The King's Hall - Keeping Our Kids Out of the Digital Matrix

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, Brian here with a big announcement from New Christendom Press.

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00:00:17.240 what it's done to everything from politics to church life to the economy,

00:00:21.220 and what to do about it.

00:00:23.040 Pre-order it today at newchristendompress.com slash longhouse.

00:00:26.600 And as a thank you for pre-ordering, you'll get 10% off automatically.

00:00:30.900 We'll also be signing the first 1,000 copies, so pick yours up today.

00:00:35.480 This episode of the King's Hall is brought to you by John Michael Clark over at The Family Captain and our supporters at patreon.com.

00:00:45.520 He dies for lack of discipline, and because of his great folly, he is led astray.

00:00:51.200 Proverbs 5.23

00:00:53.160 Many men that were just boys in the 1980s or 1990s recall many fond hours spent with friends or siblings in front of a television screen, frantically mashing the buttons of a Nintendo, Xbox, or PlayStation game console.

00:01:08.340 Whether racing in Mario Kart, making thumb blisters in Street Fighter, or accusing your brother of screen peeking in Goldeneye, the games may change depending on age, but the experience remains the same.

00:01:21.840 Most of us had this experience as part of our childhood.

00:01:25.320 Gaming has changed since that time as games have become more complex, more interactive,

00:01:29.960 and to some extent, even more addictive.

00:01:32.900 To some, gaming is fun entertainment, but to others,

00:01:35.700 it is the ultimate escape from a life where it feels impossible to win.

00:01:41.580 On August 8th of 2015, a 17-year-old Russian boy named Rustem broke his leg.

00:01:48.540 Most boys would be disappointed with the mishap because of the freedom of summer

00:01:52.060 would no longer allow for the joys of summer vacation.

00:01:55.920 Rustem, however, was not disappointed.

00:01:57.820 In fact, he was excited about his broken leg

00:02:00.460 because it would give him time to play his favorite video game,

00:02:04.040 Defense of the Ancients.

00:02:06.380 Defense of the Ancients is a multiplayer online battle arena,

00:02:10.520 a mod part of the World of Warcraft game series known to have massive worldwide appeal.

00:02:17.620 Rustem's parents, seeing little of their 17-year-old son,

00:02:21.020 quickly had grown used to the sound of him pounding at his keyboard behind the closed door of his bedroom.

00:02:26.280 The boy averaged playing the game a staggering six and a half hours a day without his broken leg.

00:02:32.720 His parents thought nothing of their son playing a little extra during his recovery.

00:02:36.600 His gaming continued without notice.

00:02:39.080 Rustem played for hours, with only minor breaks to nap, eat, or use the bathroom.

00:02:44.040 Those hours, however, turned into days.

00:02:46.320 Days turned into weeks, and the pounding of the keyboard continued.

00:02:50.600 The boy remained stationary in his chair with a broken leg playing his game.

00:02:55.580 His parents noticed one day that the keyboard was silent.

00:02:59.800 There was not the usual frantic pounding of keys on his desk

00:03:03.380 that had become part of the home's background white noise.

00:03:07.120 The parents opened the 17-year-old's bedroom door

00:03:09.620 and found their son unconscious on his keyboard.

00:03:13.340 Quickly, he was rushed to the hospital, where he was declared dead on arrival.

00:03:17.580 Doctors discovered that the boy had died from second-class thrombosis due to his lack of movement.

00:03:23.600 His blood was clotting in his circulatory system because he sat stationary for such a massive stretch of time.

00:03:30.460 The doctors asked the parents about the boy's lack of movement,

00:03:34.180 and they discovered that the boy had been sitting in his chair gaming for 22 days straight.

00:03:39.960 the king's hall podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well and win the world

00:03:46.820 well gentlemen welcome to this episode of the king's hall podcast i'm one of your hosts eric

00:03:54.600 and uh what a fascinating story first of all wow i want to introduce you guys but brian was

00:04:00.300 actually had to get up and move while listening to the cold open i hate stories of blood clots

00:04:07.360 and, like, brain aneurysms because they make me feel anxious

00:04:13.320 and so sad and angry at the same time with that story.

00:04:18.080 Unbelievable.

00:04:18.980 I think there was, like, one crucial detail, though, Dan,

00:04:21.340 that I didn't hear in the story.

00:04:22.960 Like, if he was a Russian, was he wearing an Adidas tracksuit?

00:04:26.160 So you could picture it. 0.96

00:04:27.280 Yes.

00:04:27.760 Yes, he definitely was.

00:04:28.760 Okay.

00:04:28.980 Yep, definitely picture it.

00:04:30.020 Probably had a gold chain.

00:04:31.060 He didn't have the chest hair yet.

00:04:32.280 He was only 17.

00:04:33.060 He was only 17.

00:04:33.580 Serbian tiger in the room.

00:04:35.480 That's crazy. 0.90

00:04:36.140 22 days.

00:04:36.880 Gentlemen, welcome to this episode.

00:04:39.040 What an encouraging story and cold open to start.

00:04:42.720 But gentlemen, I kind of have to know, how have you guys been?

00:04:44.680 It's been a little while.

00:04:46.140 Well, for the last 22 days, I've been gaming.

00:04:49.040 Just to see if it works.

00:04:50.140 That's why we haven't had an episode of the Kings Hall.

00:04:52.560 We've been world of work.

00:04:53.880 What did you say?

00:04:54.500 Mod?

00:04:55.060 I didn't understand about half of what you said.

00:04:56.960 I'm going to be honest.

00:04:57.980 I didn't either. 1.00

00:04:58.780 So there are going to be listeners that are like, this idiot. 1.00

00:05:01.800 He doesn't even know. 1.00

00:05:02.600 He didn't pronounce that right.

00:05:03.340 They're like, yeah, I actually don't know. 1.00

00:05:05.040 This idiot didn't spend years of his life. 1.00

00:05:08.160 I'm on Wikipedia. 1.00

00:05:09.540 Like, what is the world of Warcraft?

00:05:11.400 He's probably not even a level 60.

00:05:13.380 Number three from Blizzard something.

00:05:14.680 No, no, no.

00:05:16.000 He's probably not even a level 60 mage.

00:05:19.120 Warlock.

00:05:19.880 I literally don't know.

00:05:21.940 I don't even know what just happened.

00:05:23.380 My kids keep saying like, oh, dad, the neighborhood kids.

00:05:26.960 Minecraft.

00:05:27.880 I was like, explain this to me.

00:05:29.780 Oh, man.

00:05:30.780 I bought Minecraft back in the day.

00:05:33.900 It was in college.

00:05:34.860 So it was like 2002.

00:05:36.460 I don't know when the game came out, so my numbers could be off, but I bought it like

00:05:40.920 way back then.

00:05:42.000 Did you play it?

00:05:42.620 I did.

00:05:43.440 Yeah, I played it when it was like in beta testing.

00:05:45.900 I felt like such a boomer because several years ago.

00:05:49.400 I shouldn't have said that out loud.

00:05:50.860 I felt like such a boomer because several years ago, the kids were like, yeah, this

00:05:53.820 game, it's Minecraft.

00:05:55.480 And I was like, that's one of the lamest games of all time.

00:05:57.500 I thought they were talking about Minesweeper.

00:05:59.300 Yeah.

00:05:59.480 Yeah.

00:06:00.700 I thought, so not only Minecraft, but then my kids were playing this game on, like, you know, grandparents.

00:06:07.980 They'll be like, oh, here you go.

00:06:09.240 Play on this thing.

00:06:10.280 And they were playing this game where you just tap the screen and there's a little pickaxe.

00:06:14.180 It's just mining down.

00:06:15.920 And I was like, do you win?

00:06:16.980 They're like, no, you just keep digging further.

00:06:19.900 Do you, like, is there any accomplishments?

00:06:22.760 No.

00:06:23.040 The more you tap, the more you dig.

00:06:24.680 That's the whole game.

00:06:26.260 That's it.

00:06:27.500 And I think they would have done it for 22 days straight

00:06:31.500 until they died of deep vein thrombosis.

00:06:34.240 That's probably been allowed.

00:06:35.960 Deep vein thrombosis.

00:06:36.960 So otherwise, I've been really good.

00:06:38.340 We had our conference, and so that went very, very well.

00:06:41.840 Really excited about how that went.

00:06:43.240 Yeah.

00:06:43.680 Very encouraging.

00:06:44.960 Yep.

00:06:45.200 Got to meet a lot of our Kings Hall listeners.

00:06:47.180 Very encouraging to meet those.

00:06:49.080 Yeah, that was great.

00:06:49.960 Everyone who came out listening now, thanks, guys.

00:06:53.180 You're the real kings.

00:06:54.220 It was so great.

00:06:55.580 They are the real kings.

00:06:56.760 Uh, Brian, Dan, today we're going to be talking about the digital matrix and how to keep your

00:07:01.040 kids out of it. But maybe a preliminary question here, because I think if you read, you know,

00:07:06.140 you listen to the cold open, what Dan read, you know, a lot of people would say, oh, this is an

00:07:10.000 episode. They're just bashing video games, maybe a little just for fun, but there's actually a

00:07:14.620 bigger picture here in the digital matrix. So Brian, you kind of came up with this, this term,

00:07:19.780 keeping your kids out of the digital matrix. What do you have in mind with the digital matrix?

00:07:24.440 Maybe what are some of the problems with it?

00:07:26.720 So when we say digital matrix, when I'm talking about that phrase, really what I'm talking about is just the gravity, the massive gravity of the online and digital world, especially as it has developed into all of these central and peripheral technologies.

00:07:45.520 So this digital world is all the time trying to suck every one of us in, not just our kids, but every one of us into it and basically convince us to replace as much of our lives as possible with digital alternatives on the face of it because you can monetize every single one of those steps.

00:08:04.720 So there's a business incentive there, but I think there's more nefarious things as well.

00:08:10.280 Oh, man, are you going to get 1.00

00:08:11.200 Hanukosmos on us? 1.00

00:08:12.500 Are you going to say there's like

00:08:13.480 malevolent demons that are behind

00:08:15.660 the scenes of the digital world

00:08:17.140 pulling the strings?

00:08:18.340 Listen, I'm not going to say that

00:08:20.040 sucking our souls out through our eyes

00:08:21.820 into the TV screens. 0.92

00:08:23.100 I'm not going to say that you're not

00:08:24.620 exactly describing reality right now.

00:08:26.680 I just want, let the record show,

00:08:28.040 Ben Garrett is in the room

00:08:29.720 and he is emphatically nodding his head.

00:08:31.560 He's like, he's like, yes.

00:08:33.460 It's the watchers.

00:08:34.580 So true.

00:08:35.240 When you think about like social media,

00:08:37.440 there's a digital friendship,

00:08:38.760 Digital debate, digital worldview reformation replaces the kind of things that happened at the Eagle and Child pub with Barfield and Lewis and Tolkien, where they got together for friendship, arguing worldview, clash, rhetoric, debate.

00:08:53.680 That used to happen in person.

00:08:55.540 Now it largely happens on social media.

00:08:58.000 Television and movies give you a sensation of living within someone else's stories while you sit there with your mouth hanging open, doing nothing.

00:09:06.040 All these things, they have a place, right?

00:09:08.540 But that's what it is.

00:09:09.940 Video games.

00:09:10.840 Again, digital conquest, adventure, pornography.

00:09:13.380 This doesn't have a place, actually, by the way.

00:09:15.140 But I said all these things have a place.

00:09:16.940 Then I said pornography.

00:09:17.920 No, except this one. 0.99

00:09:19.740 Digital sex. 0.97

00:09:21.120 Smartphones.

00:09:21.860 That's a never-off gateway to all of these things that's never more than three or four feet away from you.

00:09:27.380 And so most of these technologies in and of themselves can be used by a wise person in wise ways.

00:09:35.240 But particularly when it comes to our children and still with us, you know, we're not fully formed. Our children are not wise. These things tend to have this kind of gravity to suck you in and overwhelm your loves.

00:09:48.300 and basically make it so that they're tempted

00:09:52.300 to replace all of the virtues,

00:09:54.700 these long, difficult, deep, but satisfying loves

00:09:58.640 with easy, cheap, fake, instantly available

00:10:01.860 digital alternatives that are fundamentally shallower

00:10:05.700 than their analog or real counterparts.

00:10:08.720 So the digital matrix is like this whole digital world

00:10:11.400 that's trying to suck all of us in.

00:10:13.400 And we as fathers, in this season of fatherhood,

00:10:15.800 we have particular duties to think carefully about this issue yeah so there's an interesting

00:10:22.160 point here that people are on a spectrum here from what what's called like technological luddites

00:10:27.100 people who are like no technology to people who are like you know use it well it's all good yeah

00:10:31.720 um what's interesting to me though is if you study the ways and cal newport talks about this

00:10:36.640 in his book digital minimalism but if you study the ways that like social media is one example

00:10:41.560 They were designed to be as addictive as possible.

00:10:44.820 Yeah.

00:10:45.060 They have things in the Instagram feeds, for example.

00:10:48.080 If they know you're a man, they're going to regularly filter in like pornographic type stuff.

00:10:53.640 Yeah.

00:10:53.940 And then over time, what they're going to do is give you more and more and more.

00:10:57.220 So basically all of this with the notifications that show up on your screen.

00:11:01.480 What do you call those?

00:11:04.280 Alerts?

00:11:05.300 Yeah.

00:11:05.720 It's like push notifications.

00:11:06.820 Push notifications.

00:11:07.680 Yeah.

00:11:07.820 Yeah.

00:11:08.040 That whole system was designed to be a constant dopamine drip that created people who were addicted to checking their phones because people said this is an advertiser's dream.

00:11:19.660 We're in somebody's hand all the time.

00:11:22.520 So I want to ask you guys, when you just generally are thinking of technology, where are you on that spectrum?

00:11:28.980 Is it always bad?

00:11:29.960 Is it always good?

00:11:30.880 Probably somewhere in the middle, but I'm curious your principled take on that.

00:11:38.040 in 2023 indigo sundries became one of our sponsors at the time their business was little

00:11:46.440 more than a side hobby generating a couple hundred dollars a month but because of their

00:11:50.260 partnership with us and because all of you chose to support them they've grown enough to make it

00:11:54.120 their full-time livelihood this is what happens when christians support christians our communities

00:11:58.220 are strengthened and faithful businesses thrive so if you're a christian business owner who wants

00:12:02.380 to reach thousands of like-minded people and grow your company we'd love to partner with you email

00:12:07.160 us at advertising at newchristendompress.com. Yeah. So the way that I relate to technology is

00:12:18.200 that I would be in the middle of the spectrum somewhere where obviously all things we're free

00:12:24.940 to all things to participate in that. So entertainment is, is free for us to participate

00:12:30.400 in with a movie or, or even the use of your cell phone or even the use of social media.

00:12:35.520 there are obviously boundaries in there and so the lines depending on the media the media type

00:12:42.020 the lines the boundaries change but i think that one is free as long as one does not become enslaved

00:12:48.320 to it or is not actively sinning using the thing because there is some form i don't want to say

00:12:54.560 neutrality because it's not neutral but the media itself is just a thing you know just like you know

00:13:00.620 i've got bottles of scotch in front of me one is free to participate if their conscience allows

00:13:05.760 in having a drink but there are boundaries like one is not free to be drunk yeah you know in the

00:13:12.140 same way one is free it as long as it's not immoral to to participate in playing a video game

00:13:19.460 but as soon as one becomes enslaved to it you are not free anymore that's the you are a slave to it

00:13:26.220 You know, and obviously we gave an extreme example in the cold open 22 days straight is shocking. I mean, even the six and a half hours a day is unbelievable. I think it was 88 days within a year and a half of game time that this 17 year old boy had had actually accomplished. That was his accomplishment. Wow.

00:13:48.120 And so for me, part of my past was I used to game a lot.

00:13:51.580 You know, I mentioned Minecraft.

00:13:52.840 I played Call of Duty and other stuff.

00:13:55.320 I won't get too nerdy.

00:13:56.400 I don't want to lose all credibility.

00:13:58.620 And the thing is, one day, so I was about to be married to my now wife.

00:14:04.820 And in my Call of Duty profile, it says how many hours of gameplay that you've done.

00:14:11.500 And this isn't counting like waiting to get into the next match.

00:14:15.640 I can't even remember the terminology.

00:14:18.160 It's been so long.

00:14:19.660 But not just sitting there waiting to get into the next match.

00:14:23.780 So just active gameplay.

00:14:25.480 And it was over five days.

00:14:27.300 Granted, I had had the game for years.

00:14:29.740 But I started thinking about that.

00:14:31.680 I'm like, wait a minute.

00:14:32.220 Five days?

00:14:33.020 That's 24-hour days.

00:14:34.920 Like, that's – I should be a polyglot.

00:14:37.760 Like, I could learn – have learned many languages.

00:14:41.180 How many days was it?

00:14:42.080 It was over five days worth of time in, like, three years.

00:14:46.960 But you know what's funny is that that's not actually that crazy.

00:14:50.160 No.

00:14:50.400 Like, that's not bad.

00:14:51.540 I have heard crazy numbers.

00:14:55.000 Yeah.

00:14:55.300 So you were actually pretty restrained.

00:14:57.120 If that's three years.

00:14:58.080 Well, I hadn't lost my job from playing games at that point, and I had a relationship.

00:15:02.440 And a woman was willing to marry you, clearly.

00:15:04.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:05.920 I mean, that probably—anyway, I'm grateful for it.

00:15:10.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:10.560 So, yeah, but I saw that and I was very convicted over that, over the amount of time that I'd spent doing that.

00:15:18.060 This wasn't supposed to be just like a monologue about me and my interaction with video games.

00:15:23.160 But once I got married, I stopped because I realized that this was something that that was better off not being in my life.

00:15:31.940 Not because I think that video games are as a whole, as a category, immoral, but because my interaction with them, I was becoming enslaved to it.

00:15:41.800 And so I decided that was not something that I needed.

00:15:44.340 Also, I became convinced that, you know, it's really, I said in the cold open that a lot of guys that are attracted to video games, it's because you can get victory in a life that's so hard to win in.

00:15:59.020 it's really hard to win in real life yeah and you get those cheap dopamine hits and then at the end

00:16:06.740 you've accomplished absolutely nothing like i could pawn some noobs in call of duty and attain

00:16:14.320 victory and like video game glory but then ultimately i'm on a tv screen alone in my bedroom

00:16:20.940 with a video game controller growing paler by the day weaker more sickly so anyway that's that's how

00:16:29.660 i interact with video games i still feel free like if i you know go to someone's house and

00:16:34.800 they would say hey you want to play a game of madden or something like that i think that that's

00:16:37.920 fine yeah like i don't have a problem with it but for me in my house that's what i've determined is

00:16:42.140 that video games just aren't going to be part of my kid's childhood and it's not going to be part

00:16:48.680 my life. Well, it's interesting. And Brian, I'm curious your thoughts as you talk about kind of

00:16:53.640 what your principles are here. But one of the things we'll delve into in the show, Jean Twenge,

00:16:57.960 in her book, iGen, she talks about how the latest generation, Gen Z, has been shaped more than any

00:17:05.520 other feature, more than any other generation has been by this technological change. So 07,

00:17:11.800 smartphone iphone comes out 2012 then you have the ipad it's been a radical shift and particularly

00:17:19.560 what she argues is that it's affected kids so i i would say it's one thing we have to think through

00:17:26.840 as mature adults but then there's something else for the kids too because kids are particularly

00:17:32.460 vulnerable to these forms of medium and technology has changed you remember people were amusing

00:17:38.280 ourselves to death books like that oh yeah they were concerned about tv tv got nothing on smartphones

00:17:44.300 oh yeah no absolutely if neil postman were alive today because that book was so prescient yeah and

00:17:50.480 so prophetic it's amazing how much of it he predicted without even knowing the way that it

00:17:55.180 would go but but i would his his book on smartphones if that was like a a five alarm fire this would be

00:18:01.680 like there are nuclear bombs in the air type of alert. I mean, it's such an intensification of

00:18:09.360 the same issues. Does that change then the way that you think through these? It does for me

00:18:14.720 in terms of like, I'm not handing my 16-year-old an iPhone and saying, have at it, good luck.

00:18:19.740 No. And I think a lot of this that you have to remember, many of us who are making these kinds

00:18:25.760 of decisions, a lot of our listeners are millennials or older. We have a lot of Zoomer

00:18:30.080 listeners too who are you know obviously born after like 95 96 but if you were born in the 80s

00:18:36.560 early 90s like not before 1995 I think is about the cutoff then you probably had a largely analog

00:18:43.120 childhood uh that was my even I'm the youngest one of on the King's Hall by a couple years like

00:18:51.420 how great I can't even remember I'm 32 you guys are late 30s I wasn't even thinking about that

00:18:57.180 So I'm 38.

00:18:58.960 Dan's 38.

00:19:00.580 I didn't even have – so I got my first phone.

00:19:03.580 I think I was probably 16.

00:19:05.660 And it was one of those tiny little Nokia brick phones.

00:19:08.840 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:19:09.700 And it was awesome because you could play Snake on it.

00:19:12.460 You had Snake?

00:19:13.580 It was an analog phone.

00:19:14.880 Bro, you were living in 3008.

00:19:16.640 I was in 2008.

00:19:17.980 Yeah.

00:19:18.640 So then I think my first smartphone –

00:19:20.780 I'm sorry.

00:19:21.440 My first smartphone, honestly, was my in-laws bought me one of those Droid, Motorola Droid,

00:19:28.940 and it had, like, the keyboard and everything.

00:19:30.620 Oh, yeah.

00:19:31.600 So jank compared to, like, what phones are now.

00:19:33.940 Yeah.

00:19:34.480 But I was probably 24, 25.

00:19:37.640 Yeah.

00:19:38.180 I was almost a pastor before I got a smartphone.

00:19:41.220 I didn't get a cell phone until I was 16, 17.

00:19:43.680 And then became a pastor.

00:19:44.360 And it was a non-smartphone.

00:19:47.420 I didn't even have a snake.

00:19:48.340 Like, we got it because my parents were saying, you know, if you're going to go drive a car, you have to be able to get in touch with us, which is a rule that we made up at that point.

00:19:57.320 It's funny if you think about it.

00:19:58.280 Like, before that, you didn't have to have a phone, but had the phone, grew up.

00:20:03.860 I mean, I owned a house.

00:20:05.740 I was married before I owned a smartphone.

00:20:09.640 And I was born in 91.

00:20:11.020 so you get I mean

00:20:12.980 think about the difference in the way that

00:20:15.420 we were formed in that

00:20:17.540 mostly analog childhood

00:20:19.200 playing outside if you wanted

00:20:21.140 we had some video game stuff I mean we had

00:20:23.500 an N64 at one point and the

00:20:25.540 way I interacted with it was my brother would

00:20:27.460 play Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time

00:20:29.280 and I would like because it was

00:20:31.480 a strategy game I would

00:20:33.460 be like hey you should go do I never played

00:20:35.460 it but I could beat the game I think you know

00:20:37.480 still just from watching

00:20:39.400 But that was about it.

00:20:40.100 It was Duck Hunter.

00:20:41.280 It was some of those Mario Kart type games or whatever.

