The King's Hall - Art, Media, & the New Christendom

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, Brian here with a big announcement from New Christendom Press.

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00:00:36.060 What is art?

00:00:38.220 Some would say that art is communicating beauty.

00:00:42.100 Some would say that it's an expression of imagination.

00:00:45.320 And some that art is simply a work that has to be appreciated.

00:00:49.940 The United States government agreed that art is something that should be appreciated.

00:00:53.800 So in 1965, President Lyndon B. Johnson formed the National Endowment for the Arts in order to fund artists in their pursuit of making works that have to be appreciated.

00:01:06.580 One such artist that received a grant through the taxpayer-funded National Endowment for the Arts was artist and photographer Andreas Serrano.

00:01:17.220 The National Endowment for the Arts has determined that the people of the United States needed to appreciate Mr. Serrano's art.

00:01:26.320 Mr. Serrano's pictures involve bodily fluid in some way, depicting, for example, blood, sometimes menstrual blood, semen, feces, or human breast milk.

00:01:37.480 He is also known for his erotic photography and even has a display where he has pictures of corpses.

00:01:43.760 Mr. Serrano was chosen to receive grants totaling $15,000 in 1986 to produce his art for the American people, paid for by the American people.

00:01:54.300 In 1987, he unveiled his masterpiece that the government funded.

00:01:58.160 It was titled His Christ. 0.56

00:02:01.560 The photograph shows a Catholic crucifix with Jesus on the cross, submerged in a jar of Mr. Serrano's own urine.

00:02:08.900 In response to the outcry from Christians for the blasphemous photograph, Mr. Serrano had two photographs placed on display at the Smithsonian American Art Museum in Washington, D.C.

00:02:22.920 One photograph titled Heaven and Hell depicts a bound woman covered in blood behind a Catholic cardinal.

00:02:30.260 The American Family Association, a Christian organization, wrote the following to the National Endowment for the Arts.

00:02:36.460 that Mr. Serrano's art is an example of, quote, a deplorable, despicable display of vulgarity.

00:02:43.920 They continued, this matter does not involve freedom of artistic expression. It does involve

00:02:49.760 the question of whether American taxpayers should be forced to support such trash. The reply from 0.98

00:02:56.400 the director of the National Endowment for the Arts was, I think that controversy has always

00:03:03.500 been endemic to art. That certainly it's been endemic to 20th century art. Even as far back

00:03:10.060 as Caravaggio, people complained because he painted the virgin too naturalistically with

00:03:16.160 dirty feet. I think that discussion of obscenity and propriety are endemic to art because art is

00:03:22.580 always on the cutting edge, and anything that's on the cutting edge is going to offend someone.

00:03:28.860 So that brings us back to our first question.

00:03:32.540 What is art?

00:03:34.060 Is it simply controversial images or entertainment that pushes social norms?

00:03:39.020 Is it something that comes from human imagination and therefore must be appreciated?

00:03:44.300 What if art is more than the whims of demon-possessed druggies and drunks?

00:03:48.640 What if art is actually cosmic warfare, worship, and glory?

00:03:54.280 The King's Hall Podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well and win the world.

00:04:05.100 Well, welcome to this episode of the King's Hall Podcast.

00:04:08.260 Dan, thank you so much for that very scenic picture of Piss Christ.

00:04:14.080 Hey, you know what? I would not search his art.

00:04:18.060 It's really bad. Have you looked at it?

00:04:19.320 yeah yeah i mean a lot of it is like erotic when i say that like don't search it yeah don't don't

00:04:25.440 it sounds quite horrible it's it actually reminds me there was a question in there which is i think

00:04:30.180 it's a good one to kick us off there was a question what is art and it reminds me of the

00:04:35.500 great philosopher ron swanson who said it's art anything is anything i also think it's pointless

00:04:42.600 for a human to paint scenes of nature when they could just go outside and stand in it

00:04:47.860 anyway please do not misinterpret the fact that i am talking right now as genuine interest

00:04:53.180 in art and attempt to discuss it with me further end of speech right we have this thing in our

00:04:59.620 culture where artists especially they're just the woo-woo people yeah crystal rock feather i don't

00:05:03.980 know what they're doing they just get to make stuff up those are the artists you know what it

00:05:08.040 is let's just be honest here it's money laundering like let's be let's be real here it's it's democrat

00:05:14.220 apparatus saying i purchased this modern art it was paint splattered on a canvas for 1.2 million

00:05:21.100 it was it was money laundering get out of here anyway yeah that's for another episode maybe

00:05:26.020 yeah i i was gonna go two different routes with our story i went this direction but the other one

00:05:32.020 was the funding of the the the gays like how much money this uh this national endowment for the arts

00:05:39.380 is actually funneling into gay organizations is pretty incredible.

00:05:43.660 It's difficult to compile, though,

00:05:44.840 because they don't come out and tell you straight away how much.

00:05:48.340 By the way, the National Endowment for the Arts,

00:05:52.020 their budget for 2020 was $162 million.

00:05:58.480 Maybe they want to fund the King's Hall.

00:06:01.060 You know, let's write them a letter.

00:06:02.620 Send them the pitch deck.

00:06:05.240 Well, we got some ideas now from Mr. Serrano.

00:06:08.060 Yeah, Serrano. 1.00

00:06:08.880 I think you're supposed to roll the R's 1.00

00:06:12.320 but I can't 1.00

00:06:12.940 and he shouldn't

00:06:15.460 speaking of rolling R's

00:06:18.740 the title of

00:06:20.140 this week's show

00:06:21.200 has no R's in it

00:06:23.160 it has art isn't it 0.94

00:06:25.920 no that's like pirate R's 0.77

00:06:28.460 so we're talking about Christian media

00:06:30.220 arts and music

00:06:32.000 and I think as we saw in the cold

00:06:34.300 open there is this fundamental question

00:06:36.100 what is art, what is media, what is it for

00:06:38.240 and we want to unpack that in today's show.

00:06:40.880 So today we live in a world that is dominated by technology,

00:06:43.960 and technology has shaped the way that we consume media, including art.

00:06:48.760 With the advent of the smartphone in 2007, that change has rapidly accelerated,

00:06:53.340 and we've all experienced that in just a single generation and lifetime.

00:06:57.660 Similar changes occurred with the advent of radio, TV, and, of course, the Internet.

00:07:02.920 You guys remember the AOL.com, the discs?

00:07:05.660 Yeah.

00:07:05.940 I got 60 minutes.

00:07:07.200 I got 60 minutes to go online, dial-up speed.

00:07:10.800 So that I can download Napster.

00:07:12.560 So I can download.

00:07:13.720 Oh, I was going on MySpace, actually.

00:07:15.900 Wow.

00:07:16.160 Yeah.

00:07:16.720 Way cooler.

00:07:17.960 Is that a MySpace?

00:07:19.100 I didn't know you were alive then.

00:07:20.400 It's how I flirted with my wife originally.

00:07:22.980 MySpace. 0.99

00:07:23.460 MySpace.

00:07:24.020 Oh, yeah.

00:07:24.320 She was in my top five.

00:07:26.400 I don't know. 0.85

00:07:26.760 Way better than FaceTime. 0.99

00:07:27.380 I was trying to get with her. 1.00

00:07:28.880 I was like, I'll put her in my top five. 1.00

00:07:30.340 I'll put her in my top five.

00:07:31.200 I'll put some Goo Goo Dolls when you come on, you know, like all the stuff that impresses 0.98

00:07:35.100 the junior high girl.

00:07:36.040 Oh, yeah. 0.98

00:07:36.460 Goo Goo Dolls was where it was at.

00:07:38.260 All about it.

00:07:38.800 I don't like where this conversation has gone.

00:07:41.220 Speaking of where this conversation has gone, according to studies, the average American spends roughly 13 and a half hours per day in exposure to some form of media.

00:07:51.660 13 and a half hours.

00:07:52.660 Unreal.

00:07:53.460 What are you awake for?

00:07:54.760 Like 16?

00:07:55.860 Yeah, about.

00:07:57.120 Right about.

00:07:57.740 16, 17.

00:07:58.560 So like, I don't know where the three hours that you're not connected are.

00:08:02.840 You're eating dinner while you Instagram.

00:08:05.500 Yeah, you're Instagramming your dinner.

00:08:06.500 That's what it is.

00:08:07.180 That is unbelievable.

00:08:08.200 Driving.

00:08:08.920 So I would wager pre-2007.

00:08:10.480 While listening to a podcast.

00:08:11.960 Pre-2007, that number was probably a lot less.

00:08:14.440 Oh, yeah, almost guaranteed.

00:08:16.480 In the TV days, I remember they would say, you know,

00:08:19.040 the average American watches six hours of TV a day.

00:08:21.800 Well, that's more than double.

00:08:24.220 Dang.

00:08:24.620 So in this episode, we want to ask some fundamental questions

00:08:26.960 about media, art, music.

00:08:28.500 Obviously, it's powerful.

00:08:30.020 Obviously, people are consuming a lot of it.

00:08:32.900 But we want to ask questions like these, Dan.

00:08:34.500 What exactly is media? What's the point of it? Is it neutral? And then we'll also examine the

00:08:40.100 condition of media today, how it's currently being used, how it shows up in the Christian

00:08:44.660 media space, and what in particular, we'll close by talking about what in particular we can do

00:08:49.180 with strategy. What should we be doing with media as Christians? If you take everything that we've

00:08:55.180 talked about Boniface and this whole approach to life post-mill, how would it apply to media? So

00:09:00.040 we're going to address that. Yeah. So I want to start with this question. Number one, what is

00:09:03.820 media what is our what is the point of it well first of all media is the pearl plural of medium

00:09:10.200 so it's just a plural form of a medium which is simply a conduit or mechanism for transfer of

00:09:15.680 substance from one person or place to another so not like a sorcerer uh medium what's kind of

00:09:21.440 similar like you're they're they're the conduit they're the conduit medium is the canvas upon

00:09:26.700 which the necromancy occurs so exactly like witchcraft it actually it's interesting i hadn't

00:09:31.360 thought about. So yeah, actually, if you work at CNN, you're actually a witch. Well, probably, 0.80

00:09:36.640 but not because of that. Yeah. So this is a media or medium is, is how we get things like

00:09:44.320 publication, music, entertainment, TV, books, art, right? So we have to have media to deliver

00:09:49.340 something. But I think what's often missed is that the medium or the media plural doesn't just

00:09:54.440 pass along raw data or information. In fact, there was a book that went by this title as well.

00:10:00.880 The medium is the message.

00:10:02.260 So the way that you deliver it and who's delivering it matters significantly.

00:10:06.900 So one thing we need to be clear about is that media is never ultimately operating in a completely neutral way.

00:10:13.780 It is always offering a picture of the good life, an understanding of what is good, true, and beautiful, and a way of seeing the world.

00:10:21.900 And this brings us actually back to the cold open.

00:10:25.780 Modern art shows beautiful things as disfigured.

00:10:28.660 though music will show things like cacophony as desirable, even though it sounds heinous.

00:10:34.820 So I want to ask you guys, what are some other ways that media art or music can be used to

00:10:38.040 distort reality, lie, or otherwise be used in an unrighteous way?

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00:11:18.740 yeah I think it's interesting when you when you understand media as medium as just a vehicle for

00:11:29.980 communicating ideas and it's it's it's a medium for externalizing your values externalizing your

00:11:36.720 message externalizing your goals for society you're trying to influence people to believe

00:11:43.160 certain things about the good the true and the beautiful and you're trying to promote your

00:11:47.420 message worldview, your aims for life, what you think people should be living for via media all

00:11:54.200 the time. And so it really is, I think, first of all, it is essential to the project of this season

00:12:00.880 of the King's Hall when we're talking about the new Christendom and living, clearing the job site

00:12:08.640 for our cathedral and then putting the stones on top of each other for this Christendom. You realize

00:12:14.960 is that media is going to be an inescapable aspect of this project.

00:12:24.040 And I think even of something that we probably don't think of in terms of media,

00:12:28.780 but think about Luther and his 95 theses on the Wittenberg Chapel door.

00:12:34.160 That's media.

00:12:35.540 I mean, he was communicating a message in a way that was possible publicly.

00:12:39.400 You can certainly bank on that if Luther had other tools available to him like we do today, he would have communicated his ideas via those mediums.

00:12:50.720 And so, you know, the first thing I think that we have to get is that it, what you said, 0.99

00:12:55.900 it's not neutral and Christians have to get that kind of from the gate out there because 0.59

00:13:01.560 they, we tend to operate oftentimes as if it is.

00:13:07.060 And as if most media is just, yeah, it's fine.

00:13:11.260 It's entertainment.

00:13:12.240 It's just, you know, I watched this sitcom.

00:13:14.960 It's just, I, you know, helps me relax in the evening, hang out with my family.

00:13:19.560 But no, the person who made that sitcom, however disconnected it may seem from religious ideology, they're trying to disciple you.

00:13:29.680 Well, and that it really gets to the power of media.

00:13:31.320 I've heard people say this.

00:13:32.320 You probably have as well.

00:13:33.900 There's no Obergefell without will and grace.

00:13:36.420 Exactly.

00:13:37.100 There's not the overturning of, you know, the gay mirage, anti-gay mirage laws unless you have a TV show that is selling. 0.53

00:13:44.580 look how cool and look how winsome and look how wonderful being a homosexual is in today's

00:13:50.140 culture and you can go back to the reformation dan as well and you look at you know the press 0.95

00:13:54.880 the modern printing press yeah the printing press that's really what helped fuel a lot of the

00:13:59.140 reformation well there were other reformers that came before luther right but but but the lack of

00:14:04.780 ability to get that message out right yeah in spite so luther it wasn't like a intention of

00:14:09.940 his to start printing his sermons and things like that. People just did. Actually, the 95 thesis

00:14:15.820 was supposed to be just like an intramural sort of debate. And it ended up being translated from

00:14:21.880 Latin into German and printed and eventually got the attention of the Pope. And it took a good 200

00:14:28.500 years or so for the Gutenberg press to proliferate print materials. I mean, it wasn't like Gutenberg

00:14:37.260 press and then overnight print materials were everywhere. It really took actually in that time

00:14:41.780 a few centuries before it was widely practiced that you would have print materials like this.

00:14:47.700 So you see the way though that as that proliferated through Europe and across the world

00:14:52.720 that all of a sudden the pace of discourse changed and was influenced by the medium.

00:15:01.000 So you see that actually as we're approaching this subject as well, it's really important

00:15:05.480 that Christians understand that the medium itself is going to shape the way the message is

00:15:12.340 communicated. So I know this is really off base, but in the same way that things changed with those

00:15:17.900 booklets and sermons being printed and the hierarchy at the time didn't know how to respond

00:15:23.220 to it adequately, you know, they're just like, well, we'll ban it. Or if you're caught with it,

00:15:27.800 we'll punish you or whatever. And so they're trying to condemn it like that. In the same way,

00:15:32.020 we see that, that change, uh, of medium throughout history, even to today, people don't know what to

00:15:38.880 do with memes, meme communication. People, I mean, older, older folks are really confused at what in

00:15:47.200 the world you're supposed to do with memes, you know, in a similar way. So did you see Thomas

00:15:52.000 Acord's tweet about that? I did. Yeah. I'm going to, I want to read it. It was so good. He's

00:15:56.520 explaining meme warfare in this tweet and uh you know this he says rule number one of meme warfare

00:16:03.240 don't argue against memes they're rhetorical not factual weapons if you argue you lose rule number

00:16:09.760 two of meme warfare don't become angry at memes against you or your position if you are react

00:16:15.200 emotionally you lose rule number three of meme warfare laughter wins like here's an example of

00:16:22.300 you know you send a meme to like you know my parents generation and they might think that

00:16:27.840 they're supposed to you know provide a an essay response arguing back and it's like actually a

00:16:33.660 sternly written letter yes sternly written letter and in in the the the media in the medium of

00:16:40.220 memery that that's actually doesn't work in fact your opponents the people they won't even read it

00:16:47.120 they'll make another meme where you're in the midwit middle with your really long dissertation 0.97

00:16:51.980 and then they'll put the dumb guy in the sage 0.98

00:16:55.540 on the other side to the bell curve. 0.99

00:16:57.080 They'll just make the bell curve meme back at you

00:16:58.900 and then you'll write another one.

00:17:00.400 You have to understand that the medium

00:17:04.020 is actually going to influence and affect

00:17:06.080 how the message gets out.

00:17:07.460 Well, and I think ultimately,

00:17:08.540 and we'll get into this in the strategy section,

00:17:10.500 but as Christians, we ought to be masters of these,

00:17:13.720 I would argue, of these media, of these medium.

00:17:16.940 We ought to be able to know how to use it

00:17:18.560 and use it righteously.

00:17:20.040 If you're fighting in a meme war,

00:17:21.400 than know how to use that medium.

00:17:23.820 The other thing I want to ask, though,

00:17:25.360 is we look at media.

00:17:27.040 It can be used for tremendous good

00:17:28.960 or tremendous evil.

00:17:30.540 It just so happens in America

00:17:32.040 that you have leftist, progressive,

00:17:35.360 Marxist gatekeepers of institutions

00:17:39.060 like the New York Times.

00:17:40.780 You have people like this

00:17:41.480 who are using it

00:17:42.220 sort of as the propaganda arm of the state,

00:17:44.860 and it's really horrible.

00:17:46.340 One example of this,

00:17:48.400 and this was this week,

00:17:49.900 Roy Moore,

00:17:50.460 You remember Judge Roy Moore. He defended in Alabama. He got kicked off the Supreme Court for defending the Ten Commandments and their usage in the courts in Alabama. He refused to rescind them. He actually argued that he was acting as a lesser magistrate. He was removed, stays in politics, writes some books, runs for Senate a few years ago, I think 2017.

00:18:10.740 One of the political PACs in Alabama runs an ad.

00:18:14.100 So here we're talking about media. 0.99

00:18:15.780 They run an ad saying that, yeah, he's such a sexual predator that this mall down the street wouldn't even let him come on the premises because he was such a child predator. 0.89

00:18:25.980 Well, the only problem with it was it was 100% fabricated. 0.97

00:18:30.820 Wow.

00:18:31.640 I didn't know that.

00:18:32.500 Yep.

00:18:32.900 Completely fabricated.

00:18:33.940 It came out this week that it was a complete fabrication.

00:18:36.700 I think it was Mitch McConnell and their PAC money.

00:18:39.000 that ran the hit piece on him.

00:18:42.240 Of course, he loses the election.

00:18:44.820 He was winning in Alabama.

00:18:46.480 He ends up losing the election

00:18:48.140 and is basically forced out of politics at that point.

00:18:53.360 So what was interesting about this

00:18:55.300 is people also in another media forum on Twitter,

00:18:58.320 people like Al Mohler jumped on the bandwagon

00:19:01.260 and said, yeah, look at this guy.

00:19:02.700 We can't support him.

00:19:04.180 They said, look, he's guilty by accusation.

00:19:06.800 we see the me too movement probably can't happen without twitter yeah or similar mediums yeah yeah

00:19:12.760 without the quick react social media so again this week uh he won an eight million dollar lawsuit

00:19:18.740 wow against these people they don't care because they got their candidate in and they've worth

00:19:22.860 hundreds of millions but here's my point media can be used for bad and for good yeah so as christians

00:19:30.600 I want to ask this, like, how should we be thinking about media and its usage and the power that it has?

00:19:37.740 I mean, we've seen at King's Hall, correct me if I'm wrong, you're able to multiply your message pretty exponentially through now really what we're talking about, mass communications.

00:19:47.300 Yeah.

00:19:49.260 For the project of this season to be successful, the project of seeing a new Christendom built,

00:19:54.580 There will need to be thousands and thousands of Christian men and women

00:19:57.520 who are equipped to stand for the truth of Scripture

00:19:59.760 against the errors of both the liberal church and the pagan culture.

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00:20:49.900 Tap the link in the description of this episode to pick one up today.

00:20:55.560 One thing that's interesting, you know, as a thought exercise, and people can get this wrong

00:21:00.940 sometimes, they'll go down lines of reasoning like this. They'll say, like, why don't pastors,

00:21:06.580 why would a pastor spend 10 or 15 hours a week, sometimes more, you know, depending on their

00:21:11.620 skill level or what kind of sermons they're preaching, writing a sermon or doing something

00:21:15.040 like that, when they could be meeting with people, you know, how many people could you meet within 15

00:21:18.680 hours in the week. Yeah. Sermon is really a form of mass communication. Right. And it sounds

00:21:22.840 plausible at first. You're like, yeah, that does seem like a bad use of time. But then think,

00:21:26.560 let's say that you're preaching at a church with a hundred people and you preach an hour long

00:21:31.520 sermon. Well, you've just done 100 hours of communication. You know, you just talk to

00:21:35.880 a hundred people. Let's say you do a podcast and you get a thousand people to listen to your hour

00:21:40.440 long thing. Well, that's a thousand hours of communication that you've just distributed.

00:21:43.960 let's say that you get a youtube channel that you know like i think of something uh take

00:21:49.640 apologia you know they they were like the one of the original youtube sensation kind of christian

00:21:56.100 media media enterprises that really hit it big on youtube one of their they use all those click

00:22:01.120 baity titles which is pretty funny but they're like the meth the you the mess the youth message

00:22:04.740 that shocked everybody listen to the end literally no one it has like four million listens and it's

00:22:09.980 like an hour long. That's 4 million watch hours or something like that on something that

00:22:15.180 Pastor Jeff Durbin preached once. So when you look at media, one of the things you have to

00:22:22.780 understand is that definitionally media can function as a force multiplier because of that

00:22:29.600 phenomena, that math equation where you paint a painting or you put together a play or you

00:22:36.240 compose a piece of music or you make a building where you, all of these different things that

00:22:41.360 communicate different aspects of your fundamental system of belief. And everybody that interacts

00:22:47.760 with that piece of art or media is in conversation with you. And so every person who's walked into

00:22:57.740 the Sistine Chapel has been in conversation with all of the artists who made the frescoes and the

00:23:03.340 architects and the builders, they've been in conversation, just looking and interacting with

00:23:08.780 that object in a way that is powerfully force multiplying. So I think it's important, first of

00:23:15.780 all, that Christians don't too quickly dismiss media arts and even things like entertainment

00:23:23.760 as offhand, mainly a waste of time. Well, and I think you're absolutely right. And I think the 0.94

00:23:30.740 reason that they tend to do this jordan peterson has even talked about this as they stand right

00:23:35.460 now media theater music anything creative tends to attract people from the left yeah so you can

00:23:43.820 look at hollywood and spaces like this they're just dominated by the left and we'll unpack this

00:23:48.360 a little more conservatives are like i'm gonna go start a political think tank and we're gonna

00:23:52.360 think tank we're gonna crunch the numbers and we're gonna show people the data on inflation

00:23:56.160 and that's gonna change hearts and minds we're gonna write political articles but my argument

00:24:00.160 would be, it doesn't have to be that way. Conservatives and Christians in particular here,

00:24:06.580 we could actually be great storytellers. Absolutely. In fact, we should be. The greatest

00:24:11.220 stories, I think that, for example, the greatest work of fiction in the English language in the

00:24:17.220 20th century is The Lord of the Rings. And I think I can say that without any qualification. I

00:24:23.560 actually don't know. That's my opinion. I would like to hear a contender. Honestly, I can't. I've

00:24:29.380 actually tried to think when you told me that i was like nah nah but then you think i can't think

00:24:35.020 of anything in 20th century english speaking like there's some asterisks maybe like twilight

00:24:40.080 oh my gosh what do i do

00:24:43.980 anyway make some kind of retching noise in there or something give us some sound effects that

00:24:52.420 dunks on eric for me but you look at you look at something like that and you begin to understand

00:24:58.020 that one of the mistakes, the mistakes is endemic to conservatism and often to, you know, by

00:25:06.000 therefore Christianity because Christians tend to be conservatives, is that we fail to recognize

00:25:11.460 the sheer power of media and storytelling and things that seem to not be doing anything other

00:25:17.840 than frivolous things, but they're actually powerfully at work shaping your conception

00:25:22.640 of what the world is like and ought to be like.

00:25:26.440 And if you understand that,

00:25:28.460 then you will immediately conclude

00:25:30.900 that we should have, 1.00

00:25:34.540 the world should be awash with Christians 1.00

00:25:36.980 making sitcoms and movies and documentaries and paintings. 1.00

00:25:41.680 And doing them well.

00:25:42.480 And music and doing them fantastic.

00:25:45.020 It shouldn't just be pagans

00:25:46.120 who are spending $200 million to make a movie.

00:25:49.360 Christians should be doing that too.

00:25:50.540 And I don't mean just movies that are ham-fistedly designed to give the gospel message.

00:25:57.700 Like a sneaky backdoor sort of thing.

00:25:59.460 Fireproof.

00:26:00.040 It's almost like if you trust in Jesus, your team will win all the state championships.

00:26:05.060 Yeah, and the football team will.

00:26:07.500 No, we need...

00:26:08.260 It all gets better, yeah.

00:26:09.360 We need Christians making films that portray the beauty of love and romantic love in the natural family.

00:26:17.940 And fatherhood and motherhood.

00:26:19.500 And, you know, we need we need these kinds of art. And it's it's I was hugely encouraged. You know, the other day I was at Grace Agenda up in Moscow, Idaho. And Jess Hall, the CEO of Canon Press, was sort of sketching out their their vision for the future of their their company.

00:26:35.820 and one of the things that he mentioned

00:26:38.140 that they are working on

00:26:39.900 is actually making sitcoms

00:26:42.340 and I was like

00:26:44.140 it's brilliant

00:26:45.560 it's absolutely brilliant because you know think of how many people

00:26:48.060 have had their ideas of marriage and family

00:26:49.680 saved by Saved by the Bell

00:26:51.300 I haven't actually watched a sitcom

00:26:53.940 in probably 10 years

00:26:54.740 there you go

00:26:56.520 what are some of the ones all the middle aged ladies are watching

00:26:59.180 even from the family 1.00

00:27:00.200 you've seen like The Office and Parks and Rec

00:27:03.460 look how The Office and Parks and Rec

00:27:04.940 has shaped the way that people talk and joke with each other or even i was even thinking like

00:27:09.360 it's derogatory now but you look back and you think of like from the 50s leave it to beaver

00:27:13.780 we still talk about that absolutely yeah which is interesting because people are always dunking on

00:27:19.820 it and i'm like honestly that would be more ideal than what we have now even if you think about

00:27:25.060 something sometimes we neglect that architecture isn't is a wing of this kind of conception but

00:27:31.700 architecture communicates things. You know, I remember a story about some large Christian

00:27:38.620 speaker was talking about a building that was being made by these sort of postmodernist

00:27:44.480 architectures, architectures, architects. And they were trying to communicate with the building

00:27:49.800 what they believed about the world. So they were trying to upend the idea of objective truth and

00:27:55.320 reality and morality and all these things that reality is infinitely malleable to whatever you

00:27:59.920 believe they were trying to communicate this. And so the building was like all misshapen and it

00:28:03.640 looked impossible. And, you know, you get staircases to nowhere and all kinds of stupid 0.99

00:28:07.420 stuff like that. And what's really funny is, you know, they make this building and they think it's 0.98

00:28:12.680 communicating their worldview on a level it is, but on the deepest level, they cannot help but

00:28:18.940 communicate the Christian faith because guess what? The engineers who designed the building

00:28:23.940 and the inspectors who signed off on it, they still had to do math that God wrote or the building

00:28:28.840 would fall over yeah that's that's incredible i always think of babel as an illustration of this

00:28:33.940 that our our worship is going to be reflected in the things we build and so in all of this

00:28:39.960 discussion it's the old uh van till right that culture is religion externalized henry van till

00:28:45.600 we could say the same thing about media we could say the same thing about art whatever you create

00:28:50.240 yeah by way of media and art is going to be a reflection of what you ultimately worship

00:28:54.620 Yeah, culture is the artifacts of a people.

00:28:58.280 So before, Brian, you're absolutely right.

00:29:00.600 Before we dive into what's the status of American media today

00:29:04.380 and what does it reveal about what we worship,

00:29:07.560 I want to ask a primary question.

00:29:10.040 What would be the proper use of media?

00:29:11.900 Why is art, story, et cetera,

00:29:13.740 why is it so important that we get this right?

00:29:16.240 What is it for?

00:29:17.140 What's the telos of media and art?

00:29:20.480 So one of the things that before you jump to,

00:29:23.580 it's tempting and there are ways in which we need to talk about the actual purposes,

00:29:28.820 things we're trying to accomplish with media. But even prior to that, I think one of the first

00:29:35.340 things we have to say about media is that it says something about anthropology. It says something

00:29:42.300 about what a human being is in distinction from other created beings. It says something about

00:29:52.040 man's status as an image bearer that he goes out and he, wherever man goes, he adorns everything

00:29:59.220 in a way that, you know, dolphins don't do that. Even, even really highly intelligent animals

00:30:06.400 compared to other animals, they don't create oil paintings. They don't create beautiful works of

00:30:12.780 architecture. Or even Abraham, as he's going through the promised land before he's inherited,

00:30:17.440 of course, everywhere he goes, he builds an altar. Yeah. So he's doing construction projects

00:30:23.380 everywhere. God has answered and showed up in his life. He, he builds an altar. Yeah. And so when

00:30:29.080 you look at human beings going out and it's inescapable, human beings just go out and they

00:30:34.420 create, they, they make beauty, they make art, they make media, they make stories, they make

00:30:38.700 songs, they make plays across the world, whether you're a native Americans 3000 years ago,

00:30:44.760 aboriginal peoples in australia you know early germanic peoples romans greeks africans every

00:30:50.600 human distinct they will put art on walls they will scratch in stones they will crush up different

00:30:57.120 animals and make them into different colored stuff what does that say well that right there

00:31:02.400 says that human beings are created in the image of god and they're sub creators where god is this 0.55

00:31:10.000 capital C creator, human beings go out and they reflect God's image, his likeness, by telling

00:31:17.900 stories and doing all those. And now we need to take those instincts that human beings have by

00:31:23.480 virtue of their created ontology, their nature, and we then need to turn them towards the ends

00:31:29.520 for which God created the world. That's where things go wrong is when sin gets into the system,

00:31:36.280 Human beings don't stop being sub-creators.

00:31:38.800 They don't stop being artists and storytellers and songwriters.

00:31:42.140 They just turn and they make piss Christ.

00:31:45.000 Or they make these blasphemous and evil or truly frivolous and communicate.

00:31:51.400 Even in the journalism world, I'd say equivalent to piss Christ would be MSNBC, New York Times, you name it.

00:31:59.220 They're essentially doing the same thing with words.

00:32:01.900 So, Dan, I want to ask you, if you were to take Brian's principles, and this is your job on a

00:32:06.340 daily basis, right? Take Brian's principles and you break it down for the blue-collar man.

00:32:12.120 What does that say? Like, if we're these sub-creators, is that what you called them,

00:32:16.300 Brian? Yeah, that's right. If you're a sub-creator, how does that play out for,

00:32:20.800 say you're a journalist, say you're working at a local newspaper or you're working for

00:32:25.380 the Federalist or whoever, how does being a sub-creator shape your vocation?

00:32:32.000 Yeah, that's a good question. And so when I think about this, and precision is important here with

00:32:38.360 some of the things that I'm going to say, because I'm having to navigate like certain Gnostic ideas,

00:32:42.980 like we're a spark of the divine or some such nonsense. So when I say that we're, 0.79

00:32:48.420 what was the term you used? We're not recreating. We're sub-creating.

00:32:52.660 Sub-creating. It's almost as if we are reorganizing and creating back something that something should communicate to people the glory of God.

00:33:04.120 And so as man is the glory of God, as we work, and as a journalist or as an artist or an architect, what we are doing is communicating back fundamental truths that God built into the universe of what is good, true, and beautiful that can only be right-ordered under those who are spiritually alive, who are given the Holy Spirit, who are in right order with God because those who are not blood-bought, regenerate.

00:33:34.120 being renewed in their mind are actually disordered. There's something fundamentally

00:33:39.320 wrong with the unbeliever, with the pagan mind. There's a disorder in their mind and in their 1.00

00:33:45.960 creation that would prevent them from fully creating something or communicating something

00:33:51.860 adequately to glorify God, to glorify the creator. That's why in the story I said,

00:33:59.300 what if art is actually cosmic warfare worship and glory not just like it is warfare worship

00:34:08.500 and glory but on like a cosmic level like peeking behind the scenes to where you have the kingdom

00:34:14.960 of darkness and the kingdom of light are actually at war and it's it's it's coming out in mediums

00:34:21.120 it's coming out on computer screens and in tweets and on newspapers and uh through your ears and on

00:34:28.440 the TV set. There's actually a cosmic war going on behind the scenes. And so our responsibility

00:34:33.880 as Christians, as blood-bought people, are to fight that war. And the way that you fight that

00:34:39.180 is through, in a lot of ways, culture, which is worship, externalized. And so when you're making

00:34:45.620 things, you should be making them to the glory of God. And that does multiple things. It glorifies

00:34:51.100 God, not in just some pietistic, warm, fuzzy feelings, but actually in fighting back the

00:34:57.840 kingdom of darkness. So when someone makes an absolutely beautiful oil painting or tells an

00:35:04.560 amazing story, what you're doing is you're communicating back the true, the good, and the

00:35:09.240 beautiful that God has already put into the hearts of, of redeemed men and communicated naturally in

00:35:17.080 the universe. So when you look at a mountain sunset, you know, and, and then you paint that

00:35:21.760 And I mean, it, it transcends, you know, your, your current moment in your drab home and you

00:35:28.640 look at that painting, what it's doing is it's telling you a truth. It's telling you something,

00:35:33.820 whereas something like the, the art that the gentleman at the beginning of this episode

00:35:39.180 did is it's actually fundamentally lying to you. It's telling you lies. And so I lost your question

00:35:46.140 somewhere in my ramblings, but I, I think fundamentally that's what you're talking

00:35:50.540 about with sub-creation is in a way you're creating back glory that God has revealed.

00:35:56.380 I think it was really interesting, Dan, because I asked for a blue-collar answer and I got

00:36:00.800 a Brian answer.

00:36:02.260 Yeah, you got more.

00:36:03.400 Which is, it's very interesting.

00:36:05.340 Let me multiply some more of that in that same vein because we're going to get blue-collar.

00:36:09.460 We're going to get blue-collar.

00:36:10.240 Yeah.

00:36:10.620 We absolutely are.

00:36:11.220 But built on the foundational theoretical understanding and principle that is important

00:36:17.320 to stand under your feet.

00:36:18.520 before you go do anything, you have to understand like what you're standing on, what you're aiming

00:36:21.860 for. And I'm realizing now that that term sub creator, I actually got, I think it's Lightheart,

00:36:26.660 Peter Lightheart. He spoke of a sub creator being a created being that also creates because we're

00:36:33.020 created in the image of God. Humans are therefore created to be sub creators. That's from his

00:36:38.160 commentary on first and second Kings. But what does that mean? Well, it means that whenever you

00:36:43.360 go out into the world and you adorn something or you take raw materials and you put it together

00:36:48.500 in a way that's supposed to be pleasing or communicate beauty or tell a story or any kind

00:36:52.460 of artistic media sort of enterprise, what you're always doing and what a Christian should, well,

00:36:58.740 let me start here. What you're always doing is you're speaking and communicating something

00:37:03.960 either about how the world is, how it ought to be, what's wrong with it, or what you think it

00:37:11.280 ought to be. And I'm sure there's more you could say, but those are some of the big categories

00:37:15.560 that art is almost always doing,

00:37:18.320 which is why it's so powerful,

00:37:20.620 either in towards glory or towards perdition,

00:37:24.080 when human beings go and do this artistic endeavor.

00:37:28.060 Think about what-

00:37:28.800 What's really good with like sitcoms that you talk about.

00:37:30.880 Yeah.

00:37:31.280 Is that you're saying the world ought to be 0.89

00:37:33.080 like the modern family, 1.00

00:37:34.320 where there's like the quirky gay people 1.00

00:37:35.880 and there's like the immodest daughter 1.00

00:37:38.660 that's always in dating issues 0.99

00:37:41.040 and there's the dopey husband.

00:37:43.500 You're saying this is what the world is like.

00:37:45.080 and should be, or, you know, even think about in the sitcom, a lot of the time you always have like

00:37:50.160 the token gay couple, and they're always this faithful, basically everything true about the

00:37:56.380 natural family, but just with a gay couple. And it's communicating that idea that, yeah, gay men,

00:38:02.640 when they go and get married, it's just like a man and a woman leaving his, you know, man leaving 0.73

00:38:06.820 his father and mother and holding fast to his wife, as it always has been. They're just making

00:38:10.500 a house. They just happen to be two men instead of if Christians were to tell the story of true 1.00

00:38:16.340 reality and actually expose what the gay, especially the male homosexual community is 0.99

00:38:22.580 actually like, it would be all bathroom meetings and multiple partners and monkey pox. The number 0.99

00:38:29.760 of people that got monkey pox, according to the surveys, I think that had had more than 20 sexual

00:38:34.560 partners in the last 60 days or 90. It was huge. So if a Christian went out, again, when Christians

00:38:42.620 do art, it shouldn't just be this, let's just tell this beautiful story. Let's just show kind

00:38:47.680 of this, everything's sanitized. Christians should have no problem, provided that we do it in a way 1.00

00:38:54.180 that is appropriate and not sinful, of portraying even the depths of reality. And I think about

00:39:00.560 the biblical narrative. 1.00

00:39:03.400 We're chopping up concubines 1.00

00:39:04.980 and we have all of the men 1.00

00:39:06.060 from the oldest to the youngest 0.62

00:39:07.120 of Sodom coming out 0.99

00:39:08.000 trying to rape these angels, 1.00

00:39:10.500 these male angels. 0.99

00:39:11.560 And, you know,

00:39:12.820 the scriptures are fully open

00:39:14.660 about the depths of depravity

00:39:16.160 in human beings too.

00:39:17.300 I think it's one of the things

00:39:18.040 I've actually appreciated.

00:39:19.520 I know there are people

00:39:20.240 who think I'm pretty normie

00:39:21.460 for saying this,

00:39:22.220 but Focus on the Family forever

00:39:23.620 has put out Plugged In Online,

00:39:25.780 which is their evaluation of movies.

00:39:27.460 And they're actually

00:39:27.960 usually pretty helpful.

00:39:29.200 They're helpful.

00:39:29.620 But one of the things I know Bob Smithhauser has said for a long time is the thing that you're particularly on guard for as a movie critic is when they're trying to make sin seem good.

00:39:40.080 Right.

00:39:40.700 And they're trying to make good things seem bad.

00:39:43.540 So a lot of times, like, if you watch a film or you watch a movie and it's like promiscuity, but it's like, oh, it's happy and it's joyful.

00:39:51.900 It's happy promiscuity.

00:39:52.920 Now, there is a way to rightly show it where it's like promiscuity leads to misery and death.

00:39:56.880 Right.

00:39:57.720 As does, you know, Proverbs is pretty explicit about where adultery leads as well.

00:40:02.320 So I think that's part of the question.

00:40:04.680 Getting back to my original question, Dan, which was about journalists.

00:40:07.940 How should a journalist be?

00:40:09.060 That's what your question was, journalists?

00:40:10.740 Yeah, exactly.

00:40:11.240 And I was waxing poetic about mountain paintings.

00:40:13.960 Exactly.

00:40:14.940 You're talking about, you know, Bob Ross, and I'm talking about, like, what should a journalist do?

00:40:19.580 And that's my world, right?

00:40:20.840 As a trained journalist, that's what I'm thinking about.

00:40:22.660 So here's what I would say to that question, to my own question.

00:40:26.400 I think a lot of it is, it's a lot of the same answer.

00:40:30.000 Look, we want to present reality as it is.

00:40:32.580 That is honoring God.

00:40:33.860 The things that are good, true, and beautiful, we want to give them airtime.

00:40:36.440 And the things that aren't, we want to show them as heinous and disgusting because that's what they are.

00:40:40.440 Exactly.

00:40:40.840 So in conservative journalism, we've often talked about this issue of like, should I use all the pronouns?

00:40:47.180 Should I talk about things in the way that the left wants the narrative to be driven?

00:40:52.000 My answer to those questions is no.

00:40:53.980 But I think there's also been an inherent problem with journalism. When I was in journalism school in college, one thing we were told is, listen, as a journalist, your job is to be neutral and to be completely objective.

00:41:07.560 And what we've realized through the years is even people who think they're objective aren't.

00:41:12.740 And finally, in more recent times, I had a boss say to me, he said, listen, we all have presuppositions.

00:41:19.880 Yeah.

00:41:19.960 it would be better if we just came to the table and said

00:41:22.540 this is where I'm coming from and this is what I think

00:41:24.840 is right, true, good, beautiful, whatever

00:41:26.580 and that's how I'm going to report

00:41:28.460 so this is a story

00:41:30.340 from the book Essentialism

00:41:31.820 but the late writer Nora Ephron, who was a journalist

00:41:34.860 also famous for movies like

00:41:36.620 Sleepless in Seattle and When Harry Met Sally

00:41:38.560 two of Brian's favorites by the way

00:41:40.740 yeah, two of Brian's favorites

00:41:41.500 top five for sure

00:41:43.400 Twilight's up there

00:41:44.940 she talks about the story in which she had a poignant lesson

00:41:48.500 from one of her journalism professors

00:41:49.940 and she said it made her realize. I realized that journalism was not just about regurgitating facts

00:41:56.000 but about figuring out the point. It wasn't enough to know the who, what, when, where. You had to

00:42:01.940 understand what it meant and why it mattered. And so my argument from that quote would be

00:42:06.380 you have to have a Christian worldview. Yeah. You have to understand the narrative that Christ

00:42:12.180 and the glory of God's redemptive history is pointing at. Absolutely. How could you tell a

00:42:18.240 story that does any of the things we've just said arts and media are supposed to do, which is to say

00:42:22.740 what reality is like, to notice what is true about the world that God made, to point out a way that

00:42:29.260 it's gone wrong and how to fix that, right? How to tell any of these good stories. How can you do

00:42:34.580 that if you don't actually understand the actual foundational reality of reality? Think about

00:42:44.140 think about how much of the world is just, did God create just to yell about death, burial,

00:42:50.940 and resurrection? Yeah. Like how much nature, human relationships, human history, all of these

00:42:58.220 things, God brought together 10 million strands of stories to tell that story of death, burial,

00:43:05.980 and resurrection. It reminds me of, I think it's in Notes from a Tilt-A-Whirl where Endy Wilson

00:43:11.040 is talking about God's exhaustive knowledge of all things. And one of the things that he points

00:43:17.300 out is that God knows, it might've been death by living. God knows the story, the epic story of

00:43:23.280 every ant that has ever lived, right? Like there are epic journeys that a carpenter ant has gone

00:43:29.860 on to save his colony or to, you know, and God knows every single one of them. And most of the

00:43:36.600 stories that he's written into reality, he's the only one who will know them. They were just there

00:43:43.540 because he is an interesting and interested God, right? The story of every butterfly that ever

00:43:49.040 dies and then is reborn, you know, every caterpillar that's ever dies and reborn. God

00:43:53.160 is telling that story 10 million times over every year. And he notices every one of them,

00:43:59.340 right? Like the story of God knows the story of how every cubic centimeter of earth,

00:44:05.840 which earth that can grow things, rich, fertile soil cannot exist without the death and burial

00:44:12.660 and composting of billions of organisms. If you factor in even bacteria and fungi and all these

00:44:19.080 things that God worked into the soil cycle so that crops could grow and trees could grow.

00:44:22.980 And we look at it and we're like dirt and bugs. And God is, he says, I'm telling the story

00:44:30.200 of all things of death, burial, resurrection, and glory in over and over and over. God doesn't

00:44:36.740 get tired of this story. How could you tell a true or beautiful story about anything

00:44:41.080 without knowing that that is what reality is pointed at? And what that means is that if you

00:44:46.760 do tell such a story, it's because maybe even without knowing it, you stole from the Christian

00:44:52.420 story. Think about even filmmakers or authors who have tried to intentionally subvert

00:45:00.180 that like uh what's his name no country for old men cormac mccarthy you know try to tell nihilistic

00:45:08.900 sort of stories even those you you walk away with a deep sense of wrongness which is a feature of

00:45:17.120 christianity well that's the target he's trying to hit too yeah yeah is actually trying to grade

00:45:22.340 against this instinctual idea of of what is right and what is wrong yeah you're right and all it

00:45:28.780 does is end up saying wow that's wrong that's not how it ought to be no you see that in like

00:45:33.440 the troubled hero yeah that's so popular today with superheroes the anti-hero and 0.77

00:45:37.900 yeah exactly yeah dumbledore has to be gay and he has to be all these whatever well i think that

00:45:44.120 actually in reading cormac mccarthy i always thought i think that's part of his war on grammar 0.81

00:45:49.920 as well oh yeah it's a war against the structures of western culture of objectivity i mean i'm a fan

00:45:56.080 because I actually don't know grammar at all.

00:46:00.220 I mean, it drives me nuts.

00:46:01.980 It's weird how...

00:46:03.780 I would rather just not use a period ever.

00:46:06.280 You read Jane Austen and then you read Cormac McCarthy

00:46:09.260 and it's like, yeah, no, I choose Jane Austen every time.

00:46:11.560 I actually just re-listened to Pride and Prejudice

00:46:15.340 on the way back from Grace and Jim.

00:46:17.080 That's like double digits in the last two years for him.

00:46:19.440 Yeah, dude, I'm just saying.

00:46:21.460 So we've argued that media is important.

00:46:24.080 We've argued that the people delivering media

00:46:25.800 are important their hearts and minds right the journalists now i want to ask a simple question

00:46:30.460 but it can have a variety of answers what's the status of media mainstream media but all media

00:46:36.920 in america today when you look about what do you see pop popular culture yeah i mean pop culture

00:46:46.660 so the music the books the music twice had music already movies is what i meant yeah tv all of it

00:46:55.780 is going to be very aged very quickly and i and i can say that with confidence because my wife and

00:47:05.020 i like to sometimes take a trip back in time she has like an instagram lady she follows

00:47:11.140 it's like relive your college days or something like that which isn't that long ago it's like 10

00:47:16.440 years ago and plays the music and has like the clothing style going out to the club because like

00:47:21.880 Wow, this is horrible.

00:47:22.900 That was the, anyway, I want to talk about that.

00:47:24.620 Yeah, all of it's terrible.

00:47:25.760 Boots like the fur.

00:47:27.400 Yep, all of it.

00:47:28.200 Isn't it her?

00:47:30.420 Brian was in elementary school.

00:47:31.860 I don't know how he knows that song.

00:47:33.300 Because they played it at the school dance.

00:47:34.660 It was so much of school.

00:47:36.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:36.900 So just looking at a very, very short period of time backwards in history,

00:47:42.420 you can see that all of this ages very, very quickly.

00:47:46.100 What is the difference then?

00:47:47.420 This is, I think, a fascinating subject that we probably don't have time for.

00:47:52.280 What is the difference between a song or a movie or a story?

00:47:55.960 Story is probably the easiest one to use in as an example, but music is also really good.

00:48:00.560 What is the difference between a song that is aged in five years versus a song that's

00:48:05.560 been around for 500 years?

00:48:07.560 Or why is Shakespeare still around when movies, you see it once and you're like, oh, gross.

00:48:13.220 I hope I never see that again.

00:48:14.340 or like, you know, the big box office hit is not going to be seen in 20 years.

00:48:19.300 Nobody's going to be interested.

00:48:20.660 What is the difference between them?

00:48:22.440 Yeah, I'm going to tie my answer together to something.

00:48:24.980 I was recently rereading Pat Buchanan's book, The Death of the West.

00:48:28.640 That book always fascinates me because it was just as poignant,

00:48:32.020 just as true in 2002 as it is today.

00:48:35.660 Like if you read that book today, there's not one single thing about it

00:48:38.340 that's like, oh, yeah, I forgot things were like that.

00:48:41.160 You would think he was writing about right now.

00:48:43.680 And I think part of his answer is an answer to your question as well, that really what's going on with media is it's an extension of the Marxist leftist state and regime.

00:48:56.440 OK, so what they got serious real quick.

00:48:58.800 Yeah. What they did is they captured the institutions.

00:49:01.760 Yeah. Herbert Marcuse and the long march through the institutions.

00:49:05.840 That was all critical theory, by the way, who was seeking to do that.

00:49:09.500 Well, here we are now where that stuff is in every sphere.

00:49:13.420 They're teaching critical race theory to kids, social, emotional learning.

00:49:17.000 Media has been completely, and media institutions have been completely hijacked by the Marxist left.

00:49:22.860 So now you go on Netflix, which could be a really powerful platform for good things.

00:49:29.280 And what do you see?

00:49:30.460 You see like grooming little children.

00:49:33.060 Groomers, all of them.

00:49:34.540 Yeah, everybody's a groomer.

00:49:35.720 So what I want to say is that would be my assessment of media today right now is it's part of the propaganda machine for the status left.

00:49:44.900 And because that's true, it means that it will not tell stories that have staying power because it's trying to tell an anti-reality story.

00:49:53.880 Well, they're lies.

00:49:54.760 It's trying to tell a story that puts forward as true what is not true, right?

00:50:00.060 So when you look at what makes something like, again, Pride and Prejudice or Shakespeare are actually two really good examples from completely disparate times that are enduring stories or even to come to a modern place, something like Shawshank Redemption, which is a phenomenal film.

00:50:17.040 Stephen King, right?

00:50:17.600 Yeah, Stephen King. Actually, Stephen King's books in general, he tends to do this well, even though he has a lot of smut and isn't a Christian and is in some ways telling an untruth about reality. 0.99

00:50:26.620 but what is it with all those qualifiers but yet he can't help sometimes but tell a good story

00:50:32.420 because he's stealing from the christian world but what makes those great what makes austin and

00:50:37.500 shakespeare great what makes shawshank redemption great well one through line is that they all

00:50:42.040 notice and present these archetypal human beings that we all know exist and they unveil them in a

00:50:49.300 way that helps you understand the world you live in and people you know today because they're like

00:50:54.180 mr darcy or they're like elizabeth or they're like you know othello or they're like these

00:51:00.120 characters in these stories these people are often good artists are often astute observers

00:51:06.240 of reality and human nature like the foibles and the virtues yeah like a good comedian same a great

00:51:14.020 example because totally different medium but what makes good comedy is what makes good fiction is

00:51:18.500 what makes good documentary story they notice things they notice they're good observers of

00:51:22.900 reality and they're interested in the world God made. And so they begin to notice these common

00:51:28.100 character flaws. And then they sort of put them under a magnifying glass in a character like

00:51:33.360 the pastor in Pride and Prejudice or, you know, Mr. Collins or Mr. Darcy, who's proud and arrogant 0.98

00:51:41.820 and sins like a man sins or Elizabeth who gossips and sins like a woman sins or her foolish younger 0.91

00:51:47.980 sister mary who you know all who telling truths because people are actually like that yes and so

00:51:53.740 you look at those characters and you say i know these people because they're of students but now

00:51:57.820 if you tell the story of a faithful gay couple you don't know that person because they're very 1.00

00:52:03.080 they're hardly ever exist they literally are telling an untruth or a benevolent state as 0.77

00:52:07.740 communist propaganda tells they don't really exist christendom bible college offers a one-year

00:52:14.260 certificate in the humanities for students who intend to pursue a degree or for students who

00:52:18.820 prefer to begin their chosen occupations upon completion of our program. Older students who

00:52:24.160 never attended college or who went to a college where the humanities were less robust will also

00:52:29.260 find our program stimulating and suitable. Located steps from the Ohio River and the town of New

00:52:34.840 Richmond, we're unaccredited in order to remain free to teach as our biblically-minded consciences

00:52:40.520 demand. As servants of Christ, we won't wear the yoke of the woke. Instead, we stand on the

00:52:47.400 shoulders of Christianity's giants, not to stew in nostalgia, but to see through the culture wars

00:52:52.980 fall, for the glorious days of a Christendom still to be built. Our exceptional faculty are

00:52:58.620 committed to the historic biblical foundations of our faith. Come be a part of Christendom Bible

00:53:04.220 College. Visit us on the web at ChristendomBibleCollege.org to learn more. While there,

00:53:10.980 be sure to sign up for our email updates and receive your free three-chapter excerpt

00:53:15.740 of our very own Dr. Frank J. Smith's new book, Race, Church, and Society.

00:53:24.940 It's interesting. I have to throw this in there because we're talking about Pride and Prejudice.

00:53:29.060 We did, for the Hard Man podcast, we did the best books. My wife listened to all of it.

00:53:34.220 And then she goes, I'm disgusted.

00:53:37.160 Why?

00:53:38.020 And I said, Jerry, why are you disgusted?

00:53:40.020 And she goes, you could not remember the name of Lady Catherine de Bourgh?

00:53:44.400 De Bourgh.

00:53:45.060 And I was like, I know we were on Meets Capades.

00:53:47.960 Such a good character, Lady Catherine de Bourgh.

00:53:50.720 Such a good character.

00:53:52.440 She just shows the, like, and actually another thing that makes Shakespeare and Austen and

00:53:59.340 authors from earlier times so great for us to read now is because we're so we're so

00:54:06.300 steeped in a culture awash with lies about human nature yeah that you go back and you're like no 0.97

00:54:13.460 that really is how women tend to sin because she you know both of those shakespeare and austin 0.82

00:54:18.300 portray female gossip all over the place this is a little off off subject but one of the things

00:54:23.820 that I am absolutely amazed at with Shakespeare is that he was actually like pop. Yeah. Like

00:54:30.760 playwright. He would tie into the zeitgeist of the time. He would see like certain things going

00:54:35.700 on with the monarchy. And then he's like, I'm going to tell a story. And then he would write

00:54:39.640 a story for the time. Yeah. That time, specific time, what's going on at that time where he is.

00:54:45.500 And we still read it today. And so like you're saying, it transcends just a moment because

00:54:51.040 you're actually getting a peek behind the scenes of what are humans like? What is the truth?

00:54:56.000 And Christians, because Christians have this key, it's like we're looking at a map and Christians 0.91

00:55:03.780 have the key. We can look at the symbols in the world. It's like our cheat code. Yeah. The

00:55:08.300 archetypes, the typology that God's built into the world, even in human society. And we can see

00:55:14.340 what's happening. We can see sin and folly or wisdom and glory, and we can name them and describe

00:55:20.840 them accurately because we're Christians and we understand the God who made them all.

00:55:25.620 So this is one of the reasons why historically Christians have made some of the most enduring

00:55:31.440 and greatest stories of all time. Christians have been the ones who have done that. And so one of

00:55:36.220 the things that we need to recover is a storytelling, a culture of art and music and

00:55:43.800 beauty and architecture that tells the truth about the world in its glory and its inglory.

00:55:49.940 Not like a varnished Christian version, like a Sunday school, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.87

00:55:53.960 Like Jesus junk, testaments and whatnot at Lifeway. 0.92

00:55:56.840 Testaments, yeah. 0.96

00:55:57.300 Well, speaking of which.

00:55:58.200 Wall hangings.

00:55:59.300 Yeah, go ahead.

00:56:00.240 Speaking of which, this brings me to the next subsection that we're talking about.

00:56:05.360 Uh-oh, are we going to talk about Christian media?

00:56:06.760 We're going to talk about Christian media.

00:56:08.120 So one of the reasons, if I was playing devil's advocate, one of the problems is we're like,

00:56:12.440 okay, everything you guys say about Christendom sounds great.

00:56:15.920 And when you describe art or you read, you know, Angels in the Architecture or you read Francis Schaeffer on art or any number of books like this, you think, wow, that's a grand vision.

00:56:25.800 Yeah. 0.92

00:56:26.120 Well, speaking of grand visions, let's take a look at what Christian media is producing today.

00:56:31.940 Go to your annual Christian Broadcasters Association.

00:56:35.460 Do we have to?

00:56:36.240 Go to the Christian apps in the app bookstore.

00:56:39.420 And what's crazy about this is I'm going to ask you a question here.

00:56:42.400 Okay.

00:56:42.840 I promise it's not raining forever.

00:56:44.100 But Christians actually aren't without resources and capital when it comes to media.

00:56:49.260 There's actually a lot of money wrapped up in Christendom. 0.99

00:56:52.360 The problem is, and I'm just going to be blunt on this one, the stuff that we produce is absolute garbage. 0.97

00:56:57.860 Well, it's—I'm—continue. 0.96

00:57:00.060 Yeah, so when I was growing up, my parents, every now and then, would take me to church, you know, once biannually, every two years or something.

00:57:09.720 I'd go to church and my friends when we'd go there

00:57:12.240 they would say hey you know

00:57:13.980 here's the really cool Christian thing and I was like oh

00:57:16.120 what is it and they're like watch Facing the Giants

00:57:18.380 and as a non-believer 0.99

00:57:21.800 I was like this is the cheesiest gayest thing 0.98

00:57:24.100 in the world and now I thought there was something 0.97

00:57:26.100 wrong with me and then I became a Christian and I

00:57:28.040 watched it again and I was like

00:57:29.000 I appreciate what the Kendrick brothers

00:57:31.980 were trying to do but it becomes 0.99

00:57:34.200 this ham-fisted like my life sucks 0.95

00:57:36.180 then I get Christ 0.99

00:57:37.420 and now I win state championships 1.00

00:57:39.620 and my barren wife has babies. 0.99

00:57:41.820 And then I go live life in the world 0.99

00:57:43.940 and I say, yeah, but that's not the way it is.

00:57:47.480 That's not a representation of reality.

00:57:50.280 It's cheesy.

00:57:51.540 It's ham-fisted.

00:57:52.720 It's not something that goes,

00:57:54.260 that makes me say internally,

00:57:55.800 wow, the glory and the power of that story.

00:57:58.740 Yeah, so I was just going to say 0.96

00:57:59.860 the reason that Christian media 1.00

00:58:01.460 and entertainment has sucked 1.00

00:58:03.300 is because that's what it can make. 0.93

00:58:05.200 it's a reflection of the culture it's a reflection of the people what's a reflection of how cheesy

00:58:11.680 shallow and lame christian culture is that's exactly my point if you distilled it down into a

00:58:17.540 big fast and famous produces that yeah you you distilled it down the culture down in into a 0.98

00:58:23.620 glass and you took a sip of it that's what it would be it would be cheese flavored garbage well

00:58:27.840 and and so you see that in other other cultures though as you look at like the the modern art 0.98

00:58:33.420 like i read about you get piss christ and you get like semen blood human breast milk i'm sorry

00:58:40.400 you guys have to listen to this this is true no that's what they're doing that's what it is that's 0.89

00:58:43.720 what yeah that's what demons produce yes christ yeah they that's what they produce and then

00:58:48.800 slightly better and so they get together and they have their fine wines and they look at the art 0.94

00:58:53.180 gallery of half naked women covered in blood uh with catholic priests and all of these disgusting 0.58

00:59:00.560 images. And, and that's the culture that they have. They have a culture of death. They have 1.00

00:59:05.780 a culture of sexual immorality. They have a culture of demons. And so that's what they're 1.00

00:59:09.500 going to produce is a culture of demons. And they keep trying to shove it down your throat.

00:59:13.160 Even looking at like the new Lord of the Rings deal on Amazon, even though people hate it,

00:59:18.880 they know they're going to watch it. I'm not. They're like, I'm going to shove it down your

00:59:22.540 throat anyway. Even if you don't like it and you complain, you're still going to watch it

00:59:26.220 because you have no principles. It doesn't exist. Yeah. I'm going to pretend

00:59:30.500 Unlike the Hobbit movies that it doesn't exist.

00:59:32.020 Well, I mean, yeah.

00:59:33.420 I mean, I'm not going to watch it either.

00:59:35.120 But my point in general, still, all of these Lord of the Rings fans are going to watch it 0.95

00:59:39.200 because they're serving up the plate of garbage.

00:59:42.160 And the people are like, well, it's not what I prefer. 0.64

00:59:44.200 I guess I have to eat it.

00:59:44.900 But I'll eat it anyway. 1.00

00:59:46.040 Instead of having Christians actually make something that's like a 100-proof whiskey, 1.00

00:59:51.180 like something that's potent and something that's true, 0.99

00:59:53.860 we satisfy with the garbage that we're served.

00:59:55.920 And a lot of the time, what it comes down to is that sometimes it's easy to underestimate

01:00:02.280 the difficulty of making truly great art, truly great storytelling, truly great music,

01:00:12.240 truly great architecture. These are not easy things. You actually have to have people

01:00:17.780 who are true craftsmen and true artists in these genres. And even then-

01:00:23.940 And it's hard as a Christian to exist in them. 0.89

01:00:25.680 It's still hard.

01:00:26.440 It's very difficult.

01:00:27.520 That's why there are...

01:00:28.460 Gatekeeping makes that really difficult as well.

01:00:29.900 There are hundreds and hundreds of mediocre and forgettable films

01:00:33.780 for every one or two or five truly great films.

01:00:39.700 Like Twilight.

01:00:40.880 Have you ever been punching the jejunum?

01:00:43.360 Like Twilight, Eric.

01:00:44.840 Why do you keep bringing up Twilight?

01:00:45.820 Eric loves Twilight.

01:00:46.780 Have you read Twilight?

01:00:47.800 I've actually never seen nor read it.

01:00:49.320 I've never seen nor read any of it.

01:00:51.400 I gather from a distance, it's hypergate.

01:00:53.240 I only know things about it that people have made fun of.

01:00:55.860 Like, I think the vampires sparkle.

01:00:58.500 Dumbledore?

01:00:59.180 Whatever.

01:00:59.760 Anyway, so when you look at that, 1.00

01:01:02.620 what Christians often want to do 0.83

01:01:05.180 is they want to treat these artistic and media endeavors 0.94

01:01:08.560 as sort of taco shells to put a worldview into

01:01:13.500 and just serve to people.

01:01:14.720 Can I add to that?

01:01:16.420 Yeah, go ahead.

01:01:16.960 While you're there,

01:01:17.880 it's like they're viewing the movie

01:01:19.340 like a cheesy veneer to a gospel tract.

01:01:22.440 Exactly.

01:01:22.880 It's the paper you printed on. However, that's not actually the way that this works.

01:01:27.820 Or good stories in general.

01:01:28.920 Anybody who's ever attempted to create a poem, a story, a song, a piece of art, literature,

01:01:36.860 you know how hard it is. You know how true, like God has to give talent and then you have to

01:01:43.660 cultivate it to a fine edge in the company of other people who'll be honest with you about

01:01:49.000 your work and give you like this is very difficult stuff and so when what christians want to do i

01:01:53.820 even when you ask this question i pulled up the wikipedia page christian media and it says

01:02:00.120 christian media sometimes referred to as inspirational faith and family or simply

01:02:03.440 christian is a cross-media genre that features a christian message or moral and that is so

01:02:09.420 perfect because what a lot of christian you know quote-unquote christian artistic endeavors are

01:02:15.020 is they're basically trying to just package some kind of moral story. 0.96

01:02:20.820 But it's like trinkety junk.

01:02:22.040 And they treat the medium as packaging.

01:02:25.180 Yeah.

01:02:25.600 That's the problem.

01:02:27.060 You actually can't do that because the media must be excellent and beautiful

01:02:32.860 and done with skill or it won't actually communicate the message you want it to.

01:02:38.260 And so what we need partly is, and actually there are people

01:02:43.600 who are doing a good job of recovering some of these things.

01:02:46.280 And it does, you know, another thing is that it takes millions and millions

01:02:49.720 and millions of dollars to make a great film a lot of the time.

01:02:51.960 Not all films, but it really does take a lot of money to do these things. 0.95

01:02:56.540 And Christians generally look at the periods of history 0.79

01:02:59.040 where the Christians were the one producing the most glorious of everything. 0.92

01:03:04.100 It was a time when the bulk of the money in those industries

01:03:08.200 were going to produce those things.

01:03:11.400 Well, when you think about even something like what we do,

01:03:13.600 with with podcasting i've had people ask me well why don't you have a tv studio like joe rogan

01:03:18.320 yeah we would love to you can make checks can be made payable checks made payable but i think what

01:03:25.140 you're finding is it's the same thing when i started well seriously if you want to give money

01:03:28.540 we have a venmo too yeah yeah send your tax deductible contributions too but i think a big

01:03:36.340 part of it is something that we've we've been hammering on and again i found this out with

01:03:39.500 the hard man podcast is is look if you want to produce genuinely biblical christian content just

01:03:45.620 authentic good celebrating good true beautiful all that good stuff a you're going to be hated

01:03:51.640 by the culture b even a lot of christians are willing to support you know netflix or whatever

01:03:58.260 else but then when you have guys you know going on a limb and saying like hey we need to you know

01:04:04.140 we need to do this good quality media venture,

01:04:08.500 it genuinely is hard because we don't have $200 million, most of us, to deal with.

01:04:14.600 My argument, though, is when you look, okay,

01:04:17.100 you had guys behind Walden Media who gave hundreds of millions of dollars

01:04:22.640 to produce Narnia.

01:04:24.840 Yeah. 1.00

01:04:25.340 Well, what that tells me, Christian guys, 1.00

01:04:27.660 what that tells me is there's money there, 0.93

01:04:30.120 but this goes back to things we've talked about in the past.

01:04:33.320 A lot of that money is going to Ben Shapiro.

01:04:35.820 A lot of money is going to the Daily Wire 0.88

01:04:38.160 and the celebration of gay marriage. 1.00

01:04:40.300 Yeah, and the first thing that they do

01:04:42.360 when you give money to this conservative group

01:04:46.080 is they go and they make, again,

01:04:50.020 they make sometimes excellent, I'm sure, media

01:04:52.160 that is absolutely at war with reality.

01:04:54.300 Yeah. 1.00

01:04:54.600 Because they're not Christians.

01:04:56.460 Well, even think about, I think it was Daily Wire, 1.00

01:04:58.880 they try to make a Western and like Gina Carano is the hero. 0.92

01:05:01.560 oh yeah they were just getting like canceled actors like butch like overly masculine like

01:05:08.520 strong feminine woman who's tougher than the guys they're trying to show like look conservatives

01:05:12.340 are pro-women too but they instead they just continue propping up the narrative of being

01:05:17.040 pro-women by saying women are basically men right who says i'm gay you are gay again they're just at

01:05:22.700 war with reality so you look at you know the state of christian media but uh and one of the problems

01:05:29.860 is that Christians often want to treat the medium cheaply because they view the medium as sort of

01:05:37.280 unimportant packaging to the message. So to the Christian, they would say, even if it's super

01:05:42.820 cheesy and poorly made, I want this Christian media to go out. And so we're going to, you know, 0.98

01:05:47.340 we're going to raise 50 grand and we're going to make a documentary or whatever.

01:05:50.580 Not understanding that really, truly to make a lot of like the most glorious Christian art,

01:05:56.380 it's going to take tens of millions of dollars for some of it. But then the other thing that

01:06:00.720 I think happens is that on the other hand, you get people who notice who are total wolves and 0.71

01:06:07.640 not Christians. And they look out and they notice, you know what? There are actually a whole lot of 0.92

01:06:11.900 Christians in this country and they all have jobs and money and I want their money. So then they 1.00

01:06:17.660 make the lowest common denominator, megachurchianity, mass appeal, Christian Jesus junk. 0.92

01:06:24.300 and they do it to make money yes yeah so you see this a lot with musicians actually oh yeah with

01:06:30.480 like the gospel singers you had carrie underwood and i i think britney spears even even got her

01:06:36.140 start what is a gospel singer and then on made no made the move into you know popular culture

01:06:44.500 the civil wars girl oh the singer joy beth williams joy williams started as a christian

01:06:51.000 artist some of the more recent music that's what you should go listen to the worship song song by

01:06:55.900 random action verb band which is a parody of christian worship but it's like you know i could

01:07:01.240 write i guarantee you i could write a chris thomlin song in 10 minutes i'll describe the

01:07:07.860 chord progression g2 d suspended c2 e minor d every seventh conductor being connected by a

01:07:16.580 non-reversible tremie pipe to the differential girdle spring on the up end of the gram meters.

01:07:21.640 See, you know, and then you just, you sing like things that, you know, God set us on fire. You

01:07:27.680 are our desire. Your name is holy. Come and fill me. With guacamole. With guacamole. You know,

01:07:35.060 you just, and you look at that and you go, compare that to dawn. Compare that to Paradise Lost.

01:07:42.400 compare that to some of the christian poetry that is in our inheritance and it was not easy to make

01:07:52.060 someone labored and spent spent their life and their energy laboring to create beautiful words

01:07:58.540 to describe this world that god made well because in part they believed that it was a noble task

01:08:02.900 yeah whereas fundamentally when you again you boil down uh modern christianity the medium doesn't

01:08:10.180 matter. Only the very root of the message, which is I need to sneak in a gospel presentation.

01:08:16.400 Your decisionism. Exactly. So it doesn't matter. Why would you spend $200 million on a movie

01:08:22.460 when you just want to tell as many people as possible that Jesus loves you?

01:08:26.440 There was actually a movie I watched. I downloaded it last minute while getting on an airplane.

01:08:30.600 It had Robert Duvall. So I thought, oh, it's good. It's like a golf movie.

01:08:34.520 It's like the cheesiest Christian movie of all time. Oh no. 1.00

01:08:37.860 This guy, like, you know, he's putting his life back together and, like, it's all, like, small town.

01:08:42.800 You know, it's like a Hallmark movie.

01:08:44.500 Yeah.

01:08:44.920 And then he gets to, like, this golf tournament and, like, the final hole, he goes to hit the shot.

01:08:49.520 And the movie ends before the ball drops in the hole.

01:08:53.660 And it's like, to find out more, go to da-da-da-da.

01:08:56.460 No!

01:08:57.100 And I was like, well, how did it end?

01:08:59.720 It was a bait and switch?

01:09:00.740 I go to that site and it's like, you're probably wondering how this movie ends.

01:09:05.160 Well, have you accepted the Lord Jesus Christ into your life?

01:09:07.780 Click yes, and we'll show you the end.

01:09:08.920 And I was like, gosh dang it, I want to see the end of this movie.

01:09:11.620 And there was no end to the movie.

01:09:13.480 Oh, that's cold. 0.70

01:09:14.840 It was disgusting.

01:09:15.340 That's super cold. 1.00

01:09:16.100 People are converting to Buddhism because of that.

01:09:17.940 Well, it's the same thing as like the people that leave the tips of a $100 bill, but it's a fake.

01:09:23.420 It's just like you probably thought you just got really rich.

01:09:26.700 Well, you know what will make you eternally rich?

01:09:28.260 The Lord Jesus Christ.

01:09:30.240 Well, you're actually still poor, though. 0.99

01:09:33.000 Sucks to be you. 0.99

01:09:34.080 sucks to be you thanks for filling my water up so promptly though whenever i drank it all 0.99

01:09:38.500 so here's the other why are they southern brian i'm assuming i'm assuming i'm just assuming that's 0.93

01:09:44.100 very bible belt you know like you know that actually reminds me speaking of accents this

01:09:48.860 is like way back to an earlier point but the whole thing where people think i'm just going to tell the

01:09:52.640 story objectively neutrally yeah it's like saying you're going to talk without an accent

01:09:57.560 you always have an accent you just think yours is normal anyway i just that's actually a really

01:10:03.980 That's a really good point.

01:10:04.820 That's a really good point.

01:10:05.720 So one of the things, we're talking about Christian media still at this point.

01:10:10.200 One of the articles I've written on the Hard Men podcast,

01:10:13.120 well, it's actually at ericahn.com.

01:10:14.860 We'll provide links in the show notes. 0.94

01:10:17.200 Shameless plug.

01:10:18.760 It's titled How the Christian Media Industry is at War with Men. 0.99

01:10:21.840 Now, this is interesting because we've talked about what's chintzy and crappy 0.71

01:10:25.580 and all that stuff with Christian media. 0.99

01:10:27.300 So we're talking about things like, you know, K-Love and Passion Conferences

01:10:31.200 with louis giglio and you know a lot of that stuff but even in the christian reformed world

01:10:37.440 you've got the gospel coalition and you've got a lot of stuff in that space which people like

01:10:42.180 paul maxwell i think argued well they're actually at war with christianity too and so uh one of the

01:10:49.040 things they pointed out with people like tim keller recently endorsing a book titled biblical

01:10:54.120 critical theory oh he wrote the forward to it does it is it is the subtitle sucks no or doesn't

01:11:03.540 exist it's basically he's trying to show i think uh from reading the uh sort of the back cover so

01:11:09.200 to speak uh he's trying to jive critical theory with a biblical worldview which of course is 0.94

01:11:15.920 ridiculous you've got christianity today they're openly feminist they just hired an openly feminist 0.97

01:11:22.140 woman. I mean, whatever. Russell Moore. 1.00

01:11:25.860 I repeat myself. Eric getting us

01:11:28.320 in trouble every time. Every time. Getting us

01:11:30.220 in trouble. Once again, direct

01:11:32.320 your emails to eric.

01:11:34.780 the con man at

01:11:36.320 manmail.com

01:11:38.920 Yeah, but try that.

01:11:40.120 See if it works. I don't know. I'm just assuming.

01:11:42.580 So we've got all these Christians. Hard manmail.com 1.00

01:11:44.680 Don't go there.

01:11:46.320 I don't know if it exists. Don't try it.

01:11:48.700 You got all these outlets who are supposed

01:11:50.140 to be pro-Christian crossway recently talking about the idolatry of motherhood right all pushing

01:11:56.160 a pro-left anti-biblical sexuality marxist open borders anti-white message so i think even in in

01:12:04.160 that sector of christendom most people feel like hey they're at war with us and you'd actually be

01:12:09.520 right so i want to close with really a question about strategy yeah yeah and the question is can 0.88

01:12:17.720 Christians win? And if so, how? What should our strategy be? If we were to take this Boniface

01:12:23.900 option, King's Hall approach, and then apply it to media, what would that look like for us?

01:12:32.160 Well, one thing to understand first is that we are in the early days still of this massive,

01:12:41.280 massive technological transformation that has happened. And Christians, and I'm talking about 0.59

01:12:46.060 the internet, digital media, all these things. Digital currencies. Crypto is king. Bitcoin. 0.74

01:12:52.460 Anyway, historically, Christians have been the ones who have grabbed onto these new technologies.

01:12:58.760 The Bible is the first thing printed on the Gutenberg press, right? Christian literature

01:13:02.200 explodes through that. Christians in the early medieval times and prior are the ones who are 0.98

01:13:08.880 preserving the thought of the West in monasteries and preserving these written works, even of

01:13:16.440 Greeks and Greek philosophy and Roman philosophy and things like that. So Christians ought to be 0.99

01:13:21.780 looking at this moment where we have these new technologies. And I even mean cutting-edge

01:13:26.680 technologies like now we have artificial intelligence translation, artificial intelligence

01:13:32.300 narration, and things like that. Jess Hall, again, the CEO of Canon Press, was talking about this in

01:13:37.660 his talk at the Grace Agenda Men seminar. We saw those pictures too, even floating around social

01:13:42.360 media, like the AI kingdom of heaven pictures. Oh yeah. Yeah. They're stunning. So you see what

01:13:48.480 human ingenuity is doing. Humans taking dominion and creating culture, technology, and things like

01:13:54.440 that that can be used for evil, but also they can be used for tremendous good. And so Christians 0.99

01:14:00.920 shouldn't be like, oh, you know, the internet, the social media is that once again with Southern 0.93

01:14:06.040 accent. Southern accent. You know, they're, they're, they're the, the, the, you and your

01:14:09.140 fancy foothball friends, you know, they're, they're of the devil. No, we should actually 0.84

01:14:12.920 be saying, how can we, how can we go and conquer these mediums? How can we go and make the best

01:14:19.940 podcasts, the best audio books, the best films, documentaries, because we're Christians, we need

01:14:26.660 to ban electricity. Then no one can watch the foothball. But what Christians often do is they

01:14:33.940 they artificially narrow and limit the scope of what kind of endeavors they're aiming for. 0.93

01:14:40.340 So they say, oh, podcasts, let's make 50,000 reformed bro theology podcasts, which is really

01:14:49.080 a meta thing for me to say on a reformed bro theology and culture podcast.

01:14:55.680 But you know what else we should be doing? We should be making the best fictional storytelling

01:15:01.220 podcasts i thought you were gonna say music true we should be making the greatest music we should

01:15:07.560 be making you know that's i mean so like the theoborough podcast world yeah i actually

01:15:13.840 wouldn't put us there uh because i was just being self-deprecating which is kind of effeminate so

01:15:18.060 i'm sorry yeah good don't apologize you didn't do anything wrong brian real men never i'm getting

01:15:23.100 i'm getting hoisted on my own petard john wayne oh man a little shakespeare a petard right for you

01:15:29.280 Yeah, wasted by his own petard. 0.79

01:15:32.020 A lot of sexual innuendo in Shakespeare, by the way, but go on.

01:15:35.680 Yes, I want to ask a question, though.

01:15:38.300 You look at what's going on in Reformed circles, 1.00

01:15:41.620 and I wonder, too, why are they so bad at culture so many times? 1.00

01:15:45.800 And what I mean is, it's like, unless we're talking about theology works

01:15:49.540 or our favorite Baptist preacher, we have nothing to say to anything.

01:15:53.960 Well, think about this.

01:15:55.740 One of the instincts that has suffused certain corners of Reformed Christendom, of Reformed Christianity, is a skepticism about adorning and arts.

01:16:13.760 Everything should be beauty.

01:16:14.540 Well, the Puritan instinct.

01:16:16.520 Yeah, and there are directions that the Puritans took that.

01:16:20.280 It should be drab.

01:16:21.240 Where I understand, I absolutely understand the instinct, and I understand the principles they were operating on.

01:16:27.300 I don't want to one-dimensionalize them.

01:16:28.740 These were serious men, serious thinkers who built serious Christian culture.

01:16:33.300 And at the same time, I think that there were areas where they overreacted to things they were seeing

01:16:38.340 and ended up throwing out some of the things that they ought to have actually been creating with excellence,

01:16:47.300 things like beauty and art.

01:16:49.220 So I think that's certainly...

01:16:50.680 It's like an ascetic instinct.

01:16:52.160 Yeah, there's an ascetic instinct in Christian faith.

01:16:56.380 You know, but one of the things that I think might be driving it to be charitable

01:16:59.620 is that Christians think we live in serious times where people are dying and going to hell.

01:17:08.140 And we have the gospel of the kingdom of God.

01:17:11.920 So why wouldn't we make everything we do be just 100% completely transparently about that?

01:17:20.680 And anything we do, it should drive always to a gospel presentation and altar call.

01:17:26.820 I get the thought process that leads you there, but what you end up doing because you're operating

01:17:32.700 on a thin anthropology, you're failing to recognize that human beings are not brains

01:17:39.320 on a stick. Human beings are not just USB drives that you plug into a hard drive, give a gospel

01:17:43.960 presentation. Human beings are embodied souls within the world. They have all these senses

01:17:49.540 that God has given them. And all of this beauty and sounds and tastes and smells and stories and

01:17:55.060 longings and hopes, they're supposed to be, as Lewis described, like sunbeams coming through a

01:17:59.500 hole in the garden shed that makes you want to put your eye to that hole and follow the light

01:18:05.320 up to the sun. God is the creator of all good things. And so I think Christians can sometimes

01:18:10.620 be too quick to try and sum up everything in gospel presentation and bald theology 0.50

01:18:18.180 and failed to recognize that one of the most powerful ways

01:18:21.320 to actually teach theology and to evangelize the world

01:18:26.800 is through indirect means and through beauty

01:18:30.240 and through the shaping of the hopes and longings of people.

01:18:32.920 In the same way, God could have just revealed himself,

01:18:34.980 kind of like a bad sci-fi book,

01:18:38.440 where the guy, he does world building,

01:18:40.820 and he's like, here's a rock planet.

01:18:42.160 It's all rock, and there's just crustaceans,

01:18:44.880 and there's a storm that goes around it.

01:18:46.940 And that's the, that's the world really boring and uninteresting. Right. But God didn't make a

01:18:52.220 world like that, nor are people like that. You're talking about Brandon Sanderson? I did.

01:18:56.480 Wow. Okay. All right. Actually the world building was more interesting,

01:19:00.320 but he fundamentally believes a lie. He's Mormon. Yeah. Yeah. He, he, he believes a lie that he made 1.00

01:19:04.780 a Mormon universe, that this world isn't that interesting. So he had to make a lie, but anyway, 0.72

01:19:08.360 we can get into that in a different, different episode. But the point is people aren't like

01:19:12.380 that either people aren't just like a one-dimensional so we live on like a there's

01:19:16.880 actually like this spiritual plane and that's all that we all that we are i mean none of the

01:19:22.400 none of these uh theo bros that you know we're just throwing in like a buck them in a bucket

01:19:27.060 live like that either they don't just their entertainment isn't like well i i'm just going

01:19:32.940 to read jonathan edwards that's my entertainment no these guys watch the office like they go to

01:19:38.100 work they they like other things like cigars and i don't know what else they like right but but

01:19:44.440 they're more complex than that too to where a story shouldn't just always dive down into the

01:19:49.560 one thing and that's a gospel presentation for decisionism because we found also that that's

01:19:55.120 not effective because that's not how good god designed actually uh the winning of men's hearts

01:20:00.260 wasn't through just like oh here's a here's a thesis you know here's your problem here's the

01:20:05.680 solution. Make a decision. Two propositions and a conclusion. Correct. Right. I'm pretty sure I

01:20:10.980 mentioned this before, but somewhere Peter Lightheart has an article about this where

01:20:14.620 like a lot of Protestant evangelicals in the way they make movies is very conversionistic.

01:20:19.500 Yeah. Like everything's bad. You get saved. Everything's good. Right. And it tended to be 1.00

01:20:24.240 that Scorsese and others Catholics were the ones who understood the sanctification that 1.00

01:20:28.360 like a Christian could have a real depth of depravity. The complexity. Yeah. There's a lot 1.00

01:20:33.260 of complexity and a lot of layering so i think that's a huge part of it so i think we'll close

01:20:37.260 with this we we really have a couple strategies i think when it comes to how do we engage with

01:20:42.380 media number one is that we fundamentally we just abandon the institutions or we recapture them yeah

01:20:49.820 i think there's you know that's that's one strategy you can either go one one of two ways on

01:20:53.800 that i think in the short term that recapturing say like the new york times is not going to happen

01:21:01.220 No.

01:21:02.200 Not going to happen. 0.98

01:21:03.060 Like, Indy Wilson has a show on Netflix.

01:21:05.360 Right.

01:21:05.900 Yeah.

01:21:06.720 Hello, Ninja.

01:21:08.180 Hello, Ninja.

01:21:09.020 That's right.

01:21:09.820 I think you can, we almost have to do what Marcuse was doing in the 70s, which is a long, slow march through the institutions.

01:21:16.580 Like, you're going to have to infiltrate and be subtle and do those things.

01:21:20.720 I think people should be doing that.

01:21:22.000 Yeah, so I know you're summarizing, but with Hello, Ninja, it's very subtle.

01:21:27.340 It's very subtle.

01:21:28.240 But there are things like the boy character won't allow the girl character

01:21:31.700 to go into battle.

01:21:33.080 He's like always taking the lead.

01:21:34.800 That's the subtle.

01:21:36.060 That's the subtle thing.

01:21:37.620 Because if he was, anyway.

01:21:39.320 So that's, yeah, the subtlety.

01:21:40.900 Slow march.

01:21:42.080 Just get your finger, you know, in there.

01:21:44.020 Yeah, and it's helpful.

01:21:44.580 I don't think anyone is necessarily like you have to take this one.

01:21:48.300 Strategy number two, this is the Torba, I think a little bit of Lore TV,

01:21:52.780 Canon Press, which is that you build adjacent or parallel media.

01:21:56.400 Yeah.

01:21:57.060 Right?

01:21:57.320 you can't impress you've mentioned them um they've done a really good job uh building media where

01:22:02.100 it's like you know i have uh pretty much can consume on the canon press app kind of all day

01:22:07.200 long yep listen to books podcasts pretty much all edifying yep um and you're gonna find a lot

01:22:13.180 of good content there yeah i haven't dabbled as much with lore tv brian i know i've been on there

01:22:18.020 yeah i watched a little bit dark hauler um some of them i ended up uh like skipping through a few

01:22:24.880 of the episodes and things like that. There's another one, the post-mill documentary that they

01:22:29.260 make. I love the concept of what they're aiming for though. I love the idea of building a platform

01:22:35.860 that's unapologetically Christians being Christians, but also making, like, I think it was pretty cool 0.86

01:22:41.020 that one of the first things they did was make a paranormal adjacent show, which is not what you'd 0.51

01:22:46.920 think a Christian would be doing, but understanding that actually the popularity of the paranormal

01:22:52.020 genre shows the spirit, like the innate spirituality of the world and of man. And so absolutely

01:22:57.720 Christians should go in there and say, we actually know what's happening in this world.

01:23:01.260 Yeah. And we know, like when you see old aunt Muriel's ghost, I'm sorry, it's a demon and we 0.92

01:23:07.320 can explain it to you. Like we should be the ones who are providing the substance in some of these

01:23:12.960 14 genres without being overly obsessed with demons. Yeah. So I think, honestly, I think a

01:23:20.440 lot of christianity like we're sort of in our infancy with that stuff yeah that would be you

01:23:25.540 know my estimation of it gab is another one uh huge powerful but yeah like we're kind of all

01:23:30.820 finding out like if you want to start your own banking network and your own platform andrew

01:23:35.500 doing great work but you're kind of starting from zero you're like 15 years behind facebook and so

01:23:41.260 very difficult it's a challenge yeah it's a real challenge there's a reason facebook has an army

01:23:47.000 of hundreds and possibly thousands of software engineers coding their system because people

01:23:52.600 don't understand how immensely complex it is to make something like a social media platform

01:23:58.180 that's available across the world to tens of millions of people simultaneously well even

01:24:04.260 very difficult even in salt lake of millions salt lake city uh there's a facebook building here

01:24:09.760 I knew a gal who was worked at the, whatever it is, Salt Lake Power and Light or whatever.

01:24:16.040 And she spent two years putting in an extra power grid for Facebook.

01:24:21.380 Yeah, it's just a power grid for one of their buildings.

01:24:23.600 Yes.

01:24:24.240 So when you look at what Torba and Gab is doing, opening server rooms, because they are 100% doing their thing.

01:24:30.960 Think about the scale.

01:24:32.120 Think about the scale.

01:24:33.280 Absolutely Chad King impressive what they're doing, to be honest.

01:24:36.960 when you look at the fact that for 99.9% of Christian entrepreneurs would have been done

01:24:43.080 when Amazon shut their service off. And instead they said, we're going to build our own fricking 0.78

01:24:48.240 servers. And then they did it. Like, I don't know. I think that's pretty wildly. That's pretty

01:24:54.100 impressive. That's pretty amazing. We need Christians with that kind of, like, if you're

01:24:58.160 going to go do these sorts of things, you have to understand you're going to face rampant opposition.

01:25:02.120 go look at the tomato what what is it rotten tomatoes yeah go look at the reviews the critic

01:25:07.840 reviews from movies that are made by christians that are actually really good i can't think of

01:25:11.680 one but i know they exist like movies that tell stories about natural families and things like

01:25:17.060 that and then they'll have 20 critic reviews 98 audience reviews like you have to understand

01:25:22.720 you're going to be at war with the entire industry with the gatekeepers the priests

01:25:28.060 Even think about people like Mel Gibson.

01:25:31.020 His films do really well.

01:25:32.860 Oh, yeah.

01:25:33.220 And he is absolutely hated by the establishment.

01:25:35.880 Yeah, absolutely.

01:25:37.260 Even Torba faces death threats regularly.

01:25:40.200 Yeah.

01:25:40.700 Like, can't freely go out in public all the time.

01:25:43.700 Because people are trying to kill him.

01:25:45.600 Yeah.

01:25:45.900 They hate him that bad because he's making a...

01:25:47.400 Like, when they say, go make your own social media platform if you don't like it. 0.98

01:25:50.480 Well, if you actually do it, they'll try to kill you. 0.84

01:25:52.800 Yeah. 0.99

01:25:53.280 You have to...

01:25:54.140 You kind of have to realize that.

01:25:56.020 The stakes are high.

01:25:57.000 Guys, by the way, I would totally not be surprised

01:25:58.980 if one day they kicked us off all this stuff.

01:26:01.220 Kings Hall.

01:26:02.560 I'm actually surprised that they haven't.

01:26:04.600 Right, Hearth?

01:26:04.980 We're not...

01:26:05.740 That actually brings me to the third strategy.

01:26:07.960 Uh-huh.

01:26:08.640 Because I think this is probably where we are right now.

01:26:12.320 Guys, by the way, there's only two strategies

01:26:13.960 written down in our notes.

01:26:15.340 But I'm on the third.

01:26:16.420 We're about to hear Eric going off the reservation.

01:26:19.780 Hot take.

01:26:19.880 Here we go.

01:26:21.000 Third strategy, work within the system

01:26:22.780 with tools available to get our message out.

01:26:24.940 I actually think we're sort of straddling

01:26:27.020 so you know we're on Gab

01:26:28.840 we have some good relationships

01:26:31.180 there yeah with the Gab

01:26:33.160 people we love them the Gabbers

01:26:34.640 they're amazing but I think what we've

01:26:37.140 also done is said like you know and I

01:26:39.060 know a lot of people have disagreed with this

01:26:40.760 we're on like

01:26:42.640 you know LGBT

01:26:44.320 homo supporting platforms

01:26:47.220 oh yeah yeah we use

01:26:49.100 tools that are built by pagans all over

01:26:51.140 the web I like the way you said it better

01:26:52.980 than the way that Eric said.

01:26:53.820 But we repeat ourselves.

01:26:55.240 I mean, that's what the pagans are doing.

01:26:56.800 That's their relationship.

01:26:57.660 You actually liked Brian's better.

01:26:59.440 Well, yeah, yeah.

01:27:00.040 We're on the pagans platforms

01:27:01.280 versus like it sounded like

01:27:02.480 we're directly supporting the gays. 1.00

01:27:04.980 Oh, I'm not supporting them. 1.00

01:27:06.340 It's like this.

01:27:07.420 You can't avoid,

01:27:08.940 you have to understand

01:27:09.820 that when you spend a dollar,

01:27:11.280 it is inevitable

01:27:11.920 that you're supporting sodomy somewhere.

01:27:13.600 I mean, I don't care what you're buying.

01:27:14.940 It's almost impossible

01:27:15.940 for you to remove yourself

01:27:17.220 from the chain of injustices somewhere

01:27:19.600 where the world is so tainted by sin

01:27:22.560 that whatever you buy,

01:27:25.160 even if you buy the unlocked Android phone

01:27:26.880 that you're going to put your Linux system on

01:27:28.440 and run Gab only or something like that,

01:27:30.060 which is great, good for you to go do that,

01:27:32.460 you're still going to buy software chips

01:27:33.940 that are made by pagans 0.80

01:27:34.820 that are going to support sodomy somewhere. 0.78

01:27:37.340 We don't win by attempting to remain pure

01:27:41.560 and in this completely separated state. 1.00

01:27:46.020 Like an Anabaptist is what you're saying?

01:27:47.540 We do not win by Anabaptism.

01:27:49.120 I think it's being cognizant of that fact

01:27:50.680 that in the marketplace

01:27:53.040 there's going to be meat sacrificed to idols.

01:27:54.820 Eat anything in the meat market without questions of

01:27:56.900 conscience, Paul said. I went through this whole shtick

01:27:58.740 where I was like, no, I reject Apple.

01:28:01.140 I'm only using Samsung.

01:28:02.520 And then my dad, who was a Samsung

01:28:04.780 user, he was like,

01:28:06.700 have you read the history of Samsung? You do know that

01:28:08.640 they're just communists too.

01:28:10.700 It's not better.

01:28:13.440 Yeah, and I know

01:28:14.800 people will disagree on some of those

01:28:16.760 things, and we have as well with other people.

01:28:19.260 But I think fundamentally,

01:28:20.040 the whole point of this show

01:28:22.180 if we could distill it down to one thing

01:28:24.240 is look Christians need to be thinking

01:28:26.200 about leveraging 0.95

01:28:27.200 sometimes it's going to be for guerrilla tactics

01:28:29.960 sometimes it's going to be all that warfare

01:28:31.480 we need to be thinking about how we use media

01:28:33.920 I think that there's a lot of people

01:28:36.340 that need to be making the long slow march

01:28:38.340 through the institutions 1.00

01:28:39.240 we've got Christians in the FBI 0.70

01:28:42.600 we've got Christians in the New York Times

01:28:44.700 and we do need them there 1.00

01:28:46.980 and we need parallel

01:28:49.300 outlets too. We want to be strategic. Yes. We want to be strategic. We want to operate as if

01:28:55.460 they should be scared of us, not the other way around. Too often Christians operate as if we 1.00

01:28:59.940 should be so scared of them. Well, this is what Chuck Knox said, right? The gospel is the contagion. 1.00

01:29:04.420 Yeah. Like we're going to get the cooties on us. No, no, no, no, no, no. They're going to get our

01:29:08.420 cooties on them. I mean, let me come up with something better. They're going to get the

01:29:12.080 contagion of the gospel is going to infect, and it is going to spread like leavened till it's all

01:29:17.360 leavened. That's what Jesus says the gospel of the kingdom is like, or the kingdom of God is like.

01:29:22.360 So be crafty as serpents and innocent as doves. So Paul wrote, greet those in Caesar's household.

01:29:29.620 Think about that. Caesar's household. Think about John the Baptist giving advice to the

01:29:34.600 tax collectors and the soldiers. Nero. By the way, Dan, you're doing church history. Who was 0.89

01:29:39.580 Caesar at that time? It was Nero. It was Nero. So when Paul was writing that in the household of

01:29:44.240 Caesar. There were Christians in Nero's house. In the beast of Revelation's house. Which is why 0.74

01:29:48.080 I have no qualms about Christians going and teaching in public schools subversively as long 1.00

01:29:52.920 as their kids aren't in them. It's a different ballgame. Different ballgame. Like, which is why 1.00

01:29:57.800 for us, strategically, we're going to pick certain things, you know, to the, especially as it's local

01:30:03.160 to me and I have opportunity, I'm going to bless Christians doing Christian things, even if it

01:30:06.880 costs me a little bit more, et cetera, when they're doing a good job, I'm going to say, yeah.

01:30:09.280 and i'm also without shame going to use an apple phone or computer or whatnot and i'm not going to

01:30:15.520 be scared of that because i'm going to use those tools i'm going to take that tool and i'm going

01:30:20.760 to use it to publish to the world the most app the content they are absolutely terrified of

01:30:25.560 so terrified of that they try to cancel it everywhere they get every gatekeeper's intent

01:30:30.560 on keeping us out and we're like we're there baby it's like buying a sword from the enemy

01:30:36.180 and then and then stabbing it you know hype you know censors we're actually not promoting violence

01:30:41.380 spiritually of course yeah the sword that comes from his mouth metaphorically speaking

01:30:45.340 yeah absolutely so so i think summing it up christian arts and media is a meet our mediums

01:30:51.020 by which we tell the truth yeah we tell the truth about what the world is like where it's gone wrong

01:30:56.040 and what the only thing that will change it and and wherein we aim to win the whole person

01:31:01.080 understanding who they are, how God created them, and also the means by which God has appointed for

01:31:08.880 people to be influenced, which is more than the mere transfer of information. It's also the

01:31:13.100 capturing of people's hearts through beauty and also through properly showing ugliness. 1.00

01:31:18.360 And so Christians ought to be in the business of excellently invading and creating media to 1.00

01:31:24.600 the glory of God, not just in these Christian ghettos, but in every aspect of what it means 0.99

01:31:29.360 to be human. I think that's a

01:31:31.280 phenomenal place to end. In the words of

01:31:33.220 Brian Sauvé, that was glorious.

01:31:35.680 Ooh, I like it. You know what, Eric?

01:31:36.940 In the words of Eric, not a Jew. 0.99

01:31:39.620 Oh, here we go. That's huge. 1.00

01:31:41.540 That's huge, Eric. Not a Jew. 1.00

01:31:43.180 And I would also say, we'd like to give a special 1.00

01:31:45.240 shout-out to our sponsors, Christendom

01:31:47.440 Bible College and

01:31:49.200 Reformation Heritage Books. We appreciate them.

01:31:51.660 A lot of sales running on Reformation Heritage Books.

01:31:53.440 Right now, they had a sale on the Puritans.

01:31:55.480 So definitely check that out, heritagebooks.org.

01:31:58.080 check that in the show notes

01:31:59.820 and be sure to support them

01:32:01.840 they're supporting us

01:32:02.500 and we really appreciate

01:32:03.460 that

01:32:04.580 until next time

01:32:05.520 gentlemen

01:32:06.040 Festa Nolente

01:32:07.320 make haste

01:32:09.000 slowly

01:32:09.520 Amen

01:32:10.340 Well in case you didn't know

01:32:22.540 we have another Kings Hall show

01:32:23.880 called The After Hours

01:32:25.000 and it's available

01:32:25.840 only to our patrons

01:32:27.560 We have a great time in the after hours.

01:32:29.400 I play hype songs, which Brian loves.

01:32:31.420 Sometimes we even talk about Brian's cut.

01:32:33.120 We talk about recent news on X and answer listener questions.

01:32:36.300 Overall, it's a great time.

01:32:37.580 So I'd encourage you to head over to patreon.com slash the King's Hall.

01:32:42.440 If you'd like to support the show and get some extra content.

The King's Hall - August 19, 2022

Art, Media, & the New Christendom

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