The King's Hall - August 28, 2026


The Most Hated Man in the Christian World

Mentioned
Chase Davis, Offensive Christianity, & the Recovery of Biblical Masculinity Lindsay Clancy, Mass Hysteria, & The Feminization of America

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 44 minutes

Words per minute

187.14

Word count

19,489

Sentence count

671


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hey guys, Brian here with a big announcement from New Christendom Press.
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00:00:17.240 what it's done to everything from politics to church life to the economy,
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00:00:23.040 Pre-order it today at newchristendompress.com slash longhouse.
00:00:26.600 And as a thank you for pre-ordering, you'll get 10% off automatically.
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00:00:56.600 There are few people, maybe no people, on the reformed Christian right as hated as him.
00:01:08.900 He's been an outspoken critic of liberal democracy, egalitarianism, and the feminism that has swallowed the West whole.
00:01:16.520 He started a media company with a confrontational style of engagement.
00:01:20.860 He's a flamethrower, intentionally provocative and even inflammatory.
00:01:25.600 He's poked every imaginable societal idol square in the eyes.
00:01:29.580 He's a proud champion of virtually everything the modern liberal hates.
00:01:33.800 Patriarchy, cultural conquest in the name of Christ,
00:01:37.560 criticism of the modern nation state of Israel,
00:01:39.880 and that favorite boogeyman of neoconservatives, Christian nationalism.
00:01:44.840 He's addressed white hot topics like interracial marriage,
00:01:48.680 the repeal of the 19th Amendment, and problems with black culture in America.
00:01:53.100 He sat down for interviews with social outcasts like Patriot Front founder Thomas Rousseau and even Nick Fuentes.
00:02:00.300 He's also now, and has been for several years, my friend.
00:02:04.980 Our friend here in Ogden, actually.
00:02:07.040 We've been known to spend, for example, a frankly absurd amount of time putting together probably the longest ever episode of the Kings Hall podcast,
00:02:14.920 defending him in a past controversy that boiled over to include us a few years back.
00:02:20.700 I've broken bread at his home, met his wonderful family, and hosted him here in Ogden several times.
00:02:26.480 We've shared stages and podcast episodes on a good number of occasions.
00:02:30.800 Now, I could only be talking about one person at this point, and that is reformed Bond villain, Joel Webben.
00:02:38.380 So, why is Joel so hated?
00:02:41.400 Maybe you already know, and maybe you know because maybe you hate him.
00:02:46.440 Whatever the case may be, in today's episode of the King's Hall,
00:02:49.960 we welcome the man himself, Joel Webin, into the studio to try to get to the bottom of one question.
00:02:55.960 Why do people hate Joel Webin so much?
00:02:58.940 And if we have time, maybe even a second, should they?
00:03:02.580 The King's Hall podcast exists to make self-ruled men rule well and win the world.
00:03:15.840 well welcome to this episode of the king's hall podcast i'm one of your hosts eric con joined
00:03:21.180 today by the most hated man in america brian so when he enters the room children scream
00:03:25.860 brian so brian so okay let's not every child you'll beat me to it by the way some children
00:03:32.600 scream listen i would like to apologize to absolutely no one of the things that i've said
00:03:38.780 in the past they didn't go hard enough they were too winsome and that was my mistake to
00:03:45.760 anybody i haven't yet offended i'm sorry for not going harder i'm sorry thank you brian so brian
00:03:51.320 co-host my sidekick yeah you're no you're i am i am whatever whatever who is the guy that gets
00:03:58.380 robin his coffee i'm that you're batman obviously obviously okay i'm alfred which actually that'd
00:04:04.840 be that'd be so i don't even know if alfred would get robin a coffee i think if he asked he'd be
00:04:09.100 like no i only do that you're robin get your own no one cares about you joel webbin the one and
00:04:14.340 own actually but but actually seriously the most hated man on the internet yeah and i this and it
00:04:19.420 hurts my feelings every time when i when i look at the chart which i i maintain a chart of the
00:04:24.620 most and least hated people on the internet and you just keep landing i climbed the charts like
00:04:30.640 just to put in perspective um like and i'm not even being hyperbolic i legitimately think over
00:04:36.260 the last year that nick fuentes has become more likable than joel webben like seriously no nick
00:04:41.640 point less like we got people like i'll listen to nick he's reasonable we got to give nick credit
00:04:46.440 man has insane riz yeah let's be honest yeah let's just be honest with ourselves here and you
00:04:52.500 do have riz but it's a certain type of riz it's like the type of riz that bane or uh who are some
00:04:59.160 other bond villains yeah uh yeah that kind of that's riz part of it is the aesthetic and and
00:05:05.580 like i think by the grace of god he gets all the glory but one of my superpowers is um self-awareness
00:05:11.520 because like honestly like if you're going to be hated and you and and you're like blissfully
00:05:16.180 unaware then it's like that's really insufferable i'm already insufferable but one thing that helps
00:05:20.520 with our friendship is like you guys will you know shoot me a text or give me a call like
00:05:24.820 something's going viral and not so much in a good way and at least the response from me is like i
00:05:29.880 know i know i know i know here's you imagine it was like what are you talking about that was great
00:05:34.280 right can you imagine being cringe and not knowing it yeah because here's the thing like
00:05:39.520 let he who is without cringe cast the first tweet or cast that we all have our cringe you and i have
00:05:45.220 that in common with uh old old songs that we wrote once oh yeah absolutely well hear me out i was
00:05:51.220 actually gonna pitch you could we should do something you could be more winsome yeah and
00:05:56.460 more loved yeah here's the secret this is what i always said about brian when you write love songs
00:06:01.760 to your daughters that dude that helps i mean it helps i mean to the point that on this show
00:06:07.280 when brian says something inflammatory people's response is why does eric suck so bad
00:06:12.100 yeah it's like brian says something i can't believe eric would let brian say that exactly
00:06:17.820 literally people would be like man eric goes on epic rants on the king's hall all the time and
00:06:21.740 i'm like i recently got our church protested by antifa that was you and and that was not eric
00:06:29.780 con's fault that's right he was standing he was sitting in the background going should we edit
00:06:34.940 this out right and then i said if you edit it out i walk and then when people were mad they said
00:06:40.740 man eric sucks eric is such a racist that's crazy he's horrible yeah you you were so real for that
00:06:47.180 we have actually had text threads where you've said to me i got you i got you i'll take the
00:06:55.080 mantle on this one yeah i got it yeah i got it yeah i'll run yeah if you guys are ever in trouble
00:06:59.300 which is not that often you you get in trouble you push the bounds you have godly courage and
00:07:04.400 I appreciate it very much. But anytime you're in trouble, you know, you're only at most 24 hours
00:07:09.820 away from me taking the focus, the cover fire. We said, Joel, we need you to do something right
00:07:14.700 now. And he's like, I don't even need to do anything different. It's already recorded,
00:07:17.440 it's on the way. Yeah. Some people say you never go full retard. I don't believe it. No,
00:07:22.000 I don't. I don't believe it. Whoever said that. There's a time. I don't believe that was Tropic
00:07:25.640 Thunder. Okay. So before we bury the lead here, we've got Joel Webb and you guys heard the most
00:07:31.780 hated man on the christian right maybe on the internet some days i would argue here's our plan
00:07:37.100 for this uh series we're going to have joel here in the studio for three episodes of the king's
00:07:41.940 hall this episode we're going to be talking about why he is the most hated man on the internet and
00:07:46.200 whether that should be the case or not and you know what we'll leave it to your judgment if you
00:07:50.340 want to keep hating joel after this episode feel free you're an idiot you can keep hating eric and
00:07:56.200 me too and every you know you can hate it bounces right off well no it doesn't bounce off it's
00:08:01.680 he absorbs it and makes him stronger exactly good so let the hate it strengthens me so thank you
00:08:08.720 this episode is going to be that the the second episode will be is maga dead we're going to be
00:08:13.820 talking about the current state of maga made a make america great again trump vance america first
00:08:19.120 some of those political issues and then in the third episode we're going to talk about one of
00:08:23.420 the just in depth one of the reasons where there's a venn diagram that's just a perfect circle of
00:08:28.480 people who hate us and you right and it's going to be about race yeah because so much of the
00:08:32.780 politics of today and the controversy centers around this issue of race but we're going to
00:08:37.640 give you another little cherry on top right now which is that both eric and i are going to be at
00:08:44.060 the nxr conference coming up and we're going to be speaking there alongside joel and some other
00:08:49.780 you know just normal center right kind of alex jones i mean yeah it's going to be normal other
00:08:55.720 reform pastors like alex jones and uh james fishback and jp sears yeah jp sears i'm pretty
00:09:02.840 sure he's uh he's a teaching elder apology i can't remember and uh you can use code ogden
00:09:11.460 all caps ogden and it will get you what 20 25 so our regular rate is 250 and we did a deep discount
00:09:18.840 for the early bird and we have to honor that we can't go that low again um i think we did like
00:09:23.260 50% off, but this will be 20% off. So it brings your ticket down to $200. If this was a one night
00:09:28.560 event or something like that, um, we would not charge that amount. Sure. But this is a three
00:09:32.620 day event. Um, it's, it's, uh, it's 13 sessions, a couple panels and like 11 different, uh, main
00:09:39.520 speaking events. And, um, and we're doing it at the Irving convention center, which is in DFW.
00:09:44.780 It's like 15 minutes from DFW airport, 20 minutes from Lovefield. Uh, we chose Dallas, even though
00:09:49.620 We're in the greater Austin area because the flights are cheaper.
00:09:53.080 The venues are larger.
00:09:54.380 There's more hotels.
00:09:55.600 There's more restaurants.
00:09:57.060 And so we're trying to make that price as low as possible on travel and lodging, all those things.
00:10:01.180 And if I could, I would charge less.
00:10:03.780 This conference, we are not going to come in at a profit.
00:10:07.980 Even if we sell out.
00:10:10.580 This conference, like lots of conferences cost money.
00:10:12.800 I get that.
00:10:13.580 Right now, our bill is 300 grand.
00:10:16.540 And we're trying to break even.
00:10:18.260 I looked at the whiteboard.
00:10:19.220 in the nxr headquarters and i was like this is this is not a good business model no it's joel
00:10:25.720 and joel said and i quote i can do what i want yeah and then and then we just moved the conversation
00:10:32.180 so anyway so but we still want to make it as affordable as possible so it uh that'll bring
00:10:36.700 you from 250 down to 200 flat so 200 and there are cheaper hotels and cheaper flights we want
00:10:42.440 to make this as feasible as possible. But you guys, you need to be there. Because here's the
00:10:49.120 deal. I'll just, I'll tell you straight. I have nothing to hide. TPUSA, Charlie Kirk was shot in
00:10:55.560 the neck. And it's a tragedy. I believe that he was a Christian martyr. I believe he was a good
00:11:00.540 man. He was politically moderate, but a good man. And I'm grateful for him. But between his
00:11:07.600 assassination erica kirk who yes i believe is a grieving widow but um but is simply not called
00:11:14.280 by god not not to disparage her personally uh but just the fact that she is a woman um she's
00:11:19.340 not called by god to lead a multi-million dollar organization we all agree with that a massive
00:11:24.240 political organization sinister and mean-spirited um so tpusa is never going to be the same it is
00:11:29.500 it is on the decline cpac i went just as reconnaissance just doing some like cultural
00:11:34.940 political research me and my nxr team we went to cpac uh this year cpac is uh is waning um it's a
00:11:42.660 it was one of the first years that they could not get vance or trump to go neither vice president
00:11:47.040 or usually the republican you know gop nominee or president or something turns out to cpac and
00:11:53.860 they couldn't be bothered because cpac is fading um there is there's actually no significant
00:12:00.700 political event on, on the right. There's explicitly right wing. And here's the deal.
00:12:06.660 There's nothing like this. You might say, well, I don't, I don't think Alex Jones is the greatest
00:12:11.240 Christian in the world. And it's like, okay, well, one, I'm not the greatest Christian in the world,
00:12:15.300 you know, full disclosure. But, but every single one of the speakers, we have a very low bar,
00:12:20.060 albeit, but a bar nonetheless, the bar is they have to have a Y chromosome and they have to be
00:12:25.700 able to say that they believe that Jesus is Lord and he's the only way to heaven. He's the way,
00:12:29.780 the truth and the life. Every single one of our speakers from JP Sears to Alex Stein, right?
