The Megyn Kelly Show - September 07, 2026


Andrew Huberman on Practical Wellness Tips, the Danger of "If Only" Thinking, and the Important "Protocols" For Life | Ep. 1392


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 11 minutes

Words per minute

187.28

Word count

24,560

Sentence count

1,548

Harmful content

Misogyny

6

sentences flagged

Toxicity

19

sentences flagged

Hate speech

7

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:01:22.220 out. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at
00:01:28.320 New East. Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We've got a first-time
00:01:39.420 guest on the show today, Dr. Andrew Huberman. He's a neuroscientist, Stanford professor,
00:01:45.600 and host of the hugely popular Huberman Lab podcast. He has published more than 75 peer-reviewed
00:01:51.940 articles in top scientific journals and delivered more than 100 invited research and keynote
00:01:56.580 seminars around the world. He's had a fascinating life and provided guidance on how to live better
00:02:02.480 to millions of fans and followers, but he's never written a book until now. His new book is called
00:02:09.380 Protocols, an Operating Manual for the Human Body, and it's available right now for pre-order. It's
00:02:16.160 out later this month, and it is a guide to improving brain function, enhancing mood and
00:02:22.040 energy, optimizing bodily health and physical performance, and rewiring your nervous system
00:02:28.000 to learn new skills and behaviors even that could positively transform your life.
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00:03:21.600 and consider telling Congress to guard your card. Andrew, welcome to the show.
00:03:27.740 Thanks so much for having me. Great. Great to finally meet you.
00:03:30.560 Yeah, same. It's a pleasure. I'm a big fan and I've learned a lot from you over the years,
00:03:34.920 just from clips and from your show. So this is a thrill. And I'm loving the chance to get to talk
00:03:39.980 to you about you before we kick off the health and other advice. So you're a California boy.
00:03:47.200 I am.
00:03:47.760 Right? Grew up in California.
00:03:49.180 I am.
00:03:49.320 And it seems like from the book, you had sort of an idyllic first 14 years and the family had
00:03:58.340 dinner together every night. And that's so important to one's mental health and wellbeing.
00:04:03.660 And then something happened in your family that gets downplayed by a lot of people is
00:04:08.220 really not that relevant to a child's mental health, but it is relevant and it was life
00:04:13.840 changing for you. And that was your parents' divorce. Yeah, I did have a quite idyllic life.
00:04:18.720 My dad's a scientist. My mom's a writer and, you know, and along with my sister, we had
00:04:25.960 dinner together every night. In my home, there wasn't a lot of discussion about sports, but I
00:04:30.720 certainly got to hear a lot about the luminaries of science and ideas from my dad. We always shared
00:04:35.940 that. My mom has a real love of literature, obviously, and I have a close relationship
00:04:42.020 with my sister and everything was pretty fantastic. And, and then, you know, I was born in 1975. So
00:04:48.140 divorce wasn't as common back when, but when I, about at age 14, they separated and got divorced.
00:04:56.280 So this happens a lot nowadays, as we know, unfortunately. Look, I love my parents. Everyone
00:05:01.780 did the best they could with what they had. But it was a high conflict situation. And, you know,
00:05:08.900 as things played out, I found myself disengaging from academics, disengaging from kind of standard
00:05:17.080 social milieu of school. I went to a very, very, very good public school in South Palo Alto.
00:05:23.620 Keep in mind at this time, Palo Alto wasn't the Palo Alto that it is now, you know, of dot-com
00:05:28.140 and tech fame, but most of the kids there were the children of academics or engineers or something
00:05:32.520 like that. And, uh, we were, we were well enough off. Uh, I wouldn't say we were like at the high
00:05:38.220 end of the wealth scale or low end. We were, you know, uh, the focus on in our house was on love
00:05:42.760 and ideas. And, but what happened was in response to that. And I regret this. And I encourage all
00:05:49.080 kids of divorced parents, uh, high or low conflict situations to, you know, keep, keep studying,
00:05:54.000 keep doing your homework and stay engaged in school sports and activities. Like what happened
00:05:57.800 for me was I ended up organizing my life around basically skateboarding and hanging out with
00:06:05.140 skateboarders because back in the late 80s and early 90s, that's where all the feral kids went.
00:06:11.460 And I talk about this a little bit at the beginning of the book, even though it's not
00:06:15.080 the main focus of the book. What was really great was in that community, there were a bunch of kids
00:06:20.360 whose parents were not engaged in their lives much, right? That was the unifying theme. That's
00:06:25.200 why we skateboarded, because you didn't need your parents to come to baseball or soccer practice.
00:06:29.620 But there was a ton of creativity. A lot of those people went on to create big brands like DC. I
00:06:34.860 knew those kids that started DC, that started all these big brands. And some kids got sponsored and
00:06:41.080 turned pro. Others got really into drugs and alcohol and destroyed their lives. And so it was
00:06:47.240 a very interesting time for me being completely free, getting exposed to a lot of things way too
00:06:52.540 early, in my opinion, looking back. A lot of exposure to violence, drugs, and sex that,
00:06:59.020 frankly, as a 14-year-old, I shouldn't have been exposed to. But I was witness to a ton of great
00:07:03.720 skateboarding. I, unfortunately, was not a great skateboarder. But fortunately, by virtue of getting
00:07:08.020 injured a lot, I started foraging for other things to do. And eventually, mainly because of a high
00:07:13.580 school girlfriend who went off to college and I didn't want to be away from her, I found my way
00:07:18.540 back to academics. And somewhere along the way, I took a course in neuroscience. At the time,
00:07:25.340 there wasn't a field of neuroscience, but it was one truly amazing teacher. His name was Harry
00:07:30.380 Carlisle, who taught me about brain function and taught me about these neurochemicals in the brain
00:07:35.080 that controlled things like anxiety, depression, addiction. And I'd witnessed a lot of that.
00:07:41.700 And I thought to myself, this is the coolest thing ever, especially when I learned about
00:07:46.100 neuroplasticity, which is, you know, this organ that we have in our head is unlike all the other
00:07:50.420 organs of the body in that it can deliberately change itself. We can learn new things. We can
00:07:55.440 have a new emotional relationship to things. And so as my life went on, I pursued a career in
00:08:01.240 science, eventually became a tenured professor at Stanford, ran a research lab for a long time.
00:08:05.640 I still teach at Stanford and fell in love with all of that. But it was really this kind of merge
00:08:12.100 of the hard things that I had seen and experienced, plus the understanding that there's this
00:08:16.980 incredible organ in our brains that we don't really understand that much about, at least
00:08:20.780 not back then, but now we understand enough to make really great choices, including to,
00:08:26.720 you know, I think, you know, even though the discussion about things like psychedelics
00:08:31.140 and things of that sort are very interesting for therapeutic purposes, that I think because
00:08:36.320 the young brain is so plastic that all kids would benefit from, frankly, staying away
00:08:41.760 from that. This isn't an anti-drug campaign that I'm on, but the developing brain is so fragile
00:08:48.340 and so susceptible to both chemical and environmental inputs. I will stand on firm
00:08:55.220 ground and say that while I understand that in some cases it may be necessary that having two
00:09:03.140 parents at home and them getting along and working through things together, I love my parents. I
00:09:09.500 I don't hold any grudge whatsoever, but I think it's clear now from the data that's enormously
00:09:14.720 helpful to a child's development.
00:09:18.060 So no regrets.
00:09:18.840 It all worked out for me, but there was a high friction road along the way.
00:09:22.640 And I thank science, an amazing teacher, and then others who came along, plus the love
00:09:28.380 of science and a care for the world that my father and mother put into me.
00:09:33.720 So I'm grateful to them too.
00:09:34.880 I, you know, I love them, pray for them and with them and life is good.
00:09:40.640 So I only look back with fondness, but it was, it was rocky.
00:09:45.500 Yeah.
00:09:46.060 I mean, I, my own take on it and having read the book is I don't think you'd be doing what
00:09:49.940 you're doing if you hadn't gone through that trauma, that traumatic period and been exposed
00:09:55.240 to as many stressors as you were.
00:09:57.300 Clearly it lit something inside of you that needed addressing, needed healing, needed
00:10:02.440 some sort of attention.
00:10:03.440 And like most people who have had some trauma in their past, whether you've made progress on it or not, I think most of us spend the rest of our lives in some way trying to solve it, address it, heal it, or make it better for others who we can see coming up behind us who have similar issues.
00:10:21.700 So, I mean, I would argue that this book, Protocols, is a direct result of all that you went through, and thank you, and thanks to your parents in a way, because as a result, we have such good advice in here.
00:10:34.500 Thank you.
00:10:35.140 I do want to spend one minute on, this was such a sad thing.
00:10:38.360 So, you mentioned Professor Carlisle, who became such a mentor to you, and this was an important person in your life, and ultimately, he dies by suicide?
00:10:48.740 Yeah. So I don't want to give people the impression that the book is entirely dark. It's a story about lightness and what you can do to better your abilities in sleep and stress mitigation, all these things. But I touch on the science of grief and how to get through things in a healthy way and mental health.
00:11:09.060 And, you know, along my path, what I saw was the following. A lot of the kids I grew up with and with this amazing community of skateboarders, I saw some flourish. I saw others succumb to addiction. I saw some succumb to mental health issues.
00:11:27.480 and as i went into science i incorrectly thought oh you know what's going to happen is the scientists
00:11:35.340 are all going to be super healthy right these are people who understand the brain and as a
00:11:40.840 consequence of understanding the brain and biology um i naively thought that they would be immune to
00:11:45.940 a lot of the problems uh that uh these this other community uh had um and i found quite the opposite
00:11:52.980 So there were three things that happened along the way for me that really motivated me further to write the book Protocols, to have a podcast where we talk about health, where I teach about what we do and don't know about the brain and how people can benefit.
00:12:06.320 And the first one really was these observations from my teen years. The next observation was that this guy, Harry Carlyle, who understood mental health, depression, disease, suicidality as chemical issues, for whatever reason, I eventually was able to fill in some of the pieces, took his own life in a pretty dramatic fashion.
00:12:31.280 And that told me something, right? I was close friends with his wife and I knew his family. It told me that knowledge alone doesn't save us. Knowledge is important. It's, as we say in science, necessary, but not sufficient, you know?
00:12:45.900 And then what happened was I went off to graduate school and had an amazing time in graduate school.
00:12:51.460 Everyone says, oh, you know, you finish graduate school and you're aged and you're tired.
00:12:55.760 I was so full of life in graduate school.
00:12:58.080 And after, I loved my graduate advisor.
00:13:00.300 She was like a mother to me. 0.55
00:13:01.920 Her name was Barbara Chapman.
00:13:04.000 And then she, I know her family and kids.
00:13:06.360 Her daughter is a neuroscientist now.
00:13:09.120 And she died of cancer at 50.
00:13:11.860 And I thought, oh my goodness, she had the BRCA mutation.
00:13:14.360 so she had a genetic susceptibility. I thought, my goodness. And then I became a postdoc
00:13:19.260 at Stanford and my postdoc advisor, the first day of my faculty appointment had a heart attack
00:13:26.040 across the table from me at dinner. He survived that. It turns out he had pancreatic cancer. He
00:13:30.360 was dead roughly a year later. I ended up writing his obituary for nature. We were very, very close.
00:13:35.820 And I thought to myself, this is crazy, right? Like either the joke in my field, the kind of
00:13:41.480 morbid joke is you don't want me to work for you, obviously, because the odds are, you know,
00:13:45.480 it didn't work out so well for these people. But the serious aspect of it is at one point,
00:13:52.100 I thought, what's going on here? What's going on? And I also noticed in my field of neuroscience,
00:13:58.600 people doing tremendously well. I know Nobel Prize winners, members of the National Academy,
00:14:02.660 my closest childhood friend is now the chair of neurosurgery at UCSF. He's doing phenomenally
00:14:06.960 well in life and including family. And I thought to myself, what's happening here? And I realized,
00:14:12.980 especially at the beginning of the pandemic, scientists, doctors, parents, kids, nobody knows
00:14:19.760 the manual, the rule book for how to control their stress. Nobody knows the playbook for how to take
00:14:26.200 care of their health. And we're supposed to be all about health and we're supposed to eat right,
00:14:30.320 sleep right, et cetera. But like, I'm watching my colleagues get sick. I'm seeing them. They look
00:14:34.860 badly out of shape. And I understand they're time limited, but they're talking about back pain.
00:14:39.460 They're talking about their kid has anxiety. There's a colleague became addicted. This very
00:14:43.980 famous person in my field became addicted to painkillers and then eventually died. No one
00:14:47.920 talked about it. And I'm thinking to myself, we're not talking about this stuff. We need to talk
00:14:52.640 about it. In fact, this last year, one of the luminaries in our field, it's still gets me,
00:14:57.680 who was a real pioneer in transcranial magnetic stimulation therapies for depression,
00:15:03.640 and also psychedelic therapies, the studies of these took his own life. My dear friend and
00:15:09.840 colleague, Nolan Williams, who's helped the veterans community tremendously. So I realized
00:15:15.340 at some point, people don't know how to take care of themselves. They don't even know what
00:15:19.880 self-care is. It sounds very selfish. And in some versions of it, it can be. So what are we
00:15:25.220 supposed to do? So in 2020, with the world on lockdown and everyone kind of been battling each
00:15:31.960 other. I thought, look, I'm not a virologist. I'm just going to stay out of that whole thing.
00:15:36.100 It's a hornet's nest for an academic like me, but here's what I will do. I'm going to go online
00:15:41.080 and I'm going to start talking about ways to improve your sleep. My lab had worked on a number
00:15:45.400 of things, including eye diseases and trying to cure blindness, glaucoma. We'd worked on brain
00:15:50.840 development and I'd worked on stress mitigation in humans. And I knew that there were simple tools
00:15:56.220 that people could apply to learn to shut their brain off at the end of the day and get great
00:16:00.360 sleep to have more energy, elevated mood and focus throughout the day. I knew the literature quite
00:16:07.060 well because I teach it and I'd done research on it and published on some of it on how you can
00:16:11.860 modify your brain in adaptive ways and how you can start to unpeel some of the emotional load
00:16:17.380 of traumatic experiences. And I thought the world needs this. So I'm going to just start blabbing
00:16:22.640 about it into the camera. And I teamed up. Interestingly, I teamed up with a guy who had a
00:16:29.880 little bit of a background in media. His name is Rob Moore. And we started this little production
00:16:33.040 company in my closet with my bulldog, Costello, snoring in the background. And I grabbed some
00:16:38.580 skateboarders. My friend, Mike Blayback is now a famous action sport photographer. He came up
00:16:43.000 through skateboarding, had his own challenges with alcohol and drugs, got clean, got lean and
00:16:49.220 healthy. He's a family man. He's got two kids. He's doing great. I grabbed two skateboard filmers
00:16:54.900 because skateboarders, mind you, the ones that made it through the shoot of all the troubling
00:16:58.920 stuff. They are the original do-it-yourself filmer editors. We all carried around cameras
00:17:04.840 when we were kids, long before smartphones, and they are phenomenal at making movies. So
00:17:09.180 we're a small pack of guys, and we did it the same way you'd start a skateboarding company.
00:17:14.060 Find a space, film people doing what they love, put it out into the world, and I just started
00:17:19.520 giving away tools to the world on sleep, on stress mitigation, on neuroplasticity,
00:17:24.460 on personal development. And I would have guests on, but I would also do these solo episodes where
00:17:29.920 I would explain here, here's what the real story on dopamine is. It's not about pleasure. It's
00:17:33.960 about motivation. Here's how you can leverage that to your advantage to stay motivated,
00:17:38.600 but not burn out and so on. And then eventually I realized that the world needed that information
00:17:43.760 in a different form so that the book is sort of a lookup table. It tells a story. You could go
00:17:48.620 linearly through it, but it's kind of a lookup table. You can go any chapter you want. So you
00:17:52.760 Yeah, if you want to read about sleep, you can go to that chapter and so on.
00:17:54.900 Yeah, so that's really the purpose behind what I do, yeah.
00:18:00.100 Again, the book is called Protocols by Andrew Huberman, available for pre-order right now.
00:18:06.500 Let's spend some time on sleep because I've seen so many clips of you talking about sleep,
00:18:11.680 and I can tell you this is definitely an issue for me and a lot of my viewers of a certain age,
00:18:18.060 women in particular, but a lot of guys out there too, got a lot of truckers who listen to this show
00:18:22.240 on SiriusXM who are not well-rested
00:18:25.280 and are not getting the appropriate amount of sleep.
00:18:29.460 And I have to say,
00:18:30.480 the more time you spend talking about how you need to sleep,
00:18:33.700 the harder it can be to sleep
00:18:35.400 because then you're in your bed at night like,
00:18:37.160 I'm supposed to be asleep, but I can't fall asleep.
00:18:40.180 And it's amazing to me that you argue
00:18:45.220 that it begins when you wake up.
00:18:47.720 Your good night's sleep begins the moment you wake up.
00:18:51.040 And whenever I hear this next part, because I've heard you say this over the years, I think Andrew Huberman is not from the Northeast and does not live in the Northeast.
00:19:01.260 And now understanding that you're a California boy, it's starting to come into full focus for me because you want us to get up, go outside within the first 30 minutes or so and stare at the sun for, you know, 10 minutes maybe.
00:19:15.200 And now we do mean like at the sun or like right next to the sun, not like the fully bright sun, but you say that's not really the sun you're getting in the morning when it first rises anyway.
00:19:25.620 But explain why this is important and explain how this is supposed to work for those of us in places like Connecticut when it's minus 15 and awful when you wake up.
00:19:35.960 Fair play. You know, I've largely lived west of Interstate 5, which cuts down through the
00:19:43.260 center of California. So all fair. So here's the thing. We also want to live, the rest of the
00:19:51.600 country, the people of Minnesota, the people in Washington. You guys are having a couple other
00:19:57.520 advantages that we can talk about. So it all evens out. Here's the deal. To really master
00:20:05.820 your sleep and get great sleep, but also to have elevated daytime mood focus, etc. You really want
00:20:13.280 to master the first hour of your day and the last hour of your day. And fortunately, I'm not going
00:20:17.520 to tell you that you need to do a bunch of things in each of those hours that require finances or
00:20:23.640 require a lot of energy. Here's the theme, which is we know is conducive to better mental health
00:20:31.200 physical health and longevity. You want bright mornings and days and dark nights. Now, if you're
00:20:38.280 going to tell me, well, there's not a lot of sunlight out here, but here's the deal. When you
00:20:42.700 wake up in the morning, you wake up because of a rise in a hormone called cortisol and because of
00:20:47.200 a rise in body temperature. Most people think of cortisol as a stress hormone and they think,
00:20:52.020 oh, that's bad. I don't want high cortisol. You want your morning cortisol high. I'll repeat that.
00:20:56.900 you want your morning cortisol high. It is not a stress hormone. It is the hormone of energy
00:21:01.480 and to mobilize energy in your body and get you moving into the day. And if you get your morning
00:21:06.360 cortisol high, it helps ensure that your nighttime cortisol is low. And when your nighttime cortisol
00:21:12.740 is low, it's easy to fall and stay asleep and you get great sleep. Your metabolic health will be
00:21:17.240 better. The hormone melatonin goes up, which makes you sleepy. You want morning cortisol high,
00:21:22.680 nighttime cortisol low. So the best way to kind of book. So think about bookending your days.
00:21:28.740 I don't care what time you wake up. If it's 4 a.m. or it's 10 a.m. We can talk about what to do if
00:21:33.980 the sun isn't out yet. But within the first hour of waking up, ideally within the first 30 minutes,
00:21:39.880 you're going to get up. Most people use the restroom. I suggest you hydrate, drink a little
00:21:43.880 bit of water. And if the sun is up, and by the way, you don't need to be able to see the sun.
00:21:49.540 It can be completely overcast. But if there's daylight coming through the clouds, which there is even in the depths of winter in Boston, it's much brighter at 7 a.m., for instance, in Boston in the middle of winter than it was at midnight the night before. There's a lot of what we call photons or light energy coming through those clouds. You go outside. You could even stand on a balcony. Best not to do it through a window. But if you have to, you go out on a balcony or outside. You look in the direction of the sun. If you can't see the sun because there's a building in the way, that's fine.
00:22:18.920 Take off any hat you might be wearing
00:22:20.920 because the sun's coming in from the top.
00:22:22.500 You want to get to your eyes.
00:22:25.060 And-
00:22:25.460 Don't wear sunglasses.
00:22:26.020 Not sunglasses at this time.
00:22:27.760 Eyeglasses and contacts are fine.
00:22:30.240 And you can have your coffee there.
00:22:32.100 You can do your morning prayer or meditation there.
00:22:34.580 You can bring your dog.
00:22:35.800 You can bring a friend.
00:22:36.700 You can be completely alone.
00:22:38.120 And even if you just grab a one minute of daylight,
00:22:41.560 it's going to benefit you.
00:22:42.780 Why?
00:22:43.000 Because there's this critical window
00:22:44.540 within the first hour of waking
00:22:46.060 where if you get bright light in your eyes
00:22:48.180 from daylight, from sunlight. It amplifies that cortisol peak, which makes it much lower before
00:22:55.180 sleep, which makes it far easier to fall asleep at night. In addition, most people want less stress
00:23:01.200 in their life, not more. If you spike your cortisol that way first thing in the morning,
00:23:07.020 any stress you have during the day will lead to a more transient, a briefer increase in stress
00:23:14.200 hormones. You are better at dealing with stress when you do this. And there are a number of
00:23:18.580 biochemical reasons for this. These are not psychological phenomena. These are pure
00:23:22.280 physiology. This isn't about mindset. This is just-
00:23:25.140 Can you just explain what am I looking, you know, because they say you're not supposed to look
00:23:29.460 directly into the sun, but am I supposed to be looking directly into the sun at this hour?
00:23:32.500 Great question. So as somebody who worked on blinding the diseases of the eye for many years,
00:23:36.940 I want to encourage people, you can look in the direction of the sun, but blink as needed to
00:23:40.680 protect your eyes. If it's really bright for you and you're blinking, great. The blink reflex is
00:23:44.680 there to protect your eyes. Never force yourself to look at any light, sunlight or otherwise that's
00:23:49.900 painful to look at. So you can just look in the direction of the sun. You could even keep your
00:23:53.880 eyes closed. Believe it or not, the photon energy goes through your eyelids, but you look kind of
00:23:58.380 off to the side of the sun. If it's in the middle of winter, the sun is easy to look at because it's
00:24:03.740 behind so many clouds. When the sun is low in the sky, such around sunrise or sunset, and keep in
00:24:09.800 mind, I'm not saying you need to see the sun cross the horizon. If you wake up at 9 a.m. and
00:24:13.580 the sun's already up, you miss sunrise. It's rising. But when it's low in the sky, you'll
00:24:18.840 notice something about the sun if it's not a cloudy day, which is it looks a bit more yellow,
00:24:23.220 orange, red than at other times. Now, of course, the light coming from the sun is the same all
00:24:27.660 times of day. But when the sun is low in the sky, there's an atmospheric phenomenon called
00:24:33.460 Rayleigh scattering where the UV, which are damaging rays for the most part, get scattered.
00:24:39.500 And so those aren't reaching your eyes.
00:24:41.200 So you see what are called the longer wavelengths of light.
00:24:43.660 It looks a bit more like candlelight and bright, but more like candlelight.
00:24:47.700 So when the sun is low in the sky, you don't have to worry about UV damage to your skin.
00:24:51.980 You don't have to worry about damage to your eyes or getting cataract.
00:24:54.980 When the sun is overhead, that's when you really need to be careful about too much UV exposure.
00:25:00.080 We know that UV exposure-
00:25:01.360 So in the perfect Huberman protocol, I'm out, I'm looking up,
00:25:07.980 I'm maybe just to the right of the sun,
00:25:10.400 not directly into the sun.
00:25:11.680 I don't have sunglasses on.
00:25:13.780 And how long do I need to stand there looking?
00:25:17.280 And do I need to be looking nonstop?
00:25:21.400 Or can I like look around at the dogs and the, you know?
00:25:24.060 Look around.
00:25:24.940 How does it go?
00:25:25.720 Those photons are bouncing off of surfaces.
00:25:28.500 They're getting reflected.
00:25:30.440 If you take a walk, if there's any green space around,
00:25:33.080 see, this is where the East Coast, you have an advantage.
00:25:34.980 you know except in some cities you often have a lot more green because you get a lot more rain
00:25:39.120 right uh the oregonians really benefit here too that the we're so lucky really beneficial
00:25:44.520 wavelengths of light are bouncing off greenery you know if you were that long wavelength light
00:25:49.780 that bounces off greenery is tremendously good for our mitochondria it actually can go into and
00:25:54.720 through our body this is a separate story that i cover in the book it can actually lower blood
00:25:59.240 glucose believe it or not your sugar blood sugar management is much better when you're out in
00:26:03.980 daylight than when you eat indoors this was shown by my colleague glenn jeffrey at university
00:26:08.460 college london you shot they shined a red light which of approximate sunlight on people's backs
00:26:14.000 while they did a glucose tolerance test it blunts glucose levels by nearly it's somewhere between 20
00:26:19.800 and 30 percent which is remarkable how could that be the light actually goes into the body
00:26:25.400 through the body and the mitochondria the energy factories in our cells actually start using more
00:26:32.820 ATP metabolism goes up, which is remarkable. Now here's the interest. Just so I'm clear,
00:26:38.100 you have to be exposing your skin in that moment. Like it's, it doesn't count when, 0.98
00:26:41.480 you know, you're skiing and you're completely covered head to toe with that. That's that
00:26:45.660 the light needs to hit your actual body skin, a t-shirt they've shown. It can go through a t-shirt
00:26:49.960 or even a shirt like the one I'm wearing, you know, a thin enough shirt, a thick jacket. It
00:26:54.220 won't go through. So you get outside, you take your, uh, any brimmed hat off. You look in the
00:26:59.840 direction of the sun. Yes. If you need to text someone, that's fine. You walk, you take a call,
00:27:04.300 you talk to somebody. It's, you know, it's especially nice to get five minutes or so.
00:27:08.980 I suggest doing a 10 breath meditation, you know, just focusing on 10 breaths or do your morning
00:27:13.980 prayers. That's a big practice for me. And then get into the day and you've done it. You've spiked
00:27:19.700 that cortisol. Look, even better would be if you can get some exercise in the first hours of the
00:27:24.800 day, because, you know, everyone's so afraid of cortisol, but everyone's told to exercise
00:27:28.520 a moderate to high intensity exercise session, cardiovascular training or resistance training
00:27:33.680 will triple your cortisol level, but transiently. That's a great thing early in the day.
00:27:39.180 And it sets you up for great sleep at night. If you have to exercise later in the day,
00:27:43.040 that's fine. And we can talk about that. But in that case, you'd want to, one of the things that
00:27:47.440 really leads to better sleep, as long as we're here, we might as well just kind of throw in a
00:27:51.060 few things that lead to better sleep. If you're having a hard time calming your system down at
00:27:55.560 the end of the day, two things really help. One, you need to lower your core body temperature.
00:27:59.740 That's actually how you fall asleep. The one excellent way to do that is to take a hot shower
00:28:04.620 or bath. You say, wait, I'm heating up my skin. How's that going to make me cooler? Well,
00:28:09.120 your brain has a little thermostat region called the medial preoptic nucleus. And when, just like
00:28:14.000 a thermostat, when the surface of the skin heats up, the brain says, oh, we need to lower a core
00:28:20.060 body temperature. And your body temperature starts falling when you get out of that shower or bath.
00:28:23.800 If you don't have access to a shower bath, even a warm compress to the face will accomplish this.
00:28:29.600 Very easy, essentially costs nothing, and it will facilitate the transition to sleep.
00:28:34.620 The other thing that is-
00:28:35.740 And this is probably a bigger thing, but I'll let you finish your point, but can you, after this, talk about staying asleep?
00:28:42.960 Yes.
00:28:44.140 Yeah, so one of the key things to falling asleep and to stress mitigation, you'll notice I'm trying to fire hose tools at people that they can use any time, right?
00:28:53.120 Yes, we want them.
00:28:53.540 These are all, and I'll just point out, like I didn't discover these tools.
00:28:57.520 I've published on some of them as tools in my laboratory, but I want to really point
00:29:03.580 out something important in the backdrop here is these mechanisms are hardwired into all
00:29:08.420 of us.
00:29:08.940 We're born with them. 1.00
00:29:10.260 We're going to die with them.
00:29:11.320 So there's no real learning except how to activate these circuits.
00:29:16.820 Hence a user manual for the brain and body, right?
00:29:19.080 An operating manual.
00:29:20.080 So the idea here is you have these cells in your eye.
00:29:24.060 They're called melanopsin intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells.
00:29:27.060 That's just nerd speak for the cells in your eye that actually know that morning sunlight
00:29:33.780 is hitting them.
00:29:35.080 It's different than other forms of light.
00:29:36.600 Your phone won't do it.
00:29:37.740 A computer won't do it.
00:29:39.520 An indoor light, unless it's a 10,000 lux artificial light, we'll talk about that in
00:29:43.520 a minute, won't accomplish this.
00:29:45.380 we have these cells for the very purpose of waking us up in the morning, for telling the brain and
00:29:51.080 body it's morning. That circuit gets activated. Boom, you just go into your day. You don't have
00:29:56.040 to think about it anymore. There's another feature to the way that we are hardwired,
00:30:01.340 which is we have a little collection of neurons in our brain that communicate with our body
00:30:06.000 in the following way. When you are feeling too alert, could be stress, could be panic,
00:30:11.720 could be public speaking, could be a hard conversation, could be anticipation of a
00:30:16.160 medical outcome, or you're having trouble falling asleep or getting back to sleep.
00:30:21.200 What you need to do is do a long, deliberate exhale.
00:30:28.580 Just like that. If you want to make it even more effective, you do two inhales through your nose
00:30:33.200 to maximally inflate your lungs, and then you exhale. What am I talking about here? This is
00:30:37.800 not breath work. This is a collection of specific neurons that were discovered by my friend and
00:30:42.780 colleague, Jack Feldman at UCLA, that lead to a slowing of heart rate in a good way.
00:30:50.880 Everyone's heard of the vagus nerve now. It's this nerves in the body, collect sensory
00:30:55.160 information from the body, telling the brain what's going on in the body. We're not even
00:30:58.420 thinking about it. But there's another part of the vagus nerve, which goes from brain to
00:31:03.140 to the sinoatrial node of the heart.
00:31:05.460 And it controls something called
00:31:06.580 a respiratory sinus arrhythmia, which sounds bad.
00:31:09.040 People hear arrhythmia and that sounds bad.
00:31:11.160 But when you do a deliberate exhale,
00:31:13.740 your heart rate slows down.
00:31:16.020 So if you want to calm down really fast,
00:31:19.500 the fastest way to do that is not self-talk.
00:31:22.240 It's not meditation
00:31:23.320 because you don't have time to run off and meditate.
00:31:25.460 It's not a drink.
00:31:27.200 Even that will take longer.
00:31:28.940 We can talk about alcohol later.
00:31:30.240 It is to do a deliberate exhale.
00:31:33.140 you're too amped up, you want to calm down, long, deliberate exhale. There's a specific pathway
00:31:41.580 that slows the heart rate down. These days in the fitness circles, you're hearing more about
00:31:45.300 heart rate variability, a stress monitor, like a whoop band or anything that measures HRV.
00:31:51.680 It's measuring how often your brain sends this break signal to your heart rate.
00:31:58.460 that's what hrv is in fact if you do a few deliberate exhales during the day just a few
00:32:04.660 times you're walking out of the restroom going back to work you're sitting down to your desk
00:32:09.000 whatever you're driving you're picking up the kids you do one long deliberate exhale your hrv
00:32:13.560 gets higher at night in sleep which is great for you and during the day you want high hrv it shows
00:32:19.980 that your nervous system can calm your heart rate down slow it down and this is a well you know i
00:32:25.360 could get into the mechanism, the diaphragm, you know, moves up, the heart gets a little smaller,
00:32:30.200 blood moves faster, the brain says, uh-oh, blood's moving faster through that smaller volume of the
00:32:34.620 heart, slow heart rate down. When we inhale, heart rate speeds up and everyone's told, oh,
00:32:41.340 you're stressed, take a deep breath. That increases your heart rate. So, you know,
00:32:46.400 circa 2019, 2020, I'm thinking to myself, everyone's stressed. Everyone's saying,
00:32:50.780 take a deep breath. That's not going to work. That's going to send you in the opposite direction.
00:32:55.360 Okay. Humans inhale actively and passively exhale. We do this all day long. We let the air fall out.
00:33:04.380 When we actively exhale, it activates this circuit that's just sitting there waiting for you to calm
00:33:09.640 yourself down and you actively exhale. The reason exercise increases HRV has a lot to do with how
00:33:16.780 much exhaling you do during exercise. So in that last hour of the day, here's what I'd love for
00:33:22.040 people to do. I understand people watch Netflix. They're listening to podcasts. They're watching
00:33:26.320 TV. They want to know the verdict on this new case. I get it. I totally get it. I'm human too.
00:33:31.140 Just do this for me. Try and make the first hour of your day as bright as possible that day. If all
00:33:36.320 you can do is flip on all the lights in your house first thing in the morning, that's it.
00:33:39.700 Can't get outside. It's too cold. You don't want to do it. Fine. Just make it bright.
00:33:43.380 Make as bright as you can. Even better for people in the Northeast would be to get,
00:33:47.340 and I don't have any relationship to the companies that sell these, but for about $100,
00:33:50.580 you can get a 10,000 lux artificial light.
00:33:53.280 It looks like a TV screen.
00:33:54.340 You put it in the kitchen or the bathroom,
00:33:56.160 you flip it on, go about your morning.
00:33:58.140 You don't have to stare at it or you get outside,
00:34:01.060 get some light in your eyes.
00:34:02.580 Do that.
00:34:03.560 And if you can, we can talk about exercise
00:34:05.440 in the early part of the day.
00:34:06.740 Great, first three hours or so.
00:34:08.840 And then in the last hour of your day,
00:34:10.440 think I'm gonna try and heat up the surface of my body
00:34:13.540 to cool down internally so I can fall asleep better.
00:34:16.820 So hot compress to the face for 10 seconds,
00:34:19.280 maybe a hot shower hot bath okay if you have time dim the lights if you can't dim the lights
00:34:26.440 try and not use overhead lights because the eyes the cells in the eyes that that carry this
00:34:31.840 information about waking up to the brain they view the upper visual field that's how
00:34:35.860 they're they're placed so they can see the sky so do like the scandinavians and use desk lamps
00:34:41.560 or a floor lamp okay dim those lights dim your screen and if you're still feeling too ramped up
00:34:48.060 and you can't sleep, do some long exhales, just a few long exhales. This whole thing will have an
00:34:54.560 outsized positive effect on people's sleep, daytime mood focus, and alertness. And there's
00:34:59.660 a beautiful study out of the UK Biobank of more than 80,000 subjects, which shows that even if
00:35:05.260 people just make their nights darker, for instance, maybe an eye mask while you sleep,
00:35:10.620 don't have an eye mask, grab a soft t-shirt, throw it over your eyes when you go to sleep,
00:35:14.580 even just making your sleep environment darker has a significant positive effect on reducing
00:35:21.620 symptoms of depression, OCD, mania, dementia, and on and on. Better to make mornings bright and
00:35:28.900 dark nights. But if you look at the way humans have been trending for the last few years,
00:35:33.740 we have days that are too dim and nights that are too bright. And if you think, well, no,
00:35:40.180 actually my work environment's pretty bright. Just putting people near a window or having people
00:35:45.760 look out a window a few times during the daytime has significant improvements on metabolic health,
00:35:52.960 longevity, mood. It's not that we should be living out of doors. No one's going to do that,
00:35:59.680 right? People want, we've evolved all these ways to live indoors and they're great, frankly,
00:36:04.980 But brighter mornings, darker nights,
00:36:07.780 even in these subtle ways will help tremendously.
00:36:10.880 Now, there are some people for whom all of that,
00:36:13.640 they'll do all of that and they'll say,
00:36:15.080 I still wake up at two or three in the morning
00:36:16.640 and I can't get back to sleep.
00:36:18.800 And for that, I'm gonna offer you a really weird trick.
00:36:21.940 But the reason I'm willing to do this,
00:36:23.740 even as a scientist is A, there's a scientific basis for it
00:36:26.540 and B, it works.
00:36:28.040 And it's the following.
00:36:30.020 We know this is a wild trick,
00:36:32.820 but this will get you back to sleep.
00:36:34.480 It's wild. I know. It's really wild. I saw you do it, and I have tried it a few times.
00:36:39.920 I know. It looks crazy, but you'll thank me later, folks. I promise. Also, what's fun about
00:36:45.540 these things is these are in you. This isn't something you have to go purchase. I'll be
00:36:52.920 happy if people purchase the book, but frankly, the reason I go on podcasts like this is all the
00:36:57.560 time, and it's because I just want people to have these tools. I wish I had known as a kid
00:37:04.200 As an adult, I can calm myself down fast for a tense moment, just doing a deliberate exhale,
00:37:10.900 or even better, a double inhale, long exhale. I can get better sleep because I had sleep issues
00:37:15.660 starting basically in high school and college. I'd fall asleep and I'd wake up in the middle
00:37:20.040 of the night. I mean, when we're sleeping well, life is so much better. Getting over traumas,
00:37:26.540 recovery from addiction, dealing with difficult circumstances, but also our ability to do all the
00:37:32.660 things that we know we're supposed to do, like exercise and earn a living and do all those
00:37:36.600 things that we're striving, all our strivings get so much easier. So these are the tools I wish I
00:37:41.860 had, but they weren't out there. So the thing that you can do to fall back asleep, I'll just give you
00:37:48.300 the science very briefly first. Anyone that's ever had a kid or held a kid knows that if you rock
00:37:53.340 the kid back and forth and you walk, they fall asleep. Turns out there's a scientific study of
00:37:59.060 the exact rate of rocking and walking that's ideal for putting babies to sleep. Turns out in adults,
00:38:06.660 believe it or not, scientists are so weird. They did a study using a slow rocking bed and it puts
00:38:11.160 people to sleep. Okay. I want one. I know. I'm like, I want one too. But for most people,
00:38:18.260 it's not practical. And then there was this woman who actually was in, she wasn't at Stanford,
00:38:23.900 but Francine Shapiro, who developed this thing called EMDR, which is a trauma treatment where
00:38:28.980 people recount a story while moving their eyes from side to side. Sounded pretty wacky. People
00:38:34.180 made up silly theories that, oh, that's mimicking rapid eye movement, sleep. No, nothing of the
00:38:39.460 sort. Turns out, based on now three or four really solid publications, that when the eyes are moving
00:38:45.340 from side to side, for whatever reason, it quiets the activity of this brain region called the
00:38:50.640 amygdala, which is involved in stress, threat detection, and fear, as it's commonly referred
00:38:55.660 to, the fear center. The critical thing for falling asleep is that you be not stressed,
00:39:03.280 but also that you forget about your body position. So it turns out that this rocking motion or the
00:39:10.660 movement of the eyes both suppresses areas of the brain that are involved in threat detection
00:39:15.460 and anxiety and stress, but they also help you forget what's called proprioception,
00:39:21.440 your knowledge of where your limbs are. And that is a requirement for falling asleep.
00:39:26.960 So there are two things that have happened in the following year. First of all, a group of
00:39:31.600 brilliant scientists at MIT came up with a sleep mask that they're developing now. I have no
00:39:35.500 relationship to this company, but I've tried this mask that creates a very specific eye movement
00:39:40.680 pattern by low level electrical stimulation that causes you to fall asleep. And I've done it. You
00:39:46.740 fall asleep almost immediately. But the eye movement pattern is something that you can
00:39:51.380 create yourself. So you close your eyes, you're in bed, you're wide awake. This happened to me
00:39:55.920 last night. I woke up, went to sleep around 10 o'clock, woke up at 3.30, boom, wide awake. I was
00:40:01.300 having some intense dream about some meaningless thing, like so many dreams. And I thought,
00:40:06.120 I'm wide awake. What do I do? Keep my eyes closed. So under the eyelids, you move your eyes slowly
00:40:12.260 to the left, then to the right, then up, then down. Try and move them counterclockwise,
00:40:21.020 clockwise. I know it sounds crazy. Still with eyes closed. Kind of point them towards your
00:40:25.980 nose. It's not really crossing your eyes. And then you do a long exhale. When people do this,
00:40:33.220 the typical reaction I get because people write to me is, next thing I know, it was morning.
00:40:39.800 I know that sounds wild.
00:40:41.540 And listen, I wouldn't put this out into the world at this scale if I wasn't confident
00:40:45.700 that doing that one to three times for most people is sufficient for them to get back
00:40:49.820 to sleep.
00:40:50.620 Now, if you're intensely ruminating on something really troubling, you're going to need to
00:40:54.620 do something else.
00:40:55.380 But very, very often that will do the trick.
00:41:00.200 And these eye masks that are now being developed are just trying to recapitulate that eye
00:41:05.080 movement pattern.
00:41:06.740 That's crazy.
00:41:07.500 All I can think of is the movie The Jerk, you know, where he puts the sunglasses on or the eyeglasses and they've got something.
00:41:12.900 And next thing you know, everybody who tries them is cross-eyed.
00:41:14.940 I hope the masks don't have any weird side effects.
00:41:17.920 That's not going to do this.
00:41:18.480 But what I just described is entirely safe.
00:41:20.980 Why does it shut down your proprioception, your knowledge of body position?
00:41:27.620 I can't help myself but tell people why.
00:41:29.760 The mechanism is important here because otherwise it becomes a hack, right?
00:41:33.320 And a hack is something that's designed to overcome a problem.
00:41:36.300 like if these glasses break and I put a paperclip in the corner to fix them, that's a hack. It's not
00:41:42.140 what the paperclip was designed for. It's not a really good solution. It's a temporary solution.
00:41:47.000 The reason this is not a hack, this is grounded in your physiology. Your eyes have many connections
00:41:53.140 to the brain. Some are designed to tell your brain when it's daytime. Others are designed
00:41:57.560 to let you see colors and shapes and movement of objects like cars. But there's another circuit
00:42:03.380 that goes from your eyes to deep brain structures
00:42:06.620 that then connects to what's called your mini brain,
00:42:10.100 a little brain in the back of your brain, literally.
00:42:12.480 It looks like another brain called the cerebellum.
00:42:14.660 Most people think of the cerebellum
00:42:16.480 as a balance structure.
00:42:18.300 It's critical for balance.
00:42:19.800 It's also critical for learning.
00:42:21.620 But the cerebellum is also critical
00:42:24.320 for taking your eye movements,
00:42:27.920 understanding where your eyes are,
00:42:29.380 and adjusting your body position accordingly.
00:42:31.620 When you walk through any environment office outdoors, whatever
00:42:35.960 You don't experience the world as blurry
00:42:38.640 But if I took a picture on my phone and moved my phone, it would be blurry
00:42:42.500 How is that the cerebellum?
00:42:44.680 Takes your eye position and sends the eyes a message to offset any slip in the visual world
00:42:50.340 So you see the world as stable as you move your head around amazing
00:42:54.420 When you move your eyes the way I described under the eyelids it confuses the cerebellum
00:43:00.080 there's a map of your body in the cerebellum and the cerebellum doesn't know how to deal with these
00:43:05.420 weird eye movements of side to side round and up and down. And all of a sudden that
00:43:11.180 proprioceptive mechanism is shut down. And that's the second step in being able to fall asleep.
00:43:17.160 So this is a, so lowering your core body temperature, keeping the room cool helps to
00:43:21.800 some long exhale breathing before sleep. If you wake up in the middle of the night,
00:43:25.660 keep the room dark. Yes, get up and use the restroom if you need to. I highly recommend you
00:43:30.680 not look at your phone if you can avoid it. But when you're ready to go back to sleep,
00:43:34.360 do these eye movements, you will find almost certainly that you'll fall back asleep much
00:43:39.920 more easily. And I get thousands of notes every day. Let me hit you with a couple of
00:43:44.620 quick ones, a couple of quick ones. When you say double inhale, can you show us what that is?
00:43:51.720 Is that regular inhales or is something else?
00:43:54.620 The two inhales through the nose,
00:43:56.160 the second inhale will be shorter
00:43:57.480 because your lungs are already mostly full.
00:43:59.380 And then the exhale through the mouth.
00:44:00.840 This is the fastest way to bring your heart rate down
00:44:02.840 and de-stress in real time, okay?
00:44:05.180 So unless you're underwater,
00:44:06.760 I can't see a circumstance where you couldn't do this.
00:44:09.020 So you do it the following way.
00:44:18.020 Until lungs are empty.
00:44:19.260 So it was a long inhale, filling your lungs, then one extra.
00:44:24.720 When you don't think you have extra room, you do one extra.
00:44:27.940 And then a long exhale.
00:44:28.560 And then a slow exhale through the mouth, inhale through the nose, exhale through the mouth.
00:44:32.180 That's right.
00:44:32.740 The reason for that second inhale is important.
00:44:35.520 Your lungs are not just two big bags of air.
00:44:37.700 They have hundreds of millions of little sacks that actually fill with air.
00:44:42.580 And those little sacks are kind of moist in the middle.
00:44:46.460 And like if you're ever trying to blow up a balloon at a kid's party, sometimes it's easy to blow up the balloon.
00:44:51.500 But if they're those little water balloons, sometimes what you find is, you know, if you want to put air into a water balloon so that you can tie it, right, because you filled it too much, you have to get sometimes two pushes, two exhales, right?
00:45:04.260 So in order to maximally inflate those little sacks, you get that big first inhale, and that'll inflate most of them.
00:45:10.340 But then there are a bunch of them that are collapsed and kind of sticking together from surface tension.
00:45:14.220 You do that second inhale, they open up, they don't burst, but they open up. Great. Now you
00:45:19.920 can offload more air on the exhale. And by, and there's a story here also about oxygen coming in
00:45:25.720 and you're offloading carbon dioxide. A lot of our stress is about too much carbon dioxide
00:45:31.620 in the blood. You know, the brain has a set of neurons. Again, this neuroscience thing is
00:45:38.320 incredible, right? It's like you have a set of neurons that don't tell you when to breathe
00:45:42.820 because you need more oxygen.
00:45:44.580 They tell you when to breathe
00:45:45.500 when carbon dioxide gets too high.
00:45:47.620 Many people have what's called sleep apnea.
00:45:50.280 They're not getting enough oxygen during sleep
00:45:52.620 or they have daytime apnea.
00:45:55.660 And so they're not getting enough oxygen
00:45:57.260 and their carbon dioxide levels are too high.
00:46:00.740 There are three reasons
00:46:01.620 why you want to offload carbon dioxide.
00:46:03.920 You need it,
00:46:04.780 but you don't want too much of it
00:46:05.820 building up in your system.
00:46:06.780 First of all, sleep apnea, snoring, et cetera,
00:46:10.220 severe cardiovascular
00:46:11.280 and basically brain health issues come from that.
00:46:16.840 Get your snoring fixed.
00:46:19.320 Get that deviated septum fixed.
00:46:21.240 Get the CPAP if you have to.
00:46:24.100 Well, I had friends who had their uvulas cut out
00:46:26.580 and it stopped their snoring.
00:46:27.460 Oh my goodness.
00:46:27.980 But they said it was very painful.
00:46:29.340 That's, yeah.
00:46:30.300 I don't know how that works.
00:46:31.680 If that's what it takes,
00:46:32.580 provided it's done by a good surgeon,
00:46:34.560 you know, do that.
00:46:35.660 For some people that are overweight
00:46:37.120 or even the guys who like to lift weights
00:46:38.680 and they have these giant necks, 0.87
00:46:40.180 that's actually can create sleep apnea. You don't want to be overly muscled or too much body, 0.71
00:46:45.040 but you don't want overly anything really. But apnea is bad because of the buildup of carbon
00:46:50.640 dioxide in sleep. It won't cause dementia, but it certainly predisposes you to it and to heart
00:46:57.040 attack and so forth. But a lot of people during the daytime, they're walking around mouth breathing
00:47:01.740 as much as you can only breathe through your mouth when eating or speaking.
00:47:07.020 Now, if you're exercising hard, great to breathe through your mouth.
00:47:09.780 That's fine.
00:47:10.980 But do you like the mouth tape that people are using?
00:47:13.500 I don't because I have this mustache beard thing and it never stays on.
00:47:16.960 Oh, yeah.
00:47:17.480 So what I do is when I do my low-level cardiovascular exercise, like walking,
00:47:23.420 unless I'm on a call or if I'm doing an easy cardiovascular exercise,
00:47:28.060 I restrict myself to nasal breathing.
00:47:30.260 It actually sets you up to be a nasal breather in sleep.
00:47:33.740 You kind of start defaulting to nasal breathing.
00:47:35.680 But if I'm running harder or exercising harder, I definitely breathe through my mouth.
00:47:40.460 The carbon dioxide thing is real in the sense that when you're stressed, there's a buildup
00:47:46.660 of carbon dioxide, which is, that's what stimulates the gasp reflex.
00:47:50.360 That's what makes you feel anxious and you can't shut your thoughts down.
00:47:53.720 If you've ever been swimming and, you know, when kids can be so cruel, right?
00:47:57.980 You're swimming.
00:47:58.660 I grew up with a pack of wild heathens and they were just so, they were good kids.
00:48:03.300 But, you know, occasionally you'd be swimming.
00:48:04.460 Learned about some of them in the book.
00:48:05.560 Exactly, and you try and come up out of the water.
00:48:08.520 By the way, it's called Protocols by Dr. Andrew Huberman.
00:48:10.500 You can pre-order yours now.
00:48:11.920 Go ahead, keep going.
00:48:12.720 Yeah, you know, you're coming up out of the water
00:48:14.480 and that mean kid holds your head
00:48:17.240 right as you're trying to come up.
00:48:18.700 Listen, you had enough air a moment before that,
00:48:21.300 but that split second is terrifying
00:48:23.380 because your brain knows it needs oxygen.
00:48:26.680 So you have a gas reflex that's looking for oxygen.
00:48:30.820 There's an oxygen hunger, a breath hunger.
00:48:32.780 When you do this double inhale, long exhale, you reset the carbon dioxide oxygen ratios.
00:48:39.460 And it's a wonderful state to be in because you're alert but calm.
00:48:44.260 So let's say you're studying.
00:48:45.340 It's just maybe a good thing to do at any point during the day.
00:48:47.600 Like while you're just sitting there, if you're listening to this program, you could be doing a few of them.
00:48:50.160 Just a couple, you know, one even just deliberate long exhale or the double inhale through the nose, exhale through the mouth.
00:48:55.660 The beauty of this, again, is your HRV increases.
00:48:58.540 You become more of a nasal breather in sleep.
00:49:01.380 Your sleep is deeper.
00:49:02.400 You have less apnea.
00:49:03.940 You'll kind of notice that today, a lot of the things we move from cortisol to light
00:49:07.880 to breathing, a lot of these things are about being alert when you want to be alert, but
00:49:13.360 not too alert, and being asleep when you want to be asleep.
00:49:15.920 In fact, I would argue that as a human, if you can master the ability to be alert, but
00:49:21.280 calm by using these tools, long exhales, if you need them, bright light to be more alert.
00:49:27.380 If you can learn to turn your brain off and go to sleep, you're going to be a very
00:49:32.380 very effective professional, parent, partner, friend,
00:49:37.580 and your relationship to yourself gets way better
00:49:40.340 because so many of the woes of the world
00:49:42.880 have to do with an inability to self-regulate
00:49:45.320 in order to get sleep.
00:49:47.120 Then self-regulation becomes even harder.
00:49:49.740 Or I'm a big caffeine drinker.
00:49:51.340 Let me just continue my couple questions on this
00:49:54.200 because number of hours people are obsessed,
00:49:57.620 seven or eight, a lot of people can't get that.
00:50:00.040 What's the bare minimum per night?
00:50:01.820 People really should be striving for it. 0.97
00:50:03.400 Okay, so new parents, caretakers,
00:50:06.400 and people who are in very stressful times in their life,
00:50:10.720 I will tell you this, I'm not recommending it,
00:50:12.860 but if you can get that first four hours of sleep,
00:50:17.220 ideally you'd get more,
00:50:19.220 but you will get some growth hormone release,
00:50:21.120 some bodily repair.
00:50:22.200 You can carry on, for better or worse,
00:50:24.300 for quite a long while with four to five hours,
00:50:26.780 but you're not setting yourself up for health in the long run.
00:50:29.500 But I say this because I want to be sensitive to the fact that some people are taking care of a
00:50:34.500 sick relative. Some people are in a very stressful life situation where they're raising young kids.
00:50:40.760 You will survive. I know. And then you're like, you're going to get dementia.
00:50:44.180 You'll survive. You'll survive. You're going to survive.
00:50:47.260 Unfortunate message. You'll survive. Once the kids are sleeping better,
00:50:49.860 you'll sleep better. You will survive. You'll be okay. You don't want to do this for decades on end
00:50:55.520 or even for, you know, five years on end, but you will be okay. For most people, they need
00:51:01.280 somewhere between seven and eight. I feel pretty darn good at six. Developing kids probably need
00:51:07.540 eight or nine. When you're battling an illness, nine or 10 is not abnormal and is healthy.
00:51:12.820 But if you only need six hours and you feel great on six, God bless you. Keep going with
00:51:19.600 six. Do not stress that you need to get more sleep than you need. One thing that's critical,
00:51:24.300 however is if you are having trouble with sleep and you're napping in the daytime you need to
00:51:30.000 stop napping when you get sleepy because of the buildup of a molecule called adenosine
00:51:35.060 and when you nap you shave off some of that adenosine from your brain and body which is good
00:51:41.020 you come out more alert but at night you want to create the the real fatigue at the end of your
00:51:47.320 day so that you're tired that's why exercise is great that's why napping in the daytime is bad
00:51:53.540 for people who have trouble sleeping.
00:51:56.180 I have a whole section in the book,
00:51:57.660 believe it or not, on napping.
00:51:59.380 At one point I thought to myself,
00:52:00.900 I'm teaching people how to nap, this is crazy.
00:52:02.860 But if you need a nap,
00:52:05.560 20 minutes should really be the limit
00:52:07.160 so that you don't cause sleep inertia,
00:52:10.180 which is the tiredness coming out of the nap,
00:52:11.760 but also that you're not eroding your nighttime sleep.
00:52:14.260 There's also, and I put some reference to this in the book,
00:52:18.660 even just sitting down and quietly doing a few exhales
00:52:22.460 and just closing your eyes, not looking at your phone for, believe it or not, make it 60 seconds,
00:52:27.960 three minutes. You'll come out of that feeling some renewed vigor. The problem is nowadays,
00:52:33.320 I'm a big consumer of media. I love media, but every moment is filled with more information
00:52:41.380 coming in. So I'm talking about things that take on the order of minutes across the entire day,
00:52:46.800 cost nothing. Think about the last time you called a business and no one picked up.
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00:55:29.940 out i take it from this discussion you are against falling asleep to an audio book or a podcast yes
00:55:41.340 and no so after now you know six years of doing public health science education i've come to the
00:55:48.140 place where i you know i was a years ago i took kids backpacking in yosemite that was my summer
00:55:54.460 job. And you learn something working with teenagers, which is be a channel, not a damn. 0.83
00:56:00.920 And it turns out that you want to do the same with adults. If listening to a podcast or having
00:56:07.280 the news on helps you fall asleep, I actually suggest you keep doing it. I do. But if you're
00:56:14.640 waking up four hours later and having a hard time getting back to sleep, you might want to think
00:56:19.180 about how the light from the screen or that noise might be impacting you. You know, this whole thing
00:56:24.800 of listening to stuff out of interest is one thing, but when we're listening to podcasts while
00:56:28.680 we sleep or we are leaving the TV on, I think it reflects a much bigger, I always ask myself as a
00:56:34.600 scientist, why are people doing this? And I think they're doing it because it's hard to turn our
00:56:39.120 thoughts off. You know, one of the practices I talk about and I'm happy to share now, I talk
00:56:44.720 by in the book I'm happy to share now is this practice of non-sleep deep rest, which sounds
00:56:49.400 like meditation, sounds like a nap, but it's not. You know, one of the great super skills in life
00:56:55.120 that I wish I had had years ago is the following. Some people have what can really, we call it low
00:57:02.800 activation energy, meaning they have a lot of get up and go. You say, let's do this. They get up and
00:57:06.500 do it. They go, go. They're ambitious. They're doing sports. They're doing this. Those people
00:57:10.380 tend to be the same people that have a hard time turning their mind off. Other people have the
00:57:15.560 motivation issue. I don't have an issue with sleep. I have an issue with motivation. Procrastination
00:57:21.040 is an issue, right? That's what they say. People who are getting after it, they're exercising, 1.00
00:57:26.360 et cetera. They're thinking about business, family. The woes of the world, or even just
00:57:31.260 the small things are circulating in their head, need to learn to get the mind out of thinking
00:57:37.360 and doing and planning and spend a few minutes in order to fall asleep in just pure sensation.
00:57:44.880 And there's a practice that was actually developed in India thousands of years ago called yoga
00:57:48.800 nidra, which means yoga sleep. It involves no movement where you do, this won't come as a
00:57:54.020 surprise now, I call it non-sleep deep rest, but you take a few minutes during the day
00:57:58.340 and you could do it sitting or lying down and you close your eyes. You do a few long exhales
00:58:04.960 to slow your heart rate down. And instead of meditating by trying to maintain focus between
00:58:10.040 your forehead or instead of trying to clear your mind, that's almost impossible to do, right?
00:58:15.220 Clear your mind? No, impossible. It's like the don't think of the elephant. You can't not think
00:58:20.840 of it. Instead, you migrate your thoughts like a spotlight around your body, your feet, the other
00:58:27.420 foot, your knee, the other knee, your heart, your body. And what you're doing there is you're
00:58:32.600 occupying just enough of the brain's attention that it makes it very easy to do. You're not
00:58:37.740 trying to turn off your thoughts, but what ends up happening is you stop thinking and planning
00:58:42.960 and you start just going into pure sensation. And when you do that, the brain goes into,
00:58:49.320 we now know from really good science, goes into this kind of liminal state between
00:58:53.000 asleep and awake and little pockets of the brain start mimicking sleep.
00:58:57.660 Three things happen when you come out of this practice and it could be five minutes,
00:59:01.200 could be 10 minutes, could be 20. There are a lot of these non-sleep deep breaths scripts out on
00:59:05.620 the internet now, some with my voice, some with much more pleasant voices and so on. They're all
00:59:10.940 zero cost. And you emerge from it feeling mentally and physically restored. That's interesting.
00:59:18.220 Learning of physical information, cognitive information is enhanced in people that do this.
00:59:25.000 You could do this once a week, three times a week or daily. It takes very little time.
00:59:28.380 and people's ability to fall asleep gets better. People recover from traumatic experiences better.
00:59:34.480 What's going on here? What is going on? What's going on is threefold. First of all, we now know
00:59:40.580 that in these states of deep relaxation that are not meditation and are not a nap, there's a clear
00:59:47.880 out of debris from the brain. This is called glymphatic clearance. We don't have time to go
00:59:53.100 into the mechanisms, but there's a clearance of all the stuff of cellular metabolism in the brain.
00:59:58.380 ammonia, carbon dioxide, like cellular debris, the ability to clear that stuff out has been shown to
01:00:06.400 offset the development of dementia, reduces the likelihood of dementia, helps you maintain brain
01:00:11.380 function. In addition, and some people will just, I usually find that people, this is the one that
01:00:17.620 really gets people. If you've ever had a poor night's sleep, you know those bags under your
01:00:21.420 eyes? Not yours, but I'm speaking metaphorically here. You certainly don't have this. Whatever
01:00:26.620 you're doing you're doing all the right things clearly but when we've all had if i do we have
01:00:30.780 the wrong lighting in here well it i don't believe that but in any case the if you've ever had one
01:00:35.440 poor night's sleep you look in the mirror and you go oh my god what is that have you ever wondered
01:00:40.000 why then two days later after you've slept well you're back to great what happened turns out it's
01:00:45.960 the buildup of glymph this lymphatic fluid under the eyes and in the eyes you can even see in
01:00:51.860 somebody that hasn't slept well their eyes don't quite look right there's actually lymphatic
01:00:56.260 glymphatic clearance from the eyes. So these practices of deep relaxation, as well as sleep,
01:01:02.400 where the majority of this clearance of this waste product and the glymphatic clearance occurs,
01:01:08.000 you can build in these micro practices throughout the day, or just one minute or five minutes of
01:01:13.840 doing this. And you're offsetting dementia. You come out of it mentally and physically restored.
01:01:18.800 You don't have the sleep inertia, the grogginess of a nap. And we're finding that people learn
01:01:24.100 faster. It's great for stress mitigation. I mean, myriad benefits. In the book, again,
01:01:30.160 which is called Protocols, you write about, you can listen to a scripted NSDR session,
01:01:36.600 non-sleep, deep rest, scripted. So where can we find that? What's that? Is that like on YouTube?
01:01:41.860 Yeah, you can find these on YouTube, Apple, Spotify. You can download them for completely
01:01:46.580 free. Download them to your phone so you don't even have a Wi-Fi connection. You can be on the
01:01:49.940 plane or wherever. I put a bunch of them that I really like. You go to hubermanlab.com slash
01:01:55.180 NSDR, or you could simply do a web search and just put NSDR. For a really pleasant woman's
01:02:02.320 voice, my friend Kelly Boyes, B-O-Y-S, does wonderful NSDRs. She's in the Waking Up app
01:02:08.220 also. There's some with my voice. You can find some, there's a guy named Liam Gillen,
01:02:12.960 who has this, my sister really likes his Irish voice. I think she has a bit of a crush on him,
01:02:17.900 if I'm honest. I'm sorry to my sister, but she loves his voice. She's like, he has the best
01:02:22.840 voice. She does Liam's. And these are so simple. They cost nothing. And by the way, the reason I
01:02:31.020 renamed Yoga Nidra NSDR and put these scripts out into the world is I intentionally took away all
01:02:37.940 the intentions, the mysticism. I want to acknowledge the people that initially developed
01:02:43.480 Yoga Nidra, but when people hear Yoga Nidra and then they hear they have to do intentions,
01:02:47.900 that takes it. I'm not sure my truckers are into it. Exactly. That takes away from the practice.
01:02:53.160 And it's, it's sort of like the word hypnosis. I have a colleague at Stanford who does
01:02:58.160 medical hypnosis, incredible success rates at a smoking cessation, pain modulation,
01:03:05.140 even can't even outcomes from cancer treatment. But I always tell him this, you need to rebrand
01:03:10.480 this thing because in his hands, hypnosis is rapid brain plasticity, rewiring of the brain.
01:03:15.640 But people hear hypnosis and they think stage hypnosis and people squawking like chickens.
01:03:20.680 So what I'm talking about here, whether it's cortisol or darkness, light, breathing, exhales, non-sleep deep rest, I really want to emphasize what I'm talking about is taking your God-given physiology, okay, the cells and circuits in your brain and body that you are endowed with and just putting them to their best use for your health.
01:03:42.500 That's the whole story.
01:03:44.500 In the book I get into,
01:03:45.580 I do talk about supplements and pharmaceuticals.
01:03:48.000 I talk about nicotine, both benefits and risks.
01:03:51.120 I talk about how one can,
01:03:52.940 if you like to have a drink or two,
01:03:54.680 how you can do that
01:03:55.400 and not disrupt your sleep or health as much.
01:03:58.240 At least eight to 10 hours before you go to bed. 0.91
01:04:00.200 10 hours, you're in favor of the darty 0.69
01:04:02.600 is basically what we're learning.
01:04:03.820 This is the college term for the day part. 1.00
01:04:05.860 You gotta keep that shit well away 1.00
01:04:07.900 from the time you go to bed. 1.00
01:04:09.960 I don't drink.
01:04:11.480 I did in my past.
01:04:12.460 I don't drink now,
01:04:13.380 But I understand people like, there are people like alcohol, have your glass of wine, but
01:04:17.860 then do a couple of things, simple things like I just described to get your sleep, to
01:04:23.160 keep your sleep good or great that we actually don't know whether the, the negative effects
01:04:28.080 of alcohol, I'm going to talk about low amounts of alcohol could very well be due to the
01:04:32.640 disruption that alcohol has on sleep.
01:04:35.420 So do a few other things.
01:04:36.920 And look, if you go out and have a bunch of drinks with your friends and you're safe about
01:04:41.120 it. You're not an alcoholic and you're of age. You're going to be okay. You're going to be okay.
01:04:45.820 I think that some people have taken my podcast and my book to mean that everything has to be
01:04:50.000 very rigid. I start off the book by saying, listen, true optimization is about accepting
01:04:56.260 who you are and what you are and are not going to do. And then trying to get the most vigor and
01:05:01.460 enjoyment out of life and most life while also having the occasional sleepless night, sometimes
01:05:07.100 due to crisis, sometimes due to a celebration. That's life. This is reminding me something
01:05:11.900 recently happened on X. You may have seen it. You know, Brian Johnson, the don't die guy who's been
01:05:16.460 on this show. He posted and he knows he's going to get hit for these things. So I kind of admire
01:05:22.620 his honesty, but he posted last night I had dinner at a restaurant. I asked for caffeine free
01:05:30.940 coffee I'm convinced they brought me caffeinated the sleep protocol was off I could not do my
01:05:37.060 morning dunk session which I think is related to basketball I think he means actual dunking
01:05:40.820 although I don't know with Brian Johnson you never know they had to cancel it because at my
01:05:44.460 whole evening and day were disrupted and the responses were so funny one of them was basically
01:05:50.880 Michael Jordan once had 10 beers and then played a game in which he scored 50 points and then went
01:05:59.740 on to do a round of golf at which he was like X under par. It's like, we have weakened ourselves.
01:06:06.500 And especially this is a man to man situation to the point beyond shame. You should be able to have
01:06:13.380 one night of a cup of coffee and not post about it. And the whole next day's activities are off.
01:06:20.880 Like, come on. We actually are somewhat resilient. Yes. So a couple of brief points about that.
01:06:27.060 Um, I, I know Brian. Um, so yes, X is an environment, um, where you don't want to show
01:06:36.260 weakness. Um, you, uh, most certainly if you're going to make exercise claims, you need to put
01:06:41.940 videos. And if you put videos, um, don't confuse, uh, you know, you have to, you have to use proper
01:06:48.000 form and full, full range of motion or the guys are going to hammer you, right? Like it's a very,
01:06:52.720 There should be a third party in your life, someone who doesn't love or work for you, who approves of said video before it gets posted.
01:06:59.960 So Brian's, you know, when Brian put that out there, I think there's three phenomenon going on.
01:07:03.980 One is, you know, I look at Brian's content, I think he's mostly generating entertainment content for people.
01:07:13.520 I mean, his takeaways about sleep, I think are very valid, but it's more of a caricature of longevity, in my opinion, if I'm honest.
01:07:21.220 I think that, you know, most people are not going to do all the things he's doing.
01:07:24.840 And then he has this chronic disease, which kind of undercut the story.
01:07:28.300 But anyway, listen, I think it's great that he's out there, just like I think it's great that Matt Caberline's out there and Eric Topol.
01:07:35.180 You need – this is one thing that people really need to understand about health and longevity in the online communities.
01:07:40.960 In science, in medicine, and I observed this in the world of skateboarding and action sports, you need a community that represents the sort of different extremes, right?
01:07:52.980 In skateboarding, we have our Tony Hawk.
01:07:54.580 We had my friend Danny Wei who jumped the Great Wall of China.
01:07:57.340 of, you need the variety of characters, right? And in science, you see this too. I don't have
01:08:03.560 time to go into it now, but I grew up in science and you get a lot of characters and you need the
01:08:08.980 battles. You need all that. But at the end of the day, people are after truth and some things end
01:08:12.980 up being more for entertainment purposes and the take, and that's fine. And if it gets people
01:08:17.520 paying attention to the space, so be it. Okay. Let me keep it going. I have a question for you
01:08:22.440 as a neuroscientist about OCD?
01:08:26.200 Because maybe it's just my anecdotal impression,
01:08:28.500 but I feel like it's growing.
01:08:29.580 I feel like I don't know a mom or a dad
01:08:31.300 that doesn't have a kid with this
01:08:32.440 or that isn't doing it themselves.
01:08:35.020 I've got a little bit of this in my own life,
01:08:36.980 not like hand-washing,
01:08:38.120 but just like repetitive movements
01:08:40.020 or counting in my own head.
01:08:42.260 And yet I don't think of myself as an anxious person.
01:08:44.400 I don't feel any active anxiety pretty much ever,
01:08:48.480 but I do have a tinge of this.
01:08:49.840 So is there, is that a neuroscientist thing and might some of these techniques, because
01:08:55.420 you're big into stress management in the book and there are tons of tools for stress management
01:08:59.320 and I don't know how you'd classify that.
01:09:01.520 Is that stress?
01:09:02.800 What is that?
01:09:03.440 Yeah, a great question.
01:09:06.080 So whether we're talking about ADHD or OCD, we need to separate the sort of the semblance
01:09:13.160 of those things that many, many, many people have and is normal versus the full-blown
01:09:18.020 pathology.
01:09:18.700 so the clinical definition of OCD is when the compulsion the behavior actually doesn't suppress
01:09:27.380 the obsession it makes it worse so people who have true OCD they feel like they need to wash
01:09:32.740 their hands they wash their hands and then they feel like they need to do it more they feel like
01:09:36.360 they they need to count they count then they feel like they need to do it more and it's maddening
01:09:40.840 it is a it is a they are stricken and they'll do it till their hands are raw they'll pull there's
01:09:48.060 the hair pulling version of it. There's some very, very severe manifestations of this.
01:09:53.560 But OCD in that form is just an extreme version of something that many, many people have.
01:09:58.420 Just like, I'll give another example. If you go to a bridge and you think, oh my gosh,
01:10:02.960 like what's keeping me from jumping off? Or people have thoughts and they go, oh my goodness,
01:10:06.660 like why did I have that thought? That's actually a healthy reflection of your ability to suppress
01:10:11.460 action and thoughts, right? You're not going to act on those things. It's perfectly normal.
01:10:15.960 now when we're tired when we are stressed symptoms of ocd and people that don't have
01:10:22.900 full-blown clinical ocd can worsen now i know these days for understandable reason there's a
01:10:28.840 lot of concern about ssris and i agree that when you look at the data it's clear that many many
01:10:34.220 too many adults and children were medicated with with ssris but i will say in fairness to the
01:10:40.660 scientific literature. SSRIs have greatly helped people with severe OCD. OCD, we know, is associated
01:10:48.880 with an overgrowth of a particular brain area in what's called a circuit called the basal ganglia.
01:10:53.660 It's involved in action and suppressing action. And a brilliant scientist at NIH named Judith
01:10:58.320 Rappaport discovered this years ago. Remember, prior to the 90s, like when I started learning
01:11:03.200 about neuroscience, I claim no discovery here, but it was thought that this was all psychological
01:11:08.180 or like bad parenting or, you know, or trauma-based of which it can be, but we know this is a brain
01:11:15.020 issue. So those drugs in the proper hands and proper dosages can really help people as can
01:11:20.520 behavioral treatments. Okay. In people like you, I'm assuming you don't have full-blown clinical
01:11:24.980 OCD based on what you told me, or people who say, I can't pay attention.
01:11:28.440 Well, I noticed like when I was practicing law where I was working all the time and not getting
01:11:34.540 a lot of sleep. Whenever I was walking on the streets of New York, I was counting my steps
01:11:39.140 or when I'd go up or down a staircase, I would count the number of stairs. Like little things
01:11:44.600 would just pop up here and there in your day where then you're like, why am I counting? What
01:11:48.600 am I doing? Right? Something like that. It's a great question. So, and then, you know, in some
01:11:52.600 cultures they worry beads, right? Where people are constantly moving the beads in their hands to
01:11:56.880 sort of dispel some of the energy. I will venture a guess here, an educated guess,
01:12:03.360 that you have a lot of energy. You're a focused person. You're always looking for ways that you
01:12:08.780 can do better and be better and so on. And people like that, when there's not a task right in front
01:12:15.260 of them, tend to have a lot of energy pouring into the system. The same way that I've always
01:12:19.760 had bulldog, mastiff, mutts, and they love to run, then they're lazy. But if you don't give
01:12:25.440 them enough exercise, they start gnawing on their paw. They need to chew. We all have our chew,
01:12:32.920 right a bulldog needs to gnaw a retriever needs to retrieve a rat terrier needs to look for things
01:12:39.000 and as humans we have these tendencies where our brain circuits become thankfully asymmetric towards
01:12:46.360 learning teaching communicating look you're on you're in front of the public eye every virtually
01:12:52.720 every single day and it's high stakes right and it's and so your system learns to relax in that
01:12:58.760 You are a high-level professional athlete, thinker, communicator, learner, doer.
01:13:04.120 And so when you're walking down the street, it's hard to just switch brain modes to, oh,
01:13:08.840 I'm just walking down the street.
01:13:09.960 Now I'm just going to be in my most chill form.
01:13:12.120 And so the brain starts looking for things to do, count, think about things.
01:13:16.540 Sometimes listening to a podcast or a book can help.
01:13:20.100 It's very hard to turn the brain off.
01:13:22.660 And it's actually not advantageous for you to walk out of a meeting or this podcast,
01:13:28.420 walk to lunch.
01:13:29.220 And during that walk to lunch, you're just completely decompressed.
01:13:31.900 And then you eat your lunch and then you come back and you snap back on.
01:13:34.720 The brain doesn't work in what we call step wave function, in square wave functions.
01:13:38.500 You don't go from asleep, awake, awake to asleep.
01:13:42.540 There are these transition states.
01:13:43.860 So when you're walking down the street and you're thinking, I'm kind of obsessing about
01:13:47.620 that, why?
01:13:48.200 Well, there's some carryover from the previous thing.
01:13:50.500 Just like if you were, you know, waking up, you don't immediately feel wide awake and ready to go about your day.
01:13:55.920 There's some, you know, there's some shifting of circuits.
01:13:58.640 And actually, in the final chapter of the book, I talk about tools for task switching.
01:14:04.520 You know, many people find that they can't focus, but actually their challenge is in dropping the mindset from the previous thing to be able to focus.
01:14:12.740 For you and me who do public-facing work, it's a requirement, right?
01:14:17.000 Our phones aren't out.
01:14:18.040 you know uh it's we have to be locked in but i bet within 10 minutes of ending this like one of us
01:14:24.620 will pick up our phone most likely and so that's normal it's healthy but don't expect your brain
01:14:29.500 to shut off completely and and it i'll just weave one other thing in here many people are having
01:14:33.880 attention issues these days there's a study that was done recently that shows that if your phone
01:14:38.780 is upside down on the table in front of you or it's in your bag under your chair completely turned
01:14:44.740 off, you have a harder time focusing compared to if it's in a different room. But it turns out you
01:14:51.460 can focus if it's on the table or it's underneath your chair. The problem is it takes more mental
01:14:56.220 resources and you give up what is essentially intelligence, cognitive flexibility, and creativity.
01:15:02.800 So there's a cost. But more importantly, if you're used to looking at your phone every three minutes
01:15:08.080 or so, when your phone is not there, every three minutes or so or less, your brain gets distracted.
01:15:14.740 with no distraction. The brain learns these rhythms of the sun comes up in the morning.
01:15:20.620 It goes down at night. I'm alert in the morning because I got my morning sunlight or one of these
01:15:25.940 10,000 lux lights. I dim the lights. This is something we call entrainment. And the beauty
01:15:31.280 of this is that if you take everything we've talked about and you do it for a couple of days,
01:15:36.460 the bright lights and the bright mornings, darker nights, you try and limit your phone for just
01:15:41.960 fight the impulse just every other time to reach for, just for an extra 10 seconds.
01:15:46.920 What happens is you naturally start to feel more alert when you wake up in the morning,
01:15:52.480 even before you got the light in your eyes. I always get the question, how come I wake up
01:15:56.980 one minute before my alarm clock? Guess why? Because that rise in cortisol is what wakes you
01:16:02.280 up. And that is entrained to your alarm clock. Now you can entrain it to sunlight also. And
01:16:08.580 guess what? On the day when you miss it, because it's really dreary out in the Northeast,
01:16:12.580 you'll still feel plenty alert. And at night- I'm going to start texting you pictures of me
01:16:17.760 in January outside in the snow saying, damn that, Andrew Huberman. 0.96
01:16:23.080 Listen, I will be happy to gift you a 10,000 lux artificial light. I send them to people who say, 0.97
01:16:27.820 I'm just not going to go outside. I'm not going to go outside. I'm not going to do it.
01:16:32.400 Flip on all the screens, some music, or just wake yourself up. You will find that bookending
01:16:38.260 your day in this way. And just understanding a bit about my brain is doing something normal and
01:16:43.140 healthy here. I'm counting things. I have a little bit of a superstitious streak. I get it.
01:16:48.940 And it's our brain's attempt to have some control, but also just to take this attention,
01:16:54.980 this energy that we have and put it someplace. And dogs need it. Humans need it. We need more
01:17:01.360 focus and we need deeper sleep and brighter days and all of that. But I also want to emphasize,
01:17:07.360 we need to be human you need to enjoy your life right i think i think people saw that the brian
01:17:12.660 thing and they i think he did do it more for entertainment purposes and we said we're out
01:17:16.820 and it's like look most people sleep to prepare for the next day clearly he's he spends his days
01:17:23.960 preparing to sleep it's just an inversion of the of the life design but most people are not going
01:17:29.200 to do that he's going to live forever for what yeah that's not living thank god at least he has
01:17:32.960 a girlfriend now, the girl who's been helping him do his online posts. So that's, that's a plus for
01:17:38.020 Brian. Let me ask you a question about on the question of light, the issue of light. Expose
01:17:44.160 your skin and eyes to long wavelength light. And you say it can be red light near infrared and
01:17:51.080 infrared. Now I feel like I've, I've heard you talk about this, but I can't remember these
01:17:56.900 specifics because red light is becoming more and more popular. Like women are doing it, red light 1.00
01:18:03.720 therapy on their face for, you know, even skin tone and so on. Some men are doing, uh, infrared
01:18:10.220 or, or, you know, saunas. What, what is the story with your eyes, exposing your eyes to red light
01:18:18.760 or infrared light? Yeah. So the best zero cost, but perfect source of long wavelength light,
01:18:27.720 meaning red light and infrared light. Infrared light is the warmth. The warmth from the sun
01:18:32.360 is sunlight, right? God built us the perfect light device for our mitochondria, for our skin,
01:18:40.140 for our hormone health, et cetera. There's only one problem. You can't do it on your schedule.
01:18:45.560 you have to do it on the sun schedule because what you want is the long wavelength light so
01:18:50.300 these are the yellows oranges reds and then outpass red is infrared right we can't see it
01:18:55.360 but we can feel it that's the stuff that's great for our mitochondria and that my colleague glenn
01:19:01.200 jeffrey university college london i've known him for decades did these studies as i mentioned
01:19:05.840 earlier shine you get that light on your skin or even through a t-shirt or light shirt and
01:19:11.100 your metabolism is improved, but it also turns out that if you're 40 or older,
01:19:17.180 if you get this long wavelength light on your skin or ideally in your eyes,
01:19:23.440 you can do that from the morning sunlight viewing or afternoon sunlight viewing, sunset viewing,
01:19:28.920 you help repair the cells in the back of the eyes called the photoreceptors. These are the cells that
01:19:35.140 take photons of light, convert them into electrical energy that allows you to see.
01:19:40.240 And you can offset what he showed in that study was that you can offset some of the
01:19:44.840 age-related vision loss. You also offset myopia, which is nearsightedness. Now, I had to start
01:19:51.340 wearing readers recently because of writing this book because I was spending so much time up close
01:19:55.640 to a screen. When you look at things too close up and you don't see horizons very much, you're not
01:20:01.520 looking at a distance very much. The eyeball lengthens and the visual image lands in front
01:20:06.920 of the light sensing portion of the eye, not on it. That's what corrective lenses do. They bring
01:20:11.760 the light point of focus onto the right location. There is a true epidemic of myopia, of nearsightedness
01:20:20.660 and the data on kids and their data emerging on adults too, is that if kids just take their
01:20:27.120 tablets, computers outside. If you get outside more, you offset this. So the long wavelength
01:20:33.060 light turns out to be the key. Sunlight is full spectrum. You have UV, short wavelength, medium,
01:20:38.480 and long wavelength. And the balance is key. You don't want too much UV because it can indeed
01:20:42.640 damage your skin. There's a lot of debate nowadays about how much sunlight. You need some UV for
01:20:47.000 vitamin D production and for mood and health, but you don't want to get a sunburn. And indeed,
01:20:52.640 it can cause accelerated aging in the skin if you're getting too much uv we could talk about
01:20:58.160 that if you like but getting some long wavelength light from sunlight or and or i would say you
01:21:04.500 could get a red light like a red light led device you could use a red incandescent light uh we don't
01:21:09.900 have a lot of farmers out put goggles on you could put so uh so in the evening i will put on short
01:21:15.880 wavelength blocking glasses they look red tinted but that's to block the short wavelengths but
01:21:20.800 when you're out during the day, you're getting a lot of long wavelength light penetrating the skin.
01:21:26.580 It's benefiting you and it's benefiting your eyes. But the study showed this offset of age-related
01:21:31.680 vision loss is when people get enough long wavelength light. And if you're indoors,
01:21:36.640 he's in England. So that study was done where people are spending a lot of time indoors.
01:21:40.720 They're under LED lights, which we all use now because they're more energy efficient.
01:21:45.000 candlelight will do it. So if you light candles in the evening, or if you have a fire in the
01:21:51.420 fireplace, or here's a cool trick. The farmers taught me this. They have an inexpensive solution
01:21:58.960 to all this. You get what they call a pig light. It's a red incandescent bulb, and it supplies
01:22:03.900 long wavelength light. Farmers knew this. It's very interesting, actually, as I've written this
01:22:08.480 book. So you don't have to stare at the bulb. You just have to be near it. It fills the room. And
01:22:12.200 the beauty of long wavelength light is that it bounces off surfaces all over. So you don't have
01:22:16.700 to be looking right at it. If you can get outside in a green space, if I were to give you infrared
01:22:23.220 glasses, goggles, like the special operators wear, you would notice that everything green
01:22:27.940 was glowing white. And that's because the long wavelength light is bouncing off it. It's getting
01:22:33.820 reflected down on you. There's wonderful work showing that recovery from surgery, recovery
01:22:39.180 from illness, staving off illness, including upper respiratory infections, skin health, eye health,
01:22:46.180 longevity is get that long wavelength light. The key is to not get too much UV because that can be
01:22:51.560 damaging. So that's why sunlight can be a little tricky. You like the red light bed?
01:22:56.580 Yeah. But infrared saunas are great if you can afford one. An infrared incandescent light is
01:23:01.940 great. An LED panel, they tend to be pretty expensive, but the incandescent lights are not
01:23:07.780 terribly expensive. And as I've talked to more and more farmers, they laugh, right? They're like,
01:23:13.280 I get up with the sun. I go outside. I'm carrying stuff. I'm doing work. I'm drinking my coffee.
01:23:19.840 Then I have breakfast afterwards. I might catch a quick nap in the afternoon, but I have to go out
01:23:24.860 in the evening, take the animals in, take care of things. I'm not suggesting we go back to living
01:23:28.920 that way, but they nailed it. They nailed it. It wasn't so bad. They nailed all the light.
01:23:33.860 It's funny though, when you mentioned the candlelight, in law school, we had to sit
01:23:37.540 alphabetically. So the guy next to me on the one side was named Andy Kelly. And Andy Kelly was
01:23:42.960 starting to lose his close-up vision, you know, from all the reading in law school and so on.
01:23:47.440 And he told me at the time that he reversed it by staring at candlelight. And I remember being
01:23:54.680 like, really? Is that even possible? And he swore it was possible. And here I am sitting across from
01:23:59.620 human hearing. Yeah, it's possible. I mean, I think the highly processed foods conversation
01:24:05.740 for the next two years, you're going to hear two things I anticipate will be really big in the
01:24:09.900 health space. Cortisol will no longer be seen as this stress hormone. It will be seen as the
01:24:14.420 thing to leverage high morning, low at night. I hope to play a role in that. The other thing that
01:24:19.980 you're going to hear quite a lot about is how all these LED lights, which are incredibly energy
01:24:24.980 efficient. I mean, how often do you have to change a light bulb nowadays? Hardly ever.
01:24:27.960 The problem is they're short wavelength shifted.
01:24:31.000 It's not the blue light.
01:24:32.180 It's that there isn't enough long wavelength light.
01:24:34.460 So we're going to hear about supplementing with long wavelength light.
01:24:37.880 That does not mean you have to buy a red light panel, candlelight, fireplace, get outside
01:24:42.900 when the sun is low in the sky, either near sunrise or near sunset, get that long wavelength
01:24:48.160 light.
01:24:49.420 Immensely beneficial also for mental health and for physical health.
01:24:53.140 It's so interesting that so many of the things we're talking about in health are about undoing
01:24:56.760 the damage from the lifestyle and technologies that we've built. But there's also just a lot of
01:25:03.740 this notion that, oh, we used to be scared of saber-toothed tigers, and that's why we stress.
01:25:08.580 No. I mean, 10,000 years ago, I guarantee that people were concerned about their loved ones when
01:25:13.160 they went off to hunt or gather. Relationships had issues. Kids got sick. Stress has always
01:25:19.020 been a part of life. The key is to teach yourself how to de-stress, to get great sleep, turn your
01:25:25.200 mind off. Get focused and alert. And I'm a consumer of caffeine. And if you want, we could
01:25:31.140 talk about nicotine. But these are just skills that take minutes, if that, to learn because they
01:25:38.060 work the first time and every time. You notice there's no learning curve in anything I'm saying.
01:25:42.200 I'm not saying, listen, if you go outside for three days in a row, then these cells will learn
01:25:45.980 it's morning. No, the first time you do it, it works. We've all heard those radio ads about
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01:29:49.700 It's bold, no BS news, only on the Maiden Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
01:30:00.980 The book spends a fair amount of time talking about focus, motivation, and learning.
01:30:04.840 Chapter six, you go deep on that.
01:30:06.820 So if you need better focus in your life, if you need motivation.
01:30:10.220 But the learning thing was interesting to me.
01:30:14.140 Protocol three I wanted to talk about, embrace errors.
01:30:18.080 There's a whole long bit in the book about embracing errors, saying they embrace the
01:30:24.120 fact that errors are an essential trigger for learning.
01:30:27.500 Errors that come from genuine attempts to learn something are the signal for plasticity
01:30:32.220 to occur.
01:30:33.140 This is true for all forms of skill development, cognitive, motor, musical, mathematical,
01:30:39.820 et cetera.
01:30:40.280 So whether you're learning a sport, a musical instrument, or history, or news for that matter, making errors in the process of learning is critical.
01:30:54.520 So can you expand on that?
01:30:55.600 Yes. So if I could put a banner across the sky, I would want people to understand
01:31:03.560 the following message. The agitation you feel from not being able to do something
01:31:09.900 through a genuine attempt, so not throwaway errors, that agitation is the reflection of
01:31:17.100 the release of certain molecules. We call them neuromodulators in the brain and body
01:31:21.060 that tell your nervous system, you need to change to close the gap between what you're trying to do
01:31:26.920 and what you currently can do. Okay. We don't tell kids this, we don't tell adults this.
01:31:33.240 And so we think the friction that comes from the attempt to learn that that somehow is signaling
01:31:39.000 that we're in the wrong place. No, if you're, if you think about it logically, if your nervous
01:31:43.980 system could do something, if your brain could do it, if your body could do it, why would it change?
01:31:48.680 it wouldn't and we've been so captivated by this concept of flow which is a beautiful concept
01:31:53.900 but this idea of you know forgetting ourselves and just being able to do the skill i mean this
01:31:59.980 is unfortunately the consequence of science fiction and movies where somebody gets the sword
01:32:06.160 they drink the drink they are wake up and you know they get hit by lightning and now they have 0.69
01:32:11.840 superpowers like damn that harry potter right you know like no that's not how it works that's 0.97
01:32:17.340 this thing called fantasy. The way it works is that you know nothing. You go from unskilled 0.99
01:32:24.180 to skilled, skilled to mastery, mastery to virtuosity. How do you do that? You make genuine
01:32:29.640 attempts to do something. In order to do that, you have to be alert and focused. So you have to
01:32:35.180 learn to focus. And I talk about that in that chapter. Then you can't do it. That's the signal
01:32:40.960 your nervous system needs to change. You get some rest from sleep or non-sleep deep rest,
01:32:46.040 ideally both, and you come back a day or two later and you can sort of do the thing.
01:32:52.280 Huh, amazing. We all know this to be true, but it turns out the errors are the signal to your
01:32:57.500 nervous system that needs to change, but your nervous system doesn't know error. It knows that
01:33:01.880 it's your nervous system speaks to the neurons speak to each other in electricity and chemicals.
01:33:07.660 So agitation and, and that low level stress. So alert, but calm, but a little bit stressed
01:33:13.700 that signals it's time to change that here's the best way to think about it if you've ever played
01:33:18.580 that game hot hands where you know your hands are on top of someone else's hands and the the person
01:33:24.600 underneath is going to flip their hands over and hit your hands that's the level of attention and
01:33:28.440 kind of alertness that you need to learn that just to me describes it perfectly you so you're not
01:33:34.280 stressed but you're not too relaxed either so you have to be wrapped with attention and looking for
01:33:41.000 something, ready for something, trying to throw the dart to the bullseye, trying to, you know,
01:33:45.760 hit the, you know, sink the ball, trying to learn the language. So you have to pay attention. There's
01:33:50.920 only so much you can do in a given learning. I call them learning bouts because it should feel
01:33:54.880 like a fight with yourself. And if you're too stressed, you can't do it. Now there's even
01:34:00.740 studies that show that if you take a drug like propranolol, beta blocker, conventional beta
01:34:06.420 blocker. After you try to learn something, you don't learn it because the adrenaline,
01:34:12.580 the adrenaline in your body and norepinephrine in your brain are two of the key neuromodulators
01:34:18.520 for learning. This is why unfortunately traumatic experiences and fortunately are one trial
01:34:25.200 learning, right? If you step off the curb and a car almost hits you, okay, you can probably go
01:34:31.700 about your day okay but you have a changed relationship to that location okay and the
01:34:39.480 what happened was there was a lot of adrenaline and trauma comes about when there's so much
01:34:44.620 adrenaline that it grabs memories that are unassociated with the event so now the sound of
01:34:50.280 cars just gets you ramped up doesn't matter if the car is driving away from you the walking out
01:34:55.500 on the street gets you ramped up and then the processes of also of plasticity where you have
01:34:59.820 to unlearn. Now we call it triggering. You have to unlearn the emotion. So now every form of
01:35:04.460 trauma therapy, whether it's EMDR or it's talk therapy, is about getting you into a calmer
01:35:11.740 emotional state while recounting the event. You're not going to forget the thing. It's about peeling
01:35:16.320 off the emotional load. So when you want to learn something, what I call self-directed adaptive
01:35:21.020 plasticity, it's a bunch of words, but to distinguish it from bad plasticity, because
01:35:25.980 brain damage is a form of plasticity, but it's not one you want. But when you're trying to learn
01:35:30.020 something, you have to be alert so you can be focused. I talk about ways to do that. Should
01:35:34.080 you or should you not use caffeine or nicotine? Should you or should you not take a cold shower
01:35:38.780 first? Well, the best way to get alert is to have a good night's sleep the night before.
01:35:42.520 But caffeine helps too. Hydration helps too. And if you really care about something,
01:35:48.000 that helps too, right? Even kids with severe ADHD can concentrate on their favorite video game.
01:35:53.300 we know this they don't have a focus issue they have a focus on things they don't like issue
01:35:57.660 adults as well this is important and then they you focus and then you have to try and do something
01:36:03.520 i'm trying i'm trying and people i hear it all the time i'm not good at that i'm not good at that
01:36:08.680 why i don't know it stresses me out great now's the opportunity to learn one of the reasons why
01:36:14.540 exercise helps your brain i mean there are many reasons helps with better oxygenation of the brain
01:36:20.080 better sleep, et cetera. But one of the reasons that you learn so much better in the four or five
01:36:24.720 hours after exercise is that it makes you more alert because you have epinephrine and norepinephrine
01:36:29.460 circulating in your brain and body. So a lot of the positive effects of exercise are, it's true,
01:36:36.740 I should say that yes, exercise makes your brain better, but really it should be exercise gives you
01:36:42.460 the opportunity to learn. You don't get smarter by exercising. Anyone that's known like a pure
01:36:47.400 jock can attest to that. That's a joke against my jock friends. But anyone that just exercises
01:36:54.220 isn't getting smarter, that's not true. It gives you the opportunity to learn because you come out
01:36:59.860 of that exercise, provided you didn't exhaust yourself. We're not talking two hours of squats
01:37:04.540 or something. You come out of that exercise and you feel different. Why? What is that? Dopamine,
01:37:10.900 epinephrine, norepinephrine, the so-called catecholamines, that cocktail of neurochemicals
01:37:15.320 primes you for learning. So 2026, 27, come out of exercise. Maybe you read for a moment. Maybe
01:37:23.720 you sit and do some emotional learning. You know, some people are trying to be a better spouse.
01:37:29.400 They're trying to be better to themselves. And this sounds so silly, right? But to sit there 0.83
01:37:33.940 and think, you know, I'm going to try and be a little bit kinder to myself today or to other
01:37:38.100 people. It sounds really squishy, right? But if you're in a certain state of mind, it actually
01:37:44.280 works. It carries over. But just telling yourself, I'm going to be a nicer person is like saying,
01:37:49.660 you know, I'm going to be kinder to myself. That's about as effective as telling yourself,
01:37:53.880 you know, I'm going to learn fluent Japanese by saying, I'm going to learn fluent Japanese.
01:37:58.240 No, it's the state that you're in when you set that intention to learn. It's the state that
01:38:04.500 you're in when you arrive at the learning. And so we can all learn new things. It's just a function
01:38:10.820 of being alert, being focused, and getting into that agitation, and then going and doing something
01:38:16.600 else, and you'll come back better. You will master that skill over time.
01:38:22.420 Well, you write about personal growth in the book, and I was actually just talking about this
01:38:27.040 with my audience. I've mentioned it many times. People generally know it, but I was saying,
01:38:31.660 and this is in your book as well, in my view, the less time spent thinking about the past,
01:38:39.520 the better. I just, I try to stay away from it. And I've had a great life. It's not because I
01:38:45.840 had a ton of trauma. I had some things, but I definitely don't ruminate on them. And when I
01:38:50.920 start going to them, I try to get myself off of them and I can pretty quickly. I just find no good
01:38:55.580 comes from it. And I'm trying to teach my kids that same skill. Like there's really no point
01:39:00.100 in just ruminating or going back or reliving some unfortunate moment. The less time spent
01:39:05.100 thinking about it, the better. And kind of the same about the future. Like some planning is
01:39:11.900 required to exist on this earth and make something out of yourself. You know, you have to figure out
01:39:16.100 if you want to take a big vacation in June and it's December, you might need to buy an airline
01:39:20.160 ticket and so on. But the best thing for happiness is to be in the present. And they say that all the
01:39:25.900 time now. And it is harder, it's easier said than done. But you've got some tips in the book, which
01:39:32.960 I thought were quite clever. Again, the book is called Protocols by Andrew Huberman right here.
01:39:39.020 You can get it on pre-order right now. It's coming out soon. And I thought these were clever,
01:39:44.520 like questions that you can ask about your environment that will bring you right into the
01:39:50.500 room unavoidably. Yeah, the past. Okay, two most dangerous words in the English language are if
01:39:56.800 only uh i stand by that i didn't say that someone once said that to me you you cannot live in if
01:40:03.120 only that that that that is death that that is spiritual death that's uh so that i'll just leave
01:40:11.140 there as a to me a hard truth i will say i'll put it a different way as my as my dear friend 0.97
01:40:17.520 always says the the past is like your ass behind you so um being the data that's a good one the
01:40:26.160 The data definitely say, large-scale data sets definitely say that being present correlates 0.97
01:40:33.760 with happiness.
01:40:35.180 And that's true even if you're in unpleasant present circumstances.
01:40:41.560 So you're with someone who's sick in the hospital.
01:40:43.940 Interesting.
01:40:44.880 Try not to distract yourself.
01:40:46.640 But you need to sleep to be a great caretaker.
01:40:48.800 So I'm going to put two caveats and then total agreement.
01:40:53.180 The first caveat is there's a section in the book where I talk about data from this guy named James Pennebaker, who developed a tool called expressive writing, where if there's something in the back of your mind that you can't shake, an experience you cannot shake, a time when you experience shame or a trauma, there are now tens of thousands of quality studies showing that if you take 15 minutes, but just 15, not more,
01:41:21.020 and you write about that four days in a row by the end of the fourth day you will have
01:41:28.840 significantly offloaded a lot of the emotional load of that thing so i want to be fair to that
01:41:34.940 so if there's something that like i use the term sometimes that you know there are these
01:41:38.240 past experiences that are kind of like barbed wire like we they're painful to get off and
01:41:42.120 they're painful to stay on i mean you know so that pennebaker exercise costs nothing you can
01:41:48.700 tear up the paper afterwards. Actually, I suggest you do, but you do it four days in a row. You will
01:41:53.580 feel significantly better. Say the data. Pretty incredible. Writing does seem to be important,
01:41:59.500 handwriting it out. Set a timer, do it. You will come out of that first session not feeling great,
01:42:05.140 but you'll move about your day. Symptoms of health, immune system function improves.
01:42:10.840 They've done all the measures of biology and psychology that one would want to see,
01:42:14.080 and it's really impressive. Okay. So that, that aside, the other thing is I'll just mention a
01:42:19.820 saying I didn't come up with, but I, that I love is, and it's harsh, but the difference between
01:42:26.120 winners and losers is the following. Losers take things that happened to them, happened to them,
01:42:33.120 or that they did that they wish they hadn't done. And they take the negative feelings around those 0.93
01:42:39.200 things and they use it for self or outward destruction winners i think we would all agree
01:42:47.080 take the hard things that happen to them as well as the gifts they've been given they think about
01:42:53.340 them as much as they need to but then they transmute that those experiences maybe years
01:42:59.560 of experience into things that are good for them and for the world period end of story i know it's
01:43:05.740 harsh, winners and losers. But let's face it, most of the bad stuff in the world is because
01:43:10.360 people are taking bad stuff that happened to them and doing bad stuff. They feel justified in doing
01:43:14.720 it. There's some full-blown psychosis type stuff. Let me just interject quickly. Last week, we
01:43:21.200 watched the Novak Djokovic documentary, The Wolf of Winter. He's impressive. Which is, I think,
01:43:26.340 on Netflix right now. And of course, he's like, he's the goat. And that's saying something in
01:43:30.580 the world of tennis, because there are others who are just right there with him. But he's got the
01:43:35.140 most wins when it comes to grand slams, which is how they measure it. So the movie, It's Two Hours
01:43:41.220 Long, is very good. But Djokovic is a controversial guy, or was very controversial when he started in
01:43:47.080 the tennis world, because he was less mature. He did some mocking of other players. He suddenly
01:43:53.080 got injured in matches that he was losing when he was younger. And this turned a lot of people on
01:43:58.160 him. And for years, he was booed. He was never the favorite. They created a rivalry in tennis
01:44:04.760 between Federer and Nadal. Djokovic wasn't part of it, even though he was up and coming and then
01:44:10.340 very much was in it with those two, but would be the lesser than. He has a line in his documentary,
01:44:15.940 table for three, please. But they weren't giving this to him because he was never the favorite.
01:44:22.420 And what Djokovic talked about was there's something in Serbian culture called in it
01:44:27.540 that makes you thrive on that. And people who aren't Serbian or don't have that natural mindset
01:44:34.440 that couldn't understand that all those boos and treating him like a second-class citizen
01:44:38.680 and making him feel like odd man out, even when he was number one in the world,
01:44:43.060 only fueled him to win more.
01:44:46.840 And in fact, he's somebody who kind of needs it in order to win.
01:44:50.760 So all of his detractors were inadvertently helping him.
01:44:54.360 Now it's changed.
01:44:56.340 He's beloved and he's matured and he's totally likable in this documentary entirely.
01:45:00.480 But in any event, when you talk about that, that's what I'm thinking of.
01:45:03.180 somebody who takes what could be traumatizing for someone else, being openly booed by the entire
01:45:11.660 stadium at the Australian Open, which you've won something like 16 times and where you should be a
01:45:17.300 king because you leave after getting seriously hurt. This is later in his career. Openly booed?
01:45:23.280 What? You could be talking about that as your trauma on a self-help show. Instead, it's fuel
01:45:31.460 for him, and it's a positive. So this is what you're talking about.
01:45:35.100 Look, it goes back to the beginning of our conversation. The biggest mistake I made in
01:45:40.800 life, the biggest mistake, and I own it completely, even though I was only 14, was
01:45:45.980 taking the circumstances of my family life at the time and not continuing to apply myself in
01:45:54.020 certain areas of life I should have. You could say, well, you're only 14. Okay, fine. And it
01:45:59.520 it all worked out. But it was a moment, and I talk about this in the book, it was a moment,
01:46:04.600 it was a physical altercation when I was first year away at school that made me realize if I
01:46:11.840 don't take the hard things that have happened and do something with my life, no one's going to care
01:46:18.980 and I won't have any self-respect. The story of a hard childhood is something that we feel
01:46:25.660 compassion for. But I realized I was like, I'm going to be like a genuine loser. I was like, 0.85
01:46:30.600 I'm going to be a genuine loser. It doesn't matter what else I do unless I actually turn 0.97
01:46:36.560 my life into something worthwhile. And I started developing agency. I started running. I started
01:46:40.820 exercising. I started studying. And I had to fasten myself to a chair with a timer. I had to,
01:46:47.400 I mean, I will say, and I know people work, I worked like a maniac and I still work very,
01:46:54.820 very hard. And so I have great respect for anyone that can take hardship or shame. And I've had
01:46:59.940 other things like my advisors dying and mistakes I've made. And there's this transmutation,
01:47:05.080 we call it. You take the negative energy and you have to like pretzel twisted into this expression
01:47:11.580 that is good for you and for the world, or at least not destructive. I mean, I think this is
01:47:15.860 why Djokovic or like, or David Goggins, you know, we love these people because they're doing it.
01:47:23.980 we can feel David's pain. I mean, I've sat down with David. I knew him before he had a book and
01:47:29.320 got famous. And he was the exact same guy. We actually were at a meeting in San Jose. This is
01:47:33.680 a wild story. And we finished up this meeting. It was a private meeting, wasn't being recorded.
01:47:38.000 And he said, I'm going to run to the airport. He meant run to the airport. He put on his back,
01:47:43.400 he ran like 16 miles to San Jose airport. No book, no fame, no nothing, no cameras.
01:47:49.100 and I was like... Luggage? He just like rocked his backpack. It was incredible. And I thought
01:47:55.580 that's where our, you know, I don't see him that much, but you know, cause he's off on his own
01:47:59.800 running, but I've got a bunch of Goggin stories from before he got famous and he was the same
01:48:03.980 guy. He's in a battle with himself, the self-hate voice. He came on my podcast. Every day he hears
01:48:09.720 you're a piece of garbage that came from the outside, but eventually he internalized. 1.00
01:48:14.100 and when you realize that it's all in your head you realize that you can and need to flip the 1.00
01:48:20.300 script flip the script and there's nothing more beautiful about humans is than our ability to do
01:48:28.000 this and for people who don't have intense hardship what because a lot of times now kids
01:48:32.020 will come to me and be like i don't have the trauma story i'm like great well don't get soft
01:48:37.040 you know like you didn't have that you know and a lot of wealthy parents approach me what do i do 0.99
01:48:41.800 my kid is like a total loser. They don't, or my kid doesn't want to work because they got all
01:48:46.820 this dopamine. They got everything they wanted with no effort. Dopamine and rewards without
01:48:52.340 effort first destroy a human. It just destroys a human. It's like giving your dog a treat just
01:48:57.780 for being cute. You get a, you get an unhealthy dog that dies early. Fact. The dogs have, we all
01:49:04.680 have this, sometimes it's more latent than in others than in others, but we have this desire
01:49:09.740 to work. We want that friction and overcome that. That's what makes us feel so alive and that we
01:49:15.560 have capacity. And then of course, peace and joy and meaning, it doesn't have to all be about the
01:49:20.500 grind, but everyone will tell you that the peace and meaning and love and connection, that's all
01:49:26.520 much better on a backdrop of hard work. End of story. So I don't believe in focusing on the past,
01:49:34.660 but I do believe in transmuting your past into goodness for you and for others. And I believe
01:49:39.920 that if something, if you're really stuck, you're really stuck, you need to get off the barbed wire.
01:49:46.900 And that Pennebaker writing exercise costs nothing, has been shown to be very effective.
01:49:51.420 And the idea is that you do it and then you move on. It's not that you do it every day. You do it
01:49:56.020 and then you move on. The other piece, I'm sorry. I just want to raise what you wrote in chapter
01:50:03.480 seven, because you give people this actual tool, writing, if your thoughts are elsewhere,
01:50:09.340 re-tether them to the present. Ask questions anchored in your current surroundings. This is
01:50:15.560 such a good tool. Like I've never heard somebody do this before because they just say, be in the
01:50:20.020 present, be in the present, be in the moment, which is very hard for somebody who's a worrier
01:50:24.300 or an obsessor about the past. And you suggest, ask questions like, how cold or warm is it in
01:50:32.440 this room? What does it smell like? How many people in line in front of me are on their phone,
01:50:38.040 et cetera. But something you say, I realize this is trivial, but it returns your perceptions
01:50:42.740 to the present because they can only be answered right here and now. I love this.
01:50:50.280 Yeah. So that came about because somewhere around 2015, look, I was about to get tenure at Stanford.
01:50:58.200 my life was great, but I noticed I had accumulated a lot of stress and I started studying stress
01:51:03.400 and stress mitigation. And I found no one could give me a real-time tool for de-stressing fast.
01:51:09.140 Then I discovered the physiological sigh. It had been around since the thirties,
01:51:12.800 but I was hearing all about grit, resilience, and mental toughness. And no one was telling me how,
01:51:17.700 just all these amazing stories of people being gritty. I'm like, how do you do it? I'm a
01:51:20.960 scientist. I want to know about cells, circuits, mechanisms, and protocols. So then I was seeing
01:51:27.280 you know the bumper stickers be here now beautiful quote from ram das where you hear your your life
01:51:34.040 is what your thoughts make it which by the way came first from the bible but then you find in
01:51:38.040 every philosopher said that but then like how do you do that be present i mean there's nothing
01:51:42.340 squishier to me than be present how great tell me how and and you can tell i get a little irritated
01:51:47.980 by i don't i really don't like um hippie wellness i have friends that listen to grateful dead and
01:51:53.960 I like a few of their songs, but I'm not beating up on hippies. I don't like these terms like
01:52:00.580 calm down or just take a deep breath. No, it turns out it's all wrong. So the be present thing,
01:52:08.380 I thought, I'm a neuroscientist. What do I know for sure? I know that we can be planning. A lot
01:52:14.500 of the brain's function is to predict things. Thank goodness. We can remember things. Great,
01:52:20.240 unless we're focused on negative things from the past, as you pointed out, that are keeping us from
01:52:23.900 moving forward in life or it's self-damaging or harming others. That's not good. Also focusing
01:52:29.220 on your trauma all the time is not solving it. It's amplifying those circuits. So you need to
01:52:33.640 move past it. And then I started exploring the neuroscience of perception and what brings the
01:52:40.360 brain from a state of thinking and planning and remembering things of past. So stuck in the past
01:52:45.560 or the future to being right in the present. And it turns out you have to just get into sensation
01:52:49.780 and you need to get into perceptions and asking questions. The brain loves questions. Questions
01:52:56.000 help shift the brain from one state to another. So if I could just look at the data, and I looked
01:53:02.340 at the data on how to get present, it turns out you have people pay attention to seemingly trivial
01:53:08.020 things like, how cold am I? What does it feel like? The contact of my legs to the chair I'm
01:53:13.180 sitting on, something I wasn't thinking about. All of a sudden, it's not about what you're
01:53:17.840 focusing on. It's now what you're not focusing on. And once you're in the present, then the brain
01:53:22.660 can more easily shift to the positive things that you can do to have some agency over your
01:53:27.620 current conditions. We hear a lot about agency. This is so good. This is very helpful. Yeah. So
01:53:32.420 when you're feeling like you don't have control of your life, you can go online and watch something
01:53:36.420 and says, if you're on X, it's all about agency, right? It's kind of like, it's all about agency
01:53:40.720 On Instagram, not anymore, but it's about more entertainment and victim stuff.
01:53:47.240 Who's the victim?
01:53:48.520 I'm the victim.
01:53:49.300 They're the victim.
01:53:50.040 Who's the victim?
01:53:50.680 No, he's the aggressor.
01:53:52.460 Mine is on cute hair tricks, but okay.
01:53:54.220 Or that.
01:53:54.720 I like the bulldog stuff, and there's other stuff too.
01:53:57.820 But I'm kind of talking at the extremes.
01:54:01.340 But how do you have agency?
01:54:04.060 Well, you have to get present because you can't have agency over the past.
01:54:07.480 You sure can't have agency over the future unless you take care of the right now.
01:54:11.480 How do you do that?
01:54:12.620 And it's interesting because kids learn this very fast if you teach them.
01:54:16.360 I've taught many kids the physiological side and when they're stressed to just focus on
01:54:21.480 what's around them.
01:54:22.600 And they learn it so fast.
01:54:24.900 But as adults, we have these well-charted reflexes to, gosh, I'm thinking about that
01:54:31.120 thing again.
01:54:31.640 I can't stop thinking about that thing.
01:54:32.720 And then people think that they're ruminating and indeed they're ruminating.
01:54:36.120 Then they wonder if it's trauma and it might be, I mean, there are real traumas that need
01:54:40.140 to be overcome.
01:54:41.040 I talk about that in the book, but just the simple thing of saying, you know, how cold
01:54:45.460 or warm is this thing I'm holding that shifts the brain in the direction you want to go.
01:54:50.980 That's not where you want to stop, but it brings you back to the present so you can
01:54:54.380 continue forward in the present.
01:54:56.940 This is, and so there's a lot of discussion in there about brain states.
01:54:59.860 You really don't want to stop on what does it smell like in here.
01:55:02.520 Right, right.
01:55:03.200 So that's really about brain states.
01:55:04.340 That will bring you right into the room.
01:55:05.420 Exactly, right.
01:55:06.120 So it's about brain states. It's about understanding that the brain doesn't go from
01:55:10.620 sleep to awake, from stress to calm. It's that you need to do things to bridge
01:55:14.980 these states, to get from one state to another. And you have that power in your mind and body.
01:55:20.340 And so I try and provide tools that represent the fastest and most seamless path to those
01:55:26.320 that doesn't require any learning. And all you have to learn how to do them, but there's no,
01:55:32.220 it's not like you you need to master the skill you have the skill you just haven't exercised it
01:55:37.240 before yeah you probably weren't asking the right questions now because you've mentioned a couple
01:55:42.480 times can you tell us about the physiological sigh the physiological side that so that's the
01:55:47.220 double inhale long exhale so that's the and then the exhale through the mouth okay and our study
01:55:57.920 on that a few years back. We had people do that repeatedly, showed that if you were to repeat that
01:56:03.060 and compare to say a meditation practice or to box breathing, which is inhale, hold, exhale,
01:56:09.640 hold, or to a meditation practice, what you would find is they all have some benefit,
01:56:13.440 but the physiological side allows you to calm down the fastest and it improves your sleep.
01:56:19.080 It improves your mood and it improves resting heart rate, heart rate variability. It just has
01:56:25.340 so many positive effects and it's so simple and it costs nothing. And if you don't remember to do
01:56:31.200 it every day, you just do it every once in a while. And I know it, I know, no, no. I have
01:56:36.180 neurosurgeon friends who use it. I have tier one operator friends who use it. I know eight-year-old
01:56:43.360 kids who use it. Moms, you know, like even my dog does it, but they do it reflexively. If you watch
01:56:49.220 your dog before they go down to sleep, they do a double inhale. Yeah, you write this in the book.
01:56:53.680 long exhale and it's to balance their carbon dioxide oxygen ratios. Dogs are so smart because
01:56:58.960 they don't worry about stuff. Not mine, but most. Yeah. It's wonderful to see that others have that
01:57:05.220 in their pets. Let's talk about nicotine and caffeine because especially nicotine is all the
01:57:11.360 rage right now. The little packs that people put in their mouths. What's the story with nicotine?
01:57:17.300 Okay. Well, 90% of the world uses caffeine every single day and they're not going to quit. And I
01:57:22.900 love caffeine. The data say it can offset dementia. If you don't like caffeine-
01:57:27.440 And you say to take it before exercise or drink it, whatever.
01:57:30.460 Yeah. You drink yerba mate, which is what I like, or coffee I like as well. People have
01:57:34.940 different caffeine tolerances. I will say if you don't like caffeine, don't go drink it to try and
01:57:39.880 offset dementia. You'll be fine. But if you do like caffeine, you don't have to worry. I don't
01:57:45.360 recommend drinking caffeine too late in the day because it can mess up your sleep, but I love a
01:57:49.480 2 p.m. espresso. I love it, I have to say. And I drink it, and I sleep fine.
01:57:57.620 Nicotine is a special one because humans throughout history, ever since they discovered
01:58:02.720 nicotine, have found a way to get it into their systems. Then they discover it causes cancer,
01:58:06.580 they find a new way, they create vaping. Then they find out that vaping isn't good for you,
01:58:11.300 not as bad as smoking, but it's still terrible, causes all sorts of lung issues. So then now
01:58:16.400 oral nicotine is all the rage. Here's the deal. I'll tell you the positive first.
01:58:23.040 Nicotine, there is some evidence, some evidence that it may help offset Parkinson's and dementia
01:58:30.000 before it forms. Okay. Why? It increases acetylcholine, which is one of the major
01:58:36.760 neuromodulators that's depleted in many forms of dementia, and it increases dopamine and
01:58:43.060 movement and parkinson's and dopamine that whole story is about loss of dopaminergic neurons most
01:58:48.900 treatments for parkinson's are about increasing dopamine so the problem is that nicotine is
01:58:56.240 extremely habit-forming slash addicting okay it it's an amazing stimulant because it makes you
01:59:02.720 alert but it also makes you feel calm it puts you in that perfect state for learning and for
01:59:07.820 most daytime activities, but it also raises blood pressure, which in particular for men
01:59:13.940 can cause cardiovascular issues and sexual health issues because it's a blood flow inhibitor,
01:59:19.540 right? So nicotine can cause problems if taken in excess. But the big problem is that now people
01:59:25.860 take one, you know, let's say a three to six or even eight milligram pouch of nicotine
01:59:31.220 and they feel great. And then they're doing two a day, then three a day. And then pretty soon you
01:59:38.000 need an entire canister every few days just to be normal. Same thing with caffeine. Most people
01:59:45.000 are drinking caffeine and using nicotine just to be at their normal level of alertness. So if you
01:59:48.820 really want to use nicotine as a cognitive enhancer, as a healthy person, you use it very
01:59:54.380 occasionally, three to six milligrams, maybe two to three times a week maximum, one pouch.
02:00:00.820 But most people don't do that. They're quickly into multiple pouches per day.
02:00:04.900 So it's sort of, when I say it's a cognitive enhancer, that's with occasional use. And the
02:00:10.220 same goes for caffeine. You need to be alert to get focused. Most people need caffeine just to
02:00:14.680 be alert. So you don't get any learning benefit or cognitive benefit from caffeine. You're just
02:00:19.680 getting yourself into that plane of alertness that allows you to function. But I love caffeine
02:00:25.040 so much. Um, I love yerba mate. I love coffee and you're not going to take it away from me.
02:00:31.160 And, um, I just love it. And, and I, so I like to acknowledge that some people really like their
02:00:36.540 nicotine, but if you're going to use nicotine, make sure you check your blood pressure and
02:00:40.900 ideally you're exercising too. I will say a lot of the guys that I know, it does seem to be mostly
02:00:45.280 guys. I went out to, I won't mention which, but a big military school on the East Coast.
02:00:51.540 And I did an informal poll of how many of the 4,000 students use nicotine and about two-thirds
02:00:56.580 of the hands in the room went up. And then when I spoke to the sports teams, it was like
02:01:00.180 almost all of them are using nicotine. But they're athletes, they're young,
02:01:05.420 they're running around. Do I suggest it? Not really. But if you're doing that as opposed
02:01:10.280 to smoking cigarettes or vaping, great. Definitely be safer for you than alcohol.
02:01:13.960 and i'm not a big fan of cannabis some people can do it without issues but it does predispose
02:01:19.820 to psychosis in some people it's a whole story into itself this gets very political i'm happy
02:01:24.780 to talk about it but what i i did a podcast showing that there are strong data showing that
02:01:29.460 thc especially in young males can predispose them to permanent psychosis these very strong thc
02:01:34.760 products not all but a lot of them and i got vehemently attacked by the left they were like
02:01:42.180 misinformation what are you doing i'm like listen i i gave the balanced picture i don't tell people
02:01:46.860 what to do but know what you're doing heard from many parents and people like my kid is schizophrenic
02:01:52.020 because of and this is real right then there were some movements on the right the administration
02:01:59.280 was trying to actually make some of the laws around cannabis a little bit more liberal and
02:02:04.140 then all of a sudden the left started attacking cannabis and so i started realizing like of course
02:02:09.340 I don't get political, but I realize, okay, most media, I know you don't do this, but most media,
02:02:15.400 they actually are not reporting the issue from a place of heart and understanding of data.
02:02:19.800 They're just kind of going, it's like my team, your team's stuff. So the data are this. Some
02:02:24.080 people can use cannabis, no problem. It nukes your deep or your rapid eye movement sleep. That's not
02:02:29.940 good. But some people can do it, no problem. The edible is not a problem for them. Other people,
02:02:34.740 it causes apathy, psychotic issues, one or the other, or in some cases, both. And so you just
02:02:41.320 need to be very careful. And I will tell you, I've only had the experience of being male,
02:02:45.440 and I will tell you, young males should not use cannabis. You want to develop your life. You want
02:02:51.200 to be ambitious, as ambitious as you can, while being a kind person and taking care of yourself.
02:02:57.280 cannabis except for extremely talented creatives is a motivation success inhibitor i don't know 0.87
02:03:06.260 the data for females as well because we don't have a lot of female specific data on it so that's why
02:03:12.760 i just sort of mentioned that but i will tell you when young guys are like how do you feel about thc
02:03:17.220 i'm like i love it when my competitors take thc in anything you better hope that all your
02:03:23.000 competitors take THC because it's a complete killer. I think many of mine do. Yeah. And then
02:03:29.080 I will say, someone will come along every once in a while and they'll say, I know this athlete
02:03:33.220 who uses cannabis and they're a super athlete. Or my grandfather smoked and drank every day and
02:03:39.960 lived to be 102. To those stories, I always say, yeah, well, you know, yesterday, and this is a
02:03:45.600 true story, I sat down with somebody whose dad did everything right and got a glioma. So you're
02:03:51.040 always, and died. So you're always going to have these, these margin cases at the extremes where
02:03:55.640 someone does everything right and still get sick and dies. And someone does everything wrong and
02:04:00.320 still lives a long, healthy life. But most people are not at those extremes. And so if you're going
02:04:05.940 to use the excuse, like I'm going to do everything wrong and be okay, forget it. The data say that's
02:04:11.300 very unlikely. Or if you say, I'm going to do everything right. And I'm certain that I'm going
02:04:16.260 to live to be 150. Well, that's not true either. That's not true either. And so what you want to
02:04:22.700 do is most things right most of the time and avoid the pitfalls that could cause psychosis
02:04:28.780 or drunk driving. I mean, we sort of know this, it's logic, but the health messaging has gotten
02:04:33.920 very contaminated by the political sphere in a way that I think has hurt a lot of people.
02:04:39.600 I just want people to have the information. No, I laugh because my nana, God love her,
02:04:44.820 my mom's mom lived to be 101 and she ate at least in the last 30 years of her life. She ate nothing
02:04:51.200 but processed foods. She never saw exercise in any way, shape or form. She walked a little bit
02:04:56.500 around her senior citizens complex that she lived in, lived on her own until she was a hundred and
02:05:00.980 a half. Amazing. This is your grandmother. And yeah, my Nana, she was stressed out all the things
02:05:06.640 that we're not supposed to do, but that's of course the exception, not the rule. We can't go
02:05:11.340 by that. I thought the exercise and the eating advice in the book was very sound and it was right
02:05:17.560 along the lines of what you're saying. Nothing extreme, you know, a normal sort of natural foods
02:05:24.300 diet, less processed, the better. And exercise, yes, weight training, cardiovascular, as well as
02:05:30.720 walking, you know, a few times a week in addition to like cardiovascular training, all good.
02:05:36.360 But we only have a couple minutes left. Can you just hit, so for the quick learners or the people
02:05:43.280 who just want to get a quick highlight, what are the top three things you want them to take away
02:05:47.980 when it comes to their wellness, what they can learn from your experience?
02:05:54.900 Bright mornings that involve light, ideally from sunlight or artificial lights, some movement,
02:06:01.300 some hydration. I'm a big proponent of prayer, meditation, things that orient you to what's
02:06:08.220 really important. For me, that's prayer in the morning and before going to sleep at night.
02:06:12.280 These things have an outsized positive effect on your health and your mood and your ability to
02:06:17.540 focus all day long. The second thing would be do a long exhale or ideally two inhales through your
02:06:24.440 nose, a long exhale through your mouth. Anytime you feel stressed or even a couple of times
02:06:28.060 throughout the day. You'll improve your heart rate variability, your resting heart rate.
02:06:32.900 You'll find that you actually can handle stress very well. You'll lower your baseline levels of
02:06:38.160 stress and you'll feel more control over your mind and body in a way that carries over to everything.
02:06:44.620 That tool works anywhere and everywhere unless you're underwater. And then darken your sleeping
02:06:50.000 environment, cool it down and do some long exhale breathing before sleep. And those three things,
02:06:56.860 And of course, you still need to do some exercise, try and walk a bunch and lift some heavy objects now and again, heavy for you. Get your heart rate up doing some exercise. Don't eat too much processed food, this kind of thing, the things we all know. But if you do those three things, you will find that everything gets better right away.
02:07:15.020 daytime energy ability to mitigate stress learning presence with emotional presence
02:07:22.400 and physical presence with people you love your ability to just enjoy life a bit more
02:07:27.820 to pivot your brain state and to reset in that magical phase of our 24-hour cycle sleep that
02:07:35.260 no one seems to get away with out doing for very long those things you'll look better you'll feel
02:07:40.700 better, you will be healthier, you will live longer. And it sounds like good old fashioned
02:07:44.740 advice. Because I'm saying sleep right, exercise, don't stress, social connection. But what no one,
02:07:51.600 I will, you know, you know, with humility aside, and humbly, I'll say also, no one ever told us
02:07:58.620 how. It's like, we're told what not to do. So I'm not going to bark at you to not drink or not do
02:08:04.360 this or not. I'm going to tell you, do those things. And also learn to enjoy them. They're
02:08:08.800 for you. And there's, so you can show up better for yourself and other people in life. Learn to
02:08:13.920 enjoy them. They're your God-given circuits and molecules. Like we all have them and put them to
02:08:18.640 use. And if you miss a couple of days, no big deal, get, get right back on it. They take seconds
02:08:23.020 to minutes. They cost nothing. They're available to you in some form every single day. And the,
02:08:29.140 I mean, there's over 1200 references in the book that support what I'm saying. I'm not coming up
02:08:33.860 with this stuff. I'm not naming it after me. These are not the Huberman protocols. This is your body,
02:08:38.620 your physiology, your brain, your mind, and you deserve to get the best from them. And that's my
02:08:43.400 deep, deep wish for people. I've seen it. I've experienced how they can help. I've seen how it
02:08:49.160 can help others. I just want those for the world. I really, really do.
02:08:54.480 You got to get the book now. It's going to sell out. It's called Protocols by Andrew Huberman,
02:09:01.040 an operating manual for the human body. Don't wait. It's going to hit the stores soon,
02:09:06.320 but you want to get it now because it'll sell out and then you won't have it. It's a pleasure.
02:09:11.300 Thank you so much for coming on. I hope I get to talk to you again.
02:09:13.960 Thanks so much for hosting me. Forgive me that in my excitement, various times I
02:09:18.240 inadvertently spoke over you. I'm a big fan and I really appreciate the opportunity to
02:09:24.200 connect to your audience and really enjoyed your questions. Indeed, I learned a lot during
02:09:28.420 this conversation. So thank you. Oh, the pleasure is ours. All the best to you and
02:09:32.300 good luck with the book. Thank you very much. See you again. Bye for now. Wow. What a guy. So
02:09:36.900 interesting. The book is big, but it's an easy read and you can go, you know, chapter to chapter,
02:09:41.700 like he was saying, just pick the one on whatever, sleep, nutrition, et cetera, whatever interests
02:09:45.280 you. And actually really genuinely will make a great gift as we go, oh my God, into the Christmas
02:09:49.960 season. I mean, that's what's next here as we say goodbye to the 80 degree days. Thank you all so
02:09:54.580 much for listening. Don't forget to go out and buy protocols today. Thanks for listening to the
02:09:59.320 megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear
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