The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #935 - Robb Wolf

00:00:02.000 Four, three, two.

00:00:05.000 Yes, Rob Wolf!

00:00:07.000 What's up, buddy?

00:00:08.000 You look great, man.

00:00:08.000 You look super healthy.

00:00:10.000 Oh, thanks.

00:00:10.000 What are you doing?

00:00:11.000 I know you're doing a lot of jujitsu, but you look like leaner and hotter.

00:00:14.000 They took the pineal gland out of a small child and then implanted it in me.

00:00:19.000 Is that all you need to do?

00:00:20.000 Pretty much, yeah.

00:00:21.000 Imagine if that was the case, people would run around with like helmets on their kids.

00:00:25.000 It's illegal here, yeah.

00:00:27.000 Where'd you go to get it done?

00:00:29.000 I can't really divulge that.

00:00:31.000 Oh, cool, cool, cool.

00:00:32.000 Wherever it was.

00:00:33.000 As long as it wasn't America. 0.70

00:00:34.000 Right, right.

00:00:36.000 So you're balls deep in jujitsu these days, man.

00:00:40.000 Trying to.

00:00:41.000 Yeah.

00:00:42.000 But you could see that in you.

00:00:43.000 Like, you look different.

00:00:44.000 You really do.

00:00:44.000 You look like...

00:00:45.000 You know, when I was on here last time, I was at the end of a pretty big travel cycle, like doing military gigs and stuff like that, and I was pretty beat down.

00:00:52.000 And we've had...

00:00:54.000 Two kids since I think I was on the podcast.

00:00:56.000 And although that has beat me down, it's beat me down in a different way.

00:00:59.000 So I've just been at home and I can train, don't travel as much.

00:01:03.000 And so yeah, everything's been pretty good.

00:01:04.000 I do this gymnastics bodies programming a couple of days a week, a little bit of squatting, a little bit of deadlifting, pretty on point with the food, and then just getting the dog piss beat out of me at JITS like two to four days a week.

00:01:15.000 So yeah, yeah.

00:01:16.000 What got you into that?

00:01:19.000 Oh, man.

00:01:20.000 I've always been interested in martial arts.

00:01:22.000 Like, as a kid, I had a brown belt in, like, the Ed Parker Kempo system.

00:01:27.000 Ah, old school.

00:01:27.000 Yeah, old, old school.

00:01:28.000 Elvis Presley style.

00:01:30.000 Yes.

00:01:31.000 And, you know, like, I knew that Parker had some connections with, like, Bruce Lee and JKD, and I was always really interested in that.

00:01:38.000 So I went down to Long Beach, California and ended up tracking down some folks at the Inesano Academy and went and sparred with a kid that had been doing Thai boxing for like six months.

00:01:47.000 And he was 60 pounds lighter than I was, not particularly athletic, and he beat the crap out of me.

00:01:54.000 I mean, it was just like a man fighting a boy, only I was bigger and stronger and faster and he just destroyed me.

00:02:01.000 So I went back home, and I burned my brown belt, and I started studying some Thai boxing.

00:02:05.000 And it wasn't long after this that I encountered Brazilian jiu-jitsu for the first time.

00:02:10.000 And I had a little bit of a high school wrestling background, and I was a California state powerlifting champion, so I was a strong, athletic kid.

00:02:18.000 And again, like, this guy, like, submitted me 50 times in, like, two minutes.

00:02:22.000 And I was just kind of blown away.

00:02:25.000 But this was back in, like, 92. And unless you were in a major metropolitan area, you just couldn't find jiu-jitsu.

00:02:31.000 So I did a couple of weeks of it then, you know, around, like, 92, 93. And I didn't have a second jiu-jitsu session until, like, 2003. And again, it was, like, a month or something because...

00:02:42.000 At that point, the folks that were usually running these schools, like, they could barely keep them open.

00:02:47.000 They were at, like, 9 o'clock in the back of a karate school or something.

00:02:50.000 So it's only been the past couple of years that I've been able to be pretty consistent.

00:02:54.000 So you just found a great gym out where you were at?

00:02:57.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:57.000 I've kind of bounced around a little bit.

00:02:59.000 Kelly Farrell at Conviction Martial Arts, and then also the Gorilla Jiu-Jitsu affiliate there in Reno.

00:03:05.000 And then I get out to Elko to the guys at Straight Blast Gym in Elko under Chris Meyer every once in a while.

00:03:12.000 So are you out in the Reno area?

00:03:13.000 Yeah.

00:03:13.000 Dude, I didn't know what Reno was like.

00:03:16.000 I went to Reno this past August and maybe had passed through once when I was younger.

00:03:22.000 Right.

00:03:22.000 But we went through Reno into the mountains in Nevada.

00:03:25.000 It's fucking beautiful. 0.98

00:03:27.000 It is. 0.99

00:03:27.000 Yeah, it's four seasons, like the summer's great, winter was really cool this year, good snowboarding and all that, so it's pretty cool. 0.99

00:03:33.000 And it looks like Colorado up there.

00:03:35.000 Yeah.

00:03:35.000 Like you think Nevada, you think desert, you think barren landscape, not very pretty, or pretty in sort of like a, hey, better bring water sort of a way.

00:03:45.000 It wasn't like that at all.

00:03:46.000 It was gorgeous.

00:03:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:03:49.000 It's kind of funny when people, you know, like if I'm being interviewed or something, they're like, you live in Reno, really?

00:03:54.000 Is that part of a parole violation or something?

00:03:56.000 No, we really like it.

00:03:57.000 Yeah, totally.

00:03:59.000 The thing that is sad, though, is the casinos in Reno.

00:04:01.000 They're weird.

00:04:02.000 It's a really weird mix because you have like Tesla and all these tech companies that have moved into town and it's really got this new vibe going on.

00:04:10.000 Yeah, like the big Tesla mega plant is out there kind of east of town.

00:04:14.000 So you've got this kind of technology scene.

00:04:17.000 There's a whole startup row in downtown Reno.

00:04:19.000 And then you have the casinos and that whole underbelly element to it.

00:04:23.000 And so these two things are like literally, you know, you change corners downtown and you're in either the like...

00:04:30.000 Super depressing, you know, like failed at the casino deal, or you go around the corner and there's a bunch of guys with a technology startup.

00:04:38.000 Do you think the technology startups will overwhelm the shitty casinos?

00:04:43.000 It's still, you know, like tech in general, and this is maybe getting off in the weeds, but there's so much stuff that's just been built on speculation and eyeballs and nothing real that I'm still curious if like tech in general is going to make it.

00:04:56.000 What?

00:04:57.000 Yeah, it's...

00:04:58.000 How so?

00:04:59.000 In what way?

00:05:00.000 You know, there was so much speculative money that went into that scene, and there's only a few entities like Facebook and Google and stuff that have really turned it into a money-making venture.

00:05:10.000 And a lot of these technology startups, there was a lot of money going into them, but it was just kind of predicated on growth or eyeballs, but they never really had a strategy towards profitability.

00:05:20.000 And so I'm just kind of curious how many of these things are really going to Yeah, I've always thought that was weird about Twitter.

00:05:38.000 That Twitter has so many users and there's so much activity.

00:05:44.000 There's something going on there, right?

00:05:46.000 But then they have to figure out how do you generate money from that.

00:05:48.000 Right, right.

00:05:51.000 It's worth a lot of money, but for no reason.

00:05:54.000 It's like, God, everybody's using it.

00:05:55.000 Yeah, but what do you do with it?

00:05:57.000 I don't know.

00:05:58.000 I feel like someone's going to figure it out, but I felt like that two years ago.

00:06:03.000 How do they stay open?

00:06:05.000 I have no idea.

00:06:06.000 I have no idea.

00:06:08.000 I don't know.

00:06:10.000 I don't know.

00:06:10.000 I keep hearing that I'm on a shadow banned list.

00:06:13.000 Have you heard of that?

00:06:13.000 I don't believe it.

00:06:15.000 I think it's horseshit. 0.91

00:06:16.000 You did have Jordan Peterson on, so that probably got you on some sort of a short list really quickly. 0.97

00:06:22.000 I've had a bunch of people on. 0.92

00:06:23.000 Gavin McGinnis is more egregious, probably, and more ridiculous. 0.95

00:06:27.000 And Steven Crowder. 0.98

00:06:29.000 Alex Jones is the biggest one, for sure.

00:06:31.000 Did you see what that list means?

00:06:32.000 What it means to be on that list?

00:06:34.000 No, not exactly.

00:06:34.000 You just get your tweets reviewed by a person before they make it out to your feed or something.

00:06:39.000 Get out of here, really?

00:06:40.000 Yeah.

00:06:40.000 Is that real?

00:06:40.000 That's what it said.

00:06:41.000 I don't know if it's real, but that's what it said.

00:06:44.000 Well, most of my tweets will make it out there.

00:06:46.000 And the ones that don't, thank you.

00:06:48.000 Thank you for cutting those off.

00:06:50.000 Some kind of oversight?

00:06:51.000 Yeah, if I'm hammered at the comedy store at 2 o'clock in the morning and want to rile some people up for no reason, yeah, thank you.

00:06:57.000 Thanks for protecting me from myself.

00:06:59.000 I'm kidding.

00:07:00.000 I'm not in any way advocating censorship.

00:07:02.000 And I'm not necessarily sure I believe it either.

00:07:07.000 Yeah.

00:07:07.000 Sorry about that deviation off the path.

00:07:08.000 Not at all.

00:07:09.000 Not at all.

00:07:10.000 Yeah.

00:07:10.000 So I've been following your Instagram feed, and you and your wife have been doing some crazy blood sugar tests after foods, post-carb meals, like beans and a bunch of other different high-carb foods.

00:07:23.000 Yeah.

00:07:23.000 What are you trying to do there?

00:07:24.000 Are you on a keto diet, or what are you doing?

00:07:27.000 I generally run really well keto or pretty close to it.

00:07:31.000 Fueling jujitsu is a little rough with that, so I maybe do about 75 to 100 grams of carbs on harder training days, and then other days it's pretty low carb.

00:07:39.000 My wife, though, is kind of like Wolverine. 1.00

00:07:41.000 Like, you just can't kill her.

00:07:43.000 And this is some of the stuff that I've learned in the past couple of years, this personalized nutrition, where there's a huge variation from person to person in how they respond to carbohydrates, foods in general, but in particular carbohydrates.

00:07:55.000 There was a study done at the Weizmann Institute in Israel a couple of years ago, and they basically put a continuous glucometer on folks.

00:08:03.000 It's a little disc that you pop on the back of your arm.

00:08:05.000 They did a full genetic screen on them, a gut microbiome test, and then they started feeding these folks different meals. 0.84

00:08:11.000 I think?

00:08:41.000 Huh.

00:08:45.000 So now, is there anything you can do to your gut biome to change the glucose profile?

00:08:54.000 Yes, but exactly what to do is pretty complex.

00:08:57.000 Like, you know, some people can have a condition called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth where the bacteria are basically growing too far north in the gut, essentially.

00:09:07.000 And then whenever you eat something with carbs in it, it makes those bacteria grow in an inappropriate place and inappropriate way.

00:09:14.000 And it's kind of difficult to basically starve the bacteria in the foregut and then feed the bacteria in the hindgut.

00:09:23.000 And there are some...

00:09:24.000 Yeah, Chris Kresseron, he's one of the best people in the world probably in dealing with stuff like that.

00:09:29.000 But it's...

00:09:31.000 I'll put it like this.

00:09:33.000 In the last five years, we've learned more about the gut microbiome than we knew in the previous 50 years.

00:09:38.000 And like literally every month that goes by, we learn more and more and more.

00:09:42.000 But the clinical application of doing something to help somebody that's sick is not easy.

00:09:47.000 It's a pretty complex process.

00:09:49.000 A lot of people...

00:09:50.000 We'll experience a lot of improvement from just kind of a low-carb diet, but it doesn't work for everybody.

00:09:56.000 A lot of people may need some herbal interventions like garlic and different antimicrobial agents that help to knock that bacterial overgrowth back.

00:10:07.000 And it's a pretty challenging process, particularly if the person is really sick.

00:10:11.000 Does fasting have any effect on it?

00:10:13.000 It can.

00:10:14.000 It can.

00:10:14.000 Just like reduced meal frequency seems to improve the gut microbiome and the overall gut health.

00:10:20.000 So this is some of the stuff that I think is going on with intermittent fasting, where instead of eating like six or seven meals a day and just constantly kind of keeping the gut inflamed, instead doing maybe one or two meals a day, pretty broad spacing, seems to have some great benefits for folks.

00:10:36.000 I've been doing that thing where you only eat for 10 hours a day.

00:10:40.000 Yeah.

00:10:40.000 I did a podcast with Dr. Rhonda Patrick, and she was explaining it to me, and I said, let me give it a try.

00:10:45.000 And I've had some really great results.

00:10:47.000 I lost a lot of body fat.

00:10:49.000 Almost immediately, I started losing body fat from it.

00:10:51.000 But I didn't lose any energy, and I feel great.

00:10:55.000 Everything feels really good.

00:10:56.000 But it's challenging, because I would come home from shows late at night, and I'd be hungry.

00:11:02.000 Right.

00:11:02.000 And all I'm supposed to be drinking is water.

00:11:04.000 Like you're not even supposed to have anything that your body has to metabolize.

00:11:07.000 Right.

00:11:07.000 Yeah.

00:11:07.000 Even coffee will kind of cause a little bit of a adrenal response.

00:11:12.000 The liver kicks out some glucose and then it basically presses the reset button.

00:11:15.000 What about herbal tea?

00:11:16.000 I would think that that would probably be okay.

00:11:19.000 But I mean, the folks that really know a lot about it, like Rhonda Patrick, Walter Longo, they're really pretty adamant that in that fasting period, like you're doing nothing but water.

00:11:28.000 Yeah.

00:11:29.000 Yeah.

00:11:29.000 Water is delicious when you're thirsty.

00:11:31.000 And not so good every while. 0.86

00:11:33.000 Every other time, you're like, ah, it's boring-ass water.

00:11:35.000 That's why I grabbed one of these guys when I came here.

00:11:37.000 Those are great.

00:11:38.000 Zevia, for people who don't know, is not a sponsor.

00:11:41.000 It's just we drink it.

00:11:42.000 And it's stevia-flavored soda.

00:11:44.000 So it's really like a guilt-free soda.

00:11:46.000 Right.

00:11:47.000 Which is crazy.

00:11:48.000 Like soda that's sweetened with plants.

00:11:50.000 Right.

00:11:51.000 And not sweetened in a way that affects your blood glucose level at all.

00:11:55.000 Stevia can reduce blood glucose.

00:11:58.000 So in some people, because of the sweet taste, they actually release insulin in response to that.

00:12:04.000 Really?

00:12:04.000 Can you grab a couple of those, James?

00:12:06.000 I'm getting thirsty.

00:12:07.000 But the downside is that if you have somebody that has kind of an insulin roller coaster, it can actually make that problem worse.

00:12:13.000 So the Stevia is super good.

00:12:15.000 I think it's a lot better than most artificial sweeteners, but there are folks that can kind of get themselves into a bad spot with it.

00:12:21.000 That's interesting.

00:12:22.000 I did not know.

00:12:23.000 So is there a recommended daily allowance of Stevia?

00:12:28.000 No.

00:12:29.000 Again, this is just a really individualistic thing.

00:12:33.000 If somebody is a health coach or a doctor or healthcare provider and they see somebody that's struggling with something...

00:12:40.000 And then they're like, okay, so how are you eating?

00:12:41.000 They're like, oh, I'm kind of eating low carb.

00:12:43.000 Okay, so are you doing any artificial sweeteners or, you know, what have you?

00:12:48.000 And if they're doing something like this, then it could be something that is kind of kicking them out of the, you know, the insulin regulation that would work better for them.

00:12:58.000 Now, what do you think about colonics?

00:13:02.000 Is that in any way related?

00:13:04.000 No.

00:13:05.000 No, but I mean, because I feel like it was a thing for a while.

00:13:09.000 Yeah.

00:13:09.000 A lot of people were talking about cleaning out their intestinal tract and, you know, you just got to get water up there, flush everything out, and people would, like, literally watch the tube and go, oh, I know what you're eating, and I'm like, what?

00:13:21.000 It always seemed odd to me.

00:13:23.000 Very.

00:13:24.000 That seems like generally an exit-only kind of process.

00:13:29.000 Unless you're trying to do certain drugs.

00:13:32.000 Right. 1.00

00:13:32.000 Certain drugs apparently are best when you stick them up your butt. 1.00

00:13:36.000 There's a girl named Neuro Soup. 0.98

00:13:38.000 I don't know if she's on YouTube anymore, but she had this whole detailed story about a DMT trip that she did where she took DMT up her butt and Went on like some five-hour journey into the netherworld because it goes directly in your bloodstream from there,

00:13:53.000 right? 0.74

00:13:54.000 Yeah, it's that base and so you've got a non acidic deal like with your hand that base Kind of an asshole were we talking about you're making that hand signal, but I always wondered if it was good for you I'm like I just feel like you should leave that area like flood and water up there. 0.60

00:14:09.000 It just doesn't seem like the smartest move.

00:14:11.000 Yeah, I It seems like just skipping a meal here and there and just kind of letting it do its natural business seems like a pretty good thing.

00:14:18.000 The people that I encountered that did colonics, they seemed to be on kind of a merry-go-round with it, and they also were into some other really squirrely stuff. 0.88

00:14:26.000 Like healing?

00:14:28.000 Yeah.

00:14:28.000 Psychic healers.

00:14:30.000 Psychic healing and chakras.

00:14:32.000 It just seemed like they were always moving towards something and never really getting there.

00:14:38.000 And so it just seemed odd.

00:14:40.000 There was never a resolution to the situation.

00:14:43.000 And I kind of like having some endpoints and then move on and do something else.

00:14:48.000 Well, I always get very curious of something or very...

00:14:52.000 I guess skeptical is the right word, but of something that doesn't have any research behind it.

00:14:57.000 Right.

00:14:57.000 So that's why I wanted to know.

00:14:58.000 How much research is there behind colonics?

00:15:01.000 I never hear about any.

00:15:03.000 I've never dug into it, so I honestly don't know.

00:15:06.000 I do know that there have been some studies looking at the gut microbiome like when they do a colonoscopy.

00:15:13.000 So they'll kind of flush you out and they'll give you some stuff to move everything out.

00:15:17.000 And there is some research that suggests that's not great for the lower gut microbiome.

00:15:24.000 That there's actually some pathological changes from that.

00:15:27.000 So going in and getting a colonoscopy and all of the, like, strafe-bombing that they do to move everything out may not be that great.

00:15:34.000 That's a great way to put it.

00:15:35.000 Strafe-bombing. 1.00

00:15:37.000 I'm thinking about fighter planes.

00:15:38.000 Totally.

00:15:39.000 Agent Orange.

00:15:40.000 Just...

00:15:42.000 Well, I know that people that have antibiotics, like people that are battling staph infection, have a horrendous time sort of reconstructing their gut biome.

00:15:52.000 And Rhonda Patrick detailed that on one of the podcasts that we did.

00:15:55.000 She had a tremendous staph infection, and it wouldn't go away.

00:16:00.000 And she actually wound up, one of the things that really helped it was the topical application of garlic.

00:16:05.000 Yeah.

00:16:06.000 Yeah.

00:16:07.000 Which is really interesting.

00:16:08.000 Yeah.

00:16:09.000 Garlic, oregano.

00:16:12.000 There's a lot of these traditional...

00:16:13.000 Oregano oil, right?

00:16:14.000 Yeah, oregano oil.

00:16:15.000 And like the oregano oil and the garlic are really potent in general.

00:16:19.000 They kind of spare the healthy bacteria or what we would call the more beneficial bacteria.

00:16:22.000 But even that's not a universal story.

00:16:25.000 Like it can suppress some of the more beneficial bacteria in some situations.

00:16:29.000 So again, this is where...

00:16:31.000 If you think you've got something going on, it's probably smart to work with somebody that knows a little bit about what they're doing so that you've got a protocol, you can test it, see what the results are, and then we can make some decisions based off that.

00:16:44.000 If you're already in a compromised state and then you throw something like that in, you can end up worse.

00:16:50.000 Now, for people that are listening, who would someone go to?

00:16:53.000 Like, say, if you really wanted to get your gut biome checked out.

00:16:57.000 I mean, someone like Chris Kresser.

00:16:59.000 There's a gal in Austin, Amy Myers.

00:17:03.000 There's a Dr. Ruscio up in the Bay Area.

00:17:06.000 Chris Kresser also has the Kresser Institute where he's certifying healthcare practitioners.

00:17:11.000 These are the folks that you want to check out.

00:17:13.000 Also, the Institute of Functional Medicine is a really good place.

00:17:16.000 Most of the doctors and healthcare providers that go through that functional medicine training are really well versed in looking at the This whole gut microbiome story.

00:17:25.000 But interestingly, they kind of pull it back and they've got this kind of evolutionary biology picture that they look at.

00:17:30.000 So they're thinking about sleep and your food and stress levels, social connectivity, and they really put all that stuff together in a pretty good way.

00:17:38.000 And they're not chasing symptoms or really trying to figure out root cause and then try to address that root cause and move forward.

00:17:44.000 And they're pretty good at figuring out, like, you've got 18 things going on.

00:17:49.000 Which is the one thing we need to address first?

00:17:52.000 And then we'll knock that out and go to the next one and the next one.

00:17:55.000 And now, when they start applying, say, probiotics, are all probiotics created equal in terms of foods?

00:18:02.000 Not in terms of supplementation, because I know there's some really intense probiotic supplements that you can buy that you have to keep performing.

00:18:11.000 Right.

00:18:12.000 No, I mean, again, there's huge variability in that.

00:18:15.000 You have some people that when they add probiotics, like just like kimchi or sauerkraut, they improve immediately.

00:18:20.000 Like their clinical symptoms improve.

00:18:23.000 They feel better.

00:18:24.000 Maybe depressive symptoms improve.

00:18:26.000 They get leaner.

00:18:26.000 And then you have other people that everything they have going on gets worse.

00:18:30.000 And these are the folks that you start wondering if they have some small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.

00:18:35.000 Do they have some reactivity to these things called FODMAPs, which are fermentable carbohydrates that can, you know, make the gut microbiome kind of freak out.

00:18:43.000 And there's another layer to this, which is called small intestinal fungal overgrowth.

00:18:48.000 So there are people out there that have some sort of a persistent fungal infection, which doesn't get picked up on the general gut microbiome screening because they're looking at bacteria, not fungus.

00:18:58.000 So this is a whole other layer to the story that people may have had a years-long, decades-long fungal infection in the gut that is then disordering everything, causing inflammation.

00:19:10.000 And those are really, really difficult to deal with.

00:19:13.000 What does one do when they have a fungal overgrowth?

00:19:15.000 You can do some of the antifungals like Diflucan and again, some of the herbal preparations.

00:19:21.000 But this is another layer, you know, kind of peeling the onion that there aren't that many practitioners that are even looking for that as an option.

00:19:30.000 And then the treatment protocols are not super well vetted out.

00:19:33.000 So there's a lot of experimentation that happens there.

00:19:36.000 Do they know what is there a dietary cause?

00:19:39.000 I mean, there's always an influence on the diet, but, you know, you could, you know, refined carbohydrates makes all this stuff grow better, and it disrupts the normal gut flora, it causes inflammation, but, you know, oftentimes people will go on a round of antibiotics,

00:19:56.000 the bacterial population gets pushed down, and then the fungal population, which is always there, but usually it's in some sort of a symbiotic balance with the other microbes, then the The fungal infection or fungal population can increase.

00:20:10.000 And this is where some people will go on a round of antibiotics and then they end up with some sort of a legitimate fungal infection, you know, like they can see it on their skin and the doctor will prescribe some antifungals for that.

00:20:22.000 But you can also have this happening kind of a low-grade subacute level where it's not bad enough where they're getting rashes and hives, but it's bad enough that it's making them sick and not kind of optimized.

00:20:35.000 Wow, it's just so hard to figure out what's going on with you.

00:20:38.000 I mean, it seems like for the average person that has a full-time job and family and all that jazz, it's probably incredibly difficult to get to the bottom of what your health issue is.

00:20:49.000 It definitely can be.

00:20:50.000 You know, the average time for diagnosis of an autoimmune condition or something like celiac disease is like 12 to 15 years.

00:20:58.000 So people are suffering.

00:20:59.000 They're suffering for a long time, and it's not the easiest thing in the world to pin down because the symptoms are so variable from person to person.

00:21:07.000 Now, if you go to a good doc, particularly someone, again, kind of functional medicine training, or they've got a little bit of this evolutionary biology perspective, they usually ask a set of questions and more questions so that they can kind of narrow down what's going on.

00:21:21.000 But if you're Kind of doing the Doc in the Box deal and you've got five minutes with this person, like they're just trying to figure out what's the script I'm going to write so I can move this person out and get to the next person.

00:21:31.000 Yeah, that's unfortunate.

00:21:32.000 And you're just not going to, unless you get lucky, you're not going to figure out what the issue is.

00:21:36.000 Yeah, it would seem that the amount of time required to figure out what's wrong with a person would also be very expensive and likely not covered by a whole lot of health care plans.

00:21:46.000 Yeah, I mean, it's interesting.

00:21:48.000 Like, some of these functional medicine docs do a lot with pretty little, you know, but...

00:21:54.000 Some of what they're doing is a time investment.

00:21:56.000 Like, they'll do a two-hour history.

00:21:58.000 And if they can get the information, they'll ask, so, you know, what was your in-utero environment like?

00:22:05.000 Like, did your mom eat well?

00:22:06.000 Did they smoke?

00:22:07.000 When you were born, was it a vaginal birth or C-section?

00:22:10.000 Were you breastfed or not?

00:22:11.000 When was the approximate age of your first round of antibiotics?

00:22:16.000 Did you ever go on tetracycline for an extended period of time for acne?

00:22:24.000 We're good to go.

00:22:41.000 And then that will kind of inform where they go with the testing.

00:22:44.000 And so the testing might be a little bit expensive, but you're not just casting around blindly.

00:22:48.000 Like because of that really thorough intake and kind of understanding the early life history and trying to ferret out if there's ever been like a big event that could be linked back to this health crisis, then they can really dial in the testing.

00:23:03.000 Then depending on what they get from that, they can make a treatment protocol, try the treatment protocol.

00:23:07.000 If we have success, then good to go.

00:23:09.000 If not, then we start modifying from there.

00:23:11.000 When you say eating foods out of the country and catching some sort of a bacterial infection, that is one of the scariest things in the world to me. 0.99

00:23:20.000 Because I've watched that stupid show too many times. 1.00

00:23:22.000 Oh, right. 1.00

00:23:22.000 What is it, The Enemy Within or something like that? 1.00

00:23:25.000 Yeah.

00:23:25.000 It's hard to think of your body as being like not just an organism, but a whole ecosystem.

00:23:32.000 Right.

00:23:33.000 And stuff can come in and take up residence and you didn't really want it.

00:23:38.000 Yeah.

00:23:38.000 I've had Giardia twice.

00:23:40.000 Oh, really?

00:23:41.000 And it's bad.

00:23:42.000 It's bad news.

00:23:43.000 How'd you get that?

00:23:44.000 The first time I was snorkeling in Mexico.

00:23:46.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:23:47.000 And so everybody in the main snorkeling group was kind of out in the salt water.

00:23:51.000 And then there was nobody over in this other area.

00:23:53.000 And so I was like, ah, I'll swim over here.

00:23:55.000 But apparently...

00:23:56.000 And there was a...

00:23:57.000 It was an estuary.

00:23:58.000 Like, there was a saltwater, freshwater interface.

00:24:01.000 And so I started swimming in the freshwater.

00:24:03.000 And then they were like, yeah, you're really not supposed to swim in there because it's water out of a cenote.

00:24:08.000 What's a cenote?

00:24:10.000 The underground kind of freshwater springs that come out of the limestone there in the Yucatan.

00:24:15.000 I interrupted you when you're saying people take a dump in that water.

00:24:19.000 Oh boy.

00:24:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:21.000 I know you get Giardia from beaver poop.

00:24:23.000 That is another place, yeah, and I don't know that there are beaver in the Yucatan, but there are some other carriers.

00:24:29.000 We were in Prince of Wales Island once, about a year and a half ago, two years ago, and it's really high up, and it's above the line where beavers are, and so you could take a water bottle and dip it into a lake.

00:24:41.000 Mm-hmm.

00:24:42.000 And just drink right out of the lake.

00:24:43.000 It's so dangerous feeling.

00:24:46.000 Right.

00:24:46.000 But they assured us.

00:24:47.000 They're like, you could absolutely drink right out of that lake.

00:24:49.000 Oh, man.

00:24:50.000 That just gives me a little gut rumble even thinking about it.

00:24:54.000 We had a float plane land on that very lake.

00:24:56.000 And I'm like, what if that thing's leaking in the lake?

00:24:58.000 I'm drinking diesel water.

00:25:00.000 And they're like, there's millions of gallons of water in this lake.

00:25:02.000 Whatever it is is not going to affect you.

00:25:04.000 I'm like, it says you.

00:25:05.000 What if I scoop it right where the thing dropped off its diesel fuel?

00:25:10.000 I don't know, but it just seems weird that you can do that.

00:25:13.000 And then it seems even weirder when you think about the fact that you can't do that everywhere.

00:25:16.000 Right.

00:25:16.000 Even though a giant percentage of us is water, really you can't drink most water.

00:25:21.000 Right.

00:25:22.000 My professor, Loren Cordain, the guy who kind of founded this paleo diet concept, he used to be a lifeguard at Lake Tahoe, you know, 30 years ago, 35 years ago.

00:25:32.000 And they would jump off the pier, dive down where it was super deep, really cold, open up their water bottle, fill it up, swim back up, drink it.

00:25:40.000 And you can't do it now because the lake has Giardia in it and a bunch of other weird things.

00:25:44.000 What happened?

00:25:44.000 Well, for him, nothing.

00:25:46.000 No, but what happened to the lake?

00:25:48.000 More people moving in and just, you know, it's just kind of a volume of poo input at some point kind of overwhelms the natural system. 0.99

00:25:59.000 We suck. 1.00

00:26:00.000 We fucking ruin everything. 1.00

00:26:01.000 Goddamn people. 1.00

00:26:02.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:26:02.000 I mean, most indigenous cultures were savvy to the idea that you didn't take a dump in your own water system. 1.00

00:26:08.000 So, yeah.

00:26:09.000 Well, they knew about parasites for sure.

00:26:11.000 I mean, that was always the whole idea about not eating pigs. 0.85

00:26:14.000 All the religious... 0.94

00:26:16.000 Excuse me, all the religious rules about not eating pigs was the big part of it was because pigs eat almost everything.

00:26:23.000 They eat everything that's on the ground, and they would eat something that has trichinosis in it.

00:26:27.000 People would get really, really sick from eating pigs, so they sort of determined that pigs were evil.

00:26:32.000 Right, and shellfish, similar.

00:26:34.000 A good friend of mine, John Durant, did a book called The Paleo Manifesto, and he actually...

00:26:39.000 We're good to go.

00:27:07.000 Food prohibitions really add some pretty good wisdom to them in general.

00:27:11.000 But then there's also some super goofy things.

00:27:14.000 But it's pretty common across all cultures.

00:27:16.000 Like people would, you know, kind of build into their systems these prohibitions against different foods.

00:27:22.000 And oftentimes because of this kind of bacterial or parasitic deal.

00:27:27.000 I wonder what like the kosher ones for like milk and meat together.

00:27:31.000 Like you can't have milk and meat together.

00:27:33.000 I wonder what that's about.

00:27:34.000 I would have to ask him about that.

00:27:36.000 I've never heard anything about that.

00:27:37.000 And then it's interesting in Islam, then there's not that prohibition. 0.98

00:27:41.000 And I don't know if that was just kind of like a fuck you to the Judeo-Christian deal or what, but yeah. 0.94

00:27:47.000 Now, what about eating fats with complex carbohydrates or fats with sugars? 0.96

00:27:55.000 Does that affect your glucose levels and how it's absorbed by the body?

00:28:00.000 Yes, but again, like from person to person, it really varies a lot.

00:28:04.000 So for some people...

00:28:06.000 You know, if you did something like a white potato and you're going to have a certain blood glucose response from it and you put a good whack of butter or olive oil or something in it, for one group of people, it would actually reduce and spread out the total glucose load.

00:28:20.000 So your blood sugar wouldn't go as high.

00:28:22.000 Your total insulin load would be lesser as a consequence.

00:28:26.000 And then there are other groups of folks that they will see an increase in blood glucose response and a really pronounced increase in insulin response.

00:28:35.000 Yeah.

00:28:35.000 And is the amount of fats that are in, like the olive oil and the butter that's in the potato, is it uniform?

00:28:42.000 Are they measuring it very carefully?

00:28:44.000 The studies that have been done, they're quite uniform.

00:28:46.000 Yeah, like they get in and do a pretty good job.

00:28:48.000 So they're, you know, person eats X amount of carbohydrate, they add X amount of fat, they're kind of standardized for body weight so that you're diluting the glucose about the same amount from person to person.

00:28:59.000 And so the The best understanding that I've seen out of this is just that there's a pretty good variability from person to person as to how they're going to respond to that.

00:29:08.000 So it's not always a case where adding fat to a decently dense carbohydrate source is going to buy you anything.

00:29:16.000 For some people it is an improvement and for other people it's actually more of a problem.

00:29:20.000 So you'd almost have to do the kind of experiments that you're doing with your wife, where you take the blood levels.

00:29:27.000 What are you doing?

00:29:27.000 What time periods are you doing?

00:29:29.000 For the recommendation, it's called the 7-Day Carb Test.

00:29:32.000 You do 50 grams of carbs, and that's the net carbs.

00:29:35.000 So all the fiber is subtracted out.

00:29:37.000 And so if you're doing something like black beans, it's a huge pile of beans because they have a lot of protein and fiber.

00:29:42.000 So those things are hard to do.

00:29:44.000 Something like white rice or gluten-free bread or something would be a lot easier to do.

00:29:49.000 I think?

00:30:05.000 When we look at, again, some pre-agricultural people, they tend to have some really, really nice blood glucose responses.

00:30:12.000 And again, from this Weitzman paper, what we saw from that is if people control their blood glucose effectively over time, their inflammation drops, their gut microbiome improves.

00:30:22.000 And so you could have two people that have a very different response to, say, like rice or potatoes or something.

00:30:29.000 And one person, like my wife, it's kind of crazy.

00:30:31.000 She can just crush this stuff, and she does great. 0.98

00:30:34.000 And interestingly, she can eat a ketogenic diet and do great. 0.99

00:30:37.000 She can switch whatever fuel she wants to eat, and she does fine with that. 0.64

00:30:41.000 But if we keep that gut microbiome or the blood glucose response I don't know exactly what is wrong with me, but I don't handle carbs that well.

00:30:58.000 If I eat in a way that my blood glucose response looks like my wife, then my blood lipids look good.

00:31:05.000 My gut is healthier.

00:31:06.000 Everything else pulls into a good spot.

00:31:09.000 So even if you're not You know, from that genetically talented side of things, if you can make your blood glucose response look like that genetically talented person, then you should get most of the metabolic benefits.

00:31:21.000 You don't have as much latitude in your day-to-day eating, but I mean, you know, not everybody can flat-foot dunk a basketball or something, so you just have to take what you get, yeah.

00:31:30.000 That's interesting.

00:31:31.000 So you just have to kind of figure out what it is that your body requires, and the main goal is staying inside these parameters.

00:31:38.000 Right, right.

00:31:39.000 And, you know, it's a tough thing for someone like me who, you know, like, I love the paleo diet.

00:31:43.000 I love that basic concept.

00:31:45.000 And I don't, in general, if you throw out the following, you say, most people should eat whole, unprocessed foods.

00:31:52.000 Not a lot of contention there.

00:31:54.000 But when you get a little bit granular with that, whole unprocessed foods could be beans, it could be potatoes, it could be sweet potatoes.

00:32:01.000 And for me, it's interesting.

00:32:03.000 Lentils, I do great with.

00:32:05.000 I can do a lot of lentils, do a decent amount of carbohydrate from lentils.

00:32:09.000 My blood glucose response is great.

00:32:11.000 If I do rice, white potatoes, sweet potatoes are better, but the rice and white potatoes, I look like a diabetic after eating that stuff.

00:32:20.000 So...

00:32:21.000 Even though that general recommendation of eat whole, unprocessed foods is generally spot on, there's still a lot of details and granularity in that.

00:32:30.000 You could be following a whole food diet, and for you, because of your genetics or the epigenetics, like your gut or maybe taking antibiotics in the past, you still may need to be really careful about the amounts and types of carbohydrates that you eat.

00:32:45.000 That's crazy, taking antibiotics in the past can affect you that far in the future.

00:32:50.000 How much of an effect, like time-wise?

00:32:52.000 Well, so there's two levels to this, in my opinion.

00:32:56.000 The one level is the gut microbiome.

00:32:58.000 There's another level to it.

00:32:59.000 Certain antibiotics, the way that they work, they interrupt the transcription and activity of the ribosomes in Bacteria.

00:33:07.000 But our mitochondria are effectively a bacteria, like they have bacterial DNA and ribosomes.

00:33:15.000 And even though in general, like mainstream medicine says that antibiotics don't affect mitochondrial function, there's some pretty good papers that suggest that antibiotics can disrupt and damage mitochondrial function.

00:33:29.000 And when your mitochondria get sick, you die.

00:33:31.000 Like this is so much of what Rhonda Patrick Talks about with, you know, the benefits of fasting and having really good micronutrient density and whatnot.

00:33:39.000 And, you know, Tim Ferriss pinged me a question about why has Lyme disease gotten so much worse for people?

00:33:46.000 You know, used to it was kind of like catching a cold.

00:33:49.000 You know, he lived in upstate New York.

00:33:51.000 Everybody seemed to get it.

00:33:52.000 It wasn't something that would cripple people over the long haul.

00:33:55.000 And now you're seeing a lot of long-term problems, but my question was, is it really the Lyme disease or is it the damage to the mitochondria from being on antibiotics long-term?

00:34:05.000 Because the Lyme disease requires a really long treatment protocol with antibiotics.

00:34:10.000 That's fascinating, but isn't it even worse for people that go misdiagnosed?

00:34:14.000 And so they don't get on the antibiotics for a long time and the Lyme disease gets deep, deep, deep into their system.

00:34:20.000 Yeah, honestly, I don't know much on that side.

00:34:23.000 I've been looking so much at this kind of mitochondrial dysfunction side, I can't really comment much on the long-term untreated Lyme disease.

00:34:31.000 Lyme disease is a scary thing because there's so many ticks that have it now.

00:34:35.000 I mean, I was talking to some people this weekend and they were like, yeah, my mom's got it, my dad's got it, I got it. 0.96

00:34:41.000 How many goddamn people are getting lit up by these ticks? 0.98

00:34:45.000 And catching this little freaky disease. 0.99

00:34:47.000 And where was it 20, 30 years ago?

00:34:49.000 You know, it's funny.

00:34:50.000 NPR just had a piece on this, and it was some of the modern farming practices has killed off the predators that would normally knock the tick population down.

00:35:00.000 Like what?

00:35:01.000 I forget, you know, I literally just kind of scanned it, but somebody that commented on there like, oh yeah, this is why we have free-range chickens on our property to basically keep the tick population down.

00:35:10.000 But part of what is suppressing that is that the free-range chickens are eating mice and stuff.

00:35:16.000 So the mice are a vector that allows the ticks to grow and populate.

00:35:21.000 Right.

00:35:22.000 You know, I just scanned this thing, but it was interesting, but it was suggesting that the kind of monocropping process of what we've done with modern agriculture has created this gap where we now have pests, like mammalian pests, like mice and moles,

00:35:37.000 that are a vector for the ticks, and so they've just got more surface area, more real estate that they can live on, and so their population has grown.

00:35:46.000 That's a really important factor for people that don't like coyotes.

00:35:50.000 Like, there's a lot of people that are very angry that coyotes say, the coyote ate my dog.

00:35:54.000 Like, I understand, and it is terrible.

00:35:56.000 However, the coyote also eats every rat that you can find, and that's one of the reasons why rats aren't everywhere.

00:36:02.000 Right.

00:36:02.000 And if you go to New York City, you see very few coyotes and a fuckload of rats.

00:36:06.000 Right.

00:36:07.000 And what would you rather have? 0.99

00:36:08.000 I think I'd rather have a few coyotes every now and then, an occasional lost cat than fucking Black Plague running through your neighborhood in the suburbs. 0.99

00:36:14.000 It's true, but they have eaten three of my cats in Reno, so I do smoke a coyote every once in a while. 0.96

00:36:20.000 Do you?

00:36:20.000 How do you get them?

00:36:22.000 Archery or with a suppressed rifle out of my back door.

00:36:25.000 Do you know that when you kill coyotes, you actually increase the population?

00:36:29.000 I know.

00:36:29.000 Yeah.

00:36:30.000 It's really counterintuitive.

00:36:32.000 You cut its head off, and yeah, I know, but...

00:36:34.000 It's the reason why there's coyotes in every single state.

00:36:38.000 And we have a podcast coming up with a guy named Dan Flores, who wrote a book called Coyote America that I read. 0.97

00:36:44.000 It's fucking amazing. 0.78

00:36:46.000 But coyotes, when they yell out what they're doing, like... 0.99

00:36:50.000 All that stuff is they're doing roll call.

00:36:52.000 And they all chime in and when one is missing, it triggers a response in the female to produce more cubs.

00:37:00.000 Interesting.

00:37:01.000 So in healthy conditions, when they're not being pressured, the female will produce like three or four cubs. 0.64

00:37:05.000 But when they're being pressured, they'll produce like a dozen or more.

00:37:11.000 It's crazy.

00:37:11.000 And they spread out, too.

00:37:13.000 They'll change their area.

00:37:14.000 Humans will be long gone, and coyotes and cockroaches will still be here.

00:37:18.000 They will inherit the earth.

00:37:19.000 Well, it's also amazing how many Native American myths and stories evolved about the coyote.

00:37:27.000 And about how the coyote was this sort of god that was kind of watching over everything and was responsible for creation and a lot of other things.

00:37:33.000 It's really weird.

00:37:35.000 It's a freaky, smart little animal.

00:37:36.000 And it is a wolf, too, by the way.

00:37:38.000 Yeah.

00:37:38.000 So I had read some stuff about the coy wolf where the wolf populations have been really pushed back.

00:37:45.000 And so they started crossbreeding with coyotes.

00:37:47.000 And so now where coyotes were maybe about like 25, 30 pounds, now they'll be 70 or 80 pounds and they hunt in packs.

00:37:54.000 And so they've got these characteristics of wolves and coyotes.

00:37:57.000 Yeah.

00:37:57.000 There's quite a few of them, but one of the things that's important is that coyotes, when a coyote and a wolf breed, they're basically the same animal.

00:38:04.000 So even though there's variations in the way they behave, particularly in that coyotes can hunt alone and they can hunt in packs, whereas wolves almost exclusively hunt in packs.

00:38:13.000 Right.

00:38:14.000 They share DNA, so when they have babies, they're viable.

00:38:18.000 Right.

00:38:18.000 So it's not like a hybrid.

00:38:20.000 Right.

00:38:20.000 They're basically the same animal.

00:38:21.000 Yeah.

00:38:22.000 It's really weird.

00:38:23.000 They're everywhere.

00:38:24.000 Apparently they're having a real issue with them in New York City.

00:38:27.000 They have them in Central Park, they have them in Queens.

00:38:30.000 Yeah, the urban areas are some of the most vibrant locations for these coyotes.

00:38:35.000 Yeah, I mean, they just crush like...

00:38:39.000 The pet population.

00:38:40.000 If you let your pets out at night, it's Russian roulette with that.

00:38:45.000 It's even in the day, man.

00:38:46.000 I have chickens, and one of my chickens got stolen by a coyote, and I watched him hop the fence within his mouth, and I was like, wow.

00:38:54.000 It turned out her mouth.

00:38:55.000 It turned out she was a female, and she had cubs.

00:38:57.000 Oh, wow.

00:38:58.000 Yeah, and I was trying to figure out what to do.

00:39:00.000 I just kind of let it alone. 1.00

00:39:01.000 I was going to kill her. 0.99

00:39:02.000 I was going to figure out a way to kill her, but then I thought, well, if I kill her, Part of it, I don't want the babies to grow up and kill my chickens more, but then the other thing is I don't want to stop a mother from feeding their babies. 1.00

00:39:15.000 I felt like I fucked up. 0.99

00:39:17.000 I didn't secure the yard enough. 0.99

00:39:19.000 It was my fault.

00:39:20.000 There's a game being played, and the game is stay alive, and the chickens are playing a way easier version of stay alive than the coyote is.

00:39:28.000 So I felt like I had to give her that point.

00:39:30.000 Like, alright, you got that one.

00:39:31.000 It's on the board. 1.00

00:39:32.000 Don't eat my fucking dog. 1.00

00:39:34.000 I'll kill you all. 1.00

00:39:36.000 That's where it crosses the line. 1.00

00:39:38.000 My appreciation and love for my chickens is a one-thousandth of my cat.

00:39:44.000 You know what I mean?

00:39:44.000 It's just different.

00:39:46.000 Well, my wife convinced me to get a Rhodesian Ridgeback for a dog.

00:39:51.000 And he's a great dog.

00:39:52.000 He's about 105 pounds and like 2% body fat and I wouldn't want him getting mixed up in a pack of coyotes, but I think he could probably hold his own for a good bit if something went down.

00:40:03.000 Coyotes are sneaky, though. 0.99

00:40:04.000 One of them will come out and they'll taunt him, and then they'll chase him, and then the other ones will ambush him.

00:40:10.000 Or if the female coyote is fertile at that point, and they're pumping out the pheromones, it'll lure the dog away, and they're like, yeah, you didn't get any action, and we're going to eat you. 0.99

00:40:21.000 There's a great story that this guy told me who worked at my pet food store.

00:40:25.000 And he also works as a nurse in a veterinary office.

00:40:28.000 And they brought this pit bull.

00:40:30.000 And it was one of those freak pit bulls that people breed and get it to like 120 pounds.

00:40:34.000 Have you ever seen those?

00:40:35.000 There's a company called Land of the Giants.

00:40:37.000 I think they're in Massachusetts.

00:40:39.000 And they make these pit bulls that look like bodybuilders.

00:40:42.000 They don't even look real.

00:40:43.000 Anyway, this guy had a pit bull like that, and they brought it into the vet's office, and it was just covered in massive cuts.

00:40:50.000 It required something in the range of a thousand-plus stitches all over its body.

00:40:55.000 And they're like, what happened?

00:40:57.000 He goes, I don't know.

00:40:58.000 The dog got out of the yard, and he's just covered in cuts.

00:41:02.000 They figured maybe it was a dogfight or something.

00:41:04.000 They didn't know.

00:41:05.000 But there was just a trail of blood that led from his house up into the hills.

00:41:11.000 Where he found nine dead coyotes.

00:41:13.000 Holy smokes.

00:41:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:41:15.000 So they just laid a trap for him, and he just fucked them all up. 1.00

00:41:19.000 Like, what a huge mistake! 0.99

00:41:22.000 He brought this freak, this Brock Lesnar pitbull into our midst, and he just mauled them all.

00:41:27.000 And the whole family is gone now, yeah. 0.53

00:41:29.000 Everyone's dead. 0.97

00:41:30.000 He killed them all. 1.00

00:41:31.000 He tore them apart. 0.99

00:41:32.000 Like, and they, apparently, they just kept fighting.

00:41:34.000 I don't know what happened, but he said it was spread out.

00:41:38.000 You know, the carnage was spread out over several yards.

00:41:41.000 But this pit bull just went to town.

00:41:43.000 Pit bulls are, I mean, they're just amazing animals.

00:41:47.000 I mean, they are incredibly strong.

00:41:50.000 That jaw power is just off the hook.

00:41:52.000 They're really smart.

00:41:54.000 So yeah, that would be a handful, especially if it's like 130 pounds and jacked.

00:41:58.000 They say that the thing about the pit bull is that it's not worried about dying the way a coyote is.

00:42:04.000 Like coyotes, because no one's feeding them, their whole thing is like stay alive, survive, you know, attack and kill something, but don't fight to the death.

00:42:12.000 Right.

00:42:13.000 Whereas a pit bull is essentially bred to fight to the death.

00:42:16.000 Right.

00:42:16.000 And the ones that didn't, they were removed from the breeding population.

00:42:20.000 Right. 0.96

00:42:23.000 Is like that Michael Vick story where the ones that would quit or the ones that would turn, that wouldn't engage in the fight, they would kill them and torture them. 0.91

00:42:32.000 It was horrible, horrible, horrible stuff.

00:42:33.000 But because of that really nasty, cruel, vicious way of approaching the dog breeding, what they get is this bloodline of ferocious warriors that just have no fear of death. 1.00

00:42:45.000 And when you get one that's 120 pounds like that, like, fuck, man. 1.00

00:42:49.000 What a giant mistake. 0.99

00:42:52.000 I don't know if it was 120 pounds.

00:42:53.000 I might be making that number up.

00:42:54.000 It's huge.

00:42:55.000 Huge pit bull.

00:42:55.000 I mean, pit bulls are supposed to run like 60 pounds, I think, at the upper end.

00:42:59.000 So when you start doubling that, that's a lot of dog.

00:43:02.000 Well, the real fighter ones are 35 pounds.

00:43:04.000 Okay.

00:43:04.000 And when they fight them, they're small.

00:43:06.000 Right.

00:43:06.000 Like when people have this idea of a pit bull in their eyes, they have this idea of a guard dog.

00:43:10.000 But it's not really...

00:43:11.000 The ones that they fight, they're really not that big.

00:43:15.000 Right.

00:43:15.000 Their physical muscles aren't that big.

00:43:18.000 Because really, it's all about...

00:43:19.000 Having the endurance and having the gameness to attack and kill.

00:43:24.000 Pull up this website, Land of the Giants.

00:43:26.000 Land of the Giants Pit Bulls.

00:43:28.000 Because, like, a friend of mine sent it to me. 0.99

00:43:30.000 I was like, what in the fuck is this? 0.98

00:43:32.000 Like, they've just figured out a way to do the same thing that the poultry industry has done. 0.99

00:43:35.000 Just breed bigger and bigger chickens until you have this freak chicken that can barely walk.

00:43:40.000 Right.

00:43:40.000 These guys have done that with pit bulls, where it's just like, it looks like they're breeding it with, like, something else, but it's really just taking the biggest one.

00:43:47.000 Or maybe some anivar in the puppy chow or something like that.

00:43:49.000 Can you do that?

00:43:50.000 Would that work?

00:43:52.000 I wonder if people have done that, like inject steroids in your dog.

00:43:55.000 I guarantee you somebody's done that.

00:43:57.000 Oh, yeah.

00:43:58.000 I'm sure, right?

00:43:58.000 Yeah.

00:44:01.000 Pit bulls have an incredible bite, but what's really crazy is that a wolf has a bite that's five times stronger than a pit bull.

00:44:07.000 Really?

00:44:08.000 Yeah.

00:44:08.000 A wolf has a bite that's, I think it's 2,500 pounds per square inch versus 500 for the pit bull.

00:44:16.000 Look at that thing. 0.92

00:44:17.000 This isn't quite the same one, but these are big blue giants. 0.99

00:44:20.000 What the fuck is that? 0.99

00:44:22.000 Look at the size of these things. 1.00

00:44:24.000 That is so ridiculous. 0.99

00:44:26.000 That's a lot of dog. 1.00

00:44:27.000 It's such a ridiculous dog. 1.00

00:44:30.000 Did you see that Land of the Giants website? 1.00

00:44:31.000 Did you find it?

00:44:32.000 I typed it in and just like a Facebook page popped up.

00:44:34.000 Oh, really?

00:44:35.000 Maybe they went under.

00:44:36.000 There's a bunch of forums asking about them.

00:44:37.000 They might have went under.

00:44:39.000 Who knows what they did.

00:44:40.000 The DEA raided them.

00:44:41.000 Yeah, who knows?

00:44:42.000 Yeah.

00:44:43.000 It's really crazy that all these dogs, whether it's a Chihuahua or an English Bulldog, all of them came from wolves.

00:44:50.000 Came from wolves.

00:44:50.000 Yeah.

00:44:50.000 I'm like, what?

00:44:51.000 My four-year-old daughter asked me about that.

00:44:53.000 She's like, Dad, weren't all dogs from wolves?

00:44:56.000 And I'm like, yeah.

00:44:57.000 And she's like, how?

00:44:57.000 How does that work?

00:44:58.000 And I'm trying to explain genetics and genetic variability and everything.

00:45:03.000 If you can explain something to a kid, then you've got a pretty good grasp on it.

00:45:07.000 I think that she kind of got the gist of it.

00:45:10.000 The way I tried to explain it to someone was that it's kind of like people.

00:45:20.000 Right.

00:45:22.000 Right.

00:45:27.000 Right.

00:45:33.000 You know, like, they look so different.

00:45:36.000 Right.

00:45:36.000 And that's sort of like dogs, that we, by preference and breeding and, you know, and I guess geography as well, that's a huge factor as well.

00:45:45.000 Right.

00:45:46.000 But it is interesting, like, the wolf, coyotes, I guess, like, dingoes, like, there's a real uniformity there.

00:45:52.000 Like, nature ended up pushing some things where they've got this kind of snoutiness and they've got good hearing and good smell, but not like a hound dog, which has better smell, you know, it's interesting.

00:46:03.000 Yeah.

00:46:03.000 There's also interesting genetic variabilities in terms of what kind of temperature their body has to be involved.

00:46:09.000 Like, for certain mammals, when they grow farther north, they become much, much larger.

00:46:15.000 Right.

00:46:15.000 Like, white-tailed deer in, like, Alberta can get to around 300 pounds, whereas in Texas, they're only, like, 100 pounds.

00:46:25.000 Right.

00:46:25.000 Like, maybe 150 is, like, a big deer, you know?

00:46:27.000 Right.

00:46:28.000 It's fascinating that their body just decides that, look, the best way to stay warm is to be enormous.

00:46:34.000 Right.

00:46:35.000 And they get more round and shorter limbs and all that stuff.

00:46:39.000 Sure.

00:46:39.000 Whereas polar bears are some of the largest bears.

00:46:42.000 Or Kodiak, Alaska bears, which is sort of a perfect example.

00:46:45.000 Because in Kodiak Island, those brown bears have access to massive amounts of protein in salmon and beached whales and deer and fawns and things like that.

00:46:55.000 Because they're just such a genetic... 0.89

00:46:58.000 They're such a genetically powerful creature as is, a brown bear, but then you give them all this massive amounts of protein and incredible food, and then on top of that, it's freezing fucking cold.

00:47:08.000 So they just become these enormous behemoths.

00:47:11.000 Right, right.

00:47:12.000 Yeah.

00:47:14.000 Did you see what came out about dinosaurs today?

00:47:17.000 You were just talking about the wolves.

00:47:18.000 Dinosaurs aren't real, bro.

00:47:19.000 Didn't you watch that podcast?

00:47:20.000 It's not about that.

00:47:22.000 Some scientist did a bunch of research.

00:47:24.000 He did like three years of research on himself or on his own.

00:47:26.000 He said he went into museums and was studying the bone fragments and he put all of his information into a computer program and after five minutes it spit out something that said that like All of the two major dinosaur family trees are different.

00:47:42.000 This little sum is up here.

00:47:45.000 This is something like telling you that neither cats nor dogs are what you thought they were, and some of the animals you call cats are actually dogs.

00:47:53.000 This is what Discovery is sort of like.

00:47:55.000 Oh, that it's like that.

00:47:55.000 It's like that, yeah.

00:47:57.000 Oh, okay.

00:47:57.000 So for a dummy like me that doesn't know much about dinosaurs, theropods, all of them, the classic tree, interesting.

00:48:04.000 So what are they saying, though?

00:48:06.000 Where they're from might be different.

00:48:08.000 They thought this particular kind came from South America before, and now it might have come from Norway.

00:48:14.000 Dinosaurs came from Norway?

00:48:15.000 Yeah, that's one of the things it's saying.

00:48:17.000 This is one guy, and this news hit the waves today.

00:48:20.000 It's making big headlines all over about what does this information mean.

00:48:24.000 I was just thinking, as you guys were saying that about wolves, what if they find out next week that all dogs didn't come from wolves and they came from cats or something?

00:48:33.000 Wow.

00:48:36.000 How strange.

00:48:37.000 Yeah, super strange.

00:48:37.000 Their diets are a little different.

00:48:39.000 They had some real small ones that had different kinds of teeth that proved that they were omnivores and not necessarily like carnivores or herbivores or whatever.

00:48:47.000 And that's a good...

00:48:49.000 Lesson in like all science should have a sign hung on it that says good until further notice.

00:48:54.000 And you don't like turn it into religious doctrine and assume that it's 100% factual.

00:48:59.000 You know, we create models and hopefully those models help us kind of predict and model the world.

00:49:05.000 But, you know, when you get better, newer information, you may have to scuttle that whole thing.

00:49:10.000 Yeah, there was an article that I tweeted, and then a follow-up article earlier today, or last night rather, about scientific journals, about some scandals that are emerging from scientific journals, where scientific journals are essentially operating on a pay-to-play basis, and some of them,

00:49:25.000 they're publishing these things without really vetting the information that's inside the papers. 0.92

00:49:30.000 And it just seems like any time money gets involved in stuff, people become assholes. 0.96

00:49:36.000 Sting Operation Reveals Science's Insane Fake News Problem. 0.99

00:49:39.000 I love the term fake news.

00:49:41.000 Right.

00:49:41.000 It's just such an anti-intellectual.

00:49:43.000 It's so anti-intellectual, you know, like fake news.

00:49:46.000 It's fake.

00:49:46.000 Like when Donald Trump says that you are fake news, like how are you allowed, like there should be like a list of things that would disqualify you from being the president.

00:49:54.000 Like as soon as you say that, you're like, okay, did you say that?

00:49:57.000 Yeah?

00:49:57.000 Okay, you got it.

00:49:58.000 You got to step down.

00:49:58.000 Right.

00:49:59.000 You can't call CNN fake news.

00:50:01.000 Yeah.

00:50:01.000 You are fake news.

00:50:02.000 No, they are the news.

00:50:04.000 You might think they're biased.

00:50:05.000 You might think that you might be able to point out some inaccuracies and make them, you know, make printer retraction.

00:50:12.000 But yet calling them fake news, like that just that term that anyone can use and it's such a small mouth noise to make.

00:50:19.000 Right.

00:50:19.000 Fake news.

00:50:20.000 Fake news!

00:50:21.000 And you say it.

00:50:21.000 Yeah, next.

00:50:23.000 Like, whoa, buddy. 0.99

00:50:25.000 You're fucking with the entire information process. 0.99

00:50:29.000 Because of your own power and the inconvenience of someone telling you challenging things, you're fucking with the entire process of getting information to people. 0.99

00:50:40.000 Right.

00:50:41.000 This last election cycle was really interesting.

00:50:45.000 That's a good way of putting it.

00:50:48.000 Man, I don't know.

00:50:49.000 It would be, I think, kind of cool to be 50 years down the road and look back at how all this plays out.

00:50:54.000 I don't know that it's going to be great living through it.

00:50:56.000 I have these thoughts that there's going to be the great North American states at some point.

00:51:02.000 The U.S. is like five different sub-countries after some horrific thing goes down.

00:51:08.000 But people are so...

00:51:11.000 Entrenched in their ideology and it's just it's virtually impossible to get somebody on the opposite side of a fence to have a discussion about anything in any meeting of the minds and it's interesting to me I really think social media is kind of facilitated this historically you had like print paper for you know maybe a couple of hundred years and people would have you know community gatherings they would talk about different topics Right.

00:51:58.000 And so, like, the discourse is just crazy.

00:52:01.000 Like, there's just no discussion.

00:52:02.000 There's no middle ground.

00:52:04.000 There's no understanding.

00:52:05.000 And this last election cycle was really crazy.

00:52:09.000 And, like, it kind of broke me in some ways.

00:52:11.000 Like, I am way less inclined to invest in much of anything now.

00:52:16.000 Whereas before, I would kind of bleed a little bit for some social causes and trying to put some thoughts out about something. 0.99

00:52:23.000 It was just kind of like, fuck it. 0.99

00:52:25.000 I just don't care anymore. 0.99

00:52:27.000 Well, there are a lot of people that invest tremendous amount of time, a tremendous amount of time just engaging with people and fighting and arguing and insulting and attacking people online.

00:52:37.000 And I have gone to a bunch of different Twitter pages where I go, how many hours is this guy on?

00:52:43.000 And then I like check to see like, when does he start his tweets?

00:52:46.000 Right.

00:52:46.000 And there's people that are tweeting 12 hours a day.

00:52:49.000 Right. 1.00

00:52:49.000 And it's all mean, nasty, attack shit. 1.00

00:52:52.000 Like some mentally ill person has a computer and nothing's preventing them from just going after people and trolling people and attacking people. 1.00

00:52:59.000 What disturbs me is not just that, but also this natural human tendency that we seem to have where you have an idea in your head and then that idea is not just an idea, but it's your idea.

00:53:11.000 And you have to defend that idea, even if it's a preposterous idea like the Earth is flat.

00:53:15.000 Right.

00:53:15.000 And what you find out is that these people form groups, and other people who have also sort of adopted this preposterous idea and refuse to look at all at any evidence that points that that's a silly idea, and instead they dig their heels in and get confirmation bias from all these other people,

00:53:31.000 and then they form these social media groups, Facebook groups, they go to websites, they get on web forums, and they start interacting with each other, and exclusively interacting with each other, and then Also, enforcing each other's beliefs.

00:53:45.000 Great job, man!

00:53:46.000 Good job attacking those shills!

00:53:49.000 Do you know if you think the Earth is round, you are a globetard?

00:53:54.000 That's the newest.

00:53:55.000 Jamie literally cringed.

00:53:57.000 Took him.

00:53:58.000 He had to step back, blink his eyes.

00:54:01.000 Yeah, you're a globetard.

00:54:03.000 That whole thing is because these people, someone said something that someone went...

00:54:08.000 People love to find secrets.

00:54:10.000 They love, like, this dinosaur thing is cool because it seems to be real.

00:54:13.000 Did you see the gal that said that all the fossils were basically people doing, like, kind of Michelangelo deal and chiseling them out of rock?

00:54:22.000 Because the fossils came out of Iraq, oh, you got... 1.00

00:54:24.000 And she actually... 0.77

00:54:25.000 What? 0.98

00:54:26.000 She has some pretty nice boobs, too. 0.99

00:54:28.000 Does she? 0.98

00:54:29.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:30.000 Maybe that's why people are listening.

00:54:32.000 She's like, I've got a platform. 1.00

00:54:34.000 No, you've got tits. 1.00

00:54:38.000 It's really good. 0.99

00:54:39.000 I mean, so she's basically like, okay, so these things come out of rocks.

00:54:43.000 And so these anthropologists, because there's millions of dollars in anthropology or archaeology, they're just chiseling these bones out of rock.

00:54:51.000 And yeah, here we go.

00:54:53.000 Is that her?

00:54:54.000 About fossils that are found in the ground.

00:54:57.000 What's that?

00:54:59.000 You don't want to play it?

00:55:00.000 I mean, it's against dinosaurs.

00:55:02.000 We need to play some of this.

00:55:03.000 Okay.

00:55:04.000 The composition and what they end up being when everything is said and done.

00:55:10.000 So a fossil is not actually a piece of bone.

00:55:16.000 A fossil is actually a bone that was once in the ground that has been then filled with Limestone, calcium, and other kind of stone-like deposits over the course of many,

00:55:34.000 many years.

00:55:34.000 What's going on with her left eye?

00:55:35.000 Is that a patch?

00:55:35.000 And at the end of the day, it ends up looking like a ball.

00:55:37.000 I know.

00:55:37.000 Glass eye.

00:55:38.000 Like, why is she doing that? 0.99

00:55:39.000 It's really rock inside of rock. 1.00

00:55:40.000 Push your fucking hair out of your eyes. 0.99

00:55:40.000 So, you have a rock this big. 0.99

00:55:42.000 And you say, okay, inside this rock this big, there's a bunch of fossils.

00:55:47.000 Here you go.

00:55:48.000 Okay.

00:55:48.000 And you hand the rock off to a paleontologist.

00:55:50.000 And the paleontologist takes a little mallet and they chip away at it and...

00:55:55.000 At some point they come out with something looking like a bum.

00:55:59.000 This is a problem.

00:56:01.000 Hold on.

00:56:01.000 This is a problem.

00:56:02.000 Just pause that. 1.00

00:56:03.000 The problem is some fucking idiot like this gets to talk about a subject that she's not educated in and no one is over her shoulder going, eh, that's not true. 1.00

00:56:11.000 Eh, that's not true. 1.00

00:56:12.000 And here's the thing to people that, you know, someone out there who buys into a lot of this stupid shit, you must be an expert in something. 0.99

00:56:21.000 You know, think about what you do for a living. 1.00

00:56:22.000 You know, like, think...

00:56:23.000 Here's a perfect example.

00:56:24.000 Like, if someone tried to tell me that...

00:56:28.000 Like, a lot of these chi-touch martial arts guys are too deadly to fight in the UFC. And if they make a video, they make a video about this, and I'm not there while they're making this video, so I can't talk to them, like, and stop them and pause them and go, nope, that's not true.

00:56:43.000 Nope, that's not, nope, that's not correct.

00:56:45.000 Nope, no, here's actually what happens when you get knocked out. 0.97

00:56:47.000 No, it is not a fucking chi-dispersion or dispersion technique. 0.97

00:56:52.000 You're not really interrupting the chakras flow. 1.00

00:56:55.000 No, it's a fucking concussion, stupid, and we can measure concussions. 1.00

00:56:58.000 We know about all the different variables in the blood when you can prove. 1.00

00:57:01.000 There's some new tests that I wanted to get into as well.

00:57:06.000 There's an institute now that's checking concussions, and they're doing blood tests on people to find out about concussions that they've had in the past and how those concussions have healed.

00:57:19.000 Obviously, I'm deviating from the path, but the point is, I know a lot about martial arts.

00:57:24.000 So if someone wants to do a video about martial arts, well, I am an actual martial arts expert, and I can talk to you about what you're saying that's incorrect.

00:57:31.000 I know about the history of it.

00:57:33.000 I know what works and why it works.

00:57:35.000 I know about torque and leverage and all these different variables.

00:57:39.000 But you could make a video without me being there, and you could ramble on, or not even me, any martial arts expert, and you could ramble on, and if someone doesn't know, they watch that, and they go, wow, that guy's dropping some truth bombs.

00:57:52.000 Right.

00:57:52.000 This is amazing.

00:57:53.000 You know, I don't know if you saw this, but Matt Thornton, he's the Straight Blast GM founder, really brilliant guy, and they put together this...

00:58:02.000 I forget who it was, but it's kind of a philosophy department, and they put together this kind of white sheet on using Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in particular as a means of teaching critical thinking to students.

00:58:14.000 Because there's this really testable, verifiable process.

00:58:19.000 Does it work or does it not work?

00:58:21.000 And you can define what working means versus this kind of like, you know, chi, dim, mock, death, touch type stuff.

00:58:27.000 And so they've actually developed this curriculum around using this physical process of Brazilian jiu-jitsu and I think also mixed martial arts in general, but specifically jiu-jitsu as a means of teaching critical thinking skills.

00:58:39.000 And it's a...

00:58:41.000 I'll noodle on what the search terms for it would be, but it's really interesting.

00:58:47.000 It's something that I think helps pull this stuff together because you've got that kinesthetic element of people being able to feel.

00:58:54.000 Okay, you know, somebody gets mounted onto you.

00:58:56.000 Can you get them off?

00:58:57.000 No.

00:58:57.000 Well, look at this 110-pound chick.

00:58:59.000 She can dismount this person because she's using these techniques of leverage and balance and timing and all that stuff. 0.99

00:59:05.000 And so then you can throw these things out about, is this a verifiable process?

00:59:10.000 Yes or no?

00:59:11.000 And it is.

00:59:12.000 And so then you start laying the foundation of being able to create a good critical thinking process.

00:59:18.000 One of the things that I really love about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in particular is that it seems to be a study in variable absolutes.

00:59:25.000 Meaning that there's so many variables involved in like two people engaging with each other.

00:59:31.000 Say if two people are blue belts and they engage with each other and one person dominates that person with superior technique and knowledge and gets the tap over and over again.

00:59:41.000 You could take that same person who dominated that person and then put him in there with a guy like Jacare.

00:59:47.000 And he would just get manhandled, and it would look like he knows virtually nothing about Jiu Jitsu.

00:59:53.000 Because one person's, the variables, the understanding of all the complexities of the techniques, they have mastered them, and they have also built their body to a much stronger physical unit.

01:00:06.000 So all these are variables, but the absolute is getting the arm bar, getting the choke, putting someone to sleep with the choke.

01:00:12.000 Like those things are absolutes.

01:00:14.000 Like when you tap out, If you're not just like a person who gets scared really quick and taps out for no reason, which does happen, but you're thinking about someone who has some experience.

01:00:24.000 When you're tapping out, you're essentially saying, you've got me into this absolute position.

01:00:28.000 I'm at the point of death or massive injury, knees tearing apart, arms breaking.

01:00:35.000 So... 0.99

01:00:36.000 In doing those you encounter these variable absolutes in a way that is really kind of uncommon in our world outside of fucking car accidents and someone hitting you over the head with a baseball bat.

01:00:47.000 And you encounter the consequences of actions and movements in a way that sort of makes you really appreciate The overall variables of life and how important it is to take care of your health.

01:01:01.000 How important it is to know what you're talking about.

01:01:04.000 You know, if fighting, I always try to talk about fighting as if it's a language. 1.00

01:01:08.000 And if one person has like one word they yell at you, and they're like really good at going, shut the fuck up! 0.99

01:01:14.000 Like one expression. 0.97

01:01:15.000 Like that might work with some people.

01:01:17.000 It's not going to work with someone who's got a really good grasp of the English language. 1.00

01:01:20.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:01:21.000 And why should I shut the fuck up? 1.00

01:01:22.000 Because you would like that? 0.99

01:01:23.000 Why would you like that? 1.00

01:01:24.000 Because you're too stupid to have a conversation about something you don't know what you're talking about? 1.00

01:01:26.000 And that person's like... 1.00

01:01:27.000 It's really like drowning, which is the same way you would feel if Damien Maia was on top of you trying to choke you.

01:01:33.000 Right.

01:01:33.000 It's a lot like a language.

01:01:35.000 Like you don't have enough variables to respond to this particular thing.

01:01:38.000 And then there's also the strength factor and all those other factors.

01:01:41.000 I think it teaches you critical thinking in a way that is almost unavailable outside of like...

01:01:49.000 War and, like, real physical trauma.

01:01:52.000 Because the beautiful thing about jiu-jitsu is, although you can get injured, most of it is pretty safe.

01:01:58.000 Right, compared to boxing or kickboxing.

01:02:00.000 Yeah, you've got a much more forgivable kind of margin of error on that.

01:02:04.000 Yeah, much more.

01:02:05.000 And I think the environment that it establishes, that it creates, and the way that effect that it has on your mind, where it's forcing you into these extreme problem situations and solving those problems, then understanding, where did that go wrong?

01:02:19.000 What can I do to my body to maybe strengthen myself so that I can stop that from happening?

01:02:26.000 Or maybe understand the position.

01:02:28.000 So two steps ahead, I recognize that if I go left, I run into that.

01:02:32.000 And if I go right, I run into this.

01:02:33.000 What I need to do is be patient, use my hips, hip escape, do this, do that.

01:02:37.000 And those variables and understanding those variables and having that database in your mind and recognizing that there's analogies that you could make in all sorts of avenues in life that where that would be greatly beneficial.

01:02:54.000 Well, and again, just another hat tip to Matt Thornton.

01:02:58.000 Like, he's just made this point that these alive arts, whether it's wrestling or boxing or Thai boxing, jujitsu, judo, there's kind of an authenticity with that. 0.75

01:03:11.000 You really can't bullshit. 0.94

01:03:13.000 It's kind of like, can you speak Spanish? 0.99

01:03:15.000 Okay, well, let's have a conversation in Spanish.

01:03:17.000 Let's read a Spanish newspaper and tell me what was going on with it.

01:03:20.000 Can you swim?

01:03:21.000 You know, Sam Harris, I think he wrote that piece, you know, Jiu-Jitsu was like drowning.

01:03:26.000 For a non-swimmer looking at someone treading water, it looks inconsequential, and you throw them in the water and they're going to die.

01:03:32.000 And so there's a real authenticity there that when you get in and do that, compared to some of the fantasy martial arts where...

01:03:58.000 It's fascinating.

01:04:02.000 Yeah, if you can keep from being injured.

01:04:04.000 And I think one of the things that really helps to keep from being injured is I think it's very critical to strengthen the body.

01:04:11.000 And I think there's a lot of people that don't like to do that.

01:04:13.000 They just like to train.

01:04:14.000 And I was guilty of that for quite a while until I just mounted up a series of injuries that I almost couldn't deny anymore.

01:04:20.000 Particularly back injuries, but strengthening the body and sort of strengthening the overall structure in which you engage in these sort of things, meaning not just like strengthening the body by lifting weights and doing squats, but also by yoga, also by...

01:04:36.000 Doing really unusual exercises like kettlebell windmills and stuff like that really puts a very bizarre load on the spine in weird ways and it really strengthens the core in a substantial manner that allows you to deal with the pressure of certain positions without succumbing to the attempt by your opponent.

01:04:57.000 Right.

01:04:58.000 You know, it's an interesting topic because you have someone like Marcelo Garcia that he's like, I just roll.

01:05:03.000 And clearly that works.

01:05:05.000 Yeah, but he's injured now.

01:05:06.000 Is he injured now?

01:05:07.000 Yeah, I mean, he's definitely, you can just roll.

01:05:10.000 Right.

01:05:10.000 You definitely can do it.

01:05:11.000 Until you can't.

01:05:12.000 Yeah, as good as technical as him.

01:05:14.000 He also has weird genetics.

01:05:16.000 Like, if you look at Marcelo's body, his legs look like a man who weighs 300 pounds.

01:05:20.000 Right.

01:05:20.000 I mean, he has cankles.

01:05:22.000 Yeah.

01:05:22.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:05:23.000 Giant calves, giant legs.

01:05:25.000 And that's one of the reasons why he's so good at controlling the back.

01:05:27.000 Right. 0.68

01:05:27.000 Is he's using his legs and smashing you with these huge legs. 0.68

01:05:31.000 Well, let me ask you about that.

01:05:33.000 Like, I've been a big fan, again, of kind of this straight blast gym stuff of, you know, like, non-attribute-based training.

01:05:39.000 Like, how do you break that up?

01:05:41.000 So, like, if you're flexible or you're explosive or what have you, how much of that do you rely on versus trying to develop this stuff where you've got a game that you could do whether you're 40 years old or 80 years old?

01:05:53.000 Like, how do you play back and forth with that to, you know, optimize that process?

01:05:58.000 That's a real good question, and I think a good study is Roy Jones Jr. And Roy Jones Jr., in his prime, was probably the most attribute-based fighter of all time, with substantial attributes.

01:06:10.000 His speed and his style, the movement in which he used inside the ring, was really very difficult for people to handle.

01:06:18.000 But as soon as that went away, his physical attributes sort of started to deteriorate.

01:06:24.000 His career declined substantially.

01:06:27.000 He went from being the best in the world to two years later people wanted him to retire.

01:06:31.000 And there's a bunch of variables that could have happened in that effect.

01:06:37.000 I think some manipulation of hormones.

01:06:40.000 I'm just speculating, but I believe steroids are probably involved in him moving up from light heavyweight to heavyweight, where he beat John Ruiz for the heavyweight title and was jacked at 200 pounds, shredded.

01:06:52.000 And then went down and fought Antonio Tarver and looked listless and soft and didn't look as fast.

01:06:59.000 And I think a lot of that was his body responding to the fact that his hormone levels were off.

01:07:05.000 And I don't know if he was checking that stuff and I bet he probably wasn't.

01:07:08.000 I bet he just had lost too much weight and dehydrated himself too much getting down to that 175 pound limit again.

01:07:14.000 So Tarver knocked him out and then Glenn Johnson knocked him out after the Tarver fight and it was bad.

01:07:18.000 Right.

01:07:19.000 I think that when Roy was in his prime, though, he did some things that were so hard to handle, so unconventional because of his ridiculous speed.

01:07:29.000 Like, very rarely did he throw the jab.

01:07:32.000 Instead, he would throw a lead hook. 0.98

01:07:34.000 He would throw a lead hook and it was as fast as a jab, but it would knock people the fuck out. 0.99

01:07:39.000 Right. 0.83

01:07:39.000 You know, he would just leap in on you and plop, and you'd see guys get hit, and then boom, the right hand would be behind it. 0.83

01:07:45.000 He was so fucking fast. 0.82

01:07:47.000 So when he was young, he beat Bernard Hopkins, and he beat him pretty handily. 0.98

01:07:53.000 When he was older, Bernard Hopkins beat him, and beat him pretty handily.

01:07:58.000 And Bernard Hopkins was always older than him.

01:08:01.000 So when he was young, Bernard Hopkins, who had that very defensive-based style, keeps his hands up very high, very technical, couldn't deal with the speed of Roy Jones Jr. He just was ridiculous. 0.92

01:08:12.000 But as soon as Roy lost a step in his speed, then his style's not really the best style. 0.80

01:08:18.000 The best style is the most technical style.

01:08:22.000 And you can do that most technical style with extreme attributes.

01:08:27.000 So I would agree with them that the best thing to learn is the proper way.

01:08:32.000 Learning all the techniques, like learning good defensive posture, good hands up when you're throwing strikes, good movement and footwork, and not just relying on freak athleticism.

01:08:43.000 I think it's probably the best way to attack it.

01:08:46.000 What do you think about the really grip-dependent games, you know, like all the Spider Guard and all that stuff?

01:08:51.000 Like, I see these guys doing really amazing stuff, but it seems like their hands are broken in a pretty young age.

01:08:58.000 And, I mean, maybe that's something that you burn just because you've got a competitive career and then you've got to kind of shift games.

01:09:03.000 But then you have someone like Kron who really...

01:09:07.000 He has an interesting open guard game where it's a lot of collar control and stuff like that, and he's not getting in and doing spider guard and inversions and whatnot.

01:09:16.000 And you could argue he's maybe not as successful as a lot of other people in that really competitive circuit, but he also seems to be motoring along pretty well, reasonably injury-free and still has a very powerful game.

01:09:28.000 Well, he has an incredibly powerful game.

01:09:30.000 You also have to think, well, his dad is the greatest jiu-jitsu player of all time that had to play a factor.

01:09:36.000 Although he didn't really train much with his dad, which is kind of unusual.

01:09:40.000 He doesn't have that...

01:09:42.000 He doesn't...

01:09:43.000 His dad, and when I say the basics, when I mean the basics, I don't mean like it's a simple game.

01:09:48.000 His game's very complex.

01:09:49.000 But he doesn't do any weird sort of De La Riva stuff or weird spider guard stuff.

01:09:57.000 His game is basically the same kind of jiu-jitsu you used to see in 1994 when Hickson was the king.

01:10:03.000 But...

01:10:05.000 It's just super tuned in and high level and razor sharp.

01:10:09.000 One of his best submissions is the guillotine.

01:10:12.000 Another best submission is the rear naked choke. 0.99

01:10:15.000 And if he gets you in those positions, you're fucksville. 0.99

01:10:17.000 And it's really just that his technique is so fucking sharp, and there's levels to that sharpness of technique. 0.99

01:10:25.000 There's some guys that just have a technique that is so goddamn sharp it's impossible to avoid. 0.96

01:10:31.000 Like on a lower level, but there's a guy named Paul Sass who used to compete in the UFC who used to fucking triangle everybody. 0.95

01:10:38.000 He won something like nine or ten matches by triangle. 0.96

01:10:41.000 It was ridiculous. 1.00

01:10:41.000 He just would pull guard and then you'd be fucked. 1.00

01:10:44.000 He would just figure out a way to wrap your neck and arm around his legs, squeeze the shit out of you, and next thing you know you're tapping or you're blacked out. 1.00

01:10:51.000 Right. 0.99

01:10:51.000 And people knew what he would do. 0.99

01:10:53.000 They knew that that was his game, and they would still get caught in a triangle. 1.00

01:10:56.000 It's like, what the fuck? 1.00

01:10:57.000 It's because his technique was so razor sharp. 0.99

01:11:02.000 So I think there's a lot of people that get caught up in those grabbing games, those grip-dependent games.

01:11:10.000 And maybe they would go, well, let me try it on you. 1.00

01:11:12.000 I'll fuck you up with it. 1.00

01:11:13.000 And maybe they would fuck me up with it. 1.00

01:11:14.000 But I honestly believe that... 0.97

01:11:17.000 The best jujitsu is jujitsu that you can do with a gi or without a gi.

01:11:22.000 And a lot of those guys, where they get into MMA, they don't have any handles to grab.

01:11:27.000 And so no-gi jujitsu is much more like Greco-Roman wrestling, whereas Eddie Bravo and his Tenth Planet jujitsu system, what he's done is sort of incorporate much more no-gi, like Greco-Roman control.

01:11:43.000 And you can do that.

01:11:44.000 I still roll with the gi, but when I do gi I very rarely grab the gi.

01:11:49.000 Right.

01:11:49.000 Everything I'm doing is like under hooks, over hooks, I'm getting gable grips, and I'm using no-gi techniques with the gi.

01:11:57.000 So, for me, what I like about the gi is defensively, I can't fuck around. 1.00

01:12:02.000 Right. 1.00

01:12:02.000 Like, I can't just yank out of arm bars and shit. 1.00

01:12:04.000 Like, if you're in there with a good guy and he's got you in his guard and there's a gi, there's so much friction that you have to really be careful. 1.00

01:12:11.000 But I think offensively, you have to be very careful to not use that gi.

01:12:15.000 Right. 0.99

01:12:16.000 The good thing about learning how to use the gi is, like, say if you get in a fight with someone and they have a winter coat on, they're fucking dead. 1.00

01:12:23.000 Right. 1.00

01:12:23.000 You know, some guy, some drunk wants to kick your ass, and you just get your hand inside his collar, and they're like, oh, look at you, you're a dead man. 1.00

01:12:30.000 You don't even know you're dead. 0.99

01:12:31.000 Like, if you get a guy who's, like, got a good Ezekiel choke or something like that, and he gets a hold of you, and he's on top of you, and he gets his own collar and wraps around, chokes you to death with his own arms, you know, it's...

01:12:41.000 That's good stuff.

01:12:42.000 Yeah, like a judo player. 1.00

01:12:45.000 If someone like Jimmy Pedro gets a hold of your leather jacket, you're fucked, man. 1.00

01:12:50.000 He's going to hit you with the world. 1.00

01:12:52.000 Essentially, when someone's throwing you on the ground like a real world-class judoka, they're hitting you in the head with the world.

01:12:59.000 They're going to throw you on your head.

01:13:00.000 You're going to go unconscious.

01:13:01.000 Have you guys had Henry Akin on?

01:13:04.000 No, I haven't.

01:13:04.000 Henry's amazing.

01:13:05.000 Such a good guy.

01:13:06.000 He's a black belt under Hickson as well.

01:13:08.000 I know Henry very well.

01:13:11.000 Hickson's black belts, there's a few black belts like, whoa, you got a Henzo Gracie black belt? 0.99

01:13:18.000 That's fucking legit. 0.84

01:13:19.000 There's a few of those like that, and Hickson is one of the most legit of those. 0.99

01:13:22.000 Right, yeah.

01:13:23.000 Henry's just a great guy, and his game is really interesting.

01:13:26.000 The Gi and the Nogi game are virtually identical.

01:13:28.000 I mean, you do a little collar stuff for the collar chokes and whatnot, but otherwise, it's... 0.79

01:13:34.000 It's just completely uniform from gi to no gi.

01:13:36.000 And so it's interesting for me, too, being 45 and trying to motor through this stuff, and I'm really not that bright of a person.

01:13:43.000 It's like, I need transferable job skills.

01:13:45.000 Like, I want to learn something once and not need a million nuances for things. 0.66

01:13:49.000 Do you know how many dummies right now are listening to this going, you're not bright? 0.74

01:13:52.000 What am I? Am I a fucking chimp? 1.00

01:13:54.000 Shit! 1.00

01:13:55.000 He's not bright? 1.00

01:13:56.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:13:57.000 Could be. 1.00

01:13:58.000 Now, what are you doing to regulate your hormones or check your hormones?

01:14:03.000 I check them about yearly.

01:14:05.000 And the main deal with that is just keeping a really good eye on my sleep, my nutrition, my recovery.

01:14:11.000 I do some HRV monitoring.

01:14:14.000 What is HRV? The heart rate variability.

01:14:16.000 So you check that in the morning.

01:14:18.000 And basically, HRV was studied, developed, discovered by the Eastern Bloc countries.

01:14:24.000 And it was part of the space program.

01:14:26.000 And it's looking at the total allostatic load or the stress load on an individual.

01:14:31.000 So the heart, if you have 60 beats a minute, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's beating once a second.

01:14:38.000 You may have three beats that go really fast, and then there may be a long pause, and then two beats, and so there's variability to it.

01:14:45.000 It's basically chaos mathematics that describes this stuff, but if you are not under significant stress, if your parasympathetic nervous system, the rest and restore part, I've found that if I keep an eye on my heart rate variability in conjunction with my

01:15:15.000 food and my sleep and all the rest of that stuff, then the hormones tend to stay pretty good in line.

01:15:20.000 But if they start pushing anything, if I start compromising sleep, For me, if I go too low carb, too long, particularly with some really hard training, then I will kind of get adrenalized and I get all the signs and symptoms of testosterone kind of dropping down and whatnot,

01:15:36.000 which is interesting because I know you've played around with that and seemed to have some pretty good success at keto-fueled rolling.

01:15:42.000 Yeah, well, what fascinated me is I'm on testosterone replacement therapy, and when I took my diet away from a high-carbohydrate diet to a much more high-fat diet, ketogenic diet,

01:15:58.000 my testosterone levels went way up.

01:16:00.000 Interesting.

01:16:02.000 And not just me, but a bunch of my friends who are also on testosterone replacement therapy reported the same thing.

01:16:07.000 Where they said, like, my friend John, his stuff doubled.

01:16:11.000 His levels doubled.

01:16:13.000 And he couldn't find any other variability, any other thing.

01:16:16.000 Was that just free testosterone or free and total?

01:16:19.000 Good question.

01:16:20.000 I believe it was free.

01:16:22.000 Okay.

01:16:22.000 But what it is apparently is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the precursors For testosterone are the saturated fats and cholesterol and your body produces testosterone from them.

01:16:35.000 When you have an abundance of them and you're in a healthy balance, it's not like you're consuming unhealthy foods.

01:16:43.000 When you get a healthy balance of those, your body produces more testosterone naturally.

01:16:49.000 Okay.

01:16:50.000 Well, and it's interesting, and this is where this stuff gets really complex, but usually when people are on a lower carb diet than this hormone called sex hormone binding protein or sex hormone binding globulin, that increases.

01:17:02.000 And what that can do, it can reduce the level of free testosterone.

01:17:06.000 So your total testosterone may look good.

01:17:08.000 The free testosterone may look great.

01:17:10.000 That's a not uncommon thing to happen on low carb diets.

01:17:13.000 But then the interesting side to that is that the receptor sites, which are really what matters in this whole story, the receptor site density for testosterone increases.

01:17:25.000 So you may not need as much to get the same effect that you would otherwise have.

01:17:30.000 Or if you have a little bit more testosterone, then you're going to get an even greater effect.

01:17:34.000 No, receptor site density.

01:17:36.000 What is causing that?

01:17:39.000 I don't fully know.

01:17:41.000 But when people are on a lower-carb diet, it does appear that anabolic hormones have a more pronounced effect than what they would have during a higher-carb period.

01:17:51.000 And I don't really know the mechanism behind how that works.

01:17:55.000 Definitely, if you have 100 units of testosterone or estrogen in one person and they have a certain number of receptor sites and then another person, same hormonal level but more receptor sites, then they are going to get a more potent anabolic response out of that.

01:18:13.000 Yeah.

01:18:13.000 There's so many variables.

01:18:15.000 And then when you take into account what we've discussed already about genetic variables, different people respond differently to carbohydrates and fats and proteins, it is so difficult for people to find the thing that works best for them.

01:18:27.000 Right, right.

01:18:28.000 For me, it seems like...

01:18:30.000 Keto or maybe a little bit more carbs than keto is the way to go.

01:18:33.000 Right.

01:18:34.000 You know, but what I do is one of the big things that I do is I supplement with exogenous ketones.

01:18:41.000 Okay, yeah.

01:18:41.000 And that seems to have a big effect on me.

01:18:43.000 It definitely puts me into a state of ketosis.

01:18:46.000 I use something called Kegenics, but I believe there's some other stuff on the market.

01:18:49.000 But Dom D'Agostino, who is a professor in, what is it, University of Florida?

01:18:54.000 Yeah.

01:18:54.000 And he is one of the foremost experts on keto.

01:18:57.000 And he's coming on the podcast soon.

01:18:59.000 We're working on finding a date.

01:19:00.000 But in the meantime, his interview with Tim Ferriss is amazing.

01:19:04.000 I think he's done twice, maybe more, on Tim's show.

01:19:08.000 But when he discusses it, you kind of understand what the benefits of being on this high-fat diet are.

01:19:15.000 And then you also realize...

01:19:18.000 What the compromises that your body has to make when you change it to a high carbohydrate, high sugar diet.

01:19:23.000 And one of the things that is a new study that Dr. Rhonda Patrick sent me recently was the dangers of Saturated fats have been sort of overstated, and a lot of it because of that.

01:19:38.000 I'm sure you're aware of that New York Times article about the sugar industry literally bribing scientists to lie in the 1950s and say that heart disease is being caused by saturated fats and taking the blame off of sugar. 0.70

01:19:51.000 And they altered data and really fucked with generations of people's ideas to change the information that we receive and fucked with people's heads.

01:20:04.000 Processed sugar mixed with saturated fat is actually not healthy at all. 0.97

01:20:09.000 Right.

01:20:09.000 And it actually perhaps could be more unhealthy than processed sugar alone.

01:20:15.000 Right.

01:20:16.000 And it really makes sense because if we over consume carbohydrates in general, then we fill up the liver glycogen and then the liver starts converting this into palmitic acid, which is a saturated fat.

01:20:28.000 And that palmitic acid tends to make us insulin resistant.

01:20:31.000 And there's good mechanisms behind that.

01:20:34.000 Like there's good kind of engineering there if we're eating a little bit more of an ancestral type diet.

01:20:40.000 But when you throw a modern processed diet and sedentism and messed up circadian rhythm, you know, not going to bed on time, not getting enough daylight sun, then the whole mess ends up being really pro-inflammatory and very much moving you towards this insulin resistant profile.

01:20:57.000 Now what is it about sugar where when you are not consuming it on a regular basis and then you take some time like I've gone like really strict ketogenic for four or five months and then I'll go off and have like a milkshake and fries and I can't fucking believe how bad I feel. 0.68

01:21:17.000 Yeah.

01:21:18.000 And I've got to think that there's my body just doesn't know what to do with it anymore.

01:21:21.000 It doesn't.

01:21:22.000 During the state of ketosis, so, you know, and you say normal, it's like normally the brain runs off glucose, but what's really normal?

01:21:29.000 Like for me, normal is trying to look at this from this ancestral template, you know, and so for eons, humans and every other organism on the planet didn't have consistent food.

01:21:40.000 And because our brain is so big and it's so metabolically active, even though I think it's like 2% of our body weight, but 20% of the energy use, it's really important that we protect that.

01:21:51.000 And so the process of ketosis is a workaround so that we don't have to break down protein to convert it into glucose to feed the brain.

01:22:00.000 We can break down body fats.

01:22:01.000 The body fat gets turned into ketone bodies, which are water soluble and can go through the blood brain barrier and it can fuel the brain in a really effective way.

01:22:09.000 But when you do that, what you are trying to do is spare glucose just for the brain, just for the red blood cells, the few tissues that have to run on glucose, like they have no other workarounds.

01:22:21.000 So red blood cells...

01:22:22.000 And then some parts of the brain.

01:22:23.000 So some parts of the brain, if you're on a really restricted sugar diet, they will suffer.

01:22:30.000 Initially, until you get ramped up into ketosis, and then you're fueling more of the brain.

01:22:35.000 And the numbers vary.

01:22:38.000 Somewhere between 70-80% of the brain can shift over fully to ketone body metabolism.

01:22:43.000 But the other 20 can't.

01:22:44.000 Can't.

01:22:45.000 20 to 30. And we always, even in ketosis, we still have a blood glucose level that's being metered out by the liver.

01:22:52.000 Mm.

01:22:52.000 But what the body does is it creates what's called metabolic insulin resistance where the muscles become insulin resistant so that we don't use glucose in the muscles.

01:23:03.000 We're using free fatty acids and we're using ketone bodies.

01:23:07.000 So then you go and you've been ketotic for a while.

01:23:10.000 You have physiological insulin resistance to support and maintain that ketotic state.

01:23:15.000 That's totally fine.

01:23:16.000 But then your first meal out of that is like the milkshake, you know, fries, you know, 200 grams of carbohydrate.

01:23:25.000 And because you're physiologically insulin resistant, it takes a massive amount of insulin to be able to push that stuff into storage.

01:23:32.000 And it will make you feel like death.

01:23:35.000 I feel terrible.

01:23:36.000 I always need a nap.

01:23:37.000 I have headaches. 1.00

01:23:38.000 And I'm like, what kind of a pussy have I become? 1.00

01:23:40.000 Like, what's happening here? 1.00

01:23:41.000 Because it used to be easy for me.

01:23:43.000 Right.

01:23:44.000 And, you know, that...

01:23:46.000 It's an interesting trade-off because you could make an argument that we should be able to live like a cockroach.

01:23:52.000 You bounce back and forth.

01:23:54.000 Under ideal circumstances, we would be resilient and we could be able to shift these fuel substrates.

01:24:02.000 And this is some of the argument for intermittent fasting, where you force your body to run off of fats and maybe you do...

01:24:09.000 Carbohydrates.

01:24:35.000 It's all really speculative.

01:24:36.000 I don't really know what the right answer is with any of that stuff, but it is interesting, and it does kind of call into question how useful is chronic ketosis relative to being able to cycle in and out of it.

01:24:50.000 I don't have a good answer, but I definitely feel best when I'm ketotic.

01:24:54.000 You feel best when you're ketotic, but you tend to do a little bit higher carbohydrates to fuel the jujitsu.

01:25:00.000 And that doesn't knock you out of a state of ketosis as long as you've been fairly consistent?

01:25:05.000 It does.

01:25:06.000 So when I'm fully keto adapted, the blood ketone levels are higher.

01:25:11.000 And also, if I needed to miss a meal, if I just didn't get breakfast, lunch, dinner, and I want a full day, it would be inconsequential.

01:25:18.000 I would be a little hungry, but it really wouldn't affect me at all.

01:25:21.000 That's the biggest benefit, in my opinion.

01:25:23.000 Yeah, it's huge.

01:25:24.000 And so when I do that 75 to 120 grams of carbs to fuel the jujitsu, I can't do that as easy.

01:25:31.000 Like, 10 hours in, 12 hours in of, you know, so I sleep through the night, so I've got a 12-hour fast, then I get up, and if I tried to go to 6 p.m.

01:25:41.000 that day, I'd be hungry.

01:25:42.000 I wouldn't be totally broken down, dysfunctional, like I was when I was You know, insulin-resistant sugar burner, but it's not the same as being keto-adapted.

01:25:51.000 Now, do you mess at all with exogenous ketones?

01:25:54.000 I do a little bit, but the ketone salts give me the trots.

01:25:57.000 Oh, no.

01:25:58.000 Yeah, so those are kind of rough.

01:25:59.000 I do a lot of the caveman coffee and then their MCT oil, and I'll actually mix that up with peanut butter and then either soy lecithin or sunflower lecithin because it kind of emulsifies all that stuff, so I'll mix it up.

01:26:13.000 And then I'll eat that.

01:26:15.000 And I get a decent, like a 0.5 millimolar blood ketone level off of that, even though I'm eating some carbs with it.

01:26:22.000 That's interesting.

01:26:23.000 So now your peanut butter is a sugar-free peanut butter, a natural peanut butter?

01:26:27.000 Yeah, just basic peanut butter.

01:26:27.000 Yeah, you say peanut butter, people think, oh, Jif, I'm going to just eat it by the tub.

01:26:30.000 Right.

01:26:31.000 Well, and then in Paleo land, peanuts are legumes, and so there's a bunch of super hardcore Paleo folks that are freaking out and dying right now that I'm eating peanut butter.

01:26:41.000 Now, why don't Paleo people like... 0.97

01:26:44.000 Peanuts. 0.99

01:26:45.000 What the fuck's wrong with them? 0.97

01:26:46.000 So legumes do have some what we call immunogenic properties. 0.98

01:26:50.000 They can irritate the immune system.

01:26:52.000 And if you improperly prepare them, then they can make you really sick.

01:26:57.000 Like if you cooked some black beans or kidney beans or something, you didn't cook them enough and you ate them.

01:27:03.000 It can give you gastritis, like where you're shitting blood, essentially.

01:27:07.000 It's pretty nasty stuff.

01:27:09.000 And these are the anti-predation chemicals that are in grains and legumes.

01:27:13.000 But if you soak them overnight, you pull off the rinse water, maybe sprout them for a day, and you don't even have to do that involved.

01:27:20.000 I think?

01:27:39.000 Grains and legumes may be something that you want to minimize because it is immunogenic for a lot of people.

01:27:45.000 And this is the success that we've seen with this autoimmune paleo approach.

01:27:49.000 So I think that the unfortunate thing is, on the one hand, there are a lot of people who dismiss the power of limiting these foods in people that it would benefit.

01:28:00.000 They're like...

01:28:00.000 We're good to go.

01:28:23.000 You know, I've got to throw myself under the bus.

01:28:26.000 I've probably been that person for a decade or longer, you know, but over the course of time, just life, it's that jujitsu thing again, you know, where it's like the truth will pound you and at some point you either get it or you just become this like calcified old turd and you can't learn or grow.

01:28:42.000 And over the course of time, it just became obvious that if your gut's healthy, if all the cylinders are firing, doing some grains and legumes is probably not going to be a negative problem for you.

01:28:53.000 But if you are a cop or a firefighter in the military and you've historically been able to eat these foods and then you go to a shift work schedule and you're under a massive amount of stress because of an altered sleep-wake cycle, those foods that may have been okay may no longer now be okay.

01:29:10.000 And so that's another piece that people just need to remain open that something that's working for you today may not work for you tomorrow.

01:29:18.000 And then, you know, something that worked for me may not work for this other person.

01:29:21.000 It's kind of common sense, but people just desperately in this health, wellness, nutrition realm, they want black or white, yes or no, binary stuff.

01:29:31.000 This is good.

01:29:32.000 That's bad.

01:29:32.000 And as much as I would...

01:29:34.000 It would make my life way simpler if that was the case, but it's just not.

01:29:38.000 There's all this variability in there.

01:29:41.000 Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

01:29:43.000 Yes. 0.99

01:29:55.000 When you don't have any time in a topic, then you assume that you know everything about it, and they call it Mount Stupid. 1.00

01:30:01.000 And I spend a lot of time in Mount Stupid. 0.99

01:30:04.000 As we all have. 1.00

01:30:05.000 As we all have.

01:30:06.000 And then there's this low ebb, the dark tea time of the soul, you know, where you've been in it.

01:30:12.000 Yeah, there we go.

01:30:12.000 And so as that stretches out, then you get some, hopefully, some degree of aptitude.

01:30:18.000 But the As you learn more and more and more, your confidence about any given topic just starts going down more and more.

01:30:25.000 And I'm at this point now where I'm like, I don't know if I know anything about any topic.

01:30:30.000 And I guess that that's kind of a good process.

01:30:32.000 Ten years ago, I was much more confident about a whole host of things.

01:30:36.000 It's like there's a right answer and there's a wrong answer.

01:30:38.000 And today, I just really don't know.

01:30:41.000 Yeah, there's a great expression about that.

01:30:43.000 As the lake of knowledge increases, the shoreline of ignorance grows as well.

01:30:48.000 I think Dennis McKenna had a take on it too, that as you increase the bonfire of knowledge, it exposes the greater level of ignorance, as the light does.

01:30:58.000 Yeah.

01:30:59.000 But it's a natural human tendency for some strange reason to want to know everything or to want to pretend you know everything.

01:31:05.000 It's like a defensive mechanism or something.

01:31:07.000 It definitely is a defensive mechanism and it's just so appealing to basically put a fence around what your current knowledge state is and be like, there it is, we're good, you know?

01:31:18.000 And it's a really tough deal to just kind of dangle in the breeze and to hang that sign, you know, good until further notice, yeah.

01:31:25.000 And that's why today it's so weird, because you can find other people that agree with you on that, and they pump you up, and they give you that confirmation bias, and they support each other, and they get together and make fun of everybody who's not in the know, who's not hashtag woke.

01:31:39.000 Right, right.

01:31:40.000 Oh, God.

01:31:41.000 Yes.

01:31:42.000 And, you know, I had a lot of that, like running a CrossFit-type gym.

01:31:46.000 I would recommend this low-carb, paleo type of approach.

01:31:50.000 And for people that were insulin resistant, overweight, it worked amazingly well.

01:31:54.000 And then when I started working with more MMA-oriented folks and CrossFitters, It took a long time in breaking a lot of people to figure out, okay, these people need some more carbs.

01:32:08.000 They may not need as much as what they've historically done, but this fully keto-fueled process is probably not going to work with them.

01:32:15.000 And it broke some people, including myself.

01:32:18.000 Well, it's very hard for people to wrap their head around the idea that eating fruit is not a good idea.

01:32:23.000 Like, eating too much fruit could be bad for you.

01:32:25.000 People are like, what?

01:32:26.000 I can eat a banana and some strawberries and some grapes and an orange, and I feel great.

01:32:33.000 And some people might, but there's a lot of people that can get in the deep end of the blood sugar management story.

01:32:40.000 That seems so counterintuitive to what we've been told as kids.

01:32:45.000 Like, have some fruit.

01:32:46.000 It's good for you.

01:32:47.000 It tastes good and it's good for you.

01:32:48.000 Like, oh, okay, great.

01:32:49.000 It's good for you.

01:32:50.000 Well, and it's interesting.

01:32:51.000 We have these old variety crab apples on my property.

01:32:56.000 Oh, those are nasty.

01:32:56.000 Johnny Appleseed kind of deal.

01:32:58.000 And that's what apples effectively used to be.

01:33:00.000 We used to throw those at each other.

01:33:02.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:33:02.000 We make cider out of it, and it turns pretty good for that.

01:33:06.000 But if you pull up like an image of what an original banana looks like. 0.97

01:33:11.000 Oh, they're ridiculous. 0.87

01:33:12.000 It's like a thumb. 0.96

01:33:13.000 Yeah, it's tiny and it's all seeds and there's hardly any edible structure to it.

01:33:18.000 And so if you look at most of the fruit that was available kind of pre-agriculture and that selective breeding of fruit, like it was much smaller, wasn't as sweet.

01:33:28.000 And again, it's not to say that you shouldn't have any of that stuff, but it's just, there was an interesting piece that came out of the UK where it was looking at feeding kids fruit.

01:33:38.000 They were like, let's recommend that these kids eat fruit.

01:33:41.000 And the kids already had a hypercaloric diet.

01:33:44.000 They were eating too much.

01:33:45.000 They were eating too many carbs.

01:33:47.000 And then they threw fruit on top of it. 0.83

01:33:50.000 And they're like, wow, adding fruit to this already shitty overeating program made it worse.

01:33:55.000 And it was like there was going to be some sort of magic that came out of adding some fruit to this story.

01:34:01.000 Whereas the kids just needed to pull more of the junk out and get some sort of both caloric control and some carbohydrate control.

01:34:09.000 Is there any fruit that is in its original state?

01:34:14.000 Like maybe pomegranates.

01:34:15.000 Berries are pretty, you know, blueberries, blackberries, those sorts of things.

01:34:21.000 Especially wild ones.

01:34:21.000 Yeah.

01:34:22.000 They're pretty similar to the original.

01:34:23.000 Have you had wild blueberries?

01:34:25.000 Yeah.

01:34:25.000 Not that sweet.

01:34:26.000 Not that sweet.

01:34:26.000 No.

01:34:27.000 Different flavor, you know?

01:34:29.000 Yeah.

01:34:29.000 I've picked them, like, in the wild, like in the backcountry.

01:34:33.000 Right.

01:34:33.000 Like a blueberry, and it's just like, hmm, this is a...

01:34:35.000 It's not bad, but it's not spectacular.

01:34:37.000 It's not what you're used to.

01:34:38.000 Yeah.

01:34:39.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:34:40.000 But oranges, clearly, they've been fucked with. 0.99

01:34:44.000 Right. 0.99

01:34:44.000 Yeah, apples. 0.99

01:34:45.000 Like, we were on a trip once and bought these apples, and they were literally like the size of a softball.

01:34:51.000 Right.

01:34:51.000 And you bite into it, it's like the most delicious dessert you could ever have.

01:34:55.000 I'm like, this can't be a fucking real regular apple. 0.97

01:34:58.000 Right. 0.98

01:34:58.000 Something's been going on. 0.98

01:34:59.000 It's Chernobyl apple.

01:35:00.000 I mean, how much of our food, I mean, especially our fruit, how much of it is genetically altered?

01:35:04.000 It's got to be massive amounts.

01:35:06.000 Yeah, and you know...

01:35:08.000 That GMO story, I'm in a spot where I usually piss everybody off about it because I am way less concerned about genetic modification of these things and more concerned about some of the business practices that happen.

01:35:23.000 Like, we've been doing selective breeding for thousands of years, and that has modified the genetics.

01:35:27.000 Back to the wolf-turning-into-dog story.

01:35:30.000 Tomatoes, everything.

01:35:31.000 And without...

01:35:32.000 I mean, the classic thoughts of frankenfoods.

01:35:35.000 Right.

01:35:35.000 Meaning laboratory...

01:35:37.000 Some sort of injection into...

01:35:40.000 That's not what's going on.

01:35:41.000 Selective breeding, for the most part.

01:35:42.000 Yeah, most of it's selective breeding.

01:35:44.000 And the thing about GMO, too, is the apologist for it, like, when you look at the results that you get with the GMO, the genetic modification, it's really unimpressive.

01:35:54.000 I mean, it's not, like, dramatically increasing yields.

01:35:58.000 What it inevitably is doing is creating something that's usually more resistant to Roundup than what the last thing was.

01:36:05.000 Yeah, which is legitimately some pretty nasty stuff.

01:36:10.000 And so it doesn't really seem to be working any type of magic as far as feeding the world or anything like that.

01:36:17.000 It is creating a funnel where in order to grow this thing, you need more chemical fertilizer input.

01:36:23.000 You need more pesticide input.

01:36:26.000 And it just seems to be this feed-forward mechanism on that.

01:36:29.000 And so I'm really, from a health standpoint, I'm not that freaked out about GMOs just as a baseline.

01:36:35.000 But from a really shady business practice, I'm not a big fan from actually moving the needle on food production.

01:36:43.000 It's really unimpressive to me.

01:36:45.000 So my position on GMOs usually just makes everybody mad because I'm not really jumping into either one of these camps whole hog.

01:36:54.000 Well, food production in general, when you look at these gigantic large-scale farms, that is one of the most unnatural things you're ever going to see in life.

01:37:01.000 Right.

01:37:02.000 These giant cornfields.

01:37:04.000 Right.

01:37:04.000 It's so unnatural.

01:37:06.000 Right.

01:37:06.000 Monocrop.

01:37:07.000 Yeah.

01:37:07.000 And not only the monocrop, but those are genetically modified monocrops, and you want to kill off all the weeds.

01:37:13.000 Right. 0.99

01:37:14.000 So you're spraying your genetically modified monocrops with some shit that kills off everything but your genetically modified monocrops, and who knows what that consequence is on the human body. 0.99

01:37:24.000 Right. 0.98

01:37:24.000 Well, you know, so Roundup is now being suggested or has been suggested for a long time as a mitochondrial disruptor, similar to that antibiotic story. 0.98

01:37:35.000 So this is where people, you know, the last questions about like, well, what about this gluten intolerance thing?

01:37:40.000 Like people didn't have it 50 years ago.

01:37:42.000 Why is it going on now?

01:37:43.000 And we really don't know, but maybe it's antibiotics.

01:37:46.000 Maybe it's changes in the gut microbiome.

01:37:48.000 But a lot of this stuff seems to have a mitochondrial dysfunction piece to it.

01:37:52.000 Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, type 2 diabetes, they all seem to have mitochondrial dysfunction elements to them.

01:37:58.000 The mitochondria is not producing energy the way that it should.

01:38:02.000 And back again to that point about being flexible with our fuel systems, people seem to be becoming inflexible in their fuel systems.

01:38:09.000 And this ketotic state may be the default that we're able to go back to to be able to maintain some degree of health.

01:38:16.000 And it also seems to press a reset button in the mitochondria where we get apoptosis and cell death.

01:38:22.000 And abnormal cells, but the need for people to shift towards a lower-carb diet may be reflective of some changes in the environment where we're being made sick by things like glyphosate or maybe over-aggressive antibiotic use, and then the thing that we need to default back to to be able to be healthy is some sort of a low-carb or ketogenic diet.

01:38:43.000 Now, when you're talking about foods and foods that people eat and breads and gluten deficiencies or gluten intolerances, what about sprouted breads?

01:38:54.000 And what are the difference between something like an Ezekiel bread and say like a Wonder Bread?

01:38:59.000 Yeah.

01:38:59.000 So with an Ezekiel bread, they soak these grains, pour off the water, let them sprout.

01:39:04.000 And in that sprouting process, the enzymes that are released tend to break up the gluten and gliadin proteins.

01:39:10.000 And for a lot of people who are gluten intolerant with like a piece of Wonder Bread or, you know, standard French bread, they could eat something like the Ezekiel bread.

01:39:19.000 Not everybody can.

01:39:20.000 I can't.

01:39:20.000 You can't eat it?

01:39:21.000 If I had a piece, when I hit your bathroom, it would need a priest and an exorcism afterwards.

01:39:26.000 Really?

01:39:26.000 And you would brick it over and never use it again.

01:39:28.000 So do you have a gluten intolerance?

01:39:29.000 You know, I was never...

01:39:30.000 We've looked at, like, is it celiac?

01:39:32.000 Is it gluten intolerance?

01:39:33.000 But if I get some sort of a wheat exposure, and it's to the degree that, like, if a steak is grilled on a grill and somebody grilled French toast on the grill the day before, I'm going to be sick from it.

01:39:44.000 So I'm like the canary in the coal mine on it. 0.90

01:39:46.000 It sucks. 0.98

01:39:47.000 It's amazing. 0.99

01:39:47.000 That's fascinating, but does it have any effect on nutrient absorption? 0.99

01:39:52.000 Because of celiacs, a big part of it is when you're exposed to that bread, it's not just that you go to get diarrhea, but the nutrients are not getting into your system.

01:40:00.000 Right, because of the intestinal permeability.

01:40:03.000 The way I got into all this stuff, I was really, really sick and had ulcerative colitis.

01:40:07.000 And I'm about 175 pounds right now.

01:40:09.000 When my ulcerative colitis was at its worst, I was 130 pounds.

01:40:13.000 Whoa.

01:40:14.000 So I was 40 pounds skinnier.

01:40:16.000 How old are you?

01:40:17.000 I'm 45 now.

01:40:18.000 But how old were you then?

01:40:19.000 At that point, I was like 27, 28. Oh, wow.

01:40:22.000 Yeah.

01:40:23.000 Yeah.

01:40:23.000 So you looked like death.

01:40:25.000 I look like concentration camp deal. 0.93

01:40:27.000 Yeah.

01:40:28.000 And it was just malabsorption.

01:40:29.000 Like I couldn't absorb anything.

01:40:31.000 I was shoveling food down.

01:40:32.000 And for me at that point, it was a high, it was a grain and legume based kind of vegan diet, which for me was just not working for that point in my life.

01:40:43.000 Living in Seattle, not having any sun, that was a really, really bad move for me.

01:40:47.000 But I will say this, this was also on the heels of getting and resolving, at least to some degree, Giardia.

01:40:54.000 So I think that parasitic infection, low vitamin D levels, bad sleep, bad circadian rhythm, all that stuff fed into it.

01:41:03.000 Powerful combination there.

01:41:04.000 Yeah, if you want to get taken down at the kneecaps, that was a good way to do it.

01:41:07.000 And to cure Giardia, what did they give you?

01:41:11.000 Mitranidazole, which is an antimicrobial that they use for things like Giardia and then also some of the, like, Archibacter bacteria.

01:41:20.000 So these kind of parasitic bacteria type things. 0.91

01:41:24.000 And does that have an effect on mitochondria as well, the same way that antibiotics do?

01:41:28.000 It's not the same way, but it is a mitochondrial disruptor as well.

01:41:32.000 What is a pro-mitochondria supplement?

01:41:36.000 Is there anything that...

01:41:37.000 Oh, man.

01:41:37.000 So like resveratrol, fasting, ketosis, those things all tend to flip some switches in the mitochondria that make them healthier and more robust.

01:41:48.000 I've heard varying things on resveratrol being absorbable.

01:41:54.000 It's very difficult to absorb it.

01:41:57.000 Yeah.

01:41:58.000 Yeah.

01:41:58.000 What is the best way?

01:42:00.000 Usually it's some sort of an emulsification with fat and, you know, litholized.

01:42:05.000 And so it's quite fat soluble.

01:42:08.000 So if you can get it mixed into a fatty matrix, then it enhances the absorption.

01:42:12.000 But it does seem to...

01:42:13.000 And, you know, most of this data is Petri dish type data.

01:42:17.000 So we really don't know if it's having great effect in...

01:42:21.000 And then there's another layer to this.

01:42:23.000 A ton of these polyphenolics don't really enter the body or they don't enter the body as the original chemical.

01:42:30.000 They get modified by the gut bacteria and then either the gut bacteria manufacture a completely different chemical or some sort of downstream chemical is what enters the body or it may just interface with the gut lining and then the gut sends out different signaling molecules that then affects the rest of the body.

01:42:46.000 Wow, so depend upon the healthiness of your gut bacteria.

01:42:51.000 That's a massive...

01:42:54.000 It has a massive impact on whether or not that resveratrol or other similar nutrients get in your system.

01:42:59.000 It's just pharmaceuticals in general.

01:43:01.000 Like when you look at people going on a heart med or, you know, different things.

01:43:04.000 Like, something that they're understanding is not only do we have genetic differences, but the differences in the gut microbiome may have a really profound influence in the way that people respond to supplements, pharmaceuticals.

01:43:16.000 Yeah.

01:43:17.000 Yeah.

01:43:18.000 There's just so much to take in for the person, the average person who's listening to this that wants to...

01:43:23.000 Sort of optimize their health.

01:43:25.000 Yeah.

01:43:27.000 There's so many – there should be like – it's kind of amazing.

01:43:30.000 And I guess a lot of this is because this is a fairly new discipline in terms of the last few decades.

01:43:36.000 And guys like you who are on the forefront of it have done some – and Chris Kresser, who's gone through his own deal.

01:43:41.000 He was a macrobiotic vegan at one point in time.

01:43:44.000 And now he tells you to eat liver.

01:43:46.000 And you should see pictures of it.

01:43:48.000 He ended up getting a really nasty gut bug traveling in, I think, the Philippines.

01:43:53.000 And pictures of him before, he was, like, jacked.

01:43:57.000 Super thick legs, like thick neck, Thai boxer.

01:44:00.000 And now he's pretty weighty, and he's never really been able to put all the weight back on and kind of get back to as robust as what he was before that.

01:44:08.000 But it was another situation where maybe some irritation to the gut because of the diet.

01:44:14.000 And then definitely this infectious agent, whatever the bug was that he caught, just crushed him.

01:44:19.000 There should be some sort of a place that you could go, like a string of places, you know, where you can open them up in major cities, in metropolitan areas, where someone can go and find out, like, what is the right stuff to do.

01:44:33.000 I went to this one, they did some blood work on me, and the lady told me, avocados just don't agree with you. 1.00

01:44:39.000 I'm like, fuck off. 1.00

01:44:40.000 That is so dumb. 1.00

01:44:42.000 I eat avocados all the time. 0.99

01:44:43.000 They're great. 0.57

01:44:44.000 She's trying to come up with some sort of ridiculous blood test that shows that avocados... 1.00

01:44:50.000 I'm like, that's not real, right? 0.51

01:44:51.000 That can't be real, can it?

01:44:52.000 There's not much...

01:44:54.000 Again, that stuff gets really...

01:44:57.000 Especially avocados.

01:44:59.000 I know. 1.00

01:44:59.000 It's like, damn, avocados. 1.00

01:45:00.000 So if somebody has intestinal permeability... 0.99

01:45:03.000 For whatever reason, then you can become reactive on like the IgG antibody testing.

01:45:10.000 But the problem is not the food specifically.

01:45:14.000 The problem is that you have gut permeability.

01:45:17.000 So if you fix that gut permeability, then you're no longer really going to react to the food because the food doesn't get into your body then.

01:45:24.000 Break it down into the amino acids and fatty acids and the constituent carbs.

01:45:31.000 And so the immunogenic properties that it had before don't really matter because it's in your gut.

01:45:36.000 And when the contents are inside the gut, it's outside the body.

01:45:39.000 Is there any test that they can do with your blood that would show that in any way?

01:45:46.000 And is there any way that avocados, one of the healthiest foods known to man, could possibly be something you should avoid?

01:45:53.000 Avocados are a not uncommon allergen.

01:45:56.000 So some people do develop allergies to avocados.

01:45:59.000 They're a seed, essentially, with that fruit around it.

01:46:03.000 So there are some immunogenic proteins to it.

01:46:06.000 But you would have a pretty obvious reaction, then, if you were allergic to avocados.

01:46:10.000 Typically, yeah.

01:46:10.000 And this is where...

01:46:11.000 The reaction wouldn't be grabbing another chip and dipping it in the guacamole because it's awesome.

01:46:15.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:46:15.000 Yeah, and usually it's something like foggy-headedness or a GI issue or joint creakiness or something like that.

01:46:22.000 Creakiness?

01:46:22.000 Like the joints actually physically make noise?

01:46:24.000 No, they just don't feel so good.

01:46:26.000 Oh, okay.

01:46:26.000 Yeah.

01:46:26.000 So it feels like...

01:46:27.000 Yeah.

01:46:29.000 Now, what about sugar causes that inflammation?

01:46:31.000 Because that is a big factor with people that have injuries.

01:46:36.000 Even if it's not injuries, if they have...

01:46:39.000 Joint pain, like knee pains, back pains.

01:46:41.000 I've had this conversation with people and I got it from a chiropractor.

01:46:45.000 She said, believe it or not, like gluten insensitivity, just reducing gluten and becoming gluten-free will change the way injuries hurt, like back injuries. 0.99

01:46:54.000 And I thought, well, that sounds like some hippie bullshit. 0.99

01:46:57.000 Right. 0.98

01:46:57.000 And so this was many years ago when I started getting into this idea of inflammatory foods affecting the way your body and your joints particularly feel. 0.98

01:47:05.000 But she only took it to the point of gluten.

01:47:08.000 Right.

01:47:08.000 And then it wasn't a sugar thing for her.

01:47:11.000 Right.

01:47:11.000 And then once I started looking into sugar, I'm like, oh, these are all foods that cause inflammation.

01:47:16.000 But what is happening?

01:47:17.000 Like, what causes, how does sugar or high sugar, processed sugar diet, how does that cause inflammation?

01:47:24.000 Right.

01:47:25.000 So a couple of different mechanisms that can happen here.

01:47:27.000 We definitely understand that the sugar can feed bacteria, both good and bad bacteria.

01:47:35.000 Most of the bacterial mass, though, should be occurring in the colon, like pretty far south.

01:47:40.000 And if we eat a diet that's really deficient in fiber, high in refined carbohydrates, All of carbohydrates get absorbed early, and so there's not actually any food for the bacteria that should be living in the colon.

01:47:52.000 So these bacteria tend to move more upward in the GI tract, and this is where we get small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.

01:48:00.000 SIBO is a pro-inflammatory process, so that's one way that we can get inflammation out of that.

01:48:06.000 Another way is just when we get really wild swings in blood sugar, That tends to be a pro-inflammatory process.

01:48:13.000 So just the upregulation of insulin, particularly if it's over a chronic process, that can be a pro-inflammatory experience.

01:48:20.000 And then the other piece is, you know, if you start getting cortisol released in response to blood sugar crashes because you get hypoglycemic and you're trying to ping the liver to release some more glucose, that can be a pro-inflammatory process.

01:48:33.000 And what is the inflammation?

01:48:35.000 What's the physical reaction?

01:48:36.000 Like, what is happening when you say inflammation?

01:48:38.000 So there's a bunch of different mediators there.

01:48:41.000 So you've got different cytokines, these chemicals like interleukin-1, interleukin-6, that are turning on typically immune cells, and then other cells in the body are being affected as well.

01:48:52.000 But it's usually some sort of immune cell response, which then they, in their process in doing what they do, they tend to release chemicals, cytokines and similar chemicals, It can turn into a feed-forward mechanism.

01:49:05.000 So, you know, it's ultimately chemical messaging that can turn on other inflammatory processes in cells that are nearby and also the immune cells themselves.

01:49:17.000 So that is causing these joints to be painful?

01:49:22.000 Oh, and then back to the joints.

01:49:23.000 So whenever we do anything, any type of workout, even just exercise.

01:49:27.000 So this is an important point to make too.

01:49:30.000 Inflammation in and of itself isn't necessarily bad.

01:49:33.000 It's the amount and type and placement and all that type of stuff.

01:49:36.000 So exercise is a pro-inflammatory process.

01:49:40.000 It's what we call a hormetic stress.

01:49:42.000 So we get a little bit of this stress, ideally an appropriate dose, and the body senses this stress, and then it makes us stronger so that we can cope with a subsequent exposure to this.

01:49:53.000 But if our system is already pro-inflamed from poor diet, inadequate sleep, gut permeability, what have you, Then these little, you know, tears and bumps and bruises and adhesions that we get from physical activity, they never really heal because our body is allocating resources to deal with the inflammation in the gut and our kind of over-hyped up inflammatory response,

01:50:16.000 and it doesn't have the resources to deal with the inflammation in our joints and our muscle and whatnot.

01:50:23.000 Interesting.

01:50:24.000 So what are the best anti-inflammatory supplements or foods that people can take?

01:50:30.000 Because ibuprofen is something you should pretty clearly avoid now.

01:50:35.000 Use it sparingly.

01:50:36.000 Yeah.

01:50:37.000 And this is for people that are listening to this that are not aware.

01:50:41.000 It's been shown over the last few years in particular that ibuprofen is actually pretty dangerous and can cause a host.

01:50:51.000 Heart attack.

01:50:52.000 Yeah.

01:50:52.000 It increases like 60%.

01:50:54.000 Potential strokes.

01:50:56.000 A good friend of mine, Cameron Haynes, who's a marathon runner and an ultra-marathon runner, used to take it every day.

01:51:02.000 And he was always in pain.

01:51:03.000 Right.

01:51:03.000 And what's fascinating was I did a podcast with Rhonda Patrick where she talked about the dangers of it and talked about how horrible it is for your gut bacteria.

01:51:11.000 Right.

01:51:11.000 And that that could, in fact, be causing the actual inflammation that you're trying to fight with the ibuprofen.

01:51:16.000 Right.

01:51:17.000 This continual cycling loop got him off of it and his joint pain went away.

01:51:21.000 Right.

01:51:21.000 Which is just insane.

01:51:23.000 You think, how does this happen?

01:51:25.000 How does this guy has joint pain all the time?

01:51:27.000 And he's taking ibuprofen for the joint pain.

01:51:29.000 He thinks it's just a fact of life.

01:51:31.000 Well, and the joint pain is an inflammatory process.

01:51:33.000 And he's taking an anti-inflammatory, which you would think, oh, this is probably a win.

01:51:38.000 But, you know, and the complexity is kind of crazy.

01:51:42.000 But, yeah, and interestingly, it seems to be gut bacteria mediated.

01:51:46.000 Yeah.

01:51:46.000 Now, what...

01:51:47.000 When a person does have some sort of an issue, like a headache or some sort of a swollen joint or some pain, is there anything that you can take that has anti-inflammatory properties that doesn't have the negative health consequences?

01:52:00.000 For me, this is my own...

01:52:02.000 I'll maybe give you some of my own triage with this stuff.

01:52:05.000 I had an L4 or L5 disc injury about 15 years ago doing CrossFit at CrossFit HQ of all places.

01:52:12.000 It was pretty catastrophic.

01:52:15.000 What was the disc bulging?

01:52:17.000 So, the first workout was 75 glute ham sit-ups, which, you know, you're on like a glute ham developer and you're doing this super long range of movement sit-up.

01:52:26.000 And I ended up with abdo.

01:52:28.000 Like, basically, my stomach was inflamed.

01:52:31.000 It was inflamed for like 12 days.

01:52:33.000 It was about 13 days later, we're pulling abdo instead of rhabdo, like the rhabdomyolysis that people get.

01:52:39.000 Rhabdomyolysis is when you overtrain, your body literally starts breaking down your muscle tissues.

01:52:44.000 And it can plug up your kidneys and you can die.

01:52:47.000 Yeah.

01:52:47.000 So I had kind of a compartmental syndrome with this.

01:52:50.000 It was just in the abs, but it was bad.

01:52:53.000 So you just overworked your abs?

01:52:55.000 Massively overworked.

01:52:56.000 I mean, there was no scale-up, no ramp-up.

01:52:58.000 This is the first time I've seen this movement, and I did 75 reps up.

01:53:01.000 Yeah, it was ridiculous.

01:53:03.000 So 12, 13 days later, we were supposed to pull max deadlifts.

01:53:07.000 My abs were still not healed.

01:53:09.000 And I had like 465 on the bar.

01:53:11.000 I was just passing my knees and my abs just failed.

01:53:14.000 And so I had this like flexion injury with a lot of load at a very precarious spot.

01:53:19.000 And I had an L4, L5 disc injury.

01:53:22.000 It's bulging.

01:53:23.000 It's not ruptured.

01:53:24.000 But if I don't mobilize, if I sit too much, if my hip flexors get tight, it will get super cranky.

01:53:30.000 So I will get to spots, like if I'm working a lot, where I have to take some ibuprofen and I'll So you have this injury still to this day?

01:53:37.000 Oh yeah, yeah.

01:53:38.000 Like it's way better in general, but every once in a while I can piss it off pretty good.

01:53:42.000 Have you ever used a reverse hyper?

01:53:43.000 Yes.

01:53:44.000 Yeah, and it definitely helps.

01:53:45.000 Yeah, it definitely helps.

01:53:46.000 I mean, when I stay on my mobility maintenance cycle, I am good to go.

01:53:52.000 But when I get super busy, when I'm traveling, you know, if I have to sleep in a weird bed or something, like, it tends to be a cumulative thing that adds up over like two weeks, and then I can get kind of a backfire.

01:54:02.000 For people who, someone just asked about this on Twitter yesterday, the Reverse Hyper is a machine created by a guy named Louie Simmons, who is a really famous powerlifter and a completely insane person. 0.98

01:54:14.000 If you want to listen to the podcast Jamie and I did with him at his place, West Side Barbell, he's a fucking nut.

01:54:21.000 But genius in making this machine that allows active decompression of the spine. 0.96

01:54:26.000 I'm a big fan of it.

01:54:28.000 Do you do any sort of spinal decompression exercises?

01:54:31.000 Yeah, so both, you know, kind of the inversion board and then also just hanging.

01:54:37.000 I'll actually use some, you know, weightlifting straps and go out on a pull-up bar, hands together, and I'll hang for like three minutes at a shot.

01:54:45.000 So I'm getting like thoracic decompression and then also...

01:54:48.000 Oh, so it's not grip dependent.

01:54:49.000 Right.

01:54:49.000 I do that, but I do it with a grip.

01:54:51.000 I just, because I feel like for jujitsu and for all the other things, I need strong hands.

01:54:55.000 So I'll just kill two birds with one stone.

01:54:56.000 Yeah.

01:54:57.000 Yeah, for that, I'm wanting such a training stimulus for loosening my thoracic girdle and everything that it's going to wipe out my grip.

01:55:05.000 My grip would fail way before I would get that kind of thoracic opening.

01:55:09.000 Did you ever think maybe you should work your grip to balance that out?

01:55:12.000 Pretty good grip, but I mean, we're talking about it's a fairly fat bar also that I have at home.

01:55:17.000 And so I'm just using that as a little bit of a bridge for that.

01:55:21.000 There's a real benefit in having a fatter bar, right?

01:55:26.000 Because you can get strength from here rather than strength from this closed.

01:55:29.000 I think, again, like this variety, you know, like getting as much variety as possible.

01:55:34.000 I love rope climbs.

01:55:35.000 Like if I had one pulling movement I was going to use, it would probably be a rope climb.

01:55:39.000 Really?

01:55:39.000 That's interesting.

01:55:40.000 Yeah.

01:55:41.000 How come?

01:55:42.000 You get this unilateral movement, but you're also, like, you get pec involvement, lats, serratus, the whole thing.

01:55:50.000 And as you pull it in, it tends to look a lot like a lot of the positions and the strength in jujitsu.

01:55:56.000 And so you also, as part of it, you can work these lock-offs as part of the transition.

01:56:02.000 So for me, it just ends up getting more development across my back, my arms, my shoulders.

01:56:08.000 In one movement than I can get from any other type of pulling activity.

01:56:12.000 That makes sense.

01:56:13.000 Now, as far as lower back decompression, do you ever do that one where you're hanging from your waist only, from the waist down?

01:56:21.000 Yeah.

01:56:21.000 I love that one.

01:56:22.000 That one seems to isolate the lower spine.

01:56:25.000 What is the name of that thing that we have in the back, Jamie?

01:56:27.000 The one that does that?

01:56:28.000 There's that one spinal decompression machine that we put together back there?

01:56:33.000 The one with your feet?

01:56:34.000 The hang-ups thing?

01:56:34.000 No, not the hang-up one, but the other one.

01:56:36.000 The one that you kind of...

01:56:37.000 Oh, I know what you're talking about.

01:56:38.000 It looks like a Roman sit-up chair, but it's just for decompression.

01:56:43.000 Right.

01:56:44.000 And you just lean forward, and it seems to target directly the lower back much better than just the ankle ones.

01:56:51.000 Right.

01:56:51.000 The ones from the ankle, I feel like my legs are holding a little too much stress, and I'm controlling it a little too much.

01:56:58.000 Right.

01:56:59.000 Whereas this one, I can completely let go.

01:57:01.000 Right.

01:57:01.000 Well, in some of the gravity boots, they were finding that people were getting laxity in their knees, like the knees were giving way before you really decompress the back.

01:57:10.000 That makes sense.

01:57:11.000 Yeah, that makes sense.

01:57:12.000 But also some of that laxity in the knees probably relieves some knee pressure on some folks as well, sort of like how shoulder hangs releases a lot of shoulder pain in some people.

01:57:22.000 Right, right, yeah, totally, totally, yeah.

01:57:24.000 But, you know, back to your question about the anti-inflammatories, like, if I get a really spicy backflour, I will do 800 milligrams of ibuprofen, but I'll hit it once, and then I'm good.

01:57:36.000 And do you feel any adverse effects because you don't do it a lot?

01:57:40.000 Do you feel it, like, do you take it and then feel any health consequences?

01:57:43.000 I don't, but I mean, one of the primary health consequences is keeling over from a heart attack or stroke.

01:57:49.000 So it's, you know, but it's one of those things where I've played with it.

01:57:52.000 And once it gets in that, you know, I can ice it and I can do stem and all that stuff helps.

01:57:57.000 But it's just like, man, if I can get one targeted bolus of ibuprofen, 800 milligrams, I hit it once.

01:58:04.000 And it just drops it down.

01:58:07.000 And then, you know, it changes the whole thing from being a two-day issue to like a 12-day issue.

01:58:13.000 Because otherwise, it'll just kind of drag on.

01:58:15.000 And I've just gotten to a point where if I really get myself into a bad spot with my mobility or just getting this thing pissed off, then it's like, okay, I've just got to do this.

01:58:24.000 But beyond that, there's this product from a new chapter called Zyflamend.

01:58:29.000 And it's really, really pretty slick as far as an anti-inflammatory.

01:58:35.000 It pulls some ginger extracts, curcumin.

01:58:39.000 They do a supercritical extract on it.

01:58:42.000 And that stuff is pretty legit.

01:58:43.000 And that can, for a lot of people, like I haven't found that it works as well on that.

01:58:49.000 Pain and inflammation reduction when my back gets really spicy, but it's pretty darn good.

01:58:55.000 And everything that's in it, you can make some arguments it would be pretty beneficial over the long haul, like it's these COX-2 pathways modifiers, but it does it in a different way than what the ibuprofen does.

01:59:09.000 Is it dose dependent?

01:59:10.000 I mean, is there like a point of diminishing returns where you get, you know, 800 milligrams is like the magic number for ibuprofen.

01:59:16.000 They say you shouldn't go over that.

01:59:17.000 Right.

01:59:18.000 But is it something like that with this stuff?

01:59:20.000 I don't know.

01:59:21.000 I don't know.

01:59:21.000 Like they have a recommended dose on it, but I haven't really played around with that.

01:59:25.000 But I mean, everything usually has some sort of a, you know, kinetics, like dose response curve with it.

01:59:30.000 So I would assume so.

01:59:32.000 Yeah.

01:59:32.000 Yeah, that's why I was wondering, like, what if you took, like, hyper doses?

01:59:35.000 I haven't tried that.

01:59:36.000 I have not tried that.

01:59:37.000 Because it's all natural stuff, right?

01:59:39.000 Yeah.

01:59:39.000 Curcumin is not really dangerous in larger doses, is it?

01:59:43.000 I don't know about the toxicology on that.

01:59:47.000 You know, like...

01:59:51.000 Just because it's natural doesn't necessarily mean that it's non-toxic.

01:59:54.000 Strychnine.

01:59:55.000 Strychnine, arsenic.

01:59:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:59:57.000 So that's interesting.

02:00:00.000 That is an interesting idea.

02:00:01.000 I haven't really thought about going beyond what the recommended is on that.

02:00:05.000 Yeah, I would wonder if that would ramp it up.

02:00:07.000 Now, other than that, what about aspirin?

02:00:09.000 Aspirin has some benefit.

02:00:11.000 Aspirin has some benefit, but it's kind of an interesting mixed bag, too, to take enough of it to get a really potent effect like you would if somebody had a back spasm or something like that.

02:00:21.000 You're looking at the potential of GI bleeding.

02:00:23.000 You have a really potent blood thinning effect.

02:00:26.000 So, I mean, aspirin's a little bit dodgy in that regard.

02:00:30.000 If you have that really acute deal that you're...

02:00:33.000 You're trying to manage.

02:00:34.000 But it is a possibly interesting side note.

02:00:37.000 Aspirin, like a baby aspirin a day, there's some studies that have suggested that women taking that baby aspirin a day, it could reduce breast cancer potentiality by like 70% because of the anti-angiogenic effects of the aspirin.

02:00:52.000 Now, I've read some things about the ketogenic diet and cancer, and that is very fascinating to me, about having these high fat, low complex carbohydrates, low simple carbohydrate diets can have a great benefit on reducing the fuel that cancer needs to stay alive.

02:01:10.000 I would say it's at least two-fold.

02:01:12.000 It's probably multifactorial there.

02:01:15.000 So on the one hand, certain types of cancer tend to preferentially run on glucose.

02:01:19.000 And so if you can limit the glucose, they don't really do well with fats or proteins as a fuel source.

02:01:27.000 So you can limit that.

02:01:28.000 Not all cancers fall into this category, though.

02:01:30.000 Some cancers are super metabolically flexible and they can use just about anything as a fuel source.

02:01:36.000 So there's a benefit for potentially breast, colon, prostate, glioblastoma, a couple of other endothelial-derived cancers that just directly that reduction in glucose level may be really beneficial.

02:01:51.000 There's another layer to it, though, that that low glucose environment and that shift towards ketosis tends to set up this kind of stress response.

02:02:00.000 So we actually have a little bit of oxidative stress occurring in the mitochondria I think?

02:02:27.000 But that fasting state, while you're also in ketosis, it reduces your pool of this substance called glutathione, which is our normal antioxidant defense network.

02:02:37.000 So interestingly, and maybe counterintuitively, they're trying to reduce your antioxidant pool.

02:02:53.000 So it's a, it's an interesting thing because a lot of, uh...

02:02:58.000 People in the kind of alternative cancer treatment scene, you know, they'll start dosing people on super high antioxidants with the thought that some of the etiology of cancer may be driven by free radicals, by oxidative damage.

02:03:10.000 And there may be some truth to that, but it's kind of like the horse is out of the barn at this point.

02:03:16.000 They're kind of tackling it in the wrong way.

02:03:19.000 When they're using high dose vitamin C, they're using it intravenously, and even though vitamin C is touted as an antioxidant, it can be a pro-oxidant at high concentrations.

02:03:30.000 So it may be a situation where you get the glutathione pool depleted, you hit these people with high dose vitamin C, and then they maybe do hyperbaric oxygen.

02:03:41.000 Where they go into a pressurized canister and they do pure O2, and that increases the oxidative stress, and that may be another adjunctive treatment to this.

02:03:51.000 But that's all of these different mechanisms that are kind of an outgrowth of the ketogenic diet going on in the background.

02:03:58.000 Wow.

02:03:59.000 Do you mess around with cryotherapy at all?

02:04:02.000 Not a ton.

02:04:03.000 I mean, I live on a little three-acre farm in Reno, and so it's cold frequently, and I have like a tub of water, and every once in a while when I stack up, I'll go out there and sit in it, but it's rough, man.

02:04:15.000 So it's just cold water.

02:04:16.000 It's not like you don't throw ice in there or anything.

02:04:18.000 Well, I mean, there's usually, for much of the year, there's a little layer of ice on the top of it, and so I've got to like chisel that out.

02:04:24.000 And then you climb in?

02:04:24.000 And then I climb in.

02:04:25.000 Do you measure the temperature?

02:04:27.000 No, I mean, it's somewhere slightly above freezing because, you know, it's got an inch or two of ice on the top of it.

02:04:34.000 But after you had Rhonda Patrick on here, I kind of opted more for the hot sauna kind of deal because I'm like, dude, that's a lot more fun.

02:04:42.000 That's way easier, and it seems really positive, too.

02:04:44.000 Way easier, yeah.

02:04:44.000 And I've been doing that after jiu-jitsu, and on the days when I can pull that off, My recovery is amazing.

02:04:50.000 It's almost like I pressed a reset button that day.

02:04:53.000 And although I got the benefit of jujitsu, I didn't have any of the downside.

02:04:57.000 I mean, it is crazy.

02:04:59.000 And I didn't experience that when I would do cryo-immersions after exercise.

02:05:04.000 Like, I felt better kind of, you know, in the first maybe hour or two after a hard workout.

02:05:09.000 Doing the cold water immersions.

02:05:12.000 But then a day or two later, like I was still sore and joint creaky and all that stuff.

02:05:17.000 Whereas with the sauna, you get...

02:05:20.000 And it's not an infrared sauna.

02:05:22.000 It's just like this hot as balls sauna, 140 degrees plus.

02:05:25.000 And I would sit in there as long as I could, 15, 20 minutes.

02:05:28.000 And man, when I finally break and I want out, it's like if there was an old person in front of me getting out of there, I would push them down. 1.00

02:05:36.000 I mean, it's panic getting out of there.

02:05:39.000 Yeah.

02:05:39.000 Now, is there a differentiation in your body between a steam shower and a sauna?

02:05:46.000 Like when you get into one of those hot steam showers and it's 135 degrees and you're...

02:05:51.000 That's a good...

02:05:52.000 Because it's heat response, right?

02:05:54.000 It's heat response.

02:05:54.000 That's really what's going on.

02:05:55.000 It's heat shock proteins.

02:05:56.000 Yeah.

02:05:58.000 Rhonda Patrick would know that one.

02:06:00.000 I do not know.

02:06:01.000 It seems like, for me, that air...

02:06:05.000 Yeah.

02:06:23.000 Would you need water that's as hot as the air to get the same type of temperature elevation in your body?

02:06:29.000 Or is just the skin being exposed to air temperature that's like an oven?

02:06:35.000 Is there something kind of cool with that?

02:06:37.000 I don't know.

02:06:38.000 That's a good question.

02:06:39.000 I'll have to forward that one to Rhonda.

02:06:41.000 Yeah.

02:06:41.000 I'll make a note of that.

02:06:42.000 Yeah.

02:06:43.000 What about other forms of recovery post-workout?

02:06:47.000 Have you found anything to be beneficial? 0.97

02:06:49.000 Are you messing around at all with those hard balls, like those wad balls? 0.98

02:06:54.000 I do some stuff like that. 0.63

02:06:56.000 So I follow this Gymnastics Bodies programming.

02:06:58.000 Oh, yeah.

02:06:59.000 I wanted to ask you about that.

02:06:59.000 Yeah.

02:07:00.000 And it's really good.

02:07:01.000 And they have...

02:07:03.000 So they have the strength work as part of this whole thing, pressing and pulling and all kinds of trunk work and everything, but each strength movement has a mobility movement paired with it.

02:07:12.000 So it's really interesting because as you get stronger doing this stuff, there's a tendency to get tighter.

02:07:18.000 So they just kind of bake the mobility movement into the cake with that.

02:07:22.000 But then they also have a three-day-a-week stretching sequence.

02:07:25.000 One's the front splits, one's the side splits, and then the other one is thoracic mobility for like a backbend.

02:07:31.000 And so I just kind of...

02:07:33.000 Punch the time clock on that.

02:07:34.000 Like each day I have some strength and mobility work that I do with that three days a week.

02:07:38.000 I do the dedicated stretching sequence.

02:07:41.000 I tend to do it with my daughters.

02:07:43.000 They're like three and five. 0.99

02:07:44.000 And so we just get in the floor and, you know, it's just a shit show in there with them also. 0.99

02:07:49.000 But it's a ton of fun. 0.98

02:07:51.000 And I'll hit that like three days a week.

02:07:53.000 And that's been really good.

02:07:55.000 A meditation app, like doing something like Brainwave, like the binaural beats.

02:08:00.000 I'm so wound tight and kind of type A that if I can just like sit down, go outside, look at the trees, do five minutes on that thing, do some kind of cyclic breathing, that's amazing for me.

02:08:11.000 Like that is a really, really good system reset for me.

02:08:14.000 Have you done any isolation tank work?

02:08:16.000 I have done some isolation.

02:08:17.000 You tried to get me to go out to Torrance last time when I was here.

02:08:21.000 I couldn't make it happen.

02:08:22.000 But you've done that since?

02:08:23.000 I have done that, yeah.

02:08:24.000 So tell me what you've been doing and how often.

02:08:27.000 I don't do it often.

02:08:28.000 It's usually when I'm traveling.

02:08:30.000 There is a place in Reno now.

02:08:31.000 It's just kind of getting into Reno.

02:08:33.000 It's taking off all over the country now.

02:08:35.000 It is.

02:08:35.000 It's amazing.

02:08:36.000 I had a guy approach me with an idea for a pretty legit business model around this.

02:08:41.000 And we were kind of looking at some people putting some money into it.

02:08:44.000 And then I heard that Massage Envy was going to open up the float tanks. 1.00

02:08:50.000 And they're everywhere.

02:08:51.000 There's a Massage Envy on every corner.

02:08:53.000 So you backed out of it?

02:08:54.000 Yeah, I backed out of that.

02:08:55.000 Because you didn't think that it would be profitable that way?

02:08:58.000 I thought it would be really easy to get outmaneuvered by a multi-offering kind of location.

02:09:04.000 Right.

02:09:05.000 That makes sense.

02:09:06.000 Yeah.

02:09:06.000 Massage and float all in one location.

02:09:08.000 Yeah.

02:09:08.000 And if they sell weed, too.

02:09:10.000 There you go.

02:09:11.000 Because float tanks plus weed is the greatest thing in the world for relaxation.

02:09:16.000 Right.

02:09:16.000 Yeah.

02:09:17.000 Yeah.

02:09:17.000 And Reno now, Nevada, is now on board with that.

02:09:21.000 Thank God, Nevada.

02:09:22.000 For the longest time, Nevada was one of the strictest places in the world.

02:09:25.000 If you got caught with a joint, you went to jail for something like seven years.

02:09:29.000 It was really crazy.

02:09:30.000 It's an interesting environment, because you have brothels around there, you have the gambling, but then there was this pretty draconian approach to really minor drug offenses, that they should be offenses at all. 0.93

02:09:44.000 Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.

02:09:46.000 Now, have you messed around at all with CBD oil or CBDs, which is non-psychoactive but has tremendous beneficial properties for anti-inflammation?

02:09:54.000 I have not, and it's one of those things that's like on the list to do.

02:09:58.000 You need to get on that.

02:09:59.000 I would think that when I was asking you about anti-inflammation things, CBD apparently has profound effects.

02:10:07.000 What's interesting about CBD is that everything that you would think is good about a paleo, ketogenic diet, sleeping well, exercising right, CBD does it effectively.

02:10:20.000 Now, it doesn't work the same in every single person, and you need to kind of play around with that.

02:10:24.000 So there's some caveats with it.

02:10:26.000 But when you just look at the pharmacology, you look at the research on it, and you look at all this other cool stuff that's been done by dietary interventions elsewhere and lifestyle interventions, then the CBD oil hits all of those pieces.

02:10:42.000 Yeah.

02:10:43.000 It's kind of amazing that that plant was illegal for so long.

02:10:45.000 It still is in a lot of places and still is federally.

02:10:48.000 There's so many benefits to it.

02:10:50.000 Non-psychoactive benefits, folks.

02:10:52.000 It doesn't have anything to do with your mind. 1.00

02:10:54.000 Well, you just want to find an excuse to get high, fucking loser. 1.00

02:10:57.000 It really doesn't even get you high. 1.00

02:10:59.000 CBDs don't do a damn thing.

02:11:01.000 It does apparently alleviate anxiety in some folks.

02:11:04.000 Right.

02:11:05.000 But I wonder how much of that anxiety is dependent or caused by inflammation.

02:11:11.000 They just had some great studies that were looking at alterations in gut microbiome and inflammatory status and depression and anxiety.

02:11:21.000 And it was basically if they shifted things such that the gut microbiome looked healthier, the depression and anxiety basically disappeared.

02:11:27.000 And then, you know, it could shift the other way.

02:11:29.000 And it's interesting, again, where if you add something...

02:11:32.000 So not everybody's going to change their diet.

02:11:34.000 And I advocate for that and push and shove, but the reality is our world is sent up and incentivized to not do that.

02:11:43.000 The big junk food manufacturers, they study how to make this stuff addictive.

02:11:48.000 What's the Lay's potato chip line?

02:11:50.000 Bet you can't eat just one.

02:11:51.000 I'll take that thing to the bank all day long.

02:11:54.000 So you can ridicule people. 0.99

02:11:57.000 Fat, shame, do all this stuff.

02:11:58.000 But there's a reality that our modern world is set up to work exactly against our genetics.

02:12:04.000 Yeah.

02:12:05.000 So what do we do then?

02:12:06.000 Well, you could have something like CBD oil where you put it in a little bite of chocolate and the person has it one or two times a day or whatever the dosing regimen is.

02:12:14.000 And maybe it puts their ulcerative colitis into remission.

02:12:17.000 Maybe their depression is gone. 0.98

02:12:18.000 And then maybe if we get them moving in a good direction, they don't feel like shit. 0.97

02:12:23.000 Maybe we can say, okay, let's now get some diet changes in there. 0.97

02:12:26.000 Let's get you going to bed earlier.

02:12:27.000 If you are going to stay up and work, put on some blue blockers so it doesn't mess with your sleep patterns as much.

02:12:32.000 But it's a really accessible, inexpensive, no-risk proposition that could add some really huge benefits for people.

02:12:41.000 Yeah, I think what you said, too, that this system is sort of set up to get people to eat these crappy foods and make them incredibly available and very difficult to pass up.

02:12:51.000 And once you start eating them, you consume them on a daily basis, your body starts craving them, you get addicted to them.

02:12:57.000 I was at the supermarket the other day, and I was under the influence, and I was always wandering through the aisles.

02:13:02.000 It was one of those weird moments where I went, has this always been like this?

02:13:06.000 I was just looking at these cans of food.

02:13:09.000 Everything's canned.

02:13:10.000 And I was thinking, this is all food, but it can last forever.

02:13:14.000 And food's not supposed to last forever.

02:13:16.000 The whole idea is you're supposed to grow it.

02:13:17.000 You take it out of the ground, it's alive.

02:13:19.000 You eat it, and then you're healthy.

02:13:20.000 And then I was looking at this food that was just filled with preservatives and canned.

02:13:27.000 These packages and plastic bags of it.

02:13:29.000 And I was like, it's so strange that this is the prevalent food because it's so easy to store.

02:13:35.000 It's so easy to ship.

02:13:36.000 It's so easy to have for sale.

02:13:38.000 You put a barcode on the package and you're good to go.

02:13:40.000 But this is not really...

02:13:43.000 I mean, you can eat it.

02:13:44.000 It's food, kinda.

02:13:46.000 But it's not really food.

02:13:47.000 The real food is on the edges.

02:13:50.000 The real food is where the vegetables are, where the meats are, where the eggs are.

02:13:54.000 That stuff in the middle in those aisles where you just see these bright colored cans, it was so weird.

02:14:00.000 It was like a little kid's toy store.

02:14:02.000 Right.

02:14:02.000 Because I was high.

02:14:03.000 So I was wandering through the aisle and I'm looking at all these different colors.

02:14:07.000 This is so weird.

02:14:08.000 It's like trying to draw me in with smiley faces on the cans and on the plastic bags.

02:14:14.000 Right.

02:14:16.000 Unless you're going to a really good natural food store, you're probably inundated with that stuff. 1.00

02:14:23.000 If you go to the regular Vons and just walk down the aisle, man, you're going to get hit with so much of this shit. 0.99

02:14:30.000 Right, and it's interesting because... 0.99

02:14:34.000 The folks that make these foods, they study neurophysiology, they study evolutionary biology, they study how to make things addictive.

02:14:42.000 So it's kind of funny on the one hand where the gatekeepers, the medical establishment, a lot of the media, if you talk about this ancestral health template or what have you, there's still a bunch of pissing match and contention around that.

02:14:55.000 Whereas the people who are making these foods addictive, they fully get it, but they're using it in such a way that they're like, okay, here's our predilection to eat more and move less.

02:15:04.000 Here's how we're going to make that happen.

02:15:05.000 And we have these really interesting flavor combinations and different experiences.

02:15:10.000 Do you want to run that video?

02:15:13.000 So here's a really interesting example of this.

02:15:17.000 Where, you know, you could get bored of even a really tasty food, but then you can figure out a way to bypass this whole process.

02:15:26.000 I cautiously eat a few fries.

02:15:31.000 The strategy works.

02:15:33.000 For now.

02:15:34.000 And I resume my epic ice cream battle.

02:15:38.000 Okay, so what's going on there is Andrew Zimmerman, or no, Adam Rickman, Man vs.

02:15:44.000 Food, he does these eating challenges.

02:15:46.000 And he's in this thing called the Kitchen Sink Challenge.

02:15:50.000 It's an eight-pound ice cream sundae.

02:15:52.000 And I think anybody would say that...

02:15:55.000 An ice cream sundae is pretty tasty, you know, and it's hyper palatable.

02:15:59.000 Like, it would make you want to eat it.

02:16:00.000 But what happens to him is he gets completely bogged down in this process and can't go on until he orders a plate of extra salty, extra crunchy french fries.

02:16:10.000 So he's actually gagging on the ice cream.

02:16:13.000 Can't go on.

02:16:14.000 He's not going to win this thing.

02:16:16.000 And the way that he gets out of this situation is by eating more food.

02:16:21.000 He would not have finished the sundae were it not for eating the french fries.

02:16:26.000 And so you have this situation where woven into our genetics is this process called palate fatigue, where even if we have a really tasty food in front of us, we will get bored of it and then we'll want something else.

02:16:39.000 And if you have that other thing, that something else immediately available, and it's different enough from the thing that you just got bored with, You can eat more in total, and it's just so interesting.

02:16:50.000 He would have failed eating this ice cream sundae were it just the sundae.

02:16:55.000 But not only did he eat the sundae, he ate probably about 1,500 calories of extra salty, extra crunchy french fries.

02:17:01.000 How did he know?

02:17:02.000 Did someone explain that to them?

02:17:04.000 So if you go to professional eating websites, like people who go do these things where they, like, eat hot dogs and, you know, whatever.

02:17:11.000 Competitive eater, bro.

02:17:12.000 Yeah, competitive eater.

02:17:13.000 There are pairings.

02:17:14.000 So it's like, okay, so with hot dogs, you need something like gummy bears because the hot dogs are salty and meaty and umami.

02:17:21.000 So you need something kind of sweet and fruity and light.

02:17:24.000 And so there are all these pairings that you do.

02:17:27.000 And so with ice cream, because it's cold, creamy, sweet...

02:17:32.000 The perfect complement to it is this salty, crunchy umami that you get out of the french fries.

02:17:38.000 That's fascinating.

02:17:40.000 You know, I've always found that if I'm eating something and it's really good, like a steak or something, and I'm stuffed...

02:17:48.000 Even if I don't want any more of the steak, if I have fries and I taste those salty fries, I'll start eating more fries.

02:17:54.000 But I know I'm full. 1.00

02:17:55.000 Why am I stuffing my fat face with these stupid fries? 1.00

02:17:58.000 It's that novelty. 1.00

02:17:59.000 And from an evolutionary biology perspective, it's great wiring.

02:18:03.000 It's great engineering because we didn't have guaranteed food all the time.

02:18:07.000 You know, like you had to eat when you could get it, and then, you know, you might go a long period of time without having that food.

02:18:13.000 But now we're in a situation where you have infinite variety.

02:18:16.000 There's 50,000 different food-like items in an average supermarket.

02:18:20.000 It's 10,000 or 11,000 new food-type items that are released each year.

02:18:24.000 They're engineered to be hyperpalatable, to bypass the neuroregulation of appetite.

02:18:28.000 And it's super easy to just go fill up your pantry with a wide assortment of these things.

02:18:33.000 So then you can do what he ended up doing here.

02:18:35.000 You can eat one meal.

02:18:37.000 You're like, man, a little sweet thing would be really good.

02:18:40.000 So you have that sweet thing.

02:18:41.000 And then, gosh, a little salty crunchy would be nice.

02:18:44.000 And so you have the salty crunchy.

02:18:46.000 And you can just keep eating through this whole process.

02:18:48.000 And it really makes...

02:18:50.000 Most of the standard dietetics recommendation of eat less, move more, everything in moderation, there's no moderation in that environment.

02:18:59.000 It doesn't exist. 0.75

02:19:01.000 It's a hookers in cocaine experience. 1.00

02:19:04.000 These things spin the dopamine centers in the brain.

02:19:07.000 They are addictive.

02:19:10.000 And if we are surprised by that process at all or feel bad about it, it's kind of crazy.

02:19:17.000 Like, it is not your fault if you find yourself entrapped in this world of hyperpalatable foods.

02:19:23.000 And I don't suggest that people just roll over and expose their belly to the world and let the world have its way with you.

02:19:30.000 But understand why it's so difficult.

02:19:32.000 Like, you should not feel guilt.

02:19:34.000 There shouldn't be any drama.

02:19:36.000 There should be no morality around it.

02:19:37.000 Like, if we just understand this is your basic biological wiring.

02:19:41.000 And if you understand that, and it's not your fault, but let's do something, then we can at least decouple ourselves from the emotionality and the drama and the guilt that we've had around this, and we can start making some changes.

02:19:52.000 But so many times, the reason why I've heard from people that they peel out of some sort of a new way of eating or lifestyle is Is it they're motoring along, they seem to be doing well, and then they're like, they're just gone.

02:20:06.000 And then you talk to them and they're like, oh, it was just hard.

02:20:08.000 It's like, yeah, it is hard.

02:20:09.000 But it wasn't just that it was hard. 0.99

02:20:11.000 They usually start getting some sort of internal dialogue where, well, I suck. 0.99

02:20:15.000 I must be weak. 0.99

02:20:17.000 I can't do it.

02:20:18.000 It's easier for that guy than it is for me.

02:20:20.000 So they bail on it.

02:20:21.000 And when I started putting this kind of...

02:20:24.000 Spin of this evolutionary biology and this neuroregulation of appetite into working with people, particularly people who had had difficulties with eating over the long haul and maybe like some, you know, weird relationships with food or what have you.

02:20:38.000 There was like this light that went on.

02:20:39.000 They're like, okay, so it's not my fault.

02:20:41.000 I'm like, no, man, it's not your fault.

02:20:42.000 We still need to do something.

02:20:43.000 And it's not necessarily going to be easy, but we can do this.

02:20:47.000 And if you aren't beating yourself up about the fact that this thing is a difficult process, then we're going to be able to get a lot further down the road.

02:20:54.000 Are there any foods that when you do go off the rails, like say if you have a cheat day and you have a, oh my god, I'm going to eat a whole pizza and a bowl of spaghetti and some fucking ice cream, is there any foods that can counterbalance the damaging effects or the addictive properties? 0.99

02:21:11.000 Because the worst thing you want to do is have a cheat day and go, oh fuck it, I'm just going to be a slob. 0.99

02:21:15.000 Right. 1.00

02:21:16.000 I do enjoy a cheat day, by the way.

02:21:18.000 You know, it's um...

02:21:20.000 Don't you?

02:21:22.000 You know, so instead of calling it a cheat day, I usually just say, kick your heels up, do whatever you want to do.

02:21:29.000 I've seen a little problem when people set it up and they're like, okay, Saturdays are my cheat day.

02:21:33.000 And you start gearing up towards Saturday.

02:21:35.000 It's like a heroin user who, they get the box out.

02:21:38.000 They flip it open and they're getting all their gear set up.

02:21:41.000 And that anticipatory process for most of these people is better than actually having the thing.

02:21:47.000 And that anticipatory process is getting the dopamine going in the brain and it just gets you all wound up into it.

02:21:54.000 So...

02:21:55.000 Ideally, you know, let's say people eat three meals a day, seven days a week.

02:21:59.000 It's 21 meals.

02:22:00.000 Let's just say 19 of those meals are pretty on point and two of them are kind of kick your heels up to whatever and do it whenever you want to do it.

02:22:07.000 The caveat to that is, are there things that are going to flip you out and you're not going to come back from it, you know?

02:22:16.000 Are there?

02:22:17.000 It depends.

02:22:18.000 It's really an individual thing.

02:22:20.000 So it could be a heroin food out there.

02:22:22.000 Well, so my heroin food is sea salt and vinegar potato chips.

02:22:28.000 Oh, I love those.

02:22:29.000 Yeah.

02:22:30.000 I always felt like they're kind of healthy, though.

02:22:31.000 There's vinegar, there's potatoes, there's salt.

02:22:34.000 What's bad about them?

02:22:36.000 Well, when you eat like a five-pound bag of them, which I can do in the blink of an eye.

02:22:40.000 How big is a five-pound bag of potato chips? 0.98

02:22:42.000 They're pretty goddamn light. 0.95

02:22:43.000 Possibly facetious, but... 0.98

02:22:47.000 That would be a big size bag.

02:22:48.000 Okay, let's say a 16 ounce bag of potato chips.

02:22:51.000 Even a 16 ounce bag? 0.99

02:22:52.000 What kind of a slob are you? 1.00

02:22:54.000 That's crazy. 1.00

02:22:55.000 I'm that type of slob. 0.79

02:22:57.000 You know, whereas my wife, she'll eat a little bit of potato chips, but she's more of a sweets person. 1.00

02:23:05.000 Whereas I'll have a little bit of dark chocolate, but literally a good brick of dark chocolate will sit in the cabinet for a month.

02:23:11.000 And I'll chip away at it a block here, a block there.

02:23:14.000 But if we have potato chips in the house, I will eat all of them.

02:23:17.000 I'm a dark chocolate and peanut butter dude.

02:23:19.000 Okay.

02:23:20.000 I dip the dark chocolate in the peanut butter.

02:23:22.000 Because you know, you got your chocolate in my peanut butter.

02:23:24.000 Remember those commercials?

02:23:25.000 And it tastes delicious.

02:23:26.000 Guess what? 0.97

02:23:27.000 Reese's Peanut Butter Cups can't fuck with an actual candy bar and actual peanut butter. 0.99

02:23:32.000 That's way better. 0.99

02:23:33.000 Right. 0.99

02:23:34.000 They fucked up with that commercial. 0.88

02:23:35.000 But it's still a really good idea, though. 0.99

02:23:36.000 They shouldn't have done it, and that's why they stopped doing that commercial, because people said, fuck Reese's, I'm just going to buy a chocolate bar and a big-ass tub of peanut butter and have a party. 0.99

02:23:45.000 Right, right. 0.99

02:23:46.000 It's way better.

02:23:47.000 It's way better.

02:23:48.000 But, you know, and that's interesting, too, like, thinking about the palatability thing.

02:23:53.000 How much chocolate can you eat by itself?

02:23:56.000 Right.

02:23:56.000 How much peanut butter can you eat by itself?

02:23:58.000 But together.

02:23:59.000 Together, you can eat more. 1.00

02:24:00.000 Fuck them up. 1.00

02:24:01.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:24:02.000 Like Ghirardelli's chocolate, like one of those big-ass, thick chocolate bars.

02:24:06.000 Oh.

02:24:07.000 Right.

02:24:07.000 And it's, you know, for me, I'm not trying to moralize it or say this is right or that's wrong, but just being aware that, like, stacking those flavor combinations, like, in general, if you can make your meals enjoyable but not over the top to the To the point that you're overdoing it.

02:24:25.000 And it's just different for everybody.

02:24:27.000 That sounds like you're saying enjoy it, but don't enjoy it too much.

02:24:30.000 That's pretty much it. 1.00

02:24:31.000 God damn it! 0.99

02:24:32.000 But what about someone who wants to enjoy it? 0.98

02:24:34.000 What about someone who wants to have that delicious taste of the sea salt and vinegar and the potato chips?

02:24:42.000 What I recommend is generally you have that out of the house and you don't have it hanging out in your pantry.

02:24:49.000 You gotta go to the woods.

02:24:50.000 Remember when we used to find porn when we were kids?

02:24:52.000 You find porn in the woods?

02:24:53.000 You gotta bring potato chips in the woods. 1.00

02:24:54.000 Eat them in a dangerous environment so you're constantly looking over your shoulder for wolves and shit. 0.99

02:24:59.000 Right, right. 1.00

02:25:00.000 That's a good strategy.

02:25:01.000 I was thinking more just kind of like go to the mini mart and eat it in your car.

02:25:04.000 Oh, God.

02:25:05.000 Then you feel like a real junkie.

02:25:06.000 Like you're in a bad neighborhood shooting up in a parking lot.

02:25:09.000 Oh.

02:25:10.000 Yeah.

02:25:11.000 So for you, it's just that.

02:25:12.000 That seems like a good, healthy heroin food, though.

02:25:15.000 As far as like heroin foods, I mean, it's just a potato or root vegetable.

02:25:19.000 Yeah.

02:25:19.000 But I mean, you can really...

02:25:21.000 I track my blood sugar on it.

02:25:24.000 When you eat a bag of, you know, like the sea salt and vinegar potato chips, my blood sugar was like diabetic levels.

02:25:30.000 Really?

02:25:30.000 Yeah, it's bad.

02:25:31.000 Oh, wow.

02:25:31.000 So you have weird genes.

02:25:32.000 I would like to track it.

02:25:34.000 I can get you squared away with a CGM if you want to do that, a continuous blood glucose monitor.

02:25:39.000 Okay.

02:25:40.000 You put it on and it...

02:25:41.000 How's it doing?

02:25:41.000 It's doing it through your skin?

02:25:43.000 It's a tiny hair-sized probe that goes through the skin.

02:25:47.000 And then it samples the blood, the interstitial fluid once a minute for the duration that you have this thing on.

02:25:53.000 Usually wear it two or three weeks and yeah. 0.65

02:25:56.000 I was using one of those ketone monitors where you have to cut yourself, but it doesn't make me bleed, because I have too many calluses in my hand, so I'd stick it in the fingers, and my fingertip skin is too thick, so I'd have to go to the side of my hand, and it's fucking gross to jab myself in the side of my fingers.

02:26:14.000 I got annoyed by it.

02:26:16.000 This is pretty mellow.

02:26:17.000 I was even able to roll with it.

02:26:18.000 I just took some rock tape and put over it.

02:26:21.000 Oh, wow.

02:26:21.000 It's that small?

02:26:22.000 Yeah, it's like a 50 cent piece kind of deal.

02:26:26.000 It's low profile and pretty flat.

02:26:28.000 So you rolled with it on your body.

02:26:30.000 What if someone put you in like a bicep crusher on that arm? 0.94

02:26:33.000 That would have sucked. 0.98

02:26:34.000 That would have sucked.

02:26:35.000 So what did you do?

02:26:36.000 You tap out before it gets to that?

02:26:38.000 I mean, that one did not come up during that.

02:26:41.000 Where do you put it?

02:26:42.000 Usually right there.

02:26:43.000 It's right where I'd get you.

02:26:45.000 Yeah.

02:26:45.000 Look for that spotlight.

02:26:47.000 I know he's got that thing on. 1.00

02:26:48.000 I'm gonna fucking attack that thing. 1.00

02:26:50.000 That's so funny. 0.99

02:26:51.000 For me, man, it's linguine with clams.

02:26:54.000 That's my heroin food.

02:26:56.000 I love linguine with clams.

02:26:58.000 Is there any benefit to having gluten-free linguine versus regular linguine?

02:27:03.000 Definitely if you're reactive to gluten, then yeah.

02:27:06.000 It seems like my body processes it a little easier.

02:27:09.000 Right.

02:27:10.000 But it doesn't seem as satisfying either.

02:27:14.000 And it's been prepped pretty much the same way?

02:27:17.000 It's a little less substantial.

02:27:21.000 There's something about real linguine from a good Italian restaurant that has that al dente bite to it.

02:27:27.000 It's very hard to get that with gluten-free pasta.

02:27:31.000 I mean, there's a textural element to it.

02:27:33.000 There's clearly a flavor element to it.

02:27:36.000 Gluten's just really interesting, like the type of protein that it is.

02:27:39.000 This is why it makes pasta and pastries and everything so unique.

02:27:43.000 Like, we don't make pastries out of corn because it sucks as a medium like that.

02:27:48.000 It's not bad for tortillas.

02:27:50.000 It's not bad for tortillas, but you're not going to make like...

02:27:52.000 A sandwich out of it, yeah.

02:27:54.000 So, I mean, you've got those flavor elements, and then for some people, they do get a little bit of an opiate response off of wheat. 0.99

02:28:00.000 And you were saying that for you, you have a tremendous intolerance to wheat, so you cannot fuck with that.

02:28:06.000 But for the average person that doesn't have this tremendous intolerance, is there a benefit to eating sprouted bread over regular bread? 0.98

02:28:13.000 I would say generally, yes.

02:28:16.000 A nutrient-based?

02:28:17.000 Not necessarily nutrient, but potentially this inflammatory process.

02:28:21.000 Because of the enzymes.

02:28:23.000 The enzymes break down the gliadin.

02:28:25.000 In part, it's just partially digested, so it's easier to digest and absorb.

02:28:32.000 To the degree that there's some problems with like gliadin, wheat germ, gluten, and those proteins get broken down.

02:28:38.000 So I would say that there's a lower likelihood of those foods being pro-inflammatory.

02:28:43.000 So if somebody's like, dude, I want a sandwich, then doing the Ezekiel bread and doing it on that, to me, would be a pretty good wing compared to doing like Wonder Bread.

02:28:51.000 Now, is there any nutritional properties or benefits to eating that bread?

02:28:55.000 Is there anything like you could say, like, I'm eating something good?

02:28:58.000 The fact that it's a whole grain and it hasn't been super denuded and processed, you're going to have more B vitamins, you could have more minerals.

02:29:06.000 So in general, like if we were to weigh out, you know, say 100 grams of this, 100 grams of that, there's going to be more vitamins, minerals, antioxidants in the Ezekiel bread than in the white bread.

02:29:17.000 Even though the white bread gets enriched, With iron and some B vitamins, I would say that the Ezekiel bread is still probably a win. 0.99

02:29:23.000 I never buy that enriched shit. 1.00

02:29:25.000 Right, right. 1.00

02:29:26.000 Enriched flour.

02:29:26.000 Why are you enriching it?

02:29:27.000 What are you doing?

02:29:28.000 Because if you eat it without that, then you get super, super sick.

02:29:33.000 That's crazy.

02:29:34.000 Is that why they enrich it?

02:29:35.000 Yeah, because there were nutrient deficiency diseases like, you know, 1920s, 1930s, as we really started industrializing the food system.

02:29:44.000 And, you know, there's a good argument for changing wheat flour to white flour when you remove that protein and fatty element.

02:29:53.000 That's in the whole wheat flour, it goes rancid much faster.

02:29:57.000 So white flour is much more shelf-stable.

02:30:01.000 It lasts a lot longer, and also it has a different flavor profile and everything.

02:30:04.000 It's a little more mild.

02:30:05.000 But there's a good argument again, but, you know, it's like that shelf-stability thing.

02:30:09.000 This is part of the hallmark of something that's maybe not a great option, other than chicharrones.

02:30:14.000 Chicharrones could last a million years, and they're still amazing, but... 0.94

02:30:18.000 There's an exception to everything, but there was economic and pallet incentives for why you would want to make this white flour, but also people started getting more nutrient deficiencies because the amount of B vitamins and whatnot that usually come in that whole grain were gone.

02:30:36.000 That makes sense.

02:30:37.000 The Ezekiel bread is notoriously poor as far as shelf life.

02:30:42.000 It gets moldy.

02:30:44.000 Almost immediately.

02:30:45.000 You have to keep it in the fridge and all that.

02:30:47.000 Yeah, that's one of the few breads that I always keep in the fridge.

02:30:51.000 So it's not necessarily good for you, though.

02:30:53.000 It's better for you than, say, a processed wheat bread, but it's not really good for you.

02:31:00.000 I'm going to take that as a no.

02:31:02.000 No, I don't know.

02:31:03.000 I mean, that's a really good question.

02:31:05.000 I've never really thought about it like that.

02:31:06.000 You know, like, is a blueberry good for you?

02:31:09.000 Yeah.

02:31:09.000 Is a piece of, like, steak good for you?

02:31:11.000 Yeah.

02:31:12.000 I don't know.

02:31:12.000 Like, again, so if we did a nutrient density kind of story, and we looked at that Ezekiel Bragg compared to...

02:31:22.000 Good types of fruit, vegetables, squash.

02:31:25.000 I think that the Ezekiel bread would look pretty skinny.

02:31:28.000 Like if you had 100 calories of this versus 100 calories of these.

02:31:32.000 But again, we looked at the vitamins, minerals, antioxidants that both of them had.

02:31:37.000 I don't think the Ezekiel bread would be a real rock star, but I bet it would be better than white rice.

02:31:43.000 It would probably be as good or on par with something like lentils or something like that, again, as far as vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, all that stuff.

02:31:51.000 So that's weird to me because I would think that lentils would be vitamin rich.

02:31:55.000 Not huge, but they're not terrible either.

02:31:58.000 I mean, it's just all this kind of relative thing.

02:32:01.000 And, you know, Rhonda Patrick is really good about this stuff.

02:32:04.000 She's really geeked out on what are the most nutrient-dense foods out there and trying to really make an emphasis of eating those.

02:32:11.000 And so, like, sprouts tend to be at the top of the list.

02:32:14.000 And then, interestingly, things like organ meats are super high up on the list, and it starts kind of stratifying out.

02:32:21.000 Herbs and spices tend to be off the Richter high in nutrient density, but we tend to not eat a ton of them.

02:32:28.000 But, you know, like ginger and basil and garlic and all those things are really, really nutrient-dense.

02:32:32.000 And they also seem to have medicinal qualities and antimicrobial qualities.

02:32:36.000 So there's some interesting stuff there.

02:32:39.000 But, you know, at the end of the day, You know, you could.

02:32:43.000 People do try to do it.

02:32:44.000 It's like every meal is going to be blueberries and, you know, wild-caught deepwater fish and, you know, a mountain of greens.

02:32:53.000 And God love you for doing that, I guess.

02:32:55.000 But, you know, every meal does not have to be that way.

02:32:59.000 To be pretty damn healthy and, you know, all that.

02:33:01.000 So that's where the Ezekiel bread, I think it's probably not like a terrible, by no means is it a terrible option in the story.

02:33:08.000 So it's not a terrible option, but it's not necessarily the most nutrient-dense thing you could eat.

02:33:12.000 Right, right.

02:33:12.000 But you could do way worse.

02:33:14.000 Right, right, right.

02:33:16.000 Yeah.

02:33:16.000 Now, getting back to what I asked you earlier, is there a food that you would recommend for a guy who did eat that one pound bag of potato chips?

02:33:24.000 Is there anything, or is fasting maybe the best option?

02:33:27.000 Yes.

02:33:28.000 That's the best option.

02:33:29.000 Yeah, I mean, something like that, or just some period of less intake, and so...

02:33:35.000 You know, but then that gets, like, I hear people screaming, like, you know, disordered eating now.

02:33:40.000 You know, it's like, oh, it's food, you know, eating disorder.

02:33:44.000 How is fasting considered an eating disorder?

02:33:47.000 It's not eating.

02:33:49.000 Yeah.

02:33:49.000 An eating disorder seems to me to be, like, maybe bulimia.

02:33:52.000 So many people start associating with, like, anorexia.

02:33:56.000 Yeah.

02:33:56.000 And potentially the bulimia deal.

02:33:58.000 But anorexic people don't fast.

02:34:00.000 Yeah.

02:34:01.000 That's what's bizarre.

02:34:02.000 They just don't eat.

02:34:03.000 Right, right.

02:34:05.000 Well, it's interesting, again, like the only thing...

02:34:09.000 So you could eat like a cockroach. 0.98

02:34:11.000 Like you could walk into a work environment or, you know, like post your photos on Instagram about eating, having a big gulp and donuts and all this other fucked up stuff. 0.99

02:34:20.000 And most dieticians won't really bat an eye at that. 0.77

02:34:23.000 They're like, yeah, you should eat better, but they're not going to say anything.

02:34:26.000 But if you post some stuff about a low-carb, paleo kind of looking deal, then you're a disordered eater.

02:34:31.000 Or if you eat gluten-free, then they call it disordered eating.

02:34:34.000 Intermittent fasting is being called disordered eating.

02:34:37.000 But who is being called it by?

02:34:39.000 Generally, like the dietetics, healthcare, you know, kind of mainstream.

02:34:43.000 Like, I get assailed by these people all the time.

02:34:46.000 And the intermittent fasting thing is really fascinating because...

02:34:50.000 Again, just a very brief historical step back.

02:34:54.000 It's like, have humans always had three meals a day?

02:34:57.000 And most people don't even eat just three meals a day.

02:34:59.000 They just eat all day long, you know?

02:35:02.000 And there's some clear problems with that from an inflammation standpoint.

02:35:07.000 They've done some studies where they had people eat a caloric-restricted diet, which should be anti-inflammatory, but the one group of calorie-restricted folks eat consistently throughout the day, Yeah.

02:35:22.000 Yeah.

02:35:26.000 Yeah.

02:35:37.000 It's interesting on the one hand, just being really aggressively researched in the kind of cutting edge communities like Rhonda Patrick, Walter Longo, Dom talks about this stuff a lot.

02:35:49.000 But then when you get into kind of this mainstream dietetics, Story.

02:35:54.000 They're just freaked out by this stuff.

02:35:55.000 Like they really can't wrap their heads around it.

02:35:57.000 Those same people probably aren't even freaked out about those lap bands.

02:36:01.000 Those disgusting bands that they put around people's stomachs.

02:36:05.000 They call them lap bands, right? 0.94

02:36:07.000 Tummy bands?

02:36:07.000 That's one of them, yeah.

02:36:09.000 I saw some guy arguing for a vegan diet and then I found out that he was a surgeon that performs stomach-shrinking operations. 1.00

02:36:17.000 I'm like, what the fuck, man? 0.99

02:36:19.000 Are you trying to get people healthy or are you just trying to make money? 0.99

02:36:22.000 With some folks it's the only option. 1.00

02:36:26.000 Bullshit. 0.99

02:36:27.000 It's never the only option. 1.00

02:36:28.000 Does your mouth work?

02:36:29.000 Do your hands work?

02:36:30.000 Can you put food in your mouth?

02:36:32.000 Then it's not the only option.

02:36:34.000 And disempowering people or saying that it's the only option for some folks to get them healthy, that is insanity.

02:36:41.000 Right.

02:36:41.000 Coddling them to the point of you're willing to diminish their overall physical structure of their digestive system.

02:36:50.000 I mean, that's what you're doing, right?

02:36:52.000 Right.

02:36:52.000 I've read some horrendous things about the consequences of these stomach minimization activities.

02:36:59.000 Right.

02:37:00.000 Surgeries, rather.

02:37:01.000 Right.

02:37:02.000 Really scary stuff.

02:37:03.000 You have to completely limit what you eat from now on.

02:37:06.000 Your stomach is about the size of my fist now.

02:37:08.000 It's this little tiny thing, and you get full quicker.

02:37:10.000 So that's the psychological mechanism behind it.

02:37:13.000 You get full quicker.

02:37:13.000 Yeah.

02:37:14.000 So the interesting thing is, almost immediately when people undergo these procedures, if they were a type 2 diabetic, they come out of it and they're no longer a type 2 diabetic.

02:37:26.000 Almost immediately.

02:37:28.000 It's really, really interesting.

02:37:30.000 So there's that upside.

02:37:31.000 But then also the long-term, you know, two years, three years, four years, almost inevitably they get themselves back into the situation they were in.

02:37:39.000 And part of what's interesting is because they have such a small stomach, they can't hardly eat anything.

02:37:45.000 So there's a tendency towards eating more refined food because that's, you know, they just can't eat that much.

02:37:53.000 So it's...

02:37:55.000 I know a guy broke his out.

02:37:57.000 Oh, really?

02:37:57.000 Yeah.

02:37:58.000 Oh, wow.

02:37:58.000 Yeah.

02:37:59.000 He got his stomach shrunk, got an operation. 0.95

02:38:01.000 He's a big, fat guy.

02:38:02.000 And got his stomach cut and then broke it out and had to go in and get a second surgery. 0.82

02:38:07.000 Yeah.

02:38:08.000 It's where I'm very glad I didn't go into medicine specifically.

02:38:11.000 Like, that's just such a quagmire.

02:38:13.000 I would probably shoot myself being in it.

02:38:16.000 I just get infuriated when someone says that that's the only option for some people.

02:38:19.000 That is not true.

02:38:21.000 That is just absolutely not true.

02:38:22.000 There are always options.

02:38:23.000 If you have willpower, if you have a mind, if you have a support system, if you have people that can coach you, if you're willing to listen, if you're willing to understand and believe the consequences of your actions, you can change your diet and your behavior.

02:38:34.000 You can.

02:38:35.000 And it doesn't matter if you're 600 pounds or 60 pounds overweight or 6 pounds overweight.

02:38:40.000 You can make changes.

02:38:41.000 It's interesting because insurance will reimburse for these, like, lap band and gastric bypass surgeries, and they're $30,000, $40,000 to pump people through it, but it's really difficult to get them to reimburse, like, a gym membership, a health coach, you know,

02:38:56.000 that type of stuff, which...

02:38:59.000 Well, it's got to be some collusion between the healthcare providers and the medical industry.

02:39:03.000 I mean, that's the only thing that makes sense.

02:39:05.000 Or that people demand it so much that they can't deny it from people.

02:39:09.000 Right.

02:39:10.000 It's just very, very frustrating for me when you tell people that they don't have any other options and that this is the best option to cut you open and cut your stomach and stitch it back to a smaller version of what it is.

02:39:24.000 Well, and did you see that thing where they now have a stomach pump?

02:39:28.000 Oh, God.

02:39:29.000 They basically put a tube in there.

02:39:32.000 You can eat the food and then pump the food out of the stomach.

02:39:35.000 And this thing is awaiting FDA approval.

02:39:39.000 So they used to, in Roman times, this is where, like, you know, the bread and circus just keeping everybody entertained and the whole thing collapses.

02:39:47.000 But they used to have the vomitoriums where people would eat.

02:39:50.000 Do you know that that's not true?

02:39:51.000 Really?

02:39:52.000 Yeah.

02:39:52.000 Not only is it not true, vomitorium doesn't mean that.

02:39:55.000 Really?

02:39:55.000 What vomitorium means, it's the entrance and exit to an arena.

02:40:00.000 Really?

02:40:00.000 Yes.

02:40:01.000 This is something that I've gone into in great detail, and I went to the Colosseum in Rome, and they were explaining the vomitorium, and it's just a misnomer.

02:40:09.000 Joe, you're crushing my whole- Yeah, you shouldn't be saying that.

02:40:11.000 But- But this is crushing my whole, like, Rome fell, we're gonna fall, these guys used to throw up, and now we're doing it too.

02:40:18.000 They may have done that.

02:40:19.000 They may have thrown up, but it wasn't at a vomitorium.

02:40:22.000 Okay.

02:40:22.000 But a vomitorium is, here, pull it up, Jamie, so you can see what a vomitorium is.

02:40:25.000 What a vomitorium is, is the actual structure of an arena, like where the people come out and go through this area.

02:40:33.000 And it has nothing to do with the word vomit. 0.87

02:40:36.000 Okay, how am I going to tell my post-apocalyptic story about Rome got fucked, we're heading to the same deal? 0.99

02:40:42.000 That's a vomitorium. 0.99

02:40:42.000 That's what a vomitorium is. 0.99

02:40:44.000 Okay, but how do I tell the story? 1.00

02:40:47.000 Well, you fucked up. 1.00

02:40:47.000 You should have Googled it, man. 1.00

02:40:49.000 Dude, I guess so.

02:40:49.000 You should have done what we did.

02:40:50.000 You fucked up. 1.00

02:40:50.000 You tried to pass away some bullshit. 1.00

02:40:54.000 Man, I'm so chagrined. 0.99

02:40:56.000 But it's important because I've had a lot of people tell me that, and educated people like yourself have said that.

02:41:00.000 It's just not true.

02:41:01.000 Okay.

02:41:02.000 Go back to that.

02:41:04.000 Aspire assist, yeah.

02:41:06.000 These vomitoriums exist in every arena. 0.99

02:41:10.000 That's what they are.

02:41:11.000 The stairways come down, and then that opening at the bottom of the stairway, that is a vomitorium.

02:41:15.000 What is the origin of the word?

02:41:17.000 No, they threw up.

02:41:18.000 They threw up.

02:41:19.000 A few of them did really rich people.

02:41:20.000 They wanted to eat and keep eating.

02:41:21.000 They threw up.

02:41:22.000 But that's not what it is.

02:41:23.000 Like, go larger, please, so I can see that.

02:41:26.000 A series of entrances or exit passages in ancient Roman amphitheater or theater, a place where which, according to popular misconception, the ancient Romans were supposed to have vomited during feasts to make room for more food.

02:41:37.000 Not true.

02:41:38.000 There you go. 1.00

02:41:39.000 Damn. 1.00

02:41:39.000 Sorry, dude. 1.00

02:41:40.000 Oh, man.

02:41:41.000 It's important that you know about it.

02:41:42.000 No, I am properly chagrined.

02:41:44.000 Thank you.

02:41:44.000 Yeah, it's just one of those things that people repeat, and then they never bother looking it up.

02:41:49.000 With that pump, though, go back to that fucking disgusting stomach pump. 1.00

02:41:53.000 This is so nasty. 1.00

02:41:55.000 So this is, hi, I'm fat, and my brain is stupid, and I just love to eat, so I can eat now, and yay, eat normal, healthy meals! 0.98

02:42:04.000 Hey! 0.99

02:42:07.000 The girl in the middle is triggered.

02:42:08.000 I can tell. 1.00

02:42:09.000 And then you stick this pump through a fucking hole in your bellybutt and it sucks out the food. 1.00

02:42:14.000 Because nothing could go wrong with that. 1.00

02:42:15.000 Look at her.

02:42:16.000 Honey, go outside. 1.00

02:42:17.000 Go running.

02:42:18.000 Stop.

02:42:19.000 Look at me.

02:42:20.000 I put the food in my mouth and it sends a signal to my brain.

02:42:24.000 It's a simple procedure.

02:42:26.000 Low risk.

02:42:27.000 Completely reversible.

02:42:29.000 Takes just 15 minutes. 1.00

02:42:31.000 How about fuck you? 1.00

02:42:33.000 Twilight sedation. 1.00

02:42:35.000 Back in home in just a couple of hours.

02:42:37.000 Look at that cartoon.

02:42:38.000 The cartoon people.

02:42:40.000 That girl needs it? 1.00

02:42:41.000 That girl's hot as fuck. 1.00

02:42:43.000 She's skinny. 1.00

02:42:44.000 Even cartoon hot. 1.00

02:42:45.000 This is ridiculous. 0.99

02:42:46.000 You don't need it, honey. 0.99

02:42:47.000 Stop.

02:42:48.000 Well, I think this is her afterwards.

02:42:49.000 Oh, that's her.

02:42:51.000 Yeah, this is her afterwards.

02:42:51.000 Oh, there's all these people that have shrunk down from having...

02:42:54.000 Wait, go back to that.

02:42:55.000 Go back to that.

02:42:57.000 Here's the thing, folks.

02:42:58.000 All you people that have benefited from it, you could do another thing.

02:43:02.000 Right.

02:43:02.000 You could just change your diet.

02:43:03.000 And one of the most powerful benefits of the ketogenic diet is appetite suppression.

02:43:09.000 And that appetite suppression is fantastic.

02:43:11.000 It's amazing.

02:43:12.000 Even for a person like me who's never really struggled with their weight, I find that going without food is not only is it easy, but it's really inconsequential.

02:43:22.000 Right.

02:43:22.000 It's not an issue at all.

02:43:23.000 I can go without food five, six hours, you know?

02:43:25.000 Right.

02:43:25.000 It doesn't bother me at all.

02:43:27.000 Yeah, it's super liberating.

02:43:29.000 And, you know, as powerful as it is, it can also be where people get themselves in trouble.

02:43:36.000 A lot of the problems that are ascribed to just low-carb, I think, is an outgrowth of it being so satiating that you under-eat.

02:43:44.000 So, if you're hypocaloric for too often...

02:43:49.000 Too long, then that can be a big problem.

02:43:51.000 I don't have issues with that.

02:43:52.000 I eat like a pig, but I've definitely lost weight by changing my diet to that ketogenic diet.

02:43:59.000 And I've met so many people on the road, so many people while I'm out and about that come up to me and they say, thank you.

02:44:05.000 I've lost 60 pounds.

02:44:06.000 Thank you.

02:44:06.000 I've lost 80 pounds.

02:44:07.000 Thank you.

02:44:08.000 I've changed my diet.

02:44:09.000 I drink kale shakes in the morning and now my body is just a completely different thing and it just feels different.

02:44:14.000 It works better.

02:44:16.000 It's so important, man.

02:44:17.000 It's just so important to take care of this meat vehicle that you're driving around. 0.99

02:44:21.000 And so many people are falling prey to that supermarket line of cans with shiny colors on them and labels.

02:44:29.000 And you get roped into this idea that just because you put it in your mouth, it's food.

02:44:33.000 And your body is just sludge.

02:44:35.000 It's just slugged down with all this nonsense.

02:44:40.000 And ketogenic diet is interesting.

02:44:42.000 Some people that seem to never really be able to get anything else to work, it's possible they may have some damage to the hypothalamus, the energy regulating centers of the brain.

02:44:52.000 It's unclear what's going on, but we know that a ketogenic diet has some really great benefits for neurological conditions in general, like epilepsy, there's some Parkinson's, Alzheimer's research that's going on.

02:45:04.000 Thyroid conditions. 0.96

02:45:06.000 But it's possible that these ketones may be altering the physiology of the hypothalamus in such a way that we get normal energy regulation of metabolism and appetite, more importantly.

02:45:18.000 Cognitive benefits as well.

02:45:20.000 It's another thing where people don't have that lazy, foggy feeling after meals.

02:45:24.000 Right.

02:45:24.000 And that foggy feeling is pretty substantial and really important if you're someone who has to think for a living.

02:45:30.000 Right.

02:45:30.000 Which hopefully is most people.

02:45:32.000 Most people.

02:45:33.000 Hopefully.

02:45:33.000 Think in some way.

02:45:34.000 But, you know, your brain running on ketones, that's one of the things that people are always scared about.

02:45:41.000 Like, oh man, your brain runs on sugar.

02:45:43.000 You need glucose to run your brain.

02:45:44.000 That's not really true.

02:45:45.000 Right.

02:45:46.000 Right.

02:45:47.000 And again, like, 70-80% of the brain tends to shift to just ketone body metabolism when you're fully keto adapted.

02:45:55.000 There's still some of the brain that's going to run on glucose.

02:45:57.000 There's some red blood cells that are going to run on glucose.

02:46:01.000 But the interesting thing, though, is that if you just look at blood glucose over time, there's a pretty cool...

02:46:09.000 A guy went on a medically supervised fast for 382 days.

02:46:15.000 And you look at his blood glucose levels and his beta-hydroxybutyrate levels and whatnot.

02:46:19.000 How does someone do that?

02:46:20.000 He just drank water.

02:46:21.000 He drank water, had some electrolytes.

02:46:23.000 For 300 days?

02:46:24.000 382 days.

02:46:25.000 How does he stay alive?

02:46:26.000 I don't even understand that.

02:46:27.000 His body fat.

02:46:27.000 What?

02:46:28.000 How fat was this guy?

02:46:29.000 Fat.

02:46:30.000 Yeah. 0.63

02:46:31.000 It should have a picture of the guy when you track him down.

02:46:34.000 How much did he lose?

02:46:34.000 He was over 400 pounds.

02:46:35.000 He went from over 400, I think close to 500 pounds down to like 180 pounds.

02:46:39.000 13 pounds.

02:46:40.000 I think he finished off like 180 pounds.

02:46:43.000 This guy didn't eat for 382 days, didn't poop for almost two months.

02:46:47.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:46:48.000 Hold on.

02:46:50.000 He fasted for over a year and somehow lived.

02:46:53.000 How far can you go without risking your health?

02:46:56.000 Whoa, is there before and after photos of this gentleman?

02:46:59.000 This is...

02:47:00.000 It was...

02:47:02.000 If you go to this and just go to the images, then you'll probably see like...

02:47:09.000 Go to images and then we'll have something with the beta hydroxy.

02:47:16.000 I'm not seeing it.

02:47:17.000 Huh.

02:47:18.000 That's incredible.

02:47:19.000 Imagine if you knew this guy and you didn't see him for a year.

02:47:21.000 Could you throw ketosis in there also?

02:47:27.000 It's amazing.

02:47:28.000 Oh, there it is.

02:47:29.000 The fifth one over.

02:47:32.000 Nope, that one right there.

02:47:34.000 So blood glucose, free fatty acids, and ketone body levels during his fast.

02:47:40.000 So his blood glucose, that second from the top line, the triangles, it dropped and then was just rock solid.

02:47:47.000 Beta-hydroxybutyrate, which is the main ketone body that gets used as a fuel substrate.

02:47:55.000 That goes up to a pretty high level, higher than what you would get under a nutritional ketosis typically, because this is a starvation deal.

02:48:02.000 Free fatty acids elevate, acetoacetate elevates, acetoacetate kind of interconverts with the beta-hydroxybutyrate.

02:48:08.000 But what's interesting to your point about the mental state If we were graphing someone's blood glucose over time for this period of 40 days and they were eating normal mixed meals, that thing would be seesawing all over the place.

02:48:23.000 I don't understand how he has any glucose.

02:48:25.000 Because of gluconeogenesis in the liver.

02:48:28.000 So he's even eating absolutely no carbohydrate at all.

02:48:34.000 There's a glycerol backbone of fat that can get converted into glucose.

02:48:39.000 And then also certain amino acids, which are gluconeogenic, can get converted into glucose.

02:48:44.000 And so the body will use those because we still need, like just making DNA, the pentose phosphate pathway, we need some glucose to be able to do that.

02:48:53.000 So like cellular replication and whatnot, but you can do that with effectively no carbs.

02:48:58.000 So without dietary glucose, the body converts fat to glucose.

02:49:02.000 Some of the backbone of fat, the glycerol part, and then also proteins.

02:49:06.000 But with this guy, it's not even proteins unless his body's eating his meat.

02:49:10.000 Which they probably did to some degree, but this is part of the benefit of ketosis is that it really reduces the breakdown of lean body mass.

02:49:20.000 But if you think about it, like there are people who end up with these huge...

02:49:24.000 Mm-hmm.

02:49:26.000 Mm-hmm.

02:49:53.000 The body is turning over that protein base.

02:49:55.000 And that's really important.

02:49:57.000 That's this apoptotic process.

02:49:59.000 But you could potentially have a scenario where people who are losing a lot of weight, if they use these fasting protocols, aren't going to need that cosmetic surgery at the end to get rid of these sales of skin.

02:50:10.000 Is that possible?

02:50:11.000 Is that really possible?

02:50:12.000 Yeah.

02:50:12.000 But has anyone done it?

02:50:14.000 I mean, it's anecdotal at this point.

02:50:16.000 Well, that seems like someone should do it if they've done this.

02:50:19.000 Well, what happened to this gentleman?

02:50:21.000 Well, this guy looked totally normal.

02:50:22.000 That's the thing.

02:50:23.000 I mean, he was huge, and then he looked totally normal. 0.82

02:50:26.000 So he didn't have ridiculous loose fat, like, flying squirrel skin?

02:50:29.000 Right.

02:50:29.000 Whereas, like, a lot of the people that you saw in, like, The Biggest Loser, like, they had that stuff, and they were using a higher carb, moderate protein kind of calorie-restricted deal.

02:50:41.000 Sorry to interrupt, does your body have the ability to understand that the skin that's hanging loose is not necessary?

02:50:47.000 Yes.

02:50:47.000 Yeah, just kind of mechanoreceptors, this piezoelectric effect, the feedback of all that, yeah.

02:50:52.000 What about people that have lost all the weight in another fashion, and now they've gotten themselves into this really thin body with all this extra skin, could they go on a fasting protocol then, and would the body absorb that skin tissue first before it started eating up the muscle tissue?

02:51:08.000 I... Possibly, but the challenge with that is that because they've already decreased their fat mass, like are they now leading this into an unhealthy state?

02:51:18.000 So what if they decided, let me fatten up again?

02:51:21.000 Like maybe the move would be to fatten up again and get yourself obese again and then go on this...

02:51:28.000 I mean, you're laughing, but honestly, wouldn't that be the move?

02:51:31.000 To get yourself fat again and then going on a fasting...

02:51:35.000 Like, this guy's medically monitored fasting.

02:51:38.000 And then your body would absorb the fat again and the skin tissue.

02:51:44.000 Maybe.

02:51:44.000 It's interesting.

02:51:45.000 I would have never thought about doing that.

02:51:47.000 I would maybe think about like two or three days a week of fasting.

02:51:51.000 So some intermittent fasting.

02:51:52.000 And then you get into some normal eating.

02:51:54.000 And then even what you could do is you could go two or three days of fasting or a very low calorie intake.

02:52:02.000 And then at the end of that period, you could just be very low protein.

02:52:06.000 Yeah.

02:52:07.000 And then maybe four out of the five days, four out of seven days, you're low protein, and two or three of those days, you're super low calorie.

02:52:17.000 What if you tried that and it didn't work?

02:52:18.000 You still got that floppy skin. 1.00

02:52:20.000 Then it would suck. 0.97

02:52:21.000 You'd be suffering.

02:52:22.000 This guy's got it nailed.

02:52:23.000 This guy might have it nailed.

02:52:24.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

02:52:25.000 Fuck, you gotta get fat again, folks. 1.00

02:52:27.000 Don't get the surgery. 1.00

02:52:28.000 Just get fat again.

02:52:30.000 Don't say that to people, though.

02:52:31.000 It's hard to say because nobody wants to do that because it's so hard to lose that kind of weight once you lost that kind of weight.

02:52:37.000 But when people do get that operation, when they cut their skin, I mean, it's really dangerous, right?

02:52:42.000 It's super dangerous.

02:52:43.000 There's a high risk of infection, high bleeding.

02:52:46.000 Yeah, I mean, it's not...

02:52:48.000 It looks horrendous.

02:52:49.000 Yeah, it doesn't usually finish off that well.

02:52:51.000 You look like a guy who got attacked with a knife or something, you know?

02:52:53.000 He's covered in these massive swords.

02:52:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:52:56.000 Scars, scars, rather.

02:52:59.000 You have a book out.

02:53:00.000 Yeah.

02:53:01.000 What's the book?

02:53:02.000 Wired to Eat.

02:53:02.000 What's it about?

02:53:03.000 It's about the neuro regulation of appetite.

02:53:06.000 Oh, we've been talking about a bunch of it.

02:53:08.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:53:09.000 So I mean a bunch of the stuff like the ice cream deal, like I talk about that stuff in the book.

02:53:15.000 It's, you know, it's steeped in this evolutionary medicine perspective, but I'm really, if I'm effective with this, I'm really trying to decouple people or like unpack all the emotionality that they've got around food.

02:53:27.000 Like if they've found challenges around changing their diet and lifestyle, It shouldn't be a surprise, and it's not their fault.

02:53:34.000 But at the same time, I don't want them to just roll over and give up.

02:53:37.000 Like, we've got ways to move them through a process of discovering what works for them, what doesn't work for them, and we can motor forward.

02:53:45.000 But I would say, like, 50-60% of the people that end up failing in this process, it's kind of emotional baggage type stuff.

02:53:52.000 And also, there's this sense... 0.94

02:53:54.000 So when people are at jujitsu and they're like, man, this shit's really hard, it's like... 0.99

02:53:58.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:53:59.000 Of course.

02:53:59.000 If you want to keep doing it, then do it.

02:54:01.000 But it's hard.

02:54:02.000 It's always hard.

02:54:03.000 And similarly, doing diet and lifestyle changes frequently is pretty difficult.

02:54:08.000 And so if you can just understand that and understand that that's normal and you're not beating yourself up about that process, then we really stand a much better chance of turning that corner and making these effective longstanding changes.

02:54:23.000 Alright, so the book is out right now.

02:54:25.000 Right now.

02:54:25.000 Rob Wolf.

02:54:26.000 They can get it.

02:54:27.000 Amazon.

02:54:28.000 Anywhere books are sold.

02:54:29.000 Yep.

02:54:30.000 Alright, dude.

02:54:30.000 Well, thank you very much for being here, man.

02:54:31.000 Dude, thank you for having me.

02:54:32.000 Great to see you again.

02:54:33.000 Thank you.

02:54:34.000 Rob Wolf, ladies and gentlemen.

02:54:36.000 Alright, this show's over.

02:54:37.000 Go do something else.

02:54:38.000 Bye.

02:54:39.000 Love ya.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 23, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #935 - Robb Wolf

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