The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #114 with Rickson Gracie

00:00:12.000 Always good to see you and it was good to talk to you before the podcast we were talking about how you go into the cold plunge with a snorkel tell me about that yes the The cold water shower,

00:00:31.000 the ice water, has always been very helpful for me in terms of controlling emotions and feel peaceful in hell.

00:00:40.000 So I was doing it on the ice bath, but I always put a snorkel and put my head under the water.

00:00:48.000 Because if you keep your head off the water, It becomes very physical, very uncomfortable, but it doesn't hit the emotional aspect.

00:00:56.000 You don't feel like you're going to die because you don't feel the fear on your face, the discomfort in your ears and your head, which brings a different dimension of terrifying feelings.

00:01:08.000 So I was putting the snorkel and getting under the water and breathing.

00:01:21.000 When I achieved the calmness in my heart and lungs, I was ready to leave the water.

00:01:27.000 I don't stay there for 10, 15 minutes.

00:01:29.000 I stay there for 1, 2, 3 minutes at the most until I feel very peaceful.

00:01:34.000 And because for me it was more like spiritual than actually physical.

00:01:40.000 I'm not there to treat micro traumas or something.

00:01:43.000 It was more to give me the sense of Ready to die at any point and feel like if you stay too long under the water, you're going to die.

00:01:50.000 So you have to be peaceful and at the same time aware and develop courage, develop calmness, develop spiritual surrender.

00:02:02.000 For me, it's everything I need to perform well.

00:02:06.000 And so you started doing cold water therapy a long time ago.

00:02:11.000 I mean, it was obviously in the movie Choke when you went into that frozen river.

00:02:15.000 Yes.

00:02:16.000 When did you start doing that?

00:02:19.000 Soon I felt I have to develop some kind of terrifying experiences to make my spiritual...

00:02:27.000 Mind become comfortable.

00:02:29.000 So, big wave surf is always something which terrified me and I was exposing myself to the ocean to understand the motion of the ocean and be comfortable in this kind of discomfortable situation.

00:02:42.000 Also, cold water and other things I always do.

00:02:48.000 And this was just always a part of developing yourself for fighting, developing yourself just for overall life?

00:02:57.000 My life is a very unique one because since I started to understand my status of representing the family through jiu-jitsu, I put myself against the unknown, which is no weight division,

00:03:12.000 no time limits, no rules, No size.

00:03:18.000 So all those unpredictable aspects give me something which is different than just a sport-like lifestyle.

00:03:25.000 I was living more the life of a guy who is ready to anything, anytime.

00:03:31.000 So that kind of preparation requires not only the mental and the technical preparation, but also the spiritual preparation.

00:03:42.000 And sometimes, spiritually speaking, you have to understand how to accept things, how to surrender things, and be above their physicality or actually the fear of dying.

00:03:55.000 And did you develop these concepts on your own?

00:03:58.000 Did you recognize that you needed to strengthen these aspects of your mind and your body as you were going through this journey?

00:04:06.000 Yes, yes, definitely, because If you're going to fight somebody, you don't know who it is, what technique he knows, what size he has, when he's going to fight you.

00:04:17.000 So it's all unpredictable.

00:04:18.000 It's always unknown.

00:04:20.000 And you have to be spiritually strong to accept the unknown comfortably.

00:04:26.000 So my life was preparing myself for something I could not even expect what it is.

00:04:31.000 It's just be ready for anything.

00:04:34.000 And that's required for me to start bringing scenarios and situations for me to become comfortable in these kind of situations, totally unpredictable.

00:04:44.000 So I like to use nature as a friend of the ocean, the rivers, the cold.

00:04:51.000 I like to use the experience of breathing when I was young, with 12 years old.

00:04:58.000 I was practicing with adults at the academy.

00:05:01.000 So they take care of me.

00:05:03.000 They play with me.

00:05:04.000 And one blue belt, strong guy, got me on a headlock, which normally you have defense for it.

00:05:11.000 But because I was a kid, I was tired, and the guy was strong, I could not escape, and I tap.

00:05:16.000 And I got so upset with the tapping because I knew it was not something I should do, technically speaking.

00:05:25.000 So I went home.

00:05:27.000 I stretch myself on the edge of a carpet and ask my brother Hollis to roll me up in the carpet in 110 degrees humid Rio de Janeiro.

00:05:38.000 And I was stressed, I mean suffocated for a little while because I told him, just let me get out of here in 10 minutes.

00:05:47.000 So the first and second minute was terrifying.

00:05:50.000 I was hot.

00:05:51.000 I could not feel the air.

00:05:53.000 And I started putting my mind on the ocean breeze, flying with seagulls and get breeze on my face and start to be calm.

00:06:01.000 After 10 minutes, my brother unfolded me.

00:06:03.000 I was like a burrito.

00:06:06.000 And then I passed that experience.

00:06:13.000 Somehow, I passed through.

00:06:15.000 In the same year, I did three more times.

00:06:17.000 And to the point I was getting rolled on the carpet, feeling nothing, stay waiting the time and leave the carpet.

00:06:24.000 So I was fixing myself emotionally with the ways I could feel like was the options I have, how I can suffocate myself and not die.

00:06:34.000 So I was putting myself in some kind of obstacles just to feel comfortable.

00:06:38.000 And after that, I never felt the panic and I felt fighting anymore.

00:06:43.000 And a lot of that panic can be resolved with another thing that you specialize in, which is breathing exercises.

00:06:53.000 I feel like the big difference I did on myself to be able to capture more experience emotionally and also spiritually and also physically was breathing.

00:07:07.000 The learning of breathing for me was the huge Because up to that point, I was an athlete, I was training forever, I was running, I was doing everything I could do, but never with the feeling of full potential.

00:07:23.000 When I start to learn how to really function in the breathing system, I start to understand, because you can spend seven days without food, you can spend three days without water, but five minutes without breathing, you're dead.

00:07:39.000 So learning how to function properly your breathing is not something you're going to learn when you're born. 0.99

00:07:45.000 Because when you're born, you get slapped on your butt. 0.98

00:07:50.000 And then you're alive and well to follow your life. 0.99

00:07:54.000 But it's much more than just...

00:07:57.000 It's the diaphragmatic breathing which improves.

00:08:01.000 Like if I breathe wrong...

00:08:09.000 If I breathe right, wrong.

00:08:21.000 Short breathing.

00:08:22.000 Yeah, because just on the top of your lungs.

00:08:24.000 Right.

00:08:25.000 When you use the diaphragmatic breathing, you're able to bring the air to the lower part, to the back part of your lungs, which triples the amount of air.

00:08:34.000 So when you're expert in moving your diaphragmatic breathing, use your diaphragm effectively, you hyperventilate in a way you may get exhausted physically, but your brain is still sharp enough to get the intelligence,

00:08:51.000 the sharpness, the enlightenment you need, even when you're Like, fading away in muscle, speaking, your brain is still cool and functioning. 0.89

00:09:02.000 Because normally, when you start to get tired, you start to get fading your brain, you start to make poor decisions, you become a little stupid, because there's not enough blood for everything. 0.62

00:09:14.000 But if you know how hyperventilate, you become much better.

00:09:18.000 In terms of absorbing, getting, fixing your physical, understand your mental, and be able also to use the spiritual.

00:09:28.000 When did you learn this stuff?

00:09:30.000 It was just a time developed to my passion, which was representing the family, representing the jiu-jitsu.

00:09:37.000 And I have no instructors, you know, no mentors in terms...

00:09:41.000 Orlando Cani was my mentor in breathing, which I'm grateful for life.

00:09:46.000 And after his experience, I become effective and know how to breathe and meditate and move and become much more connected with my spiritual elements.

00:09:58.000 What was Orlando's specialty?

00:10:00.000 What did he do?

00:10:01.000 He was an army pentathlon champion in 1965. He was a yoga instructor, and he started to develop the biogynastica, which was an element of combining movements like an eagle.

00:10:16.000 Not like a yoga with postures and breathing, with also moves and breathing.

00:10:21.000 Sometimes you fast, sometimes you calm, sometimes you peaceful, sometimes you explosive, sometimes you're recruiting full power and keeping for longer.

00:10:33.000 Different practice to give you the sense of incorporating breathing in your functional life, not exactly stop every tank, be in a posture and breathe, but Fighting and breathe, making love and breathe, and meditate and breathe,

00:10:51.000 sleeping, how to breathe to get a full, relaxed, quick.

00:10:55.000 So all the functional aspects to use breathing in your favor.

00:10:59.000 And so he was a yoga instructor in this, do you call it Gymnastica Natural?

00:11:04.000 Is that what it's called?

00:11:05.000 Gymnastica Natural was, he developed, but he lost the rights to use that name.

00:11:11.000 Okay.

00:11:12.000 His name now is Biogynastica.

00:11:15.000 Biogynastica.

00:11:15.000 He is the same master who teaches the Ginastica Natural But the guy is still the name from him.

00:11:22.000 So now he was Biogynastica.

00:11:24.000 It's a dirty world out there. 0.95

00:11:26.000 Yes, very dirty.

00:11:28.000 But he taught you the yoga?

00:11:31.000 It's more of a movement-based system.

00:11:34.000 Yes.

00:11:35.000 But you do a lot of traditional yoga moves as well, right?

00:11:39.000 Not exactly.

00:11:40.000 My mother taught me, I mean, she took me to that yoga classes.

00:11:45.000 And I didn't like much because the postures, the suffering, The flexibility was just there for me to understand my discomfort, but it doesn't give me too much, a good experience.

00:11:56.000 So I didn't like it and stopped.

00:11:57.000 Didn't give you a good experience, how so?

00:12:03.000 After the experience with Orlando, I felt like everything else was not good because yoga is a great practice.

00:12:11.000 Don't misunderstand me.

00:12:13.000 But for me, I expect something more dynamic.

00:12:17.000 I expect something more like Actually teach me how to apply breathing to functioning, not exactly how to breathe to become more flexible or how to breathe to resist the spiritual pain.

00:12:31.000 Yoga put you in a position and expect you to work with your mind.

00:12:37.000 The biogynastica puts you in a situation where you have to jump. 0.74

00:12:41.000 So, how is the proper breathing for you to jump?

00:12:44.000 How is the proper breathing for you to relax?

00:12:46.000 How is the proper breathing for you to fight?

00:12:48.000 How is the proper breathing for you to swim, to surf?

00:12:52.000 In every aspect, in every sport, we have always different aspects of breathing.

00:12:57.000 You see boxers, choo, choo, choo, choo.

00:12:59.000 You see tennis players, choo, choo, choo, choo, because they excel when they breathe.

00:13:05.000 They have different ways to breed.

00:13:07.000 I developed, in a very high level, breedings for fighting and for surfing, which are things I love to do.

00:13:14.000 But if I was a soccer player, I would have a different approach for breeding. 0.56

00:13:18.000 If I was gymnastics, whatever activity you have is going to be always a breeding who fits properly.

00:13:28.000 Did other members of the family adopt these practices with you?

00:13:32.000 No, not really.

00:13:34.000 But that seems like it would make sense if they did that.

00:13:36.000 If I was looking at the guy who represented the family, who was the best fighter in the family, I would assume that other people would follow whatever he's doing.

00:13:47.000 Yes, supposed to be, but sometimes this either ego or something.

00:13:52.000 My son Krohn, he does very well.

00:13:54.000 He gets advantage of knowing how to breathe properly and he's showing how comfortable he is when he's doing things.

00:14:02.000 But other members of the family, they don't put too much attention on breathing and it's bad for them, you know, what I can say.

00:14:08.000 It's just strange to me because people respect you so highly and respect your accomplishments in jiu-jitsu so highly.

00:14:16.000 I would imagine that they would want to emulate all the aspects of a physical culture that got you to where you became.

00:14:24.000 Yes, but my way to see jiu-jitsu has always been very clear to me, but always demands from me because, like I said, I was not sure about anything.

00:14:40.000 What's the enemy?

00:14:41.000 What's the side?

00:14:42.000 So it requires from me A larger toolbox for a warrior.

00:14:50.000 Not only the physicality, not only the training, the courage and the ability to do it, but also how to control my emotions, how to be visualizing what I want, all the aspects of the rational visualization and mindset.

00:15:10.000 And also My spiritual side, because if you want to fight you don't know who, you have to learn how to not fear death.

00:15:20.000 You have to learn how to have hope.

00:15:23.000 You have to learn how to be patient, because different than passivity, patience is a quality.

00:15:30.000 The lion stays behind the bush waiting for the zebra to get close, patiently waiting for the kill.

00:15:37.000 He's not passive, he's just patience.

00:15:39.000 So for a guy who's gonna fight somebody with no weight division, no time limits, no rules, patience, hope, faith, visualization, those are very important elements for a spiritual warrior, for a warrior who's in a situation has to improvise,

00:15:57.000 different than same weight division, five minutes rounds, the rules are there, the set.

00:16:03.000 So it's a completely different element of Spirituality, in terms of acceptance, in terms of being engaged in something, you can die.

00:16:14.000 I was expecting the best, but I was accepting the fact I could die trying.

00:16:19.000 And quitting for me was not an option.

00:16:22.000 So my life was being very much mowed under that kind of pressure, which I have to make comfortable.

00:16:30.000 So that situation pulled me in facing my monsters in a very early age.

00:16:37.000 And somehow I have to deal with the monsters, you know, from breathing, from accepting death, from being able to perform under pressure and things like that.

00:16:48.000 And I have to, you know, sometimes a cold bath, sometimes going in a heavy ocean, sometimes just to prove myself I could deal with nature and I could flow with In a very ugly scenario and perform well because emotionally I was in control.

00:17:07.000 Spiritually I was able to give my acceptance in my spirituality.

00:17:15.000 Where did you learn techniques for visualization?

00:17:19.000 I think visualization is part of the process even before I know what it is because I've always been very competitive because I've always been very Very focused on what I want.

00:17:33.000 That focus, that idea of winning, competing, what I have to learn.

00:17:39.000 So it always keeps me in a sense where the visualization pulls me in a sense I could win a fight in 10 seconds.

00:17:46.000 I could win a fight in one minute.

00:17:48.000 I could have a hard fight and win by points.

00:17:50.000 I couldn't get a lose.

00:17:52.000 I couldn't get a knockout.

00:17:54.000 So I visualized everything. 0.83

00:17:56.000 And even though I could get punched in the face and get knocked down, I still visualized it.

00:18:02.000 I was able to survive on the guard and handle the storm and able to get...

00:18:08.000 Smart again and win the fight. 0.96

00:18:10.000 So all the process, a hard fight, an easy fight, an impossible fight, and even death, is part of a good visualization because you have all the scenarios in your mind.

00:18:21.000 You review all them.

00:18:22.000 You're kind of pretty much comfortable with all the scenarios, even death.

00:18:28.000 So it's fascinating to me that when you started, there really was no, other than your father's fights and Carlson Gracie and some other people who had had fights before you, there was no history of it the way there is today.

00:18:45.000 So it was really, like, people that don't know, they think of MMA, they think of the UFC, and they think it's always been like this, and maybe they'll go back to the first UFCs.

00:18:55.000 They don't really understand that for decades, you and your family were having these no-rules fights, and they were having them in front of large audiences, and they were facing all kinds of different styles,

00:19:11.000 and there was no time limit.

00:19:13.000 And it's a completely different experience.

00:19:15.000 Yes, completely different.

00:19:17.000 Because The fight has a different purpose.

00:19:22.000 It's not about the event.

00:19:23.000 It's not about the entertainment.

00:19:25.000 It's not about the money.

00:19:28.000 It was about representing.

00:19:29.000 It was a confrontation of styles.

00:19:36.000 People don't prepare themselves in all aspects of fighting.

00:19:40.000 People represent karate or judo or boxing or wrestling.

00:19:44.000 So the idea of putting jiu-jitsu in the number one spot...

00:19:48.000 What's the commitment we have?

00:19:51.000 If you put in confrontation, we believe in jiu-jitsu to 200%.

00:19:56.000 So that idea was the focus point for the whole preparation and the whole concept of Making strategies because we're not expecting fighting another jiu-jitsu fighter.

00:20:10.000 We're expecting to represent with jiu-jitsu against boxing, against wrestling, against all the styles.

00:20:16.000 How old were you when you had your first match like that?

00:20:19.000 My first professional was 19. Fight King Zulu with 120 fights and 4 draws only.

00:20:28.000 120 victories.

00:20:30.000 He was a big guy, too.

00:20:31.000 Yeah, about 210, 220, and about...

00:20:35.000 Yeah, he was a big guy.

00:20:38.000 How much do you weigh at the time?

00:20:39.000 174. Those matches are still available online.

00:20:44.000 People can watch them.

00:20:45.000 Yeah.

00:20:45.000 It's pretty cool.

00:20:46.000 I think so, yeah.

00:20:47.000 Is it wild looking back at 19-year-old you fighting Zulu?

00:20:52.000 It was maybe the biggest experience in my life because at this point I felt like I was good.

00:20:57.000 I was able to fight well.

00:21:00.000 But I didn't have the experience.

00:21:02.000 So, and then one day I got home, I saw my father talking with his, Zulu's manager in Brasilia, the capital.

00:21:10.000 And the guy tried to bring, to invite somebody of my father's team to fight Zulu.

00:21:17.000 And my father was saying, no, I don't have nobody.

00:21:19.000 We don't fight Valetudo for so long.

00:21:21.000 Nobody's training for.

00:21:23.000 And I get the idea, said, hey, dad, pull me in, pull me in, pull me in.

00:21:27.000 So, I immediately ask him to, and he look at me, And he mentioned to the, to the Valdemar Santana said, yes, but I have my son here at 19 years old.

00:21:35.000 He want to try.

00:21:36.000 And the guy said, no, Mr. Mr. Gracie, this is not a fight for him to try.

00:21:41.000 The guy is very tough and this and that.

00:21:43.000 As the guy tried to pull my father off the deal, my father becomes more excited to the, no, but I think he going to go handle the challenge, this and that.

00:21:51.000 So he's become excited with the situation.

00:21:55.000 So, and then we set up the fight.

00:21:57.000 One month later, I was there to fight.

00:22:03.000 And we start the fight, and he has a trade, like one move he does, which grabs you with the hands between your legs and lifts you up and throws you back on the floor.

00:22:18.000 And as he approached that, I moved back, blocked his shoulders and hit him with the knee right on his face. 1.00

00:22:26.000 It was the best knee I could possibly give in somebody.

00:22:29.000 And I expect him to just, I expect to win the fight right in that moment.

00:22:35.000 But he just shook, he stood up, lifted his head, shook, spit a tooth, and started back ready again to go, you know?

00:22:45.000 And then I felt like it was really serious, and I think it was much serious than I expected.

00:22:51.000 And for the next 10 minutes, because it was 10 minutes rounds, For the end of the round, we just engage and fall on the ring and come back in and back out.

00:23:02.000 A lot of commotion, a lot of strength.

00:23:06.000 And at the end of the round, I'm kind of crawling to the corner.

00:23:10.000 And I said to my dad, Dad, I quit.

00:23:12.000 I cannot go anymore.

00:23:13.000 I'm tired.

00:23:14.000 And my dad not even listened to me.

00:23:16.000 He said, He's tired than you.

00:23:17.000 He's worse. 1.00

00:23:17.000 Now you're going to kick his ass, do this and that. 1.00

00:23:19.000 I said, Dad, I'm serious, man. 1.00

00:23:21.000 I'm dead.

00:23:22.000 I cannot go. 0.55

00:23:23.000 And then my brother Halls throw me a bucket of ice and water in my head.

00:23:27.000 I go...

00:23:28.000 And then, bing, the bell rings and I push in again.

00:23:33.000 And like my dad said, I could beat the guy in three minutes because he was already tired, wasted two.

00:23:39.000 So when I grabbed his back, he could not escape and I put him to sleep.

00:23:43.000 And then I confirmed my worst enemy was in my mind.

00:23:50.000 My enemy was in my brain telling me I have to quit.

00:23:55.000 So I decide in that day, never hurt my mind to tell bad things to me anymore.

00:24:03.000 So either I'm going to die or I don't go.

00:24:07.000 But if I go, I cannot say, oh, I think I had enough.

00:24:09.000 I think it's time to...

00:24:10.000 So this was the worst enemy I could have.

00:24:13.000 And from that day on, I decide to either go to putting everything on it or don't go at all.

00:24:20.000 So it was easier for me because I would start to deal with one enemy only, not two enemies, my mind and my opponent.

00:24:30.000 It's probably the most common thing that happens to fighters is they lose faith in themselves or they start to look for a way out.

00:24:38.000 Yes.

00:24:40.000 That's pretty much a...

00:24:43.000 Because you don't see the other side.

00:24:44.000 You see yourself and you see you're tired.

00:24:46.000 You see with problems.

00:24:47.000 You start to see the negative aspects of you.

00:24:50.000 And you're not putting yourself like...

00:24:53.000 The guy has the same problems.

00:24:55.000 He has the same ideas.

00:24:56.000 So you have to keep going here as everything is normal.

00:24:59.000 And it's hard to people relate to that.

00:25:02.000 When you start getting the problems, you start to see yourself bigger than the other ones.

00:25:06.000 More problems and more...

00:25:08.000 And that's not going to be the right way to resolve the matter.

00:25:11.000 It's interesting that you figured out how to handle these things on your own, too, because it's an area that fighters seek psychological help with now.

00:25:22.000 They hire psychologists, and they get hypnotized, and they do all these different things to try to figure out how to stop that negative conversation in the mind, how to stop those negative voices, and how to not give in to that weakness that wants you to quit.

00:25:37.000 Yes.

00:25:38.000 This power, we all have within.

00:25:41.000 But some people don't even go for that and they seek for different people to help them, which is good too.

00:25:48.000 But once you become more intuitive, when you become more enlightened with your own potential, you're able to resolve all the matters yourself, you know, because it's all about your mindset.

00:26:01.000 It's how you think and how you believe and what you're ready for and what you're prepared for and how you're able to To accept and surrender everything around you.

00:26:12.000 And these moments where you do want to quit, whether it's in training or in competition, for people who understand that and have experienced that and have overcome it, life becomes easier.

00:26:25.000 Yes, I think, you know, martial arts practice with a complete idea It's a metaphor for life.

00:26:34.000 You become a good martial artist, you become a good person, you're going to become a happy person because you want to be able to conquer your happiness outside of the mat.

00:26:46.000 And to deal with your demons.

00:26:48.000 Yes.

00:26:49.000 Some people never fight those demons.

00:26:51.000 So when something happens to them in life, some adversity comes up, they're not accustomed to handling it.

00:26:58.000 Yes.

00:26:59.000 And we're seeing a lot of that now with this pandemic.

00:27:02.000 We're seeing a lot of people freaking out because they've never really experienced any true adversity in their life.

00:27:09.000 Yes.

00:27:10.000 It's not only for that, but because they don't ever thought about how to resolve those problems.

00:27:15.000 You know, they're just thinking the problem is there, what I'm going to do, but they don't thinking about how I can control the situation, how I can be on top of this, how I can...

00:27:27.000 You know, just defend myself from those demons.

00:27:30.000 And if you don't see the perspective of how I can resolve my problems, you allow yourself to put your problems in somebody else's hands to resolve for you.

00:27:42.000 And it's all about perspective.

00:27:45.000 It's all about focus.

00:27:47.000 You've had a really extraordinary life, and it's so unusual.

00:27:53.000 Your position, like what happened to you as a young man, having your father, Elio Gracie, who's one of the most important people in the history of martial arts, to be raised by a man like that, to be raised in the Gracie family, the most important family in the history of martial arts,

00:28:11.000 in my opinion.

00:28:12.000 It's pretty incredible.

00:28:14.000 Do you stop sometimes to think about how unusual and how fortunate for your life it was to be in that position?

00:28:24.000 It's always been special and different.

00:28:29.000 Being a Gracie, since I understand myself, because I get gi before I get diapers.

00:28:37.000 So I was a special, you know, person and a special family.

00:28:43.000 And my father's friends say, oh, you're going to be a fighter too.

00:28:47.000 You're going to be a champion too.

00:28:49.000 So you become a grace even before you understand what it is.

00:28:53.000 And you use kimonos, you play on the garden and wrestle everybody and play and able to throw, able to fall, able to choke.

00:29:01.000 So you start to get in that environment where fighting is normal, is recreational.

00:29:06.000 You get in the environment where being a Gracie, you eat well, you be in a diet from day one.

00:29:13.000 You don't drink Coca-Cola, you don't take, you know, chocolates, ice creams, it's just about healthy stuff, carrot juices and salads and soups and this.

00:29:25.000 So I've been created to become somebody special.

00:29:30.000 And when you become knowledgeable about being Gracie, You start to put yourself in a line of, you know, one day I'm going to be the fighter, one day I'm going to be the representative.

00:29:46.000 So all my life I was training hard with my brothers, seeking to become better than them, to get their spot or to represent in the family.

00:29:56.000 And I was noticed I was talented at a very early age.

00:30:00.000 And I always loved competing, very competitive.

00:30:03.000 And it was just a great journey to become more confident in my style, more important in the family to represent.

00:30:14.000 So it was just a bumpy road which had me create better strength, better mindset, better spiritual guidance.

00:30:24.000 What is it like to have grown up in that environment and then move to America and just teach Americans and teach people that are like hobbyists and just want to try it and train every now and then?

00:30:38.000 Is that satisfying?

00:30:40.000 Does it frustrate you sometimes that people don't have the same level of commitment?

00:30:44.000 Because jujitsu obviously is life to you.

00:30:46.000 It's a very significant aspect of your being.

00:30:51.000 Yes.

00:30:54.000 It was exposed to me as an art form, as something we, our business, our way to express ourselves.

00:31:02.000 My father always with Gi, showing things, and the academy, and my brothers and myself.

00:31:08.000 I start to become like, I want to be a teacher too.

00:31:11.000 So being an instructor, being a Jiu-Jitsu representative was not only for fighting.

00:31:16.000 The fighting actually was just the back It's on the secondary level.

00:31:24.000 You're not there to fight anybody.

00:31:25.000 It's not there to challenge anybody.

00:31:27.000 We're there to just teach.

00:31:29.000 And if somebody says, yeah, but I believe box can, okay, let's fight.

00:31:32.000 Oh, but I believe I can, judo can, so let's fight. 0.62

00:31:36.000 So whatever style come up with the idea, capoeira, whatever style come up with the idea, he could Face a Jiu Jitsu fighter, so let's prove Jiu Jitsu is better, and let's keep teaching Jiu Jitsu.

00:31:51.000 And in the teaching aspect, completely different than the representativity and the fighting aspect, Jiu Jitsu has always been a soft art.

00:32:00.000 We always can accept and create strength on the weaker people.

00:32:06.000 Jiu Jitsu is art for the weaker. 0.95

00:32:10.000 My father Who developed a better jiu-jitsu than the one he learned with my uncle, Carlos.

00:32:17.000 He developed a better jiu-jitsu because he could not do one pull-up and one push-up.

00:32:22.000 He was weak.

00:32:23.000 He was forbidden to do exercise up to 16 years old.

00:32:27.000 He could not do anything.

00:32:28.000 No ride bikes.

00:32:30.000 Why?

00:32:30.000 Because he has vertical.

00:32:32.000 He was very skinny, very nervous, and if he ran a little bit, he passed out.

00:32:38.000 So he was very weak.

00:32:40.000 So from 13 years old, when my uncle Carlos opened the first Jiu Jitsu Academy in 1925 in Brazil, to 16 years old, he was sitting on the corner watching my uncle teach.

00:32:55.000 He could not train.

00:32:56.000 He was there just watching and memorizing all the lines, watching all the techniques.

00:33:02.000 And then one day, a student arrived before my uncle Carlos arrived.

00:33:08.000 And my father said, Mister, if you want, I can put the gi in practice with you until my brother arrives.

00:33:14.000 So they start to play a little bit.

00:33:16.000 And when my uncle Carlos arrived at the school, the student said to Carlos, Carlos, I like to keep training with Helio because he's so talented.

00:33:26.000 I love to practice with him.

00:33:28.000 So that way, my father started to engage on the practice of jiu-jitsu.

00:33:32.000 But a regular choke, which was taught with the choke like this, Using the strength of the arms, he could not do.

00:33:43.000 So he had to get together and use the chest, which represents 10 or 15 more times powerful with more leverage and less effort.

00:33:52.000 So we normally say Helio Grace is to jiu-jitsu as Einstein is to physics.

00:33:59.000 He's a creator, he's an inventor.

00:34:01.000 He started adding leverage and angles for him to be able to do it, which transcends the physicality he learns.

00:34:11.000 So, with that, my father started adding techniques and angles, and actually, I believe the guard, the guard of jiu-jitsu was developed not from Maeda, not from Carlos Gracie,

00:34:27.000 but from Elio Gracie, who could not have another option to fight My father developed a A combat format from the bottom,

00:34:55.000 which was not there until him show up in the jiu-jitsu scenario.

00:35:02.000 So the techniques and the development we put on the jiu-jitsu makes our jiu-jitsu be accessible for weaker persons.

00:35:13.000 So the weaker, he feels good because he don't have to use power.

00:35:17.000 Oh, just the angle here.

00:35:18.000 So we empower the students.

00:35:21.000 One time I started to help my brother, Horion, to teach.

00:35:25.000 I was about 12, 13 years old.

00:35:28.000 Because at the same time, I said to my dad, Dad, I don't want to go to school anymore.

00:35:34.000 And he said, OK, you don't want to go to school.

00:35:36.000 I cannot force you to do that.

00:35:38.000 But don't ask me for money.

00:35:41.000 I'm going to give you a house.

00:35:43.000 I'm going to give you food.

00:35:44.000 But you make your own money.

00:35:45.000 I said, okay, I'm going to help Horion to teach, and he can give me some money.

00:35:50.000 And in my mind, I was set.

00:35:53.000 So I was helping Horion to teach.

00:35:56.000 And then I asked my dad, I said, Dad, what I should do to become the best teacher I can be?

00:36:02.000 And he said, if you want to be a good teacher, you learn the army lock, and you teach a good army lock, and make sure the guy knows how to do it tight enough and perfect army lock.

00:36:13.000 If you want to be an excellent teacher, you have to see what the students need to learn.

00:36:22.000 With that advice, he gave me something which is not only the physicality of the sport, but also the psychology aspect.

00:36:30.000 Because sometimes you see a guy who is lazy and just...

00:36:35.000 So you have to wake him up.

00:36:37.000 So let's go, do this, respond.

00:36:38.000 So increase your reflexes, increase the capacity for him to be connected.

00:36:44.000 If you see the guy too aggressive, too tense, too nervous, you say, hey, man, relax, breathe, take your time, do slow.

00:36:50.000 So educate the guy to be able to control his emotions and his aggressiveness and become more peaceful.

00:36:56.000 So anyone has a different particular way to learn better or to get better information.

00:37:03.000 Jiu-Jitsu can favor everybody in different ways, no matter if you're aggressive, no matter if you're mean.

00:37:10.000 So with this being said...

00:37:14.000 I was there to teach Jiu Jitsu.

00:37:15.000 I was there to just help people in a way to empower them.

00:37:20.000 And I also there in a different route to represent Jiu Jitsu to fight anyone.

00:37:26.000 So I was not getting in a camp to fight.

00:37:29.000 If I have to fight, I just take my gi and go.

00:37:32.000 I was always in shape.

00:37:34.000 I was always practice.

00:37:35.000 I was always training.

00:37:36.000 But it was not exactly a preparation For a fight.

00:37:41.000 I feel like I have to be ready because if the guy called me to go to fight on the beach right now, I have to go.

00:37:47.000 So be ready was part of the game.

00:37:50.000 Not being an athlete, but being a martial artist.

00:37:53.000 So all those concepts differ from today's attitude towards the practice and the training and also some people who are competitors They cannot teach beginners or be nice because they just fight too hard and they have to focus too hard on the training.

00:38:13.000 Either you stay on their boat or he cannot go and help somebody else in a different atmosphere.

00:38:20.000 For me, it was always, I can fight the worst guys that is today.

00:38:25.000 Tomorrow I'm going to be teaching some old lady or some guy, and I keep myself focused on the levers, on the angles, on the details.

00:38:35.000 So all this gives me a sense of being a duo, not only a good teacher, but also a good fighter.

00:38:43.000 It's so amazing when you stop and think about the fact that your father had such a unique circumstance in terms of being small and also being there with Carlos when he was teaching those classes.

00:38:58.000 But the fact that he was small and that he learned leverage and learned to maximize these techniques, It became the most important aspect of jujitsu.

00:39:07.000 To this day, when I talk to people, I always say the best instructors, it seems like a lot of them are smaller people.

00:39:15.000 Because those smaller people, they can't muscle their way out of these things.

00:39:19.000 Sometimes when you get a really big, strong guy, they can use too much physical strength.

00:39:24.000 But the small guys, they don't have that option, so everything has to be technical.

00:39:28.000 It has to be precise.

00:39:30.000 It has to be perfect.

00:39:31.000 Yes.

00:39:35.000 Arguments against techniques and timing and connection.

00:39:39.000 So the ideas of learning jiu-jitsu properly is for sure the right way.

00:39:45.000 But some people, they're strong and they try to compensate the lack of speed or movement with the strength.

00:39:54.000 So they become, they create their own pattern, their own way to fight because they can use, they can afford to waste energy because they have it.

00:40:03.000 My father couldn't.

00:40:05.000 So...

00:40:06.000 Sometimes they say, oh, I don't care too much about little details because I can make it up with this way.

00:40:11.000 So they start using jiu-jitsu with their personal abilities, with their aggressiveness, and becomes a good formula too.

00:40:20.000 Works properly because it's just good enough to do it.

00:40:24.000 But that cannot be something we teach for anyone because if you don't have what he has, he cannot be executed.

00:40:31.000 So we have to teach in jiu-jitsu on a level.

00:40:34.000 Anyone can take it.

00:40:36.000 And after that point, you can take what you learn and add your personal abilities and attributes.

00:40:44.000 Don't you think though that even those big strong guys, if they learned everything perfectly, if they learned the right technique in the right way and almost ignored the fact that they were strong, they would have even more success?

00:40:56.000 Oh man, definitely.

00:40:57.000 Imagine, Elio Grace with 250 pounds.

00:41:02.000 Yeah, exactly, right?

00:41:04.000 I mean, you think there's, you know, one time I remember when Krohn was young, you and I, we were over at your house and you were showing me some fights from Coliseum, from the 2000 event, and you were breaking down how so many fighters leave so much space.

00:41:25.000 Yes.

00:41:26.000 And that this is all fundamentally wrong and that if you follow the correct principles of jiu-jitsu and if you see even these guys who are jiu-jitsu black belts, they left space.

00:41:37.000 They had all these errors that they shouldn't have had because they didn't concentrate on the details the way your father did.

00:41:43.000 Yes, I agree 100% because today not only the jiu-jitsu becomes very popular, But the competitiveness aspect of jiu-jitsu creates, based on rules and practice,

00:41:59.000 a jiu-jitsu which is not representing the control For the kill.

00:42:04.000 It represents more strategy for winning a tournament by points, advantages.

00:42:09.000 Of course, if the guy makes a mistake, you can choke or submit.

00:42:13.000 But the great objectivity of the fight today is not losing by points.

00:42:18.000 It's not expose yourself by losing by little.

00:42:20.000 So the worries and the concerns about Fighting become a little different than just fight for winning and keeping tight.

00:42:30.000 Like, you know, there's no two options.

00:42:33.000 You have to just go for the kill and tight enough and take advantage of every different space is given to capitalize.

00:42:43.000 So the idea of controlling your opponent with the objectivity to win It's a little different than the objectivity of a jiu-jitsu who has create points or a system which in two or three minutes the fight is going to end and I'm going to win.

00:43:01.000 So why are you going to bother?

00:43:02.000 So you can see a strategy was not there in my time.

00:43:06.000 Yeah, there's a lot of that you would see with wrestlers entering into these tournaments where they would figure out how to hold a guy down, take a guy down, hold a guy down, but they would never pass through a dominant position and they would never finish.

00:43:18.000 They would never try to finish.

00:43:20.000 That was not their objective.

00:43:21.000 Their objective was just to score points.

00:43:23.000 Yes.

00:43:24.000 And you put that kind of strategy and a very tough guy who decides to compete in the MMA or a fight on the street.

00:43:33.000 He will feel like not exactly comfortable to be effective in jiu-jitsu the way it's supposed to be because he's not going to find ideas for points or strategies, competitive strategies on the street or on the MMA. That's why the jiu-jitsu and MMA today has less representativity than supposed to have because it becomes a little spacey.

00:43:59.000 The guard, the valetudo guard especially, It's not present in maybe 95% of the jiu-jitsu fighters today.

00:44:07.000 But when you say by the valetudo guard, what specifically do you mean about that?

00:44:12.000 Because if I don't have a valetudo guard, I don't know how to deal with somebody who wants to punch me.

00:44:17.000 Or headbutt.

00:44:18.000 Or headbutt, or elbows, or striking, or get in a position to hurt me.

00:44:23.000 A valetudo guard expects only the striking, only the headbutt.

00:44:27.000 So I'm comfortable to deal with that.

00:44:29.000 If you're training jiu-jitsu for life, and every time you put a gi and try to do arm locks, and you put yourself in a position you could get punched, and you never receive those punches, you're never aware of the angles and the possibilities, you become unaware.

00:44:47.000 So you bring that defective jiu-jitsu to an MMA fight, You'll be scared of being in the guard because every time in the guard you get punched, you get problems.

00:44:57.000 Different than a guy who has a comfortable situation from the guard position.

00:45:02.000 I really like Krohn's valetudo guard because he's aware of the situation.

00:45:07.000 He loves to be in the guard as he loves to be mounted, like myself.

00:45:11.000 For me, I have no problems to be on the bottom in the guard or have to be mounted.

00:45:17.000 For me, two are great positions for victory.

00:45:21.000 That's a very good point because there is a transitionary period when fighters who are only competing in Jiu Jitsu have to deal with those punches and a lot of times they are not comfortable at all being on their back.

00:45:33.000 They'd like to get out of that position and they would only like to be on top because in that position they can control the strikes better.

00:45:40.000 Yes. 0.99

00:45:40.000 And then you have to deal with a wrestler who is impossible to take down And you spend all your energy trying to go, instead pull him to the garden and kick his ass with pretty much simple attitude, you know? 0.99

00:45:53.000 When you see jujitsu today, and you see that there's so much of it that does rely on points, do you long for the day?

00:46:05.000 Do you wish that they had no limit jujitsu matches that were submission only?

00:46:09.000 Do you think that's a better way to do it?

00:46:11.000 I mean, definitely.

00:46:13.000 Not only for jujitsu, but for MMA. If you want to be a result, you have to take off the judge and the points to see who is the best guy out there.

00:46:23.000 And a tennis match can be quickly resolved if I win the three sets, but can be a five-hour dispute if every point we dispute like crazy.

00:46:36.000 And that's going to be the difference to see a half-hour game or a five-hour game.

00:46:44.000 So why we don't have that kind of scenario in jiu-jitsu or in MMA? Because you want to see somebody who wins at the end.

00:46:52.000 And the situation, if I score on you 10 points and you end up mounted on me, I win because I have 10 points.

00:47:02.000 But in reality, if you mount on me and you end the fight mounted, your chance for you to be the winner is bigger.

00:47:08.000 Same thing than MMA. If I fight in MMA and I have...

00:47:15.000 I win the first round because I punch you once in the face.

00:47:18.000 I win the second round because I punch you again in the face and nothing happened.

00:47:23.000 And on the third round, you mount on me, I turn back, you choke me out.

00:47:28.000 When I was about to tap, the bell rings, the judge stops the fight.

00:47:35.000 The guy who win the previous two rounds wins the match.

00:47:38.000 And that's not, for me, a realistic understanding of what the fight means.

00:47:44.000 For me, the value of who's winning the last round, if I have already the choke, I just need 10 more seconds to beat you and the fight is over.

00:47:58.000 In terms of reality, this guy lost the fight.

00:48:02.000 No way for him to win.

00:48:03.000 And that's not happened.

00:48:04.000 So the interpretation, the rules, the time, they're all kind of coming to promote entertainment, but not to give you the sense of who is the best guy out there.

00:48:14.000 It is a problem, right, where you're trying to figure out how to make something so it's palatable to people to watch as an entertainment vehicle, but it's also representative of a competitive martial art.

00:48:29.000 I don't think it's a capacity for you to do both.

00:48:32.000 I think, right now, the idea is entertainment.

00:48:38.000 Which is very relevant.

00:48:39.000 People love it.

00:48:41.000 Fighters make money.

00:48:43.000 Everything goes well.

00:48:45.000 I just say nothing wrong about it.

00:48:46.000 But it's not martial arts.

00:48:48.000 It's a game, entertainment, something which people like to siege for the blows, for the art, for the violence.

00:48:56.000 But it's not about who is the best guy out there.

00:48:59.000 It's a game that uses martial arts.

00:49:01.000 Yes.

00:49:02.000 I wonder if there's room for...

00:49:06.000 Well, it would have to be both.

00:49:07.000 It would have to be no holds barred and it would also have to be no time limits.

00:49:12.000 Yes.

00:49:13.000 I feel like someone could put something like that together.

00:49:17.000 The problem is, at the highest levels of the organizations, everybody wants to fight for the UFC or they want to fight for Bellator.

00:49:26.000 I mean, that's really what you want.

00:49:27.000 If you want the biggest companies with the most experience, most eyes on you, I don't think they're going to be willing to do that.

00:49:37.000 They're not going to be willing to have these no limit, no time limit, no rules fights.

00:49:41.000 So if that's the case, you're not going to get the best athletes.

00:49:44.000 Because the best athletes are going to get signed to the UFC and signed to Bellator.

00:49:49.000 Of course.

00:49:51.000 Yeah, like I said, the idea of entertainment, the idea of business, is going way above the idea of legitimacy.

00:50:03.000 So I think in terms of...

00:50:07.000 Ideas, the idea of making something real is appealing.

00:50:12.000 But in terms of business, I feel like the way we have right now is more appealing.

00:50:17.000 It's the way it is.

00:50:19.000 Yeah.

00:50:19.000 Well, it's popular.

00:50:21.000 The good thing is it's making more people want to train martial arts and train jiu-jitsu and train kickboxing.

00:50:27.000 But I see what you're saying in that the purity is not the same as the early days.

00:50:32.000 Yes.

00:50:33.000 But I also feel like...

00:50:36.000 The practice today of different styles of martial arts, without the punishment, without the suffering, you should do, for example, you go in the gym.

00:50:52.000 When you go in any gym, no matter if it's MMA, at the beginning, you're not going to get hurt.

00:50:57.000 You're not going to get injured.

00:50:58.000 You're going to be instructed to punch the bag or to throw the hip throws or sweeps.

00:51:04.000 So you get engaged in a practice which favors your ability to deal with the techniques, the ability to get fit, the ability to understand pressure, but at your own pace.

00:51:17.000 Sometimes, if you do this too much, you're going to quit because you're going to get injury.

00:51:24.000 So the idea of creating a scenario To promote fitness, sensorial ability, for you to develop your senses, your capacities, your breathing,

00:51:40.000 without putting pressure for you to have an enemy in front of you, I think that's growing because the real enemy today is the COVID. The real enemy today coming through email.

00:51:52.000 So if you have a practice who is more than just go to the gym, lift weights, but a practice to develop your deflection, your timing to escape from a punch, the capacity for you to handle your base and not get fall, the capacity for you to, if you see a neck exposed,

00:52:08.000 to get a headlock. 0.77

00:52:09.000 So you start to favor yourself with knowledge and practice, which doesn't put you a fighter, doesn't make you a fighter, but make you knowledgeable about possibilities you may have.

00:52:19.000 And you're going to be happy to know them Even though you're a doctor, even though you're a lawyer, even though you're a guy who's just an executive, who has no plans to fight nobody, but by no better, you're more confident, you're more calm,

00:52:35.000 you're more peaceful, because a lot of the insecure state of mind is what brings violence to the table.

00:52:43.000 The violence coming when you feel threatening, when you feel, oh man, so ego and stuff.

00:52:48.000 So when you become more confident, Even though you're not a fighter, even though you just practice in a light way, you become much more comfortable to be peaceful, to say, hey, man, I'm sorry, I don't want to fight.

00:53:04.000 So you're able to come up with situations which is not about fighting to win.

00:53:09.000 It's about win without a fight.

00:53:12.000 So using a lot of the concepts of martial arts make you more forgiveness, Make you more balanced, make you more capable to stretch your patience.

00:53:23.000 And that's very positive to handle life, problems, situations, and so on.

00:53:30.000 And I always tell people that I believe that jujitsu is the best martial art for real-life conflict because in training you're really going 100%.

00:53:39.000 It's like if you go 100% all the time with kickboxing, you knock each other out every day, you can't do that.

00:53:44.000 You'll be damaged, you'll get brain damage, you'll have to quit.

00:53:48.000 But in jujitsu, when you have a training partner, they could be your brother, you could love them.

00:53:54.000 But you're trying to choke them, and they're trying to tap you, and you're going at it full blast.

00:53:59.000 And then you tap, or you tap them, and you keep going.

00:54:03.000 Yes.

00:54:03.000 When you deal with a real-life conflict, if that ever happens, and hopefully it never will, you'll be accustomed to people resisting 100%.

00:54:11.000 Yes.

00:54:11.000 Jiu-Jitsu gives you the pleasure of feeling your gauges, you know?

00:54:15.000 Your temperature, your tiredness, your panicking, your intelligence, your sharpness, your techniques.

00:54:21.000 So you're able to use those in a very expressive way.

00:54:25.000 You're able to unleash the beast anytime you want.

00:54:29.000 So you're able to really recognize yourself under pressure, discomfort, comfortable, confident.

00:54:35.000 And those give you the articulation to live.

00:54:39.000 You leave the school, you're more peaceful, you're more sharp, you're more intelligent, because you've been sharpening your knife at the school to use that life.

00:54:50.000 What are your thoughts on all the new techniques of jiu-jitsu?

00:54:55.000 There's many schools of thoughts when it comes to jiu-jitsu.

00:54:58.000 A lot of people like to try all these fancy new moves and all these new strategies and new ways of approaching things, barambolos and different Iminari rolls.

00:55:10.000 And some people think that the best way to handle it is to look at the very basics of jiu-jitsu and just hone those to a razor sharpness.

00:55:20.000 I love the fundamentals.

00:55:23.000 Those fundamentals are the core of efficiency.

00:55:27.000 But those fundamentals, sometimes they're connected with different elements of creativity.

00:55:33.000 And because the guys are training like crazy today and always being...

00:55:37.000 But the evolutionary process of the tournaments and the grips and the things, lapel guards and things.

00:55:43.000 So I cannot deny the effectiveness of this when you have a lapel.

00:55:48.000 I cannot deny the practice of this when the opponent is playing the game you expect him to play.

00:55:55.000 But it's always a way to deal with situations to diminish the effectiveness of a lapel.

00:56:01.000 So that play today, the guy coming with a technique of a lapel guard, some other guy coming with the un-lapel guard technique to do.

00:56:09.000 So this evolves, evolves, evolves to the point where sometimes becomes a lot of wasting time because in reality what you want is to submit the opponent.

00:56:19.000 Not exactly make a sweep or making...

00:56:21.000 So the idea of the submission, the idea of the finishing, the idea of being in control cannot be diminished based on that kind of amount of new techniques.

00:56:33.000 So for every 10 techniques I see, I can relate at least with one.

00:56:41.000 I can maybe accept works good, maybe three or four.

00:56:45.000 But others will depend on The opponent allowed you to do.

00:56:51.000 Pretty much a lot of things they show are effective when the situation is exactly what they show.

00:56:58.000 If the guy changes a little bit, it's not happening anymore.

00:57:01.000 I'm not exactly in favor of new techniques.

00:57:05.000 I know they happen, but I really like the fundamentals.

00:57:08.000 The fundamentals of the core.

00:57:10.000 Yes.

00:57:12.000 Eddie Bravo showed you some of his ideas for rubber guard and some of those techniques last time we got together.

00:57:21.000 What did you think about those?

00:57:25.000 If you know what to expect and how to handle, you can defend.

00:57:31.000 Between them, if both guys are experts on the same, the situation will be diminished because the effectiveness is not there anymore.

00:57:40.000 Pretty much some techniques are good to surprise the opponent, but not effective against the opponent who knows better.

00:57:49.000 You know?

00:57:50.000 So I was talking with John Jack one day about it.

00:57:53.000 He said, yeah, it works, but if you do this and that, you kill the position and there's nothing going to happen.

00:57:59.000 And I understand every situation is like that in Jiu Jitsu, but in some situations, which the ones I really like, As you protect one, you expose other.

00:58:13.000 As you protect this one, you're going to...

00:58:16.000 So it's always something for me to exhalate the pressure and go towards the submission.

00:58:22.000 Some positions, they're stuck in the middle, and I need you to make a mistake.

00:58:27.000 For me to capitalize.

00:58:28.000 If you don't make a mistake, we get stuck here.

00:58:31.000 So I cannot escalate the process.

00:58:34.000 The positions I like, I'm able to escalate.

00:58:38.000 I go to the neck, you protect the neck, I'm already going for arm law.

00:58:41.000 So I'm able to create a comfortable evolutionary process to the submission.

00:58:47.000 One of the more interesting things about jiu-jitsu today is the evolution of the leg lock game.

00:58:52.000 It's really accelerated over the last, say, six or seven years.

00:58:57.000 Yes.

00:58:58.000 Particularly because of John Donaher and the Henzo Gracie team.

00:59:02.000 These guys have effectively changed the way a lot of particularly no-gi fights go down.

00:59:09.000 What are your thoughts on that?

00:59:11.000 I've always been a very much fan for leg locks.

00:59:16.000 I remember a long time ago, my friend Eric Paulson, he showed me a tape when I was about to go to Japan to fight the first Vale Tudo.

00:59:27.000 He showed me a tape of Shoto.

00:59:30.000 Shoto was the techniques were created by Satoru Sayama, which is the tiger mask in Japan.

00:59:41.000 So he showed me that tape.

00:59:42.000 And in that tape, they go a lot in knee locks and leg locks.

00:59:46.000 So next day, I was inspired to do leg locks and foot locks and everybody.

00:59:51.000 Foot locks are already expert.

00:59:53.000 I was already know.

00:59:53.000 The knee locks were new for me.

00:59:56.000 So, and the next day, I was training with everybody at the school and submitting everybody on the leg locks, knee locks.

01:00:03.000 I always been very much...

01:00:05.000 I really like leg locks with no doubts.

01:00:11.000 And I felt like sometimes if I want to cheat, if I want to win fast, I go for the leg lock because the guy will tap quicker.

01:00:18.000 I was feeling like, almost like, oh, leg locks is cheating because it's too easy.

01:00:23.000 With all this...

01:00:26.000 The leg locks, understanding and pressure, are never being exposed too much to others.

01:00:32.000 And now, like you said, after this kind of group starts training and stuff, so they really become more effective in knee locks, leg locks, and that's a big game change if you don't know how to escape.

01:00:46.000 But again, if you get two guys that are experts, The training partners.

01:00:51.000 You're not going to see that many leg locks.

01:00:53.000 You're going to see a lot of preparations and stuff.

01:00:55.000 But the leg locks will get the surprising ones who don't know the ability to escape.

01:01:01.000 Because if you know what I want, as you start to approach, I start escaping.

01:01:06.000 My movements have to be coordinated to anticipate the final move.

01:01:11.000 If you get me on a checkmate, it's over.

01:01:14.000 So with the legs are two possibilities for you to get the situation and make it happen.

01:01:20.000 And it's very dangerous if you're not aware.

01:01:24.000 But as you start to get used to give foot locks, you become like a part like giving chokes and taking chokes.

01:01:30.000 So that becomes normal and it's just a new way, a new option for the submission.

01:01:37.000 To prove your point, Craig Jones, who's one of the Donaher guys, said that they almost never tap each other with leg locks.

01:01:43.000 Yes.

01:01:43.000 And he goes, they don't even go for it.

01:01:45.000 Yes.

01:01:45.000 Because everybody knows the positions and knows the defense.

01:01:48.000 Yes, so they anticipate the defense.

01:01:49.000 It becomes like, it's just one more piece on the puzzle, you know, and it's very well done and it's very, very dangerous.

01:01:56.000 And if you're not aware, you can get a quick defeat.

01:02:00.000 Because especially on the knee locks, if you try to resist pop your ligaments, instead you feel pain.

01:02:05.000 So it's very dangerous.

01:02:07.000 In the early days of jiu-jitsu tournaments, if someone tried to win by leg lock, the crowd would go crazy and boo.

01:02:15.000 Not really.

01:02:17.000 It was not common, but you know.

01:02:21.000 Maybe not in the early days, maybe after the early days, but there was a time in jiu-jitsu tournaments, for sure, if someone would try to tap someone with a leg lock or a knee bar.

01:02:30.000 Do you think that was because of the concern with injury?

01:02:35.000 Yes.

01:02:36.000 The idea of the footlock, even though I'm grabbing your foot and try to attack the joint of the foot, depending how I use my hips and my legs, I can really force your knee.

01:02:50.000 So sometimes the criticism was, oh, the guy went to my foot, but he put pressure on my knee and popped my knee instead.

01:02:59.000 So he's still holding the foot, but with the intention to hurt your knee.

01:03:03.000 And those kind of inverse positions was forbidden for a long time in Jiu-Jitsu.

01:03:08.000 So when somebody gets your foot, the referee will see if your intention is to hurt his knee and then immediately stop the fight and give you penalties and stuff.

01:03:18.000 But now it's legal.

01:03:20.000 Now they open for the...

01:03:22.000 And people are going to start to get improving in defenses, improving in situations to don't get yourself get caught.

01:03:28.000 It's just a matter of understanding the techniques and start to practice accordingly.

01:03:33.000 And it's going to become just another variant.

01:03:36.000 Do you think people have to be more cautious in training and teaching it, especially to new people?

01:03:42.000 Definitely.

01:03:43.000 Because...

01:03:44.000 Like I said, it works on the ligaments.

01:03:46.000 If I force my finger this way, I will feel pain before I hurt.

01:03:52.000 If I force this way, it will pop, and then I will feel pain.

01:03:56.000 It hurts nothing, and then pop.

01:03:59.000 So the knee has lateral ligaments, which prevents from moving laterally.

01:04:04.000 If I resist, I feel nothing until it pops.

01:04:07.000 It's not gonna feel pain different than a straight knee bar.

01:04:11.000 And then you need surgery.

01:04:12.000 Yes.

01:04:13.000 Yeah, it's a big issue with leg lock specialists.

01:04:16.000 A giant percentage of them wind up having knee surgery.

01:04:20.000 Yes.

01:04:22.000 It's a difficult thing to learn unless you're with really good training partners and everyone's cautious and you do it correctly, but it can be done.

01:04:31.000 Yes, can be done.

01:04:33.000 Tell me about your book.

01:04:34.000 Your book is out today.

01:04:37.000 It's called Breathe.

01:04:38.000 What was the motivation to write this book?

01:04:44.000 First of all, the motivation was money.

01:04:47.000 I have a good proposal from the publishing house, and I felt like, especially on those days, it's hard to make money.

01:04:54.000 I felt like it was a good option.

01:04:57.000 And then the second motivation, the reason I did, was the fact I've been passing for so many experiences, you know.

01:05:05.000 And those experiences make me grow as a man.

01:05:10.000 Make me feel like capable to seek for happiness in a much more proper way.

01:05:16.000 And make sure also the development of my warrior tools, not only physical, technical, but also the mindset, the emotional, and also the spiritual aspect of acceptance.

01:05:31.000 Shows I've been through a lot and give my exposure of my life, of things I did to resolve the matters.

01:05:40.000 So it's a very special...

01:05:41.000 I mean, I hope you like it, because if you don't like it, I don't have another life to tell you.

01:05:48.000 But the tale of my life is basically on, you know, my experience, my life on Rio, which is very, very unpredictable, very wild.

01:05:58.000 My relationship with my father, my brothers, my growing up as a jiu-jitsu practitioner, my times of parties in Brazil.

01:06:09.000 So it's all my life, which I felt like even my mistakes I used to become a better person.

01:06:17.000 So it was a process, an evolutionary process, which I'm very proud of it because today, even though I'm physically destroyed, like my back is bad, I have so many injuries, I feel like I'm still using jiu-jitsu in a very proper way through breathing,

01:06:34.000 through visualization, through spiritual guidance, and I take all the information I have as a fighter to live my life and know how important it is to To live my life under those guidance,

01:06:49.000 under those things I really believe and make a difference.

01:06:53.000 And this exposes my life in a way to give people, through my experience, the options or the ideas to really reinvent themselves and become better.

01:07:06.000 Last time I saw you, you were talking to me about your back.

01:07:09.000 So your back is still bothering you?

01:07:11.000 Yeah, my back is going downhill since last time I saw you.

01:07:14.000 Really?

01:07:15.000 Yes.

01:07:15.000 Because I have no more bones and no more discs in between bones.

01:07:20.000 So it's just bone to bone.

01:07:22.000 I heard about steam cells.

01:07:25.000 I heard about different things.

01:07:27.000 My doctor said I have to do surgery.

01:07:30.000 But at this point, I do exercise.

01:07:33.000 I put myself with much less effort to practice Jiu Jitsu and stuff, so I reduce my activities.

01:07:41.000 And I start to live like an old man, you know? 0.98

01:07:43.000 It's just not exactly something I prefer.

01:07:47.000 But with the mindset, you can just change things and give you pleasures and things you used to not have.

01:07:54.000 Just today, my walking with the dog, something which gives me a pleasure which I didn't have before, you know.

01:08:00.000 So I start to adapt myself to still be happy, to still be on top of my game, with less physicality, with less compromise with, you know...

01:08:12.000 Doing things, so I start to become more peaceful in my mind and my body.

01:08:16.000 Your father trained jiu-jitsu deep into his 90s, right?

01:08:20.000 Yes.

01:08:21.000 Not training, but showing.

01:08:24.000 This aspect, I still can do it.

01:08:27.000 I cannot live without it.

01:08:28.000 Showing positions, play on the mat, enhancing people's details.

01:08:33.000 Those things are priceless for me, and I will do this for the rest of my life.

01:08:38.000 But I'm talking about my personal, you know, surfing or practice or, you know, Crohn invited me to practice with him.

01:08:46.000 If I train in five minutes with him today, it's going to be five months of physiotherapy after.

01:08:51.000 So things like that, I start to stay away from.

01:08:54.000 But other than that, I'm okay.

01:08:56.000 So have you talked to any specialists about stem cells and whether or not they can help you?

01:09:03.000 Yes.

01:09:04.000 Steam cells, first, are very cheap.

01:09:07.000 It's not cheap.

01:09:08.000 And I still cash in to go if I have to.

01:09:12.000 I heard some good things about it.

01:09:14.000 I'm not sure.

01:09:16.000 But the last doctor I spoke with was a neurosurgeon.

01:09:20.000 He said in my case, It will be hard to create new tissues and new discs and creating spaces again.

01:09:28.000 I mean, my process of degeneration is very, very aggressive.

01:09:34.000 So he suggests me a surgery, a fusion of vertebras and stuff, which I feel like, even though if I fix one, the damage in the other vertebras can get worse.

01:09:47.000 I just try to keep a mellow life and start to feel like those injuries become like a gift from God.

01:09:55.000 You know, it's something which I milk my body so much, I have to pay the bills now.

01:10:00.000 And it's nothing I have to do.

01:10:01.000 Oh, I have to be good.

01:10:02.000 I'm impatient.

01:10:04.000 I have, you know, I have to...

01:10:05.000 No, it's not like that.

01:10:07.000 I have done with my body enough, more than enough.

01:10:10.000 So whatever I have left, I'm happy with.

01:10:14.000 That's a beautiful attitude about it.

01:10:17.000 The disc degeneration issue is a factor with all jiu-jitsu practitioners.

01:10:23.000 I've had a bunch of disc problems over the years.

01:10:27.000 I've found some training methods to mitigate it, specifically some different pieces of equipment that provide you with spinal decompression.

01:10:38.000 There's a piece of equipment that I talk about all the time on this podcast called the Reverse Hyper.

01:10:43.000 It actually allows you to strengthen all the muscles around the spine, but it actively decompresses the spine as well at the same time.

01:10:52.000 Yes.

01:10:53.000 I like to stay on the pool with weights on my waist and weights on my feet.

01:11:00.000 In the deep pool with a flotation device.

01:11:04.000 So I'm hanging on the weights, stretching my spine, and I still exercise with the legs.

01:11:11.000 It's been very helpful, but, you know, it's just minimizing a little bit, but the problem is there.

01:11:16.000 Yeah.

01:11:17.000 Well, I'm hoping that stem cells get to the point where they can regenerate new tissue in between the discs.

01:11:23.000 I know they've had some success with doing that, but I don't know how much success.

01:11:29.000 From your lips to God's ears.

01:11:30.000 Let me know.

01:11:32.000 Wouldn't it be amazing if you could start rolling again?

01:11:34.000 Oh man, unbelievable.

01:11:35.000 Yeah, every jujitsu guy who gets to a certain age, they reach that point.

01:11:39.000 Except Jean-Jacques.

01:11:40.000 Sean Jock's amazing.

01:11:41.000 Yes.

01:11:42.000 He's always been so smart in how he trains.

01:11:44.000 He always trains very easy and light.

01:11:46.000 That guy has no injuries.

01:11:48.000 Yes.

01:11:48.000 He's a good example of a perfect warrior.

01:11:52.000 He's so smart in how he trains and just never explodes.

01:11:56.000 Everything is slow progression.

01:11:59.000 Yes.

01:11:59.000 Perfect defense.

01:12:00.000 And you see the knot just tied up around your neck and eventually say, okay, it's time to tap.

01:12:05.000 Yep.

01:12:06.000 Yeah, it's just, it's very, to me, it's very inspirational how he's managed to avoid injuries.

01:12:13.000 Yes.

01:12:13.000 And still can train hard.

01:12:15.000 Yes, very much.

01:12:17.000 Do you do any kind of exercise other than the pool stuff nowadays?

01:12:22.000 I do what we can say the physiotherapy ones, you know, the good, the proper abdominals, sit-ups, and the way I do my, like, superman positions for enhance the back.

01:12:35.000 I do some gym work like machines and stuff, but nothing too crazy.

01:12:40.000 Do you do any yoga anymore or any of the gymnastica natural?

01:12:45.000 Yes, I do a little bit.

01:12:47.000 Not to enhance mobility because that can Great problems, yeah.

01:12:54.000 But more for breathing, for the movements, for the circulate the energy, yes.

01:13:00.000 You were also probably the first in Jiu Jitsu that emphasized flexibility.

01:13:05.000 You were always very, very flexible and mobile.

01:13:09.000 Yeah, I disagree.

01:13:11.000 As part of Jiu Jitsu, we're all flexible.

01:13:14.000 All the cousins, flexibility was part of the idea of Jiu Jitsu, you know, is a thin tree which the storm comes, they bend and they go back normal.

01:13:26.000 A big tree will fall and break.

01:13:29.000 So you don't want to be hard and tense.

01:13:31.000 You want to be flexible and allow yourself to just smooth your escape out like Roudini.

01:13:37.000 So Jiu Jitsu has a lot to do with the mechanism, the mechanism of escaping and development of angles and senses.

01:13:45.000 So all the family is flexible.

01:13:47.000 I really like the biogynastica and also like the movements, the expressing myself.

01:13:56.000 So I always like to dance.

01:13:58.000 I like to exercise freely.

01:14:01.000 So I may develop a little more than others, but pretty much it's part of Jiu Jitsu being flexible.

01:14:07.000 But your flexibility was always very extreme though, like when you stand on a balance bar and do a standing split and hold your leg up in the air.

01:14:13.000 Yes.

01:14:14.000 That's pretty incredible.

01:14:15.000 Yes, it's good.

01:14:17.000 How much of that, that must have also enhanced your ability to perform certain positions?

01:14:23.000 I was worried about everything.

01:14:25.000 So I could not let my tightness get away from me to do a position.

01:14:30.000 So I was flexible.

01:14:31.000 And I also very focused.

01:14:33.000 I was the first one to see elastic exercise.

01:14:38.000 I did myself.

01:14:39.000 I didn't always exist.

01:14:41.000 Now people do elastics a lot.

01:14:43.000 But I was going to the diving shop to buy the diving rubber to put in the spear guns.

01:14:52.000 To take home and making a harness on my head.

01:14:55.000 So I was working with the functional strength at a very early age.

01:15:00.000 And you just figured that out on your own?

01:15:01.000 Yeah, I just figured it out.

01:15:02.000 Because I remember that in Choke, that you had that rubber band around your head, you're working on your neck muscles, and that's very similar to a thing that I use now that they sell called the Iron Neck.

01:15:13.000 Yes.

01:15:14.000 Because, you know, When you use the strengthening with elastics, you have resistance for you to do throws, you know, because if it's static, But when it's pulling off, you have to do the energy of pulling and moving your hip connected to not losing the momentum.

01:15:33.000 So with the elastics, you have a good training for throws, good training for bass, good training for movement, for balance, for neck strength, for shoulder strength.

01:15:44.000 So it's a lot of things coming from the bottom and stretch up with the elastics.

01:15:49.000 Make a continuous energy.

01:15:51.000 From the functional aspect.

01:15:54.000 So I really like the exercise with elastics because it gives me a complete idea and also flexibility and so on.

01:16:00.000 But you figured all this out on your own.

01:16:02.000 Yeah, I'm a lucky smart guy.

01:16:04.000 You're a lucky smart guy, yeah.

01:16:06.000 But it's amazing how many people use them now though.

01:16:08.000 Strikers, judo guys, all kinds of athletes use it for functional training.

01:16:13.000 Yes.

01:16:14.000 And breathing, too.

01:16:15.000 I see a lot of people, like tennis players, using breathing.

01:16:19.000 So the idea of using breathing functionally makes all the difference because if you don't know how to breathe in, you can be an athlete, but you're going to get caught tired with the blood, not enough blood, oxygen in your blood in your brain,

01:16:35.000 so you start to make important decisions and stuff.

01:16:39.000 When you know how to hyperventilate, You change the game of your performance.

01:16:45.000 I increase maybe 40% after learning how to breathe.

01:16:49.000 40%?

01:16:50.000 40% solid improvement of how to recover, how to last longer, everything.

01:16:57.000 It's interesting.

01:16:58.000 You say that Stylebender, the UFC middleweight champion, has recently started incorporating breath work, and he said it's made a tremendous difference.

01:17:06.000 Yes.

01:17:06.000 And he said, I will never gas out in a fight again.

01:17:09.000 He goes, now I understand how to control my breath.

01:17:11.000 Yeah, not only gas out, you become much more resilient for fighting, but your brain becomes clear because when you start to get tired, you don't push oxygen to your brain, so you become dummy and make important decisions, so functioning in every aspect of your life.

01:17:29.000 And that's why you decided to title the book Breathe.

01:17:32.000 Yes.

01:17:33.000 The breed was maybe the big change in my life. 0.76

01:17:36.000 It was when I learned how to breed.

01:17:37.000 I started to bring in more spiritual possibilities, more mental possibilities.

01:17:42.000 Because what is interesting about the breeding aspect is the brain and the heart are the only organs who can give and receive information.

01:17:57.000 The other organs, liver, kidney, they cannot do that.

01:18:01.000 But when you get upset with something mentally, you bring information to yourself immediately.

01:18:07.000 Your brain is responding.

01:18:09.000 Your heart too, when you get depressed, immediately you feel in your heart.

01:18:12.000 And your heart show you, you said, show you, it's immediately connection.

01:18:18.000 And what is amazing about that is the lung is the practical aspect within you who are able to control or help your brain and also help your heart.

01:18:32.000 So through the proper breathing, you can control your heartbeats.

01:18:36.000 Through the proper breathing, you can control your mindset and get calmer, control your panic, control your courage, control everything you need in the mental aspect and also spiritual, hope, faith, visualizations.

01:18:53.000 So all the elements in your brain, all the elements in your heart can be much better guided, much better helped If you don't know how to involve your lungs in your brain, in your breathing, you're not able to favor your brain and your heart the way it's supposed to be.

01:19:17.000 It's kind of amazing that everybody breathes, but a relatively small percentage of people know how to breathe correctly.

01:19:24.000 Yes. 1.00

01:19:25.000 You're born, you get slapped on your butt. 1.00

01:19:29.000 And you think you're alive and well and you breathe for life. 1.00

01:19:32.000 It's not like that.

01:19:34.000 The first learning you learn about breathing is to move the upper body, the upper part of your lung.

01:19:45.000 If you don't learn, if you don't practice, you're never going to use the diaphragmatic breathing, which involves the full capacity of your lungs.

01:19:53.000 So the diaphragm, when you learn how to move your diaphragm efficiently, you fill up your lungs in a different way.

01:20:01.000 So if I breathe right, or wrong, either more or less oxygen, up to me the way I use the diaphragmatic or not.

01:20:14.000 So when I learn how to use that, I'm able to help my body in whatever it needs, mental, spiritual, or physical.

01:20:23.000 That famous scene in Choke, when you're moving your stomach around with the drums beating, it's really crazy.

01:20:29.000 People love that scene because you're using that control of your diaphragm.

01:20:35.000 How did you learn how to do that?

01:20:38.000 The Orlando Cunning.

01:20:39.000 He taught you how to do that?

01:20:40.000 He taught me, yes.

01:20:41.000 And how long did it take before you could move your stomach like that?

01:20:44.000 I know Crohn can do that too, right?

01:20:46.000 Yeah, it's not as difficult.

01:20:47.000 You can learn this in no time.

01:20:49.000 You just need the right instruction because it's all about...

01:20:52.000 It's a quick learning, you know?

01:20:54.000 It's just you have to put some attention.

01:20:57.000 Because when you learn how to breathe, you start adding oxygen to your life.

01:21:04.000 You can stay seven days without food, five days without water, but five minutes without the air, you're dead.

01:21:10.000 So when you know how to hyperventilate, it's like double your life, triple your lifetime, because you don't get tired as you want.

01:21:18.000 When you say hyperventilate, what do you mean by hyperventilate?

01:21:20.000 I'm here calm.

01:21:22.000 Right.

01:21:23.000 If I do this, I breathe.

01:21:28.000 If I want to go dive, I need to hyperventilate.

01:21:32.000 So I need to...

01:21:34.000 Because I increase the circulation of oxygen in my body and I increase the oxygen on the cells.

01:21:47.000 So I do hyperventilation for a little while and I triple the amount of time I'm going to be under the water.

01:21:55.000 Another important thing for people to learn about breathing is...

01:22:00.000 The idea of inhale, the inhale is not the cause, it's the solution.

01:22:08.000 So if I need a full lung, a full breath, I don't want to just do...

01:22:14.000 If I want a full breath, I first need to...

01:22:17.000 Now...

01:22:22.000 I have a full breath.

01:22:24.000 Because if I just start from here, I already have 30% of air inside, which isn't empty enough.

01:22:30.000 So in order for me to put it all in, 100% of good air inside, my liveness, my attention has to be on the exhale.

01:22:43.000 Now I'm ready to get there.

01:22:46.000 The effort, the strength on the muscle, if I need to get a big biceps, I need to curl.

01:22:54.000 If I need to have a strong breathing system, I need to exhale.

01:23:00.000 The inhale is natural.

01:23:03.000 Some people, they feel tired.

01:23:04.000 I need air.

01:23:06.000 They go against the flow because they try to bring in, which is already claustrophobic.

01:23:15.000 More I need air, more I... Oh, my God.

01:23:22.000 So my liveness, my focus is to take the bad gas out of me.

01:23:26.000 The good gas coming naturally.

01:23:29.000 Some people say, I need air.

01:23:31.000 They need air, but they're already full of bad gas.

01:23:34.000 So that makes a big confusion on the right way should the gas come in or out.

01:23:40.000 So my organization in my brain is to put the bad gas out of me.

01:23:45.000 So when I'm training consistently, I... If I'm not effective on the exhale, I'm not going to be effective on the inhale.

01:24:00.000 And the liveness of my muscle system is the contraction.

01:24:04.000 The contraction is the diaphragmatic breathing.

01:24:08.000 This is a contraction.

01:24:10.000 If I do a curl for getting strong biceps, that's the contraction.

01:24:14.000 When I do this, I relax, contract.

01:24:18.000 So contract, relax.

01:24:24.000 So, and that's giving me a different edge to understand clearly everything around me.

01:24:30.000 It's interesting because it's so counterintuitive.

01:24:32.000 The body naturally wants this.

01:24:34.000 Yes, and you get panic and claustrophobic.

01:24:37.000 Yeah, panic breathing.

01:24:39.000 And that's, you really learned that in jiu-jitsu, like the good guys all know how to stay calm and breathe well in hard rolls.

01:24:47.000 Yes, very important.

01:24:49.000 So, did you decide to write this book during the pandemic?

01:24:54.000 Yes.

01:24:55.000 Yes.

01:24:55.000 I have a good friend who helped me to write, Peter Maguire.

01:24:59.000 We've been friends forever, and he's a scholar, very smart guy.

01:25:03.000 And he was talking to me forever about doing a book.

01:25:06.000 But I never...

01:25:07.000 I mean, something you do like, okay, let's have a trip to Japan.

01:25:12.000 So you don't know exactly when it's going to happen or something.

01:25:14.000 Just, okay, let's keep this in mind.

01:25:17.000 With the pandemic, things getting more like...

01:25:20.000 You know, stuck, stagnant.

01:25:22.000 Yeah.

01:25:23.000 And the idea come up and we have the time and the effort and the whole situation to put it together.

01:25:28.000 Did you do any teaching at all during the pandemic?

01:25:32.000 Yes.

01:25:32.000 Privates, some internet teaching, some instructions.

01:25:37.000 Now I have a Hickson.academy which provides teaching through the internet.

01:25:44.000 So is it Hickson.academy.com?

01:25:47.000 Just Hickson.academy.

01:25:49.000 Oh, the academy is actually a destination now?

01:25:51.000 Yes.

01:25:51.000 Oh, interesting.

01:25:53.000 So, and that is for, you just put up all stages of jiu-jitsu?

01:26:00.000 How do you have that set up?

01:26:02.000 Yeah, it's all there.

01:26:03.000 But my focus now, because something average happened in almost every academy, is for every 10 students who come in today, eight will leave in less than six months.

01:26:16.000 Because the progressiveness of the classes sometimes too soon gonna put you with a monster.

01:26:22.000 That means a younger guy who tried to beat you.

01:26:26.000 And sometimes that experience can be harmful because you don't have the heart, you don't have the spirit for fighting.

01:26:33.000 You go there to training, to practice.

01:26:35.000 And some strong kid hurt you or don't care about you.

01:26:40.000 And you feel like, wow, man, I'm not here to get hurt.

01:26:42.000 I'm a musician.

01:26:43.000 I hurt my finger.

01:26:45.000 So and then for any reason you quit.

01:26:48.000 I feel like that kind of situation...

01:26:52.000 We'll keep, we'll preserve the warriors.

01:26:54.000 We'll preserve the ones who get injured, put ice and come back next day.

01:26:58.000 Who gets the mindset, oh, a guy beat me up.

01:27:01.000 Tomorrow I go there to make my revenge.

01:27:03.000 So those guys, they keep jiu-jitsu forever.

01:27:06.000 And they will take what it needs to grow in their jiu-jitsu lifestyle.

01:27:11.000 They will become better persons.

01:27:13.000 But the eight guys who quit, I felt like they not favored because...

01:27:19.000 The exposure of jiu-jitsu for them was not exactly perfect to engage them in a lifetime practice.

01:27:26.000 So my proposal now, my ideas now, is not only to enforce the top guys who are good, effectiveness, and competing.

01:27:36.000 Instead, I like to create a bigger base, creating more people who are unaware of jiu-jitsu, become comfortable to practice jiu-jitsu, and take advantage of what jiu-jitsu can give to them.

01:27:50.000 So if I put competition, if I put sparring, I'm not going to have the result I want.

01:27:55.000 So I want to empower the guys by developing them on the senses they have and they don't know.

01:28:02.000 The leverage, the base, the capacity to angle themselves, the timing, the deflections, the connection.

01:28:09.000 So all the elements are there to serve you.

01:28:13.000 And they will be...

01:28:14.000 You're going to be very happy to learn without...

01:28:18.000 The egocentric aspect, the competitiveness, the disappointment, everything gonna happen if I allowed you to practice.

01:28:28.000 So the first year in this program has no opponents.

01:28:33.000 The first year in this program has only training partners.

01:28:37.000 Where the guy is going to help you to understand the better angle of your chin, the better weight distribution, how you hold, how you throw.

01:28:44.000 So you're going to learn techniques.

01:28:46.000 You're going to learn to enhance yourself with possibilities without the emotional aspect, without the frustration, without the hurting.

01:28:56.000 In the end of this process, because at this point you get no collar belt, nothing.

01:29:02.000 You're going to say after a year, Master, what about competition?

01:29:06.000 What about blue belt?

01:29:08.000 I want to say, okay, you can go for the blue belt.

01:29:10.000 Where are you going to start your fighting against a guy who don't want to let you do?

01:29:16.000 You want to try past John Gard, but John is not going to let you do it.

01:29:20.000 So it's going to be a fight there, and you're going to have to get used to the fight aspect.

01:29:24.000 If you like that, you're going to keep for blue belt, purple belt, brown belt, great.

01:29:29.000 If you don't like that because you felt too violent or too aggressive or too brutal or whatever, you stick with the fundamentals for life because here you're going to get fit, you're going to get sharp in your possibilities to deflect a punch, to not get punched in the face, to don't get to know how to escape,

01:29:45.000 and you're not going to fight.

01:29:46.000 You're just going to learn in practice and get lean.

01:29:50.000 You're going to get...

01:29:52.000 Everything you need from fighting, but everything you need from jiu-jitsu to empower you, to give you a sense of balance.

01:30:00.000 More sharpness in your mind, more reflexes, so the ability for you to become a fighter is not there, but the ability for you to learn about yourself and know everything you can do in case of an eventual situation will be there for you for the rest of your life.

01:30:18.000 So how do you have this structured?

01:30:19.000 Do you have it structured so that a person learns with another person, so that you get together with a friend and you go over the program together?

01:30:27.000 Yes, it can be this, or it can be for teachers who learn how to teach and press this for their students.

01:30:33.000 Because the way for you to teach without competing is just demonstrating positions in a high level of understanding.

01:30:44.000 So how to escape from a headlock?

01:30:46.000 How to escape from a mount position?

01:30:47.000 And you can do this, you can elbow escape, you can sweep, you can...

01:30:51.000 So you go over positions and resistance, control resistance and angles.

01:30:56.000 So you start to not fight in Jiu Jitsu, but learn Jiu Jitsu, the way it's supposed to be, without putting your ego to the proof.

01:31:04.000 Yeah.

01:31:06.000 You understand?

01:31:06.000 Yeah, I do.

01:31:07.000 It is a beautiful thing, the ability to learn online now, that there's so much information that a person can get from a program like yours that ordinarily would take years and years and years of practice in school.

01:31:19.000 Yes, I feel like that, yes.

01:31:22.000 What are your thoughts on grappling dummies, on practicing on like a grappling dummy?

01:31:26.000 Do you think there's any benefit of that?

01:31:29.000 Maybe for a specific move, if you want to take something from the floor or eventually throw or something or strikes or positions or moving knee on the belly, they can have some benefit because you don't have to have a body, actual somebody.

01:31:44.000 But in terms of practice, the practice of two people are better because you can have the change of angles and the acceptance of resistance and know how to because it's always a flow.

01:31:59.000 When the guy tries to do something, either you're going to follow that situation, or if he resists, you're going to flow to another.

01:32:07.000 So you need that sense of the ability to exchange directions and obey the energy of the flow.

01:32:16.000 What has it been like?

01:32:18.000 I've been here for the past year now.

01:32:20.000 What has it been like in Los Angeles as far as academies?

01:32:25.000 We're not yet getting out of the woods yet.

01:32:29.000 Things are getting better.

01:32:30.000 People start to become more confident to practice, but the schools are still not quite open for everybody, still like limited.

01:32:39.000 And I hope it starts to get better now, but the situation is not, you know, even now with this new variant, people start to become more freaked out yet and start now to start to create, I heard they're going to create a mandate.

01:32:54.000 For you to prove you're vaccinated if you want to go to a gym, if you want to go to the airport, if you want to go wherever you have to prove yourself that you're vaccinated.

01:33:03.000 So things are not easy now, but we're getting there, we're getting better.

01:33:07.000 That's what they've done in New York.

01:33:08.000 Yes.

01:33:09.000 They've decided to do that in New York.

01:33:10.000 But the problem is, of course, that you can still get it if you're vaccinated and you can still spread it if you're vaccinated.

01:33:17.000 One of my friends in Los Angeles at the Comedy Store, he was vaccinated.

01:33:22.000 We're good to go.

01:33:39.000 But the idea of only allowing vaccinated people, what they need to do is have some sort of rapid test, like we did here today.

01:33:46.000 Yes.

01:33:47.000 What we do before every podcast.

01:33:49.000 If they could make that more affordable and make it more accessible and have a really accurate, rapid test and just have people, when they come to train, test them.

01:33:58.000 Yeah, that's the idea.

01:34:00.000 But I don't know how things gonna go from here, man.

01:34:03.000 It's just crazy.

01:34:04.000 Yeah, it is pretty crazy.

01:34:06.000 Yeah, and the controversy, you know, the conspiracy is all about...

01:34:11.000 Now people become political either against or forward.

01:34:16.000 They don't see the...

01:34:19.000 I mean, it's hard to debate science and politics and what it is.

01:34:23.000 So I think it's hard to get an opinion about it because you're always going to have somebody who's going against what you say.

01:34:32.000 So it's important to do what you feel better.

01:34:35.000 Well, it's also one of the things that we talked about earlier, that there's a lot of people that never have experienced real adversity in their life, and they're not prepared for uncomfortable scenarios, so they look to blame.

01:34:48.000 And so they look to blame other people, whether they look to blame the unvaccinated people, or they look to blame certain doctors, or they look to blame the pharmaceutical companies.

01:34:58.000 They're looking for an enemy.

01:35:01.000 And a lot of times these people are not looking at their own situation in terms of what can they do to empower their own health.

01:35:09.000 But instead they're trying to find enemies out there.

01:35:13.000 Yes, and the most important is to keep your Your capacity to fight those virus, your immune system is strong, a lot of sauna, a lot of things that are good for you,

01:35:29.000 and you just keep living life.

01:35:32.000 Yeah, vitamins, healthy food, exercise, and yet those are the things that you never get encouraged to do.

01:35:40.000 Yeah.

01:35:42.000 I mean, if there's ever been a time where we should have encouraged people to exercise, now is the time.

01:35:47.000 Eat healthy, exercise, lose weight.

01:35:49.000 It's simple.

01:35:51.000 It's always been there for us.

01:35:53.000 It's always been there for us.

01:35:54.000 Well, that's one of the real fortunate things in my life is finding martial arts at an early age.

01:36:04.000 So from the time I was a teenager, it's always been my life.

01:36:07.000 It's always been a part of my life, and I never stopped.

01:36:11.000 I've tried to express that to people as much as possible.

01:36:15.000 It's a great benefit.

01:36:17.000 And also it was a great benefit to me to, as I was 27 or 28, start from scratch.

01:36:25.000 In jujitsu.

01:36:26.000 So to have competency in striking and to be a good striker and then go into something where I was a complete beginner was very, very valuable for me.

01:36:35.000 Now you master both.

01:36:37.000 Not quite.

01:36:39.000 I'm mediocre at both.

01:36:41.000 But the point is that I learned how to start.

01:36:46.000 It's very good for your ego to be shot down and to become a beginner again.

01:36:52.000 And so few people ever have that opportunity in life to do something very difficult, where you're really starting from the beginning as a white belt. 0.98

01:37:00.000 Yes.

01:37:01.000 If you see in the perspective of martial arts, it's the capacity you have to deal with warfare situations.

01:37:09.000 And as part of the warfare situations, fight for happiness.

01:37:15.000 So fighting is not about physicality.

01:37:19.000 Fighting is about Achieve, conquer.

01:37:25.000 You know, so the conquering can be conquering a car, conquering a new girlfriend, education of your kids.

01:37:32.000 So whatever you accomplish, you should feel happy about it.

01:37:35.000 And in order for you to accomplish something, I don't believe in luck.

01:37:40.000 I believe in work.

01:37:42.000 So you have to be Putting things together, you have to have a right strategy, the right mindset, the courage, the capacity to visualize what you want.

01:37:55.000 So all the elements and the tools of the warrior have to be used almost on a daily basis for you to live life.

01:38:03.000 Life is a mini battle.

01:38:06.000 You know, it's a battle you do to just conquer everything you're seeking for.

01:38:11.000 And if you don't, you feel frustrated.

01:38:13.000 If you achieve, you'll be happy.

01:38:15.000 And martial arts give you the sense of self-control, spirituality, the capacity to engage, the courage.

01:38:23.000 So you've been testing yourself in martial arts practice to really bring this to life and expose this and bring this alive in life.

01:38:32.000 Just to conquer a new job, just to be a good father or something.

01:38:36.000 I think that's one of the most valuable aspects of martial arts.

01:38:39.000 Definitely.

01:38:40.000 And it's one of the aspects that the people who don't practice it, they're not aware of it.

01:38:45.000 They don't understand the extreme value.

01:38:48.000 There's obviously value in learning martial arts and learning how to defend yourself, learning how to beat opponents.

01:38:55.000 There's value in that, but there's extreme value in learning how to deal with difficult circumstances, learning how to overcome.

01:39:03.000 Yes, because the idea of developing your practice within martial arts doesn't take you from using those practice in life.

01:39:14.000 And the connection between both very much is always there.

01:39:18.000 So if you're not experiencing martial arts, you don't experience the ability for you to resolve problems.

01:39:24.000 And I feel like what is important in the practice is exactly the fact that the practice cannot be Strong enough for you to diminish your desire to practice.

01:39:43.000 You have to add practice at will to grow in your process.

01:39:48.000 So that's why sometimes a lot of people fall short in the continuous martial arts practice because sometimes the practice becomes too hard and trespass the limits for him, his capabilities.

01:40:03.000 So I feel like martial arts now has to be taught And a very good sense from breeding to positioning for kids, for executives, for older people, for anyone, for women, for housewives, because it's a practice.

01:40:19.000 You start to understand yourself without limitations and develop better qualities to become a mother, to become an executive, an entrepreneur, anything.

01:40:30.000 Yeah, I couldn't agree more, and I think it's something that I think every young man should learn.

01:40:37.000 I think there's too many men that go through life without any martial arts experience, and I just think it's one of the reasons why there's so much conflict.

01:40:44.000 Especially in those days, because I feel like life today dehumanizes you.

01:40:51.000 Robotics, technology, internet, they take you from the present.

01:40:58.000 So, in the internet, you have your best picture, your best saying, and you put yourself as a character.

01:41:05.000 But when you go shake hand of somebody, look at somebody in the eye, ask for a job, ask for a date or something, you lost the ability to communicate.

01:41:15.000 So Jiu Jitsu and other martial arts too give you that sense of direct connection, the hug, the sense, the breathing together.

01:41:23.000 So this brings a value not only for the aspect of learning martial arts, But to humanize you in a sense of using your senses, your power, your breathing, your heartbeat, your connection with your opponent's movements.

01:41:37.000 So all this has to do with the Being present, being connected, being human.

01:41:44.000 Develop your instincts.

01:41:45.000 And that's also another aspect which is priceless, regardless the effectiveness you have as a fighter.

01:41:51.000 I could not agree more, and I think there's no better martial art than jiu-jitsu for that, for expressing who you are as a person.

01:41:59.000 Because you're learning so much about your limitations, your fears, your ability to overcome, your ability to learn, showing improvement because of your determination and discipline and hard work.

01:42:12.000 You can actually see it all play out.

01:42:13.000 It's very human, all while being acutely aware of your shortcomings and your strengths.

01:42:19.000 Yes.

01:42:20.000 It's the opposite of the internet, really.

01:42:22.000 Exactly.

01:42:22.000 Yeah, it's a very valuable thing that I think could...

01:42:26.000 I sing its praises as much as possible and I'm glad that a lot of people listen.

01:42:31.000 It's one of my most satisfying things is when I meet someone and maybe they're a black belt and they say, I started jujitsu because I heard you talk about it on your podcast.

01:42:40.000 That's great.

01:42:40.000 It makes me so happy.

01:42:41.000 It makes me so happy.

01:42:42.000 Me too.

01:42:45.000 So what is your time like these days?

01:42:47.000 What have you been doing with yourself?

01:42:50.000 I'm not doing much.

01:42:51.000 I'm doing my information through the website.

01:42:57.000 This platform is being my focus now.

01:43:00.000 I'm not doing too many seminars those days with those COVID things, but I will be back on seminars.

01:43:07.000 And I do exercise, you know, I have a loving wife, so I'm happy giving a peaceful life and trying to be at service, providing a good knowledge, a good understanding, a good possible solutions for a lot of people who are kind of practicing jiu-jitsu or wants to practice.

01:43:27.000 Do you think you're going to stay in Los Angeles?

01:43:29.000 For now, yes.

01:43:31.000 But in the future, I don't know.

01:43:33.000 It's a weird place now.

01:43:35.000 Yes, very weird, man.

01:43:36.000 I mean, a lot of turmoil there.

01:43:39.000 Yeah, it's strange to watch a place change so radically over a short period of time.

01:43:47.000 Yes.

01:43:49.000 But for me, now it's not even something to consider, you know?

01:43:52.000 I just stay there and living hell there and waiting for it to get better.

01:43:58.000 Do you have an academy there now?

01:44:00.000 No, no.

01:44:00.000 I just have a studio where I produce content for the internet.

01:44:05.000 And so whatever training you were doing, you were just doing privately at other people's places?

01:44:10.000 No, in my studio.

01:44:12.000 Because a little studio, I kind of put soundproof to be able to do recording and stuff.

01:44:18.000 But also has a good, nice matte area.

01:44:20.000 So I can teach up to six people.

01:44:22.000 It's okay.

01:44:23.000 I think I told you this, but the first time I ever did jiu-jitsu was at your place on Pico.

01:44:28.000 Oh, yeah?

01:44:28.000 But I just didn't know any better.

01:44:30.000 I thought...

01:44:31.000 All the Gracie schools were the same, and I found out there was one closer to me.

01:44:35.000 Carlson Gracie's, which was off of Harthorn, right off of Sunset Boulevard.

01:44:40.000 I'm like, oh, that's closer.

01:44:41.000 I'll go to that one instead.

01:44:42.000 I didn't know.

01:44:44.000 I wish I knew back then. 0.99

01:44:45.000 I didn't know shit. 0.99

01:44:48.000 Lucky me. 1.00

01:44:49.000 You didn't kick my ass that time. 1.00

01:44:51.000 Oh, get out of here. 1.00

01:44:55.000 It really was a perfect time to learn from you, too, because that was the time when you were competing in Japan Valley Tudo.

01:45:02.000 I mean, that was an amazing time for Jiu Jitsu, really.

01:45:07.000 Yes, it was a great time.

01:45:09.000 Have you ever thought about doing another documentary or having someone do another documentary on your life?

01:45:17.000 Because the documentary, Choke, was an amazing documentary, one of the best documentaries in all of martial arts, if not the best.

01:45:24.000 But it really was about Japan Vali Tudo.

01:45:28.000 It was really about your time representing and going over there and competing.

01:45:33.000 Have you ever thought about one about just your whole life in Jiu Jitsu, maybe even similar to this book?

01:45:39.000 Yes.

01:45:40.000 We are in a project now to start producing in the end of October or November for Netflix.

01:45:47.000 It's my life story, you know?

01:45:50.000 Oh, so you are doing something like this.

01:45:51.000 It's a combination of stories of myself and Maeda.

01:45:55.000 So before the project was to do one movie about Maeda coming from Japan, the history he has around the world, and then Sero and Brazil, and then begin The Gracie Family, eventually end up on me.

01:46:10.000 But now they split the movies, so they're gonna make one movie about Maeda, and they're gonna make one movie about myself.

01:46:17.000 And that's all done.

01:46:20.000 It's about to start pre-production very soon.

01:46:23.000 Beautiful.

01:46:24.000 Who's doing that?

01:46:26.000 Netflix and Giuseppe Adile will be the director.

01:46:28.000 Oh, great.

01:46:29.000 That's fantastic.

01:46:30.000 That's fantastic.

01:46:32.000 Good.

01:46:32.000 That's amazing news.

01:46:34.000 Because for some people, that's what they need to see.

01:46:38.000 They need to see how unusual and unique the art of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu's origins are.

01:46:46.000 It's so incredible.

01:46:47.000 And it's inexorably tied to your family.

01:46:50.000 Yes, that's very much.

01:46:53.000 There's no other martial art like it, really, where you can specifically see the individual family and the individual family member in your father that changed the course of martial arts forever.

01:47:07.000 Yes.

01:47:08.000 And there's no other martial arts who has this focus on being the best one and confront with other ones, open challenge, things like that, which is just coming from a crazy Brazilian family. 1.00

01:47:20.000 But because of that crazy Brazilian family, it answered all the questions that we had. 1.00

01:47:25.000 You know, when I was doing Taekwondo in the 1980s, everybody that I was training with, we thought Taekwondo was it.

01:47:32.000 This is all you needed to learn.

01:47:33.000 Couple of kicks and it's done.

01:47:36.000 And then for me, I started training boxing and Muay Thai.

01:47:41.000 And then I started getting beat up.

01:47:43.000 I was like, oh, I thought I knew more than I knew.

01:47:45.000 Then I went to Jiu-Jitsu and I was like, oh my God.

01:47:50.000 I've talked about it before, but one of the first days ever training, I was a white belt, and I was training with this kid who was a purple belt, and I thought I was a tough guy.

01:47:59.000 I couldn't believe that this guy could do whatever he wanted to me.

01:48:02.000 Play with you, huh?

01:48:03.000 Play with me. 0.97

01:48:04.000 Just strangle me.

01:48:05.000 And he wasn't bigger than me.

01:48:06.000 He was my size.

01:48:07.000 And he wasn't younger than me.

01:48:09.000 He was my age.

01:48:10.000 There was no excuses.

01:48:11.000 And this guy just manhandled me.

01:48:13.000 And I remember thinking that day, like, wow, I need to learn how to do that.

01:48:19.000 And I think that one humiliating day of training, because before that I trained with other white belts, you know, and it was... 0.99

01:48:26.000 Even kind of back and forth and stuff.

01:48:29.000 Yeah, it was clunky.

01:48:30.000 None of us knew what we were doing.

01:48:32.000 But then when I trained with one guy who was very serious, he was very aggressive, you know, he wasn't trying to take it easy on me, which was good.

01:48:39.000 It was a valuable lesson, but that was the seeds that was planted in my head about, I am going to learn how to do this.

01:48:45.000 I want to be like that guy someday.

01:48:47.000 Because I couldn't believe how easy it was.

01:48:49.000 Yes.

01:48:49.000 Because I wasn't out of shape, I was a strong guy, and yet I was getting manhandled.

01:48:55.000 Just tapped left and right, triangle, arm bar, choke.

01:49:00.000 I'm like, ugh.

01:49:01.000 Yeah, the amount of students I have who come in with a different background, with their possibilities and their ideas in their minds coming, Well, well, very much above that reality, you know?

01:49:15.000 Yes.

01:49:16.000 Because we don't want to make an enemy, as you prove a point.

01:49:20.000 So you want to be gentle, and the same way, you want to put him in a place for him to understand everything he knows is minimal.

01:49:29.000 It's not important.

01:49:31.000 And then the guys normally say, wow, man, I wasted 20 years of my life doing this, and now I discovered I have to relearn everything.

01:49:39.000 So it's an interesting aspect of...

01:49:42.000 Rebirth.

01:49:43.000 Yeah.

01:49:44.000 But that rebirth is very valuable because sometimes people, they hold on to their old ideas of what they're good at like a crutch.

01:49:52.000 Yes.

01:49:52.000 And it becomes a part of their identity.

01:49:55.000 Yes.

01:49:55.000 And so they know they're really good at it.

01:49:57.000 There was always an issue with that with guys who fought in MMA who came from striking backgrounds.

01:50:02.000 They didn't like to roll because they didn't like to tap.

01:50:06.000 So like maybe guys like world champion Muay Thai fighters, they never developed a good ground game.

01:50:10.000 They only wanted to learn defense.

01:50:12.000 Because they didn't like the fact that when they did Muay Thai, when they did stand-up training, they were the ones fucking people up. 0.86

01:50:19.000 But then when it came down to jiu-jitsu, they were helpless. 0.69

01:50:22.000 And they hated that feeling, so they would avoid it.

01:50:25.000 Yes.

01:50:25.000 And it happens with jiu-jitsu too, because some jiu-jitsu guys, they start lacking the possibility to clinch and to approach.

01:50:34.000 And they felt like, oh, I need to learn boxing, I need to learn wrestling.

01:50:39.000 So it becomes a cross-training, because...

01:50:41.000 For every aspect of style, you have always a weak aspect of it.

01:50:46.000 And you have to compensate with other tools.

01:50:50.000 You know, for me, I was never being a good striker.

01:50:54.000 But different than other jiu-jitsu practitioners, I was always putting a good striker to hit me.

01:51:00.000 So I was very comfortable to the distance, to neutralizing the distance, to use my side kick and clinch.

01:51:07.000 So I'm focused on the clinch, I'm focused on the On the approach of not getting punched, not exchange punches.

01:51:15.000 And when I clinch, either I go fall on top if I was capable to throw, or bring the guy to my guard and able to cook him and slow burn from the bottom. 0.85

01:51:25.000 Out of all your opponents over your entire career, do you think that your last one, Funaki, do you think he was the best?

01:51:33.000 Oh man, I don't think he was the best.

01:51:38.000 I think the situation he gets against me was the best situation because he was younger, he was heavier, he was in Japan and I got hurt on my eye and at this point when I was Half blind on my eye.

01:51:57.000 I could not see.

01:51:59.000 My brother tells me, stand up!

01:52:01.000 What is going on?

01:52:02.000 Go, go! 0.99

01:52:02.000 And I don't want to make excuses. 0.99

01:52:06.000 I don't want to talk to him.

01:52:07.000 I don't want to put my hand in my eye because I don't want to show the opponent I hurt.

01:52:14.000 So the guy was kicking me.

01:52:15.000 And every time he kicks, 70,000 people.

01:52:19.000 Oh! 0.60

01:52:20.000 Oh! 0.60

01:52:21.000 Japanese is very organized.

01:52:23.000 So they very much...

01:52:26.000 See in that situation.

01:52:27.000 And I'm ready with, I could not see very well because when you hit one eye, hits the both, the nerve optics, so you cannot see with both eyes, you cannot see very much.

01:52:40.000 Then I spent about 45 minutes, 45 seconds to recoup my one vision.

01:52:46.000 And as I recoup, I stood up, clinch again, and throw him down and mount and submit, put him to sleep.

01:52:55.000 But I was a very, a position of the fight, I could not explain how bad it was, but that's kind of put me in a situation where all my life was somehow passing through me because I went in a position which I,

01:53:15.000 in a fight, I confident I could win, but I was impotent, impotent.

01:53:20.000 So I was completely in a pause in a moment to see what's going to happen because I was not quitting.

01:53:27.000 I don't want to, I cannot go forward.

01:53:30.000 So in this 45 seconds, I was there waiting.

01:53:33.000 My whole life, you know, all my purpose, all my ideas passing through fast.

01:53:38.000 Until the point I was able to regain my ability to fight.

01:53:44.000 So that's kind of give me the sense of...

01:53:48.000 It's like, sure, I was sure I have this mindset, but I was not proved.

01:53:56.000 So when I confront my demons and keep my mindset above everything and everything under control, I felt like was my...

01:54:06.000 It was a confirmation, but it was my biggest challenge.

01:54:09.000 So it took everything from me, but it was a confirmation I have everything I need to put it on.

01:54:17.000 So it was a very good experience.

01:54:19.000 It was a tough experience, but, you know, not because he was a great technician, but because the moment, the fight, the whole thing was very serious.

01:54:28.000 But did the injury, was it a fractured orbital?

01:54:31.000 Yeah, I have an orbital fracture.

01:54:34.000 The corner of the globe pushed my eyeball in.

01:54:39.000 So I look up, I just move one eye, the other eye, because it broke the bone on the eye, and the eye got caught, it could not move.

01:54:52.000 So I was looking, I just move in one eye, the other eye was stuck.

01:54:57.000 Did you have to get surgery to fix that?

01:54:58.000 Yes, I have to.

01:54:59.000 The surgery has to be in a week, so I come back in a couple of days to U.S. and did here in the UCLA with a good ophthalmologist.

01:55:08.000 And so they had to repair the back wall of your skull.

01:55:11.000 They take the eye, put a patch, put the eye back.

01:55:16.000 Wow.

01:55:17.000 And then exercise physiotherapy to exercise the eye muscles and then back to normal.

01:55:23.000 That's incredible.

01:55:24.000 It's incredible what they can do.

01:55:25.000 Yeah.

01:55:26.000 Medical science.

01:55:27.000 Yes.

01:55:27.000 The image, the video of you taking his back and choking him to sleep while his eyes were open is one of the great submission videos in the history of martial arts.

01:55:40.000 First of all, because it was such a tough fight, but the moment you got to that position when you mount, when you take his back, and then you put the choke in, and you see him out cold, and then you kick him off of you.

01:55:52.000 Because his mindset was not quit.

01:55:57.000 Actually, after the fight, he said he quit in fighting because he felt death.

01:56:03.000 And he was scared off the ceiling, so he wouldn't stop fighting.

01:56:07.000 Because he went to say, I don't want to tap.

01:56:10.000 I prefer to get killed and not tap. 0.98

01:56:12.000 So he died. 0.99

01:56:13.000 I mean, in his mind, he died because he passed out consciously.

01:56:18.000 He accepted death.

01:56:20.000 So it was a bad experience for him, but that's the only one I feel like I could give to him.

01:56:28.000 That's perfect.

01:56:30.000 Especially for a warrior like him, a guy who had fought a long time.

01:56:35.000 He was very experienced.

01:56:37.000 He was a guy that a lot of people were interested to see you fight because they felt like some of the guys that you had fought, you know, like Takata or some of these other guys, they were very big and they were very strong, but they weren't at your level.

01:56:49.000 Yes.

01:56:49.000 And they felt like this was a guy that was going to test you.

01:56:52.000 Yes.

01:56:52.000 At first, again, the Japanese need the entertainment aspect to make a good business.

01:56:59.000 So they put me to fight against a pro wrestler who is, in Japan, pro wrestling is like Rio.

01:57:04.000 They believe in pro wrestling.

01:57:06.000 So the Takada guy, he was very famous, the number one pro wrestler.

01:57:11.000 So they tried to put him with me to just not only make a great business, but a good fight.

01:57:18.000 And that's what launched Pride.

01:57:19.000 Yes.

01:57:20.000 That was Pride 1. Yes.

01:57:21.000 But even before that...

01:57:23.000 His assistant, the bad guy on the association, Anjo, coming to fight me at my academy, like a surprise fight.

01:57:32.000 Yeah.

01:57:32.000 Yeah, we talked about that on the last podcast, and you said you still have that video.

01:57:36.000 Yes.

01:57:36.000 When are you going to release that video?

01:57:38.000 I'm going to show you before the release, the official release.

01:57:41.000 You think you're going to release it?

01:57:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:57:43.000 You should put it in the documentary.

01:57:45.000 Yes.

01:57:45.000 That would be a great way to get people excited about the documentary, too, because that video is legend.

01:57:50.000 Yes.

01:57:51.000 Everybody wants to see that video.

01:57:52.000 And it's very simple. 1.00

01:57:53.000 I just throw the guy on the floor, punch him in the face, break his nose, and put him to sleep. 0.99

01:57:57.000 It's nothing to see, that. 0.98

01:57:58.000 Yeah, but that's something to see.

01:58:01.000 It was in the corner of a very wood floor academy.

01:58:05.000 It was like a perfect scenario, you know?

01:58:07.000 It's just like a comité.

01:58:10.000 Yeah, it's a famous moment in the history of martial arts, though.

01:58:15.000 It was one of those times where one of these challenge matches had actually come to America, because we had heard about all these Gracie challenge matches, but either you watch them on videotape, or they happened in Brazil, or the different moments where...

01:58:30.000 You know, Luta Livre and Jiu Jitsu went at it in Brazil, but to see you, who is the main, the top guy in Jiu Jitsu, to someone to come to your academy and challenge you and get destroyed like that, that's a video that everybody wants to see.

01:58:44.000 Yeah, and what's funny, because once he come in, I give him a waiver, right?

01:58:47.000 A regular waiver just to relieve any injury or something.

01:58:52.000 And he looked at the waiver and said, in Japanese for his friend, I have to sign this to fight.

01:58:58.000 And then the guy coming to me, Mr. Gracie, you think he has to sign this to fight?

01:59:02.000 If he don't sign, you're not going to fight him?

01:59:06.000 Immediately, I felt like a double standard because if I say, no, he has to sign, he could leave and tell anything because he's a wrestler.

01:59:14.000 He's going to say, oh, the guy quit.

01:59:15.000 I'm here.

01:59:15.000 He's afraid.

01:59:17.000 So I said, no, no, no.

01:59:17.000 Forget the waiver.

01:59:19.000 Throw the waiver out. 0.59

01:59:20.000 He coming to fight.

01:59:21.000 Let's fight.

01:59:23.000 So it's no excuses.

01:59:26.000 Do you have any regrets in terms of like your competition career that you didn't?

01:59:32.000 Was there any particular fighters that you wish you had had an opportunity to fight?

01:59:36.000 The only fight I feel like was a missing was against Sakuraba.

01:59:42.000 Just when I after fight Funaki, I was offered the best fight in my life.

01:59:49.000 To fight Sakuraba in an event.

01:59:52.000 He's still the Gracie Killer. 1.00

01:59:54.000 He's still not yet fighting Vanderlei and other guys who kick his ass. 0.99

01:59:59.000 So he's still high level in terms of reputation and will be the fight I was seeking for in terms of financial, pull my donkey on the shade, everything. 0.94

02:00:12.000 But, unfortunately, I lost my son, and a couple of months later, my fight, and then after, I was, you know, have problems, emotional problems, family problems, I decided to focus on regaining my energy,

02:00:27.000 instead just focus on a fight, which could be able, for me personally, to focus on the training, but allowed my family to get Depressed, so I stay like a family guy, keeping my ex-wife, keeping my kids strong enough.

02:00:46.000 So that was the only one?

02:00:47.000 Yes, that's the only one.

02:00:48.000 That would have been an amazing one.

02:00:50.000 Yes.

02:00:51.000 If it wasn't for those problems, that would have been an amazing one.

02:00:53.000 Yeah.

02:00:55.000 Well, listen, you've had an amazing career, an amazing life, and you are, in my opinion, one of the most important people in the history of martial arts.

02:01:03.000 Thank you, my brother.

02:01:04.000 My pleasure, brother.

02:01:05.000 Honor to have you on.

02:01:06.000 Yes.

02:01:07.000 And thank you for everything.

02:01:09.000 Have you read the book yet?

02:01:10.000 I haven't.

02:01:10.000 I just got it.

02:01:11.000 Yes.

02:01:11.000 I just got it, but I will read it, and I'll post it on Instagram, and I'll let everybody know.

02:01:15.000 Maybe we can talk the next time about some things you're going to read on the book.

02:01:19.000 I would love that.

02:01:20.000 I would love that.

02:01:21.000 Thank you, my brother.

02:01:22.000 I appreciate it.

02:01:22.000 Thank you, my brother.

02:01:22.000 I appreciate you very much.

02:01:23.000 All the bless.

02:01:24.000 All right.

02:01:25.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 10, 2021

JRE MMA Show #114 with Rickson Gracie

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript