The King's Hall - Responding to Samuel Sey

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00:00:56.600 question 144 of the Westminster larger catechism deals with the duties of the ninth commandment

00:01:07.460 and one of the duties that it outlines is love and care of our own good name as well as defending

00:01:13.160 it where need requires now we don't love to make response videos on the king's hall you know going

00:01:18.940 back and forth endlessly in blog post after blog post or podcast after podcast does really seem

00:01:25.200 kind of like a waste of time to us. But every once in a while, we are convinced that that positive

00:01:29.880 duty in the ninth commandment to defend your own good name does require you to give a response.

00:01:35.680 Now, this episode deals with a December 8th article from Samuel Say, where he made a number

00:01:40.000 of allegations. And you'll see in the episode that we had some issues with it. I'm recording

00:01:44.640 this cut in here because we recorded that episode some time ago. And since then, we were able to

00:01:49.420 talk one-on-one with Mr. Say and bring some of our concerns to him and the issues that we had

00:01:55.280 with the article. He did agree to address one of our concerns, which was the title and framing of

00:02:00.740 the article, as you'll see in the episode, and change it at this point and tweet a retraction of

00:02:07.440 that point. However, he did stand by everything in the article, even in his retraction. And so

00:02:13.680 we did tell him, we said, look, if you're not willing to change your mind on these things and

00:02:18.600 publicly repair the damage that you've done to mine and Eric's good name through your article,

00:02:23.100 then we are going to publicly respond to it because of this positive duty according to the

00:02:28.880 ninth commandment. And so since he's not really willing to address any of those claims or the

00:02:34.680 issues that are in the substance of the article, which are really the main issues that we had,

00:02:39.280 we decided to run the response anyway and continue to urge Mr. Say to reconsider what we would see

00:02:47.400 his obstinance in these lies, as well as sub-Christian tactics, rhetorically speaking.

00:02:53.560 So here's the episode. We do hope it's helpful and that we can get back to our normal content

00:02:57.560 with the next episode of the King's Hall. God bless you guys.

00:03:01.420 Starting in 1917, the Bolshevik Revolution swept through Russia. It began with leaders

00:03:07.320 like Leon Trotsky and Vladimir Lenin, but would culminate with the savage brutality of Stalin

00:03:12.840 and the Gulag. Later, the Gulag would be made famous by Alexander Solzhenitsyn, whose multi-volume

00:03:19.340 work The Gulag Archipelago has sold more than 30 million copies worldwide. What Solzhenitsyn points

00:03:25.560 out is that for the Soviet penal system to function, a system of denouncements was relied

00:03:31.420 upon. This refers, of course, to a pervasive culture of informing on others to the secret

00:03:37.060 police. This twisted system was fueled by fear, propaganda, and the legal system, it doesn't seem

00:03:43.560 right to even call it that, that punished the smallest infractions like privately held criticism

00:03:48.620 of the state. In fact, as Solzhenitsyn points out in his book, Russians became so blinded by this

00:03:54.660 system that they would denounce innocent people for any reason simply to feel like they were

00:03:59.000 holding the totalitarian line. Why did the system work? Well, fundamentally, the Soviet practice of

00:04:05.240 denouncement relied on forced participation, wherein failure to denounce also became a crime

00:04:11.240 in itself. The police would show up, denounce someone as anti-Soviet, and then demand that

00:04:17.120 people's neighbors denounce him as well, otherwise they too would be considered guilty. People were

00:04:22.540 then hauled off, usually in the middle of the night to avoid public scrutiny, and sent to Soviet

00:04:27.440 camps known as gulags. In those camps, millions died. Privacy under this system was all but

00:04:34.140 destroyed. The police sifted through personal mail and encouraged Russians to turn in their

00:04:39.380 neighbors for saying anything that could be considered critical of Stalin or the communist

00:04:43.860 government or anything at all. In turn, this system of denunciation led to a state of panic

00:04:49.560 in the populace. The people were filled with hysteria and fear, and in turn, everyone became

00:04:55.560 a potential informant or victim. Denunciation had become a political tool for ultimate control.

00:05:02.900 Interestingly enough, what made a person anti-Soviet was never carefully defined.

00:05:08.260 This was on purpose, since it meant that as many people as possible could become victims of the libel and thus denounced.

00:05:15.540 In America today, this leftist tactic has taken root in what we call cancel culture.

00:05:21.460 Make-believe terms are invented, like racist, misogynist, anti-Semite.

00:05:26.060 Hardly anyone knows what they actually mean, and no one really bothers to define the terms in any meaningful way.

00:05:31.700 But almost everyone knows how to apply them for maximal force.

00:05:36.140 In the 1980s, for example, William F. Buckley and his neocon friends,

00:05:40.360 backed by Jewish donors, by the way,

00:05:42.880 would smear men like Joe Sobrin and Pat Buchanan as anti-Semites.

00:05:47.600 As Sobrin pointed out, my old boss Bill Buckley wrote an entire book called

00:05:51.900 In Search of Anti-Semitism without bothering to define anti-Semitism.

00:05:56.660 After reading what Buckley had written, Sobrin said,

00:05:59.140 At the time, I thought his inclusion of me was an oversight. I was wrong.

00:06:04.000 The word antisemitism would lose its utility for Buckley if it were defined.

00:06:08.820 As I observed in the book, an antisemite used to mean a man who hated Jews.

00:06:13.240 Now it means a man who was hated by Jews.

00:06:16.360 Now, ironically, the use of ill-defined labels like antisemitism to smear a man

00:06:20.800 is actually straight out of the Soviet playbook.

00:06:23.840 Sobrin explains further,

00:06:24.940 The very word anti-Semite is reminiscent of the term anti-Soviet.

00:06:29.740 It serves a similar function of facilitating imputations of ill-defined guilt.

00:06:34.640 The strength of Western law has always been its insistence on definition.

00:06:39.160 Clear definitions put a burden of proof on the accuser, and properly so.

00:06:44.140 If you falsely accuse a man of murder or burglary, not only is he apt to be acquitted,

00:06:49.620 you may pay a heavy penalty yourself.

00:06:52.280 As a result, few of us are afraid of being charged with murders and burglaries we didn't commit.

00:06:57.960 Likewise, Sobrin pointed out that a term like anti-Semitism is useful for character assassination

00:07:03.300 because the accuser never actually has to define or prove anything.

00:07:06.820 He writes,

00:07:08.200 If you want to distinguish between the innocent and the guilty, you define crimes precisely.

00:07:13.480 If, however, you merely want to maximize the number of convictions,

00:07:17.360 increase the power of the accusers, and create an atmosphere of dread,

00:07:20.820 you define crimes as loosely as possible. We now have an incentive system that might have been

00:07:26.880 designed to promote loose charges of anti-Semitism. Now, perhaps two of the most powerful terms for

00:07:33.280 our American system of denunciation are anti-Semite and racist. Since these terms are drawn

00:07:38.620 up by those who make up the ruling class media and many within the government, many who seek to

00:07:43.460 rise in the social hierarchy will employ these terms against others in an effort to score points

00:07:48.920 with ruling elites. One's street cred and access to larger platforms will depend on whether or not

00:07:55.100 they have denounced the right people strenuously enough. As a case in point, consider a recent

00:08:00.240 article by Samuel Say, a man who calls himself a Ghanaian Canadian who immigrated to the United

00:08:05.720 States. The article, Should Black Christians Repent from Being Black, takes aim at yours truly and

00:08:12.400 air con. In the article, Sam called us white nationalists who are guilty of the sin of

00:08:17.900 partiality. He's referring, of course, to our episode, The Girl on the Train, where we said

00:08:22.760 that black people who have walked in the sins particular and common to black culture must

00:08:27.480 repent of those sins in order to join our church. As we'll discuss in today's episode, he attempts

00:08:32.940 a shoddy argument, but manages to throw out a bunch of scary words in an effort to convince

00:08:37.920 everyone in earshot to join in his performative denunciation. Now, we'll address his argument in

00:08:43.300 a minute. But for now, it's important to see that this is just another form of that old

00:08:47.540 denunciation game. It's a fundamentally left-framed way of trying to ostracize people who hold

00:08:53.140 culturally divergent views on race, culture, or anthropology. Unfortunately, this tactic works

00:08:59.020 more often than not, as demonstrated by the widespread cheers heard in response to Say's

00:09:03.940 article. So in this episode of the King's Hall, we'll demonstrate three of the most serious ways

00:09:09.480 in which Mr. Say's analysis was shallow, imprecise, and ultimately an exercise in

00:09:16.000 missing the target. At least, missing the target of truth-telling. That doesn't mean he didn't

00:09:20.760 accomplish what he set out to accomplish. The King's Hall podcast exists to make self-ruled

00:09:25.680 men who rule well and win the world. Brian, I noticed you've been drinking a lot of coffee

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00:12:00.460 Well, welcome to this episode of the King's Hall podcast. I'm one of your hosts,

00:12:03.860 Eric Kahn, joined today by Brian. I'm on a cut, so they. Thank you for recognizing my

00:12:09.820 preferred pronouns. Look, I figured we should just get that out in the open. Let's get it out

00:12:14.880 in the open right now. You've gone through a total character transformation. I've had to look

00:12:23.080 at pictures of pizzas on your X feed. So true. I can make a pizza that is 725 calories, 62 grams

00:12:30.480 of protein, 12 inch pizza, can eat the whole thing. I eat one every night.

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00:13:09.820 yes when i think of you on a cut i just hear you in my ear and i'm going home okay in the evening

00:13:20.460 and i'm thinking i should work out now there's there's a hockey game on maybe i'll just watch

00:13:25.560 that and i hear in my ear go work out fatty and it's a picture of your face as pit vipers

00:13:31.260 go work out or or else or else and if you don't work out when you're on a cut you'll lose muscle

00:13:37.580 mess. Yeah, that's true. Also you put a treadmill in your office. Just a small one. Just so I can

00:13:45.780 sermon prep and walk at the same time. Yeah. This is the new me. Okay. This is the new me. Yeah.

00:13:51.840 It's not 26% body fat, Brian. It's like eventually some lower number body fat, Brian. I think that

00:13:58.360 like where I've been with steps is kind of where you want to be. Okay. I checked them yesterday

00:14:02.720 when i got home from work yeah and it was like under a thousand no that's about ideal ideal yeah

00:14:08.980 for weight retention like let's say a famine was coming ideal for early death

00:14:14.840 for like dying quickly yeah yeah no that's uh thank you for bringing it up i appreciate it

00:14:22.400 we've gotten it out of the way now we can move on everyone i know wanted an update there it is i'm

00:14:27.540 at 22 body fat as of today keep calling me fat until i get to 15 and i appreciate it thank you

00:14:32.680 guys you know i signed the e-hud declaration and i don't want that to come back to bite me

00:14:38.080 you know what i mean someone could just go you signed it like i know i did i know we shouldn't

00:14:44.380 have that was actually something that uh kevin de young was upset with was that uh steven wolf

00:14:51.140 had pointed out like maybe pastors shouldn't be like 300 pounds overweight yeah i mean like

00:14:56.680 what could what i when i think of the worst thing that could happen it would be someone telling

00:15:01.380 pastors to stop being morbidly obese. One of the worst and most irresponsible things you could say,

00:15:07.080 because we all know that their spiritual gravity comes from the literal gravity of their bodies

00:15:11.480 weighing 300 pounds or more. I've actually heard this argument, believe it or not. Have you really?

00:15:16.440 Yeah, it was a fat pastor and he said the ideal, like, you know, you're with pastors of gravity

00:15:22.940 because when they go to hug their bellies touch and they can't actually hug each other. But that

00:15:29.840 was actually like a positive argument i'm saying he was making it positively was his body composed

00:15:35.680 primarily of seed oils uh i don't know are there seed oils and ice cream unfortunately yes yes

00:15:42.920 then yes okay uh speaking of things that will kill you and by kill you i mean soul death at least

00:15:49.820 we're gonna jump into an article by samuel say great transition yeah um it's really interesting

00:15:57.160 so an article came out december 8th 2025 we had of course published our episode the girl on the

00:16:04.340 train which to this day i still laugh at because i know you did most of the talking and people were

00:16:11.760 like eric's a racist yeah people were like eric you're a racist brian you've never done anything

00:16:16.440 wrong and i love you actually no that's not true and they were like and you're a racist and i hate

00:16:21.240 you people were actually mad at you too it is funny though that how how many times people were

00:16:25.700 like man eric was so rude for that so i said all of the things yes yeah anyway um my bad so we jump

00:16:33.880 into this article it really was your bad yeah it's titled should black christians repent from

00:16:40.880 being black so first of all my first critique here is the use of from from proposition it's

00:16:48.040 the wrong proposition it should be should black christians repent for being black not from being

00:16:55.400 lack grammatically that's actually my biggest problem with the article is the grammar right

00:16:59.360 there yeah um so sammy just watch your prepositions that's all i'm gonna say so we kind of put this in

00:17:04.560 context with the cold open but i don't think a lot of christians probably think through this

00:17:10.560 about where all this framing is coming from like using terms like in the in the article he'll he

00:17:16.340 referred to us as uh white nationalists white nationalists he called us we will see we'll get

00:17:22.520 into it like i think racially partial stuff like that yeah and there's not a lot of definition of

00:17:28.980 those terms we'll get into that but the larger context why do you think it's important to know

00:17:33.340 like this is a soviet thing this is a commie thing yeah this is not how christians in good

00:17:39.220 faith ought to engage with one another yeah but it's also happened before and it is funny because

00:17:44.600 the more i've read solzhenitsyn reading joe soberan whom whom you quoted about that era in

00:17:51.220 soviet russia you're reading it and you're thinking this is exactly how we do discourse today

00:17:56.220 the number of times in the last week alone that i've been asked to denounce someone whom i don't

00:18:00.780 even know who they are it's constant i've never even promoted a person they're like will you

00:18:05.640 right here denounce denounce shut up and usually my response i what i want to say is like you know

00:18:11.920 who i denounce is you i denounce for asking me to denounce yeah um but but just why is it important

00:18:18.800 for Christians in general to think through

00:18:20.920 kind of these broader strategies

00:18:22.780 that maybe we're unaware of.

00:18:24.380 Yeah, sometimes people make the mistake of thinking

00:18:26.560 that we're all just doing discourse in a neutral space.

00:18:29.480 Yeah.

00:18:29.820 And that everyone's real concern

00:18:31.760 is just to get to the truth.

00:18:33.640 Like that's not really what's happening.

00:18:36.600 Underlying all discourse in the public sphere

00:18:39.160 and especially discourse surrounding important

00:18:41.520 and controversial subjects where Satan is attacking

00:18:43.860 and wants to destroy and steal and kill and lie.

00:18:46.560 um you have to understand that you're operating in an environment of pugilism of war and when it

00:18:54.480 comes to war you have allies you have co-belligerence you have enemies you have neutral

00:18:59.540 parties like and understanding where somebody fits in those categories often explains before

00:19:05.620 they say a word what they're going to say so when it comes to sam say for example if you told me

00:19:11.500 samuel say is writing an article responding to something you said i would immediately know

00:19:15.500 it's going to be negative he's going to be glowingly positive now it's going to be negative

00:19:20.580 and i don't even need to know the topic i know it's going to be negative it's going to signal

00:19:25.700 tribally that sam say belongs with this tribe and that we belong with this tribe and because we

00:19:30.200 belong with this tribe we're bad and because he belongs to this tribe he's good and this is just

00:19:34.460 the nature of of this kind of discourse can you that's just one layer describe for people who

00:19:39.660 maybe you're unaware like what are those tribes so what tribe is sam in and i guess what are we in

00:19:48.880 in especially in his view yeah but what is the contention here behind this article okay so

00:19:55.580 there's there's two tribes ultimately and every christian can agree there's the kingdom of darkness

00:19:59.380 the kingdom of light um the kingdom of darkness where satan um seeks to rule and dominate and do

00:20:04.980 everything that he loves to do, bring death, chaos, destruction, opposition to God and his people,

00:20:10.080 opposition to all that is true and good and beautiful. Okay, that's one side. And then

00:20:13.880 there's Christ and his kingdom, the people of God, Christians who seek the earthly and heavenly good

00:20:19.960 in all that they do. Sinners in need of grace, but seeking imperfectly and through grace and by faith

00:20:25.960 to do those things. So we have those two camps ultimately. In every area of human life, you can

00:20:31.980 see those two camps operating, because there's no part of creation that's not claimed and

00:20:37.820 counterclaimed by God and by Satan and both of their various peoples, right? God and his hosts,

00:20:45.320 Satan and his hosts. So you can come to an area like politics and you see this. Go to the church

00:20:52.100 and you see this. Go to any aspect of human life and you're going to see this war raging. Within

00:20:57.720 that war today, we're talking particularly in this conversation about things that relate to

00:21:04.160 civic life mainly, but also touch on ecclesiastical matters. But really centrally, we're talking about

00:21:09.560 civic life, the political realm, the realm of the state, the nation, peoples, law, customs,

00:21:16.800 the order of nations, things like that. And in this conversation, I see those two camps represented

00:21:24.940 fundamentally right now through liberalism, which is like Marxist communism and its current

00:21:31.280 expression and liberalism and all those things. And then essentially truth, goodness, and beauty,

00:21:36.700 the Christian faith on the other side. And there's a third group though, third tribe

00:21:42.240 that is not new, but it's something that we constantly deal with in society. And that is

00:21:51.460 the servant, uh, the, the, the inside man, the servant of Satan who, who says that he's on the

00:22:00.980 team of light. So when you think politically and civically, it's pretty obvious that when you,

00:22:05.240 when you go like, Oh, atheist communists, they're on Satan's side, all of the degenerates trying to

00:22:10.520 trans kids, they're on Satan's side, right? We, we can tell that pretty, pretty readily. Um,

00:22:16.680 however there's this group that says like oh i'm not in there but they whether wittingly or

00:22:24.000 unwittingly become a servant of that group and it's what dabney described as the shadow that

00:22:28.500 follows radicalism to perdition it's the conservatives this is sort of like michael

00:22:33.720 malice said this i think which was that conservatism today is just progressivism

00:22:39.020 driving the speed limit yeah you see this group and so what it's headed to the same place because

00:22:44.400 what the satanic marxist communist side tries to do is they they're attempting to right now in

00:22:51.360 history destroy western christendom because that was like the peak of christian faith the high

00:22:57.120 watermark in history so far of christian faith and faithfulness so of course satan hates that

00:23:00.940 fundamentally and wants to oppose it civically religiously everywhere so communism marxism

00:23:06.400 this kind of liberalism is is really satanic a satanic attack on that it's trying to undermine

00:23:12.240 um all that is good and normal and beautiful and like all the all the order that god created in

00:23:18.460 the world hierarchy order get like all these beautiful things he wants to destroy and so you

00:23:23.840 have this satanic group that's attempting to basically say we're going to rewrite reality

00:23:28.840 smash up normal is how we've often put it and rebuild utopia with the pieces that's what satan

00:23:34.780 is trying to do but one of the tactics they use to try to accomplish that is to infiltrate

00:23:41.700 the other side and gain power inside of their courts and camps and thrones and churches

00:23:49.000 and subvert the institutional gatekeepers, subvert the prophets and priests and kings

00:23:55.280 that are supposed to be ruling and guarding the gate from Satan and his minions. That's their job

00:24:02.580 and subvert them and get them to serve the kingdom of darkness. Tale as old as time. This is what

00:24:08.220 Adam was supposed to do in the garden was to, okay, the serpent comes and he speaks against

00:24:13.720 God's word and he crushes his head and sends him out, but he didn't. He sinned and fell.

00:24:18.000 It's the same thing operative today. So we have this group in the middle that some of them are

00:24:23.660 wittingly, meaning they know what they're doing. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. They're

00:24:30.060 saying, I'm a conservative. I'm on the side of civilization and Christianity and I'm right wing

00:24:35.920 or whatever but they're really not they've actually fundamentally adopted the software

00:24:39.540 programming of liberalism yeah and they're just attempting to rewrite christianity in all of its

00:24:46.360 expression politically socially and custom and everything um to operate according to this

00:24:52.520 satanic software programming and would you put you would put sam in that group i think wittingly

00:24:57.060 or unwittingly that's what he's doing right now yeah a lot of got a lot of people are doing that

00:25:01.220 where they're they're wittingly or unwittingly it's probably like the babylon b guys they find

00:25:05.880 themselves defending what we've talked about as the post-war consensus. It's basically just a

00:25:11.180 liberalism that has like an acid sought to dissolve all of the structural beams that held up Western

00:25:19.200 Christendom and say, no, we can replace that with this other thing. You know, we've talked about them

00:25:25.760 inventing a novel theological apparatus like dispensationalism. And a lot of modern Christian

00:25:32.800 ideas are not actually Christian. Like trying to say that, oh, we should have open borders

00:25:38.300 because, you know, God loves the sojourner. And so here's some Old Testament verses. And that means

00:25:42.560 that Kenyans have to be able to come to America and be citizen. They have to be citizens of

00:25:48.240 Minnesota. Well, I think you've even seen this going on for a while this week as we're recording

00:25:53.260 this. Somebody had found and retweeted a 2012 tweet from John Piper in which he said something

00:26:00.780 like you know i'm standing in line to vote two-thirds of the people here are somalians

00:26:05.340 i love these people i love my country i love this city i love this and i just said well that

00:26:10.760 that aged like milk in the backseat of a car in summer yeah but it goes to show you and again i'm

00:26:16.700 not saying that necessarily john was like i am going to nefariously undermine but he was buying

00:26:25.120 the lie that was undermining the foundations of Western civilization. Satan is clever. And I even

00:26:31.260 said, I was like, can you imagine if one of us or a pastor had said, I'm in line to vote. Two thirds

00:26:36.660 of the people are here are white. I am so grateful to be surrounded by white people. I love this

00:26:42.420 country. It just shows you. People would have freaked out. Yes. It's just sort of the same

00:26:46.880 thing. We've seen an uptick. I think it was Owen Stranahan this week where he was talking about

00:26:53.760 how it's a sin to deny anything of the official narrative of the holocaust it's a sin or minimize

00:27:00.180 or something or minimize it or whatever like you basically you have to accept the the mainstream

00:27:05.800 narrative or you're in sin and so i said okay this feels like a foreign religion now yeah so

00:27:12.220 which other historical controversies what is the christian position on all of them yeah and i i

00:27:18.580 brought up the point like okay so is there a christian position on like the founding of

00:27:22.500 the modern nation of russia yeah is there a christian position on the like and of course

00:27:29.320 his his response is like all truth is god's truth so any attack on the truth yes but it begs the

00:27:34.560 question because what he's doing is assuming that which needs to be demonstrated assume that your

00:27:39.080 narrative of any controversial historical thing is absolutely correct and that is actually what

00:27:46.220 is at question. Yes. Have there been distortions? Have there been, and you have very serious

00:27:52.860 historians like David Irving going in and saying, hey, let's reexamine this. Was there a post-war

00:27:59.560 narrative that was developed in service of a political ideology? And I think the answer is

00:28:04.800 yes. Yeah. Especially when there's like on that issue, Joe Soberness pointed this out. Of course,

00:28:10.980 he denied being a Holocaust denier. He just said, I think it's a complex historical question.

00:28:16.220 And in order for us to have an important discussion about it, you can't say it's a part of orthodoxy.

00:28:22.340 Yeah, like what we should be saying as Christians would be something more like, okay, guys who think that it was 300,000 and mainly typhus and starvation due to allied bombing.

00:28:32.660 And guys who think that it was 6 million and not a person less and it was crematoriums and electric floors and Holocaust roller coasters.

00:28:40.920 Lampshades.

00:28:41.320 And that kind of stuff.

00:28:42.740 Okay, let's take both ends.

00:28:44.400 you guys get together and convince me that you're right. Yeah, let's hash it out. And that's the

00:28:48.740 Christian approach to history. Tell me what's right. And having some epistemic humility to say

00:28:53.920 there are limits to the extent of our knowledge and our certainty about our knowledge concerning

00:28:58.480 certain things. You know, especially, I'm not even necessarily saying like with the Holocaust

00:29:02.420 or World War II, go back to any, you know, historic event. There's lots of uncertainty

00:29:07.260 and debate surrounding nearly every major point of history. It's silly to say that this is a

00:29:13.700 testing point of christian faith and so when someone who is actually intelligent enough to

00:29:18.060 know what they're doing says that you just have to say i know what you're doing well for example

00:29:23.360 nobody nobody has that uh concrete of a stance on say like the armenian genocide you know and you

00:29:31.360 i've read different sides of it i'm like wow this is a complex issue there's lots of different data

00:29:36.360 we should critically think through it but if somebody came to our church for example and said

00:29:41.600 well I have a different view on the Arminian genocide I'd be like okay and now what you can't

00:29:48.740 have a differing view on is like the historicity of the resurrection yeah the uh there are actually

00:29:54.320 nature of god real documents the true the the full humanity and full deity of christ right like

00:30:00.960 the creeds of the christian faith like these are things that are anathematized in scripture that

00:30:08.260 you'd be damned for. But we're not damned or justified on the basis of our opinion about

00:30:14.680 a historical controversy surrounding World War II. Correct. So it's in that context that this

00:30:19.880 article is dropping. Yeah. It's in that context where the aim is to say like Ogden bad and James

00:30:28.180 White good or Ogden bad, this other tribe good. And you've seen this a lot and this all kind of

00:30:32.920 started a couple of years ago with the Christian nationalism debates. But this is fundamentally

00:30:38.500 where I find it dishonest is, and we'll get into this now, but the, if you just write an article

00:30:46.720 and you say my name and you say anti-Semite and Nazi as many times as you can in conjunction with

00:30:54.120 my name or your name or whoever, Stephen Wolf, whatever, then what you're doing is you're

00:30:59.260 creating an environment of denunciation where people are like whoa that's like these guys are

00:31:04.640 really scary now what we'll notice is nothing is ever demonstrated for example have we ever shown

00:31:13.460 you know unjust hostility toward jewish people or blacks or you name it yeah like someone who

00:31:19.620 women on the misogyny issue yeah someone who in terms of their family descent was black or hispanic

00:31:26.900 or jewish or indian or whatever is there some evidence that someone has come into our church

00:31:32.960 or into our presence and we've been like get out knowing nothing else on the basis of nothing else

00:31:38.960 is like i want to murder you because that would be what we call sin would be bad and sin is bad

00:31:45.560 my position is that sin in fact i'm gonna go on record right now i denounce sin stunning and

00:31:53.680 brave that is stunning and brave no but this is really the first major issue with the article

00:31:57.820 it's kind of thoroughgoing this theme but really the first major issue with the article is that

00:32:03.040 the title and framing from the beginning is highly misleading in an extremely polemical way

00:32:08.780 that i think people should understand is saying we should kill this guy ultimately you're you're

00:32:15.860 saying that sam right when when our culture today says someone is a white supremacist nazi a white

00:32:22.880 nationalist, whatever. What do they mean? They want you to die. Kill that guy. Yeah. That guy

00:32:27.160 shouldn't have a job. That guy is a scum of the earth. He should be removed from society. His

00:32:31.020 whole family should, like he shouldn't be able to provide for his family. It's ultimately,

00:32:35.280 this kind of assassination is an attempt at somebody's life in seed form. That's what it's

00:32:41.880 supposed to be. And people go, oh, you're hysterical. That's crazy. Really? Don't you

00:32:45.980 understand that that was what they were doing to Charlie Kirk and then they did it? Yeah. I mean,

00:32:49.980 even the we have things like the ADL you have entire organizations that are bent on you know

00:32:56.520 and Charlie was put on the hate list right before he was killed yeah and it was funny because all

00:33:01.180 these same conservative guys who liked Charlie Kirk would say things like we need to tone down

00:33:07.440 the rhetoric you're making it where you call somebody a Nazi that means that like you want

00:33:11.300 them to be destroyed you're inciting violence yeah and you're like okay let's look at your

00:33:17.120 article. Yeah. And, and if you're watching the YouTube video, you'll be able to see this on the

00:33:21.780 screen. Uh, Jamie, if you could pull that up for us here, but, uh, uh, the, when you open the

00:33:27.120 article or look at the preview to the link, you see two things, my face, and then the title should

00:33:34.200 black Christians repent from being black, which again is terrible grammar. It should be for being

00:33:39.320 black, but should black Christians repent from being black? And, and what is the implication

00:33:44.460 eric of of that which is a statement that's a type of speech what is he saying well i mean the

00:33:50.580 first thing when i read it i think wait did brian say that so there's an insinuation that you said

00:33:59.220 that it would be like if i put up a thumbnail on this episode of the king's hall and it had

00:34:04.500 samuel say's face and then i like a item so he's holding a bloody knife and it said like

00:34:09.380 should christians commit knife murders and then i'm over there doing the youtube face

00:34:16.560 you know like people i wouldn't be able to be coy and say like oh i wasn't saying samuel

00:34:23.000 said that knife murders were fine obviously that's what i'm saying because these types of

00:34:28.540 things are speech they're a kind of their speech via symbol their speech via you know shorthand

00:34:34.700 But his article and headline was clearly insinuating that Pastor Brian Sovey of Ogden, Utah, his position is black Christians must repent for being black.

00:34:48.160 Like they came out of the womb, the doctor looked and he said, man, your melanin level is this high, you're across the threshold, you're past just a good suntan, repent or you're going to hell because unrepentant sinners don't, you know, they go to hell.

00:35:02.640 well it gets to another issue too i i saw i forget the guy's name but he was one of the

00:35:07.720 black guys who was engaging with us on the girl on the train you remember there was kevin briggs

00:35:12.980 kevin briggs okay yeah so he responded to another post of mine this week and he said

00:35:17.040 we should never want to identify with a people group and he's talking about race we should

00:35:26.120 never want to say like i'm part of like white culture or i'm part of black culture he was

00:35:31.220 insinuating that that was sinful i see and he said you know we need to stop making it about skin color

00:35:36.500 and here's kind of a fundamental thing you're doing the same egalitarian thing that's done

00:35:41.940 with the feminism where a feminist will say oh because you have testicles like you're reducing 0.99

00:35:47.660 it to this absurd smallest part yeah where no one is saying that that being white is merely 0.90

00:35:56.180 melanin count no nor is that what i think you can look out at the world and you could say like if

00:36:02.940 you see a japanese person for example you know that that comes with culture language all sorts

00:36:10.580 of uh different markers not simply no one is making the argument that is simply about skin

00:36:16.560 color and again just to point out that is an egalitarian way of thinking about how god made

00:36:20.280 people. Yeah. We're talking about a race as an extended family with culture and all sorts of

00:36:27.860 constituent parts come with lots of people together over a long period of time. Right. Yeah. So the

00:36:32.920 first issue is that he's he's claiming and it is a claim. I don't care if he denies it. He made this

00:36:37.800 claim. It was sinful of him to do that. I'm saying or implying that black people must repent for

00:36:43.560 being black. But what I said was that black people, because of the widespread prevalence of certain

00:36:49.860 patterns of sin in black culture generally should not walk in those sins. They should reject black

00:36:56.020 culture. And then I described with an extensive list what I meant by black culture. And I'm

00:37:01.000 talking about things like high rates of homicide and violent crime, all sorts of things. Which he

00:37:06.100 actually agrees with. He wrote, it's funny, he said, statistically, a black man in America is

00:37:11.960 more likely to be a criminal than a faithful father. It's not racist to say that. It's saddening,

00:37:16.880 but it's true. He also approvingly quoted Votie Bauckham who said, rest assured, I do believe

00:37:22.700 there are systemic issues plaguing black men. These issues are violence, criminality, and

00:37:28.260 immorality to name a few. So, so more on that in the second problem with the article, but just from

00:37:34.660 the beginning, he's claiming that I said something that I didn't and that he, he knows I didn't say

00:37:41.460 because he word for word cites what i said later in the article we'll get to it and then makes

00:37:47.440 further wrong conclusions from it but this is a sinful misrepresentation of the truth and its end

00:37:54.940 is we should kill that guy so it's not a small thing this is what you're doing when you say

00:37:59.480 that guy's a he's a he's a racist he's a nazi he's this what people say or what they mean is

00:38:05.820 we should kill that guy yeah yeah which is a very it's a very serious thing the other thing

00:38:11.300 that i've noticed is like it really is an age-old stereotype where it's like again you remember uh

00:38:19.620 barry's law about women yeah uh right where it's like wait where he's law where he's i'm sorry

00:38:25.560 bendle where i just wanted to make sure that when wendell berry doesn't sue us

00:38:31.100 he's like that wasn't my he has worse laws but i think you could apply something like that here

00:38:36.680 where it's like in that case it was like men can't say it but if a woman says it first it's okay it's

00:38:42.060 okay that was one of the the points of his law but here it really is again the age-old stereotype

00:38:47.260 like a black guy can say it but a white guy can't say the same thing it's funny even the black guy

00:38:51.860 has to quote another black guy yeah he's like look vody said it by the way i have this funny game

00:38:57.020 on x which is kind of playing off this it's very subtle okay it's kind of like a deep cut okay but

00:39:02.460 You'll notice that 90% of the GIFs I use are black people.

00:39:05.360 I did notice this.

00:39:06.760 It's sort of like a, I'm not racist.

00:39:09.540 I use black GIFs.

00:39:12.640 So that's like saying, I'm not racist.

00:39:14.960 I do blackface.

00:39:17.920 Is it a form of blackface?

00:39:19.620 People did claim that.

00:39:20.620 The Libs at one point were like, white people can't use black GIFs.

00:39:23.360 That's blackface.

00:39:24.220 That might have been why I was like, I'm going to do it.

00:39:25.740 And then you started doing it.

00:39:26.980 We're going to do it anyway.

00:39:28.000 I knew it.

00:39:29.020 Okay, so that's the first problem.

00:39:30.480 um he says that i said something i didn't say which is ironic because his name is say

00:39:37.580 and because it's slow to think is his whole i'm sorry slow to write i call it slow to think that

00:39:45.960 was a freudian slip slow to write is his whole like slogan he should be slower to write but i

00:39:52.360 mean he really should the second the second one is that he claims that we have quote embraced

00:39:59.320 racial partiality. And he does this without any demonstration of his claim. He makes this claim

00:40:04.860 and then he quotes this from an episode of the King's Hall. And this is what we said on that

00:40:08.420 episode. Let's say that somebody was coming into our church and they're black. Would they be eligible

00:40:13.120 for membership in our church? Yes, of course they would. They'd be eligible for membership in our

00:40:17.620 church. But would they be permitted to participate in, embody, and practice what I would call black

00:40:23.780 culture generally in our church? The answer is absolutely not. Why? Because the things,

00:40:28.260 the characteristics that mark black culture are as a generalization in the same way Paul's talking

00:40:33.080 about Cretans on Crete. They're evil, murderous, violent, bestial people. They steal, they kill,

00:40:37.820 they destroy. They look like Satan in how they act. They're sinful to the core and they have

00:40:42.020 besetting sins that are like fatherlessness, sexual immorality. They molest children at a

00:40:46.660 high rate. Any criminal statistic that you could look at almost pretty much without exception,

00:40:51.000 they excel at them. Black culture. You look at that culture and you say, what are the besetting

00:40:55.240 sins and characteristics of it and you say could somebody come in lawful church membership embodying

00:41:00.680 that culture no they would have to self-consciously repudiate that culture so that that's what i said

00:41:07.520 on the episode and we also talked about having to repudiate like the sins of white people everybody

00:41:13.640 has to repudiate the sins that their forefathers and that as a people they have to keep a careful

00:41:18.200 watch for them yes so the question is do does that statement demonstrate that we've embraced

00:41:23.280 racial partiality? And the answer is no. And no, because these are not unjust weights and measures

00:41:30.560 that are being used arbitrarily against just one people group on the basis of some immutable

00:41:36.320 characteristic like their skin color or their genetic descent through a family line. The point

00:41:41.300 is that nobody could come in a church membership at Refuge Church in Ogni, Utah, embodying any of

00:41:46.060 those sins that I listed, whatever color they were, and that every single person who comes into our

00:41:51.600 church, is going to be taught to take a careful watch and say, what are the sins common to my

00:41:58.400 culture, my family, my people, my nation, and set a particular watch. This is the Christian virtue

00:42:05.420 of watchfulness, which has been written about. The Puritans wrote whole books on watchfulness.

00:42:10.820 It's setting a watch over the walls of your life and saying, look, 10 different generations of my

00:42:15.820 family were all drunks. You know what? Maybe I should set a careful watch for drunkenness.

00:42:20.300 and what i'm saying is blacks in america today should go like some massive percentage of blacks

00:42:26.840 in america commit violent crimes and father children they don't you know are sexually

00:42:33.060 promiscuous to do all and love abortion and things like that i should probably set a careful watch

00:42:37.660 and train my family and my sons to say now a lot of people that look like you are going to walk in

00:42:41.720 these sins we do not walk in those sins we're christians yeah everything every cultures it

00:42:47.240 wasn't part like the sin of partiality means that you're treating two people in an unjust way where

00:42:54.800 you're using unjust weights and measures so they're assuming something here that wasn't said

00:43:00.400 which is like if i'm getting this right basically he's assuming that we would say hey black people

00:43:07.040 need to repent white people don't yes or asian people don't no just of course not what that's

00:43:12.940 not we said, and no reasonable person would agree with this. And, and the reason that I directed

00:43:18.440 that list of things to blacks in particular, again, is because blacks in America walk in

00:43:24.200 these sins in massively disproportionate ways. And what's funny is that Samuel say in the article

00:43:30.120 agrees with me on that. He even grants that making generalizations about entire peoples

00:43:35.140 and cultures can be lawful. He says this quote, most people, especially woke people call the

00:43:40.800 generalizations about black culture racist, but I don't think negative generalizations are

00:43:46.100 inherently racist as a Ghanaian Canadian. I know there are generally true, positive and negative

00:43:51.980 stereotypes about Canadian or Ghanians and Canadians. It's not always racist to make

00:43:56.640 negative generalizations about a culture, especially when they reveal some truths.

00:44:00.780 And so reading that you might ask like, okay, so what is he disagreeing with me on then?

00:44:06.280 and this is what he says, this is why he's the saint and I'm a sinner in this. He can say all

00:44:11.560 those things, but I can't. He said the basis for Sovey's words about black culture starts and ends

00:44:16.500 with what he would demand from a black individual who wants to become a member at his church.

00:44:21.720 He suggested that a black person would have to repudiate black culture in order to join his

00:44:25.820 church. Why should a black Christian be subject to repudiating other people's sins before they

00:44:30.800 become a member of a church? What does that black individual have to do with black culture? How is

00:44:35.500 this any different from Tabidi Anyabwile, otherwise known as Ron Burns, saying that white people need

00:44:40.220 to repent from Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination. Woke pastors like Tabidi Anyabwile

00:44:44.700 imply that white people need to repent from, again, from being white, and white nationalists

00:44:51.040 like Brian Sauve imply that black people need to repent from sick being black.

00:44:57.860 There is a huge distinction here though. Yes. You are not asking people to repent of things they

00:45:04.160 didn't actually sin for. No. Because to quote a Brian Sauve meme, no, that's retarded. No,

00:45:10.740 that's retarded. Absolutely not. If someone came into our church and, and like at the membership,

00:45:17.360 what they're, what they're doing is they're envisioning the membership interview where we

00:45:20.060 pull out a different file of questions, depending on the color of the person. And we go through and

00:45:24.760 we say like, Hey, you can't, you know, Oh, you're, you're black. Have you committed grand theft auto

00:45:30.820 in the last 12 months.

00:45:31.980 Like that's not what we do.

00:45:33.700 But what we do is that in our membership interview,

00:45:36.580 it flushes out all of the major categories of sin

00:45:40.080 that might lead to church discipline commonly

00:45:43.040 in America today.

00:45:44.340 And it tries to head them off.

00:45:46.020 And it would head off every one of those sins

00:45:48.660 that we talked about

00:45:49.560 that describe black culture in America today.

00:45:52.060 It would also head off any white person, Asian,

00:45:54.280 whatever from walking in those sins.

00:45:56.260 Kind of maybe an example.

00:45:57.720 If like Lecrae showed up to our church,

00:45:59.800 which i'm not sure why he would he's not a fan but if he showed up and he was like he's got his

00:46:05.080 t-shirt on what is it it's like something in the ratchet oh um isn't it about some degenerate ho

00:46:10.860 well that's a different one with like cardi b he's like i listened to cardi b and like

00:46:16.460 philippi read philippians or something like this what cardi b and corinthians

00:46:21.160 righteous and ratchet so yeah if a guy came into our church and he was like hey i'm one of them

00:46:27.600 christians who's righteous but i still embrace the ratchet life which somebody had to explain

00:46:32.820 this to me isn't it like it's like you tell me what ratchet means it's like the violence of the

00:46:37.860 ghetto right jamie okay yeah like with somebody's ratchet it's like they're violent like the ghetto

00:46:43.980 people we have a zoomer in the room yeah and we just i literally had no idea what that meant okay

00:46:49.140 but so if a person came in and be like i'm one of them like i do the whole righteous ratchet thing

00:46:53.440 And we would say, no, no, you can't actually continue to embrace a label that is the sinfulness of, of black people.

00:47:02.020 You cannot do that.

00:47:03.820 And, and likewise, if a guy came in and he's like, yeah, I'm one of those like righteous methods from the trailer park sticks.

00:47:11.640 You'd be like, no, you're not.

00:47:13.120 No, no.

00:47:14.040 And here's the play that these guys do.

00:47:15.900 It's the whole woke thing where he's like, Tabidi says white people need to repent of Martin Luther King Jr.

00:47:21.280 So you're doing the same thing.

00:47:22.280 You're telling black people to repent of sins they didn't commit.

00:47:24.220 I'm not doing that.

00:47:25.680 Tabidi actually believes that white people generally are complicit in the murder of Martin Luther King Jr.

00:47:31.760 Yes.

00:47:32.040 Because of their whiteness.

00:47:33.140 They actually have real guilt because of their participation in this system of whiteness.

00:47:38.320 I don't believe that all black people have their own complicity with the ratchet ghetto culture that I'm describing generally.

00:47:46.820 I actually don't believe that.

00:47:48.420 An equivalent would be like saying, I believe Clarence Thomas is guilty of the murders committed

00:47:54.280 in Chicago. No, we're not saying that. But, but what I am recognizing is that any black in America

00:47:59.600 that doesn't participate in that culture is doing so self-consciously. They know that I'm not going

00:48:05.220 to walk in those sins. I know that that is the general pattern of black culture in America today,

00:48:09.000 and I'm not going to do it. And the reason I know that Samuel Say knows that Vati Bakum knows that

00:48:13.620 Virgil Walker knows, knows that is because they all say it. They talk routinely about what happens

00:48:18.200 to them when they say, no, I'm going to be a good upstanding Protestant Christian. I'm not going to

00:48:23.260 walk in those sins. What do they get called? Uncle Tom's. They get called all sorts of names. Uh-oh,

00:48:29.200 Oreos, right? Or the, an Oreo, you know, black on the outside, white on the inside. Okay. They know

00:48:35.960 it. They know that if they won't walk in these sins, they're going to get reviled by the people

00:48:40.580 walking in those sins. Why? Because they self-consciously repudiated that culture and

00:48:44.240 say, I'm not going to walk in it. So we can't just pretend like we have all these, you know,

00:48:48.220 black Christians in America walking around the ones who are really brothers and are obeying the

00:48:52.460 Lord and walking in righteousness and pretend like they're not, they haven't self-consciously

00:48:58.060 said, I'm not going to walk in that culture because they have. Yeah. Just like, just like,

00:49:02.280 I would say like a white girl today growing up has to self-consciously repudiate the feminist 1.00

00:49:09.600 culture if she wants to be a Christian that permeates our nation and has to say, no, I'm 0.90

00:49:15.220 not going to go to college and get a degree and getting woke. And I'm not going to rack up debt

00:49:19.360 and a huge body count. I'm going to stay into my father's headship. I'm going to marry a good

00:49:23.600 Christian man. I'm going to be the mother of his children. I'm going to be a homemaker.

00:49:28.080 All of that is her self-consciously rejecting the culture of feminism that broadly describes 0.57

00:49:32.100 women today. So she has to do something very similar. Men generally have to do something

00:49:37.020 very similar and say, I'm self-consciously going to reject the pornification of the world.

00:49:41.240 I know that 70, 80, 90% of men are looking at porn today. I absolutely refuse. Everybody has

00:49:46.660 to do this in the world today. But what happens is there's unjust, there is partiality, but it's

00:49:51.840 in the other direction than what Sam is saying. The second I say to blacks, hey, get your house

00:49:56.960 in order. Oh, up in arms, you're a racist, white supremacist, you're all these bad things.

00:50:01.660 But they can talk about white sins all day and nobody bats an eye.

00:50:04.980 yeah i sort of had this thought this week that um you just seen a lot again the uptick of pastors

00:50:10.940 who are railing against the so-called sin of ethno-nationalism yeah and which is a redundant

00:50:18.320 term first of all yeah um but as you look at that you think they're really railing against white

00:50:24.980 people yep you're not railing against like the black community for having you know black in-group

00:50:30.600 preference you're not railing against thai people you're not railing against somalis

00:50:36.100 yep you're really railing against white people um there's there's a line it's it's worth repeating

00:50:42.260 you remember it from steven wolf about white people yeah that white white people were the

00:50:48.500 only group that are our own in groups out group which means which means that every other group

00:50:54.240 they have an in group and an out group and it's like you you can see this in data where if you

00:50:58.540 poll different racial groups in America. What do you think about your racial group about, let's say

00:51:04.380 blacks? What do you think about blacks? What do you think about Hispanics? What do you think about

00:51:07.000 whites? What do you think about Asians? Every racial group, blacks, Hispanics, whites, and

00:51:11.400 Asians all rate their own group significantly higher than any other group and whites the lowest

00:51:17.800 except whites. Whites generally rate them other groups higher than themselves. Interesting. Or

00:51:24.620 right close to where they're pretty equal. And so Stephen's point was whites were the only people

00:51:31.360 who have been uniquely discipled to consider ourselves as the scum of the earth and everybody

00:51:36.740 else is better than us. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Like we're our own in groups, out group.

00:51:42.300 So I want to ask you a question. When Samuel says, and I'm going to quote here,

00:51:47.020 white nationalists like Brian Sauve implied that black people need to repent from being black.

00:51:52.100 What is he doing? Well, he's lying. He's demonstrating that he's not a careful thinker

00:51:57.880 because he's either lying because he's incompetent and unable to discern human speech,

00:52:03.140 or he is malicious and evil and intentionally maligning me on the basis of a falsity.

00:52:11.360 So he's a liar in either at best an incompetent liar, at worst a malicious liar. And he's doing

00:52:18.120 so in a way that genuinely says to the broad American culture, kill this guy and his family.

00:52:26.120 And like, there's a reason we have security systems in our houses. Like there's a reason

00:52:30.880 our church was protested by Antifa for weeks. There's a reason we've both received specific

00:52:35.300 death threats many times. And it's because of this culture, that's what they believe about us.

00:52:40.520 So what Sam is saying is, let me identify with that group over here and try to kill the Christians.

00:52:46.640 Yeah, this was crazy to me is Sam, you know, he claims to be a Christian.

00:52:52.960 I'm assuming is a Christian, maybe.

00:52:56.620 Based on some of this behavior, though, when you have a repeated pattern about lying about the brothers and accusing them in such a way that would get them killed.

00:53:05.840 That's where some of the fruit, I just look at this and I'm like, I think a lot of Christians are duped.

00:53:10.540 Yeah.

00:53:11.180 But they need to seriously think about what they're doing.

00:53:13.620 is that does that comport with the standards of christian behavior that are outlined in scripture

00:53:20.360 is that how we're to treat one another

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00:56:30.300 what's interesting though is you know we'll be called false teachers we'll be called wolves

00:56:37.760 we'll be called all these things and and again it's even sadder when it's people who name the

00:56:44.460 name of christ who are doing this yeah we're saying yeah like i actually want you to be

00:56:48.860 destroyed yeah and we'll we'll get in so we're going to do another episode on ethno-nationalism

00:56:53.700 because it's come up a bunch joshua torrey you know had that tweet ethno-nationalism is a sin

00:56:58.260 um i think didn't owen have one too yeah well his was on the he said denying any any any downplaying

00:57:04.820 or denying of the holocaust is sin yeah there was that one so it's kind of been going around a lot

00:57:09.240 people are i think confused about what a nation is what a country is what a people what you know

00:57:15.120 what does ethno mean all these different things so i'm not going to go deep on that now i want to

00:57:19.720 save that for the next episode or maybe one of the next episodes we're going to do go through

00:57:25.140 in a lot of detail kind of like what where do we land what do we think about these things

00:57:29.520 but notice what sam's doing here oh eric and brian are white nationalists now first of all

00:57:35.920 we've called ourselves christian nationalists many times i have advocated quite vociferously

00:57:43.100 for the removal of foreigners from the united states of america we've talked a lot about how

00:57:48.880 immigration is a weapon of Satan to destroy America, which it absolutely is, and that there's

00:57:56.460 a massive amount of racial strife in America because of some of these stupid policies that

00:58:01.420 are wicked and evil that are really aimed at replacing white Christians and the West in

00:58:08.000 general, destroying the West and replacing it with an easily dominated and ruled third world.

00:58:14.680 okay we're gonna get into why that is but what sam doesn't do in this article is engage in a

00:58:21.840 weighty and serious way with any of the words that we've said about that and instead he does

00:58:27.760 the buckley thing instead he does the denouncement game let me pulled out what do i think is the most

00:58:34.260 scary label i could put on these guys white nationalist that's what these guys are oh

00:58:40.700 their white nationalists. Now I'm not giving any ground right now to even, cause again,

00:58:45.660 we're going to do an episode on it about, because even that label should like, if someone says that

00:58:51.520 you are a Japanese nationalist, should that terrify you? If you were a Japanese native and

00:58:57.840 you were like, no, we shouldn't do what America did. Like let's keep Japan 98 plus percent racially

00:59:02.340 homogenous because that's going to lead to an orderly and harmonious society where we preserve

00:59:05.440 our culture. High trust society. High trust society. Great. Let's do it. Would that be a

00:59:09.800 terrifying word? No. Would it be terrifying to say, I'm a, I'm a Nigerian nationalist. Like I

00:59:14.560 really believe that Nigeria should remain the native stock of Nigeria. No, but, but the second

00:59:20.280 you do it with any white country, if you said, I am a British nationalist. And by that, I mean

00:59:25.720 that the traditional stock of the heritage stock, if you will, of Britain should be the people that

00:59:32.660 are citizens of this nation and the, you know, make up this nation. If you did that with America

00:59:38.700 and you said, uh, you like, okay, I, I believe that America is an Anglo Protestant nation and

00:59:44.760 its founding. And that if we dilute that with the influx of millions and millions and a high

00:59:49.920 percentage of foreigners, it's going to destroy our culture, destroy our people, destroy our

00:59:54.100 religion, destroy our nation. The second you do it with any white nation, oh my goodness,

00:59:59.540 you're satan you're evil but you can do it with any number of other nations and often you can even

01:00:05.280 do with some european nations and people are fine with that because they're kind of all cooked

01:00:08.920 already but but those same people would never they would never import the same scary evil meaning to

01:00:17.980 that word so i want you i'm addressing this on two levels the first level is i know what sam is doing

01:00:24.760 with the label white nationalist he's trying to get again people to want to kill us that's what

01:00:28.340 he's trying to do and say that we're demons and we're evil and whatnot and i say on that i would

01:00:32.340 say i see you i know what you're doing and you're a liar because that's not even ever been the label

01:00:37.360 that i would use to describe myself but second like most leftic tactics the second you actually

01:00:43.480 start digesting it or dissecting it it's kind of a retarded tactic yeah it kind of doesn't make

01:00:49.220 factual sense to think of that as a terrifying thing to say like oh i'm an anglo-protestant

01:00:53.080 nationalist so yeah so you like you deal with nations the way that nations have been considered

01:00:57.560 for most of human history and even Christian history.

01:00:59.980 I think the other part is that this neoconservative post-liberal order,

01:01:04.860 like a lot of people pointed this out, but it's collapsing.

01:01:07.400 Yeah, they're terrifying.

01:01:09.040 This is why we've seen people upping, like the Christian nationalism wars,

01:01:14.320 again, we mentioned earlier, but when that first started,

01:01:16.640 it was like we were using more nuanced arguments.

01:01:19.780 People were more subtle.

01:01:21.360 Now it's like you're in sin if you believe in Christian nationalism.

01:01:25.440 Well, I think what's happening is people get desperate as they're losing.

01:01:29.120 Oh, yeah.

01:01:29.720 And but just to know this, like a lot of people are waking up to this, especially the younger generations who grew up being called racists.

01:01:38.180 And then if you have a brain and you think about it, you're like, OK, just this is very simple.

01:01:42.760 Walk with me through this.

01:01:44.080 If I criticize a Jew, I'm an anti-Semite.

01:01:47.340 If I criticize a person who is black or brown or yellow, then I'm a racist.

01:01:51.980 okay and if i criticize a white person what am i a hero like that's how they think yeah and i think

01:02:00.080 just most people are like this this is ridiculous yeah it's ridiculous it's the the spell is breaking

01:02:04.240 people are starting to go wait you've been telling me that two plus two equals purple for a really

01:02:08.640 long time and i'm just starting to see that i think it might be four and then they're like you

01:02:12.700 racist nazi anti-semi puppy stomper and you're like what the what the heck and then when people

01:02:17.880 freak out like that, it makes you go, oh, this must be important because Satan wants to destroy

01:02:22.660 everything that touches this. So this must be a key pillar of his strategy in the world today,

01:02:28.140 because the second you touch it, everything blows up and people are like, you're not even allowed to

01:02:33.140 think about that, let alone talk about it. And in my mind, I always go back to this. And then we

01:02:37.540 have another point to address here. I think about Gideon and the Lord was delivering the people

01:02:43.900 through Gideon by raising up a judge.

01:02:45.960 And the first thing that he had Gideon do

01:02:48.400 was destroy a public altar in a public space.

01:02:51.940 Yeah.

01:02:52.740 And that is fascinating to me that he said,

01:02:55.120 I want you to do something.

01:02:57.280 I want, and this is what,

01:02:58.920 I think this show is mostly like

01:03:00.900 one of the main things we're trying to do is

01:03:02.740 we're going to take the idol,

01:03:04.140 we're going to put it in the public square

01:03:05.380 and we're going to burn it.

01:03:06.720 Oh yeah.

01:03:07.240 And then you just watch.

01:03:08.740 And this is actually a helpful exercise

01:03:12.440 because you get to find out where people really stand.

01:03:15.460 And I think this is that knee-jerk reaction

01:03:18.140 that people have where it's like,

01:03:19.280 I don't know why I believe these things,

01:03:21.980 but I'm enraged at you.

01:03:24.540 Well, you're burning an idol in the public.

01:03:27.080 And there's a bigger aim

01:03:28.800 in what we're trying to do with that.

01:03:30.300 It's not even just to be,

01:03:31.700 oh, those are the guys that burn idols.

01:03:33.700 No, no, no, no.

01:03:34.620 Those are the guys that are seeking

01:03:36.160 to restore Western Christian civilization.

01:03:39.660 You destroy the idol because you want a people

01:03:41.800 who worship the one true and living God.

01:03:43.860 You want a people who doing that can then free themselves

01:03:47.480 from the oppression of elites who hate you

01:03:49.940 and want to destroy you.

01:03:51.760 Like that's the whole reason we're doing this work.

01:03:54.720 So I, you know, I think it's encouraging

01:03:57.680 you look around the country.

01:03:58.740 And when we started this, like there was some people.

01:04:01.660 Yeah.

01:04:02.140 There were some people who were like,

01:04:03.400 yeah, we're on your team.

01:04:04.340 That's kind of crazy though. 1.00

01:04:05.740 But now, I mean, even feminism, 0.99

01:04:08.660 like tons of people are talking about feminism now. 1.00

01:04:11.360 Yeah. 1.00

01:04:11.800 And now there's other idols that you have to go after.

01:04:15.320 Yeah, even like all the way back in season one of the King's Hall,

01:04:18.640 we did a whole episode talking about how much of the communist Marxist liberalism

01:04:23.960 of today is a satanic proxy war against Christianity via whiteness.

01:04:29.340 Yes.

01:04:29.660 Like they're really trying to destroy the foundations of Christendom

01:04:32.680 where God in his providence, it was his goodwill and it pleased him

01:04:35.940 that he caused Christianity to advance and flourish in the West

01:04:40.220 and in europe and in the in the british empire at its zenith that was god's good pleasure to do

01:04:46.820 that and he used it as a vehicle to spread christianity far across the world and to bring

01:04:51.420 much much righteousness into the world and so satan hating that has been waging a proxy war

01:04:57.300 against christ but he's been doing it and we said this again back in like 2021 via this proxy war

01:05:03.400 against whiteness but it's really the same thing and so today yeah this this conversation has

01:05:10.320 matured it's become much more mainstream we've seen guys like jeremy carl writing you know the

01:05:14.140 unprotected class showing how the legal and cultural aspects of this recently and kind of

01:05:18.400 shining a big light on it but um this is an idol that needs to be crushed to powder and the people

01:05:23.980 need to drink it anti-white it is self-hatred it is hatred of your father it's a fifth commandment

01:05:31.120 violation. It's the type of sin that Paul in 1 Timothy 5 says causes you to deny the faith. The

01:05:37.700 man who doesn't provide for his house, for his family, especially members of his own household,

01:05:41.540 has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever, which ties in with something else

01:05:44.820 he talks about, that non-believers in the last days will be astorge. They will be without natural

01:05:49.900 affection, which is like the affection Paul felt for his kinsmen according to the flesh.

01:05:53.980 It's a natural affection God gave us. We have been taught for several generations in the West

01:06:00.400 to hate our families and hate ourselves.

01:06:04.720 And that is vile wickedness.

01:06:07.060 And it's an idol, it's satanic.

01:06:09.260 We need to name it with explicit fervor

01:06:12.100 and we need to crush it up and destroy it.

01:06:14.220 And yeah, lots of people who have been under the sway

01:06:16.880 of this lie and have been actually taught

01:06:19.700 that black is white and white is black

01:06:21.540 and that righteousness is sin and sin is righteousness.

01:06:24.220 They're gonna think that you're committing a sin

01:06:26.220 when you blaspheme the idol.

01:06:27.860 but no, no, no. I'm actually trying to obey the Lord Jesus Christ and say no more of this sin.

01:06:34.100 Not in, not in me, not in my family, not in this church, not in the works that we do at

01:06:38.840 New Christian Impress. We're not going to participate in it. Yeah, that's right. And I

01:06:42.300 think on the question of race in particular, again, it's just got to be something where we

01:06:48.400 have a rational discourse about it. You're going to hear, I think as we and other people talk about

01:06:54.460 it you're going to hear things you say i agree with that well maybe not with this let's work

01:06:57.740 through that there's a process of working through it but in none of it you'll know it's a bad faith

01:07:03.400 argument when somebody starts calling you a racist you're like wait a minute and i think

01:07:08.140 in particular it's like the male female thing i remember this in the early days of addressing this

01:07:13.220 is like people were trying to force you to deny your eyes yeah like don't trust your lying eyes

01:07:19.320 you kind of look at it and and it's like the wakanda myth right like hollywood they all want

01:07:25.820 you to believe that like blacks were the true inventors of great civilization and technology

01:07:30.940 and then you start looking to it you're like okay those things are just not true though

01:07:34.320 but they didn't have second story houses in sub-saharan africa until colonizers got there

01:07:40.580 not two-story houses so it doesn't seem to follow from what we see and like we were having a again

01:07:48.440 we're going to talk about this in the, in ethno nationalism episode, but like I was having a

01:07:53.380 conversation with people and their programming is just so evident because a guy was, he was telling

01:07:58.220 me like, you know, you can't ever say that some group like, oh, I get what you're saying, Brian,

01:08:03.580 about nationalism and this stuff. But like, you can never say that some people are better than

01:08:08.320 another people, some nation or some race or whatever is better than, and I was like, wait a

01:08:12.240 second. Why? You're telling me that one of the rules that God, apparently God said is that I'm

01:08:17.780 never allowed to compare group a and group b with respect to characteristic y and ask which of those

01:08:24.960 two groups is superior with respect to that characteristic which is crazy because in the

01:08:28.520 old testament then you would have to you would have to charge god with sin over and over because

01:08:32.500 he says like this people is exceedingly wicked don't be like them it would it even in non like

01:08:37.980 controversial things it would mean history is impossible we could never like historical

01:08:41.640 analysis we could never ask the question which had greater the greater war like culture spartan

01:08:46.820 or athens oh that beats to ask of two people groups were they which one is superior with

01:08:51.760 respect to thing why warlike tendencies in this group or we could never say um which culture

01:08:59.020 has produced the the better art nigerian or um italian in the in the period of the 1600s

01:09:06.900 we could never make it we could never say like which one has the higher iq japanese people

01:09:12.280 in the year of our Lord, 2025 on the average, or, um, you know, I don't know, Scottish people

01:09:17.420 like those would all be sinful questions to ask or to answer at least. Yeah. They're not,

01:09:24.420 especially when like, if you just think about it, you're like, well, yeah, like people are

01:09:27.680 different. And this is the thing. Maybe it's a good place to kind of wrap things up, but

01:09:31.180 those are glories. Those are all glories. God did that. Yeah. So it's like you, you have different

01:09:36.280 people, different races. I know that's going to be shocking to people. I think you can,

01:09:40.920 You can maintain that there's one human race and also that there's distinction.

01:09:45.060 Yeah, Acts 17, 26 does that very thing.

01:09:47.760 We all descend from one man, and God from that one man made nations with borders, and he appointed their borders.

01:09:52.660 When we say races, we're talking about families that descend commonly from some ancestor.

01:09:57.660 That's what we mean.

01:09:58.320 And that's what I was pointing out on Twitter.

01:10:00.900 Even the word nation, if you look at the Latin root, and the Greek as well in the scripture, it just means people descended of the same birth race.

01:10:08.240 Yeah, in French, the word is renaissance is from,

01:10:11.580 it's hard to not pronounce in a really French way,

01:10:14.000 netra, which is birth.

01:10:16.740 Renaissance is a rebirth.

01:10:18.900 So nascent, nation, these are all related to birth.

01:10:22.840 They're all related to heritage, progeny.

01:10:26.460 They're all related to families.

01:10:28.100 Natalism.

01:10:28.680 And what we need to understand,

01:10:29.980 we are really getting ahead of ourselves.

01:10:31.200 I know.

01:10:31.780 But what we need to understand is that these things are like,

01:10:35.000 this is how our forefathers thought

01:10:37.280 and not because they were sinners,

01:10:39.160 because they were wiser than us on this question,

01:10:42.240 because they understood the world God made better

01:10:44.560 on this point,

01:10:45.420 and they understood the scriptures better on this point,

01:10:48.340 which is what we should expect

01:10:49.840 if we've had an all-out frontal assault

01:10:52.300 for a century or more from Satan on this point

01:10:56.640 for his nefarious purposes.

01:10:59.140 That's what's been happening.

01:11:01.040 So when we say all this,

01:11:02.600 at no point are we saying like,

01:11:04.200 Darwin was right.

01:11:05.540 retards no he's not like I didn't descend from a seahorse are you kidding me I'm not stupid like

01:11:14.200 I didn't descend from an amoeba like are you stupid no Darwin was not right and also these

01:11:22.420 concepts are pre-Darwinian they are not like just inherent results of evolutionary thinking in fact

01:11:29.280 evolutionary thinking is just one yet another attempt to take what god created smash it up and

01:11:36.820 redefine it and make its own thing out of it and try to explain the world through the lens of some

01:11:41.220 lie instead of through the lens of the truth so a christian can reject both darwinism and modern

01:11:47.580 multiculturalist follies at the same time wow it's actually possible you can actually do this

01:11:53.640 you can do it um so i guess for a lot of people you know we we of course over the years we've

01:11:59.160 changed and grown and, and, you know, maybe there was a day, maybe if you go to back to like the

01:12:03.340 year 2000 or something, when we're, you know, we're either getting out of school or we're in

01:12:08.400 the public school system, whatever, where I might've read Sam's article and be like, oh yeah,

01:12:13.740 like, you know, a hundred percent, why nationalism, whatever. Um, but I guess what would the word be

01:12:19.980 to people who are maybe in the following of somebody like Sam, like maybe they read that

01:12:25.420 and they're like, oh, that's interesting.

01:12:27.700 But they're willing to think about it and come out of it.

01:12:30.500 But it's kind of scary.

01:12:32.680 Yeah.

01:12:32.940 What would you say to that person?

01:12:34.280 Yeah, I would say that you should fear God

01:12:38.380 and God requires us to tell the truth.

01:12:41.820 So when you encounter an idea

01:12:44.520 and you have this knee-jerk reaction to be like,

01:12:47.960 ah, that's bad and evil and scary

01:12:49.200 and I can't talk about that.

01:12:50.120 I'm not allowed to talk about that.

01:12:51.380 I'm not even allowed to go down the line of thinking

01:12:53.460 to investigate that question.

01:12:55.420 you should say, have I been discipled in some kind of unexamined priors,

01:13:02.180 unexamined prior commitments that are guiding me, leading me, ruling me?

01:13:09.900 And are those good prior commitments?

01:13:12.280 Now, there should be some of those.

01:13:13.540 Like if someone told me that there was a way that we were going to be able to replace marriage with AI and sex robots,

01:13:20.640 I wouldn't even need to investigate it.

01:13:23.300 I'd just be like, that's satanic, go to hell.

01:13:26.100 No, absolutely not.

01:13:27.640 But this is not like that.

01:13:29.940 What we're actually saying is, go read the Bible,

01:13:32.420 pay attention carefully to how it talks about

01:13:35.100 peoples and borders and nations,

01:13:37.880 and then think about our modern multiculturalist world

01:13:41.580 and egalitarianism is the key.

01:13:44.420 This is the key universal acid

01:13:46.900 that Satan is trying to use to dissolve Christian culture

01:13:50.260 and dissolve christian nations is egalitarianism and then go see if you don't see egalitarianism

01:13:56.860 everywhere you start looking don't you think a big part of it just starts with epistemic humility

01:14:01.460 yeah i mean for me it's just thinking through things and saying like okay let me just give it

01:14:07.760 a fair hearing let me let me read about it let me learn some things about it um i kind of learned

01:14:12.860 this with zach garris with honor thy fathers where even as somebody pushing towards patriarchy

01:14:18.660 i would hear him say things i'm like i don't know about that but then i i just i would kind of say

01:14:24.300 well i should do the reading i should learn more about this i should go back and read what the

01:14:29.180 church father said you start reading that and you're like whoa that's way different uh-oh and

01:14:35.420 and you're gonna have the same thing with with sexuality of course that you do with race where

01:14:40.080 you start reading about it and you you can come to basically one of two conclusions either our

01:14:45.420 fathers were wise as you said or they were all racists and i've actually heard modern pastors

01:14:51.440 say things like well obviously the reformers were all racist if they had the greater light

01:14:55.400 of knowledge that we have today they all would have repented of all of those wrong things that

01:15:00.700 they committed against the modern liberal order when it comes to racial egalitarianism and

01:15:05.600 cultural egalitarianism and all these different things and then all you have to do is ask yourself

01:15:09.460 okay these new ideas that are supposedly better when did they enter the world and from who and

01:15:14.920 And then you're from whom? And then you're like, oh, like French revolution, the Bolsheviks.

01:15:21.120 Wait a minute. Maybe that's wrong. Oops. Maybe that's wrong. Yeah. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe

01:15:27.460 they're wrong. So it's hard to not think tribally. We all do it. It's actually, um, it's not always

01:15:34.020 sinful to think tribally. Like you should think about what commitments you have, what honor and

01:15:38.960 loyalty that you owe to different people. That's actually part of righteousness in the world,

01:15:42.760 but we need to be careful that we don't end up kind of steered into a camp that is denying

01:15:50.180 the truth and then attacking people who are promoting the truth merely because of my tribal

01:15:55.780 alliances when it's a tough thing right when you uh jd hall said this in one of his articles this

01:16:01.400 week but i thought it was really insightful he said you realize that the way that most false

01:16:05.180 teaching enters the church is because it's like well but i trust that guy and there was a time

01:16:11.220 i i was there where everybody trusted russell moore and then he would drift a little and he

01:16:16.160 would drift a little more yeah and people like jd would call it out and even i at the time i was

01:16:21.140 like i don't know like but he was the dean of school of theology and we've always viewed him

01:16:27.000 as like a bastion of conservatism how can this be he's writing patriarchy yeah he's given talks

01:16:32.480 on patriarchy and like let's trust him and and again there's a good healthy trust of authority

01:16:39.120 that we, that we ought to cultivate. But I think I've had enough life experience with that where,

01:16:46.200 and here's the real thing. You, you can't worship celebrities. People will do this with people they

01:16:51.720 don't know because it makes the average person feel secure. I'm going to just blindly trust

01:16:57.340 the institutions and the authorities above me. And I guess really what we're asking people to do is

01:17:02.340 like open your eyes and think clearly about this. Yeah. And every single person at Refuge Church,

01:17:07.600 every single member is 100% allowed to come to any of us and the other pastors and say,

01:17:13.920 that's, I think you're wrong about this. Can you explain it to me? Can we talk about it?

01:17:18.020 What were you thinking? And we have those conversations all the time. It's in fact,

01:17:23.400 one of the things that we've sought to cultivate in the church is just an environment where any

01:17:29.320 of these controversial subjects, someone could go to the men's book group and say, hey, I just

01:17:34.980 read this book on fill-in-the-blank controversial topic from fill-in-the-blank controversial person

01:17:39.100 what do we think about that like this part seemed persuasive to me i was really concerned like this

01:17:44.220 part seemed wrong to me am i wrong am i right like that's a totally normal thing to happen at refuse

01:17:48.980 church it happens every day every week i think it's part of the process of teaching people

01:17:53.480 discernment and of course as wise leaders when there is poisonous stuff that enters the camp

01:17:58.680 you're going to address that yeah plenty of the time we'll say like oh yeah no that that part of

01:18:04.200 this thing that, that 80% was right over here, but that, that part, I think it was wrong. And

01:18:08.700 here's why. Yeah. Don't go down that road. I think that, and you can do this with tons of

01:18:13.600 different things. Like even we've, you'll see in the forthcoming Longhouse book from New

01:18:20.620 Christian and Press. It's going to be so good. That, oh yeah. Can we, can we say there was this

01:18:25.640 influential writer in this period of recent history named BAP, bronze age pervert. This is

01:18:31.520 what he wrote. It was super influential to a lot of people. Let's analyze it. And we're going to

01:18:36.760 say he was totally wrong about this. You know what? He really tapped into something that's

01:18:40.040 actually true here. And he's not, he's a pagan. He's not a Christian, but he really tapped into

01:18:44.300 something true here. And like, this is what Christians can do because we have the word of

01:18:49.100 God as a lamp to our feet and light to our path. We have the spirit. We shouldn't be scared of

01:18:52.640 having those conversations. So my goal is we do it imperfectly, but it's like, let's just figure

01:19:00.220 out what is true and say what is true. And as much as we can try to avoid the politicking

01:19:09.240 of the thing. It's very difficult. Yeah. I think that's kind of the last element I would point to

01:19:17.520 is it's fundamentally people are jockeying for social credit to climb some sort of hierarchical

01:19:22.820 ladder. So I think for like Samuel, you'll see him do this continually. Like he's always going

01:19:27.580 to signal favorably to like the Allie Bestuckie, TPUSA crowd. Cause he's like, Hey, bring me in.

01:19:34.980 I'm, I'm a safe, black, conservative Christian commentator. Elevate me to a higher platform.

01:19:41.760 Yeah. And that's fundamentally what this, this sort of thing is about. I've pointed this out

01:19:45.340 a lot too, about Owen Stranahan. But one of the things is like, you'll see every time he shifts

01:19:51.200 jobs, the messaging change. Yes. So I would just say about guys like that, like that would make

01:19:57.120 me very leery of a person like your message is going to change every time you get a new position

01:20:01.640 so now you're in like arizona boomer normie con world you're clearly trying to get in with you

01:20:08.120 know like that neoconish tpusa stuff would owen strand have been vocally and publicly defending

01:20:14.600 bikini wearing when g3 was his most central alliance no absolutely not because he would

01:20:19.000 have gotten cooked by all the g3 guys because which who were who would have been right and

01:20:23.060 owen wrong but now as he's drifted more towards like hey i'm tp usa i'm this big kind of platform

01:20:28.940 safe conservative i'm not going to condemn i'm not going to i'm not going to really be come down on

01:20:33.520 you about all of the promoting of scantily clad lady influencers so let me signal that bikinis

01:20:39.900 are now okay bikinis are okay having wrong thoughts about the world war ii is that's the real sin

01:20:46.000 owen is doing that because of tribal alliances for the sake of gaining access to greater platforms

01:20:51.060 And that's just evident in what he's doing.

01:20:53.520 So like we need to pay attention to these kinds of things and be able to identify them because they help you think clearly about issues and know like, oh, I'm not going to trust that voice.

01:21:02.060 The other thing I would say is like having guys in your circle, we're all tribal to some extent.

01:21:07.820 I think it's more like we should recognize the tribal influence, not say that it's all bad.

01:21:12.540 um but i do also think it's good to have guys that you talk to where you just like i think of

01:21:22.880 a guy like john moody i've really respected him because it's like he's just going to say the true

01:21:26.560 thing if he thinks you're wrong he literally doesn't care if it takes this tribe off or that

01:21:31.560 he's not a respecter of persons that's right and so i think also um having guys like that that

01:21:36.800 challenge you yeah um and then and then building a tribe hopefully where you're you know the tribal

01:21:41.460 things are like true things you want it to be principled and truthful the glory of the tribe

01:21:46.400 is the glory of the tribe but it's not an excuse to disobey god that's right that's what we're

01:21:52.440 trying to do yeah god's the one who by the way made a world of tribes in it love it his idea

01:21:57.960 i'm happy because i love my love my tribe i love my people i love this community i love our church

01:22:03.580 i love the team here at new christian and press like friends this is this is no place i'd rather

01:22:09.760 be with and and you could say brian you could get hired to go be on this giant platform in wherever

01:22:17.060 in washington dc and i'd be like absolutely not i have a basement to be in i have a hundred year

01:22:24.280 old basement i don't think you understand how good the basement is so absolute last thing declined

01:22:29.840 that i want to do is kind of tease this a lot of people are super excited they heard some of your

01:22:34.380 songs at the conference um we've got another album coming out i know there's a little bit

01:22:40.980 of weight and so you don't want to you don't want to tease it too much it's coming in the last

01:22:44.320 stretch it's coming in the last stretch um when i hear you sing these songs i think about the way

01:22:53.600 the elves sang to the hobbits and made their hearts glad wow that is high praise the ironically

01:23:01.560 songs one of the songs is about tom bombadil but just one of them exactly just one of them

01:23:07.420 fellowship of the ring by the way one i love this they're like tasteful the narrator whoever is like

01:23:12.620 they were singing in elvish and the hobbits didn't know the words and yet the words were

01:23:16.780 made understandable to their hearts and they were like filled with gladness and i was like

01:23:20.560 heart songs that's what this is so uh i i think what's interesting is sort of

01:23:27.480 let's talk about one one we're teased one song okay yeah the lady song yeah this one's for the

01:23:35.100 darkness yes so just tell me a little bit about it yeah i wanted to write a song to fix women

01:23:39.700 that was my goal i sat down and i literally wrote down like a song to fix women what would i do like

01:23:46.760 what how would i how would i do it so the song is kind of a cautionary tale it's about a woman

01:23:52.980 who you know first a young woman and then a woman who uh goes off to college and gets a degree and

01:23:58.840 gets her apartment and freedom and all these things and she's not going to be anybody's

01:24:02.580 marionette she's not going to be you know pulled on anybody's strings she's not going to have you

01:24:07.240 know man she don't need no man she don't need no kids she's got her vacations she's got her

01:24:11.660 pills that she can take when she's feeling there's a line about the pills yeah what is the

01:24:16.680 Well, because that's the, that's the reference is that, um, there's a verse that one for the

01:24:22.760 pleasure. This one's for the pleasure. Just, just get on this pill. Oh, Hey, here's another.

01:24:27.540 This one will make certain you're never a mother. This one's for the pleasure. This one's for the

01:24:32.720 pain. And this one's for the darkness that's settling in. And this one's for the end when

01:24:37.580 you're dying alone. So that's the verse. It like, it like makes me cry every time. It's really a

01:24:44.280 light and it's very light we are sitting through the the kids are this way we're sitting through

01:24:49.400 the the concert at the conference and i'm like crying and one of my younger sons he goes are you

01:24:57.060 crying i was like quiet shut up be quiet try to be a brutal american over here yeah this is the most

01:25:06.720 widely variable album I've ever made. I've done Psalms albums. I've done

01:25:12.300 hearth songs, which is like very thematically focused on the home and my kids and my wife and

01:25:18.300 like that kind of thing. This one is a little bit more broadly varied. I mean, there's a song

01:25:23.160 about Tom Bombadil. There's a song to fix women. There's a song about how much I love America

01:25:27.600 and the different aspects of our homeland that is literally based on a Stephen Wolf tweet.

01:25:32.780 the chorus is is quite literally based on a steven wolf tweet i told him that he hasn't

01:25:38.380 asked for royalties yet so we'll see there's one about uh that's from proverbs five about

01:25:46.040 warning a son against the forbidden woman um i'm excited about the album it's also stylistically

01:25:52.460 i've been aiming kind of leaning more and more into some of my my favorite types of music that

01:25:57.820 of more like, um, it's not country because I'm, I'm not Southern, so I can't authentically make

01:26:04.940 country music, but I love country music and I've grown up, grew up on country music, uh, in my,

01:26:10.300 from my dad. So the, it's influenced, it's influenced sonically and in the writing by,

01:26:16.440 um, some of that just kind of rattling around in my brain a little bit. It's a lot more banjo,

01:26:21.120 a lot of fiddle. Uh, I'm excited for it. We'll see. We'll see if it's good. I, the longer you

01:26:27.160 work on an album as a musician i think a lot of musicians can identify the less positive you feel

01:26:32.320 about it usually so i'm like wow that's great very exciting so a couple months yeah hopefully

01:26:37.840 out in a couple months i'm i'm working through the instrumentation now and i should be doing

01:26:45.020 like final vocals is the last stage before it goes off to mixing and mastering and i'm hoping

01:26:49.880 to do that within a month from today or here in early january well that'll be exciting uh once

01:26:55.320 again do want to say we appreciate all our patreon supporters thank you guys could not make this show

01:26:59.360 without you and uh if you're not already you're gonna join us become a patron oh yeah you're

01:27:06.100 gonna join us in the after hours right after this and that's if i may say so myself it's really our

01:27:11.760 best when the gloves come off it's really the best it's the best yeah uh so thank you guys

01:27:16.080 and we'll catch you in the next episode

01:27:17.580 well in case you didn't know we have another king's hall show called the after hours and it's

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The King's Hall - January 30, 2026

Responding to Samuel Sey

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