00:02:20.660Amy was from a well-off family and was very popular and so on.
00:02:24.500This other girl was from the wrong side of the tracks and had been in a foster home and did not come from a family like that,
00:02:32.260who had all of the experiences in Amy's book and basically was suggesting she's the only one who had them,
00:02:43.720that Amy had conveniently seemed to have, quote, remembered what had happened to this woman in her
00:02:51.940book, not something that had actually happened to Amy, or so the New York Times report seemed
00:02:57.240to intimate. They found this other girl and kind of left the reader to draw his or her own
00:03:02.840conclusions. Well, then that other gal from the wrong side of the tracks, who's now all grown up,0.84
00:03:07.680filed a lawsuit against Amy, claiming her story had been appropriated, that she published1.00
00:03:11.840private facts and so on. And Amy, with her billions cross-claimed, that's playing out.
00:03:19.860Then she accused that girl of defamation and on and on they go back and forth. The girl from the
00:03:27.040wrong side of the tracks claims, forgive me, she's going by Jane Doe. Her name is Jolene.
00:03:30.880It's already out there, so we're just going to go with it. Jolene alleges that these two had a
00:03:37.560meeting in 2019 in Palm Springs, California, where Amy flew out and met with her at Amy's request
00:03:44.200and that this is all sort of a setup before Amy published the tell. Amy says that's entirely made
00:03:52.200up. She did not go out to Palm Springs in 2019. She did not meet with Jolene that this is a made
00:03:57.600up lie. One of these two women is a psychopath liar. And the mystery of this case is playing1.00
00:04:05.860out in forum after forum. The New York Magazine just did an in-depth thing trying to rehabilitate
00:04:11.220Amy, obviously. The big news about Jolene's existence was broken by the New York Times.
00:04:18.920Billy Bush has been doing amazing work on this story. Maureen Callahan is the first one to bring
00:04:25.040it to the screen. And Billy has advanced the story more than anyone. And now we have a report
00:04:32.640and semaphore that Amy Griffin actually tried to ruin the life of the New York Times reporter's
00:04:41.160child in retribution for the New York Times piece, that she tried to stop the New York
00:04:47.480Times reporter's daughter from getting into a university. I mean, this has gotten so crazy,
00:04:54.700a charge Amy denies. This has gotten so crazy. We've brought you the story before
00:04:59.820in its initial iteration. And we've talked about it with Maureen on this program. I know Amy
00:05:06.020Griffin a little, full disclosure. We're not friends. I just, you know, we've seen each other
00:05:10.120in some of the same circles and we have mutual friends, but, you know, I'll go where the story
00:05:15.640takes us. So we are doing a deep dive on this in our second hour with the lawyer for Jolene.
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00:06:34.820We begin today with the breaking news out of Florida. The FBI has arrested Thomas Markle
00:06:40.880Sr., father of Meghan Markle. This is unbelievable. I mean, think of it. This couple, on the one
00:06:46.700hand has one father slash father-in-law who is the king of England and one father on the other
00:06:53.840side or father-in-law who is now under arrest for hoarding troves of child pornography and
00:07:00.880potentially abusing children directly. We've told you before about the allegations that Markle Sr.
00:07:06.780had child pornography in the Philippines and in Mexico, where he's been living for the past 10
00:07:12.360plus years. But now the U.S. Department of Justice says he has been keeping what's known as
00:07:19.580child sexual abuse material in two Los Angeles area storage units that he's had for nearly 20
00:07:27.100years. We told you about this yesterday. We told you that his son, Thomas Jr., had made clear that
00:07:35.180his father also has storage facilities in the United States, in and around Los Angeles, that
00:07:41.100they have been on an auto pay for $700 a month for years now. He knows because he sees the
00:07:46.940automated receipts, he said to his email. And he had made that clear, clearly to the FBI and
00:07:54.860the press. And indeed, unlike the facility in Mexico, which the father had apparently
00:08:01.980failed to pay the bill on, which made it discarded, which made it possible for that
00:08:06.480facility to allow the Daily Mail to go in there and search through the materials. And they reported
00:08:11.240that they saw and found hordes of child sexual abuse material, including Thomas Markle with0.69
00:08:17.020underaged naked girls, um, that he had photos of underaged naked girls and that there, and that he0.51
00:08:24.980was in some of, at least one of these photos. Um, this facility was locked up and not abandoned.
00:08:31.760So it needed to be searched, if at all, by warrant, which the FBI promptly obtained.
00:08:37.740They had clearly done it yesterday or maybe by the time we had our discussion or they'd been processing it.
00:08:44.300And today, this morning, he was arrested.
00:08:48.420According to the Department of Justice, the photographs found include sexually explicit photographs of Thomas Markle Sr. with prepubescent girls.
00:08:58.240and they are using the term photographs and girls, plural.
00:09:04.360You can see on your screen now photos from the Daily Mail of Markle being taken into custody by federal agents
00:09:11.260at the 82-year-old's Maravita Senior Living Care Home in Lakeland, Florida this morning.
00:09:18.700He is in a wheelchair. He has got handcuffs on.
00:09:22.180He is charged with one count of possession of child pornography.
00:09:27.560If convicted, he would face a statutory maximum of 20 years in federal prison.
00:09:33.700He is also reportedly there in his facility getting dementia care, which, of course, the authorities will soon be probing whether that is real or feigned, given the trouble that he is in.
00:09:47.620There's no doubt that if, in fact, the feds have what they say they have, we will be getting more charges.
00:09:54.000One count, to me, seems like just a placeholder so that the American FBI could establish dibs on him,
00:10:01.860as opposed to the authorities in the Philippines who had made an announcement yesterday that they were close to making an arrest.
00:10:10.140And obviously, we would work with them.
00:10:12.220We're allies with the Philippines, and we do extradite to the Philippines and vice versa.0.68
00:10:17.380But it seems the FBI has been considering what the story is with this American citizen since the news broke in the UK Sun paper, S-U-N.
