00:04:53.460Like, every woman was required to go to the temple, and whatever guy threw her money, she had to take it and then have intercourse with him.0.99
00:05:01.260What's crazy about that, Dan, is it's absolutely disgusting.0.98
00:05:04.060It reminds me of a saying of Brian's.0.98
00:05:05.340It's like going to a truck stop and licking the toilet.0.68
00:14:05.260It was not delaying having children, but was, in fact, what we're talking about, bringing her into the home to cause the home to flourish, to become more than, like Chris Wiley says, a hotel room that's where you watch Netflix and go to sleep at night.
00:14:19.940But to actually make the space a place where eternal souls are raised, human beings that will live forever in worshiping the one true and living God and to nurture that home and to build that home.
00:14:36.640And so I think one of the things that you have to do is, like Eric said, is to celebrate what is good, true and beautiful.
00:14:43.780And I mean, this sounds obvious, probably, but I've been in counseling situations to where the husband starts complaining that his wife isn't bringing home an income.
00:15:32.200Dan, I would kind of piggyback on that.
00:15:34.140I would connect kind of two principles.
00:15:35.620One, Paul saidโand by the way, this is kind of what happens with practical advice is you just get back to some really basic things.
00:15:43.140So, number one, Paul said that bad company corrupts good character.
00:15:46.700Well, the opposite is also true, that if you want your wife to be a godly woman who sees the glory of motherhood and of being in the home and not the OnlyFans woman,
00:15:55.960well, she also needs to be surrounded by women who appreciate that glory as well.
00:16:00.460One of the unique things about being in a community in a church like Refuge, you have it taught from the pulpit, you have husbands reinforcing it, and then I think maybe one of the most powerful things is the ladies.
00:16:11.200You'll see it when they're new to the church.
00:16:12.680They come in, and they see the glory of these other women.
00:16:16.540They are like a beacon of hope in a dark world.
00:16:19.620And so we get these young people from broken backgrounds, and they see Lexi and Amelia and my wife and other ladies who are further down the path, and they're gloriously adorned, they love their husbands, they're sweet, they're gentle, they're kind.
00:16:34.520And I think it's the opposite of the truck stop licking of the toilet.
00:17:32.080Knocking boots, that whole kind of genre where it's really trying to soften the hard edges of sin.1.00
00:17:38.280It's even recently I've seen a lot of the country music culture has been with female country music artists has been adopting the folly of the black hip hop culture.1.00
00:17:50.380The degeneracy of that whole world and like fusing the two.1.00
00:17:55.620And not only is it bad music, which is like country ladies rapping to country song soundtracks is stupid.1.00
00:18:02.200But they're also adopting the moral vision of that whole inner-city black hip-hop culture, which is just absolute degeneracy.1.00
00:18:14.300So I think it is important that husbands know, like, no, it is your job and your responsibility.1.00
00:18:20.860You have real authority in your home to tell your wife you may not listen to that anymore.
00:18:27.180And not to treat her like a child, but that is your responsibility.0.62
00:18:30.580Yeah, and how many times in counseling, right, when you hear from a lady, you know, this is nothing personal, but I've heard these in the past.0.87
00:18:38.560It's nothing personal and timely now, but in the past, like women will come in and they'll say, you know, I want a divorce.0.71
00:18:59.100So, so I might, I'm going to put you guys on the spot. Okay. With a really tough question. So there was a Twitter comment, uh, or maybe it was Facebook. I can't recall today where there was some accusations lobbied against us specifically Eric. No, no, no, no. Against us in general. And I'm not going to quote the tweet cause it was actually quite crass, but I will just kind of give you an objection to what we're talking about right now.
00:19:24.820where this person said it seems like the way that we relate to women
00:19:29.540is that their responsibility is to fill our stomachs0.99
00:20:13.500They're enslaving women in corporate worlds that are actually ought to be the agon of men, that ought to be the field of battle for men.1.00
00:20:22.580and they say, women, this is for you,0.73
00:20:24.660what they actually end up being is enslaved to just different men.
00:20:27.580I mean, almost always, because nature will prove out.
00:21:30.020Yeah, Dan, with these comments, what I think is happening is we paint these masterpieces, and God paints a masterpiece of the glory of womanhood.
00:21:38.500And these comments to me and the feminists and everybody else who makes them is like the people who go into the Met and throw urine and fecal matter on a painting, and they say, this is what you mean.
00:21:49.080But really what they're trying to do is degrade the glory of God.
00:21:52.720And, you know, I get it all the time, too.
00:21:54.200I'm like, I'll say something like, I think that women and men who are in their peak sexual years are in for trouble if you just put off marriage until you're 30.
00:25:51.160and surrounded by good models in other women.0.94
00:25:53.820so that the internal and the external could both come into alignment0.86
00:25:59.300with the glory of lady wisdom, and when those things,
00:26:04.080even when one of them is in place but the other's not,
00:26:06.280it gives you this powerful, hey, like taking your wife aside
00:26:10.860where she's being disrespectful to you publicly or in the home or whatever,
00:26:14.680you can say, look, you're dressed like a glorious feminine woman,
00:26:18.200but how is your inward adorning right now?0.94
00:26:20.260You have this authority and responsibility in your home.
00:26:23.760Yeah, I think one of the things, too, to remember is that one of the qualifications for pastors is that they're able to teach, which this is one of the manly roles, you know, washing your water, Brian, you mentioned, washing your wife in the water of the Word.
00:26:36.840One of the roles you have is to teach, and proverbially, you know, looking at Lady Wisdom, I would say one of the things that is really helpful over the years, both in counseling and in my personal relationships, is learning how to have those direct conversations.
00:26:52.200So it could be, as Brian was saying, I've had these in the past where, you know, maybe you're telling a story in public and you get corrected 100 times during the story.
00:27:01.680And then I might say afterwards, I noticed that you corrected me 12 times in that story.
00:28:24.000Like how many men have actually sat down and had that private, direct, loving, calm request?
00:28:29.200Because a lot of the time men are frustrated or they're bitter against their wives for not being and doing the things that they believe they should.
00:28:39.080Well, and it's very interesting, Brian, because this is kind of the, you know, staying away from OnlyFans, this warped sexuality, also means we need the positive.
00:28:49.440So it's a tie-in with creating a garden in your own marriage bed.0.81
00:28:53.620But, yeah, in counseling, it's so interesting because guys are like, oh, my wife's going to have sex with me, blah, blah, blah.0.93
00:31:10.980So a lot of what we've been talking about actually has to do with the fact that people were created to be imagers.
00:31:19.320Like we were meant to relate to images.
00:31:22.580So what I mean is like, Eric, what you had said, when new couples come to church and the wife sees all of the women in our church and they're modestly adorned and they're quiet and gentle in spirit and things like that, and they're one to a vision, they're imaging something.
00:31:39.860So what sort of categories for our wives and our daughters do we need to really direct them towards so that they have positive images that they can then walk after?
00:31:52.580Yeah, I think we've talked about pastors, obviously, having pastors, church leaders who teach these things.
00:31:58.140But I think it's also important to remember one of the qualifications for eldership in the diaconate as well is that their wives are respectable women.
00:32:06.080So one of the things you're going to do when you set our wives before the congregation as leaders, you're saying to these ladies, become like these ladies.
00:32:15.060One of the things I will say in the church today, there's been so many experiences I've had where the elder's wife or the pastor's wife is the one causing all the problems.
00:32:25.960So it's like, well, in churches, like you've really got to evaluate that.
00:32:29.240And then when you go to churches and you say, I want to be a member here, can you look at the ladies for the context of this conversation?
00:33:31.260And one thing that means, because we were made to look and reflect the image of God out into creation, is that beholding something is very powerful, humanly speaking.
00:33:41.700There's a theme that runs through the prophets, really the whole scripture, all of the scriptures.
00:33:47.220G.K. Beale has a book on this, I think, about imaging, that you become that which you behold, that which you worship.
00:33:55.360So if we behold the wrong image, we will become like that image.
00:34:00.220If men behold a false image of maleness, they will become like that false image of maleness, and then they will reflect that out into the world, and they'll start to bring the world into alignment with that false image.
00:34:11.960This is true of our wives, our daughters as well, is that this is why so much of that Instagram music stuff is so important in the church community and culture.
00:34:20.320if they're looking at and beholding a false image of femininity, then they will become like it and
00:34:27.600then they will impose that image on everything else. They'll impose it on the world. So I think0.61
00:34:34.660it's important here that we talk about the practical implications of peer culture,
00:34:38.820teachers, some of the ways that, and again, practically. How does this play out?
00:34:44.860I love what you're saying about imaging the glory. So it makes me think of 2 Corinthians
00:34:49.340chapter 3, verse 18, Paul says, and we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord,
00:34:56.360so the glory that you behold, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to
00:35:02.920another. So you have to really think about what glory is set before you and your people. Because
00:35:09.800we will be transformed. What is the glory? So yeah, let's talk about school and peer culture
00:35:14.300a little bit. And now I think we're getting into the kids, right? Not our daughters, not just our
00:35:20.100wives. Yeah, raising daughters. Everything that we're going to say here does apply to how you
00:35:23.840help disciple your wife. But talking about our daughters, why is it so important that we think
00:35:30.260about education in the context of our daughter's education when we're thinking about teaching them
00:35:35.860to love Lady Wisdom and hate Lady Folly? Man, that's such a big question. I think it gets
00:35:41.820to a lot of stuff we talked about with St. Brennan's, but what is education? It is formation
00:35:46.640of people. It is a setting before them of glory. So their peers, their teachers, a student will
00:35:52.920become like his teacher. You really have to actually ask, what do my teachers think is
00:35:57.380glorious? Oh, that's a good question. What are they setting before these students as glorious?
00:36:03.260This is why I think St. Brennan's, something like this, where it's like, I can fully trust
00:36:08.080that Kevin Love and the other teachers are setting the same glory that I would set before my children
00:36:13.920on a daily basis. You know, Brian had a really good quote in a sermon many years ago where he
00:36:19.940was talking about teachers and he said, teachers don't leave their gods at the door. Yeah, they
00:36:24.740don't. And so they bring them into the classroom. So that's, and that's what you're saying is,
00:36:29.640you know, you see, we've all seen the Facebook posts and the Instagram reels of some, quite
00:36:36.160honestly insane teachers oh yeah and what they're indoctrinating these people's children to believe
00:36:43.340they you know that teacher didn't leave their god at the door and they're beholding something0.75
00:36:47.360in their mind that is glorious and it's actually disgusting and they're imaging and a lot of it
00:36:52.080is actually subtle so i go back to the time when i was in high school it wasn't this as much this
00:36:57.540in your face lgbt stuff however uh like when i was 18 i'm getting ready to leave high school
00:37:04.800and i'm interested in my now wife and i i was saying to my friends and my teachers like what
00:37:09.520are your they're saying what are your plans i said i want to get married every single person
00:37:14.260there was like what a horrible life-ruining decision so you ask yourself what do they think
00:37:19.880about motherhood and what i should have been doing with my no no no no spend your 20s have fun so
00:37:25.100so your wild oats she should go to college get a bunch of debt get a useless degree to be enslaved
00:37:30.040to the corporate ladder yeah and so you start thinking about that and you're like even though
00:37:33.920it wasn't like as overt and disgusting as it is today when you actually think about it that's
00:37:39.840repulsive what they're trying to teach you and aim your life at so you really have to think
00:37:44.460through those things the other thing is would be obviously like who are your what boys is your
00:37:49.760daughter hanging out with at school because here's the other thing christian school is not the
00:37:54.520automatic answer there's lots of christian schools with bad kids in them like that should be taken
00:38:00.260for granted. So even at St. Brendan's, this probably ruffles feathers, but we're very
00:38:05.440careful about who is in that school because they're surrounding our children on a daily
00:38:08.760basis. We reject so many applicants. In fact, I think we just recently restricted it just
00:38:14.260to membership of our church because it's such a serious issue. This is another reason why
00:38:18.320you need to build people building schools. You need to build your school not to be addicted
00:38:24.260to outside money. Build your model so you're not addicted to outside money so that money
00:38:29.320doesn't become the worm on the hook to let in degenerate peers who are going to disciple your
00:38:35.140children into the image of hell. All of this stuff is so basic, but when you think about the
00:38:42.640gap that exists between often even the knowledge that a lot of Christians have and the way they're0.62
00:38:47.320living, you could ask them, how important is it that your children have peers to imitate who are0.77
00:38:52.160godly and not utterly degenerate? They'll be like, oh, it's so important. But then you look at the
00:38:55.740way that they're ordering their kids friends the friends they're allowing them to have maybe just
00:39:00.020absolutely uh even even homeschool families do this they're like homeschooling and then they
00:39:05.400make friends with all the neighborhood kids and they let on they start letting them hang out with
00:39:08.800them in their house all of a sudden they're letting them play video games and play the
00:39:12.240smartphone with them and pretty soon it's like yeah you're you're you're uh logos press uh
00:39:18.140curriculum is great at home but your kids are being imaged uh they're they're they're standing
00:39:24.460in the image and behold in the image of degeneracy. And so they are going to become that. They're
00:39:29.300going to love what is filthy and they're going to hate what is good over time. It's slow and it's
00:39:34.380subtle. So parents have to understand, fathers have to understand that you are going to have
00:39:42.320to wield more authority than the world will tell you is appropriate. You are going to have to be
00:39:48.760the father who other parents are frustrated with and other parents will slander you and gossip
00:39:56.700about you like, oh, they're the too good for us parents. Well, actually, yes. Yes, my home and
00:40:05.620what we're building in our home is too good for me to give my children to be imaged and discipled
00:40:11.040into the image of degeneracy. So, I mean, man, I think fathers are going to have to really grow a
00:40:18.040pair in how they think about the nature of their authority. This is your responsibility. You have
00:40:23.320real authority. You must wield it. Yeah, and it connects to another issue we're going to talk
00:40:27.080about here now, which is antinomianism. So take what Brian's saying, right, that you need to be
00:40:33.340a father who gives, let's be honest, gives basic commands according to God's law about how you
00:40:38.940should live. Well, what if you're in a gospel-centered, T4G-style church that's like,1.00
00:40:44.160No, no, no, baby, just give them the gospel.1.00
00:40:45.800Your next 29 church where all the ladies are wearing skinny jeans and shorty shorts,1.00
00:40:50.860and the pastor will say nothing about it.0.97
00:40:54.180I'm sure people know what antinomianism is.
00:45:08.780And I remember feeling anger, like real, legitimate, I want to hurt him anger, and it was all I could do not to scream out, Jesus wants the rose!
00:45:19.120that's the point of the gospel that jesus wants the rose that he made him who knew no sin to be
00:45:28.100sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of god in him that while we were
00:45:34.300yet sinners christ died for us christ won you're not even teaching the basics of our faith
00:45:40.880well first of all i that actually made me angry i kind of got into it did you get angry like
00:51:08.000listeners will hear both those clips because
00:51:10.260Because they've had their theological frame set by the antinomian megachurch gospel-centered, quote-unquote, culture of the last 20 years of especially Calvinist adjacent megachurchianity.
00:52:08.380And what you would take away from this kind of teaching over time0.99
00:52:11.480is a sense among the ladies that their sins actually aren't that bad.0.78
00:52:16.400Or that they don't even have them.1.00
00:52:18.140And that their biggest problem is low self-esteem.
00:52:21.060But that the main problem in their lives is that their men are not doing enough.0.51
00:52:25.740They'll walk away going, with an absolutely low view of their husbands,
00:52:30.140like, you didn't seem exhausted at the end of the night last night.
00:52:35.340You didn't kneel down and ask me how my heart was.
00:52:37.460You seem like you've got too much energy coming into the marriage bed, maybe hands off.
00:52:42.940Were you wrestling with the kids hard enough?
00:52:44.800And it's like you will get this picture, and it's a false image of the real problems with men and women.
00:52:51.140But it ends up absolutely doing a disservice to the women because instead of discipling them and warning them like the scriptures do of those sins common to women, just as it does with sins common to men,0.85
00:53:02.840they walk away downplaying their own sin with excuse after excuse0.73
00:53:06.900about why all of their problems are somebody else.0.65
00:55:19.200What ends up happening, and we see this in the0.96
00:55:21.660the pagan world, and in Christianity, is that when you have boss babe, when you have these0.92
00:55:26.740women that they think they're, I mean, right next to God, okay, as far as their authority,0.67
00:55:34.920and then they're continually told, and their men are continually told, that they are weak,1.00
00:55:39.900that they are failing, that they're not doing enough to support their wife, what happens
00:55:44.860with the women is that they become dissatisfied with their beta husbands and they leave.
00:55:52.980They initiate divorce. Over 80% of divorces are initiated by women.0.83
00:55:58.700And then a lot of times what happens is then they post on Facebook about how I need privacy0.60
00:56:04.960in this time. I'm separating from my husband. What is everybody's first question? What did
00:56:11.200he do yeah every time yeah what did he do men do sinful things but but really on the level to where
00:56:17.840this i think when it gets to college educated women it's like 90 are initiated by the college
00:56:24.100educated women well and this is insane this this teaching though was so common i think he's even
00:56:28.740changed kind of his tune on this but if you read reforming marriage early in the book there's a
00:56:33.380sentence in there where doug says like no matter what is wrong with your marriage men i want you
00:56:38.220to know it's your fault and i think foster talked to him about it and they've talked about this on
00:56:43.260i mean like publicly yeah and you know doug has said like yeah that's probably not helpful anymore
00:56:48.600but you can say ultimately your marriage men you have to take responsibility sure but there are
00:56:55.120situations where you know and i've saw them more and more in the last 10 years of counseling
00:56:59.660where it was like no this woman might actually be a living nightmare and then you read proverbs
00:57:06.780And you're like, well, I mean, it describes women who are living nightmares in their home over and over or destroying their homes like relentlessly, relentlessly so.0.86
00:57:14.900And it warns the young men against this type of woman and it warns the women not to be.0.87
00:57:18.500I mean, over and over and over again, what do we see in in this world of imagers and imaging is that men and women are both very prone to latch on to certain archetypes of false maleness or false femaleness and image them to their destruction and the world's destruction over and over and over.0.88
00:57:35.880What antinomian culture does, and I think that it did this out of financial incentive, and I'll unpack that in a second, I think they did this out of financial incentive, is they downplayed all of those archetypal sins common to women, and they absolutely threw gas on the fire of the archetypal sins common to men, laziness all the way to anger and rage and the sexually loose man, which are all terrible archetypes.0.74
00:57:59.720I think they did this for financial reasons, because in the Christian world, especially in evangelical megachurchianity, an astronomically disproportional number of the people in the pews are women, not men.0.58
00:58:13.000So almost every church is skewed to where some far larger percentage of the people sitting there on a Sunday morning are women.
00:58:30.640So the pastors that are selected by that process tend to be feministic white knight pastors.0.99
00:58:36.600And then those pastors, they've been selected because of their nature.0.98
00:58:41.420They then go on to pander to the women, to continue to please them, to keep the budget funded, to keep the books selling, to keep all that going.
00:58:50.280This is also why, by the way, a lot of leftist ideology politically has crept into those churches.
00:58:55.780You saw Matt Chandler marching with BLM.1.00
00:58:57.940Well, look at the way that particularly white women vote.1.00
00:59:17.820They're like, don't you love the poor?
00:59:20.000Let's pass legislation to steal from successful people unjustly, in an absolute unjust way, in order to fund and actually incentivize a culture of death.
00:59:31.580Women are easier to manipulate in that direction, which is why the 19th Amendment was a huge mistake.1.00
00:59:36.600We see voting patterns completely vindicate.1.00
00:59:39.860I mean, this should be uncontroversial, but if women didn't have โ if the suffragette movement had failed, America today would be a far more Christian and a far more moral nation.0.94
00:59:50.740And instead, what we got is a tranny story hour, drag queen story hour, and gay marriage as law of the land.1.00