00:10:02.740Well, gentlemen, in the previous few episodes,
00:10:05.660we've been discussing statism, the green grove of statism,
00:10:11.840that needs an axe, to be honest. We need to go into that green grove with Boniface's axe
00:10:17.720and knock it back, throw it down. Our Cathedral of New Christendom cannot go up, will not go up
00:10:25.140in the midst of a statist people, people who worship the state or locate the divine on earth
00:10:32.920in the ruling class or in the state. We talked in our last episode even about a kind of response
00:10:40.960that might be tempting for conservative Christians to reach for to try and fix statism, this kind of0.96
00:10:47.440cuckold, weak, lame conservatism. We said that won't do it. So what we're going to talk about0.96
00:10:54.720in today's episode, because for each of these things, you know, we've talked about revivalism
00:10:58.740and what should we do instead. We've talked about all sorts of things and what we should do instead.
00:11:02.820We don't just want to knock back green groves. We want to build cathedrals.
00:11:05.680So if we were to look at a Christian society, if we were to build Christian towns, even Christian cities, Christian nation-states, Christian polis or polis, we can't get a straight answer on which is the correct pronunciation, so we're just going to go with both.0.99
00:11:23.400I'll say polis, Dan will say polis. Polis! What would a Christian polis look like today? And so0.99
00:11:30.220we will be talking and discussing in this episode some of the broad outlines of what it would look
00:11:35.640like to establish a truly Christian rule or a truly Christian view of politics, the civil sphere,
00:11:43.920the political realm. So specifically today, gentlemen, I have 12 theses that I want to
00:11:50.680defend and discuss with you today 12 statements that we're claiming are true in the spirit of
00:11:56.420Martin Luther with his 95 theses on the Wittenberg Chapel door. We're going to nail these to the door
00:12:01.760of the King's Hall, and we're going to say, these are true. We believe these would result
00:12:06.300in a flourishing society in a flourishing Christian civil realm. So I'm going to begin,
00:12:14.140if it's all right with you gentlemen, by just reading all 12 of them so you can hear them as
00:12:18.100a body. And then we'll go back through and we'll have a discussion about them. We'll defend,
00:12:23.000expand, and see if we might flesh them out a little bit. Sound good?
00:12:27.360I love it. It's like the 12 rules of Christendom, like Jordan Peterson style.
00:13:27.700The political realm is one ordained by God, and therefore civil rule, though often corrupted by man's sin, into an evil is a positive good.
00:20:04.580And you could not properly rule the people unless you had an actual local, real neighborly care for them.
00:20:10.980Aristotle even argued that the polis should be no bigger than the size that it could be where you would recognize the family name of everybody in the polis, that you would know every citizen by face or reputation.
00:20:24.400Which is basically true of the U.S. now, except the opposite.
00:20:28.900Except for in the sense that there are 330 million people.
00:20:31.660Well, and you think about the discontent in America, so much of it is because we have these political leaders who, they don't know us, they don't care about us, and they don't care what happens to us.
00:20:41.720They've broken how many of these 12 theses?
00:20:50.940And that's actually, you know, number 11.
00:20:53.480We'll expand that a lot more on number 11.
00:20:55.180I think it's important when we start with this conversation about politics, because we are in such a universally terrible state of things, state of affairs.
00:21:06.780Like I just said, I think our government not only violates all 12 of these, but dances around on top of them dressed in a rainbow-colored G-string.
00:21:43.860I accidentally, I handle a lot of our orders.
00:21:45.860I accidentally somehow sent someone who ordered the Boniface mug, which is actually a serious mug with good art on it, for Father's Day for their husband.
00:21:56.240She ordered that one, and I accidentally sent her a Why Are You Gay mug.1.00
00:22:00.940So it's like, Happy Father's Day, you homo.1.00
00:22:04.960So I'm sorry, whoever I did that, I won't name-dox you.1.00
00:22:32.560And actually, biblically, that is absolutely not true.
00:22:36.180And in fact, if you say that from the foundations, you have just made it impossible to derive a truly biblical system of civil rule.
00:22:45.120If you treat it like a necessary evil, you've actually just under, you've taken out the feet from under your legs, biblically speaking, for how to think about what a civil government should even look like in the first place.
00:22:59.800Yeah, and I think, so, you know, just scripturally, where are we getting this?
00:23:03.500It's the same place we're talking about resisting tyranny, which is Romans 13.
