The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #650 - Nick Curson

00:00:03.000 We're good?

00:00:03.000 We're live.

00:00:05.000 Is that echo thing going on anymore?

00:00:06.000 We killed that.

00:00:07.000 We're good?

00:00:08.000 Nick, how are you, buddy?

00:00:09.000 Pretty good.

00:00:10.000 Thanks for coming on.

00:00:11.000 So you got this hat on.

00:00:12.000 Nick Kurson, am I saying the last name correctly?

00:00:15.000 Kurson.

00:00:15.000 Kurson, yeah, like Kurson Hav.

00:00:16.000 You train Rafael dos Anjos, Ruslan Provodnikov, and you've got his hat on, Ruslan's hat on.

00:00:24.000 And it says, what does it say again?

00:00:26.000 It says, Ratsy Borat.

00:00:28.000 And in Russian, I believe that translates to something like young warrior or young fighter or something like that.

00:00:35.000 It's funny because I ran into a couple of Russians the other day and asked them if they knew what it meant.

00:00:40.000 And they didn't even know.

00:00:41.000 They just knew the last part was fighter and they didn't know what the first part meant.

00:00:44.000 So I don't know.

00:00:44.000 That guy is a character.

00:00:47.000 Provodnikov is one of my favorite fighters to watch because he can't be in a boring fight.

00:00:51.000 He doesn't have it in him.

00:00:53.000 I mean, that guy fights like the most exciting style of fighting in boxing today.

00:00:58.000 He just comes at you.

00:01:00.000 You know, he's just an animal.

00:01:02.000 Unfortunately, he takes a little too much punishment, though.

00:01:05.000 Yeah.

00:01:06.000 Well, he's almost too brave.

00:01:08.000 Yeah.

00:01:08.000 You know, almost too brave and too tough.

00:01:10.000 But fucking that fight with Matisse? 0.99

00:01:13.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

00:01:14.000 That was insanity.

00:01:15.000 Oh, my God.

00:01:15.000 That was what everybody was hoping Floyd Mayweather would be.

00:01:18.000 Mayweather Pacquiao.

00:01:19.000 That's what everybody was hoping it would be.

00:01:21.000 I was like, you guys are out of your mind.

00:01:23.000 You don't know what you're about to watch.

00:01:25.000 You guys are spending millions of dollars.

00:01:27.000 It's going to be like the biggest gate ever.

00:01:28.000 And what you're going to watch is a Floyd Mayweather exhibition on movement and jabbing and straight rights, lead right hands, clinch, get out of the way.

00:01:39.000 I mean, that's what you're going to say.

00:01:41.000 That's exactly what it was.

00:01:42.000 But Provodnikov, God! 0.95

00:01:45.000 How do you think the guys feel that tuned into the Chavez Jr. fight that night and missed the Matisse-Provonica fight? 0.99

00:01:51.000 They were silly. 1.00

00:01:53.000 They fucked up. 1.00

00:01:55.000 I watched both. 1.00

00:01:56.000 I mean, that's the beautiful thing about DVRs.

00:01:58.000 Chavez Jr. looks like he's phoning it in.

00:02:01.000 He just does not look like the same guy.

00:02:03.000 When he was younger and much more exciting and just looked like a real promising future champion.

00:02:09.000 He just doesn't have the volume anymore.

00:02:12.000 It doesn't look like he's in shape.

00:02:14.000 Fighting much heavier, right?

00:02:16.000 Yeah, that Matisse and Provanica fight with something else.

00:02:19.000 So you're a strength and conditioning coach, and one of the reasons why I wanted to call you in here is because I am absolutely fascinated by the Marinovichs, the guys who Taught you a lot of what you know and I'm also fascinated by just the boundaries of human potential when it comes to strength and conditioning because as As an analyst as a guy who sits there and watches fights and I've seen I don't even know how many fights but I've probably professionally called Several

00:02:50.000 thousand fights at this point.

00:02:51.000 I don't even know how many it's been really.

00:02:53.000 It's been at least 1500 or something of the best fights ever, right?

00:02:58.000 And you start seeing things over and over and over again and occasionally there's these outliers And these outliers are guys who just have way more gas than anybody else.

00:03:11.000 Guys who have way more ability to push deep into the fourth and fifth rounds.

00:03:16.000 And you wonder how much of what we're seeing in terms of what a fighter can do inside the octagon or inside the ring, how much of it is how much endurance they have.

00:03:28.000 And I maintain that it's a significant amount.

00:03:31.000 Absolutely.

00:03:32.000 I think it's everything.

00:03:33.000 It might be 90% of it or something.

00:03:36.000 At least.

00:03:36.000 Because it seems like everybody is pretty skillful once they get to the upper levels of the UFC. When you're dealing with a Pettis or a Dos Anjos or, you know, all across the board.

00:03:48.000 When you hit those high-level guys, they're all very skillful.

00:03:52.000 Some are better at certain aspects of fighting than others.

00:03:54.000 But it seems like the ones who can win and win the way Pettis and Dos Anjos went down, the way Dos Anjos just dominated Pettis.

00:04:03.000 Right. 0.99

00:04:03.000 You have to have a fucking insane gas tank. 0.99

00:04:06.000 Absolutely. 1.00

00:04:07.000 I don't know if you've seen my Instagram and seen some of the videos.

00:04:10.000 I did.

00:04:10.000 Oh, you did?

00:04:11.000 Yeah, I'm fascinated by it.

00:04:12.000 So, yeah, Rafael, when he first came to me, this was after the Cerrone fight, he'd tried several other strength and conditioning coaches, and after he came to me about two or three workouts in, he's like, wow, this is already amazing.

00:04:24.000 I feel the difference.

00:04:25.000 And that's when I began to assess, like, a long-term plan.

00:04:29.000 So when I first get a new athlete, I don't just look at the immediate fight.

00:04:33.000 I look where I want him to be about a year from now, six months from now, three or four fights from now, whatever.

00:04:39.000 But I kind of knew some things that were holding him back and areas that weren't trained properly that we needed to rectify.

00:04:46.000 What do you see when you start working out with a guy?

00:04:48.000 How do you analyze it?

00:04:50.000 First of all, you know what I'd like to do?

00:04:51.000 This is something that the Marinovichs did with BJ Penn.

00:04:55.000 First thing they did was they got a heart rate monitor on him.

00:04:57.000 And then they put him through sparring to find out what areas taxed him the most.

00:05:01.000 And then that's what they would kind of design the camp towards.

00:05:05.000 So, you know, if wrestling taxes you the most, then that's the energy system we need to train the most for you.

00:05:10.000 So, you know, like with BJ, he never had any problem with his long-term aerobic...

00:05:14.000 It was always his anaerobic energy systems.

00:05:17.000 So it was always sprinting.

00:05:19.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:05:20.000 It was always the big bursts.

00:05:20.000 Yeah, short bursts and long bursts.

00:05:22.000 Exactly, the entire amount.

00:05:23.000 The issue is the recovery from short bursts?

00:05:26.000 Absolutely.

00:05:27.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:05:29.000 So if your anaerobic systems aren't trained properly, you won't get that recovery in between the bursts.

00:05:34.000 And some guys will go their entire career without ever correcting that, and you're always going to be in this weird limbo state where you're scared to push it too hard.

00:05:43.000 Right, exactly.

00:05:45.000 Now, you take a guy like Rafael Dos Anjos that had beaten Donald Cerrone.

00:05:51.000 So when he came to you, he was already world-class, one of the best fighters in the division.

00:05:55.000 I think he was ranked 10th when I started with him.

00:05:58.000 So he's a good fighter.

00:06:00.000 And that time we began training for the Rustam.

00:06:02.000 He was scheduled to fight Rustam Khabib.

00:06:04.000 Exactly.

00:06:05.000 And we did pretty much a full training camp.

00:06:07.000 We did six weeks of training.

00:06:10.000 And then Kabila pulled out, I think, two weeks prior to the fight with a hurt finger or something.

00:06:15.000 And so then we had a break for about three weeks in between, and then he got the news that he's going to fight Khabib.

00:06:21.000 So he did another full training camp.

00:06:24.000 Prior to the Khabib fight, I actually left four weeks before the fight.

00:06:28.000 So we stopped strength and conditioning four weeks.

00:06:30.000 So he missed the complete peak training phase of the conditioning program.

00:06:37.000 Do you think that's one of the reasons why he lost that fight?

00:06:40.000 Partially, yeah.

00:06:41.000 I feel a little bit of a responsibility for that, sure. 1.00

00:06:44.000 Also, you have to admit, Khabib Nurmagomedov is a fucking monster. 1.00

00:06:48.000 He is. 1.00

00:06:48.000 He's a monster. 1.00

00:06:49.000 He's a good fighter. 1.00

00:06:51.000 I think, and I hate to make excuses, but I think if people understood what Rafael went through before that fight, they would be a little more accepting of the fact that he might kick Khabib's ass the next time they fight. 0.96

00:07:05.000 A lot of people are already saying Khabib's the new champion. 0.98

00:07:08.000 Rafael almost had his freaking eye gouged out.

00:07:11.000 The whites of his eyes, like this was during the training camp, so he had to take another couple weeks off in the middle of the training camp.

00:07:16.000 The whites of his eyes were literally hanging down from a guy's fingernails.

00:07:21.000 They were sparring, the guy poked his fingernails into his eyes, and the whites of the eyes, strips of it, were hanging down below his eyelid.

00:07:28.000 Oh, God.

00:07:29.000 Yeah.

00:07:30.000 So what'd they do to fix that?

00:07:32.000 I guess they just trimmed it off.

00:07:34.000 What?

00:07:34.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:07:35.000 They just trimmed it off and then let it...

00:07:37.000 Wait a minute.

00:07:38.000 You could trim the whites of your eyelid?

00:07:40.000 Apparently, yeah.

00:07:41.000 Oh, God.

00:07:42.000 Yeah. 0.90

00:07:43.000 Raphael's a monster.

00:07:44.000 Like, people don't understand. 0.71

00:07:46.000 Is it because the guy had fingernails?

00:07:48.000 He had fingernails, exactly.

00:07:49.000 And there's firing, and he went to push him back or something, and two fingers went right into his eye.

00:07:57.000 Jesus Christ. 0.98

00:07:57.000 You know, obviously he's not going to put that out there on the internet and show people, hey, look at my fucked up eye. 0.98

00:08:03.000 He should. 0.98

00:08:04.000 Well, now, have you seen his ear?

00:08:06.000 I don't know if you saw the picture of his ear.

00:08:09.000 This is recent?

00:08:10.000 No, this is the same thing leading up to the Khabib fight.

00:08:12.000 Prior to that, his ear was ripped off in the cage.

00:08:15.000 So his ear got stuck in between a couple of the links on the cage.

00:08:18.000 Oh, I have seen that picture.

00:08:19.000 And his ear was hanging on by a thread.

00:08:21.000 Yeah, there it is.

00:08:23.000 Jesus Christ.

00:08:25.000 So this is all going on during training camp.

00:08:27.000 Wow.

00:08:28.000 One thing after the other.

00:08:29.000 And then I leave four weeks out.

00:08:33.000 Not to mention he switched to a vegan diet.

00:08:35.000 What?

00:08:36.000 Yeah, for that fight.

00:08:37.000 Why did he do that?

00:08:37.000 I have no idea.

00:08:38.000 Who told him to do that?

00:08:39.000 I have no idea.

00:08:41.000 Do you have any response?

00:08:43.000 I just ate vegan lunch, by the way. 1.00

00:08:44.000 So I'm talking shit. 0.99

00:08:46.000 I eat a lot of vegan food. 1.00

00:08:47.000 I talk a lot of shit about vegans, but my diet consists mostly of vegan meals and murdered animals. 0.99

00:08:54.000 I combine those two. 1.00

00:08:55.000 That's pretty interesting.

00:08:56.000 I feel like it's very difficult to get everything you need from just vegetables, but I feel like you really can't eat enough vegetables.

00:09:05.000 I think vegetables are super important for you.

00:09:07.000 I think that it's one of the main issues that people suffer from when it comes to health and nutrition.

00:09:14.000 Even a lot of vegan people, they eat too much breads and pastas and rice and things along those lines.

00:09:20.000 I think you need a lot of vegetables.

00:09:22.000 I think it's super important for you.

00:09:23.000 It changes the way I think and feel.

00:09:25.000 Have you ever tried a supplement called DIM? What is it?

00:09:28.000 DIM? Yeah. 0.81

00:09:29.000 No, what is it?

00:09:29.000 What does it stand for?

00:09:30.000 Diendal Methane.

00:09:32.000 Hmm.

00:09:32.000 And it's supposedly like a concentration of all the cruciferous vegetables, but it helps lower estrogen levels.

00:09:39.000 It's got phytoestrogens.

00:09:40.000 Really?

00:09:40.000 So it helps your body metabolize estrogen.

00:09:44.000 And I tell you what, it actually works.

00:09:46.000 It gives you gnarly gas, but it works.

00:09:49.000 I don't know if I'm willing to make that trade-off.

00:09:51.000 No, dude.

00:09:52.000 It's worth it.

00:09:54.000 Take it on an empty stomach.

00:09:56.000 It's that bad?

00:09:58.000 Really?

00:09:59.000 Clear out the room, yeah.

00:09:59.000 Whoa!

00:10:00.000 Jesus Christ.

00:10:01.000 Easily, yeah. 0.55

00:10:02.000 Don't tell certain people that I know that enjoy blowing farts off, folks.

00:10:06.000 The other night, my fiancée and my baby woke up.

00:10:09.000 Oh, no!

00:10:09.000 I got a two-year-old and he's...

00:10:10.000 You woke the baby up?

00:10:12.000 Oh, good lord.

00:10:14.000 He was laughing.

00:10:14.000 Da-da-poopa.

00:10:15.000 Da-da-poopa. 0.98

00:10:16.000 Oh, no.

00:10:17.000 It's very funny.

00:10:18.000 Oh, no.

00:10:19.000 So who talked Dos Anjos into going vegan?

00:10:22.000 You know, I don't know, to be honest.

00:10:24.000 I don't remember.

00:10:24.000 I think he just kind of, something he wanted to try on his own.

00:10:27.000 And if you notice in that fight, he looks quite a bit smaller, too.

00:10:30.000 Like, his shoulders look smaller, and he looks...

00:10:32.000 Loss of muscle mass.

00:10:33.000 Yeah.

00:10:34.000 Well, you know, there's some health benefits to eating a lot of vegetables.

00:10:36.000 I just don't, I don't think there's enough evidence to promote veganism.

00:10:41.000 Right.

00:10:42.000 I just don't think it's worth, I think the trade-off is too significant.

00:10:46.000 Right.

00:10:46.000 And I think your body, I mean, we're omnivores.

00:10:49.000 It's just the way it is.

00:10:50.000 And especially when you're dealing with high-level athletes that are blowing down a lot of muscle tissue on a regular basis.

00:10:57.000 There's a lot of recovery that needs to be done.

00:10:58.000 If you're just a regular person going through life without any significant stress on your body, you probably can get through fine with it.

00:11:05.000 But I think for high-level athletes, it's very difficult to find a vegan high-level athlete, especially in explosive combat sports.

00:11:11.000 Right.

00:11:13.000 So you don't have anything to do with the diets of your fighters?

00:11:16.000 If a guy needs my help, then yeah, I'll do it.

00:11:18.000 But a lot of these guys now have nutritionists, so that kind of takes a lot of work off my back, workload off my back.

00:11:25.000 It's funny because fighters have a short window of time to be the best, right?

00:11:29.000 Right.

00:11:29.000 I mean, a fighter's career, like somebody pointed it out once, I think it was on mixedmartialarts.com, that there's like a nine-year period where a guy can really fight great.

00:11:38.000 Right.

00:11:39.000 And then after that, excuse me, the wheels just sort of start to fall off and just the body can only take so much.

00:11:45.000 Fighting, great.

00:11:46.000 Do you think that's a mental thing, though?

00:11:48.000 Do you think they get too comfortable and they lose their...

00:11:49.000 It's possible.

00:11:50.000 That's what I think.

00:11:51.000 Do you really?

00:11:52.000 Absolutely.

00:11:52.000 I think so.

00:11:53.000 Like, GSP quit at the right time.

00:11:55.000 You know what I mean?

00:11:56.000 He's got all these, like, GQ magazine things coming up, and I don't know how much money that guy's worth now, but he doesn't need to fight.

00:12:02.000 Right.

00:12:03.000 Yeah, maybe the same thing happened with BJ. Maybe he quit a little too late.

00:12:06.000 But, yeah, I think once they get too comfortable, I think then it's over.

00:12:10.000 It is possible.

00:12:11.000 I think the mental strain of camps is absolutely brutal on these guys.

00:12:16.000 I mean, you would know as good as anybody.

00:12:18.000 You know, I've been to high-level training camps.

00:12:22.000 I've watched guys go at it. 0.99

00:12:23.000 I've watched guys do their strength and conditioning routines, and it's fucking ungodly. 1.00

00:12:28.000 I barely can get through a fucking yoga class. 0.99

00:12:30.000 You know, these guys are doing two-a-days and strength and conditioning in the morning. 1.00

00:12:35.000 Beating the fuck out of each other at night and going home and exhausted.

00:12:38.000 One of the things that BJ said about training with the Marinovichs was it was just too much. 0.88

00:12:44.000 His performances were legendary.

00:12:46.000 Legendary.

00:12:47.000 So was the training really too much or had BJ had enough?

00:12:50.000 That's the question I would ask.

00:12:52.000 It's a good point.

00:12:53.000 You know what I mean?

00:12:54.000 By the time the Marinoviches got a hold of him, he'd already had a 10-plus year career.

00:12:57.000 Exactly.

00:12:58.000 Yeah.

00:12:59.000 Exactly. 0.96

00:12:59.000 But you look at that Diego Sanchez fight, I maintain there's very few people ever that fought at 155 that could fuck with BJ when he was in that mode. 0.96

00:13:08.000 Exactly. 1.00

00:13:08.000 Goddamn, he was a killer then. 1.00

00:13:10.000 Exactly. 0.99

00:13:12.000 It's funny because I just talked to Gary Marinovich about this the other day, you know, just to clarify why, what happened with those guys.

00:13:18.000 And it came down to what Gary explained to me was they'd reached a point in training where they were doing their strength training in the morning, then they had, you know, the sparring was going on in the afternoons, and PJ approached them and, you know, he wasn't like a dick about it or anything.

00:13:32.000 He was totally cool, like, hey, like, you know, How would you guys feel if we did the strength training on another day so I can do my sparring, you know, and I'm fresh for sparring?

00:13:42.000 And I think Marvin Gary took that as, you know, he wasn't ready for that.

00:13:47.000 He wasn't at that level yet where they're ready to back off the conditioning training and let him do that.

00:13:52.000 So, I mean, there's a method behind their training and it's very rational.

00:13:56.000 So I think the fact that he was questioning them at that point was just like enough.

00:14:00.000 Maybe there's some other stuff going on, I don't know, but I think the questioning of their abilities as trainers at that point, like as if they didn't know what they were doing, was enough to turn them off and kind of...

00:14:12.000 I think the mindset of fighters when it comes to strength and conditioning versus skill work is that it's very important to stay sharp with the skill work.

00:14:23.000 It's very difficult to do that if you're already exhausted from strength and conditioning.

00:14:27.000 So how do you find that balance?

00:14:29.000 Is it smarter to do the skill work in the morning and then the strength and conditioning later on in the evening?

00:14:34.000 How do you find that balance?

00:14:39.000 Are we talking about in general here?

00:14:40.000 Are we talking about what I would perceive for BJ? Either or.

00:14:44.000 Either or.

00:14:44.000 Okay, like if I was the Marinovichs...

00:14:45.000 If I was the Marinovichs, I probably would have done the same thing. 0.92

00:14:51.000 And maybe tone down the sparring a little bit.

00:14:53.000 BJ's already phenomenally skilled.

00:14:55.000 Maybe one of the most skilled fighters we've ever seen in the UFC. I was a fan of his before he was even in the UFC. I told people, this dude, when I saw him at tournaments, he's a blue belt.

00:15:04.000 I'm a black belt in jiu-jitsu, by the way.

00:15:07.000 So, I've seen these guys from the start.

00:15:10.000 I said, this kid's going to be freaking phenomenal.

00:15:12.000 I said the same thing about Nick Diaz, too, years ago.

00:15:15.000 When he was a purple belt, I'd see him at tournaments.

00:15:16.000 It was a blue belt, even.

00:15:18.000 I'd be like, this guy, when he gets, you watch, he's going to be a fighter, and he's going to be phenomenal.

00:15:22.000 Like, tear these guys up.

00:15:23.000 So, BJ's skill has never been in question.

00:15:26.000 Right there, that tells you, conditioning has always been the issue with BJ. I've never seen him outclassed, like, skill-wise by anybody.

00:15:34.000 You know, it's always been strength and conditioning that's cost him his fights.

00:15:38.000 What did you think when you saw his last fight with Frankie Edgar, when he adopted that very strange style? 0.99

00:15:43.000 I was blown away at how stupid that was. 1.00

00:15:45.000 I mean, that was just ridiculous. 1.00

00:15:46.000 Like, why would you... 0.66

00:15:48.000 Freddie Roach, I just had this conversation with Freddie Roach about a month ago.

00:15:51.000 He told me BJ Penn was one of the best boxers he's ever trained.

00:15:54.000 Really?

00:15:55.000 Like, even out of the boxers in the gym.

00:15:56.000 BJ Penn was one of the best natural boxers he's ever trained.

00:15:59.000 Wow.

00:16:00.000 For folks who don't know what we're talking about, BJ had adopted this very strange style that I've never seen before, where his feet were very close together...

00:16:08.000 And he was just moving really weird.

00:16:10.000 Standing upright, like a giraffe almost.

00:16:12.000 Completely straight up.

00:16:14.000 Instead of like the classic style of a stand-up fighter.

00:16:17.000 I mean, there's variables when it comes to stand-up fighting for MMA because you have a more squared-off stance because you want to have your hips in place for takedown defense.

00:16:27.000 But the classic stance is shoulders are up high, hands are right by the face, you know, head movement.

00:16:35.000 BJ did this weird thing where he looked almost like a guy playing, pretending to be a fighter.

00:16:43.000 He was doing this weird...

00:16:45.000 And he had said afterwards, which really bothered me, he said that he did it to conserve energy.

00:16:51.000 He felt like that conserved energy.

00:16:53.000 There it is again.

00:16:54.000 I thought he said because his trainers felt that he generated more force that way.

00:17:00.000 There's no way.

00:17:01.000 Absolutely.

00:17:01.000 That's totally impossible.

00:17:02.000 That's insane.

00:17:05.000 If your conditioning's there, you don't need to worry about conserving energy.

00:17:08.000 Right.

00:17:09.000 Okay, so what was the consensus like that made them part ways?

00:17:15.000 Because the performances that he put on when he was with the Marinovichs were legendary.

00:17:20.000 They really were.

00:17:20.000 Some of the best.

00:17:21.000 How many fights?

00:17:23.000 They did Florian, and then they did the Diego Sanchez fight, and then they left about five weeks out from the Frankie Edgar fight.

00:17:30.000 Really?

00:17:31.000 Yeah.

00:17:32.000 So five weeks.

00:17:32.000 This type of training needs to be done pretty much up until the day of the fight.

00:17:36.000 So they did train him a little bit for the Frankie Edgar fight?

00:17:38.000 Yeah, I think three weeks, maybe four weeks at the most.

00:17:40.000 And what happened?

00:17:41.000 That's when they had the discussion about changing up the program, like, can we do the conditioning on different days?

00:17:49.000 And so they just decided to walk away?

00:17:50.000 Yeah.

00:17:51.000 Wow.

00:17:52.000 They just felt it wasn't going the way they wanted.

00:17:54.000 That was a fight, too.

00:17:56.000 Yeah, I think they respected Frankie Edgar.

00:17:59.000 They said, this guy's going to be trouble.

00:18:00.000 This guy's coming to fight.

00:18:02.000 He's got a gas tank.

00:18:03.000 He's no pushover, you know. 1.00

00:18:05.000 He's a motherfucker. 1.00

00:18:06.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:18:07.000 He's a relentless motherfucker, which shows you how goddamn good Uriah Faber is. 1.00

00:18:10.000 Right. 1.00

00:18:11.000 Because they, you know, Uriah's fighting one weight class up.

00:18:14.000 Right.

00:18:14.000 You know, usually he fights at 135. He's fighting at 145, and they, you know, they went five rounds.

00:18:19.000 And, I mean, Frankie won a decision, but there was no point in a fight where he was going to finish Uriah.

00:18:24.000 No point where Uriah was in significant trouble.

00:18:27.000 You know, they were pretty much going blow for blow.

00:18:29.000 But Frankie was getting an edge in basically every round. 1.00

00:18:32.000 Uh-huh. 0.60

00:18:33.000 I think Frankie is one of the best conditioned guys, and I would love to find out what he does for his strength and conditioning, because he's never fucking tired.

00:18:41.000 He's always able to push that same pace every round, and that seems to be what separates the greats, the truly greats, from everybody else underneath them.

00:18:50.000 You know, it's funny, a lot of people are talking about the Dos Angeles Pettis fight, but between me and you and the rest of the world, in my opinion, Rafael was in better conditioning, better shape for the Benson Henderson fight.

00:19:04.000 Really?

00:19:04.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:05.000 This fight, he was injured.

00:19:06.000 So three weeks out, he injured his knee in a sparring accident, and so we had to change things up.

00:19:11.000 We couldn't do any more field work.

00:19:13.000 We couldn't do any more running or anything like that.

00:19:15.000 So we had to kind of modify it.

00:19:17.000 And that's when you see I got him doing the sprints on the Airdyne bicycle.

00:19:21.000 Pretty much something safe, you know.

00:19:24.000 Right.

00:19:25.000 But I had him at like 12,000 feet elevation.

00:19:28.000 Gradually, we built him up to that.

00:19:29.000 So we're at high altitude.

00:19:31.000 Yeah.

