The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #562 - Paul Stanley

00:00:17.000 And we're live.

00:00:18.000 You don't have to wear headphones if you don't want.

00:00:20.000 You're Paul Stanley.

00:00:21.000 I do what I want.

00:00:21.000 That's right.

00:00:22.000 You can do whatever the fuck you want. 1.00

00:00:24.000 You want to take a shit on the floor over there? 1.00

00:00:26.000 You feel free. 1.00

00:00:27.000 Hey, you know, use your imagination.

00:00:28.000 If that's what turns you on.

00:00:29.000 It's not, but I would accept it.

00:00:31.000 I wouldn't even take photos of it.

00:00:33.000 I wouldn't even tell anybody.

00:00:34.000 I'm just putting Joe Rogan Podcast.

00:00:36.000 You put it now on Twitter?

00:00:37.000 Yeah.

00:00:38.000 You did it.

00:00:38.000 Okay.

00:00:39.000 Okay.

00:00:39.000 Beautiful.

00:00:40.000 We're live.

00:00:40.000 Good.

00:00:41.000 First of all, I just want to say thank you very much for being here.

00:00:44.000 When I was a little kid, I've been a fan of KISS since...

00:00:49.000 I can't remember when I wasn't.

00:00:51.000 Like, I was a tiny little kid when I first found out about KISS. So to have you here in my podcast, I've been to many of your shows, both pre-when you wore makeup, then when you got off of makeup, and then when you got back on makeup again.

00:01:04.000 So I've been through the full spectrum.

00:01:07.000 Solo, I had the solo albums.

00:01:09.000 I was there too.

00:01:10.000 You were there for the whole thing.

00:01:11.000 I've been through the whole thing.

00:01:13.000 Every show you were at, I was at too.

00:01:14.000 That's what I hear.

00:01:15.000 Yes.

00:01:16.000 But that is a weird thing, though, that you like...

00:01:18.000 You guys, you broke up, not broke up, but you got rid of Chris and you got rid of Ace.

00:01:25.000 And then you brought in new guys.

00:01:27.000 And now you kind of have guys that play those roles.

00:01:29.000 Is that how you're doing it now?

00:01:31.000 I don't know that you could...

00:01:32.000 I mean, that's a tough one to answer.

00:01:36.000 I think where we went astray is when we started...

00:01:40.000 I think?

00:01:57.000 It became a menagerie.

00:01:58.000 I mean, we had a fox and an Egyptian warrior.

00:02:02.000 Next we would have Turtle Boy and the Frogman.

00:02:05.000 So I think once we brought Ace and Peter back for the reunion tour, Which I hoped would go on forever.

00:02:14.000 In other words, I hoped that everybody would get back together, everybody would see the error in their ways, and we would move forward and stay together forever.

00:02:25.000 But when that wasn't to be, I thought, you know, we really built these four images.

00:02:31.000 Arguably, you can go anywhere in the world and people know who KISS is, regardless of whether they know who those people are.

00:02:38.000 To give up that because we found that those guys were no longer either capable or wanted to give it 100%, well, who loses out?

00:02:50.000 The fans.

00:02:52.000 Those images are the images that will continue when I'm not here either.

00:02:58.000 Yeah, that's gotta be a strange place to be where you and Gene are both these super-focused, healthy, non-drug-using guys, and then you have these two guys in your band that are integral parts of the band.

00:03:13.000 You know, I mean, Beth was a huge hit.

00:03:15.000 It was, and look, this whole show could turn into denigrating the former members, but I don't want to do that, but honestly...

00:03:26.000 That song was the product of a great producer who had a big hand in writing it and a co-writer who Peter used on a lot of things that he supposedly wrote.

00:03:40.000 But they were integral members of the band, and it's very difficult to move forward when two of the people are like...

00:03:52.000 At times, like flat tires, you're trying to move forward.

00:03:58.000 It becomes more of a problem when their reason for being is to foil and to throw off track what you're trying to do.

00:04:12.000 So, at some point, it really became more about trying to disrupt what we were trying to do With no regard to whether or not what they want to do was right or wrong.

00:04:24.000 They just wanted, let's screw Gene and Paul. 1.00

00:04:26.000 So we'll say no and they'll say yes.

00:04:28.000 So it really became very, very, very difficult.

00:04:31.000 So do you think they did that because, I mean, did they have a logical reason?

00:04:37.000 Was it just because they were self-sabotaging anyway?

00:04:39.000 I think self-sabotaging comes into it because I think that's been something that's run through parts of their lives.

00:04:47.000 But I also think that there was a lot of resentment.

00:04:51.000 And honestly, I don't believe in resenting people for what they can do that you can't.

00:04:57.000 If you're lucky enough to have people around you who can do what you can't, make them your best friend.

00:05:02.000 Yeah.

00:05:03.000 Learn.

00:05:04.000 Learn.

00:05:05.000 And everybody can't be the best at what they do, but you can benefit from being around those people.

00:05:15.000 Yeah.

00:05:16.000 Look, I never wanted or expected anybody in the band to do necessarily the same amount of work that I did, but I expected them to give 100%.

00:05:27.000 I was all for splitting things evenly in the original lineup of the band up until those guys departed the first time.

00:05:39.000 But you have to give your best.

00:05:44.000 When you say, like, resent, like, resent for what you, what they can't do, but they were great.

00:05:51.000 I mean, Peter Criss was a fantastic drummer.

00:05:53.000 Ace Frehley was a great guitarist.

00:05:55.000 What would they resent, other than your sobriety or your health?

00:05:59.000 I think focus and drive and perhaps...

00:06:02.000 Yeah, determination and seeing the whole picture and wanting this to be as good as it could be, as opposed to Yeah.

00:06:31.000 Look, it's a long time ago.

00:06:33.000 And it's kind of like talking about a girlfriend or a wife you had a long time ago.

00:06:39.000 And trying to disseminate what went wrong.

00:06:39.000 Right, right.

00:06:42.000 And at some point, it really doesn't matter.

00:06:44.000 Yeah, it's always hard to deal with people that are in that sort of self-sabotaging mode.

00:06:50.000 And you see it all the time.

00:06:52.000 One of the things that I always equate to is when you see people smoking cigarettes and they throw their cigarette on the ground and don't think anything of it.

00:07:00.000 And it's a super common thing.

00:07:02.000 It's very rare that you see people just throw trash on the ground in front of everybody.

00:07:06.000 But people will throw cigarettes on the ground in front of anybody.

00:07:10.000 Because they're sabotaging their own body, they don't mind just throwing stuff on the ground, too.

00:07:16.000 It's sort of the same kind of a mentality.

00:07:20.000 I think so.

00:07:21.000 And perhaps if it's okay for me to smoke, it's okay for me to discard my cigarette.

00:07:27.000 You're going to breathe the smoke secondhand, so here's a but.

00:07:32.000 I really don't know.

00:07:34.000 I don't know the mentality that...

00:07:52.000 You know, the idea of equality Some have to be more equal than others.

00:08:03.000 Everybody can be in the car together.

00:08:05.000 Somebody's got to drive.

00:08:06.000 We're all going the same direction.

00:08:08.000 But when people reach a point of saying, well, I want an equal amount of songs, well, do we leave off Strutter so we can put your song on, or do we leave off Detroit Rock City?

00:08:19.000 It doesn't work like that.

00:08:21.000 There's no...

00:08:23.000 I don't believe that there's any birthright or that we should expect a quota in anything.

00:08:32.000 We get what we deserve.

00:08:35.000 And somebody has to decide that.

00:08:38.000 Is that the most difficult thing about being in a band, is just managing all the egos and managing, you know, everybody has their own point of view where they're not getting appreciated or looked at with the proper respect?

00:08:51.000 That's often the situation in bands, and thankfully that's not the situation in our band.

00:08:57.000 Eric's been in and out of the band for 20 years, I think, at this point.

00:09:01.000 And Tommy's been around the band and been in the band, I think, over 10 at this point.

00:09:07.000 The key to a great band or any great situation is doing what's best for the situation, not what's best for you.

00:09:16.000 I don't have to be right.

00:09:18.000 I just want to see the right thing happen.

00:09:20.000 So if you're more tied up in the ego gratification or in the control factor, I honestly don't need to control anything.

00:09:31.000 But I do have a point of view, and I guess I've earned my place at this juncture.

00:09:37.000 Everybody gets a chance to stake their views, and hopefully they're always with the best intentions.

00:09:44.000 And I think that's the way the band works now.

00:09:48.000 We have a drummer who doesn't like to take a solo, and this guy could play a better solo with one hand than most drummers could play with every limb of their body.

00:09:56.000 So, everybody really, it's all for one and one for all.

00:10:01.000 You guys were one of the first bands that got really big doing live shows.

00:10:08.000 Like, your live shows were so spectacular that when you put a live album out, when you put out Kiss Alive and then Kiss Alive 2, Those albums were so big, like, I mean, and it's, obviously we're dating ourselves here, but just the albums,

00:10:23.000 when you'd open up Kiss Alive 2, that big, silver, dynamic record, I mean, it was awesome!

00:10:30.000 And the performances were so intense, you know, it was so much fun to listen to that it really boosted you guys up.

00:10:38.000 And when I was a kid, it would really drive me fucking crazy that I didn't hear your songs enough on the radio.

00:10:44.000 And when I did hear one of your songs, I got super excited. 0.71

00:10:47.000 I got pumped.

00:10:48.000 But it was always like Detroit Rock City or Beth.

00:10:51.000 It was never like Cold Gin or one of the more obscure titles.

00:10:56.000 Cold Gin, not a very obscure song, but it was...

00:11:00.000 You guys became big almost in spite of the business.

00:11:05.000 Yeah.

00:11:05.000 And I think to this day, we still retain a certain amount of being the black sheep.

00:11:13.000 We're still...

00:11:14.000 Look, it took 14 years for us to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

00:11:18.000 Not that necessarily I lost any sleep over it, but...

00:11:23.000 Validation from critics and people like that has been something that's been a long time coming, but it's never been an issue because our success was based upon people, real fans, the people who buy tickets,

00:11:39.000 buy albums, and stand by you.

00:11:43.000 So, certainly credibility and the stuff that the media would like to dictate is nothing that we've ever been a part of.

00:11:56.000 Didn't bother you at all?

00:11:58.000 Was it something that you came to get over, but did it bother you at all that you guys weren't getting the record play, or the radio play, rather, that you should have deserved?

00:12:05.000 Yeah, I was shocked in the beginning that some of the critics who made us their darlings when we were a nobody band in New York City, once we became successful, even in the earliest days,

00:12:21.000 we sold out.

00:12:22.000 Well, what do you mean we sold out?

00:12:24.000 You know, you think I wanted to just be your band, you know, this one guy with his typewriter?

00:12:30.000 So, you know, we did this to succeed and to be slighted for success.

00:12:39.000 I never got it. 0.93

00:12:41.000 Bands like television or a lot of the bands that came out of New York that went nowhere, went nowhere because they sucked.

00:12:50.000 The critics may have liked them, but they were irrelevant today.

00:12:55.000 And in the scheme of things, even back then, they were irrelevant.

00:12:59.000 It's nice to know that there were hipsters even back then when it came to liking things that are obscure.

00:13:05.000 That's a weird draw, isn't it?

00:13:07.000 Well, you know, it's not unusual in certain circles that certain people want to outdo each other by knowing something more obscure than the...

00:13:16.000 Oh, yeah, you like that band?

00:13:18.000 Well, I know a band that hasn't even sold an album.

00:13:21.000 You know, I know a band that...

00:13:24.000 It has no strings on their guitars.

00:13:26.000 So it becomes absurd.

00:13:29.000 It becomes absurd.

00:13:30.000 We've been doing this 40 years.

00:13:32.000 We just did 42 shows in America to 600,000 people.

00:13:37.000 So the public speaks loudly, and they ultimately dictate what is and what isn't.

00:13:46.000 It's a very obscure or a very strange instinct to want to find obscure things or more obscure things than other people.

00:13:55.000 Well, somehow that validates your...

00:13:57.000 Street cred?

00:14:01.000 Yeah, your credibility that somehow you know something less popular.

00:14:07.000 Less popular!

00:14:09.000 What's the point?

00:14:11.000 Well, your music, what's crazy is the music just kept getting better.

00:14:15.000 And so for anybody saying that you sold out when the music was always great, but it kept getting better.

00:14:20.000 It wasn't like, that happens with bands.

00:14:22.000 Like, some bands only have a few albums in them.

00:14:25.000 And then, for whatever reason, whether it's the ego divide between the band members, or...

00:14:30.000 I mean, what is it, you think, that syncs?

00:14:33.000 I love what I do.

00:14:34.000 I love what I do.

00:14:36.000 I wake up every day and go, this is another blessed day.

00:14:40.000 And that keeps it all fresh.

00:14:44.000 I love music.

00:14:46.000 I love rock and roll.

00:14:47.000 I love R&B. To me, there's two kinds of music, good and bad.

00:14:53.000 There's so much great music.

00:14:54.000 There's so much great art.

00:14:55.000 There's family.

00:14:56.000 There's so much to do in your life that I love it.

00:15:01.000 And I don't see any reason to stop.

00:15:06.000 I don't see any reason to get old or stop.

00:15:09.000 I'm having a grand old time.

00:15:11.000 Well, we all get old.

00:15:12.000 There's no way to avoid that, right?

00:15:14.000 Yeah, but you can do it gracefully, but again, that's up to somebody's perception of what gracefully is.

00:15:27.000 I have no desire to really get old.

00:15:34.000 You know, did I ever think I'd look like this at my age?

00:15:37.000 No, but it's good.

00:15:39.000 How old are you now?

00:15:40.000 62. You look great.

00:15:42.000 If I look like you at 62, I'll be happy as fuck. 0.99

00:15:45.000 I'm pretty happy. 0.99

00:15:47.000 I'm happy.

00:15:48.000 You know, my wife is spectacular. 1.00

00:15:50.000 I've got four great kids.

00:15:54.000 Life is great.

00:15:55.000 I make music.

00:15:55.000 I do the same thing now I did in junior high school.

00:15:58.000 I play the guitar in a rock band.

00:16:01.000 That's what I do.

00:16:03.000 I know, 62 is like, people think about like, oh, you're in your retirement years. 0.98

00:16:07.000 No, you're not fucking rocking in front of 20,000 people screaming their heads off. 0.67

00:16:11.000 Yeah, it's great. 0.97

00:16:14.000 It's certainly not what I thought it would be.

00:16:18.000 And that's part of the beauty.

00:16:19.000 A lot of times your perception of what something will be like in your life turns out to be completely false.

00:16:26.000 What we expect aging to be or what we expect certain people to be like, it's all based on preconceived notions that have no basis in reality.

00:16:36.000 Yeah, and this is the first generation, really, that's seeing rock stars deep into their 60s.

00:16:43.000 Just killing it.

00:16:44.000 You know, I mean, we thought of rock and roll as being a young person's game.

00:16:49.000 Well, it was.

00:16:50.000 It was, and with good reason.

00:16:52.000 When rock and roll first started, With the exception of certain artists, it really was a factory for record companies to create talent.

00:17:07.000 When you got tired of Fabian, they gave you Frankie Avalon.

00:17:11.000 When you got tired of Frankie Avalon, they gave you Jimmy Clanton.

00:17:15.000 They had all these teen idols and they just spoon-fed you and spoon-fed them songs.

00:17:21.000 Once you got tired of them, there was somebody else who came along.

00:17:25.000 Once bands started writing their own material, they got the chance to reflect their point of view, and as long as it reflected the fans' point of view, they could get older.

00:17:35.000 Rock and roll now has become much more like the blues, because you're constantly writing about your life, and as long as people can relate to it, you know, the day I start writing about...

00:17:47.000 You know, the butler didn't show up today or something like that. 0.99

00:17:50.000 Then you're fucked, you know? 0.99

00:17:51.000 Yeah, I saw Tim Allen go on stage once and he was talking about his Ferrari breaking down. 1.00

00:17:56.000 I just hung my head.

00:17:58.000 Yeah, I'm sure the whole audience is going, yeah, we got one of those too.

00:18:02.000 Yeah, I guess they forced him to not do stand-up while he was doing Home Improvement because he had sort of a risque act and that was like a very family-friendly show.

00:18:10.000 And then when he stopped doing it, he came back.

00:18:12.000 And when he came back, you know, he's...

00:18:14.000 His perspective is just so skewed.

00:18:17.000 He's this multi-millionaire, hugely famous guy, and what is he going to write about? 0.99

00:18:22.000 He writes about his fucking Ferrari breaking down. 0.98

00:18:23.000 Yeah, but you don't have to. 1.00

00:18:25.000 No, you don't.

00:18:25.000 You really don't.

00:18:26.000 I never became famous to cut myself off from the people who made me famous.

00:18:31.000 It was an escape for me.

00:18:35.000 I wanted it as an escape from a 9-to-5 job, but I never did it because I wanted to get away from life.

00:18:41.000 You know, if you go to the supermarket, I'm there pushing a cart.

00:18:46.000 You know, if you go to my kid's school, I'm there dropping them off.

00:18:49.000 You don't have a bunch of dudes at earpieces circling you, scanning the aisles, looking at the cereal aisle for strange folks. 1.00

00:18:55.000 That stuff is so pathetic. 0.99

00:18:57.000 And it's born out of a bunch of... 1.00

00:19:01.000 Spineless artists who need to be propped up by people around them who make them feel important.

00:19:10.000 The only reason you need all those bodyguards around you is because you got a lot of bodyguards around you. 1.00

00:19:14.000 If you just went about your business, you would give a shit. 0.99

00:19:17.000 But what if you like Justin Bieber? 1.00

00:19:19.000 What do you think about that pro little bastard? 1.00

00:19:20.000 What about if you were? 1.00

00:19:21.000 You know?

00:19:23.000 I mean, he's essentially what you were talking about before.

00:19:25.000 The people that the studios create, they write the songs for them, they put these artists, they prop them up, they put them into position.

00:19:31.000 But now here he is, this 20-year-old boy trying to manage essentially unmanageable fame.

00:19:38.000 Yeah, but it starts with your family and it starts with your parents.

00:19:42.000 And if your parents aren't there to give you a foundation and to be there to tell you when you're going off the rails, then you're in a lot of trouble.

00:19:51.000 So I really, when I see a kid in trouble, I look at the parents.

00:19:57.000 Yeah, well, that's a good point.

00:19:59.000 I've met his dad.

00:19:59.000 Seems like a nice fellow, but also seems like he could be one of my friends.

00:20:03.000 Yeah.

00:20:05.000 When you see a young guy like that, like a young 20-year-old guy who's just ridiculously famous, and you think about your life and your career, you guys did it in a very unusual way.

00:20:18.000 And one of the things that was very unusual is that you wore makeup.

00:20:21.000 And that was such a slick move. 1.00

00:20:23.000 Because you guys were famous as shit, and no one knew what you looked like. 1.00

00:20:27.000 And that's a double-edged sword, too, because... 1.00

00:20:29.000 On one hand, I kind of craved the recognition that that guy, the star child, was getting, but I wasn't getting.

00:20:36.000 When you can go to a newsstand, and every magazine has your photo on the cover, and you're standing there, and nobody knows who you are.

00:20:43.000 They're just going, who's the tall guy with, you know, the high heels on?

00:20:47.000 So, it was...

00:20:50.000 But, you know...

00:20:52.000 All the time, it's always going to come down to, at the end of the day, you've got to face yourself.

00:20:58.000 And do you like who you are?

00:20:59.000 And are you a good person?

00:21:01.000 And are you living a good life?

00:21:03.000 And are you falling prey to, like, having salaried friends around you?

00:21:09.000 A posse.

00:21:10.000 Yeah, a posse.

00:21:12.000 You know, I didn't want a posse. 1.00

00:21:15.000 I wanted a pussy. 1.00

00:21:17.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:21:18.000 Now, did you ever, during this time where you're sort of craving recognition, when you guys were massively successful on the cover of all these magazines, did you ever want to just put the Starchild outfit on and just walk around with no makeup on and go, hey, look at this magazine.

00:21:32.000 Hmm, who's this guy look like?

00:21:34.000 It was difficult at times to, like...

00:21:38.000 Want to be in the audience at these award shows?

00:21:40.000 I mean, I was like everybody else.

00:21:42.000 You want to, you know, hobnob with all these people.

00:21:46.000 And we didn't go out or be seen publicly, you know, without the makeup.

00:21:53.000 So it was an interesting dichotomy, we can say.

00:21:58.000 Well, very few people have ever had that moment.

00:22:00.000 I mean, I don't think anybody could, like, someone could show Justin Bieber.

00:22:04.000 Like, you could bring him to someone else who had been famous very young, and they could perhaps give him some advice.

00:22:10.000 But nobody could really give you guys advice.

00:22:12.000 There was nobody that was a gigantic international superstar who was essentially unrecognizable without makeup on.

00:22:20.000 Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne.

00:22:21.000 But no! 1.00

00:22:22.000 That's a fucking ridiculous trick. 1.00

00:22:25.000 Clark Kent with his fucking glasses. 1.00

00:22:26.000 I'd spot him in a heartbeat. 1.00

00:22:28.000 Isn't that great?

00:22:29.000 You take off the glasses and it's like, I don't know who this guy is. 0.97

00:22:34.000 Yeah, it's ridiculous. 0.81

00:22:35.000 Even Bruce Wayne. 0.91

00:22:37.000 You can see the bottom of his face. 1.00

00:22:39.000 You're going to know who the fuck that guy is. 1.00

00:22:41.000 His friends are going to go, dude, your mouth looks a lot like Batman's mouth. 1.00

00:22:44.000 That's the beauty of fantasy and comic books.

00:22:47.000 Yes, the beauty of fantasy and comic books.

00:22:49.000 Well, you guys kind of merged those worlds.

00:22:51.000 Yeah, and we really have created these iconic figures and these personalities that exist with us and without us and will continue to exist, whether it's comic books or merchandise.

00:23:11.000 Movies at some point.

00:23:13.000 All kinds of things.

00:23:14.000 It's really interesting.

00:23:15.000 We created alter egos that are ultimately much bigger than we are and much more timeless than we are.

00:23:23.000 Your movie that you guys made, you were essentially superheroes in a movie.

00:23:27.000 Was it Phantom of the Paradise, is that what it was called?

00:23:29.000 No, that was...

00:23:30.000 Phantom of the Paradise, that was Paul Williams.

00:23:33.000 Right, that was that movie.

00:23:34.000 I don't know if that was any better.

00:23:36.000 What was the name of the movie?

00:23:38.000 Kiss Meets the Phantom, or Kiss Meets the Phantom of the Park.

00:23:40.000 I still have no idea what that film...

00:23:42.000 The end of the film, I have no idea what it was about.

00:23:46.000 That was a real debacle, a real disaster.

00:23:51.000 There have been some pitfalls along the way, and at some point our manager said, you know, we should do a film.

00:23:57.000 I was like, okay.

00:23:59.000 Nobody ever said to us, you don't know how to act.

00:24:01.000 You should take some acting lessons, and you might want to read the script.

00:24:06.000 Yeah. 0.50

00:24:06.000 So, as soon as we started work on it, I remember just going, this sucks. 0.50

00:24:12.000 This is really bad. 0.60

00:24:13.000 And they would go, no, no, no.

00:24:15.000 This is like a Hard Day's Night meets Star Wars.

00:24:17.000 And I bought it.

00:24:19.000 You know, I bought it.

00:24:20.000 And I remember going over to Bill O'Coin, our manager, after one of the takes and going, this really is horrible.

00:24:25.000 And he's going, no, it's going to be great. 0.95

00:24:26.000 Well, it sucked. 0.96

00:24:28.000 That was a movie for TV, right? 0.97

00:24:30.000 Yes, but it actually played internationally in theaters.

00:24:35.000 And if you think the effects were bad on a television screen, you should see them blown up.

00:24:40.000 I mean, I had to go to a screening of it before it was shown on NBC. And it was on a big screen at the Screen Actors Guild.

00:24:50.000 And, you know, we're all going to concentrate.

00:24:52.000 And this box goes up in the air and you see the wires pulling it up.

00:24:56.000 But look, you know, this has been a great journey.

00:25:02.000 Nobody could make this stuff up.

00:25:04.000 No, nobody could make this stuff up.

00:25:06.000 But the path that you guys took really was a path that nobody had taken before.

00:25:10.000 I mean, you guys would go out in public.

00:25:11.000 You would wear, like, bandit masks and stuff.

00:25:14.000 You'd have, like, bandanas on your face.

00:25:15.000 People were trying desperately to take your photos.

00:25:18.000 Different time.

00:25:20.000 Now you have, you know, paparazzi are a breed at this point, whereas back then...

00:25:27.000 Literally, you could have somebody take your photo, and we would have guys run over and pull the film.

00:25:33.000 You can't do that kind of stuff now.

00:25:35.000 It was uncharted territory, I guess, at that point.

00:25:39.000 Well, now everyone's got a camera on their phone.

00:25:41.000 It's way more bizarre.

00:25:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:43.000 I mean, you have people...

00:25:46.000 I'm downloading photos of celebs without their clothes.

00:25:53.000 Technology has tainted a whole lot of things as much as it's helped.

00:25:58.000 Well, it's just made the world very strange.

00:26:00.000 It has.

00:26:02.000 The difference between being famous then and famous now, how much of a contrast is it?

00:26:08.000 Big contrast.

00:26:09.000 It's probably the difference between what it was like to be president 50, 60, 70 years ago and today.

00:26:19.000 And the kind of scandals that Clinton or some of the other politicians have had, all that stuff was still going on back, you know, in the time of FDR or Kennedy.

00:26:30.000 But it was just – it wasn't public knowledge.

00:26:35.000 It wasn't – You didn't see somebody, somebody didn't walk out of a hotel bedroom with somebody else and have their picture taken, and all of a sudden it was all over the media.

00:26:44.000 So things have changed.

00:26:47.000 If you don't want people to know something, don't do it.

00:26:50.000 That's the only way now, right?

00:26:51.000 That's the only way.

00:26:52.000 There are no secrets.

00:26:53.000 There are none, because if there's you and somebody else, they know.

00:26:56.000 Is that good or is that bad?

00:27:02.000 I don't know.

00:27:04.000 I don't know.

00:27:04.000 It depends on how much bad stuff you're doing.

00:27:07.000 Well, I don't even know if you could say bad or good, but it seems like there's a lot of people that embrace it and exploit it.

00:27:14.000 Like, do you remember for a long time, it was like for a year or so, women were getting accidentally photographed with no panties on getting out of cars.

00:27:23.000 And it was pretty obvious by just the angle of the photograph. 0.98

00:27:27.000 Like, how the fuck do you not know there's a camera down there? 0.95

00:27:29.000 Yeah, some guys up down on his knees. 0.99

00:27:31.000 Yeah, not even on his knees.

00:27:32.000 I mean, he's spread out on his stomach with the camera up your dress.

00:27:35.000 They had to have known.

00:27:37.000 I mean, like Paris Hilton and a lot of these girls. 1.00

00:27:40.000 I have to say that there are people now who know how to manipulate and use the media to their advantage.

00:27:48.000 Some people can become famous for doing a porn film with some, you know, and leaking a film with them and...

00:27:56.000 Her name is Kim Kardashian.

00:27:57.000 You can call her my name, man.

00:27:58.000 Yeah, you don't have to beat around the bush.

00:27:58.000 Really?

00:28:01.000 So to speak.

00:28:03.000 I don't think she has a bush.

00:28:04.000 That's also what's changed between then and now.

00:28:08.000 They're gone.

00:28:09.000 Porn won when it came to the aesthetic.

00:28:12.000 Yeah.

00:28:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:13.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:14.000 But, um...

00:28:16.000 Where are we going with this?

00:28:18.000 Well, we're not going anywhere.

00:28:19.000 But do you...

00:28:20.000 Could you...

00:28:21.000 When you see this day and age, could you imagine, if Kiss had started off today, how different things would be? 0.99

00:28:27.000 Oh, we'd be fucked. 0.98

00:28:27.000 I mean, in plain English, because... 0.98

00:28:31.000 The music industry as it exists today is not even an industry.

00:28:35.000 It's just shambles.

00:28:37.000 And now artists are in a position to have to take what the public, so to speak, is willing to give them.

00:28:45.000 In other words, with this onset of file sharing.

00:28:51.000 Well, file sharing is just a fancy way of saying stealing.

00:28:55.000 You can't share what you don't own.

00:28:58.000 The idea that somebody is taking songs or music off the internet and taking it for free and calling it file sharing is like me saying transportation borrowing and I steal your car.

00:29:12.000 Is it though?

00:29:13.000 Because if you steal my car, I don't have a car anymore.

00:29:16.000 But if you walk up to my car and make a copy of it and drive it off and I paid for the car but you didn't.

00:29:20.000 It doesn't work like that.

00:29:22.000 And when people create art with the...

00:29:26.000 Hope of being not only accepted, but also being rewarded so that they can pay their rent and send their kids to school and things like that.

00:29:36.000 And that doesn't happen.

00:29:38.000 That's what stealing does. 0.86

00:29:40.000 But the person who steals on the internet somehow doesn't feel the same as going into a store and stealing a cassette, which don't even exist anymore.

00:29:52.000 But if you go into a store, if you go into Barnes& Noble or someplace and steal a book, that's blatantly and very clearly illegal.

00:30:03.000 Downloading something somehow skirts the ethical and moral question of taking something that doesn't belong to you and not paying the person for it.

00:30:14.000 Look, for me, it's a question more about morality in my case.

00:30:19.000 It's not going to change my life any.

00:30:21.000 But it sure bothers me that somebody is taking what they don't own, and it bothers me that somebody who's trying to succeed now and starting off doesn't have a chance in hell, more than likely, of success.

00:30:38.000 Ever getting that pot of gold, you know?

00:30:40.000 But they get the pot of gold in a different way.

00:30:42.000 They get it through live performances.

00:30:44.000 They're not getting it through album sales.

00:30:46.000 Yeah, but that shouldn't be dictated to by the circumstances.

00:30:51.000 That should be a choice.

00:30:53.000 The idea, well, you're still getting it.

00:30:53.000 Right.

00:30:54.000 Well, who are you to decide where I get my money?

00:30:57.000 Well, you're still getting it over there.

00:30:59.000 But since when do you have jurisdiction over my revenue?

00:31:03.000 So...

00:31:03.000 I completely see your point, and I agree with you in a lot of ways, but I think that the reality of the times we're living in, like the digital world that we're living in, property is just, it's a very, it's a weird term when you talk about like digital property, like digital properties,

00:31:19.000 things being downloaded.

00:31:20.000 So that's...

00:31:22.000 That's true, and that's a problem, but it doesn't change the truth.

00:31:27.000 And the truth is that what you don't own, you can't take for free.

00:31:33.000 You can, but it's wrong.

00:31:36.000 It's morally wrong, it's ethically wrong, and it hurts people.

00:31:42.000 When the whole Napster controversy was coming out, Lars Ulrich was the public whipping boy.

00:31:47.000 When he came out, Lars Ulrich from Metallica came out and he was saying, hey, you guys are stealing.

00:31:54.000 We're going to take you to court.

00:31:55.000 This is all theft.

00:31:56.000 The backlash was tremendous.

00:31:58.000 I mean, he was thought of as persona non grata.

00:32:02.000 I mean, people went after that guy with a vengeance.

00:32:05.000 A lot of artists sat back and waited to see how the dust settled on that.

00:32:10.000 Well, a lot of artists are wondering where their royalties are now.

00:32:15.000 You can't put milk back in a bottle, spilled milk, and unfortunately, things transpired that there's really no getting around at this point.

00:32:26.000 So, was Lars out of line?

00:32:30.000 He was just saying, I should be paid.

00:32:30.000 No.

00:32:34.000 It has nothing to do with whether he's wealthy or not.

00:32:36.000 Who are you to dictate that he has enough?

00:32:40.000 I agree with you, but I think the way people were looking at it that didn't have a vested interest in it, the way they were looking at it is, it's very obvious that the reality of the world that we're living in is changing radically, as far as access to information and songs.

00:32:55.000 Have become information.

00:32:56.000 Once they became digitized, they became ones and zeros.

00:32:59.000 They're art.

00:33:00.000 I agree.

00:33:01.000 I'm not diminishing it in any way, shape, or form, but that art becomes information when it becomes ones and zeros.

00:33:07.000 And once ones and zeros go online, they go online.

00:33:10.000 I mean, it's almost impossible to stem the tide.

00:33:14.000 And when you see a guy like Lars Ulrich stepping out there in the early days, When people maybe thought that there was a way to put a stop to this, when people didn't...

00:33:24.000 Napster was like the first thing.

00:33:25.000 People didn't really understand BitTorrent.

00:33:27.000 They didn't understand a lot of the other possibilities when it comes to downloading and sharing media.

00:33:31.000 But now, it seems inevitable.

00:33:34.000 Is there a way to sort of meet in the middle?

00:33:37.000 Like, I've always had this attitude where if someone sends me something or, you know, someone sends me a YouTube link to a song, if I like it, I immediately buy the album.

00:33:49.000 Immediately.

00:33:50.000 I go to iTunes, I buy it right then and there.

00:33:52.000 Even if I'm not planning on listening to it right now, I do it out of respect for the artist.

00:33:56.000 If there's a song that I'm curious to hear that I haven't heard in a long time, I buy it.

00:34:00.000 But what if someone sends you a YouTube clip?

00:34:02.000 Is that okay?

00:34:05.000 You mean the shitty quality?

00:34:06.000 You're listening to it on an iPhone or on a laptop or something like that?

00:34:12.000 Look, there's a can of worms open here, and I really don't know what the answer is, but I do know that technology does not take the place of morality.

00:34:23.000 I'm not arguing you there.

00:34:24.000 I'm saying, is it possible to incorporate the both of them?

00:34:26.000 Well, you were saying, is it possible to meet in the middle?

00:34:29.000 And I would say, why do I have to meet you in the middle?

00:34:32.000 Why do I have to compromise because of circumstance?

00:34:35.000 You should respect my integrity and you should respect my art instead of me going, all right, well, you got me, so I'll take 50 cents on the dollar instead of you giving me the dollar?

00:34:50.000 Wrong.

00:34:51.000 It's wrong.

00:34:52.000 I see what you're saying, but if someone sends you a link and says, hey, Paul, there's this fantastic band, you've got to listen to this, and it's a YouTube link, do you just not click it?

00:35:03.000 No, I'll certainly watch it.

00:35:06.000 How is that different than listening to the radio?

00:35:08.000 I mean, a lot of people found out about you guys.

00:35:11.000 From listening to a song on the radio, and then they went out and bought it.

00:35:14.000 Is it the immediate access, as opposed to something being broadcasted on the terms of the radio provider?

00:35:20.000 I'm not sure.

00:35:23.000 I would say that whenever money is changing hands, the artist should be a part of that.

00:35:29.000 So, if commercials are being showed on YouTube, and revenue is being, if there's a revenue stream, then the artist should be sharing in that.

00:35:43.000 It's an interesting question because if I saw a band on television, hopefully I would see somebody and go, gee, I want to go buy their album.

00:35:51.000 And I would go buy their album.

00:35:52.000 So it's a selling tool.

00:35:54.000 But whenever money is generated...

00:36:00.000 either first hand or second hand and there's an artist involved the artist should be compensated unquestionably but do you feel like there's a difference between someone who's selling like pirate copies like I used to always feel real uncomfortable with that when I'd be in New York And they would sell these pirate copies of VHS tapes.

00:36:18.000 Remember those?

00:36:19.000 Or even CDs.

00:36:21.000 When they first figured out CD burners, people would sell pirate copies of CDs.

00:36:24.000 Yeah, and I'd go, boy, is that wrong.

00:36:25.000 Yeah, that's wrong.

00:36:26.000 That's totally wrong.

00:36:27.000 That's someone profiting, though, right?

00:36:29.000 Well, sure.

00:36:29.000 Well, isn't YouTube profiting?

00:36:32.000 Yeah, maybe they are.

00:36:33.000 Yeah.

00:36:34.000 Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they are.

00:36:36.000 But file sharing, they're not, right?

00:36:39.000 Well, file sharing, we go back to that.

00:36:43.000 People sharing...

00:36:47.000 Artistic material, sharing anything that should be paid for under some technical guise or jargon is just wrong.

00:36:59.000 Is there a way, though, to reconcile with the times?

00:37:03.000 I mean, it's not going to change.

00:37:05.000 File sharing is going to exist.

00:37:07.000 Was it Tom York and his band, didn't they do an album where they offered it on the internet and said, just pay what you would like for it?

00:37:18.000 Well, they got nothing.

00:37:19.000 Doesn't Radiohead do that?

00:37:20.000 Yeah, it was Radiohead.

00:37:22.000 Yeah, so they did it.

00:37:23.000 You know how much they got?

00:37:24.000 Didn't they get anything?

00:37:24.000 Nothing.

00:37:25.000 I thought they made some money off of that.

00:37:26.000 Find out.

00:37:27.000 Yeah, look and see what it averaged per album.

00:37:31.000 That's a total hippie move, right?

00:37:33.000 Pay what you want, man. 1.00

00:37:34.000 Yeah, it's a total, you know, total stupid move. 1.00

00:37:37.000 I don't think they'll do that again. 1.00

00:37:39.000 You don't think so?

00:37:40.000 No.

00:37:41.000 If they get high enough, they might.

00:37:43.000 Yeah, most of the time, the guy who wants to share the most has the least to share.

00:37:47.000 It's true.

00:37:48.000 That is so true.

00:37:49.000 Yeah.

00:37:49.000 That's very true.

00:37:50.000 I used to work out at this yoga studio, and it was a super hippie yoga place, and they used to have a basket.

00:37:55.000 You just pay whatever you want.

00:37:57.000 And I watched ladies pull up in their Range Rover, work out, and not put nothing in that basket. 1.00

00:38:01.000 He used to drive me crazy. 0.99

00:38:02.000 He used to drive me fucking crazy. 0.99

00:38:03.000 I'm like, You just pulled up in a Range Rover, you walked in, you did your yoga class, and you just left. 0.97

00:38:09.000 See, but I come from a different point of view.

00:38:12.000 I say to people as far as charities or anything else, you don't give until it hurts.

00:38:16.000 You give until it feels good.

00:38:18.000 You know what's in your pocket, and you know what's in your bank account, and that's how you should give.

00:38:23.000 You should give knowing what you can give as opposed to the idea that you give grudgingly.

00:38:29.000 I agree 100%.

00:38:31.000 But do you see a possible point of view, and I'm playing devil's advocate here, you see a possible point of view for a young, poor kid who doesn't have any money, who's a huge Kiss fan, who just, you know, wants to be able to listen to your music and just can't afford it, can't afford to buy it,

00:38:46.000 and so he downloads a copy.

00:38:49.000 Is he stealing?

00:38:50.000 Sure, of course he's stealing.

00:38:52.000 Circumstances don't change morality.

00:38:56.000 Circumstances don't change what's ethically right and wrong.

00:39:00.000 If there was no internet...

00:39:03.000 Would it be okay because he really loves Kiss to go into a record store back then and steal a record?

00:39:07.000 Hell no.

00:39:08.000 I agree, but isn't it different where it's a physical copy that someone had to actually print up?

00:39:13.000 I mean, obviously your art created, it took a long time and a lot of effort and work and creativity to put together.

00:39:18.000 Does it really matter if it's on vinyl or if it's accessed through a computer?

00:39:22.000 The only difference is that if someone's accessing it to a computer, I could send you a copy of something, and it just takes five seconds.

00:39:27.000 I say, oh, here, have a copy of this.

00:39:29.000 But nobody loses.

00:39:29.000 So what?

00:39:31.000 Of course.

00:39:32.000 Of course we do.

00:39:33.000 We do if you were actually going to buy it.

00:39:35.000 If you're going to buy it, I'm like, Paul, save your millions.

00:39:38.000 I'm going to give you this copy for free.

00:39:40.000 Well, then, you know, then maybe.

00:39:42.000 But if you weren't going to buy it anyway, and someone just gives it to you, is it possible?

00:39:46.000 I mean, that's one of the points of view that people have today, is If I wasn't going to buy a particular album, we're going back to records or cassettes, and you gave it to me, you already paid for it.

00:39:55.000 Right.

00:39:56.000 Absolutely.

00:39:56.000 So, if you pay for something and then give it to me, okay, maybe there's a point there, but the idea that you took something for free and gave it to me, no.

00:40:07.000 Well, if I took something and I paid for it and made a copy of it, though.

00:40:11.000 Perhaps if it was one.

00:40:13.000 You know, we're splitting hairs.

00:40:16.000 We're splitting hairs.

00:40:16.000 But I completely respect your opinion, and I completely respect your point of view.

00:40:21.000 And mind you, it doesn't change my life one bit.

00:40:24.000 I think it's ethically and morally wrong, but my concern more is for somebody who's up and coming, or somebody who says, you know, I'm just doing this for the art of it.

00:40:34.000 Well, that's okay.

00:40:36.000 You don't need money.

00:40:37.000 Money may not matter to you until you need money.

00:40:39.000 You know, I've known people who said, you know, I'm just doing this because I love doing it and money's not important.

00:40:47.000 Well, that's because your bills are still paid.

00:40:49.000 When the bills stop being paid, money's going to be real important.

00:40:53.000 Yeah, people always say money doesn't buy you happiness. 0.99

00:40:55.000 You're absolutely totally correct, but being broke as fuck will make you sad. 0.99

00:41:19.000 That's true, too. 0.99

00:41:21.000 The great thing about having money and success, I found, is that you stop putting the onus on things that have no relevance ultimately to your happiness or your state of mind.

00:41:35.000 In other words, the idea, I'm not unhappy because the I don't have money to pay the bills.

00:41:40.000 I can pay the bills now, and I'm still unhappy.

00:41:43.000 What's going wrong?

00:41:44.000 So I think the great thing about becoming successful, hopefully, and sometimes it's people's downfall, and that's why people wind up with a shotgun in their mouth or a needle in their arm, is because they think that success is going to buy them happiness, and they wind up miserable.

00:42:02.000 And then you have to, you know, you have your come to Jesus moment when you decide, okay, what now?

00:42:08.000 You either spend a whole lot of money on psychiatry or therapy, or you start numbing yourself.

00:42:16.000 What I found is the moment I started making money, what happened was all of a sudden I felt a weight lifted off of me.

00:42:22.000 Where most of my life I was day to day, bill to bill, worrying about how I'm going to pay this, how am I going to pay my rent, put gas in my car.

00:42:30.000 And then when I started making money, all of a sudden that went away.

00:42:33.000 You know, I wasn't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I knew that I could pay my bills.

00:42:37.000 I was like, whoa, that's a huge relief that most people really never get to experience in their life.

00:42:43.000 Well, also...

00:42:44.000 People tend to go, if I had this, I would be happy.

00:42:47.000 The great thing about having that is finding out whether or not you truly are happy.

00:42:54.000 In my case, I was still pretty miserable, and that That's really what my book is about.

00:43:02.000 I had a New York Times number two bestseller, and the book is now in Swedish, Japanese, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, and on and on.

00:43:17.000 And really, I was born deaf on one side, without a right ear, and in a family that wasn't very supportive.

00:43:26.000 And...

00:43:28.000 I thought that success was going to be the key to contentment and happiness.

00:43:32.000 And like a lot of other people, I thankfully became successful only to find out that it didn't change anything.

00:43:39.000 And then the struggle becomes, okay, what's it going to take to be happy?

00:43:45.000 Isn't it fascinating that a lot of people that become really successful become really successful because of a hole?

00:43:52.000 Absolutely.

00:43:53.000 Look, it takes a person with a plethora, a vast amount of insecurity to be comfortable in front of a crowd.

00:44:06.000 The fact that you want to get up in front of a crowd and get approval from a mass of people only says I mean, it speaks volumes about your lack of self-confidence.

00:44:19.000 So just the fact that you want to be an entertainer, a comedian, whatever it is, and be in the limelight, means that you're seeking approval that you innately don't have.

00:44:29.000 A disproportionate amount of need when it comes to attention, when it comes to love, usually corresponds to a lack of that in childhood.

00:44:40.000 Sure, absolutely.

00:44:41.000 Or in adulthood, You're satiating that need as an adult that probably was born out of your childhood.

00:44:51.000 But at that point, you can say, well, I can get this fixed every night by going in front of an audience.

00:44:59.000 Which is only temporary.

00:45:02.000 Or let's do some digging and figure out what's really wrong here.

00:45:06.000 And that will only enhance the performance and everything else.

00:45:10.000 It won't take the place of it.

00:45:12.000 It will embellish it.

00:45:14.000 So you changed your motivation.

00:45:15.000 Your motivation became instead of just get love, just get all this love and get all this fame and then I'll feel happy.

00:45:23.000 Then it becomes what?

00:45:27.000 The fact that there's all these people who drop like flies from all kinds of addictions is just proof that people can be famous and miserable and it doesn't really satiate what's wrong inside you.

00:45:45.000 Fame gives you an amazing opportunity to go out there and seek help.

00:45:50.000 And, you know, when I was in my teens, I walked into Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, went into the psychiatry division and went, I need some help.

00:46:01.000 When you were in your teens?

00:46:02.000 So it was before you were even famous.

00:46:02.000 Yeah.

00:46:04.000 Sure, sure.

00:46:07.000 I've always been a survivor and somebody who wanted to...

00:46:12.000 Not only succeed, not only survive, but thrive.

00:46:15.000 So I found myself realizing that if I kept on the path that my parents were the role model for, I was going to be in a whole lot of trouble.

00:46:28.000 I wanted to become successful.

00:46:29.000 I loved music.

00:46:32.000 I certainly craved adulation, but I also knew that it wasn't really what was going to make me happy.

00:46:38.000 It wasn't going to make me content.

00:46:41.000 It's fascinating that you had the insight when you were just a teenager to realize that this is a path that's going to lead to doom.

00:46:48.000 I think a lot of people maybe brush that aside and actually have that within them.

00:46:56.000 I think instinctively we're animals and we sense danger and we know more than we think we know and then we intellectualize too much.

00:47:06.000 What was it that pushed you to actually go to a hospital and talk to a psychiatrist?

00:47:13.000 And my sister had a friend who was getting this outpatient therapy at Mount Sinai Hospital.

00:47:19.000 And I was like, I heard, and I went, really?

00:47:23.000 You pay $3 and you see somebody and you talk?

00:47:27.000 And I had no idea what therapy was all about.

00:47:29.000 I thought somebody sits in a room and tells you how to live your life.

00:47:32.000 And I took a bus to the subway, took a few subways, and walked in there and...

00:47:40.000 I knew I needed more than what I had, although I didn't know what it was that I needed.

00:47:47.000 But that was part of the search.

00:47:52.000 So is that what you would call depression?

00:47:54.000 I mean, what would you call it?

00:47:56.000 You know, being born with any kind of difference, any kind of facial difference, deformity or whatever, makes you incredibly not only vulnerable, but you're exposed to a point of...

00:48:10.000 Never being able to hide.

00:48:12.000 If you put on some ridiculous shirt with a monkey holding dumbbells or something... 0.97

00:48:18.000 Yeah, kettlebells. 0.98

00:48:18.000 Kettlebells. 0.98

00:48:20.000 If you put on a shirt that everybody starts laughing at, you go home and change.

00:48:26.000 But if you have a facial difference or you have something that sets you apart, you can never go home and change.

00:48:31.000 So the scrutiny that you're under is unbearable.

00:48:35.000 So that's something I went through from the time I was...

00:48:40.000 Preschool.

00:48:41.000 And you start to build up defenses.

00:48:44.000 And at some point, you don't even know who you once were.

00:48:50.000 So that's what it was all born out of.

00:48:52.000 And I'm not the person who lives with a toothache.

00:48:57.000 I'm the person who goes and gets the root canal.

00:48:59.000 I don't want to suffer.

00:49:02.000 I want to dig and go through what's ever ugly and work it out.

00:49:10.000 That's really what my whole life's been about.

00:49:14.000 I couldn't have written my book if I'm still in the midst of that depression and insecurity and unhappiness and unfulfilled.

00:49:24.000 I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me.

00:49:26.000 I've had spectacular women. 1.00

00:49:29.000 I've had more great times than anybody could ever imagine.

00:49:34.000 They were transitory, but they were spectacular.

00:49:39.000 But happiness ultimately comes from the most simple things.

00:49:44.000 Interaction with people, great friends, family, and inner contentment.

00:49:50.000 When you step off the stage, you leave that crowd.

00:49:54.000 Look, I did shows at Madison Square Garden, and you may have been at one of them.

00:49:58.000 Where I would walk off stage after 18,000 people went crazy and I went to a deli by myself and went, nobody would fucking believe I'm here by myself and I just stepped off this stage.

00:50:11.000 So there's a huge chasm between who you are in the public and who you are off stage.

00:50:20.000 And the person off stage is the person you have to live with.

00:50:24.000 And managing that bizarre dichotomy, the sensory input, must be very strange, too.

00:50:30.000 Going from one to the other.

00:50:31.000 Incredible extremes.

00:50:32.000 It's a huge struggle, and it takes a lot of people down.

00:50:35.000 And no one can tell you how to do it, either.

00:50:37.000 No one else knows.

00:50:38.000 No, Paul, you're going to be fine. 1.00

00:50:40.000 Like, what the fuck are you talking about? 0.99

00:50:41.000 And it's the same thing. 0.99

00:50:43.000 I can't give anybody advice.

00:50:44.000 I can tell you what I did.

00:50:49.000 But that it's going to work for you is beyond presumptuous. 1.00

00:50:52.000 It's idiotic for me to... 0.99

00:50:54.000 I never spent a day, a week... 1.00

00:50:58.000 I've never spent a minute in your shoes.

00:51:00.000 I have no idea what your life is like.

00:51:03.000 So my advice...

00:51:06.000 I can't say, do it this way.

00:51:09.000 You have to figure it out.

00:51:11.000 Well, I think better than advice, what you've done is, in your book, explaining with extreme honesty how you felt about those situations, how you felt as a young man growing up with this situation with your ear.

00:51:25.000 You give people insight into someone who, you know, a lot of people who look at you and they go, this guy's never had a hard day in his life. 0.98

00:51:32.000 He's fucking Paul Stanley, man. 0.97

00:51:34.000 Like, look at him up there. 1.00

00:51:35.000 I mean, come on. 1.00

00:51:37.000 He's the lead singer of fucking Kiss. 1.00

00:51:39.000 Come on and love me. 0.99

00:51:40.000 Yeah, and the great thing.

00:51:42.000 Very good.

00:51:45.000 Come on, man.

00:51:45.000 How could you be sad?

00:51:47.000 How could it be bad?

00:51:48.000 But how great a feeling to be able to say to people, you know something?

00:51:53.000 I'm not that different than you are.

00:51:55.000 But you're not.

00:51:56.000 You really are.

00:51:56.000 And I'm really not.

00:51:57.000 That is the key, right?

00:51:58.000 I think so.

00:51:59.000 I think separating yourself from people or not sharing with them how much you are like them does a disservice to both.

00:52:09.000 You know, look...

00:52:11.000 I make the analogy, you know, you can live your life like that.

00:52:15.000 Sure, it protects you, but you get nothing.

00:52:20.000 You know, you can hit people and push them away, but it's not until you're willing to open up your hand.

00:52:26.000 Giving becomes its own reward, whether you're giving to people with support or inspiration or you're giving people monetarily.

00:52:35.000 Charity or a charitable spirit is ultimately the most rewarding, you know, one of the most rewarding things I've ever been able to experience is giving and helping others.

00:52:46.000 Giving till it feels good.

00:52:47.000 Yeah.

00:52:47.000 Like you said.

00:52:48.000 Yeah.

00:52:49.000 Yeah, I agree with that.

00:52:50.000 I think being generous is a very underrated activity.

00:52:54.000 And until you do it.

00:52:56.000 And quite honestly, when it was explained to me, it seemed ridiculous.

00:53:02.000 But when you stop judging other people and you accept, look, it's very easy to look at some guy panhandling on the street and say, why don't you go get a job?

00:53:13.000 You have no idea what that person is living or what nightmare he goes through or she goes through every day.

00:53:21.000 Would giving them some money or giving them some food really change your life any?

00:53:27.000 Maybe it'll help them.

00:53:28.000 But what do you have to lose?

00:53:31.000 It should feel good to do that instead of kicking somebody who's down.

00:53:35.000 It's a small person who tries to make someone else feel smaller.

00:53:39.000 Well, you've done a great job in your book of...

00:53:43.000 Being vulnerable and very open and in a way that a lot of people fail when it comes to autobiographies.

00:53:51.000 Autobiographies are very tricky animals. 0.94

00:53:53.000 George Orwell said that the autobiography is the most outrageous form of fiction.

00:53:58.000 And that's probably why I never wanted to write one, because to just bolster yourself up or to have bragging rights about something that may not have even happened is pointless.

00:54:11.000 For me, the epiphany came when I realized that I could write a book that my children would benefit from when they were old enough.

00:54:20.000 I have a 20-year-old and a 3-year-old.

00:54:23.000 So, my 20 year olds read it and I think it's important for when you're successful for your children to know what it took for you to become successful and that it perhaps wasn't as easy and that the road wasn't as smooth.

00:54:39.000 So, my whole reason to write My story started there, but then it started to snowball in the sense that I began to realize that there's a lot of people out there who could use some inspiration and also some insight because we all tend to think of ourselves as singular and nobody's like us. 0.82

00:55:02.000 Boy, I'm fucked up and nobody else, you know, goes through this.

00:55:05.000 And when somebody else says, hey, I'm afraid of this or I'm afraid of that. 0.99

00:55:11.000 Oh, you are too?

00:55:13.000 We feel much more secure and bonded when we share what we have in common.

00:55:22.000 Yeah, without a doubt.

00:55:23.000 Without a doubt.

00:55:24.000 And I think that, like I said, I think you've done a great service by being so open in a very difficult way.

00:55:30.000 And it's very rare for rock stars, especially, to open themselves up and be vulnerable. 0.98

00:55:35.000 If they do, it's always about some shit they don't do anymore. 0.97

00:55:38.000 Like, oh, I was doing fucking heroin, and I was shooting up right before I got on stage. 0.97

00:55:42.000 But I'm done with that now. 0.98

00:55:43.000 I've been clean for a couple hours, and I wrote a book.

00:55:46.000 Look, everybody has their path, and I would never trivialize addiction because addiction is well documented.

00:55:55.000 It's a disease that some of us are predisposed to.

00:56:01.000 And those people, I say, look, if you are predisposed to that and if it runs in your family, get help before you get into addiction.

00:56:10.000 Before you get into the alcohol, if you feel that urge, much better to start controlling it before you immerse yourself in it.

00:56:20.000 You know, look, I'm a rock star.

00:56:24.000 I'm a musician, whatever you want to call it.

00:56:26.000 But I'm a person.

00:56:28.000 I'm a dad.

00:56:29.000 I'm a husband.

00:56:30.000 So, I don't...

00:56:32.000 How I live my life should...

00:56:35.000 How anybody lives their life should not be dictated by their profession.

00:56:40.000 So, oh, you know, this is a great book because rock stars don't...

00:56:43.000 I go, you know, I'm a rock star...

00:56:48.000 Maybe two hours a night when I'm on tour.

00:56:52.000 You have to have a real life, a complete life.

00:56:55.000 Otherwise, you're shortchanging yourself and probably shortchanging other people.

00:57:01.000 I know a lot of people, particularly in bands or film actors, who don't want to go home.

00:57:10.000 I get it.

00:57:11.000 They don't want to go home because they have nothing.

00:57:14.000 They either don't have family or they don't have something that satisfies them and makes them feel whole.

00:57:21.000 And I think what we all owe ourselves, I certainly think so, is to go out and find what you need to feel contentment without the approval of the masses.

00:57:34.000 I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I think that a lot of rock stars, a lot of actors, they want to portray an image, and that image is very valuable to them.

00:57:44.000 They want to, what they call, protect their brand.

00:57:46.000 And by divulging any past insecurities, or by showing any chinks in their armor emotionally, they feel like, you know, somehow or another this will be either used against them, or it'll diminish the publication. 0.74

00:57:57.000 Well, it's the Wizard of Oz.

00:57:58.000 Perception becomes reality.

00:58:00.000 And if you put something out there and people buy it, That's who you are.

00:58:00.000 Yes.

00:58:05.000 However, the problem with it is that other people will see you as what you've put out there, but you know you're not.

00:58:13.000 That's a real heavy cross to bear. 0.98

00:58:17.000 To accomplish what you set out for and have the public perceive you to be something amazing and still you feel like crap. 0.63

00:58:30.000 I recommend figure out what you need to feel good about yourself because you're going to need that constant fix of people telling you you're great and the moment it stops, you ain't great.

00:58:44.000 I've never had a problem with depression but I've had a lot of friends who have and so I've always wondered what is the cause, whether it's circumstantial, whether it's the experiences that they have in their life, whether it's genetic, whether it's a combination of both.

00:59:00.000 For you, when you started to get over this, like when you're 19, how old were you when you went to the Sea of Sinai?

00:59:07.000 I started therapy when I was probably 16. 16. So you're 16, you go into this doctor's office.

00:59:14.000 How long was it?

00:59:15.000 Because this is before.

00:59:17.000 How old were you when you guys hit it big?

00:59:20.000 20, let's see, 21, maybe 22, something like that. 0.99

00:59:25.000 God damn, that's young. 0.99

00:59:26.000 It is. 1.00

00:59:27.000 Jesus Christ.

00:59:28.000 That must have been nuts.

00:59:30.000 Yeah, it's like getting the keys to the candy store and eating lots of candy. 1.00

00:59:34.000 No, it's getting the keys to the fucking factory. 1.00

00:59:36.000 Yes. 1.00

00:59:37.000 You can make your own candy.

00:59:38.000 Make your own candy.

00:59:39.000 Say, hey, why don't you put some more sprinkles in this? 1.00

00:59:42.000 All right, Paul.

00:59:42.000 What do you want, man?

00:59:43.000 Yeah, what do you want?

00:59:44.000 Sprinkles in the shape of a star.

00:59:45.000 Let's do it.

00:59:48.000 So depression...

00:59:51.000 I needed a lifeline, and that's what therapy was for me.

00:59:55.000 I don't know that it changed my life initially, but it changed...

00:59:58.000 Look, if you go work out, when you first start working out, you don't see results immediately, but you have the hope, and the hope is what drives you, is the desire in knowing that if I do this...

01:00:12.000 The end product will be satisfying.

01:00:15.000 So therapy is no different.

01:00:18.000 Therapy, like everything else, it's not an immediate gratification or immediate solution, but it gives you the knowledge that you're on a path.

01:00:31.000 I'm doing something about this.

01:00:33.000 I'm working towards a goal.

01:00:35.000 I want to lose that stomach.

01:00:36.000 I want to do 10 more reps, whatever it is.

01:00:41.000 So that's what it was for me.

01:00:43.000 And then I stopped for a while.

01:00:46.000 And when the band started to make it, I called a psychiatrist and said, I need...

01:00:53.000 This ride is about to begin, and I'm going up on the roller coaster, and there's no getting off now, and I need something to hold on to.

01:01:03.000 What was your main concern?

01:01:10.000 That's a tough one.

01:01:13.000 Well, the pitfalls of success and the vices are all tied up with, once again, insecurities.

01:01:23.000 So either you're numbing yourself or you're participating in drugs because it's cool or You know, there's all kinds of poisons out there,

01:01:39.000 and when they're available, it's kind of hard to say no.

01:01:45.000 It's kind of hard to say no.

01:01:47.000 I just thought I'd go off the rails a bit.

01:01:51.000 Not a bit.

01:01:52.000 I was thinking, this is a recipe for disaster. 0.97

01:01:57.000 It's amazing that you had that kind of insight as a young man, experiencing fame, especially with your background, your childhood, being bullied and feeling insecure, and then all of a sudden it's all coming at you and you're like, whoa, I don't think my fucking surfboard can handle this wave. 0.97

01:02:11.000 That's right.

01:02:11.000 And that's actually what it was.

01:02:14.000 It was like, whoa, I am not equipped for this.

01:02:18.000 I want this, and I've worked my ass off to get it, but wow, now it's in front of me. 0.73

01:02:24.000 That's a big ass wave.

01:02:27.000 So yeah, I paddled out against the current, and then I had to ride the wave.

01:02:33.000 I just find it very admirable that you were able to see that so early and so young.

01:02:39.000 That's a very rare quality.

01:02:43.000 So I hear.

01:02:44.000 So I hear.

01:02:45.000 But that being said, the great thing is I've talked to other kids.

01:02:53.000 I've talked to kids with facial problems.

01:02:55.000 I've talked to their parents.

01:02:57.000 And that's something that's cathartic.

01:03:00.000 That's something that's great for me because once I started sharing my issues and the struggles that I had, I could see that I was lightening the load for somebody else.

01:03:13.000 It's very easy for parents to say, oh, you're just like everybody else.

01:03:17.000 I think most of that comes out of guilt.

01:03:19.000 I think most of that comes out of, you want to believe that because you feel terrible for your child, but your child doesn't need to hear that.

01:03:25.000 Your child needs to hear Yeah, life is tougher for you.

01:03:31.000 I'll sit down with a kid and say, I don't know what you've heard, but life is tougher for you.

01:03:37.000 But it can have a happy ending.

01:03:39.000 But it won't be as easy as it is.

01:03:41.000 The playing field's not level for everybody.

01:03:44.000 And yeah, yours is going to be a harder path to go.

01:03:49.000 And I try to sit with parents and say, listen, your kid's not looking for a solution from you when he tells you what's bothering him.

01:03:56.000 He's looking to be validated.

01:03:57.000 He just wants to be heard.

01:03:59.000 And if you minimize what he's saying, how often do you think he's going to talk to you or she's going to talk to you?

01:04:05.000 So it's a great sense of...

01:04:12.000 Satisfaction of being able to go out there and give something back.

01:04:19.000 It's really one of the greatest gifts of my life, is being at a point now where I can give back and feel like I'm doing something other than making people happy with music.

01:04:33.000 And make an impact not just one-on-one, but you could reach millions.

01:04:36.000 Yeah.

01:04:38.000 Obviously, this book, Face the Music, seems to have resonated with people because it's not being looked at as another one of those rock and roll autobiographies, which honestly really should be on a roll of tissue paper,

01:04:54.000 so you could use it for something more appropriate.

01:04:58.000 But, you know, it seems to resonate with people, and the word I hear from people is that they're inspired by it.

01:05:04.000 And, you know, my journey is not that different than somebody else's, and maybe it makes it easier knowing that somebody who you look up to is on the same path.

01:05:15.000 Unquestionably, it makes it easier.

01:05:16.000 Did you ever go off the rails at all?

01:05:18.000 Did you ever have a moment where you indulged in drugs or alcohol or anything crazy?

01:05:23.000 No, I mean, drinking was always...

01:05:29.000 Life's too short to drink bad wine, you know, and one of the great things is to be able to afford good wine.

01:05:35.000 So, but my early days, yeah, I drank and drugs, little, you know, a little dabbling, but it was different back then because people...

01:05:46.000 People didn't see the correlation between certain drugs and working your way to other drugs.

01:05:53.000 And look, I saw in my neighborhood, kids were doing acid and getting, you know, put in the booby hatch.

01:06:00.000 You know, people were getting committed.

01:06:02.000 The booby hatch?

01:06:03.000 I haven't heard that in a long time.

01:06:05.000 Well, you know, I'm a little older than you.

01:06:07.000 The boobie hatch.

01:06:08.000 The boobie hatch.

01:06:10.000 In the nuthouse.

01:06:12.000 So I stayed away from...

01:06:14.000 Even then I said, well, acid for me, that's like a one-way trip.

01:06:18.000 I know I buy that ticket.

01:06:19.000 I'm not coming back.

01:06:20.000 So there were certain things I didn't do. 0.56

01:06:23.000 My indulgence was always sex.

01:06:26.000 And that was a good one. 0.89

01:06:30.000 That was pretty awesome.

01:06:33.000 So how does a psychiatrist or a psychologist, whichever one it is, how does someone help a guy like you?

01:06:40.000 Because I would think that you would have to have some sort of perspective.

01:06:43.000 Like if a person is, if I come to a psychiatrist and say, hey man, I'm an insurance salesman, and I don't know what it is, but I'm miserable, I can't find any happiness in my life, and this is what I'm doing, I'm self-sabotaging, this is what I'm doing wrong. 0.69

01:06:55.000 But when someone comes to a psychiatrist or a psychologist and says, Hey, I'm the lead singer of one of the biggest fucking bands in the world.

01:07:06.000 The hottest band in the world! 0.97

01:07:07.000 Yes!

01:07:09.000 You show up.

01:07:11.000 What are they going to say?

01:07:12.000 What can they tell you? 1.00

01:07:14.000 Hey, you fucking... 1.00

01:07:16.000 I saw that chick you were with. 1.00

01:07:17.000 She's hot. 1.00

01:07:18.000 You're doing great, man.

01:07:20.000 Jesus Christ, I drove by your house the other day. 1.00

01:07:22.000 Holy shit, you live in a castle. 1.00

01:07:24.000 What are you complaining about? 1.00

01:07:25.000 What are you, a whiner? 0.99

01:07:27.000 Get out of here.

01:07:30.000 Honestly, I think the truth is always the truth and the foundation for an insurance salesman is no different than the foundation for any rock star or what have you.

01:07:42.000 I think having a strong sense of self and having a good sense of what the world is and isn't.

01:07:53.000 I think a lot of times Part of what makes us feel so in doubt is our misconceptions of what other people are thinking or what other people are going through.

01:08:04.000 Again, it goes back to, I'm not normal.

01:08:07.000 I have all these fears and doubts, and they don't.

01:08:11.000 So a lot of times I think we need to have our perspective integrated so that we understand that we're not that different than other people and also whatever issues we have, we get to talk about and somebody kind of helps us reflect and points us in the right direction.

01:08:33.000 Look, I first walked into a therapist thinking they were going to say, okay, here's what you do and you'll be fine.

01:08:41.000 And there's none of that.

01:08:43.000 It's mainly, I call it the best conversation in town.

01:08:48.000 You talk and somebody throws something back at you and asks you a question about something.

01:08:53.000 So it's really you teaching yourself.

01:08:55.000 But it's not something you can do on your own.

01:08:57.000 I mean, you can't read a self-help book and change your life.

01:09:00.000 I'm sorry.

01:09:01.000 Really?

01:09:02.000 You don't think so?

01:09:03.000 Except face the music.

01:09:06.000 That can change your life.

01:09:08.000 You don't think that people can read a self-help book and be inspired and maybe perhaps change the direction even slightly?

01:09:14.000 Yes.

01:09:15.000 And I think that, if anything, it should make you aware that maybe there's someone out there or something out there that can take you the next step.

01:09:26.000 I think a book can open your eyes.

01:09:29.000 I think a book can inspire you.

01:09:35.000 If it's a metaphor for anything else, I think we all need somebody else.

01:09:40.000 We all need somebody else's hand.

01:09:41.000 So when you were 16 and you first started going to this guy or gal, whoever it was, and you sat down and you start going over your life, how do they sort of mold you into a happier person or give you the tools to mold yourself into a happier person?

01:09:56.000 That's a good question.

01:09:58.000 I don't really remember.

01:10:00.000 I think it was more, like I said before, it's just a lifeline, just a dialogue.

01:10:08.000 I don't think primal therapy, primal scream therapy is a great analogy, but I think it's all about...

01:10:16.000 Purging.

01:10:16.000 I think it's all about talking and getting things out and having somebody help you to understand or pose questions to you.

01:10:30.000 I think it's really about talking.

01:10:34.000 What did Freud call it?

01:10:36.000 The talking cure.

01:10:38.000 In talking, just the process of going over these ideas with someone who gives you a different perspective or gives you...

01:10:46.000 We show up every week and it's kind of like, what did you do this week?

01:10:49.000 And you can talk about things and talk about relationships or what somebody you're going out with said and how you responded or what you think.

01:10:59.000 And somebody could pose a question or ask you, what do you think?

01:11:04.000 It's really just a great conversation where somebody is leading you, perhaps, to look at things a little differently.

01:11:12.000 And maybe it changes the wiring.

01:11:15.000 over a period of time Well, I've got to imagine that the wiring gets screwed up because of negative input.

01:11:21.000 Totally.

01:11:22.000 Totally.

01:11:22.000 So it's almost like, I really believe, in my case and a lot of people's, it's like learning to walk again.

01:11:30.000 You can't run before you walk.

01:11:33.000 You can't get on with your life until the basics are in place.

01:11:36.000 And if the basics were misconstructed when you were a child, an infant, a toddler, whatever, then you can never build a structure.

01:11:47.000 You've got to go back down and rebuild.

01:11:50.000 So I think that's what therapy does.

01:11:54.000 It may deal with what is going on in the present, but ultimately it's got to get to the core because you can't change things unless you change the wiring.

01:12:09.000 The most simplistic wiring is what's responsible for what comes later.

01:12:14.000 Wow.

01:12:15.000 Welcome to Psychology Today.

01:12:18.000 It's important to talk about, man.

01:12:20.000 It's very rare that someone ever gets a chance to hear a guy like you discuss this stuff so openly and bravely and honestly.

01:12:28.000 Interestingly, I don't think it's brave.

01:12:34.000 I don't think it's brave because the people who don't talk about it I haven't come to terms with it and maybe haven't rewired,

01:12:49.000 fixed themselves, come to grips with things in their life.

01:12:52.000 To me, it's just, it's reality and there's no vulnerability attached to it.

01:12:59.000 I think when you're still in the midst of it, you don't want to divulge certain things because it's not only inappropriate, but it can come back to be used against you.

01:13:09.000 Once you start sharing your vulnerabilities and you're still vulnerable, then people can use them.

01:13:15.000 I'm really talking about the past.

01:13:19.000 And that's safe and actually in some ways probably cathartic, therapeutic.

01:13:25.000 But for somebody to...

01:13:27.000 It would be inappropriate for somebody who's got certain...

01:13:32.000 Problems, neuroses, whatever you want to call them, for them to divulge them and then have somebody use them against them.

01:13:39.000 I'm not in that position anymore.

01:13:41.000 I'm talking about a journey that got me to this place in my life now, which is a great place.

01:13:50.000 And I always felt that if somebody uses them against you, if you share something with someone that uses it against you, then you know what kind of person that is.

01:13:56.000 Right, but that's a tough lesson to learn, and why put yourself in that position?

01:14:01.000 Yeah, without a doubt.

01:14:03.000 When you started taking off, and you realized, like, okay, this is all, we're on the roller coaster, click, click, click, click, click.

01:14:10.000 Did you start bringing a psychiatrist on the road with you?

01:14:12.000 Oh, God, no.

01:14:13.000 So how long would you go on the road for?

01:14:13.000 No?

01:14:13.000 No.

01:14:18.000 Yeah.

01:14:33.000 No, I mean, it doesn't need to consume you.

01:14:38.000 And a therapist isn't a Svengali.

01:14:41.000 They're not a puppet master.

01:14:43.000 But in an appropriate time in your life, go as often as you feel you need to.

01:14:51.000 The issue would be if you did that your whole life, that would probably say to me that you're not making a whole lot of progress.

01:14:58.000 And I would say a therapist is no different than anyone else.

01:15:03.000 There's brain surgeons, there's neurosurgeons, and there's brilliant neurosurgeons.

01:15:10.000 But then again, it's also a matter of what works with you.

01:15:13.000 If you have some sort of synchronicity, simpatico, whatever you want to call it with somebody, you'll get much farther.

01:15:20.000 And if you don't find yourself getting somewhere, then maybe you need to move on.

01:15:25.000 I had a very biased idea of therapy when I was younger because I worked with actors, and they were so self-indulgent. 0.90

01:15:32.000 When they were talking about their therapy, I'm like, this is just giving you another fucking opportunity to talk about yourself. 0.93

01:15:37.000 That's what this is. 0.97

01:15:37.000 Well, yeah. 0.97

01:15:38.000 Actors are very funny, and I have to say that at one point in my life, I decided that musicians were just...

01:15:48.000 A lot of them are very, very narrow in their pursuits outside of music.

01:15:55.000 And I found that really, really boring to get together and all somebody wants to talk about is like guitars or something.

01:16:02.000 So I said, I'm going to hang out with actors.

01:16:05.000 And I started hanging out.

01:16:07.000 A friend of mine owned a bar in New York and I... I was there every night and became friends with a whole lot of people.

01:16:15.000 And I found out, my gosh, these people only want to listen to me talk so they get their turn.

01:16:21.000 And they just want to talk about themselves.

01:16:23.000 And that's not a generalization.

01:16:27.000 That's just my experience.

01:16:29.000 Because I don't want everybody calling me up and saying, Are you talking about me?

01:16:33.000 No, I'm not talking about you.

01:16:34.000 But there are certainly a lot of people in the performance field who love the spotlight and tolerate you speaking so that they get their chance.

01:16:48.000 Yeah, going from musicians to actors looking for depth is like going from a pool to the ocean looking for wetter water.

01:16:56.000 Yeah.

01:16:58.000 You know, I remember going to a party at...

01:17:05.000 Lee Strasberg's house, who's arguably one of the gurus of method acting.

01:17:16.000 And all the famous people were there, and we were all in the living room.

01:17:19.000 And they all seemed so unhappy.

01:17:21.000 I was thinking, I want to create from joy.

01:17:26.000 I don't want to create from misery.

01:17:28.000 And, you know, it's like I wanted to have an umbrella.

01:17:32.000 I wanted an umbrella because it seemed to be raining in this place.

01:17:34.000 But I know certainly there are a lot of people in different fields of the art who feel that their creativity is based on their being unhappy or their, you know, discontent.

01:17:48.000 I don't want to paint from there.

01:17:51.000 I don't want to sing from there.

01:17:53.000 I think it's a trap.

01:17:54.000 We've experienced the same thing with stand-up comedians.

01:17:57.000 A lot of stand-up comedians almost believe that you have to be miserable outside of being on stage in order to create, and that your reward for being miserable is that when you're killing, when you're on stage and everybody's dying laughing, this is what you get to experience that other people don't, so that when you're not doing this, 1.00

01:18:14.000 you're a miserable fuck. 1.00

01:18:15.000 You're supposed to be running around frumpy and scrumpled. 1.00

01:18:18.000 Yeah, you know better than I do, but I've certainly met my share of miserable comedians. 0.93

01:18:22.000 I've met a lot.

01:18:24.000 I think that's changing a bit.

01:18:26.000 People are becoming more aware of the fact that there's no individual singular path to any creative endeavor, whether it's music or whether it's painting.

01:18:36.000 There's a lot of different ways to do it, and you could be really good at it without being miserable.

01:18:41.000 Yeah, there are people, and I certainly experience people who are afraid to be happy because it will affect their creativity.

01:18:48.000 And I gotta tell you, you know, happiness is probably the best additive to creativity.

01:18:58.000 When I was young, this is how stupid I was, when I first started doing stand-up comedy, I actually stopped meditating because I was worried. 0.89

01:19:05.000 I was like, if I become too calm and if I achieve any sort of enlightenment, this will fuck up my subject matter. 0.97

01:19:12.000 Because part of being a stand-up comedian is about kind of being rude or at least being shocking in a way.

01:19:17.000 At least I thought that.

01:19:18.000 I was like, I can't be meditating.

01:19:21.000 I can't be going to yoga.

01:19:22.000 I gotta get this out of my head.

01:19:24.000 Yeah, but that sharpness and peace of mind and contentment that can come from yoga therapy, a happy home life, whatever, is something that can really enhance whatever your creative outlet is.

01:19:39.000 And it's just always interesting to see people who are afraid to be happy.

01:19:45.000 Yeah, there's many engines of motivation.

01:19:49.000 They don't always necessarily have to be negative.

01:19:51.000 And that's why I was curious about your approach, because you were coming from this place of negativity, but you figured out how to channel it into a positive perspective.

01:20:04.000 Yeah, but what was I singing about?

01:20:05.000 I was singing about...

01:20:07.000 Getting laid.

01:20:08.000 I was singing about partying.

01:20:09.000 And that was terrific.

01:20:12.000 What was lacking was some of the other inner skills.

01:20:20.000 But I sang about...

01:20:24.000 Nobody was interested in...

01:20:26.000 I mean, what do you want to hear songs about?

01:20:27.000 Me being miserable?

01:20:29.000 Yeah.

01:20:30.000 That's the day, man.

01:20:31.000 Yeah.

01:20:31.000 I was having a grand old time and reveling in...

01:20:36.000 In everything I had.

01:20:38.000 I grew up wanting a Playboy Playmate.

01:20:44.000 I got all that stuff, and it was terrific.

01:20:47.000 The great thing about having things is it gives you a chance to see whether you really want it.

01:20:54.000 And that's pretty cool.

01:20:56.000 People spend their lives sometimes chasing things that they never get.

01:21:00.000 I've been very fortunate.

01:21:01.000 I've pretty much gotten everything I chased.

01:21:04.000 And some of it, it was all worth having, but it wasn't all worth keeping.

01:21:10.000 So what you thought it would be before you got there was different.

01:21:14.000 Sometimes I thought that certain things would be the solution.

01:21:18.000 Like a Playboy Playmate?

01:21:19.000 Yeah, I mean, for Thursday it was a solution.

01:21:25.000 But, you know, look, again...

01:21:29.000 My life's been awesome.

01:21:30.000 Awesome.

01:21:31.000 And it got me to here.

01:21:34.000 And when you hear poor me, when you hear people talking, poor me, it's so lonely.

01:21:42.000 My life's been great.

01:21:44.000 And it's all led me to where I am now.

01:21:46.000 And I have nothing but great memories and no regrets.

01:21:52.000 So you don't have to go to therapy at all anymore?

01:21:53.000 You don't do any of that?

01:21:54.000 I go sometimes once.

01:21:57.000 If I can, I go once a week.

01:21:59.000 Yeah.

01:21:59.000 Once a week?

01:22:00.000 As I said, to me, it's not laying on a couch and trying to figure out minutiae.

01:22:08.000 It's really a great...

01:22:10.000 If you have a great therapist, it's a great conversation.

01:22:12.000 Literally, hey, here's what I did.

01:22:15.000 I did this this week.

01:22:18.000 I call it life school.

01:22:21.000 It's just kind of...

01:22:24.000 I don't expect somebody else to be able to tell me what the answer is.

01:22:29.000 They probably don't have the answer for them.

01:22:32.000 When we put therapists or doctors, when we put anybody on a pedestal, we're on dangerous ground.

01:22:39.000 These are just people.

01:22:40.000 They have their own issues.

01:22:42.000 They may be great at helping you, but it doesn't mean that they have the answer for them.

01:22:47.000 We're all out there trying to figure it out.

01:22:50.000 Them too.

01:22:52.000 Yeah, even like the Dalai Lama. 0.59

01:22:55.000 I mean, the Dalai Lama doesn't have sex.

01:22:57.000 And he only wears orange.

01:23:00.000 Okay.

01:23:02.000 Does he have a swollen hand or anything?

01:23:04.000 Nope.

01:23:04.000 No?

01:23:05.000 Nope.

01:23:05.000 He believes it's too complicated.

01:23:07.000 I can simplify it.

01:23:10.000 Can you hook him up?

01:23:11.000 Yeah, it's much simpler than he thinks.

01:23:14.000 That's the problem.

01:23:15.000 Yeah, I've always found issues with people that choose this monastic lifestyle, seeing that that's like the most simple path. 0.99

01:23:23.000 But you're missing out on some of the most beautiful joys of life because you believe that you can't handle relationships or you can't handle being a father or you can't handle the pursuit of art or whatever you're doing.

01:23:36.000 Well, you know, to take the other side of the coin, maybe they're right.

01:23:40.000 About them.

01:23:41.000 You know, it's like when somebody says, wow, you know, so-and-so is missing out by not having children.

01:23:46.000 I go, not really, because chances are they wouldn't get out of it what you're getting out of it.

01:23:51.000 So, you know, it's very easy to project, and it's called transference.

01:23:59.000 You know, it's very easy to imagine your feelings on somebody else or your life on somebody else.

01:24:05.000 It doesn't always go that way.

01:24:07.000 So if the Dalai Lama or anybody else is happy, you know, leading some sort of monastic life or being celibate or whatever, He thinks he's happy.

01:24:18.000 He's never been one of them Paul Stanley orgies, like on those album covers, one of those gigantic heart-shaped beds, and you've got 50 tens swarming you. 0.99

01:24:25.000 He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. 0.99

01:24:28.000 It's hard. 0.99

01:24:29.000 It's hard to be you. 1.00

01:24:30.000 He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. 0.99

01:24:31.000 Yeah, I've always been very conscious about not projecting that to other people when it comes to how much... 0.99

01:24:38.000 Children has changed me that you need to do it because I used to resent that when I was single and people talk to me about oh You need to get married and have kids but get the fuck out of here like no man kids change I'm better because of kids. 1.00

01:24:49.000 Yeah, you need to have kids in your life You need to fuck off. 0.99

01:24:52.000 Yeah, you know like I hate proselytizing so when people would do that I'm very conscious. 1.00

01:24:57.000 There's nothing worse than a reformed hooker, right? 1.00

01:25:01.000 Or a reformed alcoholic. 1.00

01:25:03.000 Those people are brutal too.

01:25:05.000 Go about your life and understand and realize that everybody has their own path and that what worked for you and is working for you may have absolutely no relevance to their life whatsoever.

01:25:16.000 You know, somebody a couple of days ago was saying to me, you know, again, so-and-so, when I see people that don't have kids, I really think they're missing out.

01:25:24.000 I go, they may be missing out on nothing because they're not equipped to have kids or they wouldn't get what you're getting out of it or what you're getting out of your relationship or your marriage.

01:25:33.000 Some people, you know, everybody just needs to find their own contentment, whether it's in an orange robe or underneath an orange robe with a blonde. 0.79

01:25:43.000 Yeah.

01:25:44.000 I just think it's hard for some folks to balance that perspective, to say, you know, they think of how much they love their children, how much they love their family, and they couldn't imagine being without it.

01:25:53.000 So they see someone, they say, well, you can't possibly be happy because you're not living my life.

01:25:56.000 Well, it goes a step further.

01:25:59.000 I always say to people, look, never think that when somebody tells you something, it means the same thing as if you said it.

01:26:05.000 If somebody says, I love you, Don't for a minute think that they define love the same way you do.

01:26:10.000 You need to say, what do you mean?

01:26:13.000 Because somebody will do something and you'll go, I thought you loved me.

01:26:16.000 And they go, I do love you.

01:26:20.000 My love means I'm allowed to steal from you.

01:26:23.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:26:25.000 File sharing.

01:26:27.000 Because it's all digital.

01:26:30.000 It's all zeros.

01:26:31.000 No, but it's so easy to – in relationships, you'll hear somebody say something, and you just take for granted, oh, they can mean something totally different.

01:26:43.000 It's always important to say to somebody, what do you mean?

01:26:46.000 What does that mean to you?

01:26:48.000 Yeah, the context of words, you know, just words by themselves.

01:26:51.000 You know, you really need, and also everyone has their own sort of internal definitions of things.

01:26:55.000 Like you have to kind of establish that when you get to know people and figure out whether or not you really want them in your life.

01:27:01.000 My life became so much simpler when I cut most people out of it.

01:27:06.000 Really, truly.

01:27:07.000 And I recommend it for everybody.

01:27:09.000 Toxic people.

01:27:10.000 They're real.

01:27:11.000 Yeah, nobody in my life that is there because I feel obligated.

01:27:15.000 Nobody is there because I have to have a business relationship with them.

01:27:20.000 There's nobody around me that I can't look in the eye and go, I want to be here.

01:27:24.000 So once you cut all that stuff out, life becomes much, much easier, you know?

01:27:30.000 Yeah.

01:27:31.000 And if someone cuts you out, maybe you need to step back and go, hey, maybe I'm a douche.

01:27:37.000 Maybe I need to look at myself a little bit better.

01:27:39.000 This guy decided I was toxic. 1.00

01:27:41.000 Yeah, you know, and it's also great to be with somebody who you respect who can tell you when you're being an idiot, you know? 1.00

01:27:50.000 Yes, huge, yeah. 1.00

01:27:51.000 Trying to be able to take the hits.

01:27:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:27:54.000 The greatest advances often come from the lowest lows, like to realize, like, okay, this is a complete failure.

01:28:03.000 Let's put the pieces back together again and figure out why I failed and then move forward.

01:28:08.000 You can't really relate to that because you became a rock star when you were 21. The person who succeeds is the one who continued after they failed.

01:28:16.000 Yes.

01:28:17.000 And made the adjustments.

01:28:19.000 Everybody has dealt with failure, and the person who fails ultimately is the one who didn't continue on.

01:28:19.000 Yeah.

01:28:26.000 Well, that's why it's so fascinating to me and admirable that you were able to make these adjustments very early on.

01:28:34.000 Well, I certainly started early on.

01:28:36.000 And perhaps if I had known how long it would take to see those adjustments come to some sort of fruition, maybe I would have thought twice about it.

01:28:46.000 But...

01:28:48.000 It goes back to, you can't kid yourself.

01:28:50.000 You can kid everybody else around you, and you can say, I'm okay, and you can convince people that you're great or whatever you want, but you know the truth.

01:28:59.000 And you have to live with it.

01:29:01.000 So how did you make the transition?

01:29:03.000 You're obviously a very content, very happy person now.

01:29:06.000 How long did it take while this rockstar rollercoaster ride was going on before you really felt comfortable with it all?

01:29:18.000 Well, I was married before, and perhaps what marriage, like a bad marriage, can teach you, like anything else in life, it can teach you what you don't want, you know?

01:29:28.000 And I needed to go through a marriage that wasn't great and got a great son out of it and just continued on the path.

01:29:41.000 It's kind of like getting off the wrong exit, you know?

01:29:45.000 I saw some very interesting scenery and then I got back on the freeway.

01:29:53.000 It's been an ongoing path and I'd say the last 15-20 years have been like just better and better and better.

01:30:04.000 I met my wife that I'm with now.

01:30:08.000 I met Erin 13 years ago and without hesitation it's the best 13 years of my life.

01:30:15.000 You know, just incredible.

01:30:18.000 I didn't even know a relationship like this existed.

01:30:21.000 Wow.

01:30:22.000 Yeah, that's amazing.

01:30:24.000 That is really the key, isn't it?

01:30:27.000 It's like finding someone who you're compatible with.

01:30:30.000 Finding someone who, you know, it just fits.

01:30:35.000 Yeah, soulmate gets thrown around so much, and it's a term that's so abused.

01:30:39.000 I certainly used it in the past.

01:30:42.000 But when you get it right, it's pretty amazing stuff.

01:30:47.000 I mean, the peace of mind and the contentment that you have being with the right person is incredible.

01:30:57.000 I mean, I know beyond any doubt this is where I'll be for the rest of my life.

01:31:04.000 I hope hers, too.

01:31:06.000 But I know from where I'm at, I've got four amazing kids and an incredible wife, and everything else is...

01:31:18.000 Icing on the cake.

01:31:20.000 The rollercoaster ride of doing, you know, being in a rock and roll band and being some international superstar has got to make it very difficult to keep a relationship, too, because you're always focused on so many different things.

01:31:32.000 You've got the songs putting together, you're dealing with the inner complications of being in the band, you're touring, you're putting on albums, a lot of pressure and stress as well, right?

01:31:41.000 Yeah, but when you...

01:31:43.000 Certainly when I was younger, nothing warranted.

01:31:46.000 I had no qualms about, you know, my relationships were secondary.

01:31:52.000 I would tell somebody that, you know, I mean, my band comes first.

01:31:57.000 I bet that went over well.

01:31:59.000 Well, you know...

01:32:02.000 I didn't lose any sleep over it.

01:32:03.000 Isn't that the thing that always happens in bands?

01:32:05.000 A girl gets in there, whether it's a lead singer or a lead guitarist, has a wife who all of a sudden steps into the picture and she starts telling the other guys they have to shape up or do this.

01:32:17.000 What a nightmare.

01:32:18.000 What a nightmare.

01:32:19.000 That's the Valerie Bertinelli effect, right? 0.82

01:32:21.000 I can't speak for any other band, but what I've heard from some other bands or seen is that's a nightmare.

01:32:32.000 Look, we still don't let anybody into our dressing room.

01:32:38.000 That is sacred ground.

01:32:40.000 Even wives... 1.00

01:32:44.000 No, that's, you know, that's where we live.

01:32:47.000 You gotta have something that's either sacred or just belongs to the four of you or the five of you.

01:32:57.000 So, you know, our dressing room, our kids once in a while might come in, but everybody knows that's not for our families.

01:33:10.000 But your kids can come in.

01:33:12.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:33:13.000 Tell your wife, just drop the kids off and wait for them in the hallway. 1.00

01:33:16.000 Not on the door.

01:33:17.000 I'm going to show them how to pick a guitar.

01:33:19.000 Wow.

01:33:21.000 It's a weird ride.

01:33:23.000 I mean, no one else has...

01:33:25.000 I mean, unless you're talking to other rock stars, no one else has experienced the life that you've had.

01:33:31.000 It's true.

01:33:32.000 It's very true.

01:33:33.000 I mean, when you, politicians want to be rock stars.

01:33:37.000 Everybody wants to be a rock star.

01:33:39.000 Rock stars don't want to be, rock stars want to be rock stars.

01:33:41.000 The reason everybody wants to be it, it's as good as they say.

01:33:47.000 Trust me, it's awesome.

01:33:50.000 It doesn't have to kill you.

01:33:52.000 It doesn't have to scar you.

01:33:54.000 It's awesome.

01:33:55.000 And you guys have been through the full spectrum of success.

01:33:58.000 40 years.

01:33:59.000 Yeah, I mean, you were gigantic with the makeup.

01:34:02.000 And then, what made you take the makeup off?

01:34:04.000 What was that about?

01:34:06.000 Missteps.

01:34:07.000 You know, I think that, again, when...

01:34:12.000 When we booted Peter out of the band, we felt that Eric Carr, when he came in, needed another persona, so we did that.

01:34:23.000 I think between apathy and laziness that set in within the band, we became very fat and rich.

01:34:34.000 We forgot why we loved what we did and became more involved with trying to get approval from our peers or friends or We're good to go.

01:35:15.000 If we can't exist as a band without the makeup, and quite honestly, people had grown tired of it.

01:35:21.000 I think people weren't tired of the music, but they were listening with their eyes and didn't want to see us anymore.

01:35:29.000 They didn't want to see perhaps what we had become.

01:35:34.000 So I went, we need to take this chance, take this leap of faith, and take the makeup off, and we did.

01:35:43.000 And you can't compete with those four iconic images.

01:35:49.000 No matter what you do without it, it's always going to pale.

01:35:53.000 That being said, we were platinum from Lick It Up on.

01:35:59.000 But people talk about it, yeah, you know, that was like the downtime.

01:36:03.000 Well...

01:36:05.000 In a sense, yeah, because you pale next to kissing makeup.

01:36:12.000 But it got us through, let's see, it was probably 13 years probably without makeup.

01:36:22.000 And, you know, we honed our skills and also readdressed and recommitted ourselves to what we once were and worked our way back and sold a lot of albums.

01:36:36.000 But understandably, people think of them as the lean years.

01:36:40.000 Those lean years would make most bands fat.

01:36:43.000 Yeah, well, Lick It Up is still one of my all-time favorites.

01:36:46.000 But when you guys took the makeup off, what was that transition like?

01:36:50.000 To go from being a famous person who has almost a non-famous face to being a famous person that now everybody's like, oh!

01:37:01.000 I loved it.

01:37:02.000 I loved it.

01:37:03.000 I craved it.

01:37:05.000 It was awesome.

01:37:06.000 It was awesome to finally go, yes, it's me, it's me.

01:37:11.000 I loved it.

01:37:12.000 And it didn't change who I was on stage at all because I've never really been playing a part.

01:37:18.000 That's who I am.

01:37:20.000 So with or without makeup, I'm not looking in a mirror when I'm on stage.

01:37:24.000 I'm just being me.

01:37:25.000 So it didn't change.

01:37:27.000 It changed it for some of the other guys.

01:37:33.000 It gave us Lick It Up, Heaven's on Fire, a lot of really cool stuff.

01:37:38.000 Creatures of the Night, War Machine, I Love It Loud, a lot of...

01:37:42.000 Well, no.

01:37:43.000 Creatures of the Night, you had makeup on?

01:37:44.000 Yeah, that was the last...

01:37:45.000 That was 82?

01:37:46.000 Yeah, that was the last gasp.

01:37:47.000 I wanted that album without makeup, and we kind of...

01:37:50.000 Understandably, Gene was much more reluctant than I was, so Lick It Up was when we took it off.

01:37:57.000 And we were more in touch with ourselves.

01:38:01.000 So after 13 years, I remember thinking, if we're going to get back together with the other guys who I swore I would never do again, now's the time because I don't know if these guys are going to live that much longer.

01:38:14.000 Wow.

01:38:15.000 Well, I just don't know.

01:38:16.000 I don't know what they've been doing or...

01:38:21.000 You know, where they've been.

01:38:22.000 So it was 13 years with no Ace, no Peter.

01:38:25.000 I think it was actually longer.

01:38:29.000 Peter was 1979 and Ace was 82. Wow.

01:38:36.000 So, you know, we reached out to them and went through a whole lot of song and dance and a whole lot of dating, so to speak.

01:38:44.000 And, you know, ultimately did Kiss Unplugged and brought them out.

01:38:50.000 And then after that, we did a full-scale reunion, which was enormous.

01:38:55.000 And...

01:38:57.000 With two guys who were so grateful to be back.

01:39:00.000 You know, Peter was just a joy.

01:39:02.000 I'll never do that again.

01:39:04.000 You know, what I did, I'm so glad I'm back and I get a second chance.

01:39:08.000 And they were both terrific for about a week.

01:39:12.000 A week?

01:39:13.000 No, longer than that.

01:39:14.000 It seemed like a week.

01:39:15.000 It was by midway through the reunion tour, those cracks just started showing again.

01:39:22.000 And the same stuff started happening.

01:39:28.000 You know, it was impossible.

01:39:31.000 We did two more tours after that.

01:39:34.000 I think we did Psycho Circus, and those guys were barely on the albums.

01:39:39.000 And then we did the Farewell Tour.

01:39:42.000 And the Farewell Tour...

01:39:45.000 Honestly, I think we were so miserable, Gene and I were so miserable, we were kind of thrown in the towel.

01:39:52.000 And then by the end of the tour, I remember a guy, and I figured, we're done.

01:39:58.000 It's over.

01:39:59.000 There was a car wash, and one of the guys says to me, boy, I loved the farewell tour.

01:40:05.000 When are you doing the 35th anniversary tour?

01:40:07.000 And I went, you don't want us to be gone?

01:40:10.000 And I realized that really what the farewell tour was, was saying farewell to those guys again.

01:40:15.000 And I would never give up the makeup again, and I would never give up the band.

01:40:21.000 The stance of the band has always been that the band is bigger than the individuals.

01:40:26.000 And to suddenly have people who were sabotaging and compromising the band and the fans suddenly in charge to say the band was over was just not going to happen.

01:40:38.000 So it was a wake-up call for me.

01:40:40.000 So since then it's been, you know, just really just pretty amazing.

01:40:47.000 What's the difference between going back and putting the makeup on once people already know what your face looks like and, you know, not?

01:40:55.000 It's a different time in my life, a different person, and really terrific to be able to experience that kind of phenomenal success at a different point in my life where I appreciate it in a different way.

01:41:08.000 Most people don't get to do that, you know, to regain the championship and smell the roses or whatever when you're a little bit more equipped to appreciate it in a different way.

01:41:23.000 To real Kiss fans when you guys made that reunion tour and you got back together with Peter Criss and Ace Frehley.

01:41:30.000 Kevin James, you know Kevin James from King of Queens?

01:41:32.000 He's a good buddy of mine.

01:41:33.000 Huge fan.

01:41:34.000 Huge Kiss fan.

01:41:34.000 He and I went together.

01:41:36.000 We went two nights in a row.

01:41:37.000 We saw you guys in LA. And we were just going crazy because it was the whole band.

01:41:45.000 Everybody was together.

01:41:47.000 So it was so storybook initially.

01:41:50.000 Yeah.

01:41:51.000 Did you try to get those guys straight?

01:41:53.000 Sure.

01:41:54.000 Did you give them some Ibogaine, take them to the jungle?

01:41:57.000 You know, look, it's like...

01:42:01.000 I will try to save anybody who's drowning until they start pulling me under. 0.91

01:42:05.000 And then I gotta cut them loose. 0.84

01:42:06.000 You know, it was hopeless.

01:42:09.000 Is it booze?

01:42:09.000 Is it drugs?

01:42:10.000 Is it a combination?

01:42:11.000 Is it personalities?

01:42:12.000 I think it's just personalities and everything else exacerbates things.

01:42:16.000 But it starts with you and who you are.

01:42:20.000 The rest of it just takes it south.

01:42:23.000 So...

01:42:25.000 I just found myself in a position where there was no choice except to change things.

01:42:32.000 But look, all I can tell you is the band has never been better, never sounded better, never been more the band that I wanted to be because there are four people now who Truly love and respect the band and want to do what's best for the band and not what's best for them as individuals.

01:42:51.000 Everybody in the band will swallow their ego and their pride, me included, to do what's best for the band.

01:42:58.000 And that's a great, you know, we built something great on, once again, it goes back to foundation.

01:43:05.000 You can't build anything without a great foundation, whether it's your personality and your life or a band.

01:43:11.000 So we've got a great foundation, but what we've built on it is pretty terrific, pretty tremendous.

01:43:18.000 It's probably much more difficult to take something for granted when you came into the band as a fan of the band.

01:43:25.000 One guy 20 years, one guy 10 years.

01:43:27.000 You're talking about a 40-year-plus career.

01:43:29.000 Yeah.

01:43:30.000 Yeah, and honestly, they are tremendous contributors and great to be around, and we all socialize, which is something terrific.

01:43:42.000 The combustibility of that original band was perhaps what made it in the beginning, but made it inevitable that it would...

01:43:50.000 Combust you know it was it was so volatile.

01:43:53.000 I really hoped when we did the reunion that we could move forward and take the band and see it to the you know happily ever after but you know the Wizard of Oz it's just it's not it's not it's not that it's just not that way.

01:44:14.000 Well, even, you know, as you describe your own life, the change of your perception of the world was a slow, gradual thing with a conscious effort.

01:44:23.000 Without that conscious effort, change is virtually impossible. 0.86

01:44:26.000 And these guys just getting this second chance probably gave them a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of, you know, I'll never do it again, because they recognize, like, wow, holy shit, I'm in Kiss again. 0.77

01:44:36.000 Here we are. 0.78

01:44:37.000 We're doing it again.

01:44:38.000 We're back!

01:44:38.000 But ultimately...

01:44:41.000 If you're more concerned and driven or ruined by what someone else has rather than what you have, if you're more concerned with me making more money than you, which is just a given because I never left the band once or twice.

01:44:58.000 So that became a big issue once you guys...

01:45:00.000 Well, it surfaced, and it was only one of, you know, a lot of issues that once again came to the surface, but that was one that was not negotiable.

01:45:11.000 And did you think that it could have possibly even helped?

01:45:13.000 I mean, if you said, okay, listen, guys, we're back, we're the band, let's go 25% all around.

01:45:18.000 We...

01:45:20.000 That's a movie we already saw and it didn't work.

01:45:23.000 We did that the first time around and it didn't work.

01:45:26.000 And here we are 13 or 15 years later bringing two guys back in who are virtually broke and have no career into a band that has maintained platinum status.

01:45:41.000 And you don't come in as a partner or an equal.

01:45:45.000 You come in as someone who is Paid and salaried.

01:45:53.000 Now mind you, once again, when rejoining the band is making you a millionaire again, I wouldn't bring out any hankies to wipe my tears away.

01:46:07.000 They did very, very well.

01:46:09.000 They just didn't do as well as you and Gene.

01:46:12.000 And nor should they.

01:46:13.000 Yeah.

01:46:14.000 I see your point.

01:46:15.000 I see your point.

01:46:16.000 I could see how they could get bitter about it.

01:46:18.000 But once again, there was more to it than that.

01:46:21.000 And again, drugs and sycophantic relationships and overinflated ideas of who they were and what they could do, it just didn't work.

01:46:37.000 Well, it seems like with every band, there's always this ultimate conflict.

01:46:42.000 And one of the things that you guys have managed to do is whatever conflicts that you've had with Gene, you guys have managed to stay together.

01:46:48.000 Gene and I are so unlike each other.

01:46:52.000 I mean, completely unlike, you know, somebody was just saying that this morning.

01:46:57.000 But we're together for 45 years, I think, now.

01:47:02.000 That's insane.

01:47:03.000 That's from when I was two.

01:47:03.000 Yeah.

01:47:05.000 Yeah.

01:47:06.000 Yeah.

01:47:07.000 That's incredible.

01:47:08.000 Yeah, and we're together because we have a common bond, and we have something that we believe in, and we have a work ethic, and we put other stuff aside.

01:47:18.000 I mean, there's been times certainly where we weren't getting along very well at all or not speaking, but we're in the band together.

01:47:26.000 So you were not speaking, but yet you were playing together.

01:47:29.000 There have been some times of some real resentment and real anger, but so what?

01:47:37.000 I mean, we're still here, and we do what's best for the band and always have.

01:47:42.000 That's amazing.

01:47:43.000 And we've never gotten along better.

01:47:44.000 That's incredible.

01:47:45.000 How did you guys do that when you're performing on stage if you weren't speaking to each other?

01:47:49.000 Well, I mean, more or less not speaking to each other.

01:47:53.000 Right.

01:47:53.000 Disliking each other intensely.

01:47:56.000 But you get up and that's where we make magic, you know?

01:48:00.000 I said to another band, a really, really big band.

01:48:03.000 Nickelback?

01:48:04.000 No, a really, really big band.

01:48:06.000 And, you know, they were complaining about the relationships within the band.

01:48:11.000 And I said, you know, you don't have to love everybody in the office.

01:48:14.000 And I said, in your case, if you can make magic on stage, anything else is a bonus.

01:48:20.000 So the fact that you get up there and are a great band should suffice.

01:48:25.000 You want more, go get a family.

01:48:29.000 The key to a great partnership is knowing its limitations.

01:48:35.000 You should give seminars on how to keep a band together.

01:48:37.000 I should give seminars, period.

01:48:39.000 Yeah, why don't you give seminars?

01:48:40.000 I've been asked.

01:48:41.000 You should, really.

01:48:43.000 You're an inspirational guy.

01:48:44.000 I mean, it's not just that you're an iconic rock figure, but you're very down-to-earth and very centered.

01:48:49.000 Do you meditate at all?

01:48:51.000 Do you do anything?

01:48:52.000 Just the therapy and being Paul Staley?

01:48:52.000 No.

01:48:56.000 Yeah.

01:48:57.000 It's good to be Paul Stanley.

01:49:00.000 It's great to work, work, work, and find yourself at a great juncture in your life.

01:49:06.000 Enjoying your work.

01:49:08.000 Enjoying your work and enjoying your life.

01:49:09.000 And being loved.

01:49:10.000 And not using your work as an escape from your life.

01:49:15.000 And a lot of performers, I won't say most, but a lot of performers use their work as an escape to get away from a life that they don't like.

01:49:24.000 And is this something that you've figured out over the years through therapy and through thinking and through analyzing and being objective?

01:49:30.000 Yeah.

01:49:31.000 I mean, I can't put everything on therapy, but innately it comes down to, once again, do you like who you see in the mirror?

01:49:41.000 And if you don't, how do you make yourself like that person?

01:49:44.000 And therapy and even pursuing it was sort of obviously because of that, because of this thinking.

01:49:52.000 Yeah, just going, well, this isn't working.

01:49:54.000 Maybe somebody else can enlighten me or direct me another way.

01:49:58.000 Did we figure out how much Radiohead made?

01:50:01.000 It was arguable.

01:50:03.000 They sold around 3 million copies of that album.

01:50:07.000 They also said that three times that went on BitTorrent.

01:50:07.000 Right.

01:50:11.000 So they did make money.

01:50:14.000 Whether or not they would have made ten times that, who knows.

01:50:16.000 Why would it be on BitTorrent if you could pay whatever you want?

01:50:18.000 You could pay whatever you want.

01:50:20.000 But you had to pay something?

01:50:20.000 They also sold special copies of it.

01:50:23.000 They sold an album version.

01:50:24.000 They sold a special box version.

01:50:26.000 They sold 100,000 copies of that.

01:50:28.000 Right.

01:50:29.000 And what did it work out to per album?

01:50:32.000 The information I was finding didn't say per album.

01:50:34.000 So they kept their mouth shut about it.

01:50:36.000 Yeah, it was a disaster.

01:50:40.000 As soon as it went on BitTorrent, it freestocked.

01:50:42.000 It freestocked as soon as BitTorrent went on.

01:50:44.000 They were like, oh, no more free.

01:50:45.000 Oh, really?

01:50:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:50:47.000 When it went on BitTorrent, they got mad?

01:50:49.000 Wait, just kidding, just kidding.

01:50:51.000 Dirtbags of the world.

01:50:53.000 You guys are going to do a residency in Vegas?

01:50:55.000 We are.

01:50:56.000 We are.

01:50:56.000 At the end of this month...

01:50:57.000 I'm there, dude.

01:50:58.000 That's awesome.

01:50:59.000 I'm going to be watching that.

01:51:00.000 Great.

01:51:00.000 Where are you going to be?

01:51:01.000 We're at the Hard Rock in the joint.

01:51:01.000 What hotel?

01:51:04.000 Mainly we're doing Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays, although it switches a bit.

01:51:04.000 Oh, wow.

01:51:09.000 And we're actually...

01:51:10.000 I think we're 40% above any other band that's done the residency there with ticket sales already.

01:51:18.000 The joint's a good venue, too.

01:51:20.000 Not too big.

01:51:21.000 It's intimate in a bit.

01:51:23.000 And what's really interesting is when you play a small place, you tend to downsize.

01:51:23.000 It's great.

01:51:27.000 We actually are cramming more stuff in, because we don't have to travel with it.

01:51:32.000 Right.

01:51:33.000 Oh, yeah, right.

01:51:35.000 We're really gearing up for something great.

01:51:37.000 And at the end of this month, we do the Kiss Cruise, which goes out every year and has about 3,500 fans from 33 countries around the world get on the ship and spend four days traveling.

01:51:49.000 Rockin' and Rollin', bring other bands out.

01:51:51.000 Wow!

01:51:52.000 So you hang out with these freaks for four days?

01:51:54.000 We don't hang out.

01:51:55.000 We do two shows in a theater, and then we go to an island, and we do an acoustic set there, and then we have other bands with us.

01:52:05.000 The night before we leave, Port Cheap Trick plays, and it's great.

01:52:09.000 So we do that, and then we do the Vegas residency.

01:52:13.000 Wow, so you do this tour on this boat, and you're trapped on the boat with all these people.

01:52:21.000 That doesn't freak you out at all?

01:52:22.000 Well, no, because we have a section to ourselves where nobody can come.

01:52:27.000 So that's where you got the dudes with the earpieces. 0.97

01:52:30.000 They're not in the supermarket, but they're on the boat.

01:52:32.000 And the AK-7s.

01:52:34.000 Yeah, I would think that that would be the one thing that was like, I know Opie and Anthony were gonna do a boat tour, and I was like, man, good luck with all that.

01:52:43.000 I have to say, the first year I dreaded, you know, I dreaded the idea of it, and four years into it, I mean, my family comes, it's awesome.

01:52:53.000 Well, it's gotta be amazing to have 3,500 fans on a boat with you.

01:52:57.000 Well, the beautiful thing about it is that They're from all walks of life.

01:53:02.000 I mean, a guy last year was in full gear, all my full gear, and gave me a book.

01:53:08.000 He was a doctor, and he wrote a book on forensic science.

01:53:11.000 Full gear meaning he's dressed like you?

01:53:12.000 Oh, yeah.

01:53:13.000 That's got to be weird.

01:53:14.000 Yeah.

01:53:15.000 So you have gays and straights and, you know... 0.94

01:53:24.000 We're good to go.

01:53:40.000 I think it's so cool because I always go, you know, rock bands make music.

01:53:46.000 Phenomenons impact society.

01:53:48.000 And that's the difference.

01:53:51.000 And that's what KISS is.

01:53:52.000 KISS is a phenomenon.

01:53:53.000 Yeah, you've bypassed the rock star status.

01:53:55.000 Now you're a phenomenon.

01:53:57.000 But you can still see me buying groceries.

01:54:00.000 Now, the Hard Rock, when it does start?

01:54:03.000 It starts November 5th, I believe.

01:54:06.000 How long is it going to run till?

01:54:07.000 It's that month. 0.53

01:54:09.000 And I know, well, I'm sure we'll be back.

01:54:14.000 What happens in Vegas is worth seeing in Vegas twice.

01:54:19.000 Yeah, so how many nights a week are you guys doing that?

01:54:21.000 Three.

01:54:22.000 Three nights a week?

01:54:23.000 Wednesdays.

01:54:24.000 Initially it's Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays.

01:54:27.000 So you just take Thursday off and then...

01:54:28.000 Yeah, I fly home.

01:54:30.000 Oh, you fly home.

01:54:31.000 Yeah.

01:54:32.000 Gotta take the kids to school.

01:54:33.000 Right.

01:54:34.000 Could you imagine living there and doing that?

01:54:37.000 I know people who live outside of Vegas and they like it.

01:54:44.000 Penn Jillette seems to love it, but I always look at him sideways when he tells me that.

01:54:48.000 Like, hmm.

01:54:49.000 Did you see Tim's Vermeer movie he did?

01:54:54.000 No.

01:54:55.000 What is that?

01:54:55.000 It's a guy he knows, an inventor, made a lot of money, had this interest in the painter Vermeer.

01:55:03.000 And nobody can quite figure out how Vermeer painted because he seemed to...

01:55:09.000 He didn't sketch underneath and his handling of light is very, very unique.

01:55:15.000 Anyway, so...

01:55:18.000 Penn& Tell did this movie with their friend documenting his quest to understand how Vermeer painted.

01:55:27.000 It's fabulous.

01:55:29.000 It won an Academy Award, I think, last year or the year before.

01:55:32.000 I've never heard of this guy before.

01:55:34.000 What's so unique about his painting?

01:55:35.000 Vermeer was a Dutch painter who...

01:55:39.000 We're good to go.

01:55:53.000 Somehow he looked at something and painted it, and it's a very interesting film.

01:55:57.000 It's a documentary, but fascinating, and they're the ones behind the film.

01:56:02.000 Well, Penn's a very unique thinker, and he's also a guy, no drugs, no alcohol, no nothing, yet he lives in Vegas, works in show business, was a carny at one point in time, you know, is a professional magician, you know, all those things you would think a guy who's Crazy,

01:56:18.000 off-the-rails, self-destructive.

01:56:20.000 Nope, none of the above.

01:56:21.000 Very, very intelligent guy.

01:56:22.000 Very introspective.

01:56:23.000 Always in deep thought.

01:56:24.000 Has a great podcast.

01:56:26.000 Really had a great radio show before that.

01:56:29.000 He's just a very unique dude.

01:56:31.000 You know, fame gives you the opportunity to have an amazing life or to kill yourself.

01:56:37.000 Take your choice. 0.98

01:56:38.000 You kill yourself with or without it, right? 0.87

01:56:39.000 Yeah, take your choice. 1.00

01:56:40.000 Well, we're all going to die.

01:56:41.000 It's just a matter of when.

01:56:42.000 So, how do people get tickets to the Vegas thing to get through the hard rock?

01:56:46.000 I have no idea.

01:56:48.000 I'm just a guitar player.

01:56:51.000 I just sing Love Gun and Detroit Rock City and Strutter and Come On and Love Me and Firehouse and Hotter Than Hell.

01:57:01.000 Shout it out loud.

01:57:01.000 That's just what I do.

01:57:03.000 That is what you do.

01:57:04.000 And it's been a real privilege, man.

01:57:06.000 Thank you very much.

01:57:06.000 It's been an honor to have you on here.

01:57:07.000 I really, really appreciate it.

01:57:09.000 I've been a fan for so long, so I was like a kid in a candy store today.

01:57:12.000 Awesome.

01:57:12.000 Thank you very much.

01:57:13.000 Thank you.

01:57:14.000 Paul Stanley, ladies and gentlemen.

01:57:16.000 That's it.

01:57:17.000 We're done.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 15, 2014

Joe Rogan Experience #562 - Paul Stanley

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Transcript