The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #812 - Russell Brand & Jim Breuer

00:00:01.000 I know you guys are banging to your coffee.

00:00:06.000 And we're live.

00:00:07.000 You're jumping into swamps and English royalties homes. 1.00

00:00:10.000 You've got to be very careful.

00:00:12.000 This is how I like to be introduced, Joe.

00:00:14.000 You've got to be very careful when you get into those sort of predicaments.

00:00:17.000 Who knows what's in there?

00:00:19.000 There's a beheading around every corner once you mess with the royal family's private swamps.

00:00:24.000 Yeah, especially if you're doing it for some sort of a psychedelic purposes.

00:00:27.000 You're trying to elevate yourself, like freezing yourself in their cold, swampy waters, freeing yourself.

00:00:34.000 If you're embarking on a journey of personal shamanism on royal territory, yeah, your life's in your hands.

00:00:40.000 Your life could shrivel up as quickly as my sex organs did in that particular predicament.

00:00:45.000 It's definitely an added element. 0.74

00:00:47.000 Yeah, it is.

00:00:47.000 You have to consider it.

00:00:48.000 It's not a place to go for pride.

00:00:50.000 But as soon as I, like, yeah, as soon as I was sort of submerged in it, that's what, like, you know, because even though it is just, in this case, just an example of me, a man simply jumping in a cold lake, and I do have a tendency to over-poeticise the mundane experiences of my everyday life, but...

00:01:04.000 Why not?

00:01:04.000 What else are we going to do while we're here?

00:01:06.000 It did make me think we are living on narrow lines, narrow train tracks of existence, never to have heard myself go, an animal noise.

00:01:17.000 I'm capable of that.

00:01:18.000 It's almost like an anti-orgasm, like a negative orgasm.

00:01:22.000 Repeat, if you would, what you said before you got on camera, how it represents the subconscious and that going into the murky depths.

00:01:29.000 I thought you'd like that, mate.

00:01:30.000 Yeah.

00:01:30.000 What it is, is in fairy stories, myths and religion, personally, if you're not into him already, I reckon you'd well love, is a man, an American scholar called Joseph Campbell, who is a cultural mythologist, and he studied various religions and folk tales and found corollaries and comparisons and consistencies and sort of...

00:01:49.000 It's said that where there are consistencies, there's truth.

00:01:52.000 If there's some Icelandic myth and it's telling basically the same story as some African story or some Native American story or some daft Celtic folk tale, why are human beings dislocated all over the world, coming up with the same stories, coming up with the same experiences?

00:02:04.000 Well, often in these stories, the forest is used as the unconscious.

00:02:08.000 Not only...

00:02:09.000 The forest represents the unconscious.

00:02:11.000 Often in mythology, when a character has to go into the woods, that means you've got to go into yourself.

00:02:16.000 You're going to have to go into new territory.

00:02:18.000 And also, under the water.

00:02:21.000 Similarly, also represents unconsciousness.

00:02:23.000 And what's interesting about it all, Joe, is not only ancient mythologies and old stories, but also personal dreams.

00:02:30.000 If you yourself have a dream, like this is where the work of Joseph Campbell, in its sex with a work of Carl Jung, that good.

00:02:37.000 He noticed that people in their personal myths, like Joseph Campbell said, dreams are private myths, myths are public dreams.

00:02:45.000 In people's personal dreams, they come up with images, archetypes and stories that can also be found in fairy tales.

00:02:52.000 You know, just someone asleep goes, oh, I was just walking and I went into the woods and I met this old woman in the woods and she told me that everything was going to be okay and then she put up a hood and when she took her hood down again, it was my mother's face.

00:03:02.000 It's like people are inventing their own mythology.

00:03:06.000 Because, of course, all culture is created by consciousness.

00:03:08.000 So on some level, it's in us.

00:03:10.000 It's in us individually.

00:03:12.000 Yeah, Joseph Campbell's work is amazing.

00:03:14.000 And when you do look at all the different stories and how they coincide and how many similarities they share, it is really interesting to see what are people trying to accomplish with these archetypes?

00:03:24.000 Like what are they trying to sort out?

00:03:26.000 Because it seems like that has to be some things.

00:03:28.000 Lessons passed down to children, lessons passed down to other people so they can learn things without having to experience the woods themselves.

00:03:34.000 But then there's also some sort of archetypes that they're sort of defining the reality around them in a very similar way all over the world.

00:03:41.000 I suppose what I reckon, Joe, is the more diverse our culture...

00:03:45.000 It's weird, isn't it?

00:03:46.000 Because we're experiencing on one level globalisation and homogenisation, where culture through corporatism is coming uniform throughout the world, but also there are many, many, many disparate experiences.

00:03:56.000 But on some level, as human beings, If we're anatomically as similar as we are, perhaps it's safe to assume that we're psychologically comparably similar.

00:04:05.000 Like, you know, even though you and I are sort of different body types or whatever and look sort of at a glance kind of different, we're both ultimately got the same organs, we're running in pretty much the same way.

00:04:14.000 Or perhaps we have the same psychological palette.

00:04:17.000 So throughout the world, people are Everyone's having a very similar experience of being human, the anxiety of not being good enough, the fear of death, constantly looking for something in the outside world that's going to solve the problems, that's going to answer your questions.

00:04:31.000 In a lot of these ancient texts that I've mostly got at through Joseph Campbell or Hinduism for beginners, that's normally my entry point, I, like you, am an autodidact, self-taught person.

00:04:42.000 That's one of the things I like about your podcast.

00:04:45.000 You can hear, this is a person educating themselves and continuing to educate themselves Well, one of the things that I picked up in that is that in them very, very ancient texts, there are people that, the same way as in our time that's defined by science and technology,

00:05:00.000 there were times where people defined themselves through meditation and experiences in consciousness.

00:05:05.000 Those people that wrote, say, the Upanishads, whoever the hell they were, these Rishis, these ancient Indian yogis that went into deep, deep meditative states and came back with mantras and truths.

00:05:17.000 Those people are as diligent and as fastidious as a scientist in a laboratory that comes back and goes, well, look, we've, you know, we've broke down, you know, Watson and Crick breaking down the DNA. They come back and go, this is what it is to be a human.

00:05:28.000 You are going to die.

00:05:29.000 You need to get, you need to come to terms with the relationship between your contrary self and your material self.

00:05:35.000 That's the, for me, that's the stuff like, that's the conversation that I'm into, and that's why whenever I find it, whether it come from Joseph Campbell or Carl Jung or even checking out this podcast, like a lot of the stuff, Hancock, Graham Hancock's into.

00:05:48.000 That always, it presses something deep in me.

00:05:50.000 That's what I'm always looking for, you know, Joe.

00:05:52.000 There are moments where you think, that shudder you get, ooh, there's truth in there, you know.

00:05:57.000 Yeah, well those paths that you're talking about, those paths that are carved in, that we sort of normalize all the experiences that we have so they look totally sane. 0.67

00:06:07.000 If you just stray off those paths and jump into that lake and freeze your dick off and get out and you just, why did I do that? 0.96

00:06:14.000 You broke your little chain, the little chain of programming that's going on in your brain. 0.99

00:06:19.000 You did something completely unusual.

00:06:21.000 And sometimes just little things like that, little deviations off of that path will take you into a completely different place.

00:06:27.000 Are you still doing that kind of thing in your life now?

00:06:32.000 Yeah, sure.

00:06:32.000 All the time.

00:06:34.000 Whether it's the cryo chambers or the isolation tanks or the experiences...

00:06:41.000 Are you into ayahuasca and DMT? I haven't done ayahuasca, but I've done a lot of DMT. The DMT is the more potent, shorter-lasting form, obviously.

00:06:50.000 I've read accounts on it.

00:06:52.000 I've never done it.

00:06:53.000 I'm in recovery.

00:06:55.000 Allegedly things can be arranged if you're in recovery.

00:06:58.000 The problem with recovery is, you know, if you want to maintain complete and total sobriety, the only way to allegedly have that experience, and apparently it is possible, is through Kundalini.

00:07:11.000 According to people I know that have done both, they've done DMT and they've also done Kundalini, it's virtually the same thing.

00:07:17.000 Oh my god, that's pretty amazing.

00:07:18.000 You just have to be completely dedicated to the Kundalini practice and you have to go to a very specific state that's achievable once you have some mastery over the meditation and the meditation.

00:07:31.000 The yoga principles.

00:07:32.000 I've done a fair bit of that Kundalini.

00:07:34.000 I've got to bang into it.

00:07:35.000 In fact, this tattoo on my forefinger here is an illustration by Carl Jung of the Kundalini serpent.

00:07:43.000 The energy that rises up, your animal energy can become the coronated serpent.

00:07:47.000 It bloody hurt getting that tattoo done and I woke up in the middle of the night severely regretting it.

00:07:52.000 Ow! 1.00

00:07:52.000 My finger! 1.00

00:07:53.000 Why?

00:07:53.000 Why did I do that?

00:07:55.000 It was mostly because Mark Mahoney, the L.A. tattooist, I became somewhat besotted with him because he was kind of like some sort of living skeleton Elvis.

00:08:03.000 He was so charming and enchanting that I kept getting myself tattooed just so I could suss him out.

00:08:09.000 He appeared briefly in that film Black Mask, that Johnny Depp film.

00:08:12.000 I don't know if you saw it.

00:08:13.000 I didn't see that.

00:08:14.000 Whitey, whatever his name was. 0.99

00:08:15.000 Whitey Bulger.

00:08:16.000 That movie.

00:08:17.000 Yeah, he's...

00:08:17.000 As a cameo in the beginning of that, he's sort of got a blue rings over his head.

00:08:20.000 He's sort of a fascinating guy and a literal, you know, artist.

00:08:23.000 A proper tattoo artist.

00:08:25.000 People have, you know, he's tattooed like gangster crime overlords, you know, presidents, everybody.

00:08:31.000 He's done sort of like a lot of people, but he's got a very easy way and a sort of gentle kindness.

00:08:35.000 He told me this story once...

00:08:37.000 God, I wonder if you'd mind me repeating this in the media world.

00:08:40.000 When he used to be an intravenous junkie, he was in New York City and he was wandering along on the way to a party and he saw a homeless fella doing paintings and he sort of thought, oh man, I'll get those paintings.

00:08:49.000 And he bought these paintings off this homeless guy and then he went on to this party and then he went and shot up in the bathroom and then he heard a flurry of excitement at this New York party because Andy Warhol, the great Andy Warhol, was arriving...

00:09:00.000 At the party and Warhol came upstairs and he said he could hear like the acolytes around Warhol and he said he's just banged up and he's getting a hit and his eyes are rolling and he's like feeling fantastic and he hears Warhol outside the room and Mark Mahoney had left some of his paintings out there along with the works of that homeless guy and he hears Warhol go oh my god that's amazing like looking at this stuff and he goes wow look at me I'm the coolest guy in the world says Mark Mahoney I'm laying here banging up smack in a bathroom Warhol's out there digging my work and of course when he went out it was the homeless guy stuff Yeah,

00:09:32.000 he's a man with an anecdote or two.

00:09:34.000 I love that guy.

00:09:35.000 Your coffee's good, mate. 1.00

00:09:36.000 I'm buzzing my tits off. 0.99

00:09:37.000 I've only been here five seconds and I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. 0.99

00:09:39.000 It's amazing.

00:09:40.000 It's amazing that it's that powerful for you.

00:09:42.000 This is it, because I'm drug-free for 13 years, Joe.

00:09:45.000 Oh, so as I was saying, kundalini.

00:09:47.000 I've done a lot of that kundalini.

00:09:49.000 Did he ever take you to a crazy place?

00:09:51.000 Yeah.

00:09:51.000 Psychedelic state?

00:09:53.000 When I was using drugs, I did psychedelics, and I've never had that kind of like, oh my god, because I loved drugs.

00:09:59.000 You never had a breakthrough moment on psychedelics?

00:10:03.000 Yeah, I had that realisation that what I considered to be myself was a construction and it wasn't real.

00:10:09.000 That my memories and my perception and my desires are just a conglomeration of biochemical impulses that I'm merely a conduit of pure consciousness.

00:10:18.000 Now that's too heavy to deal with when you're bloody 16. All my mates were just doing it at school and carrying on.

00:10:24.000 Like me, I need to do psychedelics in a hospital with a person monitoring my heart.

00:10:30.000 You're going to be alright.

00:10:31.000 I can't do it under normal conditions.

00:10:32.000 So how old were you when you went clean then?

00:10:35.000 27. So from 27 on, nothing, just coffee?

00:10:39.000 I'm 41, yeah.

00:10:40.000 A lot of coffee.

00:10:41.000 Of course I was a pretty committed sex addict for a decade. 0.76

00:10:45.000 You might want to dip your feet back in the pond. 0.96

00:10:48.000 See, you say this, Joe.

00:10:53.000 I don't know where your addictive tendencies come out.

00:10:58.000 Well, I have them for sure.

00:11:01.000 Where do they come out?

00:11:03.000 Um, games.

00:11:04.000 I get addicted really badly to games.

00:11:07.000 Video games.

00:11:08.000 Yeah.

00:11:08.000 Archery.

00:11:09.000 I'm addicted very badly to shooting bows and arrows.

00:11:11.000 You good at it?

00:11:11.000 I used to be cool.

00:11:12.000 Yeah.

00:11:12.000 You can shoot.

00:11:13.000 Yeah, I'm pretty good at it.

00:11:14.000 Proper Robin Hood style.

00:11:15.000 Yeah.

00:11:16.000 Well, I don't use a recurve bow.

00:11:18.000 I use a compound bow.

00:11:19.000 Like a very complicated, high-powered apparatus.

00:11:23.000 Shoots very accurately out to 70, 80, 90 yards.

00:11:27.000 But I practice it all the time.

00:11:29.000 Yeah.

00:11:29.000 It's fascinating.

00:11:30.000 It's a meditation.

00:11:31.000 Yeah. 0.71

00:11:31.000 Because there's something about when you you require so much concentration when you're pulling a bow back and anchoring and Relaxing and centering the bow and making sure everything's level and relaxed and there's no excess movement whatsoever as you release the arrow It's all this very very difficult little dance of the synapses that you're doing and in that dance There's no room for any extraneous thought you can't think about your bills your bullshit your life death you don't think about anything but No movement. 0.71

00:11:59.000 Release that arrow absolutely properly.

00:12:01.000 Watch it sink into the bullseye.

00:12:02.000 And when you do it, it's incredibly satisfying.

00:12:04.000 It must be, mate.

00:12:05.000 Is there some visualization involved in that?

00:12:08.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:12:10.000 And a lot of people actually get better from not even practicing.

00:12:13.000 They get better from visualizing more than practicing.

00:12:17.000 They just go over the actual physical mechanics of the shot, visualize it, locking in.

00:12:24.000 But it's a big thing with competitive target archers, the visualization aspect.

00:12:28.000 They go to hypnotists and they really work on a very specific pattern that they visualize, like a very specific pattern of drawing the bow back, finding your anchor point, perfect release, arrow flying perfectly.

00:12:42.000 And in doing that, they sort of condition their mind and their body to make that perfect shot over and over and over again. 0.97

00:12:48.000 But it's so difficult to do that even the best people fuck up.

00:12:51.000 The best ones in the world, in the Olympic archery, they'll occasionally get just out of the line and get a 9 or an 8, and they don't know why. 0.99

00:12:58.000 They've been doing it 7 hours a day for fucking 20 years. 0.94

00:13:02.000 It doesn't matter. 0.99

00:13:03.000 It's so difficult that there's no mastery.

00:13:06.000 You never totally master it.

00:13:09.000 You've got to be addicted if you're going to a hit and a tist and trying to hit a bullseye, man.

00:13:14.000 Well, imagine if that was your life.

00:13:15.000 You're deep in it.

00:13:15.000 Imagine if that was how you made a living.

00:13:17.000 How much are you making to be an arrow shooter?

00:13:21.000 Competitive archer.

00:13:22.000 It's a good question.

00:13:23.000 I mean, I know there's the Olympics, right?

00:13:25.000 And so you can get sponsors from bow companies like Hoyt and companies that sell arrows and things along those lines.

00:13:31.000 And it's a practice that a lot of people engage in.

00:13:33.000 So I would imagine there's probably more money in it than you think there is.

00:13:36.000 Okay.

00:13:37.000 But, yeah.

00:13:38.000 I just haven't seen it even at the fairs.

00:13:40.000 Like, $200 for...

00:13:42.000 Well, here's what the tricky thing is.

00:13:43.000 It's not like...

00:13:44.000 Like, if you're a professional boxer, you have a very specific set of skills, right?

00:13:49.000 Right.

00:13:50.000 You know how to box, you know how to move. 0.98

00:13:51.000 Like, Floyd Mayweather is pretty goddamn sure he knows exactly what the fuck he's doing. 0.95

00:13:55.000 But this isn't like boxing. 0.97

00:13:57.000 You could teach anybody to do this.

00:14:00.000 Right.

00:14:00.000 It doesn't take any ridiculously coordinated athletic movements, some unusual genetics, some fast twitch muscle fibers.

00:14:08.000 No, you just pull the bow back and you release the arrow.

00:14:11.000 So to make a living doing that, to decide that I'm going to do something that I could teach anybody to do in a day.

00:14:16.000 I could take any regular person and work on their footwork, their stance rather, and their positioning and teach them how to shoot an hour.

00:14:22.000 Breathing.

00:14:23.000 Yeah, breathing, how to concentrate and relax.

00:14:25.000 You get them shooting fairly proficiently inside of four or five hours.

00:14:28.000 Now imagine taking that to a level where you're going to travel the world and compete and just shoot at bullseyes for your kid's food.

00:14:37.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:14:38.000 Against a bunch of other people that are no different than you.

00:14:41.000 I want to meet that guy.

00:14:41.000 I know a lot of those guys.

00:14:42.000 I know quite a few of those guys now.

00:14:43.000 You introduce me?

00:14:44.000 Yeah, I'll introduce you for sure.

00:14:45.000 I would love to meet a professional guy like that.

00:14:47.000 Yeah, I'll introduce you to the guy who trained me, John Dudley.

00:14:49.000 Next time he's in LA and you're in LA, we'll make it happen.

00:14:51.000 He's a good dude.

00:14:52.000 I want to learn about that madness.

00:14:54.000 What is your motivation, Jimbo, to unravel this man?

00:14:59.000 Don't harm him mentally.

00:15:00.000 Not a person who's devoted their life to hitting the bullseye.

00:15:03.000 You might unpick the stitching that led him to this point of mastery.

00:15:08.000 Don't make him feel insecure about the hypnosis session.

00:15:12.000 Do you do yoga at all, man?

00:15:13.000 Do you do like regular yoga or just Kundalini?

00:15:16.000 How often do you do it?

00:15:17.000 I try and do yoga.

00:15:19.000 My exercise regimen changed not entirely unrelated to listening to your podcast.

00:15:25.000 Now I do kickboxing once a week.

00:15:27.000 I do jujitsu once a week.

00:15:29.000 Honestly, it's influenced me.

00:15:30.000 My mate Nick got me into your podcast.

00:15:33.000 A lot of people that I hang out with, as you obviously know, but even in the UK, in the mixed martial art world, this is a very central cultural artefact and how it intersects with thinking outside the box and a new vision of what it is to be a man and living outside of state ideals and conditioning.

00:15:52.000 That's what I'm fascinated about.

00:15:55.000 It's these new ways of being a man, of having tenderness, awareness, awakeness, but not being afraid or indeed ashamed of the aspects of masculinity that have somehow become cleverly maligned over the last few generations.

00:16:14.000 May I say, a shout-out to Dean Northway and Paul Busby, because they're the people that I do.

00:16:21.000 Shout-out.

00:16:21.000 That's a shout-out to them.

00:16:23.000 I was ridiculed there for Englishness.

00:16:24.000 That was a hate crime.

00:16:25.000 You saw that, Jim.

00:16:26.000 That's going on the hate crime list.

00:16:29.000 I was giving them a shout-out as well.

00:16:31.000 Actually, that's a great honour.

00:16:33.000 There's no doubt that the English accent is the greatest accent.

00:16:36.000 That's why we use it for all It's true.

00:16:38.000 Any time there's a god or any time you're speaking in a foreign language that we've translated to English, they have an English accent.

00:16:45.000 You're right about that.

00:16:45.000 They could be speaking in anything.

00:16:47.000 It's authority.

00:16:48.000 Game of Thrones, Gladiator, everybody speaks with an English accent.

00:16:50.000 After all of your revolutions, after all of your economic success and global dominion, when it comes to an authority figure, you still go, well, it might have come down from on high.

00:16:59.000 You still can't have God go, well, thanks, buddy, it's great.

00:17:02.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:17:03.000 Still have a sort of sense of...

00:17:05.000 Regal-ness.

00:17:06.000 Yeah.

00:17:06.000 Game of Thrones.

00:17:07.000 Reverence for the regal.

00:17:08.000 They all speak some strange language.

00:17:11.000 They're in some place with dragons.

00:17:12.000 It's all artificial, right?

00:17:13.000 But yet they all speak with an English accent.

00:17:15.000 There's no reason why they should not be from Detroit.

00:17:18.000 Yeah.

00:17:18.000 Why don't they speak?

00:17:19.000 Hey, you fucking guys are coming over here trying to fuck our broads. 1.00

00:17:24.000 Look at your fucking boss and his kid. 1.00

00:17:25.000 Comes over here with his fucking dragons. 1.00

00:17:28.000 Get your fucking shine box and your dragons. 1.00

00:17:30.000 They ship all over. 0.99

00:17:31.000 Ask you to leave the court because you've really lowered the tone somewhat.

00:17:35.000 So it's like the opposite of going off the course. 0.92

00:17:38.000 It's going so deep into the course that everyone's wearing powdered wigs and they're all aligning with some ancient scrolls that they've pulled out of a jar in a fucking cave in Qumran somewhere and it has been decreed.

00:17:51.000 And you say everything's got to be proper. 0.90

00:17:53.000 Yeah, it's getting deep.

00:17:54.000 That's what we count on you guys for.

00:17:56.000 You can rely on us from now for time immemorial.

00:18:00.000 Sorry for burping during that statement.

00:18:03.000 I go do jiu-jitsu once a week at a level that, you know, I mean, I don't even know if it would qualify for the term jiu-jitsu at the level that I'm practicing at at the moment.

00:18:12.000 I'm doing kickboxing where I had to go to what is called a leisure center.

00:18:16.000 Do those words exist in your language?

00:18:17.000 Leisure center.

00:18:18.000 Yeah, leisure center.

00:18:18.000 Oh, like a gym, a community center?

00:18:20.000 Yeah, like a gym, but like a community one to do my...

00:18:23.000 Like a YMCA? Yeah, like a YMCA. I was lined up with 10-year-olds to get my white belt just to get on the ladder, do you know what I mean?

00:18:30.000 I've done that quite recently.

00:18:31.000 And as well as that, I do yoga.

00:18:32.000 So I'm using this time where I've stepped out of the madness of Los Angeles, the madness of media, the intensity of it.

00:18:42.000 And during the time, I thought, Another thing that Jung talks about is the shadow self.

00:18:47.000 All that I am not, I also am.

00:18:49.000 If you think of that, and I suppose a simpler way of saying that, is I've lived this life that's been very focused on comedy and the pursuit of individual success.

00:18:56.000 Think, what are all the things I've not done as a result of that?

00:18:59.000 When I was a kid, I was too shy and too ashamed to get into sport-type things.

00:19:03.000 I was embarrassed about that kind of thing.

00:19:06.000 I've started to do kickboxing and jiu-jitsu and even football or soccer, as you call it.

00:19:10.000 I've started to do all of those things now to start to learn about them as an adult man.

00:19:15.000 Well, it's a beautiful thing when you take chances and do things with other people that are taking chances and doing new things because you realize that it's really a lot of it is about the sort of acceptance and the embracing of vulnerability.

00:19:28.000 When you learn a new thing, it's very important to learn new things.

00:19:32.000 Is that you, right?

00:19:33.000 Because I hear you say that, and I know what that means, but do you actually, because I've got certain, yeah, I suppose prejudice is about you as a sort of black belt martial artist and as someone who's embedded in the MMA world.

00:19:46.000 You are a person who is happy and accepting of vulnerability.

00:19:49.000 Where in your life do you feel that you are embracing that vulnerability, Joe?

00:19:54.000 Well, I think every time you try something new, I'm like, in the archery thing, I've only been doing it for four years, but one of the things that I really loved about it is how fucking terrible I was when I first started.

00:20:04.000 And I was like, there's something to this that I have to figure out.

00:20:07.000 Yoga's a big one.

00:20:08.000 I've been really serious into yoga, like where I go several times a week, at least once a week, for about...

00:20:15.000 A year and a couple months, a year and like two months or something like that.

00:20:19.000 And one of the things that I really enjoy about it is that I'm not very good.

00:20:22.000 And I still get nervous before classes. 1.00

00:20:25.000 Fuck yeah, man. 1.00

00:20:25.000 Yeah, it's weird. 1.00

00:20:27.000 It's one of those weird places.

00:20:29.000 Like a yoga class is one of those weird places where...

00:20:32.000 There's almost a sacredness to it.

00:20:34.000 Like, you go in there, and no one can leave until the class is over.

00:20:38.000 Like, they tell you.

00:20:38.000 They lock the front door.

00:20:39.000 No one comes in to visit the studio.

00:20:41.000 Everything's locked in.

00:20:42.000 No one watches.

00:20:43.000 You go in there, and we don't talk.

00:20:45.000 No one talks.

00:20:46.000 You don't talk for 90 minutes, and you go through this...

00:20:49.000 Series of poses that are incredibly difficult, you're sweating like pounds and pounds of water up.

00:20:54.000 I mean, I'll weigh myself before and after, and I'll be down like four or five pounds, just from one class.

00:21:00.000 And it's very difficult, but it makes me nervous, you know?

00:21:03.000 I do get nervous before I do it, because it has this...

00:21:06.000 I think it's difficult to do.

00:21:08.000 I think I don't necessarily physically enjoy it while it's happening, but I enjoy the effects after it's over.

00:21:14.000 But I think it definitely imparts a feeling of vulnerability.

00:21:18.000 Because I always assume that if you are really good at...

00:21:21.000 This is perhaps because of where I come from.

00:21:24.000 I always assume that if you are dead good at some sort of fighting thing, that that is a highly transferable skill.

00:21:31.000 And I don't mean in a practical way, if you're good at kickboxing, you will also be good at yoga. 0.99

00:21:35.000 I just mean that if you're good at kickboxing, you don't give a shit that you're not good at yoga. 0.99

00:21:39.000 That would be right. 0.98

00:21:41.000 That's always...

00:21:41.000 That's been my assumption.

00:21:43.000 Whereas if you're good at yoga, you're not meant to say you're good at yoga, but by Jove I'm good at it.

00:21:49.000 I don't sort of like, when I'm in the MMA gym, start going like, well, you may be strangling me now, my man, but wait till we get to down with dog.

00:22:01.000 You know, I sort of feel like, alright, humility in a jiu-jitsu situation for a beginner is an absolute humility.

00:22:08.000 You recognize, you know, because I'm doing it with people that are good, and like, you know, they have to do it like they're doing it with a little kid, you know, like, and I'm very aware that they're doing that, you know?

00:22:15.000 Well, I think that if you get really good at martial arts, the only way to get really good is to be completely objective about where you are.

00:22:22.000 And if you're completely objective about where you are, and learning and trying to improve upon your skills, you apply that same feeling towards everything else.

00:22:31.000 So the feeling that you get when you're totally vulnerable in martial arts, you apply that same feeling when you're learning yoga.

00:22:36.000 Because that's the only way to get really good at it. 0.99

00:22:37.000 The only way to really do it, to 100% do it, is not to sit here and go, this doesn't mean shit, because I could choke out everybody in this fucking room. 1.00

00:22:44.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:22:44.000 That's not going to help in yoga. 0.99

00:22:46.000 It's not going to help you at all.

00:22:47.000 As a matter of fact, it'll hurt you.

00:22:48.000 It'll hurt you and it'll focus more on your own ego instead of the ego dissolving beneficial properties of the poses.

00:22:55.000 It will ruin the ambience in the yoga studio if you would say that out loud. 0.99

00:22:59.000 This doesn't mean shit. 0.99

00:23:00.000 I could choke everyone in this room. 1.00

00:23:01.000 Before I start this class, I just want you all to know I can fuck you up. 1.00

00:23:05.000 So, settle down. 0.99

00:23:06.000 Don't get crazy about your stretching.

00:23:08.000 I don't know if you've read the scriptures, but there is no violence.

00:23:11.000 Actually, there is quite a lot of violence, but it's usually a metaphor.

00:23:14.000 A lot of hash, too.

00:23:16.000 That was the thing that McKenna always used to talk about, that that's really what a lot of the ancient yogis were about.

00:23:21.000 They were about smoking chillums of hash and then doing all these poses.

00:23:25.000 And if you've ever done yoga while intoxicated on the edible variety in particular, marijuana, it's a beautiful thing.

00:23:33.000 I haven't because I only started yoga because I'd stopped eating edible hash and all other drugs.

00:23:41.000 The thing is with me, mate, is when I was taking drugs, that was what I was doing.

00:23:46.000 There wasn't room for now I might pop to yoga. 0.99

00:23:48.000 You were a fucking pro. 0.99

00:23:50.000 I was a full-time, dedicated pro, 100%. 1.00

00:23:53.000 That's it, every day.

00:23:54.000 I can't take time out.

00:23:56.000 What was the big drug?

00:23:56.000 What was the problem?

00:23:57.000 I progressed through an escalation of drug use that could be on any Republican leaflet.

00:24:04.000 It's like I started with like...

00:24:08.000 Kids, don't smoke pot or you will become a heroin addict.

00:24:11.000 That's literally what I did.

00:24:13.000 I started with recreational drugs, was unable to...

00:24:16.000 And the reason is this, because it's not the fault of the drugs themselves.

00:24:19.000 There's a component within me that is looking to find a solution that doesn't have...

00:24:24.000 You see, when you have that perspective on going into a place and being willing to go in there and be vulnerable, that kind of thing for me, that makes me very sort of what I call hot, you know, like scared. 1.00

00:24:33.000 Like, oh, fuck, fuck. 0.99

00:24:34.000 So for me, drugs were always a thing that I trusted to make me feel a little bit better. 1.00

00:24:39.000 And so when I was smoking weed, it was like, oh right, there's that thing I found that makes me feel relaxed when it became coke and heroin and crack.

00:24:46.000 It was the same reason.

00:24:47.000 It was an attempt to nullify, medicate, And contend with an inner sense of disconnectedness and discontentment, which I think is a thing that comes up a lot on your show in other guises, because I think that's, in some way or another, we're all looking for this sense of connection,

00:25:03.000 this sense of completion.

00:25:04.000 I think, in fact, the thing that led me to be a drug addict, or sex addict, gambler, whatever kind of addict you are, I think the thing that's driving it is this need for connection, this sense that Is this life? 0.96

00:25:16.000 Because this don't fucking seem right to me somehow, this system you've got this living by. 0.95

00:25:21.000 Like, give me the real deal. 0.91

00:25:24.000 What's the real thing you're not telling me? 0.99

00:25:25.000 And that's why I'm fascinated by people like Terence McKenna, who says, like, if you, you know, what he called don't stay on the pedestrian levels of consciousness, there's deep shit down there. 0.92

00:25:34.000 There's fascinating stuff. 0.96

00:25:35.000 There's machine elves.

00:25:36.000 There's corridors of kaleidoscopic wonder to explore.

00:25:39.000 There's union.

00:25:40.000 There's God, you know what I mean?

00:25:41.000 Well, for a guy like you, that might be the best argument for trying to do it the Kundalini way, because you have to earn it. 0.55

00:25:47.000 You're right.

00:25:48.000 I knew it would be harder for me.

00:25:50.000 I've got to do it by stretching and aggressive breathing.

00:25:53.000 Maybe. 0.99

00:25:54.000 Instead of hitting that DMT shit, double half, ten doses... 1.00

00:25:58.000 Bashing it into my leathery old lungs! 1.00

00:26:01.000 You just take three.

00:26:02.000 You just take three and then you sit back.

00:26:04.000 Tell me what you see in there.

00:26:05.000 You can go back in in about 15 minutes.

00:26:06.000 It can't be described.

00:26:07.000 It's beyond language. 1.00

00:26:08.000 Yeah, if I describe it, it's just my stubby fucking stupid ape fingers trying to draw God with a crayon on a patch of dirt. 1.00

00:26:18.000 It's not even a proper canvas. 1.00

00:26:19.000 That's the problem of all religions. 1.00

00:26:21.000 Sure.

00:26:22.000 Just a question.

00:26:23.000 If you do see what you were actually looking for, what do you think is curious?

00:26:28.000 Once you're there and you discover it, what do you come back and aren't we just back to all this?

00:26:34.000 You know, you're right in a way, Jim, because I have had moments in both sobriety recovery and in active addiction where I've gone, oh my God, I feel truly connected.

00:26:44.000 Now, I've had a lot of those moments in what I would call unhealthy highs, like, you know, sort of sexual kind of, oh my God, this is so amazing, I want to live in this moment forever, or moments on drugs where I've felt sort of pure bliss.

00:26:54.000 But nowadays, I tend to find it through bloody altruism and kindness and service.

00:27:00.000 Sometimes when I think I'm being truly useful, I feel this sense of connection.

00:27:04.000 But you are right.

00:27:04.000 It is not sustainable.

00:27:06.000 There is no Viagra for enlightenment.

00:27:08.000 You can't stay hard.

00:27:11.000 You feel like, oh, that's it.

00:27:13.000 I understand it.

00:27:13.000 Right, from this moment forth, I'm enlightened.

00:27:15.000 That's it. 0.99

00:27:16.000 I'm never going to be anybody's bitch again. 0.97

00:27:17.000 I'm never going to do anything straight for the money. 0.98

00:27:19.000 I'm never going to care what other people think about me ever again. 0.99

00:27:21.000 That shit's behind me. 0.99

00:27:22.000 But then someone will say something or someone will do something and I feel like, oh, I'm back here again. 1.00

00:27:30.000 Capture the Divine.

00:27:32.000 I've had in my life moments of it.

00:27:35.000 I practice yoga on my own.

00:27:37.000 I practice yoga this morning.

00:27:39.000 There's positions where you go upside down and stuff.

00:27:42.000 If you were just determined to describe things in a material and secular way, you'd say, well, you were just dizzy.

00:27:48.000 What I feel is, I go upside down, and when I come up straight again, I feel my own individual consciousness, my sense of myself, I feel it sort of disappear, like I can't remember who I am for a moment.

00:27:57.000 It all goes away.

00:27:58.000 And then I feel this secondary awareness in the back of my mind, like a sort of a grid, an awareness, and I sort of think, hold on a minute, I'm not me.

00:28:06.000 I'm not me.

00:28:07.000 There's something else inside of me.

00:28:09.000 And the thing that, you know, my big sort of...

00:28:11.000 When I was doing that internet series, The Trues, for a while, that got me into all sorts of interesting scrapes and challenges over the last sort of 18 months, two years, it was the idea of, you know, there's someone inside, our own consciousness is not free.

00:28:25.000 We are not free within our own consciousness.

00:28:27.000 We've been conditioned to the point that we don't know that we're conditioned anymore. 1.00

00:28:31.000 And I think that that sort of, you know, you notice it in lightning rod moments when there is sort of like an election and you think, oh my God, are people really into this fucking shit? 1.00

00:28:41.000 What is... 1.00

00:28:41.000 What's going on? 1.00

00:28:42.000 Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage. 0.79

00:28:48.000 Sorry, continue.

00:28:51.000 That's the perfect riff to score that moment.

00:28:55.000 Thank you very much.

00:28:55.000 Is that Rage Against the Machine?

00:28:57.000 No, no.

00:28:58.000 Pumpkins.

00:28:59.000 Smashing pumpkins.

00:28:59.000 That's the Smashing Pumpkins.

00:29:01.000 Dope song.

00:29:02.000 Can I ask you, since, because you found your outlet, you said you're putting, you're finding just good, something good.

00:29:10.000 Yeah.

00:29:10.000 Have you, I'm just a question, since you've been putting it out there, have you noticed There's more and more is coming back or it's like, eh, I'm noticing it more.

00:29:20.000 It always was there.

00:29:20.000 I just chose go the way.

00:29:22.000 I don't know.

00:29:23.000 These are just questions.

00:29:24.000 Well, mate, right?

00:29:25.000 It's still like, you know, if you read any bloody, when you read this stuff in religious books, like say in the Bible, like it's sort of, it's going, look, become good and get to the point where even being good, you're not even doing it for that reason anymore.

00:29:38.000 You've become detached from outcomes, you know, like in from Buddhist terms, you know, like that you're, you're, No longer about fear and desire.

00:29:45.000 You're no longer trying to just fulfil yourself, right?

00:29:48.000 I'm not bloody there yet.

00:29:50.000 You know, me, even if I do something good, like go to a homeless shelter and help out for the day and all that sort of thing, a little bit at the back of my mind's going, look at you, helping out at this homeless shelter.

00:30:00.000 Well done!

00:30:02.000 Well done!

00:30:03.000 And if someone went by and saw me helping at the homeless shelter, I'd be really pleased. 0.99

00:30:07.000 Why is no one seeing me help in this fucking homeless shelter? 1.00

00:30:10.000 Don't touch me! 1.00

00:30:11.000 You stink! 0.99

00:30:13.000 So I'm still a little bit looking for rewards. 0.99

00:30:16.000 That's a very hard... 0.93

00:30:17.000 But this is the thing as well about being a comedian, is you can't get too fucking sincere and earnest that you stop being bloody funny. 0.55

00:30:24.000 Do you know what I mean? 0.93

00:30:25.000 Don't you find that?

00:30:26.000 That when you're stuff that you're really passionate about and you really believe in...

00:30:28.000 Because comedy, I think, is constantly ripping down.

00:30:31.000 You sort of set up a premise and then you rip it down again. 0.99

00:30:34.000 I think comedy is the energy of constantly going, no, this is all bullshit. 1.00

00:30:38.000 This is all fucking bullshit. 1.00

00:30:39.000 So when you're sincere, you... 1.00

00:30:45.000 You've got to be able to differentiate between your forms of expression, like your art form, like a piece that you're creating, and you yourself as a person. 0.93

00:30:54.000 And sometimes, I used to think when I was younger, man, I can't be fucking around with meditation or enlightenment because it's going to ruin me. 0.96

00:31:01.000 All my favorite comedians were junkies and crazy people, you know, like Kinnison and Pryor and Hicks. 0.99

00:31:07.000 Crazy people and junkies. 0.99

00:31:08.000 You can't get enlightened. 1.00

00:31:09.000 You just gotta fucking be a wild man. 1.00

00:31:11.000 That's how you get comedy. 1.00

00:31:12.000 I'm not so convinced anymore.

00:31:14.000 And I think the creating of these memes and these characters that you can mock and make fun of inside your act is a piece of art.

00:31:24.000 You're doing something.

00:31:25.000 Just like a painting doesn't make you a madman.

00:31:28.000 You could paint a Frazetta, Conan the Barbarian painting.

00:31:32.000 It doesn't make you a mass murderer.

00:31:34.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:31:34.000 It's like you're creating a piece of art and sometimes the more points of view that you've considered, the more it enhances that work of art.

00:31:42.000 You raise a good point there because in certain In the sectors of the art world, that has always been accepted, that, you know, Heronius Bosch doing a triptych of hell don't mean, oh, I mean, this guy's fucking crazy! 0.97

00:31:54.000 You know, he may have been, I don't know.

00:31:56.000 But, like, when in hip-hop, you know, like, people talk about, you know, popping caps and whatnot...

00:32:03.000 It's taken a lot more literally.

00:32:07.000 You're not afforded it.

00:32:08.000 And it's a comedic persona.

00:32:10.000 Comedians get it a lot.

00:32:11.000 British comedians as well.

00:32:12.000 There's a few comedians.

00:32:13.000 Myself.

00:32:14.000 There's a Scottish comedian called Frankie Boyle.

00:32:17.000 When people are very shocking...

00:32:19.000 I can tell sometimes that comics are saying things to detonate territories of consciousness. 0.99

00:32:27.000 Fucking hell! 0.98

00:32:28.000 Bill Hicks did that a lot, I think. 0.99

00:32:30.000 He would say things to him and let you go, whoa, steady, and then he smacked you in the mouth and then he gently tells you that it's just a ride or whatever it is, now that he's got you where he wants you.

00:32:40.000 But people, I think we live in a culture now that's very prohibitive about where we go with those kind of ideas.

00:32:49.000 So people are very quick.

00:32:50.000 I've myself been on the receiving end of a lot of, what do I want to say, judgment. 0.97

00:32:55.000 And I'm like, hold on a minute, I'm fucking joking.

00:32:56.000 But don't you think that that's also because we live in this new media world of social interaction, this new social media world where anybody can chime in at any point in time? 0.89

00:33:06.000 And it's the first time ever that that's happened.

00:33:08.000 Yeah, you might be right.

00:33:09.000 A friend of mine in England made a documentary about what has happened to the idea of the great man.

00:33:15.000 You know, like in American literature, like, you know, Saul Bellow, Philip Roth...

00:33:19.000 Or like, you know, Muhammad Ali, rest in peace.

00:33:23.000 Like, nowadays, people don't rise to that position anymore because there's thousands of Lilliputians pulling them down with tiny arrows as soon as their heads above the parapet, innit?

00:33:34.000 No one's allowed to be. 0.87

00:33:35.000 You know, people will be, oh, well, Martin Luther King had affairs, oh, Malcolm X, he was inside, he'd done this, that, and the other.

00:33:40.000 You know, like, it's, like, yeah, there are so many good things that have come from social media, so many good things, you know, the possibility for communication, the connection, instantaneous, all those things, it's wonderful, but it does, all things in the end become an expression of the dominant consciousness, 0.99

00:33:56.000 you know, and if people are doubtful, cynical, pessimistic, then that, the palette, you know, that shit ends up on the canvas. 0.98

00:34:02.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:34:03.000 It also might be a case of, you know, everybody's always worried about wealth inequality in this world.

00:34:09.000 There's also a possibility of consciousness inequality, and that these people that have grown up with shitty parents and shitty neighborhoods, they feel left out by even your ability to seek peace and altruism.

00:34:22.000 Like, who are you, this guy?

00:34:23.000 Why are you so lucky?

00:34:25.000 You're financially fortunate, you have beautiful jeans, you're handsome, you have a wonderful... 1.00

00:34:29.000 Every time I walk in a fucking magazine shop, I gotta look at your face. 0.99

00:34:33.000 I mean, I love you, dude, but come on. 1.00

00:34:34.000 Banging starlets.

00:34:35.000 Enough. 1.00

00:34:35.000 This motherfucker. 1.00

00:34:36.000 And so why is he so happy? 1.00

00:34:37.000 Why is he allowed to have this happiness come to him so easily?

00:34:40.000 So there's anger at that.

00:34:42.000 The same kind of anger that you would get at the elite upper class, like the billionaires and the one percenters of the world.

00:34:48.000 People will also look at a person like you and, like, there's a consciousness inequality.

00:34:53.000 There's also a starting point in equality.

00:34:57.000 I'm sure, like you were saying, you were insecure when you were young, and it was difficult, and I certainly was, and Jim and I knew each other when we were young and insecure and starting out as comics.

00:35:05.000 We've been friends forever.

00:35:06.000 But that sort of, this experience where you are you now, and people look at that, and they're upset that, well, why does this guy have so much? 0.98

00:35:16.000 Why is this guy in this place where you can so conveniently search for truth, where I have to pay my fucking bills? 1.00

00:35:22.000 And I'm in student loans, and I'm in a shitty neighborhood, and my kids are sick, and my wife's a cunt. 1.00

00:35:27.000 You know, this is like... 1.00

00:35:29.000 And then they get on Twitter, and they're like, FUCK YOU RUSSELL! You fucking cunt! 1.00

00:35:34.000 I hope your ponytail chokes you in your sleep! 1.00

00:35:37.000 Right.

00:35:38.000 Well, it never will, because I put it into a bun.

00:35:41.000 I can actually understand that level of discontentment because, to be honest, I'm subject to jealousy and envy myself.

00:35:48.000 I spot it when it comes up, when I feel myself go, oh, why is that not me?

00:35:53.000 I should be having that. 0.98

00:35:54.000 But now I try not to justify feeling shit. 0.96

00:35:59.000 As soon as I start feeling bad, I don't think, well, this is why I feel bad, and I'd like to stay feeling bad. 0.96

00:36:04.000 I try and go, hold on a minute.

00:36:05.000 If you believe that the external world is an illusion, that it's temporary, it's transient, and what's real is your deep connection to your inner self, and you can express that in myriad ways, and we're here to have this experience as an animal, and I'm fascinated by the numerous ways that you're into doing it,

00:36:21.000 and it's something that I really want to learn more about, is loads of the stuff that goes on on your show.

00:36:26.000 But, like... 0.96

00:36:28.000 I can well appreciate people seeing, particularly as the way it's presented, seeing me on television thinking, fuck that guy, fuck that guy, because they don't automatically know where I came from or what I had to do to get here, or the fact that I get here and think, hold on a minute, 0.99

00:36:43.000 this isn't what I thought it would be. 0.99

00:36:45.000 Almost as soon as I got those things, I was like, this isn't real.

00:36:49.000 You can't make yourself happy.

00:36:50.000 I don't want to be poor again.

00:36:52.000 I'll be straight about that, because I hated it.

00:36:55.000 It was really frightening.

00:36:58.000 You cannot resolve those inner issues.

00:37:01.000 I now know that, empirically, for a fact.

00:37:02.000 I'm really lucky, and that's why I'm fascinated by the addiction model, and that's why I am reluctant to smash my mind to a piece of DMT, although it does sound fun.

00:37:09.000 I would really, really love to do it. 1.00

00:37:09.000 Don't pee a pussy. 1.00

00:37:11.000 I'll do it! 1.00

00:37:13.000 Peer pressure, you say.

00:37:14.000 I'm in.

00:37:17.000 It's because I know I've tried fame, I've tried money, I've tried drugs, I've tried sex, I've tried all of those things to make myself feel better.

00:37:25.000 And oddly, none of them have worked.

00:37:27.000 None of them have worked. 0.97

00:37:28.000 I'm not, oh, poor me, poor me, while there's fucking refugee crisis the world over. 1.00

00:37:32.000 No, you're just being honest. 0.94

00:37:32.000 You're just being honest about your experience. 0.94

00:37:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:37:35.000 And I would, like, what I am now thinking, Joe, is what is the most, they say that, you know, happiness is where what the world needs meets what you have to offer.

00:37:45.000 Well, the world needs what you have to offer.

00:37:47.000 And I think, God, is there a way that I can communicate some of the things that I have learned about connecting, about letting go of my flaws, taking responsibility for the problems that I am creating?

00:37:57.000 Is there anything about that that I can convey?

00:38:00.000 Can I convey it, hopefully, in a comedic and accessible way?

00:38:02.000 And that's sort of where my focus is beginning to fall.

00:38:05.000 And I'm assuming that's...

00:38:07.000 What you're already doing, isn't it?

00:38:08.000 That's what I'm attempting.

00:38:09.000 I think everybody who's trying to better themselves is attempting some form of that.

00:38:14.000 But it's also what you're dealing with when you're talking about the criticism of you.

00:38:17.000 They're trying to define you based on one interview or one article or one thing that you said in response to one piece of current event.

00:38:25.000 So it's real.

00:38:27.000 They're quote mining a lot of times in a lot of ways, looking to have a more concentrated form of that That jealous expression that we were talking about?

00:38:35.000 Like, there's gotta be something about this guy I don't like.

00:38:38.000 That's it.

00:38:38.000 I don't like how he went on Fox News and mocked America.

00:38:42.000 Yeah, you're mocking the journalism?

00:38:44.000 Yeah?

00:38:44.000 You think you're better than these people that are here telling the truth?

00:38:48.000 Well, I think the way that works for me is that that is a thing that is called confirmation bias, isn't it?

00:38:52.000 You've already feeling something inside yourself, and then you're sort of unconsciously, you're scanning data. 0.65

00:38:58.000 To get confirmation of, like, so if I feel insecure because you're super good at MMA and have black belts in jiu-jitsu, instead of dealing with my own feeling of, oh, fuck, if this becomes a fight, I'm not going to be able to deal with it, I would rather go, no, this guy's...

00:39:13.000 And I'll find something to complete that.

00:39:16.000 Oh, he had advantages that I didn't have.

00:39:17.000 If I had this, I would have been...

00:39:19.000 But, like, you know, like...

00:39:21.000 But really, the feeling is in me, and this is what my personal experience of actually getting clean from drugs has taught me, is that what other people think about me is none of my business, and it's something that's happening in their own consciousness, and they're always looking for some coordinates upon which to project those feelings, 0.97

00:39:36.000 and I know that because I fucking do it. 0.96

00:39:38.000 If I start getting jealous about some super successful guy or someone who's super good at fighting or whatever, I'm dealing with something inside myself, so now I try not to bring that shit to the world. 0.98

00:39:49.000 I try to go, right, Russell, you better deal with this feeling of inadequacy or this feeling of jealousy or this feeling of insecurity because otherwise it's going to ruin your experience of being human instead of going, no, the problem is this guy or that guy or this person having a successful podcast. 0.90

00:40:01.000 I try to go, no, no, Russell.

00:40:03.000 Connect with yourself. 0.99

00:40:04.000 You know, I'm trying not to blame the outside world for my shit anymore. 0.97

00:40:08.000 Well, I think in a lot of ways, yeah, these are really complicated thoughts that we have and in many ways we're almost a victim of this constant need to evolve. 0.98

00:40:17.000 Like the body and the brain is set up to constantly be comparing ourselves to others and to feed off of each other, whether it's through jealousy or inspiration to try to achieve higher and higher levels of competency at anything.

00:40:30.000 To develop more social credibility, to develop more clout in the community, to feel better about your own existence.

00:40:37.000 It's almost like what we're dealing with is some sort of a programming that is constantly set up to innovate and to continue to get better and better at everything. 0.99

00:40:46.000 So if I see you in some movie, I'm like, How come I'm not in these fucking movies? 0.93

00:40:51.000 I don't even get these auditions. 0.99

00:40:52.000 I need to fire my manager.

00:40:54.000 And these ideas, they motivate movement.

00:40:57.000 They motivate momentum.

00:40:59.000 Yes, yes.

00:41:00.000 And you could use them or not use them, but we don't know how to handle them. 0.99

00:41:03.000 And no one's telling us, and our parents didn't tell us, and their parents didn't tell them shit. 0.99

00:41:08.000 Back to the slavery! 0.99

00:41:11.000 We're all just tribal.

00:41:13.000 And at the end of the day, what you're supposed to do is help other...

00:41:18.000 There's no better feeling in the world.

00:41:20.000 Then encouraging another human to live right, and they live right.

00:41:24.000 Those are the moments you remember in life.

00:41:26.000 Go ahead, Joe. 1.00

00:41:26.000 Getting your dick sucked on a Learjet while you're pouring champagne on both of you. 1.00

00:41:30.000 Oh, no, that is relaxing. 1.00

00:41:31.000 And fucking Jay-Z is playing in the background. 0.99

00:41:33.000 No, it is nice. 1.00

00:41:34.000 On the Learjet, getting your dick sucked. 1.00

00:41:35.000 No, that's quicker. 1.00

00:41:36.000 If you can't get a Learjet...

00:41:40.000 No, I'm going to Tibet!

00:41:42.000 I am going to get to Tibet! 0.93

00:41:44.000 Take that out of your mouth! 1.00

00:41:45.000 You raise a good point, because what you were talking about there is how biological imperatives, whatever that force was that made us divide from one cell to two cells, to ten cells, to fish, to frog, to To mammals, to cities, to all these architectural Wi-Fi wonders.

00:42:01.000 That force, as you say, is still in us.

00:42:03.000 Now, these imperatives to grow, as you were saying there, Jimbo, if you're living in a tribal society, it's a necessary function. 0.70

00:42:09.000 But what's happened to our species?

00:42:11.000 Do you know that cliche, you are what you eat? 1.00

00:42:14.000 And it means if you eat shit food, you'll be shit, and I 100% agree with that. 1.00

00:42:17.000 But in a different way, you are what you eat. 1.00

00:42:20.000 If you look at what we eat now, we eat monoculture foods, like we're in a Swathees, endless fields of wheat across...

00:42:27.000 God, I drove through...

00:42:28.000 What state would that have been that I drove through? 0.99

00:42:30.000 It was one of your crazy... 0.98

00:42:32.000 Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas. 0.99

00:42:34.000 Man, it was nothing but it!

00:42:35.000 It was like the whole country was made of it.

00:42:37.000 You know what else is there?

00:42:38.000 Go on.

00:42:38.000 Jesus.

00:42:39.000 Oh, I love that guy.

00:42:40.000 No, he'll cheer you up.

00:42:44.000 As long as you understand what he was saying. 0.98

00:42:45.000 The main thing that I think he was saying was, don't be gay. 0.95

00:42:48.000 That's what I picked up. 0.77

00:42:51.000 I got from him, just be cool. 0.96

00:42:54.000 No, no, he said don't be gay. 0.98

00:42:58.000 That's what he said. 0.73

00:42:59.000 Yeah, a lot of people have missed the point with this be cool thing. 0.98

00:43:01.000 It's don't be gay. 1.00

00:43:02.000 Let's focus down on this, as yet not mentioned, don't be gay. 1.00

00:43:07.000 And then, of course, the way that meat is consumed, endless abattoirs and slaughterhouses of condensed animals, not consumed as they would be tribally, picked off here and there, eaten once a week. 0.74

00:43:19.000 I'm a vegetarian myself.

00:43:21.000 So we have fields full of wheat, abattoirs full of meat, And we ourselves are similarly what we eat.

00:43:29.000 We have become cells of energy, trapped in cities, not free to be tribal beings anymore.

00:43:34.000 We've become so disconnected from what it's supposed to be, to be this primate, that now these biological imperatives, the desire to procreate, the desire to have status, the desire to even get high, all these things have become permutated because they're no longer anchored in a reality for which we were designed.

00:43:51.000 And imagine your position, where you're in a completely unique position even in the Western world.

00:43:57.000 You become a media superstar.

00:43:59.000 You become a movie star.

00:44:01.000 You become someone when you show up, people have cameras and you walk and they take photos of you.

00:44:06.000 You get out of a car and everyone cheers.

00:44:08.000 It becomes this really unusual event when you just arrive somewhere.

00:44:13.000 So it sets you up for an incredibly high dose of this sort of toxic celebrity feeling that you have to sort of navigate, and you have to navigate it based on the other people that have mostly unsuccessfully navigated it before you. 0.99

00:44:27.000 If you start and think about how many fucking movie stars wind up in a pool of their own vomit, Or, you know, covered in whatever the fuck they're doing. 0.98

00:44:34.000 I mean, it's a large number of famous people wind up fucking it all up, but they can't handle it anymore. 0.99

00:44:40.000 They go Heath Ledger or a million different ways. 0.99

00:44:43.000 You know, it's pills or just fucking implosion or whatever the fuck it is. 0.99

00:44:47.000 Would you like to feed my giraffe? 0.99

00:44:51.000 Sorry.

00:44:52.000 Previous podcast.

00:44:53.000 You start losing your mind in the vanity.

00:44:55.000 For anyone that's listening to this podcast just because I'm on it, and I can't imagine there's very many of you, there's a reference there to a giraffe that even I'm struggling with in this moment.

00:45:04.000 I just think that your unique perspective, and it's a very unique perspective, because not a lot of people get to become movie stars, is it's...

00:45:12.000 Something that the average person is trying to put it into a perspective where they can grasp the amount of pressure and the weird way that you have to interface with the world, where people worship you and everywhere you go people love you and you don't even know them.

00:45:28.000 That's a very strange thing.

00:45:30.000 This is the thing.

00:45:32.000 We have to think of problems, I think, in terms of their essence, not of their scale.

00:45:37.000 You see, like, because if you, like, how I stop myself, like, you know, when I was more immersed in Hollywood and fame and stuff, like, it isn't, like, you walk in a room and, like, you know, when I was single and I'd get lots of attention from women, obviously that's a short circuit, that, because you do tend to fulfill that one.

00:45:52.000 You say, oh my god, I'm able to have sex with people.

00:45:54.000 I'm going to do it. 0.98

00:45:55.000 Also, it doesn't make sense.

00:45:55.000 All of a sudden, they want you.

00:45:56.000 Yeah, how did that happen?

00:45:58.000 That was amazing.

00:45:59.000 Subverting of the natural process.

00:46:01.000 The matrix is broken.

00:46:02.000 Oh my god, I'm allowed to do what I want! 0.99

00:46:04.000 Fucking hell! 0.99

00:46:05.000 Yeah, I lost myself. 1.00

00:46:07.000 I wonder why you're an addict.

00:46:08.000 It's normal. 1.00

00:46:09.000 Look, it's called Pussy is Awesome. 1.00

00:46:12.000 That is a difficult truth to overwhelm, Joe. 0.99

00:46:15.000 It's impossible.

00:46:16.000 It's impossible to avoid the pull.

00:46:17.000 I mean, you're talking about the gravity of Jupiter.

00:46:19.000 It sucks in asteroids.

00:46:21.000 I mean, that's what it is. 1.00

00:46:22.000 It's just too goddamn strong.

00:46:23.000 The compulsion to breed and the compulsion to be special so that you can breed more than anyone else and you can have the choice. 0.85

00:46:30.000 That's what your DNA calls.

00:46:31.000 It screams.

00:46:33.000 But can we overcome our nature?

00:46:35.000 You already have.

00:46:35.000 You have.

00:46:36.000 You have.

00:46:37.000 Hey, thank you.

00:46:37.000 Hey, look at you.

00:46:39.000 This is the best podcast I've ever been on in my life.

00:46:41.000 The affirmation is flying at me.

00:46:42.000 But think about what you're doing.

00:46:43.000 You've decided to step away from all the bullshit, move away from Hollywood, and sort of take a break while you can financially and you can with your position in life and just relax and get a look at this. 0.82

00:46:54.000 Because what? 0.98

00:46:55.000 Get a look at it from afar.

00:46:55.000 Really ego thing of people giving me lots of attention.

00:46:58.000 Quite quickly after I used to get a lot of fame attention, I'd think, if someone else more famous than me came in, then all this attention would go there.

00:47:06.000 So what is it really?

00:47:08.000 What is it really?

00:47:10.000 I can't feed on that.

00:47:12.000 And even if I don't have that, even if I don't literally have the experience of basking in a spotlight and then Justin Timberlake walking in and see the light disappear from my face and being plunged once again into the shadows of my youth, even if I don't have to actually have that experience, I know that when I get home,

00:47:28.000 I'm still just me, that none of it is real, that you can't...

00:47:32.000 There's no nutrition in it.

00:47:34.000 You can't get any...

00:47:35.000 It's not like, oh, right, this amount of fame hasn't worked.

00:47:38.000 I'll try and get even more famous.

00:47:40.000 It's because the essence is the thing.

00:47:42.000 The essence is the thing.

00:47:44.000 It's to try to connect what I am doing or what you are doing or what one is doing to something that is...

00:47:51.000 That feels beautiful to you.

00:47:52.000 That feels nutritional to you.

00:47:54.000 And for me, that is really, really hard.

00:47:57.000 Because it's very hard to enjoy those pat on the back things.

00:48:00.000 Particularly if you felt inadequate and insecure.

00:48:03.000 It's very hard to break off of that track.

00:48:06.000 Of course.

00:48:06.000 And I feel...

00:48:07.000 Lucky, but it's not over for me.

00:48:09.000 I feel lucky to be awakening from that thing.

00:48:12.000 I feel lucky to be awakening from it, but it's not over for me.

00:48:15.000 I still feel it.

00:48:16.000 I still feel it.

00:48:17.000 If another English comedian, if Ricky Gervais came in now, I'd have to go, oh, right, okay, Ricky Gervais is here. 1.00

00:48:22.000 Right, shit. 0.97

00:48:22.000 I've got to adjust for that with Sacha Baron Cohen. 0.97

00:48:25.000 Right, okay, right.

00:48:26.000 Now, this is happening now.

00:48:27.000 I'm aware that in this moment I have a cachet of being the only English person and all that sort of stuff.

00:48:31.000 But it's not... 0.99

00:48:32.000 If those are the things I'm using to prop up my identity, I'm fucked. 0.90

00:48:35.000 But you being aware of those facts, aware of the fact that you're constantly struggling in this, is what's going to help you. 0.94

00:48:41.000 I mean, it's not like you can avoid the sound of the...

00:48:46.000 What are they?

00:48:47.000 The harpies? 0.87

00:48:48.000 What are those things that pull the boats into the rocks?

00:48:50.000 Sirens.

00:48:50.000 Sirens that call the boats into the rocks.

00:48:53.000 It's compelling.

00:48:54.000 It's absolutely compelling, but you understand what it is now, so you don't have to do it.

00:48:59.000 You don't have to gravitate towards it. 0.82

00:49:00.000 You know that if you just went and got a bunch of hookers and some coke and you hold yourself up in a hotel room, there'd be some moments that would be pretty goddamn good about that. 0.98

00:49:09.000 But also there'd be the repercussions, the fact that you've slid back towards addiction, the problems, so you avoid it. 0.93

00:49:16.000 That's right. 1.00

00:49:16.000 But the pull is always going to be there, especially when the girls have big tits and little waists and big asses. 1.00

00:49:22.000 It's like a party unless they can keep a secret. 1.00

00:49:25.000 Yes, yes.

00:49:25.000 It's very difficult.

00:49:27.000 That's why I live in the abstinence model.

00:49:31.000 That's why I try not to press those buttons because that stuff is, you know, you can't mess, don't rattle the cage, don't wake that guy up, leave him alone.

00:49:38.000 Like Hulk, innit?

00:49:38.000 Don't make me angry, he won't like me when I'm angry.

00:49:40.000 Just let me be little Hulk. 0.87

00:49:42.000 Yeah, just let me chill.

00:49:44.000 Yeah, I mean, look, as we've gone over, you're navigating some waters that very few people get to go through and there's no books written about it.

00:49:51.000 No one has gone through what you've done and achieved some sort of a yogic state of enlightenment where they've sort of expressed it to everybody else and said, this is the roadmap.

00:49:59.000 This is the path.

00:50:01.000 I have to just say, just knowing some addicts, to me, what you're doing is more powerful than when you were the ultimate, ultimate star.

00:50:11.000 Because I'm telling...

00:50:12.000 This guy, sometimes...

00:50:13.000 I mean, we all feel that way.

00:50:14.000 I'll get really...

00:50:16.000 For a little bit, I'll go, you know, I can't believe...

00:50:19.000 That guy?

00:50:20.000 I'm trying to do this.

00:50:21.000 And that guy, he's...

00:50:22.000 I think he's 15 years now.

00:50:24.000 And he'll turn to me and go, Jim, I've been to your house.

00:50:27.000 You have so much more.

00:50:28.000 Because you have so much more in your life.

00:50:31.000 You don't want...

00:50:31.000 Trust me, you don't want that.

00:50:33.000 It's a struggle.

00:50:34.000 But when he says that, those statements are so powerful to me.

00:50:38.000 Because he can see that...

00:50:41.000 Vanity and wanting to be...

00:50:42.000 That's why I said the giraffe, because that defines my success.

00:50:46.000 You know what successful I am?

00:50:47.000 I bought a giraffe.

00:50:48.000 I had it shipped here.

00:50:49.000 I'm successful. 1.00

00:50:51.000 That shit is worse than heroin. 1.00

00:50:53.000 I learned it's worse than heroin. 1.00

00:50:55.000 I can't imagine.

00:50:56.000 His ladder was...

00:50:57.000 Yeah.

00:50:58.000 Is.

00:50:58.000 It was...

00:50:59.000 Was, still is, up here.

00:51:01.000 But in a similar way.

00:51:02.000 Up here!

00:51:03.000 That's a lot to live on.

00:51:04.000 I don't know.

00:51:05.000 I tip my hat to you.

00:51:07.000 You were going through a tornado!

00:51:09.000 You've done it in a similar way as well.

00:51:12.000 Not on his level.

00:51:13.000 Maybe not on his level, but Jim was on Saturday Night Live.

00:51:16.000 He's one of the best comedians in the country.

00:51:18.000 He's one of the best stand-up comics in the world, really. 0.99

00:51:21.000 He fucking crushes. 0.99

00:51:23.000 He's so goddamn funny. 1.00

00:51:24.000 But he decided, and we've been friends forever, he decided a long time ago, you know what, fuck this, I'm going to live in New Jersey, I'm going to do gigs, and I'm not going to worry about nothing. 0.99

00:51:32.000 I'm just going to have a good time and perform and not worry about fame at all. 0.98

00:51:36.000 I'm just going to step the fuck away and just work on my act, work on performing, having a good time, and trying to enjoy my life.

00:51:42.000 And that's a very admirable thing, too. 0.91

00:51:44.000 What you've done is a very admirable thing in a lot of ways.

00:51:47.000 But when you first walked in here, you just kind of mentioned that.

00:51:50.000 And you said, ah, I'm suburbanized.

00:51:51.000 I'm suburbanized.

00:51:53.000 You said that a couple times.

00:51:55.000 Domesticated.

00:51:56.000 Domesticated, I'm sorry.

00:51:57.000 You said domesticated.

00:51:58.000 They don't have suburbs in England.

00:51:59.000 They have the country.

00:52:00.000 But that domesticated...

00:52:02.000 The Volca.

00:52:05.000 To me, it's more...

00:52:06.000 You get more gratitude out of it.

00:52:11.000 And the end of your days, those are the moments...

00:52:13.000 You're going to remember those little moments, whether it was your friend or whatever.

00:52:16.000 There's nothing wrong with that world.

00:52:17.000 And you can always come back once...

00:52:21.000 Most of the responsibilities are done.

00:52:22.000 That's the problem, though.

00:52:23.000 I warn my wife all the time, like, listen, kids got a couple years left?

00:52:27.000 Kids are out of there. 1.00

00:52:28.000 And I tell them, don't get fucking pregnant, man. 1.00

00:52:30.000 I'm 20 years from going ape shit. 1.00

00:52:32.000 And I will have that right to go ape shit. 1.00

00:52:34.000 I watched my father, World War II vet, go into 80s years old, and I watched him go, I'm just going to go ape shit. 1.00

00:52:42.000 I don't give a shit about anything anymore. 0.99

00:52:44.000 So what you're doing is, to me, that's... 0.98

00:52:48.000 I cheer you on big time.

00:52:50.000 And I know this is corny, but I saw you on a couple of interviews.

00:52:52.000 As soon as you were, I mean, you were all over the place.

00:52:56.000 And I can see you in that room trying to find who you were while everyone else was trying to throw out a completely different character.

00:53:05.000 Maybe I'm crazy and I'm in the woods right now.

00:53:07.000 But I would see that and I'm like, oh, they're coming at this guy.

00:53:11.000 Well, you had the awareness to say, this is all weird.

00:53:14.000 It did feel weird. 0.99

00:53:15.000 It's weird as fuck. 0.88

00:53:16.000 It's weird! 0.98

00:53:16.000 How can it not be weird? 0.98

00:53:17.000 You're a movie star.

00:53:18.000 It's creepy!

00:53:19.000 It's a very unusual experience.

00:53:22.000 Like you were saying about going back to Jersey and saying, what I'm going to do is my job.

00:53:28.000 I'm going to do comedy, and I do the comedy to get the money, to pay for the food, to feed my family, to take care of my life, and I love doing it, and I can bring joy to people.

00:53:37.000 If I'm honest about myself, I always had the ingredients for obsessive behaviour.

00:53:43.000 The more I look at it, I was trying to resolve something.

00:53:47.000 I thought, if I get there, then I'll be worth something.

00:53:50.000 I can get that thing.

00:53:52.000 But when I got there, I thought, hold on, this isn't even real.

00:53:56.000 It doesn't feel right to me.

00:53:58.000 It doesn't feel right.

00:53:59.000 And that's not like...

00:54:00.000 There are people, I think, very high-profile, high-level people that are making big contributions.

00:54:06.000 Can you sweep away all of mainstream culture?

00:54:09.000 Can you say the sole function of pop culture is to keep people bewildered and distracted and intoxicated while a political elite in conjunction with the corporate powers saps the energy of the great and powerful people of this planet?

00:54:24.000 Yes, you can.

00:54:26.000 You can.

00:54:27.000 But do you think that that's a conscious decision by the cultural elite or is that a conscious decision by the people to avoid reality itself and be distracted by goofy television shows and music?

00:54:36.000 It must be complicit, Joe.

00:54:38.000 It must be complicit.

00:54:39.000 100%.

00:54:39.000 It must be both components.

00:54:41.000 It must be both.

00:54:42.000 But like you said, implied or said even earlier, we are still evolving.

00:54:48.000 Evolution is still happening.

00:54:50.000 It's not over, is it?

00:54:51.000 No.

00:54:52.000 So what I feel like is...

00:54:57.000 What information can we impart?

00:54:58.000 How can we...

00:54:59.000 This is an extremely successful, as I said before, cultural artefact.

00:55:03.000 You can just keep pumping alternative ideas into people's heads.

00:55:07.000 If people start to hear again and again, you're being lied to about civilisation.

00:55:11.000 It's much older.

00:55:12.000 You're being lied to about the nature of consciousness.

00:55:13.000 You're being lied to about your options.

00:55:15.000 On a very simple level, I've had, as I'm sure I've gathered, quite a lot of therapy over the course of my life as a result of the substance misuse addictions and then just out of ongoing bloody curiosity...

00:55:25.000 And they say the function of therapy is to increase your choices in life.

00:55:30.000 Because none of us lives in reality.

00:55:31.000 Anyone who's bloody done DMT will know we don't live in reality.

00:55:34.000 We live in a narrow, tiny bandwidth of reality.

00:55:38.000 So if you just live in a model of reality, not reality itself, then you should take responsibility for remodeling your reality, particularly if you're not bloody happy in it.

00:55:45.000 You can change it.

00:55:46.000 You can change your consciousness.

00:55:48.000 And for me, at the moment, that means quite mundane things. 0.97

00:55:50.000 It means that when I arrive here and my suitcases don't arrive, I have the choices of, do I now become a cunt and make people's lives fucking miserable, or do I just accept the cases are not here? 0.97

00:55:59.000 This is the reality. 0.97

00:56:01.000 Or when I arrive at the airport and I ain't got my green card and I nearly miss the flight, like all of these, I just go, oh, this is happening now. 0.99

00:56:08.000 The only choice I have in that moment is the choice of whether or not to start being a dick. 0.99

00:56:12.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:56:12.000 And I try not to now. 0.99

00:56:15.000 And in the past, I was like, fuck you. 1.00

00:56:16.000 I'm entitled to this feeling. 1.00

00:56:18.000 Well, it's so easy to just get absorbed in it.

00:56:20.000 My friend Tony V said this once, and I know I've repeated this on the podcast before, but my friend Tony V used to drive from...

00:56:26.000 You know Tony V, stand-up comedian?

00:56:27.000 I don't think so.

00:56:28.000 Boston guy, hilarious.

00:56:29.000 I know.

00:56:30.000 Hilarious guy.

00:56:30.000 He used to drive from New York to Boston all the time, like almost every day.

00:56:34.000 He was constantly driving. 1.00

00:56:35.000 It's a pain in the ass. 0.99

00:56:36.000 It's like two and a half hours up, two and a half hours back, whatever it is. 0.99

00:56:39.000 New York to Boston?

00:56:40.000 Yeah, what is it, three?

00:56:40.000 Five.

00:56:41.000 No.

00:56:41.000 That's a good four and a half.

00:56:42.000 You drive like a pussy? 1.00

00:56:43.000 Shut the mic off. 1.00

00:56:46.000 You had a lot of PBA cars yourself.

00:56:49.000 It's not that far. 0.99

00:56:51.000 It's four fucking hours. 0.99

00:56:52.000 What are you talking about? 1.00

00:56:53.000 I would say it's three at the most.

00:56:55.000 Anyway, he drove it all the time.

00:56:57.000 And he was talking about what he did was he just went in Zen.

00:57:01.000 And he said, this is what I'm doing now.

00:57:03.000 The way he dealt with it, he's like, now I'm driving.

00:57:05.000 There's no upset.

00:57:07.000 This is what I'm doing.

00:57:08.000 I'm doing this.

00:57:08.000 And if the cars are all stopped and we're all going five miles an hour, this is what we're doing.

00:57:12.000 Yes.

00:57:12.000 That's perfect.

00:57:13.000 That is literally Zen, isn't it?

00:57:15.000 Not to resist your reality.

00:57:17.000 And I don't think that means becoming some doormat that people can walk all over.

00:57:20.000 But when you are in a city, a traffic jam is the perfect example of a situation over which you have no control.

00:57:24.000 In this moment, you getting angry cannot influence or determine that situation in any way.

00:57:29.000 And then I think that once you've realized it on a mundane level, like a traffic jam, how far can you extrapolate that?

00:57:35.000 When someone goes, I'm in love with someone else, I'm leaving you.

00:57:38.000 Oh, okay.

00:57:39.000 I wanted to speak to that Eckhart Tolle.

00:57:40.000 Do you know that guy, Eckhart Tolle?

00:57:41.000 He wrote like...

00:57:42.000 Sure.

00:57:42.000 Now, he speaks like this.

00:57:44.000 He's a German person, and he's so relaxed, he can barely be bothered to talk to you. 1.00

00:57:51.000 And like, some mistake, some, again, glitch in the Matrix.

00:57:54.000 I managed to get his phone number right.

00:57:55.000 Oh, Jesus, you and him together.

00:57:57.000 Yeah.

00:57:59.000 Initially...

00:58:02.000 I'm going to have to ask you to stop calling me now.

00:58:06.000 I'm changing my number.

00:58:09.000 So I just got his number and it was meant to be for one interview. 0.99

00:58:11.000 But then I thought, fuck me, I've got access to this Buddhist guy. 1.00

00:58:13.000 I'm going to tap him up every time I have a fucking problem. 1.00

00:58:16.000 Right, my girlfriend, she's really pissing me off. 0.99

00:58:18.000 Eckhart, Eckhart, what do I do?

00:58:19.000 Hello, Eckhart!

00:58:20.000 You're lucky I started to bother him. 0.97

00:58:22.000 You're beyond hell.

00:58:25.000 Please, there is nothing that can be done for you.

00:58:27.000 It was fascinating to talk to him because I was having a hard time with a woman that I was seeing and I was like, what am I going to do?

00:58:33.000 And she's done this and she's done that.

00:58:34.000 And he goes, well, perhaps you will resolve this conflict and you will become married and you will have children and then both of you will die. 0.93

00:58:43.000 Because he knows that actually you're gonna die. 0.62

00:58:47.000 That's the end point, really.

00:58:49.000 So wherever you invest your energy, be fully well aware that at some point it is going to be relinquished.

00:58:56.000 Yeah, it might work out, or death, but definitely death.

00:59:00.000 How many hours does it take to get to Boston?

00:59:02.000 Three hours, 40 minutes or so.

00:59:04.000 So we're in the middle.

00:59:05.000 We're in the middle.

00:59:06.000 Depends where you leave from.

00:59:07.000 In the middle.

00:59:08.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:59:08.000 And if you don't drive like a pussy. 1.00

00:59:10.000 My mother and father would make me aware that we're going to be dead. 1.00

00:59:15.000 How do you mean?

00:59:15.000 And my mom would always say, I'm going to be dead one day, so you need to this, this, this.

00:59:20.000 And I would...

00:59:21.000 It would...

00:59:22.000 I couldn't handle that.

00:59:23.000 How old was you, mate?

00:59:24.000 I want to say I was five to seven, you know, five, six years old.

00:59:29.000 It's quite young to introduce Jimbo to the concept of mortality, five to seven.

00:59:33.000 I was still struggling with a goldfish concept.

00:59:36.000 Where's that goldfish gone?

00:59:37.000 Oh, don't worry, we're going to...

00:59:39.000 Isn't that a good idea to start those thoughts off early? 0.99

00:59:42.000 Let's accept this and get over these goddamn things. 0.99

00:59:44.000 Let's figure out what the fuck we're so terrified about that we have to create a land in the clouds that we're definitely all gonna go to and meet up after the fucking show. 0.99

00:59:51.000 But that put me in check of the whole thing. 0.99

00:59:53.000 I gotta say, it made me sob.

00:59:56.000 Just the thought of, where are we going?

00:59:58.000 Where are we going?

00:59:59.000 What happens?

01:00:00.000 Is it just blackness?

01:00:02.000 And my father, towards the end, he just literally went, eh, you know, that's it, you're dead, and that's it, show goes on.

01:00:12.000 And as simple as that, I'm like, oh my god, we forget about that.

01:00:16.000 That's bleak.

01:00:16.000 I'm not down with that one.

01:00:17.000 I mean, listen, the Cloud Kingdom...

01:00:19.000 But the thing is, Joe, you know before when we were talking about your DMT experiences and you said it would be like sort of a caveman with a crayon trying to draw God, right?

01:00:27.000 On dirt.

01:00:28.000 On dirt.

01:00:28.000 Not even on a canvas.

01:00:29.000 I remember very specifically you said it.

01:00:30.000 You can rewind the podcast.

01:00:31.000 You can listen to it again.

01:00:32.000 That's what Joe said, right?

01:00:33.000 With a stubby crayon, too.

01:00:34.000 Stubby...

01:00:35.000 I think you said your fingers were stubby.

01:00:36.000 I don't want to be overly meticulous in that particular...

01:00:39.000 Right, so like...

01:00:41.000 When people talk about the kingdom of heaven is within, or in the afterlife there'll be 72 virgins, me personally, I see these things as metaphors.

01:00:51.000 It will be as if you will be in such a blissful state when you are free of the shackles of the material realm, when you are liberated from your body.

01:00:59.000 I've spent...

01:00:59.000 I don't know if this is...

01:01:00.000 This is another thing that sort of makes me look good and maybe it makes me look savage.

01:01:03.000 I was doing one of my bits of altruism the other day, you know, like how I dole out bits of altruism.

01:01:08.000 I told you, I've already mentioned going to a homeless place.

01:01:10.000 I don't know if you're picking it up.

01:01:10.000 I'm a pretty nice guy.

01:01:12.000 I was at this other place that was like an adult learning difficulties place, right?

01:01:17.000 Right. 1.00

01:01:17.000 And for me, the term learning difficulties was polite because these people were like, you know, fucking seriously mentally ill. 1.00

01:01:26.000 I mean, they were beautiful human beings and everything. 0.99

01:01:29.000 But anyway, I had a really fantastic time there.

01:01:32.000 It made me feel incredibly grateful for my own life and all the things one would imagine that you'd feel in such a situation.

01:01:37.000 And I was chatting to the people, and one person was like, people were getting various certificates for various kind of achievements, whether it was in the art, doing some drawings, or whether it was doing some cooking or whatever.

01:01:47.000 And I started to feel this impulse of Sort of a bit of patronisingness of like, oh, you're getting that certificate, are you?

01:01:53.000 And then I thought, oh, in a minute, this ain't no fucking different from someone who's doing like a four-year MA in religion in global politics, really.

01:02:00.000 I mean, if you can imagine supreme consciousness, if you can imagine the realms experienced on DMT or the realms that are being described with people that have dedicated themselves to meditation or kundalini, have dedicated themselves to, you know, Terrence McKenna, get into them super states of consciousness accessible to individuals, and our birthright, some people say,

01:02:16.000 that our little achievements of, I've got myself a giraffe, for example, Or a new car or the things that I'm proud of today.

01:02:23.000 You know, like, we similarly are on this little pedestrian level.

01:02:27.000 You know, like, we're sweet little darling things, really, with our material achievements, with our accolades and our awards.

01:02:33.000 And it changed my perspective of it, of like...

01:02:36.000 Bloody hell, the difference between me and someone that's not in what you'd consider being the normal strata of the mental health field, it's not that bloody different. 0.96

01:02:46.000 Not in infinite space, not with Jupiter sucking in meteors, all that shit going on right now. 0.95

01:02:50.000 What's the difference between me and someone that life is confined to cooking projects? 0.96

01:02:55.000 It's not hugely significant, except I'm not that good at cooking.

01:02:59.000 In a way, they're better.

01:03:00.000 I would never have got that certificate.

01:03:01.000 Well, it might not be hugely significant in your perspective when you look at the infinite, but it's very significant in terms of the two of you relating to each other and trying to work this life out and trying to be sort of compatible, try to communicate, try to be friendly with each other and work out all the weird cultural differences between everybody and try to get to the essence of what it means to be a person.

01:03:21.000 And we're all going through some weird sort of struggle.

01:03:23.000 No one escapes the struggle.

01:03:25.000 Not even Johnny Depp.

01:03:26.000 Not even Johnny Depp.

01:03:27.000 Even Johnny Depp.

01:03:28.000 After everything.

01:03:29.000 I have a hard time believing Johnny Depp. 0.99

01:03:31.000 Johnny Depp got dragged into the golden triangle of pussy problems. 0.99

01:03:35.000 And he's in there right now. 0.99

01:03:37.000 Oh, really?

01:03:37.000 Oh, yeah.

01:03:38.000 You didn't hear?

01:03:38.000 Because he did the Rockstar...

01:03:40.000 Did this happen during the Rockstar tour?

01:03:41.000 Right now.

01:03:42.000 Didn't you hear this recently?

01:03:43.000 His girlfriend said he beat her. 1.00

01:03:45.000 And he's saying his girlfriend is fucking... 0.99

01:03:48.000 Doug Stanhope's getting sued because he wrote a whole article saying that he's really good friends with Johnny Depp. 0.99

01:03:52.000 And Doug Stanhope wrote a whole article about how the woman has been blackmailing Johnny and threatening him, and he brought it up before the whole thing came out in the news that she wanted... 0.99

01:04:01.000 She had certain demands if he didn't reach... 0.85

01:04:03.000 Who knows who's fucking right and who's wrong. 0.73

01:04:06.000 But at the end of the day, you know, whether Johnny's telling him the truth or not, but at the end of the day, even Johnny Depp can't escape. 1.00

01:04:12.000 The fucking pussy problems. 1.00

01:04:14.000 The reality of the world. 1.00

01:04:15.000 You know, he's touring.

01:04:17.000 I think for the first time in life, you would see him with images of rock stars that he loved, but now he's touring.

01:04:25.000 So he's doing music with them?

01:04:26.000 With Alice Cooper.

01:04:27.000 What?

01:04:27.000 Yes, he went on a rock tour.

01:04:29.000 Wow.

01:04:30.000 What?

01:04:30.000 I'm telling you.

01:04:31.000 Alice Cooper's selling hot dogs in Arizona.

01:04:33.000 Nah, dude, I'm telling you, look it up.

01:04:36.000 They got a name, they did a rock tour, and I went, huh, Johnny Depp, and they did a lot of cities, and maybe he's...

01:04:43.000 Wow.

01:04:43.000 That's the one thing he didn't get out of his system.

01:04:46.000 I don't even think that's it, man. 0.99

01:04:48.000 I just think Johnny Depp is just being Johnny Depp, just having a good goddamn time. 0.96

01:04:52.000 Maybe he's like this all the time. 0.98

01:04:53.000 What's it called?

01:04:54.000 The Hollywood Vampires.

01:04:55.000 Yeah, Hollywood Vampires.

01:04:57.000 Johnny Depp is the guitarist.

01:04:59.000 Wow.

01:04:59.000 Alice Cooper.

01:05:00.000 Pretty badass.

01:05:01.000 That's Johnny Depp over there on the far right with the goofy hat?

01:05:04.000 Or is it him on the far left?

01:05:05.000 That's him on the far left with the goofy hat.

01:05:07.000 Wow.

01:05:08.000 Good for him. 0.99

01:05:08.000 Johnny Depp's living a goddamn exemplary life. 0.99

01:05:10.000 And I think that's Joe Perry on the right. 0.99

01:05:13.000 That is Alice motherfucking Cooper. 1.00

01:05:15.000 Look at that. 0.99

01:05:16.000 There they are.

01:05:18.000 School's out for summer! 1.00

01:05:22.000 He's been selling hot dogs in fucking Arizona. 0.99

01:05:24.000 He has some Cooper Dog or Alice's Dog's place. 0.99

01:05:28.000 He was a radio DJ in Phoenix, too.

01:05:31.000 He had a radio show.

01:05:32.000 He's addicted.

01:05:33.000 See, he goes to movies and he only sees the premieres.

01:05:38.000 And then he goes on the street and people are like...

01:05:40.000 This is the first time he's in front of hundreds of...

01:05:43.000 There's a big difference between... 1.00

01:05:48.000 Holy shit! 1.00

01:05:50.000 So you're trying to say that him doing these shows... 1.00

01:05:53.000 This brought him to a high...

01:05:55.000 He probably didn't know.

01:05:56.000 He's probably having a ball, but...

01:05:58.000 I'm not saying that was happening, but...

01:05:59.000 Maybe.

01:06:00.000 Could be.

01:06:00.000 That simple.

01:06:01.000 He...

01:06:02.000 That's a big high, boy.

01:06:04.000 I just stood on the stage and watched 100,000 people go nuts.

01:06:07.000 I was like, I wanna do this.

01:06:10.000 It's also the only time that you're allowed to dress like that.

01:06:13.000 You can't dress like that in real life.

01:06:15.000 You have to go on stage to dress up like that.

01:06:16.000 Go to some of those photos. 1.00

01:06:18.000 If you come over my house with fucking leather pants on and a shirt like that, I'll fucking choke you. 1.00

01:06:22.000 Right. 1.00

01:06:22.000 You can't come to my house like that. 1.00

01:06:23.000 What are you doing, man?

01:06:26.000 Why are you wearing makeup?

01:06:28.000 Why are you dressing like you just came over on a boat from Spain?

01:06:32.000 There's some sartorial risks being taken without a Hollywood vampire on the backdrop.

01:06:37.000 He's got lace!

01:06:38.000 He's got lace around his wrists!

01:06:39.000 Come on, man.

01:06:41.000 But you can pull that off if you're in a band.

01:06:43.000 Johnny Depp!

01:06:44.000 But he always dresses like that.

01:06:45.000 It's like he's wearing his regular clothes.

01:06:47.000 Like, for Johnny Depp, he's wearing his regular clothes.

01:06:49.000 But he does have his sleeves rolled up, and...

01:06:52.000 See what I mean?

01:06:53.000 It's an effectation, for sure.

01:06:54.000 He's definitely working on that image.

01:06:56.000 Do you think he must his hair up on purpose?

01:06:58.000 Like, not musty enough.

01:06:59.000 Come on, man.

01:07:00.000 He's gonna must it up a little more. 1.00

01:07:01.000 Spray a little shit in there, stick it up. 0.99

01:07:03.000 Hey, listen. 1.00

01:07:05.000 More power to him.

01:07:06.000 I want to do that, too.

01:07:07.000 Why not, man?

01:07:08.000 Just so I can go to Germany?

01:07:09.000 Just, like, we're getting paid.

01:07:10.000 I think you can just go to Germany.

01:07:12.000 You can probably just go to Germany.

01:07:12.000 I could just do that, too.

01:07:14.000 There is no restriction at the stage on entering Germany, Jimbo.

01:07:18.000 You're free to go.

01:07:19.000 Okay.

01:07:19.000 Get tired in lace if you choose.

01:07:21.000 But I want it dressed like that.

01:07:22.000 You can do that.

01:07:23.000 We're looking at, in his situation, whether he's navigating it successfully or not, he's definitely in a strange path of the river. 0.94

01:07:31.000 He's in a strange, deep, wide channel with incredible rapids, and he's riding on a fucking inner tube down this stretch of river that nobody gets to ride. 0.60

01:07:40.000 The Johnny Depp stretch is like the Tom Cruise stretch or the Samuel Jackson stretch. 0.96

01:07:45.000 Like, whoa! 1.00

01:07:46.000 These motherfuckers can't go anywhere. 1.00

01:07:48.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:07:49.000 Stan Hope told me he hangs around with Johnny Depp and they can't go anywhere.

01:07:52.000 They have dudes with earpieces everywhere.

01:07:54.000 There's people constantly circling him, making sure he's okay.

01:07:57.000 And he'll go into a restaurant.

01:07:59.000 There's people that are guarding the doors.

01:08:01.000 They're making sure people don't go in the room.

01:08:03.000 It's very, very different than even regular fame.

01:08:07.000 He's in that Pirates of the Caribbean fame where it's just, can't go anywhere.

01:08:11.000 That's an expensive product, bro.

01:08:14.000 I need to protect that product.

01:08:16.000 Well, it's also, he's super vulnerable. 0.99

01:08:18.000 Like, people lose their fucking minds when they're around a certain level of celebrity. 0.99

01:08:22.000 Like, does a Tom Cruise... 1.00

01:08:23.000 Like, Tom Cruise can't go to the movies.

01:08:24.000 Right.

01:08:25.000 He's gotta...

01:08:25.000 Right, he's gotta block out the streets.

01:08:27.000 If he went to the movies, he would leave the movie theater and people would be trying to grab him as he was walking out of the theater just to touch him and take pictures with him.

01:08:33.000 It's not like you can't just interact with people.

01:08:36.000 I had done a film with Tom Cruise.

01:08:38.000 It's an intense experience.

01:08:39.000 What was that like?

01:08:40.000 What'd you do?

01:08:41.000 It was a film called Rock of Ages and it had Tom Cruise in it and Alec Baldwin.

01:08:47.000 Lots of really, really famous people were in it.

01:08:49.000 And a monkey.

01:08:52.000 The monkey, when I read it, there was no monkey in it.

01:08:55.000 And at some point Tom Cruise said, there's going to be a monkey in this film. 0.99

01:08:58.000 And from that point, there was a fucking monkey in the film. 0.98

01:09:01.000 Even Marseille, the monkey was in scenes that Tom Cruise weren't in. 1.00

01:09:04.000 One with me, and the monkey was an arsehole. 0.98

01:09:06.000 It was a baboon. 0.99

01:09:06.000 It's wearing a nappy that was tied on with electric tape. 0.99

01:09:09.000 It was very aggressive.

01:09:10.000 It jumped off of the shoulder of the guy that was meant to be looking after the monkey. 0.99

01:09:14.000 The monkey had a trailer with five other monkeys in it that it could fuck in its time off. 1.00

01:09:18.000 I was saying, who's doing the monkey's fucking contract? 1.00

01:09:21.000 LAUGHTER If you watch that film, you can see there's a scene I'm in with the monkey. 0.99

01:09:25.000 I ain't even doing no acting at all.

01:09:26.000 All I'm doing is it's just a man nervously looking at a monkey.

01:09:30.000 So I'm thinking that thing could get down off that shoulder at any point now. 1.00

01:09:33.000 And fuck you up. 0.99

01:09:34.000 Yeah, it could fuck you up. 1.00

01:09:35.000 Tom Cruise, he's like a travelling king. 0.94

01:09:38.000 He's got many, many trailers.

01:09:40.000 But he's so...

01:09:42.000 You know, you arrive in a situation and you think, right, here are my prejudices about Tom Cruise, all the things I've read, all the things I've heard.

01:09:48.000 Go Prejudice.

01:09:49.000 But, like, we meet him, he blasted me with such affability and charm that they melted away, like ice cones, the pure heat of the man's sweetness.

01:09:59.000 Like, on the sort of, like, it was my birthday during that film, I've got a big basket full of, like, you know, yoga-related things and stuff like that, these sort of thoughtful presents.

01:10:07.000 You remember, you know, he shakes your hand, remembers your name, sort of remembers details about you.

01:10:11.000 He's like, if you mention your auntie or something in the conversation, the next conversation, he'll mention that auntie. 0.99

01:10:16.000 I went round his house for dinner, I was really, really late, because of that fucking monkey, actually. 0.98

01:10:19.000 It was playing up, like he was not working that day. 0.98

01:10:22.000 I went round his house, when he was married to Katie Holmes, and there was that little famous Tom Cruise, Suri Cruise was there and all, all lined up.

01:10:29.000 I went there, I was very, very late, and they'd all eaten.

01:10:33.000 And they goes, oh, well, do you want to still eat?

01:10:35.000 I went, yeah, yeah, and I will eat. 0.98

01:10:36.000 And I had to, like I'm sat with you now, Joe, opposite Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes and the little darling one, I was fucking eating spaghetti. 0.95

01:10:45.000 And that's a complicated thing to eat in front of Tom Cruise as well. 0.97

01:10:49.000 It's long, isn't it? 1.00

01:10:50.000 And I was trying to meet that lady in the tramp, shoving that shit in. 1.00

01:10:53.000 And then the next course, I think, was lasagna, which was weird, because that's two pasta courses. 0.99

01:10:56.000 Then I think there was cupcakes and stuff involved.

01:10:59.000 All the way through it, just sat opposite Tom Cruise talking about communism, which I brought up as a topic, which in retrospect was a mistake.

01:11:06.000 Why?

01:11:06.000 Well, because don't bring up Communism.

01:11:08.000 Because, like, what I said was, I goes, well, look, I'm down with fairness, right?

01:11:12.000 I goes, you know, communism, yeah, surely it went a bit, it got a bit out of control.

01:11:15.000 No one's arguing with that.

01:11:16.000 It went a bit hectic.

01:11:17.000 I'm not down with massacres or genocides under any flag.

01:11:21.000 I was going, but fairness and justice, I'm fully up for.

01:11:25.000 And Tom Cruise goes, oh, I don't know about that, the communism.

01:11:28.000 I goes, yeah, but Tom, you were born with this thing.

01:11:31.000 You've been born with this thing.

01:11:32.000 I goes, that's like being born an aristocrat.

01:11:34.000 The thing that you've got, that drive or whatever, people aren't like you. 0.98

01:11:39.000 I tried to explain it to Tom, but it was hard for him to take me seriously because I had spaghetti down my shirt and all that kind of shit.

01:11:46.000 But I had a good go of saying it's probably different to be Tom Cruise than other people. 0.96

01:11:51.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:11:52.000 But what was he saying?

01:11:53.000 That communism is a bad idea and you were saying that maybe sharing more would be a good idea.

01:11:59.000 Isn't it weird that communism is connected to dictatorships, which is kind of the opposite of communism?

01:12:04.000 It really is. 0.92

01:12:04.000 I think anything, as soon as people start to implement ideas, it gets into fucking trouble, doesn't it? 0.92

01:12:11.000 Power! 0.89

01:12:11.000 Yeah, the power, of course, mate. 0.89

01:12:13.000 Because all of these political ideas and religious ideas, it's supposed to just be, we're here, we're going to die, should we try and make it as nice as possible?

01:12:19.000 And part of that's going to be not being out of order to each other.

01:12:23.000 But all of them interface with our problems, the problems we've described, those biological and mechanical drives.

01:12:28.000 So I'm trying to...

01:12:29.000 All I've said is, like, the communism...

01:12:32.000 There's a socialism and communism that's different from the depiction of communism that a lot of Americans and English people would have because we were on the other side of the Cold War.

01:12:44.000 So we got a very, very negative impact.

01:12:46.000 And, of course, that was... 0.94

01:12:47.000 A version of communism that's pretty fucking brutal in places, as is capitalism, you know? 0.91

01:12:51.000 So I'm sort of like trying to kick around these... 0.80

01:12:52.000 I'm saying like, yeah, but really, all communism is a sort of a version of Christianity in that it's saying we are all brothers here and all of us have rights and we should be trying to build a society where we love each other.

01:13:03.000 That's sort of what he's saying.

01:13:04.000 You know, where it goes wrong is it doesn't allow room for individualism and the myriad distinctions between different human beings.

01:13:11.000 But I wasn't concentrating on that bit.

01:13:12.000 But that's not really communism, though.

01:13:13.000 That's really more of dictatorships.

01:13:16.000 That was dictatorships, yeah.

01:13:17.000 You can dress it up how you want.

01:13:19.000 I'm not a scholar in communism, although I am going to do a degree in religion and global politics.

01:13:24.000 And for me, I'm going to spend the next three years doing it part-time.

01:13:27.000 You don't have to pop in a day a week.

01:13:29.000 Actually, I've not done it yet.

01:13:30.000 I've got to go for the interview next week.

01:13:31.000 I'm hoping they're going to let me in just on the basis of, come on, let me in. 0.98

01:13:34.000 I've been on the fucking telly. 0.98

01:13:36.000 Give us a break. 0.99

01:13:37.000 Anyway, but my point I was trying to make is...

01:13:41.000 Look, things get convoluted and complicated by, you know, bureaucracy, ideology, and demagoguery, but ultimately, we're just meant to be sharing.

01:13:51.000 It's not a bloody complicated idea, really. 0.98

01:13:53.000 Yeah, the dictatorship aspect of it is almost like that same inescapable drive that causes someone to want to be the monkey with the five monkeys that it could fuck any time it wants. 0.97

01:14:03.000 There's always someone going, I'm going to be the monkey that's fucking fine. 0.99

01:14:06.000 Whether it's any sort of religious extremism, there's always some guy at the end of it going, I'm going to be fucking five monkeys in my trailer. 0.98

01:14:14.000 And that person's ruining it for the rest of us. 0.85

01:14:16.000 Because whenever you see a religious cult, I've started a religious cult, we all live here together and we grow our own vegetables, everything's organic.

01:14:24.000 Yeah, alright, that's lovely, mate. 0.99

01:14:25.000 Are you fucking everyone? 0.99

01:14:27.000 Oh, look, I don't get into that. 1.00

01:14:28.000 A little bit, yeah.

01:14:30.000 A little bit.

01:14:30.000 I've got a monkey trailer that I'm spunking up in.

01:14:33.000 Everybody else's wives. 0.97

01:14:35.000 Yeah, that's one of those weird, inescapable things about being a person.

01:14:39.000 About these drives that you have to figure out how to hold them together.

01:14:43.000 I think communism would work.

01:14:45.000 Look, if this was a community, if we were the only four people on an island, just us four, we would be communists.

01:14:51.000 We would all just get together and we would talk, like, how do you guys want to handle this?

01:14:54.000 Like, what do we do?

01:14:55.000 How do we gather fish?

01:14:56.000 I like this.

01:14:56.000 And what are you capable of pulling off?

01:14:58.000 Yeah, hey, I'm pretty good at climbing trees.

01:15:00.000 I know where the coconuts are.

01:15:01.000 Okay, cool.

01:15:02.000 And we'd figure it out and we'd share it all together.

01:15:04.000 Do you need any poems?

01:15:04.000 Because I could probably provide those.

01:15:07.000 We would all share, right?

01:15:08.000 And if we didn't, we'd have to have a conversation. 0.99

01:15:10.000 We'd have to say, hey, Joe, you're not fucking digging enough holes or you don't catch enough fish. 0.96

01:15:14.000 We've got to work this out together so we all contribute an equal amount. 0.98

01:15:18.000 You can't be lazy and exist off the fruits of your brothers and sisters' labor.

01:15:21.000 That's really good, isn't it?

01:15:22.000 We have to all contribute.

01:15:23.000 What's the difference between that and being tribal?

01:15:25.000 It's the same thing, no?

01:15:26.000 That tribal thing as well.

01:15:27.000 Now, have you heard this thing?

01:15:28.000 That in chimpanzee societies, they have about 75 chimps, right?

01:15:33.000 And once it gets to about 80 or 90, things get edgy. 0.96

01:15:36.000 And they normally break off and go, fucking hell, we better have Another little breakaway chimp community, because this is getting too heavy over here. 1.00

01:15:43.000 And so the assumption is that we, as great apes ourselves, similarly should be living in manageable communities. 0.99

01:15:50.000 We're so overstimulating.

01:15:52.000 When we're joking about the power of women and femininity, you're not meant to be exposed to that kind of stuff. 0.59

01:16:00.000 You're not meant to be exposed to that kind of imagery that is present in pornography.

01:16:04.000 You're not meant to be exposed to that kind of variety.

01:16:06.000 We're meant to be like there's 50 or 60 of us.

01:16:09.000 All right, these people are good warriors.

01:16:10.000 These people are good fishermen.

01:16:11.000 These people are good at...

01:16:13.000 You know what I mean?

01:16:13.000 You just find mysticism.

01:16:15.000 You find little roles in it.

01:16:17.000 But again, since we've lived in this monoculture where people are like little cells, batteries, all sort of stacked up together in cities and suburbs, then how do you access that?

01:16:25.000 We're not having an authentic human experience.

01:16:27.000 So that's why there's so much...

01:16:29.000 What do I want to say?

01:16:30.000 Disease.

01:16:30.000 Well, it's an authentic human experience, but it's a very new one.

01:16:33.000 It's a very different thing.

01:16:34.000 And I've tried to figure out what it is we're actually doing, but it seems to me that everything is getting more and more connected, right?

01:16:40.000 So what we're doing in these cities is we're connecting 20 million people into this mass of buildings.

01:16:45.000 And then we're connecting them all with the internet.

01:16:47.000 And we're connecting those 20 million people with the 10 million people in this state and 5 million people in that state, and we're all becoming one sort of weird, gigantic group that's very, very dissimilar from the original tribal groups that allowed one alpha male To run things,

01:17:03.000 one alpha female community, everybody knowing and understanding each other. 0.79

01:17:07.000 And when you talk to archaeologists, have you ever read Sex at Dawn, Dr. Chris Ryan?

01:17:12.000 Really interesting book.

01:17:13.000 But what he maintains is that this idea even of monogamy that didn't exist in these tribal cultures, they shared sexuality.

01:17:21.000 Everybody swapped around, and people banged everybody.

01:17:24.000 And that's one of the reasons why they stayed intimate, is that they all probably were polyamorous.

01:17:30.000 They were polyamorous!

01:17:31.000 I knew it!

01:17:32.000 And they didn't understand.

01:17:33.000 Well, it speaks to our nature because we don't want to be monogamous.

01:17:37.000 It's a struggle.

01:17:38.000 But the polyamorous thing also speaks to this idea that before we understood genetics and we understood DNA, we didn't know whose children they were. 0.99

01:17:46.000 So if you had a child, if a woman had a child and I fucked her and you fucked her and you fucked her, we all would assume it's our kid. 0.99

01:17:52.000 No one knows. 1.00

01:17:53.000 They didn't understand it.

01:17:54.000 They didn't know.

01:17:55.000 There will be certain clues along the way, Joe.

01:17:58.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:17:59.000 People get it.

01:18:00.000 They figured it out after a while.

01:18:01.000 That kid's straggling a lot of people.

01:18:05.000 Well that's a weird thing too, is how children maintain some sort of talent traits that their parents have.

01:18:11.000 Like there's things that get passed on through children, through DNA. Obsessive behaviors, like desire to grow and learn, people like have kids that are very similar in personality, that seem to be like inherent to the child, that seems to come through the DNA. Yeah,

01:18:28.000 but wouldn't that be a little bit too of the kid that's all he knows growing up, and if he's watching a parent that's obsessive, he's either going to go, I am not being that, or I'm that.

01:18:39.000 Sure, it's possible.

01:18:41.000 It's totally possible, but there's also a pattern that they follow.

01:18:45.000 My middle daughter is obsessed with things.

01:18:48.000 She gets obsessed with things.

01:18:49.000 She's read six Harry Potter books.

01:18:50.000 She's eight.

01:18:51.000 She just keeps reading them.

01:18:52.000 She'll read hours and hours every night, and then all she wants to talk about is Harry Potter. 0.59

01:18:55.000 She's all fucking totally Harry Potter'd out, like, all day long. 1.00

01:18:58.000 She'll explain something to me. 0.93

01:18:59.000 I'm like, is that a Harry Potter thing?

01:19:00.000 She's like, yes, it is.

01:19:01.000 And then she'll... 1.00

01:19:02.000 She's just obsessed with Harry Potter, or gymnastics, or whatever the fuck it is. 0.98

01:19:06.000 She's very much like me, like, where she gets something. 0.99

01:19:09.000 She's just doing cartwheels in the living room all day long, and fucking back handsprings. 1.00

01:19:12.000 She never stops. 0.99

01:19:13.000 She's just obsessed, and she gets on these things and just rides them out. 0.68

01:19:17.000 And she doesn't even necessarily know that that's how I am.

01:19:20.000 I don't think she sees that, because I'm not like that when I'm around her, really.

01:19:25.000 So you're observing her, and it's the same as saying, oh, wow, she's got my eyes.

01:19:28.000 You can see that she is exhibiting traits that she's not being taught.

01:19:33.000 They're very extreme.

01:19:34.000 It's very extreme.

01:19:35.000 It's not like, oh, it's similar. 1.00

01:19:37.000 Because my youngest daughter is just silly. 1.00

01:19:40.000 She's not like that at all. 0.99

01:19:41.000 She's not obsessive at all.

01:19:43.000 She's just a fun little kid. 0.99

01:19:44.000 But the middle one is kind of fucking crazy. 0.99

01:19:47.000 How does that... 0.96

01:19:49.000 Does that make you feel like you've got a different type of connection with that kid?

01:19:52.000 No, no, no, no.

01:19:54.000 No, no.

01:19:54.000 There's the connection with all of them.

01:19:56.000 That's the interesting thing about having children.

01:19:58.000 The connection with all of them is just so spectacular.

01:20:01.000 It's not like, I connect with this one more than that one.

01:20:04.000 I connect with all of them.

01:20:05.000 But it's interesting to observe your own bizarre personality traits manifesting themselves almost in a genetic level when a kid.

01:20:14.000 Yeah.

01:20:16.000 My middle one's like that.

01:20:18.000 My middle one is identical to me.

01:20:20.000 Sometimes I like it, sometimes I love it, and sometimes I go, oh, I like that.

01:20:24.000 How old is she? 0.98

01:20:26.000 She's 14, so she's really blaspheming.

01:20:29.000 But you know what?

01:20:29.000 The one that does all the gymnastics and all that, I noticed too with kids, they express happiness in different ways.

01:20:37.000 My oldest one, the only time I know she's truly happy, and she's 17 now, is when she's bouncing, singing...

01:20:43.000 Doing a cartwheel outside.

01:20:45.000 She's got an instrument.

01:20:46.000 When she's silent, I go, oh man, something's up.

01:20:50.000 This kid's been silent for two months.

01:20:51.000 Her dad's so expressive.

01:20:53.000 You think about it.

01:20:55.000 Who's more expressive than you?

01:20:57.000 You're this joyful guy who's always got this crazy laugh.

01:21:01.000 By now, at 14, she's super aware that you play these places all over the world.

01:21:07.000 People come to see you and laugh.

01:21:08.000 I mean, that's got to be bizarre, too.

01:21:10.000 What does your dad do for a living?

01:21:11.000 Oh, I fix his pipes.

01:21:12.000 What about your dad? 1.00

01:21:13.000 He just talks shit in front of people and they laugh their dick off. 1.00

01:21:15.000 You know, it's a very bizarre thing for a kid to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, you could do that, too? 1.00

01:21:20.000 Right.

01:21:20.000 And they see that.

01:21:22.000 And also, I'm sure you're not restrictive in how they express themselves.

01:21:26.000 You probably want them to have fun and do cartwheels and laugh and joke around a lot.

01:21:30.000 Yeah, I mean, so that gets encouraged.

01:21:32.000 And then I think happiness, like self-reflection and all these other things, these are muscles.

01:21:38.000 And you can work on those muscles.

01:21:40.000 You can develop them.

01:21:42.000 I think you're absolutely right about that.

01:21:44.000 The image that I've been using is like of circuits, like how it must be neurologically.

01:21:49.000 Of course, I'm speculating about neurology, which is probably not something that someone who knows nothing about neurology should do.

01:21:54.000 Lucky none of us do either, so we'll just follow you on this.

01:21:59.000 You know, if you're continually activating certain neurological pathways or creating synaptic relationships, then that's going to fire up more regularly.

01:22:07.000 I mean, I notice it with some of these new things I'm doing.

01:22:09.000 Like, initially, when people were explaining stuff about getting out of half-guard and how even to shuffle on the floor, you know, that shrimpy stuff, I was like, I ain't ever going to be able to do this.

01:22:19.000 Because soon it seems like it's making its way behaviourally into a different aspect of my consciousness.

01:22:26.000 And I suppose when you talk about happiness or misery or addiction, if you're continually living in that circuit, people talk about programming.

01:22:34.000 I feel like when I'm aware of my programming, there's certain things that if people say them to me, I can't help the reaction I have.

01:22:41.000 Obvious ones, if I'm exposed to certain sexual images, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

01:22:45.000 I feel all those feelings before I make any decisions.

01:22:48.000 If someone makes me feel insecure or says something, I have to really watch that moment, because otherwise, before I know it, I've gone down a path of behaviour.

01:22:55.000 And I think that perhaps what we can do on an individual level is learn, and this is hard for people who are living in total fucking crisis and dreadful poverty, and like you said before, I personally am in a privileged position where I can begin to bring my consciousness to those kind of things, of like, right,

01:23:10.000 I want to live on that circuit now.

01:23:12.000 I don't want to always have...

01:23:14.000 I don't always want to feel fearful in these moments.

01:23:17.000 I want to learn to plough that neurological pathway so that it's easier for me to stay there.

01:23:23.000 Programming is necessary and if you're not living on a program that you've taken control of individually, you're living on someone else's program, you're living on that program that's out there, that constant bombardment of negativity and fear and anxiety and division and you're different from people and you're not good enough and by this otherwise you're not going to be good enough.

01:23:42.000 You're going to need pretty strong defences, I think.

01:23:45.000 With the diminished role of religion in our life, with the diminished role of political ideologies that we can trust, what are people supposed to do about being alive and not feeling good?

01:23:56.000 Who do you go to now?

01:23:58.000 I think you're doing it.

01:23:59.000 I think you're a part of it.

01:24:00.000 I think there's a lot of other people that are doing it, too.

01:24:02.000 It's like you're trying to re-examine the patterns that you're stuck in.

01:24:05.000 And how many of these patterns that you or I or Jim or anybody here created for themselves?

01:24:10.000 Yes.

01:24:10.000 You've created a lot of your own prison bars.

01:24:12.000 And that's a really common thing with people.

01:24:15.000 You know, whatever defenses that you've...

01:24:18.000 Put up whatever patterns that you've instinctively followed because of jealousy or fear or inadequacy or any weird feelings.

01:24:25.000 You've set these neurological patterns and they're very difficult to break once you've set them yourself.

01:24:29.000 It's almost like you've built your own prison and now you're complaining about it.

01:24:33.000 Yes, I agree with this.

01:24:35.000 Now, do you think we could introduce to that a kind of a compassion?

01:24:39.000 Because, like, you know, earlier on we were talking about, like, we can understand people's sort of jealousy or irritation at, like, people being famous or rich.

01:24:44.000 Because, you know, there's no doubt.

01:24:46.000 There's too much inequality.

01:24:47.000 There's too much injustice.

01:24:49.000 It's not something that can really be questioned.

01:24:51.000 And, like, so what I'm trying to do is bring bloody compassion and tolerance to places where I find it hard.

01:24:57.000 Today, someone's...

01:24:58.000 Like, you know, I told you I didn't bring no clobber.

01:25:00.000 I left my suitcase. 1.00

01:25:01.000 I fucked up. 0.98

01:25:02.000 So I went in the shop, and this is a problem of great privilege, but I went along to a pretty cool shop in Los Angeles, and the security fella goes, oh, the shop ain't open yet. 0.99

01:25:12.000 Then he recognised me, and he goes, oh, no, no, no, the shop is open, right?

01:25:16.000 And I was like, oh, thank you, mate, and I felt all special for a moment.

01:25:19.000 Then we got to the doorway of the shop, and the guy that was inside the shop, he, I don't know, he's having a bad day or whatever, and he goes, oh, you know, maybe you can't come in, right? 0.99

01:25:26.000 And I immediately thought, you fucking... 0.98

01:25:27.000 The reaction I feel inside myself. 1.00

01:25:29.000 Like rage, actually.

01:25:31.000 And the security guy, to his eternal credit, overrode the guy in the show.

01:25:35.000 Just let him in.

01:25:36.000 Just let him in.

01:25:36.000 And then I got in the show and I felt better about myself.

01:25:40.000 But in that moment, I felt special.

01:25:42.000 I'm allowed in.

01:25:43.000 I had so many little things sort of triggered in me in that sort of short momentary interaction and feeling of like, oh great, the security guy recognises me.

01:25:51.000 Oh no, this guy don't let me in.

01:25:52.000 And it's very hard for me, actually, because I'm still in my mind judging that guy that didn't want to let me in a little bit.

01:25:57.000 I'm carrying I've got the perfect thing like a silver bullet.

01:26:14.000 And then you get there and he goes, hey man, I'm really sorry if I was rude earlier.

01:26:18.000 My girlfriend broke up with me.

01:26:20.000 Don't apologize yet because I thought of the perfect thing to destroy it.

01:26:22.000 And then you go, oh, this poor guy.

01:26:24.000 Perhaps if you would let me in!

01:26:26.000 This poor guy's working retail. 1.00

01:26:28.000 His girlfriend's fucking some football player. 1.00

01:26:31.000 Poor bastard. 1.00

01:26:32.000 Right. 1.00

01:26:33.000 Those are moments too where you're going to a club and you're so fucking rich. 0.96

01:26:38.000 I thought in my mad success, I'd reach to the point where I can walk to a place and say, you're not allowed in here. 0.99

01:26:44.000 And I turn around, I'm going, fucking, I'm going to buy this fucking place. 1.00

01:26:49.000 And then I'm going to fire you. 1.00

01:26:51.000 That's how fucking work. 1.00

01:26:53.000 That's what Tom Cruise does. 0.99

01:26:57.000 That's why he's so happy.

01:26:58.000 Just buy his place.

01:26:59.000 It's a lot of admin just to sack someone, isn't it?

01:27:02.000 You've got to go for all of them.

01:27:03.000 Right, okay, the surveyors are coming on Monday.

01:27:05.000 Mortgage, yeah.

01:27:06.000 Right, Jesus Christ.

01:27:08.000 Health and safety people coming to chat.

01:27:10.000 Right, and now could you bring in Dave?

01:27:12.000 We can't bring in Dave because he's at his chemotherapy session.

01:27:15.000 And they might have some weird laws of who you could fire and not fire.

01:27:17.000 You can't fire Dave.

01:27:19.000 He was here on a charter.

01:27:21.000 He's been running for union. 1.00

01:27:23.000 Imagine now you buy the building and this fuck has to keep working for you. 1.00

01:27:26.000 Oh my god. 1.00

01:27:26.000 Now you're stuck with him! 1.00

01:27:29.000 And then he sues you for discrimination or harassment or something.

01:27:33.000 I didn't know that Dave was missing a toe when I tried to sack him.

01:27:36.000 That was a mistake in retrospect.

01:27:38.000 So did anybody from the Tom Cruise camp try to convert you?

01:27:42.000 No one made even the remotest effort to convert me to science.

01:27:46.000 I couldn't have made it more clear that I was a man desperately in need of an ideology.

01:27:52.000 Oh, Tom, if only they were...

01:27:53.000 I guess I'd get so lonely, Tom.

01:27:55.000 If only they were something to believe in.

01:27:56.000 Some structure.

01:27:57.000 Some simple... 0.99

01:27:58.000 Look, just for fuck's sake! 0.99

01:28:00.000 Give me that dialectic book or whatever it's called. 0.98

01:28:02.000 Yeah, there should be a way, right?

01:28:04.000 There was no interest.

01:28:05.000 It's like, do you know what I felt?

01:28:06.000 I thought they felt that I would ruin Scientology, and they didn't want me in.

01:28:09.000 That's what I thought.

01:28:11.000 Yeah, that's what they did.

01:28:12.000 They didn't, but there was no invitation.

01:28:14.000 No one said, come on, mate.

01:28:16.000 You need a bit of L. Ron Hubbard in your life.

01:28:18.000 There was no interest.

01:28:20.000 There meant to be an expansionist religion.

01:28:21.000 No one brought it up at all.

01:28:23.000 And if ever there was a candidate for a religion...

01:28:25.000 I think they tread very carefully on those waters.

01:28:28.000 You have to start asking questions yourself.

01:28:32.000 Or, there's certain levels perhaps, this is also possibly, where they don't necessarily really want anybody new to join. 0.98

01:28:38.000 That's what I fucking thought! 0.96

01:28:39.000 I thought I didn't qualify! 1.00

01:28:40.000 I'm going to that fucking celebrity centre, I'm gonna kick the bloody door in and say, oi, come on, take my money! 1.00

01:28:46.000 They've been burned. 1.00

01:28:48.000 Too many times.

01:28:49.000 They are very careful about who they allow in, who they don't allow in, I would imagine.

01:28:53.000 There's a lot of pillorying of science.

01:28:55.000 I'm always starting to feel sorry for him.

01:28:57.000 Really?

01:28:57.000 Well, like, poor sods.

01:28:59.000 They're just trying their artists to make up a religion.

01:29:01.000 I mean, I don't know, actually.

01:29:01.000 Did you see Going Clear?

01:29:02.000 Yeah, that was...

01:29:03.000 You'll stop feeling sorry for him when you watch Going Clear. 1.00

01:29:06.000 You're like, what in the fuck? 0.99

01:29:07.000 I like that guy, Paul Haggis, who went like, when they showed him that, right, this is the thing we actually believe. 0.99

01:29:13.000 Handwritten manuscripts.

01:29:13.000 He was like, he looked around for like, oh, come on, this is the test, right?

01:29:17.000 If you believe in this, they go, no, you fucking mug, that's not the real thing, you idiot, get out. 1.00

01:29:22.000 Well, he was a madman. 1.00

01:29:23.000 I mean, L. Ron Hubbard, whether or not he's correct about Scientology, wrote more fiction than any person that's ever lived. 0.95

01:29:30.000 Even if that was his only qualification, he was just making stuff up all day.

01:29:34.000 Constantly making stuff up, and then he wrote this, and no red flags?

01:29:38.000 Nothing.

01:29:38.000 No one goes, hey, maybe he made this up too.

01:29:41.000 No fucking chance. 1.00

01:29:42.000 On Monday, he's in Guinness World of Records for making shit up. 1.00

01:29:46.000 On Tuesday, he starts a religion, and no one goes, is this connected to Monday's activity in any way? 1.00

01:29:50.000 Not only that, just a chronic liar. 1.00

01:29:52.000 Just his whole life was just full of shit. 1.00

01:29:55.000 Also, I didn't like his rubbery, wet lips. 1.00

01:29:57.000 Like a sort of Ronald McDonald mouth. 1.00

01:30:00.000 Sort of wet, slobbery guy on those fucking cruise ships dressing people up. 0.99

01:30:06.000 I'm not a big fan of dudes with captain's outfits on either. 0.99

01:30:10.000 Unless you've served actual time.

01:30:12.000 Well, he did.

01:30:13.000 He was in the Navy.

01:30:14.000 And he did command ships, apparently, but he was apparently not very good at it.

01:30:18.000 He badly commanded ships.

01:30:19.000 He was removed from his duty.

01:30:20.000 But the point is, after he got out, decided, I'm still rocking this captain's outfit.

01:30:24.000 I'm not letting this go. 1.00

01:30:25.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:30:25.000 You're not a genuine captain. 1.00

01:30:27.000 They'll believe anything's higher.

01:30:29.000 Trust me. 1.00

01:30:30.000 I got a boat, bitch. 1.00

01:30:31.000 I'm gonna make some shit up and I'll have them for quite a while and make a good business of it. 1.00

01:30:36.000 Dare watch me. 0.96

01:30:37.000 Hi Skipper!

01:30:37.000 There he is.

01:30:38.000 Hi Skipper!

01:30:40.000 Madman.

01:30:40.000 Look at that!

01:30:41.000 Fascinating.

01:30:41.000 You see what I mean about the liquid around the mouth?

01:30:43.000 Anyway, but I suppose people that are Scientologists will say this is our religion and you're taking the piss out of our religion.

01:30:50.000 It's an ideology that is also a very positive one in the sense that it's dedicated towards self-improvement and eliminating all these psychological barriers that are holding you back.

01:31:01.000 And in that way, people find a lot of benefit in being a part of that religion.

01:31:05.000 And I think when they find a lot of benefit in being a part of it, then, you know, they can justify all the other nonsense and just sort of ignore it.

01:31:11.000 Because what L. Ron Hubbard, according to the Going Clear book, Lawrence Krauss book was trying to do was self-medicate.

01:31:19.000 He had a lot of psychological issues himself, and he was trying to cure his own issues.

01:31:24.000 And in using these methods to cure his own issues, he translated them into a religion.

01:31:32.000 This is a big part of what Scientology initially was, was his own attempts to self-diagnose and treat his own psychological ailments.

01:31:41.000 Quite a good idea, really, in the beginning, and sort of worked really well.

01:31:45.000 And there are, I suppose, people that it's working for.

01:31:49.000 A quote I heard that I liked was, be quick to see where religious people are right. 0.99

01:31:54.000 It's all really obvious where religious people are wrong, because we hear about it on the news. 0.99

01:31:59.000 But where religious people are right, togetherness, selflessness, It's a relationship with a deeper self, acceptance of death, and the possibility of transcendence of the, you know, human primal self. 1.00

01:32:10.000 Those things are all really beautiful ideas that have kind of lost their way in a science, you know, that term scientism, the idea that science has got into territories that science can't really handle, because we come to a judging full stop at certain points, you know, like, what happened on the Tuesday before the Big Bang,

01:32:26.000 you know?

01:32:27.000 Right.

01:32:28.000 Materialism...

01:32:30.000 Materialism and individualism are hard things to overcome. 0.99

01:32:35.000 If we have as our dominant mindset, I'm only going to believe shit that I can prove, then you are just an individual and you may as well just do it. 1.00

01:32:44.000 Why not just spend your life fucking as many people as you can and accumulate in as much material as you can because nothing exists unless you can see it, measure it, weigh it, contain it and fuck it. 0.99

01:32:54.000 If that is the dominant belief system, which... 1.00

01:32:57.000 Sort of materialism, consumerism, capitalism, I think all dovetail on that premise.

01:33:02.000 You know, this is all that's real.

01:33:04.000 That's how you can have the chronic ecological disrespect is because it doesn't matter what happens after you're dead. 1.00

01:33:12.000 Well, what about my fucking children? 1.00

01:33:15.000 Even just on a practical level, I've got to live on this fucking pebble in infinite space. 1.00

01:33:20.000 But if you're just like, well, we've not really thought about that. 0.97

01:33:23.000 You know, sort of an inability to accept, you know, like certain...

01:33:26.000 And I know that you're sort of like a...

01:33:28.000 I don't wholesale buy any dominant theory, but it's clear to me that...

01:33:34.000 Do you know what I believe in? 0.96

01:33:35.000 On an individual level and on a cultural level, if something is possible, you should be trying to fucking do it.

01:33:38.000 So as soon as people realise, hold on a minute, that's having a negative impact, or hey, this is a better way of using our resources and our utilities, as soon as you realise it, you should be moving towards it. 0.84

01:33:48.000 They say wisdom is acting on knowledge.

01:33:50.000 Once you've recognised, oh, fossil fuels are running out, it's like right... 1.00

01:33:53.000 Fucking hell, we better start working on the basis that we're fucked. 0.99

01:33:56.000 We better start looking at alternative energy sources. 1.00

01:33:58.000 We better look at different alliances.

01:34:02.000 Knowing those things and not doing them, it makes me very, very uneasy.

01:34:06.000 Because it makes me think, who benefits from ignoring this stuff?

01:34:10.000 Who's running this show?

01:34:11.000 If it's creating all this rage, all this unease, all this fear in your country and in my country now, times of great, great disease and uncertainty for people, really looking for something.

01:34:24.000 And these institutions are just saying, just, you know, carry on.

01:34:28.000 There's no sort of alternative.

01:34:31.000 No one now is going to see himself as part of a religious community in the same way or as one of the dead ideologies of the last century.

01:34:37.000 And meanwhile, we're in this sort of peculiar state of looming crisis that feels kind of fucking mad to me.

01:34:44.000 Well, we're definitely in a state of looming crisis, but to unpack this whole thing, you started off with this idea of what happened the Tuesday before the Big Bang and how science can't really answer that.

01:34:52.000 Well, they can't answer it yet.

01:34:54.000 The problem is, once they gather more data, it might be a hundred years from now or a thousand years from now, they can say, oh, well here, we've done the calculations and we understand now that it's an infinite cycle of birth and death and the universe is constantly expanding and contracting and this is the process that we're a part of.

01:35:10.000 It's infinite and it's never started and it's never ending.

01:35:13.000 It goes on and on and on.

01:35:14.000 I think you're probably bloody right, mate. 0.98

01:35:16.000 But that idea that you just espoused is in 5,000-year-old fucking documents called the Upanishads. 0.96

01:35:23.000 Those ideas are there already. 0.97

01:35:25.000 So when we fucked off religion 100 years ago because it was causing too much arseache, we kicked out of some of the ideas that are only now just being discovered.

01:35:35.000 Right, but those ideas are just to be contemplated right now and to be considered, whereas science is trying to find definitive evidence that they do or don't represent the reality of our timeline. 0.92

01:35:44.000 And once they do, then they'll be able to talk about it.

01:35:47.000 But right now, what they're doing is they're examining the evidence that the Big Bang exists and what could have possibly caused that.

01:35:53.000 Yeah, that...

01:35:53.000 See, what might...

01:35:56.000 What the difficulty is, is when any ideology behaves dogmatically and prohibitively, like prevents further exploration.

01:36:09.000 What's an example of that?

01:36:11.000 The nature of consciousness.

01:36:12.000 No one knows why consciousness impacts It doesn't matter in the way it does in the sub-quantum world. 0.99

01:36:18.000 We've come to a point where it's like, oh fuck! 0.96

01:36:21.000 The famous double-slit theory that an observed particle behaves differently. 0.98

01:36:27.000 A particle and wave can change its essential nature depending on whether or not it's Misrepresented, though, when it's been explained to me by people who actually understand it, what it really is is that we're measuring these particles, and in the act of measuring, you're changing the results because you're using something to measure it.

01:36:46.000 Yes.

01:36:47.000 But it gets represented as all this woo-woo craziness. 1.00

01:36:52.000 But what I think is interesting, Joe, is somewhere between this woo-woo craziness and the kind of a flat, mundane, look, this is life, you're born, you die, you eat food, shit comes out your arsehole territory. 0.98

01:37:05.000 Somewhere in there is a mystery that behind your eyes, behind Jimbo Jamie's eyes and my eyes, there is a constant, there is this consciousness, there is this awareness, there's this inexplicable experience that you've had on DMT, Right. 0.97

01:37:24.000 That suggests to me that consciousness itself is the dominant force.

01:37:28.000 Consciousness is not just one more phenomena, it is the seat of all phenomena.

01:37:32.000 And when people are saying, oh, there's this thing that's God, what they are saying is there is an absolute consciousness and all is contained within it.

01:37:39.000 All matter at some point has come from consciousness.

01:37:42.000 These realms that are experienced through psychedelic or extreme, you know, personal experiments like your cryogenic things or your flotation tanks all suggest a A phenomenon beyond individual consciousness.

01:37:54.000 There's something else there.

01:37:56.000 And the very fact that consciousness, even by the process of measuring, is influencing and impacting reality.

01:38:04.000 I'm not taking that to the extremes.

01:38:06.000 I know what you mean, mate. 1.00

01:38:07.000 Some people go, oh, that means your mind can control shit. 0.99

01:38:10.000 I don't think it means that. 0.99

01:38:11.000 It means that reality is only reality when you look at it.

01:38:15.000 That's what it's kind of getting towards.

01:38:17.000 A bloody good book that I reckon your listeners will be banging to is called Biocentrism by a man called Robert Lanza, who he did the best breakdown I've ever read of that double-slit experiment and made me understand for the first time that reality is happening within your own consciousness.

01:38:35.000 It's not an external phenomena at all.

01:38:37.000 He explained it in very ways that I could understand.

01:38:40.000 He went...

01:38:42.000 Think of something totally mundane, he went, like the experience of going into your kitchen in the night and turning the light on.

01:38:48.000 Is your kitchen fridge still there when you go back downstairs?

01:38:51.000 He goes, well, when you do go into your kitchen and turn the light on, parcels of photons come down, they interact with the optic nerve, they're inverted in your consciousness.

01:39:02.000 So whatever it is that's in your kitchen when you're not looking at it, it ain't the same as when you are looking at it.

01:39:07.000 It's an interpretive reality.

01:39:09.000 And one of the ways that I've sort of reduced this down from my own simple understanding is this, that if none of us had a sense of smell, if you didn't, I didn't, Jamie didn't, and then how would the concept of smell make sense?

01:39:20.000 How would you go, oh, there's paint, there's bacon?

01:39:21.000 None of us would have the instrument to receive it.

01:39:24.000 So that whole thing would be off the agenda.

01:39:26.000 So I think that there are...

01:39:28.000 Streams of energy, streams of data for which we do not have the instruments to receive, so we totally discount it because we simply don't have the instruments to receive it.

01:39:36.000 And I said once in my stand-up, as a matter of fact, my cat doesn't know there's an internet.

01:39:42.000 The internet does not enter the realm of my cat's consciousness. 0.86

01:39:46.000 We're out here having all these fucking experiences and like all those realms that we're experiencing in these various sort of psychedelic states or you know however they're achieved is an indication to me there's another reality. 0.96

01:39:56.000 Now where does that become fucking relevant to what we're talking about? 0.98

01:39:58.000 For me what it does is one of the continual ideas that keeps re-emerging to connect us back to where we were with Joe Campbell at the beginning is there is this fucking sense of oneness and believing ourselves to be individual and believing that the dominant thing in our lives to be material That fucks us up because people will kill each other over that material. 0.93

01:40:18.000 And once we sort of realise, no, the true thing about us is the consciousness, is the inner self.

01:40:24.000 That's the real thing.

01:40:24.000 Now, we're all out here.

01:40:25.000 We're all in the game. 1.00

01:40:26.000 We're all going to do shit and we're all going to make mistakes. 0.97

01:40:27.000 But let's not have the material idea as the dominant social idea. 0.99

01:40:32.000 Because everyone's agreed with that, whether they're communists or capitalists or fascists or whatever. 0.99

01:40:36.000 Everyone's saying, no, the main thing is this shit that's out here. 0.99

01:40:39.000 And it's like, that connects to those primal drives. 1.00

01:40:41.000 Because, you know, if that taps into your sexual drive, you can never have enough pussy. 0.99

01:40:44.000 If that gets into your status drive, you can never have enough status and power. 0.99

01:40:48.000 You know, so, like, we're all going to still feel those things. 0.99

01:40:50.000 I'm still going to be a cunt 25 times a day. 0.94

01:40:52.000 But it would be nice if the cultural ambience was, oh, don't worry, Russell, you'll be back to your normal self in a minute of feeling that we're all one and we're all connected. 0.98

01:41:01.000 Not...

01:41:02.000 Yeah, well, of course, I'd feel like that.

01:41:04.000 And that's what frightens me about the culture of our countries at the moment, is it's endorsing the worst aspects of our nature.

01:41:11.000 It's acculturating the worst aspects of our nature instead of the best aspects of our nature. 0.67

01:41:16.000 And for me, there's no fucking difference between left and right in the current political sphere, because they're all making the same argument.

01:41:21.000 They're all saying, come and live out here in the material world. 0.95

01:41:25.000 Yeah, it seems to me that the material world and this idea that we should be accumulating possessions and status and all these different things is universal.

01:41:34.000 It almost seems like it's a natural progression from ancient tribal civilization life to this weird city life to this integration of electronics in our life and this symbiotic relationship that we have to computers and the internet and information itself.

01:41:48.000 It seems like this is One of the things that drives that is this desire for material possessions.

01:41:53.000 Because when you have a desire for material possessions, it ensures that you're going to continue to innovate and come up with newer and greater and better.

01:42:00.000 Because you always want to keep up with the Joneses.

01:42:01.000 You always want to have the newest Tesla because it goes zero to 60 in two seconds. 0.98

01:42:05.000 And you want to have the coolest fucking house with the biggest TV and the fastest internet. 0.87

01:42:08.000 And all those things sort of compound this technological innovation cycle that we're on. 0.97

01:42:14.000 So my thought has been, for a long time, that what we are is some sort of an electronic caterpillar that's going to give birth to some artificial life.

01:42:22.000 And that all of our desire for material possessions and status and all these different things is really just us pushing forth this electronic agenda.

01:42:31.000 And that this innovation and the construction of artificial intelligence that's inevitable Hmm.

01:42:48.000 Hmm.

01:42:53.000 Flipping over cow patties looking for mushrooms, that we are a part of a process.

01:42:58.000 And then if you look at it objectively, all these traps that you or I or Tom Cruise or Jim Brewer have been caught up in, whether it's traps of ego or jealousy, all these things sort of ensure movement.

01:43:08.000 They ensure movement, they ensure interactivity, and that is going to ensure innovation and progress and competition.

01:43:15.000 And all those things that even when we look at it, we go, this is so pointless, this is so foolish, but yet it's so incredibly prevalent. 0.99

01:43:22.000 Not glorifying it or saying it's definitely the way to go, but objectively, if you weren't a human and you're stepping outside of this thing, looking at it from a distance, you're like, these fuckers are making something. 0.99

01:43:32.000 They might not even know they're making something, but they're making something. 0.98

01:43:35.000 That's interesting.

01:43:35.000 I understand the same way that bees or ants may not be...

01:43:38.000 We're aware of the hive consciousness and the common drive.

01:43:41.000 But where I disagree with you, Joe, is that you see the end point as being the materialisation of a super consciousness through technology.

01:43:50.000 I see the end point as being a realisation amongst us as a species.

01:43:56.000 It could be both. 0.91

01:43:58.000 There is no, you know, there is no reason to, you know, we are just another fucking, are we just another species on this planet? 0.99

01:44:04.000 Are we really know better than dogs and cows and monkeys? 0.98

01:44:06.000 I don't, you know, how can we possibly...

01:44:07.000 We most certainly are, if the very sun that heats us up has a lifespan.

01:44:12.000 Yeah, where are their inventions as well, the cats and the monkeys? 0.99

01:44:14.000 They've done fuck all of them. 0.99

01:44:16.000 They're cute. 1.00

01:44:16.000 They invented being cute. 1.00

01:44:17.000 I mean, they're real darlings.

01:44:18.000 They sit in your lap, you pet them, you like it. 0.99

01:44:21.000 They need to fucking contribute. 1.00

01:44:23.000 No, they're contributing. 1.00

01:44:24.000 Pick a dog for a walk, you come up with good ideas, you rub his belly, you feel good.

01:44:27.000 That's fair enough, I do love my dog Bear.

01:44:31.000 But, hold on, what was my point there?

01:44:35.000 Well, I think you want to pump the brakes.

01:44:37.000 What you're saying is we should pump the brakes. 0.91

01:44:39.000 We should pump the brakes of this possession and this idea that we're trying to accomplish these great things by accumulating things and status, and it's all bullshit, and it's really about consciousness more than anything. 0.94

01:45:01.000 Yeah. 0.88

01:45:15.000 They're trying to get us somewhere.

01:45:16.000 Technology is amazing. 0.97

01:45:18.000 The very fact that people bloody hear us, I don't understand anything, it's fucking wonderful. 0.55

01:45:22.000 But the dominant idea behind it, one of profit, that dominating idea. 0.92

01:45:29.000 Profit in itself is not necessarily negative, but profit at all costs, profit at any cost. 0.95

01:45:34.000 So, like, really, I'm not saying we should as a species fucking slow down and dress in felt and fucking, you know, like, grow around vegetables. 0.92

01:45:39.000 There's no fun in that. 0.97

01:45:40.000 I want human beings to be glorious.

01:45:41.000 But what I'm saying is that our bias towards this one particular materialistic idea is preventing us from realising that glory because part of our consciousness has been ignored.

01:45:50.000 Yes.

01:45:51.000 But you, from the time...

01:45:54.000 How can anyone say yes, but?

01:45:55.000 Yeah, no, no, no.

01:45:56.000 I think we all agree on that.

01:45:58.000 And I hate to dumb it. 0.99

01:46:01.000 I'm dumb. 0.98

01:46:01.000 So I dumb it down. 0.98

01:46:03.000 And I go back to Pink Floyd.

01:46:04.000 We don't need no education.

01:46:08.000 You don't have a chance.

01:46:11.000 Where your back is against the wall from the time you come out of the womb. 0.90

01:46:15.000 Because you're saturated with false images.

01:46:20.000 In our society...

01:46:23.000 God is money and success.

01:46:26.000 And there's no soul there.

01:46:28.000 And it takes people like you and I to go there and go, there's nothing. 0.98

01:46:32.000 It doesn't fucking matter. 0.97

01:46:33.000 Because it's so oversaturated. 0.99

01:46:35.000 That's why Kardashians are huge.

01:46:38.000 And this person's huge.

01:46:40.000 Because it's almost laughable.

01:46:42.000 Because the more you put it out there, the harder they attack. 0.97

01:46:46.000 Oh, hit them on their cell phones.

01:46:48.000 Well, here's phones.

01:46:49.000 The kids are going to be on it 24-7.

01:46:54.000 It's massive overload.

01:46:55.000 It's the more your brain goes this way, the more they go...

01:46:58.000 Yes, yes.

01:47:00.000 Well, we're not designed for this amount of information coming in, that's for sure.

01:47:03.000 No!

01:47:03.000 We're not designed to be connected with seven billion people all over the world.

01:47:07.000 We're not designed to seeing a camera placed on someone that doesn't have anything good to say.

01:47:11.000 Anything interesting to say at all, but they're constantly on camera, and they're editing it in the way that your short attention span is sort of connected to this thing, because every 15 seconds they're giving you a new camera angle, and that's by design.

01:47:22.000 It's like it interfaces, like, they figured out how to do these reality shows Where they edit the shows, like a music video, where you're constantly changing the angle, so you're constantly stimulated. 1.00

01:47:32.000 If you just had Kim Kardashian sitting across the fucking table from her mom, and they were just sitting there for like three hours talking like a podcast, you would want a fucking meteor to come from Jupiter and slam right into that goddamn house. 0.99

01:47:45.000 End this now! 1.00

01:47:47.000 Stop this before it spreads!

01:47:49.000 What are they doing?!

01:47:50.000 But if you keep them going back and forth, and then you cut to a single of them by themselves, bitching about my mom, as always, and then going back to her, well, she thinks that she can do this.

01:48:01.000 And then, look at my shoes.

01:48:02.000 Look at that watch.

01:48:04.000 Oh, premiere.

01:48:05.000 Cameras. 0.98

01:48:06.000 And constant changing of angles, and constant fucking introducing of a new thing to pay attention to. 0.99

01:48:12.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:48:13.000 Go ahead. 1.00

01:48:13.000 On a stupid small note, on a tiny, tiny note of how powerful and how far I went. 1.00

01:48:19.000 My oldest daughter, and I hate to admit it, she sat there and her lips, she came in the room and I told her 20 times, don't do that. 1.00

01:48:26.000 She saw something on the internet, sticking her lips in the bottle, and it blows her lips up. 1.00

01:48:32.000 And for three days, and everyone's doing it.

01:48:35.000 And it wasn't that I was mad at her.

01:48:36.000 I went, wow.

01:48:38.000 This is how many...

01:48:39.000 My kids part of that banana land is just...

01:48:42.000 It's almost like they're laughing at us now.

01:48:44.000 Watch what I can make them do now.

01:48:48.000 But no one's pulling those strings.

01:48:50.000 We're pulling our own strings.

01:48:52.000 Right!

01:48:53.000 But that's how...

01:48:54.000 It's a visual.

01:48:55.000 Oh, I see it and that's where I want to be.

01:48:57.000 Right.

01:48:57.000 Oh, look at that image.

01:48:58.000 It has to be that image. 1.00

01:48:59.000 You know how many women want to get fat shot into their ass so they look like Kim Kardashian? 1.00

01:49:03.000 There's like a whole trend where women are waist training, where they're wearing these corsets and tightening down their fucking organs, and then they're having fat shoved into their ass. 1.00

01:49:13.000 They're extracting fat from areas of their body and then reintroducing it into their ass. 1.00

01:49:19.000 In order to develop this round, ridiculous thing that looks like you're wearing a fucking diaper. 1.00

01:49:24.000 To be relevant in our society. 1.00

01:49:26.000 To imitate the same way, you know, the Suri women have fucking plates in their lips. 1.00

01:49:32.000 We're imitating patterns that we see. 0.99

01:49:34.000 They don't necessarily have to make sense, but we're this weird animal that sort of imitates what our surroundings are.

01:49:40.000 We imitate our atmosphere in some strange way, and we can sort of create our own hell. 0.97

01:49:47.000 We reproduce this thing around us that's not just unsuccessful, it's unsatisfying, it's weird, it's depressing, and we do the goddamn same thing. 0.74

01:49:56.000 We've become too good at adaptation. 0.55

01:49:59.000 We've adapted to a sort of a mutated state, and that's what we were trying to say earlier with the influences, the paradigm, the template that we're moving towards is too predicated on the material to the point where, yeah, it's ludicrous things. 0.59

01:50:09.000 I do like you drawing the comparison between the neck things and the earring things and the Kardashian ass things.

01:50:13.000 That power that we're harnessing all seems to center around innovation.

01:50:19.000 When we're pursuing material possessions, when we're pursuing physical items, we're not talking about vintage things.

01:50:27.000 I'm really into handmade things.

01:50:29.000 I love a handmade bag or a handmade knife.

01:50:33.000 I love the idea that someone created something and crafted something.

01:50:36.000 But those things are the same... 0.99

01:50:38.000 Like, if you buy a knife that some guy made hammering in one of those vats of fucking fire and bang, bang, bang... 0.99

01:50:46.000 He's doing it the same way people have done it for hundreds, if not thousands of years. 0.99

01:50:50.000 There's something fascinating about that and interesting about that.

01:50:53.000 But in terms of like...

01:50:54.000 Progression and innovation. 0.99

01:50:56.000 It's like you can't compete with these goddamn laptops or phones or any of these things. 0.97

01:51:00.000 Those things are getting better and better at this staggering exponential rate. 0.98

01:51:06.000 And at the end of that line, if you extrapolate, if you look at it from a distance, you pull yourself away from culture and civilization and look down.

01:51:14.000 What is this super-being, called the human race, what is this super-organism doing?

01:51:19.000 Well, it's creating better and better things.

01:51:21.000 Well, why is it doing that?

01:51:22.000 Why is it ignoring the very ocean that surrounds it? 0.98

01:51:25.000 Why is it sucking all the fish out of the ocean and shitting all the fucking dirt and dust up into the air, but ignoring that while concentrating on the possession and the innovation of all these electronic gadgets? 0.97

01:51:37.000 Well, it's got to be something to do with that. 0.99

01:51:39.000 It's like a pull.

01:51:40.000 And McKenna used to call it an attractor.

01:51:43.000 That we're being pulled towards some future attractor, some singularity event, some moment that we are creating, whether we're aware of it or not, but that part of all of our ridiculous behavior in terms of our ego and our drive for success and attention and love and affection,

01:52:01.000 all these different things, is really sort of pushing this innovation further and further and quicker and quicker.

01:52:07.000 That's an extremely interesting idea.

01:52:08.000 One of the things I was thinking when you're saying that is like...

01:52:11.000 Every time that's happening, the creativity, where are these things before they exist?

01:52:17.000 Things exist in this unrealised realm, what Plato referred to as the realm of ideas, that there's an idealised form of all things before they are realised in the material world.

01:52:27.000 Someone designing a knife has to consciously conceive of the knife before bringing it into the material world.

01:52:33.000 There's this constant need to pull from this unrealised...

01:52:37.000 Whenever I see babies now, I want to go, where were you?

01:52:40.000 Where were you before?

01:52:41.000 Where was your consciousness?

01:52:43.000 Tell me what it's like.

01:52:44.000 I was friendly, and hopefully still am, friendly with David Lynch, the filmmaker, and he told me that a friend of his were outside their kid's nursery and they had a three-year-old kid and a six-month-old kid, and they heard their three-year-old go to the six-month kid, I need you to tell me about heaven again because I'm beginning to forget heaven.

01:53:04.000 That's creepy, isn't it?

01:53:05.000 And it came from David Lynch, so it blew my mind.

01:53:08.000 Where is consciousness before it's realized?

01:53:11.000 But I'm beginning to forget.

01:53:12.000 It freaked me out a bit.

01:53:14.000 As a person, and Jim, you can back me up on this, as a person who has kids, one of the most bizarre aspects of child raising is that when you have them in their babings, Yeah.

01:53:43.000 Those incredibly powerful moments, you forget. 1.00

01:53:46.000 But, meanwhile, you remember some cunt who cut you off in traffic 14 years ago and you're like, I should have kicked that fucking guy's ass. 1.00

01:53:53.000 I saw him at the red light and I didn't get out of my car and it haunts me to this day. 1.00

01:53:57.000 I want to drag him out of his car and feed him his fucking teeth. 1.00

01:53:59.000 You remember that. 1.00

01:54:01.000 But you won't remember your daughter being too dancing to some music...

01:54:07.000 That's on television and everybody laughing and cheering along.

01:54:10.000 You have to see it. 0.99

01:54:11.000 You have to look at a fucking video that you saved on your iPhone and watch it and you go, oh yeah, that's right. 0.99

01:54:15.000 Oh my god, what an amazing moment. 0.97

01:54:18.000 Somehow or another, almost like dreams, those ideas are erased from the accessible memory in some strange way, or many of them are. 0.78

01:54:27.000 So when you hear a three-year-old saying that to a six-month, that is fucking crazy because it makes you wonder.

01:54:35.000 Because that's one of the properties of DMT, by the way, which is the psychedelic that's created by your own brain. 0.81

01:54:40.000 One of the major properties of that dream is how profound the visions are, incredibly powerful, but then they slip through your hands.

01:54:48.000 They are gone.

01:54:49.000 They're gone just like a dream.

01:54:51.000 When you wake up from a dream and you try to explain it to somebody, you have a very small window where you can explain that dream. 0.99

01:54:57.000 So what the fuck is going on in consciousness? 0.91

01:55:00.000 Yeah, there's powerful moments, though. 0.99

01:55:02.000 There's an eraser!

01:55:03.000 Yes, but there's also powerful, really good moments that I've had with each one of my kids that I can literally, out of all the moments that I've said, I don't remember this.

01:55:13.000 You've stored them in the museum of your mind.

01:55:15.000 I have forgotten most, but there's a handful That I remember as if it was yesterday that was on a deeper, spiritual, conscious level where we just locked eyes, and it was a moment, and we just knew everything about each other at that moment.

01:55:31.000 Maybe I wanted that moment, but that's how it felt, and I can count that with each one of my kids where I always go back to going, wow, I really know who you really are, and I'm trying to get you back to that.

01:55:43.000 Does it make sense?

01:55:44.000 It does.

01:55:45.000 I think that we have an accessible database.

01:55:46.000 We have a hard drive.

01:55:47.000 We have a certain amount of space.

01:55:49.000 And that's been proven when it comes to how many people you can know and keep in your life.

01:55:53.000 They say that you could keep about 150 people in your life.

01:55:56.000 And you can sort of remember these people, and you can hold these people. 1.00

01:56:02.000 But once you go past 150, it gets fucking slippery as shit. 0.98

01:56:06.000 And you must experience that, because you're constantly meeting people, and people know who you are, and you don't remember them. 0.99

01:56:11.000 And after a while, you can go, nice to meet you.

01:56:14.000 And they go, we already met.

01:56:14.000 We met three years ago.

01:56:15.000 And you're like, oh, I forgot.

01:56:17.000 Yeah, I can't maintain this many connections.

01:56:20.000 It's a hard drive issue.

01:56:21.000 It's a literal hard drive issue. 0.70

01:56:23.000 I forget, what is the fucking, I know, it's not Bode's Law is the size of planets. 0.70

01:56:27.000 It's, uh, I forget the principle, but the principle is 100, whatever the word is, it's 150 people. 0.98

01:56:32.000 And you keep those 150 people in your head, and that's it.

01:56:35.000 It correlates to what we were talking about with the old chimpanzees and anthropology, that there is an ideal size for a community before it becomes like, oh, this is too hard to deal with.

01:56:45.000 But those things you were talking about with your children there are like transcendent moments.

01:56:50.000 Dunbar's number, that's it.

01:56:51.000 Cool.

01:56:52.000 You're talking about moments where it didn't matter that you're individual A and that's individual B, that there's a clear connection, that something passes between us.

01:56:59.000 And it was overpowering and beautiful just for that moment.

01:57:03.000 And that keeps me going in certain moments of time, even though I'm 15 years later and 20. No one can describe it to me.

01:57:11.000 I just know, wow, that was a deeper moment.

01:57:13.000 And on some level, that can be broken down, I'm sure, to sort of oxytocin and like, oh, this hormone was triggered by that.

01:57:20.000 There There is a sort of mechanical or material component to even the most beautiful experiences of a sunset or whatever it is.

01:57:27.000 But to return to what you were saying, Joe, before, of how we favour negative information, there's a clear evolutionary bias for negative information has to be stored because, you know, is that a tree or is that a lion?

01:57:37.000 You know what I mean?

01:57:38.000 Yes.

01:57:39.000 It's a lion, so negative information does have priority.

01:57:43.000 But where you say about this continued technological evolution, what I think is that there's an imperative to have a comparable spiritual evolution revolution.

01:57:55.000 Yes.

01:57:56.000 How I think that can occur is, like, the more that I meditate and spend time doing that sort of stuff, it gives me more of an awareness of the kind of phenomenon you're talking about, about the positive things, and, like, you know, about, oh, my God, I must hold this moment in my heart, the moment where my dog done that, or the moment I found out my girlfriend was pregnant. 0.86

01:58:11.000 Don't fucking let this go.

01:58:13.000 Make this part of who you are as a character and try to prioritise it over negative things or when someone hurts you. 0.98

01:58:19.000 And I think that one has more determination over that, more authority over that if you have meditation as part of your life, if you have a spiritual component.

01:58:29.000 When I was a teenager, I noticed that my mates...

01:58:33.000 When I was hanging out with my mates, we were smoking loads of drawers, then we'd get in the car, we'd go out, they'd go to work, my mate worked in a car factory, and then he'd go and work doors, doing security.

01:58:43.000 And I thought, this guy never ever is just in reflection.

01:58:46.000 Still.

01:58:46.000 Yeah, he's never still.

01:58:48.000 He's never in reflection.

01:58:48.000 He's always engaged with some external thing.

01:58:50.000 He was a really lovely guy, as a matter of fact, he was.

01:58:53.000 But I became aware then that that's myself.

01:58:57.000 Part of my addiction was these uncontrolled drives always wanting something.

01:59:01.000 Approval, sex. 0.82

01:59:03.000 I was unable to be still and be in the cell. 1.00

01:59:05.000 And so many fucking things. 0.99

01:59:07.000 I'm not a Christian, but there's so many biblical things. 0.99

01:59:11.000 You know, the kingdom of heaven is spread upon the earth, but man sees it not.

01:59:14.000 The kingdom of heaven is within.

01:59:16.000 Be still and know that I am God. 0.99

01:59:18.000 You know, sort of like, for me, all the fuzzy fucking rapture cloud kingdom bullshit, you know, that's no use to anybody. 0.99

01:59:24.000 But when people are saying to you, it's in there, it's in there, it's there already. 0.98

01:59:28.000 You know, like, there's no...

01:59:29.000 Of course we are also living in a material world, and I am a material girl, so we can't sort of like...

01:59:33.000 We can't drop the drive to continue to create great achievements as a species, but a part of it has got to be learn how to connect to yourself, learn how to connect to your emotions, learn how to store positive experiences and learn how to let go of negative ones.

01:59:49.000 If that data isn't out there, we've all got our paths, haven't we?

01:59:52.000 We've all got our individual attributes and skills, like you said if we were on communism island.

01:59:58.000 You know, you need people to be realising what is their part of the divine.

02:00:03.000 What is the little part of you that's trying to realise itself but life's kept fucking knocking you back and the systems kept breaking you down and you've not got to realise that thing that you can feel like a tree you're trying to grow into.

02:00:15.000 That's the part of it that I think can only happen as part of a spiritual evolution. 0.99

02:00:20.000 And I think you can only get the ticket to the spiritual evolution if you learn to deal with this fucking mad stimulating bullshit that we're jacked up on. 0.99

02:00:26.000 It's what you said. 1.00

02:00:27.000 You meditate, you gotta turn it all off.

02:00:29.000 It's really hard.

02:00:30.000 You gotta turn it all off.

02:00:32.000 Nothing.

02:00:33.000 And then your mind will have a chance to grow.

02:00:35.000 I also think that that's where the compelling feeling to gravitate towards that comes from, a dissatisfaction with the material world, dissatisfaction with this idea of possessions, and that there is some sort of a weird ebb and flow and a yin and yang to the world, and sometimes you have to see the fucking disastrous effects of just giving in to material possessions and the compelling feeling of wanting attention and nonsense and just gathering up items and living in the biggest house.

02:01:04.000 You have to almost...

02:01:05.000 Feel the emptiness of that to gravitate towards a spiritual approach.

02:01:09.000 And I think that's one of the reasons why those things are there.

02:01:11.000 It's almost like people who do horrible things, like sometimes I feel like horrible things when they're manifested by the human race, they sort of, they can give birth to a lot of positive reactions because people don't ever want to be like that.

02:01:25.000 And they see that and they go, well this is definitely not the way to go because we're kind of all going through it together.

02:01:30.000 One of the things about the human mind and the human experience, like being a conscious human, is we assume that we're this static thing.

02:01:37.000 Meanwhile, we're very well aware that evolution exists all throughout the natural world, and we're also well aware that we've only really been this thing for like, what, a half a million, quarter of a million years?

02:01:48.000 It's not been that long that you could go back and find an ancient human, and they look like you could put it in your clothes and put it in a movie theater and we wouldn't freak out.

02:01:58.000 It's not that long.

02:01:59.000 It's a short amount of time.

02:02:00.000 So if you think about the fact that we know that these animals and these things are constantly evolving and changing and adapting all around us, why would we assume that we're in some sort of a static state?

02:02:11.000 I think that our own gravitation towards material possessions And our own use of this new form of interacting with each other through social media and the internet and movies.

02:02:23.000 But all those things are new. 1.00

02:02:24.000 We have to understand that mass media is fucking new as shit. 0.99

02:02:28.000 All of it. 1.00

02:02:29.000 Newspapers are new as fuck. 0.99

02:02:31.000 Everything's a couple hundred years old. 1.00

02:02:32.000 The oldest shit is a couple hundred years old. 0.99

02:02:35.000 Photographs, couple hundred years old. 1.00

02:02:37.000 We're dealing with really, really, really new influences on the mind.

02:02:40.000 And the mind is developing and expanding and reacting to all these new things.

02:02:46.000 And sometimes it reacts in a very negative way.

02:02:49.000 Like it gravitates towards the Kardashians. 1.00

02:02:51.000 And it goes towards fucking possessions. 1.00

02:02:52.000 And it wants the shiniest new thing to show everybody that you've arrived. 0.99

02:02:56.000 And it's a part, a cog, an unconscious cog in this machine that's just producing new items.

02:03:04.000 And then sometimes there's a guy like you who sees that and goes, there is no soul to that. 0.99

02:03:09.000 I'm going to jump in the fucking lake near this royals house and I'm going to experience what it's like to freeze my dick off and I'm going to carve a new path. 0.98

02:03:17.000 And I'm gonna separate, and I'm gonna try domesticity, and I'm gonna try abstinence, and I'm gonna try to find some sort of a new way of addressing my dissatisfaction with the current state of the world that I find myself in. 0.99

02:03:28.000 Oh, I like that. 0.96

02:03:29.000 That was a fucking good rant. 0.99

02:03:30.000 I need a nap. 1.00

02:03:32.000 That was deep.

02:03:33.000 It was.

02:03:33.000 I need a nap.

02:03:34.000 It happens a lot in here, doesn't it?

02:03:35.000 It does.

02:03:36.000 I need a nap.

02:03:36.000 But there's a part of that in all of us.

02:03:38.000 We're all just going, this ain't it.

02:03:40.000 Maybe this is it.

02:03:40.000 This ain't it.

02:03:41.000 Maybe it's yoga.

02:03:42.000 Maybe it's Scientology.

02:03:43.000 Maybe it's being a Mooney.

02:03:44.000 Maybe it's this.

02:03:45.000 Maybe it's that. 1.00

02:03:45.000 Maybe this fucking chick is holding me back and I need a goddamn divorce. 1.00

02:03:50.000 Get the fuck away from me. 1.00

02:03:52.000 I'm going to wear a captain's outfit now and I'm going to find some chick who lives by the beach. 1.00

02:03:56.000 Yeah.

02:03:57.000 We've got to the captain's outfit.

02:03:59.000 We've reached captain outfit.

02:03:59.000 I've always wanted to live out of my car and travel around the world.

02:04:02.000 I'm going to put a bed in the backseat and, you know, it's like dissatisfaction with the currents.

02:04:06.000 And it's been happening forever.

02:04:07.000 Yes.

02:04:08.000 Can I go to the toilet, please? 1.00

02:04:09.000 You forever maniacs. 0.99

02:04:10.000 Please do. 0.99

02:04:10.000 Go right through there. 0.99

02:04:11.000 Yeah, right through that door.

02:04:12.000 First door on the right.

02:04:13.000 It's going to seem weird.

02:04:13.000 It's going to seem right.

02:04:14.000 No, no, because I've got to pee.

02:04:15.000 Can I be honest with you?

02:04:16.000 I was trying to be a man.

02:04:17.000 I mean, for me.

02:04:18.000 It's going to be weird to be in another room that ain't got you slot's voices in it.

02:04:21.000 No, don't worry about it, man.

02:04:22.000 Don't worry about it.

02:04:23.000 You've drank three waters. 0.94

02:04:24.000 I've drank two in one and I've got to piss like a horse. 1.00

02:04:27.000 And I can hold this shit in for another day. 0.99

02:04:31.000 It takes a strong bladder to do a podcast, Jim. 1.00

02:04:34.000 By the way, I should just say while we're doing this, one of the reasons why I really got into doing a podcast, there's a bunch of them, Opie and Anthony were a big one, but your fucking show was a big one, man. 0.90

02:04:44.000 When I did your show, and we did it at that joke place on Ventura Boulevard, remember you were in LA? Yeah. 0.72

02:04:51.000 And you were in town, and I had done your show calling in before, but we'd never done together. 0.69

02:04:56.000 I was like, this is so fucking fun. 0.75

02:04:59.000 Just hanging. 0.94

02:05:00.000 Well, what I loved about that one, too, is what that thing allowed me to do is, believe it or not, thought-provoke and let other people...

02:05:09.000 To me, one of the greatest moments ever was you called in...

02:05:14.000 And we wrote we were all sitting there and I think you went into this whole thing of these are the times of truth and this and that and I think you spoke for 45 minutes straight and I just kept looking everyone going don't just let him go this is this is this is fascinating let him go where else can you have this and one of my guys Made like this whole Pink Floyd music and he put it on the internet.

02:05:40.000 I said, you got to get that on the internet.

02:05:42.000 And I think I remember calling you or telling you going, Joe, this is...

02:05:46.000 That was the most fascinating thing I ever heard in my life. 0.99

02:05:49.000 High as fuck. 1.00

02:05:50.000 So high I thought I was going to die. 1.00

02:05:51.000 But it doesn't...

02:05:52.000 I'm sure you were.

02:05:54.000 And...

02:05:54.000 But...

02:05:56.000 You never were allowed to even think like that on radio.

02:05:59.000 No.

02:05:59.000 And one of the things you said too, which was my favorite part was...

02:06:03.000 And again, I end up fearing it because I didn't want people to think of it, was our opening song, which just explained...

02:06:09.000 It was just the four of us, we came out, two of the guy musicians, and you came in and you're like...

02:06:13.000 Bro, that is the greatest theme song I ever heard in my life.

02:06:19.000 And I was like, really?

02:06:20.000 Yeah.

02:06:21.000 What was you?

02:06:22.000 Well, it was me and the guys.

02:06:23.000 And we were just really just talking and we riffed it.

02:06:26.000 And I said, don't even change it.

02:06:27.000 Let's just do that.

02:06:28.000 It was perfect.

02:06:29.000 But it was real.

02:06:30.000 Yes.

02:06:31.000 And then I knew when I heard you...

02:06:38.000 You need to be in this world.

02:06:40.000 It's great to have you in this world.

02:06:44.000 It's refreshing.

02:06:46.000 It's thought-provoking.

02:06:47.000 It's powerful.

02:06:49.000 I love it, man.

02:06:50.000 I'm very, very...

02:06:51.000 I love it.

02:06:53.000 Yeah, well, I love it too, man.

02:06:54.000 It's a unique time, you know, that we can have something like this.

02:06:58.000 And when I was on your show, I was like, man, I need to get one of these satellite radio shows. 0.99

02:07:03.000 These are the shit. 0.99

02:07:04.000 I didn't know there was going to be an internet version of that where you don't have any bosses. 1.00

02:07:07.000 No bosses.

02:07:08.000 And it reaches even more people.

02:07:09.000 It doesn't make any sense at all.

02:07:11.000 Somehow or another, a path has been carved through the information highways that people have never been on before.

02:07:17.000 It's only like 10 years old.

02:07:19.000 And through that path, you reach everybody.

02:07:21.000 And it's free.

02:07:23.000 Like, it violates all the ideas of capitalism.

02:07:25.000 You don't have to pay for it.

02:07:26.000 It's massively successful.

02:07:28.000 And there's 500,000 of them?

02:07:31.000 And it lives forever.

02:07:33.000 Yeah, forever.

02:07:34.000 Forever.

02:07:34.000 So people can constantly discover it.

02:07:37.000 Allegedly.

02:07:38.000 Allegedly.

02:07:39.000 I mean, what I'm saying is, like, we might not make it.

02:07:42.000 You know, asteroid hits.

02:07:43.000 Well, whatever.

02:07:44.000 Until that happens...

02:07:46.000 It'd be nice to know that someone that's never even heard of you, and 20 years down the road, they're going, you need to listen to this conversation.

02:07:54.000 You know, Russell Brand was in there on this day.

02:07:56.000 Listen to that.

02:07:57.000 And 20 years from now, they're going, you know, that makes a lot of sense.

02:08:02.000 It's pretty awesome.

02:08:03.000 This is the great part of social media.

02:08:06.000 Well, it's also that it's all free and that they're all available.

02:08:09.000 You can get 800 plus episodes of this thing anytime you want it.

02:08:12.000 And when things are free, you can be more honest and more passionate about what you're putting out there because no one's paying you to say anything.

02:08:20.000 Well, did you ever get any pressure when you were doing the satellite show? 0.98

02:08:23.000 Did anybody ever come to you and go, Hey, Jim, we listened to that show and you guys are, you got to fucking tone it down. 0.98

02:08:28.000 Never. 0.97

02:08:29.000 That's amazing.

02:08:30.000 Never.

02:08:31.000 That's amazing.

02:08:31.000 I have to honestly say never, never, never, never.

02:08:33.000 Because Opie and Anthony got suspended a couple of times, even from satellite radio.

02:08:37.000 They were getting, first of all, they were getting a lot of commercial money.

02:08:42.000 Yeah.

02:08:43.000 Yep, they certainly were.

02:08:45.000 And they rubbed the wrong side of the madness.

02:08:50.000 Yeah.

02:08:51.000 You know, it was all over Fox News, like, you don't do that.

02:08:54.000 Well, they were kind of compromised in some sort of a weird way, whether they wanted to be or not, because they were making a fuckload of money.

02:09:00.000 And as soon as a company is paying you X amount of money every year, and they get upset about something, or they feel like the advertising revenue is going to dry up because you guys have said something crazy.

02:09:10.000 Remember when they had that homeless guy on? 0.98

02:09:13.000 Who said some crazy shit about Condoleezza Rice? 0.99

02:09:15.000 No! 0.99

02:09:16.000 Yeah, they got suspended for like a year or like a month or something like that.

02:09:20.000 They had some- might be a week.

02:09:22.000 I'm making up numbers. 0.97

02:09:23.000 They had some homeless guy who came on and said he wanted to rape Condoleezza Rice. 0.99

02:09:27.000 Oh, wow. 1.00

02:09:28.000 And they were like, what the fuck? 1.00

02:09:30.000 And they just had some crazy guy off the street and he talked all kinds of crazy nonsense and he left and, you know, it's all live. 1.00

02:09:37.000 So it's happening live.

02:09:38.000 There's nothing you can do about it.

02:09:38.000 They got a homeless guy in the air.

02:09:40.000 I mean, what the fuck are they going to do? 0.98

02:09:41.000 It's not. 0.99

02:09:41.000 L.P. didn't say it. 0.99

02:09:42.000 Anthony didn't say it.

02:09:43.000 Norton didn't say it.

02:09:44.000 But because it was on their show, they pulled the show.

02:09:47.000 And it was probably because of political pressure or pressure from the Bush administration.

02:09:52.000 This is also, coincidentally, during the time where, I mean, Howard Stern, it was just after the time of Howard Stern getting sued over and over again by the government.

02:10:00.000 Remember, they would give these massive lawsuits and that drove him to satellite radio.

02:10:05.000 Right.

02:10:06.000 And even in satellite radio, they weren't safe.

02:10:08.000 So even in satellite radio, he moved to satellite radio, he moved to Sirius.

02:10:11.000 They were on XM at the time.

02:10:12.000 I think it was before the merge of Sirius XM or maybe right afterwards.

02:10:15.000 But either way, they weren't free even under the banner of this free thing on satellite radio.

02:10:22.000 The political machine still had influence.

02:10:26.000 Yeah, we never were told, don't say this.

02:10:29.000 That's amazing.

02:10:29.000 Don't do that.

02:10:30.000 Because you had some wild fucking shows. 1.00

02:10:32.000 They would do. 1.00

02:10:33.000 They would go, hey, listen, you know, ratings time.

02:10:36.000 It looks good if you guys were to come up with a biggie kind of entertaining show.

02:10:41.000 And then that would, like, that we can get out there and the, uh...

02:10:46.000 Did you get to choose guests?

02:10:48.000 Um, yeah.

02:10:50.000 Like all of them?

02:10:51.000 They weren't running to us, trust me.

02:10:53.000 But did you get to veto anybody?

02:10:56.000 Yeah, I couldn't tell you who.

02:10:57.000 There was a million guys like, I don't know anything about this guy.

02:10:59.000 I don't want to talk to him.

02:11:00.000 Oh, okay.

02:11:00.000 What am I getting out of that?

02:11:01.000 So they bring suggestions to you? 0.99

02:11:03.000 This politician, I'm just going to be a dick. 0.99

02:11:05.000 Yeah, see, that's a beautiful thing about the time that you were involved in it, too, because you were involved in it back when I was on Fear Factor because the stunt guys fucking loved your show, man. 0.98

02:11:15.000 I had to do this thing where I got in the truck.

02:11:17.000 We had to drive to some location and was hanging out with these stunt guys, and they were playing your show when it was on Raw Dog.

02:11:22.000 Yeah.

02:11:23.000 And they loved it. 0.98

02:11:25.000 And they were like, dude, Brewer Show is the fucking best. 0.98

02:11:27.000 And it was really wild and raw. 0.98

02:11:30.000 And I was like, you maybe couldn't even do that today.

02:11:33.000 Well, those are my best friends growing up.

02:11:35.000 And my best friends was Jimmy Shaka, who was deep.

02:11:38.000 And we would have these conversations for hours.

02:11:41.000 And it really bothered me that there was no outlet for this anywhere. 0.94

02:11:46.000 You had to be a freak or weirdo, a hippie or whatever. 0.52

02:11:49.000 And then I had another best friend on there... 0.98

02:11:52.000 Who works for FedEx.

02:11:54.000 He had the blue collar.

02:11:56.000 He's stuck in that blue collar neighborhood.

02:11:59.000 He's a little racist, but he won't really...

02:12:02.000 But this is just who he is.

02:12:05.000 And then you had Corrielli, who's just...

02:12:08.000 He'll say whatever.

02:12:10.000 He'll just go and say whatever and do whatever.

02:12:13.000 So it was great to have all these different views, honest views.

02:12:18.000 And the big rule was no news, no pop culture.

02:12:23.000 If you bring pop culture on the show, you're out.

02:12:26.000 We're anti-pop culture.

02:12:27.000 You're out.

02:12:28.000 You're fired.

02:12:29.000 Get that name, you're banned forever.

02:12:31.000 Well, that's beautiful in a lot of ways.

02:12:33.000 But it was a hang, too.

02:12:34.000 It was a hang.

02:12:35.000 I was trying to get it back to...

02:12:38.000 Tribalism, whatever.

02:12:39.000 At the end of the day, isn't some of the best times you have conversations like these?

02:12:43.000 Or when you're with the people you trust the most.

02:12:46.000 That could be the kid you grew up with.

02:12:47.000 It could be anyone, a family member.

02:12:49.000 Someone you just met.

02:12:50.000 And you're just hanging out at the end of the night.

02:12:53.000 You don't care what this one's doing or that one doing.

02:12:55.000 And you're just hanging out.

02:12:57.000 There's a fire.

02:12:58.000 You're talking. 1.00

02:12:58.000 And at the end of the day, it's all the same shit. 1.00

02:13:00.000 What's out there? 1.00

02:13:01.000 Who really knows?

02:13:02.000 What's this? 0.99

02:13:03.000 Who really fucking knows? 0.98

02:13:05.000 Let's talk about it and try to figure it out for three hours, and when we get out of it, who really fucking knows? 0.99

02:13:12.000 Time for bed.

02:13:13.000 My kid's getting up in six hours, but it felt great.

02:13:15.000 But you feel good that you're all doing it together.

02:13:18.000 You trust each other.

02:13:19.000 Am I crazy for saying this?

02:13:21.000 I might be. 1.00

02:13:22.000 He'll tell me, dude, you're fucking crazy. 1.00

02:13:24.000 Why would you say, that's stupid. 1.00

02:13:26.000 That's stupid? 1.00

02:13:26.000 Why is that stupid? 1.00

02:13:28.000 And just, that was pretty cool. 1.00

02:13:31.000 You bounce things off of each other and they make more sense that way.

02:13:33.000 If I trust you and your instincts and your mind and I tell you something that I believe and you refute it and I go, oh, okay, I have to consider his point of view.

02:13:40.000 Because if I trust your point of view, and your point of view differs from mine, well, how did he come to this conclusion, and why is it so different than my own?

02:13:46.000 And by absorbing a bunch of different points of view like that, it gives you a much more nuanced perspective of this existence.

02:13:52.000 And you have to be open.

02:13:53.000 I'm not out to win the conversation.

02:13:55.000 Right.

02:13:55.000 We're just here to learn from it more.

02:13:57.000 That's important.

02:13:58.000 People have to be open with that, and I think we've all been guilty of not being open to that before, wanting to be right.

02:14:04.000 But it's important to not just embrace being wrong, but try to understand why you were wrong.

02:14:10.000 Try to understand what it was, and not be connected in some weird ego way to your ideas.

02:14:15.000 It's hard to get through that, Joe. 1.00

02:14:16.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

02:14:17.000 But it's like all those other things that we're talking about. 0.99

02:14:19.000 I mean, like you saying that you have this gravitation towards expelling all of these ridiculous notions that everybody's just sort of accepted as fact and truth and trying to connect with a much more spiritual life.

02:14:32.000 Well, that means you've got to think about it.

02:14:34.000 It's got to be a conscious thing.

02:14:36.000 And the same thing with...

02:14:37.000 Not holding on to your ideas and not being married to them and not being invested in being correct or incorrect, but just sort of accepting them as just ideas and be able to go, yeah, I think you're right.

02:14:50.000 Why was I thinking that?

02:14:50.000 And that's hard for people to do.

02:14:52.000 I know this is stupid, but I saw a statement. 0.98

02:14:56.000 It was a tourist spot, but I passed the tourist spot. 0.98

02:15:01.000 I went in the house.

02:15:03.000 And there was a statement in there.

02:15:05.000 It's simple, but it just blew my mind.

02:15:08.000 It said, one person could change the whole world for a better as long as they don't give a damn who gets that credit.

02:15:17.000 Oh my god. 1.00

02:15:18.000 They have a fucking date. 0.99

02:15:20.000 And I thought, if you just want to sit back, you just want to see things better, And you really can change it for the better, but you don't have to worry about going, you know, so-and-so said that, or so-and-so set that up, or so-and-so did that, because now you're doing it for a different reason. 0.99

02:15:36.000 That's amazing.

02:15:38.000 Yeah, I'd never heard that before until yesterday.

02:15:42.000 I saw that quote and that's a problem that I continually have.

02:15:48.000 All of us!

02:15:49.000 All of us!

02:16:03.000 This kind of thing is not really...

02:16:05.000 Like you said, the fast-moving, fast-cut soundbite TV just bombarded with an artillery of mostly erroneous information.

02:16:12.000 You don't get to hear people hour after hour talking, examining, discarding, as you said, who really knows, and returning to that point.

02:16:22.000 It's sort of encouraging, because I've had like...

02:16:24.000 You know, like, as I, like, I've always thought, like, you know, I don't, like, agree with, like, Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity or those guys, but I've always kind of thought, I bet I'd think they were alright if I hung out with them.

02:16:35.000 Yeah.

02:16:35.000 Like, there's something about Bill O'Reilly, like, he's, like, a curmudgeonly kind of, oh, come on!

02:16:39.000 Like, I think he was kind of okay.

02:16:43.000 I think you would joke around with them and you guys would probably start laughing about some things.

02:16:46.000 And that's kind of a reassuring thing, isn't it?

02:16:49.000 To not be kind of...

02:16:51.000 I think that's what's kind of ugly about both liberalism and neoliberalism.

02:16:56.000 You can see it's people just forcing their idea and they've lost touch with... 0.99

02:17:01.000 I do it all the fucking time. 0.96

02:17:02.000 What is it that we're genuinely here for? 0.99

02:17:04.000 And that thing you said of you can change the world if you're willing to do it, if no one knowing about it.

02:17:11.000 That's like... 0.99

02:17:11.000 The pang that I feel in my gut shows me how much my ego is still involved in the shit I do. 0.99

02:17:16.000 Well, the lack of discourse. 0.99

02:17:18.000 I just saw it.

02:17:19.000 I didn't say it.

02:17:20.000 I literally saw it.

02:17:21.000 Yeah, but the lack of discourse, like we're talking about being one of the more important things about podcasts or one of the best things about podcasts.

02:17:29.000 I mean, I'm really hoping that that's the trend of the future.

02:17:32.000 That people understand that there might not be a right way or a wrong way to do a lot of these things.

02:17:37.000 And that your point of view, whether you strongly believe it or not, might not really work for the way I see the world.

02:17:43.000 It doesn't mean that you're right or I'm wrong.

02:17:45.000 It doesn't.

02:17:47.000 I mean, there's some certain truths like, hey, don't rape people.

02:17:49.000 Hey, don't murder people.

02:17:50.000 Those things are obvious.

02:17:51.000 But there's some other things that aren't obvious.

02:17:54.000 There's other things that are not obvious.

02:17:56.000 Like, maybe you shouldn't hurt people's feelings.

02:17:58.000 Maybe you should mock them.

02:18:00.000 Because what they're doing is preposterous, and in hurting their feelings, you actually elevate all of us to realize the humor and their folly. 0.62

02:18:06.000 And I'm a big fan of folly.

02:18:08.000 I enjoy human folly.

02:18:10.000 It's one of the things I enjoy most about humans. 0.99

02:18:11.000 I'm the quickest to make fun of my own self, so if I can't make fun of them, what kind of a fucking goofy-ass world are we running? 0.99

02:18:18.000 We run in some super-sensitive world where everyone's a perfect snowflake and we can't shit on them? 1.00

02:18:22.000 Like, nonsense. 0.99

02:18:23.000 You need humility.

02:18:25.000 You need humility.

02:18:26.000 Humor is real important to unpackage things. 0.72

02:18:29.000 Because there's a lot of things that are going on right now in this world that are a little fucking weird.

02:18:34.000 And one of the reasons why they're weird is because humor hasn't had a chance to dissect them.

02:18:39.000 Wow.

02:18:40.000 I heard John Cleese talking about comedy and he said that people are very anti-humour because they know it's powerful and they often use the idea that, hey, don't joke around, this is serious.

02:18:56.000 But you're supposed to joke around about things that are serious.

02:18:58.000 And he said they have mistaken seriousness for solemnity. 0.99

02:19:01.000 And the reason they want to be all solemn about stuff is because they know it prevents people that have got that comedic switchblade from getting into the argument where you can detonate shit. 0.98

02:19:11.000 I'm not taking that seriously. 0.93

02:19:12.000 I'm not playing by those rules.

02:19:13.000 And they've also taken away your special power.

02:19:16.000 Yes.

02:19:17.000 And it's a special power.

02:19:18.000 They don't have it.

02:19:18.000 It is a special power.

02:19:19.000 Both of you guys have it.

02:19:20.000 Like, they don't have it. 0.99

02:19:21.000 So if you come in and you deflate their argument with a quick switchblade, oh, this piece of shit, why are you joking around about something really important? 1.00

02:19:29.000 Maybe your white privilege is showing. 0.99

02:19:31.000 Maybe you should consider the fact that your humor is offensive to a lot of people. 1.00

02:19:34.000 And what you're doing is bullshit, and it's not helping. 0.99

02:19:37.000 It's very regressive. 0.99

02:19:39.000 And they always try to use humor, though, huh?

02:19:42.000 They always stitch it into political discourse.

02:19:46.000 Here's one of the real problems with the left, and especially the regressive left and the people that think that they're going to change things. 0.98

02:19:53.000 They're fucking unbelievably mean when they're mocking the right. 0.98

02:19:57.000 You're talking about compassion. 1.00

02:19:59.000 I've seen some of the least compassion, meanest, angriest shit, come out of people that consider themselves to be liberal and progressive. 0.99

02:20:06.000 And their idea is to close down discourse. 0.99

02:20:09.000 What they're going to do is going to shit on you and insult you and then gang up in some sort of a weird bully pulpit to attack all the people that don't agree with them. 0.96

02:20:18.000 When I got involved in politics in my country, doing that thing, The Truth, and I wrote a book as well called Revolution, and in that book I talked about it was basically a book that was meant to be for younger people, and it was like, this is my perspective on why I don't believe in this stuff and why I believe in this. 0.99

02:20:35.000 It was relatively simple, and again, I'm a self-taught person, so it's not a book by a fucking academic, right?

02:20:41.000 The worst vitriol and the worst condemnation came from the kind of newspapers and liberal organisations that I would think would be supportive of such, of like, you know, it's good that this guy from the world of popular entertainment, who's not classically educated, is trying to do that. 0.98

02:20:56.000 No, they came in like Get the fuck out of our territory! 1.00

02:21:00.000 Shut up! 1.00

02:21:01.000 Shut up! 1.00

02:21:02.000 Who do you think you are? 1.00

02:21:03.000 More than any kind of right-wing organisation, they almost see us going, oh, jolly good!

02:21:10.000 Interesting.

02:21:12.000 People that I thought might be allies, organisations that I thought might be encouraging, were very condemnatory.

02:21:18.000 Well, you gotta realize, what is the mechanism that they're distributing this information with?

02:21:24.000 What are they doing?

02:21:25.000 They're writing their own stories, they're promoting their own blogs, they're doing their own radio shows, and, in fact, feeding their own ego, like we were talking about before. 0.98

02:21:34.000 That green monster of envy that sees this fucking guy with a beautiful bone structure and a beautiful accent, now all of a sudden he's philosophizing. 1.00

02:21:41.000 This piece of shit. 1.00

02:21:43.000 He had the wherewithal and the power to go on a sexual rampage, chose to back off of it, and realized he was like, all these fucking goddamn things he's got going for him, he's a fucking movie star? 1.00

02:21:53.000 Fuck this guy! 1.00

02:21:55.000 Fuck this guy, I'm tearing him down! 1.00

02:21:57.000 I'm tearing him down, honey, and he's sitting there with his potbelly, fucking taking his antidepressants, and tapping away mean shit on the keyboard, hoping. 1.00

02:22:06.000 I'm hoping that these mean words hit your mind and they enter into your consciousness and he can affect you in some sort of a horrible way. 1.00

02:22:13.000 Oh, God.

02:22:14.000 The extreme lack of compassion from some people on the left and the green light to attack this fact that, oh, here's this guy and I don't agree with him and I think that what he's doing is sex. 0.86

02:22:27.000 And it's misogynistic, and it's enabling, and let's get him! 1.00

02:22:32.000 We got a fucking target right on his back. 1.00

02:22:34.000 Attack! 1.00

02:22:34.000 Oh, he's doing press? 1.00

02:22:36.000 Oh, well, I'm gonna be involved in this press. 1.00

02:22:39.000 I'm gonna throw my fucking hat into the ring as the arbiter of intelligent ideas to dismay, or dismantle, rather, all these fucking stupid thoughts that this shithead with his perfect bone structure and man-bone is pumping out. 1.00

02:22:52.000 Fuck him! 1.00

02:22:54.000 Fuck him. 1.00

02:22:55.000 Professional wrestling. 1.00

02:22:56.000 Yeah.

02:22:56.000 Professional wrestling.

02:22:58.000 Well, it's people, man. 0.99

02:22:59.000 People jockeying for their own little fucking shining moment in the darkness. 0.99

02:23:04.000 Pizza Front. 0.99

02:23:05.000 See, I go conspiracy.

02:23:06.000 Pizza Front.

02:23:06.000 All right, here's what our magazine's about.

02:23:08.000 Conspiracy?

02:23:09.000 Is it conspiracy?

02:23:11.000 No.

02:23:11.000 It's just a thought.

02:23:12.000 Why does it have to be called conspiracy?

02:23:14.000 I think the word conspiracy is a conspiracy.

02:23:19.000 Well, that's deep.

02:23:21.000 You just cubed conspiracy.

02:23:24.000 You might be the best at this.

02:23:26.000 We're through the looking glass now.

02:23:28.000 But conspiracy in itself is a conspiracy. 1.00

02:23:31.000 Damn, he'd fucking shut it all down. 1.00

02:23:33.000 Shut it all down, he knows! 1.00

02:23:35.000 Yeah, I mean, there's definitely some real conspiracies, but I think that there's just a natural emphasis or a natural inclination to shit on people that are doing better than you or shit on people that have something good going on. 0.95

02:23:49.000 And also, when you're writing a story about something, how much fun is it writing a story that's positive? 0.85

02:23:54.000 And how much more satisfying is it to unhappy people to write a negative review about something?

02:24:01.000 It's much more exciting.

02:24:02.000 It's much more fun.

02:24:03.000 I've seen people distort people's ideas in really horrific ways because that's the old way.

02:24:08.000 Because the old way, you could write a blog about something or an article in a magazine or whatever about someone and distort it in horrible ways, and they really didn't have any recourse.

02:24:16.000 But that old way doesn't really work anymore.

02:24:19.000 It doesn't work.

02:24:20.000 Access because of media like this.

02:24:22.000 Sure.

02:24:23.000 So I'm thinking that I would like to start a podcast. 0.99

02:24:25.000 Fuck yeah! 0.99

02:24:26.000 You should definitely do one. 1.00

02:24:27.000 Dude, you've never done a podcast?

02:24:28.000 Yeah, do one in my country.

02:24:30.000 Oh my gosh, you can do it anywhere you go.

02:24:32.000 You can do it wherever you want.

02:24:33.000 Yeah, you can bring it everywhere with you.

02:24:34.000 You can do it whenever you want.

02:24:35.000 I've done them in Australia.

02:24:36.000 I've done them all over the world.

02:24:37.000 You can do it anywhere you want.

02:24:38.000 All you have to do is have a phone.

02:24:40.000 You can do it into your iPhone.

02:24:41.000 Exactly.

02:24:42.000 I just talk on my phone.

02:24:44.000 I just talk on my phone.

02:24:45.000 I like how you're dumping it.

02:24:46.000 You don't have to edit.

02:24:47.000 It's on your phone.

02:24:48.000 Your podcast is on your phone.

02:24:50.000 Dude, you're designed for this.

02:24:52.000 Yeah, you are.

02:24:53.000 And not only that, you don't even have to have a guest.

02:24:56.000 You can have a guest on if you want, but you don't.

02:24:58.000 You could have a guest on if you want, but like, Bill Burr is one of the best podcasts in the world, and Bill Burr just rants.

02:25:03.000 Unbelievable.

02:25:04.000 He rants for like, he'll just sit down for a fucking hour and a half and just go off about this and that, and it's a stream of consciousness. 1.00

02:25:11.000 He goes from football to his wife or his fucking dog and baking, and his internet sucks, and he's tired of construction workers, and his driveway's a piece of shit, and he just, he'll go on and on and on. 1.00

02:25:22.000 You could do that too. 0.99

02:25:22.000 What are your main things you've learned from doing this? 0.99

02:25:25.000 What are the main things you think, right, this is how you do a podcast?

02:25:28.000 What are the rules, the structures that you have learned?

02:25:33.000 Man, I've learned so much.

02:25:38.000 I've learned how other people perceive me.

02:25:40.000 I've learned how I perceive other people.

02:25:42.000 I've learned what maybe my own problems in perception are.

02:25:46.000 I've sort of tried to examine as many things as possible.

02:25:49.000 It's not a master course in human interaction for me.

02:25:51.000 That's what I've thought of it.

02:25:53.000 I mean, I've had 800-plus podcasts where I'm interacting with all sorts of different people.

02:25:58.000 So it's a...

02:25:59.000 It's a fascinating way to understand how people think and to just chunk data, just chunk data about how people react and talk and communicate.

02:26:09.000 How has it evolved from your original vision of doing podcasting to how it is now?

02:26:15.000 Have you become more free with it, less formulated?

02:26:18.000 Yeah, I don't think it was ever formulated, but I've been better at it.

02:26:21.000 I'm just better at it.

02:26:22.000 But when the podcast started out, I just wanted to figure out a way to do something.

02:26:28.000 Like, something free, where you're just doing it with a camera, or you're responding to Twitter questions, or just trying to...

02:26:36.000 My thought was, I've done a bunch of radio shows everywhere I go.

02:26:40.000 Everywhere I go, I promote a comedy gig, I do a morning show, I had a great time.

02:26:43.000 God, I would love to do one of those, but that was so much fun.

02:26:46.000 Like, I would love a radio show, but I don't want a boss. 0.96

02:26:47.000 And I was trying to figure out, how the fuck can I do this? 0.72

02:26:50.000 And then, doing Jim's show, and doing the Opie and Anthony show... 0.98

02:26:53.000 Opie and Anthony.

02:26:54.000 Yeah, it was the greatest.

02:26:55.000 It was the greatest.

02:26:56.000 Because when they were together, their show was a hang.

02:26:58.000 Like, if I could call Jim and I'd go, hey, I'm doing Opie and Anthony tomorrow morning. 0.99

02:27:03.000 He's like, fuck, I'm doing it too! 0.99

02:27:04.000 I'm like, oh, it's going to be so much fun. 1.00

02:27:06.000 And we would see each other and get a bagel in the morning and fucking high-five and go up there and just laugh. 0.93

02:27:11.000 Right, and you were able to do your own thing. 0.94

02:27:13.000 No one's trying to out, you know, it was...

02:27:16.000 That place taught me everything.

02:27:18.000 Yeah, it was a hang.

02:27:19.000 It was a hang.

02:27:20.000 Yes, that was the original hang.

02:27:22.000 I never heard anything like that.

02:27:23.000 Yeah, it was the only radio show that was a real hang, where you go in there and everybody's just hanging out.

02:27:27.000 And then Jim started doing his show, which is very similar.

02:27:30.000 When I could get to you, your show was a hang, too.

02:27:32.000 It was a hang, because I wanted that model.

02:27:34.000 Yeah.

02:27:35.000 I loved going into Opie and Anthony and just sitting down, and they're like, what's up, night?

02:27:39.000 You didn't have to be on.

02:27:41.000 Yeah.

02:27:41.000 They didn't like if you did bits.

02:27:42.000 Right.

02:27:43.000 They didn't want you coming.

02:27:43.000 Don't come in and do a bit.

02:27:45.000 Don't do a bit.

02:27:46.000 Just talk.

02:27:47.000 Yeah.

02:27:47.000 We wanted...

02:27:48.000 And that...

02:27:49.000 That goes probably what you went through, too.

02:27:52.000 What were you going to say, Russell?

02:27:53.000 Authenticity, then.

02:27:54.000 It's sort of about, like, being, trying to be, like, just being normal and being who you are.

02:27:59.000 Yeah.

02:27:59.000 And not imposing, like, right, coming right up in five seconds.

02:28:02.000 We've got to do the, you know, like, all of those things, like having a boss and having a structure and having, like, commercial interests that you constantly...

02:28:08.000 And you're an intelligent person and people like listening to the real you.

02:28:13.000 And you don't get that opportunity a whole lot.

02:28:16.000 They gave you that opportunity.

02:28:17.000 You're like, whoa, this is a whole different...

02:28:19.000 I never knew this side existed from this person.

02:28:22.000 I don't like this person's...

02:28:24.000 I'm sure people hate my... 1.00

02:28:25.000 Fucking Bruce talks. 0.99

02:28:27.000 But I like when he talks real. 0.99

02:28:30.000 So that opens up the opportunity for all of that.

02:28:34.000 It was...

02:28:36.000 I'm going to say it was like a revolution.

02:28:37.000 It was pretty intense.

02:28:39.000 I've been on their show, and I can see what you mean, that that was sort of part of the transition, and like Howard Stern, surely you would say as well, like someone that was...

02:28:46.000 For me, yeah.

02:28:47.000 Someone that was sort of pioneering what this medium is becoming.

02:28:50.000 Howard was absolutely the original.

02:28:52.000 Case closed.

02:28:53.000 He's the first.

02:28:53.000 He's the most important guy in the history of radio.

02:28:56.000 Because he was the first guy that got arrested or fined, rather.

02:28:59.000 I mean, he got in some serious legal problems because of the things that he was saying on the air.

02:29:03.000 And kept doing it.

02:29:05.000 And he was the original guy who would just be blatantly honest.

02:29:09.000 And he was the first real reality show.

02:29:12.000 He'd call his wife.

02:29:14.000 He would call.

02:29:15.000 Oh, the guy's working on the light.

02:29:17.000 Let me talk to him.

02:29:17.000 Let me talk to the guy.

02:29:18.000 And you say, like, he's going to talk.

02:29:19.000 God, I want to talk to the guy.

02:29:21.000 And he did all this on regular radio.

02:29:23.000 Right!

02:29:23.000 When no one was doing that and everybody was playing music.

02:29:26.000 They would have these little things that they would do and then they would play a song.

02:29:29.000 And he had to do that in the beginning.

02:29:30.000 He had to do the songs and he would make his humor in between the songs. 1.00

02:29:34.000 But eventually he was like, fuck these songs. 1.00

02:29:35.000 I'm just gonna be me and have a good time and talk shit. 1.00

02:29:39.000 And he figured out how to do it. 0.99

02:29:40.000 He was more rigid and structured.

02:29:42.000 Whereas Opie and Anthony, when they would have guests on like...

02:29:45.000 Like Brewer and I would be on, maybe Burr would be on, or some other people would be on, and we'd all be on together.

02:29:51.000 And we would just go in there and we would hang out.

02:29:53.000 And it was literally like the time would fly so fast.

02:29:56.000 It wasn't a matter of not having enough content.

02:29:59.000 It was like too much content, not enough time.

02:30:01.000 And Howard didn't have that.

02:30:02.000 It was almost like they wouldn't...

02:30:04.000 Howard didn't have that opportunity at the time, where he just came out in a different way.

02:30:09.000 And then once he went to the internet, I think that blew up to another hole.

02:30:15.000 That blew him up to an...

02:30:17.000 Everyone said, ah, you know, where is he now?

02:30:18.000 I think he's ten times, a hundred times bigger and more powerful.

02:30:22.000 At that point, it became...

02:30:23.000 He evolved in terms of content, or do you mean in terms of impact?

02:30:25.000 Everything.

02:30:26.000 For me, everything.

02:30:27.000 Everything.

02:30:28.000 Conversation, thought.

02:30:29.000 Well, as soon as things get on the internet, then they can spread freely.

02:30:32.000 So the merit of the conversation, what's interesting about the conversation, then it just gets passed around.

02:30:38.000 And as soon as things just get passed around like that, then someone calls them out.

02:30:41.000 Oh my God, you got to hear Jim Brewer.

02:30:42.000 He was on Howard Stern. 0.99

02:30:43.000 Holy shit, is it funny. 0.99

02:30:44.000 Have you heard it? 0.99

02:30:45.000 You got a link?

02:30:46.000 And they send you a link and bam.

02:30:47.000 And the beautiful thing about podcasts is someone could tell me, dude, Russell's got a podcast.

02:30:51.000 You got to check it out.

02:30:52.000 Oh, let me check it out.

02:30:53.000 And then you go on your iTunes app and you go, Russell.

02:30:56.000 There he is, bam!

02:30:58.000 And then you're playing it!

02:30:59.000 Like, in seconds, you're in your car and you're playing it, and it's free.

02:31:02.000 And now, if I just discovered you, I'm gonna go, I wanna hear more, I wanna hear, oh, you gotta listen to one of his first ones, where he wasn't even ready, he didn't know what he was doing, you gotta listen to where he went from here to here.

02:31:12.000 Once they're in, they're in, they love you, they know you, they feel like they're...

02:31:16.000 It's all exposed.

02:31:17.000 What experiences have you had that you've, like, were hard?

02:31:20.000 Or, like, you know, like, seeing because you've not got bosses or anything, was there ever times you've gone off, we should never have had that guy on, that was a mistake?

02:31:27.000 Yeah, just a couple minor ones.

02:31:28.000 Really?

02:31:29.000 Nothing serious.

02:31:30.000 Nothing anecdotal?

02:31:31.000 Nah, just weird conversations where you just kind of learn better about how to handle those moments.

02:31:37.000 It's almost like you're learning on the job, right?

02:31:40.000 It's like, I never did a radio show before.

02:31:42.000 I never just spoke.

02:31:44.000 Open and as a form of entertainment.

02:31:47.000 How arrogant.

02:31:47.000 Not just to think that you should be able to speak.

02:31:50.000 I mean, of course everybody should be able to speak.

02:31:51.000 But the fact that you think that your words are so interesting that other people are going to listen to them?

02:31:56.000 Instead of talking themselves, they're going to just listen to your talking? 0.99

02:31:59.000 Why the fuck would they do that? 0.99

02:32:00.000 They're not even there. 0.99

02:32:01.000 You know?

02:32:02.000 It's not like someone's right in front of you and you're talking to them and you're trying to be polite so you let them talk. 0.96

02:32:06.000 No, you're downloading their shit so you can listen to them talk and then you're not going to talk while they're talking. 0.93

02:32:12.000 Like, what? 1.00

02:32:12.000 This is madness. 1.00

02:32:13.000 Right.

02:32:14.000 So, in learning how to broadcast in air quotes, learning how to do that, you're kind of learning by feedback and also by listening to yourself and listening to other people's podcasts.

02:32:24.000 You'll see other, like, things that grate on you about what other people do.

02:32:28.000 What like?

02:32:29.000 Talking over people, that's a big one.

02:32:31.000 We all do it.

02:32:31.000 We all shouldn't, but we all have an idea that we want to get out.

02:32:35.000 We don't know when to do it.

02:32:36.000 It's hard to figure out because we're all freeballing when to jump in and when not to.

02:32:39.000 Also, some people don't listen to the things that other people say.

02:32:42.000 They just wait for their turn to talk.

02:32:44.000 That is a real issue.

02:32:45.000 That's a giant issue because then you ask them about what you just said and they're like, I wasn't listening.

02:32:50.000 Like, how can you not be listening when we're talking?

02:32:52.000 Like, this is, okay, well then now we're not really having a conversation.

02:32:55.000 We're just exchanging rants.

02:32:58.000 You know, and I'm waiting for you to get your completely non sequitur rant in and then you're gonna impress people with your quotes and how much you know about this guy or that guy and that's a real common thing is like using it as an ego springboard instead of looking at it in a podcast is really essentially a piece of art.

02:33:17.000 I mean, it's a grandiose term, but you're creating something.

02:33:21.000 And you want to create it the best way you can. 1.00

02:33:23.000 And you could fuck it up by being loud and stupid and saying a bunch of dumb shit that doesn't feel good to anybody to hear. 1.00

02:33:29.000 Or you could say some cool shit that when they listen to this podcast after it's over, they go, Fuck, that Russell Brand said something that's going to change the way I look at the rest of my fucking life. 1.00

02:33:38.000 And that's possible. 0.99

02:33:40.000 And that's one of the cool things.

02:33:41.000 Do you think that this is entirely like...

02:33:42.000 Do you think then this is entirely your authentic self?

02:33:45.000 Is there stuff that you withhold when you're in this situation?

02:33:49.000 Because I've come from more conventional media.

02:33:51.000 Private information about loved ones.

02:33:54.000 But that's it.

02:33:54.000 That's it.

02:33:55.000 I don't withhold anything.

02:33:57.000 I don't want anybody else's feelings to get hurt or things along those lines.

02:34:02.000 I've made those mistakes.

02:34:03.000 Have you?

02:34:07.000 It's not their choice.

02:34:11.000 You have to withhold certain things.

02:34:14.000 And some people just want to be private people. 0.99

02:34:16.000 They don't want to have any part of your fucking parade, you weirdo, out there talking to the world every day. 0.96

02:34:22.000 Have you had any negative consequences as a result? 0.99

02:34:28.000 Because you have to work in other industries and all of that?

02:34:30.000 Is that only positive? 0.99

02:34:33.000 I don't give a fuck, so it doesn't really matter. 1.00

02:34:35.000 Yeah, I feel like if you have fuck you money, you don't say fuck you, you're wasting fuck you money. 1.00

02:34:40.000 So if I have some real thoughts and I don't express them because I'm worried about job opportunities, like I'm already in prison, whether I like it or not. 1.00

02:34:49.000 If there's something important that I have to say, and then the jobs that you do get or the employment opportunities that you do get, they'll be looking for your authentic self.

02:34:57.000 Unless it's some, like, the same sort of situation with some crazy woman who likes to take some guy and change him. 1.00

02:35:02.000 Oh, he's a fixer-upper. 0.99

02:35:03.000 Like, they're not going to grab you and go, I know this Russell Brand is talking a lot of crazy revolution type shit. 0.97

02:35:08.000 Once we get him in the network, we put him in a nice suit. 0.98

02:35:10.000 Uh-huh.

02:35:11.000 He's gonna be the best talk show host ever.

02:35:14.000 He's the future Jimmy Fallon.

02:35:16.000 And at the end of the day, yes, if it comes to entertainment, you're a number.

02:35:20.000 So it doesn't even matter what you say, they believe it or not believe it, and you get these people, it doesn't matter.

02:35:24.000 I think we should put him in this movie, because he's worth...

02:35:27.000 This much!

02:35:28.000 And think of, we'll make this much, and this many people automatically buy tickets because his following is...

02:35:35.000 You almost start controlling your own destiny.

02:35:38.000 But hasn't that happened as a result?

02:35:39.000 Haven't you got...

02:35:40.000 Hasn't things happened to you? 1.00

02:35:41.000 It's like, fuck me, that podcast is powerful! 1.00

02:35:44.000 I... I don't... 1.00

02:35:46.000 Well...

02:35:47.000 What do you mean? 0.98

02:35:47.000 Like having someone gone, why don't we put fucking Joe Rogan in this action movie? 0.98

02:35:51.000 He's got a fucking massive... 0.99

02:35:53.000 Yeah, but I don't... 0.99

02:35:54.000 I'm not interested in doing anything.

02:35:56.000 I'm interested in doing less things.

02:35:58.000 I'm not interested in anything new.

02:36:00.000 I don't want to do any movies.

02:36:02.000 I like doing stuff that has nothing to do with work.

02:36:04.000 I like doing yoga, and I like doing archery.

02:36:06.000 I like writing comedy.

02:36:08.000 I like performing stand-up.

02:36:09.000 I like doing podcasts.

02:36:11.000 I like just doing stuff.

02:36:13.000 I don't want to do someone else's stuff.

02:36:15.000 If some movie came along and it was really interesting, and for whatever reason, it was a short amount of time I would have to work, I would consider it.

02:36:22.000 But I've passed on a lot of stuff.

02:36:23.000 I just don't have any interest in it.

02:36:24.000 You've taken control of your life through this.

02:36:27.000 Yeah, well, I'm doing what I actually want to do instead of when, you know, and Jim and I were in a pilot for the very first TV show that I did in 1993, and we've been friends for longer before that, way long before that, but...

02:36:42.000 You come here and you think, now I'm going to do this project.

02:36:46.000 Oh boy, I'm in.

02:36:48.000 I'm on a TV show.

02:36:49.000 And then you get on the TV show and you go, you know what?

02:36:52.000 I don't even like this that much.

02:36:53.000 I like doing stand-up.

02:36:55.000 Why am I doing this?

02:36:55.000 But you're doing this because they keep coming to you.

02:36:57.000 Like, hey, we've got a game show and they're going to eat animal dicks and you're going to shoot them out of a rocket. 0.99

02:37:01.000 What do you think? 0.99

02:37:02.000 And you're like, I'm in.

02:37:03.000 It's on TV? I'm in.

02:37:04.000 That's what I'm here for. 0.96

02:37:05.000 And the money's real fucking good. 0.95

02:37:07.000 And you do it after a while and you go, hey, you know, that's not what I enjoy doing. 0.86

02:37:10.000 What do I actually enjoy doing?

02:37:11.000 Well, I'm just trying to do the things I enjoy doing.

02:37:14.000 What I enjoy doing, I like doing podcasts.

02:37:17.000 I like doing stand-up.

02:37:18.000 I like doing all those extracurricular things that I do.

02:37:21.000 The things that I do that are just interests in life.

02:37:24.000 And then I don't want to differentiate between interests that I do for financial gain or interests that I do for mental exercises or for spiritual growth or whatever.

02:37:32.000 I just want to do things that I enjoy doing.

02:37:35.000 That's really important, isn't it?

02:37:36.000 You get sucked over in life and so many people don't have that kind of freedom creatively or on any level.

02:37:42.000 The freedom of, I just want, that should be part of more people's experience of life.

02:37:46.000 Yeah.

02:37:47.000 I'm happy doing this.

02:37:49.000 Yeah.

02:37:49.000 It makes me, like, it's really beautiful to hear that, that what you're led by is joy because that is another Joseph Campbell thing.

02:37:55.000 Follow your bliss.

02:37:56.000 Find the thing in you that you're connected to and follow it.

02:37:58.000 And when I think of how many times in my life I've lived out other people's ideas, as you say, like, oh, right, no, this is, Hold on a minute.

02:38:05.000 This is what I'm supposed to do.

02:38:07.000 Again, like Bill Hicks says, look at my money.

02:38:09.000 This has to be real.

02:38:11.000 It has to be real.

02:38:12.000 Because you're bombarded with it and then you realise, oh my God.

02:38:15.000 So if you are lucky enough to get to a position where you can just do things that you enjoy.

02:38:19.000 Do you think that idea that you've applied to your own creative lives can be applied if you're... 0.99

02:38:26.000 Fucking living a normal life and you're trapped in a job that you don't fucking like. 0.98

02:38:31.000 How do you think you get out of that situation? 1.00

02:38:33.000 Well, I think it's like everything else.

02:38:35.000 It takes small baby steps to move out.

02:38:38.000 You've got to move towards that direction.

02:38:40.000 You have to have an absolute game plan and you have to have an actual thing that you enjoy doing.

02:38:44.000 Like, say if you're some guy that's trapped in some job, but, you know, like, to bring up something we talked about before, you enjoy making homemade knives, and you think, you know, I would love to just be able to make arts and crafts, to be able to create something that people buy, maybe pottery or something along those lines that would really feel,

02:39:00.000 like, spiritually and creatively satisfying to me, to be able to express myself in an art form.

02:39:07.000 To do that for a living would be amazing.

02:39:09.000 And there's a lot of people that start off in regular jobs and they figure out a way to get to that place.

02:39:14.000 And it's not easy. 0.99

02:39:15.000 And people will fucking bitch and moan at you and tell you how not easy it is. 0.99

02:39:19.000 Yeah, you're saying it's making it seem like it's easy. 1.00

02:39:21.000 It's not easy.

02:39:22.000 A lot of us have problems.

02:39:23.000 We got mortgages and children and I need a health care package and...

02:39:28.000 Everybody has resistance.

02:39:30.000 There's always resistance to anything that you're trying to achieve in life, and everybody's setup might be different.

02:39:35.000 Everybody's needs and requirements might be different.

02:39:39.000 They're all different.

02:39:40.000 But if you find whatever the fuck it is that you can do, I guarantee you, you have some time in your day that you can dedicate towards making that a reality.

02:39:49.000 It's a matter of making that time a priority to try to change your current state of existence. 0.66

02:39:55.000 How do you do it?

02:39:56.000 I don't know.

02:39:57.000 I don't know what your existence is, and I can't tell you anyway. 0.73

02:39:59.000 Because the way I do things and the way you do things is fucking totally different.

02:40:03.000 Everyone's gonna do things different. 0.89

02:40:05.000 I'm a kamikaze person. 0.98

02:40:06.000 I'm like, let's fucking cut ties, pull the chute, let's go! 0.99

02:40:10.000 I'm like, let's get out of here, let's quit, you know? 0.99

02:40:12.000 But I've always been like that. 0.99

02:40:13.000 I've always been the burn the fucking house down, you have to make another one. 0.99

02:40:17.000 My thought has been just abandon ship. 1.00

02:40:20.000 Let's get out of here and find the fucking new thing. 1.00

02:40:23.000 But you can't do that when you have a wife and children. 0.98

02:40:26.000 Luckily for me, when I was young and taking crazy chances and moving towards a career and doing something I actually wanted to do, I didn't have anybody else that counted on me.

02:40:35.000 Once you do, it becomes much more difficult, but not insurmountable and completely dependent upon what it is you're trying to achieve.

02:40:43.000 I like that.

02:40:44.000 Well, you could start good, Russ.

02:40:45.000 Well, I was going to say, how do you bridge it?

02:40:50.000 Like I said that thing to Tom Cruise that time of being born with that drive, being born with that knowledge of I'm going to do this.

02:40:57.000 Because I identify with that crash and burn thing, and it's been problematic in my life with relationships and stuff. 0.99

02:41:01.000 I've got a survival instinct in me that's like, right, this is fucking mad. 0.97

02:41:05.000 I'm out. 0.98

02:41:06.000 But that's good.

02:41:08.000 Right. 1.00

02:41:10.000 How many people fucking stay and get tortured? 0.99

02:41:13.000 Right, yeah, yeah. 0.99

02:41:14.000 And they're happy when that heart attack comes. 1.00

02:41:16.000 Finally I get away from this cunt! 1.00

02:41:18.000 Goodbye forever! 1.00

02:41:20.000 You fucking bitch, I hope you're happy. 1.00

02:41:25.000 See, my thing is that I would like more people in the world to have that opportunity. 1.00

02:41:32.000 It makes me sad that people will be listening to this thinking, I fucking want that. 0.99

02:41:35.000 I want to make my fucking art and craft knives. 0.99

02:41:38.000 If you've not got a place for that in your life, then like you were saying, then you were in prison. 1.00

02:41:42.000 You're fucking fucked anyway. 0.99

02:41:44.000 And there are certain systemic changes that could be brought about that would mean that more people would have that opportunity. 1.00

02:41:50.000 That's the other thing that makes me sad.

02:41:51.000 What's systemic changes?

02:41:52.000 What I mean is that if we didn't have a culture that was entirely dominated by one economic idea, that more people would be able to sit around making art and crafts.

02:42:00.000 Think of the things that keep coming up again and again in this conversation.

02:42:02.000 People should live in small tribes. 1.00

02:42:04.000 Why the fuck are we not trying to do that shit now? 1.00

02:42:07.000 Why are we not going? 1.00

02:42:09.000 Another word for tribe is Soviet, and people did have a go at that.

02:42:13.000 It went terribly, terribly wrong.

02:42:15.000 But what I'm saying is that these kind of ideas, I mean, look now.

02:42:20.000 I wonder if that's the template.

02:42:22.000 What's the next level of this?

02:42:24.000 It's like, right, well, let's try and work on that then.

02:42:26.000 Let's try and bring some of these ideas like you have as an individual.

02:42:29.000 Like, can this be collectivised?

02:42:32.000 Can this be brought forward? 0.95

02:42:33.000 So that more people, like, you know, do you take that leap of faith that, fuck me, if we did get 150 people together, of course there's going to be problems and challenges. 0.99

02:42:40.000 There's problems and fucking challenges now. 0.98

02:42:41.000 We're not competing with perfection, we're competing with a defunct system that's really causing a great deal of negativity and problems. 0.96

02:42:48.000 What would happen if people did start to try and create alternatives? 0.72

02:42:51.000 I tell you what would happen, you'd be killed.

02:42:53.000 No, I don't think you...

02:42:55.000 You don't think so?

02:42:55.000 No, I don't think there's any...

02:42:56.000 You don't think you'd be Waco'd right out if you went, right, we're setting up a system, 150 people, this is our new podcast experiment, we're setting up a utopia.

02:43:03.000 Only when you become a threat, and you have to become a threat financially, or you have to become a threat militarily. 0.98

02:43:09.000 One of the things about these fucking Waco type dudes, they always gather guns. 0.99

02:43:13.000 They fuck everybody's wives and they have a stockpile of ammunition. 1.00

02:43:18.000 Then you become a threat! 1.00

02:43:19.000 David, what's the stockpile of guns and the fucking everyone's wives thing? 1.00

02:43:23.000 Oh no, just focus on the Jesus. 0.99

02:43:25.000 It's Jesus.

02:43:25.000 That's how Jesus rules.

02:43:27.000 Right.

02:43:28.000 Once you become a threat.

02:43:29.000 And that's the only way...

02:43:30.000 Violence is the only real threat.

02:43:32.000 It's also dangerous.

02:43:33.000 You don't think it's a threat to expound those ideas and spread those ideas? 0.99

02:43:38.000 It's controversial, but I don't think anybody looks at it and says, you know what, this motherfucker is going to take money out of my bank account. 0.94

02:43:44.000 I think people are so engrossed in their own life, in their own progress, in their own path of conquering. 0.97

02:43:51.000 I don't think they think about it that way unless you cross them. 0.98

02:43:54.000 Unless you say, you know what, goddammit, this Rupert Murdoch is fucking up the world and I'm going to expose him and I'm going to let the world... 0.96

02:44:00.000 Then you've created an issue. 0.97

02:44:02.000 Then you've gone into battle with a man with unfathomable resources.

02:44:07.000 I tried that.

02:44:12.000 How'd that work out?

02:44:13.000 Not good, Joe.

02:44:19.000 Now see here, Lord Vader.

02:44:23.000 I'm a bit bloody sick of all this.

02:44:25.000 You see his wife? 0.98

02:44:26.000 He's got a hot wife. 0.81

02:44:27.000 Of course he has.

02:44:28.000 Amazing.

02:44:28.000 I love how stereotypes just play themselves out over and over and over.

02:44:31.000 Ellie Donald Trump's wife, I go, that's what I like to see.

02:44:34.000 There you go.

02:44:35.000 I like to see the same thing over and over again.

02:44:38.000 I'm tapping out.

02:44:38.000 I'm in pain.

02:44:39.000 I gotta pee.

02:44:39.000 Go ahead, man.

02:44:40.000 No worries.

02:44:41.000 Yeah, I think one of the things McKenna said that always resonated with me is that so many people do the man's work for the man.

02:44:50.000 And they're so worried about the repercussions of being free or expressing themselves or discussing psychedelics.

02:44:56.000 They do the man's work for the man. 0.73

02:44:58.000 By not...

02:44:59.000 By being scared.

02:45:01.000 ...unshackling themselves, ourselves.

02:45:03.000 And expressing yourself in a way that makes sense.

02:45:06.000 You know, like, I think one of the things that's most interesting about McKenna's lectures, where he was in sort of the infancy of the internet, where he did a lot of them, is he expressed himself in a way that's kind of really similar to, like, podcast rants.

02:45:20.000 But way before their time.

02:45:22.000 He was doing it in front of these groups of people, and someone recorded it.

02:45:25.000 So he would have these meetings.

02:45:26.000 You know, the people come to hear him speak, and he would have these meetings, and a lot of times he would open up the room for questions, and he would just sort of rant.

02:45:35.000 And, you know, he was a consummate consumer of cannabis. 0.98

02:45:38.000 So he's high as fuck, and he's having these bizarre conversations, these rants, where he's exploring these ideas, and he got better and better and better at them all throughout these rants. 0.99

02:45:49.000 When he's doing these, he's essentially doing a podcast that takes a long time to hear. 0.99

02:45:54.000 Do you think of him as sort of a modern, secular prophet? 0.95

02:45:59.000 Because if you've been into the comedy of Bill Hicks and then you listen to Terence McKenna, you can see, like, oh, fuck, he's clearly influenced Hicks. 0.98

02:46:07.000 Oh, yeah. 0.94

02:46:07.000 Well, the way I found out about McKenna was through a Hicks bit. 0.94

02:46:11.000 Because Hicks had this bit about what he said, what Terrence McKenna would describe as a heroic dose of mushrooms. 0.98

02:46:19.000 So I was like, who the fuck is Terrence McKenna? 0.98

02:46:21.000 And this was, you know, the 90s when I heard this. 0.99

02:46:24.000 So I'd seen Hicks live a couple times, three or four times, I guess, in Boston.

02:46:30.000 What was that like?

02:46:32.000 It was amazing.

02:46:32.000 First time I saw him, it was an accident.

02:46:35.000 First time I saw him I went to see some comedians that were like local Boston guys and Hicks had come in from out of town and I don't know if he was supposed to be there the next night or what it was but no one was there to see him they didn't know who he was and he went up on stage And was just so weird.

02:46:59.000 He was doing this bit about Tiffany meeting Jimi Hendrix at the mall.

02:47:03.000 You know, like this music that they're promoting, this pop culture bullshit music. 0.93

02:47:08.000 And he was at the Comedy Connection in Boston. 0.93

02:47:12.000 I think I saw him there first, and I saw him at Nick's and a couple other places.

02:47:16.000 But he was doing some new thing.

02:47:19.000 I was like, okay, this is a new kind of comedy.

02:47:21.000 This is like Sam Kinison, but...

02:47:24.000 With like much more of an emphasis on the realization that the patterns that we're all following into, whether it's pop culture patterns or that these things are actually detrimental.

02:47:35.000 These things are a foolish way to approach this world.

02:47:38.000 This world is incredibly complex and we can all look at it together. 0.82

02:47:41.000 And I was like, this is a new kind of comedy.

02:47:44.000 How was it going down in there?

02:47:46.000 Really good and really bad.

02:47:48.000 I saw him bomb horribly, but bomb with grace that I've never achieved. 0.99

02:47:54.000 He bombed like he didn't give a fuck about bombing. 0.79

02:47:57.000 I've never been able to do that. 0.97

02:47:58.000 He bombed like a guy who almost knew the future, knew he was going to have some sort of an impact on the culture, and knew that this was just a footnote in that incredibly impactful experience on the art form of stand-up comedy, and also knew that eventually he'd find his own audience, which he did not have at the time.

02:48:14.000 Because he was at a small comedy club, Nick's Comedy Stop in Boston, which is a couple hundred people.

02:48:19.000 And there was a guy who went on before him who was a real hack. 0.99

02:48:23.000 Nice guy, but just hacky, hacky, bullshit, cop donut jokes, that kind of shit. 0.99

02:48:28.000 Just everything you've already heard before. 1.00

02:48:30.000 Nothing original.

02:48:31.000 And he was killing. 1.00

02:48:33.000 Killing with all this simple stupid shit and then Hicks went on afterwards with this like really bizarre Interpretation of modern civilization ever is like fuck this guy and people were getting up and leaving in droves and Kept going through the whole thing and me and Greg Fitzsimmons was there and a bunch of other comedians watching him bomb were laughing our asses off so he was Playing to the back of the room, 1.00

02:48:56.000 the comedians that were still there laughing were laughing hard in support, but people were getting up in giant chunks and leaving. 1.00

02:49:02.000 At the end of the show, you know, the show was whittled down from like 250 people to like 40 people in 15 or 20 comics.

02:49:09.000 That was all that was left, and we were howling, laughing.

02:49:12.000 And he got off stage like nothing happened.

02:49:14.000 He would not compromise.

02:49:16.000 No.

02:49:16.000 He was an interesting guy.

02:49:18.000 So that's what he kicks you off into the McKenna realm.

02:49:22.000 Yeah, he's the one who introduced me to McKenna by that joke, just by saying that.

02:49:26.000 And then in hearing Hicks' references, there was a few other guys that he sort of referenced their ideas, like Noam Chomsky was another one.

02:49:35.000 One of the things that Hicks was famous for saying was actually a Chomsky line, was about the Iraq War, that it's only really a war when two armies are fighting.

02:49:46.000 That's a direct Chomsky quote.

02:49:47.000 It is.

02:49:51.000 I don't want to say it's plagiarism, because I bet if you asked him, he would tell you it's a Noam Chomsky quote.

02:49:57.000 But he was introducing that concept and that idea to these people through the world of stand-up comedy.

02:50:03.000 And then from there, he expanded on that with all of his material about the Iraq War and all the new weapons that they're doing.

02:50:11.000 Farming equipment.

02:50:12.000 Yeah.

02:50:13.000 And that Shane bit.

02:50:15.000 And I think you give him that because the stuff he was doing was so innovative and incredible and funny.

02:50:23.000 Say you look to Kinison or Lenny Bruce before that.

02:50:29.000 From what I've experienced of them, and I'm not by any means an authority, Bill Hicks did make it more densely humorous.

02:50:37.000 Maybe not when you see him live on that, but by the time he was recording specials and stuff.

02:50:41.000 Oh, sure.

02:50:41.000 Also, I've always thought that Bill Hicks was extremely refined and honed work, wasn't it?

02:50:48.000 You can see incarnations of the same content many, many times with him.

02:50:54.000 At least in the stuff that I saw, because I've only ever seen him record stuff, he wasn't doing lots of spontaneity.

02:51:02.000 They were beautiful, very articulate pieces of work.

02:51:06.000 Yeah.

02:51:07.000 And sometimes they didn't even make people laugh.

02:51:09.000 You know, I watched it with this girl I was dating at the time in like 1993-ish, something like that.

02:51:15.000 And she was like, yeah, he's not really funny, but he's really fascinating to listen to.

02:51:20.000 Like she didn't find like some of the things he was saying were funny.

02:51:23.000 But I think that was also the Revelation show, which he filmed in London, which was one of those weird shows where you're doing an HBO special and you have one show ready go.

02:51:33.000 And there's some weird pressure that's involved with that and it doesn't necessarily always come off loose and like the feeling that you see him when he's at a club where he's expressing himself in a much more free way.

02:51:47.000 I felt that a lot of his comedy high points across his content came from his ability to do characterisation.

02:51:55.000 He'd do a long bit that used to be like, oh my god, this guy's just hitting me with data.

02:51:59.000 But when he said, I believe God created me in one day, those things were always like, ah!

02:52:04.000 Looks like you rushed it.

02:52:09.000 I think he does let you off.

02:52:11.000 I think that Revelations was the first thing that I ever saw of his when I was a kid.

02:52:17.000 When he does the marketing rants, I couldn't believe his sincerity. 0.91

02:52:26.000 I couldn't believe that someone would hit you with that much heart, quit putting a dollar sign on every damn thing on this planet.

02:52:31.000 That someone would talk, that someone meant it. 0.85

02:52:34.000 That was from the heart.

02:52:36.000 Yeah.

02:52:37.000 Yeah, well, it resonated.

02:52:38.000 Whenever something resonates and stays...

02:52:41.000 I mean, it's also...

02:52:42.000 There's so much mythology involved in him now because he's passed on and he died young and we always sit back and wonder, like, what would it be like if that guy was alive today?

02:52:50.000 You know?

02:52:51.000 He didn't have the outlet then.

02:52:52.000 Yeah.

02:52:53.000 Where that's...

02:52:53.000 Again, now you can go back and look at a guy like that because it's there.

02:52:58.000 But back then, you weren't ready to handle that.

02:53:00.000 Who was talking like that?

02:53:02.000 I'm coming to Comedy Club.

02:53:03.000 I want to...

02:53:03.000 I want to laugh.

02:53:04.000 I don't want to think tonight.

02:53:06.000 I got my date. 1.00

02:53:07.000 I don't want to hear this shit. 1.00

02:53:09.000 What? 1.00

02:53:10.000 You know?

02:53:11.000 What were you saying?

02:53:12.000 Kinnison opened the door for Hicks because he was one of the outlaws.

02:53:16.000 And Kinnison had a lot of bits that were like that, but...

02:53:19.000 They were more humor-based than point of view-based.

02:53:22.000 Like, he had points of view, but the points of view had to be really funny.

02:53:25.000 Whereas Hicks had a lot of points of view that was like, there's gotta be a way to introduce these ideas into people in the form of stand-up comedy that maybe not even aren't that funny, but are very important.

02:53:36.000 Whereas, like, Kinison was, everything was, I mean, he had some ridiculously funny bits, and he did it in this totally unapologetic way that I think Hicks kind of absorbed.

02:53:46.000 And when I first saw Hicks, it was one of the things, he had a lot of Kinison in him.

02:53:50.000 Like, we all have influences, and when we're starting out, we, like, you hear other comedians that you really love come out of your own mouth, almost like with the intonations and the inflections, and you almost kind of mimic them in your delivery.

02:54:06.000 And Hicks did a lot of that.

02:54:08.000 When I first saw him, he was doing a lot of Kinnison.

02:54:11.000 And it was interesting.

02:54:13.000 It's like, this guy's clearly influenced.

02:54:15.000 You don't know whether or not he was influenced by Kinnison or Kinnison was influenced by Hicks, but most likely it's probably a little bit of both, but more Kinnison than anything.

02:54:24.000 Because Kinnison...

02:54:25.000 Was much more successful earlier on, like several years before Hicks really took off and was revolutionary.

02:54:32.000 When Kinison came on the scene, he was completely revolutionary.

02:54:36.000 So I think him taking Hicks with him, you know, because they were part of that Houston group that originally expanded and then came to LA, I think he just showed that there's just some undeniable power in being that controversial but on point.

02:54:51.000 Because stand-up is one of the original American art form, isn't it?

02:54:56.000 It's precedent prior to being in the United States.

02:55:01.000 That art form didn't exist in the same way.

02:55:04.000 It's got gestures and musical.

02:55:07.000 It didn't exist.

02:55:07.000 We can exist in that kind of way.

02:55:11.000 Podcasting is a very natural medium for a comedian because it grants you that long form.

02:55:16.000 I've always thought that the more...

02:55:19.000 It can be that the more truthful you are and the more articulate it becomes, the more you reduce your audience. 0.97

02:55:25.000 When you think of hitting up rooms of 2,500 people or 5,000 arena gigs, if you want to go in and wade in there with fucking Noam Chomsky bloody quotes... 0.99

02:55:36.000 You better have a dick joke to finish with. 0.99

02:55:39.000 Exactly. 0.99

02:55:40.000 You've got to have some way to connect those things with humour.

02:55:43.000 Almost like scaffolding in between ideas.

02:55:47.000 Yeah.

02:55:48.000 That's the thing I think about keeping the ball above a certain level.

02:55:52.000 In a way, this medium, you are relieved of that.

02:55:54.000 You are allowed, it's like, Yeah.

02:55:56.000 Just sit back for a while, listen for ages.

02:55:59.000 The aspect of comedy that I think is so important of authenticity, you know, when you're a start-up comic, people go, oh, you've got to find your voice, you've got to find your authenticity.

02:56:08.000 And like you were saying, that you hear the musicality of comedians you admire in your own voice.

02:56:13.000 When you're doing five-minute sets or tens or twits, it's extremely difficult, isn't it, to become robust enough with that.

02:56:21.000 But here, I guess, you get to...

02:56:22.000 Really explore what you are authentically in a kind of a long, safe form.

02:56:27.000 Especially 10-minute sets, those little short sets you do, you can get a bit out or a series of funny things that you can say.

02:56:36.000 But as far as any real depth, and part of what comes out that's really funny is if you watch someone like Jim Part of what his comedy is, is you'll understand after you see him for 15 or 20 minutes, this is how he makes fun of things.

02:56:49.000 This is his personality.

02:56:50.000 So you kind of get his vibe.

02:56:52.000 And then another subject comes up, and you're laughing before he even starts talking about it, because you're kind of following where he's going to take this.

02:57:00.000 Yeah, you've signed up to that.

02:57:01.000 Oh, I enjoy this perspective now.

02:57:03.000 You tuned in.

02:57:03.000 Yeah, you tuned into his perspective.

02:57:05.000 Kinison was a huge influence.

02:57:07.000 Yeah.

02:57:07.000 I loved Kinison.

02:57:09.000 Yeah.

02:57:09.000 Why?

02:57:11.000 He was the first...

02:57:13.000 Hands down, he was revolutionary.

02:57:14.000 It was like seeing Metallica for the first time.

02:57:17.000 Like, what?

02:57:17.000 Look at the way these people are reacting.

02:57:20.000 I never saw an audience, a comedy audience. 0.77

02:57:24.000 He made them nuts.

02:57:27.000 He made them almost want to go in a mosh pit.

02:57:30.000 And...

02:57:31.000 No, I don't think...

02:57:33.000 Carlin would dance around being Catholic and kind of expose things, but not...

02:57:39.000 I mean, Kennison comes out and he just, in a biblical way...

02:57:44.000 I thought I... My mom tried to make me go to church and make me a good person.

02:57:49.000 I learned more...

02:57:51.000 About biblical and just how common sense wise, listening to him.

02:57:55.000 He made me think about it.

02:57:57.000 He'd come out like, you know, Jesus is never married.

02:57:59.000 No wife is going to buy the resurrection. 1.00

02:58:02.000 And he'd go into this whole thing about, he leaves on a Friday.

02:58:05.000 He's with 10 of his friends.

02:58:06.000 His wife is pissed. 1.00

02:58:08.000 Where's all those losers that call themselves disciples? 0.99

02:58:12.000 Everyone that says, I believe, I believe, we put up and feed them. 0.99

02:58:14.000 I'm sick of it!

02:58:16.000 And I sat there and went, holy...

02:58:18.000 Dude, the common sense of this is...

02:58:20.000 Why doesn't anyone talk about the common sense of this?

02:58:23.000 He just put it balls out there.

02:58:25.000 He can get away with it because he was a preacher.

02:58:28.000 And he knew the Bible.

02:58:29.000 And he knew everything about it.

02:58:31.000 And he would sit there and he comes home on Monday. 1.00

02:58:34.000 He looks like shit. 1.00

02:58:35.000 There's dirt all over his face. 1.00

02:58:36.000 And he sees his cross out on the lawn.

02:58:39.000 And she's like, where you been, Mr. Savior?

02:58:41.000 Yeah.

02:58:42.000 He says, well, I don't have nothing, but I was dead!

02:58:46.000 I'm fighting death!

02:58:48.000 Decomposure! 0.69

02:58:48.000 I'm in the spiritual world, and I gotta get back, because she don't know where I've been! 0.69

02:58:52.000 And then he went into this whole thing about, oh, they doctored this whole Last Supper.

02:58:57.000 Like, Jesus, me, am I gonna betray you? 1.00

02:59:01.000 And he'd say, oh, suck my dick! 1.00

02:59:03.000 You know who the fuck you are! 1.00

02:59:06.000 Oh, we can't write that. 1.00

02:59:08.000 We'll say, drink of this blood and...

02:59:10.000 But just the common...

02:59:13.000 He dumbed it down to and made me really think about that one.

02:59:17.000 Yeah, this is...

02:59:19.000 It's also like we said about Metallica, the force of his delivery was unprecedented.

02:59:24.000 No one had yelled out punchlines before, the way he did it.

02:59:27.000 You married?

02:59:28.000 Yeah.

02:59:28.000 You were?

02:59:29.000 You married?

02:59:29.000 I'll hold you back two years.

02:59:31.000 Good.

02:59:31.000 Remember this face.

02:59:32.000 Ah!

02:59:33.000 No one came at you like that.

02:59:36.000 But it was more than schtick.

02:59:38.000 It was freaking hilarious.

02:59:40.000 And it made a lot of sense.

02:59:42.000 They talk about the devil coming down and teaching you.

02:59:47.000 It was sick.

02:59:49.000 I remember him talking about...

02:59:51.000 Well, you said becoming famous. 0.98

02:59:53.000 Because you know how fucking hard it is? 0.99

02:59:54.000 You finish your show. 0.99

02:59:56.000 You're trying to stay married.

02:59:57.000 She comes up...

02:59:58.000 I want to strike your day. 1.00

03:00:00.000 No one will ever know if I got two fingers in your ass and me and my friends will fucking fuck you too. 1.00

03:00:05.000 You can't even fucking breathe. 1.00

03:00:06.000 And then you go home to your wife, no one will ever know. 0.99

03:00:08.000 Like, you know what?

03:00:10.000 You know, I'm married.

03:00:11.000 She's on her period.

03:00:12.000 And we're in the middle of a really difficult time.

03:00:14.000 But thank you.

03:00:15.000 Thanks for the effort! 0.99

03:00:16.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

03:00:20.000 Yeah, he was a real wild man. 0.99

03:00:23.000 He was like, he introduced rock and roll sensibilities to comedy.

03:00:27.000 That's what I was attracted to.

03:00:28.000 Yeah.

03:00:29.000 That whole rock, crazy, loud energy.

03:00:32.000 Well, he was also so different than everything else at the time, which was like the roll your sleeves up.

03:00:36.000 You know, did you ever notice?

03:00:38.000 You know, ever notice, hmm, how come when you get a cup of coffee?

03:00:41.000 You know, there was like this sort of observational comedy boom back then, and he came along with this roaring monster.

03:00:48.000 Yeah.

03:00:49.000 His first bit ever on TV ever, I think, was the African bit, which was huge here.

03:00:56.000 Please, help these poor children.

03:00:58.000 Help these poor children.

03:00:59.000 And he comes out, and he's gone, I'm sick and tired of seeing these commercials.

03:01:06.000 Trying to make you feel guilty.

03:01:07.000 You're sitting there watching.

03:01:09.000 How can You sit there in your air-conditioned room, heat, and your cupboard full of food. 0.97

03:01:15.000 What kind of sick? 1.00

03:01:16.000 Fuck! 1.00

03:01:17.000 Give him a dollar! 1.00

03:01:18.000 And then he goes into the whole thing.

03:01:19.000 Don't send them another thing. 1.00

03:01:21.000 They live in a fucking desert! 1.00

03:01:24.000 Don't send him money. 1.00

03:01:25.000 Send him someone like me.

03:01:26.000 Send him someone like me.

03:01:27.000 Someone's gonna go there.

03:01:29.000 I've come here 500 miles and we realized we wouldn't have to travel this far if you people live where the food is!

03:01:36.000 Come here!

03:01:37.000 You live in a desert!

03:01:38.000 Come here!

03:01:39.000 Taste it!

03:01:40.000 It's sand!

03:01:41.000 You know what it's gonna be a hundred years from now? 1.00

03:01:42.000 Fuckin' sand! 0.99

03:01:44.000 We got deserts in America too! 1.00

03:01:45.000 We just don't live in them, asshole! 1.00

03:01:48.000 Two trits! 1.00

03:01:49.000 Get the trucks! 1.00

03:01:50.000 Get you the fuck out of the desert! 1.00

03:01:53.000 And that was one of the best examples like people always like this is a fucking trend now but good comedy should always punch up Comedy should always punch up bullshit bullshit bullshit nonsense comedy should be comedy It's it's it's just like rap music or fucking gangster movies. 1.00

03:02:09.000 It's indecipherable You cannot decide what's funny and what's not funny and that is one of the best examples of it that African bit. 1.00

03:02:16.000 Oh Huge.

03:02:18.000 Roars.

03:02:20.000 It's simple.

03:02:21.000 It's funny.

03:02:21.000 It's a real topic.

03:02:23.000 And I actually sat there and thought, why are they living in a fucking desert? 1.00

03:02:29.000 Are they retarded? 1.00

03:02:31.000 Why can't they move? 1.00

03:02:32.000 This is stupid. 1.00

03:02:32.000 I don't get this. 1.00

03:02:33.000 Why don't you help them?

03:02:34.000 You're right next to them!

03:02:35.000 Don't feed them yet! 0.63

03:02:36.000 Don't feed them yet! 0.63

03:02:37.000 Didn't get the shot! 1.00

03:02:38.000 The goddamn light was not ready. 1.00

03:02:40.000 The fucking mosquitoes! 1.00

03:02:42.000 Get the fuck out of here! 1.00

03:02:43.000 Such a great bit. 0.99

03:02:45.000 And again, a great bit if someone did it in 2016. But in the 84?

03:02:54.000 It was revolutionary.

03:02:56.000 Yeah.

03:02:56.000 85 maybe?

03:02:57.000 Maybe 85? 0.99

03:02:58.000 Fucking revolutionary. 1.00

03:03:00.000 It's releasing you from the sanctimony. 0.99

03:03:03.000 There's so much sanctimony that you're weighed down and you're not able to have an authentic reaction.

03:03:07.000 There's so much of yourself that you're repressing and it takes him.

03:03:11.000 You see, again, to return to that archetypes conversation we had, that the trickster, the role of the trickster that comes up in Native American myth is like the coyote or the raven, or they say that even Christ is a trickster in moments in the Bible.

03:03:26.000 People that go, that's not reality anymore.

03:03:28.000 That's a trickster function to go like, you know, you know that there's a prescribed way that you're supposed to respond to that African commercial. 0.98

03:03:37.000 Well, look, there's this alternative way of responding to it and to present it comedically.

03:03:42.000 So, oh, you freed me.

03:03:44.000 You freed me from reality.

03:03:46.000 It's like an unchaining.

03:03:48.000 And you know what's interesting about him?

03:03:49.000 Did you ever read his brother's book, Brother Sam?

03:03:51.000 No.

03:03:52.000 His brother wrote a great book about Sam, and one of the things that he said is Sam's emergence of who he is came out of a car accident.

03:04:01.000 He got hit by a truck when he was a little kid, and it changed his personality radically.

03:04:06.000 He had a serious head injury.

03:04:07.000 Wow. 0.95

03:04:08.000 He got knocked the fuck out and came back fearless. 0.97

03:04:11.000 And that's a common thing. 0.96

03:04:14.000 Impulsiveness, fearlessness, and rage.

03:04:17.000 These are constant themes that come out of head trauma.

03:04:21.000 So it's interesting, like, one of the most important figures in the history of stand-up comedy might have literally been birthed because of trauma.

03:04:29.000 Like, physical brain trauma.

03:04:31.000 That's brilliant.

03:04:32.000 I never heard that.

03:04:33.000 What intervention? 0.98

03:04:34.000 It's a brain-damaged pioneer. 0.93

03:04:36.000 Yeah.

03:04:37.000 Not for that head injury.

03:04:38.000 This whole scene would never have been discovered.

03:04:40.000 They said he was a different person. 0.92

03:04:41.000 Like, before that, he was, like, quiet and shy and a normal kid, and then, bam, he gets hit by a car, fucked up, put in a hospital, the whole deal. 0.99

03:04:49.000 Comes out of that, and he doesn't give a fuck. 0.99

03:04:51.000 Well, he just tastes death. 0.99

03:04:53.000 I don't think that's it.

03:04:54.000 But he still becomes a preacher, though.

03:04:57.000 Right, yeah. 0.99

03:04:58.000 Like, you know, so, what the fuck's he doing with that head trauma during the sermons? 0.99

03:05:02.000 But that was how he delivered. 0.99

03:05:05.000 And if you say here, in the name of Jesus!

03:05:08.000 He had this explosive sort of dynamic delivery.

03:05:11.000 And I mean, I don't want to attribute all of it to the head trauma, because obviously there was some genius involved in his creativity.

03:05:18.000 You definitely blew my...

03:05:19.000 I'm a little...

03:05:20.000 No, no, no, no.

03:05:20.000 It's not a negative thing.

03:05:22.000 I know, I know. 0.96

03:05:23.000 Look, I've dealt with a lot of brain trauma, because I know a lot of people that have gotten fucked up from fighting. 0.88

03:05:30.000 You know, there's a real thing that happens to people, and you hear about all the time when they do these shows on NFL players who become explosive, and they get crazy and impulsive, and they get very violent, and some of that has to do with repeated trauma to the head. 0.58

03:05:45.000 Well, just one event, one car accident, one thing like that, can literally change your personality.

03:05:52.000 Because there's a very fragile dynamic of synapses and personality, neurochemicals, the brain's actual, like, the flow of chemicals, of neurochemistry, and the physical body itself, and the way your personality manifests itself.

03:06:08.000 All those things are directly connected.

03:06:10.000 And an event, like what happened to Sam Kinison, literally reshaped an art form.

03:06:16.000 What about them people that get head trauma and suddenly can speak perfect French?

03:06:19.000 Have you seen them on the internet?

03:06:21.000 Yeah.

03:06:21.000 What?

03:06:22.000 Yeah, they get knocked over the nut, come back with perfect French. 1.00

03:06:25.000 It's a common phenomenon.

03:06:27.000 It can be checked out online anytime.

03:06:29.000 Is that true?

03:06:29.000 I've known that they get really good at math, but I don't know they speak French.

03:06:33.000 Does someone have to teach them French?

03:06:34.000 It's almost worth the risk.

03:06:36.000 I want to belittle head trauma.

03:06:37.000 I mean, there's definitely a downside, as you've said.

03:06:39.000 You may come back extremely aggressive.

03:06:41.000 Or you might have a headache forever.

03:06:42.000 That's also possible, too.

03:06:44.000 It's a lot easier and quicker. 1.00

03:06:45.000 It's a much quicker satisfaction than getting them stupid books. 0.99

03:06:49.000 I don't have patience for them books. 1.00

03:06:51.000 Foreign accent syndrome.

03:06:52.000 An accent.

03:06:53.000 A rare medical condition when patients develop what appears to be a foreign accent.

03:06:57.000 Chinese teacher wakes up to stroke speaking English.

03:06:59.000 What about that?

03:07:00.000 Whoa.

03:07:01.000 How about that?

03:07:01.000 But it's the Daily Mail.

03:07:02.000 They might have just made that up, so we'll click on it right now.

03:07:06.000 Yes, yes. 1.00

03:07:06.000 These motherfuckers. 1.00

03:07:08.000 I don't know. 1.00

03:07:09.000 I do know.

03:07:10.000 We have to end this, though, unfortunately.

03:07:12.000 It's 4.20.

03:07:13.000 You're joking.

03:07:14.000 How long have I been in here?

03:07:14.000 It's 4.20.

03:07:15.000 I can't remember the rest of my fucking life. 0.99

03:07:17.000 We've been here for three hours and 20 minutes. 0.99

03:07:17.000 I don't think I'm going to adjust to... 0.99

03:07:19.000 I've got to go and see my girlfriend and stuff and be a normal person.

03:07:23.000 Well, you're going to have to continue.

03:07:24.000 This cavern.

03:07:24.000 You're going to have to keep doing podcasts.

03:07:26.000 It's 4.20.

03:07:27.000 What time did we come in here?

03:07:28.000 Jim and I have been here since 10am.

03:07:29.000 This is five hours.

03:07:31.000 This is like six hours.

03:07:32.000 Yeah, you and I have been doing this for six hours.

03:07:33.000 Oh wow, I gotta make some calls.

03:07:34.000 Too bad.

03:07:38.000 Listen, man, if you're ever in here again, you got an open invitation.

03:07:42.000 Of course, you know you have an open invitation.

03:07:44.000 Thanks, Joe.

03:07:44.000 Anytime, man.

03:07:45.000 Please.

03:07:46.000 We gotta do this more often.

03:07:47.000 Thanks, man. 1.00

03:07:49.000 Alright, you fucks. 0.99

03:07:50.000 That's it. 1.00

03:07:50.000 I hope you enjoyed it. 1.00

03:07:52.000 Bye-bye!

03:07:52.000 My mind.

03:07:53.000 My poor mind.

03:07:54.000 Wow.

03:07:55.000 That was awesome.

The Joe Rogan Experience - June 21, 2016

Joe Rogan Experience #812 - Russell Brand & Jim Breuer

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript