a necessity to compete at the highest levels.

02:40:40.000 That's the problem.

02:40:40.000 Well, that is the problem.

02:40:41.000 It's just like the guys, you know, like Lance Armstrong said, look, everybody was taking the drugs.

02:40:46.000 How can you compete at that level in the Tour de France if you don't?

02:40:50.000 Well, okay, but my point is no one should be doing it. 0.97

02:40:56.000 Well, the Lance Armstrong thing, the problem was he's a douchebag. 0.98

02:40:59.000 That's the problem. 0.77

02:41:00.000 He sued everybody for saying that he was taking drugs, said everybody, you know, looked people in the eye and said, you know, I never doped, I never did anything. 0.96

02:41:09.000 Amazing liar, man.

02:41:10.000 Not amazing. 0.95

02:41:10.000 I didn't believe him. 0.95

02:41:11.000 Nah. 1.00

02:41:12.000 Not for a fucking second. 1.00

02:41:13.000 Not for one second. 1.00

02:41:14.000 I had a friend.

02:41:15.000 My friend is a former professional cyclist.

02:41:19.000 And he told me, he goes, listen to me, man.

02:41:22.000 No one.

02:41:23.000 No one's clean.

02:41:24.000 I go, no one?

02:41:25.000 He goes, no one.

02:41:26.000 No one's clean.

02:41:26.000 I could believe that.

02:41:28.000 He said guys would get up, he was on the tour, and guys would get up and they were on a bus together.

02:41:34.000 Guys would get up, they would be on so much EPO that they would have to take their bike out in the middle of the night and run because their blood would start getting thick.

02:41:40.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:41:41.000 Yeah, oh, Jesus.

02:41:42.000 That's crazy stuff, man.

02:41:44.000 He said you would hear the guy get their bike rack off, and you would hear them just ride off, and you knew exactly what it was.

02:41:49.000 Just trying to thin out that button.

02:41:50.000 Well, you know, I think we see it in fighters.

02:41:52.000 There's some fighters that work out the day before the fight. 0.61

02:41:55.000 And why are they doing it? 0.98

02:41:57.000 They fucking have to. 0.99

02:41:58.000 They probably have to. 0.99

02:41:59.000 You know?

02:42:00.000 Why would you want to stress your body out the day before a fight?

02:42:03.000 I mean, it's one thing to get a light workout in.

02:42:05.000 Yeah, a little sweat, a little jumping rope, some stretching, a little yoga.

02:42:08.000 There's guys who would work out hard the day before.

02:42:10.000 And also, EPO wasn't even being tested in Nevada.

02:42:14.000 I mean, I think they're testing for it now, but for the longest time, they weren't testing for EPO because they thought it was an endurance sport problem, like a thing like cycling and triathlons.

02:42:24.000 And they didn't think that it applied to boxing, which I thought was like one of the best pieces of evidence. 0.99

02:42:29.000 You got fucking morons who are dictating what gets tested and not tested. 1.00

02:42:33.000 You want to talk just a complete ignorance of what is involved in the sport. 1.00

02:42:38.000 Boxing is such an intensive endurance sport.

02:42:40.000 Amazing endurance sport, man.

02:42:42.000 Anyone that doubts it, just get in there and do three minutes sometime in a boxing gym and see.

02:42:46.000 Just hit the back! 1.00

02:42:47.000 It's absolutely, utterly devastating if you're not used to it. 0.94

02:42:50.000 Yeah, I mean, without anybody ripping your body with left hooks.

02:42:53.000 Yeah, I mean, let alone taking the punches in addition.

02:42:56.000 And trying to breathe while someone's punching you.

02:42:59.000 And breathing.

02:42:59.000 Well, that's the thing that Nick Diaz always does to guys.

02:43:01.000 People always say, well, why does he punch like that?

02:43:03.000 Because, like, he'll throw, like, a lot of punches that aren't even that fast.