00:10:30.540And he's been living in Florida now for, I think, the better part of the last year.
00:10:35.700He had his leg removed in December of 25 in the Philippines due to some problem.
00:10:40.540and as of December, you know, the following year,
00:12:23.340You can obviously always add charges and allegations, which I'm sure they will do.
00:12:27.680The first bullet is two images, they say, depict an adult man whom a witness identified as Thomas Markle Sr. with a nude prepubescent girl.
00:12:40.400The third image depicts a nude prepubescent girl in a room that appears to be part of a motel chain in the Philippines.
00:12:48.980The affidavit also describes additional photographs that appear to show Markle with children in various stages of undress.
00:17:35.300she had committed a far more grievous sin.
00:17:38.040She sat idly by for eight years while he was obviously still participating in this behavior.
00:17:45.400I don't think someone who gets off to child sexual abuse material magically is cured of it at age 74, which is what he would have been when that letter went from his first wife, Rosalind Loveless, to allegedly the Metropolitan Police.
00:18:31.220when she sent him the letter breaking up with him
00:18:33.820in December, 2025, when he was getting the leg removed in the Philippines. So Megan clearly had
00:18:38.660been told by that letter from his first wife, her mom, Doria Raglin was his second, that he not only
00:18:45.940looked at images of the children, but actually physically himself was abusing them. And she
00:18:52.560sat by doing nothing. How do I know that? From her, from her. That's where things stand today.
00:19:02.180it's disgusting, it's stomach turning, and there's really no good outcome here for anyone
00:19:09.900other than future children. Because look, you know, as well as I do, if you, you know, why do
00:19:15.960we have, why do we have pornography? Forget child pornography. Why do we have pornography in this
00:19:20.980country? Because there's a market for it. Hello? Because there's a market for it. Because people1.00
00:19:25.540want to pay to watch that. Same is true for child pornography. If you got rid of the market,
00:19:32.180You would get rid of the acts, of the behavior when it comes to child sexual abuse material.
00:19:40.080And so the point I'm trying to make is looking at these images is clearly not a victimless crime.
00:19:47.020Like, oh, well, it would have been made anywhere or, you know, there are perverts out there who do that.
00:19:50.520No, he was part of the market for it at a bare minimum if these allegations are true and drove the need for more of it to be produced.
00:20:00.960And now we're learning from our own FBI that he allegedly is on camera abusing little girls, prepubescent little girls, which is the definition of a pedophile.
00:20:54.780And we'll see what the Philippines authorities say, too, because, as I said, they reported yesterday that they were very close to issuing an arrest warrant of their own.
00:21:04.780You know, the FBI moves a little faster and clearly did not want this guy.
00:21:10.160They didn't want the Philippines going first.0.99
00:22:23.080Brand was also handed one toilet paper roll and given two pairs of gray prison-issued jogging bottoms plus T-shirts and sweatshirts and underwear.
00:22:33.380He was allowed one three-minute phone call behind bars, they presume as do I, it was to Laura.
00:22:39.140But that will be his only call for a week as all phone numbers have to be approved and assigned a PIN.
00:22:47.140Brand, understood to have been whisked to either Wandsworth or Belmarsh, those are two London
00:22:54.440prisons, was monitored around the clock and blocked from socializing with other inmates.
00:22:58.840His first night meal was, I don't even know what they're trying to say here, was an inedible
00:26:44.680He's going to get sentenced on Monday, probably looking at 5 to 10.
00:26:48.360And is that not enough to keep him away from his children on 22-year-old charges?
00:26:56.200I mean, the anal rape claim is the biggest joke of the charges that were brought against Russell.
00:27:03.080That's the only rape claim he was found guilty on.
00:27:04.960The other three are sexual assaults.0.98
00:27:07.160The one complainant alleged he grabbed her boobs at a bar and then dragged her into a bathroom stall and forced himself into her mouth, that it was an oral rape.0.97
00:27:17.060The jury said, we don't believe the second part, but we believe the bit about the boobs.0.99
00:27:21.300What the hell kind of a verdict is that?0.98
00:27:23.620We believe you were telling us the truth that he grabbed your boobs, but that you were lying about dragging you into the stall and forcing himself on you orally.0.99
00:27:47.760It's really this ridiculous allegation of anal rape that's going to send Russell potentially to jail.0.98
00:27:56.060And this is, I mean, and not for an insignificant amount of time.0.93
00:28:00.420I mean, again, this is just just so you know, this woman, when first contacted by the media, by a reporter about Russell Brand, the one who alleged the anal rape that's now been he's been found guilty on, said, and I quote, I'm not sure my story has much in it.0.99
00:28:15.760I was an idiot, young and stupid, probably as much to blame.0.99
00:28:20.200That's the woman whose story is going to send Russell away to jail that and sniffed the genitals, grabbed the boobs.1.00
00:28:27.820that's not a lie, but forced his penis in my mouth. That is. And another woman who said he1.00
00:28:33.000aggressively kissed her. He aggressively kissed and grabbed my bum. She said, uh, then she told1.00
00:28:40.060him to fuck off and he laughed and that was the end of it. He's going to go to prison for that now.1.00
00:28:43.700Okay. Like, I'm sorry, but this is absurd. The, the, the Lord, that's what they call their judges
00:28:50.640saying that Russell will be facing a significant custodial term. We went through the likely
00:28:56.020calculations on the sentencing guidelines on our show yesterday. It's posted on our YouTube
00:29:01.580right now. You can check it out. Okay, a couple of other things before we switch to
00:29:09.060the Amy Griffin latest. When it comes to the fallout from Tuesday night's election,
00:29:17.620The amount of spinning that's going on by the neocons who cheered on this war from the start, like Mark Levin, is dizzying.
00:29:32.060I mean, it's truly, it's head spinning.
00:29:35.640The new line, I mentioned this with Jesse Kelly yesterday, is it wasn't the war that people were voting against.
00:34:16.420What kind of a person connected to any sort of journalistic outfit would be talking about a journalist's or pundit's obligation to get out the vote, to make sure the Republicans win?1.00
00:38:12.020And all the same crowd when the punditry class came out and said, why the hell are we letting Bibi Netanyahu talk us into launching a war in Iran that President Trump ran against doing, that his base does not want, that's going to cost the Republican Party massively at the midterm elections, all of which was predicted on this show and many others.
00:39:25.560Mark Thiessen's out there calling J.D. Vance disloyal.
00:39:28.960This was an act of disloyalty for J.D. Vance to put out that tweet saying, we all know why we lost on Tuesday night.
00:39:34.940It was the war that the people who were Trump Vance voters in 2024 were asked by the pollsters, what could they have done differently to change your vote?
00:39:44.440What could they do in the future to change your vote?
00:39:47.120They said, end the war in Iran, put America first, fight inflation and focus on the cost of living and change the relationship to Israel.
00:46:17.640The reason that the tech stock platform went down is because there were some 40 ballot measures on the ballots on Tuesday across the states about data centers, which are necessary for the AI revolution we're having that nobody voted in favor of either.
00:46:33.140and at last count virtually all of them had passed to ban the data centers no one wants this
00:46:42.200in their community nobody in fact there's a reason there's a theory that one of the reasons
00:46:47.520why greg abbott lost even though he was a very popular three-term governor down in texas is
00:46:52.020because of this issue because his opponent kept highlighting the problem with the data centers and
00:46:55.720he kept defending them but be that as it may the voters voted against data centers no one wants
00:47:01.480in their town or their community. It's creepy. People worried about getting surveilled. They
00:47:06.420use up all the energy, the dangers to the water supply, all of it. They don't want it. They don't
00:47:12.100want it. And they don't want to facilitate the takeover of AI bots of all American jobs.
00:47:17.020They don't want it. They were never asked what they were told once again by President Trump,
00:47:21.840who failed to sell it, was shut up and fucking love it. Shut up. Whoever wins AI wins. That's it.1.00
00:47:28.500But this is we see the AI oligarchs ticking up toward trillionaire status, trillionaire status.
00:47:38.640OK. Then there's Walt Z, the Red Baron guy, not not a trillionaire.
00:47:44.980Can't pay the mortgage, at least not before the good people of America donated five dollars and ten dollars and one hundred dollars to him.
00:47:50.740And now his GoFundMe was up to almost eight hundred thousand dollars.
00:47:54.120And sweet Walt Z finally said, shut it down. I have enough. You should donate to other people.
00:47:58.500Okay, but that guy has got his finger on the pulse way more than the AI oligarchs over at Anthropic and ChatGPT, OpenAI, who are racing us toward employment extinction without getting our buy-in.
00:48:14.240People are stressed about this and choose not to even think about it.
00:48:17.780It's like, I don't want to know, but while it's on a ballot initiative, hell yes, I'm voting against it.
00:48:21.760I don't want a data center coming to my town.0.93
00:48:24.320That's why the tech stocks went down, because all the people who are invested in these stocks that, oh, shit, I guess there's going to be a slow roll on us.0.97
00:50:40.740I'm going to highlight one other thing.
00:50:42.720Rich Lowry was on this show on election night pointing out that in the elections of 94, when Republicans were returned to power, it was such an overwhelming mandate for them that they actually elected a guy who Rich had lunch with, along with another friend of his who invited him.
00:50:57.660And Rich found out that the guy we had just elected to Congress was a homeless man within the last year.
00:59:47.020You're here with us, but you're actually not here.
00:59:49.320And then she starts to embark on this incredible journey
00:59:52.760that leads to the discovery of a childhood secret.
00:59:57.380That's how deeply the secret was buried,
00:59:59.820that she didn't even remember the secret.
01:00:02.440And as she struggles to find out what's true and not true,
01:00:05.660She discovers how silence and shame fueled her obsessive need to always be perfect.
01:00:11.640I was just floored when I read Amy's story.
01:00:14.580What she discovered about herself, about her past, made me recognize how powerful the desire to forget is and also how powerful the desire to remember is and how your life can change when you reconcile the two.
01:00:30.420okay so amy not only allegedly quote forgot the repeated rapes over a couple year period when she0.82
01:00:41.240was in middle school she also allegedly forgot a rape that happened four years after that when she
01:00:47.800was older when she was like 19 or 20 from some guy named james which billy bush has been reporting
01:00:56.280is also untrue. That's a separate allegation that he also has reason to believe is not true.
01:01:03.000She claims it is, but there's a lot of forgetting. A lot of forgetting. This is strange.
01:01:10.020So here's the story. That book, thanks to those celebrities, became an instant hit. It sold over
01:01:15.300100,000 copies by September of last year, one year ago. And that is also when doubts about Amy's
01:01:23.020story became a national story. Maureen Callahan, on the nerve, went out and started kicking the1.00
01:01:30.340tires on this because if there's one thing Maureen does, you know, she's very funny and she's snarky1.00
01:01:35.300and she's fun, but if there's one thing she takes deadly seriously, it's abuse stories. If you've
01:01:41.960watched any of her coverage, she does not F around on that subject. And she had been seeing all these
01:01:47.480Amazon comments on Amy's book page on, on Amazon. And all these regular women who said they were0.99
01:01:56.580actual survivors were calling bullshit on her book saying, I don't believe this. It doesn't0.91
01:02:01.960have the ring of truth. The stories that she's telling them are hollow. It, she, this lacks
01:02:07.540a certain shame and level of detail and retelling, just the art of retelling it,
01:02:19.320that an actual sexual abuse survivor will have in her story. And that was interesting. I remember
01:02:26.900seeing that. I thought, that is interesting. Thank God I don't have that experience in my
01:02:30.960past. And so that didn't jump out to me, but that's what women were saying. Maureen took it1.00
01:02:35.660on. And then the New York times took it on. And not only did the New York times, um, take it on
01:02:42.340in a way. And by the way, it was a woman named, uh, Katie Rosman and her partner, whose name I
01:02:47.040don't, her reporting partner name I don't have in front of me, but they took it on. And not only did
01:02:51.700they raise questions about these so-called recovered memories, but they went down to
01:02:56.280Amarillo, Texas. And in a shocking moment, if you're following the story, they revealed that
01:03:03.540they found a woman who said she had been abused by a teacher in Amarillo, Texas. She went to
01:03:13.520middle school with Amy Griffin and remembered her at the same time. From the Times piece,
01:03:19.740quote, some of the descriptions in the tell of Ms. Griffin's being assaulted are eerily similar
01:03:25.380to the abuse she, this Jane Doe, Jolene, we now know, herself endured. She said,
01:03:31.600she has since retained a lawyer, unquote. Well, that woman, again, her name is out there. It's
01:03:39.600everywhere. It's, I'm just going to give you the first name because it's not unnecessary to go for
01:03:42.880the full, but her name is Jolene. She filed a lawsuit last March in Los Angeles County Superior
01:03:49.660Court, right? This is already like a bombshell that the New York Times dropped. There is a person
01:03:53.600who had this happen to her and her name is Jane Doe slash Jolene. Tongues were wagging. No one
01:03:59.640could believe is like, wait a minute, did Amy steal this story? Did she steal the story? And
01:04:03.880that's the word she really can't stand. She doesn't want anybody saying she stole it.0.96
01:04:07.720And I'll get to that later. But that became the question. Did she steal the story of this woman
01:04:13.500who actually was from the other side of the tracks? Well, not only did the New York Times
01:04:18.180drop this story, but then Jolene filed a lawsuit against Amy saying she did steal Jolene's story
01:04:26.560and that the abuse actually happened to Jolene, not Amy, that the stories in Amy's book are0.64
01:04:33.980Jolene's, not Amy's. Well, Amy Griffin unleashed the full force of a billionaire against this0.99
01:04:42.940Jolene who has no money and was living in foster care for most of her childhood and did have an0.99
01:04:49.300independent rape story at the hands of a teacher, though it wasn't Mr. Mason. It was another teacher
01:04:54.680at the middle school who promptly left the school. After Jolene's alleged abuse, this teacher left.
01:05:02.040And so there wasn't a litany of girls coming forward about him because he peaced out of there.
01:05:06.040Don't know what happened to him. But Mr. Mason stayed at the school, went on to go into school
01:05:10.820management, and never had another accuser ever come forward ever against him. Not a one. In fact,
01:05:18.480when the New York Times did its story, they interviewed the sheriff, who Amy did go talk
01:05:23.600to an Amarillo about Mr. Mason only giving the real name, but conveniently didn't have that
01:05:28.780meeting until statute of limitations on that claim had just run out. Damn, so close to extracting0.98
01:05:37.040justice for the crimes against you. If only you had known when the statute of limitations ran,1.00
01:05:43.160if only somebody like an Amy Griffin had a lawyer who could have advised her on things like statute0.94
01:05:47.860of limitations before she sat down with a sheriff and told her story. Oh, come on. All right, look,0.60
01:05:52.760Obviously, I have a healthy dose of skepticism. Perhaps I'm making up for the lack of it from, yeah, Jenna Bush, Hager and Oprah and Gwyneth. There is reason to be skeptical. I don't know who's telling the truth. I will reiterate that.
01:06:08.140But Amy Griffin unleashed the full weight of her billionaire bank account on Jolene.1.00
01:06:15.640she jolene sued amy in california los angeles superior court which is where jolene had been0.64
01:06:22.460living and amy counter sued with what's called an anti-slap motion where you basically go in and say
01:06:33.120this is such bullshit these claims against me i want this dismissed right away and if you do
01:06:38.260dismiss them i want my attorney's fees and i should get them this happened in the blake lively0.89
01:06:42.360Justin Baldoni case, remember? Justin sued her for defamation. She responded with an anti-slap
01:06:48.040motion. The court granted her anti-slap motion. And that's what led to Blake Lively saying he
01:06:53.280should pay all of our attorney's fees and they should be, you know, I don't know, eight figures.
01:06:57.340Ultimately, I think it was like 400,000 bucks. That happened there. It was an anti-slap motion
01:07:02.580where you step in and you say, this is such bullshit. You know, these claims that are being0.99
01:07:07.260filed, you got to get rid of them right away. You can only do it in certain types of cases.
01:07:11.180So she filed an anti-slap against Jolene, who had filed, I think, a total of seven claims against Amy. The judge upheld five claims and dismissed two. Amy tried to paint this as a massive win. It wasn't. Jolene's case survived five out of. I mean, trust me, I've filed and been on the receiving end of dozens and scores of legal claims when I was practicing law for 10 years.
01:07:47.840And not only, and now she's saying, we want $400,000 in fees or something like that for our motion.
01:07:54.740And she says, it's not about the money.
01:07:57.340All I really want is for Jolene to admit she's a liar.1.00
01:08:00.460Okay, if Jolene is a liar, she should admit that and put us all out of our damn misery.0.99
01:08:05.080Amy then goes to Nevada, where Jolene had since moved, and filed her own independent cause of action against Jolene for defamation, saying, you are defaming me by saying I stole your story, F off, you stole my story.0.98
01:08:25.880And she is focused, Amy, in this lawsuit against Jolene in federal court in Nevada.
01:08:32.220She is focused on saying, basically the theory of her case is, Jolene allegedly knew nothing about anything in Amarillo until the New York Times reporter went to her and said, have you read the tell?
01:09:12.340Well, my guess is they had not only the tell, they had Amy's book proposal that she had sent out to publishing houses when she was trying to get this book published.
01:09:20.960And in the book proposal, she offers a few more details about a character she calls Claudia in the book.
01:09:30.880And she mentions Claudia because she suspects in the book that Claudia also got abused.
01:09:38.520And part of her search in the book is to get Claudia to confess that she too has been abused, Amy believes, by Mr. Mason.
01:09:46.860And she writes about Claudia was this girl from the wrong side of the tracks who lived in a group foster home who had blunt cut bangs and blonde hair.
01:18:18.640and Jolene says, I did send her sort of an anodyne postcard, said nothing after the fact,
01:18:24.160and Amy never sent me one. But clearly Amy had her address and clearly had her phone number
01:18:29.080because it was Amy who reached out to Jolene to begin with and asked for the meeting.
01:18:32.820And Jolene didn't really much seem to understand why they had a meeting, but they had a meeting,
01:18:36.200she says. Well, here's where the rubber meets the road. Amy says that never happened.
01:18:44.480She was not in Palm Springs in 2018, 19 or 20.
01:18:49.900She has never met with Jolene, you know, as adults.
01:18:54.620But that is a complete fabrication.1.00
01:18:58.300Okay, so now here, one of these women is a psychopath liar.0.99
01:19:03.040I mean, truly, this is where we are.0.52
01:19:04.440Either Jolene has stolen Amy's story claiming it was hers and Amy stole it from her and for some reason made up extraneous, shocking, shockingly risky details like they had an in-person meeting in Palm Springs in 2019 that didn't happen, which would be a huge risk.0.75
01:19:29.880if jolene is making this up walk through it with me she has no idea what amy griffin was doing in
01:19:36.6602019 she has no idea amy griffin could have been traveling the world with her billionaire husband
01:19:41.560she could have been living in india she could okay how does she know what amy was doing she's
01:19:48.560not gonna be able to sustain this that's a huge and may i say unnecessary risk if her only goal1.00
01:19:55.840is to do a money grab and say she stole this story. I was sexually assaulted. Why does she
01:20:00.140need to say they met at a coffee shop in 2019? What's the point of that? It's not necessary and
01:20:07.360it's very risky. On the other hand, is Amy Griffin, this person who is on the board of the Met and all
01:20:16.780these other companies and so integral, according to her, to all these successful businesses and
01:20:23.100literally best friends with Reese Witherspoon and Gwyneth Paltrow and the like, who's living,
01:20:27.760you know, the most jet-setting life a person can live. The husband's extremely successful.
01:20:32.340Obviously, he's no nutcase. Is it possible this woman is such a pathological liar that she is1.00
01:20:39.340telling us she didn't go to Palm Springs when she did? What an extraordinary lie that would be.0.99
01:20:47.620She's saying, we have a private jet. They do have a sick one. Look, it didn't go there.0.76
01:20:53.100I can produce the records. Now, she's resisting discovery. She hasn't actually produced records1.00
01:20:59.140in this case, but she claims the jet didn't take her out there. Now, that doesn't mean she didn't
01:21:04.180take a first-class flight out there. And there is a question about whether Amy possibly attended
01:21:10.760some sort of an art show out around the Palm Springs area around this time and may have had
01:21:18.120some follow-up correspondence with an artist after the fact. That's a question not yet proven.
01:21:24.920But there's no, because let me tell you what happened in this case. Recently in September,
01:21:29.880New York Magazine tried to write a cleanup article for Amy. It was obviously a cleanup article saying
01:21:35.260they could both be true. Maybe both women were sexually assaulted and, you know, maybe there's
01:21:40.860some crossover of memories, et cetera, but like it both happened to both of them. And they cited a
01:21:47.740gym teacher who is like, oh, I believe everyone, you know, that kind of thing, a female. That cannot1.00
01:21:54.220be right. One of them is lying because either that Palm Springs meeting happened or it didn't.
01:22:03.980There's no two ways about it. Amy knows whether she went to Palm Springs in 2019 and Jolene knows
01:22:10.000whether Amy Griffin came to see her in 2019. And this is where you get confused, right?
01:25:05.380The bandana, the boot on the back, I'll rip your teeth out, all of it.
01:25:09.440And that they had a meeting or a couple of meetings, and that it was progressing along
01:25:14.340to where he was clearly going to ask her to sign the rights to her story over to him.
01:25:18.900And a friend of hers who was a lawyer told Jolene, you should get the contract in writing
01:25:24.840before your in-person meeting, and I will review it before you go out there.
01:25:28.280So that Jolene alleges, she said to Dominique Price, I would like to see the contract before
01:25:33.320I come, and that Dominique and some female underling of his with whom she was also dealing
01:25:39.200got defensive and shut down, and she never heard from them again.
01:25:47.240As soon as she brought a lawyer or a legal document into it, they disappeared.
01:25:51.140And she has Dominique Price's phone number, and Jolene in one of her complaints
01:25:56.300included this fact about Dominique Price contacting her.
01:26:01.800She gave the life story. I mean, query how any legitimate Hollywood agent would ever have heard of Joelle's sorry, Jolene's story and like reached out, knew how to find her.
01:26:13.200This is all very sketchy. And Amy's team responded by saying the number that she's listing here
01:26:24.200leads to an actual person named Dominique Price who starred on Treasure Island, who was a reality
01:26:32.540TV star. And this person is saying, I have nothing to do with Jolene, Amy Griffin, or anybody else.
01:26:42.360I don't know why the hell you're dragging me into this.
01:28:34.960She says, I have not been in contact with Jolene, nor has anybody on my behalf.
01:28:40.620But she admits to the use of private detectives.
01:28:44.340Now, the firm that she's believed to have used, Kroll, is going to get a subpoena.
01:28:50.280They are definitely going to get subpoenaed in the litigation.
01:28:52.660And they are going to have to answer whether they or anyone connected with them had a meeting with Jolene, reached out to Jolene in any way, under a pseudonym or not.
01:29:23.880The dueling lawsuits, the weirdness on each side,
01:29:26.880the bold lies by one or the other, who the hell knows.
01:29:31.580Then we had the New York Magazine piece hit,
01:29:33.280which was an attempted rehab of Amy. Maybe they're both telling the truth. And Amy made
01:29:38.740a woman Amy's claiming is the real Claudia. Remember the tell has Amy's alleged stories
01:29:45.060of abuse. And then a character named Claudia who Amy suspects may also be a victim. There's a scene
01:29:51.680in the book where she like goes to Claudia's house and she's going to like, you can't remember
01:29:56.780if it was the book or the proposal, but she's going to like say to Claudia, like it happened
01:30:00.760you too, right? And Claudia, instead of saying hashtag me too, says, no, nothing happened to me.
01:30:05.960But then in the book, Amy gets a postcard later from Claudia with a more suggestive message about
01:30:13.400maybe it did. And Amy says, this nutcase who's suing me, claiming I stole her story, wasn't even,
01:30:21.020not only did I not steal her story, but she's not even Claudia. She's not Claudia. She says,
01:30:26.280there's an actual Claudia. That's not the woman's real name, but there's another person who is
01:30:30.380Claudia. And she made this other person available to the New York Magazine reporter. And the New
01:30:35.220York Magazine reporter said she had a Zoom with her. And I don't know. She doesn't vouch that
01:30:43.620this woman had a story like Jolene's, where she lived on the wrong side of the tracks and was at
01:30:48.640a group foster home and had the blunt cut, you know, blonde bangs or any of that. But she does1.00
01:30:55.220say that she had coffee with Amy at a coffee shop where Amy told her about her sexual assault
01:31:00.240experience. And so a couple of the details matched what did wind up in the book. And Amy says,
01:31:07.020not only did I meet with the real Claudia, but I went with my ghostwriter, who by the way, Amy
01:31:10.860didn't, Amy told everybody she wrote the book. She, she went on the route. She, she let people
01:31:15.640compliment her writing. It wasn't true. She, she did not write the book. She had a ghostwriter
01:31:21.180named Sam Lansky, who wrote it. And this guy says he was at the meeting with Claudia too.
01:31:27.000So that's another wrinkle, and if true, potentially a good fact for Amy, although
01:31:31.880Claudia's details did not match what Amy had said about this character in Amy's book proposal.
01:31:41.040Those details matched Jolene. So we have the New York Magazine piece, The Attempted Rehab. Okay,
01:31:47.880fine. The next thing we know, the next and current chapter is a report in Semaphore,
01:31:57.520which is a Ben Smith publication. He worked at the New York Times for 10 plus years, I think,
01:32:03.000then founded BuzzFeed, et cetera. Ben Smith reports in Semaphore that Katie Rosman,
01:32:10.720the reporter at the Times who broke the story, has had her daughter threatened by Amy Griffin.
01:32:21.420Now, keep in mind the connection. Ben Smith was at the New York Times for 10 years.
01:32:25.580Who do you think gave him that story? Katie Rosman alleges that Amy Griffin went to,
01:32:35.120we believe it was the University of Michigan, not sure about that yet. She went to UVA,
01:32:39.160Her husband, I think, went to University of Michigan and told them that Katie's daughter, 17-year-old minor daughter, was applying to the university and that she should be blackballed, that she should not be offered admission to the university.
01:33:27.240And I will tell you that we have done our own reporting on that piece of the story, and we can confirm that the semaphore reporting is accurate.
01:33:37.700There's actually more to it. There's more to it. We've been able to confirm one school at which Amy tried to stop Katie's daughter from getting in.
01:33:49.200And there could be more. There could be more actions taken by Amy to harm Katie's children.
01:33:58.260This is beyond fucked up. She denies it. We confirm the report. Our reporting is that it's true. She denies it. On top of that, enter Billy Bush, who has been. I mean, like a dog with a bone in this story.1.00
01:34:20.920I had no idea Billy Bush was this good of an investigative reporter, but he has been.
01:34:25.900And Billy Bush has been blowing the doors off of this story.
01:34:29.220I mean, you know, as I said, Maureen covered it.
01:46:18.340We have already in our filing saying that we don't have direct evidence of it,
01:46:23.180but we have earned the right to discovery through the anti-slap process,
01:46:27.540and we are confident that discovery will reveal evidence. And also, this is a question for the
01:46:33.980jury. Like you said, it either happened or it didn't happen. And we think that's a perfect
01:46:40.760issue for the jury to decide. So she's standing by the allegation that there was a meeting. Can
01:46:47.320I ask you about, was there a postcard from an artist named Gary Winograd to Amy Griffin
01:46:57.400in this case you know the the exact detail of the postcard is not on the record yet what we do know
01:47:07.000is that after what we do allege is after the meeting our client sent a postcard the postcard
01:47:14.040is described as a black and white picture of two children playing the exact author of the photograph
01:47:24.360is not on the file yet, but I think I understand what your question is.
01:47:30.120Mm-hmm. I mean, is there reason to believe that Amy was out there and attending
01:47:35.760an exhibit by an artist named Gary Winograd, who is rather well known?
01:47:42.100You know, I think it's in the public record. I can't speak for Amy, right? But if the meeting
01:47:53.160happened, then it has implications that she was in Palm Springs. Uh, if she was there for another
01:47:59.640reason and happened to that stuff that we'll find out in discovery. She has not submitted any sworn
01:48:07.780testimony yet. Amy Griffin, is that true? No, she's submitted a declaration to declarations,
01:48:15.100uh, in the California anti-slap and in the Nevada anti-slap. Okay. So that is sworn.
01:48:22.940Yeah. I mean, that's under penalties. Yeah. So. So in both of those declarations, she says the meeting didn't happen and that she didn't lend our client the dress.
01:48:31.840Our client and her declarations says the reverse. So. So those are dueling. Those are dueling.
01:48:36.680We will get to the bottom of those and we want the truth to come out.
01:48:41.900Here's one of the things that they say they, as you know, but I'm just going to walk through with the with the audience.
01:48:47.860They say that there are four indisputable facts that prove that Amy's telling the truth and Jolene is lying.
01:48:55.620First, the meeting at the beginning of Jolene's story never happened.
01:48:59.320They say Ms. Griffin was not in Palm Springs in 2019, 2018, 2020, and she has never called Jolene.
01:50:07.240In our filings for discovery, we say that Doe 2 is named Robbie Banks.
01:50:13.280So there are people that identify themselves as Dominique Price and another individual that identified herself as Robbie Banks called our client.
01:50:24.960These calls happened around the same time that Amy Griffin admittedly launched an investigation in order to corroborate her memories.
01:50:37.240And when we brought all those facts together in the anti-SLAPP filing, the judge said that
01:50:43.960we had sufficient circumstantial evidence to have a merited claim.
01:50:48.160Now, we are in the infancy of this case.
01:50:50.520We have earned the right to discovery.
01:50:53.060And the big questions here are, there's an investigation.
01:59:43.460For instance, Jolene told The New York Times that she borrowed a floral patterned dress
01:59:49.280from Mrs. Griffin for an eighth grade dance.
01:59:52.200I can't remember if I told the audience that, but Jolene is alleging that this dress that was soiled, yeah, I did tell you, that she said she borrowed it from Amy.
02:00:00.360But the dress the real Claudia borrowed was pink.
02:00:09.320Jolene claimed it was floral patterned because the tell said it was.
02:00:14.180But that detail had been deliberately changed during the editing process to protect Claudia's identity as proven by extensive documentation of the book's editorial process.
02:00:24.680So this is one of their pieces of evidence that Jolene made it up, that she said, oh, I was wearing a floral pattern dress I borrowed from Amy that wound up soiled after I was the one who was allegedly raped.
02:00:37.240And Amy's saying, you don't know what you're talking about. The dress was never actually floral patterned that I loaned the real Claudia. It was pink, which you would know if you were the real Claudia. I just changed it to floral colored or floral patterned in the book to protect the identity of the woman who actually is Claudia. Aha, you're the fraudster.
02:00:59.020in in our nevada filing to that we allege that hey that's a false dichotomy i don't think that
02:01:08.180a dress is either pink or floral but but that aside in the california filings we brought forth
02:01:16.800a lot of evidence regarding the dress jolene attests to to the dress and then her uh fellow
02:01:25.500sister at the children's home recounts a story of the dress so whether the change of one detail
02:01:36.660as they claim uh blows up our entire case i i don't see that as the case either i really really
02:01:45.380don't so we will get to to the bottom of what the exact appearance of that dress was and uh yeah
02:01:54.960go, go ahead. Is there, is there an affidavit? Forgive me, because I don't know all the
02:01:59.580affidavits that have been submitted. You're telling me there was, can you, can you get
02:02:03.280specific on what affidavit you're referring to that references the dress? Sure. Sure. Uh, the,
02:02:09.200the woman's name is Tanya. And I, I don't want to butcher her, her, her last name is like Fran,0.99
02:02:15.900but she was a fellow sister at the children's home. And in her affidavit, she says the children's
02:02:24.120home didn't allow you to borrow dresses. So when I noticed that our client, Jane Doe,
02:02:32.640had this dress, I knew that the dress had not come from the kind of downstairs basement of
02:02:38.120the children's home. Later, that same person helped our client try to remove the stain
02:02:46.880from the dress before our client returned it to Miss Griffin.
02:02:54.220Okay. So she's got an independent witness who says, whatever the color of the dress,
02:03:00.380it was on Jolene, it was soiled, and it had been borrowed from Amy Griffin and then was
02:03:08.480returned to her. Yeah. And she remembers the moment, you know, because it happened right
02:03:13.700after the dance. So. There's another affidavit, which I do feel the need to mention by LaRonda
02:03:21.900Nicole Barnett. And this one's, this one's very interesting because Amy alleges there is no way
02:03:31.480she stole Jolene's story from Jolene for among other reasons, because she didn't know Jolene's
02:03:41.680story, even by Jolene's telling, Amy alleges, until Dominique Price went out there and extracted it
02:03:51.740from Jolene, which was 2022, April of 2022. And Amy says, I had already told the story publicly.
02:04:01.620It was already written in draft form. And I had told it to the Amarillo sheriff prior to that
02:04:08.540date. So my story did not come from Jolene, who didn't tell anybody who you're even alleging is
02:04:15.840affiliated with me, and I deny he's affiliated with me, until April of 2022, right? Do we agree
02:04:21.980that that's Amy's claim? Yeah. During the anti-SLAP proceedings, that was a big point.
02:04:31.040And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jolene's response is multifaceted. The first
02:04:36.300defense, as I understand it, is you learned the story from me when we were 12. Is that correct?
02:04:42.540Correct. Correct. Yeah, because you allege in the complaint that they were part of the same
02:04:47.920Sunday church group and that Jolene told the church group about what had happened to her from
02:04:53.500her abuser with the dress over the head and I'll rip your teeth out and all the details that Amy
02:05:00.160recounts in the tell. Jolene alleges Jolene said them at the church meeting.0.66
02:05:05.900We also alleged, not only that, we also alleged that our client went to the same dance, that they
02:05:13.560were at the same Sadie Hawkins dance, that she borrowed, we alleged that she borrowed the dress
02:05:18.380from Miss Griffin, and we alleged that she returned the dress to Miss Griffin with disdain
02:05:22.620in the same manner that's described in the tell of how Claudia returns the dress to Amy, which is
02:05:30.000another threat in the book. Well, and New York Magazine reports that their Claudia
02:05:37.280says she did borrow a dress from Amy Griffin for what's called cotillion, which is a different
02:05:45.160kind of dance than Sadie Hawkins. There's no allegations, as far as I can tell, of that dress
02:05:50.760being stained or Claudia being sexually abused. But it seems like Amy may have loaned out more
02:05:59.480than one dress to more than one person? Perhaps, you know, like I'm not Amy, right? Like I don't
02:06:07.380know what she did, but, and I'm not, and I want to speak to Claudia. I want to know who Claudia is.
02:06:11.880I want to test all of these assertions. So, you know, what we, what we allege is that
02:06:19.060they knew each other. They were in the same grade in middle school. They went to the same
02:06:25.420Sadie Hawkins' dance, our client was loaned a dress by Amy Griffin. That's what we allege.
02:06:32.220And then we allege after our client returned the dress in a plastic bag that is akin to a scene
02:06:41.160in the tell. Right. And then there is the affidavit of LaRonda, which says that she worked
02:06:52.380at Father's Heart Ranch Group Home in Sky Valley, California, around 2013 through 2016,
02:06:58.600and she worked with Jolene. She recounts the following, quote, while working at this group
02:07:05.240home, which helped children who had been victims of sexual abuse, in or around 2016,
02:07:12.760I personally heard Jolene, she's calling her Jane Doe, tell a story about her being sexually
02:07:19.520assaulted on at least two occasions. I remember that her story involved being sexually assaulted
02:07:24.760in a bathroom by a teacher in the school she went to while she was growing up in Texas.
02:07:29.980Some of the specific details I remember from what she talked about in 2016 was that she was
02:07:36.760assaulted at a school dance, that the teacher involved put his boot on her back, threw her
02:07:42.360against a wall, and stuffed a bandana in her mouth. I remember those details because they
02:07:47.560were so specific and disturbing, and they have stuck with me to this day. She says it is not
02:07:54.300uncommon working at a place like this for a grown-up to tell minors an experience of their
02:08:01.380own that they've had in order to get them talking or make them feel safe, like they're not the only
02:08:05.840ones this has happened to. I mean, that's, I have to say, pretty good, Zach, because this woman's
02:08:13.420affidavit proves that, at a minimum, Jolene was telling a story of her own sexual assault
02:08:19.920with details that would later appear in the tell long before the tell was conceived,
02:08:28.040the MDMA kicked in, before any of that took place.
02:08:32.460And she did so, and it sheds light a little bit on the character of our client as well.
02:08:37.200She did so in an atmosphere in order to help somebody else that was going through the same
02:08:43.060thing. Someone else was having a crisis. You share your truth in order to let them know that
02:08:49.100there's light beyond the tunnel, that this doesn't have to define you. And it's taking
02:08:54.340something tragic and using it as a means to help somebody else. The other thing is that
02:09:01.980Jolene just made a post on Facebook on October 30th saying, I'm fully cognizant of the covert
02:09:10.680covert surveillance activities and have reason to believe that someone has surreptitiously
02:09:15.800deployed an air tag to monitor my whereabouts without my knowledge or consent. On October 21st,
02:09:22.860she posted, I'm asking for prayer more than ever. I'm in the midst of an incredibly difficult battle
02:09:27.640right now, one that weighs heavily on my heart and mind and one I can't share much about publicly.
02:09:32.500What I can say is that it feels like a battle of truth against money and power. Does your client
02:09:38.580believe that Amy Griffin or her people are surveilling her? I can't comment on that because
02:09:44.600it's not on the public record. I'm limited to it. But what I can say is that if our client or any
02:09:52.440client is harassed or followed, and we have sufficient evidence of that, we would file a
02:09:58.160protective order and try to help her. But yeah, I can't. Has that happened? I can't go. Not yet.
02:10:05.720Not not yet, but I can't go into it further. But I think the post kind of speaks for itself.
02:10:12.080Mm hmm. To those who feel skeptical about this whole thing, Zach, who say, you know, on the one side, I know Jolene, she she's worked as as an assistant, a counselor to children who are survivors of sexual abuse.
02:10:26.300Um, but on the other hand, you have this jet setting woman who is a founder and investor
02:10:36.080in some of the biggest, most successful corporations in America.0.96
02:10:39.820Her life is spectacular by any measure, you know, when trying to determine who's got the0.97
02:10:46.540motive to lie, why shouldn't people believe it's Jolene who has no money as opposed to
02:10:53.000Amy, who has everything, and one might argue, no reason to lie.
02:10:58.300This is the bottom line that we give in our anti-slap and in our Nevada case, and it's this.
02:11:05.900Our client never forgot, never took drugs, and has come forward with contemporaneous witnesses,
02:11:18.720On the other hand, Amy admittedly forgot, took drugs, and has no independent corroborating evidence to support that her memories actually happened.
02:11:38.020Her lawyers said to us, Jolene accuses Amy of stealing her story and passing it off as her own.
02:11:47.300that accusation is false. Amy has never met with Jolene, nor did she hire Dominic Price or anyone
02:11:53.700else to extract Jolene's account of abuse. They go on to say Amy has never taken a position on
02:12:00.000whether Jolene was herself abused. That's not what these cases are about. All of this ends as
02:12:04.560soon as Jolene admits Amy did not steal her story. Yeah. Is that a possibility, Zach, that she could
02:12:12.100say Amy didn't steal it and get rid of this case amicably somehow by saying maybe, maybe Amy
02:12:20.700recovered Jolene's memories mistakenly, but earnestly, and there was no theft.
02:12:30.740There's something called the, let me put that aside for a second. There's something called
02:12:35.540the Michael Bolton case. And it talks about this thing called subconscious copying. And it's a
02:12:42.360concept that actually started with learned hand back in 1924. And learned hand, first of all,
02:12:50.240says it doesn't matter. This is in the copyright context. It doesn't matter if your mind plays
02:12:54.680tricks on you, but it's possible to do subconscious copying. Now, is it possible that, and I'm
02:13:03.700speaking generally here, that someone on drugs can misremember something, I think that's obviously
02:13:11.460a possibility. Well, yes, it is. But it's not possible that you flew to Palm Springs and don't
02:13:20.780remember doing that, or conversely, never received a visit from Amy Griffin and are misremembering.
02:13:28.940I could go with somebody's misremembering, but someone's lying about that 2019 meeting, and whoever that person is, is the person making up the lie about the childhood in Amarillo.