The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #921 - Dominick Cruz

00:00:00.000 These are sick.

00:00:02.000 It's like those MREs.

00:00:03.000 Two, one, bam.

00:00:06.000 Yeah, Dominic Cruz is sitting here.

00:00:07.000 He's looking at this thing called Green Belly Meal, Meal to Go.

00:00:11.000 The guy who created this is like this long-distance hiker.

00:00:14.000 Like, he does those...

00:00:15.000 Like, do you know that trail?

00:00:17.000 What is it called?

00:00:17.000 The Appalachian Trail that goes from...

00:00:19.000 I know of it.

00:00:20.000 You know of it, yeah.

00:00:21.000 What does it go from, like, Georgia to Maine or something crazy like that?

00:00:24.000 And these...

00:00:25.000 People walk it.

00:00:27.000 It takes like six months.

00:00:29.000 Yeah, I'm into stuff like that, but that's like a whole different part of your life I feel like you get to when you do stuff like that.

00:00:35.000 Well, you gotta have a real commitment because you're not doing anything but that for six months.

00:00:39.000 Yeah, it's a different lifestyle change.

00:00:41.000 It's like a different time in your life, I feel, when you do something like that.

00:00:44.000 Yeah, but being a fighter, do you feel like you're pretty limited as to what you can do outside of fighting?

00:00:51.000 As far as you're always recovering from training, you're always involved in something related to either promotion or preparation?

00:01:02.000 Yeah, agreed.

00:01:04.000 I mean, I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

00:01:07.000 How many of these things have you done with pro athletes?

00:01:09.000 I've done a lot.

00:01:10.000 You know that it's all or nothing.

00:01:12.000 Because everybody's so good that if you don't invest every ounce of yourself into something, there's somebody else that is, in my opinion.

00:01:21.000 So it's like, you have to do that, or else you get passed by.

00:01:24.000 Yeah, and you also feel like you have to be super objective, too, about where you stand and where your skills are at.

00:01:31.000 Of course.

00:01:32.000 Because you're either at a point of constant improvement or you're at some sort of stagnation or a decline.

00:01:38.000 Yes, I think so.

00:01:41.000 But then that question always comes to mind according to win and loss ratio, which doesn't always tell the truth.

00:01:48.000 Right.

00:01:48.000 Because that's not always the fact.

00:01:49.000 It could just be a bad night and a good matchup and they had a game plan or...

00:01:53.000 You lost and now you're going to sit and go to the drawing board and say that everything was off because of one loss?

00:01:59.000 Right.

00:01:59.000 Doesn't really make sense to me.

00:02:00.000 So it's kind of a mixture.

00:02:02.000 You've got to find the happy medium.

00:02:03.000 It comes down to trust in the people around you.

00:02:08.000 Not having nothing but yes men around you.

00:02:10.000 And I feel like as long as you have a good solid base of people that give the truth to you… Then you don't have to think with your emotion and you can think with logic.

00:02:19.000 I think it's important to have those people around you so you don't steer off the course.

00:02:23.000 Right, because even if you do have a loss, it's not saying that everything is off, but certainly something wasn't adequate in that particular matchup.

00:02:35.000 So you're just getting off of the second loss ever of your mixed martial arts career.

00:02:39.000 The first one, you got caught by Uriah with a guillotine, and then the second one, this Cody No Love fight.

00:02:45.000 What are your thoughts on it now, having time to reflect and look back?

00:02:51.000 Well, my thoughts are...

00:02:54.000 I pretty much laid it all out right away because I wanted to just do that.

00:03:08.000 I literally laid every ounce of every thought I had at that moment out there for everybody to hear at a point where I'm very vulnerable.

00:03:16.000 And I did that on purpose to show that...

00:03:19.000 We're not all, you know, the same.

00:03:23.000 Some people don't want to show their vulnerability.

00:03:26.000 Some people want to just be seen as only perfect, only tough, only strong.

00:03:30.000 And really the truth of what makes the strongest people in the world is their vulnerability early until they learn how to be tough.

00:03:36.000 And, you know, losing is part of that lesson, unfortunately.

00:03:40.000 For everybody and being unsuccessful is part of that lesson for people just as much as losing so it's like you do what you can with it and that's how I feel now is like I do what I can with it and the only way to make the best of it is to accept it right the second it happens understand that That's just the way it is.

00:04:01.000 That's the way that this has been slated for this portion of my life and just move forward.

00:04:06.000 And as long as you embrace it, don't make excuses for it, and then you can actually look at what you did wrong and take it in.

00:04:13.000 The second you make an excuse, the second you say, well, I was a little off here, a little off there because of this, this, and this, is the second you allow your mind to go into a path of, well...

00:04:24.000 It wasn't in my control, which means you're not really dealing with the problems at hand, I don't think.

00:04:29.000 I think you're kind of bypassing the problems at hand when you do that.

00:04:32.000 And then you can't grow from the experience.

00:04:34.000 So what's the point of a loss if you're not going to grow from it and get the most out of it?

00:04:37.000 Now it's just useless if you don't accept it.

00:04:40.000 Yeah, there's a real instinct that many fighters show, like almost immediately after a loss, to go right into what was wrong with the camp, what was wrong with an injury, what they could have done differently, personal problems.

00:04:53.000 And that really can wreck havoc with your mind.

00:04:56.000 Correct.

00:04:57.000 I agree.

00:04:57.000 I think more than wreaking havoc with your mind, I think it just shows How long it's going to take for them to get over the loss.

00:05:04.000 I mean, that's the thing.

00:05:05.000 The second you just say it, lay it all out there, and everybody knows, including yourself, the next step is growth.

00:05:13.000 It's no longer stagnant and sitting and feeling the loss and trying to accept it.

00:05:18.000 I've already accepted it.

00:05:19.000 I accepted it the second I shook his hand in that octagon and they raised his hand as the winner.

00:05:28.000 I mean, am I really going to sit here and make excuses?

00:05:31.000 Because let's say on the judges scorecard, I had some mindset that's like, oh, I shouldn't have lost the decision or maybe this, maybe that.

00:05:40.000 It's like, what's the point of that?

00:05:43.000 Because in the end, it's already been chalked.

00:05:45.000 It's already there.

00:05:46.000 It's written down.

00:05:47.000 Yeah, it's over.

00:05:48.000 Regardless of what anybody says, that's not leaving that piece of paper.

00:05:52.000 So what's the point of really saying all this stuff, letting people argue that, well, you could have won here, you could have won.

00:05:57.000 Where is the argument anymore?

00:05:59.000 Where's the logic in that?

00:06:00.000 Where's the point in all that?

00:06:02.000 And I'm just sick and tired of excuses.

00:06:04.000 I've fought so many years, winning so many years, hearing so many excuses about why I beat people.

00:06:09.000 And I wanted to set a perimeter right off the bat that I'm not that person.

00:06:13.000 Now, you're getting really well known as an MMA analyst, and I think you do an amazing job on Fox.

00:06:19.000 I think you're one of the best guys in the world at it.

00:06:20.000 You're really, really good at it.

00:06:21.000 But one of the things that people are getting a chance to see because of that is how your mind works and how much thought you put into not just fighting itself, but the whole process.

00:06:32.000 The whole process of preparation and mindset while the competition is going on.

00:06:39.000 And that's also being reflected right now in the way you express how you get over a loss.

00:06:45.000 Where have you learned to think like this?

00:06:49.000 Well, my mom is a big reason for that, I would say, early on.

00:06:55.000 She just always forced me to deal with the things I didn't want to deal with.

00:06:58.000 And not just deal with them, but look at them in the eye and talk about it.

00:07:02.000 Like what kind of stuff?

00:07:03.000 Anything.

00:07:04.000 Like you steal a packet of gum from the store and you walk out with it and you're...

00:07:08.000 I'm seven years old and you get home and you're eating a piece of gum and your mom goes, I didn't buy that for you, where'd you get that gum?

00:07:13.000 And we drive back with the gum in my mouth, put it in the wrapper, show the person at the front and that's not enough because I embarrassed the cash register so I gotta apologize to them and then I gotta go to the owner of the store, the manager, and apologize to them and then...

00:07:29.000 Might have to go paint a wall for him to make up for the piece of gum that I... I mean, it goes all the way down to that.

00:07:34.000 My mom has been that way since I can remember to where.

00:07:38.000 There's just...

00:07:38.000 She would never, ever let me make an excuse for anything I ever did.

00:07:44.000 Ever.

00:07:45.000 And I used to get so frustrated with her because she would also never really get mad.

00:07:49.000 She would never really raise her voice.

00:07:51.000 She would never really show a whole lot of emotion.

00:07:53.000 She would literally say, I'm not going to yell.

00:07:55.000 I'm not going to scream.

00:07:56.000 I'm not going to get angry.

00:07:57.000 I'm not going to give you that power.

00:07:59.000 But that's one.

00:08:00.000 And that meant I was getting one whooping when I got home when I did something wrong.

00:08:04.000 And so now I got to sit and think about that for the next five hours until we get home.

00:08:08.000 And then she takes me into a room and she sits me down with no anger.

00:08:12.000 Everything's understood.

00:08:13.000 And she says, do you know why we're here? 0.99

00:08:15.000 And she explains to me why we're here and why I'm in trouble and why I'm getting smacked on the ass with this breadboard. 0.99

00:08:22.000 And she just... 0.99

00:08:23.000 There was never any escaping anything.

00:08:26.000 Ever.

00:08:27.000 So it's like...

00:08:28.000 It put me in this weird mindset where I just I don't make excuses and anybody who makes excuses I call them out on it because it's old.

00:08:37.000 It's annoying.

00:08:38.000 It's flawed in my opinion.

00:08:41.000 It's just weak.

00:08:42.000 That's a great lesson.

00:08:44.000 That's a great way to be raised to your mom.

00:08:47.000 I'm not perfect.

00:08:48.000 Don't get me wrong.

00:08:49.000 I'm not saying I do this every time.

00:08:51.000 It's just something that's like made me You asked how I got that in my mind and it just, it wired me a little different.

00:08:58.000 My grandma's pretty crazy on that too.

00:09:02.000 So between my grandmother and my mom who helped raise me because my dad wasn't around so much, those two molded me into this weird being.

00:09:13.000 Do you think they could have got through it without beating you? 0.99

00:09:16.000 Without the paddle for the ass? 1.00

00:09:17.000 No, absolutely not. 1.00

00:09:18.000 You think that was imperative?

00:09:19.000 It was me and my brother.

00:09:20.000 We were just little mutants.

00:09:24.000 In the trailer park, we'd be fighting.

00:09:27.000 My mom's at work.

00:09:28.000 We lived in a trailer across the street from my grandmother.

00:09:31.000 And it was like $400 a month, you know, to live in this trailer.

00:09:35.000 It's one bedroom, single wide.

00:09:36.000 She would come, when we would fight, we'd hear the door open and my grandma would be at the door. 0.99

00:09:40.000 And me and my brother, because you could hear us slamming into the floor because it's echoes from the bottom of the trailer, right?

00:09:45.000 And so she'd run across the street and oh no, we knew we were in trouble when grandma came over. 0.94

00:09:50.000 It was bad news.

00:09:51.000 So, I don't know, it's just a weird upbringing kind of to an extent.

00:09:55.000 I think everybody got raised by their family, but by my mom and my grandmother.

00:09:59.000 It just put a different mentality in me.

00:10:01.000 My grandmother is a very tough individual. 0.90

00:10:03.000 She's been through a lot.

00:10:04.000 Now, when you started fighting, how did they approach it?

00:10:08.000 Yeah, that's another odd thing.

00:10:10.000 My mom was just all support.

00:10:14.000 I was going to college when I just started.

00:10:18.000 I was coaching a local high school, and one of the kids that I was coaching, I was 19 years old at this point.

00:10:24.000 And I just graduated high school and started coaching a local high school team because I wanted to compete.

00:10:28.000 Wrestling, correct.

00:10:29.000 And I didn't get into college like I wanted to to wrestle and didn't do all these things.

00:10:33.000 So I just needed to compete.

00:10:34.000 So I got in the room and started coaching these kids.

00:10:37.000 Well, they're my age.

00:10:38.000 They're 18. I'm 19. I just graduated.

00:10:40.000 So we become friends.

00:10:42.000 One of these guys invites me to a gym he goes to.

00:10:44.000 I jump in there and start training, right?

00:10:45.000 So during this time...

00:10:48.000 My mom, I'm going to school.

00:10:50.000 So I'm working three jobs.

00:10:52.000 You know, I work at Sherwin-Williams.

00:10:53.000 I'm a janitor at the gym.

00:10:55.000 And then I'm coaching this high school wrestling team.

00:10:57.000 And then I'm going to school at night and I'm training in between that.

00:11:01.000 So this is what I'm doing in Tucson.

00:11:03.000 And during this time, I told my mom, you know, I'm just so tired of school.

00:11:08.000 I go to night school after my three jobs.

00:11:10.000 I go three jobs and then I go to night school at 8 p.m.

00:11:12.000 and I'm just wore out.

00:11:13.000 I'm sitting in Spanish class one day trying to learn what I've been learning in high school in Spanish class.

00:11:19.000 I'm like, why am I paying for this school when I just did this class in high school and now I'm paying for it to get an associate's degree to go to another four years in college that I'm going to be in debt for?

00:11:28.000 Like, what am I doing?

00:11:29.000 I don't want to be here.

00:11:30.000 I wasn't happy in school after all my days at work.

00:11:35.000 So I said, you know, the only time I felt free and happy was in the gym.

00:11:39.000 It's the only time I could talk and laugh and smile and be myself, hurting other people, punching things, kicking things, yelling at things, telling people how I felt.

00:11:47.000 And then if they had a problem, we could fight about it.

00:11:49.000 I was at peace there.

00:11:51.000 So I just stopped going to school and said, Mom, I'm going to start training to become a fighter.

00:11:56.000 I said, They got the Ultimate Fighter going on.

00:11:59.000 It's a big thing.

00:12:00.000 It's growing.

00:12:00.000 Now's the time.

00:12:01.000 If I'm going to do it, I need to go all in.

00:12:02.000 She said, Okay.

00:12:03.000 You don't need to go to school to be successful.

00:12:05.000 You don't need to go to college.

00:12:07.000 Follow your heart and you will be successful.

00:12:09.000 It's a guarantee.

00:12:10.000 And she was right.

00:12:12.000 Wow.

00:12:14.000 That's fascinating.

00:12:15.000 My mom has a weird, spiritual, emotional...

00:12:20.000 Way of talking, explaining, and getting through to me that can't be explained until you meet somebody like that.

00:12:27.000 Well, also, no one is ever going to be able to recreate that because she made you.

00:12:32.000 Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

00:12:34.000 I mean, I think everybody believes their mom has their own.

00:12:38.000 I mean, moms are special.

00:12:40.000 We all know that.

00:12:41.000 But every person has their own way that they were raised and brought up and then they pass that on to their child.

00:12:47.000 My mom had a hard life. 0.99

00:12:49.000 So I think she's just so wise that she passed a lot of A lot of wisdom off to me young because she just growing up and raising us broke like she did by herself I think just taught her so much that she didn't want us to have to live any kind of struggle life like that.

00:13:07.000 So she made us learn the hard way with her instead of her taking everything and not teaching us anything.

00:13:13.000 We lived it with her and grew in the experience with her and then that got added to my life and what I wanted to do moving forward.

00:13:20.000 Now, you developed a really unusual fighting style.

00:13:24.000 I mean, I think I've said about you that one of the more unusual things about your style is that I could watch you like as a silhouette.

00:13:34.000 Someone could show me a silhouette of you moving around.

00:13:37.000 I go, oh, that's Dominic Cruz.

00:13:39.000 There's very few people that you would say that about, like, where you would instantaneously recognize their movements.

00:13:44.000 Like, your movements are very unusual, very difficult to pattern, and they're not really indicative of, like, a style.

00:13:53.000 Like, you know, there's the Muay Thai style.

00:13:55.000 People have that light front leg.

00:13:56.000 There's the karate style, like, you know, Wonderboy Thompson.

00:13:59.000 There's a bunch of styles where you go, oh, I see what this guy's doing.

00:14:01.000 Your style is very uniquely yours.

00:14:06.000 What sort of caused that?

00:14:09.000 Where'd that come from?

00:14:10.000 It's a mixture of things as...

00:14:12.000 I mean, I've been fighting since as long as the Diaz brothers.

00:14:14.000 I started when I was 19 years old back in 2005. And I've been doing it since then.

00:14:21.000 So that's part of it, is that just years and years of fighting and facing different people and seeing what the issues were.

00:14:27.000 But more than that, it was built around the fact that I knew whether I knew I was ahead or not, my mindset said I have to fight, do something different, because this is a new sport with new rules and different equipment than has ever been seen in the history of this world.

00:14:46.000 So that means there's four-ounce gloves, We're using kicks, knees, elbows, and hands, everything, right?

00:14:51.000 All eight limbs.

00:14:55.000 So I said I need to make sure that I'm not taking damage.

00:14:59.000 As long as I'm not taking damage, I should win.

00:15:02.000 I gotta be hard to hit and my defense needs to be flawless with these size gloves.

00:15:05.000 It's not going to be the same as boxing.

00:15:07.000 I can't just sit here and cover like this because my gloves are a quarter of the size.

00:15:10.000 Things peek in and I learned that real quick.

00:15:13.000 And so I said, alright, so I need to move nonstop.

00:15:15.000 I can't sit still like I do in boxing or kickboxing because you're going to get taken down as well.

00:15:20.000 So that's where my mind started changing is with the takedown.

00:15:24.000 That's where I knew I really had to do something different is in no striking sport on earth is there a takedown involved.

00:15:31.000 So that means that I need to attack on a different plane.

00:15:36.000 And that means I need to not be down the center line.

00:15:38.000 As long as I fight not down the center line, it takes away As long as I don't fight on the center line all the time, it takes away almost all weapons from all styles.

00:15:50.000 Boxing is probably the one style that flows most off the center line.

00:15:55.000 But when we're talking about Muay Thai, or we're talking about wrestling, or we're talking about Judo, or we're talking about almost every other martial art, they attack down a straight line.

00:16:05.000 And so I knew I could take away most of their weapons just by changing the plane that I fought on.

00:16:12.000 If I fought on a different plane than them, then they would not have answers for the plane that I'm fighting on because everything they do is on that line.

00:16:18.000 So instead of fighting them and their style, I fought the lines that they're fighting on.

00:16:22.000 And then that kind of changed things mixed with the defense.

00:16:25.000 Well, I've always enjoyed watching you fight, and I've always enjoyed explaining how you fight to people that have never seen martial arts or don't understand it.

00:16:33.000 Because for people on the outside, maybe someone who's not a fan or never did any martial arts training, they look at it like just violence.

00:16:40.000 You know, they see guys just beating the shit out of each other.

00:16:42.000 And the way I try to describe it to a friend once, I said, think about it this way. 0.62

00:16:48.000 It's a lot like a conversation.

00:16:51.000 And the more words you have at your disposal, the more verbal memory you have, the more used to stringing together sentences you are, the more fluently the conversation is going to come out of your mouth.

00:17:01.000 The more it's going to flow.

00:17:02.000 Right. 0.99

00:17:03.000 And when you're watching, and I'll show someone like you, when you're trying to have, you know, let's call it a conversation, trying to have a conversation with Dominic Cruz inside the Octagon, You don't know where the fuck he's going.

00:17:14.000 Like, you're setting up so many weird angles and so much weird movements and so many false entries, and there's so much going on that you're, in a lot of ways, you're overloading a person's reactions. 0.78

00:17:26.000 You're overloading their mind.

00:17:29.000 That is partially what I'm trying to do.

00:17:31.000 Yes, I'd agree.

00:17:32.000 Now, you're starting to see that over time there's an answer for every style.

00:17:36.000 There's an answer for everything.

00:17:38.000 And that's the fun of this thing is that it's not always stagnant.

00:17:40.000 It's not always the same.

00:17:42.000 And there is an answer to everything.

00:17:44.000 And then you've got to adjust.

00:17:46.000 So that's what I'm built on is adjustments.

00:17:50.000 My whole game is built on adjustments.

00:17:52.000 So it can always change and always look different because every round I come out with a different adjustment off of what you did to me.

00:17:57.000 And now you're fighting a different guy every round.

00:18:00.000 You just don't know it.

00:18:02.000 But that comes from fakes and seeing what they want on you.

00:18:07.000 And that comes from their game plan.

00:18:10.000 It's a whole mixture of reads in there.

00:18:11.000 And that's something that you either have or you don't have.

00:18:14.000 Somebody like Anderson Silva can make reads extremely quickly.

00:18:18.000 And that's what's made him so successful.

00:18:20.000 Demetrius Johnson reads extremely quickly.

00:18:22.000 Makes him successful.

00:18:23.000 The best in the world adjusts.

00:18:26.000 And the best...

00:18:28.000 For me, the best in the world aren't the ones who just win.

00:18:31.000 It's the ones who win and stay on top for a long period of time.

00:18:35.000 Right.

00:18:36.000 Because now you don't just have a style to win a fight.

00:18:39.000 You have a style to stay winning.

00:18:41.000 Which means that your style hits so many different avenues that you can compete with all these different styles no matter what they match you up against until...

00:18:51.000 Now my style, I built it so that no matter which style you try to throw at me, it was going to give it a problem.

00:18:58.000 And that was the basis that I wanted to create when I fought, every single time I fought somebody.

00:19:03.000 It was, it doesn't matter what your gift is, the planes that I'm going to fight you on make it impossible for your gifts to be your gifts anymore.

00:19:10.000 Now, I've seen you practice, and I've seen your footwork drills, and I've seen, you know, a lot of your steps and the different various entries you have to techniques.

00:19:19.000 Are these...

00:19:21.000 Moves that you've learned from somewhere?

00:19:23.000 Have you acquired them from other martial arts?

00:19:26.000 Have you sort of adjusted them and adapted them?

00:19:28.000 Or did you figure them out your own?

00:19:30.000 It's been a mixture.

00:19:31.000 Working with Eric Del Ferro was a huge step because I had a lot of natural...

00:19:34.000 He's one of the best coaches in the sport and one of the most underappreciated guys because he doesn't blow his own horn.

00:19:38.000 That's why I love him.

00:19:40.000 I like the coaches that don't need the pats on the back for themselves.

00:19:44.000 They're about the athlete.

00:19:45.000 Eric is about every athlete he's ever coached.

00:19:47.000 He's not about himself.

00:19:48.000 He's a great corner man, too.

00:19:50.000 When he starts talking in the corner, he's outstanding.

00:19:52.000 He knows what he's doing.

00:19:52.000 He's been in this sport 20-plus years.

00:19:56.000 The bigger thing that Eric doesn't get credit for is his understanding of the psychology that goes into preparing somebody to win a fight.

00:20:03.000 You could have all the tools around that person.

00:20:06.000 They could be the best human being on earth.

00:20:08.000 But if their mind is not pieced together, the psychological pieces are not there, you're not going to be able to trigger them and get them in the fight when you need to.

00:20:15.000 Jeremy Stevens is a great example of somebody like that.

00:20:18.000 Sometimes you gotta like... 0.97

00:20:21.000 Get crazy with that dude in the corner and even slap him around a little bit maybe and he just goes and he'll kill somebody.

00:20:27.000 It's like there's a psychological thing about certain athletes that you have to be able to touch on.

00:20:32.000 Same with Greg Jackson is another guy who can do that.

00:20:34.000 And that's what makes a good coach on that night, a good corner man on that night.

00:20:38.000 Not just what you did for eight weeks holding pads and patting the guy on the back and wiping the sweat off their shoulders and You know, doing interviews and looking famous with them.

00:20:49.000 Like, what are you doing to make sure this person wins on that night?

00:20:52.000 Not, what are you doing to make sure you look good in this person's corner while he wins?

00:20:57.000 Right.

00:20:57.000 And that's something that I've run into a lot with people, is people a lot want to associate themselves with you when you're winning and not actually be there for you, but be there so they look good in your corner while you win.

00:21:08.000 And those are the people you've got to cut out.

00:21:09.000 Those are the yes men.

00:21:10.000 And those are the ones you've got to be careful with.

00:21:13.000 Eric is the opposite of that.

00:21:15.000 And he's somebody that's why I stick with him.

00:21:17.000 He's somebody I can trust.

00:21:18.000 He understands my psychology.

00:21:19.000 He understands the emotional rollercoaster of outside life, personal life, fight life, everything mixed together.

00:21:26.000 We've gone through this together.

00:21:29.000 And then he's a trustworthy person.

00:21:31.000 There are not a lot of people you can trust in this industry these days, or in fighting in general, boxing or MMA, so it's hard.

00:21:38.000 He knows his stuff, and he is underrated, and I think the fact that he doesn't toot his own horn, he doesn't get on these interviews, it does hurt him a little.

00:21:46.000 But...

00:21:48.000 That was what was hurting me early in my career too.

00:21:50.000 We're a lot alike.

00:21:51.000 And I had to say, if I'm going to make a living, if I'm going to really do this fight thing, I better start stepping this media thing up.

00:21:57.000 I better start stepping up this portion that we're doing right here and figure out a way to make it.

00:22:02.000 Because this is part of the sport.

00:22:04.000 You're no longer always fighting who deserves, who's the best in the world.

00:22:08.000 You're now fighting in this era.

00:22:10.000 The best superstar, not just the best athlete.

00:22:14.000 Right.

00:22:15.000 And so you've got to be a happy mixture.

00:22:16.000 And when you can figure that out, you start piecing your career together.

00:22:20.000 You look at Eric Del Ferro hasn't figured that out.

00:22:22.000 He doesn't want to.

00:22:22.000 He doesn't care about it.

00:22:23.000 And so you don't know about him.

00:22:25.000 But you should.

00:22:26.000 He doesn't have to.

00:22:26.000 The best people know about it.

00:22:28.000 Know about him, rather.

00:22:30.000 Now, that's an interesting thing you put that up, too, because it seems like...

00:22:34.000 I mean, it doesn't just seem like it.

00:22:36.000 It is.

00:22:36.000 But fighters in general and trainers almost all at one point in time were fighters or at least martial artists.

00:22:43.000 A lot of them are broken people looking to rebuild.

00:22:47.000 And that's what martial arts does for them. 0.69

00:22:49.000 That's what fighting and competing does for them. 0.63

00:22:51.000 It gives them an identity.

00:22:52.000 It gives them a sense of purpose and a sense of worth.

00:22:55.000 And that those types of people often time get very selfish and it's very difficult to find someone that you trust enough to let them all in and then once they do they're intensely connected.

00:23:09.000 Correct.

00:23:10.000 You know I mean the bonds that you have With people that you train with and people that you spar with on a regular basis or people that you've competed with and gone to places with, I don't think people that have never experienced such an intense competition will ever truly understand that kind of a bond that people share.

00:23:28.000 I agree.

00:23:29.000 And ironically, just by chance, pretty much every one of the closest friends in my life, I have fought almost to a bloody death.

00:23:38.000 And that's what's so crazy.

00:23:39.000 Well, you know them, yeah.

00:23:41.000 I know them.

00:23:41.000 And you can't lie to me.

00:23:43.000 Yeah.

00:23:43.000 There's nothing you're going to lie to me about.

00:23:45.000 Because if you lie to me, I'm going to see you on Monday, idiot. 1.00

00:23:47.000 And we're going to see what you're made of. 1.00

00:23:49.000 Well, you'll know anyway.

00:23:50.000 I mean, without even knowing what they're made of, you'll know they're lying.

00:23:53.000 But it's different when you fight somebody.

00:23:56.000 You literally know what they're made of when you see the look in their eye.

00:24:00.000 They say what they say and they do what they do and then they go and they fight and they don't say what they say and they don't do what they do.

00:24:06.000 And that's just fighting.

00:24:07.000 And that's what's so refreshing about it to me.

00:24:09.000 Yeah, well, the psychological aspect of it, I mean, you know, who was it that said this, that fighting is 90% mental and the other 10% is in your head?

00:24:19.000 I forget who said that.

00:24:20.000 I don't remember either, but I've heard it.

00:24:22.000 That's a great quote.

00:24:23.000 I don't remember who said it, but I mean...

00:24:25.000 I believe it with all my heart.

00:24:26.000 There's so many people out there that are so incredibly physically talented.

00:24:29.000 And how many gym assassins do you know that, for whatever reason, they just can't put it together?

00:24:36.000 When the referee says, fighter, are you ready?

00:24:38.000 Fighter, are you ready?

00:24:39.000 Go! 0.95

00:24:39.000 They just are a fraction of who they really are. 0.95

00:24:43.000 Well, just really break down and think about what happens to the ones that do make it and then have to deal with the media and the opinions.

00:24:52.000 I really feel like athletes, the biggest hurdle is the fact that we're willing to actually just get up there and say we might win, we might lose.

00:25:01.000 Right.

00:25:01.000 And just put that out there and say, are you willing to put yourself out there like that?

00:25:05.000 Are you willing to embarrass yourself if you do lose?

00:25:09.000 Are you willing to...

00:25:11.000 Deal with the media if you win for 10 years straight and then lose and then now you're the worst guy that's ever been seen in the sport or the worst female that's ever been seen in the sport.

00:25:21.000 You didn't even belong there.

00:25:23.000 Are you able to deal with that?

00:25:25.000 That's the question.

00:25:26.000 That's what being an athlete is.

00:25:28.000 Not...

00:25:28.000 Well, that's what being a fighter is.

00:25:29.000 Yeah.

00:25:30.000 Big difference between losing a basketball game.

00:25:32.000 It's true. 1.00

00:25:32.000 You lose a basketball game and people might think you're a fucking loser or a scrub, but it's nothing like the shit that I see fighters face online. 1.00

00:25:39.000 No, I mean, just look at... 1.00

00:25:41.000 I gotta bring Ronda Rousey up because it's heartbreaking for me as an athlete.

00:25:46.000 I know what she's feeling.

00:25:47.000 I know what she's going through.

00:25:49.000 And as a female, it's even on another level. 0.52

00:25:52.000 I can't really imagine that.

00:25:54.000 It's a different level of scrutiny, I would imagine.

00:25:57.000 But...

00:25:59.000 It shows how hard it is to deal with this, man.

00:26:02.000 The ups and downs.

00:26:04.000 Because the downs hit hard just as hard as the ups hit.

00:26:08.000 And you've got to be ready.

00:26:10.000 And there can't be any separation in who you are with a win and a loss.

00:26:13.000 Because if there is, it's going to show.

00:26:15.000 And you've got to be who you are and not be solely connected to fighting as your whole being.

00:26:20.000 Otherwise, you're over when it ends.

00:26:24.000 Right.

00:26:24.000 That was something about the Ronda Rousey promos that I always felt like I just...

00:26:30.000 I didn't like hearing it.

00:26:32.000 Like, she was like, I gotta get back to fighting because it's the most important thing, and it's the thing that I can be best in the world at.

00:26:37.000 I was like, ooh.

00:26:38.000 I actually like hearing that stuff.

00:26:40.000 Do you?

00:26:41.000 I do.

00:26:41.000 And the reason...

00:26:42.000 Is it such a lesson if you're really listening in between the lines to the issue of the world?

00:26:48.000 And that's just my opinion.

00:26:50.000 We're all putting so much into this one thing and we think that that is our everything.

00:26:54.000 When really, it sounds cheesy, but if you put all that energy towards loving yourself and not the fight career, the fight career will still be there just as heavy as it is.

00:27:04.000 Right.

00:27:05.000 You know, so what I mean is she's using the fighting as her identity.

00:27:09.000 With that championship belt, she is Ronda Rousey, the Ronda Rousey.

00:27:13.000 Without the championship belt, we don't know who she is. 1.00

00:27:16.000 She won't come out.

00:27:17.000 So who are you unless you're winning?

00:27:21.000 We don't know.

00:27:22.000 Do you know?

00:27:23.000 You're counting on that belt to know who you are now.

00:27:25.000 And that was my biggest point.

00:27:27.000 That was the hurdle I ran into when I lost my belt.

00:27:30.000 I didn't know who I was anymore.

00:27:33.000 And that's how I knew this.

00:27:34.000 That's how I figured out what my issues were.

00:27:36.000 Is, alright Dom, you're getting ready to fight Brow. 0.53

00:27:39.000 You ready?

00:27:40.000 Yes, I'm ready.

00:27:41.000 Screw it.

00:27:41.000 Let's do it.

00:27:42.000 These knees can't stop me.

00:27:44.000 These injuries can't...

00:27:45.000 Blow your quad out and now you're out of that fight.

00:27:47.000 Now we're taking your belt. 0.71

00:27:49.000 But for people that don't know what we're about to be talking about, you had one of the most horrific injury streaks in the sport, in your prime.

00:27:58.000 You were considered to be one of the top pound-for-pound fighters in the world, and then you had a series of catastrophic injuries and surgeries.

00:28:05.000 So for a lot of people listening to this podcast that aren't really hardcore MMA fans.

00:28:10.000 That makes sense.

00:28:11.000 So you, like, talk us through it, because you went through, like, one of the most difficult trials in terms of recovery from injury.

00:28:19.000 No, the most difficult I've ever seen anybody go through in the entire history of my time of calling fights.

00:28:26.000 Well, for fighting, I definitely agree.

00:28:28.000 In the sport of fighting.

00:28:29.000 I've heard of the sport of NFL, because I researched them.

00:28:32.000 Oh, okay.

00:28:33.000 These guys who went through three ACL reconstructions came back and competed.

00:28:36.000 And one of them was just competing.

00:28:38.000 They almost made it to the Super Bowl.

00:28:40.000 And he had three ACL reconstructions in the game of football and came back and was still playing.

00:28:45.000 And he was like over 30. Wow.

00:28:47.000 And people like that need to be around in this world.

00:28:50.000 Sure.

00:28:51.000 Just to let you know that it's possible.

00:28:52.000 Just to let you know that it can be done.

00:28:53.000 Yeah.

00:28:56.000 That mindset right there, when you make it bigger than yourself, is the only way you get the power to get through stuff like that.

00:29:02.000 And that's what got me through, is understanding that I go through this.

00:29:06.000 These knee surgeries.

00:29:08.000 It becomes bigger than me when I come back and succeed.

00:29:11.000 It's not just about me coming back and getting my belt.

00:29:13.000 I already had belts.

00:29:14.000 I already knew what it felt like to be a five-time world champion by that point at the age of 26 before I blew my knee out.

00:29:21.000 I was on top of everything.

00:29:22.000 I had everything that I thought I needed and wanted.

00:29:25.000 Blew my knee out, get my belt stripped, go through three ACL reconstructions.

00:29:30.000 You soon find out that you actually have no idea who you are.

00:29:35.000 What was your initial injury?

00:29:38.000 ACL, MCL. What happened though?

00:29:41.000 I was training while I was getting ready on the Ultimate Fighter back in 2012 or 11 for Faber fight.

00:29:49.000 We were getting ready to compete at the end of the show.

00:29:52.000 And I was training with a guy, and it was just a hard week.

00:29:56.000 I mean, we were the first show that ever went live and was training for the fight at the same time, being tough.

00:30:02.000 We're the first and only live show that they did.

00:30:06.000 So that meant that while we coached, we were also going to compete at the same time.

00:30:11.000 So I had to do my fight camp while I trained the Ultimate Fighter guys simultaneously.

00:30:16.000 So I was doing four practices a day, two with the tough guys and two with myself.

00:30:21.000 And that workload was just insane.

00:30:23.000 That was a hard, hard training camp.

00:30:26.000 Ended up breaking me down.

00:30:27.000 Hurt my knee. 0.70

00:30:29.000 Just sparring.

00:30:29.000 It was a sparring day.

00:30:30.000 Guy went for a grappling transition and sagged on my hip weird and just blew my knee out.

00:30:35.000 A crappy takedown.

00:30:36.000 You know, where they sag instead of actually get the takedown.

00:30:40.000 And it just blew my knee out.

00:30:41.000 When I blew my ACL MCL, I was like, it's alright.

00:30:44.000 You'll be fine.

00:30:45.000 I fought it.

00:30:46.000 I almost literally fought the injury.

00:30:48.000 Like, you're too tough, you're too strong, you're too young, you can do this.

00:30:51.000 Let's go.

00:30:52.000 Fought the injury meaning not get surgery and try to rehab it?

00:30:54.000 Meaning you just heard what I just said.

00:30:56.000 It didn't happen.

00:30:57.000 Mentally.

00:30:58.000 I did the surgery.

00:30:59.000 I did...

00:30:59.000 That wasn't the problem, though.

00:31:02.000 That's my point.

00:31:03.000 The problem isn't if you're doing all the things right to get better.

00:31:07.000 It's understanding that...

00:31:09.000 It was understanding that I didn't need to fight to be better.

00:31:15.000 Giving up on it was when I finally got better.

00:31:18.000 Understanding I didn't need fighting to be who I was.

00:31:22.000 When you say get better, you mean get better emotionally, psychologically?

00:31:26.000 Well, physically.

00:31:27.000 Even physically?

00:31:28.000 Physically.

00:31:29.000 I did not get better until I gave up on fighting the injury.

00:31:32.000 And what I mean by fighting the injury is saying...

00:31:35.000 You'll be fine.

00:31:36.000 You'll come back.

00:31:37.000 Just keep training, keep training, keep training, keep training.

00:31:39.000 And I trained, but in the logic that I was given with what I'm allowed to do, according to my physical therapist, Gavin McMillan, he would say, you can do this, this, and this.

00:31:51.000 Don't push it.

00:31:52.000 I wouldn't push it.

00:31:53.000 I would do the things allowed.

00:31:55.000 But I'm telling you, that wasn't the issue.

00:31:57.000 The issue was surrendering.

00:31:59.000 The issue was knowing that fighting was the only way I was going to be happy then.

00:32:05.000 Being able to compete was the only way I could find peace.

00:32:08.000 Being able to prove that I was as good as I always was even after the injuries became everything that I was trying to do.

00:32:14.000 It was just a non-stop fight to just get healthy.

00:32:21.000 And I get through my second ACL reconstruction on the same knee.

00:32:25.000 Then I blow my quad out before I was supposed to fight.

00:32:29.000 How did you blow out the second one?

00:32:31.000 You had the injury, you had it reconstructed, and then how do you blow out the second one?

00:32:37.000 It's the same knee and I was training on Christmas.

00:32:41.000 How many months after the initial surgery?

00:32:43.000 Six.

00:32:43.000 So it's real recent.

00:32:44.000 It's probably not 100% healed yet.

00:32:46.000 It's not 100% healed yet.

00:32:48.000 Nine months is supposed to be full strength.

00:32:52.000 But six months is when you get to start pushing it to get ready.

00:32:57.000 So now you're like six months to six months you're not allowed to do any kind of cutting.

00:33:02.000 Cutting, meaning side to side.

00:33:04.000 No lateral movements.

00:33:04.000 Right.

00:33:05.000 Just straight down the line.

00:33:06.000 Nothing risky.

00:33:08.000 Keep your brace on.

00:33:09.000 When you're trained at a six-month mark, they're like, take the brace off.

00:33:12.000 You've got to start getting the stabilizer strong.

00:33:14.000 You can start testing it more.

00:33:15.000 You can start doing things, but you've still got to wear your brace when you do live scenarios.

00:33:19.000 But you can drill without it.

00:33:21.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:33:22.000 So you're actually pretty strong.

00:33:25.000 Yeah.

00:33:45.000 They base it on the end point and the stability of your knee.

00:33:49.000 When they manipulate it?

00:33:50.000 When they manipulate it at the six month mark.

00:33:52.000 You're going in every two to three weeks for six months to double check with the doctor.

00:33:56.000 I've had two.

00:33:57.000 I've had two reconstructions.

00:33:58.000 Well, I was doing that at Curlin and Joe.

00:34:00.000 They were good doctors and they tried to stay on me, you know?

00:34:04.000 So you've had two, so you know.

00:34:06.000 And you know at the six month mark, it's like...

00:34:09.000 You can push it, but you don't want to overkill it because you'll tear it.

00:34:13.000 So the second one, I wasn't overkilling it, but I was doing what I was allowed in my brace.

00:34:18.000 And I made a cut, like a turn, and it just popped.

00:34:23.000 It just like, it wasn't anything...

00:34:26.000 Like, oh, I shouldn't have been doing that.

00:34:28.000 It was kind of like, you know, I was boxing in my brace.

00:34:32.000 I had it taped.

00:34:32.000 I warmed up.

00:34:34.000 I stretched.

00:34:34.000 Were you sparring?

00:34:34.000 I was doing drills, boxing drills.

00:34:37.000 Just drills?

00:34:37.000 Yeah, boxing drills.

00:34:38.000 But you just pivot wrong, and it just pops, and then you know.

00:34:43.000 Like, I remember sitting there, and just the pain's very specific.

00:34:46.000 And then it goes away too quick.

00:34:48.000 That's when you know.

00:34:49.000 Because it's there, real, real, real, real hard pain, and then it goes away in like two minutes.

00:34:53.000 Because the ligament's gone.

00:34:54.000 It's torn, so now you don't have pain anymore.

00:34:56.000 And I'm like, oh no.

00:34:57.000 So I sit down and I go, alright, my knee's torn.

00:35:00.000 And that was when I hit like a real bad rock bottom on that one.

00:35:04.000 That was like, that one like, Oh my gosh.

00:35:07.000 When I went to the MRI and got home, I literally like called my friend and I told him to come over and I just, I mean, I pretty much just drank as much of a bottle as I could because I was in pretty good shape at that point.

00:35:19.000 So it put me out.

00:35:20.000 I passed out.

00:35:20.000 My head was, I woke up.

00:35:22.000 In my porch with my head on the grill in the morning, just a mess.

00:35:25.000 It was not pretty.

00:35:26.000 But I didn't care because I was out for nine months, you know?

00:35:29.000 Right, right.

00:35:30.000 So everybody hits these lows, you know, it's normal.

00:35:33.000 What were you doing financially back then?

00:35:35.000 Yeah.

00:35:36.000 Because that's where it gets rough, right?

00:35:37.000 That's another part of it.

00:35:38.000 I mean, us athletes, we all know, or you know, we only make money when we fight for the prize, you know?

00:35:47.000 Thank God, you know, Lorenzo and the UFC, they gave me a decent chunk of money for a good part of time while I had the belt.

00:35:53.000 And then once they took the belt, I stopped getting that chunk of money even when I was hurt.

00:35:57.000 So they were paying me a little bit of stipend while I was hurt.

00:36:00.000 And that helped me.

00:36:01.000 And then when they stripped the belt and gave it to Brow, they stopped with that.

00:36:06.000 Because I'm not the champ anymore.

00:36:07.000 And then it was kind of like, that's what I mean.

00:36:10.000 That's when it kind of turned reality.

00:36:11.000 Like, you're not the champ on paper anymore.

00:36:16.000 You didn't really lose it, but that's it.

00:36:17.000 So what are you going to do?

00:36:19.000 Is this it?

00:36:19.000 How are you going to make money?

00:36:20.000 How are you going to do this?

00:36:21.000 How are you going to do that?

00:36:23.000 And I panicked.

00:36:24.000 But I knew...

00:36:26.000 That I was going to still come back and fight because I was still young.

00:36:29.000 And so I hadn't given up on fighting yet.

00:36:31.000 Still only in my second ACL surgery.

00:36:33.000 So I'm still not fully admitting that I'm not, that I'm a mess.

00:36:38.000 Right.

00:36:39.000 I'm kind of not really like admitting it to myself yet.

00:36:42.000 And it's screw what you're saying to everybody else.

00:36:44.000 That's what I'm trying to say.

00:36:44.000 It's what you believe to yourself is all that matters.

00:36:47.000 Right.

00:36:47.000 Period.

00:36:48.000 And I was like, I'll be fine.

00:36:49.000 This isn't that bad.

00:36:50.000 I can do this.

00:36:51.000 I've gone through worse.

00:36:54.000 So in doing it, I still hadn't really just given up yet.

00:36:58.000 So I'm still competing in my mind, which is the problem.

00:37:02.000 And that's when you're just overworking.

00:37:05.000 And not just doing things you're not supposed to on your knee, but just in general in life.

00:37:10.000 I'm just overworking.

00:37:12.000 I'm doing my Fox stuff now to make money.

00:37:14.000 And then I'm trying to do my rehab five days a week because I have to come back and fight for the belt when I come back.

00:37:20.000 That's another thing people don't equate is I was the champ, so I got to come back and fight for the belt when I come back after this injury.

00:37:25.000 I don't just get to come back and fight somebody three rounds.

00:37:28.000 I got to come back and fight five rounds.

00:37:30.000 Never been done before.

00:37:32.000 I had nobody to bounce this thought off of.

00:37:35.000 I just had to wing it, man.

00:37:37.000 And so I was.

00:37:39.000 And that caused, I think, a lot of problems with me because I didn't have the mental capacity to deal with it at that point with all the things that I was doing.

00:37:46.000 So I just kept grinding.

00:37:47.000 And then I finally get back to health after the second ACL. Six months, nine months goes by.

00:37:55.000 All right, let's take this Burrell fight. 0.70

00:37:57.000 So I'm ready.

00:37:58.000 I'm training in camp about a month in.

00:38:00.000 Um...

00:38:02.000 I have like a weird pinch in my groin.

00:38:04.000 It turns out to be the exact same injury Daniel Cormier just pulled out of the fight for.

00:38:09.000 It's the extensor tendon in your, or no, it's the, I forget the name of the, there's a tendon in your groin area that pulls and then you gotta just rest it.

00:38:19.000 I tore the...

00:38:21.000 mine was a little bit worse.

00:38:23.000 I tore the muscle, the quad muscle off the bone.

00:38:26.000 So it like separated from the bone.

00:38:28.000 But it wasn't all the way.

00:38:29.000 It was just enough that it was...

00:38:31.000 I could still like think I was okay.

00:38:34.000 But it would just fail on me occasionally.

00:38:36.000 So I could tape it some days and it would be alright.

00:38:38.000 Shoot a bunch of Toradol, which is a...

00:38:40.000 For anybody who's curious, it's a natural... 0.97

00:38:42.000 It's a legal anti-inflammatory.

00:38:45.000 A lot of football players take it.

00:38:47.000 Toradol?

00:38:48.000 Toradol.

00:38:49.000 It's a...

00:38:50.000 Yeah, I think that's...

00:38:51.000 Yeah, I think that's what it's called.

00:38:52.000 But anyways, it's a natural...

00:38:54.000 Or it's an anti-inflammatory, not a natural one.

00:38:56.000 But it's like ibuprofen, but stronger.

00:38:58.000 And I would take that and that helped.

00:39:01.000 But...

00:39:02.000 It just, it wasn't right.

00:39:04.000 I remember I was sparring one day and I went to throw a right hand and my leg just gave out and I fell on the floor.

00:39:10.000 I wasn't kicking.

00:39:11.000 I wasn't shooting.

00:39:11.000 I just threw a right hand.

00:39:13.000 And the feeling of falling because I threw a right hand made me know like something wasn't connected.

00:39:19.000 Like it just didn't feel right because it just failed me.

00:39:22.000 It wasn't like it hurt and I stopped.

00:39:24.000 It just literally, there was no pain and it just failed.

00:39:27.000 And I was like, something's way mechanically wrong with me.

00:39:30.000 I can't fight mechanically wrong like this.

00:39:33.000 And that was about four weeks out of the fight, three, four weeks out of the fight.

00:39:36.000 Well, I had already done a month camp with this injury, trying to tough it out.

00:39:40.000 So my camp was rough.

00:39:41.000 It was a hard camp.

00:39:42.000 And I didn't want to pull out, obviously, naturally.

00:39:45.000 So I ended up calling Dana, and it's one of the few phone calls I've ever had with Dana, unfortunately, and this is probably one of the times your members are telling them, I'm sorry, I gotta pull out.

00:39:54.000 But I remember not wanting to have my manager call them.

00:39:57.000 This goes back to how my mom put something in my head where you deal with this face-to-face or talking.

00:40:04.000 So I called and I said, look, I don't want to do this, but I gotta pull out of this fight.

00:40:08.000 If you got any doctors, you can have MRI me, whatever you want, but I'm telling you something's wrong with my leg.

00:40:13.000 So he's like, okay, I'll do it.

00:40:15.000 I got guys on it.

00:40:16.000 We can't have you pull out now.

00:40:16.000 I'm sure you're fine.

00:40:18.000 Check it out.

00:40:18.000 Get the doctors check it.

00:40:19.000 Yeah, your quad's torn.

00:40:21.000 You can't fight.

00:40:22.000 So the UFC pulls me.

00:40:24.000 You know, Dana's naturally pissed. 1.00

00:40:25.000 But then that slides Faber in there.

00:40:28.000 Boom.

00:40:28.000 Faber gets the shot with Burrell.

00:40:30.000 Ends up getting knocked out in that matchup.

00:40:33.000 But I pull out of that fight.

00:40:35.000 That's when they strip my belt.

00:40:36.000 And then that was the beginning of me giving up on fighting to an extent.

00:40:42.000 And what I mean by that is...

00:40:43.000 It's different than you think.

00:40:46.000 It sounds negative, right?

00:40:47.000 When you say that.

00:40:48.000 I'm giving up on fighting.

00:40:48.000 But it is actually the building point in my life where I finally let go of control.

00:40:54.000 I always had this thing up to that point where I wanted to control everything.

00:40:59.000 It's just something that I always had the gift of being able to do.

00:41:04.000 This last one, after the two ACL reconstructive surgeries coming back, and then tearing my quad after that, I said...

00:41:11.000 Like, I don't know what else you want me to do.

00:41:13.000 I've gotten through two ACL reconstructions.

00:41:15.000 My higher power is God.

00:41:17.000 So I'm praying at this point.

00:41:18.000 Saying, I don't know what you want me to do.

00:41:20.000 So you're talking to God saying, what do I got to do?

00:41:22.000 What do I got to do, man?

00:41:25.000 I'm in this for reasons bigger than myself.

00:41:27.000 I want to come back and show people that this can be done.

00:41:31.000 I'm not the only one that can do this.

00:41:32.000 Anybody can do this, right?

00:41:34.000 I'm here for you, bidding your will, God.

00:41:37.000 This is my talking.

00:41:39.000 And no answers, no nothing.

00:41:42.000 And I said, maybe that's the answer.

00:41:45.000 I remember thinking, maybe that's the answer.

00:41:47.000 It's just, you might not ever fight again.

00:41:49.000 Are you okay with that?

00:41:50.000 And that was something that I never allowed my brain to even go to, ever, until all these injuries hit me.

00:41:57.000 And I would have never been able to unless I went through all that.

00:42:00.000 That was literally all the stuff because I'm so stubborn and so...

00:42:05.000 Just tough that I had to go through all that just to mentally say, okay, you might never do this again.

00:42:10.000 It could have been after the first one I could have done that, but I didn't.

00:42:15.000 When I did that, my health skyrocketed immediately.

00:42:20.000 I just went to therapy every day knowing I was trying to get better, but I didn't care if I fought again or not.

00:42:24.000 I focused all my energy in FOX and coaching the guys at Alliance Training Center to make them better and try to make the team better and feed off the thirst and the hunger that those guys had to be the champion that I still wanted to be.

00:42:39.000 And I decided that if I focused on Fox, focused on the positive energy of these guys at the gym, kept my mind in the sport, my body will be there because my age is compliant with my body still.

00:42:55.000 I'm still young enough that I'll be okay.

00:42:57.000 So I just needed to get my mind wrapped around the sport, stay in it mentally, but understand that if I never have it again, that's okay too.

00:43:04.000 And when I did that, it took away so much importance Off of needing to fight, have the title, as the person that I was, that it allowed me to open up and say, if you never fight again, you're still a great person.

00:43:17.000 You still did great things.

00:43:18.000 You still laid the tracks for the bantamweight division in a lot of ways.

00:43:25.000 You did this.

00:43:25.000 You had a great career, Dom.

00:43:27.000 It's okay if this is it.

00:43:30.000 And I kept that mindset, kept focusing on the things that I could control instead of the things that I couldn't, like the fact that I wasn't competing yet.

00:43:38.000 And as I did that, I got healthier and healthier, came back, fought Mizugaki. 1.00

00:43:42.000 That set me up to fight Mizugaki.

00:43:46.000 Destroyed Mizugaki, one of your best performances ever, whirlwind, first round, destruction. 0.85

00:43:51.000 That was the most at peace I've felt in a long time, walking into that fight.

00:43:54.000 I remember interviewing you after the fight, and you were like, I don't even remember what happened.

00:43:58.000 You just went into a trance.

00:44:00.000 It was weird.

00:44:01.000 It was one of the weirdest performances of my whole career, easily.

00:44:05.000 Because the walkout was different.

00:44:08.000 Just I was so...

00:44:09.000 I had no connection.

00:44:11.000 I had no connection to the win or the loss at that point.

00:44:15.000 There was nothing.

00:44:16.000 It was just...

00:44:17.000 I was just there to enjoy being there again after three and a half years and all these injuries.

00:44:22.000 Like, I can't believe I made it here.

00:44:24.000 I'm not injured.

00:44:25.000 And I remember thinking, like, just...

00:44:29.000 We're good to go.

00:44:49.000 I was in my zone, and it allowed me to just be free.

00:44:54.000 And that was the best performance of my career.

00:44:56.000 But more than anything, it showed me a mental thing that I'd never opened up before.

00:45:02.000 And it was letting go of the things that you can't control will give you actually more peace because it disconnects you from...

00:45:12.000 What happens?

00:45:13.000 So you feel like that piece was a significant factor in your body recovering because the pressure and the stress and the anxiety all that was playing It was it was wrecking not just your mental state, but also your physical state 100% every piece of it.

00:45:30.000 That's really interesting every piece of it and that's the biggest thing I learned is That is like it wasn't my physical body.

00:45:37.000 It was my mind doing it to my physical body and So it was initially a physical injury, and then it was the cascade of psychological issues that came with the physical issue that led to more physical issues.

00:45:49.000 It was the cascade of trying to figure out why I was so sad with all these things that I earned around me.

00:45:56.000 I already had everything that I thought... 0.74

00:46:00.000 When you grow up in a trailer like I did, and then you go to winning a GTR, the car you wanted since you were a kid, in a prize fight, and having a home that you bought with your own money that you never thought you'd be able to own a home in California because you live in a damn trailer park in Tucson, Arizona, it kind of makes you feel like Like, 0.78

00:46:22.000 that's it.

00:46:23.000 You know, like, you've done crazy great things.

00:46:26.000 And you've, um, I, those were all just dreams to me and they happened so quick.

00:46:32.000 Like, at 20, you know, I mean, I didn't get my house till later, but when I got those things, it's like, I really, I, why are you so, I was still sad is my point.

00:46:41.000 Like, I was still, I had my depression that was hitting me.

00:46:44.000 And that's, so many people in this world are dealing with depression.

00:46:47.000 Like, it's a huge, catastrophic problem across the planet.

00:46:51.000 And And I definitely, it's in my bloodline on both sides of my family.

00:46:58.000 And it's something that everybody, not just myself, deals with on a daily basis, I think, in certain people's lives.

00:47:03.000 And that hit me very hard.

00:47:05.000 And I didn't understand why it hit me so much harder now, after I stopped competing.

00:47:10.000 Like, why is it so much worse now?

00:47:14.000 Well, the reason is my body was used to the active.

00:47:17.000 The activity, just go, go, go.

00:47:19.000 And what I realized is I turned off all my emotional, spiritual, and mental issues with exercise to where I never, ever, ever dealt with them, ever.

00:47:29.000 I only physically worked them out.

00:47:32.000 So my physical was perfection.

00:47:35.000 I'm a world champion monster killer, whatever you want to call me in your own perspective mind, right?

00:47:43.000 But emotionally, physically, and spiritually, I was a cricket.

00:47:48.000 And I never understood that until I was hurt, trapped in my own body like a prison cell.

00:47:53.000 Couldn't train, couldn't run, couldn't walk, couldn't bend my leg.

00:47:57.000 Laying on the couch, eating pain pills, realizing, man, unless you train, unless you compete, you hate yourself.

00:48:05.000 You hate yourself. 1.00

00:48:06.000 You're a piece of shit in your own mind without those things, without the beautiful girlfriend, without the beautiful house, without the nice cars, without the big money to show people. 1.00

00:48:15.000 You hate yourself. 1.00

00:48:17.000 So what am I really doing?

00:48:19.000 Why am I doing this?

00:48:21.000 I lost sight that the whole reason we're fighting is it's a spiritual, emotional, physical, mental battle that helps you grow as an individual and as a human being.

00:48:30.000 It's not just to have these things that you think will make you happy.

00:48:34.000 You have to learn those things through the process.

00:48:36.000 And I didn't know that until I was trapped in my own body.

00:48:39.000 I literally felt like I was in a prison cell.

00:48:41.000 And I knew that wasn't right.

00:48:43.000 We shouldn't be in our own body alone without people around us to keep us company and on a couch feeling like we're in a prison cell, should we?

00:48:54.000 No, definitely not.

00:48:56.000 No, we shouldn't, but I did for three years.

00:48:58.000 So how did you get yourself out of it?

00:49:00.000 By just accepting it?

00:49:01.000 There must have been some sort of a mechanism that you used.

00:49:04.000 I have people that I talk to, professionals.

00:49:09.000 Like sports psychologists?

00:49:11.000 Well, sports psychologists and then you got to get a psychologist in general to deal with depression, whatever, when you hit your lows.

00:49:17.000 It's okay to get, you know, if you're bench pressing 350 pounds, it's okay to have a little touch.

00:49:24.000 It's okay to have a little spot here and there, you know?

00:49:26.000 And then after you get a couple spots, now after a while you can do it yourself.

00:49:30.000 You don't need the spot anymore.

00:49:32.000 That's how I look at psychiatric help to an extent for some people, especially if they're battling depression.

00:49:36.000 Sometimes you just need a floaty and then you can take the floaties off after a year.

00:49:41.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:49:42.000 It's a mental floaty and it's okay because we all hit low parts.

00:49:48.000 Low points in our life where it's unbearable.

00:49:50.000 And you either allow it to continue to be unbearable and just deny it, or you deal with the task at hand and say, I'm a little low right now.

00:49:56.000 I need the floaties. 0.93

00:49:57.000 It's okay.

00:49:58.000 I'll get through this.

00:49:59.000 And then when you take the floaties off, you realize I only needed them for a little bit of time, and now I'm okay.

00:50:03.000 I'm here.

00:50:04.000 And that's kind of what it felt like.

00:50:06.000 It's like I just needed a little bit of a push.

00:50:08.000 I needed to get through this and learn some things about my own My own mind and understand my own emotions and understand that I didn't need...

00:50:16.000 All these things that I was thinking weren't real.

00:50:19.000 It was me not being in control of my own emotions.

00:50:21.000 Your own emotions are your choice.

00:50:24.000 And I chose to feel trapped.

00:50:25.000 I chose to be sad. 1.00

00:50:27.000 I chose to feel like I was jack shit. 1.00

00:50:29.000 I chose all these things. 0.99

00:50:30.000 And it's like, you don't need fighting to be these things.

00:50:33.000 You need to let go of fighting to learn that you are something without it.

00:50:37.000 And that was actually a gift.

00:50:39.000 It became a gift because I learned so much in life now.

00:50:43.000 Bigger than fighting.

00:50:45.000 I look at the things that I went through as a gift because I have gotten the gift of feeling retired during my career.

00:50:55.000 Who else gets that?

00:50:58.000 Some people retire for five years, lose their freaking mind, end up in the bar and come back and try to fight again ten years later. 0.94

00:51:04.000 With a weakened body. 0.50

00:51:06.000 A mess.

00:51:07.000 From abuse.

00:51:08.000 Why?

00:51:08.000 Why though?

00:51:09.000 Why are they doing that?

00:51:10.000 They're not doing it because they're physically capable.

00:51:12.000 They're doing it because they never dealt with their life away from fighting.

00:51:15.000 Fighting was their life.

00:51:16.000 Fighting is who they are.

00:51:17.000 Fighting is their persona.

00:51:19.000 So take away fighting, what are they?

00:51:21.000 They're in the bar drinking away what they're not.

00:51:25.000 Instead of drinking, putting the booze down and knowing what you are without fighting.

00:51:29.000 Being happy with that chapter of your life and being able to live who you are.

00:51:33.000 I've gotten to feel that.

00:51:34.000 And now I can fight with a peace of mind knowing how good I am without fighting and how great I am with it too.

00:51:42.000 And that's what this thing's about.

00:51:48.000 All these fights.

00:51:49.000 Me attacking those challenges, coming back and winning and getting my belt back.

00:51:55.000 Could only happen because I let go of control the things I couldn't control So you come back you fight Mitsugaki you put on the performance of your career just destroy him It was just a whirlwind wild crazy first-round stoppage Then what happens?

00:52:12.000 Well That was a big deal for me because he'd never been stopped like that before, Mizugaki, at this point.

00:52:20.000 At this point, he was on a five-fight win streak.

00:52:22.000 He hadn't lost since the whole time I had been hurt.

00:52:25.000 And he was beating the top guys.

00:52:28.000 So to beat him was going to tell me, you're good enough, let's go for the title.

00:52:32.000 And I beat him and I said, okay, here I am.

00:52:34.000 Let's go for that title.

00:52:36.000 And at this point...

00:52:38.000 If you remember, it was Burrell was the next coming to Christ. 0.64

00:52:42.000 And then TJ beat the brakes off of him.

00:52:44.000 And now TJ's the next coming to Christ.

00:52:46.000 He's a better version of me.

00:52:47.000 He's this, he's that.

00:52:49.000 And so I said, yeah, I can beat him.

00:52:51.000 I knew I could.

00:52:52.000 I've been watching him on film and for Fox and breaking down his fights.

00:52:56.000 And I knew I could beat Burrell.

00:52:58.000 I knew both those guys couldn't beat me at that point.

00:53:02.000 But it didn't matter what I thought.

00:53:04.000 I had to prove it.

00:53:08.000 Four injuries the way I had them so I just had to go do it.

00:53:11.000 I blew my knee out training one month after I fought Takaya Mizugaki.

00:53:17.000 Now this is what's interesting about the story is I did research later.

00:53:21.000 I'm now basically a doctor to figure all this stuff out because all the injuries I've been through.

00:53:25.000 But three weeks before I fought Mizugaki, I had a staph infection on my right thumb that popped up.

00:53:30.000 So I took an antibiotic called Cipro.

00:53:36.000 I think it's with a C-I-P-P-R-O. Now, me trusting the doctors and me not, it's my own fault, not the doctor's fault. 0.99

00:53:46.000 I should have read what was the hazards of the antibiotic.

00:53:50.000 But you kind of trust the doctors and assume, why would he give me something bad, right?

00:53:54.000 Well, Cipro has an after effect for six months after you ingest it that it weakens your tendons.

00:54:00.000 So it makes them soft, like real putty.

00:54:04.000 And so I took it three weeks before the fight.

00:54:07.000 That made it about two months after I ingested the Cipro, I was throwing a left high kick.

00:54:14.000 I never had a problem with my right knee my entire life ever, and it just popped throwing a right high kick.

00:54:20.000 I pivot on my right leg to throw the left one up high, and it just popped.

00:54:26.000 And I knew right away, obviously, because I've done it twice, that I blew it out.

00:54:30.000 And I remember literally blowing it out, sitting on the floor.

00:54:34.000 The guy that I was drilling with is like, what's up?

00:54:35.000 And I was like, I just blew my knee out.

00:54:37.000 And he's like, what?

00:54:39.000 Nothing happened.

00:54:41.000 It was crazy.

00:54:42.000 It was a weird feeling.

00:54:46.000 What was even weirder was the piece I had sitting there, not even caring.

00:54:52.000 I literally was just...

00:54:53.000 I remember blowing it out and sitting on the ring like...

00:54:57.000 I told him, I said, Eric, come here.

00:55:00.000 And I told him to come over and I was like, you ready for another nine-month ACL reconstructive surgery?

00:55:04.000 And he's like, what?

00:55:06.000 He's like, what are you talking about?

00:55:07.000 Your knee's fine.

00:55:07.000 I'm like, no, I blew it out right now.

00:55:09.000 He's like, no, you didn't.

00:55:10.000 I said, yes, I did.

00:55:12.000 And that was it.

00:55:13.000 And so I start again.

00:55:14.000 Wow.

00:55:15.000 Start again.

00:55:16.000 So I started the rehab again.

00:55:17.000 Same style of reconstruction?

00:55:19.000 This time's better.

00:55:21.000 Because I had the first two practice tries.

00:55:25.000 And now I had the secret link.

00:55:27.000 What's the secret link that I didn't know for the first three injuries that I had?

00:55:30.000 Was letting go of control.

00:55:33.000 This was my diamond.

00:55:36.000 Now I had a way to prove that I was on to something.

00:55:39.000 In my own mind.

00:55:40.000 And I did it.

00:55:42.000 And I was onto something, and I know it now, and nobody can ever tell me anything different.

00:55:46.000 It was just, I stopped right then and there.

00:55:50.000 The day I blew my knee out, I didn't train again for nine months other than physical therapy.

00:55:55.000 I didn't shadow box, I didn't do a push-up, I didn't do a sit-up, I didn't do a squat.

00:56:01.000 I went in the gym occasionally, but because I had learned to let go of fighting from the first two injuries, I didn't go in there panicking trying to keep training because I needed it for my health anymore.

00:56:13.000 I already learned that the way I find health...

00:56:17.000 Is to not train, let my body completely heal, don't do anything, and focus on my mind.

00:56:22.000 So I spent another nine months focusing on nothing but my mind.

00:56:27.000 And my tactic was, your body's not working right now, so you gotta switch it over to the next weapon that you have, which is your mind.

00:56:33.000 Your mind is the only other weapon you use besides your body on fight night.

00:56:37.000 So if your body's not working, switch it over.

00:56:39.000 So I just focused on my mind.

00:56:40.000 And by focusing on my mind, I'm talking.

00:56:42.000 I started looking up guys like Wayne Dyer.

00:56:46.000 I started talking to a guy named Michael T. Lardin.

00:56:50.000 Dr. Michael T. Lardin.

00:56:52.000 I started putting in place specific go-to people to talk to that I looked up to.

00:57:01.000 Power people, I guess you'd put them right.

00:57:03.000 I'm sure you have some too.

00:57:04.000 And I focused on nothing but my mind.

00:57:06.000 I didn't train at all.

00:57:09.000 And I remember I got a call.

00:57:11.000 I was out at the lake in Arizona.

00:57:14.000 I literally hit the nine-month mark on this weekend.

00:57:19.000 I get a call from Shelby.

00:57:20.000 The nine-month mark.

00:57:21.000 They knew my knee was going to be healthy.

00:57:24.000 And he goes...

00:57:26.000 You're healthy, right?

00:57:27.000 And I was like, well, I've done nothing but rehab, and it's been nine months, so technically I'm cleared by the doctor.

00:57:32.000 They know I'm cleared by the doctor because the UFC talks with the doctors 24-7 whether they admit it or not.

00:57:37.000 So it's like, even if the doctor shouldn't tell the UFC, they're telling them everything.

00:57:41.000 So they know exactly where I'm at in rehab, exactly where I'm at in therapy, to the T, and that's why they know when to call me and put the heat on me.

00:57:49.000 So I'm out on the boat drinking some beers, trying to enjoy my life, And I get a call.

00:57:55.000 We want to give you a title fight with TJ Dillshaw in the beginning of the year or whatever.

00:58:00.000 At that point, I had 12 weeks when they called me to get ready for the fight.

00:58:05.000 So three months, but zero training for nine months.

00:58:08.000 Correct.

00:58:09.000 Wow.

00:58:09.000 After the Mizugaki fight.

00:58:11.000 That's insane just to be able to get yourself into five-round peak performance.

00:58:15.000 Correct.

00:58:16.000 And this is...

00:58:17.000 I mean, you're hearing a story right now I haven't told anybody.

00:58:21.000 Because...

00:58:24.000 I don't sit down and talk for two hours to anybody about this stuff.

00:58:27.000 So it's like, who am I going to go on an interview with and talk about this stuff?

00:58:31.000 Pretty much you're the only guy who gets into this weird stuff.

00:58:33.000 So here we are.

00:58:35.000 And it comes down to that.

00:58:39.000 Like, yeah, I was on zero.

00:58:41.000 And I said, again, because of what I learned with the Mizugaki thing, letting go. 1.00

00:58:47.000 I just kept exercising that because what's going to happen is going to happen.

00:58:51.000 It's out of my control.

00:58:52.000 God's got his plan for me.

00:58:53.000 He took me this far in my mind.

00:58:55.000 That's my higher power.

00:58:56.000 And remember, if you're listening and your higher power is not God, it can be whatever you want it to be for your higher power.

00:59:02.000 It's a matter of just letting go.

00:59:04.000 It's a matter of just letting go and understanding that there's something in effect that's bigger than you here in the universe.

00:59:12.000 And as soon as you can do that, You're going to be who you're going to be.

00:59:16.000 And then when you are who you are because you're not worried about all these other things connected to it, you're your fullest self.

00:59:23.000 And in being that, it allowed me to get ready for TJ because I wasn't thinking about, he's been fighting, you haven't, he's been this, you haven't that.

00:59:34.000 None of that mattered.

00:59:35.000 It wasn't relevant because I was fighting him no matter what.

00:59:38.000 So I just let go and said, get in the tip-top shape you can with the tools you have and let's go fight him.

00:59:44.000 You know you have the skill set.

00:59:45.000 You know you have the knowledge and the movement and you're young enough and your body's working.

00:59:48.000 You just proved that with Mizugaki.

00:59:50.000 So you just got to get in shape and you're fine.

00:59:52.000 And that was literally my mindset.

00:59:54.000 Well, at the end...

00:59:58.000 8-week mark.

00:59:59.000 So at 12 weeks, I start training.

01:00:02.000 12 weeks out?

01:00:03.000 12 weeks out.

01:00:04.000 I stop just physical therapy, which I was doing three times a week only, and I go to fight training.

01:00:13.000 I start just my regiment, what I do for each camp.

01:00:17.000 In doing that, going from off the couch, doing nothing, straight into a five-round title fight...

01:00:24.000 That actually sparked what I now have, which is plantar fascia tendonitis in both my feet.

01:00:31.000 And so it's because going from resting for a year or whatever, three years, and then going full bore on your feet, it tore all the fascia on the bottom of my feet because they weren't ready for the brunt of force that I was putting on them with my footwork and my movement and my sparring and my kickboxing and all that.

01:00:46.000 It wasn't ready, so I tore all the fascia on the bottom of my feet.

01:00:48.000 So I started feeling something weird on the bottom of my left foot in that camp.

01:00:53.000 Simultaneously at the eight-week mark after I'd been training for 12, what, Four weeks I've been training for the TJ Dillashaw camp.

01:01:02.000 I broke my rib.

01:01:03.000 So I get kicked in my rib.

01:01:05.000 My body's just soft.

01:01:06.000 I hadn't been getting kicked or punched in over three and a half years now.

01:01:13.000 Because if you think about it, Mizugaki fight doesn't even count.

01:01:16.000 Right, so fast.

01:01:17.000 And he didn't even hit you?

01:01:19.000 He didn't hit me.

01:01:19.000 He hit me one time and it was just under a minute long fight.

01:01:24.000 And so the only wear and tear and callous, for lack of a better term, I have on my body is from the training camp before Mizugaki, which was only a three round camp.

01:01:37.000 So I have no wear and tear on my body, no toughness.

01:01:39.000 I get kicked in my rib.

01:01:41.000 Breaks my rib.

01:01:42.000 I lose right then and there.

01:01:44.000 I can't wrestle anymore and I can't spar anymore.

01:01:47.000 So now I'm at eight weeks out of the fight and they take away my sparring and they take away my wrestling because I can't go live.

01:01:52.000 So I'm just drilling kickboxing now.

01:01:55.000 Pad work with coach Eric Del Ferro and Miguel Reyes and grappling drills.

01:02:01.000 So you're taping up your rib?

01:02:03.000 Now I get this big thing that goes over the top.

01:02:06.000 It's like this weird protector and I wear that.

01:02:10.000 Is it a protector against impact or a protector?

01:02:12.000 Is it actually like a cast that holds your ribs in place?

01:02:15.000 No, it was like I had to look it up online myself for some makeshift thing that would work and this thing worked the best.

01:02:21.000 I forget what it's called.

01:02:22.000 I could text it to you and figure it out.

01:02:25.000 Picture what the coaches wear when they wear that body plate and you can punch in the body and it goes all the way up to here.

01:02:32.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:02:34.000 It's like one of those but it's a little smaller.

01:02:36.000 And it just goes here, and then you put it on like a shirt, and the cables cross in the back, and then the whole front is kind of like squishy, but protecting you from squeezing in blunt force.

01:02:50.000 But I wasn't taking any anyways.

01:02:52.000 I was just wearing that for when I would drill.

01:02:54.000 Okay.

01:02:54.000 I wasn't going live yet.

01:02:56.000 Right.

01:02:56.000 So then I finally...

01:02:58.000 Start panicking when I can't spar or wrestle live after four weeks with the busted rip.

01:03:05.000 I was like, oh it'll go away.

01:03:06.000 It just wasn't going away.

01:03:08.000 It was just killing me.

01:03:09.000 I couldn't even breathe, man.

01:03:11.000 I couldn't sneeze.

01:03:12.000 I couldn't cough.

01:03:12.000 It was horrible.

01:03:14.000 So I just said, I gotta shoot it with cortisone and see if that helps. 0.99

01:03:18.000 So I go in, see the doctor, they shoot it with cortisone. 0.95

01:03:21.000 Thank God it works.

01:03:23.000 It numbed it.

01:03:23.000 Within three days, I'm moving again.

01:03:25.000 I'm good.

01:03:26.000 So the reason I didn't shoot it right away is because you want to give it as much time as you can to heal before you shoot it to see if you can minimize the damage that you do with the cortisone.

01:03:35.000 Does that make sense?

01:03:36.000 That's why I didn't do it right off the bat.

01:03:36.000 Cortisone does damage?

01:03:38.000 It breaks down a tissue, like muscle and tendon tissue, if you overdo it.

01:03:43.000 You can do within three in one injected area, but you don't want to do more than three in one area, depending on where you're at.

01:03:49.000 This is my first one in this particular rib.

01:03:51.000 I mean, I've had them all over my body, but this and this rib.

01:03:55.000 When that kicks in, I'm like, sweet.

01:03:57.000 I can spar and I can wrestle now.

01:03:58.000 I just got to wear that thing.

01:04:00.000 So the whole camp, I'm wearing this thing.

01:04:03.000 And I can't do any core workout.

01:04:05.000 I can't do any strength and conditioning at all.

01:04:08.000 Because we had to ditch those two things in order to focus on cardio and skill.

01:04:13.000 Because we had to get my cardio and skill back and my timing and my reads back.

01:04:17.000 More than I needed strength and conditioning.

01:04:20.000 So because I'm coming back from so much, you actually have to just cut out what's not needed in the camps that you've had in the past and take what you can use.

01:04:28.000 So what are you doing for cardio at this point?

01:04:30.000 I have a sprint routine that I run that's solely mine that I got from a guy named Drew Fickett way back in the day.

01:04:37.000 Oh, I know Drew.

01:04:38.000 Oh yeah, he was my first MMA coach.

01:04:40.000 He's a tough dude. 1.00

01:04:41.000 He's a nasty, crazy, dirty, filthy son of a gun. 1.00

01:04:45.000 I'll just leave it at that. 1.00

01:04:46.000 Him and Don Frye, I started out with.

01:04:49.000 Let's put it that way.

01:04:50.000 Those were my two first MMA coaches.

01:04:52.000 Just to give you an idea of when I started.

01:04:55.000 And they weren't even my coaches, because if you know them, they don't coach anybody.

01:04:57.000 They just yell at you, slurs, and then maybe put you to sleep a couple times.

01:05:01.000 And Don Frye throws head kicks when you're only supposed to be boxing.

01:05:05.000 So it's like, they're not real coaches.

01:05:07.000 They're just showing you how to be a maniac.

01:05:09.000 But anyways, he shows me this sprint routine.

01:05:12.000 Which I still use to this day.

01:05:14.000 So, Drew Figg, it's the man.

01:05:17.000 So, but you're still dealing with plantar fasciitis.

01:05:20.000 Now, well then, it starts kicking in.

01:05:21.000 Because of the sprinting as well.

01:05:22.000 Because of the sprinting, the footwork, everything else coming from nothing.

01:05:26.000 But it's only in my left foot.

01:05:27.000 So, I think I kicked an elbow.

01:05:30.000 I don't know.

01:05:31.000 I have it yet.

01:05:32.000 So I don't go get an MRI. I don't check anything.

01:05:34.000 I just ignore it because I'm fighting either way.

01:05:36.000 I don't want to know.

01:05:37.000 Sometimes it's just better not knowing.

01:05:39.000 Especially if you're going to fight whether it's hurt or not.

01:05:41.000 So I just said, screw it.

01:05:43.000 I didn't shoot it up with cortisone or nothing. 0.87

01:05:46.000 I just ignored it, kept running.

01:05:48.000 Super painful if you've ever had it.

01:05:49.000 Plantar fasciitis.

01:05:50.000 It's debilitating to an extent.

01:05:53.000 But thank God it was only in one foot.

01:05:56.000 And then I go into that fight...

01:05:59.000 I had about a good solid four-week camp of sparring and wrestling, thank God, of live stuff.

01:06:05.000 But other than that, the first 12 weeks was basically just getting into shape.

01:06:09.000 So my whole camp was comprised of Mostly sprints, pad work, and about a month of sparring.

01:06:17.000 I lost almost all rounds coming back because I was just so off from the year and not doing anything in my body, not being strong, and trying to get back in shape.

01:06:27.000 It was tough.

01:06:28.000 By far, that camp was the worst put-together ever.

01:06:34.000 Most off and horrible camp I've had in my whole 24 fights, by far.

01:06:39.000 But you won the title.

01:06:40.000 Yeah, thank the good Lord above I won that title.

01:06:44.000 It didn't really make sense, but it happened.

01:06:48.000 And we didn't know that you had plantar fasciitis, so when you kept getting hit by leg kicks and your leg was giving out, I was thinking that your leg was giving out from the impact of the kicks.

01:06:57.000 And I know, and I don't take...

01:06:59.000 You know, it's hard, especially I do it with you, color now.

01:07:03.000 It's hard, man.

01:07:04.000 This thing's hard.

01:07:05.000 Somebody's going to get mad no matter what you do, no matter what you say, eventually.

01:07:09.000 And it's like, how are you supposed to know my foot's blown out before I get in there?

01:07:12.000 Well, now I saw you in the Uriah Faber fight, which happened after that, and then I noticed your foot was taped up.

01:07:18.000 Both.

01:07:19.000 Yes.

01:07:19.000 It went into the other foot.

01:07:21.000 So it went into the other foot as well.

01:07:22.000 And then the Cody fight, it multiplied by two.

01:07:25.000 Hmm.

01:07:26.000 In both feet.

01:07:27.000 So instead of just having it in one for TJ, I get through.

01:07:30.000 Then I have it in both.

01:07:31.000 It just started in my other foot for Faber.

01:07:34.000 And then by the Cody fight, it's been out of control.

01:07:39.000 I'd done three camps and I'd done a year.

01:07:41.000 A year of nonstop work after that year off.

01:07:45.000 And what can you do to heal it?

01:07:46.000 No excuses.

01:07:46.000 I want to go ahead and make this point right now.

01:07:48.000 There's no excuses for that.

01:07:50.000 I did pretty good at wrapping it.

01:07:53.000 I shot Botox in the bottom of both my feet.

01:07:56.000 Botox?

01:07:57.000 It was the worst thing I've ever gone through.

01:07:58.000 Why does Botox...

01:08:00.000 What does that do for you?

01:08:01.000 Well, the idea with Botox is it was an off-the-wall method because there's no cure for plantar fascia tendonitis.

01:08:07.000 So you just improvised this?

01:08:08.000 Yes, because I was...

01:08:09.000 Well, I heard it from other doctors.

01:08:11.000 It's an underground method.

01:08:13.000 It's like I was just willing to do anything, Joe.

01:08:15.000 Like, I was in so much pain, dude.

01:08:16.000 I couldn't...

01:08:17.000 I'd wake up in the morning...

01:08:19.000 And I'd have to go on my hands and knees to the bathtub so I wouldn't put weight on my feet.

01:08:23.000 I'm not kidding.

01:08:24.000 This is during fight camp?

01:08:25.000 Oh yeah.

01:08:26.000 So I wouldn't put weight on my feet because they're too cold.

01:08:29.000 So it's like needles, you know?

01:08:31.000 So you have to warm them up first so that the fasciitis doesn't get worse.

01:08:36.000 So I fill up a tub with hot water and Epsom salt and then...

01:08:44.000 I had to fill that up by going on my hands and knees because you don't want to put weight on it early.

01:08:47.000 This is a method I heard from a runner that he used in order to heal his.

01:08:52.000 And so I tried it for about a month.

01:08:55.000 I would fill it up and then I soak my feet every morning.

01:08:57.000 Then after I soak them, I have a tape routine that I have on both my feet.

01:09:01.000 I tape both my feet like you would picture taping your hands.

01:09:04.000 And then I wear my shoes and I warm up my feet before I get there at the gym and then I'd go.

01:09:12.000 But that was for all three of the fights this last year.

01:09:15.000 I've had to deal with that.

01:09:16.000 And I actually did a really good job minimizing the pain.

01:09:19.000 And the Botox...

01:09:20.000 First, I shot cortisone in them.

01:09:22.000 And that didn't help.

01:09:23.000 It numbed it a little bit, but it didn't help.

01:09:25.000 I shot it after...

01:09:26.000 When I fought TJ and I was getting kicked in the leg, like you say, and I was...

01:09:29.000 That was my foot being tore.

01:09:31.000 Like, the fascia actually completely tore off the heel in that fight.

01:09:34.000 That hurt.

01:09:35.000 That I felt.

01:09:36.000 I've never felt anything really in a fight.

01:09:38.000 That I felt when it popped.

01:09:39.000 And that's how I knew.

01:09:40.000 I was like, I said, I was like, I think my foot's tore in half or something.

01:09:44.000 Because it just, I felt it when it popped open in that fifth round.

01:09:47.000 And I had about four minutes left of the round. 0.98

01:09:50.000 And I remember like, oh shit, you better hit it. 0.99

01:09:53.000 You better figure something out. 0.99

01:09:54.000 And then, you know, you could tell I was staying a little bit more stationary, I think, and that's why the kick started to land.

01:09:59.000 But that's the way it goes, man.

01:10:02.000 We're in the fight business.

01:10:03.000 All of us go in there with injuries.

01:10:04.000 I'm not making excuses, but people want to know, you know, injuries, we all go in there injured.

01:10:09.000 I'm not, like, almost all of us do with something.

01:10:11.000 And a lot of high-level Like marathon runners deal with this foot problem that I have and they run marathons with it.

01:10:18.000 So it can be done, but it's just an extra hindrance.

01:10:21.000 It's very difficult.

01:10:22.000 And going barefoot with it is the hardest part.

01:10:26.000 That's true, right?

01:10:26.000 Because at least marathon runners can wear shoes.

01:10:28.000 And that helps because I have orthotics and there's supports you can put.

01:10:32.000 That keep the support.

01:10:34.000 But I have a high arch, and so what that means is the arch, there's a fascia that holds everything in place, and the arch starts to fail, and that's what that needle feeling is.

01:10:42.000 It's like it's the fascia on the bottom of your foot.

01:10:45.000 Because I'm always on my toes, it just wasn't ready for the brunt from zero to hero, and then it kind of put a bunch of lesions in it, and now how do you heal those?

01:10:54.000 Now, can you tape it with an orthotic underneath?

01:10:58.000 No, because then you have orthotics stuck to the bottom of your feet while you're hopping around.

01:11:02.000 But in training, can you do that?

01:11:04.000 Well, I wear my wrestling shoes and I tape my feet.

01:11:06.000 Tape my feet and wear wrestling shoes with my supports in there.

01:11:10.000 And what methods of healing can they sort of use?

01:11:16.000 There isn't any.

01:11:17.000 Nothing?

01:11:18.000 This is why I use Botox.

01:11:18.000 Stem cells?

01:11:20.000 I was actually thinking of getting some stem cells put in my elbows and my shoulders and my knees coming up, but for my feet, PRP and stem cell is all just, it's all just, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

01:11:35.000 Anything you look at, if you Google plantar fat, they have no cure for it.

01:11:39.000 It's a worldwide problem that there's no cure for.

01:11:43.000 Where are you going to get the stem cell stuff done?

01:11:46.000 Well, I've only talked to people about it, but I'd be more than happy to get with you on it.

01:11:50.000 I'm sure you've got some hookups, because I need the best in the world, obviously.

01:11:53.000 There's a guy in Vegas, Dr. Roddy McGee.

01:11:56.000 He's the best.

01:11:57.000 He's worked with a lot of UFC fighters.

01:11:59.000 Daniel told me he's worked with people before...

01:12:01.000 Cormier?

01:12:01.000 Yeah.

01:12:02.000 Cormier's guy does...

01:12:03.000 Well, there's a bunch of different ways to do it.

01:12:05.000 Cormier's guy went into his hip, and they pulled bone marrow out of his hip, and it's super painful.

01:12:10.000 And then they get your own stem cells from that.

01:12:13.000 The way the guy in Vegas does it, they're taking the stem cells when a woman has a cesarean section.

01:12:19.000 When she gives birth through cesarean section, they take away the placenta. 0.94

01:12:23.000 They usually just throw it out, but they can take that placenta and extract stem cells from it. 0.55

01:12:27.000 I'd rather have that than some of DC's bones.

01:12:29.000 That's for sure.

01:12:31.000 You don't want them digging in your bone.

01:12:32.000 It's super painful on your hip, too.

01:12:34.000 Yeah, he was talking about how he was limping for a couple weeks.

01:12:37.000 He's big bone, though.

01:12:38.000 I could go all day on his jokes with DC. Yeah, he's a big fella.

01:12:41.000 You know, it's interesting.

01:12:44.000 Somebody said to me once that DC should be fighting middleweight.

01:12:46.000 I'm like, go stand next to him and say that.

01:12:48.000 His core is like this thick.

01:12:50.000 Yeah, he's a tank.

01:12:52.000 He's a big dude.

01:12:53.000 Yeah, he might only be 5'10".

01:12:54.000 Well, they say that because he's a little chubby, but he's stronger than anybody can imagine.

01:12:59.000 You don't pick up Dan Henderson.

01:13:01.000 How about Josh Barnett?

01:13:02.000 Remember when he was fighting heavyweight in Strikeforce?

01:13:05.000 He picked up Josh Barnett like he was a pillow and slammed him on the ground. 0.99

01:13:08.000 That's what I mean.

01:13:08.000 The guy...

01:13:10.000 It blows my mind how good he is.

01:13:13.000 And I don't think people give him enough credit.

01:13:16.000 I know DC on a training level when I watch him train on a personal level.

01:13:21.000 I mean, he's DC. He's crazy. 0.97

01:13:22.000 He's always talking out of his butt, you know, to an extent. 1.00

01:13:25.000 It's hilarious. 0.99

01:13:27.000 But... 0.97

01:13:28.000 He's a beast, man.

01:13:29.000 You gotta respect that.

01:13:31.000 Yeah, I love that guy.

01:13:32.000 Me too.

01:13:32.000 He's a great guy.

01:13:34.000 He's in the era of Jon Jones, and he lost to Jon in his first fight, and he's also dealing with the fact that Jon, although I love Jon too, Jon's a fuck-up. 0.97

01:13:44.000 And so he's gotta sort of be there while Jon keeps fucking up, and then a lot of it comes back to him.

01:13:49.000 But that's where I look at DC and why I try to give him all the respect in the world I can, because I don't feel that people... 0.98

01:13:56.000 Give enough respect to DC for the fact that he's not fucking up. 0.95

01:13:59.000 Right. 0.94

01:13:59.000 No, he's a great guy. 0.94

01:14:01.000 How does that get overlooked?

01:14:02.000 Well, I think a lot of it has to do with people can connect to fuck-ups.

01:14:06.000 Yeah. 0.92

01:14:07.000 Two.

01:14:07.000 There's that.

01:14:08.000 You know, I mean, and Jon Jones is that good.

01:14:12.000 That's the other thing.

01:14:13.000 He's literally that good.

01:14:15.000 He's that good he could beat you after he did coke three weeks ago.

01:14:17.000 I don't know what to say about that.

01:14:19.000 That's the thing about John.

01:14:20.000 I'm good enough to win after three surgeries.

01:14:22.000 So let's see.

01:14:23.000 We can test the waters on both.

01:14:25.000 Let's see who does what.

01:14:26.000 I'll do a line of coke next time and then try to jump in there and see how I do and let's blow his knees out three times and then we'll see who's better. 1.00

01:14:32.000 Well, that's a different animal.

01:14:34.000 It's interesting that sometimes people are just supremely talented physically.

01:14:38.000 And they don't have to deal with as many trials and tribulations in that regard.

01:14:43.000 He's very gifted.

01:14:46.000 It's interesting.

01:14:47.000 I've always said this.

01:14:48.000 There's a way that John gets a hold of people that you could almost tell when he gets a hold of them that they really have never felt anything like that before.

01:14:58.000 And you saw it with DC. DC, who's a supremely talented wrestler.

01:15:02.000 One of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA. Period.

01:15:06.000 Jon Jones got a hold of him, and you could see DC was like, oh, shit. 1.00

01:15:10.000 Like, this guy is no joke. 0.99

01:15:12.000 I agree.

01:15:13.000 I mean...

01:15:14.000 Jon's a stud.

01:15:17.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:15:17.000 He's a fucking stud. 1.00

01:15:18.000 He's that good. 1.00

01:15:19.000 He's that good.

01:15:20.000 So is DC, though.

01:15:21.000 DC could still beat him.

01:15:22.000 I really believe that.

01:15:23.000 It's entirely possible.

01:15:25.000 If I had to choose, I would probably...

01:15:27.000 If I had to choose on paper, you'd take Jones, depending on how healthy he is.

01:15:32.000 Well, DC was so furious that he didn't fight him in the Ovin St. Prue fight because he was like, I would have beat that Jon Jones.

01:15:37.000 Because I did commentary with him in that fight.

01:15:39.000 He's like, I would have beat that Jon Jones.

01:15:40.000 And here's another thing on that, okay?

01:15:43.000 Because...

01:15:45.000 How's that?

01:15:45.000 That might not be true either.

01:15:47.000 Right.

01:15:47.000 Because that Jon Jones would have trained differently for you than he trained for Ovin St. Prue.

01:15:52.000 Of course, yeah.

01:15:52.000 And he hates— Well, the Ovin St. Prue was a very late replacement, right?

01:15:56.000 Don't forget this, though.

01:15:57.000 I mean, how much does he hate DC? He's not going to let that get away from him.

01:16:00.000 Oh, yeah.

01:16:01.000 It's a different level of training you're doing for different people and where your emotions are with that human being.

01:16:05.000 That's a really good point.

01:16:06.000 It is.

01:16:07.000 But don't you think that was a big factor in the first fight as well?

01:16:09.000 Because DC was very emotionally wrapped up in fighting John.

01:16:12.000 It was very intense because he had never had anybody disrespect him like that.

01:16:15.000 They had that fist fight at the press conference.

01:16:18.000 That definitely had to do with it.

01:16:19.000 Sure.

01:16:19.000 Of course.

01:16:20.000 That has to do with every fight.

01:16:21.000 It has to do with my fights.

01:16:22.000 It has to do with all of them.

01:16:23.000 You have to calculate.

01:16:24.000 It had to do with Conor McGregor's fights, Ronda Rousey's fights, Anderson Silva's fights when he's shellboating.

01:16:29.000 Everything.

01:16:30.000 I mean, you can go...

01:16:31.000 The list goes on of the mental...

01:16:33.000 Problems that a lot of these athletes have had and usually if the mental isn't there they lose.

01:16:37.000 It comes down to that.

01:16:39.000 And you also got to go back to the way Daniel Cormier handled rumble.

01:16:42.000 He's the only guy that's been able to eat rumble shots, absorb them and come back and break them.

01:16:49.000 Yeah, he ate that right hand and just hit his head on the floor, woke back up, and then went after it.

01:16:55.000 And that's respectable, too, that I don't think fans or anybody can really understand what it takes to get slightly knocked out, stand back up, and want to keep going.

01:17:07.000 That's a different level of understanding of this sport.

01:17:09.000 As an athlete, when I watch a fighter go through that and keep their composure, move around, and deal with that problem, And then even if they lose but stay in the fight and go the distance and tough it out, like Diego Sench is a great example of that.

01:17:23.000 Yeah.

01:17:24.000 It's like, how do you not respect and have a real logical understanding that that human being is built from something different?

01:17:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:32.000 That's insane.

01:17:34.000 There's fighters that come back, and there's fighters that almost never come back.

01:17:38.000 It's really interesting.

01:17:39.000 We were talking about BJ Penn, one of the all-time greats.

01:17:42.000 I can't remember a fight where BJ was losing, where he came back and won. 0.99

01:17:47.000 Frankie Edgar, on the other hand, you can never count that motherfucker out, ever. 0.96

01:17:51.000 Frankie Edgar, in the Grey Maynard fights, those two chaotic fights, was so close to being stopped in the first round, where Grey Maynard is putting it on him, and Frankie's going down and down again and stumbling around the octagon, and Grey keeps catching him, 0.98

01:18:07.000 and Frankie goes on to stop him.

01:18:10.000 I mean, that was insane.

01:18:12.000 Those two fights were insane.

01:18:13.000 And he should go down as one of the best ever fights.

01:18:15.000 You know, I mean, it's like stuff like that.

01:18:17.000 Both of those fights.

01:18:18.000 The one where they won to a draw, and then the other one when he beat them.

01:18:21.000 And it's true. 0.56

01:18:21.000 I mean, you gotta... 0.56

01:18:22.000 It's hard, though, because there's so many crazy fights that you can give credit to everybody.

01:18:26.000 And it's like, how do you really dictate who gets what, where?

01:18:32.000 Because we're all putting our life out there on the line, too.

01:18:35.000 So every single one of these is just as serious as the next.

01:18:38.000 And every single one of us has sacrificed just as much as the next.

01:18:41.000 So at what point do you really start drawing the line as to who is the best and who isn't?

01:18:46.000 I think it has to come down to who stays the best the longest.

01:18:49.000 Yeah, no, I agree with you.

01:18:50.000 I mean, how else do you really...

01:18:53.000 That's why I put Fedor over Kane as the best heavyweight of all time, although I still think I maintain that Kane, when he was at his best, as far as what I see him, what he was able to do to guys, and what I see from his performance inside the octagon,

01:19:08.000 especially his cardio as a heavyweight, his clean technique, his wrestling, the pace he puts on guys, his chin, I don't think there's been ever anybody like Kane.

01:19:17.000 I think Kane, when he was at his prime, was the best I've ever seen.

01:19:20.000 I never got to see Fedor fight live, but I would say if you have to give an all-time great to a heavyweight, I kind of lean towards Fedor because he stayed on top longer, beat more guys longer.

01:19:31.000 Who did he beat compared to Kane?

01:19:33.000 Noguera in his prime, Krokop in his prime, fought some freaks like Semmy Schilt, took him down. 0.65

01:19:40.000 Yeah, and that was in the early days.

01:19:41.000 Yeah, the early days.

01:19:43.000 When it was still very limited knowledge.

01:19:45.000 And it was wild rules as far as supplements go.

01:19:48.000 It really was.

01:19:48.000 Wow!

01:19:49.000 Take whatever you want, motherfucker. 1.00

01:19:50.000 Let's get this party going. 1.00

01:19:51.000 Let's see if we can get you bigger than Joe Rogan.

01:19:54.000 Everybody's bigger than me, man.

01:19:56.000 I'm tiny compared to Cro Cop at 42. Okay, bigger than Lorenzo.

01:20:00.000 Lorenzo's a gorilla.

01:20:01.000 Yeah, yoked.

01:20:02.000 But Cro Cop just won the Rising Grand Prix.

01:20:04.000 I mean, he's a shell of himself in the UFC under USADA testing.

01:20:08.000 They send him off to Japan and all of a sudden he's super Cro Cop again.

01:20:12.000 Looked sensational.

01:20:13.000 I didn't see that.

01:20:14.000 Oh, he looked fantastic.

01:20:15.000 Missed that one.

01:20:16.000 Kickboxing looked fantastic.

01:20:17.000 Well, he went and did some kickboxing, looked really good in kickboxing again, and then fought in Risen and won their heavyweight Grand Prix.

01:20:23.000 I mean, he looked extraordinary.

01:20:25.000 He looked like the Crow Cop of old. 1.00

01:20:27.000 He really did.

01:20:28.000 He really turned back the clock.

01:20:29.000 I'm about to watch it.

01:20:30.000 And then he decided, I'm good.

01:20:31.000 I'm done.

01:20:32.000 I ended my career with an amazing high note.

01:20:35.000 That's awesome.

01:20:36.000 Yeah.

01:20:36.000 And very rare do people come back and do that.

01:20:39.000 Yeah.

01:20:39.000 You need a little help.

01:20:41.000 Huh?

01:20:41.000 You need a little help from Dr. Mexican Supplements.

01:20:46.000 Well, I mean, Ricky Bobby said it best, huh?

01:20:50.000 What'd he say?

01:20:51.000 You ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

01:20:52.000 Is that what he said?

01:20:52.000 I thought it was, you ain't first, you're last.

01:20:54.000 Maybe it's both, or maybe I stole that from a different movie.

01:20:57.000 If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying, that's like real old, right?

01:21:00.000 Yeah, maybe that was somebody else.

01:21:02.000 Maybe it was just, I don't know.

01:21:04.000 Yeah, no, but...

01:21:05.000 Some old guy yelling at me.

01:21:06.000 I mean, there's that, but that, you always have to have that asterisk next to Pride, that there was no drug testing.

01:21:11.000 And I've had Ensign anyway here on a couple times where Ensign was talking about it.

01:21:15.000 They're in the contracts.

01:21:16.000 It said in capital letters, we will not test you for steroids.

01:21:21.000 And Ensign was laughing about it. 1.00

01:21:23.000 He's like, what the fuck? 1.00

01:21:24.000 Like, is this what I'm fighting? 1.00

01:21:26.000 They were just telling you, like, we want to have some fun.

01:21:28.000 Yeah, but I remember even, because I was part of the sport in that era, and I'm so glad.

01:21:33.000 I really am so glad I was part of the sport during that time.

01:21:36.000 And I was just coming up, and I was like maybe 2-3-0 at this point.

01:21:40.000 I can specifically remember a time having to make a decision at 21 years old.

01:21:45.000 Do I want to be in the IFL? Do I want to go try out for the Ultimate Fighter?

01:21:50.000 Or do I just keep working my three jobs, coaching wrestling, doing what I'm doing here in Tucson as a janitor, stay with my money, and just be patient and keep winning fights until I get there?

01:22:01.000 And I was 20 years old.

01:22:04.000 They were offering me $2,000 a month to fight in the IFL with the Sabres, which was...

01:22:14.000 This was, you know, forever ago.

01:22:17.000 And $2,000 a month for me would have changed my life.

01:22:20.000 I'm 20 years old.

01:22:21.000 I'm living paycheck to paycheck and I'm doing all these jobs.

01:22:24.000 I can quit all my jobs and focus on training 24-7.

01:22:27.000 That's my mindset with $2,000 a month.

01:22:29.000 Heck yeah, I can do that.

01:22:30.000 That's the way to go.

01:22:32.000 But wait a second.

01:22:33.000 There is no 135-pound weight class.

01:22:35.000 There's no 145-pound weight class.

01:22:36.000 It's only 155 and up.

01:22:38.000 So I'm already eating as much as I can, trying to put weight on and get into the weight class to fight at 155 pounds.

01:22:45.000 What do you walk around at?

01:22:46.000 Like right now?

01:22:47.000 Now I'm walking around 55, 60. But then at 20 years old, 42. You know, 142 pounds.

01:22:55.000 Trying to eat everything I can in sight.

01:22:57.000 And between that and 50, you know, 150. So I said, you're too small for that, I felt.

01:23:05.000 If they lock you into that contract for two grand a month, they're going to throw you out there, you're going to lose twice, they're going to cut you, and then you didn't get any money and you lost.

01:23:11.000 Now you've got two losses on your record because these guys are monsters.

01:23:16.000 And...

01:23:17.000 How do you come back from that?

01:23:18.000 So I said, alright, I'm going to say no to the IFL. I'm going to go try out for the Ultimate Fighter.

01:23:22.000 Tried out for the Ultimate Fighter.

01:23:23.000 Didn't get in.

01:23:25.000 Lost that opportunity.

01:23:26.000 So then I just kept training and that's when I got my first fight at 6-0.

01:23:30.000 I was 5-0.

01:23:31.000 Got an offer on two days notice to go fight in total combat, which is now my coach, Eric Del Ferro's promotion back then.

01:23:38.000 He was a promoter.

01:23:40.000 And I took the fight, fought it, and then I met Eric.

01:23:43.000 And that was the beginning of that.

01:23:44.000 Wow, so you were living in Arizona at the time and that's how you moved down to San Diego?

01:23:48.000 Tucson, yeah.

01:23:49.000 Tucson, Arizona.

01:23:50.000 I was raised there from two years old until I was 21, until I moved to San Diego and fought Faber.

01:23:56.000 Faber fight in 2007 was the first camp I ever had a coach.

01:24:00.000 Never had a coach before that point.

01:24:03.000 I'd never been to Vegas.

01:24:05.000 I just legally able to go there.

01:24:09.000 There's a lot of things I've never gotten to do.

01:24:11.000 It was incredible to get to do that back then.

01:24:14.000 First fight ever on television in the WEC. It was the WEC. I got to fight in front of Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz in the audience.

01:24:23.000 Weird things like that that I remember that was like, what am I doing here?

01:24:26.000 What am I doing here?

01:24:28.000 I made it.

01:24:30.000 Just to be part of the game at that point, Diego Sanchez is the man at 185 pounds.

01:24:38.000 Get to train.

01:24:39.000 That was Ultimate Fighter season one when he won the Ultimate Fighter.

01:24:42.000 Those are the guys I'm watching saying, I'm gonna do this.

01:24:46.000 Wow.

01:24:46.000 So when you tried out for the Ultimate Fighter, what season was it?

01:24:50.000 I think it was like two or three tops.

01:24:52.000 Wow.

01:24:52.000 So you were trying at 55 then?

01:24:54.000 I was.

01:24:55.000 Wow.

01:24:55.000 And I have three fights at 55. I have three fights at 45 if I remember right.

01:25:01.000 Also Wow, so at the time when this was going on 2005 when you started out was right when Stephen Bonner and Forrest Griffin had that epic fight in the finals the ultimate fighter season one and it launched MMA Yeah, and that's what made me decide and that's when I'm going to school You see so I'm like alright this thing is this is the time if you're gonna do it Get in now and just see what you can do with it.

01:25:27.000 Go all in, Dom.

01:25:28.000 You might make it.

01:25:29.000 Or keep going to school.

01:25:32.000 I wanted to be an EMT firefighter.

01:25:34.000 That was the goal.

01:25:35.000 And it was like, you know, what do I do?

01:25:38.000 I have so much stability here.

01:25:40.000 I got three jobs.

01:25:41.000 I got money coming in.

01:25:43.000 I'm comfortable.

01:25:43.000 I'm going to school.

01:25:44.000 I'm doing the picture-perfect 20-, 19-, 20-year-old vision for a kid who wants to be something, right?

01:25:51.000 Going to school, working.

01:25:54.000 Threw it all away and just said, screw it.

01:25:57.000 And it was nerve wracking.

01:25:59.000 But like I said, I didn't do it until I asked my mom.

01:26:01.000 My mom didn't even, the fact that she didn't even like think about it, like I didn't think about it.

01:26:07.000 Wow.

01:26:07.000 I didn't even think about it.

01:26:08.000 I just quit my jobs, packed all my shit up in an eclipse.

01:26:12.000 My car couldn't make it to California, so I had to have my friend's truck tow it on a trailer. 0.79

01:26:18.000 Whoa.

01:26:18.000 With everything I owned in the car and then we drove in the truck.

01:26:21.000 So my truck basically became a shed for everything I owned.

01:26:24.000 Or my car did.

01:26:25.000 My car became a shed for everything I owned, you know?

01:26:28.000 Wow.

01:26:28.000 But so many stories like that.

01:26:30.000 Come on.

01:26:31.000 I mean, how many MMA fighters have that story?

01:26:32.000 A ton.

01:26:33.000 Well, what is interesting to go back to your style, your very unique style, is that you really did come along when the sport was in its...

01:26:40.000 I wouldn't say it's infancy, but it was like a teenager at the time.

01:26:43.000 The sport was really only 12, 13 years old.

01:26:46.000 And I'm so glad I got in it then, because that exact fact, what you just mentioned, is why I knew I could do something different.

01:26:53.000 That's why.

01:26:54.000 Because it was growing and there was so much room.

01:26:56.000 It was too new.

01:26:57.000 Yeah.

01:26:57.000 I could do things nobody had ever seen and it wasn't wrong anymore.

01:27:01.000 Right.

01:27:01.000 Because this is new.

01:27:02.000 Right. 1.00

01:27:02.000 And if you say I'm wrong, I say fuck you. 1.00

01:27:04.000 I'm going to do it my way because this is new. 1.00

01:27:06.000 Right.

01:27:06.000 There wasn't an established orthodox like Bernard Hopkins style.

01:27:10.000 There was though.

01:27:11.000 And I got ridiculed my whole career.

01:27:14.000 You're not supposed to do that.

01:27:16.000 You're boxing.

01:27:17.000 You're not supposed to do that.

01:27:18.000 You're kickboxing.

01:27:18.000 You're not supposed to do that.

01:27:19.000 You're wrestling.

01:27:20.000 But I'm not doing any of those things.

01:27:21.000 I'm doing them all mixed together.

01:27:23.000 So how are you telling me I'm doing something wrong right now?

01:27:25.000 Well, one of the things you said about you, I've said, if you watch Dominic Cruz fight, I would tell you, don't fight like that. 0.95

01:27:33.000 But look how goddamn good he is at it. 0.81

01:27:35.000 So you can't say don't fight like that. 0.96

01:27:38.000 Because he's not just like, the way you throw punches, the way you move and throw punches, and throw punches from odd angles, you could tell someone, if someone was like a very traditional, technical coach, you would say that is the wrong way to throw punches.

01:27:51.000 But I would say no. 0.61

01:27:52.000 Because look, he's fucking landing them, and they're hurting the guy, and he uses them a lot, and he's very effective with it. 0.97

01:27:59.000 Always be my argument with every conventional coach, and this is why. 0.98

01:28:03.000 I break what makes them relevant.

01:28:06.000 Well, it's not necessarily you break what makes them relevant.

01:28:09.000 You figure out a way to make your style work in a way that confounds the experts.

01:28:14.000 Well, what I mean by that is when they talk to me.

01:28:17.000 So, like, maybe not to... 1.00

01:28:19.000 20 million other people, they are the shit. 0.99

01:28:21.000 But when you try to tell me that, and I can't tell you how many countless world champion kickboxing coaches go, only you can do that. 1.00

01:28:30.000 You're awesome.

01:28:31.000 Keep doing it.

01:28:32.000 And I couldn't disagree more.

01:28:34.000 Well, anybody can do it if they mimic your movements, and your movements aren't like Cirque du Soleil movements that you have to be physically gifted in order to pull off or work towards them for a hundred years.

01:28:44.000 Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and break it down, but there are obviously movements that I'm doing, and they can be read.

01:28:49.000 It took 30 rounds to figure out with the same camp for 10 years, but they figured it out.

01:28:54.000 Right.

01:28:55.000 They can imitate you.

01:28:56.000 You ever see Justin Buchholz do you?

01:28:58.000 They know what they're doing, but who else has fought somebody as much as they've fought me?

01:29:04.000 I mean, think about it.

01:29:05.000 Benavidez twice, Faber twice, TJ Dillashaw, Charlie Valencia has fought with them.

01:29:10.000 Scott Jorgensen trained with them before I fought him.

01:29:14.000 Ian McCall trained with them for a tiny bit of time before I fought him.

01:29:18.000 Essentially, every single person I've ever fought for the past 10 years has at some point been friends with Faber, trained with that camp because they were the little guy camp, while I said, why join them if you can beat them?

01:29:29.000 And I just did it my own way and let them all hate me and train together.

01:29:33.000 And it was okay with me, you know?

01:29:35.000 I needed to do things my way in order to build something different in a game that hadn't really caught up to the things that I was thinking about yet, in my opinion.

01:29:45.000 It didn't make me the only one that was right in these things.

01:29:48.000 It's just how I used the things that I used.

01:29:50.000 They had theirs too.

01:29:52.000 But my whole mindset was, like I said, if I fight like them, I'm going to be like them and they're going to adjust to me like they adjust to everybody else.

01:30:01.000 Now, going back to the early days when you sort of learned the style, we kind of got off this, but I really wanted to touch back on it.

01:30:07.000 When you said that your style, no one had your style before.

01:30:13.000 No one could tell you that it...

01:30:15.000 It was the wrong way to do it because you were being very effective with it.

01:30:18.000 But did you take it from anywhere?

01:30:20.000 Did you look at boxing footage?

01:30:22.000 Did you look at kickboxing or Muay Thai?

01:30:25.000 Where did you get all your footwork from?

01:30:27.000 Well, there's a mixture of things.

01:30:28.000 One, it all started with me fighting at 155 pounds weighing 142 pounds.

01:30:34.000 That's where this whole mindset started.

01:30:36.000 So it was, they're already twice as big as you, and on fight day, they're gonna be three times as big as you.

01:30:41.000 So you better not get touched, you better not get grabbed, and you better not get hit at all.

01:30:45.000 Don't let them touch you, because they're too big.

01:30:47.000 If they take you down, your energy's gonna be zapped by the time you do get up, if you get up.

01:30:51.000 And if they hit you, they're big and strong, and they're probably gonna put you out.

01:30:55.000 So you have to use all that strength, all that size against them, and make it their weakness instead of their strength.

01:31:01.000 And that's how I started, because I was so little.

01:31:04.000 I said, alright, I need to focus on defense.

01:31:07.000 Obviously, I've got to hurt them too, but after they do what they're trying to do with their big strength and be stronger and be more powerful and be more athletic, they're going to wear themselves out.

01:31:16.000 Now we're even.

01:31:18.000 Middle or round two, all those things that they had early, we're even now.

01:31:22.000 Now I can just outthink them and pick them apart and beat them.

01:31:25.000 I always had that mentality rather than Fight fire with fire.

01:31:30.000 It just didn't make sense to me when my body was on the line.

01:31:33.000 I wanted the path of least resistance.

01:31:35.000 And so it started with that until I got to about 5-0, fought in total combat.

01:31:41.000 I took that fight on two days notice, went out there with no coaches, no corner men, and went by myself, and they just picked random corner men and put them out there.

01:31:49.000 That night was why Eric liked me, because he saw I took it at short notice, won it.

01:31:54.000 It was a tough fight, but I had no corpsman.

01:31:56.000 I came solo on a flight and just went.

01:31:59.000 And so he's like, okay, I can work with this.

01:32:01.000 This guy wants to do it.

01:32:02.000 So he picked me up, but then that's really when the progression started, meeting Eric.

01:32:07.000 And that's because I'd never had...

01:32:09.000 I mean, I had pads held for me here and there in Tucson, but only if guys were getting $65 to do it or...

01:32:28.000 Right.

01:32:31.000 So I wasn't getting pad work.

01:32:33.000 I wasn't getting one-on-one training.

01:32:35.000 I lined up my own coaching.

01:32:37.000 I'd have guys that knew what they were doing, being pro boxers, pro high-level wrestlers, high-level blue belts at this time, and roll and wrestle and make my own team and my own coaches with the people that I had available, but I didn't have a head.

01:32:51.000 And when I found Eric, I won that fight, found Eric, and he said, I'll coach you, I'll get you a manager, and I'll get all this figured out for you.

01:32:58.000 That's what I was really looking for.

01:33:01.000 That's why I went to California and got out of Tucson, because I knew I wasn't finding that in Tucson.

01:33:07.000 When I went there and got that, it was like a gift.

01:33:09.000 I was like, this is what I'm talking about.

01:33:11.000 I knew if I went there and won with no one in my corner, somebody would want to pick me up.

01:33:15.000 And they did.

01:33:16.000 Eric did.

01:33:17.000 And we've stayed together ever since.

01:33:18.000 So was your style something that you worked on with Eric?

01:33:23.000 Like, Learning those footwork drills.

01:33:25.000 When you came to him, you essentially were a smaller guy who was fighting bigger guys and had to be a little trickier in your movement.

01:33:33.000 Where were you getting that stuff from?

01:33:35.000 Well, now, when I meet Eric, I'm no longer the smaller guy fighting bigger guys because, well, a little bit, but 45 is now allowed.

01:33:44.000 Now 145 pounds is just getting into these small shows, not just the WEC. So by the time I meet Eric at 6-0, I take that fight on two days notice at 145 pounds.

01:33:56.000 But I was getting ready to fight at 155 in Colorado for a world title.

01:34:00.000 But the whole show got canceled.

01:34:01.000 That's why I was in shape to take the fight on two days notice.

01:34:04.000 So when I met Eric...

01:34:06.000 The 45-pound weight class was there.

01:34:08.000 55 was the one that was basking.

01:34:12.000 So that was how I got into the UFC. But your question exactly was what?

01:34:18.000 How did you devise your movement?

01:34:20.000 How did you devise your footwork?

01:34:22.000 Did you study other stuff?

01:34:23.000 Did you learn it with Eric?

01:34:24.000 Did you guys put it together?

01:34:27.000 Honestly, I had a couple things that I did naturally, and then Eric has a skill set where if you have a natural movement, he doesn't tell you to fix it.

01:34:38.000 He lets you do it and then has you add a weapon to it.

01:34:42.000 That's his gift.

01:34:43.000 And I had a lot of those little weird, odd things that I did.

01:34:46.000 And those weird, odd things you had just devised to learn how to get away from bigger people.

01:34:50.000 Yeah, and it was a mixture of wrestling stance with punching and kicking.

01:34:56.000 If you watch wrestling, there's no set stance.

01:35:00.000 There's no set.

01:35:01.000 You know what I mean?

01:35:02.000 If you watch college, high school, like the highest level wrestlers, it's all fluent motion in both stances.

01:35:09.000 So I made fighting that because I started out wrestling.

01:35:12.000 And then I added the punches and the kicks to that motion.

01:35:15.000 Instead of trying to change what I already did with my wrestling and try to make it this way, he just let me do what I did Up to 5-0 with my wrestling and whatever I taught myself, and then he just tightened it up and made it into a pro-level look to an extent.

01:35:31.000 Speed, timing, range, these type of things.

01:35:35.000 And now, do you have it now as a system?

01:35:37.000 Do you have it organized?

01:35:39.000 Do you have it written down?

01:35:40.000 No, I have a system, but I'm a visual learner, so you could...

01:35:43.000 You can literally just do a movement in front of me and I'll learn it really quick.

01:35:47.000 But if you write it or I have to read it, I'll never get it.

01:35:51.000 I'm all visual.

01:35:54.000 There's certain things that I was running into when I would spar early on starting that I came up with habits to deal with because of my wrestling and not having a coach that instead of the coach saying, no, do this, I just adjusted and found my own answers.

01:36:11.000 And do you keep a training log of all these lessons that you learned?

01:36:14.000 No, I know them.

01:36:16.000 They're just all in your mind?

01:36:17.000 Yeah, I know them.

01:36:18.000 I know them.

01:36:18.000 I know them very well.

01:36:19.000 I've studied it.

01:36:20.000 And you're just 100% confident that you'll keep that stuff in your memory and you don't need to write it down?

01:36:23.000 No, I don't need to write it down because I drill it.

01:36:25.000 Right.

01:36:25.000 And once I have a memory, I don't just write it.

01:36:28.000 I do it.

01:36:28.000 I drill it.

01:36:30.000 I'll show Eric and I'll say, what do you think about this?

01:36:32.000 And he'll be like, okay, well I do this, this, and this to make it a little better and keep you da-da-da-da-da.

01:36:36.000 And we go, okay.

01:36:37.000 And then we use it.

01:36:38.000 But I mean, I'm using...

01:36:40.000 I'm not using the craziest moves in the world.

01:36:43.000 John Jones used crazy moves.

01:36:45.000 Certain people like Stephen Thompson has crazy moves, you know what I mean?

01:36:54.000 I'm actually using crazy movements to stay defensive and offensive simultaneously.

01:36:59.000 That's the idea, to do both at the same time.

01:37:02.000 And to be very hard to read.

01:37:04.000 Well, you're hard to read if you're being offensive and defensive at the same time.

01:37:07.000 Yeah, it's hard to read because you don't know if I'm being offensive or defensive.

01:37:10.000 It's one or the other or both.

01:37:13.000 I can do both because where I put myself, I'm defensively in a, generally speaking, when I've been doing very well in my matchups, I put myself in the gray area where even if you do hit me, it's limited power and I'm still able to hit you more than you're able to hit me,

01:37:31.000 basically.

01:37:32.000 That's the idea, generally.

01:37:34.000 Now, here you are.

01:37:35.000 You're coming off of the toughest loss of your career.

01:37:39.000 You lose to Cody Nolove in a very, very tough fight against a super talented guy.

01:37:44.000 Yeah.

01:37:44.000 How do you feel about that fight, and how do you feel right now?

01:37:47.000 I feel good.

01:37:49.000 I just want to heal up my body a little bit.

01:37:51.000 That year, doing the three camps, coming back after the couch, it just...

01:37:58.000 It was a hard year.

01:38:00.000 It was a good year.

01:38:01.000 Because you weren't conditioned when you went full bore in the camp?

01:38:03.000 When I first started, but that also affected my style.

01:38:06.000 If you look at the last three fights this year and my fights before the injuries, I threw a million more kicks.

01:38:12.000 Well, you looked outstanding against Uriah.

01:38:14.000 You looked like your body didn't look as good with TJ. You looked like you were a little softer.

01:38:18.000 That was the one where I was hurt.

01:38:19.000 That was the one where I was hurt.

01:38:21.000 You could tell.

01:38:21.000 You could tell physically by looking at you.

01:38:23.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:23.000 And by the Faber fight, I did strength training camp for that whole camp.

01:38:28.000 That's the difference of having a strength training camp and not having a strength training camp.

01:38:32.000 You could tell by the way you looked.

01:38:33.000 Right.

01:38:34.000 But my cardio was through the roof because I implemented sprints instead of strength training.

01:38:39.000 Whereas for the Faber fight, I could do strength training because I had enough time and my sprints.

01:38:43.000 Got it.

01:38:44.000 So I could double up on the workload.

01:38:46.000 To make my body stronger, more fast, more efficient, and more than anything, tougher.

01:38:51.000 To take damage better.

01:38:54.000 Your core, toughening up your core, everything.

01:38:56.000 Taking kicks, taking punches feels night and day different now.

01:38:59.000 Even for the Cody fight, I felt great.

01:39:01.000 I do look at that fight and I think, maybe I could have waited so I wouldn't overwork myself in that year with the training and stuff because...

01:39:13.000 It's one thing to take three fights in a year, and it's another thing to take three title fights in a year.

01:39:18.000 Anybody can say whatever they want.

01:39:19.000 I fought six times this year.

01:39:20.000 Yeah, but you didn't fight three.

01:39:22.000 You didn't go through three title fight camps and then fight these guys who are the best in the world.

01:39:26.000 That's a different thing.

01:39:28.000 And all three fights go into five rounds as well.

01:39:31.000 Yeah, and it's a lot of workload.

01:39:33.000 Um...

01:39:34.000 But the camp is really where the damage is done, not the fight.

01:39:37.000 The camps are just painful for five rounds, just the way it is.

01:39:41.000 But after getting through that fight with Cody, I feel like I just want to face the winner of those two.

01:39:46.000 I think that he had a good night.

01:39:48.000 Like I said, I fought that camp how many times, man?

01:39:52.000 Legitimately, if you had to break down, I mean, if you went back and looked at tape, you could probably break down 30 rounds with me in that camp.

01:40:01.000 That means they have all those reads on me through the years.

01:40:04.000 And then Cody started out watching me in junior high, high school. 0.99

01:40:07.000 And then the way I look at it is he's the one guy who could implement it because he looked up to the guys that wanted to beat me as they are the shit. 0.99

01:40:18.000 So it took down the ego. 0.97

01:40:34.000 Do you think TJ's learned a lot from Dwayne?

01:40:42.000 Was just like a sponge for these guys because he was young.

01:40:46.000 And so he came up in that camp as a youngster and nothing those guys could say to him would be wrong.

01:40:51.000 And so that made him very effective with what he's doing today.

01:40:54.000 And then he's built his style to be the champion, which was me.

01:40:59.000 I think a big factor in Cody's ability is also he came to MMA from boxing with very good hands.

01:41:07.000 Yes.

01:41:07.000 His hands are outstanding.

01:41:09.000 Yeah, but we expected that.

01:41:10.000 Right.

01:41:11.000 I'm sure you did, but I'm just saying that that's a big factor in his success in MMA, period.

01:41:15.000 Agreed.

01:41:16.000 Is that his boxing was already at a really high level before he entered into MMA. Well, he had a lot of...

01:41:21.000 I think even more than having boxing at a high level, it's just the rounds.

01:41:25.000 Yes.

01:41:25.000 It's the rounds.

01:41:26.000 It's the experience in the fights, more than even being good or not.

01:41:30.000 Like, he was good, obviously, but he had the rounds.

01:41:34.000 Right.

01:41:34.000 So he wasn't coming in green.

01:41:36.000 He was coming in as a 10-0 as an amateur.

01:41:39.000 Right.

01:41:39.000 I think?

01:42:02.000 They gave them experience in the matter.

01:42:04.000 And that's what the amateur system, you know, the amateur system is going to create a different level of up-and-comers now because they're not coming in as their record.

01:42:14.000 They're coming in as two or three times their record if you count their amateurs.

01:42:17.000 Yeah, that's always the thing that drives me crazy about people that jump right into the UFC. Like, I mean, not to pick on CM Punk, but the idea that CM Punk with no competition experience whatsoever is going to fight professionally in the biggest organization in the world.

01:42:32.000 It's a little offensive.

01:42:33.000 Really?

01:42:33.000 Yeah.

01:42:34.000 Why?

01:42:49.000 It's contrary to everything anyone has ever learned about learning and teaching and getting better at martial arts.

01:42:57.000 You don't just jump into the deep end of the pool when you're not some physical freak like Brock Lesnar or something like that.

01:43:03.000 You're talking about a guy who's a good athlete.

01:43:06.000 I mean CM Punk is...

01:43:07.000 but there's nothing unbelievable about him.

01:43:09.000 He's not some freak of nature.

01:43:11.000 So I would think that if this guy really did want to do this and do it the right way, Get him to go through it the right way like everybody else would.

01:43:19.000 Get him to start at small organizations.

01:43:21.000 Get him to learn martial arts.

01:43:23.000 So who's fault is that then?

01:43:23.000 Is it CM's fault?

01:43:24.000 Yes.

01:43:25.000 No.

01:43:26.000 No?

01:43:26.000 I don't think so.

01:43:27.000 Whose is it?

01:43:27.000 I don't agree.

01:43:28.000 Whose is it?

01:43:29.000 I think that CM Punk...

01:43:31.000 Is a genius for saying I could make a million dollars on this and go fight somebody.

01:43:35.000 Is that what he made?

01:43:36.000 Could have.

01:43:37.000 50,000.

01:43:38.000 He'd never fought in his life.

01:43:40.000 I paid $500 to fight my first five fights.

01:43:44.000 Right.

01:43:44.000 This is my point.

01:43:45.000 This is exactly the point I'm getting to.

01:43:46.000 Right.

01:43:47.000 He was already famous.

01:43:48.000 That's what the fight was for him.

01:43:50.000 But do you think that it should be approached that way?

01:43:53.000 No, but it's gonna keep happening.

01:43:56.000 That's what the UFC, to an extent, is promoting.

01:44:00.000 Right, because they're promoting promotion.

01:44:03.000 Not who deserves and not how good you are.

01:44:06.000 If you really look at what sells, Dada 5000 and freaking Kimbo Slice had record sales on these weird things.

01:44:15.000 And it's like, what sense does that make?

01:44:18.000 Is that fair?

01:44:19.000 Is that right?

01:44:19.000 No.

01:44:20.000 Is it selling?

01:44:21.000 Yes.

01:44:21.000 Why are people buying it?

01:44:22.000 Because they understand it?

01:44:23.000 But wouldn't you think that once you're already wealthy, like CM Punk is, he's already a millionaire, wouldn't you want to do it correctly rather than go for the big cash grab that's going to wind up getting your face punched in?

01:44:35.000 Like, if he was your friend, let's put it this way.

01:44:37.000 If he was my friend, I know exactly what I'd tell him.

01:44:39.000 You gotta learn how to fight.

01:44:40.000 You gotta learn how to fight the right way.

01:44:42.000 You gotta learn how to fight like everybody else does.

01:44:44.000 Slowly and surely.

01:44:45.000 You gotta train with the best people in the world and learn from your ability up.

01:44:50.000 Don't pretend you're already there.

01:44:52.000 Don't jump right into the UFC with a mean face on. 1.00

01:44:55.000 That's fucking crazy. 1.00

01:44:56.000 You're gonna get smashed. 1.00

01:44:57.000 And I respect you because you said that to Brandon Schaub.

01:45:00.000 Well, Shaw, it was also an issue of him being a very good friend of mine and also me knowing...

01:45:05.000 Like you said, a friend.

01:45:06.000 That's what you say to a friend.

01:45:07.000 You tell the friend the truth.

01:45:09.000 You don't just yes-man him.

01:45:10.000 I knew how many times he'd been knocked out.

01:45:11.000 I knew how many times he'd been knocked out in football.

01:45:13.000 I knew how many times he'd been knocked out in the gym.

01:45:16.000 And I knew he was having issues.

01:45:18.000 And I knew he wasn't able to take a punch like he used to anymore.

01:45:20.000 And I also knew that he also had a way out with podcasting and he was being really successful in it.

01:45:27.000 And he had a foot out the door.

01:45:28.000 He already had a foot out the door.

01:45:30.000 Yeah, and that's you being a good friend.

01:45:31.000 So all I'm saying is it's proof that you would say that.

01:45:34.000 That's proof that you're following through with what, you know, and that's rare.

01:45:37.000 But I would never stop CM Punk from competing. 0.99

01:45:40.000 What I would say is, hey man, have a fucking jujitsu match. 0.99

01:45:43.000 Have an amateur submission grappling match. 1.00

01:45:46.000 Have an amateur kickboxing match.

01:45:47.000 So why do you think he didn't?

01:45:48.000 Because he got a fuckload of money and because he thought he could do it.

01:45:51.000 Because he's a strong man.

01:45:53.000 He's got a strong mind.

01:45:54.000 He's like one of those straight edge guys that thinks he could just get a hard work pays off, you know, and just went out there.

01:46:00.000 And he's a huge celebrity.

01:46:01.000 And he felt like he was just going to ride that to a new career in the UFC. And I'm like, that's like saying you're just going to jump into NASCAR and you've never raced a car before.

01:46:11.000 You're going to wind up dead.

01:46:13.000 Well, that being said, then the only logical thing has to be the money in that decision for him.

01:46:18.000 Yes, 100%.

01:46:19.000 Money.

01:46:19.000 Money and delusion.

01:46:22.000 Delusional thinking.

01:46:22.000 What's the delusion?

01:46:23.000 Thinking that he's going to beat a guy like Mickey Gall.

01:46:26.000 It's delusional.

01:46:27.000 You think he really thought that, though, more than he wanted the money?

01:46:31.000 Yes.

01:46:31.000 100%.

01:46:32.000 I think he thought he could beat him.

01:46:34.000 I think he thought he could...

01:46:35.000 Look, he's training.

01:46:36.000 He wasn't training to lose.

01:46:37.000 He wasn't training to be 100% defensive.

01:46:39.000 He stepped forward and threw a wild right hand.

01:46:42.000 He didn't dance around the outside and try to avoid him.

01:46:45.000 He tried to win.

01:46:46.000 He stepped towards him and got taken down immediately and then got mauled.

01:46:50.000 You know what it's like when a guy has very little ground experience.

01:46:54.000 How long it takes before they actually become competent.

01:46:56.000 I mean, I watched that fight, so I already knew that was going to happen.

01:46:58.000 Of course.

01:46:59.000 You knew it was going to happen.

01:46:59.000 As soon as he went to the ground, you knew exactly what was going to play out, right?

01:47:02.000 But you said it's almost offensive.

01:47:04.000 I remember you saying that.

01:47:05.000 And it's like, who is it more offensive to?

01:47:10.000 Us as the fighters?

01:47:11.000 Or is it like, I don't know if I should be more mad at Mickey Gall for thinking he can do it, because that's in every single one of us.

01:47:19.000 Not Mickey Gall.

01:47:20.000 I'm sorry, not Mickey Gall.

01:47:21.000 CM Punk.

01:47:21.000 CM Punk, sorry.

01:47:22.000 Yeah.

01:47:23.000 Is it his fault that he believed that he could do it to an extent?

01:47:27.000 Does that make him that delusional that every man on earth thinks that they can go in there and fight and win?

01:47:31.000 Or is it the UFC that says, yeah, we'll give you this much money and...

01:47:36.000 Give you a pay-per-view and put you at the top of it, and let's see how much money you can generate.

01:47:42.000 Well, it's a great move for the UFC. Right.

01:47:43.000 Because the UFC is like, look, hey, we got this huge superstar, and we're going to send him in with this fresh-faced young whippersnapper who's a good fighter, who's got a really good mouth, great at talking, and he's going to fuck him up for sure. 0.98

01:47:56.000 Like, this is great. 0.86

01:47:57.000 And what do they do?

01:47:57.000 They made a hero out of Mickey Gall.

01:48:00.000 Exactly. 0.99

01:48:00.000 And then when this Mickey Gall goes, he goes, stage North guy, I think you're fucking corny. 0.99

01:48:04.000 Takes another one. 0.97

01:48:04.000 And then takes him out, too. 0.97

01:48:06.000 And chokes him out in his next fight.

01:48:07.000 I know, and I love it. 0.99

01:48:08.000 Mickey Gall's a goddamn genius. 0.99

01:48:09.000 What he's done is beautiful. 0.99

01:48:11.000 So, in a way, the UFC's done a beautiful thing.

01:48:13.000 Because they go, oh, you think you can fight in the UFC? Come on in!

01:48:16.000 Have a seat.

01:48:17.000 Can we get you something to drink?

01:48:19.000 Hey, come on! 1.00

01:48:20.000 And that being said, for me, it's not offensive that CM Punk went in there and did it.

01:48:26.000 No.

01:48:26.000 It's offensive, like, I guess, how...

01:48:32.000 Depending on who you are, it's not offensive, but it's crazy how you start to realize in those scenarios that it doesn't matter how much time, skill, or purpose you put into this craft.

01:48:44.000 It matters how famous you are or else you don't get paid.

01:48:46.000 In a way, yeah, you're right.

01:48:48.000 And this is my issue.

01:48:50.000 It's not...

01:48:52.000 Who's wrong?

01:48:53.000 Who's right?

01:48:54.000 You don't need to train and be the best anymore.

01:48:58.000 In fact, that has a tiny, eensy-weensy, tiny little bit of how you make money.

01:49:03.000 See, I don't think that's true. 0.99

01:49:05.000 I think that is a factor, and that factor is compounded if you're a great shit talker. 0.99

01:49:10.000 The point being Conor McGregor. 1.00

01:49:12.000 Conor McGregor is not just a fantastic shit talker. 0.99

01:49:16.000 He's a world-class fighter, a bad motherfucker, and he's capable of knocking people out with one shot. 0.99

01:49:22.000 I mean, that is something people, they're so excited to see him. 0.99

01:49:27.000 They're paying money to see him.

01:49:29.000 He's different.

01:49:30.000 We're talking about somebody on a different level than CM Punk.

01:49:32.000 Well, Ronda, when she was in her prime, Ronda, when she was beating all these women and when she was just flipping people in their head and arm barring them, people were paying to see not just this spectacular figure, but also this person who really knew how to fight. 0.97

01:49:46.000 Right.

01:49:46.000 And it was a mixture of that and decent matchups, too.

01:49:50.000 Oh, 100%.

01:49:51.000 Well, also in the sport being really young, the female MMA being, it's gone through in just a few years, this fantastic metamorphosis where you're seeing women like Valentina Shevchenko, that is just an overall well-rounded, world-class mixed martial artist now.

01:50:08.000 Girls like, you know, Rose Namajunas who are coming up. 0.82

01:50:10.000 These MMA fighters that are coming up that are like super talented now and everyone's getting better.

01:50:16.000 The young people coming into the game that have this really comprehensive MMA game, whereas before she was fighting people, no disrespect to her opponents, but they were limited.

01:50:25.000 They were very limited.

01:50:26.000 Their striking maybe wasn't so good.

01:50:27.000 They were awkward.

01:50:28.000 They weren't that good athletically.

01:50:29.000 They weren't that strong.

01:50:31.000 They couldn't last as long.

01:50:32.000 They couldn't touch her on the ground.

01:50:33.000 And she shined in those matchups.

01:50:36.000 I guess it's just odd how you can look at somebody like Paige Van Zandt and the champ That if you really look at the breakdown of the weight class,

01:50:54.000 Paige Van Zandt and The Champ are almost of equal value if you fight them to an extent because of views and who wants to see who fight.

01:51:03.000 One was on Dancing with the Stars, became a big household name.

01:51:06.000 Before Dancing with the Stars, she got Dancing with the Stars because of Before Dancing with the Stars, she was already on Dancing with the Stars. 0.99

01:51:12.000 She's like a fucking beautiful cheerleader. 1.00

01:51:14.000 That is the appeal that's making money, is my point. 1.00

01:51:18.000 She can fight.

01:51:20.000 Absolutely.

01:51:21.000 She's beaten some great girls in the division. 1.00

01:51:23.000 But if we're talking about Young Jacek, who can fight, fight, fight, put her blood, sweat, tears, like you see it in her and everything about it.

01:51:33.000 And then Paige Van Zandt, who is a good athlete and can fight, It's crazy the money levels that come to the same because one is just that famous and that camera... 0.98

01:51:46.000 Perfect compared to the other one who's just that good at fighting, but she's not as good on the camera as the other one. 0.97

01:51:52.000 So it levels everything out.

01:51:54.000 And that's what's blowing my mind is watching that happen even though the skill set isn't even close to the same, they're gonna make the same money.

01:52:00.000 Well, the really scary thing is when those matchups get made.

01:52:03.000 Or Paige might make more money. 0.96

01:52:04.000 Maybe, yeah.

01:52:05.000 And it's crazy.

01:52:06.000 That's what's trippy.

01:52:07.000 It is kind of trippy, but it kind of makes sense because it's entertainment as well as fighting.

01:52:12.000 It's not just a sport.

01:52:13.000 It's not just who's the best sprinter.

01:52:14.000 And that's where I go to, it doesn't offend me with CM Punk.

01:52:17.000 Well, it doesn't offend me in that sense.

01:52:20.000 What offended me was that he...

01:52:22.000 It didn't offend me that he thought it because I felt like someone should have told him.

01:52:26.000 And it didn't offend me that his coaches prepared him for it because his coach is a good friend of mine, Duke Rufus.

01:52:30.000 Yes.

01:52:31.000 And what do you got to do?

01:52:32.000 The guy comes to you and wants to learn how to fight.

01:52:33.000 Throw him in there.

01:52:34.000 You got to throw him in there.

01:52:35.000 Yeah.

01:52:35.000 It just...

01:52:37.000 It should happen the way it happened because it's good for everybody to see.

01:52:42.000 It shouldn't happen the way it happened because that's all we were going to see.

01:52:45.000 Yeah.

01:52:46.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:52:47.000 Man, there wasn't a chance.

01:52:48.000 It was a mauling. 1.00

01:52:49.000 Like, you remember those Mike Tyson fights where he would fight guys and you would just go, don't blink, because this shit is not going to last. 0.99

01:52:56.000 It's kind of like that. 0.99

01:52:57.000 It's like, yes, it's a competition, but goddammit, it's not really.

01:53:01.000 You know?

01:53:02.000 Like, Paige Van Zandt, let's go back to her again, who's a very talented, tough girl. 0.99

01:53:06.000 I've got nothing but respect for her.

01:53:07.000 I think she's really fun.

01:53:09.000 I'm with you on that.

01:53:09.000 It scared the fuck out of me when she was getting close to Ioana.

01:53:13.000 When she was winning fights and then she fought Rose Namajunas. 1.00

01:53:16.000 And Rose Namajunas is like right there, right?

01:53:18.000 Rose Namajunas lost to Karolina Kivalkovich in a very close fight. 0.99

01:53:23.000 Karolina went on to have a very close fight with Ioana, right? 0.90

01:53:26.000 So Rose beats Paige Van Zandt decidedly, right? 0.88

01:53:30.000 She beat her down. 0.98

01:53:31.000 It was a huge performance for her.

01:53:33.000 But that meant that Paige was literally two steps away from a murderer.

01:53:40.000 I mean, Ioana, look what she did to Jessica Panay. 1.00

01:53:42.000 Look what she did to Carla Esparza. 1.00

01:53:43.000 I was just going to say that.

01:53:43.000 That's my homegirl.

01:53:45.000 She trains with us at Alliance.

01:53:46.000 And Jessica's no slouch. 1.00

01:53:48.000 No slouch.

01:53:48.000 And she's tough.

01:53:49.000 That's the other thing.

01:53:50.000 She's not just like, I mean...

01:53:51.000 She took it.

01:53:53.000 Yeah, she's a tough girl. 0.98

01:53:54.000 And all these girls are tough. 1.00

01:53:57.000 But when you...

01:53:59.000 I don't know.

01:53:59.000 I was a little off when the girls came in the gym, especially at Alliance.

01:54:03.000 We never had women in the gym ever my whole career. 1.00

01:54:05.000 It wasn't like...

01:54:06.000 It was just like...

01:54:07.000 It was just like, no women. 1.00

01:54:09.000 We're fighting.

01:54:10.000 For years?

01:54:11.000 Yeah.

01:54:12.000 When did the women start coming there? 1.00

01:54:14.000 It's been...

01:54:15.000 They've been with us like two, three years now, I want to say.

01:54:18.000 Maybe.

01:54:19.000 If that.

01:54:20.000 With our camp with Eric.

01:54:22.000 But when they first came, I was a little off-put.

01:54:25.000 But the longer they're around, the more they're...

01:54:27.000 Like, they just...

01:54:29.000 They're so in the sport.

01:54:31.000 Their eyes are just like sponges.

01:54:35.000 That's the best way I could put it.

01:54:36.000 And they're just so hungry to hear.

01:54:39.000 And they're not just listening.

01:54:40.000 They're hearing you.

01:54:41.000 That's the biggest difference I notice with the women compared to trying to work with men. 1.00

01:54:46.000 They listen, but they're not hearing you.

01:54:48.000 They already have their own vision of, I'm CM Punk. 0.99

01:54:51.000 I'm going to go out there and hit him with the right hand. 0.88

01:54:53.000 He had that vision.

01:54:55.000 And no matter what you told CM Punk, That it wasn't going to go that way because you were a 50-time world champion and you know what's going to happen.

01:55:03.000 He had that vision and that was it.

01:55:04.000 Women, you can tell them how it's going to happen and they trust and they listen and they are open and they're willing.

01:55:13.000 And when you have that and you're teaching somebody something, that's when you can watch this thing grow.

01:55:20.000 And that's a huge thing with the women that I really have learned being around them They're just so humble in knowing where they're at. 0.99

01:55:30.000 We're in a fight here.

01:55:31.000 I need to listen.

01:55:31.000 Things could go weird.

01:55:33.000 Whereas men, it's like I was built to do this. 0.73

01:55:35.000 This is me.

01:55:37.000 This is how I did.

01:55:38.000 I'm a man.

01:55:38.000 I'm the man.

01:55:39.000 I could kill anybody on earth. 0.99

01:55:41.000 We're all wired that way. 1.00

01:55:42.000 Ego.

01:55:43.000 Is that in some ways connected to your learning to let go?

01:55:47.000 It's 100% my biggest battle.

01:55:50.000 And I didn't mention it.

01:55:51.000 Because I'm still learning so much about it that I don't want to sound too off with my description because I'm not...

01:55:58.000 I haven't...

01:56:00.000 Completely well versed.

01:56:02.000 Yeah, and I haven't...

01:56:03.000 It's such a hard thing to master.

01:56:05.000 But when you can let go of the ego, the ego is just such a horrible thing for us.

01:56:11.000 I mean, it...

01:56:13.000 Right.

01:56:38.000 And the only reason I put myself above things is because of my ego.

01:56:41.000 The only reason I make excuses is because my ego forces me to hide what I am Rather than what happened.

01:56:48.000 Ego just demolishes everything, especially in the sport of fighting.

01:56:51.000 When you can set your ego aside, you hear it all the time, leave your ego at the door and then come.

01:56:55.000 That doesn't happen.

01:56:57.000 Very rare do people leave their ego at the door.

01:56:59.000 They're keeping track of every submission that happens, every takedown, every punch.

01:57:03.000 They're fixing their shin guards in the middle of the practice because they're getting tired and they don't want that one big kick to land or that one big takedown to land when they're tired.

01:57:12.000 And then it hurts their brain because their psychology needs to stop all takedowns In order for their ego not to be hurt, it goes on and on and on and on.

01:57:21.000 And ego is the biggest thing that I notice is the difference with men and women. 0.96

01:57:25.000 Now, women have it too, but it's just a different feel when we got women in the room and men in the room and how they... 1.00

01:57:32.000 The energy is just interesting.

01:57:35.000 Do you think that women are better at taking instruction from men and maybe not as good at taking it from women?

01:57:42.000 Do you think that what's going on is that the women are conceding that these men are bigger and stronger and more experienced and so it's easier for them to do it but maybe they still have that ego against other women?

01:57:54.000 Yes.

01:57:55.000 I mean, you pretty much...

01:57:56.000 I really believe that that is pretty much exactly...

01:57:58.000 I mean, there is a...

01:57:59.000 Now, it doesn't always go this way, but there is a natural flow in the way we were built as human beings, right?

01:58:05.000 To where in the past where, you know, the man is the leader of the household, da-da-da-da-da, like that was the old way of thinking.

01:58:12.000 And now we're getting contemporary and it's like everybody is equal.

01:58:17.000 And as that's come to pass, we've seen women be the biggest hit in the world for fighting right now. 1.00

01:58:22.000 Like, they're main-carding everything.

01:58:24.000 And they're running stuff.

01:58:25.000 And I think that that has become so many years in the past where you're like, alright, men are the household, they run everything.

01:58:32.000 The women had to put their ego aside for so long that they learned how to do it. 1.00

01:58:37.000 We're good to go.

01:58:58.000 And that's not with everybody.

01:58:59.000 I think that if you're dating the fighter or something and you try to help them, it's actually the worst thing that could ever happen.

01:59:05.000 I've seen that.

01:59:06.000 So it goes both ways.

01:59:07.000 Yeah.

01:59:08.000 I've seen it, but rarely do I see two lovers coach together and train together and do fine, right?

01:59:16.000 The only odd one that I've seen work is Smiley.

01:59:20.000 Misha.

01:59:20.000 Misha Tate and Brian Caraway.

01:59:21.000 Misha too, there's another one.

01:59:22.000 What were you going to say?

01:59:23.000 Who were you going to say?

01:59:23.000 Smiley.

01:59:25.000 Who's Smiley?

01:59:25.000 Smiley.

01:59:26.000 He just fought.

01:59:27.000 He's got the smiling on the back of his head.

01:59:31.000 The redhead. 0.99

01:59:32.000 Smiling Sam Alvey?

01:59:33.000 Sam Alvey.

01:59:35.000 His girl's in his corner almost every time he fights.

01:59:37.000 Oh, I didn't know that.

01:59:38.000 Yeah, and his girl, they got, he was walking into the last fight with his kids with him and his girl, and he's kissing her while he's laughing at the, and it just, it blows my mind because everybody has their own systems, you know?

01:59:49.000 No, he's a happy guy.

01:59:50.000 He seems like he's having a grand old time.

01:59:52.000 Duh.

01:59:54.000 Who knows, man?

01:59:56.000 I don't get it, but...

01:59:57.000 Yeah, well, it's him, you know?

01:59:58.000 That's the weird thing about people, right?

02:00:00.000 Everyone's got a whole different formula.

02:00:02.000 Yeah, it's just the whole thing.

02:00:04.000 All these topics are interesting.

02:00:05.000 So we're pretty much running out of time because you've got to head back to San Diego, but I wanted to get back to where you're at now as far as, like, recovery and what your thoughts are about resting and getting back to camp and when do you think your feet are going to be raring to go again and all your injuries.

02:00:22.000 That's pretty much, that year just put a good brunt on my body, so I'm just, right now I'm just healing, and then those two are going to fight, I think, July, I don't know.

02:00:33.000 I think it's the July 4th card, is that what it is?

02:00:35.000 The July weekend, or I think it's the 7th or the 8th?

02:00:37.000 I don't really know, but I don't know the exact date.

02:00:39.000 But that's the big weekend.

02:00:41.000 That July 4th weekend is always a huge weekend for the UFC. And I think...

02:00:46.000 Those two will fight on that card, and then I'd like the winner of that.

02:00:49.000 I'd like to come back and fight for the belt and put on another good show.

02:00:53.000 I mean, regardless, that show was great.

02:00:56.000 And, you know, just to touch on that fight one more time, what was going through my head that changed things.

02:01:02.000 You know, I hear a lot about what people...

02:01:04.000 Oh, he didn't look the same.

02:01:06.000 He this, he that.

02:01:07.000 And it's like, there's some things that I want to clarify that unless you're a professional fighter and you're in that zone, you don't really understand.

02:01:14.000 And that was the...

02:01:17.000 The way that I approached the fight was a little different in this one than you've seen in the past.

02:01:21.000 For the first two rounds, it was pretty good.

02:01:24.000 It was back and forth, me and Cody.

02:01:26.000 It was a competitive matchup.

02:01:28.000 Coming into third, I get cut.

02:01:31.000 Did he hit you with a kick?

02:01:33.000 I think it was a kick or a headbutt.

02:01:35.000 I don't know, but it doesn't matter.

02:01:37.000 We're going to say it was a kick.

02:01:38.000 Who cares?

02:01:39.000 Headbutt kick cut me right here in my eyebrow. 1.00

02:01:42.000 I remember I got cut and I remember it started bleeding.

02:01:46.000 It wasn't the blood that bothered me as much as the doctor.

02:01:51.000 That's when, if you're me and I think about everything that's going on and I'm adjusting, it's like, alright, the doctor's in here, this cut is bad.

02:01:59.000 I mean, the way they were talking to me, are you okay?

02:02:01.000 How's it look? 0.99

02:02:02.000 And I'm like, oh shit, they're gonna stop this fight. 0.99

02:02:05.000 And when I heard the crowd's reaction, ooh, when they saw it, when they showed it, I was like, crap, they might stop this fight. 0.99

02:02:13.000 So, this is the third round.

02:02:16.000 I gotta go after it in the fourth.

02:02:20.000 It's no longer fighting smart.

02:02:22.000 It's no longer fighting smart after I got cut.

02:02:25.000 The third round is lost for me right when you get cut.

02:02:27.000 That's it.

02:02:28.000 Chances of me winning that are I have to drop them or take them down and hold them down.

02:02:31.000 And then maybe I could win.

02:02:34.000 But the cut is a deciding factor as an athlete that you have to make a choice.

02:02:38.000 Am I all in or am I going to play safe?

02:02:41.000 And I was all in once I got cut because I already lost on the scorecards in my mind.

02:02:45.000 Once you get cut, you're down on the bleeding and the damage.

02:02:48.000 They're going to see that and that's it.

02:02:49.000 So now I either cut him or put him out or keep him down on the mat.

02:02:53.000 That was the goal from then on after that cut.

02:02:56.000 It was no longer stick, move, go to the weak side, go to the strong side, time this, time that. 0.98

02:03:02.000 You've got to kill this dude or else you're going to lose the decision. 0.99

02:03:06.000 That's it, Dom. 0.99

02:03:07.000 And that's why you saw a different me in the fourth. 0.88

02:03:12.000 And that's where the big mistake was of me getting put down on my butt a couple times in one round and getting a 10-8 round.

02:03:18.000 But at that point... 0.57

02:03:19.000 With a cut, let's say I take it safe.

02:03:21.000 Let's say I get cut and I play it safe like I've been doing.

02:03:25.000 The chances that the doctor would stop it were high.

02:03:28.000 I'll play it safe so he doesn't cut my eye open worse, right?

02:03:31.000 Stick, move, just stay safe.

02:03:33.000 No.

02:03:34.000 It's like, just go for it.

02:03:36.000 Like, I'm all in.

02:03:37.000 I'm in the fight.

02:03:37.000 That's what I was feeling at that time.

02:03:39.000 And that's what can't be read on the outside of a fight is what a fighter's feeling.

02:03:44.000 What I'm feeling is they might stop this fight because of this cut.

02:03:47.000 So you either got to take him out, take him down, or cut him back.

02:03:50.000 And so that was the focus.

02:03:52.000 And when that happened, I went all in.

02:03:54.000 And then that created the openings that he needed to be successful in his game plan.

02:03:58.000 And that was it.

02:04:00.000 So...

02:04:01.000 Fifth round, I knew I had to take them out.

02:04:03.000 I mean, I won the fifth round. 0.98

02:04:04.000 Who wins the fifth round after losing, after getting put on their butt a couple times? 0.99

02:04:08.000 Not very many people. 0.93

02:04:09.000 So it's a matter of, that fight can go different.

02:04:13.000 I have the tools, the skill set, the cardio, everything it takes.

02:04:18.000 A little bit of health, some adjustments, and everything's fine.

02:04:22.000 It's a game of inches.

02:04:22.000 So that's how I feel about it.

02:04:24.000 I'm not I'm not discouraged by that as much as I feel like I can grow from it.

02:04:29.000 It's also a massive challenge now that you know that you've faced a guy that can beat you like that.

02:04:34.000 And now that massive challenge will certainly burn a fire inside of you.

02:04:38.000 You shouldn't need that to burn a fire inside of you, Joe.

02:04:41.000 You don't think it gives you more?

02:04:42.000 More motivation?

02:04:43.000 If losing makes you...

02:04:45.000 For me, if losing changes how you approach something, then it weighs more than winning.

02:04:51.000 Does that mean that the...

02:04:52.000 Well, okay.

02:04:52.000 I see what you're saying.

02:04:53.000 And I think that they should...

02:04:55.000 I don't...

02:04:56.000 You gotta be who you are, winning and losing.

02:04:59.000 You can't let that decide.

02:05:00.000 Now, if I don't have the drive to go win a world title without winning or losing, then what am I doing?

02:05:05.000 Right.

02:05:05.000 So that's not the right way to think about it, in my opinion.

02:05:07.000 And this is a big part of your new mindset.

02:05:09.000 No, this is life.

02:05:10.000 Right, but this is a part of your new mindset.

02:05:12.000 Not new, though.

02:05:12.000 I've always had this.

02:05:13.000 I mean, I've gotten better at accepting it, yes.

02:05:18.000 With losing control of things that I can control, yes.

02:05:21.000 But I've always thought that way.

02:05:24.000 How do I make it so winning and losing are equal?

02:05:26.000 Because I don't want it to change me even if I lose.

02:05:28.000 I need to still be the person that I tell everybody I am, winning and losing.

02:05:31.000 You have to be what you are.

02:05:32.000 You can't change because it didn't go your way.

02:05:34.000 Right.

02:05:36.000 I don't think I need that loss to be driven.

02:05:39.000 I was driven and thought I was going to win that fight as much as ever before that fight.

02:05:42.000 I'm as driven and as good as I always was now after the loss.

02:05:47.000 It's just a matter of making adjustments, not burning desire.

02:05:51.000 Just another challenge.

02:05:52.000 Not burning desire.

02:05:53.000 Burning desire, if you don't have that in all times, then get out because you're going to get hurt.

02:05:58.000 So how much time, so if we're talking with them fighting in July, we're talking right now, it is now February.

02:06:04.000 So if they fight in July, then you're likely looking at somewhere around December, somewhere like that.

02:06:09.000 Yeah, I mean, if I do one fight this year, okay, and go back and win my title, okay, and then defend it another three times in one year, okay.

02:06:18.000 If I, you know, I mean, these guys are going to fight, there's going to be a winner, people want to see me fight them.

02:06:25.000 I really believe that.

02:06:27.000 One of these guys.

02:06:27.000 So what am I in a rush for other than getting healthy and healing and putting on a good show and fight these guys?

02:06:33.000 They want to fight me, I'll tell you that.

02:06:35.000 Both of them.

02:06:36.000 So what's the rush other than being perfectly healthy so I can put that show on?

02:06:41.000 I fought three times last year.

02:06:43.000 Cody sat on the outside, fought a three-round fight, came in and fought me.

02:06:46.000 I fought three titles.

02:06:48.000 Fought for three titles against the best guys in the world.

02:06:50.000 I would like to see...

02:06:52.000 How he can do.

02:06:53.000 Let's see if he can keep a win streak going.

02:06:56.000 Let's see if he can keep the belt at all against the guy that I already fought.

02:06:59.000 And let's see if TJ, what TJ can do with this opportunity.

02:07:03.000 This is the thing.

02:07:04.000 I don't mind seeing what these gentlemen can do with it because I fought them both.

02:07:08.000 And I know what it takes to be the best for a very long time, not just for one fight.

02:07:13.000 And I'm not sure if they have what it takes yet, but I'm here and I like the challenge to find out and I like to challenge them again to find out.

02:07:21.000 Dominic Cruz, it's been a pleasure, man.

02:07:23.000 I really appreciate you coming down, man.

02:07:24.000 That was awesome.

02:07:25.000 Good times.

02:07:26.000 And I'm really looking forward to seeing you back in there again.

02:07:28.000 I'm really looking forward to you and me doing commentary.

02:07:29.000 I'll see you soon.

02:07:30.000 March 4th.

02:07:31.000 See you soon.

02:07:32.000 Thank you, everybody.

02:07:33.000 We'll be back tomorrow with Philip DeFranco.

02:07:36.000 See you then.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 23, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #921 - Dominick Cruz

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