02:43:05.000 Because you can't breathe while he's hitting you.

02:43:07.000 While he's hitting you, you're going, you're tightening up.

02:43:09.000 So, a few minutes of that, like, you've essentially held your breath.

02:43:12.000 Like, he's just...

02:43:13.000 Robbing you...

02:43:14.000 Pop, pop, pop.

02:43:15.000 Yeah.

02:43:15.000 Of oxygen.

02:43:16.000 Yeah.

02:43:17.000 But, uh, one thing I was really happy about the Munjiao, they finally started testing the metal winners for the drugs. 0.93

02:43:23.000 Oh.

02:43:23.000 For years, they did not.

02:43:25.000 And, um...

02:43:26.000 When did they do this?

02:43:27.000 This has just been the last couple of years.

02:43:30.000 That's very important, because for the longest time, guys would come out looking purple.

02:43:35.000 Some of the guys were bragging about the drug that they were taking.

02:43:38.000 And finally, they made it illegal.

02:43:40.000 They are now testing the place winners in the Munjiao, and you're suspended.

02:43:46.000 Now, I believe, Zach told me this the other night, that I believe it's a year.

02:43:50.000 I don't know whether that's true or not.

02:43:51.000 I heard it's a year of suspension.

02:43:53.000 So no jiu-jitsu tournaments at all for a year?

02:43:55.000 For one year.

02:43:56.000 I think it should be more, like three years, but...

02:43:59.000 Well, that would really keep the blow.

02:44:00.000 Make it real, you know.

02:44:01.000 The UFC does nine months for the first defense, you know, but they're really trying to crack down on it.

02:44:06.000 And now, you know, we have this, the TRT issue, which I had Dr. Mark Gordon, who's an expert in traumatic brain injury, who was talking to me about the, you know, he's like, there's two reasons why someone needs testosterone.

02:44:20.000 Well, there's three.

02:44:21.000 One, you're an older person and your body starts to wane.

02:44:24.000 Two, you've suffered brain injuries.

02:44:27.000 Brain injuries.

02:44:27.000 Yeah.

02:44:27.000 Three, you took steroids, and then you depleted your system, and now you have to replenish it artificially.

02:44:33.000 And so, finally, they removed that from fighting, which I think is very important.

02:44:37.000 I think so, too.

02:44:38.000 Because two of those things, a traumatic brain injury, for sure, and then the steroid taking, for sure.

02:44:42.000 And then if you're old, you know, you're a guy who's in his 40s, and you want to keep competing, and the only way to do it is with testosterone...

02:44:50.000 Boy, you probably shouldn't be fighting anymore.

02:44:52.000 Probably not.

02:44:53.000 I mean, it's a certain point.

02:44:54.000 It's a young man's game. 0.87

02:44:55.000 And you can do things naturally to stimulate it as you get, like, my age.

02:45:01.000 Yeah, we're running out of time here.

02:45:02.000 Sorry.

02:45:02.000 But, yeah, doing high-intensity interval training.

02:45:06.000 Squats.

02:45:06.000 Yeah, full-body movement patterns, big movements.

02:45:11.000 I like to run some sprints, wind sprints, those type of things.

02:45:15.000 You know, short, intense sprints.

02:45:18.000 What do you think?

02:45:19.000 Have you studied at all any of these new gains that they're making in genetic engineering and what they're pushing for?

02:45:27.000 Have you contemplated what the possibilities are for sports?

02:45:33.000 Because it's one of the things that I'm more, I want to say concerned, but fascinated at the same time.

02:45:39.000 You know, as a person who's standing outside of it, I mean, obviously I'm a commentator, but Science is so close to altering the very genetics of a human being.

02:45:50.000 I mean, within our lifetime, 40, 50 years from now, max, you're going to see super athletes from the bottle, from a test tube, from a needle, from whatever it is.

02:46:01.000 Genetic engineering.

02:46:02.000 That's why they keep threatening anyway.

02:46:04.000 Yeah.

02:46:04.000 It's going to happen.

02:46:05.000 Yeah, I'm sure maybe at some point.

02:46:07.000 It still seems to be pretty far off and still a lot of theory and conjecture.

02:46:11.000 But what happens then?

02:46:12.000 I mean, how much do we lose?

02:46:14.000 If we think about what an athlete is, when you admire a guy like, say, a Rocky Marciano or a great boxer or a...

02:46:22.000 Any great athlete from a time where they weren't doing anything.

02:46:26.000 What do you admire them for?

02:46:28.000 You admire them for their willpower, their determination, their focus, their tenacity, the fact that this guy...

02:46:34.000 Their workmanship.

02:46:37.000 Yes, their work ethic.

02:46:37.000 Their work ethic, yeah.

02:46:38.000 When I was a kid, when I lived in Boston, Muhammad Ali was going to fight Mustafa Hamshaw.

02:46:44.000 And Muhammad Ali was one of the most Spartan training...

02:46:47.000 Excuse me, not Muhammad Ali.

02:46:48.000 Jesus Christ.

02:46:49.000 Marvin Hagler was going to fight Mustafa Hamshaw.

02:46:51.000 I can't believe I said Muhammad Ali.

02:46:52.000 Because I was thinking about him as another example of a great athlete who just trained hard in an era with no drugs.

02:46:59.000 But...

02:47:00.000 Marvin Hagler was going to fight Mustapha Hamshaw, and he was training for it on Cape Cod in the winter. 0.87

02:47:05.000 And one of the reasons why he did that was because he would run the sand dunes, and just because he loved the fact that he was in the fucking brutal cold of Cape Cod running by the ocean.

02:47:15.000 And I remember they had a thing on the news where they were hyping up the fight, and they were going through his training regime.

02:47:21.000 And he was running up sand dunes screaming war.

02:47:25.000 Just screaming.

02:47:26.000 Just war! 0.81

02:47:28.000 And just running and shadowboxing.

02:47:30.000 And I saw that and I went running.

02:47:32.000 I ran stairs near my house.

02:47:34.000 There was stairs near this bridge near my house and I went running. 1.00

02:47:36.000 I was like, fuck! 0.99

02:47:38.000 But, you know, instead, he's sitting there and they're pumping him full of EPO and they're monitoring his blood and, you know, giving him artificial this and genetic that and... 1.00

02:47:48.000 What is a...

02:47:49.000 I mean, remember Drago in Russia?

02:47:51.000 Yes. 1.00

02:47:51.000 In the fucking... 1.00

02:47:52.000 In the Rocky IV, when you saw Stallone was fucking running with logs on his back through the snow, and they have Drago, they're spiking him with steroids. 0.99

02:48:01.000 Yeah, lifting a cart full of rocks and all that. 0.96

02:48:03.000 Yeah.

02:48:04.000 Well, you know, we've already done so our food with genetic modified...

02:48:09.000 It's inevitable though, right?

02:48:11.000 I suppose they're going to do it to the human body also.

02:48:13.000 I mean, who knows?

02:48:14.000 But what does that have to say about athletics?

02:48:16.000 What is athletics going to be when that happens?

02:48:19.000 Well, it sure isn't going to be what we knew it to be.

02:48:21.000 And it sure strays far from the ideal that carried us for 2,000 years, which was the ancient Greek ideal.

02:48:29.000 Golden age agrees. 0.97

02:48:31.000 Our generations are probably the last generations to know what privacy feels like, like real true privacy.

02:48:37.000 Remember when you were a kid, you could leave the house? 0.99

02:48:38.000 You could just fuck off and go anywhere. 0.99

02:48:40.000 Nobody had any idea where you are. 1.00

02:48:41.000 Your parents hoped you came home, and that's about it.

02:48:43.000 That's pretty much it, man.

02:48:44.000 My mom sent me out with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a brown bag saying, see you at dinner, and that was it.

02:48:49.000 I remember the first day we got an answering machine.

02:48:53.000 Someone could leave a message when you weren't home.

02:48:56.000 Making tree forts and all sorts of crazy stuff.

02:48:59.000 The era of genetic manipulation, though, is surely right around the corner, or within our lifetime, within 40, 50 years.

02:49:07.000 Yeah, so I don't know.

02:49:09.000 But probably when it goes into full swing and becomes completely accepted by society, I guess I'll probably be dead by that point.

02:49:17.000 I don't know, dude.

02:49:18.000 I have a feeling you're going to live a long time.

02:49:20.000 I have a feeling you're going to be around for a long time.

02:49:21.000 You're kind of planning for it, too.

02:49:23.000 Yeah.

02:49:23.000 Your diet is very unusual in that respect.

02:49:26.000 I've gotten very Spartan, and the systematic under-eating has shown to be one of the keys to longevity.

02:49:31.000 Systematic under eating.

02:49:32.000 How many calories?

02:49:34.000 Do you mark your calories?

02:49:36.000 I use an Okinawan.

02:49:38.000 Okinawans are like that blue zone where people, like an unusual amount, live to be centenarians. 0.95

02:49:46.000 Very high level.

02:49:47.000 Another blue zone is Ikaria, Greece, where there's an unusual amount of people that live to be over 100 years old.

02:49:53.000 Part of it's genetics, but a lot of it is the lifestyle, the lack of stress, and so forth.

02:49:57.000 But at any rate, the Okanomans have this saying, 80%.

02:49:59.000 You never leave the table feeling satisfied.

02:50:02.000 You never eat until you're full.

02:50:04.000 You leave 80% capacity.

02:50:09.000 Why do they do that?

02:50:10.000 What's the philosophy behind that?

02:50:12.000 The idea is if you overburden your digestion by overeating or making yourself feel full, it's too much of an innervation on the system.

02:50:19.000 It takes more out of you than what you get out of your food.

02:50:22.000 So that has been something that's ingrained in their culture for a long time?

02:50:26.000 It's ingrained in their culture.

02:50:27.000 Wow, so this is something they figured out a long time ago.

02:50:29.000 They figured this out a long time ago.

02:50:30.000 It probably goes way back to ancient times.

02:50:33.000 They also get a lot of coral calcium too, right?

02:50:35.000 Isn't that like a big part of...

02:50:36.000 They do.

02:50:37.000 They have a lot of mineralization from their fish broth and so forth.

02:50:42.000 And they eat a very simple, pretty Spartan diet, really.

02:50:47.000 I mean, it's very simple.

02:50:48.000 Now, in these days...

02:50:50.000 How much time we got left, Jamie?

02:50:52.000 Five minutes.

02:50:53.000 These days, do you roll at all anymore?

02:50:56.000 Do you still do jiu-jitsu?

02:50:57.000 Yeah, I was just down in Arcadia rolling around at Carson Gracie School.

02:51:02.000 Now, do you make sure that you don't go with any...

02:51:04.000 Carlos Gracie's affiliate school. 0.80

02:51:06.000 Don't go with any crazy dudes?

02:51:07.000 Well, you know, I'm a fifth-degree black belt now, and a lot of times I am a little bit younger than what I look, so kids don't see a 61-year-old dude.

02:51:15.000 They see, like, black belt... 1.00

02:51:17.000 Right.

02:51:18.000 So I gotta be very careful who I choose.

02:51:21.000 Right.

02:51:21.000 I like to do light rolls.

02:51:22.000 Usually the instructor at the school is pretty good.

02:51:24.000 Yeah.

02:51:25.000 And you go in with a lot of humility, you know, for sure.

02:51:28.000 Get permission before you go to these schools.

02:51:30.000 You just don't show up and put the guy in the spot.

