The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #707 - Michael Dowd

00:00:00.000 Alright, here we go.

00:00:11.000 Boom.

00:00:11.000 There we go.

00:00:12.000 So, first of all, welcome.

00:00:15.000 Thank you.

00:00:15.000 Thanks for doing this.

00:00:16.000 Appreciate it.

00:00:17.000 Thanks for having me, John. 0.99

00:00:17.000 Your fucking documentary... 0.99

00:00:19.000 That might have been one of the craziest documentaries I've ever seen in my life. 1.00

00:00:23.000 The 7-5, if people haven't seen it.

00:00:25.000 Right. 1.00

00:00:27.000 Dude, what a fucking crazy life you lived. 1.00

00:00:30.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

00:00:31.000 Do you feel lucky to be alive?

00:00:32.000 You're embarrassed? 0.99

00:00:33.000 I'm embarrassed because I'm looking at people that are supposed to respect law enforcement and it's almost glorifying some of the crazy shit we did. 0.97

00:00:43.000 I don't think it's glorifying. 0.89

00:00:44.000 I hope not.

00:00:44.000 No, it's definitely not.

00:00:46.000 I don't think it is.

00:00:47.000 I think it's an honest portrayal of People going off the rails because they didn't have...

00:00:53.000 I mean, you had the ability to do so, you know?

00:00:57.000 I mean, that's what it was.

00:00:58.000 Debauchery, right?

00:00:58.000 I mean, it's just...

00:01:01.000 Untamed and just the ability to get away with things that no one else could.

00:01:06.000 Well, I think we're seeing today with law enforcement, with all the stuff that's going on with all these kids getting shot and all these videos that get taped of police abuse, we're seeing that for the longest time this stuff just wasn't filmed,

00:01:23.000 that there was a lot going on.

00:01:24.000 We've all witnessed, I'm sure you more than anybody, but we've all witnessed some cops that were out of control.

00:01:30.000 And I think that's just what happens when people have power, and you just kind of, they get a little crazy.

00:01:38.000 You know, when you don't have anybody checking that power, and then on top of it, in your situation, there was cocaine, and there was crime, and there was all sorts of craziness.

00:01:49.000 I mean, I learned about your documentary from Nick DiPaolo.

00:01:51.000 He was on my buddy Ari Shaffir's show, and he was raving about this documentary, and it wasn't even out yet.

00:01:57.000 You had to pre-order it on iTunes. 0.92

00:01:59.000 I fucking hate that when you want to watch something right away. 0.95

00:02:02.000 How do you think I feel when people are calling me in the middle of the night? 0.98

00:02:04.000 Where is this documentary?

00:02:05.000 I can't get it.

00:02:05.000 I'm like, let me call the people at all three media.

00:02:10.000 They don't give a fuck. 0.99

00:02:11.000 They're just like, oh, we're sleeping right now. 0.99

00:02:14.000 We're in California time.

00:02:15.000 I said, okay.

00:02:15.000 Well, they're not awake yet.

00:02:16.000 Whatever.

00:02:17.000 It's just ruinous.

00:02:18.000 Did Nick see a pre-screening or something like that?

00:02:21.000 Did he see it in the movies?

00:02:22.000 I don't know.

00:02:24.000 I hate to say this on the air, but I think he pirated it.

00:02:27.000 Oh, yeah!

00:02:27.000 How dare he?

00:02:29.000 That's illegal.

00:02:30.000 I think he did.

00:02:30.000 That's illegal.

00:02:31.000 Because he had heard about it from somebody and he couldn't get it.

00:02:34.000 Right. 0.99

00:02:35.000 And I was like kicking the ground saying, you know, who's promoting this goddamn thing? 0.99

00:02:40.000 You know, it's about my life and people asking me a lot of questions about it. 0.97

00:02:43.000 And I'm like, why don't you just go see the documentary?

00:02:45.000 Well, after like a week of trying to get it, they throw their hands in the air and they're like, we can't get it.

00:02:49.000 So I had a lot of frustration over the way it was distributed.

00:02:52.000 But I wasn't involved in it, so...

00:02:54.000 In that part.

00:02:55.000 I white-knuckled my way through that whole thing.

00:02:57.000 I didn't shut that off once.

00:02:58.000 I'm gonna tell you, you and your audience, how.

00:03:01.000 I mean, I'm a nut. 0.97

00:03:02.000 I love adrenaline shit, but I really can't sit through most things. 0.99

00:03:07.000 And when the movie was premiered the first time it was seen ever by myself as well, I sat by the door. 0.99

00:03:15.000 Thinking that, one, I'm going to be bored, or two, I'm not going to like the content in the movie and just leave the theater.

00:03:21.000 And my family and some friends were there.

00:03:23.000 You know, not everybody, but, you know, select people showed. 0.93

00:03:26.000 And I sat by the door, and like in a minute and a half, I just turned around in the seat and didn't fucking move. 0.92

00:03:32.000 And that's hard for me to do. 0.91

00:03:33.000 I mean, you'll see throughout this conversation here, I'm all over the map.

00:03:37.000 Have you always been all over the map?

00:03:39.000 Um...

00:03:40.000 You know, I think it's the Brooklyn, the expressiveness with the body.

00:03:43.000 You know, we speak more with our body than our mouth for some reason.

00:03:46.000 I don't know, maybe we're short-tongued on the English language, but just the way we, I don't know, be a cop, we always watch your back, you know, so...

00:03:55.000 There's a lot of, you know, I don't know how to explain it.

00:03:59.000 It's just, that's the way we speak. 0.92

00:04:01.000 Now, this, it's a very well done movie, but the subject matter itself, the actual story itself, the facts involved in the story are fucking completely insane. 0.72

00:04:10.000 I mean, you guys, you were involved in so much craziness. 0.75

00:04:17.000 It was out of control.

00:04:18.000 But here you are.

00:04:19.000 You're out on the street.

00:04:20.000 You're doing podcasts.

00:04:22.000 You're doing press for the movie.

00:04:25.000 It's got to feel weird for you to have gone through that.

00:04:29.000 It's different lives.

00:04:30.000 In the way I see it, I was a young boy, young man, police officer, convict, inmate.

00:04:37.000 I'm a parolee, and now I'm somebody else.

00:04:40.000 It's just weird how, you know, like a chameleon, you just change with the environment, and that's how you adapt and overcome anything, is you just have to learn how to live with the environment you're in.

00:04:48.000 And it seems like that doesn't seem the same.

00:04:52.000 First of all, you know, let's be real.

00:04:53.000 I was 23, 24 years old when most of these incidents took place, and then they carried on.

00:04:58.000 The more...

00:05:00.000 Detailed the criminality took place later on as I got closer to my 30 year number But you're talking I'm 54 today So my perspective on everything I did and my perspective on the world today is way different than it was back then Yeah, whenever I try to watch a documentary about people doing crazy shit I always imagine myself like what would I do if I was in that situation like how how would I have reacted if I was a young man and I probably would have been right there with you.

00:05:29.000 Yeah, you know, it's sad, but you know what's sad about that?

00:05:32.000 Is it's people giving the opportunity to do wrong and they can get away with it.

00:05:37.000 You have to ask yourself this question.

00:05:39.000 If I could take that 200,000 large right now, just, you know, plain out question, and never have any negative consequences happen to me. 0.99

00:05:47.000 Now, I'm not saying because you broke the moral code of policing and all that shit. 0.97

00:05:50.000 I'm just saying, just be a normal human being. 0.99

00:05:52.000 Walk up, find 200 large.

00:05:53.000 No one's going to miss it.

00:05:54.000 It's not yours. 0.78

00:05:56.000 And you're never going to have any bad karma or anything happen to you.

00:05:58.000 Would you take it?

00:06:00.000 It's a good question.

00:06:02.000 And you don't know until you're right there.

00:06:04.000 No one even knows except for one person that it's theirs.

00:06:08.000 And it depends on where you are in your life.

00:06:10.000 In your life.

00:06:10.000 You're broke.

00:06:11.000 You got kids.

00:06:11.000 You got a mortgage.

00:06:12.000 You have rent to pay.

00:06:13.000 Your car's broken down.

00:06:15.000 You got no gas money.

00:06:16.000 If you're a 55-year-old man and you have a happy family and you have a good career.

00:06:20.000 You make a phone call.

00:06:21.000 You probably do something nice and you get on the news.

00:06:24.000 Look at this.

00:06:25.000 Michael Dowd gave away $200,000 he found in a bag.

00:06:29.000 Well, I didn't know what to do with it.

00:06:31.000 Yeah, and I'm good.

00:06:32.000 My life is good.

00:06:33.000 You know, I got a house on the hills.

00:06:34.000 But when you're 22 and you're on blow.

00:06:35.000 Yeah, 24, I started popping that.

00:06:39.000 Yeah, and also, it's interesting because you're constantly around people that are making insane amounts of money, and they're doing it by breaking the law.

00:06:49.000 Yeah, let's focus a little bit here.

00:06:51.000 This is 1980s, crack epidemic, East New York.

00:06:55.000 Right.

00:06:55.000 So no action I do is justified, okay?

00:06:57.000 I did wrong, and I paid the fucking price, I hope. 0.98

00:07:01.000 Some people want me for life, some people want me dead, but you know what? 1.00

00:07:04.000 Fuck you two, alright? 1.00

00:07:05.000 I'm here, I'm out, I did my time, I served it straight up, I walked the track by myself for 12 fucking years, kissed my ass goodbye, okay? 1.00

00:07:14.000 So now I am here to talk about the stories that made the story of the 7-5 what it is. 0.99

00:07:19.000 I didn't bring this upon myself.

00:07:21.000 I mean, the actions and all that, yes.

00:07:22.000 But somebody approached me from Hollywood, wanted to do a documentary about this commission called the Marlin Commission. 1.00

00:07:28.000 I told them it's a piece of shit deal. 0.97

00:07:30.000 Do a story about the boys from the 75, and I think you'll have a good movie. 0.98

00:07:33.000 So what was the original thing they wanted to come to you about?

00:07:37.000 I was the main focus, which is a thread throughout the documentary, is that there was these hearings called the Mullen Commission, which if people know history, they can go back to the Knapp Commission when Persico, Persico, Serpico.

00:07:50.000 Persico is a guy that did time with, from the Colombo family.

00:07:54.000 So Serpico was a cop who got shot in the face in the movie Serpico.

00:07:59.000 And in fact, he actually commented on this documentary to Tila Russell, the director. 0.98

00:08:06.000 I don't know, it's 2 in the morning, because you guys out here don't know a fucking time. 0.78

00:08:09.000 It's 2 in the morning, my text message goes off, because it's 10.30 at night or 11 o'clock at night for him. 0.99

00:08:14.000 I just got a phone call from Serpico saying it's the best movie he's ever seen in his fucking life. 0.98

00:08:19.000 Wow. 0.99

00:08:19.000 You know, and I'm like, fuck Serpico, because I really don't like Serpico, to be honest with you, because he said some nasty things about me, one. 0.99

00:08:25.000 And two, he was a rat. 1.00

00:08:27.000 So, but... 0.94

00:08:28.000 You know, he says, well, Mike, he's Americana, he's history, you know, and so I got to give him his props.

00:08:34.000 I said, fine, but I really don't want to hear he liked my movie. 1.00

00:08:37.000 So, fuck him. 0.99

00:08:38.000 But he's, I'm not against him, really, but, you know, certain people keep at a distance, and he's one of them that I would choose to. 1.00

00:08:45.000 I'm going to shake his hand and say you're a good guy.

00:08:47.000 The Serpico thing, he ratted out other corrupt cops, is that what it was?

00:08:52.000 Yeah, he did the right thing.

00:08:53.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:08:55.000 So fuck him. 1.00

00:08:56.000 And no one liked him. 1.00

00:08:57.000 I mean, that's the way it is, right?

00:08:58.000 Was that movie accurate?

00:09:00.000 That Al Pacino movie?

00:09:01.000 I can't.

00:09:01.000 Look, I must have him on.

00:09:04.000 What is the word?

00:09:05.000 Is the word that it was accurate?

00:09:07.000 The word is that the shooting was not quite the way they said in the movie itself.

00:09:11.000 But he turned in his partners.

00:09:13.000 They wanted him to take the money, and he wouldn't take the money.

00:09:17.000 He was intransigent about it, and someone shot him in the face.

00:09:21.000 And I've been in the building half a dozen times in 9-0 Precinct.

00:09:24.000 They actually shot another movie there by one of the other actors I can't think of.

00:09:29.000 Well, what's interesting is your partner, when you were your partner in this film, turned you in, but he was involved in a lot of it with you, and he never wound up doing any time.

00:09:42.000 Yeah.

00:09:42.000 I mean, this story can go in many different directions here, Joe.

00:09:45.000 Yeah.

00:09:47.000 Kenny was, let's consider it a good cop.

00:09:49.000 You know, he was there for the money.

00:09:50.000 What was his last name?

00:09:52.000 Urell.

00:09:52.000 Kenny Urell.

00:09:52.000 He was there for the money.

00:09:54.000 He would make calls.

00:09:55.000 He'd lock everybody's husband up.

00:09:57.000 Like, you would have a fight with your wife in the ghetto, and this was like a daily thing, you know?

00:10:02.000 And he would go there and lock you up and take you out.

00:10:04.000 That was his gig.

00:10:05.000 He did that for years.

00:10:06.000 That was his overtime money.

00:10:08.000 And I told him, I don't really like to do those things, and we got together.

00:10:11.000 He had like a specialty?

00:10:12.000 That was a specialty.

00:10:13.000 Domestic violence?

00:10:15.000 Ironically.

00:10:17.000 Ironically.

00:10:17.000 Oh, deep in terms.

00:10:19.000 This story goes deep.

00:10:21.000 Ironically.

00:10:22.000 Okay, so I understand what you're saying.

00:10:24.000 Yeah.

00:10:25.000 Isn't that something?

00:10:27.000 It always is.

00:10:28.000 So he would arrest these guys, and how would he make money doing that?

00:10:33.000 Well, you'd get overtime.

00:10:34.000 Every arrest would land you at least eight, sometimes 16 hours of overtime, depending upon what time you made the arrest.

00:10:40.000 Oh. 0.91

00:10:40.000 So he'd be able to make the arrest and go to sleep for fucking 12 hours and make $600, $700 on someone's misfortune. 0.91

00:10:46.000 And, you know, they may have been legitimately arrested. 0.97

00:10:49.000 I'm not saying they weren't.

00:10:50.000 So how would he make money off of going to sleep?

00:10:52.000 I don't understand that.

00:10:53.000 Well, when you're waiting to book a prisoner slash potential inmate, you have to wait for hours and hours and hours.

00:11:01.000 So you can sleep on newspaper racks, boxes in a hallway, central booking.

00:11:06.000 Central booking is like a mass unit.

00:11:08.000 Really?

00:11:09.000 So you arrest a guy and then you go take a nap somewhere?

00:11:12.000 That's how it was.

00:11:14.000 Wow.

00:11:15.000 Yeah, so you would get paid to lock somebody up.

00:11:17.000 So that's why the city was against arresting drug dealers, okay?

00:11:20.000 This whole thing turns into a whole conundrum here.

00:11:23.000 Yeah.

00:11:23.000 Like that word?

00:11:24.000 Anyway, the crack epidemic caused the city to go broke in many ways because you'd have police officers arresting people for minor drug offenses that were, you know, it was crime, you know, and cops are supposed to arrest people for crime.

00:11:38.000 So what happened was it would cost so much to process an arrest That they would sort of discourage you.

00:11:43.000 And by that, they wouldn't say, don't do that.

00:11:45.000 It was never in policy.

00:11:47.000 But you would find yourself on a footpost somewhere.

00:11:49.000 Like I would get the post down in Vandalia by the weeds.

00:11:52.000 Well, there was drag racing there at night, and that was it.

00:11:55.000 So I would get eye allergies from standing in the weeds if I made arrests for drugs.

00:11:59.000 Really?

00:12:00.000 Yeah.

00:12:00.000 So that's how they would discourage you from making arrests.

00:12:03.000 And just to save money.

00:12:05.000 Well, what do bureaucracies exist for?

00:12:08.000 Profit and loss.

00:12:11.000 They don't exist for the people. 0.98

00:12:12.000 We, as police officers, are supposed to serve the people.

00:12:15.000 And then you become part of a system that's not there for them.

00:12:17.000 They're there for themselves.

00:12:18.000 So were you there before the crack epidemic and during?

00:12:21.000 I was there just before the crack epidemic started.

00:12:24.000 In fact, we didn't know what it was.

00:12:25.000 We used to toss people just because we'd get drug calls.

00:12:28.000 So you toss someone. 1.00

00:12:30.000 What the fuck is this? 0.99

00:12:31.000 We'd be throwing it out. 0.99

00:12:32.000 We didn't know what it was.

00:12:33.000 Wow. 0.99

00:12:33.000 And then one day, one of my partners brought it home, and he came back with like $500 and said, that's what that shit was last night. 0.99

00:12:39.000 I go, what is it? 0.99

00:12:40.000 He goes, it's cocaine. 0.99

00:12:41.000 I go, you've got to be fucking kidding me. 0.99

00:12:42.000 You've been throwing this out. 0.99

00:12:44.000 Wow.

00:12:44.000 And that was 84.5, slash 5. Yeah, I remember hearing about it, because I was in high school at the time, and people started talking about crack.

00:12:55.000 Like, you would hear it in the news, crack epidemic, and then this violence and crime epidemic.

00:13:00.000 Well, you heard about it because Len Bias... 0.90

00:13:03.000 That's right, yeah.

00:13:03.000 He was in Boston at the time?

00:13:04.000 Yeah.

00:13:05.000 He was the basketball player that was drafted by the Celtics, and he never played a day.

00:13:10.000 Because after he got drafted, they gave him this big signing contract and everything, he went out and partied, did some crack, had a bad heart on top of it, and killed himself.

00:13:18.000 So Ted Kennedy put these laws in place which put half the urban kids in federal prison for fucking life sentences, which now Obama's rightfully, in many cases, rightfully undoing, and that's a big political issue that we might not want to get into.

00:13:31.000 Yes, it is. 0.96

00:13:31.000 Well, it was a crazy... 0.96

00:13:33.000 One of the only things I agree with him on is that.

00:13:35.000 Ted Kennedy?

00:13:36.000 No.

00:13:36.000 Oh, Obama.

00:13:37.000 Obama.

00:13:37.000 Right.

00:13:37.000 Yeah.

00:13:38.000 Well, that's a big one. 0.98

00:13:39.000 The war on drugs is one of the most ridiculous ones. 0.99

00:13:41.000 Well, it's ridiculous. 0.94

00:13:42.000 They should just get rid of all drug laws and let people go to rehabs.

00:13:45.000 Yes.

00:13:45.000 And there'll be no money in it.

00:13:46.000 I agree.

00:13:47.000 I mean, simple.

00:13:48.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:13:49.000 Make it simple.

00:13:49.000 Well, I mean, they've known that since the organized crime epidemic of the prohibition.

00:13:54.000 Right, yeah. 1.00

00:13:54.000 It's the same shit. 1.00

00:13:55.000 That's what empowered organized crime, the ability to make shit-tons of money. 1.00

00:13:59.000 That's what's going on down in Mexico right now.

00:14:01.000 They're making money off the fact that drugs are illegal in America.

00:14:04.000 When this is all going down, for people on the outside like me, I had heard about it, but I didn't know how much of it was real.

00:14:12.000 You hear things about the news, and the news being, they blow things out of proportion.

00:14:18.000 It turned people into criminals.

00:14:19.000 And look at us.

00:14:21.000 We were good guys.

00:14:22.000 Most of us were good guys from hardworking families, cops, firemen, blue-collar people, sanitation workers, bus drivers, plumbers, electricians, and you became a cop.

00:14:31.000 You thought you were still in the same You were the ones that equated to Beirut. 0.98

00:14:40.000 It was like going to fucking Beirut. 0.98

00:14:42.000 And supervisors were just happy that you were there. 0.99

00:14:45.000 And that we can all go home today.

00:14:47.000 So you took an odd 10, 20 grand. 0.99

00:14:50.000 No one really gave a fuck. 0.95

00:14:52.000 The problem was when people start complaining and make noise, then it brings attention. 0.92

00:14:56.000 So when you're there, before this is happening, how much different was the environment that you were policing before crack and after crack?

00:15:06.000 It was like a storm. 0.99

00:15:08.000 It was like a fucking tornado came in and ripped the fucking community right apart. 0.99

00:15:11.000 Now, don't get me wrong, it was, you know, urban ghetto that survived the 60s and the turmoil and all that stuff, and you had your racial breakdowns within communities, but... 0.99

00:15:24.000 I got there in, I want to say 83, I'm old now, so I got there in 83, 84, so I was there about a year and a half, and it was getting crazy because Coke was expensive.

00:15:36.000 Coke was $50,000 a key, so it was tough for the inner city community to have it, but it was around.

00:15:44.000 And then when it dropped down to like $15,000, $20,000, $14,000 a kilo because of crack and the volume of, I guess, whoever was bringing it in, you know, there's many theories on who was helping bring it in back then.

00:15:55.000 It's just everybody can now get it.

00:15:58.000 And everybody now experienced the, you know, the Studio 54 high.

00:16:03.000 Now the kid in the inner city was experiencing it for five seconds.

00:16:07.000 Bang! 1.00

00:16:08.000 Goodbye!

00:16:09.000 Ooh, I loved it!

00:16:09.000 Now they're looking for their next hit.

00:16:11.000 And it was just...

00:16:12.000 So it just radically changed.

00:16:14.000 There was blood on the streets everywhere. 1.00

00:16:15.000 It was fucking ridiculous. 1.00

00:16:17.000 Wow. 1.00

00:16:18.000 Now, when you got- Every day.

00:16:19.000 Every day.

00:16:20.000 Every day.

00:16:20.000 You just saw gunshots, knives.

00:16:23.000 Death.

00:16:23.000 Stabbings and shootings.

00:16:24.000 Every day.

00:16:25.000 Wow.

00:16:26.000 It was exciting.

00:16:27.000 Yeah, I'm sure. 0.99

00:16:28.000 It was fucking great. 0.97

00:16:29.000 Well, that seems like part of it to me. 0.98

00:16:31.000 Like, when I was watching this, I was like, geez, it seems like, in a way, you're kind of having some fun.

00:16:37.000 Oh, I had fun every day.

00:16:38.000 I didn't want to miss work.

00:16:42.000 I believe you! 0.99

00:16:43.000 I hated fucking three-day swings. 0.99

00:16:45.000 And the cops who listen to this, a lot of cops hate me, but they sort of respect me in a way, because they understand. 0.99

00:16:49.000 Not respect for what I did.

00:16:50.000 Right.

00:16:51.000 My honesty.

00:16:51.000 I hope that's what they take from this.

00:16:53.000 Because you got a lot of cop fans and shit like that, and they respect you and the martial arts guys, you know. 0.90

00:16:57.000 Most of them are really good guys, but they get it. 0.94

00:16:59.000 It's the ones who get what I'm talking about that will appreciate this conversation you and I have. 0.92

00:17:03.000 Well, I think if you're a cop in Orange County and you're a police officer in Irvine, you're dealing with a little bullshit here and there, you gotta kinda know there's a big fucking difference between that and East New York in the 1980s during the crack epidemic. 0.95

00:17:17.000 You've got to know. 0.96

00:17:18.000 And you've got to know what's the difference between...

00:17:21.000 I mean, it seems like it wasn't just you.

00:17:24.000 It seems like your entire precinct was kind of full of shenanigans.

00:17:28.000 Well, let's put it like this, and this is to take nothing away from the...

00:17:31.000 At that time, let's say 90% were legit.

00:17:35.000 Guys going to work with their lunch pail and going home and waiting for the next paycheck.

00:17:40.000 I mean, I used to forget my paychecks because I was making so much money.

00:17:43.000 That's the truth.

00:17:43.000 And that caught me in trouble, by the way.

00:17:45.000 I started this whole investigation on me.

00:17:46.000 Because you forgot your paychecks.

00:17:48.000 I kept forgetting to pick them up.

00:17:48.000 And you pulled up your Corvette.

00:17:49.000 Yeah, well, that was the lieutenant spot I pulled it in.

00:17:52.000 That sort of pissed him off.

00:17:54.000 Anyway. 1.00

00:17:57.000 You know, sometimes you want to make a point, like, fuck you. 1.00

00:17:59.000 He's trying to take my girlfriend away. 1.00

00:18:00.000 Fuck you. 1.00

00:18:01.000 I'm parking in your spot. 1.00

00:18:02.000 You're not getting her or the spot now.

00:18:03.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

00:18:07.000 So it was just, it seemed like it was a lot of fun.

00:18:10.000 Like, there was this one case where you guys were talking about where you kept circling the block.

00:18:16.000 Listen, let's not get a better story.

00:18:17.000 That was fun.

00:18:18.000 That was fun.

00:18:19.000 But I brought a cheat sheet with me because, you know, I got like 600 stories here.

00:18:23.000 Right.

00:18:24.000 And I'm working with a guy named Rob Sear right now.

00:18:26.000 Him and I are starting to collaborate on...

00:18:28.000 We're going to do maybe the book again.

00:18:30.000 You know, we got to...

00:18:31.000 Please do.

00:18:32.000 Well, this is a process here.

00:18:33.000 You know how things...

00:18:34.000 You know, you've been probably through this yourself personally.

00:18:36.000 We got some people in, but...

00:18:40.000 We're dealing with Sony a little bit.

00:18:42.000 We're trying to get this thing right.

00:18:43.000 I think Rob Sia, who's an ex-New York City cop, who's done a couple bestsellers, he might be the right one to put the whole thing together with me.

00:18:50.000 I can speak.

00:18:51.000 He can write.

00:18:52.000 He knows the color in the middle.

00:18:53.000 We're a writer and could make it happen.

00:18:56.000 Especially since he was a cop.

00:18:58.000 He was a cop, and he's got some credibility.

00:19:00.000 He does the Gotham comedy show in Manhattan.

00:19:03.000 I don't know.

00:19:04.000 They run some live shows sometimes.

00:19:06.000 Oh, live from Gotham?

00:19:07.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:08.000 On AXS TV? Yeah, he does a lot of that stuff.

00:19:10.000 So he's involved in that.

00:19:11.000 So he's got some credibility.

00:19:12.000 He does it as a comic?

00:19:14.000 Does he do stand-up?

00:19:15.000 No.

00:19:16.000 He's in the productions part of it and stuff like that.

00:19:19.000 But he's a writer, and he wrote two bestsellers.

00:19:22.000 So I think we're going to have him talk with, what's his name?

00:19:26.000 Lesher.

00:19:27.000 Lesher from the...

00:19:29.000 John Lesher, I think his name is.

00:19:31.000 Who's that?

00:19:32.000 He's got the Academy Award list, yeah.

00:19:34.000 Oh, okay.

00:19:35.000 So we're going to have a little discussion, him and I. About doing a movie or something?

00:19:39.000 About the 75 movie.

00:19:41.000 Sony owns the rights.

00:19:42.000 Right.

00:19:42.000 We're just trying to make it work right now, you know?

00:19:44.000 So there's a lot of discussion going on on making it come together properly.

00:19:47.000 So Sony owns the rights to do a dramatic recreation?

00:19:50.000 Recreation of the 75, yeah.

00:19:52.000 Wow, okay.

00:19:53.000 Yeah.

00:19:53.000 I think you've got to do a book, though, because I've got to imagine there's no way they're going to jam that into...

00:19:59.000 I'm going to tell you a funny story.

00:20:00.000 So I'm on patrol in Brooklyn, and I'm working with...

00:20:04.000 I can't remember.

00:20:05.000 It could have been Kenny. 0.97

00:20:05.000 I don't fucking know. 0.97

00:20:06.000 I don't care, because I'm just telling you from my perspective. 0.98

00:20:09.000 And down the block comes this guy Chickie. 1.00

00:20:12.000 Chickie's in the movie.

00:20:13.000 Yeah.

00:20:13.000 He's pissed.

00:20:14.000 And in the back of his trunk of his car, the trunk is wide open in the back, and he's got this joker poker machine in the back of his car, the patrol car.

00:20:24.000 What's a joker poker machine?

00:20:26.000 A gambling machine?

00:20:27.000 It's a gambling machine, yeah.

00:20:28.000 You put your money in, and they don't pay out, but they do pay out if you know the right people behind the counter there.

00:20:34.000 So it's a gambling device that you can get away with gambling or not.

00:20:37.000 We hand out candy.

00:20:38.000 Instead, they hand out money, depending upon who the patron is.

00:20:41.000 Oh, I see.

00:20:41.000 Okay.

00:20:42.000 So back in the 80s, that was the gig.

00:20:43.000 So we're driving down the block, and here comes the sergeant.

00:20:46.000 He's driving this way.

00:20:46.000 I'm driving this way.

00:20:48.000 I helped him load the machine into the back of the...

00:20:52.000 Patrol car, because it's heavy, you know?

00:20:54.000 It's about a thousand pounds, this machine.

00:20:55.000 So he loads this into the back of his patrol car, and up pulls the sergeant.

00:20:59.000 You know, the sergeant has no idea what's going on.

00:21:02.000 It's like, what's going on?

00:21:03.000 Oh, this guy pissed me off, Chicky.

00:21:05.000 He starts saying, this guy pissed me off.

00:21:06.000 You know, the guy behind the counter, you know, he made me pay for soda or something.

00:21:11.000 Meanwhile, he's got illegal joker poker machines in his store.

00:21:14.000 So Chicky says, um...

00:21:16.000 That's it.

00:21:18.000 These your machines?

00:21:19.000 He goes, yeah, the owner, the patron of the store.

00:21:20.000 He goes, yeah, that's my machine.

00:21:22.000 So he says, okay.

00:21:24.000 He takes the machine, blows them in the back of his car.

00:21:26.000 He's going to take them home and empty them out because there's $4,000 and quarters in the machine, right?

00:21:31.000 So he's pissed.

00:21:32.000 The guy made him buy a soda for a dollar.

00:21:33.000 Now he's going to take all the quarters out of the machine.

00:21:35.000 So here comes a sergeant.

00:21:37.000 Sergeant is driving by.

00:21:38.000 He's on probation.

00:21:39.000 Cops go on probation, and they pass.

00:21:41.000 Then they move state patrolman steady.

00:21:43.000 A sergeant goes from patrolman to sergeant, and then he's on probationary period.

00:21:47.000 So here comes a sergeant on probation.

00:21:49.000 He sees this four or five year veteran cop with a joker poker machine in the back of the trunk of his car.

00:21:54.000 And he goes, what's going on?

00:21:57.000 He says, oh, the guy pissed me off, Sergeant. 1.00

00:21:59.000 I'm not letting him do this illegal gambling shit. 0.99

00:22:02.000 There's everywhere. 1.00

00:22:02.000 Every fucking store has one, right? 1.00

00:22:04.000 Right. 1.00

00:22:04.000 So there's 600 stores. 1.00

00:22:06.000 There's 6,000 machines in the precinct, but this one's got to go, you know?

00:22:10.000 So Sergeant says, what are you doing?

00:22:11.000 He says, I'm taking it.

00:22:11.000 He goes, why?

00:22:12.000 Well, the guy pissed me off.

00:22:13.000 He was rude.

00:22:13.000 He's disrespectful.

00:22:14.000 And this is illegal.

00:22:16.000 It's a crime.

00:22:17.000 And we got guys getting shot, murdered, stabbed, selling crack on every corner.

00:22:21.000 He's taking this guy's joke, a poker machine.

00:22:23.000 So that's how insignificant these things normally are.

00:22:25.000 So the sergeant's like, Chicky, he may have disrespected you, and you may be pissed off, but you got to put it back, please.

00:22:32.000 The sergeant's like, he's like, why, sergeant?

00:22:34.000 He goes, oh, I'm on probation.

00:22:35.000 I don't need any problems.

00:22:37.000 So, P.S. We go, okay, sergeant, no problem.

00:22:39.000 Bring it back.

00:22:40.000 So Chicky turns around, looks at me, he goes...

00:22:42.000 All right, Sarge, we're putting it back.

00:22:44.000 We drove back to the store.

00:22:45.000 Sarge left.

00:22:45.000 Went right from the store to Chickie's apartment.

00:22:49.000 Like you said, you wanted two apartments before?

00:22:51.000 Anyway, he had an apartment local in the precinct.

00:22:53.000 We went to the apartment, dropped the Joker poker machine off at his apartment.

00:22:57.000 I mean, these are the things we would do, you know, just because you could.

00:23:00.000 Just because you could?

00:23:01.000 Because you could.

00:23:02.000 Well, it seems like it was just, there was a lot of excitement.

00:23:05.000 Like, doing all that, like, the driving around the block store was my favorite because you were driving around the block for like an hour and a half.

00:23:12.000 Yeah.

00:23:12.000 Well, because Chickie didn't get there in time.

00:23:15.000 He didn't have a car.

00:23:16.000 Chickie had left the job because of all the investigations.

00:23:18.000 Right.

00:23:18.000 You got that from the documentary.

00:23:20.000 Yeah.

00:23:20.000 So I needed someone.

00:23:22.000 Kenny wasn't available.

00:23:24.000 So I don't even know if I was working with him yet.

00:23:26.000 He'll say he probably was, but whatever.

00:23:28.000 Anyway, so Chickie had his car in the shop being repaired. 0.97

00:23:31.000 So I'm like, you've got to be fucking kidding me.

00:23:33.000 I need someone now with a car and a badge. 0.97

00:23:35.000 That's all I need.

00:23:37.000 So I didn't want to lose sight of the house in case...

00:23:39.000 Well, for people who haven't seen the documentary, what was going on?

00:23:43.000 Well, there was a burglary call at the house, so we responded as patrol people, and we checked out the place, and inside there was two young girls who were sitting there on the floor in this home with the door knob broken off. 0.97

00:23:55.000 And they said that they were given permission by the owner of the home to spend the afternoon or day here in her home.

00:24:01.000 I asked her, well, where did the owner happen to be since you broke the door knob to get in?

00:24:06.000 Oh, she's in prison right now. 0.99

00:24:07.000 I said, oh, and for what?

00:24:09.000 And she goes, well, I think for drugs. 0.80

00:24:11.000 I said, okay.

00:24:12.000 Very good.

00:24:13.000 Thank you. 0.99

00:24:14.000 So I turned left hard and there's a box of fucking shoes, piles of box of shoes. 0.98

00:24:18.000 If anyone knows anything about the drug business, they spend a lot of money on their personal shoes because what else are you going to spend money on, you know? 0.99

00:24:25.000 Right.

00:24:25.000 You can't build a new house in the ghetto.

00:24:26.000 You're just wasting your money.

00:24:28.000 But you could have a lot of shoes.

00:24:29.000 So I saw all these boxes of shoes, nice, high heels, pumps, all this stuff.

00:24:32.000 So I said, okay, there's a girl in here spending a lot of money on shoes. 1.00

00:24:36.000 And the furniture looked pretty good for the location. 0.99

00:24:39.000 So I open the closet, and there's a fucking duffel bag filled with cash. 0.99

00:24:44.000 I pick up... 0.98

00:24:45.000 Actually, that's really not exactly what happened.

