The King's Hall - Careful Christianity

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00:00:37.280 Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

00:00:41.820 The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men,

00:00:46.060 lauding them for their courage.

00:00:47.920 Douglas Wilson

00:00:48.600 Things were dire for the Protestant Church in 1555 England.

00:00:54.220 Queen Mary, eventually to be known as Bloody Mary because of her persecution of the Reformation

00:00:59.000 saints, ascended to the throne of England.

00:01:02.880 The scholar, Nicholas Ridley, had been chaplain to King Henry VIII and was bishop of London

00:01:08.800 under his son Edward.

00:01:10.360 He was a preacher, beloved by his congregation, whose very life portrayed the truths of the

00:01:15.400 Christian doctrines he taught.

00:01:17.100 In his own household, he had daily Bible readings and encouraged scripture memory among his

00:01:22.340 people.

00:01:23.340 Hugh Latimer also became an influential preacher under King Edward's reign.

00:01:28.380 He was an earnest student of the Bible, and as Bishop of Worcester,

00:01:32.960 he encouraged the scriptures to be known in English by the people.

00:01:37.520 His sermons emphasized that men should serve the Lord with a true heart and inward affection,

00:01:43.800 not just with outward show.

00:01:45.880 Latimer's personal life also reinforced his preaching.

00:01:48.520 He was renowned for his works, especially his visitations to the prisons.

00:01:53.880 When Mary became Queen of England, she worked to bring England back to the Roman Catholic Church.

00:01:59.660 One of her first acts was to arrest Bishop Ridley and Bishop Latimer.

00:02:04.880 After serving time in the Tower of London, they were taken to Oxford in September of 1555

00:02:11.180 to be examined by the Lord's Commissioner at Oxford's Divinity School.

00:02:16.880 When Ridley was asked if he believed the Pope was heir to the authority of Peter as a foundation of the Church,

00:02:23.560 he replied that the Church was not built on any man, but on the truth Peter confessed, that Christ was a Son of God.

00:02:30.960 Ridley said he could not honor the Pope in Rome since the papacy was seeking its own glory, not the glory of God.

00:02:37.200 Neither Ridley nor Latimer could accept the Roman Catholic Mass as a sacrifice of Christ.

00:02:43.520 Latimer told the commissioners,

00:02:45.180 Christ made one oblation and sacrifice for the sins of the whole world,

00:02:49.400 and that a perfect sacrifice.

00:02:51.860 Neither needeth there to be nor can there be any other propitiatory sacrifice.

00:02:56.560 These opinions were deeply offensive to the Roman Catholic theologians.

00:03:01.440 The judgment? To be burned at the stake. 0.90

00:03:04.620 As he was being tied to the stake, Ridley prayed,

00:03:07.300 O Heavenly Father, I give unto thee most heartily thanks

00:03:11.340 that thou hast called me to be a professor of thee, even unto death. I beseech thee, Lord God,

00:03:18.120 have mercy on this realm of England and deliver it from all her enemies. Ridley was the first to

00:03:24.800 strengthen his friend. Be of good heart, brother, for God will either assuage the fury of the flame

00:03:30.340 or else strengthen us to abide it. As a bundle of sticks caught fire beneath them, Latimer had his

00:03:36.700 turn raising his voice so ridley could hear it he cried be of good comfort master ridley and play

00:03:42.320 the man we shall this day light such a candle by god's grace in england as i trust shall never be

00:03:48.040 put out the candle of latimer and ridley burst into a torch as their act of courage set the

00:03:55.000 hearts of men to fear god and not men the king's hall podcast exists to make self-ruled men who

00:04:03.460 Rule well and win the world.

00:04:07.800 Well, welcome to another episode of the King's Hall podcast.

00:04:12.600 My name is Dan Burkholder, and I am joined by two of the best men I know, Brian Sauve.

00:04:18.720 So hello, Brian.

00:04:19.940 Hey, hey.

00:04:20.880 And Mr. Eric Kahn.

00:04:23.060 Sláinte, boys.

00:04:24.940 I don't know what that means.

00:04:26.440 So today, we have a very interesting topic.

00:04:30.280 The title of the episode, as you've probably noticed, is somewhere along the line, since

00:04:34.440 whoever does the title hasn't written it yet, is Careful Christianity.

00:04:39.480 Careful Christianity. 0.88

00:04:40.620 So as we continue this work of demolition, we have the wrecking ball out and we're ready 1.00

00:04:45.680 to knock down the shanty town of this cultural Christian carefulness, safetyism. 1.00

00:04:53.140 And so this is the work that we're going to be doing today. 1.00

00:04:56.560 So, Brian, could you give us a broad idea, definition of what is this target that we're aiming the wrecking ball at today?

00:05:05.980 And I actually want a definition, first of all, of slantia.

00:05:08.920 Yeah, why don't you tell us that there, Eric?

00:05:10.500 I thought it was like a base power move to just say, like, I'm not going to actually let you divide it.

00:05:15.440 Is it Gaelic?

00:05:16.400 It's like a Scottish, like, cheers. 1.00

00:05:18.660 Oh, slantia. 1.00

00:05:20.080 Slantia. 1.00

00:05:20.840 Slantia? 1.00

00:05:21.460 Yeah, I'm probably butchering that. 1.00

00:05:23.140 Some Scottish person, don't leave us a one-star review.

00:05:25.500 I was giving you a cheers, Dan.

00:05:26.880 That's what I was talking about.

00:05:27.320 Yeah, that's right.

00:05:28.060 Prost, here.

00:05:28.420 Prost, prost.

00:05:29.260 This is a taste of the after hours.

00:05:31.220 This show is.

00:05:32.780 That we're starting with.

00:05:33.420 You know, you're going to get an edited, polished version of this, but you just know this has been.

00:05:37.240 This is all in.

00:05:38.000 This is all in?

00:05:38.660 This is all in.

00:05:39.300 This is all in because you know what?

00:05:41.100 We're actually friends, you guys.

00:05:42.580 And that's part of.

00:05:43.380 The real lesson was the journey along the way.

00:05:46.200 What is it this saying?

00:05:47.440 The real adventure was.

00:05:48.720 I can't even remember what the saying is. 0.98

00:05:50.660 So careful Christianity.

00:05:52.580 Here's the thing that you have to understand about this project, and especially this beginning work of the project of New Christendom, where we are clearing the job site. 0.91

00:06:01.760 The reality is that a lot of the reason that many of the things exist that we need to clear away is because of our topic today.

00:06:09.600 A lot of the reason that some of the errors that we've traced around revivalism, big, fast, and famous, etc.,

00:06:15.400 a lot of the reason those grew to be such problems is because they weren't addressed

00:06:21.220 by courageous men from the outset. They weren't addressed from courageous men at the outset.

00:06:26.760 So when we say careful Christianity needs to go, if we're to build the new Christendom,

00:06:31.660 we don't mean that we're looking to make a Christianity built on recklessness or a lack

00:06:38.120 of wisdom or care. We're talking about a very particular kind of careful Christianity that is

00:06:45.120 cowardly, that is soft, and that particularly is unwilling to stand on principle for the truth 0.99

00:06:52.480 or correct error where it sees it or stand against the prevailing winds of folly and idolatry in the

00:07:00.480 cultural air as well as in the church. It's the kind of Christianity that is more worried about

00:07:06.140 maintaining seats in the halls of power in institutions than keeping those institutions

00:07:11.060 faithful to Christ. It's about men who are more interested in playing the sweetheart or the

00:07:16.240 politician or the panderer or the sycophant or the chameleon than men who would stand firm on 0.99

00:07:22.840 the principles of scripture, not be a jerk, but stand firm on the principles of scripture and be 0.98

00:07:27.480 willing to actually correct error wherever it is. And rather than pandering to those in error, 0.91

00:07:34.780 hoping to get some kind of benefit from it, actually willing to take a stand.

00:07:37.880 And Latimer and Ridley from our introduction are great examples of this, where they saw errors in the heart of the church that were eating out the heart of the church and leading it to be apostate and faithless.

00:07:49.160 And they were not willing to abide that, even though these were clearly competent men who easily could have gone along with the party line, probably had very comfortable lives, prosperous lives, probably been wealthy and powerful.

00:08:02.740 and yet instead of that, they chose to endure burning at the stake in order to stand for the

00:08:08.020 truth. And so that's the kind of thing that we're aiming to take up today. And the basic way that

00:08:12.740 we'd like to go about it here is instead of in the previous episodes, we've done like, here's

00:08:18.000 the problem. And then we've done another episode responding to it. And we've determined that this

00:08:22.100 topic would actually be better served by immediately reacting to each sort of error,

00:08:27.460 version of the error or iteration of the error with an immediately like, well, not that, but this

00:08:32.980 instead. Here's what it would look like to be a courageous man, courageous Christianity in the

00:08:37.120 face of this particular error. So that's sort of the genus of careful, cowardly Christianity. 0.91

00:08:42.100 And what we're going to do is basically walk you through a few species of cowardice and careful

00:08:47.800 Christianity that we think must go. And so we're going to give you a name for different like

00:08:53.720 prototypical, anthropomorphized, you know, versions of each cowardly, careful Christianity 0.97

00:08:59.900 that needs to go. We're going to give it a name, explain what we mean by that name, and then explain 0.99

00:09:04.360 what must be built in its place if we're to build the next Christendom.

00:09:11.280 One of the things that we're hoping to do with the King's Hall is to see men emboldened,

00:09:16.440 invigorated, and equipped to lead the way in discipling and catechizing their children

00:09:21.400 and see Christian homes built from the ground up.

00:09:24.400 Which is why we're so glad to be partnering with Reformation Heritage Books

00:09:28.540 for this episode of the King's Hall.

00:09:31.000 Reformation Heritage Books offers a large selection of helpful

00:09:34.360 and theologically rigorous resources on everything from biblical theology

00:09:39.020 to history to blue-collar family discipleship.

00:09:42.520 In particular, let me highlight one resource that we found particularly helpful,

00:09:46.420 their Family Worship Bible Guide,

00:09:48.700 which presents rich devotional thoughts on all 1,189 chapters in the Bible,

00:09:55.340 including searching questions to promote conversation

00:09:58.480 and to help you in leading your family in such a way

00:10:01.500 as to be able to stand with Joshua and say,

00:10:04.560 as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

00:10:08.300 Head over to heritagebooks.org, that's heritagebooks.org,

00:10:13.780 or to use the link in the description to pick one up today.

00:10:18.700 and so first gentlemen let's talk about the sycophant eric i just love sycophants first of

00:10:27.100 all thank you know you know it's really so this this whole like names for everything is very

00:10:32.940 brian sauvet if i had written this part it would have been coward one coward two

00:10:37.420 why was thinking of when i saw the names i thought of john bunyan and pilgrim's

00:10:43.000 oh yeah no that's a good point so these would be like mr sycophant oh man if we had taken more time 0.92

00:10:47.580 You could have written a story about a man that goes along the road of cowardly Christianity

00:10:51.180 and the city of cowardice, and he would have met the sycophant. 1.00

00:10:54.220 Wow.

00:10:54.960 You know what?

00:10:55.880 I'll write a book.

00:10:56.300 That's the second episode.

00:10:56.940 Forget about it.

00:10:57.360 Yeah, that's right.

00:10:58.160 That's a great idea.

00:10:58.980 I'll write a book.

00:11:00.100 Yeah, so jumping into the sycophant, this is really, Brian, we were talking about this

00:11:04.380 offline, but really the fear of rebuking people within your own tribe.

00:11:08.140 And I think this can be, it's sort of like a mafia mindset where like, as long as you're

00:11:13.040 loyal to the tribe, you never get, I mean, you might get corrected, but like you can

00:11:16.700 never truly be disciplined yep and that would be the test here is will you deal with sins of the

00:11:22.340 people inside your own group and i mean let's face it even within reformed christendom um we've been

00:11:28.160 as guilty as anyone of this like fanboyism yes say back in the day you were like a driscollite

00:11:34.560 and you were you're all about driscoll and it's like i think there probably was some instances

00:11:39.040 of people unwilling to address sin within that tribe yeah you know we've seen it in other groups

00:11:45.120 as well. It's sort of like not specific to one group, but almost anyone, any group does this,

00:11:51.440 Dan. So I'm curious if you've, if you've seen it and if so, how? Yeah. Typically what I've found

00:11:56.820 is that in our church, this, we're just pastoring our church, right? We've got a church and,

00:12:01.880 and in here you have certain people and they signal constantly about this one person or this

00:12:08.360 one church that they've gone to. And, and even I can feel tendencies in myself, especially in the

00:12:13.280 past as I was more immature in my faith and I was younger. Uh, some of these guys like a Driscoll

00:12:19.320 or like a early on Donald Chandler. I, I actually never really listened to James McDonnell, but I've

00:12:26.080 seen that. He said that though. He was like, yeah, James pastor, you know, the sermon was okay, but

00:12:30.900 it was James McDonald does.

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00:13:13.460 You know, there was also the guy who, he was like, you said something bad about Stephen Furtick

00:13:18.500 during a sermon. Oh yeah. I, that's unacceptable. And I'm leaving. He never came back. It was

00:13:22.780 probably for the better. It was definitely for the better. But, but it is interesting. And I mean,

00:13:27.440 like even even good camps and good groups that i've been a part of we talked about this in the

00:13:31.820 past episode but even with uh doug wilson and the guys in moscow making some correction to

00:13:36.200 theopolis and saying like hey you know we can't be with you if you're not going to openly call

00:13:41.800 out the same-sex attraction endorsement of a book etc like the side b revoice type stuff yeah and

00:13:47.060 you know there were some articles put out and i think a lot of people could see that from the

00:13:50.580 outside and they could say well why not just deal with that in-house well because it was public

00:13:55.940 Yeah. So one of the ways, the opposites of this, I think, and not necessarily to jump right into this, but the opposite of the sycophant would be, hey, starting with groups like ours, three guys, and then people who are pastoring together, elders groups, et cetera, sessions, be willing to address the sins in your own midst.

00:14:13.840 Yeah. And I think that really goes to the, you know, obviously judgment begins with the household

00:14:18.820 of God, but also sort of Joshua and Akin, like deal with the sin in the camp. If we really love

00:14:24.100 the people around us, we have to be courageous. And sometimes I would say the hardest thing,

00:14:28.020 the most, you know, to display courage in is when it's your friend. It's somebody that you love.

00:14:32.940 Yeah. Why don't you tell us? Cause I suspect some of our listeners are probably like Joshua and Akin,

00:14:37.240 that sounds familiar. What happened there? Cause I think that's actually, I didn't think about

00:14:40.820 that's such a perfect biblical example. Going into the promised land, making progress,

00:14:45.360 making headway, going through Jericho, doing all these things. And then all of a sudden,

00:14:49.360 Israel runs into problems and they're no longer successful in battle. And they're starting to

00:14:53.680 see the curse. And so they naturally ask, okay, what's going on? And they whittle it down. And

00:14:58.500 then they find that Achan, if I remember this right, has kept the treasure. And so Achan has

00:15:03.200 it buried in his tent. And so it's dealt with. It has to be dealt with publicly in front of the 0.94

00:15:08.540 community. Um, it's actually severe too because it's aching in his family. Swallowed up, swallowed

00:15:14.960 up, put to death. Yeah. They stand before the camp and God says, stand back because I'm about 0.92

00:15:19.680 to do some judgment. Yeah. The earth opens. And then from then on that, that it's called the

00:15:24.060 Valley of Accor from then on. Yeah, that's right. And so we see a couple of things here. Number one

00:15:29.860 is when one person in a community sins, like in the mid nineties, I would hear this all the time

00:15:35.920 about homosexuality and the argument being made.

00:15:38.340 Well, what they do in their bedroom doesn't hurt you. 0.91

00:15:40.200 Oh, yeah.

00:15:40.920 And that could not be more patently false.

00:15:43.260 Obergefell was seven years ago.

00:15:44.840 Yes.

00:15:45.400 Seven years.

00:15:46.480 Seven years ago.

00:15:47.060 And here we are.

00:15:47.460 And like, you say men don't menstruate? 0.94

00:15:50.120 You bigot.

00:15:51.020 Do you mean chest feeding? 0.85

00:15:52.960 Yeah.

00:15:53.260 Oh, my.

00:15:54.040 Well, I'm not a biologist, so.

00:15:56.600 Like, there was that clip of Dennis Prager talking with Bill Maher

00:15:59.520 that's been going around on the show.

00:16:01.420 And Bill Maher is, like, absolutely roasting Dennis Prager for saying

00:16:04.720 that one of the party lines of this LGBT movement is that men can menstruate.

00:16:10.340 And the whole audience is laughing at Dennis Prager for such an absurd idea.

00:16:14.740 Bill Maher's like, nobody says that.

00:16:16.740 LGBT people don't say that. 0.88

00:16:18.380 This was like 2019.

00:16:19.900 And he's like, show me an article.

00:16:21.360 Show me anybody who's saying that.

00:16:22.880 And Dennis Prager's like, I will make a friendly bet with you.

00:16:25.660 This is already mainstream in that world.

00:16:28.100 Oh, yeah.

00:16:28.760 Three years ago.

00:16:30.380 Well, and I think, yeah, if you'd followed the culture for a long time,

00:16:33.120 And that stuff is, especially if you're in California, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, you

00:16:38.800 saw these things coming for sure.

00:16:40.720 But it is interesting, Dan, at the practical level, and your brother said, I do this, by

00:16:45.080 the way, he listens to our show, which is phenomenal.

00:16:47.380 But he said, every time I finish, I punch to Dan.

00:16:51.180 So Dan's to my left.

00:16:52.980 So I guess this is a form of something else we'll talk about.

00:16:55.700 Yes.

00:16:56.360 I always punch left, Dan.

00:16:59.120 Actually, it's true online.

00:17:00.600 No, that's fine.

00:17:01.040 i know you're going to transition to the next subject yeah were you but but i wanted to talk

00:17:07.960 about the sycophant just a little bit more yeah no that's what i'm saying dig and do oh okay yeah

00:17:11.640 so i've talked about this from a pastor pastoring people that have tendencies of essentially like

00:17:17.380 hero worship we're not talking about that specifically yeah right here just amongst

00:17:21.940 our people we're talking about culture setters trendsetters right sometimes that's enabling

00:17:28.260 somebody who's actively in sin to continue in sin so you'd see that there are certain very

00:17:34.460 charismatic leaders that will surround themselves with yes men sycophants yeah in order to continue

00:17:40.020 in power right and so we've we've seen that time and time again and uh with people in power but

00:17:45.920 then you also have sycophants who are these christian elites or big eva people who are

00:17:51.940 sycophants over some intellectual or some person with power that's not actually a christian and

00:18:00.280 they're constantly like sycophanting is that the the verb yeah i was actually after as you were

00:18:07.420 talking about it dan i was actually looking at the definition that's my thing to do i guess

00:18:10.820 but a sycophant is a person who tries to gain attention by flattering wealthy or influential

00:18:15.920 people an example of a sycophant is someone who agrees with everything his boss says so the yes

00:18:20.380 man and who brings his boss gifts once a month, once a week, or in our case, Dan is not a

00:18:26.900 Chick-fil-A fan because he does not bring Chick-fil-A milkshakes.

00:18:29.880 Oh, it had to come out.

00:18:32.020 The truth had to be.

00:18:33.040 They're bitter.

00:18:33.700 I brought lunch.

00:18:34.620 I had to go get Chick-fil-A.

00:18:35.880 I got myself a milkshake.

00:18:37.220 It was for the road.

00:18:38.280 You know, Dan waltzes in.

00:18:39.900 I need sound design here.

00:18:41.180 Waltzes in. 0.84

00:18:41.820 Make the footsteps sound arrogant.

00:18:43.580 He comes in the room.

00:18:45.220 Okay.

00:18:46.260 Eric and I are sitting there.

00:18:48.000 We are starving.

00:18:48.700 We've been fasting and praying for three days and three nights and we're wasting away.

00:18:53.640 And Dan comes in, slurps the last gulp of this Oreo cookies and cream milkshake from his Chick-fil-A styrofoam cup, which is the ideal fast food cup.

00:19:03.440 And we just look at him and we say, oh, I'm so glad you got milkshakes for all of us.

00:19:07.020 And Dan goes, milkshakes for all of you.

00:19:09.880 I intentionally saved the last drink to make you watch me drink it.

00:19:15.700 I drink it up.

00:19:17.160 I don't think I said that, but I did give you two Chick-fil-A sandwiches.

00:19:20.940 Makes it sound like I just waltzed in with-

00:19:22.640 A left hand and a right hand sandwich.

00:19:23.560 Oh, man.

00:19:24.300 Yeah, yeah.

00:19:24.860 But by the time I was finished, I had a milkshake-sized hole in my heart.

00:19:28.220 Nobody cares about this.

00:19:29.640 We've just lost like a whole bunch of people.

00:19:31.920 The humor is what holds them.

00:19:33.160 It's the glue to the show, Dan.

00:19:34.080 That's right.

00:19:34.740 That's right.

00:19:35.340 Our humor is not funny.

00:19:36.700 It is amazing.

00:19:39.200 So, Dan, speaking of sycophants-

00:19:42.000 Yeah.

00:19:42.380 What is that?

00:19:44.240 Continue.

00:19:44.680 do. So we're talking about something you brought up that I think is interesting is it can be at

00:19:50.640 like the celebrity out there. Yeah. Kind of way, like where you don't really know the person and

00:19:55.380 you just kind of fan boy from a distance. Yeah. And I see this in our camp with like, oh, Jeff

00:19:59.920 Durbin, he's the best. Nothing James White says is wrong. Nothing Doug Wilson says is wrong. Yeah.

00:20:05.000 And then, and then there's also an interesting interplay because later people will be like,

00:20:09.120 guys, my whole world is shattered. Like Doug Wilson said something I don't agree with.

00:20:13.000 Oh yeah. That's the other side of this coin. Yeah. It, it can be such a letdown when you find out

00:20:18.380 they're real people that say things that you don't like. That's so true. In fact, the first

00:20:23.700 two prototypical species of the, of the careful Christianity that we're talking about, one is the 0.84

00:20:28.480 sycophant. And by that we mean that he's inwardly cowardly. He's not, he's cowardly towards his own 0.95

00:20:35.580 tribe. He will never rebuke anybody in his own tribe. He's a flatterer. He's trying to gain

00:20:40.120 power within his tribe by flattering people that have power platform chasing. And so he'll never

00:20:47.640 even openly say, Hey, I disagree with this guy. I disagree with that guy. It's all like he's the

00:20:52.840 greatest hero worship flattery. The 11th commandment is yeah. In the other side of this,

00:20:59.640 and you could call this another type of sycophant, but we put the panderer. This is the guy who does

00:21:04.800 the same thing just to the culture where he won't, we're not talking about people who like within

00:21:09.720 their own tribe they won't ever bring critique but this is the person who just he always punches

00:21:15.600 right it's the guy that's like you know dang christians are too conservative you know what

00:21:20.240 christians don't give enough to the poor that's the problem yeah i was gonna say even recently

00:21:25.040 we had uh jd greer you know former spc president he's preaching at his church um and the church

00:21:30.760 has shrunk a lot of people have left because of the vaccine mandates and closed worship and all

00:21:35.020 this stuff. And he preached a fairly blistering sermon against conservatives. Well, I guess we

00:21:40.700 found your idol and you finally left the church. And it was like a punch you in the mouth kind of 0.84

00:21:45.820 sermon. Yes. So that's an example of punching right. A couple of years ago when JD is speaking

00:21:50.220 to homosexuality, that issue, he said, guys, the scripture whispers about homosexuality and where

00:21:56.800 God whispers, Dan, so should we. So the scriptures are like, don't pick it. And there was actually

00:22:02.300 some good responses like robert gagnon he said um you know really smart guy especially on the

00:22:07.120 issue of sexuality but he said that's like seeing the bible whispers about pedophilia

00:22:11.560 well yeah there's not a lot of passage on it but there's a couple and they're like death penalty

00:22:17.480 yeah like we'll stone you some things are just so vile and bad yeah like we've come up with things

00:22:23.260 creatively ways to sin sexually that they hadn't even thought of yet when moses was giving the law

00:22:29.140 And so like, it's not explicitly included in the law, but, but it's just like when Paul's

00:22:33.720 talking to the Corinthians and he goes, you guys are sinning or tolerating sin, the kind

00:22:38.300 of sin that the pagans don't even do.

00:22:40.100 They don't even do this.

00:22:40.820 A guy has his mother's or his father's wife.

00:22:43.040 Come on. 0.99

00:22:43.420 The pagans don't even do that.

00:22:45.100 Yeah.

00:22:45.620 We see this also with the David Frenchism with the articles he's published on Sundays.

00:22:51.040 We see it with Russell Moore.

00:22:52.780 Russell Moore, I think is a pretty good example of somebody who, and I think we'll talk about

00:22:56.340 this in the next one.

00:22:57.260 Yeah.

00:22:57.400 But somebody who once was like teaching on patriarchy, when he was at Southern Seminary, he was like teaching ethics classes.

00:23:05.540 And they were mostly pretty good from what I remember.

00:23:08.400 But now is at the helm of Heresy Today slash Christianity Today.

00:23:13.280 What did you call it? 0.63

00:23:14.800 The first title?

00:23:16.220 Heresy Today.

00:23:17.160 Heresy Today.

00:23:17.740 And what was the second title you used? 0.66

00:23:19.160 Christianity.

00:23:20.000 Scare quotes.

00:23:20.760 Yeah, definitely the first one was the real title.

00:23:23.580 You know, what's interesting about these folks is because they're always punching right.

00:23:28.200 And a lot of them have very public platforms because they're trying to pony up to people that have power outside of the Christian church because they want a seat at the table.

00:23:37.080 Yeah.

00:23:37.320 Is that quite often there?

00:23:39.120 I mean, for lack of a better word, propaganda is meant to stop the fighting.

00:23:45.220 Yeah.

00:23:45.660 Like the good fighting.

00:23:46.760 the people to the right who are actually trying to you know practice christianity yeah in a day-to-day

00:23:53.580 sort of biblical all of christ for all of life way this serves as propaganda if you go on twitter and

00:23:59.340 you read david french's tweets the aim is and maybe he doesn't intend this but i think he does

00:24:05.380 is actually to discourage yeah to smash the morale of the faithful christian in the same way

00:24:14.220 in World War II, in the Battle of Stalingrad.

00:24:17.280 I don't know how much you guys know about Stalingrad.

00:24:19.520 That battle, it was not like a particularly

00:24:22.580 important strategic position

00:24:25.200 that Hitler was trying to attack.

00:24:27.540 It was because it bore the name of Stalin. 0.92

00:24:30.160 Interesting.

00:24:30.760 And so it was like, and Stalin's like,

00:24:32.840 yeah, he's not going to take my namesake city.

00:24:34.880 And so it became this huge battleground

00:24:37.480 where eventually the million man army

00:24:39.580 drove out the Nazis.

00:24:40.920 But the battle happened for a long time.

00:24:43.600 I don't remember.

00:24:44.220 It was a long battle.

00:24:45.120 It was a long, long time.

00:24:45.820 There was just a small portion of the city that was remaining that the Russians were holding.

00:24:51.840 And the winter came, supplies dried up for Germany.

00:24:56.420 Yeah.

00:24:56.640 And so it's freezing cold, believe it or not, in Russia, which became a problem for Germany and Napoleon and others.

00:25:05.700 But it became an issue because they're freezing to death.

00:25:08.320 They're starving.

00:25:08.920 And so the Soviets, the Red Army, used this as a kind of like David Frenchian opportunity for propagandizing.

00:25:17.960 With loudspeakers, they would play on repeat things like Stalingrad Messengrab, which is German for Stalingrad Mass Grave.

00:25:28.660 And they would play that on repeat over and over and over for hours. 0.98

00:25:33.460 Just trying to discourage the Germans. 0.99

00:25:34.960 Trying to discourage them. 0.91

00:25:35.920 Another message was every second a German dies. 0.98

00:25:40.040 That was another thing. 1.00

00:25:40.800 They would just play it on loudspeaker over and over and over because the Germans don't 1.00

00:25:44.140 want to be there. 1.00

00:25:44.620 They're miserable. 0.99

00:25:45.180 They're starving to death. 0.93

00:25:46.280 Another tactic that they would use, by the way, this is kind of beyond, but they're starving.

00:25:50.680 Supply lines had been cut off by Russia.

00:25:53.760 And so the Germans are starving. 0.93

00:25:55.360 They would take massive quantities of meat and grill them out in the open and then put

00:26:00.420 on the loudspeakers that the Germans could come and eat all they want and to be warm. 0.62

00:26:04.620 and if a german soldier came over they would just put him in prison they wouldn't feed him wow but 0.90

00:26:10.040 they're horrible people anyway so back to david french type archetype of this this person that

00:26:16.180 always punches right to those that are being faithful to discourage the fight when you think 0.91

00:26:22.000 of some of the things that uh david french has said like as like white christian men have fallen

00:26:27.540 into the background the world has become a more peaceful place oh my word and it's just i mean

00:26:33.280 it's utter nonsense um but i think what a lot of this what it gets at is as dan saying a

00:26:39.440 discouragement campaign i also want to point to an article we won't delve too much into this

00:26:44.540 today but i would encourage people to read it it's one of the most important articles

00:26:47.760 that i've read in the last couple years um this is on the uh the blog in may blog so this is

00:26:53.420 doug wilson and it's titled kevin de young and the taxonomy of conflict so he he puts everybody

00:26:59.320 on a scale from one to five yeah and so like one is your leftist total leftist five is your you

00:27:05.380 know proud boys uh and four would be like doug wilson yeah and then three would be like a kevin

00:27:11.140 de young and and what's pertinent for what we're talking about is he said the three will happily

00:27:16.000 a kevin de young type he'll happily associate with the two even a one he will have nothing to

00:27:21.480 do with the four in public and this is kind of the punching right thing publicly he's got to

00:27:25.720 distance himself. So Kevin or people in that, in that movement, can you imagine Ray Ortlund saying,

00:27:30.420 you know, I read this Doug Wilson book and it was really, it was really, they would immediately be

00:27:34.820 kicked out of conferences. The other thing I think that's interesting here is something Doug says in

00:27:39.080 the article, but it's a GK Chesterton quote. And Chesterton said nine times out of 10, it is the

00:27:44.140 coarse word that condemns an evil and the refined word that excuses it. Oh, that's good. I think

00:27:50.820 it's particularly good because we have a lot of the evangelistia for lack of better term i should

00:27:56.280 have included that i made that up and instead of the sophisticate that we're going to get into

00:28:00.240 i should have said evangelistia evangelistia you know they're in an academic world they're trying

00:28:05.840 to impress academic white-collar people we hear this all the time like and i think we'll get into

00:28:10.960 this but your tone's all wrong oh yeah yeah it's not the kind of thing you would hear at the academy

00:28:15.020 it's not waxing eloquent yeah and in fact like so when we when we look at the panderer

00:28:20.120 a lot of the things that they'll come to criticize,

00:28:22.800 like think about this,

00:28:23.760 think about how insane this actually is

00:28:25.160 when you back up a ways

00:28:26.080 and just consider the issues that we're talking about.

00:28:28.760 People, Christians in a lot of middle of the road,

00:28:32.520 powerful, popular Christian circles

00:28:34.660 and leaders in those circles,

00:28:36.380 they'll always punch right

00:28:38.040 and they'll very rarely punch left.

00:28:40.380 But think about what you're doing

00:28:42.100 when you actually do that.

00:28:43.440 The left openly advocates

00:28:46.020 for the dismembering poisoning chopping up of babies and now young children the removing of

00:28:54.560 genitalia from people as a medical uh what's the word like as an actual medical intervention to

00:29:00.840 help them hormones yeah like uh they would support i mean think they support actual racism

00:29:07.620 in the form of some of the policies at you know from critical race theory and these sort of like

00:29:12.260 actual racism against white people, but actual racism. And then they're like continually punching

00:29:17.740 right. And that means they're the three punching at the four for his tone. Yeah. Now they can only

00:29:23.080 mention him if it's like, man, he, you know, I know he was talking about how we shouldn't chop

00:29:27.840 up and poison babies, but did he have to raise his voice? I would submit to you. No, he did not.

00:29:34.040 Did he have to put it that way? And I think that's where we've actually seen it personally.

00:29:37.360 Twitter is a good place. I've recently had somebody reach out and say, you know,

00:29:41.640 you're consistently provocative. And, you know, my thought is there, well,

00:29:45.420 Twitter is a pretty provocative environment. You know, that's not everyday life, but it is pretty

00:29:51.020 provocative. Yeah. But one of the other things that was said is, you know, I don't like your

00:29:54.660 posture and your spirit. And you're like, you don't like me flexing? Yeah, that's a good question.

00:30:01.240 That's a good question. But my thought is always, okay, what was, say, you know, look at the

00:30:07.180 ministry of Jesus, what was his posture and spirit? What was his tone like when he was

00:30:12.180 talking to the Pharisees in Matthew 23? When he's going through the temple, I wonder what his tone

00:30:16.980 was like. And I'm not saying that we're like that all the time. Jesus wasn't, we don't need to be,

00:30:21.480 but I think there's this, this fundamental assumption when you're pandering the tone,

00:30:25.620 please, the posture, your posture is not right. Fundamentally, what it says to me is a lot of

00:30:30.440 people in this camp, they love the glory that comes from the left and not from God.

00:30:35.460 Yeah.

00:30:35.880 You know what's really interesting?

00:30:37.000 You bring up Jesus and the Pharisees and that dynamic.

00:30:40.660 And I've heard leftists say, well, Jesus was punching the religious right.

00:30:47.060 What was going on there?

00:30:48.480 Do you think that's actually what was happening in that situation?

00:30:51.720 And I'm glad you brought this up, Dan, because this is one of the most common oversimplifications of the issue.

00:30:57.840 You see this.

00:30:58.220 Tim Keller, I think today or yesterday, tweeted something like this where, you know, it's the religious elite.

00:31:04.900 They get the strongest criticisms in the scriptures.

00:31:07.960 And what we're advocating is not responding to people who only punch right by only punching left.

00:31:14.320 We're actually saying that you should punch error wherever you find it.

00:31:19.020 And that's what Jesus did.

00:31:20.980 Jesus punched error everywhere he found it.

00:31:23.440 And the Pharisees were terrible because they were in error, not because they were too conservative. 0.99

00:31:29.240 The Pharisees were hypocrites. 1.00

00:31:31.340 They were men without knowledge. 0.97

00:31:33.080 They were pretending to be religious conservatives and meaning we obey the Bible, like the Pharisees were kind of a back to the Bible movement historically, where they were saying, let's return to this really strict adherence to the Mosaic law and Mosaic polity.

00:31:44.960 But they weren't actually doing that. That was the problem. They were using conservatism as a cloak and as a vehicle to gain clout and to gain influence and to gain power and to gain money and gain all of these, the acclaim of men.

00:31:57.360 But what they were actually doing is they were completely disobeying the law.

00:32:01.640 They were too liberal.

00:32:02.940 Like they were sure liberals when it came to obeying the laws about caring for widows and orphans.

00:32:08.140 Like their problem wasn't that they were too fastidious about obeying the law.

00:32:11.720 Their problem, according to Jesus, was that they neglected the way to your matters of the law while ostentatiously obeying these peripheral ones that were very visible.

00:32:19.740 So what we're not saying is, oh, yeah, only punch left or only punch right.

00:32:25.120 We're saying when you see Dennis Prager and when you see the Daily Wire ostentatiously 0.90

00:32:32.100 praising Ruben for buying a baby with his gay lover, and that's conservatism, you punch 0.98

00:32:38.100 it. 0.92

00:32:38.680 And sure, maybe someone's like, you're punching right.

00:32:40.700 Yeah.

00:32:40.960 And when you see the left advocating for the chemical castration of children as a medical

00:32:45.520 intervention, you punch left, quote unquote.

00:32:48.440 But what you're really doing is punching error.

00:32:50.660 You're bringing the truth of Christianity in the gospel of Jesus Christ, 0.80

00:32:55.120 the king of the kingdom into conflict with the culture of death. 0.98

00:32:58.680 That's what you're doing.

00:32:59.780 Yeah.

00:32:59.960 I think a big part of it too,

00:33:01.160 is like a fundamental misunderstanding that people in our camp,

00:33:04.240 but we put us on the four and the taxonomy with Doug Wilson,

00:33:06.760 probably sure.

00:33:07.760 But they think that like,

00:33:09.200 we're all like daily wire,

00:33:10.940 like drink liberal tears type such people.

00:33:13.900 Oh yeah. 0.87

00:33:14.260 Trump, 0.58

00:33:14.760 Trump bites.

00:33:15.380 Yeah.

00:33:15.480 They think we're like just,

00:33:16.720 and I mean,

00:33:17.420 let's,

00:33:17.800 let's,

00:33:18.120 let's be realistic.

00:33:18.780 Like I voted for Trump, 0.63

00:33:20.260 But only because when I'm looking at Hillary, but but I'm also looking at Trump and and I'm willing to say, like, in many ways, he's a very vile man.

00:33:29.700 Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate some of the things that he did, but absolutely.

00:33:34.120 And the Republican Party, yeah, may align a little bit more with our views, but I would never look at it and be like, oh, Trump all the way, baby.

00:33:41.800 Like he's going to be like our country.

00:33:43.380 Our Republican governor today did it released on Twitter yesterday, a video saying like, Hey kids, um, uh, I'm Spencer Cox. I'm the governor of Utah. I, you can refer to me with he, him, his pronouns. I'd love to know what your pronouns are. What are your pronouns kids? Send them to me. Schedule a meeting with me. Why are you gay? Mr. You know, should I call you Mr. Why are you gay? I deserve that. Spencer Cox deserved that. Spencer Cox.

00:34:11.800 You know, but yeah, you're right.

00:34:13.480 It's like people think that we're the drink liberal tears folks.

00:34:16.820 And it's like, no, you should hear us talk about Ben Shapiro.

00:34:20.480 You should hear us talk about, we've got, I would hope that we would have what you'd

00:34:25.600 call range, right?

00:34:26.960 Where we can, again, we're not this, we're not aiming to be sycophants, fearing to rebuke

00:34:31.400 your own tribe.

00:34:33.200 There are many errors within tribes that we would swim in that we criticize openly.

00:34:39.260 we've talked about some of them on the show, but like the theological eggheadery of reformed

00:34:44.520 Christianity, sometimes it's just like obsessed with doctrine and you get this intricate biblical

00:34:49.420 theological sermon. And then, but then you look over and you're like, Hey pastor, but why is your

00:34:52.720 daughter wearing a mini skirt in the first row? Like we've talked about some of these things.

00:34:56.560 We're not aiming to be panderers either to the left or the right, but we want to stand for truth.

00:35:02.580 We want to be men of principle, not sycophants or panderers. Yeah, I think that's right. And I

00:35:07.880 think ultimately we're seeking to derive those principles from scripture yeah so it's not from

00:35:13.860 the republican party it's not from obviously not from the democrat party and here's another big

00:35:18.320 point when you look at the mainstream of christendom the main leaders especially on twitter

00:35:23.380 the guys who and this this probably gets into the next one so hopefully this is a good transition

00:35:28.020 but the chameleon i remember a day when tabidi on wabile was like the conservative branch with 0.97

00:35:33.660 mark dever yeah when he wrote like we need to recover our gag reflex about gay sex yeah like 0.96

00:35:39.500 wasn't that tabidi yeah oh man i mean some of the stuff that they burns they used to burns 0.71

00:35:44.660 mr burns the stuff they were writing was he was based burns and then i think what happened now

00:35:50.840 is like they we've actually seen it on mostly on brian's modesty posts yeah but somebody shared

00:35:56.280 this and it was beth moore and you know now she's like she's just lambasting brian for don't talk

00:36:01.460 women about modesty and blah, blah, blah.

00:36:03.480 Somebody shared an old clip. I can't remember

00:36:05.480 if it was Gabriel Hughes or what? It was Gabe Hughes

00:36:07.500 on his YouTube channel, but then he cut

00:36:09.520 some of it and put it on his Twitter. But

00:36:11.340 Beth Moore is in the video 1.00

00:36:13.080 and she's like, ladies, put 1.00

00:36:15.460 your boobs back in the shirt. You can't 1.00

00:36:17.420 have my husband. You just stop 1.00

00:36:19.400 acting like a skank. And I'm like, 1.00

00:36:21.320 you know, literally, literally. I mean,

00:36:23.360 I'm not exaggerating. 1.00

00:36:24.940 You keep your breasts to yourself. 0.98

00:36:29.880 And then so then I'm thinking, 0.98

00:36:31.460 what happened? Okay. Another one, Russell Moore, uh, Rich Lusk actually reminded me of this in a

00:36:37.220 podcast we did, but he said, you know, back in the, in the OOs, Russ Moore was actually speaking

00:36:43.020 pretty well about patriarchy. He wrote articles in like, didn't he write a, it was almost like

00:36:49.820 a theological paper on patriarchy advocating for patriarchy against the liberal feminism of the

00:36:56.720 day yeah Russell Moore now now he's in the same camp as Kristen Kobes Dumez and the Jesus and

00:37:02.680 John Wayne heresy horrible horrible stuff so I'm gonna do what I do Dan here we go I'm kicking it

00:37:09.500 left so my question is what is going on with the chameleon I want to know like what is the inner

00:37:15.900 working of this dude's brain heart what's going on why is he what will drive him to switch his

00:37:21.140 positions that radically. Yeah. Yeah. You know, being in Utah, we encounter this a lot with a

00:37:26.300 Mormon church, with the LDS church. It's a chameleon religion and it's the same motivation 0.99

00:37:31.140 and that's to maintain power, to maintain relevancy. And so you see the governor of Utah

00:37:38.000 pandering to the left with his preferred pronouns because that's the direction that the LDS church

00:37:44.580 is going because they have to stay relevant. Now, in their case, they've switched from like,

00:37:48.300 you know, no blacks in the priesthood to, Oh, I think that maybe we should have blacks in the 1.00

00:37:52.700 priesthood and Hey, we, you know, should have multiple wives and like, Oh, you can't be a 0.99

00:37:56.840 state. If you don't have multiple wives, I have a revelation from the Lord. God changed his mind.

00:38:00.520 And so, and so it's switching now to these evangelist, uh, is that? Yeah. And I don't

00:38:07.520 even know if that means. So anyway, the, these, uh, big Eva elites, they're trying to adapt to 0.91

00:38:13.780 stay in power. I think that's generally what you're seeing. You're seeing predominant culture 0.63

00:38:19.920 shift from the people that wield the power. And so they're adapting to it. So I think that's what

00:38:27.200 a chameleon is doing. It's surviving. It's trying to maintain what they have money, power, and

00:38:32.720 influence. Yeah. It's saying there's a base. A lot of this is, this is a play that you see run all 0.89

00:38:38.100 the time where conservatives tend to be a fairly gullible base just to be completely frank like our

00:38:44.460 people but they tend to be a fairly gullible sort of people we're not very good and tactical the

00:38:49.960 way the left is the left regularly outflanks they have they have more skilled tacticians

00:38:55.180 partially because a lot of tactics involve subterfuge misleading liars and since leftists

00:39:01.040 are liars they're much better at tactics and you read like Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals that

00:39:06.560 that pastor Wilson rift off of and rules for reformers.

00:39:10.020 And you can kind of see the playbook.

00:39:12.040 But one thing that means is that conservatives are often very easy to

00:39:15.660 monetize.

00:39:16.720 Conservatives are easy to gain a following with. 0.99

00:39:18.760 You see this with really cheesy crap all over the place. 0.98

00:39:21.900 Like a lot of the MAGA culture produced this like whole industry of 0.98

00:39:26.440 t-shirts and apparel and stuff.

00:39:28.400 That's like the,

00:39:29.460 you know, 0.82

00:39:29.860 I crush liberals in my sleep and they're like the affliction style, 1.00

00:39:33.920 But they're fundamentally gay because they actually, culturally, they do nothing. 1.00

00:39:37.700 They do absolutely nothing. 1.00

00:39:39.380 So I think what happens is that people like Beth Moore and Russ Moore are unrelated.

00:39:45.520 They are able to build platforms on the conservative marketplace.

00:39:50.600 And then they gain clout because they have this platform that's fairly big and fairly widespread.

00:39:55.140 And then they begin to signal slowly left and then shift a little step at a time until they're basically unrecognizable.

00:40:03.920 from their original days.

00:40:05.520 It's the typical chameleon grifter.

00:40:07.880 It's I'm going to maintain my real goal

00:40:10.800 is money along the way in influence.

00:40:13.680 And they use that conservative base

00:40:16.100 as like the scaffolding to build up

00:40:18.940 until they don't need it.

00:40:20.540 And one thing that's so wicked about it

00:40:22.800 is that they actually end up taking gullible Christians

00:40:26.320 who are well-meaning 0.67

00:40:27.920 and just kind of like they're sinning in ignorance

00:40:29.500 and they end up discipling those Christians along the way.

00:40:33.920 And they take like kind of unwitting conservatives who then become like liberal and they don't even know it because they're like, I was just listening to Beth Moore the whole time. 0.55

00:40:42.400 If Beth Moore said it, it's she's Christian.

00:40:44.520 She's life.

00:40:45.020 She's mainstream. 0.97

00:40:46.240 You know, it's got to be good.

00:40:47.480 One of the things that I want to ask, we said that we would kind of offer alternatives, the alternatives.

00:40:54.380 So we've gone through the sycophant, the pander, the chameleon.

00:40:57.040 I'll be honest, as I hear these stories in sort of like a first Corinthians 10 way, like to me, they serve as a warning.

00:41:03.400 Yeah.

00:41:03.920 So I'm thinking about us, our community.

00:41:06.420 I think, man, I don't want to go down that path because I think deep down, if we're honest, we all are prone to love the glory that comes from man.

00:41:12.960 Yes.

00:41:13.560 If, you know, Brian and I, like we've had things on Twitter or personal platforms where they kind of like grow to the point where you could see how, you know, I've had to like take time off of Twitter and realize like, hey, I'm spending too much time here.

00:41:27.980 And I'm too worked up about what people are saying.

00:41:31.240 So I wonder on these three things, like the number one question would be, how do we defend

00:41:37.160 against this? And then second, what is the courageous position here? So how do you not

00:41:43.160 be a chameleon? Let's start there. I think that to all of these, one of the most important starting

00:41:48.280 places is that your, your aim should be that you want to be a man of wisdom and principle,

00:41:54.420 and that you're a man who thinks carefully and deeply, who doesn't change his mind quickly,

00:41:59.660 who comes to his convictions and his principle with his Bible open in faith,

00:42:05.460 believing everything he finds in the Bible there,

00:42:07.760 and that he is willing to kill anything that needs to be killed in his own life 0.59

00:42:12.940 or out in the world or in his own tribe even, 0.89

00:42:15.660 whatever sins and idols need to be killed, 0.99

00:42:17.520 he's willing to kill them to bring himself first, his family second, 0.99

00:42:23.060 his church, his people, his tribe next into alignment with the scriptures 0.99

00:42:28.020 that fundamentally this is a man and this might, this might sound incongruous, but this is a man

00:42:34.820 who is deeply driven by glory. The courageous man is deeply driven by the right kind of glory

00:42:40.640 because he understands how paltry the glory that comes from man is. He says I could get a book deal

00:42:47.980 and some speaking gigs at conferences. Look, you guys, the guys who speak at conferences

00:42:52.360 after a couple of them, they're all the same. They're just honest. It's like, whatever the

00:42:56.420 the money all the same because they're small glories i think if we're if we're the guy who's

00:43:00.840 like oh we don't like these people with big platforms and then like secretly in our hearts

00:43:05.680 we just actually just really wish it was us yeah and we're trying to clout chase like we're

00:43:09.600 criticizing the big platforms in order to get people to look at us because you're just envying

00:43:13.600 you just want a bigger platform yourself and i think a lot of people do probably do this yeah

00:43:18.580 that's there's a there's a the old man the flesh that's what he wants in all of us so i'm thinking

00:43:23.880 of practical, you know, you're, you're pastoring a church, you're running your business and,

00:43:28.920 and, and what, how does this matter to you? How does it matter to you? And then how do you not

00:43:32.740 be a chameleon? So maybe for some guys, if you're a pastor, you know, one of the things about being

00:43:37.800 a pastor is you get to speak to a lot of people and it may be that you have a big platform on the

00:43:42.400 interwebs. Yeah. It may be locally. Um, but you certainly have to guard yourself, but then for

00:43:47.340 everybody else. So I'm just wondering, how do you not be a sycophant, pander, a chameleon in very,

00:43:50.800 very practical ways it could be in your marriage yeah absolutely and i think i would tell guys

00:43:56.540 one practical thing for me is you'll have all these like fanboy people who like listen to the

00:44:02.140 podcast um hard man podcast and be like oh people will say to my wife like oh do you just feel so

00:44:07.560 special that you get to know eric she laughs and i'm like and i just tell them i'm like she lives

00:44:14.760 with my sin also yeah um so she gets to see yep lexi has the same like it's just when when you

00:44:22.140 actually know somebody when you know yourself and you're actually in real not plastic relationships

00:44:27.120 with other people when people do any kind of idolizing of you you kind of laugh because you

00:44:32.120 just know how ridiculous it is like how clay-footed and how normal you are and i think one of the 0.99

00:44:38.800 problems with a lot of these guys the cowardly christians that were that are chasing the glory 0.99

00:44:43.660 that comes from man we're talking about is that a lot of them start to believe the press like they 0.97

00:44:48.120 really start to believe that they're indispensable and that they're like sage and that they're you

00:44:52.780 know whatever yeah it can go to your head dan your thoughts on how to guard against this yeah i mean

00:44:57.980 i think the key is a fear of god and not of man and you'll see that like in our cold open we talked

00:45:04.420 about latimer and ridley these men uh one of them i can't remember who was uh he was a counselor

00:45:10.340 to King Henry VIII and was the bishop of London.

00:45:16.080 Yeah, he's a big deal.

00:45:17.380 They feared God.

00:45:18.200 That's why he was amongst the first to be arrested,

00:45:20.520 but he feared God and not man.

00:45:22.540 So when Brian talks about glory, it's the right glory

00:45:26.180 because both want glory.

00:45:28.380 But one is the glory that comes from man,

00:45:31.020 which is the Pharisees' error versus a glory that comes from God.

00:45:36.120 And so when you fear God rightly,

00:45:37.760 you have to have principles that are absolutely unwavering and this will come up a lot in our show

00:45:44.480 as we make self-ruled men who rule well you know and win the world is that you need to have these

00:45:49.920 principles that are absolutely unchanging unchanging principles like being able to read

00:45:54.720 the bible and not blush at any verse to be able to say that is true and i believe it and i will show

00:46:01.120 you where i believe it in my life and so i think that's really important the way that i think is

00:46:06.500 in story too so in in stories you have this stereotypical sycophant chameleon type person

00:46:14.940 who is after power are they usually the good guy or the bad guy yeah i mean that is like the perfect

00:46:20.940 bad guy right yeah and then you have the humble guy who has principles who will not bow to the

00:46:29.400 tyrant and will give his life in order to defend his principles and his family and those he's

00:46:35.340 responsible for which is the greater glory and that's what we're called to time and time again

00:46:40.360 in the scriptures you know is the call to come and die is the call of the christian yeah i think

00:46:46.820 that's huge dan and i was even thinking at business organizational levels like the chameleons

00:46:51.860 in a company the yes men yeah the sycophants no one likes them no a few cult like boss pastor

00:47:00.180 personality type people do like that but but most people don't well they might want to keep them

00:47:04.900 around, but they actually despise them. Yeah. There's, there's a weird relationship there

00:47:08.420 for sure. But overall people look at a chameleon type and they don't like them. So the solution

00:47:12.800 to that, you're absolutely right, is to be a man of principle, which means that, you know,

00:47:17.580 and this is a huge part of our show. Um, but we talk about, you have to develop what are your

00:47:22.440 principles, like the things you'd be willing to die for. Latimer and Ridley knew what they would

00:47:26.740 go to the stake for. I think a lot of Christians today wouldn't go to the stake for anything.

00:47:30.540 Well, this is not a hill to die on. Neither is that one. In fact, there aren't any. So I think

00:47:34.320 about that in principle. And then I also think another practical thing you can do, one of this

00:47:38.460 is one of the reasons that we moved here. And one of the key ones actually is because you need a

00:47:43.780 group of men who are committed to the same principles you are, who are continually reminding

00:47:48.380 you about what those principles are. Yeah. So, you know, there's times in my life where I'm like

00:47:53.320 not really thinking about legacy. I'm just thinking about the next five minutes and I'll ask Dan like,

00:47:58.560 well, what do you think about this decision? And he'll say, well, what's your 50 and a hundred

00:48:01.500 to your plan yeah and you go oh yeah does this push that forward or not yeah i need people to

00:48:06.080 hold me accountable to those principles that we all share yeah and it's a lot easier to fight

00:48:10.380 when you've got somebody behind you and to your side yeah who's urging you on you know i if you

00:48:15.520 if you are interested in in reading a really good story about men as like a group and a gang eric

00:48:21.300 recommended this to me there's some swearing and it's violent but uh the gates of fire about the

00:48:27.420 battle of thermopoly and steven pressfield yeah and the 300 you know the spartans and that story

00:48:34.020 is is pretty compelling as far as like the importance of having a gang of like-minded

00:48:38.920 men who will not let you capitulate who won't let you be a coward and you you won't because you

00:48:44.500 can't let the guy next to you down like like at the end you know not to give anything away for

00:48:49.400 those who haven't read it well there's one dude who's still alive and he's like i want to be dead

00:48:54.240 with them yeah i do not want to be left on earth by myself one guy who's actually a slave yeah and

00:48:59.720 the one anyway and that's part of why it's so powerful but the one line that always gets me

00:49:03.580 is a man without a city is no man at all and the point being like city in that sense of kingdom

00:49:09.180 yes a man without a kingdom without a people it's hard to even define what you are it's like

00:49:14.360 a through line through a lot of these sycophants panderers chameleons everything they do ends up

00:49:19.440 being plastic and fake because all of it is postured to win the glory that comes from man.

00:49:24.480 So they don't have real friendships because real friendships aren't like that, that you can't build

00:49:29.820 a real friendship on pandering or sick. They don't have real convictions that they would die for

00:49:35.120 because they're malleable. They're real. In fact, what it turns out is that the city that they want

00:49:39.700 to defend is themselves. They it's Babel. They are their own tower of Babel. Their glory is, 0.96

00:49:45.180 is is chief and what every man like thinking about the battle thermopoly what every man in

00:49:51.920 that group of 300 or was it 300 that went and they said 300 spartans there were other men yeah i mean

00:49:57.200 this was a historical fiction but sure like a dramatization but it's yeah it's rooted in counted

00:50:02.120 in a historical event where they were basically saying we're going to go and defend this pass

00:50:07.660 and we're going to go defend it knowing that we're almost certainly going to die

00:50:11.660 yeah every single one of us chose men you know who are older they had sons they have on their

00:50:17.720 legacy and so they're they're going why were they willing to do that and why did they not only men

00:50:23.420 who will do that they will do so cheerfully like they will do so with their teeth gritted and and

00:50:28.680 knowing that it's gonna there's gonna be pain and suffering and loss but they will do it like with

00:50:34.300 hearts full of joy because they know that they're actually giving their strength for something

00:50:40.120 worthwhile. And the problem with so much of this cowardly, careful Christianity is that the thing 0.94

00:50:46.780 it's trying to preserve is not actually worth preserving. Like yourself as a God, as your 0.97

00:50:52.860 little tower of Babel, it's not actually glorious. It's not actually worth preserving. It's not 0.98

00:50:58.000 really worth fighting for. And so what you're doing is you're trading this glorious, rich,

00:51:04.800 amazing incredible legacy producing glory that you could be fulfilling with your life the actual

00:51:12.020 glory of God and the kingdom of God and the people of God and instead you're trading that

00:51:16.020 for something that's just like plastic shallow it's not worthwhile so a lot of the time I think

00:51:22.820 that these cowardly careful Christians they end up aiming for joy and glory but they actually 0.95

00:51:29.300 don't understand what either of those things are at the end of the day no and it goes back to you 0.91

00:51:34.460 guys have both mentioned this, but I think of like Isaiah chapter six, Isaiah could be the prophet.

00:51:40.140 He could be the bold prophet. And I would say the same thing about John the Baptist. You could say

00:51:43.780 the same thing about Elijah Moses. The reality is Isaiah saw the Lord face to face. Second

00:51:49.420 Corinthians three and four, we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ

00:51:54.120 are transformed from one degree of glory into another. And so when you think about that, it's

00:51:59.040 like, well, you've got to be transformed by the glory that comes from Christ. You've got to see

00:52:03.360 the image of God. Yeah. You've got to see that through scripture, obviously. And then that is

00:52:09.400 going to radically shape your experience. And I think that the, what's plastic is the fake man

00:52:14.420 glory. You know, Jesus in John's gospel, I think early on, it says he did not entrust himself to

00:52:19.340 men in the crowds because he knew what was in man. Like the crowd, the same crowd that is cheering

00:52:23.880 for you today will crucify you tomorrow. And is that really the glory you want to live for?

00:52:28.520 yep the approval of people is ultimately worthless if you don't have the approval of god and there

00:52:34.620 is a type of respect from and because i think that there is a type of guy who resonates with

00:52:40.060 this who actually needs correction like talking about our own tribe and criticizing our tribe

00:52:44.540 there's a type of guy who's like that's right i'm not going to be one of those gay people who cares 0.98

00:52:50.400 about the opinion of men but then he actually becomes an unteachable arrogant loser listen to 0.96

00:52:55.280 any because he doesn't listen to anybody he he actually ends up making himself god because he 0.93

00:53:00.060 won't be taught by anyone who's like whoa dude actually calm down like you're wrong it's not

00:53:05.200 that you don't fear men it's that you don't fear god like you're you're not concerned about the

00:53:09.740 truth and so that guy he might hear something like this and go yeah that's right i'll just 0.99

00:53:15.160 punch everybody he just punches everybody including his friends and his co-belligerents

00:53:19.360 and he's like dude you need to learn how to like be on a team yeah and that's the other part about 0.87

00:53:23.560 being in a gang is this is probably the thing that people don't understand when you're in a gang of

00:53:28.100 men. Number one, the thing that I care most about is not what people think on me on Twitter,

00:53:32.060 but I care what Dan thinks and I care what Brian thinks and I care what, you know, our people

00:53:36.580 think. Yeah. That means actually quite a bit to me. That's point number one. But then also like

00:53:41.400 being able to, you have to submit to authority. If you can't submit to authority anywhere,

00:53:46.000 I don't think you can really be a courageous man. No, you can't. You absolutely can't. If you can't

00:53:51.220 submit to authority because one of the most courageous, like all of the acts of true courage

00:53:55.340 involve death to self. Yeah. And if you make yourself a God who is beyond correction or

00:54:00.960 teaching and you even call that like, well, I don't fear anybody. All you've done is, is you

00:54:05.580 have become the worst enemy yourself. And now you're the guy that courageous men actually need

00:54:10.820 to oppose. Yeah. Having a good group of guys is gang. One of the things that's interesting about

00:54:17.000 a gang of guys i'm not talking about street gangs but this happens there too is that if one of them

00:54:22.240 steps out of line they're going to get smacked in the mouth yeah yeah and that's really important

00:54:26.440 among men is that when you have other guys that you respect and they respect you and you step out 0.53

00:54:32.860 of line that you need to get smacked you need to be put back in your place and so to ecclesialize

00:54:39.180 it to put it in the church i mean that's like having being able to submit to elders being able

00:54:45.040 to outdo one another and showing honor to one another. Yeah. To be able to submit to other

00:54:50.040 godly men in the church. I mean, you're all keeping watch on one another, you know? And,

00:54:54.580 and so having that church courageous to do that because you like, it takes courage to be like,

00:54:59.100 Hey brother, I could be wrong. Yeah. And to go to somebody that you, again, that you love and say,

00:55:04.920 Hey, I think you're out of line here. Yep. To, um, be told sometimes hypothetically, not me,

00:55:11.060 but other people to be told you're too much of a hammer. People have said that about you other

00:55:14.940 No, not me.

00:55:15.800 Oh, they said about other people.

00:55:16.860 Other people.

00:55:17.580 Hypothetical.

00:55:17.940 Well, you're, you know, actually, Eric, one of the biggest.

00:55:20.740 I'm kind of a feather duster.

00:55:21.660 I feel like your biggest problem is that you're too soft, you're too quiet, and you're too nice.

00:55:28.480 I feel like those are your three biggest problems.

00:55:30.440 Just like my biggest problems are that I work too hard, I give too much, and I care too much.

00:55:34.340 And you don't talk enough.

00:55:35.500 Yeah, and I'm too reserved.

00:55:37.200 Too nuanced.

00:55:38.220 Too much nuance.

00:55:39.220 Too much winsomeness.

00:55:39.880 Like, tell us what you think, Eric.

00:55:41.920 No, I just didn't, you know, Brian, I think about your feelings a lot and I want to make

00:55:45.620 them feel good.

00:55:46.580 Like, I think that your problem is that you have too many qualifications.

00:55:51.880 Yeah, that's right.

00:55:52.780 Why don't we, why don't we move into the second half of our list here?

00:55:55.500 And a lot of these are related.

00:55:56.600 Let's just name, let's name all of them.

00:55:59.320 And I'm going to name and define the rest that we have here.

00:56:02.380 And then we can have a free conversation about them because that's what we've been doing

00:56:05.140 anyway.

00:56:05.740 So we've got the sweetheart. 1.00

00:56:06.940 This is a form of cowardly and careful Christianity. 0.99

00:56:10.060 He's just like winsomeness. 1.00

00:56:11.320 We were just talking about.

00:56:12.140 Yeah.

00:56:12.640 Like when Eric says, like, my mommy dipped me in a barrel of sugar when I was born.

00:56:16.180 And so I'm just super sweet.

00:56:17.320 Yes.

00:56:17.820 The sophisticate, we've mentioned him, like the evangelistia that Eric has named.

00:56:23.200 This is the sophisticate where it's like the Tim Keller tweets where it's always this third

00:56:27.440 way.

00:56:28.220 He's like, I'm not a Republican or a Democrat.

00:56:30.680 And you're like, oh, how brave.

00:56:32.200 But really what's happening is that you just don't want to defend anything.

00:56:35.180 Yeah.

00:56:35.320 You're above the fray.

00:56:36.440 Yeah.

00:56:36.680 So virtuous and pietistic.

00:56:38.920 Pseudo intellectual. 0.85

00:56:40.060 You know the type of person that this person drives me nuts, okay?

00:56:43.680 Speaking of sports, especially being in Utah, I'm from the Midwest, Wisconsin, Packers fans, Vikings fans, Bears fans, all in close proximity.

00:56:51.900 Coming out here, somebody will be dunking on the Packers, and I'm like, oh, yeah, what's your team?

00:56:56.360 Oh, I don't have a team.

00:56:57.260 I don't have a team.

00:56:57.860 I don't have a team.

00:56:58.960 I like all the teams. 0.99

00:56:59.920 You stink. 0.99

00:57:00.940 You're a Golden State Warriors fan. 0.99

00:57:02.520 They were probably three years ago, aren't you?

00:57:03.780 A bandwagon fan?

00:57:04.720 Yeah, exactly.

00:57:05.440 I'm a Seattle fan.

00:57:06.860 Oh, now I'm a Chiefs fan.

00:57:08.380 You know, Seattle is like the bandwagon team out here.

00:57:11.220 What team is Tom Brady playing for again?

00:57:14.480 I'm a Tom Brady Bucca Patriots.

00:57:17.040 Bucca Patriots.

00:57:18.500 Okay, we've got the sophisticate.

00:57:20.300 We've got the politician and the inside man as the last two.

00:57:23.900 The politician is image concern and power obsession.

00:57:27.600 And the main principle is really like get power.

00:57:30.180 And he'll become any of the above.

00:57:32.240 He'll become a sophisticate, a sweetheart, a chameleon, a pander, a sycophant,

00:57:35.400 whatever it takes to get power.

00:57:36.560 and then finally we've got the inside man who is a lot of the time you'll see guys who are

00:57:42.240 important and in institutions and they're they're big names and maybe they've got they've got clout

00:57:48.940 and they'll occasionally faint at giving criticism but they won't go all in because their paycheck

00:57:55.120 is signed by the establishment so a lot of these guys have to they come to a moment where they

00:57:59.860 really have to choose and we need it we need to be patient and love these guys because sometimes

00:58:03.740 these guys are like they might do the right thing they still they haven't come to that decision

00:58:07.920 point yet yeah but uh in the meantime they can be too careful and cowardly where they're actually

00:58:13.640 like ah i don't know if i want to lose my job over this yeah i i'll start with the last one

00:58:19.060 well maybe the last two maybe i'll say two things and they're related well we'll see how crazy this

00:58:23.840 gets but the inside man you know early on when i started the hard man podcast we would have this

00:58:28.580 happen all the time i talked to john harris um who had done a lot of criticizing of the sbc

00:58:33.520 like helpful like we love you and helpful hopefully criticism at least from our perspective

00:58:38.440 and we would get these notes all the time from people who are like brother like people at the

00:58:43.100 top of the you know the sbc and they'd be like brother keep fighting the good fight love the

00:58:48.300 work you're doing it's so important also i can never publicly or any other way associate with

00:58:53.700 you whatsoever i can't follow you on any social media platform i can't like your post because

00:58:59.400 You're straight volatile, but you know what, man?

00:59:01.520 Keep doing the courageous thing.

00:59:03.260 It's made me think about this a lot.

00:59:05.240 I view them like Robert the Bruce types in the Braveheart movie,

00:59:08.060 where you're like, come on, man.

00:59:10.200 Like, if you would just rise up, if you would play the man,

00:59:15.020 as we read about in the first part, if you would be courageous,

00:59:17.980 look, somebody sometime is going to have to lose something.

00:59:21.980 Somebody is going to have to make a sacrifice.

00:59:24.120 And what they don't realize is if you would stop playing the middle,

00:59:27.580 if you would stop playing it safe you have the opportunity to make real change in ways that

00:59:33.240 honestly like when i was the little guy i didn't yeah and even today i still don't these institutional

00:59:38.480 inside men i think they could be and i've actually seen some of them do this but they could be the

00:59:43.980 robert the bruce who says i want to be the courageous leader yeah i think a lot of them deep

00:59:48.600 down do they want to be that yeah they they do actually have the right ideals and they're at

00:59:54.480 war within themselves yeah there's not their principles this is maybe like the nicodemus 0.82

00:59:58.920 yeah right i'm gonna come by night and i'm gonna be like i don't want to i don't want to be seen

01:00:04.140 talking to jesus but you know and i would say like if if you have the opportunity to minister

01:00:08.720 to these guys just encourage them to do the right thing as we keep demonstrating courage

01:00:13.880 i think they will you know some of them won't but some of them will be nicodemus who end up being

01:00:18.860 faithful yeah um being regenerate the other one i want to mention is the politician yeah so i'm

01:00:24.220 going to dunk on him because this is what I do. But what people don't know is Russell Moore was

01:00:28.220 actually in Democrat politics for a long time. When I met him at the Southern Seminary, I remember

01:00:33.280 one time walking down the hallway and I said, oh, hey, Dr. Moore, you know, I'm in one of your

01:00:38.120 classes. It's good to see you. And, you know, have you ever talked to a politician who is just like

01:00:42.840 the most polished Bill Clinton politician of all time? Oh, yeah. He was like, oh, brother, it's so

01:00:47.720 good to see you. And I was just like, oh, no, we've actually never met. Oh, well, how's your

01:00:53.420 family and and i remember thinking like you had like that slimy politician feel and then so i i

01:00:59.640 feel comfortable saying that now because you look at the trajectory and it's like no you really are

01:01:03.500 just a slimy politician you've actually just yeah like the fruit is out now the fruit is out yeah

01:01:09.000 so dan because it's what i do here i am i punch left i can do no other i punch left at least i 0.82

01:01:15.840 know what i do punch left volley left turn left you're like zoolander yeah that's except you can

01:01:22.380 turn left.

01:01:23.280 Yes.

01:01:23.840 Maybe Dan can't turn right.

01:01:25.480 I'm not sure.

01:01:26.100 It's a movie, Dan.

01:01:27.600 Yeah, I got that.

01:01:28.480 It's a male modeling.

01:01:29.820 Here's the thing.

01:01:30.920 Good night.

01:01:31.760 All I heard was add Zoolander sound effects.

01:01:35.200 Please don't get us kicked off the platform for copyright infringement.

01:01:39.240 Speaking of Zoolander, Dan, I want to ask you about the sophisticate.

01:01:43.140 So this would be like Will Ferrell's character.

01:01:45.720 What was his name, Brian?

01:01:47.320 Ricky Bobby?

01:01:48.360 Derelict.

01:01:49.120 Oh, derelict.

01:01:50.760 This is bad.

01:01:51.960 Oh, Zoolander's still.

01:01:53.420 So Zoolander.

01:01:54.180 So the sophisticate.

01:01:54.700 Genuinely haven't seen the movie, so.

01:01:56.000 Dan, what is third-wayism and pseudo-intellectualism of the sophisticate?

01:02:01.520 Pseudo-intellectualism.

01:02:03.400 I know that's your word.

01:02:04.440 Yes.

01:02:04.800 Yeah, that was definitely me.

01:02:06.140 You know what Brian said?

01:02:06.960 He's like, you should write down third-wayism.

01:02:08.800 And I was like, okay, I'll write that one down in the outline. 1.00

01:02:12.020 Yes.

01:02:12.580 Yeah.

01:02:13.560 Pseudo-intellectualism.

01:02:15.300 I believe I've kind of dunked on these sort of people before.

01:02:18.720 where you have the, uh, I'm going to use really big words and I'm going to use really complex

01:02:26.240 ideas with lots of nuance to try to twist you into knots. So then you actually, I don't know

01:02:32.400 what I'm talking about, but neither do you, but it sounds really good. Um, yeah, I think of actually

01:02:38.300 one of the best, well, there's two that I think of, I think of Tim Keller, but I think the all

01:02:42.120 time gold metal belt it's not tim keller word twister it no it's it's ron burns oh like he is

01:02:50.040 like the master of like i you sound really smart but i actually have no idea what you're saying

01:02:54.940 you just insult me or comp i don't know what's going he had an article where he said um he was

01:03:00.600 on cross politic actually and uh he said in the article that when after martin luther king jr was

01:03:06.680 killed there's men or police officers on the balcony pointing out at the city they're like

01:03:11.100 pointing at something. And in the article, he said, when they're pointing, they're pointing

01:03:15.080 at you America, because you're, you're guilty for your culpable. I think it was the word he

01:03:19.460 used. You're culpable for King's death. You. And so he's saying like, our grandparents are culpable

01:03:24.420 and Toby Sumter asked him about this. And he said, well, you said that America was culpable

01:03:29.520 as in guilty. What did they do? And Ron Byrne, you know, he was like, well, no, you're

01:03:35.520 misunderstanding me. Like I wasn't saying that. And he went into this really long thing

01:03:39.300 and toby was like uh-huh yeah no i got it um so the word you used though was culpable

01:03:43.660 and that means and it was like he was trying to nail him down but yeah i i have found this with

01:03:49.220 a lot of these guys like they are really smart yeah they're not dumb people and so it gets really

01:03:54.780 hard to actually talk or interact with them at all yeah direct speech is not one of the tools

01:03:59.900 in their tool belt in fact it's to the point of frustration because just tell me what you think

01:04:06.060 tell me what you believe but that doesn't help them so no it doesn't because they're snakes

01:04:10.400 they're just sometimes snakes i feel like one of the main problems with these guys is that

01:04:15.120 they have inerrant and substrate nihilism that's informing their continental

01:04:19.560 hegelian composites that are also at the same time and in a very real way influenced by the

01:04:30.140 Eastern mysticism of the

01:04:32.140 Hindu prophet. I'm just kidding. 0.99

01:04:34.160 Is there like a are you done? No, I

01:04:36.020 actually have, there's sound effects built into

01:04:38.140 the soundboard for this. Okay, let's hear it.

01:04:40.480 Award you no points, and

01:04:42.120 may God have mercy on your soul. And,

01:04:44.180 and. Oh, there's another. Everyone in

01:04:46.100 this room is now dumber. 1.00

01:04:48.480 That's basically it. You know what, all I'm getting 0.97

01:04:50.120 is that you guys haven't read enough.

01:04:52.700 Could I Google it for you? I mean, wow.

01:04:54.620 I mean, the things that you know, Brian,

01:04:56.080 they're not even Google-able.

01:04:58.700 So sophisticated.

01:04:59.840 Because, well, because they're made up.

01:05:02.600 So speaking of sophistication, Dan, because I punched left.

01:05:06.120 No, I just have to ask you.

01:05:07.780 Sophistication.

01:05:10.220 Sophistication.

01:05:10.660 That's a big word.

01:05:11.400 It's more than two syllables.

01:05:12.540 You were dunking on us and on me the other day for not liking IPAs.

01:05:16.940 Okay, yeah.

01:05:17.780 And so we went to your house and in your fridge you had Coors Light.

01:05:21.360 So talk about sophistication.

01:05:24.260 Yeah, so what I'll say is that there are two types of people.

01:05:27.900 you have snobs and then you have the other one which is snobs and connoisseurs connoisseurs

01:05:36.300 thank you sir welcome connoisseurs so connoisseur could that's a big word three syllables that's a

01:05:42.660 big word that's why i couldn't remember it delicatessen is a big word also delicate oh man

01:05:47.180 i love delicatessen they're my favorite meatball sub three no so this is a great point i'm actually 0.93

01:05:55.940 i want you to make this point this is very yeah so a snob is kind of a jerk about their thing

01:06:02.180 you've met this in the beer world this is you know a beer snob or a whiskey snob or a whatever 0.90

01:06:08.620 and their thing is the right thing and nobody else's opinion really matters revile people

01:06:13.840 but someone comes in and they're like i oh i really i really like that coors light and they're

01:06:17.960 like have you ever had a real beer before yeah yeah right right you're like where i hate you

01:06:23.720 We're a connoisseur is a person who has range.

01:06:26.640 We've talked about range before,

01:06:27.860 but it's kind of like at the table in front of us.

01:06:30.780 Actually,

01:06:31.220 we have a few different types of whiskeys.

01:06:33.380 Yeah.

01:06:33.880 We have one that is a,

01:06:35.980 what is your whiskey?

01:06:36.880 A Glen Fittick 21.

01:06:38.500 21 Reserva Rum Cask.

01:06:40.100 Rum Cask.

01:06:40.780 I actually am holding in my hands,

01:06:42.980 Dan's talk about sophistication.

01:06:44.640 Yeah.

01:06:44.700 Yeah.

01:06:44.840 This is a Jameson established in 1780.

01:06:48.560 A Jameson.

01:06:49.140 I'd say 21 American dollar whiskey.

01:06:51.120 I'm just going to say the price range between these two,

01:06:53.720 is somewhere around $200.

01:06:55.680 It's 10X, yeah.

01:06:57.020 So one was a gift, by the way.

01:06:59.220 Yeah, just for the record.

01:07:00.180 Our budget is definitely.

01:07:02.540 The Reserva Rum Cask.

01:07:03.700 If you want to send us a whiskey, I mean, I'm happy to take it,

01:07:06.720 especially more of that one.

01:07:08.240 Or some peated Octomore, if you could get.

01:07:10.160 Anyway, anyway, the point is.

01:07:12.280 Connoisseur.

01:07:12.680 A connoisseur can sit down and tell you why a Glenn Fittick,

01:07:16.820 21-year-old Reserva Rum Cask is good,

01:07:20.000 and sit down and say, thanks for the Jameson.

01:07:22.360 It's buttery.

01:07:23.020 I love it.

01:07:23.880 Yeah.

01:07:24.020 It's like shortbread cookies.

01:07:24.760 That's why,

01:07:25.260 that's why I think if you open,

01:07:27.040 I'm not a big,

01:07:27.700 I'm not actually a huge beer guy,

01:07:29.700 but you can,

01:07:30.240 you can open it up and find some sort of craft brew and then Coors Light

01:07:33.360 because you got to have range.

01:07:35.240 Everybody likes a connoisseur.

01:07:36.600 So let me ask this on,

01:07:38.140 on that point of,

01:07:39.140 you know,

01:07:39.680 connoisseur sophisticated,

01:07:42.080 blah,

01:07:42.240 blah,

01:07:42.360 blah.

01:07:43.440 We're talking about Christendom.

01:07:44.860 We're talking about building the walls of Christendom.

01:07:47.300 In what ways would this apply practically to the ways in which we build

01:07:51.460 Christendom?

01:07:52.060 um i mean in my mind i i think of things like i love some of our brothers who have really been

01:07:59.000 helpful in the high anglicanism camp in terms of informing liturgy yeah doug is a lot of some

01:08:04.320 bombs against the collars and the frilliness um you know i've also been in churches where it's

01:08:09.940 like the church is falling apart and it's like what do we need to do and they're like abs and

01:08:12.740 stoles yeah that's we need abs and stoles we don't have enough stoles frankincense before the

01:08:17.360 service burn it yeah yeah that would need a trumpet that would fix it that was shofar oh that's another

01:08:23.480 type of culture actually that's different okay you need to you need to you need to become a patron so

01:08:28.380 that you can gain access to the after hours where we tell the shofar story yeah the shofar after

01:08:32.680 revivalism yeah our jokes will make more sense yeah it's it's hilarious but so how does this

01:08:37.600 impact actual what we do when we're building christendom yeah that's really interesting

01:08:42.980 because the snob personality really does match up well 0.56

01:08:46.080 with these sorts of cowards that we were talking about. 1.00

01:08:49.020 I'm sorry, the careful Christians or whatever. 1.00

01:08:51.120 Cowards. 1.00

01:08:51.540 You know, when you're building a community, 0.99

01:08:53.520 when you're building a community,

01:08:54.600 you're going to have so many different types of people

01:08:58.160 and a good leader,

01:08:59.880 because that's what we're talking about really,

01:09:01.480 or leaders, I mean, people with influence.

01:09:03.740 Yeah, we want men to exercise whatever influence they have,

01:09:06.740 men and women, to be able to do so with excellence.

01:09:09.520 Yes.

01:09:09.820 And everybody has some influence somewhere.

01:09:11.620 Absolutely.

01:09:12.060 It sounds like Brian really wants to talk about this. 1.00

01:09:14.560 You know, in these careful Christians, they are kind of like the snobs because they're 1.00

01:09:18.460 more concerned about their own opinion and what they, I mean, what people think about 1.00

01:09:23.180 them and like, oh, I've had this 21 year Glenn Fittick Reserva cast.

01:09:27.460 It's better.

01:09:28.180 Have you ever had a whiskey over $200?

01:09:30.620 Oh, you haven't.

01:09:31.980 Pee on.

01:09:32.880 Well, isn't that, I mean, that's the whole thing is like recently, like David French

01:09:35.940 and Russell Moore, Tim Keller.

01:09:38.320 the reality is they're adjacent to the political cultural elites yes and so like russell moore is

01:09:45.080 like well yes i was in my book club with francis collins who by the way is always the smartest room

01:09:50.820 smartest man in the room which is already very smart by the way and it's just like wow it just

01:09:56.380 reeks of elitism um i think for them there is a real temptation like you're saying to to reach

01:10:03.520 for that echelon of stuff and thinking and in that way of thinking like well being against lgbt

01:10:09.680 community that's bigoted and hateful yeah that's what those and this is why i think fundamentally 0.98

01:10:14.660 they're always like celebrating you know ray ortland celebrating the death of the bible belt

01:10:18.820 because what they really hate is you know my people in alabama who are funny baptists who 0.96

01:10:25.620 love the lord and are unafraid to say the bible's the word of god and homosexuality is wrong that's 0.99

01:10:30.400 gay and I hate it. Yeah, and they're not sophisticated 1.00

01:10:32.500 when they say it, but they're more right

01:10:34.380 than the elites are. They laugh when we play the clip.

01:10:36.700 That's right. They don't say, wow, they're harming their witness.

01:10:38.520 Mister, should I call you mister? Why are you

01:10:40.580 gay? They're not like, wow, they just really harmed their witness 1.00

01:10:42.640 with that. We just harmed our witness. So when you

01:10:44.420 look at the cultural elites,

01:10:46.580 the snobs, what are they trying to do?

01:10:48.340 They're trying to discourage the regular person.

01:10:50.900 That is right. The regular Christian. 1.00

01:10:52.620 Hey, I was in this special thing. I'm in 0.65

01:10:54.500 this special club with special knowledge.

01:10:56.640 You know, almost like, oh man, narcissism.

01:10:58.440 Anyway. 1.00

01:10:58.820 Are you one of those dumb people that doesn't want to get vaxxed? 1.00

01:11:01.200 Oh, you don't agree with me. 1.00

01:11:02.920 Oh, well, I'm with these really smart people, so you're really stupid, and so you're wrong. 1.00

01:11:07.000 Smartest guy in the room is saying to get vaxxed, so easily. 1.00

01:11:10.000 What's wrong with you?

01:11:10.500 You know what's crazy?

01:11:11.700 Jesus, the God-man, he came and he dwelt with the lowly.

01:11:16.960 He's like, hey, fisherman, come and join me.

01:11:19.000 Come follow me.

01:11:20.360 You want to be apostles?

01:11:21.140 Yeah, you're going to sit on 12 thrones.

01:11:24.100 Do you want us to build the cathedral of Christendom, the real one,

01:11:27.860 the temple the new jerusalem on you and he's like uh hang on let me put my nets down here i gotta

01:11:33.040 figure out what what'd you say again that's not actually yeah i mean they're actually reviled by

01:11:38.220 the pharisees these men were not educated in our academia yeah yeah so so jesus was a man

01:11:43.680 with range he was a connoisseur because he's the creator of everything yeah so he was like hey i'm

01:11:48.660 gonna tell you guys how to fish throw your net on the other side of the boat yeah i'm gonna cook

01:11:52.840 fish for you by the way oh and pharisees with your big thoughts here how's this for a real

01:11:57.600 you know stumper so good i want to ask one question uh something that happened this week

01:12:03.900 um i know we're we're getting to that point in this show but we've seen a lot of stuff coming

01:12:08.980 out from brian you were on a you were photoshopped into this thing with beth moore and um that wasn't

01:12:13.920 photoshop karen swallows prior i'm actually doing that conference okay you and michael foster then

01:12:18.660 doing a conference with us yes and what's interesting we're talking about cowardice but

01:12:22.660 maybe this is a good way to to start wrapping things up it was all about like teaching christians

01:12:27.120 how to properly engage with the culture.

01:12:31.620 On social media.

01:12:32.580 On social media.

01:12:33.460 Social media with grace.

01:12:34.640 But to me, this all reeks of propagandizing

01:12:38.220 and discouraging the church. 0.99

01:12:40.000 Like they're specifically finding the gayest dudes 0.94

01:12:42.520 they can find to speak in these videos.

01:12:44.500 And they are talking to people like us.

01:12:46.720 And they're saying, hey, take your toxic masculinity

01:12:49.620 and your firm speech and your truth.

01:12:51.620 And you know, let's talk about ways

01:12:53.740 that we can interact with a culture

01:12:55.080 that doesn't harm our witness, Dan.

01:12:56.500 and then I touch your shoulder.

01:12:59.040 You know,

01:12:59.660 you didn't touch my shoulder.

01:13:00.560 And here's the litmus test for me

01:13:02.040 that kind of covers a lot of these, 1.00

01:13:03.420 a lot of these cowardly, careful Christians 0.98

01:13:05.600 is that if you start with the presupposition 1.00

01:13:08.440 that the cultural moment you're living in

01:13:10.460 is radically anti-Christ.

01:13:12.580 So, I mean, if you're in a culture

01:13:14.160 where you're in the high middle ages

01:13:16.080 and there's Christianity in the air

01:13:18.040 and everybody's Christian,

01:13:19.260 but let's say you're not in that,

01:13:20.560 you're in our culture

01:13:21.340 where the culture in the air

01:13:23.240 is radically anti-Christ.

01:13:24.760 It hates God. 0.80

01:13:25.720 It hates everything. 0.99

01:13:26.500 It believes that men can menstruate and all sorts of things like that.

01:13:29.940 If in that culture, you are a Christian leader who is very popular and has a large platform

01:13:34.420 and you would get regularly invited to speak on CNN, MSNBC, you would be regularly invited

01:13:42.220 to speak at seminars and that sort of thing and do think pieces for the Washington Post

01:13:47.520 or whatever like that, stuff like that. 0.97

01:13:49.660 I would almost guarantee based on that single variable that you are probably a coward, that 1.00

01:13:55.140 You are probably a careful, cowardly Christian because just to say normal, sane Christian 1.00

01:14:00.400 things about almost any issue that is at stake in the air right now, and to even do it in 0.99

01:14:06.380 a really respectful and kind way.

01:14:08.040 Just like read a verse out of the Bible. 1.00

01:14:09.640 Just to be like, no, actually, of course we shouldn't be allowing gay people to adopt. 1.00

01:14:14.660 That's child abuse. 1.00

01:14:16.020 Yeah.

01:14:16.180 Even, even Doug Wilson recently, like he'll post on like Saturday night going into Sunday

01:14:20.320 morning and he's like, pastors preach in such a way that you will find yourself on an FBI

01:14:25.120 watch list by monday yeah people didn't like that tweet no they didn't because here's what they

01:14:30.720 thought they thought and a lot of the careful christians they thought doug wilson is being

01:14:34.420 overly inflammatory his point was actually that if you just say soberly and calmly and respectfully

01:14:39.460 say true things about the most mundane of subjects our culture is so insane and idolatrous that you'll

01:14:45.500 end up on a watch list yeah he wasn't saying go and you know preach about how the elites are

01:14:50.620 drinking the blood of infants for the adrenal glands like he wasn't he wasn't doing that crazy

01:14:55.780 meeting a different story for a different day just just pastors end up in some interesting meetings

01:15:00.260 after hours after hours yeah you could say something like i don't know uh they exchanged

01:15:05.340 relations that are normal natural yeah natural and you know woman for woman and god gave them

01:15:10.260 up to a debased mind yeah even this is how i know that our culture is really bad is that even the 0.97

01:15:15.120 women are having gay sex that's romans one i mean it's just literally romans one so so wrapping up 0.99

01:15:20.600 this episode you guys you guys okay if i land this plane oh yeah here okay bring it in here's 0.99

01:15:25.600 here's what we're saying we're saying that bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited

01:15:29.680 by cowards in the words of like michael scott the most winsome brian sauvet charles spurgeon

01:15:35.580 as spurgeon said bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards and i want to

01:15:42.660 reiterate this quote that dan read at the beginning desperate times call for faithful men and not

01:15:46.720 careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men,

01:15:51.520 lauding them for their courage. Here's the thing, men and women of God, you will end up

01:15:55.760 saying the wrong thing at certain times. You might take the stand in an imperfect way.

01:16:01.000 You might get some issues wrong here or there. You might have to repent along the way occasionally,

01:16:05.900 but far better to actually throw yourself into the breach where the enemy is actually attacking

01:16:10.400 and take a stand there on the word of God and on the principles that the word of God would

01:16:14.100 establish in our cultural moment than to be a careful coward who stands back and waits for the

01:16:20.340 perfect moment to jump in what will happen if you do that is you'll become like the meme of the the

01:16:26.200 hill where they're like it's too early to attack to to defend that hill no one's really attacking

01:16:31.040 that hill and then like well only a minority of people are really attacking that hill and then

01:16:35.320 they're like well you know whether that hill is worth defending is really under debate and then

01:16:40.380 later it's just like that hill's it's too late to defend that hill that hill's already taken

01:16:44.080 There's never a time to fight.

01:16:45.200 There's never a time to fight.

01:16:47.240 If you adopt this careful, nuanced, winsome, obsessed, really, I want to be thought of

01:16:53.380 as respectable by this culture, then you will lose every time.

01:16:57.140 And here's why.

01:16:57.680 Our culture is radically unrespectable.

01:17:00.000 Our culture is not respectable. 0.55

01:17:01.540 They do not know what it means to be respectable or honorable.

01:17:04.540 And so here's what you need to steal your spine to be ready to do.

01:17:07.080 You need to be ready to be laughed at.

01:17:08.720 You need to love it when people actually revile you, provided you're being reviled for the

01:17:13.580 name of Christ.

01:17:14.080 When people revile you, you should open the best bottle of wine you have in the house

01:17:18.000 for dinner that night and say, babe, we're celebrating tonight because we actually hit

01:17:23.140 the target today. 0.99

01:17:24.380 And I'm not talking about being a jerk. 0.93

01:17:26.080 I'm talking about just saying sober, sane things out loud today. 0.95

01:17:29.640 So if we're to build the next Christendom, the new Christendom, if our cathedral is to 0.95

01:17:34.280 go up, it certainly will not go up at the hands of cowards.

01:17:38.040 It certainly will not go up at the hands of careful men because careful men are far too 0.99

01:17:42.760 concerned with gaining power in the shanty towns that are already there. So thanks for listening 1.00

01:17:47.720 to this episode of the King's Hall podcast. I hope that you've enjoyed it, that it's helped you.

01:17:53.080 And we hope to see you in the after hours in a few moments here. God bless you. May he be with

01:17:58.020 you. May his face shine upon you. And remember, Festin Alente, make haste slowly. Don't try to

01:18:03.600 go too quick. Aim for that 50 year view. We'll see you next time.

01:18:12.760 well in case you didn't know we have another king's hall show called the after hours and

01:18:20.060 it's available only to our patrons we have a great time in the after hours i play hype songs

01:18:24.940 which brian loves sometimes we even talk about brian's cut we talk about recent news on x and

01:18:29.380 answer listener questions overall it's a great time so i'd encourage you to head over to patreon.com

01:18:35.480 slash the king's hall if you'd like to support the show and get some extra content

01:18:40.020 Thank you.

The King's Hall - April 15, 2022

Careful Christianity

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