00:05:07.020Ongoing racial disparities in incarceration, educational attainment, police brutality, hiring practices, access to health care, and perhaps most starkly, wealth, make it clear that these monuments do not stand somehow outside of history.
00:05:23.000Racism and white supremacy, which undoubtedly continue today, are neither natural nor inevitable.
00:05:29.780Rather, they were created in order to justify the unjustifiable, in particular, slavery.
00:05:36.140One thing that bonds our extended family, besides our common ancestor, is that many have worked, often as clergy and as educators, for justice in their communities.
00:05:47.620While we do not pretend to speak for all of Stonewall's kin,
00:05:51.160our sense of justice leads us to believe that removing the Stonewall statue and other monuments
00:05:55.540should be part of a larger project of actively mending the racial disparities
00:06:00.020that hundreds of years of white supremacy has wrought.
00:06:03.120We hope other descendants of Confederate generals will stand with us.
00:06:07.420As cities all over the South are realizing now, we are not in need of added context.
00:06:12.340We are in need of new context, one in which the statues have been taken down.
00:06:18.680Respectfully, William Jackson Christian, Warren Edmund Christian,
00:06:23.480signed the great-great-grandsons of Thomas Jonathan Stonewall Jackson.
00:06:30.780The King's Hall Podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well and win the world.
00:06:38.620Well, gentlemen, welcome to this episode of the King's Hall Podcast.
00:06:42.340I am here with one of my favorite hosts, myself, Eric Kahn.
00:09:32.460Dan, one of the things that intrigues us, we were talking about this before the episode in our extensive long range planning for the episodes.
00:09:41.440And this one in particular, we are talking about this idea of grandsons in the case of the cold open Stonewall Jackson's great, great grandkids advocating for the tearing down of Confederate monuments.
00:09:55.200And for what we're talking about with legacy in the show, this seems like the anti-type of what we're aiming at as fathers and men.
00:10:03.480We want our sons to protect, defend, and continue building monuments of the past generation.
00:10:10.120So it's got to be at the top of your list of things that we should be against, right?
00:12:16.360Yes. So, Brian, I want to get your thoughts.
00:12:18.380First of all, just we're going to be talking in this episode about winning our kids' hearts so that they continue building and doing the work that we've set out to do because it's going to take generations.
00:12:29.060But before we get there, just general thoughts on β like do you see the tearing down of these monuments?
00:12:34.640Do you see it as a form of fifth commandment violation, a form of patricide?
00:12:39.240What is going on at the heart of that?
00:12:41.460Well, it certainly at least shows that there was a failure of cultural transmission somewhere along the way where the people who built those statues β and they were post-Civil War.
00:12:52.540The war had been lost by the South, and they still built these statues.
00:12:58.820There was a culture there that loved these men enough and the ideals that they stood for, that they went to great expense and effort and made public monuments to them.
00:13:11.220And still do today. And so you have a failure of cultural transmission somewhere on down the generations to enculturate that same love into the current generation, at least on some level.
00:13:22.800You still have, obviously, there's a large group of people in the South who would still very much respect and honor General Lee and Stonewall Jackson, you know, all that.
00:20:00.080But we were like following that model.
00:20:02.280Was there a point in you guys' ministry in this church particularly where you said this is not going to be advantageous for cultural transmission?
00:20:11.180Like this isn't going to functionally β it's not going to do the thing that we now want to do.
00:20:15.160Yeah. One of the things I think that ran through that noticing was noticing what kind of fruit the strains and streams of Christian culture that we were coming from were producing. What they were succeeding at and what they were failing at, and it was important to see.0.95
00:20:32.960They were failing at transmitting robust faith to the next generation, often in huge percentages, failing to do that.
00:20:41.720So we went, okay, whatever model they're using, even if it's what 98% of people are doing, we should probably question it if it's producing 80% apostasy rates, that kind of thing.
00:20:52.120The other thing it was failing to produce is an educated populace or an educated congregation.
00:21:47.540Can you describe like the problem in the men? I'm interested, like what were you seeing?
00:21:52.800Yeah. So the standard man would essentially look like he would be an abdicating man. So almost like a petulant child that his wife would have to lead and beg to have children because he wanted to abscond himself of responsibility at every turn.
00:22:12.860So the average guy would either be underperforming at work or not working and having his wife work.0.58
00:22:20.800He would be neglecting having children because of the extra responsibilities, and it would interfere with his hobbies.
00:22:27.360There was also rampant pornography use, even recreational drug use, amongst other things.
00:22:55.900That was being uncharitable, probably.
00:22:57.620But that did describe a pretty significant number of men, for certain.
00:23:02.080Yeah, I mean, at the best of the worst, you just had guys that were essentially not taking their role as husband very seriously and as father very seriously.
00:23:09.880The things that you would see, I think, running through a lot of the households relates to one thing you mentioned.
00:23:17.500If something was happening that we'd be like, oh, that was good.
00:23:19.780Like they're homeschooling their children and using like a Christian curriculum of some sort.0.98
00:24:52.780From music to the casualness, the low church, kind of like non-hierarchical, not emphasizing leadership structure, not emphasizing command or go and do or exhortation.
00:25:16.440Our culture, modern American culture is shallow.
00:25:19.060so when church worship itself is engineered to be an analog of that culture but just then
00:25:27.160sprinkling in the bible to be like aha but we've got them uh now they're here because they're they
00:25:31.720weren't turned off by like anybody wearing a suit or hierarchy talk or like you know legalism which
00:25:36.980means like telling people to do anything at any time for what whatsoever you know and like oh
00:25:42.160we're just going to take the whole service model of um essentially corporate uh marketing where
00:25:47.780it's like, look at the services we provide for you in exchange for your attendance, come to the
00:25:53.340church. We'll take your kids. It'll be great. You don't have to worry about them. They suck anyway.
00:25:56.820Like they're so annoying. We'll just take them away from you. Don't even worry about that girl.0.99
00:26:00.540You just sit down. You want a latte? We got you a latte. Go to the Holy grounds cafe. We'll take
00:26:05.180care of you. And you've even got soy. In fact, only soy. You know, you come in here. You're
00:26:10.120going to hear, do you like, you like bad music? We've got bad music just for you. We made it.
00:26:14.900we worked really hard on it you know coming here like oh you you don't like strong men that's kind
00:26:20.600of like i don't know they're gonna be tell me what to do like that patriarchy thing so we've
00:26:25.640got just the guy for you he will be dressed casually uh and his pants will be too tight
00:26:31.300he won't talk for very long and he will sound like he's from california brian is now describing
00:26:35.560himself back then never been more offended even back then no eric i did not do that
00:26:41.960well the clothes i mean the clothes let's be honest nobody wants to return to the fashion
00:26:48.320of their early 20s i mean actually some people probably would be fine my fashion hasn't changed
00:26:53.000ever that's true and nobody has complimented me on my fashion choices ever ever and so it's good
00:26:59.240you're just consistent no there's one there's one one thread that's going through what you're
00:27:04.720describing with modern evangelicalism and that's what is the ultimate aim of the worship service
00:27:10.480Yeah. You gave a teaching on this once, like the five things that people assume that worship is. One of it is like education, theological education. So if you think that, then you're going to format the service a certain way. You're going to take the distractions out, and you're going to have very direct teaching, and you have to have notes and all that.
00:27:56.000the services we provide for you, you know, the music we have for you, the teaching we have for
00:28:02.440you, like, it wasn't about the worship of the holy and living God. Sorry, Brian put his finger.
00:28:09.120I'm sorry, I confused you with that. I was thinking that it basically, you end up,
00:28:15.600and the way you justify all that is you say, we're removing as many barriers as we can to
00:28:20.620the unchurched person so that we can bring them in and share the gospel with them. But you end up
00:28:24.960winning them too, is all of the things that they came in with. Because you're just basically
00:28:31.220replicating their entire pagan culture. And then they come in and they're like, oh, I'm a Christian0.93
00:28:36.180now. What do I do? And they're like, well, just not a lot different. Yeah. So then what does that
00:28:41.120produce? Not a lot different. Not a lot different. Yeah. So we started seeing these things and what
00:28:48.120it was not producing, what it was producing, and then moved to, okay, what are some of the root
00:28:53.780causes for transmitting because whether we thought about it this way or not what we were talking
00:29:00.360about is why are we transmitting this a certain culture to these people and failing to transmit
00:29:06.080some culture that we want to maybe we can't put our finger on exactly what it would look like
00:29:10.420strong men strong women you know like good families you know holy righteous sin repenting
00:29:16.260like what would okay we're failing to transmit a culture so what do we need to do differently
00:29:22.680And the things that we really zeroed in on very quickly did relate to worship, the liturgy, what we were presenting in our worship, and also the way that we treated children, both in worship context but also overall in terms of Christian education.
00:29:40.100Was there something, like, were you reading a book?
00:29:44.260I know, for example, I'll tell a story.
00:29:47.860The first time I went to a liturgical service was in Kentucky.
00:29:51.960Pastor Bill Smith, who's now in the CREC.
00:40:52.000It was similar to how we do β currently now we have a kid's catechism class for certain months of the year and an adult instruction class that's β but even then, the kids are welcome to come in the adult if they want.
00:41:17.900So I wasn't really here for much before, you know, when there was full nursery and all those things.
00:41:23.560Have you seen a change and a difference?
00:41:26.000I mean, part of this is like, well, you know, we'll check the fruit and, you know, 10, 15, 20 years and I can tell you better what's going to happen with the kids.
00:41:35.240But have you seen a change in parenting and the children and the ethos and culture of the church?
00:41:45.520So we're having much more hands-on active shepherding of things like practical discipline because they come out.
00:41:50.660You can't have completely wild undisciplined kids in the service for long before someone's like, hey, do you need some help in learning how to spank your kid?
00:42:05.800But the other thing it does, one of my favorite things that it does in terms of the culture development is it protects you from the wrong people joining.0.88
00:42:13.580So people who are going to come to the church and treat it like daycare and basically exchange my attendance and my tithe, which is usually 1% of their income or whatever, for spiritual goods and services, they're usually the loudest complaining, the least contributing, and the least seriously Christian people.0.94
00:42:30.480And so all the people that left, not all of them, but a significant number of the people that left our church over this, I wouldn't have them back.0.97
00:42:38.240Like I wouldn't allow them in membership without significant repentance.
00:42:42.140I just wouldn't because they were the cause of huge cultural issues in our church.
00:42:47.380This is why, like to me, the earlier church model of much more restrictive thought about we're not begging you to join our church.
00:42:54.640We're actually assessing you to see if we will allow you to join our church, which is the biblical method for assessing church membership.
00:43:02.720It's not we're going to beg you and market you in the doors and do everything we can to keep you for the sake of our numbers, our attendance and our giving numbers.
00:55:29.480But even in the like goofball ways that they do those things, it's just β it's funny to me because I remember coming here and thinking β my wife and I both, we were like, man, this curriculum based on what we were doing for homeschool, this is really intense.
00:55:45.020This is going to be really hard for the boys.
00:58:37.100No, well, the people are probably fine. The architecture is so bad, though. And the point is that when you have, well, this is a stretch, you know, with the Dallas connection. But just when you're surrounded by ugliness, it becomes white noise. And in a culture like that, beauty sticks out like a bright red, you know, exotic bird in the middle of a bunch of pigeons.
00:58:59.520So when you have a church like that at the center, doing hard things, making beauty, there's also a sense of calling further up and further in where if you win the people to that, you've won them to something genuinely worthy and timeless and glorious.
00:59:16.980So they're much more likely to stick and want to teach their children that.
00:59:22.340What about American culture is there even to pass on to your children right now?
00:59:25.940You know, one of the byproducts, I hadn't really considered this before, is in a world of ugliness, if there's something beautiful, so you can win the hearts of your children and your people to that idea of beauty, but the people on the outside will despise that beauty.
00:59:41.680You're making your family a target in a way.
01:00:18.960There are brothers and sisters in Christ.
01:00:21.180Think about that, the attraction of beauty, but also part of the beauty that we're saying, like families worshiping together, being fruitful and multiplying.
01:00:30.380Those things, like beauty, as you described it, those things are rare in our culture.0.79
01:00:35.640So the stereotypical church you walk into, it's old people, a few young people, no families, no life.
01:00:43.980And so I think too, even the, it was in the why men hate going to church, not Charles Murray, David Murrow, I think is the, is the author.
01:00:55.560But he says in there, he's like, if you want a vibrant church, he's like, it's like demographically very simple.
01:01:02.440You need young men and families because that's going to bring kids and vitality and life.
01:01:07.120So when I look at our church and I say we have children in worship, the thing that we have is vitality.
01:01:24.700And connecting to the education piece as well, when you start to look at what you're aiming to do and when your children's hearts and enculturating them, you have to realize that any goal short of enculturating them into the culture of Christ in every part of what it means to be human is inadequate.
01:01:46.680Because it will leave some domain where they can think in a way that's disconnected from Christ. They can reason in a way that's disconnected from Christ. You need a totalizing culture. So how can you possibly do that without education, particularly when you understand that education is probably going to be the thing in that period of their life, the young years?
01:02:08.980they're going to be doing more by volume than any other thing right they're going to be uh you know
01:02:16.040definitely pursuing education in most settings for more hours in the week than just about any
01:02:21.840other thing they could be doing so if you say like yeah we've got this great gravity here in
01:02:26.900the worship or in we do catechism or family worship at home all those great things but then
01:02:31.300they go to public school 30 plus hours a week and they're reading and they're thinking and they're
01:02:36.000learning this whole system of understanding the world and how to think about what they're
01:02:41.040the world and you're gonna like expect what well i would expect from that for for them to treat
01:02:51.380their christian faith and culture like an accessory to their life not like a totalizing center so to
01:02:59.280me that's one of the key things in a place like moscow idaho that made a culture that keeps kids
01:03:05.920and keeps people there and grows in its richness year over year.
01:03:09.900Like I think about their hospitality.0.53
01:03:12.100They're like weapons-grade hospitality in Moscow.
01:03:32.480And I think, where did this come from?
01:03:34.060Well, a huge number of the people who are here serving in this capacity grew up, went to not only that worship, but they also grew up with a Christian education and they learned all of Christ for all of life.
01:03:47.960So now that the thickness of that culture is, it actually has breadth and thickness and richness to it that they ended up actually not only keeping their children, but winning their hearts.
01:04:00.940And now their children are like, we're a part of this.
01:04:04.060We are doing β we're perpetuating this.
01:04:06.300I want my kids to participate in this.
01:04:08.040I want them to be the fourth generation, fifth generation here in this city, in this town, perpetuating this culture.
01:04:14.420Well, I think that's one of the things that was so big for me, like having sort of preteen β young teens and preteens before we got here and then coming here.
01:04:24.500Look, the world is against you as it is.
01:04:27.020Like you feel like all of life you're trying to push against the current of what the culture is trying to do to your family.
01:04:31.800but again coming here coming into this culture it was like for the first time in my life
01:04:37.120all the major forces around me are pushing in the exact same direction i am and as a father
01:04:43.260i felt that feeling of like i'm gonna lose my kids like every force was allied against me
01:04:50.300and then and then you know fast forward to now and it's like you know i can trust that when
01:04:55.280they're working for you know one of the men in our church on a project like i know the guy i know
01:05:01.280that were aligned missionally um when they are in school like kevin and you know uh their teachers
01:05:08.540like i know that they are you know usually by the time they get out of school they're like dad i saw
01:05:13.960your tweets today that was hilarious and i was like oh boy that's okay i gotta remember that
01:05:18.840they sometimes see those now but but it's in the context of like you know their teacher is like
01:05:25.260their teacher is like did you see what your dad posted check out this banger and you're just like
01:05:30.780oh but imagine like this is what a lot of americans are dealing with i talk to these
01:05:36.040guys all the time grill americans who are like yeah i don't get it i'm conservative i send my
01:05:41.880kids to school and they come back and they're talking to me about blm and purple hair like
01:05:46.480they like it and i think a lot of guys you know what i would say to them is well this is going
01:05:52.780to be really hard but you have to change worship and education and this is why again i've been a
01:05:59.500huge proponent obviously we did it but relocation if you don't have these things you need to have
01:06:03.260them there's really not a substitute there's not like i think a lot of people are like well yeah
01:06:08.040but i listened to jeff durbin online that's not going to do that though you're not going to produce
01:06:13.960what you want in your kids and i think again episode central to this is we want to win our
01:06:18.940kids hearts so that they're the ones erecting new monuments protecting the old ones yeah
01:06:25.300advancing the construction project um and to do that you actually like the thing is if your
01:06:32.600culture is lame and it doesn't really have a lot of answers for much of life why would your kids
01:06:38.780want it like just to be honest with yourself what is what i'm inviting them to inherit good
01:06:46.100well think about a lot of men in this country who maybe agree with us but how many guys go to church
01:06:52.320and they're like, yeah, I really don't like the teaching or the elders.
01:07:22.320You know what? Changing your worship, you know, where you worship and the education of your kids are actually two of the most difficult things that you could probably do as a father.
01:07:34.160I mean, especially if it requires a move. Could you imagine? I mean, that's β well, you can't imagine because you did it.
01:07:41.080Well, I even had a pagan friend that I worked with, not a Christian. And he said to me β because I was debating all these things. I was like, it's really hard. I know my core values are different than yours, blah, blah, blah.0.75
01:07:52.320And he's like, he's like, correct me if I'm wrong, but like your, your Christian heritage, like the Puritans.0.51
01:11:20.020And it's easy to judge them, but like in many ways, I was reading the accounts in Deuteronomy and Joshua and as we were making the transition here and it's like, yeah, but there's too many obstacles.
01:11:30.520And then you're like, how are you not just like the Israelites?
01:12:37.340for me to get two things into the life of my family? Number one, a church community where
01:12:43.480I am excited to see, I would be excited to see my children buy into their vision of the worship of
01:12:50.320the living God, whole hog. And number two, how can I then educate them to think about everything
01:12:55.840Christianly? If you get those two things right, you know, stuff's still hard, things can go wrong,
01:13:02.060blah, blah, blah. But you will be able to say, I think I, before God did my duty, I did what I
01:13:09.500could do. I gave my children all I had. And, uh, and I think you'll reap. So Brian, I was wondering
01:13:16.180if you could speak to the method of education. You know, we had explored a homeschool co-op,
01:13:21.580which would have been quite honestly, a lot easier than starting a school. Why would one,
01:13:27.500why did we do a school versus a homeschool co-op or even like a hybrid, like cottage model or
01:13:33.520something like that? Yeah. One of the big motivations, honestly, is to get out of the
01:13:36.960longhouse. Like you have to, education is one of the biggest, just absolute, um, longhouses in
01:13:43.860the world, in, in the modern American world. It's dominated by basically feminine and bureaucratic1.00
01:13:50.560modes of thinking. And I don't mean feminine in like a glorious, godly femininity. I mean,0.88
01:13:54.520the worst of women led by matriarchal yes it doesn't have the chinocratic our education1.00
01:14:01.520doesn't have the note of of joyful strong male leadership it has the the dominating ringing note0.83
01:14:09.040of bureaucratic female dominated leadership well it's like the school marms of like
01:14:14.640yeah Dolores Umbridge there's a reason that C.S. Lewis when he wrote Harry Potter reference yeah
01:14:20.480Yeah. When Lewis wrote The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, he made the head of the school that they escape out of, basically, and then come back to at the end. It's a bureaucratic lady.
01:14:32.200Yeah, essentially. That's what it is. And then she gets elected to Parliament at the end, which is perfect.0.86
01:14:38.340But β and I say that because you'll notice if you get deep into the education world and you start evaluating different systems of classical or whatever, you will find that because education so often lands in the plate of mom and dads are just disconnected, they're not reading the books, they're not educated themselves, they're not engaged.
01:14:59.780You will find that β and I think most of it is like very much well-meaning, moms tend to dominate the world of education.
01:15:07.200So if you want to get out of that, then you have to get into a different mode of thinking. And I think one of the most important things you can do is have male teachers. You can have male board members.
01:15:23.260So for us, a lot of the school model came back to saying, we actually don't just want to replicate a lot of what we see, even in the Christian homeschooling world.
01:15:35.960It still tends to be very much mom dominated.
01:15:39.340And we wanted to have a model where the elders of the church or, you know, or wise and godly men of the church were overseeing the curricular elements.
01:15:50.040obviously we have a huge input from moms. Like we have a huge input from godly ladies, ladies who
01:15:56.240are passionate about education and know quite a bit as well. It's like, I'm not knocking that at
01:15:59.620all. We definitely reaped harvest there. But when you start to look at, I think the kind of culture
01:16:07.040that's produced in a community that has a really good school, it's more of a Redwood type of
01:16:13.680culture instead of a scattered culture, because instead of everybody kind of doing their own
01:16:20.160thing, you have this central gathering point where a lot of discipleship and enculturation
01:16:26.440is happening, and they're all coming together to eat at the same table.
01:16:32.160And I also think it adds an element when you bring in some of the male element tends to
01:16:38.120tend towards rigor there's more rigor in scholastic environments that are male oriented and so and
01:16:46.440then also when you look through a historic if you just do a historic sweep of education
01:16:50.460especially in the classical world you'll find that it is dominated by from the early years of
01:16:58.340in classical education you would typically be wealthier families they would typically hire
01:17:03.360It would often be a slave even who would oversee and tutor children through the young years, and then they would be handed off to a rhetor, which would be a male teacher who would bring them up through a next level of their education.
01:17:16.960It was very much dominated by male teachers and male administration.
01:17:22.380And so today I think where you find a lot of male involvement, you'll find higher levels of rigor often.
01:17:29.720It's interesting in early American history too. I was reading this with Lewis and Clark. The vast majority of anyone who was college university educated in America at that time period, their pre-college training and much of the training that would be like high school years, what we think of now, predominantly 99.9% of teachers were ministers.
01:17:52.820So they were the only ones with the education to get people prepped for college if they want to go to university.
01:17:58.100So when you think about it, it's like, OK, well, I wonder what the culture was like, particularly in the South, when every single higher education teacher was basically a male and well-versed in reformed theology.
01:18:12.940I mean, it produced something very different.
01:18:14.660And the schooling would often only go to about age 12 for many children before the young man would often go into trades or to apprenticeship.
01:18:24.600Yeah, they would only go into higher education if it's like if you want to be a minister, a lawyer.
01:18:27.900That's why you would see a lot of higher education begin, like university level education begin in the teen years for people that we now think of as like very accomplished lawyers or politicians.
01:18:37.140And I mean like early in American history, many of them were doing β they were going to their college university education at 16 or they were β
01:18:44.360Well, it was because in the Great Depression, we started β we rolled out high school essentially as mandatory or normative for everybody, partly as a way of keeping young men out of the workforce, delaying their entrance into the workforce to not compete over scarce jobs.
01:19:01.100So during the Great Depression, this big change happened and stuck as this often happens, like we implement property taxes and then they stick forever, even though they were supposed to be temporary.
01:19:10.980So we tend to think just generally about education very differently than the education has been approached in history.
01:19:21.280And so a lot of that we tried to go to our model of education with an open mind of saying, well, instead of just replicating something that we can buy in a ready-made, let's think about the economic challenges of tuition.
01:19:35.140Let's think about the male problem of having more male influence in the classroom and in the board, and that's also an economic problem.
01:20:21.660The goal is in part because we don't have a tuition that we're really charging our students because it's funded from the tithe, which is a creative way of doing this.
01:20:32.200There's a lot of different elements that were reverse engineered from thinking through this problem of a lot of the problems that we saw in the world of Christian education and saying, how can we best address as many of these problems as possible and also grow and figure it out as we go along.
01:20:47.680And the Lord's been kind. Our school is tripling this year roughly in student body on Tuesday as we record. It's like the end of August. We're going to β September 5th, I think. Tuesday, September 5th, we'll be starting our next year of school with like 3x the student body.
01:21:05.360And that's about the pace it'll grow for the foreseeable future.
01:21:07.700Yeah, for at least the next couple of years, probably the next five plus years, that would be, wow, yeah.
01:21:15.500So if you are interested in learning to be a teacher at our school and you have the capacity, then particularly if you're independently wealthy.
01:21:26.740Yes, or have a government retirement or a pension.
01:21:29.640Yeah, a lot of the military. That's how we hacked it with getting military guys. Because we're like, you got to be able to, you know, support a guy full time, a man with a family. Like, you don't want some weirdo who's, anyway, different subject.
01:21:46.520Well, gentlemen, it's been good. Any closing thoughts as we wrap up this discussion? Keeping your kids, winning their hearts, education, worship?
01:21:54.660well yeah i would just i would just think forward to your the trajectory that your kids are on if
01:22:00.500you look at the trajectory do you like that trajectory and what would you give to change it
01:22:05.240that's that's what i would say it's like do the hard thing yeah fest and alente make hay slowly
01:22:11.980but if you make hay slowly in the wrong direction you will just get to the wrong place
01:22:16.600right so so make sure that you're looking at the foundational direction the trajectory
01:22:23.500of your enculturation of your children as a father,