00:24:47.000 Some anti-crime guy went in there, picked up the bag.

00:24:50.000 He looks at me.

00:24:51.000 I look at him.

00:24:51.000 I go, what are you going to do, voucher this?

00:24:52.000 Come on, we'll spend all day vouchering the money.

00:24:54.000 Leave it there.

00:24:55.000 He looks at me.

00:24:56.000 He looks at me.

00:24:57.000 He goes, all right.

00:24:58.000 He puts it down.

00:24:58.000 I put my hand in the bag and start stuffing the money in my pockets.

00:25:01.000 But...

00:25:02.000 I didn't have enough room.

00:25:03.000 I was wearing summer clothes.

00:25:04.000 I didn't have my winter uniform on with the jacket where you can stuff everything.

00:25:08.000 So anyway, I said, this is not going to work.

00:25:10.000 It's too much money here.

00:25:11.000 You can't run out of a building with a bag filled with money and have the cops see you because they're going to say, where'd the bag go, right?

00:25:19.000 So my enemy was the cops at this point.

00:25:21.000 So I found a way to circle a house for an hour and a half in every possible direction you could.

00:25:26.000 And then Chickie finally pulled up with another guy that was retired from the job.

00:25:30.000 They walked in with their dupe badges on and the landlord lets them in and Yeah, up there.

00:25:36.000 They just left that apartment right up there.

00:25:39.000 When he went in, he'd come out with a bag, and about a minute later, I pulled him over.

00:25:42.000 Boop, boop, pulled him over. 1.00

00:25:45.000 I go, what are you going to do?

00:25:46.000 He goes, let's go to Atlantic City.

00:25:48.000 I go, great.

00:25:49.000 I go back to the cell phone.

00:25:51.000 I go back to the pay phone on the corner.

00:25:53.000 Back then we had the original car phone. 0.98

00:25:55.000 You would drive the patrol car up on a curb and just reach out to the fucking AT&T phone booth. 0.92

00:26:01.000 So you'd sit in the patrol car and dial the precinct. 0.99

00:26:03.000 So I dialed the precinct.

00:26:04.000 It was a free call, by the way.

00:26:05.000 You'd have to pay for it.

00:26:07.000 And...

00:26:09.000 And, hey boss, yeah, my wife needs me at home right now, you know, one of the kids broke a toe, whatever, whatever excuse you can come up with.

00:26:15.000 Okay, no problem, come in, you can take lost time, it's called lost time.

00:26:20.000 So I told a girl in the car I was working with, who was an IED plant, by the way.

00:26:24.000 She was an internal affairs plant sitting with me the whole time. 1.00

00:26:26.000 I said, okay.

00:26:27.000 I said, you know, I got to go home.

00:26:29.000 My wife just paged me because we had beepers back then. 0.58

00:26:30.000 My wife just paged me if the kid's sick or something.

00:26:32.000 And so I went back to the precinct, signed out, went to Atlantic City in a limousine.

00:26:37.000 And so I cleaned the money.

00:26:38.000 The girl who was driving around with you as you were going around for an hour and a half was a plant? 1.00

00:26:43.000 Yeah, she was an internal affairs cop.

00:26:47.000 I don't know if I ever told anybody that.

00:26:48.000 But yeah, she was an internal affairs cop.

00:26:50.000 So did she get suspicious?

00:26:51.000 Did she ask questions while you were driving around in a circle for an hour and a half?

00:26:54.000 Well, I told her.

00:26:54.000 I told her.

00:26:55.000 I said, just in case someone comes back and breaks in the house, you don't want to see this people's house get ransacked or anything.

00:26:59.000 Right, right, right.

00:26:59.000 She didn't know there was money in there, otherwise she would probably vouch for it, you know?

00:27:02.000 Right.

00:27:02.000 We didn't let her know that.

00:27:03.000 Right.

00:27:04.000 But did you know she was a plant?

00:27:06.000 Yes.

00:27:07.000 So you knew?

00:27:08.000 Yes.

00:27:08.000 Wow.

00:27:09.000 Very good job they did of hiding the plant.

00:27:13.000 In fact, I had a beer with her two days before.

00:27:15.000 But it seemed like all this stuff that you were doing, all these criminals that you were dealing with, like the heightened sort of environment that you were in must have been very addictive because there was just so much going on.

00:27:28.000 There was so much action.

00:27:31.000 It was...

00:27:32.000 Listen, when you're 28 years old and you're driving to work...

00:27:36.000 And you got the nerves on one side of your body freezing up on the other side from your head to your arms going numb. 0.99

00:27:41.000 Yeah, there was a lot of shit going on. 0.98

00:27:43.000 Why was it going numb? 1.00

00:27:44.000 I don't know if it was from the coke or from the nerves.

00:27:46.000 Just because you didn't know it was going to happen from one day to the next, but you just couldn't get out of it.

00:27:50.000 The stress must have been insane.

00:27:52.000 Yeah, it was insane.

00:27:54.000 I'd pull over on the side of the road and say, okay, if I die over here, it's okay.

00:27:57.000 They'll find me.

00:27:58.000 Like, that's how crazy it is.

00:28:00.000 So if you die from a heart attack, you die from coke?

00:28:03.000 Yeah, I didn't know what it was going to be.

00:28:04.000 Wow.

00:28:05.000 Driving to work, I'm not sure.

00:28:06.000 So I feel my body starting to go out.

00:28:08.000 So I pull over to the right so I didn't hurt anybody.

00:28:11.000 I'm very conscientious here, right?

00:28:14.000 That's weird.

00:28:15.000 Wow.

00:28:15.000 So there was so much going.

00:28:17.000 I mean, how much coke were you doing?

00:28:18.000 Not that much.

00:28:19.000 I was a steady bumper.

00:28:20.000 I wouldn't do a lot.

00:28:21.000 Just doing it all the time?

00:28:23.000 Yeah.

00:28:23.000 So it wasn't like giant Scarface-like quantities?

00:28:25.000 No, if I did lines like that, I'd be dead.

00:28:27.000 Yeah.

00:28:27.000 I don't know how they did it.

00:28:28.000 I tried that once.

00:28:29.000 It almost killed me.

00:28:30.000 When you were testifying in that film, that was one of the more intense parts of that movie because you were just 100% open, 100% honest about it.

00:28:43.000 To my own fault, yeah.

00:28:43.000 To your own fault?

00:28:44.000 Yeah.

00:28:44.000 Do you think you shouldn't have?

00:28:45.000 Some things I just should never fucking mention. 0.96

00:28:47.000 Like what? 1.00

00:28:47.000 Like with the girl and the money under the fucking Bible. 1.00

00:28:50.000 Excuse me, Lord. 0.99

00:28:53.000 I'm still scared of God.

00:28:54.000 He'd come and get me.

00:28:55.000 I ask forgiveness every day.

00:28:58.000 That was the most horrific thing I ever did, I think.

00:29:01.000 Of the thousands of things I did, I took someone's $340, whatever it was.

00:29:06.000 I don't know.

00:29:06.000 He counted better than me.

00:29:08.000 But it just seemed like...

00:29:11.000 It seemed almost for you at the time, like when I was watching it, like you were just so overwhelmed with the pressure of everything that it was almost a relief to get everything off your back.

00:29:22.000 When they locked me up, if I tell you how the arrest went down, it's insane.

00:29:26.000 But anyway, when they finally put me in the car and tell me I'm under arrest, it was like, now I can go to sleep.

00:29:33.000 Really?

00:29:34.000 I can actually sleep.

00:29:35.000 And the funny thing of it all was, you know, this is a little touching maybe, but we're not, but I try to be light-hearted here.

00:29:41.000 I call my wife from the county jail, and she goes to me, Mike, please don't take this the wrong way.

00:29:48.000 She says, but I had the best night's sleep of my life last night because I knew where you were. 0.98

00:29:52.000 I said, you've got to be fucking kidding me. 0.97

00:29:55.000 That's hilarious. 0.99

00:29:56.000 I don't know.

00:29:57.000 Because I knew where you were.

00:29:59.000 I knew where you were.

00:30:00.000 She slept like a baby, and I had roaches crawling in my ears, but yeah, that's okay.

00:30:05.000 How much of what was going on did she know about?

00:30:08.000 She only knew that I was doing wrong for the most part, and she knew there were drugs involved, but she never touched it, got involved in it.

00:30:17.000 She just begged me every day, stop. 1.00

00:30:20.000 But it seems like you kind of can't.

00:30:22.000 It's hard. 0.67

00:30:23.000 Does anybody ever go corrupt and then just go cold turkey like a heroin addict?

00:30:27.000 Good story.

00:30:28.000 Yeah?

00:30:29.000 I tried.

00:30:30.000 Did you?

00:30:30.000 I called Internal Affairs.

00:30:32.000 Really?

00:30:32.000 Yeah.

00:30:33.000 When?

00:30:33.000 How old were you?

00:30:34.000 I was a cop.

00:30:36.000 I was in the middle of my heyday.

00:30:38.000 I said, I'm going to have to stop and turn over a new leaf.

00:30:40.000 My son was born, and I had to become a responsible father, I said.

00:30:44.000 And this is not going to work out doing what I'm doing.

00:30:46.000 Right.

00:30:47.000 So I was in Coney Island, which is where I think the movie's going to start, if they do it the way I suggest.

00:30:53.000 I'm in Coney Island in front of Nathan's.

00:30:56.000 Right by Nathan's is the bumper car station where everybody goes and drives the bumper cars and they bang into each other.

00:31:00.000 And it was a rainy summer.

00:31:01.000 There must have been 30 good days and the rest were lousy for the whole summer.

00:31:05.000 And this is one of the days that it was.

00:31:06.000 And up pulls this Mercedes Benz, a guy in the car with the gold rope chains and the whole drug package going on.

00:31:13.000 I just turned my head to my partner. 0.99

00:31:15.000 I said to him, look at the fucking gold on this guy's neck. 0.99

00:31:18.000 Now, he's got boombox going, those big woofers and everything, convertible Mercedes. 1.00

00:31:22.000 That's all I said.

00:31:24.000 All of a sudden, I hear, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.

00:31:26.000 And I don't turn for yo, yo, yo, yo for nobody. 0.98

00:31:30.000 But I hear the footsteps, feel the weight of it, and I just glance back, and I see a shield in the guy's hand, a big black dude monster. 1.00

00:31:36.000 I go, what's up? 0.94

00:31:38.000 What do you want?

00:31:39.000 You?

00:31:41.000 I said, whoa, whoa, what's going on?

00:31:43.000 He goes, you said, I asked you, can I park here, and you said, can't you read?

00:31:48.000 I said, where'd that happen, that conversation?

00:31:51.000 All I did was turn to my- And he was a cop?

00:31:53.000 Yeah.

00:31:53.000 So he was undercover?

00:31:55.000 No.

00:31:56.000 No?

00:31:56.000 No.

00:31:57.000 So he was a corrupt cop, too? 0.97

00:31:58.000 He was a corrupt cop, yeah. 0.97

00:31:59.000 Wow. 0.72

00:31:59.000 I didn't know this, I didn't know him. 0.72

00:32:01.000 So you thought he was a drug dealer?

00:32:02.000 I thought he was a drug dealer.

00:32:05.000 All I was doing was commenting the package he had.

00:32:09.000 Giant gold and Mercedes.

00:32:12.000 The girls had the hoops with the dollar signs. 1.00

00:32:14.000 It was the package.

00:32:15.000 The girl had hoops with dollar signs? 1.00

00:32:17.000 Yeah, you know how that was.

00:32:18.000 That was the 80s.

00:32:19.000 Oh, those are the best.

00:32:20.000 Any girl with a hoop dollar sign, that's my kind of girl. 1.00

00:32:24.000 Yeah, I mean, you know.

00:32:25.000 I just like it when they wear it on their sleeve.

00:32:26.000 It's clear.

00:32:28.000 It's pretty clear where this is going, right?

00:32:30.000 Right.

00:32:31.000 So anyway.

00:32:31.000 So he doesn't know you're a cop.

00:32:33.000 I'm in uniform walking to Coney Island.

00:32:35.000 I was sent to Coney Island Detail because I was in trouble in East New York.

00:32:38.000 So he's giving you a hard time and he knows you're a cop.

00:32:41.000 Yeah, I'm in uniform and he's giving me a hard time.

00:32:42.000 A very embarrassing moment because you don't do that.

00:32:44.000 You don't punk each other out like that because now you create a scene where something has to be, you know, mediated.

00:32:50.000 So he's probably coked up.

00:32:52.000 At the very least.

00:32:53.000 I'm not going to answer for him.

00:32:54.000 Who knows?

00:32:55.000 But he's whacked out, let's put it that way.

00:32:56.000 Something's going on.

00:32:57.000 Something's going on.

00:32:58.000 Yeah, he's full of himself.

00:32:59.000 He's full of self-importance. 1.00

00:33:00.000 Who the fuck does he think he is when he's talking to me? 1.00

00:33:03.000 Right. 1.00

00:33:03.000 Talk about self-importance, right? 1.00

00:33:05.000 So anyway, he makes this big scene, and I can't squelch the scene.

00:33:09.000 The sergeant comes, and it's over with.

00:33:11.000 Okay.

00:33:13.000 About a week.

00:33:14.000 I could tell the story different ways, but the fact is, a couple days, a couple weeks later, I go by.

00:33:18.000 I'm out sick, which I should be home in my house, but I'm out.

00:33:21.000 I just left the beach with my wife.

00:33:23.000 I'm driving home from the beach, and I see this car parked on 111 right across from the cleaners, which is known for having a crack spot above it.

00:33:30.000 Anyway.

00:33:31.000 And it's his car. 1.00

00:33:33.000 And it's his fucking name on the license plate. 1.00

00:33:35.000 That's how I know it. 1.00

00:33:35.000 Well, the car stands out, but it has his name on the license plate. 1.00

00:33:38.000 You can't fucking, you can't miss that. 0.99

00:33:39.000 Right. 0.99

00:33:40.000 And I asked my wife, I said, what does he look like?

00:33:42.000 Get a good look at him.

00:33:44.000 Because I don't want to stop, turn around, make it obvious, but I could see him, you know, I've seen him a few times.

00:33:49.000 I had an argument with him for 20 minutes.

00:33:51.000 Anyway, long story short, I go home.

00:33:53.000 I call Internal Affairs.

00:33:54.000 They rush to my house.

00:33:55.000 Joe Tromboli, the guy in the movie that says the hair on the back of his neck stood up, he comes in my house with Lieutenant Maher. 1.00

00:34:00.000 They start grilling me about my fucking life. 0.98

00:34:03.000 I'm like, I called up on a guy selling drugs. 1.00

00:34:05.000 No wonder why no one talks to you people.

00:34:08.000 Anyway, Lieutenant Moss sends Joe Tromboli out of the house.

00:34:12.000 And I go, Lieutenant, is this about me? 0.99

00:34:15.000 Because I'll just get a fucking lawyer. 0.99

00:34:17.000 I don't know what's going on. 1.00

00:34:18.000 I called you because some guy was selling crack around the neighborhood.

00:34:21.000 He goes, well, how do you know he's selling crack?

00:34:22.000 I said, look, I don't know.

00:34:23.000 But he's in a crack spot.

00:34:24.000 And he's a cop.

00:34:25.000 That's all I'm telling you.

00:34:26.000 All right?

00:34:26.000 So I want to turn off a new leaf.

00:34:27.000 Start my new life.

00:34:28.000 I got a new baby.

00:34:29.000 Everything's going to be good now.

00:34:30.000 I'm going to be a good cop.

00:34:32.000 Four weeks later, three weeks later, I'm getting calls at midnight.

00:34:35.000 Not midnight.

00:34:36.000 It's two in the morning.

00:34:36.000 I'm getting calls at three.

00:34:37.000 I work six or two shifts at Coney Island.

00:34:39.000 Three o'clock in the morning, my phone rings.

00:34:41.000 Nothing.

00:34:42.000 Nothing.

00:34:43.000 Nothing.

00:34:43.000 This went on for about...

00:34:44.000 If I say three weeks, it could have been two, whatever.

00:34:46.000 It went on for an extended period of time.

00:34:48.000 Finally, I get the guy to talk one day. 1.00

00:34:50.000 I go, bro, what the fuck, man? 0.99

00:34:52.000 Why don't you just come out with it? 1.00

00:34:53.000 He goes, I'm banging your wife every day when she gets off the train in Brentwood.

00:34:58.000 I said, really? 0.93

00:34:59.000 That's nice.

00:35:00.000 Yeah, when she comes home from work, come on, she don't work. 1.00

00:35:03.000 Yeah, okay, so she's, so he goes to train from work, you're picking her up in Bretwood and you're banging her.

00:35:07.000 He goes, yeah.

00:35:08.000 I said, okay.

00:35:09.000 So what else can you tell me?

00:35:10.000 I says, well, why don't you come to my house, I tell him, and we just do this, since you seem to know where I am. 1.00

00:35:14.000 He goes, why don't I put a bullet in your fucking head right now, he tells me. 1.00

00:35:17.000 And I'm standing in front of a plate glass window. 1.00

00:35:20.000 So I'm like, ah! 0.99

00:35:22.000 Meanwhile, my wife's screaming, and they're like, who the fuck is this? 1.00

00:35:25.000 I'm like, shut the fuck up! 1.00

00:35:26.000 The guy's finally talking! 1.00

00:35:28.000 You're fucking this whole thing up! 1.00

00:35:30.000 So now I'm sucking sand out of the bottom of my rug and trying to stay alive and crawling into the back room where my son and my wife are sleeping. 1.00

00:35:39.000 They're not anymore.

00:35:40.000 And I'm like, I can't believe this. 0.99

00:35:42.000 This guy's fucking... 0.99

00:35:43.000 He knows where I live and he's got to be a cop. 1.00

00:35:45.000 I don't know that until that moment, I realized, because no one has my number, and cops can get each other's number by calling the precinct.

00:35:51.000 I want to get in touch with so-and-so.

00:35:53.000 I want to get in touch with so-and-so.

00:35:54.000 And we have private numbers in a log at the precinct that you can get my number at if you need to speak to me.

00:35:59.000 Turns out that he was already arrested.

00:36:01.000 He was out on bail when he's doing this to me.

00:36:04.000 So it was the same guy, the gold chain guy.

00:36:06.000 Yeah, same guy.

00:36:09.000 So here I am trying to turn over a new leaf.

00:36:11.000 You asked a question.

00:36:12.000 I didn't pose this.

00:36:13.000 You said, so what if I went cold turkey like a heroin junkie and tried to start from there?

00:36:17.000 Well, I did.

00:36:18.000 And look what happened to me. 0.97

00:36:19.000 They threatened to kill me. 0.99

00:36:21.000 They threatened to kill me. 0.84

00:36:21.000 That's the beginning of it. 0.84

00:36:22.000 Then I leave the Coney Island Detail.

00:36:24.000 I go back to the 7-5, and no one wants to work with me.

00:36:27.000 So if you go to the documentary, you hear, Mike's no good.

00:36:29.000 Stay away from him.

00:36:30.000 Mike's no good. 0.98

00:36:31.000 They didn't want to work with me because they heard I was a rat. 0.96

00:36:35.000 Wow.

00:36:35.000 Because I gave up a cop for corruption.

00:36:37.000 Right?

00:36:38.000 He wears a wire.

00:36:39.000 I never did, by the way.

00:36:40.000 Kenny's good with them.

00:36:41.000 I never wore a wire.

00:36:42.000 I never really gave up a good cop or a cop that did... 0.98

00:36:45.000 That guy was selling drugs on fucking Long Island, trying to do the right thing. 0.98

00:36:47.000 Turn him in. 0.99

00:36:48.000 I know they're looking at me for drugs.

00:36:50.000 We're not no more.

00:36:50.000 I'm no more involved with drugs.

00:36:52.000 I gave up the game.

00:36:53.000 I wanted to be straight.

00:36:54.000 So you can't go straight is what I'm trying to tell you.

00:36:55.000 Once you get labeled in the police department, you're done.

00:36:57.000 Because no one would work with me because I was straight.

00:37:01.000 Well, no one wanted to work with you because they thought that you were untrustworthy because you were turning this cop in.

00:37:06.000 Well, that's what I'm telling you.

00:37:08.000 Right.

00:37:08.000 But they would never admit to that.

00:37:10.000 They go, anybody you talk to now says, no, he was rogue, he was corrupt.

00:37:14.000 Right.

00:37:14.000 But the fact is, they wouldn't work with me because they were afraid I was going to turn them in.

00:37:17.000 And if you hear in the documentary, he says, well, Kenny says, the only thing you turn me in for is having a beer.

00:37:22.000 He mentions that Mike and I had a bee together and I could just walk away from this partnership and they put us on the farm together, which I went to the farm three times, so I'm pretty good with the farm too.

00:37:30.000 What's the farm?

00:37:31.000 The farm is where you go when you go for a rehab.

00:37:33.000 You know, like if you need help.

00:37:34.000 Yeah?

00:37:37.000 Intervention.

00:37:37.000 Like, they do interventions today.

00:37:39.000 Right.

00:37:39.000 Well, they did farms back then.

00:37:42.000 Farms?

00:37:42.000 Yeah, you went to the farm.

00:37:43.000 Like an actual farm?

00:37:44.000 Yeah, you would go to the farm. 0.99

00:37:45.000 Like where cows are and shit? 1.00

00:37:47.000 Yeah, where cows are. 1.00

00:37:48.000 They had a fish pond. 0.99

00:37:50.000 They had hay fields and shit. 0.98

00:37:52.000 And what would you do there? 0.99

00:37:53.000 Just relax?

00:37:54.000 You'd dry out, you know?

00:37:57.000 Okay.

00:37:57.000 It was a place for mostly alcoholics, but, you know.

00:37:59.000 And they called it the farm?

00:38:00.000 It was called the farm.

00:38:01.000 Okay.

00:38:02.000 Yeah.

00:38:02.000 And cops would go there, too?

00:38:03.000 Or just anybody would go there?

00:38:05.000 You'd be in rehabilitation.

00:38:06.000 Okay.

00:38:06.000 But it was known as the farm.

00:38:08.000 Right.

00:38:08.000 Yeah.

00:38:09.000 It's renowned in the police department lingo.

00:38:11.000 Okay.

00:38:12.000 Yeah.

00:38:13.000 So...

00:38:13.000 So I went to the farm three times in like nine months.

00:38:16.000 Wow.

00:38:16.000 I needed to...

00:38:17.000 Well, they were after me, too. 0.99

00:38:18.000 You know, they were fucking hard on me. 0.97

00:38:20.000 And two of my friends just went to prison. 0.99

00:38:22.000 Walter, who's in the film.

00:38:23.000 They went to a prison for a robbery they committed.

00:38:25.000 Was Walter the big guy?

00:38:26.000 Yeah.

00:38:27.000 Walter's the monster guy.

00:38:28.000 Yeah.

00:38:29.000 Yeah.

00:38:29.000 Always helps having a giant guy, huh?

00:38:31.000 You gotta have something.

00:38:32.000 The fluff.

00:38:33.000 The fluff is good, you know?

00:38:34.000 He was a pretty sharp guy, too. 0.99

00:38:36.000 But, you know, he was young and dumb, too. 0.99

00:38:38.000 So he wound up going away. 0.99

00:38:39.000 Did Chickie go away?

00:38:40.000 And then he did a short bit.

00:38:41.000 He did, like, two years, and he came home.

00:38:42.000 Chickie went away for nine months.

00:38:43.000 And then they came back, and they needed work.

00:38:46.000 So I helped find them work.

00:38:49.000 Different times, you know?

00:38:50.000 Right.

00:38:50.000 Chickie went to work for Adam as one of my point men.

00:38:53.000 When I was off, I put Chickie on the clock. 0.94

00:38:56.000 So if I wanted to go home, you know, do my...

00:38:58.000 You know, go home.

00:39:00.000 If to work, I'd have Chickie cover the next six or eight hours of shift that the bodega would be open selling their cocaine. 0.95

00:39:06.000 Now, that's where it gets crazy.

00:39:08.000 The bodega.

00:39:10.000 That's where it gets crazy.

00:39:11.000 Well, that was when you guys escalated.

00:39:13.000 When you got involved with the cocaine dealing.

00:39:16.000 Yeah.

00:39:16.000 Well, what it was was...

00:39:20.000 The handwriting was on the wall that...

00:39:21.000 Because the 7-7 precinct went down for shaking down local thugs and drug dealers.

00:39:26.000 And the rumor was that 7-5 was going down.

00:39:29.000 So we stopped doing that.

00:39:31.000 I went to Coney Island.

00:39:32.000 Half the guys left the precinct to just quit.

00:39:34.000 Quit the police department.

00:39:35.000 Chickie wanted them. 0.63

00:39:37.000 And...

00:39:38.000 When I came back to the 7-5, no one wanted to work with me. 0.79

00:39:41.000 In fact, one of my first days back, I hook up with Walter, who's a rookie kid, didn't know anything except that he liked to make arrests and get involved and shit.

00:39:48.000 And then I'm like, dude, you don't know who I am.

00:39:50.000 I just want nothing to do with this stuff.

00:39:56.000 He's like, yeah, I'll make the arrest.

00:39:57.000 I look at him, okay.

00:39:59.000 You're going to really stop crime in here. 1.00

00:40:00.000 You're going to make an arrest for a fucking drug. 1.00

00:40:02.000 Okay, good. 0.99

00:40:03.000 But I want to do it because I don't want the attention.

00:40:05.000 Meanwhile, Joe Tromboli, the guy that's following, he's across the street watching us interact.

00:40:12.000 It's a long story.

00:40:12.000 I'd call for the sergeant to give us a scratch so we can be done for the day.

00:40:16.000 Scratch means the sergeant comes by and gives you a notification that you're on where you're supposed to be.

00:40:21.000 I'm asking the sergeant to give us a scratch just by calling something over the air, not asking for the scratch, because that would be inappropriate.

00:40:26.000 But I would call in a car, license plate, and the sergeant shows up, gives us a scratch.

00:40:30.000 We're done for the day.

00:40:31.000 I get in my private car, go to the bodega, pick up four hamburgers and eight-pack of, you know, little nip Bud Lights.

00:40:37.000 No, they weren't Buds.

00:40:38.000 They were regular Buds back then.

00:40:39.000 And the sergeant is following us the whole time. 1.00

00:40:42.000 He's watching us do all this shit. 0.99

00:40:43.000 Now I'm over in the other end of the precinct because it's one of my favorite bodegas who makes a nice burger. 1.00

00:40:49.000 And we came back to the spot, ate the stuff, threw the shit out the window because it was the ghetto. 1.00

00:40:54.000 That's what you do, like an asshole. 1.00

00:40:56.000 Instead of respecting the community, you fuck the community, because you're an idiot. 1.00

00:40:58.000 You're dumb, young and dumb. 1.00

00:41:00.000 So I threw the eight-pack of beers out the window. 1.00

00:41:03.000 The sergeant sees it flying out the fucking window. 0.99

00:41:04.000 He goes and grabs the cans. 1.00

00:41:06.000 Now he's going to call me in and investigate me for drinking on the job.

00:41:10.000 But Walter stood up and said, no, we didn't have nothing. 1.00

00:41:12.000 He goes, I got the fucking cans! 0.99

00:41:14.000 He goes, they weren't ours. 1.00

00:41:16.000 Walter held his mud early on, so I got to love him.

00:41:20.000 He could have lost his job, because he was on probation.

00:41:23.000 When you guys started dealing with the guys who owned the bodega, that's when the documentary gets most crazy.

00:41:30.000 Right.

00:41:31.000 And that's when it seems like you guys had escalated.

00:41:33.000 You'd gone from just taking a little money here and there and having some fun and going to Atlantic City.

00:41:39.000 Now you are deep.

00:41:41.000 We're deep, yeah.

00:41:42.000 In serious drug dealing.

00:41:44.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:41:45.000 And that's why, you know, when I had the meeting with Diaz, I said, listen, just to talk to us, you've got to pay us money.

00:41:51.000 Because I don't know where this is going to go, but I know it's going deep.

00:41:54.000 So I came up with a number, $24,000.

00:41:56.000 Don't ask me why I didn't say $44,000.

00:41:58.000 I have no idea.

00:42:00.000 I think in my mind it broke down like this.

00:42:02.000 Three months clear pay for each of us.

00:42:05.000 If the taxes at that time, we probably would have cleared...

00:42:08.000 Do the math, you know, $3,000 a month, whatever it was at that time.

00:42:11.000 And I said, okay, so let's have three or four months of clear pay, so if we get jammed up, we can survive.

00:42:16.000 The number I came up in correlation to something like that.

00:42:19.000 So it was in case you got kicked off the force?

00:42:21.000 Yeah, right away, yeah.

00:42:22.000 Okay.

00:42:25.000 Brilliant thinking, right?

00:42:26.000 Knowing that something was not going to be good at the end of this.

00:42:28.000 And where's that guy now?

00:42:29.000 He's in like the Dominican Republic or something like that?

00:42:31.000 Yeah, get him on the phone if you want.

00:42:32.000 Really?

00:42:32.000 Oh, I get him all right.

00:42:33.000 He was fucking hilarious. 0.97

00:42:35.000 He's one of the best characters in the movie. 0.98

00:42:37.000 Speaking of him, he asked me to give you this.

00:42:39.000 Oh, really?

00:42:40.000 Yeah.

00:42:40.000 Oh, beautiful.

00:42:41.000 I don't know if you like cigars.

00:42:42.000 I do like cigars.

00:42:43.000 What kind is this?

00:42:44.000 Yeah, this is the Adam Diaz, King of Brooklyn cigar.

00:42:47.000 What, he's got his own cigar?

00:42:49.000 Yeah.

00:42:49.000 Jesus Christ.

00:42:51.000 It's in the development process right now, but if you check out the label, you really can't see it well, but there's a picture of him with the unibrow.

00:42:57.000 Did you see the movie here with him with the unibrow?

00:43:00.000 Yeah, his unibrow is tight.

00:43:01.000 I respect the commitment to a unibrow. 0.95

00:43:03.000 Yeah, he was, yeah, yeah.

00:43:05.000 They smell good.

00:43:06.000 Yeah.

00:43:06.000 No, no, they're tobacco letta in Dominican.

00:43:09.000 Do you smoke these?

00:43:10.000 They're delicious.

00:43:11.000 Do you smoke?

00:43:11.000 Me and Marty had one.

00:43:12.000 Do you smoke one right here?

00:43:13.000 Do you want?

00:43:13.000 No, no, I wouldn't do that, but I would.

00:43:15.000 They're delicious.

00:43:15.000 That's okay.

00:43:16.000 We can smoke them.

00:43:17.000 We've got a little air machine behind us.

00:43:17.000 If you wanted to, we could.

00:43:18.000 All right, let's do it.

00:43:19.000 If you wanted to, yeah.

00:43:20.000 We've got a knife shaming?

00:43:21.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:43:22.000 A pair of scissors?

00:43:23.000 These are delicious, by the way.

00:43:24.000 I don't have a clipper.

00:43:25.000 Yeah, but... 1.00

00:43:28.000 But he's a fucking character, that guy. 1.00

00:43:30.000 He's a pisser. 1.00

00:43:31.000 He's a pisser. 1.00

00:43:31.000 And that fucking unibrow, that's a commitment. 1.00

00:43:35.000 All these pussies today, trying to take away a couple little waxing eyebrows. 1.00

00:43:40.000 I know, I do it too, like a bitch, but you know. 1.00

00:43:41.000 Do you? 1.00

00:43:41.000 Sometimes. 1.00

00:43:42.000 You pluck your eyebrows?

00:43:42.000 No, I don't pluck, I shave.

00:43:43.000 Do you really?

00:43:44.000 Shave the middle?

00:43:45.000 I used to have more hair there than now.

00:43:47.000 I don't know what happened.

00:43:48.000 I think from doing this all the time.

00:43:49.000 Yeah, from frowning?

00:43:50.000 You wore it off?

00:43:52.000 Or maybe from the mat?

00:43:54.000 Maybe.

00:43:55.000 Getting choked.

00:43:56.000 Bad defense.

00:43:59.000 So a funny story with Adam, and I think most people appreciate this.

00:44:02.000 I hope they do.

00:44:04.000 Adam's paying me $8,000 a week right now.

00:44:07.000 I don't see him for two weeks. 0.74

00:44:08.000 Now I'm getting a little fucking nervous, right? 0.96

00:44:10.000 Right. 0.95

00:44:10.000 What do we got? 0.95

00:44:11.000 Oh, a pair of scissors.

00:44:12.000 There you go. 0.99

00:44:13.000 What the fuck happened to these scissors? 1.00

00:44:16.000 What are you doing, Jamie? 1.00

00:44:17.000 Getting crazy when I'm not here?

00:44:19.000 So Adam Diaz and I haven't seen each other in two weeks.

00:44:22.000 I'm getting a little annoyed because I want my money.

00:44:24.000 I want it on time.

00:44:25.000 And part of the deal was whether you're making money or not, you're paying me because we've already opened the door to this.

00:44:31.000 I'm going to start living the life, you know?

00:44:34.000 And can you open that, Mike?

00:44:38.000 I'm just gonna start living.

00:44:39.000 My neck is killing me.

00:44:41.000 What's wrong?

00:44:41.000 I got two vertebrae banged up there.

00:44:44.000 Someone probably grabbed me the wrong way.

00:44:47.000 I hurt myself at work.

00:44:48.000 Right.

00:44:49.000 Just recently.

00:44:50.000 So Adam Diaz.

00:44:51.000 So anyway, I haven't seen this guy, and he owes me now two weeks.

00:44:54.000 Right.

00:44:55.000 Okay.

00:44:56.000 And if you learn anything about me, I don't like to be owed, and I don't like to owe.

00:44:58.000 I like to pay, I like to be paid on time, and I'm always early.

00:45:01.000 So anyway.

00:45:06.000 I finally see him.

00:45:09.000 He's got the red Porsche.

00:45:10.000 I mean, 911 Targa, 22 years old, right?

00:45:15.000 Yeah, go ahead.

00:45:16.000 911 Targa, blonde-haired, blue-eyed Dominican, 22 years old, convertible.

00:45:21.000 There he goes down New Lots Avenue, where New Lots and Vermont meet in this little triangle.

00:45:27.000 And so, and Kenny's with me in the car at the time.

00:45:31.000 Probably the first time he was.

00:45:33.000 But anyway, so...

00:45:37.000 These are pretty good.

00:45:39.000 I just love the fact that I'm smoking that dude's cigar. 1.00

00:45:43.000 Yeah, I just hit the fucking mic. 0.99

00:45:45.000 So I pull him over, and he goes, he doesn't know who it is. 0.99

00:45:51.000 Right.

00:45:52.000 So Diaz is getting pulled over by the police in East New York, and I'm his hook.

00:45:55.000 Right.

00:45:55.000 But he doesn't know that it's me, because he only sees his blue.

00:45:59.000 Right.

00:45:59.000 This tall guy, and he's sitting down low in the Porsche.

00:46:03.000 So...