00:19:31.000 The Benson Henderson fight was incredibly impressive because he was the first guy to ever stop Benson with strikes.

00:19:37.000 And, you know, Benson is just notoriously durable, unbelievably tough, big for the weight class, and Dos Anjos just jumped all over him.

00:19:45.000 Yeah, destroyed him.

00:19:46.000 It was a big fight.

00:19:47.000 It was a big, like, whoa.

00:19:49.000 This guy's on another level right now.

00:19:51.000 That's why it kind of blew my mind, like, why people...

00:19:53.000 I hate to keep reminding you, but the closer you get to this, the better it is.

00:19:56.000 It sounds good to us, but the recording will be, like, weird.

00:19:59.000 I got you.

00:20:00.000 Sorry.

00:20:01.000 Do I need to repeat anything?

00:20:03.000 No, it's fine.

00:20:05.000 Like I said, I think he was in better shape for the Benson-Henderson fight.

00:20:10.000 I don't know why people couldn't see this coming.

00:20:13.000 Benson's just so good.

00:20:14.000 Look at how he handled Thatch. 1.00

00:20:17.000 Brandon Thatch is fucking huge and a killer. 1.00

00:20:20.000 That kid's big. 1.00

00:20:21.000 You ever see how big that kid is in real life? 1.00

00:20:23.000 He's fucking big. 0.99

00:20:25.000 He's a good size 185. And as a 170, he's fucking huge. 1.00

00:20:30.000 And Benson handled him. 0.98

00:20:31.000 Yeah.

00:20:32.000 So I think people just thought, hey, this is a great fight.

00:20:35.000 I mean, I didn't necessarily count Dos Anjos out, but I certainly didn't think he was going to stop him the way he did. 1.00

00:20:41.000 He just fucking beat his ass, man. 0.99

00:20:43.000 I thought it was going to be a really good fight. 1.00

00:20:47.000 That's what I thought.

00:20:47.000 I mean, Henderson, former champion, been there with some of the best ever.

00:20:51.000 I thought this was going to be a great fight.

00:20:53.000 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:20:54.000 I didn't.

00:20:55.000 I kind of knew, like, at the end of the training camp, the difference we'd made in that training camp in terms of speed...

00:21:02.000 And power and his stamina I just knew like I knew where he was before and I knew where he was after and I said he's just gonna destroy him like I hope I almost Wanted to go five rounds so he could show like what he was capable of wow yeah Well, that's pretty crazy that he you know when we found out after the Pettis fight where he won the title and just won by just Dominating the champion and a guy who Dana White had been pretty public saying he thought was the best pound-for-pound fighter in the sport and And,

00:21:32.000 you know, I didn't agree with that necessarily, but I certainly did think the kid was spectacular.

00:21:37.000 I mean, the way he stopped Donald Cerrone, the way he stopped Joe Lozon, I mean, he was capable of just unleashing these kicks out of nowhere to put people away. 0.97

00:21:45.000 He's just fucking good. 0.70

00:21:46.000 The way he armbarred Benson, I mean, he's just, and the way he caught Gilbert, too. 0.99

00:21:50.000 I mean, caught Gilbert in a guillotine, he's fucking good. 0.93

00:21:53.000 You think he caught Gilbert in that, or do you think it was almost... 0.97

00:21:56.000 I mean, I'm not saying the fight was rigged or anything, but Gilbert made a terrible mistake.

00:21:59.000 I mean, he's sitting on his knees with his head up.

00:22:01.000 He'd been tagged.

00:22:02.000 That's all it was.

00:22:03.000 He'd been hurt.

00:22:04.000 If you watch that fight, I watched it several times, Pettis had caught him several times with some pretty hard shots when Gilbert was coming in, because he knew Gilbert's strategy.

00:22:13.000 It was no secret.

00:22:14.000 Gilbert was just gonna, you know, stay on the outside a little bit, press him up against the cage.

00:22:19.000 It's the Clay Guida strategy, essentially, which was his first loss.

00:22:23.000 I mean, that was Pettis' first loss in the octagon.

00:22:26.000 When he first came to the UFC, he was the WEC champion, and Clay Guida beat him.

00:22:32.000 And everybody's like, well, welcome to the UFC, dude.

00:22:35.000 And everybody kind of knew, okay, well, this guy at least, at this stage of his career, is vulnerable to something like this.

00:22:42.000 Yeah.

00:22:43.000 But Gilbert just didn't have the same tools that Dos Anjos has.

00:22:47.000 Dos Anjos is much faster.

00:22:49.000 Much faster. 1.00

00:22:50.000 He's a fucking, he's a dangerous, dangerous guy. 1.00

00:22:52.000 Right now, yeah, he's extremely dangerous. 1.00

00:22:55.000 And his conditioning was off the charts.

00:22:57.000 And now when you tell me that his knee was hurt three weeks out, and he couldn't do anything but airdyne sprints, that's incredible.

00:23:04.000 I mean, that's amazing.

00:23:05.000 Yeah, well, they're at high altitude, too, so that's pretty...

00:23:08.000 How's he doing it at high altitude?

00:23:10.000 Well, I have an altitude simulator.

00:23:11.000 I have the hypoxic altitude simulator, not the little Velcro masks, but this is the actual one that thins the air and changes your blood oxygen levels.

00:23:19.000 So, I mean, it takes time to build up to that.

00:23:22.000 I wouldn't, like, recommend anyone go try it at 12,000 feet right now.

00:23:25.000 You're going to have, like, a seizure or something.

00:23:27.000 You know what I mean?

00:23:28.000 Maybe an aneurysm.

00:23:28.000 I don't know.

00:23:30.000 It took probably three weeks to get him to that point where he was able to sprint on that thing.

00:23:36.000 So, I mean, we've been building up for a while.

00:23:38.000 And, man, there's things obviously I can't tell you on the air because I don't want to give away too many secrets of people.

00:23:45.000 But I tell you, it was rigorous.

00:23:47.000 And there was times when I would watch, and I'd want to pull the plug and be like, hey, you know what I mean?

00:23:52.000 But you've got to listen to your gut.

00:23:54.000 And just keep pushing them and know what they can take.

00:23:57.000 Is that a factor, a big factor, when you're working with an athlete that you have to know what this athlete is capable of and where you're gonna break them?

00:24:05.000 Absolutely.

00:24:06.000 I think that's probably the most critical factor.

00:24:08.000 I think you hit it right on the head.

00:24:09.000 Because it seems like you're dancing that line, man.

00:24:13.000 There's a thin line, man.

00:24:14.000 And that's the way you get a guy better, right?

00:24:16.000 Exactly. 0.99

00:24:17.000 You gotta get him right to that fucking edge and then pull him back. 0.99

00:24:19.000 Have you seen the movie Whiplash? 1.00

00:24:21.000 Yes.

00:24:22.000 That basically sums it up right there.

00:24:24.000 That teacher was so good at what he did.

00:24:27.000 He brought out the best.

00:24:28.000 Oh, I got the wrong movie in my head.

00:24:30.000 You're talking about the music movie.

00:24:32.000 No, I didn't see that movie.

00:24:33.000 Dude, I'm not going to tell you about it.

00:24:34.000 It's insane.

00:24:34.000 Don't tell me about it, but I saw the ads.

00:24:36.000 He's screaming and yelling at somebody.

00:24:38.000 I was confused.

00:24:39.000 I'm like, how does that factor in?

00:24:40.000 I was thinking a totally different movie.

00:24:42.000 But it is.

00:24:42.000 It's the...

00:24:43.000 I was thinking of Crash.

00:24:44.000 Oh, Crash. 0.75

00:24:46.000 It's a totally different movie. 0.98

00:24:48.000 I'm like, how the fuck is he going to make this analogy? 0.97

00:24:50.000 Yeah, right? 0.98

00:24:53.000 No, but that's it.

00:24:54.000 The intuition and the eye.

00:24:55.000 I believe the eye is the most important in what you see and what your athlete's doing.

00:25:00.000 You see the speed deteriorate, then you've gone too far.

00:25:03.000 You need to know how to get your gut at peak in every exercise and then cut it off.

00:25:08.000 And what's the variability as far as recovery?

00:25:10.000 Does everybody, I mean, people must recover at different rates.

00:25:13.000 Absolutely.

00:25:15.000 It also depends on their past like conditioning too, you know what I mean?

00:25:18.000 So like if a guy's never had a certain type of aerobic or anaerobic training in his career, of course it's going to take a few more days to recover.

00:25:27.000 It's going to take a lot longer to develop.

00:25:29.000 That was one of the things that Uriah Faber said was one of the reasons why his team, that team alpha male, has so few injuries.

00:25:37.000 There's some camps that have amazing records as far as their fighters.

00:25:43.000 The fighters win great, but they have a giant amount of injuries.

00:25:47.000 But his camp, Team Alpha Male, occasionally guys get hurt, like TJ had to pull out of the head and burrow fight because of a broken rib.

00:25:53.000 But those are just bones.

00:25:54.000 You can only take so much.

00:25:57.000 Your bone is like, Benavidez said it best, a rib at the end of the day is just a rib.

00:26:01.000 And it can only take so much.

00:26:03.000 And when it breaks, it breaks.

00:26:04.000 But those guys are always in shape.

00:26:07.000 And Uriah was saying that it's like a lifestyle thing.

00:26:09.000 That they never get out of shape.

00:26:10.000 They're always training very hard.

00:26:11.000 They're always in peak condition.

00:26:13.000 So it's not about having to get into shape.

00:26:15.000 They're already in shape.

00:26:16.000 Well, I'd also wonder what kind of strength training they're doing.

00:26:19.000 And two to stay. 0.99

00:26:20.000 I mean, if they're doing heavy weightlifting and you're doing that year-round, you're going to get fucked up. 0.99

00:26:24.000 It's just going to happen. 0.98

00:26:25.000 It destroys the muscular equilibrium.

00:26:28.000 It's been proven.

00:26:30.000 So...

00:26:31.000 If you've got a good program and it helps maintain the health of the athletes, then that's something.

00:26:38.000 Now when you say that heavy weightlifting destroys the equilibrium of the athlete, what exactly do you mean by that?

00:26:44.000 So what I mean by that is, let's say you're doing bicep curls, for example, and you're doing heavy weightlifting, you're doing heavy bicep curls, you're shortening that bicep.

00:26:57.000 Right?

00:26:58.000 We know that as the muscle gets bigger, it gets shorter because of the cross-bridging.

00:27:02.000 So when you shorten one muscle, you lengthen the opposite muscle.

00:27:05.000 And that puts the joint and the tendons and ligaments at risk for injury.

00:27:09.000 Hmm.

00:27:10.000 So if you do, like say if you're doing something along the lines of bicep curls, it must be critical that you do tricep extensions or dips or something along those lines.

00:27:19.000 Absolutely.

00:27:19.000 But what's even more important is to engage the tendons and ligaments.

00:27:25.000 The elastic components of the connective tissue.

00:27:28.000 So the muscular tendon unit as a whole.

00:27:31.000 And now that's a whole nother level.

00:27:33.000 It requires a certain amount of eccentric overload.

00:27:36.000 Eccentric would be like the movement coming downward.

00:27:38.000 Like when you do a bench press, the negative portion of that, that's the eccentric portion of the lift, has to come down with approximately 40% greater force downward than it goes up to maintain muscular equilibrium.

00:27:51.000 How do you do that?

00:27:52.000 Well, biometrics.

00:27:53.000 Like, plyometrics are a perfect example of that.

00:27:55.000 So, like, you would not just incorporate bench press, you would do...

00:28:00.000 Like a plyometric bench press.

00:28:02.000 How does that work?

00:28:03.000 I don't know if you have video or anything like that.

00:28:06.000 You can probably see it on my Instagram.

00:28:10.000 You've probably seen BJ Penn doing it too.

00:28:14.000 So, plyometric bench press.

00:28:17.000 Yeah, as opposed to a traditional bench press.

00:28:19.000 And what happens with that is, I can describe it if he brings it up, or I can describe it now if you like.

00:28:24.000 Do you see anything on Instagram?

00:28:27.000 Is it, uh, Speed of Sport?

00:28:29.000 Yeah, you can go, yeah, Instagram Speed of Sport, and then if you scroll down, you might see one.

00:28:33.000 Alright, he'll find it here.

00:28:34.000 Here we go.

00:28:35.000 Plyometric Ballistic Bench Press.

00:28:37.000 I don't know if I'd use that one, to be honest.

00:28:38.000 No?

00:28:39.000 Why?

00:28:39.000 I don't know, let's check it out.

00:28:41.000 Is that somebody else?

00:28:42.000 Uh, yeah, that's not me, no, no, no.

00:28:44.000 Oh, okay.

00:28:45.000 Let's see this guy.

00:28:46.000 Uh...

00:28:46.000 He's throwing it?

00:28:47.000 A little too slow on the way down.

00:28:49.000 Uh, you can type in Speed of Sport on YouTube and you can find it, too.

00:28:56.000 Okay.

00:28:56.000 There we go.

00:28:57.000 If you click on that one right there.

00:28:58.000 Here we go.

00:29:00.000 You'll see a couple of the- Marinovich training systems.

00:29:02.000 Yeah, you'll see a couple of the guys.

00:29:03.000 Whoa. 0.99

00:29:04.000 Some serious fucking jumps. 0.99

00:29:05.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:29:06.000 Is that a girl?

00:29:07.000 Yeah.

00:29:08.000 Really?

00:29:08.000 No.

00:29:09.000 Is this a dude with crazy hair?

00:29:11.000 Yeah.

00:29:11.000 I was like, that's the most badass chick of all time.

00:29:14.000 If you find a chick who can jump like that, that's like the Ronda Rousey of box jumpers. 1.00

00:29:19.000 Right.

00:29:20.000 Yeah, that looks like a girl. 1.00

00:29:21.000 Yeah.

00:29:22.000 Up until you go, wait, what has she been doing with her endocrine system? 1.00

00:29:27.000 Exactly.

00:29:27.000 Jesus Christ!

00:29:29.000 These are crazy jumps, man.

00:29:32.000 Yeah.

00:29:33.000 So this kid came to me.

00:29:34.000 This was about five weeks after a grade two ankle sprain.

00:29:37.000 So you can see the heels don't even touch there.

00:29:39.000 It's just all balls of the feet and the toes.

00:29:41.000 So this is similar to what like an iso, excuse me, a plyometric bench press would look like, but we're doing it with the feet right there.

00:29:49.000 So these jumps, like you're big obviously on explosive movements.

00:29:55.000 Absolutely, yeah.

00:29:56.000 So this thing is, I've seen this on the BJ Penn training things.

00:30:00.000 This kid is sitting with his back, he's lying on his back rather, but his butt has a bounce ball under it and then there's this padded thing above him that he keeps kicking up.

00:30:09.000 And what's the philosophy behind that?

00:30:12.000 First of all, you learn how to control your limb better.

00:30:14.000 When you're upside down like that and there's no load, you get greater control of your limb.

00:30:19.000 At the same time, you can work the full extension of the foot, which is crucial in pretty much every sport.

00:30:27.000 So he's catching these, he's got these things for arms too now.

00:30:30.000 So that's like a plyometric movement right there for the upper body right there.

00:30:33.000 So it's explosive.

00:30:34.000 Now, what's interesting is that these, other than this particular exercise, those are machines.

00:30:39.000 Right.

00:30:39.000 And a lot of people have this idea.

00:30:41.000 Right here.

00:30:41.000 This one, Joe, right there.

00:30:42.000 Okay, so this is the bench.

00:30:44.000 Yeah.

00:30:45.000 Okay, so you catch it with your hands.

00:30:47.000 There's pads.

00:30:48.000 So he's throwing it off.

00:30:50.000 So he's maximizing his contraction as it comes off.

00:30:53.000 He's not shorting his reach.

00:30:55.000 He's got to produce a great amount of force to throw that off his fingers.

00:30:58.000 That last thing he did was crazy.

00:31:00.000 His balance ball thing?

00:31:01.000 This is nuts.

00:31:02.000 That's some incredible movement.

00:31:04.000 He's a three-time national champion for Taekwondo.

00:31:09.000 Jesus Christ.

00:31:10.000 That kid is ridiculously flexible. 1.00

00:31:13.000 Look at that fucking leg. 1.00

00:31:15.000 What's that kid's name? 1.00

00:31:16.000 Ryan Tucker.

00:31:17.000 Wow, where is he out of?

00:31:19.000 Uh, Torrance, California.

00:31:21.000 And he's a national Taekwondo champion?

00:31:23.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:31:23.000 That's, you know, Taekwondo has its faults, but goddamn, when it comes to leg dexterity, some of those guys have the most unbelievable leg dexterity. 0.96

00:31:32.000 And if you could teach them all the other skills, Muay Thai, wrestling, all this stuff, they have such a weird advantage with their legs. 0.90

00:31:39.000 Right. 0.98

00:31:39.000 Like, looking at that guy, how many fucking people can do that? 0.98

00:31:42.000 Not many. 1.00

00:31:43.000 That's nuts.

00:31:43.000 Not with that kind of range of motion.

00:31:45.000 And he's doing it with ankle weights on?

00:31:46.000 Is that what's going on there?

00:31:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:47.000 How much pounds?

00:31:49.000 Probably like two and a half pounds.

00:31:50.000 Which is very light.

00:31:50.000 Yeah, just enough to get a stretch out of the muscle.

00:31:53.000 Okay, so that's what you're trying to do.

00:31:54.000 Yeah, the whole method here is a stretch shortening cycle.

00:31:57.000 So you want to stretch the muscle before you shorten it.

00:32:02.000 So stretch it before you contract it.

00:32:04.000 So like Planometrics do the same thing.

00:32:05.000 They put the tendons, ligaments, and muscle on stretch, and then it snaps back with greater force.

00:32:10.000 So that's called the stretch shortening cycle.

00:32:12.000 So now, the benefit of that is it trains fast twitch at a speed also that's relevant to the sport.

00:32:19.000 So if you're not training at the speed of sport, you're training any slower than that, you're training slow twitch.

00:32:24.000 You're doing a detrimental exercise for your sport.

00:32:28.000 So anytime you're doing like a heavy lift that's slow, you think that that's bad for the sport?

00:32:36.000 Absolutely, without a doubt.

00:32:37.000 That's interesting.

00:32:39.000 Well, it is, but it makes sense.

00:32:41.000 The best athletes are the ones that have the highest rate of force development.

00:32:45.000 The ones that can produce the greatest amount of force in the least amount of time.

00:32:50.000 So that means like a guy that can, you know, I don't know jump and touch his head on the ceiling versus a guy you know in a split second versus a guy would take him three or four seconds to get up there right so that would be the comparison between a plyometric bench press like I just showed you on the video there as compared to like a 225 250 pound bench press so you're a big fan of doing everything just exploding and everything absolutely that's interesting because there is a school of thought especially along with jujitsu guys where they like super

00:33:20.000 slow training and Yeah.

00:33:22.000 Where they do like a chin-up and each chin-up takes like 15-20 seconds.

00:33:25.000 Yeah.

00:33:26.000 Have you seen that?

00:33:26.000 Yeah.

00:33:27.000 What do you think about that?

00:33:28.000 Pretty much that's an isotonic contraction.

00:33:30.000 I don't see how that even helps jujitsu at all either.

00:33:33.000 Well, the idea is that if you get someone's back and you're working the choke, you know, like your arms might gas out, but this way they won't.

00:33:39.000 Matt, I'll tell you right now, as soon as...

00:33:42.000 The whole thing with BJ Penn opened my eyes to so many different things.

00:33:46.000 And what I felt when I was training with him was there was no strength.

00:33:49.000 His technique was so precisely timed that he needed absolutely no strength.

00:33:54.000 Literally no strength.

00:33:55.000 It was more about timing and the speed at which he moved.

00:33:59.000 And so if you're squeezing a guy, maybe you need to brush up on your technique a little bit.

00:34:03.000 You know what I mean?

00:34:04.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:34:05.000 You've trained with John Jock, I take it?

00:34:07.000 Yep.

00:34:08.000 Okay, when I started jiu-jitsu, I started with Hickson Gracie.

00:34:10.000 I was there for three years.

00:34:12.000 I got my blue belt from Hickson.

00:34:13.000 And then I went to the Machado School in Redondo Beach.

00:34:16.000 And I went there at a time when you show up on Saturdays, John Jock, John, Hegan, Hodger, they're all on the mat there training with the students.

00:34:24.000 Plus, you have Bob Bass, you have Rick Williams, you have all these great black belts underneath them who are there training with all the students.

00:34:30.000 Def.

00:34:30.000 And so, dude, how can you beat that?

00:34:33.000 That's amazing.

00:34:33.000 You know what I mean?

00:34:34.000 You show up and these guys have these red things on their black belt.

00:34:37.000 You're like, what the heck is this, man?

00:34:38.000 I don't even know.

00:34:39.000 What planet is this?

00:34:41.000 Are these guys good?

00:34:44.000 You know what I mean? 1.00

00:34:45.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:34:46.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:34:46.000 Dude, but you've trained with John Jock. 1.00

00:34:48.000 You feel how he just...

00:34:49.000 Effortless.

00:34:50.000 Whatever you do, it's like you do it to yourself.

00:34:52.000 You know what I mean?

00:34:53.000 It was the same thing with BJ Penn.

00:34:55.000 It's like I was a decent black belt.

00:34:57.000 I was okay when I first got my black belt. 0.97

00:35:00.000 And then after training with BJ and those guys, man, being in that training camp, it completely opened my mind to, fuck, I've been doing everything wrong for the last 20 years. 0.95

00:35:10.000 How so? 0.98

00:35:12.000 Forcing things.

00:35:13.000 I was forcing everything.

00:35:14.000 My workouts, I was forcing everything.

00:35:16.000 I was pushing myself to the limit.

00:35:17.000 I was lifting heavy weights.

00:35:18.000 I could squat 425 pounds.

00:35:21.000 I could bench 305. I weighed 168 pounds.

00:35:23.000 So people can talk to me all they want about weightlifting, but I tell you right now, I am far stronger than I've ever been.

00:35:30.000 I might not look it, but...

00:35:32.000 You look great.

00:35:33.000 Don't be hard on yourself.

00:35:34.000 Thanks, man.

00:35:35.000 You don't think I'm into a nose job or anything?

00:35:36.000 No, you look wonderful.

00:35:38.000 You're a handsome man.

00:35:39.000 Thank you.

00:35:42.000 It's the way the body moves as a unit as compared to weightlifting which actually fragments muscle groups.

00:35:49.000 So things along the lines of like bench presses and curls and things along those lines?

00:35:56.000 Absolutely.

00:35:56.000 In a sense it's detraining the body.

00:35:59.000 But what about guys who want to bulk up?

00:36:02.000 Like Mackie Shillstone when he trained to Vander Holyfield to get him up to heavyweight and he had him do all this crazy weightlifting stuff.

00:36:10.000 What do you think about that?

00:36:11.000 A lot of that's genetics.

00:36:12.000 Really?

00:36:13.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:36:13.000 A lot of that's Mexican supplements.

00:36:15.000 It could be.

00:36:16.000 It could be.

00:36:17.000 Very well.

00:36:18.000 But I think genetics play a huge role in that and what your frame can handle.

00:36:23.000 There's an optimal size for your frame.

00:36:25.000 You know what I mean?

00:36:26.000 Like, guys, I've seen all too many times guys have put on more muscle than their body can handle and their performance deteriorates.

00:36:32.000 Sure.

00:36:33.000 You know what I mean?

00:36:33.000 Evander was a fairly big guy already.

00:36:35.000 Yeah.

00:36:35.000 So he can handle it with his frame.

00:36:37.000 Plus, yeah, you have to look at the genetics of the athlete, too.

00:36:40.000 But if you take a guy like, perfect example, maybe like Michael Jordan. 0.99

00:36:44.000 When Michael Jordan was playing against the Pistons, like one of the things he realized, like, Jesus fuck, I'm getting pushed around, I'm getting my ass kicked. 0.99

00:36:51.000 I gotta bulk up. 0.99

00:36:53.000 When a guy wants to bulk up, there's very few ways to bulk up other than lifting heavy, right?

00:36:59.000 I would say...

00:37:02.000 No.

00:37:02.000 First of all, let me say this.

00:37:05.000 I think there's too much of an emphasis on getting bigger.

00:37:07.000 And it might have been more advisable to train your body.

00:37:11.000 Maybe there were certain weaknesses in his hips or his feet or lower back or obliques that were making him weaker.

00:37:18.000 I've seen plenty of guys whose bodies are working as a unit, like with the type of training that I offer, that can literally bully guys that are way bigger, more muscular, and it all comes down to the efficiency of the movement.

00:37:32.000 Right.

00:37:33.000 You know what I mean?

00:37:34.000 But a guy, like, here's a good example. 0.99

00:37:36.000 A guy like Brock Lesnar, you can't get that fucking big unless you're throwing some really heavy shit around. 0.99

00:37:45.000 Yeah, or taking Mexican supplements. 0.99

00:37:47.000 A little bit of both.

00:37:48.000 A little bit of both, right?

00:37:50.000 Yeah.

00:37:50.000 No, you're absolutely right.

00:37:51.000 I mean, there is...

00:37:53.000 But again, it...

00:37:56.000 Then again, look at a guy like Cain Velasquez who beat him with more or less the BJ Penn approach.

00:38:02.000 Exactly.

00:38:03.000 You look at Cain, when Cain's throwing a punch, you never see like...

00:38:06.000 There's no tension.

00:38:07.000 That's the efficiency.

00:38:09.000 That's actually a good point because that's been proven that...

00:38:13.000 Repetitive bouts of absolute strength training, which is like your maximum strength training, like maximum bench press, the heavy lifts, will deteriorate a boxer's punching power and accuracy.

00:38:24.000 Really?

00:38:24.000 That's been proven by the Russians.

00:38:26.000 Deteriorate?

00:38:27.000 That's fascinating.

00:38:28.000 And it can last for up to several months.

00:38:32.000 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:38:33.000 Okay, so like say if a guy goes through your conventional strength program, deadlifts, bench press, that can deteriorate his punching power.

00:38:45.000 Because it deteriorates the speed strength qualities.

00:38:48.000 There's different types of strength.

00:38:50.000 Speed strength is one that emphasizes speed.

00:38:54.000 It would be like maybe like 60% speed, 40% strength.

00:38:57.000 Like if I had to put a ratio on it.

00:38:59.000 The emphasis is primarily on speed.

00:39:02.000 Every sport is won by a fraction of a second just about.

00:39:05.000 You know what I mean?

00:39:06.000 Like even like a basketball team that's dominating the entire season.

00:39:10.000 There's something about every play that might be one thousandth of a second faster than the other teams that's making them better.

00:39:17.000 And then at the end, it's cumulative.

00:39:18.000 It all adds up and it compounds on top of each other.

00:39:21.000 So at the end of the game, it's a mismatch.

00:39:23.000 Wow.

00:39:24.000 So even the Pettis fight was closer than people think.

00:39:28.000 It was a fraction of a second difference between Rafael's striking and Pettis' striking.

00:39:33.000 Every time?

00:39:34.000 Every time.

00:39:35.000 And that compounds and compounds and compounds.

00:39:37.000 Wow.

00:39:38.000 That's a funny way to look at it, but I think you're right.

00:39:40.000 You know, when he landed that straight left in the first round, and you see Pettis' head snap back, I was stunned, first of all, by the speed in which he threw that shot.

00:39:50.000 I was very impressed with his speed, but also...

00:39:55.000 That, you know, he was able to keep that speed up through the fourth and fifth rounds.

00:40:00.000 I mean when he nailed him in the first round, I mean Pettis said from then on he was having a hard time seeing out of that eye. 0.96

00:40:06.000 He was getting pretty much fucked from then on. 0.98

00:40:07.000 Right. 0.77

00:40:08.000 That was super impressive because if you go back and watch his earlier fights, like go back and watch him against Jeremy Stephens early in his career where he lost by knockout, like the THE Stephens highlight reel, He just was a different guy. 0.99

00:40:22.000 Different fucking human being.

00:40:24.000 I mean, very few guys, when you look at their early UFC career and then look at their peak performance, which Dos Anjos clearly is in his peak. 0.99

00:40:32.000 He just won the title against one of the best guys ever in that division.

00:40:35.000 But he's a different human being all around. 0.99

00:40:38.000 The funny thing is, I don't really read too much on the internet, but I had to with this one, you know, with people saying PEDs and all this shit. 0.98

00:40:47.000 I see comments, there's no strength training program that can do that. 0.97

00:40:51.000 If you look, it's been going on for a year, you know, we've been building it up.

00:40:56.000 So if you compare, like I said, like his fight with Cerrone, he's really stiff.

00:41:00.000 He told me himself by the third round he was like gassy, he was fatigued.

00:41:04.000 And so this isn't like one training camp.

00:41:08.000 I mean, this has been going on for a year of really good training where he and I are training like three or four times a week.

00:41:13.000 I mean, you know, granted, except for the times in between fights when he's got his downtime.

00:41:18.000 But I mean, he's been very consistent with it.

00:41:21.000 And after about three months of this is when you see the tendons, ligaments, and everything really start working as a unit, and that's when the power and everything really come into play.

00:41:32.000 So say if you took a guy, like, let's just pull a guy out of the roster.

00:41:37.000 Let's go with Matt Matreon, big heavyweight, fast guy, moves really well for a heavyweight.

00:41:43.000 What would you do with a guy like that?

00:41:45.000 First thing, the guy comes to me the first day, I'm going to do muscle tests on him and find out what's going on with his body and find out if there's any types of weaknesses like in his feet and the rotational power of his hips, lower back, especially a big guy, lower back and lower abdominal cavity, flexibility in his shoulders.

00:42:02.000 I can't stress that enough for punching power.

00:42:05.000 There's an optimal range of motion where you produce the greatest amount of force in all of your joints.

00:42:13.000 I mean, that's pretty easy to understand, right?

00:42:16.000 So if my shoulder flexibility is here, I'm going to lose speed.

00:42:24.000 If it's tense.

00:42:25.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:42:26.000 If it's too short, you're going to lose speed.

00:42:27.000 Too long, you're going to lose speed.

00:42:29.000 Too long?

00:42:30.000 Yeah, there's too flexible.

00:42:31.000 Really?

00:42:32.000 Yeah, there's too much slack in the muscle.

00:42:35.000 So, how would a guy get too flexible in his shoulders?

00:42:38.000 Some people are born with that.

00:42:39.000 You know what I mean?

00:42:40.000 That can be a genetic thing.

00:42:42.000 Or, like, swimmers tend to have a lot of flexibility in the shoulders.

00:42:45.000 But, I mean, for their sport, that's okay because they're kind of dragging that resistance, that slower resistance.

00:42:51.000 But for a snap in the muscle, there's got to be just the right amount of tension in order for that muscle to activate at its quickest.

00:43:00.000 So if it's too long, imagine like a rubber band.

00:43:03.000 If there's slack in the rubber band, you can't get the snap out of it.

00:43:07.000 Oh, okay.

00:43:07.000 I see.

00:43:08.000 And then does that make one more prone to injuries as well?

00:43:12.000 Absolutely.

00:43:12.000 It can cause joint instability, impingement, all kinds of stuff like that.

00:43:17.000 I've heard of that with knees.

00:43:19.000 Absolutely.

00:43:19.000 And that goes back to the muscular equilibrium thing I was talking about.

00:43:22.000 So let's imagine you're doing heavy front squats every day or like three times a week, you know, 80% of your one rep max or whatever, and you're doing your maxes on one every other week or whatever.

00:43:33.000 You're developing those quadriceps at the expense of the hamstrings.

00:43:36.000 It's not even a running movement, really.

00:43:39.000 Just a front squat.

00:43:40.000 That's just a movement up and down.

00:43:41.000 That's good for like putting groceries on the top of a shelf or something like that.

00:43:44.000 Mm-hmm.

00:43:45.000 Okay.

00:43:46.000 So yeah, you're going to shorten those quadricep muscles.

00:43:48.000 You're going to build them and make them bigger and shorter.

00:43:53.000 And what happens with the hamstring?

00:43:54.000 It gets longer and weaker.

00:43:56.000 So now you've got an imbalance between the two.

00:43:59.000 So if someone was going to do front squats, they would have to do something to compensate for that?

00:44:04.000 Like maybe some sort of a deadlift, straight leg deadlift or something that hamstring oriented?

00:44:09.000 Again, then you're training the hamster.

00:44:11.000 You know, let's put it this way.

00:44:12.000 It depends on the sport they're going to do.

00:44:14.000 But if it's a fighter, I'm not going to have them doing that.

00:44:18.000 No squats?

00:44:19.000 No.

00:44:20.000 It's not practical for the sport.

00:44:23.000 One of the most vital elements for fighting, in my opinion, and is neglected, is the feet.

00:44:28.000 Like you hear Marv talk about the feet.

00:44:31.000 I talk about the feet all the time.

00:44:33.000 The strength in the feet and what it does for the nervous system are crucial for athletic performance, and yet it's like one of the most neglected areas.

00:44:42.000 The feet, like the neural impulses, so the sensory and motor nerves are very highly active in the forefoot.

00:44:50.000 Okay.

00:44:50.000 And this can actually help speed up your reflexes by hyper-training the feet on different planes, like balance exercises and stuff like that.

00:45:00.000 We'll actually speed up that circuitry between the reaction between the foot and the spinal cord through, you know, as you speed up the neural impulses.

00:45:09.000 Speed up the neural impulses by strengthening the feet.

00:45:12.000 By...

00:45:13.000 With, like, reactive exercises like balance exercises on, like, slant boards and discs and stuff that force the feet to stay reactive.

00:45:22.000 Like, for example, that reaction can kind of relay into the whole body, you know, can...

00:45:48.000 I see.

00:45:52.000 So your body has sort of a fail-safe?

00:45:54.000 Exactly.

00:45:54.000 So it's like, hey, there's no weight on the feet.

00:45:56.000 Put your fucking hands out, dude! 1.00

00:45:58.000 Exactly. 1.00

00:45:59.000 But your brain doesn't even know that's going on.

00:46:01.000 Too late.

00:46:02.000 Right.

00:46:03.000 If it did, it would have to...

00:46:04.000 Exactly.

00:46:04.000 Okay, I see.

00:46:05.000 So by hyper-training the feet, you keep the body in sort of a ready state for reaction.

00:46:10.000 And, you know, it's like manipulating the safety device to increase sports performance.

00:46:15.000 The guys at the Onnit gym were telling me that Cub Swanson does virtually all of his workouts on a balance board.

00:46:21.000 He does either a balance board or a balance ball, like everything he does is all...

00:46:24.000 Yeah, and he's extremely athletic.

00:46:25.000 Yes.

00:46:26.000 Yeah.

00:46:27.000 So when you're doing these heavy lifting, it deadens that impulse.

00:46:32.000 It slows it down.

00:46:34.000 And not to mention you're neglecting the forefoot.

00:46:37.000 All these exercises are pretty much done on the heel.

00:46:40.000 You know, I was squatting.

00:46:42.000 I remember you're taught to press through the heel.

00:46:45.000 Deadlifting, the same thing.

00:46:46.000 So you're training over and over these movements that are not practical for a sports movement, which pretty much every sport is played on the forefoot.

00:46:55.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:46:56.000 Like, you never really, in a sport, you very rarely push off the back of the foot.

00:47:00.000 You're kind of moving forward when you're punching the back heels off the ground.

00:47:03.000 Absolutely.

00:47:05.000 And so, knowing that, it's kind of like, why are we doing this?

00:47:10.000 Right.

00:47:12.000 It's improper training.

00:47:14.000 I mean, it really makes sense.

00:47:15.000 Like, Marv's been preaching this for years, you know, and people just kind of scoff at it, and you say, oh, no, I've got to get my heavy back squat in.

00:47:23.000 Yeah, that's fine, but maybe this can help you with it.

00:47:26.000 You know, start training the feet, looking at what we're talking about here, and the sequence of muscles that you're going to start firing when you do start training the feet.

00:47:35.000 How's this?

00:47:36.000 A better option for squatting would be a front squat. 0.93

00:47:41.000 And now let's say you take a couple 45-pound plates and you put them under the balls of your feet.

00:47:45.000 So now you're engaging more of a sports movement.

00:47:48.000 You're on the balls of your feet and you're loading up the front instead of the back.

00:47:52.000 Back squat is technically a lower back exercise.

00:47:54.000 It really hits the lumbar and hits the lower back a lot.

00:47:57.000 The front squat is going to hit more quadriceps, more muscles required for jumping, you know what I mean?

00:48:02.000 As well as the core and stabilizing the spine with the abdominals and everything.

00:48:07.000 So that's just a thought, like maybe you can do that.

00:48:10.000 You think like start thinking in that process where you're training from the feet up, the forefoot up, not just the heels, but the forefoot up and you'll start connecting different muscles required for sports movements.

00:48:23.000 We were talking before the podcast that I'm really getting into yoga recently, the last couple weeks.

00:48:28.000 I've been into it.

00:48:28.000 And one of the things that is really shocking to me is how much my feet hurt.

00:48:34.000 Yeah.

00:48:35.000 Like all the balancing.

00:48:36.000 My feet give out before a lot of other stuff.

00:48:39.000 But I do so many things barefoot.

00:48:41.000 I lift barefoot, I kickbox, jujitsu, all that stuff's barefoot.

00:48:46.000 Right.

00:48:46.000 But for whatever reason, Like, just standing there, holding your foot up in the air and stretching out.

00:48:52.000 My foot is the one that's having a hard time dealing with all that.

00:48:55.000 Really?

00:48:55.000 Yeah.

00:48:56.000 That's pretty interesting.

00:48:56.000 Well, obviously I have weak feet in some weird way.

00:49:00.000 Yeah.

00:49:01.000 It's just, it was never tested before.

00:49:06.000 The problem with that is, when you do have weakness in the feet, other things start to compensate, like your hips.

00:49:11.000 Your hips start to compensate for the weakness in the feet.

00:49:14.000 I see a lot of guys with flat feet, they have poor hip abduction and adduction, or tight hamstrings.

00:49:20.000 Flat-footed guys, Almost always are a little hamstring dominant when they're sprinting.

00:49:25.000 They're good at the acceleration phase, but the top speed is lacking.

00:49:30.000 I have flat feet.

00:49:31.000 Do you?

00:49:31.000 Yeah.

00:49:32.000 Do you get tight in the hamstrings?

00:49:33.000 Not really.

00:49:34.000 No?

00:49:34.000 No.

00:49:35.000 That might be the exception to the rule.

00:49:36.000 We'll have very flexible hamstrings.

00:49:38.000 Probably the weed.

00:49:39.000 Weed?

00:49:39.000 Yeah.

00:49:40.000 You think?

00:49:40.000 I don't know.

00:49:41.000 That's my hamstrings.

00:49:42.000 No, I'm just kidding.

00:49:43.000 No, I just grew up doing Taekwondo, so I think I have a lot of hamstring flexibility.

00:49:48.000 So for whatever reason, I don't have tension back there.

00:49:52.000 But I definitely have flat feet.

00:49:54.000 Kelly Starr, you know Kelly?

00:49:57.000 He wrote that book, The Supple Leopard.

00:49:58.000 Is he the CrossFit guy?

00:49:59.000 Yeah.

00:50:00.000 He wrote a book called The Supple Leopard.

00:50:02.000 He doesn't even believe in flat feet.

00:50:05.000 He said it's like you're sort of almost like learning from people around you to walk and stand a certain way, and it's almost like a laziness of the posture of your foot.

00:50:15.000 To paraphrase him.

00:50:16.000 Well, I don't know.

00:50:16.000 I'd have to read it thoroughly and see what I think.

00:50:18.000 He thinks that you could retrain someone to have a high arch.

00:50:22.000 Oh, you can, absolutely.

00:50:23.000 Really?

00:50:23.000 Yeah, I've done it.

00:50:24.000 Really?

00:50:24.000 What do you do?

00:50:25.000 So for a guy like me?

00:50:26.000 For a guy like you, like I said, like the balancing type exercises we have and the foot strengthening modalities that we use, well, definitely...

00:50:36.000 Man, I challenge you to try this.

00:50:39.000 Okay.

00:50:39.000 If you try like a calf raise, or you can go on like a seated leg press, and don't put any weight on there.

00:50:47.000 Just do a few with your shoes on.

00:50:48.000 Okay, then take your shoes on and try a few without your shoes and really accentuate the movement in the toes to the tip of the toe, not just to the pad of the toe, but to the tip of the toe, and see the difference you feel in your Achilles and your calves.

00:51:00.000 Okay, and I guarantee you it's going to blow you away.

00:51:04.000 Tremendous difference when you just use that little bit, that little extra inch of your toes, and you feel it all through the arch of the foot, and you feel it all the way up through the calf.

00:51:14.000 It's really something else.

00:51:16.000 That's where I always have pain, in the arch of my foot.

00:51:18.000 Yeah.

00:51:19.000 It's always like I got pain there from skiing.

00:51:22.000 I get pain there from sometimes hiking.

00:51:25.000 Yeah.

00:51:25.000 It gives me some pain there.

00:51:26.000 Yeah, that's fixable.

00:51:28.000 Interesting.

00:51:29.000 Okay, we'll talk about me later in that.

00:51:31.000 But a lot of people have issues with that.

00:51:33.000 A lot of people have issues with flat feet.

00:51:35.000 Do you find that fighters ever have issues plotting?

00:51:38.000 Like say if you get a guy and like maybe he's kind of lumbering.

00:51:41.000 We all know fighters that just don't move well on their feet.

00:51:46.000 For example, Ruslan has the flattest feet I've ever seen in an athlete.

00:51:50.000 Really?

00:51:50.000 Actually, maybe top three.

00:51:54.000 But surprisingly, after this training camp, he had a little bit more strength, and I noticed less of a drop in the arches of his foot.

00:52:03.000 And so that says something about what we were doing.

00:52:05.000 And there were points in the fight where you can see him bouncing around on his feet, and he looks pretty quick.

00:52:09.000 I think even like the 10th or 11th round, he was...

00:52:12.000 Popping around on his feet and the announcer said, what is this?

00:52:15.000 He's bouncing around his feet.

00:52:16.000 He looks quick.

00:52:16.000 What's he doing now?

00:52:17.000 Is this some kind of strategy or whatever?

00:52:20.000 So we made incredible gains in the strength of his feet and his calves.

00:52:24.000 Unfortunately, he fights flat-footed.

00:52:26.000 He comes at you head first.

00:52:28.000 That's just his style.

00:52:31.000 Yeah, he was coming on in the later rounds.

00:52:33.000 Matisse was cracking him early in that fight.

00:52:37.000 That was a war.

00:52:38.000 That guy might have the best chin I've ever seen.

00:52:40.000 Could very well be.

00:52:41.000 He did get hurt.

00:52:42.000 He got hurt in one of the rounds and it slowed him down.

00:52:44.000 It's hard to not.

00:52:45.000 Matisse throws bombs.

00:52:47.000 Yeah, he was really pleased with his conditioning, though.

00:52:50.000 He actually came by on the way to the Pacquiao fight.

00:52:53.000 He flew into LAX and he stopped by my gym and he wanted to give me a bonus.

00:52:57.000 He's like, I've never felt like that in a fight.

00:52:59.000 Even though I lost, that's the best I've ever felt.

00:53:02.000 That's awesome.

00:53:05.000 Did you see the urine sample that he gave?

00:53:15.000 Yeah.

00:53:16.000 Whoa.

00:53:16.000 Tasty, huh?

00:53:17.000 Yeah.

00:53:17.000 For folks who don't know, if you look on Provodnikoff's Instagram page, there's a photo of his urine sample that looked like Coca-Cola.

00:53:25.000 We've showed it a bunch of times on this podcast because it's so fucking crazy. 0.89

00:53:29.000 I've heard of that before.

00:53:31.000 Guys who do ultramarathons.

00:53:33.000 My friend Cameron Haynes, he's done an ultramarathon.

00:53:35.000 He said you pee like coke.

00:53:37.000 Yeah, breaking down muscle and dehydration and all that.

00:53:40.000 Kidneys.

00:53:41.000 Kidney problems, you know, who knows. 0.99

00:53:43.000 So that fight was just that fucking brutal. 0.99

00:53:45.000 It was insane. 0.98

00:53:46.000 I'll tell you what, when the first...

00:53:48.000 First of all, I have so much respect for both of those guys.

00:53:51.000 Matisse and Ruslan are both in my top five, top ten fighters.

00:53:56.000 Matisse's punching power is freaking ridiculous. 1.00

00:53:58.000 Ridiculous. 0.99

00:53:59.000 I remember I was in there, and I was like, where am I going to sit? 0.87

00:54:02.000 I was originally going to be on the corner, and then I ended up getting a seat ringside.

00:54:06.000 And I turned my back, and this is our first round, ten seconds in.

00:54:09.000 I'm already hearing the punches behind me. 0.99

00:54:11.000 I'm like, oh, fuck, I've got to run around and get my ass over there as quick as I can, because this might not go another round. 0.99

00:54:17.000 I mean, you know you're in a good fight and you can hear those punches landing. 1.00

00:54:20.000 It's just ridiculous, like the power that they generate. 0.92

00:54:23.000 Matisse's a monster, but so is Provodnikov. 1.00

00:54:25.000 Provodnikov's a monster. 0.99

00:54:26.000 The way he fucking keeps coming and bombing and moving and throwing bombs, like, Jesus, what a fight that was. 0.99

00:54:32.000 Well, yeah, and the cool thing about that was... 0.98

00:54:36.000 I like Ruslan, but the fights prior to that, you know, he had a tendency to fade after three or four rounds.

00:54:43.000 And whatever that was, you know, focus or conditioning, I don't know.

00:54:47.000 But even if it's mental focus, you need to condition that as well.

00:54:50.000 And so this training camp, I really dedicated a lot of time to learning how to push him into the later rounds and getting to bring it more and more as the fight progressed.

00:55:01.000 Now, Freddie Roach trains him as boxing?

00:55:04.000 Yeah.

00:55:05.000 And what was, like, Freddie's assessment of, like, the difference in his performance from training with you, like, what he can get out of him in the gym?

00:55:15.000 His sparring looked great.

00:55:17.000 Everybody was pleased with his sparring, like, this time.

00:55:19.000 They said this is the best he's ever looked in sparring, like, phenomenal.

00:55:22.000 And, uh...

00:55:24.000 Ruzon's kind of like a robot.

00:55:25.000 Whatever he does in sparring, he's pretty much going to do in the fight.

00:55:29.000 And so even in sparring, he would come on a little slow and then pick it up towards the later rounds of sparring.

00:55:34.000 And so I don't think it surprised anybody in the performance.

00:55:37.000 Like Freddie even said in the beginning, it's a 50-50 fight.

00:55:39.000 I don't know who's going to win this.

00:55:41.000 And to be honest, that fight went down exactly how I thought it would.

00:55:45.000 Exactly.

00:55:47.000 In the dressing room, before we walked out, I pulled the ref aside and I asked him, hey, look...

00:55:53.000 What happens if he gets headbutted in the first or second round? 0.99

00:55:57.000 Shit you not. 1.00

00:55:57.000 I asked him that. 1.00

00:55:59.000 Wow.

00:55:59.000 And I said, are you going to stop the fight?

00:56:01.000 Are you going to have him check it?

00:56:02.000 Or are you going to let him keep fighting if there's blood?

00:56:03.000 You know, I just wanted to get some things clear because I kind of had this weird feeling.

00:56:07.000 And sure enough, second round.

00:56:09.000 And I had a feeling Matisse was going to win by decision.

00:56:12.000 Sometimes you just get that weird feeling.

00:56:14.000 You know, there's an aura.

00:56:15.000 And you can put all the work in you want, but you know, like, if it's not your night, it's not your night.

00:56:21.000 And there's just something there.

00:56:23.000 Now, Provodnikov, what kind of diet does that guy follow? 0.98

00:56:26.000 Because I read some crazy shit about, like, until he was like... 0.98

00:56:30.000 Yeah, he'd only eaten raw meat. 0.99

00:56:33.000 No, he still eats raw meat.

00:56:35.000 Really?

00:56:35.000 Yeah.

00:56:36.000 Not when he's here.

00:56:36.000 Here he has a nutritionist here.

00:56:39.000 But where does he eat raw meat?

00:56:41.000 Like when he's in Siberia?

00:56:42.000 Siberia, yeah.

00:56:42.000 What does he eat?

00:56:43.000 They sell it like in his town. 1.00

00:56:44.000 I guess they sell it in restaurants and shit. 0.99

00:56:46.000 Like you can go into a restaurant and just go, hey, I'll have a moose heart with a side of bacon. 1.00

00:56:51.000 Really?

00:56:52.000 Yeah.

00:56:52.000 So they're all used to eating raw meat up there.

00:56:55.000 They're like Eskimos. 0.97

00:56:57.000 You know what I mean?

00:56:57.000 They're really ahead of the times.

00:57:01.000 Well, there's something to be said for those genetics.

00:57:04.000 I'll tell you that.

00:57:05.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:57:05.000 Because those are some fucking stout human beings. 0.99

00:57:09.000 And that diet has got to be, like, incredibly nutrient-dense protein. 0.99

00:57:13.000 Absolutely.

00:57:13.000 As long as you're eating, you know, game animals and not predators, you know, you can pretty much get away with that.

00:57:19.000 If they were eating bear, you obviously couldn't eat it raw, but eating caribou or something like that, raw.

00:57:24.000 You ever eaten it?

00:57:25.000 Fine.

00:57:26.000 I've eaten caribou before.

00:57:27.000 Yeah, it's delicious.

00:57:28.000 You like it?

00:57:28.000 Is it?

00:57:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:57:29.000 I'd be interested to try that.

00:57:31.000 It's very, it's reindeer.

00:57:32.000 You know, when you see reindeers, like Santa's reindeer, those are caribou.

00:57:36.000 Yeah.

00:57:36.000 Elk.

00:57:37.000 Elk's delicious.

00:57:39.000 I've had raw horse in Montreal.

00:57:42.000 I had horse tartare.

00:57:45.000 Yeah, they ground up this raw horse and served it with like egg on it and everything, like raw egg on it.

00:57:51.000 It was amazing.

00:57:52.000 Yeah, there's this place called Joe Beef in Montreal.

00:57:54.000 Is that fresh?

00:57:55.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, it has to be.

00:57:56.000 So how do they do that?

00:57:57.000 Do they kill the whole horse?

00:57:58.000 I mean...

00:57:58.000 I don't know.

00:57:59.000 If it's fresh, you'd think they'd kill the whole horse and someone would spoil, or do they just, like, take off limbs at a time and then, like...

00:58:05.000 That's a good question.

00:58:06.000 I don't know.

00:58:07.000 I mean, obviously...

00:58:07.000 Resuscitate the thing, I don't know.

00:58:08.000 When you buy, most beef that you buy from the store is fresh.

00:58:12.000 I mean, they're not freezing your steaks, for the most part.

00:58:15.000 Some fish is frozen, but almost all beef you're buying has been killed fairly recently.

00:58:21.000 Some of it's dry-aged, but this horse was, you know, I guess actually they killed the horse in America, but you can't sell it in America in stores, but you can kill them in America, and then they export them to Canada.

00:58:34.000 It's very tricky, you know, because people have very strong attachments towards them as animals, as pets.

00:58:41.000 Yeah.

00:58:42.000 But, uh, delicious.

00:58:44.000 Although weird.

00:58:45.000 You know, I don't have a horse.

00:58:46.000 If I had a horse, you know, I'm not about to eat a dog.

00:58:49.000 Right.

00:58:49.000 But if I had a horse, it might trip me out.

00:58:51.000 Yeah.

00:58:52.000 What's with the cats?

00:58:53.000 I think I saw a picture of your cats or something.

00:58:55.000 You got cats?

00:58:56.000 Yeah, cats.

00:58:57.000 Is that bad?

00:58:58.000 I have little girls.

00:59:00.000 I've always had cats.

