The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #625 - Steve Maxwell

00:00:12.000 Ladies and gentlemen, Steve Maxwell, fresh from Australia.

00:00:18.000 International man of mystery, world traveler, trainer of the stars.

00:00:22.000 You're out there, buddy.

00:00:23.000 G'day, mate.

00:00:26.000 They call it Straya.

00:00:28.000 S-T-R-Y-A. That's how they say it?

00:00:32.000 I was checking out my Australian memes, you know, all the Australian slang.

00:00:38.000 Pretty funny, man.

00:00:39.000 You can go online and Google this stuff.

00:00:41.000 Some of the sayings they have are absolutely hilarious.

00:00:44.000 So you were telling me before the show that you just started getting into THC, aka marijuana.

00:00:52.000 You know, it's funny.

00:00:53.000 I'm a child of the 60s and the 70s.

00:00:55.000 And, you know, that was the huge hippie era.

00:00:58.000 Right.

00:00:58.000 And I was a wrestler.

00:01:00.000 I was like, you know, hardcore athlete, wrestled NCAA, Division I. And for me at that time, I believed all the anti-propaganda.

00:01:09.000 You know, I was a pretty straight-laced guy. 0.99

00:01:11.000 And so, you know, oh, it's a gateway drug, and oh my god, you're going to go to hell in a handbasket, and this stuff will destroy your brain, and blah, blah, blah. 0.99

00:01:21.000 You've heard it all, of course.

00:01:23.000 And what was that really funny anti-marijuana movie that they had back in the day?

00:01:28.000 Reefer Madness?

00:01:29.000 Reefer Madness.

00:01:30.000 Yeah, that was an awesome one.

00:01:31.000 We had to watch that in health class when I was in high school.

00:01:34.000 Really?

00:01:35.000 Yeah, that was part of the school curriculum back in the 60s.

00:01:37.000 So they showed it to you like as if it was real?

00:01:40.000 Yeah, like it was real.

00:01:41.000 We all believed that stuff.

00:01:42.000 Remember, I was from little Carlisle, Pennsylvania, you know?

00:01:46.000 That's amazing.

00:01:47.000 That's like a hick town.

00:01:51.000 So, yeah, I just recently started...

00:01:54.000 How recent?

00:01:56.000 Just about maybe six months ago.

00:01:58.000 What happened?

00:01:59.000 What started it off?

00:02:00.000 You know, I just had so many friends that were into it.

00:02:04.000 And it's interesting because I made observations.

00:02:07.000 I've been in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu now for, oh my god, since 89?

00:02:10.000 How many years is that?

00:02:12.000 A lot.

00:02:13.000 20-something?

00:02:15.000 Yeah, okay.

00:02:15.000 26?

00:02:16.000 What is that?

00:02:17.000 26?

00:02:17.000 Well, almost every BJJ champ that I know was totally into marijuana.

00:02:23.000 They used it to relax because it's such an intense sport, you know?

00:02:27.000 I mean, if you think about it, it's such an extremist thing.

00:02:30.000 What do you do?

00:02:31.000 You go out and try to hurt someone as much as possible with joint locks and so forth, or you choke them to sleep, right?

00:02:38.000 Of course, that being said, I had way more injuries with college wrestling than I ever did with jiu-jitsu because you can always tap.

00:02:45.000 But I just noticed that these guys, you know, it's an intense sport, maybe not as intense as MMA, but certainly up there, and they all would light up at night and so forth.

00:02:55.000 You know, they'd have their bongs or, you know, roll up a joint.

00:02:58.000 And I could just never figure this out.

00:03:00.000 It just would blow my mind.

00:03:02.000 Right.

00:03:03.000 And over time, I just got more and more curious.

00:03:06.000 So I had a lot of friends in Australia that were really totally into this also.

00:03:12.000 And I just decided, you know what?

00:03:15.000 Maybe I'm missing something here.

00:03:17.000 You know?

00:03:18.000 Now that I'm in my 60s, you know?

00:03:21.000 I missed the 60s, so I'm in my 60s, so I'm going to check this out.

00:03:26.000 So I started playing around.

00:03:27.000 Got one of those.

00:03:28.000 What I didn't like was the smoke.

00:03:30.000 I find it really irritating.

00:03:31.000 But I tried one of those.

00:03:32.000 They call it the vape.

00:03:34.000 It's like a little square box with a little straw.

00:03:36.000 It looks like a little kid's juice box.

00:03:38.000 Right, right.

00:03:40.000 Adult juice box.

00:03:41.000 They have a bunch of those now.

00:03:43.000 They have pens that, like, they look like...

00:03:47.000 It's like some sort of a metal cylinder with a lip on the end of it and you pack it with either oil that you can buy pre-filled little tubes of hemp oil or THC oil and you stick it in there and it has some sort of an element in there and it heats it up and you're just breathing in vapor.

00:04:04.000 It's just a vaporizer, a portable vaporizer.

00:04:07.000 So, yeah, I was just very curious, and well, I mean, you've been into this for a long time, very open about it, and I thought, well, you are really into your health and your body, and you take great care of yourself, and I figured,

00:04:23.000 you know, if it's really all that harmful, Joe wouldn't be doing this.

00:04:28.000 There's no way that you would do something like that.

00:04:31.000 I was with you.

00:04:32.000 I mean, before I started smoking pot, I was in the same boat. 1.00

00:04:35.000 I really thought it was for idiots. 1.00

00:04:36.000 I thought it was for people that just wanted to escape reality. 1.00

00:04:39.000 They were weak.

00:04:40.000 They couldn't handle it.

00:04:41.000 They just wanted to get drugged out.

00:04:42.000 I thought about it the same way I think about pain pills today.

00:04:46.000 Like, I took...

00:04:48.000 I've had three knee surgeries.

00:04:50.000 My first major one, my first ACL, was a patella tendon graft, which is particularly painful because they slice your patella tendon, they cut a chunk out of your kneecap and a chunk out of your shin bone, and then they drill it all in place and screw it in place.

00:05:06.000 It's good because it's a native piece of tendon, so it adheres to the body very quickly, and there's very little chance of rejection, and it's very strong.

00:05:16.000 But it's very painful. 0.98

00:05:18.000 And they gave me a prescription for Vicodins or some shit. 0.98

00:05:21.000 I took one of them. 0.99

00:05:22.000 One. 0.99

00:05:23.000 And I remember sitting on the couch feeling so stupid and foggy. 0.99

00:05:27.000 And I said, I am done with this. 0.98

00:05:29.000 My other two surgeries, my other ACL and my other meniscus surgery, I didn't take anything.

00:05:35.000 My knee, my nose, when I had my nose fixed, I had my deviated septum fixed and my turbinates cut out, my nose stretched out and they put tubes in it and everything.

00:05:44.000 Nothing.

00:05:45.000 I didn't take anything just pot and I Don't like I don't like anything that leaves me like cloudy and that seems like that's what I thought pot was I thought pot was something that left you Stupid or cloudy and it's really just it's the opposite. 0.76

00:06:03.000 It tunes you in I was shocked I was utterly shocked and The first thing I noticed was my vision improved.

00:06:10.000 I've been nearsighted most of my life, and I basically found my eyes were getting worse each year, getting stronger prescriptions.

00:06:18.000 I finally read this book, Take Off Your Glasses and See, and I just basically threw my glasses in the trash and started doing eye strengthening exercises.

00:06:28.000 What kind of them?

00:06:28.000 I'm going through that right now myself.

00:06:30.000 They improved a lot.

00:06:31.000 There's a lot of different exercises you can do, but The name of the book is Take Off Your Glasses and See.

00:06:37.000 And this guy was a disciple of the Bates method of eye strengthening.

00:06:42.000 But when I was at the summit of the Breathmasters in Moscow, they had a bunch of guys there that were using breathing and eye exercise and all sorts of stuff for the improvement of vision.

00:06:53.000 One was a former Spetsonist sniper, so I guess he knows a thing or two about vision training.

00:06:58.000 And he was showing some of the eye exercises he does, you know, real simple stuff.

00:07:03.000 And it was like, wow, this works, but only to a point.

00:07:06.000 It got really good to the point where I can drive during the day.

00:07:10.000 I'm still a little reluctant to drive at night.

00:07:13.000 I mean, I could, but I can't read street signs at night.

00:07:17.000 During the day, I can actually see signs.

00:07:21.000 But I'm a little reluctant.

00:07:23.000 And what I noticed when I would take the THC, I was using one of those vaporizer things, it was like my eyes would start to really clear, which leads me to believe that it has something to do with muscular tension.

00:07:37.000 I noticed that my digestion would improve.

00:07:40.000 And instead of getting foggy, Like I would be on my iPad maybe doing an email or something.

00:07:46.000 It's like somehow my fingers would just glide over the keys and just magically find the letters way faster, or at least my perception of how much faster.

00:07:56.000 I don't know.

00:07:57.000 It was just a very interesting experience.

00:07:59.000 Well, one of the things that people use it for with jujitsu is not just to relax after training, but before training because it focuses you in a very tunnel vision sort of a way.

00:08:08.000 When I roll, when I smoke pot and roll, I feel like I'm better at jujitsu.

00:08:13.000 I really do.

00:08:14.000 I feel like...

00:08:15.000 More relaxed.

00:08:16.000 Not just more relaxed, I feel like I'm more sensitive.

00:08:19.000 I'm more in tune with what's going on.

00:08:22.000 I'm also, I love stretching on it.

00:08:24.000 That's one of my favorite things to do.

00:08:25.000 I love eating one of those things, those jambos I just gave you.

00:08:28.000 Dan, it's interesting.

00:08:29.000 I haven't tried eating it yet.

00:08:31.000 That's an all-organic, edible THC, you know, marijuana, little cake thing.

00:08:37.000 And it's all with natural honey and all natural ingredients.

00:08:40.000 It's, like, probably the healthiest of all these edible ones.

00:08:43.000 Because a lot of these edible ones are using processed sugars and You know, high fructose corn syrup and stuff, it's not good for you.

00:08:49.000 So this guy who created these, he decided, you know, there's got to be a market for an organic version of these marijuana edibles.

00:08:56.000 So that's much healthier for your body, but it's really strong.

00:09:00.000 Be careful.

00:09:01.000 Yeah, no, I'm going to be very careful.

00:09:03.000 I have not, in truth, taken it before I've trained, but I read about the guy in Colorado, the triathlete.

00:09:11.000 He's a world-class athlete, very elite, and he's been really advocating taking it before endurance training.

00:09:18.000 Somehow it improves pain threshold, your tolerance to physical exercise pain, not pain pain, but like exercise-induced discomfort.

00:09:29.000 It changes the way your body reacts It changes the way your body reacts.

00:09:35.000 When I work out with it, if I lift weights with it, I can feel the fibers, or at least I feel like I'm feeling it, I feel the fibers of my muscles.

00:09:44.000 I'm very sensitive to it, which is one of the reasons why I really enjoy doing it before I stretch.

00:09:50.000 Terence McKenna, who is a late great psychedelic philosopher, it was his contention that yoga itself was really a how-to-use cannabis manual.

00:10:01.000 And that the way to optimize your experience with cannabis was through yoga.

00:10:05.000 Because all of those sadhus, all those guys are just hash smoking freaks. 1.00

00:10:11.000 That's like the dark secret of the sadhus, he would say.

00:10:14.000 What they really concentrate on is how many chillums can you smoke before you pass out?

00:10:18.000 You're not a man unless you can go deep, deep, deep into the rabbit hole.

00:10:23.000 And these guys would smoke massive amounts of hash and do yoga.

00:10:28.000 And I used to think, wow, that's kind of crazy.

00:10:31.000 I guess they're just having fun and doing it.

00:10:33.000 Until the one time I did yoga when I was high.

00:10:36.000 And I was like, wow, this is amazing.

00:10:40.000 It's like I can relax more.

00:10:42.000 I can get deeper into poses.

00:10:44.000 And also I feel like, I feel the resistance.

00:10:48.000 Like a lot of, Pavel talks about this as well.

00:10:52.000 I don't know how to say his last name.

00:10:54.000 How do you say his last name?

00:10:54.000 Sat Solain.

00:10:55.000 Sat Solain, who's one of the most famous advocates of the kettlebell industry.

00:11:01.000 He talked about stretching being a big part of what holds you back is tension, psychological tension, not necessarily even flexibility, but that you're worried about...

00:11:11.000 Yeah, your brain sets up that stretch reflex when you're in an unfamiliar position.

00:11:15.000 So it's, you know, it's saying danger, you're in a different position than you're used to being in.

00:11:20.000 And for most of us, that's sitting in chairs, or most people.

00:11:24.000 Right.

00:11:25.000 Yeah, that's the most common position, right?

00:11:28.000 When your head's in between your legs and you're stretching your hamstrings out.

00:11:33.000 Your body's a little threatened by that.

00:11:35.000 Yeah, your body's like, what are you doing there, buddy?

00:11:37.000 Tense it up!

00:11:38.000 Tense it up!

00:11:39.000 What he was saying was that it's all about breathing, resist, and then relax.

00:11:46.000 Resist, and then relax.

00:11:48.000 But that resist and relax is enhanced, I don't know how many fold when you're on marijuana.

00:11:54.000 I mean, it's amazing how deep you go into stretches and how good it feels afterwards.

00:11:58.000 It's this weird state you reach when you do yoga or any type of deep stretching on marijuana.

00:12:05.000 I'm a huge, huge fan of that.

00:12:08.000 Listen, I'm a neophyte, man.

00:12:10.000 Teach me, master.

00:12:12.000 I think it's amazing.

00:12:14.000 Listen, man, never let it be said that Steve Maxwell doesn't experiment, you know?

00:12:19.000 I really think that one of the secrets to aging well is to be open-minded and just to experiment and learn new things, try new things, and don't be such a stick in the mud with your belief systems, you know?

00:12:32.000 Yeah, it's hard.

00:12:33.000 Don't get so holier than thou with all your beliefs because, hey, man.

00:12:37.000 You know, if you think about it, a lot of really high spiritual adepts, they all use some type of either, you know, hallucinogen or—we talked last time on the show about ayahuasca and so forth and, you know, the shamans using their mushrooms and— Well, 0.90

00:12:55.000 I think as you get older, I think especially when you have been around a lot of fools, you reach a certain point in your life where you don't want to tolerate any nonsense. 0.93

00:13:06.000 And you're just like, ah, enough of this nonsense. 0.98

00:13:08.000 Like what you need is, you know, a good diet.

00:13:11.000 You don't need any supplements.

00:13:13.000 You don't need any hooey in your life. 1.00

00:13:14.000 You don't need any BS. Just get out of bed and go out and do it.

00:13:18.000 Just do it. 0.98

00:13:18.000 That sort of mentality serves you well, but in having that mentality and meeting all these fools, sometimes you can kind of develop prejudices. 0.98

00:13:27.000 You develop these ideas that aren't necessarily based on data.

00:13:30.000 It's more based on like sort of just your perceptions of the people that are around you. 0.95

00:13:36.000 Like if you see enough losers that do something, you say, well, that's for losers. 0.99

00:13:40.000 You see enough losers that are Smoking pot, you think, well, pot is for losers. 0.99

00:13:44.000 It's obvious. 1.00

00:13:45.000 Like, look at all these losers smoking pot. 0.99

00:13:46.000 And then you meet, like, BJ Penn. 0.98

00:13:48.000 You're like, wait a minute, hold on, BJ Penn gets high and does jiu-jitsu?

00:13:51.000 Like, what?

00:13:52.000 What's going on there?

00:13:53.000 And then, you know, you find out that 90% of the Brazilian jiu-jitsu champions are smoking pot and rolling.

00:13:58.000 Yeah, they all relax with this stuff, yeah.

00:14:01.000 It's a performance enhancer.

00:14:03.000 There was actually an article recently about ultramarathoners.

00:14:05.000 Jamie, see if you can pull that up, because I forget what publication it was in, but it was a big article where people were really being really shocked at the results and these guys that were ultramarathoners that were advocating smoking marijuana,

00:14:20.000 and they were talking about, should this be banned from ultramarathons?

00:14:24.000 Well, outside magazine, also.

00:14:26.000 Could have been outside.

00:14:27.000 Oh, there it is.

00:14:28.000 Fox News, right here.

00:14:29.000 Yeah, there we go.

00:14:30.000 A bunch of different things.

00:14:31.000 Marijuana has benefits, but is it ethical?

00:14:34.000 Yeah, see, this is the thing. 0.92

00:14:35.000 Goddammit, people, of course it's ethical.

00:14:37.000 Are vitamins ethical?

00:14:38.000 Is fruit ethical?

00:14:39.000 Is caffeine ethical? 1.00

00:14:40.000 It's a goddamn plant. 1.00

00:14:42.000 I mean, these people are all on caffeine, by the way. 1.00

00:14:44.000 Here's the dirty secret about marathon runners.

00:14:46.000 I have a buddy.

00:14:48.000 My friend Cameron Haynes is a fanatical runner.

00:14:50.000 He runs 10 miles a day, sometimes 15. He does marathons.

00:14:55.000 He's done an ultramarathon.

00:14:56.000 I think he's gearing up for another ultramarathon. 0.97

00:14:57.000 He's a maniac.

00:14:59.000 And he's always hopped up on the caffeine. 0.99

00:15:01.000 Always.

00:15:02.000 But he has a job, like a regular job, and he can't touch the pot.

00:15:06.000 And I've been telling him about all this, and he's like, maybe there's another good reason why I should quit my job.

00:15:10.000 Yeah!

00:15:12.000 You know, there's another very interesting thing I've been experimenting with for years, and that's the theta brainwave meditation, where you actually – your brain produces different levels of brainwaves.

00:15:27.000 Your brain oscillates at certain speeds, and different parts of the brain produce different – like alpha, beta, gamma, delta, theta – But Theta is like the one that's most closely associated with that sort of between sleep and wakefulness when the subconscious mind can be programmed.

00:15:44.000 And there's a lot of really good programs out there.

00:15:46.000 It produces a beat.

00:15:48.000 And then your brain starts to adapt and copy the beat.

00:15:53.000 And you can slow the brain wave down.

00:15:55.000 That's what I did in the plane.

00:15:57.000 Like I said, I flew in from Sydney.

00:15:59.000 Like a 14-hour flight, man.

00:16:01.000 And didn't really get that much sleep.

00:16:03.000 But I did one of those binaural beats theta brainwave meditation.

00:16:09.000 Now, when you do this, you're wearing headphones?

00:16:10.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:16:11.000 I actually was using Bose earbud noise cancellations and just sitting there with my iPhone and just, wow, zoning.

00:16:20.000 And when you come out of it, you feel like you just had a refreshing sleep.

00:16:25.000 Really?

00:16:26.000 Yeah, it's very, very relaxing, speaking of relaxation.

00:16:30.000 And so for those folks that are still a little leery about maybe trying something like THC, you can do this with the theta brainwave meditation.

00:16:39.000 All the brainwaves, like, have their benefits.

00:16:42.000 The alpha is like what we're in right now, the alpha and the beta, like while we're awake.

00:16:49.000 Gamma is like when you're in a real deep sleep, like a real deep dreamlike state.

00:16:53.000 The theta is like that twilight.

00:16:57.000 When people meditate, they go into a theta brainwave state.

00:17:02.000 But by listening, you could meditate like a monk your first time out, man.

00:17:08.000 Wow.

00:17:08.000 Yeah.

00:17:09.000 It doesn't require any special breathing or postures or anything.

00:17:13.000 You can just literally sit or lie down comfortably, and you just go into the zone.

00:17:18.000 And if you do practice visualization or if you practice any kind of affirmations or Subconscious mind programming, it's a great time to do it, man.

00:17:28.000 So you're listening to a program.

00:17:30.000 What is the name of the program and how do you get it?

00:17:31.000 Well, there's a whole bunch of different ones, you know.

00:17:33.000 You can go to Amazon or iTunes and just look for Theta Brainwave Meditation.

00:17:38.000 I'd recommend maybe people just go on, you know, just Google it and look at the different...

00:17:43.000 I mean, there's so many different companies out there now.

00:17:45.000 You can get CDs, you can get...

00:17:48.000 MP3s.

00:17:51.000 You can download it on iTunes.

00:17:52.000 I have it on my iPhone.

00:17:54.000 That's great.

00:17:54.000 About a dozen programs.

00:17:55.000 And it's really handy for guys like us, because you do your fair share of travel, when you have to adapt to a new time zone.

00:18:04.000 And it's pretty hard to sleep in some of these planes sometimes.

00:18:07.000 Yeah, it's hard for me to sleep on planes.

00:18:09.000 It's also hard for me.

00:18:10.000 Well, you know, if I'm tired, I can conk out pretty much anywhere.

00:18:13.000 I can lie down on the floor.

00:18:14.000 But it's hard for me when I have to do something in like three hours.

00:18:19.000 And I know, well, I could take a nap right now for two hours.

00:18:22.000 Good luck.

00:18:22.000 Yeah.

00:18:23.000 I'm almost never able to.

00:18:24.000 Makes you feel worse than if you didn't take it at all.

00:18:26.000 I lie there and I go, come on, go to sleep, come on.

00:18:29.000 I usually can't get there.

00:18:31.000 Well, you slap the earphones on with your binaural beats.

00:18:34.000 That's just like one of the programs.

00:18:37.000 What does it sound like?

00:18:38.000 Well, sometimes they use music.

00:18:40.000 You can hear like an underlying beat.

00:18:42.000 It's just underneath the conscious hearing.

00:18:44.000 But you can kind of hear like this little rhythm going on.

00:18:48.000 And sometimes they'll have beautiful kind of angelic music.

00:18:52.000 Sometimes they just have like sounds of the ocean, you know, like ocean waves.

00:18:57.000 Incredibly relaxing.

00:18:58.000 And you just find yourself zoning.

00:19:00.000 And when you finish the program, you really do feel like you had just a very nice, refreshing sleep.

00:19:07.000 Wow.

00:19:08.000 And you feel quite excellent.

00:19:11.000 So they vary in the sounds, but the beat stimulates the same part of the brain.

00:19:16.000 Yeah.

00:19:17.000 There's a couple of different techniques.

00:19:19.000 One of the techniques, they have a different rhythm going on in each ear.

00:19:24.000 Wow.

00:19:24.000 So the right and left hemispheres have to synchronize with each other.

00:19:28.000 What if you're bipolar?

00:19:30.000 I don't know, man.

00:19:31.000 Probably not a good idea.

00:19:35.000 Maybe it'll sort you out.

00:19:36.000 I'm not a brain scientist, but I have been doing this for a bunch of years with good results, but I don't know. 0.98

00:19:42.000 Maybe if you have a mental illness or a bipolar syndrome.

00:19:45.000 But they do claim that it regulates your hormonal levels.

00:19:49.000 Really?

00:19:49.000 Yeah.

00:19:50.000 And even to the point of producing growth hormone and so forth, Have you ever messed around with any of those?

00:20:01.000 Do you know what a turbosonic is?

00:20:03.000 It uses sound waves through the base of a platform.

00:20:06.000 You stand on this and it takes you through a bunch of different cycles.

00:20:09.000 I have.

00:20:10.000 And it's sound, but you don't hear it.

00:20:12.000 It's like you're standing on a speaker and it's like shaking.

00:20:15.000 You're just getting vibed.

00:20:16.000 I love that thing.

00:20:17.000 I have one of those things in my house, and it's supposed to do all sorts of things as far as stimulate the production of various hormones and aid healing and circulation, but it makes you feel great.

00:20:31.000 There's even ways you can just exercise and do vibrations and so forth.

00:20:36.000 Trampolines are really good for that, right?

00:20:37.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:38.000 I mean, the Taoist yogis and the Qigong Practitioners have been doing similar things with their own bodies.

00:20:46.000 I mean, obviously, the platform makes it much more convenient.

00:20:49.000 Oh, it's 10 minutes. 0.98

00:20:50.000 You get on that sucker for 10 minutes, and you're like... 0.98

00:20:52.000 It goes through all these different... 0.99

00:20:58.000 You'll do like 10 seconds at one, and then 10 seconds at another, and then very fast, high frequency, and then low and slow, and shaking...

00:21:08.000 And when it's over, you're like, God, I feel so good.

00:21:10.000 It feels fantastic.

00:21:11.000 Yeah, it's wild.

00:21:12.000 But, yeah, like Feldenkrais, he was, you know, they have like a bouncing, shaking, vibrational kind of thing, and there's, like I said, the Taoist yogis have a thing where they do this kind of stuff.

00:21:25.000 When I was in Russia, they had, like, as part of their Slavic Russian health system, their mobility stuff, they would have shaking and vibrations and And all the stuff that you just kind of do to yourself. 0.98

00:21:39.000 I read this guy, Alexander Lowen.

00:21:42.000 He was like a psychiatrist that treated people with chronic mental problems with exercise and so forth.

00:21:51.000 Really?

00:21:51.000 He was really big into shaking and moving the body and all these interesting patterns.

00:21:56.000 It's very relaxing.

00:21:57.000 It just gets a lot of the tension out.

00:21:59.000 And I agree with you.

00:22:00.000 I do believe it does help facilitate recovery.

00:22:04.000 I think mental problems and relaxation are so often not connected with each other.

00:22:09.000 Mental problems and exercise and exertion and the fact that a lot of people, a lot of their tension comes from not releasing energy and their body stores up this energy like a battery and then it's leaking all over the place.

00:22:24.000 It's just like they're short-circuiting.

00:22:26.000 When you see people screaming in traffic and, you know, and cutting people off and all this madness that, I mean, it really is like a form of madness when you see someone screaming at someone that's not even anywhere near them in traffic.

00:22:38.000 The stress levels just get so much.

00:22:40.000 And a lot of that goes also back, and we talked about this last time too, about your breathing patterns.

00:22:45.000 Most people, and I do seminars all over the world, and we test ourselves to see what type of breather we are.

00:22:52.000 That's like one of the things we do first.

00:22:54.000 And almost everybody in the seminar is like a calvicular breather.

00:22:57.000 They're using the emergency apparatus of the upper neck and chest, shallow breathing.

00:23:02.000 Panic breathing.

00:23:02.000 And it's panic breathing.

00:23:03.000 And all those emergency receptors are in the upper lobes of the lungs, and they're not bringing the O2 down into the lower lobes.

00:23:12.000 So they're in a chronic panic.

00:23:14.000 They're in a heightened state of vigilance all the time.

00:23:17.000 That's exhausting, man.

00:23:19.000 And it does all sorts of weird things to your hormones.

00:23:21.000 And it's definitely, it's hard to be in a good mood and relaxed when you're in this panicked state.

00:23:27.000 Your subconscious mind doesn't know that there's not like a threat looming over the horizon.

00:23:34.000 So everything that happens is perceived as a threat.

00:23:37.000 Every little comment, you know, someone cuts you off in traffic, people take it so personally because it's a threat because they're all caught up in the chest.

00:23:46.000 And man, I'm telling you, when you learn to do proper diaphragmatic breathing and bring the breath down in the lower lobes of the lungs, it's incredibly calming.

00:23:55.000 You know?

00:23:55.000 You do that with...

00:23:56.000 So what do you recommend if someone is looking into doing something like that?

00:24:01.000 Is there a book that you recommend or a program?

00:24:03.000 Do you have a video or anything?

00:24:04.000 Well, get to one of my seminars.

00:24:05.000 Yeah, one of your seminars would be great.

00:24:06.000 And I do a lot of breath work.

00:24:08.000 You know, well, Master Hicks and Grace, you know, I mean, for years he never showed us his breathing system. 0.95

00:24:15.000 He'd be kicking our ass and doing this kind of weird breathing. 0.94

00:24:19.000 I used to think, is he making fun of me? 0.99

00:24:21.000 You know, that's kind of this weird kind of thing he was doing.

00:24:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:25.000 Exactly.

00:24:27.000 You know, Hoyce, Hoyler, you know, they all knew how to do this, and they weren't teaching us blue and purple bouts at the time, but now he's spending a lot of time teaching it.

00:24:36.000 I heard that Kron also is spending a lot of time, because I think it's really, really important for combat athletes to, you know, learn to relax, and the way you relax in combat is through breath manipulation.

00:24:48.000 But as far as actually being taught, I haven't seen it.

00:24:53.000 The Systema guys do a pretty good job with it, you know.

00:24:56.000 But it's funny because, you know, I started really getting into this and reading a lot.

00:25:01.000 But I wasn't reading stuff related to combat as much as mostly yoga stuff, you know, or Qigong.

00:25:08.000 So, yeah, it's kind of hard to find the information.

00:25:12.000 Yeah, it's hard to find information.

00:25:14.000 It's hard to know what's the best program for you.

00:25:18.000 I guess you have to try a few different ones to find out what you enjoy or what seems to benefit you.

00:25:23.000 But I think, especially when you're dealing with martial arts and you're dealing with...

00:25:29.000 Training and especially competing.

00:25:32.000 You're dealing with extremely stressful situations where your body is pushed at a very high pace, where you reach the point of exhaustion, and then you have to continue for three, four minutes while you're exhausted.

00:25:44.000 Everyone who's ever rolled has experienced that.

00:25:47.000 You're doing maybe a seven or nine minute roll, which means grappling, sparring.

00:25:52.000 For the uninitiated.

00:25:54.000 And a lot of times you're two, three minutes in, especially if you're rolling with someone good, and you are exhausted.

00:25:59.000 Totally exhausted.

00:26:00.000 And you've got to figure out a way to get to a clinch and just Try to bring your heart rate down and try to do just enough to defend and keep moving But not enough to totally tax out your muscles and also don't let your mind get into that panic state like the breath is what Controls that yeah,

00:26:22.000 because if you can't breathe you're gonna freak out Yeah, I remember training with a guy who was like a real athletic guy, a very strong guy, but he hadn't done jujitsu before.

00:26:34.000 And so he was really excited to learn it and just try to get into jujitsu.

00:26:38.000 And, you know, he's in there sparring and he asked me to spar.

00:26:42.000 And I'm like, okay, alright, you know, how long are you doing it now?

00:26:44.000 He's like, oh, a couple months and this and that.

00:26:46.000 I'm just getting into it.

00:26:47.000 I'm just starting to spar.

00:26:48.000 I'm like, alright, let's go.

00:26:50.000 And so we start, I remember I got to a position, I like mounted him, and I could feel him just full panic.

00:26:57.000 His body locked up.

00:26:58.000 And I remember I'd never felt, because I'm not usually rolling with someone who's that inexperienced.

00:27:05.000 So to do like a raw white belt, it's only been doing it for a short period of time, he really didn't know what to do. 0.97

00:27:10.000 And he was just locked up.

00:27:12.000 And I'm like, just calm down.

00:27:13.000 Just breathe.

00:27:15.000 Just breathe.

00:27:16.000 Like, you know, it's not going to help you.

00:27:19.000 Like, this is definitely going to hurt you.

00:27:20.000 You're going to get tapped out either way, but if you breathe in, you're going to be able to keep going and you're going to be able to learn. 1.00

00:27:27.000 And I'll walk you through shit. 0.99

00:27:29.000 I'll tell you what to not do, where to put yourself. 1.00

00:27:31.000 But this...

00:27:33.000 You can't ever let that happen, ever.

00:27:35.000 Even if you're gonna lose, even if you're gonna get tapped out, don't ever let yourself freak.

00:27:40.000 You can't freak.

00:27:41.000 And in a real emergency, let's say some type of street altercation where, I mean, maybe there's a lot more on the line than a trophy or a medal or...

00:27:49.000 You know, like your life.

00:27:51.000 Or your ego in class.

00:27:52.000 Like your life.

00:27:53.000 Yeah, knowing how to breathe and keep calm is really, really, really important.

00:27:58.000 Very important.

00:27:59.000 Keep your mind clear.

00:28:01.000 But it takes a lot of practice, and you have to do it.

00:28:03.000 And there's a lot of really cool breathing exercises that you can do, even just walking, jogging, you know, even with your exercises and so forth.

00:28:12.000 Everyone can lose.

00:28:13.000 Anyone, especially that's learning and developing, you can lose, and you're probably going to lose, whether it's in sparring or whether it's in competition, when you come up against someone who's better than you.

00:28:24.000 But there's a big difference between losing and losing composure and breaking, you know, that term breaking.

00:28:31.000 When you feel a guy give up.

00:28:33.000 We've all seen it.

00:28:34.000 We've seen it in fights.

00:28:36.000 And some guys just don't break.

00:28:38.000 Here's a perfect example.

00:28:40.000 Jon Jones doesn't break.

00:28:41.000 He just doesn't break.

00:28:43.000 He might take breathers, but in his mind, he's the greatest of all time.

00:28:50.000 He's going to figure out how to beat you.

00:28:51.000 It's a foregone conclusion.

00:28:53.000 He's not going to tap.

00:28:54.000 When he fought Vitor Belfort, Vitor Belfort caught him in a beautiful arm bar from the guard.

00:28:58.000 And had his arm completely hyperextended.

00:29:01.000 Ruined his arm. 0.97

00:29:02.000 I mean his arm, John's arm was fucked up for like months afterwards.

00:29:06.000 He had to take a gig on the Ultimate Fighter and coach for a long time because he wasn't able to train and he wasn't, he was not gonna be able to fight for at least like six months to let that arm heal.

00:29:15.000 But it didn't matter.

00:29:16.000 He was, he was not going to tap.

00:29:18.000 Like he was gonna get his arm broken and he was gonna still win.

00:29:20.000 He was gonna find a way to win.

00:29:22.000 He is not breaking. 0.99

00:29:23.000 And then there's other guys The first moment where things go wrong, you see this look in their eye, they're like, oh shit, it's going wrong. 0.99

00:29:29.000 They lose composure. 0.98

00:29:32.000 And these doors that you go into with your mind, you get real comfortable entering these doors.

00:29:38.000 You get real comfortable entering these areas of the mind.

00:29:42.000 And this can apply to all aspects of your life, I think.

00:29:45.000 Well, like Jacare, when he fought Roger, that perfect example.

00:29:50.000 Perfect example.

00:29:50.000 He wanted the win, he took the damage to the elbow, fought one arm, just to eke out the victory.

00:29:59.000 For folks who don't know what we're talking about, Haja Gracie, one of the very best black belts in the world, and Jacare, one of the very best black belts in the world.

00:30:07.000 Was it in the Mundiales?

00:30:08.000 Yeah, I think it was the Open Finals.

00:30:10.000 Yeah, it was a huge Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu World Championship, and Hodger broke Jacare's arm, and Jacare just tucked that sucker in his belt and kept going.

00:30:19.000 Kept going.

00:30:20.000 He only had, I don't know, 30 or 40 seconds, so he just basically played the outside edge of the mat because he had points.

00:30:27.000 Yeah, he let him break his arm instead of tapping.

00:30:29.000 It was crazy.

00:30:30.000 Now, for your listeners out there, though...

00:30:34.000 Don't do that.

00:30:35.000 We're talking about hardcore professional athletes that make their living fighting world championships on the line, you know, thousands of dollars on the line, but in class, I'm one of those guys that like, hey, if you catch me,

00:30:51.000 you trick me, you know, fighting out of an arm lock or a triangle.

00:30:56.000 Look, the mistake's already been made.

00:30:58.000 You got me in the trap.

00:31:00.000 I made a mistake.

00:31:01.000 I acknowledge it.

00:31:03.000 You know, I mean, I'll fight a little bit, but, you know, as soon as I feel like, uh, nah, this is just tap and just forget about it.

00:31:11.000 So important to tap.

00:31:12.000 The biggest mistakes I've ever made in training is not tapping.

00:31:15.000 Especially when you're over 45 and these guys that want to.

00:31:18.000 And that brings up another subject.

00:31:20.000 I've been really doing a lot of work with jiu-jitsu for a lifetime, you know.

00:31:25.000 I like what the grandsons of Elia Gracie have been saying.

00:31:28.000 Yeah, let's get that video, because you have a beautiful video that you sent me.

00:31:31.000 And let's show what happened to Jacare's elbow, too, by the way.

00:31:34.000 Jacare had surgery on his elbow, and they pulled these chunks of bone that were broken off and cartilage inside his elbow.

00:31:42.000 I never heard about the aftermath.

00:31:44.000 I knew it was pretty messed up, but I never heard exactly what he had to do to repair that.

00:31:49.000 Well, he did it recently.

00:31:50.000 I heard it was bad, though.

00:31:51.000 Yeah, he had it recently repaired.

00:31:53.000 I mean, he had it repaired back then, but...

00:31:55.000 The damage, all the cartilage, and all the stuff that's broken off inside of his elbow was just swimming around in his elbow, messing with his...

00:32:01.000 That's some serious...

00:32:02.000 Yeah.

00:32:03.000 Oh, it's so painful.

00:32:04.000 You know, you can't extend your arm all the way.

00:32:06.000 Well, your body builds up, you know, bone and calcification around that injury, and you get those osteophytes, and before you know it, you pretty much lose range of motion in your joints.

00:32:16.000 Yeah, the surgery images he put online, and it was just like so disgusting.

00:32:22.000 Bad news, man.

00:32:23.000 I do love to avoid surgery.

00:32:26.000 Yeah.

00:32:27.000 Yeah, it was a five-hour surgery just to clean out his elbow.

00:32:31.000 Look at this.

00:32:32.000 And it's a good chance...

00:32:33.000 Oh, man, that is really nasty.

00:32:36.000 But, you know, even after the surgery, there's a good chance it's never going to be the same again.

00:32:40.000 Very good chance.

00:32:41.000 Very good chance.

00:32:42.000 I mean, they're finding out ways now with stem cells to regenerate cartilage, like, for the first time ever.

00:32:48.000 Football players are doing it.

00:32:49.000 They're using it on older folk that have had bone-to-bone arthritis for years.

00:32:54.000 It's pretty amazing, isn't it?

00:32:56.000 We're in a great time.

00:32:57.000 We're in a great time.

00:32:58.000 If we could just live long enough, Joe, you know?

00:33:01.000 Just get replacement parts for everything grown from our own bodies, right?

00:33:05.000 Yeah.

00:33:05.000 Well, it's very possible that that is gonna happen, but also very possible that they're just gonna be able to regenerate tissue, that all your injured tissue, all your damaged areas are just gonna be able to regenerate them.

00:33:16.000 It's gonna be like Star Trek, right, where they used to take that little thing and, you know, just go over your body and, you know, you're healed now.

00:33:22.000 Well, there's a guy in Germany, Dr. Peter Weller, who is the same guy who created that Regenikine process that all the pro athletes, they were flying over to Germany to do it, and now they go to, there's a company called Lifespan Medicine that does it in Santa Monica,

00:33:37.000 and they do it in Dallas, and I believe they're opening up other offices as well.

00:33:41.000 They take your blood out, they spin it in a centrifuge, and they heat it up, and the reaction to the heat makes your blood produce this really intense anti-inflammatory and I've had it done.

00:33:52.000 A lot of people have had really chronic injuries have had it done.

00:33:55.000 And it works miracles.

00:33:57.000 Well, he's developed this full-body MRI machine, which literally just gets a map of everything going on in your body.

00:34:07.000 And once he went and did it, he developed this and found out he had colon cancer.

00:34:12.000 Well, yeah, he had no idea.

00:34:14.000 Particularly aggressive type of colon cancer and caught it right away.

00:34:18.000 Early on.

00:34:19.000 Went into surgery, now it's fine.

00:34:21.000 But I mean, it's like, this is how amazing it is.

00:34:23.000 It's so amazing that it actually worked and benefited the guy who created it.

00:34:27.000 It's amazing, amazing stuff.

00:34:29.000 Nice to be the beneficiary of your own inventions and discoveries, man.

00:34:34.000 Well, it's also a reward for being on the cutting edge of healing and science for this guy, medical science.

00:34:40.000 But let's play this video that you have that you sent us because it's really cool.

00:34:44.000 I really liked what you're doing.

00:34:46.000 It's really exciting to see and I want to talk to you about it.

00:34:48.000 So we'll play that real quick.

00:34:51.000 I've spent almost a lifetime in the grappling arts.

00:34:54.000 Started out as a young wrestler when I was 10 years old.

00:34:58.000 Always was in love with the whole concept of wrestling and grappling on the ground.

00:35:03.000 It was just one of the few things I was good at right from the beginning.

00:35:08.000 Jiu Jitsu and surfing in tropical El Salvador.

00:35:11.000 I love it.

00:35:17.000 So for folks who are just listening and not watching, it's just Steve demonstrating a bunch of different jujitsu techniques and now mobility training, which is a big part of what you do to keep healthy and keep your joints healthy and protect yourself from injuries,

00:35:34.000 right?

00:35:34.000 Absolutely.

00:35:36.000 I mean, if you think about it, it's probably the most fun two guys can have without a woman, man. 1.00

00:35:43.000 I mean, it's like wrestling on the living room floor in your pajamas with your brother, right?

00:35:49.000 It's like incredibly fun, great mental stimulation.

00:35:53.000 It's a fun game.

00:35:54.000 Very fun game.

00:35:55.000 As long as you can get over the tapping part, what we were talking about earlier.

00:35:59.000 It's like no one gets angry when someone shoots a ball in on them when you play basketball.

00:36:04.000 And there's the dates there.

00:36:05.000 Let's pull those dates back so we can see what the dates are.

00:36:07.000 Tell everybody where they are.

00:36:09.000 22nd and March.

00:36:11.000 28th of November.

00:36:14.000 Go ahead.

00:36:15.000 It says 28th of November to the 5th of December, and then the 5th of December to the 12th of December in 2015. So this is a start a new tradition, it says.

00:36:25.000 This is a new thing that you're starting to do, and what a great vacation.

00:36:30.000 You know, have some fun, go to El Salvador, do some surfing.

00:36:33.000 You guys have surf lessons.

00:36:35.000 You're going to teach jujitsu, teach...

00:36:38.000 Different ways of increasing your joint flexibility and preventing injuries.

00:36:44.000 Just how to stay with it for a lifetime, man.

00:36:47.000 For guys that want to just stick with what they love doing.

00:36:51.000 You wrote an article about it recently.

00:36:54.000 Most guys, by the time they hit 40, they're not going to be doing it anymore.

00:36:57.000 They're going to have to quit because they're going about it wrong.

00:37:00.000 I was on that path myself.

00:37:02.000 When I was in my mid-40s, I'd be getting up in the morning and it was like, Oh my God, I could barely turn around to back my car out of the garage.

00:37:09.000 And I'm thinking, geez, what is it going to be like in 10 years from now if I'm just in my mid-40s already suffering this pain and stiffness and inflammation?

00:37:18.000 So I started really investigating the different exercise systems, mobility systems.

00:37:24.000 Of course, I've always been interested in diet and experimenting and so forth.

00:37:28.000 And, you know, I've been doing this for a long time.

00:37:30.000 And I discovered a lot of really good things I like to share with people so that you can continue to do what you love so we can all be like Master Elio Gracie and, you know, 95 years old, I mean, getting on the mat and still having fun with it.

00:37:46.000 He was fanatical about his diet, right?

00:37:48.000 He was fanatical about his diet.

00:37:49.000 But, you know, as you get older, you have to be.

00:37:51.000 You've got to be more and more fanatical as the old aging process starts to set in.

00:37:58.000 When I was young, I think I was just less aware of what was going on when I ate bad food.

00:38:03.000 I think I was just less aware.

00:38:04.000 I was like, oh, this tastes good.

00:38:05.000 What a great cheeseburger.

00:38:06.000 It tastes awesome.

00:38:07.000 But I wasn't as conscious about the actual effects, whereas now I'm pretty aware of what kind of state my body's in.

00:38:17.000 It's very frustrating for me if my mind is in a dull place, especially if I have to do interviews early in the morning.

00:38:24.000 I just haven't quite woken up yet and I'm having conversations and the words just aren't coming out that good.

00:38:29.000 They're just clumsy and just frustrating.

00:38:33.000 So I'm pretty aware of when I'm at my optimum state.

00:38:38.000 I really notice now if I eat crappy food.

00:38:41.000 I really notice. 0.54

00:38:42.000 If I have something that's got a lot of bread in it or something that's just unhealthy, deep-fried nonsense.

00:38:52.000 Well, it's two guys that do a lot of traveling.

00:38:56.000 You're doing shows all over the place besides UFCs.

00:39:02.000 Sometimes it is pretty hard, you know, to find good stuff.

00:39:06.000 But I always pack my own stuff.

00:39:08.000 I always have, like, I call it my hobo bag.

00:39:12.000 It's a bag full of stuff I go from, you know, various health food stores or whatever.

00:39:16.000 You know, I load up on, you know...

00:39:18.000 Really good quality stuff.

00:39:20.000 Like what do you pack in the hobo bag?

00:39:22.000 Raw almonds?

00:39:23.000 Yeah, I mean, there's so many paleo places around now.

00:39:25.000 I'm not like a total fanatic about paleo, but they do have some pretty damn good healthy stuff.

00:39:31.000 Different bars and different concoctions that are already sealed in pouches or...

00:39:39.000 You know, different things like that.

00:39:41.000 I'll get a whole bunch of things like that.

00:39:43.000 I love carob pods.

00:39:44.000 Carob is just, like, fantastic.

00:39:46.000 It's like raw carob, right off the tree.

00:39:49.000 And fresh fruit.

00:39:51.000 What does a raw carob bar look like?

00:39:54.000 It's not a bar.

00:39:55.000 It looks like...

00:39:57.000 What do they call them?

00:39:58.000 The Asatia pods or whatever that you see on the ground sometimes.

00:40:02.000 It looks like that?

00:40:03.000 Yeah, yeah, but it's sweet.

00:40:05.000 You just chew it and spit the seeds and it's absolutely delicious.

00:40:09.000 Good fiber.

00:40:11.000 It's known as a blood sugar stabilizer.

00:40:14.000 So that you eat this thing, man, you're not hungry for hours.

00:40:18.000 So when you're on the road, it's just a good way to, you know, keep yourself from getting too hungry.

00:40:23.000 I don't think I've ever seen it before.

00:40:25.000 They're very popular in Australia.

00:40:27.000 I used to get them in, yeah, that's it.

00:40:30.000 Wow.

00:40:30.000 Very popular in Australia.

00:40:31.000 They're delicious, yeah.

00:40:33.000 But when I was living in Redonda Beach area, my girlfriend used to go to this place called Rawsome. 0.86

00:40:41.000 It was like a raw foods place.

00:40:43.000 And they would sell them. 1.00

00:40:44.000 But my god, they were like a fucking arm and a leg, man. 0.99

00:40:47.000 These things were like so crazy expensive. 0.99

00:40:50.000 And one day, I was in Marin County.

00:40:55.000 I can't remember the little town, but anyway, this was back in my camper van days.

00:41:00.000 I go to get out and go to this little coffee shop to get a paper or whatever, and I'm seeing these things in the ground.

00:41:06.000 And I look up, and there's a tree.

00:41:08.000 And it was like hundreds of them just laying there, man.

00:41:12.000 I got some plastic baggies, you know?

00:41:15.000 You were sure that it was that?

00:41:17.000 Well, I tasted it.

00:41:18.000 Oh, wow. 0.99

00:41:18.000 It was like, holy shit, this is carob. 0.99

00:41:21.000 It's a carob tree growing right here. 0.99

00:41:24.000 Pull that video up again, image rather.

00:41:26.000 In Marin County.

00:41:27.000 What does a carob tree look like?

00:41:30.000 I really don't think I've ever seen that.

00:41:32.000 Like, if I looked at that, like that one that looks like a bundle of snakes, that third picture from the top.

00:41:36.000 Yeah, right there on the right.

00:41:40.000 I was just utterly shocked. 0.99

00:41:42.000 Because, you know, I had been paying a lot of money for these damn things. 0.99

00:41:45.000 And there they were, just laying there. 0.99

00:41:48.000 I had no idea that they even grew in California.

00:41:50.000 How long does it last once you get it from the tree?

00:41:53.000 Does it go bad and rot?

00:41:54.000 No, no, no.

00:41:55.000 They're like dried.

00:41:56.000 I mean, they're like a dried pod that you could just keep.

00:41:59.000 For a long time?

00:42:00.000 Probably years, maybe.

00:42:01.000 I don't know.

00:42:02.000 Wow.

00:42:02.000 I mean, they're really tasty.

00:42:04.000 No kidding.

00:42:04.000 Really nice little sweet.

00:42:05.000 You know what?

00:42:06.000 It's like, you know, white sugar, white granulated sugar is probably one of the worst things you can eat.

00:42:12.000 Toxic.

00:42:12.000 Yeah, toxic.

00:42:13.000 Right?

00:42:13.000 But sugar cane actually, you know, right from the cane field, actually has a lot of health benefit.

00:42:20.000 Does it really?

00:42:20.000 Yeah.

00:42:21.000 It's sweet.

00:42:22.000 It is fibrous.

00:42:23.000 It has a lot of nutrients, minerals and so forth.

00:42:26.000 I mean, obviously, you don't eat a lot of it because it's powerful stuff.

00:42:30.000 It's like one of those very powerful foods.

00:42:33.000 But the carob pods are kind of like the same thing.

00:42:37.000 If you do have a bit of a sweet tooth or whatever, it's a fantastic way to sate your sweet tooth.

00:42:45.000 And wow, the fiber is amazing.

00:42:47.000 Really?

00:42:47.000 I really was not aware at all.

00:42:49.000 I always thought of carob as like something that you...

00:42:51.000 Yeah, like the processed stuff, like chocolate.

00:42:54.000 It's just about as bad as chocolate the way they process.

00:42:56.000 Is it really?

00:42:57.000 Yeah.

00:42:58.000 I mean, maybe a little less harsh on your system because a lot of people have chocolate sensitivities.

00:43:03.000 You always hear about gluten or dairy, but man, a lot of people have a lot of sensitivity to chocolate.

00:43:11.000 There's a lot of different things out there that have been overeaten for years and years and years that...

00:43:16.000 It can give you food sensitivities.

00:43:17.000 Well, some chocolate's really good, right?

00:43:19.000 Like raw chocolate is very high in antioxidants.

00:43:21.000 It can be, but some people are very sensitive to the acids and so forth in chocolate.

00:43:26.000 And so there's carob and there's, how do you say it, cacao?

00:43:30.000 Cacao.

00:43:31.000 That's the raw chocolate.

00:43:32.000 That's the raw chocolate.

00:43:33.000 And that stuff is really good for you, right?

00:43:35.000 It can be.

00:43:36.000 But for some people it's not.

00:43:38.000 It's like it's powerful stuff.

00:43:39.000 And if you overeat anything, you're going to develop a potential sensitivity.

00:43:46.000 It's like the gluten, right?

00:43:47.000 I mean, gluten in itself is not all that bad, right?

00:43:50.000 But Americans have been just eating it like crazy, you know? 1.00

00:43:54.000 Toast in the morning.

00:43:56.000 With cereal.

00:43:57.000 Yeah, with cereal.

00:43:59.000 Sandwich for lunch.

00:44:00.000 Pasta for dinner.

00:44:01.000 And dinner rolls, and it's just like they're getting inundated.

00:44:05.000 Well, my God, you could probably develop a food sensitivity to anything.

00:44:10.000 Probably you could get eggs or chicken sensitivity or something if you just ate it, you know, Three square meals a day.

00:44:18.000 Yeah, I'm pretty certain of that.

00:44:19.000 I went for a while, more than six months, where I just didn't touch any gluten.

00:44:25.000 I said, let me see what happens.

00:44:26.000 One thing, I lost weight.

00:44:27.000 I was pretty shocked at how easy it was.

00:44:31.000 My body thinned out, lost body fat, my face got thinner.

00:44:35.000 I carry fat in my face.

00:44:37.000 I'm like one of those dudes. 0.97

00:44:38.000 I carry fat.

00:44:39.000 If I get fat, I get love handles, and I get it in my face.

00:44:42.000 Me too, man.

00:44:43.000 I don't get it in my arms.

00:44:44.000 I don't get it in my legs, but I get it around my belly and my sides, and I get it in my face.

00:44:49.000 And all that went, what?

00:44:50.000 My face shrunk down, and my side...

00:44:52.000 I was like, wow, this is interesting.

00:44:54.000 It is interesting how the fat patterns just shrink up.

00:44:57.000 Yeah.

00:44:57.000 There's three major fat distributions, right?

00:45:00.000 You got your depot fat.

00:45:01.000 That's like the love handles or with women, sometimes it's the saddlebags in the side of the thigh. 1.00

00:45:07.000 Sometimes you see women in the upper back or the tricep area. 1.00

00:45:11.000 With guys, it's usually the belly or the love handles for most guys.

00:45:16.000 Then you have internal fat.

00:45:18.000 That's the dangerous stuff.

00:45:19.000 The intra-abdominal fat, that gut fat, that's what can kill you. 1.00

00:45:23.000 Then you have subcutaneous fat.

00:45:25.000 It's like the smooth fat underneath the skin, like an insulation layer.

00:45:30.000 And then, of course, they've identified the brown fat also.

00:45:33.000 It's like an active fat.

00:45:34.000 It produces heat in the body.

00:45:36.000 It's like part of the survival mechanism.

00:45:39.000 Back when our ancestors had to tolerate a lot of extremes in temperatures, like cold, you have this brown fat that's like a metabolic active fat.

00:45:49.000 Kids have it, but by the time you're like 12, it almost disappears because we have this regulated temperatures all the time.

00:45:57.000 People don't expose themselves to cold.

00:45:59.000 They're always bundling up and their homes are overheated.

00:46:03.000 But what a lot of people are saying now, you can actually get that metabolically active fat, the brown fat cells going, which helps keep you lean and helps burn the other yellow fat.

00:46:17.000 So cold showers, cold water treatments, exposing yourself to cold, a really good thing for developing that brown fat. 1.00

00:46:25.000 And it builds your immune system, and you have a much better tolerance to cold, and much less likely to get innervated in cold weather, so you don't have a tendency to come down with colds or flu and stuff like that.

00:46:37.000 Really?

00:46:37.000 Brown fat?

00:46:38.000 Yeah, brown fat.

00:46:39.000 I'd never heard of that before.

00:46:40.000 And what is it created by?

00:46:42.000 Like, what...

00:46:44.000 Some of it's in the peritoneal cavity.

00:46:46.000 Some of it's up in the neck area.

00:46:50.000 And it's just something that nature provided to help temperature regulation, help you tolerate cold.

00:46:57.000 So is that like more common with Inuits and folks who live in... 0.96

00:47:00.000 Oh yeah, for sure.

00:47:01.000 They have well-developed brown fat.

00:47:03.000 But you and I could do it too if we just exposed ourselves a little bit more to the cold.

00:47:07.000 Have you done any cryotherapy?

00:47:09.000 Have you done any of that?

00:47:10.000 Not like the way it's been used.

00:47:13.000 How long are you in town for?

00:47:15.000 Let's see.

00:47:16.000 I'm going down to San Diego.

00:47:17.000 I'm the keynote speaker for that Strength Matter Summit.

00:47:20.000 That's 20th through the 22nd, March in San Diego.

00:47:25.000 So what's the 17th, 16th?

00:47:27.000 I've got to take you to this place in LA. Okay.

00:47:29.000 It's called Cryo Healthcare.

00:47:30.000 I've got to bring you down there.

00:47:31.000 I love cold...

00:47:32.000 This is insane.

00:47:34.000 250 degrees below zero.

00:47:35.000 You go into a meat locker.

00:47:37.000 I mean, it is crazy.

00:47:38.000 You put on a surgical mask, you put on earmuffs, you wear socks that go up to your knee-high socks, and those rubber Crocs, because you don't want to stand on the floor.

00:47:49.000 And you also wear gloves.

00:47:51.000 And you wear underwear, very important, ladies and gentlemen.

00:47:53.000 And you don't want to have any moisture in your body.

00:47:55.000 You don't want to go there sweaty.

00:47:57.000 Yeah, you go there for three minutes.

00:47:59.000 Three minutes at 250 degrees below zero. 0.99

00:48:02.000 And it is cold as fuck. 0.99

00:48:05.000 And all I do is I just concentrate on staying calm. 0.99

00:48:08.000 And breathing.

00:48:09.000 And I breathe and I count.

00:48:10.000 And that's what I do.

00:48:11.000 I go one, two, three.

00:48:13.000 And I try to count slower than a minute.

00:48:15.000 So they give you a timer.

00:48:17.000 You have one minute remaining.

00:48:19.000 So when I count that minute down, I always want to make sure that I'm not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. I'm counting slower than the actual seconds.

00:48:27.000 Do you build up?

00:48:28.000 Do you maybe start 30 seconds and build up each time?

00:48:30.000 You can.

00:48:31.000 I did.

00:48:32.000 I was just curious.

00:48:32.000 The first time they did it, they put me in for two minutes, and they go, well, the first time, you want to try it.

00:48:37.000 You know, don't go in too long, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:48:40.000 And I go, okay.

00:48:41.000 What's the longest I could do it?

00:48:42.000 And they said, three minutes.

00:48:44.000 So I said, all right, well, I'll try your two minutes.

00:48:45.000 I tried two minutes.

00:48:46.000 I think it'll last another minute.

00:48:47.000 I go, let's try another minute.

00:48:49.000 So then I went in again, and I did three minutes.

00:48:51.000 Now what I do is I do three minutes.

00:48:53.000 I take maybe five, six minutes off, and I get on an elliptical machine and warm up, and then I go back in for another three minutes.

00:49:02.000 It's amazing.

00:49:03.000 It's amazing.

00:49:04.000 Well, for years, I did the dowsing.

