The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #900 - Joseph Valtellini

00:00:04.000 And we're live.

00:00:05.000 What's up, Joe?

00:00:06.000 Good to see you, man.

00:00:07.000 Not too much, man.

00:00:07.000 I'm pumped to be here.

00:00:08.000 I'm like a little kid here right now.

00:00:09.000 Me too, man.

00:00:10.000 Smiling around and loving it.

00:00:11.000 Well, I'm excited.

00:00:12.000 There's a big glory event this Friday in Los Angeles.

00:00:15.000 I'll be there.

00:00:16.000 And you got two world titles, right?

00:00:19.000 Yeah, two.

00:00:20.000 Is it two world titles?

00:00:21.000 There's two world titles.

00:00:21.000 You have Israel.

00:00:22.000 Jason Willness and Israel Edison.

00:00:24.000 That's a wicked fight.

00:00:25.000 Wicked fight.

00:00:26.000 Yeah, and then you're looking at Matt Embry, another Canadian kid, against Dutch beast Robin Van Roosmalen.

00:00:32.000 Oh yeah, that's right, that's right.

00:00:34.000 That's on the card too.

00:00:34.000 That's on UFC Fight Pass.

00:00:36.000 Yes.

00:00:37.000 I'm so psyched that the UFC and UFC Fight Pass is embracing glory.

00:00:41.000 It's super exciting for me.

00:00:43.000 I think so.

00:00:44.000 And it was that huge collision card in Germany.

00:00:46.000 You had Rico versus Botter, and UFC ran that pay-per-view for us.

00:00:50.000 Oh, really?

00:00:51.000 Yeah.

00:00:51.000 No kidding.

00:00:51.000 That was the first time the UFC has run anything other than UFC. Wow.

00:00:56.000 So that's huge, man.

00:00:57.000 That, for us, is a big accomplishment for kickboxing.

00:00:59.000 Well, we've talked about it in this podcast.

00:01:01.000 We were just talking about it a couple minutes ago.

00:01:03.000 I think kickboxing, especially high-level kickboxing like Glory, is one of the most exciting sports in the world.

00:01:09.000 And it perplexes me and many other people why it's not more exciting.

00:01:14.000 That's crazy.

00:01:14.000 Because it's not hard to understand what's going on.

00:01:16.000 One of the things about MMA that is very important to me is when the fights go to the ground, I have to explain step-by-step what's going on.

00:01:25.000 Because otherwise, people that don't know ground fighting, they're all of a sudden like, why is he tapping?

00:01:30.000 What's going on?

00:01:30.000 Like, you don't see exactly what's going on.

00:01:32.000 But when someone explains it to you, you see it.

00:01:34.000 Well, with kickboxing, it's pretty obvious.

00:01:36.000 It's pretty obvious.

00:01:37.000 Yeah.

00:01:37.000 You have kicks and punches and knees.

00:01:38.000 Yeah, just people getting smashed.

00:01:40.000 Yeah.

00:01:40.000 I don't know.

00:01:41.000 I don't get it.

00:01:41.000 I seriously don't understand.

00:01:43.000 Dana White has a really good theory.

00:01:45.000 He thinks that PKA karate, from like, you remember the 1980s when they used to have those PKA karate matches on ESPN? Okay, yeah, yeah.

00:01:53.000 Remember when they wore the karate pants and the big booties on their feet?

00:01:56.000 Yeah, bouncing around.

00:01:57.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.97

00:01:57.000 It was really just sloppy boxing with some shitty kicks. 0.97

00:02:00.000 But that's what, even American kickboxing, they have a kick rule. 0.86

00:02:04.000 So what would happen is they would throw eight kicks in the beginning of the round, and then all of a sudden they'd box for the rest of the round.

00:02:09.000 Exactly.

00:02:09.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:02:11.000 And for whatever reason, and above the waist as well.

00:02:13.000 Yeah.

00:02:14.000 Which I think, one of the things about kickboxing, as opposed to the traditional martial arts, or like taekwondo or karate, is as soon as you start adding leg kicks, it changes the whole game.

00:02:24.000 Oh, it's a totally different game.

00:02:25.000 It changes everything.

00:02:26.000 And we were talking before this fight about your fight, or before this podcast, rather, about your fight with Raymond Daniels, which is one of my favorite fights ever.

00:02:32.000 Thank you.

00:02:33.000 Because he is this traditional karate guy.

00:02:36.000 He was a point-fighting champion, and he has wicked kicks.

00:02:38.000 He's just one of the most spectacular and dynamic guys in kickboxing.

00:02:43.000 But your leg kicks, and your constant pressure, and just rock-solid Muay Thai fundamentals.

00:02:49.000 You just chopped him down, chopped him down, and then eventually head-kicked him.

00:02:52.000 Yeah, those movement fighters are very tricky.

00:02:55.000 And I think what made that fight super exciting was that old-school UFC mentality.

00:02:58.000 You had two different arts, you know, battling to see which one was better.

00:03:02.000 And Raymond Daniels was undefeated.

00:03:04.000 He was just knocking people out with spinning hook kicks every time he was fighting.

00:03:08.000 So you know, as a smart, intelligent fighter, you've got to put pressure.

00:03:12.000 And I remember we had a conversation about, you know, guys like Wonderboy Thompson.

00:03:17.000 Why isn't...

00:03:19.000 His opponent's calling someone like me to do it, but you had a good point. 0.93

00:03:22.000 It takes a special fighter to really close distance and pressure like that and to be able to execute a game plan with heavy low kicks like that.

00:03:30.000 Yeah, you have to really have a high-level Muay Thai game to deal with a guy like Wonderboy the same way.

00:03:36.000 Wonderboy is also real unusual in his use of the front leg.

00:03:40.000 He has that sideways stance, and he kind of bends a little at the waist and throws all those wicked front leg sidekicks and round kicks.

00:03:48.000 And on top of that, he's a really good puncher.

00:03:50.000 He's good.

00:03:51.000 He's impressive.

00:03:52.000 The rematch is happening, isn't it, with Woodley?

00:03:55.000 Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be in March in Vegas.

00:03:57.000 That's gonna be crazy.

00:03:58.000 Yeah, that's a good rematch.

00:04:00.000 It is a good rematch, especially because Woodley was dominating that first round with his wrestling and really never took him down again.

00:04:06.000 So I was like, wow, this is crazy.

00:04:08.000 Like, I wonder why he didn't take him down.

00:04:09.000 And I asked him after the fight, he goes, I have no idea why I didn't take him down again.

00:04:12.000 So he was just in the moment.

00:04:15.000 He's just loving it, man.

00:04:15.000 Just loving the moment, loving the experience.

00:04:18.000 It's exciting.

00:04:19.000 So you now have taken some time off from fighting because of concussions.

00:04:25.000 That's right.

00:04:26.000 And tell me about that.

00:04:27.000 So yeah, it was actually, I think you were at my last fight.

00:04:30.000 I fought Mark DeBont, you know, rest in peace.

00:04:33.000 I remember we talked about the passing.

00:04:34.000 Yeah, what happened to Mark?

00:04:35.000 Did they find out what happened to him?

00:04:37.000 I don't know.

00:04:37.000 A lot of the stuff is coming out is in Dutch and Dutch newspapers, and I'm asking all of the Dutch community kind of what's happening, and they don't really know.

00:04:44.000 You hear different things in rumors, but I don't want to listen to rumors like that.

00:04:47.000 I don't want to hear it from like a concrete source.

00:04:50.000 He just went missing.

00:04:51.000 He went missing, and then they found his body.

00:04:52.000 Then they basically found his body, yeah.

00:04:54.000 Wow.

00:04:55.000 So why or who knows, but he was a great fighter.

00:04:58.000 He was amazing.

00:04:59.000 Excellent, excellent fighter.

00:05:00.000 And he was another guy, but boy, you look at him, he looked like a computer programmer.

00:05:06.000 You know what I mean?

00:05:08.000 It's interesting how looks can be so deceiving.

00:05:11.000 He's a super, super high-level guy.

00:05:13.000 Yeah, but that was my last fight.

00:05:15.000 And from there, it was actually really tough.

00:05:18.000 I never really opened up about it, to be honest with you.

00:05:20.000 And it was a very tough experience.

00:05:23.000 You know, you've got to think, I just win the world title.

00:05:25.000 I'm going home to Canada, which my concussion was pretty bad where I shouldn't have even gone on a plane home.

00:05:31.000 And next thing you know, I'm at home and just the concussions got really bad.

00:05:35.000 I had to be hospitalized for a few days.

00:05:38.000 I was in a dark room for three weeks, man.

00:05:41.000 I could not get out of a dark room for three weeks.

00:05:43.000 I couldn't walk.

00:05:44.000 I guess something with the concussion started causing some nerve damage.

00:05:54.000 So it started causing some nerve damage in my back.

00:05:56.000 I was in a bed, man.

00:05:57.000 Couldn't even look out.

00:05:58.000 I had a little red light on my phone charger.

00:06:00.000 It was too much.

00:06:01.000 Really?

00:06:02.000 Yeah, it was bad, man.

00:06:03.000 The red light on the phone charger would hurt your head.

00:06:05.000 I couldn't even look at a thing.

00:06:06.000 So it was at that point, it was like, man, it's like I just won this world title, and it was a really tough time.

00:06:11.000 And this is actually the first time I've really opened up about it, but it was a tough experience.

00:06:15.000 And being in that, you know, down state where you're basically in a dark room for three weeks, doctors were just...

00:06:23.000 You know, handing me over a shit ton of Percocets and Oxys to kind of deal with the pain and it was a tough time, man.

00:06:31.000 And it really, I think what was the hardest was what was happening mentally.

00:06:34.000 I'm sitting there being like, man, I just want a world title.

00:06:36.000 I want to get back in there.

00:06:37.000 I want to, you know, do so much in this sport and my goal was to be a legend in this sport.

00:06:42.000 But, you know, and then it got to the point I saw my family and how much it was affecting my family, and that's when I decided, you know what, let's put this on rest for a little bit.

00:06:51.000 So, you win the fight, and after the fight is over, was it immediately that you knew something was wrong?

00:06:57.000 Honestly, I had some adrenaline rush, and I did the post-fight press conference, everything was fine.

00:07:03.000 Just when I got back to the hotel room, I was throwing up and couldn't leave my room, and I was surprised I'd even gone on an airplane home.

00:07:10.000 The doctors in Canada were like, how the heck did you get on an airplane home?

00:07:14.000 It was scary times, man, and it took a lot of good mental strength to get out of it, and now I'm actually in a position where I'm super happy and I'm loving it.

00:07:24.000 I got that whole color commentary roll with Glory, which has been incredible.

00:07:29.000 That's great.

00:07:29.000 It's great that you found a way out of it, but man, I would imagine that when you were in that dark room and you couldn't even look at the light on a charger, That must have been really, really, really uncomfortable to deal with.

00:07:40.000 It was tough, man.

00:07:43.000 How can I explain it?

00:07:45.000 It gets emotional sometimes.

00:07:46.000 It was a time where it was like, I finally achieved what I wanted, and no one has really gotten to that level in the time that I did.

00:07:54.000 Before I turned pro, I only had 11 amateur fights.

00:07:57.000 I only had 11 amateur fights, and right away into the pro ranks, I only had 14 professional fights.

00:08:03.000 So you gotta think, in 25 fights I was able to get in there, become a professional, win the world title in the biggest kickboxing organization.

00:08:11.000 All within 25 fights, amateur, professional combined.

00:08:14.000 And how old were you when you won the title?

00:08:16.000 Uh, 28?

00:08:17.000 So you're still young.

00:08:19.000 And I'm 31 right now.

00:08:20.000 But think about that, you know, like the amount of fights you had, not that many in comparison to a lot of these Dutch guys that have 100 plus fights, a lot of the Thai guys that have more.

00:08:28.000 It's crazy to think, yeah.

00:08:29.000 I think it's just bad luck sometimes.

00:08:31.000 And my style was a style that was really, man, you could watch any one of my fights and you're going to be entertained.

00:08:38.000 And I understood the value of, you know, it's more than just a sport.

00:08:42.000 You got to win, you got to dominate, you got to be exciting.

00:08:45.000 I think that's what I really did in my career.

00:08:47.000 And that's what I got such a huge following behind me.

00:08:50.000 And, you know, it was sucked because I had more I wanted to show, put it that way.

00:08:55.000 Now, when you see a guy like Mayweather who's gone through a career and he's like 49-0 and is probably one of the best, if not the best, defensive fighters of all time, and then you see what you went through with your situation, do you look at a guy like Mayweather and say, man, maybe I should take a different approach or maybe I should have taken a more safety-first approach?

00:09:17.000 I'm torn between that.

00:09:19.000 Because at one point, that's Floyd Mayweather, right?

00:09:22.000 And you're looking at a guy who makes multi-millions a fight, and he has that support around him.

00:09:31.000 And whether it's a boring fight, and most people who watch, the casual fans who watch Floyd Mayweather think he's boring.

00:09:37.000 Right.

00:09:37.000 Right?

00:09:38.000 But really, if you're a skilled fighter and you understand what he's doing, you understand how incredible of an athlete he is.

00:09:44.000 But I was just thrown in there with the Wolves, man.

00:09:46.000 It was kind of like, hey, you're fighting Kareem Gaji in your third glory fight.

00:09:52.000 It's only his hundredth professional fight.

00:09:55.000 And that's my eighth.

00:09:57.000 So what do I do?

00:09:57.000 Do I play the point games with someone who's been in that ring?

00:10:00.000 Probably had a hundred amateur fights, a hundred professional fights.

00:10:03.000 What do I do?

00:10:04.000 So again, I have to go in there.

00:10:06.000 I gotta build a name for myself.

00:10:08.000 You gotta think, Canada?

00:10:09.000 There's no professional fighting in Ontario, Canada, where I'm from.

00:10:12.000 So there's no professional fighting.

00:10:14.000 I had no experience.

00:10:15.000 So my approach was, I gotta bring the heat to these guys.

00:10:18.000 Wow.

00:10:19.000 I gotta bring the heat, I gotta be exciting, and I gotta finish.

00:10:22.000 Just turn it into a brawl. 0.96

00:10:23.000 Just turn it in.

00:10:24.000 But again, I wouldn't use brawl.

00:10:26.000 Yes, yes, yes.

00:10:28.000 People always say, oh, you're a brawler, you're aggressive.

00:10:30.000 No, I'm a technician.

00:10:31.000 And actually, when I'm coming forward and I'm stalking you, I'm waiting to counter kick.

00:10:35.000 I'm waiting to use my low kicks.

00:10:36.000 I'm waiting to counter you.

00:10:37.000 So it's very calculated.

00:10:38.000 I wouldn't say brawling.

00:10:39.000 Yeah, that's probably not the right word, but you turn them into very violent encounters.

00:10:45.000 Always.

00:10:45.000 Yeah.

00:10:46.000 Always.

00:10:46.000 Now, when you watch high-level kickboxing, like Glory, and then you see what's going on in MMA, where I think the level of striking is certainly advancing, you're getting better and better strikers, but it's really not at the same level that you're seeing in, like, world champion kickboxing.

00:11:02.000 Yeah, it's totally different.

00:11:03.000 And people gotta understand it's a totally different sport.

00:11:06.000 The way you would fight in kickboxing, you're not gonna fight the same way in MMA. There's takedowns, and there's a lot of very successful kickboxers who don't do well in MMA. A lot don't, because they keep that traditional Muay Thai stance where they stand very tall,

00:11:21.000 and they're fighting very tall, and of course a wrestler's gonna take you down. 1.00

00:11:26.000 An example of a good Canadian striker is Shane Campbell.

00:11:31.000 Shane Campbell fights in the UFC and he's got an incredible background in Muay Thai, but he stays true sometimes a little too much to his Muay Thai roots on the striking.

00:11:40.000 You gotta keep your hips back, you gotta move, it's a totally different game. 0.90

00:11:43.000 You got a four ounce glove, not an eight ounce glove, so shit changes.

00:11:47.000 Yeah, it also affects your offense too when you're worried about takedowns, you're worried about all these different aspects of... 0.94

00:11:52.000 Yeah, the clinch, the cage.

00:11:54.000 Have you ever fought in a cage?

00:11:56.000 No.

00:11:57.000 We've been debating a lot lately.

00:11:58.000 I talk way too much about it, people getting annoyed, because I think that they should do it on a basketball court.

00:12:02.000 I really think fights should take place on a large surface with no obstacles, nothing other than the fighters themselves.

00:12:10.000 Did you like the pride ring over the octagon?

00:12:13.000 No, I think rings are dangerous.

00:12:15.000 Like, you saw the Bernard Hopkins, Joe Smith Jr. fight, right?

00:12:18.000 Yeah, I mean, that's a good example of why I think rings are dangerous. 0.98

00:12:22.000 It's not often that that happens, where guys get knocked through the ropes, but it does fucking happen. 0.93

00:12:27.000 And in Pride, I think... 0.96

00:12:30.000 They did a good job of standing outside the ring.

00:12:33.000 The Pride organization was good where they had a bunch of guys waiting to catch people.

00:12:37.000 But it's still weird.

00:12:38.000 It shouldn't have to come down to that.

00:12:39.000 Exactly.

00:12:40.000 I get it for MMA, but for a kickboxing, I can't really see it being done in a cage.

00:12:45.000 I know I think you had him on John Wayne Park.

00:12:47.000 Yes.

00:12:47.000 He does caged Muay Thai.

00:12:49.000 Yeah.

00:12:50.000 What's your thoughts on that?

00:12:51.000 Well, he loves it.

00:12:51.000 And he does it with MMA gloves, too.

00:12:54.000 That's dangerous, man.

00:12:55.000 You're putting good strikers on Without a takedown, that's dangerous, man.

00:12:59.000 Yeah, it's a totally different thing.

00:13:01.000 I mean, it's a totally different thing with those little gloves, too, right?

00:13:04.000 Have you done any fighting with little gloves?

00:13:06.000 No, I was actually planning to fight a few times, because before Glory, there was nothing.

00:13:11.000 You've got to look.

00:13:12.000 Originally, it was K-1.

00:13:13.000 And K-1 only had a lightweight division and a heavyweight division.

00:13:16.000 So everyone in between had to kind of pick away.

00:13:20.000 I actually fought in L.A. It was against a UFC fighter, Mehdi Baghdad.

00:13:26.000 Okay, sure.

00:13:26.000 So I fought Medi Baghdad in LA and it was just, I tried making for the first time 160. And it was, it was hell.

00:13:34.000 You're a big guy.

00:13:34.000 What do you walk around at?

00:13:36.000 Well, my non-fighting walk around about 200. When I was fighting, about 190, 195. So you were trying to lose 30 plus pounds.

00:13:45.000 Yeah, it sucked. 0.99

00:13:46.000 It sucked. 0.99

00:13:47.000 But I think that's the other thing.

00:13:49.000 MMA guys know how to cut weight a little better than kickboxers do. 0.94

00:13:53.000 I think there's that wrestling, growing up with that wrestling helps.

00:13:57.000 Yeah, but I think it's more dangerous with, well I know it's more dangerous with striking than it is with wrestling.

00:14:03.000 And that's one of the problems with that wrestling mentality.

00:14:06.000 It's your brain.

00:14:06.000 Yeah, it is.

00:14:06.000 Your brain's dehydrated.

00:14:08.000 Yeah, but see that the advantage in MMA of being bigger, it's not the same as the advantage of being bigger in striking because being bigger in striking is important.

00:14:17.000 It's definitely a factor, but it's so much more of a factor when you're clinching.

00:14:21.000 Oh, for sure.

00:14:21.000 So much more of a factor when you take guys down.

00:14:23.000 You lose a little bit of speed sometimes and that mobility.

00:14:26.000 Yeah.

00:14:27.000 Yeah.

00:14:28.000 So when you were thinking about sparring with little gloves, what differences did you notice or you think about fighting with little gloves?

00:14:35.000 It was more about moving more.

00:14:37.000 And I coach a lot of MMA guys, and I actually got to work in the UFC. I got to corner twice in the UFC, which was pretty cool.

00:14:45.000 I had Mitch Gagnon, and I got to corner Antonio Carvalho.

00:14:49.000 Who was Mitch fighting?

00:14:50.000 When he fought, he fought...

00:14:52.000 Oh, I have to dig deep here.

00:14:55.000 A young kid...

00:14:56.000 I want to say he was Hawaiian, maybe?

00:14:58.000 Knocked him out.

00:14:59.000 I helped train him for...

00:15:01.000 He fought Wawel Watson.

00:15:03.000 Knocked him out with a left hook.

00:15:06.000 Who was that other kid that he fought?

00:15:08.000 But my last Antonio fight was against Derrick Elkins.

00:15:12.000 That was one of those fights where Antonio got caught, dropped, popped back up, and Eve Levine called it off.

00:15:19.000 It was an early stoppage, but yeah, he's protecting Antonio.

00:15:24.000 So, it's interesting that a guy like you, who is this very high-level world champion kickboxer, learning how to fight and move with the small MMA gloves, it kind of shows you that striking, in particular with MMA striking, is still in a learning,

00:15:40.000 growing phase.

00:15:41.000 Oh, for sure.

00:15:41.000 Because guys like you come in, and you are, like, guys like Duke Rufus, a former world champion himself, who's really good at training guys and teaching guys.

00:15:50.000 Dwayne Ludwig's doing a good job.

00:15:51.000 Perfect example, yeah.

00:15:53.000 And there's so many different methods and so many different styles that people are trying to incorporate.

00:16:00.000 I think people focus fighting.

00:16:02.000 The way I look at fighting, it's not actually what you throw.

00:16:05.000 And I always get questioned, what's a good coach versus a bad coach?

00:16:09.000 And a good coach is going to teach you positioning, distance.

00:16:14.000 He's going to tell you more of the philosophies and strategies around fighting.

00:16:18.000 Where there's so many coaches, and with MMA being so popular, Every other corner has an MMA gym.

00:16:26.000 And these guys are basically putting these fighters on pads and they're just getting them tired.

00:16:30.000 Jab, cross, hole, kick!

00:16:31.000 Jab, cross, hole, kick!

00:16:32.000 More combination!

00:16:33.000 Combination!

00:16:33.000 They get tired and they think tired equals good.

00:16:36.000 Where there's so much more Where's your distance control?

00:16:39.000 How are you moving?

00:16:41.000 What are your counters?

00:16:42.000 How are you countering?

00:16:43.000 What are your defense?

00:16:44.000 People think there's defense, but there's different types of defense.

00:16:47.000 You've got head movement.

00:16:47.000 You've got shield defense.

00:16:48.000 You've got footwork for your defense.

00:16:50.000 You've got parries.

00:16:51.000 So there's so many different ways, but it does take good coaching, in my opinion, to take these guys to that high professional level, and there's not enough of it.

00:17:00.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:17:01.000 And it's so hard for a young fighter to find really solid coaching.

00:17:04.000 When you start out, you're really kind of lucky if you walk into a great gym your first time.

00:17:09.000 Because so few people, especially in the beginning, really know how to differentiate between a great gym and just a regular gym.

00:17:17.000 It's very, very difficult to tell.

00:17:19.000 Yeah, it's hard.

00:17:20.000 Sorry, but back to your original question.

00:17:21.000 It's about mobility in my opinion.

00:17:24.000 Guys in MMA need to know how to move a little bit better. 1.00

00:17:27.000 I think footwork is one of the most important things in fighting.

00:17:31.000 And you got to be able to adapt.

00:17:32.000 If you're fighting a pressure fighter, you got to be able to move and fight on angles.

00:17:36.000 If you're fighting a guy who now likes to move a lot, you got to be able to pressure fight.

00:17:41.000 So you have to have the coaching and the knowledge to be able to adapt accordingly.

00:17:45.000 Yeah, and I think that a lot of people don't see when you're watching kickboxing or you're watching Muay Thai, you're seeing these guys are standing close to each other and they're throwing kicks.

00:17:57.000 It's hard to tell exactly why they're doing what.

00:18:01.000 It's hard to tell exactly why one guy is more effective.

00:18:05.000 But once you see it and once you practice it and once you do it, then it all starts opening up to you like a flower.

00:18:12.000 Now, when a guy like you is doing commentary, it really helps.

00:18:17.000 Because a guy who's been in there, a guy who's been a world champion, and you get to explain what this guy's probably thinking, what's going wrong, and it's sort of, I really like your commentary, man.

00:18:26.000 I've been trying, man.

00:18:27.000 I'm still learning.

00:18:28.000 Thank you.

00:18:29.000 You do a great job.

00:18:29.000 It means a lot coming from you.

00:18:30.000 But you're explaining things in a way that's opening up the game to people.

00:18:35.000 It opens up the sport where you go, oh, okay, now I know what to look for.

00:18:39.000 Now I know what trends are happening there.

00:18:41.000 See, I'm trying to find the balance still.

00:18:42.000 I think that's one of my challenges.

00:18:44.000 If I come in there and I start talking, you know, his left heel is about two inches, which is causing this to happen, and his distance control is off, he needs to slip off.

00:18:53.000 It's too much sometimes.

00:18:55.000 So my challenge has been trying to kind of bring it down a little bit and try not to overly, try to over-educate.

00:19:03.000 That's been my challenge.

00:19:04.000 The other challenge is try not to use the same word all the time.

00:19:08.000 What a good left hook!

00:19:09.000 What a big left hook!

00:19:11.000 I'm trying to change words, man. 0.99

00:19:12.000 I need a thesaurus beside me and just try to write shit down or something, man. 0.92

00:19:16.000 Well, I can tell you I've failed on all those exact same things. 0.96

00:19:19.000 It's hard, man.

00:19:20.000 It's hard.

00:19:20.000 Talk too much.

00:19:21.000 Talk too much.

00:19:22.000 Say the same words too many times.

00:19:23.000 You know, call people too explosive.

00:19:25.000 And then, like, some people got mad for calling them explosive or athletic.

00:19:28.000 Like, how come you only talk about black guys who call them explosive and athletic?

00:19:31.000 I'm like, okay. 0.99

00:19:32.000 There's white guys that are explosive and athletic too, but you can't tell me that certain guys aren't fucking explosive. 0.96

00:19:36.000 But how do you deal with it? 0.96

00:19:38.000 Are you okay with it now?

00:19:40.000 It's been hard for me, man.

00:19:41.000 People come out and they take all your words seriously. 0.99

00:19:44.000 You go online and people are like, you freaking don't know shit and they're talking crap. 0.99

00:19:48.000 Well, they can't say that. 1.00

00:19:50.000 Anybody who says that you don't know shit is an idiot. 1.00

00:19:52.000 And you're going to get that, but I think they keep you on your toes, man. 1.00

00:19:55.000 I really do.

00:19:55.000 I think so.

00:19:56.000 I think for the most part, the majority of respectful fans, they might see something that maybe you don't know that you're doing that might be annoying.

00:20:04.000 And if it's annoying to them, it's annoying.

00:20:06.000 It might be only annoying to 2% of the people.

00:20:09.000 But there might be a way where you could eliminate that aspect of your commentary.

00:20:13.000 And I know I've worked hard on that.

00:20:15.000 I think it's good.

00:20:16.000 I think all the online criticism, as much as it's uncomfortable, it fucks a lot of fighters heads up, man.

00:20:22.000 Oh, it kills people. 1.00

00:20:23.000 Yeah, I've talked to a lot of guys, coaches, that were like, man, those trolls, man, they fucked with his head. 1.00

00:20:28.000 I'm like, really? 0.99

00:20:28.000 And they're like, yeah, he's always reading the comments and going on forums. 0.99

00:20:31.000 That could be dangerous, man.

00:20:32.000 Yes.

00:20:33.000 That could be freaking dangerous, yeah.

00:20:34.000 I mean, because you don't know who's making those things. 1.00

00:20:37.000 I mean, that could be a 12-year-old kid who's on Adderall, who's kicking his cat, and you're reading this guy's words as if it's gospel, and you want to argue with him, and guys get online, you don't know shit, and they're like, fuck your mother. 1.00

00:20:49.000 What? 1.00

00:20:50.000 Oh, it's tough, man.

00:20:51.000 You think about it all day.

00:20:53.000 Oh, yeah.

00:20:53.000 It's harder than it.

00:20:54.000 I thought commentary was going to be an easier job than I thought, but I think it's harder than fighting right now because it's still new to me.

00:21:01.000 I've only done 10 Glory shows, and I don't think it's official yet, but maybe I'll make it official here, but Glory signed me full-time next year.

00:21:09.000 Oh, that's awesome.

00:21:10.000 Glory's has huge shows.

00:21:12.000 I'm going to do 18 shows next year.

00:21:13.000 Whoa.

00:21:14.000 And I don't know how much you know about my life, but I'm also a full-time high school teacher.

00:21:19.000 You are?

00:21:20.000 Yeah, man.

00:21:20.000 No kidding.

00:21:21.000 So literally, in my morning, I teach phys ed.

00:21:23.000 I teach at a special education school, so I work with kids with special needs, behaviors, autism.

00:21:28.000 So I teach phys ed to them.

00:21:30.000 So that's 9, 9, like 8, what time do we start?

00:21:33.000 8.55 to 3.30.

00:21:35.000 Then from three, I have an hour to eat my lunch, or my dinner at that point, and then I have my own gym, bazooka, kickboxing, and MMA. And so you teach classes after that?

00:21:43.000 I train and I teach classes a couple times a week, but we have a big program, man.

00:21:46.000 Our gym's huge, it's big, it's popular, so it's non-stop.

00:21:50.000 And then at night I go home and I have to do commentary.

00:21:53.000 What a bunch of lucky kids to have a guy like you as a coach.

00:21:56.000 That's amazing.

00:21:57.000 But I never really got to reach my full potential in all the things I wanted to do with kickboxing.

00:22:02.000 But this is where it's happening.

00:22:04.000 Glory having me full-time allowed me to take a year leave from teaching.

00:22:08.000 And again, if you look at my Instagram, you could already see the difference, man.

00:22:11.000 I want to educate people.

00:22:12.000 I want to get people hooked to Glory, hooked to the sport.

00:22:15.000 So I'm posting training videos, training tips.

00:22:18.000 I got Chris Camozzi just commented on one of my...

00:22:22.000 Videos being like, hey man, keep up the drilling.

00:22:24.000 I love the drills.

00:22:25.000 I had John McDessie just private message me saying like, hey man, good stuff.

00:22:30.000 I've been following you. 0.99

00:22:31.000 So it's just getting that word out, man, that kickboxing is the shit and glory is where it's at. 0.99

00:22:35.000 Yeah, sometimes it's just a matter of like staying the course and continuing to put out content. 0.98

00:22:40.000 And we've played a bunch of your stuff on here too.

00:22:42.000 That's been huge.

00:22:42.000 You just posted something.

00:22:43.000 I just got like almost a thousand new Instagram likes and follows.

00:22:48.000 So thank you, man.

00:22:48.000 Oh, you're welcome, brother.

00:22:49.000 Yeah.

00:22:50.000 So, now that you are in this position as Glory Commentator and you've recovered from your concussion, do you have any thoughts in your head of fighting again?

00:22:59.000 To be honest, there's more money doing commentary than there is in the ring.

00:23:02.000 And that's where kickboxing is still at.

00:23:05.000 There's still not enough finances to make it worth, but it also comes down to, is any money worth health at that point?

00:23:12.000 Right.

00:23:12.000 You can make $10 million a fight, but if you don't remember that fight after and you don't recover from brain injuries again, What do you do?

00:23:20.000 I was having this conversation with some guys this week that are not fighters and they were asking me about certain fights where people got knocked out and you know how come you know when they came back you know they weren't as good and and my take on it was you never know how someone's gonna recover from a loss you don't know physically and your case is a perfect example we're talking about a fight you won where you won the world title we didn't get knocked out I got knocked down,

00:23:46.000 but not knocked out.

00:23:47.000 Yeah, and you still had this concussion issue.

00:23:50.000 And when someone would look at you, like right now, you talk great, you look fine, doesn't look like there's anything wrong with you, people would be like, oh, he's fine, why can't he fight?

00:23:58.000 You know what, man?

00:23:59.000 It takes...

00:24:00.000 And I'm going to be honest with this whole recovery period.

00:24:03.000 It takes a lot out of you.

00:24:06.000 You really have to find something deep inside of you.

00:24:09.000 You have to find that mental strength to be, you know what?

00:24:13.000 Because a lot of what people don't understand, with concussions comes depression.

00:24:18.000 Depression is a big side effect.

00:24:20.000 Depression is a big side effect of concussions.

00:24:22.000 So a lot of these guys that you don't see it, yeah, they just get knocked out and then they're forgotten about.

00:24:26.000 Those guys go home, they're depressed, their brain chemistry is all mixed up, their brain's not recovering the same way, so it's actually hard.

00:24:34.000 And these fighters are at home probably crying themselves to sleep, they have headaches every day, but they just don't.

00:24:42.000 There's not enough education on what these guys are going through and suffering with.

00:24:46.000 And I know you're really big on it, but one of the big things that has helped me, and we can branch off on this, is the use of CBDs for brain injuries.

00:24:55.000 That's been incredible for my recovery.

00:24:57.000 Yeah, CBD is a non-psychoactive compound that's in cannabis.

00:25:03.000 And it's a crazy thing that's going on here in the States.

00:25:07.000 I don't know how you guys treat it up in Canada, but it's essentially being turned into a Schedule I drug now, even though it's not psychoactive. 1.00

00:25:15.000 Stupid. 1.00

00:25:15.000 Well, it's 100% shenanigans by pharmaceutical companies. 1.00

00:25:18.000 It's 100% influenced by these people that stand to lose money because CBD oil helps a lot of people with inflammation, a lot of people with chronic arthritis.

00:25:28.000 They're saying cancer.

00:25:29.000 There's a potential to cure cancer.

00:25:30.000 I don't know.

00:25:31.000 There's not enough studies, but hey...

00:25:32.000 Yeah, it certainly helps treat it.

00:25:35.000 It treats inflammation.

00:25:36.000 And inflammation, apparently, if you talk to doctors, they'll tell you it's a huge issue.

00:25:41.000 And one of the biggest issues when it comes to diseases, discomfort, and things like arthritis, again, and headaches.

00:25:46.000 You know, like when you're taking a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory for a headache, like if you're taking an Advil or an ibuprofen, what you're taking is something that reduces inflammation.

00:25:55.000 I mean, that's what it's for.

00:25:56.000 And CBD oil does the same thing, but it's natural, it's healthy, it's not bad for you, and it doesn't get you high.

00:26:02.000 It's not like something's gonna fuck you up at work.

00:26:04.000 It's been crazy because when I was going in that dark room there for three weeks, I literally, doctors were giving me like six to eight Percocets a day and they were giving me two muscle relaxants for my back pain.

00:26:17.000 So what happens...

00:26:18.000 What was going on with your back?

00:26:19.000 I don't know, something with the nerves from my brain because it must have damaged some of the inflammation and it was causing like this back pain that I couldn't even get out of bed with.

00:26:28.000 So they were giving me all of these things to cope with it and then all of a sudden I got my sisters and my family to do some research.

00:26:35.000 At that point, man, I would have taken anything.

00:26:37.000 You could have given me coke, heroin, acid, you name it, I would have taken it to recover.

00:26:41.000 Because those pills, they were messing me up.

00:26:43.000 I was living in a cartoon world in that darkroom.

00:26:46.000 I had no idea what was going on.

00:26:47.000 I was tripping out.

00:26:48.000 And then it got to the point where I was like, listen, I got people to research and they said, hey, these CBDs help.

00:26:54.000 My family did all their research and they ended up getting me some CBD stuff.

00:26:57.000 So in what form did you take it?

00:26:59.000 I got it as an oil.

00:27:01.000 So did you just take it on drops in your tongue?

00:27:04.000 Yeah, I put it underneath my tongue basically kind of thing.

00:27:06.000 And I was able to cut out all of those Percocets and everything just with CBD oil.

00:27:11.000 In how long of a time?

00:27:13.000 Right away.

00:27:14.000 Right away?

00:27:14.000 Right away.

00:27:15.000 I stopped because again with those concussions and brain injuries a lot of times you develop insomnia.

00:27:19.000 So I wasn't sleeping.

00:27:20.000 I wasn't eating much.

00:27:21.000 What is CBD's and cannabis good for?

00:27:24.000 Munchies. 0.92

00:27:25.000 Munchies. 0.92

00:27:25.000 And sleeping. 0.92

00:27:27.000 And it was good for my recovery.

00:27:28.000 So it helped manage to get off all of those painkillers and now I'm able to, you know, be healthy and control my brain headaches and stuff without having to take ibuprofen and Advils.

00:27:39.000 Are you still getting headaches?

00:27:40.000 They come.

00:27:41.000 Yeah, they're still there.

00:27:42.000 And you gotta remember, I'm working three full-time jobs.

00:27:45.000 Right.

00:27:45.000 If you're not, even if you...

00:27:47.000 You know, your brain is healthy and you're working three full-time jobs.

00:27:50.000 You're probably going to get a headache or two throughout your day.

00:27:52.000 Yeah, but when you get a headache, it's a different experience.

00:27:55.000 It's a different one.

00:27:55.000 Because you're also, you know, you're so aware of where it can go.

00:27:59.000 Yeah, it's scary.

00:28:01.000 So it's been helping, man.

00:28:02.000 And I know you have, it's on my list to watch, but because I was explaining, everyone's like, yo, you got to tell Rogan about your experience with CBD. And I haven't got to watch it.

00:28:10.000 I think you wrote, it was a 2007, you came out with The Union.

00:28:14.000 Yeah, that was a documentary by my buddy Adam, who lives up in BC, and that whole area is essentially run by the marijuana industry, even though marijuana is illegal. 0.94

00:28:28.000 So they made this documentary explaining how without marijuana, your entire economy is fucked.

00:28:35.000 Like it's this underground economy, and they call it the union. 0.94

00:28:39.000 It was a really, really good documentary.

00:28:41.000 It's on my list.

00:28:41.000 And then he went on to make The Culture High, which is also an excellent documentary that he made after that.

00:28:45.000 I'll watch both.

00:28:47.000 Well, we've been hoodwinked in this country, unfortunately, in all countries now because of the influence of America.

00:28:53.000 We've been hoodwinked by the propaganda that they came up with in the 1930s, which wasn't even about pharmaceutical drugs back then.

00:29:01.000 It was really about the paper industry.

00:29:04.000 Yeah, it's William Randolph Hearst, who was a real creepy guy.

00:29:08.000 And he was the reason why Orson Welles made that movie Citizen Kane.

00:29:13.000 He was the inspiration for that movie.

00:29:16.000 About one guy who was kind of dominating the world with his influence.

00:29:21.000 And William Randolph Hearst didn't just own newspaper companies.

00:29:23.000 He also owned paper mills, and he owned forests, these enormous forests where they would chop down trees and make paper with them.

00:29:29.000 And in the 1930s, they came out with a product called a decorticator.

00:29:33.000 And a decorticator is a machine that allowed them to effectively process hemp fiber very easily.

00:29:39.000 Okay.

00:29:40.000 Because hemp is a very unusual plant.

00:29:43.000 Like this table that we have here, this is oak.

00:29:45.000 And oak is a very hard wood.

00:29:47.000 Well, hemp Hemp is as hard as oak, but it's way lighter.

00:29:50.000 It's like a freaky alien plant.

00:29:52.000 Like, if you pick up a hemp stalk, like, this is a decorticator that they're, uh, this is a, this is a, like, a modern one, I guess.

00:30:00.000 So you throw the, the hemp fibers in there, and it grinds them up.

00:30:04.000 Which, by the way, hemp is still federally illegal, even though it's not psychoactive. 0.99

00:30:10.000 And there's so much stupidity that's all attached to this one amazing plant. 0.92

00:30:12.000 I always thought it was just because it was under so much, uh, TS, uh, Has to be under 1% THC or is that a myth? 0.99

00:30:19.000 I don't think that's it.

00:30:21.000 To make it legal to sell or something along those lines?

00:30:23.000 I don't know.

00:30:24.000 You can grow it in some states, but the thing is like federally.

00:30:29.000 Federally it's still illegal, but they're trying to change that.

00:30:31.000 It's just slow and painful.

00:30:33.000 And again, it's all the propaganda from the 1930s.

00:30:37.000 So William Randolph Hearst, who owned newspapers, They came out with this decorticator, and then Popular Science magazine had this cover.

00:30:44.000 See if you can find it, Jamie.

00:30:45.000 Hemp, the new billion-dollar crop.

00:30:47.000 Because of this...

00:30:48.000 See, they used to use hemp way back in the day.

00:30:51.000 Like, the drafts of the Declaration of Independence were written on hemp.

00:30:54.000 The sails that they used for boats were all made out of hemp.

00:30:59.000 All that stuff was out of hemp.

00:31:00.000 In fact, canvas, the word canvas comes from the word cannabis.

00:31:03.000 So the Mona Lisa is painted on hemp.

00:31:06.000 So they came up with that, and then when Eli Whitney came up with the cotton gin, cotton was more effective to use.

00:31:13.000 Yeah, so they were going to use it for clothes, and you see it on the cover of Popular Science magazine.

00:31:18.000 It was on the cover, though, Jamie.

00:31:20.000 Is it Popular Mechanics?

00:31:22.000 Is that what it is?

00:31:23.000 Anyway, so they used to use it for parachutes, they used it for all these different things, but then when Eli Whitney came up with the cotton gin, it was easier for them to make clothes out of cotton, because hemp requires a lot to break down the fibers and turn them into cloth.

00:31:40.000 It's a crazy plant, and it makes this unbelievable paper.

00:31:44.000 Like, hemp paper is so superior to this paper that we all use. 1.00

00:31:47.000 Like, this paper that we use is shit. 0.99

00:31:49.000 It rips so easy. 1.00

00:31:50.000 Hemp paper is really hard to rip.

00:31:53.000 But it weighs the same.

00:31:54.000 It looks the same.

00:31:55.000 It feels the same.

00:31:56.000 But it's just a better fiber.

00:31:57.000 So instead of William Randolph Hearst embracing this, he would have lost millions of dollars because he would have had to replant these forests and turn them into hemp.

00:32:05.000 He decided to go the other route and just start making propaganda against hemp.

00:32:10.000 So he started calling it marijuana.

00:32:12.000 See, marijuana was never a name for cannabis.

00:32:15.000 Marijuana was a wild Mexican tobacco.

00:32:18.000 They took this name from this wild Mexican tobacco. 1.00

00:32:21.000 They started talking about this new drug that's making white women get raped by Mexicans and black people. 1.00

00:32:29.000 Plant wizards fight wartime drug peril. 1.00

00:32:31.000 Look at that.

00:32:32.000 We need hemp, lots of it, for corrige, but hemp means marijuana too.

00:32:35.000 Can scientists take the drug menace out of this useful plant?

00:32:38.000 Hilarious. 1.00

00:32:39.000 So all this shit came from this one asshole. 1.00

00:32:42.000 One asshole and Harry Anslinger, who was the guy in charge of, well, you know, they originally got a lot of people that were involved in the alcohol prohibition. 1.00

00:32:51.000 And once alcohol prohibition was done, they needed something else to fight. 0.99

00:32:55.000 So they said, well, look, we got something right here.

00:32:57.000 Which alcohol probably does more damage to your body than...

00:32:59.000 Oh, it does.

00:33:00.000 Trust me. 1.00

00:33:01.000 I was drunk as fuck Monday night. 0.99

00:33:02.000 I think Monday night I might have been blackout drunk. 1.00

00:33:05.000 You feel like shit for like three days probably? 0.99

00:33:06.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:33:07.000 I feel like shit today a little bit. 0.99

00:33:08.000 But, so, this propaganda, they're still fighting this. 0.99

00:33:13.000 They're literally still fighting this.

00:33:15.000 Well, that's kind of like, it's a little different, but why kickboxing, MMA, it was so hard to get into Ontario. 0.99

00:33:22.000 Stupid, you know, legislature and stuff from years ago that the language ruined. 0.99

00:33:28.000 So, it just ruins things. 1.00

00:33:29.000 What was the language?

00:33:30.000 It's something about the belts.

00:33:32.000 Like, we can't get kickboxing or Muay Thai in Ontario, Canada.

00:33:36.000 Because of belts?

00:33:37.000 No.

00:33:37.000 No, it's because of some language inside legal documents.

00:33:41.000 Within that language, it said something about you cannot perform kicks.

00:33:48.000 That's why the UFC had so much difficult time to get into Toronto.

00:33:52.000 But it's in there now.

00:33:54.000 It is, but I think it's...

00:33:55.000 Not yet.

00:33:56.000 Kickboxing's not in Toronto?

00:33:58.000 Above the waist only.

00:33:59.000 You can't do low-kicking fights.

00:34:02.000 What?!

00:34:02.000 Or professional Muay Thai in Ontario, Canada.

00:34:05.000 That's insane! 0.99

00:34:06.000 All old shit from years ago that the commissioner was following from a long time ago. 0.99

00:34:12.000 Even if you ask fighters, I had a conversation with Matt Embry who's fighting Robin Van Roosmalen, and we were like, I don't even know why. 0.97

00:34:19.000 We don't even know.

00:34:20.000 It's in that legal document, the way it's written, and the terminology screwed us up.

00:34:26.000 But how's that the case when you can still have UFC fights and they're allowed to low kick in UFC fights?

00:34:30.000 I think it comes to money.

00:34:32.000 Probably comes down to money.

00:34:34.000 Wow.

00:34:34.000 Everything else.

00:34:35.000 That's fucking crazy. 1.00

00:34:37.000 That is crazy. 1.00

00:34:37.000 It's ridiculous, but you gotta think too. 1.00

00:34:39.000 We're off topic, but look at the Canadian kickboxing champions that have come out of Canada. 0.77

00:34:45.000 You had Simon Marcus.

00:34:47.000 You had, which again, I know one of your favorite fights was Joe Schilling.

00:34:50.000 Yeah, my God, what a fight.

00:34:52.000 That was insane.

00:34:54.000 Yeah, and then went to the fourth round, Joe knocked him out.

00:34:57.000 What a crazy fight.

00:34:58.000 What a crazy fight.

00:35:00.000 Yeah, you had Gabriel Varga, you had myself, now Matt Embry, Robert Thomas from Canada, and we're producing all of these crazy athletes, and we don't even have a professional system.

00:35:10.000 And it's crazy, because there hasn't been one U.S. glory champion.

00:35:15.000 Well, at one point in time, before MMA or before the UFC really got a foothold in Brazil, the Canada market was the biggest market for MMA. It was huge.

00:35:26.000 Outside of the United States.

00:35:27.000 The one show we had at the Rogers Center there?

00:35:30.000 70,000 people.

00:35:32.000 It was gigantic. 0.99

00:35:33.000 60,000, whatever the fuck it was. 1.00

00:35:34.000 It was nuts. 0.99

00:35:35.000 It was insane.

00:35:36.000 Yeah.

00:35:36.000 And that was also, a lot of it was because of George St. Pierre.

00:35:39.000 And George being such a great representative of Canada, a great representative of the UFC, and a great champion.

00:35:46.000 People flock to him.

00:35:47.000 It's one of the things about Canada is how loyal Canadian citizens are towards their fighters.

00:35:52.000 Oh, even if you watch Toronto Blue Jays, the Toronto Maple Leafs, man, we're passionate fans.

00:35:56.000 That's why kickboxing has to come there.

00:35:58.000 If we're gonna build it, there's talks about it.

00:36:00.000 So can Glory make something happen here? 0.99

00:36:02.000 There's talk about it.

00:36:03.000 Is this the rules here?

00:36:03.000 The fouls, administering a kick to the leg.

00:36:07.000 Spinning back fists are illegal?

00:36:09.000 Striking the face with any part of the arm.

00:36:11.000 Elbows are illegal.

00:36:13.000 Chopping to the back of the neck.

00:36:14.000 Oh, they watch too much Flintstones. 1.00

00:36:16.000 Fucking karate chop. 1.00

00:36:17.000 Striking a blow to the groin area. 1.00

00:36:19.000 Okay, butting with the head.

00:36:20.000 What's the top one, Jamie, number one?

00:36:22.000 Striking a blow with an elbow or a knee?

00:36:23.000 You can't strike a knee to the body?

00:36:25.000 See, I still don't get how it works.

00:36:26.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

00:36:28.000 But how did the UFC? I think it's what it's got to be.

00:36:30.000 I think you need a big chunk of money to kind of even get the commission to look at you.

00:36:35.000 So look at this.

00:36:37.000 Professional boxing where blows may be struck with both the fists and the feet.

00:36:42.000 That is weird.

00:36:43.000 So this is the same laws that apply to boxing.

00:36:47.000 They use for kickboxing, but you can only kick with the feet.

00:36:51.000 Now what if you kick someone with a head kick and you hit with a shin?

00:36:54.000 Is it illegal?

00:36:55.000 They don't even know that you're shin-kicking.

00:36:57.000 No one even knows.

00:36:58.000 They think you're kicking with feet.

00:36:59.000 That's hilarious.

00:37:01.000 Sweeping above the ankle.

00:37:02.000 So you can't even sweep someone. 0.85

00:37:05.000 It's ridiculous.

00:37:06.000 Above the ankle. 0.53

00:37:08.000 So you can't sweep right. 0.98

00:37:10.000 You can sweep shitty. 0.96

00:37:11.000 Yeah, that's right. 0.99

00:37:13.000 You can fight shitty, but it's okay. 0.98

00:37:15.000 Yeah, it's crazy. 0.99

00:37:16.000 Intentionally using the knee as a block.

00:37:19.000 I don't understand.

00:37:19.000 You can't block with a knee.

00:37:21.000 You can't check.

00:37:21.000 Well, you can't even kick below the waist, so I guess there's no need to block a low kick.

00:37:25.000 But what if you wanted a body kick?

00:37:27.000 You can't block with a body kick?

00:37:28.000 Oh my god.

00:37:30.000 Intentionally evading contact. 0.99

00:37:33.000 Boy, they got a lot of fucking wacky rules. 1.00

00:37:35.000 Striking a blow with an open glove. 0.98

00:37:37.000 The commissioner who was kind of really strict to this is now out, so let's see what changes.

00:37:42.000 Using abusive language.

00:37:43.000 No Nick Diaz fights in Canada, folks.

00:37:46.000 Disobeying the referee, going down intentionally, intentionally using the knee as a block.

00:37:50.000 Wow.

00:37:52.000 Extending the legs for the purpose of preventing an opponent from kicking.

00:37:55.000 What?!

00:37:57.000 Don't even ask. 0.99

00:37:58.000 What in the fuck is that? 0.99

00:38:00.000 It's messed up. 1.00

00:38:02.000 How weird is that?

00:38:03.000 Extending the leg for the purpose of preventing an opponent from kicking.

00:38:07.000 I'm guessing this was written in 1990. But that doesn't even make any sense.

00:38:11.000 Like, you can't even use a teep then.

00:38:13.000 Like, if you wanted to extend your leg, like, a teep is to extend the leg.

00:38:17.000 I mean, you're front-kicking a guy.

00:38:19.000 You're pushing him off.

00:38:20.000 You could say that that would...

00:38:21.000 I've been to one of the guys I train is Troy Sheridan.

00:38:26.000 He fought an above-the-weight kickboxing fight professionally.

00:38:29.000 He actually fought another old UFC fighter, Jesse Ronson.

00:38:33.000 Do you think he's fought twice on the UFC before he got released?

00:38:37.000 Jesse Ronson.

00:38:39.000 Who was, oh, Jean-Yves Theriot.

00:38:42.000 He was one of the best known Canadian kickboxers. 1.00

00:38:45.000 Yeah, he was a bad motherfucker, man. 0.99

00:38:47.000 Above the waist, yeah. 1.00

00:38:48.000 Above the waist kickboxer.

00:38:49.000 He was the man back in the day.

00:38:52.000 And he was one of the few guys that was like really exciting and would knock guys dead.

00:38:59.000 I didn't get to watch a lot of it, but I've done my research and watched a few of his fights after, and that's crazy.

00:39:05.000 I forgot about him for a long time, until just this conversation.

00:39:09.000 Well, you gotta think Rufus, Duke Rufus's brother.

00:39:12.000 Sure, yeah.

00:39:13.000 Rick Rufus, yeah.

00:39:14.000 Rick Rufus was...

00:39:16.000 One of the most popular, I would say.

00:39:18.000 Oh, for sure.

00:39:19.000 Well, he was so flashy, too.

00:39:20.000 He could do so many wild techniques inside the octagon.

00:39:23.000 Did you ever see the fight where he fought a TIE fighter?

00:39:25.000 Yes, I did.

00:39:26.000 Yeah.

00:39:27.000 Those low kicks, man.

00:39:28.000 That was an exciting fight, too.

00:39:29.000 But that was the first time.

00:39:30.000 Lawrence Kenshin did a breakdown of that.

00:39:31.000 His stuff's good.

00:39:31.000 He posted one with mine and Mark Dubon.

00:39:34.000 Yeah, he put a nice little, the way I set up that high kick, he's good.

00:39:37.000 Yeah, he's very good.

00:39:38.000 And it's interesting because that fight essentially changed a lot of people's ideas about low kicks.

00:39:46.000 Because even Duke Rufus, like they interviewed Rufus after the fight, I think he was like 19. And he's like, well, it doesn't take any talent to just kick the legs.

00:39:52.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:54.000 I remember.

00:39:54.000 That was crazy.

00:39:55.000 Everybody had this weird idea.

00:39:56.000 You gotta ask him about that.

00:39:58.000 Oh, I've talked to him about it many times now.

00:40:00.000 Now he's a huge low kick proponent.

00:40:02.000 He became a world Muay Thai champion.

00:40:04.000 He loves his low kicks.

00:40:05.000 I guess seeing his brother at such a young age.

00:40:08.000 Yeah.

00:40:09.000 But that opened up everyone's eyes to low kicks.

00:40:11.000 Oh, yeah, man.

00:40:12.000 But the low kick, see, people think like my style or the low kick style is like this new thing.

00:40:16.000 It's actually a really old concept that was kind of forgotten about.

00:40:21.000 And then there's only a few people that came and stuck true to that low kick style.

00:40:26.000 I think it's underrated, especially in MMA. And I think I'm going to bring it up about MMA. Everyone's like, yeah, but the takedowns.

00:40:33.000 A good low kick is based off timing.

00:40:35.000 If I'm going to sit there and I'm going to lead with a low kick against a wrestler, absolutely.

00:40:39.000 He's going to take me down every time.

00:40:41.000 But I think it's the timing of the low kick that people need to understand.

00:40:44.000 If someone's exiting backwards, that's your time for the low kick.

00:40:47.000 So if you put, especially in MMA where people can't really stand in the pocket, they move and they exit.

00:40:53.000 As soon as they get outside of punch range, that's perfect low kick timing.

00:40:57.000 You'll get so many free low kicks on MMA guys, and their legs aren't strong.

00:41:02.000 MMA guys aren't used to that body damage that kickboxers are. 0.99

00:41:07.000 And I remember my coach coached Gary Goodridge.

00:41:10.000 And Gary once told me, he's like, when he fought both kickboxing and MMA, he came back and said, he's like, I knew I can go to the after party when I fought MMA. But he goes, and after a kickboxing fight, he's like, I'm not getting out of my bed.

00:41:25.000 You gotta think how much shin-to-shin kickboxers go through compared to an MMA fight.

00:41:30.000 How often do you see a leg kick checked in the UFC? It's getting better.

00:41:35.000 It's getting better.

00:41:36.000 It's getting better.

00:41:36.000 But I agree with you, and that's another thing that people always complain about me, that I'm always calling for low kicks and saying I'd like to see more low kicks.

00:41:43.000 I'd like to see him kick his legs more.

00:41:44.000 But I think you're right, too, that it takes someone who understands Muay Thai at a very high level to be able to pull that off and do it in combination.

00:41:51.000 What you're seeing sometimes in MMA is you would see a lot during the George St. Pierre era where guys were afraid to kick because George was so good at timing.

00:42:00.000 Explosive.

00:42:01.000 But again...

00:42:01.000 Who was he fighting against?

00:42:03.000 He wasn't fighting against a guy who actually knew how to use it properly.

00:42:07.000 Yeah, and we don't really see that many people.

00:42:10.000 I mean, you have a few in the women's division. 1.00

00:42:12.000 Jose Aldo?

00:42:12.000 Would you say Jose Aldo?

00:42:13.000 Jose has spectacular leg kicks, no doubt about it. 0.92

00:42:16.000 And he was killing guys with it. 0.84

00:42:18.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:18.000 I mean, you look at the Uriah Faber fight.

00:42:21.000 It was horrendous.

00:42:21.000 I called that fight, and afterwards, you know, Uriah posted all these Instagram pictures and social media pictures.

00:42:27.000 Of that purple leg?

00:42:28.000 It was insane.

00:42:29.000 He had one leg twice the size.

00:42:31.000 Yeah.

00:42:31.000 I have a meme on my phone I keep sending because a lot of times in sparring, I'll smash my guy's legs and then I'll send them the picture being like, tag someone who doesn't know how to block a low kick and I just keep sending that picture out, mess around with everyone.

00:42:44.000 But yeah, it was brutal.

00:42:46.000 Brutal.

00:42:46.000 Now what happens to your leg?

00:42:48.000 Oh, there's Uriah's leg.

00:42:50.000 Yeah, he had to go in a hyperbaric chamber to try to lessen the injury, try to heal the injury quicker.

00:42:58.000 But people don't understand the damage they do.

00:43:01.000 It's like, hey, if every time you punch, I smash your leg, you're not going to want to punch me.

00:43:06.000 And that's the timing I use.

00:43:07.000 So as soon as someone jabs, you take the leg.

00:43:10.000 Because when someone punches, they have to put their weight on their front leg.

00:43:13.000 And once you put your weight on the front leg, you can no longer block at that point.

00:43:17.000 So if you watch any of my fights or guys with good low kicks, they usually time the low kick off the hands or the step.

00:43:23.000 Because every time you step, you've got to be heavy on your front foot, and that's the opportunity to hit that low kick.

00:43:29.000 So you want to look for what I call free low kicks, ones where they can't block.

00:43:32.000 So as they're exiting up or as they step in, you try to find those free ones when they're planted on their legs and they can't lift up their leg to block.

00:43:41.000 Jamie, put up, see if you can find Joe's fight with Raymond Daniels.

00:43:46.000 Because, like I said before, there was one of my, and I'm a big Raymond Daniels fan, by the way.

00:43:51.000 It's not a knock on him at all.

00:43:52.000 I think he's awesome.

00:43:53.000 And I think his style is very important.

00:43:56.000 Because it's very important to know that there is a guy who can do the kind of stuff that he can do.

00:44:00.000 It's incredible.

00:44:01.000 He does that jump, sidekick, spinning back kick.

00:44:04.000 That was against Francois Ombang.

00:44:06.000 Woo! 0.99

00:44:06.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:44:07.000 I mean he does a lot of wild shit inside the octagon and so this fight to me was a really important fight for just martial arts strategy and Technique to to see how a guy like you who's you know super high-level guy deals with a guy who's completely unorthodox in terms of traditional kickboxing techniques He's got a style that is impossible to emulate inside the gym.

00:44:34.000 And again, I fought Kareem Gaji over 100 fights. 0.91

00:44:37.000 Nicky Holtzkin over 100 fights.

00:44:39.000 I fought Mark Dubon over 100 fights.

00:44:42.000 He was probably the fighter I was most scared to fight. 0.99

00:44:44.000 Because of all this wild shit? 0.99

00:44:46.000 I'm like, man, the last thing I want to be is part of a knockout reel of Raymond Daniels spinning hook kick knocking me the frig out. 1.00

00:44:53.000 So, I mean, I was scared, man.

00:44:55.000 So, at this point, even in round one, it was just like, what the heck is this guy going to do?

00:44:59.000 I had no idea what the heck this guy was going to do.

00:45:02.000 One of the things I really love about watching you fight, too, is you always have a very high guard.

00:45:06.000 Very high guard, very good fundamentals.

00:45:08.000 And even when you're doing those training sequences that you put on Instagram...

00:45:13.000 Everything you do, your guard is high, you're doing everything by the book.

00:45:18.000 Solid basics.

00:45:19.000 The key.

00:45:19.000 Who was your original trainer?

00:45:21.000 My original trainer is Paul Minhas, and that was the one who trained Gary Goodridge through K1 and Pride.

00:45:27.000 But yeah, Paul Minhas, he's the one who really developed my low kick style, and I just was able to really put it together and showcase his strategy of low kicks.

00:45:38.000 The way he used to explain it is that people think a low kick is a low kick, but it's not.

00:45:43.000 You've got to think where on the shin are you landing the low kick, right?

00:45:47.000 If you land more of the lower part of your shin, that's more of a setup.

00:45:51.000 You might want to use your low kick to set up your hands.

00:45:53.000 You might want to have it as a feeler, just as a distraction.

00:45:57.000 If you start landing higher up on the shin, those are more finished low kicks.

00:46:01.000 The angle you throw it at, the timing you throw it at.

00:46:04.000 So when Paul was training me, he would kind of classify like nine different low kicks.

00:46:10.000 It's based on where on the leg it's hitting and where on your shin you're landing.

00:46:14.000 So there's so much more.

00:46:15.000 It's like a jab.

00:46:16.000 There's not just up jabs, there's jab with your head off on angles, there's low jabs, high jabs.

00:46:23.000 Each jab has a different purpose and same thing with a low kick.

00:46:27.000 You just lit him up with that leg kick, and you saw that little limp that guys start doing.

00:46:32.000 Once you start landing these big shots to the legs, you slow him down considerably.

00:46:38.000 What did you do to prepare for his movement and this front leg style?

00:46:43.000 He was throwing a lot of front leg sidekicks to your front leg. 0.53

00:46:46.000 This fight, what a lot of people don't see when you fight, a lot of it is ring control.

00:46:52.000 You can't just chase Raymond Downs.

00:46:54.000 You have to get him against the ropes.

00:46:57.000 You gotta corner him.

00:46:58.000 And if you see when he blitzes, I don't move back.

00:47:02.000 If you move back, you give him an exit and an opportunity to escape.

00:47:07.000 Where if you stay, see when he blitzes, I stay right in his pocket and it opens up the low kick.

00:47:11.000 And you're forcing him to move backwards as well, which is very tiring.

00:47:15.000 Yeah.

00:47:15.000 Most people get way more tired moving back than they do moving forward.

00:47:20.000 It seems like you're both fighting at the same pace, but he's doing more work.

00:47:23.000 Well, this round was more of a feel-out round, and you've got to remember, after this fight, I fought Nikki Holtzke.

00:47:28.000 Yeah.

00:47:28.000 Same night.

00:47:29.000 It's 20 minutes later. 1.00

00:47:31.000 Fucking crazy. 0.99

00:47:31.000 20 minutes later. 0.99

00:47:32.000 I'm not a fan of that.

00:47:33.000 I really am not.

00:47:34.000 I personally don't.

00:47:36.000 You've got to think, your brain is still shook up from that first fight, not fully recovered, and in my opinion, the best fighter doesn't necessarily come out on top.

00:47:45.000 In tournaments, yeah.

00:47:46.000 Too many variables.

00:47:47.000 Yeah.

00:47:47.000 Well, it's crazy.

00:47:48.000 It's fun to watch.

00:47:49.000 It's exciting when you're watching it, because it builds up to one eventual champion, and you get to watch all these fights take place during the night.

00:47:56.000 But I think, especially, you're getting hurt, and then you're recovering a little bit, and then going back in again, and you're still busted up from the first fight.

00:48:03.000 I probably lost a good ten years of my life after that night, but what are you gonna do?

00:48:07.000 Yeah, but there used to be eight-man tournaments.

00:48:09.000 Yeah.

00:48:10.000 Eight-man tournaments.

00:48:11.000 Yeah, that's three fights in one night.

00:48:12.000 Did you fight Nikki Holtzkin twice?

00:48:14.000 Just once.

00:48:15.000 Just once.

00:48:16.000 Just once.

00:48:16.000 And one night, you gotta think, I got one of the knockouts of the year in this fight, and I got the fight of the year.

00:48:22.000 Nicky and I won fight of the year that year, where we just sat and exchanged combinations for three rounds.

00:48:27.000 No, it was an awesome fight.

00:48:29.000 Now, there you see, like, he's starting to limp.

00:48:31.000 Now, did you bring anybody in that kicks like this, that throws those front leg sidekicks and the hopping kicks?

00:48:37.000 You know what?

00:48:38.000 It was very tough.

00:48:39.000 I experimented with a Taekwondo guy, and it just wasn't the same.

00:48:44.000 And the problem is, a lot of these karate guys, they can't handle that constant pressure.

00:48:49.000 They're used to guys standing, keeping distance with them, letting them kick, but...

00:48:54.000 I was too much of a bully for those guys.

00:48:56.000 I was able to just stay in the pocket.

00:48:58.000 They'd try to throw spinning kicks. 0.99

00:48:59.000 I would just push them on the ground.

00:49:01.000 They couldn't handle the constant strong pressure style.

00:49:05.000 It's definitely interesting to watch how it's so much more...

00:49:10.000 Yeah, there it is over and over again.

00:49:11.000 You're seeing him limping now and you're noticing him as you're fighting.

00:49:14.000 You're noticing that and you keep hitting that same spot.

00:49:17.000 Now he's moving.

00:49:18.000 He's standing southpaw now.

00:49:20.000 You can tell he's done.

00:49:21.000 He mixes it up a little bit.

00:49:22.000 I mean, he does switch his stances, but you can see he's really trying to protect that left leg now.

00:49:28.000 He's keeping it back.

00:49:29.000 Now, when you did bring in those guys, was there anything that they could show you about how to avoid those kicks or how to move away from them?

00:49:38.000 It was more of just kind of like, hey, this is kind of the distance and the setup.

00:49:41.000 These are the kind of few things you need to look at.

00:49:43.000 But I was really...

00:49:46.000 In my fight career, which I kind of have a different philosophy now, now that I'm a coach a lot more and I'm looking at fighting a little bit differently.

00:49:54.000 But here I knew I was gonna fight my fight.

00:49:57.000 He had to fight my way.

00:50:00.000 If not, he was gonna be in trouble.

00:50:02.000 That was three in a row.

00:50:03.000 Boom, boom, boom.

00:50:04.000 Just chopping, chopping at that leg. 1.00

00:50:06.000 To me, this is like the fight that I show people.

00:50:09.000 When I show people the difference between a really good Muay Thai fighter who's fighting a guy who throws a lot of flashy stuff but doesn't really know the low kick game.

00:50:19.000 And he throws those things but there's not a lot of threat outside those spinning attacks.

00:50:24.000 He does have that explosive left hand but...

00:50:26.000 Good defense.

00:50:27.000 You can shut that down really good.

00:50:29.000 Well, he was a great karate point fighter, but his boxing has come a long way since this fight.

00:50:35.000 I think he learned a lot about a lot of things in this fight, but his hands weren't the big threat.

00:50:41.000 That's one of the things that differentiates him from Wonderboy.

00:50:45.000 Also, Wonderboy is obviously fighting with smaller gloves, but Wonderboy has nasty hands.

00:50:49.000 So if Wonderboy and Raymond Daniels were to fight in kickboxing, who wins?

00:50:54.000 That's an interesting question.

00:50:55.000 You know, I mean, Wonderboy's undefeated in kickboxing.

00:50:59.000 See, those are the other things I don't know.

00:51:01.000 I'm like, you hear about this guy.

00:51:03.000 He's like, oh yeah, he's undefeated as a kickboxer.

00:51:06.000 It's like, hey, we're the same weight.

00:51:08.000 If you're undefeated, how come we never heard of each other or saw each other?

00:51:12.000 What happens with a lot of these guys?

00:51:15.000 And with kickboxing, there's so many different organizations.

00:51:18.000 So you'll see guys that'll come around and say, hey, I'm a 10-time world champion.

00:51:21.000 I'm like, okay, where?

00:51:24.000 I think there's one world champion that matters right now in its glory.

00:51:28.000 So any other belt than that, to me, I don't think you're a world champion.

00:51:31.000 Well, what about Lion Fight?

00:51:33.000 What about Muay Thai?

00:51:34.000 It's a different class, I would say.

00:51:36.000 Muay Thai and kickboxing are very different.

00:51:38.000 What do you like better?

00:51:40.000 I'm a straight kickboxer.

00:51:41.000 And why do you like kickboxing better than Muay Thai?

00:51:44.000 Because I like to rely on pace, more aggression, and more...

00:51:49.000 I'm a combination-style fighter, so I like to always mix up kicks and punches, punches and kicks.

00:51:54.000 I fought two full rules-time fights.

00:51:57.000 One of them was a French fighter who...

00:52:00.000 It was, again, my sixth professional fight.

00:52:03.000 It was his, like, 70th.

00:52:05.000 And he came in, he was just, I beat him up on the outside.

00:52:08.000 But as soon as he came close, he clinched up with me, elbows, elbows, elbows, and he split my head open. 0.89

00:52:13.000 Six weeks later, I fought, and it's actually on YouTube, I fought Medi Baghdad.

00:52:18.000 That would be a cool one for you to watch.

00:52:21.000 And I put a little clip on if you want to find it after this one.

00:52:23.000 It's literally like, I made it into like a two minute clip. 0.51

00:52:26.000 And it's just beating the crap out of him.

00:52:30.000 And he landed two elbows. 0.63

00:52:31.000 And I got like 30 stitches at the end of that fight.

00:52:33.000 Covered in blood.

00:52:35.000 I got like a three inch gash in my head.

00:52:37.000 I had five stitches off my eyes.

00:52:39.000 He landed two elbows.

00:52:40.000 Two strikes basically the whole fight.

00:52:42.000 And those two strikes were the damaging ones.

00:52:45.000 Wow.

00:52:46.000 Which I mean, okay, it's cool.

00:52:47.000 I knew I wanted to be a kickboxer, so I never focused on my elbows.

00:52:50.000 Could I be a Muay Thai champion?

00:52:52.000 Absolutely.

00:52:53.000 But my focus was on kickboxing and, at that point, to get into the K-1 Max.

00:52:58.000 Right.

00:52:58.000 Right?

00:52:58.000 I wanted to fight the Zambidis.

00:53:00.000 I wanted to fight all of the, you know, the bull cows. 0.93

00:53:03.000 I wanted to fight those guys.

00:53:05.000 So my focus was always on kickboxing from...

00:53:09.000 The day I started.

00:53:10.000 Well, that was the big organization.

00:53:13.000 K-1 was the big organization that kind of opened up kickboxing to the world.

00:53:17.000 And Japan did an amazing job of that.

00:53:19.000 And then they had, of course, It's Showtime.

00:53:21.000 And It's Showtime ran for a while.

00:53:23.000 They became glory, right?

00:53:25.000 Yeah, there's part of it.

00:53:26.000 They shut down.

00:53:27.000 The problem is there was a lot of problems happening in Holland.

00:53:30.000 There was a lot of illegal stuff happening.

00:53:34.000 Illegal?

00:53:34.000 Is this the finish right here?

00:53:35.000 Yeah, you're battering him now.

00:53:37.000 Just the amount of shots.

00:53:39.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:53:40.000 Head kick.

00:53:41.000 It's over. 0.67

00:53:41.000 The amount of shots that he took to the legs. 0.67

00:53:44.000 Now, when you were saying that MMA fighters, they don't have the toughness of the legs.

00:53:49.000 They're not used to taking the punishment in the legs.

00:53:51.000 What is the difference?

00:53:52.000 Like, how does your legs get tougher from getting kicked?

00:53:54.000 Well, it's like if you look at martial arts in your body, your body is your armor.

00:54:00.000 So you got to look at your body as armor.

00:54:01.000 If you don't strengthen that armor, you're only as strong as your armor can hold, right?

00:54:05.000 So if you're not training your body to get hit, you can't really take as much damage.

00:54:12.000 So if you're constantly taking low kicks every day in training, you build up that endurance and that tolerance and that strength to be able to take hard low kicks.

00:54:21.000 But a lot of guys, if you're not used to that, taking hard arm kicks.

00:54:24.000 My first professional fight, I left with like welts on my forearm.

00:54:28.000 My knees would be swollen.

00:54:30.000 I couldn't even get my shoe on after the fight because everything was just so swollen.

00:54:34.000 And you just take so much damage on the body that eventually it hardens and it gets stronger.

00:54:39.000 And like, I mean, you got to look at our shins and our kickboxes and Muay Thai shins.

00:54:43.000 We're going through bats, whatever you want.

00:54:45.000 We're just constantly kicking things where...

00:54:47.000 In MMA, there's not as much focus on conditioning and hardening the body because you don't need it as much.

00:54:53.000 But what does condition the legs to take that kind of punishment?

00:54:56.000 Just constant hitting.

00:54:58.000 Use in years of training or getting someone to constantly lightly touch your legs, build up the tolerance.

00:55:04.000 You've got to build a strong armor to be able to withstand that.

00:55:08.000 Whatever damage...

00:55:09.000 What I'm confused about, though, is what is the physical response that your body has to getting fixed in all those spots?

00:55:15.000 Well, I know the shin, for example.

00:55:17.000 Every time you shin, there's those micro-fractures that then calcify, which then cause the shin to harden.

00:55:23.000 And again, even if the difference between my right and left shin, my right shin is probably double the size of my left one because I use my right shin a lot more.

00:55:31.000 Really?

00:55:31.000 Yeah.

00:55:32.000 So I mean it's just constant years of training your body to do it.

00:55:36.000 But what about the thigh?

00:55:37.000 Like what about your quads and all the legs?

00:55:39.000 I don't know.

00:55:40.000 I wonder what it is.

00:55:40.000 Is it nerves?

00:55:42.000 Are your nerves able to withstand the pain?

00:55:45.000 Yeah.

00:55:46.000 But it's a big difference and it's weird because I've been doing it so long where I can usually stand in front of you, give you like little leg taps and I can kind of see how hard your body is if you can withstand a low kick or not.

00:55:57.000 It's a feeling mechanism.

00:55:59.000 So you feel how they're responding?

00:56:01.000 Well yeah, how soft it is, how they put their weight, their pressure on it.

00:56:04.000 You can tell.

00:56:05.000 You can really tell.

00:56:06.000 And when you fight someone, and that's where those guys that have 100 professional fights have that, there's a lot of wear and tear, but those guys have a body armor that really takes a lot to try to damage, you know, those forearms or those leg kicks or,

00:56:22.000 you know, there's just years of accumulated damage and the body hardens up.

00:56:26.000 It is weird because, like, you see some of the ties that just blast each other and you're watching them low kick each other and you never see them limping.

00:56:33.000 No.

00:56:33.000 You know, I mean, then you see this fight that you had with Raymond, and you see, like, after, you know, a minute, two in the fight, when you kept chopping.

00:56:41.000 There was one moment in the fight in the first round.

00:56:42.000 I remember watching it live.

00:56:44.000 And you caught him with one low kick in the first round.

00:56:46.000 I went, uh-oh.

00:56:47.000 There it goes.

00:56:48.000 You see that little dip?

00:56:49.000 You know, bam!

00:56:50.000 And you see the little dip that their body gives?

00:56:51.000 Like, oh, this is not good.

00:56:53.000 And you gotta think, I've probably sparred with thousands and thousands of different MMA fighters, and as soon as we start sparring, I'll tap the leg once, tap the leg twice, three times, and they're like, no, no, no, can you lay off the leg?

00:57:03.000 I'm just like, okay, alright, cool, yeah, I guess so.

00:57:07.000 I'll just hit the other leg, and if I don't hit the other leg, I'll hit your body. 0.60

00:57:11.000 But I mean, yeah, it's a different type of body conditioning. 0.54

00:57:14.000 Is there any way to do it other than just getting kicked there?

00:57:18.000 I mean, does anybody... 0.56

00:57:19.000 I don't think so.

00:57:19.000 Not that I know.

00:57:20.000 I think it's just years of accumulation.

00:57:22.000 I've heard of dudes rolling Coke bottles on their shins. 0.56

00:57:25.000 I don't know if that...

00:57:26.000 Does that even work?

00:57:26.000 I've tried to find research on that.

00:57:28.000 I don't think so.

00:57:30.000 I did it when I was young.

00:57:31.000 I'm like, hey, look at me.

00:57:32.000 I'm putting a rolling pin over my shin, but I guess it kind of takes out the nerve damage a little bit.

00:57:37.000 I don't know.

00:57:38.000 Oh, the nerve endings.

00:57:39.000 The nerve endings, try to numb them out a bit.

00:57:41.000 I don't know.

00:57:43.000 Yeah, it is interesting.

00:57:45.000 It's interesting because it doesn't necessarily make sense.

00:57:48.000 Like when it comes to the muscle of the thighs.

00:57:51.000 It's got to come down to nerve.

00:57:53.000 It's not really bone that's getting stronger.

00:57:56.000 I would love to talk to a doctor who understands Muay Thai.

00:58:00.000 You'd be good.

00:58:01.000 Do you know anybody that's like a doctor that trains?

00:58:03.000 I'll start.

00:58:03.000 I'll find it.

00:58:04.000 I'll tweet you out the answer, man.

00:58:05.000 I'll find it.

00:58:06.000 Yeah, because it definitely seems like, I mean, especially like we said, the Thais, these guys that have 100 plus fights, and you see them getting low kicked, and it doesn't seem to affect them at all.

00:58:14.000 I mean, it's landing, it's an effective strike, but the difference between the way it would affect them versus the way it affects a person who's never been low kicked before.

00:58:22.000 It's interesting.

00:58:23.000 It's the most underrated technique in all of martial arts, I think.

00:58:27.000 I agree.

00:58:28.000 Because until you've been low-kicked, like, once you get low-kicked once, you go, oh, Jesus.

00:58:32.000 And, you know, it's usually when you're at those parties and you're drunk.

00:58:36.000 It's like, oh, those leg kicks don't hurt.

00:58:37.000 Oh, my God.

00:58:38.000 Those low kicks don't hurt. 0.79

00:58:39.000 And then all of a sudden, they're like, just give them one.

00:58:41.000 And I was like, no.

00:58:43.000 You don't want one.

00:58:44.000 I was actually messing with someone once, and I was like, Bruce Lee had the one-inch punch.

00:58:49.000 And I was like, I'll give you a one-inch low kick, and you won't walk for a month.

00:58:52.000 And he didn't believe it.

00:58:54.000 I'll give anyone, if anyone listening wants to have a one-inch low kick.

00:58:58.000 How do you set it up?

00:58:59.000 What do you do?

00:58:59.000 All I gotta do is put literally my shin one inch away and just bang!

00:59:04.000 Done.

00:59:04.000 So like...

00:59:05.000 It's hitting the right part.

00:59:06.000 You gotta know where to hit.

00:59:07.000 So you would have like...

00:59:09.000 A bent leg.

00:59:10.000 Almost like you're throwing a kick, like a controlled kick and stopping at them when you stop right before.

00:59:14.000 Yeah, right there.

00:59:14.000 And I'll just go, boom, right on that part.

00:59:17.000 I'm telling you, man.

00:59:17.000 I'm telling you.

00:59:18.000 One-inch low kicks.

00:59:19.000 I'm gonna start it.

00:59:20.000 You should.

00:59:21.000 You should make a video about it.

00:59:22.000 The one-inch low kick, I will.

00:59:23.000 One-inch low kick challenge.

00:59:24.000 I bet you I'm gonna do it.

00:59:26.000 Now, you were saying earlier, and I wanted to go back to this, that your thoughts on fighting have changed from being a fighter to being a coach.

00:59:33.000 How so?

00:59:34.000 Because I think right now I had, when I was fighting, I had to have a one-dimensional approach.

00:59:38.000 What worked for me?

00:59:39.000 And now as a coach, someone asked me the question.

00:59:44.000 A new student who's very talented comes to your gym.

00:59:48.000 He's not strong.

00:59:50.000 He's not really as athletic as you.

00:59:53.000 He doesn't have the training background as you.

00:59:55.000 How do you make that guy a world champion?

00:59:58.000 And I was like, huh, that's interesting.

01:00:00.000 I'm like, he's not big, he's not strong, so he's not going to be a great pressure fighter that's going to be able to withstand a lot of damage.

01:00:06.000 So what happened?

01:00:07.000 So I wanted to create a system of fighting that is kind of universal.

01:00:11.000 I don't really want to have...

01:00:12.000 I want to have a system in my fighting at Bazooka Kickboxing that you can go into a street fight, you can go into an MMA fight, you can kickbox.

01:00:20.000 You've got to have that knowledge and the skill set to be able to fight everything.

01:00:24.000 And that's my goal as a coach right now, is to make a universal system that can handle anything.

01:00:30.000 So if you've got a pressure fight versus move, if you've got to keep distance, if you need to jab or box, you've got to be able to have it all.

01:00:36.000 I don't agree anymore too much with a one-dimensional approach.

01:00:40.000 But the one-dimensional approach was good for you as a fighter because you found out where your skills were more directed.

01:00:47.000 The way I look at it is I was an exceptional case.

01:00:51.000 I'm an exceptional athlete that was gifted with a strong body, strong mind, good dedication, very motivated.

01:00:58.000 So it all worked in my favor.

01:01:00.000 But now I have a guy who's fighting amateur kickboxing.

01:01:03.000 How do I train that guy to be successful?

01:01:06.000 Do you think that that helps you as a fighter?

01:01:08.000 Huge!

01:01:08.000 Because I know a lot of jujitsu guys, they start coaching, and once they start coaching and teaching lessons, their game just jumps.

01:01:16.000 It was being a color commentator.

01:01:18.000 That helps a lot?

01:01:19.000 Huge.

01:01:20.000 Like, I gotta show you, like, after whatever, I'll show you my notes on what I do, and I'd be interested to see your thoughts on it.

01:01:26.000 Do you write your own notes for the events?

01:01:28.000 Notes as far as...

01:01:29.000 Like your fighter notes, or are you now just experienced enough to know about the fighters?

01:01:33.000 It depends entirely on who the fighters are, because many, many times I'm watching a guy fight for the first time.

01:01:39.000 And if I've never seen someone before, what I like to do is I like to watch some YouTube videos of them.

01:01:44.000 I like to watch them fight.

01:01:46.000 I read what their background is.

01:01:48.000 So you do do a lot of research still that you have.

01:01:50.000 See, I say I don't do any research because I would have done it anyway.

01:01:56.000 I'll do research for glory.

01:01:58.000 I don't work for glory.

01:01:58.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:02:01.000 You're a fan.

01:02:01.000 Yes.

01:02:02.000 Say if there's a big fight coming up.

01:02:05.000 Here's a perfect example.

01:02:09.000 Holly Holm, Jermaine Durandamy.

01:02:10.000 They're gonna fight for the UFC featherweight title.

01:02:13.000 Yeah, I saw the promo for that, yeah.

01:02:14.000 And what's interesting to me is Jermaine Durandamy is a multiple-time world Muay Thai champion and who's had a hard time dealing with the clinch, dealing with people taking her down, dealing with the other aspects of MMA. She's trying to find her groove.

01:02:24.000 Dutch girl, right? 0.90

01:02:25.000 Yes, Dutch girl, nasty striker, real tall, long... 1.00

01:02:28.000 I saw her, was it UFC 200?

01:02:31.000 Was she in that?

01:02:32.000 I don't know.

01:02:33.000 Or was it the Brazil card with Cyborg or something?

01:02:36.000 She looked vicious. 0.52

01:02:37.000 She's vicious. 1.00

01:02:38.000 She's a very, very good striker. 0.95

01:02:40.000 So what I'm curious, it's very interesting because, you know, Holly, who looked like a fucking dynamo when she fought Ronda, because Ronda fought the absolute worst kind of fight that you could fight with Holly. 0.96

01:02:51.000 Run right at her. 0.95

01:02:52.000 Go straight, go at her. 1.00

01:02:53.000 Yeah.

01:02:54.000 I mean, she wanted to bully her, and you just can't.

01:02:56.000 You know, Holly's so good at evasion, so good at using angles, and so good at stopping and then countering. 1.00

01:03:03.000 Straight punching.

01:03:03.000 Straight punching, and that weird oblique kick that a lot of the Winklejohn guys like to do to the thigh.

01:03:09.000 Do you use that kick at all?

01:03:10.000 Not really.

01:03:11.000 It's a weird kick, right?

01:03:12.000 A lot of guys use that kick.

01:03:16.000 There's some guys that really know how to land that well, and I'm starting to see it.

01:03:23.000 I'm thinking, man, it's...

01:03:26.000 It's an interesting kick, but the Winklejohn guys in particular, or gals too, Hawley is really good at that.

01:03:32.000 It's like the front kick.

01:03:34.000 It's when Anderson Silva knocked out Belfort, and everyone was like, whoa, the front kick!

01:03:40.000 Look at this amazing new weapon!

01:03:41.000 It's probably the first kick ever taught in traditional martial arts.

01:03:46.000 It's just, he made it so popular, and then all of a sudden you see it as a new trend where everyone started throwing front kicks to the face.

01:03:52.000 It became like a new popular little trend there for a little bit that hey look front kicks work again It's just they were forgotten about and that's what I'm hoping with the low kick they were forgotten about and they come back Yeah, I think there's room for a lot of different kicks in MMA that aren't there yet And one of them that we're seeing in some organizations is axe kicks And I saw some well there was that guy that was fighting in MMA for a while.

01:04:17.000 Did you ever see Adlon Amagov?

01:04:21.000 He was a wild fighter, man.

01:04:24.000 He's no longer part of the UFC? No, he retired.

01:04:26.000 He stopped fighting in MMA. But he was really talented, man.

01:04:30.000 He knocked out...

01:04:31.000 Was it TJ Wahlberger, I believe, in the UFC? With an axe kick?

01:04:36.000 No.

01:04:36.000 I forget what he kicked him with and punched him with, too.

01:04:39.000 But he had wicked kicks and incredible flexibility.

01:04:44.000 So he had this ability to...

01:04:47.000 You know, utilize techniques that you don't necessarily think of as knockout techniques, but he would, you know, smash guys with axe kicks and front kicks and round kicks and just...

01:04:57.000 For those, uh, the kickboxing fans listening, Andy Hoog?

01:05:00.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:05:02.000 Spinning hook.

01:05:08.000 He fought in the UFC twice.

01:05:12.000 He fought in Strikeforce once.

01:05:14.000 He has a kickboxing finish with a spinning heel kick to the leg.

01:05:17.000 I saw that.

01:05:18.000 Yeah, his wheel kicks are nasty, man.

01:05:21.000 What about that other kid on the last UFC? Yair, is it?

01:05:24.000 Yair Rodriguez, yeah.

01:05:26.000 That was hard to watch.

01:05:29.000 Yeah, it was very tough to watch, but the kid's incredible.

01:05:31.000 Oh, he 360 roundhouse kicked BJ Penn in the face.

01:05:34.000 I don't know how BJ didn't go down.

01:05:36.000 Oh, BJ's got an iron chin, man.

01:05:38.000 Yeah.

01:05:39.000 Lorenz Larkin.

01:05:40.000 Pull up Lorenz Larkin versus...

01:05:43.000 Who did he stop?

01:05:48.000 What is Lorenz Larkin's... 0.99

01:05:50.000 God damn it. 0.98

01:05:50.000 Why can't I remember this right now? 0.98

01:05:52.000 John Howard?

01:05:53.000 No.

01:05:54.000 Okay.

01:05:55.000 Lorenz Larkin's recent fights.

01:05:57.000 Okay.

01:05:58.000 Neil Magny, Jesus Christ.

01:06:00.000 Pull up Lorenz Larkin, Neil Magny, because I want to show him that oblique kick to the body.

01:06:05.000 One of my guys out there that's in the green room, Matt Special, he actually sent me the fight.

01:06:10.000 I was too busy with glory notes, but he sent me that exact fight to watch. 0.99

01:06:14.000 Lorenz Larkin is a motherfucker, dude. 0.99

01:06:16.000 He's really good. 1.00

01:06:17.000 And he does a lot of spinning wheel kicks to the thigh, too. 1.00

01:06:21.000 He does a lot of wild shit. 1.00

01:06:22.000 Why not? 1.00

01:06:23.000 I think any kick should be able to be thrown at different levels.

01:06:26.000 Sure.

01:06:27.000 And that's what makes that kick more effective.

01:06:29.000 Yeah.

01:06:29.000 If you're constantly going at one level, it becomes easy to defend.

01:06:32.000 So you've got to change the levels.

01:06:33.000 That's why, same thing as southpaws. 1.00

01:06:36.000 Guys don't kick enough from a southpaw. 1.00

01:06:38.000 Or if they do, it's constantly one leg.

01:06:41.000 It's either the inside leg.

01:06:42.000 They're not attacking the back legs, the bodies, the heads.

01:06:45.000 You've got to change levels.

01:06:46.000 Not enough self-pause or changing levels with that left kick.

01:06:49.000 Do you experiment or use any traditional martial arts techniques?

01:06:53.000 Like, do you ever throw side kicks or spinning kicks?

01:06:55.000 Not anymore.

01:06:57.000 I've really been taught to keep really tight on a shield, but now my whole style has actually been trying to add dimensions to it.

01:07:08.000 So I've been boxing a lot more.

01:07:09.000 And even though, yeah, I've had the concussions, it doesn't mean I stopped being a martial artist.

01:07:13.000 This is when my real martial arts training has evolved.

01:07:17.000 When I was fighting, I couldn't do all this stuff when I was fighting.

01:07:19.000 I didn't have time to sit there.

01:07:21.000 For example, the last three months, I fought Southpaw.

01:07:24.000 I've been training Southpaw.

01:07:25.000 It's a new dimension to my game, so now's the time I get to be a full-time martial artist and learn.

01:07:31.000 Watch how he throws this oblique kick to the body.

01:07:34.000 Back up a little bit, because this is the end of the fight.

01:07:36.000 He's setting it up with the low kick?

01:07:38.000 Well, he sets it up with everything, but what's interesting is the distance where he throws this oblique kick.

01:07:44.000 He throws it like right there.

01:07:45.000 Boom.

01:07:46.000 See how he throws it?

01:07:46.000 It's crazy.

01:07:47.000 It's kind of like heel in, toe out.

01:07:49.000 Yeah, heel in, toe out.

01:07:51.000 And he's so fast with it.

01:07:53.000 Do you know why I like that?

01:07:54.000 Because if the elbow's in, it gets the foot probably just outside of the elbow or inside.

01:07:59.000 It kind of follows the inside forearm nicely.

01:08:02.000 Yeah, Lorenz is the best I've ever seen, throwing that kick, and throwing it right in there.

01:08:07.000 He tried.

01:08:07.000 He tried right there and missed, but he throws it from tight quarters, and guys think he's gonna throw low kicks, so he mixes it up with that, he's using the low kick, and then he sets it up with either the oblique kick or the low kick, and he constantly varies him.

01:08:21.000 Because that kick traditionally is meant to hit with the heel, right?

01:08:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:08:26.000 I mean, he's hitting it with the heel.

01:08:28.000 But it's so weird to look at because you're like, oh yeah, you can do that too.

01:08:32.000 His setup is unreal with the low kick though.

01:08:35.000 Yes, yes.

01:08:35.000 His setup is great.

01:08:36.000 And this was a great fight for him because, you know, I knew Lorenz was super talented before this, but Neil Magny was a highly rated guy and Lorenz just ran through him.

01:08:47.000 I mean, is the difference in the striking?

01:08:49.000 Magny is a really good all-around fighter.

01:08:51.000 He's really well-rounded.

01:08:53.000 He's got incredible endurance, but...

01:08:56.000 What Lorenzo's able to do is avoid all this stuff, avoid the ground game, keep the fight in his wheelhouse, which is in the stand-up, and just show how much more technical he is on his feet and how much quicker he is at closing the gap.

01:09:07.000 And he's staying long, too, right?

01:09:09.000 Yeah, and he's fighting a tall guy, too.

01:09:12.000 Yeah, if you think about it, if Larkin's got the shorter arms, why is he going to sit there and want to box with a guy with longer arms?

01:09:19.000 You've got to change your distance and the low kick's perfect.

01:09:21.000 It worked set up perfectly.

01:09:23.000 Now back to, oh, that's it.

01:09:25.000 Now back to Muay Thai and elbows. 0.91

01:09:29.000 Don't you think that elbows are, well obviously they're really effective.

01:09:34.000 You know and elbows and elbows from the clinch and knees from the clinch are obviously a really effective techniques Why do you like rules that don't have those in?

01:09:42.000 I remember listening to your podcast and someone asked I think you were talking about how you feel Muay Thai is like the purest art of stand-up fighting and It makes sense.

01:09:51.000 I like all fighting.

01:09:53.000 I like MMA. You know, obviously.

01:09:55.000 Love it.

01:09:56.000 I think MMA is probably my favorite thing to watch.

01:09:58.000 But what I like about Muay Thai is when you're seeing the clinch, you're using all the potential weapons from inside that position.

01:10:06.000 Whereas in kickboxing, they will separate you.

01:10:09.000 For me personally, why I don't like the clinch, it slows the fight down.

01:10:13.000 I'm not saying it's because you can be a crappy outside fighter, but be so strong and dominant in the clinch and win all your fights in the clinch.

01:10:22.000 Right.

01:10:23.000 So, I mean, I think it's just a rule set.

01:10:25.000 And, I mean, each guy's going to be different from what they're good at or not good at.

01:10:31.000 It's how you train.

01:10:32.000 You have to change your style.

01:10:34.000 You have to change.

01:10:35.000 Even if I were to fight, we talked about kickboxing and MMA, you have to change your style.

01:10:40.000 But even if you fight between kickboxing and Muay Thai, you have to change quite a bit.

01:10:44.000 You have to stay longer.

01:10:46.000 If you're a fighter like myself who doesn't want to get into the clinch, you have to fight differently.

01:10:50.000 You have to use triangle stepping in your footwork.

01:10:52.000 You've got to use more distance.

01:10:53.000 You've got to stay away.

01:10:55.000 I can maybe only throw a A 2-3 hit combination before I have to exit and move again because I know he's going to try to grab me and clinch me and slice me up with his elbows.

01:11:05.000 Is there a more difficult transition?

01:11:06.000 Do you think that the transition between kickboxing and Muay Thai is more difficult or the transition between Muay Thai and kickboxing?

01:11:12.000 Because we're seeing a lot of Muay Thai champions that are now entering into kickboxing.

01:11:16.000 I'm going to say kickboxing to Muay Thai.

01:11:18.000 More difficult.

01:11:20.000 It's more difficult.

01:11:20.000 Why's that?

01:11:21.000 Because you're adding all these new weapons.

01:11:25.000 So you all of a sudden now have these weapons that you're not used to.

01:11:28.000 Where with Muay Thai, you kind of take away some, but you still have your other weapons that are effective.

01:11:34.000 And I had this conversation with a lot of the Muay Thai fighters.

01:11:36.000 They were saying how you got to look at the success of...

01:11:40.000 Muay Thai fighters in kickboxing.

01:11:42.000 You have Siddichai, Sitsong Pinong, who's a savage. 1.00

01:11:46.000 He's the current lightweight champion.

01:11:48.000 Fighters like Sanchai, Muay Thai legend, came in and his first kickboxing fight dominated.

01:11:54.000 This young Thai kid that just came in in France... 0.99

01:12:00.000 He came in and just left-kicked one weapon, shut down an aggressive punch to low kicker.

01:12:07.000 Just one kick, left-kick, left-kick, left-kick.

01:12:09.000 And these guys have been fighting for so long, it's fighting to them.

01:12:13.000 Fighting at the end of the day is still fighting.

01:12:15.000 So these Thai guys who are following traditional Muay Thai are still being very successful in kickboxing.

01:12:22.000 One of the biggest...

01:12:23.000 That guy dominated.

01:12:26.000 Yeah, Book has a great example of it, and it's still around too.

01:12:29.000 Sanchai is really interesting.

01:12:31.000 She watches Glory fight? 1.00

01:12:32.000 Yes, I did.

01:12:33.000 Yeah, he's fun to watch, man.

01:12:35.000 Oh yeah, tricky, slipping.

01:12:37.000 He'll fight big guys, small guys.

01:12:38.000 He put a whole social media campaign to fight Conor McGregor.

01:12:43.000 In MMA? Yeah, I think so.

01:12:46.000 Does he know how to wrestle?

01:12:47.000 No, I don't think so.

01:12:49.000 Well, good luck with all that.

01:12:51.000 What's your thoughts on Conor and Floyd?

01:12:54.000 That's a big thing right now.

01:12:56.000 Could that even happen?

01:12:57.000 It could happen.

01:12:58.000 Floyd is, again, the best defensive fighter ever.

01:13:03.000 In a straight boxing match, you've got to give the advantage to him.

01:13:07.000 You just have to.

01:13:09.000 Traditional wisdom would say that he's going to box Conor's face off.

01:13:14.000 You would look at what he's been able to do, but... 1.00

01:13:17.000 Connor's a fucking freak, man. 1.00

01:13:19.000 He's a weird guy. 1.00

01:13:21.000 His mind is so fucking strong, and he eats pressure. 0.99

01:13:25.000 He just eats it. 0.98

01:13:26.000 When he stepped into that ring with Jose Aldo, he looked like he didn't have a care in the world.

01:13:32.000 That confidence and that belief, man, is just through the roof.

01:13:35.000 Staggering. 0.99

01:13:35.000 And he had talked so much shit for so long and Aldo was just fuming. 0.99

01:13:40.000 He was steaming at the brain when he got in there. 1.00

01:13:43.000 Oh, he was so emotionally invested in that fight.

01:13:45.000 It was almost like he had never been disrespected like that and to be disrespected for months.

01:13:52.000 I mean, they had done this huge world tour where Conor stole his belt at a press conference and was yelling at him.

01:13:58.000 I mean, it was madness.

01:13:59.000 And then to have the fight and then Conor starches him with one punch 13 seconds into the fight.

01:14:04.000 Like, wow.

01:14:05.000 Yeah.

01:14:06.000 That...

01:14:07.000 That stirred up a lot of attention.

01:14:10.000 Obviously Floyd is not Jose Aldo.

01:14:13.000 Floyd is, you know, it would be a boxing match. 0.99

01:14:16.000 In an MMA match, Conor would fucking kill him. 1.00

01:14:18.000 For sure. 1.00

01:14:19.000 He would kill him. 1.00

01:14:19.000 He'd kick the shit out of him. 1.00

01:14:20.000 Totally different. 0.99

01:14:21.000 It wouldn't even be close.

01:14:21.000 Totally different.

01:14:22.000 Floyd would never get close to him. 1.00

01:14:24.000 Conor kicked his fucking legs out from under him. 1.00

01:14:26.000 Every time. 1.00

01:14:26.000 Yeah, it would be brutal. 1.00

01:14:28.000 But in a boxing match, one thing that Conor's got going for him, he's a way bigger guy.

01:14:33.000 I mean, I know he fought at 145, but Jesus Christ, he looked like a dead man when he made 45. Oh, yeah.

01:14:39.000 His shoulders are broad.

01:14:41.000 He's walking around in 170-ish, somewhere around then.

01:14:44.000 And I don't think Floyd is.

01:14:45.000 Floyd is a smaller guy than that.

01:14:46.000 And again, what you were saying about with kickboxing, I think the same holds true with boxing.

01:14:51.000 Those fighters, they're not cutting the kind of weight that MMA fighters are cutting. 1.00

01:14:54.000 So I don't know what they would weigh in at.

01:14:56.000 I would assume it would probably be like 155, somewhere around there.

01:14:59.000 And then once they got into the octagon, or the ring rather, it would be a boxing match, Floyd would probably have a disadvantage weight-wise of somewhere around 15 pounds.

01:15:09.000 Yeah, no.

01:15:10.000 I can't see it happening. 0.99

01:15:12.000 But if they did, Floyd, look, Canelo had a big weight advantage over him in that fight too, and Floyd shut that shit down. 0.99

01:15:18.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:15:19.000 He's so good at boxing, man.

01:15:21.000 He's just so good.

01:15:22.000 He's so skillful.

01:15:23.000 The more I follow and train and learn boxing, something I wish I started a lot earlier on in my career, It's, man, it's like you only have two weapons, you know, and you all of a sudden have to make this complex strategy through, you know,

01:15:39.000 creating openings.

01:15:40.000 And with kicks, you have a whole other dimension.

01:15:43.000 Elbows, clinch, but with boxing, man, you got two fists that you have to make land.

01:15:47.000 It's tough, man, and I get why it's called the sweet science.

01:15:50.000 Now, when you are training, are you sparring?

01:15:53.000 Uh, right, yeah, I do.

01:15:54.000 But I make sure I spar with the right guys and that kind of thing, but I still do spar.

01:15:57.000 And are you worried at all about getting hit when you're doing this?

01:16:01.000 Yes and no.

01:16:02.000 Yes and no?

01:16:03.000 You just love it too much?

01:16:03.000 I just love it, man.

01:16:05.000 I'm not stupid.

01:16:06.000 And that's the last thing you could ever call me.

01:16:08.000 I do everything very calculated, very smart.

01:16:10.000 So if I know there's an issue, I slow it down.

01:16:13.000 Or if there's an aggressive guy, but I still spar and I still start very controlled and I could pick it up if I want.

01:16:20.000 It's just, why?

01:16:21.000 was the question sometimes.

01:16:23.000 I don't need to get in there and have those sparring matches where I'm trying to take the guy's head off. 1.00

01:16:27.000 It just doesn't make any sense.

01:16:28.000 Well, obviously the consequences for you are so much more obvious and intense, knowing what you've been through.

01:16:34.000 I mean, is that in the back of your head at all while you're doing it?

01:16:37.000 Sometimes.

01:16:39.000 What's your take on these fighters taking a new approach on not sparring anymore?

01:16:46.000 Well, Donald Cerrone is taking that approach, and it seems really effective for him.

01:16:51.000 But I think part of what's doing well for him...

01:16:53.000 I mean, obviously, he has excellent timing.

01:16:55.000 Obviously, he's very experienced as a fighter already, and he likes to stay active.

01:16:59.000 But his take on it was that he was beating himself up too much in the gym, that he was sparring too many hard rounds, and he would go into these fights already damaged.

01:17:06.000 He just couldn't take shots.

01:17:07.000 Well, that's the philosophy in Muay Thai.

01:17:09.000 They don't really spar hard in Thailand.

01:17:12.000 It's because they fight very often, too.

01:17:13.000 But if you're not fighting very often, would you need that sparring?

01:17:17.000 It's a good question.

01:17:18.000 I think there's... 1.00

01:17:21.000 Stupid sparring, and then there's quality sparring. 1.00

01:17:24.000 I think there's so many different ways to spar. 1.00

01:17:26.000 If you're constantly going in there and you're trying to slug it out and getting sloppy, that's not good sparring.

01:17:30.000 But you can get a good guy that kind of really sets his shots up really good, goes hard to the body on low kicks.

01:17:36.000 When I spar my guys, we're trying to take each other out with body shots and low kicks.

01:17:40.000 If I finish my training partner to the body, I feel like the king.

01:17:44.000 You know what I mean?

01:17:45.000 I walk around.

01:17:46.000 I'm just like walking like I own the place, man.

01:17:48.000 To the body.

01:17:49.000 To the body.

01:17:50.000 Low kicks.

01:17:51.000 Those are okay, but you don't need to finish guys to the head in sparring.

01:17:53.000 Right.

01:17:54.000 That's the Dutch way, right?

01:17:55.000 They would go 100% to the legs and to the body.

01:17:57.000 Speaking of some of the Dutch guys, like Jason Willness, who's fighting.

01:18:00.000 Yeah.

01:18:01.000 His coach was telling me they do somewhere along the lines of 50 rounds of sparring a week.

01:18:05.000 Jesus Christ.

01:18:06.000 Yeah.

01:18:07.000 That's a lot.

01:18:08.000 Again, I don't know how intense or the type of shots, but they rely a lot on sparring.

01:18:13.000 Well, Willis' fight with Simon Marcus, what a fight that was.

01:18:17.000 Jesus Christ, that was an amazing fight. 0.91

01:18:20.000 And Simon Marcus looked so fucking good in the beginning of that fight. 0.96

01:18:24.000 In the first round. 0.98

01:18:24.000 Oh my God, he was just exploding. 0.98

01:18:26.000 But it seemed like he drained his gas tank.

01:18:29.000 Yeah, got too cocky with that head movement.

01:18:32.000 Yeah, what was that about?

01:18:33.000 I don't know.

01:18:33.000 He, at one point in the fight, almost invited him to punch him and just kind of moved his head a little bit.

01:18:39.000 Then they gave him a count for that, too.

01:18:41.000 Yeah.

01:18:42.000 I wouldn't have called that one a count, but the referee did a good stop on that because Willis was just unloading.

01:18:48.000 Well, definitely on the stoppage. 0.98

01:18:49.000 But it seemed like when they gave him a count, maybe the referee was seeing some shit we weren't seeing. 0.97

01:18:54.000 Because it seemed like Simon, from that point on, started to wither. 0.89

01:18:59.000 That was crazy, because you look how good he looked in the beginning of that fight.

01:19:04.000 He was blasting those kicks in.

01:19:05.000 He was like, Jesus. 0.99

01:19:06.000 And he was fucking going for it, man. 0.99

01:19:09.000 Which is, when you look at Simon, he's so shredded. 1.00

01:19:12.000 He's a beast.

01:19:13.000 He's a specimen. 0.60

01:19:14.000 And his style is so predicated on that.

01:19:17.000 He's reliant on that.

01:19:19.000 He's just, ba-bam!

01:19:20.000 You know yells in the ring like yeah, yeah intense, but he just couldn't keep it up man Couldn't keep that pace up.

01:19:27.000 This is why I like this fight with Adesanya. 0.99

01:19:30.000 Did you ever see his real stuff?

01:19:31.000 They call him the style bender guy is all like wicked He's throwing low line technical good distance control southpaw orthodox spin kick boxes. 1.00

01:19:42.000 He's good.

01:19:42.000 He's so on paper That is the style to beat that Dutch style straightforward fighting, right?

01:19:49.000 You want to fight on angles, use distance, use movement.

01:19:52.000 Where, how do you beat someone like Stylebender?

01:19:55.000 Constant pressure, you know, head-to-head fighting, low kicks.

01:19:59.000 So you're going to see Willness try to use that head-to-head pressure fighting like we saw with me and Raymond Daniels versus Adesanya trying to use that movement on the outside, pick his shots, fight on angles.

01:20:10.000 So on paper, both of these guys have the style to beat one another.

01:20:14.000 I think that's why that fight's super exciting for me to watch.

01:20:17.000 Well, Stylebender has been toying with the idea of fighting in MMA, too.

01:20:22.000 He's 9-0 in MMA. Nine knockouts.

01:20:25.000 Toying with the idea of fighting in the UFC, I should say.

01:20:27.000 And I'm really interested to see how he manages training and competing in both sports.

01:20:33.000 Because that was a giant issue with Joe Schilling.

01:20:36.000 Joe Schilling was trying to do both things at the same time.

01:20:39.000 When he just decided that it's just not really smart and he wasn't able to fight to his best ability in MMA. No.

01:20:47.000 Too many limits.

01:20:49.000 Yeah.

01:20:49.000 And you don't have much time.

01:20:50.000 He's in his 30s.

01:20:51.000 How much time is there in a day?

01:20:54.000 How much time is there in your life?

01:20:55.000 If you want to be excellent at one thing.

01:20:58.000 That's why if you're a real perfectionist, MMA is tough.

01:21:01.000 Yeah.

01:21:02.000 You have to be okay with not being excellent at everything.

01:21:06.000 Yeah.

01:21:07.000 And that's a hard concept for a martial artist and an athlete to be like, hey, you know, your striking is just going to be okay, but we got to work on your ground, so don't worry about your striking now.

01:21:16.000 There's only so much time in a day you can do training.

01:21:19.000 That's a really interesting thing that you just said.

01:21:20.000 You have to be really okay at that. 0.97

01:21:23.000 Because, like, if you do jujitsu, you're going to get strangled by black belts. 1.00

01:21:27.000 But you go, well, if we were kickboxing, I'd fuck that dude up. 1.00

01:21:29.000 Exactly. 0.99

01:21:30.000 And you have to have that in your head.

01:21:31.000 But then again, you know, if you're doing kickboxing with a guy like Bukow, you know, like, well, you know, you're not as good as him. 1.00

01:21:37.000 A kickboxing, well, I'll fucking take his ass down. 1.00

01:21:38.000 Then you can't kick me. 1.00

01:21:40.000 You've got to be okay with it, you know?

01:21:41.000 Well, that was one of the things that George was so amazing at.

01:21:43.000 St. Pierre was so amazing at being able to do whatever he wanted to, dependent upon what you thought he was going to do.

01:21:49.000 Oh, he was definitely above average in everything.

01:21:51.000 Yes.

01:21:52.000 But you put George St. Pierre in a kickboxing fight.

01:21:55.000 Yeah.

01:21:55.000 It wouldn't be the best.

01:21:57.000 It wouldn't be the best.

01:21:58.000 Yeah.

01:21:58.000 But I mean, he's great.

01:22:00.000 He's phenomenal at everything else.

01:22:03.000 I think that's what made him so dominant.

01:22:05.000 He's above average on everything.

01:22:07.000 Yeah.

01:22:07.000 Yep.

01:22:08.000 Yeah.

01:22:08.000 And also incredibly unpredictable and creative.

01:22:12.000 And athletic.

01:22:12.000 One of the most athletic guys I've seen in the sport.

01:22:15.000 Yeah, he's a really interesting case too because George didn't really wrestle competitively in college or in high school.

01:22:20.000 He learned wrestling from a bunch of Russian nationals in Montreal.

01:22:23.000 Which could be good.

01:22:24.000 You lose a lot of those things that aren't needed.

01:22:27.000 Yeah.

01:22:28.000 Well, George is also, he's so humble.

01:22:31.000 Like, as confident as he was as a champion, and as a dominant champion, he's so humble.

01:22:37.000 Like, you could teach George things, and he would just completely absorb it.

01:22:40.000 He would never, you know, he wasn't the type of guy that would have a hard time learning new things.

01:22:46.000 He was very open to stuff.

01:22:47.000 Because I always follow him on social media and stuff, and I hope, I'm actually trying to get out to TriStar, I was talking for us a little bit.

01:22:55.000 I would love to go out there and train with their team and to see how we can connect together.

01:23:00.000 I think that would be an awesome connection.

01:23:02.000 It would be awesome.

01:23:03.000 I think he's still going to fight.

01:23:04.000 I mean, he's still talking about it.

01:23:05.000 Actually, when I heard that, that's when I hit up for Ross. 0.99

01:23:07.000 I was like, hey man, shit, call me in, man. 0.98

01:23:10.000 Let me help you guys on striking. 0.99

01:23:12.000 Yeah, tag me in.

01:23:14.000 I got to do some work with GSP when he did that Kickboxer Vengeance movie.

01:23:18.000 And it was cool because he came in, he's like, never met George in my life at this point.

01:23:23.000 He's like, Valtellini, I'm a fan of yours.

01:23:26.000 I watch you fight Raymond Daniels.

01:23:29.000 I was like, what? 0.97

01:23:30.000 And so for him, because he comes from that karate background, so for him to, you know, say that he liked my style and he was a fan of mine from my Raymond Daniels fight, I was like, shit, that's awesome. 0.92

01:23:38.000 Well, they brought Raymond Daniels in to prepare Roy McDonald.

01:23:41.000 That's right.

01:23:41.000 And they were always...

01:23:44.000 Then I think even GSP went to Daniel's fight, Bellator kickboxing.

01:23:48.000 Yeah, he did.

01:23:49.000 Yeah, he did.

01:23:50.000 Yeah, well, it's another good thing, too, that Bellator is holding those really high-level kickboxing bouts, too.

01:23:55.000 You know, Kevin Ross is over there.

01:23:57.000 Yeah, he's been doing well.

01:23:58.000 Gaston Bolanos is now going to fight MMA for Bellator.

01:24:02.000 I saw that.

01:24:02.000 I was actually talking to their coach today.

01:24:04.000 I was like, man, we've got to get Gaston.

01:24:07.000 He'd be good in the UFC, but if we get him on Glory, I think he needs that good platform to really grow and be consistent with it.

01:24:13.000 I think he'd be a perfect fit for Glory.

01:24:15.000 You mean as far as coverage?

01:24:18.000 Yeah, he gets that full-time attention.

01:24:20.000 Who knows?

01:24:20.000 We'll see how good he is in MMA. Is he just a phenomenal striker trying to test himself in MMA? How is his ground skills?

01:24:28.000 I don't know.

01:24:28.000 I know he can wrestle.

01:24:29.000 I know he's a good wrestler.

01:24:31.000 But like at a professional wrestling level, like ready to go kind of style?

01:24:36.000 It's hard to say because what I'm hearing is from just guys who train with him and guys who have trained MMA with him, they're surprised at how good his wrestling is.

01:24:43.000 Like he's just a really strong athletic guy, learns quick, but his Muay Thai is obviously very, very good.

01:24:49.000 Oh yeah.

01:24:50.000 Very high level.

01:24:50.000 Elbows, I see those spinning elbows.

01:24:52.000 He's killing guys in line fight with it.

01:24:54.000 Yeah, but he'd be perfect for glory.

01:24:56.000 Yeah.

01:24:56.000 Now, do you follow all these other organizations?

01:24:59.000 You follow Bellator Kickboxing?

01:25:01.000 I follow it.

01:25:02.000 I follow all fighting.

01:25:03.000 As much as I can.

01:25:05.000 Now, when you watch, like, say, if you watch Lion Fight or you watch Bellator or any of these other organizations, do you, like, make notes?

01:25:15.000 Like, oh, I'd like to see this guy over in Glory.

01:25:18.000 Hmm.

01:25:18.000 I do.

01:25:18.000 I try to hint it out.

01:25:20.000 I try to hint it out.

01:25:21.000 Yeah.

01:25:22.000 What is Glory's plans?

01:25:24.000 I mean, I know you said that they have 18 events this year, which is amazing.

01:25:27.000 And they're going to be split between, we got some good investors in Glory from China, so we're going to actually try to get a few shows out in China.

01:25:37.000 We're looking at South America, and then the rest mixed between the U.S. and Europe.

01:25:43.000 That's awesome.

01:25:44.000 18 shows.

01:25:45.000 This is the first time that Glory's coming out and saying, listen, there's 18 shows.

01:25:49.000 In our December Collision show, we got to announce Glory LA. We're going to go to Chicago next.

01:25:56.000 So we're having that time to show everyone that, hey, man, there's two, three shows coming up.

01:26:02.000 Here's time to prepare and plan.

01:26:04.000 Because when you don't have that funding all the time, it's kind of hard to have those multiple events and have that time to...

01:26:10.000 You know build up the shows properly and now that we have it I think the sports is gonna go crazy.

01:26:15.000 I hope so man.

01:26:17.000 I really do and I think it's awesome they're gonna have more than one a month.

01:26:20.000 I mean that's incredible.

01:26:21.000 People need consistency.

01:26:23.000 One a month plus six more.

01:26:25.000 That's amazing.

01:26:26.000 I mean you know every other month they're gonna have two events then.

01:26:29.000 That's what we want.

01:26:30.000 That's incredible.

01:26:31.000 That's really good.

01:26:33.000 And as far as coverage, I know you guys are on UFC Fight Pass.

01:26:37.000 It's also sometimes on ESPN, right?

01:26:39.000 It's on ESPN 3 and sometimes we get ESPN 2 live.

01:26:43.000 So it's all depending, but I'm hoping we can get on.

01:26:45.000 That's a huge step because we started off on Spike TV. Which was great.

01:26:50.000 It was okay.

01:26:51.000 It was going well.

01:26:52.000 It was great for me.

01:26:54.000 I can watch it.

01:26:55.000 But then what was happening was when we went to ESPN, it's just a whole different market now.

01:26:59.000 If we want to hit those casual fans, ESPN is going to be the place to do it.

01:27:04.000 Yes.

01:27:04.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:27:06.000 ESPN 3, though, is weird.

01:27:07.000 We need to get it.

01:27:08.000 When we're live on 2, it seems to do well.

01:27:11.000 But we just gotta keep it keep it going.

01:27:13.000 Now, what are they gonna do with Rico and Bader?

01:27:16.000 Because the Rico Verhoeven-Bader Hari fight is probably one of the most most hyped-up heavyweight fights of all time.

01:27:22.000 Oh, there's 13,000 people.

01:27:23.000 Nuts.

01:27:23.000 Was it really?

01:27:24.000 Wow.

01:27:25.000 Like, when Bader Hari is in the building, like, people know he's a superstar.

01:27:29.000 Yes.

01:27:30.000 Like, he doesn't even have to fight and he's a superstar.

01:27:32.000 And it was in, uh, Uberhausen, Germany, which is where it borders Holland.

01:27:36.000 So all the Holland fans, a lot of the Dutch-Moroccans came in. 0.95

01:27:39.000 When he came out... 0.91

01:27:42.000 Crazy.

01:27:42.000 People are just going nuts trying to rush and get him.

01:27:45.000 He's a superstar.

01:27:46.000 So it needs fights like that.

01:27:48.000 And it's kind of like that Conor McGregor.

01:27:50.000 He builds that energy around him that people just need to tune into.

01:27:54.000 And I think that's what Botter does.

01:27:56.000 So that rematch is going to be crazy.

01:27:58.000 So I think Rico is going to go fight.

01:28:00.000 He has some other fights that he has to fight.

01:28:02.000 There's contender tournaments that winner, he gets to fight.

01:28:06.000 He has a fight with Ishmael Lant planned, I think.

01:28:08.000 If you watch Collision, there's Benjamal Sadiq, who was that big monster heavyweight.

01:28:14.000 He's looking good.

01:28:15.000 You have guys like Jafar Willness, who are doing really well.

01:28:18.000 Benjamin Atticboy.

01:28:19.000 So there's so many fights for Rico, and I think Botter's going to be, once he heals up, and then maybe they'll do another one next year.

01:28:26.000 But nothing planned right now.

01:28:27.000 There's got to be another fight.

01:28:29.000 It has to happen, but how long does it take before Bader can be back in action?

01:28:33.000 He had a broken forearm, is that what happened in the fight?

01:28:35.000 He tore a ligament.

01:28:36.000 That's what it was?

01:28:37.000 I think it was a torn ligament.

01:28:39.000 I've re-watched it a few times, trying to see where in the fight it happened.

01:28:42.000 It's very tough to actually see where it happened, but apparently he tore a ligament in his forearm.

01:28:49.000 And it just wasn't working right.

01:28:50.000 You could tell he looked down.

01:28:51.000 Cause it didn't look like, when trying to find it, there was no real time where the damage happened where you seen him do it.

01:28:57.000 I don't know, it was weird.

01:28:59.000 But I think somewhere it must have torn and he just couldn't take the pain anymore.

01:29:04.000 God, that was so weird.

01:29:06.000 But it was interesting because Botter, who's just a notorious psycho, came out in the first round pretty controlled and measured, you know?

01:29:14.000 And approached the fight intelligently, too.

01:29:18.000 Said, no, we're going to do three rounds.

01:29:19.000 I haven't been fighting in a long time.

01:29:21.000 I want a five-round fight.

01:29:22.000 I want a three-round fight.

01:29:23.000 Didn't care about the title.

01:29:25.000 Yeah.

01:29:25.000 It wasn't for the world title.

01:29:27.000 Yeah.

01:29:27.000 I think what he wanted to do was have this three-rounder Then let them meet again for the five rounds.

01:29:33.000 So if it's a torn tendon, or a ligament rather, that is a much more invasive issue, right?

01:29:39.000 That's a long recovery.

01:29:40.000 I haven't really gotten an update.

01:29:42.000 I'll try to find out for us.

01:29:43.000 Usually ligaments take a long time to heal, like maybe even need surgery or something like that.

01:29:48.000 And if that's the case, you might be out a year, unfortunately.

01:29:53.000 That fight needs to happen.

01:29:54.000 We need to get more people.

01:29:55.000 We need to get more people on.

01:29:57.000 And that's what got everyone hyped.

01:29:58.000 Yeah.

01:29:59.000 Got everyone excited about kickboxing again.

01:30:01.000 Botter's such a personality, you know.

01:30:03.000 That's the kindest use of that word, personality, ever.

01:30:07.000 Just got to keep him out of jail between now and the next fight.

01:30:10.000 Even in the post-fight interview, he goes to Rico and he looked at him and he said, you know what?

01:30:14.000 You did good.

01:30:15.000 You did good. 1.00

01:30:15.000 But next time, I'm going to knock you the fuck out. 1.00

01:30:18.000 And everyone was like, holy shit! 1.00

01:30:19.000 Like already, the next fight's already hyped up. 0.98

01:30:22.000 Even after the loss, we're like, yeah, this is what this sport needs.

01:30:25.000 Let's get attention.

01:30:26.000 And I keep trying to say, and I came out publicly a little while ago, fighters need to...

01:30:33.000 In the kickboxing realm need to do more to promote themselves.

01:30:36.000 They can't constantly rely on glory or other people to kind of promote them.

01:30:40.000 They got to go out there and really try to build themselves.

01:30:43.000 And the more they build themselves, the more the sport's going to build.

01:30:46.000 Yeah, I completely agree.

01:30:48.000 It's just so hard for fighters to figure out how to promote themselves.

01:30:51.000 It's hard enough to be a great fighter.

01:30:53.000 It's hard enough to train hard and get in shape and fight smart and to concentrate on social media, too.

01:30:59.000 And you see a lot of fails.

01:31:01.000 Yeah, tons. 0.98

01:31:02.000 A lot of fake trash talking that just comes out clunky. 1.00

01:31:06.000 Terrible. 0.97

01:31:07.000 But then there's always these guys like Connor that do it, and you just go, Jesus, he's so effortless with it.

01:31:13.000 Chael Sonnen.

01:31:14.000 Yes.

01:31:14.000 But that's their personality, you know?

01:31:16.000 It just happens naturally.

01:31:18.000 Yeah.

01:31:19.000 Sure, everyone would love to be Connor, right? 1.00

01:31:21.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

01:31:21.000 Not many people can. 1.00

01:31:23.000 I mean, look, he's got Floyd Mayweather saying that that's the only fight that he's interested in.

01:31:27.000 Yeah.

01:31:28.000 Hey, Jamie, what the hell's going on with that thing up there?

01:31:30.000 I don't know.

01:31:31.000 Started doing that.

01:31:31.000 I think it's like resetting itself.

01:31:33.000 I can't change.

01:31:33.000 Is it YouTube?

01:31:35.000 I'm not controlling it right now.

01:31:36.000 I don't know.

01:31:37.000 It's the TV. Oh, the TV's whacking at it?

01:31:40.000 I don't know.

01:31:40.000 Oh, wow.

01:31:41.000 I'll turn it off and reset it.

01:31:42.000 Oh, okay.

01:31:43.000 Because I wanted to see that other fight that you were telling me about, the highlight reel.

01:31:46.000 Oh, with Medi Baghdad?

01:31:48.000 Yes.

01:31:48.000 Yeah, that's a wicked one.

01:31:49.000 And it's a little clip of just me throwing different combinations and then you see that big elbow.

01:31:54.000 It's on YouTube.

01:31:56.000 Valtellini versus Medi Baghdad.

01:31:58.000 We'll put that up and we'll talk about that too.

01:32:01.000 So right now you are a hundred percent commentating on Glory.

01:32:06.000 You're taking some time off of your high school teaching.

01:32:10.000 So what do your days look like?

01:32:12.000 Right now, it's just me training again.

01:32:14.000 And I feel I want to get back into the first time.

01:32:19.000 I want to try doing different things.

01:32:20.000 Like my body needs to be stretched out a little bit.

01:32:23.000 The years of damage on my joints, I want to start doing more yoga.

01:32:26.000 I'm going to try some yoga out.

01:32:28.000 I want to create a kickboxing, a professional kickboxing program for other pros to come in and have daytime training and stuff like that.

01:32:39.000 That's beautiful.

01:32:39.000 There's lots of things.

01:32:40.000 So this whole fight was all about different.

01:32:43.000 And he's good.

01:32:44.000 He's doing pretty well in the UFC, I think, isn't he?

01:32:46.000 He's a tough guy.

01:32:47.000 That's such a gorgeous combination, man.

01:32:49.000 That left hook to the body and the low kick.

01:32:52.000 You know, that Ernesto Hoos combination.

01:32:55.000 He's another one of my all-time favorites.

01:32:58.000 He is my favorite.

01:32:59.000 God, he's so good.

01:33:01.000 There was one highlight that he has on that I've literally watched probably a million times before.

01:33:08.000 Why is he cheering?

01:33:09.000 Because he couldn't take the low kicks anymore, so it was his way of...

01:33:13.000 Hyping it up?

01:33:14.000 Yeah, you'll see the elbows soon.

01:33:15.000 This one right here.

01:33:16.000 See that elbow?

01:33:16.000 Yeah.

01:33:17.000 Watch what happens.

01:33:18.000 Wow.

01:33:19.000 Gash. 0.84

01:33:19.000 Right away, huh? 0.84

01:33:20.000 It's those slicing elbows, right?

01:33:22.000 That's it.

01:33:22.000 That's all he really threw.

01:33:22.000 It was a downward elbow.

01:33:26.000 Wow, that is a fucking gash, man. 0.99

01:33:28.000 He basically only hit me with that shot, and that was in the fourth round. 0.99

01:33:33.000 Wow.

01:33:34.000 Were you worried about the fight getting stopped here?

01:33:36.000 They probably should have stopped it.

01:33:38.000 Really?

01:33:39.000 But I mean, I was okay.

01:33:41.000 As a fighter, you're never going to say, stop the fight.

01:33:43.000 Right.

01:33:43.000 But probably looking back, and then right away, I just come back and say, you know what, let me give you that leg.

01:33:49.000 Was the blood going into your eyes at this point?

01:33:51.000 A little bit.

01:33:51.000 I remember.

01:33:52.000 And this was in 3D, apparently, that they filmed it.

01:33:55.000 Oh, really?

01:33:56.000 Literally.

01:33:56.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:33:57.000 So I would have loved to have seen it.

01:33:59.000 Man, that is a gash.

01:34:00.000 That's not even the big one.

01:34:01.000 The big one's in my head that you can't even see.

01:34:03.000 On top?

01:34:04.000 Yeah, it's just right through the hairline.

01:34:07.000 That is such a nasty combination, man.

01:34:11.000 Yeah, but he basically hit me with two elbows the whole fight.

01:34:13.000 That's crazy.

01:34:14.000 Two gashes every time he did.

01:34:16.000 Well, you can't even see the scar, man.

01:34:17.000 You got a good plastic surgeon.

01:34:19.000 No, it was the backstage doctor.

01:34:22.000 His face, when he started to stitch me, was like, he was making all these faces.

01:34:26.000 I'm like, oh, man, I don't want to know that.

01:34:28.000 A doctor was making a face like that? 1.00

01:34:30.000 What kind of fucking doctor is he? 1.00

01:34:31.000 I don't know. 1.00

01:34:32.000 That's ridiculous. 0.99

01:34:34.000 That's crazy, man. 0.98

01:34:35.000 So, do you have any desire to compete again?

01:34:39.000 Have you figured your path out from here on out?

01:34:43.000 Glory's been too good, man.

01:34:44.000 I've been loving this commentary gig.

01:34:46.000 It's a new challenge.

01:34:47.000 It's new.

01:34:49.000 So, for me, I have a full...

01:34:51.000 This is the first time, even when I've won my world title, I'd work during the day as a teacher, eat my lunch as I drove to the gym, and then I would train at night.

01:34:59.000 I won a world title working a full-time job.

01:35:01.000 Wow.

01:35:01.000 Because it's just at that point, there wasn't enough...

01:35:05.000 I'm used to a certain type of living and I don't want to have to fight to survive.

01:35:11.000 And my whole thing was I'm going to use fighting to build it as a platform.

01:35:14.000 So now, you know, because I have a university education, I'm able to have a commentary job.

01:35:19.000 I'm able to run my own gym.

01:35:21.000 I'm able to have other things going on.

01:35:23.000 So I was very lucky to build a good platform that I didn't have to rely on fighting for my income.

01:35:30.000 So right now things are too good.

01:35:32.000 There's more money on the sitting in a suit and, you know, trying to be Joe Rogan.

01:35:37.000 So, I mean, it's more money.

01:35:39.000 It's better on my health.

01:35:41.000 And you're happy and enjoying it.

01:35:43.000 I'm loving it.

01:35:43.000 That's awesome.

01:35:44.000 I'm genuinely loving it.

01:35:45.000 What was your education in?

01:35:46.000 Health and physical education.

01:35:48.000 That's interesting.

01:35:49.000 So when you look at training methods, like some of the methods that are being employed today, some of the various strength and conditioning methods, is there anything that you think that really stands out?

01:36:02.000 Well the main thing for me is guys in combat sports who are using CrossFit as a form of weight training for fighting.

01:36:10.000 I don't necessarily agree with that, based on many things, because you're doing an unsafe exercise, like a deadlift or a clean, and you're doing it over time, where those movements are made to develop power, hip strength.

01:36:24.000 They're not meant for endurance.

01:36:27.000 So a lot of guys are hurting themselves.

01:36:30.000 I saw some CrossFit guys and they're doing these terrible rounded back deadlifts and they're just trying to get the bar up and weight and they're hurting themselves and they're doing too much.

01:36:40.000 But a sports-specific, properly tailored strength program is very important.

01:36:46.000 But CrossFitting is just killing guys.

01:36:48.000 Their body, the damage on the joints, it wasn't made to help you enhance.

01:36:53.000 There's different ways to do it in a safer way that helps protect your body.

01:36:57.000 Too many people are, you know, canceling fights with injuries.

01:37:00.000 I think they overtrain.

01:37:02.000 They're doing things that, you know, things like CrossFit where they're constantly killing their bodies.

01:37:07.000 That's interesting because some people think that, you know, fighters are overtraining and some people think, no, the problem is they just haven't built themselves up to the point where they can do this the way they need to.

01:37:18.000 Overtraining, man.

01:37:19.000 You think it's overtraining?

01:37:20.000 They're overtraining.

01:37:21.000 Now, when you were fighting, did you do any kind of strength and conditioning?

01:37:25.000 I was huge on it.

01:37:26.000 I was very big on it.

01:37:28.000 It's very complex.

01:37:30.000 It's very difficult to explain, but in a short term, it's like you have to...

01:37:37.000 It's a periodization.

01:37:38.000 So right after my fight, I would go into a hypertrophy phase where I tried to build myself because during your camp, you're losing weight.

01:37:46.000 You're trying to break down muscle because you're constantly training.

01:37:48.000 You're not eating as much.

01:37:49.000 So I would go through a hypertrophy phase, which is build and get big as strong as I possibly can.

01:37:55.000 Closer to fight time, I build that muscle into more explosive power.

01:38:00.000 So that's when I start doing, instead of high volume reps, I'm starting to kind of lower my rep count.

01:38:06.000 I'll do five sets of five on squat. 0.59

01:38:08.000 I'll do deadlifts to five.

01:38:10.000 And it's now translating that muscle and that size into power.

01:38:14.000 From there, you got to get the power phase turns into more of an explosive phase.

01:38:18.000 So I start turning that power into that explosive.

01:38:21.000 So I'll start doing like med ball throws, explosive jumping.

01:38:25.000 I'll box squat instead of a regular squat.

01:38:28.000 And even when you're in that hypertrophy phase and when you're building muscle, the whole point is to break your body down.

01:38:36.000 So you're sore.

01:38:37.000 Everyone knows how sore and how shitty they feel 24 to 48 hours after a workout.

01:38:42.000 And that's good because your body's breaking down and has to get stronger.

01:38:45.000 But when you have, when your goal is to fight and be good at your sport, you can't have that soreness because it's going to take away from your training.

01:38:53.000 So that's why we really have to periodize our training to make sure we can peak on fight night.

01:38:58.000 There's a lot of talk in MMA circles that strength and conditioning is the most important thing, that once you're in camp, that's what you should concentrate on is your cardio, your endurance, and that your fight skills actually come in secondary because you already know how to fight.

01:39:13.000 There's some people that believe that what you need to do is work on your fight skills all the other time, not that you abandon them, but that they take second place, and that the most important thing is having a phenomenal gas tank.

01:39:27.000 Eh, I don't know about that.

01:39:28.000 I think fighting, you have to constantly...

01:39:31.000 You're fighting, so you have to fight.

01:39:32.000 You have to practice what you're doing.

01:39:34.000 I think the most important is your mind.

01:39:36.000 The mind.

01:39:37.000 The mind is number one.

01:39:38.000 Did you involve yourself in any sort of mental training?

01:39:41.000 I was naturally gifted with it.

01:39:45.000 I naturally had the ability to be able to block things.

01:39:47.000 That could have been my years of sports background.

01:39:50.000 But, man, come fight time, I barely even thought of the fight.

01:39:54.000 People were like, oh, you're going to Japan next week to fight.

01:39:56.000 Two fights in one night.

01:39:57.000 I was like, yeah, okay.

01:39:58.000 I'll deal with it when I have to get there, kind of thing.

01:40:00.000 I put my work in.

01:40:02.000 The more you stress about it...

01:40:03.000 The more you release the cortisone, the more that your body breaks itself down, the more stressed you get, the less sleep you're going to have. 0.99

01:40:10.000 All terrible shit when you're fighting in a few days, right? 0.98

01:40:13.000 So my whole strategy was just to say, I do my work. 0.99

01:40:17.000 And the problem with you said about overtraining and guys fight.

01:40:22.000 Then they party. 1.00

01:40:23.000 They eat like shit. 1.00

01:40:25.000 They constantly don't focus on fighting. 1.00

01:40:27.000 They're like, hey, you're fighting in eight weeks. 0.99

01:40:28.000 Then they go, oh shit, I've got to do a crash course and get up to shape and then they overtrain. 0.98

01:40:32.000 A true martial artist doesn't look at the fight... 0.99

01:40:37.000 On a fight basis.

01:40:39.000 It looks at longevity.

01:40:40.000 I'm looking at, okay, for this fight, yeah, my boxing might improve a little bit, but I have to improve something else.

01:40:46.000 And there's constantly improvements in all areas.

01:40:49.000 So as soon as you're done your fight, yeah, it's healthy to take a week or two off.

01:40:54.000 Some guys three weeks, depending on the damage you had.

01:40:56.000 But you've got to get working again.

01:40:58.000 You've got to get back to sharpening your tools, your weapons, your mind.

01:41:02.000 You've got to get back into it and constantly training.

01:41:05.000 You've got to learn 24-7.

01:41:06.000 I don't agree with guys who think they can just train for camps.

01:41:10.000 A real fighter, a real athlete, a real martial artist is gonna train all year round.

01:41:16.000 Yeah, you have to look at it also in terms of You're involved in one of the most dangerous pursuits athletically than someone can engage in.

01:41:25.000 And any time that you're getting better is going to take away some damage that you could possibly sustain.

01:41:32.000 It's going to make you better administering damage.

01:41:35.000 It's going to make you better.

01:41:36.000 It's just a matter of staying the course and being disciplined.

01:41:38.000 You have to work it.

01:41:39.000 Yeah.

01:41:40.000 And I mean...

01:41:41.000 Intensity changes.

01:41:42.000 You're not going to be, right after your fight, you're not going to be training at that hard intensity that you were before the fight, but it's still important to constantly train and constantly improve.

01:41:51.000 Now, when you say that you were kind of naturally good at it mentally, no one coached you into how to relax about it?

01:41:58.000 You just kind of instinctively knew that's the way to do it?

01:42:00.000 It just worked.

01:42:01.000 I knew I had to do it.

01:42:02.000 I knew I had to do it.

01:42:04.000 Like, for me especially, I wasn't fighting guys with my level of experience.

01:42:08.000 Like, you're like, hey, my first fight with Glory, I fought a legend in the sport, Murat Direcci.

01:42:15.000 And when Glory signed me, right after that fight we watched with Mehdi Baghdad, I got an email from a random guy at this point.

01:42:22.000 I'm now friends with him.

01:42:23.000 But it's like, hey, I can get you fights. 1.00

01:42:25.000 I'm like, yeah, bullshit. 0.99

01:42:26.000 Everybody can get me fights. 0.99

01:42:27.000 And then I sent them, like, yeah, here's my manager.

01:42:29.000 Go off.

01:42:30.000 And then they're like, hey, yeah, we want to sign you to Glory.

01:42:32.000 Just like a I was like, oh, wicked, because this is what I wanted, right?

01:42:37.000 My dream's here.

01:42:38.000 So, like, oh, your first fight is against Murat Direcci in Turkey.

01:42:42.000 I was like, okay.

01:42:43.000 I never really had the same Murat Direcci that I think it is, so I looked it up.

01:42:47.000 I was like, yeah, it's the same guy.

01:42:48.000 He had, like, 90 fights.

01:42:50.000 It was my seventh.

01:42:52.000 In his hometown, you know, I'm going to press conferences with Goken Saki, Daniel Gita, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, I have six professional fights and all the Turkish cameras are all around us and I didn't know what was going on.

01:43:05.000 But I was confident in myself.

01:43:07.000 I believed in myself.

01:43:09.000 I knew I had the skill to do it.

01:43:11.000 I looked at my coach and I'm like, can I beat this guy? 0.99

01:43:13.000 And he's like, yeah, you'll kill him. 0.98

01:43:14.000 I'm like, all right, cool, let's do it. 0.97

01:43:15.000 And then at that point, I just had that much confidence and belief in myself that nothing mattered.

01:43:20.000 Now, when you go into a fight like that and you approach a fight like that and you're saying that these guys had so much more experience than you, so you had to almost approach the fight as a more experienced fighter?

01:43:33.000 Yeah, and I did.

01:43:35.000 My whole thing was I knew what I was really good at.

01:43:38.000 And I couldn't...

01:43:39.000 With someone with 100 fights, you're so comfortable in there.

01:43:42.000 And if I play that relaxed fighting game with them, it's not a good look.

01:43:46.000 They're better at picking their shots probably.

01:43:48.000 I'd still probably beat them.

01:43:49.000 I'm not going to say that.

01:43:50.000 But looking before the fight, I'm going to make them fight my fight.

01:43:54.000 If I fight their fight, there's a good chance they're going to beat me.

01:43:57.000 So I went in and...

01:43:59.000 Basically, you have to fight this fight in order to beat me.

01:44:01.000 And this was my strength.

01:44:02.000 I was stronger than most of the guys I fought because I had a good strength and conditioning program.

01:44:07.000 Actually, who's outside, Costa Cladianos, he was strength and conditioning coach for the Toronto Maple Leafs in Canada.

01:44:13.000 So he knew a lot.

01:44:14.000 He was amazing.

01:44:15.000 So I was the strongest guy that I've ever...

01:44:19.000 I haven't seen anyone who was really stronger than me in the ring.

01:44:22.000 So I went in there and I fought my fight.

01:44:24.000 Good coaching.

01:44:25.000 Paul Min has good coaching.

01:44:26.000 So everything was just on point for me.

01:44:28.000 Now, do you do any visualization?

01:44:30.000 Did you do any sort of meditation?

01:44:32.000 It just happened naturally.

01:44:33.000 Nothing planned out?

01:44:34.000 I would just be driving my car and I'm thinking about how it feels to win and how I'm going to win.

01:44:39.000 It just happened naturally.

01:44:41.000 And then I kind of blocked it off where I didn't even think about it.

01:44:44.000 The last thing you want to do is go to your bed at night and think about a fight.

01:44:48.000 It's terrible. 1.00

01:44:49.000 Then you're like, oh shit, what if I get knocked out? 1.00

01:44:51.000 Oh man, everyone's watching me? 0.99

01:44:52.000 Who's watching this?

01:44:53.000 It gets scary.

01:44:54.000 So you gotta learn to be able to block it off.

01:44:57.000 And I think that's where my teaching job helped a little bit.

01:45:00.000 Because when I was in my teaching job, I really didn't think of the fight.

01:45:03.000 I was like, oh, I'll deal with it after.

01:45:06.000 Because fighting is a lot of stress.

01:45:08.000 A lot of guys can't handle it.

01:45:09.000 And there's a lot of guys you see on pads that are incredible.

01:45:12.000 These guys can whip pads, kicks, punches.

01:45:15.000 One of the most beautiful display of technique on pads.

01:45:18.000 You put them in the ring...

01:45:19.000 They just don't have it mentally.

01:45:21.000 Too much anxiety, too much stress.

01:45:23.000 They just can't handle that pressure.

01:45:25.000 So that's one of the biggest parts, is having that confidence in yourself and that mindset.

01:45:30.000 I wanted to go back to what we were talking about with strength and conditioning, where, like I said, there's a philosophy that many are taking in MMA, that the strength and conditioning is more important during fight camp than actual fight training itself.

01:45:42.000 This is about MMA, though.

01:45:44.000 Do you think that maybe the physical requirements of fighting five-minute rounds And, you know, a lot of the grappling and clinching, which is just unbelievably grueling on your body.

01:45:52.000 Do you think that there's different physical requirements in that sport, maybe, than kickboxing?

01:45:56.000 I think it's just different, right?

01:45:58.000 It's just different.

01:46:00.000 You need that different.

01:46:01.000 If I were to roll one minute in jiu-jitsu, I'd probably be gassed out.

01:46:05.000 Like, I wrestle around sometimes just as a joke and...

01:46:09.000 Actually, the father of my niece and nephew is one of the pioneers in Canada of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

01:46:14.000 I don't know, Richard Monkey Nanku.

01:46:16.000 And he's just been around him my whole life.

01:46:18.000 If I roll for one minute, I'm gassed.

01:46:20.000 You know, I can't do it.

01:46:21.000 But if they kickbox with me for one minute, they can't handle it either, right?

01:46:26.000 So it's just what you prepare for.

01:46:27.000 Or if you're that marathon runner and you try to swim five lanes in the pool, you're done.

01:46:32.000 Totally different energy systems.

01:46:34.000 But I have to say, MMA is...

01:46:37.000 Different demands on the body.

01:46:39.000 It's a totally different demand on the body.

01:46:41.000 You need to be able to wrestle and then stand up and be explosive, which is really difficult to do.

01:46:49.000 Do you foresee yourself getting involved any more deeply in MMA? I would love to.

01:46:55.000 I would love to.

01:46:56.000 I'm just waiting for a guy.

01:46:57.000 I'm not that guy that's going to really go out there.

01:46:59.000 Unless it's George St. Pierre, obviously.

01:47:01.000 But I'm hoping to one day, obviously, have a build a good group of guys who are fighting in the UFC. I would love to have that.

01:47:09.000 That's the ultimate goal.

01:47:11.000 To be able to impart your knowledge on some of the guys that are coming up.

01:47:14.000 I would love to.

01:47:14.000 For sure.

01:47:15.000 And especially at the gym now, I've been loving it.

01:47:18.000 Been loving it.

01:47:19.000 And seeing a lot of those UFC guys now are hopefully seeing all these videos and these drills that I'm posting and what I can have to offer.

01:47:25.000 And it'd be good.

01:47:25.000 There's so many times I watch the UFC, I'm like, if this guy had a little bit of, you know, me coaching him, and I'm sure they have great coaches, but...

01:47:33.000 You know, they just need that little extra.

01:47:36.000 I know what you're saying.

01:47:37.000 And I think this is also such a cool time for fighters to be able to hear these words from guys like you and to be able to easily access those videos that you're putting up and all these striking breakdowns that guys like Lawrence Kenshin are putting up and all these other people.

01:47:50.000 I mean, it's an amazing time as far as the amount of information that you can get for fighters.

01:47:57.000 Yeah, and people have to use it.

01:47:58.000 Yeah.

01:47:59.000 And it's a lot of pride too, right?

01:48:00.000 It's tough sometimes.

01:48:02.000 Like even with a lot of the fighters that I approach and I give tips to, when you're at a higher level, you think you know everything.

01:48:08.000 And that's kind of like you said, George was very humble that way where he can kind of like allow and accept knowledge.

01:48:15.000 I think that's important.

01:48:15.000 A lot of guys can't.

01:48:17.000 They think they're just they know and everything and that's terrible mindset I think you're totally right and I think that There's no way like you what you were saying about if you want to be a very good MMA fighter There's no way you're gonna be the best at everything.

01:48:30.000 It's impossible so When you got a guy like George, you know, one of the beautiful things about him was that he was aware of where his limitations lie.

01:48:40.000 He was aware of where his strengths were, and he knew how to put it all together.

01:48:44.000 I always talk about fighting as if, like, it's a language.

01:48:47.000 Right.

01:48:49.000 A lot of people know how to use words.

01:48:51.000 A lot of people know what the words are.

01:48:53.000 But can you string them together eloquently?

01:48:55.000 And that's one of the things that I see when I'm watching that fight with Mehdi Baghdad.

01:48:58.000 When you throw in that combination, left hook to the body, low kick.

01:49:02.000 It's a beautiful flowing sentence in a lot of ways.

01:49:05.000 You're expressing yourself in that.

01:49:07.000 That's a good way of putting it.

01:49:08.000 Because I was talking to someone, I think it was Matt Embry today.

01:49:12.000 I did fighter interviews before I came.

01:49:14.000 So a lot of their things they were saying are fresh in my mind.

01:49:16.000 But he was saying it's like...

01:49:18.000 It's human nature.

01:49:19.000 Everyone knows what fighting is.

01:49:21.000 You can really watch two guys, and now you can say, who's winning?

01:49:25.000 Who did more damage?

01:49:26.000 You can see it.

01:49:27.000 It's like looking at the words on the page.

01:49:30.000 But once you know how to read, it becomes a totally different game.

01:49:33.000 It's not just words on a page anymore.

01:49:35.000 Yeah.

01:49:36.000 That's a good way of putting it.

01:49:37.000 Yeah.

01:49:40.000 It's a beautiful thing, man.

01:49:41.000 It really is.

01:49:42.000 Fighting is like nothing else.

01:49:44.000 I mean, it's so heartbreaking when you see someone get devastated and smashed like BJ Penn did against Yair Rodriguez, but on the other hand, so beautiful when you see what Yair was able to do to a legend like BJ Penn.

01:49:56.000 I mean, it's such a...

01:49:58.000 Fighting in all forms, whether it's boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, MMA. It's, to me, one of the most engaging things for someone to watch.

01:50:08.000 Would you want to fight in the UFC if you could?

01:50:10.000 No.

01:50:11.000 No?

01:50:11.000 No.

01:50:11.000 First of all, I'm old as fuck.

01:50:13.000 But in your prime? 0.99

01:50:14.000 If I was competing still when the UFC was around, I probably would have done something.

01:50:21.000 But also, when the UFC first came around, it was like one weight class.

01:50:25.000 You know, when I stopped fighting was in 1989. That was the last kickboxing fight that I had.

01:50:30.000 And that was, um, there was nothing.

01:50:32.000 And there was no money in it.

01:50:34.000 And I was getting headaches, too, just from sparring.

01:50:36.000 And I did not spar smart.

01:50:38.000 I sparred meathead style.

01:50:40.000 I know a lot more today than I ever did then as far as consequences and what's important and how to learn better.

01:50:49.000 I was good at being obsessed with things and really just focusing on them constantly all the time, but it was more frantic and frenetic.

01:50:59.000 It wasn't calculated and intelligent.

01:51:02.000 It's like crashing in and learning.

01:51:04.000 Just being obsessed.

01:51:06.000 Just constantly training all the day.

01:51:08.000 But I think that, you know, one of the things that we're learning now is the right way to learn.

01:51:15.000 Like you were saying, that so many fighters are over-trained, you know, and that so many fighters spar too hard.

01:51:22.000 Like you're saying, people think that hitting the pads and getting tired is good work. 0.96

01:51:27.000 It's tough, though, because when you have a fighter's mentality, you gotta think it's easy to be outside, and I could say it because I've been in it, but when someone on the outside says, oh, these guys, you know, they need to train harder, they need to keep doing more and more and more, and when you're fighting, you're like, shit, I gotta fight in three weeks. 0.66

01:51:43.000 You never think your conditioning's good enough.

01:51:45.000 You could train every day, all day, put your best effort in, you're never gonna think your conditioning's good enough.

01:51:51.000 You're going to be like the day before the fight.

01:51:53.000 You've done everything possible in your training.

01:51:54.000 You're going to go on and you're going to second guess your conditioning.

01:51:57.000 You're going to wonder if you did enough. 0.99

01:51:59.000 You're going to wonder, shit, I should have trained now. 0.99

01:52:01.000 Why didn't I, my Sunday rest day, I should have been training. 1.00

01:52:03.000 I should have been getting better.

01:52:05.000 But really, you have to get in that mindset that, you know, you don't need more all the time.

01:52:10.000 And that's why guys are getting injured.

01:52:11.000 They're putting their bodies, they're not letting themselves rest, and they're getting sick.

01:52:15.000 I bet you if you go on one of your UFC shows and you ask every fighter on that card who's sick, I bet you 50% would be sick with some sort of cold or infection or sinus infection.

01:52:27.000 Most of those guys are probably sick because their immune system is crashed from not eating, constantly training, stress, not sleeping.

01:52:35.000 I bet you more than half are sick with something.

01:52:39.000 Absolutely.

01:52:39.000 I'm sure.

01:52:40.000 I was always sick before Taekwondo tournaments.

01:52:43.000 Sinuses for me.

01:52:44.000 Every fight I had a sinus infection.

01:52:46.000 And I was even smart about my training.

01:52:48.000 I still got sinus infections.

01:52:49.000 Did you monitor your heart rate?

01:52:51.000 Did you wake up in the morning?

01:52:53.000 No, I never really did that.

01:52:54.000 It's one of the things Steve Maxwell told me.

01:52:56.000 He said it was very important to find out where you're at.

01:52:59.000 He goes, when you're in shape, find out what your resting heart rate is, measure it in the morning, and if you wake up in the morning and it's 5 to 10 beats over what it normally is, take the day off.

01:53:08.000 It's like your body's fighting something off.

01:53:10.000 And you probably won't even think that, and you just got to push through.

01:53:13.000 But when you push through in those...

01:53:15.000 Makes it worse.

01:53:16.000 That's when you break yourself down.

01:53:17.000 It's that balance between being intelligent and being tough, being disciplined, but also being calculated.

01:53:24.000 That's where I think your team is very important.

01:53:27.000 You have to have someone like, I had it in my camp, but if you look at Feras and TriStar, we'll use that as an example.

01:53:33.000 He monitors everything.

01:53:35.000 Yeah.

01:53:35.000 So he probably looks at George and says, you know, George, you're a little off today.

01:53:38.000 Like, from the way George comes in, he probably knows already.

01:53:42.000 How's his mood?

01:53:43.000 Is he angry right now?

01:53:44.000 Is he cranky?

01:53:45.000 Is he snappy with his words?

01:53:47.000 Like, what's he doing?

01:53:48.000 You know, because you've been around the fighters so long that they're like, my coach will say, okay, it's time.

01:53:53.000 Take the day off.

01:53:54.000 I was like, no, no, no, I'm going to train now.

01:53:55.000 He's like, take the day off.

01:53:57.000 And then I'll take a day off, I come back, and I'm beasting it in the gym the next day.

01:54:01.000 Where I would have just continually beat down my body and never really recovered and got better.

01:54:06.000 Right. 0.98

01:54:06.000 So, like, you would come in, and you'd feel kind of flat, and you'd be like, fuck this, I gotta push through this. 0.98

01:54:10.000 Yeah. 0.96

01:54:11.000 Well, sometimes it's important to push through it, but other times when you know you're at that level, it's like, hey, you gotta pull yourself back.

01:54:17.000 See, that's the crazy thing about fighting and training and learning. 0.70

01:54:20.000 But it fucks with your mind. 0.95

01:54:21.000 Yeah. 0.72

01:54:21.000 I mean, you might be able to do it and pull it off, and it might not be the right way, but it might be successful. 0.72

01:54:28.000 And so you do it that way every time.

01:54:30.000 I mean, I've had fighters tell me there's no such thing as overtraining.

01:54:33.000 And I'm like, well, that's crazy.

01:54:35.000 And you're not training hard enough.

01:54:37.000 Well, there's definitely such a thing as overtraining.

01:54:39.000 There is.

01:54:40.000 A lot of guys have done it.

01:54:41.000 If you're constantly steady with your training, you're not training right.

01:54:45.000 Right.

01:54:46.000 You better be getting yourself to the point in your training.

01:54:49.000 Everyone was asking me.

01:54:50.000 I trained once a day.

01:54:52.000 That's it?

01:54:52.000 Usually, once a day.

01:54:54.000 And Saturdays, I would train twice, but the morning was a strength training, and then the night was kickboxing.

01:55:01.000 Now, when you say strength training, what did that involve?

01:55:03.000 Well, I would do my...

01:55:04.000 Depending on the day, I would do a push day, a pull day, and a lower body day.

01:55:08.000 So lifting weights?

01:55:09.000 Lifting weights, yeah.

01:55:10.000 Strength day was always lifting weights.

01:55:11.000 And I used weight training.

01:55:13.000 So, for example, I would kickbox, like, Monday and Tuesday, just once a day.

01:55:18.000 But that hour and a half session, I left everything.

01:55:21.000 When I hit the bag, I couldn't hit ten rounds of bag.

01:55:24.000 Because after round three, I'm gassed.

01:55:27.000 I'm putting all my force, all my energy.

01:55:29.000 I'm training for a nine-minute fight.

01:55:31.000 I'm not training for a marathon.

01:55:33.000 So you need to train the proper energy system in order to, you know, be the most successful.

01:55:38.000 And that's kind of that anaerobic system of constantly pushing yourself, letting yourself recover, pushing yourself, letting yourself recover.

01:55:44.000 If I'm constantly...

01:55:45.000 That's why I never ran a day in my career.

01:55:47.000 You never ran?

01:55:48.000 Never ran a day in my career.

01:55:50.000 Wow!

01:55:51.000 I did not hit the road a day in my career.

01:55:54.000 Wow, that's shocking to a lot of people, me included. 1.00

01:55:57.000 Everyone who hears it's like, you're nuts, you're crazy. 1.00

01:56:00.000 I said, why? 1.00

01:56:01.000 Give me one good reason why.

01:56:03.000 I can give you one, is if you need that time to reflect.

01:56:06.000 If you need that time to mentally prepare yourself.

01:56:09.000 But what does it do for you in the fight?

01:56:12.000 Are you ever going to run 10k in a fight?

01:56:15.000 No, it's a sprint.

01:56:16.000 Do you see sprinters like Usain Bolt doing take 10k runs every morning?

01:56:22.000 He might do it to loosen up and stay relaxed, but there's other ways of doing it.

01:56:26.000 You've mentioned it on your podcast, shadowboxing.

01:56:29.000 Instead of going for a 10k run, shadowbox for 20 minutes.

01:56:34.000 Go into the ring and shadowbox.

01:56:36.000 Envision your opponent.

01:56:37.000 I'm fighting Raymond Daniels.

01:56:39.000 I'm going to pressure fight Raymond Daniels.

01:56:41.000 So I'm going to shadowbox for 20 minutes in the ring like I'm pressure fighting Raymond Daniels.

01:56:46.000 I'm mentally focusing myself.

01:56:48.000 I am using the right energy system because I can pick up my intensity as much as I want.

01:56:53.000 If I just want to stay loose, I just won't punch.

01:56:55.000 I might not even punch.

01:56:56.000 I might just use my footwork.

01:56:58.000 Within the ring to kind of just set my mind, set my feet, but there's so many different ways.

01:57:03.000 You can skip.

01:57:04.000 You can, you know, sometimes I do light training on the bag.

01:57:08.000 I'll do some light rounds on different bags just to warm up my hands and my body and that kind of thing, but I never ran.

01:57:14.000 Too much damage.

01:57:15.000 You're running, shin splints, the damage on your joints.

01:57:19.000 And it didn't hit the energy system you hit in fighting, so why do it?

01:57:22.000 That's really interesting because you always had a very high work output in your fights and you had very good endurance in your fights.

01:57:29.000 Everyone thought there was a secret.

01:57:31.000 I said, I trained hard.

01:57:33.000 In an hour and a half, I trained hard.

01:57:36.000 When I hit the bag, I hit the bag.

01:57:38.000 I wasn't looking around at the time, looking at how much time's left on the clock.

01:57:42.000 I hit the bag.

01:57:44.000 If I knew what I was doing, if I was working something technical or drilling, it's different.

01:57:49.000 But when it's time to work, you gotta put the work in.

01:57:51.000 You gotta be able to cut out all those distractions that you have.

01:57:56.000 It doesn't matter what you have to do after.

01:57:58.000 It doesn't matter what's going on in your day.

01:58:00.000 If your girlfriend or boyfriend broke up with you or whatever the frick it is, you gotta be focused.

01:58:06.000 And you have an hour and a half to do it.

01:58:08.000 Now, when you see MMA fighters that are putting in two-a-days on a regular, sometimes three, what do you think of that?

01:58:15.000 I think it's okay if you're doing it right.

01:58:17.000 I mean, MMA, there's more things happening, right?

01:58:21.000 So, if you're doing a roll in the morning, It's okay, but you're not going to go the hardest rolling you have and then hit the hardest strength and conditioning you have and then at night do your hardest kickboxing session.

01:58:32.000 There's no way the next day you're actually putting 100% of your energy in those sessions.

01:58:37.000 So maybe sometimes if they're doing three sessions, they might put 60% in each session.

01:58:44.000 You're never really hitting that last 40%, which is probably the place you want to be.

01:58:52.000 You want to be in that place where you're not comfortable.

01:58:56.000 You want to be in that place where you're tired, because that's what fighting is, getting yourselves to that point.

01:59:01.000 You want to throw up if you have to, you know?

01:59:04.000 They say it's your mind gives up before the body does.

01:59:09.000 So when you're tired and you're starting to feel all that lactic acid and you shut down, they say it's your brain shutting down first and you have some time to keep going.

01:59:16.000 So you gotta prepare your mind to be able to withstand that. 0.94

01:59:19.000 If you're hitting bag for 10 rounds and you're looking around and you're fucking around, like... 0.98

01:59:23.000 What are you accomplishing that? 0.97

01:59:25.000 Unless you're working on technique or warm-up.

01:59:29.000 Everything has to have a purpose.

01:59:31.000 I don't believe in doing something that doesn't have a purpose.

01:59:34.000 Well, that's one of the things that I really like about the way you drill and one of the things I like about the way you shadow box is that you do everything like you're in a fight.

01:59:41.000 Everything, guard is high, stance is perfect, footwork is perfect.

01:59:46.000 When you say that you lift weights, what kind of weightlifting were you doing once a week?

01:59:53.000 It's the basics, but the most effective.

01:59:55.000 So I would do, I always squatting.

01:59:57.000 Squatting is very important.

01:59:59.000 Why do you think squatting is so important?

02:00:00.000 Lower body.

02:00:01.000 When everything in athletic movements comes from the lower body.

02:00:05.000 You have to have strong hips.

02:00:07.000 You know, your glutes got to be firing at a level.

02:00:10.000 And, you know, when you punch, when you kick, everything comes from your lower body.

02:00:13.000 And that's what people don't understand.

02:00:14.000 So were you squatting heavy?

02:00:15.000 Were you squatting lightweights, high reps?

02:00:17.000 Depends what phase I'm in.

02:00:19.000 If I was in hypertrophy phase, I was probably doing 10 sets of 10 on a lower weight.

02:00:23.000 As I was in power strength phase, I was doing 5 sets of 5. As I was more of the explosive phase, I would do more of like 5 sets of 3. And then I'd maybe superset it with an explosive jump or a standing long jump or a...

02:00:38.000 You know, a skater-style movement, but I'd always use it.

02:00:42.000 I'd add sprints.

02:00:43.000 There's one times where I would do, you know, five heavy explosive squats, and then I would line up on the track right after my set, and I would do, like, ten-yard sprints just to work that explosiveness.

02:00:54.000 So that whole point of getting strength into explosiveness.

02:00:57.000 So that kind of running you believed in?

02:01:00.000 Well, just that little bit.

02:01:01.000 Right.

02:01:01.000 But not too much.

02:01:03.000 That would be like once or twice in a camp.

02:01:04.000 Right.

02:01:04.000 Otherwise, I know my central nervous system was going to shut down.

02:01:07.000 No shit. 0.99

02:01:08.000 Once or twice in a camp, huh? 0.99

02:01:09.000 I wouldn't do it very often.

02:01:10.000 Even that sled running, you know how all the guys are doing the prowler, poles and sleds?

02:01:14.000 If I did that, I'd be out of commission for a week.

02:01:17.000 Because my body would just take a beating and then I wouldn't be able to function and do what I really had to do, which was kickbox the next day.

02:01:26.000 Right, right.

02:01:27.000 Right?

02:01:27.000 So it had to have a purpose.

02:01:28.000 I would do it as a mental test for myself.

02:01:31.000 I would do it as, you know, my weight's not coming off right now.

02:01:35.000 I'm holding a lot of water.

02:01:36.000 Let's run the sleds.

02:01:37.000 I used it as that more than just constantly.

02:01:40.000 If you're running the prowler every day, your nervous system's taking a freaking beating.

02:01:43.000 Right.

02:01:44.000 Now, what about nutrition?

02:01:45.000 What did you eat?

02:01:47.000 How did you monitor your diet?

02:01:49.000 I wasn't super calculated as people are today with counting their macros and micros.

02:01:56.000 That's too complicated.

02:01:57.000 And I don't believe in overcomplicating things.

02:01:59.000 I love the basics.

02:02:00.000 I believe in the basics.

02:02:02.000 So I never overcomplicated things.

02:02:05.000 I knew what good carbs and bad carbs were.

02:02:08.000 I knew good timing when to eat.

02:02:10.000 I knew what things I should be eating when.

02:02:12.000 But I never really counted how many calories I was eating in my day.

02:02:16.000 I just knew through experience.

02:02:19.000 Wow.

02:02:19.000 Yeah, it just came through experience and practicing and playing around with my body.

02:02:23.000 There's no cookie-cutter, you know, approach to it.

02:02:26.000 So, like, what would a typical meal be like for dinner?

02:02:28.000 It would always be a balanced meal.

02:02:30.000 Have a little bit of protein, a little bit of carbs, and some vegetable.

02:02:34.000 There's always has the three.

02:02:35.000 At first, what I was doing when I first started finding, I was like, ah, carbs make you fat.

02:02:40.000 Carbs make you fat.

02:02:41.000 Like, everyone thinks.

02:02:42.000 Everyone wants to diet.

02:02:43.000 The first thing they think they have to do is cut their carbs out.

02:02:45.000 But now there's all this new research about fats and how important is intermittent fasting and how important it is to keep high fats in your diet.

02:02:53.000 So guys are doing the avocados and coconut oils to kind of get that fat.

02:02:59.000 But I just like the balanced meal.

02:03:01.000 I'd rather lower my protein and have a good carbohydrate, which is my first line of energy.

02:03:07.000 So I would eat a lot of sweet potatoes, quinoas, baked potatoes sometimes.

02:03:13.000 Did you supplement with vitamins?

02:03:15.000 Not much.

02:03:16.000 Omega-3s, usually.

02:03:18.000 That's about it.

02:03:19.000 I take an electrolyte after training.

02:03:22.000 That's about it.

02:03:23.000 Nothing crazy.

02:03:24.000 Now, what about...

02:03:25.000 Did you do anything for...

02:03:27.000 Go ahead.

02:03:27.000 I was going to say, but I wasn't the guy that...

02:03:30.000 If I knew how to fight, I cut weight from eight weeks out. 0.99

02:03:33.000 It wasn't like, hey, I'm going to just eat like shit and then I'll deal with it. 0.99

02:03:38.000 No. 0.99

02:03:38.000 Eight weeks out, my diet started with my can't. 0.99

02:03:40.000 Right, so you try to lower your body fat first.

02:03:43.000 I only want to lose two pounds a week.

02:03:44.000 Anything more than two pounds a week becomes unhealthy.

02:03:47.000 Right.

02:03:47.000 So I'd get to about 10 to 12 pounds the week before my fight, and that was it.

02:03:51.000 Once I was there, that last week was all water.

02:03:53.000 And did you do any, like, deep tissue massage or any ice baths or anything like that for recovery?

02:03:59.000 I did a little bit of that.

02:04:00.000 Yeah?

02:04:00.000 Yeah, I did, but it wasn't a big focus.

02:04:03.000 I did a lot of rolling out, stretching, that kind of thing, but...

02:04:07.000 I like Epsom salt baths.

02:04:08.000 Those are one of my things.

02:04:10.000 Yeah, that's great.

02:04:10.000 I love that.

02:04:10.000 Some people are obsessed with deep tissue, though.

02:04:12.000 I know guys that get deep tissue massage every day after training.

02:04:15.000 And you've done that, was it the chiro, how do you say it?

02:04:18.000 Cryotherapy?

02:04:18.000 Cryotherapy.

02:04:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:04:20.000 That's intense.

02:04:20.000 You like it?

02:04:21.000 Love it.

02:04:22.000 You've never done it?

02:04:22.000 No, I haven't done it yet.

02:04:23.000 You want to do it?

02:04:24.000 I'll do it.

02:04:24.000 Let's do it today.

02:04:25.000 I'll take you.

02:04:26.000 Done.

02:04:26.000 All right.

02:04:26.000 I've never done it.

02:04:27.000 Oh, you'll love it.

02:04:28.000 Yeah.

02:04:28.000 Yeah, it'll freak you out.

02:04:29.000 It's cold as fuck. 0.99

02:04:30.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:04:30.000 It's just, you can't believe how cold it is. 1.00

02:04:32.000 You're like, how the fuck is this? 0.98

02:04:33.000 I was like, I gotta try it. 0.98

02:04:34.000 I gotta try it, but.

02:04:35.000 Yeah, never really...

02:04:36.000 250 degrees below zero.

02:04:38.000 Yeah.

02:04:38.000 And how long are you in there?

02:04:39.000 For like 10 seconds?

02:04:39.000 Three minutes.

02:04:41.000 Three minutes?

02:04:41.000 Yeah.

02:04:42.000 Well, you'll do a minute and a half.

02:04:43.000 They won't let you go more than a minute and a half for the first time.

02:04:45.000 What, because they're trying to say I'm soft?

02:04:47.000 No, no, no.

02:04:47.000 For anyone.

02:04:48.000 It's just the rule.

02:04:49.000 The second time you'll do it, they'll let you do three minutes.

02:04:50.000 How long are you going for?

02:04:51.000 Three minutes.

02:04:51.000 I've done 340. That's the longest I've ever done.

02:04:54.000 Those last 40 minutes.

02:04:55.000 Is it three minutes of hell, or is it three minutes of...

02:04:59.000 It's not fun.

02:05:00.000 Mm-hmm.

02:05:01.000 Jamie, you've done it?

02:05:02.000 What's it like, Jamie?

02:05:03.000 Describe it.

02:05:05.000 Not really claustrophobic isn't the word, because there's kinds you can get in that your head's above.

02:05:10.000 You can still breathe in, you can still talk to people.

02:05:12.000 But this kind is not like that.

02:05:13.000 Your head's in there?

02:05:14.000 Yeah, you're in a meat locker, essentially, where the liquid nitrogen cools the oxygen.

02:05:20.000 That woman that died in Vegas, do you know that story?

02:05:23.000 No.

02:05:23.000 Well, she said it herself, and apparently she was kind of short, and her mouth was below the outer lip, and so she was breathing in the liquid nitrogen.

02:05:35.000 And you can't, that's like getting choked out.

02:05:37.000 You have no oxygen.

02:05:38.000 So she just fell asleep.

02:05:40.000 And she froze to death.

02:05:41.000 Oh, man.

02:05:41.000 And they found her the next day frozen solid.

02:05:43.000 See, this is the kind that they have.

02:05:44.000 I always see the heads out.

02:05:46.000 Yeah.

02:05:46.000 That's the kind that most people do, where your head is out and your body's freezing.

02:05:50.000 But look how much fun she's having there. 1.00

02:05:52.000 She's having a great time.

02:05:53.000 She's having a blast in there. 1.00

02:05:54.000 She's doing an ad.

02:05:55.000 The kind I do, if you go to cryo-healthcare, Jamie...

02:05:58.000 The kind we do, you have to wear a mask, you wear like a surgeon's mask over your face, you wear earmuffs, you wear gloves, and you wear...

02:06:07.000 Like slippers.

02:06:08.000 Yeah, you wear socks, and then you wear like rubber Crocs.

02:06:13.000 And you step in there, and you're inside a chamber.

02:06:18.000 Let's see if they have some images.

02:06:20.000 So you can see what it looks like.

02:06:22.000 Have you done that sensory deprivation stuff?

02:06:24.000 I have one in my basement.

02:06:25.000 Yeah?

02:06:25.000 Yeah, I love it.

02:06:26.000 I do that all the time.

02:06:27.000 That's giant.

02:06:28.000 Now, if you're claustrophobic, good or bad, someone says you don't even think about it.

02:06:32.000 It's not the best thing for people who are claustrophobic, but claustrophobia is psychological.

02:06:37.000 See, that's where it is.

02:06:38.000 See how these guys are...

02:06:39.000 That's how they're dressed.

02:06:40.000 And the earmuffs and the face masks.

02:06:44.000 And so you go in that one chamber that's on the right.

02:06:46.000 That's where you take off the robe.

02:06:47.000 And then you step into the one on the left. 1.00

02:06:49.000 And that one is the one where you freeze your dick off. 0.99

02:06:53.000 So you'll do, in a little bit, we're going to take you over there. 0.99

02:06:56.000 You'll do about a minute and a half in there.

02:06:57.000 It's awesome.

02:06:57.000 I'd love to, man.

02:06:59.000 I just want to know about it because people keep asking me.

02:07:02.000 It's great.

02:07:02.000 Well, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, who's actually on tomorrow, who's a huge proponent of both sauna and cold shock therapy, and she believes that heat shock proteins and cold shock proteins that you get from sauna and you get from cryotherapy,

02:07:19.000 they provide your body with some incredible anti-inflammatory responses.

02:07:25.000 And your body, essentially, when you go to a sauna, your body's freaking out. 0.99

02:07:29.000 Your body's like, what in the fuck? 0.99

02:07:31.000 It's so hot. 0.99

02:07:31.000 But if you do it in a controlled environment for a certain amount of time, your body produces these heat shock proteins that are really beneficial for you. 0.99

02:07:39.000 And so she believes in the sauna.

02:07:42.000 There was a study that she was talking about where the sauna showed...

02:07:46.000 A 50% drop in mortality across the board from all things, whether it's from cancer, disease, all these different things.

02:07:54.000 Like the people who regularly did sauna had such a healthy response to that sauna and having those inflammatory markers reduced in the blood.

02:08:04.000 There it is.

02:08:04.000 Using the sauna four to seven times per week associated with...

02:08:07.000 Oh, it's 40%.

02:08:08.000 40% lower all-cause mortality.

02:08:10.000 That's crazy.

02:08:11.000 Yeah.

02:08:12.000 I was reading something.

02:08:13.000 Tim Ferriss, he has a book now called Tools of the Titans.

02:08:17.000 And he, someone, he, I guess he, he has his own podcast.

02:08:21.000 Yeah.

02:08:21.000 Someone just got the book for me.

02:08:23.000 And he basically talks to all the top people in their field.

02:08:28.000 And so he wrote a list of like all the tips that these people suggested.

02:08:33.000 And a lot of them was on sauna and baths and never really got into too much of the science behind it.

02:08:38.000 But these, you know, people in this field are saying sauna three times a week is probably one of the best things you can do for yourself.

02:08:45.000 Yeah, what she was writing there, HSP, that's what she's talking about, heat shock proteins.

02:08:49.000 And I bet you could probably reproduce that with a hot bath.

02:08:53.000 That's what HSP. Cytokines, too. 0.93

02:08:57.000 That's also what you're getting from cryotherapy.

02:08:59.000 You're getting these anti-inflammatory responses.

02:09:03.000 And I think you probably could get it from hot yoga, too. 0.94

02:09:07.000 Because hot yoga, you get so fucking hot in there.

02:09:10.000 Do you do hot yoga?

02:09:10.000 I love it.

02:09:11.000 I did it.

02:09:12.000 I took a little break, but I'm starting again.

02:09:14.000 Oh, it's amazing.

02:09:14.000 It's amazing for flexibility, too.

02:09:17.000 The class I was in was an hour and a half.

02:09:18.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:09:19.000 And that shit was long. 1.00

02:09:20.000 It's long. 1.00

02:09:20.000 It sucks. 1.00

02:09:22.000 The last 15 minutes are bullshit. 1.00

02:09:24.000 And the last one, you literally sit up, lay down or something. 1.00

02:09:26.000 I sit up and I'm like, oh, shit, I'm dying, man. 0.99

02:09:29.000 Yeah, it's brutal. 0.99

02:09:30.000 You definitely get used to it, though.

02:09:31.000 But, you know, I see, like...

02:09:33.000 Girls that go to my place. 1.00

02:09:34.000 It'll take two classes in a row, so I feel like such a pussy. 1.00

02:09:36.000 Yeah, seriously. 1.00

02:09:37.000 They're in there for three hours.

02:09:38.000 I'm sitting there struggling, following this old lady besides me, killing it. 1.00

02:09:42.000 I have to use the little foam blocks to even sit down, and everyone's just laughing.

02:09:46.000 You can see all the mirrors, too.

02:09:48.000 The mirrors make it worse, man.

02:09:50.000 Everyone's feel the whole place is staring at me. 1.00

02:09:52.000 Especially if they're looking at you, this fucking muscular stud. 1.00

02:09:54.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

02:09:55.000 And you're next to a 60-year-old lady who's got her foot above her head. 1.00

02:09:58.000 That's funny.

02:09:58.000 When I was going, I was with my ex-girlfriend.

02:10:01.000 So a lot of the old ladies would go, is that your boyfriend? 0.97

02:10:05.000 He's so cute for trying. 0.98

02:10:06.000 Because I was trying my ass up. 0.94

02:10:08.000 Because I'm an athlete, man. 1.00

02:10:09.000 I'm not letting this old lady be able to do this shit and I'm standing here struggling. 1.00

02:10:13.000 Are you crazy? 1.00

02:10:14.000 But it's like you were talking about before. 0.99

02:10:15.000 If you took a marathon runner and then put him in a pool, they would be dying.

02:10:19.000 But still, you're an athlete, man.

02:10:20.000 You're going to try, man.

02:10:21.000 Of course.

02:10:22.000 Competitive guy like you.

02:10:23.000 Sweating extra from trying so hard.

02:10:25.000 It was tough, but I love it, man.

02:10:26.000 You know what I feel from yoga, especially from the last year where I've been really consistent with it, is that I feel like all the...

02:10:33.000 Like, there's a lot of things that are really good for your body.

02:10:35.000 I think lifting weights is good for your body if you do it correctly.

02:10:37.000 For sure.

02:10:38.000 Martial arts, all sorts of training is good for your body.

02:10:40.000 But I feel like what yoga does for your balance and for all the things that connect, like for your joints and your spine...

02:10:48.000 I've never done anything where I can feel my back pop loose, like pop, pop.

02:10:53.000 Like, there's things you do in yoga where you...

02:10:56.000 You bend down and you reach behind your heels and you tuck your hands under your heels and then you straighten your legs out with your body flat and so you're pulling your body apart with your legs.

02:11:07.000 Like you're literally pulling your spine apart.

02:11:09.000 You hear it go thunk thunk thunk thunk.

02:11:11.000 It's so good for you and you leave like Like, my back is always, like, from all the years of jiu-jitsu, there's always, like, a pain.

02:11:19.000 There's always, like, a something.

02:11:20.000 Something nagging.

02:11:21.000 Yeah, there's always something. 1.00

02:11:22.000 But yoga eliminates almost all that shit. 0.99

02:11:24.000 Because even when I was doing it, like, I realized how much scar tissue and shit have developed in my joints. 0.98

02:11:30.000 Like, even if my arm, like, I can't fully straighten my left arm. 0.59

02:11:33.000 And there's the one where you have to kind of put your pinkies together and lay on your arms.

02:11:37.000 Yeah.

02:11:37.000 And that really helps stretch it out.

02:11:40.000 And I'm like, oh, this stuff's not good.

02:11:41.000 And then I'm sitting on the couch at home and I'm sitting in positions where I was like, my legs are crossed off.

02:11:47.000 I'm like, I can't even cross my legs.

02:11:48.000 And here I am like in like a Mahatma Gandhi here with my legs super folded in half.

02:11:54.000 I was like, this is crazy.

02:11:55.000 And I loved it.

02:11:55.000 Since then, I wasn't consistent with it, but I said I'm going to be a yoga practitioner for life.

02:12:01.000 Beautiful.

02:12:01.000 Yeah, it's great for mobility.

02:12:03.000 And for people that just want to be healthier, it's just the ability to use and move your body.

02:12:09.000 I think it's amazing.

02:12:10.000 The problem with guys is that negative stereotype. 0.84

02:12:12.000 Oh, it's so gay to do yoga. 1.00

02:12:14.000 Do it, man. 0.97

02:12:15.000 Try it.

02:12:16.000 Yeah, I know.

02:12:17.000 It's weird that it has that stereotype.

02:12:18.000 I don't know why. 1.00

02:12:19.000 It's so stupid, but it's incredible. 1.00

02:12:21.000 I'm loving it. 1.00

02:12:22.000 It's one of the more underestimated things in terms of its difficulty factor.

02:12:28.000 You know, it's just very underestimated.

02:12:31.000 Do you think MMA fighters should be doing it?

02:12:33.000 I think what you were saying about you could only do so many things is very important, which I think one of the reasons why your philosophy about only working out one time a day, no running, I think, well obviously it worked out great.

02:12:44.000 You had amazing success as a fighter.

02:12:46.000 And obviously your endurance was spectacular, your output was spectacular.

02:12:50.000 I mean, you were an aggressive pressure fighter.

02:12:52.000 So when you say that you had this sort of measured approach to training, I think it's very interesting. 0.96

02:12:57.000 Some of the times I've gotten my ass kicked the most in jiu-jitsu was after I took yoga. 0.99

02:13:02.000 I took yoga in the morning and then I went to train at 9 and just got fucking choked. 0.99

02:13:06.000 They say you have to give some time off from training or something because your body is so loose. 0.94

02:13:11.000 The other thing is they say you don't want to overstretch your muscle because then you take it out of that optimal range to fire.

02:13:17.000 So I don't know if you really overstretch things.

02:13:20.000 I don't know if that's true.

02:13:21.000 I know what you're saying.

02:13:23.000 I know they say that in terms of stretching before.

02:13:24.000 If your hamstrings are too flexible or...

02:13:27.000 I don't think that necessarily makes sense.

02:13:30.000 I think where it makes sense is you shouldn't stretch out before you do explosive things.

02:13:35.000 They used to think you should.

02:13:36.000 Now they think you should warm up and get your body sweaty and loose, but that in actually stretching, while you really stretch something out, you actually lessen the amount of power that you can generate with those muscles.

02:13:49.000 Yeah.

02:13:58.000 Yeah.

02:14:10.000 If there's any, there might be a trade-off, like maybe it makes you a little less powerful, but a little more mobile, and then you can generate more power and build more power up and still keep that mobility, that would be optimum.

02:14:23.000 But I think there's probably a middle ground there that you need to reach.

02:14:27.000 What do you think of, I know George St. Pierre came and made gymnastics popular.

02:14:31.000 And then Conor McGregor with that movement.

02:14:34.000 What's your take on that movement?

02:14:35.000 I think footwork is critical in MMA. I think it's really important to be able to get out of the way and move in as fast as possible.

02:14:43.000 And it's one of the things that Conor is spectacular at.

02:14:46.000 Conor is so good at sliding back, sliding back, BAP! And there's also a totally different philosophy that's a part of striking with those little tiny gloves.

02:14:56.000 It's much more difficult to put yourself up in a shell. 0.96

02:14:59.000 I mean, the way you would fight was so fucking classic. 1.00

02:15:01.000 I really, you know, I'm not kissing your ass anymore. 1.00

02:15:03.000 This is it. 1.00

02:15:04.000 This is the last time.

02:15:05.000 But I really loved how you were so solid, rock solid with your defense and your fundamentals.

02:15:10.000 Chin tucked, gloves up high, and it was very hard to get through that.

02:15:13.000 That doesn't necessarily work the same way in MMA because guys can sneak punches through. 0.98

02:15:17.000 It's a little harder.

02:15:18.000 And they can sneak punches around.

02:15:19.000 But I still think you have to have that as a base.

02:15:23.000 I think you're right.

02:15:23.000 No matter what, you're going to get in fight exchanges.

02:15:26.000 And there's a lot of guys who are good at closing distance.

02:15:30.000 So it's better to at least, hey, I'm going to leave and exit with my hands up rather than even exiting with my hands up.

02:15:36.000 100%.

02:15:36.000 I couldn't agree more.

02:15:37.000 And again, the way I throw it...

02:15:39.000 I can still make it work in MMA because one of the tricks that I teach my MMA guys is instead of keeping that front arm pinned, you keep it up here.

02:15:49.000 So it covers the center.

02:15:51.000 So you're lifting your front elbow a little higher?

02:15:52.000 And kind of tucking it in.

02:15:53.000 So this way, your elbow now covers the center line.

02:15:56.000 Right, I see what you're saying.

02:15:57.000 So now it's harder for straight punches.

02:16:00.000 And you gotta think, you gave me a straight punch and I put my elbow in front to block the center line, if you punch your two knuckles on an MMA glove on my elbow, good luck. 0.51

02:16:08.000 Yeah, break your hand. 0.79

02:16:09.000 Yeah.

02:16:09.000 So you can really manipulate that front elbow to be able to kind of use that defense and kind of make it work.

02:16:17.000 But again, I still believe in movement.

02:16:19.000 There's another issue in MMA, too, is breaking hands.

02:16:22.000 A lot of guys break hands with those little gloves.

02:16:25.000 But when you did old-school martial arts, how did you train your hands?

02:16:28.000 Well, you know what, man?

02:16:29.000 There's a lot of guys.

02:16:30.000 My friend John was a nut about this.

02:16:33.000 My friend John Lee, who was a U.S. National Taekwondo champion, he used to punch bricks, and he had one knuckle.

02:16:39.000 His two knuckles had forged into this one giant callous knuckle.

02:16:44.000 Have you seen those old Masoyama guys? 0.89

02:16:49.000 I don't even see a knuckle anymore. 1.00

02:16:51.000 But then I heard that shit's super bad as you get older. 0.99

02:16:55.000 You get massive arthritis and you can't write your own name anymore. 0.99

02:17:00.000 I played around with doing some bag work with no gloves on.

02:17:05.000 I keep my wraps on sometimes, mostly just to avoid the scraping and the cutting, but I'll hit the bags with no gloves on and I'll literally hit my hand on different angles.

02:17:15.000 For example, I'll sit there and I'll hit the side, I'll back fist it.

02:17:18.000 You need that Like I said earlier in the podcast, you need to strengthen everything.

02:17:23.000 You need to strengthen all those little parts.

02:17:25.000 And that's why one of my last Instagram videos I said, add weighted just a one pound or two pound dumbbell to your shadowboxing.

02:17:34.000 Because again, you're working those little joints you might not necessarily work.

02:17:38.000 Like if you have those dumbbells and you rotate your hands in a circle, you're going to feel your elbow work at different movements and different ways that help strengthen the joints.

02:17:47.000 So those little minor things add up at the end.

02:17:51.000 I'm sure.

02:17:51.000 Did you ever squeeze like hand grippers or anything like that?

02:17:54.000 Not really with that.

02:17:56.000 A lot of guys are into that, too.

02:17:57.000 I've gotten more into that lately.

02:18:00.000 That was old school.

02:18:01.000 Yeah, there's a company called Captains of Crush.

02:18:03.000 They make ones that are like 197 pounds to squeeze.

02:18:06.000 They make them up to...

02:18:07.000 I think they go even heavier than that, but I have ones at home that are 140, 160. I keep them in my car and just fucking... 0.99

02:18:15.000 Especially for your jiu-jitsu though, that develops naturally. 0.99

02:18:19.000 Yes, it does develop naturally, but that accentuates it.

02:18:22.000 Definitely accentuates it.

02:18:23.000 And hanging from your hands, like from a chin-up bar.

02:18:27.000 You know what?

02:18:28.000 My jiu-jitsu guy at my gym loves it.

02:18:31.000 He's like, man, he's like, you've got to hang.

02:18:33.000 And we're like, buddy, get out of here.

02:18:34.000 He's literally hanging.

02:18:36.000 And it was like, he says what it's done for his joints has been incredible.

02:18:40.000 Yeah, that was another shoulder issue.

02:18:42.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

02:18:43.000 That's another Steve Maxwell thing he brought up on this podcast about being able to loosen the shoulders up and alleviate a lot of the impingements through hanging.

02:18:50.000 And people who are interested in this, they're listening, if you have a shoulder injury, there's a bunch of videos of it online while they explain it.

02:18:58.000 Another thing that I got into recently was bottoms-up kettlebells.

02:19:02.000 You know, like this is a kettlebell here and when you most of the time you hold a kettlebell you'd hold it like this.

02:19:07.000 Okay.

02:19:08.000 Well, when you hold it the other way, you hold it like this.

02:19:11.000 You really have to shrink.

02:19:12.000 Yeah, you're developing like real stability in your shoulders that you don't ordinarily.

02:19:18.000 It's more like a stability.

02:19:20.000 Yeah.

02:19:20.000 Yeah, because it's not like it's hard to hold it up.

02:19:23.000 You know, like it's not the weight itself not that hard to lift because like this Ironman kettlebell is only 40 pounds.

02:19:29.000 I was actually talking about those today.

02:19:31.000 They're dope, right?

02:19:32.000 Whitney Miller.

02:19:32.000 Yeah.

02:19:33.000 She's with Glory now, right?

02:19:35.000 Yes, yeah, yeah.

02:19:35.000 She's the backstage.

02:19:36.000 She was telling us about it.

02:19:37.000 Yeah, she was telling me you guys are friends.

02:19:39.000 Yeah, I love these things.

02:19:40.000 But bottoms up, kettlebells, doesn't have to be an Ironman, any kind.

02:19:44.000 It's very weird how hard it is to balance it in place.

02:19:49.000 It's probably like the yoga, right?

02:19:50.000 It's excellent for stability.

02:19:51.000 Some of those poses when you're on your ball of your foot balancing on one leg, the strongest bodybuilder in the world, not a chance.

02:19:59.000 What I was shocked with was how my feet would hurt. 0.94

02:20:02.000 When I first started getting into yoga, I'm like, God, my feet are fucking killing me.

02:20:05.000 Like when you would do the standing bow pose, my feet would be shaking.

02:20:07.000 I was like, it's so weird.

02:20:10.000 It's such a weird, weird little muscles that you don't think, you got to think, well, God, I've been kicking things forever.

02:20:16.000 My feet have to be strong.

02:20:18.000 So back to that movement.

02:20:20.000 Do you like that movement stuff?

02:20:21.000 Yes.

02:20:21.000 I do and I don't.

02:20:23.000 But it's like what I was saying about yoga.

02:20:25.000 I think you made a really good point.

02:20:27.000 You can't do everything.

02:20:28.000 And you probably wind up doing too much.

02:20:30.000 And you want to.

02:20:30.000 Yeah.

02:20:31.000 But I think that there's something to the ability to move your body.

02:20:35.000 And it's one of the things that Eddie Bravo's brought up many times with... 0.96

02:20:39.000 We have seen over the last few years is break dancers who have gotten into MMA or gotten into Jiu Jitsu rather and they're fucking phenomenal. 0.98

02:20:49.000 I mean two of Eddie's best students, Richie Martinez and Gio Martinez are fucking break dancers. 0.98

02:20:55.000 So these guys are ridiculously... 1.00

02:20:58.000 their dexterity is ridiculous. 0.98

02:21:00.000 So they can like stand on one hand and have the other hand up in the air and their feet are up and they spin. 0.97

02:21:06.000 They can spin on their head.

02:21:07.000 Crazy.

02:21:08.000 Unbelievable ability to move their bodies.

02:21:10.000 And that translates directly into grappling.

02:21:13.000 And they learn so quick...

02:21:15.000 I had heard about these guys when they were just starting.

02:21:17.000 He's like, dude, these guys, they've been doing jujitsu for three months. 0.99

02:21:20.000 They're fucking choking everybody. 0.99

02:21:21.000 I'm like, that's crazy. 0.99

02:21:22.000 He's like, I'm telling you, it just makes sense.

02:21:25.000 They can move their body in a way that you can't move your body.

02:21:28.000 And I think there's mobility and the ability to effectively...

02:21:34.000 Manipulate your body in a way that's alien to other people, I think has significant advantages.

02:21:39.000 And I think that comes from what that Ido Portal guy is doing.

02:21:43.000 And I think that comes from yoga.

02:21:44.000 I think that comes from a lot of these break dancers.

02:21:47.000 But it's a matter of, like, how much time do you spend doing that?

02:21:52.000 And is it something that you start doing when you're 28 when you're a professional fighter as a world champion? 0.50

02:21:56.000 Or is it something you need to do when you're 15 and you're a crazy kid fucking around in high school and you get really good at it and then you translate that ability to move your body directly into martial arts?

02:22:07.000 See I look now and as a 31 year old, I look back now and I say what would I have done if I knew I was gonna end up as a professional fighter? 0.71

02:22:16.000 What would I have done from a young age in order for me to improve to where I was?

02:22:21.000 I want to hear your take on it.

02:22:22.000 So what would you do as a kid?

02:22:23.000 I'll give you an example.

02:22:25.000 One of my things I would have done, gymnastics from a young age.

02:22:28.000 Great thing to say.

02:22:30.000 And my other one, dancing.

02:22:31.000 It's a great thing too, yeah.

02:22:33.000 That's a great thing. 0.95

02:22:33.000 That's why I think Chris Brown's going to fuck up Soulja Boy. 0.95

02:22:35.000 Told you. 0.97

02:22:36.000 Yeah, I think the ability to move your body, you know, the ability to move it really well.

02:22:40.000 I mean, I noticed that going from Taekwondo to Jiu Jitsu that I had great balance.

02:22:44.000 Transferable skills.

02:22:45.000 Yeah, you're used to standing on one leg all the time, so your ability to maintain that position is much better than someone who's not.

02:22:51.000 And I noticed that even translating directly into yoga.

02:22:54.000 But I think it depends on what kind of fighting you're trying to do.

02:22:58.000 Like, if I wanted to get into MMA, one of the things that I tell people is that wrestling is probably the most important skill The ability to dictate where the fight takes place.

02:23:10.000 That was a gigantic key to the success of Georges St-Pierre and the success of many, many fighters.

02:23:15.000 And also the success of many strikers is their defensive wrestling, their ability to keep the fight standing.

02:23:20.000 So if you have the ability to take a guy down and you have the ability to make sure he doesn't take you down, then you can better dictate where the fight takes place. 0.99

02:23:29.000 So I think and I think it's also a skill that's really that's that translates so incredibly well when you learn it early in life, but Striking Is the scariest shit. 0.93

02:23:41.000 And striking is also something that I think there's a diminished effectiveness in learning as you get older. 0.88

02:23:48.000 There's something about, like, I've seen people that didn't start doing jiu-jitsu until they're 30 and they developed elite black belt skills.

02:23:54.000 How's Russell Peters, by the way?

02:23:56.000 Russell's great!

02:23:57.000 Is he good?

02:23:57.000 Is he good at jiu-jitsu?

02:23:58.000 Is he just starting?

02:23:59.000 He eats too much.

02:24:00.000 He drinks too much.

02:24:02.000 He's beautiful.

02:24:02.000 I love Russell.

02:24:03.000 I saw that picture.

02:24:03.000 It's awesome.

02:24:04.000 Yeah, man.

02:24:04.000 He's training.

02:24:05.000 We train, you know?

02:24:06.000 He gets after him, man.

02:24:08.000 He gets tired.

02:24:09.000 Yeah.

02:24:09.000 I love him.

02:24:10.000 I love that guy to death.

02:24:12.000 But back to the question about training.

02:24:16.000 It depends on what you would want to do.

02:24:18.000 So with striking, then, you were saying?

02:24:20.000 Striking, I think footwork and movement.

02:24:25.000 I think the ability to get in and out.

02:24:28.000 When you look at guys who are really good at not being there when their opponent attacks, when you look at guys who have fantastic footwork and I think maybe if you want to be a striker, I think really just working...

02:24:42.000 I think what you're saying about your training regimen, that you would essentially...

02:24:47.000 You're not running.

02:24:48.000 You're not doing all these different things.

02:24:49.000 You're focusing entirely on what you will do in an actual fight.

02:24:53.000 So maybe you didn't do anything wrong.

02:24:54.000 Maybe you did it perfect.

02:24:55.000 That's it.

02:24:55.000 Who knows?

02:24:56.000 Yeah.

02:24:56.000 It works, man.

02:24:57.000 I don't know.

02:24:58.000 I just think, like you said, people are doing way too much, and that's the problem.

02:25:02.000 And they're not...

02:25:04.000 Things have to have a purpose, like my strength training.

02:25:08.000 There's all these new tools and these new fun things like, hey, let's do this crazy exercise where I'm doing a deadlift into a squat into some shoulder press.

02:25:17.000 Why don't you deadlift?

02:25:20.000 Do it well.

02:25:21.000 And then why don't you squat?

02:25:23.000 Do it well.

02:25:24.000 And then why don't you shoulder press?

02:25:25.000 And do it well in a safe, proper manner.

02:25:27.000 It doesn't have to be overcomplicated.

02:25:30.000 I think people are trying to overcomplicate and that's what kind of takes away from their success is overcomplicating things.

02:25:36.000 And wouldn't you also agree that it depends entirely upon the kind of body that a person was born with?

02:25:41.000 Absolutely.

02:25:42.000 Genetics is huge.

02:25:43.000 Yeah, it's giant.

02:25:44.000 And it's sort of like the inescapable factor.

02:25:47.000 If someone has genetic advantages, they just win.

02:25:52.000 They even say power hitting.

02:25:54.000 I don't know.

02:25:54.000 You can teach someone to hit harder, but there's just those naturally...

02:25:58.000 Guys who can just knock you out from day one.

02:26:01.000 Just a natural hitting ability.

02:26:03.000 You can't teach someone to hit like George Foreman.

02:26:05.000 No.

02:26:05.000 No way.

02:26:06.000 It is what it is.

02:26:07.000 No matter how much you turn your shoulder and you put your hip into it, you're not hitting them.

02:26:11.000 Isn't it crazy too that you can't tell by looking at someone?

02:26:14.000 Like there's some people you would look at them and they don't look like a big puncher, but they were murderous.

02:26:19.000 Yeah.

02:26:20.000 You know what it is?

02:26:20.000 A lot of those tall guys, they have that stiffness in that, it's like a stiff power that's really tough sometimes.

02:26:27.000 It's like a stiff power, but it hurts.

02:26:29.000 Well, it's a mechanical advantage, you know, that leverage, which also translates to jiu-jitsu.

02:26:34.000 It's a giant advantage in jiu-jitsu to have long limbs.

02:26:38.000 It's tough.

02:26:38.000 Back to the long point from before, but I became my best as a martial artist with color commentary.

02:26:45.000 You have to know everything.

02:26:47.000 You have to watch a fight, and you have to be able to assess instantly what's going on, how they're doing it.

02:26:56.000 You've got to do it on the fly.

02:26:57.000 You don't have time, right?

02:26:59.000 So you have to be able to pick things up quickly.

02:27:01.000 And now I'm at the point where I can look at someone, as soon as they get into their stance, I'll be like, okay, you've got to do this, this, this, and this.

02:27:07.000 Well, it's funny, too, when you can tell when a guy's going to kick.

02:27:10.000 Like, oh, here comes a right kick.

02:27:12.000 You just see it.

02:27:12.000 You see that back heel come up.

02:27:14.000 You see him leaning a little bit.

02:27:15.000 Or especially when the guy's going to spin.

02:27:17.000 That's the big giveaway.

02:27:18.000 You see that left hip turn a little.

02:27:20.000 The insteps that you step out.

02:27:22.000 Yeah, you can see it.

02:27:23.000 You can see it.

02:27:24.000 How do you think?

02:27:25.000 Would you be a good coach?

02:27:27.000 If I was invested in it, I would be the best coach that I could be, for sure.

02:27:31.000 And that's one of the reasons why I stopped teaching.

02:27:33.000 I stopped teaching when I started doing stand-up comedy because I wasn't being a very good teacher anymore.

02:27:37.000 Just because you didn't put the time and the effort into it?

02:27:39.000 It wasn't where my head was at.

02:27:40.000 My head was now, I was, you know, there was no, like I said, there was no money in fighting when I was fighting.

02:27:46.000 There was nothing.

02:27:47.000 And so, unless I was, you were a boxer, you weren't going to make any money.

02:27:50.000 So that was before Fear Factor?

02:27:51.000 Yeah, way before.

02:27:53.000 So there was essentially no way to have a career other than teaching.

02:27:59.000 And so when I started getting into stand-up comedy, I realized, like...

02:28:02.000 I got talked into it by guys I used to train with.

02:28:04.000 And when I started doing it, I realized, like, oh, wow, like, I could make a living doing this.

02:28:09.000 Like, this is actually, there's a real path.

02:28:11.000 Like, there's guys that I know that make a living doing this.

02:28:13.000 Where everybody I know that's fighting is broke, or they're slurring their words. 0.99

02:28:16.000 And, like, guys from the gym that would be in gym wars all the time, and now they're all fucked up. 0.94

02:28:20.000 They don't want to know where they parked their car. 0.99

02:28:21.000 There was a lot of that shit that was scaring the fuck out of me. 0.99

02:28:24.000 So when I started getting into comedy, I quit teaching. 0.99

02:28:29.000 And I suffered financially because of it, but I would rather do that at the time, my mind was, I would rather suffer financially than give anybody a half-assed coaching job.

02:28:38.000 Yeah.

02:28:40.000 So, coaching MMA, I think, is one of the most difficult things in all sports.

02:28:47.000 I'm sure coaching kickboxing is probably very similar in that regard in that you're so invested in your students.

02:28:53.000 There's so much on the line.

02:28:54.000 You have to be.

02:28:54.000 Yeah, and there's nothing you can do.

02:28:58.000 You can train them as much as you can, but you've got to let them go when they get into that ring or get into that cage and hope that it all plays.

02:29:07.000 But the other problem I find with MMA is a lot of coaches, there's too many coaches I find.

02:29:14.000 You have, a lot of these guys have a boxing coach that's telling them to box a certain way.

02:29:19.000 Then all of a sudden they're going, hey, I got to do Muay Thai now.

02:29:22.000 So they have a Muay Thai coach is now telling them to do Muay Thai this way. 0.95

02:29:26.000 Then all of a sudden, hey, we got to do spinning shit, so let's do what it was here. 0.78

02:29:30.000 So now all of a sudden you have three different coaches all telling you to do different things. 0.98

02:29:34.000 Yeah.

02:29:34.000 So now this poor fighter is going to go to the ring.

02:29:37.000 Yeah, you might know everything from all of them, but what are you going to do?

02:29:41.000 You're going to get confused.

02:29:43.000 That's where, again, basics are important. 0.99

02:29:46.000 That's why I don't think you should overcomplicate shit. 0.98

02:29:48.000 So I know if you're going to jab, I know how I'm going to do it. 0.98

02:29:51.000 I don't have time to sit there and be like, okay, I know I can parry.

02:29:54.000 I know I can slip.

02:29:55.000 I know I can time with the low kick.

02:29:57.000 You have to know.

02:29:58.000 And I think with too many... 0.99

02:30:02.000 Because coaches are complicating shit for these guys. 0.96

02:30:05.000 Where they think they have to hit all of these things, so they're going to all these different coaches and it's way over complicated. 0.99

02:30:12.000 So who do you listen to?

02:30:13.000 How do you listen to?

02:30:14.000 Which way is the right way?

02:30:15.000 Which one is the wrong way?

02:30:16.000 My boxing coach is telling me to turn my heel out.

02:30:19.000 My kickboxing coach is telling me to keep my front foot pointing forward.

02:30:22.000 Which is the right way?

02:30:24.000 It's a good point, and I think that's where guys like Matt Hume, guys like Farras Ahavi, that's why they're so important.

02:30:30.000 Absolutely.

02:30:30.000 Because they're overall MMA coaches.

02:30:33.000 And also I think what's really important about guys like Matt and Farras is that both of those guys are highly accomplished martial artists in all disciplines.

02:30:40.000 So they really know how to put it all together.

02:30:42.000 That's the key.

02:30:42.000 Like Farras is a black belt in jiu-jitsu, he's an outstanding striker, so he knows how to combine all those things together.

02:30:48.000 I think that's so critical.

02:30:49.000 Greg Jackson was probably the same way.

02:30:52.000 Yeah.

02:30:52.000 I mean, there's maybe a dozen of them on the planet, and that's a problem.

02:30:57.000 If you're not near any of those, and you start out with someone, and then that coach becomes like a mentor figure to you, and then you realize, oh, my coach is kind of limited in a lot of ways.

02:31:06.000 It's very difficult to separate yourself from someone.

02:31:08.000 It's hard to see that.

02:31:09.000 Yes.

02:31:10.000 And you can't be a fighter who you put all your trust into this man to help you out, then all of a sudden you're like, oh, he's lacking things.

02:31:17.000 Yeah.

02:31:17.000 I remember with Mitch Gagnon, he came to me and he was like, he had a guy working with him all the time.

02:31:25.000 And I was just kind of like, I go to his friend who asked me to help him with his strike.

02:31:30.000 I was like, man, I don't know if I can help this guy.

02:31:32.000 He's just so bad technically at this point.

02:31:35.000 Where I'm like, it's a lot of work I have to do to kind of fix and clean things up.

02:31:39.000 And that's my way.

02:31:41.000 But he was so good at just being a beast and not caring that he was successful.

02:31:47.000 My way of putting things is like, I wish I learned this earlier.

02:31:52.000 I wish I had this.

02:31:53.000 And then there was kind of, sometimes you can kind of get angry about it, man.

02:31:56.000 Why did I waste so many years with this guy if this is the way it should have been done from the beginning?

02:32:02.000 Yeah, I mean, obviously people are limited geographically as far as having a good coach near them.

02:32:06.000 But I urge anybody listening to this to put the research in before you join a gym.

02:32:11.000 It's so much harder to unlearn something than it is to learn it.

02:32:16.000 One of the things that I would deal with in teaching Taekwondo is guys who came from other martial arts that didn't know how to do certain things correctly. 0.99

02:32:24.000 Their knees would be down.

02:32:26.000 They didn't lift the knee above the hip.

02:32:28.000 They didn't get real power into anything.

02:32:29.000 They'd never worked with a kicking bag.

02:32:31.000 They'd never worked with a heavy bag.

02:32:32.000 They'd just done stuff in the air.

02:32:34.000 And so they didn't have any power.

02:32:36.000 And so you'd have to try to re-teach them.

02:32:38.000 And when they would get tired, it'd be the same thing.

02:32:41.000 Foot up, knee down, everything would be all screwed.

02:32:43.000 Even when you're tired, you've got to stick to the proper technique.

02:32:47.000 You would fall into what you learned first.

02:32:50.000 Yeah.

02:32:51.000 It's tough.

02:32:52.000 Yeah.

02:32:52.000 It's tough.

02:32:52.000 And you always want to trust that person.

02:32:55.000 Because you can't.

02:32:56.000 You have to.

02:32:57.000 And that's a lot of the fighters' confidence comes from their coach.

02:33:01.000 Yeah.

02:33:02.000 So you have to.

02:33:02.000 But it's kind of hard.

02:33:04.000 It's very hard.

02:33:04.000 It's hard to find that balance.

02:33:06.000 And it's also you have to have a relationship with that coach where you like them.

02:33:10.000 Yeah.

02:33:10.000 That's hard too.

02:33:11.000 So if you were to have an MMA fight, where would you go?

02:33:15.000 Man.

02:33:15.000 Is that putting you on the spot?

02:33:17.000 No, but I think those guys that you talked about right there, Farasa Habi, Matt Hume, those two guys are, in my opinion, like cream of the croc.

02:33:25.000 Duke Rufus.

02:33:26.000 You know, I think you would have to have someone also that sees what you do well and says, well, this is obviously your primary base.

02:33:34.000 You're really good at this.

02:33:35.000 So let's work on all these other aspects, too.

02:33:37.000 But we're not going to try to take this away from you and turn you into a wrestler. 0.99

02:33:41.000 And then you're going to fight a real wrestler and get fucked up. 0.99

02:33:43.000 Yeah. 0.97

02:33:44.000 It's, I mean, and it's such a creative approach because you're creating a fighter.

02:33:50.000 I mean, you take someone and you're putting all the tools together and you're helping them, helping mold them.

02:33:56.000 But then it's also up to them, too.

02:33:58.000 It's up to them to be improvisational inside the ring or the octagon and to figure out how to put those things together.

02:34:04.000 And everyone's got their own little style.

02:34:06.000 Their own, yeah.

02:34:07.000 Their own approach, you know?

02:34:08.000 And again, a lot of the difference is, like, I mean...

02:34:12.000 Just because I do something differently than someone else doesn't necessarily mean their way is the wrong way.

02:34:17.000 Right, right.

02:34:17.000 Of course, I'm going to believe my system is the best system and the way, but it's not to say it's the only way.

02:34:24.000 No, there's no only way.

02:34:26.000 And that's what I love.

02:34:27.000 Yeah.

02:34:27.000 You have to be open to know that there's other ways.

02:34:30.000 And that's where I've been touching around on that.

02:34:33.000 Have you read The Book of Five Rings?

02:34:34.000 Yes.

02:34:35.000 And he talks about you have to know your weaknesses.

02:34:37.000 You have to know other arts in order to make your art and style the best.

02:34:41.000 That's Musashi.

02:34:42.000 Nice.

02:34:43.000 That's the tattoo.

02:34:44.000 I've been reading it.

02:34:45.000 I can only read one page at a time. 0.99

02:34:48.000 Because I'm like, shit, I gotta sit there, I gotta reflect on it. 0.99

02:34:50.000 It's deep, man. 1.00

02:34:51.000 He was a deep dude. 0.69

02:34:52.000 I mean, he killed 60 people with swords. 0.84

02:34:54.000 One-on-one combat.

02:34:56.000 Miyamoto Musashi, one of the greatest samurais ever.

02:34:58.000 And during a weird phase in history, he was a ronin, traveling around, just getting in sword fights.

02:35:04.000 Crazy.

02:35:05.000 And doing calligraphy and art.

02:35:07.000 He opened my mind to this idea that you have to be balanced in order to be effective in combat.

02:35:13.000 You can't have any holes in your mental game.

02:35:14.000 And one of the ways to not have holes in the mental game was that he would approach everything as like art.

02:35:21.000 Everything you did, whether you were writing your name, whether you were, you know, filling out a form, driving your car.

02:35:27.000 No cars back then, obviously.

02:35:29.000 But everything that you did, you would do with excellence.

02:35:32.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:35:33.000 Who's a bad motherfucker? 1.00

02:35:34.000 Oh, for sure. 1.00

02:35:35.000 I'm loving it, man.

02:35:36.000 Like, it's deep.

02:35:37.000 It's great.

02:35:37.000 And you talk about it and you look at it.

02:35:39.000 You can look at yourself sometimes and be like, yeah, man, I'm the modern day of some of the stories he does.

02:35:43.000 Like, I did that in a different way.

02:35:45.000 You know, and I think that's really cool for me to see and read.

02:35:48.000 Yeah, because it translates.

02:35:50.000 You know, this guy lived that life.

02:35:53.000 It was just a different time.

02:35:54.000 Yeah. 0.95

02:35:55.000 And then sat down and tried to relay the information that he had accumulated over this life of fucking people up with swords. 0.65

02:36:02.000 I have a random question.

02:36:03.000 I'd ask you about fighting.

02:36:05.000 True or false?

02:36:06.000 Was it a real story that you wanted to fight Wesley Snipes?

02:36:09.000 It wasn't my idea.

02:36:10.000 Because I always wanted to know about that.

02:36:13.000 Yeah, that was a real story.

02:36:14.000 One of the original producers of the UFC, Campbell McLaren, who's a buddy of mine, Yeah, I did a reality show with him.

02:36:20.000 What was it?

02:36:20.000 I did Combates Americas.

02:36:22.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:36:22.000 I was a guest coach on it.

02:36:25.000 Well, they're still doing that show.

02:36:26.000 They're still having fights.

02:36:28.000 He's still putting on fights.

02:36:29.000 It was cool because one of the guys that I was like a guest kickboxing coach on the show now fights with Glory, Daniel Morales.

02:36:37.000 Yeah, wow.

02:36:38.000 That's awesome, man.

02:36:39.000 It was a cool experience.

02:36:40.000 So he came to me with the idea because Wesley Snipes had tax problems.

02:36:43.000 That's what it was about.

02:36:44.000 So yeah, we're going to do it.

02:36:45.000 So you would have?

02:36:46.000 I was gonna, yeah.

02:36:47.000 Would it have been a UFC sanction, bro?

02:36:48.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:36:50.000 That would have been interesting.

02:36:51.000 Who knows?

02:36:53.000 That's why I asked earlier.

02:36:54.000 I was like, should I ask him or not?

02:36:55.000 I'm like, I gotta ask.

02:36:56.000 Well, he had a martial arts background.

02:36:58.000 I know he did a lot of karate, and I know he was a good kicker.

02:37:02.000 You could tell when he'd throw punches and kicks that he knew how to execute techniques.

02:37:05.000 But he'd never fought.

02:37:07.000 And he had no jujitsu at all.

02:37:10.000 Zero.

02:37:10.000 And I was like, well, good luck.

02:37:12.000 Was he thinking about taking it?

02:37:14.000 He took it.

02:37:15.000 We had lawyers.

02:37:17.000 We had signed contracts.

02:37:18.000 Or we had negotiated contracts.

02:37:20.000 Aren't you an unlockable character on the UFC game?

02:37:22.000 Lockable.

02:37:23.000 Yeah, unlockable.

02:37:24.000 Yeah.

02:37:26.000 Unlockable.

02:37:28.000 You can unlock me.

02:37:30.000 Yeah, it's a character. 0.98

02:37:32.000 It's weird that you have to do some weird fucking thing to do it. 0.98

02:37:34.000 You have to do that. 0.99

02:37:35.000 What is it called?

02:37:36.000 It's the old Konami code.

02:37:37.000 It's like a well-known code.

02:37:39.000 In order to get you on the game?

02:37:40.000 Yeah, you can do that and you can unlock me.

02:37:43.000 Do you fight as you?

02:37:45.000 No, I don't play video games.

02:37:47.000 I have a problem with my brain.

02:37:49.000 I can't get involved in games.

02:37:51.000 I get too obsessed.

02:37:53.000 I have an addictive personality.

02:37:55.000 I try to avoid all things that are negative or waste time that can be addictive.

02:38:01.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

02:38:02.000 You have to know that.

02:38:03.000 You know what's crazy, too?

02:38:05.000 I've worked with kids with special needs, and I work a lot with autism.

02:38:10.000 And I realized, and I was like, man, these kids are just so obsessed with certain things and routine.

02:38:16.000 And then I started looking at other people in my life, and I'm like, maybe we all have that little bit of that autistic traits in us.

02:38:23.000 You have to be obsessed.

02:38:24.000 For me to be a world champion, I had to be obsessed with training.

02:38:27.000 You can't just do it and be okay.

02:38:29.000 Because these people living with autism, they're just so obsessed with that one thing.

02:38:35.000 I have students who are so obsessed with the train system.

02:38:38.000 And then all of a sudden, they can't think of anything else but the train system.

02:38:43.000 And they'll tell you anywhere how to get in Toronto.

02:38:45.000 They'll tell you which bus, which way, the most intelligent people you've ever met.

02:38:50.000 But if you ask them a simple question, They won't know it because they just don't care.

02:38:54.000 Their mind is so focused on one thing and autism is just beautiful and crazy at the same time.

02:38:58.000 I think it's beautiful to see someone so obsessed and not caring about other things than what they're focused on.

02:39:04.000 It doesn't work well in society, obviously, but they're so absorbed in it.

02:39:08.000 And I think back and I was like, man, a lot of us have these personalities.

02:39:12.000 To be able to be so obsessed and so routine, like these guys, these individuals with autism have to do everything in a particular way, certain time, a little bit of OCD in there.

02:39:22.000 I think to be successful in things, you kind of have to have that little bit of personality.

02:39:26.000 Yeah, and they can make incredible progress.

02:39:28.000 And that's one of the things that a lot of those people are recruited by Silicon Valley companies.

02:39:34.000 Like, specifically recruited because they know that they can achieve, you know, some incredible, great, you know, feats of success.

02:39:43.000 I have a student at my school that probably knows UFC more than you.

02:39:47.000 Like, he's literally, it's crazy.

02:39:49.000 He knows everything.

02:39:50.000 Wow.

02:39:50.000 Every fighter, every name, where they're from, what they do, what they're, you name it, he knows it.

02:39:56.000 Wow.

02:39:56.000 Any fighter, any fighter.

02:39:58.000 You can ask him from one.

02:39:59.000 I had a guy talk to me about this once and he argued that it's potentially an evolutionary trait.

02:40:04.000 And what we're watching is the next level of human intelligence.

02:40:07.000 We're seeing it in little blips and leaps.

02:40:09.000 And a non-reliance on emotion.

02:40:12.000 And also, he believes that this is...

02:40:16.000 That, you know, human beings are interacting more with computers than ever before, and they're interacting less with people in a lot of circumstances.

02:40:23.000 And he thinks that what you're seeing is like this eventual transition between humans now and humans of the future.

02:40:31.000 Yeah.

02:40:32.000 Things have changed.

02:40:33.000 Yeah.

02:40:34.000 It's trippy.

02:40:35.000 Listen, Joe. 0.99

02:40:36.000 This is a fucking awesome podcast. 0.99

02:40:37.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

02:40:38.000 We got to get out of here because I got to go take you freezing.

02:40:40.000 Awesome. 0.99

02:40:40.000 And I got to wrap this bitch up and go home. 0.99

02:40:43.000 But thank you, brother. 1.00

02:40:44.000 Awesome, man.

02:40:44.000 I'm glad we did it.

02:40:45.000 Appreciate it, man.

02:40:46.000 I'm so happy to be here finally, man.

02:40:47.000 I'm happy we finally did it, too.

02:40:49.000 We did it.

02:40:49.000 And Glory in Los Angeles this Friday.

02:40:51.000 You can watch it on UFC Fight Pass.

02:40:53.000 Two world title fights.

02:40:54.000 Got it.

02:40:55.000 We've got Israel Adesanya, Jason Wilmess, Matt Embry, Robin Van Roosmalen, and you'll be there.

02:41:00.000 I'll be there.

02:41:01.000 And if you haven't seen kickboxing, this is your chance.

02:41:03.000 Check it out.

02:41:04.000 I guarantee you, you'll become a fan.

02:41:06.000 Or, I don't want to talk to you.

02:41:07.000 Alright, see you tomorrow.

02:41:08.000 Bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 18, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #900 - Joseph Valtellini

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