The King's Hall - July 08, 2022


For City Fathers: Loving Your People & Place

Mentioned
For City Fathers: Towards a Christian Political Theology For City Fathers: Defending the Cultus

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 14 minutes

Words per minute

181.65

Word count

13,585

Sentence count

866

Harmful content

Misogyny

10

sentences flagged

Toxicity

48

sentences flagged

Hate speech

111

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hey guys, Brian here with a big announcement from New Christendom Press.
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00:00:08.300 It's called The Longhouse, How Feminism Conquered the West and Made Us All Miserable.
00:00:13.400 And in it, Eric and I take you through the dark history of feminism,
00:00:17.240 what it's done to everything from politics to church life to the economy,
00:00:21.220 and what to do about it.
00:00:23.040 Pre-order it today at newchristendompress.com slash longhouse.
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00:00:35.860 Give me Scotland or I die.
00:00:39.000 John Knox.
00:00:41.860 Founder of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland,
00:00:44.700 John Knox was a pastor, writer, and Reformed theologian
00:00:48.020 who led the way for the Reformation in 16th century Scotland.
00:00:51.760 But it wasn't easy.
00:00:53.440 His life would be one full of exile, prison, and other trials.
00:00:57.140 Educated at the University of St. Andrews,
00:00:59.720 Knox became deeply involved in the movement to reform the Scottish Church.
00:01:03.980 Rising to great authority in the Church of England,
00:01:05.980 he was pivotal in reforming the text of the Book of Common Prayer within the Church of England.
00:01:10.520 But when Mary I, Bloody Mary, ascended to the throne of England
00:01:14.620 and promptly re-established the Catholic faith in the land,
00:01:18.520 Knox was compelled to resign from his position of leadership
00:01:21.360 and even flee the country. For a time, he lived in Geneva, where he learned more about the Reformed
00:01:27.480 theology and Presbyterian polity of John Calvin. Out of this experience in Calvin's Geneva,
00:01:33.680 Knox would go on to write the liturgical forms ultimately adopted by the Reformed Church in
00:01:38.400 Scotland. From Geneva, Knox moved through Frankfurt, but ultimately couldn't resist the
00:01:43.300 pull of his beloved Scotland, to which he ultimately returned, though his return was not
00:01:48.200 entirely peaceful. The Protestant Reformation he led in Scotland was seen as revolutionary,
00:01:54.100 and Knox was certainly not a winsome nuancer. One of his publications, An Attack on the Rule
00:01:59.800 of Women in the Civil Sphere, was entitled The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the 0.67
00:02:04.900 Monstrous Regiment of Women. Yeah, not exactly a page out of How to Win Friends and Influence 0.80
00:02:09.940 People. Out of his conflict with what Knox saw as wicked and tyrannical rule he compared living
00:02:15.600 under Mary's reign to Paul's living under Nero, came some of the sharpest work on proper resistance
00:02:21.180 to tyrannical civil rule to come out of this period. Though many view Knox as a kind of brash
00:02:26.620 firebrand, it was ultimately his love for the Scottish people which led him to his passionate
00:02:32.540 defense of the people from rulers who abused and lorded it over their subjects. He was tenacious
00:02:38.380 in his opposition to anything which would harm his Scottish brethren. Upon his death, James
00:02:43.780 Douglas, 4th Earl of Morton and newly elected Regent of Scotland, is said to have pronounced
00:02:49.440 over John's grave, here lies one who never feared any flesh. John knew what it was to love his people,
00:02:56.200 to love his place. A man of passionate prayer, Bloody Mary reportedly said, I fear the prayers
00:03:02.620 of John Knox more than all the assembled armies of Europe. She knew that this man of God was
00:03:07.820 praying down her wicked throne and doing so not out of blind hatred of his foes, but for the love
00:03:13.760 of the Scottish people. The King's Hall podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well
00:03:20.900 and win the world. Well, welcome back everyone to the King's Hall podcast. I'm Brian Sauve,
00:03:30.940 joined as usual by a pair of troublemakers. Dan, Eric, tell the people hi. Hello.
00:03:37.940 Hello, Dan. Hello, Brian. I can't believe I've been accused of being a troublemaker,
00:03:41.240 though i'm sorry uh the evidence is in dan sorry what i meant is that eric was a troublemaker and
00:03:47.040 that you were very nuanced you were a winsome nuance bro that's an insult by the way actually
00:03:53.120 i picked up on that go back to the i'll go back you're a troublemaker too well welcome back here
00:03:58.180 we are in part two actually of our uh little mini series here in the middle of episode or sorry of
00:04:06.360 season one, talking about godly city fathers. We're talking about Christian political governance.
00:04:14.300 We're talking about a vision for a Christian political theology, which seems important,
00:04:21.460 right? In some of the previous episodes, we talked about what it would look like to wrest back a
00:04:26.960 truly political and Christian life from all of the nonsense that is going on here. We've talked 0.97
00:04:33.480 about some of the things that won't do the trick in reclaiming the land, things like cuckold
00:04:37.820 conservatism, Christless conservatism. We need something deeper than that. And so in last
00:04:44.840 episode, we started part one here on Christian political theory, and we gave 12 theses on
00:04:51.200 Christian rule. We got through the first four of them before we realized that since this was an
00:04:56.920 outline that I, Brian Sauve, wrote, it was going to take six to 10 episodes to get through. Your
00:05:02.400 thoughts gentlemen it kind of reminds me of uh there was a joke a few years back and they said
00:05:06.880 yeah we found a new napkin that tolkien had written on and it was another of the stories
00:05:13.960 from lord of the rings and they said peter jackson will be making a 15-part miniseries
00:05:17.880 from the remnants of the napkin that's sort of what your outline is brian
00:05:22.900 yeah so it's a comparison to tolkien so thank you eric actually i'm very flattered you know
00:05:28.000 Exactly, you should be.
00:05:29.120 One of my least favorite sins when it comes to communicating is loquacity, verbosity.
00:05:35.980 Hydrocoptic Marzal veins, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar wane shaft.
00:05:40.660 Using too many words when a few would suffice, going on and on and on in a rambling, unnecessarily lengthy.
00:05:49.740 Prefamulated amulite, surmounted by a malleable logarithmic casing.
00:05:53.800 Discourse and diatribe upon subjects which could have been handled in short manner.
00:05:58.000 I feel like you're describing Dan's method of communication.
00:06:00.480 Yeah, that's, I'm glad you picked up on that.
00:06:03.880 Dan's face.
00:06:04.640 Like when in this episode, in the intro, and I said, say hi to the listeners, and Dan said, hi.
00:06:09.920 Yeah, that's verbosity, I think is a good word for it.
00:06:13.440 Yeah, the thing is, is I try to get a word in every once in a while, but you two, both of you, man, a living.
00:06:19.400 It's not me, it's Brian.
00:06:20.580 Yeah, it's definitely not you, Eric.
00:06:22.040 It's me.
00:06:23.020 So in this episode, to get us back on track here, because, you know, we do have some material to get through.
00:06:27.180 Again, I did write the outline. We're going to continue in our look at these 12 theses on
00:06:32.360 Christian rule, and we'll be picking up at number five. Let me just read them all for you again to 0.83
00:06:37.320 refresh your memory, and then we'll pick back up at number five. So the first thesis is that the
00:06:42.600 political realm is one ordained by God, and therefore civil rule, though often corrupted
00:06:47.840 by man's sin into an evil, is a positive good. Number two, it is impossible to get a godly civil
00:06:54.420 government out of a godless people. Number three, godly city fathers are to rule with respect to
00:07:00.740 God's objective standards, not man's subjective inclinations. Number four, godly city fathers
00:07:07.080 are to be just that, fathers, not mothers. And then all the feminists jumped off the train, 1.00
00:07:12.100 and we continued. We are feminists. They haven't been on the train. They've been run over. They've 1.00
00:07:16.080 been gone for a while. Let's be honest. So number five, and this is where we're getting a new
00:07:20.100 territory for this episode. We're saying because we love our neighbors, we ought to desire
00:07:25.440 Christians and not pagans to rule over them. Number six, godly city fathers know that their
00:07:31.240 authority is not an unlimited authority. Number seven, godly city fathers must love their place
00:07:37.500 and their people. Number eight, godly city fathers rule with explicit awareness of the
00:07:42.700 covenantal nature of their office. Number nine, godly city fathers are to be defenders of the
00:07:49.460 Christian cultists. Number 10, godly city fathers are to uphold the principles of localism and 0.96
00:07:56.440 subsidiarity. Number 11, Christians should live truly political lives as the Greeks defined it,
00:08:03.160 meaning a life enmeshed in the affairs of the polis in a way that contributes to the good of
00:08:08.140 his neighbor rather than lives of barbarism. And then finally, number 12, godly city fathers are
00:08:15.120 to know what is in their sphere of authority and possibly even more importantly what is not it's a
00:08:21.100 beautiful list that's 12 you read them all just out of breath from reading them all that's why i
00:08:25.520 paused so we're picking up today gentlemen in number five where we said that because we love
00:08:30.920 our neighbors we we should want christians to be the ones ruling over them not pagans why do we
00:08:38.300 need to say this what do you think i mean i wrote that thesis do you agree with it i suppose
00:08:44.500 What do you think the listeners need to know there?
00:09:14.500 Yeah, I absolutely agree with it.
00:09:28.140 I think one of the reasons it needs to be stated is because we have so many, as I think I mentioned last time, Gashmew saith it. 0.98
00:09:34.460 We have so many people within the quote-unquote Christian camp, the David Frenches of the world, who are trying to discourage Christians and Christian rebuilding of Christendom, civil government, etc.
00:09:44.500 So you have people like David French saying that LGBT story time at the library is a gift of freedom.
00:09:49.860 Wow. 0.95
00:09:50.520 And we would just say, no, you're being utterly insane. 0.94
00:09:53.260 It's not a gift of freedom to be promoting death.
00:09:55.820 And so really, we do actually, I think this is true with a lot of these, Brian, that you have to state what is plain and obvious.
00:10:02.600 Yeah. 0.97
00:10:03.220 We can't tell who's a man and who's a woman. 1.00
00:10:06.240 And so the real question is, we're saying that Christians would rule better than non-Christians. 0.99
00:10:13.360 Yeah. 0.99
00:10:14.020 That's the basic claim.
00:10:15.500 Yes. 1.00
00:10:16.180 I can think of a number of places, Dan, in Proverbs where that would be true, but why do you think it's true that Christians make better rulers than wicked men?
00:10:24.240 Well, it kind of goes back to Thesis 3 that said, godly city fathers are to rule with respect to God's objective standards, not man's subjective inclinations. 0.72
00:10:35.220 And if you have pagans ruling over people, then what standard do they have by which to rule?
00:10:44.040 Well, it's going to be something other than God's objective standard, according to his law.
00:10:49.360 Which gets back to the first portion of our thesis here, because we love our neighbors.
00:10:55.500 And the love of neighbor being one of the pillars of the law.
00:10:59.360 Yeah, the way of summing up the whole law.
00:11:00.580 Yeah, the way of summing up the whole law is outlined throughout the revealed character of God through his law, throughout the scriptures. And so just rule by Christians, according to the objective standard of God, should cause human flourishing. It should cause joy, like we had said in the last episode, like a freshly mown field that had just rained or whatever the beautiful that I'm butchering. 0.93
00:11:29.820 Oh, you're right. It's like the dew that comes down and cools the grass.
00:11:33.820 Yeah, exactly.
00:11:35.200 Proverbs 29.2, Dan says, when the righteous increase, the people rejoice, but when the wicked rule, the people groan. 0.94
00:11:41.180 Yeah, and if you've been paying attention at all to our cold opens, you would have a good picture of what these absolutely pagan nations will do to their people, especially in regards to love of neighbor. 0.95
00:11:54.300 The Aztecs, Mao's China, places like that. We could find example after example after example of pagan nations and how how they break the law of loving neighbor as themselves. 0.95
00:12:07.920 Yeah, essentially to the point of massacring their own people in order to attain their means or even in our current situation, dare I say, with everybody's budgets getting quite a bit tighter because of inflation, which is theft due to radical spending and overreach from the government not loving their neighbor because people are hurting. 0.97
00:12:29.160 There was just a study that came out that revealed that people have less money in their bank account now than they did last year.
00:12:36.480 And it was by a substantial margin.
00:12:38.320 I don't remember the numbers, so I'm not going to say.
00:12:40.480 But it was shocking how much less money people had in their bank accounts than they did last year.
00:12:46.580 The third and fourth month, March and April this year, I believe, were the two highest months on record in credit card spending.
00:12:55.080 Oh, wow.
00:12:55.640 And so you're starting to see, and this is 2022, year of our Lord, how the effects of pagan leaders, pagan rulers who do not love their neighbor, who do not have an objective standard, by doing something simple, and quite honestly, it seems innocent in a way because we've become used to inflationary spending of 2% or 3% a year, to now people can't buy food.
00:13:23.760 And you're going to see issues with housing and with continuing with energy costs.
00:13:29.340 All of that, all that rambling rant to say that pagans, when they rule, do not cause a love of neighbor.
00:13:39.720 For the project of this season to be successful, the project of seeing a new Christendom built,
00:13:44.900 there will need to be thousands and thousands of Christian men and women who are equipped to stand for the truth of scripture
00:13:50.320 against the errors of both the liberal church and the pagan culture.
00:13:55.200 This is one reason we're so glad to be partnering with our sponsor for this season,
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00:14:45.100 They don't cause human flourishing.
00:14:46.640 They do not cause human flourishing because the cost, the cost will be then.
00:14:50.320 is that fewer children will be born, that there will be an increase in poverty and in overall quality of life and in human flourishing.
00:15:03.480 I think the Proverbs say the glory of a king is his people, is the people too.
00:15:07.680 So when you talk about dwindling populations or populations that are being conquered through immigration and things like that,
00:15:12.680 you end up basically bringing a new culture and essentially colonizing a land through hostile 0.99
00:15:20.780 immigration, which you see in places like Europe with Muslim immigration. All of these things 1.00
00:15:26.820 essentially undermine one of the key arguments I think I hear the most when Christians are 0.84
00:15:32.880 promoting Christian political disengagement is, well, we're supposed to just worry about 0.50
00:15:38.700 loving our neighbors. Quit being so politically active. Quit being so politically abrasive. Quit 0.83
00:15:44.400 being so politically partisan. Just focus on loving your neighbor. And we're actually saying
00:15:51.140 because we love our neighbors, we want them to be on the best side, maybe, ruled by a wise,
00:15:59.020 godly Christian. And on the second tier, if we can't get that, at least ruled by the least 1.00
00:16:04.780 foolish person running for office. Really is a love of neighbor issue. Yeah, it really is. And 0.96
00:16:10.660 it's interesting in the last couple of years, because you've heard love of neighbor a lot,
00:16:14.040 but you haven't heard it clearly defined. Right. Right. So we would say, well, you have to define
00:16:18.920 God the way God does according to his law. And I think the other point to be made here is we
00:16:25.160 seek to love our neighbors. It's something that we'll get into later, but does the government
00:16:30.800 run by pagans, which are a large central
00:16:32.980 state, just, you know, Dan,
00:16:34.980 you're saying pretty much the same thing, but
00:16:36.920 does it have a good track record? Yeah.
00:16:39.440 Like, has it been doing a good job
00:16:40.960 just in the last two years? And what does
00:16:42.400 the government do for the most part 1.00
00:16:45.040 when it's run by pagans? There's 0.98
00:16:46.820 inflationary theft, they're shutting down small businesses,
00:16:49.440 there's killing livelihoods,
00:16:50.900 there's forcing, you know, 0.98
00:16:53.540 experimental things in people's bodies,
00:16:55.120 etc. Yeah. Steal, kill, and destroy.
00:16:57.140 We could actually just point to Scripture and say 0.99
00:16:58.980 that is not love to neighbor.
00:17:00.800 That's right.
00:17:01.380 To be doing that.
00:17:02.400 So I have a question for you guys.
00:17:04.260 What do you think about this quote that is often attributed to Martin Luther?
00:17:07.280 It's actually not something Luther said, but the apocryphal Luther said, quote, 0.97
00:17:12.080 I'd rather be ruled by a wise Turk than by a foolish Christian. 0.98
00:17:16.200 Your thoughts? 1.00
00:17:17.460 This was, who said it?
00:17:19.100 Supposedly Martin Luther, but it wasn't really Luther.
00:17:21.220 It was someone else.
00:17:22.600 Yeah, I think it depends. 1.00
00:17:24.400 Like the assumption is that the Turk is going to be wise. 1.00
00:17:27.980 Yeah. 1.00
00:17:28.440 I mean, just look at, you know, say Muslim today.
00:17:30.460 Yeah. Would I want to be ruled by a quote unquote wise Muslim? Well, does that mean we're living in Sharia law? Is that really wisdom? Yeah. My answer would be no. Right. And there's a few there's a there's a kind of it's such a it's such a short sentence, but it's so loaded. What is wisdom? It sounds like something David French would say, actually. I think Denny Burke claimed it was one of his favorite Luther quotes. 1.00
00:17:56.220 That makes sense.
00:17:57.340 And then he found out that it wasn't.
00:18:00.840 And Burke wrote an article about this when Mitt Romney was running for president about why it was permissible to vote for a Mormon.
00:18:08.940 And then everything changed with Orange Man. 0.81
00:18:11.660 Exactly.
00:18:12.340 All of a sudden we're like, no, no, no.
00:18:13.780 He must be qualified to be a Christian pastor.
00:18:16.700 Oh, boy.
00:18:17.080 Exactly. 1.00
00:18:18.000 I guess, I mean, would you say that Joe Biden is a foolish Christian? 1.00
00:18:23.460 He's a foolish pagan. 1.00
00:18:24.520 Yeah, I think he's even worse. 1.00
00:18:25.780 I think he's a false professor who ought to be put under church discipline.
00:18:30.200 I guess, I don't know.
00:18:33.140 That's what I'm going to say.
00:18:34.020 It seems like, why are elections always the worst options?
00:18:40.020 Between two bad choices.
00:18:41.980 It's like, come on, that's the best we have. 1.00
00:18:44.160 Is a wise Turk or a foolish Christian? 1.00
00:18:47.660 Come on. 1.00
00:18:48.300 That's exactly actually the point I think is important to see with these kind of quotes.
00:18:51.640 Because you get these quotes all the time.
00:18:52.920 is that it's like in Proverbs when Solomon says that it would be better to have a dinner of herbs
00:18:58.860 with peace in your home than a rich feast with strife. Contention, yeah. Right? But what Solomon
00:19:06.500 is not saying is that feasts are bad. Best of all would be a peaceful home and a feast. And that's
00:19:11.840 what people, I think, neglect in these kind of quotes is that like, well, sure, there's a few
00:19:16.460 issues. Like number one, if he was a wise Turk, it would mean that he was a bad Turk. And I think 0.70
00:19:20.880 luther's talking about muslims here but if he if he was a wise muslim he would be a and we measured 0.99
00:19:26.800 him as a wise muslim it would mean that he was a bad muslim because he didn't actually believe us
00:19:31.000 the the principles of islamic ethics yeah you know so that's an issue there but i would say
00:19:35.700 best of all why can't we actually go one step further and say well actually best of all would
00:19:40.980 be to be ruled by a wise christian like so often this is just people trying to justify saying 0.51
00:19:46.020 let's just be ruled by by Muslims and pagans you know as long as they're kind of close to a few
00:19:51.920 biblical principles well no like it's the same thing when Mitt Romney ran for president 0.99
00:19:57.440 similar similar sort of thing even though he's well anyway well I think never mind we won't go
00:20:05.200 down that the last the two episodes ago we talked about cuckold conservatism yeah he's like there you
00:20:09.520 go I think one of the things that brings up though in this discussion especially political
00:20:13.980 anytime we're talking politics today and we're connecting in any way to christian religion
00:20:19.520 you've got to be on guard for the fact that there are people who do not give a rip about christ
00:20:24.200 but they're going to use passages of scripture out of context to bludgeon people to do things
00:20:30.000 they want so when you know our friends at the cdc were meeting with pastors in america
00:20:35.460 they were in trying to push the vax they were telling them hey one thing we can do is just
00:20:40.700 Tell them it's love to neighbor.
00:20:41.760 Yeah, love to neighbor. 0.98
00:20:42.180 Take a lot of selfies with little hobbit masks on your face. 1.00
00:20:45.540 And literally, like they were giving them instruction on that. 0.96
00:20:48.100 Rick Warren was one of the big dogs in that conversation.
00:20:50.620 So they were actually training pastors, the state, the humanist state, God-hating state,
00:20:56.420 was training pastors how to take scripture and manipulate their people with it.
00:21:01.380 And our response to that should actually be, oh, you actually think scripture is an authority.
00:21:06.800 Well, let's go ahead and talk about scripture then.
00:21:08.800 Yeah, let's go back to Lex Rex and Samuel Rutherford. 0.87
00:21:11.420 Instead of you saying to me, hey, Christian, follow your rules, I'll say, oh, you think the state should follow Christian rules? 0.94
00:21:17.800 I've got a few of them for you. 1.00
00:21:19.260 Let's stop killing babies. 1.00
00:21:20.600 Let's stop allowing sodomy. 0.94
00:21:22.000 Let's stop allowing public blasphemy.
00:21:23.660 Let's go down the rule, down the list then, and say, if you want me to play by these rules, that's fine.
00:21:30.400 But guess what?
00:21:31.680 You're actually obligated to play by these rules, too.
00:21:34.780 Yeah, and it goes back to something, Brian, that we've been talking about.
00:21:36.740 Like, we're all going to be—every people is a worshiping people.
00:21:40.520 What binds us together is a religion.
00:21:43.040 So religion means to bind.
00:21:44.700 Yeah.
00:21:44.920 So every people is bound together by some religion.
00:21:47.220 The question is, which one?
00:21:49.040 Right?
00:21:49.300 Every people has a law.
00:21:51.180 The question is, which one?
00:21:52.840 Yeah.
00:21:53.080 So we're saying that God's laws are just, equitable.
00:21:56.640 They bring about human flourishing, and so we ought to promote those.
00:22:00.940 And you really only have one choice.
00:22:03.060 Secular humanism has bred death.
00:22:05.340 we see that with abortion yeah we see in the last two years yeah it's obvious so it's good and and
00:22:13.320 i think one way that we could apply this fifth thesis because what immediately comes to mind
00:22:18.700 for most people today in our current american context at least where we're dominated by national
00:22:24.060 politics and presidential elections is to think yeah we want a christian president and you're
00:22:29.880 like, absolutely, I do. I 100% do. I long for a wise Christian president. However, the much more
00:22:37.660 immediate application for us, and I think you guys would agree, is so Christians, go and conquer. 1.00
00:22:45.380 Go and conquer school boards. Go and conquer local government. Go and take some actually 1.00
00:22:51.300 strategic and winnable ground, because the reality is we've never, in a sense, there are some senses
00:22:58.980 in which we've never been a more politically disengaged people.
00:23:02.480 Well, this is actually one of the, I may have mentioned this in the last show,
00:23:05.300 Samuel Francis, Beautiful Losers, wrote an essay, I think, for Chronicles in the early 90s.
00:23:10.260 One of the things he mentions in there is that he's, this is back then,
00:23:13.880 that conservatives are obsessed with presidential elections,
00:23:16.500 but they really don't get engaged in anything grassroots outside of that.
00:23:20.340 Yeah.
00:23:20.640 And that's the key failure here.
00:23:22.040 Right.
00:23:22.380 When you look at Knox and the way that Presbyterianism was built up in Scotland,
00:23:26.640 the beauty of it was it was you know i think dan you mentioned this the beauty of it was ground up
00:23:31.640 right it wasn't that power came from the top down it was that we established things from the bottom
00:23:37.540 up strong households strong fathers and so as we look at the country the lazy work is to say well
00:23:42.960 let's just worry about who's the next president it's going to be yeah that man in today's world
00:23:46.580 actually has very little power but the hard work the thing that we really have to be doing is hey
00:23:51.720 in our church, how do we help grow strong fathers, strong households? And then those fathers, how do
00:23:57.760 we help them start businesses so that they have gravitas in their community and they have
00:24:01.720 auctoritas? They have an authority to speak to their fellow men. That's where polis and true
00:24:06.460 politics comes from. So we've got to start there. And I think you've got to recognize too, that's
00:24:11.900 going to be the long game. But yeah, absolutely. We've got to get involved in every single sphere,
00:24:16.760 every level of our local place first. That's right. Moving on to number six,
00:24:22.520 if I have your permission, gentlemen. Proceed. Proceed. Okay, excellent. We're also saying that
00:24:28.840 godly city fathers know that their authority is not an unlimited authority, right? That it's
00:24:35.880 essential if you're going to establish or develop a Christian political theory or a Christian
00:24:42.040 political theology, one of the bedrock, most obvious statements that you have to get behind
00:24:49.160 and things you have to understand in terms of principles is that, number one, there is no
00:24:54.200 authority that is beneath the authority of God that is truly unlimited. Only God's authority
00:25:00.620 is unlimited. And though God does establish real authorities in fathers and in pastors
00:25:05.500 and in city fathers, none of those authorities have unlimited authority.
00:25:13.000 And so, you know, I think, I think, guys, there's, there's some, again, this is such
00:25:17.420 an obvious one that you would think almost like it doesn't even need to be included.
00:25:21.240 But the last 24 months, well, it's weird though on this one, because if you talk to
00:25:26.200 the modern American status, chill, the sheeple of today, they'll be like, yeah, the government
00:25:33.120 has unlimited authority okay you read romans 13 you go well i conclude therefore that the
00:25:39.540 government can do whatever it wants and you have to obey yeah what's interesting is they don't
00:25:43.500 apply that to the authority of husbands over wives any other sphere they don't apply it hardly
00:25:47.880 anywhere right you know we live in a society where children do not obey parents nor do they have to 0.89
00:25:52.740 they're encouraged not to by the state yep um certainly women are not encouraged to obey 0.97
00:25:57.680 husbands, as Paul commands in Ephesians 5, they just want to—again, this is the beat 0.98
00:26:03.980 stick of a large job of the state.
00:26:05.720 That's what this is.
00:26:06.480 Yeah, it shows that what you're operating in is a statist, deified state paradigm, because
00:26:13.140 who has unlimited authority?
00:26:14.140 God does.
00:26:14.580 Well, whoever you're saying render unlimited authority to, that's who you're saying is
00:26:19.520 God.
00:26:20.340 Yeah, and part of God's hierarchical structure is that he has limitations, and he has boundaries,
00:26:25.520 and those are for our good.
00:26:26.380 I think it was Robert Frost who said, you know, fences make good neighbors.
00:26:30.460 You know, the point is, Dan, like if we live next to each other, a fence helps us establish clearly what is Dan's responsibility and what is mine.
00:26:38.040 And so that helps us live at peace in the polis.
00:26:41.420 Again, if you're going to be a well-ordered society, you've got to have clear distinctions about who's responsible for what.
00:26:46.740 And I would include in this discussion, one of the things wise city fathers have to know is, you know, where does the church begin and where do I end?
00:26:55.580 A lot of men today, especially in the Protestant tradition, we're sort of like, you know, no one will tell me, sola scriptura, I'm my own pope.
00:27:05.560 No one ever throughout history or now can tell me what I need to confess. 0.97
00:27:10.900 And that's actually foolish. 0.99
00:27:12.660 Absolutely foolish. 0.99
00:27:13.660 We have to submit to the authority. 0.99
00:27:15.680 Is he running for public office? 1.00
00:27:18.240 Sorry, the foolish Christian. 1.00
00:27:19.940 Foolish Christian. 1.00
00:27:20.620 Let me vote for him or not. 1.00
00:27:22.100 Wait, wait. 0.95
00:27:23.560 I take the Turk. 1.00
00:27:24.700 I did. Give me the Turk. 0.99
00:27:27.500 Yeah, what has happened to carry your fence metaphor a little bit further is that some of these spheres have essentially taken down the fence and abandoned portions of their property. 0.93
00:27:38.560 And the land-hungry neighbor has decided to upkeep that portion of their property.
00:27:46.120 And so here we are.
00:27:47.960 Yeah, and they upkeep it, but the tradeoff is functional slavery.
00:27:52.220 Yep.
00:27:52.420 And they're going to do a really bad job.
00:27:54.700 Yeah, and that's what we tend to see. I think one of the things that fathers have to do here on this is you could grow discouraged, or the one really opportunity we have with the federal government being so overgrown and so big and trying to interfere in everything is, as Dan said, they suck at it. 0.91
00:28:12.700 And so because they're terrible at it, we know that wherever we see authority being abdicated and somebody doing a really poor job, if we just start taking responsibility, the authority will flow to us.
00:28:25.060 So if you see your neighborhood run down, well, start taking responsibility for your neighborhood.
00:28:30.120 If you see that the families in your church are not practicing family worship, well, talk to the elders, talk to the pastor.
00:28:37.220 If you're one of those men, do something about it.
00:28:39.840 start ordering the chaos and a funny thing happens the authority starts flowing to you
00:28:45.420 yes and as you do that then you know you're starting businesses you're being a leader in
00:28:49.580 your church the people of your community will look to you yes as the one with authority to speak
00:28:55.480 it's so true because and the opposite happens is that when authorities abdicated
00:28:59.600 when responsibilities abdicated job of the state will come in and say oh no one's doing this i
00:29:06.100 guess i'm in charge of it i voted and i'm in charge of it that's how you get this endless
00:29:10.380 bureaucratic swell yeah where uh we we say we're a government of elected officials we're not
00:29:15.940 we're a government of a few elected officials in a vast unelected bureaucratic state that is has
00:29:21.480 essentially swollen to to take every area of responsibility but this is the key thing
00:29:26.140 every area of responsibility that was ceded to them by the people which are the kuiper quote
00:29:32.380 at the beginning of last episode where we talked about the one who's been lulled to sleep. He's
00:29:38.020 been lulled to sleep and allowed for his responsibilities to be overtaken. He's complicit
00:29:43.880 in the governmental swell. And so, yeah, I think absolutely the first thing we have to establish
00:29:50.720 here is that the authority of the government is not unlimited. And yet the only way to stop it
00:29:57.080 from becoming unlimited, since it's such a slippery idol, is for individuals from the
00:30:02.700 ground up to take responsibility for what is in their realm.
00:30:07.440 Yeah, that's right.
00:30:08.080 So if you're a father, you know, you're looking at your kids and you're saying, this is not
00:30:11.860 the responsibility of the state.
00:30:14.220 These children are my responsibility before God. 0.87
00:30:18.040 If, you know, it's an old body bacham, I think, but like what he said is, you know, the man 0.51
00:30:24.360 who asks, am I allowed to educate my own children?
00:30:27.540 Like, that's a man who doesn't know his own authority.
00:30:30.040 That's right.
00:30:30.680 You don't know the authority that God gave you.
00:30:33.220 You are responsible, Deuteronomy 6, Ephesians 5 and 6.
00:30:36.200 Yeah.
00:30:36.580 You're responsible for your children.
00:30:38.580 So when we talk about the limits of civil authority, and I would commend you a book like, this is an old book from the 1800s, James M. Wilson wrote an exposition of Romans 13, 1 through 7 called The Establishment and Limits of Civil Government, which is just a great primer.
00:30:54.380 It gets you out of our current moment and current politics.
00:30:57.080 and gives you a very biblically grounded look at like the edges here. Because it's clear, again,
00:31:03.800 we don't want to make the error of anarchists. It would say, well, civil government's completely
00:31:08.680 bad. It has no authority over me. I can do whatever I want. Get out of here, government.
00:31:13.260 It's actually not true. God has given the government, civil magistrates,
00:31:18.500 legitimate authorities in certain areas where you are to, quote, you know, believe what Paul says,
00:31:25.020 therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will
00:31:30.220 incur judgment. However, and this is the crux, when you understand Paul and Paul's understanding
00:31:39.420 of sin and righteousness, and then you try to say that he is in verse 2 in Romans 13 telling us
00:31:45.320 that whatever the government tells us to do, if we resist it, we'll incur judgment.
00:31:49.080 No, that statement right there automatically limits Paul's statement to saying,
00:31:55.440 when you resist the authority, doing what God said it is allowed to do.
00:32:00.060 That's right.
00:32:00.760 That's the key part that I think many Christians have been duped over today and bludgeoned over 0.86
00:32:05.820 the head with things like Romans 13. But obviously there's a line where when the civil magistrate
00:32:12.300 commands you to sin or participate in sin, you're not just allowed, you are obligated by God
00:32:19.360 to disobey. We have many examples of this in scripture. And a lot of people agree with that,
00:32:25.840 but then I think we should add another layer to that. Another principle that's often missed is
00:32:30.100 that when the state begins to decree arbitrarily and try to take authority in areas where it does
00:32:38.600 not have authority. Maybe it's not commanding you to sin, but Christians still, I believe, 0.99
00:32:45.280 have a responsibility to say, we won't participate in that. And the example, I think it was Pastor
00:32:51.300 Toby Sumter used during the scam pandemic. How many can I pile up? The fake scam plan pandemic.
00:32:59.680 When it happened, he said, what if your local mayor issues a decree and says, everybody,
00:33:06.020 before you go out of your house today, you have to jump on your right foot 45 times.
00:33:10.080 And if you don't jump on your right foot 45 times before you go out the door,
00:33:14.320 you know what? I'm sorry. We're going to have to arrest you. We're going to fine you
00:33:16.780 one month's wages. We're going to issue you a citation. It's like, is it a sin to jump up and
00:33:23.480 down 45 times on your right foot? Yeah, because that was the silly argument being made by a lot
00:33:28.320 of pastors. Well, they're not commanding us to sin. It's not a sin to wear a mask. 0.71
00:33:31.680 Every Tuesday, everyone must eat bug meat.
00:33:35.400 Yeah, is it a sin eat bug meat?
00:33:37.220 And it's like you realize the government going beyond their authority.
00:33:41.180 You start to realize that the additional principle you need is not just when they're commanding you to sin, do you resist, but you have legitimate grounds to resist the arbitrary exercise of authority.
00:33:53.120 And the thing is, like you said at the beginning, Eric, nobody will disagree with this when it comes to any other sphere.
00:34:00.080 If a father started issuing arbitrary abusive commands to his children and saying, children, you're not allowed to do this.
00:34:07.720 You have to jump up on, you know, started issuing those kinds of commands.
00:34:10.700 Or to his wife. 0.57
00:34:11.380 Or to his wife. 0.93
00:34:12.240 I mean, they don't even want to allow a husband to prefer what his wife wears. 0.94
00:34:15.900 Right.
00:34:16.920 So, yeah, they've defanged his authority.
00:34:18.840 That authority is almost nil.
00:34:20.460 I do want to make one other comment.
00:34:22.620 This is the other ditch. 0.88
00:34:24.380 But I think there's a lot of like Christian libertarian camp here where I hear, you know, the taxation is theft. 0.93
00:34:31.080 All taxation is theft.
00:34:32.760 Romans 13 is also clear that paying taxes, verse 6, because of this, you also pay taxes for the authorities or ministers of God attending to this very thing.
00:34:42.760 Pay to all what is owed to them taxes to whom taxes are owed.
00:34:46.780 Yeah, that's right.
00:34:47.260 Now, I'm not saying there, I believe there certainly are in America unjust taxes.
00:34:51.820 Yes.
00:34:52.560 Obviously.
00:34:53.720 But the principle of paying taxes is not in and of itself unjust.
00:34:58.500 No.
00:34:58.800 But you get a lot of the libertarian camp that it's like, well, the government can't ever tell me what to do ever, anytime, about anything.
00:35:06.280 Don't tread on me.
00:35:07.160 No step on snake.
00:35:08.540 The problem is it's like, look, if you were telling a woman who had been radically abused by her husband, Ephesians 5 says to submit to your husband, you're not telling her anything untrue.
00:35:22.300 But she has been set up by the sin of the authority to hear that as a curse.
00:35:28.320 And that's what's happened in America today.
00:35:29.900 That's what happens in statist governments.
00:35:32.060 If you went to communist China when people are eating the clay to try and survive, like in the cold open from part one of this episode or this topic, and said, Romans 13, they would be probably pretty prone to despise your instruction.
00:35:48.740 Yeah.
00:35:48.860 So what a lot of pastors today have made the error in, in the last couple years particularly, is in telling the battered wife to just submit to her ungodly husband in his battering, instead of saying, it's totally true, submission to the authorities is absolutely biblical, and we've got this every man a pope problem, we've got this libertarianism problem, but we need to recognize that one of the places that comes from is from the abusive husband of the state.
00:36:16.120 Well, can you imagine, for example, like if a husband was like forcing his wife to put a foreign substance through needle into her body and she was saying no?
00:36:25.440 What would the same Christian leaders say?
00:36:27.160 Well, I'm sorry, honey. 1.00
00:36:28.460 You have to submit to your husband.
00:36:30.300 I know we don't know what that substance is, but.
00:36:33.500 The studies aren't out yet, but in 75 years.
00:36:35.940 Gotta do it.
00:36:36.760 The husband's promised he's going to study.
00:36:38.620 Obey. 0.95
00:36:39.100 It's for grandma. 1.00
00:36:39.940 Obey, come on.
00:36:40.820 Do you love grandma?
00:36:42.600 Do you love grandma?
00:36:43.300 It's so wicked when you say it out loud.
00:36:46.120 The utter emotional manipulation.
00:36:48.640 Oh, it's heinous.
00:36:49.180 It's vile.
00:36:50.220 Yeah, I mean, it's straight from Saul Alinsky's, you know, Rules for Radicals. 0.89
00:36:54.620 It says something about making your opponent to live up to their own rules. 0.82
00:36:59.280 Yeah.
00:36:59.980 And so it's an obvious tactic.
00:37:02.100 Yeah, it is. 1.00
00:37:02.720 But for some reason, Christians are helpless against it. 0.94
00:37:07.660 Well, guilty people who have ceded their responsibility out of laziness, out of sin, out of sloth, are easy to manipulate through guilt. 0.71
00:37:16.260 Because they're wracked with guilt.
00:37:17.740 They know they're not doing their duties.
00:37:19.380 Yeah, and we've had generations of pastors in the pietism stuff telling them that the godly thing is to not care or be involved.
00:37:27.180 Right, because, oh, stop caring about earthly things.
00:37:29.980 Your treasure's in heaven.
00:37:32.060 You guys, we have this treasure in jars of clay.
00:37:34.000 It's all just jars of clay.
00:37:35.300 Well, I mean—
00:37:35.740 The body doesn't matter.
00:37:36.660 Think about the gospel coalition. The gospel spreads better in bread lines when the economy
00:37:42.260 has failed. And by the way, so let's kill the economy. I'm so glad that you said that, Eric,
00:37:47.560 because there is this thing that is true that gets used to manipulate people sinfully. And it's the
00:37:55.280 statement that the tree of Christianity is watered by the blood of the martyrs. Absolutely true. 0.99
00:38:01.100 That's absolutely been historically true.
00:38:03.580 However, this idea that Christianity spreads most easily under persecution is historically incorrect.
00:38:11.100 The goal that we should always desire to be persecuted?
00:38:13.680 Absolutely incorrect.
00:38:15.460 We actually—
00:38:16.920 It sounds like something Mao would have taught.
00:38:18.780 Right.
00:38:19.900 We've talked about Constantine in the cold opens in these episodes.
00:38:24.840 Did you just say Chad King?
00:38:26.460 I think that's the translation.
00:38:28.200 By the way, Christianity went from, I think it was under 10% for sure, and it might have been, I think it might have been under 2% on the chart in front of me, from the beginning of the 4th century, to something like 40 to 60% of the Roman Empire claiming Christ by 350.
00:38:45.500 Do you know what happened between that time?
00:38:47.460 Tell us, Brian, what happened.
00:38:49.560 Constantine's Edict of Milan.
00:38:51.380 This is why, if you read the Gospel Coalition, that was so bad for Christianity, because we need to be persecuted, Dan. 0.87
00:38:58.600 Well, because, oh, and then there was all this just cultural Christianity.
00:39:01.460 People were just professing Christ because it was politically expedient.
00:39:04.320 Yeah, absolutely.
00:39:04.900 Some of those Christians were not truly regenerate Christians. 0.87
00:39:07.400 However, this idea that Christianity spreads most rapidly, always under persecution, is a facile, historically inept lie.
00:39:15.160 It's just not true.
00:39:16.540 When you have godly city fathers, even city fathers like Constantine, there's a lot of
00:39:20.940 debate about him personally, whatever.
00:39:22.580 We can't see in his heart and know if he's regenerate. 0.66
00:39:24.920 But here you have a guy demonstrably who is privileging the Christian faith, a nursing
00:39:30.120 father, as Isaiah 49 would say, to the church in many ways.
00:39:34.160 And what was the result? 0.93
00:39:35.880 Christianity exploded. 0.91
00:39:37.680 You know, what's interesting is I believe it was the very next emperor after Constantine. 0.94
00:39:41.960 I can't recall.
00:39:43.220 Tim Keller.
00:39:44.960 Just kidding.
00:39:45.720 Is he running for president? 1.00
00:39:47.660 Is he a wise Turk or a foolish Christian? 1.00
00:39:49.860 I'm confused. 1.00
00:39:51.620 What was I going to say?
00:39:52.560 You're saying the next emperor.
00:39:53.560 The next emperor made Christianity the only legal religion in the Roman Empire.
00:40:00.080 And then look into the future for the next, like, I don't know, 1,100, 1,200, 1,300 years.
00:40:08.560 I'm just going to say that was a king move.
00:40:11.060 Boy, king move.
00:40:11.440 Or an emperor move.
00:40:12.500 You know what?
00:40:14.440 I think it's fine.
00:40:15.340 And we could give, obviously, any of these – the reason we're going so long on these episodes is because we could give a dissertation on any of these topics, I think, because they're all so foundational.
00:40:24.220 Brian could give a dissertation on any topic.
00:40:26.380 Am I right?
00:40:28.080 Am I right or am I left?
00:40:29.280 Okay.
00:40:29.860 But let's keep rolling here.
00:40:32.900 City fathers know their authority is not an unlimited authority.
00:40:35.420 It's a real one contra fever dream libertarianism, contra the anarchists.
00:40:41.680 understanding that a lot of those positions arose out of the abuse of an abusive state
00:40:47.140 but we need to hold the line and say no civil authority is from god it's a good thing when
00:40:53.000 it's exercised it's due on the grass when it's exercised in righteousness number seven though
00:40:58.260 now we're gonna we're gonna move into we're starting to get into the realm of uh kind of
00:41:03.780 like if you're gonna develop a wish list for where we're not trying to get a choice between a a foolish
00:41:10.420 christian and a wise turk now let's say what would a wise christian look like what would the ideal 0.83
00:41:15.540 look like and so number seven part of that ideal would be that godly city fathers must love their
00:41:23.360 place and their people if they are to rule well you won me i'm starting to get excited now and i
00:41:31.580 know nacho libri actually this is the you gotta be kidding me everything you just said is my
00:41:37.800 15th thing to do every day.
00:41:40.980 I love to talk about place.
00:41:43.260 And I know some people are going to be like,
00:41:45.040 they're about to go full blood and soil.
00:41:47.740 Now it's just about to be, you know,
00:41:49.420 they're probably going to be a bunch of transatlantic slave trade apologists next.
00:41:53.680 Natural affections, not gospel affections.
00:41:56.180 But here's the thing, guys.
00:41:57.280 Godly city fathers.
00:41:58.560 This is almost so obvious.
00:41:59.940 I don't know how it could be in dispute.
00:42:02.000 If you're to rule a place well,
00:42:03.280 if you're to be a good mayor or a good governor of a polis,
00:42:06.440 So you're going to be a good emperor, a good king.
00:42:08.380 It's like, how are you going to love your neighbor if you don't love the place where your neighbor is established and planted and is growing?
00:42:15.740 And if you don't love your people, if you don't say, if, you know, if I am appointed mayor of Ogden for a day and I go, you know what?
00:42:24.280 I'm pretty indifferent to these people.
00:42:27.360 You'd be a terrible mayor. 0.72
00:42:27.900 Fire me. 0.99
00:42:28.800 Get me out of here.
00:42:29.700 I should say, I love the people of Ogden.
00:42:32.940 I thought this place wasn't our home.
00:42:34.400 We were just a passing through.
00:42:35.580 I thought we were just pilgrims. 0.99
00:42:37.720 Pilgrims and Wanderers.
00:42:39.540 We're like Gandalf O'Loran, the gray wanderer, the gray pilgrim who threw the long age.
00:42:44.980 Never mind.
00:42:45.440 I'm sorry.
00:42:46.700 Godly city fathers. 0.99
00:42:47.680 Dorky. 0.99
00:42:48.300 Nerdified. 0.98
00:42:49.500 Ray can probably edit that out.
00:42:51.800 I don't know.
00:42:52.320 I don't know.
00:42:52.660 Ray, help me out here.
00:42:53.100 He's not going to edit that out, is he?
00:42:55.220 No.
00:42:55.320 Dang it. 1.00
00:42:56.080 Nerd! 0.99
00:42:58.300 And you don't. 0.99
00:42:58.920 I thought you had my back, Ray.
00:43:00.280 He's like, Dan pays me.
00:43:02.180 Dan pays me.
00:43:03.560 Not you, Brian.
00:43:04.480 I do pay him.
00:43:05.080 It is true. Dan is in charge of that. So give him a tip.
00:43:08.120 So a couple of places where I really discovered Love of Place.
00:43:13.780 Again, it's one of those areas where you get out of our insane moment and you start looking at what has human history been like throughout the ages.
00:43:22.480 I was reading Wendell Berry. Then I started reading Chris Wiley, which is like a gateway drug into the Aeneid and Homer.
00:43:31.040 Absolutely.
00:43:31.400 And then you find through Western culture and then even extending into Christendom, there really is a deep love for place and for belonging and for the land.
00:43:42.620 And when you look at even the promised land and what God has shown his people through the revelation of scripture, he promised them a land flowing with milk and honey, a land of their fathers that would be an inheritance for generations.
00:43:54.640 The biggest curse was belonging to no land.
00:43:56.860 Think about Cain.
00:43:58.300 Cain was cursed not simply by death,
00:44:00.180 but he was forced to wander the earth with no people in place.
00:44:02.760 That's a great point.
00:44:04.200 You know, Stephen Pressfield gates a fire.
00:44:06.280 A man without a city is no man at all.
00:44:08.740 A man who belongs to no people, has no cause, has no kingdom, 0.96
00:44:11.920 has no brotherhood. 1.00
00:44:13.200 It's a fate worse than death.
00:44:15.400 Wow.
00:44:16.060 Oh, man.
00:44:16.720 End the podcast.
00:44:17.340 I'm getting worked up right now.
00:44:20.060 I am feeling emotions welling in my soul,
00:44:23.720 akin to those that I imagine the writers of the Rohirrim felt
00:44:27.540 as King Theoden gave his speech on the fields of the Pelennon.
00:44:32.000 What a great speech.
00:44:33.300 No, but you're right, Eric.
00:44:34.980 Godly city fathers have to love their place and their people,
00:44:38.560 and this is one of those sins that the scriptures talk about certain sins 0.98
00:44:43.400 that make you worse than an unbeliever,
00:44:46.200 which is interesting because the scriptures are not particularly kind to unbelievers.
00:44:52.580 I mean, Paul says that they are, you know, walkers in darkness, passing their days in malice and envy, hating one another and being hated. 0.93
00:45:03.000 And then he goes on to say, oh, and by the way, if you don't provide for your own members of your own household, you've denied the faith and you are worse than an unbeliever. 0.55
00:45:14.560 Why?
00:45:15.460 Yeah, and he's talking about widows, so multi-generational care.
00:45:19.320 Yes.
00:45:19.640 You know, we have this whole concept that we owe our lineage nothing.
00:45:23.420 And again, you can follow a recent episode on the Hard Men podcast, plug for that.
00:45:27.280 Yeah, the Aeneid.
00:45:28.180 Yeah, the Aeneid.
00:45:29.940 The beautiful scene here is Aeneas fleeing Troy as it's burning.
00:45:35.760 And he's carrying Aeolus, his son, by the hand.
00:45:39.340 And he's got his father on his back.
00:45:41.240 And he said, this labor I will never tire of.
00:45:43.380 Unbelievable.
00:45:43.760 For I owe my son a kingdom.
00:45:46.760 Unbelievable.
00:45:47.200 And the painting that you shared with that episode.
00:45:49.640 And this is what Chris Wiley rightly points out.
00:45:53.060 That is pietas.
00:45:54.360 That's right.
00:45:54.800 Now, what's interesting, people say, well, you're talking about Rome.
00:45:57.200 Which is godly piety.
00:45:58.820 Yes.
00:45:59.120 Which is a concept the Christians filled out even more deeply, but they began with a Roman concept, and they filled it up to its flowering. 0.75
00:46:06.740 Well, and here's the problem is we say, oh, well, that's Rome. 0.88
00:46:09.660 You know, that's pagan Rome.
00:46:10.780 The problem is that pietas is really what you find in the Old Testament with Abraham. 0.73
00:46:16.460 That's right.
00:46:16.660 He leaves a people in place.
00:46:17.980 He sacrifices, gives all to lay the groundwork for his son who will build an empire in 400 or so years, and then you get Moses.
00:46:26.860 And so it's like this idea that we do have this natural inclination to love what God has ordered, blood, land, place.
00:46:36.420 And now we're being shamed to believe that if we love those things, you can think of the words bigot, racist, redneck, southerner.
00:46:45.800 I mean, it's absolutely facile to me, absolutely facile,
00:46:50.300 to make this kind of argument where you would say,
00:46:54.140 because of the work of Christ and the unifying blood of Christ,
00:46:57.500 there is neither barbarian, Scythian, slave-free, but Christ is in all and is all.
00:47:01.800 Absolutely true.
00:47:02.840 What Christ does is he breaks down the hostility between nations.
00:47:06.620 He doesn't break down the actual cultural distinctions.
00:47:09.200 He breaks down the hostility between the Greek and the Jew and the barbarian and the Scythian and the slave and the free.
00:47:13.340 He breaks those things down under the blood of Christ. He washes the hostility away.
00:47:17.620 But he doesn't homogenize. He doesn't wash away all distinctness. He doesn't wash away
00:47:22.540 all storge, we might say, which is a natural love. Paul even goes so far as to say that there is a
00:47:30.320 kind of sin that is called a storge. It means a lack of natural affection. And that is that you
00:47:36.360 don't even love what the pagans know to love. Like the one who denied the faith by not taking
00:47:41.420 care of his family, he is a storge. He has failed in his natural affection. Because even the natural 1.00
00:47:47.160 affection should have led you to your duty. If we understand things like Augustine's proper
00:47:52.420 ordering of loves, the ordo amore, if we understand that, then we understand that there is such thing
00:47:58.900 as a surpassing love that ought to eclipse all things. Christ said, unless a man hate his father,
00:48:05.060 he cannot love me. He cannot follow me. What does Christ mean? Does he mean the fifth commandment
00:48:10.080 his bunk. No, he means there is a surpassing affection which eclipses all others, and that
00:48:14.400 is your affection for God himself. But here's the paradox. When you get that right, when you
00:48:21.680 properly order your primal love, then you can properly love everything below. You can properly
00:48:26.320 love your father. You can properly love your people. You can properly love your place. And
00:48:31.180 you can look at somebody else doing that and a different people in place, and you can love that
00:48:35.320 they love their people in place without hostility.
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00:49:50.860 And so, for example, the continent of India.
00:49:54.580 Is India a continent?
00:49:56.640 No. 1.00
00:49:57.040 I feel stupid. I went to public school. 0.98
00:49:58.180 Asia. 0.97
00:49:58.720 If you go to the nation of India, let me put it that way.
00:50:01.980 You will find a nation with similar Christian demographics to the state of Utah, which means
00:50:06.820 that fewer than 2% of India worships Christ as Lord. Of course, the culture reflects that. 1.00
00:50:14.200 However, imagine 1,000 years in the future or 10,000 years in the future, whatever the Lord
00:50:19.560 appoints, when India bends the knee to Christ, when India is discipled and baptized and taught 0.93
00:50:25.760 to obey all that Christ commanded, as we obviously believe will happen because we are post-mill
00:50:29.880 and we love the Psalms and that kind of stuff. Imagine the kind of culture that will develop
00:50:35.680 around the worship of the one true and living God in a place like India. It's going to look
00:50:38.800 like the country. I mean, in the same way that good scotch is Scottish and it cannot otherwise 0.84
00:50:44.180 be. You cannot make scotch without Scotland, without the climate and the peat and the ground
00:50:51.860 and the rain and the grains that grow in the field. It's the dirt and the wind and the sea
00:50:58.740 tang. It's all of those things are in that cultural artifact that we call scotch whiskey.
00:51:05.760 Imagine Indian Christianity producing distinctly Indian Christian culture, and I will look at it, 1.00
00:51:14.640 or I won't because I won't be around. I'll look at it from the great cloud of witnesses,
00:51:18.380 and I won't be Indian, but I'll look on it and I'll say, glory to God for you and for all those
00:51:25.440 indian christians who loved what it meant to be indian and christian and their culture right so
00:51:32.000 when we say that city if you're to rule a people and you don't even get this this is the big e on
00:51:38.380 the eye chart right like if you can't read this then there's no way you're qualified to rule
00:51:43.620 yeah i mean summarizing it a good king would love his people and a bad king would despise his people
00:51:50.500 That's how obvious this is, right?
00:51:52.180 It's so obvious. 0.74
00:51:53.660 Cows also go moo.
00:51:55.140 I mean, that's where we're at culturally.
00:51:56.960 It's like 1 Samuel 8.
00:51:58.100 God promises as a judgment to a wicked people, a wicked king,
00:52:01.540 who doesn't love them, but he tyrannizes them.
00:52:04.360 He's like, look, if you hate God, you're going to get a people who hate God.
00:52:08.360 They're not going to know how to do anything, including rule.
00:52:10.600 And so you're going to get a king who does not love his people in place.
00:52:13.380 He hates them.
00:52:14.120 He loves himself. 1.00
00:52:15.400 He wants to use them and slaughter them and have them serve him. 0.58
00:52:18.440 Yeah, and I would even say, you know, we have, I'm sure, listeners who are not fully bought in on the post mill, and we've said in the past, yeah, fine, great, join us in the work. 0.55
00:52:27.780 Yeah, right.
00:52:28.200 One of the things I think to those brothers and sisters I would say is you have to still obey, you know, the general command from Jeremiah.
00:52:36.900 That's right.
00:52:37.240 That wherever God sends you, even if you're in exile, even if you believe that this is fundamentally exile, you are to seek the welfare of the place where you live.
00:52:44.780 You plant gardens, meaning you plant your roots.
00:52:47.140 You love your people.
00:52:47.980 You love your neighbors.
00:52:49.000 You build your parks.
00:52:50.160 You build your libraries.
00:52:51.120 You care about the education of the local children in your place.
00:52:54.060 You still have that moral responsibility from God's word.
00:52:57.680 Yes.
00:52:58.200 You have to do that.
00:52:59.140 And that's why people say, like, I've heard this before.
00:53:02.060 Well, Brian, you're saying believe in local government and throw yourself into it.
00:53:05.780 why should we be running for school boards? We don't believe in public schools. Yeah,
00:53:09.640 but you do believe in loving your neighbors who are enslaved to this tyranny. And so for you to
00:53:14.840 be involved in salt and light, even in these wicked systems, that is a way that you bring
00:53:20.420 the love of Christ, the love of people, the love of place to people that are downtrodden by the
00:53:24.760 tyrannizing state. It's the same reason Paul could say, greet those brothers and sisters in Caesar's
00:53:30.940 household. He wasn't like, oh, Christians, you know what? We believe in the law of God. Therefore, 0.71
00:53:36.780 any system that is tainted by sin, just leave it. Go abandon it. That's not necessarily what he says.
00:53:42.640 Yeah, I think that's, I've seen this a lot. We've talked about Dan and I have with sports.
00:53:47.740 You know, originally sports in America were developed by Christians. You know, James
00:53:51.780 Naismith in basketball, he develops through the YMCA young, you know, for young Christian men,
00:53:56.660 And something to do in the wintertime.
00:53:58.480 Those things have clearly, the NBA is not what James A. Naismith had envisioned.
00:54:02.960 Right.
00:54:03.500 Right?
00:54:04.120 But does that mean that we just say, foosball's the devil?
00:54:08.040 You and your fancy foosball friends. 0.99
00:54:09.740 You and your foosball friends are the devil, Bobby. 0.99
00:54:12.340 Like, do we say that and we just let the pagans have it? 0.99
00:54:15.680 Yeah.
00:54:16.020 I would say no.
00:54:17.200 You can't have NHL hockey.
00:54:19.460 I want that.
00:54:20.840 And this is a problem that you see so much.
00:54:22.600 I think 8th century woodchipper, Pastor Andrew Isker, was talking about this.
00:54:27.140 Chad King.
00:54:27.800 Chad King, absolute.
00:54:28.760 Absolute Chad King.
00:54:29.720 Shout out to our Chad King friend.
00:54:31.100 Shout out to our Chad King.
00:54:31.800 Andrew.
00:54:32.140 Writing a great book.
00:54:32.920 I think it's coming out through Canon Press sometime in the future on the Boniface option.
00:54:36.720 So quite a bit of overlap in our vision for Christianity from him.
00:54:41.140 He was talking about how one of the errors, and I think he would probably categorize and
00:54:44.760 agree with us that this is an error in the category of cuckold conservatism, this Christless
00:54:49.060 conservatism.
00:54:49.800 is this instinct to always leave and do our own thing
00:54:53.800 instead of infiltrating, conquering, and retaking.
00:54:57.720 And he would know the misery of what it means to stay
00:55:00.060 because he's a Vikings fan.
00:55:01.540 Right.
00:55:01.900 I am an ancestral Vikings fan
00:55:04.060 because my father's from Minnesota, Minnesota,
00:55:07.040 until he was 18.
00:55:08.560 It was the land of his youth, pig farm family up there,
00:55:11.640 300 acres in Minnesota. 1.00
00:55:14.280 And so I inherited that and can agree.
00:55:17.220 I know what it's like.
00:55:18.500 I know what it's like to be a part of a losing institution.
00:55:21.240 Why do you think, though, like you're bringing up the point,
00:55:23.200 it's a good one, that we abandon institutions. 0.98
00:55:26.500 I think this is why among conservative Christians it was so big,
00:55:29.180 like the last 20 years, church planning.
00:55:31.960 Oh, that's a great point, Eric.
00:55:33.260 But reclaiming old churches was like, it's too hard.
00:55:36.780 We don't want to do it.
00:55:38.360 It is too hard, yeah.
00:55:39.760 So one of the things that I think is in vogue right now,
00:55:42.280 and maybe you guys would have some insight as to the roots of this,
00:55:46.160 but it's in vogue to despise your place right i'm sure we all growing up heard in high school like
00:55:53.540 people saying i can't wait to leave this place yeah right i can't wait to get out of here it
00:55:58.760 seemed in vogue and maybe it's just a teenager thing i i don't really know uh i think part of
00:56:03.980 it is because there's no reason to stay like the reason i didn't stay in the midwest is because
00:56:09.220 there was nothing built there for me to actually you know to keep me there there was no gravity
00:56:14.040 as far as place was concerned.
00:56:16.440 So I don't know.
00:56:17.180 What do you guys think about that?
00:56:19.400 Why is it in vogue to despise your place
00:56:21.780 instead of to actually love it?
00:56:23.420 Because, you know, we talked to Quinn Bible,
00:56:25.000 Salt and Strings, butchering.
00:56:27.220 He loves his place.
00:56:27.940 He loves his place.
00:56:28.940 That's right, yeah.
00:56:29.520 Yeah, he loves it.
00:56:30.180 He was so excited.
00:56:31.300 Him and Anthony, I think it was Anthony,
00:56:34.480 yeah, his head butcher.
00:56:36.060 What's up, Anthony?
00:56:36.700 He was so excited to tell us
00:56:38.900 about how he lives across the street
00:56:40.300 from his grandfather's place.
00:56:41.940 It was like four generations back
00:56:43.960 or whatever that they had owned this farm and you got to think like they're they're able to go up to
00:56:48.880 certain groves of trees and say like great great grandfather pat pat planning that and and this
00:56:54.400 grandfather you know put in this fence line and this one put in this barn you know so why why you
00:57:00.300 have people like that that to me seems like absolutely glorious and then the vogue thing to
00:57:05.580 do which is to actually despise your place so i think it's it's connected to this when we talk
00:57:11.380 about patriot a patriot patria father is the root word a patriot is one who loves the fatherland
00:57:17.540 so our disdain for our fathers specifically the fathers who built america our violation of the
00:57:24.800 fifth commandment is the reason why if we hate our fathers we're going to hate the father's land
00:57:29.660 we're going to hate what they built so i think it's so much deeper than just like hating illinois
00:57:35.140 or hating, you know, Wisconsin or hating your small town. It's actually hating your father
00:57:41.400 and what his world made. Now, the problem today is there are some things that we should repent of
00:57:46.540 and disdain. We should disdain the boomer world. That would be a good example. But I think there's 1.00
00:57:51.880 also a fundamental reality. Wendell Berry has an essay on the Iliad and the Odyssey.
00:57:56.980 And he says the Iliad and the Odyssey is the fundamental struggle of every man in all history.
00:58:02.400 The Iliad is every young man's journey to go out, to win war, to fight and to, you know, have these feats of battle.
00:58:11.300 And then the Odyssey is the second part of a man's life, which is coming home to reclaim his homeland, to find his place and his people, to reclaim really, as Odysseus must do, his household.
00:58:22.640 I think the problem, though, and Wendell Berry points this out, the problem today is because we've had this hatred of the fatherland, we just stopped coming home.
00:58:31.560 Like, so in the old days, this was, you know, 1950s even, this was very common.
00:58:35.420 Like, the son would go to the big city, and a lot of movies and novels had this story arc.
00:58:41.040 They would go to the big city, and they'd be like, wow, this isn't all it's cracked up to be.
00:58:44.920 And then what would they do?
00:58:45.740 They would come home, and they would settle in their rural town, and they would regain the love for their fathers, right?
00:58:51.000 And for their father's land.
00:58:52.340 Well, the point is, we stopped coming home.
00:58:54.980 And it's crazy.
00:58:56.100 Aaron Wren points this out.
00:58:57.300 We're allowed to love our city.
00:58:58.600 You know, Tim Keller was all about love your city.
00:59:00.840 love your city hate your nation i don't know why but that's what's being pushed
00:59:04.820 eric that's really interesting one of the one of the things that i personally have been struggling
00:59:09.480 with recently i've been in utah i've been away from wisconsin uh for a while 2012 probably
00:59:16.900 so about 10 years now and all of my family has transplanted to utah and and so this is now my
00:59:24.660 home like i've said it burned the boats and everything like that yeah you guys watch like
00:59:29.180 Charlie Barron's and like this
00:59:31.800 it's a comedian who's from
00:59:33.860 Wisconsin and makes fun of Wisconsin
00:59:36.040 and everybody watches it and laughs
00:59:37.980 and I think it's funny but when I
00:59:40.040 watch it there's something else happening
00:59:41.580 because it's a love of home and it
00:59:44.040 took me leaving it to realize
00:59:45.720 what I actually had
00:59:47.380 in the uniqueness
00:59:49.720 of the culture and I know I've talked in
00:59:51.820 After Hours about like Norwegian and
00:59:53.880 Swedish jokes and 1.00
00:59:55.260 Mudducks yeah about 1.00
00:59:57.980 the affinity for Minnesotans and Illinoians. 1.00
01:00:03.760 Yeah.
01:00:04.940 And Michael Stane.
01:00:06.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:00:07.980 So anyway, so the point is that I feel that pull.
01:00:12.740 I feel that pull back home.
01:00:16.460 And so much of our culture, I think, is displaced, has been displaced.
01:00:21.940 I mean, our church, our church, we're in Utah, right?
01:00:24.640 Brian said less than 2% evangelical Christian.
01:00:27.980 and our church is full of non-natives to utah i mean i would say i came here from england you
01:00:35.240 came from wisconsin eric you came from colorado and elsewhere another elder is from california
01:00:40.960 another elder is from florida well i think a huge part of this actually is you've got to look at
01:00:48.420 what's going on with corporate america with the job markets so right now in america and i'm sure
01:00:54.160 data has changed a little bit since COVID. Actually, probably quite a bit. But mid-COVID,
01:00:59.680 the data that we had was that the average American employee stays at a job for under three years.
01:01:06.660 It was like 17 months or 21 months. It was crazy.
01:01:09.440 So, and I look back at my career and I think, okay, well, every time you wanted to advance,
01:01:13.680 every time you want to get a different job, it meant a move. So literally in 17 years of being
01:01:19.200 married we've lived in colorado three different times we've lived in kentucky we lived in illinois
01:01:24.700 we lived in maryland and we've been in a couple other places as well indiana so when you look at
01:01:30.660 that it's like well you actually wouldn't develop a love for place no what ended up happening along
01:01:36.580 the course we were like oh yeah we really love the west we missed that the problem was dan that
01:01:41.100 like you come back and it's like we didn't really have family not much family there right didn't
01:01:45.380 have a church again my job wasn't there so there's no gravity right there's no root system to actually
01:01:51.140 pull you in and hold you i think the other thing that we've got to be playing for right now is
01:01:58.300 like i you know i'm a transplant fairly recent i don't love this place i don't even know this place
01:02:05.680 you got to realize that it's going to take a lifetime for us to love it and then our hope
01:02:11.600 really and what we're setting up for is that our sons will like your sons dan will have never known
01:02:17.080 anything pretty much but utah and so for them the way you feel about wisconsin they'll feel about
01:02:22.020 here yeah and that's that's what we have so i keep like shoving down a lot of those longings
01:02:27.200 for home even to the point where i've been considering going back for deer season and
01:02:30.880 to go fishing and to go grouse hunting in northern wisconsin it is amazing any anyway like not doing
01:02:37.060 those things because I don't want to have to fight constantly with different affections.
01:02:42.800 And knowing that, Eric, my boys will have known nothing different and that we are actually
01:02:47.820 building things that will cause them to stay, hopefully, to keep our kids. There was a Grace
01:02:52.720 Agenda conference a few years ago on that. And it's not just keeping your kids in the faith,
01:02:56.780 because yes, absolutely. But it's also keeping your kids here rooted in the community because
01:03:02.440 it becomes a lot I imagine because I haven't experienced it it becomes a very rich place
01:03:08.500 when you can go into a church and say hey there's that guy's grandpa father you know here's him
01:03:13.880 here's you know his grandchildren there's where they built this is their part of town this is
01:03:18.420 their businesses yeah there's it and you have all these like marriages that have happened with
01:03:23.420 different families in the community that have tied everybody together yeah so you create gravity
01:03:29.220 through institutions like a school, wanting your kids to have, you know, my kids will have gone
01:03:34.060 through, uh, St. Brendan's classical Christian Academy, getting an amazing education, uh, you
01:03:39.980 know, formating, uh, forming a robust Christian worldview and things like that. And I'm hoping
01:03:45.360 that they're going to want their kids to want to have the same experience, to have the same
01:03:49.320 education, the same traditions and things like that. It, it becomes quite honestly difficult
01:03:55.640 to leave at that point. And I want to make it as difficult for my kids to leave as possible
01:03:59.520 because of their affections, not because of manipulation. We can be so Gnostic
01:04:05.100 with our understanding of affections in the gospel where we over-spiritualize and we fail
01:04:11.740 to recognize that part of the goodness of our created nature is it's embodied spiritualism,
01:04:16.160 embodied spirituality in a place with restrictions. We exist in a place. We have
01:04:23.160 extension in space. We come to love dirt and earth. And then you come to promises and pictures
01:04:30.000 in the prophets that the deserts will flower. Well, even what is the overarching theme of
01:04:36.280 Proverbs? What is the motivation for Solomon to write the Proverbs? It's, son, give me your heart.
01:04:42.880 Yeah, he wants their heart. And so, I mean, when you look at the flowering of the deserts,
01:04:46.980 it's like, you might be in a place that's not, you know, if I could choose anywhere in the world to
01:04:51.720 live just in my instincts and what I've come to love in a place I would want to live in like that
01:04:56.860 high pine country I'd want to French Canada in British Columbia like I'd want to go to Canada
01:05:03.060 I'd want to live close to the the the temperate Alps the temperate rainforests of the Pacific
01:05:08.180 Northwest I think are beautiful I love that area I love that weather you know however I live in a
01:05:14.000 desert I live in a high desert that's that's what Utah is so one of the things that I that I by the
01:05:19.200 way, one of the most beautiful places on earth. It really is. I mean, Utah is amazing and I'm
01:05:23.620 coming to love it. I've been here since 1999 and I don't feel a rootedness in place at all. Like
01:05:29.440 it's just, I still don't feel that about Utah, but one of the things that I look forward to,
01:05:34.900 like you guys are talking about, is that because the gospel can make, because Christ's work in
01:05:41.520 people can make people who go out and take dominion and make gardens in deserts and desert
01:05:47.240 wastelands and uninhabited places. I really believe that this place, that Ogden, Utah,
01:05:53.460 that Utah can become one of the jewels on Christ's crown and that it can become the kind of place
01:05:59.360 because of Christians in the name of Jesus taking dominion here. I believe that it can become a
01:06:04.860 place where my children would say, I don't want to live anywhere else. I wouldn't want to go
01:06:08.960 anywhere else. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I was thinking about my wife's, so this would be
01:06:14.080 her great grandpa who's no longer living they came to america from italy and they settled a valley
01:06:21.760 which was a poor valley they were mountain ranchers they built in they dug in they've been
01:06:28.220 there for oh geez 80 years wow and they settled it they started an earth moving company they run
01:06:36.880 businesses they're prominent in the area and that area is now aspen colorado and they own a bunch of
01:06:44.520 land and they're still there etc present but now it's like you can't say the family name and people
01:06:49.560 everybody knows who that is yeah because they've been there longer than anyone and they poured
01:06:54.460 into a place but it's interesting because my father-in-law told me he said grandma even his
01:07:00.200 grandma refused to speak italian which is actually uh patois which is like a northern italy france
01:07:07.560 french dialect um but it's interesting because they said they refused to speak it because they
01:07:13.200 they understood this principle of we're going to a new place we're not going to be nostalgic about
01:07:18.140 home this is our home interesting and so and they they understood the cost of that too they yeah you
01:07:23.760 could tell they love their culture but it's like we have to start something new i mean italian with
01:07:27.680 French mixed in. Sounds like a real improvement on
01:07:29.560 Italian. Imagine the food.
01:07:31.860 Can you imagine the food?
01:07:33.620 The food is actually amazing. So they were not
01:07:35.640 a tomato red sauce.
01:07:37.320 It's cream? Pesto.
01:07:40.080 Oh!
01:07:41.240 Because they're in the mountains. Oil and herb.
01:07:43.300 Not a lot of tomato from Tuscany or anything like that.
01:07:45.400 It's northern, so they're mountain. Wow. Pine nuts?
01:07:48.000 Yeah, they're mountain people.
01:07:49.520 You can harvest pine nuts in Utah, by the way.
01:07:51.200 And you know what? You can also harvest some serious juniper.
01:07:53.700 That's right. I did. We're making some juniper honey right now.
01:07:55.340 As a side note, I harvested some pine nuts.
01:07:57.680 in uh during a deer hunt and uh sticky mass big mistake especially when you don't have many gloves
01:08:03.660 right yeah continue yeah so one of the things i want to encourage people this has kind of been
01:08:07.740 our journey um aeneas was trying to settle a land into people but he was told by the gods that look
01:08:15.220 you'll have years of toil plowing the seas plowing the waves of the sea before you can get there
01:08:20.760 and so i think i was there a lot of times like i could get discouraged like i haven't found my
01:08:25.660 polis. I haven't found my people, my place. Um, but you, you have to keep fighting for it and
01:08:30.240 working. Uh, I know a lot of guys, you hear this a lot on Twitter. I went to a church. It was bad.
01:08:34.740 I went to another church. It was bad. I gave up. I'm just going to stay here. And I have no people
01:08:38.600 in place. One of the promises that I've held onto that God makes to his people, both in Kings,
01:08:44.600 I think the end of first Kings and then Isaiah 37, he says in the surviving remnant of the house 0.98
01:08:49.700 of judah shall again take root downward and bear fruit upward you are not going to be a fruitful 0.92
01:08:56.620 people you cannot be everything that we've we've been pushing for in christendom you will never be 0.83
01:09:03.340 christendom 2.0 if you do not find a place and a people and put roots down and become an oak oh
01:09:10.280 so good cannot do it with vagrancy you can't so i would just encourage people just because on the
01:09:16.420 first try you know you go to carthage and that's not your place and you go to ethiopia and that's
01:09:21.240 not your place like you keep moving forward yeah believing in the promise you'll find a people in
01:09:26.140 a place in ogden utah god will plug you in yeah there really is nothing sweeter than being in a
01:09:32.180 community where everybody's pulling the same direction yeah man and and it doesn't take long
01:09:37.340 there are rare communities to find so and that's the point you've got to put in an intense amount
01:09:41.820 of effort. Look, the whole point, I think one of the huge points of the Aeneid is it takes a hero
01:09:47.480 to start a people. Yeah. It takes heroic style effort, godlike effort, blessed by the gods and
01:09:54.740 also Aeneas is godlike. It takes that kind of effort to rebuild Christendom. Right? So it's
01:10:01.720 not for the faint of heart. It's not the easy work. Like if you're saying, well, what's the
01:10:05.820 thing I could do that's like bureaucratic and corporate and easy and you just fall into it
01:10:09.300 and it works christendom is not that thing right that's right i'm my mind is blown guys i've just
01:10:15.020 i've i didn't know that we were that there were such riches to be mined under that point but
01:10:20.300 we've we've whacked so eloquent that it's time to wrap this episode up so gentlemen you know
01:10:25.800 as much as i hate to say it there's going to be a part three and when i say i hate to say it i mean
01:10:31.240 i love to say it because i love words and talking about important stuff i'm just going to say at
01:10:36.640 this rate, there's probably going to be a part four. There's going to be at least a part three
01:10:39.920 at this point. And then a follow-up. Yeah, and then a follow-up. Because look, a lot of, and let
01:10:43.520 me defend that for a moment before we wrap this episode up, because I do believe that one of the
01:10:48.500 reasons this is good and meat, this is meat and right for this to be the case when we come to
01:10:53.720 this topic, is that in a lot of ways, when we talk about the polis, we talk about the city fathers,
01:10:59.340 we're talking about a rightly ordered people. And that is the project of Christendom. The project
01:11:05.600 of Christendom is not an ecclesiocracy. It's not an ecclesiocracy in which in like the papal error
01:11:11.380 where the church is the authority period and everything else is subsumed in the church.
01:11:17.660 God has made a world where there's family, there's the church, there's the city fathers and the civil
01:11:23.540 magistrate and the place. And those are all legitimate spheres, legitimate authority that
01:11:28.240 God has instructed. Neither subsumes the other entirely, though they have much overlap. But when
01:11:33.940 we start talking about things like a Christian political theology, we're really talking about
01:11:38.060 what it means and looks like to be a people in a place who love the Lord and build there.
01:11:43.040 So it would be reasonable for us to spend some more time and not rush through this topic,
01:11:48.840 which we won't do. But we do want to thank you for listening to this episode of the King's Hall
01:11:53.360 and point you to two of our sponsors for this episode. Of course, Reformation Heritage Books,
01:11:58.720 heritagebooks.org. They have a lot of good resourcement for the recovery of many of the
01:12:04.900 doctrines that we're describing. And again, these are going to start in the home. Pick up a family
01:12:08.760 worship Bible guide if you haven't already. That's a link in the description of this episode.
01:12:13.280 And men, you can begin to take responsibility right there at home and not let that authority
01:12:18.760 slip and let the state or let somebody else step in or even the pastor step in and say,
01:12:23.840 I guess I have to pick up the slack where dad left off. We'd want to point you as well to
01:12:29.060 another sponsor for this episode, Christendom Bible College, christendombiblecollege.org.
01:12:34.220 Again, there are links in the show notes there where you can check it out. This is higher
01:12:38.320 education that's aimed at being distinctly biblical, historical, taking a Christian
01:12:43.520 principle approach to higher education, aiming to restore America's character by training students
01:12:49.040 in the foundations and principles of our Christian civilization.
01:12:53.120 So you heard a lot of words in that little statement of intent there
01:12:57.900 that probably rings in harmony with many of the aims of this season
01:13:02.460 and of the King's Hall and of the three of us here in our church as well.
01:13:06.880 So we'd commend them to you, ChristendomBibleCollege.org,
01:13:09.960 if you're looking for some godly higher education there.
01:13:13.580 But thanks again for listening.
01:13:15.420 Make sure you check out our Patreon page.
01:13:17.500 there's a link in the description where we do another we're going to hit pause on that we're
01:13:21.440 going to hit stop on this recording we're going to hit record again and we're going to do our
01:13:25.580 after hours show that we produce with every main episode where we you know things come out i mean
01:13:30.840 it's like a pub it's like a pub environment at the king's hall we play it's i can't even describe
01:13:37.280 it it's too much fun it's too much fun we have so much fun and we'd love to invite you into that
01:13:41.900 all of our patrons gain access to uh our after hours not just the one that we're going to record
01:13:46.280 today, but also our whole back catalog. I think we've got 16 or 17 episodes of After Hours here
01:13:51.740 as we record on the 23rd of June in the year of our Lord, 2022. So jump on Patreon if you haven't
01:13:57.500 already, but remember, gentle kings and queens, Festan Alente, make haste slowly. This is a long
01:14:04.900 project and the Lord is not impatient. He looks down the ages and he fights the long victory
01:14:11.320 through those ages, generation by generation. See you next time.
01:14:16.280 We'll see you next time.
01:14:46.280 content.