00:59:01.000 I have a 19-year-old cat.

00:59:02.000 Do you really?

00:59:02.000 Yeah, I've had her since she was a baby.

00:59:04.000 Yeah.

00:59:05.000 Is that bad?

00:59:05.000 No.

00:59:06.000 Something wrong with me?

00:59:06.000 It's just different.

00:59:08.000 What are you trying to say?

00:59:09.000 You seem like a macho guy.

00:59:10.000 I don't know, I'm talking cats.

00:59:12.000 I'm balanced, man.

00:59:13.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, all right.

00:59:13.000 Come on, dude.

00:59:14.000 Got to get in touch with the feminine side. 0.99

00:59:15.000 Yeah, I'm going to touch with my feminine side. 0.98

00:59:16.000 I like little dogs, too.

00:59:17.000 Is that okay?

00:59:18.000 Yeah, it's great.

00:59:19.000 What if I have a little dog in a purse and I carry it around?

00:59:21.000 I don't know about that, man.

00:59:23.000 I think you're pushing it there.

00:59:24.000 Chuck Liddell does.

00:59:25.000 Does he?

00:59:26.000 Chuck Liddell is a little tiny chihuahua you used to take with him everywhere.

00:59:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:59:29.000 Nobody's done a shit. 0.91

00:59:31.000 Exactly. 0.98

00:59:32.000 Iceman.

00:59:35.000 Yeah, I like cats, man.

00:59:36.000 My daughters love cats.

00:59:37.000 Yeah.

00:59:38.000 They're cute.

00:59:39.000 Oh, you got daughters? 0.99

00:59:40.000 Oh, that's right.

00:59:40.000 Yeah.

00:59:41.000 You know, I saw a show of yours.

00:59:43.000 Which one?

00:59:43.000 A comedy club in Hermosa a few years ago.

00:59:46.000 Oh, the Comedy Magic Club? 0.99

00:59:47.000 Fucking phenomenal, dude. 0.98

00:59:48.000 Oh, thanks, man. 0.98

00:59:49.000 Thank you.

00:59:49.000 I never saw it before.

00:59:50.000 I remembered you from the...

00:59:52.000 What was it?

00:59:53.000 The sitcom?

00:59:54.000 Newsradio?

00:59:55.000 Newsradio.

00:59:55.000 I thought you were pretty funny there.

00:59:56.000 And then I saw you at the thing.

00:59:58.000 My buddy got us tickets, and I was just, like, blown away.

01:00:00.000 Oh, thanks, man.

01:00:01.000 But the thing about the daughter sticking her hand... 1.00

01:00:04.000 That's a true story. 0.99

01:00:05.000 It fucking resonates in my mind. 0.99

01:00:07.000 She really did, man. 0.99

01:00:07.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:00:08.000 She's like, I don't want to go to bed.

01:00:10.000 She mad-dogged me. 0.93

01:00:12.000 That was a total true story.

01:00:13.000 I had to figure out how to react.

01:00:16.000 You don't want to freak out about this, because then she'll know that she can get a rise out of you. 0.99

01:00:21.000 The other day, I made a mistake.

01:00:22.000 I swore in front of my kid.

01:00:24.000 It's going to be two in a few weeks, and I said that.

01:00:27.000 I was frustrated.

01:00:28.000 I was tired.

01:00:28.000 I want to get in the shower, and I'm holding him in one arm, and I hit the The dimmer on the light switch, it doesn't work properly, so you're always messing with it to get it to work.

01:00:35.000 I said, fucking lights. 0.99

01:00:37.000 I just said it under my breath, dude. 1.00

01:00:40.000 I look at my son, and I'm trying to get this thing to work, and my son goes, fucking lights. 0.99

01:00:45.000 That's great. 0.99

01:00:46.000 So then, now everything.

01:00:48.000 No, it's still going on.

01:00:49.000 This was like a month and a half ago.

01:00:50.000 It's still going on. 1.00

01:00:52.000 Fucking Uncle Rudy. 1.00

01:00:53.000 Fucking garbage cart. 1.00

01:00:55.000 You know, as soon as you give it, like, a response, then it's like, oh, their eyes light up. 1.00

01:01:00.000 Like, you don't have to say anything.

01:01:01.000 The minute your eyes just kind of latch on, it's like, oh, dude, did you just say that?

01:01:05.000 So, two days ago in Mommy and Me class, kids are singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. 0.99

01:01:11.000 I shit you not. 1.00

01:01:12.000 Fucking lights! 1.00

01:01:13.000 Fucking lights! 1.00

01:01:14.000 Dude, I feel like such a bad dad. 1.00

01:01:17.000 No.

01:01:18.000 Nonsense. 1.00

01:01:18.000 Don't let those people fuck with your head. 1.00

01:01:20.000 Yeah, I'm not. 1.00

01:01:21.000 Who cares?

01:01:21.000 You're a grown adult.

01:01:22.000 You're a man.

01:01:23.000 I said fork and knife.

01:01:24.000 He said fork and knife.

01:01:26.000 Oh, there you go.

01:01:26.000 But don't even lie about it.

01:01:28.000 Is there anything wrong with saying those words today, right now?

01:01:31.000 You and I together.

01:01:32.000 Two grown adults.

01:01:33.000 Nothing wrong.

01:01:33.000 Absolutely not.

01:01:34.000 So, stop.

01:01:36.000 Everybody stop.

01:01:36.000 My wife always says that.

01:01:38.000 My wife gets mad if I swear on the kids. 1.00

01:01:39.000 You know, she's like, stop at the language. 1.00

01:01:41.000 I'm like, listen, bitch. 1.00

01:01:42.000 How the fuck? 1.00

01:01:42.000 What the fuck do you think I make a living? 1.00

01:01:43.000 I make a living with this language. 1.00

01:01:45.000 This is called English. 1.00

01:01:46.000 It's called American English, and occasionally we say fuck. 1.00

01:01:49.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:01:49.000 Jesus, don't say it at school, kids. 1.00

01:01:51.000 All right?

01:01:52.000 My three-year-old, when she was three, we were skiing.

01:01:55.000 I took them skiing from the time they were really little.

01:01:57.000 My kids have been skiing since they were two.

01:01:59.000 Uh-huh. 0.99

01:02:01.000 When she was three, we're packing all the stuff up, we're getting ready to leave, you know, we're leaving the trip, and we're in the hotel, and she's got her little bag zipped up, and my wife goes, we forgot to put the helmet in the bag, and the little kid, she's three, she goes, shit. 0.98

01:02:19.000 And my wife looks at me, and her eyes light up, and I had to fucking turn my face and run out of the room, because I couldn't stop laughing. 0.98

01:02:28.000 Yeah, you gotta laugh.

01:02:28.000 It was the funniest, but I didn't want to, like, make...

01:02:31.000 She finds something that's funny.

01:02:33.000 Like, she loves being funny, because I'm a big laugher. 1.00

01:02:36.000 So when she says funny shit, I just fucking fall over laughing. 0.99

01:02:40.000 So I had to be real careful about that one when she was three. 0.99

01:02:43.000 But it was just something funny about it.

01:02:44.000 She wasn't even doing it to get attention or anything. 0.84

01:02:46.000 She was just looking at her suitcase.

01:02:48.000 My wife has the helmet, and she realized the helmet's not in the suitcase. 1.00

01:02:51.000 She goes, Shit. 1.00

01:02:54.000 A little tiny person saying shit is fucking hilarious. 1.00

01:02:58.000 Like an adult. 1.00

01:02:58.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

01:03:00.000 Like if we were, it was just you and I, and you forgot your helmet, you'd be like, ah shit. 1.00

01:03:04.000 And that would be normal. 1.00

01:03:05.000 And that was normal to her.

01:03:07.000 I just, I don't buy this.

01:03:09.000 There's something wrong with kids swearing. 1.00

01:03:11.000 It's fucking stupid. 1.00

01:03:12.000 It's dumb. 1.00

01:03:13.000 Oh, there's a certain age when it's okay? 0.99

01:03:15.000 What's that age?

01:03:16.000 Is it 19? 1.00

01:03:16.000 Is it when they start fucking? 1.00

01:03:18.000 Is it when they drink? 0.99

01:03:19.000 Like, when is it okay to swear? 1.00

01:03:21.000 Like, we're babies with our fucking language. 1.00

01:03:23.000 And it's so dumb because it's all just by television. 1.00

01:03:26.000 It's all, like, the censorship that we've imposed upon ourselves with television is the same censorship that we bring into the household and you expect from kids at school. 0.99

01:03:35.000 Like, I don't give a fuck about language. 0.84

01:03:37.000 I appreciate how people treat each other. 0.78

01:03:39.000 How do you talk to me?

01:03:41.000 Are you nice?

01:03:42.000 Are you friendly? 0.99

01:03:43.000 If you're friendly and you say, fuck, I feel good about talking to you. 0.99

01:03:46.000 If you're a rude person and you don't use bad language or you're uncomfortable or you're not kind or considerate, then I feel gross about talking to you. 1.00

01:03:56.000 But if you're a normal person and you say, fuck, what kind of a weirdo cares about that? 1.00

01:04:02.000 But we've, like, imprinted it into our brains, and the same retarded shit, we pass it down from parent to child and parent to child. 1.00

01:04:09.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:04:09.000 And then when does that stop? 1.00

01:04:10.000 When do we stop giving so much power to these stupid fucking words? 1.00

01:04:15.000 It's dumb. 1.00

01:04:16.000 As a parent, it drives me fucking crazy. 1.00

01:04:19.000 It drives me crazy. 0.89

01:04:20.000 Because I know that it's not, like, when people are alone, when they're comfortable, when they're together, when they're out drinking, when they're, you know, at a bar or restaurant, they swear.

01:04:29.000 And it's fun.

01:04:30.000 It's freeing.

01:04:31.000 It's liberating. 1.00

01:04:32.000 But you're in an office, everybody's dressed like a fucking penguin, some weird, stupid outfits. 1.00

01:04:37.000 You know, it's dumb. 1.00

01:04:39.000 It doesn't make any sense. 0.99

01:04:40.000 It's a weird habit that we're stuck in that people think is like, oh, you got a lot of class with your language. 1.00

01:04:47.000 Fuck you. 1.00

01:04:48.000 Just shut up. 1.00

01:04:49.000 This is stupid. 1.00

01:04:51.000 This is a dumb way to express yourself. 1.00

01:04:53.000 Doesn't make any sense to me. 0.99

01:04:55.000 Yeah.

01:04:55.000 I don't really think that much about it.

01:04:57.000 Yeah.

01:04:58.000 Drives me nuts.

01:04:59.000 Yeah, it drives me nuts man because I've had like people come on my podcast and Like the podcast like someone will say it was a great podcast except for Rogan's language in my language Like he asked great questions if you get past the language.

01:05:15.000 It was a great conversation.

01:05:15.000 What if you say it in like a foreign language?

01:05:18.000 Yeah, right? 1.00

01:05:19.000 The word French, French word for fuck. 1.00

01:05:21.000 It's just silliness. 1.00

01:05:23.000 It's infantile. 0.80

01:05:25.000 It's self-imposed infantile behavior.

01:05:27.000 And when you're the adult, when you're a grown person, you're a fully grown adult, you pay your own bills, you feed yourself, the whole deal.

01:05:35.000 You decide when you go to bed. 0.93

01:05:37.000 Like, the idea that you are imposing this stupid language restriction, the only language I care about is language that expresses, like... 0.98

01:05:44.000 Human interaction. 0.99

01:05:45.000 Yeah.

01:05:46.000 I care about derogatory language, I care about offensive, evil language, racist language, that kind of stuff bugs me. 1.00

01:05:53.000 But just saying, fuck, like, the type of people that do that... 1.00

01:05:57.000 The good thing about that is, if you find someone who cares about that, you know you're around an idiot. 1.00

01:06:02.000 Just avoid that dummy. 1.00

01:06:03.000 Yeah. 0.94

01:06:04.000 I got a little excited.

01:06:06.000 Got a little carried away with that thought.

01:06:08.000 We got off track.

01:06:09.000 This podcast is...

01:06:10.000 We should change the name of it to Off Track.

01:06:13.000 Off Track.

01:06:13.000 What are you showing?

01:06:14.000 Have you ever seen this store on Sunset?

01:06:16.000 Pinches Tacos? 0.89

01:06:17.000 Yeah.

01:06:17.000 Do you know what that means?

01:06:18.000 No. 1.00

01:06:18.000 Fucking Tacos. 1.00

01:06:19.000 Really? 1.00

01:06:20.000 Yeah.

01:06:20.000 Good.

01:06:21.000 It's on Sunset Boulevard.

01:06:22.000 I love it.

01:06:22.000 Good.

01:06:23.000 Good.

01:06:24.000 I hope somebody protests.

01:06:25.000 I hope some social justice warriors have it closed down because it's racist or something. 0.67

01:06:29.000 I hope white people own it. 0.98

01:06:31.000 I don't know. 0.86

01:06:33.000 Fungu.

01:06:34.000 Yeah, I don't know, man.

01:06:35.000 I just think we're very childish when it comes to language.

01:06:39.000 That's not the point of this podcast.

01:06:41.000 The point of this podcast is I have just so many questions for you.

01:06:44.000 I have to get back to this because it's really fascinating.

01:06:46.000 What do you think when you watch those countdown shows and you see guys doing the battle ropes and there's a bunch of very specific things that you see.

01:06:56.000 You see guys pushing sleds.

01:06:58.000 That's a big one.

01:06:59.000 The weight sled, right? 1.00

01:07:00.000 Pushing that fucking sled. 0.99

01:07:02.000 You see like all these different ways of training. 1.00

01:07:08.000 What is like the biggest mistakes that you see?

01:07:11.000 Or what you feel are biggest mistakes?

01:07:14.000 Obviously, the exercise modalities.

01:07:16.000 I don't know how pushing a sled is even relative to MMA. I mean, if we're talking about MMA here.

01:07:22.000 Pushing guys up against a cage.

01:07:24.000 Are you pushing them or are you holding them?

01:07:27.000 Well, if you're trying to push a guy up against a cage.

01:07:29.000 Say if you get in a collar tie and you want to push a guy up against a cage, you want to work your Muay Thai.

01:07:33.000 You want to work knees to the body.

01:07:36.000 I think it would be more about leverage of the leg, the placement of the leg and the leverage and the power of the foot, which we go back to the strength of the feet.

01:07:44.000 The strength of the foot cannot be understated.

01:07:47.000 They've done studies like on Olympic weightlifters.

01:07:51.000 That show that the foot actually produces the greatest amount of force in the Olympic weight lifts.

01:07:58.000 Really?

01:07:58.000 Yeah.

01:07:59.000 It's the actual foot.

01:08:00.000 If you look at the leverage of the joint there, it's just such a short lever.

01:08:03.000 So the pushing off the ground is like for cleans. 1.00

01:08:06.000 Exactly.

01:08:07.000 That produces more force than the quadricep, even the hip.

01:08:13.000 That's amazing.

01:08:13.000 Yeah.

01:08:14.000 So are you opposed to cleans and presses and things along those lines?

01:08:18.000 I don't have my guys do them.

01:08:21.000 I'm not going to say they're terrible.

01:08:23.000 I think if you start going too heavy, then yeah, you're overloading your spine and you're doing a disservice to the rest of your body.

01:08:30.000 What's too heavy?

01:08:31.000 I think something that you can't do quickly and incorporate the stretch shortening cycle.

01:08:37.000 Like I said, plyometrics, in my opinion, are the king for strengthening the body.

01:08:42.000 So box jumps, those type of exercises where you're doing the descending bench press and catching it and Anything where the muscle is being put on stretch and then firing back at a faster rate.

01:08:55.000 So you can even do that manually, like to exercise for the hips.

01:08:58.000 You can do that with a hand, throwing the leg down and work it in different angles.

01:09:02.000 So imagine strengthening every muscle in your body plyometrically.

01:09:06.000 Then you've got like a fast-twitch animal that's highly trained.

01:09:09.000 Can you take a guy who's slow and you can make him fast?

01:09:14.000 Absolutely.

01:09:15.000 Through the stretch-shortening cycle again, which is the neural impulses that go through one muscle.

01:09:22.000 The stretch-shortening cycle actually, let me give you an example of this.

01:09:25.000 So imagine you go to the doctor and you're sitting in the doctor's chair and he comes up and he hits you in the knee.

01:09:31.000 He does the patellar test, the kick test.

01:09:33.000 That's a stretch-shortening cycle.

01:09:34.000 And what he's doing, he's testing for any kind of abnormalities that might be in your spine or might show up in your nervous system.

01:09:42.000 It could be some other kind of disease or whatever.

01:09:44.000 But what it's doing is it's sending a neural impulse through the tendon, all the way up through the muscle into the spine, and then it inhibits the hamstring.

01:09:53.000 So it switches the hamstring off.

01:09:56.000 And that's why your leg jerks without you even having to try to do anything right there.

01:10:00.000 Really?

01:10:00.000 You know, you just sit there.

01:10:01.000 You're not making a kick.

01:10:02.000 So that's what's going on?

01:10:04.000 Exactly.

01:10:05.000 So if you hit right on the patellar tendon, your leg kicks...

01:10:11.000 It's actually switching off your hamstrings simultaneously at the same time it's activating the quadricep.

01:10:18.000 So you get a greater contraction out of the quadricep without even trying.

01:10:22.000 That's where the efficiency that you've been talking about comes in.

01:10:25.000 So by training the stretch-shortening cycle, you can duplicate that throughout the entire body as long as you're training every muscle like that.

01:10:34.000 So do you have like a standard MMA fighter protocol that you follow?

01:10:39.000 Or does it vary depending upon what the athlete brings to you in the first place?

01:10:43.000 Do you try to get them to a place and then work from there?

01:10:48.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:10:49.000 Like I said, we start with muscle testing to determine weaknesses like the feet and the hips.

01:10:53.000 How do you do these muscle tests?

01:10:55.000 Manual testing.

01:10:56.000 For example, I'll hold your toes and I'll have you try to push me back and I'll feel like it's like a manual muscle test, like something a chiropractor might do or a physical therapist looking for weaknesses.

01:11:07.000 And then the hips, you can test the abduction and adduction. 0.61

01:11:10.000 You can turn the person over and you can test the rotation of their hip here.

01:11:13.000 And all these things play into the mechanics of sporting movements.

01:11:18.000 So the rotational muscles of the hip If you've got, let's say, you're right-handed and you've got weak rotational muscles in the left, in your left leg, that's going to affect your left hook.

01:11:28.000 Right?

01:11:29.000 Same with the right hand, straight right hand.

01:11:31.000 If you've got a weak gluten ham contraction, you're going to have a weakness in your straight right hand.

01:11:37.000 If you're punching from the hip.

01:11:39.000 I mean, assuming you're punching with good mechanics.

01:11:40.000 Right.

01:11:41.000 So all these factors play into where we want to get them.

01:11:46.000 So first you would remediate the weakest link first.

01:11:49.000 So 99 times out of 100, it's the feet and the hips for the guys.

01:11:53.000 And then usually the lower back and the shoulders.

01:11:56.000 You can watch the video.

01:11:58.000 I remember Gary, I think, is explaining it when he trained BJ Penn.

01:12:02.000 First, we fixed his feet and then his hips.

01:12:05.000 It's the same strategy for remediating weakness.

01:12:08.000 You want to strengthen all these weak links first to get the kinetic chain working all the way through.

01:12:15.000 So if you get a guy and say the guy has a lower back issues, this is really common with BJJ players.

01:12:20.000 Absolutely.

01:12:20.000 Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guys that work the guard, especially a lot of them have lower, like Eddie Bravo.

01:12:24.000 Right.

01:12:24.000 He has some serious lower back problems.

01:12:27.000 What would you do to a guy like that?

01:12:29.000 First of all, I'd probably want to turn him over and feel what his spine feels like and feel for what the vertebrae is lined up like and his hips.

01:12:39.000 And then I did a visual assessment of his lower back.

01:12:42.000 He's an extremely flexible guy, right?

01:12:44.000 In some ways.

01:12:45.000 Tight hamstrings, though.

01:12:46.000 Tight hamstrings. 1.00

01:12:47.000 Yeah, he's a guy that's all fucked up. 0.99

01:12:49.000 I could probably fix him up, no problem. 0.99

01:12:50.000 You think so?

01:12:51.000 Absolutely.

01:12:52.000 Really?

01:12:52.000 Guaranteed.

01:12:52.000 Eddie Bravo.

01:12:53.000 Yeah, where you at?

01:12:54.000 Call Nick.

01:12:54.000 Let's go, Eddie.

01:12:56.000 I think I trained with him a long time ago, man.

01:12:58.000 He used to wear like the headgear and like a wetsuit thing on his head.

01:13:01.000 Yeah, he did.

01:13:02.000 It must be John Jocks.

01:13:03.000 This was probably like 15 years ago.

01:13:05.000 When he had really long hair.

01:13:07.000 He used to tuck his hair in a wetsuit.

01:13:08.000 Yeah, he's a pretty cool guy.

01:13:11.000 Yeah, he's awesome.

01:13:12.000 He's a character.

01:13:13.000 But his flexibility is very unusual.

01:13:16.000 His leg dexterity is very unusual in his hips, his ability to, you know, like what he calls jailbreak, like say if you have him in side control.

01:13:24.000 He can pick his foot up without even grabbing it with his hand, bring it across like that, get a deep butterfly hook, and then turn and face you.

01:13:31.000 Yeah.

01:13:31.000 It's amazing.

01:13:32.000 Yeah.

01:13:33.000 It's an amazing dexterity that he has.

01:13:35.000 No, I guarantee I can fix it.

01:13:37.000 I've fixed NFL players' backs, and those guys have the worst backs. 0.99

01:13:41.000 So say you get a guy who's got some bulging discs, a bunch of shit going on. 0.98

01:13:45.000 Bulging discs? 0.99

01:13:46.000 That's...

01:13:46.000 Kind of sketchy.

01:13:47.000 I don't want to be sued for anything, you know what I mean?

01:13:50.000 But there are some traction stretches you can do, like some manual therapy stuff that I've learned from a very well-respected neurologist and physiologist, crazy Russian guy, scientist. 0.87

01:14:04.000 So we've implemented a lot of that stuff for the health of the spine.

01:14:09.000 Yeah, there's some stuff you can do to relieve the pressure there.

01:14:13.000 Because back and neck, those are really common with grapplers.

01:14:16.000 I know so many wrestlers who have fused discs.

01:14:19.000 Like Tito Ortiz, I think he's got three fused.

01:14:22.000 He's got one in his neck fused and I think he's got two in his back.

01:14:25.000 One in his lumbar and maybe one thoracic or something like that.

01:14:29.000 Yeah, I had to have the steroid injections in my neck.

01:14:31.000 Did you?

01:14:32.000 Yeah, I herniated five discs.

01:14:34.000 Five?

01:14:34.000 Yeah.

01:14:35.000 Jesus.

01:14:35.000 I'm getting pretty aggro back then.

01:14:37.000 And so I had the...

01:14:39.000 Cortisone?

01:14:40.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:14:41.000 They put you to sleep for that?

01:14:42.000 Is that the cortisone?

01:14:43.000 Yeah.

01:14:43.000 I don't know.

01:14:44.000 Yeah, they put me under for it, man.

01:14:45.000 And it was...

01:14:47.000 I couldn't sleep for three weeks before I had the shots.

01:14:50.000 I mean, I was up in so much pain.

01:14:52.000 My arm atrophied.

01:14:53.000 It looked like a wet noodle.

01:14:55.000 Yeah.

01:14:55.000 Oh, so you had a pretty bad...

01:14:57.000 Yeah, a pretty good one.

01:14:57.000 What happened to your neck?

01:14:58.000 I got thrown into a wall in jujitsu, and I just crunched.

01:15:03.000 But I think it was more like years and years of building up, you know?

01:15:07.000 And then they found there's like a bone spur in there that like irritates the nerve and...

01:15:11.000 So do they have to go in there and take the bone spur out?

01:15:13.000 Probably will one day, but not yet.

01:15:16.000 I have so many friends that have atrophy issues with the neck where their arm shrinks.

01:15:23.000 Yeah.

01:15:23.000 Boss Rootin, he had his neck fused.

01:15:26.000 He actually had some significant neck problems for years, and then he was, I think it was on Sons of Anarchy, one of those shows, where he was doing a stunt, and they threw him on his head.

01:15:37.000 Oh, God.

01:15:39.000 Yeah, and his arm just went funk and then it's shrunk up.

01:15:43.000 We calls it baby arm.

01:15:44.000 He's got one on it's still to this day Yeah, he had several operations.

01:15:49.000 He has disk fused in his neck.

01:15:50.000 Yeah, he had the the nerve opening They they go in there and they sort of carve it out clear clear the opening to relieve the pressure on the nerve and even that like he probably did it all too late in his arm had been atrophied for so many years and That it just,

01:16:09.000 it's a long process to rebuild the nerves.

01:16:12.000 Man, I know about that.

01:16:13.000 Is that for you?

01:16:14.000 Yeah, well, I was in a car accident, too, where I was actually rear-ended.

01:16:18.000 The guy was going about 100 miles an hour.

01:16:20.000 Jesus.

01:16:20.000 Yeah, so shattered my pelvis, broke my hip.

01:16:24.000 I've got a plate in there now, like a steel plate.

01:16:26.000 Whoa.

01:16:26.000 Yeah, and so I was in a wheelchair for like six months.

01:16:29.000 But the nerve, like...

01:16:31.000 But apart from all the muscular, you know, rebuilding the muscles and all that, the nerve pain from the recovery was the worst.

01:16:39.000 I mean, I still have, like right now I can feel it on my foot.

01:16:41.000 This is like 10 or 12 years ago.

01:16:43.000 Wow.

01:16:43.000 And I just felt like animals were eating my toes off, man.

01:16:46.000 I remember waking up one night like screaming in pain, like, fuck, dude, my foot is, something's eating my foot. 0.97

01:16:51.000 And I look down there and the toes are kind of moving on their own. 0.97

01:16:55.000 And that was the nerve waking back up.

01:16:57.000 Wow.

01:16:57.000 And it was excruciating.

01:16:59.000 I mean, like I said, even to this day, I still get some issues in my toes with that.

01:17:04.000 That's why a lot of guys that have back pains, and women as well, obviously, they get really hooked on pain pills.

01:17:11.000 It's like it gets to a point.

01:17:12.000 I got hooked on them, man.

01:17:13.000 I'm not gonna lie.

01:17:14.000 Did you? 1.00

01:17:14.000 To the point where I would take my pain pills, and then I would take a laxative, because the shit makes you constipated. 1.00

01:17:20.000 So, like, I was taking a lot of those things, like, on a daily basis. 0.99

01:17:24.000 You're doing that for four or five months, man.

01:17:25.000 You're gonna get hooked.

01:17:28.000 How'd you get off?

01:17:30.000 Uh, my will.

01:17:31.000 I think that was it.

01:17:32.000 Yeah, I think.

01:17:33.000 I'm weird like that.

01:17:34.000 Like, I don't get addicted to things, but...

01:17:36.000 When I go too deep, if I feel like something bad is going to happen to me emotionally, I can snap out of it.

01:17:43.000 Self-preservation.

01:17:45.000 When I used to think about taking them, I'd get that taste under my tongue like candy.

01:17:50.000 You know what I mean?

01:17:50.000 Like that.

01:17:51.000 Yeah, I mean, it was...

01:17:52.000 Brennan Schaub said the same thing.

01:17:55.000 Schaub didn't even realize he was hooked on him. 0.96

01:17:57.000 He was taking him every day for like three or four months and then his friends apparently intervened and said, hey dude, you're fucking whacked out all day. 0.96

01:18:06.000 You gotta get off these pills. 0.67

01:18:07.000 Where are the pills?

01:18:08.000 They went to his house, cleaned out his bathroom cabinet and said, enough.

01:18:12.000 Dude, we just did that with my buddy like two weeks ago.

01:18:15.000 Yeah.

01:18:16.000 He had a dirt bike accident. 1.00

01:18:17.000 His fucking bone... 1.00

01:18:19.000 Okay, can I tell you a quick story? 1.00

01:18:21.000 Please.

01:18:21.000 Okay, you know what those razor things are?

01:18:23.000 Have you ever seen a razor?

01:18:25.000 Those little scooter things? 1.00

01:18:26.000 Yeah, with a cage around them.

01:18:27.000 I mean, they're built to crash.

01:18:28.000 Oh, no. 1.00

01:18:29.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

01:18:30.000 No, I think I'm looking at a different thing. 1.00

01:18:31.000 It's kind of like an ATV, but a little bigger, and two guys, like a dune buggy, like a miniature dune buggy with a cage around it, and guys go up hills, like you can see all these fucking guys in the south, love them. 0.98

01:18:41.000 And yeah, so you know where I'm going with this song, it's fucking gnarly. 0.93

01:18:44.000 So this guy, a couple of my buddies buy a brand new one, they're like, come on out, it's going to be a great weekend, man, let's go fucking riding this weekend, whatever. 0.96

01:18:52.000 Long story short, these guys ended up in the hospital. 0.67

01:18:55.000 They flipped the thing, and one guy busted his scalp open.

01:18:58.000 He's got a hole like the size of a golf ball.

01:19:00.000 Broke his arm.

01:19:00.000 My other buddy broke his arm in like four places.

01:19:03.000 Just had surgery.

01:19:04.000 So our third friend who went with him, he called me.

01:19:07.000 He's like, man, these guys have been in an accident. 0.99

01:19:09.000 The next day, someone sends me a text of him laying down with a bone popping out of his fucking arm. 0.99

01:19:14.000 Like, where'd you go? 0.99

01:19:15.000 Indian burial ground, dude? 1.00

01:19:16.000 What the fuck is this shit? 1.00

01:19:17.000 Like, you know what I mean? 1.00

01:19:19.000 Indian burial ground.

01:19:20.000 Right?

01:19:20.000 Like, all these guys that got maimed.

01:19:22.000 Yeah, it's a great weekend, guys.

01:19:23.000 Thanks.

01:19:24.000 But one of them got really hooked on the pain meds.

01:19:27.000 And he went from being a super active guy to just staying home all day, being hooked on pain meds.

01:19:32.000 And we were, like, really worried about him.

01:19:34.000 Like, he was calling us, like, crying, like, dude, I'm gonna do something bad. 1.00

01:19:36.000 I'm gonna fuck it. 1.00

01:19:37.000 Oh, man. 1.00

01:19:39.000 We got this thing called Bro Chat on Facebook.

01:19:41.000 A group of our old buddies got together and we started a group chat probably like two months ago.

01:19:46.000 Every one of us has practically been kicked off Facebook for it for one reason or another.

01:19:50.000 Sending pictures. 0.99

01:19:51.000 You can imagine the shit we're sending there. 0.99

01:19:53.000 But man, we all got together on Bro Chat and we saved his life, dude. 1.00

01:19:56.000 Wow.

01:19:57.000 Bro Chat saves.

01:19:59.000 It does, dude.

01:20:00.000 It saves and it pisses off wives because I swear to God it.

01:20:04.000 Every one of us is on there till like 1130 at night just laughing our ass off while the girls are putting the babies to sleep. 1.00

01:20:11.000 You get off the fucking phone, man. 1.00

01:20:12.000 You got a girlfriend or something. 1.00

01:20:15.000 One of them said, hey, honey, I'll give you a blowjob if you get off the phone. 1.00

01:20:19.000 Wow. 1.00

01:20:20.000 Hilarious. 0.99

01:20:21.000 Bros before blowjobs. 1.00

01:20:23.000 I guess so. 0.99

01:20:24.000 Not me.

01:20:25.000 I mean, I'm the first one off.

01:20:27.000 No.

01:20:29.000 I just come in there to save you, man.

01:20:31.000 That's it.

01:20:32.000 I've had several friends that have had, like, serious pill issues.

01:20:36.000 It's weird how prevalent they are and how easy it is to get them.

01:20:40.000 Yeah.

01:20:40.000 You know, I had my nose fixed.

01:20:42.000 I had deviated septums. 0.67

01:20:44.000 They cleared it all out, cut the turbinates out, stretched open the openings, like, put splints in there and shit, and actually it kind of widened the physical look of my nose. 0.98

01:20:53.000 It kind of changed a little bit because it was, like, a little more sucked in. 0.79

01:20:56.000 I had, like, nasal breathing. 0.92

01:20:58.000 Anyway, point is, it wasn't fucking painful. 0.68

01:21:00.000 Really? 0.61

01:21:01.000 I mean, when it was over, it was over.

01:21:03.000 See, I need that.

01:21:04.000 It's great.

01:21:05.000 I have a deviated set.

01:21:06.000 This is one of the best things I've ever done.

01:21:08.000 I didn't do it until I was like, I think I was 39 or something like that.

01:21:11.000 But once I did, it was like, I get this break.

01:21:15.000 Raphael just had that done.

01:21:16.000 Did he?

01:21:17.000 Yeah.

01:21:17.000 He couldn't.

01:21:19.000 I don't know if it, you know, I think it'd been going on for a long time.

01:21:22.000 Like, he had it so bad he couldn't even breathe out of one of his house.

01:21:24.000 Junior Dos Santos did as well.

01:21:25.000 Huh, interesting.

01:21:26.000 Well, it's just fighting, you know.

01:21:27.000 Yeah.

01:21:28.000 I had my nose broken for the first time when I was five.

01:21:31.000 I fell down a flight of stairs, and it was always kind of crooked, like, the bones kind of weird in it, and it was inside. 0.87

01:21:37.000 It was always fucked up, but then years of just getting smashed in the face. 0.98

01:21:40.000 Uh-huh. 0.99

01:21:40.000 It just gets awful. 0.99

01:21:42.000 To the point, like, you remember Vanderlei, what Vanderlei's nose used to look like?

01:21:45.000 Yeah.

01:21:45.000 Flat to his face.

01:21:46.000 Yeah.

01:21:47.000 Just smushed down.

01:21:48.000 No cartilage at all.

01:21:50.000 Everything just mushed.

01:21:51.000 And every time we talk, you don't hear anything come out of the nose.

01:21:55.000 I tell you, good fight.

01:21:57.000 Good fight.

01:21:58.000 Right.

01:21:59.000 He had his fix and he went deep the other way.

01:22:03.000 He got like an extra big nose so he could breathe better.

01:22:06.000 Like they constructed a nose out of his rib.

01:22:08.000 Looks great.

01:22:09.000 Yeah.

01:22:11.000 How dare you?

01:22:12.000 I see you're being sarcastic.

01:22:14.000 Well, I mean for practical purposes you want to be a fighter.

01:22:17.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:22:18.000 Smarter what he did.

01:22:18.000 Shows a lack of vanity.

01:22:20.000 It does. 0.99

01:22:20.000 He didn't try to look fucking pretty at all. 0.99

01:22:22.000 He cut out all his scar tissue in his eyebrows, you know, because he was getting that. 0.96

01:22:27.000 There's another thing that fighters get is that sort of relaxed eye thing.

01:22:30.000 It impedes vision.

01:22:31.000 Absolutely.

01:22:32.000 Some guys have it so bad that you can see their lids.

01:22:36.000 Yeah.

01:22:36.000 Because I guess it's from punishment, from getting hit.

01:22:39.000 Repetitive scar tissue.

01:22:41.000 Yeah, the repetitive scar tissue and also like the relaxation of the muscle.

01:22:45.000 Deadening of the nerves probably, yeah.

01:22:47.000 So it starts to fall over the eye and it actually gets in the way. 0.98

01:22:50.000 That's Vandelay, but that's Vandelay before he got fucked up. 0.72

01:22:54.000 That's Vandelay in probably like 2003. That's the early days of Vanderlei. 0.93

01:23:00.000 That's Vanderlei when he was the pride champion.

01:23:02.000 Labeled nose number one.

01:23:04.000 Yeah.

01:23:05.000 Well, you gotta see Vanderlei, and that's what he looks like now.

01:23:09.000 I mean, his eyes are different, but that's not what he looked like right after the surgery.

01:23:14.000 That's his face, which kind of relaxed.

01:23:16.000 Yeah, I remember.

01:23:16.000 It was kind of like Catwoman after the surgery, right?

01:23:18.000 Dude!

01:23:19.000 He came onto the scales at the UFC, and he was cornering somebody.

01:23:25.000 And he stepped onto the cage.

01:23:27.000 Like that's him, you see where the pink tape on his gloves?

01:23:30.000 That's him in his best. 0.99

01:23:32.000 That's before his nose was fucked up. 0.94

01:23:34.000 That's when, that's probably him in 2001 or something like that. 0.97

01:23:38.000 I mean, that was Vanderlei in his prime.

01:23:41.000 I want to say that looks like he was right before Rampage Jackson or something like that.

01:23:45.000 2001, 2002, his nose was fine.

01:23:48.000 And then if you see like Vanderlei versus Chuck Liddell, I have a poster On my wall in my gym at home of Vanderlei versus Chuck Liddell.

01:23:56.000 And Vanderlei's nose is just smashed.

01:23:58.000 It's just like flattened to his face.

01:24:01.000 And that was like that one where his arms are up in the air, Jamie.

01:24:04.000 See that picture up there?

01:24:05.000 Click on that.

01:24:07.000 Go large on that.

01:24:08.000 You can see in that one, I think that's that seems like after the Kung Lee fight, that's tough to tell there, but for a lot of the fights like his nose was just useless.

01:24:17.000 He couldn't breathe out of it. 0.87

01:24:18.000 So he went the other way and he got this fucking crazy nose job where they gave him a bigger nose so he could breathe out of it. 0.97

01:24:25.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:24:26.000 So you see like nose number three?

01:24:28.000 Like that image right there?

01:24:29.000 Yeah.

01:24:30.000 Look how much bigger his nose is.

01:24:32.000 But that's smart.

01:24:33.000 It's like he did that so he could breathe out of it better.

01:24:36.000 It's a lot bigger like it the bone or the cartilage you could see it like goes lower Like when you're talking to him. 0.98

01:24:43.000 Yeah, it went lower to like sort you like he has a big accentuated cartilage there That guy has taken some fucking punishment. 0.94

01:24:53.000 You want to talk about a warrior? 0.98

01:24:54.000 Yeah.

01:24:55.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

01:24:56.000 I mean, that guy has been in fucking wars. 0.99

01:25:00.000 Like down there, you see all those images? 0.99

01:25:02.000 Look at that one where he's got the white tank top right there to the right of that. 0.75

01:25:05.000 Right below that.

01:25:05.000 Yeah, right there.

01:25:06.000 That's what you could see.

01:25:07.000 Eh, tough.

01:25:08.000 Nah, it's not even at his worst.

01:25:10.000 It's not even at his worst.

01:25:11.000 At his worst is right before he got the operation. 1.00

01:25:13.000 I think it was just completely fucked. 0.99

01:25:14.000 Is that after the operation right there? 0.99

01:25:17.000 I don't think that might be photoshopped.

01:25:20.000 He was Jimmy Durante for Halloween.

01:25:23.000 Ha-cha-cha-cha! 0.99

01:25:25.000 Boy, that's a dated reference.

01:25:26.000 There, right there, that black one. 1.00

01:25:27.000 In the black shirt. 0.95

01:25:28.000 Oh, man.

01:25:29.000 Yeah, his nose is pretty smashed there, but that might be after a fight.

01:25:33.000 Yeah, I mean, that's not even at the worst. 0.89

01:25:36.000 I mean, that guy has taken some fucking insane damage in his career and we've watched his face alter because of that damage.

01:25:43.000 Out of all the fighters in the UFC and in Pride and in MMA in general, his face has altered the most because of punishment. 0.94

01:25:51.000 Minotauros probably Second. 1.00

01:25:53.000 Pretty close.

01:25:54.000 Yeah.

01:25:54.000 But I think Vandal Ace, more than anybody, because he's the one who got it fixed.

01:25:58.000 He's the only one of those guys that got it fixed.

01:26:01.000 Nick Diaz had some stuff done to his eyebrows, too.

01:26:04.000 He had so much scar tissue, and he actually had his bone shaved down, too, because the edges of his bone were quite sharp.

01:26:10.000 Yeah, that'll cut you.

01:26:11.000 I got a couple guys I trained in the Philippines like that.

01:26:14.000 They're pretty susceptible to cuts.

01:26:15.000 You want to see some boxers, man.

01:26:19.000 Did you see the Gennady Glovkin in the Chocolatito card?

01:26:22.000 People told me, dude, you want to go see Gennady Glovkin this weekend at the forum?

01:26:25.000 I said, no, I want to go see Chocolatito.

01:26:28.000 Chocolatito is a bad dude.

01:26:30.000 He is a bad dude.

01:26:31.000 One of my guys fought him in Japan about maybe six months ago.

01:26:35.000 And did a hell of a lot better than the other guy.

01:26:37.000 The ref kind of stopped it short.

01:26:39.000 I don't think we probably wouldn't have won that fight either way.

01:26:42.000 You know, Chocolatito is amazing.

01:26:44.000 But...

01:26:45.000 These lighter weight divisions, this 112 division and the 108 division right now are like exciting divisions.

01:26:51.000 And I'm just stoked that they got some coverage in the U.S. like on HBO because it shows like, I mean, it's really stacked.

01:26:58.000 If you really look into it, the lighter weight, man, it's really stacked and there's a lot of action, like a lot of knockouts.

01:27:04.000 As long as they have short referees.

01:27:06.000 Yeah.

01:27:06.000 Everything looks okay.

01:27:08.000 Like a jockey who doubles as a ref.

01:27:09.000 That'd be sick. 0.91

01:27:11.000 If you have a 108-pound fighter, you've got to have a little tiny referee.

01:27:15.000 Maybe lower the ropes a little bit, too.

01:27:17.000 Good move.

01:27:18.000 I would.

01:27:19.000 I really thought about that the last fight.

01:27:21.000 You see better.

01:27:22.000 But I got a guy who I train in the Philippines, Donny Nietes.

01:27:26.000 Donny Ahas Nietes.

01:27:27.000 He's the longest reigning Filipino champion of all time.

01:27:31.000 And this guy is such an exciting fighter.

01:27:33.000 His nickname is Ahas, which in Tagalog means snake.

01:27:37.000 So he moves like a snake in the ring, like his head movement.

01:27:41.000 His speed and timing are just on another level, but he's got one-punch knockout power.

01:27:45.000 For a 108-pound fighter, it's ridiculous the power this guy generates.

01:27:50.000 Whatever happened to Nonito Diner?

01:27:52.000 I'm actually gonna be seeing him in a few weeks in the Philippines.

01:27:55.000 I worked with him for one fight, and I actually ended up having to leave maybe like three or four weeks before the fight.

01:28:02.000 You know, some things, whatever.

01:28:06.000 I think my personal opinion, I like the guy. 0.98

01:28:08.000 As a person, he's a fucking great guy, dude. 0.93

01:28:10.000 Like a really cool person. 0.98

01:28:11.000 Seems very cool.

01:28:11.000 He really is.

01:28:12.000 But I think when he got that fighter of the year thing, maybe it went to his head a little bit.

01:28:17.000 Nonito, I'm sure you're probably hearing this.

01:28:19.000 Sorry, dude.

01:28:20.000 But I think it went to his head a little bit, and maybe the ego got in the way.

01:28:23.000 And he kind of stopped listening to the coaches.

01:28:25.000 And it was evident in the Walters fight.

01:28:28.000 He even said, like, I stopped listening to my dad.

01:28:30.000 I should have been listening to my dad on the corner.

01:28:32.000 And look what happened, you know?

01:28:34.000 Yeah.

01:28:34.000 And I said this in the training camp to some people in his entourage.

01:28:37.000 I said, you know what?

01:28:38.000 He's not listening to me.

01:28:39.000 He's coaching his dad how to train him.

01:28:44.000 This guy could potentially be one of the best boxers we've ever seen if he just listens.

01:28:49.000 At this rate, something's going to happen.

01:28:51.000 He's either going to get knocked out or he's going to get hurt. 0.98

01:28:52.000 And then everybody's going to snap and they're going to say, hey, we should have fucking done this or we should have done that. 0.98

01:28:58.000 You know what I mean? 0.98

01:28:59.000 And now he's doing it.

01:29:00.000 He's back and he's dedicated.

01:29:02.000 Is it too late?

01:29:03.000 How old is he?

01:29:04.000 No, he's 30. I think he's 31. But at a really light weight.

01:29:07.000 He's fighting at 122, I think now, right?

01:29:09.000 Yeah.

01:29:10.000 Is that right?

01:29:10.000 I think so.

01:29:11.000 He will kill the... 1.00

01:29:12.000 Like the guys in his division, he'll destroy them. 1.00

01:29:15.000 Yeah, he's 32. Yeah, he's 32. It just seems like at that age, at the lower weight classes, age is...

01:29:22.000 Like, if he was 32 years old and he was fighting in heavyweight, I would say, oh, he's in his prime.

01:29:26.000 Yeah, keep going.

01:29:27.000 Yeah, I mean, it seems like heavyweights mature later.

01:29:31.000 Do you agree with that?

01:29:32.000 You know, I don't know, to be honest.

01:29:34.000 Maybe.

01:29:34.000 I was wondering about that.

01:29:35.000 Actually, one of the things I wanted to ask you about is, is it because, like a guy like Vladimir Klitschko is just this massive person.

01:29:43.000 I always wondered, like, does it take longer to develop efficiency of movement and the ability to move your body better, to understanding your body, if you have more of it to learn?

01:29:55.000 If you're dealing with a much larger frame, much more body mass, is it more gravity?

01:30:02.000 You're dealing with more gravity.

01:30:04.000 You're dealing with the influence of that gravity.

01:30:05.000 It slows you down.

01:30:06.000 You're obviously slower than a lighter weight person.

01:30:08.000 Is it more difficult to develop mastery of skill?

01:30:13.000 Uh...

01:30:14.000 Yeah, I think, you know, that's a good question, Joe.

01:30:16.000 I think there is maybe some truth to that.

01:30:18.000 Like, the length of the limb requires, you know, the leverage that you get on the muscles is going to be a lot greater.

01:30:24.000 Like, the torque you need to generate out of the smaller muscles to control the larger limb, of course, that's going to play a big role.

01:30:31.000 So the length of the limb can determine, you know, how much force you can produce also.

01:30:36.000 So it'll play a role in the mechanics.

01:30:38.000 But I think, yeah, I think it is maybe a little bit harder for some of those big guys.

01:30:43.000 Just strictly like on the, I don't know, maybe it's the relative, the strength.

01:30:49.000 You know, I don't know.

01:30:50.000 I really can't answer that.

01:30:51.000 I don't know.

01:30:52.000 I always felt like they're just, they're dealing with more gravity.

01:30:55.000 Like it seemed to me like lighter weight guys, especially back in the kickboxing days, I had noticed that the lighter weight guys seemed to learn quicker.

01:31:04.000 They seem to pick up the skills quicker.

01:31:06.000 They're obviously always faster.

01:31:08.000 It could be a higher degree of relative strength too, like your strength to body weight ratio.

01:31:12.000 You know what I mean?

01:31:14.000 So, that could have something to do with it.

01:31:17.000 Because the other thing is, you never see a guy at heavyweight that can move like Mighty Mouse.

01:31:23.000 Right.

01:31:24.000 Like, they just don't exist.

01:31:25.000 No.

01:31:25.000 I mean, you look at...

01:31:26.000 If you watch Mighty Mouse, Demetrius Johnson, the UFC flyweight champion, the guy who, in my opinion, is the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, I think...

01:31:34.000 When it comes to taking the least amount of punishment, the ability to make great fighters look average, the ability to impose his skill set, and never runs out of gas, and is always technically in the best position.

01:31:47.000 He's always doing the right thing.

01:31:49.000 He's really, really well trained. 0.99

01:31:51.000 I've never seen a fucking heavyweight even remotely move like that. 0.98

01:31:54.000 The best heavyweight in the world is Cain Velasquez, obviously. 0.99

01:31:58.000 You think he's gonna beat Verdun?

01:31:59.000 It's a tough fight.

01:32:00.000 It's a very tough fight because his big strength is taking guys down. 1.00

01:32:05.000 Take Verdun down, you're in a world of shit. 1.00

01:32:07.000 That guy is no joke off his back. 1.00

01:32:10.000 His fucking guard is head and shoulders above anybody that Kane has ever faced, without a doubt. 0.99

01:32:15.000 Absolutely. 0.99

01:32:16.000 And I don't know who he brought in to train with it, but they're not good enough.

01:32:19.000 No. 0.99

01:32:19.000 Who the fuck are you gonna bring? 0.99

01:32:21.000 Unless you bring it in, you'd have to bring in like a Vinny Magalais, like someone who's like a really, and only specifically work the ground aspect of it. 0.99

01:32:29.000 Because Vinny can't hang with Verdum on the feet.

01:32:32.000 Right.

01:32:32.000 Because Rafael has done an amazing job of taking those guys and turning them into kickboxers.

01:32:41.000 Mm-hmm.

01:32:41.000 I mean, he's a master.

01:32:43.000 Rafael Cordero, one of the original guys from Shoot the Box, the original Brazilian Berserker camp out of Curitiba, Brazil. 0.99

01:32:50.000 They were fucking animals, man. 0.97

01:32:51.000 They were just the most feared camp ever at the time, you know? 1.00

01:32:56.000 But he's so smart and so skillful at taking those grapplers and turning them into elite strikers.

01:33:03.000 You look at Dos Anjos, you look at Verdum. 0.98

01:33:06.000 Verdum out-kickboxed Travis fucking Brown. 0.99

01:33:08.000 Right. 1.00

01:33:09.000 And Travis Brown's an animal.

01:33:10.000 Right.

01:33:11.000 You know, you figure if Verdun's gonna beat Travis Brown, he's gonna take him down and submit him, right?

01:33:14.000 No. 1.00

01:33:15.000 Kicked his ass standing. 1.00

01:33:16.000 I mean, that was crazy. 1.00

01:33:17.000 Watch him double jab Travis Brown, you know?

01:33:21.000 I mean, that was crazy to watch. 0.83

01:33:23.000 When you go back to his fight with Junior Dos Santos, or even before that, his fights in Pride, and you see the rudimentary striking he had back then, and then you look at his abilities now, pretty goddamn impressive.

01:33:35.000 Cordero is a great striking coach.

01:33:37.000 A humble guy, too.

01:33:38.000 Really, really nice guy.

01:33:40.000 He's a great guy.

01:33:41.000 I love that dude.

01:33:42.000 But if you look at the best fighters in the world, the two best guys in the heavyweight division currently, the best of all time, I kind of got to go with Fedor.

01:33:52.000 I just think Fedor, yeah, I think he's the best of all time in the heavyweight division.

01:33:56.000 I mean, maybe Kane would have beat him.

01:33:58.000 I would have loved to have seen him.

01:33:59.000 What about the natural?

01:34:01.000 Randy is really a light heavyweight.

01:34:04.000 I mean, I think at heavyweight, he was undersized.

01:34:07.000 I mean, he was a great, great fighter.

01:34:09.000 But I think, honestly, pound for pound, I just don't...

01:34:13.000 I mean, Fedor easily could have been 205-2, by the way.

01:34:17.000 You know, he wasn't a...

01:34:19.000 When you see a guy like that, it's carrying around all that extra fat.

01:34:21.000 What do you think about that?

01:34:22.000 Like, Kane carries around extra fat.

01:34:24.000 Yeah.

01:34:25.000 Uh...

01:34:26.000 I think as long, you know, again, that's...

01:34:29.000 Does it matter?

01:34:32.000 Obviously not.

01:34:33.000 But it does it. 0.98

01:34:34.000 I mean, look, he's obviously a monster. 0.96

01:34:35.000 Right. 0.83

01:34:36.000 But would he be better if he had very little body fat?

01:34:40.000 No, not necessarily, no.

01:34:42.000 Because that goes back to what we're saying about the rate of force development and how...

01:34:46.000 If you look how explosive Fedor is, despite not looking like Hercules, that goes back to what we're talking about, the rate of force development and how the nervous system...

01:34:56.000 You know, plays the greatest role in how much force you produce, so how explosive you are.

01:35:02.000 He's an interesting case, too, in that he started off his career early on.

01:35:06.000 He was into heavy kettlebells, did a lot of lifting, and he was a thicker, bigger guy.

01:35:11.000 Yeah.

01:35:11.000 And then as time went on, he talked about how he didn't lift weights anymore, and he just relied on skill training.

01:35:18.000 Yeah.

01:35:18.000 He just would wrestle and do sambo and kickboxing and all that stuff.

01:35:22.000 I remember you asking, I think I heard a show where you're asking, you know, you're wondering what the Russian guys are doing, like these wrestling guys, like what are they doing for their conditioning?

01:35:31.000 The truth is, not much.

01:35:33.000 They're not doing weights.

01:35:34.000 A lot of them, they're just wrestling.

01:35:36.000 I know this because, I don't know if you know, I train Aaron Pico.

01:35:39.000 Are you familiar with Aaron Pico?

01:35:40.000 Yeah.

01:35:40.000 So he's one of my guys too.

01:35:43.000 So I train him, and he goes out there for months at a time and trains with the Russians and the Ukrainian national teams.

01:35:47.000 And he says, no, they just wrestle.

01:35:49.000 That's it.

01:35:50.000 No strength and conditioning at all?

01:35:51.000 Not really, no.

01:35:51.000 Wow.

01:35:52.000 What do you think about that?

01:35:53.000 Maybe some running and stuff like that.

01:35:55.000 I think, well, they've got great wrestlers.

01:35:57.000 Right.

01:35:58.000 So I would almost rather have that than have a detrimental thing in there, like heavy weightlifting or something like that.

01:36:04.000 I would rather have them just focusing all their energy on their skill and doing some like cardiovascular training.

01:36:11.000 Have you ever seen the workouts that Cain Velasquez does online?

01:36:14.000 No, I haven't.

01:36:15.000 You want to throw up?

01:36:16.000 Sure.

01:36:17.000 Okay.

01:36:17.000 I don't mean in a good way.

01:36:18.000 Let's check it out.

01:36:19.000 Cain Velasquez has some weightlifting routines that he has some guy working out with him.

01:36:24.000 I showed it to Steve Maxwell.

01:36:25.000 Steve Maxwell got angry.

01:36:27.000 Really?

01:36:27.000 Yeah.

01:36:27.000 Let's check it out.

01:36:28.000 He's got a video.

01:36:29.000 Yeah, show kettlebell swings.

01:36:31.000 He's doing like really heavy kettlebell swings.

01:36:34.000 I'm not lying.

01:36:35.000 Maxwell got angry.

01:36:37.000 Really?

01:36:37.000 He got angry.

01:36:38.000 Steve Maxwell, the kettlebell master, right?

01:36:40.000 That guy's been into it for a long time, huh?

01:36:41.000 Well, he's not just kettlebell master.

01:36:43.000 He's just like an overall fitness guru.

01:36:46.000 Right.

01:36:46.000 Like, he understands the human body.

01:36:48.000 He's like a real student of all sorts of different modalities.

01:36:51.000 Like, watch this.

01:36:52.000 Yeah, watch this.

01:36:53.000 He's got this giant kettlebell that he's done.

01:36:56.000 Oh my gosh.

01:36:56.000 Look at this.

01:36:59.000 It's almost like he's doing...

01:37:01.000 Look at how tense he is.

01:37:03.000 But it's not really a swing because he's kind of pulling it up.

01:37:07.000 Almost like a deadlift.

01:37:09.000 It's got to make him stronger, but the lower back thing he's doing is not swing-like.

01:37:15.000 He's like popping it up.

01:37:16.000 Right.

01:37:18.000 Whereas, every other kettlebell swing, you'll see.

01:37:21.000 I have no idea how it's gonna help him in the UFC. It's gonna make him stronger, I guess.

01:37:27.000 It's gonna make him stronger at doing kettlebells. 1.00

01:37:29.000 I bet he lays a pipe like a motherfucker. 1.00

01:37:34.000 That's true. 1.00

01:37:35.000 That's true.

01:37:36.000 See if you can find a correct technique, double-handed kettlebell swing, online.

01:37:41.000 Like, maybe Maxwell has a video or someone else.

01:37:43.000 Or Mike Mahler is very good at that.

01:37:46.000 And he's a great instructor as far as, like, proper fundamentals.

01:37:52.000 But there's a bunch of those that he has.

01:37:54.000 Like, one of them is leg extensions.

01:37:56.000 I'll show you the Cain Velasquez leg extension one.

01:37:58.000 He'll throw up at that one, too.

01:37:59.000 Because he's doing, like, 300 pounds.

01:38:01.000 Okay.

01:38:02.000 Leg extensions and he's doing sets of 20 or 30. I wonder how that happened.

01:38:07.000 Crazy.

01:38:08.000 Both shoulders blown out.

01:38:10.000 Is his shoulders repaired?

01:38:11.000 See this guy.

01:38:12.000 This guy's using three pounds.

01:38:14.000 This might not be the best guy to look at.

01:38:15.000 But this is how it's supposed to look.

01:38:18.000 Right?

01:38:19.000 He's popping his hips forward and the arm swings.

01:38:22.000 That's why it's called a kettlebell swing.

01:38:24.000 Yeah, I went through the kettlebell phase too like 10, 15 years ago.

01:38:26.000 You were an early adopter?

01:38:28.000 Yeah.

01:38:29.000 I love them.

01:38:30.000 Do you?

01:38:30.000 My favorite thing to work out with.

01:38:31.000 You know what?

01:38:32.000 For an athlete, I wouldn't have them doing them, to be honest.

01:38:34.000 Really?

01:38:35.000 Yeah.

01:38:35.000 But for guys like you and me, as we're getting older, I'm going to be 42. I need to keep the muscle on a little bit.

01:38:42.000 For general fitness, I don't think there's anything wrong.

01:38:45.000 Performance-wise, like I said, the movement pattern there, you're sitting back on your heels.

01:38:49.000 You're training, excuse me, you're sitting back on your heels, you're training yourself to...

01:38:53.000 I felt it affect me. 0.99

01:38:55.000 Like, I've been in that position where I've been training with guys, and I'm like, fuck, why is this guy taking me down? 0.98

01:39:00.000 I'm way better than this dude, but he's beating me to the punch every time. 0.98

01:39:04.000 Because I was sitting back on my heels.

01:39:06.000 I was in that kettlebell posture when I'm standing there.

01:39:08.000 Really?

01:39:09.000 And I'm standing there with my back bent and my heels are flat on the ground.

01:39:13.000 Why couldn't I get off my toes?

01:39:14.000 Because I've trained my body to sit back on the heels.

01:39:17.000 That's interesting.

01:39:18.000 So your body automatically went into that posture.

01:39:22.000 Exactly.

01:39:22.000 So you can retrain that though.

01:39:24.000 That's the good thing.

01:39:25.000 It takes some time.

01:39:26.000 But you train the forefoot so you're quicker on the...

01:39:28.000 How many times have you heard it in sports?

01:39:30.000 Man, these guys are on their toes now.

01:39:31.000 They really look great.

01:39:32.000 They're...

01:39:33.000 You know?

01:39:34.000 What do you think about, like, Turkish get-ups for grappling?

01:39:36.000 I'm a big fan of those.

01:39:38.000 I just...

01:39:39.000 I don't know how that plays into grappling.

01:39:42.000 Just being able to lift heavy weight off of you, get up off your back, have that core strength.

01:39:48.000 Again, like, I don't know.

01:39:49.000 I think at a high, really proficient level of jiu-jitsu, you're not going to lift anything off you.

01:39:53.000 You're going to move around it.

01:39:54.000 You know what I mean?

01:39:55.000 Like, maybe the best...

01:39:56.000 Shoulder stability, maybe?

01:39:57.000 Does it help in that way?

01:39:59.000 It's only gonna help wherever you...

01:40:01.000 You know what?

01:40:02.000 I don't know.

01:40:02.000 I was having this problem with my back and this guy gave me advice.

01:40:07.000 This guy was a strength and conditioning coach to do a lot of windmills.

01:40:12.000 He was like, windmills, you know, kettlebell windmills, like dropping down like that, are really good for stabilizing the spine, stabilizing the shoulder joint and, you know, anything that is in the thoracic area.

01:40:25.000 Yeah.

01:40:25.000 Opening that up.

01:40:27.000 Yeah.

01:40:27.000 The cervical area as well.

01:40:29.000 Yeah.

01:40:29.000 What do you think about neck exercises?

01:40:31.000 I love them.

01:40:32.000 Do you?

01:40:33.000 But I'm not big on like the neck bridging.

01:40:35.000 I think that the discs are so small in the neck that, you know, you put, man, I used to do like 45 pound plates on my chest and do the neck bridges on the back of my head.

01:40:43.000 Really? 1.00

01:40:44.000 It was just stupid. 1.00

01:40:45.000 I've got this exercising machine that straps onto your head. 1.00

01:40:49.000 I mean, you look like a retard. 1.00

01:40:52.000 Is it that eight-way neck machine? 0.99

01:40:53.000 Is that what it is?

01:40:54.000 Or is it a different thing? 0.98

01:40:55.000 Damn, maybe I have a picture or something. 0.95

01:40:57.000 I don't know if I have a picture on my Instagram or not, but no, it's... 0.98

01:41:01.000 What's it called?

01:41:02.000 It's called a halo.

01:41:03.000 Oh, I've seen that.

01:41:04.000 Have you?

01:41:05.000 Okay, yeah.

01:41:05.000 And it's got a strap under the chin and a Velcro strap on the top, and you pump it up with air, and it's like this big metal thing.

01:41:12.000 I mean, you look ridiculous wearing it. 0.88

01:41:14.000 And what do you do? 0.98

01:41:15.000 And you can exercise in all ranges of motion.

01:41:17.000 It has like an elastic band that you'll attach to a wall, so you can put just a little bit of tension on it.

01:41:23.000 See if you can find that, Jamie.

01:41:25.000 If not, I have a video on my phone.

01:41:26.000 I don't know if he can show that on there, but...

01:41:28.000 Probably.

01:41:30.000 But it's pretty cool.

01:41:31.000 If you could email it to him, he could show it.

01:41:33.000 Don't give out his email.

01:41:34.000 No battery?

01:41:35.000 No, you don't have a battery?

01:41:36.000 No.

01:41:37.000 We have a charger, I'm sure.

01:41:39.000 That's an iPhone?

01:41:40.000 Yeah.

01:41:41.000 Is there a charger?

01:41:42.000 This thing?

01:41:42.000 Is this it right here?

01:41:45.000 Similar to that.

01:41:45.000 Neckflex Halo?

01:41:47.000 No, this one is a little more hardcore.

01:41:50.000 The one I got is about $700 or $800.

01:41:53.000 Does it have a...

01:41:55.000 So it has a rubber band?

01:41:57.000 Yeah, it's got like a band attachment.

01:41:59.000 Man, do you have a thing?

01:42:00.000 I can plug this in and I'll show you.

01:42:03.000 Is there a...

01:42:03.000 There's a plug back there somewhere?

01:42:05.000 Right behind you?

01:42:08.000 That's it, right there.

01:42:09.000 Oh, okay.

01:42:09.000 Check this thing out.

01:42:10.000 Oh, wow. 1.00

01:42:11.000 Look at this fucking thing. 1.00

01:42:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:42:13.000 A little spaceship-looking thing.

01:42:14.000 Yeah.

01:42:15.000 Okay, so this...

01:42:16.000 I really like this.

01:42:17.000 Oh, so it rotates, so it moves around.

01:42:19.000 Yeah, so you can hit every angle.

01:42:21.000 Mmm, okay.

01:42:22.000 And that's the pump-up part.

01:42:23.000 Right.

01:42:24.000 The little...

01:42:24.000 So you put it on.

01:42:26.000 Uh-huh.

01:42:26.000 Oh, I have seen this.

01:42:27.000 Okay.

01:42:28.000 I've seen this very video.

01:42:29.000 So it has this thing on, and it's just a rubber band that's the resistance?

01:42:35.000 Yeah, exactly like that.

01:42:36.000 Or you can use it with a weight stack.

01:42:39.000 So he's moving his head and spinning around in a circle.

01:42:42.000 Yeah.

01:42:43.000 So you can exercise at all different angles.

01:42:45.000 What is the resistance, though?

01:42:46.000 Is the resistance the spinning of his head, or is it pulling?

01:42:49.000 It's a combination of the two.

01:42:51.000 That looks like a cable.

01:42:53.000 So if you see it's pulling right there, he'll be exercising the side of his head.

01:42:55.000 If he faces it, he'll be exercising the back of his neck.

01:42:58.000 Excuse me, the back side of his neck.

01:43:00.000 He looks like he's got a steel cable, like he's doing a lat pulldown.

01:43:04.000 Yeah, he's probably got it hooked up to like a cable machine.

01:43:07.000 But I have a guy I'm training right now.

01:43:09.000 He's actually going to Mexico next week for a title fight, but he put on two inches in the last month.

01:43:14.000 Oh, his neck?

01:43:15.000 Yeah, on his neck.

01:43:15.000 Is that good?

01:43:16.000 Yeah, it's fucking great. 0.99

01:43:18.000 It's 108 pounds with a 16-inch neck. 0.99

01:43:21.000 Jesus Christ.

01:43:22.000 It's called the Iron Neck Dynamic Neck Strengthening Rotary Cable Attachment.

01:43:27.000 Gives pointers as he takes a college football player through the Iron Neck Basic Workout.

01:43:33.000 Huh.

01:43:33.000 So you have this guy.

01:43:35.000 He puts this exact thing on that you got right here.

01:43:38.000 Yep.

01:43:38.000 And then what do you have him do with this?

01:43:40.000 Similar stuff to what you just saw right there, like rotational exercises of the neck.

01:43:47.000 And it's all circular movements, all different movements.

01:43:51.000 And that doesn't fuck with the discs or anything?

01:43:53.000 No, no.

01:43:55.000 Because it's very lightweight?

01:43:56.000 Well, yeah, if you're going to go on there and put like, you know, 80, 90 pounds on there, 100 pounds or something.

01:44:01.000 What do you think about those traditional ones that people use, those leather things with the chain that hangs down?

01:44:06.000 I'm not a big fan of them.

01:44:08.000 I think because it's too linear, and again, you don't really get the stretch out of the muscle.

01:44:14.000 It's just like an isotonic contraction, so that's just the same weight going up and down over and over.

01:44:18.000 Right.

01:44:19.000 Now, would you recommend something like that to somebody who had a neck injury they're trying to recover from?

01:44:23.000 You know what?

01:44:24.000 I think, actually, I believe they use them at the Disc Institute or the place in L.A., you know, Marina Del Rey, the spine or whatever, disc or something like that.

01:44:31.000 Whatever they have the places, yeah.

01:44:32.000 Yeah, I think they have it there.

01:44:34.000 So they use that for rehabilitation?

01:44:35.000 I believe so, yeah.

01:44:37.000 Because there's a lot of different, like Kelly Starr again, I hate to bring him up again, but he hates a lot of these machines that are out there, like those machines where you can lean inside.

01:44:50.000 Yeah, four-way neck, flexion extension, all that stuff.

01:44:51.000 Do you hate those things, too?

01:44:52.000 I don't hate, but I just don't use them.

01:44:56.000 I think the pattern of the movement is too linear.

01:45:00.000 It's not efficient enough for sports and stuff.

01:45:03.000 Right, so it doesn't mimic how you would use the neck in real life.

01:45:06.000 Same like a squat or maybe a bench prep. 0.57

01:45:09.000 You know what I mean?

01:45:10.000 Because I think if there would be a way to strengthen your neck up, that would be really crucial for striking sports.

01:45:16.000 Anything where your head's getting jolted back more than it should.

01:45:19.000 Yeah.

01:45:19.000 And then the endurance of the neck is like, you know, you're in a longer bout.

01:45:23.000 You know, you can't resist anymore.

01:45:25.000 Right.

01:45:26.000 And then your head flies back more.

01:45:27.000 Absolutely.

01:45:28.000 I think it's been shown, too, to reduce concussion, like the damage from head injuries, you know.

01:45:33.000 I'm sure.

01:45:34.000 So, Ruslan, we use that thing frequently.

01:45:36.000 He can do it also with like an exercise ball.

01:45:38.000 You can put it against the wall and roll your head against it.

01:45:41.000 You know what I mean?

01:45:41.000 There's a lot of different ways.

01:45:42.000 He can use a towel.

01:45:44.000 So, I mean, I've got a lot of different modalities I use.

01:45:47.000 But, yeah, we really focus with Ruslan on like durability for this training too.

01:45:54.000 Really building the abdominals and the obliques and the lower back and then the neck.

01:45:59.000 And what kind of exercises do you do for the abdominals?

01:46:02.000 You know, I like the, we call it the horse, but the glute hand machine.

01:46:07.000 You can do a lot of abdominal exercises on there.

01:46:10.000 You can do, like, the Russian twist.

01:46:11.000 I like that exercise.

01:46:12.000 I like a lot of, like, medicine ball, rotational medicine ball throws.

01:46:15.000 So the glute hand machine, you're, like, leaning back, way back on, like, the big padded hump.

01:46:21.000 Yeah, exactly, that one, yeah.

01:46:22.000 Mm-hmm.

01:46:23.000 Why do you like that one particularly?

01:46:25.000 It's pretty versatile, I think.

01:46:28.000 For how basic it is, I think it's pretty versatile as far as the amount of exercises and how specific you can get with each muscle group.

01:46:36.000 If I want to target your obliques, I can hit that oblique so easily just by turning your hip a certain way.

01:46:42.000 You know what I mean?

01:46:43.000 And I can find all these little weak areas in the abdominals. 0.95

01:46:46.000 And the feet lock in in sort of a similar way to an old school sit-up bench?

01:46:52.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:46:55.000 How's those old school sit-up benches? 0.99

01:46:56.000 Are those bullshit? 1.00

01:46:57.000 You know what? 1.00

01:46:58.000 No, I don't think so.

01:46:59.000 I think you can get some good work done on those, believe it or not.

01:47:01.000 But they're not as good as the...

01:47:04.000 No, my preference is the glute ham.

01:47:07.000 I like that better.

01:47:08.000 That's the glute ham?

01:47:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:47:09.000 And that's a guy facing forward, you have him face backwards as well?

01:47:13.000 Yeah, you can go both ways, yeah.

01:47:14.000 Lower back, you want to get the back in there. 1.00

01:47:16.000 And that machine seems like it would give you some spinal decompression as well, right?

01:47:21.000 Absolutely, yeah.

01:47:21.000 It's phenomenal for the lower back.

01:47:24.000 And is that guy holding a weight in his chest when he's doing that, if you look up?

01:47:28.000 What are those two guys doing on the right?

01:47:30.000 They're banging.

01:47:31.000 That's the way to do it, if you're going to bang a guy. 1.00

01:47:34.000 Yeah, what the fuck is that? 1.00

01:47:35.000 What the fuck is that? 1.00

01:47:35.000 That's the same guy. 1.00

01:47:37.000 That's two different faces.

01:47:38.000 Come on, is it?

01:47:39.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:47:40.000 That's what it is.

01:47:40.000 No, this guy's banging his buddy.

01:47:42.000 That's how you do it.

01:47:43.000 You know, it's pretty interesting.

01:47:44.000 You know how that machine was invented was the Russians took a pommel horse And they moved it up to the wall. 0.94

01:47:52.000 They stuck a 2x4 on the wall.

01:47:54.000 And they just put their feet on the wall and do back extensions over it. 1.00

01:47:58.000 No shit. 0.99

01:47:59.000 Yeah, pretty cool, huh? 0.99

01:48:00.000 That is pretty cool.

01:48:01.000 Have you seen the reverse hyper?

01:48:03.000 Yeah, I have.

01:48:03.000 What do you think about that?

01:48:04.000 I think it's good.

01:48:05.000 I have one of those back there.

01:48:07.000 I love that thing.

01:48:08.000 Yeah, I think there's some...

01:48:09.000 Is that better, do you think?

01:48:11.000 The glute ham?

01:48:12.000 I think the way you do the exercise is the most important.

01:48:16.000 That's the key.

01:48:17.000 What's cool about the reverse hyper is on the descending, it's got like an active decompression.

01:48:23.000 It's like releasing.

01:48:24.000 Oh, is that right?

01:48:25.000 Yeah, well you feel it.

01:48:26.000 You feel like pulling.

01:48:27.000 On your lower back slightly, and then you're lifting up and strengthening all that.

01:48:31.000 Yeah.

01:48:31.000 So now this, like for sports performance, the speed at which you do that would be a crucial factor.

01:48:36.000 You want to feel the stretch out of the tendons and ligaments before it fires back up.

01:48:40.000 And the weight that you would put on it.

01:48:42.000 Exactly.

01:48:42.000 How much weight would you put on that?

01:48:45.000 Maybe start off with two and a half pound ankle weights at first.

01:48:48.000 Really?

01:48:49.000 And just build it up.

01:48:51.000 So you explode up, lower down.

01:48:54.000 I don't load guys up with weight unless the quality of the movement and the speed will not be compromised.

01:49:02.000 So if that's compromised, then there's no sense in moving it up.

01:49:05.000 For me, it's all about getting the guy faster, producing more force.

01:49:11.000 So when you have a guy like Dos Anjos, and you obviously got him in incredible shape, do you incorporate any traditional exercises that people are familiar with?

01:49:20.000 Like, say, hill sprints or sandbags or anything?

01:49:24.000 Hill sprinting is kind of, like, that's old school, you know? 1.00

01:49:28.000 Like, I used to do that shit like crazy, but fuck, man, I pushed myself to the limit. 0.99

01:49:32.000 Like, oh, my heart rate's like 190. Wow, I'm really pushing it, 195. But it slows you down. 0.99

01:49:40.000 Your sprinting should be done for speed.

01:49:42.000 Again.

01:49:43.000 So running up a hill, why would you try to go fast?

01:49:45.000 You're running against resistance.

01:49:47.000 You're making yourself slow.

01:49:48.000 It's actually been shown that it's proven.

01:49:50.000 You can look this up in the strength and conditioning manuals, whatever, that downhill sprinting has been shown to increase the top speed in sprinter's performance.

01:49:59.000 Downhill?

01:50:00.000 Because you're decelerating.

01:50:01.000 You're slowing yourself down.

01:50:03.000 Because it's forcing your body to adapt to a higher speed.

01:50:05.000 Oh.

01:50:06.000 You know what I mean?

01:50:07.000 So instead you're going up hills, you're forcing your body to adapt to a slower speed. 0.98

01:50:12.000 But you feel like you're gonna fucking faceplant at any moment. 0.98

01:50:16.000 Right. 0.96

01:50:17.000 I think the biggest misconception with all the resistance type training is that somehow you're gonna put the weight down and you're gonna move faster.

01:50:25.000 Right.

01:50:26.000 People believe that.

01:50:27.000 But why?

01:50:29.000 Because you can lift the heavier weight and so your muscles are stronger and it makes you faster.

01:50:33.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:50:34.000 Doesn't work that way?

01:50:35.000 No, it doesn't work that way.

01:50:36.000 Wasn't there some sort of a study on power lifters that they found out that power lifters that increased their ability to do vertical leaps and all sorts of other different explosive exercises just because of power lifting?

01:50:47.000 There might be some truth to that and Olympic lifting as well.

01:50:50.000 They found there are good sprinters.

01:50:52.000 But you would say that that's strengthening of the feet?

01:50:54.000 I'd say that has a lot to do with it, but also the strength of the quadricep in relation to the leg in relation to the rest of the body, but how do they move laterally?

01:51:04.000 How do they move rotationally?

01:51:05.000 That's where they're deficient.

01:51:08.000 Well, when you see a really big bulky guy in the UFC, it becomes super obvious when they fight a guy who can move, you know, moves real good.

01:51:15.000 They're almost like stuck in mud.

01:51:17.000 Exactly.

01:51:17.000 Yeah.

01:51:19.000 When you see, but you know, for some guys, like their style, like Husmar Palhares, you know, he's a guy where that big, beefy fucking build, all he's trying to do is grab ahold of your leg and rip it apart. 0.99

01:51:30.000 Right. 0.96

01:51:31.000 So it's like, it's almost for him, it seems to benefit him to be...

01:51:35.000 Like, really over-muscular and super strong because he's about that very small movement.

01:51:40.000 Uh-huh.

01:51:41.000 Or a very small group of movements, rather.

01:51:43.000 It's pretty interesting because I'm actually training another guy from the UFC. I just started working with him about a month ago.

01:51:48.000 Ricardo Demanche Abreu.

01:51:51.000 Oh! 0.60

01:51:53.000 Cyborg?

01:51:53.000 No.

01:51:55.000 Ricardo Abreu.

01:51:57.000 This guy's another really good jiu-jitsu guy from Brazil.

01:52:00.000 But this guy is...

01:52:01.000 How long has he fought in the UFC? I don't know how many fights he has now.

01:52:03.000 Maybe this will be his second or third, I think.

01:52:06.000 He's pretty new.

01:52:07.000 I'm thinking a cyborg or brew.

01:52:08.000 He's fighting on the June 6th card, I think.

01:52:11.000 There's one on June 6th, right?

01:52:13.000 Probably.

01:52:13.000 It's one of the fight night cards.

01:52:14.000 Yeah, he's fighting on that one.

01:52:16.000 Oh, there he is.

01:52:17.000 Yeah, that's him.

01:52:19.000 How many fights he had in the UFC? Just one.

01:52:24.000 One?

01:52:24.000 Yeah.

01:52:25.000 Fight Night, René Gachoc, Hoodie Fight, Wagner.

01:52:29.000 Okay.

01:52:30.000 He's another guy.

01:52:31.000 I mean, you look at this guy and he's just like freakishly built.

01:52:34.000 Oh, he was in the Brazil card, the Miocic versus Maldonado card.

01:52:38.000 Yeah.