00:46:06.000 License registration, insurance card. 1.00

00:46:08.000 He's fumbling around looking for his shit. 0.99

00:46:09.000 He probably doesn't have anything, but anyway. 0.99

00:46:12.000 So, he's got his Dominican pants on, his nice loafers. 0.97

00:46:16.000 He's a sharp-looking kid.

00:46:17.000 He's always dressed to the nines.

00:46:18.000 He looked good.

00:46:20.000 And finally he goes, I look at him, I go, Adam, it's me!

00:46:23.000 He goes, oh, not on a mic!

00:46:25.000 He jumps up out of the car.

00:46:26.000 Hey, give me a hug. 1.00

00:46:27.000 What the fuck? 1.00

00:46:28.000 Where you been? 1.00

00:46:28.000 Like, I'm annoyed. 1.00

00:46:30.000 I'm annoyed, but I'm being nice.

00:46:32.000 Where you been?

00:46:33.000 I was in Yale.

00:46:36.000 Yale?

00:46:36.000 Yale.

00:46:37.000 Jail?

00:46:38.000 I go, wait, hold on.

00:46:40.000 This is the only thing I can coin in my life that I know of.

00:46:43.000 So I go, Yale.

00:46:45.000 You're in Yale.

00:46:46.000 He goes, yeah.

00:46:47.000 I go, how long were you in Yale?

00:46:48.000 He goes, three, four days.

00:46:50.000 You're up in Yale three or four days.

00:46:52.000 I said, who do you know in Connecticut?

00:46:55.000 I swear to Christ.

00:46:57.000 Who do you know in Connecticut?

00:46:59.000 He goes, Connecticut.

00:47:01.000 I go, yeah, Yale's in Connecticut, the college.

00:47:03.000 He goes, no, no, no.

00:47:04.000 Not college.

00:47:05.000 I was in Yale, Rikers Island.

00:47:08.000 He says that perfectly.

00:47:09.000 I go, you mean jail, not Yale?

00:47:12.000 He goes, yes, Yale! 1.00

00:47:14.000 I go, son of a bitch. 1.00

00:47:15.000 So I think I coined this fucking term. 1.00

00:47:18.000 Jail, not Yale. 1.00

00:47:19.000 Or Yale, not jail.

00:47:20.000 Agreed?

00:47:21.000 This is 1987. Okay.

00:47:23.000 How long have you been hearing that term?

00:47:25.000 Yale, not jail?

00:47:26.000 Yeah.

00:47:26.000 Never.

00:47:26.000 Were you in jail, not Yale?

00:47:28.000 No.

00:47:28.000 I heard it 34 seconds ago.

00:47:31.000 So here's...

00:47:32.000 Thank you.

00:47:34.000 So here's this guy saying...

00:47:37.000 I wasn't in Yale.

00:47:38.000 I was in Yale.

00:47:39.000 I'm like, you mean jail, not Yale!

00:47:42.000 There you go.

00:47:43.000 You just can't say jail?

00:47:44.000 He couldn't say it, yeah.

00:47:45.000 Well, he texts me all the time, and he goes, instead of going, ha, ha, ha, he goes, J-I, J-I, J-I. J-A, J-A, yeah, they do that all the time.

00:47:54.000 What is that?

00:47:56.000 That's ha, ha, ha?

00:47:57.000 Mm-hmm.

00:47:58.000 That's so strange.

00:47:59.000 Yeah, that's how you know if Spanish people are making fun of you.

00:48:01.000 Yeah, J-A, J-A, J-A. Okay.

00:48:05.000 Okay.

00:48:05.000 Yeah.

00:48:06.000 So anyway, you can't make that up.

00:48:10.000 Where were you?

00:48:11.000 I'm thinking he's in college, because he's a sharp kid.

00:48:14.000 But why didn't you automatically assume, like I did, that he meant jail?

00:48:18.000 I'm not as sharp as you know.

00:48:20.000 But you're around Spanish people all the time. 1.00

00:48:22.000 Because he's out in the fucking street. 1.00

00:48:24.000 He's out in the street driving a Porsche. 1.00

00:48:26.000 If he was in jail, who the fuck let him go? 0.99

00:48:28.000 The guy sells kilos about a second. 0.99

00:48:30.000 Well, how did he get out?

00:48:32.000 I don't know.

00:48:33.000 I didn't want to ask too many questions.

00:48:34.000 I just wanted my money.

00:48:35.000 You want anything to learn about me? 0.95

00:48:36.000 I don't ask a lot of questions because if I don't like the answer, I'm going to get really fucking mad. 0.85

00:48:40.000 Right, right, right.

00:48:41.000 I just want the money.

00:48:43.000 But dealing with a guy like that and dealing with an organization like that, you had to know that, okay, now I've taken this giant step. 1.00

00:48:51.000 I'm involved with a serious murderer, cocaine-dealing motherfucker. 1.00

00:48:57.000 Like, this is... 1.00

00:48:57.000 It's horrible. 1.00

00:48:58.000 Yeah.

00:48:59.000 It's horrible.

00:49:00.000 It's horrible.

00:49:02.000 You sell your soul.

00:49:04.000 And, you know, what's to say other than this?

00:49:07.000 I got a little annoyed with them, right?

00:49:10.000 So I get in a...

00:49:11.000 I'm not living at home anymore.

00:49:14.000 My life is a disaster.

00:49:15.000 A complete disaster.

00:49:17.000 So I call my wife up. 1.00

00:49:18.000 I says, listen, things aren't going too good, hon. You want to get back together.

00:49:21.000 I want some stability in my life.

00:49:22.000 Right.

00:49:23.000 So she goes to me.

00:49:25.000 I'm okay from here.

00:49:26.000 You know?

00:49:28.000 How can you blame her?

00:49:29.000 She goes, I'm okay from here.

00:49:31.000 And so she goes, I go, listen, I'm going to the Dominican Republic, and I'm going with this woman I'm seeing at the time, who was a police officer, a sweetheart girl, anyway.

00:49:41.000 And I go, would you go with me instead?

00:49:46.000 She goes, take her, have a good time.

00:49:48.000 This is my... 1.00

00:49:49.000 My fucking wife telling me, take her! 1.00

00:49:52.000 Have a good time! 1.00

00:49:53.000 And when you get back, we'll talk.

00:49:55.000 Wow, what a good kid.

00:49:56.000 That's what I'm saying!

00:49:57.000 That's a good woman right there. 1.00

00:49:59.000 I ruin everything I touch.

00:50:00.000 Anyway, so...

00:50:00.000 Wow.

00:50:02.000 You know, sometimes, like, I think adversity makes some women better. 1.00

00:50:06.000 There's some women that like dealing with a, no offense, asshole husband. 1.00

00:50:11.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:50:11.000 Sometimes it just makes them a better person. 1.00

00:50:14.000 They learn how to roll with the blows better.

00:50:16.000 They learn a lot.

00:50:17.000 Because they're sitting back observing this whole disaster take place.

00:50:20.000 Because they're trying to stop you and you ain't listening.

00:50:22.000 Yeah.

00:50:22.000 So I go to the Dominican Republic.

00:50:25.000 Right.

00:50:26.000 And I'm on the plane and there's this guy with a beard, well-groomed.

00:50:34.000 He's making small talk with us, me and the girl.

00:50:37.000 And he's got some woman with him.

00:50:39.000 Look, I'm on vacation. 0.99

00:50:40.000 I'm not going here to fucking rob anybody or make any deals. 0.98

00:50:43.000 I'm going here to see my Dominican drug kingpin and see if we can get the money pipe flowing again. 1.00

00:50:48.000 I'm a little distraught here now.

00:50:49.000 My income's cut way down.

00:50:51.000 I'm only making about $2,000, $3,000 a week.

00:50:53.000 I was getting $6,000, $7,000 a week between his payoffs and all my other shakedowns going on.

00:50:57.000 I was doing good.

00:50:58.000 Now I'm getting a little tight. 0.98

00:50:59.000 I got fucking four homes. 0.99

00:51:01.000 I got a kid I want to put away for his college. 0.98

00:51:03.000 Sorry I never made that.

00:51:04.000 But anyway... 0.61

00:51:06.000 So there's a lot of things I got planned here, and he's fucking it up right now because he's hiding in Dominica. 0.92

00:51:10.000 Right. 0.93

00:51:11.000 So I'm going to see him.

00:51:12.000 So I get off the plane, and they're speaking Dominican to me, these people, and I can speak a little Spanish.

00:51:18.000 So I said, I'm talking to a cop in uniform with a sergeant stripes on, right?

00:51:31.000 Right.

00:51:31.000 The cab drivers start beating them up.

00:51:33.000 Right.

00:51:34.000 Start beating the copper?

00:51:35.000 Yeah, they're grabbing and pushing them, trying to knock them out of the way, because they want to take the ride.

00:51:39.000 And I want this guy, because he's thinking he's a cop, he's going to mediate for me and get me the right price.

00:51:43.000 Because I know they're going to look to take advantage of the gringo from America. 1.00

00:51:47.000 Anyway, I end up fucking paying hand and fist for this ride. 0.79

00:51:52.000 But in the interim, some guy steps over to me, the guy that was on the plane with me, and says, hey, how you doing? 0.62

00:51:58.000 What are you guys doing?

00:51:59.000 Where you going?

00:52:02.000 And I'm like, what, you here on vacation too?

00:52:04.000 And we're talking back and forth.

00:52:06.000 I'm going to see this buddy of mine, Diaz, he's a bodega owner in East New York.

00:52:10.000 And the guy's like, oh really?

00:52:11.000 Where's he live?

00:52:12.000 I go, I don't know, someplace in Laurel Mount or whatever I said.

00:52:16.000 Turns out it was the DEA. They fucking followed me on the plane. 0.99

00:52:20.000 How did you not automatically assume that? 0.99

00:52:23.000 Because I'm a sociable guy.

00:52:25.000 As soon as you said, I'm talking to this guy, I'm like, oh, Christ.

00:52:28.000 You saw the movie.

00:52:29.000 I guess that's what the problem is.

00:52:30.000 I'm looking at it.

00:52:32.000 Hindsight is 20, 20. And I'm fucking 27, 28 years old. 0.99

00:52:35.000 Maybe I'm more paranoid than you. 0.99

00:52:36.000 Well, I'm 48. If I was 28, I probably would have told him everything, too.

00:52:40.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:52:41.000 I'm down there.

00:52:41.000 I'm on vacation.

00:52:42.000 I'm there to have a good time.

00:52:43.000 And I'm just looking for a friendly face.

00:52:46.000 And he speaks Dominican.

00:52:49.000 And don't worry, I'll take care of you.

00:52:50.000 He says, I'll get you where you gotta go.

00:52:51.000 I said, great.

00:52:52.000 The DEIA guy says, I'll get you where you wanna go? 0.99

00:52:54.000 No, it was fucking DEA. Oh, fucking Christ. 1.00

00:52:57.000 So anyway, we end up in the car. 0.99

00:52:59.000 We get all the way to El Casa de Campo.

00:53:01.000 I think he took three different ways to get there.

00:53:03.000 So we finally get there.

00:53:04.000 And they put us in his house with four different couples.

00:53:09.000 What? 1.00

00:53:09.000 Like we're sharing a fucking house with somebody now. 1.00

00:53:11.000 Okay. 0.99

00:53:12.000 No one's there.

00:53:13.000 Who are these other people?

00:53:14.000 I don't know them.

00:53:15.000 Okay.

00:53:16.000 I want a lover's retreat for the weekend.

00:53:18.000 Right.

00:53:19.000 And they got me in a house.

00:53:20.000 Like for people who want to go camping and hang out together and sweat or something.

00:53:22.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:53:23.000 So I look around and I go, there's four other couples in this fucking house. 0.99

00:53:28.000 Like, I'm sharing a kitchen. 0.99

00:53:30.000 I'm sharing this.

00:53:30.000 I'm like, I'm not here for this.

00:53:32.000 Right.

00:53:32.000 So they drive us back to...

00:53:35.000 I said, no, get me out of here.

00:53:37.000 So now they drive us back to this little retreat right by the beach.

00:53:40.000 Get in there.

00:53:40.000 Everything's good.

00:53:41.000 Have a nice time.

00:53:43.000 And I'm calling at them every night.

00:53:45.000 I'm in your country, bro.

00:53:46.000 Do you see how I'm here, Joe?

00:53:48.000 I'm in LA, Joe.

00:53:49.000 I live in Long Island.

00:53:50.000 I'm here. 0.99

00:53:51.000 I don't fuck around. 1.00

00:53:52.000 I'm coming, I'm coming, right? 1.00

00:53:53.000 So I tell Diaz, I'm here.

00:53:55.000 He goes, his wife, he won't answer the phone. 0.59

00:53:57.000 His wife says, he's playing basketball.

00:53:59.000 Now, if you saw Diaz in the film, he's 5'3".

00:54:01.000 I know maybe he's shorter than 5'3", but he's cute.

00:54:03.000 He's 5'3 and cute.

00:54:05.000 So I go, okay.

00:54:07.000 That's 1030 at night.

00:54:08.000 I heard Prince is really good at basketball.

00:54:10.000 What?

00:54:11.000 Does he use his lips?

00:54:12.000 Charlie Murphy talked about it.

00:54:16.000 So I'm calling him every day and every night.

00:54:18.000 Now I'm a little annoyed.

00:54:19.000 I'm in your country.

00:54:20.000 I'm here.

00:54:21.000 Show respect.

00:54:22.000 Show up.

00:54:22.000 Right?

00:54:23.000 Right. 0.99

00:54:23.000 Plus the fact that you owe me fucking like $14,000 right now. 0.99

00:54:26.000 I'm getting a little nervous. 0.98

00:54:28.000 Maybe more.

00:54:29.000 Three weeks, four weeks pay.

00:54:31.000 I'm talking about myself, you know?

00:54:33.000 Right.

00:54:33.000 So I'm a little annoyed.

00:54:34.000 But I'm spending $1,000, $1,500 to come see you for a reason.

00:54:37.000 Actually $4,000 by the time I figured the trip out. 1.00

00:54:39.000 Fuck it. 1.00

00:54:40.000 Anyway, so... 1.00

00:54:41.000 He's playing basketball.

00:54:44.000 It's midnight. 1.00

00:54:44.000 I call his fucking house. 1.00

00:54:45.000 Now I'm mad. 1.00

00:54:46.000 Midnight, I'm bringing this fucking phone. 1.00

00:54:48.000 His wife answers the phone at midnight. 1.00

00:54:49.000 Mike, he's playing basketball. 0.99

00:54:50.000 I said, you gotta be fucking kidding me. 0.99

00:54:52.000 It's midnight! 0.99

00:54:53.000 He's 5'3".

00:54:54.000 How much basketball could he possibly be playing?

00:54:56.000 I'm in his country. 0.99

00:54:57.000 I said, this is fucking disrespectful. 0.99

00:54:58.000 Tell him I said that. 1.00

00:55:00.000 I don't know if you're going to have someone hit me, kill me. 1.00

00:55:02.000 I don't fucking know. 1.00

00:55:03.000 I'm pissed. 0.99

00:55:03.000 At this point, who cares, right? 0.99

00:55:05.000 Anyway, we turn around, we leave.

00:55:07.000 We're getting ready to get on the plane.

00:55:09.000 About an hour before the plane, I'm staying in El Emperador Hotel in the center of Santo Domingo, and there's a casino downstairs. 0.97

00:55:17.000 I love to fucking gamble, right?

00:55:18.000 Atlantic City, every time we hit a big load, we hit Atlantic City. 0.99

00:55:20.000 So I'm in the casino.

00:55:21.000 The lights go out in the casino.

00:55:23.000 I got like 20 minutes.

00:55:25.000 I put American money and Dominican money.

00:55:27.000 I use American.

00:55:28.000 I hit them for like six, eight hundred large, right?

00:55:30.000 In like 10 minutes. 0.99

00:55:31.000 They want to stab me. 0.70

00:55:33.000 They don't want to let me leave. 0.70

00:55:34.000 They're trying to hold me feet there. 0.99

00:55:35.000 I got to catch a fucking plane like... 0.99

00:55:38.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:55:38.000 It's a 40 minute ride from where I am, so I gotta get going now. 0.99

00:55:42.000 They're like, you're cashing in?

00:55:43.000 I go, yeah, let me go.

00:55:44.000 They got flashlights on the table because the lights go out like every hour or two.

00:55:48.000 They go out for like 15 minutes.

00:55:49.000 The casino's not, yeah, back then they did.

00:55:51.000 So they stand here with flashlights making sure everybody's money's not getting stolen or robbed from them.

00:55:55.000 I cash out and I leave, get on the plane and come back home.

00:55:58.000 So I get home.

00:55:59.000 On the way home, I get strip searched in the airport.

00:56:01.000 Now, you gotta be kidding me.

00:56:03.000 Coming from the Dominican Republic, there's nothing but packages with people with ropes and cardboard boxes. 1.00

00:56:07.000 Right.

00:56:08.000 I got luggage, like real luggage, you know? 0.99

00:56:10.000 These people have stamps on the side, yayo, on the fucking side of their boxes coming in, right? 1.00

00:56:16.000 Women have their thighs cut open so they can stuff packages of fucking coke in their thighs, right? 1.00

00:56:21.000 But I'm coming in with my little bag and my little guinea tea, whatever the fuck I'm wearing, coming from Dominica, and I'm getting strip searched in the airport. 1.00

00:56:29.000 So I'm looking around and I'm saying, this is fucking some setup. 0.98

00:56:32.000 Anyway, it's a setup. 0.98

00:56:33.000 Right.

00:56:34.000 Now Mike Dowd is finally waking up, you know?

00:56:36.000 Right. 1.00

00:56:37.000 And I go, it's that fucking Tromboli. 0.99

00:56:39.000 I didn't know his name. 0.99

00:56:40.000 I thought it said Trattbaum. 0.99

00:56:41.000 His name is fucking Tromboli. 1.00

00:56:42.000 I go, it's that fucking Trattbaum. 1.00

00:56:43.000 I know it is. 1.00

00:56:44.000 Anyway.

00:56:45.000 Gets strip-searched.

00:56:46.000 She gets cavity-searched.

00:56:48.000 I broke up with her on the plane.

00:56:51.000 On the plane?

00:56:51.000 Yeah, on the way back.

00:56:53.000 My wife said, okay, go have fun, come back, we'll talk. 0.97

00:56:55.000 Right.

00:56:56.000 So on the way back, you're like, look, this ain't gonna work out.

00:56:59.000 Yeah, but, you know.

00:57:00.000 I'm going back to my wife.

00:57:01.000 I'm going home where I belong.

00:57:02.000 Right.

00:57:04.000 Anyway, so, yeah, she's distraught.

00:57:07.000 Now she's getting bent off. 1.00

00:57:08.000 I just fucked up, and now these people are fucking her, you know? 1.00

00:57:12.000 So it's horrible. 1.00

00:57:13.000 I mean, we're laughing because, you know, life is, you know, horrible, you know?

00:57:17.000 Well, after the fact.

00:57:19.000 After the fact.

00:57:19.000 Right, exactly.

00:57:21.000 Anyway, so we get home, and whatever, we do our last deeds, and outside the fucking sub. 0.98

00:57:26.000 I didn't want to tell her. 0.99

00:57:26.000 Someone was outside fucking taking our license plate numbers down. 0.99

00:57:30.000 They had flashlights on the inspection stickers for our cars. 0.99

00:57:34.000 Eternal Affairs was outside, you know, marking the locations and the times and everything else that I was at the house.

00:57:39.000 I didn't want to tell her.

00:57:39.000 I'm a spooker.

00:57:41.000 So anyway, a week goes by, two weeks go by, whatever it was.

00:57:44.000 Finally, I'm at Barron's shop, Autosound City, where this whole thing basically centers around.

00:57:50.000 And Adam's there. 1.00

00:57:54.000 And I want to fucking, I don't know if I'm going to bite him, kick him, hug him, or stab him. 1.00

00:57:58.000 I'm fucking, I want to kill him. 1.00

00:57:59.000 Right. 1.00

00:58:02.000 Mike, what the fuck? 1.00

00:58:03.000 I was in your country. 1.00

00:58:03.000 What the fuck is wrong with you? 1.00

00:58:04.000 He goes, the DEA had your phones while you were in Dominican Republic. 1.00

00:58:09.000 He said, they tapped you, they followed you. 0.99

00:58:11.000 He said, I was warned by the Dominican Police Department to stay the fuck away from you. 0.99

00:58:16.000 Wow. 0.99

00:58:17.000 You think he would have sent a pigeon or something?

00:58:20.000 Send me a message?

00:58:21.000 Well, he probably couldn't.

00:58:23.000 Probably couldn't trust anybody.

00:58:25.000 It's probably one of those situations where what can you do?

00:58:28.000 If you know that you're being tapped and you know that they're watching, it's probably best to just play basketball.

00:58:33.000 That's what he was doing!

00:58:34.000 Playing basketball all the time.

00:58:35.000 That's what you gotta do sometimes.

00:58:37.000 Just lay low and hope that he sees you.

00:58:40.000 It makes sense.

00:58:41.000 Yeah, well, he's a smart guy.

00:58:43.000 How did you avoid getting killed?

00:58:45.000 That's what is most shocking, that you were involved with, I mean...

00:58:51.000 Listen, you go into a ring, you think you're coming out, right?

00:58:54.000 Yeah.

00:58:55.000 That's it. 0.99

00:58:57.000 Do you realize now, like, we're looking back on it, like, Jesus fucking Christ, like, I came really close. 0.97

00:59:03.000 Well, the more serious affront that I faced was that guy Cello that's mentioned in the documentary. 0.92

00:59:09.000 And why I say that is not because at any moment something could have gone wrong in any deal, you know? 0.97

00:59:14.000 Because at some point I began purchasing the coke from these guys because they couldn't constantly front your fucking kilos because they loved you, you know? 0.91

00:59:20.000 And I could no longer provide them protection because they took my guns and badge away. 0.98

00:59:25.000 Actually, I surrendered it.

00:59:27.000 I surrendered my gun and badge.

00:59:29.000 Why did you surrender it?

00:59:30.000 Because I was trying to get up the job on a psycho disability.

00:59:33.000 Psycho disability?

00:59:34.000 Yeah.

00:59:34.000 You know, I mean, it makes sense.

00:59:36.000 Right.

00:59:37.000 But they gave me my guns back.

00:59:39.000 This was what's ruinous.

00:59:40.000 They gave it to you back.

00:59:41.000 They go, no, we did an investigation.

00:59:43.000 We decided you're A-OK. You're good.

00:59:45.000 You're good. 1.00

00:59:45.000 And I'm reading the fucking papers. 1.00

00:59:47.000 You don't even know. 1.00

00:59:48.000 This is surreal.

00:59:49.000 I'm reading.

00:59:49.000 See this piece of paper I have here?

00:59:51.000 On this piece of paper.

00:59:53.000 There's a guy, he's about 90 years old.

00:59:55.000 This is no joke.

00:59:55.000 Not written on here, but there's a 90-year-old guy.

00:59:59.000 He's a head shrink in the whole New York City Police Department.

01:00:01.000 He's got this dossier in front of him.

01:00:03.000 He leaves it out, and I'm in there to get my gun and badge back.

01:00:09.000 He's 90, so he turns around.

01:00:10.000 He's got to go about, I don't know, 50 feet this way, open a locker, put a lock on it, take my gun and my badge and give it back to me.

01:00:18.000 So I'm sort of like doing a neck twist and curl, and it says...

01:00:23.000 Four or five separate allegations for selling narcotics out of a red Corvette.

01:00:28.000 And this guy's giving me back my gun and badge. 0.98

01:00:31.000 I'm like, this is fucking unbelievable. 0.90

01:00:34.000 This is the first time I ever saw officially in writing what they had me under investigation for. 0.97

01:00:39.000 There's 19 different fucking listed investigations, but four specifically at one period of time from, like, 86, 87, 88, specifically laid out week after week what they were looking for me for. 0.68

01:00:50.000 I'm like, and it's from a red Corvette, so I knew exactly what time that was.

01:00:53.000 I only had the red Corvette for a short period as well. 0.99

01:00:57.000 So I'm like, I can't believe they're giving my shit back. 0.98

01:00:59.000 I mean, this is, this is, now I know, I'm scared. 0.99

01:01:02.000 I don't, now, you know, what do you do? 1.00

01:01:04.000 Do you think that they were giving you shit back so that you could keep doing what you were doing to catch you on more shit? 0.99

01:01:10.000 Was that the idea behind it? 1.00

01:01:13.000 They don't ever want to catch you.

01:01:15.000 Really?

01:01:15.000 They don't ever want to catch you.

01:01:16.000 They want you to stop at that point.

01:01:18.000 So they don't want to catch you because if they catch you, it fucks with the whole department.

01:01:21.000 It's a black eye for everybody.

01:01:23.000 Which is true.

01:01:24.000 Listen, what I did was not good.

01:01:27.000 We know that.

01:01:27.000 We're just talking about it right now.

01:01:29.000 Do you know that, what was it, Tamir Rice, is that the kid's name, the 12-year-old kid that got shot?

01:01:34.000 They decided that it was okay, that there was nothing wrong, the investigation showed there was nothing wrong with the way the officer acted.

01:01:42.000 Got out of his car within two seconds, shot this 12-year-old kid who had a gun, fake gun, toy gun.

01:01:49.000 Joe, a lot of these things that you mentioned, I don't know all the facts on.

01:01:53.000 I'm not here to bash what cops do, because what they do is an impossible job, right?

01:01:58.000 The problem is that everybody makes mistakes, and when you're a cop and you make a mistake, it can cost somebody their life.

01:02:04.000 Yeah.

01:02:04.000 And that's the reality, you know?

01:02:07.000 And, you know, if you ask me, is there other solutions and other alternatives, I say absolutely.

01:02:12.000 You know, give the cop the body cameras.

01:02:14.000 Give him more body cameras.

01:02:15.000 Why not?

01:02:16.000 I mean, you know, everybody else is filming.

01:02:18.000 You might as well be the one filming it.

01:02:20.000 Yeah, the problem is this story is a totally unrelated story, but this story was on camera.

01:02:25.000 You know, I caught a little glimpse of some stuff, Joe.

01:02:29.000 I try not to pass judgment because I'm not the one there.

01:02:32.000 I've been in hundreds of...

01:02:33.000 Listen, in East New York, I pull my gun out every day.

01:02:37.000 I probably pull my gun out 15 times a day.

01:02:39.000 Really?

01:02:40.000 And I never shot anybody.

01:02:41.000 So you pulled your gun out to warn people?

01:02:43.000 You pulled your gun out to be careful?

01:02:44.000 Let them know that this is serious and that I need to know where your hands are right now. 0.99

01:02:50.000 Your hands are my threat.

01:02:51.000 Right. 1.00

01:02:52.000 And if I don't see your hands and you don't comply with me with your hands, then I may have to kill you. 1.00

01:02:56.000 Right. 1.00

01:02:57.000 May have to.

01:02:57.000 I don't want to.

01:02:58.000 Right.

01:02:58.000 But I'm letting you know.

01:02:59.000 It's amazing that you never shot anybody.

01:03:01.000 Yeah.

01:03:02.000 Close.

01:03:02.000 A couple of times.

01:03:03.000 I actually almost shot a cop once.

01:03:04.000 Really?

01:03:05.000 Yeah.

01:03:05.000 Undercover?

01:03:06.000 Yeah, undercover.

01:03:06.000 Jesus.

01:03:07.000 He was beating up some kids.

01:03:07.000 He had a gun on a kid.

01:03:09.000 And I told him to drop his gun.

01:03:11.000 He wouldn't drop his gun.

01:03:12.000 I was with Kenny that time.

01:03:13.000 He could probably tell the story as well because he remembers everything perfectly.

01:03:17.000 Do you talk to that guy anymore, Kenny?

01:03:19.000 Not really.

01:03:19.000 We don't have a good relationship.

01:03:22.000 Let's put it that way.

01:03:22.000 I would imagine that would be a strain on the friendship when a guy puts you away for 12 years.

01:03:27.000 It's not even that anymore.

01:03:28.000 It's more the way he's handled things since then.

01:03:31.000 He's just...

01:03:31.000 Listen, I don't begrudge him for what happened to his life.

01:03:34.000 He made decisions in his life based on more than just his own freedom, okay?

01:03:37.000 His wife's freedom was at stake as well, okay?

01:03:40.000 His children's...

01:03:42.000 Being put into a foster home possibility was there because, you know.

01:03:46.000 Right.

01:03:46.000 I understand.

01:03:48.000 Dory was directly involved in certain things, his wife. 0.98

01:03:50.000 You two together on a podcast would be fucking epic. 0.98

01:03:54.000 Well, we tried. 0.97

01:03:55.000 A lot of these we couldn't do together.

01:03:56.000 Why?

01:03:57.000 We worked on a lot of these.

01:03:58.000 We wouldn't sit in the same room.

01:03:59.000 Listen, because I really don't want to give him the credibility that he does not deserve because he continually...

01:04:06.000 We're at odds over certain things.

01:04:08.000 Aspects of the story?

01:04:09.000 Certain aspects of the story. 0.99

01:04:10.000 And when I confront him and he just says, well, you're a liar. 0.53

01:04:15.000 What do I have to lie about? 1.00

01:04:17.000 What do I have to fucking lie about? 0.99

01:04:19.000 I'm the guy who did the fucking time. 0.99

01:04:21.000 I have nothing to lie about. 0.98

01:04:22.000 If you remember things differently than I, that's fine.

01:04:25.000 But the reality is, I'm just going to touch on it briefly. 0.99

01:04:31.000 This kidnapping slash murder slash whatever, execution slash bullshit. 0.99

01:04:35.000 The thing at the end. 1.00

01:04:36.000 We weren't going to the woman's house to do that, okay? 1.00

01:04:39.000 We were going to the woman's house to survey her house.

01:04:43.000 He insisted that we walk up to the front door. 1.00

01:04:45.000 I said, what are you out of your fucking mind? 0.99

01:04:46.000 That's not even in the plan. 1.00

01:04:47.000 That doesn't make the tapes.

01:04:51.000 That's not even in the plan, Kenny.

01:04:53.000 Yeah, well, I'm not driving all the way here and not going up to the front door.

01:04:57.000 First of all, that shouldn't even be a discussion because we're not going up to the front door.

01:05:00.000 There's other people involved in this that are going to go in and come out.

01:05:02.000 But didn't they get you on recording saying that you had to get rid of this woman? 0.95

01:05:08.000 He said that.

01:05:09.000 What you don't hear is what he's saying for 20 minutes, 30 minutes.

01:05:13.000 Saying, they're going to execute him, Mike.

01:05:14.000 You know they're going to execute him.

01:05:15.000 I'm like, who?

01:05:15.000 Who's going to execute him?

01:05:16.000 The Colombians, he keeps saying. 0.64

01:05:18.000 Right.

01:05:18.000 First of all, where are the Colombians?

01:05:20.000 Second of all, they're not here.

01:05:21.000 And third of all, whatever.

01:05:22.000 We throw, whatever.

01:05:24.000 I want to get past the conversation.

01:05:26.000 Right. 0.99

01:05:26.000 Because I sense he's fucking taping it. 0.99

01:05:28.000 You sensed that? 0.99

01:05:29.000 I've asked him numerous times, Kenny, you're wearing a wire.

01:05:32.000 Come on, just tell me the truth.

01:05:33.000 Was this before he was wearing a wire?

01:05:35.000 You thought he was wearing a wire?

01:05:36.000 No, while he was wearing a wire. 1.00

01:05:37.000 So you knew when shit was going down. 0.98

01:05:40.000 It wasn't making sense, so I kept saying him, you're wearing a wire. 0.99

01:05:43.000 No, no, Mike, I would never do that to you.

01:05:44.000 I'm like, I want to believe this guy.

01:05:46.000 I want to believe him. 0.99

01:05:47.000 It should be one of those things, remember in those old stupid TV shows where you'd have to say, you'd ask a cop, are you a cop? 0.99

01:05:53.000 And then he would have to tell you. 0.99

01:05:56.000 Remember that? 0.99

01:05:57.000 People fucking believe that, which is goddamn hilarious. 0.99

01:06:01.000 You know, if a cop, if you just ask him if he's a cop, they're going to tell you. 1.00

01:06:05.000 What kind of fucking fantasy land are you living in? 0.99

01:06:08.000 Good luck with that one. 1.00

01:06:10.000 That's goddamn hilarious. 0.98

01:06:11.000 Actually, a cop is allowed to do a bump if he has to stay alive. 1.00

01:06:14.000 Well, they're allowed in Hawaii to fuck prostitutes. 1.00

01:06:16.000 Well, that's good. 1.00

01:06:17.000 I'm on a job there.

01:06:20.000 Did you hear that?

01:06:21.000 That's true.

01:06:22.000 It's a recent thing. 0.82

01:06:22.000 They made a recent decision that police officers in Hawaii are allowed to have sex with prostitutes on the job as a part of an ongoing investigation. 0.82

01:06:31.000 Well, because they can't get enough on their own? 0.98

01:06:33.000 I mean, come on. 1.00

01:06:34.000 Well, because they have to find out things and the prostitutes won't trust them unless they fuck them. 1.00

01:06:40.000 You gotta fuck me. 1.00

01:06:41.000 And then we can talk. 1.00

01:06:42.000 Yeah, that's how they work.

01:06:43.000 It's intimacy.

01:06:44.000 Like I said, let's go there.

01:06:45.000 We'll open up our own private detective agency. 0.99

01:06:48.000 Well, undercover women wind up fucking drug dealers and stuff all the time, right? 1.00

01:06:52.000 It's a dark secret, isn't it? 0.99

01:06:54.000 Or at least it is in the movies.

01:06:55.000 Well, they could have gotten me pretty easily that way then, couldn't they?

01:06:57.000 Why didn't they do that?

01:06:58.000 Yeah, why did they send Kenny in there?

01:07:03.000 They could have sent any hot Latino broad in there. 1.00

01:07:05.000 Yeah, with a tape recorder in her pussy. 1.00

01:07:08.000 She just had to have it in the neighborhood, I would have been done. 1.00

01:07:11.000 Just send in one of those little dime packages. 0.98

01:07:14.000 Well, the tape recorders back then, though, were fucking giant, monstrous, VCR-looking things. 0.97

01:07:19.000 Could you imagine? 0.98

01:07:19.000 And I didn't check them because I was too proud. 0.98

01:07:22.000 Like, you wouldn't do that to me.

01:07:23.000 And my brother says to me, Mike, did you toss them?

01:07:26.000 I go, yeah.

01:07:27.000 I didn't.

01:07:28.000 Wow.

01:07:29.000 And thank God I didn't that day, because, well, thank God.

01:07:31.000 I mean, what's the difference?

01:07:33.000 I'm doing my time either way, you know?

01:07:34.000 Right, but what if you'd killed him or something, or what if you guys had gotten...

01:07:37.000 That would have been messy. 0.89

01:07:38.000 In other words, thank God I didn't find out.

01:07:40.000 Yeah, well, anything could have happened, and it would have been assault and violence involved.

01:07:45.000 Right, right.

01:07:45.000 Now it would have been another level to something else, and you threatened a witness.

01:07:49.000 How the fuck did I know he was a witness until a minute ago? 0.95

01:07:51.000 Right, exactly. 0.98

01:07:53.000 That's the sneaky thing about it.

01:07:54.000 Now, you went away for 12 years?

01:07:56.000 Well, I was sentenced to 14 years.

01:07:58.000 I took a plea agreement that was 10th to life.

01:08:01.000 Okay?

01:08:02.000 That's the plea?

01:08:03.000 That was the plea.

01:08:03.000 So how does that work when they say 10th to life?

01:08:05.000 They offered me 24 to 30. That was my first offer.

01:08:09.000 I called my lawyer. 1.00

01:08:10.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:08:10.000 Did I kill somebody? 1.00

01:08:11.000 He goes, that's just the way the federal government is.

01:08:13.000 I said, that's nice.

01:08:15.000 So, 24 to 30 was my first offer.

01:08:17.000 Now, what pisses me off is, here's a guy, he doesn't realize what he just did to a guy who was eating in my house a couple weeks ago.

01:08:25.000 And now he doesn't realize that instead of just doing our time together, like just take the...

01:08:29.000 Let me backtrack a little bit, and we'll try to remember that, where we were.

01:08:33.000 When we were out on bail, Kenny had some options, as I did, to either Cooperate with the government and give everything up and just go on and do your married little bid in your life, whatever.

01:08:43.000 It might have not been too little.

01:08:44.000 It might have been more.

01:08:45.000 So I get off a shrimp boat trip, a job in Nicaragua.

01:08:51.000 To run a shrimp boat. 0.99

01:08:53.000 Who the fuck is offering you a shrimp boat? 1.00

01:08:55.000 The owner of the Astoria Hotel, Astoria Manor in Astoria, Queens, he's got a catering hall with a bunch of weddings. 1.00

01:09:05.000 And most weddings, they love to have shrimp at every wedding.

01:09:08.000 He has 11 rooms in the catering hall.

01:09:10.000 So he's got 11 people, sometimes twice a day, Filtering shrimp through his business.

01:09:15.000 So he says, Mike, you're going away for a long period of time.

01:09:18.000 He said, so I got an option for you.

01:09:19.000 I need a shrimp boat captain in Nicaragua.

01:09:21.000 You want to go?

01:09:21.000 I went, I'm in!

01:09:23.000 So, you know, I'm looking for anything to grab onto at that point in my life.

01:09:28.000 And I go home and I'm like, I give Kenny a call.

01:09:30.000 I said, Kenny, listen, I want to talk to you.

01:09:32.000 Mike, I don't know if we should talk.

01:09:34.000 I said, Kent, let's meet and talk.

01:09:36.000 So we have a conversation.

01:09:38.000 And he says, Mike, I got a pension.

01:09:40.000 I got a wife and a kid. 1.00

01:09:41.000 He says, I'm not giving that shit up to go shrimp. 0.99

01:09:42.000 If I have to do a little bid, I have to do it. 1.00

01:09:45.000 Fine.

01:09:46.000 He says, but I'm not giving it all up to go shrimp boat fishing in Nicaragua.

01:09:49.000 I said, okay.

01:09:50.000 Done.

01:09:50.000 Story done.

01:09:51.000 Case closed.

01:09:52.000 Done.

01:09:52.000 Never happened.

01:09:53.000 Okay.

01:09:54.000 Three, four days later, maybe less, two days later, the phone rings.

01:09:57.000 Mike, I'm interested in going fishing.

01:09:59.000 I go, what are you talking about, fishing?

01:10:00.000 So he comes to see me. 0.99

01:10:02.000 He says, uh, now, I see the fucking DEA over here. 0.99

01:10:05.000 I see something over here. 0.99

01:10:06.000 I see everybody.

01:10:06.000 I'm being followed.

01:10:09.000 I go, what are you talking about?

01:10:10.000 He goes, I want to go fishing.

01:10:12.000 Remember the fishing trip you were talking about last week?

01:10:14.000 I go, what fishing trip? 0.97

01:10:15.000 Fucking, you know, the Marlin fishing trip? 0.99

01:10:17.000 What fishing trip? 1.00

01:10:18.000 He won't say the word.

01:10:21.000 Shrimp boat in Nicaragua.

01:10:22.000 Why?

01:10:24.000 It has to come from me.

01:10:26.000 Why does it have to come from you?

01:10:27.000 Because if you're working for the government at this point, you can't be the one that entraps the person.

01:10:33.000 Oh.

01:10:33.000 It has to come out of my mouth.

01:10:35.000 So him saying the fishing trip.

01:10:38.000 Let's go fishing.

01:10:38.000 Yeah.

01:10:39.000 Right.

01:10:39.000 So he wants you to say, because he wants you to say, I'm going to skip the country.

01:10:43.000 Correct.

01:10:44.000 He wants me to say, you mean, like I do.

01:10:47.000 Right.

01:10:47.000 The shrimp boat job in Nicaragua?

01:10:49.000 Right.

01:10:49.000 Yes!

01:10:50.000 He goes, yes! 1.00

01:10:50.000 He jumps up out of his fucking chair. 1.00

01:10:51.000 I'm like, look, what the fuck are you so excited about? 1.00

01:10:53.000 Now I know something's wrong. 1.00

01:10:55.000 What a shitty actor. 1.00

01:10:57.000 Yeah, he's ridiculous. 1.00

01:10:58.000 So now I go, okay, something's not right. 1.00

01:11:02.000 And I start finding the fucking setup everywhere around me. 0.96

01:11:05.000 And he's opening the window in his car. 0.99

01:11:06.000 His hair's perfectly quaffed.

01:11:08.000 I said, Kenny, what are you opening the window for? 1.00

01:11:09.000 The fucking air conditioner's on. 1.00

01:11:10.000 It's 95 degrees out. 1.00

01:11:11.000 Your hair's going to get messed.

01:11:13.000 Oh, no, no.

01:11:14.000 Anyway, he disputes that.

01:11:16.000 Why would he dispute that?

01:11:17.000 Anyway, so...

01:11:18.000 So now...

01:11:23.000 Think of what just happened.

01:11:26.000 He's now come back to me and says he wants to go on the shrimp boat trip.

01:11:30.000 He goes home.

01:11:31.000 I go home.

01:11:31.000 I said, listen, it's a good idea.

01:11:33.000 We need a half a million plus because I can't leave my family broke. 0.98

01:11:35.000 All their houses are up for fucking bail. 0.97

01:11:37.000 Two days go by and some Colombian calls me up and says, I need a half a million dollars of this. 0.98

01:11:43.000 I need a half a million dollars recovered and 10 kilos from this woman's house in Jamaica. 1.00

01:11:48.000 Same number.

01:11:49.000 Just what I need.

01:11:50.000 Exactly what I needed.

01:11:50.000 Right.

01:11:52.000 It's suspicious.

01:11:55.000 I'm a little suspicious as well, but I can't believe God is good, I'm saying.

01:11:58.000 He's great.

01:11:59.000 Look what he's doing for me.

01:11:59.000 So you really believed it?

01:12:01.000 They played it off well.

01:12:03.000 So, and I'm looking for anything.

01:12:05.000 I don't know.

01:12:05.000 I'm desperate.

01:12:06.000 Are you doing coke at the time?

01:12:07.000 No.

01:12:08.000 No.

01:12:08.000 Okay.

01:12:08.000 Six weeks clean.

01:12:09.000 Wow.

01:12:10.000 I was in jail.

01:12:11.000 So, I was out on bail.

01:12:12.000 And no one would sell anything to me.

01:12:14.000 So I tried to pick up a package.

01:12:15.000 My own dealer wouldn't sell it to me.

01:12:17.000 Wow.

01:12:18.000 That's when times are tough.

01:12:19.000 Yeah.

01:12:20.000 When a coke dealer won't sell you blow.

01:12:23.000 When my own guy.

01:12:23.000 My own guy.

01:12:25.000 Too hot, man.

01:12:27.000 I'm not gonna go to Yale.

01:12:29.000 Yeah, I'm not going to Yale.

01:12:30.000 So I end up in a discussion with him, and this thing presents itself, and he's all over it now.

01:12:39.000 Yeah, I want to go.

01:12:40.000 I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, Kenny, you didn't want to go before.

01:12:42.000 He says, yeah, but now I want to go. 0.99

01:12:44.000 Like, he's, like, fucking screaming it. 0.97

01:12:46.000 I'm like, okay, you know, it sounds a little odd. 0.99

01:12:49.000 Are you wearing a wire?

01:12:49.000 No!

01:12:50.000 Okay, you know, just checking.

01:12:52.000 Casual.

01:12:52.000 Just checking.

01:12:54.000 Anyway, so on and on and on we went, and eventually this thing was sad, and this thing turned into what it turned into.

01:13:00.000 And, you know, it is what it is.

01:13:03.000 Well, you dispute it in the film.

01:13:05.000 You say that you...

01:13:07.000 Yeah, but I dispute the premise of the beginning of the whole process.

01:13:11.000 With the woman, there's a controversy back and forth. 1.00

01:13:13.000 I never saw her.

01:13:14.000 Never met her.

01:13:15.000 Never intended to touch her.

01:13:16.000 Myself, personally, ever. 0.99

01:13:18.000 Now, how she was going to get in my car, bagged and gagged and whatever, I don't fucking know. 1.00

01:13:23.000 Okay? 0.89

01:13:24.000 But the fact is that we weren't supposed to do anything to her.

01:13:27.000 So, for people who listen to this that haven't seen the documentary, there was...

01:13:33.000 It was sort of like a last thing that you guys could do to make a shitload of money.

01:13:39.000 And it involved kidnapping a woman who would eventually be murdered.

01:13:43.000 Well, this is in the film, right?

01:13:44.000 It's horrible.

01:13:45.000 Yeah.

01:13:47.000 All these eventuals are nothing that I never had anything to do with the eventuals.

01:13:52.000 I never knew them.

01:13:53.000 He knew them. 0.98

01:13:54.000 And they spoke Spanish, so how the fuck did Kenny know what they were saying? 0.98

01:13:57.000 Right. 0.98

01:13:57.000 I don't know. 0.98

01:13:58.000 Maybe the government translated it for him.

01:14:00.000 But what part, if any, were you playing in or anticipating playing?

01:14:04.000 I was going to take the money from a woman's house. 1.00

01:14:06.000 Come on.

01:14:07.000 You can do that in your sleep.

01:14:08.000 Take the money from a woman's house and the drugs and go home. 0.95

01:14:11.000 Split it up with the Colombians and go. 1.00

01:14:14.000 Somehow along the way, whether it be the government fishing, Kenny fishing, someone pushing, this woman was going to go from being... 1.00

01:14:21.000 Money that wasn't hers.

01:14:22.000 It was a drug dealer's money that was killed.

01:14:24.000 Right.

01:14:24.000 Her husband was a Dominican drug dealer who was killed.

01:14:28.000 By whom?

01:14:28.000 I can't answer that question.

01:14:29.000 But the fact is that he had a half a million in cash in that home, according to the setup people, and 10 kilos.

01:14:36.000 And we can take it all and split it down the middle, and you'll have your money, you can leave the country.

01:14:39.000 I mean, very convenient.

01:14:41.000 Very.

01:14:42.000 Yeah, very convenient. 1.00

01:14:43.000 What an asshole I was, right? 1.00

01:14:45.000 Wow, what a crazy scenario though. 1.00

01:14:48.000 So it went from shaking down street drug dealers for a couple hundred a day to, you know.

01:14:54.000 But see, that's like an attempted murder.

01:14:58.000 That's a whole conspiracy.

01:15:00.000 Were you trying to get me a new charge?

01:15:01.000 No, no, no, I'm not.

01:15:01.000 But I'm saying they obviously couldn't pin that on you.

01:15:04.000 Otherwise, you would have went away for a lot longer than 12 years.

01:15:06.000 So you answered the question.

01:15:08.000 But it seems like that was something they were trying to concoct to make everything a lot more severe.

01:15:14.000 Correct.

01:15:14.000 Okay.

01:15:15.000 Now, when you go away, think about how many years you were involved in actual crime.

01:15:22.000 How many years do you think you were involved as a cop committing crime?

01:15:26.000 Well, every time you put the uniform on and you don't do the right thing, you're pretty much committing a crime.

01:15:29.000 Right.

01:15:30.000 And you have a gun on you.

01:15:30.000 So how many years is that about?

01:15:32.000 I'd say a solid five.

01:15:33.000 A solid five years.

01:15:35.000 So it's not that bad to go away for 12 for a solid five years.

01:15:39.000 No, no.

01:15:39.000 I mean, you want to minimize my sentence now?

01:15:40.000 I mean, every day is a long fucking day. 0.99

01:15:42.000 Come on. 0.98

01:15:42.000 I'm sure, but I was going to bring that up, too. 0.98

01:15:44.000 But what is it like when you go in there?

01:15:46.000 I mean, first of all, you're a cop.

01:15:48.000 They know you're a cop.

01:15:50.000 Yeah.

01:15:50.000 Everywhere I went, they knew.

01:15:51.000 What is that like?

01:15:52.000 I was the first person they knew on the compound when I hit the compound.

01:15:54.000 And what is that?

01:15:55.000 It's like having 1,800 men times two, because they each got two eyes, most of them, not all.

01:16:01.000 So you have 3,600 eyes on you, never mind the 600 staff in there watching you 24-7.

01:16:07.000 Watching you, threatening you?

01:16:10.000 You know, you eyeball someone that could be a threat, right?

01:16:12.000 You're in a fight game. 1.00

01:16:14.000 Eyes can mean either compliance, you know, or fuck you, and then it's up to you. 1.00

01:16:19.000 How do you want to handle this? 1.00

01:16:20.000 But did they think of you as almost one of them because you were also involved in crime?

01:16:26.000 There was a strange relationship.

01:16:29.000 Many of them wished that they were me because they would love to have had that power. 0.99

01:16:33.000 I mean, dozens, if not hundreds, have said, I wish I was a fucking cop. 0.99

01:16:37.000 All right? 0.99

01:16:38.000 I mean, really?

01:16:39.000 Do you really?

01:16:40.000 It's like having superpowers if you were a criminal.

01:16:43.000 Well, if you've seen a film, it felt like you were God.

01:16:45.000 Right.

01:16:46.000 You could do anything you wanted.

01:16:48.000 It was horrible.

01:16:49.000 Well, that's what was my point about having that kind of power.

01:16:54.000 In prison, you have none.

01:16:55.000 Right.

01:16:56.000 You're the least one they want.

01:16:57.000 You and the child, Melissa.

01:16:59.000 So is that how they lump you in?

01:17:01.000 Right in the same category.

01:17:02.000 Wow.

01:17:02.000 So basically, when they say, I walked the yard by myself for 12, other than Mickey Monday, who came up to me and said hello to me.

01:17:08.000 Who is Mickey Monday?

01:17:10.000 He's that blonde-haired guy from the Cocaine Cowboys. 0.98

01:17:12.000 You ever see that? 1.00

01:17:12.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

01:17:13.000 Yeah, he's my buddy. 1.00

01:17:15.000 That's my friend Billy Corbin's documentary.

01:17:18.000 Both of them.

01:17:18.000 Cooking Cowboys 1 and 2. That guy's your buddy?

01:17:20.000 You went to jail with him?

01:17:21.000 I got a picture of him. 0.99

01:17:22.000 The two of you together must have had some fucking great stories. 0.96

01:17:26.000 We were together last week in Miami. 0.99

01:17:27.000 Jesus Christ. 0.99

01:17:28.000 I was in Miami in his favorite fucking greasy spoon spot down there. 1.00

01:17:31.000 Oh, he's out too? 0.99

01:17:32.000 Yeah.

01:17:32.000 Beautiful.

01:17:33.000 Yeah.

01:17:34.000 I was sitting there with this guy, John Cardillo, who does a radio show on iHeartRadio down there out of Fort Lauderdale.

01:17:42.000 He and I, he's a retired cop, and he's a great host on the show, and we're talking about maybe doing something together, too, as well.

01:17:49.000 Wow.

01:17:50.000 The Good Cop Bed Cop show.

01:17:51.000 That sounds like a great idea. 0.99

01:17:53.000 I'll be fucking pissing. 1.00

01:17:53.000 First of all, if you don't have a podcast, there's a fucking crime being committed right now. 1.00

01:17:58.000 I don't know how to do one. 1.00

01:17:59.000 It's fucking easy as shit. 1.00

01:18:01.000 Jamie will tell you. 1.00

01:18:02.000 It's easy.

01:18:03.000 I don't know.

01:18:04.000 He's sweating over there.

01:18:05.000 Well, this is a way more complex setup than anybody really needs.

01:18:08.000 I mean, we only do it this way because it's kind of fun to have video of it.

01:18:10.000 Are we live streaming?

01:18:11.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:18:12.000 Oh, we're live right now?

01:18:12.000 Yeah, we're live right now.

01:18:13.000 Yeah.

01:18:14.000 How's my hair look?

01:18:15.000 You look great.

01:18:15.000 How's mine look?

01:18:16.000 Wonderful.

01:18:17.000 It's easy.

01:18:18.000 I wish I'd done this when I was 20. But the point is, like, all you need is a little mp3 recorder.

01:18:25.000 If we had a little recorder that's, like, the size of a cell phone, like this, like, I've done a bunch of them.

01:18:31.000 Almost the size of Kenny's recorder!

01:18:33.000 Well, no, he wishes he had something this small back then.

01:18:36.000 But I've done a few of them just with my iPhone.

01:18:38.000 We just...

01:18:39.000 Set it down on a table, and the microphones in these things are really good.

01:18:42.000 You could do it, and then you upload it. 0.99

01:18:44.000 It's fucking easy as shit. 0.99

01:18:46.000 Yeah, but I need someone like you to feed off of. 1.00

01:18:48.000 Yeah, but you just find somebody.

01:18:52.000 Just find somebody in the street.

01:18:54.000 I should get one of the guys that I shook down.

01:18:56.000 You could do that.

01:18:57.000 Funny story, I'm at one of the premieres.

01:19:00.000 I did a lot of those.

01:19:01.000 That's a great idea, actually. 0.97

01:19:03.000 I'm at a premiere, and I see these guys come walking up, and they look fucking, they look a little haggard, you know? 0.65

01:19:08.000 And they're looking at me with that, like, cheapest, like, look, and like, you know, I'm like a semi-star of the thing, so I gotta look all proper and everything, and looking, you know, all ever-dite. 0.89

01:19:20.000 And up comes these guys, they look like they're from the street, you know?

01:19:23.000 Right.

01:19:23.000 So they got their hats on sideways, half their teeth are missing, and the guy sticks his hand out and he goes, Mike, I go, yeah, who are you?

01:19:29.000 He goes, I used to hang out on Picking in fucking, Picking in Norwood or Picking in, not Norwood because Norwood doesn't mean it, but Picking in Crescent and Picking in Chestnut.

01:19:41.000 I'm like, okay. 0.92

01:19:42.000 He goes, yeah, you used to shake me down.

01:19:44.000 I'm like, oh, really?

01:19:45.000 Oh, Jesus. 0.99

01:19:46.000 But we both made it like it was like almost a fucking initial bond that you could you couldn't imagine like right like those I did my bid whatever he did You know 30 fucking years later. 0.99

01:19:56.000 He's shaking my hand at a movie premiere thing. 0.98

01:19:59.000 It was I said he was like We're proud of you?

01:20:02.000 I don't know if that makes sense.

01:20:04.000 We're proud of you.

01:20:05.000 You lived through it.

01:20:06.000 Look at us.

01:20:07.000 Only like 10 people lived through it.

01:20:09.000 Those three and me and a couple other people.

01:20:12.000 So, in a sense, well, you're both survivors, in a sense.

01:20:16.000 Right.

01:20:16.000 And there was respect.

01:20:17.000 Yeah.

01:20:17.000 There was respect.

01:20:18.000 It was nice to see.

01:20:19.000 That's bizarre, right?

01:20:20.000 I tell you, a couple cops came up to me.

01:20:21.000 They really didn't like it, but they didn't like it.

01:20:24.000 But they came up and hugged me and said, hey, man, you made it.

01:20:26.000 Go on with your life.

01:20:27.000 Which really, to me, I have to be honest with you.

01:20:30.000 You're still a cop in your heart.

01:20:31.000 You're a fighter.

01:20:32.000 You're a fighter in your heart.

01:20:33.000 You know that.

01:20:34.000 It's respect.

01:20:37.000 What a strained relationship between you and the other cops.

01:20:40.000 Well, you give up your whole community. 1.00

01:20:42.000 You fuck up like I did. 1.00

01:20:45.000 And my whole family is involved in it. 1.00

01:20:47.000 The police department, the fire department.

01:20:49.000 So you destroyed your relationship with that whole community.

01:20:51.000 And that's how you grew up.

01:20:53.000 So I basically destroyed every fabric of who I am. 0.99

01:20:57.000 But then again, they have to watch that documentary and be fucking entertained. 0.98

01:21:01.000 They loved it. 0.98

01:21:02.000 I've had people come to me.

01:21:03.000 No, listen.

01:21:04.000 It was back then.

01:21:05.000 Yeah.

01:21:05.000 So now they know.

01:21:06.000 And they know who I am as a human being.

01:21:07.000 I really mean good.

01:21:09.000 I don't always do good, but I do mean well.

01:21:11.000 Right.

01:21:12.000 Well, like I said, if I was 23 years old and I was living where you're living and doing that job, I probably would have been right there with you.

01:21:21.000 I probably would have.

01:21:23.000 You're one in a thousand that said the same exact words.

01:21:26.000 So is it some comfort?

01:21:27.000 Maybe it is.

01:21:28.000 There's some comfort in that.

01:21:30.000 I used to have this different look about people.

01:21:33.000 I used to say, well, you're responsible for your own actions, which in a sense you absolutely are.

01:21:38.000 But there's also this concept that All of your own actions and whoever you are in a lot of ways are determined by your environment, by how you grew up, by what situation you find yourself in, by the circumstances you find yourself in in that situation.

01:21:55.000 Yeah.

01:21:56.000 And there's a lot going on there.

01:21:58.000 And then there's the fun.

01:22:01.000 There was a lot of fun. 1.00

01:22:01.000 That's a fucking problem! 1.00

01:22:03.000 I have to say. 1.00

01:22:04.000 When I was watching that documentary, I was like, this guy looks like he's having a great fucking time. 0.97

01:22:08.000 I don't know if that's a good thing. 0.96

01:22:09.000 It's not a good thing.

01:22:11.000 It's not, but I did.

01:22:12.000 But here's the thing, right? 0.99

01:22:14.000 One of the things you alluded to is, like, who's bringing the fucking drugs into that community? 0.98

01:22:19.000 You know, who's bringing the drugs into the country? 0.99

01:22:21.000 And I hate to go all crazy conspiracy theory, but the reality is there were a bunch of rogue...

01:22:28.000 CIA, CIA agents were bringing it in.

01:22:31.000 A bunch of rogue agents.

01:22:32.000 With Ollie North's crew.

01:22:33.000 Yeah, I know. 1.00

01:22:33.000 Yeah, Ollie North's crew, the fucking... 1.00

01:22:35.000 The Mena Airport out of Arkansas, where Bill Clinton's family was involved. 0.99

01:22:39.000 I was in jail with his cousin.

01:22:41.000 Yeah, what was the guy that got killed?

01:22:43.000 Barry Seals.

01:22:44.000 Barry Seals was the pilot.

01:22:45.000 There's all these photographs of him with all these Colombian drug lords.

01:22:49.000 And this guy, he was murdered on his way to testify. 1.00

01:22:53.000 He had George Bush's phone number in his fucking pocket when he was killed. 1.00

01:22:58.000 There's a lot of fucking shit going on with this. 1.00

01:23:01.000 There's so much money involved in drugs. 1.00

01:23:04.000 That's why I'm for total...

01:23:08.000 Legalization.

01:23:09.000 Decriminalization of all narcotics.

01:23:11.000 Everything.

01:23:11.000 Because you make criminals out of people that are generally not criminals.

01:23:16.000 Yes.

01:23:17.000 It was just a lot of money.

01:23:18.000 I mean, a guy goes to school, becomes a stockbroker.

01:23:21.000 He finds out that the real money is in being a criminal.

01:23:24.000 Instead of making his 60, 70, or 100,000, he wants to make 6 million.

01:23:28.000 So he has to be a criminal.

01:23:30.000 That's a choice he made, though.

01:23:31.000 He made that choice.

01:23:33.000 Yes.

01:23:37.000 Yes.

01:23:52.000 Inadvertently does something, or they go out of their way to do something, for whatever the deriving reasons are.

01:23:58.000 So they're forever defined by that act.

01:24:00.000 Yes.

01:24:01.000 But that's not necessarily who someone is.

01:24:03.000 Well, people love to forever define people by that act, because they, in some way, Are very happy it's not them.

01:24:12.000 Right. 1.00

01:24:12.000 And so they want to say, you're a piece of shit forever. 1.00

01:24:15.000 I'll write you off forever. 1.00

01:24:16.000 Right. 1.00

01:24:16.000 How many people did what I did, got away with it, and are throwing fucking stones at me? 1.00

01:24:20.000 A lot. 0.99

01:24:21.000 Okay.

01:24:21.000 I'm sure.

01:24:22.000 Listen, go back into the histories from between, let's go 85 to 95. Uh-huh.

01:24:32.000 Call it ghetto precinct, because that's what it's called in the police world.

01:24:35.000 Every single ghetto precinct had a scandal very similar to mine, except maybe not to the depth, like you had initially said, like when I really got into the paying and straight out dealing with the guys. 0.72

01:24:46.000 Well, let's be honest.

01:24:47.000 You're an all-star.

01:24:48.000 You're an all-star in the world of corruption.

01:24:50.000 Thank you so much.

01:24:50.000 I appreciate that.

01:24:51.000 It's what it's like.

01:24:51.000 It's like, you know, there's guys that take it to the next level.

01:24:54.000 I mean, not everybody can be Ronda Rousey.

01:24:57.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:24:58.000 Not everybody can be John Jones.

01:24:59.000 You had her last night on TV. Guys take it to the next level, and you took it to the next level in the world of police corruption.

01:25:05.000 My mother and my children are quite proud of that.

01:25:09.000 But you know what I'm saying? 0.82

01:25:10.000 I mean, whenever you have any sort of an act, whether it's a guy who's a marijuana dealer or a guy who's a fucking bow hunter, you're going to have people that just take it to the ultimate. 0.91

01:25:21.000 They take it to the furthest extreme. 0.98

01:25:22.000 And that's what you did as a corrupt cop.

01:25:25.000 Yeah, I just found ways to continually get... 1.00

01:25:28.000 So when you say a guy like Serpico, you think he's a piece of shit or you think he's a... 0.99

01:25:33.000 Well, you know what, I have nothing personal against him. 1.00

01:25:35.000 I know, but you understand that...

01:25:36.000 I wouldn't hang out with him for any period of time.

01:25:39.000 But you kind of dabbled in that when you turned on the guy with the gold fans.

01:25:43.000 I found out that it wasn't good.

01:25:45.000 Quickly went back to being a criminal.

01:25:48.000 One, it paid better, and two, it was a lot more fun.

01:25:52.000 Now, when you go away, okay, and you're in that, what prison did you go to?

01:25:57.000 I was in several.

01:25:58.000 I started out in MCC, New York.

01:25:59.000 I did two years there waiting to be sentenced.

01:26:01.000 So that's a state?

01:26:03.000 It's all federal.

01:26:04.000 All federal.

01:26:04.000 I was federal.

01:26:05.000 And it's not the camp that you think it is, by the way.

01:26:07.000 And then I was sent out to Mariana, Florida.

01:26:10.000 That's nice weather.

01:26:12.000 Well, it was 105 in the summer.

01:26:14.000 Did you get to go outside?

01:26:15.000 Oh, yeah.

01:26:15.000 No, what happened was I was in isolation for nine months.

01:26:17.000 Nine months?

01:26:18.000 In total isolation in MCC, New York.

01:26:20.000 What is that like?

01:26:22.000 It's the worst thing in the world.

01:26:24.000 It's total deprivation, sensory deprivation, everything.

01:26:26.000 Is the lights on all the time?

01:26:28.000 Not always, but depending upon the location you're at, sometimes they keep a light on so that they can see you.

01:26:35.000 What does it feel like?

01:26:37.000 The worst thing about being in isolation is your loss of interpersonal skills, which I don't know if I have any anyway.

01:26:45.000 Just when you pass people in a physical manner, you don't know whether they're going to stab you or you should stab them, you should hug them, you should shake their hand.

01:26:53.000 It's hard to explain, but it's like that physical presence of another person next to you in your space.

01:27:03.000 I mean, you're a fighter.

01:27:04.000 You're a cop.

01:27:05.000 If someone gets in a certain space, you need to protect yourself.

01:27:08.000 Well, being a convict slash inmate slash prisoner, when someone steps in your personal space, of course, you need to check them.

01:27:15.000 But when you're in isolation, you don't know what it is.

01:27:20.000 Your personal space becomes whatever you can grasp.

01:27:23.000 Right.

01:27:24.000 Whatever you can control.

01:27:26.000 So when I was first, an example was when I first passed somebody, we had a room, let's say, the size of your studio here, and he was out on the floor and I was out on the floor.

01:27:35.000 At the same time, which is very odd in my situation because I wasn't around anybody, I didn't know what to do.

01:27:40.000 I didn't know how to respond to his presence in my world.

01:27:43.000 And he was another guy that was also in solitary?

01:27:45.000 For a short period of time.

01:27:47.000 He just got in trouble for something.

01:27:48.000 But at that point I was probably in, at that moment, probably five or six months.

01:27:52.000 So five or six months with no contact except when they feed you?

01:27:55.000 Right.

01:27:56.000 And when they feed you, they talk to you?

01:27:58.000 No, they throw the food through a slot and you go.

01:28:01.000 No one says anything to you?

01:28:02.000 Very little.

01:28:03.000 Very little interaction.

01:28:04.000 How are you today?

01:28:06.000 Yeah, good.

01:28:06.000 I'm good.

01:28:07.000 Great!

01:28:08.000 I just finished another book!

01:28:10.000 Right.

01:28:11.000 So that's the entire extent of your human interaction for nine months?

01:28:15.000 Essentially, yes.

01:28:16.000 You do get visits once a week or something like that for an hour.

01:28:20.000 With your family members.

01:28:22.000 Wow.

01:28:23.000 You know, and that's, you know, it's a little different because, you know, it's a warm thing, you know, but people that are criminals and convicts and the same, you're not really touchy, lovey-feely type thing, you know, so you don't know how to respond.

01:28:35.000 Yeah, I would imagine, like, didn't Bradley Manning, I think he was in for like two years plus before he became Chelsea Manning, right?

01:28:44.000 Two years plus solitary, no interaction with anyone, and I believe no clothes, because they were worried about him killing himself.

01:28:50.000 Hanging himself, yeah.

01:28:52.000 Or herself?

01:28:53.000 I don't know.

01:28:53.000 When does it transition?

01:28:55.000 When do you officially say him or her?

01:28:57.000 I don't know.

01:28:58.000 Either way.

01:28:58.000 But, like, I've heard it argued that, like, you go insane.

01:29:03.000 Like, if you leave someone alone for two or three years and there's no interaction at all with other people, you might as well just fucking shoot. 0.95

01:29:09.000 Yeah, I saw guys used to sleep underneath their bed, put the mattress on top of their bed and sleep underneath it. 0.98

01:29:14.000 Underneath the bed we hang up the wall or something.

01:29:17.000 I don't know.

01:29:17.000 I didn't want to ask him.

01:29:18.000 Wow.

01:29:19.000 It was just like that's what their life became. 0.95

01:29:21.000 You become insane.

01:29:22.000 Pappy Mason is one of the guys that he killed a cop and was responsible for the killing of Eddie Burns, I think. 0.91

01:29:29.000 One of the officers that was executed.

01:29:31.000 And he used to sleep under his bed.

01:29:34.000 It was part of the fact that he wanted to be known to be psycho rather than be responsible for what he did.

01:29:40.000 Oh, so he was doing things like...

01:29:41.000 Yeah, but then it became him.

01:29:42.000 Ooh.

01:29:43.000 Yeah.

01:29:43.000 Horrible.

01:29:44.000 And his dreads were fucking like 12 feet long. 1.00

01:29:47.000 Ugh. 0.99

01:29:47.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:29:48.000 His life became whatever, you know.

01:29:51.000 I have no sympathy for what he did.

01:29:52.000 Right.

01:29:53.000 But just people, human beings in general, that's what happens when they start to go on the other side of that. 0.97

01:29:57.000 Well, the thing about the Bradley Manning case is even more fucked up because all he did was expose crime. 0.88

01:30:03.000 I mean, that was the guy who gave away the WikiLeaks documents. 0.97

01:30:07.000 Oh, okay.

01:30:07.000 And he gave it to Julian Assange.

01:30:09.000 Now they're both fucked. 1.00

01:30:10.000 Julian Assange is stuck in a fucking embassy in London. 1.00

01:30:12.000 He can't move. 0.99

01:30:13.000 They just recently, I think in the last couple days, they got rid of his 24-hour guards.

01:30:18.000 He had guards outside the gate, making sure he didn't bolt. 1.00

01:30:21.000 And now they're like, yeah, fuck it. 1.00

01:30:24.000 He stays. 1.00

01:30:25.000 He's stuck in this, I think, the Ecuador embassy. 1.00

01:30:30.000 And so he's fucked there. 1.00

01:30:32.000 And then Chelsea Manning is fucked in jail forever. 1.00

01:30:36.000 And they're never gonna let her out now, and that's it. 0.99

01:30:39.000 And it's all exposing crime, which is even more fucked up, because Julian Assange is not a criminal, Bradley Manning is not a crime, other than, you know, the crime of exposing government corruption and documents.

01:30:52.000 So I'll give you an interesting detail on one of the hundreds of stories. 0.94

01:30:56.000 My boys, they do a shakedown.

01:30:58.000 They robbed this bodega, which is why Chicky and Walter become my buddy.

01:31:02.000 I mentioned it briefly before.

01:31:04.000 So...

01:31:06.000 They're out on bail. 0.99

01:31:07.000 Walter's living in my house, and Tromboli, one of the internal affairs detectives, is constantly at my house, like, surveilling my house and shit, right? 0.98

01:31:14.000 And Walter... 0.93

01:31:15.000 Chickie's out on bail, getting ready to do a little nine-month bid.

01:31:20.000 Walter's getting ready to go upstate for two and a half years because he's like...

01:31:22.000 He was on duty.

01:31:23.000 He was the police officer that was still on the job.

01:31:26.000 And so...

01:31:31.000 I find out that they're getting ready to go to trial now.

01:31:35.000 They're all putting themselves...

01:31:37.000 This is prior to their pleas.

01:31:39.000 They're getting ready to go to trial.

01:31:40.000 So I get in touch with Barron.

01:31:42.000 And I tell Barron, tell the owner of the bodega that he needs to leave the country right away.

01:31:48.000 Because trial's coming up in a week.

01:31:51.000 So...

01:31:54.000 Barron reaches out and tells the guy that, you know, the cops stopped by my office today and said, you guys gotta leave the country.

01:32:01.000 You gotta leave the country. 0.80

01:32:03.000 And he says, and You know, you gotta leave.

01:32:06.000 Because things can get bad if you don't leave the country.

01:32:09.000 So, the guy leaves the country immediately. 0.97

01:32:13.000 I get a phone call from one of the guys, whether it was Walter or Chick, he says, the fucking trial's been postponed. 0.97

01:32:21.000 I said, okay, good. 0.97

01:32:23.000 I don't know the details, but I know he's gone.

01:32:24.000 I had him leave the country.

01:32:27.000 So, about eight or ten months later, the case is ready to fall apart.

01:32:33.000 Internal Affairs goes and arrests this guy's wife or sister.

01:32:39.000 She's working in some bookie spot, one of those bodegas that sells numbers and they don't really sell food.

01:32:45.000 And they arrest his wife and tell him they're going to deport her and keep her kids and put them in BCW, one of those Bureau of Child Welfare. 0.94

01:32:53.000 Or call your brother and tell her to get back here.

01:32:57.000 I can't come back. 0.99

01:32:58.000 They're going to have me killed.

01:33:00.000 So he comes back under protection.

01:33:03.000 And the child goes forward.

01:33:05.000 But the fact is that what I'm getting at, what I'm telling you is that's what you can actually do when you're a cop.

01:33:12.000 If you really don't want something to happen.

01:33:14.000 You can actually have that kind of control over a situation.

01:33:17.000 Well, because, I mean, it wasn't them who did it.

01:33:19.000 It was us who did it.

01:33:20.000 We had this guy leave the country.

01:33:21.000 So these are the stories that The book layout, or even if the movie takes a spin in that direction. 0.77

01:33:28.000 I mean, there's really some intense shit that we were able to do.

01:33:31.000 I mean, if a guy put a complaint in against us, we'd go to his house. 0.93

01:33:36.000 You know, if you wanted to complain that the cops treated me unfairly or something like that.

01:33:41.000 Really?

01:33:43.000 You know, you've got to realize what you were dealing with. 1.00

01:33:45.000 Well, that kind of shit goes on to this day. 1.00

01:33:47.000 That kind of shit. 1.00

01:33:48.000 I'm not on the job. 1.00

01:33:49.000 Subtle versions of that.

01:33:51.000 Yeah, I... I'm not going to disparage anybody here.

01:33:55.000 I'm just telling you what we were able to do back then in order to keep moving the ball forward.

01:34:02.000 That's the way you could do things.

01:34:04.000 If a guy put up what they call a civilian complaint against, let's say, yourself, and you were either my buddy, one of my co-workers, you're not going to go to the guy's house and say anything, but you might have your friend sit in front of his house for a week.

01:34:16.000 And just freak him out.

01:34:18.000 You don't have to do anything.

01:34:19.000 Right.

01:34:20.000 It's enough.

01:34:21.000 It's pretty clear.

01:34:22.000 And we did that to Cello, the Kingpin drug dealer.

01:34:26.000 And that's when he tried to threaten to kill me.

01:34:28.000 Remember for the movie, he put a hit on me.

01:34:30.000 Because I sat in front of his bodega.

01:34:32.000 Because he shorted us $700.

01:34:34.000 I sat in front of his bodega for a week, probably.

01:34:38.000 And then he notified Baron that he put a hit out on me.

01:34:43.000 I don't know if that was part of the fluff or...

01:34:45.000 The reality is, so Baron called me and he says, there's a hit on you.

01:34:48.000 So that's when I went and I found him the next day, and day one, whatever it was, and pulled him over and confronted him in the street.

01:34:57.000 And he called a hit off and got my 700 bucks, too, which was a nice day.

01:35:01.000 Kenny says I never gave him the 350. He's got to be full of shit. 1.00

01:35:04.000 I mean, what? 1.00

01:35:05.000 He wasn't there, like I said.

01:35:07.000 I don't remember.

01:35:08.000 Wow.

01:35:10.000 Now, when you go away, okay, you do your nine months in solitary.

01:35:14.000 Right.

01:35:15.000 Why did they put you in solitary initially?

01:35:17.000 Cop.

01:35:17.000 Because you're a cop.

01:35:18.000 Just to protect you?

01:35:19.000 Yeah.

01:35:20.000 So once you get out of solitary.

01:35:22.000 Yeah, now you're in with everybody else.

01:35:23.000 And what is that like?

01:35:24.000 That's a little, you know, should I go back?

01:35:29.000 Solitary or not?

01:35:30.000 Is this maximum security, minimum, maximum?

01:35:32.000 High security.

01:35:33.000 So you're dealing with?

01:35:34.000 Everybody.

01:35:34.000 I was in there with the guys.

01:35:36.000 You named their names.

01:35:37.000 I was there with them.

01:35:38.000 You know, Gotti's crew was on the 11th floor.

01:35:41.000 I was on the 9th floor, the 7th floor, you know, in MCC. And so, I mean, God, he's for whatever.

01:35:47.000 But all the gangbangers were in there that were around that time, you know.

01:35:50.000 In fact, some of my good buddies were cop impersonators, you know.

01:35:55.000 They were one of those gangs that was going out, you know, basically executing.

01:35:58.000 I wasn't executing anybody, but they were, you know.

01:36:00.000 They were going in as cops and executing the drug dealers and taking their money.

01:36:03.000 So they were going in with lights, the whole deal?

01:36:05.000 Yeah, badges, coats, bulletproof vests, 38 Smith& Wessons and...

01:36:11.000 Killing people. 0.96

01:36:11.000 Yeah, killing people and taking their drugs. 0.96

01:36:13.000 I mean, that was the 80s, and it's Brooklyn and Manhattan and the Bronx.

01:36:16.000 And when you're in there and you go from solitary to...

01:36:22.000 Just general population.

01:36:24.000 General population.

01:36:24.000 You know, you gotta watch your back every step of the way.

01:36:26.000 What is that like?

01:36:28.000 You know, it's like how when I was driving to work wondering if I was getting arrested every day.

01:36:32.000 What was the first day like?

01:36:33.000 The first day like they let you out and now all of a sudden, do you have to share a cell with somebody?

01:36:37.000 Yeah.

01:36:38.000 Who's the guy?

01:36:39.000 I can't recall.

01:36:41.000 You don't know who you share the cell with?

01:36:42.000 That was hundreds.

01:36:43.000 Hundreds of guys?

01:36:44.000 Yeah.

01:36:45.000 Just different guys all the time?

01:36:46.000 Different guys all the time.

01:36:46.000 You're in transition.

01:36:48.000 In MCC New York, you're in transition.

01:36:51.000 I ended up sharing a cell with Patsy Conti one time, who was one of the wise guys.

01:36:55.000 They try to keep the white guys with the white guys, because prison's very racially divisive.

01:37:02.000 Black guys with black guys, white guys with white guys. 0.93

01:37:04.000 That's how it was.

01:37:05.000 Spanish guys with Spanish guys. 0.70

01:37:07.000 That's just the way prison is.

01:37:08.000 Now, do you have to align yourself with particular groups or anything while you're in there?

01:37:11.000 Listen, no one's going to align themselves with me.

01:37:13.000 But the happenstance is that when you're in MCC New York, it's like 60% black guys, 35% Hispanic guys, 2% Asian, and 1% white.

01:37:25.000 I think you're missing some numbers.

01:37:31.000 Let me get my pen out.

01:37:33.000 So even if you were a wise guy in the street, you saw a white face, you talked, whether you liked each other or not. 0.84

01:37:41.000 I understand.

01:37:42.000 And being I was young and still a little, I was in pretty good shape at this point.

01:37:46.000 Now we're down about a year or so and doing Probably, you know, 600, 800 push-ups, 1,000 push-ups a day, chin-ups, dips, backbends, you know, the whole bit.

01:37:56.000 Right, right.

01:37:56.000 You know, now I'm in great shape.

01:37:58.000 I'm doing the bar.

01:38:00.000 I'm doing 160 pull-ups, you know, frontwards, backwards.

01:38:04.000 And people see you moving around.

01:38:05.000 They're like, okay, you know, this isn't an easy trip.

01:38:07.000 Right, right, right.

01:38:08.000 No matter what you think of me, I was a cop or not.

01:38:10.000 It wasn't an easy ride.

01:38:12.000 And then all the older wise guys, they're feeble guys, most of them.

01:38:16.000 When they finally get arrested, most of them are banged up anyway.

01:38:18.000 They're 65, 70, you know.

01:38:20.000 What happens to those guys when they get in?

01:38:22.000 Well, they align themselves with a young guy who does most of their bidding, and hopefully you don't have to take a knife for one of them or something like that.

01:38:30.000 Look, they got money.

01:38:31.000 When you got money in prison, it's like money in the street, you know.

01:38:33.000 And when you're in, okay, so when you go from being in solitary to general population, like, what are your days like?

01:38:41.000 Well, there's different worlds.

01:38:43.000 You know, MCC New York, you're in a jail, so you're really just inside a building and...

01:38:48.000 And some people have jobs, some people don't.

01:38:50.000 Jobs meaning they go to the kitchen, they cook, and they provide meals for the rest of the prison.

01:38:54.000 I was in like an orderly.

01:38:56.000 I'd have to clean a floor, something like that.

01:38:58.000 And basically sat there and waited to get sentenced.

01:39:02.000 It was horrible.

01:39:03.000 You know, you sat inside a building, you know, you come in, you look like a piece of paper. 0.99

01:39:07.000 You're so white, you got no sun, you got no vitamin C or D or B or E or G, whatever the fuck the vitamins are from the sun. 0.99

01:39:13.000 You got none of them. 0.99

01:39:14.000 And the food's horrible.

01:39:16.000 And you can't wait to get sentenced.

01:39:18.000 Because you want to go out and live a life.

01:39:20.000 Now, being a sentenced prisoner opposed to a prisoner in waiting, like a bride in waiting, you finally get out.

01:39:27.000 So how long is this waiting period?

01:39:28.000 It was two years.

01:39:29.000 So for two years.

01:39:30.000 So nine months, solitary, and then another year, 15 months, you're just in this jail waiting to be sentenced.

01:39:37.000 Waiting to be sentenced.

01:39:37.000 So finally you get sentenced, and then what happens?

01:39:39.000 Sentenced, I get sent to, I get put on a Learjet, it was like first class.

01:39:42.000 Really?

01:39:42.000 Yeah, I get taken from MCC New York in a limousine, a prison limousine, over to Teterboro Airport, where the federal jet is, the Learjet.

01:39:54.000 Me and like two other people get on this jet, and they whisk us off to...

01:39:57.000 Two people?

01:39:58.000 Yeah, they whisk us off to Florida.

01:40:01.000 We land in Jacksonville, we pick up some girl, I don't know, and then they whisk us west.

01:40:07.000 So this is how they transport prisoners?

01:40:09.000 They put them in a federal jet?

01:40:12.000 In my case.

01:40:13.000 Because I was leaving the region.

01:40:17.000 They have a big bus normally.

01:40:20.000 They'll deposit you along the way.

01:40:22.000 And then some people get moved around on different sized jets.

01:40:24.000 This happened to be a Lear, which is like a four or five passenger jet, which was nice.

01:40:28.000 Like a VIP. This is wonderful.

01:40:30.000 This is great.

01:40:31.000 I love this.

01:40:32.000 Do they have peanuts?

01:40:33.000 No, just nuts.

01:40:34.000 Lots of nuts, if you like.

01:40:36.000 But no peanuts.

01:40:38.000 And so, then... 0.99

01:40:40.000 Actually, there was a cute girl on the fucking plane with me. 1.00

01:40:43.000 A prisoner? 0.99

01:40:43.000 A girl prisoner? 0.99

01:40:44.000 Yeah.

01:40:45.000 How'd that work out?

01:40:46.000 I don't remember her name.

01:40:47.000 But anyway, she was cute.

01:40:49.000 I got to look at something.

01:40:50.000 Where's she going?

01:40:50.000 She just elbowed me a little bit, you know?

01:40:52.000 Where's she going?

01:40:53.000 I don't know.

01:40:53.000 To a woman's prison in Tallahassee.

01:40:55.000 What did she do? 0.80

01:40:56.000 I don't know.

01:40:56.000 We don't talk.

01:40:57.000 You didn't ask her questions? 1.00

01:40:58.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:40:59.000 No, I'm not an interviewer. 1.00

01:41:00.000 You seem like a talkative guy. 0.93

01:41:00.000 I am, but I'm fucking trying to keep my world small. 0.93

01:41:04.000 When you're a guy like me in prison, you don't open your mouth, you don't talk to anybody, you don't elicit a conversation with anybody. 0.97

01:41:11.000 That had to be really difficult for you.

01:41:12.000 Very.

01:41:13.000 I would imagine.

01:41:14.000 Horrible. 1.00

01:41:15.000 It was like pulling my tongue out and throwing it on the ground for fucking 12 years. 0.99

01:41:18.000 So you're just doing this for survival purposes? 0.99

01:41:20.000 Yeah, you just stay in your own little world.

01:41:22.000 Because you open yourself up, people want either in or to use things against you.

01:41:27.000 Like in the free world, but in this case, it's a microcosm.

01:41:30.000 It'll come back to you real quick, the way people use information against you.

01:41:34.000 Wow.

01:41:35.000 So I go from there, and then I end up in some small county jail, which I end up with one of the guys from Cocaine Cowboy who ends up dying. 0.97

01:41:44.000 A couple of them did, but this fellow here is telling me, I got to get the fuck out of here. 0.58

01:41:47.000 And I'm in the county jail, and there's like a piece of barbed wire around this fence. 0.73

01:41:50.000 And he's telling me, there's a guy in a tree.

01:41:53.000 Treehouse.

01:41:54.000 There's a guy in a treehouse with a shotgun.

01:41:56.000 That's it.

01:41:56.000 A shotgun?

01:41:58.000 Yeah.

01:41:58.000 That's it?

01:41:58.000 Well, it's security for this little county jail.

01:42:01.000 But only a shotgun?

01:42:02.000 Yeah.

01:42:02.000 He's sitting up there with a shotgun.

01:42:03.000 How far away is he?

01:42:05.000 60-80 feet from the barbed wire fence.

01:42:08.000 Oh.

01:42:08.000 Yeah.

01:42:09.000 They can kill you for 60-80 feet. 0.93

01:42:10.000 Yeah, he'll get you. 0.97

01:42:11.000 If he's not sleeping.

01:42:12.000 I'm like a shotgun.

01:42:13.000 But they're only making $10,000, $12,000 a year.

01:42:15.000 Oh.

01:42:16.000 So he's saying, hmm.

01:42:18.000 And he's big money, cocaine cowboy guys. 0.99

01:42:20.000 He's thinking he could have some money sent to this guy's fucking, I don't know, his mother. 1.00

01:42:24.000 Who the fuck knows? 1.00

01:42:25.000 All you have to do is give the guy something that puts him out. 1.00

01:42:28.000 Some chew.

01:42:29.000 Some tobacco.

01:42:30.000 What are these cigars?

01:42:31.000 You just give him a pill that knocks him out.

01:42:33.000 Like, tell him.

01:42:34.000 You're going to give you a lot of money.

01:42:35.000 He's not responsible.

01:42:35.000 I'm going to dummy up your drink.

01:42:37.000 And I'm going to jump.

01:42:38.000 And no one's going to know how it happened. 0.58

01:42:40.000 You're going to wake up in a puddle of your own spit.

01:42:42.000 We should have done time together.

01:42:43.000 That's what I would have done.

01:42:44.000 This is real simple here.

01:42:45.000 Yeah, but you're 48, you know?

01:42:47.000 These guys are...

01:42:49.000 I mean, they weren't that young, but these guys, you know, they were already fighting for their lives.

01:42:52.000 When El Chapo, when that guy got out and he dug that hole a mile long underneath the...

01:42:57.000 They gave him a pill?

01:42:58.000 No, but didn't you respect that?

01:43:01.000 I respected that.

01:43:02.000 I'm not even a criminal.

01:43:03.000 What part? 0.99

01:43:03.000 The fact that they had the fucking, the thought process involved in digging a hole. 0.99

01:43:08.000 This is what they do every day! 0.99

01:43:09.000 I know, but I mean, still, I was like, I gotta respect that.

01:43:12.000 Well, you had to know. 0.98

01:43:13.000 The guy made a fucking mile-long tunnel with electricity and an electric bike. 0.99

01:43:18.000 When you got that kind of money, you're getting out. 0.99

01:43:18.000 When you got that kind of money, you're getting out, okay? 0.99

01:43:20.000 And there's a lot of people getting paid, too, along the way there.

01:43:23.000 Apparently he's got a hundred million dollar bounty on Donald Trump.

01:43:25.000 Oh, really? 1.00

01:43:26.000 Does Donald Trump talk shit about Mexicans too much? 1.00

01:43:28.000 Yeah, whatever. 1.00

01:43:29.000 Let's not talk politics here, because...

01:43:31.000 It's not even political.

01:43:33.000 Well, assassinations are political, too. 0.96

01:43:35.000 But when guys want to get out, you know, all day, that's all you're thinking about, how the fuck do I get out? 0.62

01:43:41.000 They were digging out where I was, too.

01:43:42.000 Did they?

01:43:43.000 They caught them, yeah.

01:43:44.000 Did they?

01:43:44.000 Yeah, well, someone gives you up.

01:43:46.000 Right.

01:43:46.000 Because they want to go to a better place.

01:43:49.000 Right.

01:43:50.000 Let's say, I mean, I end up in Mariana.

01:43:52.000 Well, let me tell you this.

01:43:53.000 Okay. 0.95

01:43:53.000 So I get off the bus, and I'm like, this is going to be fucking horrible. 0.95

01:43:57.000 I've got to do another, now at this point, another ten and a half years like this. 0.99

01:44:00.000 I walk in a fucking place like this, and it's hot. 0.99

01:44:02.000 It's fucking the middle of the summer. 0.99

01:44:03.000 Like, let's say July, whatever it was. 0.99

01:44:06.000 And Panhandle, Florida, it's fucking hot. 0.97

01:44:08.000 It's 100. I get off the bus, and I see this fence and gate and shit, and it looks okay. 0.99

01:44:14.000 And they bring you into R&D. It's like you're a package. 0.97

01:44:18.000 They bring you into R&D. They process you.

01:44:20.000 If you ever see them on TV, they got the fucking bags. 1.00

01:44:24.000 They got their bedroll. 1.00

01:44:25.000 They got their bedroll in their hand. 1.00

01:44:27.000 It has some of their clothes and shit. 0.99

01:44:28.000 And you're walking through this compound. 0.99

01:44:30.000 And this guard opens up.

01:44:32.000 Guard, whatever the heck.

01:44:33.000 He opens up the port to this compound. 1.00

01:44:39.000 And I say to myself, strike me dead. 0.99

01:44:41.000 Now, I just came from a fucking hole in the wall for years, like two years. 0.99

01:44:44.000 I've been looking at nothing but cement and polish on the floor. 0.99

01:44:48.000 And he opens it up, and I see a luscious fucking place. 0.98

01:44:53.000 Other than my vacations in the Cayman Islands, this was the most picturesque place I've ever seen. 0.99

01:44:59.000 Like, up close and in person.

01:45:00.000 Now, it doesn't matter.

01:45:01.000 It's two years I've been seeing cement, so.

01:45:03.000 Right.

01:45:03.000 I mean, lush.

01:45:04.000 Flowers, colors, beautiful.

01:45:06.000 Grass, beautiful.

01:45:08.000 Cement, gorgeous.

01:45:09.000 A big, beautiful chow-ho with my name saying, come and eat. 1.00

01:45:13.000 You know, I haven't had a good meal in fucking forever. 0.99

01:45:15.000 And the food was good? 1.00

01:45:17.000 I was eating fucking hash. 0.99

01:45:19.000 The food's gonna be good no matter what. 0.99

01:45:21.000 So I go like this.

01:45:22.000 I go to myself. 1.00

01:45:24.000 This is fucking paradise. 1.00

01:45:25.000 I swear to God. 1.00

01:45:27.000 I just finished saying it and the guard goes, welcome to paradise.

01:45:31.000 Whoa.

01:45:32.000 Like the thing we had this morning with the new coke and the old coke.

01:45:35.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:45:36.000 I'm going, I don't want to let him know that I agree.

01:45:40.000 Wow. 0.99

01:45:40.000 I fucking agree! 0.99

01:45:41.000 So when he's saying welcome to paradise, is he fucking with you? 0.99

01:45:45.000 No, because he knows where I just came from. 0.99

01:45:47.000 Right.

01:45:47.000 You understand?

01:45:48.000 And he knows that this is nice.

01:45:50.000 It's a college campus with fences around it.

01:45:53.000 Right.

01:45:53.000 But the inhabitants are not quite college people.

01:45:59.000 You know, the average sentence was, I think, 18 years when I worked in that place.

01:46:04.000 And it was 300, and I want to say 40-some-odd men that were never going home, that I was now going to bunk with.

01:46:09.000 Those are the dangerous ones.

01:46:12.000 You know what?

01:46:13.000 They're the least dangerous.

01:46:14.000 There were nothing to lose, guys?

01:46:15.000 Yeah.

01:46:17.000 Not the ones that are doing their time.

01:46:19.000 Why are they the least dangerous?

01:46:21.000 Well, because they just want to live their lives out.

01:46:24.000 It's the young bucks that just want to make a name for themselves. 0.99

01:46:28.000 They don't see the 10 years, 15 years from now they're going home.

01:46:32.000 They just see the same immediate gratification that got them there.

01:46:35.000 Right. 1.00

01:46:36.000 So, right now I like your sneakers or I like your fucking soup. 0.99

01:46:40.000 I don't have any soup because I don't even know my parents. 0.99

01:46:43.000 I don't get the extras.

01:46:45.000 Prison's about extras.

01:46:46.000 If you get extras in prison, you'll survive.

01:46:49.000 So explain that to me.

01:46:51.000 Commissary.

01:46:52.000 People live on a commissary in prison because it's like it's part of rebellion.

01:46:57.000 No one wants to be beholden to the government for what they're going to give them. 0.98

01:47:00.000 So, when you go into prison, yeah, you get a good square meal, you know, food's okay, you know, it's cooked for fucking 1800 men. 0.98

01:47:07.000 Right. 0.97

01:47:07.000 There's plenty of... 0.97

01:47:09.000 It's a control mechanism.

01:47:12.000 Food is a control mechanism, exercise is a control mechanism, and all the frills are control mechanisms.

01:47:16.000 How do you control a population?

01:47:19.000 Water, food, sex that they can't have.

01:47:22.000 So, certain things are a control mechanism.

01:47:24.000 Food and exercise in prison is a control mechanism.

01:47:26.000 So, the way to control guys is to provide them with a good meal. 0.99

01:47:32.000 And you don't want to lose that good fucking meal. 0.99

01:47:34.000 So, you got to be good. 1.00

01:47:36.000 Because I just came from a place where I was eating shit out of a plastic container all day long. 0.99

01:47:42.000 Now I got a plate with a knife and a fork. 0.99

01:47:44.000 I can eat like a gentleman.

01:47:46.000 You know, you start to feel like a human being again.

01:47:48.000 But the problem is the guy next to you is, you know, you don't want to take him home, necessarily.

01:47:53.000 Unless it's me.

01:47:54.000 The guy next to you is not getting the same food?

01:47:57.000 No, he's getting the same, and he wants that.

01:47:59.000 Right.

01:47:59.000 So he wants to maintain the status quo.

01:48:03.000 So if he's down there doing a life sentence, he's okay with it because he's accepted it.

01:48:07.000 Right.

01:48:08.000 It's the young guys that, you know, think that they want your food or they, you know, they want to get over.

01:48:13.000 The get over mentality. 0.99

01:48:14.000 You have to let go of the get over mentality, otherwise you're going to live that fucking happy life in prison. 0.85

01:48:19.000 The get over mentality meaning you're always looking to get ahead a little bit. 0.96

01:48:23.000 Right.

01:48:23.000 A little scam, a little this.

01:48:24.000 Yeah, scam a little, steal some eggs, sell them to this guy.

01:48:27.000 A lot of people send money home from prison.

01:48:30.000 So it turns into another rat race.

01:48:32.000 Now, when you say the commissary, like, what can you get at a commissary?

01:48:36.000 Well, one of the big things are stamps, so you can use that to barter.

01:48:40.000 Stamps is like currency.

01:48:42.000 Stamps and tuna fish are currency in prison.

01:48:44.000 So you can send letters.

01:48:45.000 You can send letters.

01:48:46.000 So you have to have stamps to send a letter home.

01:48:48.000 You can gamble.

01:48:49.000 You can gamble.

01:48:50.000 Yeah.

01:48:51.000 Right.

01:48:51.000 What kind of gambling?

01:48:52.000 Well, sports.

01:48:53.000 Usually it's sports gambling.

01:48:55.000 And then there's cards, you know, and there's cards or checkers or chess, you know, people gamble on anything.

01:48:59.000 So can you watch games and stuff like that?

01:49:01.000 Well, the unit I stayed in had five or six TVs.

01:49:03.000 Really?

01:49:04.000 In a common area, yeah.

01:49:05.000 One had the rap station on, one had the basketball all the time, and the other one had Spanish TV. So then you had CNN once in a while, which we saw the 9-11 attack, and they all come out looking at me, Mike, did you see what happened?

01:49:18.000 I'm like, yeah, okay, you know.

01:49:20.000 They looked at you because you were a cop?

01:49:22.000 Of course I was from New York and I was a cop.

01:49:24.000 All the staff and everybody came over. 0.97

01:49:26.000 It was a difficult fucking moment to say the least. 0.98

01:49:29.000 So I went through a lot of that stuff in prison. 0.98

01:49:32.000 So in the commissary you can get extra things?

01:49:34.000 Extra food?

01:49:35.000 Extra food.

01:49:36.000 What kind of food?

01:49:37.000 Like I said, tuna fish, octopus.

01:49:40.000 Octopus?

01:49:40.000 Oh yeah!

01:49:42.000 But you gotta buy it!

01:49:43.000 How much does it cost?

01:49:45.000 Well, if you paid a dollar for a can of tuna in the street, it was $2.50 in there, that type of thing.

01:49:50.000 Whatever the current rate is, you paid a little bit more in prison.

01:49:52.000 Right.

01:49:52.000 And then if you're working in prison, you get very little money, right?

01:49:55.000 You get very little money, so the money from the outside is what you maintain.

01:49:58.000 So guys that go to prison and have outside connections with family that would still help them support themselves become a commodity in prison.

01:50:04.000 Ah.

01:50:06.000 You're a hustler in prison, so you like to take extra eggs and make some egg salad, let's say.

01:50:11.000 Because guys work out all day long.

01:50:12.000 That's what they do.

01:50:13.000 They want to increase their protein.

01:50:14.000 They want to stay in shape because they want to go home one day.

01:50:17.000 And so you learn to adjust your life in order that you have an end game.

01:50:21.000 Some kids only care about today.

01:50:24.000 And some of them don't go home because they end up getting in a fight, a stabbing, killed, whatever.

01:50:29.000 And then they get another bid because of that.

01:50:30.000 They get another bid because of that.

01:50:32.000 And there you go.

01:50:33.000 Whew.

01:50:34.000 So is that what you did most of your time down there in Florida?

01:50:37.000 I did five years plus in Mariana, Florida.

01:50:39.000 And then I wanted to get closer to family because I was getting ready to be released.

01:50:44.000 I'm talking seven years.

01:50:45.000 I'm anticipating a release in about three or four years, which didn't turn out.

01:50:49.000 And I lost a year when I got on a plane, which is a legal argument that I made for the next five years and lost.

01:50:55.000 But I wanted a year off down in Mariana, Florida for my drug program participation.

01:51:00.000 But I had to go to court to get it.

01:51:01.000 So when I got on the plane to come back to Devens, Massachusetts, where I served in Ayer, Mass.

01:51:06.000 Are you familiar with that area of Massachusetts at all?

01:51:08.000 Where's Ayer?

01:51:09.000 What's Ayer?

01:51:09.000 It's near the W, Fort Devens.

01:51:17.000 It's west of Boston, about 45 miles.

01:51:22.000 Okay.

01:51:23.000 Worcester?

01:51:24.000 Worcester, yeah.

01:51:25.000 Right.

01:51:25.000 It's near Worcester, Mass.

01:51:26.000 Okay.

01:51:27.000 Anyway, so they had to open a new federal prison there.

01:51:29.000 I wanted to get closer to my family, so I ended up getting on a plane.

01:51:32.000 You know, you request.

01:51:33.000 You make a request.

01:51:34.000 Right.

01:51:34.000 Got on a plane.

01:51:35.000 They've fulfilled my request.

01:51:36.000 I ended up in Devon, Massachusetts, and when I got off the plane, I lost a year off my sentence because I'm now in a different legal situation.

01:51:43.000 Jurisdiction than the legal jurisdiction that I was in in Florida.

01:51:46.000 So you have to do an extra year because of that? 0.98

01:51:48.000 So I got the year put back onto my sentence that I earned off and I just wanted to fucking... 0.99

01:51:51.000 I was on fucking medication. 0.99

01:51:53.000 It's like... 0.99

01:51:54.000 I said, can you just send me back?

01:51:56.000 They went, no.

01:51:59.000 Oh...

01:52:01.000 So you had an extra year just to come to New York.

01:52:04.000 Yeah, because I wanted to get closer to my family so they would get to know me as I get released.

01:52:07.000 You know, you want to get a closer bond with your family.

01:52:09.000 Make it easier for them to visit.

01:52:09.000 Make it easier for everybody.

01:52:11.000 Visiting, exactly.

01:52:12.000 And then, so of course, another year.

01:52:14.000 So I ended up in a fight over that.

01:52:16.000 Fist fight, whatever. 0.99

01:52:17.000 I lost my fucking mind and I ended up... 1.00

01:52:19.000 Causing a hunger strike. 1.00

01:52:21.000 You went on a hunger strike?

01:52:23.000 I organized one.

01:52:25.000 I couldn't do it.

01:52:27.000 I can't go six hours without eating.

01:52:28.000 In fact, I'm getting hungry right now.

01:52:31.000 I helped organize a hunger strike.

01:52:32.000 So you organized a hunger strike but you didn't participate?

01:52:36.000 Yeah, I participated for an hour. 1.00

01:52:39.000 We're fucked up in an hour! 0.99

01:52:40.000 You don't know, the stories are crazy. 0.99

01:52:42.000 So I ended up in MCC New York again, the place where I had just...

01:52:47.000 Oh, no. 0.99

01:52:47.000 Back in the fucking hole over there, in isolation. 0.99

01:52:50.000 Oh, no. 1.00

01:52:50.000 So I caused another hunger strike there. 1.00

01:52:52.000 Oh, God.

01:52:54.000 And that time they listened to us, and they shipped me out to McKeon, Pennsylvania.

01:52:59.000 And I did like three years there. 0.99

01:53:01.000 I mean, it just gets tired just going through this shit. 0.99

01:53:04.000 And you live the life out there. 0.99

01:53:06.000 I don't need any sympathy, by the way.

01:53:08.000 It is what it is.

01:53:09.000 Yeah, no, I'm not giving you any sympathy.

01:53:11.000 I'm just trying to think about what it was like.

01:53:13.000 To add a year to someone's sentence, they actually called for an ambulance.

01:53:17.000 After they told me, you want an ambulance?

01:53:20.000 I'm like, I'm not sure.

01:53:22.000 I was going down.

01:53:23.000 Right, right.

01:53:24.000 I don't know what happened. 0.99

01:53:25.000 I fought for five years to get this fucking sentence. 0.99

01:53:28.000 Actually, four years to get this sentence. 0.99

01:53:29.000 Reduced a year. 0.99

01:53:30.000 And now you gave it back to me in one day because I got off a plane in your fucking state. 1.00

01:53:34.000 I hate this fucking state. 1.00

01:53:35.000 Send me back to Florida. 1.00

01:53:38.000 Here's the good news, she says to me. 1.00

01:53:40.000 Hot bitch. 1.00

01:53:41.000 She goes, here's the good news. 1.00

01:53:42.000 The good news is you got four years to fight us.

01:53:45.000 Oof.

01:53:46.000 I just got finished fighting them for four years. 0.99

01:53:49.000 It costs so much to fight these cocksuckers. 0.98

01:53:51.000 You have no idea. 0.93

01:53:52.000 I'm living on stamps and the goodwill of people sending me money and some of the money that I earned in prison. 0.99

01:53:57.000 It's fucking horrible. 0.93

01:53:58.000 Now, are you allowed to make money off of your case now? 0.99

01:54:03.000 I did a lot of research, the people I'm involved with, and unless there's a specific victim that was specifically out there, unless a guy says I stole his kilo, I don't know.

01:54:13.000 What's he going to do?

01:54:14.000 What's he going to do?

01:54:15.000 You have to prove how many kilos you sold.

01:54:18.000 So it's not like a violent crime.

01:54:21.000 Like O.J. Simpson can't make money off the...

01:54:23.000 Yes, yes.

01:54:24.000 But the details are slightly different because, you know, I was a...

01:54:28.000 I don't know what the fuck you would call it, but the people that researched it for me said that the law, that the Son of Sam law does not directly affect you. 0.51

01:54:37.000 Yeah, it would make sense. 0.98

01:54:38.000 You'd have to have a specific victim that you victimized.

01:54:41.000 Right.

01:54:41.000 And then you profit off of that.

01:54:43.000 Or for their misfortune.

01:54:45.000 Right, right, right.

01:54:46.000 That you caused.

01:54:47.000 Right.

01:54:48.000 Yeah, so this is not that.

01:54:49.000 Right.

01:54:50.000 I mean, the son of Sam executed people on Long Island, you know?

01:54:53.000 In fact, the guy, the detective's name is a distant cousin of mine, Timothy Dowd, who arrested him.

01:54:57.000 Really?

01:54:58.000 Yeah.

01:54:58.000 They called the son of Sam?

01:54:59.000 Yeah.

01:55:00.000 Yeah, so, you know, my family's got the legacy on both sides, I guess.

01:55:03.000 Pro-con.

01:55:04.000 Yeah.

01:55:05.000 Now, what is it like the first day you got out?

01:55:08.000 You know, I thought you might ask that question.

01:55:10.000 How could I not?

01:55:11.000 Yeah.

01:55:12.000 Well, the first day I got out...

01:55:16.000 There's different outs, okay?

01:55:17.000 You get released to a halfway house.

01:55:19.000 So I was in McKeon, Pennsylvania now.

01:55:21.000 I was finishing my bid, and my parents wanted to send a limousine to pick me up and welcome me home like a big shot, you know?

01:55:26.000 Right.

01:55:26.000 But not in a boisterous way, just to show me love.

01:55:30.000 Show me love, right?

01:55:31.000 So I said, you know what?

01:55:32.000 No.

01:55:32.000 I want to take the bus home, the Greyhound.

01:55:35.000 So I got on a Greyhound bus and I drove the Greyhound bus.

01:55:38.000 I didn't drive it.

01:55:39.000 I was a passenger on a Greyhound bus to MCC, not MCC, the bus terminal in Manhattan.

01:55:45.000 And my family was there waiting for me, you know, about 10, 15 of them were there.

01:55:49.000 It was a nice welcoming, but all I can do is say, I need a quarter.

01:55:53.000 And they're like, what do you need a quarter for? 0.98

01:55:55.000 I said, I need to fucking make a phone call. 0.96

01:55:57.000 I said, anyone got a quarter? 0.98

01:55:59.000 I need it right now.

01:56:00.000 I'm panicking because I'm running late and the halfway house, and I'm a rules follower sometimes, so I don't want to go back.

01:56:05.000 Right.

01:56:06.000 I need to notify the halfway house I'm going to be running late because the bus was late.

01:56:09.000 Right.

01:56:10.000 So, all of a sudden, people start handing me these things to talk on. 0.99

01:56:16.000 What the fuck is that? 0.99

01:56:17.000 Cell phones. 1.00

01:56:17.000 What the fuck is that? 1.00

01:56:19.000 They go, it's a phone. 1.00

01:56:21.000 We'll dial it for me.

01:56:22.000 I never dial, I don't know what I'm doing.

01:56:24.000 So you'd never seen a cell phone before?

01:56:26.000 Never saw a cell phone before.

01:56:27.000 Wow.

01:56:28.000 Oh, that's not true.

01:56:29.000 I saw the original cell phones.

01:56:31.000 The brick?

01:56:31.000 Yeah, the bricks.

01:56:32.000 I was the original handler of the bricks.

01:56:35.000 But now I had no idea what he used to do.

01:56:36.000 Did you have one of those things?

01:56:37.000 No, but my drug dealers did.

01:56:39.000 Oh, they had those like the ones from Gordon Gekko and Wall Street?

01:56:43.000 Yeah, they looked like this.

01:56:44.000 They were squared.

01:56:45.000 And then they had the ones with the long cords.

01:56:47.000 They could take them out and talk on them.

01:56:49.000 They had a suitcase and carried around.

01:56:50.000 They were my heroes back then.

01:56:52.000 Can you imagine?

01:56:53.000 I'm calling my house.

01:56:54.000 My wife's going, what are you calling from? 0.98

01:56:56.000 I go, you don't want the drug dealer's cell phones right now.

01:56:59.000 The guy's like, I said, do me a favor, erase that number when I finish talking to you.

01:57:04.000 So you call the halfway house and now you have to live there for a while?

01:57:08.000 Now I got to live there, which is back in the ghetto. 1.00

01:57:10.000 I'm back in the ghetto living in a halfway house and I'm out about, I don't know, two or three days and the newspaper are out front circling like fucking bees around honey or flies on shit. 0.99

01:57:20.000 They're all over the place. 0.99

01:57:21.000 And if someone snaps a picture of a guy, puts it on the front page of the Daily News and says, Doud still walks like a cop.

01:57:26.000 It wasn't me.

01:57:27.000 You walk like a cop?

01:57:28.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:57:28.000 What the fuck does that mean? 1.00

01:57:29.000 Well, you know, we know. 0.99

01:57:31.000 They know what they're saying.

01:57:32.000 Twirling a baton?

01:57:33.000 Nah! 0.99

01:57:34.000 How does one walk like a cop?

01:57:36.000 I'm a white guy in the ghetto walking like I owned it.

01:57:38.000 Oh.

01:57:39.000 Yeah, so this guy was...

01:57:40.000 Oh, interesting.

01:57:41.000 But it wasn't even you.

01:57:42.000 It wasn't me.

01:57:42.000 It was somebody else.

01:57:44.000 So the guy sues and gets a half a million.

01:57:45.000 I'm still broke.

01:57:46.000 Really?

01:57:46.000 Yeah.

01:57:46.000 That guy sued and got a half a million dollars because he was walking like a cop?

01:57:50.000 Yeah, well, they put his picture on the front page of the...

01:57:52.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:57:53.000 And they tarnished his criminal image that said he was a rogue cop.

01:57:57.000 Shh! 0.97

01:57:57.000 He was only there for something else. 0.97

01:57:59.000 That's hilarious.

01:58:00.000 That's hilarious.

01:58:01.000 So he had to deal with that.

01:58:02.000 This is the Daily News or the Post?

01:58:04.000 What was it?

01:58:04.000 Which one?

01:58:05.000 It was the Daily News.

01:58:06.000 Yeah, well.

01:58:07.000 There you go.

01:58:09.000 Well, how's it?

01:58:10.000 Nuff said?

01:58:11.000 Well, people, yeah, people who don't know those tabloid newspapers in New York, those are hilarious newspapers. 0.98

01:58:16.000 The fucking covers are always very funny. 0.98

01:58:18.000 Yeah, right. 1.00

01:58:19.000 Not when your face is on it for fucking, like, six months. 0.99

01:58:21.000 Yeah, well, I would imagine. 0.98

01:58:22.000 Do you save any of those?

01:58:24.000 Yeah.

01:58:25.000 No, but yes.

01:58:27.000 Me, no.

01:58:28.000 I mean, I didn't want to have it in my property when I landed in a different institution.

01:58:32.000 Like, oh, this is you.

01:58:34.000 Let me just put these up on the wall.

01:58:35.000 Yeah, some family members have like every one, I guess.

01:58:37.000 Now, when you get out and you're in the halfway house, how long do you have to stay there?

01:58:41.000 I want to go back to prison.

01:58:42.000 Really?

01:58:43.000 Yeah.

01:58:43.000 Because the halfway house is that bad.

01:58:45.000 No, because I don't know what to do.

01:58:47.000 So you're institutionalized?

01:58:49.000 I'm done, yeah.

01:58:49.000 I'm cooked.

01:58:51.000 That's what they always say.

01:58:52.000 I'm cooked.

01:58:53.000 I don't know what to do or how to do.

01:58:55.000 I don't know how to walk across the street.

01:58:56.000 And I'm afraid, because if I walk across a don't walk sign, I'm standing there.

01:58:59.000 Imagine standing in Brooklyn in front of a don't walk sign for like five minutes. 0.99

01:59:03.000 And there's no fucking cars. 0.94

01:59:05.000 I'm standing there waiting for the don't walk sign to turn so they have their hand or the people. 1.00

01:59:09.000 Because you just don't want to do anything stupid. 0.99

01:59:10.000 I don't want to do anything wrong. 1.00

01:59:11.000 Because they're following me everywhere I go.

01:59:13.000 Wow.

01:59:13.000 I don't want the news people snapping a picture of me walking across against the don't walk sign.

01:59:17.000 So the post guy comes up to me and says, Mike, I don't want to acknowledge him, but when I look at him, he goes, can you just sign this affidavit for me that this is you that I'm about to take you a picture of? 0.99

01:59:30.000 I go, do your fucking job and leave me alone, please. 0.98

01:59:33.000 Oh, sign an affidavit. 1.00

01:59:34.000 Yeah, sign an affidavit, because the other guy just sued the fucking Daily News. 0.99

01:59:37.000 That's hilarious. 0.99

01:59:39.000 Hilarious.

01:59:39.000 That's hilarious.

01:59:40.000 So I'm taking a shower.

01:59:41.000 This is my epic moment.

01:59:43.000 My first shower in freedom.

01:59:44.000 I talk about this often because it's epic.

01:59:48.000 And I'm looking out the window and there's my brother's two kids.

01:59:50.000 I don't know these kids.

01:59:51.000 I never met them.

01:59:53.000 I'm in my mother's apartment upstairs, my mother's house upstairs, looking out.

01:59:56.000 The shower has a window.

01:59:57.000 I'm looking out and I see these two little kids running across my brother's lawn next door.

02:00:01.000 My brother was a cop, retired because of me.

02:00:03.000 But he got a pension, thank God.

02:00:04.000 Anyway, that's another story.

02:00:06.000 He played good hockey player, so that's why he got his pension.

02:00:11.000 I see these two kids and I realize the loss that, you know...

02:00:15.000 I mean, the whole world took place while I walked that track by myself, you know?

02:00:19.000 Right.

02:00:20.000 And my brother, who idolized me to no end, now has two kids, and I don't even know mine. 0.99

02:00:27.000 And I'm like, oh my god, this is fucking horrible. 0.92

02:00:30.000 And now I've got to make a living. 0.84

02:00:32.000 And the first thing I want to do is help those that I left behind, you know?

02:00:38.000 Yours truly included.

02:00:40.000 And I'm like, I don't think I can do this. 0.97

02:00:44.000 And I'm in the fucking shower crying so hard that I don't know if I'm getting wet from the shower or my tears. 0.96

02:00:49.000 And, like, I don't know if you've ever cried in your life. 0.99

02:00:51.000 I'm a man.

02:00:52.000 I can say it.

02:00:53.000 Never.

02:00:54.000 I don't cry.

02:00:54.000 Okay.

02:00:55.000 I've wept so hard.

02:00:57.000 I wept so hard that I wanted to take a nap when I was done. 0.99

02:01:01.000 It was just like shit just kept pouring out of my body. 0.99

02:01:05.000 Wow. 1.00

02:01:05.000 My first shower in freedom was like I was getting all the poison of life. 1.00

02:01:11.000 You know, because, you know, you've got to realize...

02:01:14.000 At this time, at 44 years old, I have nothing.

02:01:19.000 Zero! 0.99

02:01:21.000 My whole life is a fucking zero at 44 years old. 1.00

02:01:25.000 But you still have kids and you have your freedom now. 0.99

02:01:28.000 I don't have anything.

02:01:28.000 But you're out.

02:01:29.000 I have nothing.

02:01:30.000 I don't have kids.

02:01:32.000 Someone else has kids.

02:01:33.000 I happen to be a guy that they heard about.

02:01:37.000 I have nothing.

02:01:40.000 It'd be easier for me to turn around and go back.

02:01:42.000 Wow.

02:01:43.000 So you really wanted to go back?

02:01:45.000 Of course I didn't want to.

02:01:47.000 You didn't want to.

02:01:47.000 It just seemed like the easiest thing to do was to go back.

02:01:51.000 And thank God, at that moment, I had good parents and solid family support and a couple of young kids that wanted to get to know me, you know?

02:02:07.000 I don't know what else to say.

02:02:09.000 I didn't know what to do.

02:02:10.000 I had to go earn a living. 0.99

02:02:12.000 I never had a fucking job in my life. 0.99

02:02:13.000 I was a cop! 0.99

02:02:15.000 So what did you do for a job after that?

02:02:17.000 Because it's gotta be hard to get a job.

02:02:19.000 I still can't get a job.

02:02:22.000 Do you want one?

02:02:24.000 Well, you got one for me?

02:02:25.000 If I had one, I'd give it to you.

02:02:26.000 Listen, I'm a good worker.

02:02:27.000 I need a real podcast network.

02:02:29.000 That's what I need.

02:02:30.000 I need to actually have a network.

02:02:32.000 Start giving guys like you shows. 0.95

02:02:35.000 Yeah, I couldn't get a fucking job, but my brother was doing some construction, and I mixed up with the construction industry for about four or five years, and I did pretty well. 0.97

02:02:43.000 And that was in the boom time, so anybody who could hold a brush in their hand or a hammer in their hand got a job, and they made a decent salary. 0.98

02:02:50.000 And I turned down some union office, because I have family that runs one of the unions, and I turned it down because I needed money now.

02:02:56.000 I wanted to try to help now.

02:02:58.000 And so I did what I could, and, you know, listen, they put an ankle bracelet on me when I got home, because I was banging one of the chicks from the halfway house. 0.98

02:03:12.000 You're not supposed to do that, by the way.

02:03:14.000 You're not supposed to?

02:03:14.000 No.

02:03:15.000 Why not?

02:03:15.000 I don't...

02:03:16.000 I don't...

02:03:17.000 They own you?

02:03:17.000 Are you free or you're not free?

02:03:19.000 No, well, because she's a convict, too. 0.97

02:03:20.000 So?

02:03:21.000 You can't associate with convicts?

02:03:22.000 Right.

02:03:22.000 But you're sleeping in the house with them?

02:03:24.000 Right. 1.00

02:03:24.000 But you can't fuck them? 1.00

02:03:25.000 Right. 1.00

02:03:25.000 Can you hug them? 1.00

02:03:26.000 No.

02:03:28.000 No patronizing or matronizing or sexualizing any of them. 1.00

02:03:32.000 So it was very difficult.

02:03:33.000 I broke the rule from the day.

02:03:34.000 I broke the first rule.

02:03:36.000 So did you get in trouble for that?

02:03:37.000 Yes.

02:03:38.000 Breaking that rule?

02:03:38.000 Eventually.

02:03:39.000 What do they do?

02:03:40.000 What do they say? 0.99

02:03:40.000 I tried to get rid of her because she was a psycho. 0.99

02:03:42.000 I found out. 0.98

02:03:43.000 Oh, gee, how weird.

02:03:44.000 Psycho ex-con?

02:03:45.000 That didn't even make sense.

02:03:46.000 Didn't make sense.

02:03:47.000 And I want to talk disparagingly about the dead, by the way.

02:03:49.000 She pissed.

02:03:49.000 Oh, what happened?

02:03:50.000 Yeah, I think on her liver or something.

02:03:52.000 Anyway, but horrible.

02:03:53.000 Horrible death.

02:03:54.000 But I had to get away from her, so I made a decision to go back to prison just to get away from her.

02:03:59.000 Really?

02:03:59.000 Yeah.

02:03:59.000 And she threatened to call, and she did.

02:04:02.000 She called my probation officer, and he came and put an ankle bracelet on me.

02:04:06.000 He spared me prison.

02:04:07.000 He put an ankle bracelet on me.

02:04:08.000 And then I got jammed up again with the ankle bracelet on because I... I said I was going to church, but I didn't.

02:04:15.000 Where'd you go?

02:04:16.000 I don't want to put it out there.

02:04:18.000 Okay.

02:04:18.000 But it wasn't bad.

02:04:19.000 It was at someone's house.

02:04:20.000 Right.

02:04:20.000 I was getting laid.

02:04:21.000 I understand.

02:04:22.000 They wouldn't let me leave my house.

02:04:24.000 Finally, I got out.

02:04:25.000 So you were under house arrest.

02:04:27.000 Is that what the...

02:04:27.000 Yes, yes.

02:04:28.000 The ankle bracelet does.

02:04:29.000 It keeps you within a beacon of the machine.

02:04:33.000 Yeah.

02:04:34.000 So I was willing to go back to prison to get rid of this relationship.

02:04:37.000 And...

02:04:40.000 I almost did, yeah.

02:04:42.000 Jesus Christ.

02:04:43.000 So that was my re-entry into society.

02:04:45.000 So how much time do you have to spend doing this halfway house thing before you're free?

02:04:48.000 Well, that's like, but what it is, you go from halfway house to home confinement, and then after home confinement, you go on to supervised release.

02:04:54.000 Home confinement, so you can find your home for during the...

02:04:58.000 During the hours of the, like, if you're not working, you're locked in your house, you know, and that's, yeah, yeah, so they can call at any minute and So you can't go to the movies?

02:05:06.000 No, but you can ask for permission to go shopping and things of that nature, you know, and then come back in.

02:05:10.000 It's all...

02:05:10.000 You're clocked.

02:05:11.000 You're checked constantly on your time.

02:05:13.000 I don't understand that.

02:05:14.000 Like, why is that if you're free?

02:05:15.000 If you're free, and if you can go to the movies...

02:05:18.000 Well, you're not free.

02:05:18.000 You're not free.

02:05:19.000 You're not free yet.

02:05:20.000 You're still part of your sentence, which is why I said 12 and a half years, not 11 years, nine months, because the last six months of my prison sentence was in the street.

02:05:28.000 Wow.

02:05:29.000 And then from there, you do five years of supervised release... 0.98

02:05:33.000 Which is when she called up on me when I broke up with her, you know, and he was fucking pissed. 0.87

02:05:38.000 I mean, how could you blame the guy? 0.99

02:05:39.000 I've been lying to him for like two, three years now at this point when she fucking drops a dime on me. 1.00

02:05:43.000 That's pussy. 1.00

02:05:44.000 It's pussy. 1.00

02:05:45.000 That's what I said. 1.00

02:05:45.000 He says, well, I'm going to tell you. 1.00

02:05:47.000 I said, look, you're going to tell the judge that I fell in love?

02:05:51.000 Yeah.

02:05:52.000 She was the love judge.

02:05:53.000 Judge Kimba Wood, the one who was all over the news.

02:05:56.000 What happened to her?

02:05:57.000 I don't know that story.

02:05:58.000 I don't want to talk bad about judges.

02:06:00.000 I may see them again.

02:06:00.000 Well, you don't have to talk bad.

02:06:02.000 No, she got jammed up with a relationship she was in.

02:06:04.000 And it was all over the news.

02:06:05.000 They disparaged her.

02:06:06.000 She didn't understand.

02:06:07.000 That's what I thought.

02:06:08.000 Nope.

02:06:09.000 She's not quite as understanding as you think. 1.00

02:06:11.000 Hypocrites. 1.00

02:06:13.000 How dare they. 1.00

02:06:14.000 So then, what do you eventually wind up doing for work?

02:06:19.000 So I continue on in the construction field, and I can't remember.

02:06:26.000 No, I can continue on.

02:06:27.000 Oh, limousine driving.

02:06:28.000 I ended up being a limousine driver.

02:06:29.000 The job that Kenny actually got me fired from before I went to prison, because I got a job driving a limousine for one hour, but never drove a limo.

02:06:36.000 Because, I don't want to tell you this story.

02:06:40.000 I'm about to get a job driving a limousine.

02:06:42.000 So Kenny goes, where you working?

02:06:43.000 Where you working?

02:06:44.000 Well, he's wearing a wire.

02:06:44.000 I go, I'm starting driving a limo tomorrow.

02:06:46.000 I'll have some decent pay.

02:06:47.000 All the plans about leaving the country are off. 0.80

02:06:51.000 Well, no one even fucking really knows the depth of this.

02:06:53.000 Right. 0.80

02:06:54.000 This is why we're out on bail.

02:06:55.000 So I go, I'm good.

02:06:56.000 If I get a job driving a limbo, make, you know, six, eight hundred a week for now.

02:07:00.000 I got a lot of money coming in, rental incomes, I'm good.

02:07:02.000 I had four homes and a condo on the ocean.

02:07:05.000 And so he turns around and he says, where, where, where?

02:07:10.000 I go, where? 0.99

02:07:10.000 What do you fucking care where? 0.99

02:07:12.000 He goes, well, in case I want a job. 1.00

02:07:15.000 So I go, I tell him, I don't know, it's in the fucking newspaper. 0.99

02:07:18.000 It's in Deer Park somewhere. 0.99

02:07:20.000 Boom.

02:07:21.000 Next day, I go to start the job.

02:07:23.000 I'm on my way in.

02:07:24.000 I just bought the last $300.

02:07:25.000 I bought a suit, black suit.

02:07:27.000 Guy goes, I go, I'm on my way.

02:07:28.000 I says, I haven't heard from you.

02:07:29.000 You're supposed to call me and tell me what time to be at the shop.

02:07:31.000 He goes, we got a problem.

02:07:34.000 I go, what's the problem?

02:07:35.000 He says, I got a visit.

02:07:37.000 I go, what?

02:07:38.000 He goes, I got a visit. 0.99

02:07:39.000 They're going to open my books and my taxes and leave me a new asshole if I give you a job here. 1.00

02:07:45.000 I said, you gotta be kidding me, motherfucker. 1.00

02:07:48.000 I just spent my last 300 cash because the government takes everything when they get you. 1.00

02:07:52.000 So now I can't even get a job fucking doing that while I'm out on bail, and I wouldn't have had the desperado to leave the fucking country. 0.98

02:07:58.000 So can he set that up? 0.99

02:07:59.000 I don't know.

02:08:01.000 Allegedly.

02:08:01.000 I don't know.

02:08:02.000 Possibly.

02:08:03.000 Probably.

02:08:04.000 I'm sure.

02:08:05.000 Yeah.

02:08:07.000 Wow.

02:08:08.000 So it wasn't just wearing a wire.

02:08:10.000 Come on.

02:08:10.000 It was conspiring.

02:08:12.000 It was just fucking ongoing. 0.99

02:08:13.000 You know, when he fucking walks around, he saves someone's life. 1.00

02:08:15.000 Yeah, you fucking ruined mine. 1.00

02:08:17.000 Wow. 0.99

02:08:17.000 Probably saved it in a way, too. 0.99

02:08:19.000 Yeah, I'm not mad.

02:08:20.000 Just keep it real.

02:08:23.000 He saved my life in a way.

02:08:24.000 Nah, you know what?

02:08:25.000 The cops saved my life.

02:08:26.000 They locked me up.

02:08:29.000 Wow. 1.00

02:08:30.000 I couldn't get a fucking package after that! 1.00

02:08:32.000 You're sitting on a goldmine, though. 1.00

02:08:34.000 You are sitting on a goldmine. 1.00

02:08:35.000 These fucking stories. 1.00

02:08:37.000 Oh, the stories are fucking ridiculous. 1.00

02:08:38.000 If you just write it, can you write? 1.00

02:08:41.000 Can you type?

02:08:42.000 I can do a lot of things.

02:08:44.000 My shoulder hurts, though.

02:08:46.000 Well, yeah, you keep doing this.

02:08:47.000 You keep doing this twist thing.

02:08:48.000 What's going on with it?

02:08:49.000 It's numb. 1.00

02:08:49.000 I got a fucking two-pinch. 1.00

02:08:50.000 A stinger in your neck? 1.00

02:08:51.000 I got two-pinched. 0.62

02:08:51.000 Two vertebrae. 0.62

02:08:53.000 What do you call this?

02:08:54.000 Have you ever...

02:08:55.000 Do you know what spinal decompression is?

02:08:56.000 I'm in treatment right now.

02:08:57.000 What are they doing for you?

02:08:58.000 I'm doing the physical therapy act. 0.99

02:09:00.000 I've had some serious spinal shit. 0.98

02:09:03.000 Bulging discs and stuff. 0.99

02:09:04.000 That's what I got.

02:09:05.000 Working out.

02:09:05.000 Yeah.

02:09:06.000 You can get rid of that.

02:09:08.000 I've got rid of it 100%.

02:09:08.000 I'm working on it right now.

02:09:09.000 I'm working on it.

02:09:10.000 Yeah.

02:09:11.000 It's a process.

02:09:12.000 You just got to do it slow.

02:09:13.000 And spinal decompression is a big thing too, stretching. 1.00

02:09:15.000 Like hanging by your neck and shit? 0.97

02:09:17.000 Well, they have these things that you can actually set up. 0.99

02:09:19.000 They're fairly cheap.

02:09:20.000 You just set them up on a door.

02:09:22.000 They hang off the back of the door like a little chain.

02:09:25.000 Actually, my friend Denny has one that he likes even better than that.

02:09:28.000 It's inflated, actually.

02:09:29.000 And you put it on your neck, and he's got some spinal issues too.

02:09:33.000 And it actually just lifts...

02:09:36.000 You inflate it.

02:09:37.000 You pump it up and it kind of like lifts up on your neck and stretches.

02:09:41.000 Because a lot of it is either injury or bad posture and everything gets compressed and it stays compressed and the discs pop out.

02:09:49.000 And what you got to do is relieve some of that compression.

02:09:52.000 And one of the ways is these...

02:09:54.000 I have this one.

02:09:55.000 It's like a harness.

02:09:55.000 I strap it under my chin.

02:09:57.000 I Velcro it in place.

02:09:58.000 And then I crank on it.

02:09:59.000 Click, click.

02:10:00.000 It pulls my neck.

02:10:01.000 Click, click.

02:10:02.000 It pulls my neck.

02:10:02.000 You're not nervous or afraid.

02:10:04.000 You might overdo something.

02:10:05.000 No, no, no.

02:10:06.000 It's not painful.

02:10:08.000 Listen, to change the subject for a second, you're right, but I appreciate the medical advice, you know, because I'm in pain.

02:10:17.000 But themikedow.com, people can get my, they can download the 75 from my website.

02:10:25.000 And after that, I might get 25 cents if they do that.

02:10:28.000 Oh, do you get a cut of that?

02:10:29.000 A little something.

02:10:31.000 So it would be nice.

02:10:32.000 I'll definitely send people.

02:10:33.000 It would be nice.

02:10:33.000 I mean, I lost my job due to the documentary.

02:10:35.000 What job was that?

02:10:37.000 I was doing mechanical services in a location that I'm still in flux with them, right? 0.96

02:10:44.000 Even when you're fucking describing a legit job, everything is... 0.91

02:10:48.000 Well, the problem is... 0.98

02:10:49.000 Well, you've got to understand something.

02:10:50.000 I lost...

02:10:51.000 The position because of my past.

02:10:55.000 So if I put their specific location...

02:10:58.000 Oh, I understand.

02:10:59.000 I'm still trying to work something out with them right now.

02:11:02.000 So they found out about your past?

02:11:03.000 They knew about it when they hired me, but the documentary became so compelling and riveting, so interesting and so detailed that probably some cop called up and said, I don't want my wife working with this guy around.

02:11:15.000 Right. 0.98

02:11:15.000 And the fucking CEO said, find a way to get rid of him. 0.98

02:11:18.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:11:19.000 Well...

02:11:20.000 Listen, they're doing you a favor. 1.00

02:11:22.000 I swear to God, you're sitting on a fucking goldmine. 1.00

02:11:24.000 These stories you have, and you have, I guarantee you, you probably have a fucking thousand of them. 1.00

02:11:29.000 All your years on a job? 0.98

02:11:31.000 Easily.

02:11:31.000 Ten years.

02:11:32.000 Ten years, five months I did in the street.

02:11:34.000 Yeah, you just need to sit down with somebody and write these out and then edit them and make the most compelling ones. 0.98

02:11:40.000 You could probably have a fucking 500-page book. 0.98

02:11:43.000 Oh, 500. I'm trying to cut it down. 1.00

02:11:46.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

02:11:46.000 I'm trying to cut it down.

02:11:47.000 But if you cut it down to the gems and just, you know, honest about all the fucking craziness and all the weird shit that's going on in your head and the family and the pussy and the drugs and... 1.00

02:12:00.000 God damn, it's a goldmine. 1.00

02:12:01.000 I'll fucking buy it. 1.00

02:12:02.000 I'll buy it in a goddamn heart rate. 1.00

02:12:04.000 You know, my friend Joey Diaz is a nut for crime books. 1.00

02:12:07.000 He's turning me on like a fucking hundred crime books. 1.00

02:12:10.000 He's always like, Joe Rogan, you gotta read this fucking book. 0.99

02:12:13.000 Do you have the kind of time to read? 0.99

02:12:14.000 Because today a lot of people don't.

02:12:15.000 That's good.

02:12:16.000 Well, you get on planes too.

02:12:18.000 Yeah, planes help.

02:12:19.000 That's a good time.

02:12:19.000 I just force myself a couple days a week to force myself to go to bed right before I go to bed to sit down and read something.

02:12:24.000 That's good.

02:12:25.000 And that's what I used to do in a joint.

02:12:27.000 I've read probably 400 or 500 books while I was away.

02:12:29.000 So I try to expand my vocabulary.

02:12:31.000 However, when you start talking police terms, your vocabulary narrows back to the vocabulary you use while you're doing your job.

02:12:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:12:39.000 Like, fuck you, motherfucker. 1.00

02:12:41.000 Get over here and get down. 1.00

02:12:42.000 Right now, let me see your fucking hands. 1.00

02:12:43.000 And don't fucking move. 1.00

02:12:45.000 Meanwhile, I want you to raise your hands. 0.98

02:12:47.000 Well, the audio books are great, too.

02:12:50.000 I love that, because I'm always stuck in traffic.

02:12:53.000 How do you like to sit across so far?

02:12:54.000 They're very good.

02:12:55.000 They're really not bad, right?

02:12:56.000 I put it down.

02:12:58.000 We're talking.

02:12:59.000 It's hard to keep it lit.

02:13:00.000 It's rude.

02:13:01.000 No, it was great.

02:13:02.000 It was good, though.

02:13:03.000 It's a good cigar.

02:13:03.000 It's a very solid cigar.

02:13:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:13:05.000 And it's funny.

02:13:06.000 It's got that guy's fucking face on it. 1.00

02:13:08.000 The little unibrow and everything. 1.00

02:13:10.000 The detail is really, really cool because it has the street.

02:13:13.000 In there.

02:13:14.000 You don't see it. 0.99

02:13:14.000 It has the location of his drug spot in the fucking van on the cigar. 0.99

02:13:19.000 Where can you buy these? 0.99

02:13:20.000 Well, we're working on them right now.

02:13:21.000 We're putting them together.

02:13:22.000 There's a big tobacco letter, they call it, in Dominican Republic, who saw the documentary.

02:13:28.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

02:13:29.000 And Adam didn't know.

02:13:32.000 I said, Adam, do you have a relationship with this company?

02:13:33.000 He says, yeah. 1.00

02:13:34.000 I said, well, go tell them who the fuck you are. 1.00

02:13:36.000 So he went and saw them. 1.00

02:13:38.000 And they saw the documentary.

02:13:40.000 And I think they listened to Artie's podcast with me or something. 0.99

02:13:43.000 And they went, holy fuck, yes, we got a cigar for you. 1.00

02:13:47.000 So he put his face on this fucking cigar. 1.00

02:13:49.000 I think I'm going to get mine to say the 7.5 on it. 1.00

02:13:51.000 Oh, that's a good move.

02:13:52.000 And Dowd, maybe.

02:13:53.000 That's not bad.

02:13:54.000 Even just Dowd.

02:13:56.000 Dowd cigars.

02:13:57.000 Now, this guy, Adam, is he stuck in...

02:14:00.000 He can't come here.

02:14:01.000 We can call him if you want to call him.

02:14:03.000 I mean, he's dying to say hello.

02:14:04.000 But you know who's really more interesting?

02:14:05.000 Who?

02:14:06.000 Walter.

02:14:07.000 Yeah?

02:14:07.000 Well, Walter seemed interesting.

02:14:09.000 Walt is pretty fucking... 0.98

02:14:10.000 You want me to give him a call? 0.99

02:14:11.000 Can we do that or no?

02:14:12.000 There's no need to do it now, but listen, this ain't the first podcast you and I are going to do.

02:14:16.000 I'm sure we've got many more things to talk about.

02:14:19.000 As more things come out and you start doing things, I'll be happy to help you promote it.

02:14:22.000 Oh, that'd be nice.

02:14:23.000 You'll have me back when the book comes out? 0.99

02:14:25.000 Fuck yeah. 0.99

02:14:26.000 When do you think that's going to... 1.00

02:14:27.000 Have you started?

02:14:29.000 It's in flux right now.

02:14:30.000 Because the thing is...

02:14:33.000 We've got to see a couple of publishers.

02:14:35.000 Right now, they're a little nervous. 0.99

02:14:36.000 What the fuck is wrong with them? 0.99

02:14:38.000 I don't know what to say. 1.00

02:14:39.000 Listen, you pussies. 1.00

02:14:39.000 I don't know what to say. 1.00

02:14:43.000 He's done the time. 1.00

02:14:43.000 Shut the fuck up and write the book. 1.00

02:14:45.000 People can't get behind a bad guy. 1.00

02:14:48.000 I did bad things.

02:14:49.000 I don't think I'm that bad of a guy.

02:14:50.000 You know what I mean?

02:14:51.000 I hope not anyway.

02:14:52.000 I've known a lot of bad guys.

02:14:54.000 I don't think you're a bad guy.

02:14:55.000 No, thank you. 1.00

02:14:56.000 I think you did bad shit. 1.00

02:14:56.000 But like I said, I could have done that same shit. 1.00

02:14:59.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:14:59.000 I think people being honest, if you're honest about circumstantial situations that you find yourself into and poor decision making and being young and doing drugs and then also being involved in a heinous crime riddled situation, 0.99

02:15:14.000 like your environment that you're in, you're going to these places, these ghettos, you're constantly around crime.

02:15:20.000 You're constantly around drugs.

02:15:21.000 And I got to imagine, like as you detailed in the documentary, the crime aspect of it slowly sort of started creeping in.

02:15:30.000 It gets you.

02:15:31.000 It gets you.

02:15:31.000 And I was young.

02:15:32.000 I was young and impressionable. 0.99

02:15:33.000 You know, when you see a 17-year-old kid in a Jaguar with a gooseneck fucking equalizer, he's the bomb, you know? 0.97

02:15:40.000 And he's got $25,000, $30,000 in his pockets, and he's got ropes and diamonds hanging on his neck. 1.00

02:15:47.000 I'm like, what the fuck? 0.99

02:15:48.000 What am I doing here? 0.99

02:15:50.000 Listen, it's wrong!

02:15:52.000 But it doesn't seem that wrong sometimes.

02:15:54.000 Do you remember the first piece of crime that you did while you were a cop? 1.00

02:15:58.000 You never forget your first pussy. 1.00

02:16:01.000 Pussy, like it's an object. 1.00

02:16:03.000 First woman, excuse me, pardon me, people. 1.00

02:16:06.000 First woman you've had sexual relations with. 0.94

02:16:09.000 Not with that one.

02:16:11.000 Who's that?

02:16:12.000 Not with that one.

02:16:14.000 Monica.

02:16:15.000 Anyway, Monica Lewinsky. 1.00

02:16:17.000 I did not have sexual relations.

02:16:18.000 He did one of these things with the thumb.

02:16:20.000 I did not have...

02:16:22.000 But his finger bent!

02:16:23.000 He did something. 1.00

02:16:24.000 Fucker. 1.00

02:16:26.000 He had cigars and everything in it. 0.99

02:16:28.000 He should have had one of these.

02:16:29.000 He should have.

02:16:33.000 Well, that's another story of a rat, right?

02:16:35.000 Not even her, the other chick. 1.00

02:16:36.000 The ugly one. 0.97

02:16:37.000 Remember the whole story?

02:16:38.000 Oh, that one.

02:16:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:16:39.000 The blonde?

02:16:40.000 No, Monica Lewinsky was friends with some old hag that ratted him out. 1.00

02:16:44.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.97

02:16:45.000 No, the blonde was a different one. 1.00

02:16:47.000 Clint was on a rampant.

02:16:48.000 Yeah, he did good. 0.99

02:16:49.000 He's the last great American dick-slinging president. 0.98

02:16:52.000 Yeah, yeah, because now you're not allowed. 0.99

02:16:53.000 You're not allowed anymore.

02:16:54.000 We lost what it meant to be. 1.00

02:16:56.000 Do you think Putin's laughing at these fucking idiots? 1.00

02:16:59.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

02:16:59.000 Laughing. 1.00

02:16:59.000 Please, I don't want to get into it. 1.00

02:17:01.000 Laughing.

02:17:02.000 Ha, ha, ha.

02:17:03.000 Checkmate. 1.00

02:17:04.000 He gets head and then shoots the hooker and throws her off the top of the Kremlin. 1.00

02:17:07.000 Perfect. 0.99

02:17:08.000 No witness.

02:17:11.000 It doesn't matter if it's a witness.

02:17:12.000 He doesn't care. 0.96

02:17:14.000 He doesn't even have to shoot them. 0.82

02:17:15.000 They got nuclear poisoning drops for these people.

02:17:17.000 Oh, they have all kinds of things.

02:17:19.000 But do you remember the first crime that you committed?

02:17:24.000 Well, the one I talk about often is... 0.99

02:17:27.000 If you're not doing what you're supposed to do by the book, you're on the edge of committing a crime every fucking day. 0.95

02:17:32.000 So every time you even let somebody off when they're supposed to be arrested. 0.87

02:17:35.000 Yeah, you basically have committed a crime, you know, because you've used this as a discretion in an area where there was no discretion.

02:17:42.000 But the thing I talk about is when I took the money from the Hispanic kid, the Puerto Rican kid. 0.94

02:17:48.000 In the movie, I talk about it.

02:17:50.000 Yeah, what was that situation?

02:17:51.000 Well, he had what we call the Puerto Rican mystery at the time.

02:17:55.000 The Puerto Rican mystery?

02:17:56.000 Yeah, I mean, listen, I love Puerto Ricans.

02:17:57.000 They're my favorite people in the world.

02:17:58.000 They're fun people.

02:17:59.000 They're the best.

02:17:59.000 You know, they got the Remy.

02:18:00.000 They got everything going on, the bodegas.

02:18:02.000 I love them.

02:18:03.000 They helped me grow up.

02:18:04.000 I love them.

02:18:05.000 And they ruin me at the same time.

02:18:07.000 They love them.

02:18:08.000 And they ruin me at the same time.

02:18:09.000 So what happened was, there's this vet driving down in the ghetto.

02:18:13.000 And you see a vet in the ghetto, you're going to notice it, right?

02:18:15.000 I mean, look at me.

02:18:17.000 I put it in a lieutenant's spot because I've got to be noticed.

02:18:19.000 So this kid's got this vet, and I pull him over, and he's got nothing.

02:18:23.000 I mean, nothing.

02:18:24.000 No license plates.

02:18:26.000 No insurance. 1.00

02:18:27.000 I mean, no plates on the fucking car. 1.00

02:18:28.000 Just driving it. 0.99

02:18:31.000 So, but I noticed he had a thick wad of hundreds in his fanny pack back then, you know?

02:18:35.000 I still wear one.

02:18:36.000 How dare you say back then?

02:18:37.000 See that? 1.00

02:18:38.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

02:18:39.000 But yours is dual. 1.00

02:18:40.000 Respect.

02:18:40.000 Yours is dual.

02:18:41.000 You know, it's got a zipper on here, too.

02:18:43.000 Oh, you got the whole thing.

02:18:43.000 Let me tell you something.

02:18:44.000 Come on.

02:18:45.000 I started wearing one again not too long ago.

02:18:47.000 I wear one. 0.99

02:18:47.000 I don't give a fuck. 0.99

02:18:48.000 I'm married. 1.00

02:18:48.000 I'm not trying to get any pussy. 1.00

02:18:49.000 Yeah, you don't need to. 1.00

02:18:50.000 If you're not trying to get laid, you wear a fanny pack.

02:18:52.000 Good for you.

02:18:52.000 Like a man.

02:18:53.000 There you go.

02:18:53.000 Even if I was trying to get laid.

02:18:55.000 Any girl won't fuck you with a fanny pack, you don't want to fuck her. 1.00

02:18:59.000 That's what I think. 1.00

02:19:00.000 It's too much work.

02:19:01.000 I don't need you.

02:19:01.000 I don't have to dress up for you.

02:19:03.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

02:19:03.000 So there you go. 1.00

02:19:05.000 Will I have to wear cologne next?

02:19:06.000 No, don't do any cologne.

02:19:08.000 Don't do the cologne, please. 1.00

02:19:09.000 Fuck that. 1.00

02:19:09.000 Never. 1.00

02:19:10.000 Headaches.

02:19:10.000 I get headaches.

02:19:11.000 I wouldn't want to do it.

02:19:12.000 Should I pull a guy off?

02:19:13.000 I respect.

02:19:14.000 I pull the guy over, and he goes, um...

02:19:16.000 I got nothing. 1.00

02:19:17.000 But he's got Benjamins and Franklins in his fucking bag. 1.00

02:19:20.000 Right. 0.99

02:19:21.000 So I decide that he could buy us a nice lobster lunch, because, you know, everybody eats lobster for lunch.

02:19:25.000 Right.

02:19:26.000 So he says...

02:19:28.000 I said, so, you know, Lop's the lunch kid, you know?

02:19:31.000 He goes, yeah, yeah?

02:19:33.000 I go, yeah.

02:19:34.000 I said, and leave it on the back seat.

02:19:36.000 I don't want you handing me nothing.

02:19:37.000 Right, right, right.

02:19:38.000 Because I'm scared.

02:19:38.000 Right.

02:19:39.000 I don't want someone to see it.

02:19:40.000 So this is the first thing.

02:19:41.000 Yeah, it's the first thing.

02:19:42.000 Oh, that's right, yeah. 0.99

02:19:42.000 So he leaves a couple bucks on the fucking back seat. 0.99

02:19:45.000 I don't know if it was $100 or $200 or $100. 0.99

02:19:46.000 Well, there's no back seat in the Corvette.

02:19:48.000 Yeah, but this was the back seat of the police car that I had.

02:19:50.000 Oh, I see.

02:19:51.000 Yeah.

02:19:51.000 Okay.

02:19:52.000 Oh, he was in the car.

02:19:53.000 He was under arrest, basically.

02:19:56.000 He's in the car.

02:19:57.000 And so he just takes a couple of hundreds out of his pocket. 1.00

02:19:59.000 Leaves it on the fucking seat. 0.99

02:20:01.000 Thank you, sir. 1.00

02:20:02.000 Okay, you have a nice day.

02:20:03.000 I don't ever want to see you again, you hear me?

02:20:05.000 I'm down-patterning.

02:20:06.000 I'm scared to death.

02:20:07.000 How long had you been on the job at this point?

02:20:09.000 About two years, a year and a half.

02:20:11.000 Wow.

02:20:12.000 So for a year and a half, straight as an arrow.

02:20:15.000 Six months and eight, Adam.

02:20:17.000 Six months in the academy, but that doesn't really count.

02:20:19.000 Yeah, a year in training.

02:20:21.000 A year in training.

02:20:22.000 So now I'm in East New York, and I see money.

02:20:24.000 Wow.

02:20:25.000 So it's really only a couple months on the job.

02:20:27.000 A couple of months.

02:20:29.000 Free.

02:20:30.000 Free.

02:20:31.000 Actually under your own discretion.

02:20:32.000 Right, because you've got to realize I saw quite a bit go on in my training.

02:20:35.000 Now, what did you see in your training?

02:20:36.000 Well, I was confronted with a...

02:20:38.000 This is an odd story.

02:20:40.000 I was confronted with training officers, but by the time I get to training, they had 3,600 cops graduate the academy the same day.

02:20:46.000 Okay?

02:20:47.000 Now, just think about that.

02:20:48.000 That's the size of the sixth largest police department in the country. 1.00

02:20:51.000 And now we hit the street like a bunch of fucking cockroaches going everywhere, right? 1.00

02:20:55.000 Right. 1.00

02:20:57.000 And we don't know what the fuck we're doing. 0.97

02:20:58.000 That's the last thing a cop knows what he's doing when he's at the academy is nothing. 0.98

02:21:00.000 He has no clue.

02:21:01.000 Okay?

02:21:02.000 All he knows is it's like an accountant who graduates accounting school and says, go check this guy's books.

02:21:06.000 Oh my God!

02:21:08.000 Right. 1.00

02:21:08.000 You know, what the fuck you're doing? 1.00

02:21:09.000 Actually doing it in practice. 0.99

02:21:10.000 Yeah, how are you doing it?

02:21:11.000 Right.

02:21:11.000 You're like, okay.

02:21:12.000 You know, one of the first things that happened to me, I walked out of Madison Square Garden.

02:21:17.000 It was graduation day.

02:21:18.000 My father's day.

02:21:18.000 My father's a retired fireman.

02:21:20.000 He's standing there with me.

02:21:21.000 We're walking down the street and I'm wearing the dress blues of Sharp looking, pretty young, haven't shaved yet.

02:21:27.000 And some woman comes walking up to me, officer, officer. 1.00

02:21:30.000 And I'm looking like this. 1.00

02:21:32.000 Where's the fucking officer? 1.00

02:21:34.000 My father goes, that's you. 1.00

02:21:36.000 Wow.

02:21:37.000 I go, yes, ma'am.

02:21:39.000 Yes, ma'am.

02:21:39.000 She goes, do you know where the Empire State Building is?

02:21:41.000 So I go, I'm trying to find the Empire State Building.

02:21:44.000 I'm on 34th Street in Manhattan.

02:21:46.000 Where's the Empire State Building?

02:21:48.000 34th Street in Manhattan, 5th Avenue.

02:21:50.000 It's two blocks straight in front of me, right?

02:21:52.000 Right.

02:21:53.000 So I go, I'm looking around.

02:21:54.000 I go, I'm going to stand it.

02:21:55.000 Go down two blocks, make a left, right?

02:21:57.000 Right.

02:21:57.000 Just make a left.

02:21:58.000 That's what you tell people.

02:22:00.000 So my father goes, Mike, it's straight ahead.

02:22:02.000 I go, what the?

02:22:03.000 Oh, yeah.

02:22:04.000 Go straight ahead up there.

02:22:05.000 It's on your right.

02:22:06.000 And then you look up.

02:22:06.000 You see the spire at the top of the Empire State Building right there.

02:22:09.000 So, anyway, that was my first day, you know, of being a cop.

02:22:12.000 I didn't know.

02:22:13.000 I actually am on now.

02:22:15.000 Right.

02:22:15.000 Now you're actually a cop.

02:22:16.000 Now I am on.

02:22:16.000 Now I realize the magnitude of this uniform you got on.

02:22:19.000 People come to you.

02:22:20.000 Right. 1.00

02:22:21.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

02:22:21.000 But what did you see? 1.00

02:22:22.000 It's going to be serious.

02:22:22.000 What did you see in the academy?

02:22:24.000 No, in training.

02:22:25.000 In training.

02:22:26.000 It's past the academy. 1.00

02:22:27.000 Academy is a bunch of shit. 1.00

02:22:28.000 So, in training, now I do six months in the street by myself. 1.00

02:22:34.000 Because they're training the other rookies first.

02:22:37.000 I was in the second tier of training.

02:22:38.000 So now I'm learning the street a little bit, you know, I'm learning how to get a donut, you know, whatever.

02:22:44.000 You're learning how to get a donut?

02:22:46.000 I'm learning how to get a donut, you know.

02:22:47.000 Would you say hi?

02:22:48.000 Because they give cops free food, right, most places?

02:22:51.000 Well, they did.

02:22:52.000 Legitimate establishments?

02:22:53.000 Legitimate establishments, yeah.

02:22:55.000 You know, but sometimes, some places do, some places didn't back then.

02:22:57.000 Really?

02:22:58.000 If they didn't, you didn't go back.

02:23:00.000 I thought everybody did.

02:23:01.000 Well, you would think it's not a crime, but it is.

02:23:04.000 It's a crime? 1.00

02:23:04.000 It's a fucking crime. 1.00

02:23:06.000 What? 1.00

02:23:06.000 Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. 1.00

02:23:07.000 Wait a minute.

02:23:08.000 Wait a minute.

02:23:10.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:23:11.000 It's a crime to give cops a free meal?

02:23:14.000 It's a crime.

02:23:16.000 That's wrong.

02:23:17.000 Yeah.

02:23:17.000 That's wrong.

02:23:18.000 That's fucked up. 1.00

02:23:18.000 You could give your construction worker a free fucking meal. 1.00

02:23:21.000 What about a fireman? 1.00

02:23:22.000 Can you give a fireman a free meal?

02:23:23.000 Same thing.

02:23:23.000 That's a crime?

02:23:24.000 Right.

02:23:25.000 Whoa.

02:23:25.000 But they cook for themselves nice.

02:23:27.000 They cook a nice meal in their firehouse, which I end up going to them quite a bit.

02:23:30.000 But anyway, so now I'm committing crimes.

02:23:34.000 No.

02:23:35.000 Now you're wandering around trying to get donuts.

02:23:38.000 Right, I'm getting donuts, and I'm running to radio calls.

02:23:42.000 You get to see cops running in uniform. 0.96

02:23:45.000 It's a little silly.

02:23:46.000 Right, because you're walking the beat.

02:23:48.000 Because you're walking the beat, but you're a rookie.

02:23:50.000 1054, which is an aided case.

02:23:52.000 Someone's got a hernia, whatever. 0.97

02:23:54.000 Where, location, you don't know what the fuck it is. 0.98

02:23:56.000 You start running. 0.99

02:23:58.000 Four blocks later, you see the patrol car sitting there. 0.99

02:24:00.000 And they're like, kid, you don't fucking run to these things. 0.96

02:24:03.000 That's what I think a patrol car's for. 0.96

02:24:05.000 Oh, okay, we just wanted to help out.

02:24:07.000 I want to see something!

02:24:08.000 I'm standing on Queens Boulevard, 80 mile an hour wind, blowing my skirt up all day long.

02:24:12.000 I want to see something.

02:24:13.000 You're waiting to see some action.

02:24:14.000 Something, right.

02:24:15.000 So anyway, this goes on for six months.

02:24:17.000 So finally, my first tour in the car, I get with these two veteran detectives who have 22 years on the job each.

02:24:22.000 And the precinct that I was in had just finished their scandal in the newspaper.

02:24:26.000 It was called the 110 Sergeant's Club, who my neighbor actually was involved in.

02:24:30.000 He went to jail.

02:24:30.000 But anyway, so getting right to the meat of it.

02:24:33.000 So he says to me, this veteran, he goes, you know, the last guy...

02:24:38.000 Don't ask me how this conversation started.

02:24:39.000 He goes, the last guy that's connected with the scandal, he fell over a railing on the fifth floor during a Christmas party in the snow.

02:24:49.000 And he died.

02:24:51.000 I said, well, what do you mean? 0.99

02:24:53.000 They go, what it is, is he was a rat. 0.70

02:24:56.000 He told on the cops in the 110 precinct, and he fell over the top of the railing. 1.00

02:25:03.000 I said, how do you fall over the top of a fucking railing? 0.99

02:25:07.000 Right, you're being... 0.99

02:25:08.000 It's a four-foot broad-iron railing.

02:25:10.000 How do you go over the top of it?

02:25:12.000 Right.

02:25:14.000 He just did.

02:25:15.000 He just managed to.

02:25:17.000 I don't know if they considered it a suicide or accidental death, but it was not a homicide.

02:25:22.000 So they told me, that's what happens when you turn in another cop.

02:25:27.000 So I said, okay, I'm on the job now.

02:25:29.000 A little less than a year.

02:25:31.000 Six months in the academy, six months chasing people around.

02:25:33.000 I didn't know what I was doing, eating donuts.

02:25:35.000 And now I'm being told by veteran cops that that's what happens if you tell a cop.

02:25:39.000 That they murder people?

02:25:41.000 Well, that things can happen.

02:25:44.000 Right.

02:25:45.000 Mysterious.

02:25:45.000 You can mysteriously get injured.

02:25:47.000 Doesn't seem that mysterious.

02:25:49.000 How old are you now?

02:25:50.000 48. Okay.

02:25:52.000 Back then?

02:25:53.000 It was pretty mysterious.

02:25:54.000 Back then I was scared to ask what happened to him, okay?

02:25:56.000 I'm good.

02:25:57.000 But I think I put the dots together.

02:25:59.000 Yes, I bet you did.

02:25:59.000 Don't tell on a cop.

02:26:00.000 Right.

02:26:01.000 So right away you're like, okay.

02:26:02.000 Done.

02:26:02.000 That's done.

02:26:03.000 And then within a week or two I see him robbing fucking cocaine from spots I wasn't allowed. 0.99

02:26:07.000 Same guys. 0.99

02:26:08.000 Same crew, not them, but same...

02:26:11.000 Right.

02:26:11.000 So you're seeing right away...

02:26:13.000 It was in Corona, Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, which is called the cocaine capital of New York.

02:26:18.000 Actually, the world at the time was more than Miami because it was where they called Little Columbia.

02:26:23.000 All the major Colombian cartels were shipping their cocaine to Jackson Heights and Corona and were being shipped out around the whole metropolitan area from there.

02:26:31.000 And it was huge.

02:26:33.000 Because they had the airports. 0.98

02:26:35.000 They're fucking Kennedy and LaGuardia. 0.99

02:26:37.000 They ran them. 1.00

02:26:38.000 They ran all the fucking transportation in and out of those locations. 0.99

02:26:41.000 So they would get jobs or get people that would get jobs doing that? 1.00

02:26:44.000 Pilots.

02:26:45.000 Baggage handlers.

02:26:46.000 Baggage handlers. 0.99

02:26:47.000 It was fucking like a free-for-all. 1.00

02:26:50.000 Wow. 0.99

02:26:50.000 So I'm working in this low-profile precinct, but that's what really was going on in there. 0.99

02:26:56.000 Right.

02:26:57.000 And anyway...

02:26:59.000 What else is there to say about it?

02:27:00.000 So you're right away you're seeing crime.

02:27:01.000 So I'm exposed to what's going on.

02:27:02.000 Right away.

02:27:03.000 Right away. 1.00

02:27:03.000 So you're being indoctrinated like almost instantaneously to all this shit. 1.00

02:27:06.000 I've seen a lot of things that don't add up. 0.99

02:27:08.000 Right.

02:27:08.000 And now I leave there and I go to the ghetto.

02:27:11.000 I'm like, okay, I really should have stayed in fucking school. 0.98

02:27:15.000 Because this doesn't look right. 0.99

02:27:17.000 I got tears in my eyes.

02:27:18.000 I got Elvis in the ghetto playing on my God Strike Me Dead.

02:27:23.000 I'm driving down Sutter Avenue. 0.99

02:27:24.000 I just got graduated from fucking Queens to East New York. 0.99

02:27:27.000 And there comes In the Ghetto. 0.99

02:27:29.000 It's the song In the Ghetto.

02:27:30.000 And Mama cries. 0.99

02:27:33.000 And I got fucking tears in my eyes. 0.99

02:27:35.000 Oh my God, I should have stayed in school. 1.00

02:27:37.000 You're just hating your choice.

02:27:39.000 You're just stuck.

02:27:40.000 Scared!

02:27:41.000 Scared.

02:27:41.000 Scared!

02:27:42.000 How long was it before you saw your first dead body?

02:27:45.000 I had already seen that, because that guy actually fell from a roof.

02:27:48.000 Oh, you saw the guy?

02:27:49.000 I've seen plenty of dead bodies by that point.

02:27:50.000 Probably half a dozen at that point.

02:27:52.000 So you actually saw the guy who fell from the roof?

02:27:54.000 No, no, no.

02:27:55.000 I saw a guy that fell from a roof, though.

02:27:56.000 I know what happens.

02:27:57.000 Oh, a different one.

02:27:57.000 Your head gets egg-shaped.

02:28:00.000 He committed suicide. 0.99

02:28:01.000 Oh, okay.

02:28:01.000 Anyway, that was one of my first DOAs.

02:28:04.000 So now you're in the ghetto, and you're there, and you're scared, and you're saying, you've got to sink or swim, you know?

02:28:11.000 It's time.

02:28:11.000 Either you're in the sink or you've got to swim.

02:28:13.000 And I had a choice to make, so I learned to swim quick, and I was probably in the precinct a day I saw my first murder, and then...

02:28:23.000 A day?

02:28:24.000 Yeah, but it wasn't my case, so I really didn't handle it.

02:28:27.000 A couple of stabbings, and then my first midnight shift, Jesus gets shot.

02:28:30.000 Jesus gets shot in my first midnight shift. 0.52

02:28:32.000 Jesus.

02:28:33.000 What happened to him?

02:28:35.000 The story goes like this.

02:28:36.000 I'm working with my buddy Sal, a nice guy.

02:28:39.000 He's a little older than me, a little more mature.

02:28:41.000 He's really ready for this action, but he's not an active guy.

02:28:43.000 So he just wants to do his shift and go home.

02:28:45.000 Great.

02:28:46.000 But I'm not.

02:28:46.000 I'm like, I want to be a cop.

02:28:47.000 I want to do police work.

02:28:49.000 Two guys work with a crowbar down the street or a tire iron down the street.

02:28:52.000 It's 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock in the morning.

02:28:55.000 I'm like, Sal, that looks a little suspicious.

02:28:57.000 He goes, what? 1.00

02:28:58.000 I go, the fucking guy's got a tire iron in his hand. 1.00

02:29:01.000 A little suspicious. 1.00

02:29:02.000 What do you think?

02:29:03.000 Mike, do you really want to get involved?

02:29:06.000 I go, well, that's what we're supposed to do.

02:29:08.000 We're the police.

02:29:08.000 We're supposed to ask some questions.

02:29:09.000 I mean, a guy's got a tire on.

02:29:10.000 It's 2 in the morning.

02:29:11.000 What do you think?

02:29:12.000 All right.

02:29:13.000 So I make a U-turn, go the wrong way on Fulton Street, right by Cleveland, one of those streets, Cleveland, Fulton.

02:29:24.000 We're going back to check up on these guys.

02:29:26.000 We drove past them.

02:29:27.000 Now we're going back. 0.99

02:29:28.000 And all of a sudden, we pull up and there's a fucking scene in the middle of the street. 1.00

02:29:31.000 Guy's got a hole in his head. 0.99

02:29:32.000 He's laying on the ground, obviously dead already.

02:29:35.000 And I see a tire iron sitting right here like this, right?

02:29:40.000 But he's here and the tire iron's over here about 15 feet away.

02:29:46.000 And I go, what happened?

02:29:48.000 They go, these two guys, I said, the tire iron?

02:29:51.000 They go, yeah, the tire iron's right there.

02:29:53.000 It was them, but the tire iron, they ran.

02:29:55.000 So they shot this kid Jesus.

02:29:57.000 He probably went out and confronted them and said, what are you guys doing in the neighborhood with a tire iron?

02:30:03.000 You know, stealing cars, tires and hubs, whatever they could get.

02:30:08.000 So he confronted them, they shot and killed him, and they took off in the wind.

02:30:13.000 So I go to Sal, I go, you know what?

02:30:15.000 Not for nothing.

02:30:17.000 I'm glad we didn't stop him first, but Jesus did.

02:30:21.000 So that was my first actual shooting that I was the, what they call the first responding officer on the scene up.

02:30:26.000 I was there about probably a week and a half.

02:30:28.000 Wow.

02:30:28.000 So I see my first murder in a week and a half, and this is before the crack.

02:30:32.000 This is before the crack.

02:30:33.000 So this is just straight violence, poverty, ghetto. 1.00

02:30:39.000 Let's just kill this guy because he confronted me. 1.00

02:30:41.000 It's crazy the idea that the poverty and the ghetto was already fucked up. 1.00

02:30:45.000 The amazing thing was that it probably could have been us or they would have ran. 0.95

02:30:48.000 Most people try not to shoot it out with the police.

02:30:50.000 Right.

02:30:51.000 You know, it's dark.

02:30:52.000 He just could've...

02:30:53.000 Right. 0.99

02:30:53.000 And then I wouldn't have all this shit to talk about. 0.99

02:30:56.000 Or more to talk about. 0.99

02:30:57.000 Or more to talk about.

02:30:58.000 Yeah.

02:30:59.000 Or who knows?

02:31:00.000 Yeah. 0.93

02:31:00.000 It's just amazing that the crack came along and accelerated what was already fucked up. 0.93

02:31:06.000 Yeah, you know, I don't know what to say. 0.97

02:31:08.000 It was just...

02:31:09.000 It was amazing.

02:31:11.000 I'll tell you the one thing that was interesting.

02:31:13.000 During the crack thing, when he took the cocaine from the Panamanian government in the...

02:31:21.000 The Panamanian Army was involved in bringing a lot of cocaine with Noriega into our country. 1.00

02:31:29.000 Back then it was the Kango hats. 1.00

02:31:31.000 I don't know if you're familiar with the Kango's. 1.00

02:31:33.000 Remember the Kango's? 1.00

02:31:34.000 Oh, the Kango hats. 1.00

02:31:35.000 They were getting robbed from people.

02:31:36.000 So there's one kid.

02:31:37.000 People are stealing Kango's. 0.99

02:31:38.000 They're fucking killing each other for the triple fat goose, right? 0.99

02:31:42.000 The triple fat goose, the Nike Airs, and the Kango hats. 0.99

02:31:46.000 So this kid robs this guy for his Kango hat. 0.99

02:31:49.000 Someone calls 911 on robbery suspect.

02:31:51.000 He runs into a home over on, I think it was Van Sicklen, one of those streets up there, right off Atlantic Avenue.

02:31:57.000 And he had been up on...

02:31:59.000 The kid came off the subway when the kid standing there waiting for him, stole his Kango at gunpoint, and ran into his own home.

02:32:05.000 So he knock on the door where the kid lives. 0.99

02:32:07.000 He won't open the fucking door. 1.00

02:32:08.000 The kid, shut up. 1.00

02:32:09.000 I ain't opening the door for you. 0.99

02:32:11.000 So he goes back upstairs and hides the kid.

02:32:15.000 That was a two-family home.

02:32:16.000 The people downstairs opened the door to a common hallway.

02:32:18.000 Because they see the police. 0.99

02:32:19.000 They don't want to fucking... 0.98

02:32:20.000 They didn't do nothing wrong. 0.99

02:32:21.000 They opened the door.

02:32:21.000 They go upstairs.

02:32:22.000 The place has the shoes. 1.00

02:32:24.000 The fucking beads separating each room. 1.00

02:32:26.000 You ever see the beads that separate the rooms? 1.00

02:32:28.000 Why do they do that?

02:32:28.000 So people make noise when they go through the room?

02:32:30.000 No, it's sort of like you're supposed to know that this is two different rooms when they hang the beads.

02:32:33.000 Oh, okay.

02:32:34.000 You know, that's like, this is a door, but it's really not, you know?

02:32:37.000 Right.

02:32:37.000 You can see pretty good.

02:32:38.000 So this is how it was.

02:32:40.000 That's how the ghetto is, you know?

02:32:41.000 Or they hang a curtain in two different rooms.

02:32:45.000 So we get inside and we see all the shoes and all the money that's spent in this place if something's up.

02:32:49.000 So we grab the kid.

02:32:51.000 The kid downstairs says, that's him.

02:32:52.000 We can't find a gun.

02:32:53.000 So we end up going downstairs in the basement. 0.99

02:32:55.000 That's when you see me in the movie talk about the story where we found this fucking... 0.99

02:33:00.000 We call it a suitcase. 0.99

02:33:01.000 A wooden suitcase. 0.99

02:33:02.000 It was fucking like... 0.99

02:33:03.000 It was like two inch ply almost. 0.99

02:33:05.000 That's how thick this suitcase was wrapped in leather.

02:33:07.000 I couldn't get it open. 0.97

02:33:08.000 I'm like, I'm a pretty fucking strong guy. 0.97

02:33:10.000 I couldn't get it open. 0.96

02:33:11.000 I'm trying to rip this thing open.

02:33:12.000 I don't have the combination.

02:33:13.000 There's no one standing there with the key.

02:33:14.000 So finally, one of my partner comes up with a hacksaw. 0.98

02:33:17.000 And I start hacksawing this fucking thing open. 0.98

02:33:20.000 What am I worried about? 0.99

02:33:21.000 I'm worried about the police.

02:33:22.000 There's police all around.

02:33:23.000 This is an armed robbery suspect.

02:33:24.000 So there's a half a dozen cops milling in and out of the place. 0.84

02:33:27.000 I killed my buddy.

02:33:28.000 Watch the staircase, because we're down in the basement now. 1.00

02:33:30.000 I cut this thing open, and when you finally get it open, the plume of fucking cocaine comes flying out, and it smells like that bubble gum shit that's delicious. 0.99

02:33:38.000 So I'm like, holy shit, we hit pay dirt here. 1.00

02:33:42.000 I'm trying to get the shit out. 1.00

02:33:45.000 My partner goes, they're coming, they're coming. 0.99

02:33:47.000 I'm like, who?

02:33:47.000 He goes, the owner.

02:33:48.000 I go, no!

02:33:50.000 Never mind the police.

02:33:51.000 The owner of the coke is coming.

02:33:53.000 What do we do?

02:33:54.000 We can't lock him up.

02:33:55.000 We're stealing his coke, you know?

02:33:57.000 Right.

02:33:57.000 It's like the worst position to be in.

02:34:00.000 Finally, I'm walking out.

02:34:01.000 I put 12 pounds on trying to get this coke out of his house. 0.99

02:34:04.000 And he's looking at me like I stole something from him.

02:34:07.000 I feel guilty.

02:34:08.000 And I go, is that your stuff?

02:34:10.000 He goes, no, no, not mine.

02:34:11.000 I go, okay.

02:34:11.000 See you later.

02:34:14.000 So I get in a patrol car.

02:34:15.000 We go to the bodega.

02:34:16.000 We weigh it. 1.00

02:34:17.000 On a fucking scale. 1.00

02:34:18.000 How much? 1.00

02:34:19.000 It was like a pound and a half, something like that.

02:34:21.000 A pound and a half of cocaine is a lot of money, right?

02:34:23.000 Well, at that point, yeah, it was like, we got $28,000 for it.

02:34:27.000 We got $28,000 for it.

02:34:29.000 So, I bought a condo.

02:34:30.000 That's when I bought the condo.

02:34:33.000 At least you were investing.

02:34:35.000 That's actually smart.

02:34:36.000 Yeah.

02:34:36.000 It's very smart.

02:34:38.000 A lot of...

02:34:38.000 I mean, you said you had four houses and a condom.

02:34:40.000 Like, that's actually...

02:34:41.000 For a guy doing blow, robbing people...

02:34:43.000 I wasn't doing blow at this time.

02:34:44.000 At the time.

02:34:45.000 Just selling it.

02:34:46.000 Right.

02:34:47.000 No.

02:34:47.000 Or stealing it and then selling it.

02:34:49.000 Then selling it.

02:34:49.000 Yeah, I mean, you were selling it.

02:34:50.000 Technically.

02:34:52.000 Yeah, any time you transfer cocaine, by the way, if you give me a half of eight ball right now, you've sold it.

02:34:56.000 Really?

02:34:57.000 Whether you take money for it or not.

02:34:58.000 Just remember that.

02:34:59.000 Now I know.

02:35:00.000 What about pot?

02:35:01.000 Don't give me anything.

02:35:01.000 Same thing.

02:35:02.000 When you transfer something, you don't have to give money for it.

02:35:04.000 It's still considered a sale.

02:35:05.000 Wow.

02:35:06.000 Somebody tell it to Joey Diaz. 1.00

02:35:09.000 Hands out fucking pot candies everywhere he goes. 0.99

02:35:13.000 So this was like one of the first really big ones that you were involved with. 0.99

02:35:18.000 Well, it was an exciting one, to say the least.

02:35:20.000 I left there and went out into South Carolina and bought a condo on the ocean.

02:35:23.000 So you had kind of like...

02:35:25.000 But what happened was I went back to the location.

02:35:28.000 To get more.

02:35:29.000 Because there was a lot more in there. 0.99

02:35:30.000 But when I got there, there was a fucking limousine out front. 0.99

02:35:33.000 I swear to Christ. 0.99

02:35:34.000 There's a limousine out front with two guys, one stand on each side, with their full length trench coats on, standing there like this, and looking right at us.

02:35:41.000 Like, what are you going to do? 0.98

02:35:42.000 And I went, let's get the fuck out of here. 0.98

02:35:44.000 And I'm not, this is no, this is no yoke. 0.98

02:35:47.000 I was like, okay, I'm the police and I'm scared to death right now.

02:35:50.000 Gotta go.

02:35:51.000 Jesus Christ.

02:35:53.000 And then I end up in the joint with Noriega.

02:35:56.000 You were in the same place as Noriega?

02:35:58.000 Did you see him?

02:35:58.000 No.

02:36:00.000 They gave him his own house.

02:36:01.000 Is he still alive?

02:36:02.000 I think so.

02:36:03.000 They gave him his own house?

02:36:05.000 Yeah, they gave him a little warehouse.

02:36:07.000 They gave him a little something going on with him.

02:36:10.000 Who, me?

02:36:10.000 No, him.

02:36:11.000 Does the government have a little something going on with him?

02:36:13.000 Oh, I can't answer for the government. 1.00

02:36:15.000 They hook him up, give him some pussy, keep your mouth shut. 1.00

02:36:17.000 I hope so. 1.00

02:36:17.000 No stories. 1.00

02:36:18.000 I hope so.

02:36:19.000 He hasn't said anything, has he?

02:36:20.000 Well, you always hope that.

02:36:21.000 Or you always hear that, rather. 1.00

02:36:24.000 In the witness protection program, you get pussy. 1.00

02:36:28.000 I wasn't in it, but I know from guys that were that got kicked out of it. 1.00

02:36:31.000 And they get pussy while they're in the program? 1.00

02:36:33.000 They bring them to a hotel to meet their family, just for a reunion. 1.00

02:36:39.000 Oh, well that's your family though.

02:36:42.000 Whatever, we're all family.

02:36:44.000 They got him in a warehouse somewhere.

02:36:46.000 I would imagine he's got his own little spot. 1.00

02:36:48.000 Imagine if you go there and it's all fucking plush carpet, fucking beautiful TV. The story that everybody dreams of, wow, you had some bid, you know. 0.99

02:36:57.000 Well, that's what everybody dreams of is like that Goodfellas scenario.

02:36:59.000 Yeah, right.

02:37:00.000 It's not like that.

02:37:00.000 Seeing the movie where they're cooking steaks and slicing the garlic with razor blades.

02:37:03.000 We slice garlic with razor blades.

02:37:05.000 Don't kid yourself.

02:37:05.000 Really?

02:37:05.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:37:06.000 And there is steak.

02:37:07.000 Do you really get steak?

02:37:09.000 Yeah, if you know the right people.

02:37:11.000 Well, what else can you get when you're in there?

02:37:13.000 Can you get girls? 1.00

02:37:15.000 Yeah, you have to pay the guards, you know.

02:37:17.000 Really?

02:37:17.000 Yeah, but it's rare.

02:37:18.000 But it happens.

02:37:19.000 Usually it's the guards you're banging.

02:37:20.000 Female guards. 1.00

02:37:21.000 They're out of here, right?

02:37:22.000 That's a shame.

02:37:24.000 That was that upstate New York.

02:37:24.000 Not state, but in the feds they're a little more classy.

02:37:26.000 You gotta send money to their private account.

02:37:28.000 Oh, really?

02:37:30.000 But you can, it all can be happening.

02:37:32.000 Well, anything can happen if you have the right number, right?

02:37:34.000 Really? 1.00

02:37:35.000 How much you got to pay a guard to get some pussy? 1.00

02:37:38.000 I think the going rate was $500, but I'm not sure. 1.00

02:37:40.000 $500?

02:37:40.000 So you pay them $500 and you can get laid?

02:37:42.000 Yeah, you don't hand it to them.

02:37:43.000 You have it sent.

02:37:44.000 Right.

02:37:44.000 That seems like it would be worth it.

02:37:45.000 I mean, I'm just saying.

02:37:47.000 Of course it was.

02:37:48.000 I would have doubled that after a certain amount of time.

02:37:51.000 It seems like a really good deal, actually.

02:37:52.000 500 bucks seems like a bargain.

02:37:53.000 These girls, you know, they were out in the country. 1.00

02:37:55.000 They weren't like city girls.

02:37:57.000 But female guards would oftentimes mix it up with prisoners? 1.00

02:38:00.000 Listen, if I ever go back and fuck in prison, okay, this is not a good thing for me to say. 0.99

02:38:03.000 Well, you're not going to go back in prison. 0.99

02:38:05.000 I'm just saying it happens.

02:38:05.000 You're not going to go back in prison.

02:38:06.000 No, but you never know!

02:38:08.000 The government can find ways.

02:38:09.000 But why would they find ways?

02:38:10.000 We have ways.

02:38:12.000 Listen, it's not going to happen.

02:38:13.000 I know.

02:38:13.000 Just keep your...

02:38:14.000 Keep your nose clean.

02:38:15.000 Yeah, keep your nose clean.

02:38:16.000 You'll be fine.

02:38:17.000 But that was what happened in upstate New York, right?

02:38:19.000 Those guys that got out, and a girl was supposed to wait for them. 0.99

02:38:22.000 From what I understand, she was in a relationship with one of them, and it happens.

02:38:24.000 It happens quite often.

02:38:26.000 It's a difficult position to be in.

02:38:27.000 You're a woman getting attention by men who, most of them, are in pretty good shape.

02:38:30.000 They work out all day long.

02:38:31.000 They got nothing but to do with sweet talk you. 1.00

02:38:33.000 And, you know, you're having a fight with your husband that day.

02:38:34.000 And now, you know, you're vulnerable like anything else.

02:38:37.000 Mm-hmm.

02:38:38.000 I think Tupac's got a song about that, doesn't he?

02:38:41.000 Vulnerable?

02:38:41.000 When I get free.

02:38:43.000 Yeah, let's just hand you a little piece of paper there.

02:38:47.000 What's going on?

02:38:48.000 Your son's giving you notes.

02:38:50.000 What's he saying?

02:38:51.000 I don't know if I should talk about that.

02:38:53.000 What?

02:38:53.000 That I made $38,000 with phone sex in prison.

02:38:56.000 Did you really?

02:38:57.000 Why would you not talk about that?

02:38:59.000 Is it illegal?

02:39:00.000 No, it's just I'm over it. 0.99

02:39:02.000 Wait a minute, did you make phone sex for, like, calling out, like gay guys would call you out? 0.99

02:39:06.000 Is that what you mean? 1.00

02:39:06.000 No, no, no, no. 1.00

02:39:07.000 They don't call you.

02:39:08.000 You call out, all right?

02:39:09.000 I didn't have a hotline in prison.

02:39:11.000 No, I had a following of people that, you know.

02:39:14.000 So you had a business.

02:39:16.000 I had a woman that sent me books on dominatrix stuff. 0.98

02:39:19.000 You know, she wanted me to dominate her. 1.00

02:39:21.000 Master Slave books, Story of O. Right. 0.64

02:39:24.000 I don't know if you guys might be too old for that, but not old enough.

02:39:27.000 Story of O was, like, an incredible book about a woman that liked to be... 0.98

02:39:29.000 Sort of manipulated and whatnot in some kind of ways.

02:39:32.000 So women would contact you in prison? 1.00

02:39:34.000 So this woman sent me a bunch of books related to that.

02:39:36.000 And then I would have phone checks with her on the phone, of course, you know.

02:39:39.000 And she would give you money?

02:39:41.000 Yeah, I mean...

02:39:42.000 Wow. 1.00

02:39:43.000 So a girl would pay you for phone sex? 1.00

02:39:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:39:46.000 That's pretty goddamn... 0.99

02:39:46.000 You can say that. 0.99

02:39:47.000 That's pretty special.

02:39:48.000 Yeah, they called it cell phones.

02:39:50.000 I was in a cell on a phone.

02:39:53.000 But back then, like, that's pretty rare, though, isn't it?

02:39:58.000 That, like, a woman would pay a guy for that? 0.94

02:40:00.000 Like, they always say that men who are in jail for, like, murder and stuff like that, a lot of women would send them... 0.99

02:40:06.000 Yeah, I had a lot of bands.

02:40:10.000 Mostly women. 1.00

02:40:11.000 People are lonely.

02:40:13.000 People are lonely.

02:40:14.000 Even people in the free world are lonely.

02:40:17.000 They need attention and affection from anybody.

02:40:19.000 And it wasn't really done in a manipulative way because I needed attention and affection too.

02:40:26.000 And it just so happened that she wanted me to do this.

02:40:30.000 So I got good at it.

02:40:32.000 The guards would fight to get my...

02:40:33.000 Because they won't be listening.

02:40:35.000 Because every conversation in prisons...

02:40:37.000 I'd walk down the compound, they'd be looking at me like, okay, when are you going on tonight?

02:40:41.000 So you were going on like it was a performance.

02:40:44.000 Yeah, like us now.

02:40:46.000 They couldn't wait till I got on the phone.

02:40:47.000 I was sweating on the other end.

02:40:49.000 I don't know.

02:40:49.000 And they were listening?

02:40:50.000 The guards were listening?

02:40:51.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:40:52.000 That's fucking hilarious. 0.98

02:40:53.000 So they got mad at me. 0.99

02:40:54.000 They used to make me send the money home.

02:40:55.000 You know, you got too much money in your account, you got to send it home.

02:40:58.000 The guards would make you send the money home?

02:41:00.000 Yeah, because you can't have too much money in your account while you're incarcerated, because then you could control people in the prison.

02:41:05.000 Ah.

02:41:06.000 Well, how much can you keep in your account?

02:41:08.000 I don't know.

02:41:09.000 I had 16,000 in there. 0.99

02:41:11.000 They said, whoa, whoa, you got to fucking send some home. 0.99

02:41:13.000 And it's all from this one lady? 0.99

02:41:16.000 Yeah. 0.94

02:41:17.000 Did you have other people that you were doing this phone sex thing with? 0.76

02:41:19.000 No, she was my main... 0.85

02:41:20.000 Well...

02:41:21.000 A couple?

02:41:21.000 She was the main...

02:41:23.000 She was the payee. 0.87

02:41:24.000 How much did you make her pay? 1.00

02:41:25.000 I didn't make her.

02:41:26.000 There was no salary.

02:41:27.000 You know, it wasn't a...

02:41:27.000 She just was sending you donations?

02:41:29.000 She had an escort business. 0.88

02:41:32.000 She had an escort business? 0.78

02:41:33.000 Yeah, I didn't want to talk about this.

02:41:35.000 Why would she not want to talk about this?

02:41:36.000 She had an escort business in Orlando.

02:41:38.000 She ends up getting arrested for it.

02:41:39.000 While I'm on the phone with her having sex, she gets arrested. 1.00

02:41:42.000 Like they broke into her house? 0.89

02:41:43.000 Yeah.

02:41:44.000 Oh, why?

02:41:45.000 Why?

02:41:46.000 Why?

02:41:47.000 Officers?

02:41:48.000 Why?

02:41:48.000 So what?

02:41:49.000 Is there other shit to arrest people for? 0.98

02:41:51.000 Well, the fact is that she ends up going to trial. 0.99

02:41:54.000 She ends up going to trial and winning.

02:41:55.000 Oh, that's nice.

02:41:56.000 So it's a great story for her, you know?

02:41:58.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:41:59.000 But my fucking donation stopped because she was going through hell, you know? 1.00

02:42:03.000 Wow. 1.00

02:42:04.000 That's crazy, though.

02:42:05.000 It was interesting.

02:42:06.000 I would say so.

02:42:07.000 Yeah.

02:42:08.000 I would say at least interesting.

02:42:09.000 You know, you have a life.

02:42:11.000 We all live a life.

02:42:11.000 We all do things.

02:42:12.000 And as it turns out, you know, you can write books and movies about everybody's life.

02:42:17.000 Everybody has...

02:42:18.000 Listen to me. 1.00

02:42:20.000 Right now, your life is way more fucked up than most people's lives. 1.00

02:42:25.000 Fucked up? 1.00

02:42:26.000 I thought it was interesting. 0.99

02:42:27.000 It's very interesting, but a lot of fucked up things are interesting. 0.86

02:42:29.000 Yeah.

02:42:30.000 But your story, I mean, like you're saying, oh, everybody's got an interesting life.

02:42:33.000 You write a book about everybody.

02:42:34.000 No, no.

02:42:35.000 Listen, you wrote a book about, you know, Jamie's life. 0.99

02:42:38.000 It'd be boring as fuck compared to yours. 0.99

02:42:40.000 Oh, come on. 0.99

02:42:40.000 Look, he's got a beautiful shirt on. 0.99

02:42:41.000 Well, he's a great guy.

02:42:41.000 Don't get me wrong.

02:42:42.000 I'm just saying, no coke.

02:42:45.000 No phone sex business.

02:42:47.000 Forget it.

02:42:47.000 No murders.

02:42:48.000 He's never seen a dead body, I don't think.

02:42:50.000 No.

02:42:51.000 See?

02:42:52.000 Everybody's got...

02:42:52.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:42:53.000 For real?

02:42:54.000 Yeah.

02:42:54.000 See?

02:42:54.000 Oh, shit.

02:42:55.000 You've seen some shit. 1.00

02:42:56.000 You just don't think you've seen some shit. 1.00

02:42:58.000 You know what it is? 1.00

02:42:58.000 You take things for granted. 1.00

02:43:00.000 Sure.

02:43:00.000 When you lived the life I lived.

02:43:01.000 And even though, like, I'm lucky to be alive, you know, in many ways.

02:43:05.000 You just...

02:43:06.000 You know, we haven't even discussed police work here.

02:43:09.000 Barely.

02:43:10.000 Well, the reason is because, to me, it was a normal day.

02:43:13.000 You know, I handled 28-day jobs average a day.

02:43:17.000 And I backed up on another 28. So the reality is, you know, fucked up things I was involved in. 0.86

02:43:23.000 I mean, I don't tell you the story. 0.69

02:43:24.000 I've got to tell you the story.

02:43:25.000 I hope you guys enjoy this one.

02:43:26.000 This is entertaining.

02:43:27.000 I laugh about it myself.

02:43:28.000 And you know what?

02:43:29.000 When I laugh, don't take it the wrong way because it's just crazy.

02:43:31.000 You know, I don't mean to demean anything or anyone.

02:43:34.000 So I'm getting ready to go to the Bahamas.

02:43:38.000 And so what I do is I change my shift from a 4 to 12 to a day shift so that after the day shift, I can go on my merry vacation instead of ending at 4 to 12 at night.

02:43:52.000 So I get assigned a prisoner in King County Hospital. 0.96

02:44:00.000 And there's so many fucking stories in my head, it just spins. 0.97

02:44:03.000 So now you realize I'm going on vacation at the end of this shift. 0.99

02:44:06.000 I'm going to the Bahamas or the Cayman Islands, I don't know, someplace.

02:44:09.000 I think the Bahamas.

02:44:13.000 I don't know.

02:44:13.000 I have three days growth on my face.

02:44:15.000 This is how a cop thinks.

02:44:16.000 I have three days growth on my face because I'm going away.

02:44:19.000 You can't have growth on your face.

02:44:20.000 As a cop, you're supposed to be clean-shaven.

02:44:21.000 You can have a mustache, but you've got to be clean-shaven otherwise.

02:44:23.000 So when you turn out, you've got to look tight.

02:44:26.000 So now I'm in this hospital, three days growth on my face, and I'm drunk because I just did an all-nighter.

02:44:31.000 Because I did a 4 to 12. Instead of going home, I stayed at the precinct, tapped down half a dozen or a dozen, whatever, and now I'm back at the hospital guarding this prisoner.

02:44:40.000 I walk in the hospital and I take the handcuffs. 0.99

02:44:44.000 I said to the kid, where's the fucking handcuffs? 0.99

02:44:46.000 He goes, he's a rookie. 0.99

02:44:48.000 He goes, what do you mean? 1.00

02:44:48.000 I go, he's a fucking prisoner. 1.00

02:44:50.000 He's got to be handcuffed. 1.00

02:44:52.000 Well, he wasn't handcuffed when I got here.

02:44:55.000 So I take the handcuffs.

02:44:56.000 I said, have a nice day.

02:44:57.000 I put the cuffs on the guy and cuff him to his bed.

02:45:00.000 Officer, what are you doing? 1.00

02:45:01.000 I said, for Christ's sake, you're a fucking prisoner. 1.00

02:45:03.000 I got to sleep. 1.00

02:45:05.000 I got things to do here.

02:45:06.000 I got to sleep, catch up because I'm going to the Bahamas tonight, tomorrow.

02:45:09.000 Long story short.

02:45:11.000 I'm trying to shorten it.

02:45:12.000 He goes, um, look, I gotta take a piss.

02:45:15.000 I gotta go to the bathroom.

02:45:17.000 He's waking me up now.

02:45:18.000 I'm sleeping already.

02:45:18.000 He wakes me up.

02:45:19.000 So I uncuff him.

02:45:21.000 He goes to the bathroom.

02:45:22.000 I fall back to sleep.

02:45:24.000 He's in the bathroom.

02:45:25.000 Comes back.

02:45:25.000 Wakes me up.

02:45:27.000 Officer, I'm back from the bathroom.

02:45:28.000 I said, okay, I go to the bathroom. 0.94

02:45:29.000 He goes, I just woke you up. 1.00

02:45:30.000 What are you putting the fucking handcuffs on me for? 0.99

02:45:33.000 So I go, listen, anyway, he goes, now he wants to take a shower. 1.00

02:45:38.000 So I go, all right, go take your fucking shower. 1.00

02:45:40.000 I'm sleeping. 1.00

02:45:41.000 I said, wake me up when you come back.

02:45:45.000 All of a sudden about, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 minutes later, officer, yeah, it's a nurse.

02:45:51.000 Your prison is gone.

02:45:54.000 I go, oh, no.

02:45:56.000 Now, I didn't shave for three days.

02:45:57.000 I'm drunk, hungover, and I'm going to the Bahamas tomorrow.

02:46:03.000 If you're making an arrest right now, you've got a problem.

02:46:05.000 Because you've got to process the arrest all the way through.

02:46:08.000 I've got 17 hours overtime stuck in front of me.

02:46:10.000 I'm not making this Bahamas trip. 1.00

02:46:14.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

02:46:15.000 So I tried to put a description over the air of an escaped prisoner. 0.99

02:46:20.000 Possibly escaped prisoner because I don't want to admit that the prisoners escaped yet because I don't know if he is, but he's just not here.

02:46:25.000 I don't see him.

02:46:26.000 He's gone.

02:46:27.000 So if I put over the air and escape prisoner, I'm already, I just cost myself 10 days vacation.

02:46:32.000 Okay, that's mandatory minimum by law in the police department.

02:46:35.000 If you lose a prisoner, you lose 10 days vacation.

02:46:38.000 Whoa.

02:46:39.000 So now I'm not shaven. 0.99

02:46:43.000 I'm running around fucking King County Hospital. 0.99

02:46:45.000 I left my gun. 0.99

02:46:46.000 The only thing I have on is my gun.

02:46:48.000 You know, cops have a jacket with their badge on it.

02:46:49.000 I took the jacket off.

02:46:51.000 So all I have is a radio and a gun. 1.00

02:46:53.000 I'm running around looking for a fucking prisoner. 1.00

02:46:55.000 Cops pull up. 1.00

02:46:56.000 They see a guy with a radio and a gun.

02:46:57.000 They don't see a cop in uniform. 1.00

02:46:58.000 They don't know who the fuck I am. 0.99

02:47:00.000 I'm putting over the impossible escape prison. 0.99

02:47:03.000 Oh, no.

02:47:03.000 Yeah, this communication...

02:47:05.000 I don't get shot.

02:47:06.000 But the communications officer on the phone goes, says, can you call me?

02:47:10.000 So I call her off, what they call, we call it Central.

02:47:14.000 So I call Central.

02:47:15.000 Central, what's your number?

02:47:16.000 So I call her.

02:47:17.000 She goes to me, officer, what is a possible escaped prisoner?

02:47:20.000 It's either he's escaped or he's not.

02:47:24.000 I go, Central. 1.00

02:47:25.000 It's not something I want to put over the air that the fucking guy's gone. 0.99

02:47:28.000 I said, he may be gone. 0.99

02:47:29.000 He may be down the block.

02:47:30.000 He may be sleeping.

02:47:31.000 I can't find him.

02:47:32.000 She goes, okay.

02:47:34.000 She says, what's he wearing?

02:47:35.000 He says, hospital garb.

02:47:37.000 Green hospital garb.

02:47:39.000 Okay.

02:47:41.000 She puts over the air.

02:47:43.000 A possible escaped prisoner from Kings County Hospital wearing green hospital garb.

02:47:48.000 Fifteen minutes later...

02:47:50.000 7-5 hospital post on the air.

02:47:54.000 6-7 sergeant.

02:47:55.000 Yeah, what's up, Sarge?

02:47:56.000 We have a guy here.

02:47:58.000 Could you come meet us at the front lobby? 0.99

02:48:00.000 Now, Kings County Hospital, people don't know, is the size of a fucking whole neighborhood. 0.99

02:48:04.000 It's huge. 0.98

02:48:05.000 It's probably a mile this way, a mile that way, with 50 buildings in it.

02:48:08.000 And it's like a guarded fence, but, you know, there's no guards and there's no real fence.

02:48:12.000 It's just brick walls all over the place.

02:48:15.000 So...

02:48:17.000 All of a sudden he comes walking in with the guy.

02:48:19.000 The sergeant and his driver come walking in with the guy. 1.00

02:48:22.000 And all I can do is want to kill this fucking guy because I'm done. 1.00

02:48:25.000 Now the duty captain has to come down. 1.00

02:48:27.000 The duty captain's going to see that I haven't shaved.

02:48:29.000 And so now I'm upstairs trying to shave and I'm bleeding now because they give you these safety razors.

02:48:34.000 They don't cut anything but you.

02:48:35.000 So I'm shaving my face with this safety razor.

02:48:37.000 I got blood all over me.

02:48:38.000 I'm trying to wipe it up because as soon as he escaped, that's the first thing I did after I called for the back.

02:48:42.000 I started shaving his beard on my face off because I know I'm done.

02:48:45.000 I'm getting interviewed by a duty captain. 0.99

02:48:46.000 He's going to smell the fucking booze on my breath and my face is not quaffed. 0.99

02:48:50.000 So I'm done. 0.99

02:48:52.000 Not because this is going to bring attention to my drunkenness.

02:48:56.000 So I'm shaving and bleeding. 0.99

02:48:58.000 In comes a sergeant with this fucking inmate, convict, whatever he is, and perp. 1.00

02:49:03.000 And I look at him. 1.00

02:49:06.000 He looks at me. 1.00

02:49:07.000 I go, what the fuck did you do? 0.99

02:49:09.000 He goes, there was voices telling me I had to go. 1.00

02:49:11.000 They were telling me I had to run.

02:49:12.000 I go, I pick him up.

02:49:15.000 You know, you get superhuman things.

02:49:17.000 I pick him up with one hand like this.

02:49:18.000 I got him against the glass in Kings County Hospital. 0.96

02:49:21.000 And I go to him, I want to fucking knock him out, but the sergeant's right there, right? 0.98

02:49:25.000 The sergeant goes, take it easy, take it easy, take it easy. 0.99

02:49:27.000 I go, he just cost me fucking ten days. 0.95

02:49:30.000 I can't go on my vacation now. 0.98

02:49:32.000 So I let him down, and I go, drag him back to his appointed bed. 1.00

02:49:40.000 Now I want to fucking, I want to put the cuffs around his neck, right? 1.00

02:49:44.000 I know I shouldn't have fucking... 1.00

02:49:45.000 I don't know. 0.98

02:49:46.000 The voices are telling me.

02:49:46.000 I look up on his bed.

02:49:47.000 It says, HIV. Now, back then, HIV was like, you know...

02:49:55.000 Yeah.

02:49:55.000 You're done.

02:49:56.000 I'm done.

02:49:57.000 Right.

02:49:57.000 I think I got AIDS now.

02:49:58.000 From touching him. 0.82

02:49:59.000 From touching him. 1.00

02:50:00.000 I think I got fucking AIDS. Right. 1.00

02:50:01.000 So, here I am.

02:50:02.000 I just touched this AIDS patient.

02:50:03.000 I'm dying.

02:50:04.000 He's dying.

02:50:05.000 And I'm going on vacation.

02:50:06.000 And I'm not...

02:50:07.000 What am I going to do now?

02:50:08.000 How do you respond to this?

02:50:09.000 So, I don't know what to do.

02:50:12.000 So I'm waiting for the duty captain to come by.

02:50:13.000 I'm bleeding.

02:50:14.000 I'm bleeding still.

02:50:14.000 I got holes in my face, right?

02:50:16.000 Now, I can't even touch myself.

02:50:17.000 I just touched him with my hands.

02:50:19.000 Now I got AIDS on my hands. 0.77

02:50:20.000 I'm bleeding. 0.68

02:50:21.000 I'm done. 0.92

02:50:22.000 I might as well just sign my death warrant right now.

02:50:25.000 Not to mention, you know, I'm not making this vacation.

02:50:29.000 So anyway, they come to relieve me, and how the story turns out is I end up on vacation in a timely manner.

02:50:38.000 I'm supposed to process this arrest.

02:50:40.000 The arrest took me about 15 minutes to process, so I walk back into the precinct, and the lieutenant on the desk goes, Daud, you've got to go back down to central booking and process the arrest of that inmate that escaped.

02:50:52.000 I go, I do?

02:50:53.000 He goes, yeah, I go, I hand him a piece of paper.

02:50:56.000 Here's the arrest report to 61, the aided card, and my overtime slip.

02:51:00.000 He goes, you done?

02:51:02.000 This is the guy who's trying to bang my girlfriend.

02:51:04.000 He goes, you done?

02:51:05.000 The guy whose spot I parked in with the red Corvette.

02:51:08.000 He goes, you done?

02:51:08.000 I go, there's my arrest number.

02:51:10.000 We hated each other. 0.97

02:51:11.000 I go, there's my arrest number, there's the fucking complaint number, and there's the aided card, and there's my overtime slip. 0.98

02:51:16.000 He knew I was going on vacation. 1.00

02:51:18.000 He goes, you fucking fuming. 0.99

02:51:20.000 So, P.S., I lost the perp, I got him back, and I still made the vacation. 0.99

02:51:25.000 Wow.

02:51:26.000 And I end up not losing the 10 days.

02:51:29.000 They forgot to interview me.

02:51:31.000 They forgot to interview you?

02:51:33.000 Yeah, I ended up getting interviewed about a year later on that, and they took something from me.

02:51:38.000 But it was like, it was happenchance then.

02:51:40.000 They took something from you?

02:51:42.000 We have this old thing sitting around on our desk.

02:51:45.000 I go, whatever.

02:51:46.000 It's over with now.

02:51:47.000 So the sting wasn't there, and I was not going to lose my job.

02:51:51.000 I'm drunk, on duty, losing a prisoner.

02:51:53.000 Come on.

02:51:53.000 How could you not lose your job?

02:51:55.000 You got lucky.

02:51:57.000 Maybe.

02:51:57.000 Did I? Definitely.

02:51:58.000 I would have lost my job and I was safe, right?

02:52:00.000 I don't know.

02:52:01.000 I don't know.

02:52:02.000 I mean, I hate to say everything happens for a reason. 0.98

02:52:06.000 I fucking hate that saying. 0.97

02:52:08.000 Sometimes it applies. 0.99

02:52:10.000 It's scary.

02:52:11.000 Jesus Christ.

02:52:12.000 But you got to feel lucky that you went through all this and you're still alive and you're still healthy.

02:52:19.000 I am very lucky and blessed.

02:52:21.000 Yeah.

02:52:22.000 Yeah.

02:52:22.000 I am.

02:52:23.000 I mean, you've lived a...

02:52:25.000 I mean, to say you've lived a colorful life... 0.99

02:52:27.000 I'm fucking tired. 0.99

02:52:28.000 You'd have to be. 1.00

02:52:29.000 I'm fucking tired. 0.99

02:52:29.000 Jesus Christ, you've been running up hills... 0.99

02:52:31.000 Look at me, I'm sweating like a fuck just telling you these stories. 1.00

02:52:32.000 Carrying weights your whole life. 1.00

02:52:34.000 On coke.

02:52:35.000 On these sticks, these spindles of a leg. 1.00

02:52:37.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 1.00

02:52:39.000 It's a crazy story. 1.00

02:52:40.000 And I'm sure you have a million crazy stories like that.

02:52:44.000 That's...

02:52:45.000 That's an easy one.

02:52:46.000 That was an easy one to tell.

02:52:47.000 Yeah, that's a four-minute one.

02:52:48.000 I just couldn't imagine.

02:52:50.000 I really do hope that this does become a book.

02:52:54.000 Well, I'd like to share the stories because they're interesting and funny.

02:52:57.000 And you know what?

02:52:58.000 A lot of people don't want to give recognition that this is what life is.

02:53:03.000 People live a life, and you have to share your stories with people.

02:53:06.000 You really do.

02:53:07.000 I like to talk.

02:53:09.000 Well, in the time, it's like you were alive during the perfect time where all this happened.

02:53:15.000 The crack era, right?

02:53:17.000 The crack era.

02:53:17.000 Well, not just that.

02:53:18.000 Like, you started out before the crack era.

02:53:20.000 The crack era happened while you were in...

02:53:23.000 It destroyed a large community of people, and...

02:53:27.000 People that weren't even part of the community got destroyed because of it.

02:53:29.000 And think about how much of it would be different today because of cell phones, because of the internet.

02:53:38.000 You know, we could bring this conversation in that direction.

02:53:40.000 It wouldn't be the way it was, that's for sure.

02:53:42.000 No, there's no way.

02:53:42.000 And that's why I talk about this often.

02:53:44.000 I think that you have to get with it.

02:53:47.000 You have to move along.

02:53:49.000 The police society has to move along.

02:53:53.000 I tell a story in the movie.

02:53:55.000 A cop gets shot.

02:53:56.000 I end up taking him to the hospital.

02:53:59.000 And I didn't deserve to feel his pain.

02:54:01.000 And that's a really hard thing for a guy who was a cop.

02:54:05.000 I didn't deserve to feel what happened to him and his family.

02:54:10.000 Really, when you're a cop, you don't want to ever feel that way.

02:54:13.000 Did you feel like you were a cop?

02:54:16.000 When you were in the middle of it all?

02:54:18.000 You know what, Joe?

02:54:20.000 I always felt like a cop.

02:54:21.000 I just always thought I could come back and be a cop.

02:54:24.000 See, you always thought, like, eventually I'm going to let this stuff go.

02:54:27.000 Right, I'm going to grow up.

02:54:28.000 Wow.

02:54:29.000 Just never got a chance.

02:54:32.000 I'm going to grow up, you know?

02:54:33.000 You piled up so much, you know? 1.00

02:54:36.000 You know, it's a fucking crazy life, man. 1.00

02:54:40.000 It's really crazy. 0.99

02:54:41.000 It's not a good life, you know, and the fact that we're saying that, you know, I could sit on a pile of gold or whatever, and I love to hear that, you know, it's just the fact that you turn something bad into something good is a good thing, but it was fucking hell, and still, you know, I mean, sometimes I can't even go up to a cop today and say, 0.69

02:54:58.000 hey, you're doing, I'm mic'd out.

02:54:59.000 You could do that to any cop.

02:55:00.000 And they say, hey, Joe, nice to meet you.

02:55:02.000 I love you.

02:55:03.000 I do that.

02:55:03.000 I'm like, you know, do they really want to say hello to me?

02:55:06.000 Or do they want to just clean their fucking hand? 1.00

02:55:08.000 I had a guy come up to me at one of those previews I did or screenings and said, you're a fucking lowlife piece of shit. 1.00

02:55:15.000 Go fuck yourself. 1.00

02:55:16.000 It was a cop? 1.00

02:55:17.000 Yeah.

02:55:18.000 Yeah.

02:55:18.000 I probably could have squashed him like a bug, but that's not the point.

02:55:21.000 You know, it's true. 0.99

02:55:23.000 I looked at him and I fucking squashed you. 0.99

02:55:25.000 You couldn't even be half the cop I was. 0.99

02:55:26.000 When I did my job well, you couldn't be half what I was.

02:55:29.000 But, you know, the problem was I dabbled on both sides at the same time.

02:55:32.000 That's why in the movie they said, what were you, a cop or a gangster?

02:55:35.000 Both.

02:55:36.000 You know?

02:55:37.000 Yeah.

02:55:37.000 There's that scene where the one cop sees you coming out, and he says he looks at you, and he goes, I don't see cop, I see perp.

02:55:45.000 Right, right. 1.00

02:55:45.000 Well, he's a douchebag. 1.00

02:55:46.000 Is he a douchebag? 1.00

02:55:47.000 Yeah, he's a douchebag. 1.00

02:55:47.000 They don't like him. 1.00

02:55:48.000 Why is that?

02:55:48.000 No one likes him.

02:55:49.000 Internal Affairs doesn't like him.

02:55:50.000 Really?

02:55:51.000 Yeah, I'm working with Internal Affairs right now, by the way.

02:55:52.000 You're working with them?

02:55:53.000 Yeah, I didn't tell you that.

02:55:54.000 How so?

02:55:54.000 No.

02:55:55.000 No, no, I'm training them.

02:55:57.000 I'm training.

02:55:57.000 We're in the midst of finishing a training video for bosses, cops, and recruits.

02:56:04.000 Three different videos.

02:56:05.000 Wow.

02:56:06.000 Well, that makes sense.

02:56:07.000 That seems like something that you would really be able to help with.

02:56:10.000 Yeah, I think I could.

02:56:11.000 And you know what?

02:56:12.000 I put a little...

02:56:13.000 A lot of these films are so dry and boring. 0.99

02:56:15.000 And I give a little character to the fucking training session, you know? 0.99

02:56:18.000 A little flavor. 0.99

02:56:19.000 Listen, I met two beautiful women. 1.00

02:56:20.000 And I'm being honest, sincere.

02:56:22.000 I spoke on one of...

02:56:23.000 One was the chief of internal affairs...

02:56:26.000 And one was a lieutenant in internal affairs, both smoking hot.

02:56:29.000 Yeah.

02:56:29.000 And for real.

02:56:30.000 Right.

02:56:31.000 And they would have had me in a minute.

02:56:32.000 If they just sent them in, I would have been caught in 1987. But anyway, these two girls, women, and they fucking just, they knew. 0.99

02:56:41.000 They knew that their internal affairs division needed something that was poignant or riveting. 0.98

02:56:48.000 Mm-hmm.

02:56:49.000 And they said, we need you.

02:56:50.000 Can you help us?

02:56:51.000 They need some character.

02:56:52.000 Yeah, people don't pay attention to information unless it's distributed in an entertaining way.

02:56:57.000 There's a big difference between just flat, boring, dry information and information that's got some flavor to it.

02:57:03.000 So I did something with them.

02:57:05.000 In fact, I spoke to them last week briefly.

02:57:08.000 I told them some of the things I was doing.

02:57:10.000 They were sort of acting jealous. 1.00

02:57:11.000 I said, jealous, you got a fucking pension. 1.00

02:57:12.000 Don't be jealous. 0.99

02:57:13.000 Okay, I'm selling my soul right now just to make ends meet, you know, and they got a pension and retirement system, they're going to be fine, you know, but interesting conversation with them, and so they're looking to do something with that and have me back and speak before academy class or,

02:57:29.000 you know, I don't know about the precincts, the guys might not open their arms to me the way the rookies are forced to, you know.

02:57:34.000 And then I'm doing some colleges right now.

02:57:37.000 I'm speaking at colleges.

02:57:37.000 That's great too.

02:57:38.000 That sounds great.

02:57:39.000 Humanities classes, some ethical classes for the law students and criminal justice departments.

02:57:46.000 One of the police departments has actually reached out to me in the South.

02:57:52.000 I don't want to put their name out there just in case they decide not to.

02:57:54.000 But they have like 750 officers.

02:57:56.000 They want me to come and actually speak.

02:57:57.000 It's a great idea.

02:57:58.000 It makes a lot of sense.

02:57:59.000 It's a very smart idea.

02:58:02.000 What I did was horrific.

02:58:04.000 I used a position to trust.

02:58:06.000 I did my time.

02:58:07.000 Now I hope I can help people avoid guys that can do what I did.

02:58:10.000 Or pick up on it.

02:58:12.000 Maybe I had to stop him before.

02:58:14.000 Like this maybe guy has the characteristics of a guy that could go that way.

02:58:18.000 We're good to go.

02:58:41.000 And it was a difficult time for the police department, and what you got from it was a lot of internal strife.

02:58:48.000 We hated the job, but we loved being cops.

02:58:51.000 So it was very difficult.

02:58:52.000 And the guys that loved being cops, that were true to the job, they became good cops and got their pensions.

02:58:57.000 The guys like myself, who turned into me, They began to rebel.

02:59:01.000 They're telling you not to make arrests.

02:59:03.000 They're telling you not to do this.

02:59:04.000 And your boss failed three tests, and you didn't pass him either.

02:59:09.000 So you both should be in the same ground.

02:59:10.000 Now he's your boss or she's your boss.

02:59:12.000 So it was a very, very political upheaval within the police department itself when this rife time in the crack era hit, all at the same time.

02:59:22.000 Yeah.

02:59:22.000 It's like a perfect storm.

02:59:23.000 It was a perfect storm.

02:59:24.000 The whole thing is a perfect storm.

02:59:25.000 It was a perfect storm. 0.99

02:59:25.000 And they didn't want another fucking scandal like they had in the 7-7 precinct. 0.99

02:59:28.000 Right. 0.99

02:59:29.000 Wow.

02:59:29.000 Which people aren't aware of unless they know the police department history.

02:59:32.000 Mike, we just did three hours. 1.00

02:59:34.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

02:59:35.000 That was it. 1.00

02:59:36.000 Three hours just fucking flew by. 0.95

02:59:37.000 Make sure we talk about themikedown.com. 0.98

02:59:40.000 Yes, themikedow.com, and that's where people should buy the documentary, The 7-5, and do buy the documentary because it is fucking five stars. 0.88

02:59:48.000 Thank you. 0.66

02:59:48.000 It's outstanding. 0.66

02:59:49.000 It was well done.

02:59:50.000 It's very, very well done, and it's compelling, and so are you, man.

02:59:55.000 Thank you very much, brother.

02:59:56.000 I really appreciate it.

02:59:56.000 Thanks, Joe.

02:59:56.000 I'm very happy to be here.

02:59:57.000 Thanks for having me on.

02:59:57.000 We're going to do this again.

02:59:58.000 Great.

02:59:59.000 Great love to.

02:59:59.000 Thanks.

03:00:00.000 All right, fuckers. 0.99

03:00:01.000 See you soon. 1.00

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 13, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #707 - Michael Dowd

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