00:49:07.000 It's a Russian bucket treatment. 0.90

00:49:09.000 Oh, ice bucket challenge.

00:49:11.000 Yeah.

00:49:11.000 Well, it's funny because I had been doing this years and years before.

00:49:15.000 When I lived in Philly, I had a backyard that was pretty much secluded with a big wall.

00:49:19.000 So I could basically, you know, strip down naked in my backyard and my neighbors couldn't see me.

00:49:24.000 And in the back corner, I had this big spigot and I had a five-gallon bucket.

00:49:28.000 And all year long, I would go and very slowly...

00:49:32.000 I pour a five-gallon bucket, starting with the abdomen, up over the head and down the back.

00:49:38.000 And the Russians that had taught me this said that it creates like this artificial flash fever.

00:49:44.000 It's not quite the same thing with the shower, which is more prolonged.

00:49:48.000 Because you're dowsing yourself with a sudden immersion, it's kind of like plunging into like a cold lake.

00:49:55.000 It supposedly burns up any bacteria or germs or whatever in your body.

00:50:00.000 All I know is that for the years I did it in Philadelphia, 15 years, when I was a householder, I didn't get a cold.

00:50:09.000 Really?

00:50:09.000 I did not get a cold.

00:50:11.000 People around me would have flu, they'd be sick, and my immune system was, like, amazing.

00:50:19.000 Well, the benefits of this cryotherapy, as it's been explained to me, and if you go to cryohealthcare.com, I think it is.

00:50:28.000 I forget the website, but the name of the place in LA is Cryo Health Care.

00:50:32.000 There's a bunch of different styles of these cryo machines.

00:50:35.000 One of them is from the neck down.

00:50:37.000 You stand in, and your head is outside, and you don't have to put anything on your face.

00:50:41.000 I don't find that one to be as effective.

00:50:43.000 It's good.

00:50:44.000 It's certainly better than nothing.

00:50:45.000 But the one we step into the meat locker... 1.00

00:50:48.000 God, that's a motherfucker. 1.00

00:50:49.000 They're going to have one of those down the street in Woodland Hills, down the road a bit. 1.00

00:50:53.000 They're going to be putting out one of those within the next month or so.

00:50:57.000 Well, that would certainly stimulate brown fat growth, I would think.

00:51:01.000 See, the meat locker one is the one on the left.

00:51:04.000 See, they have that one.

00:51:05.000 That one's fairly common, kind of nationwide. 1.00

00:51:07.000 That one, the one that you see on the left, the meat locker, that's the motherfucker. 1.00

00:51:10.000 I like that one, man. 0.99

00:51:12.000 It's actually claustrophobic in that one, right?

00:51:15.000 No, it's not claustrophobic.

00:51:16.000 You can open the door easy.

00:51:18.000 Yeah, the little one just looks like, I don't know, man.

00:51:21.000 No, the little one's easy.

00:51:22.000 The little one's so easy.

00:51:24.000 The little one's hard if you've never done it before.

00:51:26.000 You go, oh, Jesus.

00:51:27.000 But if you've done it, the big one is, like the little one, that's that one right there.

00:51:33.000 You just kind of...

00:51:34.000 You climb out of it, you're fine.

00:51:35.000 But the big one has this amazing effect.

00:51:38.000 You get out of there, you feel like you could jump over buildings.

00:51:41.000 You're like, whoa!

00:51:43.000 Once your body realizes that you're not going to die, no one has dropped you in the top of the moon, and it's on really 250 degrees below zero.

00:51:52.000 That's literally the surface of the moon, is 250 degrees below zero.

00:51:55.000 No kidding.

00:51:56.000 Yeah, in the dark.

00:51:57.000 Wow.

00:51:57.000 The moon varies from like 250 degrees to 250 degrees below zero, depending on whether or not the sun is hitting you or whether or not you're in the shade.

00:52:05.000 Well, that's like how all these things work, even training, right?

00:52:08.000 You know, your body, if training's done properly, your body perceives it as a threat to its survival.

00:52:13.000 You know, you basically are tapping into your survival mechanism with these things.

00:52:18.000 And your body in its wisdom will say, hey, I'm not quite up to snuff here.

00:52:23.000 I better adapt and get stronger so I don't die.

00:52:27.000 And that's training too, weight training or anything.

00:52:30.000 You know, you have to make it stimulating enough and difficult enough to tap into that survival mechanism.

00:52:37.000 So that if you're not, you're not getting the benefit of the training, or in this case, the cryotherapy.

00:52:44.000 So your body, you know, like an adaptation response.

00:52:47.000 Well, there's this new system that they've developed in Japan.

00:52:52.000 It's called Katsu.

00:52:53.000 And I don't know the gentleman's name who created it, but I had a chance to try it out this weekend in Austin.

00:52:59.000 And what it essentially is, is like these, they take these straps and they constrict your bicep, like right below the delts.

00:53:09.000 And then you go through like a 15 minute routine.

00:53:13.000 Like 15 minutes of, you do curls, you start off, you do push-ups, you do curls with a kettlebell to failure, and all this is while your blood flow is restricted.

00:53:22.000 And then you do like ropes.

00:53:24.000 And you do sets of three for 15 minutes. 1.00

00:53:27.000 By the end of the 15 minutes, your fucking arms are dead. 1.00

00:53:29.000 Dead. 0.99

00:53:30.000 I mean dead because you're restricting the blood flow and then they release it and take it off and Apparently the response that your body has to the fact that your blood flow is restricted it triggers all sorts of responses as far as your growth hormone your testosterone all these different your body starts trying to compensate for the fact that it doesn't have enough blood flow so it just over ramps everything up and it's apparently fantastic for healing It's fantastic for people that have injuries.

00:54:00.000 Recovery time from injuries reduces drastically.

00:54:04.000 Like Bodie Miller, the Olympic skier, he used it to get back in shape from surgery much quicker than he would have without it.

00:54:14.000 It's just one of these new methods, much like this cryo thing, much like many of these other protocols, where they're trying to figure out ways to kind of trick your body into ramping up the healing process or ramping up the...

00:54:26.000 So it's used for healing, not for strength training, per se.

00:54:28.000 For both.

00:54:29.000 For both.

00:54:29.000 I'd just be curious.

00:54:30.000 It'd be interesting to see how it compares to this traditional strength training as far as, you know, actual general strength.

00:54:37.000 Yeah, and the idea also is that it puts a strong load on your muscles, but not on your joints.

00:54:43.000 Because everything you're doing, like say if you're doing like kettlebell curls to failure, I was doing it with like a 35-pound kettlebell with two hands.

00:54:51.000 That's not a lot of weight, you know?

00:54:52.000 It's not a lot of weight, and you're just cranking out reps.

00:54:55.000 But because your biceps are tied off at the top...

00:54:59.000 So you're just getting that blood all pumped and trapped up into the muscles.

00:55:03.000 Because the flow is restricted, I get it.

00:55:05.000 Yeah, they look giant.

00:55:07.000 Sounds painful, man.

00:55:08.000 Yeah, it's painful.

00:55:09.000 It's painful. 0.99

00:55:10.000 But I just fucked around with it yesterday for the first time, and apparently the results are amazing. 0.93

00:55:15.000 And at Onnit, we're starting to look into this and trying to see what we can do to bring this To the mainstream, but to try to get more athletes involved in doing things like this, you kind of get these results where you start going, oh, okay, well, if you do that and this, 0.69

00:55:32.000 what if you do cryotherapy and this Katsu method and also the breathing?

00:55:37.000 Also, what's the difference in the response to your body?

00:55:42.000 What's the difference in how quickly you can heal, how quickly you can get in shape?

00:55:46.000 That's a big issue for MMA fighters is the downtime from injury and then ramping your body back up to competition shape afterwards.

00:55:54.000 Anybody who's ever gotten to a very good fitness level and then got injured, it's so frustrating getting back to the gym and then trying to get back in shape.

00:56:03.000 And a lot of guys never do get back because it's just such a hard road to come back on.

00:56:11.000 It's hard for people to accept the state that they're in.

00:56:15.000 You know, like especially, that's one of the issues with younger athletes. 0.99

00:56:19.000 You know, you're young, you're 20, your body heals quick, you're just a wild motherfucker, and you're doing anything you want. 0.99

00:56:25.000 You're reckless. 0.99

00:56:25.000 And as you get older, it's one of the things that I liked about your article that you wrote, you have to be smarter. 0.99

00:56:30.000 You have to be smarter.

00:56:31.000 You have to recognize that your body is going to take longer to heal.

00:56:34.000 You can't be reckless with it.

00:56:35.000 And also, you really probably shouldn't have been reckless with it when you were 20, but you could get away with it to a certain extent.

00:56:42.000 Now that you're older, you have to be wiser.

00:56:44.000 Well, you know, everyone thinks they're bulletproof and they're going to last forever.

00:56:47.000 You know, you just can't even imagine.

00:56:49.000 I can remember going to a wrestling tournament.

00:56:51.000 It was in York, Pennsylvania.

00:56:53.000 It was like I used to do the summer freestyle wrestling circuit.

00:56:57.000 They used to have tournaments all over Pennsylvania.

00:56:59.000 And I remember meeting a guy that was like 33 years old.

00:57:03.000 And I was just blown away.

00:57:06.000 My God, you're still wrestling.

00:57:08.000 You're 33. Oh man, you're my new hero.

00:57:10.000 I can't believe it.

00:57:11.000 I want to be just like you when I'm 30. I just couldn't believe.

00:57:14.000 I thought this guy was like ancient.

00:57:16.000 You know, I was probably like 19 at the time, you know.

00:57:19.000 I could not believe that this guy was in there wrestling as well as he did at 33. Isn't that funny now?

00:57:25.000 You'd do anything to have a 33-year-old body.

00:57:27.000 Dude, man.

00:57:28.000 42-year-old.

00:57:30.000 I was still fantastic.

00:57:33.000 Still feeling great.

00:57:35.000 As my grandfather said, no one gets out of here alive.

00:57:41.000 Father time will...

00:57:43.000 Take its toll over time, no matter what you do, no matter how many therapies and so forth, you know.

00:57:48.000 But you try to do your best with what you got, and you do try to preserve your youth and your vitality.

00:57:54.000 But one of the major problems I see, especially in extremist sports, like jujitsu or MMA or whatever, is the overtraining.

00:58:03.000 Everyone thinks more is better.

00:58:05.000 And it's not.

00:58:07.000 Better is better, but more is not better.

00:58:09.000 That's a huge issue with wrestling.

00:58:10.000 Oh, terrible.

00:58:12.000 Wrestlers are notoriously the most overtrained group of athletes there are, I think.

00:58:18.000 But isn't that training with the overtraining, doesn't that develop this insane mental toughness that wrestlers are known for?

00:58:24.000 Well, that's part of it.

00:58:25.000 The mental toughness is a huge part of it, because that is a hard-ass sport.

00:58:30.000 Did you happen to see the Foxcatcher, the movie?

00:58:35.000 Yes, I did.

00:58:36.000 That wasn't exactly accurate, by the way.

00:58:38.000 At all.

00:58:39.000 No.

00:58:39.000 Mark Schultz put up actually a thing on his Facebook page, all the inaccuracies that are in that movie, and they're pretty substantial.

00:58:46.000 Pretty substantial.

00:58:46.000 Yeah, it's actually frustrating and annoying.

00:58:49.000 The guy's alive, he's an Olympic gold medalist, world champion, one of the best wrestlers really pretty much ever.

00:58:56.000 Ever.

00:58:57.000 And they betrayed him in a very inaccurate light.

00:59:00.000 Pretty much so. 0.99

00:59:01.000 Yeah, I mean, they made him look like a dumb jock. 0.99

00:59:03.000 The guy's brilliant. 0.99

00:59:04.000 The guy was brilliant.

00:59:05.000 And very articulate, very smart guy.

00:59:08.000 And my college wrestling coach...

00:59:11.000 Was the junior coach there, Fox Kedger.

00:59:13.000 Ooh.

00:59:14.000 Yeah.

00:59:15.000 Dale Bonsal.

00:59:15.000 He's in the college...

00:59:17.000 So he was there when all that was going on?

00:59:18.000 He's the NCAA Coaches Hall of Fame.

00:59:21.000 So this was after you were in college?

00:59:23.000 This is after I had graduated from college.

00:59:25.000 I was still living in Philly.

00:59:27.000 And, you know, Dale used to invite me to come on down and...

00:59:33.000 We're good to go.

00:59:37.000 We're good to go.

00:59:46.000 We're good to go.

00:59:47.000 You know, Jones for some grappling experience, but it was really hard working a job, and at that time I was married and a householder with a family and all that.

00:59:55.000 But I did go down a few times, and I got a chance to tour the facility, and it was really impressive.

01:00:00.000 And I had a clinic with, well, the guy they didn't even mention was that guy, Valentin Jordan, the Bulgarian guy.

01:00:08.000 That's the guy that DuPont gave his whole fortune to.

01:00:12.000 When he died, his fortune went to this Bulgarian coach.

01:00:17.000 Really?

01:00:17.000 Yeah.

01:00:18.000 The family's still fighting it.

01:00:19.000 They're still contesting it to this day.

01:00:22.000 Wow.

01:00:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:00:23.000 He really liked this guy.

01:00:25.000 And so I had a couple clinics with that guy.

01:00:28.000 One at Drexel.

01:00:29.000 Because, you know, he was making his way around the different colleges.

01:00:32.000 And learned a lot of awesome exercises and conditioning and wrestling.

01:00:37.000 And, of course, I met the great Dave Schultz.

01:00:39.000 I had a clinic with him.

01:00:40.000 I was like, wow.

01:00:41.000 He was definitely one of America's finest wrestlers ever.

01:00:46.000 But even more than his physical skills was his mental skills.

01:00:50.000 He just had an amazing mind.

01:00:53.000 And I was really fortunate to have, you know, been able to travel in those type of circles and get a chance to see it.

01:00:59.000 But this is after my college wrestling days, so I was looking for that thing to fill the gap, you know?

01:01:05.000 And that's when I discovered those Gracie brothers, you know, around 1989, man. 0.97

01:01:11.000 It was like, oh, shit, this is what I've been looking for, man. 0.90

01:01:14.000 What is it about the Bulgarians and a lot of the Russians and, you know, there's a lot of those people from that part of the world that are such good athletes. 0.99

01:01:23.000 There's so many tough people from that part of the world.

01:01:26.000 Like, what is that?

01:01:27.000 Well, you know, a lot of our best fighters come from, you know, the poorer sections of America, you know.

01:01:33.000 Kids come up in the projects and, you know, some of these inner city kids, you know.

01:01:37.000 You know, look at, like in Philly or Detroit, or, man, you get some tough kids that grew up scrapping.

01:01:45.000 And it builds a mental toughness sometimes, you know?

01:01:48.000 Like Mike Tyson, growing up where he did, in Hell's Kitchen up there in New York.

01:01:55.000 Or Brownsville, actually.

01:01:56.000 Or Brownsville, yeah.

01:01:57.000 So, I mean, those guys are just, you know, they grow up in a really tough neighborhood, kind of like dog-eat-dog, and it produces like a really tough, kind of-minded I think a lot of these Eastern European countries, they don't have much.

01:02:12.000 They have a lot of time on their hands.

01:02:17.000 There's not a lot to do for the kids.

01:02:19.000 They end up, like most boys, getting into trouble and fighting and doing all this kind of crazy stuff.

01:02:25.000 I think that's one of the reasons why this new urban playground gymnastics kind of stuff that the guys are doing has become so popular.

01:02:33.000 You know, that's pretty available.

01:02:35.000 It's just equipment just sitting there.

01:02:37.000 It costs very little to put it in.

01:02:39.000 Did we play that video of you there last time we were here?

01:02:41.000 Yeah, with the bar stars.

01:02:44.000 Yeah, that was pretty cool.

01:02:45.000 Yeah, that was pretty cool, man.

01:02:46.000 But in Eastern Europe, that stuff's really popular, you know?

01:02:50.000 And...

01:02:51.000 So, yeah, they don't have a lot to do.

01:02:54.000 They don't have the same kind of basketball courts that we do, and they don't have the facilities a lot of times.

01:03:01.000 But wrestling is pretty cheap, man.

01:03:03.000 You know, it doesn't take a lot of equipment.

01:03:05.000 Right.

01:03:06.000 It's not just wrestling, really.

01:03:08.000 There's a lot of boxers right now that are coming out of that part of the world as well.

01:03:11.000 Sure.

01:03:11.000 I mean, Sergei Kovalev, have you seen him fight before?

01:03:15.000 I have not.

01:03:15.000 I've heard the name, but I haven't had the opportunity to actually see him.

01:03:19.000 He's a motherfucker, man. 0.99

01:03:20.000 He beat Bernard Hopkins, and then he just beat Jean Pascal the other night. 1.00

01:03:26.000 Man, it's amazing.

01:03:27.000 Such a good fighter.

01:03:29.000 The way he moves, I mean, he really makes boxing exciting again.

01:03:32.000 He's a killer. 0.99

01:03:33.000 Just goes for the kill. 1.00

01:03:34.000 Like, constantly, but super technical.

01:03:37.000 Like, everything about his movement is very technical.

01:03:39.000 His footwork, his distancing, the economy of his movements, the way he throws punches, just beautiful, beautiful to watch.

01:03:46.000 But there's so many tough guys.

01:03:49.000 Gennady Golovkin, all these tough, tough guys coming out of Russia, of that area, you know, that part of the world, the former Soviet Union.

01:03:57.000 Well, I've traveled, like, into Siberia.

01:04:00.000 I've traveled to, like, you know, down around the Black Sea area.

01:04:04.000 I've been to a lot of the Slavic countries, too, you know, Serbia and Slovenia.

01:04:08.000 Man, the guys are huge, big, strapping guys.

01:04:12.000 And you just don't see the obesity, either, man.

01:04:15.000 They don't have the food to just, you know, they can't afford just to overeat like we do in America or, you know, in the rest of Europe or the UK or whatever.

01:04:26.000 You see some, you know, some real fatties.

01:04:28.000 But man, when you're there, wow, people are pretty lean and wiry and stringy.

01:04:32.000 And a lot of the younger guys are just like specimens.

01:04:36.000 I don't know whether it's genetics or...

01:04:38.000 It has to be.

01:04:39.000 I mean, you think about the people that have lived and gotten through those harsh climates and tough jobs and just had to work their whole life.

01:04:45.000 Survival wasn't fitted.

01:04:46.000 Yeah.

01:04:46.000 And those are the people that bred and those are the people that kept going.

01:04:50.000 What you notice also about a lot of those people from that part of the world, which is interesting enough, is not just that they're tough, but that they're very technical.

01:04:58.000 There's a lot of really technical wrestling that comes out of Russia and out of the former Soviet Union, that area.

01:05:05.000 Those guys, those Russian nationals that went up to Montreal, that's a lot of where George St. Pierre learned how to wrestle.

01:05:11.000 Never wrestled in high school, never wrestled in college, but became one of the best wrestlers in MMA, and that's part of the reason why.

01:05:18.000 I remember I wrestled, this was in the 70s, I wrestled in the Montreal Open Wrestling Tournament.

01:05:24.000 And this was just at that time when the Russians were making a big influx and they were starting to try to defect and flee to the Western world.

01:05:35.000 The Soviet Union still existed.

01:05:37.000 And I remember I wrestled Viktor Silberman. 0.99

01:05:40.000 In the finals and got my ass handed to me, man. 0.93

01:05:42.000 And so I was trying to talk to him later because I was really impressed with this guy's technique and his skill and everything. 0.99

01:05:48.000 And I was utterly shocked when he told me that he only lifted weights once a week.

01:05:53.000 He lifted weights four times a month.

01:05:55.000 And I thought, how is that even possible?

01:05:57.000 I thought these Russian guys, like, lifted weights every day, twice a day.

01:06:01.000 And he says, no, no, no, no.

01:06:03.000 We practice technical wrestling as the base of our training.

01:06:07.000 And then I was utterly shocked.

01:06:10.000 I had a guy that was training with me in Philly for a while.

01:06:13.000 He was a five-time Ukrainian national wrestling champion.

01:06:16.000 He used to be on the national team.

01:06:19.000 This was back when the Ukraine and Russia was all part of the Soviet Union.

01:06:23.000 And he was telling me that they would only spar really hardly twice a week because they found that the live wrestling was what was producing all the injuries.

01:06:31.000 But when they would train, they would train like real slow motion and they would gradually build their speed to the point where they were just going all out hard.

01:06:39.000 And they would just do this for long periods of time.

01:06:42.000 And wow, it is amazing.

01:06:43.000 It's an unbelievably hard workout when you're shooting high crotch singles, doubles, and so forth at match speed over and over and over and over. 1.00

01:06:53.000 It's like, holy shit. 0.99

01:06:54.000 And that was their main cardio. 0.99

01:06:56.000 It takes real discipline to do that though.

01:06:58.000 It takes discipline, man.

01:06:59.000 Most people, in jujitsu as well, it's very similar.

01:07:01.000 A lot of guys just want to roll.

01:07:03.000 Just want to roll.

01:07:04.000 They don't want to go over drills.

01:07:05.000 But they never get technical.

01:07:06.000 That's the problem.

01:07:07.000 That is the problem.

01:07:08.000 Yeah, drills are where you really learn how to have those movements become a part of your nervous system.

01:07:14.000 And keeping the sparring limited, your muscles and joints are stressed, and you don't get the injuries.

01:07:24.000 But I was very surprised to hear that.

01:07:26.000 You know, because I had a complete different perception.

01:07:30.000 Because in American wrestling, you just basically pound each other every time you go into the wrestling room.

01:07:34.000 You know, it's just...

01:07:37.000 Yeah, that is the problem.

01:07:41.000 Americans produce amazingly tough wrestlers. 0.84

01:07:43.000 But the reason I think why we're not seeing Americans dominating the international scene anymore is like there's no damn money in it, man.

01:07:52.000 You graduate from college and maybe you have a degree or whatever, but what are you going to do with your wrestling skills?

01:07:58.000 MMA! The UFC opened up a whole new door for former NCAA wrestlers.

01:08:07.000 Why the hell would you go to the Olympics and make peanuts when you can make fairly decent money?

01:08:14.000 Possibly, if you're good, you know, if you're a tough guy in the UFC. Yeah, that's what I wanted to know.

01:08:19.000 Do the Russians have that same issue with overtraining?

01:08:24.000 No, no, because they don't spar as much as the Americans do.

01:08:29.000 They're very careful not to overtrain.

01:08:31.000 They have, like, blocks where they kind of, you know...

01:08:35.000 They kind of ramp up the training as they get near and near, like, World Championships or the Olympics or whatever.

01:08:40.000 Some people call it periodization or whatever, but they're very careful not to, you know, overtrain and overdo it.

01:08:47.000 Well, they're known for their mental toughness as well.

01:08:50.000 Like, why don't the American wrestlers incorporate that into their workouts, or have they started to do that?

01:08:55.000 Well, I think they probably are.

01:08:56.000 You know, I've lost a little bit of touch with the wrestling community, but, you know, our wrestling coaches are fantastic.

01:09:01.000 You know, they're smart guys, so I'm sure they're taking a hard look, because the Russians have been really successful, as have the Iranians, as the Turks, the Bulgarians, you know, all these countries that perennially put out, like, world champions.

01:09:15.000 Azerbaijan, you know. 0.97

01:09:17.000 The Mongolians are really starting to dominate Judo, and, you know, they've always been tough as shit in wrestling. 1.00

01:09:23.000 So, I think that for sure you can learn a lot from their basic programs. 0.96

01:09:29.000 They're pretty simple programs, really.

01:09:31.000 They don't have a lot of sophisticated equipment and so forth, but they make up for a lack of sophistication with equipment and facilities and all that with technique.

01:09:44.000 They're real technicians.

01:09:46.000 That is the most important part of any martial art.

01:09:48.000 The most important part is having that technique down to just a razor sharpness.

01:09:53.000 A razor sharpness, man.

01:09:54.000 You've got to hone those skills because, you know, MMA, jiu-jitsu, judo, wrestling, it's all technique.

01:10:01.000 I really wish you'd watched this past weekend, this UFC, because...

01:10:06.000 I'm going to have to catch it on the replay now.

01:10:08.000 You've got to watch Anthony Pettis vs.

01:10:09.000 Rafael Dos Anjos.

01:10:10.000 That must have been a hell of a match.

01:10:12.000 Ooh! 0.96

01:10:12.000 Dos Anjos beat the brakes off of Pettis. 0.96

01:10:15.000 Is it up on the internet yet?

01:10:17.000 I don't believe so.

01:10:18.000 How long do they wait before they're loaded up?

01:10:21.000 I mean, what site do you go to?

01:10:24.000 UFC Fight Pass?

01:10:26.000 I don't know.

01:10:26.000 I don't believe it's up yet.

01:10:28.000 I'll check.

01:10:29.000 I don't think it is.

01:10:30.000 I mean, I know it's on pay-per-view.

01:10:31.000 It might be available on Fight Pass.

01:10:33.000 Yeah, I was just curious how long, but I'll definitely give it a check.

01:10:36.000 Fight Pass has pretty much everything.

01:10:39.000 But I don't know how...

01:10:40.000 I think they do show some pay-per-views.

01:10:44.000 They have live events.

01:10:46.000 Hey, why don't you bring their clip up?

01:10:48.000 I'm going to run the men's record real quick.

01:10:49.000 I'll be right back in just one second.

01:10:50.000 Go ahead.

01:10:51.000 I'll try to find it.

01:10:51.000 We'll see if we can find some highlights of it, but what I'm going to ask Steve about it after he gets done using the little girl's room.

01:11:00.000 What was incredibly impressive was not just the skill level that Dos Anjos showed, but the pace and the fitness.

01:11:09.000 He doesn't want to toot his own horn, so I'll toot it while he's out of the room.

01:11:12.000 He's so knowledgeable, and he got Diego Sanchez into probably the best shape of his life when Diego challenged BJ Penn for the belt, and Diego wound up getting beaten pretty badly by BJ when BJ was in his prime.

01:11:28.000 BJ's like an all-time great.

01:11:30.000 And just one of my all-time favorite fighters.

01:11:33.000 But he was in incredible shape for this fight as well, which was always like kind of his Achilles heel.

01:11:40.000 He was so talented, but he just never really...

01:11:44.000 He was able to continue that sort of strength and conditioning program that got him into the shape that he was when he fought Diego Sanchez.

01:11:52.000 And what we were talking about with Steve being that the technique is so important.

01:11:58.000 It is so incredibly important, but MMA is so unbelievably grueling.

01:12:04.000 I had a conversation with Chael Sonnen about it, who's a former UFC fighter and fought for the title several times, a great fighter and also a very open guy, very open as far as his own limitations and his strengths and weaknesses.

01:12:20.000 And he was just talking about how the time that you spend inside the Octagon, competing for 25 minutes, is almost impossible to really do.

01:12:31.000 It's almost too much time.

01:12:33.000 What I was saying was that...

01:12:35.000 Steve's back.

01:12:37.000 What I was saying that the amount of time that you spend in the octagon fighting in a championship fight is so insane.

01:12:43.000 It's almost like you're sprinting for 25 minutes.

01:12:46.000 It's brutal.

01:12:47.000 And very few people figure out how to get in the right shape as well as work their skills.

01:12:55.000 It's so hard, man, because endurance is a skill.

01:13:00.000 But then there's also the skill of making the other guy use up his energy more than yourself.

01:13:06.000 And, I mean, controlling and managing your energy system in the ring and on the mat is such a skill unto itself.

01:13:18.000 I mean, let's just take out the striking skills and the grappling skills and all that stuff.

01:13:23.000 Just that energy management, that's huge, man.

01:13:27.000 And a lot of guys don't pay enough attention to that.

01:13:30.000 Well, dealing with pressure is a big one.

01:13:33.000 I remember from my days of competing that when guys were really aggressive and I was backing up a lot, trying to move away, I'd get so much more tired because you're always thinking.

01:13:42.000 You're dealing with this guy attacking you and you're backing up, which is kind of an unnatural movement.

01:13:47.000 I mean, a lot of people run, but very few people run backwards.

01:13:50.000 And you've got to realize that when you're going backwards, you're kind of using your muscles in a different way.

01:13:55.000 Way different.

01:13:56.000 Yeah.

01:13:56.000 Exhausting, man.

01:13:57.000 Yeah, and very few people do that.

01:13:59.000 Muhammad Ali used to run miles backwards because he was always backing up and then moving forward, backing up and moving forward.

01:14:06.000 And one of the most beautiful things about him when you watch him, like in his prime, like the Cleveland Big Cat Williams days, before they took his title away because he didn't want to fight in the Vietnam War, His footwork and movement was just magical.

01:14:19.000 And his ability to back up.

01:14:20.000 I mean, you really couldn't catch him.

01:14:22.000 He was just backing up and moving forward, backing up and moving forward.

01:14:25.000 And that's something he had to work at really hard.

01:14:29.000 But three minutes in a boxing match is so much different than five minutes with wrestling and leg kicks and elbows and the clench.

01:14:38.000 God, it's...

01:14:40.000 I'm curious to see what you think after you watch this fight, because one of the most impressive things about the fight, as far as Dos Anjos' performance, was his cardio was insane!

01:14:50.000 Yeah, some of these guys are just like something else, man.

01:14:53.000 I mean, he just attacked from the moment the fight started.

01:14:57.000 He just went after Pettis and just never let up.

01:15:01.000 Like, literally never let up.

01:15:02.000 It was amazing.

01:15:03.000 It really was amazing.

01:15:05.000 Here's maybe a sore point, but what do you think about the use of the performance-enhancing stimulants to mask fatigue and so forth?

01:15:18.000 Like which kinds?

01:15:19.000 Oh, I don't know.

01:15:20.000 There's so many different ones these days.

01:15:23.000 I'm just curious.

01:15:24.000 Are they testing for this stuff now?

01:15:26.000 Are these guys using various stimulants to keep them pretty much hopped up?

01:15:34.000 Well, they're testing for everything.

01:15:36.000 So guys are getting popped for a lot of different stuff.

01:15:39.000 Hector Lombard...

01:15:41.000 This is strict testing now?

01:15:42.000 Oh, yeah.

01:15:43.000 Especially California.

01:15:45.000 I mean, I've given this guy credit, but I want to give him credit again.

01:15:47.000 Andy Foster's been the director of the California State Athletic Commission for a few, I think a couple of years now.

01:15:53.000 But he's a former fighter, a longtime martial artist, and he's very smart, very diligent about this.

01:15:59.000 And I've had some...

01:16:00.000 I had a conversation with him when the UFC was in Los Angeles, and one of the things that he said, he goes, first of all, we're going to test everybody tonight.

01:16:07.000 We're not just testing the guys at the main event.

01:16:10.000 We're not just testing the people that are involved in the pay-per-view.

01:16:14.000 We're testing everyone that competes tonight, blood and urine.

01:16:18.000 Wow.

01:16:19.000 Urine before the fight, blood after the fight.

01:16:21.000 Fantastic.

01:16:21.000 That's a beautiful thing.

01:16:22.000 It's so huge.

01:16:23.000 I wish they'd do that for regular jiu-jitsu, although it's probably cost prohibitive.

01:16:27.000 It's very cost prohibitive.

01:16:28.000 It's like $40,000.

01:16:30.000 I mean, depending on what lab you go to, I'm sure the results vary or the price varies.

01:16:34.000 Well, at least the place winners, you know, the first.

01:16:37.000 Yeah, sure.

01:16:38.000 Anyone on the podium needs to be tested, man.

01:16:40.000 Yeah, for jiu-jitsu, I agree.

01:16:42.000 Well, jiu-jitsu does have a real epidemic in it.

01:16:44.000 It's a real issue.

01:16:45.000 And unfortunately, a lot of jiu-jitsu guys that have come over to MMA have pissed hot, too.

01:16:50.000 Yeah.

01:16:51.000 But it's because strength is such a critical factor in forcing positions.

01:16:56.000 I mean, technique is everything, for sure.

01:16:59.000 Strength endurance man. 0.97

01:17:00.000 It's goddamn huge and there's some guys we all know some guys you try to hit Singles on them you try to like try to do an arm drag and it's like trying to pull a wall You know some dudes like look at who some are Paul Harris is a perfect example that damn dude is so strong He's so ridiculously strong. 0.97

01:17:17.000 Do you see guys like John Fitch tangle up with them? 0.98

01:17:20.000 I mean John Fitch is an elite wrestler elite Took him down and cranked on his leg in the first round.

01:17:26.000 I mean, John never got out of the round.

01:17:28.000 He just couldn't get out of the round.

01:17:29.000 All of a sudden, he's leg locked and just didn't know what to do and got his leg hyperextended.

01:17:34.000 But these performance-enhancing drugs they're catching guys for, some of them I've never even heard of.

01:17:40.000 Oh, they're getting so sophisticated and stuff now.

01:17:42.000 There's so many new cocktails that fall kind of just within the...

01:17:49.000 You know, borders of legality, you know, because people are always discovering some new way to hop up or, you know.

01:17:56.000 I was just curious what your take, you know, because you're around these guys all the time.

01:18:00.000 Well, I think there's a lot of guys that are taking things when they don't think they're going to get tested, you know, when they need to recover.

01:18:08.000 Just for the training and all, just to get through the training.

01:18:11.000 And also to recover from injuries.

01:18:13.000 That's a big one.

01:18:14.000 And not just injuries that you know about, like surgeries, but almost everybody's tweaked.

01:18:18.000 You got a bum knee, or your elbow's bothering you, or something's going on with your neck.

01:18:22.000 Everybody.

01:18:23.000 There's almost no way of avoiding it.

01:18:25.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:18:26.000 You cannot engage in an extreme sport like MMA. And maybe to a lesser extent, jiu-jitsu and judo and wrestling at that competitive level without the tweaks.

01:18:39.000 Yeah, I don't think there's a way.

01:18:40.000 It's virtually impossible.

01:18:41.000 You cannot do a combat sport without paying the price to the body.

01:18:46.000 But I wonder if a protocol will eventually be established, the most intelligent protocol, similar to what you're getting with these Russians that have developed this program for wrestling, where they're just doing a lot of technical training,

01:19:03.000 not nearly as much sparring, but a lot of technique, a lot of repetition and drills.

01:19:09.000 I wonder if that will slowly work its way into MMA and be established as this is the way to do it, the way they're doing it, say, in Russia.

01:19:19.000 Yeah, well, I think it's going to have to at some point because, you know, the career window for a lot of these guys right now is like, what would you say, like two years maybe?

01:19:29.000 Well, nine years seems to be the magic number for everybody.

01:19:34.000 That's the limit, right?

01:19:35.000 Yeah.

01:19:36.000 But don't you see a lot of these guys pretty much burning out within about two and a half, three years?

01:19:41.000 It seems like there's a lot of guys that, you know, flare to the top and then they're gone.

01:19:46.000 Yeah, there's also the issue where they're kind of forced to keep competing on a regular basis once they become successful, especially you break into the top ten and you want to keep competing and winning, and so you win a big fight and say, okay, the UFC calls you up on Monday, hey, we've got blah,

01:20:02.000 blah, blah in four months. 0.99

01:20:04.000 You're like, fuck. 1.00

01:20:05.000 Okay. 1.00

01:20:05.000 And you think, you know, man, I would really love to rest this knee. 1.00

01:20:08.000 I'd really love to, you know, get some therapy on, you know, this elbow or whatever issues you have.

01:20:14.000 And oftentimes that's not an option.

01:20:16.000 They have to go right back into training camp and these injuries become chronic.

01:20:21.000 It's a brutal way to make a living, man.

01:20:23.000 It's a very brutal way to make a living.

01:20:25.000 And some guys, I don't know how Randy Couture did it.

01:20:27.000 I don't know either.

01:20:28.000 He got through in his late 40s with no surgeries.

01:20:32.000 Of course, he was an anomaly.

01:20:35.000 I mean, he was like...

01:20:36.000 I mean, one out of thousands and thousands, you know?

01:20:41.000 You just don't find guys like him.

01:20:42.000 Yeah, I don't know how the hell he did it.

01:20:44.000 I mean, I really have no idea.

01:20:46.000 It's incredible.

01:20:47.000 I wonder if he's suffering now at all.

01:20:49.000 Do you know him personally?

01:20:50.000 I do know him personally, but he seems fine.

01:20:52.000 Is he?

01:20:52.000 Yeah, he seems fine.

01:20:53.000 No dementia or anything?

01:20:55.000 No, he was just interviewed recently.

01:20:58.000 He was...

01:21:00.000 Walking down the street with a girl who looked like she was about 20 years old.

01:21:03.000 Wow.

01:21:03.000 And he's got to be about 50. Okay.

01:21:05.000 And she looked like she just hopped off a porn set, put on a t-shirt, and strutting down the road with Captain America. 1.00

01:21:13.000 Wow, man.

01:21:14.000 As my Australian friends would say, good on you, mate.

01:21:17.000 Good on you, mate.

01:21:18.000 So, yeah.

01:21:19.000 Yeah.

01:21:20.000 I mean, he seems fine.

01:21:22.000 The point being that they asked him questions about Leila Ali.

01:21:25.000 You know, Leila Ali's saying that she wants to fight Ronda Rousey. 1.00

01:21:29.000 Oh, right.

01:21:30.000 I heard that little flappadoodle about that stuff.

01:21:34.000 Yeah, I think that's just...

01:21:35.000 Because, you know, one of my heroes was, of course, the great Dan Gable.

01:21:39.000 Probably one of the greatest wrestlers...

01:21:42.000 Not just in America, but the world has ever produced, man.

01:21:46.000 He was amazing.

01:21:46.000 I mean, he went through the Munich Olympics.

01:21:49.000 What year was it?

01:21:50.000 That was like 72, was it?

01:21:53.000 Munich Olympics, or was that Montreal?

01:21:55.000 76. 76 was America.

01:21:57.000 Was that Los Angeles in 76, or was that 88?

01:21:59.000 I don't remember.

01:22:00.000 It was the Munich Olympics.

01:22:02.000 It was that year where they had that tragic with the terrorists.

01:22:08.000 But anyway, he walked through that tournament unscored on.

01:22:12.000 How is that even possible at the elite level not to be scored on?

01:22:16.000 Incredible.

01:22:17.000 Jesus!

01:22:18.000 It's like, wow.