02:51:32.000 Right, right, right.

02:51:33.000 They might think you're challenging or something and, you know, they want to show off in front of the students or whatever.

02:51:37.000 So I'm very, very careful.

02:51:39.000 I like to roll with, you know, lighter guys.

02:51:41.000 I try not to roll with the really heavy guys anymore.

02:51:44.000 Yeah, I'm done with heavy guys.

02:51:45.000 It's just too bad for your back.

02:51:47.000 Yeah, no, it is.

02:51:48.000 Your back is just any guy over 200 pounds stacking you.

02:51:52.000 It's just too much on your joints and especially your spine.

02:51:56.000 Like here on Gracie, apparently.

02:51:58.000 I want to talk to him about this, but he's got a numb arm.

02:52:01.000 I do an awful lot of joint mobility work.

02:52:03.000 I actually teach a specific anti-aging mobility routine.

02:52:07.000 You have a DVD on it?

02:52:08.000 Yeah.

02:52:09.000 Video downloads, actually.

02:52:10.000 I've switched from DVDs to downloads.

02:52:13.000 I have the DVD. I'm old school.

02:52:14.000 I bought it years ago.

02:52:16.000 But yeah, mobility is really important.

02:52:18.000 But I've changed my mobility over the years.

02:52:20.000 Now I've learned new things and I've incorporated new ideas.

02:52:23.000 So I should get the new one?

02:52:24.000 Yeah, I think so.

02:52:25.000 I'll send it to you.

02:52:26.000 Where do I get it from?

02:52:27.000 If somebody was listening to this.

02:52:28.000 It's maxwellsc.com.

02:52:32.000 Maxwell Strength and Conditioning.

02:52:33.000 Yeah.

02:52:35.000 Maxwellsc.com.

02:52:36.000 That's the website.

02:52:37.000 That's everything.

02:52:39.000 I'll send you the link.

02:52:40.000 You just write me and I'll send you the links.

02:52:42.000 And your Twitter, though, is Steve Maxwell SC. Yes.

02:52:46.000 Steve Maxwell SC. So if someone wants to get a strength and conditioning program from you, you do all that stuff online, right?

02:52:54.000 I do.

02:52:55.000 And you have a lot of videos online.

02:52:56.000 There's a lot of cool stuff.

02:52:58.000 A lot of videos and stuff I'm working on.

02:52:59.000 I'm always trying to improve myself.

02:53:02.000 I'm still a student.

02:53:04.000 I don't care how long you've been in the game.

02:53:06.000 Man, you can still learn new things.

02:53:07.000 And so...

02:53:08.000 It's an ever-evolving thing.

02:53:10.000 And of course, as I get older, I have to change up too.

02:53:12.000 I mean, no one gets out of here alive.

02:53:15.000 Your capacity does diminish over time and you feel the bump, but you can really slow it down to a crawl.

02:53:23.000 As long as you continue to push.

02:53:24.000 You've got to do some push.

02:53:26.000 You've got to constantly fight against the aging process.

02:53:30.000 You were also...

02:53:32.000 God, we're running out of time here.

02:53:33.000 I wish we weren't.

02:53:34.000 You were in Russia recently.

02:53:36.000 I was.

02:53:37.000 Doing some training.

02:53:38.000 Krasnodar and Novosibirsk.

02:53:39.000 You went there on your own dime just to learn.

02:53:41.000 I was working with Kadeshnikov, who was the father of Russian military martial arts.

02:53:48.000 It was pretty interesting.

02:53:49.000 This guy is like 80 years old, kind of like an Elio Gracie kind of guy.

02:53:52.000 Man, he put me in the most painful wrist lock.

02:53:54.000 This guy was saying, do something to me, you know, in Russian. 0.99

02:53:59.000 And I get into the translation, and I'm thinking, oh shit, what am I going to do to this old man? 0.99

02:54:04.000 Wow. 0.99

02:54:05.000 The guy is really amazing.

02:54:06.000 Very soft, relaxed martial art.

02:54:09.000 He was the creator of this particular Russian military martial art.

02:54:13.000 It's all geared towards military and self-defense.

02:54:17.000 What does it have its roots in?

02:54:19.000 Slavic martial art that was earlier.

02:54:21.000 There was a guy by the name of Spiridinov that studied Chinese and I'm teaching a lot of this stuff now.

02:54:48.000 I've incorporated it into my own system.

02:54:51.000 Fascinating.

02:54:51.000 So when you go and meet with a guy like that and learn his stuff, are you videotaping it?

02:54:55.000 No, no, no videotapes allowed.

02:54:57.000 So how did you, you just remembered what he said?

02:54:59.000 Yeah, I have a really good memory.

02:55:01.000 Took notes on my iPhone and so forth.

02:55:03.000 The one I lost.

02:55:05.000 Did you back it up?

02:55:06.000 Thank God for iCloud.

02:55:07.000 Ah, there you go.

02:55:08.000 You backed it up.

02:55:09.000 So, it's Sistema?

02:55:11.000 Is that what it is?

02:55:12.000 Yeah, it's called Sistema.

02:55:14.000 And there's a couple of branches of Sistema.

02:55:16.000 This is the original Sistema. 0.96

02:55:17.000 There's the group up in Toronto that does their version, the Michael Ryabko.

02:55:21.000 That's like the Phantom Punches.

02:55:23.000 Yeah, what is all that?

02:55:23.000 That's what I've seen.

02:55:24.000 A lot of that is Rehab goes punch those guys and he hurts when he punches.

02:55:29.000 It really hurts.

02:55:30.000 And what he does is he'll show the fist and the guys just fall down because they don't want to get hurt.

02:55:37.000 So he really is controlling them psychically just by intimidating them. 0.99

02:55:41.000 So he's just a hard puncher that's got a bunch of pussy whip students. 1.00

02:55:45.000 Pretty much. 0.97

02:55:46.000 But their students are pretty tough guys.

02:55:48.000 But there's something to it.

02:55:49.000 It's the breath work.

02:55:51.000 You know, Hickson came out of retirement and was doing the seminar circuit.

02:55:54.000 A black belt friend of mine in Germany, Bjorn Friedrich, he was the first German black belt in BJJ, he took Hickson's seminar.

02:56:01.000 He says, wow, he spent the first hour just in breath work and relaxation.

02:56:05.000 And that's what the Systema guys do.

02:56:07.000 Well, Kron was talking about that on the podcast as well.

02:56:09.000 It's funny because the Gracies all did it, but they never taught us. 1.00

02:56:12.000 And now they're revealing the secret.

02:56:15.000 And it really does go back to the breath.

02:56:16.000 I would love to be...

02:56:17.000 This could be a podcast in itself.

02:56:20.000 Just breath work.

02:56:20.000 Just the breath work.

02:56:21.000 Well, when are you back in L.A. again?

02:56:23.000 Well...

02:56:23.000 It may be sooner than later.

02:56:25.000 I'm thinking about doing another video download of some of the stuff I learned in Russia.

02:56:29.000 And I'm going to do three fall-long workouts that guys can do in their hotel room or while they're on the road.

02:56:35.000 Anytime, anyplace, anywhere.

02:56:36.000 And I'm going to actually do a fall-long workout.

02:56:38.000 And I love this videographer out here.

02:56:40.000 I shot a trailer for a possible reality TV show.

02:56:45.000 And that's what I was doing here in LA. Plus a book deal.

02:56:48.000 I had an article in the March issue of Men's Health and it attracted a lot of attention.

02:56:53.000 So I had an offer to come out and shoot a trailer maybe to pitch some people.

02:56:58.000 Because I'm a pretty weird dude, man.

02:57:00.000 Yeah, you're a pretty weird dude. 0.89

02:57:01.000 You're living out of a bag.

02:57:03.000 You know, I don't have a key.

02:57:05.000 No keys?

02:57:06.000 No keys because I don't have any locks to need them for.

02:57:08.000 I don't have an apartment or a house.

02:57:09.000 That doesn't ever freak you out?

02:57:11.000 Sometimes.

02:57:12.000 Does it?

02:57:12.000 Being a former householder and having a gym and a house and cars and kids.

02:57:17.000 Do you ever think you'll go back to that?

02:57:18.000 Is this temporary?

02:57:19.000 Hell no.

02:57:19.000 Once you leave all that stuff, it's so freeing, man.

02:57:22.000 Wow.

02:57:23.000 It's like real freedom.

02:57:24.000 You're an inspiration, Steve Maxwell. 1.00

02:57:26.000 You're a bad motherfucker. 1.00

02:57:27.000 Hey, you are too, Joe. 1.00

02:57:29.000 Thanks.

02:57:29.000 I appreciate you coming on, man.

02:57:30.000 This was a lot of fun.

02:57:31.000 So, folks, MaxwellSC.com.

02:57:36.000 Teresa gave me some stuff to read about.

02:57:39.000 You're in the U.S. until the 24th of May.

02:57:42.000 You have a seminar in Buffalo, the 4th of May.

02:57:45.000 Unfortunately, it's sold out.

02:57:46.000 New York, 3rd of May.

02:57:47.000 Toronto, 10th of May.

02:57:50.000 PDX, which I guess is...

02:57:53.000 Portland?

02:57:54.000 That's what they call PDX? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:57:55.000 There's Portland, Oregon.

02:57:56.000 What is PDX? I have no idea, man.

02:57:59.000 Okay, that's the 17th and 18th of May in Indianapolis, the 24th of May.

02:58:04.000 Again, all of this available on maxwellsc.com, stevemaxwellsc on Twitter.

02:58:09.000 Anything else?

02:58:10.000 Yeah, Rev Gear.

02:58:11.000 There's a MMA Expo in San Antonio, Texas, August 1, 2, 3. I'm teaching kettlebells specifically for martial arts, MMA, jiu-jitsu.

02:58:23.000 So if you want to learn about kettlebells or how to teach them better, get to the Rev Gear Expo.

02:58:32.000 It's an MMA Expo.

02:58:34.000 And will all this be on your website as well?

02:58:35.000 Yeah, it's going to be on the website.

02:58:36.000 Check out Rev Gear, man.

02:58:39.000 Maxwellsc.com.

02:58:40.000 Steve Maxwell, ladies and gentlemen.

02:58:41.000 Thank you very much, sir.

02:58:43.000 And thanks to our sponsors.

02:58:44.000 Thanks to Squarespace.

02:58:45.000 Go to squarespace.com and use the code word Joe to save yourself some cash.

02:58:51.000 Thanks also to onnit.com.

02:58:53.000 That's O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word Rogan.

02:58:56.000 Save 10% off any and all supplements.

02:58:58.000 We'll be back tomorrow with Dave Attell on Thursday.

02:59:03.000 We've got Greg Fitzsimmons, and then we're also doing the UFC, I want to say wrap-up analysis, post-fight, with Brendan Schaub and Brian Callen, the fighter and the kid.

02:59:16.000 So that's two podcasts on Thursday.

02:59:18.000 And then Friday night, I'll see you guys at the Lobero Theater in Santa Barbara with Joey Diaz.

02:59:23.000 It's almost sold out.

02:59:24.000 It might be sold out this week.

02:59:25.000 I'm not sure.

02:59:25.000 It was pretty close the other day.

02:59:27.000 All right.

02:59:27.000 Much love, everybody.

02:59:28.000 Big kiss.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 28, 2014

Joe Rogan Experience #491 - Steve Maxwell

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