01:52:38.000 Really good Jiu Jitsu too, this guy.

01:52:40.000 He's fought with Hadra Gracie and all those guys.

01:52:44.000 But he is a classic case of a guy who's lifting.

01:52:46.000 I mean, he's huge, but just ripped.

01:52:49.000 And he's lifting all these heavy weights slowly.

01:52:53.000 I got him out there the first day of sprinting.

01:52:55.000 I couldn't believe how slow the poor guy was.

01:52:57.000 Slower molasses. 0.99

01:52:59.000 It blew my freaking mind. 0.97

01:53:00.000 Here's this gigantic muscle-bound guy. 0.95

01:53:02.000 And the guy couldn't.

01:53:03.000 It looked like he was jogging.

01:53:05.000 Really?

01:53:06.000 Yeah.

01:53:06.000 Maybe he was taking it slow because he thought you were going to torture him.

01:53:08.000 No, dude.

01:53:09.000 Go slow today.

01:53:10.000 My friend, I don't want to get that tired.

01:53:12.000 And then I have him do like a throw-off like what I showed you with the plyometric bench press type movement.

01:53:17.000 Maybe like 45 pounds.

01:53:19.000 Right.

01:53:21.000 The guy can barely throw it off six inches.

01:53:23.000 Really?

01:53:24.000 Yeah, because his muscles are trained to be short and slow here.

01:53:28.000 So the body remembers the movement pattern and the speed, not just, you know what I'm saying?

01:53:33.000 So you're training slow twitch.

01:53:35.000 And now, already a month later, like, getting huge gains, like, getting explosive, like, Friday was a breakthrough day.

01:53:43.000 Yeah?

01:53:44.000 Yeah.

01:53:44.000 A month later.

01:53:45.000 Yeah.

01:53:46.000 That's interesting.

01:53:47.000 Yeah.

01:53:47.000 That's interesting.

01:53:48.000 So you would take a guy like that.

01:53:50.000 Yeah.

01:53:50.000 He's a good example.

01:53:51.000 Thick, very physically strong.

01:53:53.000 He's obviously freaking huge, right? 0.83

01:53:54.000 Right.

01:53:55.000 Yeah.

01:53:55.000 So what do you do with a guy like that?

01:53:57.000 Like, what's the first thing you do?

01:53:58.000 First thing I do is get a movement, dynamic movements.

01:54:01.000 Getting him to move a little quicker on his feet, learning how to do more coordination exercises, but keeping him loose and dynamic rather than anything that's tense and going to tighten him up.

01:54:12.000 Even the shadow boxing a month ago, it looks like slow motion.

01:54:17.000 Now it looks pretty good.

01:54:19.000 That's amazing.

01:54:20.000 You can do so much progress or make so much progress happen in such a short period of time.

01:54:25.000 Yeah, it is.

01:54:27.000 Yeah, it's really...

01:54:28.000 I'm not going to say it was easy because this is one of the harder cases.

01:54:30.000 Usually it takes about two weeks before I start seeing a difference.

01:54:33.000 But, no, once you get that breakthrough and you start seeing them moving differently and quicker, man, it's on from there.

01:54:39.000 It's like, okay, now we can start really progressing and hitting the nervous system with really, like, intense biometrics and stuff like that.

01:54:46.000 Now, how cutting-edge is this style of training?

01:54:50.000 I mean, Marinovich, did he invent all this?

01:54:54.000 Marv did was he took...

01:54:55.000 Uh, scientific studies from, from what the Russians had developed back, you know, during the Cold War period, and he translated into his, his exercises.

01:55:05.000 And so, I'd say at least 80% of what I'm doing is, is stuff that he's come up with.

01:55:11.000 80%?

01:55:12.000 Yeah, maybe 75, 80, yeah, but something like that.

01:55:14.000 And how did you do, did you do like an internship with him?

01:55:17.000 Like how did you?

01:55:17.000 Yeah, um, And even if it's not what he's doing, it's something along the lines.

01:55:22.000 You know, it's something similar.

01:55:23.000 It's very heavily influenced by what the Russians came up with and their studies of the nervous system.

01:55:29.000 And so Marv took these things and translated it into exercises and it's just been phenomenal.

01:55:34.000 Like, you know, it's just...

01:55:36.000 It's really...

01:55:37.000 You gotta try it, man.

01:55:39.000 Yeah, I know.

01:55:39.000 I believe you.

01:55:40.000 Come fucking work out with me for two weeks. 1.00

01:55:42.000 I'll change your life. 1.00

01:55:43.000 But you're way the fuck down there. 1.00

01:55:44.000 Where are you? 0.99

01:55:44.000 So what, dude? 0.99

01:55:45.000 Where are you?

01:55:46.000 I'm in Woodland Hills.

01:55:47.000 Oh, look, you're here right now.

01:55:49.000 I'm in Burbank, bro.

01:55:51.000 Let's do this.

01:55:52.000 Okay, we'll do it.

01:55:53.000 I would love to.

01:55:54.000 I would love to.

01:55:54.000 Change your life.

01:55:55.000 You're a guy with an open mind, you'd be blown away at the difference.

01:55:58.000 Well, I would love to, just from the point of view, I mean, first of all, for a person, I'm always trying to work on, you know, different things and improve different things about my performance physically, but I also, as a commentator, I think...

01:56:11.000 It would help.

01:56:12.000 I think it would help a lot.

01:56:13.000 That's what...

01:56:14.000 One thing I really like, Joe, is how you've educated the fans.

01:56:17.000 And this is something I think maybe boxing needs a little bit more of.

01:56:20.000 It's like educating the fans on the different techniques and strategies of the fighters.

01:56:25.000 You remember that one fight?

01:56:26.000 I think it was Anderson Silva and the crowd was booing.

01:56:29.000 I think it was Anderson Silva.

01:56:30.000 He won and the crowd was booing.

01:56:31.000 You're like, why are you guys booing? 1.00

01:56:32.000 That was like a great performance, like a fucking strategic performance. 0.99

01:56:36.000 Well, I loved Floyd Mayweather versus Pacquiao. 0.99

01:56:39.000 You did?

01:56:39.000 Yeah, I mean, I love skill.

01:56:43.000 Yeah.

01:56:43.000 I mean, skill is very important to me.

01:56:44.000 I didn't love it.

01:56:45.000 I respect it.

01:56:46.000 Like, I respect Mayweather's skill.

01:56:48.000 Like, he's a phenomenal boxer.

01:56:49.000 I just would have liked to see it for 200 million bucks.

01:56:52.000 Like, go for the kill, dude.

01:56:54.000 You know, the guy's tired in the 12th round.

01:56:56.000 Put a little something out there for the fans.

01:56:58.000 I loved it, but I didn't love it as much as I loved Canelo Alvarez, James Kirkland.

01:57:03.000 Like that was more, or Matisse and Provodnikov.

01:57:06.000 Yeah.

01:57:06.000 That was more my, I mean, that was definitely more crazy to watch.

01:57:10.000 I mean, one of my favorite fights of all time in the UFC, I mean, there's been a few favorite fights, but Dan Henderson versus Shogun.

01:57:16.000 Yeah.

01:57:16.000 Which was just phenomenal.

01:57:18.000 I just watched that the other day, man.

01:57:20.000 Oh my god, that gave me brain damage just watching it.

01:57:22.000 The other one I watched the other day was the Don Frye versus, uh...

01:57:26.000 Takayama?

01:57:28.000 Oh, wow!

01:57:30.000 Yeah, that exchange when the two of them were in the corner, and we're just collars high, haymaker, haymaker.

01:57:37.000 That was bleeding out of his eyeball, man.

01:57:38.000 That was insanity.

01:57:39.000 I love it.

01:57:40.000 Yeah, that was crazy. 0.92

01:57:41.000 Some of those pride fights were fucking absolutely nuts. 0.96

01:57:44.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:57:44.000 But I'm a fan of skill. 0.97

01:57:46.000 Like, that's why I said Mighty Mouse is one of my favorite guys to watch.

01:57:49.000 Right.

01:57:50.000 But Vanderlei's probably my all-time favorite. 0.99

01:57:52.000 Although Vanderlei's skillful, what I loved about Vanderlei was just you knew you were going to see some fucking chaos. 0.99

01:57:57.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:57:58.000 When that guy got in there and started rolling his knuckles, he knew you were gonna see some shit. 0.98

01:58:02.000 I'm so happy that he got that lifetime ban rescinded. 0.98

01:58:06.000 I don't know whether or not he was on, I don't know what the fuck he was on, but I do know that the vast majority of those guys are doing something to help them recover and when you take a guy and you take away his livelihood forever, you say you can never fight again. 0.97

01:58:21.000 That to me is just disgusting. 0.99

01:58:23.000 It's disgusting. 0.97

01:58:24.000 You can't do that.

01:58:25.000 You do that to Kung Lee too, right?

01:58:26.000 And they took it back or something like that?

01:58:28.000 No.

01:58:28.000 Kung Lee, they were going to give him a one-year suspension.

01:58:33.000 They were going to give him nine months, and they tried to shift it to one year.

01:58:36.000 He had agreed to nine months, and then when they tried to shift it to one year, that's when he started hearing all these people on the internet that were saying that the tests that they did were not proper.

01:58:48.000 Yeah, mishandled or something, right?

01:58:50.000 Either mishandled or the protocol wasn't established.

01:58:54.000 What the UFC did is they kind of overstepped their ability.

01:58:58.000 If you're going to have someone get tested, you really have to have some WADA-type organization come in and handle it.

01:59:06.000 People that have been doing that forever.

01:59:07.000 The people that handle the testing did not do the best job.

01:59:10.000 I see.

01:59:11.000 The results were in question.

01:59:13.000 They would not have probably held up in court, and the UFC had to stand down.

01:59:17.000 So now, Kung Lee is involved in some crazy lawsuit with the UFC, and he's a part of the whole class action lawsuit thing.

01:59:23.000 But I think he was also kind of on his way out.

01:59:25.000 I think it's a bit of a money grab in certain ways.

01:59:29.000 But I think the Bisping fight was It was an interesting fight because Kong looked great. 0.98

01:59:36.000 He was ripped, chiseled, and that's why people were like, what the fuck is going on with that guy? 0.89

01:59:41.000 Like, what is he up to? 0.95

01:59:42.000 He gets these tests, the results in question, but the tests apparently showed very high growth hormone rates, like unusually high.

01:59:51.000 But when the tests are in question, I'm obviously not a doctor or a scientist. 0.98

01:59:56.000 I don't know what the fuck really happened. 0.97

01:59:57.000 Right. 0.99

01:59:58.000 Guy looked awesome at 40-something for the first time ever. 0.99

02:00:01.000 He looked fucking yoked and jacked. 0.98

02:00:03.000 It was a pretty quick transformation. 0.99

02:00:04.000 Kind of like Juan Marquez when he fought Pacquiao.

02:00:07.000 Yes.

02:00:08.000 Yeah, that was an interesting one, too.

02:00:10.000 Same gym or something.

02:00:12.000 Well, he was Pacquiao's guy.

02:00:13.000 Pacquiao's old guy.

02:00:15.000 Alex Ariza, yeah.

02:00:17.000 There's a lot of that going on, you know?

02:00:20.000 When you hear, okay, we kind of talked about this slightly, but you didn't touch on it.

02:00:24.000 There was a bunch of people, like Bobby Green was accusing Rafael Los Angeles.

02:00:29.000 Is he a fighter?

02:00:29.000 He's a high-level fighter in the UFC's lightweight division.

02:00:32.000 What's he ranked, you know?

02:00:33.000 He's highly ranked.

02:00:34.000 Is he?

02:00:35.000 Yeah, if he's not 10, he's top 15. I don't know what rank he is.

02:00:39.000 I'll find out.

02:00:40.000 But he's a very good fighter.

02:00:42.000 I think his exact quotes were Pettis got played by a PED cheat.

02:00:48.000 That's what he said.

02:00:49.000 That's interesting.

02:00:50.000 But it's just speculation, right?

02:00:52.000 Is that the guy that Raphael trained with?

02:00:54.000 I don't know.

02:00:54.000 That's the one, I think.

02:00:55.000 I think they trained together.

02:00:57.000 Did he?

02:00:57.000 He told me about a guy running his mouth.

02:00:59.000 Oh, yeah?

02:00:59.000 And that he came up to Raphael and was all humble and wanted to train with him.

02:01:03.000 And then they started training.

02:01:04.000 The guy was complaining, don't kick me here, don't kick me there.

02:01:08.000 Oh, really?

02:01:08.000 Yeah, I think it's the same guy.

02:01:10.000 Hmm.

02:01:10.000 But what do I think about that?

02:01:13.000 I think the guy, if he's not top three and he's saying that, he's probably just trying to make a name for himself.

02:01:19.000 And it's pretty disrespectful to Raphael, but it's kind of complimentary to me.

02:01:24.000 Like, okay, cool.

02:01:25.000 Like, stoked, man.

02:01:26.000 You think it's that good?

02:01:27.000 All right, come on, sign up.

02:01:28.000 See what we do.

02:01:28.000 His body does not look that much different.

02:01:30.000 It doesn't.

02:01:31.000 Look, if you're juicing, dude, you're going to have traps up to your ears.

02:01:34.000 You're going to look like a freak.

02:01:36.000 But not always.

02:01:37.000 Look at Lance Armstrong.

02:01:38.000 Lance Armstrong.

02:01:39.000 But he's taking EPO. He used to take an EPO and testosterone and a bunch of other things as well.

02:01:43.000 Yeah, I don't know.

02:01:43.000 He's taking a cold cocktail.

02:01:45.000 But to be honest, I'm not that educated on this stuff.

02:01:48.000 But I'll tell you this.

02:01:49.000 If I've got him at 12,500 feet altitude doing sprints, I'm not going to have...

02:01:55.000 I'm going to make damn sure he's clean.

02:01:56.000 Because if you're taking any kind of stuff, I don't know what the hell that could do to your body. 0.82

02:02:00.000 Thicken your blood up or something like that.

02:02:02.000 Meal EPO. Yeah, absolutely.

02:02:04.000 Can you imagine that?

02:02:04.000 And then you're taking 12,000 feet?

02:02:07.000 That's like ridiculous.

02:02:07.000 Bobby Green or whoever you are, go through a workout and see what he does, and then you'll see why he's the best.

02:02:13.000 Do you think that this sport has an issue?

02:02:17.000 I mean, it seems to, there's at least a perception that there's an issue with PEDs.

02:02:22.000 Do I think it does?

02:02:23.000 I'm sure there is.

02:02:24.000 I'm sure there's an issue.

02:02:25.000 Why do you think that exists?

02:02:27.000 Do you think it exists because of improper training or because guys want to get an edge?

02:02:31.000 Because I think that, man, Joe, if you and I are trying to reach for that cup of coffee and you take something and I know you took it and I want the coffee, I'm going to take it too.

02:02:40.000 If I think it's going to give me a benefit.

02:02:42.000 Right.

02:02:42.000 It's totally understandable.

02:02:43.000 If one guy, if you don't have proper training and you feel slow and you need to take some shit to feel stronger... 0.99

02:02:50.000 You're gonna do it because you know the other guy's doing it. 0.99

02:02:52.000 You know what I mean?

02:02:54.000 What did you think about the whole testosterone replacement therapy debacle?

02:02:57.000 Which I think is a real debacle. 0.94

02:03:00.000 I mean, I think the way they handled it was just ridiculous. 0.79

02:03:02.000 They gave it to people. 0.82

02:03:03.000 They allowed it for a few years.

02:03:05.000 You had these staggering performances.

02:03:07.000 Like, Vitor is the poster boy for testosterone replacement.

02:03:11.000 You know what?

02:03:12.000 I think if it's a medical thing, and like you've been to a doctor and they say, hey dude, this is it.

02:03:16.000 I think if it's regulated to the point where it doesn't put you above an average level of testosterone, then I don't see how it should be a problem.

02:03:25.000 Do you?

02:03:26.000 It benefits you.

02:03:27.000 It gives you quicker recovery, allows you to train harder.

02:03:30.000 Right, but I'm saying as long as it's not above an average level.

02:03:33.000 So if you're deficient, let's say your total testosterone is 100, and the doctors are monitoring it thoroughly, and you show up every week and they're doing a test, and they can show, like, hey, this is his thing, and it's 300. That's it.

02:03:46.000 Then I don't know if that would be...

02:03:48.000 I'm not condoning drugs, but I'm just saying maybe that would be an acceptable way to let it in.

02:03:53.000 I agree with you in a perfect world.

02:03:55.000 Yeah.

02:03:55.000 But I think there's too many variables.

02:03:57.000 If your testosterone is low, you probably shouldn't be a fighter.

02:03:59.000 Yes.

02:04:01.000 And also, it's probably...

02:04:03.000 It's indicative of one of two things.

02:04:05.000 Pituitary gland damage or gonad damage.

02:04:09.000 Or you took steroids.

02:04:11.000 And now you're not...

02:04:12.000 Yeah, and your body shut down, and that's what a lot of guys were doing.

02:04:16.000 They were taking it, and then when you add in exogenous, is that how you say it?

02:04:21.000 I guess.

02:04:23.000 Testosterone, your body goes, all right, we got plenty of this, and it stops its natural production, and so then you would do that, and then go get tested, and then the doctor would say, oh, your natural production is way down.

02:04:34.000 Way down, exactly.

02:04:34.000 You obviously need testosterone.

02:04:36.000 Yeah.

02:04:37.000 And, um, that's what a lot of guys were getting away with.

02:04:40.000 With good training, you don't need it.

02:04:42.000 With a great diet.

02:04:43.000 Like, Raphael, like, the guy saying that, I don't know who he is, but...

02:04:48.000 You have to understand there's a reason he's the champion, and it starts with his mind and his discipline and his dedication to the fighting.

02:04:55.000 He came here with nothing, dude.

02:04:57.000 Like, his diet is impeccable.

02:05:00.000 His training is impeccable.

02:05:02.000 I mean, he drives two hours to train with me, dude.

02:05:04.000 That's dedication.

02:05:05.000 Like, do all the PEDs in the world you want.

02:05:07.000 If you're not willing to make those sacrifices to beat him, like the same sacrifices that he makes, you're not going to beat him.

02:05:13.000 So when he goes down to train with you, how many days a week does he do this?

02:05:16.000 Three to four days.

02:05:17.000 Three to four days, depending upon how he's looking.

02:05:20.000 And sometimes I'll go down there, yeah, exactly.

02:05:21.000 Or how he feels, you know, sparring's really hard, or he's got something the next day, you know, then we'll take it off.

02:05:26.000 But, yeah, I really think it's kind of disrespectful to him, dude.

02:05:30.000 Like, he put in so much work.

02:05:31.000 How many, five fights in the last year?

02:05:33.000 Something like that.

02:05:34.000 But six training camps.

02:05:36.000 Well, you look at the guys he's beaten, too.

02:05:37.000 He's beaten some insanely high-level guys.

02:05:40.000 Exactly.

02:05:41.000 And towards the end, we're not going to lie, it started to take its toll on him.

02:05:43.000 Look, he got a partial tear of the MCL. He was getting worn down.

02:05:46.000 And now he really needed a break.

02:05:49.000 The other thing is the guy walks around with like 180, probably about 190, 193. Jesus Christ.

02:05:55.000 Yeah.

02:05:55.000 You've seen him at the weight cuts.

02:05:56.000 You see how emaciated he is?

02:05:58.000 Yeah.

02:05:58.000 The guy's fighting in an emaciated state.

02:06:00.000 He's probably fighting about 172, maybe 173 on fight night.

02:06:05.000 So imagine you take a guy who's 190 and strip off 20 pounds.

02:06:08.000 Of course he's going to look ripped and lean.

02:06:10.000 Like, we all look like that underneath, you know?

02:06:12.000 Right.

02:06:12.000 So these accusations are kind of like, they're very disrespectful, I think.

02:06:17.000 But people think it because of his stamina, is that it?

02:06:20.000 Well, his stamina, for sure. 0.92

02:06:22.000 He's just a monster.

02:06:23.000 Whenever you see someone who excels at a very high level, people go, hmm, how's he doing that? 0.91

02:06:28.000 I do that, too.

02:06:29.000 I question some guys, too.

02:06:31.000 Like, there's some guys in the UFC I question.

02:06:33.000 And it's because their bodies have changed a lot over time.

02:06:36.000 You know what I mean?

02:06:37.000 Over the time.

02:06:39.000 And there's some guys, you look at it and go, okay, what?

02:06:41.000 Like, when Hector Lombard tested positive, nobody went, what?

02:06:45.000 What?

02:06:45.000 No way!

02:06:46.000 That doesn't even make sense.

02:06:48.000 Hector Lumber had muscles that weren't even in books. 0.99

02:06:51.000 You go like medical books and they go, what the fuck is that? 0.99

02:06:54.000 What is that? 0.99

02:06:54.000 That's not even a human muscle. 0.99

02:06:56.000 I don't even understand what drug he would need to take to have, like Rafael, I don't even know what drug he would need to take to have great stamina.

02:07:04.000 That's easily trainable.

02:07:05.000 The problem is all these guys are doing such improper training that they're making me look even better.

02:07:11.000 You know what I mean?

02:07:12.000 So if you took a guy that had poor stamina, like, okay, let's take BJ Penn, for example.

02:07:18.000 Did you think BJ was on PEDs when he fought Diego Sanchez?

02:07:21.000 No.

02:07:22.000 Why?

02:07:22.000 Well, I watched his training.

02:07:24.000 Well, first of all, BJ's one of those guys.

02:07:25.000 There's only a few guys, yeah. 0.98

02:07:27.000 He wouldn't even take a fucking IV for the Frankie Edgar fight. 0.98

02:07:30.000 He wouldn't even rehydrate with an IV, which I think is crazy. 0.98

02:07:33.000 But BJ's one of those guys where I don't think he's done anything ever.

02:07:36.000 I don't either.

02:07:37.000 I don't think he would either.

02:07:38.000 Why do people think Rafael has?

02:07:39.000 Because he's Brazilian?

02:07:41.000 Yeah, that's one reason.

02:07:42.000 And he's not like the most handsome dude in the world.

02:07:44.000 Sorry, Rafael.

02:07:45.000 What are you trying to say?

02:07:46.000 No, but you know what I mean?

02:07:47.000 He's not going to be on the cover of a Wheaties box.

02:07:49.000 Like, yeah, he's from Brazil.

02:07:51.000 The dude comes here to fight.

02:07:52.000 I mean, he's a fighter, dude.

02:07:54.000 That's how fighters look.

02:07:55.000 Sorry, you know.

02:07:56.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:07:57.000 Well, I mean, he's obviously done, even if he had done any sort of PED, there's no fucking PED in the world that makes you that good. 0.93

02:08:06.000 That's hard work. 0.96

02:08:07.000 Yeah.

02:08:08.000 Hard work and dedication, 100%.

02:08:09.000 Not only that, but they did blood and urine testing for the fight.

02:08:13.000 Mm-hmm.

02:08:14.000 You know what I mean?

02:08:15.000 Like, I think it was three weeks out from the fight.

02:08:17.000 Right, right.

02:08:18.000 And then they did urine testing after.

02:08:20.000 I mean, they can detect some stuff from what I understand.

02:08:22.000 Like, I'm not like a master of Mexican supplements, but I know a little bit.

02:08:27.000 And so, yeah, I just keep bringing the compliments, man.

02:08:31.000 I like it. 1.00

02:08:32.000 Fuck, dude. 0.99

02:08:33.000 So if you took a guy, like a guy that was known for not having the best stamina in the world, a guy who fades, how much time would you need to get him to a point where he had a fight? 1.00

02:08:43.000 Like, say if he's fighting a title fight.

02:08:45.000 Like, let's take a guy who's known...

02:08:47.000 Here's a good example.

02:08:48.000 Tyron Woodley is one of the best 170-pound fighters in the world.

02:08:51.000 Carries a lot of muscle mass. 0.98

02:08:53.000 You look at Tyron, he's fucking huge. 0.97

02:08:56.000 I mean, it's amazing that guy makes 170. That guy is yoked as fuck. 1.00

02:09:00.000 When he gets in the cage, I don't know how much he weighs, but it ain't 170. Right. 1.00

02:09:04.000 And he's known for being very fast and very strong in the first round, but slows down a little bit in the second round.

02:09:10.000 Right.

02:09:11.000 How much time would you need with a guy like that?

02:09:13.000 And what would your advice be to a big, muscular guy like that?

02:09:16.000 Three weeks.

02:09:17.000 Probably about three weeks, I think.

02:09:18.000 That's it?

02:09:18.000 Yeah.

02:09:19.000 I'd probably get him going in three weeks.

02:09:21.000 Three weeks?

02:09:21.000 Yeah, three weeks.

02:09:22.000 How come you only need that much time?

02:09:24.000 I'm just kind of trying to base that off of like past experiences.

02:09:28.000 I'd say about three weeks to get him up ready for about five rounds.

02:09:33.000 He might struggle a little in the fifth round, but you give me a full training camp with a guy, he'll do like seven or eight rounds hard, no problem.

02:09:40.000 What is a full training camp for you, ideally?

02:09:43.000 Roughly eight weeks.

02:09:45.000 So if you had a guy and you wanted to get a guy to the best possible shape for five rounds, he'd say he's going to be fighting Robbie Lawler for the title. 0.99

02:09:53.000 He's got to go five rounds through fucking hell. 0.99

02:09:56.000 Uh-huh. 1.00

02:09:58.000 How long would it take?

02:09:59.000 Depends who it is.

02:10:00.000 And again, what he's had in the past.

02:10:02.000 So I'd have to assess him first.

02:10:04.000 So if you give me a guy who's got good cardio and his stamina has been...

02:10:08.000 He's known for stamina or he's not known for stamina?

02:10:11.000 He's not known for stamina.

02:10:13.000 I could have him ready for probably like four or five weeks.

02:10:15.000 And would you take a guy like that who's got a lot of extra muscle?

02:10:19.000 I'm sorry to interrupt, but again though, he would have to prioritize that in his training.

02:10:24.000 So something else might have to be substituted because training energy systems is very taxing.