00:23:07.440Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God,
00:23:12.220and those that exist have been instituted by God.
00:23:16.000So we do have to confess, rightly, that the civil magistrate is a legitimate sphere.
00:23:21.500It's ordained by God, and we owe it proper honor and respect.
00:23:25.780Even in 1 Chronicles 25, we see God saying, it says,
00:23:30.040The Lord magnified Solomon exceedingly in the sight of all Israel and bestowed upon him such royal majesty as had not been on any king before him in all Israel.
00:23:38.740We see things like 2 Samuel 23, where we're told the God of Israel said, The rock of Israel spake to me.
00:23:45.780He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God, and he shall be the king.
00:23:50.380This human king shall be as the light of the morning when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds, as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.
00:24:01.500So God is describing godly civil rule as a glorious, beautiful, majestic sort of thing.
00:24:18.680He's a political – I mean, again, he's a political ruler seated on the throne of the heavenly Zion.
00:24:24.380So you can't just knee-jerk react to ungodly civil rule by saying civil rule is bad.
00:24:32.120You know, that's interesting because another sphere of authority that we're more familiar with would be the sphere of the church and how the church is to operate, right?
00:24:40.240We wouldn't say that because there are a lot of wicked churches and there are a lot of really evil men that are acting as elders, that therefore the church should not exist.
00:24:52.700And you get different movements, right?
00:24:54.800The home church, there's like a sinful home church movement.
00:24:58.220And like doing a personal, like private church service.
00:25:02.600And to make that mistake with the state, I think, is an equal mistake of shedding off this hierarchy that God has put in, actually, to keep order and discipline, which does a couple of things.
00:25:34.540Same way in these other areas of hierarchy is that you never actually know where you stand.
00:25:40.500But in a good church, bringing it full circle, in a good church, it is sweet to have good community, to have men that you respect and women that you respect and people that are looking out for you and that care for you.
00:25:54.260It is an amazing, fruitful experience.
00:25:57.280yeah the same thing could be said about a civil authority the the the polis yeah the polis polis
00:26:04.960no that executes actual justice yeah just justice that punishes the wrongdoer that knows the name
00:26:11.780of the people and i know we're getting into other categories but the proverbs say that when when
00:26:16.220justice is enacted swiftly the people rejoice yes right it's a yeah when you when you line up wait
00:33:59.360Well, see, biblical justice, and this is true whether you're talking about a human life,
00:34:03.280a family, a church, or something up to a nation state or a city state.
00:34:07.600The biblical view of justice isn't the top-down imposition in an artificial way of justice
00:34:14.240upon a people who hate it. Truly biblical justice is something that is born out of the soul of the
00:34:21.320people. The people act justly because they love justice, because they belong to the Lord. They
00:34:29.020have new hearts. And so while we will make a distinction later, even in our thesis here,
00:34:34.700that as Christians, we should want for our neighbors to have Christian rulers, not pagan0.97
00:34:39.140rulers, even if they're not Christians themselves, because we love them and we don't want them to be
00:34:42.900oppressed or to be the subject of unjust laws. But we're not saying that our goal is just to get
00:34:49.840five or six people on top of America so that they can fix it. Because biblically speaking,
00:34:54.480that is not truly fixed. Biblically speaking, what you would need is for Levin to go through
00:35:00.080the lump. This is why when we say we're post-millennial and people say, well, so you
00:35:04.580believe in some kind of utopian view of Christianity. And it's like, well, hang on.
00:35:09.140What we actually believe in is foundationally that the Great Commission will be successful.
00:35:12.900We believe that Christ will return to a wheat field with some weeds in it, not a weed field with a few straggling stalks of wheat.
00:35:21.980But that's because we believe in conversion, the conversion of the nations so they could be discipled, and so that as a result of their conversion into discipleship, they want and they establish godly rule in the civil sphere.
00:35:36.260It's the exact opposite of that criticism.
00:35:38.820Yeah, and I think when you look at even the gospel pictures that Jesus uses of the kingdom,
00:36:21.120The point of this thesis is that if you want a truly godly civil government, it must necessarily be the result of conversion on a mass scale among the people.0.92
00:36:34.140Or at least enough salt and light and leaven being present amidst a people that, you know, because, you know, 10% Christian population can have an outsized effect on a nation or a city.0.92
00:36:51.980But what I'm saying is I think with a 10% or 20% very committed minority of Christians in a place, they could begin to see an outsized effect on the ruler, on the ruling of those people.0.58
00:37:03.600in the sense that you might see godly Christian businessmen running for office on local school0.71
00:37:09.060boards beginning to leaven the lump because they care more than their apathetic pagan neighbor,0.98
00:37:13.520hopefully. But you're truly not going to get godly civil rule unless it's the result of0.99
00:37:19.160conversion on some kind of large scale across the board. Yeah, it's something I was thinking about.
00:37:26.840When you think about we really have a culture of death, those who hate wisdom love death.
00:37:32.200Well, the only answer biblically to death is resurrection and new life.
00:37:38.520So I think we need to be culturally aware of that, not hopeless, but to say, look, we have the gospel, which is the power to raise dead men to life, but that's fundamentally what we have.
00:37:46.940I wouldn't even say this is so much a dying culture as a rotting corpse.
00:37:55.780And so as Christians, we need to be cognizant about that. And then, as you said, realize that the fundamental work of changing the government is a fundamental work of changing the hearts of the people.
00:38:07.160We want people to love what is good and true and beautiful.
00:38:09.880Not just to force them at sword point to obey God, even though part of the job of the civil magistrate is to restrain evil, to restrain the wickedness of people who hate good.
00:38:22.420And so we're not going to say, like, well, because we believe in Christian discipleship, we're not about punishing people.
00:38:29.760It's like, no, that is what the state exists to do, retributive justice.
00:38:33.660We would say the same about something like Roe v. Wade right now.0.68
00:38:37.300I don't care if our country is a bunch of pagan leftists.0.99
00:38:40.560I would overturn that sucker in a heartbeat.1.00
00:38:43.440But you've got people like Karen Swallow Pryor saying, well, I just wish it would have come at a better time.
00:38:49.860Yeah. Even if the people hate it, we still will do justice. The principle is, are good laws enough to save people? No, of course not. No, good laws won't do it. It can still restrain. But would you rather have good laws or bad laws? Yeah, that's right. Well, I'm not an idiot, so I'd like good laws.
00:39:08.780Yeah, I mean, you need to have the godly people part of this equation, because there are still laws on the books against sodomy, against gay mirage, against abortion, and they're just not enforced.0.96
00:39:24.560There's Sabbath laws on the books in some jurisdictions.
00:39:27.820Yeah, so just because you have the law doesn't mean that the people will actually obey it, especially when you have a government that won't enforce its own laws.
00:39:37.580And actually, many of the efforts on the abortion front, for example, in Arizona, I know that Apologia Church, one of the prongs of their attack was to appeal to the courts of Arizona to say that the government is failing to enforce laws that are already on the books that ought to protect the unborn from murder.
00:39:57.500And so they were saying, look, obey your own laws.
00:46:21.880And when you abandon rule of law, like we're doing in our country,
00:46:25.480you're like speed racing to the cliff's edge if you're not already there and you're hitting the
00:46:31.520accelerator as gravity pulls you to the bottom of the cliff yep it's it's over when that happens
00:46:37.400yeah wow that's sad guess we're all just gonna die not me baby i got a parachute i jumped out
00:46:45.480of the corvette yeah we we jumped out let me read from romans 13 here because i think this is such
00:46:53.880Romans 13 is a passage that's so often used. We're going to get into this in the sixth principle
00:46:57.620about no authority being ultimate or absolute to save God's authority. But people use this text
00:47:03.960so often to basically say, do whatever daddy government tells you. And I think we'll see
00:47:09.420that's disingenuous. Paul says, let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there
00:47:13.980is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore,
00:47:18.360whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will
00:47:22.280incur judgment for rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. And I want you to key
00:47:27.900in on words like good and bad and what you think Paul would say about who gets to decide what is
00:47:31.980good and bad conduct. He said, would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what
00:47:36.760is good and you will receive his approval for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong,
00:47:42.780be afraid for he does not bear the sword in vain for he is the diakonos or the servant. It's the
00:47:48.420same word as deacon, for he is the deacon, we could say, of God, an avenger who carries out
00:47:56.020God's wrath on the wrongdoer. All right, so let me give you a little thought experiment today to
00:48:02.580make us all throw up in our mouth to see if what is often done with this passage could rightly be
00:48:07.400done with it, and have Paul be sitting in the room and say, yeah, that's what I meant. Okay,
00:48:11.640Right. For rulers are not a terror to your scantily clad gay pride parade in front of small children, but to bad conduct, like saying that a man cannot become a woman no matter how much surgery he gets.0.98
00:48:27.260Would you have no fear of the one who is an authority? Then do what is good and attend the pride parade and wave your rainbow flag in its approval.0.71
00:48:35.100And there you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good.
00:49:09.480that, well, God's law is written on human hearts. There's a common kingdom. And so this legislation
00:49:15.220should come from the common kingdom. Do you hear that? Do you think that's a fair question?
00:49:23.420I know Brian's thought a lot about this. So yeah, this is typically coming out of the Meredith
00:49:27.860Klein into R2K stuff. I guess it's sort of, it reminds me a lot. So I was a classical philosophy
00:49:35.420major in college and one of the things that reminded me a lot of like we'd have professors
00:49:39.380who would they would argue from david hume and other people that morality was only a matter of
00:49:43.680taste right that that whole argument and i would say okay well my taste is that i want to murder0.98
00:49:49.660you and steal your car and and they would immediately say drink your blood well you can't0.84
00:49:53.420do that though why not and i would say why and they'd have absolutely zero answer yeah i think
00:49:59.420it's very similar with the common kingdom look here's the issue we will be ruled by a law you
00:50:05.200have two choices, righteous, unrighteous. Yeah. So you're telling me that you would prefer the
00:50:09.940unrighteous law. Yeah. They have to go there eventually. Yeah. And I think, I think where
00:50:16.480like your, your modern two kingdoms guys are, are getting at or what they're trying to argue
00:50:22.420is this, we call it like NL2K, natural law, two kingdoms sort of theory that God, especially in
00:50:29.220places like the Noahic covenant in Genesis 9 established that the common kingdom, which is
00:50:36.160like the kingdom that is not the church, would be governed by natural law through human reason
00:50:41.620and man's ability through conscience to access this natural law. And this natural law is basically
00:50:47.620just a derivation of if by man's blood man is shed, then by man shall his blood be shed.
00:50:52.940It's basically like a derivation of eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, like sort of basic principles
00:50:58.280of lex talionis sort of justice, and that you'd then build from, the state then should build
00:51:04.740kind of a law system that is just built on the derivation of what anybody, Christian, Muslim,
00:51:10.740Jew, could access through reason and their conscience. And their idea is that this is how
00:51:16.640God intended for the state to govern the world. This is how public ethics was supposed to happen.
00:51:20.900And so God made it sufficiently clear through these means that states could govern in this way.
00:51:26.620And I would just say, first of all, there are some books that you should read. I mean, there's some books through Ezra Institute that I think at length, like O'Neill's book, I can't remember what O'Neill's book, it's about Two Kingdoms Theology from Ezra Institute.
00:51:42.320Brian Mattson wrote a book about this with another guy.
00:51:45.300There's lots of critiques you could give, but just briefly, I would say that, number
00:51:50.180one, one of the problems with this view is that when you start doing that work of deriving
00:51:57.120law, like case law, from these common principles of conscience, what you end up doing is just
00:52:03.140reconstructing the law in the scriptures anyway.
00:52:06.320Because the whole point is, well, you shouldn't appeal to verses in the Bible and try to
00:52:09.540establish like, even in a basically reformed way from the general equity of the civil law
00:52:14.000of Israel, like you shouldn't try to establish a law for a nation from that. That should be
00:52:18.620natural law only. And I would just say, well, if you really understood how to do natural law,
00:52:22.580you would land on the same law anyway. You would end up with basically the same law as you do in
00:52:28.880Moses in terms of its general equity. It's also interesting too, though, because I think like
00:52:33.800practically this sort of pietism uh common kingdom language it can really only thrive in a neutral or
00:52:40.760positive world right where christianity is you know it's positively viewed yeah in a world
00:52:45.380christianity built yeah that's right but think about like daniel could daniel's brand of you
00:52:52.100know i'll say christianity but i think we all know what i'm saying could his faith have withstood if
00:52:56.860he was a pietist and the answer is no because he wasn't living in a neutral world yeah he he wasn't
00:53:03.340living in the world that Christians build. We are, but it's fading to the point that0.75
00:53:08.940this stuff isn't going to fly anymore because it's going to be so in your face. I mean,
00:53:14.460every year I've been alive, this is the most aggressive I've ever seen, June.
00:56:13.380It's like man's power, man's ideas about the good, the true, and the beautiful, man's ideas about authority, man's ideas about what civilization should be aimed at and how it's ordered, and it's making that into the God, the cultus of the system, making deified man, the state, into God.
00:56:30.940again, like Joe Boot points out in The Mission of God, it's replacing the God-man as the nexus,
00:56:36.500the ladder of Jacob that connects heaven and earth. It's replacing Christ with deified man
00:56:42.620in the form of the state, in everything from Pharaoh's Egypt, where he's the son of the sun0.73
00:56:48.240God, to the Greeks and Romans and emperor worship, to secular humanist versions of this,
00:56:54.560where man literally becomes his own God in his deification. And so when we talk about
00:57:00.660that system of political rule, we're necessarily talking about a relativistic view of ethics,
00:57:08.040of law, and of civil rule, because it's just man's inclinations writ large. It's like man's
00:57:15.260instincts about the good, the true, and the beautiful writ large in a sinful way. And so
00:57:20.400you see jeremiah you know jeremiah 17 9 everywhere that the the what is it the the heart the heart
00:57:28.160of man is deceitful 17 9 yeah desperately wicked and deceitful above all things yeah it's like so
00:57:33.860when when isaiah rebukes the people of israel for saying that light is dark and dark is light and
00:57:38.420bad is good and good is bad it's what we're talking about here with with the pride parades0.97
00:57:43.060where we're saying sexual deviancy things that will get you thrown into hell justly are good1.00
00:57:48.400and let's celebrate them with a parade, with floats, whereas things like Christians being0.76
00:57:53.700fruitful and multiplying are bad because that's destroying the earth through climate change.0.93
00:57:58.080It's any state program, therefore, that praises Pride Month and denigrates having children
00:58:05.520on a governmental level is just man's subjective inclinations writ large.
00:58:11.500And I mean, you see this in just today. I don't know if you guys were in this text thread,
00:58:15.480but someone in our church sent us a screenshot of their military email inbox. And it was like
00:58:22.440of the 10 or 12 email headings that were shown, like eight of them were related to LGBTQ Pride
00:58:28.140Month stuff. This is the US military. That's government subsidized, civilization destroying
00:58:35.420sexual deviancy. That is man's inclinations writ large, man following his penis, man following his1.00
00:58:44.960sexual desires as if they are God. And then when you make that man into the king of the king of0.99
00:58:51.320kings and lord of lords on the statist plan, well, then you just end up enshrining man's
00:58:56.980inclinations, sinfulness writ large. Christendom Bible College offers a one-year certificate in
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01:00:03.340updates and receive your free three-chapter excerpt of our very own Dr. Frank J. Smith's
01:00:08.840new book race church and society well that's that's even an obvious one yeah you know but
01:00:17.640if you back up and look at just examine the laws in the books say that the state even desires to
01:00:23.120have a good thing like we should have an educated people yeah right that should be good to have an0.87
01:00:28.800educated people to have people that are knowledgeable the puritans were the first ones in the north
01:00:32.620america to establish any kind of coherent schooling system including the universities0.87
01:00:37.680and colleges yeah so what they decided to do is we're going to just tax people and then we'll we
01:00:45.100will educate your children why does that become a problem well it becomes a problem because you're
01:00:50.520actually stealing from people because it's outside of your realm of responsibility yeah and then
01:00:57.220obviously we have a whole host of issues with the actual education itself, but just the way that
01:01:02.720they approached the issue and the solution was subjective. Yeah. Yeah. It was subjectivist.
01:01:09.640That's right. It was relativism. It was man inventing his own moral code and then enforcing
01:01:15.900it through a monopoly of force with the government, with governmental gunpoint. Yeah. And then I think
01:01:21.700you can think of a small scale to what happens in a household when a father rules by subjective
01:01:26.720standards versus god's law well he's capricious his children usually hate him his wife can't
01:01:31.680stand him his neighbors he's usually a turd of a human yeah versus yeah the only way that you're
01:01:37.900going to get a just man is somebody who follows the law yep yeah and if you're listening to this
01:01:44.880and you're in your um like more of a classical two kingdoms type of guy and you hear us criticizing
01:01:50.040common kingdom language and things like that and maybe we'll make this clear later in the episode
01:01:53.640but I'm not sure where the conversation will go.
01:01:55.780But our criticisms of this are largely focused on the modern radical two kingdoms views
01:02:02.840and the way that they land in cultural impotence.
01:02:05.880Because, I mean, classical reformed two kingdoms views,
01:02:10.000as they were seen in the 16th and 1700s,
01:02:12.940they did not result in a politically impotent or inactive people
01:02:16.500who were unwilling to apply the text of scriptures to issues of political rule.
01:02:22.620We're talking about this fantasy land of neutrality in the state where you're saying like, oh, we should just argue for our ethics publicly from the natural law in two kingdoms.
01:02:35.280And it's like, look, Calvin had no problem quoting Leviticus in talking about civil rule.
01:02:41.180I have a quote from Calvin for later in the episode about some things that would be like, you know, Calvin, I think you could call a lot of the reformers two kingdoms guys on some level.
01:02:49.340I would argue that even concepts like Kuyperian sphere sovereignty that I think might be better ways of explaining some of the ideas they were getting at are actually compatible with truly reformed, historically reformed two-kingdom language.
01:03:05.840And we're just using different labels for some of the same ideas.
01:03:09.340if you're listening there, you should know I am perfectly content with the confessional language
01:03:15.640in the Westminster Confession or the 1689, like chapter 19 of the 1689. I'm perfectly content
01:03:21.640with the language of how they talk about the Mosaic Civil Law and the general equity. I'm
01:03:25.840perfectly content with that. And so I'm not necessarily interested so much in having raging
01:03:33.680arguments about Bonson's thesis when it comes to theonomic ethics or things like that.
01:03:39.340I'm saying like we're not even close to ready for that. We need to figure out – we need to get rid of some of these obvious errors with respect to the law that like are massively popular today surrounding our thinking of neutrality, natural law, the radical two-kingdom stuff that is just in the air and in the water and has informed so much of our political thinking.
01:04:01.940And so when I say, like, godly city fathers are to rule with respect to God's objective standards, not man's subjective inclinations, I'm trying to say something, actually, that a classic two kingdoms person could absolutely affirm and say, yes, brother, and a theonomic guy on the other side, a really, like, high-octane theonomic brother could say yes and amen.
01:04:28.500Like, that's the kind of statement we're trying to make here. We're not trying to, you know, identify and land in the tiniest possible sliver of understandings of the law and public ethics that we possibly could. We're saying, like, let's figure out the basics, you guys. Like, let's figure out the ABCs of how to do Christian political theology. And if you can't agree with that statement, then it's like, NGMI, you're not going to make it.
01:04:54.980Dan's laughing at me because I'm absolutely on a rant.
01:04:58.440No, I was about to make a theonomy joke, but theonomists, they take themselves too seriously, so I'm not going to do it.
01:05:15.860I think one of the things that, for my money, like why do we go so hard at maybe like class, or not classical, but the radical two kingdom?
01:05:25.920And I think pastorally for me, it's because I see them doing what Gashmue is doing in the book of Nehemiah.
01:05:33.280You're actually discouraging the people from doing the work of Christendom.0.99
01:05:59.260And Calvin would stand up and he'd be like, civil government prevents idolatry, sacrilege against God's name, blasphemies against his truth, and other public offenses against the religious state from arising and spreading among the people.
01:06:13.540And you're like, Calvin definitely would not go with the full David French.
01:10:11.360Yeah. Well, we were talking about, Brian, offline, but just how a lot of people have said, you know, what's the difference between like complementarianism and patriarchy?
01:10:20.660This would actually be one of the issues.
01:10:23.280Complementarianism generally wants to limit father rule to the home and the church, really, if that.
01:10:31.160Whereas in the patriarchal view, we're saying, look, hierarchy throughout scripture, we see the pattern that men are ruling in every sphere, except for, obviously, mothering household.0.98
01:10:45.240She is certainly the oikos despot.0.98
01:10:46.920Right. Not that all expressions of authority, period, are male.1.00
01:10:49.520No, exactly. So I think, why does it ruffle feathers?
01:10:54.640Because you have people who are mad at John Piper for questioning whether a woman should be a police officer.
01:11:00.900I'm actually happy to come out and say absolutely 100% not.0.87
01:11:05.120She is not to be in a protector soldier-like role.
01:11:08.800She's not to put on the garb of a soldier.
01:11:11.360But I'm also happy to say she should not be the president.0.99
01:15:38.720So even just the way that men are geared, the ability to compartmentalize justice is to be
01:15:45.660blind. The government, its job, the state, its job is to wield the sword of justice. That's why
01:15:52.140You see the picture of Lady Justice, the statue. She's holding scales and a sword and she's blindfolded because justice is to be blind. And so you're not supposed to show partiality in that. And so what we have is not a government that executes justice through wielding the sword, which you also get things like military and some form of police.1.00
01:16:15.940And I know there's a lot of discussions we could go down the rabbit hole, but we won't on how much of that is actually necessary and just.
01:17:11.800And we won't undermine all of the money that you're making by stealing it through a hidden tax called inflation so that you have to work more hours.0.99
01:22:44.160voted for trump yeah actually i think there was a study that that went even further than that that
01:22:49.520said it looked at almost all of the what what a truly christian conservative would look at
01:22:54.820legislatively in terms of candidates and policy and say how many of them that have passed would
01:22:59.240have passed if only men voted like i think it was zero i'm not even kidding i think it was zero
01:23:04.540yeah i think it was like how many how many liberal uh executive heads of executive the
01:23:10.880presidents we've had it was like zero how many it's crazy it's wild how big of a swing it is
01:23:16.460when you and what that shows is that we've actually in attempting to make women uh the uh
01:23:21.760cut rate men what we've done is we've actually divided every household in america we've said
01:23:27.080because because obviously those are some of those households there's quite a few of them where the
01:23:30.680women are voting one way and the husbands are voting another way it's like this is probably
01:23:36.000the most based episode we've ever done definitely i'm pretty sure that we just lost about 40 of our
01:23:41.040listeners listeners who are still with us yeah you're the real ones you're the real you're the
01:23:46.400real ones like actually no i'm mad i just want to see how much worse it gets share this with your
01:23:50.620based friends because they'll like it they'll love it yeah it's also interesting brad i was thinking
01:23:55.560of something that i've heard your wife say um which i thought was really good like if women
01:23:59.840are being honest this this is not just like a stereotype but it's a real thing women are1.00
01:24:06.220designed with hormones you can look at this biologically scientifically whatever their
01:24:10.920hormones are constantly in flux throughout the month yeah even hormonally men tend to be more
01:24:15.820stable yeah so kind of the old adage where it'd be like well do you trust a woman who's on her0.77
01:24:19.940period once a month to push the nuke button that's actually true right that may be the most based
01:24:26.260thing that's been said on the podcast and i don't even know if i have pms i'm just always grumpy so
01:24:32.440it's hard to tell no it's it's true and and what the comp what the thin complementarian what the
01:24:37.460what the you know even people are trying to cling to a vestige of conservatism say
01:24:41.500and try to have is this is this state of affairs where they can say men and women are the same
01:24:47.840but god arbitrarily said that men should lead in the home and in the church yeah but then for some
01:24:53.940reason when we get to the state it's like ah you know but it's a lady senators lady president lady
01:24:58.880supreme court justice yeah i mean and and honestly let's let's be honest here i'd rather have amy
01:25:04.160coney barrett than many liberal men but that doesn't answer the question no that's just again
01:25:08.540that's a judgment well yeah and so it gets back to like tim culler said it uh i know john frame
01:25:15.140has said it you know uh a woman can do anything a non-ordained man can do and and what you're
01:25:22.520seeing here is that they're saying like outside of the office of pastor it really doesn't matter
01:25:28.660there's no distinction no difference and we're arguing i hope very clearly the opposite of that
01:25:34.460these distinctions apply to all of creation because they're creational and they're wound up in men and
01:25:39.480women's nature yeah i would say like okay well then why have men made almost every major invention
01:25:45.320mechanically speaking why would men dominate in any show of physical activity why are men even
01:25:51.640things like the best chess players in the world by far by a wide margin magnus carlson far better
01:25:57.220than the closest female competitor why like you you go down the line and you find that there are
01:26:01.980certain things that man maleness that man was fitted for like singular obsessive focus building
01:26:10.620uh like physical exertion leadership things like that rule and then you look at things and there's
01:26:16.780like and women are not just a little better they are worlds better than men at those things to
01:26:23.340which god fitted them and you can't just they're not legos they're not four block legos that you
01:26:29.320just switch out and they're just different colors it's like they are different creatures yeah if
01:26:35.060you look at the nature of any hierarchy you are essentially like reducing it to contention yeah
01:26:43.700Like fighting. At some level, you are contending, even if it's just protecting. So you're defensive, you know, instead of being the aggressor. But at every level, you are fighting. And that's why, you know, in the scriptures, it talks about like that a woman should not wear the garb of a man, of a soldier.
01:27:04.500is because, by nature, women are supposed to be nurturing.