00:01:34.160It was back in 2020, and it was just an absolutely emotionally stunning exchange.
00:01:45.200They are the two geniuses behind the documentary What Killed Michael Brown.
00:01:50.020Of course, Shelby Steele is very well known. He's in the Thomas Sowell ranks when it comes to black conservatives who have been ostracized, bullied, attacked, etc., because they don't go along with a certain race essentialism, very popular in academia and amongst the modern left.
00:02:11.480and he has been fearless in writing out about what bullshit that is for decades.0.98
00:02:18.160Eli is his son and Eli has been basically deaf since he was one year old. And I've told you guys0.99
00:02:28.400this story before, and those of you who are with us from the beginning may remember that first
00:02:31.960episode was really tough because we didn't have visual. We only had audio and Eli couldn't read
00:02:39.980lips. He was really, he has cochlear implants. And so he was really struggling to try to hear
00:02:47.660what I was saying and respond. But we had this extraordinary exchange at the end of it where I
00:02:53.260said, you know, I'm so glad that I had you on. We weren't sure whether it was going to work
00:02:58.840given your hearing challenges, but I'm so glad we got through it. And he confessed
00:05:41.560You know, we talked about it yesterday.
00:05:44.620Now, in the wake of all the back and forth that we've seen over the past week or two on this,
00:05:49.560Attorneys for Jillia Lopes, you remember his lawyer Tara was here last week, have filed a petition to have New York State Attorney General Letitia James removed as the special prosecutor in this case before it even gets started.
00:06:05.460At issue is her obvious bias, as made clear in her posts on both X and Facebook on September 28th that read, quote, what this young woman has been forced to endure, forced, I mean, it kind of sounds like she's made up her mind, folks, is horrific and unacceptable.
00:06:28.560I'm holding her in my heart and in my prayers.
00:06:31.640To her and to all survivors, you are not alone.
00:06:44.720It's not to just assume the people being accused are guilty and how she can hang them.
00:06:50.600Just three days after that post, New York Governor Kathy Hochul appointed her special
00:06:55.460prosecutor to criminally investigate these seven defendants. Lopes' lawyers say the social media
00:07:02.540posts show, quote, James is not and cannot remain neutral in investigating this matter.
00:07:08.540We asked Hochul's office for comment, and they referred us to this moment from the governor's
00:07:14.040joint press conference with Letitia James last week, which we played at the time. And kudos to
00:07:20.000The reporter who asked the question, who we have since learned, is New York One's Dan Rivoli.
00:07:25.980But watch this because it's clear Governor Hochul wants us to accept this as Tish James adequately dealing with the problem of her bias in those online posts.
00:07:39.120You tell me whether that's actually what happened.
00:07:42.540Attorney General, on your Facebook page three days ago, you wrote,
00:07:45.660What this young woman has been forced to endure is horrific and unacceptable.
00:07:49.340I'm holding her in my heart and in my prayers.
00:07:51.300To her and to all survivors, you're not alone.
00:17:26.320I mean, look, I worked at Rolling Stone for a long time.
00:17:29.820Our magazine was severely damaged by, you know, a not dissimilar case
00:17:37.160where we sort of bent over backwards to try to embrace the story of an accuser
00:17:45.760now that the circumstances were very different than this one.
00:17:49.320But we made some journalistic mistakes, frankly, in the reporting of that story
00:17:54.600that ended up being very, very costly.
00:17:58.900And it wouldn't have happened if we had treated both parties the same way,
00:18:06.000which is uh what i think they need to do uh at this stage of a case you have to presume that
00:18:12.000anything could be true that they could be guilty they could be innocent anything could be true
00:18:15.440they um also highlighted some of the men of ki-fi coming in during the title nine investigation
00:18:23.700and reiterating that this was that what they had heard these weren't the actual alleged
00:18:30.000perpetrators, just fraternity members, that what they had heard was it was consensual. Whatever
00:18:37.340happened in that room was consensual. And the way this is presented is, of course, there must
00:18:43.420have been coordination to come up with a narrative that it was consensual. And ABC, actually, I think
00:18:50.780we have two soundbites, Deb, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's one where the editorial is
00:18:54.580saying, you know, someone accused them of coordinating. And then the second one is of
00:19:01.060the guys going in there and saying consensual, consensual. Let's play those. Let's watch the
00:19:04.440first one with the editorial by ABC. Weeks after Jane Doe reported her alleged 2024 fraternity
00:19:10.960house assault, videos obtained by ABC News show Chi-Fi members who were in the house that night,
00:19:16.500but not involved in the group sex, telling Cornell University police they heard it was
00:19:21.120all consensual what people were saying was that there was like multiple consenting adults in this
00:19:27.200room there was a consensual act that took place on and that's it's yeah that's that's really what
00:19:38.360the general rumor i was going around was that there was a yeah it was a consensual thing the
00:19:44.800investigators seem curious about the witnesses use of the word consensual dude i was in college
00:19:49.640I'm like, in college, I wouldn't have been like, oh, that was a sick consensual act last night, right?
00:19:56.320Like, I guess, how do they know it was consensual?
00:20:01.220I mean, I can't recall exactly what was said, but yeah, I mean, they said that they had sex with her, I guess.
00:20:14.320He said he remembered seeing Jane Doe in bed, talking to people, but did not recall names.
00:20:19.060She was laying on the bed. I remember she was fully clothed. I can't really remember who was
00:20:24.140in the room. The officer followed up. I just get worried because you know how it looks. You're a
00:20:29.640brother. I know, yeah. And very clearly know what she's doing, right? But can't remember who all was
00:20:37.540in there from your frat. I mean, I didn't know exactly what she was doing, no. I can't recall
00:20:44.460exactly everyone who was in there and like i said before i don't want to make i don't want
00:20:50.060to make assumptions right based on what i don't remember okay one more for you here where uh this
00:20:56.580is abc news um with some more editorial on it an officer then asked one of the fraternity brothers
00:21:02.800about that meeting and those messages so i need you to be honest with me i'm told no maybe the
00:21:09.420other people that I spoke with are not being honest with me and you are was that there was
00:21:14.160a house meeting about it. We didn't have a meeting about it specifically. It was our weekly chapter
00:21:18.620meeting. We got through a bunch of stuff. Any text messages or anything like that about it?
00:21:22.920Not to my knowledge, no. You didn't get any? I don't have any, no. Did you have some? No.
00:21:30.020Cornell police also noted a tip from an anonymous caller saying fraternity leadership
00:21:34.820asked potential witnesses to stay quiet because the reputation of all involved and the frat would
00:21:40.720be ruined. Okay, so here's the pattern if you watch ABC's reporting on this map. They don't
00:21:47.140report right after that that at the same time the Cornell frat bros were allegedly saying keep
00:21:53.640quiet about it or the reputation of the frat will be ruined. Literally at the same time that Jane
00:21:59.540Doe was saying to her own sorority sisters and others, please keep this quiet and don't tell
00:22:06.840anyone. Don't tell anyone. Keep it under wraps. Because she too was embarrassed. In the beginning
00:22:13.260days, everyone was embarrassed. No one was proud of their behavior. But the way this gets spun
00:22:19.280every morning and evening on ABC is only the one side of the story. Obviously, the cops didn't
00:22:26.020believe that these guys didn't coordinate on the word consensual. Obviously, it was only the guys
00:22:31.820who were like, geez, be quiet about this. It would ruin our reputations. How about her saying it?
00:22:37.840And I'm telling you, there's no doubt in my mind, it's my opinion, but there's no doubt in my mind
00:22:41.460that this is all being fed to them. Where else are they getting all of this? By Jane Doe's lawyer.
00:22:46.340How else would they have the tape of Jane Doe confronting the two, and apparently there's a
00:22:51.580third tape out there, Young Men. It's not in Cornell's interest to be leaking all of this to
00:22:57.840ABC. It's possible. But if Cornell were leaking it, I think we'd have somewhat more of a fair
00:23:03.400and balanced presentation by ABC, since they didn't throw all seven guys off campus. In any
00:23:08.740event, the whole thing feels like trial by media, and we all know how that usually ends.
00:23:13.860Yeah. And they're leaving out again, also the important point that there was a reason why this case didn't proceed to a criminal case in the very beginning because of the statements of Jane Doe at the time.
00:23:30.820You know, they couldn't proceed with any kind of theory of a non-consensual encounter because of her own statements.
00:23:42.860So that background has to be in every part of the coverage, but it's not.
00:23:50.240And you're right. It's just they're they're simply repeating a narrative that sounds, frankly, like it's the opening statement of the lawsuit or the complaint from the lawsuit without the counterbalancing narrative that you would naturally throw in if you were doing any kind of genuine reporting.
00:24:12.960And, you know, strangely, an offshoot of all this, the thing that really makes me nervous about this case is not so much the precedent that, you know, these seven.
00:24:24.580Well, it's definitely troubling that these guys might get in trouble or that they, you know, might be convicted of something they didn't really do or be labeled, you know, gang rapists for the rest of their lives.
00:24:40.220But, you know, the New York Times this morning had an opinion column that really blasted the idea of what they call values, neutral law, and, you know, expressing frustration with the sort of consent-only understanding of sexual behavior.
00:25:02.200and that we need, essentially, that we lack the, quote, moral language to talk about cases like this.
00:25:12.200And what I worry about is that there is going to be some kind of effort to expand.
00:25:18.940Basically, the idea behind that editorial and a lot of others that I've seen is that, yes,
00:25:26.940this probably doesn't fit the the technical definition of a crime but crime isn't enough
00:25:33.540we need to go farther we need to do find some way that we can punish uh people in situations where
00:25:39.840they haven't committed a crime um and you know this is already one way by the way the the sort
00:25:47.360of trial by media that's already enough to mean to to destroy someone's life but the fact that
00:25:53.880they're searching around for other ways is also troubling. Yeah. I mean, there's been plenty of
00:26:01.060attention now called to the alleged death threats and, you know, in general threats to Jane Doe
00:26:08.440and her family, which is very wrong, deeply wrong. People need to stop that immediately
00:26:13.680and be prosecuted if the threats rise to that level. Almost nothing about the threats to the
00:26:19.240young men who, unlike Jane Doe, have their pictures and their names out there for all to see.
00:26:25.620I mean, you know, to the point where the one defendant has now fled the country.
00:26:30.020I'm sure it's both those and the Tish James threat.
00:26:33.380But, you know, just the the ruination of these young men's lives before we know exactly their
00:26:44.240And anybody, it could be me, it could be anybody, reporting fairly on the case about what the facts actually are, including the ones that are not good for Jane Doe, becomes the subject of attack as well, right?
00:26:59.240The Believe All Women crowd is vicious.
00:27:03.720And what becomes clear, Matt, is that this isn't about what happened in that Chi-Fi fraternity house for most of these people at all.
00:31:48.680It was, this is what we stand for at this school, and we expect you to live like this in your private life, too.
00:31:55.160And I was saying, I bet we won't get the same from our girls' school, which we hadn't at that point.
00:31:59.980And if we did, it would probably be more like, watch out for mean, terrible boys, because our girls' school has tended to be a little bit more woke than our boys' school, and I didn't give them the benefit of the doubt.
00:32:10.840Well, I'm happy to tell you I was very wrong because our girl school, no sooner had I gotten off the air than they sent out a message that basically I'll read you what it said in part, how it read, that our girls have regular health classes in every grade, that a significant part of the curriculum is devoted to helping them develop the habits of mind that will serve them as young adults, how to identify and develop healthy relationships, how to respect themselves and value their autonomy in a world of profound pressure.
00:32:40.840from peers and the media, how to exercise judgment consistent with their values, even
00:32:45.820when there are forces threatening to compromise that judgment.
00:32:48.860Our objective is not to teach them what to think, but to help them develop the confidence
00:32:52.180and critical thinking that will empower them throughout their lives.
00:32:55.140Beyond health classes, we have extensive regular programming throughout the year for middle
00:34:32.620And as a result, you know, they don't really know what to do. I mean, John Stuart Mill, who is sort of the high priest of how to operate in a free society, he talked quite a lot about something called, you know, listening to the internal sanctions, right?
00:34:49.120So a person in a free society, you know, in order for it to function properly, people have to have a set of internal sanctions.
00:38:01.960girl if she needs help. This is very sick. What Jane Doe was actually saying in that room,0.99
00:38:08.920according to those who were there, was we're all consenting adults here. In medieval times,
00:38:15.300this was normal and was opening the door to let more men in and was actually verbally
00:38:21.420consenting to threesomes. All of that is an insane lie to her four-year-old. But again,
00:38:27.840the burden on him. And I guarantee you, this woman didn't make a companion video saying,
00:38:33.740I, as a woman, want other young women and girls to know you are empowered to steer your own life,0.51
00:38:41.580to say yes and no to conduct, to actually decide to close your legs and not give it up for four
00:38:47.060men in a night. And you will feel better about yourself if you draw those limits.
00:38:50.340Yeah. I mean, look, the contradiction between, you know, claiming and asserting that women have agency in all things and then suddenly denying responsibility, you know, it's very it's glaring, I think, to men.
00:39:07.700But at the same time, I think men need to learn a lesson from this, you know, that that it isn't right that you do have to probably intervene if you if you know something.
00:39:19.160And and I would teach my boys the same thing.
00:39:22.840I have three little kids and, you know, they're not quite old enough to understand this stuff.
00:39:28.880But and that's another thing about that crazy video.
00:39:32.480I think it's a little early to start getting into gang rape with a four-year-old.
00:39:39.200I'm constantly amazed at the total lack of discretion that adults in America have now about these topics with their kids.
00:39:49.640But anyway, yeah, you want to teach good behavior and you want to stress to your kids that, yes, you do have a responsibility in these situations.
00:40:01.660It's unique to all human beings. And I think that's the problem. If you're getting your moral education from TikTok instead of from the Bible or Tolstoy or something like that, you're going to be steered wrong in life.
00:40:17.840Yeah, certainly if you listen to this mother who does not have a working familiarity with0.62
00:40:21.680something we call facts. And here's the real irony of it all, Matt, and I made a reference
00:40:27.400to it a moment ago. Cornell is teaching the students there something about sexuality,
00:40:33.400but it is not to be careful and reverent around it and respectful of yourself and your God-given
00:40:42.600body. It's quite the opposite. Let me start with what Ann Coulter wrote. She went to Cornell and
00:40:48.220she wrote, first of all, she references the comment that Jane Doe allegedly made, which was,
00:40:55.720this was normal in the medieval times. Ann writes, it wasn't, but boy, that sounds sophisticated.
00:41:02.040Doe should get a job writing for the Times. And then she points out actual articles in the New
00:41:06.820York Times, which is, of course, taking Doe's side in this whole thing, including from Jake
00:41:11.580Nevens, a case for hookups with strangers from another writer traveling for a cuddle0.57
00:41:25.740Another, dating experts explain polyamory and open relationships.
00:41:29.660And then you look back at, okay, let's see, some of the recent offerings at Cornell.
00:41:41.580She says, which will give you the tenor of the moral instruction there and exhibit on taboo breaking sex and stereotype breaking women intended to promote the view that pleasurable consensual sex could never be anti-feminist.
00:41:54.340A lecture on throuples and non-monogamy, a course called Decadence to study writers who sought to free the pleasures of sexual desire from their more conventional ethical moorings.
00:42:03.700This paired with a substack written by a Cornell senior named Jared Letterman, who wrote, Cornell has a sex education program, and wrote about how in 2019, their health authority, Cornell Health, authored a guide titled Sexual Pleasure, Finding the Sweet Spot, which opens by declaring that sex can make for a terrific study break.
00:42:24.020Students are encouraged to explore sexual fantasies, experiment with sex toys, consider bondage and fetish gear.
00:42:30.320Exposure to pornography, Cornell assures us, is, quote, totally normal.0.61
00:42:36.060They he says those interested in watching it are directed toward ethical porn and the, quote, feminist porn awards.
00:42:45.580Today, this report is available inside a sexual health resource library that has been handpicked by Cornell Health staff.
00:42:51.620He goes on to write that they publish something called self-exploration, which tells students they are entitled to experience all the pleasure their bodies can provide, instructs them to set aside private time or pursuit of the goal, meticulously describes progressive touching exercises, states that nudity is optimal.
00:43:09.560Then goes on to promote the sexual pleasure guide.
00:46:37.240If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you,
00:46:40.520please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600
00:46:45.720to speak to an advisor free of charge.
00:46:48.380BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario.0.99
00:46:54.580sex with more than one person sex with more than three people at once and spanking by the way that's0.99
00:47:03.680one of the allegations against defendant number two is that he spanked her rear end so hard he0.98
00:47:07.500left a bruise all of this promoted by cornell which now wants us to believe they're shocked
00:47:12.920shocked at what one went on inside of ki-fi yeah it's it's really incredible right i mean
00:47:19.280you could go all the way back to fear of flying, right?
00:47:26.020And, you know, even as kids in the MTV generation,
00:47:30.700I remember we were all getting the message that, you know,
00:47:35.000the right to pursue as many sexual partners as you wanted
00:47:39.500was something that was empowering and freeing.
00:47:46.060And, you know, especially for women, frankly, right?
00:47:49.280Like this was a concrete result of the, you know, the 60s and the liberation victories.
00:47:59.180But the one thing that was consistently mocked and ridiculed was this idea of, you know, sex remaining within marriage or that it's something that's sacred or has any kind of spiritual meaning.
00:48:18.720I mean, I think even in the most mild forms of what you're talking about, like I, I went to a school that had an ethics class that had versions of sex education, but they didn't teach you that sex was something that was more than just a physical act, that it was something that you should consider spiritual or exalted or, you know, poetic.
00:48:48.140They just described it as almost like a kind of plumbing, right?
00:48:52.400And that's very confusing to young people if they don't understand what they're dealing with.
00:48:57.340It's, you know, so it's not surprising at all that we end up with colleges that behave this way, especially because, you know, these Bacchanals have been going on since the 60s and celebrated in movies.
00:49:09.820And nobody's ever said a thing about it until we get an incident like this where suddenly, you know, the behaviors are picked apart.
00:49:19.460So it's a lot of mixed messages and it's very confusing for young people.
00:49:45.020I want to ask you about something that happened in Ithaca yesterday where someone you know, Michael Tracy, he's an online journalist who has, he did report Jane Doe's actual name.
00:49:57.160And then a shitstorm unleashed on him that was so fierce.
00:50:01.280he then took down the reporting, which is unlike this guy because he seems to enjoy being irascible0.93
00:50:06.780and disliked. He went to Ithaca because they're having a town hall meeting. It was with the city
00:50:15.360council that is now, they were voting on whether to temporarily block Cornell and student organizations
00:50:21.780from getting certain new city permits. Like they don't want student groups getting city permits
00:50:27.220that allow assemblies or parades or events.
00:50:30.100They're basically trying to punish everybody saying, you know, Cornell's an out of control
00:52:18.880Michael and I did a podcast together for a little while, and Michael, to me, is the model for what journalists used to be and still should be.0.98
00:52:31.200They should be pains in the ass who are not afraid to offend absolutely everybody, including their own friends.0.96
00:52:39.180And he is pointing out something that's absolutely true in this case.0.99
00:52:42.520You cannot call somebody a perpetrator before they've been judged to be perpetrators.
01:00:38.480That's a reference there to his university president, whose office shall be stormed when he was becoming a black activist before he rethought that entire movement and its messaging and became more heterodox,0.51
01:00:54.860at least according to what you're supposed to be on a college campus.
01:01:39.820If you are in a dispute with someone over some issue or other, and you know that this person that you're arguing with has betrayed his own family in some way, then you have a moral authority that puts you in a position of superiority to this other person.0.66
01:02:06.480That's what white America has endured now since the early 60s0.56
01:02:17.880They've been charged with the crimes of the past
01:02:21.820And it has caused them and their followers an awful lot of mayhem
01:02:32.160And it has done real damage to our democracy.
01:02:39.040Eli, I know you produced this film as you did What Killed Michael Brown.
01:02:44.760Why was it time for this book to be made into documentary form?
01:07:57.340Back in the height of the civil rights movement, we blacks did something that was remarkable.
01:08:15.800Martin Luther King, our great leader in many different ways, but Martin Luther King made
01:08:23.800it clear, what he did is he joined racism with freedom. And his point was that I am free
01:08:40.400quite apart from what my race may be. And I want to be treated in America as a citizen
01:08:52.560of a nation that i'm i can live in freely um well king was uh uh had a much harder fight ahead of
01:09:05.460him than i think he realized but nevertheless he he gave us that that idea when you have black
01:09:13.720power is literally the same thing as white guilt and the white guilt is transnational in a way0.94
01:09:20.480Because what it does is white people, because they have been on the top for three centuries with white supremacy, and Martin Luther King came along and he said, no, you guys are immoral.0.81
01:11:05.680The documentary points out that, of course, after George Floyd, the donations to this class of white liberals or by this class of white liberals racked with their white guilt, which makes them feel like better people, went through the roof.
01:11:23.820And you point this out in the in the film, like the actual numbers that Black Lives Matter and its related groups got.
01:11:31.100Here's a little bit of that in SOT 26.
01:11:34.740And our problems as a nation run much deeper than one horrible event, slavery, lynching.
01:11:41.740We announced Apple's racial equity and justice initiative with a commitment of $100 million.
01:11:48.040This country say, we've got to do more.
01:11:51.140According to the Claremont Institute, Black Lives Matters and its manifold extensions0.99
01:11:57.860engineered one of the most successful grifts in American history.
01:12:03.880to the tune of $82.9 billion, more than the GDP of 46 African countries.0.98
01:12:15.060That's what's insane. Almost $83 billion given to BLM and related groups by people suffering,
01:12:21.960for the most part, from white guilt. And in the documentary, you go through the companies,
01:12:25.460you know, from Morgan Stanley to Coca-Cola on down, hundreds and hundreds of millions
01:12:32.020to either atone for something in America's past
01:12:36.320or, you point out in the documentary, Eli,
01:15:01.380It's been played over and over again everywhere.
01:15:06.580So whites are in a hunt, a struggle to find the moral authority they lost because of slavery.0.54
01:15:22.780We weren't founded as a nation in innocence.
01:15:26.700we innocence is something that we uh we presumed um white whites presumed it didn't really much
01:15:39.900matter as long as we stop the racism now and let blacks have a free reign and as long as we're
01:15:47.600doing that then we we have no problem but no history doesn't work like that and in many ways
01:15:54.020Whites have been thrown up when they did the extremely honorable thing, which is to end slavery and to ultimately, even in the 60s, begin to end racism in its ugliest, most simple form.
01:16:12.520Uh, and so, uh, the, the innocence that is now proclaimed by white Americans, um, is not so much innocence, reality, as, as it is white guilt.0.85
01:16:29.400is better. Let me let me ask you this, Shelby, in the in the film, you raise examples like
01:16:39.640Al Sharpton and Tawana Brawley. And I want to ask you, how does that chapter, you know,
01:16:49.040people who exploit the America's past of racism in an environment where racism is not over,
01:16:58.180but it's considerably waned. I mean, even back then when he raised those BS claims about Tawana
01:17:03.540Brawley, we were doing a lot better on race relations, but he couldn't acknowledge that.
01:17:09.760You know, he wanted to inject something toxic and divisive, even if it was made up. Here's,
01:17:16.700I'm going to play a soundbite and then I'll ask you about why, why, why does Al Sharpton do that?
01:17:22.500to this day, he's doing that. Here is thought 23 from the documentary, White Guilt.
01:17:29.360The Tawana Brawley case. The words and KKK were scrawled on her torso. She said she'd been
01:17:35.400abducted and sexually assaulted for four days by six white men. We are not going to let this girl0.91
01:17:41.840be the scapegoat of a corrupt system. They were bargainers, bluffers, haranguers,0.98
01:17:50.220specialists in moral indignation the people who made those allegations lied have increased
01:17:57.640the atmosphere of tension between the races the backward men who saw not black development0.99
01:18:04.540but white guilt as the single greatest opportunity for power oh so well said so is0.98
01:18:13.300why is that why because it was an opportunity for power for them personally
01:18:19.640Absolutely. But black people could not run far enough and fast enough to get away from all of the lucre that the larger society was visiting on them.0.99
01:18:35.140money, grants, preferential treatment systems of all kinds,0.95
01:18:46.120because whites, again, were pursuing their own moral authority.0.87
01:18:52.660They said, okay, you've got us here, but we'll pay it off.0.58
01:18:56.060We'll build apartment buildings in the lakefront in Chicago.
01:19:02.140We'll do all manner of things and obviously very expensive things, which we still pay for in many ways.0.65
01:19:12.860But we came away from this time period with a real sense that we as blacks had moral authority and whites didn't.
01:19:27.160And therefore, we would play that, we'd play moral authority like a piano.
01:19:36.100And we knew how Jesse Jackson was masterful.
01:19:42.060I often wonder what he'd have been like as a leader of a corporation or of a nation somewhere.
01:19:52.400He was a very brilliant, talented man.
01:19:55.800But instead, he was groveling for the corrupt ideas, driven by the corrupt idea of moral authority.0.97
01:20:07.880And he said, whites are guilty now.0.97
01:25:19.600He did. And he did. And so that's why you see people like Ben Crump to this day still pushy on the power. He did that with Michael Brown in Ferguson. And to this day, if you go to most college shit, they're not going to show my movie, our movie. They're not going to show that. They're not going to tell you the truth. Michael Brown was still executed by a racist cop.
01:25:43.840Just yesterday, I think, Eli, Rashida Tlaib came out with that lie again, saying Michael Brown was murdered, that's what she says, by a racist cop.
01:25:57.920She does not care that it was Barack Obama's Department of Justice helmed by a black man that found, no, Michael Brown was the aggressor based on the eyewitness testimony of five black witnesses.
01:26:14.480But the narrative is too important to people like Rashida Tlaib.
01:26:22.480Yes. Well, I would say, what you need to understand about the left is they don't see the world the way we do. We're Americans, we're stupid Americans. We actually believe in due process, the presumption of innocence is to prove guilty. And we believe in intent. You have to prove the motive.
01:26:43.040they don't they wipe all of that out it's all about the impact so michael brown is a dead black
01:26:52.100boy on the street um nolan is a dead black teen in the water and they lied in the beginning there0.65
01:27:01.320three white teens so they create this optic and so we're always always having to defend ourselves0.88
01:27:07.000but everything is about the impact oh it's like candy oh is there a black person okay0.82
01:27:13.200must be racism and racism is the only explanation allowed and so they used to think of how can they0.54
01:27:20.340be blind well that's the moral compass the moral compass is all about the impact
01:27:25.020it also what you can see it i think very clearly in what we now live by our institutions now live
01:27:36.780by in america the profound spread of wokeism of what you say something is woke somebody this
01:27:45.380and we're taking over american institute institutions educational institutions corporate
01:27:51.920world the uh i mean it is a it's a preoccupation of american culture now is this silly um fruitless0.82
01:28:02.700It's wokeism. I'm woke, and you're not. But whites will say, that's white guilt. We have to defend ourselves. We have to fight back.0.68
01:28:16.320And so they, you know, wherever you go in American life today, you will be touched by this need to be woke, to follow a pattern of life that makes you innocent and gives others moral authority.
01:28:43.500Mm hmm. Well, you in the in the film, for me, it was it was like a remember your life because you go through some of what happened after George Floyd to regular Americans.
01:29:01.420You feature Paul Rossi, a math teacher at Grace Church School, high school in New York City.
01:29:09.440He basically just said, I'm just not going to stand by and watch these students be indoctrinated for one minute longer.
01:29:21.000He's a dad at a school called Brearley on the Upper East Side of Manhattan who said, I'm not allowing this to be done to my 12-year-old daughter for one day longer.
01:29:30.780and wrote a letter to all 650 families in the school.
01:30:00.420Jodi Shaw, who just wanted to do her job and did not want to have to talk about her white guilt or her racism, her latent racism, et cetera, was ultimately pushed out of Smith.
01:30:15.680And the last I checked in with her, which was about a year and a half ago, still had not found another job.
01:32:53.540The left is going to rise that to the end.0.99
01:32:56.860And that's why white guilt is evil.0.94
01:32:59.740And Jody Sharp, Andrew Goodman, Paul Rochey said, no, we will not allow that to happen.0.66
01:33:06.600We will hold on to the true Judeo-Christian, American, Western value of character of the individual and powers for them.
01:33:17.220And we need to stand up and more of us need to stand up and join them.
01:33:21.640They are alone fighting the battles alone, and we cannot allow that to happen.
01:33:25.960Yes. Shelby, one of the points made in the film is that it was always going to happen if we made race essential, that eventually some whites would say, okay, we accept. Great.
01:33:46.540We accept that skin color is the most important thing. And now white people will form their own affinity groups and lean into skin color and, you know, create a hierarchy of their own and that the backlash would happen.0.69
01:34:03.300And you feature a clip from Nick Fuentes in the in the film. But this was it was predictable. You had predicted it. Glenn Lowry had predicted it, that this is a very dangerous thing to to reject Martin Luther King and to instead lean into how important our skin color is and our race is, Shelby.
01:34:28.120Yes, yeah. As my wife often says, race is poison. It's not poison sometimes. It's poison all the time. In every situation, it appears.0.92
01:38:23.240So not only did your dad receive a lot of pushback and criticism and bullying because
01:38:33.260he has these views on race, but your films have received some pushback along the same lines.
01:38:41.480First, last time you were here, we talked about how Amazon had kicked you off of its platform
01:38:47.540with what killed Michael Brown and only when there was a big to-do about it did they then
01:38:56.080put it back on there. And now with this film, we're seeing some come out and say it should not
01:39:04.160be screened in the locations that you've found to screen it because there's something racist or
01:39:11.060wrong with it. We have a soundbite of a woman who's been making this point. Hold on a second.
01:39:18.080I don't have the number in front of me, but we'll play it. My team's got it. This is a woman very
01:39:23.580angry about white guilt being shown at the local high school. I think the filmmaker is black and0.97
01:39:29.660indigenous and deaf and conservative. And they decry identity politics, but at the same time,
01:39:38.260Like they, they, you know, claim, claim that they've got some kind of special thing to talk about because of their identity.
01:39:45.800His basic point is a continuation of the white replacement theory, the great replacement theory.1.00
01:39:50.580It's ugly as shit. It is ugly. It's dangerous. It's gross.1.00
01:39:54.860Oh, I feel really bad for the workers of color who have to clean up that that vile auditorium after those vile people are sitting there nodding their heads and saying,
01:40:08.140oh yes, meritocracy is the only way, oh yes, merit is how people succeed,
01:40:13.660oh no, there's no such thing as privilege, and oh no, there's no such thing as structural or institutional racism.
01:40:19.400Remember what Kendi said, you don't have to look in someone's heart or brain to find racism.
01:40:24.040Don't try and look, be a mind reader, you know?
01:40:27.200What you do is you look at the impacts.1.00
01:40:29.540At November 6th, they're bringing this stupid movie that's full of Islamophobia1.00
01:40:35.480and the idea that Western civilization is under attack.1.00
01:40:42.560You know what that that's that's Islamophobia.
01:40:45.860That's literally anti-Islam is what that's saying.
01:42:21.360So if you're in Chicago, come see the film.
01:42:24.420But the reason why was there was two high school students.
01:42:27.620They were inspired by Charlie Kirk, and they said, we just finished 11th grade in American history, and we did not learn one positive thing about American history.
01:42:44.700So we want to bring this film to show at the counterpoint, to show that history is complex.
01:42:51.380that. You can still talk about the horrors of the history and still argue for the American
01:42:58.180principles because, remember, the American principles are just principles. The people
01:43:03.440in the past, not all of them, but most of them bailed to live up to the principle. It does not
01:43:08.980mean the principles are tainted. They're just there waiting for us to live up to them. And I
01:43:14.200think that's why these two girls invited us to campus. And so we're very much looking forward
01:44:30.580And that's what we're all human beings.
01:44:33.040And that's what we're all sort of dealing with aspects of that.0.79
01:44:39.320And I think, again, as I say, I grew up in a segregated world, went to segregated schools, went through the whole violence phase, went through black power.0.54
01:44:54.940I was blacker than thou, so forth.0.70
01:44:59.700But somehow or other, I think at the end of the day, one of the people said very clearly, he said people are, white people need to find another way to be moral.
01:45:25.780you know paul rossi said that i thought it was absolutely profound
01:45:34.100that's that actually is profound yeah because this way is going to set us back
01:45:39.920and has been setting us back there's no way to go thank you both thank you for your honesty
01:45:45.740and for your courage both of you it's wonderful to see you again the film is called white guilt
01:45:52.060You can find it at whiteguiltfilm.com.
01:45:56.720And we are very, very grateful that it was made and that we have Shelby and Eli.
01:46:03.120And actually, tomorrow's going to be an interesting show, too, because we've got a very famous
01:46:08.620ace agent in Hollywood, Ari Emanuel, for the show.
01:46:14.700And boy, is that going to be a fascinating one.
01:46:17.060Among other things, I will tell you the backstory between Ari Emanuel and yours truly, and we will get all the tea about Markle and all the other Hollywood celebrities that he's represented.