00:03:32.120But but never, never non-consensual. Never did I have to or try to or succeed in forcing myself on a woman against her will. Say again, Deb, we have that. That's that. Yeah. OK, let's watch it.
00:03:47.960And what fame gave me and what addiction fuelled was an opportunity for endless consent, which led me to be a hedonist and a fool and an exploiter of women.0.99
00:04:00.880And that is wrong. And that is something that needs to be redeemed and addressed and atoned for.0.95
00:04:07.620What I'm obviously not only querying, but violently or aggressively or assertively opposing is the idea that this is a judicial criminal matter where consent was overridden.
00:04:20.420okay um so the way it works in the uk is we considered going over there and covering this
00:04:29.460trial but we decided not to when we found out that if you sit in the courtroom as a journalist
00:04:34.600you then are relegated to on the evening newscast only reporting what you heard in the courtroom
00:04:43.080you're not allowed to do any independent legal analysis which is crazy i mean for somebody like
00:04:48.620me, that defeats the point. I'm not going to do this story just presenting testimonials. I'm going
00:04:53.800to try to contextualize it for you guys, and we need to talk about it. So we have been listening
00:04:58.680to multiple podcasts and reading multiple reports about what's happening in that courtroom. Right
00:05:03.520now, the prosecution is still presenting its case with its witnesses. So all we've heard of Russell's
00:05:07.580defense is the cross-examinations of these witnesses. The defense case is not yet in
00:05:14.800progress. So keep that in mind and know that he vigorously denies all of these charges. And we
00:05:19.900will get to some of the cross-examinations. But joining me is Viva Fry. He's Rumble creator and
00:05:25.260former litigator. Along with Mark Eiglarsh, he's co-host of Positively Legal. And Matt Murphy,
00:05:31.020co-host of In the Well. Both are available on the MK True Crime podcast channel and on our
00:05:37.000YouTube channel as well. The sports calendar is on fire and the score bet has you covered with
00:05:43.260breaking news and betting seamlessly connected every play every stat every score giving you the
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00:06:08.080Standard message and data rates may apply.
00:06:38.08027. See conditions at airfrance.ca. Guys, great to see you. Let me just start with a broad
00:06:45.240broad based question, because I know you guys have boned up on what's being said inside that
00:06:49.780courtroom and the female testimonials and ask you how you think it's going. Matt, I'll start with
00:06:55.260you. Well, for one thing, Megan, it's kind of bizarre. You just hit on it. There's no First
00:07:00.880Amendment in the UK, which means there's these very strict limitations on what can be reported.
00:07:06.040And I know Mark has probably been thinking the same thing I have.
00:07:09.680I would love to see these women testify so that I can get a read on what's going on.
00:07:20.240And you talked about the limitations on media.
00:07:23.960It goes beyond even what you mentioned.
00:07:25.840You are—if you're reporting on it and you go to that courtroom, you then also fall under the jurisdiction of that court.
00:07:31.920And you can be held to account criminally.
00:07:33.740They call it it's like jigsaw, jigsaw reconstruction is I'm not getting the exact terms right, but they the sexual assault victims or alleged sexual assault victims in the UK have a right to lifetime anonymity.
00:07:48.320I'm totally supportive of that, but it strictly limits journalists in the way they are allowed to report things so that people can't put pieces together and identify them like we just saw with that holdout juror in the Lindsay Clancy case.
00:08:01.280so it's it is really tough to get a beat on this another thing that's interesting um mark i i was
00:08:08.880really excited when i heard you're on the show because i wanted to get your take on this just
00:08:11.800the idea that a criminal defendant sits in what they call the dock they don't get to sit next to
00:08:16.020their lawyer megan so like when people are testifying there's no communication he has to
00:08:21.040sit there and some of the courtroom renderings make him look like a little kid it's i'm really
00:08:26.960glad that we we've refined our our judicial system from the old common law because I really
00:08:34.740think we do it much better in a lot of ways. Yeah, we fled over here to America and decided
00:08:42.360to make some serious changes in the way the English judicial system was working. And it's
00:08:48.500called jigsaw identification. And basically what they're trying to get at is they don't want like
00:08:52.380ABC saying, well, she worked at Channel 4 between the years of 2005 and 2010, and then NBC reporting.
00:08:59.940We know she was a producer at a major channel, and then somebody else reporting. And we know
00:09:05.660that she worked on Dan Rather's show, you know what I mean? Like where the news organizations
00:09:10.460collectively release enough details that ultimately the viewer has her identification.
00:09:15.200But to me that I disagree with you, I've been on a tear about this. I disagree on protecting
00:09:20.180the identities of alleged rape and sexual assault victims, with all due respect to those who
00:09:25.820genuinely are, because it's just some of these claims are false. And I think protecting the
00:09:31.460identity infantilizes women and keeps the stigma around this crime on the woman. The stigma is the0.91
00:09:37.340man's and the man's alone. If he's done this to her, there is no shame in being a rape victim.
00:09:42.320There is no shame in being a rape victim. And I feel like the system is set up to reinforce the
00:09:47.680notion that there is. And the other problem with it is keeping this lifetime anonymity.
00:09:53.620What about all of the men who might be in an accuser's life who say, she did this to me.
00:10:03.580She did this to me. She did this to me too. I broke up with her and then she brought a false
00:10:07.320claim against me. None of those guys, if that's a backstory of any one of these six accusers
00:10:13.020are five and six charges. I'm losing my numbers. None of that backstory would be known because the
00:10:21.280names are unknowable. They're nowhere. The British public doesn't know. The American public doesn't
00:10:25.880know. It's not all over social media. So if one of these women is a serial fabulist when it comes
00:10:30.980to prior accusations, we will not find out because there's such blanket protection of even their
00:10:37.080names. It's very unfair. Go ahead, Eichlerce, your thoughts on any and all. A lot. Okay. First,
00:10:42.360what matt talked about i didn't know that they separated the defendants from the attorneys that
00:10:46.300would be great for me because i'd get a lot of exercise i would literally be walking constantly
00:10:51.740to show the judge how ridiculous you would do it too oh i can't back and forth oh wait she said
00:10:57.020what and i'd get up and it would be distracting for the jurors and they would learn that it's0.93
00:11:01.280probably not a good idea to keep me away from a guy who's facing decades in prison who i need to
00:11:05.860get feedback on but you would look cute in the wig mark oh my goodness i can't imagine ever uh
00:11:11.500I'd be colorful. I'd maybe do purple. All right. Number two, strike against him. Unlike the jurors
00:11:18.680here, they don't have to be unanimous over there. So two can find that this is absolute horseshit,0.98
00:11:24.380completely made up, Snow White, innocent, framed like the Mona Lisa. But as long as 10 say he's0.97
00:11:30.000guilty, he's going away. OK, so that's another problem. And then the third thing that's a problem
00:11:35.300is there is no protection of defendants who refuse to take the witness stand.
00:20:40.140allegedly not telling the investigators at that time
00:20:43.140that she ever said no to Russell Brand,
00:20:45.200which would be a damning fact you know if she like men cannot just glean what's in our heads
00:20:51.860like we need to say no or shove them off of like in some way you need to communicate no in order
00:20:58.400to convince a jury that this was rape because the man has a defense of reasonable belief of consent
00:21:04.780russell brand has that defense available to him it's an element of the law in great britain if
00:21:10.020he had a reasonable belief of consent he can get out of this so something needs to have been done
00:21:14.480to tell him no in some way, shape or form. And so the defense was cross-examining her
00:21:20.740on what she said in her initial statement. And the judge intervened with a save for the witness.
00:21:30.200Here it is in SOT 32 being described again by this podcast.
00:21:34.940Winter said you didn't struggle when he was on top of you. You didn't struggle
00:21:38.680during what you say is an alleged vaginal rape. And complainant one says he was really heavy.0.70
00:21:43.780i felt like i was being crushed like i couldn't breathe winter said you didn't say no complainant
00:21:48.260one said i did say no winter said in your video recorded interview you said you said no in your
00:21:53.460head but you didn't say it out loud and complainant one said i said it i said it winters then moved on0.57
00:21:58.900and said he asked you while this alleged vaginal rape was taking place if you were enjoying it and0.97
00:22:04.500you didn't say no the judge came in and said actually you've asked a question that implies
00:22:08.900that in her video recorded interview she only says or makes reference to saying no in her head but
00:22:14.060that's not true because she does say that she said it out loud and and winter said i'm conducting a
00:22:19.660cross-examination here it's the victim that answers and the judge said shush i'm the judge you have to
00:22:25.440let me speak and it sounds like you're putting a question to her that is not reflective or
00:22:30.420accurately reflective of what she said in the video recorded interview megan let me in on this
00:22:35.080word mark yeah get me in on this one yeah you go okay you're stepping on me mark i got so much to
00:22:41.180say on this okay first and foremost that judge doesn't understand his role okay the only one
00:22:49.100that jurors trust as much as matt murphy is always a trustworthy kind of guy they know he represents
00:22:55.240the people but he wants a conviction the defense lawyers they want to acquit their clients doesn't
00:22:59.840matter what the evidence is. The only one they trust and cherish, the guy who gives them the
00:23:04.620pizza during breaks, the guy who controls their life during this trial is the elevated one wearing
00:23:09.420the black polyester. When he makes his position clear, and boy, did he do so. He is in favor of
00:23:16.040the victim. He didn't say it, but that's exactly what's implied. Objectivity goes out the window.
00:23:22.500Fairness goes out the window. That judge, I think, commits error by doing what he did.
00:23:27.700and i would be absolutely outraged i would move for a mistrial and ask that he recuse himself
00:23:33.200and i think that that's probably the worst moment in this trial for russell yes go ahead well matt
00:23:39.240here i'll give you i'll give you one other event involving the judge just to keep it moving forward
00:23:43.560and you can comment on both of them here is sat 31 back to the bbc describing what happened in court
00:23:49.360he said you said he was wearing briefs budgie smugglers uh so very very tight um underwear
00:23:55.240but in the pictures that we have that are in evidence that you took that you say Russell Brand
00:24:00.420asked you to take he's wearing white trousers he's not in budgie smugglers but you said that he was
00:24:05.760when you took the pictures and complainant Ron responds saying I don't have an exact recollection
00:24:10.620in the order of what he was wearing at what time I thought I took pictures of him in the budgie
00:24:15.000smugglers because I was just repeatedly clicking the camera and it's one of those cameras that you
00:24:19.140have to wind up and I wasn't winding it and then winter questions well when you came out of the
00:24:23.560bathroom and you saw that he'd taken his top off, you could have gone back in. You could have tried
00:24:27.820to leave the hotel room, but you didn't do either of those things. And then complainant one got very
00:24:33.020emotional. She was crying and finding it difficult to finish her answers. But she said, quote, I can
00:24:37.960categorically tell you I did not find that man attractive. I thought he was gay. And she continued
00:24:43.100crying. The judge said, you know, we can pause, we can stop. By the way, she did not take the pause.
00:24:49.280she said, it's not going to get any better. And she kept going. But, you know, I, I don't know
00:24:56.280when somebody is upset. Sometimes they'll say, let's take a pause. I think it's usually the
00:25:00.260cross-examining attorney who would say, let's take a pause, not the judge to step in and stop your
00:25:05.640flow as a man's freedom hangs in the balance, but your thoughts. Okay. First of all, let me just
00:25:11.040preface it. This is the judge, by the way, this is such a crazy place. Yeah. I don't even know
00:25:15.640what to say. Give me a minute here to address a couple of things. Number one, I prosecuted these
00:25:19.840cases, Megan. I prosecuted these in California. I've also represented women who've come forward
00:25:24.100in similar cases pro bono. OK, so this this is the world I know. Everything Mark just said about
00:25:30.940the judge's comments were 100 percent spot on. And I'll go further than that. You are at a critical
00:25:36.640point for the fairness of a criminal defendant in cross-examination. And so the audience understands
00:25:41.580What this woman testified to was she invites Russell Brand back to her hotel room.0.53
00:25:47.900She comes out and he's basically already in her in his budgie smugglers.
00:25:52.840Budgie's a bird. So basically like tighty whities, which paints quite an image.
00:25:57.700Right. She comes out of a bathroom, naive girl, and he's there in his underwear.
00:26:01.160Those photos contradict what she said.
00:26:05.660And what she told police, according to the evidence that we have, is that in my mind,
00:26:11.860I was saying, no, the law back then, they've changed the law in the UK regarding general
00:26:18.820versus specific intent for sex crimes.
00:26:20.760In 2004, they changed their law to make it a general intent crime.
00:26:24.540In other words, what would a reasonable person in Russell Brand's position see as consent?
00:26:29.160Back then, during the time of this incident, it took a specific intent or he had to know that he was that he was proceeding without consent.
00:26:40.140OK, so a little bit in the weeds there, but it is hugely significant.
00:26:43.760So his defense lawyer has this woman up against the ropes with two significant inconsistencies.
00:26:50.640And at that point, the judge weighs in clearly on the side of the victim and that bringing us full circle to the First Amendment.
00:27:00.360That is why in the U.S. we have to have open courtrooms, because the reason why we have public trials in the U.S.
00:27:07.640is to ensure that criminal defendants are not getting railroaded, that you have fairness at every point.
00:27:13.620The judge weighing in, just like Mark says, that the jury bonds like little ducklings to every judge and every criminal trial that that is announcing a position that is completely biased, that is anathema to everything that the American criminal justice system stands for.
00:27:30.580It is an outrageous thing. I think Mark still would be objecting, knowing Mark and I would, too.
00:27:38.500Mark, we're ripping that wig right off that guy's head.
00:27:40.760No, listen, let me tell you another thing. The event that they were at was a thing for the Labour Party in the UK. The Labour Party is is the is basically the UK's Democrats. They're very, very left wing. OK, there she was at a political event. And this is the specter that is kind of haunting this whole trial, which is really disturbing for the audience.
00:28:01.340Russell Brand was kind of like almost a communist leaning kind of guy at the beginning of his of his career.
00:28:07.640And he's evolved over the course of his life. And he is now leaning right.
00:28:11.640And he's he's really conservative. He got sober. He got married. He's got two little daughters.
00:28:17.340He became like I would describe him as a libertarian, but he is a right leaning guy now.
00:28:23.480OK, the documentary that brought all these women forward was called Russell Brand in Plain Sight, and it was produced by Channel 4.
00:28:35.600If you remember, there's a famous interview with Jordan Peterson that a lot of people remember with a woman named Kathy Newman, where she is going after him.
00:28:45.500She is one of the reporters on Channel 4 News.
00:28:48.320So there's this specter that why didn't any of these women come forward back in the day?
00:28:52.960And none of them did not. There were no police reports. There were no rape kits.
00:28:56.760There was no investigation at the time. They all came forward after this documentary came out and it aired on Channel 4, which has been accused over and over again of left wing bias.
00:29:06.820So a lot of people complained about that. There were hundreds of complaints to to the to the station, how they treated Russell Brand unfairly.
00:29:14.680So like everything else in our modern world, Megan, there is a political thing.
00:29:18.440And Viva touched on this, but it is really disturbing.
00:29:21.680And then you come that you got a judge weighing in, essentially telling the jury at a critical
00:29:27.120time, right when this woman is up against the ropes, that she is to be believed.
00:29:33.260And it's it strikes me as fundamentally unfair.
00:34:12.880while yes, ideally rape victims should come forward right away. It doesn't always work that
00:34:19.400way. And there are reasons why people delay for many, many reasons. It doesn't mean they're not
00:34:24.800telling the truth. I don't know whether all six of these women 30 years renders a criminal.
00:34:30.000But please be open to the idea and have Viva as well concede that it's possible that his addiction
00:34:36.080to heroin turned to sexual addiction and that he took from these people what they weren't willing
00:34:42.760to consent to. That is a possibility as well, factually. I understand that. I do. I'm talking
00:34:49.040about the challenges in actually making a criminal case. I agree. And the fairness issues toward the
00:34:55.420defendant. I don't know what happened. I don't know whether these women consented or didn't,
00:35:01.100or what happened in those rooms. So, all right, stand by, because we actually have the testimonials
00:35:05.980thanks to the BBC podcast host, which is a good podcast. I mean, I recommend it. This woman,
00:35:10.880I'd say her name. It is very hard to pronounce. But they've been doing a good job. We have the
00:35:15.360testimonials about what happened in each of these cases, including that most disturbing one
00:35:19.180that you guys are describing. We'll get to that and we'll get to what seemed to me like
00:35:22.900utter nonsense allegations right after this quick break. Don't go away.
00:35:40.880If you or someone you know has gambling concerns, call ConnexOntario 24-7 at 1-866-531-2600, text us at 247-247, or chat with us at www.ConnexOntario.ca.
00:35:55.680Standard message and data rates may apply.
00:35:57.840Staples Business is behind every business, no matter what kind of business you run.
00:36:33.040Okay, so that we give the BBC proper credit,
00:36:35.320the name of the podcast is Fame Under Fire.
00:36:38.800Russell Brand on fire. And the host is Anushka Mutanda Doherty. Okay. So skipping ahead to the
00:36:46.800final complainant who alleges the anal rape incident. This is somebody who was allegedly
00:36:53.420obsessed with Russell Brand, who went backstage with him the first night she was at an event of0.51
00:36:58.860his and knowingly went back there to perform a sex act on him, even though she had a boyfriend,0.99
00:37:04.120She gave him oral sex and then he followed up. She came over. He wound up doing, you know, she thought she was going to have vaginal sex with him and he flipped her over and there was anal sex, which she claims was a rape. Here is our friend Anushka speaking about her allegations in SOT42.1.00
00:37:24.860to now complainant number five said they then went into the bedroom that she was wearing no
00:37:29.480underwear because she just got out of the shower and they engaged in consensual sex vaginal
00:37:34.280penetrative sex but that ultimately complainant number five alleges russell brand penetrated her0.53
00:37:39.800anally she wasn't aware this was going to happen she said when it happened she couldn't speak or
00:37:44.600breathe because of the pain but after a while first quietly and then louder she told him no
00:37:49.440and then later on in her interview she said she was begging him to stop but that in response he
00:37:54.160said quote i want you to feel my cum and it was at that point complainant five alleges that they0.50
00:37:59.640realized he had removed the condom and that he ultimately ejaculated inside her they allege0.95
00:38:05.180that actually russell brand responded saying you need to clean up the mess you have made
00:38:09.400gesturing to the bed where there was both blood and excrement on the duvet cover
00:38:14.580that's a problem obviously that's a problem no it's not good i thought that's the one you're
00:38:21.660There's a little bit of the worst one because the graphic detail that she provides is extraordinary.
00:38:28.100Yes. But unlike the first, the first complainant doesn't have the idolization of Russell Brand, did not willingly give him a blowjob, did not willingly give him vaginal sex.0.99
00:38:36.840And we're only arguing about whether he should have flipped her over. That's this woman's story.0.99
00:38:41.400The first woman says the only thing I did to put myself in potential danger was invite him back to my place.
00:38:47.480I thought we were talking and I thought he was gay. That was her testimony.
00:38:50.220She was very firm when they tried to, like, move her off of that.
00:38:53.960She was like, I did not think I was taking a sexual or safety risk at all.0.99
00:39:02.740And his lawyers had a tough time shaking witness number one who only got the pants down to the ankles.
00:39:08.380She says he got her pants down to the ankles.
00:39:10.820This one is more problematic, including because there was a text message.0.54
00:39:16.820The prosecution told the jury that this complainant in this anal incident did see Russell Brand again at a work event and that he texted her and she responded saying, why are you texting me?0.97
00:39:29.440To which he replied saying, because you are dirty and I wanted to push you further.0.98
00:39:33.960So he's engaging in sort of what he thinks is playful sex talk with her.0.99
00:39:37.400And she responded with, I think you pushed me far enough.0.90
00:39:45.420um so the you know that the the cross-examination the the defense lawyers are basically saying0.59
00:39:54.100you did not say you raped me you did not go to the police and say he raped me you were angry
00:40:00.440about the way he was with you rough and then he walked right out after it happened which
00:40:05.800appears to be a pattern with these women and uh so they're basically saying he may have been a cad
00:40:10.960He may not have been the most gentle lover, but you are not you are not alleging rape even to him after after the fact.
00:40:19.320And here is some of the cross-examination. This is graphic, too. Forgive me, but it's important. Stop 44.
00:40:27.480They clarified with complaint number five. You said you gave him oral sex. This was consensual.0.99
00:40:31.960And that complaint five said, yes, I did. You said that he fingered you and this was consensual.
00:40:35.760Yes, I said that. That's what complaint five said. Isn't it true?
00:40:38.640The defence asked that he gave you oral sex from behind.0.99
00:40:41.820Complainant number five said they did not remember that happening.0.99
00:40:44.460The defence continued saying, isn't it true you had a conversation where you'd said you'd never had anal?0.99
00:40:48.820And he responded saying he'd liked to and wanted to do so, that he liked anal and wanted to do so.1.00
00:40:53.740And what he would really like, really want to do is remove the condom and go inside your anus.0.99
00:40:58.580And they were very firm in saying, no, that conversation never took place.0.99
00:41:03.000The defence asked a similar question to one that they had began with saying,
00:41:06.580I'm putting to you that you were young and impressionable and obsessed and you agreed to do stuff you wouldn't normally agree to.
00:41:13.480And the complainant responded saying, no, I did not consent. No, I did not consent to what happened to me.
00:41:20.640Matt, we appear to be getting a preview of what we might hear if Russell Brand winds up taking the stand.
00:41:26.440Yeah. And remember, the specific intent that's required changed. So you've got in 2003 into 2004, it actually passed in May of 2004. But I think he has to testify. I think that he probably would have anyway.
00:41:42.980But like Mark said, again, it's so bizarre watching this, Megan, because you do you you absolutely as a juror can consider somebody's silence if they don't, which, again, is completely foreign to American lawyers.
00:41:58.380So, yeah, I think we're going to get that.
00:42:00.000And I think that we're going to see something very similar to what he what he talked about with you is he's going to he's going to say that I was wild.
00:42:08.420And but I subjectively believe that that these people were consenting and and and under UK law, you know, that that might be enough for some of these.
00:42:20.320Some of the other counts. He does appear to have a specific memory of this woman because the defense lawyer didn't get those details out of the ether.
00:42:29.220You know, clearly he got them from Russell Brand, who is ready to testify, or at least it appears that there was a lot of talk about the back door prior to him allegedly doing this to her.
00:42:42.080And I mean, I must say, like, the whole thing is so gross.
00:42:44.780And I do wonder what effect that's going to have on the jury hearing these really intimate details about excrement on the sheets.
00:42:52.120She testified he rudely said, like, clean up your mess.
00:42:55.580And then the cross was basically, no, it was a bodyguard or a third party who came into the room afterward and said, clean it up.
00:43:03.920So is somebody treating her rudely other than Russell?
00:43:51.720Like almost like Severus Snape cruising around with these flowing robes and the legal definition of reasonable doubt in America is proof to an abiding conviction.
00:44:05.260The conviction means based on the evidence and your common sense, you believe somebody did something strongly enough that it will stay with you.
00:44:11.640OK, the definition in the UK is, are you sure he did it?
00:56:10.140Sort of pleasant conversation for about a minute.
00:56:12.700And then she said he leaned forward, put out both his hands and grabbed her breasts.
00:56:17.160She said this person who had just touched my breasts lent towards me, just both hands grabbing my breasts.
00:56:21.960Only one minute into the conversation we were having, she said she was reeling from the shock of him grabbing her breasts when he grabbed her arm and began to pull her towards the toilets.0.94
00:56:29.600she couldn't quite remember that he'd taken his penis outside of his clothing0.58
00:56:33.280and that he was grabbing the back of her neck and head and hair0.99
00:56:37.220trying to force her face down to his penis.0.99
00:57:20.980Okay. They pointed out on cross-examination that—well, actually, this is on the prosecution's examination—that Russell Brand then suggested that they swap numbers, and after this happened, she wound up, complaining three, in a car with Russell Brand.
00:58:40.980She said she did not report it to the police, that she felt ashamed and dirty.
00:58:45.900And she also didn't tell Martin Smith the full extent of what she said happened.
00:58:50.660And it wasn't until she saw the documentary that she came forward.
00:58:53.600Here's a bit of the cross-examination in Sat 38.
00:58:56.780The defense continued saying you didn't say anything to him at the bar.
00:58:59.920You didn't ask any friends if they saw him grab your breasts.
00:59:02.920You didn't kick off and cause a scene.0.85
00:59:04.600Quote, you just took his hand when he said, let's bob in there, there being the toilet, for a kiss and a cuddle.
00:59:09.960Why didn't you shout? It's because you were excited and no doubt charmed.
00:59:14.040So offering the idea that complainant number three willingly went with Russell Brand into the bathroom to engage in consensual sexual activity.
00:59:20.980Complainant three said, I met this person for a minute before they sexually assaulted me.
00:59:25.140I was in shock when he grabbed my arm and tried to pull me into the bathroom.
00:59:28.360I was already in shock from him grabbing my breasts.0.93
00:59:30.920Then there was a back and forth between the defense and the complainant about which bathroom it was.
00:59:35.560Was it the men's? Was it disabled bathroom? Was it the women's?
00:59:38.500she couldn't quite remember which bathroom it was pictures were brought up
00:59:41.800we looked at a map that she had annotated and she said well I'm I'm not sure if it was that room
00:59:47.820actually I can't quite recall and the defense offered quote you don't have the faintest idea
00:59:52.000which bathroom it was the defense continued saying so you're saying that after he ejaculated
00:59:56.780in your mouth you went back to the party complainant three said I was in a daze I was numb
01:00:01.920I was shocked I didn't know what was going on I was wandering around the event looking for a
01:00:05.880friendly face, someone that I recognized. I was having an out-of-body experience. Later on in the
01:00:11.060re-examination from the prosecution, complainant number three said it was like watching myself in
01:00:15.080a movie, like I wasn't really there in my body. The defense then went on to questioning complainant
01:00:19.880three about them ending up in the car with Russell Brand traveling to the next venue and they, and
01:00:24.740I'm gonna say that complainant three, this was a consistent thing that came up over and over again.
01:00:28.240They cannot remember the sequence of events that led them to getting in that car, whether they were
01:00:32.440shepherded or whether they just stumbled into the car they cannot remember it's very hazy the
01:00:36.540defense said he invited you into the car and to the next venue and you intentionally went quote0.97
01:00:41.900obviously you would want to go home if you'd just been raped in the mouth you behaved inconsistently
01:00:46.580with what you said happened i mean matt it sounds like the defense is doing exactly what it should0.99
01:00:52.740do because that is tough to believe that she just got violently raped in a bathroom stall
01:00:58.400willingly got into a car with him and went to another location with him like sure great let's
01:01:05.100continue hanging out this just doesn't sound plausible no it's tough right megan it's a it's
01:01:10.340a difficult thing to wrap your head around like she's just been sexually assaulted in a horrific
01:01:14.860way um and i that's really tough to reconcile how do you go from a brutal sexual assault the way she
01:01:23.120described it, to getting in a car. Now, she says in the car he took his penis out again and exposed0.99
01:01:31.420himself, and she said no in the car, and then he accepted. But another thing, just going back to1.00
01:01:37.460the procedural differences, the idea that a dead guy can wind up in testimony where you don't have
01:01:46.760the right to cross-examine that person is really problematic. That's another thing I can't wrap
01:01:52.340my head around. They would never allow that here. No, because you have a fundamental right in
01:01:56.460America to confront and cross-examine your accusers and the witnesses called against you.
01:02:02.080And if somebody dies, you can do here what's called a conditional exam,
01:02:05.980where if the defense is able to get to the hospital bed before the person passes
01:02:09.780with a judge and court reporter, you can ask them all the questions you would have on cross.
01:02:15.040But I don't think that happened here. So it's another thing. The reason why those laws were
01:02:19.800change, just going back to get on my constitutional soapbox for a second, is because the founding
01:02:24.340fathers of the United States saw people get screwed over, over and over again in this kind
01:02:30.160of archaic system of justice that they utilize in the UK. And if I could give a parallel case,
01:02:35.280a lot of people don't know this. There's another very high profile accusation, series of accusations
01:02:40.620of sexual abuse by somebody famous, and that was the Johnny Depp case. And a lot of people don't
01:02:45.020know there was a trial in London where he was suing one of the newspapers there for defamation
01:02:49.620regarding allegations from Amber Heard, which were completely false from my from what I watched in
01:02:55.940the trial. And all of us did that. And he lost that trial in London. And it's it doesn't bode
01:03:01.740well for what's going to happen to Russell Brand. Testimony from dead guys. And even that this guy
01:03:08.420said that she didn't she didn't provide all of those details in his memory was foggy. And she
01:03:13.720later admitted she did not tell him about the um about the forced oral copulation is what we would0.97
01:03:20.400call it here they call it oral rape there um so yeah it's it's another layer on this megan which0.91
01:03:25.920is just kind of bizarre to watch your uncle dale is the undisputed king of hot takes buffalo they're0.96
01:03:32.800a lot because his barber said so don't listen to dale go with the score bet breaking news live
01:03:38.120odds and real-time stats right at your fingertips everything you need for game day is one tap away
01:03:42.880Don't go with hot takes, go with the score bet.
01:11:08.380My entire background, long before I got to homicide, was sexual assault.
01:11:13.260I don't like this case for a variety of reasons. I've reviewed these for filing. I advocate for for victims of sexual assault. I donate my time to victims of sexual assault. I have I have a lot of problems with what I've seen in this. And I'm no Russell Brand fan. I didn't agree with him when he was on the left on a lot of stuff.
01:11:33.560And I disagree with him and a lot of the crazy stuff and conspiracy theories now that he's, like, gone the other way.
01:18:38.440because of really risky behavior that he engaged in,
01:18:43.320which was, I mean, beyond risky, it was actually reckless.
01:18:46.600And it's like, that's the takeaway, right?
01:18:47.880It's like, my God, warn your loved ones
01:18:50.160girls and boys, you know, young men and young women, for the love of God, like keep your moral
01:18:55.820standard high and don't subject yourself to this kind of a situation where someone can potentially
01:19:02.660use your politics against you or a general unwellness on their part, which this is the
01:19:08.460cross-examination and the defense theme, against you? Yeah, well, look, there's an old adage,
01:19:13.920right? It's a little crass, but every rapist is an asshole, but every asshole is not a rapist.1.00
01:19:19.560And I heard that in sexual assault. And part of that job is refusing cases out of fairness.1.00
01:19:26.920And that's the fundamental goal of a prosecutor is always to be fair to compare those two.
01:19:32.080One of the things that's disturbing in the modern day, Megan, is this concept of mob justice, where people get very emotional about cases like this.
01:19:41.440And we start spackling over really critical problems with evidence.
01:19:47.340and mob justice is injustice every single time.
01:19:52.100And that's why we're not supposed to do it.
01:19:54.000And this one, when you're talking about a documentary
01:20:51.160Look, Megan, I've been in that situation before where judges weigh in on one side or another.
01:20:55.940That is an almost – that is a death knell in most cases.
01:20:58.880When judges shush a lawyer and say, I'm the judge, you've got to listen to me, I'm talking right now, that – from a prosecution standpoint,
01:21:07.940you are 90 percent in the end zone at that point because the judge has weighed in very clearly on
01:21:13.920your side and on behalf of a victim and that's as about as close as instructing the jurors as to
01:21:19.620what they should believe um as anything i've ever even heard of before so this one is and what what
01:21:25.540is what is vindicated here you know the guy has moved on with his life and i don't know i believe
01:21:29.920in redemption i believe there's an exception for predatory sex offenders is russell brand a
01:21:35.440predatory sex finner jump out of the bush as rapist type, in which case I would have zero
01:21:39.500sympathy for him? Or is he an a-hole entitled guy who, due to drugs and alcohol, is pushing beyond0.99
01:21:46.860what a reasonable person would? I don't know the answer, but this one, I got some problems with
01:21:53.400this one. It's sort of, yeah, we did, we did pull the soundbite of him on the set on the possibility
01:21:59.900of prison here it is i'm worried about your criminal trial i don't think that you're going
01:22:05.360to get a fair shake in great britain oh no they love to put people in jail oh no i don't want to
01:22:09.920go to jail it's my strong preference to not go to jail i mean i admire the fact that he's able to
01:22:19.580keep his sense of humor because that's honestly what's good what gets you through everything in
01:22:23.460life i can speak to that personally you guys thank you you've done very long duty today and
01:22:28.460really appreciate it. As always, Viva, great to see you. Matt, you too, to be continued.