02:10:30.000 Let's say we're doing sprints or we're doing something to train the energy systems one day, then he might have to shorten his wrestling.

02:10:36.000 He'd have to be willing to make a sacrifice to shorten his wrestling.

02:10:39.000 You know what I mean?

02:10:40.000 Really?

02:10:40.000 Yeah.

02:10:41.000 You've got to find an even trade-off where you don't compromise all the aspects of what the athlete needs.

02:10:50.000 So the skill work almost takes second place.

02:10:55.000 If the guy's conditioning is bad, you have to look at the athlete as a whole.

02:10:59.000 So if the guy sucks at wrestling, but he's got great stamina, then you need to devote more time to the wrestling.

02:11:03.000 Right.

02:11:04.000 Or same with striking.

02:11:05.000 If the striking sucks and he's good at jiu-jitsu and he's good at wrestling, he's got no stamina, then you've got to devote a little more time to the stamina and the striking to try to build that up.

02:11:15.000 Again, with a skill, there's only so much you can do in one training camp.

02:11:19.000 That's more like a year-long process.

02:11:21.000 Now, do you hook your guys up with nutritionists if they don't have one?

02:11:25.000 Do you have someone that you use?

02:11:26.000 No, you know what?

02:11:27.000 Usually they have their own guys.

02:11:28.000 But if they ask me, then I'll help them.

02:11:30.000 You know what I mean?

02:11:31.000 But, you know, I'm not a licensed nutritionist or anything like that.

02:11:34.000 But I know Raphael's using George Lockhart, who's getting kind of popular, and he's pretty happy with him.

02:11:40.000 And I think Ricardo's using him, too.

02:11:43.000 A lot of these guys, they get their meals prepped way in advance.

02:11:45.000 They get them in, like, little tubware boxes, and they keep them in their fridge, and then they heat them up before each meal.

02:11:50.000 Sun Grill or something like that.

02:11:53.000 They deliver to your house.

02:11:54.000 Oh, really?

02:11:55.000 Yeah, there's one Sun Foods or something like that.

02:11:57.000 Oh, yeah?

02:11:57.000 Yeah, and they can deliver, like...

02:11:58.000 And it's all athlete?

02:12:00.000 Prepared stuff.

02:12:00.000 Yeah, they can do like they can you can tell what you want like a menu or something like that I think I think it's called Sun Foods or something because I would think that the more things you could take out of the athletes mind that they have to think about the more resources they have yeah, right?

02:12:13.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:12:14.000 Yeah When they developed this sort of style of training, was this met with skepticism?

02:12:26.000 Absolutely.

02:12:27.000 It still is.

02:12:28.000 Still is.

02:12:28.000 Yeah, there's going to be a lot of haters on the comments on YouTube, I promise.

02:12:31.000 No, I'm sure.

02:12:32.000 You can't squat.

02:12:33.000 What do you mean you can't do a deadlift?

02:12:35.000 You know what I mean?

02:12:35.000 Right.

02:12:36.000 Unless you can...

02:12:38.000 Show us the proof in what you're saying.

02:12:41.000 We already know the proof is out there.

02:12:43.000 You just have to read the fine text of the nervous system training, the records that they have on the nervous system training.

02:12:51.000 I think my theory is that this whole thing with the weightlifting came about because they needed a universal...

02:12:59.000 You know what I mean?

02:13:00.000 Like, they needed to be able to put a number on improvement.

02:13:03.000 And so they would use weights because it's universal.

02:13:06.000 So that can kind of show, regardless of whether or not it's good for sports, it's just showing an improvement in strength.

02:13:13.000 You know what I mean?

02:13:14.000 That's before they have all the fancy monitors.

02:13:17.000 Athletes in the U.S. now are gravitating farther and farther away from weightlifting.

02:13:20.000 A lot of the football guys, they do it because they have to.

02:13:24.000 They don't like to do it.

02:13:24.000 They don't like the way it makes them feel.

02:13:26.000 The boxers hate it.

02:13:27.000 I haven't met a boxer yet that has told me, yeah, I want to hit the weights.

02:13:31.000 They don't like it because it makes them too stiff and it makes them too slow. 0.73

02:13:34.000 Marquez was lifting a lot of weights for that Pacquiao fight when they showed that 24-7 or whatever the fuck HBO calls it. 0.85

02:13:41.000 Is that what it is, 24-7?

02:13:42.000 When they showed his routine.

02:13:43.000 I mean, a lot of it was like weightlifting.

02:13:46.000 Dumbbells, heavy dumbbells.

02:13:48.000 Yeah.

02:13:48.000 Pretty crazy, huh?

02:13:50.000 Yeah.

02:13:50.000 But he wasn't clean for that.

02:13:51.000 I mean, it's...

02:13:53.000 Just wasn't?

02:13:53.000 No.

02:13:55.000 Like, I showed up looking like a 24-year-old beach model, man, you know what I mean? 0.95

02:13:59.000 Like, 41 Mexican, 41 Mexican, you know, it's like been through wars, like, you know, I mean, it's like, you guys showed up, that was ridiculous, I mean. 1.00

02:14:07.000 Yeah, and it might be, that might have been a fight where Pacquiao was clean for the first time.

02:14:12.000 Yeah.

02:14:13.000 Well, there was always a lot of speculation about him as well.

02:14:16.000 And then, you know, he found Jesus in a very deep and meaningful way for a while.

02:14:21.000 And his body changed a little bit.

02:14:23.000 His body changed quite a lot.

02:14:26.000 Eight divisions.

02:14:28.000 Eight world titles.

02:14:29.000 Eight different way divisions.

02:14:30.000 That's pretty crazy.

02:14:31.000 And kept his knockout power all the way up to the top.

02:14:34.000 Just about.

02:14:34.000 Well, actually, he hasn't knocked anyone out though in the last, what, five years or something like that?

02:14:39.000 You've got to be thinking about who he's fighting though.

02:14:41.000 He's fighting world-class competition.

02:14:44.000 Very difficult to hit.

02:14:46.000 I mean, the last big KO was like, what, Ricky Hatton?

02:14:49.000 Yeah. 0.95

02:14:50.000 But he fucked up Chris Algieri. 0.98

02:14:52.000 I mean, he knocked him down. 0.98

02:14:53.000 Yeah, that was pretty nice, right?

02:14:55.000 He looked great in that fight.

02:14:56.000 Chris Algieri, though, he's got some balance issues in his feet, I can tell.

02:15:01.000 Does he?

02:15:01.000 Absolutely.

02:15:02.000 You know, you can tell, Joe, by looking at a guy's calves.

02:15:05.000 So the gastrocs, the two calf muscles on the side of the calf right there, if they're really underdeveloped, the guy's chances are the guy's got poor balance.

02:15:13.000 Those two are fast twitch muscles that control your balance.

02:15:17.000 So like Pacquiao's footwork is freaking amazing, right?

02:15:21.000 You see the size of his calves?

02:15:22.000 They're watermelons.

02:15:23.000 Exactly.

02:15:24.000 So that plays a crucial role in lateral movement and footwork.

02:15:29.000 So you take a guy, you look at, Juan Marquez doesn't have great footwork.

02:15:33.000 Right.

02:15:33.000 Have you seen his calves?

02:15:34.000 They're like noodles.

02:15:36.000 What about John Jones?

02:15:37.000 John Jones is another guy.

02:15:38.000 Very skinny calves.

02:15:39.000 He doesn't have very good footwork.

02:15:40.000 He's quick.

02:15:41.000 His upper body's quick and he's got quick leg kicks, but he doesn't have the greatest footwork, I don't think.

02:15:46.000 Really?

02:15:47.000 Yeah, I don't think so.

02:15:48.000 Raphael has pretty good footwork now.

02:15:50.000 He's in and out real quick, you know what I mean?

02:15:52.000 You see that in the Henderson fight, for sure.

02:15:54.000 For sure.

02:15:55.000 Yeah.

02:15:56.000 And, uh, who else?

02:15:57.000 Yeah, to be honest, I haven't been following the UFC that much lately.

02:16:00.000 Your work with Dos Anjos is what got me excited about talking to you.

02:16:04.000 Have a lot of fighters started contacting you now?

02:16:06.000 Yeah, I've been contacted by a lot of guys.

02:16:09.000 You know, I'm very, like, uh...

02:16:10.000 I'm very kind of choosy about who I train.

02:16:14.000 Like, I... It's only so many hours in the day, right?

02:16:16.000 Not only that, but there's different personalities, man.

02:16:19.000 It's exhausting.

02:16:20.000 Right.

02:16:21.000 Guys who don't want to listen or they don't want to push hard enough.

02:16:24.000 I don't have time for that anymore.

02:16:25.000 I'm done with that.

02:16:26.000 Like, I did that in the beginning. 1.00

02:16:27.000 I ate a lot of shit and had to deal with it. 0.99

02:16:29.000 Now, it's like, dude, if I sense right off the bat you're not serious, I'm just, we're done. 1.00

02:16:34.000 And that's how the Marinovich has treated BJ in this camp with Frankie Edgar?

02:16:39.000 Yeah, but I think the Marinovich really cared about BJ, dude.

02:16:43.000 It's a funny thing when you're working with a guy that close.

02:16:46.000 You really get attached to them.

02:16:47.000 You really care about their well-being.

02:16:49.000 And I think they took it as kind of like a...

02:16:52.000 Like an insult and almost like a stab in the back when he questioned their intelligence as far as training goes.

02:17:03.000 Their programming, the way they program the training camp.

02:17:06.000 I think they were hurt by that, you know.

02:17:09.000 To this day, I mean, Gary and Marv, you know, if you talk to him, they're still saying, you know, I just can't figure out why he had it.

02:17:17.000 He knew how he felt after the training.

02:17:20.000 Why would you get rid of it?

02:17:22.000 Why would you...

02:17:23.000 It's hard.

02:17:24.000 You know, it's also when you're that good and you have so many yes men around you.

02:17:28.000 That's the problem.

02:17:29.000 It's very hard.

02:17:30.000 That's the biggest problem, I think, was staying in Hawaii, man.

02:17:33.000 All the Hawaiians are going to hate me now.

02:17:35.000 But staying in Hawaii... 0.97

02:17:36.000 The reason why you stay in Hawaii is because Hawaii is fucking awesome. 0.99

02:17:39.000 Yeah, it's fucking great. 0.99

02:17:40.000 Don't get me wrong. 0.94

02:17:41.000 But the same training partners over and over, that's just...

02:17:45.000 Monotony kills athletes. 1.00

02:17:47.000 It does, and also being the baddest motherfucker in the room. 1.00

02:17:50.000 You have to be, yeah. 0.99

02:17:51.000 You got to be challenged.

02:17:52.000 Even here at the RUCA training, when they're at the RUCA training camp for the Diego Sanchez, we had amazing guys in there.

02:17:57.000 I was in there training with them every day.

02:18:01.000 Benson Henderson was in there.

02:18:03.000 Ifran Escudero, who just won the Ultimate Fighter that year.

02:18:07.000 A lot of other guys, Division 1 wrestlers, BJ just tore through everybody like they were nothing.

02:18:12.000 I didn't see one person get the better of him.

02:18:14.000 Wow.

02:18:15.000 Imagine a cage filled with like 15 of these intense like hardcore lightweights and BJ's just walking through all of them.

02:18:21.000 His timing was so precise.

02:18:22.000 The elastic energy in his muscles, the elastic strength that he had, his explosive power was just remarkable.

02:18:28.000 His takedown defense when he was at his very best was absolutely retarded too. 1.00

02:18:32.000 Yeah. 0.76

02:18:32.000 He'd be able to hop around on one leg. 0.76

02:18:34.000 I mean, his flexibility is ridiculous. 0.82

02:18:37.000 I tried to take him down many times. 0.95

02:18:39.000 To no avail.

02:18:40.000 What kind of flexibility did that guy have? 0.91

02:18:43.000 Ridiculous, dynamic flexibility. 0.81

02:18:45.000 He'd do a lot of stuff with rubber straps and stuff, pulling on them and resisting and stretching. 0.66

02:18:51.000 You know, at this camp, he was doing all the same stuff that basically that I'm doing, that I do with my guys, like the dynamic stretching.

02:18:58.000 A lot of the exercises on the stability ball and workouts in the pool, like stuff they use for rehabilitation, but you can progress that and use it for performance as well.

02:19:08.000 So if it's good for rehabilitation, you know, you take it to another level, it's got to be good for performance.

02:19:13.000 What is your education background when it comes to this stuff?

02:19:17.000 I went to continuation school in high school.

02:19:19.000 I got obsessed with weird things.

02:19:21.000 That's about it.

02:19:22.000 What's continuation school?

02:19:23.000 You know when you get kicked out of high school.

02:19:24.000 Oh, really?

02:19:26.000 You gotta go to continuation school.

02:19:28.000 I've never heard of that before.

02:19:29.000 Yeah.

02:19:30.000 I have an informal background, training background.

02:19:34.000 You know, it's funny.

02:19:35.000 Marv did too.

02:19:37.000 Marv majored in fine arts from USC. Really?

02:19:41.000 Yeah.

02:19:41.000 And that was my major in junior college, was fine arts and psychology.

02:19:45.000 So everything you learned, you sort of learned along the way from reading and studies and data.

02:19:52.000 Rehabilitating my own body after the car accident.

02:19:54.000 That was big.

02:19:55.000 I went to supposedly the best physical therapist in the area, and six months later, I've got a huge bill and no results.

02:20:02.000 So I just took it into my own hands, started researching it, finding out what to do, and then within a month or two, I'm already back at work feeling great.

02:20:11.000 And how long have you been training fighters now?

02:20:13.000 How many years?

02:20:14.000 Fighters?

02:20:14.000 You know, like, before I started training the fighters and strictly doing conditioning, you know, I was also working with, like, football athletes and soccer.

02:20:21.000 I've got a ton of college athletes, you know, I don't think I can talk about them because of NCAA rules or whatever.

02:20:26.000 You can't use them for reference.

02:20:28.000 Promotion.

02:20:29.000 Exactly.

02:20:29.000 But, um, some pretty high-level ones.

02:20:32.000 A lot of high school athletes.

02:20:33.000 But prior to that, I had a jiu-jitsu academy also.

02:20:37.000 And, um...

02:20:38.000 So I've always been in the mix with the Jiu Jitsu scene and MMA scene and stuff like that.

02:20:44.000 So now I've just had so much more success with the conditioning that I've just gone that direction.

02:20:50.000 Well, one of the things I like about this conversation is there really is no straight consensus about what's the right way to train athletes and fighters, and especially fighters.

02:21:00.000 I think when it comes to strength and conditioning, fighters, I think, is probably the most varied.

02:21:08.000 I mean, I think the NFL kind of has an idea of how to train football players.

02:21:13.000 NBA players train in a very similar fashion, but with fighters, man, it's across...

02:21:17.000 I mean, there's... 0.99

02:21:18.000 You saw that Cain Velasquez is the baddest motherfucker on the planet. 0.99

02:21:22.000 And you saw what he's going through. 0.99

02:21:24.000 Want to see his leg extensions?

02:21:26.000 No.

02:21:26.000 Yeah, you do.

02:21:27.000 Pull up Cain Velasquez leg extensions with 300 pounds.

02:21:30.000 I'm just wondering how good this guy could be with good training.

02:21:33.000 Do you know what I mean?

02:21:34.000 Well, he's got great wrestling training and great kickboxing training.

02:21:37.000 Great conditioning, let me say that.

02:21:39.000 I'm just wondering how good he can be with that. 1.00

02:21:41.000 His fucking conditioning is insane. 0.99

02:21:44.000 His stamina is insane, but his speed and his coordination, I don't know. 1.00

02:21:48.000 Maybe it could be even at another level.

02:21:49.000 Who knows?

02:21:50.000 Wow.

02:21:51.000 You know what I mean?

02:21:52.000 Let's put it this way, Joe.

02:21:54.000 Look at this.

02:21:58.000 This is 300 pounds on the leg extension machine.

02:22:06.000 What do you think about this?

02:22:07.000 It's nice.

02:22:10.000 That's going to help.

02:22:11.000 I don't know what that's going to help.

02:22:12.000 It's going to build up his quads, I guess?

02:22:15.000 I don't know.

02:22:16.000 What part?

02:22:17.000 Leg extensions?

02:22:17.000 One muscle in the quad.

02:22:18.000 I don't know.

02:22:19.000 This is not going to help?

02:22:20.000 Like throw leg kicks or anything?

02:22:22.000 No. 1.00

02:22:23.000 Is this all caveman shit you're looking at? 1.00

02:22:24.000 This is not even caveman. 0.99

02:22:26.000 This is like Nautilus, like Jack LaLanne type stuff.

02:22:29.000 I used to work at a place that I used to teach people how to do that.

02:22:32.000 Did you?

02:22:33.000 Yeah, when I was like 19. I worked at a place called the Boston Athletic Club in South Boston.

02:22:38.000 Oh, right.

02:22:38.000 I used to teach people how to lift weights.

02:22:40.000 Yeah.

02:22:41.000 So when I see that, I just wonder how much better the guy can be, you know?

02:22:44.000 Yeah.

02:22:44.000 With good training.

02:22:45.000 I mean, I know what works.

02:22:46.000 I've been around this stuff for 15, 20 years, you know, strength and conditioning and seeing what works.

02:22:51.000 And it just...

02:22:53.000 I know it works.

02:22:54.000 Like, Marv, too.

02:22:55.000 Him and his brother combined, 70 years of experience.

02:22:58.000 Maybe more.

02:22:59.000 Maybe it's 80 now.

02:23:01.000 They've seen everything.

02:23:02.000 Marv was one of the guys responsible for designing the combine, the football combine, you know?

02:23:07.000 Right.

02:23:07.000 About 40 years ago.

02:23:09.000 Amazing.

02:23:09.000 Yeah, so he's seen everything.

02:23:11.000 To argue with him about it would be just ridiculous. 0.98

02:23:14.000 Like, you're way out of your league, you know? 0.97

02:23:16.000 It's like talking to Helio Gracie about Jiu-Jitsu.

02:23:18.000 Right.

02:23:18.000 There's nothing you're gonna bring to the table that he hasn't seen.

02:23:21.000 Right.

02:23:22.000 Despite all the monstrous stories that you hear on ESPN, he was one of the worst sports fathers.

02:23:28.000 It's media, dude. 1.00

02:23:29.000 It's bullshit. 1.00

02:23:30.000 He's actually one of the most generous fucking guys. 1.00

02:23:33.000 Out of trainers that I've met, he's one of the most generous and was one of the most transparent guys that I've ever met. 0.99

02:23:40.000 Honest guy.

02:23:41.000 That's awesome.

02:23:42.000 All about the product.

02:23:43.000 The problem with the ESPN documentary was that his son went off the rails.

02:23:49.000 And when the son goes off the rails, everybody looks for someone to blame.

02:23:52.000 That he was too strict, didn't give his son sugar.

02:23:55.000 He didn't even let his son eat meat, right?

02:23:57.000 I think he did.

02:23:58.000 I don't know about that.

02:23:59.000 There was something in the documentary they were saying.

02:24:01.000 They didn't let him have wheat gluten, I think.

02:24:03.000 Really?

02:24:04.000 Yeah.

02:24:04.000 Even back then?

02:24:05.000 I think they were saying meat.

02:24:07.000 I saw it really recently.

02:24:08.000 Maybe it was certain types of meat.

02:24:10.000 Yeah, when I knew I was going to talk to you, I think that's when I watched it. 0.97

02:24:13.000 But it's fascinating to see a guy with that much knowledge take his son and turn him into this fucking super freak athlete. 0.77

02:24:22.000 I mean, in certain ways, it was vindicated. 0.99

02:24:27.000 His techniques, his strategies, I mean, look how good his goddamn son was until he got crazy with the drugs and the partying and all that stuff. 0.99

02:24:34.000 Right. 0.99

02:24:34.000 The idea was that the discipline was too much, then he couldn't take it anymore, and then he had to start boozing and doing drugs. 0.99

02:24:41.000 You know, you can blame it on whatever you want.

02:24:44.000 Nobody put the stuff in his mouth more, you know what I mean?

02:24:46.000 Right.

02:24:47.000 It's a good point.

02:24:47.000 And you could get ten different personalities.

02:24:50.000 I mean, you know you have a son.

02:24:51.000 If you have more kids, I have three, they come out of the box completely different.

02:24:57.000 Yeah, that's what I'm worried about, man.

02:24:58.000 I love my son so much, I don't know if I want anything different.

02:25:02.000 Oh, believe me, you'll love the other.

02:25:04.000 My two youngest are completely different.

02:25:07.000 I love them equally.

02:25:08.000 They're totally different.

02:25:09.000 But they have their own little thing going on.

02:25:11.000 But the point being that...

02:25:14.000 Different children, different humans will react differently to different forms of diversity that they face.

02:25:20.000 There's only so much you could do as a parent.

02:25:22.000 You know, you can't really totally protect them and shield them.

02:25:25.000 And it seemed like his son has come back from all that stuff and he's okay now, right?

02:25:30.000 Yeah.

02:25:31.000 Yeah, he's an artist. 0.96

02:25:32.000 His art's pretty bitchin' too. 0.94

02:25:34.000 I guess he's living up in Oregon. 0.89

02:25:35.000 I don't really know Todd very well.

02:25:37.000 I've actually never even met Todd.

02:25:39.000 But yeah, I guess he's living up in Oregon.

02:25:41.000 He's got some killer art, man. 0.99

02:25:43.000 And there's also the reality that when you push your son or your daughter or anyone, any human being, people have a resistance to some of that shit. 0.99

02:25:52.000 And they don't want to do what you want them to do. 0.98

02:25:54.000 And they develop a distaste for something, even something that they're really, really talented at.

02:25:59.000 Yeah.

02:26:00.000 That's possible as well.

02:26:01.000 Yeah.

02:26:02.000 Well, you know what the funny thing is?

02:26:03.000 Did you ever read that story about his son running like a 10K or something when he was like four years old?

02:26:10.000 No.

02:26:11.000 Did he really?

02:26:11.000 He was running like an eight minute mile or something when he was four years old.

02:26:14.000 Really?

02:26:14.000 Yeah.

02:26:15.000 And I asked Marv about that one day.

02:26:16.000 I said, Marv, what the hell is that?

02:26:18.000 Like, you know, like an eight minute mile.

02:26:20.000 He's like, so yeah, you know what I can't figure out, Nick, is why everybody thinks I made him do it.

02:26:25.000 Oh.

02:26:26.000 I didn't make him do it.

02:26:27.000 That's what he said.

02:26:27.000 He wanted to do it.

02:26:28.000 Yeah.

02:26:29.000 So he had that drive and that intensity in him, you know what I mean?

02:26:34.000 It's kind of like shed some light on some things right there.

02:26:36.000 Well, hey man, you know, whenever someone comes out in a weird way, there's a lot of people trying to point blame in a lot of different areas, whether it's the friends or the family or the...

02:26:47.000 It seemed like his college coaches had a real issue with him as well, right?

02:26:51.000 Yeah.

02:26:51.000 They were trying to put him in a box.

02:26:52.000 Yeah.

02:26:55.000 Yeah, and then he kind of took over and it worked. 0.66

02:26:58.000 Yeah, took over and made the coach look pretty foolish, and they didn't like that either. 0.85

02:27:03.000 Right. 0.69

02:27:04.000 What is the name of that documentary, if anybody wants to watch it?

02:27:06.000 Do you remember?

02:27:06.000 Was it like 30 on 30 or something?

02:27:10.000 Or the Marinovich Project, wasn't that it?

02:27:12.000 I think that was it.

02:27:13.000 Yeah, and they talk about Mars in the beginning, talking about he's an undefeated wrestler, undefeated boxer.

02:27:18.000 That's great, man.

02:27:19.000 A lot of people don't know that about him.

02:27:21.000 He was a football player too, you know?

02:27:23.000 Mm-hmm.

02:27:24.000 But he was also an undefeated boxer and wrestler through the army in college.

02:27:28.000 And his fascination with training athletes was more powerful than his fascination with competing?

02:27:34.000 Well, he was so, I guess, Marv was so into weightlifting and he felt it destroyed his athleticism.

02:27:40.000 Once he went to the Raiders and he was competing with the guys in the weight room, he was squatting a thousand pounds.

02:27:46.000 And he said his athleticism had never been worse when he was doing that.

02:27:51.000 Wow.

02:27:51.000 And that just destroyed his professional career.

02:27:53.000 That's interesting.

02:27:54.000 Yeah.

02:27:55.000 Wow.

02:27:55.000 And that was in the 60s, right?

02:27:58.000 Right.

02:27:58.000 It's got to be in the 60s.

02:27:59.000 So you figure he had that awakening 50 years ago.

02:28:03.000 Wow.

02:28:04.000 He's been developing this stuff for years.

02:28:07.000 Nick, thank you very much for your time, man.

02:28:09.000 Thanks, Joe.

02:28:09.000 I really appreciate it.

02:28:09.000 This was a great conversation.

02:28:11.000 I really, really, really enjoyed it.

02:28:12.000 And anybody who wants to check out your gym, what is the name of it and where is it at?

02:28:18.000 Speed of Sport.

02:28:19.000 You can go to speedofsport.com.

02:28:22.000 Speedofsport.com.

02:28:24.000 And it is located in...

02:28:25.000 Torrance, California.

02:28:27.000 In Torrance.

02:28:27.000 And Speed of Sport on Twitter...

02:28:30.000 Yeah.

02:28:30.000 That's your handle.

02:28:31.000 Yeah, that's it.

02:28:32.000 All right.

02:28:32.000 Thanks, brother.

02:28:33.000 Very enjoyable conversation.

02:28:34.000 I really appreciate it.

02:28:35.000 Thanks.

02:28:35.000 All right, friends.

02:28:36.000 We'll be back tomorrow.

02:28:37.000 See you later.

02:28:38.000 Bye.

02:28:39.000 Thanks, Joe.

02:28:40.000 Thanks, man.

02:28:41.000 That was fun.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 20, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #650 - Nick Curson

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript