The Devil's Plan for Godlessness： Communist China
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Summary
Stephen Mosher, an expert on China and author of The Devil and Communist China, joins me to discuss his new book, The Devil in Communist China: A Comparison and Contrast between the Christian and Communist View of Humanity.
Transcript
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100 billion famines, purges, wars, plus 400 billion in the one-child policy, that's a half
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billion people. The killingest man in human history. You want to talk Stalin? The numbers
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don't come close. Mao was in power for longer than Hitler and Stalin put together, and he killed
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Hey, my friends, we are here with Stephen Mosher, whom all of you know. He is, of course,
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the expert on China who caused the U.S. government to stop funding UNFPA because they were giving to
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the one-child policy in China. Steve discovered that with his background, which was academic
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and involved with China. He's probably, not probably, he's the greatest China expert in
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America and perhaps around the world, seeing from the inside. Because remember, it's five Chinese
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languages that you speak or understand or are able to read. Well, a number of Chinese. The written
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language is all the same, so it doesn't matter whether it's Cantonese or Taiwanese or Fukanese
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or Mandarin, but the spoken language is very, very different. It's different as French and Spanish
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and Portuguese and Italian art. Okay. So, able to read from the inside, as it were, giving a glimpse
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and understanding that nobody else can get. You're going to want to stay tuned to this episode of
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Steve, so good to be with you. Good to be with you, John Henry.
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Let's begin, as you always do, with the sign of the cross.
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In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
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So, Steve, you've got a new book here. It is The Devil and Communist China, and it's just out now.
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It is by Tan. What is this for you? Because you've been studying this issue almost all your life now.
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Well, this book is several things. At one level, this book is a comparison and a contrast
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between two different views of humanity. You've got the Christian view of humanity,
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Christian civilization based on love, and then you've got the polar opposite view of communism.
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Communism is an ideology based on hate. It sows hatred. It feeds on hatred. The engine of destruction
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that is communism requires a constant fuel of hatred, hatred against the class, hatred against a religion,
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hatred against a minority, for example. So it's fueled by hatred. It's the polar opposite of the
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Christian civilization of life and love that we, as Catholics, are supposed to be promoting
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in the world. And I think you see its most clearest diabolical expression,
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not in the former Soviet Union so much, but in China today. That's our living example of communism
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running roughshod over people, over a culture, sowing hatred wherever it goes within China and around
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the world. Communism has enslaved one-seventh of humanity right now, and it lusts to enslave
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the rest through the instrument of the Chinese Communist Party. So I see it as it was an awakening for me,
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John Henry, when I went to China, because, you know, when I went to China, I had been taught
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at Stanford University that morals were relative, that everything was shades of gray. There was no
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good. There was no absolute evil. And I think that's the ethical system that most college students
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come away with now, thinking that evil doesn't really exist. Absolute good doesn't exist. Absolute evil
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doesn't exist. Well, I came in contact with absolute evil in China, witnessing the death of almost full-term
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healthy infants who were being killed for no other reason than that they were conceived in violation of
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the one-child policy. And so absolute evil did exist in China, does exist in China. And I think we need
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to make that clear to the world, especially to young people. Communism is not just another political
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system. It is not just a slightly to the left of socialism. It is a destructive, diabolical
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plan, if you will, of Satan to destroy the people and the world that God created for that people,
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namely human beings. You see, God is the author of life, right? He creates life. He creates souls.
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He creates bodies. The devil can create nothing. So what does the devil do? He destroys bodies.
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His greatest victory is to destroy the soul. He can't do that, so he can destroy the body instead.
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The vehicle he uses in our age to accomplish that is communism. Communism, the biggest killing machine
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in human history, much bigger than the furnaces of Baal. You know, during the days of the Canaanites
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and the Phoenicians, they were throwing live babies in. Death by thousands or maybe tens of thousands.
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We have deaths by now a hundred million, hundreds of millions of people due to communism.
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This is an interesting thing because a lot of people, when they think of the greatest evil in the
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world, they always think Nazi. You know, Hitler was the greatest evil that ever the planet ever faced.
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You know, there was six million Jews. There was, you know, six million probably others. And there was
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probably in the wars, 60 million laws. This is the greatest tragedy we've ever experienced.
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Why aren't we, first of all, give us the numbers with regard to communism. And then why are we not
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Well, I describe Chairman Mao accurately as the killingest man in human history. I know the grammar
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isn't quite correct there, but the killingest man in human history, he's responsible for literally
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hundreds of millions of deaths. How so? Well, first of all, there's the Chinese Civil War,
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which he viciously prosecuted with the help of the Soviet Union. He would not have won the war without
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the assistance of the Soviet Union throughout the 30s and 40s. He literally starved in entire Chinese
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cities to death during the Civil War. The city of Changchun in Manchuria, he cut off all food supplies.
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Hundreds of thousands of people died during the investment, the blockade of that city, quite
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deliberately. Mass graves everywhere. So tens of millions of people died during the Chinese Civil War.
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But then the purges, the persecutions began, the persecution of the Catholics. Anybody who was
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associated with the old regime, the nationalists, a member of a local militia, a member of the
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nationalist party, were taken out summarily and shot. In the village I studied in 1979 and 1980,
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they had a little mountain outside the village, Little Hill, called Little Turtle Mountain. That was
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the killing field for that village. And the former gentry, the Shansher, the people who ruled the
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village were the ones who were taken out and shot. Anybody who was found with a weapon was summarily
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executed. So guns, they collected the guns. And it went downhill from there to the land reform where
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anybody who owned a little bit of land was accused of being a rich peasant or a landlord and struggled
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by the community. Mao was very, very good at sowing hatred. Again, communism is based on hatred.
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And he figured out in the 1930s, when he was first in control of Jinggangshan, his first red base in South
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China, he figured out that he could divide a village of people in half between those who owned a little
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bit more and those who owned a little bit less. He could so envy among those who owned less of those
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who owned more and stick one group on the other, divide and conquer. And the dividing line was a pig,
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John Henry. If a family had raised a pig, they were considered to be a little bit wealthier than the
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rest of the village. And the village lusting for that poor would harass and target that family in a
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struggle session, sometimes torturing and killing them in return for a hunk of meat. That was how Mao
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sowed division among the rural population, setting those who worked very hard against those who
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had nothing because they hardly worked. So Mao was very, very good at that. And Mao directed
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in the beginning of his political career, he actually directed these killings. He actually
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had landlords arrested and urged people to stab them, kill them to death, death by a thousand cuts,
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for example. So he was directly involved in the killing from the beginning.
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The killing is banned in human history, really outdid himself in the great famine after the great
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leap forward. 1958, 1960, China was going to overtake Great Britain in steel production in three years.
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Crops were left to rot in the fields as everyone frantically was trying to make steel. They didn't
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know how to make steel. They just ripped out the iron bars out of the windows, took their cook pots,
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melted them down in backyard smelters and produced pig iron. All had to be re-smelted. It was useless,
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mostly. But the crops were left to rot in the fields. 50 million people starved to death
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in the famine after the great leap forward. From 1959 to 1961, 50 million people died in
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China as a direct result of Mao's mismanagement of the economy. The Communist Party blames it on
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weather. It wasn't weather. It was that the peasants weren't allowed to plant and harvest crops.
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They were busy doing political tasks assigned to them by Mao. The United States, Canada, Australia,
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the great grain producing countries offered to send grain. Mao refused. He said, we have no famine.
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He would rather let tens of millions of his own people starve to death than allow food aid to come
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in from the United States, from Canada. And tens of millions of people did starve to death. There are
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entire villages in China that no longer exist because every living soul died. In the village I was in in
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1979 and 1980, there was a mass grave outside the village where 200 people were buried. Mostly the very
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elderly and very young, the ones who died during a famine disproportionately. And then after that,
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what do we get? We get the Cultural Revolution. Millions and millions of more deaths as Mao used the
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young people, and this has resonances in what's happening in America today, used the young people against
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his enemies in the Communist Party. Millions and more deaths. So 100 million deaths that Mao caused during
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his lifetime in his lifetime. That's a conservative number. But he's also responsible for the one-child
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policy in this sense. He died in 1976. One-child policy didn't begin until I was in China in 1980.
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But in 1958, he gave a speech and he said, we need to control reproduction just as we control production.
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The Communist Party should have a birth planning office so that we can plan births in the same
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way that we plan the production of steel and the production of bicycles. So he put in motion,
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he set in place the idea that it was the proper role of the state to control how many babies people had.
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And it wasn't very long after he died that the Communist Party leaders began to act on that
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principle. And 400 million unborn children died as a result. So let's total up the numbers. 100
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million, famines, purges, wars, plus 400 million in the one-child policy. That's a half a billion people.
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The biggest killing machine in human history. You want to talk Stalin? The numbers don't come
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close. Hitler? The numbers don't come close. Mao was in power for longer than Hitler and Stalin
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put together. And he killed many, many more times the number of people.
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Unbelievable. A lot of the things you said just there describing China actually seem to describe
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America and Canada and a lot of the West today.
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Governments. And one of the things you said was so stunning because he killed people by
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government mismanagement. And you could probably see it if you were in the country at the time,
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oh my gosh, he's actually killing us with his policies.
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But that sounds weird, I think, to our ears because some people are saying,
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yeah, Biden seems to want to destroy America, want to starve the population. In Europe,
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they're farmers who are literally believing their governments are trying to starve them out as
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farmers, but then also seeing women. That's going to starve out my kids as well. So they're doing what
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some might consider extreme measures. They're putting their manure on the parliament buildings. They're
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doing what's the reality. And are we seeing some of the similar things, this mismanagement with killing
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not only a possibility, but killing a reality and they're not even considering it? Or if they are,
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they're happy about it. You know, 40 years ago, I could look at China and say
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such atrocities, such crimes, such cruel inhuman mistreatment of the population could only occur
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in a communist country. It could never occur in the United States of America. But the only thing
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that once divided China from the United States is our belief in God, our embrace of the idea that all men
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are created equal and are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You know, we've always
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said that if America ceases to be good, it will cease to be great. Many of the elites in our country
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have lost their moral bearings. They do not believe in God. They are godless and lawless in the same way
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that Mao Zedong was. As a young man, Mao bragged about being lawless and godless. I think about that.
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That's a violation of the first commandment, right? He rejected God. A violation of the law.
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He rejected any limitations on his behavior. And even those that were written in the human heart,
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I mean, every human being alive understands thou shalt not kill because those sorts of injunctions are
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written on the human heart. Mao rejected them. As a young man, he said often that there are other people
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and things in the world, but they're only there for my use and enjoyment. They have no meaning or
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significance other than that. So he regarded himself as a young man as a kind of deity. Well,
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that's where you wind up if you reject God. And I think many of our leaders in the United States have
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rejected God in the same way and fallen prey to the lust for power, the lust to be as gods, you know,
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falling for the ancient lion and the ancient serpent, you shall be as gods, just eat the fruit of the tree.
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I used to have a certain sense of moral superiority when viewing China from the safety of the United
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States. I no longer feel safe here in my own country because my leadership is going down the same path
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as I saw China go down, rejecting God, becoming godless and lawless. And once you do,
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once you have no moral anchor, there are no limits. You will kill to stay in power. You will arrest your
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political opponents. You will use lawfare. You will destroy institutions. And all the while,
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you'll be claiming you're saving democracy. So I see the same, we're on the same trajectory that China is.
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And I'm not sure whether China could defeat us in open kinetic warfare,
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but I am certain that they are defeating us now in a cultural sense by serving as a model for some of
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our elites, because some of our elites actually admire the communist Chinese system. They admire the control
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of the cognitive infrastructure of the country by the Chinese Communist Party. They admire the way its
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propaganda is omnipresent. They admire the way that its control over its people is so tight, so totalitarian.
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And they would like to impose the same controls here.
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is the demonic element, an actual demonic element that goes beyond, you know, because you might have
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thought, oh, they're just evil. They're power hungry. It's all about themselves. They've rejected God,
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make themselves God. But there's an actual darker element. Tell us about, you were talking to me earlier
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about Mao being consecrated to a deity. And then what you think today and how your views might have
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changed over the years regarding the actual demonic involvement in all of this.
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Well, the book is called The Devil and Communist China. And it's called that for a reason.
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It's in a series of books. The first book in the series by Tan Books was The Devil and Karl Marx. And
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Marx himself, as my friend Paul Kanger wrote in The Devil and Karl Marx, did dabble in the occult and wrote
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poems, at least, that make it sound like he'd made some sort of arrangement with the devil. Now, Mao never did
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that. But when he was three years old, his mother took him out to a stone monolith outside the village,
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which was a quite impressive stone, at the base of which was a spring. And the stone was thought to have
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supernatural powers. It was thought to be a local deity, you know, animism where the rocks and trees
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and spirit, you know, have spirits living within them. And his mother baptized him there and gave him
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a new name. She called him the third son of the monolith. And Shri Sanyadza in Chinese. And ever after,
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he cherished that name. And he would frequently refer to himself as Shri Sanyadza, the third son of the
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monolith. Now, I think it's a dangerous thing to consecrate a child or baptize a child to an evil spirit
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and something that should be avoided. Mao, of course, seems to have exemplified in every aspect of his
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behavior, if not demonic possession, at least some unhealthy acquaintance with the demonic. And I go
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through the commandments, because obviously, we can say Maoists never taught the commandments. But
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that's not true, because the commandments are written on the human heart. Maoists taught Buddhism,
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which teaches you truthfulness, respect for all life, avoiding lust, and so forth. So, you know,
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it does give you some moral precepts there. He was taught Confucianism, where you're supposed to
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respect your elders. Every commandment, he violated. And he didn't just violate the commandments,
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you see. Every time he faced a choice of a course of action, if he could achieve his will, his aim,
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by being open and honest and above board, or if he could achieve it by being deceitful and underhanded
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and deceiving people in doing his will, he would always choose deceit and deception. So,
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he sort of had a natural propensity towards evil. Let me give you an example. He was expert at killing
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with a borrowed sword. So, that his killing with a borrowed sword, a borrowed sword,
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which means you borrow a sword and you kill somebody. During his struggles, power struggles,
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within the Chinese Communist Party, if he had a rival communist leader that he wanted to dispose of,
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he would reveal the location of that leader and that leader's troops to the nationalists,
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so the nationalists could destroy the leader and his troops, saving him the trouble. Killing with a borrowed
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sword. Best example of that is in the Korean War, which came right after 1950, right after the end of
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the Chinese Civil War. Now, there had been massive surrenders of major nationalist armies at the end of
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the Chinese Civil War. Literally hundreds of thousands of troops laying down their arms saying,
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we surrender. They were immediately inducted into the Communist Party's Red Army and sent where?
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And sent into Korea to be slaughtered by the Americans. Again, killing with a borrowed sword.
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We killed hundreds of thousands of troops that Mao didn't trust because they had recently come over
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from the nationalist side to the communist side, killing with a borrowed sword. He never forgot a
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slight. For example, Zhou Enlai, a long-time premier of China, right? Stood by Mao's side from the 1930s on.
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But in the 1930s, way back, he had challenged Mao at one point. Mao never forgave him. And so when Zhou Enlai,
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in the early 1970s, while both he and Mao were getting very old, when he was diagnosed with bladder cancer,
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Mao told the doctors, don't tell Premier Zhou that he has cancer. Don't treat the cancer. I will decide
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if he receives treatment or not. One of the ways Mao had control over the other senior leaders is he
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controlled their medical care. And so the doctors didn't treat Premier Zhou Enlai's cancer until it
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spread throughout his intestine. He died an agonizing death a couple of years later. You see, Mao wanted to
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get back at him because 40 years before he had challenged Mao's leadership. And 40 years of
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faithful service after that didn't matter. Mao wanted revenge. Now that's diabolical. Another example,
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the Sixth Commandment, thou shall not commit adultery. Mao abandoned wife after wife after wife. He
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abandoned his children during the course of the Revolutionary War. He could have saved them at various
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points. He allowed them to be captured by the nationalists. One wife was executed. But as he
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grew older, he began to worry that death was coming for him too, you see, even though he regarded himself
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as a kind of minor deity, right? He had deified himself in the eyes of the Chinese people. They were
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bowing and scraping to him. They were creating idols to him. They were singing his praises. But he was
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getting older. But he read about the ancient Yellow Emperor and how he achieved immortality by sleeping
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with a thousand virgins. And so that's what Mao decided to do when he was in his 60s. He had a secret
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police start bringing in girls every night, 13, 14, 15 year old girls from the villagers. And he would sleep
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with them and then send them on their way the next day. I don't know whether he made it to a thousand or
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not, but it didn't help. He did die in the end. But that was the kind of person he was. He had an
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untreated venereal disease, which because it didn't bother him, he didn't want antibiotics. He didn't want
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to be bothered. So he was not only destroying the purity of hundreds of innocent young village girls in
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China. He was also probably giving them a sexually transmitted disease as well. He didn't care.
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Remember, because people and other things only existed in his mind for his pleasure. That's
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diabolical, right? That's a diabolical view of rejecting the common humanity of, you know, setting
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yourself apart from the rest of humanity, treating them simply as disposable objects, a sort of
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renewable resource. You can kill 100 million here. Don't worry. Our women will make it up in a
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generation, he once said. This is truly diabolical, as you say. We see the same things happening here, not
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perhaps in the same overtness, but with a, you know, with a white lab coat here. We seem a little
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better polished with the same things going on. And sometimes uncovered. And even when uncovered,
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it doesn't seem to matter. The family and power is just, yeah, it's going on and it doesn't seem to
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matter. But how in the world do we fight that? Because this is not only over there now. We'd love
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to see the defeat of communist China. Absolutely. Of communism in China to free the people there as
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well. But when we're seeing it in our own countries, we're having the same issues with communism here.
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How do we fight this thing? Because it is diabolical.
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We know that we have an election coming up. We know that we have probably one more chance to
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set things right in the United States before the system is so completely corrupted that we'll never
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have another free or fair election in this country. At the same time, I think the supernatural battle is
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raging. And that's where our strength lies. This nation must turn back to God. This nation must
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realize that we're talking about shades of gray here. We're not talking about moral relativism.
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We're talking about a battle, probably getting close to the final battle between good and evil
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in the world. And the lesson we can learn from China is that when evil becomes triumphant in a country,
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the consequences are simply too horrible to contemplate. The death toll, the loss of freedom,
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the attack on free will, the attack on religion. The Soviet Union spread its errors to China,
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as I mentioned, during the Chinese Civil War. China has spread its errors to other countries,
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North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam. It's intent upon spreading its errors elsewhere too. And it has spread its
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errors to the United States. 100,000 deaths from fentanyl every year. That fentanyl comes from China.
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The precursors, chemical precursors do. The money is laundered by China for the Mexican drug cartels.
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Human sex trafficking going on. Epstein Island. We have a morally corrupt elite here as well. So China is
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corrupting our systems of government locally, at the state level, at the federal level. We see, I think,
00:28:24.440
in the occupant, current occupant of the Oval Office, we see a man whose family has been corrupted by
00:28:32.040
Chinese money. Is he a controlled asset of the Chinese Communist Party? Well, he's been on a number of
00:28:40.440
trips to China. So has his son. And a lot of money has changed hands. And as they say, once you accept
00:28:48.280
the first bribe, you might as well accept all the rest because you, after that, are compromised. The devil in
00:28:55.400
Communist China, I think, has provided us with a look at how the devil operates in the world that we live in now.
0.97
00:29:07.240
And it's becoming increasingly apparent how active he is here in our own country.
00:29:15.960
Well, you can get it from us at pop.org. It's published by TAN books. So it's available on the
00:29:23.160
TAN book website. And of course, Barnes and Noble, your local bookstore.
00:29:29.880
Very good. Steve Mosher, thank you so much for being with us.
00:29:32.360
Thank you. God bless you. And you. And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.
00:29:49.160
Hi everyone, this is John Henry Weston. We hope you enjoyed this program. To see more like it,
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