The Joe Rogan Experience - August 21, 2014


Joe Rogan Experience #538 - Stefan Molyneux


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 51 minutes

Words per minute

197.11377

Word count

33,897

Sentence count

2,367

Harmful content

Misogyny

61

sentences flagged

Hate speech

61

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast, Joe talks about his recent trip to Canada with his friend Johnny Rivette. They talk about his trip, how he got there, and what it's like to live in Canada in the summer.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Greetings ladies and gentlemen and people who consider yourself neither.
00:00:04.000 Folks, it's thems. 1.00
00:00:07.000 We live in strange times.
00:00:09.000 Sometimes people don't want to be defined by a gender or anything.
00:00:13.000 They're an it and I support that.
00:00:15.000 You go, it.
00:00:17.000 You go, girl.
00:00:18.000 You go boy.
00:00:20.000 You go whatever the fuck you want to be.
00:00:21.000 You go, furries.
00:00:23.000 You go mascots.
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00:03:04.000 Why fuck around?
00:03:05.000 Let's cue the music, Jamie.
00:03:07.000 Stéphane Molyneux is here.
00:03:09.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
00:03:10.000 And so I'm.
00:03:11.000 Joe Rogan.
00:03:12.000 Experience.
00:03:13.000 Train by day.
00:03:14.000 Joe Rogan podcast by night.
00:03:16.000 All day.
00:03:18.000 Ladies and gentlemen from the dark north of Canada, the white north, enjoying the fabulous sun here.
00:03:26.000 Well, it's sunny where you are too now, right?
00:03:28.000 All right.
00:03:29.000 Staggeringly beautiful.
00:03:30.000 Beautiful in the winter.
00:03:31.000 The summertime is fantastic.
00:03:31.000 Oh, yeah.
00:03:33.000 She is a seductive bitch in the summer, Canada. 1.00
00:03:35.000 She really is.
00:03:36.000 She's like, hey, hey, come.
00:03:37.000 No problem.
00:03:38.000 Yeah, come on. 0.77
00:03:39.000 Set up a house, build some stuff, couple of bugs, no biggie, and then bam, ice fist of snow around your heart for all eternity.
00:03:45.000 Yeah, I have friends that live several hours north of Edmonton.
00:03:48.000 Oh.
00:03:49.000 Yeah.
00:03:50.000 Oh.
00:03:51.000 And I visited them in the spring, and it's fantastic.
00:03:54.000 It's just cool.
00:03:55.000 It's the green and the walleye fishing.
00:03:57.000 It's great.
00:03:58.000 Absolutely.
00:03:59.000 How do you end up living a few hours?
00:04:01.000 Like, did they disturb a mummy's tomb?
00:04:03.000 Did they get cursed in some horrifying way?
00:04:06.000 What happened?
00:04:06.000 That's a good question.
00:04:07.000 They're from there.
00:04:08.000 Are they Shrek?
00:04:09.000 Are they just dodging villagers?
00:04:11.000 They're really nice folks.
00:04:12.000 Wow.
00:04:14.000 And they're from there.
00:04:15.000 My friend Johnny Rivet and Jenny Rivet, and they actually run a hunting camp up there.
00:04:21.000 So they do a lot of their business up in the bush, as they say, the Canadian bush.
00:04:26.000 But yeah, it's so beautiful up there in the spring and summer.
00:04:29.000 Oh, yeah.
00:04:29.000 It's fantastic.
00:04:30.000 And for, you know, for a little bit in the winter, you know, pretty sparkly.
00:04:35.000 And then after a while, it just becomes this ice dungeon and you chew your way out like a ferret in an upturned aquarium.
00:04:40.000 Yeah, that's like really not good for your health.
00:04:42.000 Like your mental health at least, to be trapped in those environments.
00:04:46.000 Well, you know, so after high school, I went into college that broke.
00:04:51.000 And I got a job as a gold panner and a prospector.
00:04:54.000 And I spent about 18 months like flying camps looking for, you know, getting soil samples, looking for gold and stuff like that.
00:05:03.000 And yeah, you're in a tent for, you know, four or five months with the same people.
00:05:07.000 And they were smokers too.
00:05:08.000 So basically, it was like this little, oh, you know, I'm up north.
00:05:11.000 It's so clear or so pristine.
00:05:12.000 I was in a little tent-sized cube of smoke for six months.
00:05:16.000 I think it's going to have permanent health effects even now.
00:05:18.000 Yeah, that is one of the weird things about smokers is that they're more than willing to impose that on other people.
00:05:24.000 That's a strange thing that they don't find like it.
00:05:28.000 It would bother me if I was a smoker and I was sitting in a box with somebody and just subjecting them to my toxins.
00:05:35.000 I know it's minus 40, but come on, step outside.
00:05:37.000 I mean, how often do you go to a pool party and say, you know, I don't feel like going inside to pee?
00:05:42.000 So I'm just going to let it go.
00:05:43.000 You know, I mean, there's no non-pee side to that pool and there's no non-smoking side to a restaurant anyway.
00:05:48.000 Yeah, smoking and the other thing about smokers is there's a lot of them that don't have any problem with littering.
00:05:54.000 And I think it has something to do with the fact that they're fucking their body up.
00:05:58.000 So there's this like cognitive dissonance of like there's something involved in like you have to have a separation of clarity.
00:06:05.000 If you're willing to, it's your will.
00:06:08.000 You're lighting the cigarette, you're putting it up to your lips, you're sucking in poison, and they, so many of them throw their cigarettes on the ground.
00:06:16.000 So many of them.
00:06:17.000 And I really think there's a connection because it's very rare that you see someone drink a soda and then throw their can on the ground.
00:06:22.000 But in front of people, you'll see someone take a cigarette, throw it on the ground, step on it, and just walk away.
00:06:28.000 Like as if it's out of sight, out of mind.
00:06:31.000 I think it has a direct connection to this connection.
00:06:35.000 You could test that.
00:06:36.000 You could go to the healthiest food store.
00:06:38.000 Like up the street, there's this vegan sit-down food store or whatever.
00:06:43.000 You get a cafe, vegan cafe.
00:06:45.000 It'd be interesting to see if people come out of that with their kale shakes and just throw crap on the ground.
00:06:49.000 I bet you that almost nobody would.
00:06:51.000 But you're hanging outside some ski v pool hole with a bunch of smokers and it's all litter out front.
00:06:57.000 Yeah, your body is the world is all that kind of stuff, I think.
00:07:00.000 Yeah, it's like the one thing where it's really common to litter with.
00:07:07.000 Survey says, if you want Family Feud, most common thing to litter. 0.99
00:07:11.000 I'm on doing the old dude who's dead.
00:07:13.000 Meanwhile, it's been five guys.
00:07:15.000 Richard Dawson from Richard Dawson, that's right.
00:07:17.000 From Hogan's Heroes.
00:07:19.000 Wow.
00:07:19.000 Remember?
00:07:19.000 Yeah.
00:07:20.000 But now it's Steve Harvey.
00:07:22.000 Yeah, it's not the same.
00:07:23.000 But yeah, I would think that that would be like the number one thing.
00:07:25.000 Like cigarettes.
00:07:26.000 So you were stuck in this tent with these dudes and they didn't have any problem smoking in front of you in a tent?
00:07:31.000 Just non-stop.
00:07:32.000 And they were like, they weren't even like, they were like light cigarettes off the previous cigarette.
00:07:37.000 Like, I think they're the kind of smokers who, other than sleeping, had not had a breath of fresh air in about 10 years.
00:07:43.000 Like, they hadn't had anything coming into their lungs that wasn't tar-based.
00:07:47.000 And I know one of them's dead now, and I'm not sure where the other one is, but...
00:07:57.000 One of the weirdest things you'd have to pay attention to.
00:07:59.000 Like, how the fuck did that take root on so many people?
00:08:03.000 No, it's a legitimate payback for the smallpox-laced blankets that the early settlers gave the Indians.
00:08:09.000 It's like, okay, fine, Whitey, you can give us a TB-laced blankets. 0.99
00:08:12.000 Here, smoke this.
00:08:13.000 And like, ooh, that's good.
00:08:14.000 Well, it's going to wipe out more of us than of you, but it'll take time and it'll go with a smile on our face.
00:08:18.000 Well, I wonder, I don't think they use tobacco in the same way.
00:08:22.000 I think most Native tribes that use tobacco, they use it like a cigar or like a pipe, but they're not inhaling it.
00:08:28.000 They just get it into their mouth.
00:08:30.000 And when you get it into your mouth, it gets into your bloodstream.
00:08:33.000 You get the nicotine.
00:08:34.000 That's why you can get cancer from cigars, but it's more rare.
00:08:40.000 Even people that are like really radical.
00:08:42.000 That's like the Freudian cancer because he had like 20 cigars a day and he got, I think, half his cheek eaten away with cancer and stuff like that towards the end of his life.
00:08:49.000 Yeah, a lot of the chewers get that too.
00:08:52.000 Those people that keep that stuff tucked in between their lip and gum.
00:08:56.000 Weird habits.
00:08:57.000 Yeah, but it's not that common with pipe smokers.
00:09:01.000 Pipe smokers, that's the original way to do it. 1.00
00:09:04.000 You just sort of take in the nicotine.
00:09:06.000 In fact, nicotine is like a part of a lot of psychedelic rituals in the Amazon.
00:09:11.000 They blow nicotine smoke.
00:09:13.000 They blow tobacco smoke on the people that are going through these psychedelic rituals.
00:09:17.000 Yeah, I don't know, for whatever reason.
00:09:19.000 I don't know how the fuck we got on this episode.
00:09:21.000 But so I was on Anna Kasparian's show.
00:09:26.000 You're good buddy, you're good friends yesterday, and we had some interesting conversations, and part of it was about you.
00:09:33.000 And I appreciate that.
00:09:34.000 You know, we were talking just before the show.
00:09:35.000 I don't care what you say about me, just make sure you spell my name right.
00:09:38.000 Well, that's what I was telling her in a way.
00:09:39.000 I was saying, you know, she was getting upset, you know, the things that you had said about what she had said.
00:09:44.000 And I said, well, you got to, look, there's a weird thing that goes on where people make these sort of call-out videos.
00:09:51.000 You know, everybody likes to do a call-out video, but nobody likes a call-out video turned on them.
00:09:56.000 And what Anna did is essentially she listened to Adam Corolla's rant about conservatism, and she made a rant about that, and then you made a rant about her rant, and then she's pissed at your rant about her rant, about Adam's rant.
00:10:12.000 I'm like, first of all, this is like an incredibly ineffective way to communicate.
00:10:16.000 You know, when people like, that's one of the things that I don't like about blogs.
00:10:20.000 I think blog entries are great in some ways because I think it gives someone an opportunity to really expand on their thoughts.
00:10:27.000 And you put a lot of energy and effort into writing something down.
00:10:31.000 Whereas I think you might be able to get in a deeper detail than you would in a conversation where you're perhaps searching for words or trying to clarify like a lot of things you need to look up and you can't do that necessarily in a debate.
00:10:43.000 So it's nice having a back and forth when it's database.
00:10:45.000 Sorry, go ahead.
00:10:46.000 But it's a massive amount of time involved and it doesn't give the other person the opportunity to respond.
00:10:53.000 And when you do it, like one person goes on this long rant describing you in very disparaging terms and minimizes you and then you have to respond to that.
00:11:04.000 And then you go there.
00:11:05.000 It's way better to just sit down and talk through ideas.
00:11:08.000 So there's a lot of these ideas that you have said that are very controversial that we're going to give you an opportunity.
00:11:15.000 Hello, me?
00:11:16.000 There's no way I can think I know it's crazy.
00:11:17.000 No, and to be fair, I mean, I was working on the flight down.
00:11:21.000 I was working on a response.
00:11:23.000 I was hoping to go in and talk to them.
00:11:25.000 We tweeted them and emailed them and said maybe we could go and have a debate.
00:11:28.000 I think that would be interesting and fun.
00:11:29.000 Yes.
00:11:30.000 And useful.
00:11:31.000 I mean, very important issues that are being talked about, but we didn't hear about it.
00:11:35.000 Yeah, well, you probably pissed her off. 1.00
00:11:37.000 You know, that's what I'm saying.
00:11:38.000 I mean, if you're not annoyed, it's not a good debate.
00:11:38.000 Good.
00:11:40.000 It means it's not that important, right?
00:11:42.000 I guess.
00:11:42.000 Yeah, I guess.
00:11:46.000 The core of the conversation was Adam's position on being a conservative and how the term conservative has become a pejorative.
00:11:54.000 And then the term conservative has become a negative way of describing a person's behavior and a person's thoughts.
00:12:02.000 It's more like, it seems that it's become maybe like a badge of callousness or a descriptive term of someone who is insensitive or who does not care about the underclass, who does not care about poverty, does not care about poor people.
00:12:19.000 And, you know, she had this take on it and then you had a take on her take on it.
00:12:26.000 Do you consider yourself conservative?
00:12:28.000 You consider yourself a libertarian, right?
00:12:29.000 I'm an anarchist.
00:12:31.000 An anarchist.
00:12:31.000 And what does that exactly entail?
00:12:34.000 Exactly.
00:12:35.000 Well, I mean, so, and I was a resistant anarchist.
00:12:38.000 Like, for me, I was 20 years what's called like a minarchist.
00:12:41.000 It came sort of out of the objectivist Ayn Rand school, where your government is basically law and national defense, maybe a court system, maybe that sort of tiny, tiny government.
00:12:51.000 It's called the night watchman state, which is, you know, keep other people's mitts off my stuff and keep their shivs out of my kidney kind of thing. 0.94
00:12:58.000 That's the basic function of government.
00:13:00.000 And I was like, but it always bothered me because that would still have to be funded through taxation, right?
00:13:06.000 And Taxation, philosophically, morally, is the initiation of force, right?
00:13:10.000 I mean, it's like, I have a good idea, you have to pay for it.
00:13:13.000 And if you don't pay for it, you are going to get some letters.
00:13:15.000 And if you don't pay for it still, we're going to send some people over to your house in blue costumes.
00:13:19.000 And if you don't pay for it still, they're going to take you off to jail.
00:13:21.000 And so it is the initiation of force.
00:13:23.000 And that always bothered me.
00:13:25.000 And I guess it was about 2006.
00:13:30.000 I just gave up the ghost as far as that goes.
00:13:34.000 Nobody wants to go in these particular directions.
00:13:36.000 It's just principles, right?
00:13:37.000 You have to sort of hang on to your principles no matter what, right?
00:13:40.000 So if you're into the non-initiation of force, right?
00:13:43.000 That self-defense, perfectly morally legitimate, but you can't go around popping people in the head without provocation.
00:13:48.000 You can't go around stealing people's stuff.
00:13:50.000 So the non-initiation of force, and if you accept that as a principle, and if you try to get philosophy as close to like the physical sciences, physical sciences, they don't have exceptions.
00:13:58.000 You know, they say, well, this rock will fall this fast in Kazakhstan and this fast in Philadelphia.
00:14:05.000 I mean, this is universal, right?
00:14:07.000 So if you're going to go with the non-aggression principle, then the concept of government is morally illegitimate because the government is that group of people in a geographical area that initiate the use of force against others.
00:14:21.000 And some people agree with it and some people don't, but those who don't do end up being on the receiving end of force that they don't agree with.
00:14:28.000 So in an anarchist state, the idea would be that there would be no taxes.
00:14:33.000 So how would people fund roads?
00:14:35.000 Would they voluntarily donate?
00:14:38.000 How would they fund education?
00:14:40.000 How would things get done?
00:14:42.000 Well, the first answer is I have no idea.
00:14:46.000 Because I mean, if you could design a future, then everyone should put me in charge of everything.
00:14:50.000 And that wouldn't make any sense.
00:14:52.000 People build roads.
00:14:53.000 Government don't build roads.
00:14:54.000 And there's no entity called government.
00:14:56.000 It's like this big amorphous flag that goes around and lays the tarmac.
00:14:59.000 It's just people who receive money.
00:15:01.000 So I mean, if you're going to build a bunch of houses, you have to build a road there.
00:15:06.000 I mean, malls build parking lots, airports build roads.
00:15:10.000 It's not government.
00:15:11.000 It's all private.
00:15:12.000 And, you know, in a GPS, you could charge people.
00:15:15.000 You know, there's a private highway up in Canada where, you know, they take a photo of your license plate or if you have a transponder, it's even cheaper.
00:15:21.000 And they just charge you when you go on.
00:15:23.000 And however, you know, when you go off, then they charge you for that.
00:15:26.000 Isn't that taxing you?
00:15:27.000 Well, no, because that's voluntary.
00:15:29.000 It's paying for use.
00:15:30.000 Well, it's voluntary that you use it.
00:15:32.000 But if you have to get over there, is there other options without paying?
00:15:36.000 Sure.
00:15:37.000 There's other roads.
00:15:37.000 Oh, yeah, but I mean, because there will be competition, right?
00:15:40.000 I mean, hopefully, well, not to the point of wasteful duplication because that would not be very efficient economically.
00:15:44.000 Yeah, but there's 100 roads going the exact same direction all side by side, one cost a dollar.
00:15:48.000 Well, that's a lot of competition, but I haven't seen a tree in four days.
00:15:52.000 Or it'd be like, you know, the movie Brazil where they have those billboards maybe on either side.
00:15:56.000 So I think you're pretty open in the idea that you don't have a solution, but what you're doing is saying that the current problem is unacceptable.
00:16:03.000 Is that a fair way of assessing your take on current problems?
00:16:07.000 Yeah, I mean, technically, it's not good philosophy to have a universal called the non-aggression principle, which you and I and this fine fellow here and the listeners, we all accept, right?
00:16:19.000 We're all here voluntarily.
00:16:21.000 You don't force anyone to come to your shows.
00:16:23.000 I don't force anyone to listen to what I do.
00:16:25.000 So we all accept that at our personal level.
00:16:27.000 And that's what we teach our kids, right?
00:16:28.000 Don't hit, don't take other people's stuff, don't push, you know, all that kind of stuff.
00:16:32.000 And so if we're going to have these rules, you know, much like science, like how far can we push these rules?
00:16:37.000 Now, I think that it's kind of wrong to say, well, we have these rules, but right up to here, we'll completely abandon them and go to the opposite.
00:16:45.000 Or at least we need to acknowledge that is what's going on in society.
00:16:48.000 So if we say that the non-aggression principle is the way that we should live, well, the government is just people.
00:16:53.000 How do they get this get out of jail free card where they can do stuff that is specifically illegal for the private citizens, like print money, like take out debts on behalf of other people?
00:17:01.000 You and I can't do that.
00:17:02.000 I can't go buy a car and send you the bill.
00:17:05.000 And they can invade countries.
00:17:07.000 They can force people to pay for things.
00:17:09.000 They can incarcerate huge numbers of people, largely on a whim.
00:17:12.000 They can tell people who are doing things like drugs, which is a purely voluntary form of enjoyment and self-medication, they can throw them in jail.
00:17:19.000 I can't do that.
00:17:20.000 You can't do that.
00:17:21.000 If I want to pay for my kids' education, I don't get to walk up and down the street with a machete saying pay or die.
00:17:25.000 I mean, but this is the way that we've set up, or the way we've inherited society.
00:17:28.000 Sorry, I don't want to go on too big a rant.
00:17:30.000 No, but it's a good rant.
00:17:32.000 It's a good point as well.
00:17:33.000 The idea that society has been sort of inherited.
00:17:37.000 You know, that we have sort of been born into this system that is really not that well engineered and has massive flaws in it.
00:17:45.000 And it's a very good point when you talk about the reinforce the taxes, like enforcing tax laws, that you can lock people in jail for owing money.
00:17:56.000 It's one of the only times where someone gets locked in a cage because they owe money, even if you choose to pay that money.
00:18:03.000 Wesley Snipes is a perfect example, the actor, chose to not pay his taxes based on an erroneous belief.
00:18:10.000 He had this belief that the Constitution does not force you to pay taxes and that it's a misunderstanding that if you fight it in court, you would win.
00:18:19.000 He had these terrible advisors.
00:18:21.000 So he decided to not pay taxes for a long time and he made a really large sum of money.
00:18:26.000 And that is when they go after you.
00:18:29.000 When you're one of those people that is already the privileged few making an exorbitant amount of money and then you step up and say you don't have to pay taxes and you do it blatantly.
00:18:38.000 It didn't even matter if he tried to pay the money back.
00:18:41.000 They were going to lock him in jail no matter what.
00:18:42.000 They're like, this is, it's a crime.
00:18:45.000 And it's the only time it's a crime to owe money.
00:18:47.000 You know, every other time it's like we have a debt and, you know, well, you have to pay that debt off.
00:18:52.000 Like, say if I loaned you 100 bucks and we went to court and the court found out that you didn't pay me that 100 bucks, you don't go to jail.
00:18:59.000 You just have to pay me the 100 bucks.
00:19:00.000 But if you owe the government 100 bucks, they have the option to lock you in a cage.
00:19:04.000 And that to me is sort of akin to shitty parenting.
00:19:09.000 You're a strong believer in not hitting kids and not screaming at them.
00:19:14.000 And if you're tired and you're dumb and your kid doesn't want to listen, one of the best ways to get them to listen to you is violent force or fear.
00:19:23.000 Those are the best ways.
00:19:24.000 And it's been a huge problem throughout, you know, as far as recorded history.
00:19:31.000 I mean, people have been beating their kids.
00:19:33.000 People have been yelling at their kids.
00:19:34.000 People have actually even defended it.
00:19:36.000 and I think that this lazy use of force is very similar to what the government does.
00:19:42.000 It's almost like they feel like their hands are tied.
00:19:44.000 There's 350 million people they have to get money from.
00:19:46.000 What's the best way to do it?
00:19:47.000 Scare the fuck out of them.
00:19:48.000 Lock that actor in jail, that Wesley snipes.
00:19:50.000 You put him in a cage, make an example out of him.
00:19:53.000 And anybody else that steps out of line, lock them in cage, too.
00:19:56.000 Lauren Hill, too.
00:19:57.000 Lauren Hill for the Fuji.
00:19:58.000 She's a solo artist, a fantastic singer.
00:20:01.000 Yeah, she's serenading like James Brown in the echoing halls of the incarceration station.
00:20:07.000 And no one talks about that either.
00:20:08.000 She never hurt anybody.
00:20:10.000 She didn't do anything.
00:20:10.000 She's got some wacky ideas.
00:20:12.000 You ever heard that broad talk?
00:20:13.000 Woo.
00:20:14.000 Well, you know, if you're pretty intalented, sometimes people don't step up to say.
00:20:18.000 But the other thing, too, is that there are things that I find extremely morally objectionable.
00:20:24.000 Like at a skin-crawling, visceral base of the spine electrification kind of feeling.
00:20:29.000 Like, I hate the imperialism of a lot of the Western countries, particularly in America, right?
00:20:35.000 The invasions of Iraq and all that. 0.95
00:20:37.000 I find that stuff unbelievably reprehensible.
00:20:39.000 And as you can see, the entire society has disintegrated now.
00:20:43.000 I hate the war on drugs.
00:20:44.000 I really, I mean, at a very visceral, fundamental level, I think it is absolutely abhorrent and destructive.
00:20:51.000 You know, we saw some of the, I think the shakeout of that in Ferguson, Missouri recently, which I think war on drugs had a lot to do with that stuff.
00:20:57.000 And the fact that I'm forced to fund this, it goes violently against my conscience.
00:21:03.000 And I feel very helpless to not support the things that I find incredibly objectionable and incredibly destructive to particularly minorities. 1.00
00:21:14.000 It's unbelievably horrendous.
00:21:16.000 And I'd like to have the right to say no.
00:21:17.000 I really would like to have the right to say no to that kind of stuff.
00:21:20.000 There's lots.
00:21:20.000 I mean, I do charitable work and I give away my shows for free and I'm very happy to share whatever goodies I've accumulated in life with people who are less fortunate or needy.
00:21:28.000 But there's so much that goes on in the world that governments do that I find just so horrendous.
00:21:35.000 And I would really like none of the above as one of the options.
00:21:40.000 Yeah, none of the above, but how do these things get funded then?
00:21:45.000 How would they fund war?
00:21:46.000 How would they fund, you know.
00:21:48.000 That would be very tricky.
00:21:49.000 They would have to get creative.
00:21:51.000 Yeah, I was listening to Hardcore History.
00:21:52.000 You ever listen to Hardcore History?
00:21:54.000 Dan Carlins?
00:21:54.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:21:55.000 We found some shows together.
00:21:56.000 Yeah, he's a fantastic show.
00:21:57.000 I really love it.
00:21:58.000 And he's got a new episode, and it's about World War I. And it goes into great detail about the massive losses that were just wrecking the French forces and the German artillery and all this shit that was going on.
00:22:15.000 And how it was becoming increasingly difficult to get people to sign up for the war, especially with the English folks trying to get them to sign up.
00:22:24.000 Like it had gotten to the point where they had lost 500,000 people, 500,000 casualties in a short period of time.
00:22:30.000 And it gets to that point where people aren't buying it anymore.
00:22:35.000 In the beginning, it was easy to coerce people into doing it by...
00:22:45.000 The white feathers.
00:22:46.000 Yeah, they would put a white feather on you if you weren't in uniform, if you weren't a military person, you were a coward.
00:22:54.000 You were considered to be a coward.
00:22:55.000 And it was so much so that they had to kind of figure out a way to not do it because there were many people that were involved in the war effort that weren't soldiers, the people that were building munitions, the people that were making guns, and people that were involved in all sorts of different levels of government that weren't cowards in their eyes, but they were getting attacked the same way everybody else was.
00:23:13.000 It was sort of like a feeding frenzy.
00:23:15.000 And it's interesting to see, especially when you're talking about the early 1900s, essentially 100 years ago, talking about this, the use of manipulation of trying to get people to go along with war, especially back then when there was so much less information available to the average person.
00:23:33.000 Whereas today, trying to get someone to go along with war is far more difficult, far more problematic.
00:23:40.000 Well, and there's this terrible power that the government has to create money at will, which the First World War largely engendered.
00:23:46.000 And the First World War could not have been fought on the gold reserves that the countries had at the time.
00:23:50.000 It would have been over in six to 12 months.
00:23:53.000 And so right now, they could just create this money out of thin air, right?
00:23:56.000 So, I mean, the war in Iraq did not come with equivalent, the war on terror did not come with equivalent massive tax increases to pay for it because they just printed all this money.
00:24:04.000 And this messed up the economy.
00:24:05.000 It was a significant contributor to the housing crash and all of the mess that's gone on ever since then.
00:24:10.000 And so for me, it's like, well, wouldn't this make war more difficult if you had sort of privatized defense systems?
00:24:16.000 It's like, yes, yes, yes, that's what we want.
00:24:20.000 Let's make more difficult to embark on and pursue and make sure that it's defensive.
00:24:25.000 Aggressive wars are very expensive.
00:24:26.000 Defensive wars are relatively cheap.
00:24:28.000 I mean, look at what defeated, in a sense, the American military in Iraq.
00:24:33.000 I mean, what was the cost?
00:24:34.000 How much did America spend versus how much did the people defending themselves spend?
00:24:39.000 Look at Vietnam. 0.89
00:24:41.000 What people were defending themselves in Iraq.
00:24:43.000 The insurgency essentially is a bloodbath, though.
00:24:46.000 But just on tones, a dollar cost, right?
00:24:48.000 So you can bring down a $20 million plane with a $20,000 Stinger missile.
00:24:52.000 Attacking is very expensive.
00:24:53.000 Defending is very cheap.
00:24:55.000 But look at how poor a job they did of defending.
00:24:57.000 I mean, a million civilians were wiped out.
00:25:00.000 Their entire country was essentially taken over.
00:25:02.000 The only reason why they don't, the United States doesn't have full power of Iraq is because that was never the objective in the first place and because we abandoned it and pulled out. 0.83
00:25:10.000 I mean, their defense of the military, the United States military, was woefully ineffective.
00:25:17.000 So like saying that it's inexpensive is kind of silly.
00:25:20.000 No, no, no, I just mean it's incredibly ineffective.
00:25:22.000 Well, but the goal, at least the stated goal of the leaders of al-Qaeda was to provoke America into the same kind of war that Russia got into in Afghanistan that broke the Russian economy and collapsed their empire.
00:25:35.000 It was to get America to start waging war in a way that was much more costly to the Americans.
00:25:40.000 I mean, human side, I agree with you.
00:25:41.000 I mean, Iraq is just a complete mess. 1.00
00:25:43.000 And not just physical, but genetic damage from all of these depleted uranium shells.
00:25:48.000 They've wiped out the genetics of an entire population.
00:25:51.000 Birth defects and leukemia.
00:25:53.000 And I mean, it's literally like hell.
00:25:55.000 Well, since Desert Storm, since the first one.
00:25:58.000 Yeah, since the first one, but even more so, I think, in the second.
00:26:01.000 But from a pure dollars and cents standpoint, their goal was get America into these unwinnable wars against these insurgents.
00:26:08.000 Because, I mean, this is what the CIA taught Bin Laden in the 80s with the Mujahideen, was go get the Russians to come in and then just keep pinging them off and pinging them off and pinging them off until they go broke. 0.61
00:26:18.000 Well, we're talking about two completely different locations now.
00:26:20.000 We're talking about Iraq and Afghanistan, two completely different environments.
00:26:23.000 And Afghanistan, one of the reasons why it's almost an entirely unwinnable war is because of the terrain.
00:26:30.000 I mean, Afghanistan is like trying to fight a battle in the Rocky Mountains. 0.86
00:26:33.000 I mean, it's insane.
00:26:35.000 I mean, if you look at the terrain that these people are involved with, it's just crazy.
00:26:39.000 It's mountains and there's no cities.
00:26:41.000 You have warlords that own these particular parcels of land, and it's a crazy, crazy place.
00:26:50.000 The idea of taking over Afghanistan, I mean, you would literally have to comb the mountainside and pull everybody out and camp them or something. 0.78
00:26:58.000 I mean, there's no way.
00:27:01.000 There's no cities to take over.
00:27:03.000 It's a completely unwinnable geographic situation.
00:27:07.000 But Iraq, totally different story. 0.76
00:27:12.000 So you've got a lot of places you can take over.
00:27:15.000 But if we were invaded like that in this anarchist version of society, what would you do?
00:27:22.000 I mean, you obviously couldn't force your version of society on other people.
00:27:26.000 If you have dictatorships like, say, North Korea or something along those lines that has a strong military power and decided to invade, what do you do in an anarchist society?
00:27:36.000 So let's say you have an anarchist society and next door you have some status society, right?
00:27:36.000 I mean, that's easy.
00:27:43.000 Okay, I mean, there's a couple of answers, which, you know, who knows, right?
00:27:47.000 But one of the answers is that invading an anarchist country is pretty tough because what are you going to take over?
00:27:54.000 So if you look at countries that invade other countries, they take over the tax system. 0.58
00:27:58.000 natural resources.
00:27:59.000 Well, to some degree.
00:28:03.000 It's like the hugest reason.
00:28:05.000 Well, I'm not sure.
00:28:06.000 I mean, that doesn't really explain much about Afghanistan, although there are some arguments that have lots of minerals.
00:28:12.000 Trillions of dollars in minerals.
00:28:14.000 But you can get that stuff through trade, right?
00:28:15.000 I mean, you don't have to go and invade Afghanistan.
00:28:17.000 Why would you do that when you can just take it?
00:28:19.000 You have no cities, you have Kabul, and then you have like a bunch of dudes with goats. 0.98
00:28:23.000 And you go, yeah, I think we're going to just go over there and take your shit.
00:28:26.000 Why would you do that when you're this giant military force?
00:28:29.000 And you also make money in invading.
00:28:32.000 Because the people that are contractors that get government funds to go over there and spend money on tanks and planes, and it's a huge business.
00:28:41.000 The business of the military-industrial complex cannot be denied.
00:28:45.000 But have they made money?
00:28:46.000 Because I know that there's a theory.
00:28:48.000 So who's made money from the invasion of Afghanistan?
00:28:48.000 They have.
00:28:51.000 First of all, Halliburton.
00:28:52.000 No, no, that's maximum.
00:28:52.000 Halliburton.
00:28:54.000 But in terms of the minerals, like in terms of getting the minerals, because I know they're there, for sure.
00:28:58.000 Yes.
00:28:58.000 But who's actually making money from that?
00:29:00.000 Well, they haven't yet because they have to figure out a way to extract them.
00:29:03.000 It's lithium.
00:29:04.000 There's a lot of minerals that we need for Tesla cars and cell phones and all the battery-operated things that we use.
00:29:10.000 For the most part, we use lithium-ion.
00:29:12.000 That's the current technology.
00:29:13.000 And trillions of dollars worth of that stuff in Afghanistan.
00:29:16.000 One of the biggest supplies of it in the world.
00:29:18.000 Right.
00:29:19.000 Well, okay, so they've located it, and it's like, even if it hasn't been extracted, it's like, we're not going to let anybody else go over and control that area because you're talking about massive, massive amounts of money and resources.
00:29:32.000 Well, it sort of remains then to be seen because if the argument is, well, they went in for the resources, they've been in there for, what, 12 years now?
00:29:38.000 And if they still haven't extracted the resources, that argument, I think it's much more around Halliburton and the military-industrial complex making a huge amount of money by basically picking the pockets of the unborn through inflation and debt.
00:29:49.000 So I think that's much more immediate.
00:29:50.000 I don't think that's like a 12 or 15-year plan to get the resources.
00:29:53.000 I think that's maybe something that's in the back pocket, but I think they really make money off the Fed.
00:29:57.000 That's the Fed printing money.
00:29:58.000 Yeah, that's certainly the current way that they're making money, but I don't think it's an either-or.
00:30:03.000 I think without a doubt, there's plans on trying to figure out how to get those resources.
00:30:09.000 But I think that's the main reason why people invade countries. 0.54
00:30:13.000 It's natural resources.
00:30:14.000 They don't invade because they want to control the population for no reason and turn them into slaves.
00:30:19.000 They invade because they need something that the other people have.
00:30:23.000 Okay, so I mean, Germany would generally invade countries, though, when they invade Czechoslovakia and Austria and France and so on, they invaded and took over the tax base so that they got all the tax money and they got the gold and all that. 0.51
00:30:34.000 So if there's no tax structure, then it's less profitable to invade and take over a country.
00:30:40.000 It's not a final argument.
00:30:41.000 That's sort of one thing.
00:30:43.000 It's sort of like if you've got two areas that you're thinking of taking over, one of them is a farm and the other one is just a forest with nothing there.
00:30:50.000 You'd want to take over the farm because everyone's already domesticated and there's already a system of production.
00:30:54.000 So the farm is like the government system where the human livestock, the tax livestock, already domesticated, the whole system of payment is all set up and so on.
00:31:02.000 So it's more profitable usually if you want to just get money and resources to go into an existing country with a state.
00:31:09.000 To go into a country without a state, it's tougher.
00:31:12.000 You can still do it, but you don't have that farm domestication production system all set up for you to take over.
00:31:18.000 The second thing is that nuclear weapons generally mean you don't get invaded.
00:31:23.000 I mean, why did Europe suddenly find kumbaya, you know, let's hold hands and be peaceful after 10 billion years of warfare?
00:31:31.000 Because they got nuclear weapons in the post-Second World War period.
00:31:33.000 And with nuclear weapons, suddenly it's like, blessed are the peacemakers.
00:31:36.000 So, of course, you know, if you get a couple of nukes, then you're most likely not going to be able to do that.
00:31:41.000 Right.
00:31:41.000 And how do those nukes get funded?
00:31:43.000 They get funded by most people.
00:31:44.000 They still will pay.
00:31:45.000 No, no, no.
00:31:45.000 But taxes.
00:31:46.000 No, no, just look.
00:31:47.000 Isn't it?
00:31:47.000 No, no, that's, but this is the thing, right?
00:31:49.000 I mean, because, and this is what I was making the beef at with Anna as well, something needs to be done going to say, therefore, we need a coercive redistributionistic state, is, to me, sort of similar to saying, well, where do we come from?
00:32:02.000 Well, God made us.
00:32:03.000 It's not really much of an answer, right?
00:32:05.000 So yes, you'll need nukes.
00:32:07.000 Now, running a nuke for a population of any kind of size, having a couple of nukes, will cost you like five bucks a year, $10 a year, for everyone to chip in.
00:32:14.000 People will generally do that.
00:32:15.000 People tip waiters, right?
00:32:17.000 I mean, you've worked in nightclubs, the waiters start starving and emaciated, right?
00:32:20.000 So people will generally pay for things that can be shown have value to them.
00:32:24.000 But aren't you, I mean, the non-violent principle?
00:32:27.000 Aren't you the person that doesn't advocate violence, doesn't want war, doesn't want to be a war?
00:32:32.000 Non-initiation for self-defense is different.
00:32:34.000 Okay, so you're in favor of using nuclear weapons for self-defense?
00:32:38.000 I think it's one possibility.
00:32:39.000 It's one possibility.
00:32:41.000 The execution of nuclear weapons?
00:32:42.000 I would absolutely view that as a last resort, for sure.
00:32:45.000 Because, of course, there's so many innocents who get caught up in that.
00:32:47.000 Let me give you another couple of possibilities.
00:32:49.000 Okay.
00:32:49.000 There are weapons you can create that are targeted to people's specific DNA.
00:32:53.000 In other words, you can release an illness that only will kill somebody's specific DNA.
00:32:58.000 Oh, that sounds like a fucking dream.
00:33:00.000 That doesn't seem like it would be possible.
00:33:02.000 I'm telling you.
00:33:03.000 I'm telling you.
00:33:03.000 Has it been done?
00:33:04.000 Is that a proof of concept?
00:33:06.000 I'm not sure if it's been done, but there's certainly ways of targeting people.
00:33:09.000 It's the start of a movie where shit gets terribly out of control and then it's Mad Max.
00:33:14.000 Well, but whether or not, right, when you have a bunch of people who all have governments invading each other, there's kind of an unwritten rule which says don't target the leaders because they don't want that to happen.
00:33:23.000 On the other hand, an anarchic society is perfectly comfortable targeting leaders, which would really be the best thing to do.
00:33:29.000 I would much rather target a leader and disable that person or even kill them if that leader was initiating aggression against a free society.
00:33:37.000 That to me would be the way to go.
00:33:39.000 And that would be a significant disincentive.
00:33:43.000 That sounds like a beautiful idea, but that seems highly unlikely.
00:33:48.000 I mean, past the first hurdle.
00:33:49.000 Yeah, but doesn't that seem highly unlikely that anybody would be able to engineer a genetic disease that's going to cause peace?
00:33:57.000 That seems like if that's the way to go about doing this, I mean, is that the only way to do that?
00:34:02.000 If you can target the leaders of people who are going to invade you, that just seems to me like the best sense, right?
00:34:06.000 I mean, why are all the serfs killing each other in France in the First World War?
00:34:11.000 It's the leaders who started it all, who, you know, that old Pink Floyd son, you know, general sat while the lines on the map moved from side to side?
00:34:18.000 I mean, it's the generals who are starting the war.
00:34:20.000 Well, it's a different time.
00:34:22.000 You know, back then, it's completely different because the only way you were getting information was through newspapers.
00:34:27.000 And you weren't able to have independent journalists giving you the full facts of the situation like we're able to today.
00:34:34.000 But if you did do that, you create a power vacuum.
00:34:38.000 One of the things that people don't understand about what's going on in Chicago, everyone's like, why is there so much violence in Chicago?
00:34:44.000 I talked to a cop when I was in Chicago, and he gave me a unique point of view.
00:34:48.000 And what he said was, what happened is they arrested some of the big-name drug dealers.
00:34:52.000 They arrested some of the top dogs.
00:34:54.000 And when they arrested these guys, they created a power vacuum.
00:34:57.000 And boom, that's what's going on.
00:34:59.000 That's also what we see going on in the Middle East with ISIS.
00:35:02.000 What that is, is we see a power vacuum.
00:35:04.000 The United States is pulling out of Iraq.
00:35:06.000 And then we're being forced to go back in there now and try to deal with this.
00:35:10.000 Was that journalist that was just beheaded?
00:35:12.000 Fucking crazy shit going on.
00:35:14.000 These guys, the ISIS videos that they're putting out on YouTube, it's like they're taking extremism to a completely new level.
00:35:21.000 They're taking violence and they're taking the shockingness of it all, the fear tactics.
00:35:28.000 They're taking it to a whole new level.
00:35:29.000 Putting these execution videos on YouTube.
00:35:31.000 Brutal, brutal videos.
00:35:33.000 I don't know how they're on YouTube.
00:35:35.000 Got taken down right away, but.
00:35:36.000 They weren't, though.
00:35:37.000 There was over 100,000 views and it had been up for a couple of months.
00:35:39.000 This one that I watched.
00:35:41.000 Yeah.
00:35:41.000 It had been up for at least 30 days.
00:35:44.000 I know that for a fact.
00:35:45.000 And it was over 100,000 views.
00:35:47.000 And it was brutal.
00:35:48.000 It was execution style.
00:35:49.000 They were shooting these guys that were on the ground and they cut this guy's head off while he was alive.
00:35:54.000 That's a power vacuum.
00:35:55.000 I mean, that's the result of a power vacuum from the United States pulling out.
00:35:59.000 I don't know.
00:36:00.000 I mean, I think this idea of this anarchistic society is interesting.
00:36:05.000 It's an interesting alternative.
00:36:06.000 It's certainly, look, the society that we have right now has massive flaws.
00:36:10.000 It's certainly open for improvement.
00:36:12.000 But I don't know how you fight off bad guys.
00:36:16.000 I just don't know.
00:36:18.000 Well, but that is to not view certain aspects of the state as the bad guys.
00:36:26.000 So to me, I think there's better ways to protect my property than giving people the right to take half of it away at gunpoint.
00:36:33.000 That doesn't seem sort of logical.
00:36:35.000 And I don't know how it's going to go, but let me give you an analogy.
00:36:37.000 And I've used this before, and I'll keep it brief.
00:36:39.000 But we've learned how to do without evil and problematic institutions before.
00:36:45.000 I mean, the institution of slavery, obviously, was central throughout human history, all throughout the world, for all of human history that has ever been known or recorded.
00:36:54.000 So like 100,000 years, basically, people had slaves.
00:36:58.000 And then there was a crazy bunch of people who came along and said this stuff is wrong and bad and so on.
00:37:03.000 And people spent a lot of time and energy and money to end slavery.
00:37:07.000 And now we have, I think, some fantastic benefits from that.
00:37:10.000 You know, we have, I mean, obviously a more moral society.
00:37:14.000 We have better economic efficiency and all that kind of slaves was very inefficient.
00:37:18.000 So we do end the subjugation of women and things like that. 0.97
00:37:20.000 Like there's things where we've said, or serfdom or bondage for debt.
00:37:27.000 There's things that we've done away with that haven't created necessarily the same kind of power vacuum.
00:37:31.000 Like when we get away with things from a moral standpoint, there usually isn't a power vacuum.
00:37:35.000 If there's some decapitation of power without principles behind it, then people rush in to fix it.
00:37:41.000 But I think we're not done yet as a species.
00:37:43.000 I think we have more to go.
00:37:45.000 And I think the question of the state is one that we really need to examine.
00:37:48.000 So if you were to say to somebody in like the 17th century, you say, okay, wait a second, almost like basically all agricultural productivity is done by slaves.
00:37:57.000 So if you get rid of slaves, what's going to happen?
00:38:00.000 Right?
00:38:01.000 And if I were to say to you, oh man, I got a great idea.
00:38:03.000 Here's how it's going to work.
00:38:04.000 We're going to have these giant robots that go sweeping through the fields, which have the energy of a thousand horses, and they run on the crushed tree juice from the dinosaur era.
00:38:18.000 And you'd say, what the hell are you talking about?
00:38:21.000 That's impossible.
00:38:22.000 It makes no sense.
00:38:23.000 It could never happen.
00:38:24.000 But that is what happened.
00:38:25.000 We get these giant combine harvests that run on gasoline and oil that comes out of crushed trees from hundreds of millions of years ago.
00:38:32.000 So what happens when you get rid of an immoral institution is unguessable.
00:38:36.000 We don't know.
00:38:37.000 It used to be, because you'd say, well, look, 80% of people are involved in farming.
00:38:41.000 So if you're going to get rid of slaves, first of all, nobody's going to pick the crops because it's unpleasant work or whatever.
00:38:46.000 And 80% of people will, you know, 40% of them will be out of a job.
00:38:50.000 But now, like, 2% of people are involved in farming because we got rid of slavery and it became much more efficient to invest in machinery rather than maintain the value of slaves by relying on manual labor.
00:38:59.000 So what I'm saying Is we focus on the principles.
00:39:01.000 The non-initiation of force is, I think, a universal principle.
00:39:04.000 What happens on the other side of that is absolutely unguessable.
00:39:08.000 It's like saying what a phone's going to be like in 200 years.
00:39:10.000 Like, nobody knows.
00:39:11.000 Right.
00:39:12.000 So, you're saying that the most important thing is to get rid of what is essentially a corrupt and evil institution, get rid of that, and then figure it out?
00:39:22.000 I mean, you didn't.
00:39:23.000 No, you didn't.
00:39:24.000 Nobody ended slavery because things would be better afterwards. 0.88
00:39:28.000 We ended slavery because it was an immoral institution.
00:39:30.000 Right.
00:39:30.000 And the state, which relies on the initiation of force, is fundamentally immoral.
00:39:34.000 But isn't there a difference between ending slavery, which is essentially a crime against humanity, and ending government?
00:39:41.000 Because government is essentially how we keep order in our country.
00:39:45.000 Is it really?
00:39:46.000 Do you feel like you're bathing in an excess of order these days?
00:39:49.000 I don't feel like it's perfect, but it's more order than chaos.
00:39:55.000 So I don't think that it's ideal.
00:39:58.000 No, absolutely not.
00:39:59.000 But is it some form of an order?
00:40:02.000 Clearly.
00:40:03.000 It's flawed.
00:40:04.000 Clearly.
00:40:05.000 I don't like the tax scenario.
00:40:08.000 I mean, the tax situation is grotesque.
00:40:11.000 I mean, the idea of being forced to pay money for crimes against humanity in other countries, which is essentially what when you see thousands of people that are innocents that got killed by drones, a million innocents killed in Iraq.
00:40:26.000 If that's not a crime against humanity, what is a crime against humanity?
00:40:29.000 If millions of people dying isn't a crime against humanity, what's a crime against humanity?
00:40:34.000 I don't, well, clearly slavery was a crime against humanity.
00:40:39.000 Taking people, locking them up, making them work against their will, selling them as objects, as property.
00:40:47.000 Abolishing that is not the same as abolishing any form of government.
00:40:53.000 It was a foundation for all of human society all the way throughout history, and it was central.
00:40:58.000 It was central to how the economy worked.
00:41:00.000 Like, why was there no Industrial Revolution in the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations?
00:41:04.000 They'd even discovered the steam engine.
00:41:05.000 They knew all about this stuff.
00:41:06.000 Why?
00:41:07.000 Why was there no Industrial Revolution, which was really the basis of all the wealth we have now?
00:41:11.000 Because they had slaves.
00:41:13.000 And so when you buy a bunch of slaves, you don't want to invest in labor-saving machinery.
00:41:18.000 You have to get rid of slavery in order for machinery to do the work of slaves or of human beings, because then it becomes cost-efficient and cost-effective.
00:41:26.000 So it's central to how societies self-organize.
00:41:29.000 Slavery was as central, I would argue, to historical societies as government is.
00:41:33.000 It's how everything was done.
00:41:34.000 You know, there's an old story about Rome where one guy, one patrician was saying, I don't know, I do some bizarre upper-class Roman accent.
00:41:43.000 I don't know what that would be like.
00:41:44.000 I don't even know what the sounds.
00:41:45.000 So is English.
00:41:46.000 Let's just pretend it's some British guy. 0.76
00:41:48.000 We're saying, oh my God, I was walking down the street and I said hello to a slave. 0.98
00:41:52.000 I don't even know which ones are slaves and which ones aren't slaves.
00:41:54.000 We should make them all weigh yellow tags on their shoulders so none of us end up talking to slaves. 0.71
00:42:00.000 And the other guy said, are you crazy?
00:42:01.000 We can't put yellow tags on the slaves, otherwise they'll see how many there are and how few we are.
00:42:08.000 So like 70, 80% of the population in some cultures were slaves.
00:42:08.000 Right?
00:42:13.000 And so it was as central to the ancient world and to a lot of the modern societies up until sort of the 17th, 18th century as government is to now.
00:42:21.000 And it's as incomprehensible for them to think post-slavery as it is for us to think post-state.
00:42:27.000 But the moral principles, I think, have to win out rather than consequentialism, like, because we can't possibly guess what will happen in terms of spontaneous self-organization when you get rid of the coercion of the state.
00:42:38.000 The problem with your analogy, though, is that during the same time that the South had slavery, the North had abolished slavery, and the North was prospering.
00:42:46.000 So they were coexisting.
00:42:48.000 So there was not, not only was there a clear example of a profitable, forward-moving society without slavery, it was connected on the same continental mass.
00:43:00.000 I mean, it was a part of North America.
00:43:03.000 It was the country.
00:43:04.000 It was even a part of the actual Union.
00:43:07.000 They were trying to secede, but they had, I mean, the North had no slavery, and they had excellent cities, and they had buildings, and they were building ships, and it was all done through paid labor.
00:43:21.000 Whereas at the same time, the South had slavery.
00:43:24.000 I saw something that I thought was really fascinating that you argued, and you argued that the South should have been allowed to secede, and if the North wanted the slaves to be freed, they should have purchased them from the South.
00:43:37.000 Well, that's how slavery ended everywhere else. 0.98
00:43:40.000 I mean, the British government and the British taxpayers paid for a lot of the slaves.
00:43:45.000 There's a record of some British priest, a bishop, I think, was paid like £12,000 for his slaves.
00:43:51.000 Basically, the way that slavery ended throughout most of the rest of the world was the government stopped catching slaves.
00:43:56.000 And when the government stopped catching slaves, they just...
00:44:01.000 You can't go around chasing slaves who are running all over the place.
00:44:04.000 doesn't work anymore.
00:44:07.000 You know what I mean?
00:44:08.000 Yeah, so if the government stops catching the slaves, then it's not cost-efficient to keep them.
00:44:12.000 You have to socialize that cost.
00:44:13.000 And of course, the government, in the South, the government forced white people to go on slave patrols all the time, or they'd throw them in jail, right? 0.66
00:44:21.000 They're looking for slaves.
00:44:21.000 Yeah, looking for slaves.
00:44:22.000 They hated that.
00:44:24.000 So did it take 600,000 people dying to end slavery?
00:44:29.000 Well, only in America was that a requirement.
00:44:32.000 Everywhere else, it was money and moral browbeating and all that kind of stuff and legislation.
00:44:39.000 It was only in America was that required.
00:44:43.000 Wouldn't it be required that they would agree to that, though?
00:44:46.000 I mean, what if they didn't want to give up their free labor?
00:44:49.000 I mean, the whole idea was you're saying that the reason why certain societies did not advance past a certain position was because they relied on slavery.
00:44:58.000 And if you come along and you say, hey, we're going to buy all the slaves from the South, what if they say no?
00:45:05.000 We want to keep our free labor. 0.66
00:45:06.000 It's more profitable for us to keep these slaves and make them work. 1.00
00:45:10.000 But you keep bidding up until it's more profitable to sell them.
00:45:13.000 Well, how do they, where does the United States get all this money?
00:45:16.000 Where does the North get the money to buy all those slaves? 0.57
00:45:18.000 Where does that money come from?
00:45:20.000 It does come from taxes.
00:45:20.000 It comes from not having 600,000 people dead, right?
00:45:23.000 But does it come from taxes?
00:45:25.000 Before the people are dead, there's no debt of death.
00:45:28.000 No, but what I mean is that they're not dead yet.
00:45:29.000 The war was hugely expensive, right?
00:45:31.000 I'm just saying, from a cost standpoint, it would have been much less expensive to buy the slaves than it would have been to wage that entire war.
00:45:37.000 That's a hindsight 2020 argument, though, isn't it?
00:45:39.000 Because no one knew how many people were going to die in the war.
00:45:41.000 No one knew how expensive it was going to be.
00:45:43.000 They just decided that they were going to go to war and they were going to win.
00:45:47.000 And that's how a lot of wars are fought.
00:45:49.000 That's how we got in Iraq, and that's how a million people are dead, and countless amounts of money have been spent.
00:45:55.000 I mean, who fucking knows how much money was spent in Iraq since 2001?
00:46:00.000 I mean, didn't they just fly over like giant crates full of $100 bills and basically just throw them into the wind?
00:46:06.000 I mean, they just, like, huge amounts of cash itself just went there.
00:46:10.000 But that's the big lesson of history, is that once you let slip the dogs of war, you don't know who they're going to take down.
00:46:14.000 You don't know how long it's going to last.
00:46:15.000 You don't know what the blowback's going to be.
00:46:17.000 That's one of the big lessons is that there's very few examples of contained wars and very few examples of wars that match the expectations of people going in.
00:46:25.000 So with hindsight being 2020 and 600,000 people dying, what were the actual numbers of slaves that were eventually freed?
00:46:32.000 Do we know how many people are freed from the freedom?
00:46:34.000 Yeah, I've done a whole video on the history of slavery.
00:46:37.000 I can't remember, honestly.
00:46:38.000 I feel sometimes like a pipe through which knowledge passes, leaving almost no residue.
00:46:43.000 Like I do these presentations.
00:46:45.000 I'm sure my.
00:46:46.000 Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:46:47.000 You've had hundreds and hundreds of great conversations, but somebody said, oh, what did the podcast 122?
00:46:52.000 Yeah, my memory sucks.
00:46:53.000 I mean, it's pretty good, but it sucks compared to what I would like it to be.
00:46:57.000 Oh, I'd love to be this giant museum of everything that happened.
00:47:02.000 So the arguments, I think, are pretty strong that it would have been much cheaper to simply buy them.
00:47:07.000 The other option, of course, is that you let them secede and you let them have their slaves, and then the North gets more and more prosperous, and the South generally stays or becomes less and less prosperous relative to it.
00:47:18.000 You can't allow that on your watch.
00:47:19.000 How can you allow people to be enslaved?
00:47:22.000 I mean, if there's anything that as a person with morals and ethics, a person that wants the human race to advance and evolve, if there's anything that you would want to stop, it would be slavery.
00:47:34.000 That's one of the first things.
00:47:36.000 First, you know, abuse of children, child slavery.
00:47:40.000 I mean, in that order, you know, slavery.
00:47:43.000 It's like number one.
00:47:44.000 It would be one of the murder and slavery. 0.53
00:47:46.000 It would be like right next to each other.
00:47:48.000 Those are the things you would want to stop.
00:47:49.000 But you can't fight slavery with conscription.
00:47:54.000 Conscription, meaning what?
00:47:55.000 Meaning that you're forcing people to come and fight your war, because that's even worse than slavery.
00:48:00.000 Okay, so did they draft people during the Civil War?
00:48:04.000 Is that a draft situation?
00:48:05.000 So they force people to fight against the South?
00:48:08.000 Look, it wasn't a good plan.
00:48:11.000 It didn't work out well.
00:48:13.000 The only good part of it was that the slaves were freed and slavery is illegal.
00:48:18.000 Yeah, and I mean, I would like, I think there's a way, like I never advocate violence with regards to the state.
00:48:25.000 It's something we outgrow.
00:48:26.000 It's something we reason about.
00:48:27.000 It's something we discuss.
00:48:28.000 It's something we look for alternatives for.
00:48:29.000 And you can see a lot of these things showing up even in Detroit.
00:48:32.000 There's private police forces now because the police have basically said, you know, if you call and you get an answering machine, you're lucky, right?
00:48:38.000 I mean, the police have basically abandoned sections of Detroit.
00:48:41.000 There are wild dogs going through there.
00:48:43.000 People have set up their own bus systems where you can have a beer and there's Wi-Fi on them.
00:48:46.000 I mean, there's lots of things that rush in to take the place of decaying or diminishing state systems.
00:48:53.000 And it's just something we outgrow over time through a conversation.
00:48:57.000 And it is a multi-generational change.
00:48:59.000 It's not going to happen anytime soon.
00:49:01.000 But I do think that we're still a long way from done as far as a really great society goes.
00:49:06.000 And I look at the biggest institutions around, and I think that everything's open to question.
00:49:11.000 I think you do as well.
00:49:14.000 But I just, I can't sort of say, well, what's on the other side of a truly free society where people are not subject to the initiation of force known as the state?
00:49:22.000 I don't know.
00:49:23.000 I don't know.
00:49:23.000 I don't know either.
00:49:24.000 And I like having these conversations with you.
00:49:26.000 I like having these conversations in this sort of a form where we're bouncing these ideas back and forth, and we admit we don't know, and there are possibilities.
00:49:36.000 When you do your videos, however, you're doing these essentially these hour-long pieces, and you're very eloquent.
00:49:43.000 You're a very good speaker.
00:49:44.000 And it's very unusual how eloquent you are because you don't use ums or uhs.
00:49:49.000 You don't stammer a lot.
00:49:51.000 And no jump cuts, right?
00:49:53.000 You're not having any cuts.
00:49:54.000 You're obviously very impressed with yourself doing that.
00:49:56.000 I'm just mentioning.
00:49:57.000 I am happy with it.
00:49:58.000 They're good.
00:49:59.000 You're great at it.
00:49:59.000 I've worked at it for a while.
00:50:01.000 But in that aren't a lot of these ideas.
00:50:04.000 They're not, these aren't essentially black and white issues.
00:50:07.000 And when you state them as if they are black and white issues, that's what opens up all these portals of debate and dissent.
00:50:14.000 And there's just, there's quite a few places online where people are upset at you and quite a few things that you have said in these hour-long, eloquent pieces that people have vehemently opposed.
00:50:27.000 Yeah, and I'm annoyed that it's not more.
00:50:29.000 Really?
00:50:32.000 But don't you try to stop them?
00:50:33.000 Stop them.
00:50:34.000 Don't you pull videos down?
00:50:36.000 Don't you like pull videos for copyright infringement?
00:50:39.000 Tell people to not make videos.
00:50:40.000 Oh, no, no, no, no.
00:50:41.000 Oh, sorry, this just recently happened.
00:50:43.000 So, yeah, this is a guy who worked at FDR.
00:50:46.000 There was a troll out there who.
00:50:48.000 FDR, Free Domain Radio, Free Domain Radio.
00:50:49.000 Sorry, Free Domain Radio.
00:50:52.000 Yeah, so there was a guy.
00:50:54.000 I wouldn't say Troll is going to poison the well, right?
00:50:56.000 There was a fellow out there, I think he's a man, a gentleman of trolley persuasion.
00:51:02.000 And he, I do these call-in shows, so people call and we talk about sort of philosophy and ideas and whatever, right?
00:51:08.000 And he had gotten some of those calls, and through means I don't pretend to understand, he had, you know, doxing where you start revealing people's personal information.
00:51:18.000 He'd got pictures of their kids.
00:51:19.000 He'd found out where they live.
00:51:21.000 He had just done stuff where he was.
00:51:24.000 So someone just called in and he got pictures of their kids?
00:51:27.000 What can I tell you?
00:51:28.000 Why did you do that?
00:51:30.000 Can I pretend to know why people do this?
00:51:32.000 No.
00:51:32.000 this person called in, but just to elaborate, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but were these people being threatening?
00:51:38.000 Were they criticizing you in some sort of an...
00:51:42.000 I think we were just having a conversation about something.
00:51:44.000 Why is he trying to get this information about their families?
00:51:48.000 Well, so let's say someone named Bob called in.
00:51:50.000 Okay.
00:51:51.000 And then someone took that slice of our conversation and worked like crazy to try and find everything out about Bob and then published videos with pictures of Bob.
00:52:00.000 And pretty personal.
00:52:03.000 So look, everybody uses my stuff and I don't care about it.
00:52:06.000 And you can do a search on YouTube for my stuff.
00:52:08.000 And everybody, and everybody who said, I'd really like to reuse your stuff, I'm like, hey, go for it, right?
00:52:13.000 But we had a number of listeners who called in and said, listen, this guy's doing some pretty creepy stuff with my personal info here.
00:52:19.000 I'm not comfortable with it.
00:52:20.000 So we used that mechanism to take that down.
00:52:22.000 It's got nothing to do with copyright or anything like that.
00:52:24.000 I just felt that listeners were being acted against in a negative way, significantly negative way.
00:52:29.000 So that's what we did.
00:52:30.000 But it's nothing to do with copyright or anything like that.
00:52:32.000 People use my stuff all the time.
00:52:33.000 That's incredibly bizarre.
00:52:35.000 So was this a scare tactic to threaten people that were criticizing you?
00:52:40.000 Was that?
00:52:41.000 No, no.
00:52:42.000 It's a scare tactic to try and get people to not call into my show.
00:52:45.000 Like, so we'll target people who try to call into your show, and then we will start trying to find out personal information about them and so on.
00:52:52.000 And it's only one or two people, and it's only happened once, but that's why we did that.
00:52:56.000 That's why Mike decided to do that thing on YouTube, which I fully agree with.
00:52:59.000 I think it's a terrible use of time, and it's a negative thing to do.
00:53:04.000 And so, no.
00:53:04.000 But people, I mean, if I was interested in taking down people who use my stuff, then why on earth would there be so many of my videos reposted all over YouTube?
00:53:13.000 Do you think that maybe part of the problem with your perception, the public perception of you, is that you don't engage in these kind of conversations where you're allowed to elaborate and you're questioned on things and people get to see a more nuanced perspective?
00:53:28.000 What do you mean?
00:53:28.000 Instead of this hour-long echo chamber where you do these videos, it's your thoughts.
00:53:34.000 Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
00:53:35.000 Thank you.
00:53:36.000 Good night.
00:53:37.000 You know, it's like there's a bit that I've done about on stage where it's amazing that you can get someone to sit down and listen to you talk for an hour.
00:53:49.000 Because most of the times when people are talking, they're having a conversation.
00:53:54.000 It's a very unnatural form to have a long rant or a lecture.
00:53:59.000 It's a fairly recent thing in human history, right?
00:54:02.000 And that most of the time when people are talking for an hour, you're like, fuck, I got some shit to say too.
00:54:07.000 Isn't that what's kind of going on with a lot of the criticism against you?
00:54:10.000 Well, no, but see, I do six to seven hours of call-in shows a week, right?
00:54:15.000 So I am not like a, it's not like a one-way street in what it is that I do.
00:54:20.000 Right.
00:54:20.000 And we've had a standing policy for, I think, three years that if you have a criticism of me, you go to the front of the line.
00:54:28.000 I mean, we're booking people into the winter now who want to talk on this show on Free Domain Radio.
00:54:34.000 People are booked up until November.
00:54:36.000 But if you have a criticism of me, you get to the front.
00:54:39.000 You bump everyone.
00:54:40.000 You get to the front of the line.
00:54:41.000 So as far as people who have issues with me or disagree with things that I say or have better reason and evidence, fantastic.
00:54:47.000 I mean, I've done entire shows where I've read out somebody's criticisms of me and things that I got wrong and all that.
00:54:53.000 I am very open to correction.
00:54:55.000 Lord knows.
00:54:55.000 I mean, I'm one human being with some researchers and all that.
00:54:58.000 So yeah, mistakes are made and I've admitted to mistakes that I've made in researching and so on.
00:55:03.000 But if people want to tell me that I'm doing something wrong or want to debate with me, they get to the very front of the line every time, but they just never really show up.
00:55:11.000 But it's not necessarily things that you're getting wrong.
00:55:15.000 It's people disagreeing with positions that you have that it's you can't say it's right or wrong.
00:55:22.000 But these are very strong positions that you have.
00:55:24.000 For one, there's a video of you where you're talking about being an you consider yourself an anarcho-capitalist.
00:55:30.000 Is that the best way to describe it?
00:55:33.000 And you were telling people that if they weren't, if their friends were not also anarcho-capitalists, that they should abandon those friends.
00:55:42.000 They should cut those friends out of their lives.
00:55:44.000 I don't think I've ever said.
00:55:46.000 There's one time in sort of an eight-year show history where I said to someone, I think you need to not have these people in your life, and that's because he was suicidal.
00:55:54.000 But there is a principle that is, I think, really important, right?
00:56:00.000 And it is part of a long-term conversation that you have with people.
00:56:03.000 So let's say that I like to smoke marijuana.
00:56:08.000 Let's just go out on a limb here.
00:56:09.000 Say I like to smoke marijuana.
00:56:11.000 Now, people who support the war on drugs literally do support me being thrown in jail for the peaceful activity of smoking marijuana.
00:56:20.000 Now, that's a very real thing.
00:56:22.000 People who support the war on drugs support me being thrown in jail.
00:56:26.000 And that is a pretty aggressive thing to have around you.
00:56:29.000 Now, this doesn't mean, oh, you disagree with me.
00:56:31.000 I'm never going to talk to you again.
00:56:33.000 I talk all the time to people who disagree with me.
00:56:35.000 But I will say that in my very personal relationships, in sort of my close friends and family and so on, I really can't, myself, I can't get past this idea that if I have people in my life who say, Steph, if you disagree with me about the welfare state, I think the welfare state is a complete disaster and incredibly destructive to the poor, then you must pay the taxes for the welfare state, or I support you being thrown in jail.
00:57:00.000 Or if people are pro of the war in Iraq, or say, I mean, I'm Canadian, but let's say I was in America, and if people say to me, Steph, I think you should be thrown in jail for not supporting the war in Iraq.
00:57:12.000 Well, that would be a pretty aggressive action for somebody to sort of eyeball you and say, yes, people should come and throw you in jail where god-awful things are going to happen to you.
00:57:20.000 That to me is a very aggressive and very real thing that happens.
00:57:23.000 And if you are committed to a belief system, then in the long run, again, this is not a short-term scenario, and I've done speeches, full speeches, there's one in Libertopia 2010 where I sort of go into this in more detail.
00:57:34.000 But if you are committed to something, like let's say you're against racism, which is of course a wonderful thing to be against, at some point, if you've got friends in the KKK, you got to make a choice.
00:57:43.000 You have to make a choice.
00:57:45.000 If you say, well, I really want the friends in the KKK, then fine, then you're just not that much of an anti-racist.
00:57:51.000 I get it, right?
00:57:52.000 But if you say, well, I want to be a committed anti-racist and I want to maintain my friendships in the KKK, that's kind of a problem.
00:57:59.000 And so I say, look, if you want to hang around with a bunch of people who want you thrown in jail for following your conscience, do it.
00:58:05.000 That's completely fine.
00:58:06.000 But don't say that you're committed to the belief system, then, right?
00:58:09.000 If you are committed to the belief system, this is going to be a collision at some point.
00:58:12.000 I mean, that's not something I'm making up.
00:58:14.000 That seems to me to be pretty true, but that's sort of where people, I think, get upset.
00:58:17.000 I don't think that's very controversial.
00:58:18.000 I think what you're saying is very reasonable and makes a lot of sense.
00:58:21.000 But the video that I saw was you talking about people that support the state saying that if you support the state, you support people that want you dead.
00:58:31.000 These are your exact words.
00:58:32.000 That's what laws are.
00:58:33.000 State wants you dead.
00:58:34.000 Yeah.
00:58:34.000 That's what laws are, though.
00:58:35.000 If you disobey laws and you receive a police officer, then you're dead.
00:58:39.000 But sort of.
00:58:40.000 I mean, which laws are you talking about?
00:58:42.000 I mean, the state encompasses a broad range of laws that range from traffic lights to, you know, I mean, there's a lot going on there.
00:58:51.000 Supporting the state.
00:58:52.000 I mean, if you're not an anarcho-capitalist, you support the state, and you're saying that you should cut those people out of your life.
00:59:00.000 Anyone who supports the state.
00:59:01.000 I mean, that is an incredibly generalized position.
00:59:04.000 But you're boiling down, like I gave you a sort of very compressed speech.
00:59:07.000 You did there, right now.
00:59:09.000 But in the video that I watched, you were going on and on about cutting people out of your life that support the state.
00:59:18.000 And essentially, this idea of this philosophy that you have about how to live life being the one that these people should espouse and everything else is dangerous and you should cut these people out of your life.
00:59:30.000 Well, was that at the end of me making the argument?
00:59:33.000 I mean, if that's sort of, if somebody just takes sort of the tail end, right?
00:59:37.000 So I sort of gave you the argument here that if you're an anti-racist, at some point, you've got to stop hanging with the KKK people or give up on your anti-racism.
00:59:44.000 I mean, that's...
00:59:46.000 But calling it the state is such a crazy term.
00:59:50.000 It's such a broad term, saying that anyone who supports the state, you need to cut out of your life.
00:59:57.000 No, you don't feel that way.
00:59:59.000 So.
01:00:00.000 Should I play the video so you can listen to what it is that you're doing?
01:00:03.000 I think that would be because I'm sort of trying to get 3,000 words or whatever.
01:00:09.000 But yeah, okay, let's see.
01:00:12.000 I emailed it to you, right, Jamie?
01:00:15.000 Because it's a fascinating clip, and I think you elaborating on it enlightens or illuminates your positions on these things.
01:00:27.000 It's easy to say something in a rant and then have people go in all sorts of different directions with it.
01:00:33.000 So let's listen to what it says.
01:00:34.000 That's how you can be free by this time tomorrow.
01:00:37.000 You call up the people you know and you say, I've got a question to ask you.
01:00:41.000 I know it's going to be uncomfortable.
01:00:42.000 And you know something about my beliefs.
01:00:44.000 And I don't mean to put you in the...
01:00:46.000 I'll put you on the spot, but you kind of got a gun against my temple, so I just wanted to talk about that.
01:00:52.000 I know we've talked a lot about all the abstract things in the universe, but I want to ask you a question directly, and it's better to talk to people face to face.
01:00:59.000 It's harder to point a gun at somebody face to face, even in an abstract manner.
01:01:06.000 And talk to them face to face.
01:01:06.000 Go sit down with them in a coffee shop and say.
01:01:10.000 So I just want to understand the basis of our relationship.
01:01:13.000 So you claim to have some affection for me, some love for me, some respect for me, or whatever.
01:01:16.000 You assume there's something positive in the relationship.
01:01:18.000 And you say to them, sitting across from them, you say, excuse me, you say, do you support the use of violence against me?
01:01:31.000 And they'll, of course, oh, no, of course not.
01:01:34.000 It's like, oh, okay, so then we're on the same ground.
01:01:36.000 So you don't support the use of violence just against me, or do you support the use of violence against everyone except me?
01:01:43.000 It's like, no, I don't support the use of violence against anyone.
01:01:45.000 It's like, well, then you must be an anarchist or an anarcho-capitalist or voluntarist or whatever the hell.
01:01:50.000 You must be a philosopher.
01:01:51.000 You must be basically decent.
01:01:55.000 And they say, well, no, I don't.
01:01:57.000 I still believe in the state.
01:01:59.000 I still believe in taxation.
01:02:00.000 I still believe in government.
01:02:01.000 I still believe in.
01:02:02.000 Run for it.
01:02:09.000 And they will do whatever they can to disconnect these two things, theory and practice.
01:02:15.000 So they can get all the emotional comforts of conformity with the theory, but none of the emotional discomforts of actually advocating somebody getting shot, which people are relatively uncomfortable with.
01:02:24.000 But don't let them have their cake and eat it, too.
01:02:26.000 That's not because you're mean, it's just reality.
01:02:28.000 If you support me getting shot, at least have the courage, the balls, to look me in the eye and say, Steph, I support you getting shot.
01:02:37.000 And then I can get you the fuck out of my life. 1.00
01:02:42.000 Because how can I have even a shred of self-esteem?
01:02:46.000 A shred of pride in my own existence if I'm willing to hang out with people who want me shot?
01:02:56.000 I mean, that's sick.
01:02:59.000 That is self-abasement.
01:03:02.000 Self-groveling.
01:03:04.000 Self-denigration of the most revolting kind.
01:03:13.000 Well, I know that you want me shot, but hey, could I maybe get a little more meatloaf?
01:03:23.000 And if we're not willing to do that, like if we're not willing to put our personal relationships to the test, if we're not willing to do that, if we're not willing to do that, that's fine.
01:03:31.000 Nobody has to do anything.
01:03:33.000 But don't imagine you have anything to do with libertarianism.
01:03:36.000 Don't imagine that you have anything to do with virtue.
01:03:38.000 Are you using these ideas to play the clever card, to play the cool card, to play the alternative card, to play the I'm smarter and know more than you, and I'm out of the matrix, and you're in the matrix, and they play all this nonsense.
01:03:52.000 Don't try and use philosophy.
01:03:54.000 Don't try and use philosophy.
01:03:55.000 Don't try and use ethics for your own personal comfort and to feel superior and avoid the anxiety of asking people that basic central question, which you yourself bring up.
01:04:04.000 You yourself bring this question up about taxation as violence.
01:04:09.000 As the initiation of the use of laws, you bring it up.
01:04:11.000 Other people don't bring this to the conversation.
01:04:12.000 You bring it to the conversation.
01:04:14.000 So do it.
01:04:16.000 Bring it to the conversation.
01:04:20.000 Okay, I think we got the gist of it there.
01:04:23.000 Yeah, I think I didn't tell anyone to leave anyone.
01:04:26.000 I said, if you are committed to the non-aggression principle, then and and.
01:04:35.000 So this isn't sort of like the first time you sit down and chat with someone.
01:04:39.000 It takes a long time to have these conversations.
01:04:42.000 It took me years to get anywhere useful in philosophy.
01:04:45.000 So, yeah, I mean, I'm always sort of curious about, you know, people say, oh, this is terrible stuff that you said.
01:04:50.000 Not that you were saying that, but oh, this really controversial stuff that you said.
01:04:53.000 And then they play it and they're like, did I say something really crazy?
01:04:57.000 And then I watch it.
01:04:58.000 I'm like, yeah, I still believe even more of that now than I did.
01:05:01.000 This is probably back in 2008.
01:05:03.000 Does the state want you dead?
01:05:05.000 This is my problem with it.
01:05:06.000 The state doesn't want you dead.
01:05:08.000 The state wants order over 350 million people.
01:05:12.000 They want to figure out how to keep schools in order, roads in order, law enforcement in order.
01:05:20.000 That's what they're trying to do.
01:05:22.000 They might be doing a really shitty job of it, but the idea that they want you dead, they don't want their population dead.
01:05:29.000 If everyone was dead, there'd be no money, there'd be no life, there'd be no civilization.
01:05:35.000 In my opinion, that's not an effective way to phrase that, and it's leading, misleading, in fact, because it's not the goal of the state is to kill you.
01:05:45.000 You keep saying the state wants you dead.
01:05:47.000 That's an unfair way of describing their position.
01:05:51.000 No, no, but I wasn't describing that the state wants you dead in that clip.
01:05:54.000 What I was describing was...
01:05:54.000 Okay.
01:06:07.000 I mean, at the base of every law is a gun.
01:06:13.000 I mean, that's what the state is.
01:06:15.000 That's how it's different from a restaurant or the Boy Scouts.
01:06:20.000 I mean, at the bottom of what the state does is a gun that is the initiation of force.
01:06:24.000 That is the upside-down pyramid that it rests on is a bullet.
01:06:28.000 And so when people say, I want the government to do this or the government should do that, what they're saying is that violence, the initiation of violence, is how we're going to solve this problem.
01:06:38.000 And that initiation of violence goes against specific individuals.
01:06:42.000 And so if you're for the war on drugs and I enjoy using drugs, then you want force to be used against me.
01:06:50.000 You want people to come and use force against me to prevent me doing my peaceful activity.
01:06:55.000 And that is, I mean, stripped of all the rhetoric and all of the flag waving and all of the matrix-y stuff that goes on that we're raised with, law is an opinion with a gun.
01:07:06.000 That's what government law fundamentally is.
01:07:09.000 And to resist the state is to risk death.
01:07:15.000 I mean, we've seen this over and over again.
01:07:18.000 Do you regret saying it the way you said it?
01:07:20.000 Do you think that it could be perhaps said in a way that more illuminates that position rather than this continuing use of this phrase, they want you dead.
01:07:30.000 They want you dead.
01:07:31.000 And then you separate from the people that support people that want you dead.
01:07:36.000 Because that's one of the things that people are worried about with you is that they think that you have this main principle that you bring up about cutting people out of your life.
01:07:47.000 Cutting family members out of your life.
01:07:50.000 Cutting people out of your life that disagree with your views on the state.
01:07:53.000 Cutting people out of your life that disagree.
01:07:55.000 And by doing that, you're separating these folks from their friends.
01:07:59.000 And that that is the foundation of cults.
01:08:03.000 That is a big part of cults, is that cults separate you from your friends that might disagree with the cult, separate you from your loved ones, separate you from your family that may have some sort of a control and bond over you, so that the cult can have more control over you.
01:08:19.000 Like, this is the...
01:08:23.000 Is that not me?
01:08:24.000 I'm saying that that is the argument.
01:08:26.000 If I thought you were running a cult, I wouldn't be having a conversation with you.
01:08:29.000 People, that is a main principle of cults, that they separate you from all the dissent, from their ideas.
01:08:37.000 Anybody that would disagree, anybody that would interfere with their control, anybody with...
01:08:52.000 Like, what would be the goal of that?
01:08:54.000 Just to try to enhance that person's life?
01:08:56.000 To try to say, like, look, my advice to you.
01:08:59.000 Because, Joe, it's a true statement.
01:09:01.000 It's not, there's no sort of effect or intent in that particular thing.
01:09:06.000 It is a true statement.
01:09:08.000 If people are concerned about being separated from families, they should be a hell of a lot more concerned about the war on drugs than anything some internet podcaster is saying.
01:09:19.000 You know, as well as I do, how many families are smashed up by the war on drugs.
01:09:24.000 So if somebody is for the war on drugs, then they are for people getting ripped out of their homes, separated from their children, thrown in prison.
01:09:32.000 That smashes up families.
01:09:34.000 If people are for family cohesion, which, you know, I'm married, I have a child and love it.
01:09:40.000 If they're for family cohesion, they should be against the military-industrial complex, which separates people from their families, sends them overseas, gets them traumatized, has them come back, dumps them back in with very little support into society as a whole.
01:09:55.000 If people are very much into family cohesion, then forcing parents to pay for government schools where parents and children are separated from each other for seven or eight hours a day, that is a significant issue.
01:10:08.000 So I'm sort of a little baffled sometimes when people say, when I say, look, if you're going to take a committed stand on a moral issue, at some point your personal relationships are going to have to become part of that equation.
01:10:21.000 Now, if you don't want to take a committed stand on a moral issue, that's perfectly fine.
01:10:24.000 And I said that right there in the video.
01:10:27.000 Then give up this philosophy if you want to keep your relationships.
01:10:31.000 That's perfectly fine.
01:10:33.000 But if you do want to take a moral stand on an issue, then at some point your personal relationships are going to be part of the equation.
01:10:40.000 Otherwise, you're kind of a hypocrite, right?
01:10:42.000 You're saying, well, this is a non-aggression principle that's really important to me.
01:10:45.000 But all the people who want me thrown in jail for following my conscience, well, that's okay.
01:10:50.000 But do they want you thrown in jail just by simply saying that they support, quote-unquote, the state?
01:10:57.000 Is that what they're saying?
01:10:58.000 Are they saying that they want you in jail?
01:10:59.000 They don't want you breaking laws, but do they want you in jail?
01:11:02.000 I mean, are they saying they really want you dead or are they saying that they don't think that it's the worst situation ever to have a government?
01:11:09.000 Well, no, but you see, again, in this clip that you played, I said, when you sit down with that person, you say, I've talked about this for years, right?
01:11:17.000 Right.
01:11:19.000 So, at some point, people do have to get down to the essence of what's being talked about when we talk about the state.
01:11:24.000 And what is being talked about fundamentally, in essence, is the initiation of force.
01:11:29.000 It is the only agency in society that is able to initiate the use of force and do that which is illegal for private citizens to do.
01:11:38.000 And that is a great and deep, and I argue, terrible power in the world.
01:11:44.000 It gets, like...
01:11:46.000 If I was...
01:11:52.000 I don't mean to pull the J-card, but let's just say Jewish, right? 0.78
01:11:59.000 But let's say that somebody was talking about Holocaust is not a big deal, or who cares, right? 0.93
01:12:10.000 And this is an extreme example, and obviously it's contentious.
01:12:15.000 But at some point, if somebody was a Holocaust denier, and I would at some point have to say, look, I mean, this is really not acceptable.
01:12:23.000 I mean, we can't, right?
01:12:24.000 Or I can say, well, I'm not, you know, for reality or truth or Judaism or anything like that anymore. 0.92
01:12:30.000 That is the reality of having a committed moral principle.
01:12:33.000 If you are in the 18th century and you are for the end of slavery and everyone around you is like, I think slavery is a necessary immoral institution.
01:12:41.000 And you had years of conversation with them about the moral reality and you've shown them the pictures.
01:12:46.000 In the 20th century alone, Joe, governments murdered a quarter of a billion human beings, not including war.
01:12:56.000 A quarter of a billion human beings, 250 million human beings were murdered by governments in the 20th century.
01:13:02.000 That is some serious shit that goes down.
01:13:04.000 That is like, I don't even know how many holocausts, right?
01:13:08.000 And so people who support the state, and I'm talking about after years of conversation, right?
01:13:13.000 Because it takes a long time to change these paradigms.
01:13:16.000 But at some point, if you are committed to a moral goal, then people who are happy or comfortable or positive or pro the initiation of force against you in pursuit of that moral goal, I think that I cannot have people in my life who are going to, after I have explained it and after they have agreed with the general principles, as I said in the clip that you just played, I can't have those people in my life.
01:13:42.000 I can't have people in my life who want me thrown in jail for following my conscience.
01:13:48.000 But when you say support the state, you don't want people in your life that support the state.
01:13:52.000 To what end do they dissent?
01:13:54.000 I mean, saying you don't agree with war is fairly commonplace, yet there's war everywhere.
01:13:59.000 Saying you don't agree with taxes, pretty much most Americans don't agree with the current tax structure, but what are the options?
01:14:06.000 I mean, by saying you don't agree with them, that's all you require?
01:14:10.000 Or do you require action?
01:14:11.000 Like by saying you don't support the state, nothing gets done.
01:14:15.000 There's nothing different.
01:14:16.000 If you don't pay your taxes, you will get thrown in jail.
01:14:19.000 You will get in trouble.
01:14:21.000 And what happens if you resist?
01:14:23.000 You get thrown in jail.
01:14:24.000 What happens if you resist the people who come to throw you in jail?
01:14:26.000 They'll probably shoot you. 0.61
01:14:27.000 That's what I'm talking about.
01:14:29.000 Even if you don't support that, like what do you do?
01:14:33.000 Oh, the doing part.
01:14:34.000 Well, that's the best part of the conversation.
01:14:37.000 Otherwise, you're just saying you don't support it, but you are supporting it.
01:14:41.000 You know, by saying, do you support the state?
01:14:44.000 If you send in your tax dollars, you support the state.
01:14:46.000 If you follow the laws, you do support the state.
01:14:49.000 I mean, you are essentially bidding.
01:14:52.000 But I think that's using the, you know, if a slave doesn't run away, he doesn't support slavery.
01:14:58.000 He just recognizes who has the whip.
01:15:00.000 But if you're saying that you're going to cut people out of your life that support the state, to what extent do you have to not support the state?
01:15:07.000 I mean, if you're paying taxes, you're supporting the state.
01:15:09.000 If you're following the laws, you're essentially supporting the state.
01:15:12.000 You're following laws that you don't agree with.
01:15:14.000 Like when someone says, I don't support the state, what the fuck does that even mean?
01:15:18.000 I mean, come on, Joe.
01:15:19.000 I mean, someone who's in a concentration camp is not supporting the regime, even if they're not fighting it.
01:15:24.000 So are we all in a concentration camp?
01:15:25.000 No, no, no, no.
01:15:27.000 I'm just paying the taxes.
01:15:28.000 I'm analogizing that obedience to force is not supportive of force, right?
01:15:32.000 I pay my taxes.
01:15:33.000 I obey all the laws.
01:15:34.000 Right, but then the dissent of that obedience, the disallowing of the state or the disapproving rather of the state.
01:15:43.000 Like what, to what extent do you require to maintain a friendship?
01:15:47.000 All I require for friendships with me, all I require is for somebody to say, I do not support the use of force against you for peaceful activities.
01:15:56.000 That's all I require.
01:15:57.000 They don't have to do anything.
01:15:58.000 They don't have to join a march.
01:16:00.000 They don't have to chain themselves to an IRS officer or anything like that.
01:16:03.000 All I require is for people to say, I do not want you shot for following your conscience.
01:16:09.000 I reject the use of force against you for peaceful activities.
01:16:12.000 That's the magic key to the kingdom of me.
01:16:12.000 That's it.
01:16:14.000 Well, that's all very, very reasonable.
01:16:17.000 And in saying that, but also saying that you also are following the laws, you're still sort of supporting the state, aren't you?
01:16:27.000 Yeah, again, we're back to this question of support.
01:16:29.000 I don't think that enforced compliance could be support.
01:16:33.000 Otherwise, you know, rape, there's no such thing as rape, because if the woman's not fighting back, right, obviously it's, you know, a terrible situation.
01:16:39.000 So no, I just, all I require is for people to say it is coercion, and I think it's wrong.
01:16:46.000 I mean, nobody has to do anything, because I think that once everybody gets that, then evil is a very tough thing to fight because most people, like once someone identifies something as evil, it's usually done.
01:16:46.000 That's all.
01:17:03.000 Like once immorality is clear to people, it's usually over and done with.
01:17:07.000 Like that's why nobody says, let's bring back slavery, because everybody recognizes what a social immorality it is. 0.69
01:17:12.000 So it has no power, which had huge power throughout most of history.
01:17:16.000 Slavery now has no power.
01:17:18.000 Or let's say, let's take away the rights of women. 1.00
01:17:21.000 Nobody suggests that, because it would be wrong.
01:17:23.000 But it was throughout a lot of history that was how a lot of societies functioned.
01:17:27.000 So once people see immorality for what it is, It loses all of its power and society fundamentally changes.
01:17:33.000 That's why all I want is for people to see what I call the gun in the room.
01:17:36.000 That when people are talking about the state, they are at the bottom talking about the use of violence, in the initiation of violence.
01:17:43.000 If people see that, then that is, I think, that and peaceful parenting is the very best way to bring about a peaceful change.
01:17:52.000 Revolutions suck. 0.72
01:17:54.000 I mean, I think maybe three times in human history, they ended up with something better.
01:17:58.000 Most times, it's just terrible.
01:18:00.000 And of course, most people who do follow the state follow the state just as I did and approve of and appraise the state because that's how they're raised.
01:18:07.000 And that's, you know, so it takes years of conversations to change people's minds.
01:18:11.000 But at some point, you know, again, committed to all people have to say is they reject the use of force against me.
01:18:17.000 And that's great.
01:18:20.000 Yeah, I think that the issue that people have with it is this stern stance of cutting folks out of your life.
01:18:28.000 I mean, that seems to come up over and over again in the criticisms of you, is this idea of cutting family members out of your life, cutting your parents out of your life, and that, you know, even people that have thought that they had happy relationships with their family, you don't believe they're happy relationships, and you don't believe that these people, you essentially have talked about childhood in a lot of folks as being like a prison Well, I mean, technically it kind of is.
01:18:55.000 My daughter can't go anywhere. 1.00
01:18:57.000 It's not wrong. 0.84
01:18:58.000 It's just that, you know, she's completely dependent on me and she has no rights. 1.00
01:19:02.000 She has no economic independence and so on.
01:19:04.000 So that's more a biological description of dependence rather than it's terrible like a government prison.
01:19:10.000 Yeah, I don't think I would ever describe it as a prison.
01:19:13.000 I think I would more describe it as someone developing and more of like, you know, a scenario where you're mentoring and raising them and protecting them and then slowly nurturing them to the point where they're independent.
01:19:26.000 Yeah, I mean, I consider that prison.
01:19:28.000 No, and I can't remember if and where and when I've said anything like that, but I mean, I obviously am a parent and I've been a stay-at-home parent for five and a half years now.
01:19:38.000 You've cut your parents out, your wife has cut her parents out, and you've recommended this to many other folks.
01:19:45.000 No, no, no, no, no, no.
01:19:46.000 You haven't?
01:19:47.000 No, I didn't recommend it in that.
01:19:48.000 I say there are consequences to holding certain beliefs, right?
01:19:52.000 And if you want to keep people in your life who are destructive towards you, that's absolutely your choice.
01:19:56.000 But then don't say you're against destruction.
01:19:58.000 That's all.
01:19:59.000 If you want to keep, and this is the consequences of beliefs.
01:20:03.000 I really, really want people to take philosophy seriously.
01:20:06.000 I don't want it to be like a dilettante science.
01:20:08.000 I don't want it to be a opposer habit.
01:20:10.000 I mean, when you hold moral beliefs, they're very serious, very, very important.
01:20:15.000 And that's how things change in the world is people who take their moral beliefs incredibly seriously and are willing to go to the wall for them.
01:20:22.000 Right?
01:20:22.000 And so if you hold moral beliefs, then they have to inform your relationships.
01:20:28.000 Otherwise, it's pretty hypocritical.
01:20:30.000 Now, if you want to hang on to your relationships, as I've said millions of times before, fantastic.
01:20:34.000 Then recognize that you don't really hold those beliefs.
01:20:36.000 That's fine.
01:20:38.000 No one can tell anyone what to do in that regard.
01:20:41.000 But if you hold the beliefs, they have consequences in your life.
01:20:44.000 Otherwise, they're just noise.
01:20:46.000 They're just talk.
01:20:47.000 So essentially what you're saying is that your idealistic view, your utopian view must be and somehow acted upon.
01:20:56.000 And that if you have this idea of what is correct, what is morally correct, what is ethically correct, what is the best way to live your life, if there are any impediments to that that you are enforcing or even nurturing, you need to remove them from your life.
01:21:10.000 Impediments to progress.
01:21:13.000 I think there's a certain amount of real momentum that we are raised with.
01:21:23.000 I think many of us, I can give you my own personal example.
01:21:27.000 We were raised by people who were raised by people who really didn't know much.
01:21:31.000 And a lot of how we developed and a lot of how we were taught around the home was by people that really didn't, they weren't aware of the consequences of their actions.
01:21:42.000 They were essentially acting on the momentum of how they were raised and also what is convenient.
01:21:48.000 They're working all day.
01:21:48.000 They're tired.
01:21:49.000 They want you to shut the fuck up. 1.00
01:21:51.000 And so they yell at you to shut the fuck up. 0.69
01:21:53.000 And is it that they're evil or is it that they didn't really know what the fuck they were doing?
01:21:58.000 And I think that taking a stand to do things differently is incredibly important.
01:22:04.000 And if you have grandparents or parents or whatever that are destructive to your children or they give your children, put bad thoughts in their heads or teach them that what you're saying is incorrect and that these ethics and morals that you're teaching them that you feel so strongly about are in fact against the Bible.
01:22:22.000 I could see cutting those types of folks out of your life.
01:22:26.000 I honestly can see that.
01:22:27.000 But I think people have a problem with you saying it because you're so charismatic, because you're so eloquent, because when I hear someone talk that talks better than me, I assume that person's smarter than me.
01:22:42.000 I want to listen to that person more than I want to listen to my own mind because most people's minds are filled with doubt and insecurity.
01:22:49.000 And it's one of the reasons why cults get formed in the first place.
01:22:53.000 If someone can talk clearly and confidently, and I say this with all knowledge that I've been accused of fucking starting my own cult, all right?
01:23:00.000 I'm not any sort of a leader whatsoever.
01:23:03.000 What I am is entirely a person who's curious and who asks questions, and I give advice based on what I have learned about myself.
01:23:11.000 And I try to be as open and honest about all my flaws and all the mistakes that I've made, totally in the interest of disclosure so that other people can learn from the mistakes that I've made without having to make them yourself.
01:23:23.000 But I think that when people hear that, this idea of cutting people off, defooing, as you call it, cutting people off, it makes them nervous.
01:23:32.000 Why?
01:23:32.000 Because that's principal directive of cults.
01:23:37.000 It's not.
01:23:37.000 It's not.
01:23:38.000 Otherwise, principle directive of cults.
01:23:40.000 It's not part of your life?
01:23:41.000 No, no.
01:23:42.000 Isn't it, though?
01:23:43.000 No, listen.
01:23:44.000 Do you think, let me ask you this, Joe.
01:23:45.000 Do you think that a woman who's being abused by her husband should stay or leave?
01:23:49.000 No, stay.
01:23:50.000 She should stay.
01:23:50.000 No, of course not.
01:23:52.000 No, she should leave.
01:23:53.000 Yes, of course, yes.
01:23:53.000 Right.
01:23:54.000 So why is it any different between adult children and their parents?
01:23:58.000 No, you're right.
01:23:59.000 If your parents abuse you, I absolutely 100% wholeheartedly agree.
01:24:02.000 If you have abusive asshole parents, you should cut them off.
01:24:05.000 And furthermore, I strongly suggest, and I've been to therapy myself and I think it's a wonderful discipline.
01:24:11.000 If you get a great therapist, I have consistently said: if you have problems with your parents, sit down with them and talk about them.
01:24:18.000 Screw the philosophy.
01:24:19.000 Screw this, you know, all this other stuff we've been talking about, the state and so on, right?
01:24:24.000 If you have issues with your parents, like if they beat you up or if they never paid any attention to you, sit down and talk with them and air your grievances.
01:24:34.000 Because you have to be honest in relationships if you're going to have a relationship.
01:24:37.000 I agree.
01:24:38.000 And have conversations with them and talk with them.
01:24:40.000 If the abuse escalates, if it gets worse, try and continue to have the conversation until you just can't take it anymore.
01:24:45.000 If you're considering family separation, talk to a therapist.
01:24:50.000 And don't do it without a therapist.
01:24:51.000 It's been my consistent mantra for eight years.
01:24:53.000 Go talk to a therapist and make sure a therapist reviews the whole situation with you, goes with you through the whole process.
01:25:00.000 Now, that's a heck of a lot more than women who are being abused by their husbands usually get in terms of advice, right?
01:25:05.000 But as far as I know it, the people who have left their families have done so under the care of a therapist, which, you know, I think is really essential and important because it is a challenging thing to do.
01:25:17.000 And as I said at the beginning of the show, Joe, I mean, it's all about principles.
01:25:22.000 It's all about the extension of principles.
01:25:24.000 Women who were abused by their husbands chose those relationships for bad reasons, obviously, and probably for own personal histories of abuses, children, and so on. 0.99
01:25:32.000 Women who chose their husbands are in those relationships voluntarily and can leave at any time and have massive support systems around in the world to leave.
01:25:41.000 Now, when you're a child, you really can't leave your parents.
01:25:44.000 I mean, that's why I think I've jokingly referred to it as like a prison because you can't leave.
01:25:48.000 You can't get out.
01:25:50.000 Now, if you were abused by your parents when you're a child, you couldn't leave.
01:25:56.000 You couldn't get out.
01:25:58.000 I mean, where are you going to go?
01:26:00.000 And so then if you become an adult and the behavior has not reformed and the parents are still negative or difficult or abusive, absolutely sit down and air your grievances with them.
01:26:09.000 If they continue to be abusive, you don't have to stay.
01:26:11.000 Well, how do you define abusive, though?
01:26:14.000 What is abusive?
01:26:15.000 I mean, there's a broad range of what many would consider abusive.
01:26:18.000 There are so minor little pitch here.
01:26:24.000 Fdrurl.com slash BIB is my presentation on the Bomb in the Brain, where I go through what's called the Adverse Childhood Experiences, which is a test developed by Dr. Vincent Folidi, who's also been on my show.
01:26:36.000 And I think it's a nine or 11-part questionnaire about things that you experienced as a child that are considered to be abusive.
01:26:44.000 So being beaten, not receiving proper medical care or food or shelter, and living with a family member who is incarcerated or mentally ill or addicted to various substances and so on.
01:26:56.000 So there is pretty objective questions out there.
01:27:00.000 You know, how comprehensive?
01:27:02.000 I didn't develop them.
01:27:02.000 I haven't obviously vetted them compared to what I don't, excuse me, I don't know.
01:27:07.000 But there are sort of standards out there by which people can sort of find out to some degree whether or not they have experienced abuse as a child.
01:27:15.000 But this practice of defooing, this is, I mean, it's pretty widely criticized, right?
01:27:20.000 I mean, your wife got in trouble for this, for advocating this on your show, right?
01:27:25.000 No.
01:27:26.000 She didn't?
01:27:27.000 No.
01:27:28.000 Didn't she get suspended? 1.00
01:27:31.000 So that's just lies.
01:27:33.000 It's online.
01:27:34.000 Yeah, none of it is true.
01:27:35.000 She was never suspended.
01:27:36.000 Her practice continued.
01:27:37.000 They had some questions about the podcast, and at the end of it, they said, listen, we thought that maybe you had been given advice without giving a full psychological question or workup.
01:27:48.000 The quote that I had written down was that she had been told her statements in support of defoing are not supported by current professional or consistent with… The final result was that defooing is perfectly consistent with best psychological practices.
01:28:10.000 So this was just in the complaint.
01:28:11.000 So people are taking this out of context.
01:28:13.000 Can you believe it?
01:28:14.000 Something on the internet is being taken.
01:28:16.000 Well, that's very illuminating then.
01:28:18.000 That makes people feel a lot better.
01:28:20.000 Because that is the one thing that people consistently have issue with a lot of the teachings of you and your efforts.
01:28:32.000 Well, let's look at it this way, right?
01:28:34.000 in the 60s, I'm sorry to interrupt, but in the 60s, there was I appreciate you bringing all this stuff up.
01:28:41.000 I generally don't address it because it's interesting stuff.
01:28:54.000 I had this woman on my show. 0.97
01:28:56.000 She's Aaron Pidsy.
01:28:59.000 She created the first women's shelter in England.
01:29:04.000 And women would come beaten up and broken down to her shelter. 1.00
01:29:10.000 And everybody was appalled.
01:29:13.000 Absolutely appalled.
01:29:14.000 Until death do us part was the mantra, right?
01:29:18.000 That you can't leave your husband no matter how abusive, no matter how terrible, no matter how drunken, no matter how whatever, right?
01:29:25.000 And she basically said, well, I don't think that's right.
01:29:28.000 I think that you should not stay in abusive relationships.
01:29:30.000 Now, if the only people you ever talked to were the husbands, the abusive husbands that these women had left, what would they say about this woman?
01:29:39.000 Yeah, no, I see your point.
01:29:41.000 It's not the children.
01:29:42.000 It's not the adult children who are complaining about this.
01:29:45.000 It's the parents.
01:29:49.000 What would you expect?
01:29:51.000 I mean, if you promote voluntarism in relationships and then people go to a therapist and, you know, like I was, I think, I don't know, 2000 and whatever it was, years and years ago, there was some write-up in the newspapers about some guy who left his family.
01:30:08.000 He was, a therapist was helping him through the whole process.
01:30:11.000 And the therapist was recommending it.
01:30:13.000 And the therapist was the one who was helping him through the process.
01:30:16.000 But somehow, it's the podcast in Canada that is the sole cause of all this stuff.
01:30:20.000 Well, I certainly think there's arguments for cutting people out of your life.
01:30:24.000 Whether it's a sister or a brother or a mother or a father, there are abusive people that you are unfortunately just given a relationship with.
01:30:34.000 You don't choose them, they are just a part of your life.
01:30:37.000 And I think it certainly can be argued that an engineered life where you choose the people in your life and you choose the positive influences that you have can be more rewarding, more satisfying, more beneficial than being committed to this blood is thicker than water bullshit where you have a bunch of people in your life that are fucking assholes.
01:30:56.000 I think that in illuminating it like this and speaking about it in this sort of a form where you get a chance to go back and forth with someone, people will get a better idea of your point of view and your perspective on it.
01:31:09.000 And it's really easy to look at what you've said and say, oh, this guy's fucking starting a cult.
01:31:15.000 This guy's telling people, cut everybody out.
01:31:19.000 If you support the state, cut them out of your life.
01:31:21.000 Cut everybody out.
01:31:23.000 If your mom yelled at you to do your homework and called you a loser, cut her out of your life.
01:31:28.000 Everybody, cut out.
01:31:29.000 Come to me, send me your money.
01:31:31.000 Get in my inner circle.
01:31:32.000 I need about 50 bucks a month.
01:31:34.000 Come to my house.
01:31:35.000 We're going to have powwows.
01:31:36.000 We're going to sit around the campfire and I'll wax eloquently while you all stare and amaze me.
01:31:42.000 I will give you access to the basement of fertile women. 1.00
01:31:45.000 And then everything will be theft.
01:31:47.000 They're in the basement.
01:31:48.000 Yeah.
01:31:48.000 No, I mean, look, it's a podcast.
01:31:50.000 I'm making arguments.
01:31:51.000 Every philosopher throughout history, and I'm not trying to put myself in such illustrious company, but every philosopher throughout history has been accused of corrupting the young.
01:31:59.000 I mean, if you're not accused of that, you're just not even in the remotely right now.
01:32:04.000 You're not trying hard enough.
01:32:05.000 Yeah, you're just not doing hard enough.
01:32:06.000 You're lazy.
01:32:07.000 You're a lazy philosopher.
01:32:09.000 And well, sorry, go ahead.
01:32:11.000 No, I'm sorry.
01:32:12.000 There is, without a doubt, there's problems with the society at large, and many of the problems are because it has not been engineered in a very ethical or moral way.
01:32:27.000 It's been engineered out of convenience, it's been engineered out of momentum, it's been engineered by the ignorance of the past.
01:32:33.000 It's just history.
01:32:34.000 It's inertia, right?
01:32:35.000 It's just what we've inherited.
01:32:36.000 Plus, we've got this brain that's like, you know, it's like the lizard bit, and then there's like a bit above the lizard, there's an amphibian, and then we've got this monkey, and now we're trying to operate on this like post-monkey beta expansion pack of the frontal cortex, which is all layered on crap, and it's, you know, it's kind of unwieldy.
01:32:53.000 We evolved from some pretty primitive life forms, and it's not like that stuff's all vanished, which is actually quite a good thing.
01:32:58.000 Well, all these discussions and these conversations and these heated debates, what they essentially do is they bring up very important points and they allow people to give opinions and bounce ideas back and forth.
01:33:11.000 And that's very important.
01:33:12.000 And that's one of the major things that society benefits from when it comes to philosophy.
01:33:20.000 Well, I certainly hope that is the case.
01:33:22.000 And I'm very much into consistency.
01:33:25.000 And I was raised that if you're in abusive relationships, you should leave them.
01:33:29.000 That's how I was raised.
01:33:30.000 I mean, because I saw that all the time, you know, the movie of the week, the woman in peril, the husband is a creep, and she just gets out.
01:33:37.000 Why do you think there's been this blowback against you then?
01:33:39.000 Why do you think people take these clips out of context, put them up and make it look like...
01:33:52.000 But people love to take someone's jokes, take the words in quotes and put them down in text form completely out of context.
01:34:01.000 And some of the things that people say look absolutely horrible because of that.
01:34:05.000 And that that's not exactly what they're doing with you, but they're doing they're trying to label you in a certain way and trying to label you as a destructive influence.
01:34:16.000 Why do you think that is well, I think I am a destructive influence to them, to their interests.
01:34:22.000 But is it the interest of who is the interest of?
01:34:24.000 The state, interest of the family?
01:34:27.000 A lot of these folks are not the state doesn't care about me at all.
01:34:29.000 You know what I'm saying?
01:34:30.000 A lot of these folks, they might if you keep getting bigger.
01:34:32.000 We'll see.
01:34:34.000 We'll see.
01:34:34.000 You'll be happy one day if the state cares about you.
01:34:36.000 You've made it.
01:34:37.000 Oh, yeah, that's right.
01:34:38.000 Hey, look, Laserus.
01:34:40.000 Yay, I've arrived.
01:34:41.000 I'm sweating.
01:34:41.000 I've arrived.
01:34:43.000 But why do you think that these folks who've left and start these blogs against you and all this nonsense?
01:34:49.000 I shouldn't even say nonsense.
01:34:50.000 All this criticism, what do you think that's about?
01:34:54.000 Well, I think that the promotion of voluntarism in any relationship harms the interests of those who are relying on things other than voluntarism.
01:35:03.000 God, that's a bad way of putting it.
01:35:05.000 Does that even make any sense?
01:35:06.000 A little bit.
01:35:07.000 Okay, so let's say that, I don't know, let's say that the UFC has issues in New York with a union.
01:35:15.000 You've probably never heard of anything like this, but let's say that the UFC has problems with a union, right?
01:35:24.000 I mean, don't you have to go to New Jersey to see a UFC?
01:35:27.000 Yeah, you can't go to New York.
01:35:29.000 So why is this union so negative towards the UFC?
01:35:33.000 Well, I'll give you the full details.
01:35:35.000 It's the culinary union.
01:35:36.000 The reason why the culinary union is against the UFC is the UFC is owned by Zufa.
01:35:41.000 Zufa, the parent company of the UFC, also owns station casinos.
01:35:46.000 Station casinos, there's 20-plus station casinos, and they are non-union.
01:35:51.000 So the culinary union does not control them.
01:35:53.000 They don't reap benefits and rewards and money from them.
01:35:58.000 It would be worth upwards of, according to many sources, more than $15 million a year.
01:36:03.000 So they spend exorbitant amounts of money to make the UFC look terrible, to highlight anything that any fighter says that's politically incorrect and harp upon it and pay off politicians to keep it out of New York State.
01:36:18.000 That's the last place where it's illegal.
01:36:20.000 But it's also just New York is a deeply rooted corrupt institution.
01:36:25.000 I mean, it's showing it.
01:36:27.000 I mean, some of the people that have commented on the UFC, they've done so with complete disregard to the truth, to the facts of the competition itself, to the laws and the regulations and the safety record of the UFC.
01:36:41.000 I mean, their distorted perceptions or the distorted depictions, rather, of the mixed martial arts have been just grossly inaccurate and willfully.
01:36:50.000 And they've done so because they were being paid to do that.
01:36:52.000 Right.
01:36:53.000 Yeah, so something the UFC is doing is to their perception negative to their interests, and therefore they become very hostile towards The UFC.
01:37:01.000 Now, this doesn't mean that everyone who's upset with me is in this category.
01:37:05.000 I'm sure there's many legitimate reasons to have a negative opinion of me, but I think that the people who are the most upset are the people who, their adult children, listen to my show, and I said, just as everyone has been telling women for 50 years, I said, you don't have to put up with abuse.
01:37:24.000 But you should sit down, talk to your parents, and you should get a therapist if you're going to think about separating.
01:37:28.000 So you think it's just people that are like the parents of these people that are separating that are pissed off at you because you're challenging the rule that they have over their children?
01:37:36.000 I know a lot of the people who have a...
01:37:42.000 In fact, one of them was even on my show.
01:37:44.000 And so it's not a huge mystery to me as to what their identity is.
01:37:49.000 Now, the other thing to remember is that I don't have a lot of shows about this.
01:37:53.000 I've done 3,000 shows, of which three or four have been me talking about this topic.
01:37:59.000 So this is not any kind of central focus of what it is.
01:38:02.000 It's just if people ask me where the principles apply, I have to say where I think the principles apply, and I have to provide my arguments.
01:38:10.000 So this is not a big topic for me.
01:38:12.000 I understand, of course, it's a big topic for other people.
01:38:15.000 And so if you have, if you are a parent and your child has had significant issues with you, that child has grown up, that child has listened to me, and they have sat down and like if I have any influence over someone, then what they should do, let's say, is do what I say, which is sit down, talk with your parents, try and work things out, remember that adult relationships are voluntary, and engage with a therapist if you're thinking of separating.
01:38:36.000 If people listen to me, then that's what they'll do.
01:38:39.000 Do you think it's just a matter of the...
01:38:44.000 Like if somebody just says, well, I listen to three podcasts and I walked right out of my family, then that's not me because they're not doing what I recommend then, right?
01:38:51.000 So if I have influence, by definition, then the onus shifts to the parents and the therapist, right?
01:38:57.000 Because that's what I'm saying.
01:38:58.000 Go talk to your parents and engage with the therapist if you're thinking of family separation.
01:39:01.000 It's what I did.
01:39:03.000 And so if I have influence, then it shifts to the parents because people are, quote, doing what I tell them to do and going to talk to their parents.
01:39:11.000 And then the onus shifts to the therapist because I say, go and don't do this.
01:39:15.000 Don't even think of doing any of this without a therapist.
01:39:16.000 I'd recommend that in divorce and stuff like that too.
01:39:18.000 I think it's beneficial in those situations.
01:39:21.000 So the people who have hate-ons, well, I mean, they, if they have- Is that like a hard-on with hate?
01:39:27.000 Yeah, a hate-on?
01:39:29.000 Is that your own term?
01:39:30.000 With a giant foreskin of horror. 0.89
01:39:32.000 Is that your own term?
01:39:33.000 A hate-on?
01:39:33.000 A hate-on?
01:39:34.000 I guess so, yeah.
01:39:35.000 I don't know if you heard it.
01:39:35.000 I don't know.
01:39:36.000 Jamie's never heard it.
01:39:38.000 If you've got a raging hate-on.
01:39:38.000 All right.
01:39:40.000 Wow.
01:39:41.000 How does one rage with a hate-on?
01:39:42.000 So, I don't know, but I assume it involves fly-high leather boots and lacks on the nipples and stuff like that.
01:39:49.000 But yeah, so if your kids came to you when they're adults and they say, listen, I had all these problems, and you didn't listen, and you got angry, and you escalate, and they went to a therapist, and the therapist said, wow, this is a really toxic relationship.
01:40:00.000 You should try and get out.
01:40:01.000 Well, is it easier?
01:40:03.000 They can't even find the therapist probably, right?
01:40:04.000 Who's the easiest person to target?
01:40:06.000 And by definition, if they're just pouring hate and vitriol on me, is it really that surprising as to why their kids might not want to be in their lives?
01:40:14.000 Like, if this is what they do in response to a challenge, is they just create hate sites and pour all this venom and scour around and manipulate and cut things out of context.
01:40:24.000 And like, then maybe this is something to do with why their kids aren't in their lives.
01:40:28.000 Well, I think as this thing went down with Adam Corolla, and then Adam was criticized by Anna, and Anna was criticized by you, I think part of the issue is when people communicate in essentially an echo chamber, there's one person talking for long periods of time, and you could take any one of those chunks and decide this is something you want to highlight, and out of the context of the entire conversation, you might be able to manipulate it and make it look in a way that it's entirely negative.
01:40:57.000 Your position, however, what you're saying now on this podcast, obviously I haven't listened to all your shows.
01:41:03.000 I've seen many of your things online, but I haven't listened to...
01:41:06.000 Quite honestly, I don't think I've ever listened to any of your positions on defooing with your family.
01:41:15.000 Everything I've gotten from is just communicating with you and then reading the criticisms of it.
01:41:18.000 But your position on this podcast, I think, is very difficult to argue.
01:41:23.000 I think it's very reasonable.
01:41:27.000 But then the problem is it has to go to everyone then.
01:41:29.000 I just, I can't slice and dice ethics.
01:41:31.000 I'm so sorry, Joe.
01:41:33.000 I've never really had a chance to talk about this kind of stuff, and I don't really address it, but I'm excited to be able to.
01:41:39.000 I'm glad we're talking about it because I think it's important sometimes to give people an opportunity.
01:41:44.000 Like, I've had people email me, like, why are you friends with Stefan Molyneux?
01:41:47.000 That guy's a dick. 0.82
01:41:48.000 And I'm like, like, Peter Joseph, fucking very upset at you.
01:41:51.000 Peter Joseph, the P. Joe. 0.82
01:41:55.000 I like that guy.
01:41:56.000 I think he's got some great ideas, but he was very upset with you as well.
01:42:01.000 But whatever.
01:42:01.000 That's not important.
01:42:03.000 I think that it's important to have these kind of conversations.
01:42:07.000 I think I need to have them, too, with people, too, where I go over my own ideas.
01:42:10.000 You know, when you have someone disagree with you, where you get a chance to look at your position from a different angle as well and look at the perceptions of your positions.
01:42:19.000 One of your positions that get criticized, or one of the other things that gets tossed at you, is the term misogynist.
01:42:24.000 And I'm sure that's upsetting to you as well, right?
01:42:28.000 You're not a misogynist, are you?
01:42:30.000 I don't even, if people could define to me what that, if it means general hatred of all women, then I made a really bad choice of who to get married to.
01:42:37.000 Isn't it interesting, though, that that's what a misogynist means?
01:42:40.000 It's like if you criticize anyone who's gay, you're a homophobe.
01:42:44.000 If you have issue with someone who's black who does something stupid like Al Sharpton, you're a racist.
01:42:49.000 You know, it's a cute way of dismembering your argument or dismembering your position right away.
01:42:56.000 But you said some stuff about women that I have even disagreed with.
01:43:02.000 And one of them, you did this thing recently where you're talking about how the way to get assholes out of society, it's women's responsibility because women are breeding with these assholes and they're making assholes. 0.91
01:43:15.000 It's not only women's responsibility, but it's a key part of the equation that I think is not discussed enough, which is the sexual choices of women. 1.00
01:43:22.000 That expression, though, or that sentence is really critical.
01:43:26.000 It's not only women's responsibility. 1.00
01:43:28.000 And what I saw, the thing that you went off on, you were talking, I think it was the Elliott Rogers thing.
01:43:33.000 Where you're talking about that fucking crazy kid up in Santa Barbara that killed everybody?
01:43:33.000 Is that what it was?
01:43:38.000 By the way, he killed more men than he did women. 0.99
01:43:40.000 It's one of the things that I found fascinating, that this whole yes all women, hashtag yes all women thing, came out after four men were murdered and two women.
01:43:48.000 That guy was a piece of shit, regardless of gender. 1.00
01:43:51.000 Gender had very little to do. 1.00
01:43:53.000 He was mad at the men that women found attractive.
01:43:56.000 This is not a, it's not an even game, this life.
01:44:00.000 You know, there's people that were born and they look like Beyonce.
01:44:03.000 And then there's people that are born that look like Bridget the Midget. 0.51
01:44:06.000 And, you know.
01:44:07.000 I don't even know who that is.
01:44:08.000 Beyonce or Bridget the Midget?
01:44:09.000 The second one, I don't know.
01:44:10.000 How dare you pretend you don't know who that is.
01:44:12.000 She's a porn star. 1.00
01:44:13.000 Oh, is she?
01:44:13.000 Yeah, she's a small person porn star.
01:44:16.000 All right.
01:44:17.000 My point being, you know, it's, we didn't, it's not like you earned being Beyonce's looks.
01:44:24.000 You know, no one earned that.
01:44:25.000 No one worked really hard.
01:44:27.000 She might have worked really hard to get that body, but she's a beautiful person.
01:44:30.000 She was born extremely physically attractive.
01:44:33.000 And the singing voice.
01:44:35.000 I mean, you know, I could practice forever.
01:44:35.000 Yes.
01:44:37.000 I don't could sound like that.
01:44:37.000 And this Elliot Rodger guy was a, you know, he was socially awkward and probably mentally, there was something wrong with him.
01:44:44.000 Asperger's, whatever the fuck it was.
01:44:46.000 I don't know what was wrong with him, but if you watch his videos where he's talking, there's clearly some sort of a weird social disconnect.
01:44:52.000 He had a really hard time connecting with people and couldn't get a woman to like him for various reasons.
01:45:00.000 Blame them for his hate and his feelings.
01:45:03.000 That's when people see, when they look around, they see all these people that are attractive.
01:45:07.000 They see all these people that are, that are attracted to each other.
01:45:11.000 And then they're left out of that.
01:45:12.000 They're frustrated.
01:45:14.000 They're angry.
01:45:15.000 It drives them fucking crazy.
01:45:16.000 And I think that's where this Elliot Rodgers guy fit in.
01:45:21.000 And when this yes, all women thing came about, on one hand, I agree with it. 0.61
01:45:28.000 it's gotta be way more difficult to be a woman, way more difficult to constantly worry about your own physical safety, worry about men wanting to sexually assault you, which is very rare for a man to fear.
01:45:38.000 I mean, maybe in prison, yeah, but in real life, it's very rare for men to worry about other men physically, sexually abusing them or wanting to get them somewhere, roofie them up and sexually abuse them.
01:45:51.000 But for women, it's a super common occurrence. 1.00
01:45:53.000 So women in bars are always worried about covering their drink. 1.00
01:45:57.000 I've talked to at least five women over the course of my life that believe or were definitely roofied or were definitely drugged by someone, you know, unknown drug.
01:46:08.000 They woke up in someone's hotel room.
01:46:10.000 It's disgusting and evil and creepy.
01:46:12.000 And it's something that men don't have to worry about, but women do. 0.99
01:46:16.000 But when a guy like that comes along, I think it's not a matter of, it's not a matter of, it's a matter of a mental illness is what it is.
01:46:29.000 I mean, that guy was a mentally ill person.
01:46:31.000 I don't know what causes a person like that to be mentally ill, but I don't think that women can prevent that by not breeding. 1.00
01:46:38.000 I don't think that women can prevent a guy like that from being born. 0.98
01:46:43.000 I mean, I don't think his parents were abusive.
01:46:45.000 I've never read anything that said that his parents did anything evil to him.
01:46:48.000 So how does an evil guy like that come about?
01:46:50.000 He's mentally ill.
01:46:53.000 Something happened during his childhood.
01:46:55.000 And I don't think anybody could have prevented that by being a woman, not allowing him to have sex with them or whatever you were talking about.
01:47:01.000 I think, especially in this particular example, that guy was sick.
01:47:06.000 There was something wrong with him.
01:47:07.000 There's sick people all the time.
01:47:08.000 You can go down the street and there's a guy who pushes his car to talk to himself.
01:47:12.000 And I don't think it's because no one fucked him.
01:47:14.000 I think that guy's got something wrong.
01:47:15.000 There's an issue there.
01:47:17.000 And I think that was what this Elliot Rodger guy, there's an issue with him.
01:47:20.000 That guy was a monster.
01:47:21.000 That guy was an asshole.
01:47:22.000 And it's no woman's fault.
01:47:24.000 Well, okay.
01:47:28.000 So let's pull back from Elliot Rodger because we don't know much about his childhood.
01:47:33.000 We know that he had some complaints about the way his stepmom treated him, but I went over that in the video.
01:47:38.000 So a study came out recently.
01:47:42.000 And again, I had the guy on my show to talk about it.
01:47:44.000 And what he did was he went to a sort of middle-class neighborhood and went to a daycare.
01:47:49.000 And he said to the women, listen, I really want to study aggression, yelling, whatever in families.
01:47:54.000 I need you to wear this recorder for, I don't know, a week or 10 days or whatever it was.
01:47:57.000 And so he had the women wear this recorder and then he got the footage back or the audio back. 0.80
01:48:06.000 And he found that the women were hitting the children a lot. 1.00
01:48:14.000 A lot.
01:48:16.000 Like 936 times a year.
01:48:18.000 An average of three times a day from 16 months to four years of age.
01:48:24.000 Where was this study?
01:48:26.000 Where was it taking place?
01:48:27.000 I can't remember where, but it was...
01:48:29.000 A city?
01:48:29.000 Yeah, I'll give you the link for...
01:48:30.000 Maybe Micah can dig it up.
01:48:32.000 I'll give you the link for the show.
01:48:33.000 936 times.
01:48:35.000 How many people were involved in the study?
01:48:37.000 I think 40 or so.
01:48:38.000 So it's not comprehensive, but this is a middle class neighborhood.
01:48:40.000 Comprehensive enough.
01:48:41.000 So this isn't even poor, right?
01:48:42.000 40 is a pretty good number.
01:48:43.000 And out of those 40 people, what percentage of them were hitting their kids?
01:48:46.000 I think all but two.
01:48:47.000 And the other two were verbally aggressive.
01:48:50.000 Whoa.
01:48:52.000 So the idea that women are not part of the cycle of violence to me seems... 0.93
01:48:57.000 And again, this doesn't explain Elliot Rodger.
01:49:00.000 Of course, but the reality is that women... 1.00
01:49:03.000 And men too.
01:49:04.000 Like again, and not all women, right? 0.92
01:49:06.000 My wife is an incredible mom. 0.99
01:49:09.000 But there is a lot of aggression coming from women towards children. 1.00
01:49:15.000 Now, it's funny because when people talk about...
01:49:17.000 When I talk about this kind of stuff, people will say, well, what about men?
01:49:19.000 It's like, but we know about men.
01:49:21.000 We need to look at the stuff that's not seen, right?
01:49:24.000 Because right now, it's like, you know, like it's just men are nasty and men need to change.
01:49:28.000 Yes, men need to change.
01:49:30.000 Absolutely.
01:49:31.000 Of course, men need to change. 0.95
01:49:32.000 But saying that women are not part of the cycle of violence is not correct with the data.
01:49:37.000 And I am committed against all calumny,
01:49:43.000 insults against all hates and trolls i am committed to doing everything i can to maximize peace in the world i know that sounds like crappy and deluded and all that but that is my commitment you know in life and if we can get women to stop hitting children the world will become a much more peaceful place if we can get men to stop hitting children absolutely but we the male aggression has already been focused on so much that there is this blind spot,
01:50:11.000 which is the degree to which women use aggression in the raising of children. 1.00
01:50:14.000 80% of British mothers spank their child before the child is one year old.
01:50:19.000 Wow.
01:50:20.000 I mean, it's mad how this kind of thing.
01:50:23.000 And those of us who have great wives and peaceful girlfriends and all that, there is a whole world out there of people who, and men and women.
01:50:31.000 But again, we've talked about the men a lot.
01:50:33.000 Focus on the women. 1.00
01:50:35.000 Well, just that is very different than what we're talking about.
01:50:38.000 You know, what we're talking about is horrific.
01:50:42.000 You know, what we're talking about is just that's anytime you're hitting a fucking baby, that's sick.
01:50:49.000 I mean, the fact that so many people do it is really hard to believe.
01:50:53.000 I don't have any access to any statistics, and I believe you.
01:50:57.000 I'm not sure if you're a good person.
01:50:58.000 Well, again, people can look.
01:50:59.000 I grilled the guy on my show, and so people can listen to it.
01:51:04.000 But Mike's going to put it out on Twitter.
01:51:06.000 My Twitter handle is Stefan Molyneux.
01:51:09.000 But yeah, people can look at the study, and this is that study.
01:51:13.000 I'll retweet that study because that's incredibly disturbing.
01:51:16.000 And when kids, the issue, of course, is that when kids are hit by their loved ones, they are way more likely to hit their loved ones.
01:51:23.000 They're way more likely to accept violence.
01:51:25.000 Some of the scariest kids ever are kids that were abused at home.
01:51:30.000 I remember growing up with this kid that was abused at home, and he was so quick to violence.
01:51:36.000 And it's super common.
01:51:38.000 We find it in the UFC as well.
01:51:40.000 Some of the best fighters were bullied when they were younger.
01:51:43.000 They were beaten up by their brothers.
01:51:44.000 Some of the scariest guys are guys who had older brothers who used to kick their asses because they get used to having that from their family and their loved ones, and they have a certain tolerance to violence and a certain tolerance to aggression that other folks don't have.
01:51:57.000 They have a peace with it.
01:51:59.000 So they're not as afraid of fighting.
01:52:01.000 They're not as afraid of competition as the other folks are.
01:52:04.000 And yeah, that's a terrible cycle to be a part of.
01:52:08.000 And those numbers are absolutely incredibly disturbing.
01:52:11.000 But that's not exactly what I had read.
01:52:13.000 What I had read where you were essentially talking about women's attraction to assholes and that this was the cause of their being more assholes.
01:52:21.000 And if women just stood up and said they're not going to be with assholes anymore, we wouldn't have any assholes in the world. 1.00
01:52:27.000 And I just don't think that.
01:52:28.000 Well, look, I mean, when it's stated as a complete and isolated absolute, I get that it sounds deranged, right?
01:52:35.000 And I've certainly held men's feet to the fire as far as aggression and violence goes as well.
01:52:40.000 And I've talked to dads not to hit their kids and all that.
01:52:43.000 So I'm not saying, well, no, I don't need to talk to you.
01:52:45.000 You're the dad.
01:52:46.000 Let me talk to the only person who is ever aggressive to children, which must be the woman. 1.00
01:52:50.000 But the reality is, I think, and I think this is somewhat debatable.
01:52:55.000 I think it's fairly well established that in general, men ask women out and women say yes or no.
01:53:00.000 That's generally how it works.
01:53:01.000 And there are exceptions and all that, right?
01:53:03.000 But in studies I've read, about 90% of dates are initiated by men.
01:53:08.000 And so women are doing the choosing. 1.00
01:53:11.000 And I'm saying to women, one of the ways that women can incredibly contribute to reducing the cycle of violence is to choose better men.
01:53:19.000 Because there's a part of women, and again, this is fairly well established, at least as well as these things can be established, there's a part of women that likes the alpha guy, right? 0.99
01:53:29.000 The guy who's kind of cold and efficient.
01:53:32.000 And I mean, I'm plowing my way through 50 Shades of Gray, God help me.
01:53:35.000 How dare you if you are going to know it?
01:53:37.000 I'm telling you.
01:53:39.000 I'm sorry.
01:53:40.000 She's not a midget porn star, but I guess this is all I got, right? 1.00
01:53:44.000 And I get that.
01:53:45.000 I mean, men are attracted to particular physical things which indicate fertility.
01:53:50.000 And women are attracted to particular male traits that indicate good provider.
01:53:55.000 And again, there's nothing wrong with any of that.
01:53:56.000 That's perfectly natural.
01:53:58.000 But the reality is that we do need to be wise in who we choose to raise our kids with and who we choose to have kids with.
01:54:06.000 And I berate men all the time for choosing looks over virtue.
01:54:10.000 I mean, on my show, I'm horrendous on men for choosing looks over virtue.
01:54:14.000 And we've all been there, we've all done it, and we all know what a mistake that is, right?
01:54:18.000 What is it that someone says, I don't care how good looking she is, there's some guy out there who's tired of screwing her, right? 1.00
01:54:23.000 And so I talk to men about don't just, you know, go for virtue.
01:54:27.000 You know, virtue is the big tits of philosophy, right?
01:54:29.000 I mean, that's what you want to go for when you're going to get married.
01:54:33.000 And for women, I say the same thing, go for virtue. 0.96
01:54:36.000 But I think men's tendency to choose on shallow standards is fairly well known.
01:54:41.000 And again, I'm just trying to sort of shine the light on that other side and say, look, if like you need to sort of cross your legs and grit your teeth and say, he may be sexy, but he's not a good guy.
01:54:50.000 I'm not going to have kids with him.
01:54:51.000 And I think that will help a lot.
01:54:53.000 I mean, I want to empower women to be like, not to be victims alone, right?
01:54:57.000 I mean, I'm trying to empower.
01:54:58.000 Once you give people, like if you say, look, women are part of the cycle of violence, then women aren't helpless and just need to sit on their knees and beg men not to be violent. 1.00
01:55:05.000 Women can actually talk amongst themselves and be empowered to do things to help reduce the prevalence of violence in society.
01:55:12.000 Choose better men.
01:55:13.000 Don't punish your kids.
01:55:14.000 Don't yell at them.
01:55:14.000 Don't hit at them.
01:55:15.000 Reason with them.
01:55:16.000 That gives women something to do rather than cross their fingers and hope that men get better.
01:55:22.000 You also did this thing on Robin Williams, and you do a lot of these the truth about people, and you do these one-hour-long pieces where you stare at the camera and explain various lizards.
01:55:41.000 Just before, I'm so sorry to interrupt.
01:55:43.000 Please.
01:55:44.000 We'll get right back to Robin.
01:55:47.000 So this is from the Dr. Phil website.
01:55:49.000 I had this bookmarked and how dare you bring up Dr. Phil.
01:55:52.000 No, but look, Dr. Phil has on his advisory board all of the top stars.
01:55:55.000 Dr. Philip Limbardo, who was past head of the APA and all that.
01:55:58.000 So he's got the top guys.
01:55:59.000 And this is what he says, if you were abused, right?
01:56:03.000 And I'll just read the last bit, right?
01:56:06.000 And we can tweet this as well.
01:56:10.000 Do what is best for you.
01:56:11.000 Consider the possibility that it may not be healthy to have any sort of relationship with your parent.
01:56:14.000 It's a difficult pill to swallow, and it should be used as the last option.
01:56:17.000 However, it may be the option that helps you the most.
01:56:20.000 Dr. Phil also said that if a man is masturbating to a video, that's just as much of a betrayal as if he had another woman in that room.
01:56:29.000 Actually, that's Jesus channeling.
01:56:31.000 Dr. Phil's.
01:56:32.000 No, but I mean, so that's not his psychological science, right?
01:56:35.000 Does Jesus know about videos?
01:56:37.000 Jesus was so ahead of his time.
01:56:39.000 Anyway, so I just wanted this question of sort of voluntary family stuff.
01:56:43.000 You know, people can get mad at Dr. Phil, but I'm basically just echoing what they're doing.
01:56:47.000 I think people should get mad at Dr. Phil just for his fucking mustache.
01:56:50.000 How about that?
01:56:51.000 All right, sorry, back to Bobby W. Yeah, back to Robin Williams.
01:56:57.000 These videos that you do, I think they're very interesting, but to do a biography on someone requires an extensive amount of preparation and massive amounts of research.
01:57:09.000 So when you do the truth and the word the truth is a very tricky thing because there's many truths, there's many versions.
01:57:16.000 Like I've had conversations with people.
01:57:18.000 They'll say, oh, you know, I heard that this person met this person and that person was an asshole.
01:57:22.000 And I'm like, well, actually, I was there and that's not what happened at all.
01:57:26.000 That person was annoying as fuck and the other person was trying to get away from them and that's why, you know, they looked like an asshole. 0.80
01:57:34.000 You did this, the truth thing about Robin Williams, and your conclusion was that Robin Williams died because of women's addiction to free stuff, and that he essentially killed himself because of the fact that he owed money, because the fact that he spent a lot of money in his alimony.
01:57:56.000 I think that's an irresponsible statement because I think, first of all, it may have been a factor.
01:58:03.000 It certainly was a factor in his unhappiness, but we're not even aware of what kind of behavior he had in those relationships.
01:58:11.000 It was probably also a factor in the breakup of the relationship, also a factor in the antagonism that he shared with his ex-wives, if and when, whether or not that did take place.
01:58:21.000 But also his alcoholism, his drug dependency, his medical state, the state of just the natural body and brain chemistry after years and years of abusing drugs and then going back into it, and then depression itself.
01:58:36.000 Then on top of that, Parkinson's disease.
01:58:39.000 Then on top of that, whatever medication that he was taking for Parkinson's disease, disease, which many have been proven to cause depression in people.
01:58:46.000 So to boil it all down to Robin Williams died because of women's addiction to free stuff, I think that's irresponsible.
01:58:56.000 Well, I mean, and again, I said at the beginning of the video that this is not all set in stone.
01:59:00.000 This is just my thoughts.
01:59:02.000 But I think there's a good case to be made.
01:59:03.000 I really do.
01:59:04.000 I mean, because the timing to me is like right after his show was canceled and he's paying $600,000 a year to his first wife from the 80s.
01:59:13.000 I mean, that's what the settlement...
01:59:19.000 How does prenup get thrown out?
01:59:21.000 How does that work?
01:59:22.000 Oh, if the judge thinks it's not reasonable.
01:59:24.000 I mean, people sort of, because people posted back to me and said, well, he should have got a prenup.
01:59:29.000 Right.
01:59:29.000 A prenup is not bulletproof.
01:59:31.000 I mean, how many things happened that aren't, you know, Congress is supposed to declare war.
01:59:34.000 How many wars has Congress declared?
01:59:36.000 Like three out of the hundred wars that America's been involved in?
01:59:39.000 It's just part of the law.
01:59:40.000 So a prenup, Steven Spielberg's wife, I think Amy Irving, they were married for four years.
01:59:45.000 They had a prenup.
01:59:48.000 And she ended up taking $100 million from him.
01:59:51.000 Yeah.
01:59:52.000 So prenup is not A prenup is not a magic bullet.
01:59:57.000 She hasn't worked since.
01:59:58.000 Wonder why.
01:59:59.000 Lost all her ambition.
02:00:00.000 I'm sure.
02:00:01.000 Denny probably isn't hiring.
02:00:03.000 She was an actress.
02:00:04.000 She was an accomplished actress.
02:00:04.000 How dare you?
02:00:06.000 Right.
02:00:07.000 And he said, look, he shelled out 20 to 30 million bucks in alimony.
02:00:12.000 But he also made 200 and something million over the course of his career.
02:00:15.000 He made an insane amount of money.
02:00:18.000 The fact that he's broke, even if he did have to pay out $30 million, it can't be totally attributed to the fact that his ex-wives took an incredible amount of money.
02:00:28.000 It has to be attributed also to poor management of his finances.
02:00:32.000 It has to be attributed to just the overall recklessness that he exhibited in his life.
02:00:37.000 He was a very impulsive guy, as many great comics are.
02:00:40.000 It's an attribute that many great comics share is this wild, impulsive behavior.
02:00:45.000 I've struggled with it myself.
02:00:46.000 Most of my friends have struggled with it or aren't struggling.
02:00:49.000 They just fucking embrace it.
02:00:51.000 It's a part of what makes someone a comic in the first place.
02:00:54.000 And that is as much of Robin's problem, his poor financial management as the divorce settlements.
02:01:02.000 Because if he had been prudent with his finances and had been really good at managing his career, he would still have a shit fuck ton of money even after giving away 30 million bucks.
02:01:16.000 But the 30 million bucks still means something.
02:01:18.000 Sucks.
02:01:18.000 It sucks.
02:01:19.000 Sucks a lot of it.
02:01:20.000 It sucks now because he was 60 years old.
02:01:23.000 Do you think that's just?
02:01:24.000 I don't know what just is.
02:01:26.000 I don't know if it's just that someone makes $300 million by making people laugh.
02:01:31.000 I mean, I think if you looked at it in terms of commerce, it clearly is because people paid to see his movies.
02:01:36.000 He was a draw.
02:01:38.000 Everybody wanted to go see Robin Williams.
02:01:39.000 He's a hilarious guy.
02:01:40.000 He's a lovable personality.
02:01:42.000 I think the real tragedy is not as much that he had to pay so much money.
02:01:47.000 It's that here's a guy who the world loved who died alone hanging himself because he was sad.
02:01:53.000 I mean, that's the real tragedy.
02:01:54.000 The factors that led to him taking his own life by cutting his wrists and hanging himself.
02:02:01.000 I mean, that's a fucking guy who wanted to be dead.
02:02:05.000 There's many, many, many, many, many, many factors in that.
02:02:08.000 Poor choices, a life of regret, accusations of plagiarism that haunted his professional stand-up comedy career.
02:02:15.000 All the various things that were wrong in the life of Robin Williams, the alcoholism, the cocaine abuse, and then, of course, his health failing.
02:02:23.000 There's so many different things that were wrong there.
02:02:26.000 The $30 million certainly hurt, but Robin Williams made an ungodly sum of money throughout his career.
02:02:34.000 He was a huge fucking star.
02:02:37.000 He was making shitloads of money.
02:02:40.000 He could have been fine if he had managed his resources better.
02:02:45.000 I don't think you can say that the $30 million that he gave his wives was the problem.
02:02:51.000 Well, it was a problem for sure.
02:02:54.000 And it probably wasn't, other than the real estate, right?
02:02:57.000 I mean, he had, I think, a $30 million ranch That he was trying to offload.
02:03:01.000 Yeah, he was trying to get rid of it, but he could have let them foreclose on that.
02:03:05.000 You know, I mean, he just didn't want, he didn't want the shame of losing the home.
02:03:09.000 And by the way, he still had money.
02:03:11.000 He wasn't destitute.
02:03:13.000 It's not like we're talking about Robin Williams is living in some fucking beesbag motel somewhere. 1.00
02:03:17.000 He said himself he took the TV gig for the money.
02:03:20.000 Sure did.
02:03:20.000 Yeah, because he wanted to keep his lifestyle the way it was.
02:03:24.000 And look, it's still a fucking TV gig.
02:03:27.000 It's not like someone told him to work in a coal mine.
02:03:29.000 No, no, no, I'm not.
02:03:29.000 It's on CBS.
02:03:31.000 I get sitcom.
02:03:31.000 I get that.
02:03:32.000 Yeah, no, I get that.
02:03:33.000 I mean, it's a great job.
02:03:35.000 And it failed.
02:03:36.000 And one of the reasons why it failed had nothing to do with his ex-wife.
02:03:40.000 People said that he looked like he was sad.
02:03:43.000 Like, people watched the sitcom and said that he looked tired.
02:03:45.000 He looked sad.
02:03:46.000 He didn't have the energetic persona that everybody...
02:03:48.000 He was...
02:03:52.000 And it was a downsizing professionally in a way that's embarrassing to many film actors.
02:03:57.000 When film actors go from film to television, it's a loss.
02:04:00.000 And it's so hilarious.
02:04:02.000 It's like, my God, you're on a fucking television show, but the hierarchy of stars is, no, if Jack Nicholson all of a sudden started doing a sitcom, everybody would be like, oh, Jack.
02:04:13.000 Got to come down.
02:04:14.000 Right.
02:04:14.000 But if I did a sitcom, everybody would be like, hey, congratulations on your sitcom.
02:04:18.000 You know what I mean?
02:04:18.000 It's not a consolation prize for you, but it would be for Jack Nicholson.
02:04:21.000 I'm a D-level celebrity.
02:04:22.000 So if I did a sitcom, it would be, you know, it would be a bump up.
02:04:26.000 I'd be a C. You know what I'm saying?
02:04:29.000 But with an A guy like Robin Williams does a sitcom, all of a sudden he's a B or whatever.
02:04:34.000 Right.
02:04:35.000 Now, just a hierarchy of things.
02:04:37.000 To be fair, I also talked a lot about the stuff that happened in his childhood, right?
02:04:41.000 That he himself had talked about that he felt that he had to be what I called the me plus.
02:04:47.000 You know, like in order to get people's attention, in order to get their positive response, I can't just be me.
02:04:52.000 I have to be me with a show.
02:04:54.000 I have to be me with money.
02:04:55.000 I have to be me with good looks.
02:04:56.000 I have whatever it's going to be, right?
02:04:59.000 And I think that stuff comes out of, I think that stuff came out of his childhood.
02:05:02.000 Now, you can't be definitive about that stuff.
02:05:05.000 I would love to have chatted with him, but sadly that never will happen.
02:05:08.000 But I think that stuff came out of a lot of his childhood issues.
02:05:12.000 And I think that's really tragic.
02:05:14.000 And I really wanted to, you know, there is no external solution to the problem of insecurity, to the problems of feeling unlovable, to the problems of feeling not enough.
02:05:23.000 People will try, I think until the end of time, it seems like, people will try to stuff the holes in their heart with whatever they can grab from talent or money or looks or fame or whatever it is.
02:05:33.000 But I really try to urge people, you have to look inside and deal with that stuff in a very proactive way.
02:05:39.000 Because the idea that you can just basically glue eyeballs of attention to yourself and become whole, I think is a very dangerous myth.
02:05:46.000 It is a very dangerous myth, but it's also what propels great comics to become great.
02:05:50.000 And that's where it's ironic that a guy like Robin Williams, his horrific childhood, wasn't horrific, just wasn't good.
02:05:57.000 But that childhood, I mean, he was wealthy.
02:06:00.000 He was just ignored.
02:06:01.000 But the lack that he had in his childhood was what led him to be this magnanimous, just energetic, explosive, like, look at me, look at me.
02:06:12.000 And he was this look at me guy because no one was looking at him.
02:06:16.000 You know, I know this from my own personal experience of becoming a stand-up comedian.
02:06:20.000 My parents were, they broke up when I was five years old.
02:06:23.000 My father was very physically abusive, violent, very terrifying.
02:06:27.000 And then, you know, my stepfather was very young when my parents got together.
02:06:31.000 And it was like, I was ignored a lot, you know, and that's what led me to become a fighter.
02:06:36.000 Part of it was being bullied.
02:06:37.000 I was small.
02:06:38.000 And the other part was what led me to become a comic was this lack of attention.
02:06:44.000 And I figured out a way to manage it.
02:06:48.000 And I figured out a way with, you know, constant objective analysis of myself, constantly pushing myself towards new goals, constant research in terms of like psychology, in terms of philosophy, in terms of meditation, in terms of psychedelic experiences, and all sorts of different things that I've done to try to manage my own particular insanity.
02:07:16.000 But my particular insanity was more manageable than someone who's a drug addict.
02:07:21.000 The people that are drug addicts with that particular insanity, the real problem is you're also creating this massive chemical imbalance in your main.
02:07:29.000 And I could be argued that I'm a drug addict.
02:07:31.000 Some people have said I'm a drug addict because I like pot.
02:07:33.000 But I disagree because I don't smoke it every day and I have quit for weeks on end and it doesn't bother me.
02:07:41.000 I like pot.
02:07:42.000 I think it's like saying I'm a coffee addict or I'm addicted to my steak.
02:07:46.000 Wait, you're not going to take my coffee, are you?
02:07:47.000 You're not going to take my coffee?
02:07:47.000 Nope.
02:07:48.000 I'm not addicted to steak, but I love it.
02:07:51.000 I love weed too.
02:07:52.000 I think it's a beautiful, calming, insightful, introspective drug.
02:07:57.000 I think it makes food taste better.
02:07:59.000 I think there's a lot of benefits to it as far as the way you deal with people.
02:08:03.000 It makes you more compassionate.
02:08:05.000 I believe it makes you more creative.
02:08:06.000 I think it's a tool that Mother Nature has given human beings.
02:08:09.000 But it's not physically addictive in terms of what it does to your neurochemistry and what it does to your body's actual need for it, where you have to go in a fucking rehab.
02:08:22.000 If you go into rehab for weed, you're either some sort of a weird case, like one of those people that's allergic to sweat or something like that.
02:08:30.000 Or, you know, there are people that are allergic to their wives who are allergic to their husband's sperm.
02:08:35.000 I've heard of this.
02:08:37.000 That's not just a line.
02:08:38.000 Yeah.
02:08:39.000 That's what I would say.
02:08:39.000 I would say it's a line.
02:08:40.000 But no, it is true.
02:08:42.000 There's medical proof that some women are actually allergic to their husband's sperm, allegedly. 0.99
02:08:48.000 What am I, a doctor?
02:08:49.000 Medical proof.
02:08:50.000 But my point is, Robin had a physical addiction to chemicals, without a doubt.
02:08:56.000 And one of the big ones was cocaine.
02:08:58.000 He did a fuckload of cocaine.
02:09:00.000 And I personally have had several friends that have had real problems with cocaine.
02:09:06.000 And it is a goddamn roller coaster ride.
02:09:09.000 And the downs are awful.
02:09:11.000 And when they go up, you know, they're riding this manic wave.
02:09:15.000 And when they crash, they are fucking, they are just miserable.
02:09:20.000 It's horrible to watch.
02:09:22.000 The best way to keep people from doing Coke is to put them around someone who's done Coke.
02:09:27.000 Because it is just seeing how fucked up they are when they're high and seeing how low they are when they're low.
02:09:33.000 And, you know, that was without a doubt a problem with Robin.
02:09:37.000 He filled up his hold not just with attention, but he did it with hardcore, damaging drugs.
02:09:43.000 And there's this Vancouver physician.
02:09:46.000 I can recommend your listeners to check out his book.
02:09:49.000 His name is Gabar Mate, M-A-T-E, and he's written a book called In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts.
02:09:55.000 And he specializes in treating people with significant drug addictions.
02:10:00.000 He's a doctor in Vancouver's drug area, drug district, and so on.
02:10:04.000 And he sort of noticed this pattern, that particularly the women who were heroin addicts had all been sexually abused as children.
02:10:11.000 And he noticed this relationship between childhood trauma and adult addiction.
02:10:16.000 And this book, I won't obviously do any kind of justice summarizing it here, but it goes into, and I've had him on the show too, but it goes into a significant amount of detail about the biochemistry of addiction, that generally, if people have gone through these very hard childhoods, and neglect is underrated as far as how harmful it can be for someone, which is why children act out in order to get hit.
02:10:39.000 They'd rather get hit than be neglected in many ways.
02:10:43.000 And his basic idea is that when you have a neglected or abused childhood, your brain is missing particular receptors for certain chemicals.
02:10:52.000 And then when you take drugs, you begin normal.
02:10:56.000 You feel normal because you finally feel what it's like, what everyone else feels who didn't have those kinds of childhoods.
02:11:02.000 And that's why the addiction is so strongly there.
02:11:05.000 You know, a person of regular happiness, like just make up a number, happiness 100, they take Coke, they go to 150, they go back down to 95, and then they settle around that.
02:11:13.000 But somebody who's got a happiness of 30, they go to 110, they feel like normal happiness and what everyone else feels for the first time.
02:11:19.000 And then when they crash back down, their life, which formerly was just normal, now feels unbearable.
02:11:25.000 And that's one of the reasons why there's this drive for addiction.
02:11:29.000 And I did a whole speech of this at a college in Canada recently, so I won't go into the details.
02:11:33.000 But I think there is a lot of ways in which you can see really difficult childhoods producing brains that are very susceptible to getting the reups from external substances that should be naturally occurring but didn't develop as a result of childhood trauma.
02:11:47.000 No question whatsoever.
02:11:48.000 And we're learning more, not just we, they are learning, the people that study that are learning more about that every day.
02:11:54.000 And it's a fairly new science.
02:11:55.000 Over the last X amount of decades, they've just sort of delve into these responses and then understanding genes and understanding how you could actually pass on depression and pass on these sorts of behavior patterns to your children.
02:12:11.000 And a guy like Robin Williams clearly had demons.
02:12:15.000 And there was many, many, many, many issues.
02:12:18.000 The divorce part was something.
02:12:20.000 It was definitely something.
02:12:22.000 But it bothered me listening to you talk about that because I've had friends that were depressed.
02:12:28.000 I know that it's going very clearly against the current of modern medical thinking and which recognizes depression as a disease to say that this guy was killed because of divorce.
02:12:44.000 You know, when he died, he still had millions of dollars.
02:12:46.000 He wasn't broken.
02:12:47.000 Well, you know, and I think in listening to you talk, I think I will retract what I said.
02:12:51.000 I think I went too far in saying that that was, if I said that that was the sole cause, that's wrong.
02:12:56.000 I can't definitively say, of course, that that was the sole cause.
02:12:56.000 Yeah.
02:12:59.000 So for those, for saying, if I said that, I'm sure I did.
02:13:02.000 You've listened to it more recently than I have, then yeah, I retract that.
02:13:05.000 That's going too far.
02:13:06.000 You think you just got worked up over this idea of alimony, this idea, which I agree with you that it's a very strange thing.
02:13:14.000 And the way you put it, I think, was a good way, that you said that if people get fired from a job, you know, you don't get fired and say, well, I still want money.
02:13:23.000 I want you to continue to pay me, even though I've been fired.
02:13:26.000 But if someone is married, I have a friend who is married, and I talked about this yesterday, but briefly.
02:13:35.000 His wife, not only did she divorce him, but she planned it out for several months and went to all the best divorce attorneys and consulted with them so that he couldn't consult with them because it would be a conflict of interest. 0.74
02:13:48.000 And they don't have any children, but they were married for a while and she will never get married again because if she did, she wouldn't receive these payments.
02:13:57.000 So she has her boyfriend living in his old house.
02:14:00.000 And when they send inspectors over there, the guy moves out.
02:14:03.000 He gets his shit out, like waits around the corner with a U-Haul.
02:14:05.000 She calls them.
02:14:06.000 The inspector's gone.
02:14:07.000 He turns around.
02:14:08.000 And, you know, my friend knows about it.
02:14:10.000 And it drives him fucking crazy because he worked 12 hours a day while she was at home doing jack shit.
02:14:16.000 She never had a kid, had a little dog, you know, the whole deal, you know, got her nails done every day. 1.00
02:14:20.000 And he's just a fucking workaholic maniac.
02:14:22.000 And she benefited from it greatly.
02:14:24.000 And to this day, his lifestyle is impaired because he has to send her money.
02:14:29.000 And he's not Robin Williams.
02:14:30.000 He's not making that kind of money.
02:14:32.000 He did very well for himself, but the guy earned every fucking penny with labor.
02:14:38.000 I mean, he's a hard worker, and he's got this fucking ex-wife that's an anchor tied to his neck.
02:14:44.000 And he can't get free of it no matter what he does.
02:14:47.000 There's something Norman Malay, an American writer, he said.
02:14:50.000 He said, you never know your wife till you meet her in court.
02:14:53.000 And I think that's pretty cynical for all wives. 0.92
02:14:57.000 But I think he's the guy who stabbed his wife and he said, as long as you're still using a knife, there's still some love there.
02:15:03.000 It's only a knife.
02:15:04.000 But no, I think the alimony thing, it's funny because it actually is pretty not that common throughout history.
02:15:10.000 It really came out of the Catholic Church.
02:15:11.000 Until death to us part, you can't, right?
02:15:14.000 The reason that the alimony thing basically got its root in Western common law was because the Catholic Church didn't allow divorce.
02:15:20.000 And so people would just kind of separate.
02:15:21.000 The way it used to work is you take a dowry for marrying a woman.
02:15:24.000 If you divorced it, you had to give the dowry back, but that was about it.
02:15:27.000 But then this idea of until death do us part kind of came out of the Catholic Church, and that's sort of where it came from.
02:15:32.000 And it is brutal.
02:15:34.000 Some people got upset and say, well, are you saying that being a wife is only a job?
02:15:37.000 Well, kind of.
02:15:37.000 And being a husband is kind of a job too, right?
02:15:39.000 I mean, there is a financial aspect to marriage that it's foolish to ignore.
02:15:44.000 And I think it is pretty terrible.
02:15:47.000 I think that's also something that breaks up a lot of families too, because more than half of people who are considering divorce, if they stick it out five years later, they say, I'm really glad I did.
02:15:57.000 You know, there's a lot of people who go through challenges, rough spots, tough spots, transitions.
02:16:02.000 You never know.
02:16:03.000 You get sick or you lose some money or you lose your job.
02:16:06.000 I mean, things can happen that are really tough.
02:16:08.000 People have affairs.
02:16:10.000 But the majority of people who stick out their marriages, and again, it's not like 99%, but certainly more than 50.
02:16:16.000 Majority of people who stick out their marriages, Joe, are very happy that they did.
02:16:19.000 I hate using those terms.
02:16:21.000 I hate saying the majority of when you're dealing with individual relationships because they vary so widely that I don't think that you can really narrow them down to statistics.
02:16:30.000 I think every individual interaction between two unique people is unique in and of itself.
02:16:36.000 And that person, I'm different with my wife than I've been with anybody I've ever dated.
02:16:40.000 And I think that that's how it is with most people.
02:16:43.000 Sometimes you find someone who's compatible and it works great for you, but there's other times where you're thinking about getting away from them where that's probably the best fucking decision you can ever make.
02:16:52.000 And I know people that say, why does divorce cost so much?
02:16:54.000 Because it's fucking worth it.
02:16:56.000 You know, there's a lot of people that think that too.
02:17:00.000 I agree with you, though, that there are some ridiculous alimony settlements that are just unreasonable and don't make any fucking sense whatsoever.
02:17:08.000 In Europe, there's, I mean, really no such thing.
02:17:11.000 And people can check out the movie Divorce Corps.
02:17:13.000 I found like I'm, I don't know, I don't get any money from this stuff, but I think it's a good movie, and they sort of compare what goes on in Europe.
02:17:19.000 So in Europe, the worst that can happen is you have to pay alimony during the period that the divorce is going through.
02:17:25.000 But once it's done, it's done.
02:17:26.000 Now, there can be child support and so on, but it's not much.
02:17:28.000 It's a weird thing, this idea that once a woman has separated from her husband, that she's no longer able to live her life as an independent.
02:17:36.000 That's so strange.
02:17:37.000 I don't understand how that ever came to be.
02:17:40.000 And this idea that you have to keep her in the same fashion and style.
02:17:45.000 In the styles to which she has become accustomed to that.
02:17:46.000 That's so crazy.
02:17:48.000 Like, if you're a woman and you are used to being a waitress and you're used to living in an apartment, there's nothing wrong with that. 0.52
02:17:55.000 And then all of a sudden you meet some guy who's some real estate mogul who's worth a billion dollars and he puts you up in his Beverly Hills mansion and you live with him for a year and you get married.
02:18:05.000 Should you discount the 30 years of your life that you lived as a waitress?
02:18:09.000 Should there be an average?
02:18:11.000 You know, like one of the things that we talked about the last time we were here was we were talking about poverty and we were talking about how people in poverty work a shockingly small amount.
02:18:23.000 And you were saying that people that live below the poverty line work an average of 16 hours a week.
02:18:28.000 And my argument.
02:18:29.000 That's two people.
02:18:30.000 Two people.
02:18:32.000 My argument with that is also, of course, that you're dealing with people that mostly are unemployed.
02:18:37.000 So if you have one person works 80 hours a week, one person works zero, you meet those two in the middle and then you find out what the average is.
02:18:44.000 So it's not like most people are just saying, oh, I'm going to work one day a week.
02:18:47.000 Most of them are unemployed.
02:18:49.000 And when you're dealing with something when it comes to like alimony, when you want someone in the style that they've been accustomed to, you should take into account their whole fucking life.
02:18:59.000 You know, you shouldn't take into account the style they've been accustomed to over the last 12 months living with this crazy rich guy.
02:19:05.000 That's preposterous.
02:19:07.000 The idea that somehow or another, this man that you married who's worth a billion dollars, that you helped earn him, you know, half of what he made during the year that you were together, where's the evidence that you've ever been successful at making that kind of money in the past?
02:19:22.000 Why should you be entitled to that kind of money?
02:19:24.000 And I think the same is true with men.
02:19:26.000 When Kevin Federline was married to Britney Spears, that motherfucker never made a nickel, okay?
02:19:32.000 And I've seen him drive a Ferrari.
02:19:34.000 And that fat bitch didn't earn that Ferrari on his own. 1.00
02:19:37.000 He earned it off the bench.
02:19:38.000 Forgetting his rap career, Tom.
02:19:39.000 His rap career.
02:19:41.000 I'd like to.
02:19:42.000 I'd like to.
02:19:43.000 Unfortunately, it's burned into my brain.
02:19:44.000 It's the whitest thing I've ever seen.
02:19:46.000 There's two cases, Kevin Federlein and Tom Arnold.
02:19:48.000 We won on both of those cases.
02:19:50.000 Those cases are all men.
02:19:51.000 But remember, it's only 3% of alimony payments are men to women.
02:19:54.000 Sorry, women to men. 1.00
02:19:54.000 Yeah. 1.00
02:19:55.000 Women to men. 0.90
02:19:56.000 Yeah.
02:19:57.000 And it's $10 billion a year.
02:19:58.000 It's a $10 billion a year money transfer thing.
02:20:01.000 And it's pretty brutal.
02:20:02.000 I think it's brutal on men.
02:20:03.000 And I think it's brutal on women. 1.00
02:20:05.000 I mean, free stuff is bad for the brain unless you're like.
02:20:11.000 Free stuff, again, hey, you know, I mean, you're injured, you know, absolutely charity and all that.
02:20:16.000 But the focus on free stuff, I think, personality is like a muscle.
02:20:21.000 It needs resistance.
02:20:22.000 You need to have challenges in life.
02:20:24.000 Actually, if you have another topic, no, no, no, we can go on.
02:20:27.000 So one of the questions I get quite a lot in my call-in shows is people who say, I lack motivation.
02:20:32.000 I lack, you know, I don't know what I want to do with my life.
02:20:35.000 And I wanted to get your thoughts because you seem to be a guy who's almost vibrating with work and projects.
02:20:42.000 And, you know, like you're like this tuning fork that never stops.
02:20:45.000 What do you think is it that really gets your juices going and gets you committed and focused on achieving the things that you achieve?
02:20:53.000 Well, I don't think of it in terms of achievement.
02:20:55.000 I think of it in terms of interests.
02:20:57.000 What things fascinate me?
02:20:59.000 You know, I'm fascinated by martial arts.
02:21:01.000 I'm fascinated by comedy.
02:21:03.000 I'm fascinated by many, many different things.
02:21:06.000 I don't understand when people say they're bored because if I had the time to live 100 lives, I'd be speaking different languages.
02:21:14.000 I'd be living in different countries.
02:21:15.000 I would try a number of different careers because I think there's a lot of unbelievably fascinating, puzzling, complex things that you could study in this world.
02:21:24.000 That's just me and my personality.
02:21:26.000 But that's a personality also that I've cultivated over years of culture.
02:21:29.000 Well, you like that as a kid, too?
02:21:30.000 Well, I was involved in martial arts very early.
02:21:33.000 And I think that is one of the things that motivated me to explore difficult tasks.
02:21:39.000 Because through difficult tasks, you learn an incredible amount about yourself.
02:21:43.000 And through the fire of competition, you get to understand motivation.
02:21:51.000 You get to understand the resistance that you have inside your mind to doing hard work.
02:21:55.000 You get to understand the rewards of discipline.
02:21:59.000 You don't truly appreciate relaxation unless you've worked hard.
02:22:03.000 And that is the yin and the yang of life.
02:22:05.000 And I've said this to the point of people getting sick of it.
02:22:10.000 But one of the worst decisions a man can make, I can only speak for men, obviously, is to be comfortable.
02:22:17.000 I don't think you should try to be comfortable.
02:22:19.000 I think what you should try to do is try to earn comfort.
02:22:22.000 And if you can get a day off where you've worked hard and you've accomplished goals, that day off will be so sweet.
02:22:30.000 When I work hard and I sit in front of the TV, I enjoy the shit out of it.
02:22:33.000 I put my feet up.
02:22:34.000 I have a nice drink.
02:22:36.000 You have one of those chairs that nids your back or something.
02:22:36.000 I enjoy it.
02:22:39.000 Do you really?
02:22:39.000 I do have one of those.
02:22:40.000 They're great, right?
02:22:40.000 Those are great.
02:22:41.000 I don't use it that much, though.
02:22:42.000 Honestly, I'm more of a workaholic than I should be, probably.
02:22:46.000 If the balance was, I probably should relax more than I do, but I never feel like I earned it.
02:22:51.000 But that's part of the reason why when I do feel like I earned it, I can enjoy it.
02:22:55.000 It's because I am more connected to the idea that I need to accomplish things.
02:23:03.000 And it's not like for anybody else's benefit other than my own or anybody else's approval other than my own.
02:23:09.000 I just, when I have a task, whether it's today I'm going to write a thousand words, you know, or 2,000 or whatever the number is.
02:23:16.000 If I don't do that, I write things down.
02:23:19.000 Like I'll write down a list of things that get accomplished that day.
02:23:22.000 And if I don't accomplish that, I'll get sick.
02:23:24.000 Like it'll drive me fucking crazy.
02:23:26.000 If I can't fill out that list, that drives me nuts, you know, but that's what led me to be a championship level martial artist.
02:23:34.000 That's what led me to achieve.
02:23:36.000 It's like that.
02:23:37.000 It's the reinforcement of those goals.
02:23:41.000 Like understanding that you can achieve those goals.
02:23:44.000 It's going to be difficult.
02:23:45.000 You're going to push through the difficulty.
02:23:46.000 And then you're going to understand what difficulty truly is and how much of it is just mental, how much of it is just in your mind, this adversity to difficult task or to struggle.
02:23:57.000 And a lot of people have that.
02:23:58.000 They're scared.
02:23:59.000 They're scared of complications.
02:24:01.000 They're scared of failure.
02:24:03.000 Failure is a big one that people are afraid of.
02:24:05.000 But failure is one of the most important things you could ever have as far as the motivation to do things differently.
02:24:11.000 One of the reasons why I think that I'm good at friendships and relationships is because I've failed at them in the past.
02:24:19.000 One of the things that I'm good at comedy is because I've bombed on stage.
02:24:22.000 One of the reasons why I'm good at work is because I've been a shitty worker in the past.
02:24:27.000 And I know the feeling of failure, the feeling of shame of being like a weak, non-motivated, lazy person.
02:24:35.000 It's a weak feeling.
02:24:37.000 You don't respect yourself.
02:24:39.000 And I have this phrase that I use all the time to people to try to motivate people.
02:24:42.000 I say that be the hero in your own movie.
02:24:45.000 Pretend that if your life was a movie and your life started now, what would the hero do?
02:24:50.000 What would the person that you respect do?
02:24:51.000 What would the person that you admire?
02:24:52.000 A person that inspires you?
02:24:53.000 What would they do?
02:24:54.000 Well, do that shit.
02:24:55.000 And if you do that, you slowly build momentum.
02:24:58.000 You like, today I did what I wanted to do.
02:25:01.000 Today I started a class in yoga.
02:25:04.000 I did all these things that I was saying I wasn't going to do.
02:25:04.000 I did this.
02:25:06.000 And now I feel momentum.
02:25:08.000 And momentum is a very important point in people's lives.
02:25:12.000 That's why some folks don't like to take days off because they feel like they're losing momentum and they sort of have to restart the wheel up again after a vacation.
02:25:19.000 It's like what they say, if you want something done, give it to the busy guy.
02:25:22.000 It's true.
02:25:22.000 Yeah.
02:25:23.000 Because he's in motion.
02:25:24.000 He'll get some things done.
02:25:25.000 That's true.
02:25:26.000 There's certain people that I know that just are lazy as fuck and they can never get anything done.
02:25:31.000 You're like, did you do that thing?
02:25:32.000 No, I just didn't get to it.
02:25:33.000 Like, what are you talking about?
02:25:34.000 You didn't get to it.
02:25:35.000 What did you do?
02:25:36.000 You were out Instagramming pictures of you at a strip club two days ago.
02:25:40.000 Like, how the fuck did you not get that done?
02:25:42.000 Like, you had all the time to do all these other things, but you don't have the time to do the thing that's going to enhance your life, that's going to benefit you, that's going to move forward your career, your life, your prospects, your art, whatever it is you're working on.
02:25:53.000 You know, I think that it's hard for people because we operate on the momentum of the past.
02:25:58.000 And a lot of times our past has been just a graveyard, just a wreck of disasters, one after the other.
02:26:07.000 And you look at that and you go, well, that's who I am.
02:26:09.000 I'm a failure.
02:26:10.000 I drink too much.
02:26:10.000 I fall asleep at work.
02:26:12.000 I do that.
02:26:12.000 I do this.
02:26:13.000 And we put kids in these schools where they just sit there passively receiving stuff rather than actively doing stuff.
02:26:18.000 And then we wonder why they may, some of them lack motivation when they get older.
02:26:21.000 And I think there's a big problem in the fact that the job of being a teacher should be a revered position that's incredibly difficult to earn.
02:26:31.000 I think it should be just like, you know, being someone who is in charge.
02:26:36.000 I mean, being someone who's in charge of the development of the mind of your child is such an incredible position, an incredible...
02:26:58.000 Do you have teachers that you remember from when you were a kid?
02:27:00.000 Yeah, I do.
02:27:00.000 Like good ones.
02:27:01.000 They stand out like the sun in the sky.
02:27:05.000 I can't see the other teachers in my head for the few good ones that I had.
02:27:05.000 And you can't see any star.
02:27:09.000 If they could all be like him, obviously it'd be great.
02:27:09.000 What an incredible.
02:27:11.000 But I mean, teachers, yeah, awesome responsibility.
02:27:14.000 Yeah, I had some great ones.
02:27:15.000 I had a few great ones that were just really good people that were smart and kind, and they profoundly influenced.
02:27:22.000 I had a science teacher in seventh grade that I had a discussion with him, just me and him one day, and I never forgot it.
02:27:27.000 We were talking about space.
02:27:28.000 And he was a really interesting guy.
02:27:30.000 It was a bad neighborhood where I lived in.
02:27:33.000 I lived in Jamaica Plain, which was like this neighborhood in Boston, just outside of Boston.
02:27:41.000 It was a really shit neighborhood at the time.
02:27:43.000 It's become a little bit gentrified now, but back then it was just really sketchy.
02:27:47.000 Very poor kids.
02:27:48.000 And there was a kid that was in my class.
02:27:50.000 I guess it was 7th grade, 9th is high school, is 8th grade, because it was right before high school.
02:27:54.000 And this kid was 17 years old in the fucking eighth grade.
02:27:58.000 I mean, it was crazy because they would be there for the beginning of the year and then they would drop out.
02:28:02.000 And this science teacher was, you know, in this shit school system, but he was this genuinely kind, curious, patient man.
02:28:12.000 And he talked to me about space.
02:28:14.000 And I'd never considered the idea that space is never ending.
02:28:18.000 And he was explaining the concept of infinity to me and that there truly is no boundary.
02:28:22.000 And if you really, I remember he said, you ever really want to make your head hurt?
02:28:26.000 Just stare at the sky and try to wrap your head around the idea that it never ends.
02:28:32.000 And we had this long conversation about it in between classes one day.
02:28:36.000 Not even a long, you know, 10 minutes maybe, but enough that I thought about that for years.
02:28:40.000 To this day, I remember that guy.
02:28:43.000 There's a great, Richard Feynman was this physicist, a fantastic guy.
02:28:47.000 And he told about his father, that he was pulling some wagon and he had balls in the wagon.
02:28:52.000 He said, you notice when you pull the wagon, the balls stay for a bit and then they bump up and then you stop the wagon, they keep going.
02:28:57.000 So he was talking about momentum and physics and all that.
02:29:00.000 And so, like all kids, he said, Well, why, why, why?
02:29:03.000 And then he got to a point with his father where he said, Well, why?
02:29:07.000 And his father said, That nobody knows.
02:29:10.000 Like, why is there gravity?
02:29:12.000 I mean, that nobody knows.
02:29:14.000 And I think those kinds of questions where you really stimulate your mind, I think is a great idea.
02:29:20.000 I was telling my daughter a couple of, I mean, maybe two months ago about, there's an old Spanish proverb that says, habits begin as cobwebs and end up as chains.
02:29:29.000 Way easier to break in the beginning than later off, right?
02:29:32.000 It's a great way to put it.
02:29:33.000 It's a great way to put it.
02:29:34.000 Wow.
02:29:35.000 And anyway, she just brought this up, you know, that we were talking about someone she knew and something that she didn't like that they did.
02:29:43.000 And she said, yeah, but they're still pretty much in the cobweb phase.
02:29:46.000 So they can probably still change it.
02:29:48.000 And she's like, well, even I didn't remember.
02:29:50.000 She's like, oh, yeah, the cobwebs and changed things.
02:29:52.000 Like, she really, that sunk in her.
02:29:53.000 And she's like five.
02:29:54.000 And she can remember those things that can really take you through life and give you real clarity.
02:29:59.000 I think that stuff is great.
02:30:00.000 And I remember those people who gave me those important lessons as a kid.
02:30:04.000 That's a great statement.
02:30:04.000 Yeah.
02:30:06.000 That's a big one, man.
02:30:07.000 Because that is so true.
02:30:09.000 If you can break them in the beginning, they say that if you do something for 90 days, it can become a habit.
02:30:15.000 It become an ingrained.
02:30:16.000 Positive or negative, yeah.
02:30:17.000 Yeah.
02:30:18.000 Positive or negative.
02:30:19.000 That's why I've run into people that all of a sudden they just, you look at them and they look great.
02:30:23.000 They've lost all this weight.
02:30:24.000 Like, what'd you do?
02:30:25.000 I just started every day doing this.
02:30:27.000 I started walking.
02:30:28.000 I started eating, you know, healthy vegetables and all this different shit.
02:30:32.000 Now, look at me, 90 days later, I'm all healthy.
02:30:34.000 You know, it can be done.
02:30:36.000 It's just very difficult.
02:30:38.000 And it sort of flies in the face of a lot of people like to harp on free will and determinism and there is no free will and these sort of, you know, I think those can be fascinating philosophical debates.
02:30:51.000 But I think as far as like your own life, it could be a massive distraction.
02:30:54.000 This idea, this concept that there is no free will, yeah, throw that shit out the window and just fucking get off your lazy ass and get shit done.
02:31:02.000 Because that's like this pontificating of whether or not free will is a real thing.
02:31:06.000 It's not going to fucking help you.
02:31:08.000 Well, and for me, I mean, I act as if I have free will because I know it's going to get me a better life.
02:31:15.000 And if I don't have free will, it was predetermined that I'm going to act as if I have free will, so I don't lose anything that way either way.
02:31:20.000 So, I mean, I'm just going to pretend like I have free will, maximize it as much as I can.
02:31:24.000 And if it turns out I don't, then I was predetermined to believe that anyway.
02:31:27.000 Yeah, I don't understand it.
02:31:27.000 So it doesn't matter.
02:31:29.000 I mean, the argument one way or the other that can be proven in each, well, Because apparently they can determine that you make decisions before you make decisions.
02:31:47.000 Deep down in the amygdala, like the base of the brain, top of the spine, that impulse is there, and then people make the decision, and they experience the decision up here, but the decision is happening down here.
02:31:58.000 I don't think that means that's inevitable for everyone.
02:32:00.000 That's part of self-knowledge, is learning what your emotional triggers are so that you can make decisions, right?
02:32:06.000 You're not just ex post facto rationalizing stuff that you want to do anyway.
02:32:10.000 You learn about yourself.
02:32:11.000 And I think that you can expand free will through self-knowledge.
02:32:14.000 It's what Socrates said at the very beginning of philosophy.
02:32:17.000 The first commandment is know thyself.
02:32:18.000 And that way you can figure out your own cognitive biases and you can figure out what blocks you and what your prejudices are.
02:32:26.000 And then I think you get choices.
02:32:27.000 But I don't think you get choices just for having a brain.
02:32:29.000 You really have to explore it.
02:32:30.000 Like you don't know a country just by falling into it, right?
02:32:33.000 You jump out of a plane, land somewhere.
02:32:35.000 You have to explore it.
02:32:36.000 You have to map it.
02:32:36.000 You have to know the terrain.
02:32:37.000 And then you're competent at the country.
02:32:39.000 And I think that free will is pursued through self-knowledge, and that gives you the choice.
02:32:44.000 But so, yeah, if you think you can, you think you can't, you're right.
02:32:47.000 I mean, if you think you have free will or you think you can't, you're kind of right.
02:32:49.000 Yeah, and that impulse, I would love to know if there's been any studies done on whether or not people ignored that impulse, because there's a lot of impulses that you have that you never act on.
02:32:58.000 You have a quarter second.
02:33:00.000 Scientifically, you have a quarter second to interrupt an impulse.
02:33:04.000 How much research has been done on that?
02:33:06.000 Like, how many people were observed and how many different complicated periods of their life where they've been forced to have weird situations?
02:33:14.000 How many people wanted to strangle somebody and didn't?
02:33:16.000 You know, I mean, how many people are you?
02:33:18.000 No, I think most people, given how few strangulations there are in the world, I think most people manage to slap down the strangle hands.
02:33:24.000 You know, that's really important.
02:33:25.000 Wouldn't that be like the number one argument against free will is how few people get strangled?
02:33:30.000 We've all been there.
02:33:31.000 Oh, we've all been there.
02:33:32.000 Now, but what about the days when, do you have the days where you just like the elephant of inertia sits on your chest and just flats up your nose and you just don't want to get anything done?
02:33:41.000 I mean, how do you deal with those?
02:33:43.000 I mean, do you just let them ride?
02:33:46.000 No.
02:33:46.000 No, they don't.
02:33:47.000 No.
02:33:48.000 If they do, I'm usually sick.
02:33:51.000 It's usually like a health thing.
02:33:52.000 And if I'm sick, I'm pretty good.
02:33:54.000 I've gotten really good at not doing shit when I'm sick, but just drinking liquids and eating healthy foods and relaxing.
02:34:01.000 and I'll go in the isolation tank and meditate.
02:34:04.000 I'm not a big...
02:34:07.000 I think if there's something wrong, like I'm like, I just usually let everything recover.
02:34:13.000 You're listening to your body, but you basically are saying we need some downtime.
02:34:16.000 We need some recharge time.
02:34:17.000 Well, that's where my energy comes from because my mind is usually pretty damn energetic.
02:34:22.000 My mind is always filled with a bunch of different things that I'm trying to accomplish and different things that I'm interested in and pursuing.
02:34:27.000 But if I'm down, usually it's my body.
02:34:33.000 I get that sometimes I worked out too hard.
02:34:35.000 If I'm overtrained, I get exhausted.
02:34:37.000 But I just recover.
02:34:39.000 But I don't discount people's, the mental blockades and the different issues that some folks do have with motivation and with depression.
02:34:49.000 And whether that depression comes from chemical abuse, abusing substances, or whether it comes from a biological perspective.
02:34:58.000 Kara Santa Maria will be on next week on the 1st. 0.97
02:35:02.000 And, no, I mean, soon.
02:35:05.000 Next week?
02:35:06.000 Yeah.
02:35:07.000 Next Monday, I think.
02:35:09.000 And she's a neuroscientist as well, and she's had issues.
02:35:12.000 The 25th, that's when she's coming on.
02:35:14.000 And she's had issues herself with depression.
02:35:16.000 She's pretty open about it.
02:35:17.000 And she understands it much more from a chemical standpoint, from what's going on inside the mind.
02:35:25.000 And there's a lot going on there that keeps people on that fucking couch. 0.87
02:35:29.000 And What's interesting is it doesn't exist in all cultures, and that it may be also the society that we live in, that this is a very unnatural way to live your life, and that the human body is not essentially not designed for sitting in cubicles, sitting in cars, no motion.
02:35:46.000 And they've also shown that exercise has been as effective at mitigating depression as have antidepressants, as have SSRIs.
02:35:56.000 I think physical exercise plus therapy is your best times for long-term recovery from the data that I've read with regards to depression.
02:36:03.000 Yeah, I think people need to get their juices flowing.
02:36:06.000 I think it's so underrated, and it's associated with vanity.
02:36:12.000 It's associated with all sorts of insecurities about your body that you're trying to pump yourself up and your ego.
02:36:18.000 But put all that out of the window.
02:36:20.000 I mean, God damn it, put a fucking bubble outfit over your head so you don't have to look at your body if you're really tweaking on that.
02:36:26.000 It's not about that.
02:36:26.000 It's about movement.
02:36:28.000 It's about getting all your endorphins flowing.
02:36:30.000 It's about getting your body into a natural state because the body's natural state is in motion.
02:36:35.000 We're not supposed to be sitting around doing nothing all day.
02:36:38.000 We're supposed to be hunting and gathering, and that's how our body was designed.
02:36:41.000 And you know, I mean, we're not the strongest species, and we don't have the biggest teeth, but you know one thing that human beings have is like ridiculous physical endurance.
02:36:49.000 Like what I've read is that the ancient hunters, do you know how they used to get their substance hunting?
02:36:54.000 You chase that animal until its heart just fucking explodes in its chest, and then you're like, I win, and you drag it back to camp.
02:37:02.000 Like 20 miles of running, and then the zebra's heart just dies and you get it.
02:37:06.000 It's also in Africa because it's extremely hot and they don't sweat. 1.00
02:37:10.000 Animals sweat from their tongue.
02:37:13.000 That's why a dog has his tongue hanging out when it's hot.
02:37:15.000 Their body doesn't sweat water.
02:37:17.000 So they overheat very quickly.
02:37:19.000 So they're good for sprints, but they're not good for long-term long endurance runs.
02:37:24.000 And that's what we're doing.
02:37:25.000 And we get that, of course, being bipeds, right? 0.99
02:37:28.000 I mean, I think I read somewhere that one of the ways that we were able to get our most expensive organ is the brain, right?
02:37:33.000 But one of the reasons we're able to have the brain is because when we were on all fours, more of our back was exposed to sunlight, and so we had to spend more of the water and energy cooling ourselves off.
02:37:43.000 Once we went bipedal, much less sun is hitting the body, so you have more water available to grow the brain because the brain requires a lot of energy and water.
02:37:50.000 Just really cool things.
02:37:51.000 I love that biological development stuff, I think, is really, really fascinating.
02:37:54.000 Yeah, that is unbelievably fascinating.
02:37:56.000 The development of the human brain, as opposed to the brains of lower hominids, is one of the biggest mysteries in all of science. 0.70
02:38:02.000 So many different things have been attributed to what caused the human brain to grow double in brain size over a period of two million years.
02:38:10.000 It's pretty fascinating, but thank God it happened, I guess.
02:38:13.000 But this conversation would probably be a lot less entertaining if we were just grunting and pounding our foreheads into the microphone.
02:38:19.000 Not only that, if it was the same conversation, who the fuck would listen?
02:38:23.000 Drudette.
02:38:23.000 They wouldn't be able to understand.
02:38:25.000 Yeah, I think there's a huge amount of human potential that's locked up in people's insecurities and inertia.
02:38:31.000 And I really would love to find a way and just get people to understand how much fun being in motion is and how much fun exploring and challenging yourself and challenging the world, how much fun it is.
02:38:45.000 But I think that there's just a lot of, I don't know, negativity, hostility, of course, on the internet, as we were talking about earlier.
02:38:51.000 It's kind of not all over the place, but it's definitely there.
02:38:54.000 And I just wish people could understand that there is very little to be afraid of in life.
02:38:59.000 I mean, other than death, which is going to happen whether you're busy or not.
02:39:03.000 What's interesting, we're talking about essentially like if we could talk to Robin Williams, if we could pull Robin Williams aside before he committed suicide and have these conversations with him.
02:39:13.000 If you look at that guy, he is in a way a great example of someone who on paper should be unbelievably happy.
02:39:22.000 He's been insanely successful.
02:39:25.000 He is loved by millions and yet still not happy.
02:39:28.000 And one of the reasons is you look at his life and it's this series of things that went wrong, series of Coke binges and alcoholism and breakups of the marriage and regret for the way he was raised by his parents and all these different things that you carry around with you like weight.
02:39:47.000 And it's very difficult to shed that weight.
02:39:49.000 I don't know what he did besides counseling.
02:39:52.000 I don't know if he was an exercise guy or if he did yoga or what his diet was like, but there's a lot of people out there that are dragged down by their past.
02:40:05.000 That right now, their heart's beating, they're breathing out of their mouth, their fucking brain is functioning, but they're just burdened.
02:40:13.000 They're burdened by their past.
02:40:14.000 And it's a huge issue with folks.
02:40:17.000 Like getting a fresh start, like getting a reset, getting this, you know, this escaping all the bullshit of their past.
02:40:24.000 It's very, very hard for folks to do.
02:40:28.000 When I was 20, yeah, by 20, I was at the National Theatre School studying acting and playwriting.
02:40:35.000 And I was in the play King Lear.
02:40:37.000 And we had this delightfully insane director who was...
02:40:47.000 And we were all method actors, you know, all grew up on Brando and stuff like that.
02:40:51.000 So it was all internal, and we were just...
02:40:59.000 And he said, why isn't anyone reacting?
02:41:03.000 And we said, we all said, well, but I felt it inside.
02:41:07.000 And he's like, this is theater, right?
02:41:09.000 Nobody has a window into your head.
02:41:10.000 You've got to do something.
02:41:12.000 And he got himself, he actually ended up throwing chairs.
02:41:15.000 He's like, just do something.
02:41:17.000 Do anything.
02:41:18.000 I don't care.
02:41:19.000 Do a somersault.
02:41:20.000 Produce a dove from inside your cloak.
02:41:23.000 But do something so the audience knows that something is happening.
02:41:27.000 Don't just stand there and expect them to be mind readers.
02:41:29.000 And I think that that had a big impact on me just in terms of life as a whole.
02:41:34.000 You have to be out there doing stuff.
02:41:35.000 I mean, what goes on in our heads is great, but if it's not out there in the world, we'll take it with us when we die and nobody will ever know anything about it.
02:41:43.000 And I just never really wanted to have a life where I sort of go through life and into death like a spear into a still lake, you know, barely leaving a ripple.
02:41:51.000 And I think that the challenges of an active and challenging life where you're, you know, messing with society's perceptions and trying to Advance the moral cause that you are passionate about is so worth it.
02:42:05.000 I wish people could just live one day on the other side of that fear.
02:42:08.000 I wish that people could live one day in motion and then they would never be satisfied with the inertia of their lives.
02:42:14.000 But until you get there, I think it's really half, really tough for people to picture what it's like.
02:42:19.000 I mean, you know, we were talking before the show.
02:42:21.000 I mean, you've got a special coming up.
02:42:23.000 I mean, you're doing this.
02:42:24.000 I mean, you're ferociously busy.
02:42:27.000 And I think if people who are inert could live a day in your shoes and recognize just how much fun it is and what a great challenge it is and how wonderful it is to be testing yourself on the edges of your capacities for significant periods of time, I think that they would go back and say, oh, I can't do this anymore.
02:42:45.000 But I think until you've experienced it, that's the tough thing.
02:42:47.000 Until you've experienced it, I think the inertia feels safer and better, if that makes any sense.
02:42:52.000 It's also important to surround yourself with other people that are also trying to accomplish things.
02:42:57.000 When you surround yourself with lazy people, it's very taxing.
02:43:01.000 They're kind of self-sabotaging people.
02:43:03.000 They kind of cockbuck your ambitions a little bit too, right?
02:43:05.000 Because they're like, oh, I don't know if that'll be a good idea.
02:43:07.000 I don't know if that'll work.
02:43:08.000 I don't know.
02:43:09.000 Yeah, well.
02:43:10.000 I lost my spinal fluid.
02:43:12.000 I can't feel my legs.
02:43:13.000 So there's a negative aspect to them being around, but there's certainly not the positive aspect of being around ambitious people.
02:43:19.000 If you're around happy, fun people that are full of energy, you feel happy and fun, and you're full of energy as well.
02:43:26.000 With stand-up comedians, that's a really important factor.
02:43:32.000 We grow the most when we're around others like us.
02:43:35.000 Like the best comedy communities, it's not one comic that stands out.
02:43:42.000 I started out in Boston and there was like 10, 12 great comics where I was.
02:43:48.000 And one of the things about that place is you would see all these great comics and they would inspire you.
02:43:53.000 And there's other towns where there are no great comics and there's no great comics coming up.
02:43:58.000 And you'll see like the local guys and they're dog shit.
02:44:00.000 Their acts are terrible.
02:44:02.000 And the reason why is they have no one to emulate.
02:44:04.000 There's no one around to build them up.
02:44:06.000 There's no community.
02:44:07.000 And stand-up comedy, it's very important to have a community.
02:44:11.000 I did all my growing as a comic in the communities of Boston, then New York, and then LA, the two, or three rather, strongest communities in the country.
02:44:22.000 Boston, not so much anymore, but at the time, huge.
02:44:25.000 And now New York is still just as giant and LA is giant.
02:44:29.000 And being in those clubs and being around those guys and seeing those other people that are out there writing new jokes and constantly expanding and creating and growing and getting better at the art form inspires people.
02:44:44.000 And that's, it cannot be underestimated.
02:44:47.000 Surround yourself with positive people and you'll be positive.
02:44:50.000 Surround yourself with shitheads and you'll be a shithead.
02:44:53.000 Or at least you'll be fighting against being a shithead.
02:44:55.000 Yeah, I mean, nobody expects to become a great tennis player if they play people who can't play. 0.96
02:44:59.000 I mean, you have to match yourself against the best.
02:45:02.000 And this is another thing, last random promise of the day.
02:45:04.000 But the people who have low expectations and low ambitions, I also find a little frustrating at times.
02:45:13.000 I mean, I think aim your sights as high as humanly possible.
02:45:16.000 I mean, there's no Schwarzenegger films unless that crazy bastard from Austria comes and says, I barely speak the language, but I'm going to go marry a Kennedy, run California, and make some great movies. 0.97
02:45:25.000 Don't forget, fuck my maid. 1.00
02:45:27.000 Well, there's that aspect too.
02:45:29.000 That's the problem with hyper ambition.
02:45:29.000 That aspect, too.
02:45:31.000 It manifests itself in sometimes unfortunate and uncomfortable ways.
02:45:35.000 Shack the alpha.
02:45:35.000 Absolutely.
02:45:38.000 But the people who, I mean, again, I sort of feel like, you know, I was sick last year and confronting mortality and all that.
02:45:45.000 And it's sort of how I've lived as a whole is whether you're great or not, whether your ambitions are high or low, death's going to take you either way.
02:45:54.000 And I think that it adds to the human capital of the world to strive to communicate passion, power, magic, creativity, virtue, whatever it is that you're good at.
02:46:05.000 It adds to the human capital of the world.
02:46:06.000 We all inherit this great stuff that comes rolling down the mountain of history from all the great people who've come before us.
02:46:11.000 Add a little bit, anything that you can, to that human momentum of energy and positivity.
02:46:17.000 I think that's so important.
02:46:18.000 And the people who want to do a little or get by, I just wish, it's the biggest regret that people have when they're old is that they played it small and they didn't take the risks that they wanted to.
02:46:29.000 Because there's this disaster on the other side of risk that never seems to materialize.
02:46:33.000 And really, it's like you're in some fight to the battle with your own hand puppets, you know, a fight to the death with your own hand puppets.
02:46:41.000 I think that people just take those gloves off and go and take life and have high ambitions and forget everybody who ridicules you for high ambitions and great things.
02:46:50.000 They don't matter.
02:46:51.000 And that's that great speech that Robin Williams has.
02:46:53.000 Forget them, forget them, he says to the man who's talking about the sweaty tooth madman, the boy who's got the poetic imagination.
02:46:59.000 He said, forget them, forget them.
02:47:01.000 Focus on your creativity and what is making you great.
02:47:04.000 And I would really, I think that human potential is the great untapped resource of the planet.
02:47:09.000 And I wish that there was ways to communicate.
02:47:11.000 I try to do this, of course, as best I can, but ways to communicate to people just how amazing a life can be, which is active, enthusiastic, passionate, and challenging.
02:47:23.000 And we get this incredibly brief opportunity.
02:47:26.000 I said recently in a podcast, the universe has repulsively fucked itself senseless to give you life.
02:47:32.000 I mean, in order for us to be here, like one single-celled organisms had to mate with each other.
02:47:37.000 I mean, that's gross.
02:47:38.000 I don't even know where they put what, but it's really disgusting stuff that goes on in a magnifying glass.
02:47:42.000 That's like the worst porn ever.
02:47:44.000 But we're all here because of this incredible striving for billions of years of this life.
02:47:48.000 And to not embrace that gift of existence in this brief time that we have, it just seems to me such a waste and such a disrespect to the incredible odds of us actually being here.
02:48:00.000 And being in this relatively free country and being in this incredible time of communication, technology, and human opportunity.
02:48:06.000 I really want people to try and grab that as much as possible.
02:48:09.000 You do not save up points that you get to redeem after you're dead.
02:48:13.000 Spend everything, leave nothing on the table.
02:48:15.000 And that's what I hope people can find a way to do.
02:48:18.000 Well, I think by living your life like that, you set an example that people can be inspired by.
02:48:22.000 And I think that having these conversations and having something that someone can listen to and they hear this and they go, you know what, I'm going to go fucking run Up a hill.
02:48:30.000 I'm going to go do something.
02:48:31.000 And people do do that.
02:48:33.000 I get messages from people that do hear these conversations.
02:48:36.000 It enhances their life.
02:48:37.000 And I've had so many people come up to me after the show and say that the podcast changed their life because they become motivated, because they never had anybody around them that was inspiring in any way.
02:48:47.000 And then all of a sudden, they get to hear conversations with inspirational people and they take these conversations and it fuels them.
02:48:53.000 And we need that.
02:48:54.000 You know, if you can't have that community in your neighborhood, you can have that community online now.
02:48:59.000 You can have that community by having access to these kind of conversations, by listening to songs that fire you up, by reading a book that gets you going, by hearing a conversation.
02:49:09.000 There's many, many, many methods.
02:49:10.000 And it's all about just having the access to these influences, by having the access to these positive things.
02:49:17.000 And you can enhance your life.
02:49:19.000 What one man can do and what one woman can do, another man and woman can do. 0.63
02:49:23.000 And nobody needs to be denied a great life.
02:49:25.000 But it will not come to you.
02:49:27.000 You have to at least go and meet it halfway.
02:49:29.000 And I hope that people, I know that your show gets a lot of people roused and gets a lot of people energetic.
02:49:35.000 And that I hugely applaud you for.
02:49:36.000 I think it's a fantastic contribution to the world to be able to inspire people, certainly in your comedy, which is fantastic.
02:49:43.000 I mean, by the way, if you haven't seen Joe, go see Joe.
02:49:46.000 But I think that that energy is incredibly positive.
02:49:49.000 And I think people who grew up around negative people or neutral people, they don't even know what it's like to have any kind of incandescence around them.
02:49:56.000 And if they see that, then it awakens in them a possibility that probably was not possible even within their own imaginations before.
02:50:04.000 And I think that social media and the internet and YouTube, it's giving people access to conversations that they probably have been sealed off from for who knows how many generations.
02:50:16.000 Certain sectors of society have not had access to enthusiasm, positivity, competence, efficiency, energy.
02:50:23.000 And now there's this amazing cross-pollination of energetic, enthusiastic people.
02:50:28.000 We can pollinate people who otherwise would never have had access to it.
02:50:31.000 I think what an amazing opportunity that is to unleash more human potential.
02:50:35.000 Yeah, we live in awesome times.
02:50:37.000 And I want to thank you for addressing all the criticisms and all the different things that I've been fielding.
02:50:43.000 And I think we really illuminated a lot of these.
02:50:46.000 I appreciate the opportunity.
02:50:47.000 And if someone wants to follow you, it's Stefan Molyneux on Twitter.
02:50:52.000 Can you spell that out for folks?
02:50:55.000 Can I give the secret handshake and cling on to enter the cult compound?
02:50:59.000 That's most important to me.
02:51:00.000 Yeah, so they can go to Free Domain Radio.
02:51:02.000 They can youtube.com slash free domain radio.
02:51:05.000 Twitter is Free Domain Radio.
02:51:08.000 And yeah, that's it.
02:51:09.000 And Stefan Molyneux, the spelling is, it's an F-S-T-E-F-A-N-M-O-L-Y-N-E-U-X.
02:51:19.000 Amen to that.
02:51:20.000 Molynu.
02:51:20.000 That's right.
02:51:21.000 That's it.
02:51:21.000 All right, brother.
02:51:22.000 Well, thank you very much, man.
02:51:23.000 That was a lot of fun.
02:51:23.000 I enjoyed it.
02:51:24.000 And thanks to our sponsor.
02:51:26.000 Thank you to legalzoom.com.
02:51:28.000 Go to legalzoom.com and use the code word Rogan at the referral box at checkout to save yourself some cash.
02:51:37.000 We will be back next week.
02:51:39.000 As I said, Monday, Cara Santa Maria.
02:51:42.000 Tuesday, Steve Ranella returns.
02:51:44.000 And we've got some other podcasts for later in the week as well.
02:51:48.000 Denver, see you guys soon.
02:51:50.000 I'm coming this weekend, recording my Comedy Central special Saturday night, Comedy Works in Denver, downtown.
02:51:58.000 Big kiss.