The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #937 - Justin Wren

00:00:01.000 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 Boom!

00:00:08.000 Justin Wren straight out of the jungle.

00:00:10.000 Lookie, you got coconut water?

00:00:11.000 You ready to party?

00:00:12.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:00:14.000 You got two of them, just in case.

00:00:15.000 Oh, I live off of that stuff.

00:00:17.000 So, first of all, congratulations on your Bellator fight, man.

00:00:20.000 You looked outstanding.

00:00:21.000 Thank you.

00:00:21.000 Thanks a lot.

00:00:22.000 It's really, like, clicking, man.

00:00:23.000 It's really coming together, huh?

00:00:24.000 Yeah, finally the muscle memory's back, and I'm at a new camp that's great for my style.

00:00:29.000 Training with Rafael Lovato Jr., maybe the best American grappler for BJJ. Most accomplished, maybe.

00:00:35.000 He's fantastic.

00:00:36.000 Oh, good.

00:00:37.000 So you're in Oklahoma?

00:00:38.000 Is that where he's at?

00:00:39.000 Yeah, Oklahoma.

00:00:39.000 Just moved there in December.

00:00:41.000 So you moved there to train?

00:00:42.000 Yeah, moved there to train.

00:00:43.000 Oh, wow, interesting.

00:00:44.000 Train alongside him, and that's also where Water 4 is headquartered out of, is Oklahoma City. 0.96

00:00:47.000 Oh, how fucking convenient. 0.95

00:00:49.000 Absolutely. 0.95

00:00:49.000 So now I have the best of both worlds, my two passions right there. 0.95

00:00:52.000 Oh, that's amazing.

00:00:54.000 He's really good, man.

00:00:56.000 Yeah.

00:00:56.000 Rafael Lovato has that pressure style, too, that Salo Hibero smashing style.

00:01:02.000 Very fun to watch that guy.

00:01:03.000 The only guy I've ever felt claustrophobic underneath.

00:01:06.000 Without a doubt, he's just...

00:01:08.000 I can't explain it.

00:01:10.000 He just cannot get away.

00:01:11.000 That smash pass, that pressure pass, he just melts into you and there's no escape.

00:01:15.000 It's like he's melting and he's like glue.

00:01:17.000 Yeah, Salo, Shanji, that whole family of that style of jiu-jitsu is so powerful, man.

00:01:23.000 Yeah, I've gotten to meet both of them now, training with Salo, and then Shanji was there in our corner, so it was pretty awesome for a Bellator fight.

00:01:31.000 I was kind of bummed out at Rafael Lovato's last fight because he stopped him with strikes. 0.97

00:01:37.000 I was like, God damn it. 0.97

00:01:39.000 Yeah, kicked him in the head, 13 seconds. 0.99

00:01:40.000 Yeah, it was crazy.

00:01:41.000 I mean, it's great to see him succeed and do well, but I wanted to see his jiu-jitsu.

00:01:45.000 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:01:46.000 I think people will, but he's... 0.56

00:01:48.000 Man, he's an animal.

00:01:49.000 Honestly, he's one of those guys that is so well-rounded, and you think he's just one-dimensional because of everything he's done in jiu-jitsu, but he grew up kickboxing.

00:01:57.000 Oh, did he really?

00:01:58.000 Yeah, his dad's been a lifelong martial artist, a senior.

00:02:01.000 He's an incredible guy, and he's been taking Rafael all around the world since he was a little boy, having him train mixed martial arts, not just jiu-jitsu his whole life.

00:02:10.000 And he's fighting Bellator as well, right?

00:02:12.000 Yeah, that was his first fight, so we fought back-to-back.

00:02:14.000 He fought right before me, I fought right after him.

00:02:16.000 Oh, that's nice, man.

00:02:17.000 Pelotor's making some moves, man.

00:02:19.000 They're doing Mitrion versus Fedor, and Lorenz Larkin just signed with them.

00:02:25.000 Rory McDonald signed with them.

00:02:27.000 That's a stable now.

00:02:29.000 They have a legit stable.

00:02:30.000 Especially their 170-pound division is super legit.

00:02:33.000 Oh, yeah.

00:02:34.000 Daily MVP. Lima.

00:02:35.000 Yeah, Lima.

00:02:36.000 Korshkov.

00:02:37.000 Yeah.

00:02:37.000 That's a serious division, man.

00:02:39.000 And now Fedor.

00:02:42.000 Very interesting.

00:02:43.000 What did you think about the Fedor-Mitrione thing, where they had to pull out, like, Mitrione had to pull out because of his kidney stone, and then they're going to schedule it again, apparently.

00:02:51.000 Yeah, that's Madison Square Gardens, so June 24th.

00:02:54.000 That's a pay-per-view, right?

00:02:54.000 Pay-per-view, first one for Bellator.

00:02:56.000 Pay-per-view's tough, man.

00:02:57.000 It's tough to get people to buy something they've been getting for free.

00:03:00.000 Right.

00:03:01.000 But I think this card, they're stacking it pretty heavily.

00:03:05.000 Chael Sonnen versus Vanderlei.

00:03:06.000 That's a good fight.

00:03:07.000 That's where Raphael has been going down into Curitiba.

00:03:11.000 Curitiba, yeah.

00:03:12.000 Brazil, yeah.

00:03:13.000 Down there and was sparring with Vanderlei before his fight.

00:03:16.000 Sparring with Vanderlei is a fight, apparently.

00:03:19.000 Apparently you're fighting.

00:03:19.000 Yes.

00:03:20.000 He sent me a meme of something like, let's train easy.

00:03:24.000 And Vanderlei saying like, yeah, train easy.

00:03:26.000 But it's that picture of him in Pride or something, or maybe training where he's jumping in the air and he's just coming down with a big hammer fist and going to land on you with his feet.

00:03:34.000 Yeah.

00:03:34.000 He's like, that's a light day.

00:03:36.000 He's kind of known for that, just being a barbarian 24-7. 0.98

00:03:39.000 Yeah.

00:03:40.000 But that's why he was so fun to watch.

00:03:41.000 Yeah.

00:03:41.000 And I think what you said and just asked about what did I think between Fedor and Matt Mitrione when they had to pull out.

00:03:47.000 Man, I flashback right away.

00:03:50.000 Do you remember whenever Stefan Struve had to pull out of his fight with Mitrione backstage?

00:03:56.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:03:57.000 He was like blacking out or something, right?

00:03:59.000 Yeah, I think he passed out a couple times and he was having that heart problem as well.

00:04:03.000 But Mitrione was back there all gloved up, already taped up, had his gloves on, was hitting mitts.

00:04:09.000 And then there were some of the behind-the-scenes cameras that caught a moment where I believe it was Dana coming back there telling them the fight was canceled and Mitrion just was, you know, cussing up a storm.

00:04:18.000 No way.

00:04:19.000 Not at all.

00:04:20.000 No.

00:04:20.000 But then all of a sudden you saw it shift to where all of a sudden he was worried about Stefan and he walked down there, went backstage or to his locker room, and man, he just hugged him and Stefan was sobbing.

00:04:30.000 And Matt Mitrion was just like, You know, hey, it's alright, bro.

00:04:33.000 I know if you could fight, you would have.

00:04:35.000 And all that other stuff.

00:04:36.000 So I guess he had passed at least one or two kidney stones the fight week.

00:04:40.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:04:40.000 Maybe a couple days before weigh-ins.

00:04:43.000 And then the day of the fight, they just started coming back out.

00:04:46.000 I think he had something like 15 or 20 total.

00:04:48.000 So, man, I know all the ladies out there, you're a lot tougher than us, given birth. 1.00

00:04:53.000 But I hear this is the equivalent, you know, for the men.

00:04:55.000 It's passing a kidney stone.

00:04:57.000 I doubt it.

00:04:58.000 That'd be more like passing a marble through your dickhole. 1.00

00:05:01.000 That's true. 0.99

00:05:02.000 Maybe even a golf ball.

00:05:04.000 It seems like it's not even close.

00:05:06.000 It probably hurts. 0.99

00:05:07.000 It definitely sucks. 0.61

00:05:08.000 Yeah, it does. 0.97

00:05:09.000 But that 15 or 20 of them, something like that, it had to be brutal instead of just one or two.

00:05:13.000 They are a side effect of weight cutting for a lot of people, right?

00:05:16.000 I know Aldo had one, and I think some other fighters have had them too, and they think it has to do, there's some sort of connection with massive dehydration, which I'm sure Matt doesn't have to worry about.

00:05:27.000 Fighting heavyweight, he doesn't have to cut the weight like that, so I wonder what caused his.

00:05:31.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:05:32.000 But yeah, exactly.

00:05:33.000 I mean, you're putting your kidneys through so much when you're cutting weight, especially those extreme weight cuts.

00:05:37.000 Yeah, I'm lucky I'm a heavyweight.

00:05:40.000 Very fortunate.

00:05:41.000 Yeah, dude. 1.00

00:05:41.000 Fuck all that, man. 1.00

00:05:43.000 Yeah, like, what do you walk around at? 1.00

00:05:44.000 Like, what's your...

00:05:45.000 When you're in shape?

00:05:46.000 Like, you're in shape right now.

00:05:47.000 Like, what do you weigh?

00:05:47.000 Yeah, I weigh 248. That's a good size, man, right?

00:05:50.000 245. Don't you think...

00:05:51.000 They think that that 240 number is, like, the right number for heavyweights.

00:05:55.000 They feel like... 0.99

00:05:56.000 I don't know who they are, but I'm just talking shit. 0.98

00:05:58.000 They think that the conventional wisdom is when you get into 260s and above 250, that there's a point of diminishing returns where you're carrying around so much mass, you can't really perform as well. 0.98

00:06:12.000 But a 240-pound guy is so big and so strong that you can handle a 265-pound guy, but you have more endurance, and it's just a better weight.

00:06:22.000 I totally agree with that.

00:06:23.000 I mean, when I was living at the Olympic Training Center and wrestling there, the weight class was 264.5 or 120 kilos.

00:06:29.000 And we always tried to stay above it and then cut to make weight.

00:06:33.000 Because wrestling, I mean, being the single sport of wrestling, you need that weight.

00:06:37.000 It's only a six-minute match.

00:06:39.000 And then the new Greco-Roman rules, I mean, you get three breaks in between a two-period round.

00:06:45.000 And so you're getting that weight, you need it to throw the guy around.

00:06:48.000 When it comes to MMA and you're adding in that, what is anaerobic, anaerobic strength and cardio and everything else, you need it all.

00:06:55.000 And so, yeah, my first two fights back, I was coming in heavier.

00:06:59.000 And man, to drop a little bit, I felt a lot better.

00:07:03.000 My conditioning was on point.

00:07:05.000 I wasn't rushing.

00:07:06.000 I'd put in the time, the effort and everything else and got my cardio good.

00:07:10.000 My diet really...

00:07:11.000 Rafael's got an awesome strength coach.

00:07:13.000 His name's Lucius Tyree.

00:07:15.000 Now he's my guy from Green Strength.

00:07:17.000 And man, he just got us on this warrior kind of lifestyle.

00:07:20.000 It's not about a program or a fight camp and you getting ready then.

00:07:24.000 It's about, hey, let's just live this in, day in and day out.

00:07:27.000 Eat the right food, real food.

00:07:29.000 Put real nutrition in your body.

00:07:31.000 Real strength, kind of like the Onnit stuff, you know, the kettlebells, everything else.

00:07:34.000 And I had never done that before.

00:07:36.000 So this was a real shift in my training, and it paid off.

00:07:40.000 So he works with you in nutrition as well?

00:07:41.000 Yeah.

00:07:42.000 What kind of changes has he made for that?

00:07:44.000 Man, for me, I think that it's about maturing, too.

00:07:48.000 I mean, the five years I took off, and before that, I was 19 fighting professionally until I was 23, 24. And I was young and dumb. 0.97

00:07:57.000 I was dealing with addictions and depression and other stuff. 0.93

00:07:59.000 And, man, I would...

00:08:01.000 Tighten everything up during fight camp.

00:08:03.000 But before fight camp, I'd eat whatever.

00:08:05.000 And this has just been having just tons of salads, eating meat, veggies, fruits, just fueling your body constantly.

00:08:15.000 And so that's just been something really good for me.

00:08:17.000 I have celiac, so I can't eat the breads, the grains.

00:08:20.000 Oh, you do?

00:08:21.000 Yeah, I can't eat wheat, barley, rye.

00:08:22.000 You're a huge guy to have celiacs.

00:08:23.000 That's interesting.

00:08:24.000 Did they find out when you were really young?

00:08:26.000 No.

00:08:27.000 I found out.

00:08:28.000 So I'd gone through the opiate addictions, and I had six years of that, that I had an ulcer in my stomach.

00:08:35.000 But I noticed that during that time, any time I would eat wheat bread with breakfast, that I would get nauseous.

00:08:43.000 That was during that time?

00:08:44.000 Yeah.

00:08:45.000 So did you have it before or did you get it because of the ulcer?

00:08:49.000 I think that probably triggered something, the opiate addiction and everything else.

00:08:53.000 Then when I went to Congo, it really got bad and I didn't know what it was.

00:08:57.000 And then whenever I got back, I mean, having the malaria three times, dengue fever, blackwater fever, all sorts of intestinal parasites and bacterias.

00:09:06.000 When I got back here, I was just wrecked.

00:09:08.000 And so my doctor did some tests on me.

00:09:10.000 I was like, man, you have...

00:09:11.000 You weren't just any more gluten intolerant.

00:09:14.000 Now you have full-blown celiac and you're at the top of the chart.

00:09:16.000 So you used to be gluten intolerant.

00:09:19.000 Intolerant, yeah.

00:09:19.000 And then it became celiac, top of the chart celiac.

00:09:22.000 Do you think anything has a connection to, for people who have never heard you before, you live in the Congo for long stretches of time, working with the pygmies and digging wells, and you've caught malaria there on two separate occasions, but you've got it three times because it reoccurred on you, right? 0.69

00:09:36.000 Right.

00:09:37.000 Do you think that that might have compromised your immune system and contributed to the celiac disease?

00:09:42.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:09:42.000 They say that my immune system was just shot.

00:09:45.000 And so that's been...

00:09:46.000 I mean, before that, the drug addictions, that took a toll on my body.

00:09:50.000 Then going to the Congo, having the malaria, having other things, it's wrecked my body.

00:09:55.000 And so now, over the last three years, and that's why I am so thankful for a guy like Raphael modeling how to live this lifestyle, this just...

00:10:02.000 Day in and day out, Lucia's there to guide us because I needed that.

00:10:06.000 I really needed to rebuild my health from the ground up and to stay consistent with that.

00:10:11.000 It's like when the fight's over, maybe indulge for like one meal, but then get right back on the grind.

00:10:17.000 And so it's been...

00:10:18.000 Yeah, really, really great for me to live it out and to really, I don't know, just felt like I'm finally healthy again.

00:10:23.000 That's awesome, man.

00:10:25.000 It's amazing you just come back after taking five years off and essentially not even working out at all.

00:10:29.000 And now, you know, I mean, you look good in the first fight, but man, your last fight, you just really look tuned up.

00:10:35.000 Yeah, thank you.

00:10:36.000 It was awesome.

00:10:36.000 I appreciate that.

00:10:37.000 Now, when you say that you have celiac, so they're adjusting your diet accordingly.

00:10:43.000 I'm really big into fat-based diets these days.

00:10:46.000 Are you doing something like that?

00:10:48.000 Are you on different kinds of carbohydrates?

00:10:51.000 How are they monitoring it?

00:10:53.000 I'm definitely getting a lot more coconut oils and the grass-fed butters and all that to have a high fat content with every single meal, breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

00:11:03.000 I'm still dropping weight.

00:11:05.000 This is kind of all new for me where it's like, man, I'm getting in a lot of fruits, veggies, carbs, and mostly fats.

00:11:12.000 Fats, then proteins, then fruits and vegetables, and then probably carbs.

00:11:16.000 I mean, I know carbs are in fruits and vegetables, but So do they plan your meals out for you?

00:11:21.000 Do you have like one of those?

00:11:22.000 Yeah, I have a meal prep place in OKC. Oh, that's nice.

00:11:24.000 It's called Provision Kitchen, and it's pretty awesome because they have their own farm.

00:11:29.000 Everything's organic, locally grown.

00:11:31.000 Oh, wow.

00:11:32.000 And so, yeah, I just go in there, and they're able to help me out, and Luke works with them.

00:11:36.000 Lucius helps me know what I need to tell them to eat, and so it's just...

00:11:40.000 For me, man, I mean, being a heavyweight, a lot of times we haven't had to take a diet too strict.

00:11:47.000 And other times I would during fight camp, but I would just do what I thought was right and what was fueling my body, what was feeling good.

00:11:54.000 For performance.

00:11:54.000 Yeah, for performance.

00:11:55.000 But now it's just like all around health and performance.

00:11:57.000 Like I need to perform like a machine, like a professional athlete.

00:12:00.000 I need to fuel my body like that.

00:12:02.000 And so having this team of people that are around...

00:12:05.000 I think that's why.

00:12:23.000 There's Raphael's team, which he has world-class guys all around him.

00:12:25.000 He's got the nutritionist and the right restaurants and places in place to where now I can just focus on training.

00:12:32.000 And then I get to, in the meantime, break time, I get to share the story of why I'm back to fighting.

00:12:37.000 That's amazing.

00:12:37.000 Now this meal prep place, do you give them like, hey, I would like my food to be 75% this, 25% that.

00:12:45.000 This is the carbohydrate quantity I'm looking for.

00:12:47.000 This is the amount of protein.

00:12:49.000 About calories?

00:12:50.000 Basically, and I don't know exactly.

00:12:53.000 I need to have a better input into it, but man, they've just really said, this is what he needs during fight camp, and then I was focused on training.

00:13:01.000 It was really good, though, because I'm getting a bunch of coconut oil and avocados and everything else all throughout the day to make sure I'm having the high-fat content.

00:13:11.000 And how many times do you eat in a day?

00:13:13.000 Three to five.

00:13:14.000 Three big meals if I'm not able, if I'm just swamped and busy.

00:13:18.000 But then if I have time to make sure I'm feeling my body, I'm eating five meals.

00:13:21.000 So are you working out twice a day?

00:13:23.000 Two to three times a day, five to six days a week.

00:13:26.000 Wow. 1.00

00:13:27.000 Damn, dude. 1.00

00:13:28.000 Back in the heat of things. 1.00

00:13:29.000 Yeah, man.

00:13:29.000 100%.

00:13:30.000 Raphael's a machine trying to keep up with him, but feeding off that energy.

00:13:33.000 It's been really great.

00:13:35.000 I've been around a lot of guys in the sport, and I didn't even expect to talk this much about them, but it's been really encouraging.

00:13:43.000 I've been around Kenny Mundy, Kendall Cross, Kale Sanderson, all these Olympic gold medalists.

00:13:46.000 And it's been great because they were my coaches pouring into me.

00:13:49.000 But here's a guy that's the best at his craft, that's world class, that's world champ.

00:13:54.000 He's completely obsessed with every aspect of MMA and being able to see that and feed off of it has been incredibly encouraging for me.

00:14:02.000 So him and I both were like, hey man, like the stars are aligning.

00:14:05.000 This is destiny.

00:14:06.000 You and me both.

00:14:07.000 We're gonna go get those Bellator straps, world champs.

00:14:09.000 Let's do that first and let's do that quick.

00:14:11.000 What does he weigh?

00:14:13.000 He walks around at probably 210, 215, maybe 220. And what's he fighting at?

00:14:18.000 He cuts all the way down to 185. So he's the biggest 185 I've ever trained with.

00:14:23.000 Jesus Christ.

00:14:23.000 And he feels like he's 400, man.

00:14:25.000 I mean, Brendan and I were just talking about this yesterday.

00:14:28.000 But being under Shane Carwin and worst case scenario where he's having you mounted, I mean, it just...

00:14:34.000 You hated life.

00:14:36.000 Yeah.

00:14:36.000 I'm sure.

00:14:38.000 But there's something so demoralizing, but then at the same time encouraging, because Rafael's doing that and making you feel claustrophobic, like a 400-pound gorilla's on top of you, or 600-pound, whatever.

00:14:54.000 But he's also coaching you, telling you how you can do that to somebody else.

00:14:57.000 And so at the end of it, he's showing you how to do exactly what he's doing.

00:15:01.000 He's a fantastic coach, and you don't always see that from the best athletes.

00:15:05.000 Right.

00:15:05.000 Sometimes they're incredibly talented and great at their craft, but explaining it, you're like, okay, now explain it to me again, or show me how to do it.

00:15:13.000 Like, here, I'm showing you, like, just watch, you know?

00:15:15.000 But he can tell you every little detail, every little inch.

00:15:18.000 Well, that probably has a lot to do with the Salo Hibero lineage, too, you know?

00:15:23.000 That's a very, very technical school, and they're really involved.

00:15:27.000 Salo's really involved in the history of all the different techniques and, you know, where they came from.

00:15:33.000 Now, why did he move to Oklahoma City?

00:15:35.000 Why is he down there?

00:15:37.000 Actually, that's where he's from.

00:15:38.000 So I think whenever he was like six, seven, eight years old, he moved from Chicago there.

00:15:42.000 I watched a documentary on Flow Grappling.

00:15:45.000 That's how I even got a hold of Rafael.

00:15:47.000 I knew I was moving to Oklahoma City.

00:15:49.000 I'm like, who's there to train with?

00:15:50.000 I'm moving there for Water 4 and Fight for the Forgotten.

00:15:53.000 And I saw that documentary, incredibly inspirational, shows the whole lineage of him training with Salu and Shanji and how he went to Brazil to train with them, live with them.

00:16:01.000 They came up to like Toledo, Ohio at first.

00:16:03.000 He went there and they were living in basically like this little apartment that was freezing inside in the Toledo winters.

00:16:10.000 And they're having to put their geese over the heater to try to warm them up after every training session to get back in there and do it again.

00:16:16.000 And that's some of their best training matches were in the living room on the mat that they would throw out there right in front of the couch.

00:16:22.000 And so it's just cool to see how these guys were, where they came from and what they've done now.

00:16:27.000 It's like truly, for me, inspiring because that's what I want to do now.

00:16:30.000 No, I mean, that's the best way to do it, right?

00:16:32.000 To just be with the elite of the elite in that one particular discipline, at least, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

00:16:38.000 And you can get so much out of that, especially coming from your background as a wrestler.

00:16:42.000 I was super impressed with your arm triangle too, man.

00:16:45.000 Thanks.

00:16:45.000 Clamped down on that head and arm choke.

00:16:46.000 That was nice.

00:16:47.000 Yeah, thanks a lot.

00:16:49.000 No, I think it's a great style because I'm coming in with a wrestling background.

00:16:53.000 I've won a couple national championships there.

00:16:55.000 And then to come in with Rafael, once I put a guy down, now I need to finish him.

00:16:59.000 Yeah.

00:16:59.000 And it surprised me.

00:17:01.000 Lovato's wrestling because he's actually got some good stuff that he does.

00:17:05.000 But now I'm going to be able to show him that.

00:17:06.000 He's showing me his world.

00:17:07.000 And then we're growing together.

00:17:08.000 That's amazing.

00:17:09.000 That's so good, dude.

00:17:10.000 That's so good.

00:17:11.000 It's so interesting, too, because there's very few real submission artists today in the heavyweight division.

00:17:16.000 It used to be Fedor, when he was in his prime, was a submission artist.

00:17:19.000 Of course, Noguera was the premier submission artist.

00:17:21.000 Frank Mir, one of the all-time greats, for sure, in terms of his accomplishments as a submission artist.

00:17:27.000 But there's not a whole lot of that today.

00:17:29.000 You see knockouts and stuff, especially in the UFC. You don't see a whole lot of submissions.

00:17:34.000 Right.

00:17:34.000 Except Verdum.

00:17:35.000 Verdum can still submit people and won the title off of Kane that way.

00:17:40.000 Yeah, so I'm excited because statistically, I think in my fights, if I've put it on the ground, I've already finished it.

00:17:46.000 But now having that guy with me, coaching me through...

00:17:50.000 I heard him in the fight.

00:17:51.000 During the fight, I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

00:17:53.000 And he's just telling me these little adjustments to make.

00:17:56.000 Was he right next to you while you were...

00:17:57.000 He was across the cage.

00:17:58.000 He's a good coach.

00:17:59.000 And I had the whole camp to sit there and listen to him while he was off to the side.

00:18:03.000 He's yelling at me.

00:18:03.000 So you just tuned his voice in?

00:18:05.000 Yeah.

00:18:05.000 Nice.

00:18:06.000 Trying to do that.

00:18:07.000 And we used to do that at Grudge Training Center in Colorado.

00:18:10.000 We would turn up the music.

00:18:12.000 We'd blast it during sparring.

00:18:14.000 And then we have our corner men off to the side and they're hollering and yelling.

00:18:18.000 That way we're able to start trying to pick their voices out with like a distraction with loud music going on, just like in the fight.

00:18:24.000 So that way, if there's a huge crowd all yelling out different stuff, you're able to tune into the voices you need to hear.

00:18:30.000 Whose idea was that?

00:18:31.000 Trevor's?

00:18:31.000 Yeah, Trevor's.

00:18:32.000 Powerful Trevor Whitman.

00:18:33.000 Yeah, he's a smart dude.

00:18:34.000 That's very smart.

00:18:34.000 Very smart.

00:18:35.000 Now, how are you balancing out your full-time training now that you're moving up in the rankings in Bellator and, you know, you're being more and more successful, but you're also doing this for a cause.

00:18:47.000 And for people who don't know, you are doing this for your pygmy family, these people that you've sort of become a part of their world, and you've lived there for many, many months at a time, and you go back and forth to help build water wells with Water4.

00:19:03.000 Your organization fight for the forgotten and How are you balancing that out with being a professional fighter and trying to compete and perform at your very best?

00:19:13.000 Yeah, that's been a learning process without a doubt but now it's trying to find ways to set the right boundaries and in a way to protect my training schedule and At first I was just saying yes to basically everything and that made it really tough for my first two fights back where I felt rushed I didn't feel like the muscle memory was clicking in between every training session or I'd be late to training sessions doing an interview or trying to talk to somebody or trying to tell people the story or I would have to leave early to go do it now it's like it's been really great to

00:19:44.000 move to Oklahoma City I have water for there to protect my training schedule and training comes first because if I can keep Going up in the ranks, if I can get a world championship under my belt or a few, you know, I'll have a bigger platform to stand on to tell, you know, have a bigger microphone, bigger platform to be able to continue to tell this story.

00:20:01.000 And so, yeah, we have a team of about 10, 12 people at Water 4. They've all rallied around it.

00:20:06.000 They're trying to take stuff off my plate and be able to...

00:20:10.000 Help fill in my schedule, but making sure I'm getting enough time to get in the training, get in the rest.

00:20:15.000 And, man, just eight, nine weeks of that before this last fight, it truly paid off.

00:20:21.000 It felt like there was a whole team around making sure that going into this fight, everything was exactly the way it should be.

00:20:28.000 And that's how I felt, too.

00:20:29.000 I mean, I have a little highlight clip of the fight, but, I mean, the crowd was just...

00:20:35.000 It was Overwhelming in an incredibly good way where it like felt I could feel the energy I could hear everybody there I'd grown up in Dallas Fort Worth water for and fight for the forgotten is based in Lovato's is out of Oklahoma City And everyone met up in the middle on the border at this big casino called Windstar and it was just awesome going in there and having everyone rally around I don't feel like me.

00:20:58.000 I mean me too But rally around fight for the forgotten what I'm fighting for.

00:21:02.000 Let's see that video Jamie Yeah, and then the post-fight interview, I mean, that's what I'm living for now.

00:21:08.000 That's what I'm fighting for, so I can talk.

00:21:10.000 And how supportive has Bellator been about all this?

00:21:12.000 Oh, man, incredibly supportive.

00:21:15.000 It's blown me away.

00:21:16.000 I mean, I get to talk about it and everything, so it's been awesome.

00:21:20.000 There's Raphael up at the top left, big Josh Copeland to the right, and yeah, I get to put Fight for the Forgotten all over my stuff.

00:21:28.000 Is that a new tattoo on your back?

00:21:30.000 No, I've had that.

00:21:31.000 I've had that, but...

00:21:34.000 Yeah, it's been really great.

00:21:35.000 You haven't added anything to it?

00:21:37.000 Yeah, well, I had the cross, and I did add the Vikings below it, but here I had gotten a lateral drop before, and then I was able to hit a belly to back.

00:21:46.000 Beautiful suplex.

00:21:48.000 Thanks.

00:21:48.000 Ooh, I like how you call it suple.

00:21:50.000 Yeah.

00:21:52.000 And there's the arm trying.

00:21:53.000 There's the tap.

00:21:54.000 Nice.

00:21:55.000 So, now, where do they have you in their rankings?

00:21:57.000 I mean, their heavyweight division is in the deepest in the world, right?

00:22:01.000 Who's their heavyweight champion?

00:22:03.000 Well, that was Vitaly Minnikov, but he's been kind of, you know, in a struggle.

00:22:09.000 Inactive?

00:22:09.000 Yeah, been inactive.

00:22:10.000 Here's the part that I really like.

00:22:12.000 I don't know if we can turn on the volume.

00:22:13.000 Sure.

00:22:15.000 Feet underneath you, remembering how it went.

00:22:17.000 It all seemed to come together tonight.

00:22:19.000 Is that how it felt?

00:22:20.000 Yeah, I mean, definitely.

00:22:22.000 I got a lot of room to improve, a lot of work to do.

00:22:25.000 But yes, it felt like the muscle memory was back.

00:22:28.000 I'm in a camp that is so great for my style.

00:22:31.000 With Rafael Lovato Jr. and the team.

00:22:33.000 Big Josh Copeland.

00:22:34.000 I'm just so blessed.

00:22:36.000 Encouraged.

00:22:36.000 Excited to be here.

00:22:37.000 The little dance I was doing in here.

00:22:39.000 Hopefully it didn't look cocky or arrogant.

00:22:41.000 That was my pygmy dance that we do out in the forest.

00:22:43.000 And I just love them to be able to come in here and fight for them.

00:22:46.000 Most people are lucky enough to have one tribe.

00:22:49.000 You have two.

00:22:50.000 Not only your family in Congo, apparently here, they were very much behind you.

00:22:54.000 How did it feel to win in front of them, man?

00:22:57.000 It's just so awesome.

00:22:58.000 Thank you guys so much for coming out here.

00:23:01.000 Everyone from Water 4, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Fort Worth, EcoSurvivor.

00:23:06.000 I'm just so lucky, so fortunate.

00:23:08.000 People have jumped behind this because I love to fight.

00:23:12.000 I love to be here and compete, but it's even better to fight for people And so to know that fighting in here, getting a choke out, I'm going to go to the Congo and knock out the world's water crisis for my big family.

00:23:24.000 Moving forward, you said you have a lot of room to grow, but with performances like that, people are thinking about you in a wide-open heavyweight division.

00:23:31.000 What's next for you?

00:23:32.000 Well, I'm coming for that belt.

00:23:33.000 It's gonna come.

00:23:34.000 It just might take a little bit of time to get there.

00:23:37.000 I'm still getting my feet under me.

00:23:38.000 I had five years, two months where I did zero.

00:23:41.000 Training.

00:23:42.000 And so I'm excited to get back in there.

00:23:44.000 Keep working my way up.

00:23:46.000 I gotta earn it.

00:23:47.000 But I have, I think, more of a reason, a purpose, a passion to be in here.

00:23:52.000 And so I'm just so thankful for everyone that's got behind us.

00:23:55.000 EcoSurvivor right here is donating 50% of their profits of their entire brand to come to the water wells in the Congo for water cooler.

00:24:04.000 Fight for the Forgotten.

00:24:04.000 Thank you guys for getting behind us.

00:24:07.000 Before you go, you always talk to your Pygmy family. 0.94

00:24:09.000 What do you have to say to them tonight?

00:24:22.000 Man, I just, I love him so much.

00:24:24.000 I was saying, I'm in here.

00:24:25.000 I'm in here because I love you.

00:24:27.000 That's what I'm in here.

00:24:28.000 I'm a goo, I'm a goo.

00:24:29.000 We are one.

00:24:31.000 We are not different.

00:24:32.000 And so, Siku Mingi, it's been many, many days.

00:24:37.000 I can't wait to come back and see you guys very, very soon and drill some more wells.

00:24:42.000 The Big Pygmy, Justin Redwood!

00:24:45.000 That's a crazy platform, man, to be able to do that on TV like that in front of, I mean, who knows how many millions of people watch these Bellator fans.

00:24:53.000 I think that came to 1.1 or 1.2.

00:24:55.000 Who was the headline?

00:24:57.000 That was Marlos Conan and Julia Budd for that inaugural featherweight, I believe, or world title. 0.73

00:25:05.000 Do you feel like Bellator is getting more respect now?

00:25:07.000 For a while, it was looked at as sort of an also-ran, but I think now with the lineups getting...

00:25:17.000 Stronger and stronger.

00:25:18.000 It seems like a the organization is growing in notoriety.

00:25:21.000 Yeah, I believe so.

00:25:23.000 And I mean, I think it's healthy.

00:25:25.000 It's very important.

00:25:26.000 I think it's good for everybody.

00:25:27.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:25:28.000 And great for the fighters. 0.86

00:25:30.000 My bosses might disagree at the UFC, but I really think I actually I don't think they would.

00:25:34.000 I think they'd probably agree.

00:25:36.000 I think it's important.

00:25:36.000 It's important to have competition.

00:25:37.000 It's good.

00:25:38.000 It's good for everybody.

00:25:39.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:40.000 And so, yeah, I think Bader just came over.

00:25:43.000 Phil Davis is the light heavyweight champion now?

00:25:47.000 Yep, absolutely.

00:25:47.000 So you don't really have a heavyweight champion?

00:25:49.000 Is that what's going on?

00:25:50.000 Yeah, they stripped Vitaly Minnikov of it because he's fighting over his contract, allowed him to fight in Fight Nights or EFN over in Russia.

00:25:57.000 I went over there, cornered Josh against Vitaly.

00:26:00.000 And...

00:26:01.000 So he just hasn't come back and he just is, I think he's making money in Russia and fighting there and they're kind of been in a standoff and he can come back and fight but he's been stripped of his belt and now I think they're, you know, Scott's a smart guy so is Rich.

00:26:16.000 They're putting something together for the heavyweights and yeah, the Fedor-Matt Mitrione fight, that's going to be exciting to watch.

00:26:22.000 That's not for a title though, right?

00:26:23.000 No, it's not for a title.

00:26:24.000 Is that a three-rounder?

00:26:26.000 Yes.

00:26:26.000 Three fives.

00:26:28.000 So when are they going to try to have a heavyweight title?

00:26:30.000 I think it's coming up pretty soon.

00:26:32.000 So I think probably in the next six months or, I mean, within that next three months.

00:26:36.000 Now, looking at yourself and your own development and growth, how far away do you feel like you are from that, from fighting for that?

00:26:42.000 Man, I... Want it now I want to take that now, but I think that realistically being smart strategic get another couple wins under my belt some good wins Where I get to go in there and really show to myself to Bellator one I need to earn it and two I need to get a couple more real impressive wins under my belt and yeah,

00:27:04.000 I think I think I know who I am as a fighter, and I can hang with those guys.

00:27:09.000 It's just I need to build back because it was a long time off.

00:27:13.000 Yeah, I would imagine.

00:27:14.000 Yeah, it was a long time off, but train with great guys.

00:27:17.000 I think in the next two or three fights, I'll really start taking big steps up.

00:27:22.000 And then after that, maybe in the next two, three years, I'll have that belt.

00:27:26.000 Yeah, their division is interesting.

00:27:29.000 Now, Rampage is going to heavyweight, too, right?

00:27:31.000 Yeah, I think it's a catchweight against King Mo.

00:27:35.000 I think that might be this next Friday or Saturday.

00:27:39.000 Yeah.

00:27:39.000 They're fighting in Chicago.

00:27:41.000 Yeah, I've been reading shit-talking online. 0.99

00:27:44.000 Yeah, they keep going back and forth. 0.99

00:27:46.000 King Mo keeps trying to fat-shame Rampage, and he's coming back.

00:27:51.000 I love that expression. 0.99

00:27:52.000 It's so silly. 0.99

00:27:53.000 It wants fighters fat-shaming when they're about to beat the fuck out of each other. 0.99

00:27:57.000 Call it fat-shaming.

00:27:59.000 So these lanterns you brought me, first of all, thank you.

00:28:01.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:28:02.000 And second of all, what is the deal with these bad boys?

00:28:04.000 So this is the first product that they had developed, and it's EcoSurvivor.

00:28:09.000 They're also out of Oklahoma City.

00:28:10.000 And this is the company that's donating 50% of their money, their profits, to Water4.

00:28:14.000 Absolutely.

00:28:15.000 And so all the packaging, this is old packaging.

00:28:17.000 And let everybody know that Water4 is the company that's building these wells in the Congo for the Pygmies, and this is the organization that you work closely with.

00:28:24.000 Right.

00:28:25.000 And so they started EcoSurvivor so that it could be basically an empowerment mechanism on all the packaging.

00:28:30.000 It's going to have a picture of me, a picture of the whales, a picture of the pygmies, and we're going to tell the story.

00:28:36.000 And when they go to EcoSurvivor.com...

00:28:39.000 Which I think just launched.

00:28:40.000 Looks great.

00:28:42.000 You would almost think it's a non-profit website because they're highlighting the cause so much.

00:28:47.000 But we're talking about how we make it sustainable there, empower them with sustainable business.

00:28:52.000 And they're like, hey, we want to do that here.

00:28:54.000 They were already a very successful company, the parent company's Jasko Products Company.

00:28:59.000 And they do licensing things, lights and all sorts of things for General Electric and...

00:29:07.000 Energizer and Philips.

00:29:08.000 I mean, they have 3,000 products on the market, so they're incredible.

00:29:11.000 Yeah, so there's their website.

00:29:12.000 Would you drink dirty water?

00:29:14.000 Nearly a billion people have no choice.

00:29:16.000 This is great, man.

00:29:18.000 So these things...

00:29:19.000 Oops, I just turned it on accidentally.

00:29:20.000 And so they're rugged.

00:29:22.000 They seem like it.

00:29:24.000 I mean, I've done impact testing where I'm jumping up and down on top of these.

00:29:27.000 What?

00:29:28.000 They're that strong?

00:29:28.000 Yeah, they're that strong.

00:29:29.000 I can stand on it right now.

00:29:30.000 How's that possible?

00:29:31.000 Yeah, there you go.

00:29:31.000 Put it down, stand on it.

00:29:33.000 You'll be fine. 0.97

00:29:34.000 I mean, my heavyweight butt gets on top of it and jumps around. 0.88

00:29:38.000 Dude, this is incredible. 0.97

00:29:40.000 Right?

00:29:40.000 So, I mean, our team is using this in the Congo.

00:29:43.000 There you go.

00:29:44.000 Look at that balance. 1.00

00:29:45.000 You're doing yoga on this motherfucker. 1.00

00:29:46.000 You are. 1.00

00:29:47.000 What's that, a scorpion?

00:29:48.000 I don't know what it is.

00:29:49.000 I don't know.

00:29:49.000 Pay attention.

00:29:50.000 I just do what they tell me to do.

00:29:52.000 That's amazing, man.

00:29:53.000 That's crazy.

00:29:54.000 You can stand on this thing, so you can probably chuck it around.

00:29:56.000 I've done that with, I won't name any names of the competitors, but whenever I start to stand on the other ones, the bulbs crush and the things break.

00:30:04.000 Yeah, so this right here, though, it's got carabiners.

00:30:07.000 Our guys were using this until 1.30 in the morning, maybe a week ago.

00:30:10.000 They put it up on the tripods, and then they're able to just go to work.

00:30:15.000 So it's really great.

00:30:16.000 What is the glass made out of?

00:30:17.000 How is the glass supporting me?

00:30:19.000 That part actually, so I do know this, that a dome structure is the strongest thing out there.

00:30:25.000 But it's plastic.

00:30:26.000 Yeah, it is.

00:30:27.000 It is a plastic.

00:30:28.000 So it's just a super strong plastic.

00:30:29.000 Super strong plastic.

00:30:30.000 It's LED light and it's got 360 degree omnidirectional lighting, which basically just means it goes all around and there's no blind spots with the light for the most part.

00:30:41.000 That's killer, man.

00:30:42.000 Yeah, and then so from there, we're going to do flashlights, headlamps, Bluetooth speakers, Bluetooth speakers that have battery packs in them, then just battery packs.

00:30:51.000 Then we're doing walkie-talkies, walkie-talkies that have battery packs in them. 0.99

00:30:55.000 Oh, shit! 0.99

00:30:56.000 Yeah, and so we're doing it to where the everyday adventurer can be part of it. 1.00

00:31:02.000 But we're doing it so that way this stuff's going to last for a team in the Congo.

00:31:06.000 And then when people are buying it here, they know that 50% of their purchase or the profits from the purchase are going straight to the cause.

00:31:13.000 That's awesome, man.

00:31:14.000 That's awesome.

00:31:15.000 Man, I've heard of companies doing...

00:31:17.000 I love it when a company gives 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, but I've never heard of a company.

00:31:23.000 I mean, they're running this better than a lot of nonprofits are, giving 50% of the profits away.

00:31:30.000 No, that's insane.

00:31:32.000 That's incredibly generous of them.

00:31:33.000 That's awesome, man.

00:31:34.000 Thanks.

00:31:35.000 And so, one more time, the company's called Eco Survivor.

00:31:38.000 And what is their website?

00:31:40.000 Ecosurvivor.com.

00:31:41.000 And it's kind of cool.

00:31:42.000 Jamie, if you can pull that up, even if you scroll down, so two days ago was World Water Day.

00:31:48.000 Oh yeah, and right on there.

00:31:49.000 Make a donation goes right to our page.

00:31:51.000 Make a purchase.

00:31:52.000 You can buy the lanterns right now.

00:31:53.000 We have a lot more coming out soon.

00:31:55.000 So right now it's just the lanterns and then the headlamps coming out because I use those.

00:31:59.000 Yeah, hopefully I'll get you some.

00:32:01.000 I'll buy them.

00:32:02.000 I want to contribute.

00:32:03.000 Thank you so much.

00:32:04.000 It shows where the walls are being built.

00:32:08.000 Wow, that's so cool.

00:32:09.000 And then down a little bit shows the statistics.

00:32:12.000 And it just shows, I mean, the average water walk, for instance, is 3.75 miles round trip for a woman to just go collect, oftentimes dirty, most of the times dirty water. 0.58

00:32:23.000 And heavy.

00:32:24.000 Heavy, 44 pounds.

00:32:25.000 It's 20 liters, 5 gallons.

00:32:27.000 Most people have no idea how hard it is to carry 40 pounds.

00:32:30.000 Yeah.

00:32:31.000 Oh, think about one of those kettlebells, right?

00:32:32.000 Yeah.

00:32:33.000 And then a lot of times the women do two at a time and the children do one. 0.99

00:32:38.000 And so these little girls can't go to school because they, in that water walk, they're not doing that one time a day. 1.00

00:32:43.000 They're doing it two and three times a day because their household needs more than just five gallons of water. 0.91

00:32:48.000 And so a lot of times the girls can't be sent to school or the kids can't or they have to pick one of the kids that can go to school so the other ones can go collect water all day. 1.00

00:32:57.000 I think it's over a billion days each year, work days that are lost just because of the women that have to go do the waterwalks. 1.00

00:33:04.000 Over a billion work days.

00:33:06.000 And if people have never seen any of the episodes that Justin was on before, please watch the last ones.

00:33:13.000 If you get a chance, you'll catch up more to what you've gone through, what some of these people have gone through, the kind of parasites these people get from this water, and how important this is for you, and how much growth and progress has been over the past few years of your efforts down there.

00:33:28.000 Well, thank you so much.

00:33:30.000 It's been incredible.

00:33:31.000 Emily was telling me, my wife, coming here, that, wow, this was over four years ago when you were on Joe's show the first time, and we hadn't drilled one single well.

00:33:41.000 That's crazy.

00:33:42.000 I had just been there.

00:33:44.000 Andy Bowe had happened, the one-and-a-half-year-old boy that had passed away.

00:33:47.000 Yeah.

00:33:48.000 Held his lifeless body and buried him.

00:33:50.000 It ripped me open.

00:33:53.000 It tore my heart apart.

00:33:54.000 Like it would anyone.

00:33:57.000 But it was just a rude awakening to the water crisis.

00:34:01.000 That there's 800 kids every day die just because of diarrhea.

00:34:06.000 Just like literally die from diarrhea.

00:34:08.000 And then 2,350 die of the malnutrition that diarrhea causes.

00:34:15.000 So if you're in an area that doesn't have access to clean water, there's probably not an abundance of food around you.

00:34:20.000 But even the food that you do get, you're eating it and it goes right through you because you have diarrhea.

00:34:25.000 You don't absorb any of the nutrients.

00:34:28.000 And so that's over 3,000 just because of that.

00:34:30.000 And then that's not counting a lot of the sicknesses and everything else, typhoid, E. coli.

00:34:34.000 And so that's 1.5 million deaths a year of children under the age of five.

00:34:39.000 1.5 million, all of them are preventable.

00:34:42.000 And so, like, I truly believe, man, like, we have, we've found something really special at Water4 and there's other organizations that That I'm sure are doing it in different spaces, but I feel like us, we are doing it in a way that we put the tools in the hands of the people that need it the most.

00:35:00.000 The people in the community.

00:35:01.000 I mean, our team's 18 people, and the first year that I was there, so in the last five years, I've lived there for about two years, back and forth, one year at one time.

00:35:12.000 But then I was able to help drill and train them for the first 13 wheels.

00:35:17.000 The year I was stepping back, I was nervous.

00:35:19.000 You know, I'm not going to be there.

00:35:20.000 I can't micromanage these guys or I can't watch them.

00:35:23.000 I can't encourage them.

00:35:24.000 You know, I don't want to micromanage anyone, but I can't be there to do the work.

00:35:29.000 But then they were able to do 20 wells the year without me, the next year.

00:35:32.000 Last year they did 29, so we're up to, I think, 62 wells that they've drilled for themselves in their own community.

00:35:39.000 And that's our guys of 18, but Water4 has 375, and they drilled 690 water wells last year alone.

00:35:46.000 Wow.

00:35:47.000 And that served, so those are 375 people in the continent of Africa that live in 16 African nations, and they were able to give 172,000 people clean water for the first time in their lives.

00:35:58.000 And so, man, we can knock this water crisis out in our lifetime, if that's what we do, if we give them the solution.

00:36:06.000 That's incredible.

00:36:07.000 That's amazing progress in just a few years.

00:36:10.000 Yeah, it's blown me away.

00:36:13.000 So talk to me about how Bellator is helping, how they're getting behind this.

00:36:17.000 Well, that's what really sold me.

00:36:19.000 I mean, I had offers from most places when I came back, but when I sat down with Scott, And I was writing the book with Loretta and went out to eat with him in Santa Monica and he was just like hey like we want to give you a chance to really tell your story like you need to fight you got to prove it like you have to have that that hard work and skill and talent behind you you have to be able to perform but if you can do that we're gonna rally around you they want to rally around their fighters

00:36:49.000 that that that put in the time the effort that they can produce results but It was really encouraging to hear that and then I was bummed out the first two fights I mean I won but I didn't win decisively like I wanted to so to get this last fight underneath me where I really performed well and and was pretty dominant like I think they know that I can fight and and I know I can fight and so now we can do this in a way that Man,

00:37:18.000 when I win, literally wells are being drilled every single time.

00:37:22.000 Wow.

00:37:22.000 And so EcoSurvivor is helping me drill several wells after this last one.

00:37:26.000 That's incredible.

00:37:27.000 Yeah.

00:37:28.000 Now, how do you balance out your training when you're visiting the Congo and staying there?

00:37:33.000 Yeah.

00:37:34.000 So a tough thing is, so I kind of shared a little bit of our model and how we give the tools to the people in the community.

00:37:42.000 So my travel schedule, it's been a hard pill to swallow, but I think it's the most strategic thing where I'm only going to go once a year now.

00:37:49.000 I'm going to go once a year because I need to be here training.

00:37:53.000 At first I thought I was the one that made this thing go, but really it's our guys in the field.

00:38:01.000 They're the engine, and I was maybe the spark plug that kind of started up something.

00:38:06.000 And now I get to go back and be the encourager or to fuel them back up.

00:38:10.000 But they're the ones doing the work.

00:38:12.000 And so I'm only going to go once a year.

00:38:14.000 I'll probably fight in June or July.

00:38:16.000 I was talking with Bellator.

00:38:18.000 And then right after that, we're starting up a soap production facility in Congo with our guys is going to start another eight to 10 jobs because we go in and we teach the wash program.

00:38:27.000 So we need them to start making soap for themselves because right now the only thing I've ever seen available is car washing soap that's packed full of chemicals from China or India.

00:38:39.000 Did they wash themselves with car washing soap?

00:38:41.000 I did while I was there for the year, and my skin would be raw afterwards because there was nothing else available.

00:38:46.000 I mean, I took soap with me, but when I was there for a full year, I mean, it only lasted for the first month, maybe.

00:38:51.000 Right.

00:38:51.000 And so the rest of the time, I was using this car washing soap that, man, it...

00:38:55.000 It's rough on your body.

00:38:56.000 And so we are partnering with a company called Pacha Soap.

00:39:00.000 They're at all the Whole Foods.

00:39:01.000 They have a sister company, Amazi, they're at Target.

00:39:04.000 And those guys go around and they start up soap production facilities in the developing nation to give jobs.

00:39:11.000 So is it possible that that could become an industry for the people in the Congo where they can start selling their soap?

00:39:15.000 Absolutely.

00:39:15.000 And then, you know, maybe Eco Survivor could sell it on their website as well?

00:39:19.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:39:20.000 Or they'll start up a new, yeah, or that other company.

00:39:23.000 Yeah.

00:39:23.000 Pacha, which has been great to us.

00:39:24.000 They actually, a kind of cool story, the founder of Pacha was listening to this podcast whenever he had the dreams to start it up.

00:39:32.000 And he was actually being like kind of a, I think it was a janitor at night through the night shift.

00:39:37.000 And he was listening to this and he had all the dreams to start up Pacha. 0.94

00:39:40.000 He helped us get our 501c3 with Fight for the Forgotten. 0.99

00:39:44.000 Holy shit. 0.98

00:39:44.000 So after my first time being on the show, he reached out to me and he had just started up Pacha. 0.98

00:39:49.000 And so he helped me get Fight for the Forgotten started up.

00:39:52.000 His name's Andrew Verbis.

00:39:54.000 Great, incredible guy.

00:39:55.000 But the inspiration he got from here to do something, make a difference.

00:39:58.000 Now he's in all the Whole Foods.

00:40:00.000 He's about to be in Target.

00:40:01.000 And he's coming with me this next trip.

00:40:04.000 Or actually, he might not come because we don't really take...

00:40:07.000 Volunteers now.

00:40:07.000 We just empower the locals.

00:40:09.000 But we're going to start up that soap production facility that's going to start eight to ten new jobs.

00:40:13.000 We'll go in the schools, because last year our team spent 301 days teaching the wash program.

00:40:18.000 So teaching water and sanitation and hygiene, helping them dig latrines, helping them know the importance of clean hands.

00:40:26.000 So we set up outside the latrines a hand washing station, which is called a tippy tap.

00:40:31.000 So they have a clean jug of water, they have a bar of soap, they step on a stick and a rope, and it tilts this jug over, and they're able to wash their hands right there.

00:40:41.000 But then they only had that car washing soap, so now we're going to meet another need, start up the soap production.

00:40:46.000 They have the eucalyptus trees there, the palm oil, the avocados, I mean, just whatever we need, the lemongrass, whatever we need to make the soap with, which that's not my specialty, but I know all the raw materials are there.

00:40:56.000 What is this company again?

00:40:57.000 And how do people find out about this company?

00:40:58.000 Pacha?

00:40:59.000 Spell that.

00:41:00.000 P-A-C-H-A. Pacha Soap. 1.00

00:41:04.000 And you can go, I think, into any Whole Foods.

00:41:06.000 Pacha.com?

00:41:06.000 I think it's Pacha Soap.com.

00:41:09.000 Pacha Soap.com.

00:41:10.000 But they're incredible, man.

00:41:11.000 They're in Whole Foods.

00:41:12.000 They're already in Whole Foods?

00:41:12.000 They just started?

00:41:13.000 No, no.

00:41:14.000 They've been in there a few years now.

00:41:16.000 Fill your Easter basket.

00:41:17.000 But yeah, you're saying this is all within the last few years, right?

00:41:20.000 Oh yeah.

00:41:20.000 Within the last few years, last four or five years.

00:41:22.000 It's amazing.

00:41:23.000 So it's Pacha Soap.com?

00:41:24.000 Yeah.

00:41:25.000 And they're hiring.

00:41:27.000 Look at that.

00:41:27.000 There you go.

00:41:28.000 Your purchase spread goodness.

00:41:30.000 Wow.

00:41:30.000 And so they do a buy one, give one, but they do it in the right way.

00:41:34.000 Because the social entrepreneurship, like you buy one and then here and we give one in a developing nation.

00:41:40.000 Right.

00:41:41.000 Sounds really good.

00:41:42.000 It's got the right heart good intentions, but it can be very dangerous if it's distributed in the wrong way So their buy one give one actually creates jobs in the developing nation then they make it and then they sell it and they're able to give it that way to their community instead of Some of the charities,

00:41:59.000 you buy something here and you go give it over there.

00:42:03.000 And then when they go, they go with huge amounts.

00:42:05.000 And say if they're dropping off shoes or clothes or whatever, the local people that have a shoe store go out of business whenever you bring in containers and containers of shoes.

00:42:16.000 Or the guy that's repairing the shoes, the cobbler, you know, the one that's making shoes there.

00:42:22.000 So you can't just go into a community and give it out.

00:42:24.000 I actually watched a documentary recently called Poverty Inc.

00:42:28.000 Man, it was powerful.

00:42:29.000 Showing how charity hurts or how...

00:42:32.000 There's also a great book out called When Helping Hurts.

00:42:35.000 And it talks about, hey, charity's awesome when it's absolutely needed, but it's very dangerous if you use it in the wrong way.

00:42:43.000 You can cripple a community.

00:42:45.000 And so how do we empower the local communities with a hand up?

00:42:48.000 How does it cripple the community?

00:42:49.000 By giving them something for nothing and then they Yeah, that's first on the surface.

00:42:57.000 They can develop a dependence mentality of just putting a hand out because they got to get what they can get whenever people just show up, blow up and blow out of there.

00:43:06.000 But the documentary Poverty Inc.

00:43:08.000 goes in there and shows how in Haiti, their local farmers have been put out of business by government subsidies.

00:43:16.000 I've been to Haiti, and I've seen the American-grown rice that's all just given out for free.

00:43:21.000 Or at the markets, the people that get it for free then go to the market and they beat all the local farmers because they got it for free or they paid such a small price.

00:43:30.000 They didn't really do all the work, so they're able to beat all their competitors, the local market.

00:43:34.000 So they get it for free and then they sell it?

00:43:35.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:43:36.000 They can at little shops.

00:43:37.000 They can do that, or they just get it and they don't need it.

00:43:39.000 And so it cuts off the local farmers who are trying to sell their own stuff, and since they're getting it for free, they can sell at a much lower price.

00:43:46.000 Right, absolutely.

00:43:47.000 And it shows, it dives deep into how...

00:43:51.000 How it hurts so much in a way that, like, man, I think Haiti's, they used to eat rice two to three times a week.

00:44:02.000 Now they're eating it three times a day with breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

00:44:05.000 And they're doing it, and it's all the rice that they have available to them are from the U.S. or from China or from India.

00:44:12.000 And it's because these big farmers with a lot of power in the government, they're able to make deals with the United Nations and other places to be able to go in and give out their rice there.

00:44:22.000 And they get paid for it from the government here, right?

00:44:24.000 U.S. government pays these farmers these prices and then they go into a community and just give it out.

00:44:30.000 How do I say this in a way that it's not bad intentions?

00:44:34.000 No one's trying to...

00:44:34.000 I don't think there's these evil people trying to destroy developing nations.

00:44:39.000 I don't think that's the case.

00:44:41.000 But there's a model out there that's been the traditional model of let's announce our arrival by throwing a parade.

00:44:48.000 Let's throw a big party.

00:44:50.000 Let's get a bunch of pictures.

00:44:53.000 And let's leave to the next one because we have such a big...

00:44:59.000 Organization or so many funds or a big quota to hit.

00:45:02.000 We have, this is our goal this year.

00:45:04.000 We have this many tally marks to get.

00:45:06.000 So we blast into one community and then we blow out of there into a new one.

00:45:10.000 We don't develop relationships with them to be able to empower them, teach them skills.

00:45:14.000 That part, how do I say it?

00:45:16.000 The answer to poverty isn't charity, it's opportunity.

00:45:22.000 Opportunity is always better than charity if that if that makes sense a handout or hand up like the give a man a fish Right feed him for a day or teach him how to fish feed him for a lifetime And so if there's a disaster if there's a person with a disability If there's a war or famine then charity is the solution, 0.98

00:45:39.000 but there's got to be an escape plan There's got to be a route out.

00:45:42.000 Otherwise whenever I went to Haiti it was a year and a half two years after the earthquake and And the tent city they had, had doubled or tripled in size.

00:45:50.000 Because I met a guy there that was saying, I moved out of my apartment, which wasn't damaged by the earthquake, and I get to go live at tent city rent-free.

00:46:00.000 I still have my job, and I get three meals a day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

00:46:05.000 I don't have to prepare them.

00:46:06.000 I don't have to pay for them.

00:46:07.000 And these places are always going to be giving to that tent city, and it's actually grown in size. 0.98

00:46:14.000 He was like, I'm saving up to buy a house.

00:46:17.000 And so it's like if people think oh, there's just this disaster It's like man if someone brought in like some vocational training, you know, let's teach these people how to do this kind of work like I don't think honestly most sane people Out there that are living in poverty want to be poor for the rest of their life They're sitting there waiting for an opportunity.

00:46:37.000 The dad wants to put food on the table for the family So does the mom she wants to take care of her kids and so whenever we can come into a community And spend time with them, if that makes sense.

00:46:47.000 Like sit down, listen to them, learn from them.

00:46:49.000 And then we can say, how can we work together?

00:46:52.000 How can we brainstorm?

00:46:53.000 What does your community really need?

00:46:55.000 Instead of treating it like there's a cookie cutter solution or blueprint, that since it worked in this community, it's going to work in that community.

00:47:03.000 Or since it worked in this community.

00:47:05.000 It's going to work in that country.

00:47:06.000 Every country has its own culture.

00:47:09.000 Congo has over 200 tribes.

00:47:11.000 That's over 200 different cultures.

00:47:12.000 And so some are going to receive it well, some aren't.

00:47:15.000 How do you work with them in a way that isn't just coming in and just giving them stuff?

00:47:22.000 I've seen a riot happen in Uganda.

00:47:25.000 It was in Jinja, Uganda.

00:47:28.000 Where an organization came in with a bunch of canned foods.

00:47:31.000 And they did it in a very poor fashion where they just cracked open this container in a slum.

00:47:37.000 And it's one of the roughest slums in Uganda.

00:47:40.000 And people just raided it.

00:47:42.000 And it didn't even give probably a quarter of the people in the slums a canned item from the U.S. And so people started fighting over it.

00:47:50.000 And they're fighting over it.

00:47:52.000 And someone got really hurt.

00:47:54.000 I don't know if they died, but someone got really hurt there.

00:47:56.000 We had to get out of there.

00:47:58.000 And so, what I know from that organization is, and I'm not going to say the organization, but I heard from the other organizations there that they had been warned, like, you're new at this, don't go in there and do this.

00:48:09.000 Don't crack open this container and do it that way.

00:48:12.000 But they had spent like $20,000 getting the canned goods there, buying a container, shipping it over there, going through Kenya, then Then probably Tanzania, then Kenya, then Uganda.

00:48:27.000 They're having to pay all the fees everywhere they go to just go give it away.

00:48:31.000 That $20,000 could have empowered so many farmers locally or people that don't know how to farm to be able to start farming for themselves that then is going to have such a better return on investment because you're investing into the people, into a trade, into a skill, into something that they need, and it's going to last.

00:48:47.000 It's going to continue to produce results.

00:48:49.000 It totally makes sense.

00:48:50.000 And I think what you're saying is so important that these people have great intentions, but that just human nature and giving the circumstances in which these people live in where they had no hope and then all of a sudden they have this one thing.

00:49:01.000 And this one thing is gifts.

00:49:03.000 Far better to do what you're doing, to provide them with opportunity.

00:49:06.000 And I think that's...

00:49:08.000 I mean, the issue that I think a lot of people are going to have with even discussing that is the callous discussions of the welfare mentality, you know, the way people look at some communities and people who, you know, the term welfare brats or welfare,

00:49:23.000 you know, welfare people that are just kind of like connected to that mentality.

00:49:27.000 The need for charity.

00:49:29.000 And I think that mirrors the idea of welfare and, you know, where people don't have jobs and don't have opportunities and just getting money and getting addicted to that money.

00:49:38.000 That problem exists in America as well.

00:49:40.000 Obviously, it's a much bigger deal in the Congo because you're talking about, like, basic life necessities, like fresh water.

00:49:47.000 But I think that's important, man.

00:49:48.000 It's important to understand what human nature, the mechanisms of human nature, and what you're talking about here is really powerful.

00:49:55.000 To have thought it out so well, and to give these people this opportunity, and now to give these people this opportunity with soap.

00:50:02.000 I mean, Pacha is doing an awesome job.

00:50:04.000 I mean, that's an amazing thing.

00:50:06.000 I think that's so important.

00:50:07.000 And I really hope that more people listen and more people hear you and more people say, hey, you know, I want to get involved.

00:50:14.000 Let's do something else in the Congo. 0.96

00:50:15.000 Let's give these people another opportunity.

00:50:17.000 If they could start businesses down there, man, and like really empower themselves and be able to build homes and just like in your lifetime, you could see some crazy change.

00:50:27.000 Yeah.

00:50:27.000 Yeah, I know that's coming in Congo, but I think, like, let's not set a ceiling or roof on it, and I'm not saying that's what you're saying, but I'm just saying that I truly believe that the water crisis, one billion people not having clean water, In our lifetime,

00:50:44.000 we have the tools, the technology, and people are learning.

00:50:46.000 I mean, from podcasting, like people are getting better than doctorate's degrees, you know, like in information and life experience and learning and learning to do things the right way and truly have people's best interests at heart.

00:51:00.000 I think there's going to be a real shift to where, I mean, if I have the water to take a piss in or to water my lawn with or to give my dog clean water, We're going to be able to give every person in the world clean water.

00:51:12.000 But it's through empowerment and it's through opportunity.

00:51:16.000 And that's what I love.

00:51:18.000 Since it was World Water Day two days ago, I have a video that kind of explains the problem.

00:51:24.000 And it's from a village that I'm really close with named Ataluhulu.

00:51:28.000 And there's this little girl named Siku that was just...

00:51:32.000 A beautiful little girl, and if it's okay, but it shows what they're facing, what they're drinking.

00:51:38.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:51:38.000 And man, it's powerful.

00:51:41.000 You got that, Jamie?

00:51:42.000 Hashtag powerful.

00:51:55.000 My hope for my children is for them to go to school, to grow in peace, and to be good and take care of me when I'm old.

00:52:10.000 That's the water they were drinking.

00:52:13.000 For folks just listening, it's green algae all over the surface of it.

00:52:18.000 It looks disgusting.

00:52:23.000 Everyone is suffering here, but in most cases, it's our children.

00:52:31.000 I know the water we drink gives us all these sicknesses.

00:52:45.000 My daughter's name was Siku.

00:52:56.000 She couldn't speak yet, but she was able to crawl.

00:53:00.000 She was a baby.

00:53:03.000 I suffered so much when she was suffering.

00:53:08.000 I brought her to the hospital.

00:53:10.000 She passed away there.

00:53:20.000 I said to myself, I was just carrying my baby.

00:53:24.000 And then to see people burying her?

00:53:28.000 I said, how did she disappear?

00:53:31.000 Where did she go?

00:53:39.000 She's carrying this water on her head, folks. 1.00

00:53:41.000 This giant jug.

00:53:43.000 When I lost my child, I lost all hope for the future.

00:53:51.000 We're watching a video of her walking through the Congo carrying this water jug on top of her head.

00:53:57.000 This 45-pound jug. 1.00

00:54:01.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:54:04.000 That's hard to deal with. 1.00

00:54:10.000 If someone like you wasn't bringing attention to this, do you understand what a huge role you're playing here?

00:54:17.000 I mean, it's surreal, but at the same time, I think that's why I've completely, wholeheartedly dedicated my life to this, because that was the...

00:54:30.000 That was the first promise.

00:54:32.000 I didn't know that we could do anything with land or water or food at first.

00:54:36.000 Now we have 3,000 acres of land, drilled the 62 wells.

00:54:39.000 We have three farms up and running, about to start the soap.

00:54:42.000 But man, like, I didn't want to make any promises that I couldn't keep.

00:54:47.000 And for the chief to come to us and say, hey, everyone else calls us the forest people, but we call ourselves the forgotten.

00:54:54.000 It wrecked me.

00:54:54.000 And then he said, can you help us have a voice?

00:54:58.000 Because we don't have one.

00:54:59.000 I said yes.

00:55:00.000 I knew that from fighting, from being on The Ultimate Fighter, whether that ever grew or didn't grow, I had some people.

00:55:09.000 And just having the platform of being here, being from the West, being from somewhere where people can have an abundance of resources to make a difference.

00:55:19.000 And even if it's small, like our small here is so big there.

00:55:24.000 And so I said yes to that, and little Siku was the third little one that I knew that had passed in Atalahulu, and before that was Andy Bo, after that was little Babo, a little girl named Mo also,

00:55:40.000 and Sangule, and Kaptula, and Siku.

00:55:45.000 And these are all kids I knew that I had become friends with over two years living there.

00:55:53.000 And so, having either held them or buried them or having played, growing up, knowing their families, they're seeing some of those kids grow up and then their lives get cut short.

00:56:05.000 It's been like, man, like, when I fight, it's in honor of them.

00:56:09.000 When I talk about this problem, like, I know the...

00:56:12.000 It's not just I read about it or I just maybe saw it and it hurt for a little while.

00:56:17.000 I knew them.

00:56:18.000 Those kids, 800 kids a day from diarrhea and 2,350 from another 1.5 billion a year.

00:56:24.000 I know the names of some of those kids and had relationships with them and their families.

00:56:30.000 So, I never would have thought that I would be in a position to try to help or that I even knew about the problem.

00:56:38.000 I didn't until it hit me upside the head.

00:56:41.000 But now that that's where my life has gone, that's what I'm going to dedicate it to.

00:56:46.000 Wow. 0.99

00:56:47.000 That's powerful shit, dude. 1.00

00:56:49.000 You're living a fucking crazy life. 1.00

00:56:51.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:56:51.000 You really are. 1.00

00:56:52.000 I mean, you're really living a life of purpose.

00:56:55.000 It's so rare that someone does it at such a high level, you know?

00:57:00.000 I mean, you're in a very strange situation, a very strange driver's seat in life.

00:57:06.000 I mean, yeah, it is definitely strange, but thank you to you, man, for...

00:57:12.000 For even allowing me to have this platform before we drilled.

00:57:16.000 I mean, we were getting to it, but we hadn't actually completed it yet.

00:57:21.000 It's kind of how Andrew was listening to JRE while he was being a janitor, had this dream.

00:57:27.000 I had this dream, and you allowed me to come on and share about it.

00:57:30.000 So many stars have aligned because of that.

00:57:34.000 And there's just been a lot of really great stuff.

00:57:37.000 That knife, actually, I have a picture for you.

00:57:40.000 I'm holding up a knife that's made out of a nail.

00:57:44.000 I use this to open up all my letters and packages and stuff.

00:57:47.000 That's so awesome.

00:57:49.000 Chief Leo May made both of those for you.

00:57:53.000 I think on that little file it says knife and I actually had a picture I didn't get to show you yet but this is how he makes the knives but he just finds the nails out in the forest and some ladders or different things and he pulls them out the people deforesting the rainforest he gets their nails and makes them something Something useful.

00:58:16.000 And so that's a picture of the knife.

00:58:20.000 I think there might be one more picture of him making the knives.

00:58:22.000 So what he's doing is he's taking a nail and he's hammering it flat.

00:58:26.000 He's taking this big spike nail, like a construction nail.

00:58:30.000 Like a railroad.

00:58:31.000 Yeah.

00:58:32.000 And not quite a railroad nail.

00:58:35.000 It's like a framing nail, right?

00:58:38.000 Oh, the one in his right hand that he hammers it down with.

00:58:40.000 He uses it as a hammer.

00:58:41.000 It's a railroad spike.

00:58:44.000 Just really creative.

00:58:46.000 And this is actually, if you pull up the other one that says, oh yeah, there he is with some of the kiddos.

00:58:51.000 This little Swazi on the right. 1.00

00:58:53.000 And there's the huts behind them and the twig and leaves.

00:58:55.000 They make those kind of doorways in there. 0.70

00:58:58.000 And it's just been really cool.

00:59:01.000 They live on 247 acres.

00:59:03.000 It's land that they have for the first time.

00:59:07.000 And, oh man, so that video was powerful because it showed the problem, but there's actually one that's with Chief Leo May.

00:59:16.000 It's the second video on that list, and if I can show that to you, I got something for you.

00:59:20.000 From there, from Leo May's village, it's called Bobofi, and there's a video that's going to show the transformation or the solution to the problem, because that first video just showed the problem is hard, but then there's hope, too, that we can do something about it.

00:59:43.000 Real transformation changes the present and the future.

00:59:51.000 So he's walking with a giant.

00:59:59.000 My name is Leome.

01:00:01.000 I'm from Bobofi Village.

01:00:04.000 I want to teach my grandson how to hunt.

01:00:14.000 We are teaching these young boys this because this is our original way of life.

01:00:21.000 One day we'll die, but these young people will live on. 1.00

01:00:32.000 I love that forest.

01:00:33.000 I love it.

01:00:37.000 It's gorgeous.

01:00:39.000 People treat pygmies like we aren't important. 1.00

01:00:42.000 They think we're stupid. 0.99

01:00:49.000 When we worked on farms, we would get 10 or 15 bananas to split among seven people. 1.00

01:00:57.000 If I tried to start a small farm, someone would take it from me and say, your father did not own any land.

01:01:12.000 In 2013, Leome's village received land of their own.

01:01:15.000 It's about 247 acres.

01:01:20.000 I was happy to have my own land, but we were getting water from the river.

01:01:27.000 It was bad water.

01:01:28.000 Our people were sick.

01:01:33.000 Sometimes they would get sick and die without treatment.

01:01:57.000 I've never heard of anybody getting sick from the water since we've had the well here.

01:02:02.000 It's so good.

01:02:03.000 It's so sweet.

01:02:04.000 I love it.

01:02:05.000 But the big change is that we can farm.

01:02:10.000 This is a before and after of the same place.

01:02:12.000 All those banana trees.

01:02:18.000 We started with potatoes, then cassava, then we planted some banana trees.

01:02:25.000 How many banana trees have you planted?

01:02:37.000 I cannot count.

01:02:38.000 It's a lot.

01:02:41.000 I can't finish counting.

01:02:57.000 The first time we took bananas to the market, we bought clothes for the children.

01:03:02.000 When we saw them wearing clothes and shoes, we were so happy.

01:03:10.000 Today, we have a toilet.

01:03:12.000 We have a place to wash our hands.

01:03:14.000 We have a place to shower.

01:03:18.000 So to me, that's progress.

01:03:24.000 I'm so full of joy.

01:03:27.000 I'm so full of joy.

01:03:29.000 Because he did a great thing for us here.

01:03:33.000 Because they did a great thing for us here.

01:03:35.000 So this generation and generation children will be here on this land.

01:03:45.000 Wow.

01:03:47.000 That's intense.

01:03:50.000 It's intense.

01:03:51.000 Imagine living your whole life in despair, and then all of a sudden, over the last few years, things radically change for the better.

01:03:59.000 That's powerful, man.

01:04:01.000 Wow.

01:04:02.000 Whew.

01:04:04.000 Man.

01:04:05.000 What a crazy thing you're doing, Justin Wren.

01:04:09.000 Well, to be completely honest, man, I got to be the spark plug, but man, there's a big engine around this.

01:04:18.000 Oh, I understand.

01:04:19.000 Stateside Water 4, without a doubt, all of our supporters, we couldn't do it without them.

01:04:24.000 But mostly, we couldn't do it without the people on the ground there in the Congo, 18 Congolese people with a heart to change, be the change in their own country, to change the country from the inside out, countrymen to countrymen.

01:04:36.000 Not being dependent on others.

01:04:38.000 I mean, they're starting to secure water contracts to drill wells and do water projects in their own country, so that way they don't have to be dependent on us.

01:04:47.000 I mean, our team in Uganda is over 70% self-sufficient, self-funded inside the country.

01:04:53.000 Our guys in Congo are close to 50%, and we're on track to get these teams to where they're 100% self-sufficient, to where we just come in with the training and the techniques and the tools.

01:05:04.000 But, like, they don't need us to fund it anymore.

01:05:07.000 So that way we can go off to other places and do it again, replicate it.

01:05:11.000 Wow.

01:05:11.000 So what is the...

01:05:12.000 Is there a long-term strategy in terms of...

01:05:15.000 Yeah.

01:05:16.000 So basically things that work in their context.

01:05:20.000 So that way we give them, like, the manual drilling.

01:05:24.000 One instance, I don't know why this Swahili proverb just popped in my mind, but they say, you Americans or you Westerners, you guys all have watches.

01:05:32.000 But we're the ones who have time.

01:05:35.000 And so does that make sense?

01:05:37.000 Like you guys all have watches, but we have time.

01:05:40.000 And they see us as always rushing, rushing, rushing and trying to get this done and that done and this done.

01:05:45.000 And they're like, hey, it's good to go out and crush things and get so many goals and so many accomplishments under your belt.

01:05:50.000 But let's make sure we're doing it all the right way.

01:05:53.000 So that's what I mean.

01:05:54.000 Honestly, I've learned from them.

01:05:55.000 Slow it down so you can do it right.

01:05:57.000 Do it correctly.

01:05:59.000 I've even started to implement that into my lifting and training, right?

01:06:02.000 Like slow things down, do it slow, controlled, and do it correctly instead of just trying to put up a bunch of weight.

01:06:09.000 And so there, they slow things down.

01:06:13.000 And honestly, the long-term solution is the reason why we don't take volunteers anymore.

01:06:20.000 And I've only taken two people with me to the Congo.

01:06:23.000 But they were geohydrologists or engineers that needed to come.

01:06:28.000 But the reason is because when you take volunteers over, most of them are going to be amateurs or they're going to be white belts, if I put it to an MMA or BJJ analogy.

01:06:40.000 And our guys in the field there, they're becoming black belts, or they are now.

01:06:44.000 After years of training, years of development on this since 2011, I mean, our guys in Congo have drilled those 62 wells, but they went to Sierra Leone.

01:06:54.000 They taught a team in Cameroon from the ground up.

01:06:57.000 They went to Uganda, Kenya, and Rwanda.

01:07:02.000 And these teams are all working together, and they're going off after they learn how to do it.

01:07:06.000 They're going to other communities in their own country, or they're going to another country.

01:07:10.000 It's so cool.

01:07:11.000 We have this dynamic going on between, we call it the Virunga Initiative.

01:07:15.000 There's the Virunga Mountains that are on the border of Uganda, Rwanda, and Congo.

01:07:21.000 Now, there's so many rebel groups that are there, and those countries have been at war against each other.

01:07:31.000 Like, the people from those nations pretty much hate each other. 0.59

01:07:34.000 Like, they all blame one another for, you guys are doing this in our country, and you're sending rebels into our country, or your government soldiers are actually pretending to be rebels, but they're working for the government, and they're stealing our gold and our diamonds.

01:07:46.000 Anyway, so they...

01:07:48.000 They don't work together, but now our well drillers that are from Rwanda and Uganda and Congo, they're all working so much together.

01:07:56.000 We get everything in from Uganda.

01:07:58.000 Our team goes to Rwanda from Congo to teach them how to train, but that Rwandan team comes over to us and teaches us business principles.

01:08:08.000 It's just been so cool.

01:08:10.000 To see how they're working together and how our guys in Congo are holding Ugandan and Rwandan flags over their back taking pictures and the other guys are wearing Congo flags over their back and Our team that came from Uganda to live with me for three months and our team to help us really get off the ground and start learning They had drilled over 100 wells for their fellow Ugandans They left for three months to come live with us in Congo Their first day there,

01:08:38.000 the car flipped.

01:08:40.000 Their taxi driver flipped.

01:08:41.000 The car ran over a woman, killed her.

01:08:44.000 They don't speak the Congolese, Swahili, or French.

01:08:47.000 They're from an English-speaking nation in Uganda.

01:08:51.000 And all of a sudden, the car was looted.

01:08:54.000 It was torched. 0.99

01:08:56.000 And people were chasing them down, wanting to put tires around them and set them on fire and burn them and kill them because they were Ugandan. 0.98

01:09:03.000 They got in an accident. 0.97

01:09:04.000 It's the whole mob justice kind of mentality that happens.

01:09:07.000 Like...

01:09:09.000 If they send them to the jail or court, they know that justice probably won't be had if they have money on them.

01:09:15.000 And so people just want justice then.

01:09:19.000 It's kind of wild over there in that area of the world.

01:09:22.000 So these Ugandan guys literally knew they're risking their lives to come live with us in Congo just because they're hated by Congolese.

01:09:28.000 But then whenever they flip their vehicle, first day there, they're on the border basically still of Uganda.

01:09:34.000 They're in a town called Nyoka, which means snake.

01:09:37.000 And they hit a lady. 0.97

01:09:38.000 It killed her.

01:09:39.000 And that was the taxi driver driving it, and he's not part of our team.

01:09:42.000 But then they all wanted to kill the Ugandan guys instead of the Congolese guy.

01:09:47.000 And then they still stuck it out.

01:09:50.000 We were able to regain our $15,000 of well drilling equipment that was there.

01:09:54.000 Luckily, we had a...

01:09:55.000 This is a side topic, but we had this...

01:10:00.000 This water filtration system that was from solar panels and they had these two big chambers on it and in the middle is this timer that you literally Twist and it goes for an hour and has a green and red light on it and it ticks tick tick tick tick tick Well, we had it locked up whenever it came from the states and our Ugandan team picked it up and they go hey the Something called TSA broke off the lock and left you a note And so they were checking it because it looked like these two chambers and a timer and it looked like it could have been a bomb in this big pelican case and So whenever the Congolese guys looted 0.89

01:10:30.000 the car, set it on fire, they ran away with it and hid behind a hut.

01:10:35.000 Well, whenever they opened that Pelican case, all of a sudden they thought it was a bomb and they ran away and left all of our stuff there.

01:10:41.000 So whenever they found out that these guys from Uganda already risked their lives to come here and teach Congolese how to drill wells for themselves. 1.00

01:10:49.000 They were truly good guys.

01:10:51.000 It was just an accident.

01:10:53.000 They got behind us and led us back to our equipment and said, be careful, though, like that bomb.

01:10:59.000 That's why we left it out there.

01:11:00.000 So they understood that it was a big misunderstanding.

01:11:03.000 Yeah, it was a big misunderstanding.

01:11:04.000 And so they forgave those people?

01:11:06.000 Forgave our Ugandan well drillers, who weren't even really a part of it. 0.67

01:11:09.000 It was the taxi driver that accidentally hit.

01:11:12.000 Did they apologize for wanting to stick tires around them and light them on fire?

01:11:15.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:11:16.000 And so anyway, that's a long story.

01:11:19.000 It was crazy wild, and we thought our guys were going to die because we were like six hours away from them, and we were hearing like a riot basically happening.

01:11:26.000 But it was so cool, man, that we got all our supplies back, and then afterwards, I mean, we...

01:11:34.000 We helped with the burial process and the funeral and everything else, even though it was the taxi driver, not us.

01:11:41.000 We felt so bad that that had happened.

01:11:43.000 But then to know like, hey, now it was just a story that we were able to, not the loss of life, but those people now know that we're here to help them.

01:11:51.000 And we were able to go back in there and do that for them afterwards.

01:11:56.000 It's amazing, man.

01:11:57.000 I mean, I know there's a book that Loretta Hunt wrote with you, right?

01:12:03.000 But you've lived another life since the book.

01:12:06.000 Yeah.

01:12:07.000 You know?

01:12:07.000 I mean, you have another book's life, a book's, well, a life's worth of, what's the way to describe it?

01:12:13.000 Another, easily another book.

01:12:15.000 Right.

01:12:16.000 Well, thanks.

01:12:17.000 Well, that's what I love about, man, these short films, that's all part of the documentary.

01:12:22.000 In fact, maybe, I mean, I should probably say that, like, after I was on the second or third time here, we did a Kickstarter for the documentary, and we got it fully funded.

01:12:31.000 The documentary is not out yet because we're going back one more time to film.

01:12:36.000 That will probably be July or August right after my fight.

01:12:38.000 We'll bust over there and we're trying to submit it to Sundance Film Festival this year.

01:12:42.000 We submit it in September.

01:12:44.000 Hopefully we get in the festival and we'll be there in January.

01:12:50.000 And then it will be out and a lot of the GRE supporters that gave to the Kickstarter will be able to do it.

01:12:54.000 But we really wanted to do the story, not the story, we wanted to do the Pygmies and their family and everyone suffering from the world's water crisis.

01:13:05.000 We wanted to do them justice, to give them a voice.

01:13:07.000 The book was me giving them a voice, but the documentary, they're going to have their own voice.

01:13:12.000 And so it's been so cool.

01:13:13.000 It's been filmed over three and a half years now.

01:13:15.000 I think when it comes out, it'll be four full years.

01:13:18.000 That Derek's been able to go back and forth and go get more of the story and show not just like them getting water for the first time, but then also how we're giving jobs, how they're getting trained, how they're starting up workshops, how we're breaking ground on the soap production facility.

01:13:32.000 We already have the land.

01:13:33.000 We started the foundation of the place and so how it's the full spectrum of it to To hopefully show how empowerment, how much farther that goes.

01:13:45.000 Now it's a lot tougher.

01:13:46.000 It takes a lot more time.

01:13:48.000 You really have to be strategic.

01:13:49.000 You have to sit and listen and learn and be humble enough to say, like, it's a learning process.

01:13:55.000 Like when you do something, whenever you get out of that lane of truly listening and saying, I think that's the quote that our team tries to live by.

01:14:08.000 It's a Swahili proverb that says, if you want to go fast, go alone.

01:14:11.000 But if you want to go far, go together.

01:14:15.000 And so it's like, how can every community we go in, how can we take this as far as we can?

01:14:20.000 Not go as fast as we can.

01:14:22.000 Because if we want to go fast, we just leave them out of it.

01:14:25.000 But if we want to go far, we'll go together.

01:14:27.000 So we do that with our well-drilling team, but we do that with the communities too.

01:14:30.000 Because they all live like a saying that's just ingrained in them.

01:14:34.000 Wow.

01:14:35.000 Do you have a long-term strategy with this?

01:14:38.000 How long do you see yourself fighting, and what do you see yourself doing after you're done with that?

01:14:45.000 I think I'm going to fight for the next five to seven years.

01:14:51.000 If I can go out on top, I'd love to do that.

01:14:55.000 I don't think I need to...

01:14:56.000 Carry it too long, too far, and go out on a bad note of a string of brutal losses.

01:15:02.000 I think I want to get that platform, I want to get to the top, and then I want to leave and go do something else, which is this.

01:15:12.000 But man, it's been so cool.

01:15:13.000 Our team in Sierra Leone and our team in Kenya, and now we're about to do it in Rwanda.

01:15:19.000 We did this crowdfunding campaign that we threw up on World Water Day.

01:15:22.000 We're doing it through the rest of the month.

01:15:24.000 But we have started water towers.

01:15:27.000 So basically, we drill a well, and then we have a water tower, which turns into a water kiosk, where people from the community come up to it.

01:15:34.000 They might pay five shillings for a jerry can.

01:15:38.000 So a jerry can's five gallons, they pay five cents.

01:15:40.000 But eventually, all the people in the community, the one in Rwanda we're doing, is going to serve 4,000 people.

01:15:46.000 It's out of school, so the kids will have clean water all throughout the day.

01:15:49.000 But then people come there, and the one in Kenya is funding a school, but the one in Rwanda is going to fund more water wells.

01:15:56.000 So as these people buy water, Clean water, the only clean water around there.

01:16:00.000 That community, the only thing they have to drink, there's a lake that has the cows and everything else drinking out of it.

01:16:07.000 Cow patties are inside the water.

01:16:10.000 And you can see people collecting water at the same time that cows are drinking from it right beside them.

01:16:15.000 People are washing clothes in it.

01:16:17.000 They're washing motorcycles in it.

01:16:18.000 And then that's their drinking water.

01:16:20.000 And so we're putting up this water kiosk where, yeah, we're going to charge them five cents when they get five gallons of clean water, but those are going to turn into multiple water wells throughout the year.

01:16:29.000 And so we're trying to do all these sustainable solutions to where after we do that in Rwanda, we're taking that to the Congo.

01:16:34.000 That'll be close to the soap production facility and the community development center we're going to have, which will have land, water, food solutions.

01:16:41.000 Even the forestry.

01:16:43.000 We've helped replant over 4,000 trees now in the Congo.

01:16:46.000 And it's like because the deforestation is so brutal.

01:16:49.000 So I think it's just sitting back and saying, what do you guys need?

01:16:52.000 Listening and learning that need and saying, okay, where can we fit in?

01:16:55.000 How can we help in this area?

01:16:57.000 Who's a specialist?

01:16:58.000 How can we really make an impact?

01:17:00.000 I think our lane is definitely water.

01:17:02.000 I mean, from that Chief Leome village, or the story that you just saw, Babofi, where he made that knife for you.

01:17:10.000 You can see that water changes everything.

01:17:12.000 And so that's going to be what hubs...

01:17:14.000 That's our hub.

01:17:15.000 That's our lane.

01:17:16.000 And that's what all of the Water 4 teams are doing.

01:17:19.000 But in the Congo, because the pygmies are so vulnerable, we're trying to find the ways to help them come up.

01:17:24.000 And as they come up, other people are watching and looking and they're starting to implement the same kind of things.

01:17:29.000 So it's pretty cool to see that happening.

01:17:33.000 And before I forget, the reason I wanted to show that video was I got you something.

01:17:37.000 This is Leo May's wife.

01:17:38.000 So you have the knife from Leo May.

01:17:41.000 His wife made you this right here.

01:17:45.000 And so because from our second JRE episode, I believe, we funded a water well there in Bobofy.

01:17:53.000 And so she's really talented.

01:17:57.000 I mean, it might not look like too much here, but it's bark cloth.

01:18:03.000 So it's tree bark cloth.

01:18:05.000 And when they take the bark off the trees, fine.

01:18:08.000 But that used to be what they would make their clothing out of.

01:18:12.000 Their clothing, they make other materials out of them.

01:18:15.000 They can make these little kind of carrying cases or backpacks kind of out of it.

01:18:19.000 Do they treat it with something?

01:18:21.000 Like, how do they get it so soft?

01:18:22.000 They pound it down, and I haven't seen the whole process, but I've seen the bark and where they pull it off, and they kind of beat it down and beat it down until it's this, like, cloth.

01:18:32.000 I know that this right here, when I've been doing research, they have those Pygmy, Mbuti Pygmy paintings, That are made out of bark cloth at our National Museum of History in New York.

01:18:43.000 They have a few of these there, and so it's kind of cool to see.

01:18:47.000 I don't know.

01:18:48.000 I just was excited to bring it back to you.

01:18:50.000 I think I got a picture of said painting, and it's Mama Leo May, and she's painting it for you.

01:18:58.000 That's awesome, man.

01:18:59.000 Thank you.

01:19:00.000 Yeah.

01:19:00.000 And thank her, please.

01:19:01.000 I will.

01:19:01.000 That's so cool.

01:19:02.000 I will.

01:19:02.000 They just...

01:19:03.000 When I go back, sometimes they're like, hey...

01:19:05.000 Oh, that's her making it there? 0.99

01:19:06.000 Thank your friends.

01:19:07.000 Yeah.

01:19:08.000 So that one's not the same one.

01:19:10.000 I actually didn't think to...

01:19:12.000 Or I didn't get a picture of it whenever she was painting this one.

01:19:14.000 But I got a picture of her doing some other ones. 0.99

01:19:17.000 That's Mama Swazee. 1.00

01:19:18.000 And she's pretty great at it as well.

01:19:21.000 And so they just...

01:19:24.000 Yeah, I mean, that's a little bowl, little leaves.

01:19:26.000 This paint that you actually have there, they had some leftover black paint, but sometimes on that other photo, they just use like cassava or berries and they beat it up, pound it down and make this paint out of it, but it kind of fades over time.

01:19:41.000 So this one's one where, yeah, that's it right there, where they just...

01:19:46.000 Pound up the stuff and it's part of their culture.

01:19:48.000 It's what they love to do.

01:19:49.000 Kind of how you saw Leo May passing down the farming.

01:19:54.000 And that video was actually San Gi over here from that hand print that you got.

01:19:59.000 It's his grandson.

01:20:01.000 And this is what the women pass down to their girls is how to make the spark cloth and how to paint. 1.00

01:20:08.000 Wow.

01:20:08.000 It's pretty neat, their culture.

01:20:10.000 They just do everything together.

01:20:12.000 They rally around each other.

01:20:13.000 They're happy together.

01:20:15.000 They sing, they dance, but they also suffer together.

01:20:17.000 If one person in the community is lost, even for instance, it might sound weird in our culture, but let's say a mother passes away who's breastfeeding, right?

01:20:27.000 And she passes away, but the baby survives.

01:20:30.000 Some other woman in the village will take the baby up and start taking care of that little one. 1.00

01:20:35.000 There is an adoption in the pygmy culture. 1.00

01:20:39.000 No one needs to be adopted because the community rallies around them.

01:20:43.000 When someone's lost, they all mourn the death together, but then they rally around that family and see how they can all help and put in.

01:20:50.000 So it's pretty cool.

01:20:52.000 I love it.

01:20:52.000 I've learned a lot from them.

01:20:54.000 Well, that's how people used to be, man.

01:20:55.000 That's the original sort of tribal life of human beings.

01:21:00.000 They would all raise each other.

01:21:02.000 Christopher Ryan had this whole...

01:21:05.000 Take on it in Sex at Dawn.

01:21:08.000 And McKenna had a take on it as well, where they were talking about these ancient cultures.

01:21:14.000 Because of these small groups of people, they were much closer.

01:21:19.000 They knew everyone in the community.

01:21:21.000 It was intensely important.

01:21:23.000 And there's a lot of people that think that some of the problems that we deal with today in society are because of this disassociation that we have with our neighbors and we don't have a real sense of community.

01:21:31.000 I mean, I know like two or three of my neighbors and I see them once a year.

01:21:34.000 You know, I say, hi, wave, how's everything, man?

01:21:37.000 Everything cool?

01:21:37.000 All right, good seeing you.

01:21:38.000 But that's it.

01:21:39.000 You know, there's no real community.

01:21:41.000 There's no interaction.

01:21:42.000 There's certainly no contribution as far as like working together to gather food or water or anything like that.

01:21:47.000 And I would imagine that these people were just intensely close.

01:21:51.000 Yeah.

01:21:51.000 Absolutely.

01:21:52.000 That must have been a big part of the attraction to you to them like when they took you in and you were living with them and Yeah, absolutely.

01:22:01.000 I mean, I think the average Mabuti Pygmy village is only 85 to 150 on our 10 villages that we help and have the 3,000 acres of land It's over 300 for each village Do you know about Dunbar's number?

01:22:16.000 Dunbar's number is a number that, I mean it varies, but the number is somewhere around 150 for most people.

01:22:23.000 There's a number of people that you can keep close relationships with.

01:22:26.000 Oh, wow.

01:22:26.000 That you really only have room for 150 people in your head.

01:22:29.000 You essentially have hard drive space.

01:22:30.000 Wow.

01:22:31.000 Yeah, and that seems to be related to ancient tribal communities that people had.

01:22:38.000 That we developed that way.

01:22:39.000 Yeah.

01:22:40.000 We developed these small groups of 50 to 150 plus people.

01:22:44.000 Yeah.

01:22:44.000 And then when you get larger than that, things get weird.

01:22:46.000 Yeah.

01:22:46.000 Well, no, that's so true.

01:22:48.000 Whenever I went through the six-year battle with Oxy and just narcotics or pain pills, I don't know.

01:22:58.000 I would always be able to isolate.

01:23:00.000 Super easy.

01:23:01.000 Because when you're in your home, you're completely alone.

01:23:04.000 And so it's different when you're in a village and with the pygmies, you saw some of those huts, how small they are. 1.00

01:23:13.000 Seriously, in several of them, whenever I'm sleeping, I have to sleep in the center and I have to have my feet out the door because it's so small.

01:23:21.000 But you only go in there when you're going to sleep.

01:23:27.000 Or if you're not feeling good and you need some rest or the sun's right over your head and you're hot, But besides that, your cooking, your kitchen's outside.

01:23:36.000 That's where the people is.

01:23:37.000 That's where you do life, is outside of your home, around the campfire.

01:23:42.000 We call it Campfire University because that's where we've been taken to school from the Pygmies. 1.00

01:23:47.000 That's where they teach us the most about life, is around the campfire, learning their culture, learning about their kids, learning about the hunts, learning about how they make this, make that.

01:23:59.000 And it's where you get to do life together.

01:24:01.000 It's something really, really cool.

01:24:04.000 Honestly, I told them they want to know a little bit about my life, and I told them that I went through drug addiction for six years.

01:24:11.000 And, you know, they don't really struggle with that at all.

01:24:14.000 And then I told them I got really depressed, and I told them I got really sad.

01:24:19.000 I told him that I got so sad that I decided one time to take as many pills as I could and drink half a bottle of Everclear or more and snorted a bunch of coke and just wanted to end it all.

01:24:33.000 So, I mean, I told him that I was suicidal and I won't ever forget how they...

01:24:41.000 How they looked at me almost dumbfounded in a way of like, and then one of the questions the chief asked me said, well, wouldn't hurting yourself only hurt you?

01:24:54.000 And so the whole concept of, I guess what I'm getting to is they had never heard of anyone killing themselves.

01:25:02.000 Like maybe they had heard stories or something like that, but they have never known anybody that actually killed themselves or heard of it.

01:25:08.000 It's not something that their community, their culture, the pygmies kind of untouched out in the forest or even not up in the cities.

01:25:16.000 Like that's just something that they don't struggle with there.

01:25:18.000 They're struggling so much day in and day out with struggles that are so deep and they see their family and they do life together.

01:25:26.000 I think they just have so much more of what we were just talking about, so much more of a support system.

01:25:31.000 People that will rally around them.

01:25:33.000 When you lose a family member, everyone rallies around you.

01:25:37.000 Like, whenever I go to the funerals, it's the worst thing in the world.

01:25:41.000 The sounds...

01:25:42.000 Like, people don't try to compose themselves.

01:25:45.000 They don't try to...

01:25:47.000 Dress the body real nice and have flowers all around.

01:25:49.000 Now, losing loss of life is always tough, always terrible.

01:25:55.000 But there's something we do here in our culture where we try to make it as nice or smooth or almost pretty as possible.

01:26:04.000 You know, the person's dressed really nice and has the flowers and you compose yourself to come there.

01:26:09.000 You gather yourself.

01:26:10.000 You prepare the eulogy.

01:26:12.000 There's a, there's a program when you step in there, people get handed something and you know what's going to happen there.

01:26:18.000 So you kind of can all compose man there.

01:26:21.000 It's just so ugly.

01:26:22.000 It's so raw.

01:26:23.000 It's so real.

01:26:24.000 And it's so like in your face and it just rips your heart open to where people are mourning.

01:26:30.000 I saw Jay Lua, um, whenever Bobbo, I was the one, me and Ben were the ones that told Jay Lua, he's the chief.

01:26:37.000 About his grandson passing away.

01:26:39.000 We were there when it happened.

01:26:41.000 He wasn't around.

01:26:42.000 He was out collecting or gathering.

01:26:45.000 And we met on the same path together and he saw it in our face.

01:26:48.000 He knew Baba was sick, but now he knew that he was gone.

01:26:52.000 And I remember Jay Lawal just falling on his back into this, off the side of the footpath, into this pile of brush, like probably two, three foot tall, where he sunk into it.

01:27:05.000 And he was just squirming on his back.

01:27:08.000 He's in his 60s.

01:27:09.000 And he's watched so many of his grandchildren pass just because they don't have clean water.

01:27:15.000 And seeing him squirming, almost wanting to crawl out of his skin.

01:27:20.000 And so, but...

01:27:22.000 I don't know.

01:27:23.000 I don't want to be a bummer.

01:27:24.000 Just express yourself.

01:27:26.000 Don't worry about that.

01:27:27.000 But then how the whole community, all 150, 200, 300 people that were there, all mourned together.

01:27:36.000 We shared it.

01:27:37.000 I cried in a way that was like...

01:27:40.000 You know, like wiping my tears with everybody because everyone was mourning.

01:27:47.000 Everyone was crying.

01:27:48.000 It wasn't just a few people.

01:27:49.000 It wasn't just his mom and his dad, his mom macho.

01:27:52.000 It wasn't just Jailua.

01:27:54.000 It was the whole village cried together.

01:27:58.000 And so, I don't know, but for me, that makes it seem like I don't know if this, I don't want to make too many connections between our culture because they're completely different or a lot different, but I think here a huge cause of divorce is the loss of a child.

01:28:16.000 But there, it almost unites the parents so much so whenever they lose a little one.

01:28:25.000 And I don't mean to make this comparison, but it's like, I think it's because when they mourn, they truly go to the depths of the darkest place.

01:28:34.000 And they're able to truly almost get it out, if that makes sense.

01:28:38.000 Where when you're at the funeral, you let yourself go.

01:28:42.000 You just let go.

01:28:44.000 And it's okay, however ugly or however you handle it, whatever emotions come, you just ride that wave, if that makes sense.

01:28:52.000 Do you think that because their life is so difficult that life itself becomes more precious and the loss becomes more powerful, more intense, more raw?

01:29:02.000 Wow.

01:29:04.000 Yeah, I needed you to sum that up for sure.

01:29:08.000 Yes, I do.

01:29:10.000 I think whenever you struggle so much, you become so much more appreciative and grateful of life, of every breath you take.

01:29:20.000 Well, that's gotta be connected to their lack of understanding of suicide because our, you know, our idea of what a difficult life is, it's difficult, but there's food and shelter and there's, you know, and really the easiest place to live in the world.

01:29:35.000 All those things connected.

01:29:38.000 Whereas with them, just staying alive is such a struggle and getting water, which is so easy for us.

01:29:46.000 Anybody can walk into any bathroom and any gas stop, turn the water on, water comes out.

01:29:50.000 I mean, water's not hard to get in America.

01:29:53.000 Even with droughts, it's easy to get water. 0.96

01:29:55.000 We water fucking golf courses with millions of gallons of water every day. 0.74

01:30:00.000 Our understanding of what a struggle is is so different. 0.99

01:30:03.000 Yeah, and I think whenever we struggle here, we can go hide away and we don't have to deal with it.

01:30:09.000 We don't have to have conversations about it.

01:30:13.000 We can we can almost escape it.

01:30:15.000 We can escape it with our with our toys with our technology You know we can we can just bury our face in our phone or a computer or sit and watch a movie and like whenever those uncomfortable feelings come up we can try to Ignore them or suppress them if that makes sense.

01:30:31.000 Yeah, and there they're so it's almost man.

01:30:35.000 This is gonna be a weird strange curveball or left turn But it's almost like I've started floating recently.

01:30:42.000 And whenever I go in there into the tank, it's like you have to...

01:30:46.000 You're left alone to your thoughts, right?

01:30:49.000 You don't have that technology.

01:30:50.000 You don't have this.

01:30:51.000 And so you can deal with stuff.

01:30:53.000 And you can try to focus and let go.

01:30:55.000 And for me, it's been really beneficial.

01:30:57.000 And so I don't...

01:30:59.000 I know that sounds weird for me to make that connection.

01:31:01.000 But whenever you're just left alone with your own thoughts, you can go deep.

01:31:07.000 Yeah.

01:31:07.000 And I feel like our culture here, well, okay, if we compare, and I love our culture.

01:31:13.000 I'm not saying there's so much wrong with it, but I feel like there in relationships, you go an inch or two wide and you go a mile deep in the Congo. 0.88

01:31:22.000 You get to know people.

01:31:25.000 And then here, a lot of times, you go a mile wide, but you only scratch the surface.

01:31:30.000 You don't go beneath the topsoil that much.

01:31:33.000 So you do sometimes with few people.

01:31:36.000 There's only few people we trust with that, you know.

01:31:39.000 But it's almost like there, everyone's so open to...

01:31:44.000 To go in deep with one another and because of that you get to know each other better You get to truly hurt when they hurt you get to laugh when they laugh you get to cry when they cry And I mean, I don't I don't have to keep going on about it, but no, please listen, don't apologize.

01:32:00.000 There's a real There's a real argument for the the way that we live right now is not a way that we were designed for Meaning that not that it can't be sustainable or manageable and you can't figure out a way to live a harmonious life in the modern context, but that a lot of people think that we're just,

01:32:18.000 we would naturally fit right in in a tribal environment, that it would feel natural.

01:32:22.000 And a lot of people experience that when they go camping for long stretches of time and they're out in the woods together, you know, for whatever reason.

01:32:29.000 They just decide to...

01:32:31.000 Find a place and live off the land.

01:32:33.000 I mean, that's why I think a lot of those shows like those, um, subsistence living shows like, um, the homesteading.

01:32:40.000 Yeah.

01:32:41.000 Yeah.

01:32:41.000 That's very good.

01:32:42.000 It's a very attractive to people because I think there's a longing in our DNA even where it just, there's a pull.

01:32:51.000 There's a pull to that.

01:32:52.000 Man, I would love to just grow kale and raise chickens and live off the farm.

01:32:56.000 There's a lot of people that feel really, really attracted to that.

01:32:59.000 And I think it's something deep in our being that we're longing for this connection to the real world.

01:33:06.000 We've done an amazing thing creating cities.

01:33:09.000 It's stupendous.

01:33:11.000 It's almost beyond our comprehension because we're a part of it.

01:33:15.000 We're a part of it.

01:33:16.000 It's normal.

01:33:17.000 You get on the subway, you get in your car, you drive through the city.

01:33:20.000 It seems normal.

01:33:21.000 But it's so far removed from every single aspect of our history.

01:33:27.000 It's so new.

01:33:28.000 It's so recent.

01:33:30.000 I think...

01:33:32.000 These people are just more in tune.

01:33:34.000 It's horrible that they have to deal with these situations like the lack of water and toilets and the diseases and all the other struggle.

01:33:44.000 But man, there's a part of what they're doing and the way they're living that just seems like they're more in tune in a natural way.

01:33:51.000 You would think that they would be more depressed and But you heard Leo Mays laugh in that when they asked him about the bananas and he just got tickled.

01:34:02.000 He couldn't hold himself from just laughing and saying, I can't count that much.

01:34:06.000 You take someone from Beverly Hills and say, hey, this is what we got for you.

01:34:09.000 You can grow bananas now. 1.00

01:34:11.000 They're like, fuck you. 1.00

01:34:12.000 How do I get out of here? 1.00

01:34:13.000 First class only.

01:34:15.000 Where's my iPhone?

01:34:16.000 Yeah.

01:34:18.000 It's weird, man, because essentially this life is a temporary ride for all of us involved.

01:34:23.000 No one has ever got out of this thing alive.

01:34:25.000 No one.

01:34:25.000 No one will.

01:34:26.000 It's not going to be you.

01:34:27.000 It's not going to be me.

01:34:28.000 We're not going to make it.

01:34:29.000 No one makes it.

01:34:30.000 No one's ever made it before.

01:34:31.000 No one's ever going to make it.

01:34:32.000 So it's essentially like, what is the quality of your experience while you're here and how many people are you touching?

01:34:38.000 By that life, by that definition, you've lived one of the richest lives that a person could ever live.

01:34:45.000 Thank you.

01:34:45.000 Do you realize that?

01:34:47.000 You trip me out every time I'm around you. 1.00

01:34:48.000 I feel like a piece of shit. 1.00

01:34:50.000 No, I don't want anyone to feel that way at all. 0.99

01:34:52.000 I don't really mean that.

01:34:53.000 I'm kidding, but in a way, you're so selfless in that regard.

01:34:57.000 Well, I just...

01:34:58.000 Okay, if I just connect it back to that, I remember little Jippy.

01:35:02.000 He got about 10...

01:35:05.000 He's Chief Alondo's grandson.

01:35:07.000 Chief Leo May's brother is Chief Alondo.

01:35:11.000 And his grandson, Jippy, had gotten paid basically 10, 12, maximum, probably 14 or 15 peanuts.

01:35:20.000 He worked all day long.

01:35:21.000 He's a 5 or 6 year old child that worked from sunup to sundown.

01:35:25.000 And that's what he got paid was up to 15 peanuts.

01:35:31.000 And so a little handful in his little hand and he came and he sat by me and I just kind of put my arm around him and said, how you doing?

01:35:38.000 And he just instantly like put his hand out for me to have.

01:35:43.000 And like he went like this and he got like half for him and got half for me and just put half of his peanuts in my hand.

01:35:49.000 I'm like, you just worked all day long for that.

01:35:51.000 You know, like, from sun up to sun down, but they're just so incredibly generous.

01:35:55.000 You know, hey, what's mine is yours, and what's yours is...

01:35:58.000 I mean, like, it's fun to kind of sit around the fire sometimes and eat, because, I mean, it's rude in our culture and everything else, but I just enjoyed it whenever people would start eating off my plate, and I'd eat off their plate, and it just kind of becomes part of it.

01:36:14.000 This is how they do it.

01:36:14.000 Or there's just kind of a pile in the middle or big plate, big thing, and it's like, hey, this is what we have.

01:36:21.000 Let's share.

01:36:23.000 Let's make sure we share everything together.

01:36:25.000 Now, sorry to interrupt you, but besides the farming and besides the clean water, what other changes have you witnessed?

01:36:34.000 Okay, so Jippy, which is so cool, he's like my little buddy, getting to watch him grow up, and he's going to be chief one day.

01:36:42.000 They determined that like that young?

01:36:45.000 Yeah, so his father had passed away and he would have become the chief.

01:36:48.000 How do they decide who's the chief and who's not?

01:36:50.000 Is it not an election process or anything?

01:36:53.000 Basically, there is just among the village whenever I think I forget I need to ask Chief Alondo how he got kind of voted in or whatever but he was just the one that showed the leadership qualities the one that everyone followed the one that was most respected the one that was kind of the most knowledgeable or caring that's a huge thing for them who's gonna think about our interest the most and then be strong enough to like be tough whenever he needs to be tough and And so Chief Alano,

01:37:21.000 he's got incredible leadership skills, like just a great guy.

01:37:24.000 He was one of the first ones that bought into the vision for us to come in with the land, water, and food.

01:37:29.000 A lot of people didn't trust us, thinking, oh, they're saying this.

01:37:32.000 And they have those tools that look like they're going to drill wells, but really they might be surveying for gold or diamonds or coltan.

01:37:38.000 Who knows?

01:37:39.000 They're just maybe using us as a cover.

01:37:41.000 But he was one that stood up in the community and was like, no, we believe them.

01:37:44.000 We're going to work with them.

01:37:46.000 And so from that, he's been able to go out and Tell other communities what's happened in their village.

01:37:52.000 And so one of the things that he's able to go do is say how water has changed everything to where they were able to get land to secure that so we could come in and drill the wells for them.

01:38:00.000 Then after that they're able to start farming and then you saw them go in and selling it at the markets to where they can buy clothes for their kids.

01:38:06.000 Well, it's not just about clothes.

01:38:07.000 Little Jippy, last time I was there, getting ready to leave.

01:38:11.000 He's always around, and I had just been able to go for the weekend, and I was only being able to stay there for three days this trip in that village, because we were going to some other places.

01:38:20.000 But I always stop and see him.

01:38:22.000 And so we're leaving, and I don't get to see my little buddy.

01:38:26.000 And I'm like, where's Jippy at?

01:38:27.000 And I go, oh, you'll see him as you go.

01:38:29.000 And so we got in the truck, and we start driving out, and all of a sudden, little Jippy comes out of the schoolhouse, and he's running to us.

01:38:36.000 And I got to get out and give him a hug, tell him bye.

01:38:39.000 But what's so huge is he was the first Mabuti Pygmy ever in school in that region, that area.

01:38:46.000 That they know of.

01:38:47.000 And so from kind of getting a little bit more equal rights, but then also being able to pay for themselves.

01:38:55.000 You know, there's supposed to be a government program where the pygmies can go to school and go for free, but they're like the only ones. 1.00

01:39:01.000 They're kind of like the Native Americans of Congo. 0.88

01:39:05.000 Right.

01:39:07.000 Right.

01:39:10.000 Right.

01:39:19.000 So for him to be able to have food to take to school is a huge thing so that he can sit there.

01:39:24.000 For them to be able to pay the school fees on their own.

01:39:26.000 They didn't take that.

01:39:27.000 They said, no, we don't want the government program saying we can come to school for free.

01:39:31.000 We're going to pay his school fees.

01:39:32.000 He's going to be chief one day.

01:39:33.000 We're investing into him.

01:39:35.000 And so to know that once there's some educated Mabuti Pygmies, that takes away the last excuse that I see for the government to not honor them as true citizens of the country. 1.00

01:39:47.000 They have no representation on the government level.

01:39:50.000 Zero.

01:39:51.000 But there's over 200 tribes there.

01:39:53.000 All of them have representation.

01:39:55.000 But for years, it was because, or for always, it was because they thought they were half man, half animal.

01:40:00.000 Well, now, it's because they say no one's educated.

01:40:04.000 No one's ever graduated from primary school or secondary school.

01:40:08.000 No one's ever graduated with a high school degree.

01:40:10.000 And so until that happens, no, Mabuti Pegme can, or they don't have representation anymore.

01:40:15.000 So we're hoping that as they get schooling, they'll be able to go to the courts and represent themselves and have more rights in their community and culture.

01:40:21.000 I don't know if I've ever told you that, but a real dark part of the pygmy history or Congolese history and what people have done to them, what we have done to them. 1.00

01:40:34.000 1902 to 1906, we had a Mabuti pygmy from the Ituri rainforest right where I've lived and stayed, and we put them in the zoo. 1.00

01:40:41.000 Yeah.

01:40:41.000 Did I say that?

01:40:42.000 Yeah, we did talk about that.

01:40:43.000 I think we talked about it on the podcast, but yeah, it's horrific.

01:40:47.000 Yeah, his name was Otabinga, and we literally fed him bananas in the monkey house at the Bronx Zoo in New York.

01:40:54.000 So we threw him bananas while he lived there with the monkeys.

01:40:57.000 Jesus Christ.

01:40:58.000 And a human being like that.

01:40:59.000 And so, you know, that was over 100 years ago, but it's almost like in those regions where they don't have running water and electricity, And a lot of the education that we do here, some places are kind of stuck in this pocket that's kind of about 100 years back.

01:41:15.000 And so some of that mentality still exists.

01:41:18.000 So this could be the beginning steps in just completely changing their culture.

01:41:23.000 Mm-hmm.

01:41:24.000 Educating them.

01:41:25.000 That's what we're seeing.

01:41:25.000 Having a chief come out and say, this is the first official ever land that Mabuti Pygmies own in our government's history.

01:41:33.000 This is the first water well, clean water source ever among the Mabuti Pygmies that they've ever owned. 1.00

01:41:38.000 First time they're ever farming for themselves and going to the market and selling it.

01:41:42.000 That had local radio station.

01:41:44.000 There's only like one, and it's in the rainforest a few hours away.

01:41:48.000 But they came out to the market to do a story With Chief Leomay and them because they were actually selling their produce.

01:41:54.000 And they're like, what?

01:41:56.000 Pygmies have always been hunter-gatherers. 1.00

01:41:57.000 Well, the deforestation has made it basically impossible for them to completely sustain themselves off hunting and gathering.

01:42:03.000 Animals are scared and skittish and they run away from the trees that when they fall, sound like thunder going through the forest.

01:42:09.000 So it makes it really hard to go hunt and be able to feed a whole tribe, you know, a whole village.

01:42:16.000 And so, yeah, to be able to say, this is the first time they're farming and selling this.

01:42:21.000 They're getting more and more, I don't know, it's like they're catching up with the people around them.

01:42:28.000 And we want them to do it at a slow pace that they want, so keep everything culturally sound for them.

01:42:33.000 But what they do want to bring into their culture, we want to rally behind that.

01:42:37.000 Wow.

01:42:39.000 That's powerful, dude.

01:42:40.000 You're there at the steps of their culture changing.

01:42:44.000 I mean, you're right there.

01:42:46.000 Well, it's been changing or it's been corrupted so much because of the outside influences coming in with the chainsaws that are the mechanized ones.

01:42:58.000 Where they can just start cutting the trees down at such a crazy rate.

01:43:03.000 Yeah, I've seen those monster machines.

01:43:04.000 They're terrifying.

01:43:05.000 Absolutely.

01:43:06.000 They strip the bark off of it all in one movement, cut it down.

01:43:09.000 Oh man, isn't that nuts, some of those?

01:43:10.000 It's scary.

01:43:11.000 Yeah.

01:43:12.000 It's like science fiction movie stuff.

01:43:14.000 Mm-hmm.

01:43:15.000 Yeah, so they have that because a lot of it's not as advanced as that, but they have guys just constantly, day in and day out, that it's almost like ants following each other through the forest, but they have bicycles and they throw these long 20-foot planks of mahogany.

01:43:34.000 I think it's ebony, that other really heavy hardwood.

01:43:39.000 And they're just taking those out of the forest all day long, just in lines.

01:43:43.000 There's a line of people going with empty bicycles, and there's a line coming back out with it full of wood.

01:43:48.000 And they just are legally deforesting, putting it in the back of these 18-wheelers that normally have two trailers on the back of them, or two containers on the back, and they fill them to the top.

01:44:17.000 Oh no.

01:44:25.000 And then it just completely caved in and crashed.

01:44:28.000 Wow, look at that bridge. 0.94

01:44:29.000 That bridge is ridiculous. 0.98

01:44:31.000 Yeah. 0.51

01:44:31.000 And so that was built in... 0.51

01:44:32.000 How did they get across that?

01:44:34.000 They drove across that?

01:44:36.000 They were driving.

01:44:36.000 Was there planks on top of it or something?

01:44:39.000 Yeah, wooden planks.

01:44:40.000 And that's what we would drive across all the time to go out and drill our wells and stuff.

01:44:44.000 But the guy's legally logging and carrying way too much weight.

01:44:48.000 Legally?

01:44:48.000 Is that what you're saying?

01:44:49.000 Illegally.

01:44:50.000 Illegally.

01:44:50.000 Oh, so they're illegally logging.

01:44:51.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:44:52.000 I thought you were saying legally.

01:44:53.000 No, sorry.

01:44:54.000 Illegally.

01:44:55.000 Oh, man.

01:44:55.000 So what kind of reinforcement do they have in their laws, like the deforestation laws?

01:45:00.000 Basically, nothing.

01:45:02.000 I mean, they say it's illegal, but everyone turns a blind eye because they're getting paid off the bribes.

01:45:07.000 There's a lot of money involved in hardwood, especially those rare African hardwoods.

01:45:13.000 And that's where the rubber boom basically started was Congo by the Belgians, King Leopold II. There's a crazy book written about him, King Leopold's ghost.

01:45:26.000 We're good to go.

01:45:45.000 Water and buildings and they're advancing so much.

01:45:48.000 And he would go on these public campaigns basically talking about all the good they're doing in the Congo.

01:45:53.000 But basically you can see these terrible, brutal pictures of basically a father, I think, reaching out to his child's hand that's on the ground because they took a machete and cut his kid's hand off.

01:46:05.000 And he's reaching out to grab it and he doesn't have hands because they had already cut his hands off too.

01:46:11.000 And so it's just been since...

01:46:14.000 It's just been brutal there always because it was the rubber and ivory boom. 0.99

01:46:19.000 And then after that, now it's the rare hardwoods, the gold, the coal tan, the uranium, which they use to make cell phones with.

01:46:27.000 Yeah, it conducts electricity at a really high rate, but it stays cool so it doesn't overheat or blow up on you.

01:46:32.000 And I think 80% of the world's coltan comes from the Congo and basically all of its illegal mining ran by rebels and everything else.

01:46:40.000 Yeah, that's the dirty secret about people's phones and a lot of the electronics that we use.

01:46:45.000 Yeah.

01:46:47.000 Yeah, but it's been an incredible journey to be part of because I couldn't have dreamed this.

01:46:55.000 I wouldn't have thought it up or didn't have it on my goals list, didn't have it on my radar as a kid.

01:47:02.000 Yeah, but you're so perfect for it.

01:47:03.000 That's what's so crazy.

01:47:04.000 It seems like it's kind of changed you as a human being and solidified you in a lot of ways.

01:47:09.000 Like the conviction that you fight with, it's not just that of a competitor.

01:47:13.000 It's like a man with a... 0.93

01:47:16.000 Not even just a goal, like a destiny.

01:47:19.000 It's very strange.

01:47:20.000 You know, you're doing something that's bigger than most people can even comprehend.

01:47:26.000 And I feel like the weight of that is pushing you forward in this really incredible way to watch.

01:47:33.000 I don't know anybody like you, man.

01:47:36.000 You're the only guy I know like you.

01:47:38.000 You're the only guy I know like you, my friend.

01:47:40.000 So interesting and so many awesome people that you've been able to interview and have them pour into your life and you pour into theirs.

01:47:49.000 And because of that, there's so many...

01:47:52.000 Cool things that are happening, man.

01:47:53.000 I mean, honestly, I'm just grateful to have your friendship and have this opportunity to share because it's helped out so much us be able to do this.

01:48:03.000 Wow, I'm very grateful as well.

01:48:06.000 Very grateful as well.

01:48:07.000 And I also feel like this, I mean, I can't even take credit for this thing.

01:48:10.000 This thing made itself.

01:48:11.000 Yeah, how did this turn into this?

01:48:13.000 I don't know.

01:48:14.000 I don't know what this thing is. 0.77

01:48:15.000 This thing, I just have to show up and try not to fuck it up. 0.72

01:48:18.000 That's what I try to do.

01:48:19.000 I try to show up and not fuck it up.

01:48:21.000 Yeah, but it's so nice.

01:48:22.000 Oh, you know what?

01:48:23.000 The float tank center that I go to in Oklahoma, it's called Float OKC. On my first, no, second time in there, they were like, oh, you didn't check the box of how you heard of this?

01:48:33.000 And it was like friend, family, this or that, and then Joe Rogan.

01:48:38.000 Because they started up because of you, and they were talking about, hey, there's probably 20 or 30 in the country before Joe started talking about it on the podcast, and now it's just grown so much.

01:48:48.000 There's hundreds of them.

01:48:48.000 It's crazy.

01:48:49.000 I think there's over 300. Yeah, people say, do you have a piece of those?

01:48:51.000 I'm like, nope.

01:48:52.000 No, good, good.

01:48:54.000 Keep going.

01:48:54.000 I don't want any money.

01:48:56.000 More power to them.

01:48:57.000 I think it's an amazing way to change the way you look at the world and see yourself.

01:49:01.000 Be alone with your thoughts.

01:49:03.000 And I just think it's one of the best tools for human development.

01:49:07.000 That's awesome.

01:49:08.000 I just think it's incredible.

01:49:09.000 I was shocked when more people didn't know about it.

01:49:12.000 I had one in my house in 2002. Wow.

01:49:16.000 Somewhere around there.

01:49:17.000 Look at that.

01:49:18.000 Yeah, 2003. That's awesome.

01:49:19.000 One of the reasons why I got this house Was because it had a basement.

01:49:24.000 And I'm like, oh, perfect place for a tank. 0.98

01:49:26.000 I'm like, you know, I look at houses all fucked up. 0.99

01:49:29.000 I'm like, do I have enough room in the backyard to shoot my bow? 0.99

01:49:31.000 Yes.

01:49:32.000 Is there a tank room?

01:49:33.000 I mean, that's like how I look at houses now.

01:49:35.000 That's cool.

01:49:36.000 So how do you, if it's okay, how do you use, I floated eight times now, and I've finally done a two-hour float, which was...

01:49:44.000 I think a lot more beneficial doing it a little bit longer.

01:49:47.000 That's the game changer.

01:49:48.000 Oh man, that was awesome.

01:49:49.000 And then, but Wednesday before my fight on Friday, March 3rd, I went in and I had this intention where Neil from Florida KC was like, hey, why don't you instead of just rushing in here from training or rushing in here from the office at Water 4,

01:50:05.000 like come in 30 minutes early, kind of sit down and Chill, close your eyes, set an intention, and then do it.

01:50:13.000 And I came in and I had watched a documentary called Float Nation.

01:50:17.000 And it was cool because it was like an hour, hour and a half, and it showed a lot of different things, but it showed some scientific stuff of...

01:50:25.000 Of sports psychologists and basically visualization.

01:50:28.000 And then I've done some more research.

01:50:29.000 And there's this place in Tulsa that has some brain doctors.

01:50:33.000 I mean doctors that are researching neuroscience and different stuff.

01:50:36.000 But they're finally doing a clinical study with people with anxiety and depression.

01:50:40.000 It's finally fully funded.

01:50:42.000 And the guy was talking about it and was saying that basically the same exact results that anti-anxiety medicine has...

01:50:55.000 We're good to go.

01:50:59.000 We're good to go.

01:51:03.000 We're good to go.

01:51:15.000 Then I got, and I was drilling the moves I wanted to do in the fight.

01:51:18.000 Then I went into the tank, and right before that, so I was drilling early that morning, everything that I wanted to do in the fight, kind of visualizing before I went into the tank.

01:51:30.000 Then when I came out, or before I got in the tank, after training, I started to watch fight film on him, see how he's moving.

01:51:37.000 And then I went into the tank and I was able to just think about what he's going to do, think about what I'm going to do, how I'm going to implement it.

01:51:43.000 And then it's nuts.

01:51:45.000 The only difference was I got two big throws instead of one big throw.

01:51:49.000 In the vision, I had one throw.

01:51:51.000 And then in the fight, I had two big throws, but the ground and pound straight into the arm triangle. 0.95

01:51:54.000 Exactly what I had been envisioning.

01:51:56.000 So when you say personal development, I'm like, man, I get it.

01:51:59.000 Like so how do you do it?

01:52:00.000 What do you I mean?

01:52:03.000 I don't know if that makes sense like I'm wanting to learn how to go deep with it Just let go and use it as a tool of personal development Yeah, the more often you can get into it the more you get relaxed and the more you can sort of slip into that comfortable state of Not feeling the water or feeling the air and just being in your mind see nothing feel nothing released from your body and And then I'll either go in there with ideas,

01:52:28.000 like maybe I'll go in there.

01:52:29.000 I've gone over jujitsu in there.

01:52:32.000 I've gone over different martial arts techniques in there where you sort of visualize movement.

01:52:36.000 But a lot of it I use, I'll go over material, like I'll have ideas.

01:52:41.000 Sometimes it fucks up my float where I have an idea that I can't let go.

01:52:45.000 Like I have to set something up where I have a voice-activated recorder inside the float tank where I can talk.

01:52:52.000 But part of me doesn't want to talk while I'm in there.

01:52:54.000 I just want to be alone with my thoughts because I think when you talk, it'll take you out of it.

01:52:59.000 But there's some ideas that don't want to escape me.

01:53:02.000 Because ideals are slippery, man.

01:53:04.000 You have a great idea.

01:53:06.000 Sometimes I'll have a great idea when I'm in bed, and I'm like, I'll remember that.

01:53:10.000 I don't remember it ever. 0.99

01:53:11.000 Like, you fucking ever. 0.96

01:53:13.000 I might remember one out of ten that I think I'm gonna remember. 0.99

01:53:16.000 So I'm probably gonna have to figure out some way to record things while I'm in the tank.

01:53:20.000 But for me, you know, it depends on what I'm trying to do.

01:53:24.000 Just trying to just be balanced.

01:53:26.000 Think about life.

01:53:27.000 Think about my behavior.

01:53:28.000 Think about my interaction with people.

01:53:31.000 You know, do I have as much energy and appreciation as I should?

01:53:36.000 Do I have as much gratitude as I should?

01:53:39.000 You know, I want to I just want to optimize my thought process, you know, and I'm definitely not claiming that I do or that I always have it right.

01:53:48.000 I definitely don't.

01:53:49.000 It's an ongoing process and that's one of the realities of being a person.

01:53:52.000 The idea of the perfect person, it just doesn't exist and I think it's a bad model to strive for and instead you should strive for doing your best whenever you can, as much as you can.

01:54:04.000 And I think that reviewing your thoughts and reviewing your whole mental process is a very important part of optimization about being your best and just I think it's one of the rare moments where you're actually alone with your thoughts,

01:54:22.000 where there's no influence of the body, the distractions of the body, just even the weight of sitting down, feeling your butt on the chair, your elbows on this desk.

01:54:34.000 All those things are factors and they're being calculated by your mind.

01:54:39.000 The analogy that I always use is if you and I were having this conversation, but right next to us was a jackhammer, it would be super distracting.

01:54:45.000 But that's just input.

01:54:46.000 That jackhammer is just profound input.

01:54:49.000 And I think that everything is input.

01:54:52.000 Social cues, looking at people, sounds, feeling, touch, gravity.

01:54:57.000 All those things are input.

01:54:59.000 That is going into the mind that your mind has to calculate.

01:55:02.000 In the absence of any input, whether it's physical touch, you feel like you're flying through space, you feel zero gravity, you don't feel the water because it's the same temperature as your skin, you're floating in it, it's total silence, total darkness, in the absence of that...

01:55:15.000 I think your brain becomes super powered.

01:55:18.000 I think it becomes super charged.

01:55:20.000 And I think you get to see things in a much clearer way.

01:55:22.000 And I've seen myself at fault when I thought it was innocent.

01:55:26.000 I've seen myself happy and fulfilled when I thought it was longing.

01:55:32.000 It's given me a much more balanced perspective and a better way of addressing the realities of the complexities of life.

01:55:41.000 Man, that's great.

01:55:43.000 That's awesome.

01:55:44.000 It's a powerful tool, man. 0.93

01:55:45.000 It was weird to me that around 2002, when I really started talking about it, that nobody knew what the fuck it was. 0.88

01:55:51.000 I was like, how is this a weird... 0.93

01:55:53.000 How am I the guy who's talking about this?

01:55:55.000 How's the UFC commentator the guy who's talking about floating?

01:55:59.000 It just didn't make any sense to me.

01:56:01.000 Yeah.

01:56:01.000 No, I don't think I... I mean, you had talked about it, and I knew about it, but it wasn't until I got in the tank and came out of the tank for the first time that then I got it.

01:56:14.000 It was like, oh man, this is awesome.

01:56:17.000 And the physical aspects of it, the way the magnesium makes your body feel and the looseness of the being in zero gravity environment, what feels like zero gravity, everything gets loose.

01:56:28.000 It just relaxes, the back relaxes, the arms, the knees, the neck, everything just gets loose in there and you come out just feeling good.

01:56:35.000 You want to hug people.

01:56:36.000 Oh, yeah.

01:56:37.000 No, that's exactly how I came out.

01:56:39.000 I came out and had a smile from ear to ear.

01:56:42.000 When I came out of it, they're like, oh, you have that post-float glow.

01:56:44.000 And I actually gave the guy a hug.

01:56:46.000 I didn't even know his name, but gave him a big hug.

01:56:49.000 And it was so cool, man.

01:56:50.000 And it's neat.

01:56:52.000 The float community seems like...

01:56:55.000 Like, everyone just chill.

01:56:57.000 Everyone has a deeper appreciation for life.

01:57:01.000 That might be too much, but it seems like everyone's got a deeper appreciation for life where they just...

01:57:05.000 I don't know.

01:57:07.000 I think there's something into what you're saying.

01:57:08.000 It sounds pretentious.

01:57:10.000 Yeah, it does.

01:57:10.000 But you're right.

01:57:11.000 There is something there.

01:57:13.000 I know what you're saying.

01:57:13.000 It's like saying that...

01:57:15.000 I don't know.

01:57:16.000 There's something special about it.

01:57:17.000 And I think a big part of what that something special is, is the alleviation of tension.

01:57:22.000 And I think tension, much like inflammation causes a lot of diseases and a lot of disorders that people have pertaining to diet and that inflammation causes like what you were talking about with your celiacs.

01:57:34.000 Oh yeah, absolutely.

01:57:35.000 I mean that is a lot of it is based on inflammation, right?

01:57:37.000 Right.

01:57:37.000 I think tension is, in many ways, the physical tension is also another real boundary to comfort.

01:57:47.000 And that physical tension is alleviated greatly when you're in that tank.

01:57:51.000 And I think when you're more comfortable, you're more relaxed.

01:57:54.000 When you're more relaxed, you're more open.

01:57:55.000 When you're more open, you're more loving.

01:57:57.000 I think all those things sort of cascade.

01:57:59.000 You know, they feed on each other and they help. 1.00

01:58:02.000 And when a tense person that's, like, stressful, like, fuck, fuck, fuck, you know, goddammit! 1.00

01:58:06.000 You know, it's really hard to, like, be calm and kind. 1.00

01:58:10.000 You know, it's like you're so wound up.

01:58:12.000 I think that thing removes a lot of the physical aspects of being wound up.

01:58:17.000 And then on top of that, the deep meditative effects of being in that tank, especially if you go into it like you did with a vision or a direction and a thought to work on.

01:58:30.000 I think it does wonders for your thought process.

01:58:33.000 Yeah.

01:58:33.000 I mean, I'm still learning about it because the first couple times I was just trying to just wipe my mind clean and coming out completely stress-free, feeling completely stressed, at least, was awesome.

01:58:46.000 And then going in there with an intention and with a goal, with a fight just a couple days away.

01:58:51.000 I don't know that this is what happened, but in training, I had been feeling great, but then it felt like something just turned on or started firing where it connected the mental visualization to the physical of actually going in there and doing it the exact way that I saw it.

01:59:07.000 Was something that just kind of blew my mind.

01:59:10.000 It was cool to see that happen.

01:59:12.000 Because you'd want to see the match or the fight a hundred times in your head before you ever go out there and do it.

01:59:17.000 I mean, not put things in it to where if it goes bad or if it doesn't go exactly your way in the fight that then you freak out during the fight.

01:59:24.000 But you want to have a goal and an intention and know what you're going to do in there.

01:59:27.000 I think that's probably what Conor did when he was fighting Aldo.

01:59:30.000 He knew he was going to go in there and end it quick.

01:59:33.000 And he saw that happening.

01:59:34.000 And so, not saying...

01:59:36.000 I don't want to put words in his mouth.

01:59:37.000 Do you remember when he talked about it after the Eddie Alvarez fight?

01:59:40.000 He said, I had a vision of me standing here with the second belt. 0.93

01:59:43.000 Like, where the fuck is me other belt? 0.98

01:59:45.000 He's like really upset. 0.99

01:59:46.000 Like, he's like, I visualized this.

01:59:48.000 I want it.

01:59:49.000 And then Tyron Woodley, of all people.

01:59:51.000 They had to give his belt, right?

01:59:52.000 Oh, it's really cool that they did that.

01:59:54.000 That Tyron allowed that to happen.

01:59:56.000 Kudos to him.

01:59:57.000 But that...

01:59:59.000 The visualization of a goal is very important to solidifying this idea of what that goal is in your mind.

02:00:09.000 There's been studies done on visualization as far as athletics and skill learning, and some people believe it is as important as physical practice.

02:00:21.000 Which is kind of crazy, you know?

02:00:23.000 Yeah, no, I can see that.

02:00:25.000 I mean, Kenny Munday, who's been involved in the MMA community quite a lot, he was my high school wrestling coach, and he told me to go home, write a goal, put it somewhere you can see it.

02:00:34.000 So I wrote down, he told me to write down state champ, but I wrote down national champ, and I put it above my bed.

02:00:40.000 And then over, you know, working with him, training, getting some wrestling moves, I put a step around body lock on the left, and I put a I think?

02:01:12.000 And so I totally get it.

02:01:14.000 And I need to be more conscious of it and dive even deeper into it because I'm like you.

02:01:19.000 I agree that, or at least I can see the point and how it's valid that the mental focus and energy and visualizing is pretty much just as important as actually physically doing it.

02:01:29.000 It's huge.

02:01:29.000 And all of them together are really what it's all about.

02:01:32.000 It's none of the, no aspect.

02:01:35.000 Yeah, no aspect can be ignored.

02:01:37.000 I got to get out of here soon.

02:01:39.000 Is there anything else you want to tell people about or wrap this up?

02:01:42.000 Man, we can get to wrapping it up, but real quick, we have two goals going on right now.

02:01:48.000 At Water4.org, we're doing a World Water Day campaign.

02:01:52.000 We threw up a goal to raise, it's an audacious goal to do that water tank, water tower, water kiosk system.

02:01:59.000 It's going to serve 4,000 people and then create more water wells.

02:02:02.000 It's a $50,000 goal, but we've already raised 35. Someone yesterday gave 25 grand to it.

02:02:09.000 And so we've got about a week left, and we're hoping to get another 15, because if that happens, we're able to really make that sustainable, that team there in Rwanda.

02:02:22.000 So for that, people go to water4.org?

02:02:25.000 Yeah, water4.org.

02:02:26.000 If they go to my social media, water4.org, and then it's like campaign.

02:02:30.000 It's our World Water Day campaign.

02:02:31.000 I think I have it up right now on my social media, on Twitter and on Instagram.

02:02:36.000 It's the link, like the website or the link in the bio.

02:02:40.000 It's the actual campaign link.

02:02:42.000 So if you just go to at the big pygmy on Instagram or Twitter, you can just click right there and get right to the campaign.

02:02:48.000 And yeah, and for people that can give one time, that's where you can give one time.

02:02:54.000 And if you want, we're trying to make us sustainable here.

02:02:57.000 And so if we had people that bought in and did $25 a month, over the course of a year, you'd give 15 people clean water for the rest of their lives.

02:03:06.000 And the reason that is is because we train up the locals to go out and be able to repair the wells and always be able to serve the community.

02:03:11.000 And so $25 a month goes a real long way.

02:03:15.000 And yeah, so brother, I appreciate you so much.

02:03:18.000 I appreciate you too, man.

02:03:19.000 It's always a pleasure having you in here.

02:03:21.000 And thank you very much for the gifts.

02:03:22.000 And please tell your pygmy family, thank you for this.

02:03:25.000 I'm going to definitely have this framed.

02:03:27.000 Absolutely, man.

02:03:28.000 Justin Ren, ladies and gentlemen.

02:03:31.000 See you guys soon.

02:03:32.000 Bye!

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 24, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #937 - Justin Wren

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Transcript