01:22:20.000 I don't think anyone's ever done it before or since. 0.89

01:22:22.000 No, he was an uber-dedicated monster.

01:22:25.000 Just a different guy, man.

01:22:26.000 But, wow, double hip replacement.

01:22:29.000 I don't know whether he's had knee replacement, but I saw a video of the poor guy, man.

01:22:32.000 I mean, I suppose if you'd ask him, was it worth it, he'd probably say, hell yeah, you know, the glory, but...

01:22:39.000 His mind is fine at least.

01:22:41.000 He just looks like he's in such utter pain the way he shuffles and moves around.

01:22:46.000 He just beat himself to death basically with those crazy marathon training.

01:22:52.000 And that's one of the problems with a lot of the young guys.

01:22:55.000 He was the role model for a lot of us young guys coming up.

01:22:59.000 And, you know, that approach, that kamikaze approach to training, it really ages the body.

01:23:04.000 Yeah, it really does.

01:23:05.000 And when you're in your 20s, you're not seeing the big picture, man.

01:23:09.000 You know, you've got to live with that body for a good number of years after you hang up your wrestling shoes.

01:23:15.000 Yeah, and I think what you said, like if you asked him, he probably would say it was worth it because you can't take away history.

01:23:23.000 I mean, that guy has amazing memories of being one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

01:23:27.000 But his mind is okay, at least.

01:23:29.000 Yeah, he's a very intelligent guy.

01:23:31.000 Yeah, and he doesn't have dementia or anything that you've seen with these older fighters.

01:23:34.000 Well, at least in wrestling, you're not taking the brain trauma.

01:23:38.000 Yeah, Mark Coleman, first ever UFC heavyweight champion, his body is starting to fail him.

01:23:44.000 He had one hip replacement, and apparently they have to replace it again.

01:23:48.000 He had a massive infection when they went in to look at it, and he's in the hospital now.

01:23:52.000 And there's a GoFundMe.

01:23:53.000 I'll retweet the link later today after this podcast is over for folks who want to help out Mark.

01:23:59.000 But he, you know, his body is just all banged up from the years of wrestling, high-level wrestler, and then from there, all the years of competing in MMA, he's getting his hip replaced too.

01:24:13.000 I believe both of them need to be replaced.

01:24:16.000 So that brings us back in full circle to where we started with the jujitsu for a lifetime.

01:24:22.000 I really do believe there is a way that you can train and have a lot of fun with this stuff.

01:24:27.000 But you've got to keep it really light, you know, like the grandsons of Elliot Gracie.

01:24:34.000 Keep it playful.

01:24:35.000 Keep it fun.

01:24:37.000 Don't be so concerned about points.

01:24:39.000 I mean, some guys will bleed from the eyes.

01:24:41.000 Not to have the guard passed.

01:24:43.000 It's like, dude, it's not even a tournament.

01:24:45.000 You're getting cranked up on your neck and you're taking all this abuse.

01:24:51.000 For what? 0.91

01:24:52.000 Right.

01:24:52.000 Let your guard be passed and then work on reclaiming guard.

01:24:56.000 Yeah, and just get good at defense like Master Elio.

01:25:00.000 He was a master at defense, man.

01:25:03.000 You couldn't do anything to the old man.

01:25:04.000 And that's one of the things that Hickson always preaches, like defense is the most important thing.

01:25:08.000 The most important thing is defense.

01:25:09.000 Be safe.

01:25:10.000 Be safe.

01:25:11.000 Always safe.

01:25:11.000 And I think you can extend your grappling career well into a band stage.

01:25:16.000 I think of all the martial arts, you can pretty much do jujitsu and submission wrestling, if you're smart, well into a band stage, unlike a lot of other things.

01:25:28.000 Well, it's ironic that you say that because Hickson himself is very banged up, like really badly banged up.

01:25:33.000 He has eight herniated discs.

01:25:35.000 He's got a lot of muscle atrophy.

01:25:38.000 If you look at his body, he's got a lot of pain and suffering.

01:25:41.000 And he talked about it pretty openly when he was on the podcast.

01:25:44.000 And then afterwards, we discussed it.

01:25:46.000 I mean, he doesn't look physically anything like he looked like back when he fought Takata.

01:25:50.000 Quite a specimen.

01:25:52.000 Oh yeah, man.

01:25:52.000 He was 200 plus pounds, very thick muscled and just flexible and his movement was amazing.

01:25:59.000 But all those years of getting cranked and also constantly training, constantly in there, constantly rolling.

01:26:07.000 And being slammed a lot, you know?

01:26:09.000 Yeah, that's a big one.

01:26:10.000 I mean, you can see in some of the old videos where he's getting smashed down to the ground pretty hard.

01:26:16.000 That Zillow fight, you know, he's basically throwing himself backwards on top of him.

01:26:20.000 I mean, that's a big, heavy guy.

01:26:21.000 I mean, that wasn't just that.

01:26:24.000 Like you said, it's the training for that stuff.

01:26:27.000 Yeah, it's ironic when you think about him being one of the masters and one of the real originators of that whole breathing system.

01:26:35.000 You know, he brought that yogic breathing, that fire breathing, to the practice of jiu-jitsu, and here he's all just really banged up.

01:26:44.000 He really can't train anymore.

01:26:45.000 I mean, he kind of goes over technique, and I think maybe he does some really, really light rolling with people he knows, perhaps, but...

01:26:52.000 Well, it happens to everyone eventually.

01:26:54.000 I'm very picky myself now.

01:26:56.000 I'm in my 60s.

01:26:57.000 But Hickson's 10 years younger than you.

01:26:59.000 Yeah.

01:27:00.000 And probably the consensus, all-time great.

01:27:04.000 All-time great.

01:27:05.000 Yeah, if you ask people, like, who's the best jiu-jitsu?

01:27:08.000 And, you know, he's a guy that tapped Mark Schultz.

01:27:10.000 I asked him about that on the podcast.

01:27:12.000 Him and Mark Schultz, like Mark Schultz had never really rolled with a jiu-jitsu black belt before.

01:27:17.000 And he said the guy was an incredible grappler, incredible grappler.

01:27:20.000 But Hickson caught him in like 30 seconds with a triangle.

01:27:24.000 Like he just had no idea what it was.

01:27:25.000 You know, he really didn't know what he was doing.

01:27:27.000 As most wrestlers.

01:27:28.000 Yeah.

01:27:29.000 And especially at the time.

01:27:31.000 Most wrestlers now, I would imagine.

01:27:33.000 Give him like six months, yeah.

01:27:35.000 Yeah.

01:27:35.000 Well, I mean, one of the things that Mark was...

01:27:40.000 Disqualified for him.

01:27:41.000 One of his key matches was he got a guy in a Kimura and used it in a way that's illegal in wrestling.

01:27:50.000 You would use it all the time like that in MMA, but he locked it up and rolled the guy with it and just ripped his shoulder apart.

01:27:56.000 Ouch.

01:27:56.000 I think the guy was from Turkey.

01:27:59.000 Pull up the video, see Mark Schultz disqualified wrestling, but it's a classic double wrist lock, you know, catch wrestling, double wrist lock.

01:28:09.000 And he uses it to flip the guy over and just destroys his arm in the process.

01:28:14.000 And he went on to learn a lot of submission techniques.

01:28:18.000 Oh, the guy was an absolute frightening animal towards the end, wasn't he, after he learned those submissions?

01:28:24.000 Oh, he's so physically strong, too.

01:28:26.000 In a lot of the early catch-as-catch-can wrestling, submissions were all part of it.

01:28:31.000 I'm reading this fascinating book.

01:28:32.000 Let me get the exact title here.

01:28:36.000 Right now.

01:28:38.000 It's the history of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and this guy did an amazing job on putting this thing together.

01:28:47.000 I don't know.

01:28:48.000 I don't have it here.

01:28:49.000 I think it's called...

01:28:50.000 See, here's the thing.

01:28:52.000 The guy's trying to get a single, so he's got his legs in between...

01:28:57.000 He's got Schultz's leg in between his legs.

01:29:00.000 Schultz locks up the double wrist lock and drops and rolls and just destroys his arm.

01:29:07.000 Just destroys it.

01:29:08.000 It's really interesting, but I saw Kimura on one of those old black and white pre-World War II judo videos do the same exact takedown with the gi.

01:29:19.000 Oh, yeah.

01:29:20.000 He locked up the Kimura the same exact way and threw the guy.

01:29:24.000 Mm-hmm.

01:29:25.000 Yeah, let me see that one more time.

01:29:25.000 I love watching that.

01:29:26.000 That's absolutely brutal, isn't it?

01:29:28.000 Yeah.

01:29:28.000 He was disqualified for that?

01:29:29.000 Yeah, I believe so.

01:29:31.000 I'm pretty sure.

01:29:32.000 Watch how he does this.

01:29:35.000 My shoulder's gone, dude.

01:29:37.000 You can just see the guy.

01:29:39.000 He just collapsed in agony.

01:29:41.000 That's very similar to when Frank Mir broke Minotaro's arm.

01:29:45.000 Yes.

01:29:46.000 I remember that match.

01:29:48.000 Didn't want to tap.

01:29:49.000 And Henzo got his arm broken by Sakuraba.

01:29:53.000 Yeah, Sakuraba.

01:29:54.000 It was almost the same type of situation where it was a standing Kimura and he was trying to throw him. 0.99

01:29:59.000 And I think Henzo resisted by straightening the arm, but there was enough torque that it popped.

01:30:05.000 I believe Henzo had his back and just got a little relaxed because I think Henzo was winning the fight.

01:30:11.000 Henzo had Sakuraba's back.

01:30:13.000 And you know, Sakuraba, when you had his back, that's when he would lock that up.

01:30:15.000 And he said, Henzo talked about it recently.

01:30:18.000 He said, you're just really surprised at how strong Sakuraba was. 0.52

01:30:20.000 Oh, he's a strong little dude, man.

01:30:21.000 Because he had been rolling, or fighting rather, with much larger guys.

01:30:25.000 Like he fought Conan Silveira in the first UFC when he fought in Japan.

01:30:29.000 And was a 98 maybe.

01:30:31.000 And he was, you know, 190 something.

01:30:34.000 And Conan is like 250. And he tapped him with an arm bar, if you remember that.

01:30:38.000 And it was like one of the first times we ever saw A Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt get tapped.

01:30:42.000 We were like, whoa!

01:30:43.000 This is crazy!

01:30:45.000 That was the introduction of the world to Sakuraba.

01:30:48.000 Well, you know, it's funny.

01:30:48.000 When I was a kid, York Barbell was like the mecca for strength training in those days.

01:30:53.000 And Bob Hoffman, the father of American weightlifting and weight training, he had this system called the heavy light system.

01:31:00.000 Where you would use heavy weights during one session and then lighter weights the next.

01:31:06.000 But the lighter weights weren't that light.

01:31:08.000 They just felt light because you had used heavy weights before.

01:31:11.000 And sometimes even the same session you would hold a really heavy weight and then when you go to your normal weight it felt ridiculously light.

01:31:19.000 Right?

01:31:20.000 I used to do that in wrestling.

01:31:22.000 I called it my heavy light system.

01:31:23.000 And I would spar with all the heavyweights on our team, all the big boys.

01:31:28.000 And then when I went with guys in my own weight, they felt like toys.

01:31:32.000 Yeah, makes sense.

01:31:34.000 Yeah, the heavy light system.

01:31:35.000 And I've talked to a lot of guys that had experience wrestling with big guys, you know, in jiu-jitsu and so forth.

01:31:42.000 It does truly make guys' own weight feel like nothing.

01:31:47.000 I would imagine so, but it's also like Really bad on your joints.

01:31:51.000 Well, you gotta be careful, man.

01:31:52.000 You gotta really, really, really be careful.

01:31:54.000 That's a young man's technique.

01:31:57.000 I would not use the heavy light system anymore myself, man.

01:32:00.000 Have you ever seen that video of the really old judo master rolling with all of his students?

01:32:06.000 It's a black and white video?

01:32:08.000 Yes, I have.

01:32:08.000 It's amazing.

01:32:09.000 What was that guy's name at?

01:32:11.000 I don't remember.

01:32:11.000 Jamie, see if you can find it.

01:32:12.000 Old judo master, tools, young students.

01:32:15.000 I mean, it was black and white.

01:32:17.000 He had that floating throw.

01:32:20.000 What is it called?

01:32:20.000 The floating drop or valley drop throw.

01:32:22.000 Man, he was just like tossing these guys.

01:32:24.000 Yeah, and you could tell.

01:32:26.000 I mean, this was not like some sort of a kung fu demonstration.

01:32:29.000 No, no, no.

01:32:29.000 That was like real.

01:32:30.000 Yeah, this is it.

01:32:31.000 Yeah, this is the guy.

01:32:32.000 Look at this old dude.

01:32:33.000 Wow, this guy's good here, isn't he?

01:32:34.000 No, Jamie's on the ball.

01:32:36.000 Mifumi.

01:32:36.000 Wow.

01:32:36.000 Mifumi, I mean, how old was he?

01:32:39.000 I mean, I believe he was in his 60s at the time.

01:32:41.000 Does it say it in the description of it, Jamie?

01:32:45.000 Let's see if it says it in there.

01:32:46.000 No.

01:32:47.000 No?

01:32:49.000 Well, he's no spring chicken.

01:32:51.000 Yeah, I believe he was in his 60s.

01:32:52.000 I mean, he's got all gray hair, but look how relaxed he is.

01:32:55.000 Yeah, he's so relaxed.

01:32:56.000 And he's so frail.

01:32:57.000 Wasn't judo beautiful?

01:32:58.000 Yeah, look how he moves.

01:33:00.000 But look how beautiful he moves.

01:33:01.000 You see how he checks in with the hip?

01:33:03.000 Mm-hmm.

01:33:03.000 And he's a little guy.

01:33:04.000 This guy's huge.

01:33:05.000 Yeah, big difference in size, like maybe like 30 or 40 percent at least.

01:33:10.000 But look at that.

01:33:11.000 Yeah, he's just kind of going with it.

01:33:12.000 He checks in with the hip.

01:33:13.000 He just does enough to have to get thrown.

01:33:15.000 I mean, it looks like they're dancing.

01:33:16.000 It's amazing.

01:33:17.000 It's a beautiful thing, man.

01:33:19.000 Yeah, every time this guy tries to manipulate them.

01:33:20.000 They're all wearing white belts, so that's kind of cool.

01:33:22.000 Yeah.

01:33:23.000 There were no belts.

01:33:25.000 That was even before there were belts.

01:33:27.000 Is that the case?

01:33:28.000 Look at that.

01:33:29.000 Boom! 0.99

01:33:30.000 Yeah, it was like, what, during the 60s or whatever, they started coming up with the whole belt system?

01:33:34.000 Really?

01:33:34.000 During the 60s, huh?

01:33:35.000 Yeah, it was pretty late.

01:33:36.000 It was late in the development, yeah.

01:33:38.000 So judo all throughout?

01:33:39.000 Elio Gracie told me that in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu there was one belt.

01:33:42.000 When you became, after you trained for five years, you put on a blue belt.

01:33:47.000 And that signified a senior student.

01:33:51.000 Really?

01:33:52.000 One belt, blue belt.

01:33:53.000 One belt, that's it.

01:33:54.000 And then when the judo started with their belts, the jujitsu also did around the same time.

01:33:59.000 So when did the black belt get introduced?

01:34:02.000 That was when the colored belts were introduced.

01:34:04.000 I believe it was during the 60s.

01:34:06.000 No kidding.

01:34:07.000 I know pre-World War II there were no belts.

01:34:09.000 Look how beautiful and effortless that throw was.

01:34:11.000 That was just gorgeous.

01:34:12.000 Effortless.

01:34:13.000 This old, frail guy just using perfect technique, just so much knowledge.

01:34:18.000 So much knowledge.

01:34:19.000 Look at that.

01:34:19.000 Look how beautiful that is.

01:34:21.000 The guy tries to do to him what he did to him.

01:34:23.000 And this kid is going for it, too.

01:34:24.000 I mean, he's showing respect, but he's trying to throw the old man.

01:34:28.000 There's no doubt that he just knows.

01:34:31.000 Well, yeah, he's not trying to bully him.

01:34:35.000 He's trying to use technique.

01:34:36.000 But look at that.

01:34:37.000 Oh, my goodness.

01:34:40.000 It's amazing.

01:34:42.000 I just love watching that.

01:34:44.000 I love watching that.

01:34:45.000 And there's really a difference in this in comparison to striking arts because, you know, if these guys were kickboxing after a few leg kicks, Well, as long as you know how to do your breakfalls, you can...

01:34:58.000 Oh, God, that's so beautiful.

01:35:00.000 Yeah.

01:35:00.000 But, yeah, there's no...

01:35:02.000 Yeah, I mean, I find that with the grappling arts, you can pretty much keep going for much older.

01:35:08.000 You're certainly much older than sparring with striking.

01:35:11.000 But, you know, I was telling you about this book I'm reading about the history of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

01:35:15.000 And they're talking about, like, the Japanese when they first came to America.

01:35:19.000 It was the first clash of cultures. 0.96

01:35:21.000 The Judo men were finding that they couldn't stand up to the American catch-the-s-catch-can wrestlers.

01:35:27.000 The Americans were bigger, stronger, faster, heavy. 1.00

01:35:30.000 They couldn't take them down with a lot of those throws.

01:35:33.000 A lot of the wrestlers won't wear the jackets.

01:35:35.000 That's where the guard really became developed.

01:35:40.000 They found that if they could pull them into the guard, they could dispatch them with arm locks, triangles.

01:35:46.000 Sometimes they insisted that the wrestlers wear the jackets in these fights like Maeda.

01:35:51.000 And then, of course, they could set the choke pretty easy on these guys.

01:35:55.000 Very fascinating book.

01:35:56.000 It's really fun.

01:35:57.000 I bought it off Amazon.

01:35:58.000 I have it on my Kindle.

01:35:59.000 I'm halfway through it right now.

01:36:00.000 I'm just to the point now where Maeda starts teaching Carlos Gracie.

01:36:04.000 But the history of the sport is absolutely fascinating.

01:36:09.000 That's incredible.

01:36:10.000 Have you been paying attention at all to Metamorris?

01:36:13.000 Oh, yeah.

01:36:14.000 Well, my son.

01:36:14.000 Yeah, your son, of course.

01:36:15.000 Zach.

01:36:16.000 That was a tough match for him.

01:36:17.000 Yeah.

01:36:18.000 Like, he doesn't do no gig.

01:36:20.000 That's not his game at all.

01:36:21.000 He's only doing gig. 0.99

01:36:22.000 Yeah, and I said, holy shit, for your first professional black belt match, Gary Tony, jeez. 0.99

01:36:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:36:28.000 Could he have picked, like, a harder guy? 0.99

01:36:30.000 Yeah.

01:36:30.000 Yeah, Gary Tonin's coming on this week.

01:36:32.000 We're going to have him on the podcast this week.

01:36:33.000 I really questioned, you know, like, wow.

01:36:37.000 He said, you know what?

01:36:38.000 I just wanted a challenge.

01:36:39.000 I just really want to fight the top guy.

01:36:42.000 And Gary Tonin, anytime you talk about no-gi submission wrestling, that name's up there with the best, man.

01:36:49.000 Did you see his match with Krohn?

01:36:50.000 Oh, my God.

01:36:51.000 Amazing.

01:36:51.000 I don't even know how Krohn pulled that out, man.

01:36:53.000 He's a beast.

01:36:53.000 I mean, it just says how tough Krohn is, right?

01:36:55.000 But, yeah, it's like, so, yeah.

01:36:59.000 So, Metamorris had Dean Lister versus Josh Barnett.

01:37:03.000 Josh Barnett, of course, representing catch wrestling.

01:37:06.000 Josh Barnett even came out like an old catch wrestler.

01:37:09.000 Like an old catch wrestler.

01:37:10.000 Like a bikini bump. 0.81

01:37:11.000 The old jumps and the shoes.

01:37:12.000 Yeah, and the wrestling shoes and tapped Dean Lister.

01:37:16.000 With a headlock.

01:37:16.000 Yeah, with that judo headlock from side control.

01:37:20.000 Oh, you guys out there, you blue belts and purple belts, don't forget to practice your headlock escape, man.

01:37:26.000 Yeah.

01:37:26.000 Because, you know, in jiu-jitsu training, no one uses the headlock because it's usually pretty easy to escape from.

01:37:32.000 Also, you give up your back, kind of.

01:37:33.000 Exactly.

01:37:34.000 When you get out of a headlock, you're in a pretty crappy position, right?

01:37:38.000 But if you don't practice it, man, you can see what happens.

01:37:41.000 I mean, you get a high-level athlete like Josh Barnett, who is...

01:37:46.000 Ridiculously strong.

01:37:47.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:37:48.000 And he slaps it on you by surprise.

01:37:51.000 Even a professional like Dean, and I mean, Dean probably knows a hundred escapes from a headlock, but man, you get caught by surprise and get locked up in that thing, man.

01:37:59.000 You know, that same position?

01:38:01.000 I was actually giving a seminar for the United States Secret Service.

01:38:05.000 I used to go down.

01:38:06.000 They were just a 90-minute drive from my gym, Philadelphia.

01:38:11.000 And I got to know some of these guys through Pavel.

01:38:14.000 And I used to go down and give self-defense seminars as well as conditioning and kettlebell seminars.

01:38:20.000 So one of the guys was an ex-wrestler who got me in that position that Josh got Dean.

01:38:25.000 I made a big mistake, man.

01:38:27.000 The guy says, well, how do you get out of this position, you know?

01:38:30.000 And so I lay down and leave him do it to me.

01:38:33.000 But the sound of a gun cranked me with it.

01:38:35.000 And pop both of my ribs.

01:38:38.000 And I was crippled for eight weeks.

01:38:40.000 Wow. 0.99

01:38:41.000 Yeah, it was a pretty jerk thing to do. 0.99

01:38:43.000 Of course, you know, typical herky-jerky type of wrestler. 0.97

01:38:47.000 I was one of those guys myself at one time.

01:38:48.000 But I just realized how dangerous that position is.

01:38:52.000 That's how Mark Coleman beat Dan Severin to win the first ever UFC heavyweight title.

01:38:56.000 That same exact position.

01:38:57.000 And I'll tell you, man, it is a power move, but man, if a guy knows how to do it right, it freezes your diaphragm.

01:39:04.000 It can dislocate your ribs.

01:39:06.000 It could even cause some spinal damage.

01:39:09.000 It's just horrible to be caught in it, and you go into an immediate panic.

01:39:13.000 But yeah, you can really get hurt with that.

01:39:16.000 Not just neck, but ribs.

01:39:18.000 It's a power move, but isn't it guillotine as well?

01:39:20.000 I mean, there's a technique to it, but you certainly have to have some strength to pull it off.

01:39:25.000 Yeah, well, if you're wrestling anybody your own size or a little bit smaller, and in Josh's case, he was bigger than Dean.

01:39:31.000 Hell, why not, man?

01:39:33.000 Not much bigger than Dean.

01:39:34.000 Dean's huge now.

01:39:35.000 Yeah, Dean's a pretty big boy.

01:39:36.000 He's really big now.

01:39:37.000 I mean, he's way thicker than when he was fighting at 205 in the UFC. I don't know what he's walking around on, but he looked to me to be like in the 240s or 230s at the very least.

01:39:48.000 I wouldn't doubt it.

01:39:48.000 Yeah, he's very thick.

01:39:49.000 But Josh got him in that position.

01:39:52.000 He couldn't escape, which is amazing when you consider how much experience Dean has.

01:39:57.000 And I don't think he'd been tapped in competition over a decade.

01:40:00.000 He's a hard guy to tap, man.

01:40:01.000 Oh, so hard to tap.

01:40:03.000 His skill level, his skill set.

01:40:04.000 But hey, both guys are fantastic.

01:40:06.000 And, you know, that's grappling, right, on any given day?

01:40:10.000 I love also the different approaches that Josh has a different approach and you see that that different approach that cast wrestling approach can be just as effective if he gets you in one of those positions You know it's it and it might be something you're not accustomed to so you haven't trained to get out of it I remember one of the first pro Grappling matches.

01:40:30.000 Maybe you remember this.

01:40:31.000 It was like in one of the Carolinas, North Carolina or South Carolina.

01:40:34.000 I think it was called the Pro-Am or something.

01:40:37.000 How long ago was this?

01:40:38.000 Oh man, back in the 90s maybe.

01:40:41.000 No.

01:40:42.000 It was real early.

01:40:44.000 Like late 90s.

01:40:45.000 Was this the one where Frank Shamrock wrestled Dan Henderson and they did like a pay-per-view thing and John Peretti was the...

01:40:53.000 Nah, it wasn't a pay-per-view, but they were paying cash prizes to the guys.

01:40:58.000 It was like one of the early attempts to do submission wrestling as a pro sport.

01:41:03.000 Okay.

01:41:04.000 I remember Salo was at the house.

01:41:07.000 He was training with me.

01:41:08.000 Salo Hibero?

01:41:09.000 Salo Hibero.

01:41:09.000 And he was wrestling supposedly like the number one catch wrestler.

01:41:13.000 He was living down in North Carolina somewhere.

01:41:15.000 And I had seen this guy in other tournaments.

01:41:17.000 And I warned him.

01:41:18.000 I said, hey, this guy will give up his back.

01:41:22.000 To go for that twisting toehold.

01:41:24.000 You know, like when you go, they loop over the toehold and kind of flip upside down and go for your foot.

01:41:29.000 And I said, the guy's good with it.

01:41:31.000 He's really good.

01:41:32.000 And wouldn't you know, Sala takes it back and the guy does it and pops his ankle.

01:41:38.000 But Salo won't tap.

01:41:40.000 He said he would have died before he tapped as a catcher wrestler.

01:41:44.000 And then, because he didn't tap, you know, he choked the guy over the face, you know, because the guy was trying to hide the chin.

01:41:51.000 He basically just put the guy out, man.

01:41:54.000 But mangled his ankle?

01:41:55.000 But mangled the ankle.

01:41:57.000 So he won.

01:41:58.000 But, oh my God, that thing turned as black as his microphone, man.

01:42:01.000 It was like, he was in such pain.

01:42:03.000 God, did he need surgery?

01:42:04.000 No, he didn't.

01:42:06.000 Man, I'll tell you, Sola is another one of those guys that's just like one of the toughest dudes I've ever met.

01:42:10.000 Him and his brother Shanzi are just so tough.

01:42:13.000 But, man, he limped around and was hurt.

01:42:15.000 I don't know whether the ankle was ever the same.

01:42:17.000 But that's one of those deals, right, with the catch wrestlers?

01:42:20.000 You've got to watch.

01:42:21.000 Those guys are tricky as all hell.

01:42:23.000 They're doing different things.

01:42:25.000 Especially with the knees, the feet.

01:42:26.000 Oh, man.

01:42:27.000 Yeah, it's guys doing different things and getting really good at those things.

01:42:31.000 That's a big part of it.

01:42:32.000 It's like, if a guy has a footlock or something like that, he just has down.

01:42:37.000 He just knows how to do it, and that becomes his thing.

01:42:40.000 I mean, some guys just have certain positions that you're not really well versed in, and they go to it over and over and over again.

01:42:47.000 Like, Eddie Bravo, before he got famous for doing the twister, one of the things I remember in Jean Jacques, Eddie Bravo would do a toehold.

01:42:55.000 He was a toehold guy.

01:42:57.000 And he would get toeholds on guys all the time because a lot of people weren't good at toeholds.

01:43:02.000 So he would dive on toeholds.

01:43:03.000 He was always catching people with that.

01:43:05.000 And people don't know how to defend them, man.

01:43:06.000 Yeah.

01:43:06.000 It's a smart move.

01:43:08.000 And sometimes moves are so old they're new, you know what I mean?

01:43:11.000 Like you see things go in trends and then people get good at stopping them and they kind of go away.

01:43:16.000 Right.

01:43:16.000 And then some older move will come back and you see these waves.

01:43:20.000 It's funny.

01:43:21.000 I was sort of anti-Baron Bolo and some of these inversion techniques.

01:43:29.000 Maybe I'm just jealous because my spine is a little bit too old and stiff to do it.

01:43:33.000 But the guys look like they're having a good time when they do it.

01:43:36.000 But I was talking to my son.

01:43:39.000 He says, well, Dad, you've still got to learn that stuff.

01:43:42.000 He says, even if you don't want to use it, you've got to learn it so you know how to stop it.

01:43:48.000 He says, because for sure, if you don't know it, you're going to get tapped.

01:43:52.000 The guy's going to catch you.

01:43:53.000 Right.

01:43:53.000 So you've got to at least practice it a little bit to be familiar with him.

01:43:56.000 And that being said, I was in New York City and I was wrestling with Gianni Grippo and Mr. Baron Bolo.

01:44:05.000 The guy's so much fun.

01:44:06.000 He's one of Marcelo's black belts.

01:44:09.000 This kid is so good with that.

01:44:11.000 And it was really fun playing with him with that thing, man.

01:44:15.000 He could just flip upside down and roll and invert. 0.93

01:44:17.000 And next thing you know, the little sucker's on your back. 0.97

01:44:19.000 He's like, how did he do that, man? 0.93

01:44:22.000 Yeah, it's really interesting when guys get super sharp at one particular technique.

01:44:27.000 And if you're not aware of that particular technique, it could become really dangerous.

01:44:31.000 You know, Braulio Estima is famous for having that very bizarre guard as well, where he'll, you know, do those reverse triangles or inverted triangles.

01:44:40.000 And he gets himself into a position where, to the outside observer, it looks like, wow, this guy is like on his neck here in this weird position.

01:44:48.000 And then all of a sudden he's got a triangle on the guy and he's tapping people.

01:44:52.000 Just so good at that position.

01:44:55.000 He's good at all positions.

01:44:56.000 But that one position he's been particularly successful at because it's such an unusual thing to defend.

01:45:02.000 Very few people are that scary with it.

01:45:05.000 And it's like, some people criticize certain techniques.

01:45:09.000 They go, ah, you know, I played around with that, but that doesn't work.

01:45:11.000 Well, okay, really?

01:45:12.000 What about, like, head kicks?

01:45:15.000 Did you play around with head kicks and you say they don't work?

01:45:17.000 Because you know how many times you have to drill a head kick to get it effective?

01:45:21.000 But then you get it up to, like, a point where, like, an Anthony Pettis has it, or an Anderson Silva has it, and it becomes a real dangerous weapon in your arsenal.

01:45:30.000 Crow Cop, perfect example. 0.98

01:45:32.000 Crow Cop drilled that damn head kick to the point where he could throw it out like another guy could throw out a straight punch, a standard straight punch. 0.99

01:45:39.000 That's how good and fast his head kick was, and still is. 0.99

01:45:43.000 And when you discount a technique simply because you don't have the proficiency in it, you can really get caught, because you really can sort of define the world in an inaccurate light, and then you see a guy, like maybe this Barambolo guy,

01:45:59.000 or Eddie Bravo with his twister...

01:46:01.000 Or, you know, there's a million different techniques that you're starting to see emerge in MMA that guys have discarded.

01:46:07.000 Like the front kick to the face. 0.83

01:46:08.000 Nobody was worried about the front kick to the face.

01:46:10.000 Nobody.

01:46:11.000 And then all of a sudden, Anderson knocks out Vitor.

01:46:13.000 What the heck is going on here?

01:46:16.000 No one would ever expect it.

01:46:17.000 But, see, that's just the thing.

01:46:19.000 I mean, you can't learn everything, for sure.

01:46:20.000 You know, you've got to have your certain arsenal.

01:46:22.000 But it certainly pays to be familiar with these positions.

01:46:25.000 And at least learn the rudimentary basics so you understand it, what it is.

01:46:31.000 You can recognize it.

01:46:33.000 Because recognition is the first step to protecting yourself against this stuff.

01:46:37.000 So even if you never want to use it, it pays to at least learn it and be familiar with it.

01:46:43.000 And actually learn it offensively.

01:46:45.000 There's a mistake that people do, especially wrestlers that are learning jujitsu.

01:46:50.000 They decide, well, I'm just going to learn defense.

01:46:52.000 I'm just going to learn jujitsu defense.

01:46:54.000 You will never learn correct jujitsu defense unless you learn jujitsu offense.

01:47:00.000 That's right.

01:47:01.000 If you don't know how to cinch up a choke, if you don't know how to cinch up an arm bar, you're never going to know exactly what you can get away with when you're defending.

01:47:10.000 And once you get adapt at offense, then you'll truly understand defense because you'll understand what would I be trying to do to me if I was in this position and how do I stop this guy from doing that.

01:47:21.000 All those little details, it's like so, so important.

01:47:25.000 One of the most beautiful things about jiu-jitsu is there's so many techniques.

01:47:29.000 It's almost like...

01:47:30.000 It's never-ending.

01:47:31.000 Yeah, and you see certain guys who have a very small wheelhouse of techniques that they utilize, especially attacks.

01:47:37.000 Like Marcelo Garcia is, of course, one of the best of all time.

01:47:41.000 But he has a very, if you look at his, if you took all of his jiu-jitsu matches that he's won and look at how he won them, it's a very small number of chokes that he's used.

01:47:50.000 I mean, it's almost all, I mean, Rico Rodriguez, I think he got him with a leg lock.

01:47:55.000 Most guys, he got Jake Shields with a wrist lock, I believe.

01:48:01.000 I remember Rico Schiaparelli had a professional jiu-jitsu tournament thing that he was doing in Los Angeles.

01:48:08.000 Jacare competed against Randy Couture, and Marcelo competed against Jake Shields. 0.97

01:48:14.000 And I believe he got Jake in a wrist lock, which is, you know, he's got some crafty shit in there. 0.97

01:48:18.000 Really crafty. 0.99

01:48:19.000 But most of it, guillotines, north-south choke, rear-naked choke.

01:48:23.000 It's almost all necks.

01:48:24.000 Almost all attacking the necks.

01:48:28.000 Jiu-Jitsu is such a complex sport.

01:48:31.000 I liken wrestling, being a former wrestler, more like checkers.

01:48:38.000 And jujitsu to chess, but not just chess, three-dimensional chess.

01:48:42.000 It really is.

01:48:44.000 Maybe submission wrestling would be more like regular chess.

01:48:46.000 And then jujitsu with the gi, with all the different ways you can manipulate the cloth, almost like three-dimensional chess.

01:48:53.000 It's just such a huge variety of stuff.

01:48:57.000 Yeah, the only problem I have with the gi is that I think a lot of people get brainwashed into thinking that you need to learn the gi to be good at jiu-jitsu and MMA. And Eddie Bravo in particular is very adamant that that is a ridiculous idea.

01:49:09.000 He's like, that's like saying you have to be really good at racquetball to be good at tennis.

01:49:13.000 Yeah, it's two different sports altogether.

01:49:15.000 Well, there's just so much to grip, and you see so many guys that are world champions or that compete at a very high level with the Gi, and then they fight in MMA, and everyone's sweaty, and they have gloves on, and they can't grab things, and they seem lost.

01:49:29.000 It's very sport-specific, man.

01:49:30.000 You have to develop the specific skills towards your fighting conditions.

01:49:35.000 But, you know, one of the most elegant definitions of jiu-jitsu I've ever heard, and it came from Hellson Gracie.

01:49:42.000 It was at a seminar in Atlantic City.

01:49:44.000 This was like one of the early Gracie seminars.

01:49:46.000 And this is back in the day when you never knew what kind of wacko was going to walk in through there. 0.79

01:49:50.000 Sometimes you'd even get people that wanted to challenge in the seminars.

01:49:54.000 And there was this guy that came in, swear to God, with flowing robes, like this kung fu guy with this big red sash. 0.97

01:50:03.000 And in the middle of the seminar he interrupts, well, Mr. Gracie, sir, could you give me the definition of your philosophy of jiu-jitsu?

01:50:12.000 And we're like, oh boy.

01:50:14.000 Because, you know, Halston, his English wasn't the most, it was hard to understand sometimes, you know, plus he mixed it with the Hawaiian slang.

01:50:21.000 But he says, win the fight.

01:50:23.000 When I know I can win the fight, I can pretty much, you know, be that nice guy and kind and, you know, loving and all that towards other people.

01:50:32.000 Because, you know, I had that confidence with myself that I know I can protect myself.

01:50:36.000 I don't have to be insecure.

01:50:38.000 So the guy says, well, could you expound on that?

01:50:41.000 Of course, first we have to explain what expound means and all that.

01:50:44.000 And we're thinking, man, what's he going to say here?

01:50:47.000 And he says, jujitsu, if you do this, I do that.

01:50:55.000 And if you do that, I do this forever. 0.99

01:50:58.000 And we said, whoa, that is some deep shit. 0.96

01:51:03.000 Let's get a 3x5 card. 0.99

01:51:04.000 And I actually had that in my school.

01:51:06.000 I actually wrote that and put it on the wall.

01:51:08.000 If you do dis, I do dat.

01:51:10.000 And if you do dat, I do dis forever.

01:51:13.000 And it's like, wow, it does.

01:51:15.000 It goes into infinity, man.

01:51:16.000 Especially when you're constantly moving one step ahead of the guy.

01:51:19.000 Like, if you...

01:51:20.000 I liken it to having a conversation.

01:51:23.000 Like, if you have a conversation with someone who speaks very broken English, you could really kind of talk circles around them. 0.97

01:51:29.000 If you're an articulate person, especially, you could make them look really silly. 0.89

01:51:34.000 You'd be like, what? 0.90

01:51:35.000 What are you trying to say?

01:51:36.000 You're trying to say nothing. 1.00

01:51:36.000 You don't even know how to talk my language, stupid. 1.00

01:51:38.000 You know, and you could just literally just rattle and attack them. 1.00

01:51:40.000 I think they call it sophistry.

01:51:43.000 Like a lawyer.

01:51:44.000 Yeah.

01:51:45.000 Well, some guys, you know, be aggressive and rude about it, but some guys can do that with jujitsu, where you kind of have to think yourself through every step, and you're not kind of aware.

01:51:56.000 I mean, that's how I always feel when I would roll with guys who are like at a really, really high level.

01:52:00.000 It's like, I'm not prepared for all the steps that you could take to counter my step.

01:52:05.000 You know, I will do a move, and you will do your move, but you also have all these other...

01:52:09.000 You're already anticipating to counter this, I've got to do that, so I'm going to stop this by putting my hand on your knee here, and putting my foot on your hip here, and now you're going to have to try to get out of it, but I'm not going to let you get out of it, because I'm already anticipating that.

01:52:23.000 Because I'm already so far ahead.

01:52:24.000 Yeah, like Hicks and Gracie always used to say about guys, he's not going to be able to keep up the rhythm.

01:52:29.000 Not going to be able to keep up the rhythm.

01:52:31.000 I do this and you do that.

01:52:34.000 I do this and you do that.

01:52:35.000 How long can you keep that up?

01:52:36.000 How long can you keep that rhythm up?

01:52:37.000 How long?

01:52:38.000 Well, Halston had another go in too.

01:52:40.000 It was amazing because the guy was pretty profound in his own very simple way.

01:52:44.000 The way he'd explain things was pretty amazing.

01:52:46.000 But somebody was complaining how easily he was catching them.

01:52:52.000 And Halston says, look, I know everything you know and everything else.

01:52:57.000 laughter I was like, yeah, absolutely.

01:53:01.000 He says, maybe, maybe if I got sick or injured and was in the hospital for like three years and didn't train, maybe if I came back, you might have a chance.

01:53:14.000 But it's true.

01:53:15.000 But it's true.

01:53:15.000 Why wouldn't it be true?

01:53:16.000 I mean, the guy's done it his own.

01:53:17.000 I mean, Ronda Rousey's essentially.

01:53:19.000 It's born on their mats.

01:53:20.000 Yeah, Ronda's been saying that about female opponents. 1.00

01:53:23.000 She was like, listen, what's going on now is I've been doing this my whole life, and these girls are just not going to catch up to me. 0.82

01:53:30.000 And that's what you're seeing when you saw that beautiful armbar that she landed on Zingano.

01:53:34.000 I mean, Zingano attacks.

01:53:36.000 Unbelievable.

01:53:36.000 Tries to throw her.

01:53:38.000 Ronda adjusts, winds up on top, recognizes the position where the arm is. 0.99

01:53:42.000 I mean, I was talking to George Gurjell about it at the last UFC. He's like, that's when I bow down to Ronda.

01:53:48.000 And that's how he said it.

01:53:49.000 I mean, George has a black belt as well.

01:53:50.000 And he's like, you know, I saw her arm bars.

01:53:52.000 I was like, yeah, she's got good arm bars, but sometimes she does things that I don't agree with. 0.98

01:53:56.000 Maybe her knees are a little too wide apart.

01:53:58.000 Even though she's catching these girls, maybe she's catching these girls because they're just not that technical.

01:54:02.000 He goes, but when she hit that armbar on Zingano, 14 seconds in, it's like, look, I've got to bow down.

01:54:07.000 That's some high-level, high-level technique.

01:54:09.000 High-level technique, man.

01:54:11.000 Yeah, just the ability to adjust.

01:54:12.000 And again, that language that she has in her head.

01:54:15.000 She's so articulate with the language of submissions.

01:54:18.000 In her case, armbars.

01:54:20.000 You know, just so good at armbars.

01:54:22.000 What a talent, huh?

01:54:23.000 Looks like she has quite a budding movie career as well.

01:54:25.000 She's... 1.00

01:54:26.000 She's not a bad-looking gal. 1.00

01:54:27.000 Beautiful. 0.99

01:54:27.000 She's a monster. 0.99

01:54:28.000 I saw the swimsuit issue or whatever. 1.00

01:54:30.000 Man, she's a good figure, pretty girl, tough as shit. 0.99

01:54:35.000 I saw a very funny interview where this guy was talking a little trash, and she judo-threw him, and landed on him. 0.99

01:54:43.000 On Harwood 4, yeah.

01:54:44.000 It was like, oh, man, did she...

01:54:47.000 She broke the guy's ribs. 0.97

01:54:49.000 Yeah, she judoed through him and launched herself on top of him. 1.00

01:54:53.000 On top of him, man.

01:54:54.000 She knew exactly what she was doing, too, by the way.

01:54:57.000 Are you all right?

01:54:58.000 Are you all right?

01:55:00.000 You don't trash talk to... 0.59

01:55:03.000 You just don't trash talk like that, man.

01:55:05.000 I think it was kind of planned out in advance.

01:55:07.000 What did he think?

01:55:09.000 He wanted to get attention and make a video.

01:55:11.000 You put on a gi and then you trash talk the girl? 0.92

01:55:16.000 Like you're not going to...

01:55:19.000 Yeah.

01:55:20.000 Well, people got upset when I said that I think she could beat a lot of men in that weight class. 0.99

01:55:23.000 I don't know why they would.

01:55:25.000 Well, because they don't know.

01:55:26.000 They've never rolled with a girl who's really good.

01:55:28.000 I mean, like, in the natural world, right, a lioness can sometimes beat a male lion.

01:55:35.000 If they're the same size.

01:55:36.000 Yeah.

01:55:36.000 You never know.

01:55:37.000 And if she has cubs, she'll risk her life. 0.64

01:55:40.000 And maybe he could beat her, but her incentive is... 1.00

01:55:44.000 Way higher than his incentive, so he figures it's not worth it.

01:55:48.000 Well, technique is, as we said before, is paramount.

01:55:51.000 And her technique is so laser sharp.

01:55:55.000 If she got in there with a guy who doesn't have that good a technique, just because he's a man, the physical strength and the benefits of being a male, whatever advantages that he may have, Aren't necessarily going to counter the technique that she has when they're the same weight.

01:56:13.000 Now, if you're dealing with a guy like, you know, she competes at 135. Okay, if you deal with her versus a guy at 170 like Johnny Hendricks.

01:56:22.000 Like, Jesus, of course that's a mismatch.

01:56:24.000 Johnny Hendricks is a powerful, big, strong man, and he most likely would beat her up.

01:56:29.000 But you're talking about a guy who's her weight, and then even if he's physically stronger, maybe he can hit harder, but how much of a technical advantage does she have on the ground?

01:56:40.000 She could easily catch you in something in a scramble.

01:56:42.000 Easily.

01:56:43.000 Easily.

01:56:43.000 One, two, three, four steps ahead of you.

01:56:46.000 Well, for older guys like myself, actually the women are some of your best sparring partners, like the more advanced women. 0.99

01:56:52.000 They're fun to train with.

01:56:53.000 Because they're not going to try to muscle.

01:56:55.000 Usually, it's rare occasionally, but usually women won't use power. 1.00

01:56:59.000 They do think differently than men.

01:57:01.000 They have a different logic, and they surprise the heck out of you with some of their attacks and the way they put their game together.

01:57:09.000 It's really fun.

01:57:11.000 And usually women are pretty flexible, so their guards are a nightmare to get, you know, some of these girls with their De La Havis and spider guards are like, wow, controlling those feet is a nightmare. 1.00

01:57:23.000 Yeah, and you think about someone's guard, someone's legs have to carry their body around, you know, say if they weigh 140 pounds like Rhonda or 135. And, you know, you're carrying 135 pounds around all...

01:57:34.000 By the way, she doesn't really weigh 135. She weighs 135 on weigh-in day. 1.00

01:57:38.000 And then I would imagine she rehydrates up to around 150, close to it.

01:57:42.000 She carries a lot of muscle in that frame. 0.99

01:57:45.000 She's thick. 1.00

01:57:45.000 Yeah, she's not a skinny girl by any stretch. 1.00

01:57:48.000 Yeah, she's not weak by any stretch of the imagination. 0.72

01:57:50.000 Oh my gosh, she's very strong.

01:57:52.000 So you're dealing with someone who knows how to manipulate their body and they have these legs that are carrying around All of this weight all day long.

01:58:01.000 Your legs are amazingly strong.

01:58:03.000 It's amazing endurance.

01:58:04.000 And when you factor that in, if you've gotten, like, I remember doing drills with my friend Felicia.

01:58:10.000 Felicia O is one of Jean-Jacques Machado's black belts.

01:58:13.000 Yeah, I know Felicia from the old RKC kettlebell. 0.99

01:58:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:58:16.000 She's a kettlebell wizard.

01:58:17.000 She loves that.

01:58:19.000 But I remember doing drills with her and, you know, armbar drills.

01:58:22.000 And she locks an armbar up on you, man, and you're dealing with legs. 0.99

01:58:26.000 Oh, yeah.

01:58:27.000 Legs are strong, man.

01:58:29.000 Even a small woman has very strong legs. 0.93

01:58:33.000 Well, the difference between male and female legs is a very small percentage, you know, in studies that they've done.

01:58:39.000 Upper body, there is a significant difference, but with a trained woman, she can close that gap. 1.00

01:58:46.000 And I'll tell you, for you older guys listening out there, you know, you guys over 40, or if you're a guy that's been injured, start seeking the girls out for sparring partners, and you will have a wonderful technical spar session.

01:59:00.000 You also look like a little bit of a creep.

01:59:02.000 Yeah, well, man. 0.59

01:59:03.000 Heads up.

01:59:04.000 Just don't be afraid to tap.

01:59:07.000 Yeah, that's a big one with guys tapping to girls.

01:59:09.000 Oh, my God.

01:59:10.000 Some guys want to bleed from their eyes before they'll tap to a girl.

01:59:13.000 Have you ever tapped to a girl?

01:59:14.000 Oh, hell yeah.

01:59:14.000 I haven't.

01:59:16.000 I didn't say what contact.

01:59:24.000 I would, though.

01:59:24.000 I mean, I'm sure Rhonda could probably tell you.

01:59:26.000 If I get in a bad position, I don't care who it is.

01:59:29.000 If it's a child, I'll tap.

01:59:33.000 Now I'm to the point where my days were fighting out of stuff.

01:59:37.000 If I make the mistake and I get in the submission, I have to assume that if it was a person of equal skill to myself, I'm submitted.

01:59:46.000 He got me in this position.

01:59:48.000 Fighting out of it isn't really technique as much as just strength or whatever, you know, pain tolerance.

01:59:55.000 Right.

01:59:56.000 I agree with you.

01:59:56.000 I mean, there are technical escapes.

01:59:58.000 Sure, yeah.

01:59:58.000 But, you know, like, you know, the joint's straight.

02:00:02.000 Right.

02:00:03.000 Okay.

02:00:03.000 Especially when it's fully locked in.

02:00:05.000 Exactly.

02:00:06.000 Perfect.

02:00:06.000 Okay, he got me straight, or the choke's set.

02:00:10.000 It's just pain tolerance and or whatever.

02:00:13.000 It's also the price you pay just to keep your ego healthy.

02:00:18.000 Like physically, I remember my friend Brent got me in a Kimura and I didn't want to tap and I fought out of it.

02:00:24.000 But I couldn't do chin-ups for months.

02:00:26.000 My elbow was so jacked.

02:00:29.000 I couldn't do chin-ups for the long... 0.99

02:00:30.000 And I just remember every day I would be at the gym when I was lifting weights going, why the fuck didn't I just tap? 0.91

02:00:35.000 Because I would be fine right now. 0.98

02:00:37.000 It was the same thing happened.

02:00:39.000 I've tapped him before.

02:00:40.000 He's tapped me before.

02:00:41.000 But I just would not tap.

02:00:42.000 And I'm like, ah!

02:00:43.000 Yeah, you're just in that mindset.

02:00:46.000 But you've got to treat it like it's basketball.

02:00:48.000 If someone scores on you in basketball, it's not the end of the world.

02:00:51.000 You get the ball and you go right back in.

02:00:52.000 Or you're playing softball and you pop fly out in the outfield or you get thrown out at third base.

02:00:57.000 So what?

02:00:57.000 You'll get another chance at bat.

02:00:59.000 But a lot of times, like you said, even though you do fight out of it, you are successful, the injuries already occurred.

02:01:06.000 Especially with the neck. 0.98

02:01:08.000 And you might not even feel it at the time, but then it's like, oh shit, this really hurts, man. 0.97

02:01:14.000 I didn't realize it was as damaged as I was. 0.97

02:01:16.000 Maybe you're a little bit adrenalized or...

02:01:19.000 That's why I love the saying that Henner and Huron, keep it playful.

02:01:24.000 Keep it playful.

02:01:24.000 That's a great way.

02:01:26.000 It's a great philosophy.

02:01:27.000 And it's a great way to teach.

02:01:28.000 You know, those guys have really done an amazing job with that.

02:01:32.000 I met those guys when they were just like little, tiny boys.

02:01:36.000 They're so enthusiastic, too.

02:01:37.000 It's very contagious.

02:01:38.000 They are.

02:01:39.000 They are very enthusiastic.

02:01:41.000 Like those Gracie breakdowns that they do that go over the techniques that guys use in fights to win fights.

02:01:46.000 It's like, it's very, it really makes you want to train.

02:01:49.000 They're great assets to jiu-jitsu.

02:01:51.000 They're great ambassadors.

02:01:52.000 I think so too.

02:01:53.000 I love the whole street fight thing that they do and they show like the right things that people do and the wrong things.

02:02:00.000 I mean, they get some pretty intense street fights on there sometimes.

02:02:04.000 So you're in town for how long and you're doing some seminars around here?

02:02:09.000 Yeah, actually I came here just to see you and then I'm going to be in...

02:02:15.000 I don't know whether I should even mention it on your show, but Love Wine with Dr. Joe?

02:02:19.000 Why shouldn't you mention it?

02:02:20.000 Oh, I mean, you know, it's kind of a...

02:02:23.000 Isn't it like a competition podcast or something?

02:02:26.000 Oh, no.

02:02:28.000 I don't think about it like that at all, ever.

02:02:30.000 No, no, no, no.

02:02:32.000 I have a lot of friends doing that.

02:02:34.000 That's an old-school radio mentality.

02:02:36.000 Yeah, well, you know...

02:02:38.000 I support everything.

02:02:39.000 No.

02:02:40.000 So yeah, that was a weird one, man.

02:02:43.000 They just called it out of the blue.

02:02:44.000 Apparently the guy's been following some of the anti-aging stuff.

02:02:48.000 Not Dr. Drew, but the...

02:02:50.000 Mike?

02:02:50.000 Yeah, the comedian guy that's on there.

02:02:52.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:02:53.000 That's interesting.

02:02:54.000 Oh, that's cool.

02:02:54.000 Yeah, no, I've never done anything like that before.

02:02:56.000 That's like, whoa.

02:02:57.000 That should be interesting.

02:02:58.000 Yeah, it'll be fun.

02:02:59.000 Tell him I said hi.

02:03:00.000 I had no idea, you know, like what to expect.

02:03:02.000 Tell him that you're getting in the pot.

02:03:04.000 Yeah!

02:03:05.000 He's actually come around about pot.

02:03:08.000 Him and that Sanjay Gupta guy from CNN, they're all coming around.

02:03:11.000 Man, if I came around, you know, it's like now that you're seeing it get legalized. 0.99

02:03:15.000 But yeah, I was a little concerned because I wasn't sure, is it going to be like a Howard Stern thing where they try to make you look like an idiot? 0.99

02:03:22.000 Right, no, no, no. 0.99

02:03:23.000 No, I understand it's actually a pretty cool show.

02:03:27.000 So I'll be doing that Strength Matters Summit in San Diego.

02:03:32.000 That's 20th through 22nd March, San Diego.

02:03:35.000 I'm teaching a bodyweight workshop.

02:03:37.000 Where can people find all of this stuff?

02:03:39.000 On my website, maxwellsc.com.

02:03:43.000 www.maxwellsc.com.

02:03:47.000 Okay.

02:03:47.000 And all the upcoming things.

02:03:49.000 And then, of course, the El Salvador lifestyle jujitsu training camp.

02:03:55.000 Show you all my anti-aging secrets.

02:03:58.000 Nice.

02:03:58.000 Hopefully, you know, mobility and conditioning and jujitsu.

02:04:03.000 Big emphasis on the self-defense aspects of it, but also we'll have some other young guys there for competition stuff.

02:04:10.000 And then I just came out with the five-pillar workout system for kettlebells.

02:04:17.000 I have a movement-based exercise.

02:04:20.000 I had one with the body weight.

02:04:23.000 Now I came out with the kettlebell five-pillar movement system.

02:04:27.000 Just release that.

02:04:28.000 And I'm going to be making one with a barbell five-pillar.

02:04:32.000 Nice.

02:04:33.000 And here we go.

02:04:33.000 This is the website here, maxwellsc.com.

02:04:37.000 And you also custom tailor workouts for your clients through the internet, right?

02:04:43.000 I do.

02:04:43.000 I discovered a long time ago, about 15 years ago, that a lot of people, they don't need someone to handhold them through workouts.

02:04:51.000 They had the incentive to train, they just didn't know what to do.

02:04:54.000 So I do diet programs, fat loss programs for people, help them wade through all that huge information.

02:04:59.000 I've had my own personal diet wars with myself, and I pretty much figured out a way that you can keep lean year-round.

02:05:07.000 So I help people with diet, fat loss, and you know, what to do.

02:05:11.000 There's so much information and misinformation.

02:05:15.000 How do you put all this together, you know?

02:05:17.000 Yeah, it is difficult.

02:05:18.000 It's difficult to come up with a time to do all the research yourself.

02:05:21.000 And it's all based on goals, by the way.

02:05:23.000 There's so many different ways to crack the nut, so many different systems, and they all work, more or less.

02:05:28.000 It just all depends on what it is that the guy wants.

02:05:30.000 So people really need a lot of help just sorting that stuff out.

02:05:34.000 So that's what I do.

02:05:35.000 And extensive questionnaire.

02:05:37.000 I analyze photographs for structure, you know.

02:05:41.000 Postural stuff and then you get a custom workout program and you send me training logs and I review them and send the information back and do progressions with people and so forth.

02:05:52.000 Well, I can't recommend you highly enough.

02:05:55.000 Well, thanks.

02:05:56.000 I appreciate it.

02:05:56.000 All the years that we've been friends, I've just gained a tremendous amount of information from you and all the times we worked out together.

02:06:02.000 We're working out tomorrow, too.

02:06:03.000 Yeah, man. 0.99

02:06:04.000 Damn, Joe, those guns are... 0.99

02:06:07.000 Very excited about that. 0.99

02:06:08.000 So anybody who's interested in any sort of strength and conditioning workout, if you want to mix it up or just want to just tap into the database of knowledge, that is Steve Maxwell, maxwellsc.com.

02:06:19.000 And all of these upcoming seminar dates are all available there.

02:06:24.000 And you can all check out on Twitter.

02:06:27.000 It's maxwellsc on Twitter as well, right?

02:06:29.000 Yes, it is.

02:06:30.000 Steve Maxwell sc on Twitter, right?

02:06:31.000 Yeah, Steve Maxwell.

02:06:32.000 All right.

02:06:32.000 Thank you, brother.

02:06:33.000 Appreciate it, man.

02:06:34.000 Always a good time.

02:06:34.000 We're going to do this more often.

02:06:36.000 Fantastic.

02:06:36.000 You're a traveling nomad, though, man.

02:06:38.000 You're all over the world.

02:06:39.000 Thanks.

02:06:39.000 We got him here for a little bit.

02:06:40.000 All right, folks.

02:06:41.000 We'll be back tomorrow.

02:06:43.000 Take care.

02:06:44.000 Bye-bye.

02:06:45.000 Awesome, Joe.

02:06:46.000 Thanks, man.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 16, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #625 - Steve Maxwell

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript