The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #908 - Leah Remini

00:00:00.000 Jamie's a wild man.

00:00:01.000 You don't understand.

00:00:01.000 And you're still getting late.

00:00:03.000 Look at him.

00:00:03.000 It's crazy.

00:00:04.000 You are?

00:00:05.000 Three, two, one.

00:00:07.000 We're live.

00:00:08.000 Gotta change subjects.

00:00:09.000 Okay.

00:00:10.000 Gotta abandon all that crazy talk we were just talking about.

00:00:13.000 It was.

00:00:13.000 I thought it was good talk.

00:00:14.000 It was definitely good talk.

00:00:15.000 Um, first of all, it's good to see you.

00:00:18.000 You too.

00:00:19.000 I haven't seen you in a long time.

00:00:20.000 You look great.

00:00:20.000 You do too.

00:00:21.000 I haven't seen you since King of Queens.

00:00:21.000 Thank you.

00:00:23.000 It's been a long time.

00:00:24.000 That's crazy.

00:00:24.000 And, um...

00:00:26.000 I found out about, you know, the whole Scientology thing. 0.68

00:00:29.000 I knew you were into it back then, but it was one of those things where I'd heard about it, and then I met you, and I'm like, oh, she's pretty fucking normal.

00:00:37.000 For a Scientologist, right.

00:00:38.000 Well, I met John Travolta once, too, and I said the same thing.

00:00:41.000 Like, she's pretty normal.

00:00:42.000 Nice guy.

00:00:43.000 Kelly Preston, she's pretty normal.

00:00:44.000 She seems normal.

00:00:45.000 Yes.

00:00:45.000 You know, I guess you get deeper, get to know them really well, and it might get a little weird.

00:00:51.000 Yeah, because the thing is, Scientologists are good people.

00:00:51.000 Yes.

00:00:55.000 They really are.

00:00:56.000 They really, as I did, believed that we were doing amazing things for the world.

00:01:02.000 So they go into it thinking, I'm helping myself and I'm helping others.

00:01:07.000 Right.

00:01:08.000 But then as you, like you said, as you get more and more, and by the way, You don't really get close to Scientologists when you're a Scientologist.

00:01:17.000 When you're a non-Scientologist, correct.

00:01:19.000 Like everything that I did and they do is for the purpose of setting a good example, being a good person, being a good friend, so to get you in.

00:01:32.000 To indoctrinate people.

00:01:33.000 There's a purpose in that.

00:01:35.000 Like I would never tell when I was in a non-Scientologist my real problems.

00:01:40.000 It would be kind of Bad for the church to ever appear human to a non-Scientologist.

00:01:47.000 It would be setting a bad example.

00:01:49.000 Like it would actually be considered like a transgression.

00:01:52.000 If I told you, Joe, you know, oh yeah, I'm fighting with my mother, I'm fighting with my husband, or I would never tell you those types of things because it would be bad PR for the church.

00:02:04.000 Wow, so that's something that you're taught.

00:02:06.000 Correct.

00:02:07.000 Now, you kind of grew up in it.

00:02:09.000 Yes.

00:02:09.000 How old were you when you...

00:02:11.000 Nine, I think, when my mother married.

00:02:12.000 So you don't even remember pre-Scientology?

00:02:14.000 A little bit.

00:02:15.000 And, you know, what I remember pre-Scientology was, you know, I had a very Catholic, Sicilian father.

00:02:22.000 Who, you know, believed in punishment, believed in not talk.

00:02:25.000 Like, did I talk to you?

00:02:27.000 I don't know why you're talking to me.

00:02:28.000 Like, that kind of guy.

00:02:30.000 Right.

00:02:30.000 Like, my dad sits at the head of the table, and then we don't talk back at all.

00:02:35.000 Or, you know, so that is kind of what I knew.

00:02:38.000 And then we were baptized as Catholics because my mother wasn't really religious.

00:02:42.000 My mother's Jewish.

00:02:44.000 She's, you know... 0.91

00:02:45.000 But she didn't have any kind of religion growing up.

00:02:48.000 My father, of course, was Catholic.

00:02:49.000 So we got baptized as Catholics, and the only time we really went to church was with our grandma.

00:02:54.000 We went to visit her in the city, and my dad on holidays.

00:03:00.000 So that's really kind of all I remember pre-Scientology.

00:03:06.000 And my mother, meaning my stepdad, he was in Scientology, and he got her in as well as us.

00:03:12.000 Like right away?

00:03:13.000 Right away, yes.

00:03:15.000 So that was like part of the deal?

00:03:16.000 Correct.

00:03:17.000 And by the way, Joe, we went from like, don't talk until you're spoken to, to, hey, we see you as spiritual beings, we want you to talk to us, we want you to communicate, like you're just, you're not children, you're spirits in a little body.

00:03:35.000 And so immediately that kind of indoctrination begins.

00:03:38.000 That you're not a child.

00:03:39.000 And so, you know, as children, you have kids, you know, they always want to be grown up.

00:03:43.000 So that really starts to work this kind of idea that you're an elitist, that your ego becomes kind of stroked as a kid, like you're very powerful, and you returned, and you came back, and you found yourself back.

00:03:58.000 You picked your mother because you knew she'd get into Scientology, and you're very strongly, and you're very strong, Nicole, to my sister.

00:04:05.000 You picked your mother. 0.86

00:04:06.000 You picked your mother for this reason to find your way back to Scientology.

00:04:10.000 Now, as a child, remember, you want to be more important than you are.

00:04:14.000 Kids are always trying to exercise their power.

00:04:16.000 So that speaks to something inside of you that, like, oh, I'm bigger than a kid.

00:04:20.000 I'm more than a kid.

00:04:21.000 I'm a spiritual being in a little body.

00:04:24.000 And so it sets up that kind of indoctrination very early on.

00:04:27.000 Did you like it because it made you, when you were young, it made you feel like, okay, now I can express myself better.

00:04:33.000 I don't feel suppressed.

00:04:35.000 Yes, exactly.

00:04:36.000 Because, you know, again, I'm going from a dad who tells me to, you know, shut the F up and talk when I talk to you and you sit in that chair and you don't have any thoughts worth listening to, to you're very much an important being.

00:04:50.000 You're a big being.

00:04:51.000 That's a word that's used a lot, those words, big beings.

00:04:54.000 You're a big being.

00:04:55.000 And so, yes, you start to feel very important.

00:04:58.000 You start to feel that you're powerful.

00:05:02.000 These are not bad things to make kids feel, but this is the way cults work.

00:05:07.000 And you don't realize that, Joe, until you're out.

00:05:10.000 You don't realize any of this was really going on because I've heard people call it a cult throughout my 30-plus years, and I was offended by it.

00:05:19.000 I was deeply offended by it.

00:05:21.000 And I couldn't even allow myself to believe that I was in a cult.

00:05:26.000 And so all these epiphanies are only happening after the fact.

00:05:30.000 Well, I was watching a scholarly documentary once on Christianity, and they were referring to it as the cult of Christianity.

00:05:37.000 And that word is the correct word, if you want to just look at it in terms of the actual literal definition of it.

00:05:46.000 But it's automatically got this negative connotation.

00:05:50.000 You say the word cult, and people think you're brainwashed, you're lost.

00:05:53.000 Right.

00:05:55.000 Because there's a natural inclination that people have to be tribal.

00:05:59.000 There's a natural inclination people have to be on a team, and we like it when we're all together.

00:06:04.000 You know, I know you're a Scientologist, I'm a Scientologist, we're together in this thing.

00:06:08.000 Everybody else doesn't get it.

00:06:09.000 And that's a good feeling, right?

00:06:11.000 Yeah, and you're taught that.

00:06:13.000 It's not even just that you think it, Joe.

00:06:15.000 You are taught that.

00:06:16.000 You are the elite of the world.

00:06:19.000 And by the way, you're going in every single day.

00:06:21.000 It's not like I'm going Easter and I'm going Christmas.

00:06:26.000 It's an everydayness.

00:06:28.000 So what did you do every day?

00:06:29.000 Like when you say you went in every day?

00:06:30.000 So I'd go do King of Queens.

00:06:32.000 And then after rehearsal, I'd have to drive to Hollywood and put in my two and a half hours a day.

00:06:37.000 Two and a half hours every day?

00:06:38.000 Yeah.

00:06:39.000 Minimum.

00:06:41.000 Minimum.

00:06:41.000 Okay, so then if I couldn't, like let's say on a tape day, I couldn't.

00:06:45.000 You know, I was there from 9 in the morning until 10 at night, as you know.

00:06:48.000 I'd have to make up the time on the weekends or I'd have to make up time on my hiatus.

00:06:52.000 So I'd be there all day and night.

00:06:55.000 So what if you went to Hawaii on vacation or something?

00:06:57.000 Very rare that Scientologists would go on vacation.

00:06:59.000 I'd have to make up the time.

00:07:01.000 I'd have to make up the time when I got back.

00:07:03.000 I'd have to put in on weekends.

00:07:04.000 Like, let's say if my schedule was, you know, 12 to 2.30 to go in, then I'd have to go in 1 to 6 or 1 to 10 or 9 to 10. So there's an everydayness of this indoctrination.

00:07:15.000 It's not only that, it's policies, right?

00:07:18.000 You're studying the policies all day and all night.

00:07:22.000 You're looking up words you don't understand.

00:07:24.000 You're being tested.

00:07:25.000 Like after you read an L. Ron Hubbard, you know, L. Ron Hubbard's policy, then you're tested.

00:07:29.000 You go into another room and they go, what is the definition of this?

00:07:32.000 What is the definition of that?

00:07:33.000 So it's almost worse.

00:07:36.000 We had a cult expert on and he said it's worse because you actually brainwash yourself.

00:07:42.000 Because you have to study the policies of the church and then you get tested on it.

00:07:46.000 And you have to look up words you don't understand.

00:07:48.000 You have to put them in sentences.

00:07:49.000 You have to write essays.

00:07:50.000 You have to do clay demonstrations.

00:07:53.000 So you're really brainwashing yourself and you're speaking all the same language. 0.68

00:07:58.000 You're all working towards one goal.

00:08:01.000 And that is very intoxicated.

00:08:03.000 It is to feel like you're saying to be tribal, to be part of something.

00:08:08.000 Imagine being part of something that you think and are told and are reading every day is the most important thing that's going to save mankind.

00:08:17.000 You are doing the work that no other group is doing.

00:08:21.000 And so you believe that.

00:08:22.000 You want to believe that.

00:08:24.000 You want to believe, I'm more than just an actress.

00:08:26.000 I'm more than just this.

00:08:28.000 I'm saving the planet.

00:08:29.000 And now all this stuff that you're doing, you're going in for two and a half hours every day, are you trying to move your way up the ranking system?

00:08:38.000 Yeah, there's a chart, right?

00:08:40.000 What does it start off at?

00:08:43.000 Well, there's like the little courses, they're called self-improvement courses, and these are the things that people like me would say, like when people would ask me about the money.

00:08:53.000 Right.

00:08:54.000 I'd say, well, there's courses for $35, $65.

00:08:57.000 You know, it's all—it's very affordable.

00:09:00.000 Like, these are the lines that we're taught to say.

00:09:03.000 It's not an outright lie.

00:09:05.000 It's omitting a lot of data, right?

00:09:08.000 Right.

00:09:09.000 Because really, the next—the follow-up to that is—but when you're really a Scientologist, it's going to cost you half a million easy or— Whatever it's going to be, but it's preset prices.

00:09:20.000 So you start on these self-improvement courses and then you get onto this actual chart called the bridge.

00:09:26.000 And the bridge is very precise.

00:09:30.000 Nobody's doing different things.

00:09:31.000 You're all working at the bottom all the way up to the top, which was OT8. That's like the most enlightened.

00:09:39.000 How many people are OT8? Not a lot anymore, because the people who were in Scientology in the 50s, 60s, and 70s who got to OT8 were like, this is some bullshit. 0.92

00:09:51.000 It wasn't what I thought it was going to be, and so a lot of them left.

00:09:54.000 At a time, I'm sure Scientology was big, because it almost spoke to the time that it was, you know, when people wanted free thinking, but also wanted to be morally on the right path, you know, not doing drugs like they were...

00:10:10.000 You know, maybe not part of that, but they kind of didn't want to be held by a certain religion, but they did still want spirituality in their life, and I think it spoke to the people of the time.

00:10:24.000 So I don't think you're going to find new Scientologists, you know.

00:10:29.000 In the world.

00:10:30.000 So do you think the internet took a big chunk out of that?

00:10:32.000 Yes, because of the information.

00:10:35.000 Information was very hard to get.

00:10:37.000 Whereas before...

00:10:38.000 Oh, yeah.

00:10:39.000 For example, let's say you were a Scientologist.

00:10:41.000 And one day I just didn't see you.

00:10:43.000 And I said, hey, what happened to Joe?

00:10:45.000 Where's Joe?

00:10:46.000 Why is he not in Scientology anymore?

00:10:47.000 Oh, they tell me whatever they want to tell me about you to discredit you.

00:10:51.000 He's an enemy to the church and here are the reasons why.

00:10:54.000 And they could say anything and they do say anything that immediately makes me not want to talk to you ever again.

00:11:01.000 And then become an enemy, really.

00:11:03.000 You're an enemy.

00:11:03.000 Once you're an enemy, I can't actually talk to you.

00:11:06.000 I can't actually talk to you.

00:11:07.000 The policy says that once you are declared, labeled a suppressive person, my association with you would then make me a suppressive person and then me an enemy.

00:11:18.000 So I can't actually talk to you.

00:11:20.000 But they can tell me whatever they want to tell me about you.

00:11:23.000 And so I couldn't actually find out, are these things true about Joe?

00:11:27.000 Okay.

00:11:27.000 But now, with the internet, with social media, it's harder and harder to tell people whatever you want to tell them about the person because the information is there.

00:11:38.000 You have to want to seek it out.

00:11:40.000 I didn't seek it out.

00:11:42.000 I didn't want to seek it out.

00:11:44.000 And when I did seek it out and I'd go to the church, they'd say, that's a lie.

00:11:48.000 That's not true.

00:11:49.000 Here's the real data.

00:11:50.000 And they have actual doctored, you know...

00:11:55.000 They actually doctor things that make you believe.

00:11:58.000 I mean, you're not going to go and take it to an analyst.

00:12:00.000 You're not going to go take it to somebody and go, is this a real document?

00:12:04.000 You tend to believe the church you're in and raised in most of your life.

00:12:09.000 Now, it had to have been...

00:12:13.000 Positive in some way for you.

00:12:14.000 Of course.

00:12:15.000 It gave you some confidence.

00:12:16.000 It gave you a true belief in yourself and that you're on the right path.

00:12:19.000 Because I had seen some interviews with you where you were talking about it when you were in it.

00:12:23.000 And you genuinely seemed to believe that it was very beneficial to you.

00:12:27.000 There's basic morals and basic tools to help you in your life.

00:12:27.000 Of course.

00:12:33.000 But remember, I wasn't educated.

00:12:35.000 Most Scientologists are not educated. 0.99

00:12:38.000 You mean as far as college education?

00:12:40.000 Any education.

00:12:41.000 I left school in the 8th grade.

00:12:41.000 Yeah.

00:12:43.000 Really?

00:12:43.000 Yeah.

00:12:44.000 Scientology does not value a traditional education.

00:12:48.000 They value your education in Scientology.

00:12:50.000 So you never went to high school?

00:12:51.000 Never.

00:12:52.000 Whoa.

00:12:52.000 How old were you?

00:12:54.000 How old were you in high school?

00:12:54.000 I don't know.

00:12:55.000 Look, I don't even know.

00:12:56.000 Eighth grade is like 13, I think, right?

00:12:58.000 So when you were 13, you just stopped going to school?

00:13:00.000 I stopped going to school, and I was doing Scientology, and I was working, like literally working, selling car insurance.

00:13:06.000 You were working at 13?

00:13:08.000 For Scientology companies.

00:13:09.000 And so was my sister. 1.00

00:13:11.000 Holy shit! 0.99

00:13:12.000 Yeah, but people ask, like, well, how come nobody did anything? 0.99

00:13:18.000 How come Child Protective Services, who's calling them?

00:13:20.000 Who's saying?

00:13:21.000 And not to mention, we're then lying, our parents are lying, saying they're getting a private education, they're getting tutored.

00:13:37.000 Right.

00:13:45.000 Me learning...

00:13:46.000 Wait, what was your original question?

00:13:48.000 Because I was answering something.

00:13:49.000 Well, I was saying that it had to be of some benefit to you.

00:13:52.000 Right, exactly.

00:13:52.000 Because it gave you confidence.

00:13:53.000 It gave me confidence because I thought I was getting...

00:13:55.000 You know, I'm looking up these big words.

00:13:56.000 I'm using a dictionary.

00:13:58.000 I'm like, you're doing more school than you could have ever imagined.

00:14:01.000 Right.

00:14:02.000 And you...

00:14:04.000 I started to feel like, oh, I'm really accomplishing something.

00:14:09.000 I'm...

00:14:10.000 So yes, there are benefits to it, but I didn't realize, because I was a kid, that the things you're talking about that were beneficial were in the real world.

00:14:19.000 I thought they were invented by L. Ron Hubbard, as most people do believe that.

00:14:24.000 So you're saying, were these things beneficial?

00:14:27.000 I would have learned these things at Sunday school.

00:14:29.000 I would have learned these things by being a good human being, being around other people.

00:14:34.000 But regardless, if I was brainwashed into believing that I was doing great things and learning great things, then that does work.

00:14:42.000 You know what I mean?

00:14:43.000 It does work.

00:14:44.000 If I say, hey, Joe, if you do these steps, you take these steps, and you really truly believe in me, you can then attribute it to Leah.

00:14:52.000 You can say, Leah's an amazing life coach. 0.90

00:14:54.000 She told me to do these things, and without her, I can't.

00:14:56.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:14:58.000 But not knowing that it was available to me in the real world, because I didn't.

00:15:02.000 I thought L. Ron Hubbard had come up with these things.

00:15:05.000 Now, when did it start to unravel for you?

00:15:08.000 Well, it wasn't just one thing.

00:15:13.000 I think people always think, what was the one?

00:15:16.000 It wasn't just one thing.

00:15:17.000 It was a slow process?

00:15:18.000 It was six years of me basically I was like begging them for these things not to be true that I was hearing about.

00:15:28.000 Like what things?

00:15:29.000 It was, for example, when I went to Tom Cruise's wedding and I saw the leader's wife wasn't there and, you know, David Miscavige, who's the head of the Church of Scientology, his wife wasn't there.

00:15:41.000 And when I asked the question and I said, where is Shelley?

00:15:45.000 Why is his assistant here?

00:15:48.000 Scattered.

00:15:48.000 People just scattered.

00:15:49.000 And then I was told I didn't have the effing rank to be asking about the leader's wife.

00:15:54.000 It wasn't that she was just an average person, that I didn't have the rank to ask about.

00:15:58.000 You didn't have the rank?

00:15:59.000 The rank.

00:16:00.000 Wow.

00:16:01.000 And so, that was the beginning, but then when I went to my friends...

00:16:08.000 Now, when you're my friend, I consider you family.

00:16:12.000 Like, I really do.

00:16:13.000 I take my friends very seriously.

00:16:15.000 And my friends of 35 years...

00:16:19.000 You're looking at my sexy nails right now?

00:16:21.000 Your what nails?

00:16:22.000 My sexy nails.

00:16:23.000 Sexy nails? 1.00

00:16:24.000 You do have very nice nails.

00:16:25.000 You didn't use the word sexy, though.

00:16:26.000 You said nice.

00:16:27.000 Well, you know, I'm different than other people when it comes to nails.

00:16:31.000 Apparently, because of the conversation.

00:16:32.000 Are they real?

00:16:32.000 Now, when you say real, what does that mean?

00:16:34.000 Are they glued on?

00:16:35.000 No, they're not glued on.

00:16:35.000 Oh, then I'm appreciating them more.

00:16:37.000 Oh, okay.

00:16:40.000 We're finding out a lot about you.

00:16:42.000 I'd like to do a whole couple hours with you talking about other things.

00:16:47.000 Do I have to hold on to cans?

00:16:49.000 You don't have to hold on to cans, but you do have to wear cologne because I'm not down with your non-cologne wearing.

00:16:53.000 Okay?

00:16:54.000 You're too cute for no cologne.

00:16:57.000 Okay, so let me get back.

00:16:58.000 What was I saying?

00:16:59.000 David Miscavige.

00:17:00.000 You didn't have the right to question him.

00:17:02.000 Yeah, but then seeing my friend's reaction to it where I said, well, you need to get involved in this.

00:17:07.000 I think there's something really off.

00:17:09.000 What did you think was going on?

00:17:11.000 Well, I didn't know what was going on.

00:17:13.000 I saw Tom have an executive role in our church, which I had a problem with.

00:17:18.000 Because remember, you learn very early on what L. Ron Hubbard says is the law.

00:17:25.000 There's no...

00:17:29.000 It's not up for interpretation.

00:17:31.000 There's no assimilation of data.

00:17:33.000 It's just what it says.

00:17:35.000 It's not what Joe thinks L. Ron Hubbard said, what Leah thinks.

00:17:39.000 It's what it says.

00:17:41.000 And that's very strict.

00:17:42.000 It's always, what does LRH say?

00:17:44.000 Read it again.

00:17:45.000 What does it say?

00:17:47.000 And it's very tough.

00:17:48.000 So I was very by-the-book person.

00:17:50.000 I'm a by-the-book person, okay?

00:17:52.000 If I have a recipe, I follow it exactly.

00:17:55.000 I don't do pinches. 1.00

00:17:56.000 I don't do that shit. 0.99

00:17:57.000 I do exactly how it says in the recipe, and then I see how it goes after that. 1.00

00:18:02.000 Scientology is about word for word, what does it say?

00:18:08.000 My understanding and the policy is there is no celebrity that should be treated any differently than any parishioner.

00:18:16.000 And I was seeing behavior and I was seeing things that wouldn't be okay, that are not okay for the average parishioner, but were being made to be okay for Tom.

00:18:27.000 And it didn't matter to me that he was Tom.

00:18:30.000 To me, I saw him as a team member in the Church of Scientology and we were working on the same thing.

00:18:37.000 I actually thought I was a better example of Scientology than he was, and I wrote reports on him, like internal reports on him, which I didn't realize were kind of getting me to be a target for the church, because I didn't realize his position in the church.

00:18:51.000 You wrote internal reports?

00:18:54.000 Yes, we're all required to write reports on each other.

00:18:56.000 Oh, Jesus Christ!

00:18:58.000 Yeah, there's a policy.

00:18:59.000 There's a policy about writing reports.

00:19:01.000 So if I... Let's say you and I are Scientologists.

00:19:04.000 Okay, you and I go out one night, right?

00:19:04.000 Okay.

00:19:06.000 Right.

00:19:06.000 Like, not like that, Joe, so don't get...

00:19:08.000 You seem uncomfortable with...

00:19:08.000 Right, I understand.

00:19:10.000 No, not at all.

00:19:11.000 You did, because you said nice, as opposed to...

00:19:14.000 Did I say that?

00:19:15.000 I don't know if I said nice.

00:19:15.000 You said nice.

00:19:16.000 Jamie, run that back. 0.92

00:19:18.000 I don't believe I did.

00:19:18.000 Did you say nice?

00:19:18.000 You said nice.

00:19:19.000 When I said...

00:19:19.000 Okay.

00:19:20.000 I think I probably said okay.

00:19:21.000 Are you looking at my sexy nails?

00:19:21.000 He said they're nice.

00:19:22.000 They are nice, yeah.

00:19:23.000 They're beautiful.

00:19:24.000 Is that better?

00:19:27.000 It's okay.

00:19:27.000 If you wore cologne, I feel like you'd have a better adjective.

00:19:29.000 Okay.

00:19:30.000 Okay.

00:19:33.000 Like, are you a fine guy?

00:19:34.000 When your wife comes out and says, how do I look, Joe, do you say fine?

00:19:37.000 No, I say you look great.

00:19:39.000 You say great?

00:19:40.000 Beautiful, lovely.

00:19:41.000 What do you want to say?

00:19:42.000 Lovely?

00:19:43.000 It's very clinical.

00:19:45.000 Depends on who it comes from.

00:19:46.000 I think different adjectives, different words have different meaning depending on what person they come from and how that person, what the intent behind it.

00:19:54.000 Don't you think?

00:19:55.000 Well, beautiful.

00:19:56.000 You look beautiful.

00:19:57.000 I don't know.

00:19:58.000 I guess, yeah.

00:19:59.000 I mean, if Angela says I look beautiful.

00:20:01.000 Let's go back to the internal reports on Tom Cruise.

00:20:03.000 So, yeah, so let's say you and I went out.

00:20:06.000 We just went out one night.

00:20:07.000 We were going out for dinner.

00:20:08.000 A group of us.

00:20:10.000 And something you didn't like.

00:20:11.000 And I saw you...

00:20:13.000 Doing something that's not, like for the book, I have to write a report on you.

00:20:17.000 Are you allowed to drink?

00:20:18.000 Not really.

00:20:19.000 Okay, what if I got lit up?

00:20:19.000 No.

00:20:21.000 I'd probably write a report and say...

00:20:23.000 Brought some shots over. 1.00

00:20:23.000 Come on, fuck it. 1.00

00:20:24.000 LRH would love it. 1.00

00:20:26.000 Let's do it to LRH. Yes, so then I write a report on you.

00:20:30.000 And I say, Joe was acting inappropriate.

00:20:32.000 He was making fun of L. Ron Hubbard because you're not allowed to joke and degrade L. Ron Hubbard.

00:20:36.000 There's a policy called jokers and degraders.

00:20:39.000 Jokers and degraders.

00:20:41.000 Yes, you and I would be very much...

00:20:43.000 Yes.

00:20:43.000 I've been...

00:20:44.000 Have you been in trouble for that?

00:20:45.000 Many times.

00:20:48.000 Okay, so I would have to write a report.

00:20:50.000 It's called Writing You Up.

00:20:51.000 I'd have to write you up because let's say you went in the next day for a session and they said, you know, they do the check.

00:20:58.000 They do a check on you every day.

00:21:01.000 Do you have an upset?

00:21:03.000 Do you have a present-time problem?

00:21:04.000 Or are you withholding anything?

00:21:07.000 Now, if you were a real Scientologist, you would know that you probably shouldn't be drinking and carrying on because there's a 24-hour rule.

00:21:15.000 You can't drink 24 hours before you're going to be doing a service.

00:21:19.000 Remember, you're required to go in every day.

00:21:22.000 So you never can drink.

00:21:24.000 And if you do, you consider it a transgression.

00:21:24.000 Right.

00:21:26.000 So that's on your mind that you're withholding this information.

00:21:31.000 Now, if you went on a vacation and you knew that you were going to make it up when you got back.

00:21:35.000 Yeah, that's okay.

00:21:36.000 Then you can have a couple of Mai Tais.

00:21:38.000 Because you're not going in.

00:21:38.000 Yeah, because you're not going in.

00:21:39.000 That's the only time then.

00:21:39.000 Okay.

00:21:40.000 Correct.

00:21:41.000 Or if you're just not getting a service.

00:21:43.000 Okay.

00:21:44.000 But you do it every day.

00:21:45.000 Correct.

00:21:46.000 So you'd go in and you'd say, okay, so I went out last night, I ordered, you know, a bunch of shots, and I made a comment about L. Ron Hubbard or whatever.

00:21:55.000 And they go, okay, great.

00:21:56.000 When was it?

00:21:57.000 Who'd you do it with?

00:21:58.000 Who was there?

00:21:58.000 They'd write down all the names.

00:22:00.000 It's also being recorded.

00:22:02.000 And they're writing everything down.

00:22:04.000 Who knew about it will be the next question.

00:22:06.000 Who knew about it?

00:22:07.000 You'd say, well, Leah was there.

00:22:08.000 They go, Leah was there.

00:22:09.000 Okay, interesting.

00:22:10.000 Then that person's going to write Leah knew about it and didn't do anything about it.

00:22:14.000 Then I'd get pulled in.

00:22:15.000 Why didn't you write a report on Joe?

00:22:17.000 Because Joe just admitted that he was drinking, carrying on, and you didn't write him up.

00:22:21.000 Do you see what I'm saying?

00:22:22.000 So it creates that kind of environment. 0.61

00:22:25.000 So it's a rat environment.

00:22:26.000 Correct.

00:22:26.000 So I was writing up Tom, and I was writing up David Miscavige.

00:22:30.000 So what did you write up Tom for?

00:22:31.000 Jumping on couches and being inappropriate.

00:22:34.000 I thought he was being inappropriate.

00:22:36.000 What was he jumping on couches for?

00:22:38.000 Well, when he did Oprah.

00:22:39.000 Oh, you wrote him up for that, for Oprah?

00:22:40.000 I also wrote up John for Battlefield Earth.

00:22:43.000 I thought it was...

00:22:44.000 For the movie itself?

00:22:46.000 First of all, that movie was awesome.

00:22:49.000 If you haven't seen Battlefield Earth, it's one of my favorite unintentional comedies.

00:22:53.000 No, it's terrible.

00:22:53.000 Don't even joke.

00:22:53.000 You're an idiot.

00:22:54.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:22:55.000 But awesome, because it's so terrible.

00:22:57.000 It's so terrible, it becomes good. 0.99

00:22:57.000 Ridiculous. 0.99

00:22:58.000 It crosses over that roadhouse. 0.99

00:23:00.000 You're right.

00:23:00.000 It does.

00:23:00.000 After a while, you're right.

00:23:02.000 It's like, what's that movie with the dancing one with Elizabeth Berkley?

00:23:02.000 It does, yes.

00:23:07.000 Oh, Showgirls. 0.98

00:23:07.000 Showgirls. 0.98

00:23:08.000 Showgirls.

00:23:08.000 That's the best one.

00:23:09.000 Yeah.

00:23:10.000 As far as a terrible movie that becomes awesome because it's so bad. 0.99

00:23:13.000 You're like, what in the fuck were they doing? 0.87

00:23:15.000 Right, and it's fantastic. 0.99

00:23:16.000 Yes, I get it.

00:23:17.000 Battlefield Earth is right up there.

00:23:19.000 Right, so I did things like that.

00:23:21.000 Not that I was a great example, nor am I a great example.

00:23:24.000 So you wrote a whole thing about him jumping up on Oprah's couch.

00:23:27.000 Yes, but I also, listen, I gave myself up.

00:23:29.000 I was writing myself up.

00:23:31.000 I was writing my mother up.

00:23:32.000 I was writing my husband up.

00:23:33.000 He jumped up on Oprah's couch because he was in love, right?

00:23:36.000 Supposedly.

00:23:36.000 You know, he jumped up, you know, I love her, I love her, I love her.

00:23:38.000 Well, that's what they told me.

00:23:39.000 They pulled me in and they said, you know, could it be that you're just not as high on a scale, like, in life? 1.00

00:23:46.000 Like, you're so—basically, they were saying, like, you're a bitch, so you can't understand—you can't understand that kind of love. 0.99

00:23:52.000 Because I was like, right, I guess because I've been married 20 years. 1.00

00:23:54.000 I don't understand jumping on a couch.

00:23:57.000 But I thought it wasn't a good example because I cared so much about my church and the work that we were doing, and I didn't want the church to be seen as a joke or one of its senior members,

00:24:12.000 which he's considered a senior Scientologist.

00:24:15.000 So you just thought it was inappropriate, it was out of line, so you felt like you had an obligation.

00:24:20.000 Right.

00:24:20.000 I mean, listen, I'm not perfect.

00:24:23.000 I mean, of course, there's many things that would be considered a bad example in my everyday.

00:24:27.000 I'm not a great example.

00:24:29.000 But at the time, I thought I was pretty pristine.

00:24:32.000 But looking at it now, you feel like it's totally innocuous.

00:24:35.000 He's just on a couch, jumping around, having a good time.

00:24:37.000 Yes, but if you knew how serious Scientology was about clearing the planet, it did not go with our intentions and our goals.

00:24:45.000 So anyway, I was writing him up, and I was writing everybody up, and I was writing everybody up at the wedding, because I thought our senior executives were, and I was like wiring them back from Italy from my hotel room.

00:24:55.000 Calling one of my closest friends who's a Scientologist.

00:24:57.000 And I'm like, and then I need you to write this.

00:24:59.000 I need you to write this verbatim.

00:25:00.000 I need you to write this verbatim.

00:25:01.000 And I need you to get this to the Watchdog Committee.

00:25:03.000 And I think I hurled the shirt.

00:25:04.000 You were frantic?

00:25:05.000 Frantic, baby.

00:25:06.000 I was frantic.

00:25:09.000 And I was heartbroken.

00:25:11.000 Because it's like seeing...

00:25:13.000 If you believe that the C organization and the people at the higher, you know, that are senior executive strata of your church are living a pristine and perfect life that you're trying to aspire to, that you're spending your day and night and money and time,

00:25:32.000 like, this is what we're trying to be, and I'm seeing not great examples of what this is now.

00:25:38.000 Like, it's seen behind the curtain.

00:25:39.000 I was like, I don't want to see this.

00:25:41.000 And I really thought I was going to save the church.

00:25:43.000 I thought my writing reports was like, I'm going to take over the church and I'm going to get it right by L. Ron Hubbard.

00:25:49.000 I really still believed in the policies of L. Ron Hubbard.

00:25:53.000 I just believed they were bending the rules for a celebrity.

00:25:56.000 And I was like, he's a celebrity. 0.99

00:25:57.000 Who gives a shit what he's doing? 0.99

00:25:59.000 Like, he's a Scientologist first and a celebrity second to me. 0.99

00:26:03.000 So that's why it's difficult. 0.99

00:26:04.000 I don't want to talk shit about another actor because we've all met asshole actors and we're not really... 0.99

00:26:10.000 Supposed to be talking about them. 0.99

00:26:11.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:26:12.000 It's just you don't hear that a lot.

00:26:14.000 You don't hear a lot of actors doing that to other actors, but for me it was just a Scientologist.

00:26:19.000 Right, so you take out these reports on him.

00:26:23.000 I write these reports.

00:26:24.000 I'm sent to Florida immediately the Mecca the hub of Scientology. 0.91

00:26:30.000 That's right for interrogations.

00:26:30.000 Clearwater.

00:26:34.000 No, and I mean like interrogations.

00:26:36.000 So you have to fly out there.

00:26:37.000 I fly out there.

00:26:39.000 I'm in a room, you know, with cameras, with my person who is armed with information, unbeknownst to me, of a stack of reports that were written on me by everybody who worked for Tom.

00:26:55.000 A stack.

00:26:56.000 Now, let me tell you something.

00:26:57.000 Because Tom found out about your report, so he decided that everyone who works for him has to take out a report on you.

00:27:03.000 I don't know what he knew, but that is that the church is very much involved with his life.

00:27:08.000 He's staffed by people who work for the church.

00:27:11.000 No non-Scientologist works for him.

00:27:14.000 But it was, if you say something bad about this person, you are talking about...

00:27:20.000 God.

00:27:21.000 And I was asked, do you have sexual intentions towards him?

00:27:24.000 What are your evil intentions towards him?

00:27:26.000 What are your evil intentions towards David Miscavige?

00:27:29.000 What are your evil intentions towards Elrond Hubbard?

00:27:31.000 And it was three months of this.

00:27:34.000 And I had to retract everything I said.

00:27:36.000 I said I made it all up.

00:27:37.000 I didn't see any of it.

00:27:38.000 Whoa.

00:27:39.000 To get out of there.

00:27:40.000 And so then when I came back to LA, they said they want to see you again here in Celebrity Center.

00:27:46.000 So I went to Celebrity Center and they said, look, everything that was done to you was wrong.

00:27:51.000 I was like, right, I know that.

00:27:53.000 We just want to let it go.

00:27:54.000 You need to let it go because the fact that you're not letting it go means that you're guilty of the crimes that you're saying.

00:28:01.000 I'm confused.

00:28:02.000 They're saying that everything was wrong that was done to you in Florida.

00:28:05.000 Why are they saying that?

00:28:07.000 Because they wanted me to come back.

00:28:08.000 Because I was kind of like, when I came back from Florida, I was kind of not really a dedicated Scientologist anymore.

00:28:14.000 But I wasn't doing anything to rock the boat with my family.

00:28:19.000 How long were you in Florida for?

00:28:20.000 Three months.

00:28:22.000 Three months of dealing with this?

00:28:24.000 Mm-hmm.

00:28:25.000 Three months?

00:28:26.000 Every day for three months?

00:28:28.000 I had to write apology letters.

00:28:29.000 90 days.

00:28:30.000 So you're there for 90 days.

00:28:32.000 All you're talking about is Tom Cruise's wedding.

00:28:33.000 It was during my hiatus. 1.00

00:28:34.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:28:36.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:28:37.000 Yeah.

00:28:38.000 That's what I'm doing most of the time.

00:28:40.000 You have a family.

00:28:42.000 You're married.

00:28:43.000 My mother was there.

00:28:44.000 My daughter was there.

00:28:45.000 My husband was there.

00:28:46.000 And how much of the day are you spending on this stuff?

00:28:49.000 All day.

00:28:49.000 All day every day.

00:28:50.000 Did you see Defending Your Life?

00:28:51.000 No.

00:28:52.000 Oh, God, you have to see it.

00:28:53.000 What is it?

00:28:54.000 It's a movie where Meryl Streep and I forgot the other guy.

00:28:57.000 Anyway, they die and they go into the holding cell, like where they're going to decide their fate.

00:29:03.000 Are they going back to Earth, which is considered hell, or are they going on to heaven?

00:29:08.000 And Meryl Streep lived a pristine life, and they review your life, right?

00:29:14.000 And they have judges and everything, right?

00:29:16.000 So they review good moments and bad moments of your life, and they decide, are you going to go on?

00:29:21.000 Are you going to go back to hell?

00:29:23.000 And Meryl Streep was, of course, pristine, but they were looking at times where he didn't stick up for himself or where he pussied out or something, right? 0.97

00:29:34.000 And so they were judging him pretty harshly, right?

00:29:37.000 They were like, you need to come back in the morning, and it was like an old day of like, we're reviewing 120 days of your life, right?

00:29:44.000 Meryl Streep, they looked at like five days, and They were like, don't worry, just come back when you can.

00:29:48.000 That was me.

00:29:49.000 Like, my mother was there to do some fluff thing, and she was like, oh, come have lunch with me.

00:29:54.000 And my person was like, be back in 10 minutes.

00:29:56.000 Go get a sandwich and eat in the elevator, and you need to be back here in 10 minutes.

00:30:00.000 For me, it was like defending your life, because my mother was just like, she didn't know what was going on. 0.84

00:30:06.000 You don't usually tell your family what you're doing.

00:30:09.000 I wouldn't tell my husband what was happening to me.

00:30:12.000 Because I didn't want to create, can you imagine this?

00:30:15.000 Did you meet your husband in Scientology?

00:30:17.000 No, my husband was out.

00:30:18.000 He was never in.

00:30:20.000 How's that possible?

00:30:21.000 But I made him a Scientologist.

00:30:22.000 Oh, you made him one.

00:30:22.000 I made him a Scientologist.

00:30:25.000 Which is good because he was still kind of cool, you know what I'm saying?

00:30:28.000 So he wasn't like, he was still kind of freaky a little bit, you know? 0.99

00:30:31.000 Still believed in slapping an ass once in a while. 0.99

00:30:35.000 So like I kind of got like the good of both worlds. 1.00

00:30:38.000 Best of both worlds? 0.99

00:30:40.000 You can't slap asses if you're in Scientology? 0.99

00:30:42.000 No, it's considered aberrated. 0.99

00:30:43.000 What about choking?

00:30:44.000 Absolutely not.

00:30:46.000 It would be, honestly, you would be considered like you really, there's something really wrong with you.

00:30:51.000 Okay.

00:30:52.000 Yeah.

00:30:53.000 Are you a slapper? 0.99

00:30:54.000 No.

00:30:54.000 Oh, I didn't think so.

00:30:56.000 You say things like, nice.

00:30:57.000 Yeah, nice.

00:31:01.000 Anyway, so you're there for 90 days.

00:31:04.000 You're there for 90 days.

00:31:04.000 Yeah.

00:31:05.000 And I'm not telling my family what I'm going through.

00:31:07.000 I'm not, because I don't want to create a bad situation for the church.

00:31:10.000 Like, how crazy is that?

00:31:11.000 Like, I'm defending the church.

00:31:12.000 So all day you're just, like, reviewing these papers.

00:31:14.000 I'm admitting my crimes.

00:31:15.000 I'm saying, maybe I do have evil and maybe I do, maybe I didn't see what I saw.

00:31:21.000 And you don't know these people, right?

00:31:22.000 These people that you're meeting with in Florida?

00:31:23.000 No, no.

00:31:24.000 They assign you a person.

00:31:26.000 But you hadn't met them previously?

00:31:27.000 No.

00:31:28.000 So it's just some person with paperwork and they're going over your...

00:31:28.000 No.

00:31:31.000 Well, they have you on the meter.

00:31:32.000 They have you on the lie detector test.

00:31:34.000 I mean, with the cans that you're talking about.

00:31:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:36.000 Yeah, the cans.

00:31:37.000 You're in a room that's locked.

00:31:39.000 And that thing doesn't do anything, right?

00:31:40.000 That e-meter? 0.98

00:31:41.000 Well, it does something.

00:31:42.000 I don't exactly...

00:31:43.000 I mean, there is an actual explanation for it in the real world.

00:31:46.000 I'm not smart enough to retell it to you.

00:31:49.000 But if I was to have a meter here and you had a thought, I could show you.

00:31:54.000 It does register that you thought something.

00:31:56.000 Right, but you can't really differentiate what those thoughts are.

00:31:59.000 No, but as someone who trains in Scientology, all you're trained to do, which what I was doing, I was training to administer Scientology to people, was learning to do that.

00:32:10.000 And I would learn to say, Joe, what was that thought?

00:32:14.000 What was that thought?

00:32:15.000 I don't know what you're thinking, but I just know that you had a thought.

00:32:17.000 Right.

00:32:18.000 And so I ask you a question, and then I look at the meter to see that it registered on the meter.

00:32:23.000 And regardless of what you want to talk about, we're only going to talk about what I see on the meter.

00:32:23.000 Right.

00:32:27.000 Right.

00:32:28.000 And then there's also, it's open to suggestion, right?

00:32:31.000 You could say, is this a moment where you had doubt?

00:32:33.000 Is this a moment where you were angry?

00:32:35.000 Yes.

00:32:35.000 And then the person has to think, wow, was it?

00:32:37.000 And then they start convincing you.

00:32:37.000 Yes.

00:32:38.000 Correct.

00:32:39.000 Well, the first thing to do is they, are you okay?

00:32:41.000 You need some of your disgusting coconut water or no? 0.75

00:32:43.000 You like that? 0.99

00:32:44.000 It's atrocious.

00:32:45.000 You loved it.

00:32:46.000 I didn't love it.

00:32:48.000 I also didn't love your coffee drink, but I'm sure they're sponsors.

00:32:51.000 I loved everything you had, Joe.

00:32:52.000 What, that?

00:32:53.000 This nitro stuff?

00:32:54.000 You didn't like that?

00:32:55.000 Horrendous.

00:32:56.000 Everything you drank is horrendous.

00:32:58.000 There's no cream in it?

00:32:58.000 There's no sugar?

00:32:59.000 No, it's great.

00:33:01.000 Wow.

00:33:01.000 It's pure.

00:33:02.000 You taste the bean.

00:33:03.000 You like pure.

00:33:04.000 I like some things pure.

00:33:07.000 So...

00:33:09.000 After this 90 days of being there, 90 days of being stuck in this...

00:33:15.000 I mean, it must be like...

00:33:17.000 But I started to believe that I was really, really, really messed up.

00:33:21.000 I would imagine, too, that they have probably a pretty grand establishment in Clearwater, right?

00:33:26.000 It's probably intimidating.

00:33:27.000 Like, that's how a lot of cults and religions like to rock it.

00:33:31.000 No.

00:33:31.000 You didn't go to a pretty big place?

00:33:33.000 It's a huge place, but if you're raised in it, you're very familiar with it.

00:33:39.000 But when you realize your position in the church takes a back seat to the leader and Tom Cruise, you realize that was scary to me.

00:33:53.000 Because it goes against everything you've been taught.

00:33:55.000 Everything I've been taught.

00:33:56.000 Everything you've been taught is that everyone is some sort of a spiritual being and everyone's equal.

00:34:01.000 Correct.

00:34:01.000 And then your whole goal as Scientologists is to act for the greater good of mankind and sort of bring as many people into this as you can because you're going to help them.

00:34:09.000 Right.

00:34:10.000 Because it wasn't ever, I'm going to get somebody in because I want to screw their lives up.

00:34:14.000 It was always, I want to get this person in because I want them to be happy.

00:34:18.000 I want them to contribute to what we're doing.

00:34:21.000 Now, is the thought process that Tom Cruise being this huge celebrity, worldwide figure, that it's very important to keep him happy?

00:34:30.000 Yes.

00:34:31.000 It is probably the main goal of Scientology, is to keep Tom in.

00:34:35.000 What an ego boost that must be for him.

00:34:37.000 Oh, you see, that is something that people say all the time to me, like, why?

00:34:43.000 Is that pot?

00:34:44.000 Where?

00:34:45.000 In that ashtray?

00:34:46.000 Uh, yeah, definitely.

00:34:47.000 Yeah.

00:34:47.000 No!

00:34:48.000 Joe, do you know that I've never smoked pot?

00:34:49.000 Oh, you should definitely try it right now.

00:34:51.000 I'm scared.

00:34:52.000 Oh, you should be.

00:34:53.000 What would happen?

00:34:53.000 Why?

00:34:54.000 Because you're going to start freaking out, thinking about all sorts of stuff.

00:34:56.000 Really?

00:34:57.000 Yeah.

00:34:59.000 And so you just keep it dirty like that, the ashtray?

00:35:01.000 What do you mean?

00:35:02.000 Why don't you make it nice?

00:35:03.000 Why don't you present it in a nice way?

00:35:04.000 Because I'm a man.

00:35:05.000 This is my man cave. 0.99

00:35:06.000 Men don't give a fuck about nice. 0.99

00:35:07.000 Really? 0.99

00:35:08.000 Yeah.

00:35:08.000 Well, actually, I shouldn't act surprised hearing what I heard before we started this.

00:35:12.000 It's good for you.

00:35:13.000 Don't try to talk over me, Joe, because you know what I'm going to say.

00:35:20.000 You've never had pot?

00:35:21.000 No.

00:35:22.000 I would suggest like a little tiny amount for you.

00:35:24.000 Okay.

00:35:25.000 Just that's it.

00:35:26.000 Because somebody said something about gummy bears to me about you.

00:35:28.000 Oh, Jesus. 1.00

00:35:29.000 Don't fuck with those gummy bears. 1.00

00:35:30.000 Why is it something bad? 1.00

00:35:31.000 Those are way too powerful for you.

00:35:32.000 Okay.

00:35:33.000 Those are horrendous.

00:35:34.000 So what happened?

00:35:35.000 Anything?

00:35:35.000 Yeah, you'll go on a journey on your life.

00:35:38.000 It'll give you extreme paranoia.

00:35:40.000 That's not fun.

00:35:42.000 It's not, but when you come out of it, it's very beneficial.

00:35:44.000 Why? 0.98

00:35:45.000 Because you realize it's all bullshit, and then you're nervous about some things that... 1.00

00:35:49.000 It just highlights your vulnerability. 1.00

00:35:51.000 Oh, I don't need that.

00:35:52.000 It takes your blinders away.

00:35:53.000 I don't need that.

00:35:54.000 That doesn't sound like fun.

00:35:56.000 Well, it's not necessarily that fun the first time.

00:35:58.000 Yeah, so you wouldn't do it again.

00:35:59.000 Or you have.

00:36:00.000 I do it all the time.

00:36:00.000 Oh, pot.

00:36:01.000 I didn't say pot.

00:36:02.000 Gummy bears, too.

00:36:02.000 The gummy bears.

00:36:03.000 I do them all the time.

00:36:04.000 So you like that feeling of being...

00:36:04.000 Really?

00:36:04.000 Yeah.

00:36:06.000 I think it's good for you.

00:36:06.000 Yeah.

00:36:08.000 I think it's good to be vulnerable.

00:36:09.000 It's good to understand...

00:36:09.000 I agree.

00:36:10.000 It is good to be vulnerable.

00:36:11.000 You're really just this finite organism floating through infinity.

00:36:15.000 But I feel that way without it.

00:36:17.000 Okay.

00:36:18.000 Well, then you don't need it.

00:36:19.000 I mean, it's not for everybody.

00:36:20.000 Oh.

00:36:21.000 Wow, I kind of wanted you to push it on me a little bit and you just gave up.

00:36:23.000 I think it benefits a lot of people.

00:36:25.000 It makes you more sensitive.

00:36:26.000 It gives you a better sense of community.

00:36:28.000 It makes you kinder.

00:36:29.000 Oh, I definitely need that then.

00:36:31.000 Okay.

00:36:31.000 Yeah.

00:36:32.000 It'll make you a more...

00:36:33.000 I think it makes you a more loving person.

00:36:37.000 I really believe that.

00:36:38.000 And I need it.

00:36:39.000 Yeah.

00:36:40.000 Okay.

00:36:40.000 Back to what you're saying.

00:36:41.000 Makes sex feel better.

00:36:41.000 Oh.

00:36:42.000 Makes food taste better.

00:36:43.000 I'm married to a Puerto Rican, so I don't need that. 1.00

00:36:45.000 Like a lot better.

00:36:48.000 That was a little shout out.

00:36:50.000 Powerful Puerto Ricans. 0.98

00:36:52.000 They do not have sex, I can tell you that. 0.96

00:36:54.000 Congratulations to all of them. 0.92

00:36:56.000 I shouldn't say they, like I've only had sex with one of them.

00:37:02.000 The celebrity, we all know there's treatment, different treatment for celebrities.

00:37:08.000 Well, especially in Scientology, right?

00:37:10.000 No, no, no.

00:37:11.000 It's highlighted.

00:37:11.000 It is like nothing you could ever imagine.

00:37:16.000 So when people say Tom doesn't leave because they have information on him or John, that's not the reason.

00:37:22.000 The amount of power they receive from this church is like nothing in Hollywood.

00:37:28.000 It is like nothing.

00:37:30.000 There is no reason for them to leave this environment.

00:37:33.000 Right.

00:37:34.000 So it's super beneficial for them to be attached to it.

00:37:36.000 Correct.

00:37:37.000 He has employees.

00:37:38.000 They work for him.

00:37:39.000 All these people take care of his every need.

00:37:41.000 Yes, and there's policy on how to talk to somebody.

00:37:46.000 Like, you wouldn't say, like if you said, go get me a coffee and I want at this temperature, there's no, I can't get it, we're five miles from any, you know, we're 30 miles, there would be none of that kind of talk.

00:38:00.000 Like, not any kind, there's policy about...

00:38:02.000 You don't talk back, like ever.

00:38:04.000 You don't step out of line.

00:38:06.000 You don't give an opinion.

00:38:07.000 You don't make a face.

00:38:08.000 You don't make a gesture.

00:38:10.000 You don't sigh.

00:38:11.000 If you step out of line in any way, you are dealt with by the church at your expense.

00:38:18.000 So Tom essentially has servants.

00:38:19.000 Correct.

00:38:21.000 How many people?

00:38:22.000 A lot.

00:38:23.000 A lot.

00:38:24.000 A lot.

00:38:24.000 And by the way, I don't begrudge somebody with a staff.

00:38:26.000 If you can have it, I go, do it all day, all night.

00:38:29.000 Do it all day, all night.

00:38:31.000 But when you believe, as a Scientologist, you are working for somebody who single-handedly is saving the planet, and you deserve that kind of punishment, That's something different, babe.

00:38:44.000 You understand?

00:38:46.000 It's an abuse that is not justified, but it is justified because you believe that you are single-handedly saving the planet.

00:38:59.000 Yeah, no, I get it.

00:38:59.000 Capiche?

00:39:00.000 I get it.

00:39:01.000 So he's the main figurehead, right?

00:39:05.000 He's the main guy, like right up with Miscavige, right?

00:39:07.000 And then John Travolta is somewhere in that?

00:39:10.000 I think John was given a designation called Cacan.

00:39:16.000 Cacant?

00:39:17.000 Cacan, not Cunt. 0.99

00:39:19.000 K-H-A-N. K-H-A-N. He's given this designation of Kakan, which there's a policy that basically says you can kill another human being. 0.97

00:39:32.000 If you are Kakan, you're going to look the other way. 0.98

00:39:35.000 And he was given that by L. Ron Hubbard.

00:39:39.000 Don't make me laugh because you're going to make me pee.

00:39:41.000 You pee when you laugh?

00:39:44.000 How did you work on a comedy all those years?

00:39:46.000 First of all, not very well.

00:39:47.000 Do you know how many takes I ruined?

00:39:49.000 Kevin goes, don't ruin this take.

00:39:52.000 I go, no, no, don't tell me what you're going to do.

00:39:53.000 And then I would ruin it. 1.00

00:39:54.000 I would ruin it, Joe, because he would do some stupid shit with his hands or something that he never rehearsed that would make me cry from laughter. 1.00

00:40:03.000 Ugh. 1.00

00:40:04.000 Yes.

00:40:04.000 And he was really highly inappropriate in moments that made me pee.

00:40:08.000 Almost pee.

00:40:09.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:40:10.000 So he's allowed to kill people. 0.99

00:40:10.000 Okay. 0.99

00:40:12.000 Yeah.

00:40:12.000 One?

00:40:13.000 I don't know.

00:40:14.000 I should look at the policy again.

00:40:16.000 I don't want to speak out of time.

00:40:17.000 But you're supposed to look the other way.

00:40:18.000 So if somebody said something wrong to John Travolta and he pulled out a samurai sword and cut their head off, you just got to clean up the body.

00:40:24.000 You just got to clean up the body.

00:40:25.000 Because it's called ethics protection.

00:40:27.000 Oh, okay.

00:40:28.000 So everyone would be responsible for dealing with it.

00:40:32.000 And he would just leave the room and he would know that you guys would take care of it.

00:40:35.000 And there's also another policy.

00:40:35.000 Correct.

00:40:37.000 And by the way, the reason why I say these policies is because I don't like when people say, Leah, I believe you.

00:40:42.000 I don't want you to believe me.

00:40:43.000 I want you to look it up.

00:40:44.000 I want you to look for yourself and make your own decisions.

00:40:47.000 So I keep quoting these policies because I want people to look it up. 0.99

00:40:51.000 So that they can say, that shit's true. 1.00

00:40:53.000 She's not talking shit. 1.00

00:40:54.000 Right. 0.99

00:40:54.000 You know what I mean? 0.99

00:40:55.000 There's another policy called ethics protection.

00:40:57.000 There's another policy called the responsibility of leaders, which he actually says exactly what you just said.

00:41:05.000 That basically, you know, what you got to do to protect a leader, you got to do it.

00:41:10.000 If you see a body, then you clean it up, and the leader should never know.

00:41:13.000 I read Going Clear by Lawrence Wright, and I watched the HBO special on it, and...

00:41:21.000 It's stunning.

00:41:23.000 Crazy accurate.

00:41:25.000 Crazy accurate.

00:41:26.000 I was blown away.

00:41:27.000 The book, especially, the book goes into great depth about how bananas L. Ron Hubbard was.

00:41:34.000 And it's so odd to me that all this information is out there.

00:41:41.000 It isn't out there, though.

00:41:43.000 Remember, you're reading Alvin Hubbard's words from Dianetics, the book one.

00:41:48.000 This is the first book that we're all required to read.

00:41:51.000 Everybody's required to read everything that he's written.

00:41:55.000 I read Dianetics, too.

00:41:56.000 I had it sent to me.

00:41:57.000 Yeah, I ordered it.

00:41:58.000 It was one of those late-night infomercial things.

00:42:00.000 When I first moved to L.A., I've always been into self-help, like Anthony Robbins.

00:42:06.000 I bought all his tapes.

00:42:08.000 I used to listen to it on a Walkman back in the day and read his books.

00:42:11.000 Yeah.

00:42:12.000 You know, so I thought it was just more of that.

00:42:14.000 And I got put on a list, and I got sent...

00:42:18.000 For years.

00:42:19.000 For years.

00:42:20.000 I'm surprised you're off of it.

00:42:21.000 I swear, I'm actually willing to make a money bet that you get mail after we talk.

00:42:27.000 Interesting.

00:42:28.000 Well, I went to one of those things where you sit down and you get an e-meter and you hold the thing and the guy asks you questions.

00:42:28.000 Yeah.

00:42:34.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:34.000 I was in San Diego and I was filming something.

00:42:36.000 Oh, so you saw the...

00:42:38.000 So they did a demonstration.

00:42:39.000 Did you see it read on the meter?

00:42:41.000 Like a thought?

00:42:42.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:42.000 Or did you do the pinch test?

00:42:43.000 Well, no, I don't remember a pinch test, but I do remember holding on to these things and he would ask me some questions, but the guy was very uninterested or disinterested.

00:42:52.000 He just seemed like he was kind of like being forced to do it.

00:42:55.000 That's what it seemed like to me.

00:42:56.000 He was just going through the motions.

00:42:58.000 He seemed super bored.

00:42:59.000 Oh.

00:43:00.000 Yeah.

00:43:00.000 So I wonder, had he not been super bored, would you be full on right now?

00:43:04.000 No, no, no.

00:43:05.000 I was doing it as a goof.

00:43:06.000 It was only like 10 years ago.

00:43:08.000 Oh, okay. 0.75

00:43:08.000 I thought it was ridiculous. 0.75

00:43:09.000 I was in San Diego filming something, and they had this setup out there.

00:43:09.000 Okay.

00:43:13.000 And I'm like, ooh, let me go in there.

00:43:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:43:15.000 Right.

00:43:15.000 And I was just, you know, hoping I could weasel in and have a seat and know who I am and put on the cans.

00:43:20.000 Did they know?

00:43:21.000 No, I don't think so.

00:43:21.000 No.

00:43:22.000 The guy didn't give a fuck. 0.99

00:43:24.000 It's interesting. 0.98

00:43:25.000 Usually they're very, you know, welcoming and loving because they, remember, they do believe in what they're doing.

00:43:32.000 I did.

00:43:33.000 Right.

00:43:34.000 But anyway, what I was saying to you is the Dianetics and Dianetics.

00:43:38.000 L. Ron Hubbard is writing that he's a scientist, that he's a decorated war hero, that he was college educated.

00:43:48.000 And so you're saying the information's out there.

00:43:51.000 What information other than what we're reading is out there?

00:43:55.000 Well, I mean now, like Lawrence Wright's book.

00:43:57.000 But no Scientologist is allowed to read Lawrence Wright's book.

00:44:02.000 Hmm.

00:44:02.000 Just not allowed to.

00:44:03.000 So they did an excellent job of insulating people.

00:44:06.000 Look, if you and I were like friends' friends, right?

00:44:10.000 And you had concern for me in Scientology.

00:44:13.000 And you came to me and you said, Leah, I really, I'm scared for you.

00:44:16.000 You know, I read Going Clear and I want to know that you're okay.

00:44:19.000 And you and Angela...

00:44:20.000 I don't know if this is a good thing for your daughter.

00:44:23.000 I would say, Joe, you know me.

00:44:25.000 I'm a good person.

00:44:26.000 I've been there for you.

00:44:28.000 Come on.

00:44:29.000 I don't do draw.

00:44:30.000 I don't steal.

00:44:33.000 Just respect the fact that this is something I believe is helping me.

00:44:37.000 Why would you ask me to look at something that's anti-my church or anti-what I'm doing?

00:44:42.000 That's how you would approach it.

00:44:43.000 And you would accept it, Joe.

00:44:44.000 You'd be like, she's right.

00:44:45.000 It is messed up of me to be telling her these things when she is a good person.

00:44:50.000 And her and Angela are great.

00:44:51.000 You wouldn't push it.

00:44:54.000 You wouldn't push it.

00:44:55.000 You would respect me enough because you would know me enough to go, I don't want to do that to her.

00:45:00.000 It's disrespectful.

00:45:00.000 It's wrong.

00:45:01.000 So you feel like that happens pretty much across the board.

00:45:04.000 Anybody who's outside, who reads those things.

00:45:07.000 Yes, well that's what you're trained to do.

00:45:09.000 So you're working constantly with people that are not in the church, right?

00:45:13.000 You're on sets, you're doing TV shows.

00:45:15.000 How many people are going to come up to you and say, hey, I think you're in a cult?

00:45:18.000 Well, in your position, very few, right?

00:45:20.000 Because you were one of the stars of the show, and everybody's kind of behind you.

00:45:24.000 Who would do that to Tom Cruise?

00:45:24.000 Very few, right?

00:45:25.000 Very few.

00:45:26.000 None.

00:45:27.000 None?

00:45:27.000 Yeah.

00:45:28.000 So when he's on a set, is it all, like he's doing Mission Impossible or something like that.

00:45:28.000 None.

00:45:33.000 Is it all Scientology employees that are constantly surrounding him?

00:45:36.000 So he's got like this wall of insulation.

00:45:36.000 Yes.

00:45:38.000 Correct.

00:45:39.000 And it's all Scientology people.

00:45:40.000 Correct.

00:45:41.000 But the director, the writer, they don't have to be Scientologists, do they?

00:45:44.000 Not at all.

00:45:45.000 No.

00:45:45.000 But they're not invading Tom's space.

00:45:48.000 They're not going to be disrespectful to their lead actor.

00:45:51.000 They're not going to go up to Tom and go, hey, Tom, we don't know about our affiliation with you and what you're doing in the Scientology thing.

00:45:59.000 They're not going to rock the boat.

00:46:01.000 They hired him as an actor.

00:46:03.000 Right.

00:46:03.000 And because of...

00:46:05.000 The way Tom Cruise is, I don't know him obviously, but what I get out of him is he's a super focused, very turned on, intense guy, and it probably benefits him having all these servants take care of all his every needs so he could focus directly on his thing and just go for it.

00:46:22.000 So for him, it's probably 100% beneficial to be involved.

00:46:25.000 Correct.

00:46:26.000 Because it is a world that's tailor-made to him.

00:46:29.000 That's so strange.

00:46:30.000 And that is Scientology.

00:46:34.000 What a rare position.

00:46:35.000 Yes, it is.

00:46:36.000 For any human to ever find themselves in without being the conqueror of a country or something like that.

00:46:41.000 Correct.

00:46:42.000 I mean, again, I want to make the distinction between, you know, listen, when you gain some success in this business, thank God, you're able to surround yourself with an assistant and people to help you to make your life easier so you can focus on your work.

00:46:57.000 But this is something totally different, because behind closed doors, you are acting and being a different way, and you know it.

00:47:06.000 I know it, he knows it, and anybody in Scientology knows it.

00:47:09.000 And how is he different?

00:47:11.000 It is about the mission of Scientology, so anything is justified.

00:47:15.000 So behind closed doors, though, how is he different?

00:47:18.000 It is nothing out of line, nothing that would upset him.

00:47:28.000 You have to act and be a certain way around him.

00:47:33.000 You just can't step out of line, out of the bounds of the policies of the church.

00:47:38.000 Or you will be dealt with, and you will be dealt with swiftly within your church.

00:47:42.000 And that seems to be quite abusive to me.

00:47:47.000 I was punished for basically following my own policy of my church, defending my church.

00:47:54.000 And I can't be friends with somebody who...

00:47:57.000 You can't be around that.

00:47:58.000 You can't be around that, and you've been getting punished by your church because of it.

00:48:02.000 But again, that wasn't really even the reason why I left.

00:48:05.000 I mean, I was dealing with that.

00:48:07.000 I was dealing with being interrogated at my expense.

00:48:10.000 We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars.

00:48:12.000 You've given them millions of dollars.

00:48:14.000 Yes, millions.

00:48:14.000 Millions.

00:48:15.000 That's insane.

00:48:16.000 And now they're turning around.

00:48:18.000 You know, they have these hate websites they create on everybody within minutes.

00:48:22.000 Yeah, I saw yours.

00:48:23.000 It's adorable.

00:48:24.000 Isn't it great?

00:48:25.000 Yeah.

00:48:26.000 They can't really say anything.

00:48:28.000 You didn't do anything.

00:48:29.000 They can say a lot.

00:48:29.000 Listen, I've read what they said.

00:48:31.000 I said it in my book, okay?

00:48:32.000 Yeah, all those things, okay?

00:48:34.000 Even if you catch me, you know, in a situation or my husband, it wouldn't change anything about what I'm saying. 0.51

00:48:41.000 It wouldn't change a damn thing.

00:48:43.000 It doesn't matter.

00:48:44.000 Their intention is to try to...

00:48:47.000 You know, my husband sometimes sings in a salsa club.

00:48:49.000 You don't think they're going to catch him with a girl somewhere dancing innocently.

00:48:53.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:48:54.000 Yes, you can do all those things.

00:48:54.000 It's...

00:48:56.000 You can hire PIs to follow us. 0.60

00:48:58.000 You can get us in situations.

00:49:00.000 But does that change anything?

00:49:02.000 And it doesn't matter.

00:49:02.000 They're trying to discredit you.

00:49:04.000 It doesn't matter because what you're saying is truth.

00:49:05.000 Exactly.

00:49:06.000 And it's not just me.

00:49:07.000 I'm not saying it.

00:49:08.000 The other thing that bothers me is that it's become my crusade.

00:49:12.000 It's not my crusade.

00:49:13.000 It's my responsibility.

00:49:16.000 And I feel other people need to step up and take some responsibility.

00:49:21.000 I don't want to be the only one saying it.

00:49:25.000 I don't want to be other people, other actors, other officials, the media.

00:49:32.000 They need to not make it about me. 0.70

00:49:34.000 Get some balls and say what you really think. 0.89

00:49:36.000 Like I was on 2020, right, with Dan Harris. 0.66

00:49:38.000 And it's the parent company to A&E. And I did the show for somebody else, and Dan Harris, I said, what do you think of that?

00:49:48.000 Like, what do you think of it, Dan?

00:49:49.000 And he said, I have to be impartial.

00:49:51.000 And I said, would you be impartial about abuse?

00:49:55.000 Are you impartial about this?

00:49:56.000 And I named a few things, and he went, well, no. 1.00

00:49:59.000 And I said, right, okay, you're being an asshole. 1.00

00:50:02.000 And, you know, the truth of the matter is, I do think that of this industry. 1.00

00:50:07.000 I think this is like a ball-less industry. 0.90

00:50:09.000 And there's people who have some balls, like you, like Adam Carolla.

00:50:14.000 You know, there's a few people who are in the public eye. 0.83

00:50:19.000 Sorry about that. 0.92

00:50:20.000 Who are in the public eye that have had the balls to have an opinion. 0.96

00:50:23.000 Don't make it about me. 0.99

00:50:25.000 These things are screwed up.

00:50:27.000 These people's lives are being hurt and damaged, and you're defrauding people out of millions of dollars by your abusive policies.

00:50:36.000 You make things confidential.

00:50:38.000 Then you say these policies don't exist.

00:50:40.000 Why don't you say they exist?

00:50:42.000 You can Google them and see that they exist.

00:50:45.000 Well, in their defense, what you are is a magnet point because you are a famous person.

00:50:51.000 And so it makes it much easier to concentrate on the whole situation through you.

00:50:58.000 Right.

00:50:58.000 You know, and because of the fact that you're a famous person, because of the fact that you lived...

00:51:03.000 Most of your life in the church, it makes it very convenient to go through you.

00:51:08.000 I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing what they're doing in that way.

00:51:10.000 No, no, no, but Joe, here's what I'm saying.

00:51:11.000 If I say disconnection is a policy, right?

00:51:14.000 And then the next headline is Leah Remini alleges that disconnection...

00:51:20.000 I'm not alleging anything.

00:51:21.000 Look it up!

00:51:22.000 Right.

00:51:23.000 I see what you're saying.

00:51:24.000 Right.

00:51:24.000 Look it up!

00:51:25.000 Don't say that I'm saying it.

00:51:26.000 They're protecting themselves legally, probably.

00:51:28.000 Why?

00:51:29.000 It's available for anyone to see.

00:51:31.000 Well, because they probably don't want to get sued.

00:51:33.000 But why would they get sued?

00:51:34.000 It's in their policies.

00:51:37.000 That's a good question.

00:51:38.000 Maybe they would say that they were misinterpreting it.

00:51:41.000 Misinterpreting it says disconnection and suppressives.

00:51:44.000 And it says exactly when the church labels a suppressive person that your only option is to disconnect.

00:51:51.000 So you have children disconnecting from their own mothers and fathers.

00:51:55.000 That was one of the most disturbing aspects of your show.

00:51:58.000 To see the damage that caused and see how devastated these parents were and family members were.

00:51:58.000 Right.

00:52:04.000 That's horrible.

00:52:05.000 That's really horrible to watch.

00:52:07.000 And you know what people say?

00:52:07.000 You knew the policy existed, right?

00:52:10.000 When you were in Scientology.

00:52:11.000 Right.

00:52:12.000 So why are you guys so surprised?

00:52:13.000 We were taught a suppressive person is like... 0.57

00:52:16.000 An evil person.

00:52:17.000 An evil with horns. 0.90

00:52:19.000 Right. 0.90

00:52:19.000 Like Hitler. 0.90

00:52:20.000 You're not thinking it's my mother.

00:52:20.000 Right.

00:52:22.000 Right.

00:52:23.000 My daughter.

00:52:24.000 But when you get pulled in for something like this, which is what they did in the end, they tried to get me to disconnect from my stepfather, then they tried to get my stepfather to disconnect from my mother, and so they did this whole thing.

00:52:36.000 Your stepfather who brought you in the first place?

00:52:38.000 No, no, no.

00:52:38.000 This is another guy.

00:52:39.000 Another guy?

00:52:40.000 My mother's busy, yes.

00:52:41.000 Yeah.

00:52:41.000 She's getting crazy.

00:52:42.000 Yeah, she's a naughty naughty. 1.00

00:52:44.000 But she's been married to George, her husband, for 30 years.

00:52:50.000 So, yeah, no, the other guy ended up leaving us there.

00:52:54.000 He got us into Scientology.

00:52:56.000 And he took off.

00:52:57.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:52:59.000 So talk me through your return. 0.95

00:53:02.000 So you go to Florida, you spend three fucking months getting grilled every day, putting the pressure on you, and that's been a proven tactic of interrogations that it's always questioned by people. 0.76

00:53:17.000 People that really look at the ethical implications of interrogation. 0.96

00:53:22.000 The problem is when you put so much intention on someone about a certain thing, it makes them so uncomfortable that it changes their perception of things to the point where they're willing to admit a lot of things that may or may not be true just to get the interrogation over.

00:53:36.000 Well, that's what I did.

00:53:37.000 Yeah, I just said, okay, I'm sorry.

00:53:37.000 Yeah.

00:53:39.000 So you come back.

00:53:40.000 I come back.

00:53:41.000 I kind of like take a little bit of a hiatus from Scientology, but I'm not creating ways.

00:53:46.000 When you say take a hiatus, you're not doing the daily thing anymore.

00:53:49.000 I'm just not going in all the time.

00:53:50.000 How often are you going in then?

00:53:53.000 Maybe like once every month.

00:53:55.000 Once a month instead of every day.

00:53:56.000 That's a big deal.

00:53:57.000 It was a big deal.

00:53:58.000 Then they got me back.

00:53:59.000 Then they have a big meeting with me, and they go, we want you to come back.

00:54:02.000 We know you're upset.

00:54:04.000 Like, that whole thing was just screwed up.

00:54:06.000 And I wanted specifics.

00:54:06.000 Let's just come back.

00:54:08.000 What was messed up?

00:54:09.000 I want you to tell me in writing, and then you should also refund all my money that I spent having to do this.

00:54:16.000 Then they showed me a policy that there are no refunds, and if I ask for a refund, then I'm going to get declared a suppressive person and labeled an enemy.

00:54:25.000 So the money that you spent going to Florida and spending three months down there, that's what you wanted to refund?

00:54:30.000 Correct.

00:54:30.000 Not the millions that you gave them over the years?

00:54:32.000 No, no, because listen, in their defense, I don't think it's right to get your money back on something that you feel you've received, right?

00:54:39.000 A service you've received.

00:54:41.000 Right.

00:54:41.000 The problem that I have is Scientology is a pay-before-you-go proposition.

00:54:45.000 There are, if not tens of thousands of people who have money sitting on account that they can't get.

00:54:52.000 Because they have a refund policy.

00:54:54.000 I can't just call the church right now and say I want a refund because they're not allowed to talk to me.

00:55:00.000 So it's a catch-22.

00:55:01.000 So your only person that you can talk to in the church is the person who deals with refunds, but they can't talk to you because you're declared an enemy to the church.

00:55:09.000 So they're holding...

00:55:12.000 Millions and millions of dollars of people's money that they can't get back because no lawyer is going to take on the Church of Scientology for free.

00:55:20.000 But you're talking the average guy who has $50,000, $100,000 on account he or she is never going to see again.

00:55:27.000 So you come back.

00:55:28.000 You get to them.

00:55:31.000 They have this meeting with you.

00:55:32.000 You say that you want to get your money back.

00:55:34.000 They won't give you your money back.

00:55:35.000 And then how does it go from there?

00:55:36.000 They said, you know, you're going to be interrogated because you're now acting as an enemy to the church.

00:55:43.000 Because you were asking for your money back.

00:55:44.000 Correct.

00:55:45.000 That's a bad sign.

00:55:47.000 Then I said, okay, now it just kind of opened up a little bit of a wound.

00:55:51.000 Then I started saying, where's Shelley? 0.97

00:55:53.000 Okay, now I want to answer where Shelley is, because I had been writing her.

00:55:56.000 Shelly Miscavige? 1.00

00:55:57.000 Correct, the leader's wife.

00:55:59.000 And I said, it's going to get bad for you guys because now I started going on the internet and I started seeing stories of senior executives getting beaten in the church, like Debbie Cook and Mike Rinder and Tom DeVock.

00:56:13.000 And I was seeing all these names.

00:56:14.000 They got beaten?

00:56:15.000 They were actually beaten, physically beaten.

00:56:18.000 For what reason?

00:56:19.000 For looking the wrong way at David Miscavige.

00:56:23.000 For sighing.

00:56:24.000 For sighing?

00:56:25.000 For rolling their eyes.

00:56:27.000 For being tired.

00:56:29.000 For yawning.

00:56:31.000 Like yawning in front of them or something?

00:56:32.000 Yes.

00:56:33.000 So someone beats you.

00:56:35.000 Right.

00:56:35.000 Or he has somebody beat you.

00:56:38.000 And Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun were part of that, right?

00:56:43.000 Were part of that senior executive strata that was up in Riverside County where they have a place called Gold...

00:56:49.000 Gold Base.

00:56:50.000 And that's where these incidents were allegedly taking place.

00:56:56.000 So I started Googling it, and I started going into the church and saying, I'm Googling this information, and I want to know why these people are saying the same thing.

00:57:05.000 Their stories are over and over again.

00:57:07.000 And then I'm seeing stories of families being declared suppressive people, their OTAs.

00:57:13.000 You know, they're high up in the church, and their families are being forced.

00:57:16.000 And then you're presented with This is a lie.

00:57:21.000 Look, Mike Rinder admitted that he beat people.

00:57:25.000 But that's the difference.

00:57:27.000 They're admitting it.

00:57:28.000 They're admitting that they did this under David Mastavage's direction.

00:57:33.000 You're saying that they're lying.

00:57:36.000 But they're not lying about they're doing it?

00:57:39.000 But they're lying about having received it?

00:57:41.000 Does that make sense to you?

00:57:44.000 Over and over again, these stories kept coming up.

00:57:47.000 And when I would ask a question, they would put me in a room and go, what are your crimes?

00:57:51.000 Who are you talking to?

00:57:52.000 Why are you talking to enemies of your church?

00:57:55.000 And my questions were never answered.

00:57:57.000 And I said, does this church ever do anything wrong?

00:58:00.000 Does this church ever do anything wrong? 1.00

00:58:02.000 Is everybody an evil asshole once they leave? 1.00

00:58:06.000 Is that what you're telling me? 1.00

00:58:07.000 So what would happen if you said that my mother was?

00:58:10.000 Then I just got to believe you, that my mother is an evil person, and all these horrible things you're saying about my mother, I'm supposed to believe you?

00:58:18.000 And the answer was, don't believe me, believe Elroy.

00:58:21.000 What does Elroy say?

00:58:23.000 And then they have the policy out.

00:58:25.000 What does Elroy say?

00:58:26.000 Read this.

00:58:27.000 Read this aloud.

00:58:28.000 What don't you understand?

00:58:29.000 What does this word mean?

00:58:30.000 What does that word mean?

00:58:31.000 Go look this up.

00:58:32.000 You have a misunderstood word here.

00:58:34.000 If you don't understand that anybody who attacks your church is a criminal, This is the kind of thing you go through.

00:58:41.000 Right.

00:58:42.000 So this is what you're going through when you came back to L.A., when you slowly started separating.

00:58:46.000 Yes.

00:58:46.000 Did they ever give you one of those big gold medals like Tom Cruise got?

00:58:49.000 I never got one.

00:58:51.000 But I did get a huge award for donating another million to the church.

00:58:56.000 And it's so crazy to me that everybody who leaves is somebody who has an axe to grind, apostate, a bigot, because I've been called a bigot, because they go to the one place they can go to, which is don't Don't disrespect my religious beliefs.

00:59:13.000 Right.

00:59:14.000 And then they can call you a bigot.

00:59:15.000 I'm for religious freedom.

00:59:17.000 I'm for the First Amendment.

00:59:18.000 That's what they're hiding behind. 1.00

00:59:19.000 And I'm calling bullshit to every celebrity who says that shit. 1.00

00:59:24.000 Because they know what they're doing. 1.00

00:59:25.000 I did it too, Joe.

00:59:27.000 So I know what they're doing.

00:59:29.000 Right.

00:59:30.000 And they know that I know, which is even sicker. 0.98

00:59:33.000 You're a terrible person to have against you on this. 0.86

00:59:36.000 Why?

00:59:36.000 Because you're so fiery, and you enjoy this combat.

00:59:41.000 There's a part of you that enjoys it, clearly.

00:59:43.000 Yeah, that's what I thought about this when the whole thing first started going down.

00:59:43.000 Really?

00:59:46.000 I was like, oh, she's a terrible person to leave the church, because she's going to talk shit to the end of time. 1.00

00:59:52.000 No, but Joe, here's the thing. 0.99

00:59:53.000 I don't mean it in a bad way.

00:59:54.000 Listen, Joe, if you told me tomorrow, and I'm really just getting to know you today, I mean, I've known you, but we don't know each other, right?

01:00:02.000 Right.

01:00:03.000 I kind of like you.

01:00:04.000 Like, you're cool.

01:00:05.000 Thank you.

01:00:06.000 I like you too.

01:00:07.000 And you smile with your eyes, which is a thing that I loved about Kevin.

01:00:09.000 Like, that was one thing I used to say about Kevin.

01:00:11.000 Like, there's like a smile, like behind their eyes, like there's a smile.

01:00:14.000 I always find that to be kind. 0.99

01:00:16.000 Now, you could be a total dick, and I don't know about it, because I don't listen to podcasts. 1.00

01:00:20.000 Okay, but are you a dick? 1.00

01:00:22.000 No. 1.00

01:00:22.000 Okay, good. 1.00

01:00:23.000 Because if I hear, like when I leave here, you're a total dick! 1.00

01:00:26.000 He's a fuck! 1.00

01:00:26.000 You know, okay. 1.00

01:00:27.000 You probably hear that from one person or two.

01:00:29.000 Okay.

01:00:30.000 Just because you said it.

01:00:31.000 Okay, but here's the thing.

01:00:32.000 If you call me tomorrow and said, I'm having a problem with my neighbor because he said I'm encroaching on his property and my kid's swing set is encro...

01:00:44.000 I would find every resource I could to help you.

01:00:50.000 That is who I am.

01:00:52.000 Not that I'm Mother Teresa.

01:00:54.000 I will get upset if I see anything on the street. 1.00

01:00:57.000 I get involved in shit. 0.99

01:00:58.000 I've always been involved in other people's business. 1.00

01:01:01.000 Okay, always.

01:01:03.000 If I can see into your house, I will spy on you. 1.00

01:01:05.000 I will do shit. 1.00

01:01:07.000 If I go into your house, I'm looking in your drawers. 1.00

01:01:09.000 I'm in your shit. 1.00

01:01:10.000 I'm in people's business all the time. 1.00

01:01:12.000 And if I'm in a restaurant, I tell Angela, don't speak to me because I want to hear what's going on next to me.

01:01:17.000 And I figure everything out.

01:01:18.000 But if I see people being bullied, if I see people being unjustly hurt, yes, I have always said that.

01:01:28.000 And people who know me know that's true.

01:01:30.000 Yeah, well, so this David Miscavige wife situation, did that get resolved?

01:01:36.000 No.

01:01:37.000 I filed a missing persons report with the LAPD, and then I found some pictures of the guy who was in charge of my case speaking at a Scientology event on human trafficking.

01:01:49.000 Lieutenant Dawson at the LAPD. The police officer?

01:01:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:01:53.000 That was in charge of the case.

01:01:54.000 He was being paid to speak at the Celebrity Center at a human trafficking event at Celebrity Center, Scientology.

01:02:00.000 That seems like a massive conflict of interest.

01:02:02.000 You think?

01:02:03.000 Okay, so then, so then, that's funny.

01:02:06.000 So then, after that, I called the Dawson, Lieutenant Dawson, and I said, so what's the deal?

01:02:13.000 Because I had given a letter With the police report that said it was to Shelly if they found her.

01:02:21.000 Shelly, go with this man now.

01:02:22.000 I'm going to take care of you.

01:02:24.000 I'll take care of your legal fees.

01:02:25.000 What's going on there is wrong.

01:02:27.000 You have no idea.

01:02:28.000 Because let me tell you something.

01:02:28.000 They have no telephone.

01:02:30.000 They have no mail in or out.

01:02:31.000 They are not allowed to leave the base.

01:02:33.000 If they leave that base up at Riverside County, they are accompanied by security or handler.

01:02:38.000 So you think she's a prisoner?

01:02:41.000 If she's alive and well, the second best case scenario would be yes, that she's being held prisoner, if not by her own mind.

01:02:51.000 If she's alive and well.

01:02:53.000 Right.

01:02:53.000 So didn't she release some sort of a statement or someone released some sort of a statement?

01:02:58.000 Someone did.

01:02:58.000 I don't know who it was from.

01:03:00.000 To respond to your accusations, right?

01:03:03.000 Right.

01:03:03.000 They said that they had made contact with her and she didn't want to be found.

01:03:09.000 I said, did you see her or was somebody speaking on her behalf?

01:03:15.000 You ready for the answer?

01:03:16.000 That's classified.

01:03:18.000 This is what the police said.

01:03:19.000 And I said, are you sick? 0.89

01:03:20.000 I said, sir, sir, are you sick? 0.52

01:03:21.000 There's something wrong with you?

01:03:22.000 Am I doing something wrong?

01:03:24.000 I filed the report.

01:03:25.000 You know that, right?

01:03:26.000 Like, you know that I filed the report?

01:03:28.000 I thought maybe he was confused and he thought he was talking to my cousin.

01:03:32.000 I said, no, like, I filed the report.

01:03:34.000 Of course you're going to give me the information.

01:03:36.000 I need to know if you saw her or the officers that you sent there saw her.

01:03:40.000 Did anybody give her my note?

01:03:42.000 If Was she okay?

01:03:45.000 Did you take her off the base?

01:03:47.000 Did you say you wanted to speak to her alone?

01:03:49.000 He said, I can't give you any of that information.

01:03:51.000 Could you imagine?

01:03:52.000 Then I had to spend more money, Joe, because this is not free.

01:03:56.000 I had to spend more money on a lawyer to do a follow-up on the Public Information Act.

01:04:02.000 I asked specific questions.

01:04:04.000 Who did you see?

01:04:05.000 Did you see her?

01:04:07.000 Was she alone?

01:04:08.000 Where did you see her?

01:04:09.000 What did she look like?

01:04:10.000 They didn't give me the information.

01:04:11.000 They go, yeah, you can get that information.

01:04:13.000 You paid two more dollars.

01:04:14.000 Okay, we paid the two more dollars.

01:04:16.000 And then the thousands of dollars it cost me to get a lawyer to draft up the letter.

01:04:21.000 So it's still ongoing.

01:04:22.000 I still don't have answers.

01:04:23.000 So she just sort of vanished.

01:04:26.000 She stopped going to events.

01:04:28.000 Right.

01:04:28.000 And by the way, her official title is called COB communicator, chairman of the board communicator.

01:04:36.000 She is by his side 24 hours a day.

01:04:41.000 So imagine going from seeing somebody as a permanent, like, it's not like, oh, sometimes your assistant works, sometimes...

01:04:47.000 This is a person who worked around the clock for him and was his wife.

01:04:51.000 What do you think happened?

01:04:52.000 I don't know, which is why I filed the report.

01:04:55.000 Have you heard anything?

01:04:56.000 No.

01:04:57.000 So no one who used to be a part of the church has contacted you?

01:05:01.000 There would be no...

01:05:02.000 Okay, anybody who would...

01:05:04.000 Anybody who I would need to talk to me is up behind gates in Riverside County at this gold base. 1.00

01:05:14.000 Anybody that I would need to come out and talk to me and give me information, the FBI information, would be behind those gates.

01:05:22.000 Where are they getting money from now?

01:05:24.000 Who?

01:05:24.000 The Scientologists.

01:05:25.000 Because it seems like...

01:05:27.000 Well, you have people like Nancy Cartwright who give $10 million, $20 million.

01:05:32.000 You have some whales in Scientology.

01:05:35.000 You have Greta Van Susteren and her husband.

01:05:38.000 Greta Van Susteren?

01:05:39.000 Oh, big time.

01:05:40.000 Really?

01:05:41.000 It's on her Wikipedia page.

01:05:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:05:43.000 She's a Scientologist.

01:05:46.000 Yes, and her husband, too.

01:05:48.000 But it seems like they have a giant staff.

01:05:51.000 They have a lot of people working there.

01:05:53.000 Those people work for free, baby.

01:05:54.000 Those people sign billion-year contracts, and they get paid $15 a week.

01:05:58.000 No, I'm not kidding.

01:05:59.000 I'm not being funny.

01:06:00.000 Billion-year contracts.

01:06:00.000 I'm not being funny.

01:06:01.000 No, I know you.

01:06:02.000 And they get paid $15 a week, and they work...

01:06:02.000 Oh, okay.

01:06:06.000 From the moment they get up to midnight, they work astronomical hours.

01:06:10.000 These are called Sea Org members.

01:06:12.000 I'm not talking about average Scientologists.

01:06:14.000 And explain to me the Sea Org, because was that established when L. Ron Hubbard was evading taxes?

01:06:20.000 Yes, and he was on a ship, yes, and he created the ship.

01:06:23.000 Called the free winds and whatever ship that that's not called the free winds and it is called the free winds now, but that's where they deliver the highest level of of Scientology there OTA so when you get to OTA you gotta dig out of the free winds, but before that I don't know the name of his boats, but I think it was called the Apollo That was a part of Going Clear that was hilarious when...

01:06:43.000 Who was it?

01:06:44.000 One of the writers or one of the...

01:06:46.000 Paul Haggis?

01:06:47.000 Yes. 1.00

01:06:47.000 When he received the highest level shit. 1.00

01:06:51.000 That wasn't even the highest level, John. 1.00

01:06:52.000 That was OT3. Really?

01:06:54.000 Yeah.

01:06:54.000 And when I read it, I literally...

01:06:57.000 You have to go into a secure room.

01:07:00.000 Talk us through that.

01:07:01.000 What is that like?

01:07:02.000 First of all, you have to get invited.

01:07:03.000 You have to get an invitation.

01:07:05.000 So you'd been in Scientology for years.

01:07:06.000 You'd spent a ton of money already. 0.98

01:07:08.000 And you're like, God damn it, this is it. 0.97

01:07:10.000 By the way, most Scientologists don't even get to this. 0.99

01:07:12.000 Most.

01:07:13.000 Most don't.

01:07:14.000 Right.

01:07:14.000 Because you have to be wealthy to get to this.

01:07:16.000 Not only do you have to be wealthy, but a lot of times what they do, the new scam is you get to a level and then they go, oh, we messed that up.

01:07:22.000 You have to go back down at your expense.

01:07:25.000 You have to redo that part.

01:07:25.000 Right.

01:07:26.000 You were talking about that on your show.

01:07:28.000 Yeah.

01:07:29.000 And they rewrite some new thing.

01:07:31.000 Now David Miscavige rewrites things and says he found it in a vault somewhere.

01:07:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:07:36.000 And we all believe it, baby.

01:07:36.000 A vault?

01:07:38.000 Honestly, we all believe it because we want to believe it.

01:07:41.000 So talk me through.

01:07:43.000 So you go through this rigorous.

01:07:44.000 What level did you get to?

01:07:46.000 OT5. Ooh, you got close.

01:07:56.000 To get to this advanced level, you are put through the ringer.

01:08:03.000 They go through every folder.

01:08:04.000 From the moment you walk into a traditional Scientology, they have folders on you.

01:08:08.000 Everything you've ever said is written down and videotaped.

01:08:11.000 So they get your folders and they cull it.

01:08:16.000 They go through it.

01:08:17.000 And they go through every transgression.

01:08:19.000 Are you still humping your pillow? 1.00

01:08:21.000 Are you still a nasty asshole to your mother? 1.00

01:08:26.000 They go through everything. 1.00

01:08:28.000 Are you still connected to this person who said something bad about Scientology 20 years ago?

01:08:32.000 So they make sure that you're eligible.

01:08:36.000 To get the advanced data.

01:08:38.000 And where do they bring you?

01:08:40.000 Okay, they bring you to a room.

01:08:41.000 Where is it at?

01:08:42.000 It's on L. Ron Hubbard Way in Los Angeles in Fountain.

01:08:46.000 So, how nervous are you?

01:08:48.000 Are you freaking out? 0.99

01:08:49.000 I'm excited because finally all this shit I've put up with all my life is finally going to be answered. 0.98

01:08:55.000 All my questions of life are going to be answered in this moment. 0.98

01:08:58.000 And you realize this is the moment you're going to get the sacred documents.

01:09:01.000 So my mother, yeah, so because I'm a celebrity, they let my mother come in. 0.91

01:09:04.000 She was also higher level than me, right?

01:09:07.000 So imagine I'm in this, like, double, like, so you go through one door, and then security, and then you've got to get the lanyard.

01:09:12.000 You've got to get, like, clearance.

01:09:14.000 You've got to go take a picture.

01:09:16.000 You've got to sign documents that say, if I ever reveal this, it's going to be $100,000.

01:09:22.000 You know, you don't ever get to read any legal document that Scientology gives you.

01:09:26.000 So you just sign things.

01:09:27.000 They say, sign here, sign here.

01:09:28.000 It's like today, what you did here.

01:09:30.000 So I don't know.

01:09:31.000 I could be married to you is for all I know when I signed today.

01:09:35.000 I like how you shook your head no.

01:09:37.000 You don't need to shy out.

01:09:39.000 Okay, so you know comedy.

01:09:40.000 You don't deny, Joe.

01:09:41.000 So I don't know why you keep denying.

01:09:42.000 That's how you step up comedy another notch.

01:09:44.000 Got it.

01:09:45.000 You deny.

01:09:46.000 You just go, no.

01:09:47.000 Oh, I didn't get the memo.

01:09:48.000 Okay, so that's what we're doing now?

01:09:50.000 Okay, got it.

01:09:50.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:51.000 So we...

01:09:54.000 Okay, so you go into the room, the secure room.

01:09:58.000 You got a lanyard.

01:09:59.000 They take your photo.

01:10:00.000 You sign the documents.

01:10:01.000 Well, they give you a folder.

01:10:02.000 You have to get a briefcase that only you know the code to.

01:10:06.000 A briefcase?

01:10:07.000 So you go up to the window, to the AO window, and you hand them your briefcase.

01:10:11.000 They scan your briefcase, and they put the materials in the briefcase, and they close it.

01:10:16.000 They turn it back to you, and you lock it.

01:10:18.000 Then you attach the briefcase to your body.

01:10:21.000 Like a handcuff?

01:10:22.000 No, like with a little clip.

01:10:24.000 Like it has to be...

01:10:25.000 Has to be physically connected to you.

01:10:27.000 So when you go pee, you have your briefcase.

01:10:27.000 Right.

01:10:29.000 Briefcase coming with you.

01:10:30.000 Okay.

01:10:30.000 Right.

01:10:30.000 Correct.

01:10:31.000 So you get your briefcase.

01:10:33.000 They go down the hall and use your thing.

01:10:36.000 And you're going to be let into one door.

01:10:38.000 And then you're going to go into another door.

01:10:39.000 And then you're going to go into the course room.

01:10:41.000 That's what it's called.

01:10:42.000 So you go into the three doors or two doors or whatever it was.

01:10:45.000 And you sit down.

01:10:46.000 You open up your briefcase.

01:10:47.000 And you read the material for the first time.

01:10:50.000 The answers.

01:10:51.000 So my mother's sitting there in front of me.

01:10:54.000 She's so excited.

01:10:55.000 Understand that this is what you want for your kids.

01:10:59.000 They're getting up the bridge, and they're getting the answers to life, so when they come back next lifetime, they're not going to forget everything. 0.98

01:11:06.000 They're not going to be as fucked up as they were when they were. 0.97

01:11:08.000 You know what I mean? 0.99

01:11:09.000 It's really a proud moment.

01:11:12.000 And so my mom's sitting across from me like...

01:11:15.000 So excited.

01:11:16.000 And I'm reading this, that my body is made up of other beings.

01:11:21.000 My body, my whole body, my thoughts and everything are mixed in with these other beings that make up, compose my body.

01:11:30.000 Okay?

01:11:31.000 Are you following me with this?

01:11:33.000 What's your understanding of it?

01:11:35.000 Your body's made up of other beings.

01:11:38.000 Right.

01:11:39.000 Everything.

01:11:40.000 My thumb is composed of...

01:11:42.000 Your nails are other beings.

01:11:43.000 Your hair is other beings.

01:11:44.000 Maybe not the nails because they're acrylic.

01:11:45.000 Your skin is other beings. 1.00

01:11:45.000 Okay. 1.00

01:11:47.000 Your eyes are other beings.

01:11:48.000 Everything.

01:11:49.000 Just here.

01:11:52.000 My thumb is a person.

01:11:54.000 It's a being trapped into this body.

01:11:57.000 Okay?

01:11:58.000 So I read this and the supervisor comes over and he goes, Do you understand?

01:12:03.000 I want you to draw it out.

01:12:05.000 I want you to draw it out.

01:12:06.000 So the supervisor has access to this information.

01:12:09.000 He's standing there to make sure, right?

01:12:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:10.000 So I go like this, Joe.

01:12:11.000 Right.

01:12:12.000 You draw a little person.

01:12:13.000 Okay.

01:12:13.000 I go, there's a bunch of beings on me like that.

01:12:17.000 And I give it to him like that.

01:12:18.000 And he goes, start again.

01:12:20.000 I want you to read it again.

01:12:21.000 And then I want you to draw another one.

01:12:23.000 So I go, okay.

01:12:24.000 So I did all this, you know, and I literally did this, Joe.

01:12:28.000 I made circles on every part of my body.

01:12:30.000 So for people who are just listening, Lee's drawing a stick figure and she's drawing little circles all over the stick figure.

01:12:35.000 Right?

01:12:36.000 Now these beings were like from 75 trillion years ago.

01:12:41.000 They were put in volcanoes and blown up and packaged and overlord.

01:12:48.000 Anyway.

01:12:49.000 Are you freaking out at this point? 0.98

01:12:50.000 I go, I look at my mother, who's sitting, now the supervisor's standing over me, so I go, what in the fuck is this? 0.98

01:12:58.000 What is this? 0.98

01:13:02.000 And she's like, isn't it amazing?

01:13:05.000 So your mom was in.

01:13:06.000 I go, no, there's OT8. Right.

01:13:08.000 Your mom's OTA? Yeah.

01:13:10.000 Your mom's top of the food chain? 1.00

01:13:11.000 Yeah.

01:13:11.000 Not only is my mother top of the food chain when it comes to the counseling side, my mother was top of the food chain when it came to administering Scientology, which is very rare.

01:13:20.000 She was what's considered a high-trained auditor.

01:13:23.000 But she hadn't read this stuff yet?

01:13:24.000 Of course she read it.

01:13:25.000 She was just there to see my excitement.

01:13:26.000 Oh, I see.

01:13:27.000 Okay.

01:13:27.000 She was just there as a spectator to see her daughter receive the answers.

01:13:31.000 Right.

01:13:32.000 But you were super skeptical.

01:13:33.000 Okay.

01:13:38.000 Supervisor comes over and he goes, what don't you understand?

01:13:40.000 I go, I understand it.

01:13:41.000 I just, I don't, I don't love it.

01:13:42.000 Like, I'm not happy.

01:13:44.000 I go, I just got to tell you, I'm not happy with this is what it was.

01:13:47.000 And he goes, well, you don't need to believe it.

01:13:49.000 You just need to do it.

01:13:51.000 So that's the answer that's given to you.

01:13:53.000 You don't need to believe it.

01:13:54.000 You just need to do it.

01:13:55.000 So then you have to go and audit this.

01:13:58.000 You have to go and do it on yourself.

01:14:02.000 Talk to these beings on the meter by yourself.

01:14:05.000 So on the meter, meaning you hold the cans.

01:14:08.000 And when I say cans, folks, what they look like, it looks like soup cans.

01:14:12.000 Like if you drained all the soup from a soup can and it had a string attached to it, it's connected to some...

01:14:17.000 Yeah, you could just Google Scientology e-meter.

01:14:19.000 E-meter.

01:14:20.000 So you have to hold the e-meter and discuss this?

01:14:20.000 Okay.

01:14:24.000 No, you think it.

01:14:25.000 You think it.

01:14:25.000 You just think it.

01:14:26.000 So now you've got to go get your material.

01:14:28.000 So after you've been checked out on this and they get that you get what it is, then you go back to the window and they give you your actual, what you're supposed to do with this information.

01:14:39.000 So it'll say, like, it'll be a piece of paper and it'll say, ask...

01:14:43.000 This question.

01:14:45.000 And then look at the meter and what the answer is.

01:14:47.000 Whatever answer comes to your mind, write it down.

01:14:50.000 Do you see what I'm saying?

01:14:51.000 Yes.

01:14:51.000 Okay.

01:14:51.000 So all you're doing is awakening these things to talk to them, really.

01:14:56.000 Yeah.

01:14:57.000 Right.

01:14:57.000 And to let them go.

01:14:58.000 You're basically saying, like, go be free.

01:15:00.000 So this is OT3? Correct.

01:15:02.000 And by the way, when I was a Scientologist and I heard that this was a story, I didn't know, so I would go to the internet and go, OT3 story, but I didn't know if it was true, so I couldn't verify it.

01:15:14.000 Right.

01:15:15.000 Do you see what I'm saying? 0.99

01:15:15.000 So most people who go, that's bullshit, because they don't know what they're looking at on the internet. 0.99

01:15:20.000 Right. 0.98

01:15:21.000 There's no one to verify it with.

01:15:22.000 So if I went to my mother, let's say, before I got to this level, you're told to lie to people.

01:15:28.000 Oh, so...

01:15:29.000 You can't tell people what the answers are because they're going to get pneumonia.

01:15:32.000 They get pneumonia?

01:15:33.000 Literally will die.

01:15:35.000 So a lot of times when I lied to the press and then they confronted me on it and said, why'd you lie?

01:15:39.000 I was like, I had to, to save your life.

01:15:41.000 I mean, I can't.

01:15:43.000 I don't want to give you cancer.

01:15:44.000 So if you were about to go to OT3 and then you went online and you investigated what is OT3 and then you read a bunch of stuff about these little beings in your body and then asked your mom, your mom would have to lie to you.

01:15:56.000 As she did.

01:15:56.000 She would lie to me.

01:15:57.000 As she did.

01:15:58.000 So after you got through this, what made you do four and five?

01:16:03.000 Because there's always the carrot of like, just wait.

01:16:06.000 Okay, it'll make sense.

01:16:07.000 And by the way, here's what they do.

01:16:08.000 They set up that you're the auditor now.

01:16:10.000 So you're auditing these things in your body.

01:16:13.000 You're now the boss.

01:16:14.000 So they tell you, get your hat on.

01:16:17.000 It's your job.

01:16:18.000 You don't need to believe anything.

01:16:20.000 You just need to audit them.

01:16:23.000 So you need to do your job as an auditor.

01:16:25.000 That's what they're called, auditors.

01:16:26.000 People who are the ones who take you into session in Scientology.

01:16:30.000 So you feel like you're in a leadership role.

01:16:33.000 So you're doing these things a favor.

01:16:35.000 And you're like, well, maybe it's true.

01:16:36.000 I don't know.

01:16:37.000 I mean, I do sometimes hear voices.

01:16:39.000 You know, you have a moment with yourself, and you're like, I might be really kind of crazy.

01:16:44.000 So you're like, maybe this is an answer.

01:16:46.000 It's sick because it speaks to a side of you that wants answers about life. 1.00

01:16:52.000 And then you're like, no, this is some crazy shit, man. 0.99

01:16:54.000 It wasn't even... 0.99

01:16:56.000 People.

01:16:57.000 What?

01:16:58.000 No.

01:17:00.000 Listen, you believe what you want to believe at the time.

01:17:03.000 So does it feel to you at the moment like maybe if you just keep going, all the pieces will fall into place, then it'll make sense.

01:17:03.000 Right.

01:17:10.000 It's like, I'm confused now, but if I contemplate this and I really think it over, eventually I'm going to receive enough information where this is all going to be like, oh.

01:17:10.000 Yes.

01:17:18.000 Oh, I was a fool. 0.99

01:17:20.000 I didn't understand. 0.99

01:17:21.000 So, for example, one time I had talked to a friend about it.

01:17:21.000 Right.

01:17:24.000 I said, you know, I heard something about some Xenu shit. 1.00

01:17:28.000 She pulled me into Celebrity Center so fast, into a secured room, and she handed me my ass. 1.00

01:17:37.000 She said, don't you ever. 1.00

01:17:38.000 Say that word outside a secured room.

01:17:41.000 I'm writing a knowledge report on you.

01:17:42.000 She said, I'm writing a report on you.

01:17:44.000 You never say that word out loud in a room that's not secured.

01:17:50.000 And never say it again.

01:17:50.000 Okay?

01:17:51.000 So she wrote a report on me.

01:17:52.000 A knowledge report.

01:17:53.000 She wrote a knowledge report on me.

01:17:54.000 I got sent to what's called Ethics, which is like the Justice Department of Scientology.

01:18:00.000 And they said...

01:18:01.000 They brought me into another secured room because they have to get somebody who knows this information.

01:18:05.000 And they said, never, ever say this.

01:18:09.000 Never confirm it.

01:18:10.000 Never deny it.

01:18:11.000 Never give that information out, ever.

01:18:14.000 Just never discuss it.

01:18:15.000 Just say, I've never heard of it. 0.94

01:18:16.000 You sound crazy. 0.91

01:18:17.000 Wow. 0.99

01:18:18.000 And that's what we all say. 0.99

01:18:19.000 You sound crazy. 0.92

01:18:20.000 Or, you know, properly done. 0.95

01:18:22.000 You get it.

01:18:23.000 You know, like, you'll get it if it's properly done.

01:18:26.000 Those people didn't do it properly.

01:18:27.000 That's why they didn't understand it.

01:18:29.000 Do you see what I'm saying? 1.00

01:18:30.000 There's a line that you cross, right, where like, this is my life, this is Scientology, this is what I believe, and then you cross this line, oh my god, this is bullshit. 1.00

01:18:40.000 Right. 0.97

01:18:41.000 That line, that bridge that you cross in your mind, is a very distinct transition.

01:18:48.000 So, what was that like?

01:18:51.000 Like, what is that transition like?

01:18:54.000 Like, what is your life like?

01:18:56.000 Well, now...

01:18:58.000 How long ago did you leave?

01:19:00.000 July will be four years.

01:19:02.000 That's it?

01:19:03.000 That's not long.

01:19:03.000 Yeah.

01:19:04.000 No.

01:19:05.000 That's really recent.

01:19:06.000 Joe, and I'm still, you know, finding myself.

01:19:10.000 I'm still like, who am I? What do I believe?

01:19:13.000 You know, am I some bullshit? 1.00

01:19:13.000 Right. 1.00

01:19:15.000 Am I a person that, like you're saying, loves to fight?

01:19:18.000 Because I don't want that.

01:19:19.000 I don't want to be that person who loves to fight just to fight.

01:19:22.000 I want to be on the path of being...

01:19:26.000 I want to be who I really am.

01:19:26.000 Righteous.

01:19:28.000 And who I really am is sometimes an asshole, Joe. 1.00

01:19:32.000 Sometimes I have a horrible temper. 1.00

01:19:36.000 Sometimes I feel like I'm an old-school mafia person stuck in a female body.

01:19:40.000 I have really extreme thoughts about life.

01:19:44.000 And I'm finding who I am.

01:19:45.000 I'm finding out what I really believe because a lot of times I don't know.

01:19:49.000 I go, do I believe in that?

01:19:50.000 Don't I believe in that?

01:19:51.000 I was taught that everybody who smokes pot is evil.

01:19:53.000 Do I believe that everybody who cheats is evil and horrible and just lost?

01:19:57.000 Do I believe that other religions are lost?

01:19:59.000 Do I believe that everybody needs...

01:20:01.000 Like, I really...

01:20:01.000 I'm searching.

01:20:02.000 So you have to re-evaluate your entire belief system now.

01:20:05.000 And it was a big part of my day, remember.

01:20:05.000 Everything.

01:20:07.000 It gave me a mission.

01:20:08.000 It gave me purpose.

01:20:10.000 And that's what I hear a lot from Scientologists is ex-Scientologists not just hearing their pain of losing their families and everything they've ever known, but not having purpose.

01:20:21.000 Right.

01:20:21.000 When you wake up in the morning.

01:20:23.000 Like, you know, we have purpose, Joe.

01:20:25.000 We have kids.

01:20:26.000 Thank God for them.

01:20:27.000 But this, it was so much bigger.

01:20:30.000 It was for your children's children.

01:20:32.000 That's a giant factor for people.

01:20:34.000 I have some friends that were deeply involved in the Mormon religion, and they're not anymore.

01:20:39.000 And it was really weird, because we went to dinner once.

01:20:42.000 And they were saying, do you believe in a higher power?

01:20:45.000 And I said, it's entirely possible.

01:20:48.000 I said, but I don't believe in anything that I don't have any evidence of.

01:20:51.000 It's entirely possible.

01:20:53.000 I think the universe is an incredible mystery.

01:20:55.000 And I think the life itself in consciousness is an amazing mystery.

01:21:00.000 And I don't think we have all the answers.

01:21:02.000 I don't think an ant can understand a cell phone and I don't think I can understand the universe.

01:21:07.000 I just think my brain is not evolved enough.

01:21:09.000 I don't think our understanding has reached a point where we could really accurately describe what this is all about.

01:21:16.000 But their answer was like, how do you get up in the morning?

01:21:20.000 I go, I love life!

01:21:21.000 I like drinking nice wine.

01:21:24.000 I like having dinner.

01:21:25.000 I like being with my friends.

01:21:26.000 But Joe, not everybody has that.

01:21:29.000 Well, they probably should find some things they enjoy about this life.

01:21:32.000 Exactly.

01:21:33.000 But that's the thing is finding those things for Scientologists.

01:21:36.000 It's like a lot of my friends like who didn't really know what I was going through the church go, you know, you're very kind of childish at times, you know, because I never went to dinner in my 30s and 40s and had wine.

01:21:51.000 Right.

01:22:12.000 That's the one thing that I have found, and not in a weird way, not in a, I'm in another cult way, not in, just I have faith for the first time.

01:22:23.000 I don't believe in any one thing.

01:22:25.000 I believe in a higher power, and I believe that faith, having faith, It's a big thing.

01:22:32.000 These people that I was friends with, that I'm still friends with, this conversation got a little weird that night, but it got way weirder years later.

01:22:39.000 Why?

01:22:39.000 Because they wound up leaving.

01:22:40.000 What do you mean?

01:22:41.000 They left the Mormon church.

01:22:42.000 Oh, okay.

01:22:42.000 And why did that get weird?

01:22:43.000 Well, because then they became untethered.

01:22:46.000 And the conversation I had with the wife was very strange because she was like, I grew up indoctrinated in this fundamentalist religion.

01:22:55.000 And she goes, and now that I'm not in it, she goes, I don't know what to believe. 0.90

01:22:59.000 And I realized that my mindset is kind of fucked up because I'm indoctrinated, like my brain developed as a young age, believing nonsense and never questioning it. 0.94

01:23:09.000 She goes, so I feel very vulnerable, very susceptible. 0.99

01:23:12.000 She goes, I feel like if the right cult came along, they could scoop me up.

01:23:15.000 And she was laughing about it, but she wasn't laughing about it.

01:23:18.000 Well, here's the thing, I'm the opposite now.

01:23:19.000 That's why I don't want you to tell me nothing. 0.96

01:23:23.000 I don't want to be told a damn thing.

01:23:26.000 I've been told my whole life what to do and how to think, so I've gone the opposite. 0.92

01:23:30.000 Just don't tell me what I need to do.

01:23:36.000 It's far.

01:23:37.000 You know what I mean?

01:23:37.000 Like even going to the DMV when they go, you need to stand there.

01:23:40.000 I don't need to stand anywhere.

01:23:41.000 Like I don't need, guess what?

01:23:43.000 I don't need my license renewed.

01:23:44.000 And then I'm that person.

01:23:45.000 I will destroy my whole day and get a ticket because I don't want to be told what to do.

01:23:51.000 Don't talk to me like I'm, you know, your child and don't talk to me like, you know, I'm very much that way.

01:23:57.000 You know, you should have shorter nails. 1.00

01:23:58.000 I don't give a shit what you think about my nails. 0.98

01:24:01.000 I want them that. 0.98

01:24:02.000 They're slightly longer than average because it's purposeful.

01:24:06.000 And when I don't want them anymore, I won't have them.

01:24:09.000 But that's just a small scale.

01:24:11.000 I don't want people telling me what I should think anymore.

01:24:15.000 Let me find my way.

01:24:17.000 I'm going to make mistakes.

01:24:19.000 But I want to find my own way.

01:24:21.000 So you're sort of reestablishing your own personal sovereignty.

01:24:23.000 And I don't know what it is, Joe.

01:24:25.000 Like I said, I'm going to piss some more people off, I'm sure.

01:24:28.000 And I'm going to make a lot of mistakes.

01:24:29.000 I'm going to not be the perfect person people think I am or want me to be.

01:24:34.000 But I've got to make mistakes.

01:24:35.000 That's how you learn.

01:24:36.000 I wasn't able to learn.

01:24:38.000 Right.

01:24:39.000 It was like, do it this way.

01:24:41.000 This is the way we do it.

01:24:42.000 We don't do this.

01:24:42.000 We don't do that.

01:24:43.000 I mean, I was always a little bit of a rebel in, but I thought everybody was being held to this higher standard.

01:24:49.000 They weren't.

01:24:50.000 I was finding out other celebrities were smoking pot and then going into the sauna.

01:24:55.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:24:56.000 Like doing their purification rundown a hundred times.

01:24:59.000 What's that?

01:24:59.000 Because that's in the beginning steps of Scientology.

01:25:02.000 You have to do what's called a purification rundown.

01:25:04.000 It's supposed to...

01:25:06.000 Detox your body of all, you know...

01:25:09.000 Thetans?

01:25:10.000 Not Thetans. 0.63

01:25:10.000 You're not there yet. 0.63

01:25:11.000 No?

01:25:12.000 No, Joe.

01:25:13.000 You don't get to say that.

01:25:15.000 I don't get to say it?

01:25:17.000 No, baby.

01:25:17.000 Until you get there.

01:25:18.000 Oh, when do you get there?

01:25:19.000 You have to spend $380,000 and about 40 years of your life.

01:25:24.000 40?

01:25:25.000 Yeah.

01:25:25.000 That's a lot of work.

01:25:26.000 That's a lot of work.

01:25:27.000 No, you learn basically a purification rundown is just you're supposed to sweat out all of the toxins lodged in your fatty tissue.

01:25:36.000 Now, the problem with that is you're taking large amounts of niacin and they claim you're running out like suntan from when you were a kid and from other lifetimes.

01:25:51.000 Niacin?

01:25:52.000 Yes, niacin.

01:25:53.000 Like flash niacin?

01:25:54.000 Yes.

01:25:54.000 So you feel it in your skin, it gets you hot.

01:25:56.000 Yes, and you have to sit in the sauna for five hours.

01:25:58.000 Wow.

01:25:58.000 It's a five-hour thing.

01:26:00.000 But I was finding out, I was like, wait a minute, why was that person even smoking pot?

01:26:03.000 We're not allowed to smoke pot, right?

01:26:05.000 Like, I haven't been smoking pot this whole time, you know, where people do.

01:26:09.000 And I'm learning that other people were smoking pot, doing other drugs, and then going in the sauna.

01:26:13.000 I was like, wait, I didn't know there was an option for me.

01:26:15.000 Like, I was living by this, you know what I mean?

01:26:18.000 So that's what I'm going through now.

01:26:20.000 I'm not saying I'm smoking pot, but...

01:26:21.000 It sounds like you want to.

01:26:22.000 A little bit.

01:26:25.000 Only because I want to be calmer.

01:26:27.000 It might not make you calmer.

01:26:28.000 Okay, then I don't want it.

01:26:29.000 Well, it could.

01:26:30.000 It has a different effect on everybody. 1.00

01:26:32.000 I feel like I'm too old for that shit. 0.99

01:26:33.000 No, you're definitely not. 1.00

01:26:34.000 Joe, I'm too old for it.

01:26:35.000 No, you're not.

01:26:36.000 No, you're alive.

01:26:37.000 If you're alive, you can experience the benefits of a consciousness-enhancing substance, whether it's mushrooms or pot or anything.

01:26:43.000 Joe, that's crazy.

01:26:44.000 No, it's not crazy.

01:26:46.000 It's not crazy.

01:26:48.000 I don't know.

01:26:49.000 Look at me.

01:26:49.000 I'm like getting...

01:26:51.000 Yeah, you're freaking out.

01:26:52.000 You've been in a cult your whole life.

01:26:53.000 Sorry, folks.

01:26:56.000 Nobody in Scientology, other than the people who are going to attack me and you, are listening to this.

01:27:01.000 Well, even the people that are going to attack you and me.

01:27:04.000 I feel bad for them.

01:27:06.000 I feel bad for them.

01:27:07.000 I feel bad for anybody that wants to attack anybody for their beliefs or for talking about stuff.

01:27:10.000 And guess what?

01:27:12.000 If your religion or your belief system is so easily destroyed that someone can have a disparaging opinion about it and that threatens you to the point where you want to attack that person, you're doing something wrong.

01:27:24.000 You're leading your life wrong.

01:27:25.000 You're on the wrong path.

01:27:27.000 There's a lot of people that have different opinions about a lot of different things.

01:27:30.000 And it's one of the more interesting things about life.

01:27:32.000 Like, you don't like coconut water. 0.98

01:27:34.000 I fucking love coconut water. 0.99

01:27:36.000 We're allowed to. 0.99

01:27:37.000 You like cologne. 1.00

01:27:39.000 I think it smells like shit. 1.00

01:27:40.000 We're allowed to have different opinions. 1.00

01:27:42.000 This is one of the beautiful things about life.

01:27:44.000 People like different kinds of music, different styles of art.

01:27:47.000 They like different kinds of houses and different landscapes.

01:27:50.000 It's one of the things that makes people interesting.

01:27:53.000 So the problem with any kind of ideology, the problem with what this represents or any other kind of cult or any other kind of Really rigid structure is that human beings are very susceptible to those kind of routines.

01:28:10.000 We're very susceptible to influence.

01:28:12.000 We're very susceptible to other people carving out these predetermined patterns of behavior that you just quickly slot into.

01:28:20.000 Because it keeps you from having to form your own opinions.

01:28:22.000 And that's everything that's wrong.

01:28:25.000 And you truly believe that you believe it.

01:28:27.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

01:28:28.000 And you do believe it.

01:28:29.000 And it comes from you.

01:28:29.000 You do.

01:28:29.000 I mean, it's very easy for people to just slot themselves into these patterns and adopt those opinions as their own instead of trying to formulate their own.

01:28:38.000 Because it's very complicated to try to formulate your own opinions.

01:28:40.000 And they have to be flexible because new information comes up and then you have to kind of change them and adjust them and then recognize that perhaps, like you're recognizing right now, that like, wow, I've kind of like, I've lived a lie for like a long period of time.

01:28:54.000 I mean, it doesn't discredit you as a human, and it's very brave of you to discuss that openly, because it gives people that are listening to this the same sort of understanding of these thoughts that are in their own mind, whether it's because of whatever religion,

01:29:10.000 fill in the blank.

01:29:11.000 And that's the other thing about this. 0.95

01:29:12.000 How the fuck do they have tax-exempt status? 0.95

01:29:16.000 Well, because they, first of all, the IRS, they answered the IRS questions to get that status. 0.98

01:29:23.000 And one of them is, do you have any other affiliation with any other god?

01:29:27.000 Of which they said no.

01:29:29.000 They believe that they are spiritual beings and they deal with the spirit.

01:29:34.000 Right.

01:29:35.000 And so they answered the questions that needed to be answered for the IRS. Right.

01:29:40.000 But isn't it amazing that any religion gets tax-exempt status? 0.99

01:29:44.000 All of them are ridiculous. 0.85

01:29:46.000 Well, I don't want to make a comment about other, like, bona fide religions, because I don't like... 1.00

01:29:52.000 Do you think some of them are bona fide?

01:29:54.000 Yes, I do.

01:29:55.000 And I'm going to tell you why.

01:29:57.000 I mean, honestly, Joe, you have to really make the distinction between an organization that takes your mind hostage from the minute you walk in, and that you are required to be there two and a half hours a day,

01:30:13.000 that your eternity is at stake, that the planet, every man, woman, and child on this planet Their lives are at stake with what we do in Scientology.

01:30:22.000 Don't you think the people who are like super hardcore fundamentalist Christians believe that?

01:30:26.000 You said fundamentalists.

01:30:27.000 Okay, so I'm not talking about that.

01:30:29.000 What I'm talking about are what I witnessed as a child with my grandmother.

01:30:34.000 My grandma looked down the street from her church.

01:30:37.000 We would walk in on the way to get, you know, sausage and meatballs and things she needed to make her sauce.

01:30:43.000 And she'd go in and light a candle for her friend Connie.

01:30:46.000 Or she'd go in and light a candle because I lost my ring. 0.93

01:30:50.000 Or she'd pray to this saint or that saint.

01:30:52.000 And when I was scared at night, She would say, pray to this person.

01:30:59.000 Pray to, you know, do your cross and God's going to protect you when you sleep.

01:31:03.000 And here's your angel and, you know, here's your little cross.

01:31:06.000 You know, she would give me little, you know, the saints on the necklaces and stuff.

01:31:12.000 And she'd say, and I believed for that night that that saint was protecting me or that God was protecting me.

01:31:18.000 And those moments, it gave me comfort.

01:31:21.000 And so that's what I tell my daughter.

01:31:22.000 I don't want you to believe in anything, although I did baptize her as a Catholic.

01:31:27.000 I said, I want you to really find your way with some kind of spirituality, but I'm going to baptize you as a Catholic because I feel you need some kind of foundation, but I don't want you to be forced to believe in anything.

01:31:39.000 But I want you to believe in something or you're going to fall for anything.

01:31:43.000 And I didn't have structure as a child.

01:31:45.000 You know, I had Scientology.

01:31:48.000 But that's the structure, right?

01:31:49.000 Well, I mean a real religious base.

01:31:55.000 A real religious base.

01:31:56.000 Correct.

01:31:56.000 Have you ever heard the difference between a cult and a religion?

01:31:59.000 This is a beautiful quote.

01:32:00.000 What is it? 1.00

01:32:00.000 A cult is bullshit. 1.00

01:32:01.000 It's created by one person. 1.00

01:32:02.000 That person knows it's bullshit. 1.00

01:32:04.000 In a religion, that guy's dead. 1.00

01:32:06.000 Right.

01:32:08.000 Did you come up with that?

01:32:09.000 No.

01:32:10.000 Seems very Jewish. 0.99

01:32:11.000 No.

01:32:13.000 It's just something I read.

01:32:14.000 Yeah, I like it.

01:32:15.000 That's true.

01:32:16.000 So that was my experience of religion.

01:32:19.000 Now, I know people feel very differently about religion being forced down their throat, but I would have...

01:32:24.000 Kind of loved, you know, going with my family every Sunday to church.

01:32:28.000 I think it created, when I saw my father doing that with his other daughters, I was a little bit jealous that we didn't have that.

01:32:36.000 Right.

01:32:36.000 That we didn't get Easter dresses and it wasn't a big thing because my, you know, we didn't have that growing up.

01:32:41.000 It gives you comfort, right?

01:32:42.000 Yes.

01:32:43.000 Yeah.

01:32:43.000 And so that's, also, the, the, um, I'm trying to Look, it doesn't cost a quarter of a million dollars to get up to this level that I explained to you.

01:32:56.000 And by the end of it, if you have made millions, you're going to give those millions away.

01:33:02.000 It is a requirement.

01:33:04.000 That's not a requirement in other...

01:33:12.000 Mm-hmm.

01:33:34.000 Or information that they find on their own.

01:33:36.000 Right.

01:33:37.000 It's very different.

01:33:38.000 This is a pay-before-you-go proposition.

01:33:41.000 There are repercussions to leaving.

01:33:43.000 Nobody knows that I went in and out of a Catholic church the other day and lit a candle.

01:33:49.000 Nobody's calling me saying, where are you?

01:33:51.000 Why are you not here?

01:33:52.000 Who are you talking to?

01:33:53.000 You need to come in. 0.99

01:33:53.000 We're going to start working on your family, destroying your family. 0.99

01:33:57.000 Who does that?

01:33:58.000 I understand what you're saying.

01:33:58.000 But, you know, there's different styles of...

01:34:03.000 Behavior patterns that exist in all sorts of religions like Buddhism is radically different than Islam You know and there's different requirements that they ask of the people and a lot of it is based on the environment that these religions were established in based on how long these things have gone on for whether or not the the people that are a part of that religion have gone through the Enlightenment like what what different factors played a part and what standards they uphold today and what make people but My issue is always

01:34:33.000 with subscribing to predetermined patterns of behavior and ideologies where they indoctrinate you on specific ways to think.

01:34:42.000 And that's what that's it.

01:34:43.000 Yeah, that's what a lot of religions are.

01:34:45.000 I mean, it's a real issue with human beings.

01:34:47.000 Well, my grandmother, of course, was raised to think a certain way about people or lifestyle, but she had the choice to be friends with somebody who maybe wasn't those things.

01:35:05.000 Right, sure.

01:35:06.000 We don't have a choice.

01:35:08.000 No, it's pretty obvious that, especially in particular the way you're describing Scientology, it's far more suppressive than most and far more rigid in its behavior patterns.

01:35:18.000 Right.

01:35:18.000 And they force you into these behavior patterns, and it's incredibly difficult to break behavior patterns, especially when you believe firmly in your heart that this is the right way to be.

01:35:28.000 Yeah.

01:35:28.000 Yeah, but it's justified because you're clearing the planet.

01:35:31.000 It's just amazing that they don't have to pay taxes.

01:35:33.000 That's stunning if you look at their doctrine.

01:35:37.000 But that's the thing.

01:35:39.000 Where there have been judges that should have looked into the doctrine, they said we cannot actually look into the doctrine.

01:35:46.000 But they need to understand that you need to look into the doctrine where it's abusive and hurting people.

01:35:52.000 If your doctrine calls for you to hurt people, hurt children, the government does need to step in.

01:35:58.000 You're right.

01:35:59.000 Yeah.

01:35:59.000 I agree.

01:36:00.000 Well, absolutely, the accusations about the Sea Org and about people making 15 bucks a week and about these people that are essentially working as indentured servants.

01:36:10.000 Well, that's not illegal.

01:36:11.000 They sign up for it.

01:36:12.000 So as long as you sign up for it and sign that billion dollar contract, you're not subject to any minimum wage laws or anything along those lines?

01:36:19.000 No.

01:36:20.000 And by the way, Joe, I'm not really that smart enough to speak on these things because people think that my agenda is to take away their tax-exempt status.

01:36:30.000 I would love for that to happen, but that's not the reason for the show.

01:36:33.000 You just want to express yourself and be honest about your experiences and help other people be free.

01:36:38.000 These are other people's experiences.

01:36:39.000 But yours, too.

01:36:41.000 Well, because I know it's true, because I experienced it, I'm cosigning.

01:36:46.000 And I'm saying, you know, if you're going to bully somebody, bully me, bully A&E, but I'm going to let these people tell their stories because they're telling the truth.

01:36:53.000 Right.

01:36:54.000 Yeah.

01:36:54.000 And if we weren't telling the truth, you would have sued us.

01:36:56.000 So cut the shit already. 0.98

01:36:58.000 Well, that's what's interesting is the disclaimer at the end of your episode. 0.99

01:37:01.000 The end of our episode, it's in a hundred times.

01:37:03.000 Yeah.

01:37:04.000 Yeah.

01:37:05.000 It's bullshit, but they gotta do it. 0.99

01:37:07.000 I understand. 0.99

01:37:07.000 But I think it's smart. 0.99

01:37:08.000 It's smart to do it, you know?

01:37:09.000 It's a lot to me.

01:37:10.000 It's annoying.

01:37:10.000 Every time I see it, I roll my eyes.

01:37:12.000 I mean, every time I see it, I go...

01:37:13.000 I understand it, but, you know, it's annoying because what we're saying is true.

01:37:19.000 Mm-hmm.

01:37:20.000 Again, this is a litigious group.

01:37:22.000 They're not going to shy away from any lawsuit.

01:37:24.000 If they could have sued us, they would have.

01:37:26.000 But they know what we're saying is true.

01:37:28.000 These are the policies of the church.

01:37:30.000 Here's the thing, Joe.

01:37:31.000 What they should do is go, yeah, we subscribe to these policies. 0.98

01:37:34.000 You don't fucking like it. 0.99

01:37:36.000 Don't be part of our church. 0.99

01:37:37.000 But don't say, we're all lying. 1.00

01:37:39.000 It's right there on the internet, you assholes. 1.00

01:37:41.000 I have the books in my freaking garage. 1.00

01:37:44.000 Right. 0.91

01:37:44.000 What are you yawning about? 0.91

01:37:46.000 Not yawning at all.

01:37:47.000 I feel like you are.

01:37:47.000 No, no, no.

01:37:48.000 I'm just thinking.

01:37:49.000 Now, your current state right now, like doing this show and having all these people, I feel like you're helping a lot of them for sure.

01:37:58.000 Thank you.

01:37:58.000 Because you're getting their message out there.

01:38:00.000 And again, it's a very heartbreaking message when you see these people and they're not in contact with their children and they're not in contact with loved ones.

01:38:07.000 Yeah.

01:38:07.000 I couldn't imagine my daughter doing those videos going, my mother just wants to make a buck.

01:38:13.000 I'm disgusted by my mother.

01:38:15.000 I'm disgusted that she's my mother. 0.97

01:38:18.000 I would be...

01:38:21.000 It's crazy.

01:38:22.000 I'm one of the lucky ones.

01:38:25.000 These things didn't happen to me, Joe.

01:38:27.000 I wasn't molested.

01:38:29.000 I wasn't hurt.

01:38:31.000 I wasn't physically hurt.

01:38:33.000 My kids didn't disconnect from me.

01:38:36.000 My mother didn't disconnect from me.

01:38:37.000 I have my mother during the holidays.

01:38:39.000 I have my sisters.

01:38:40.000 I have my husband.

01:38:42.000 Now, your life must have revolved around the church in a very big way socially.

01:38:48.000 Yeah.

01:38:49.000 What is that like now?

01:38:50.000 Like all those people, they've written you off, right?

01:38:54.000 Yeah.

01:38:54.000 It's sad.

01:38:55.000 I'm sad for them because our relationship was obviously dependent on my relationship to the Church of Scientology.

01:39:03.000 You can understand that, right?

01:39:04.000 From them being brainwashed and...

01:39:06.000 No.

01:39:08.000 Because they knew me.

01:39:10.000 Right. 1.00

01:39:10.000 So for my church to say Leah's an enemy of our church, my friend should have said bullshit. 1.00

01:39:16.000 Well, aren't you kind of an enemy of them now, though? 0.99

01:39:18.000 I don't know why I would be.

01:39:19.000 They know we're telling the truth.

01:39:21.000 Right, but that truth is very damaging to their organization.

01:39:23.000 Why is it damaging?

01:39:24.000 Because their organization is...

01:39:25.000 This is the policies of the church.

01:39:26.000 Right, you're right.

01:39:27.000 No, I'm not saying you're saying anything wrong.

01:39:29.000 Stand behind it.

01:39:29.000 Say you don't like it, don't be part of it.

01:39:31.000 Yeah, but...

01:39:31.000 They can't really do that.

01:39:32.000 Why? 0.98

01:39:33.000 Because they're doing some fucked up things. 0.98

01:39:35.000 Maybe. 0.98

01:39:36.000 They say they're the epitome of morality.

01:39:38.000 They're the elite of mankind.

01:39:40.000 They're saving the planet.

01:39:42.000 So when you go on their website and see that they say they're the largest growing religion, they are the only ones with the solution to life, to man's ills, I'm not making this up. 0.95

01:39:54.000 So when you make those kinds of claims, Then stand behind it.

01:40:00.000 Say, that's right.

01:40:01.000 That's right.

01:40:01.000 We don't believe in other things.

01:40:03.000 We think you're all lost.

01:40:05.000 We are extremists.

01:40:06.000 We are bigots.

01:40:08.000 These are our beliefs.

01:40:09.000 Then don't join us.

01:40:10.000 We obviously have enough money.

01:40:12.000 Do you communicate with any of the people?

01:40:13.000 They're not allowed to talk. 0.96

01:40:14.000 As a matter of fact, I've seen celebrities who talk shit to me on Twitter and social media, not directly at me, and they run from me. 0.99

01:40:21.000 They run from me at parties. 0.99

01:40:23.000 And they're lucky.

01:40:24.000 They're lucky that they run. 1.00

01:40:26.000 Because, honestly, I don't mind you talking shit. 1.00

01:40:29.000 Just when you see me, back it up. 0.99

01:40:31.000 That's all.

01:40:32.000 Just back it up when you see me. 0.99

01:40:34.000 Who talks shit about you? 0.99

01:40:34.000 Can you say names? 0.99

01:40:35.000 You want to know why you don't want to name a name, Joe?

01:40:37.000 Yes.

01:40:37.000 Because I don't want to give them that much credit.

01:40:40.000 You can just name any celebrity that you know.

01:40:44.000 Like, as a Scientologist, who do we have?

01:40:46.000 We have Kirstie Alley. 0.99

01:40:48.000 We have Tom Cruise.

01:40:49.000 Kirstie Alley's still in? 0.99

01:40:52.000 She called me a bigot.

01:40:54.000 Yeah, she's big time.

01:40:55.000 You're a bigot?

01:40:55.000 I'm a bigot.

01:40:56.000 Because you don't like Scientology?

01:40:57.000 Right.

01:40:58.000 But I wasn't a bigot when I didn't like anybody else but Scientologists, right? 1.00

01:41:01.000 Because that's what Scientologists are.

01:41:02.000 I was very much a bigot.

01:41:04.000 And she knows it.

01:41:05.000 Who else is in?

01:41:06.000 Greta Van Susteren.

01:41:07.000 She's deep.

01:41:07.000 Greta Van Susteren.

01:41:09.000 Danny Masterson.

01:41:11.000 I don't know who that is.

01:41:12.000 Laura Prepon.

01:41:13.000 He was on the 70s show.

01:41:15.000 Oh yeah, she's in, right?

01:41:16.000 Laura Prepon, Juliette Lewis, her brother Lightfield Lewis.

01:41:22.000 She seems so balanced.

01:41:23.000 As a matter of fact, Lightfield Lewis was just at a wedding.

01:41:26.000 Juliette Lewis's brother, who I grew up with, Lightfield, okay, in the Scientology community.

01:41:30.000 He was filming a wedding.

01:41:31.000 He was doing the video.

01:41:33.000 He literally ran for me and my husband at a wedding.

01:41:37.000 And he was videoing the wedding.

01:41:39.000 So whatever that shot was.

01:41:41.000 And my husband even said to him, like he said, he goes, hey, Lightfield.

01:41:46.000 And he ran.

01:41:47.000 And the other band members, because he was singing, right?

01:41:50.000 The other band said, is he okay?

01:41:52.000 And he's like, oh, he's just a Scientologist.

01:41:57.000 Who else?

01:41:59.000 I'm ignorant as to how many celebrities are Scientologists.

01:42:02.000 I don't know. 0.89

01:42:03.000 Beck.

01:42:04.000 Well, I'm trying to say...

01:42:06.000 Beck's a weird one.

01:42:07.000 Why?

01:42:07.000 Well, because he's a musician.

01:42:09.000 Yeah.

01:42:09.000 You know, and he's like a uber creative.

01:42:11.000 You would think that person's like super open-minded. 0.99

01:42:14.000 He comes out with a song like, I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me? 0.99

01:42:17.000 Did he come out with that song? 1.00

01:42:18.000 It's his song.

01:42:19.000 Are you sure?

01:42:19.000 Yeah.

01:42:20.000 I'm a loser, baby. 0.99

01:42:21.000 Are you sure? 0.99

01:42:21.000 That's him. 0.99

01:42:22.000 So why don't you kill me? 1.00

01:42:24.000 Yeah, that's him. 1.00

01:42:24.000 I loved that song. 1.00

01:42:25.000 It's Beck.

01:42:26.000 It's like his big hit.

01:42:27.000 Are you for sure?

01:42:28.000 100%.

01:42:29.000 Okay.

01:42:30.000 Jamie, you know, right?

01:42:31.000 Okay, this one's saying yes, so I believe him.

01:42:33.000 Because he seems Beck-ish.

01:42:34.000 Yeah.

01:42:35.000 Like a Beck.

01:42:36.000 Like he would be a nine-inch nails person.

01:42:40.000 That's Jamie.

01:42:41.000 He wears Yeezys. 1.00

01:42:42.000 Poor bastard. 1.00

01:42:43.000 Look at him. 1.00

01:42:45.000 Douche. 0.94

01:42:47.000 So douchey.

01:42:52.000 Who else?

01:42:53.000 Who else is in deep?

01:42:54.000 Jenna Elfman, right?

01:42:56.000 She's still in deep? 0.99

01:42:57.000 Whatever happened to her?

01:42:59.000 Did she have that big show? 0.96

01:43:01.000 I don't know.

01:43:01.000 We all go up and down in our careers.

01:43:03.000 You know, that's the thing, too.

01:43:04.000 I love how the church tries to measure.

01:43:07.000 She's an actress past her time.

01:43:11.000 The church says that?

01:43:12.000 Oh, yeah.

01:43:13.000 It's on my website.

01:43:14.000 How's anyone past their time, if you're still alive and acting, right?

01:43:17.000 Betty White's not past her time. 0.50

01:43:19.000 But I was famous enough when I was in.

01:43:21.000 Right.

01:43:22.000 Oh, now you're past your time.

01:43:23.000 That's what they're saying about you?

01:43:24.000 Oh, hilarious.

01:43:25.000 That's adorable.

01:43:26.000 And by the way, you can't measure people.

01:43:28.000 We have an up-and-down career.

01:43:30.000 But I don't need to work.

01:43:33.000 I want to work.

01:43:34.000 I love what I do.

01:43:35.000 I love acting.

01:43:36.000 I love making people laugh.

01:43:37.000 But I don't need to do it.

01:43:39.000 You only need one...

01:43:41.000 Solid hit in your life.

01:43:42.000 You know that.

01:43:43.000 This is my passion.

01:43:45.000 This is something that I always wanted to do as far as helping people.

01:43:50.000 This is why I was in Scientology.

01:43:52.000 I loved helping people.

01:43:54.000 It was everything to me.

01:43:56.000 If somebody needed help, I was There.

01:43:58.000 I just love it. 0.97

01:44:00.000 That's why I know, like, to talk shit about these people, I know in their hearts they really believe they're helping. 0.97

01:44:06.000 Even attacking me is helping. 0.99

01:44:08.000 So I don't really want to call these people out like this specific person, but at least have the balls to back it up when you see me.

01:44:17.000 So you believe they just have misguided intentions, but their intentions are correct, as you did at one point in time, too.

01:44:23.000 So you're uniquely qualified.

01:44:25.000 I would call anybody a liar, a bigot. 0.80

01:44:27.000 I would tell the Xenu story is a lie. 0.98

01:44:29.000 It's crazy. 0.99

01:44:30.000 You sound crazy.

01:44:31.000 What is the Xenu story?

01:44:32.000 This is the story.

01:44:34.000 This is how they got to be attached to our bodies.

01:44:38.000 The Xenu story is they got packaged.

01:44:40.000 What is it?

01:44:40.000 You can Google it.

01:44:41.000 They fell into a volcano, got dropped into a volcano or something?

01:44:45.000 Yes, they got packaged.

01:44:46.000 Like, there was a planet that existed like this.

01:44:48.000 It looked like this.

01:44:50.000 And then the Lord Xenu thought that there was too many people on the planet, so he packaged all these people up.

01:44:59.000 Is that OT-8 stuff?

01:45:00.000 No, I think this is OT-3 stuff.

01:45:02.000 OT-3.

01:45:03.000 And what happens, like, at OT-8?

01:45:05.000 Your mom's out now, right?

01:45:06.000 Well, hold on.

01:45:06.000 Yeah, so hold on.

01:45:07.000 So you were told from the very beginning in Scientology that you have a reactive mind.

01:45:13.000 And so in Dianetics, you are running out these bad experiences that you've had maybe this lifetime, maybe last lifetime, maybe lifetimes ago.

01:45:22.000 So you're told that you have a reactive mind, and we're going to take it away.

01:45:25.000 We're going to find it.

01:45:27.000 We're going to take it away.

01:45:28.000 So you don't even know that you have it until you're told you have it, right?

01:45:31.000 So you run all these things, these incidents.

01:45:34.000 Like you'll get a picture in your head.

01:45:36.000 Oh, I'm getting a picture that I was like a French man in all the medieval times, whatever.

01:45:41.000 They're like, that's okay.

01:45:42.000 You don't have to believe it.

01:45:43.000 Just say it.

01:45:44.000 Just say what it is.

01:45:45.000 Yes, and then I was burned at stake.

01:45:47.000 I was a witch.

01:45:48.000 Obviously, I was in Salem because I have a problem with fire.

01:45:52.000 And you're making up these things as you go.

01:45:54.000 And then you're like, I think I'm making these up.

01:45:55.000 And then there's a policy that says the person's going to say by Elwood Harbor that they're making it up, but they're not making it up.

01:46:00.000 These are real pictures of real past lies.

01:46:03.000 I don't know.

01:46:03.000 Right?

01:46:04.000 Mm-hmm.

01:46:04.000 Okay.

01:46:05.000 By the time you get to OTA, you're told, okay, so what wasn't true?

01:46:11.000 All of that was a lie.

01:46:12.000 You made that up.

01:46:14.000 But what is, like, what aren't you?

01:46:17.000 So I'm not a body.

01:46:20.000 I'm not an arm.

01:46:22.000 I'm not a this.

01:46:23.000 I was never Louis.

01:46:25.000 I was never that guy that I said.

01:46:27.000 I was never a witch in Salem.

01:46:31.000 So that's what OTA is.

01:46:32.000 You're basically told what wasn't true.

01:46:35.000 What are you?

01:46:36.000 Like, what are you really?

01:46:38.000 I'm just me is the answer.

01:46:39.000 How did your mom get out?

01:46:41.000 My mom got off that ship and she said, I'm never going back.

01:46:45.000 Why is that? 0.99

01:46:46.000 I'm never doing another thing because she thought it was bullshit. 0.98

01:46:48.000 But she thought it was okay when you were going through your OT3 thing and they're explaining to you that you're covered with bugs that are beings. 0.98

01:46:54.000 Because you're not ready.

01:46:55.000 You're not bugs, baby.

01:46:56.000 What didn't you understand?

01:46:58.000 Do we need to go back?

01:47:00.000 Baby, do we need to do...

01:47:02.000 No, we don't, but I'm laughing.

01:47:03.000 I'm just joking around.

01:47:05.000 Little beings.

01:47:06.000 Like you and I, just without a body. 1.00

01:47:10.000 So your mom got all the way past that, and something, she decided at one point in time, it's bullshit. 0.98

01:47:18.000 It wasn't for me. 0.97

01:47:19.000 What was it that she decided?

01:47:20.000 She couldn't tell me that.

01:47:21.000 If she would have told me that, that would have stopped me from going.

01:47:25.000 They would have pulled me in immediately. 0.99

01:47:27.000 So when did she think it was bullshit? 0.99

01:47:28.000 An OTA. Oh, so she got to the top. 0.99

01:47:31.000 But she can't tell me she thinks it's bullshit. 0.99

01:47:33.000 I'm still coming up behind her. 0.99

01:47:35.000 Right.

01:47:35.000 If I... If she then pulled me in and said, Leah, this is bullshit.

01:47:40.000 Like, I don't want you to continue. 0.99

01:47:42.000 Then I would have turned her in.

01:47:44.000 I would have...

01:47:45.000 Oh.

01:47:46.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:47:46.000 They would have gone to work on me and your mother.

01:47:49.000 You need to disconnect from your mother.

01:47:51.000 She didn't want me to disconnect from her.

01:47:53.000 That's so complicated.

01:47:54.000 She didn't want to lose her family.

01:47:56.000 So you learned to be quiet.

01:47:59.000 It's so complicated.

01:48:00.000 It is complicated, and it takes years and years of this.

01:48:03.000 It doesn't happen overnight.

01:48:06.000 So your mom got to OTA, so she had to go to the ship.

01:48:09.000 Yeah.

01:48:09.000 And is it the wackiest of the wacky when she got to there, and she's like, this is nonsense, I'm done?

01:48:14.000 She was just happy to be done, finally.

01:48:16.000 It was almost like she was free.

01:48:18.000 Wow.

01:48:18.000 Yeah.

01:48:19.000 So what happens when she left?

01:48:20.000 Did they go, hey, where are you going?

01:48:21.000 No, no, no.

01:48:22.000 After you're done, they let you off the ship.

01:48:25.000 Right.

01:48:25.000 You complete it, you get a cert, and that's it.

01:48:28.000 And then you don't have to go every day anymore?

01:48:30.000 No.

01:48:30.000 Really?

01:48:31.000 But they created more OT levels now, so she would have been called back in.

01:48:35.000 They created more.

01:48:36.000 Yeah.

01:48:36.000 So you get to eight, you know, like, look, we just went to the vault.

01:48:39.000 Right.

01:48:39.000 We uncovered a scroll.

01:48:40.000 Right.

01:48:41.000 We found some writings of L. Ron Hubbard before he passed.

01:48:45.000 And I swear to God, it's not even a lie.

01:48:48.000 And you believe it.

01:48:49.000 Joe, don't laugh at me.

01:48:50.000 Because I feel bad for, like, I feel bad for people.

01:48:53.000 I do too.

01:48:54.000 Looking back, I go...

01:48:55.000 You know, we all went into it with a good heart.

01:48:58.000 We believed what they were saying.

01:49:01.000 It was like, what do you mean you just found it?

01:49:04.000 L. Ron Hubbard said it was the end of the bridge.

01:49:06.000 It was OT-8.

01:49:07.000 And we spent our whole life doing this.

01:49:09.000 You want there to be a definite end so you can live your life a little bit.

01:49:13.000 It's just incredible that a science fiction writer could create something like this that's so poorly written and poorly thought out.

01:49:20.000 We only knew of his science fiction writing from him telling us, but it wasn't like we knew L. Ron Hubbard as a science fiction writer.

01:49:27.000 But there must be some knowledge of it, otherwise Battlefield Earth would have been made.

01:49:30.000 Oh, of course.

01:49:30.000 They have a whole literary building on Hollywood Boulevard called Arthur Services.

01:49:38.000 And it's all dedicated to Elman Hubbard's publishing.

01:49:42.000 And you walk in, you think, this man is a serious writer.

01:49:46.000 Like, this is somebody who was really well accomplished in this world.

01:49:49.000 For people who don't know, he wrote more books and wrote more stuff, more fiction than any human being that's ever lived, ever.

01:49:56.000 Is that true?

01:49:57.000 Yes.

01:49:57.000 He wrote more fiction than anyone who has ever walked the face of the planet.

01:50:01.000 Doesn't that say something about his OT abilities? 1.00

01:50:03.000 He made up more shit than anyone who ever lived. 1.00

01:50:07.000 So he wrote down more shit that never really happened than anyone who ever lived. 1.00

01:50:13.000 But the Scientology stuff he was telling the truth about. 0.99

01:50:16.000 Right.

01:50:18.000 But you don't make that distinction.

01:50:22.000 You're reading Dianetics because it's a self-help book.

01:50:24.000 Like you, we're searching for something bigger.

01:50:28.000 Most people are looking for that.

01:50:30.000 And so when you read that book and you're like, oh, I could cure myself of psychosomatic ills.

01:50:35.000 Right.

01:50:37.000 Well, that was a big part of going clear, is that it seems pretty obvious that he was going through some issues himself, and he was trying to self-diagnose himself.

01:50:45.000 Well, he cured himself of blindness, he said.

01:50:48.000 And you believe it.

01:50:49.000 You want to believe it, Joe.

01:50:51.000 You want to believe, like, I can cure myself of things.

01:50:55.000 I am the cause of my own well-being, by my own thoughts.

01:50:59.000 And I don't want this reactive mind.

01:51:01.000 And, you know, that makes sense, right?

01:51:03.000 When people say, have you ever done anything that is uncontrollable to you, that you know is damaging to you?

01:51:09.000 And you're like, yeah, every day.

01:51:11.000 I don't want to make bad decisions.

01:51:12.000 Well, that's because it's your reactive mind.

01:51:14.000 Right.

01:51:15.000 It's beneath you.

01:51:17.000 It's in your subconscious, deep in your subconscious.

01:51:19.000 And we're going to help you find those.

01:51:22.000 And we're going to help you to stop making bad decisions.

01:51:25.000 And who doesn't want that?

01:51:27.000 Right.

01:51:28.000 And you believe it.

01:51:29.000 You go from maybe punching somebody in the face for looking at you a certain way to being able to control your emotions.

01:51:37.000 You're like, oh, okay, maybe this is working.

01:51:38.000 Oh, okay, I used to do drugs.

01:51:40.000 Now I don't.

01:51:41.000 You know, in Kirstie's case, it saved her life.

01:51:44.000 So if she believes that it saved her life, it saved her life.

01:51:47.000 I'm not taking that away from her.

01:51:49.000 I'm not taking away your gains and your wins.

01:51:52.000 But don't take away the fact that you know I'm telling the truth.

01:51:55.000 And don't come from me when you know I'm telling the truth. 0.99

01:51:58.000 Because then we do have a fucking problem. 0.99

01:52:00.000 Well, it seems like, yeah, I mean, they're a Klan, you know, and you are opposing the Klan, you know? 0.99

01:52:06.000 But they know it's true. 0.79

01:52:07.000 Right.

01:52:08.000 Listen, if you didn't know it was true, then I'd be like, oh, she's unaware.

01:52:11.000 She knows it's true.

01:52:12.000 So to come from me is kind of crazy.

01:52:14.000 Right.

01:52:14.000 It is kind of crazy.

01:52:15.000 What is the predominant criticism amongst these people?

01:52:18.000 They can't say you're lying, right?

01:52:21.000 Yes, they say I'm lying.

01:52:22.000 About what?

01:52:23.000 They say we're all lying, baby, not just me.

01:52:24.000 We're all lying.

01:52:25.000 Any person who's spoken out against the church is lying.

01:52:29.000 We are...

01:52:30.000 Bigots.

01:52:31.000 We are invalidating their religious beliefs.

01:52:36.000 We are telling them that something didn't help them.

01:52:40.000 Nobody's saying that.

01:52:41.000 If you feel you've been helped, you've been helped.

01:52:43.000 However, you know the truth, and now you have a responsibility.

01:52:48.000 But what they think is, I don't want to have a problem.

01:52:51.000 Scientology helps me, and so that's all I care about. 0.99

01:52:54.000 So you don't give a shit about abuses. 0.98

01:52:55.000 You don't care that children were being molested, and these things were being... 0.99

01:52:59.000 Hidden.

01:53:00.000 You don't care that people are being beaten.

01:53:01.000 What children are being molested?

01:53:02.000 Honey, if you even just Google what I just said, Scientology and child molesting, you will come upon website after website of people saying, I was molested while I was in the church, and the church did nothing about it.

01:53:14.000 I'm not alleging it.

01:53:15.000 This is what I've read.

01:53:16.000 This is what I've seen.

01:53:17.000 Right.

01:53:19.000 I hadn't heard that before.

01:53:22.000 Well, you can hear it.

01:53:23.000 You're going to hear it because people are becoming more and more vocal about what's happened to them.

01:53:28.000 And so if I seem overly passionate about this subject, it's because I have heard these stories.

01:53:38.000 Over and over again, behind the scenes.

01:53:40.000 I have heard stories of people being abused, children being abused, mentally, physically, sexually, and I'm only me with a show.

01:53:49.000 You know, A&E can't do anything other than just let me tell these stories.

01:53:54.000 So I'm virtually, and Mike Rinder, and I'm trying to do something right by these people.

01:54:04.000 And so the last thing that I want to be bothered with is bullshit from a celebrity who knows that we're telling the truth about what we have already spoken about, but to be interested enough to maybe find out what I am talking about now.

01:54:19.000 Right. 0.88

01:54:20.000 Well, the Greta Van Susteren one is really odd because she's a news person.

01:54:24.000 She's supposed to be a television news journalist, right?

01:54:28.000 I mean, isn't that what she does? 0.97

01:54:30.000 Well, I don't know.

01:54:31.000 Yes, but why?

01:54:32.000 Why is that? 0.99

01:54:33.000 Because I would just assume, like, you would want your news from someone who doesn't believe a bunch of wacky shit. 0.99

01:54:39.000 Well, in her defense, I mean, who knows what any person believes. 0.99

01:54:45.000 True.

01:54:47.000 However, the distinction that I'm glad you did make is when you are hearing about abuses, when you are hearing about things that are happening that are hurting people, you then do need to say, I'm aligned with this organization, and so I do need to find out.

01:55:02.000 Right.

01:55:02.000 How long has she been in it?

01:55:03.000 I think most of her life.

01:55:05.000 There's a lot of people like that, right?

01:55:07.000 Get indoctrinated as a child?

01:55:08.000 Yes.

01:55:09.000 Have you received emails or any sort of contact from people who your show benefited and it was the catalyst for them leaving?

01:55:17.000 A lot.

01:55:18.000 No, for leaving?

01:55:19.000 No, we've received...

01:55:22.000 Tons of emails of people who said, I'm glad you told me, I'm glad I watched your show, I'm well informed now, I will never step into a church of Scientology.

01:55:33.000 But what about people leaving because of it?

01:55:35.000 Well, you're not getting Scientologists watching the show.

01:55:38.000 Right.

01:55:39.000 No, but they have shows, right?

01:55:41.000 They do have TV, right?

01:55:42.000 You don't have to be on the front.

01:55:43.000 Well, average Scientologists do, but they're not watching shows like this.

01:55:47.000 They'd have to pay for that.

01:55:48.000 Literally, Joe.

01:55:49.000 You'd have to go in the next day and pay to have your own interrogation and punishment handed to you for watching a show like ours or going clear.

01:55:57.000 After a while, you just go, I don't want the punishment.

01:56:00.000 Especially if you believe that I am... 0.67

01:56:03.000 The devil. 0.99

01:56:04.000 If you believe that I am a liar, that I have crossed over to another side, that I'm not to be listened to, would you support somebody who is talking shit about you and your faith or your family and people you love? 0.99

01:56:17.000 Would you go out of your way to listen to them? 0.99

01:56:18.000 Maybe.

01:56:19.000 But the average person doesn't want to seek out things that they think are damaging to them.

01:56:25.000 What kind of blowback have you received from this?

01:56:27.000 And what kind of blowback is a guy like Paul Haggis or Lawrence Wright or any of these people?

01:56:32.000 Well, Paul had to watch his family go on his hate website that the Church of Scientology created and watch his family talk about him.

01:56:40.000 Because they're still in it.

01:56:42.000 Because they're still in it.

01:56:43.000 Disconnect from him.

01:56:44.000 As every single person who's been on this show.

01:56:47.000 They've been followed.

01:56:49.000 They've been harassed.

01:56:50.000 They've got PIs following them.

01:56:52.000 They have people showing up at their jobs.

01:56:54.000 They're getting mail.

01:56:56.000 People who don't even have never stepped into a church are getting mail connected to me.

01:57:04.000 Mail at their house.

01:57:06.000 Have never stepped into a church of Scientology.

01:57:09.000 The girl does my eyebrows. 0.97

01:57:10.000 She's like, I said, you've never stepped into a church of Scientology?

01:57:14.000 She said, never.

01:57:15.000 She's getting mail for the first time for the church of Scientology.

01:57:18.000 It's just crazy.

01:57:19.000 But that's just a little anecdote.

01:57:23.000 But To have your family make videos of you, to not talk to you, to refuse to see you, their own grandchildren, that's just something I can't deal with.

01:57:37.000 But also now, what I'm dealing with now is hearing stories of these people who have been silenced for years, the pain that they've had to deal with and sustain through these years, the fact that they're normal in any way is a miracle.

01:57:54.000 And so I hope to do something with them and I hope to to make some change.

01:57:59.000 What are the positive aspects of Scientology and how do you think it benefited you and do you think it's possible to take some of those positive aspects and either reform that organization or form another organization that doesn't try to control people's thinking but maybe positive maybe tries to encourage The positive benefits of being a part of a group.

01:58:24.000 I couldn't promote anything good about it because I know it's an all-in proposition.

01:58:27.000 Right.

01:58:28.000 But isn't there some benefits?

01:58:31.000 Yeah, you can read books.

01:58:32.000 You can always buy the books if you want to buy the books.

01:58:36.000 I go into a therapist now and I bring up concepts and she's like, oh yeah, that was in psychology.

01:58:42.000 I'm like, what?

01:58:43.000 Right, a lot of it is from that.

01:58:44.000 A lot of it is from that.

01:58:45.000 What?

01:58:45.000 This existed?

01:58:46.000 Yeah.

01:58:47.000 You know, so yeah, but I believe in finding things that work for you.

01:58:52.000 I don't think it's one thing.

01:58:53.000 The one thing that my therapist is teaching me is that it's not just one thing.

01:58:57.000 You know, you get something from here, you get something from there, it's knowledges.

01:59:01.000 Scientology is not about knowledges, it's about us.

01:59:04.000 And this therapy thing is very new to you?

01:59:06.000 You never went through any therapy?

01:59:08.000 No, as a matter of fact, my first thing that I said to her is, I just want you to know that I think I know more than you.

01:59:11.000 I was taught as a Scientologist that you have wasted your life going to college.

01:59:18.000 I could do for a person in five minutes on this e-meter what you're going to do with me in five years.

01:59:25.000 And what did your therapist say?

01:59:27.000 I understand.

01:59:28.000 I understand.

01:59:29.000 I understand that you feel that way.

01:59:31.000 And she said, you know, that spirituality and religion should have nothing to do with the ego.

01:59:39.000 Like, that stayed with me for a second, because I was like, I have a huge ego.

01:59:43.000 She's right.

01:59:44.000 She's right.

01:59:45.000 Scientologists believe that they have the answers.

01:59:48.000 And when you believe that, you have shut yourself off to the fruits of observation, to experiencing other people, to opening your heart up to things.

01:59:59.000 I mean, it shuts you off completely.

02:00:02.000 So you feel like this is a part of you that you're re-exploring or exploring maybe for the first time.

02:00:07.000 Yeah, like your non-cologne thing is like, I'm so judgy about it, but I'm willing to maybe change my mind.

02:00:13.000 My non-cologne thing.

02:00:15.000 I'm sure you've seen that video of Tom Cruise where it's got the Mission Impossible sort of soundtrack playing in the background.

02:00:21.000 He's talking about a car accident.

02:00:23.000 Have you stumbled upon a car accident?

02:00:25.000 Like you know that you are the one who has to take care of it because you're a Scientologist and you're the only one who can handle that.

02:00:31.000 And you believe that when you're a Scientologist.

02:00:33.000 Not only you are taught that we are the only ones doing anything, that you are the only ones.

02:00:39.000 That's why it was so shocking to me when no one in my church was willing to stand with me.

02:00:42.000 I was like, wow, so we are not those people who stand up, right?

02:00:46.000 We are the people who look the other way.

02:00:48.000 Because you're all looking the other way because of Tom, because of Dave Miscavige, because you have no bulls.

02:00:54.000 Really?

02:00:55.000 Are we those people?

02:00:57.000 Because the truth of the matter is, when there was an accident, Joe, I did stop.

02:01:00.000 I am that person that stops and says, are you okay?

02:01:02.000 So that's one of the positive benefits of Scientology.

02:01:06.000 Well, you feel that you're responsible for everything.

02:01:08.000 And you felt like you wanted help as well.

02:01:10.000 Always.

02:01:10.000 You felt you could help and you wanted to help.

02:01:12.000 Always.

02:01:12.000 That's a positive thing, right?

02:01:13.000 You're right.

02:01:14.000 And all Scientologists do think they're helping.

02:01:16.000 Right.

02:01:16.000 So there's got to be some...

02:01:18.000 One of the things that I've found about a lot of Scientologists...

02:01:21.000 No, that's a huge ego, Joe.

02:01:22.000 Yes.

02:01:22.000 If you think you're the only one doing anything...

02:01:25.000 Right.

02:01:25.000 By the way, there are other people who stopped.

02:01:28.000 But I believed that it was because I was a Scientologist that I stopped.

02:01:33.000 Right.

02:01:34.000 But then I saw in life, I was like, wait a minute, there's good people in the world.

02:01:37.000 They have no interest, no ulterior motive, no vested interest in helping somebody.

02:01:46.000 I'm almost shocked with the show.

02:01:48.000 That's why in the last episode I was in tears.

02:01:51.000 I was a mess because I was shocked by the goodness of people that I thought the world was so screwed because of Scientology, because I thought we were the only good people in the world.

02:02:04.000 Do you see what I'm saying? 1.00

02:02:04.000 That sounds so stupid and juvenile. 1.00

02:02:06.000 It doesn't, though. 1.00

02:02:08.000 It completely makes sense.

02:02:09.000 And honestly, from someone who's lived their entire life indoctrinated in that ideology, and you've only been out for four years, you're showing a remarkable amount of self-insight and a remarkable amount of ability to examine the flaws of your past thinking.

02:02:31.000 And current.

02:02:31.000 Yeah, and current.

02:02:33.000 Yeah, because every day I'm like, that's really messed up, Leah.

02:02:35.000 But to abandon the foundation that you've kind of established your entire life on, it's got to be insanely difficult to do it in your 40s after all these years of being involved in this crazy sort of organization.

02:02:47.000 It's very admirable.

02:02:49.000 It's very hard. 0.97

02:02:50.000 It'd be way easier for you to just stay in, stay inside your comfort zone, keep doing all your nonsense, get up to OT55 or whatever the fuck it is now, and just keep paying the money and keep your friends. 0.79

02:03:04.000 Do you miss any of your friends that were in it? 0.97

02:03:09.000 No, I only miss the children of, like my goddaughter.

02:03:16.000 And, you know, because I see her.

02:03:17.000 She lives in my neighborhood.

02:03:18.000 And she can't talk to you? 0.81

02:03:20.000 Well, her mother can't talk to me. 1.00

02:03:21.000 She doesn't know me now.

02:03:23.000 I delivered her, you know, delivered her in the hospital.

02:03:27.000 And then we moved my friend close to me down the street so that she could be in a certain school district.

02:03:35.000 And then I'd be able to be with my goddaughter.

02:03:37.000 And I see her in the neighborhood and she can't talk to me.

02:03:43.000 So the girl, you know, my guard door doesn't know me. 1.00

02:03:46.000 She wouldn't know to come to me because she's now only, you know, five, six, you know what I'm saying?

02:03:52.000 Right.

02:03:55.000 How are they hanging on?

02:03:56.000 How are they staying?

02:03:58.000 They have amassed $3 billion in assets.

02:04:01.000 $3 billion.

02:04:01.000 Mm-hmm.

02:04:02.000 Yes.

02:04:03.000 And so it's going to take a few good men and women to stand up with us and get interested.

02:04:11.000 Like I said, there's been a few public figures to publicly come out.

02:04:15.000 You're now one of them.

02:04:17.000 Conan is another one.

02:04:18.000 And Bill Maher. 0.99

02:04:20.000 There's some people with some balls that are willing to say this is bullshit and we should be doing something about it. 0.98

02:04:26.000 The world at large is supportive of me and the people who are contributing to the show. 0.98

02:04:32.000 Amazingly supportive.

02:04:33.000 Social media has been amazing to us.

02:04:36.000 And as well, A&E, very brave to do a show like this.

02:04:40.000 This is the first time of its kind.

02:04:42.000 I mean, a series about it.

02:04:44.000 It took some balls on their part. 0.79

02:04:47.000 They pussied out with disclaimers, but okay. 0.92

02:04:49.000 I think they probably had to do that for their lawyers. 0.92

02:04:51.000 You don't need to defend them.

02:04:57.000 So I think more and more people are coming out.

02:04:59.000 More and more people are being supportive.

02:05:01.000 But we need more people in the public eye to say, this is enough.

02:05:04.000 We need to do something.

02:05:05.000 What has it been like doing press for this and promoting it?

02:05:08.000 Like, what have been the varied reactions from people that you've had to talk to?

02:05:13.000 It's not been varied.

02:05:14.000 It's been very supportive.

02:05:17.000 I'm beyond touched by it.

02:05:18.000 I didn't know what I was going to get.

02:05:21.000 I didn't know if I was going to get people who were going to, you know, I kind of walk the line and go, well, I don't know, you know.

02:05:28.000 The one problem I had was with Dan because I felt, you know, Dan knew enough.

02:05:33.000 Dan was provided with enough.

02:05:34.000 We've talked to him enough.

02:05:36.000 Dan?

02:05:36.000 Dan Harris, you know, from 2020. I was like, we can't be impartial about things we shouldn't be impartial about.

02:05:44.000 Like, come on, there's certain things in the world you need to stand up to, right?

02:05:48.000 And I want people to feel that power, whether it's this cult or other cults or a political party or agenda.

02:05:57.000 Like, I feel people have the power to do something.

02:05:59.000 I think that's becoming more and more evident.

02:06:02.000 And I think people need to start standing up for what they believe in.

02:06:05.000 They can do something.

02:06:06.000 And we get asked that all the time.

02:06:07.000 Like, what can I do?

02:06:08.000 I say, call your congressman.

02:06:10.000 Call them and say, I want you to look into this.

02:06:12.000 I want you to do something about this.

02:06:14.000 If you're a lawyer who could do something, you should...

02:06:16.000 Contact us.

02:06:17.000 If you're somebody who has knowledge of something that could help us prosecute, you need to come forward.

02:06:27.000 Because a lot of the stories that we told, the statute of limitations on these abuses, have already passed.

02:06:33.000 And it's their words against, you know, a hundred others.

02:06:36.000 Like let's say we walked in right now to that base that I was telling you about.

02:06:41.000 Most of them wouldn't leave.

02:06:45.000 They don't know what's going on out here, babe.

02:06:48.000 They don't know that what they're being told is not happening.

02:06:52.000 You know what I mean?

02:06:53.000 They don't know.

02:06:55.000 So I would love to do that.

02:06:57.000 I would love to walk into those gates with the FBI and say, hey, you all who want to come with me, come with me now, and we're going to take care of you.

02:07:04.000 And I've asked Mike Rinder that many times, and Mike's like, they won't go with you.

02:07:08.000 I'll stand there and say, what are you talking about?

02:07:11.000 You know you've been beaten.

02:07:12.000 I beat you.

02:07:13.000 You beat me.

02:07:13.000 He beat you.

02:07:14.000 You beat people?

02:07:15.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:07:15.000 Well, yes.

02:07:16.000 You had to beat people?

02:07:17.000 He had to rough some people up, and he admits it in the show.

02:07:20.000 But not you.

02:07:20.000 You didn't beat anybody.

02:07:22.000 Did you have to smack anybody around?

02:07:24.000 Do you mean in general?

02:07:24.000 Because I did.

02:07:25.000 On the show.

02:07:25.000 I've been into a few fights.

02:07:27.000 I've been in clubs.

02:07:28.000 You've been in fights in clubs?

02:07:30.000 But you don't drink.

02:07:32.000 Well, I did drink, Joe.

02:07:34.000 You did bad things while you were in the group?

02:07:36.000 I did, yeah.

02:07:37.000 And you got lit up and cracked some people?

02:07:41.000 Yeah, but that's because I'm from Brooklyn.

02:07:44.000 I blame Brooklyn.

02:07:46.000 Blame Brooklyn. 0.53

02:07:46.000 I'm kidding. 0.53

02:07:47.000 That's strange.

02:07:48.000 I'm kidding.

02:07:49.000 I don't blame anybody but myself and my bad attitude.

02:07:51.000 But did they ever make you smack anybody or anything like that?

02:07:54.000 No, it's not about smacking.

02:07:56.000 But he had to do that, right?

02:07:57.000 He had to beat people?

02:07:58.000 David Miscavige, this is what they have said, and they said it under oath.

02:08:04.000 David Miscavige, under his direction, has.

02:08:08.000 And they have admitted to that.

02:08:10.000 But where they admitted it, there'd be 20 people who said they're lying.

02:08:16.000 Now, is this like a punishment thing?

02:08:18.000 Are they flogging these people?

02:08:19.000 It's like they had a policy called overboarding when the ship was where the Sea Org lived, and they would overboard somebody who was out of line.

02:08:28.000 So throw them overboard?

02:08:29.000 Correct.

02:08:30.000 So you'd toss them in the water?

02:08:31.000 Right.

02:08:32.000 And so now you don't have overboarding because you don't have ship, right? 1.00

02:08:35.000 Well, when you say toss them in the water, they pull them back out or fuck you, swim to shore? 0.99

02:08:41.000 Yeah, I'm sure they threw them a line. 0.99

02:08:42.000 I'm sure, you know, yes, they got back on the boat, but it was a form of punishment.

02:08:46.000 It was called overboarding.

02:08:48.000 Yeah.

02:08:48.000 Now they've just assimilated that to be like, we don't have a boat, so we might as well crack him in the mouth or break his finger.

02:08:54.000 They don't have a boat anymore?

02:08:55.000 No.

02:08:55.000 Well, they have the free winds, but they don't have a seawork ship like they used to.

02:08:59.000 Now they have bases, you know, like Celebrity Center.

02:09:03.000 I don't know.

02:09:03.000 Celebrity Center, they have the mecha.

02:09:05.000 Seems like a big factor.

02:09:06.000 Like, what happened to the boat?

02:09:08.000 Why are you obsessed with the boat?

02:09:09.000 Because I feel like that would be a cool thing to own.

02:09:11.000 Own the old Scientology boat.

02:09:14.000 Go on parties.

02:09:15.000 No, this is where they tell the people about OT6 right in here.

02:09:18.000 Okay.

02:09:19.000 Do you remember when I said that there was the Apollo?

02:09:22.000 Okay, Joe, do we need to...

02:09:24.000 There was a boat that's what started the Sea Orc. 0.93

02:09:27.000 No, I understand.

02:09:28.000 That was called the Apollo.

02:09:29.000 Yeah.

02:09:29.000 Where they give OT8 is called the Freewinds.

02:09:33.000 They still have that.

02:09:34.000 That's a different boat?

02:09:35.000 Yes.

02:09:36.000 Okay.

02:09:36.000 That boat's still around?

02:09:37.000 That boat's still around.

02:09:38.000 Where's that boat?

02:09:39.000 So you can buy that boat.

02:09:40.000 Probably in the Bahamas.

02:09:41.000 Oh, that's where they go?

02:09:42.000 Yeah.

02:09:42.000 It's a good place to party and learn about Thetans.

02:09:45.000 They're not Thetans. 0.97

02:09:46.000 Thetan?

02:09:46.000 And it's not partying.

02:09:48.000 Oh, okay.

02:09:49.000 Yeah.

02:09:49.000 No partying at all?

02:09:50.000 No partying.

02:09:51.000 But when they do have a party, like if they have a big old celebration, like I saw the one celebration- I would go to the gala every year.

02:09:58.000 Oh, there's a gala?

02:09:59.000 Yeah, it's a celebrity center.

02:10:01.000 And what happens there?

02:10:02.000 We listen to speeches about how much Scientology is accepted in the community by the LAPD. The LAPD talks?

02:10:09.000 Uh-huh.

02:10:10.000 LAPD. So they contribute a bunch of money to the LAPD. Yes.

02:10:14.000 They started a thing called the Police Activities Fund.

02:10:19.000 I contributed to it and I helped it.

02:10:21.000 They put on a show for the kids every Christmas at Celebrity Center and they give the money, the proceeds to what they created which is called the Police Activities League.

02:10:32.000 And they present the LAPD with money for children.

02:10:37.000 Well, that sounds great.

02:10:38.000 It's great.

02:10:38.000 But listen, it's purposeful.

02:10:41.000 There's a policy called safe-pointing the community, and that's what they're doing.

02:10:46.000 And I did it.

02:10:46.000 So I know what it's about, right?

02:10:49.000 You appear as if your intentions are pure so that you then have maybe favors like this happening where somebody files a police report and you get screwed with. 0.81

02:11:00.000 God.

02:11:03.000 Where do you think this is going?

02:11:05.000 Like, where do you anticipate your battle with this?

02:11:08.000 I don't have a battle.

02:11:10.000 I hope that...

02:11:11.000 But you kind of do.

02:11:13.000 Um, no.

02:11:14.000 Because I... Joe, if you receive the calls that I receive, like, when I'm not working on the show, because, you know, I'm the executive producer of this show, so...

02:11:25.000 They're not safe to just call anybody.

02:11:28.000 They're not going to call A&E. It's me and Mike.

02:11:30.000 We're the ones who have to vet these stories.

02:11:35.000 People trust us because they know we're telling the truth.

02:11:38.000 They know that we have their best interest at heart in telling the story correctly.

02:11:45.000 When you talk to these people, when I talk to them behind the scenes, it takes every piece of me not to break down.

02:11:52.000 I have to be kind of How many people are in it now?

02:12:07.000 How many people are in it now?

02:12:09.000 Maybe 10,000 worldwide.

02:12:11.000 That's it?

02:12:11.000 Well, it gives the appearance because I thought...

02:12:16.000 Like at these big events at the Shrine Auditorium that they have every year, right?

02:12:21.000 They show what Scientology is doing and they use things like hundreds of millions and these really kind of electrifying statistics, right?

02:12:29.000 And we bought this building and we bought that building and that would indicate growth, right?

02:12:35.000 That's the subliminal message to you, you know?

02:12:37.000 There's people in there, but they are just buildings.

02:12:41.000 But you believe that those buildings are being built.

02:12:43.000 So they just bought some buildings.

02:12:45.000 Well, they have to for tax purposes, right?

02:12:47.000 And the appearance that it's growing.

02:12:49.000 But they have to offload some of this money.

02:12:53.000 Do you have an end game with all this?

02:12:55.000 My end game is just to tell these people stories.

02:12:59.000 To validate that their pain is real.

02:13:02.000 I'm not going to let the church bully them or Scientology bully them into believing that they made it up.

02:13:07.000 That they're out to get money.

02:13:10.000 You don't make money doing this show.

02:13:12.000 Right.

02:13:14.000 And how long are you doing it for?

02:13:15.000 I don't know.

02:13:17.000 I don't know.

02:13:18.000 How many episodes have you done?

02:13:19.000 We've only done eight and then two specials.

02:13:22.000 You know, the Reddit specials that we've done.

02:13:25.000 But, you know, there's a whole other...

02:13:30.000 There's a lot of stories to be told.

02:13:32.000 I didn't even scratch the surface.

02:13:34.000 So how many stories are we going to tell?

02:13:36.000 I don't know.

02:13:36.000 What's my endgame?

02:13:37.000 My endgame is that these stories get out there, that people get incensed enough, where this church, well, I have to call you a church, this organization is held responsible for the things that they have done.

02:13:50.000 And they stop destroying families.

02:13:52.000 I mean, there's so many tears to it that I don't know where it ends.

02:13:56.000 I don't know where it ends.

02:13:58.000 So there's no plan as far as how long to continue this?

02:14:01.000 I don't have a plan other than you're going to stop hurting people.

02:14:03.000 That's it.

02:14:04.000 You're going to take some responsibility for what you've done.

02:14:07.000 These stories are real.

02:14:09.000 These are not liars.

02:14:10.000 People don't say they were hurt and molested.

02:14:13.000 They don't go on television for fame.

02:14:16.000 They don't get money from doing that.

02:14:18.000 They don't get money from doing that.

02:14:19.000 Who wants to go on television and say, I was coerced into getting an abortion? 0.96

02:14:24.000 Who does that for fame? 0.83

02:14:26.000 Really, Joe?

02:14:28.000 I was hit.

02:14:29.000 I was abused. 0.97

02:14:30.000 I was sexually molested. 0.94

02:14:31.000 I allowed this to happen.

02:14:32.000 These things are not easy for people to admit to.

02:14:35.000 Right.

02:14:36.000 You know, you think it's easy for me to say I was, you know, I believed in this my whole life?

02:14:41.000 That my mother believed in it her whole life?

02:14:43.000 Like, we gave our life to this thing.

02:14:46.000 Well, you're very fortunate your mother made it out, too.

02:14:49.000 So fortunate.

02:14:50.000 God, I've been here a long time.

02:14:51.000 I should go.

02:14:51.000 Yeah.

02:14:52.000 And I'm sweating now.

02:14:52.000 That's okay.

02:14:53.000 We'll wrap this up.

02:14:54.000 You know how I feel about sweat.

02:14:56.000 Like, I can't even wait to get this shirt off that I'm sweating.

02:14:58.000 You don't like sweat?

02:14:59.000 Well, it depends.

02:15:00.000 I mean, if...

02:15:01.000 Well, I do like sweat, but I don't like it when I'm dressed.

02:15:04.000 Okay.

02:15:05.000 All right. 0.97

02:15:06.000 You like naked sweating. 0.95

02:15:07.000 Congratulations on that. 0.69

02:15:10.000 With clothes.

02:15:10.000 But no, I think you're very brave.

02:15:12.000 I think what you're doing, not just in...

02:15:14.000 It's like...

02:15:15.000 What you're doing with your show, but the way you're admitting your own personal demons and the battles that you're having with your own mind, trying to sort of reformulate your view of the world and figure out who you are.

02:15:31.000 Thank you.

02:15:33.000 It's very important.

02:15:34.000 It's very important for people to hear.

02:15:35.000 Thank you, baby.

02:15:36.000 And honestly, I really thank you for having me because it doesn't come without some repercussions to you.

02:15:43.000 I'm sure.

02:15:44.000 But I want you to know that I appreciate it.

02:15:46.000 I really do.

02:15:47.000 Listen, my pleasure.

02:15:48.000 And let's say hi again and not over some wackiness like this after all these years.

02:15:54.000 It's been funny.

02:15:55.000 I haven't seen you in so long.

02:15:56.000 Listen, I gotta tell you, the seven minutes before we started this, we had a very funny conversation.

02:16:01.000 It was very funny.

02:16:02.000 Yeah.

02:16:02.000 No, seriously.

02:16:03.000 Would you talk about it on the air?

02:16:05.000 Would I? Yeah, for sure.

02:16:06.000 No, yeah.

02:16:07.000 Oh, yeah, for sure.

02:16:08.000 But I think there's something there.

02:16:10.000 I don't know.

02:16:10.000 There's something funny about what we're talking about.

02:16:12.000 Now everybody's going to say, what was it?

02:16:13.000 What was it?

02:16:14.000 What was it, Joe?

02:16:15.000 Smells and things.

02:16:17.000 Oh, smells and things.

02:16:19.000 Periods.

02:16:21.000 Good night, everybody.

02:16:22.000 Leah Remini.

02:16:23.000 Your show, when is it on?

02:16:25.000 Well, it's done now.

02:16:26.000 Yeah, but what...

02:16:27.000 Oh, I think you can see it online at A&E. Well, it's on A&E all the time.

02:16:32.000 They show it constantly.

02:16:33.000 It was on just a couple nights ago.

02:16:34.000 Yes, and I'm so glad. 0.99

02:16:36.000 Yeah, they're airing the shit out of it.

02:16:37.000 So, if people want to follow any of this, is there a website they can go to? 0.89

02:16:43.000 Yes, I think they can go to A&E. God, I should know these things, right?

02:16:46.000 They'll find it.

02:16:46.000 Google it.

02:16:47.000 Google it, folks.

02:16:48.000 Thank you.

02:16:48.000 Thank you very much.

02:16:49.000 Bye, everybody.

02:16:52.000 Was that good?

02:16:53.000 That was great.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 30, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #908 - Leah Remini

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Transcript