00:12:34.420 Because it may be every single time, but it's not every single Stein to Alex Jones, every single
00:12:38.720 one of these guys, they would all say, yes, I believe Jesus is a son of God and he's the way
00:12:43.140 to salvation. And they're a man. So if it was a low bar, but we cleared it. So if you, here's the
00:12:48.320 deal, if you, and the reason I invited Brian and Eric and some of these other guys is because I do
00:12:53.020 still want to have a distinctly reformed presence. So, so this is going to be, now granted it's
00:12:59.420 smaller, right? Give us a minute. Okay. It's going to take a few years for us to build towards this.
00:13:03.760 But our goal is that by the fifth year that we would have between five to 10,000 people. And I
00:13:10.260 absolutely believe that by the grace of God, we're going to be able to do that because right now
00:13:13.880 there is a nature abhors a vacuum. There is a vacuum on the political Christian right in America
00:13:20.360 because TPUSA has fallen in disfavor, because the Daily Wire, Israeli Wire is fallen in disfavor,
00:13:26.600 because CPAC is waning, all these kinds of things, and because a lot of people are disenchanted by
00:13:31.220 Trump. Even though he's done a lot of good, we recognize he was always only a precursor for
00:13:36.440 something that would have to push past him. The things going on, whether it be Epstein or the
00:13:40.960 bigger issue, I think the Iran war, these things have been disappointed. He's at an all-time low
00:13:46.000 in the polls. And so I think that the iron is hot. It's a strike. And it's not just an opportunist
00:13:52.800 moment. It is a necessity moment. There is actually a need. And you have to think in
00:13:58.060 categories and understand that there's the eternal, the local church as the beachhead
00:14:01.900 and the flourishing of men's souls, but also the political, the temporal, the civic. There
00:14:06.960 is a need, not just an opportunity, but a necessity for Christians, for Christians to
00:14:12.540 have some kind of political right institution mechanism, flesh and blood event that turns
00:14:19.240 out uh political candidates that turns out voters that turns out charlie kirk the reason the left
00:14:25.040 hated him was not because of his views his views were center right at most because he was effective
00:14:30.580 in getting votes he could get votes he had votes he had ground game that's right real reach so uh
00:14:35.600 link what's the link for the link is new christian right you got to spell it out new christian right
00:14:39.880 dot com forward slash conference new christian right dot com forward slash conference all caps
00:14:44.440 one word ogden 20 off yeah so we did um we did like a retreat with the elders and deacons and
00:14:52.040 families and we you know obviously the kids were you know they're all tucked in they're they're
00:14:56.620 asleep and we're like let's watch a movie together and uh the guys and it had been you know we'd all
00:15:02.200 seen tropic thunder like 15 years ago you know we're like let's watch tropic thunder we made it
00:15:08.240 like three minutes in i forgot how like how wrong she that movie our wives are just looking at us
00:15:14.360 just like so disgusting are you kidding me like you thought that this was funny ever there was
00:15:19.040 ever a time you thought this was funny i was like and you were like i'm a sinner saved by grace
00:15:22.880 like forgive me i'm sorry so don't go back and watch tropic i still haven't seen it it's rough
00:15:28.340 i i'm well known for not having seen almost any movie like almost like i was a homeschooler but
00:15:33.580 i wasn't i didn't even come by it honestly i just national treasure now national good one
00:15:38.380 the greatest cinematic achievement of american history yeah it's a national treasure
00:15:43.460 so true yeah it's so good which is literal history it's actually a documentary uh speaking
00:15:48.420 of literal history brian yeah you know the segue is coming i and it and i know it's going to be
00:15:53.040 clean a friend of ours made literal history by starting a company yeah he did and literal
00:15:58.160 history is a stretch no well well we're calling it yes uh joe garrisee a good friend of the show
00:16:05.680 yeah good friend of joel's yeah joe garrisee we love him i love joe backers planning financial
00:16:10.600 headline sponsor this episode and known guest of both the king's hall podcast and our friend joel
00:16:15.960 webben on new christian right he came out and visited recently he's a great guy yeah he's based
00:16:20.860 by the way we went out to dinner utterly we went out to dinner and uh it was him and his wife and
00:16:26.020 me and my family and uh and it was great because it like is one of those things that like puts into
00:16:31.760 perspective for my wife she's like oh snap like joe might be you know more hardcore than than me
00:16:36.800 and he was like yeah you know we were visiting churches you know we're having a hard time
00:16:40.860 and we went to this one you know Presbyterian church and um and the pastor's wife got up and
00:16:47.940 read scripture before the service started and they were like oh it wasn't the service hadn't
00:16:52.100 started yet and he's like I you know me and my wife we got up and walked out of the room couldn't
00:16:55.820 be there it's like what a legend here's the thing what a legend if you had 15 percent of the male
00:17:00.920 Christian population who had that Joe Garrison dog in them right we wouldn't have any we wouldn't
00:17:06.120 have any women doing stuff in the shirt it would be fixed immediately we just need a few good men
00:17:10.940 if you want financial advice from a guy like that who's also quite frankly very good at it which is
00:17:16.180 very important joe garris is your guy backwards planning financial link in the description check
00:17:20.300 him out he's super good at it like he was literally showing me um there's a difference between uh tax
00:17:26.520 evasion and tax avoidance legal tax avoidance and he like there was a point where he was like
00:17:30.920 showing me and our nxr team he was like taking off his suit jacket he like he has um his company
00:17:37.200 not his name but his company embroidered on every single one of his ties and shirts yes so that it's
00:17:42.100 a company right there are levels to this yeah it's incredible there's a certain point i was like i'm
00:17:47.760 pretty he keeps telling me to do stuff like i don't have the time i was like yeah exactly like
00:17:51.280 some of the stuff i was like i need to see your 23andme because i'm pretty sure there's yeah
00:17:54.620 Ashkenazi here.
00:17:56.480 Yeah.
00:17:57.100 I mean, there's a sweet spot.
00:17:58.880 On the 23andMe, there's a sweet spot, a percentage where you get a little.
00:18:03.900 Yeah, you get a little bit, but actually not too little.
00:18:07.120 Because if you're like 10% Ashkenazi, then you're probably like saving money, changing the world.
00:18:13.300 Yeah, like fiscally responsible.
00:18:14.740 Yeah, it's awesome.
00:18:15.400 If you're a lot more than that, that would be a problem.
00:18:19.620 But also on the low end, if you find out you're 2%.
00:18:24.140 no then all of a sudden you get taken advantage of you might start writing articles about how
00:18:27.700 you care more about israel than vermont you know what i mean so the two percent is actually really
00:18:32.020 dangerous it's like the scots irish you want you know there's a sweet spot like i'm i'm somewhere
00:18:36.480 i think 25 35 in there which is like there's a little there's a fight in you you want to do
00:18:41.700 stuff and then there's like people who are much more like 90 like 90 yeah those people
00:18:47.860 they're constantly thinking about killing other the people around them and that is that's too
00:18:54.360 far so there's a sweet spot that's i can't believe you want a little french in you so
00:18:58.120 that's just you know you kind of like get that kind of the the poetry like the like sometimes
00:19:02.960 you need to have your borders crumble and be invaded oh no but that's too much
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00:22:15.360 What are we here for today, though?
00:22:17.040 We're here for Joel.
00:22:17.580 I mean, I'm having a good time.
00:22:18.760 And based on this conversation, I don't know how people could hate you,
00:22:21.780 but let's assume that some do.
00:22:24.180 They do.
00:22:24.540 For the sake of argument.
00:22:25.540 right for the sake of argument and where do we begin so actually going into this episode i chat
00:22:29.880 gpt'd you oh yeah cool and i was like why do people hate pastor joel webb and it was actually
00:22:34.180 pretty accurate i think really yeah he loves too much he gives too much he cares too much
00:22:38.940 yeah it was too kind to consider it too nuanced yeah that's what it is uh one of them is addressing
00:22:44.480 hot topics which i do want to get into but first and foremost i think in the reformed world
00:22:49.260 a lot of it has come because the media company plus who you've associated with yes that's a big
00:22:55.300 one uh and i'll be the first to admit uh sometime before it happened right you said hey we're gonna
00:23:00.880 interview nick fuentes i gave you guys a heads up yes and like and we've always been friends and
00:23:05.020 throughout that season i just want to say publicly you guys were super kind to me you never ghosted
00:23:10.460 me or you know just turned me off but there was a i think a very reasonable and prudent pause
00:23:17.020 of just like we love you but let's let's um we'd like to see how this one pans out you know like
00:23:23.280 like you're not just hosting nick but you're doing a 10-part series you know and uh but but
00:23:29.160 but with that because of our friendship um you guys you know you never ghosted me on the flip
00:23:34.880 side i gave you a heads up yeah hey i'm i'm gonna do this you guys should probably know
00:23:40.660 you might you know like the homer simpson thing you might want to like back into the bushes quietly
00:23:45.000 you know for for a second give it a minute um because i knew it would be controversial but at
00:23:50.600 the same time i just i felt like um i tell you all the time eric but like uh the back to the future
00:23:56.060 you know uh you guys weren't ready for that one but your kids are gonna love it and and that's
00:24:00.280 what i realized with nick is like there's bombastic rhetoric but rhetoric is different
00:24:05.120 than positions and i'm not saying that there's no wisdom involved in the way that we communicate
00:24:09.060 something um nick could be more wise i could be more wise but in terms of nick's positions
00:24:14.860 he's actually to the left of all three of us oh yeah oh yeah and that was apparent yeah my wife
00:24:20.600 uh he's not crazy my oldest son we're watching one of them they're like pastor webben is he's
00:24:27.140 way better than like he's way more to the right way more and i was like yeah i mean i i knew that
00:24:33.180 we kind of all knew going in that that would be the case but people are surprised by that i think
00:24:37.680 who yes who don't really understand the difference between those two things the rhetoric right like
00:24:43.160 mere controversy for rhetoric's sake, but also substantive positions. And they also don't
00:24:47.160 understand part of it is because they don't understand tactics, right? So there's principles
00:24:50.740 and substance and that matters immensely. It's invaluable, but there's also tactics and strategy
00:24:56.180 and how you employ certain information. And one of the things like the Clippers in the case of
00:25:02.040 Nick, so think about this for a moment. Nick, they, you know, a few months ago, they let him
00:25:06.700 hop on Spotify for, you know, he, he, I think he made it for like a full 24 hours before they banned
00:25:11.880 him again and and within that 24 hours he uh he topped joe rogan as number one really within 24
00:25:18.180 so people think like yeah nick is big but he's not the biggest uh yeah he's not the biggest because
00:25:22.940 he's not on think about that he's not on youtube he's just on rumble right yeah he can't have a
00:25:27.500 blue check on twitter um he's uh he's uh not on spotify he's not on apple imagine if he was on
00:25:34.540 all the platforms that tim pool or alex jones well alex jones is actually banned too but
00:25:39.180 temple daily wire whatever like he would be crushing the metrics on everything and but
00:25:45.260 because he's not my point is that like he's you know he's got this whole like team of clippers
00:25:49.620 and so because his his account can't post on these major mainstream social media platforms but the
00:25:56.420 clippers can so they're clipping them out and and that's like that's a double-edged sword right so
00:26:02.280 it's like the clippers make nick still have a public presence even though he's banned on most
00:26:06.980 platforms at the same time though clips are not always your friend right so like as we're talking
00:26:12.400 about why do people hate me well i think that's part of it so part of its associations part of
00:26:16.900 its uh things being clipped out of context and not me clipping myself and saying yeah that's a
00:26:21.400 banger but somebody else you know doing it an enemy that takes you know leave certain things
00:26:25.380 out of context and so one thing that people forget in the case of nick is that the first half of his
00:26:31.140 show is uh political geopolitical commentary and i i honestly think like i said and james white you
00:26:37.960 know lost his mind joel said nick fuentes is a political savant i think it was gone before that
00:26:42.240 of course he is of course he's a political savant um that's undeniable yeah that doesn't mean you
00:26:47.840 agree with somebody on every political position i didn't say he's a theological savant no he's
00:26:51.740 clearly brilliant right i didn't say he's a savant on marriage and family yeah but he is a political
00:26:57.260 savant um everything that's happening right now with iran it's like well it's not really trump's
00:27:02.320 fault like who could have known i love the tweet uh a 26 year old kid knew actually a year ahead
00:27:08.620 of time he said hey he's the iran war candidate yes nailed it and he was absolutely so so my point
00:27:14.100 is yeah but so half of it's that it's like an hour of political commentary uh but then then the second
00:27:19.440 hour that people don't realize it's stand-up comedy it's him you know roasting his own fans
00:27:23.840 So like the super chats and yeah, exactly. And so then those things go viral and, and I, you know,
00:27:28.900 I'm not Nick and I never, I couldn't be Nick, even if I wanted to, I'm not just saying, oh,
00:27:33.160 I don't want to because Nick blah, blah, blah. No, I actually don't have the charisma and the
00:27:37.060 talent. Nick is incredibly talented to be Nick, but I have certain aspects. I remember him telling
00:27:42.680 me privately, he said, Joel, whenever you, I know you have an agenda, you have ambition,
00:27:48.380 you have goals. You want to get out things that you believe are true, that glorify God,
00:27:52.480 that are good for his people. And I respect that immensely. I said, but never forget, it's a show.
00:27:58.020 He said, it's a show. And if you tame it, if you're, if you're too careful, is that it just
00:28:02.760 doesn't, it doesn't matter. The people that you're trying, that you bend over backwards in order to
00:28:07.240 win over, um, they're not, they're not even worth winning. He's like, you will win them eventually.
00:28:11.860 I took that to heart. Yeah. He's like, you will win them eventually because how do you win the
00:28:16.820 people who are kind of in the middle ground? You know, the way that you win them is you,
00:28:21.040 you win them by, by herd strategy. Those people,
00:28:25.020 you don't win by being careful and making sure that you're not saying anything
00:28:28.360 off-putting. Those people will fall in line. Um, when the, uh,
00:28:33.040 the winds of change shift, well, they get the memo.
00:28:36.740 When our people have cultural political power. Correct. Yeah.
00:28:40.340 It just happens.
00:28:41.240 I think I tweeted something about this 15 minutes ago. If I remember this,
00:28:44.800 you win by winning. Yes. Well, and I think part of it, Joel,
00:28:48.220 part of the challenge in the reformed world is the association so i i know as well as you do
00:28:55.020 that when that information came out that you were doing something with nick right it was a
00:29:00.720 combination of people it's the neoconservative establishment on the political right okay but
00:29:06.100 then also the i call them the church ladies but i i'm not just referring to women right in the
00:29:13.660 reform camp lost their mind now here's what's interesting to me about it and we've seen this
00:29:18.740 even recently you can have jeremy boring on your show who openly celebrates sodomy that's right
00:29:23.460 but you can't have a discussion with nick that's right so that's something i think for i had to
00:29:30.680 wrestle with that and some of our conversations were helpful so i guess explain to me your
00:29:36.180 rationale what were you thinking why is it okay to have conversations with people who don't agree
00:29:42.080 with i mean this should be common sense how are you how are you thinking through associations how
00:29:45.900 are you thinking because a lot of people do hate you specifically or there's a second part of this
00:29:52.160 so there is a difference between people's stated reason for hating a person and their actual reason
00:29:58.280 often but just taking the stated reason at face value right well he's associated with this person
00:30:03.820 and this person and this person and it is funny because you can go well hang on but you're a big
00:30:08.440 Canon press supporter. Right. Right. And you, but you were fine when they had the pro sodomy guy
00:30:13.180 on their show and when he went on their show and, and they did. And when it was on CNN and when
00:30:18.860 wall street journal did the thing, like you were fine with all of, right. So, so which, which is
00:30:23.440 it, but how are you thinking through those associations? Yeah. So I try to think in
00:30:27.480 categories. So that's the first thing that I think is vital for all Christians is best we can. We
00:30:32.520 want to try to think in categories. Um, and so, so I, I pastor our church in the North, uh, it's
00:30:39.720 North of Austin, uh, central Texas area. And, um, and the church is the church it's word and
00:30:45.840 sacrament. Uh, we stopped posting our sermons online because, uh, because I didn't want to
00:30:50.720 jeopardize members of the church. I'm insulated. Um, but you know, we have plenty of people who
00:30:56.220 work for fortune 500 companies, right? Like a lot of guys, there's a lot of tech industry in the
00:31:01.980 greater Austin areas. So we, a lot of the men in our church, they work for Apple, Oracle, Tesla,
00:31:07.080 those kinds of companies that, that, you know, may not be the biggest fans of Joel Webin. And so we,
00:31:13.500 we want to protect them. And so we just, the church we've, we've made obscure by, by intention.
00:31:19.600 And so, you know, people have to, it's, it's hard. It's, it's hard for people to actually find us.
00:31:25.180 And so the, you know, the church is healthy, but it's very private. And, and so the sermons are no
00:31:30.720 longer public. But my point in saying that is if they were, what you would find is the vast majority
00:31:36.800 of the sermons, and I mean like nine out of 10, they would surprise you. They're not what you
00:31:43.600 would expect. It's just exegetical preaching through books of the Bible. I mean, now, right
00:31:47.760 now, granted, we're going through the Gospel of Matthew. So naturally, it's, I mean, Matthew's
00:31:54.060 one of my favorite anti-Semites. You know, like other than Jesus, I think he would be in the
00:31:59.740 number one slot the book of matthew like obviously it's not anti-semitic in any um actual category
00:32:04.920 but by today's standards but by today's standards according to the adl or according to the antioch
00:32:09.840 declaration it absolutely would be i mean the book of matthew is just left and right every single
00:32:14.860 text is jesus telling a parable about um how he's going to rip the kingdom away from the jews and
00:32:21.480 incorporate the gentiles because they're stiff-necked and they're unbelief and this they
00:32:25.200 love money right but my point is like we're just going text by text it's word and sacrament that's
00:32:30.540 the church the church is and it's something i shifted in um i would still describe myself as
00:32:35.800 a general equity theonomist because i think that's um it's just the confessional you know
00:32:40.360 position that's westminster is the 1689 um just the general you know you you have the moral law
00:32:45.320 of god it's immutable immutable it's eternal and then the civic codes you you get down it's not a
00:32:50.180 one-to-one ratio from Israel to America 2026, but you're going to extract, you know, the moral of
00:32:55.560 the story, the general equity, and then with prudence and application, drop it down in whatever
00:33:00.220 place in time God's providence has put you. So in that sense, yeah, sure. But I've really shifted
00:33:06.300 in my theology over the last few years. And some of that, you know, I have to give credit where
00:33:10.880 credit is due. I don't know if he wants credit for me, but Stephen Wolf, who has also been very
00:33:16.600 kind. Um, but Stephen was right. You know, like there was a moment there, 2021, 2022, even, you
00:33:23.880 know, beginning of 2023, where it's like, worship is warfare, you know, and, and that sounds really
00:33:29.140 good, but it's actually kind of not, it's, it's, it's really not. You're saying it's not, it's not
00:33:34.680 actually true in the fullest. So Lord's day, when the church Ecclesiastes together, the excellent
00:33:38.980 ones and all the earth and whom my soul delights, um, it's actually not warfare. It's much more
00:33:44.160 likened to john bunyan and the delectable hills where you're actually out of the fray for a brief
00:33:49.400 moment you can catch a glimpse of the celestial city often in the distance where you're able to
00:33:54.160 be nourished by the shepherds of that region it's the market day for the soul where you gather many
00:33:59.500 goods um to to sustain you all week long when you actually are in warfare uh the church is it's a
00:34:06.640 reprieve it's a rest actually from the battle it's it's orienting ourselves towards heavenly life
00:34:13.440 and those things that pertain to the soul and not just civic matters and those things which are
00:34:17.700 eternal and not just temporal. We're reminded of the eternal truths of God that would be true
00:34:23.040 whether we were ever born or not, regardless of who's president or if it's GOP or DNC.
00:34:28.900 That is the church. And that was so good for me. That's a principal foundational theological
00:34:36.640 change that happened for me over the last two and a half, three years. It's been so good for me
00:34:41.480 because when I step into the pulpit, it frees me up to just preach to, instead of preaching to the
00:34:50.360 choir, preaching to the congregation, they already know these things. They already understand, like
00:34:55.100 the people in my church, in your church, they know that liberal women are the bane of American
00:35:00.820 existence. They know that usury is destroying Gen Z. They know that all of our foreign influence
00:35:09.800 and commitments is treason to true patriotic Americans. They know all these things. They need
00:35:16.860 to be reminded by those eternal things. And so the church is the church. Thinking in categories,
00:35:21.920 right response ministries, it's not a church. But at the same time, it's also not a for-profit
00:35:27.580 political organization. It's not a political PAC. It's not a 501c4. It's not a LLC. It's a 501c3,
00:35:37.840 charitable non-profit christian organization and so right response kind of you know gravitated as
00:35:43.600 i was making the this political evolution and realizing how important um the the civic realm
00:35:49.320 really is for christians to get involved um a lot of that was happening in in right response
00:35:55.360 ministries um and then i i kind of realized that i instead of a two-prong approach i really needed
00:36:00.300 a third avenue i needed a third leg and so you know so church word and sacrament the things that
00:36:06.840 eternal right and then 501c3 right response ministries um it's beyond the the four walls
00:36:12.880 of a local church but it still needs to emphasize theology and not culture and politics and you guys
00:36:18.640 are still doing that we're still doing that so we we put out two episodes uh on tuesdays and
00:36:23.200 thursdays every single week with right response and we publish articles um and we'll probably
00:36:28.380 eventually probably starting next year host um an event but make it smaller you know so instead of
00:36:33.700 going for you know a thousand two thousand whatever um it would probably be like four or
00:36:38.300 five hundred and we would probably host it in our church and get some different speakers but they
00:36:42.300 would predominantly be pastors you know and and not political you know pundits or or uh politicians
00:36:48.260 or anything like that like i wouldn't have alex jones uh speak at right response right it's just
00:36:53.940 it's not a good fit and i like alex but um but i wouldn't have him at right response nick fuentes
00:36:59.280 will never be an elder in my church god bless him you could have jeremy boring though he's
00:37:03.380 an ordained minister and that and that's that's the hypocrisy is he really he said that he was
00:37:08.020 online no he is he's he is an ordained minister yeah he officiates marriages uh-huh celebrated
00:37:13.280 sodomy ben did you know that jeff bezos just bought another yacht for his third wife why
00:37:20.080 would i need to know that because it just goes to show that we christians are giving our money
00:37:25.080 away to people who don't share our values like Jeff Bezos and Amazon. Look, I agree, but it's
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00:39:15.180 Is he a rabbi?
00:39:16.640 Is he which?
00:39:17.220 right well allegedly christianity but i think it's more i don't know if you guys have heard
00:39:22.340 of this there's kind of like a new novel hybrid of christianity it's called judeo christianity
00:39:26.200 i haven't really familiar with that yeah so it's kind of like christianity like you should write
00:39:30.220 about it right totally so it's it's really similar to christianity okay except um the only difference
00:39:35.360 is it's not christian at all and it's actually jewish so there's no right jesus christ is out
00:39:41.120 yeah of that well he's in but subservient to the modern state of israel now whatever team that is
00:39:48.200 i am not on that team yeah it's not a great team to be on i would rather not well because of the
00:39:53.480 hellfire but you could actually describe that not as christ team but as satan's team yeah you really
00:39:57.900 could you could almost you could almost say it's like it's not christ team but it's almost like a
00:40:02.060 like an anti-christ team like a sort of thing it's close it's just one qualifier before the
00:40:09.300 word Christ. Interesting. It just makes a slight difference. Interesting. Like there's Christ and
00:40:13.200 then there's antichrist and they're, they're almost the same. So at right response, you would
00:40:18.040 have like Christian, Christian ministers. Exactly. Christian speakers. That's right. Yeah. Jeremy
00:40:22.680 Boring would not be permitted at, um, at right response. Um, you know, to, to, you know, to be
00:40:27.700 a speaker, he, he could come to an event. We, we wouldn't ban him. Uh, but he wouldn't, he wouldn't
00:40:32.100 be, you know, somebody on stage that we would platform. Um, we would, uh, with right response,
00:40:37.340 we would predominantly stick to 100% Christians, but predominantly within the Reformed theological
00:40:44.620 strain. And I say predominantly because we have made some exceptions and probably will continue,
00:40:51.240 but not quite as much. So we got some flack in 2025 when we had Calvin Robinson at our
00:40:58.140 Right Response Conference last year. Is he Catholic, Joel?
00:41:02.300 Well, not really. See, that's the thing. So yes, he is lower KC Catholic. He's Anglo-Catholic.
00:41:07.340 But, but the tail is wagging the dog. So the Catholic piece is doing more heavy lifting than the, you know, the Anglican part. And that's, you know, and that's kind of a trajectory. So there was a moment where he's more Anglican and, you know, than he was Catholic. And now, you know, it would just be untruthful if I said, oh, he's barely Catholic. Like, no, I mean, the dude loves himself some Miriam dogmas. He's, I mean, you know, like, and, and even, you know, he hosts a show with us with NXR. And, and I love Calvin. He's, he's a dear friend.
00:41:35.240 um but he i mean he just calvin's personality he's like i i don't know if joel will like this
00:41:41.500 so i'm gonna do it even harder that's like which is part of what i love about him so it's like
00:41:45.740 even on his show it's like political commentary and he's like you know let's pause the show
00:41:49.620 and um let's just let's just uh bang a prayer out to mary real quick you know halfway through
00:41:55.920 it's like an interlude you know like he just like and i'm like dude come on um and we have
00:42:00.820 full editing power but we don't edit it because i just feel like that's cheap um i know who he is
00:42:06.640 despite who he is i asked him to to be on nxr but when he was at right response last year at that
00:42:12.240 conference um we asked for him to speak on islam taking over the west which he has experienced
00:42:18.200 firsthand he's from england and he was a perfect gentleman that's what he talked about he wasn't
00:42:23.380 throwing out you know uh throwing up some hell marys and things like that so he did what he
00:42:27.300 He didn't throw rosaries into the audience.
00:42:28.560 No, he didn't do that.
00:42:29.540 That's a Jack Osobiac thing.
00:42:31.380 So anyway, so he was great.
00:42:33.080 But my point is to say that, yes, right response from here on.
00:42:36.700 And that's kind of what that fueled the decision of we need this third prong, income, NXR,
00:42:42.520 New Christian Right, is, you know, we did the right response conference in 2025.
00:42:47.760 And I realized that part of what we were trying to do just wasn't really, I think, you know,
00:42:54.440 you could excuse it and you could give some nuanced explanations and,
00:42:58.020 and, you know, and, and maybe you'd be right, but it just optically,
00:43:01.340 it was,
00:43:01.960 it was starting to leak over out of the parameters that really should define
00:43:08.460 what right response is. Right response is distinctly not just Christian,
00:43:14.240 but reformed and theological. And it was becoming broader tint beyond
00:43:20.680 reformed and, and very much political. And, and I just, I started to feel convicted about summer
00:43:27.760 of last year and thinking, I don't know if, if that's what we should be doing. I could, I mean,
00:43:34.600 I could just sit there and refuse to apologize and, and tell all my critics that they're wrong,
00:43:39.880 but you know, sometimes your critics have a point and sometimes it's worth listening to your critics
00:43:44.600 and just saying, yeah, you know what, a 501c3 organization that actually has some legal
00:43:51.180 constraints and that started very much as a theological mechanism beyond just a local
00:43:59.160 church to speak to the church at large. That was our roots. That's what we set out to do.
00:44:04.980 We probably should get back to that. And so this has been long answer to your question,
00:44:08.880 but thinking in categories and then starting organizations and institutions categorically
00:44:14.400 has been really, really helpful for me and it's, and it's unburdened my conscience to where, yeah,
00:44:20.460 I'm going to have a lot of people who are mad, but, but I feel by the grace of God that I have
00:44:24.740 a clear conscience before the Lord and I'm not losing sleep. If NXR is going to host an event
00:44:30.460 with Alex Jones, or if NXR does a multiple part series with Nick Fuentes, because that's, that's
00:44:36.120 what it, NXR, what we're trying to do. And, and this is how you know it's hypocritical, right?
00:44:41.820 So some of the critiques towards right response, especially last year towards the end, as it was
00:44:46.880 becoming more political, I really gave ear to that. And that's why we started NXR in large part
00:44:52.480 and pivoted because I think some of the critiques were fair. In the case of some of the critiques
00:44:58.020 we're getting now with NXR, they're not fair. And this is how you know they're not fair because
00:45:02.200 the people who are making the critiques are literally Joel Webman is the son of Satan. He's
00:45:05.940 going to hell. He's a false teacher. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. And then their very next
00:45:09.580 post on social media will be borderline worship of charlie kirk now i think charlie kirk is in
00:45:16.780 the presence of christ i think he was a christian and i think he did a lot of good but here's the
00:45:20.800 deal um some of these things you just like the prudence is required you don't say this when
00:45:25.700 somebody's body is still warm right when they're freshly buried um but it's it's been a minute
00:45:31.120 it's been almost a year at this point um and so without being disparaging towards charlie kirk
00:45:36.580 without dishonoring him but still being truthful because christians need to put it into realistic
00:45:41.520 perspective um you may say that you you nxr is beyond the pale and this is inappropriate i can't
00:45:48.500 believe the people charlie cook um he platformed uh people who believe in three million gods
00:45:54.300 and also don't wear shoes uh vivek rama swami hindu am fest uh mormons who are going to hell
00:46:02.020 Glenn Beck, looking at you, not ethnic Jews, but Orthodox religious Jews who believe that Christ
00:46:08.640 is currently burning in hell, looking at you, Ben Shapiro. And that's AmFest. And you might say,
00:46:13.780 well, that's AmFest. That's different. Okay, fine. We'll go ahead and cede the point. Let's talk
00:46:19.080 about not TPUSA, but TPUSA Faith, which is a 501c3 explicitly Christian organization. And let's talk
00:46:26.100 about their crowning you know monumental event called the pastor's summit and not once uh but
00:46:33.660 at least two times and arguably a third they hosted an atheist at the pastor's summit not
00:46:40.180 for tp usa but tp usa faith namely james lindsey who who's that right is that a that's a male
00:46:48.580 female yeah so it is a man he's uh he's not very influential uh but yeah he's an obscure figure um
00:46:55.660 who you've probably never heard of.
00:46:57.340 I haven't.
00:46:58.140 Maybe this is why people haven't connected the dots.
00:47:00.520 Exactly.
00:47:01.060 But the point still remains, right?
00:47:02.840 You're exactly right.
00:47:03.760 Maybe the critique hasn't been levied
00:47:05.360 because nobody knows who he is,
00:47:06.640 but the point still remains.
00:47:07.940 If you're mad at NXR,
00:47:12.040 a for-profit LLC that is Christian
00:47:15.480 and unapologetically so,
00:47:17.500 but our main emphases and focus,
00:47:20.300 ambition is politics and culture.
00:47:22.140 If you're upset with us hosting Alex Jones,
00:47:24.900 who at least professes Christ.
00:47:27.860 He does.
00:47:28.780 And I'm not sitting here saying that Alex Jones has,
00:47:30.980 you know, like perfect theology.
00:47:34.300 But if you ask Alex Jones,
00:47:36.500 do you believe in God, the Father Almighty,
00:47:38.760 creator of heaven and earth?
00:47:40.440 Say, yeah, of course.
00:47:42.020 Of course, the globalists are trying to get us not to,
00:47:44.380 but of course.
00:47:45.060 And they say, and do you believe in Jesus Christ,
00:47:47.040 his son, born of the Virgin Mary?
00:47:48.680 And you're like, oh, of course.
00:47:50.040 Of course I believe in Jesus.
00:47:51.340 He's the only hope that we have.
00:47:52.840 like okay ask james lindsey ask james lindsey is amateur porn freedom oh wait i just gave away
00:48:02.360 that i know do you with your stepdaughter check out girls butts together and brag about it are
00:48:07.500 you boasting about the fact that you um you actually voted for hillary clinton um and and
00:48:13.780 that you're a leftist have you tweeted out i'm pretending to be a christian right i'm thinking
00:48:18.980 about pretending to be a christian just so that i can hoodwink my evangelicals into doing x y and
00:48:24.280 z yeah um again charlie kirk love him or hate him um but hindus mormons orthodox jews atheists
00:48:33.140 sodomites all all hosted so it can't really be the associations if we're honest it's not so
00:48:40.600 people say associates that's my point it's not and we know emphatically objectively definitively
00:48:46.300 that it's not so why is he heralded um not by by the world at large but by reformed christians
00:48:53.380 reformed christians who criticize me i'm telling you i'll watch them sola chad or like all these
00:48:58.800 you know five sola whatever you know i can't keep track of them all all of these accounts you know
00:49:03.680 insufferable reformed accounts online it'll literally be in in the same hour charlie kirk
00:49:09.380 love him what a christian martyr honor him joel weapon wolf in sheep's clothing and then they'll
00:49:16.120 mention the associations they'll mention the upcoming conference that i have as the reason
00:49:20.680 as the definitive proof for why i am a false teacher so they're they're not being honest
00:49:25.840 the real reason that they like charlie and not me is because at the end of the day by the grace of
00:49:31.100 god charlie i believe was a regenerate christian he's with the lord and he did a lot of good
00:49:35.120 but charlie was a moderate right that's why they like especially on key issues that are the the
00:49:41.560 the land, the same reasons that people would hate us or the reasons that episodes of ours have gone
00:49:46.860 viral and right wing watches clipped them. It's when you violate the blasphemy laws of liberalism
00:49:52.620 and liberalism, not just being the DNC, but the liberalism that a huge number of GOP voters hold
00:50:00.120 to a huge number of feminist, feminist instincts that are, you know, enculturated in people.
00:50:04.660 If you violate those blasphemy laws, then you will find out, you know, you'll find out what it's like to be hated.
00:50:13.140 So reformed Christians today will honor Charlie Kirk while demonizing me, not because Charlie Kirk was more faithful to Christianity, but he's a more consistent, faithful liberal.
00:50:23.380 That's why.
00:50:23.980 So it really comes down to liberalism. Because the other question, like TPSA faith is one thing to me. But the people who especially detest you, I think, are what we would call the pietists.
00:50:35.320 Yeah.
00:50:35.760 So this would be like the G3 crowd.
00:50:38.140 What's that?
00:50:39.320 Exactly. But for years, they also promoted James Lindsay.
00:50:44.080 Right.
00:50:44.900 And they had James Lindsay. I know you can get cute with it, you know, whatever. But I do want to tell the record straight and be honest.
00:50:53.040 um they had james lindsey it wasn't actually at their main event uh g3 conference but it was
00:51:00.360 adjacent like right next door as the the pre-conference okay okay um but but still it's
00:51:06.240 like this is a pre-conference event for g3 that that like their whole claim to you know credibility
00:51:12.720 is that they are the most consistent faithful pure reformed christians that have ever lived
00:51:18.420 read the scriptures, but worship hadn't started yet. Exactly. Yeah. So exactly. So yes, we had
00:51:23.740 an atheist speak at a conference, but, um, but that, you know, it's like the hobbits. It's like,
00:51:27.880 yeah, we, we had them at conference, but not at second conference. That was first conference,
00:51:33.300 but not second conference. Yeah. So I'm just wondering with the associations, like part of
00:51:37.800 what I'd love to do is get people to actually think through that more clearly. Um, so as you
00:51:41.520 move into something like NXR, walk me through categorically, like, what is it? Why are you
00:51:46.660 doing it? What do you hope it accomplishes? And why should maybe some of that crowd not be so
00:51:52.920 vitriolic in what you're trying to put together? I'm doing it because I have a wife and six
00:51:59.620 children and they're Christian and they're white. And because America is the last place and there's
00:52:05.780 nowhere else for us to go. So I'm doing it because temporal earthly life matters because God made
00:52:11.360 the world and the cosmos, the created order. And despite the fall because of sin, he still said,
00:52:18.980 knowing that this would take place, it is good. I'm doing it because there's still some good in
00:52:23.160 this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth saving. It's worth fighting for. I'm doing it because
00:52:28.540 my kids, who by the grace of God, they belong, I believe, to the new covenant in Christ by grace
00:52:36.100 through faith and will inherit eternal life they still have to live in this temporal world as
00:52:41.920 however long that is and i'm doing it because i realized that not only is the reformed theological
00:52:50.140 strain not an asset it's a liability how do you mean they are standing in the way of any true
00:52:57.440 revival and change that god might actually be willing if we cared and really wanted it
00:53:03.020 to give. The reformed world, it's not just a distraction. It's certainly not an asset.
00:53:11.260 I believe it is one of the greatest liabilities for winning back our country. They will hold you
00:53:18.020 down. It's like in Pilgrim's Progress, it's like there's so many characters who along this
00:53:23.520 pilgrimage would say to Christian, wait or slow down or come back with me. I'm a fellow pilgrim,
00:53:30.760 but, but you're going too fast, you know, and, and they're constantly trying to, to slow him
00:53:36.260 down in his journey, the reformed world. Um, it's, it's sad. I wish this wasn't the case, but, um,
00:53:43.400 we don't realize how in the big scheme of things, how utterly insignificant we are. Like people,
00:53:51.540 you know, it's so stupid. People are like, Oh, I used to listen to Joel Webin and then he ruined
00:53:55.960 his credibility by doing this or by doing that. And it's like, so what's the alternative? What
00:54:01.540 were you hoping for that? That I would keep my head down and be really careful so that 20 years
00:54:05.280 from now I might earn a breakout session at G3. Do you know how stupid that is? Do you know how
00:54:11.760 embarrassing that is? I'm not interested. I'm not interested in putting my head down. And maybe if
00:54:19.780 I'm quiet enough and careful enough and nuanced enough that I might get to lead a breakout session
00:54:26.460 at G3. How's G3 doing? How are they doing? Topped out at 8,000 people, that's nothing to scoff at,
00:54:33.300 and then gone. Gone. Like chaff. Have you noticed that the scriptures so many times when it speaks
00:54:39.280 of glory, it speaks of the weight of glory. Glory is weightiness. What are the wicked like? They're
00:54:43.980 not just wicked they're not just evil or sinister they're light it's a levity like chaff blown away
00:54:50.240 what are the righteous like they're like like solid evergreen oak trees that only bear fruit
00:54:55.440 and season but it's it's leaf never withers and they're deep and sturdy and rooted by streams
00:55:02.180 of water i want staying power and people think that well that's the opposite it seems as though
00:55:07.460 that's the opposite of what you're striving for because you're you're you're playing it loose
00:55:12.660 you're you're shooting from the hip you're um you're flying too close to the sun this isn't
00:55:18.360 what you do with staying power um yeah it's not what you do with staying power if you're looking
00:55:23.320 to to just be be the biggest kid on the block with the reformed church conference circuit
00:55:27.940 that's not what i'm interested in people are like i can't believe you know what a shame that joel
00:55:32.820 did these things he had so much potential so much potential for what for what to get to to have a
00:55:39.020 five-minute turn of driving the clown car that is the reformed world? Look at it just in a
00:55:45.160 standpoint of markets, right? Look at it from a business perspective. We represent maybe from
00:55:50.000 150 to 500,000 people in a country of 350 million. No one cares. No one cares. You want to see who's
00:55:58.200 winning? Like, let's just be honest. Look at the Supreme Court. Look at Congress. Look at this.
00:56:03.200 Of course, the Jews are winning, but beyond that, right? Israel is certainly winning. Beyond that,
00:56:07.440 catholics like what we're all posting you know as reformed christians yeah uh my ideal supreme
00:56:13.660 court and it's just you know like nine nine versions of uh clarence thomas you know um
00:56:17.900 well clarence thomas aside from being black aside from being conservative he's a catholic
00:56:21.740 catholics are winning in terms of elite capture of institutions correct producing political elites
00:56:29.040 but but catholics are actually um working harder and bearing more fruit and ensuring that not
00:56:35.420 heavenly life but uh that's in poor life and viability and protection for my four daughters
00:56:42.900 is secured my my daughters do not have uh reformed ministers of the pca to to think
00:56:50.320 they have clarence thomas and catholics in terms of political power too i would argue that
00:56:55.320 you're generally dispensationalist megachurch non-denominational world is also been quite
00:57:01.620 effective in producing political power for it because it has mass i mean that's the moral
00:57:06.340 majority kind of world it has mass to it but it also it's an it's an interesting dichotomy it
00:57:11.840 doesn't produce the type of elites that roman catholics produce no which is the clarence
00:57:15.940 thomas congressman because they have far more intellectual academic rigor it produces the
00:57:20.360 paula white it produces the the publicly socially influential type of character that is well it's
00:57:27.980 like the tp usa circuit basically the types of pastors that you would typically find there right
00:57:32.620 i mean but to circle back to the reformed world i think what's what is one of the most discouraging
00:57:37.900 realities that you can face and you really have if you want to be on if you want to you know how
00:57:44.080 to live today you have to face reality as it is you can't live in a world that's not really the
00:57:49.440 one that exists and that's what paul real quick that's what politics is and i think reformed
00:57:54.440 Christians, it's not that all Christians are allergic to politics. Reform Christians, I would
00:57:59.880 argue, are especially allergic because we rightly place such an emphasis on the theological, which
00:58:08.220 is our bread and butter. It's our foundation. It's the place where we hang our hat. But politics is
00:58:14.860 not the realm of the ideal. Politics is the realm of the possible. What can I do today?
00:58:20.320 And it leads us to create essentially types of magical thinking where we say, well, I'm going to invent a way that by merely getting the doctrine right, that itself, or merely getting the worship right, or merely getting the liturgy right, or all of these doctrinal, theological, heavenly oriented things, that by merely getting those things right, it will, through a mechanism I'm not really going to explain, magically solve the political issues of the nation.
00:58:50.320 Right. And it's all magical thinking. It's like, well, no, it won't. But but even in this is the discouraging thing to realize and something we have to face in the reformed world is just how much of the doctrine of the reformed world as it pertains to the to its application in some of the most important areas of life, like the ordering of the sexes and the ordering of political theory in our world.
00:59:14.740 just how much of our doctrine, our timeless doctrine, actually turns out to be a post-hoc
00:59:21.000 justification for post-war consensus liberalism. Politically, a post-hoc justification for
00:59:30.160 feminist ideals. Yes. And part of the reason why, though, to be fair, so it's like, well,
00:59:35.000 then why are you still reformed? Because it's a rich, lavish home with so many different
00:59:44.740 different resources and potential. The reason why the Reformed church today in the West and
00:59:52.000 in America particularly is so impotent is it's not because of Reformed theology. It's because
00:59:58.260 modern liberal Westerners walking around in a Reformed Christian skin suit, what they've done
01:00:05.700 is they've truncated Reformed teaching. So they opened up the Reformed toolbox, right? They went
01:00:12.080 and recovered all the reformed works and put them back into publication while editing out
01:00:17.040 some key things we know this reformed publishers be careful some of those books they they will
01:00:23.080 take out strip whole whole portions of it because it offends modern sensibilities but here's the
01:00:28.560 deal you open up the reformed tool chest did you know there's actually more to the reformed view
01:00:34.280 than simply soteriology but what owen strand and what you know these and they've looked at this
01:00:39.920 tool chest they found the the the salvation piece the auto salutis and they've taken that one tool
01:00:46.320 it's called a hammer and then they apply it to every single every single leg of the construction
01:00:52.080 project of building a house um so they will tell you look to the reformers for uh salvation but
01:00:58.620 don't look to them for political thought it's actually straight out of the tim keller playbook
01:01:03.040 by the way like if you read any of you know james davis and hunter you know to change the world any
01:01:07.800 that um it was all soteriology and then liberal political theory right that's basically what
01:01:14.520 young restless and reform i think devolved into real quick going back to the catholics um
01:01:20.300 this one hurts a little bit but but i i think it's fair and and we need to be aware so that
01:01:25.280 we can be inspired to to make whatever revisions we need to make and also to make as we're talking
01:01:29.980 about in terms of associations whatever alliances we need to make so i am more than happy and going
01:01:35.720 out of my way to partner with catholics i make no apology for that i'm not doing it in my local
01:01:41.220 church um i you're putting that in a like a political sphere yes categorically it's in x
01:01:47.960 in xr in in that category that's where we're partnering with catholics um and one of the
01:01:53.020 reasons why is because they're actually far more successful i think in large part and going back
01:01:57.440 to the evangelical thing so you can say the counter would be but no they're not look at
01:02:01.280 catholics and their voting pattern they're actually you know they're they're pretty milk
01:02:04.140 toast and they're liberal you know and blah blah blah um we've been lying we need to admit this
01:02:08.800 for a second we've been lying like for three years now with all the memes and all that you know uh
01:02:13.800 white evangelicals are the lone bulwark um how come we never bifurcate by race with catholicism
01:02:19.860 if you look at what's the data i don't know if you look at it um it's uh white evangelicals and
01:02:26.580 it's by far the most conservative because if you included black evangelicals that would not be true
01:02:31.300 They don't even, they usually say black Protestants is the other category.
01:02:35.580 So we'll say, we'll say mainline Protestants.
01:02:37.840 So that would be PC USA and, you know, all of these guys, Episcopalians, whatever, liberal Lutherans, Anglicans.
01:02:46.840 And so you have your mainline Protestants and you have a subset of that, black Protestants.
01:02:51.220 You have white evangelicals, which they sever not only evangelicals from mainline Protestantism, but then they do it by race, only the white evangelicals to show their voting.
01:03:00.440 and then they just catholics that's a massive category like we we're actually not being fair
01:03:05.440 we're saying well technically actually when it comes to our theological strain we're going to
01:03:09.740 be nuanced and we're going to bifurcate and we're going to distinguish but then catholics we're
01:03:13.580 just going to throw them up as a block now the reason why catholics are liberal in america when
01:03:18.040 you treat them as a block and you don't you don't do for them the same courtesy that we do for
01:03:21.780 ourselves it's because catholic is brown coated yeah it's hispanic it's because catholic catholicism
01:03:27.280 Roman Catholicism is religious globalism. Think about that for a second. So I would say that
01:03:33.580 Protestantism today has a Zionism problem. Catholicism has a globalism problem. That said,
01:03:40.560 the globalism problem to Catholicism is inerrant. It's actually baked into the pie. Whereas
01:03:46.420 Zionism, we know historically, is not inherently a problem for Protestantism because there was very
01:03:52.880 much a time where that was not an issue at all. So I believe that Protestants can actually rid
01:03:58.180 ourselves of Zionism. Catholics never can when it comes to globalism. Now, all Catholicism can
01:04:04.160 when the Bishop of Rome was simply that, a Bishop of Rome, he was a first among equals. The only
01:04:08.800 power he had over other regional national bishops was for settling disputes, right? A tiebreaker.
01:04:14.420 But now that he is the pontiff, the vicar of Christ, that he can speak ex cathedra,
01:04:18.500 the papal infallibility and these kinds of things so long as you have that and that is very much
01:04:24.420 rooted in catholicism and i don't see it going away certainly not anytime soon you now actually
01:04:29.060 have not a national but a global headquarters for catholicism which is why you can have a nation
01:04:34.460 like ours these united states of america that is being overrun right by a full-fledged islamic
01:04:41.060 invasion from the third world and yet still have an american pope speaking globally and spiritually
01:04:47.400 for the world and going around and kissing Somalians and encouraging Americans to welcome
01:04:52.560 them in. And so, so you literally, you cannot be Roman Catholic and be a true patriot and a
01:04:59.780 nationalist at the same time. But that said, if we're fair to our Catholic friends, and I want
01:05:06.980 to be fair because I have many Catholic friends and I appreciate them immensely, and I don't think
01:05:11.400 we win without them um but if i actually do bifurcate them um and it's not just a block
01:05:17.060 but it's white catholics heritage american catholics whatever you want to call it versus
01:05:22.280 hispanic catholics immigrant catholics and all that um the white catholics if we give them the
01:05:28.000 same courtesy as white evangelicals or the lone board white catholics are based so this is
01:05:34.440 according to pure research if you break it down into white catholics 61 of white catholics voted
01:05:39.760 for donald trump in 2024 it's still lower than evangelicals evangelicals is 82 however might
01:05:44.880 have been right this is interesting though yeah yeah but this is interesting if those are just
01:05:50.820 people who claim to be catholic if you go to white catholics who actually go to mass who actually go
01:05:56.920 to mass every week it's almost 70 voted for trump yeah the difference is that protestantism by its
01:06:02.460 nature it's able to say we are formally not going to be in fellowship with the main line we're
01:06:09.140 formerly not going to be in in fellowship with the heretical black protestantism we can actually
01:06:15.460 form a coalition that very much the doctrine and the conservatism the political conservatism
01:06:20.540 redeemed zoomers hardest they go together yeah right so you can actually gatekeep that to some
01:06:24.940 extent and and just say like okay when we talk about evangelicalism we're talking about not just
01:06:30.380 the sbc but the sbc and then everything after it right that's what we're talking about and everything
01:06:35.760 that is doctrinally and in practice the sbc just called by a different name it's you know that
01:06:41.000 you're non-denominational pull the mask off oh you're a baptist okay so you're a baptist right
01:06:46.120 that inherently is going to create a sorting that is very much a political sorting as much as it is
01:06:53.380 a doctrinal sorting because the it's also going to sort you into essentially the modern gop right
01:07:00.980 by by a super majority right because a lot of them these demographics are going to map almost
01:07:07.180 one-to-one when it comes to their views of israel their views of things like immigration and race
01:07:12.820 and you know the feminism and it ultimately even moral issues like abortion
01:07:18.340 they're just going to map that way roman catholicism by its nature it is one denomination
01:07:26.560 And white Catholics, if we go back to like white Catholics that regularly attend church, they are exceedingly pro-life.
01:07:35.440 They care about the unborn immensely.
01:07:38.240 But in terms of like voting for Trump, some of the political things, because abortion has become political, but it is first and foremost a moral issue.
01:07:45.800 And so they would be, you know, pound for pound, white Catholics that actually attend mass regularly would be very close to white evangelicals on the pro-life issue.
01:07:55.460 but when you do voting for trump by just you know to set the record straight i believe white
01:08:01.460 evangelicals are like 83 85 in terms of voting for trump whereas like you just read you got the
01:08:07.360 lower 70 70 71 or whatever for white catholics that regularly attend mass um that's my point
01:08:13.260 though is on those issues there is a disparity it's not it's not massive but there is a disparity
01:08:18.840 but part of the reason why is because even for the white based catholics who regularly attend mass
01:08:24.640 here in the United States, globalism is inerrant. It's not, I'm a globalist despite being a
01:08:33.520 Catholic. I am a globalist because I'm a Catholic. So Taylor Marshall is a friend. We've had him on
01:08:39.140 the show. I think he's a great guy and he's a big Catholic apologist. And he used to be reformed.
01:08:45.740 He went to Westminster, got his master's, all that kind of stuff. Really sharp and really kind.
01:08:50.960 james white hates him so you know he's a good guy um but he he even said like when when we talk
01:08:57.340 about immigration he's like um what kind of immigrants are they catholic right and so he
01:09:03.600 can't help himself because of his catholicism he's like we're being flooded by blacks and browns from
01:09:08.920 the third world he's like uh but at least they're catholic and the problem with this is the
01:09:13.540 fundamental error that it's that this whole way of thinking is making is that ethnic enclaves are
01:09:19.200 the ethnicity question and then the art which nationality are you right exactly what are you
01:09:25.540 are you hispanic are you black are you white are you those are actually going to be determinative
01:09:31.260 in a huge way of the politics of that person way more than do they tick the in the most broad sense
01:09:40.040 the the creedal christian or not right and and that also goes back to the um the the the you
01:09:47.400 the getting the christian thing first fixes everything else because it really doesn't no
01:09:52.200 it really doesn't when you know when i think about our neighbors here in ogden we have
01:09:56.120 a quickly growing hispanic population it is the reason that roman catholicism is bigger in ogden
01:10:04.740 than protestantism than anything like especially reformed protestantism like there's seven of us
01:10:10.260 in the whole state utah by the way is it ranks top 10 in h1b yeah so that that rome that hispanic
01:10:18.920 population is very roman catholic it's also one of the greatest enemies to my children's safety
01:10:24.380 and future yeah well and not just be and i'm not even talking about crime statistics or something
01:10:28.980 i'm saying because as a voting block we're talking about a very liberal that's right voting block
01:10:34.580 well the the other thing though mormonism is similar to catholicism in the globalist sense
01:10:39.300 yes because they mission you know send missionaries everywhere and so they're thinking just like this
01:10:44.160 week in utah as we're recording they're like we have all these tongans like these polynesian
01:10:49.280 peoples and yeah i mean they shoot each other at funerals like mob style there's the time we have
01:10:55.040 to call and swat every time there's a funeral they literally pre-call the police because there
01:11:00.360 was a mormon tongan funeral at a mormon ward and it got in such a big brawl and so many people were
01:11:06.740 shot it spilled over to the hospital they like had to shut down a hospital and call swat in
01:11:11.980 and that's mormonism mormonism said yeah we're why are they all here and i think part of the
01:11:16.800 reason is the mormon missions my assessment part of the reason the mormons do that is because of
01:11:20.720 their missions but then the question is okay and why do they do the missions globally and you know
01:11:24.780 and interracially such a big emphasis on reaching other people i think part of it is um at the end
01:11:30.280 of the day it's white guilt because the mormons i mean you can watch the old videos um the little
01:11:36.480 animated series and stuff like the moment the mormons were pretty hardcore on uh on the race
01:11:40.560 issue oh the mormons were active they're also i would say today though like they are so they're
01:11:46.340 making up for it they're the poster child for being a good liberal exactly yeah yeah that's
01:11:50.560 really interesting roman catholics i hadn't thought about it mapping quite that way with
01:11:53.600 with globalism and roman catholicism and elite formation but also some of the the intrinsic
01:12:01.020 segmentation that happens with the Protestant world and how that would produce kind of a thumb
01:12:06.780 on the scale when it comes to the, that really relates to other things that aren't just religious.
01:12:11.660 They're also demographic. Um, we're, we're running out of time in this episode. What I would like to
01:12:17.160 do, cause this is the people hate Joel Webman episode. If it's not the associations, if it's
01:12:23.020 not any of these other excuses, if it's not really, you know, that really that you're cringe
01:12:27.700 or people think you're cringe. If it's really that you violate with, like Leroy Jenkins energy,
01:12:34.420 the post-war consensus liberal order blasphemy laws, give us like three or five of these
01:12:40.620 views that you would hold or topics that you've addressed that really make people hate you.
01:12:45.420 And I know we're going to talk more about them in depth in the next two episodes, maybe,
01:12:49.600 but just as a summary, like what are the top three, five? I've talked about this. I believe
01:12:54.360 this about this issue here in in that you know that's the reason that people hate your face
01:13:01.140 yeah and can i just say alacrity joel levin patriot nationalist patriot i like that in the
01:13:08.780 suit you cut we were both national we were nationals i didn't make the video okay who
01:13:13.180 cut that in it wasn't nxr it was um it was just uh it was a non-account an non-account yeah what
01:13:19.280 what was Joel's? I think
01:13:21.280 so you were, he was like
01:13:23.060 nationalist. Nationalist. Yeah.
01:13:25.320 Mine was next level. Next level. And then
01:13:27.060 Alex Jones. And then
01:13:29.020 Moses. Moses.
01:13:32.140 That was so funny.
01:13:33.580 That was funny. Yeah. So views
01:13:35.120 that get you most hated.
01:13:37.460 Yeah. So this is another thing that's helpful
01:13:39.240 to think in categories. So every
01:13:41.240 institution, organization, movement, whatever
01:13:43.360 it is, even your
01:13:45.180 local church, every
01:13:47.220 group has a list of hundreds, if not even thousands of values, but a handful, only a
01:13:56.840 handful of priorities. So think values and priorities. You can value a thousand different
01:14:02.720 things. Like I valued prayer. I value missions. I value family worship in the home, catechesis.
01:14:10.620 I value sex with my wife. I value, you know, good food. There's a lot of things that you can value,
01:14:16.420 right um but you can only if you prioritize everything you prioritize nothing so every
01:14:22.880 movement has to um they have to hone in they have to narrow the focus a laser focus on what are we
01:14:30.500 going to emphasize prioritize and that decision i think if we're being wise that decision is not
01:14:38.200 made with a calculus of of what we actually out of our values what we value the most it's actually
01:14:44.080 made not in a timeless vacuum, but in a timely providential moment. So, so what, and looking at
01:14:52.220 the thousand values that Joel Webin has and deciding which of these, a handful, only a handful
01:14:58.060 will, will be promoted from mere values to priorities. I've, I've ultimately, I guess the
01:15:05.200 way I could say it is I didn't make that decision. I let the Lord and his sovereignty and providence
01:15:09.520 make that decision for me um everyone is living the christian life not in a vacuum but in as a
01:15:15.640 product of place and time and in my moment in my place and in my time i look and say um not what
01:15:23.040 is most important like the things i'm emphasizing i'm not convinced will be most important um for
01:15:29.460 christians 500 years from now right and they certainly weren't the most important things for
01:15:33.080 christians 500 years ago there would be no duh kind of issues you know you would be like why are
01:15:39.260 writing about this or talking about this? Of course. But they're things that are vital.
01:15:45.160 They're integral to our survival and by the grace of God, if he would be so kind, our success
01:15:50.520 today. And so we've landed on four pillars. The first one is nationalism. And in our case,
01:15:58.800 it would be Christian nationalism. So Christian nationalism. The second would be patriarchy.
01:16:04.800 The third would be race realism.
01:16:07.280 I'm not a racial determinist.
01:16:08.640 I believe that in the province of God, albeit slowly over time, multigenerational, the deck actually can shuffle.
01:16:14.840 It can change when it comes to demographics and when it comes to race.
01:16:19.420 So I actually am not of the persuasion.
01:16:21.560 I think that God wrote a book.
01:16:23.360 Noah's in the book.
01:16:24.660 And God's speaking through Noah and this prophecy and blessings and cursings for his three sons.
01:16:29.760 It's like I'm an old-timey Bible believer.
01:16:33.100 So if the Bible says it, I believe it.
01:16:35.800 But I don't actually believe that the promises that were given and curses, subsequent curses given by God through Noah, that they have to be etched in the stars.
01:16:45.120 So I'm not fatalistic.
01:16:46.520 So I would say I'm not a racial determinist.
01:16:49.440 I do think that European peoples, both by, there's a lot here we're going to talk about in the third episode, but it's multifaceted.
01:16:59.760 Okay, so one, you have the prophecy of Noah.
01:17:02.780 Two, you have the spiritual side.
01:17:04.920 Because of that prophecy, I do believe the sons of Japheth stayed more pure in their worship, right?
01:17:10.860 The culture, the Latin word cultus, worship to the triune God than these other two brothers, especially in the case of Ham.
01:17:18.820 But three, providentially, where they landed, right?
01:17:21.760 So high time preference, low time preference.
01:17:23.720 Are you closer to the equator where every day looks the same?
01:17:26.220 Are there harsh winters where you have to think ahead, you have to plan ahead,
01:17:29.500 And it's going to cull the population based off of intelligence and IQ, because if you're
01:17:34.080 dumb, you're not going to make it, right?
01:17:35.360 We've all heard the parable of, you know, the ants and the grasshopper, you know, and
01:17:39.160 those kinds of things.
01:17:40.180 And so there's just a reality there.
01:17:42.160 So you're in northern tribes versus, you know, close to the equator in sub-Sahara Africa
01:17:47.240 over the course of a couple thousand years.
01:17:50.220 Also, you're the sons of Japheth and you worship the triune God versus worshiping demons.
01:17:54.980 That's probably going to have an impact because religion speaks to everything.
01:17:57.940 every major world religion has dietary restrictions right what you can eat nutrients who you can marry
01:18:03.780 which one allows you to drink cow pee right it's not christianity okay i just wanted to make sure
01:18:09.840 that i didn't have that because i've been drinking water this right exactly yeah and so you know so
01:18:14.280 we appreciate yeah you know but um but vivek ramaswamy or or vivek vance we're gonna go there
01:18:21.840 second episode yeah we'll go there we'll get there um crazy wild but the point is uh race
01:18:27.900 realism is is how i would describe it uh to to go to each one of those points the christian
01:18:32.820 nationalism patriot biblical patriarchy masculine leadership and then we'll get to the fourth but
01:18:38.000 then right now is the race realism yeah in each point i guess this is part of what brian was
01:18:43.060 saying and what you're saying as well each one of them is wildly offensive to the post-liberal order
01:18:47.820 That's right. So the race question is because of multiculturalism. That's right. It's very offensive to that patriarchy would be things like feminism and egalitarianism, Christian nationalism, as opposed to globalism.
01:18:59.920 Yes, exactly. And borderless free trade.
01:19:02.200 So here's kind of the point, though, I think that that is worth just hammering home.
01:19:07.460 People who are Christians and reformed Christians will disagree with you on those points.
01:19:12.060 They will phrase it as though they disagree on gospel centered type issues.
01:19:17.180 But it's really an external theological apparatus that is driving their vitriol.
01:19:22.060 Would you agree with that?
01:19:22.880 Yes.
01:19:23.220 And importantly, and we'll get to the fourth one.
01:19:25.740 importantly on the issues that you're laying forth you often and and we get in trouble for
01:19:31.540 the same reason align much more closely with our reformed forefathers that's right than they do
01:19:37.460 a hundred percent like but and it's not even close yeah more closely than they do by comparison
01:19:42.340 that's that's um undeniable uh yet at the same time to to my own shame i have to admit that
01:19:47.920 our reformed forefathers many of them would be disappointed in me for for being uh to the left
01:19:54.040 of them my views on race um are um are liberal i have to admit like i am a liberal and that's
01:20:01.920 something i pray about because i cut it because i feel cut it out i feel committed about that
01:20:05.800 you know like and and so i i want to make sure uh because what we're doing is we we are all
01:20:11.020 picking and choosing that's what we're doing and the reform modern reform guys have been doing that
01:20:15.240 forever they picked the reformers soteriology and chose to discard everything else that they
01:20:21.580 everything else now now but what i'm doing i want to be fair um and view yourself with sober
01:20:27.240 judgment what i'm doing is i'm just picking more i'm opening up that reformed um heritage tool
01:20:33.440 chest and i'm selecting more of the resources out of it than owen strand but i'm still not
01:20:39.160 taking it wholesale i am actually disagreeing with george whitfield i'm actually disagreeing
01:20:43.960 with dabney i'm what in particular um like i i think that black people in america should be able
01:20:48.480 to vote. And that's, that's, that is a liberal view. And, uh, and I just have to admit that my
01:20:54.520 reformed fathers, um, would, would say that at some level, uh, that I am exercising racial
01:21:00.780 egalitarianism and they might be right. Joel Webb, the reason that everyone should hate Joel
01:21:07.060 Webb and apparently it's cause he's a huge lib. Correct. Correct. So what's the fourth,
01:21:11.740 what's the fourth pillar? So the fourth one is, um, as I etched this one out at first,
01:21:16.560 it was easy just to call it anti-zionism um but but i have to be you know so christian nationalism
01:21:22.640 nationalism over globalism right and then patriarchy over feminism um and then you have uh
01:21:28.240 race race realism not essentialism so i think religion trumps race i'm a christian um there
01:21:34.680 are things more important than race it's not everything it's also not nothing it's real yeah
01:21:38.460 but it's not everything um and here's the deal dude we have a biblical category for this right
01:21:42.760 So spiritual training is of eternal value.
01:21:45.820 And therefore, physical training is of no value.
01:21:48.680 Of course not.
01:21:49.520 It's of some value, right?
01:21:51.060 So doing the same thing with race.
01:21:52.720 We're not going to make it everything.
01:21:54.140 But in our Western modern time, we have to admit that 99.999% of Christians have made it nothing.
01:22:01.400 And that was probably a bad call.
01:22:03.360 And then this last one, anti-Zionism, as I've shaped this a little bit more, this is how I've landed.
01:22:08.560 It's not anti-Jew, okay?
01:22:09.940 um i you know one of my best friends in the church is actually it was funny um you know he
01:22:16.720 came to me like six months ago and you could tell like he was uneasy um and uh and he told me like
01:22:23.320 that he's um he's a quarter ashkenazi and uh and i like gave him a big hug and i was like dude
01:22:29.940 you're my brother in christ you love jesus you're more anti-semitic than i am you know we've had
01:22:36.240 these conversations you're good man you're good this is not this is not a blood guilt thing this
01:22:41.400 is that that's you know that's not my view and you know he's like phew um but he's been sweating
01:22:45.460 because we're going through the book of matthew and matthew's pretty intense on the jewish
01:22:48.700 religious leaders um but anti-zionism really doesn't cut it it's so it's not anti-jew um but
01:22:54.100 it's also not only anti-zionism uh the way that i verbalize it now and i think that this is the
01:22:59.580 most accurate, is I am against Jewish supremacy in non-Jewish places. So I'll say it again.
01:23:08.300 Every word matters. I am with vitriol and with great passion and zeal. I am angrily against
01:23:19.340 Jewish supremacy in non-Jewish places. And what I mean by that is that for my five children with
01:23:26.240 the six now on the way um larry ellison is a far greater threat than massad it's it's it's not just
01:23:36.200 uh the idf or bibi netanyahu or um you know the the government of the modern nation state of
01:23:43.000 israel that you know that pulls us into wars that's true that happens i'm marco rubio who
01:23:48.240 is a zionist came out and admitted it maybe it was a foydian slip but you know he said that on
01:23:53.140 national television yeah like we we decided to bomb iran because we knew that if we didn't that
01:23:57.540 israel do it and they would be more aggressive and then that would get the reaction of iran and
01:24:03.200 we have these close military bases and more american you know soldiers military would die
01:24:07.400 and i appreciate his honesty you know whether that was on accident or on purpose
01:24:11.360 so that i'm not to say and saying it's no threat that the nation state of israel and higher ups
01:24:16.580 and government officials are no threat to my nation but what i'm saying is that it's not just
01:24:22.440 that. When you think of Jeffrey Epstein, when you read the Epstein files, the portions that
01:24:29.100 have not been redacted, the overarching theme throughout all of it is a disdain for non-Jewish
01:24:35.620 people ethnically. The goyim, the cattle, that we literally exist. They're subhuman.
01:24:42.040 Exactly. We literally exist simply to serve those who are ethnically, not even religiously,
01:24:47.760 but ethnically jewish and so jewish supremacy and the reason i say non-jewish places if i go
01:24:53.800 and visit uganda which i don't plan on doing anytime soon but um but i'm sure they're wonderful
01:24:58.200 people made in the image of god certainly but if i if i did if i visited uganda and and i went to
01:25:04.100 15 different churches in a common theme that all of them voices we believe that our country and
01:25:09.800 our people that ugandans are the best people in the world like we are um we are ugandan supremacists
01:25:16.280 i actually would respect that you know what i mean like game recognizes game dude i sir i
01:25:23.000 apologize i did not know your game i was not familiar i wasn't familiar with like that that's
01:25:27.020 actually respectable you know what i mean i find that endearing these people love their people
01:25:31.220 believe in their people um and and likewise if heritage americans now i i don't describe myself
01:25:38.000 as a white supremacist um and at one because i don't think it's it's tactful i think it's suicide
01:25:43.140 um two because i'm actually not this is another area where i'm a lib um if people are going to
01:25:48.540 literally they're going to hear this and cringe um i i might be currently in the year of our lord
01:25:53.300 2026 i might be an asian supremacist i knew it i might also actually be a jewish supremacist
01:25:59.880 are you going to start collecting samurai swords yeah i'm wearing kimonos because
01:26:04.900 i've heard rumors that like every night joel watches the last samurai my thing is i'm not a
01:26:11.900 lib but my most lib tendency is that i think that actually is cultural appropriate appropriation
01:26:17.500 that i don't believe in yeah so just please draw a line there okay i'll let you be an asian
01:26:23.000 supremacist because i'm sure you have dressing up as i can't just don't put on the kimono what if i
01:26:29.360 just take like a little bit of scotch tape and start putting i will unsubscribe i'll unsubscribe
01:26:34.100 yourself the master of the blade have you guys seen that one meme where it's like this little
01:26:37.960 Asian kid walking with like an older Asian man. And he's like, dad, is it true that all Asians
01:26:42.160 look alike? And he's like, I'm not your dad. I'm your neighbor. I told this joke to Ben Garrett
01:26:47.980 on Haunted Cosmos. And his biggest L is that he didn't get the joke. It's so funny. It ruined my
01:26:53.940 moment. I planned for it. I'm your neighbor. I'm your neighbor. So Jewish supremacy and non-Jewish
01:27:01.100 places. What I mean by that is you kind of have to pick a lane. This is so vital for people to
01:27:06.080 understand um you're either zionist um in which case the whole idea of zionism if you get back
01:27:13.440 to it um not not just religiously with some of the rabbis and some terrible things that they
01:27:18.180 that they wrote but you actually get to the modern expression in in the 20th century of zionism
01:27:23.480 1948 and the induction of the nation state of israel and those kinds of things and the reasoning
01:27:27.480 behind it was um jewish people have been kicked out of you know 109 countries here's to hoping
01:27:33.140 for 110 you know i'm just kidding uh but like but you know we fall on hard times we've been
01:27:37.240 historically persecuted time and time again and anti-semitism we need a place of our own we need
01:27:42.060 a place of our own and it actually has to be a formal you know um organized political place a
01:27:46.600 nation state because um people groups are not allowed to have militaries but countries are
01:27:51.020 right and and i actually here's the thing i might be a zionist if that's what zionism means
01:27:55.560 i'm i'm not against that now i probably would have opted for madagascar instead of
01:28:00.140 right in, you know, plop down in the middle of a sea of Muslims where we would have to foot the
01:28:03.620 bill, you know, for all their missiles and all these things for eternity and Americans become
01:28:08.120 a tax farm of Israel. I'm not a big fan of that, but the idea of them somewhere having a place of
01:28:13.140 their own, I'm actually for that. But here's the deal. Either Western countries are super duper
01:28:19.580 anti-Semitic and Jews are in danger, in which case we did this at great cost, continual great
01:28:26.640 costs. We made you a place. Go there and thrive. Or actually, we're perfectly safe in Western
01:28:35.000 countries, which is why more ethnic Jews live in America. Did you know that? More ethnic Jews live
01:28:40.520 in America than Israel. And we live in America because we're actually billionaires and we're
01:28:45.300 able to exploit through usury heritage Americans and your people. And we actually like it better
01:28:49.800 here because we can prosper off of you in a way that we can't somewhere else. So here's the deal.
01:28:54.260 can you be an ethnic jew in america yes can you be an ethnic jew who holds tightly to jewish
01:29:00.800 supremacy and is calling americans goy and and whether it's through being the owner of uh only
01:29:07.160 fans or whether it's through exorbitant forms of of usury and financing burritos or whether it's
01:29:11.640 you know uh pornography and all these can you be a a jewish supremacist jew in my country using
01:29:19.520 wicked mechanisms to disparage and and oppress my people i would say that that's wicked that's
01:29:26.360 absolutely wicked and you should go home right my people have bled out and died in the sand for
01:29:33.540 decades so that you would have this home that by your own volition your own admission you had to
01:29:39.480 have because we're so we have so much jew hate so pick a lane uh i'm not actually against that's why
01:29:46.700 kind of stop saying anti-Zionism. One, because it's more specific and widespread, but two,
01:29:51.420 because I might be a Zionist. I actually support a place for Jews to go, especially those who are
01:29:57.900 Jewish supremacists like Epstein, so they're not raping our daughters here in America.
01:30:03.620 So Zionism, like sign me up. I love it. I love it. Zionism all day long. Go home. And for guys
01:30:11.860 like my friend in my church who are ethnic Jews but are not Jewish supremacists and love Americans
01:30:17.060 and religiously speaking, their allegiance is to the Lord Jesus Christ, they're Christians,
01:30:21.980 then stay. And I'm glad you're here. But that anti-Jewish supremacy in non-Jewish,
01:30:29.100 so back to the Ugandan example, if I visit Israel, which I won't because I think they
01:30:33.080 would kill me, but if I ever visited Israel, and same thing as the Ugandan example, and there
01:30:38.720 in that context they were like our people are the greatest people on earth we love our people
01:30:42.780 game recognizes game you know like i would not be offended but when you're in my country as
01:30:48.920 an extreme minority but all of you are serving in congress all of you are making the political
01:30:53.920 decisions for the direction that my children will have to face and exploiting my people
01:30:58.140 economically and financially through exorbitant forms of usury and and suppressing free speech
01:31:03.080 because Larry Ellison now owns 75% of TikTok
01:31:06.380 and this, that, and the other.
01:31:07.920 And you're still a Jewish supremacist?
01:31:10.960 Get the hell out.
01:31:12.480 Well, and it's like there are many ethnic groups
01:31:15.940 that are later comers to America, right?
01:31:18.840 Even European, they're later comers from European nations.
01:31:22.320 Irish, Italians.
01:31:23.280 Yeah, exactly.
01:31:24.200 We're talking like it took a couple of world wars
01:31:26.300 and a depression to integrate
01:31:28.380 and have essentially a more American identity
01:31:31.440 than, than German or, you know, some other European identity. And, and the reason you go
01:31:36.860 like, why do we talk about the Jews from time to time here in King's hall? We've been, we've been
01:31:40.540 known occasionally to publish a book about the, the, the covenant people of God and whether it
01:31:45.400 is the modern nation state of Israel and that sort of thing. And, and the, when it comes down to it,
01:31:50.240 you say, well, like, why, why would it be higher on your list to point out the ethnic component
01:31:55.540 of the Jewishness versus maybe some other group
01:31:59.460 that's a later comer or a smaller minority.
01:32:02.420 I would say, well, when you,
01:32:03.760 for the same reason that I was willing to particularize
01:32:07.620 and say black American culture has this problem.
01:32:12.040 And it's because demographically speaking
01:32:14.560 or statistically speaking,
01:32:16.140 in terms of their action and outcomes,
01:32:17.740 you're looking at a group that though they're a minority,
01:32:21.260 they have an outsized effect in the most specific
01:32:25.320 and tip of the spear of policies that make it a possibility that my children won't have a country
01:32:30.680 correct so the final thing i know we got to land the plane but all four of those and this is back
01:32:34.380 to your point of they all have in common against the post-liberal order um what i would say is and
01:32:40.260 like i said you know you have all your values the lord our job is not to choose but really just to
01:32:46.180 listen and to listen to the lord speaking not just through scripture but through providence
01:32:50.660 and so looking to the lord's providence and and not by um not by like what what are my values are
01:32:58.180 the most important in a timeless fashion but what are the most urgent so it's need based it's
01:33:03.760 necessity that i think ultimately separates the priorities from all the rest of the values
01:33:08.420 and so i'm looking at that and i've narrowed it down to four the four pillars and what they all
01:33:14.000 four have in common is that they're against liberalism so i so i'm saying i think that
01:33:18.640 liberalism is the greatest, most pressing threat for Christianity in the world today, in our
01:33:26.740 generation. So I think liberalism is the greatest threat. And I liken liberalism to the vehicle,
01:33:32.340 the car. But if you open the hood, the engine of liberalism is egalitarianism. So the one
01:33:37.600 common denominator really to put more verbiage on it specifically is Christian nationalism.
01:33:43.040 nationalism over globalism is anti it's anti-egalitarian right um it's it's going against
01:33:49.320 um international egalitarianism yes all countries are not the same and they're not all equal same
01:33:55.300 with patriarchy because they're not all the same um when you have uh distinctions distinctions
01:34:00.300 necessarily create disparities and disparities form uh naturally form hierarchies there are there
01:34:06.740 is a national hierarchy right we used to be at the top i would say the 90s and early 2000s was
01:34:12.000 kind of our peak, the Strait of Hormuz and what's going on with Iran. One of the things that that's
01:34:16.500 proving is that we actually don't have near as much power in the world as we once did. We have
01:34:23.600 to recognize that America as a military empire actually peaked and we are on the decline. We
01:34:29.220 don't actually have the strength that we once had. But the point is a hierarchy still exists. Now,
01:34:33.840 I don't think we're at the top of that hierarchy anymore, but we're certainly one of the world's
01:34:37.360 superpowers we're in the top i would say the top three or four um i would say three russia china
01:34:42.620 uh us and the fourth the only reason i leave that door open is i think within 20 to 30 years that
01:34:47.440 israel will be a fourth superpower and it will be be because of us we are laying ultimately what
01:34:52.580 we're doing if you think of you know the purpose of the system is what it does uh what we're really
01:34:56.860 doing is we are suppressing iran i'm no fan of iran uh certainly not you know they're iranian
01:35:02.320 people that's a different story but the regime there that's you know sharia law and radical
01:35:06.460 Muslims and all those kinds of things. But Iran, you have to recognize politically, geopolitically
01:35:11.620 in terms of strategy, they are really the only check and balance to Israel. And by suppressing
01:35:17.200 them with missile after missile after missile, what we're doing is we're allowing Israel to have
01:35:22.300 reprieve. They can go after Lebanon. They're going to eventually, mark my words, it'll be Egypt. It'll
01:35:26.420 be Turkey. They're clearing the slate and wouldn't be able to do it if it wasn't for us, which is so
01:35:31.500 wicked and and and we are going to have so much regret the world we are creating that our children
01:35:36.780 have to live in for a greater israel project for them to secure a hegemony and a place that
01:35:42.480 strategically in terms of trade routes in the middle east will be uncontested it will have
01:35:47.140 it will have economic power that we cannot even imagine and i believe within 20 to 30 years time
01:35:53.520 because of the united states and our insufferable zionism that we are creating we already have
01:35:59.380 china and russia to deal with a fourth superpower that will rival us and on that national hierarchy
01:36:04.640 we will actually be demoted once more so nations egalitarianism nationally speaking is a lie then
01:36:11.420 you get to the patriarchy sexual egalitarianism is a lie then you get to race realism not
01:36:16.900 essentialism and not determinism but realism racial egalitarianism is a liberal project it
01:36:22.820 is a lie and then the last one the reason why i changed from anti-zionism and i specified anti
01:36:28.980 not anti-jew but anti-jewish supremacy in that last prepositional phrase qualifying the statement
01:36:35.080 in non-jewish places is because what i don't want to do here is actually concede frame so i have the
01:36:41.480 first three points are against egalitarianism but then the last one is an insistence upon it
01:36:45.860 my big problem with jewish supremacy is um that no one's better than anyone else you see how that's
01:36:51.920 gay yeah that's actually the seating frame um uh and and to do it just because it's popular because
01:36:57.440 right now it is kind of cool to criticize israel and those kinds of things um no the problem with
01:37:01.940 jewish supremacy is jewish supremacy in my country as an extreme minority that goes over and against
01:37:07.760 the interest of my um my my native people um if ugandans uh hold to ugandan supremacy in uganda
01:37:15.160 you know to me and you're probably budgeting for this i guess i would thread the needle on that
01:37:22.040 last one more like jewish values too yes yes jewish yeah having you should assimilate you
01:37:30.120 should assimilate and not and i mean that like as a as an objective fact the express like what
01:37:35.300 what actually are the values of the modern jewish people in america right they're all
01:37:40.500 antithetical and they're very very antithetical to the safe existence of my children abortion
01:37:45.280 is abortion pornography usury globalism endless middle east war like these are all
01:37:52.180 they're all yeah fundamentally a hatred for western christendom i'm just thinking
01:37:56.780 you know for my own their biggest value is egalitarianism but but they don't actually
01:38:02.240 believe it right so in many such cases well this is yeah this goes back to kind of the the paleo
01:38:07.800 cons pointed this out egalitarianism nobody actually believes in it it's a political tool
01:38:12.860 yes for them to gain power right exactly so jews have always whether it was lgbt you know um or
01:38:19.500 whether it was um civil rights and and uh and blacks or whether at every single one of those
01:38:25.620 movements in american history and they brag about it right so this is right some no their leverage
01:38:30.320 points to actually accomplish on the forefront of that you know whether it's martin luther king
01:38:35.140 it's the destruction of the christian hegemony of the white protestant christian hegemony in
01:38:39.340 And they do it because fighting for any minority in America actually serves them because they are one of the minorities. So making America a more tolerant, more inclusive, more welcoming place for minority groups is helpful for them. And I don't even despise that because I actually, I actually, again, game recognizes game. I respect a people that cares about their people. I just wish my people did.
01:39:02.220 And I would, importantly, I respect the people who care about their people, provided their people aren't doing evil things in service of evil values.
01:39:11.720 Like if the Ugandan said, we're the greatest in the world and, you know, and our deepest goal is to go full Aztec and we're going to build a big pyramid.
01:39:19.300 It's going to be the greatest pyramid ever.
01:39:20.800 And we're going to be, you know, cutting people's hearts out and throwing their bodies down.
01:39:25.980 And we're going to be the best set in the whole world.
01:39:27.420 I would say, I wouldn't say game recognizes game.
01:39:31.360 I would say Cortez, get my helmet. Like it'd be more of that. So to me, it's not even just like
01:39:39.060 a supremacy particularization issue. It's also just in its objective factual expression, what
01:39:45.000 do you believe? And how do I know what you believe? Because what are you doing? What are
01:39:48.440 you attempting to do? So those are the four priorities. Again, I would say selected by the
01:39:53.440 Lord through providence. Not in terms of most important and in all places in all times, but
01:39:59.080 most urgent and necessary today. And, you know, I can imagine a boomer listening to this and
01:40:04.400 talking about Islam as, you know, catnip for boomers. And like, well, why isn't that, you
01:40:09.680 know, one of the, you know, a fifth pillar or something. And the reality is, again, looking
01:40:13.680 at providence, just it's undeniable. The fact remains that there have been throughout the last
01:40:21.000 1400 years, there have been whole swaths, whole centuries where Islam was a far greater threat
01:40:28.000 to christianity and to the west and jewry than it is right now and and with islam um i islam is the
01:40:36.360 broom of judaism right jewish rabbis say this explicitly um again this isn't a conspiracy
01:40:41.880 theory this is something that they didn't just let the tongue slip it's something that they
01:40:45.680 actually boast of islam is the broom of judaism meaning that it's being used um to sweep sweep
01:40:53.860 clean the playing field and at the end of the day uh you have right-wing jews you have left-wing
01:40:59.440 jews here in america and right-wing jews push for war where we displace muslims like the muslim
01:41:06.760 problem in america is because the muslims are in america well christian nationalism covers the
01:41:12.220 muslim issue the somalians in minnesota are a direct result of the conflict from 20 years ago
01:41:17.700 exactly and the mayor in minneapolis is the jewish jacob fry that's right so it's it's um jews on
01:41:25.380 in right-wing politics in america that push for war that displaces muslims in the middle east
01:41:29.860 and then jews and left-wing american politics push towards pro-immigration policies that bring
01:41:36.000 them as refugees here if you want to deal with islam and i do we published a whole book calvin
01:41:40.600 robinson wrote it the silent jihad islam taking over the west it is a problem but i would rather
01:41:46.080 go to the source of the stream i would i would rather actually deal with it um at the source
01:41:51.460 and the reality is um that that our unsavory alliance and letting our guard down when it
01:41:57.860 comes to jewish supremacy in non-jewish places our country is what is perpetuating and holding
01:42:03.880 open the gates of toledo to make this islamic problem a local domestic problem so that's it
01:42:09.360 so based on all that joel i'm not sure why people would still have a reason to hate you
01:42:12.880 or even disagree i think we found the real reason that people don't like joel weapon and it's
01:42:17.420 because he can't give short answers no that's a question no that that is that's a real and with
01:42:23.640 that we are out of time for this episode joel thanks for joining us here in the case hall
01:42:27.660 of course we've uh we've had a good time thanks for being my friend joel yeah thank you and we
01:42:32.660 appreciate we appreciate the bond villain energy yeah well somebody is it like dude so many things
01:42:39.400 you don't get to decide the Lord determines and uh just play your role you gotta play your role
01:42:44.120 you lost like 40 something pounds so I can't really say it like I used to be able to say it
01:42:48.060 but um back in the the fat Brian lore um during during the fat Brian arc you literally look you
01:42:54.680 look like a 32 year old man who is training to become the next Santa Claus like that's like
01:42:58.940 that's wow and and what I mean by that is not just that you were fat and you were
01:43:03.160 but jolly disgustingly obese but yeah morbidly uh but yeah but the thing is bigger than ben's
01:43:09.420 beyond beyond if possible yes beyond the fatness um you you just your jolly disposition like
01:43:16.320 seriously like everyone women kids they're like they they love you you're very likable and for me
01:43:22.580 it's like they're they're a thing you can staff your weaknesses you can work on things but then
01:43:26.000 there's also a certain point where it's like look i could i could spend so much time doing pr
01:43:31.420 or I could just lean in
01:43:33.340 just be who I am
01:43:34.300 just lean in
01:43:34.900 play the heel
01:43:35.640 I was born this way
01:43:37.300 I was born this way
01:43:38.060 I was born in the dark
01:43:39.220 anyways thank you guys
01:43:41.160 it's been fun
01:43:42.160 and looking forward
01:43:42.860 to continuing
01:43:43.340 alright
01:43:43.700 well in case you didn't know
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