The King's Hall - Breaking the Dark Spell of Feminism

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, Brian here with a big announcement from New Christendom Press.

00:00:03.860 Possibly our most important book yet is now available for pre-order.

00:00:08.300 It's called The Longhouse, How Feminism Conquered the West and Made Us All Miserable.

00:00:13.400 And in it, Eric and I take you through the dark history of feminism,

00:00:17.240 what it's done to everything from politics to church life to the economy,

00:00:21.220 and what to do about it.

00:00:23.040 Pre-order it today at newchristendompress.com slash longhouse.

00:00:26.600 And as a thank you for pre-ordering, you'll get 10% off automatically.

00:00:31.000 We'll also be signing the first thousand copies, so pick yours up today.

00:00:35.600 This episode is brought to you by Backwards Planning Financial, helping Christians build financial legacy. 0.78

00:00:56.600 puddle glum knew it would hurt him badly enough and so it did with his bare foot he stamped on 0.56

00:01:08.000 the fire grinding a large part of it into ashes on the flat hearth this instantly made everyone's

00:01:14.520 far clearer the prince and the children held up their heads and opened their eyes c.s lewis the

00:01:21.260 silver chair. As any reader of the silver chair will remember, the story we just referenced ends

00:01:27.880 with a memorable scene. Eustace and Jill return from Narnia to their bleak English boarding school,

00:01:33.500 aptly named Experiment House, still dressed in Narnian clothes and carrying Narnian weapons.

00:01:39.500 Accompanied by Aslan and a glorified Prince Caspian, they move through the woods behind

00:01:44.280 a school in search of one final task. Their adventures had begun when they fled a gang of 0.70

00:01:49.880 bullies through a magical door into Narnia. The school, run by a woman Lewis pointedly calls

00:01:55.180 the head, had failed to discipline the bullies. Instead, they were viewed more as interesting

00:02:01.080 psychological cases. Instead of being corrected, they were only ever interviewed. Experiment house

00:02:07.160 would have nothing to do with such regressive ideas as punishment and discipline. As the children

00:02:12.480 approached the school grounds, Aslan gave his final command. Now sons of Adam, draw your swords,

00:02:18.620 but use only the flat, for it is cowards and children, not warriors against whom I send you.

00:02:24.700 At Aslan's roar, the walls surrounding the school split apart. Caspian and Eustace rushed in,

00:02:30.600 striking the bullies with the flats of their blades. Lewis continues, in two minutes, all the

00:02:36.000 bullies were running like mad, crying out, murder, fascists, lions, it isn't fair. And then the head, 0.88

00:02:43.140 who was, by the way, of course, a woman, came running out to see what was happening. And when

00:02:48.240 she saw the lion and the broken wall and Caspian and Jill and Eustace, whom she quite failed to

00:02:53.740 recognize, she had hysterics and went back to the house and began ringing up the police with stories

00:02:59.340 about a lion escaped from a circus and escaped convicts who broke down walls and carried drawn

00:03:04.960 swords. In the midst of all this fuss, Jill and Eustace slipped quietly indoors and changed out

00:03:10.860 of their bright clothes into ordinary things, and Caspian went back into his own world. And the wall 1.00

00:03:16.680 at Aslan's word was made whole again when the police arrived and found no lion no broken wall

00:03:22.740 and no convicts and the head behaving like a lunatic there was an inquiry into the whole thing

00:03:28.680 and in the inquiry all sorts of things came out about experiment house and about 10 people got

00:03:34.400 expelled after that the head's friends saw the head was no use as a head so they got her made

00:03:40.360 an inspector to interfere with other heads and when they found she wasn't much good even at that

00:03:45.460 They got her into Parliament, where she lived happily ever after.

00:03:50.140 Now, don't let the children's book setting fool you.

00:03:53.400 Lewis is doing something profound here.

00:03:56.200 Throughout his fiction, he exposed what he believed to be the spiritual and cultural defects of modernity.

00:04:02.840 The silver chair is no different.

00:04:04.600 In the scene above, he presents a sharp critique of progressive education,

00:04:10.140 bureaucratic incompetence, and the collapse of discipline.

00:04:13.900 Experiment House is a place where therapeutic psychologizing replaces order, authority, and punishment.

00:04:20.260 The result is meanness, conceit, cruelty, and sneakishness.

00:04:25.200 A world where cowards accuse their opponents of fascism while crying that life isn't fair.

00:04:31.860 This passage also reflects a broader argument Lewis hints at elsewhere.

00:04:36.060 When societies reject natural hierarchy and distinction, disorder follows.

00:04:41.240 The biblical writers often framed this social collapse in similar terms, like the prophet Isaiah, when he lamented,

00:04:48.760 quote, my people, infants are their oppressors, and women rule over them, end quote.

00:04:54.760 And that's from Isaiah chapter 3, verse 12.

00:04:58.600 Divines of earlier centuries drew hard conclusions from texts like these and others.

00:05:04.480 John Knox opened the first blast of the trumpet against the monstrous regiment of women with the declaration, 0.97

00:05:11.300 quote, to promote a woman to bear rule, superiority, dominion, or empire above any realm, nation, or city is repugnant to nature, 0.97

00:05:22.180 contumelious to God, a thing most contrarious to his revealed will and approved ordinance. 0.53

00:05:28.020 And finally, it is the subversion of good order, of all equity and justice, end quote.

00:05:34.300 Now, Lewis's satire lands precisely because the head is incapable of maintaining order. 1.00

00:05:40.400 Rather than recognizing her failure, the bureaucracy does what feminist coded bureaucracies always do. 1.00

00:05:46.680 It promotes her upward. 1.00

00:05:48.320 Experiment House becomes a symbol of institutional decay, a system where incompetence is rewarded,

00:05:54.700 sentimentality replaces justice and ideology just overrides reality the argument we're proposing in

00:06:02.320 this episode is that modern western culture increasingly resembles lewis's experiment house

00:06:08.600 education politics media and even churches have embraced egalitarian assumptions that flatten

00:06:15.920 distinctions between men and women authority and submission discipline and indulgence the result

00:06:21.920 has not been harmony, but rather confusion. This is the Longhouse, a euphemism for the

00:06:29.240 Gynocracy borrowed from the matriarchal houses of Native American Indian culture, a terrible 1.00

00:06:34.920 culture that anybody who's descended from should be ashamed of, by the way. I'm just kidding, 1.00

00:06:39.000 that's just me. Scripture presents a different vision. Man was not made for woman, but woman

00:06:45.400 for man, 1 Corinthians 11, 7-10. Woman was created as helper, not ruler, Genesis 2, 18.

00:06:53.540 Husbands are the head of their wives, while wives are commanded to submit to their husbands, 0.93

00:06:58.680 see Ephesians 5, 22-30. The church reserves governing and teaching authority to only 0.94

00:07:05.020 qualified men, that's 1 Timothy 2, 12, 1 Timothy 3, 1-7, and other passages as well. And Isaiah

00:07:11.720 presents the rule of women as a sign of judgment, not a blessing. Whether one agrees with these 0.94

00:07:18.280 conclusions or not, the biblical pattern is unmistakable. The teaching is clear. The public

00:07:23.780 life of Israel and the church was overwhelmingly male. Kings, judges, priests, apostles, elders,

00:07:31.060 generals, and civic rulers were ordinarily men. Now, in a book that Eric and I have been working

00:07:36.940 on for more than a year at this point, and really a decade of work has gone into the ideas behind

00:07:42.200 the book, we argue that modern civilization rejected this order and has suffered the

00:07:48.620 consequences. Lewis develops the same themes throughout the Silverchair in fiction form.

00:07:53.900 The story centers on Prince Rillian, who's been enchanted and imprisoned underground by a witch,

00:07:59.560 the Queen of the Underland, through dark enchantments and subtle feminine manipulation.

00:08:05.340 She clouds the mind and severs the people from reality.

00:08:09.480 When Jill, Eustace, and Puddleglum arrive to rescue Prince Rillian, 0.53

00:08:14.200 the witch fights not with swords, but with soft words, 0.76

00:08:18.820 with saccharine deceit, with a dark spell of feminine prowess. 0.67

00:08:23.740 Throwing magical powder into the fire,

00:08:25.380 she attempts to convince them that the world above,

00:08:28.380 the sun, the wind, the trees, even Narnia itself,

00:08:31.280 is just a figment of their imaginations.

00:08:33.520 The spell begins to take hold until Puddleglum performs one of the bravest actions in all of Lewis's fiction.

00:08:40.660 He thrusts his foot into the fire, extinguishing the witch's enchantment with the excruciating shock of his own burning flesh.

00:08:49.160 Lewis writes, quote, this instantly made everyone's brain far clearer.

00:08:53.100 The prince and the children held up their heads again and opened their eyes, end quote.

00:08:57.640 the spell breaks reality returns and ultimately the prince is restored that scene functions as

00:09:05.080 a metaphor for the modern west itself feminism egalitarianism and therapeutic culture have cast

00:09:11.840 a spell over society blurring distinctions that god built into creation itself at the ground level

00:09:17.760 men and women are treated as interchangeable human units authority is regarded as oppression

00:09:25.060 Masculinity is increasingly viewed with suspicion.

00:09:28.780 Institutions increasingly reward passivity,

00:09:31.920 emotionalism, and bureaucratic conformity

00:09:34.340 while actively punishing courage, hierarchy, and conviction.

00:09:38.860 The result has not been liberation,

00:09:40.740 but rather widespread societal chaos and confusion.

00:09:45.720 Families fracture.

00:09:47.280 Churches soften into sentimentality.

00:09:51.280 Schools become ideological laboratories

00:09:53.540 where students are experimented upon.

00:09:56.220 Men drift into passivity, 0.58

00:09:57.940 while women are pushed into roles

00:10:00.100 that often leave them exhausted and dissatisfied. 0.99

00:10:04.060 Modern society celebrates the career woman 1.00

00:10:06.760 while simultaneously producing record levels

00:10:09.720 of anxiety, loneliness, mental illness,

00:10:13.720 social fragmentation,

00:10:15.280 and all sorts of other poisonous fruits.

00:10:18.360 Now, in that forthcoming book on the longhouse,

00:10:20.480 we argue that these developments

00:10:22.820 were not accidental. The sexual revolution, modern feminism, Freudian psychology, bureaucratic

00:10:29.540 expansion, and egalitarian politics collectively reshaped the West during the 20th century.

00:10:36.580 The revolutionary spirit of the 1960s accelerated the process dramatically. Divorce laws were

00:10:43.060 changed. Women flooded the workforce. Birth control severed sex from family life and 1.00

00:10:48.720 procreation. Educational institutions embraced progressive ideology. HR departments and

00:10:54.940 managerial bureaucracies transformed workplaces into increasingly feminized environments. 0.64

00:11:02.240 Churches capitulated to all of this cultural pressure instead of resisting it, and the result

00:11:07.440 is what some critics have called the longhouse. This therapeutic, female-coded social order 0.80

00:11:13.340 governed less by honor, strength, and hierarchy than by emotional management, social consensus, 0.99

00:11:20.360 and bureaucratic control. Under conditions like this, disagreement becomes harm, boldness and

00:11:27.740 courage becomes toxicity, and masculine aggression is treated as a pathology. Now, in the book, we

00:11:35.640 trace the roots of these developments through feminism, the French Revolution, Marxism,

00:11:41.020 sexual ideology, secularism, and a whole lot more. And yes, the Jews do come up.

00:11:47.380 We examine how these ideas reshaped education, economics, churches, and family life. We argue 0.99

00:11:53.720 that the collapse of strong male leadership has contributed directly to social decay and even

00:11:59.060 civilizational weakness. But the book, it's not merely just a work of criticism. We don't need

00:12:05.440 just criticism, do we? It's also a call to both tear down and to rebuild in the real world.

00:12:13.820 Like Puddleglum stamping out the witch's spell, Christians need to recover the courage to face 0.89

00:12:19.060 painful truths about the modern world, yes. Men have to recover responsibility, leadership, 0.97

00:12:25.020 friendship, and mission. Families need to rebuild ordered homes from the chaos that so often seizes

00:12:32.000 them. Churches have to recover conviction, discipline, and masculine leadership. Christians

00:12:38.860 must also form durable communities capable of resisting the ideological pressures of the age.

00:12:44.760 Along the way, we'll discuss the importance of owned space, strong local communities,

00:12:48.880 parallel institutions, Christian economies, faithful churches, and networks of courageous

00:12:53.400 families. We'll argue that Christians can't merely criticize the modern order, but they actually have

00:12:59.260 to build alternatives in the real world. The goal is not despair, the goal is renewal. Situation is

00:13:06.900 serious, but decline is not inevitable. It doesn't have to be inevitable. Civilizations can recover

00:13:12.460 when people regain clarity about reality itself, about God, about nature, about men and women and

00:13:19.820 family and authority and truth. The modern world has spent decades, maybe even centuries, dissolving

00:13:25.880 these distinctions and seeking to destroy and suppress them. Our book seeks to recover them.

00:13:32.900 Lewis understood that enchantments aren't merely broken by rational argumentation. They actually

00:13:38.840 need courage to do that. Painful truth, not just believed, but acted upon is the thing that will

00:13:46.440 clear the mind. And that's the task before us now. So join us in this episode of the King's Hall,

00:13:51.020 where we'll be discussing the origins of the book, why we wrote it, what to expect in its pages,

00:13:56.520 and what we plan to do in discussing the topic of the longhouse over the next few episodes here

00:14:01.480 on the King's Hall. The King's Hall podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well

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00:15:59.920 annual membership. Well, welcome to this episode of the King's Hall podcast. I'm one of your hosts,

00:16:04.960 Eric Kahn, joined by the other hosts. Some call him the songbird of his generation,

00:16:10.300 brian sove nobody calls me that other than you so some do some people technically some do

00:16:17.840 it's good to be here eric i am ready to tear down the cultural institutions that are named after

00:16:25.620 bad ideas that my ancestors practiced the indians

00:16:32.200 a hood of buffalo approach

00:16:37.160 just in case there's any haunted cosmos listeners here that was for you

00:16:42.340 yeah yeah so were you listening on the table yeah i was listening to

00:16:46.940 ben the mom approach from a distance she is in georgia

00:16:54.460 but you can hear her from here she's in georgia you can hear it from here you can hear a long

00:17:00.460 ways away well my people are well one 16th of me is very attuned to these things i go in the woods

00:17:06.880 one 16th of me blends right in but they're not attuned to the use of alcohol no no no no no no

00:17:13.640 you give them a drop you give one 16th of me a drop of alcohol and i start trading an entire

00:17:20.100 continent for colorful beads okay like i will trade so much land for so few colored beads that

00:17:28.320 You would not even imagine, but just one sixteenth of me.

00:17:31.460 You know, it's funny.

00:17:32.400 We're talking about the longhouse, but it actually comes from the Iroquois.

00:17:35.880 Yeah, I mean, because they would build longhouses. 0.97

00:17:38.560 Yeah, I'm sure we'll get into their matriarchs. 1.00

00:17:40.680 They were allegedly matriarchal. 1.00

00:17:42.400 I don't know. 0.96

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00:18:22.760 Yeah, it is funny because, you know, again, we can talk more about this in future episodes too.

00:18:27.220 But a lot of the data, like, you know, Margaret Mead's book on Samoa, like all of it is so funny because now even even secular atheists are like, yeah, they made that up.

00:18:38.800 They just made that up.

00:18:39.760 That's not true.

00:18:40.580 So as we're writing this book, like you look in the research and you find out that a bunch of the studies that were like, oh, all the housewives were totally miserable were excited. 0.99

00:18:52.080 A woman of certain descent. 0.98

00:18:54.500 she was jewish made it up and a marxist est yes indeed uh so brian as we get into this subject

00:19:04.800 um it's kind of interesting thinking through the longhouse how did we get here why why are we

00:19:09.160 writing a book about it um it's one of those things that years ago i i had seen people reference

00:19:15.480 longhouse um and certainly feminism but as we delved into the book i thought this is like way

00:19:22.380 bigger and deeper and dare I say, worse. Yeah. It's you dare. It's like really bad. So why are

00:19:30.640 two pastors in Ogden, Utah writing a book about a feminist coded society? Yeah. Like what, what 1.00

00:19:37.900 kind of, kind of out the box a little bit. The reason is really twofold for me. And I'm sure

00:19:43.300 you can expand on this and add your own reasons as well. But the first direction is public and

00:19:49.500 cultural and the nation and the people and civilization and the other one is just personal

00:19:54.660 and private in our own history and experience interacting with those things have they as

00:19:59.760 they've been reified in our own lives so it's like you look out at culture and it is absolutely

00:20:05.420 insane how deeply you find that the rot of egalitarianism has gone and in how many directions

00:20:13.780 feminism really just being one part of egalitarianism but it's certainly a big part

00:20:17.800 how much of the degradation decline chaos of our culture just in a very straightforward straight

00:20:25.180 line way connects to the successful indoctrination and enculturation of the west in the ideals of 0.98

00:20:32.980 feminism the ideals of gynocracy in the longhouse and rule by women and society dominated by women 0.88

00:20:39.160 and not just women as women but the norms of women the instincts of women the worst tendencies of 0.68

00:20:47.320 women, which is an inversion, as we said in the cold open, of God's design. So obviously this is 0.81

00:20:53.100 a civilizational issue, but then secondly, it's a civilizational issue and we live in that

00:20:58.360 civilization. And so when you set out to work as a man and say, well, we're going to build a church,

00:21:04.700 we're going to build institutions here in Ogden, we're going to build a school, we're going to do

00:21:07.320 all these things. Over the last more than a decade of experience here, we have had to deal with the

00:21:15.200 long house at every turn yeah the norms of the long house in men and women and then also um like

00:21:24.780 rooting out through pain and suffering and sticking your foot like puddle glum in the fire over and

00:21:32.620 over and over and over again uh in the church and all these institutions here to get to just say we

00:21:39.120 are not going to make peace with the long house we will not be long housed we're going to root it

00:21:44.440 out here, it has led to a lot of difficulty, but also nearly everything that works about 1.00

00:21:52.340 this Christian borough in Ogden works because we just refuse to be longhouse. And so I thought, 0.69

00:21:59.940 yeah, look, it's every, this is relevant for literally everybody in terms of a topic. And

00:22:05.780 there's lots of historical roots and philosophical roots of this movement and where it's kind of come

00:22:10.400 from but we also have experience in it not just theoretically like yeah not just seeing it too

00:22:16.760 and talking about it but actually dealing with it in our world and our institutions i think

00:22:24.060 successfully yeah it's a constant thing there's always maintenance to be done uh and more layers

00:22:29.500 to unravel but that to me made it an urgent enough matter to say we should put this at the front line

00:22:38.800 Yeah. For a new Christian Impressed book that we write in-house.

00:22:43.300 Yeah. I think about a year ago, it was Joel's conference, Joel Webben. He had asked me to

00:22:49.380 talk on the Longhouse. And of course I had known the term and we had talked a lot about feminism

00:22:54.900 on social media. And as you said, really actually dealing with it in real life, most of all.

00:23:01.100 And I think just like going through all that and then having to prepare the talk,

00:23:06.560 I thought, wow, this is really intriguing, actually.

00:23:10.360 So for me, part of it was like the journalist kicked in.

00:23:13.080 That's my background and training.

00:23:15.160 And so I came across Hannah Rosen's book.

00:23:18.660 Well, first an article.

00:23:19.980 She wrote an article called The End of Men, and then she turned it into a book.

00:23:24.280 And so I thought, I'll read this book, see what it's all about.

00:23:28.600 And of course, she's an immigrant from Israel to New York, senior editor at The Atlantic.

00:23:36.080 you know, make it that way you will.

00:23:39.300 But she was actually celebrating how our economy 1.00

00:23:42.900 and how the world has been changed by feminism, 0.97

00:23:45.320 while at the same time also, like, it's weird.

00:23:49.860 Like, even the people celebrating it going,

00:23:51.640 there's a lot of problems here.

00:23:53.320 There's discomfort.

00:23:54.240 Like, this is actually kind of, like, destroying society.

00:23:56.680 And, like, we wanted that, but did we?

00:23:59.140 Like, we're making great strides, but also kind of awkward.

00:24:02.720 It is ruining a lot of stuff, but it's all good.

00:24:05.480 Like we're going to have to adapt to it.

00:24:07.020 Like we can't go back and like,

00:24:09.180 just say we were mistaken that we can never do that. 0.77

00:24:11.760 Instead we have to like men have to adapt to the long house and become

00:24:16.380 fundamentally different. 0.74

00:24:17.720 Yeah.

00:24:17.880 And I think also just through that process realizing like how much it

00:24:21.000 touched.

00:24:21.900 So this is sort of something where,

00:24:23.840 you know,

00:24:24.480 some people will talk about it in the red pill space,

00:24:27.000 red pill manosphere.

00:24:28.340 And they're really talking about sexual relationships,

00:24:30.800 men and women.

00:24:31.420 Yeah.

00:24:31.920 And maybe some divorce law type type stuff.

00:24:34.540 uh but this with the book was really looking more no it actually affects the economy yeah

00:24:39.680 uh as you mentioned the church so all these spheres that are touched and then and then as

00:24:44.880 you're doing the research um and then seeing like c.s lewis i just happened to be reading

00:24:49.920 the silver chair and i was like wait a minute why did he capitalize the word head yeah it was like

00:24:55.420 he was drawing your attention to it yep and i think people in the past saw this um but maybe

00:25:01.320 not as explicitly spelled out i'm sure a lot of people have read the silver chair and never really

00:25:06.520 thought about that quite in the same way yeah but i think an apt metaphor the other thing that i

00:25:11.600 think is interesting is you you kind of unfold the layers of the onion and then you start to see that

00:25:17.360 like wokeness critical race theory feminism egalitarianism the jewish revolutionary spirit

00:25:23.540 marxism you name it bolshevism they're kind of stemming back to this one root um i guess you

00:25:30.900 could say enlightenment but also like french revolution time period um to the point today

00:25:36.660 where like i we cite this in the book but like the majority even of christians are like yeah i

00:25:41.580 think feminism was mostly good yeah one of the big reasons for the book is that if you talk to

00:25:47.980 christians if you talk to christians today and you ask them and i'm even talking like not just

00:25:52.620 not method not methodists and episcopalians you know christians i'm talking about people who

00:25:58.240 would call themselves conservatives i'm talking about complementarians and he said patriarch like

00:26:02.320 i'm patriarchal yeah and you say what do you think about feminism and they'll launch into

00:26:06.260 this thing often that where they follow the same script well we're out of our minds today 1.00

00:26:12.200 obviously feminism is bad third wave feminism even fourth wave as some people identify the 0.99

00:26:17.320 social media period as like a new fourth wave of feminism that's still unfolding with the trans

00:26:22.340 movement and stuff like that so it's like 2010 and yeah like 10 and after yeah um and then third

00:26:26.660 wave like 90s through 2010 kind of era so they'll say that's all bad obviously you know and second

00:26:32.940 wave feminism there's a lot that was bad there sexual revolution 60s 60s were bad you know what 0.81

00:26:39.600 though first wave feminism suffragettes like they just wanted to vote man they wanted to get rid of 1.00

00:26:46.360 all the drunk husbands with with the temperance movement which by the way find out it's the exact 0.99

00:26:50.540 same movement fundamentally same people they were all that was fine first wave feminism this is the

00:26:57.920 line was addressing some very real societal concerns and you know they did it with some good

00:27:03.900 you know we made real progress with first wave feminism and then it was hijacked 0.96

00:27:08.920 by all these crazy women and crazy men so i'm fine with first wave let's keep the vote let's

00:27:16.780 keep all of that and our argument is is fun like first of all seeing that seeing people say that 0.95

00:27:24.500 hearing people say that again and again and again from all these allegedly conservative circles

00:27:28.760 yeah shows me two things one they are wildly ignorant of the actual history yeah at the

00:27:38.540 roots of this movement and first wave included and the proto movements that led to first wave

00:27:43.580 feminism. And two, they have failed to reckon with the all the way down to the bedrock of God's

00:27:51.320 act of authority expressed in creation when he created the man and the woman and gave them their

00:27:57.400 natures and duties. They failed to reckon with the implications of that authority of God in the

00:28:02.340 act of creation with how the world should be ordered. Because what they're saying is actually,

00:28:07.020 we should subvert that act of God's authority in creation.

00:28:12.760 And the more you look at it, the more inescapable this becomes.

00:28:17.340 Yeah.

00:28:17.520 Like the less unclear.

00:28:19.240 One thing that we tried to do with this book and why I'm so glad, you know,

00:28:23.000 Eric just dove headfirst into the research for this book.

00:28:26.900 And, and, you know, every time you'd look at him,

00:28:28.780 he'd have 18 stacks of the worst people that you'd ever, like,

00:28:32.340 you'd never want to,

00:28:33.460 you have to put like a clothespin on your nose and like rubber gloves and,

00:28:36.760 hazmat suit and you open the books. He's neck deep in this research and Eric is a journalist

00:28:41.900 by trade. So the goal of the book isn't just to write another like, okay, here's some pastors

00:28:48.300 with an ideology that they're imposing upon the world and there's no footnoting and there's no

00:28:52.100 showing of work. And it's just, trust me, this is all true because it's bad and we think it's bad

00:28:56.680 and we're just going to rant about it for 50,000 words. It's not that. It is a very heavily

00:29:02.500 footnoted uh journalistic style yes there's a lot of ideology there there's a lot of us

00:29:09.060 king's hall flavor definitely comes through i'm not you know i'm not saying that we can't we

00:29:14.640 held back we didn't pull any punches no we didn't pull any punches on that front but it's built on

00:29:20.080 a bedrock of no you need to understand how satan did this to western christian civilization because

00:29:31.080 satan did it in league with fallen man and it is bad root and bow it is not a tree that was good

00:29:39.740 that became diseased later with a foreign illness or disease or some fungus yeah the root was bad

00:29:46.500 well it's interesting to me too i just happen to be reading through first timothy uh as part of

00:29:52.320 like normal bible reading not for this project um but it's interesting what paul says because

00:29:57.800 i'm anticipating one argument will be this isn't an issue that's central to the gospel

00:30:02.900 okay like you could hear people saying that oh yeah yeah and like why take your time to deal

00:30:08.160 with it well paul did and he presents this picture of what is good order in the household of god

00:30:14.180 look like meaning how did the father want his household the church ordered in that whole

00:30:19.620 section proceeding before he says that is about sex piety women keeping quiet men leading their 0.80

00:30:26.520 households, keeping their children in submission to authority. So God's world is hierarchical.

00:30:33.980 He obviously cares a lot about sexual distinction. And so I look at that and I say, well, that's why

00:30:39.600 we care about this. Because actually when you subvert sexual order, it's not an insignificant

00:30:44.540 thing. No, no. And people make this huge mistake. They do it doctrinally. It's constantly showing

00:30:49.860 its face in the Christian nationalism discussion, politics. People bifurcate and hermetically seal 0.99

00:30:57.440 off from one another God's act of authority expressed in special revelation and in creation. 0.86

00:31:03.700 Yes. So this is what biblicism fundamentally is. It is, at its worst, it's acting like God 0.64

00:31:11.320 speaks in scripture and he doesn't speak in nature. But that's not the case if scripture

00:31:16.800 is true and it is and authoritative and inerrant. God also spoke authoritatively and inerrantly

00:31:24.860 in creation. He didn't err when he made creation. It's inerrant. Now, at the same time, we err in

00:31:32.780 our interpretation of nature. So we introduce error there and nature has fallen. So you have

00:31:38.960 to sort through what aspects of like, it's natural, you might argue for men to murder one another,

00:31:45.140 because we've been at it since the beginning of recorded history, like shortly thereafter.

00:31:49.480 Well, no, that's a result of the fall.

00:31:51.120 We have to do some doctrinal spade work to sort through.

00:31:55.000 But the problem with this bifurcation and denial of God's active authority in nature

00:32:00.920 is that you start to do things like, in order to demonstrate anything as a healthy practice

00:32:06.860 or an unhealthy practice or even a wildly chaotic and wicked practice from a righteous practice,

00:32:12.000 we have to be able to proof text it all the way to the bottom.

00:32:14.500 So unless you have, for example, like a verse that says, thou shalt not give women the vote in a republic.

00:32:22.120 Well, you're not going to find a verse like that.

00:32:24.700 But what you will find are very clear principles in scripture.

00:32:30.240 Isaiah 312 being a key text, other key texts throughout scripture.

00:32:33.260 And then the positive example of scripture of all these men everywhere in leadership over and over normatively.

00:32:37.440 Well, then if you compare that to God's act of creation in nature, and you find that everything God commanded in his scriptures, they accord with his work of authority in nature and creation.

00:32:54.780 And so the woman is suited to her tasks.

00:32:58.580 She is suited to her duties.

00:33:00.280 The man is suited to his tasks.

00:33:02.520 He suited them.

00:33:03.260 And when you invert them, you're not just, you know, fiddling with things, you're not optimizing, you are actually inverting, subverting, and therefore you're destroying. 0.95

00:33:15.780 yeah it's interesting too you even go back to some of maybe like the proto-feminists

00:33:20.800 like mary walson craft percy shelley mary shelley um and then sort of similar with elizabeth katie

00:33:28.340 stanton yeah that they actually like they would take milton's paradise lost and they would say

00:33:34.220 actually the real hero in that story is satan and that he is leading the woman in a revolution

00:33:40.700 against the order of creation so even the people who are like you know again many popular christian

00:33:46.460 teachers have said oh first wave feminism it was all good actually no they were they were claiming

00:33:50.960 to be on satan's side can i just talk to the listener uh real quickly here just one-on-one

00:33:55.540 here you know just just tune in for a second i have a this is a really profound um little

00:34:01.000 heuristic for you anytime you look at a movement and the the one of the fundamental principles of

00:34:08.120 that movement is satan was right hear me out i know this is i don't want to lose you that's a bad

00:34:17.360 movement anything else they say you should already be out of the room like you should already be gone

00:34:22.780 completely at that point if if anybody says like hey i've got this great idea new philosophy new

00:34:27.700 social theory whatever we think satan was on to something you should probably at that point say

00:34:34.580 you know what maybe we should rethink first wave feminism yeah and then if they fought they you 0.94

00:34:39.760 know little spoiler here hint uh where we're going it plot twist if they then start claiming

00:34:45.020 to talk to dead people and spirits in the same movement you should probably be like ah

00:34:51.880 another hint that i shouldn't listen to these people you know yeah and i think this is part

00:34:57.960 of it too um we'll talk about this in one of the later episodes but the jewish revolutionary spirit

00:35:03.220 But E. Michael Jones points out that in rejecting Christ, the Jews of that day chose a terrorist, a revolutionary terrorist in Barabbas.

00:35:13.560 And so from that time forward, this is sort of like what their movement, Talmudic Judaism, embodies. 0.72

00:35:20.660 It's characterized by it.

00:35:21.460 But something else I was thinking about that I haven't heard anybody talk about, but I'll float into anything.

00:35:25.820 yeah the other thing that the jews were masters of during like if you just read the gospels 0.93

00:35:31.140 was propagandizing and trying to rewrite the history of what happened so you have them going 0.93

00:35:36.960 around and saying no no he wasn't really raised they're paying off the guards those body so what

00:35:42.060 you have to understand this is how propaganda works right and and the problem is we we're like

00:35:47.740 fish and water we've been so propagandized by the feminist marxist egalitarian like but i repeat

00:35:54.020 myself yeah stuff yeah that today and and i will speak to this to to the listener i understand a

00:36:02.200 lot of people will listen to this and maybe they read the book and they will say that's just so

00:36:07.540 shocking yeah it's such a counter uh just a counter like that's not the way i've been thinking

00:36:14.380 about the world and so it it unsettles you and quite frankly it should yeah because you know

00:36:21.240 there was a day where like, if you would have said to me, like your wife's going to go to work

00:36:24.980 and not be at home, I would have been like, well, I mean, I prefer at home, but I don't know that I

00:36:30.160 have a good principle, you know, and then you start researching this, this is like 15 years ago.

00:36:35.900 And you say actually biblically church history, as you mentioned, arguments from nature, 0.99

00:36:42.600 a woman's body itself is crying out. She's got a womb, first of all, to make human life.

00:36:50.180 can we wrap our minds around how crazy that is wild it's wild she has brass to nurse that infant 1.00

00:36:58.220 and then and then she has this whole nature that is geared around nurture yeah the home 1.00

00:37:04.420 sustaining life there's a reason historically that women were so good at nursing right like 1.00

00:37:10.580 and and culturally speaking before like 20 minutes ago this was all common knowledge 1.00

00:37:15.940 yeah people were like yeah duh obviously even in the 1920s when suffrage passes most people were

00:37:22.500 against it they yeah this is another one of those threads that people don't understand it's like

00:37:26.860 not only were they making up studies and oh yeah everyone's dissatisfied the like heart seller like

00:37:33.440 many of these pivotal legislative acts in the 20th century or legal and judiciary moves that that led

00:37:40.700 to great cultural transformations, they were undertaken by a small percentage of elites

00:37:46.540 and political revolutionaries without the widespread knowledge or consent even of the

00:37:52.700 populace.

00:37:53.680 Yeah.

00:37:54.160 So these were foisted upon the American people.

00:37:57.340 And then once they had the legal leverage, they used that legal leverage to transform

00:38:02.280 the culture and the popular opinion.

00:38:04.040 But they did it in that direction and not often the other direction.

00:38:07.240 yeah i also want to ask you um you'll have a lot of people do the white knight thing we've talked

00:38:13.400 about this my anticipation is the book comes out you'll have a lot of complementarian pastors

00:38:19.520 who will come out and they will say these guys are shock jocks of course they're just trying to

00:38:24.680 get clicks and likes that's of course not what they're doing with their platforms oh yeah we

00:38:30.220 we would never do that but they are yeah um how do you respond to that person yeah like what what

00:38:37.520 are we actually in this for what do we hope to see do we hate women is this a you know i think

00:38:44.320 there's even been some guys who have surrounding us who have you know maybe even latched on to some 0.99

00:38:49.780 of that language women are dumb women don't know how to think um i i want to get your take on that 1.00

00:38:57.640 I would tend to be with like Susan Fenimore Cooper, where she said, it's not that women are dumb and that's why they shouldn't vote. 1.00

00:39:05.040 It's that their intelligence is geared for a totally different set of skills and vocational things, not civil rule. 1.00

00:39:11.640 So that whole mix of things, how would you respond to it?

00:39:15.440 Yeah, there is an interesting like that is there's some obvious stuff and there's some complicated stuff there. 0.96

00:39:20.640 like i am fine making a distinction between like a jocular oh women are dumb like we you me and my 0.95

00:39:29.700 wife we joke regularly it would be like why why are women the way that they are ben and i have 0.98

00:39:34.960 joked on hana cosmos like extensively about about this because we did a whole episode on mass hysteria

00:39:41.280 events in history and what's hilarious is that when you look at them the culprits are like 80

00:39:48.320 plus percent women all the time. And we actually, in this book, we have the data to prove why that 0.99

00:39:52.860 is. Yeah, they are more prone. So stay tuned. That's like a cliffhanger, but there's actually

00:39:56.720 data behind this. Yeah, they absolutely do. And there are reasons, again, in nature, God's act

00:40:02.220 of authority and creation in nature, that explain why when you create certain conditions and put

00:40:09.560 women in certain situations that they're not supposed to be in, uncovered by male authority 0.85

00:40:15.280 and unrestrained, their worst impulse is unrestrained. 0.99

00:40:19.980 They do become very dumb in what they do. 0.98

00:40:22.980 The things that they do become illogical 0.99

00:40:25.320 and self-destructive and even suicidal.

00:40:27.580 Like when you think about rape gangs

00:40:29.720 that are wandering through Europe 1.00

00:40:31.700 made up of dangerous, low IQ foreigners 1.00

00:40:34.300 who worship demons, 1.00

00:40:36.060 raping European women and British women. 1.00

00:40:39.800 Why are they there? 1.00

00:40:41.760 Because those women voted for them to be there. 1.00

00:40:44.140 yeah they wanted them there so it's this is like it's a stupid thing the suicidal empathy 1.00

00:40:48.880 absolutely suicidal yeah and that is an example of just one little example there's a million you 0.99

00:40:53.900 could give of the worst instincts of women put in a situation they never were supposed to be in 1.00

00:40:59.280 and it becomes stupid foolish dysfunctional and suicidal okay that's true at the same time like 1.00

00:41:07.700 you said, women are the glory of man. Women are not stupid. Women are extremely competent at the 1.00

00:41:18.040 things that God appointed for them to do. Women can do things that men cannot do and vice versa. 0.99

00:41:25.700 And so when you put women and the woman, we could say like archetypally, in her proper order in the 0.87

00:41:32.160 hierarchy of creation and nature in the home and the church and the institutions of the politics

00:41:37.200 and, you know, the institutions, the economy, the institutions of art, like when you put women in

00:41:42.720 the right spots in all of them, they do really well. And they contribute to society in quite

00:41:50.340 literally irreplaceable ways, like making people, but not just making people. It's not just the

00:41:58.420 brute act of biological reproduction, because you need a man for that too. It's what they

00:42:04.700 contribute at all of those levels in ways that like you should think if you have a godly wife

00:42:13.100 and you have done a good job as a husband of leading her and she's doing a good job in her

00:42:16.700 role and you're doing a good job in hers the attitude you should have towards one another

00:42:20.820 is one of such treasuring and cherishing that like I was thinking this morning kind of morbidly

00:42:28.060 because of death surrounding our family lately we just had like long time friends that we've known

00:42:34.340 um like a husband in his early 60s just dropped dead out of nowhere healthy guy vigorous very

00:42:41.640 successful just die situations like that and i started thinking about my wife just this morning

00:42:48.180 and i was like the life insurance policy she has is not nearly enough i would need like

00:42:55.380 10 times that to even come close to partly replacing her because she's like if i was

00:43:01.540 morbidly thinking about both of our deaths and making sure that I had ordered our home

00:43:04.680 properly, that it could continue to function if one of us died. And when I thought about that,

00:43:11.020 it was like, Oh, like my wife is a treasure. My wife is, she is my most powerful deputy.

00:43:17.060 She is my suitable helper without her help. I would be not just half as effective. I would be

00:43:25.280 a 10th as effective. I wouldn't be the man that I am today. And, and in, you know,

00:43:30.920 Lord willing, in 20 years, I won't be the man that I will become without her help. God appointed

00:43:37.120 that. So I want to be careful. I want to be able to mock the false gods of the day. And one of them

00:43:44.560 is the worship of women, the idea that women don't sin and say, actually, when you put women 0.53

00:43:50.060 in political rule or situations of dominance in the hierarchy, they do not belong in their nature. 1.00

00:43:56.080 their worst instincts rule and they become dumb. 1.00

00:43:58.960 They become absolutely suicidally dumb. 1.00

00:44:01.240 They will destroy everything for the dumbest possible reasons 1.00

00:44:05.020 that make no sense whatsoever. 1.00

00:44:07.320 That's not to say men don't sin and men aren't stupid 0.99

00:44:09.260 when you do the same thing to them because they are. 1.00

00:44:11.140 Men become stupid and dumb and foolish 1.00

00:44:13.020 when you put men in situations they're not supposed to be in. 1.00

00:44:16.420 I want to be able to do both of those things at the same time.

00:44:20.720 And it just requires, I think,

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00:46:30.700 hall listeners get 15 off their first order so yeah i totally agree with you i think it's that's

00:46:39.540 all well said um so now for like the complementarian white knights because i can i already we've already

00:46:46.480 had this i already foresee this happening where they step in and they're like brian and eric

00:46:51.340 they want to disparage women by forcing them into the home yeah you know like because even some of

00:46:57.500 the like kevin deong the best complementarian arguments out there the most conservative

00:47:01.760 you know it's it's sort of like the well there's a tie break vote if it really comes down to it

00:47:07.060 You have to listen to your husband, but you know,

00:47:09.660 if she works outside the home, that's fine. You know, motherhood. Yeah. 0.99

00:47:13.260 It's important. Don't make the family an idol. Yeah. Um,

00:47:16.300 I could see that guy just like they came after Christian nationalism.

00:47:20.980 Yep. That they're going to come after this sort of thing. Oh yeah. And say, 0.83

00:47:24.880 Oh, these, I already foresee the term hyper patriarchy will be used a lot,

00:47:30.680 a lot. It's always hyper this hyper that to those kinds of people I would say,

00:47:35.140 And I would rebut them by saying they're, they're actually the one with the problem, not us. They view as hyper and radical the things we're saying, because fundamentally what they have done is on the level of their software programming, their presuppositions and prior commitments, they have already adopted egalitarianism as a norm and a norming function in a lot of areas of their life, of their life that are unexamined.

00:47:59.980 And so what they're trying to do, complementarianism does this in many of its iterations. They're trying to solve the problem from inside of the house of liberalism, not realizing that the house itself, they need to get out of the house and burn it down.

00:48:17.220 You're in the longhouse. They're like a person to use another illustration that's house related. They're like a person who's like rearranging the furniture to try to optimize the flow of the house for hospitality and all this stuff. But the house is on fire. And the problem is they actually need to leave it.

00:48:34.700 They can't rearrange. You can't go into the presuppositions and prior commitments of liberalism and then make a few tweaks and then say, well, now this is a Christian version of that.

00:48:48.080 They don't even think they're doing that, though.

00:48:49.940 Yeah. And my argument is that they are. And actually, many of these liberal prior commitments that they're operating on the basis of are demonstrably, as we try to show in the book, demonstrably contrary to God's authority in Scripture and nature.

00:49:06.520 and so no matter what you do if you adopt them and live as if they're true bad things will happen

00:49:11.660 yeah now maybe you can make it so less bad things will happen than if you just went the full pink 0.72

00:49:17.460 hair shaved head you know cut my forearm skin off to make a fake phallus feminism you know what i 1.00

00:49:24.980 mean like you could do that and that's that is worse than kevin de young like yeah obviously 1.00

00:49:29.360 but i'm saying best of all would be let's leave the house of those liberal prior commitments

00:49:35.100 let's knock it down clear the rubble and then you'll find some very ancient foundation stones

00:49:41.880 that you could build upon it's the same thing we didn't see as in one of the king's hall yeah

00:49:45.540 i think a big part of it and we've talked about this too before but the idea that you have 1980s

00:49:52.720 novel theologies 1960s novel theologies of all stripes and that these are the starting points

00:49:59.260 it's sort of the same as the conservative movement where we're just conserving the

00:50:03.360 liberal victory from yesterday yeah we're the same as progressivism we just drive the speed limit

00:50:08.480 yeah so i think it's for us it's getting back to the principles what are the actual biblical

00:50:13.380 principles yeah um because if you if you adopt the liberal order framework of life today yeah

00:50:20.380 you have to basically conclude that everybody before let's say the 20th century was a complete 0.94

00:50:25.480 moron right everything was wrong until we figured it out the the irony to me is like even the new 0.90

00:50:32.640 york times we cite this in the book but they they've had multiple articles where they're like 0.98

00:50:37.940 women are like 90 percent more unhappy after feminism than before it way more depressed and 0.99

00:50:44.900 and i i've heard this from so many christians no but like betty for dan was right women were

00:50:48.920 miserable in the 60s no betty for dan lived in a posh house on the hudson river beat her husband

00:50:54.760 and had a servant and guess who paid for all of it he did he did see that is the worst deal of

00:51:02.220 all time pour one out for that man yeah that poor guy he's getting beaten in a house he paid for

00:51:08.900 by a woman he married who then argues that all women are miserable basically because of the

00:51:13.900 arrangement that he has provided for her like talk about your all time but this is actually

00:51:20.780 what mr for dan i don't even think she did she take his name i can't even remember well her last

00:51:25.280 name is goldberg goldstein goldberg it's a burger does it matter again i want you to know that we

00:51:32.580 don't just spurg out on the jews the whole book that's not the book there's sections that explain

00:51:37.580 it but legitimately every time you turn over a rock and you're like you you discover something

00:51:43.740 in some book somewhere and you go surely not again and then you go to like you're like okay

00:51:48.160 is it even like does wikipedia back this up and you go to wikipedia you're like it's right there

00:51:53.080 And then you like go to the footnote in Wikipedia and you're like, oh, and then there's this source.

00:51:57.080 And you just like, I'm telling you, we were trying not to do this.

00:52:01.320 No.

00:52:02.000 And we're pretty restrained.

00:52:03.520 But it's like.

00:52:04.580 Even like critical race theory is very popular to critique right now. 0.87

00:52:09.500 So the Frankfurt School.

00:52:11.640 And then I just.

00:52:12.340 Oh, it's German, right, Eric?

00:52:13.620 Yeah.

00:52:13.940 I just start looking and I'm like, OK.

00:52:16.560 And then everybody attached to it as well.

00:52:18.280 Like Sigmund Freud, his nephew, Bernays.

00:52:21.220 I forget the first name.

00:52:22.100 a nice sauce yeah it bernet sauce um uh father of pr and advertising uh reich father of the

00:52:30.020 sexual revolution wilhelm reich wilhelm reich uh marcusa you just start adding it up and you're 0.99

00:52:35.720 like yeah they're they're all jewish people and there are there are frank there are wicked french 0.94

00:52:40.240 people involved like don't get me wrong i'm contributing to this in the sense of like i've 0.96

00:52:43.680 got the long house on the one side and then i've got the french too so i just want to apologize

00:52:47.900 to everybody for all this. I found

00:52:49.920 out recently, though, I got a lot of Scots-Irish in

00:52:51.900 me, a lot of that. That's better. So, like, 0.98

00:52:53.760 actually, the dominant, I've been, I'm not even

00:52:55.840 mostly French, I find out, which is a

00:52:57.840 huge relief to me. That's a huge relief.

00:52:59.700 But there are a lot of other people,

00:53:01.580 there's a huge cast of characters

00:53:03.160 that are involved in this, but you

00:53:05.680 certainly see a lot of that. I'm wondering, maybe

00:53:07.580 we should talk about

00:53:08.520 where are we going to go? What's the goal of this series

00:53:11.740 on the King's Hall, even? Yeah.

00:53:13.800 Because people, you can go right now

00:53:15.700 and either, as we record

00:53:17.600 this we're not exactly sure of the date but i think you can either pre-order the book or put

00:53:22.240 your email in and be notified the second it's available we should have a page up on the website

00:53:26.220 one way or the other it'll be new kristen and press.com slash longhouse yep and that'll be in

00:53:31.580 the description if anything changes but i'm pretty sure that's it you can go pre-order the book this

00:53:35.880 book is the longest book we've ever published which is ironic the long long house long long

00:53:41.820 house book it's the by it it probably beats the next book in terms of most footnoted by and a

00:53:48.520 factor of about i don't know a thousand 1143 um and it is uh in terms of overall shape and thesis

00:53:58.120 the thesis is that the long house has conquered successfully basically every institution of the

00:54:05.400 West, leading to vast moral social decay. And so we need to be able to see it, understand what 0.69

00:54:13.360 it's done, name the issues, courageously stand against them, escape the longhouse, and then

00:54:19.880 build a non-long housed, masculinely ordered, properly ordered society and begin to do that

00:54:27.780 in all of the ways that we participate in the world and its institution. So that's the book

00:54:32.460 in a nutshell i don't know if you want to say more about that yeah i think a big part of it is

00:54:36.600 obviously not to just black pill people no i think you mentioned this but uh i think there's an aspect

00:54:42.820 too where you have to look reality in the face you have to look at the world we're actually in

00:54:47.000 and you say this is really bad yeah uh but then really the last couple chapters uh we're trying

00:54:51.740 to give people hope yeah um this is not the first time that people have had to escape in human

00:54:57.080 history from oppressive orders and regimes yeah and so we're going to look at some historical

00:55:01.420 examples of people who've done that, who've rebuilt when it didn't seem possible. And then

00:55:07.660 I think hopefully give a blueprint. We talk about Christian boroughs, but tribes of men having 1.00

00:55:13.120 counter communities. Yeah. Using examples from history and scripture, Jason and the Argonauts, 0.97

00:55:19.580 David and his men at the cave of Dulem, King Alfred, you know, we talk about what we're up

00:55:25.540 to here in Ogden. It's not a book about like, it's not autobiographical Ogden stuff necessarily,

00:55:30.560 But some of these principles applied and how they've looked because they're humble beginnings. 0.84

00:55:33.800 But these are the types of things that Christians need to do if we're going to not only notice all these things about the longhouse, but then like escape it. 0.99

00:55:44.700 I don't want to live in the longhouse and neither should you. 0.99

00:55:47.720 Yeah. And I think it comes from experience, right?

00:55:49.660 That I think we're actually we've had to deal with feminism, as you've said, in institutions. 0.98

00:55:54.540 We've had to carve out institutions where it's not ruled by a feminist longhouse mindset.

00:55:59.900 So I think it's also we're standing really on the work that we've done.

00:56:03.980 Yeah.

00:56:04.440 That we've been able to help, you know, establish godly order in households, for example, and in the church.

00:56:11.340 So hopefully that's an encouragement.

00:56:13.760 I guess my other question, too, that we should probably talk about is like, what would we hope this book accomplishes?

00:56:19.220 Yeah.

00:56:19.620 One of the things that I hope for, I think there's a range, but I hope that people who are maybe even skeptical of some of the work that we do or you see us on Twitter.

00:56:28.700 and you think, wow, that's, that seems pretty crazy. Um, but maybe that you would actually

00:56:33.600 think through it. Yep. This was one of the reasons that I chose to do more journalistic style

00:56:38.280 for my part of it, at least, and then add a lot of footnotes. I want people to actually

00:56:44.920 check the sources. Yeah. Go read them, go back and read the stuff. Um, actually think through it.

00:56:50.960 Um, again, that could be a number of pastors who, who maybe you're on board with 50% of what we do.

00:56:55.800 and you say, I don't know, maybe, maybe you guys are off here, uh, but do some of the reading and

00:57:01.300 some of the legwork and you might actually be more convinced. Yeah. This isn't like a chat GPT book

00:57:06.680 booklet thrown together in three weeks. And then no, this is a work, a work that we're trying to

00:57:13.580 really put our back into it, put our back into, uh, making it as helpful as possible, accurate

00:57:18.120 as possible to all sorts of people. I, I for one hope that, you know, you think of a book like

00:57:23.420 Jeremy Carl's book on the unprotected class. And his very narrow thesis in that book, he's talking

00:57:29.600 about the problem of anti-white legal, cultural, social issues, that we've built this very much

00:57:37.080 anti-white society on the level of popular culture and legal institutions and medical institutions

00:57:42.880 and universities and all these things. And he does that very compellingly. And a lot of guys 0.91

00:57:48.200 in our circle who are maybe like as wildly right wing as we are, some of them would read, you know,

00:57:53.080 Jeremy's book and say, yeah, I don't, you know, I, he pointed some light at some good stuff,

00:57:58.160 but like, he didn't go far enough here. He didn't do good enough here or whatever. And I'm not

00:58:01.500 saying that we're, the book has the same tone. Ours is much more King's hall and like kind of

00:58:06.220 our vibe than that book for sure. But one thing that book did just unquestionably was it got in

00:58:14.640 the hands of some of the most influential people in America and persuaded them of the problem

00:58:20.680 in ways that whatever you think about particular solutions that jeremy carl offered or whatever

00:58:26.760 throughout the book or like his ideas he was very successful i know for a fact that that book

00:58:33.080 influenced many people in the trump administration probably president trump himself

00:58:37.600 yeah in certain ways um i think like you i'm pretty sure elon musk has read it i think that

00:58:42.840 kind of thing and i'm not saying like from our humble little basement podcast studio here like

00:58:48.800 from our humble treadmill desk setups where the book was put together that like we're hoping,

00:58:54.520 well, I am hoping that Donald Trump reads it. Have your people call our people. But I do hope

00:58:59.740 that like in terms of what would the wildest success of this book be like, it would be that

00:59:06.760 people read it in situations like that who don't even admit necessarily that they've read it.

00:59:12.440 I mean, obviously be more successful if they were willing to admit it and embrace it and all that.

00:59:15.820 But I hope that, realistically speaking, people in institutions like that, politically, educationally, the university, et cetera, read the book and are persuaded of at least central parts of the thesis.

00:59:30.480 Even if they don't agree with every conclusion that we reach and every meticulous, fine-tooth application in terms of our situation here, some of them are frankly very difficult to apply.

00:59:41.920 For example, if you were like the president of a large institution, like a university that had 20,000 students, or if you were a senator or something, like there are things you could do, but you wouldn't be able to take this.

00:59:54.220 We know this tactically.

00:59:55.300 You wouldn't be able to take the same exact spirit that we have done here at Ogden to our NASA institutions.

01:00:01.140 But I hope that people like that read it and are influenced by it and are persuaded of at least some significant portion of the core thesis.

01:00:08.220 Yeah.

01:00:08.900 That would be wonderful.

01:00:09.880 yeah and i again for my money i would hope that you know pastors start thinking through this

01:00:14.860 start preaching on these issues start realizing honestly that like we didn't make it up paul

01:00:19.520 addresses all these issues in scripture uh and the you know church fathers did as well yeah

01:00:24.920 absolutely um sort of adjacent work but like zach garris honor thy fathers uh published through us

01:00:31.380 um just tremendous book honor to publish it zach did great work but like i think as we get more

01:00:38.060 resourcement that was one of the things that i don't know it's about going back to the ancient

01:00:44.160 landmarks but it's helped me in this process of saying to people and even for myself i'm not

01:00:50.820 making up something new no we're actually just unearthing what all the rubbish that has covered

01:00:57.020 the true landmarks and the true principles yep and the glorious things of the christian past

01:01:01.580 Yep. And we're saying God was right. Our fathers were right. Let's honor them. Yep. We've often

01:01:08.520 said this, like things like we're not Gothard. We're Gouge. Yeah. Gouge, not Gothard. The garden,

01:01:13.420 not Gothard. This is not 1990s, weird homeschool adjacent stuff, which a lot of that's overblown

01:01:18.880 by libs who hate Christians. I don't want to recognize that. But at the same time, just even

01:01:23.160 autobiographically, we did not come from that world, nor were we influenced by it. I've never

01:01:28.520 read or interacted with those people at all. It's William

01:01:32.380 Gouge. It's 1600s. It's the Garden of Eden. It's

01:01:36.480 Paul. It's Peter. It's the Old New Testament. It's honestly a lot of the

01:01:40.320 Puritan spirit and the founders of America and the things

01:01:44.380 that they taught. So we're actually trying to recover something that is actually germane to

01:01:48.220 the American past. Yeah, and even to that point, a lot of what we're talking about

01:01:52.260 is downstream in terms of the deleterious effects of these corrosive ideologies.

01:01:56.820 It's downstream of the industrial revolution and what it did. 0.51

01:01:59.860 So even in recovering the productive Christian household, we're not saying, for example, that women should just be put in the kitchen, period, and there's nothing else for them to do. 0.50

01:02:12.080 Basically, they cook and clean.

01:02:13.440 Cooking and cleaning is very important.

01:02:14.720 It's for people.

01:02:15.360 It's done in love.

01:02:16.040 It's a good, noble task. 0.95

01:02:18.020 But women were given to be the helpers of their husbands under the authority and leadership of their husbands.

01:02:23.440 And that task is very flexible and actually has quite a bit of variation because husbands are very different and the vocations and households of husbands are very different.

01:02:33.380 And the farm wife looked different from the blacksmith's wife, looked different from the politician and judge's wife, looked different from the sheriff's wife, looked at, you know, you go through all these, it is like God loves this world of variegation and distinction and hierarchy, but also like differentness.

01:02:53.440 So the goal isn't to, like, command C, command V, like, copy-paste one exact household that looks all the way up and down exactly identically across all of society and end up making, like, a world that looks kind of like the suburbs.

01:03:09.560 the goal is actually to just get the principles worked out properly yeah and they will live in

01:03:16.500 10 000 different arrangements and households within lots of different specific situations

01:03:23.540 where the man and the woman are working together with the grain of their nature and under the

01:03:28.340 authority of god himself to create the richness of society america in its early founding and its

01:03:38.200 glory and zenith a lot of it was that it was men and women loving one another and working together

01:03:44.420 in these very principled beautiful and variegated ways that led to happy people yeah it's interesting

01:03:54.780 the juxtaposition we obviously published adam madden's book the productive household it's sort

01:04:00.360 of in many ways like the productive christian household is like the antithesis antithesis it's

01:04:04.760 like anti yeah of the long house yeah because the long house is like a huge bureaucracy who

01:04:10.380 controls your life and and what has it produced it's produced a society where everybody has bs

01:04:17.320 meaningless work they hate their life they hate their jobs the crazy thing to me i talked to so

01:04:22.960 many people even within the church who will say things like i go to work all day and my kids and

01:04:29.740 my wife are just bored at home yeah and that's a real problem we have to face but then you get

01:04:34.380 into productive households and people working together and this whole thing being this incredible

01:04:39.440 ecosystem of productive labor yeah and and now that we're you know in our household we're more

01:04:45.080 part of this and like my wife would laugh if you said what do you do when you're bored somebody

01:04:50.560 asked me the other day like what do you do with all your free time yeah i was like uh we're like

01:04:56.860 free time when you say free we're doing i'm very happy and very busy and there's lots of rest too

01:05:05.320 there's lots of yeah rest and recreation all that but but even that it's like okay there's worship

01:05:09.680 on sundays there's hospitality there's time with god's people there's time with your family there's

01:05:14.420 constant discipleship deuteronomy 6 going on with your children there's education in the school

01:05:19.980 education in the home yeah the kids are actually involved in the many businesses that we're

01:05:24.460 affiliated with here in Ogden, including our own. So it's like, you look at this and

01:05:29.400 that's a different way of looking at the world. But I hope, my hope is that it will give people

01:05:36.080 hope in turn. And they could say like, yeah, let's think through this. That's kind of the

01:05:41.880 one thing that I would tell people as you're reading through it, you'll probably have points

01:05:46.260 where you, you're kind of like churning inside and you're saying like, wait a minute, if that's

01:05:51.560 true then this is true and so i would say just just be patient with that process yeah you need

01:05:56.200 a circle of friends where you can talk about some of these things and work through how to apply them

01:06:00.160 you don't want to apply them in ham-fisted reactionary ways yeah with like 30 seconds

01:06:05.040 of forethought right um and because we've had to do that for many many years now yeah and we're

01:06:10.480 still you know as you said work in progress constant maintenance constant tinkering constant

01:06:14.600 improvement all of it yeah we've done it with the school we've done it with home home life if you're

01:06:20.520 if you're not constantly solving problems you're either not doing enough or you are actually

01:06:26.620 ignoring problems yeah because problems are perennial yeah one of the things maybe and

01:06:31.700 maybe we can kind of close down with some of this but you mentioned in the cold open is courage

01:06:36.520 um i've been thinking a lot lately about just the world um the under the curse entropy it takes a

01:06:43.720 certain kind of man to push back like if you're going to make it in this world as a christian man

01:06:48.740 i think you have to be a lot more like the salmon swimming upstream yeah you cannot be the dead fish

01:06:54.420 floating with the current and i just look at our world and i say it really is true even in ogden

01:07:00.960 we're so blessed here but you have to fight every day absolutely everything around you is dragging

01:07:07.860 you the opposite way yeah god is always faithful to put sand in the gears allowing sand in the

01:07:14.320 gears because that is, it's, it's like putting weights on the bar. It's what strengthens you

01:07:19.840 as you lift them again and again and again and again. And life is like this. You have to do

01:07:24.180 constant building, constant maintenance, constant problem solving. And a prerequisite to all of it

01:07:29.120 is that we would cultivate a spirit of agency and courage where we say the world doesn't just

01:07:34.960 happen to me. I'm also happening to the world. And given the terribleness of everything,

01:07:42.300 like there is a little bit of not black pilling but like reality pilling by the way just aside

01:07:47.900 the red pill all along was supposed to be to align with reality not just to like say the most

01:07:53.440 based thing that you could possibly think of in any given moment it's like reality that at its

01:07:58.680 best that's what red pill means yeah you're looking at reality and willing to tell the truth

01:08:02.700 about it and then align with what wisdom would look like in light of that reality and that takes

01:08:08.800 massive courage in our world a lot of energy you're gonna have to be like the guy that

01:08:14.940 gets up and pushes against the grain a lot and what happens is that as you do that you carve out

01:08:21.840 and build gardens and sanctuaries and productive economies and all these different parts of human

01:08:29.080 life and then there is peace and rest and there's still maintenance and all that stuff but within

01:08:34.760 the walls, but things really do get better. But they only get better if you're willing to A,

01:08:40.620 tell the truth, and then B, do something about it. That is the prerequisite. Nothing good will

01:08:46.500 happen if you don't do those two things. And God will raise up another to do it. He doesn't need

01:08:52.240 us. If you won't do it, he'll raise up another person, and you can embrace mediocrity, sinfulness,

01:08:59.760 and folly fine go do that if that's what you want to do but these things are so thorough going in

01:09:05.900 society that there's almost no aspect of life and culture that the things even in this book won't

01:09:10.700 have relevance to when you're going about that work of telling the truth tearing down what needs

01:09:16.680 to be torn down building what needs to be built maintaining what you have built you know etc etc

01:09:20.960 until you die yeah i also i'm sure a lot of people will ask in reading it okay what is the puddle

01:09:28.820 glum thing for me and i love c.s lewis's description of puddle glum because he's kind of a nobody

01:09:35.700 he's a noble nobody though yeah it's sort of like talking with the hobbits like there's a point he's

01:09:42.340 making that you don't have to be the strongest superhero of all time to do something brave

01:09:47.580 and i think about sticking your feet in the fire and i think about all of our past experiences

01:09:53.340 where sometimes it was at a church and i remember at one church i raised my hand and i was like

01:09:59.200 why do we have a women's ministry in which there is a woman basically preaching through romans

01:10:06.020 with the ladies and the pastors were like oh that's interesting i never thought about that

01:10:11.480 and they were cool their wives however not cool and they had to stick their feet in the fire

01:10:17.900 they were very upset did they they did not um i was asked well no i wasn't asked to leave it was

01:10:26.180 more like you know i think it would be good for you and your family if you didn't like go here

01:10:32.520 are you really a good cultural fit the answer was no uh we've noticed that all of the things that

01:10:41.040 you believe we don't believe we don't and and really it was painful right because like the

01:10:48.680 ladies had gotten pretty high and mighty teaching through romans and i remember saying to the

01:10:52.520 pastors they were like well if this lady doesn't teach through romans who who could do it and i

01:10:56.900 said hey we have two pastors you and you what if you what if one of you and see here's the thing

01:11:01.860 in god's word you are called to exposit romans actually it's in the job description it's actually

01:11:07.140 what you're called Romans is one of the knockdown Paul told Timothy to be immersed in these things

01:11:12.380 which reading scripture publicly teaching exhorting from it you know like it's it's right

01:11:18.580 there in the job description uh but Brian can you think of other examples maybe of like sticking

01:11:23.380 your feet in the fire maybe some of the experiences that that you've personally had to face

01:11:28.860 um probably the issue for you and thinking through them is there's so many of them yeah which I'm

01:11:34.680 trying to think of ones i haven't given before but there's just a million of them i tell a story

01:11:40.660 in the book about the worst convert like one of the worst conversations i've ever had

01:11:46.940 that was a specific example of our session of elders standing up to a karen an hr lady karen

01:11:55.120 who was trying to dictate what the church needed to do through the the uh plandemic i'm not going

01:12:01.480 to say the word because certain platforms don't like it. You know what I'm talking about? 2002

01:12:06.520 zero. And, um, I was in my car, it was like a Saturday. So I was home and we just announced

01:12:15.120 like, no, we're meeting. Like if you want to wear a mask, I guess you can wear one, but like you

01:12:19.540 don't have to. And yeah. And nobody wore me. Like it was pretty much, there were no, there was not

01:12:24.040 a hardly a mask to be seen. And we're going to sing, we're going to like do all the stuff we

01:12:28.160 normal normally do because god told us to and also nobody's actually like we're not all dying

01:12:33.880 from this thing it's yeah but if you're singing brian it's a super spreader event true we super

01:12:38.320 spread so i got a call and i was like oh good this lady and it was a good example it's a lady 0.99

01:12:45.980 without a strong husband he wasn't a believer she was shaped by the worst untethered feminine

01:12:52.800 instincts and had no husband to tell her calm down ma'am and so I drew like that was my my 0.99

01:12:59.120 assignment for the day I got to tell her calm down and I went in my car and at the time I wore like

01:13:03.380 a watch that had some kind of fitness tracker on it or something and it was like alerted me 15

01:13:08.940 minutes into the call I mean I was very calm I was like yes ma'am no ma'am like we're not doing that

01:13:12.760 nope not even if you don't like it we're still gonna we're gonna stick to our guns this is what's

01:13:16.400 right you know you're you're welcome to not come to the church anymore if you want to go to the

01:13:20.900 the church that, well, you can't go to that church cause they're not meeting, I guess.

01:13:23.480 But if you wanted to like attend virtually and take Mountain Dew communion, like, you know,

01:13:27.340 you can do that. And my, but internally I was like experiencing strong emotions and my heart,

01:13:38.400 my watch alerted me. It was like, are you having a cardiac event? Your heart rate is alarmingly high.

01:13:45.800 and i am sitting still almost saying nothing my heart was just like i was quite frankly angry

01:13:53.780 and having to restrain it and be wise and gentle because it's a woman and reasonable and an older

01:14:01.040 woman and not rebuking her as a young man or something like that but still being firm and

01:14:07.000 that was like take that category of experience as a pastor probably i mean i wouldn't be

01:14:15.460 surprised if I've been through a hundred or 200 of those conversations, moments, decisions,

01:14:22.360 things like that over the last, what, 14, 15 years at this point as a pastor in this church.

01:14:30.800 And you could take that to whatever your thing is and anywhere where you actually can build and

01:14:39.660 gain the authority to order a thing to the standard, because you might not be in charge

01:14:43.820 of things. You might not be able to just do this, but where you can, basically what I'm saying is

01:14:50.340 expect for that to be the outcome. And it's one of the reasons why we wrote the book is because

01:14:54.680 it's not theoretical. We've had to do this again and again. So we're not telling you to do something

01:14:58.740 that, you know, like the Pharisees, they created burdens for people they wouldn't lift with their

01:15:02.920 little finger. Jesus rebuked them for that. I wouldn't want to do that. I wouldn't want to say

01:15:07.960 like, hey, here's a bunch of good ideas. I hope someone will go try it and tell us how it goes.

01:15:11.820 because if it goes well then we might do some of it too no like this is all past tense the church

01:15:20.500 is not long housed new christian press i don't know if you can tell is not long housed at all

01:15:27.900 our school is not long housed fill in the blank with whatever institution you want to say like

01:15:34.440 they are not long housed institutions our people are not long housed they are men they are women

01:15:39.680 they are we're not perfect there's constant maintenance but i can say before god with a

01:15:47.280 clean conscience we are practicing what we preach yeah in these things yeah i think that's really

01:15:53.560 important um so website i guess just to highlight again yeah new christened press.com slash long

01:15:59.140 house um in the next episodes i mean in this episode we're sort of introducing this we've

01:16:03.900 been hinting it up for a while telling you this book is coming um go go pre-order it let's uh we

01:16:10.000 we did order uh we've put in the order already as we put you know say this for the book like we've

01:16:16.200 had an idea of how many we're printing but make it make it sell out like make us do another run

01:16:21.920 buy some for you know airdrop it across your town i don't know like send it to your mayor

01:16:27.960 do stuff you know go use it but we're not just going to rehash the contents of the book in the

01:16:33.200 episodes we're not gonna like go chapter by chapter just like spoil every chapter for you

01:16:37.000 but we are going to do a series of episodes while it's fresh on our mind here having just completed

01:16:41.500 this process of writing this book um we will be doing a series of episodes going through

01:16:48.060 in the podcast format some of the core things we think are really worth talking about in this

01:16:54.280 format it's podcasts aren't as well suited to like the meticulous documentation of all the

01:17:00.000 nuance of history and footnoting and that sort of thing the book is going to do that way better

01:17:04.000 but we do want to talk through a lot of these principles and try to use every single platform

01:17:08.900 that we have to get this conversation moving in more households churches and institutions because

01:17:16.480 we think it's so centrally important so tune in for the next episodes um and uh we we just

01:17:24.760 genuinely hope that they don't just rile you up but they make progress for you in your life

01:17:29.980 yeah and one other thing i would say obviously we appreciate the patreon supporters uh couldn't do

01:17:35.240 this show without you guys so thank you we'll also be uh answering a lot of q a in the after

01:17:40.580 hours we've been doing that a lot more lately it's been really good yeah uh so if you check

01:17:44.580 your podcast feed often there's a place to leave a comment um that we we get them via email at least

01:17:50.840 i do yeah um we can't respond to them but we do on the show yep uh so send in your comments

01:17:56.780 feedback we'd love to hear your stories as well if you've had to deal with stuff like this

01:18:00.500 and uh hopefully be encouraged too that you're not alone um certainly had some situations where

01:18:07.000 you will be the bad guy yep if you stand up to the hr karen totally and if you think that

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01:18:56.380 it's not like an eric chapter brian chapter we wrote the book in collaboration but there are

01:19:01.020 chapters where just the parts that i helped with or contributed or wrote the words that i wrote

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01:20:16.480 believe it or not are in the halls of power um i say this all the time on bright hearth but

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01:21:19.360 Senator, maybe I

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01:21:24.960 and then I decided that that's probably why he's here

01:21:27.660 That's why he's here. So Senator, I want to speak

01:21:29.580 to you directly now. Thank you

01:21:31.660 for your support and I take you listening

01:21:33.560 to this episode as blanket endorsement of everything

01:21:35.560 I and Eric have ever said

01:21:36.960 and I want you to know that from the bottom of my heart. Okay. So thank you.

01:21:40.500 Bottom of the heart. Yeah. It's very deep. It's a deep heart. Awesome. Well, Brian,

01:21:45.620 thank you. It's been a good conversation. Likewise. Thank you guys for listening.

01:21:48.840 We'll catch you in the next episode of the Kings hall podcast.

01:22:06.960 Well, in case you didn't know, we have another King's Hall show called The After Hours,

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The King's Hall - October 23, 2026

Breaking the Dark Spell of Feminism

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