The Megyn Kelly Show - July 25, 2026


The JonBenét Conspiracies： The Ghost in the Evidence — Ep. 5 ｜ MK Confidential


Episode Stats


Length

39 minutes

Words per minute

146.18

Word count

5,794

Sentence count

393


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
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00:01:00.200 It is October 13th, 1999, a lovely fall Wednesday in Boulder, Colorado.
00:01:07.060 13 months of testimony in the grand jury proceeding looking into the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.
00:01:12.440 More than 30,000 pieces of evidence, dozens of witnesses, all of which culminates in one man walking up to a bank of microphones.
00:01:21.600 District Attorney Alex Hunter steps up onto the outdoor platform.
00:01:25.660 reporters are huddled, and the cameras are already rolling.
00:01:29.940 Alex Hunter has a single page of paper in hand.
00:01:33.620 The grand jurors have done their work extraordinarily well,
00:01:38.900 bringing to bear all of their legal powers,
00:01:42.740 life experiences, and shrewdness.
00:01:46.700 Yet I must report to you
00:01:48.960 that I and my prosecution task force
00:01:53.080 believe we do not have sufficient evidence
00:01:56.500 to warrant the filing of charges against anyone
00:02:00.580 who has been investigated at this time.
00:02:05.920 Thank you very much.
00:02:09.020 And that's it.
00:02:11.060 No charges, no indictment, no arrest.
00:02:14.800 The reporters filed their stories that night with a single headline,
00:02:17.940 The Grand Jury Found Nothing.
00:02:20.300 except the grand jury did not find nothing. What no one in that room knows is that those grand
00:02:28.240 jurors voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey. They signed true bills, the formal charges a grand jury
00:02:35.780 returns when it believes there is enough evidence to proceed, not for murder, but for child abuse
00:02:42.060 resulting in death and for accessory to first degree murder for helping to hide whoever killed
00:02:49.560 JonBenet. Alex Hunter declined to sign and file those true bills. How it works is a grand jury
00:02:57.080 indicts on probable cause, the lowest bar in the law. A prosecutor then has to decide whether this
00:03:02.620 case can be proved at trial beyond a reasonable doubt, the highest bar there is. Hunter decided
00:03:08.360 he could not clear that distance, so he sealed the true bills away, walked to the microphone,
00:03:14.740 and told the world he had nothing the district attorney will keep that secret for 14 years
00:03:22.260 the case will outlast alex hunter it will outlast the detectives who fought over it
00:03:28.260 it will even outlast one of the two parents living under its shadow but this case was never really
00:03:34.980 closed it was only sealed i'm megan kelly and this is mk confidential with our final episode
00:03:42.500 in the investigation into the death of JonBenet Ramsey.
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00:04:55.100 For the Ramseys, Alex Hunter's decision not to press charges does not bring freedom.
00:05:01.160 It's a strange kind of life sentence.
00:05:03.460 They're never arrested, never tried, never convicted.
00:05:06.480 they live as prime suspects.
00:05:10.340 They walk through airports, grocery stores, church parking lots,
00:05:13.520 carrying an accusation no jury will ever test and no court can lift.
00:05:19.060 The accusation cost them more than their piece.
00:05:22.460 John Ramsey once ran a billion-dollar company.
00:05:25.600 But as John himself told Barbara Walters,
00:05:28.400 this case has ruined the family financially.
00:05:31.360 Before John Benet's death,
00:05:33.600 You were reportedly worth millions of dollars, but that money seems to have gone.
00:05:40.440 I was told by a very experienced FBI person that most victims of violent crime end up broke.
00:05:48.700 Very expensive to deal with, the justice system.
00:05:52.180 You make bad decisions.
00:05:53.740 You sell your home, you move, you quit your job, you change job.
00:05:58.580 In defending themselves, the Ramseys enlist a small army of lawyers, investigators, publicists, handwriting experts, and a former FBI profiler.
00:06:09.180 A fortune, once estimated north of $7 million, shrinks toward one.
00:06:14.640 They sell the house on 15th Street, the house where JonBenet was murdered, and never spend another night in it after the Christmas of 1996.
00:06:22.880 They're not spending this money to win a case.
00:06:25.560 They are spending it to prove a negative, that they did not murder their own child.
00:06:30.260 While the family fights the accusation in public,
00:06:33.300 Detective Lou Smith works the case in private, chasing his intruder theory.
00:06:37.720 The lone man, he is certain, is out there somewhere.
00:06:41.500 And Lou is not the only one chasing the lone wolves.
00:06:44.520 Every few years, new names surface, the possible break everyone's been waiting for.
00:06:49.680 In March of 1997, Boulder police get a call from the state of North Carolina about a drifter named John Brewer Eustace.
00:07:00.000 He's charged with the rape and kidnap of a two-year-old girl in Charlotte.
00:07:04.400 He pried open a basement apartment's window screen, snatched the child from a bedroom, and took her out the window.
00:07:11.600 Eustace is also the suspect in the murders of three other young girls across the country.
00:07:15.760 When police go into Eustace's house, there's a shrine to JonBenet.
00:07:21.780 So Boulder detectives travel halfway across the country to Charlotte and review the evidence themselves.
00:07:28.200 Could Eustace have been in Colorado in December?
00:07:31.680 Unfortunately, Eustace has a rock-solid alibi for that night.
00:07:36.100 He worked in a factory, and he had clocked in, covering the time period in which JonBenet had died.
00:07:42.000 There is Gary Oliva, a convicted pedophile who, the morning after JonBenet's murder, calls an old high school friend sobbing into the phone, saying, I just heard a little girl.
00:07:54.000 He's written a series of letters, including ones where he has admitted taking the life of JonBenet Ramsey.
00:08:01.860 He's in custody right now, but he sent these letters.
00:08:04.760 And the question is, is this for real?
00:08:06.920 In December of 2000, police arrest Gary on drug charges, and he's found carrying a photograph of JonBenet, a stun gun, and a poem he has written to her.
00:08:19.740 Living on the streets, Gary often visited a local church, which fed homeless people, and is located less than 10 houses away from the Ramsey home.
00:08:28.740 Police run his DNA against the unknown male fluids on JonBenet's body and on her clothes, and no match.
00:08:37.560 There is Randy Simons, the photographer who took JonBenet's pageant portraits.
00:08:42.740 Shortly after JonBenet's death, multiple beauty pageant mothers report to police
00:08:46.640 that Randy called them up hysterical, saying,
00:08:49.560 I did not kill JonBenet. I did not kill JonBenet.
00:08:52.900 No one was saying he did.
00:08:54.900 A year later, Randy was walking down the street naked, and the police were called.
00:09:00.280 During his arrest, he blurts out to police, unprompted,
00:09:02.820 I did not kill JonBenet.
00:09:04.520 A red flag, again, but no match on the DNA.
00:09:10.360 There is Michael Helgoth, a Boulder area man who works near the Ramsey home and has a history of violence and sexual abuse.
00:09:19.080 Just weeks after JonBenet's killing, Helgoth turns up dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, right as word spreads that the DA is closing in on a suspect.
00:09:28.980 Among his possessions, a stun gun and a pair of high-tech boots, the same brand as a print
00:09:36.660 left on the concrete near where JonBenet was found, but his DNA, too, does not match.
00:09:44.780 Behind those four names is a parade of thousands more.
00:09:49.400 Boulder PD follow up on more than 21,000 tips, letters, emails, traveling across 19 states
00:09:55.980 talking to more than 1,000 people possibly connected to this crime. And then in the summer
00:10:01.400 of 2006 comes the biggest thunderbolt of them all. It does not come from Boulder or the old
00:10:09.020 list of suspects. It comes from the other side of the world, 8,500 miles away, Thailand. It comes
00:10:17.120 to Boulder through an inbox. Starting in 2002, a stranger calling himself Daxus begins emailing
00:10:25.340 University of Colorado professor Michael Tracy. Tracy has spent years making documentaries about
00:10:31.480 JonBenet's murder, and now this stranger, Daxus, wants to talk. Daxus begins to inundate the
00:10:38.620 Colorado professor with emails, hundreds of them. At first, the emails read like the outpourings of
00:10:44.400 an obsessive JonBenet fan, but over the months that follow, they curdle into something far more
00:10:50.040 revolting. Slowly Daxas starts to say that he killed JonBenet. In one email he writes,
00:10:57.760 are you asking me why I killed JonBenet? I don't see it that way. Her and I were engaging in a
00:11:04.100 romantic and very sexual interaction. It went bad and it was my fault. Daxas gives specifics
00:11:10.860 on the Ramsey staircase, describes the basement, the blanket, and the exact room where JonBenet
00:11:16.280 was killed. He messages about a check stub for 118,000 he saw on John Ramsey's desk.
00:11:24.200 Daxus claims to be under federal investigation for, quote, child murder and child molestation
00:11:29.960 in four states. Michael Tracy is skeptical. By this point, so much information has been
00:11:37.000 casually released by the police, is out in news specials and magazines, or just leaked onto the
00:11:43.520 internet, and people confess to notorious crimes all the time for attention. So the Colorado
00:11:49.100 professor tests Daxus. I said, how come I don't know you're just pulling this from the internet
00:11:54.680 and feeding me what is out there already? And he said, ask John Ramsey what Jean Monnet's nickname
00:12:03.460 was for Nedra, her grandmother, and it will be this. So I emailed John. What was the nickname?
00:12:10.820 it comes back Neddy he was right it's correct because Jonham searched there
00:12:17.780 was nowhere that that nickname was known in the public domain Michael discusses
00:12:22.040 Daxus with Boulder detective Lou Smith as well I would share some of the emails
00:12:27.020 with Lou Smith and I said look you know I've got this from this guy I've no
00:12:31.100 idea where this guy is where he is he could be next door I have no idea and I
00:12:35.360 I would say to Luke, just tell me it's a nutcase, and we can end it.
00:12:39.720 I lose it.
00:12:41.040 No can do it, Michael.
00:12:42.300 Got to keep at it.
00:12:43.520 The emails with Daxus go on for four years.
00:12:47.580 He's a ghost.
00:12:48.600 His email's untraceable.
00:12:50.780 During all of this, the woman at the center of this case is running out of time.
00:12:55.660 Patsy Ramsey has been fighting ovarian cancer since 1993.
00:12:59.560 It went into remission in 1995, then came back in 2002.
00:13:05.360 And this time, the cancer is resistant to treatment and slowly overwhelms Patsy.
00:13:11.340 In 2006, it reaches her brain.
00:13:14.280 The matter is hopeless.
00:13:16.540 So John makes a tough decision.
00:13:18.740 At the doctor's urging, he stops Patsy's treatment, but cannot bring himself to tell her.
00:13:25.300 The cancer had migrated to her brain, so she was not her normal self.
00:13:30.480 So she didn't know that we'd given up.
00:13:35.360 She would ask me, when's my next treatment?
00:13:37.740 And I knew in my heart there was no next treatment.
00:13:41.680 That was hard.
00:13:44.040 This is exactly when Daxus begins asking to speak to Patsy.
00:13:48.980 He starts asking Michael Tracy to connect him with Patsy
00:13:52.520 so he can apologize for killing her daughter.
00:13:56.380 The Colorado professor stalls and stalls,
00:13:59.380 and then the ding of another incoming Daxus email
00:14:02.100 turns this into something else entirely.
00:14:06.360 Tracy reads Daxas' message.
00:14:09.060 I'll be in the house before you give me that contact information, won't I?
00:14:14.780 Tracy takes that as a threat.
00:14:17.200 He takes everything he has to the new Boulder District Attorney, Mary Lacey,
00:14:20.920 and the investigation goes wide.
00:14:23.120 Her office, Homeland Security, ICE, every set of eyes they have.
00:14:27.580 Then Daxas raises the stakes even further.
00:14:30.340 He asks Tracy, do you want to hear my voice?
00:14:34.860 Tracy says, sure.
00:14:36.900 It's great to finally talk to you.
00:14:39.580 I must admit, I was a bit surprised when you sent the phone number.
00:14:44.000 You know?
00:14:44.460 Yeah.
00:14:45.180 Why did you do that, by the way?
00:14:46.440 What would you have...
00:14:47.060 I don't know.
00:14:47.800 I've lost my senses.
00:14:50.580 11 hours.
00:14:52.300 That's how much tape Michael Tracy records of Daxus over the calls that follow.
00:14:57.100 And Michael's not the only one listening.
00:14:59.440 By now, various intelligence agencies are on the line, too.
00:15:03.220 On these tapes, Staxes finally tells the story of what he says he did to JonBenet.
00:15:09.080 Sort of.
00:15:10.340 He dances around the story, but there is one word he will not say.
00:15:15.680 At what point did you decide you had to tell me that you killed her?
00:15:20.140 I never have said that I have.
00:15:22.220 But it's never implied, isn't it?
00:15:24.360 I know, and I can't say that.
00:15:25.960 I just can't say that word.
00:15:27.680 Kill.
00:15:27.960 He won't say kill, because in his mind, this is not a murder.
00:15:33.940 What Daxus describes in a soft, almost tender voice is a love story.
00:15:41.400 He recasts the killing of a six-year-old little girl as some private, intimate ritual, an erotic game,
00:15:47.760 with what he insists on calling a special necklace, a game of pressure and release,
00:15:54.100 of taking JonBenet to the edge of consciousness and back,
00:15:58.180 he savors the telling of it.
00:16:00.600 I just kind of knelt down in forever,
00:16:02.960 and I said, JonBenet, I want to make another necklace for you.
00:16:07.340 And it had some interesting knots in it.
00:16:14.000 So I slowly applied the crusher on her neck
00:16:16.840 with that second necklace.
00:16:19.940 And I just said, yes, sweetheart, go into the sweet dream.
00:16:24.100 At that point, her little body started to invulch and twitch a little bit.
00:16:31.020 And then, in his telling, the game goes too far.
00:16:34.860 I was just in the droves of ecstasy with her.
00:16:39.900 And then all of a sudden, my gaze just was suddenly broken.
00:16:44.200 And I was just like, oh my God.
00:16:47.440 JonBenet, are you okay?
00:16:49.200 and I knew she wasn't okay
00:16:55.060 because I knew that she wasn't breathing
00:16:57.200 and I just was terrified.
00:17:04.100 I said, oh God, I'm going to have to finish this.
00:17:07.200 I know what I'm going to have to do
00:17:08.000 because I can't take the chance that she could still be alive.
00:17:11.860 What he describes next is a man making sure,
00:17:15.420 cold, deliberate steps to guarantee a little girl could not still be alive.
00:17:21.500 He tells it like a man who is still in love with the memory of it.
00:17:24.980 I don't know if I gathered everything up.
00:17:26.720 I don't know if I watched something behind.
00:17:29.080 But I had to go back to that window.
00:17:32.340 That's where I came in.
00:17:33.660 That's where I have to go out.
00:17:36.740 I whiffed the grate.
00:17:38.180 I got out of the grate.
00:17:39.960 And I was just like, oh, God.
00:17:41.020 But I left my little girl in that horrible state.
00:17:44.980 She's in that little piney room.
00:17:46.740 And worse than that, she's dead.
00:17:49.700 And God, what have I done?
00:17:52.280 So Boulder has a man confessing in detail
00:17:55.020 to the murder that has haunted this town for a decade.
00:17:58.740 There is just one problem.
00:18:00.980 Nobody has any idea who he is
00:18:03.540 or even what continent he's on,
00:18:05.640 nor whether one word of this is true.
00:18:08.820 And Daxus knows it.
00:18:11.020 I'm Interpol's biggest nightmare, because I know I have to evade it.
00:18:17.480 The law enforcement will run into the biggest brick wall when they try to trace this phone number.
00:18:22.580 It leads to no body.
00:18:25.660 I am not a fool.
00:18:28.020 So how do you catch a man who is nowhere?
00:18:31.140 Well, the DA's office thinks they have found one weakness, his obsession.
00:18:36.380 In all those emails, all those calls, Daxus is desperate to talk to Patsy.
00:18:43.300 So the investigators make a cold calculation.
00:18:47.040 Let's milk that.
00:18:48.680 John and Patsy agree to a call with Daxus.
00:18:52.000 Police set up a phone at Patsy's bedside.
00:18:54.880 They tap the line, the one Daxus has been so intent on calling, and then they wait.
00:19:01.680 Patsy is in bed.
00:19:02.840 She's not in good shape.
00:19:04.500 She's quickly dying, the cancer taking her.
00:19:07.200 Yet she is prepared to talk to the man who says he strangled her only daughter,
00:19:11.900 just to keep him on the line long enough for police to trace him.
00:19:16.420 A dying mother waits by the phone, ready to hear her child's killer apologize.
00:19:23.020 He never calls.
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00:20:56.820 connexontario.ca. June 24th, 2006. It is a warm, hazy Saturday outside Atlanta. That day at her
00:21:05.760 father's home in Roswell, Georgia, with John at her side, Patsy Ramsey dies. She was 49 years old.
00:21:14.380 Patsy dies in the very same limbo she'd been living in since 1996, accused, uncharged,
00:21:20.240 and with no answers.
00:21:22.940 She is buried in Georgia beside the daughter
00:21:25.140 she was accused of killing.
00:21:28.040 Later that summer, Colorado Professor Michael Tracy
00:21:30.800 calls Daxus.
00:21:33.420 Daxus, this is my Tracy.
00:21:36.180 Hi, Michael.
00:21:37.140 There's some really bad news.
00:21:39.760 Patsy died.
00:21:41.640 I can never hear her say that she forgives me.
00:21:45.520 Patsy's death does something else.
00:21:47.840 It cracks a door open.
00:21:50.260 Daxus learns Tracy has the last photograph ever taken of JonBenet alive, and he wants it.
00:21:57.140 He emails and asks Tracy to scan it and send it over.
00:22:01.460 An investigator sees the opening.
00:22:03.680 Don't scan it, he tells Tracy.
00:22:05.680 Offer him the original.
00:22:07.100 Offer to mail it to him.
00:22:08.860 And Daxus, this man who has bragged for years that he is untraceable, bites.
00:22:16.000 He agrees to pick up the photo at a UPS box in Bangkok, Thailand.
00:22:21.380 Thai authorities put the UPS store under surveillance and wait.
00:22:27.100 Daxas, still talking to Tracy, can't help himself.
00:22:30.960 He mentions a mountain bike he just bought, describes it, says he's going to ride it to work at a school.
00:22:35.960 So one day in the summer of 2006, 10 years after JonBenet was killed, a man rides up on that exact bike, walks into the UPS store, and collects his package.
00:22:49.880 They have him on camera, and for about one week, Thai police follow him.
00:22:56.660 He's identified as John Mark Carr, 41 years old, American, and it gets worse.
00:23:03.660 because in Bangkok, John Mark Carr is teaching at an elementary school
00:23:08.680 with rooms full of small children.
00:23:12.820 Thai police move in.
00:23:15.520 It's a case that had run cold for a decade.
00:23:18.380 In a bizarre twist, while he was being paraded before cameras,
00:23:22.120 Carr actually responded to reporters' questions.
00:23:25.340 In front of the cameras in Bangkok, Carr does not deny it.
00:23:28.800 I love Robin A.
00:23:31.280 And she died accidentally.
00:23:33.660 Are you a Christian man?
00:23:35.520 No.
00:23:36.020 What happened?
00:23:37.800 Were you playing with her?
00:23:39.920 What happened?
00:23:44.480 Her death was an accident.
00:23:48.140 Investigators start delving into who this man actually is and what they find is disturbing.
00:23:53.200 In 2001, in Petaluma, California, working as a teacher again, John Mark Carr is arrested and charged with possession of child pornography.
00:24:04.980 He's heading for trial, and he runs, flees the country, and everywhere he lands, Asia, Europe, Latin America, he finds the very same job, teaching young children.
00:24:18.440 John Mark Carr, 41 years old, was arrested for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey yesterday morning at approximately 6 a.m. in Bangkok, Thailand.
00:24:32.820 He began his employment as a second grade teacher in the international school system in Bangkok on Tuesday morning of this week.
00:24:43.360 In off-camera comments recorded by the AP, Carr restated his claim that JonBenet's death was an accident.
00:24:50.000 And it's very important for me that everyone knows that I love her very much and that her death was unintentional and it was an accident.
00:24:59.940 The whole media machine roars back to life.
00:25:03.160 Carr is deported from Thailand and flown to Boulder in the front cabin of a commercial jet served shrimp and champagne.
00:25:10.240 A picture of the tabloids splash across every front page.
00:25:14.480 Forty cameras camp out in John Ramsey's front yard.
00:25:18.100 To a watching world for 12 days, this is the man who killed JonBenet Ramsey.
00:25:23.700 It feels impossibly like it might finally be over.
00:25:29.080 There's only one thing left to check.
00:25:31.500 The DNA.
00:25:33.320 They compare John Mark Carr's DNA to the unknown male profile,
00:25:38.220 The sample from under JonBenet's fingernails, from her clothing, it does not match.
00:25:45.160 The man who says he was with JonBenet Ramsey when she was killed in 1996 will not be charged in the case.
00:25:52.680 The Boulder County District Attorney says no charges will be filed against John Mark Carr.
00:25:57.200 Boulder County DA Mary Lacey released a statement,
00:25:59.820 and it had long been known that there was some DNA thought to be the killers in JonBenet's underclothes.
00:26:05.080 Lacey says they took a DNA sample from Carr and it didn't match that DNA.
00:26:10.960 The DNA isn't close.
00:26:13.580 John Mark Carr, who confessed for hours, was never actually inside the Ramsey home.
00:26:19.300 The confession was a fantasy.
00:26:21.620 The biggest break in the history of this case collapses in a matter of days.
00:26:27.620 To put a bow on it, investigators went looking for where John Mark Carr was in December of 1996.
00:26:33.620 and the answer comes from his own family.
00:26:37.340 He was in Alabama with them that Christmas.
00:26:40.580 There is no record that John Mark Carr ever set one foot in Colorado before 2006.
00:26:48.540 In 2008, Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacey sends John Benet's clothing
00:26:53.440 to a private lab for a newer, more sensitive kind of analysis called TouchDNA.
00:26:59.360 It looks for tiny traces of DNA left behind when someone touches something.
00:27:05.280 Even a small number of skin cells can sometimes be enough.
00:27:09.580 The lab pulls a male profile off the waistband of the long johns JonBenet was wearing in two separate spots,
00:27:17.520 and it matches the unknown male DNA already found in her underwear.
00:27:22.520 One unidentified male profile detected in three different locations on two garments.
00:27:29.360 To Lacey, this is no stray speck of contamination.
00:27:33.260 This is the residue of the hands that hurt JonBenet.
00:27:37.760 She makes a decision no Boulder prosecutor has made in 12 years.
00:27:42.280 Two years after Patsy Ramsey dies, Lacey clears the Ramsey family.
00:27:47.740 Publicly, completely, and in writing.
00:27:52.360 Lacey does something else unheard of for a prosecutor.
00:27:55.740 She writes the Ramseys a letter and she apologizes.
00:27:59.360 She writes that the office does not consider John Patsy or Burke Ramsey to be under any suspicion in the commission of this crime.
00:28:07.660 And then this, quote, to the extent that we may have contributed in any way to the public perception that you might have been involved in this crime.
00:28:15.720 I am deeply sorry.
00:28:17.780 Of course, that doesn't settle anything in this case, because not everyone believes the DNA means what Mary Lacey says it means.
00:28:27.060 And one of the loudest skeptics is a man named James Kolar,
00:28:31.180 a former investigator who worked the JonBenet case files
00:28:34.120 and comes away certain the answer was inside the house all along.
00:28:38.920 Here he is in October 2013.
00:28:42.120 I think it's extremely unlikely that an intruder was involved in this situation.
00:28:46.800 And what's frustrating for me is that the DNA evidence continues to be proffered as proof
00:28:55.960 that an intruder was involved.
00:28:59.100 There are six unidentified samples of DNA, trace amounts.
00:29:03.800 There were three people in the home that evening.
00:29:05.640 I think investigators needed to look at all three of them.
00:29:10.160 Kolar means the three people in the house that night,
00:29:13.240 John, Patsy, and the only child left, Burke.
00:29:17.140 And in 2013, the grand jury secret Alex Hunter carried
00:29:21.720 out of that 1999 press conference
00:29:24.040 finally breaks open.
00:29:26.940 A daily camera reporter named Charlie Brennan
00:29:29.520 sues the Boulder DA's office for the sealed grand jury records and wins.
00:29:34.720 And the public learns for the first time what Hunter has known all along,
00:29:39.800 that the grand jury had voted to indict the Ramseys.
00:29:43.920 Alex Hunter could have announced that afternoon
00:29:46.920 that the grand jury has elected not to indict anybody.
00:29:51.660 He could have said, the grand jury indicted somebody, but we're not going to prosecute it.
00:29:58.720 He didn't say either of those things.
00:30:02.000 A number of years down the road, two sources of mine told me, you can't report this, but they indicted both John and Patsy Ramsey.
00:30:14.040 So I set out to contact grand jurors directly.
00:30:18.100 and multiple grand jurors confirmed for me that's what happened here is what the documents
00:30:26.880 did not do they did not accuse burke ramsey by name accessory is a charge that only makes sense
00:30:34.340 if there is a principle someone the accessory is protecting and the indictments left that person
00:30:40.280 unnamed but the ambiguity left room for others to fill in the blank and a legacy tv network does
00:30:46.740 precisely that. On the 20th anniversary of the murder in 2016, CBS News puts the theory into
00:30:54.020 primetime that a nine-year-old Burke Ramsey struck his sister JonBenet and that his parents staged
00:31:00.920 everything else. A little boy who was never charged with anything, now 29 years old, is put on trial
00:31:07.940 again on television for a brand new audience. And for the first time in 20 years, Burke Ramsey
00:31:14.580 answers for himself weeks after the CBS special airs he sits down with dr. Phil
00:31:20.700 on national television now a grown man quiet uneasy in the chair facing
00:31:27.240 questions about a night he was a nine-year-old boy asleep down the hall
00:31:31.140 from his sister do you remember the last time you saw John Bonet alive I want to
00:31:38.460 say it was in the car on the way back from the whites do you remember waking
00:31:43.800 up that morning? Yep. The first thing I remember is my mom, first thing in my room, looking for
00:31:50.900 Jamonet. And the next thing I remember is a police officer coming to my room and shining a flashlight.
00:31:56.640 Did you hit your sister over the head with a baseball bat or a flashlight? Absolutely not.
00:32:04.380 Burke sues CBS for $750 million. The lawsuit ends the way almost everything in this case ends,
00:32:12.560 quietly behind closed doors in a sealed settlement with no finding of fact on either side.
00:32:20.420 The record in the end holds three official judgments that pull in opposite directions,
00:32:27.260 a grand jury that voted to indict the parents as accessories and a prosecutor who buried that vote.
00:32:33.860 A district attorney who years later cleared the whole family by name in writing on the strength
00:32:40.000 of the DNA, and a sealed set of indictments pried loose later still, whose unanswered language would
00:32:47.500 be used to point suspicion toward the only other person known to be in that house, a little boy.
00:32:55.160 Three official acts, three different directions, no answers, nothing. An indictment is not a
00:33:03.640 conviction because a grand jury hears only one side. Mary Lacey's letter purported to clear the
00:33:10.420 family, but it never named the killer. And Alex Hunter's decision not to charge explained nothing
00:33:16.900 and exonerated no one. Nearly 30 years after JonBenet's murder, the only thing left to hope for
00:33:24.220 is an answer from the actual evidence. That is where Jon Ramsey has put his energy in the years
00:33:31.720 since Patsy's death. He is chasing the DNA and a new technology that did not exist when his
00:33:39.100 daughter was killed. Genetic genealogy changes what a single unknown DNA profile can do.
00:33:46.480 The old method needed the suspect's DNA to be sitting already in a database. The new method
00:33:53.520 does not. It looks for any genetic link in a DNA database to this person, then works the family
00:34:01.980 tree of that person generation by generation toward a name of a possible suspect. This is
00:34:10.220 the method that finally put a name to the Golden State Killer decades after his crime stopped.
00:34:15.700 And in November of 2022, when four University of Idaho students are murdered in their beds,
00:34:21.800 It is genetic genealogy that identifies the suspect, Brian Kohlberger, in a matter of weeks,
00:34:28.560 thanks to touch DNA on the knife sheath the killer left behind.
00:34:33.360 John Ramsey wants the same science used on his daughter's case.
00:34:37.500 But the obstacle is not the science.
00:34:40.740 It's jurisdiction.
00:34:42.840 The evidence belongs, you see, to the Boulder PD.
00:34:45.620 And only the Boulder PD can decide to test it.
00:34:49.360 So John takes his fight to the governor of Colorado.
00:34:52.640 When John sat down with me in December 2022, this is one of the primary things he wanted to discuss.
00:34:59.920 And that's really all we're asking the governor to do is push the case either out of the boulder
00:35:06.400 hands or require them to take this evidence to be tested by one of the one or two really
00:35:16.780 cutting-edge labs in this country and see what we get.
00:35:20.100 If we can get some more good DNA evidence, then you take that evidence and put it in
00:35:25.620 the public database and see what you come up with.
00:35:29.240 In fact, they're the ones that said, look, the government does not have the latest DNA
00:35:33.260 technology.
00:35:35.360 We'll get it eventually, but we don't have it.
00:35:37.020 We don't have it at the FBI.
00:35:38.180 They certainly don't have it at the state level.
00:35:40.060 And, of course, it's not even ridiculous to think they have it at the police level.
00:35:44.380 They told us that we've got to get this DNA testing done by one of these one or two very cutting-edge labs outside.
00:35:52.240 And then use this new approach of genealogy tracing.
00:35:58.400 john talks about specific items still sitting in evidence five six maybe seven pieces from
00:36:05.900 the crime scene that were sent years ago to an outside lab and he says came back untested
00:36:12.100 returned to a shelf among them he says is the garage the murder weapon itself with knots he
00:36:20.720 believes have never been untied and swabbed for the skin cells of the hands that tied them
00:36:26.920 Nearly 30 years on, the object used to strangle his daughter may still hold an answer that existing testing has not produced.
00:36:35.600 In December of 2025, there is movement.
00:36:40.080 In their annual update on the case, the Boulder police say they have done something close to what John Ramsey has been asking for.
00:36:46.600 New interviews, new evidence collected, and old evidence retested, this time with the newest DNA technology available.
00:36:56.060 Officials will not say what that evidence is or where it points.
00:37:01.040 The Boulder Chief of Police, Steve Redfern, says only that the department will keep working with DNA experts around the country until this tragic case is solved.
00:37:10.520 My direction to our department has been clear.
00:37:13.760 Leave no stone unturned.
00:37:15.540 Our detectives have conducted several new interviews, as well as re-interviewed individuals based on tips that we've received.
00:37:22.000 We've also collected new evidence and tested and retested other pieces of evidence to generate new leads.
00:37:29.100 Nearly 30 years in, this is the closest thing to forward motion this case has produced in a very long time.
00:37:36.180 Still, no name, no arrest, no answers.
00:37:39.800 But for the first time in a while, the sense that someone is finally looking again.
00:37:46.920 30 years on, the public interest in the case of JonBenet Ramsey remains high.
00:37:54.040 JonBenet is about to become a prestige streaming drama, The Murder of JonBenet Ramsey, an
00:38:00.040 eight-part Netflix series starring Melissa McCarthy as Patsy and Clive Owen as Jon.
00:38:06.220 The story retold once more for an audience that was not alive when she died.
00:38:11.500 But a television series is not going to solve this.
00:38:15.920 Nothing is going to solve this, except perhaps those tiny, imperceptible specks of human cells sitting in a Colorado evidence room.
00:38:26.640 In sealed bags and paper envelopes, in a property room in Boulder, the answer is most likely already there.
00:38:34.760 On a length of cord, on the waistband of a child's long johns, in the profile of an unknown male that has waited, patient and silent.
00:38:45.920 to be discovered since the day after Christmas, 1996.
00:38:50.100 The science to read it has finally arrived.
00:38:53.480 The question remaining is whether anyone will let it speak.
00:38:59.020 I'm Megan Kelly.
00:39:00.880 Tune in next week as we unpack another mystery on MK Confidential.
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