The King's Hall - The First Crusade & the Retaking of Jerusalem

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00:00:56.600 As discussed in the last episode, in November of 1095, with Constantinople on the verge of a Muslim

00:01:06.740 assault, Pope Urban II spoke from a platform outside the French city of Clermont and called

00:01:12.880 Christian men of the West to rally to the defense of its Eastern brothers. Many took the cross and

00:01:19.280 answered that call, including Bohemond, Duke Godfrey, and Count Raymond of Toulouse. They did

00:01:25.040 so to shouts of Deus Volt. By 1097, the Crusaders prepared for the first major conflict of their

00:01:32.360 long march toward Jerusalem. It would take two more years for the Crusaders to reach their final

00:01:39.360 destination in 1099. The first major battle the Crusaders fought in was at Nicaea. This campaign

00:01:46.360 consisted mostly of the Prince's Crusade and a small detachment of Byzantine engineers to help

00:01:52.280 with siege works. Nicaea was the capital of the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, the Turkish word for

00:01:58.320 Rome, and was ruled by Kilij Arslan. After defeating the People's Crusade, Arslan was

00:02:04.400 relatively unconcerned when word spread that a Frankish army was approaching. The siege of Nicaea

00:02:10.200 began on May 14, 1097. Arslan gathered his army and prepared for an assault on Raymond of Toulouse

00:02:16.900 and Robert of Flanders' forces, located just outside the city gates.

00:02:22.840 After a brutal day of fighting, Arslan was surprised by the skill of the Franks.

00:02:27.460 As one historian said, man for man, his Turks were no match for the well-armed Westerners on open ground.

00:02:33.760 As another said, the Turks came along gleefully, but as many as came had their heads cut off by our men,

00:02:39.460 who threw the heads of the slain into the city by means of a sling,

00:02:43.160 in order to cause more terror among the Turkish garrison.

00:02:47.460 The crusaders then planned for an assault on the city of Nicaea.

00:02:51.300 To their surprise, and without their consent, Alexius had sent a contingent to negotiate with

00:02:56.260 Arslan. As a result, Byzantine banners flew over the city, and Arslan was given an escort to

00:03:02.060 Constantinople. The crusaders, sensing a great betrayal, were enraged. This was only further

00:03:08.360 confirmation to them that Alexius and his court were not to be trusted. The Gesta Francorum said,

00:03:14.500 the emperor, who was a fool as well as a knave, was ready to injure the Franks and obstruct their 0.99

00:03:20.220 crusade. On June 19th, 1097, Nicaea capitulated, so the crusaders marched on. They were led by 0.97

00:03:28.640 Bohemond, the Norman of heroic proportions, and his nephew Tancred, as well as Godfrey,

00:03:34.060 lord of Bouillon and descendant of Charlemagne and Raymond. The crusaders were then ambushed

00:03:39.480 by Arslan and his 30,000 Muslim troops near Dorilheim, which would be the fiercest of the

00:03:45.660 battles they had yet fought. Assaulted by a barrage of Muslim arrows and stunned, the Westerners fled.

00:03:52.860 Bohemond, in response, sent word to Godfrey, if they would like to see the beginnings of the

00:03:57.720 battle with the Turks, what they want is now here, come quickly. Regrouping after the initial attack

00:04:03.660 and retreat that happened on July 1st, Bohemond responded by putting all non-combatants at the

00:04:08.880 center of his ranks. Women were called upon to draw water for the soldiers from a spring located

00:04:14.020 within their perimeter. Part of the problem for the Turks was they thought Bohemans' forces were

00:04:19.380 the entire crusader contingent. As such, the Muslim forces were alarmed when they realized

00:04:24.840 they were being attacked against their flank and reared by heavy cavalry charges from the

00:04:29.860 remaining crusader knights. Charged to fight bravely as Christians by priests and commanders,

00:04:36.000 the crusading forces formed a battle line. Now, writes Ibrahim, it was the Muslims' turn to become 0.99

00:04:42.120 acquainted with Western warfare. Shocked and awed by the heavy cavalry charges, the Muslims galloped

00:04:48.280 off, notwithstanding their vast numbers. Many thousands from both sides were slain, end quote.

00:04:54.820 Both sides were becoming acquainted with the other's fighting style. Muslims would send clouds 1.00

00:04:59.360 of arrows that blotted out the sun. Crusaders would mount unstoppable cavalry charges and 0.99

00:05:04.400 best the Turks in hand-to-hand combat. One historian said, in hand-to-hand conflict,

00:05:10.340 horseman against horseman, foot soldier against foot soldier, the Europeans and the Byzantines

00:05:15.200 had the better of the Turks, end quote. Muslims also conceded this point. To them, the Westerners

00:05:21.240 were fearless knights who formed mountains of steel, seen by Muslims as descendants of Ad,

00:05:26.680 that is, giants, or not men at all. They carried stout, broad-headed lances or spears of tempered

00:05:32.640 steel. Both the Turks and Crusaders suffered serious losses that day, but the losses on the

00:05:38.560 Muslim side were far worse. Eventually, the defeat was so thorough that Arslan's men fled in full

00:05:44.920 retreat, were pursued and mown down by knights for a full day, and Arslan once again lost his

00:05:50.640 entire treasury. As they retreated, however, the Turks burned everything in sight, leaving little

00:05:57.160 provision for the Westerners to feed themselves. The Crusaders marched for three months unopposed

00:06:02.540 until they reached Antioch. On the way, they were met with starvation, thirst, disease,

00:06:07.940 exhaustion, and delirium. As Rodney Stark describes it, after resting for two days following the

00:06:13.680 battle, the crusaders set out to cross Anatolia on their way to Antioch. It was a dreadful march.

00:06:19.820 The summer heat was intense. There was no water. The wells and cisterns built to store rainwater

00:06:25.340 had all been destroyed by the Turks. As the Gesta tells it, they were passing through a land which

00:06:30.940 was deserted, waterless, and uninhabitable, from which we barely emerged or escaped alive,

00:06:36.540 for we suffered greatly from hunger and thirst, and found nothing at all to eat except prickly

00:06:41.060 plants. On such food we survived, wretchedly enough, but we lost most of our horses.

00:06:48.340 Meanwhile, Eastern Christians marveled at the sight of these foreign titans.

00:06:53.000 Fulker writes,

00:06:54.140 It was astonishing to see the Eastern Christian natives advance towards us with crosses and

00:06:59.080 standards, kissing our feet in garments for most holy love of God, because they had heard there

00:07:04.800 that we would defend them from the Turks under whose yoke they had been oppressed for a long 0.51

00:07:08.720 time." By October, the Crusaders had besieged Antioch. At one point during the Christian era, 0.83

00:07:17.860 Antioch was the third largest city in the Roman Empire, behind only Alexandria and Rome. Since

00:07:24.200 then, oppressed by its Muslim overlords, however, this once great Christian city was in a sad state. 0.66

00:07:30.660 Because it was so well fortified, Bohemond and the others carefully considered the city's 0.81

00:07:35.360 weaknesses. Perhaps most importantly of all, the local emir had converted the Christian cathedral

00:07:41.080 into a horse stable and had been enslaving or mistreating Christian residents. This,

00:07:47.100 as Bohemond rightly saw, made Antioch a seedbed for potential traders.

00:07:51.920 In October of 1097, the official siege began. Unfortunately for the Crusaders, their food and

00:07:59.900 supplies grew increasingly low, and many died of starvation. As Rodney Stark points out,

00:08:05.260 Emperor Alexius could easily have sent ample supplies by sea, but did not. The Crusaders

00:08:11.240 did receive a resupply from 13 Genoese ships in November, but supplies were quickly consumed,

00:08:17.080 and hopes grew desperate. As such, many deserted, including Peter the Hermit. Bohemond sent his

00:08:23.860 nephew, Tancred, to bring Peter back and publicly disgraced him, though he did let him live.

00:08:30.240 Later, a Turkic ruler began beheading Christians within the walls and throwing their heads at the

00:08:35.760 Frankish forces. Ready to return the gesture, Bohemond brought those Muslims he had captured 0.94

00:08:41.480 back to the gate of the city where, to terrify the citizens who were watching, 0.95

00:08:45.800 he ordered that they be decapitated, and their severed heads were launched into the city.

00:08:51.800 Eight months into the siege, the crusaders were starving and desperate. Finally, Bohemond made 0.94

00:08:57.700 a clandestine deal with a Muslim tower captain, formerly an Armenian Christian who had converted

00:09:03.080 during persecutions, and at night Western forces entered the city. As Ibrahim writes,

00:09:09.620 the result was a bloodbath, not unlike those visited upon Christian cities throughout Anatolia. 0.58

00:09:15.800 and Armenia at the hands of the Turks throughout the preceding decades.

00:09:20.180 One eyewitness reported,

00:09:21.920 All streets of the city on every side were full of corpses,

00:09:25.080 so that no one could endure to be there because of the stench,

00:09:28.400 nor could anyone walk along narrow paths of the city except over the corpses of the dead."

00:09:34.760 The next day, Kirbin Ha, a Turkish lord, arrived with 35,000 reinforcements.

00:09:41.720 As a result, the besiegers now became the besieged.

00:09:45.800 The crusaders were once again forced to eat filth and shoes, and many drank the blood of horses.

00:09:51.960 Morale reached new all-time low for the men.

00:09:55.640 Was God not on their side? 1.00

00:09:58.020 Peter the hermit was sent to deliver a scathing indictment to the entourage from the Muslim forces. 0.98

00:10:04.700 In return, the Turks became irate.

00:10:07.440 As a result, the knights made preparations to ride out and meet the Turkish army.

00:10:12.800 Men partook of the Eucharist and offered themselves to God. 0.57

00:10:16.900 Overly confident, Kirbinha idled his time away in his tent, playing chess. 0.79

00:10:22.000 When he was informed that the Christian knights, some 20,000 in number,

00:10:25.760 were advancing mightily against his troops, Kirbinha barked at one of his subordinates.

00:10:31.660 Didn't you tell me there were few Franks and there would never be a fight against me?

00:10:36.380 A wild battle ensued. 0.74

00:10:38.120 knights stung by barrage after barrage of arrows bristled like porcupines but moved forward with

00:10:44.960 ferocity nonetheless. The knights held formation and kept in order to the point that Muslim forces 1.00

00:10:51.300 fled in panic. Outnumbered yet triumphant, virtually every medieval chronicler said the

00:10:58.040 victory was a miracle from God. Were not angelic hosts led by St. George, patron saint of Christian

00:11:04.500 warriors, witnessed by many fighting alongside the knights? One chronicler asked. According to

00:11:10.260 one historian, modern military historians have attempted to come up with a more rational

00:11:15.960 explanation for the Franks' success. But the task is difficult. How did a force as spent and starved

00:11:22.600 as the Crusaders manage to overcome a superior, well-fed, and well-rested adversary? For the rest

00:11:29.820 of the year, the beleaguered crusaders would recover their strength in Antioch.

00:11:35.280 Boaman would remain there as governor. In early 1099, the crusaders would resume their march to

00:11:40.880 the final destination and ultimate goal, Jerusalem. The King's Hall podcast exists

00:11:48.000 to make self-ruled men who rule well and win the world. Well, gentlemen, welcome to another episode

00:11:56.420 of the king's hall podcast i am one of your hosts i'm eric khan joined by pastor brian sauvet and

00:12:02.220 pastor dan burkholder let's start with brian mainly because well you're the best looking

00:12:07.600 frenchman we have i mean i'm the only frenchman that you have but i nonetheless compliment

00:12:12.160 accepted compliment accepted you're you're welcome uh dan burkholder welcome to the show

00:12:16.900 the norman bowman we're talking about your people yeah i i mean i am bowman i am bowman

00:12:24.660 they thought the guy was a giant. That's fantastic. Well, gentlemen, it's great to be

00:12:29.200 talking about the Crusades again. I know we started last time talking about the Crusades

00:12:33.600 and really just Crusade 1, but Brian, it's fascinating as we look at this, there's really

00:12:38.600 so much to cover because it's a big period of history. The Crusades are interesting, I find,

00:12:43.880 because particularly in Crusade 1, you just have so much information. Oh man, yeah, we could go

00:12:47.820 down so many rabbit trails in what we just flew over. I mean, Beaumont, one of the reasons that

00:12:54.620 reasons he knew so much about he was the most experienced military leader in on this campaign

00:12:59.940 and one reason was because he had gone back to our previous season was because of his father

00:13:05.380 he had gone on all these military campaigns in the eastern christian world in his youth with his

00:13:11.700 father so now he's coming back and he knows this area and there's just little rabbit trails like

00:13:15.940 that down that we could doors we could walk through throughout these crusade stories and

00:13:21.320 my hope one of my big hopes in this series is that we just spark the thirst for some of you

00:13:28.760 listeners to want to start learning more about this because there is so much in these stories

00:13:34.400 yeah it really is incredible uh one of the things that's encouraged me too is uh you dive into the

00:13:39.260 reading we've seen kind of a spark among other people really in some interesting circles um we've

00:13:44.960 got guys like calvin robinson uh interested in the crusades i think he had been before but uh dan

00:13:50.840 And it seems like this is becoming part of the conversation for people.

00:13:53.860 And I want to ask you just kind of broad level question about that.

00:13:57.680 You know, it's crusades, but also, you know, the first Christendom.

00:14:00.600 Why do you think this is catching fire?

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00:14:42.960 Yeah, that's actually a really good question.

00:14:44.800 And I don't necessarily know the exact reason for this.

00:14:48.860 I think some of it is because of the Christian nationalism discussions.

00:14:54.140 And as people are engaging on social media with men like Sulla or like Franco and hearing

00:15:03.060 this idea of a Christian prince and curiosity of our forefathers and what does a Christian

00:15:10.820 nation look like, it ultimately leads down these paths of looking at the first Christendom. I think

00:15:17.280 that's part of it. And so I would like to take all the credit myself right now for sparking all of

00:15:23.340 this interest. It's really just the King's Hall. It's just the King's Hall. No, basically the

00:15:27.600 King's Hall. Obviously this is a curiosity for most Christians. One of the ways I'll just tell 0.98

00:15:33.260 you personally how I got there is there's one day I'm thinking through this. We're not pacifists,

00:15:39.440 Right. And so that must mean that there is a place for Christian violence that is is a justified Christian violence. 0.98

00:15:46.940 I don't I don't mean like some revolutionary unfettered, you know, revolution, you know, type spirit, but that there has to be some category for Christian violence that is righteous. 0.86

00:15:58.340 And so what is that? Otherwise, we were just pacifists. 0.72

00:16:01.880 That's where my interest suddenly turned to like, well, what did happen during the Crusades?

00:16:06.080 And I think it was Ben Garrett who, who's like, Hey, you should watch these YouTube videos on history of, of the crusades.

00:16:11.780 And, and they're actually not as bad as you've probably been taught.

00:16:15.360 And so that's, that was some couple of years ago, really sparked my interest into the crusades.

00:16:21.760 And I think that I'm just probably, we're all products of our culture.

00:16:25.180 And so I'm not some original thinker.

00:16:27.720 None of us really are.

00:16:29.040 there is a zeitgeist that is predominant amongst, I think, the most based Christians right now

00:16:34.980 to really have this curiosity of Christendom. What does a Christian nation look like? What

00:16:40.240 is the way forward? Because you also see the demise like we're heading off the cliff

00:16:44.020 as the government continues to print a trillion dollars, one trillion dollars every month

00:16:49.260 per second. And well, per month, it is per month. Crazy. And Biden just just proposed a new capital

00:16:57.440 gains tax bill that would increase cap increase capital gains taxes on the wealthiest people i.e.

00:17:05.760 the people that take the most risk in investing and starting businesses and you know the most

00:17:10.300 intelligent and so people like dan people like dan burkle obviously the most wealthy of men but

00:17:16.300 you see like as as the economy continues to tank and as social you know programs continue to to

00:17:22.520 overwhelm the world social welfare and then they're going to tax those that actually produce

00:17:27.180 the most wealth, the most jobs, the best ideas, the best innovation, you know, that's just one

00:17:31.960 aspect of our culture right now. You see that everything's heading off the cliff. And so you

00:17:36.400 have to wonder like, what would it look like to actually change? What is it going to take?

00:17:40.560 Because something has to change. It cannot continue this direction. And so I know that

00:17:47.140 was a long and rambly answer, but I think that's really why this has found such fertile soil.

00:17:52.180 these ideas of Christendom, of the Crusades, what do you actually have to do in times with

00:17:59.000 tyrants rule and the direction of a whole people is that, which is off a cliff. And we have

00:18:06.500 examples. We have many examples of this. We talked about Alfred, you know, with yet to be England

00:18:12.820 as the people of God were being judged for licentious behavior and adultery and fornication.

00:18:20.060 And even like we talked at Yarmouk, where they thought that they were being judged because 0.62

00:18:25.080 of cross-dressing and homosexuality, transgenderism, if you will. 0.52

00:18:29.040 And so you see this happening and you know, the judgment of God is coming. 0.99

00:18:33.160 What do we have responsibilities to do?

00:18:36.180 What ought we do?

00:18:37.280 And so I think that's why this is so popular right now.

00:18:40.460 Yeah, that's, that's really helpful.

00:18:41.840 Brian, I want to ask you the same question first.

00:18:44.500 Yeah.

00:18:44.740 I was recently reading The Last Battle.

00:18:47.660 and you know it's funny because there's this you know the story that uh lewis tells is that this 0.93

00:18:54.380 dumb little darwin monkey uh named shift is telling the people they're like you know they 0.83

00:19:00.840 have a fake donkey who's dressed as aslan and uh they're trying to pass this off but one of the 0.97

00:19:06.900 things he says the calamarians they have scimitars and turbans okay who do they represent

00:19:11.420 clearly the muslims no but in the line it's this propaganda which i found was really interesting

00:19:17.260 And Dan, this is kind of my answer to the question is that we have been propagandized

00:19:22.960 so long.

00:19:24.000 And then once people start to realize that parts of it are untrue, that they've been

00:19:29.360 told a lie, I think people start waking up.

00:19:31.620 So you have, again, this Darwin ape monkey, and he says, you know, to everybody, Tosh

00:19:38.460 is Aslan.

00:19:39.960 Aslan is Tosh.

00:19:41.100 And I was thinking this is, you know, 60 years ago, but Lewis really was onto something.

00:19:47.040 you've seen that rhetoric sped up now and, you know, perhaps on steroids, but we're told all

00:19:53.660 the time, you know, that, um, Allah is the same as Yahweh, same God, one religion. And, um, you

00:20:01.460 know, you go back, you read the crusades and you're like, clearly not. Yeah. Clearly not the

00:20:07.060 case. Uh, so Brian, I'll pitch that to you. Why do you think this subject matter is resonating,

00:20:13.580 taking hold? Why do people find it so interesting? Well, we talked in the first part in the Crusades

00:20:19.800 in Crusades one about this idea of a global globalization, pro globalization, pro secular

00:20:30.820 liberalism kind of contingent that is bent on taking over the world and imposing their utopian

00:20:40.080 ideals and their ethic and really their religion on all nations that's that's straightforwardly

00:20:46.420 happening that's not like a conspiracy theory that's not a tinfoil hat that's like as solid

00:20:50.780 as anything alex jones has ever said so i mean 100 100 i mean the guy's got a good track record

00:20:57.140 for calling stuff but in in all seriousness that really is like we know this that there is a

00:21:03.700 concerted effort towards essentially what is a religious utopianism that is promulgating

00:21:11.340 globalist ideals. And what's really convenient in achieving that end is watering down and

00:21:20.440 deracinating every major competitor, every religious competitor, like Christianity and 1.00

00:21:27.520 Islam. If they can, if they can syncretize both of those and they can say that, yeah, 0.99

00:21:32.020 Roman Catholicism and Islam and Protestantism, these are all really fundamentally the same

00:21:38.160 things in Judaism, and they all worship fundamentally the same God.

00:21:41.800 They have basically the same moral ideals. 0.63

00:21:43.820 Well, to really to promote an idea as asinine as that, because it's ever it's a completely 1.00

00:21:49.300 stupid idea. 1.00

00:21:50.240 It's just nonsense. 1.00

00:21:52.460 They make completely opposite claims.

00:21:54.740 Their gods are totally different.

00:21:56.200 Their moral systems are totally different.

00:21:57.740 Their aims are totally different. 0.94

00:21:58.940 If you're going to successfully convert the world to your religion and subvert all of the competing religions to become a non-competing syncretistic mush that is malleable in your hand, which is really what is happening there with Tash and Aslan and Shift and the Kalermans in The Last Battle, well, if you want your religion to win, you have to weaken all the other ones and turn them into mush. 0.88

00:22:24.440 and so you have to cut them off from their history so that you can make absurd claims 0.91

00:22:28.600 like Islam and Christianity worship the same God.

00:22:31.420 Well, to do that, you have to cut them off from their history, their heroes, and I mean 0.99

00:22:34.640 the Muslims and the Christians, and make a new kind of Islam and a new kind of Christianity 0.99

00:22:39.040 that are both basically spineless and weak and that you can bend to your purposes. 0.99

00:22:44.240 Well, what's happening right now is that there is a significant portion of Islam, the Islamic 1.00

00:22:50.440 world that laughs at that idea and just says, aha, the decadent West. There's no way we're 1.00

00:22:56.920 going to fall for that. We're not Christians. We don't worship the same God. In fact, we're going

00:23:02.740 to conquer all of your lands. We're going to invade them via immigration and whatever means 1.00

00:23:07.500 necessary, because that's what our prophet told us to do. And so we're going to do that. We're 1.00

00:23:12.020 going to take over everything. The problem is the Christians largely are giving in to these ideas 1.00

00:23:16.420 and have been for some time. 0.98

00:23:17.780 So they've been essentially successfully co-opted

00:23:21.980 by this big globalistic push.

00:23:24.400 They've allowed themselves to become deracinated

00:23:26.840 and cut off from the roots of their faith

00:23:28.820 and their history. 1.00

00:23:31.360 And so what we're seeing is Muslim ascendancy

00:23:33.700 in a lot of these formerly Christian lands, 1.00

00:23:37.220 which that should echo

00:23:39.140 with narratives you've heard before.

00:23:42.200 They've done this before by the sword. 0.99

00:23:43.920 They're doing it now via immigration 0.90

00:23:45.180 and other mechanisms. 0.99

00:23:46.420 And so to your question, why are Christians now in, especially in the farther right corners 0.55

00:23:53.240 of Christianity, rediscovering things like the Crusades and the former glory and war

00:24:02.020 like capacities and muscular versions of our faith that have existed in history?

00:24:08.680 Well, because we need to, because if we're not going to be overrun and replaced and destroyed,

00:24:15.300 we're actually going to need to look back and say, hang on, how did we deal with this in the past?

00:24:21.240 And we find then that you can reconnect to the roots and no longer be deracinated. You can

00:24:26.580 be rooted and you can rediscover the heroes of the faith. And you can say, no, we're not going

00:24:34.720 to give into being co-opted by your utopian globalist religious strategy. We're not going

00:24:41.260 to worship your false gods in fact um we're going to do what our forefathers did when they were

00:24:47.260 faced with such threats i think that i think that's a big part of it there's a million vectors that

00:24:53.540 this interest comes through um in the providence of god but yeah but that's that's my basic reading

00:24:58.980 of the landscape of why these things are resurgent today yeah i also also think it resonates with

00:25:04.960 people i was just doing uh deus vaults on el sid of course lord the lord el syed as the muslims

00:25:12.400 called him but it's interesting because you look at the iberian peninsula and spain which by the

00:25:17.560 way this is same time period as the first crusade yeah um so 1080s into 1099 uh pope urban actually

00:25:25.300 before calling for the first crusade had called for aid to be sent to spain and part of the reason

00:25:30.680 why was because Ferdinand the Great has died Alfonso is defeated and then you've got really

00:25:38.860 two minor kingdoms in Spain that remain and those belong to El Cid and somehow he fights against 0.67

00:25:48.080 everyone including the African Muslims who were I think Raymond Ibrahim says they were what ISIS 0.52

00:25:54.160 aspires to be that's how brutal they were yeah as somehow El Cid fights his entire life he 1.00

00:26:00.660 He wipes them off of pretty much off of the Iberian Peninsula. 0.99

00:26:05.480 And it could be said at the end of El Cid's life, in all the battles he fought against the Muslims, the most brutal of all Muslims, he never lost a single battle. 0.96

00:26:15.200 Wow. 0.95

00:26:15.720 And the Muslim, one of the Muslim emirs said, he said, I hate the guy. 1.00

00:26:20.700 He's a tyrant. 0.89

00:26:21.900 But he said of El Cid, of all the precious gifts given to men from the Almighty, El Cid perhaps might be one of the greatest. 0.71

00:26:30.660 And that's from his enemy. 0.97

00:26:32.800 So check that out on the day's fault.

00:26:34.820 You can get that on Patreon only.

00:26:37.860 El Cid, we've also recently done Richard the Lionheart.

00:26:40.580 So we're going to go into more depth on a lot of these stories where you simply don't

00:26:43.980 have time to do everything in the main show.

00:26:45.660 Yeah.

00:26:46.020 But Brian, I think you're right.

00:26:47.120 It's stuff like that where it inspires you and you can look at your own condition and

00:26:50.800 you say, yeah, we're beat back and we're outnumbered and the odds are stacked against

00:26:55.080 us.

00:26:55.580 But there's something in the heart and soul of man that will resonate with that, that

00:26:59.540 pitch of masculinity by the way there's a quote in that episode which maybe one of the greatest

00:27:04.560 quotes of all time uh another emir said of el sid he was a hard man no way like did he really

00:27:11.960 his words wow not even a twinkle in his eye just his words it's the hard man podcast he definitely

00:27:19.360 sung it he did not say it that's what he's definitely in english uh gentlemen i want to

00:27:25.260 ask you just kind of a preliminary question you know we've read about Antioch and Nicaea and

00:27:31.900 really there's fighting and it's impressive all the fighting but the amount of suffering that

00:27:37.140 these guys had to endure the miles that they had to slog last episode we talked about you know was

00:27:42.000 like they basically lost a person every 35 miles or something um this was not an easy journey and

00:27:47.840 35 people per mile yeah wow that's right 35 that's a big difference and that's a lot of people

00:27:54.180 That's a lot of people.

00:27:55.440 So, you know, you get into these major battles and they're much depleted by the time you get to Jerusalem, as we'll read about in just a minute, you know, just a couple thousand people.

00:28:04.860 It's not like hundreds of thousands by the end.

00:28:07.840 That's what starts.

00:28:08.880 So I just want to ask you just the general tenor of these kind of men.

00:28:12.900 What kind of impression does that make on you when you realize, you know, starvation, thirst, disease?

00:28:18.560 this is really like much soldiering not actually a lot of glory most of the time it's it's brutal

00:28:26.360 it shows the the absurdity of the modern revisionist narrative the we hate christians

00:28:33.580 revisionist narrative that these were just men who were bent on going and getting lands and wealth

00:28:39.020 and riches and and you know renown and all this stuff i mean come on these guys largely left

00:28:46.680 behind wealth and security and they all they had all the glory they wanted like these guys were

00:28:52.100 the lords of the earth in their land they were the cultural elite they had the respect and honor

00:28:57.700 of their nations and they were like the the way that we look at the navy seals or special for i

00:29:04.180 mean plus nobility and they left that behind and they were willing to slog through the the haunt

00:29:11.080 of jackals in the waterless places and unto death.

00:29:16.340 Why?

00:29:17.800 Well, because of Christendom, because they wanted, they had heard of the suffering of 0.97

00:29:22.300 their brothers and sisters under Muslim conquest because they understood the danger. 0.94

00:29:26.980 And so one of the first things it does for me is it just says, what a fifth commandment

00:29:32.160 violation for us to look back on them and think and slander them as money

00:29:39.500 grubbers absurd yeah yeah one of the things that we'll see after our second

00:29:45.520 story in this episode is that after their subsequent victory that a lot of

00:29:50.360 the men just went home yeah so so this idea that they were there for wealth and

00:29:54.400 lands and everything really was like no treasure I mean no you know we're broke

00:29:58.980 the templars were you know we'll get there two of my favorite stories by the way you have a norman 0.99

00:30:05.800 punching a muslim horse in the face and killing it and killing the horse and then saying give me

00:30:10.540 another horse and send this one back uh so that's a great story one of the other things that's really 0.99

00:30:14.960 interesting i found was that crossbows had been i think the pope had made them illegal you were

00:30:21.980 not supposed to use them in warfare on the mainland of europe christians among christians

00:30:26.840 fighting each other but then when the crusades break out they're like crossbows allowed now

00:30:32.360 well because a crossbow a soldier could train and be proficient in firing arrow after arrow in like

00:30:38.200 two weeks versus these longbow men they had to train for months and years yeah right they had

00:30:44.100 extraordinary strength to pull back these huge bows and so they were the the nobility pretty 0.59

00:30:51.260 much ruled through this technological warfare the crossbows basically brought the peasant masses

00:30:57.060 into war and it was blurring the distinction between the nobility and the peasants and so

00:31:03.300 they were like no crossbows i'm sorry it's actually funny to me dan because in the bow

00:31:07.440 hunting world today not even the crossbows are i mean vertical and horizontal bow people like

00:31:12.520 there is a lot of hatred sometimes it's the same thing i mean can you imagine yeah longbow people

00:31:18.520 are all the purists oh yeah compound bow and then when you bring a crossbow they're like

00:31:22.640 it brings the dirty masses into hunting yeah it's like this equal thing dan no comments on that from 0.99

00:31:28.820 the the resident hunter i just i think you just kill all the deer you just kill them all kill as 0.99

00:31:34.460 many as it's out there with a gatling gun from a helicopter dan no they're not that bad i mean and 1.00

00:31:40.120 you eat them we don't eat muslims please tell me we're not gonna eat any muslims actually i have 0.99

00:31:45.120 to know i have to throw this out uh part of the elsa story like it's a long episode yeah i know 0.99

00:31:50.820 i want to hear it there's there's plenty of stuff for people to be you know to wet their appetite

00:31:54.740 but one of the kind of wet your appetite is i hope it's not eating muslims and wet wetting 0.99

00:31:59.880 your appetite it's actually that the muslims may have been eating christians they were eating

00:32:03.720 christians yes i am familiar with that legit so yeah definitely uh another plug there um one of

00:32:10.500 the other things brian i want to ask you uh as our sort of resident expert on the miraculous the

00:32:15.400 answer is yes the supernatural paranormal um i think this is tied together with this story that

00:32:22.020 we get from saint george and i just want to ask you if we should reject this or accept this before

00:32:28.580 you answer and this is part of a bigger discussion i think we're not only trying to re-enchant or to

00:32:34.740 break the magic the dark magic enchantment that's over our history in the west but part of what is

00:32:40.720 tied to is this other project we have with haunted cosmos which is every single one of the men in this

00:32:45.840 era on the christian side believed in a supernatural world yes they believed in what we would call

00:32:51.940 quote-unquote paranormal so why do you think that's so important that we we talk about that

00:32:56.540 do you think this is real how do you read something like saint george coming to fight for his people

00:33:02.420 which everybody there they were like no that happened even yeah i think even you know the

00:33:07.240 muslims were like i'd they had help well because the battle was like there's no way they should

00:33:12.040 have won humanly speaking when you understand like yeah losing 35 people the state they were in

00:33:18.440 when they got to fighting i mean i can't imagine fighting with uh like a hundred pounds of armor

00:33:27.140 on horseback hand-to-hand combat haven't eaten in months really being fully healthy let alone

00:33:34.660 if you were starving to death uh you know on the verge of physical collapse you're eating boots

00:33:41.960 and drinking horse blood yeah and outnumbered by people who are on their home turf and then going

00:33:48.600 and winning well and also like so they lay siege they take the city then they become the besieged

00:33:56.160 and 30,000 freshly.

00:33:59.200 Yeah.

00:33:59.640 Like they're fresh.

00:34:01.340 Reinforcements show up and you beat them.

00:34:03.380 And they charge out of the city, right?

00:34:05.040 Yeah.

00:34:05.220 And they charge because they realize they're like, well, yeah, they weren't going to go

00:34:08.560 through another siege.

00:34:09.740 They're just going to die within weeks if they try to hold the city that's siege to be

00:34:15.440 sieged.

00:34:16.100 So, yeah.

00:34:16.840 And then they all say, I mean, yeah, then there was an angelic host led by St. George,

00:34:22.140 you know, the dragon killer.

00:34:23.400 And, you know, they brought us victory.

00:34:25.700 I think it's also interesting because like in 844 in Spain, they also had St. James. They called him St. James the Moorslayer. And the reason was that we're like, there was a battle where again, you have chroniclers who reported this, but they were like, yeah, St. James showed up on a white charger and was slaughtering Muslims left and right in this epic battle.

00:34:49.260 and so the question is what do you do with this i mean i yeah i think even me my my sensibility as

00:34:57.380 a modern is i read that and go well of course that's i mean it's hey hey geography and there's

00:35:02.140 all this like embellishment and they were really prone to just looking for angelic or heavenly

00:35:07.880 signs to validate their victory because you have to understand that in this time this was one of

00:35:12.240 the reasons that constantine probably didn't come out as fully christian like fully supporting

00:35:18.620 Christian calling the council Nicaea until he had, uh, one significant military victories

00:35:25.120 because military victories in that time for a leader was what showed people that you were

00:35:30.840 the legitimate ruler because you had the divine, uh, ascent that winning battles was what showed

00:35:37.860 via the divine powers that you were the correct ruler. So, uh, Constantine had just won significant

00:35:45.100 military victories in the 320s. And then he kind of came, he had the political power at that point

00:35:49.820 to come out fully as a Christian. So there's, there are dynamics like that at play to where

00:35:55.020 certainly like, can, can we look back and see that there are clear moments in history where

00:36:01.260 people fabricate, or at least they have a really strong motive that we can see for why they would

00:36:06.920 say like, Oh no, God, God is the one who validated me via this victory. But when I look at some of

00:36:12.840 these stories in the Crusades, I don't see the same type of motives at play, right? You think

00:36:20.240 about like they had just won this stunning victory. The temptation in my mind would be more,

00:36:26.920 look how great we are. We were the strongest, we're the best, we're the baddest. Look,

00:36:31.620 we were starving and we still beat these Muslims. Look how great our armies are. And instead they 1.00

00:36:37.380 all said, no, God supernaturally came and we would have lost. We had no hope, but God fought for us.

00:36:45.640 And I think before we too quickly dismiss these stories as fabrications, we have to say, hang on.

00:36:52.180 Well, I mean, is that, is there anything in scripture that would forbid us from saying that

00:36:55.780 could happen? Well, no. Is there anything in scripture that might lead us to say that that's

00:36:59.840 a thing that does happen? Well, yeah, that happens in the Bible, like where God shows up.

00:37:06.520 And for example, strikes, you know, tens of thousands of soldiers blind and then sends them home or when armies are seen in the heavens for those with eyes to see fighting on behalf of God's people.

00:37:17.680 So to me, it would make perfect sense that this would be something that would be with the grain of God's character to do.

00:37:26.300 and so I'm not prone to assume that my forefathers were liars

00:37:32.060 and I have no biblical reason to reject it as a possibility

00:37:37.200 and in fact have biblical reason to say

00:37:38.880 that's more the kind of world that we live in

00:37:41.860 than this default materialist world

00:37:45.500 where everything's just atoms moving.

00:37:48.280 So what I'm saying is 100% St. George led the angelic hosts 0.99

00:37:52.260 to the Muslims. 1.00

00:37:52.440 I was going to say, in the words of Ben Garrett, we've confirmed

00:37:55.740 confirmed that it happened. Dan, I want to get your take on this. Do you read this and you say,

00:38:02.280 I think St. George was there. St. George is made up. We shouldn't believe in silly little myths.

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00:42:47.820 st george was made up i'm just i'm trying to you know i'm trying to prime the pump i know i know

00:42:58.240 you're trying to make me mad actually if you recall from our interview with dr ben merkel

00:43:01.620 i had brought up uh that right next to white horse hill where alfred fought yeah uh at the

00:43:07.660 battle of ashdown the adjacent hill is called dragon mound or dragon hill i think is what it's

00:43:15.300 called whereas reported that that's where the dragon laid that saint george had killed and it

00:43:21.680 was so large it left a mountain anyway so uh what do i think about this yeah it's interesting as i

00:43:29.080 read these stories because you'll see this a couple of times like you had mentioned in the

00:43:32.280 crusades where you have some supernatural event happen where there is somebody fighting alongside

00:43:37.560 them or they find like the spear that was thrust into the side of christ while he was on the cross

00:43:43.360 uh things like that and it is difficult especially as a protestant by the way to look at icons and

00:43:50.460 relics and things like that and immediately your knee-jerk reaction is none of that absolutely

00:43:55.680 none of that as a protestant but like brian had said if you actually just think in biblical

00:44:02.520 categories what would prevent god from sending even if it wasn't saint george but sending like

00:44:09.040 a terrible angel of death yeah to fight with them what prevents that from happening is there

00:44:16.520 something in the new covenant that says that got where God says like, Oh, by the way, I'm actually

00:44:21.420 not going to intervene anymore. You now have the Holy spirit. And so you're enough. Like, you know,

00:44:27.300 God never says something like that. And, and so if we believe our Bible, then you have to come to

00:44:34.240 some conclusion. Like if these men were not lying, which like Brian said, I think there's compelling

00:44:39.640 reason through their motives because there wasn't a man who was trying to ascend to become a

00:44:45.740 legitimate king or something like that. They were beleaguered and there's no reason that they should

00:44:51.020 have been able to win. And they say that there was some supernatural event in the form of St.

00:44:55.860 George, who was killing the Mohammedans. I mean, I don't have any reason to not believe them. And 1.00

00:45:02.500 in fact, there is probably a part of all of us that we have to be a little bit careful of,

00:45:07.080 but I want to believe it. Yeah, sure. And there is a biblical theological arc that I think is

00:45:13.120 important to understand when it comes to the angelic and the human in the arc of redemptive

00:45:18.740 history. And that's that it's always true. It's always true. Eric took the words right 0.99

00:45:22.740 out of my mouth. Well, it is the arc that man in Christ is going to be made higher than

00:45:29.760 the angels. Yeah. And so angels are superintendents and they are used by God, particularly in

00:45:36.860 the old covenant aeon in ways that as as man matures, he grows into his own and eventually

00:45:44.360 becomes the one who judges angels. So there is this you see it in Lord of the Rings, actually,

00:45:52.520 with Gandalf. Gandalf is a Maya. He is essentially like for to put it very ham fistedly. He's kind 1.00

00:45:58.680 of like an angelic being who's given embodied form in Middle Earth to perform certain tasks. 0.98

00:46:03.940 There's limitations on his power until he's reincarnated after his fight with the Balrog. 0.85

00:46:10.040 And then those limitations are largely removed. 0.88

00:46:12.660 So he comes back and he's kind of like an angelic figure who leads the men and the hobbits,

00:46:18.760 but he leads them into full maturity until they can rule.

00:46:23.280 And then he says, my time has passed.

00:46:25.380 His goal wasn't to enthrone himself as angelic powers over the men.

00:46:30.380 In fact, that's what you see with demons ruling over the nations prior to Christ's defeat

00:46:36.740 of the powers on the cross.

00:46:38.700 And now we see the powers fleeing.

00:46:41.620 However, I do.

00:46:42.760 So there's an arc where man, we should expect through history for man in Christ in his maturity

00:46:48.160 to end up taking governing roles in God's world that are the roles of maturity where

00:46:54.760 they don't need angelic hosts oversight in the same way kind of thing however it would make sense

00:47:02.340 to me in that narrative when you would see the powers fighting like where a nation that is ruled

00:47:08.860 over by demon gods and the cross is advancing that it you would see the battle of a cosmic

00:47:16.600 nature along with the battle of flesh and blood and so to me it would be consistent even with

00:47:23.860 that narrative arc. Again, I don't know, but to see that there are spiritual battles happening

00:47:29.640 behind thrones and dominions and powers with the advance of Christianity to go and claim a

00:47:36.460 idolatrous land ruled by a demon god. So, I mean, so who's to say? I think that all plays into how

00:47:44.260 we view these stories. And what we need to do is retrain our mind. This is one of the projects of

00:47:48.660 haunted cosmos and of the King's hall is that we're retraining our minds to stop thinking the

00:47:54.400 way that those globalist, um, utopian elites have tried to train us to think, which is anti

00:48:02.480 supernaturalist and anti Christian. And instead we need to train our minds to think truly

00:48:08.840 supernaturally Christianly and Christianly in all things. So to me, I'm like, I look at it and go,

00:48:14.440 why not you know it doesn't make sense because as you read through a lot of these a lot of the

00:48:20.340 literature about the crusades we often conflate time periods you know so so the crusades happened

00:48:27.640 over a very large span of time and so as you read the narratives the number of people across a large

00:48:34.660 span of time that mention the muslims being like demons or calling them demons yeah and i think in 0.71

00:48:42.460 some ways justly because what they're identifying is that no human being could act the way that 0.88

00:48:48.740 some of the muslims were acting and some of the deeds that they had done were subhuman in nature 0.95

00:48:55.220 yeah and i so i think i think you're right what we're seeing is is almost like closer to the 0.98

00:49:01.500 surface of the material world the supernatural is bleeding over or like spilling over into a

00:49:09.040 lot of these events so it shouldn't surprise us that we see saint george that's what i think yeah

00:49:14.460 no i think that's great uh one of the other things brian you mentioned earlier that i just want to

00:49:17.860 touch upon real quick is uh that when guys are victorious when you have a bohemond it it plays

00:49:25.600 into why he's validated as a leader yeah now obviously some of these guys would look to you

00:49:30.940 know a divine uh you know divine right of kings or that that god had ordained it i might agree

00:49:36.240 with them in many cases there um but dan this this kind of idea that you know even in our time

00:49:43.680 period that you have to be successful in battles you have to win battles to win the hearts of men

00:49:49.900 um can you think of any modern examples of this i guess and then like why is that so important

00:49:54.480 do you agree with it man brian do you have any examples off the top of your head we're nodding

00:49:59.480 your head yeah i mean that is actually i did not connect those dots i'm glad you did because this

00:50:04.360 is there is an element of this was true in pagan uh what a pagan is the wrong word i mean colloquially

00:50:11.160 it was the classic mythology of rome that they would appeal to their gods and their gods would

00:50:18.840 give them victory and that would validate a king so there's elements of idolatry there but it's

00:50:23.580 it's as as usual it's latching on to something true which is that um we ought to follow courage

00:50:30.780 and proven metal and success in leadership in fighting the right battles. So today you see

00:50:38.180 this in, this is a very, it seems like a silly example when you compare it to like the Muslims 0.99

00:50:43.140 ruling over the East in Antioch and freeing people from the rape, rapine and murderous 0.98

00:50:49.460 rule of Muslims. Like, so I get that. But when you look at some of the battles that are fought 1.00

00:50:54.320 today in the fronts of the, the fight in Christendom, their battles over things like

00:51:00.860 anthropology and, um, the, the correct Christian view of human sexuality against the enslaving

00:51:08.360 demonic, uh, ideologies of transgenderism and, um, uh, homosexuality and, uh, gender

00:51:17.540 sex roles.

00:51:18.440 What, what is a man? 0.99

00:51:19.240 What is a woman? 1.00

00:51:19.740 What are they for? 0.78

00:51:20.380 And I think what you'll see more and more is that people will follow courage in these battles where it's one of the reasons we are the way that we are.

00:51:31.720 Like even though a lot of people hate us genuinely because of it, it's why we're going to stand

00:51:36.680 up and fight on the battlefront of something like Christian patriarchy the way that we

00:51:43.660 do is because we really believe that even though some of these are minority views, that

00:51:47.460 they are not only correct views, but they are essential areas of attack by the demonic

00:51:54.200 false gods of the day.

00:51:55.480 They're not doing it via swords, yet they're doing it via mind virus discipleship.

00:52:03.780 And so what we need to do is say, no, we need to courageously stand here, win that battle. 0.73

00:52:08.460 And what's happening is that the men even of the previous generation or two in Christianity

00:52:14.040 that were leaders have not stood strong on these fronts and they have given way and their

00:52:20.800 institutions have been conquered by woke ism and other sexual perversions or softness on sex roles

00:52:27.000 or things like this. And so what they're what they're in the process of doing is losing the

00:52:31.480 hearts of young Christian men and women coming up in the next generations who look at them and say

00:52:38.660 in the exact places where you needed to be courageous, you were soft and political and

00:52:44.320 and your institutions are cooked. And so what's funny is that God will then raise up some of the

00:52:50.740 time in situations like this, um, leaders that are kind of like funny in the sense that we've

00:52:57.060 led in some of these conversations or we've had parts, parts to play in some of these conversations

00:53:02.580 from Ogden. And who are we? Some we're like, there's, there's nothing about Ogden that you

00:53:12.540 should look to and say, we joke that we finally have a pastoral candidate with an MDiv like now

00:53:17.760 for the first time. And so why do people listen to the King's Hall? I hope it's because we were

00:53:26.100 courageous in some of these battles that were the correct battles and unwilling to be political or

00:53:31.540 soft on some of those battles. Yeah. And sometimes I look at it and I think sometimes it's a Twitter

00:53:35.560 battle. And I know that a lot of people will say, oh, that's that's really dumb. But I think in our 0.99

00:53:40.760 day, it's not when you go into the public sphere and you defend female modesty and you get attacked

00:53:46.620 by adidas uk and you get attacked by everybody in the world and you stand your ground and you

00:53:51.440 defend your principles i think in some ways like that can be that can feel like winning a battle

00:53:57.400 i think when you you build a community and it thrives that is winning a battle i think when you

00:54:04.000 faithfully uh go through changes in the church as you guys have and you lead your people and you

00:54:10.120 faithfully discipline sin and you hold strong even though people hate you and leave i think

00:54:16.300 those are battles won. And then you get to a point where more people will say, okay, I'm willing to

00:54:23.000 follow you because you fought your battles and you won your battles. I love this in Judges chapter

00:54:28.100 11. The elders of Gilead, this is after Gideon, the elders of Gilead, they come to Jephthah and

00:54:33.780 they say, we want you to be the head over us. We want you to lead. And Jephthah said to the elders

00:54:39.060 of Gilead, this is Judges 11 verse nine. If you bring me home again to fight against the Ammonites 1.00

00:54:45.080 and the Lord gives them over to me, then I will be your head. 1.00

00:54:48.960 And I think this is that principle of if you win battles, then, you know, there is, as

00:54:56.540 Brian said, there's some sense of validation from the Lord, but also that if you really

00:55:02.440 want people to follow you, I mean, this is kind of like the guy, like say, say we have

00:55:06.260 a business podcast and we say, oh, follow us for all these great tips.

00:55:09.720 And we're like, oh, where's your business?

00:55:12.040 We don't have one.

00:55:12.840 but yeah do you have any um success that you could show us or like people would be right not

00:55:18.020 to listen and and people the the ancient mind was right on a level to think like that there's a level

00:55:26.120 where you can become superstitious yeah and idolatrous and in in a similar era to the

00:55:32.240 prosperity gospel because we have righteous men who suffered and and suffered defeat and setback

00:55:38.100 And it wasn't one-to-one because God hadn't appointed them as a leader.

00:55:42.860 However, it's right often for civilizations and a people in a church or a family to introspect,

00:55:48.860 to look and before God say, we're suffering defeat here.

00:55:52.780 Is there sin in the camp?

00:55:54.660 Is there something that we're putting ourselves out of the way of God's blessing?

00:55:59.640 When he tells us, do you want to be out of the way of my blessing?

00:56:02.520 Well, then sin in these ways.

00:56:04.420 Okay, do you want to be in the way of my blessing?

00:56:06.380 then in faith obey my commands like it and and we're so quick to boil these things down to

00:56:13.720 superstition and legalism that sometimes we don't properly weigh god's covenantal judging and

00:56:21.560 blessing that he's still doing it across all sorts of domains he's still doing that because

00:56:28.220 his nature didn't change yeah and i think about the american church and you're like okay why have

00:56:32.280 we've been so culturally irrelevant. You ought to go back to your knees in prayer and you ought to

00:56:38.180 plead with the Lord and say, Lord, why? Well, and people say, well, hang on. That's just,

00:56:42.740 that's just legalism. We're in Christ. Christ won all the blessings and took all of the curse. So

00:56:46.820 that, that dynamic was prototypical. It was a shadow that's been fulfilled in Christ. And I say,

00:56:51.400 not so fast, read revelation because Christ is the one who walks among the lampstands of the

00:56:57.300 churches. And he's the one who still pronounces post-resurrection, post-enthronement. He pronounces

00:57:04.520 his blessing and curse for obedience and disobedience upon the churches in Thyatira

00:57:09.800 and in, you know, in these various regions of the church. He's still doing that. 0.94

00:57:14.780 Well, it's interesting too, just to point out in Revelation, then Dan, I promise it will get to

00:57:18.920 you. Dan keeps trying to talk and it's just me. I love this. You were talking about angels before

00:57:23.880 and John is given the revelation.

00:57:27.160 He says, tell the angel of the church.

00:57:29.280 Yeah.

00:57:30.020 And so you could even think in a modern sense 0.74

00:57:32.020 that like the Moscow's and the Ogden's of the world

00:57:35.200 and the Batavia's have an angel of oversight for the church.

00:57:40.900 I mean, this is in the New Testament.

00:57:43.180 It's in revelation.

00:57:43.980 It's not like a crazy idea.

00:57:46.040 Yeah.

00:57:46.200 And then people go, well, is that a,

00:57:47.620 is that the minister or is it an angelic being?

00:57:49.820 And I say, see our previous discussion

00:57:51.800 about the biblical theology of the rule of man and angels and and there's a case to be made in

00:57:56.700 both directions but certainly god's angels are involved i just know that our angel has been

00:58:03.160 disappointed he's so many times looking at us going dopes are you serious again again he's he's

00:58:10.360 he's like i'm out here fighting day after day i'm keeping the demons back you got the mormon

00:58:15.700 demons they're they're tough demons and then you guys go do that you tweet that he's like looking

00:58:22.360 at his phone going lord give me patience with these people yeah so i just want to pull on that

00:58:27.580 thread that you had mentioned about uh winning battles and ascending to leadership and because

00:58:33.080 of courage and things like that you know and i think you can you can definitely see some modern

00:58:37.360 examples i think george washington is actually a good example of that you know fighting the british

00:58:42.640 and everything like that and he was he should have been he was actually continue yeah i agree

00:58:46.900 i agree and then you even have bad examples like george w bush who his popularity after the contrived

00:58:53.680 9-11 attacks and everything like that were was i not supposed to say that i thought this was just

00:58:58.840 generally accepted at this point it is among us and then and then does not even though it has the

00:59:04.340 appearance of courage does not lead with courage and and actually you can see this best i think it

00:59:10.800 in smaller spheres like the church to where you have examples.

00:59:15.900 We can,

00:59:16.540 we've talked about them in season one of the King's hall where you have men

00:59:20.320 who start out courageously.

00:59:21.700 And I think this is where temptations lie for people like us,

00:59:24.460 you know,

00:59:25.900 in similar ways,

00:59:26.900 as you look at the crusades,

00:59:28.340 a story that we just told in Antioch,

00:59:29.960 the guys are starving.

00:59:30.760 There's like,

00:59:31.580 well,

00:59:31.800 what are they,

00:59:32.280 what are they going to do?

00:59:32.840 They have to fight or they're going to die.

00:59:34.160 There's really not a lot to lose.

00:59:35.780 Yeah.

00:59:35.940 Same thing for,

00:59:36.860 for men in our situation.

00:59:38.760 And a lot of ministers that have pastors that have gained a larger platform in the past is

00:59:44.320 like, what did they have to lose?

00:59:45.420 They had a small church and they just, they fought the battles that they needed to fight

00:59:49.660 and they did it courageously.

00:59:50.680 And, and then all of a sudden they gathered themselves a larger church and larger influence

00:59:55.800 and larger platforms.

00:59:57.820 And where does the temptation lie?

00:59:59.460 Well, it's to rest on your laurels.

01:00:01.220 And this is where I think you get a lot of the older men who are like, well, you know,

01:00:05.100 yeah, you think you guys are courageous. 0.96

01:00:06.440 You know, all of you young bucks, all of you zoomers out there that are meme posting and 0.99

01:00:10.220 stuff like that.

01:00:11.180 But I've been fighting this battle since the 1970s.

01:00:14.380 You know, I've been fighting this in the eighties.

01:00:16.240 Were you around for this?

01:00:17.600 And, and the answer rightly from a lot of the younger men is like, well, yeah, but where

01:00:22.000 are you today?

01:00:23.480 Where are you today?

01:00:24.100 Because the fire and the courage that won you, the hearts of men, you have since abandoned

01:00:29.020 for comfort and for ease, and you're now resting on your laurels.

01:00:33.160 So you once were a great warrior of the faith and have sense you have retired, but you're

01:00:38.700 still filling the position of a courageous man and you're just pretending you're a poser.

01:00:43.400 And so I think that is definitely a temptation, not just in, in history for Kings and, but

01:00:49.180 also for, for men that are in any area of authority, including fathers.

01:00:54.160 I think it's especially true for fathers as well.

01:00:56.640 It's in some ways it's easy because your decisions are very limited when you have a

01:01:02.100 young family and you have an early career and courage doesn't cost as much.

01:01:06.800 But what happens when you have a 401k that's rather large and you have, you know, a high

01:01:13.220 position at a company, you know, and you're known in these circles and courage, you know,

01:01:20.660 comes knocking and says, are you going to actually embrace me or are you going to reject

01:01:24.760 me?

01:01:25.120 We saw this in 2020, 2021 with masks and vaccines and all that, you know, and it was a really

01:01:31.260 good apocalypse and unveiling of who is going to be courageous and stand the test. But the thing

01:01:36.600 is, that was just, that was like training wheels, right? That was the first, first of many to come

01:01:42.100 as things continue to devolve in our culture and in, in, in Western, in the Western world with 0.98

01:01:48.080 immigration and all of the things that are posing threats against us is that that was like the first 0.82

01:01:52.500 test here. Let's, let's, let's see how you measure and then we'll, we'll do the training 1.00

01:01:56.980 and the things that are going to be hard will come and so i think that this for all men in all

01:02:02.460 areas of authority is to not rest on your laurels of times that you were courageous don't be like

01:02:07.920 the overweight 40 year old guy that's still living his high school you know state championship

01:02:12.800 football team days and that was a good season though it was a good season i could throw that

01:02:18.360 ball over the mountain over yeah yeah but i mean it's a joke because it's actually it's true people

01:02:23.700 do it and people do it so it's just a temptation for everyone yeah i also think for just very

01:02:28.560 practical for you know guy in the pew blue collar guy when you think about courage sometimes courage

01:02:34.040 is saying to your daughter you're not going to wear that sometimes it's saying to your daughter

01:02:37.880 yeah we're actually not gonna buy the new taylor swift album and i know people think this is crazy

01:02:43.360 but it's like for a lot of men who even listen to the show like to say something to their wife

01:02:47.880 or daughter about something like that would cause a problem totally and so i think being courageous

01:02:53.920 even in the little things uh gentlemen i want to kind of transition to a question i have about the

01:02:59.800 crusades for you i read these and i think this seems a little old testament uh they seem a little

01:03:05.780 barbaric the crusaders were cutting off heads maybe karen armstrong was right that jesus was

01:03:11.940 a pacifist. He was more like Gandhi. And these guys were, man, just brutal. So Brian, let's

01:03:18.920 start with you. They didn't have a Geneva convention back then. How do we understand

01:03:24.160 this type of warfare and not be limperist, effeminate moderns like so many people are?

01:03:31.800 Yeah. So the thing about warfare is that you win by killing the other people. 0.97

01:03:36.300 One more time. You win wars by killing people. 0.99

01:03:39.560 Oh, interesting. That's or terrifying them into not wanting to kill you anymore. 0.99

01:03:44.940 That's like a John Madden answer. The way you win a football game score by scoring more points in the other than the other team.

01:03:50.380 You just have to kill more people. But you go, you look at this is this is a difficult question. 0.84

01:03:55.300 It's one that's actually been wrestled with throughout the ages of Christian theology, politics, culture by such men as Augustine and just war theory.

01:04:06.080 And all the way through to the Civil War, you can look at the disagreements that Christian men had. Stonewall Jackson, his initial instinct and conviction as he was a teacher at a military college and looking at this impending war, he said the only way for the South to win is a black flag war where we storm the North and we raise and burn and destroy until they lose their political will to fight and capitulate quickly.

01:04:35.380 And we win fast because he understood that they had far more manufacturing ability.

01:04:40.400 They had more population.

01:04:41.860 They had all sorts of advantages strategically.

01:04:44.920 So the only advantage that he could reach for militarily, if you're going to fight a war, was to black flag it, to raise the Jolly Roger and go.

01:04:53.740 And you can you can debate with with Stonewall Jackson about that. 0.75

01:04:57.780 But but he was probably right in that that was the only way the South could have won. 0.98

01:05:02.580 And it was merciful. 0.76

01:05:03.400 It was also in his view, merciful. He would, he would make that argument that would have saved

01:05:08.120 lives. I'm not trying to kill as many people as possible. I'm actually trying to end a war as

01:05:11.740 quickly and expeditiously as possible. So there, there are tensions that get into the, and this is

01:05:17.680 why good Christians are going to disagree about some of these questions. There are legitimate

01:05:21.320 tensions in wisdom with respect to one principle ramming into another principle. So you're going,

01:05:28.460 And there's the sheer pragmatism of waging a war when you go, if you want to win, you must fight like this, just humanly speaking. And some people are going to land more on the side of that sort of persuasion. They're going to say, no, militarily, I know that you might not have the stomach or political will for a war like this.

01:05:50.140 but so a don't fight wars if you don't have to because this is what wars are like

01:05:54.580 make sure you're waging just wars but b if you want to win this is how you're going to have to

01:06:00.100 do it on the other hand i think you also have um you do have men who argue convictionally

01:06:06.520 from a more covenantal supernatural view where they say no we have to fight christianly and that

01:06:13.220 means that we have to abide by black flag war is out. We're not allowed to do what the nations do

01:06:21.800 when they, when they wage war. Um, and I think the truth is going to take elements of both of those

01:06:28.140 for sure. And I'm not trying to be limp wristed middle of the road, but genuinely speaking,

01:06:33.720 Christians ought not to wage war via rape. We shouldn't be sending soldiers out. The Christian 0.77

01:06:39.800 forces. Yeah, go terrorize them by raping all their women. That's what the nations do. That's 1.00

01:06:43.960 how war has been fought from the beginning. Christians shouldn't do that. So there are 1.00

01:06:48.040 going to be lines that are going to fall more on that. We must please the Lord in how we fight as

01:06:54.060 well, lest he give us over to our enemies. That's absolutely part of it. And then there's also the

01:06:59.620 part though, where in terms of political will and stomach, where you're killing people, that is what

01:07:04.040 war is it's killing people so you can't kill people like nicely right and i think because

01:07:11.280 of modern warfare and our we've become accustomed to to a degree where there is so much distance

01:07:17.100 between right men that are at battle that it is uncomfortable when you're like no this guy

01:07:21.420 had a cudgel i mean like it's a big club and his brains out beat his brains out yeah or they would

01:07:27.240 hack limbs off or whatever it is. It is gruesome and it's, it's face to face. And I, I've obviously 0.94

01:07:34.520 have never been in that position where you're, you're doing hand to hand combat with, with edged

01:07:40.100 and blunt weapons of that nature. But I can't imagine what it does to a man when the, like the

01:07:47.340 blood fury is, is on you. And it's, it's different because of the distance in which, which we now

01:07:53.060 fight our wars and so it seems cleaner is my point yeah it seems like a cleaner war when you

01:07:58.560 shoot someone or when you drop a bomb it's not it's not actually it's not you just don't see it

01:08:03.000 exactly i think there was something uh in this time period too that they so there was an honor

01:08:10.320 in hand-to-hand combat and you were to fight a certain way all that but i i think also rodney

01:08:16.500 stark is really helpful here because he says like you know cutting heads off and throwing them into

01:08:21.520 the city what we do have to give we can't read our history back into it right that was the way

01:08:27.280 that wars were fought and so you again to brian's point you can make arguments uh lots of people

01:08:32.860 augustine and others had just war theory and people were always trying to work this out what's

01:08:38.400 interesting to me is that modern warfare it sort of portrays itself as like more sanitary and then

01:08:46.480 you get to like world war one and two and you're like the barbarism of modern mechanized warfare

01:08:51.780 is so much greater in scale than anything that was happening here oh yeah it's just to your point

01:08:59.260 it's like well you know we just do it away where you don't see it you know like today it's like we

01:09:03.980 don't actually see people being gassed in trenches we could kill but it happened we could kill a

01:09:09.460 hundred million people before sunset today if we wanted yeah america if we had the political will

01:09:16.220 And we decided, well, just nuclear weapons.

01:09:18.580 We could drop some two-stage, multi-stage thermonuclear weapons on anywhere we wanted in the world with some stealth bombers or ICBMs.

01:09:26.440 And we could kill 100 million people in fire.

01:09:29.580 This is actually a really interesting point, though, because Tucker was recently on Joe Rogan.

01:09:33.780 And Tucker was like, are you kidding me?

01:09:35.920 Like, you know, we're going to talk about the Crusades, right?

01:09:38.180 And we're going to be like, oh, that was brutal.

01:09:39.760 We shouldn't have done that.

01:09:40.320 there are americans today who are defending dropping nuclear bombs on civilization on on

01:09:45.660 citizens of japan and tucker's point was he was like are you kidding me i'm not going to defend

01:09:50.980 that he is his point he's like no and you know what's funny is that because you have people on

01:09:54.740 both sides that are actually kind of on our team i would say yeah of the hiroshima nagasaki bombs

01:10:00.060 this is the same um debate in principle by the way about the people who are now saying i couldn't

01:10:06.660 Christians should not vote for Donald Trump, no matter what, even though Biden's the worst

01:10:11.980 president in history, his recent comments on abortion, you can't vote for Donald Trump.

01:10:17.280 So I think what you're seeing here, and they'll say, because that would displease the Lord,

01:10:22.120 and all you're doing is inviting God's judgment. If you actually want to put yourself in the way

01:10:25.480 of God's blessing, you have to fight the war the way that God commands. And so what you're seeing

01:10:30.420 in that debate is the same thing as in these debates it is the question of it's it's the

01:10:38.520 people who are i think what you're seeing is the people who are wired primarily politically versus

01:10:42.520 the people who are wired primarily theologically so you have people operating in different worlds

01:10:47.340 and they're they're each bringing the rules of their world into the the other and they're they're

01:10:52.240 in the political sphere and they're thinking like the theologian or they're in the theologian

01:10:56.600 who's the politician thinking in the theologian's world.

01:11:00.380 And it's actually, I think the first thing you have to say is that

01:11:04.200 these are very difficult questions.

01:11:07.520 And one thing we do know is that if we're going to succeed,

01:11:11.000 we have to have political coalitions amidst people who disagree

01:11:15.400 about some of these finer points in any given application or another.

01:11:20.460 Because otherwise we'll purity spiral until we have the tiniest factions

01:11:25.540 of like, well, what do you, what do you think about the atomic bombs? Well, I was not okay

01:11:30.900 with those. Okay, good. We're not okay with those. But what about the firebombing of Dresden? Okay,

01:11:34.860 well, we're, we're not okay with those, but what about the, the, cause you, it's not just the,

01:11:39.580 the, the nuclear bombs in Japan. We, we've firebombed civilians for five years before that

01:11:46.080 all the allies did in Europe and everywhere. And they did it back. Killing civilians was just a

01:11:52.980 part of, it's the same kind of idea as doing what they did in the crusades. That was the rules of

01:11:58.480 how war was fought. And just because you didn't do it doesn't mean the other guy's not going to do

01:12:03.260 it. So a lot of the time, the question genuinely, which is difficult, is that do we want a war where

01:12:10.260 civilians are being firebombed? Everyone would say no. But what happens when they start firebombing

01:12:15.100 your civilians? What are you going to do? And a lot of people are like, well, we're going to,

01:12:19.700 We're going to raise the Jolly Roger.

01:12:21.940 We're going to go Stonewall Jackson, end this war as quickly as possible, try to save as 0.97

01:12:24.840 many lives as possible, and we're going to go wage a black flag, total war, a hyper 0.97

01:12:30.940 war. 0.97

01:12:31.380 That's what we're going to do. 0.91

01:12:33.060 And I think my point isn't that I know the answers to all these things.

01:12:37.420 My point is that it's genuinely a difficult question.

01:12:42.580 And you have to remember that what we're talking about are issues of where intestinal

01:12:47.880 fortitude is going to be needed because you're you're dealing with horrific horrific effects

01:12:55.360 of sin in the world when you get into these subjects yeah i guess the one thing i would say

01:12:59.900 dan interested to get your thoughts on this but to there's a lot of people on the right there's a

01:13:05.040 lot of conservatives pro-israel conservatives and this would be my sort of thought experiment for

01:13:10.160 you if you are like cheerleading while israel you're calling for israel like ben shapiro did

01:13:16.880 to completely annihilate

01:13:18.880 a people group, whether it's 0.76

01:13:20.820 Hamas or Hezbollah or whoever, or

01:13:22.780 just Palestinians. 0.99

01:13:24.620 You're calling for Israel to 0.92

01:13:26.800 destroy an entire people group 0.72

01:13:28.620 or to nuke Iran or whatever 0.56

01:13:30.800 it is, and you have a problem with

01:13:32.820 the Crusades. Yeah, that's

01:13:34.760 silly. To me, it's like, hold

01:13:36.860 on, let's maybe look at some of our

01:13:38.980 let's look that in the mirror.

01:13:40.960 Well, that's weaponized empathy though, right? Because you're

01:13:42.840 like, oh, you guys were Christians. You say 0.99

01:13:44.960 that you're righteous, you're not supposed

01:13:46.840 to do these things but you did all these things so i'm not for you yep because you didn't live up

01:13:51.740 to your own moral standards misrepresenting our moral standards yeah but i guess i'm saying

01:13:57.920 to to the christians in our camp right yeah yeah just like be willing to evaluate whether or not

01:14:04.520 like don't judge them by a harsher standard than you would have today for yeah evaluate your priors

01:14:09.080 and you're like well yeah but it's god's people israel's right you need to evaluate your prior

01:14:13.420 commitments and make sure that you're being um that you're actually living up to them or you

01:14:19.880 need to reassess whether your prior commitments are correct that's right because you're either 0.93

01:14:23.400 a hypocrite or you're incorrect when real when you're not acting in in a in a compliance with 0.99

01:14:29.660 your own principles you're either hypocrite you're ignorant or you're incorrect and your 1.00

01:14:33.520 principles were wrong in the first place and you're right to have the opinion you do today 0.99

01:14:36.840 and it's your prior commitment that was wrong so one of the i keep coming to this point it's like

01:14:42.700 But it's really difficult, humanly speaking, to think purely objectively about a lot of these things because we don't recognize the way in which our prior commitments and assumptions about the moral landscape are affecting the glasses we're viewing the world in history through.

01:14:59.740 And so, like, you actually have to start by saying, but what do I actually believe about war at all?

01:15:05.320 What do I actually believe about this issue that I mean, because otherwise you're just.

01:15:10.280 you're going into the the the the debate with a bunch of assumptions that you haven't tested

01:15:17.660 or proven and you might find out that you you actually completely change your mind i'm just

01:15:22.440 wondering if we need to do a season on the civil war world war one world war two oh boy absolutely

01:15:27.660 that's like a huge it would only take us like 75 well if we don't get canceled for the crusades

01:15:34.680 yeah i mean come on let's level up we're gonna have to start you can and pill everyone we're

01:15:39.180 gonna have to start mailing people um like cassettes sign up for our cassette distribution

01:15:46.580 because they're new paper newsletters sign up that's great serious well gentlemen we've

01:15:52.520 established a few things we've established a saint george definitely was it the battle

01:15:56.320 uh we've established angels with his angels uh we've established the crusades were 100 justified

01:16:02.140 in every way well also okay it's tongue in cheek um finally i want to establish a boa man was in

01:16:12.040 fact a giant uh again brian we are leaning on you here yeah if you do not give me the thumbs up

01:16:19.140 green light bomond certified giant i will get ben garrett and he will do it look in the words of

01:16:24.320 Anna Komnemna of in her Alexiad of Beaumont his stature was such that he towered almost a full

01:16:32.880 cubit over the tallest man you should actually like I'm tempted to read this whole like 200

01:16:38.800 word description that she made of him because it is like the description every single man since

01:16:45.180 hopes to be he was slender of waist and flanks with broad shoulders and chest strong in the arms

01:16:50.400 overall he was neither too slender

01:16:52.280 nor too heavily built and fleshy

01:16:54.340 but perfectly proportioned

01:16:56.320 one might say that he conformed

01:16:58.200 to the ideal of the polyclitos

01:17:00.600 his hands were large

01:17:02.260 he stood a good firm stance

01:17:03.960 and his neck and back were compact

01:17:06.460 like she thought about this

01:17:08.460 guy clearly

01:17:09.720 his legs were like ivory towers

01:17:11.900 his eyes were light blue

01:17:14.140 and gave some hint of the man's spirit

01:17:16.100 and dignity he breathed

01:17:18.040 freely through nostrils that were broad worthy of his chest nose breathing and a fine outlet for

01:17:23.880 the breath that came in gusts from his lungs this man which was like a greek god is what she's saying

01:17:32.400 her description is so great though it's like she has thought about every feature this is what his

01:17:39.640 deltoids look like she was like obsessed this is like the physiognomy check of of all physiognomy

01:17:46.700 Could you imagine when Beaumont's like, I heard you wrote something about me. 0.92

01:17:49.880 She just like blushes.

01:17:51.280 The Byzantine princess.

01:17:53.420 But it's funny, too, because Alexius like hates Beaumont.

01:17:56.520 Yeah, because well, because the thing is, Alexius was a political schemer.

01:17:59.800 And so when you see a strong leader who's physically perfect with the enormous amount of military strategy, who has the hearts of enormous forces of men marching in to help you.

01:18:09.040 I mean, you might feel a little threatened.

01:18:10.940 it's like when the you're the you know the normal preacher at a church and all of a sudden some

01:18:16.420 absolutely amazing preacher comes in like Brian Salvation no not me someone else comes and

01:18:23.320 preaches and you're like it R.C. Sproul comes and preaches at your church and you kind of feel a

01:18:26.720 little inadequate and you have a little bit of an instinct to like knock him down a few yeah I mean

01:18:31.020 but he smokes so I mean and then everyone's like yeah that makes him better he's ripping heaters

01:18:37.660 He borrowed a Bible to preach from and ripped a half a pack of camels before he went up.

01:18:42.920 You know, times have changed.

01:18:45.160 I mean, there's definitely some like there's some political scheming going on.

01:18:49.620 But but but in all seriousness on Beaumont, like, is it possible that giant blood was still around?

01:18:58.500 I mean, a cubits 18 inches.

01:19:02.200 Well, so he's a foot and a half over the nearest tallest guy.

01:19:05.820 Yeah, he's over six five.

01:19:07.660 Look, I don't know if he was technically a giant, but like that dude was that dude was

01:19:13.960 a physical specimen.

01:19:15.220 He was an outlier.

01:19:16.320 He was way on the right side of the bell curve.

01:19:19.160 I'll put it that way.

01:19:20.020 So, Dan, we have verified that Beaumont was, in fact, giant blood.

01:19:24.040 The I don't think so. 0.99

01:19:25.860 I think it's just from solid bloodlines from the giant Nordic folks from the Nordic because 0.81

01:19:31.160 they were large when you get your I mean, the thing is like the average height of a

01:19:35.680 of a swedish norwegian you know sort of guy is is high interesting especially with good nutrition

01:19:42.580 you give them the amount of protein that that frame requires like dan requires four to five

01:19:47.700 hundred grams of protein per day per meal per meal so that's important let's continue this

01:19:54.420 people will only be mildly disappointed in person there was no malformation from birth the skin all

01:20:00.440 over dan's body was very pale except for his face which was pale but had some color to it

01:20:05.560 his hair was like oh shoot his hair and it did i'm sorry i can no longer read anna's

01:20:14.920 description of you yeah but your beard is luscious thank you luscious beard um if you

01:20:22.140 take a ancestry.com

01:20:23.780 test does it tell you

01:20:26.140 if you're part

01:20:28.080 Nephilim or ad or giant

01:20:30.080 or you know what I don't know but I

01:20:31.940 I'm not going to try because I don't want the feds to have my

01:20:34.040 DNA seriously

01:20:34.880 let's guys I think we can all agree

01:20:37.940 Beaumont was a giant okay yeah

01:20:39.520 and we are going to jump now into

01:20:41.960 another giant of a story yeah

01:20:43.580 really the epic

01:20:45.300 kind of part of Crusades 1

01:20:47.420 which is Jerusalem

01:20:50.060 oh I can I ask one last

01:20:52.100 question sure um one of the things that you hear a lot of is that the crusaders particularly if

01:20:58.020 you're eastern orthodox and i know we have some eastern orthodox listeners so if you have opinions

01:21:02.940 on this definitely love to hear them but one of the the issues is they're like the crusaders like

01:21:09.360 late in a later crusade they you know they wrongly captured constantinople why was how why would they

01:21:15.780 ever do such a thing and rodney stark at least is seems to really paint the picture that alexius

01:21:21.580 and the you know future rulers in constantinople uh were less than honorable toward the crusaders

01:21:29.120 it when you look at those stories like what alexius basically they're gonna lay siege to

01:21:35.040 nicaea he doesn't tell them he sends an entourage and brings the the guy in the city back to

01:21:40.840 constantinople and then they sort of capitulate but um do you i guess where do you guys land on

01:21:47.840 that do you see problems with Alexius yes and kind of reasons why there would be you know animosity

01:21:53.820 yeah I don't want to overplay it but I do think that one of the big takeaways from the crusades

01:22:00.060 in general in this period of time in general is the the way that intramural fighting saps the

01:22:08.040 strength of Christianity against external foes that's a theme that you're going to see throughout

01:22:14.040 these stories because it's a human theme people are not perfect movements are not perfect there's

01:22:18.660 disagreement there's um it's one of the the things we're hoping to address in some ways at our

01:22:24.280 upcoming conference uh in june the new christendom conference um building christian boroughs how this

01:22:31.680 i'm hoping to ask the panels panelists this how do we maintain coalitions across disagreement

01:22:36.940 with different boroughs that are governed according to different principles and ideas

01:22:42.260 because this in in fighting amongst people who you look at it and go who do you want to be in

01:22:48.620 charge you could say this to the byzantines and the westerners the muslims or the other guy 0.56

01:22:55.240 right like even if even if i lost some of my what i wanted would i rather be ruled by the muslims 0.89

01:23:02.940 well obviously not it probably shows you how bad islam was that you know alexius would send to the 0.76

01:23:09.360 west and say like look we we we need to shore up yeah we need help but then he's playing both sides 0.90

01:23:14.880 some of the time you see this you know and then also in the west and i don't want to just pick

01:23:19.340 on the east tons of infighting amongst christian nations like you said they were they had to ban

01:23:25.160 crossbows on the continent because they were all killing each other constantly over empires and

01:23:32.040 realms and nations and power and wealth and resources and political rivalries and all sorts

01:23:37.220 of things. And it just shows you that we're not yet done. Like we're not yet ready for total

01:23:42.380 self-governance. We haven't reached full maturity of unity as Christians. We're not the hobbits

01:23:48.740 coming back to scour the Shire yet. We haven't finished. And one of the ways that we'll know

01:23:54.800 and that we will growingly know our maturity is actually Christians getting along.

01:24:00.040 Yeah, I think that's really helpful. We will jump in now to our final and closing the assault on 0.99

01:24:05.980 On June 7, 1099, the Crusaders, much depleted in number and strength, stood before the walls

01:24:17.360 of Jerusalem. By then, the Crusader force numbered just 1,300 knights and perhaps 10,000 infantry.

01:24:25.260 This number was reduced by roughly two-thirds since the siege at Nicaea had begun two years

01:24:30.740 previously. They wept with joy for having arrived, but yet they remained so far from

01:24:36.400 accomplishing their mission. They immediately set about laying siege to the city, but it didn't

01:24:42.060 give way so easily. To make matters worse, the Muslim inhabitants had blocked and poisoned the 1.00

01:24:48.640 wells outside the city. Then Providence smiled on the Crusaders. Six Christian ships had arrived 1.00

01:24:55.140 from Genoa and England at the port of Jaffa, about 25 miles away. All six ships carried food,

01:25:02.800 but even more vital for the conquest, they brought cargos of ropes, nails, and bolts,

01:25:08.460 all necessary for the construction of siege machines. By July 14th, the Crusaders had planned

01:25:15.020 to wage an all-out assault on Jerusalem. Before they did, a certain man of God called for a

01:25:20.860 painful regiment of fasting and continual prayers made in devotion to God. A priest had received a

01:25:27.940 vision that promised victory if the crusaders put an end to their constant internal dissensions,

01:25:34.160 fasted, and marched around the city. Much as the people of God did at Jericho in the book of Joshua,

01:25:40.660 the Christian army walked barefoot around the city while making loud supplications.

01:25:46.780 Crosses held high, the knights marched around the walls of Jerusalem.

01:25:51.520 They next congregated on the Mount of Olives, where Peter the Hermit preached an impassioned

01:25:56.540 sermon.

01:25:57.940 Muslims, for their part, jeered and shot arrows at the knights. 0.99

01:26:01.940 As Raymond Ibrahim writes, the Muslims spat on them and did not refrain from urinating 0.90

01:26:08.380 on them in sight of all, end quote. 0.99

01:26:11.480 Christians who survived would call the Muslim forces demonic and deranged. 0.98

01:26:17.040 Priests cried out, 0.92

01:26:18.280 Think of Christ, who until today has been outlawed and crucified in this city.

01:26:24.360 When the final siege took place,

01:26:26.980 miraculously, Godfrey and his men were able to get their siege tower against the walls.

01:26:33.040 He stood atop the siege works, shooting Muslims with his crossbow. 0.55

01:26:37.300 For his part, Godfrey's men told a seemingly impossible story.

01:26:42.380 They all had seen him single-handedly hoist a siege ladder against the walls,

01:26:47.440 an object that is reported to have weighed around 800 pounds.

01:26:52.840 His men breached the city and opened its gates for the remainder of the Christian army.

01:26:57.760 Crusaders wildly stormed the city and massacred everyone in sight,

01:27:01.880 according to Raymond Ibrahim.

01:27:03.940 He goes on to write,

01:27:05.600 Young Tancred, who was among the first to enter, hacked his way till he reached the Dome of the Rock, 0.81

01:27:11.820 a mosque erected high above and looking down on the sepulchre of Christ 0.69

01:27:16.440 and decorated with the Quran verses denouncing Christian truths. 0.98

01:27:21.220 Its entryway was firm and inflexible, made of iron, but Tancred, harder than iron, 0.64

01:27:27.240 beat it, broke it, and wore it down, and it entered. 0.58

01:27:31.480 He slaughtered his way into the building until he came face to face with a strange idol,

01:27:36.180 possibly an elaborate candelabrum, containing oriental images foreign to the Frank.

01:27:42.080 Was it a Roman god? thought the Bill Wilder man.

01:27:45.260 No, it could only be one, wicked Muhammad, evil Muhammad, he cried while smiting it. 0.93

01:27:50.920 If only his companion were here now, the one to come. 0.97

01:27:54.760 At this moment, my feet would stomp on both Antichrists. 0.99

01:27:58.400 When the smoke had cleared and the bloodletting subsided at Jerusalem, the surviving crusaders 0.98

01:28:04.960 did what they had abandoned all and endured years of deprivation and disease to do.

01:28:11.260 That is, they did what must seem amazing to modern sensibilities.

01:28:16.100 They cleansed and dressed themselves in white, removed their shoes, held crosses, and going

01:28:21.840 to the sepulcher of the Lord and his glorious temple, the clerics and also the laity, singing

01:28:27.780 a new song unto the Lord, in a high-sounding voice of exaltation, and making offerings and

01:28:33.940 most humble supplications, joyously visited the holy place as they had so long desired to do.

01:28:42.240 Though deemed most worthy of honor, Godfrey rejected the title of King of Jerusalem,

01:28:48.020 refusing to wear a golden crown in the place where Christ was crowned with thorns,

01:28:52.540 and was instead coronated advocate, meaning defender or guardian, of the Holy Sepulchre.

01:28:58.880 The Syrian and Armenian Christians who were ejected before Jerusalem's capture

01:29:03.720 were returned to repopulate the city.

01:29:06.640 Jews and Muslims were also later invited back, end quote.

01:29:11.880 The bloodbath at Jerusalem is the main point used today to vilify the efforts of the crusaders.

01:29:18.260 But as Rodney Stark points out, there are several reasons we should be slow to condemn them. 0.84

01:29:24.620 First, Muslims had committed many more and similar acts of bloodshed as a result. 1.00

01:29:30.380 It is quite false to say they were more civilized or tolerant. 1.00

01:29:35.180 Dozens of Muslim massacres of entire cities have been recorded in the decades and centuries

01:29:40.280 before Christians recaptured Jerusalem in 1099.

01:29:43.720 Second, we should consider that under the terms of siege warfare,

01:29:48.260 If a city did not surrender before forcing the attackers to take the city by storm,

01:29:53.080 the expectation was a total massacre. Finally, under the terms of warfare then,

01:29:59.660 everyone accepted the notion that to the victor goes the spoils. When a city refused to settle

01:30:05.420 before the attack, if it was taken, it was common practice to loot for treasure. One other thing

01:30:11.860 that is worth mentioning, it is commonly stated that when Jews fled to their synagogue, they too

01:30:17.360 were massacred. No doubt, there was a hatred of the Jews among many of the Crusaders, for they

01:30:22.540 had often sold Christians into slavery under the Muslims or ratted them out to be killed.

01:30:27.480 But as Stark points out, Jews frequently sided with Muslims and even fought in this particular 0.88

01:30:34.280 army alongside them. There is no reasonable reason why, therefore, the Jews would have been given 0.99

01:30:41.100 special treatment. Rodney Stark's concluding thoughts on the Crusades are helpful. He writes, 0.58

01:30:47.360 What Pope Urban had begun in the field in Clermont had now come to pass.

01:30:53.160 God's battalions had been victorious, and the unbelievers had been driven from Jerusalem.

01:30:59.380 Almost immediately, large numbers of crusaders began to head for home. 0.93

01:31:04.580 After all, they had been gone much longer than anyone had expected.

01:31:09.260 Within several months, the crusader forces remaining in the Holy Land had fallen to perhaps

01:31:14.260 no more than 300 knights and an unknown, but not very large, number of Futsch soldiers. 1.00

01:31:21.020 This was a very dangerous development for surely Muslim forces would come again. 1.00

01:31:26.100 The Holy Land remained encircled by a large Muslim world. Unfortunately, no plans had been 1.00

01:31:32.020 made at the outset for maintaining a liberated Jerusalem because it was thought that the

01:31:37.300 Byzantines would take the lead. No one believed that now. Thus, the question that had been

01:31:42.940 bothering many leading crusaders for several years was, how can our miraculous achievement

01:31:48.960 be sustained?

01:31:56.660 Well, gentlemen, we've heard of the capture, the retaking of Jerusalem, sort of the crescendo

01:32:02.780 of crusade number one.

01:32:05.640 Brian, as you look at this event, why was it so pivotal that Jerusalem was retaken for

01:32:12.120 Christendom?

01:32:12.940 It seems to me that one of the answers, and there's lots of answers that could be given to that question, would be that it was to the Crusaders, at least, I think, a validation of their mission that this shouldn't have been possible.

01:32:28.140 I mean, they they thought on setting out that it was possible or they wouldn't have gone.

01:32:34.200 They wouldn't have tried if they thought, well, there's no way we're going to succeed.

01:32:36.840 but after all of the trials they went through after at nearly every point they discovered as

01:32:43.120 one often does when undertaking a project that it is much much more difficult than they expected

01:32:47.880 and seemingly only possible through divine intervention i think what they saw i think

01:32:52.820 what they felt when they succeeded in capturing jerusalem was the lord is on our side you know

01:32:59.260 what's really interesting about this so remember when men would take the cross the chance of

01:33:03.840 the use of all would go out. God wills it. Right. And, and to Brian's point, it probably at one

01:33:10.220 point seemed very challenging to continue. I mean, they're starving, they're dying of thirst.

01:33:16.660 Their, their opponents, the Muslims are well supplied, well fortified, and did not have to

01:33:22.960 travel across the entirety of Eastern Europe, you know, to get down to Jerusalem. And so they're 0.99

01:33:29.480 coming against in a lot of cases superior numbers who are more well rested but it really does go to

01:33:35.720 show that they actually believed that god willed it that they were they were completely convinced

01:33:43.440 otherwise you would have seen many of them retreating that you would have seen many of

01:33:48.460 these lords giving up or capitulating or just remaining like at nicaea you know they would

01:33:55.300 have just not, not continued, but they so wholeheartedly believed in their mission that

01:33:59.900 they actually continued to fight and they won, which I, I, I think back to our earlier

01:34:04.680 conversation was probably affirmation for their cause for what they were trying to do.

01:34:09.780 Yeah.

01:34:10.400 There was affirmation for their whole mission is that they could act.

01:34:13.620 They actually did the thing.

01:34:15.160 They actually took Jerusalem and there were supernatural things that seem to have happened

01:34:19.840 along the way.

01:34:21.660 So I think that's why it's important.

01:34:23.700 yeah it's so interesting to me because you have all these stories in here of for example a certain

01:34:29.460 man of god we're told seeing a vision and doing the jericho thing and you know when i first read

01:34:36.240 that i was like oh you know again modern sensibility is i was like oh surely that wouldn't

01:34:40.520 have made a difference but then it really did and for whatever reason it inspired the people

01:34:47.080 you get to the mount of olives obviously a very significant part of that landscape

01:34:52.060 peter the hermit is preaching this impassioned sermon um just the picture of them having arrows

01:34:59.280 shot at them as they're walking around the city barefoot that you have muslims on the wall 0.96

01:35:03.060 urinating on them and yet for all that it brought again a miraculous victory for christendom so i 0.98

01:35:12.120 think that's really interesting one of the other interesting things i think is i think it's easy

01:35:16.300 for christians particularly christian conservatives today to read this story in light of a zionist

01:35:21.760 lands, which you see clearly in the time period did not exist. So they're not retaking Jerusalem

01:35:27.940 for the Jews so that the Jews can have a homeland. They're retaking it for Christendom. 0.61

01:35:35.040 Yes. They believed it was a Christian land. They believed it was a Christian land. And this goes,

01:35:38.960 Brian, back to Constantine, which I think he's the one that built the church of the Holy Sepulcher.

01:35:43.780 Yep. So they valued this, you know, this place highly. As you get into some of the themes,

01:35:49.640 like the destruction of some of the Jews. 1.00

01:35:53.120 This is maybe where we see some of the messy elements 0.99

01:35:55.520 of siege warfare with them being, you know,

01:35:58.980 with them being slaughtered.

01:36:00.340 What do you make of that?

01:36:01.900 Again, we've talked at length about

01:36:03.760 some of these stories aren't as clean cut as we might.

01:36:08.140 It's probably not like if Disney made a movie,

01:36:10.140 they're probably not going to include certain parts of this.

01:36:12.360 If Disney made a movie.

01:36:13.820 The Muslims would be the heroes today. 1.00

01:36:15.640 If Disney made a movie. 1.00

01:36:16.620 Or a woman. 1.00

01:36:17.120 And there'd be some lesbian Muslim ladies who, like, you know, are the heroes or something like that. 0.68

01:36:23.720 I don't know. 1.00

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01:40:27.960 how do you i guess read this story with all of its complexity and sort of what are some of the

01:40:38.660 conclusions you might come to in terms of you know the capture of the city some of the bad

01:40:43.520 elements that that did happen yeah you have to remember that the rules of warfare were the rules

01:40:49.640 of warfare at that time they weren't going to all of a sudden have an attack of conscience and start

01:40:54.460 from the foundations developing a new theology of just war there in the middle of the crusade.

01:41:00.500 They're not going to do that. So the terms in a siege war at that time were, yes, you can

01:41:05.600 negotiate good surrender terms if you don't think that you're going to be able to withstand the

01:41:10.320 force. What you should do is negotiate terms of surrender. And you'll say, yeah, we'll give you

01:41:15.100 this much. This is going to what's going to happen to the local government. You know, you're going to

01:41:20.540 be able to enslave these people it stinks but if you didn't do that and you got defeated 1.00

01:41:27.520 the rule was and this is what everybody did muslims did this everybody did this 1.00

01:41:32.740 is that they would just kill a lot of people like it was their convention yeah that was the rules 1.00

01:41:38.660 it's like now we don't use hollow point bullets and then if you you know didn't surrender you

01:41:43.160 could be completely eliminated makes no no no sense that we don't use hollow point bullets by

01:41:48.100 the way. What a dumb rule. I'm yeah, we should talk about the Geneva Convention now for like 1.00

01:41:53.640 30 minutes. That's what the people want. You know, it's interesting because one of the problems

01:41:59.360 with the taking of Jerusalem was, you know, as Stark points out, they didn't really have a long

01:42:04.220 term plan to keep it fortified to hold it, to send resources. Interestingly enough, though,

01:42:10.080 they did hold Jerusalem for almost a century. 1187 is when Saladin at the Battle of Hattin

01:42:15.980 or however you say that after the battle after this battle they retake jerusalem eventually

01:42:21.180 you know the old defenders of christendom are expelled um so they did hold it for some time

01:42:26.680 but but why was this so important you know we'll get to people like richard the lionheart he in

01:42:31.580 fact won't take jerusalem because he thinks it's useless like taking a city that you're just going

01:42:36.900 to lose again yeah why is the long-term strategy why was that so important that they you know

01:42:42.460 didn't think through it but you know should have i mean what you're looking at in this you have to

01:42:46.700 remember what were they trying to do and one of the big motivations was the suffering of their

01:42:51.700 brothers and sisters in these lands so they were trying to come in and say we have a state of

01:42:57.060 affairs where essentially lands that have been christian for centuries christian civilization

01:43:01.900 christian cities um christian cultures had been brutally conquered had been erased converted into

01:43:11.140 to the, you know, centers of idolatry to a false god.

01:43:15.400 And then their brothers and sisters for generations

01:43:17.940 had been subject to functional slavery at best

01:43:21.760 and vicious mistreatment, murder, rape, and abuse at worst.

01:43:26.860 So that's one of the biggest motivations of these men

01:43:29.420 going to free these lands.

01:43:31.260 So to them, even with the hindsight of looking back

01:43:35.340 over the strategic failures

01:43:36.560 and in terms of holding the crusader kingdom for long,

01:43:41.100 You have to give them credit, man.

01:43:43.460 I mean, all of these Christian men and women now and children that were the day before

01:43:49.380 slaves, and now they weren't.

01:43:51.980 And now they had Christian rulers and Christian lands being reestablished. 0.85

01:43:55.360 So strategically, and maybe we'll talk about this in the future, but yes, there were failures

01:44:01.240 in supplying.

01:44:02.420 There was a loss of political will in the West, in the cost of maintaining these empires.

01:44:07.280 and really what what you needed to do is essentially colonialize it yeah you needed to 1.00

01:44:13.120 make total war and continue and conquer them muslims don't coexist peacefully like you can't 0.84

01:44:20.260 long term they would have had to just conquer them that was it or be conquered by them and what 1.00

01:44:25.920 happened is that they were reconquered by them in in many cases so that you have to look back to

01:44:31.680 their motives the the outcome even though it's imperfect and there was lots of setback and

01:44:36.520 defeat and there was intrigue and there was political rivalry amongst in their

01:44:40.100 own camp.

01:44:42.200 They fundamentally,

01:44:43.940 they were aiming for what I think are noble ends and made some errors and

01:44:51.520 holding them as the,

01:44:54.600 as the years went on.

01:44:55.700 And there's lots of lessons for us in their failures,

01:44:59.980 but there's also lessons for us in their defeat in their,

01:45:02.540 in their victories.

01:45:03.200 Like,

01:45:04.540 man,

01:45:05.140 what are we willing to do?

01:45:06.520 what are we what are we willing to give for the sake of the glory of christ and his people

01:45:12.880 they were willing to die yeah i think it's a helpful question one of the other questions

01:45:17.380 as we think about like how some of these lessons would be applied today one of the questions i had

01:45:22.380 was you know what what sorts of strongholds i'm using that in scare quotes what sorts of

01:45:28.080 strongholds today should be or could be retaken and and part of it may be that you know stories

01:45:34.600 like this inspire us it certainly seemed like it was impossible to retake Jerusalem but where are 0.91

01:45:41.500 areas where Christians could or should concentrate force and efforts for this work of retaking I think 0.80

01:45:50.120 the I think the first place is actually I mean maybe it's just because this is what we're doing 0.98

01:45:53.620 but as in media and and the reason I say that is because we need truth tellers that's why guys like

01:46:00.420 tucker are gaining grounds so much right now is because he's willing to talk to the taboos you

01:46:07.020 know to say the things that is it's obvious to everybody but he's the one that's going to get in

01:46:12.560 you know behind the microphone and actually say the thing you know so i think that's one area that

01:46:17.560 christians definitely need to be um active in is truth telling through media and yeah and i i mean

01:46:26.300 I'm not just saying that for this podcast because there is plenty of space for

01:46:31.740 more truth tellers. Absolutely.

01:46:34.080 And so we're trying to do the best we can to do that.

01:46:36.700 The other area is most obviously is, is like churches.

01:46:41.700 Churches need to be, which sounds crazy. 1.00

01:46:44.360 Churches need to be retaken by Christians. 1.00

01:46:47.060 Yeah. And they need to be given like one of the things that, 1.00

01:46:50.160 that Christians need to recover first.

01:46:52.220 Cause there's a list of things that I would say, the family, the church, 0.99

01:46:55.740 the local politics, the state, the nation. Like you can work your way out, culture, art, politics,

01:47:01.320 all these different things. But before we're going to be able to do any of that, what we need to

01:47:05.960 recover is the political will to be Christians and understand adequately what that means culturally,

01:47:12.840 politically, in the family, in the church, in the state. We need to recover the political will

01:47:17.340 to actually be the kinds of Christians that can then go in, in taking these institutions,

01:47:23.100 do something Christian with them.

01:47:25.440 So we need a thick enough view of what it means to be Christian 0.73

01:47:28.500 that when you go and retake the family, you know what to do with it. 0.99

01:47:32.460 That when you go and retake the education of children,

01:47:35.240 you know what to do with it.

01:47:36.680 When you go to the church, you know what to do with the church.

01:47:39.280 When you go to a business.

01:47:40.940 But then I would say...

01:47:42.420 Well, but how?

01:47:43.820 How do people know?

01:47:45.280 Yeah, and that's why your point to the media is that

01:47:47.420 they need the church and the teaching arm to indoctrinate.

01:47:53.100 essentially to counter propagandize from the successful discipleship propagandizing and

01:48:00.220 enculturation that the the this globalist secular humanist ascendant left has done

01:48:06.900 we need to get that heart back but then what i think we do with it is that we need to retake

01:48:14.100 and either retake or build institutions in all of these areas of life so that we can begin to

01:48:22.860 in some ways it's specializing more because right now a lot of the this happens at the beginning of

01:48:30.640 movements often is that you'll have a lot of generalism we kind of fit in in this where

01:48:35.340 we speak to a lot of things we're we're generally not attempting to come up with new ideas

01:48:41.000 ourselves we're trying to get the right ideas communicated the right way to the right people 0.98

01:48:46.260 Um, but as Christian Christianity regains its chest, in a lot of ways, one thing I hope to see 0.97

01:48:54.420 happen is the rise of specialists who will own some area of culture and, uh, the life under the 0.98

01:49:03.420 sun and that they will go and lead the charge there. So Christian politics, we need Christian 0.92

01:49:08.420 politicians who are not pastors. Um, we need businessmen who are not pastors. We need like 0.53

01:49:14.000 right now the pastors the church is kind of doing a lot of the heavy lifting or um in in this world

01:49:20.160 of like let's reclaim this but we need like a political um theorist to be a political theorist

01:49:26.440 and do the work in that area and and build institutions of political think tank and

01:49:32.280 political influence that are overtly right-wing conservative christian politics and that's what

01:49:39.060 they do they're not theologians and we need people who are going to go out and say and here's how to

01:49:43.900 be a businessman and take economic space. And I'm, that's what I am. That's what I do. I have

01:49:48.800 a good pastor. He does ministry of word and sacrament and prayer and leads the church and

01:49:54.240 discipline and keys to the kingdom and all that. And it gives me the space to then go and be an

01:49:58.240 unashamed, unapologetic Christian businessman attempting to build a Christian business empire. 0.91

01:50:03.700 Like we need institution building that is focused and focusing the energy of 0.96

01:50:10.300 that Christianity with a chest, a full-orbed vision of Christianity into every area of what

01:50:16.620 it means to be human. Yeah, I think one of the areas, Brian, you've talked at length is about

01:50:20.860 the ways in which Christians, I guess, are allergic to power. Yeah, it's a big problem. 1.00

01:50:25.760 We think that power is a bad thing. One of the questions I have, Aaron Wren in his book,

01:50:30.420 I think Life in the Negative World, it's his new book. He mentions that one of the things

01:50:34.800 christians need to do is stop trying to retake institutions that are quite obviously lost so

01:50:41.900 this would be the the opposite and sometimes you can retake jerusalem sometimes you can't

01:50:45.620 so he says for example like legacy media is largely lost to the left and so what needs to

01:50:51.740 be done instead of trying to expend effort like retaking the new york times or something right

01:50:55.800 we just need to build more new christendom presses and more 1819 news and stuff like that

01:51:01.820 So agree, disagree with that sentiment is sort of parallel versus when to retake.

01:51:07.560 Do you think that we it would be a wasted effort, for example, to try to retake public education right now?

01:51:13.640 Yeah. So the way I think about this is just in terms of strategic feasibility, that's really this is a practical, pragmatic question.

01:51:21.020 you we're not going to retake fox news um but can we uh could we possibly retake a local

01:51:29.040 um media thing absolutely or like tucker he he starts his own tucker did a parallel thing

01:51:36.080 and i'm thinking about this politically kind of like this could um christians tomorrow

01:51:41.720 our brand retake the senate probably not but can a politically active astute and blessed by the lord

01:51:52.200 christian community retake a city council in a medium-sized city i actually think yes so some

01:52:00.740 of these things are going to be strategic where you look at the nature of the institution you're

01:52:04.660 targeting and you say what's feasible and it's like can you start a parallel city council not

01:52:10.780 really. You actually can't basically do that. You can start influential other types of institutions

01:52:17.920 that might ultimately give you the political power in an area to win that city council. You might

01:52:23.760 need other institutions first, but you can't start a parallel city council really in the same way

01:52:28.920 that you can start, that Tucker can start a parallel news network. So I think Christians 1.00

01:52:33.020 really need to, they need to get clear, not just think in general principles, but think specifically

01:52:39.200 about, A, what am I as an actual person in an actual place gifted and called to do?

01:52:48.160 Most people are not going to be media creators.

01:52:51.480 Most people are not going to be pastors.

01:52:53.880 Most people are not going to be politicians. 0.97

01:52:56.300 But can you start a business that takes ground and hires Christians?

01:53:03.620 Yeah, a lot of people can do that.

01:53:05.080 Can you so I'm think I'm thinking of this institution level question very, very practically, and I think it needs to be thought out first on that level.

01:53:14.260 Otherwise, we spend all of our time theorizing instead of actually saying, but what institutions in my community could I actually the Republican caucus like what institutions could I actually have a meaningful effect on with the size and power and abilities that I have?

01:53:28.920 Yeah, I agree with you. And I would push back on some other parts, because I think really what we see in our story today, why didn't they have a plan for keeping Jerusalem? Because I don't think they thought they could take it. If they had known like, oh, we're we're definitely going to take it. What do we do when we get there? You know, who is going to rule? How is how's our administration going to work? How's the justice system? How are we going to fortify it? 0.76

01:53:55.980 You know, and how are we going to make that now like the new beachhead where we then fight all of our wars out of that?

01:54:02.500 So we have more well-supplied armies and things like that to go out.

01:54:06.680 I don't think they actually thought they could win it and keep it.

01:54:09.680 I think that they expected the East and Byzantine to be the answer to that question.

01:54:14.960 And then they found that the Byzantines were not, that Constantinople, that they were actually not going to cooperate and provide political support.

01:54:21.820 So I think the West banked on cooperation with the East.

01:54:25.400 And then what they found out was politically that wasn't going to happen.

01:54:29.240 They were actually then seen as enemies like, oh, great.

01:54:32.100 The West is going to gain all this power in this region.

01:54:34.720 I don't know if I'm reading that that rightly.

01:54:36.460 I think that was probably a dynamic.

01:54:37.540 Yeah.

01:54:37.660 And I think they should have just taken it.

01:54:39.200 But anyway, one of the things that I think, along with what you said, Brian, about taking, you know, city councils and starting businesses and things like that.

01:54:49.780 I think one of the things that we're in danger of, what happens if God moves and all of a sudden there are doors open to the state center, to the federal level power, like the Senate, the U.S. Senate or something like that?

01:55:02.700 Who do you put in place?

01:55:03.820 Because even as you said, like, what, do we have 100 senators that are Christians that we could even draw from?

01:55:11.800 Well, no, because we haven't done the basic work yet to get to that point.

01:55:15.900 So I guess all that to say is one of the things I think we should think through is aspiring to be those things so that when the opportunity does come, we're ready because this is what often a failure of administration.

01:55:30.740 Yeah.

01:55:30.880 Those lower level institutions need to be taken.

01:55:33.480 And because they're the pipelines that are going to create.

01:55:36.300 What's his name that was at our conference last year?

01:55:40.120 Nick Solheim.

01:55:40.980 he talked a lot about this problem politically that when you have leaders the problem is that

01:55:46.560 even take a leader like Donald Trump he has thousands of political appointee positions

01:55:52.480 to fill the bureaucracy of leadership but there aren't people who have been adequately trained

01:55:57.340 to take those exercises it's generally the exercise of bureaucratic power where the left

01:56:02.420 wins conservatives haven't been good at creating bureaucratic level leadership they can create

01:56:09.520 populist executive level leadership, but then we're bad at creating a pipeline in political

01:56:14.540 internships and, you know, you know, in law and in business where we're creating a lot

01:56:20.100 of these leaders who really are the ones who actually carry out the majority of the

01:56:24.760 governance.

01:56:25.360 Right.

01:56:25.540 And bureaucratic authority is similar to the, you know, beheading and then tossing the heads

01:56:31.240 over the wall.

01:56:32.020 That's I mean, that's our modern equivalent because, you know, we all find like bureaucratic

01:56:36.120 power to be distasteful.

01:56:37.260 I imagine that the crusaders didn't find it to be particularly enjoyable to throw heads over the 0.96

01:56:42.560 wall back at the Muslims. But anyway, so that's how I feel about bureaucracy.

01:56:47.280 Yeah, because we don't like bureaucracy. So we kind of neglect it on the right.

01:56:51.220 Instead, what we need to do, if you want to build institutions, do you know what you need?

01:56:55.240 Really competent bureaucratic leadership. So this is what I mean about what can you do

01:57:00.640 in business? This is trained in real churchmanship, like actual leadership of churches.

01:57:07.260 is not just about saying things from the pulpit.

01:57:09.780 It's also about bureaucratic executive leadership.

01:57:13.320 So we've seen this in our own organizations, in the church.

01:57:16.000 As the church has grown, New Christendom Press has grown.

01:57:19.260 We've had to identify, train, and empower key leaders in that middle kind of segment

01:57:27.260 who are actually going to then go and carry out the bureaucratic leadership of an organization.

01:57:33.000 And organizations don't work.

01:57:34.860 I prefer administration.

01:57:36.640 by the way, versus you're an administrator. But this is an example. We're, we're, we have a bad

01:57:42.780 taste in our mouth about bureaucratic leadership, but it's actually essential. And the majority of

01:57:48.280 leadership in the world is actually not the highest level executive leadership. It's management,

01:57:55.440 competent management of systems. You can't have systems that are, think about it. How could you

01:58:01.180 hold the crusader kingdom through an extremely complex system of management that would require

01:58:08.260 supply chains across hundreds of miles of potentially hostile territory. That's where

01:58:13.460 the failure was. It wasn't that they didn't have some charismatic leaders that could lead in

01:58:18.900 Jerusalem. It was that they didn't have the political will at home and then the management

01:58:23.840 leadership to execute this enormously complex task of maintaining this forward deployed force

01:58:30.820 is essentially in hostile territory it's like why you know in iran i think the gulf war was like

01:58:36.340 this where you have the in the middle eastern forces they you know saddam they they come way

01:58:41.580 out and then they got to the end of their supply chain and they were out of fuel they didn't have

01:58:46.880 resupply capabilities like we do they didn't realize that an army marches on its stomach

01:58:51.620 and its fuel tank in the modern day and so they really couldn't win ultimately like they just

01:58:57.600 couldn't use to cut off their supply chain and they're dead. So that, I mean, that's why our

01:59:01.360 military today in its vast amount of power, a lot of it's bureaucratic power. So I think it's

01:59:06.500 unsexy, but this is like, everybody wants to be a voice kind of leader, but the way God made the

01:59:14.380 world, the majority of where we win is actually going to happen in a millions or thousands and

01:59:23.040 thousands of people being competent Christians on these levels of just faithful execution

01:59:28.800 on doing what the Lord has put in front of them, working heartily as unto the Lord.

01:59:33.860 I don't know if I'm making sense, but this is an issue I've been thinking about a lot

01:59:36.960 since Nick Solheim talked about it at our conference last year.

01:59:40.940 I've been thinking like, man, that's true.

01:59:43.300 And I didn't realize how important that not just the president, but his 8,000 staffers

01:59:48.700 is.

01:59:49.660 Where are we going to get those people?

01:59:52.380 people in our communities if we're not making them. Yeah. I also think like you look at the

01:59:56.520 Roman empire at its height and as Brian said, it's very unsexy, but what they were so good at

02:00:01.520 is administration, leadership, things like engineering. Yeah. That was the Romanization

02:00:06.780 of the church was taking the system of governments of Roman imperialism and applying the way that

02:00:14.580 they balanced the local to the empire was like a symphony of management and leadership and

02:00:21.840 executive. And I mean, they were, they were so good at that. Why is, why is the Roman Catholic

02:00:26.760 church, the oldest bureaucracy on earth? Because it's Roman. It took Roman ideals and it applied 0.63

02:00:33.680 it to their governance. And that's pretty much what the Roman Catholic church is, is the oldest

02:00:37.040 bureaucracy in the world. Yeah. I think that's really helpful. A final question I want to ask 0.92

02:00:40.960 as we wrap this episode up, give people some practical, particularly for pastors and for

02:00:46.960 churches what can churches do to inspire men in business and politics as you said all these

02:00:52.280 different exercises of power um it seems brian and you mentioned this before uh a lot of times

02:00:59.160 what happens right now is we have pastors yeah who are trying to be all things they're trying to be

02:01:04.760 everything in all spheres and so you'll get a you know a pastor who gets in the political realm and

02:01:08.860 he'll say something like my you know the main function in a political role is to preach the

02:01:12.660 gospel and we say, well, actually it's to be a politician. And that is a different thing than

02:01:18.040 the ecclesiastical sphere. But I'm just wondering, it seems like if you look at a Moscow or an Ogden,

02:01:24.000 one of the things we're trying to do is not just tell all the guys in our church, you need to be

02:01:28.500 a pastor. Right. We're trying to say to them, you could be great at business and how this is how it

02:01:34.120 could impact your community for the kingdom. You could be great at politics and all these other

02:01:38.400 spheres. So I'm just curious from you guys perspective as pastors who've pushed that

02:01:43.140 sort of thing, how do you equip and inspire other pastors to kind of have the same mindset?

02:01:51.240 I mean, you have to get the right aim before you're going to end up in the right destination.

02:01:55.500 So this is why I think it's really important that we have conversations like this about

02:01:59.220 basically encouraging as a sign of success, mobilization and equipping of men

02:02:07.100 and women as well on all of these levels

02:02:10.300 of societal, cultural, and institutional leadership. 1.00

02:02:13.040 Like how do you have churches that function well? 1.00

02:02:16.800 You need a lot of women 1.00

02:02:18.000 who are good at managing the home. 1.00

02:02:19.940 That's a type of this leadership I'm talking about.

02:02:22.620 They need to be able to be managers of their home. 0.98

02:02:26.180 And I mean, under their husband's authority,

02:02:28.400 but the way that Titus 2 is talking about.

02:02:31.200 They're becoming experts in running the home

02:02:35.560 such that it loves husbands and children, feeds people, overflows in hospitality.

02:02:40.700 So how do you get those?

02:02:42.020 Well, you need men who are competent as lords in their home.

02:02:45.240 They know how to equip their wife, give her the right vision and resources that she needs

02:02:49.560 to rule, to be that he needs to rule the home well.

02:02:53.720 This is why when you take that into the church in 1 Timothy 3, 4, and 5, Paul says that a

02:02:58.420 man has to manage his household well, to be equipped to manage the household of faith.

02:03:02.500 That's the kind of leadership he's going to go and exercise in the church if it functions well.

02:03:06.560 He's not just going to do everything himself.

02:03:09.700 He is going to equip the saints for the work of the ministry.

02:03:13.040 So pastors, I think, they need to be in the business of setting their congregation up

02:03:19.820 so that the men aren't hearing that what it would look like for you to successfully be

02:03:24.640 discipled is largely for you to be a pastor.

02:03:27.560 You should all aspire to the pastoral office.

02:03:30.020 That's really the elite.

02:03:31.300 That this is what happened in the Acts 29 young, restless and reformed culture is that the church planter was set up as the ideal man. And so what he's the Cicero, you know, figure the rhetorician of the day. He's the one who's like, that's the pinnacle of glory, pinnacle of competence. He is the charismatic CEO, entrepreneurial church planter leadership.

02:03:54.560 That's what men were basically given to aspire to.

02:03:58.860 And, and that's fine in the sense that we should want really good, competent pastors,

02:04:03.240 but the church actually needs to have a far more robust vision for what a man is than

02:04:09.420 just, well, if you're successful and you want to be the best man, you should be a church

02:04:13.600 planter.

02:04:14.460 Instead, it should be like, yeah, God's going to call some men to ministry, but you should

02:04:19.000 actually aspire to be what God made you to be with the kind of competency that goes and wins

02:04:25.840 glory. You should want to be, if you are an entrepreneur, you should be an entrepreneur to

02:04:31.520 the glory of God. If you are not wired for that and you are to work heartily for somebody else

02:04:37.780 and assist and then do that. I mean, it's setting up the vision for success as broadly as the human

02:04:45.600 vocation is. And I do think this is an area where we failed a lot. I don't know if this is that was

02:04:51.620 super practical, but just getting that right aim is such an important starting point that

02:04:55.540 we've been handed, I think, the wrong model for men to aspire to and women to aspire to.

02:05:02.460 But I think that's probably one of the goals of season three and focusing on Christendom is that

02:05:07.060 we're not mainly focusing on pastors. Pastors play a role. And, you know, Peter, the hermit,

02:05:13.000 he's rousing the men he's charging them that you know they will say their prayers and you know

02:05:17.740 consecrate themselves to the lord as they go to battle but you need warrior types and you need

02:05:21.880 prince types and you need funding um you need all sorts of different people to make this work

02:05:26.800 uh dan want to get your closing thoughts on that no i i think you know everything that brian said

02:05:32.560 is is really good i think one of the temptations uh when you're a communicator like most pastors

02:05:38.400 they have to be good communicators or else you know they're not very effective yeah is that

02:05:43.120 obviously if you feel the strong calling of being a pastor and you think it's a very high calling

02:05:49.900 which it is you're going to encourage men to be like you right and there is a way that that's good

02:05:57.020 and a way that that can be dangerous and the way that it can be dangerous is like you said it's the

02:06:01.600 temptation is to suck everybody all of these competent men into the ecclesiastical sphere

02:06:06.980 yeah and and essentially what you do is you set up a lot of guys for failure like you had mentioned

02:06:11.920 in axe 29 it was it was a you know throw the spaghetti against the wall and hope that some

02:06:17.080 of them stick but a lot of those guys really should have just gone into marketing yeah they

02:06:21.780 should have done that's right because because their their failures are actually amplified it's

02:06:26.700 not just they made a mess of their own life but you also have people that are somewhat successful

02:06:34.860 at their marketing and they attract hundreds of people you know dozens of families and then when

02:06:41.680 the implosion inevitably happens with some of these not every single one then you're affecting

02:06:47.460 you know it's multiplicitous you have many people you've just you've just failed and so i think that

02:06:54.480 is a definitely a temptation for pastors is to over state the importance of their office for

02:06:59.720 every single man that shows competency and to try to suck them in. 0.58

02:07:03.960 The other thing that I'd know, I noticed in, in just the, uh, the Christian culture that 0.68

02:07:09.160 we have at hand is like this, like you had mentioned, Eric, that your job is actually

02:07:14.760 to preach the gospel.

02:07:15.680 You're an evangelist in everything that you do.

02:07:17.880 So if you pour concrete, you're a concrete Christian evangelist.

02:07:22.300 If you're a politician, you're a political Christian evangelist.

02:07:26.160 You even have guys, the gospel everywhere you go is, is kind of your job.

02:07:29.720 You even have guys who, now it's not wrong, obviously, to share the gospel.

02:07:33.180 That's great.

02:07:33.980 But, you know, you'll say, how good are you as a, you know, a concrete guy?

02:07:38.260 And they'll say, they'll base that based on how many times I shared the gospel today.

02:07:42.360 Which, again, that's an important function for every Christian.

02:07:45.760 Yet we might say, well, what kind of work do you do?

02:07:48.540 Did the driveway crack within the season?

02:07:51.540 I want to know that the surface is still there, that you mixed the thing right, and you knew about the environmental conditions.

02:07:57.540 and uh are you a master craftsman at what you do are we thinking in categories properly yeah i mean

02:08:02.740 one of the things that you know modern christians really lack is subtlety you know and you can see

02:08:07.900 that from christian entertainment yeah you just watch a christian movie and if if you think

02:08:12.440 fireproof or whatever god is not dead what fill in the blank if that's the target for how you live

02:08:17.820 your life if that's the story that you're trying to live i mean go for it knock yourself out but

02:08:23.040 it definitely lacks subtlety that it's better i would rather hire a guy that's really good at

02:08:28.100 concrete well that's what i would really that's what i want and let your reputation shine yeah

02:08:33.820 it's like nobody does concrete better than this guy he's going to charge a premium because he's

02:08:38.520 going to pour a concrete driveway that your grandkids are going to still enjoy they're going

02:08:42.780 to be riding their uh they're they're they're going to be rollerblading across it and they're

02:08:46.940 not going to fall over and you can say like why why do you why do you pour concrete so much better

02:08:51.240 than the other guy is because, well, I'm a Christian and I believe that my reputation

02:08:55.060 is in it, you know, is, is tied directly to my work for God because I don't actually ultimately

02:09:00.460 work for you or, you know, to please you. I work to please the Lord Jesus Christ who made heaven

02:09:05.180 and earth and everything in it. And I want this to stand for your generations. Yeah. That's a much

02:09:09.720 more powerful gospel message in my opinion than just, Hey, here's a quote, by the way, the Lord

02:09:15.320 Jesus Christ died for your sins. And, you know, on the third day rose again, and please put your

02:09:19.040 faith in him. So Dan, one of the practical things I think I see you doing a lot in our community

02:09:23.920 is let's say we get a high cap business type entrepreneurial guy, and maybe, maybe he is

02:09:29.980 already successful. Maybe he makes some money, but the way you pastorally would, uh, you know,

02:09:34.940 challenge him is to say, how big is your vision? Yeah. Right. And, and so what you're often doing

02:09:40.680 is not saying, Hey, you know, the only really valuable thing is to preach the gospel. And so,

02:09:45.400 you know and and you know to fund missions overseas or something like that you're saying

02:09:50.360 no no no have a have a vision for your legacy for your people uh how can you build this community

02:09:55.940 how can you start businesses that other people here work at so that we can be an anti-fragile

02:10:00.860 community i think that's yeah in a lot of ways for the pastor and and for the the message guy

02:10:06.640 yeah when you see the potential of certain men in the church some sometimes it's like hey you need

02:10:11.400 to just work hard, provide for your family, you know, leave a Christian inheritance of the faith,

02:10:17.160 catechize your kids. All of those things are great and they're free. You know, that's really

02:10:22.660 good. You do get some guys that, that you look at and you can see the potential and you're like,

02:10:28.000 actually you should be somewhat of a Christian Lord in a way, lowercase L Lord, you know,

02:10:33.700 but they have the means and the skills and God has just gifted them with the talents,

02:10:37.980 you know 10 talent guys that the work that they do could actually benefit the guy who needs to

02:10:45.780 just work and provide for his family and maybe even call him up you know the the guy that has

02:10:51.560 fewer talents to say hey you should think about your life this way and business this way and

02:10:55.620 you're investing this way those sorts of guys need to be called up farther than just let's see how

02:11:01.280 big you can get your 401k your retirement accounts and uh how many vacation homes you can buy you

02:11:07.020 know and how much how early you can retire you can retire at 35 congratulations you're just going to

02:11:12.380 diet you know you you uh what was that quote that we mentioned the other day uh all men uh many men

02:11:18.800 are die at 30 but they're put in the ground at 80 yeah you know and that's that's essentially what

02:11:23.400 you're solidifying with a guy like that is you're taking your tent you have 10 talent guy and you're

02:11:27.580 just burying it in the ground you know so so that's what i i really try to do with a lot of

02:11:33.340 these guys that have high capacities is instead of saying you've been successful at business,

02:11:37.940 brother, you should be an evangelist because you could be successful and, you know, convincing

02:11:42.180 many people to make a decision for Jesus Christ. I want them to actually pour into the lives of

02:11:47.820 the men in the church, have a big vision and then crush it. Yeah, absolutely. Not everything is

02:11:52.780 theology. Ah, like not everything is theology. If our theology is true, not everything is theology,

02:11:59.260 meaning that we don't need to mark out success for the ideal man as every man being a theologian

02:12:07.700 there's a level on which every christian is a theologian in that he thinks thoughts about god

02:12:11.220 we want them to be accurate and he must you know excel in the faith and those are all true but so

02:12:16.860 often we just collapse success our model for success down instead of saying man i would love

02:12:24.240 to see a you know who's a good dave ramsey's actually a good a pretty good example normie

02:12:29.060 example of this where dave ramsey's like purportedly christian and i i've got a lot of stuff from like

02:12:34.800 dave come on man he's a very normie kind of even blah evangelical from my perspective or at least

02:12:41.200 impression of him but you look at that guy and you go and this isn't endorsing everything dave

02:12:46.040 ramsey believes financially but look at what he's done he's like i'm a finance guy i'm gonna

02:12:51.500 tie my finances to my counsel, definitely to like be generous. You're, you're ending with

02:12:58.300 be generous and he will talk about God and things like that. But generally speaking,

02:13:02.740 Dave Ramsey's whole thing is like, I'm going to build an excellent media company. That's

02:13:06.440 really good at communicating financial ideas that I think are important. And I just wish we had so

02:13:13.020 many more Christians who were like excellently building institutions like that. I wish that I

02:13:19.820 had 10 people that i could point to and say if you want to learn about real estate investment

02:13:24.160 go talk to this guy and what it's not going to be is just like a podcast about post-millennialism

02:13:29.720 where they occasionally talk about real estate it's going to be like real practical and helpful

02:13:35.720 and they're going to be actually building you know eight nine ten figure real estate portfolios

02:13:41.600 and guess what they're institutions led by and owned by christians who actually are based and

02:13:46.660 that'd be great give me one of those over a hundred podcasts about real estate investment

02:13:53.040 that are basically just thinly veiled podcasts about post-millennialism or something else you

02:13:57.460 know whatever the the thing is of the day yeah and i i think it actually hurts men because it

02:14:01.880 this is more and a more obvious picture in the blue collar world where you have guys who are

02:14:06.340 carpenters or pipe fitters or framers or roofers whatever it is and they'll look at their their

02:14:12.300 trade and it makes sense to them. They can just read it. You know, a really good carpenter can

02:14:17.720 look at the grain of the wood and they know the direction it's going. They know how to plane it.

02:14:20.980 They know whatever, how to cut their dovetails. They know the different pitfalls with different

02:14:24.760 pieces of wood. They just know how to read their craft. Yeah. Right. Why is it then that guys that

02:14:30.560 are in the business sector or in communications, pastors don't tend to see them in the same way

02:14:37.100 that you do the carpenter where they're where they see like oh for a finance guy it just makes

02:14:42.240 sense to them a real estate guy they know real estate it makes sense to them it just clicks

02:14:48.140 there's something about it and so when you say well you're successful in this thing you should

02:14:52.120 actually come into the ecclesiastical realm it's actually hurting them yeah success would be like

02:14:57.500 you get your portfolios where they're managing themselves and then come be an elder at our

02:15:01.180 church you're going to have elders at churches who are high cap in other areas but the point is

02:15:05.620 let's actually make sure we have a broad enough idea for success that we're creating all the way

02:15:11.040 from those high cap leaders who are one in a thousand down to the everyday ordinary guy who

02:15:16.720 is genuinely not that, but he is going to push the needle culturally in his fear. And there is

02:15:22.140 a genuine glory in him being successful down on that level that God created him to live and work

02:15:27.260 on. And he has one talent and he's going to turn a profit on that one talent. Yeah. I'll also say

02:15:32.360 this for aspiring pastors for younger guys uh it's good to aspire to the office but one of the

02:15:37.960 things one of the best things you can do is to get a job is to work especially a trade or something

02:15:43.160 like that uh but to to actually have some experience under your belt before you become a

02:15:48.920 pastor and i would also tell those guys to evaluate whether what you want to be as a pastor or if you

02:15:54.540 want to be something else because a lot of guys because just evaluate this a lot of guys were

02:15:59.540 given that model of success in a highly formative time of life in our generation that acts 29 young

02:16:05.260 restless reformed thing was the pastors the pinnacle so a lot of guys actually need to

02:16:10.320 evaluate and think wait a second am i actually supposed to be a pastor or am i am i really

02:16:15.500 just get to these other three things that overlap with that idea of a pastor and i really actually

02:16:21.220 need to do something different because we've had that too where guys show up i'm a church planter

02:16:25.500 here in utah or i'm this and we're like actually no you're not and i'm not denigrating you by

02:16:30.680 saying no you're not i'm actually trying to help you you're actually not a pastor um yeah you need

02:16:35.580 to find the thing you actually are good at yeah one of the things i want to tie this to as we

02:16:39.480 close uh brian we've got a conference coming up we're going to be talking about king alfred and

02:16:44.120 building christian boroughs of course christian boroughs are going to include the political the

02:16:48.640 economic education yeah all sorts of things we've got a host of great speakers so give me the pitch

02:16:54.400 Give me the plug for the conference and then you can close us down.

02:16:57.780 Yeah.

02:16:58.020 So June 6th to the 8th here in Ogden, Utah, we have, I think, approaching 700 plus folks

02:17:04.320 scheduled to be at our conference so far.

02:17:07.140 We're really looking forward to it.

02:17:08.940 And some of the things we're excited about, not just getting good speakers, Dr. Stephen

02:17:14.520 Wolf, Dr. Joe Rigney, Joel Webb is going to be there.

02:17:17.860 I'll be speaking.

02:17:18.660 We've got, you know, Dan's going to be give it, you know, closing out the whole conference.

02:17:22.160 stands, I think, and have the last word of just issuing a charge to the to the go charge the

02:17:28.140 gates. Not only that, the content's going to be great, but I think the fellowship and the

02:17:33.740 friendship and the networking opportunities are going to be huge because a lot of us are lonely

02:17:38.700 where we're at. And if we could put some faces with names of Twitter friends and if we could

02:17:44.360 forge some alliances with with people that we've actually met and shook hands with and had a meal

02:17:49.740 with, I think that's extraordinarily valuable. And, and really to me, the, the most interesting

02:17:55.900 thing about a conference, that's why I would go to any conference is for that. Not just what's

02:18:01.460 this, you guys, you can get lectures on YouTube. Like we know that that's not the number one

02:18:05.640 reason we put a conference together. So we've, we've tried to think through and make sure that

02:18:09.700 there's lots of context to hang out and get to know folks. But we'd love to have you come.

02:18:15.360 We've tried to make it, we got a much bigger venue this year.

02:18:19.120 We've worked to make it affordable for families.

02:18:21.520 So the kids tickets are like cheap to free for the most part.

02:18:25.860 And there's, there's just, it's going to be a great time.

02:18:29.280 So, and stay for Sunday worship.

02:18:30.820 Yeah.

02:18:30.960 Stay for Sunday worship the ninth.

02:18:32.600 And we're going to have a picnic afterwards.

02:18:34.340 Yeah.

02:18:34.860 We're going to be doing a lot of Psalm singing, try to record a live Psalm singing album,

02:18:38.440 things like that during the conference.

02:18:40.360 But then Sunday morning, we will also be holding our service in the venue.

02:18:44.200 that it, that we're holding a conference that. So we have room for upwards of 1300 plus people

02:18:50.120 to come and worship together there on Sunday. And then, yeah, come to the park. We've rented

02:18:54.980 out a local park and we're going to be putting on a picnic that you can just come and hang out

02:19:00.060 in the sun, hopefully, Lord willing, and get to know folks, get a feel for how we worship together

02:19:08.100 in Ogden. And man, I just, I hope it encourages a bunch of you. I hope you guys have

02:19:13.380 make lifelong friendships

02:19:15.520 and connections through this weekend.

02:19:18.160 Or maybe even a spouse.

02:19:19.680 Maybe even a spouse.

02:19:20.320 We've got a singles mixer.

02:19:21.640 Our singles mixer is almost full.

02:19:23.360 Our men's section is full.

02:19:24.620 We still have a few slots for ladies, I believe.

02:19:27.180 So if you're interested in coming to that,

02:19:29.520 sign up today.

02:19:31.140 And we'd love to get you going there. 1.00

02:19:32.740 Well, I'm hoping there are marriages 1.00

02:19:33.800 that come out of this thing

02:19:34.920 within the 12-month following.

02:19:37.760 You have 12 months.

02:19:38.540 You have 12 months to seal the deal.

02:19:41.200 So now, well, that's it for this episode.

02:19:44.180 Unless you got any last words before I close it out here?

02:19:46.140 Nope, that's great.

02:19:47.120 All right, guys.

02:19:47.740 Well, thanks for listening.

02:19:48.660 We hope that you are inspired by the zeal

02:19:51.720 and by the courage in faith of men like Bohemond.

02:19:55.980 And we hope that the Lord blessed you

02:19:58.180 through hearing those stories.

02:20:00.140 And really above all,

02:20:01.660 we hope that you are through them

02:20:03.260 conformed to the image of Christ

02:20:05.120 and that he puts steel in your spine

02:20:07.480 to do the work that he's put before you

02:20:09.600 in your communities.

02:20:10.380 So may the Lord bless you. 0.92

02:20:12.380 Remember, wink it, Quesa, wink it.

02:20:14.180 He conquers who conquers himself.

02:20:16.020 Make sure the first enemy you fight is your own flesh,

02:20:18.380 but then be bold with all the enemies that follow.

02:20:21.200 And we'll see you next time on the King's Hall.

02:20:40.380 We'll be right back.

02:21:10.380 Overall, it's a great time, so I'd encourage you to head over to patreon.com slash thekingshall

02:21:16.260 if you'd like to support the show and get some extra content.

The King's Hall - April 26, 2024

The First Crusade & the Retaking of Jerusalem

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