00:20:44.460 And that was like probably didn't even turn it on in the average week growing up.

00:20:50.100 Well, I can think like my mom was – she would listen to like Focus on the Family.

00:20:55.200 And so like Plugged In Online had just come out.

00:20:57.940 And they still have that, by the way.

00:20:59.320 They'll evaluate movies and say like here's what's bad and good and here's what to think through.

00:21:03.940 Really helpful actually.

00:21:05.180 But I remember like at that time they were really addressing like it was movies and music.

00:21:09.940 That's really where you had to guard your kids.

00:21:11.640 And I guess my point with all of this is today there's so many more fronts that are so much closer and in your home next to your kids all the time.

00:21:19.700 And I think a lot of Christians – I want to ask this question what you guys think. 0.98

00:21:24.800 What are some of the dumb things Christian parents do? 0.99

00:21:27.980 But I think one of them is like the number of pastors I've talked to where they're like, we have 15-year-old kids sending each other inappropriate, naked Snapchats. 0.99

00:21:38.520 It's literally felonies.

00:21:40.200 Like Snapchat is a big one because the messages disappear.

00:21:44.140 There are certain technologies where I'm like, nobody in our – I've just said nobody in our house has Snapchat.

00:21:49.540 Yeah, you just –

00:21:50.240 Not helpful, not good.

00:21:51.080 Certain things off limits.

00:21:52.620 Just don't even do that.

00:21:53.580 So again, what are maybe some other poor ways, I guess, that parents think through these types of issues or deal with them?

00:22:00.440 Well, I mean, one of the things that's always shocking to me is when I go out in public or to the park or I see Christmas photos from friends on Facebook or whatever, it seems like their kids have iPads with, like, the rubber handles, the case.

00:22:19.600 Yeah, and they just, like, they're glued to these things.

00:22:22.100 Yeah.

00:22:22.740 And the thing that's happening with that is constant dopamine hits, constant with these kids.

00:22:30.440 there's a lack of eye movement. It's really bad for development, childhood development and things

00:22:36.520 like that. And so one of the things that I'm really cognizant of with my children is, and we

00:22:42.520 do have an iPad specifically for the kids, but it is for a reading program for Barron, and I don't

00:22:50.000 really like it. I don't think it's a very good program. But anyway, my wife does use it on

00:22:55.100 occasion, is that I'm thinking through the amount of screen time that my young children

00:22:59.940 have not, I mean, because the TV principles still apply, you know, you talked about Neil Postman

00:23:06.620 and a lot of his stuff with television. That's, that's not gone away. No, it's just been amplified

00:23:12.700 with other devices like an iPad and like a smartphone. And I'm sure any of us with small

00:23:18.940 children can relate to, you know, if you show your kids a funny video on YouTube or on social

00:23:25.500 media or whatever and all of a sudden they're like frantic they just want more they want more

00:23:31.460 and more and more and they will never be satiated yeah you know just like your kids with the that 0.84

00:23:36.760 ridiculous digging game or you know that's just how kids work but just like kids with candy i mean

00:23:41.200 they have like no filter for like i should stop now right right so you have to filter a lot of 0.53

00:23:46.360 that and it's really became in a when we're watching too much tv i know because i go to read

00:23:52.400 to my kids at night and they're like no reading i want tv yeah and i'm like amelia we're not doing

00:23:58.440 tv no tv yeah uh because that that is a big problem because there are certain things that

00:24:04.100 i want to foster in my children loves and preferences and things like that that's part

00:24:08.960 of the cultural outflow of my house like i want them to love certain things and to not

00:24:14.720 prefer other things and so the things i want them to prefer are books and if your children

00:24:20.500 are being raised on the constant dopamine hits of videos, and this goes for adults too,

00:24:26.360 because you're training your appetites, is that you start to despise things like reading.

00:24:31.180 It becomes boring because your brain is thirsting for that dopamine hit and it's not coming.

00:24:37.900 And so I can't remember what your question was because I've rambled on for so long.

00:24:42.360 But when I'm looking at my young kids, I really want to put barriers up on all screens

00:24:47.640 and use them sparingly and use them sparingly so yeah some dumb things parents do with technology

00:24:56.200 and screens i would say let us count the ways okay babysitting with with television

00:25:04.340 in youtube where you let them watch youtube channels or youtube creators mr beast things

00:25:10.840 that you go like this is family friendly stuff a lot of it but i'm gonna put that on to basically

00:25:16.840 anesthetize my children because the thing is children are really difficult and loud and

00:25:22.320 unself-controlled you have to be the external control factor as they grow up with the aim of

00:25:29.300 forming in them the internal self-rule they need to be ruled externally until they have that and

00:25:36.000 then there's a handoff this dance you know as they become even 10 11 12 up up into their adult years

00:25:43.380 So what you're doing, a dumb thing parents do, is that they actually use what is the equivalent of digital anesthesia to instead of forming that mechanism of self-mastery where their kids have to learn to get along, to push through difficult things, to go outside, to do things that take a minute for them to be enjoyable.

00:26:04.380 You have to learn, ride your bikes, get skinned knees, build a fort, go sweat, get dirty outside, play with friends, all of that. 0.91

00:26:13.380 All of those things take a while, and those build up that muscle.

00:26:17.760 The more and more you anesthetize your children for your own convenience, you're actually eroding that mechanism formation.

00:26:25.280 You're preventing it from happening.

00:26:26.700 That's really interesting you bring that up because Eric and I had talked at great length about this on Wilderness Warrior, which is a throwback way back in time.

00:26:35.840 Because the question is constantly asked, like, when you describe elk hunting, it sounds like one of the most horrible things a human being can do.

00:26:43.800 It sounds terrible.

00:26:44.800 Because you are literally miserable the whole time.

00:26:46.940 And we've all experienced this, right?

00:26:48.400 Oh, yeah.

00:26:49.100 You go on a backpacking trip or you go camping or whatever it might be.

00:26:53.200 Yeah.

00:26:53.420 And really, the whole experience is awful.

00:26:58.200 It's not pleasant.

00:27:00.220 And then you get done and you look back and you're like, that was amazing.

00:27:03.320 We definitely want to do that again.

00:27:05.220 It's like the long fun versus the quick hit fun.

00:27:08.360 And the thing that I remember we compared it to is like, yeah, it's junk food.

00:27:12.380 Yeah, right.

00:27:12.680 Well, it's like you go to a movie and you're like, yeah, that was fun.

00:27:15.420 And you never remember it.

00:27:17.020 Like it's a quick hit.

00:27:19.700 It's like junk food, like the sugar rush.

00:27:21.700 It's pleasurable in the moment.

00:27:23.420 As my uncle always said, moment on the lips is a lifetime on the hips.

00:27:27.580 Anyway, I don't know what that has to do with anything. 1.00

00:27:29.920 But it's true.

00:27:30.540 Same principle.

00:27:31.800 But the long fun is something that has to be trained, like to endure the suffering because it's worth it in the long run, which is life, right?

00:27:39.720 The cultivation of a healthy marriage, the raising of your children, all of that is long, difficult work.

00:27:47.140 And when you start passing on the quick hit, the anesthetized parenting, that's how your children are being trained to actually interact with life.

00:27:58.560 So you can see this.

00:28:00.000 I'm sure we've all experienced it before.

00:28:01.440 You're sitting down.

00:28:02.240 You have to write something.

00:28:03.380 Difficult email, some boring essay for school or something difficult for work spreadsheet.

00:28:11.340 And immediately your brain is like, I want to do anything but this.

00:28:14.860 And you, without intention even, open Twitter, open Facebook, open YouTube, whatever it is, because you've trained yourself that when things get hard, you distract.

00:28:27.080 Yeah. Seek the easy thing.

00:28:28.920 Exactly. Exactly. So that is something that you definitely have to guard against with your kids.

00:28:35.060 And you're training yourself, too, in that. So you're also, it's interesting, you're taking the same mechanism and method, you're eroding in yourself the same thing you're eroding in your children, which is difficulty of actually raising and loving and parenting your children.

00:28:54.320 And this isn't, again, like if you make this into an all or nothing sort of thing, like if you ever watch something with your kids or you ever let your children watch something, then you're an idiot. 0.98

00:29:04.880 Well, no, no, that's not what we're saying at all. 0.97

00:29:07.040 There is a time and a place where it's like in our family we try to make it a family event.

00:29:13.280 We're going to watch River Monsters and watch Jeremy Wade catch a 13-foot stingray in Southeast Asia, and it's going to be amazing.

00:29:21.320 And we're all going to talk about it and we're going to joke about it later. It's going to be a shared thing that a part of our family vernacular that they know about river monsters and strange lore about catfish in the Amazon River and stuff.

00:29:33.980 So that's one error, I think. Another one, though, is simply treating these – failing to recognize that while the technology itself can often be a tool and tools can be used for good or evil, what you're actually talking about with technology is not mere technology but ecosystems that are created by people who hate you.

00:29:55.220 so a mistake is to fail to recognize as a parent that when you step into youtube you are in a

00:30:03.540 world that is created by people who hate you and hate god you just i mean it google owns the thing

00:30:09.360 and that means they are not interested in forming christ in you and so my children like

00:30:15.580 we watched some mr beast videos here and there and i was like after a little bit of that i was

00:30:21.920 like we're done with this we're done with this it's i can see how the way he edits videos the

00:30:28.300 way that the content the people that they're promoting is like none of this is neutral even

00:30:33.260 when it's wrapped in a really shiny package that seems quote unquote family friendly so a mistake

00:30:40.500 is to just think if it doesn't have any cussing or nudity or sexuality overtly well then it's fine

00:30:47.540 But no, no, no, media inherently is forming in us an idea of what is good and true and beautiful.

00:30:52.240 That's one of the things God made it to do.

00:30:54.900 Yeah.

00:30:55.420 Yeah, I think that's really helpful.

00:30:56.740 I was thinking of this recently.

00:30:58.260 One of the principles we've used is in Ephesians 3 and 4, this concept of as we're watching,

00:31:05.300 is my mind being conformed to the image of the world or is it being transformed by the Spirit?

00:31:11.500 And so as you're watching these things, I think a lot of times it's being critical of what you're watching.

00:31:15.640 but being aware of the ecosystem

00:31:17.640 I remember when the Mandalorian

00:31:19.900 came out we signed up for Disney Plus

00:31:22.080 watched the show and then cancelled it

00:31:23.880 because I can't stand Disney

00:31:25.720 but a lot of people what will they do

00:31:27.680 is just like turn your kids loose on Disney Plus

00:31:29.920 it's Disney

00:31:30.840 but like you can read the headlines

00:31:33.200 there was one in the past week

00:31:34.940 Disney is introducing a new LGBT clothing line

00:31:38.160 that is they say specifically

00:31:39.980 targeted at winning kids

00:31:42.060 wow

00:31:44.000 So, again, Netflix, same thing.

00:31:46.440 They had the cuties, the little kids who are – it's like pedophilia.

00:31:49.700 How do you put a millstone on a whole company?

00:31:51.700 Yeah.

00:31:52.520 Is that –

00:31:53.120 So I think what we have to say is like that's who these people are.

00:31:57.340 Brian, you've said this a lot.

00:31:58.500 Like stop doing business with people who hate you.

00:32:00.700 And so as much as possible, we know these people are coming after your kids.

00:32:04.060 I think, as you said, having a screen babysitter is a problem because you're basically giving them unfettered access.

00:32:10.200 and then you're not sitting there with them being able to evaluate,

00:32:14.620 being able to say, hey.

00:32:16.200 Some of this will be age-appropriate too, right?

00:32:18.980 When your kids are four, you can't really have a conversation with them

00:32:22.580 about the good, true, and beautiful in the same way as if they're 16 0.99

00:32:25.060 and you're saying, this is why this is garbage. 0.99

00:32:27.480 Yep. 0.73

00:32:27.920 So I think being aware of ages as well is really helpful.

00:32:33.340 You guys have heard me mention John Michael Clark over at The Family Captain before.

00:32:37.280 Well, The Family Captain is all about practical coaching for Christian husbands in family leadership and sex in marriage.

00:32:44.340 That's right.

00:32:45.140 John Michael has an awesome system and program over there that's helped a ton of guys level up and go from being happily married to ecstatically married.

00:32:54.320 Well, The Family Captain has a conference coming up in Nashville this September 14th, 15th, and 16th, where John Michael, who is also a pastor, is going to be speaking.

00:33:03.120 Of course, but they've also got Ryan Frederick of Fierce Marriage.

00:33:06.780 Ryan's been in the marriage ministry game for a while now.

00:33:09.460 He's a solid brother, and they've got Pastor Dylan Davis as well,

00:33:12.720 who happens to be one of the alumni of the Family Captain Program.

00:33:16.500 So it's going to be an awesome weekend where husbands will be encouraged

00:33:19.340 and equipped in practical self-leadership and family leadership.

00:33:23.340 So you guys should definitely check that out.

00:33:25.240 And John Michael wanted the listeners of the Kings Hall podcast

00:33:28.160 to have 10% off on the conference.

00:33:30.940 So when you register, use the code KINGSHALL, all caps,

00:33:35.540 King's Hall to get that coupon. So that's Nashville, September 14th to the 16th code.

00:33:42.020 King's Hall, all caps, no spaces, and search The Family Captain on Eventbrite.

00:33:50.980 So gentlemen, one of the things I want to talk about for just a moment is the unique ways that

00:33:55.700 smartphones impact children. I mentioned Jean Twenge earlier, and I would definitely recommend

00:34:01.100 the book. She has a book called iGen. Why today's super connected kids are growing up less rebellious,

00:34:06.620 more tolerant, less happy and completely unprepared for adulthood. So, as I said,

00:34:13.180 one of the things she argues is that our latest generation has been shaped more than anything

00:34:18.480 by the smartphone. Of course, the iPhone made its debut in 2007. But most notably,

00:34:25.220 in all of the data and everything that she's written, she tells of how children and teenagers

00:34:30.440 have been completely rewired by digital media so she argues that this has caused widespread

00:34:36.840 depression and anxiety which we've all seen in the psychological data as well as declining

00:34:43.440 mental health particularly among young people so i want to read a quote this is from the atlantic

00:34:48.500 and she says this the more i poured over yearly surveys of teen attitudes and behaviors

00:34:54.520 and the more i talked with young people the clearer it became that theirs is a generation

00:34:59.040 shaped by the smartphone and by the concomitant rise of social media.

00:35:03.160 And so I have called them iGen.

00:35:05.000 They are born between 1995 and 2012.

00:35:07.980 They are members of this generation and growing up with smartphones.

00:35:10.800 They have Instagram accounts before they start high school,

00:35:13.440 and they do not remember a time before the internet, unlike, as we said, us.

00:35:18.920 The millennials grew up with the web as well,

00:35:21.120 but it wasn't ever present in their lives at hand at all times, day and night.

00:35:25.260 iGen's oldest members were early adolescents

00:35:27.240 when the iPhone was introduced in 2007

00:35:29.600 and high school students

00:35:31.360 when the iPad entered the scene in 2010.

00:35:34.200 A 2017 survey of more than 5,000 American teens

00:35:37.380 found that three of four owned an iPhone.

00:35:41.360 She goes on,

00:35:42.040 psychologically, however,

00:35:43.140 they are more vulnerable than millennials were.

00:35:45.820 Rates of teen depression and suicide

00:35:47.340 have skyrocketed since 2011.

00:35:49.740 So you'll see in all this, by the way,

00:35:51.300 this is my comment,

00:35:52.620 that the data and the rise of anxiety,

00:35:54.640 it's parallel with everything going on with technology so she goes on it's not an exaggeration

00:36:02.060 to describe ijen as being on the brink of the worst mental health crisis in decades much of

00:36:08.140 this deterioration can be traced to their phones but the twin rise of the smartphone and social

00:36:12.720 media has caused an earthquake of a magnitude we've not seen in a very long time if ever

00:36:17.360 there is compelling evidence that the devices we've placed in young people's hands are having

00:36:21.620 profound effects on their lives and making them seriously unhappy so essentially twangy that's

00:36:27.460 the end of the quote twangy argues that young people today are content to hold themselves up

00:36:31.720 in their rooms and live life through a screen so she's a sociologist of sorts she she'll interview

00:36:37.020 these kids she's like what do you do for fun time do you go to the mall because she's thinking like

00:36:41.480 that's what we did do you go hang out with your friends at the mall and they're like no we just

00:36:45.740 go in our room and we're on snapchat all day long we got leeches at the base pond that's what we did

00:36:50.740 for fun well first of all this reminds me a lot of anthony eselin especially with boys but like

00:36:57.320 why boys need these outside activities you need unrestricted play to some extent i mean i'm just

00:37:05.200 thinking of my boyhood but dan i'm curious like i'm sure in wisconsin you guys had some killer

00:37:09.840 adventures as boys oh man yeah so i grew up probably no surprise with a cornfield in my

00:37:16.320 backyard and so there were many adventures to be had so i had probably 360 acres that were

00:37:22.640 completely open behind me and then there was woods all around me so there was a creek nearby

00:37:26.160 so we'd go and get get in trouble in the creek dig through the mud you know shoot sparrows with

00:37:32.240 a bb gun no we didn't do that no one would ever do that no one would blow gonna swallow through

00:37:37.660 the head while flying right dude that one of my greatest accomplishments i'm not yeah i mean my

00:37:43.220 My uncle had, he was a manager of a Christian youth camp, and so we would spend a lot of time up there helping him.

00:37:49.100 He also had a lake home, and so we spent a lot of time out on the water, tons of time fishing.

00:37:54.120 Oh, my word, so much time fishing and hunting, and yeah, it was, I mean, it was great.

00:38:00.400 Brian, was your French-Canadian-English upbringing similar, or were you guys having tea time?

00:38:05.820 No, you know, so Ohio, earliest memories, we had a creek behind our house,

00:38:10.900 and as a four-year-old it seemed like a like the huck finn mississippi i mean but it was

00:38:16.540 literally probably a three-foot wide creek trickles little snakes and like we'd always be

00:38:21.460 back there uh in england we lived in a typical london sort of outlying akadem neighborhood so

00:38:28.620 brick houses lots of parks we'd ride bikes neighborhood kids climb trees we'd go and

00:38:36.120 Like on these long bike rides all through, moved to Utah, lived on base for a long time,

00:38:42.660 and that was a very sheltered environment.

00:38:44.240 So my parents would just literally say, here's a bicycle.

00:38:47.020 We'd go to the pond.

00:38:48.260 We'd go to the base, shop at, and buy Jones Coast sodas, and then just hood rat around.

00:38:53.400 Mike, it was the dream.

00:38:55.520 It was amazing.

00:38:56.160 It was so good.

00:38:57.000 So I want to take those experiences.

00:38:58.760 I want to compare them to a piece of data.

00:39:00.920 Well, you didn't share your own.

00:39:02.140 Yeah, I know.

00:39:02.520 I will.

00:39:02.820 Oh, okay.

00:39:04.100 Dude, I'm the hard man.

00:39:05.660 I was, like, wild man in the wilderness.

00:39:08.800 Eric was raised by badgers. 1.00

00:39:10.840 Lifting weights is for girls. 0.93

00:39:12.300 I lifted heavy stones. 1.00

00:39:14.040 I lifted tree houses.

00:39:15.820 Okay.

00:39:16.700 With live trees.

00:39:18.260 That's right.

00:39:19.100 How did you know that?

00:39:19.980 I just, you know.

00:39:20.980 You just knew.

00:39:21.340 I sensed it.

00:39:22.100 So I want to read this quote.

00:39:24.220 This is from one of Gene Twenge's articles.

00:39:26.480 It's describing our young people today.

00:39:28.740 And I just want to compare and contrast two different ways of growing up and how maybe you think it impacts people differently.

00:39:34.620 so she said this this is a 2022 article from the new york times quote overall screen use among

00:39:41.680 teens and tweens increased by 17 from 2019 to 2021 that's drastic growing more rapidly than

00:39:49.300 into the four years prior on average daily screen use went up among tweens ages 8 to 12

00:39:55.000 to 5 hours and 33 minutes from 4 hours and 44 minutes and to 8 hours and 39 minutes from 7

00:40:01.820 hours and 22 minutes for teens 13 to 18 so these young people gentlemen are i mean think about that

00:40:09.580 over five hours a day on your phone what i mean it's eight to 12 unfathomable yesterday my screen

00:40:17.900 time alert said i spent 58 minutes on my phone but i think that was a phone call you were like i was

00:40:23.460 i was on the phone calm down yeah the uh we didn't even have a tv we didn't own one until we were

00:40:30.460 like three kids in and they were like oh we'll get a tv and it was like this we would take it out of

00:40:36.200 the closet and set it up we had a dvd player and then like a year ago we got a tv that we keep in

00:40:44.540 the nursery and it was connected to the internet and we're like this is amazing you can just with

00:40:49.620 the remote you can just watch something that you buy on amazon you don't even need to go to red

00:40:55.220 or ask Amazon to mail you a DVD.

00:40:57.840 It was crazy.

00:40:58.420 You guys remember that, by the way?

00:40:59.960 Yeah.

00:41:00.260 Oh, I remember that.

00:41:01.120 Netflix used to mail DVDs.

00:41:01.560 Absolutely.

00:41:02.640 Yeah.

00:41:03.000 Lexi and I did that.

00:41:03.820 We actually were on that.

00:41:04.820 You could choose, like, do I want one disc at a time, two?

00:41:07.860 A lot of times they didn't work because they were all scratched up.

00:41:11.660 No one ever rewound my DVDs.

00:41:12.900 I remember, actually, when Netflix introduced, they were like,

00:41:16.120 hey, we're not going to send DVDs anymore.

00:41:18.720 We're just going to do this streaming thing. 1.00

00:41:20.220 And I was like, these idiots, this is never going to take off. 1.00

00:41:22.420 You're like, this is dumb. 1.00

00:41:25.220 It took off. 1.00

00:41:26.140 They were right.

00:41:27.300 I can just go to the Blockbuster.

00:41:28.920 This is like right around the corner.

00:41:30.420 Someone, when they stole our-

00:41:31.720 Hollywood video.

00:41:32.580 We have a business card for New Christian Impressin that was recently stolen.

00:41:36.160 One of the things they bought with it was a red box DVD rental.

00:41:39.940 Oh, boy.

00:41:40.280 And I was like, people still apparently do that.

00:41:42.340 I don't think I have a DVD player.

00:41:44.400 Nor have I for years.

00:41:45.180 I don't own one.

00:41:46.000 Years.

00:41:46.920 Yeah, no.

00:41:47.720 I have one.

00:41:48.660 You do?

00:41:49.180 Well, it's in the Xbox.

00:41:51.520 Oh, okay.

00:41:53.200 Sinner.

00:41:53.580 Okay.

00:41:53.960 Sinner. 0.92

00:41:54.520 But that's crazy.

00:41:55.480 Like, what is it?

00:41:56.080 Five, almost five and a half hours.

00:41:59.300 A day.

00:41:59.760 Eight to 12.

00:42:00.840 A day.

00:42:02.180 That's crazy.

00:42:02.980 Well, it goes up.

00:42:04.160 People, let's see, 13 to 18 are on there for eight hours and 39 minutes.

00:42:11.840 I mean, if we're going to be honest, I'm on my screen for like, I don't know, nine hours plus a day.

00:42:17.440 On your smartphone?

00:42:18.020 Just work on a computer.

00:42:18.880 Yeah, does it count like?

00:42:20.240 Well, this is smartphones.

00:42:21.520 Oh, okay, it's just smartphone?

00:42:22.680 Okay.

00:42:23.060 Smartphone and tablet.

00:42:25.560 Okay, so it's not counting like you're working on a thing for school on your laptop or something.

00:42:30.540 Wow, okay, that is literally crazy.

00:42:32.740 So your childhood, you spent eight hours a day watching television?

00:42:37.000 No, in fact, much like Brian said, I think we got a TV when I was maybe like six or seven.

00:42:43.120 We lived in Paonia, Colorado for most of my young adult life.

00:42:47.840 My dad was a coal miner.

00:42:49.400 Honestly, like, there wasn't anything really on TV anyway.

00:42:52.860 Uh, we lived in the mountains.

00:42:54.280 You, I think you could buy cable, but I remember back then, like my dad would always say things

00:42:58.500 like, he's like, what do you think we are?

00:42:59.720 Like filthy rich.

00:43:00.720 We don't have no cable.

00:43:02.020 What did mom make Johnny cake and beans with fat back pork or something?

00:43:07.000 Basically.

00:43:07.580 Is that wow.

00:43:08.340 Actually most of the time.

00:43:09.260 So most of my childhood experience, most of my childhood experience was like on the

00:43:14.740 weekends, in the nights, the evenings, my dad would be like, Hey, let's go fish.

00:43:18.500 We did a lot of fishing, backpacking, eventually hunting when we got older.

00:43:23.540 A lot of ranches in the nearby area.

00:43:26.480 So I remember like one rancher, he would pay us,

00:43:28.780 it was like a dollar for every magpie we shot with a .22.

00:43:32.240 What?

00:43:33.000 Now they're endangered.

00:43:34.220 That's the great.

00:43:35.060 No, they're not endangered, are they?

00:43:36.680 Protected.

00:43:37.200 They're protected.

00:43:37.920 That's the great.

00:43:38.720 Like if you told my kids there is a job, $1 a bird.

00:43:42.280 Yeah.

00:43:42.880 They would be like, you're joking.

00:43:44.180 They'd think I was a fed.

00:43:49.260 Whoa.

00:43:50.560 The feds.

00:43:51.200 Sorry, Ray.

00:43:51.940 Sorry, Ray.

00:43:52.860 They would think that I was a fed trying to trap them in something that couldn't possibly be true, something so elite.

00:44:00.600 Yeah, so that's literally what we'd do.

00:44:02.100 We'd go down to the – there was a river near our house.

00:44:05.200 Me and my brother would throw rocks in it, jump in the creek. 1.00

00:44:08.560 The little mudskippers, we called them. 1.00

00:44:11.220 I don't know what they actually are. 1.00

00:44:13.020 The little bugs and toads and stuff like that.

00:44:14.900 We would always catch those.

00:44:17.440 And then later, my life did change.

00:44:19.460 We eventually moved to Littleton.

00:44:21.820 So we spent, it's basically a suburb of Denver.

00:44:24.240 That lifestyle was very different.

00:44:25.880 We still were in the Boy Scouts, so we'd go camping.

00:44:27.920 We'd do a lot of hunting and fishing, that sort of thing.

00:44:30.040 But being in the city is very different.

00:44:32.400 But, yeah, it's just interesting because I look at that.

00:44:35.520 And even to this day, like my dad, he's almost 70.

00:44:41.020 They don't really watch a lot of TV.

00:44:43.120 They don't buy cable.

00:44:45.000 He works on the house.

00:44:46.300 He works on the yard.

00:44:47.300 He works on vehicles.

00:44:49.780 Just very active.

00:44:50.660 It doesn't have to do any of that stuff.

00:44:52.580 But I think it's just a difference generationally.

00:44:55.380 Now, it is interesting.

00:44:56.200 I'll note this.

00:44:56.920 I've seen this in the grandparents' generation.

00:44:59.620 A lot of them ended up being, like, the Fox News all-day crowd.

00:45:03.580 Right.

00:45:04.460 So that probably sends up a lot of the metrics for, like, TV usage.

00:45:08.580 Because you're like, guys, listen, Sean Hannity is saying the same thing again today.

00:45:12.880 Tune in.

00:45:13.680 Yeah, yeah.

00:45:14.480 So, yeah, that's kind of interesting how they kind of went more toward TV.

00:45:18.320 But a lot of that generation, too, I think the smartphone is just kind of like annoying to them because they grew up without it.

00:45:24.680 Yeah.

00:45:24.880 My dad would always call it an electronic leash.

00:45:27.680 So anyway.

00:45:28.600 It's not wrong.

00:45:29.220 It's not wrong.

00:45:30.380 My kid's great grandmother is in town right now.

00:45:32.740 People in the family were telling her about my music that I released.

00:45:36.920 And her describing how to listen to it was so hilarious.

00:45:43.320 She was like, so you got to get it.

00:45:46.300 Is it a DVD?

00:45:47.920 Do I have to get a DVD?

00:45:49.880 And I was like, I'm not even going to try to explain streaming on Spotify to Gigi Ma because it's not going to happen.

00:45:57.260 Her experience was like she gets her phone.

00:46:00.200 The only thing she does is she calls and texts everybody in the family, takes pictures like of everything.

00:46:06.880 That generation, when you gave them a smartphone, it was hilarious the things they take pictures of.

00:46:13.880 Or an iPad.

00:46:14.940 Or an iPad.

00:46:15.600 Yeah, they're taking pictures of the iPad.

00:46:17.460 Which is great.

00:46:18.480 Yes.

00:46:18.800 It's so good.

00:46:19.380 The generation thing is so underappreciated in developing a strategy for how to relate in fatherhood to our children.

00:46:28.860 Because we just have to get that their reality is totally different. 0.96

00:46:35.320 Yeah.

00:46:35.540 Their world is so, so completely different than even the 90s.

00:46:41.020 I mean, even the early 2000s.

00:46:42.680 The world today in 2020s, like I look at my kids' birthdays and I'm like, you were born in 2023?

00:46:51.620 How is that even?

00:46:52.520 People can be born in 2020.

00:46:54.820 Well, I mean, the first iPhone coming out in 2007, I remember 2007.

00:46:59.380 Yeah, I remember that.

00:47:00.340 I was in college in 2007.

00:47:02.740 Good night.

00:47:03.420 Yeah.

00:47:03.700 Yeah.

00:47:04.200 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:47:05.260 I remember one guy at our church got it.

00:47:07.220 He had the original iPhone.

00:47:08.540 Like the tiny.

00:47:09.080 It was, yeah, I won't say it, but I know who it was.

00:47:11.400 He still goes to our church, and I was like, whoa, this is like a going-to-the-moon level of technology.

00:47:19.600 It was so crazy.

00:47:20.700 Honestly, the first thing that I remember about it that kind of was actually a big deal was mapping.

00:47:27.220 Oh, yeah, no more.

00:47:28.680 Printing MapQuest.

00:47:29.240 We printed MapQuest, kids.

00:47:31.060 You don't understand what it was like to try to go somewhere.

00:47:34.320 You go on a trip, you're going to fly somewhere, and in your backpack,

00:47:38.080 You make sure you've got your MapQuest directions to get from a rental car to your hotel room.

00:47:42.940 Well, even my oldest, we were having this conversation.

00:47:46.580 He was like, Dad, if you guys didn't have, like, GPS maps on your phone, like, you and Mom used to drive across the country from, like, Colorado to Maryland.

00:47:53.760 How'd you do it?

00:47:54.380 And I was like, we literally had a Rand McNally, and the number of times our marriage was tested and strengthened because we went three hours in the wrong direction.

00:48:03.340 Oh, yeah.

00:48:04.060 Unbelievable.

00:48:05.200 I mean, it just happened all the time.

00:48:07.140 You had to kind of figure out where you were on the map.

00:48:09.520 We'd be like, what state are we in?

00:48:10.840 She's like, this has been a map of the Czech Republic the whole time, Eric.

00:48:14.740 She's like, we're not in Kansas.

00:48:16.140 We're in Wyoming.

00:48:17.140 And you're like, dang it.

00:48:18.340 They look the same.

00:48:19.240 That explains a lot.

00:48:20.300 That really does explain a lot.

00:48:22.280 Yeah, it's very interesting.

00:48:23.340 One of the things, Brian, you mentioned as we were preparing for this show,

00:48:25.960 I looked this up.

00:48:26.860 The best I could find was Bruce Willis in the fifth element,

00:48:30.500 the kids watching TV, and he says, don't watch that all day.

00:48:33.960 It'll rot your brain, kid.

00:48:35.180 So true.

00:48:35.540 So my question for you guys, do you think it rots kids' brains?

00:48:39.340 Is that a real – we look at all this data.

00:48:42.620 Does it rot people's brains?

00:48:43.840 I'm going to load this even more as – think about that question. 0.99

00:48:47.600 So recently I was reading Abigail Schreier's book, Irreversible Damage, talking about transgenderism.

00:48:53.040 And it's particularly aimed at young women.

00:48:56.040 One of the things she points out is that all this gender dysphoria and trans ideology being pushed on children 0.98

00:49:01.480 is predominantly being pushed and is effective

00:49:04.440 for that 8 to 12 range of people who are on Snapchat all the time.

00:49:09.640 So it seems pretty insidious,

00:49:12.320 but I want to get your guys' thoughts on that.

00:49:16.620 Why is that so effective?

00:49:18.240 Is it rotting their brains?

00:49:19.540 And I'm going to load it even more. 0.66

00:49:21.700 Oh, here we go.

00:49:22.680 I'm going to load this even more.

00:49:23.800 Let's hear it.

00:49:24.680 I remember pastoring,

00:49:26.500 and I would have probably people in 8 to 12 range,

00:49:29.200 and they would, I'd be counseling, you know, them, their parents, whatever.

00:49:34.740 And people would say things to me like, at the age of like nine,

00:49:37.780 they'd say, Pastor, I'm really struggling.

00:49:40.040 I think I'm bisexual.

00:49:42.460 And I remember thinking, you don't even know what that means.

00:49:45.600 Yeah, what?

00:49:46.760 So as a parent, I'm thinking, what trough are you eating at?

00:49:50.940 And then this happened more and more. 0.93

00:49:53.180 And I pretty quickly realized these were kids from this Gen Z

00:49:57.680 who were living life on social media their entire life like so like you would watch their social

00:50:04.520 media accounts they had at the age of nine and ten and they were like something would happen to

00:50:09.700 a celebrity and they would show up at church and they would ask prayer requests i have a prayer

00:50:12.960 request for caitlin jenner uh-huh and i'd be like oh my what you gotta be like i don't care about

00:50:19.380 these people all this to say do you think this stuff is rotting kids brains out i have six points

00:50:27.060 Seven.

00:50:28.160 I have six points, not seven.

00:50:30.180 I could probably come up with seven.

00:50:31.180 That means there's a couple sub points for each one, Dan.

00:50:33.600 They're quick.

00:50:34.640 Buckle up.

00:50:35.560 Six points.

00:50:37.180 These are about the negative effects of children, of screens on negative effects of children.

00:50:42.260 They break things.

00:50:43.840 I'm just kidding.

00:50:44.540 Kids are awesome.

00:50:46.160 No, but really, I do have six.

00:50:47.860 And the first one is that, that when you put your kids in front of screens, you are putting them pipelined in to people who are actively trying to disciple them to be evil, obviously. 0.99

00:51:00.740 Number two, you are giving them foolish gurus.

00:51:04.160 So I'm talking first about the people who make the technology. 0.98

00:51:07.560 Second, about the people who are amplified.

00:51:09.280 It connects them to those people.

00:51:10.380 Yeah. Social media tends to incentivize certain behaviors and information sources that are foolish. 0.98

00:51:19.780 So like Andrew Tate, he has the dopamine explosion of the cars and the porn and all of that and the confidence and the fitness. 0.96

00:51:27.680 And on the one side, and then you also have the whole tranny thing on the other, foolish gurus is number two. 0.93

00:51:32.700 Number three is the influence of peers is amplified by a hundredfold because all of a sudden your children can be spending time literally 10 feet away from you with wildly foolish peers who are addicted to porn and whose parents give them unfettered access to technology through Snapchat messaging. 0.97

00:51:51.580 They can be doing that in their bedroom unseen.

00:51:54.640 That amplifies the peer influence. 0.97

00:51:56.860 Before that, we had to go out and hang out with our foolish friends and sneak or keep it away. 0.96

00:52:04.400 And then our parents would be like, where did you learn that word? 0.92

00:52:06.400 Well, you know, from Johnny.

00:52:08.360 But now you're right.

00:52:09.140 They can just be in their bedroom.

00:52:10.220 In their bedroom. 1.00

00:52:10.880 Talking to a cadre of foolish people. 1.00

00:52:13.160 That's number three. 1.00

00:52:13.880 Number four is that it makes them fat, sick, and weak because they don't play outside.

00:52:17.820 They can't climb a rope.

00:52:18.740 They can't do 50 push-ups.

00:52:20.260 Can't ride a bike up a mountain.

00:52:21.600 Can't backpack. 0.99

00:52:23.080 You have soft, fat, weak children whose parents have failed them in this respect. 0.72

00:52:28.520 Like my kids can do – Ira the other day, he's seven. 0.98

00:52:31.940 He did almost 200 sit-ups.

00:52:34.300 His back was bleeding by the time he – they can climb the rope in our backyard.

00:52:38.880 It's like a 20-foot rope up a tree.

00:52:40.620 They can climb it all the way to the top and get in their treehouse.

00:52:43.940 They can ride their bike up a mountain.

00:52:45.820 Like they have six-packs.

00:52:47.960 and they're like nine and seven and they're just they're not fat sick and weak and it's

00:52:54.200 in a lot of the kids in our neighborhood are or they're skinny and weak that's number four

00:53:00.680 number five uh is and we've talked about it entertainment crystal meth basically that

00:53:07.640 kids can't deal with anything anymore that takes more than one second to get to the pleasure

00:53:15.020 release because they've been trained by instant entertainment to be dopamine addicted in a

00:53:22.320 feedback loop that's endless. Instagram reels, you scroll them, you swipe to the next one,

00:53:28.560 swipe to the next one, swipe to the next one, swipe to the next one. You could do that for

00:53:31.920 hours, days. Lastly, I would call this external brain syndrome is that it makes memory harder

00:53:38.800 when you have access to the illusion of the totality of human thought in your pocket.

00:53:42.120 so why memorize anything if you can google it that's really interesting this one hit me brian

00:53:48.040 we my oldest just started driving so he's 16 he has a gab phone so no access to the internet he

00:53:54.760 can text basically but the one thing they didn't yet have when we bought it was mapping what was

00:54:00.620 really interesting because i pretty much can't find anything in ogden anywhere everywhere i go

00:54:06.840 i pretty much type in directions well i i said to my oldest i said hey you're gonna have to get

00:54:11.840 x y and z we gotta have to figure out a way and he goes dad i know how to get there i remember it

00:54:17.680 yeah and i'm like wait what because he's been sitting in the back of the car watching us drive

00:54:21.300 everywhere yeah and he doesn't have the luxury of the map so he's been memorizing streets and

00:54:26.020 where everything is he knows the city better than i do ira does that too you know he'll be like dad

00:54:31.460 you were supposed to turn there and i'm like ah oh i was supposed to turn there he knows yeah

00:54:36.520 so that's really interesting yeah external brain set of it does it to adults too but i also noticed

00:54:41.460 this too uh i guess plug for saint brennan's but they do so much reading like memorization

00:54:46.220 latin greek that sort of thing that uh your mind is a muscle has to be trained

00:54:51.060 the argument it seems to be uh is that a lot of these devices and technologies actually

00:54:55.700 actually dumbing us down yeah um making us what would you call it crystal meth entertainment yeah

00:55:00.880 they give us the illusion so this is the same thing neil postman talked about in amusing

00:55:05.240 ourselves to death technology like this tends to be really good at giving you an illusion

00:55:10.660 of knowledge, but if you back up and you lose the technology, how much knowledge do you really have?

00:55:17.360 Like, for example, if you were to interview somebody one-on-one who spent a lot of time

00:55:21.860 on Twitter or on whatever, CNN or Fox News, and you were to ask them without the phone or the

00:55:27.460 computer or anything and interview them about their knowledge of the Russia-Ukraine conflict,

00:55:31.400 its historical context, what's happening, who's involved, you would probably find that most of us

00:55:35.660 know almost nothing about it and we've had the illusion of certainty and knowledge because we

00:55:41.220 can retweet and like things that whether they actually know anything or not is an open question

00:55:45.980 but that people can say this is happening this this is what you should think this is what you

00:55:50.260 and you read it in the moment and you might comprehend it and retweet it and like it but

00:55:54.880 do you retain it are you able to systematize it into a your your knowledge tree can you really

00:56:00.980 understand or have you been spoon fed uh an illusion of knowledge by media companies and

00:56:09.160 technology yeah that's big uh one of the other thoughts that i have this is sort of the alex

00:56:14.120 jones moment of every show literal vampire pot-bellied goblins are hobbling around coming

00:56:20.600 after us we gotta have one we gotta have one and brian get your hat ready i'm i'm ready get the

00:56:26.360 I'm ready to yell at the top of my lungs.

00:56:28.640 Brought to you by Eric Kahn, Brian Sovey, and Dan Burkholder, if you want to be a part of this.

00:56:33.080 Feel free to jump in.

00:56:34.400 No, but seriously, like when you read about the CIA, Hollywood, their influence of intelligence agencies in using Twitter.

00:56:44.660 Okay, read the Twitter files.

00:56:46.240 The FBI was all over that.

00:56:48.360 They're controlling the information.

00:56:49.940 They're controlling which information you have.

00:56:51.580 you can read about different operations mockingbird and other things that are proven like it's out

00:56:58.400 there public information they're proven both recent and old intelligence communities are

00:57:03.240 waging information operations warfare on the american people so for me this really also

00:57:08.560 changes how i think about technology and my kids hey i tell them those things be like listen like

00:57:13.600 these people are preying on you yeah like they are toying with your every emotion they've studied

00:57:18.380 it they know it they know every human motivation possible and they know what the dopamine drips

00:57:24.200 and the crystal meth is yep so they're gonna do everything they can to suck you into that

00:57:28.280 so i guess my question for you guys is does that do you think that's true number one and then does

00:57:34.600 it play a role in i guess shaping how you think about technology in this conversation well the

00:57:40.080 thing is i was waiting for you to actually get to the crazy part yeah that's all i saved it for you

00:57:45.660 Dan for me to go crazy yeah go crazy oh no no I'm not going to say anything crazy no so that

00:57:52.680 definitely has a big impact in the way that I interact with media I have very very young kids

00:57:57.860 and so your perspective is is going to be a little bit different because you have older kids that can

00:58:02.140 understand like what's a military operation or what's you know what's the FBI like my my oldest

00:58:06.440 is six he he doesn't know how to he's like dad I asked if you could look up the lego set

00:58:12.640 You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, hang on, though.

00:58:14.700 But the CIA.

00:58:16.380 But the CIA, they're getting you through the Legos.

00:58:19.520 Through the Legos.

00:58:20.420 It's the Watchers.

00:58:22.000 Oh, boy.

00:58:23.460 You know, it's really interesting.

00:58:25.220 So we have all of the scientific data.

00:58:27.620 Actually, none of this is private.

00:58:29.700 Like, this is all out in the open.

00:58:31.960 Andrew Huberman has a lot of good information on dopamine and the effects of the brain,

00:58:35.280 how it actually causes your brain to be rewired.

00:58:37.800 and it can cause irreversible damage

00:58:40.620 in the way that your brain actually functions.

00:58:42.600 Yes, sir?

00:58:42.940 Great book.

00:58:43.400 By the way, Dopamine Nation

00:58:44.860 also delves into a lot of the research behind this.

00:58:47.260 Oh, interesting, interesting.

00:58:48.320 Okay, it's a continue.

00:58:48.840 And so we know that.

00:58:50.040 So we know that,

00:58:50.900 that it's, even if it was,

00:58:53.620 the entertainment was wholesome and fine,

00:58:55.720 the way that your brain interacts with it

00:58:57.500 is through this constant dopamine drip

00:59:00.160 that actually rewires your brain

00:59:01.980 and is causing some damage

00:59:03.180 and has all sorts of nasty side effects

00:59:05.920 on your day-to-day life.

00:59:07.800 your inability to think retain memory like all this stuff but then you add on top that there are

00:59:13.380 actually nefarious people nefarious organizations uh that are not for you they don't have your best

00:59:20.200 interests in mind they want to enslave you to make you slaves of the system big time and then

00:59:25.680 they're the ones that are weaponizing these tools against you i don't i mean i'm i'm looking for the

00:59:31.300 crazy part here like it's just it should affect the way that you interact with this and it's

00:59:36.360 become more obvious more and more obvious as you talked about with netflix and with disney and with

00:59:41.560 the rise of um you know homosexuality and entertainment and like they're catechizing 0.88

00:59:47.600 you yeah and they're killing your mind even i think in the one of the things one of the you 0.80

00:59:53.320 know things that i would say the red pill movement got right i guess was helping men understand what 0.89

00:59:58.760 the enemy was using porn to do to you right like so it's not just like it's just really filthy 0.71

01:00:03.920 yeah brian brian is uh mouthing something very important all owned by the jews i was just gonna

01:00:10.460 say no but i mean like the elites the elites oh yeah they own it all but this is this is actually

01:00:18.760 a big part of the story though is when you look at okay read the history you know e michael jones

01:00:25.080 on the french revolution but also yeah certain people groups like like the jews and certain jews 0.88

01:00:30.900 They own the porn industries, and they're using those things to destabilize, destroy families, destroy children. 1.00

01:00:37.740 They know that it pollutes your mind.

01:00:39.620 So I think equipping men especially – because men, look, you are the bulwark.

01:00:44.260 You're the last bulwark of Western civilization.

01:00:47.260 You are there to defend your families and your children.

01:00:51.180 Nobody is going to do this work but you.

01:00:52.820 That's right.

01:00:53.380 So if I was going to say anything to guys, it's like you have to be aware of the issues.

01:00:56.500 you have to know the plays being run and then you have to have a strategy to defeat them

01:01:01.240 because really if there's an insurgency you have to have a counterinsurgency

01:01:05.700 and so this is why you know a lot of people have asked on the hard men podcast too like

01:01:10.120 why are you talking about pornography why are you talking about these issues because they're

01:01:14.840 literally destroying men's lives and families as an extension of that uh as well so dan we didn't

01:01:21.280 get we didn't get enough crazy for you for me from me or to me i don't know you know i don't

01:01:27.260 think any of that's crazy no that's all just like that's that's just factual information open

01:01:31.540 source do with it what you will i mean the jews part you know no when we when we get into that

01:01:37.780 what we're saying is that there is literally an elite class of people and there is a disproportionate

01:01:43.300 again like think about you just have to think clearly about these things you have groups of

01:01:47.560 people who hate christ and you have to remember that this is a literally spiritual thing so not

01:01:53.480 just like the elite pornography owning ring in hollywood that happens to be very predominantly

01:01:59.240 jewish that's just true you have to do with that fact whatever you're gonna like you can't argue 0.54

01:02:03.960 with it being factual it just is i'm waving my arms around i just realized i look like alex

01:02:09.320 and you're looking at me like you're trying to convince me like the guy in front of the the

01:02:15.320 it is actually i agree with you just not on the microphone yeah no but but even it is interesting

01:02:20.940 even with alex jones though like obviously unhinged moments yeah clearly right but like

01:02:26.300 when he was like he was like when he was ranting at his finest uh-huh he was like guys i'm telling 0.99

01:02:32.920 you the trans movement is demonic they are they're demons and they're coming for your kids 0.97

01:02:38.800 And you look back on that now and you're like, okay, it seemed crazy in the moment, but was he right about that? 1.00

01:02:43.260 And the key point in connection with this episode and topic, to bring it back, is that we're talking about fatherhood and a father's responsibility to guard and keep and cultivate, right?

01:02:54.820 So you have to recognize that there are other fathers.

01:02:58.180 His name is Satan, and he has sons who want to steal and destroy your children, right? 0.96

01:03:04.240 So you have to know who these people are and what they're up to because they are attempting to make your children antichrist, fat, weak, easily manipulated, to get them completely addicted to the fake dominion, fake sex, fake world, fake food, fake everything. 0.74

01:03:24.380 Because those people are plugged into the matrix and they're easy to manipulate and get the power that they want from the masses.

01:03:31.680 That's what's happening.

01:03:32.520 See, as a father, you have to recognize that those groups exist.

01:03:35.960 We're not talking about neutral world where it's like, well, you guys are going really hard on these, you know, entertainment people.

01:03:42.120 They're just trying to make good movies and they just want to, you know, let you have a good time at the movies.

01:03:46.220 They're not trying to make good movies.

01:03:47.500 No, they're not.

01:03:47.880 The movies are horrible.

01:03:48.920 They're intentionally making movies they know are probably bad and going to lose money.

01:03:53.340 And why are they doing that?

01:03:54.400 Except for what?

01:03:54.960 Except for Top Ten Maverick.

01:03:56.580 I've watched that movie like 20 times.

01:03:58.420 Yeah.

01:03:58.880 I thought it was average. 1.00

01:04:00.420 Except for the premarital sex. 0.97

01:04:02.520 yeah even see this is a point like even in the best movie we can think of recently it's like

01:04:08.760 yeah oh look at that guy he's climbing in a window and in i when i watched it with my kids it was

01:04:14.280 vid angel so i filtered everything so he just teleports like all of a sudden he's like doing

01:04:19.300 something and then they just teleport somewhere else and my kids never question it yeah it's the

01:04:24.220 best seems like a big plot hole yeah i think i think brian that's really good so there's kind of

01:04:28.880 and we can wrap things up here.

01:04:30.420 There's kind of two sides to this.

01:04:31.780 A lot of what we've been talking about

01:04:32.980 is the work of guarding as a father.

01:04:36.020 So in a way, that's a defensive posture.

01:04:38.700 But Dan, one of the things with everything else,

01:04:41.160 like think of season one with the King's Hall.

01:04:43.680 In my view, what we also have to do

01:04:45.320 is not just tell our kids like,

01:04:46.640 don't do this, avoid this.

01:04:48.460 But there's a reason that you don't want

01:04:50.180 to have your mission robbed

01:04:51.240 is because you have to have a positive vision

01:04:53.700 and mission laid out before you.

01:04:55.440 So I wonder if you would just connect the dots

01:04:58.260 for that on me, how this ties then into that positive mission. Like, I don't want my kid's

01:05:03.240 strength to be robbed because I actually want it to be for something different. Yeah, that's right.

01:05:08.020 No, that's a really good question. And I think it's the question, as you look back onto the

01:05:11.960 principles, how do you actually apply a lot of the stuff that we've said, which is kind of like

01:05:17.820 painting this picture of doom and gloom in a lot of ways, is that you actually, if you interact

01:05:25.000 with this category incorrectly, that it will completely undermine your mission, it will

01:05:30.360 completely undermine your principles. If one of your goals is to pass on the inheritance of faith

01:05:35.120 to your children, and they're actively being catechized to hate God, to hate Christ, to think

01:05:42.100 a certain way about the world in a naturalistic way or an atheistic way, or in a, you know,

01:05:47.520 whatever the worldview is that's being propagated in their little minds as they're interacting with

01:05:54.600 this entertainment, that will absolutely undermine your mission. And then beyond that,

01:06:00.080 whatever you have in mind, how you want your children to live, what they like, the wealth

01:06:06.260 that you would pass on when you die, it's all irrelevant if you don't get that right.

01:06:13.280 If you cannot adequately catechize your kids, pass on the inheritance of faith, because

01:06:18.300 everything you've done has been actively undermined by this massive entertainment

01:06:24.540 industry and by the worldview that it's propagating, then you've lost. You've lost

01:06:30.160 your mission, you have lost your kids, and you will live a life full of regret.

01:06:37.520 That's why this is such an important question that you have to get right. How do my kids interact

01:06:43.560 with entertainment specifically digital entertainment yeah because there's there's

01:06:48.500 other things too like you have to be careful what your kids read but we're we're not there yet

01:06:53.400 like for for a lot of people we're not there yet because you don't read and so your kids won't read

01:06:59.500 they they know how to interact with entertainment because you look at your smartphone

01:07:04.200 all the time you know that well that's actually i think a really positive way to frame that part

01:07:10.540 of it too something neil postman talks about how tv pushed us away from verbal and reading so

01:07:18.380 literature and like things like he even mentions like preaching how how tvs change the message of

01:07:23.560 like preachers and stuff like that so one of the things that seems like we ought to be aiming at

01:07:27.620 then we're doing this with saint brennan's is we want our sons to be literate right like that's

01:07:33.760 very different than somebody who's obsessed with a smartphone read well think well speak well

01:07:38.560 out of a deep well of virtue.

01:07:41.700 Right.

01:07:42.060 That's what we're aiming for.

01:07:44.160 So that would be one of the positives, right?

01:07:46.040 Read your herodotus.

01:07:47.220 Well, and you can even see from popular YouTubers

01:07:49.720 and things like that,

01:07:50.640 they use incorrect grammar and speech patterns

01:07:54.120 because of the quick cuts

01:07:55.520 in order to keep the dopamine going

01:07:57.620 and keep the video interesting.

01:08:00.120 I mean, they're training your mind.

01:08:02.120 But yeah, it will all undermine your mission

01:08:05.740 If you're not cautious around this, if you don't put up barricades and barriers and build up your family defenses in the right places in how you interact with these things, it will absolutely undermine your mission.

01:08:20.440 Yeah, I think we should get practical to end it out. Like how? What are we doing? What should people think about doing? What about teenagers as they're getting older? Phones? They are going to live in a technological age. How do we make wise sons who can use these tools rather than be used by them? I think that would probably be a good place to land this show.

01:08:42.400 Well, and before we get there, one of the questions I'm going to ask in the after hours is how do you hope that your grandchildren interact with technology and the rise of artificial intelligence and with increased digital media?

01:08:57.380 So, yeah, Eric, I'd be curious to hear what you have to say because you have older kids.

01:09:01.680 Yeah, so I have a, you know, 16, two years behind that, so two teenagers, and then one who is still, I mean, in this 8 to 12, where they're highly impacted.

01:09:12.560 So a couple things I would say.

01:09:14.320 Number one on, like, the technology and pornography and all that stuff, everything we talked about, you're going to have to have conversations with your kids a lot younger.

01:09:23.400 For us, unfortunately, it was, like, an elder's kid.

01:09:27.180 My kids were, like, eight, and this kid's, like, you know, has his own smartphone.

01:09:30.800 we don't know about my kids say hey we saw some photos of naked women what should we and so that

01:09:36.860 really that was like eight yeah okay so for me it was like okay i thought thinking back to my

01:09:43.840 childhood you know we can wait till they're 15 or 16 to really dig into those issues no you can't

01:09:49.580 you're gonna have to make them aware of the dangers much much earlier um so that's something

01:09:54.500 that we've done is we've just been very i've been very open with the boys look here's the challenges

01:09:58.560 Here's what you're going to face, and here's how you defeat them.

01:10:02.380 Some of the practical things that we've done, okay, so my 16-year-old is driving.

01:10:07.160 We decided he does need a cell phone.

01:10:09.400 He's interacting with people he's doing business with and for and stuff like that.

01:10:13.700 He needs that.

01:10:14.460 But we ended up deciding to use the Gab phone, as I mentioned, because you can text.

01:10:20.300 They're adding mapping now, I believe.

01:10:22.880 So you can text and map.

01:10:24.640 But I've told them, look, we're not giving you unfettered access.

01:10:28.560 to the internet. That's a horrible decision. Can you take and receive photographs on the Gab phone?

01:10:33.500 It depends which package you get. Okay. On the one that we did, yes. So, you know, and I've told

01:10:40.320 them too, like, we have regular, you know, with my, especially with my older boys, but we have

01:10:45.900 regular check-in, like, you know, have you been tempted to look at anything? Have you looked at

01:10:50.420 anything of any of our devices, things like that? Is anything, you know, eating you up inside? So

01:10:57.340 So kind of going through those things, Michael Foster was really helpful on this. 1.00

01:11:00.660 Don't treat them like idiots. 1.00

01:11:02.000 Right. 1.00

01:11:02.500 Look, this is the world that we face.

01:11:05.000 Treat them like brothers in Christ that you're trying to help and disciple and all of those things.

01:11:10.280 On the other technological fronts, we just have very limited access and use.

01:11:15.400 There are fortunately a lot of good digital – they call this digital parenting.

01:11:19.620 But you can find a lot of resources and stuff to use even with the iPad where we have one iPad that's family use.

01:11:27.340 You can restrict specifically this window and this thing.

01:11:31.120 You're allowed to watch this only.

01:11:33.260 Sit there.

01:11:33.940 You can watch it.

01:11:34.820 It's usually 30 minutes a day or something like that.

01:11:37.120 If the kids want to watch goofy videos.

01:11:38.720 It's usually during the school year.

01:11:40.260 It's usually Brian and my son.

01:11:42.060 They finish their homework and they get to watch like a Brian Regan clip or something.

01:11:45.500 So we know what it is ahead of time, all that sort of thing.

01:11:48.360 That's sort of been enjoyable.

01:11:49.940 As they get older too and we're watching movies, I could go back to something.

01:11:54.820 it was recently on canon plus that nate wilson had said my main goal isn't to guard my kids from

01:12:00.680 everything though there are certain things i will definitely guard them from and he was talking

01:12:05.560 about the wolf of wall street like he said all these people were like oh i know it's rough but

01:12:10.280 you need to watch it he's like i made it like 30 seconds and you know the first scene i i was the

01:12:15.920 same the first scene is so graphically inappropriate that it's like nate said he's like i don't know

01:12:21.980 how a christian can watch this right i just don't know how it's possible the the other side of it is

01:12:27.300 then when we decide okay this is something that they can watch but as dan mentioned with top gun

01:12:32.040 you have to be helping them process what are you watching what's good what's bad so we have a lot

01:12:38.300 of those conversations you mentioned the the premarital fornication yeah i didn't even say 0.97

01:12:44.700 anything and my my boys were like fornicators fornicators at st brennan's we've actually had 0.98

01:12:51.480 to coach some of the older boys and when i say older boys i mean the conge boy to stop calling 0.98

01:12:58.260 everything gay in every sentence you know we're like you actually have to have the time and place

01:13:04.560 you have to dial it back yeah um so those are a few things that uh come to the top of mind again 0.82

01:13:09.540 i think fathers when you're dealing with your kids kids be direct don't be the awkward like

01:13:15.720 well, you know, there's the birds and the bees.

01:13:20.860 Don't do that.

01:13:22.580 Again, there's some good podcasts on,

01:13:25.020 formerly It's Good to Be a Man podcast.

01:13:27.980 They're not making the podcast anymore,

01:13:29.220 but I believe these still exist.

01:13:31.020 Michael has a great one on pornography

01:13:32.480 and how to talk to young men about it.

01:13:34.420 That's an excellent resource, good theology.

01:13:37.000 Maybe start with something like that.

01:13:38.280 I think Toby Sumter also has one on porn.

01:13:40.540 I know we're talking about digital too,

01:13:41.900 but these kind of overlap.

01:13:42.800 Yeah.

01:13:43.900 So, Dan, thoughts?

01:13:44.980 practical yeah i mean the way i've got young kids right so the temptation is always there to

01:13:51.060 plug them in you know anesthetize them as as you said like they're being horrible and my wife

01:13:56.780 called this morning it was it was kind of sad for her it's funny for me uh but oh boy oh boy

01:14:04.280 so my my my third boy he's he's not obeying not funny uh with like anything and then my eldest

01:14:11.700 boy went into the minivan and he found a box of tissues and he knows better he's six he unloads

01:14:18.060 the box in the van so there is an entire box of tissues in the minivan yeah and then my number

01:14:24.400 two child uh dug through every crevice in the van glove box and everything and tossed it so it

01:14:31.600 anyway uh the temptation is to say like this is too much for me plug them into the tv yeah right

01:14:39.260 That is the temptation.

01:14:40.480 And so that's something that we've had to fight against actively and to put boundaries up for them.

01:14:46.980 Because the thing is, like, once you start doing that, it's easy button temporarily.

01:14:53.520 But I'm sure you guys have even noticed, like, you're like, OK, we'll do movie night.

01:14:57.720 You know, we'll sit down and watch a movie.

01:14:59.020 This is the movie we're going to watch.

01:15:00.100 You're you're ready for it.

01:15:01.140 And then after the movie, the fussing begins.

01:15:04.720 Well, it's like a trade off.

01:15:06.440 That's one of the things that we've noticed is, especially when they were younger, anytime you would have screen time or video game time, even if it was like limited, like 30 minutes a day, the amount of fussing, whining and fighting post is like it's like morphed your kids into somebody else.

01:15:21.680 Right. So the way that we view using screens for our young boys is that this is not producing the fruit in their lives that we want. And so the uses has become very, very limited as a fact of like the other day we watched Homeward Bound together as a family.

01:15:41.160 I remember that one.

01:15:41.740 Man, it's a great one for kids.

01:15:43.880 Yeah.

01:15:44.020 Dude, at the end, I'm like crying. Like, what is wrong with me?

01:15:47.080 I forgot about that movie. I need to watch that.

01:15:48.520 Shadow!

01:15:48.800 Oh, anyway.

01:15:50.220 Back when movies were wholesome.

01:15:52.160 Yeah, back, yeah. 0.99

01:15:52.900 Sassy the cat. 1.00

01:15:53.840 Those cats, those dogs.

01:15:55.740 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:56.800 So, you know, so I'll be very intentional about what we watch.

01:16:00.480 The thing that I've been convicted of recently is my smartphone use because the kids get obsessed with seeing your screen.

01:16:10.340 Well, and they're also watching you do that all the time.

01:16:13.180 Yes, yeah.

01:16:14.160 So that's one thing that I've limited.

01:16:16.500 So I put a limiter on my phone so that I can't interact with any social media apps, video apps, anything like that for three hours at night.

01:16:26.200 And so then I'm not getting messages.

01:16:28.860 I'm not.

01:16:29.540 And it's funny the number of times that I'll just open my phone and immediately press something that is blocked.

01:16:35.880 And I don't think about it.

01:16:37.580 Yeah.

01:16:37.900 So it's been a really good barrier for me.

01:16:39.820 Yeah.

01:16:40.080 And I've been even thinking about upping that to a bigger extreme because I want my kids to love to read.

01:16:48.060 Right.

01:16:48.460 And they see dad on their phone and not reading.

01:16:51.180 Yeah.

01:16:51.340 And so that's one of the things that I've been working through is trying to thread the needle on phone use for myself personally because I think we got the TV side down.

01:17:01.580 Yeah.

01:17:01.660 So I don't know about you, Brian.

01:17:02.880 No, I was literally – I wrote in my notes from this that that was one of the things that I was convicted of preparing for this episode because we've – I mean, there have been things I've tried, like I've got to do this.

01:17:13.700 But I realized when we were making this episode, I need to do almost exactly what you just described, like turn my phone off, put it in a basket until the kids are – until bedtime from that critical time because it is.

01:17:27.800 It's so tempting.

01:17:28.940 You get the notification.

01:17:30.340 You can justify it in a hundred ways.

01:17:32.020 is people need to get in touch with me for pastoral emergencies.

01:17:34.800 I'm like, most of the time, they actually don't.

01:17:36.760 And if it's a true emergency, they'll call my wife, too,

01:17:38.880 like if they can't get a hold of me,

01:17:40.400 because I think she has a better handle on that than I do.

01:17:44.380 So that was definitely a conclusion that I came to.

01:17:46.900 And since she listens to the King's Hall, I now have to do it,

01:17:50.120 because whenever we publish this episode, she's going to text me.

01:17:54.080 I see you're on your phone again, Brian.

01:17:55.880 She's totally, and the great thing is, my wife is 100% does not nag me.

01:18:02.020 She is so respectful.

01:18:04.600 She's never like, hey, I see a little bit about your – she just doesn't do that.

01:18:09.980 And so I'm grateful for that.

01:18:12.100 But it also means like when your wife respects you, it means you have to double down on self-rule because you don't want to have to have that external – your wife nagging you to have to be a virtuous man.

01:18:24.640 Like that's effeminate.

01:18:25.640 so in our house technological limitations are pretty similar like again we try to make

01:18:34.640 screens a family event not a solo event and something that's like pretty obviously demonstrating

01:18:43.620 virtue like the fishing show is a good example it's a guy who is going to the most extreme

01:18:51.140 lengths of suffering sometimes for weeks in the amazon to just to to fit to catch one fish it's

01:18:59.080 the perfect example of a man like of like masculine virtue guy's not a christian or anything but it's

01:19:05.360 clean he's complete it's so fascinating and i want my kids to be like okay when you look at who's the

01:19:11.680 hero of the show it's jeremy way this extreme angler who's like in good shape he's an older guy

01:19:16.320 who's like going for it he's it's he speaks every language on the amazon river apparently like

01:19:22.720 lingala and all this so it's that kind of thing for us that that we tend to prioritize when we're

01:19:28.720 watching things another thing we do a lot i've become increasingly sensitive to cussing and

01:19:35.480 crass language passionate kissing of anybody on a screen uh kissing between anybody who's not

01:19:43.220 married. So if we're going to watch something, I almost never watch anything without filtering it

01:19:47.540 now. We use VidAngel and I filter aggressively. If someone's going to take the Lord's name in

01:19:54.020 vain, I filter it out. If someone's going to cuss, I filter it out. If there's a passionate

01:19:58.060 kissing, I filter it out. If there's nudity, I filter it out. And if I look at a movie after

01:20:01.440 doing that and you can't watch it, then I say, this is not good. Then we're not going to watch

01:20:07.160 it at all. And it's been disappointing to the kids sometimes when they're like, we want to

01:20:10.900 watch this we know this person watched this blah blah blah i'm like i'm like no it's because it's

01:20:15.400 it's not going to help you and there is so much good stuff out there genuinely especially in that

01:20:22.240 category of like adventure outdoors um like really good historical movies things that can still

01:20:31.380 portray darkness and evil and violence but do it in a way that that isn't confusing what is black

01:20:39.640 and what is white, right? My kids are young. I do believe that as they get older, some of these 0.56

01:20:45.760 things are going to fundamentally as that self-rule, but to the point where I don't want

01:20:51.000 them to want to watch people taking the Lord's name and cussing a lot, right? What I want to

01:20:57.220 see positively formed in my children, what I try to do myself, is that I want my children

01:21:02.320 to be able to use technology as a servant of glory and not be enslaved by it.

01:21:10.220 So I want my children to be adept at using digital technology.

01:21:15.520 I want my children to be adept at using even something like social media.

01:21:20.360 Some of these AI tools possibly could become very useful in the hands of a wise, virtuous man.

01:21:27.360 100% forming businesses, things like that.

01:21:30.220 But I want to see that formed in them first.

01:21:32.320 and then help them find the skill in using those things

01:21:37.180 and not just assume that they need certain things

01:21:40.100 that our culture has decided they need.

01:21:42.900 They don't need to watch a certain movie.

01:21:45.560 They just don't need to.

01:21:46.680 It's not going to help them.

01:21:48.080 They don't need to see the upside-down Spider-Man kiss.

01:21:51.180 I filtered it out.

01:21:52.960 Well, I was just laughing because I remember you talking about

01:21:55.060 watching that with your kids through Kid Angel.

01:21:57.380 Yeah.

01:21:57.780 You're like, the plot made no sense.

01:21:59.160 The plot at certain points, the love story, 0.78

01:22:01.520 Because the way Hollywood tells love stories is essentially just through erotic love, sex.

01:22:05.800 So it actually also shows, like, glorious movies, like, or glorious love stories, especially for the past Pride and Prejudice.

01:22:14.360 Like the sound of music?

01:22:15.580 Yeah.

01:22:15.900 The love stories happen through intelligent dialogue and difficult situations and the discovery of the true character of a person.

01:22:23.920 Where you realize this man was actually a worthless man.

01:22:26.900 and this man that seemed at first to be surly or whatever he had some repenting to do he's proud

01:22:32.580 whatever but he had the real christ-like character so there are still good stories still christians

01:22:39.660 need to be making amazing films amazing music amazing works of fiction christians need to be 0.97

01:22:44.980 dominating this space because the culture is making absolute crap they're making absolute 0.99

01:22:50.440 worthless garbage so if christians get in the filmmaking world and they start making 1.00

01:22:54.320 really good love stories again 1.00

01:22:56.280 sign me up

01:22:57.900 I'll help pay for it

01:23:00.120 whatever it is but right now

01:23:02.140 it's just like it is such worthless 1.00

01:23:04.120 crap 1.00

01:23:04.920 99.9% of the time 0.99

01:23:07.620 it's because of who makes it

01:23:09.560 here I stand gentlemen wonderful show

01:23:12.400 we made Brian laugh

01:23:13.980 he's not wrong

01:23:14.700 he's not wrong wonderful show

01:23:18.420 Festina whatever

01:23:20.240 Festina Lente

01:23:21.520 Festina Lente

01:23:22.780 It is Latin. 0.94

01:23:26.760 It is Latin, so I'll give that a pass.

01:23:29.860 There is such a thing as the Italian pronunciation of Latin.

01:23:34.100 Did you guys see that go out the window?

01:23:36.260 That was our credibility.

01:23:37.520 Oh, I was literally like, what happened?

01:23:40.560 You got me.

01:23:41.620 Spicy meatballs.

01:23:42.220 Well, guys, thanks for listening to this episode.

01:23:45.040 No, you know what, guys?

01:23:46.220 I want to thank you for listening to this episode.

01:23:48.640 And until next time, Festinolente, make haste slowly.

01:23:53.520 That's right.

01:24:18.640 over to patreon.com slash the kings hall if you'd like to support the show and get some extra content

The King's Hall - June 30, 2023

Keeping Our Kids Out of the Digital Matrix

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