The Megyn Kelly Show - Vivek's 9⧸11 Spin, Trump's Arrest Theater, and Prigozhin Dies in Plane Crash, with The Fifth Column Hosts

00:00:00.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.320 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. It's debate day in America.

00:00:17.940 The first GOP debate tonight. It begins at 9 p.m. Eastern Time and we expect eight candidates on the stage, not Trump.

00:00:27.100 He's going to be doing an interview, which we understand has been taped, with Tucker.

00:00:31.760 Also, Doug Burgum, the North Dakota governor, may not be on the stage either, even though he qualified,

00:00:38.720 because he was rushed to the hospital yesterday evening after an injury playing basketball.

00:00:45.260 It's always something, though they say now he's out of the hospital and there's a question about whether he can stand at the lectern.

00:00:53.900 Something tells me he'll find a way, right? It's like he went through all this effort to actually make it out there.

00:00:59.540 I don't know what happened to him, but if he's out of the hospital, you got to imagine he's going to do everything within his power to actually get up on that stage.

00:01:05.400 We'll see. Well, I'll tell you this. If the moderators and the other candidates do their jobs tonight,

00:01:10.420 one topic will be Vivek Ramaswamy's recent comments about 9-11.

00:01:15.440 Vivek is in the midst of a controversy entirely of his own making, and it's irritating on a few different levels.

00:01:22.860 He's been playing footsie with 9-11 trutherism, the idea that 9-11 was an inside job.

00:01:28.420 And I have to say it's just deeply offensive on a number of levels, not to mention disrespectful to the families of the victims.

00:01:33.940 Why is he doing this? This is totally unnecessary.

00:01:36.100 He's rolling along just fine. This is completely unnecessary.

00:01:38.940 We know who was behind the 9-11 attacks, and it was not the U.S. government.

00:01:43.840 When confronted with this odd decision, he denied that he had done it, and then he blamed the dishonest media.

00:01:50.160 Well, that does not work when it is not actually the media's fault and where the press has not actually been dishonest.

00:01:55.940 Not to mention, it undermines other legitimate accusations of media dishonesty

00:02:00.200 when a politician throws that term around just to cover his own absurd missteps.

00:02:05.100 Yes, I am aware he's not the only politician to do this.

00:02:08.180 But Vivek's whole rap is, I'm the one based in facts and truth.

00:02:13.980 Great. Let's have some.

00:02:16.640 Here's what happened.

00:02:18.260 On August 1st, the Blaze TV's Alex Stein asked Vivek a question during a rapid-fire exchange

00:02:24.920 about whether 9-11 was an inside job.

00:02:28.720 Okay, 9-11, inside job, or exactly what the government tells us.

00:02:33.460 I don't believe the government has told us the truth.

00:02:36.120 Again, I'm driven by evidence and data.

00:02:38.180 What I've seen in the last several years is we have to be skeptical of what the government does tell us.

00:02:44.020 I haven't seen evidence to the contrary, but do I believe everything the government told us about it?

00:02:48.060 Absolutely not.

00:02:49.140 I still believe the 9-11 Commission.

00:02:50.880 Absolutely not.

00:02:51.540 It was a pander to someone he knew was looking for a little conspiratorial red meat.

00:03:14.720 But he admits in that clip that at least as of that date, August 1st, Vivek had seen no evidence

00:03:21.900 that the government failed to tell us the full truth about 9-11.

00:03:25.320 Not to worry.

00:03:26.540 Soon, when under fire for those comments, he would go searching.

00:03:30.160 Okay, but we know as of that date, by his own comments, he did not have any evidence of this in his head.

00:03:37.380 The Wall Street Journal, Mike Pence, and many others hit him for not clearly denouncing the suggestion

00:03:42.500 that 9-11 was an inside job and for instead fueling the fire about a government cover-up.

00:03:47.380 Well, by August 9th, Vivek thought it was time to take to Twitter.

00:03:52.360 He dismissed this exchange as having been with, quote, a comedian podcaster.

00:03:58.900 Having finally now done some homework on 9-11, Vivek went on to claim, quote,

00:04:03.280 I wasn't referring to the baseless theories about controlled demolitions at buildings around the World Trade Center,

00:04:08.240 but the very real possibility supported by recently declassified documents that al-Qaeda's attack was undertaken

00:04:14.700 with support from Saudi intelligence officials.

00:04:17.720 Oh, really?

00:04:18.600 You were referring to the FBI report declassified in 2021?

00:04:22.240 Weird.

00:04:23.180 Because you told Alex Stein, quote, I have not seen any evidence of this,

00:04:26.680 but I don't believe everything the government told us about 9-11.

00:04:29.660 You told him you hadn't seen any evidence.

00:04:31.920 Why didn't you mention the Saudi report?

00:04:34.180 I thought you hadn't seen any evidence.

00:04:35.700 Which is it?

00:04:36.920 Look, the whole thing's stuck in my craw.

00:04:38.660 I don't like seeing somebody like Vivek come in and turn into your classic politician who just lies.

00:04:45.940 Just fucking own it.

00:04:47.020 Sorry, forgive me.

00:04:48.240 Just own it.

00:04:49.440 You screwed up.

00:04:50.220 It was a dumbass thing to say.

00:04:52.720 Abide by your truth brand and own it.

00:04:57.900 The problem here for Vivek was, unbeknownst to the rest of us,

00:05:01.560 this wasn't the first time he had done this.

00:05:04.060 Weeks before he spoke with Alex Stein, he had given an interview to The Atlantic

00:05:09.860 and a reporter named John Hendrickson.

00:05:12.600 And there, too, he pushed a form of 9-11 trutherism,

00:05:16.600 making comments that seemed to suggest 9-11 was an inside job.

00:05:20.100 Nothing about the Saudis there either, by the way.

00:05:22.820 To Hendrickson, Vivek volunteered that it's totally legitimate for Americans to just ask,

00:05:28.480 you know, how many federal agents were on the planes that hit the Twin Towers?

00:05:33.200 What?

00:05:34.340 Who is asking that?

00:05:35.940 Why is that a legitimate question?

00:05:37.560 What is he saying?

00:05:38.820 I thought we weren't pushing, quote, baseless theories.

00:05:42.080 The Atlantic piece, including those comments, then hit this week, this past Monday,

00:05:46.680 and the blowback was almost immediate.

00:05:49.180 The comments caught fire online, with many conservatives and liberals criticizing them

00:05:52.740 as bizarre conspiracy crap pandering nonsense.

00:05:56.900 That same night, the fake goes on CNN with Caitlin Collins.

00:06:01.580 The proper move here was obvious.

00:06:05.300 Caitlin, I should have been more careful in commenting on something that is still an open wound

00:06:10.320 for many Americans.

00:06:11.460 This was no way to handle such a delicate, painful topic involving the murder of 3,000 Americans.

00:06:16.880 No, the new approach is deny the remarks were even made and also defend them.

00:06:24.660 Listen.

00:06:24.920 A report in the Atlantic that you gave an interview to, you said, quote,

00:06:29.920 I think it is legitimate to say how many police, how many federal agents were on the planes

00:06:34.460 that hit the Twin Towers.

00:06:36.040 Maybe the answer is zero.

00:06:37.440 It probably is zero for all I know, right?

00:06:39.820 I have no reason to think it was anything other than zero.

00:06:42.320 But if we're doing a comprehensive assessment of what happened on 9-11, we have a 9-11 commission.

00:06:47.340 Absolutely, there should be an answer the public knows the answer to.

00:06:50.760 Explain to me what you meant there.

00:06:53.480 This is really, it's funny.

00:06:55.060 I mean, the Atlantic is playing the same game as CNN.

00:06:57.480 It's funny.

00:06:57.880 What I said is, on January 6th, I do believe that there were many federal agents in the field,

00:07:03.480 and we deserve to know who they are.

00:07:05.120 On 9-11, what I've said is that the government lied.

00:07:07.620 And this is incontrovertible evidence, Caitlin.

00:07:10.120 The government lied about Saudi Arabia's involvement.

00:07:12.820 But your quote here, are you telling me that the quote is wrong here?

00:07:15.220 20 years later, yeah.

00:07:16.300 But are you telling me that your quote is wrong here because it says

00:07:18.380 how many federal agents were on the planes at the Twin Towers?

00:07:22.200 Yeah, when I actually, and this is just lifting the curtain on how media works again,

00:07:25.820 I asked that reporter to send the recording because it was on the record.

00:07:28.600 He refused to do it.

00:07:29.520 But we had a free-flowing conversation.

00:07:31.540 The truth is, there are lies the government has told about 9-11,

00:07:34.360 but it's not the ones that somebody put in my mouth.

00:07:36.100 It's the one that I articulated.

00:07:37.620 Which is that Saudi Arabia, absolutely, their intelligence was involved in 9-11.

00:07:44.080 Okay, so the quote is wrong.

00:07:46.540 He says so explicitly.

00:07:48.140 This is all media games by CNN and The Atlantic, according to Vivek.

00:07:53.580 Except it's not wrong.

00:07:55.940 It's exact.

00:07:57.240 And The Atlantic has now released the audio tape so we can hear it for ourselves.

00:08:01.720 What is the truth about January 6th?

00:08:04.840 I don't know.

00:08:05.380 We can handle it.

00:08:06.080 Whatever it is, we can handle it.

00:08:07.860 Government agents.

00:08:08.680 How many government agents were in the field?

00:08:10.920 Right?

00:08:11.440 You mean like entrapment?

00:08:12.780 Yeah.

00:08:14.740 Absolutely.

00:08:15.140 Like, why can the government not be transparent about something that we're using?

00:08:20.920 Terrorists, or the kind of tax abuse by terrorists,

00:08:24.320 if we find that there are hundreds of our own in the ranks of the day that they were,

00:08:28.140 that they were, I mean, look.

00:08:30.560 Well, there's a difference between entrapment,

00:08:32.040 a difference between the law enforcement agent identifying this.

00:08:34.480 I think it is legitimate to say how many police,

00:08:37.720 how many federal agents were on the planes that hit between towers.

00:08:40.700 Like, I think we want it.

00:08:41.640 Maybe the answer's zero.

00:08:42.500 Probably a zero, for all I know, right?

00:08:44.680 I've got no reason to think it was anything other than zero.

00:08:47.120 But if we're doing a comprehensive assessment of what happened on 9-11,

00:08:50.360 we have a 9-11 commission,

00:08:52.380 absolutely, that should be an answer the public knows the answer to.

00:08:55.540 Well, if we're doing a January 6th commission,

00:08:57.560 absolutely, those should be questions that we should get to the bottom of.

00:09:01.360 If we're doing a 9-11 commission,

00:09:03.640 and there are federal agents on the plane, we deserve to know.

00:09:06.440 And if we're doing a Janssen commission,

00:09:08.520 and there are federal officers in the field,

00:09:10.080 we deserve to know.

00:09:11.500 Just tell us the truth.

00:09:14.480 Tell us what happened.

00:09:16.100 I think it's interesting to compare contrast 9-11 and January 6th.

00:09:22.580 Oh, yeah.

00:09:23.240 I don't think they belong in the same conversation.

00:09:25.220 I'm only bringing it up because it was...

00:09:27.580 I am not making the comparison.

00:09:29.660 I think it's a ridiculous comparison.

00:09:30.840 I'm not comparing, but...

00:09:31.620 But I'm saying that I brought it up only because

00:09:33.380 it was invoked as a basis for the Gen 6 commission.

00:09:37.160 Of course.

00:09:38.200 What I'm saying, though, is that

00:09:39.540 I think Democrats and Republicans would agree

00:09:44.900 9-11 is a day that's like Pearl Harbor Day,

00:09:48.560 where there are good guys and bad guys,

00:09:51.400 and America was attacked.

00:09:53.800 I mean, I would take the truth about 9-11.

00:09:56.480 I mean, I am not questioning what we've done.

00:09:59.960 This is not something I'm staking anything out of,

00:10:01.940 but I want the truth about 9-11.

00:10:03.180 It's exactly as the Atlantic said it was,

00:10:09.500 and he denied on CNN.

00:10:11.940 Now, Vivek is tweeting about the CNN reporter being a, quote,

00:10:15.200 petulant teenager.

00:10:17.040 Look, it's true.

00:10:17.860 She has a grating style.

00:10:19.480 She's got about as much warmth as the Nancy Pelosi ice cream collection,

00:10:22.500 but her demeanor was not the problem here.

00:10:25.440 His dishonesty was.

00:10:28.040 It was wrong of the Democrats to compare the January 6th attacks to 9-11.

00:10:32.320 Outrageous.

00:10:33.500 And we called them out on it repeatedly.

00:10:35.420 But it is also wrong of Vivek to use baseless bullshit conspiracy theories

00:10:39.800 about federal agents on the 9-11 planes

00:10:41.820 to make his case about government dishonesty.

00:10:44.800 There are certain things most of us in this country still hold inviolate.

00:10:49.800 9-11 is one of them.

00:10:52.360 Politicians on the left and right,

00:10:53.980 you have no business using the murder of 3,000 Americans

00:10:58.100 to build your brand as an alleged warrior of truth, period.

00:11:04.900 Okay, that's, I like Vivek.

00:11:08.100 This is a big misstep.

00:11:09.720 He needs to fix it.

00:11:11.500 He needs to fix it.

00:11:12.520 Get off this weird-ass train, all right?

00:11:15.920 You're not doing yourself or the Republican Party any favors.

00:11:19.540 I only wish I were moderating that debate tonight

00:11:22.820 because I know exactly where I would go with him.

00:11:26.140 Joining us now to discuss it all,

00:11:28.280 Camille Foster, partner at Freethink,

00:11:30.800 journalist Michael Moynihan,

00:11:32.440 and editor-at-large for Reason Magazine, Matt Welsh.

00:11:35.680 They are the hosts of the Fifth Column podcast,

00:11:38.440 which you can find and support on Substack

00:11:40.560 at wethefifth.substack.com.

00:11:43.980 Welcome back to the show, guys.

00:11:45.360 So, what do you make of it?

00:11:48.940 Oh, man.

00:11:50.120 Where does one begin with this?

00:11:52.120 I think you're right about all of this stuff.

00:11:54.820 The comparison is bizarre, is baffling.

00:11:59.060 Why would there be federal agents on a,

00:12:02.260 the flights on 9-11 makes no sense to me.

00:12:04.620 But there are no other historical antecedents

00:12:08.820 that you could come up with.

00:12:10.020 You had to come up with 9-11.

00:12:11.500 As you said, Megan,

00:12:12.720 the answer to this is very, very simple.

00:12:14.860 Because it used to be the purview

00:12:16.580 of people entirely on the left.

00:12:18.320 I mean, we used to point this out.

00:12:19.460 After 9-11, there was all sorts of,

00:12:21.280 you know, polls and studies that said

00:12:23.240 people in New York,

00:12:24.200 I mean, people in New York,

00:12:24.940 liberals in New York,

00:12:26.000 30% of them, 40%,

00:12:27.440 don't quote me on this,

00:12:28.080 but there was a high number of people

00:12:29.500 that said this was the Bush administration.

00:12:32.840 This was an inside job.

00:12:33.840 And this was a stick that you would

00:12:35.860 very kind of offensively beat

00:12:37.960 the Bush administration Republican Party with

00:12:39.560 back then.

00:12:41.220 And that was a thing that people on the right

00:12:43.540 used to attack people on the left.

00:12:46.000 The fact that this is happening 20 years later,

00:12:47.700 I think there might have something to do with this,

00:12:49.220 is that Vivek was probably 16 years old,

00:12:51.220 if I'm doing the math right.

00:12:52.660 Correct.

00:12:53.240 On 9-11.

00:12:54.320 And those of us who were not 16 years old,

00:12:56.160 I know I looked very young,

00:12:57.160 but I was an adult at the time,

00:12:59.280 that that was not something

00:13:01.600 that I would ever treat lightly.

00:13:03.060 I was in New York at the time.

00:13:04.420 I still treat it very seriously.

00:13:06.400 I still was offended when Chuck Schumer said,

00:13:10.540 I think on the year anniversary of January 6th,

00:13:14.000 the year anniversary of January 6th,

00:13:15.520 like it was some amazing event

00:13:17.240 that we have to memorialize every year,

00:13:19.100 compared to, I think,

00:13:20.200 to Pearl Harbor,

00:13:21.320 where also 3,000 people died.

00:13:23.140 I wasn't alive then.

00:13:24.240 And I think that's a kind of

00:13:25.560 pornographic comparison too.

00:13:27.140 But the response to this is quite simple.

00:13:29.060 Well, I'm going to play the Saudi thing.

00:13:30.860 Well, you know,

00:13:31.360 we're not unclear about this.

00:13:32.560 The Saudis were dodgy about it.

00:13:33.700 The 9-11 report wasn't kind of full-throated

00:13:36.220 enough about them, perhaps.

00:13:37.860 I don't think that's entirely right.

00:13:39.460 But to come out and say that,

00:13:40.640 look, there are people on the left

00:13:42.060 that have said this for a long time

00:13:43.380 because they hate America

00:13:44.800 and they hated the Bush administration

00:13:46.360 and they blame every foreign policy issue

00:13:49.520 around the world on America

00:13:50.880 and they blamed the terrorism attack

00:13:53.320 that afflicted America on 9-11 on ourselves.

00:13:56.160 I do not do something like that.

00:13:58.500 It was a comparison that I made

00:13:59.880 for X, Y, and Z reason.

00:14:00.900 If you think that I'm denying it,

00:14:02.700 that's the thing that nutty people do.

00:14:05.180 I am not.

00:14:06.380 That's not a hard thing to say.

00:14:07.980 Why would one not come out

00:14:09.120 and say that in a full-throated manner?

00:14:10.740 I don't know.

00:14:11.280 He denied it.

00:14:12.100 He made it worse.

00:14:13.140 He denied he'd ever said it

00:14:14.940 to the Atlantic guys.

00:14:16.980 And then the Atlantic did release the audio.

00:14:19.640 He did say it.

00:14:20.980 We have ears.

00:14:22.200 We know he said it.

00:14:23.160 And by the way,

00:14:24.080 he said it to the Atlantic

00:14:25.320 and then he said something similar to Alex Stein.

00:14:27.900 He's been flirting with the trutherism

00:14:30.780 for at least July and August.

00:14:33.020 And only now did he go on CNN

00:14:36.060 and try to come up with this Saudi stuff,

00:14:37.980 which is like actually not breaking news.

00:14:40.080 He's trying to pin it all on that.

00:14:41.420 Well, weird how you never mentioned any of that.

00:14:42.900 In fact, what you actually said,

00:14:43.820 which you had seen absolutely no evidence of the lies.

00:14:46.200 But, you know, it's whatever.

00:14:48.240 People don't prepare for the interviews

00:14:49.460 and people get away with this bullshit.

00:14:52.000 He's not getting away with it

00:14:53.060 because it was on audio tape.

00:14:54.220 Go ahead, Matt.

00:14:54.640 Matt, go ahead.

00:14:56.380 Welch, whatever his name is.

00:14:57.320 Yeah, you said we have ears,

00:15:00.320 which begs the question or suggests the question.

00:15:03.100 Who's we?

00:15:04.520 We have ears.

00:15:06.000 We all listen to this.

00:15:06.940 We listened to this just now.

00:15:08.280 A lot of people who consume a ton of political news

00:15:11.620 every day on Twitter, on cable news,

00:15:14.280 have ears, listen to this.

00:15:15.660 A lot of journalists who pay attention to this,

00:15:17.220 probably more than even than they should,

00:15:19.520 have ears and they can't believe

00:15:21.260 that he did all of this.

00:15:22.340 But I suggest perhaps an even kind of darker idea,

00:15:27.160 which is that he knows full well what he's doing

00:15:28.780 and that it's not going to put a dent in his popularity.

00:15:33.780 What he's going to do,

00:15:34.840 there's a political feature,

00:15:36.120 magazine feature that came out on him today.

00:15:37.580 It's pretty interesting.

00:15:38.300 I recommend people look at it.

00:15:40.840 He talks about some of the same stuff

00:15:42.620 and there's a there's a he was confronted

00:15:45.080 by the reporter about Mike Pence's initial

00:15:48.020 kind of outrage and criticism of what he said in this case.

00:15:52.060 And his response is telling.

00:15:53.840 And I think it's going to telegraph

00:15:55.120 how he's going to deal with this tonight

00:15:56.840 when he is confronted about this,

00:15:59.100 either by Pence or the other moderator or whoever.

00:16:01.320 He says, and this is a quote,

00:16:02.920 they'll lie in public about Pat Tillman.

00:16:04.880 They'll lie to the public

00:16:05.640 about weapons of mass destruction.

00:16:07.160 It's the same people who lied about Pat Tillman,

00:16:09.040 who lied about the weapons of mass destruction,

00:16:10.440 lied to us today about the truth,

00:16:12.060 about how many police officers were in the field

00:16:13.860 on January 6th,

00:16:15.100 who lied about the Nashville Shooter Manifesto,

00:16:17.080 who lied to us about the origin of COVID-19

00:16:19.480 and so on and so on.

00:16:21.320 You see what he's doing.

00:16:22.180 What he's doing is he's appealing to people

00:16:24.680 their sense of righteous, in many cases, outrage

00:16:28.560 that the establishment has screwed up

00:16:31.080 over and over and over again in the last 25 years.

00:16:33.980 And that sometimes that screwing up,

00:16:35.960 especially in the case of COVID,

00:16:37.340 which is the one that's front most on our minds

00:16:39.120 these days, probably,

00:16:40.520 that led to really bad policy

00:16:43.440 that led to people having to change their lifestyles

00:16:46.740 in ways they didn't appreciate.

00:16:48.200 So he's hitting that, I think, on purpose.

00:16:51.120 He knows that in the Republican primary field right now,

00:16:54.460 basically for eight uninterrupted years,

00:16:57.160 who have voters gravitated towards

00:16:59.600 in presidential politics?

00:17:00.980 A majority, since September 2015,

00:17:03.880 of Republican voters in polls,

00:17:05.980 at least expressed that way,

00:17:07.440 have favored people who are not politicians

00:17:10.380 and who say crazy stuff.

00:17:13.440 Ever since Ben Carson,

00:17:14.940 who would compare his breakfast cereal

00:17:17.480 to Nazis back in 2015,

00:17:19.120 and Donald Trump emerged,

00:17:21.560 and Donald Trump said a lot of just throwing things

00:17:23.160 against the wall,

00:17:24.260 some of it sounded really rational,

00:17:25.900 as does Vivek.

00:17:26.860 There's a lot of really rational-sounding things

00:17:28.300 that I like,

00:17:28.980 and some of it sounds crazy,

00:17:30.400 like death taxes are cool,

00:17:31.900 which is something that he's been coming up with

00:17:33.140 recently.

00:17:33.940 But they're total outsiders

00:17:35.280 because Republican voters are in the mood

00:17:37.420 to say,

00:17:38.220 we don't want normal politicians.

00:17:40.660 So what Vivek is doing right now

00:17:42.720 and what this little loop of the media,

00:17:45.020 fact-checking and getting upset with him,

00:17:47.180 and even, I'm sure he'll play the Megyn Kelly clip

00:17:49.320 and try to use it to his favor.

00:17:51.480 See, establishment Megyn Kelly's doing it again

00:17:53.740 or something.

00:17:54.600 Oh yeah, good luck.

00:17:55.540 I know you're going to bury your fangs and claws at him.

00:17:58.980 But I think that he's consciously using this,

00:18:02.140 and it'll be a really interesting test

00:18:03.580 to see whether it continues to work,

00:18:06.040 because one of the most interesting things

00:18:07.540 so far about this Republican primary

00:18:09.040 is he is gaining

00:18:10.360 and all the normies are stuck in nowheresville.

00:18:15.060 This is so cynical though, Camille.

00:18:16.520 It's like those things that Matt just listed

00:18:18.460 really are government lies.

00:18:20.840 You know, we were lied to on COVID

00:18:22.320 and so many of the other things

00:18:23.600 that he just ticked off.

00:18:24.660 It is not okay to link 9-11 trutherism

00:18:29.180 with the lies we were told about COVID.

00:18:31.920 That makes Vivek the liar.

00:18:33.680 That takes the, it makes him the bad guy

00:18:37.980 as opposed to the people

00:18:38.840 who actually are telling the lies.

00:18:40.140 And it can be confusing to Americans

00:18:41.720 who are hearing this nonsense.

00:18:43.660 There is a faction of the Republican Party right now

00:18:46.800 that's gotten very conspiratorial.

00:18:48.520 There is.

00:18:49.260 And it's not the people who believe Fauci lied

00:18:51.400 and the CDC lied and, you know,

00:18:53.080 the FBI is not fair and the DOJ misleads.

00:18:57.640 It's not those people.

00:18:58.600 There is a faction that goes down a dark rabbit hole

00:19:02.540 and he's flirting with them.

00:19:04.800 That I do think,

00:19:05.880 I don't think Vivek really thinks 9-11 was an inside job

00:19:08.760 or that we had federal agents on the planes.

00:19:11.100 What is he saying?

00:19:12.180 What, that this was like entrapment?

00:19:14.120 That the federal agents somehow entrapped

00:19:16.260 the poor terrorists into actually flying the planes

00:19:18.840 into the towers?

00:19:19.640 That we actually were behind it the whole time?

00:19:21.560 We were working in tandem,

00:19:22.660 holding hands like a couple of these Saudi intel officials.

00:19:25.780 Like we were in, what is he, why?

00:19:27.800 Why would he say US federal agents

00:19:29.800 were on the planes that hit the towers?

00:19:31.080 How dare he say that?

00:19:32.940 Honestly, there's zero evidence of that.

00:19:34.820 That's, that's crazy ass shit

00:19:37.040 that you'd see deep in the rabbit hole on Reddit, Camille.

00:19:40.360 So for him to link that shit

00:19:42.120 to what, what we know are legitimate gripes,

00:19:45.560 thus I would suggest to you

00:19:46.960 tarring the GOP as a whole, right?

00:19:50.680 Like this is what the Democrats will use to say,

00:19:52.480 these people are lunatics.

00:19:54.180 You know, we can't tell you what a woman is,

00:19:56.060 but they think 9-11 was an inside job, right?

00:19:58.460 Like it's, it's, it's incredibly cynical and wrong.

00:20:02.580 I, and this is, I've made a very difficult bed for myself

00:20:05.660 because I try my very best to give people

00:20:09.240 the benefit of the doubt

00:20:10.200 and attribute the best possible motivation to them

00:20:13.220 within reason, within reason.

00:20:14.620 And I, I've met Vivek.

00:20:15.800 And as I heard you say, Megan, I like him as a person.

00:20:18.480 I think that he is generally like quite bright.

00:20:21.040 I'm mad at him, but I like him.

00:20:22.120 In a lot of the cases where we're having interactions,

00:20:24.020 I would also concur that this was pretty easy

00:20:28.300 for him to deal with.

00:20:29.360 If you spoke inelegantly and you said it in a way

00:20:33.160 that you didn't mean to say it, intimating certain things,

00:20:36.180 then you own it and you clarify.

00:20:38.680 You don't double down.

00:20:40.220 You don't try to act as though you've been misrepresented.

00:20:42.840 And you most certainly don't call for them to release audio

00:20:45.860 that is likely to make you look worse

00:20:48.260 when it finally arrives,

00:20:50.000 which is why I think him being as bright as I know him to be

00:20:54.540 in general, it's at least possible for me to think

00:20:58.500 that this isn't some sort of well-calibrated strategy

00:21:02.220 that he is perhaps speaking without having much actual knowledge

00:21:07.500 about what happened here.

00:21:08.580 And that the 2021 release of additional classified information

00:21:13.560 by the Biden administration,

00:21:14.740 giving us a better picture of what, if any role,

00:21:17.620 the Saudis had in it.

00:21:18.540 I would guess that Vivek didn't know anything about that

00:21:21.840 and hadn't actually looked at this carefully

00:21:23.360 before he started talking about this.

00:21:24.680 He only looked into it after he started getting hit.

00:21:26.200 That's why he admitted he has no evidence that they lied

00:21:28.840 when he made his comments to Alex Stein.

00:21:30.860 He didn't know anything.

00:21:31.720 He did a Google search after he started to get hit

00:21:34.360 and stumbled upon the thing with the Saudis.

00:21:36.460 Like, aha, I'll pin it all on that.

00:21:39.200 Yeah.

00:21:39.540 So it at least leads me to believe

00:21:40.800 that there is quite a bit more sloppiness

00:21:43.180 as opposed to kind of calculated deviousness.

00:21:45.980 And I will, however, forcefully agree

00:21:48.300 that there is this conspiratorial current

00:21:50.420 in the Republican Party,

00:21:51.360 but it's actually a little worse than that.

00:21:53.480 There is, broadly speaking,

00:21:54.900 an appetite for conspiracism on the left and the right.

00:21:57.720 And I don't need to draw any sort of equivalence there.

00:21:59.800 I don't need to.

00:22:01.020 I think anyone who's been paying attention

00:22:02.900 knows that this is the case,

00:22:04.300 knows that since Donald Trump was running for office,

00:22:07.500 let alone elected,

00:22:08.400 we've been talking about inside job,

00:22:10.920 Manchurian candidate nonsense,

00:22:12.580 and that is still very palpable.

00:22:15.620 The things that people in the different parties

00:22:18.100 are willing to completely ignore

00:22:19.780 for the benefit of their own kind of partisan interests.

00:22:23.060 The fact that we had autonomous zones

00:22:25.200 being declared in the summer of 2020,

00:22:27.940 like people seem to have forgotten

00:22:29.300 that kind of thing altogether.

00:22:31.900 So it is a very bizarre dark time.

00:22:35.760 And I think it actually demands

00:22:37.300 that people who want to be occupants

00:22:40.200 of the highest office in the land are operating

00:22:42.680 in an exceedingly respectable manner.

00:22:45.300 I know that there are benefits to flirting

00:22:47.180 with some of this darker nonsense,

00:22:49.260 but I think Vivek is certainly up to the task

00:22:52.120 of being respectable and above board while hitting hard.

00:22:55.980 And if that's what he wants to do,

00:22:57.660 then that's how he ought to conduct business.

00:23:00.180 No more of this flirtation,

00:23:01.680 no more of this nonsense trying to blame the media.

00:23:04.040 When you've made a mistake, own it and move on.

00:23:06.600 And please give Megan a call.

00:23:08.780 Let your people talk to her.

00:23:09.840 She's got good advice for your company.

00:23:11.080 I mean, I'm sure he'll come on.

00:23:12.500 He loves going on every media source.

00:23:15.060 Just to his credit.

00:23:15.700 He's been on the phone, yes.

00:23:17.540 Yeah.

00:23:18.040 No, I will say, Camille, I disagree.

00:23:19.780 I disagree with you on one thing.

00:23:22.780 I mean, I actually agree with Matt on this.

00:23:23.900 I do think the more that I think about this,

00:23:26.040 that it is plotted because Megan, you're right,

00:23:28.560 that I always assumed, not assumed,

00:23:31.000 but knew just from practical experience,

00:23:33.320 that conspiracism was kind of the domain of the left.

00:23:36.740 And it was for so long.

00:23:38.160 And they proved themselves again with the Russian nonsense

00:23:41.160 and repeating that in breathless Rachel Maddow episodes

00:23:45.120 where there's going to be a revelation that,

00:23:46.880 you know, Trump was working for the Comintern or something.

00:23:50.460 But that stuff never.

00:23:51.240 The other shoe was about to drop.

00:23:51.880 It was always about to drop.

00:23:53.440 But there is that bit that's happened on the right more recently.

00:23:57.560 And I think that, you know,

00:23:58.800 when Matt says it's plotted out or he knows what he's doing,

00:24:02.220 not as if there's some sort of whiteboard,

00:24:04.340 but when you see what happens with RFK

00:24:06.840 and RFK getting so much purchase on the right,

00:24:09.640 a man who is essentially a leftist,

00:24:11.220 his economic ideas are left wing.

00:24:13.480 He is a member of the Kennedy family.

00:24:15.020 We don't have to belabor that point,

00:24:16.860 but there's been so much purchase there on the left.

00:24:19.320 And Vivek is actually interesting

00:24:20.600 because he is 39 years old.

00:24:22.560 He is a member of the sort of internet only generation.

00:24:25.600 Mike Pence is not.

00:24:26.720 And he understands that when what I called along,

00:24:29.140 you know, probably a couple of months ago on the fifth column,

00:24:32.120 the veification of politics

00:24:34.060 and the veification of politics was they are doing this.

00:24:38.320 Never defined who it is.

00:24:39.600 They lied to you.

00:24:40.780 Who lied to you?

00:24:41.600 Well, they did.

00:24:42.760 I mean, there were some people in the military hierarchy

00:24:44.760 that did not want it to come out

00:24:46.220 that Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire

00:24:48.480 because he was a heroic guy

00:24:50.120 who signed up for the military,

00:24:51.600 afted and threw away an enormous NFL contract.

00:24:54.720 And, you know, the Jessica Lynch story,

00:24:56.340 all of that stuff,

00:24:57.180 it came out very quickly

00:24:58.880 and it was very quickly debunked.

00:25:00.660 And it's so funny because now in this version,

00:25:04.100 populism kind of demands

00:25:05.460 a certain conspiracy instinct to it.

00:25:07.420 And in this version of the Republican Party,

00:25:09.200 young people don't remember

00:25:10.380 that everybody on the right,

00:25:12.600 including, you know,

00:25:13.640 all most of the people on stage

00:25:15.160 were defending the Bush administration

00:25:17.060 during the 2000s,

00:25:19.160 during the Iraq war.

00:25:20.360 But now you it's it's de rigueur

00:25:22.940 that you get on stage and you say

00:25:24.300 the Iraq war was the biggest foreign policy disaster

00:25:26.440 in American history.

00:25:27.260 You denounce the Bushism in the past.

00:25:29.960 And so it's a very,

00:25:30.680 very interesting transition

00:25:31.720 from the left doing that

00:25:33.580 and talking about Pat Tillman

00:25:35.280 and weapons of mass destruction

00:25:36.480 to people very commonly doing this

00:25:38.720 on the right.

00:25:39.540 And I'm not saying they're totally wrong,

00:25:40.860 but I think the instinct

00:25:41.880 is very much an Internet one

00:25:43.240 because it does get a lot

00:25:45.040 of short term gain.

00:25:46.340 Camille said there is a gain.

00:25:47.200 I think he's right.

00:25:47.920 But I think it's short term.

00:25:49.340 I don't think that in the long term way

00:25:51.040 is a good strategy to play footsie

00:25:52.980 with these people

00:25:53.520 because they are fucking nuts.

00:25:54.860 Yeah, I agree.

00:25:56.900 Like this is this is

00:25:57.720 you're on your way to lizard people.

00:25:59.320 You are on the road to lizard people

00:26:01.420 if you go down this these lanes.

00:26:03.620 And that that's part of what I see

00:26:05.080 is my job is to

00:26:06.460 keep a tether to the truth,

00:26:09.080 to call out the lies

00:26:11.040 that were being told by the government

00:26:12.120 when it's happening,

00:26:12.760 to stay objective enough

00:26:15.060 that you can see them,

00:26:16.080 but also objective enough

00:26:17.460 that you can see when

00:26:18.440 when Republicans are bullshitting us, too.

00:26:20.660 And Vivek is bullshitting us

00:26:22.920 and he's bullshitting us

00:26:24.460 not just about, you know,

00:26:25.900 pilots, American pilot

00:26:27.280 or American federal agents

00:26:28.460 on the on the planes,

00:26:29.300 but about why now

00:26:32.240 he's taking fire for these comments.

00:26:34.500 He's he's trying to play a card

00:26:36.500 out of the Trump deck

00:26:37.600 where he's like,

00:26:38.860 it is coming for me

00:26:40.820 because I'm an outsider.

00:26:42.520 That's listen to this.

00:26:43.900 This is further from the interview

00:26:45.920 on CNN last night,

00:26:47.020 trying to explain

00:26:49.040 why why he's being

00:26:50.540 so unfairly attacked

00:26:51.700 for these comments.

00:26:52.960 Sot three.

00:26:54.340 I know this game comes up, Caitlin,

00:26:56.180 every time there's an outsider

00:26:57.480 who comes in.

00:26:58.380 I am guilty as charged

00:26:59.760 that I do not follow

00:27:00.620 the establishment super fact

00:27:01.880 donor approved script

00:27:02.940 on these questions,

00:27:03.760 but I am speaking truth,

00:27:05.320 grounded in fact,

00:27:06.320 at every step of the way.

00:27:07.640 And that's what's really elicited

00:27:09.240 something of an anaphylactic reaction

00:27:10.880 of the kind we saw in 2016

00:27:12.240 against a different candidate.

00:27:13.540 But this time I'm going to be grounded

00:27:14.940 in principles and conviction.

00:27:17.020 Not just vengeance and grievance,

00:27:18.800 which is exactly

00:27:19.240 how we will reunite this country.

00:27:21.880 OK, so he's I love the dig

00:27:24.320 at Trump at the end there.

00:27:25.280 Like he wants.

00:27:26.040 The only reason he has

00:27:26.800 any following whatsoever

00:27:27.740 is because he's attracted

00:27:29.040 some faction of the Trump fans

00:27:30.980 who are like, OK,

00:27:32.220 he sounds kind of like Trump.

00:27:33.300 He's not going to attack Trump.

00:27:34.760 There's some who aren't

00:27:35.740 on the Trump team,

00:27:36.300 but he's got a lot of Trump supporters

00:27:37.620 who are open minded to him.

00:27:38.880 And they've got to get

00:27:39.960 the Trump dig in there at the end

00:27:41.120 while trying to claim

00:27:42.260 he's the new Trump.

00:27:43.180 He's the outsider.

00:27:43.880 That's why he's getting attacked.

00:27:45.100 No, that's not why.

00:27:45.820 It's not because you're an outsider.

00:27:47.240 It's because of what you actually said.

00:27:49.540 And this isn't the first time.

00:27:51.200 OK, the Washington Examiner

00:27:52.280 had a piece yesterday

00:27:53.600 that talked about

00:27:55.600 how this is a pattern with Vivek

00:27:57.200 where I'll give you an example

00:27:59.240 from the piece.

00:28:00.540 They say, all right,

00:28:02.560 the candidate repeatedly

00:28:03.680 alleged in interviews

00:28:04.700 that the first time

00:28:05.480 he ever voted in an election

00:28:06.760 was in 2020 for Trump,

00:28:08.500 though then he later admitted

00:28:09.960 to the Washington Examiner

00:28:11.060 that he actually had voted in 2004.

00:28:13.380 And the Washington Examiner

00:28:14.780 had raised that with him

00:28:16.100 because they went

00:28:16.640 and found election records

00:28:17.620 in Ohio showing him voting in 2004.

00:28:20.180 He, according to the Washington Examiner,

00:28:22.480 told the examiner over the phone

00:28:23.980 when it brought the voting discrepancy

00:28:25.380 to his attention,

00:28:26.000 I appreciate you smoking that out for me.

00:28:27.660 That actually was very useful.

00:28:29.120 But then he went online

00:28:30.520 and posted,

00:28:31.200 this is the most false

00:28:32.500 and intentionally deceitful headline

00:28:33.880 of the campaign so far

00:28:34.980 about the Washington Examiner report.

00:28:37.360 Right.

00:28:37.780 So it wasn't false.

00:28:38.800 It wasn't intentionally deceitful.

00:28:40.160 Behind the scenes,

00:28:40.680 he thanked them

00:28:41.160 for the clarification

00:28:41.780 and he had said something

00:28:43.400 that wasn't true.

00:28:44.760 OK, then there's

00:28:45.860 let's see.

00:28:48.020 He told

00:28:49.240 I'm trying to get

00:28:50.300 all my facts here.

00:28:52.480 He told the Washington,

00:28:53.780 the New York Post

00:28:54.460 in mid-August

00:28:55.060 that he would be open

00:28:56.080 to evaluating pardons

00:28:57.540 for members of the Biden family

00:28:59.900 if he becomes president.

00:29:02.780 And then he later,

00:29:04.800 once the once the story hit

00:29:06.600 on social media,

00:29:07.600 said, no,

00:29:08.700 I don't have any plans

00:29:09.600 to pardon Hunter Biden.

00:29:10.780 That's planted trash.

00:29:12.460 When you strike the swamp,

00:29:13.780 the swamp strikes back.

00:29:15.760 The swamp?

00:29:16.820 The New York Post

00:29:17.480 is the swamp?

00:29:18.580 How is the swamp?

00:29:19.280 Washington Examiner?

00:29:20.760 Right.

00:29:21.560 Washington Examiner.

00:29:22.500 Famously left-wing

00:29:23.500 Washington Examiner.

00:29:24.980 Right.

00:29:25.320 So you could see

00:29:25.880 the pattern with him.

00:29:27.060 He's like,

00:29:27.980 I realize he's a politician now

00:29:29.960 and they all freaking lie.

00:29:31.760 It's just annoying

00:29:32.640 to see the swamp swampify

00:29:34.940 people like Vivek,

00:29:36.520 but it does.

00:29:38.240 I'm not sure it's the swamp,

00:29:39.300 though, Megan.

00:29:39.920 I mean, I think it's...

00:29:40.740 Is he the swamp?

00:29:41.400 He brought the swamp to the swamp?

00:29:43.080 I mean, let's pretend

00:29:45.140 that word doesn't exist

00:29:46.180 for a second

00:29:46.660 because I want to go back

00:29:48.300 to that world.

00:29:50.320 But it's been effective.

00:29:52.200 If anyone,

00:29:53.180 God help them

00:29:53.900 or God help all of us,

00:29:55.120 has been to the

00:29:55.880 Conservative Political Action

00:29:57.000 Conference

00:29:57.620 over the years

00:29:58.900 and has watched

00:30:00.260 a variety of

00:30:01.480 GOP presidential candidates

00:30:02.900 go up,

00:30:03.760 what is the applause line?

00:30:04.900 And this is true

00:30:05.400 before Trump.

00:30:06.120 It's certainly true

00:30:06.640 during Trump

00:30:07.220 and true whatever

00:30:08.620 stage we're living

00:30:09.820 through now.

00:30:10.540 The biggest applause line,

00:30:11.940 attack line,

00:30:13.220 you know,

00:30:13.480 20 years ago

00:30:14.060 was like the Kennedys

00:30:14.920 or San Francisco values

00:30:16.260 or whatever.

00:30:17.260 Now it's just media.

00:30:18.620 If you're attacking

00:30:19.420 the media

00:30:19.920 or if you want

00:30:21.020 some little unearned praise,

00:30:22.420 say the media

00:30:22.900 is attacking you,

00:30:23.860 that is it.

00:30:24.580 That wins

00:30:25.140 because the media

00:30:25.740 is a stand-in

00:30:26.680 for a culture

00:30:27.700 that people feel like

00:30:28.880 is looking down at them

00:30:30.020 and sneering at them.

00:30:31.280 And they feel like that

00:30:32.380 with a lot of cause.

00:30:33.940 They feel like there's

00:30:34.760 sort of a bifurcation

00:30:35.660 in America

00:30:36.260 that there's a journalistic

00:30:37.840 or kind of an elite class

00:30:39.380 that runs things,

00:30:40.700 kind of runs things badly

00:30:41.840 and looks over

00:30:43.080 middle America

00:30:43.820 with disdain.

00:30:44.680 And so you run

00:30:46.480 for that direction

00:30:47.820 if you are attempting

00:30:48.940 to win a presidential primary.

00:30:51.080 That's why I think

00:30:51.940 a lot of this is conscious.

00:30:53.560 So he's going,

00:30:54.340 he loves a headline

00:30:55.260 that says

00:30:55.820 CNN fact-checked

00:30:57.380 shows that Vivek Ramaswamy

00:30:59.300 was wrong about this.

00:31:00.920 Great.

00:31:01.260 It's great as far

00:31:02.400 as he is concerned.

00:31:03.220 It's not embarrassing

00:31:03.940 in the least.

00:31:04.940 Why would it be?

00:31:05.940 No, he's lying about it.

00:31:07.800 He's lying about it today, Matt.

00:31:09.300 His team came out today

00:31:11.000 to listen to this nonsense.

00:31:12.920 His campaign spokesperson

00:31:13.860 comes out and says,

00:31:15.020 we're grateful

00:31:15.540 that The Atlantic

00:31:16.200 released the audio

00:31:17.020 after we repeatedly

00:31:17.900 asked them to do so.

00:31:19.220 The audio clearly demonstrates

00:31:20.900 that Vivek was taken

00:31:22.420 badly out of context.

00:31:24.100 And even this small snippet

00:31:25.980 proves that.

00:31:26.960 No, it doesn't, Trisha.

00:31:28.740 No, it doesn't.

00:31:29.660 Keep going, Matt.

00:31:30.140 It doesn't.

00:31:30.240 What this reminds me of

00:31:31.820 is what Michael

00:31:32.820 was referencing before,

00:31:33.840 RFK Jr.

00:31:34.660 on the Democratic side,

00:31:36.180 when people,

00:31:37.240 including me

00:31:37.820 and probably you,

00:31:39.120 I think,

00:31:39.420 I forget, Megan,

00:31:40.280 posted video of him

00:31:41.500 making comments in 2014

00:31:42.660 about, you know,

00:31:44.000 imagining that he wanted

00:31:44.780 to jail the Koch brothers

00:31:46.200 and other people

00:31:46.820 who are climate deniers

00:31:49.380 in his words.

00:31:50.540 He immediately said,

00:31:51.420 although that video

00:31:52.060 was doctored.

00:31:52.880 Well, no,

00:31:53.320 it wasn't doctored at all.

00:31:54.460 And then he said,

00:31:54.820 oh, it's taken out of context.

00:31:56.100 Well, nope,

00:31:56.520 it wasn't taken

00:31:57.020 out of context either.

00:31:57.720 But he's not going

00:31:58.700 to suffer any real penalty

00:32:00.140 for saying that

00:32:01.580 as a kind of default response

00:32:03.020 when acted on criticism

00:32:04.420 because the type of people

00:32:05.640 who are attracted

00:32:06.240 to these candidates

00:32:07.700 are the type of people

00:32:09.100 who will say,

00:32:10.300 well, you know,

00:32:11.520 why is RFK important?

00:32:13.100 Why is Vivek

00:32:14.120 important right now?

00:32:14.980 Because they are calling

00:32:16.140 BS on the establishment

00:32:17.880 and truth tellers.

00:32:18.620 So in that context,

00:32:19.900 fighting with the media,

00:32:20.760 scrapping with the media

00:32:21.580 is seen as a gain.

00:32:22.980 And until Republican voters

00:32:25.260 in the primary

00:32:26.020 act differently,

00:32:28.300 they're going to respond

00:32:29.260 to incentives,

00:32:30.120 the politicians,

00:32:30.880 I mean,

00:32:31.340 in this fashion.

00:32:33.140 In the primary.

00:32:34.100 I mean, in general,

00:32:34.780 this is going to be much harder.

00:32:36.000 And Matt made a point

00:32:37.760 that is pretty interesting.

00:32:39.000 And I would urge

00:32:39.500 your viewers,

00:32:40.860 listeners to go seek this out.

00:32:42.120 I think it's on C-SPAN.

00:32:43.140 But, you know,

00:32:43.560 I've been to CPAC

00:32:44.380 many times over the years

00:32:45.760 and seen it get

00:32:46.920 increasingly weirder

00:32:48.160 and crazier.

00:32:48.980 But that applause line

00:32:50.440 of the media,

00:32:51.000 look,

00:32:51.200 The Fifth Column,

00:32:52.360 which is the greatest

00:32:53.220 podcast in Christendom.

00:32:54.680 And that's just a study

00:32:55.680 that showed that.

00:32:56.780 We're a media

00:32:57.320 criticism podcast.

00:32:58.640 And we talk about

00:32:59.620 how shitty the media is

00:33:00.840 literally every week,

00:33:02.280 twice a week,

00:33:02.860 if you pay and you should pay.

00:33:04.480 But twice a week,

00:33:05.360 we're saying how awful

00:33:06.220 these people are.

00:33:07.620 But this lazy crutch

00:33:09.460 of the media

00:33:10.200 every time you get in trouble.

00:33:11.640 I saw one person

00:33:13.240 say one thing at CPAC

00:33:15.220 about the media

00:33:16.380 that was positive

00:33:17.360 and he was booed.

00:33:18.780 He was lustily booed.

00:33:20.360 Who is that person?

00:33:21.720 Tucker Carlson.

00:33:22.740 Tucker Carlson,

00:33:23.420 when he was starting,

00:33:24.220 and people should go

00:33:25.060 look this up,

00:33:25.580 it's actually a really good speech.

00:33:26.860 He's starting The Daily Caller

00:33:28.440 and he says,

00:33:29.680 The New York Times,

00:33:30.920 chorus of booze,

00:33:32.000 booze,

00:33:32.440 you know,

00:33:32.640 horrible commies.

00:33:33.940 And he says,

00:33:34.360 no, no, no, no,

00:33:34.860 wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:33:36.160 They do some good work,

00:33:37.660 but they're not on our side.

00:33:38.740 We just have to emulate them.

00:33:40.140 But they're not bad people

00:33:41.440 and they don't do

00:33:42.240 all horrible stuff.

00:33:43.580 We just should be more like them

00:33:45.000 and just put our spin on it.

00:33:46.400 And that's why

00:33:46.880 I'm starting The Daily Caller.

00:33:48.080 And he had a very sober way

00:33:49.340 of doing that.

00:33:49.720 And I have to say that

00:33:50.260 I think Tucker's still doing that

00:33:51.460 by going to Twitter

00:33:52.220 and doing his show there.

00:33:53.740 And rather than kvetching

00:33:55.400 and, you know,

00:33:56.040 hand-wringing constantly

00:33:56.980 about the media,

00:33:58.040 is that, you know,

00:33:58.780 go out,

00:33:59.200 do your own thing,

00:33:59.920 number one.

00:34:00.760 Talk to, you know,

00:34:01.660 media who are going

00:34:02.680 to be sympathetic to you,

00:34:03.580 which would be,

00:34:04.280 in Vivek's case,

00:34:05.340 Megyn Kelly.

00:34:06.380 But don't expect people

00:34:07.340 like Megyn Kelly

00:34:08.040 or people like The Fifth Column,

00:34:09.080 where Vivek has been a guest too,

00:34:10.840 to just roll over and say,

00:34:12.380 well, yeah,

00:34:12.680 and obviously you're being

00:34:13.560 treated poorly

00:34:14.440 when you invoke 9-11

00:34:16.620 in your arguments

00:34:18.880 about God knows what

00:34:20.420 at this point,

00:34:20.980 about January 6th,

00:34:22.140 as Chuck Schrummer would do.

00:34:23.560 Don't expect us to roll over

00:34:25.000 and say, well, yeah, of course,

00:34:25.820 because the media,

00:34:26.280 no, we know the media sucks.

00:34:27.820 But don't use the fact

00:34:29.200 that the media sucks

00:34:30.060 as this crutch

00:34:31.320 and every time you get in trouble

00:34:32.820 and it's an applause line

00:34:34.200 and you roll your eyes

00:34:35.140 at Caitlin Collins,

00:34:36.200 who, by the way,

00:34:36.780 got her start

00:34:37.340 at The Daily Caller.

00:34:38.740 Yeah, that's right.

00:34:39.400 No, you look like a little baby.

00:34:41.100 You look like a little whiny baby.

00:34:42.880 The media made me do it.

00:34:44.360 No, they didn't.

00:34:45.020 You did it.

00:34:45.600 Grow up.

00:34:46.100 You want to be the president?

00:34:47.080 Act like a man.

00:34:48.280 Okay, let's take a quick break.

00:34:50.760 We'll come right back.

00:34:52.280 There's much, much more

00:34:53.180 to get into

00:34:53.860 with the hosts

00:34:54.840 of The Fifth Column

00:34:56.260 after this quick break.

00:35:01.300 Before we move off

00:35:02.460 of Vivek and RFK Jr.,

00:35:04.180 there are a couple

00:35:05.540 of similarities between them.

00:35:06.660 You know,

00:35:07.000 we were laughing

00:35:08.120 earlier this week

00:35:09.080 because Vivek posted that.

00:35:11.440 I'm like,

00:35:12.000 it looks like I'm kind of

00:35:12.920 rubbing the nipples,

00:35:13.760 but that's not what I'm doing.

00:35:14.860 What?

00:35:15.460 I'm trying to show.

00:35:16.480 I'm trying to show.

00:35:19.400 Doesn't it look that way?

00:35:20.500 Why do I keep doing

00:35:21.480 this with my hands?

00:35:22.080 Just, God,

00:35:23.280 is this on OnlyFans now?

00:35:24.900 What's happening?

00:35:25.940 I think it's on Sirius.

00:35:27.500 Jesus.

00:35:29.360 Shit, that's an idea.

00:35:30.920 I can't make a bunch

00:35:31.640 of dough that way.

00:35:32.820 Probably like two cents.

00:35:33.920 You probably could.

00:35:35.480 Yes.

00:35:35.940 Okay, so anyway,

00:35:37.400 my point is,

00:35:38.020 he posted a video

00:35:38.780 of him playing tennis

00:35:39.500 without his shirt on.

00:35:40.400 Okay, so he did that

00:35:41.280 and RFK Jr.

00:35:42.060 had posted a video

00:35:42.880 of him working out

00:35:44.340 without his shirt on.

00:35:45.840 And then,

00:35:46.880 yeah, here it is again.

00:35:49.080 And then Vivek,

00:35:49.740 yeah, so that happened.

00:35:52.520 Vivek earlier

00:35:53.260 had been seen,

00:35:54.300 I think it was in Iowa.

00:35:55.320 It was in Iowa.

00:35:56.420 Rapping,

00:35:57.140 Eminem,

00:35:57.960 Lose Yourself.

00:35:58.700 We'll play a little bit of that.

00:35:59.600 Here it is.

00:36:00.320 Please don't, man.

00:36:01.260 Please don't.

00:36:01.800 back to reality.

00:36:03.220 Oh,

00:36:03.480 it goes gravity.

00:36:04.580 Oh,

00:36:04.860 it goes gravity.

00:36:05.920 Oh,

00:36:06.120 it goes gravity.

00:36:07.460 That's such a...

00:36:08.380 I hear groans.

00:36:11.540 Why are you groaning

00:36:12.260 before I get to the next slide?

00:36:13.720 What's happening, gentlemen?

00:36:14.760 It's just such a terrible idea.

00:36:16.260 It's just a terrible idea.

00:36:19.260 I mean,

00:36:19.500 this...

00:36:19.660 Why?

00:36:19.860 Why?

00:36:20.400 Again,

00:36:20.800 I like Vivek,

00:36:22.460 but all of the energy

00:36:23.620 is like,

00:36:25.500 I was bullied.

00:36:26.720 Yeah, totally.

00:36:27.720 Yeah, exactly.

00:36:28.740 I'm a billionaire.

00:36:30.060 You're a billionaire nerd.

00:36:31.400 And I'm rapping on stage.

00:36:33.220 Yep.

00:36:33.980 Well,

00:36:34.500 I will say something.

00:36:35.380 That's not cool, man.

00:36:36.520 Just don't do that anymore.

00:36:37.740 Whoever's telling you to do that,

00:36:39.560 do not do it.

00:36:40.520 He's doing that

00:36:41.220 thinking about

00:36:41.960 getting stuffed in the locker.

00:36:43.440 He was pushed in the locker

00:36:44.700 and he was just rapping

00:36:45.700 him and him at the same time.

00:36:46.720 And look,

00:36:47.060 he's winning.

00:36:48.000 He's winning.

00:36:48.680 He is better than those people.

00:36:50.440 But he's giving something away

00:36:51.940 every time he raps in public.

00:36:54.300 Don't do it.

00:36:54.860 But I mean,

00:36:55.160 he gets him

00:36:55.620 media coverage,

00:36:57.380 gets his name out there,

00:36:59.560 gets us talking about him

00:37:00.580 in a way we're not doing right now

00:37:01.640 for, you know,

00:37:02.580 Mike Pence

00:37:03.740 or Asa Hutchinson,

00:37:05.200 which I don't think

00:37:05.840 we're going to be seeing.

00:37:06.600 He's, by the way,

00:37:07.740 a great rapper

00:37:08.580 and a terrible tennis player,

00:37:11.240 but a great rapper.

00:37:11.840 What goes on

00:37:12.400 on the field column?

00:37:13.780 Would you change your tune

00:37:16.140 if he started bravely

00:37:17.400 dropping end bumps?

00:37:18.580 Yes, you would.

00:37:19.500 You would.

00:37:19.860 You would defend him,

00:37:20.660 wouldn't you?

00:37:20.860 Well, I would defend him,

00:37:22.100 but that's because

00:37:23.640 I object to the double standard.

00:37:26.080 There's no double standard here.

00:37:27.560 You don't have to be black

00:37:28.560 in order to rap on stage.

00:37:29.980 You just have to be

00:37:30.580 really good at it

00:37:31.520 and actually have some swagger.

00:37:33.520 And he's got none.

00:37:34.280 He just doesn't have

00:37:35.060 the appropriate

00:37:35.660 kind of swagger

00:37:37.580 to be doing this.

00:37:38.740 I'm not a fan, Megan,

00:37:41.120 of the trend

00:37:43.060 towards shirtlessness

00:37:44.120 in the primaries.

00:37:45.480 I just think that,

00:37:46.300 you know,

00:37:47.480 like, look,

00:37:49.260 Vivek is surging.

00:37:50.240 Go do a search

00:37:51.200 for Huckabee surging

00:37:52.240 back in the day.

00:37:53.460 And these are,

00:37:54.320 I'm glad everyone

00:37:55.120 had their shirts on

00:37:55.840 back then because...

00:37:56.800 Yeah.

00:37:57.380 Remember,

00:37:58.460 it was a date night

00:37:59.480 and Mark Wahlberg,

00:38:00.900 he's never wearing his shirt

00:38:01.940 and his body's super taut

00:38:03.800 and Steve Carell,

00:38:05.420 I think it is,

00:38:05.880 is like,

00:38:06.540 who likes shirts?

00:38:07.640 Who likes shirts?

00:38:09.300 I had one of those moments

00:38:10.600 when I saw it.

00:38:11.540 Okay, so then there's this.

00:38:13.820 Vivek just posted

00:38:15.340 a new video

00:38:17.260 of him doing burpees

00:38:18.780 with his wife.

00:38:21.540 Oh.

00:38:21.900 Okay.

00:38:22.820 Oh, Lord.

00:38:23.480 A family that burps together

00:38:24.840 stays together.

00:38:26.620 Okay, so they're young

00:38:27.880 and they're vibrant, guys.

00:38:28.940 I think that's

00:38:29.420 the hidden message here.

00:38:30.260 They're young

00:38:30.620 and they're vibrant.

00:38:31.940 And he had earlier

00:38:33.440 posted a picture

00:38:34.140 or a video of him

00:38:35.060 playing the piano.

00:38:35.780 I mean, what,

00:38:36.240 is he telegraphing,

00:38:37.360 I'm young

00:38:37.780 and, you know,

00:38:39.120 I'm not an octogenarian

00:38:40.720 like, you know,

00:38:42.320 Biden and I'm not 77

00:38:43.700 like Trump

00:38:44.400 or is he just trying

00:38:45.760 to get like the young kids

00:38:46.800 talking about him?

00:38:47.420 Like, he's one of us.

00:38:48.100 He plays piano.

00:38:48.680 He does burpees.

00:38:49.380 He plays tennis.

00:38:50.580 He raps.

00:38:51.800 He raps.

00:38:53.560 He's one of us people

00:38:55.800 who got shoved

00:38:56.500 into the locker

00:38:57.100 over and over again.

00:38:58.800 I'm sorry,

00:38:59.180 but really,

00:39:00.400 Camilla's right.

00:39:01.180 It telegraphs bullying.

00:39:03.240 It's like,

00:39:03.680 now, by the way,

00:39:04.960 this will get him.

00:39:05.640 I'm going to play piano.

00:39:06.980 I don't know

00:39:08.020 what's doing.

00:39:09.100 But shout out

00:39:11.160 to the youth.

00:39:11.840 I mean,

00:39:12.100 he's right to do that.

00:39:13.580 For sure.

00:39:14.000 It's insane

00:39:14.760 that we have

00:39:16.020 these old

00:39:16.880 semi-crazy people.

00:39:18.680 And I know

00:39:18.980 there's everyone

00:39:19.600 listening here

00:39:20.300 voted for all of them,

00:39:21.680 but like,

00:39:22.260 still,

00:39:22.760 be honest with yourself.

00:39:24.380 Watch a video

00:39:25.020 for more than like

00:39:26.080 30 seconds

00:39:26.700 for many years.

00:39:28.780 They're incredibly old.

00:39:30.360 They're incredibly

00:39:30.860 not vigorous.

00:39:32.100 They say crazy things

00:39:33.360 all the time.

00:39:34.720 In the case of

00:39:35.620 the sitting president

00:39:36.480 of the United States,

00:39:37.300 which is not a small deal,

00:39:38.680 they cannot even

00:39:39.840 go to a tragedy

00:39:41.100 without making stuff up

00:39:42.940 about their own family

00:39:43.880 that didn't happen

00:39:44.680 as a BS way

00:39:45.600 of empathizing.

00:39:46.400 It's just like,

00:39:47.220 we need young people.

00:39:48.960 More burpees,

00:39:49.880 please.

00:39:51.180 I think it's fine

00:39:52.560 for him to do that,

00:39:53.960 although it's

00:39:55.240 terribly embarrassing.

00:39:56.700 Yeah,

00:39:56.980 so he's a millennial.

00:39:58.280 He's 38 years old.

00:39:59.820 It would be nice

00:40:00.420 to get somebody,

00:40:01.660 you know,

00:40:01.980 energetic,

00:40:02.780 young,

00:40:03.220 youthful.

00:40:03.960 DeSantis is only 44,

00:40:05.180 by the way,

00:40:05.620 as he said to me

00:40:06.200 in the interview

00:40:06.640 we had.

00:40:07.620 He said,

00:40:08.040 I'll get in there

00:40:09.900 and I'll be ready

00:40:10.320 to spit nails

00:40:11.060 on day one.

00:40:11.760 And you kind of

00:40:12.340 believe him.

00:40:12.900 You know,

00:40:13.020 he just seems like

00:40:13.940 maybe you don't want

00:40:15.780 to like go to the prom

00:40:16.760 with him necessarily,

00:40:17.860 but you believe

00:40:18.560 if you put him

00:40:19.100 in that office,

00:40:20.140 he'd be all business.

00:40:21.340 You know,

00:40:22.000 he wouldn't be doing

00:40:22.820 the burpees.

00:40:23.540 He would be legislating.

00:40:25.180 He would be the Democrats

00:40:26.020 worst nightmare.

00:40:27.040 You sit across from him

00:40:28.480 and you do believe that.

00:40:30.280 Yeah,

00:40:30.440 I mean,

00:40:30.700 you don't want

00:40:31.240 a prom king

00:40:32.940 in the White House.

00:40:34.340 Well,

00:40:34.400 I don't anyway.

00:40:35.360 But I just think,

00:40:35.980 I mean,

00:40:36.160 I think DeSantis is young.

00:40:37.260 He doesn't telegraph

00:40:38.120 as young,

00:40:38.840 whereas Vivek,

00:40:40.180 and I think it's before

00:40:41.100 even,

00:40:41.980 he's doing burpees

00:40:42.820 and playing tennis

00:40:43.720 and archery

00:40:44.560 and kickboxing

00:40:45.280 online.

00:40:45.900 And it's just,

00:40:46.680 he looks like

00:40:47.500 he's seven years old,

00:40:48.820 but he's also

00:40:49.620 really,

00:40:50.200 really smart.

00:40:50.700 We've been giving

00:40:51.320 Vivek a hard time.

00:40:53.240 He came on

00:40:53.900 The Fifth Column.

00:40:55.160 I disagree with him

00:40:55.920 on a lot of things,

00:40:57.140 a lot of Ukraine stuff,

00:40:58.700 foreign policy stuff,

00:40:59.540 but he's whip smart

00:41:01.200 in that he is surging.

00:41:03.100 Now,

00:41:03.340 these surges ultimately

00:41:04.320 don't mean very much.

00:41:06.040 We remember

00:41:06.420 Rick Santorum surging,

00:41:08.000 you know,

00:41:08.420 Herman Cain surging,

00:41:09.760 Howard Dean,

00:41:10.420 Mike Huckabee.

00:41:11.360 And so it probably

00:41:11.820 won't amount to much,

00:41:12.440 but it does say something

00:41:13.480 about what people,

00:41:15.160 when they're looking

00:41:15.680 for an alternative

00:41:16.320 or looking for.

00:41:17.620 And the one thing

00:41:18.120 they're not,

00:41:18.540 by the way,

00:41:18.920 which is the association

00:41:19.620 people love to make

00:41:20.840 with the party,

00:41:21.540 is that they're racists.

00:41:23.460 I mean,

00:41:23.720 the Herman Cain surging

00:41:24.660 didn't do anything

00:41:25.840 to disabuse people

00:41:27.200 of this notion too,

00:41:27.840 but Vivek is not white.

00:41:29.140 And we talk so endlessly,

00:41:31.040 desperately about race.

00:41:32.480 And if we insist on that,

00:41:33.460 it might be worth

00:41:34.000 pointing out

00:41:34.480 that he's not

00:41:35.020 just a white guy.

00:41:36.520 He's a young,

00:41:37.700 very successful

00:41:38.520 Indian American.

00:41:40.540 And,

00:41:41.040 you know,

00:41:41.320 there's something

00:41:41.740 that's appealing about him

00:41:42.900 regardless of the fact

00:41:44.200 that he believes,

00:41:45.420 you know,

00:41:47.200 9-11 was an inside job

00:41:48.660 or whatever he believes.

00:41:49.520 I'm not going to say

00:41:49.880 that he believes that,

00:41:50.840 but he is flirting

00:41:51.400 with that kind of nonsense.

00:41:52.480 By the way,

00:41:52.780 just to go back

00:41:53.400 to the video,

00:41:53.800 I have to say,

00:41:54.280 like,

00:41:54.420 if we're trying to hire

00:41:55.460 the one who's,

00:41:56.080 like,

00:41:56.160 most vibrant and energetic,

00:41:57.360 I think we should

00:41:57.840 maybe run the wife.

00:41:59.920 The wife looks amazing

00:42:00.760 in that video.

00:42:01.500 She looks so much better.

00:42:02.240 Holy cow.

00:42:03.380 She's getting higher.

00:42:04.420 Look at that.

00:42:05.200 Good God.

00:42:06.580 Higher vertical.

00:42:07.040 I have to do burpees

00:42:07.860 for this class I do online

00:42:09.720 and I just phone it in.

00:42:11.040 I can,

00:42:11.300 I barely,

00:42:11.920 like,

00:42:12.820 God,

00:42:13.380 I would never do that

00:42:14.040 jump at the end.

00:42:14.900 That's horrible.

00:42:16.200 What's the online burpees?

00:42:17.580 Is it a master's class

00:42:18.600 or something?

00:42:19.700 It's only fans.

00:42:21.020 It's a,

00:42:21.540 she wants to compete

00:42:22.580 with Chris Cuomo.

00:42:24.720 Get her workout out.

00:42:26.060 Right.

00:42:26.780 Keep your shirt on, man.

00:42:29.080 Now,

00:42:29.300 wait,

00:42:29.500 okay,

00:42:29.680 we have breaking news

00:42:30.560 on the debate,

00:42:31.580 which we're still

00:42:32.740 going to talk about.

00:42:34.560 Daily Beast reporting that,

00:42:35.860 because as you know,

00:42:36.620 Donald Trump will not be

00:42:37.320 at the debate tonight,

00:42:38.360 but they say,

00:42:38.980 I'm reading here,

00:42:40.200 Fox still plans for Trump

00:42:41.560 to have a heavy,

00:42:43.020 non-physical presence

00:42:44.540 at the event.

00:42:46.260 Multiple people

00:42:47.100 familiar with the situation

00:42:48.220 tell the Daily Beast

00:42:48.960 the network has committed

00:42:49.920 to a plan

00:42:50.960 to beam Trump in

00:42:53.020 by playing clips of him

00:42:55.280 throughout the debate

00:42:56.440 and then having

00:42:57.380 the candidates respond.

00:42:58.720 They will hold on

00:42:59.420 to those ratings

00:42:59.980 like Trump,

00:43:00.400 Trump,

00:43:00.540 Trump,

00:43:00.680 Trump,

00:43:00.760 Trump.

00:43:00.960 He's kind of here.

00:43:02.640 He said this about you.

00:43:04.000 How about you?

00:43:04.680 He said this about you.

00:43:06.320 It would also satisfy

00:43:07.300 Fox's desire

00:43:08.160 to effectively

00:43:08.760 counter-program

00:43:09.680 the Tucker Carlson

00:43:10.760 interview with Mr. Trump.

00:43:13.000 That was taped

00:43:13.880 at Trump's Bedminster,

00:43:15.520 New Jersey Golf Club

00:43:16.420 last week.

00:43:17.480 Their chat will run

00:43:18.220 for two hours.

00:43:19.020 It's going to air on X,

00:43:20.320 you know,

00:43:20.720 formerly known as Twitter,

00:43:22.080 which is the expected

00:43:23.380 length of Fox's debate.

00:43:25.040 So it's,

00:43:26.000 they're still going to try

00:43:26.700 to make it all about Trump.

00:43:29.660 The news media does it

00:43:30.500 for the ratings.

00:43:31.620 The Democrats do it

00:43:32.580 because they think

00:43:33.560 that they can beat Trump.

00:43:35.680 I don't know

00:43:36.580 whether it's the best thing

00:43:37.420 for the Republican Party,

00:43:38.460 but he is the frontrunner.

00:43:39.580 So what do you make of it?

00:43:41.400 Like the Tupac hologram

00:43:42.860 at Coachella.

00:43:43.960 That's what it sounds like to me.

00:43:46.020 It may be a good idea

00:43:47.260 and certainly boost

00:43:48.300 the ratings a little bit.

00:43:50.620 It's weird.

00:43:51.880 There's a sense in which

00:43:52.760 for Donald Trump,

00:43:53.600 as he's doing the Tucker appearance,

00:43:55.220 the best thing for him to do

00:43:56.620 is probably not even mention

00:43:57.800 the fact that there is

00:43:58.560 this debate going on.

00:43:59.620 You just ignore

00:44:00.560 the gaggle of losers

00:44:01.800 from his perspective

00:44:02.700 who are having

00:44:04.180 these conversations

00:44:04.980 about him someplace else.

00:44:06.780 He doesn't even need

00:44:07.380 to be there.

00:44:07.900 It doesn't matter.

00:44:08.480 He's not even going

00:44:08.920 to talk about them.

00:44:09.600 And on the other hand,

00:44:10.780 like all of the incentive

00:44:12.000 is to constantly talk

00:44:13.740 about Trump.

00:44:14.960 I mean,

00:44:15.160 this is,

00:44:15.700 it's a kind of,

00:44:16.960 but for all of the other

00:44:17.980 surrounding context,

00:44:19.320 it's kind of a masterful play

00:44:20.960 in some regards.

00:44:21.980 I personally,

00:44:23.340 as a voter,

00:44:23.800 would much prefer

00:44:24.400 to see him there

00:44:25.320 at the stage.

00:44:26.080 I also think it'd probably

00:44:26.660 be a little bit more

00:44:27.240 entertaining

00:44:27.680 if you were there.

00:44:29.240 But it's,

00:44:30.680 it's kind of bizarre

00:44:31.860 to watch all of this play out.

00:44:33.880 It's very strange

00:44:34.820 because I know

00:44:35.400 that the consensus

00:44:37.280 on this,

00:44:37.980 and the consensus

00:44:38.340 is probably right,

00:44:39.400 that it makes no sense

00:44:40.320 for Donald Trump

00:44:41.060 to show up.

00:44:41.960 I mean,

00:44:42.160 he's,

00:44:42.680 you know,

00:44:43.100 these other people,

00:44:44.040 I mean,

00:44:44.420 you get somebody

00:44:45.340 at 13% maybe.

00:44:47.540 And like,

00:44:48.380 why even bother going,

00:44:49.960 okay,

00:44:50.120 I get that.

00:44:51.080 But I think he

00:44:52.360 is making the wrong decision.

00:44:53.960 And I,

00:44:54.920 for a couple of reasons,

00:44:55.540 just as a viewer,

00:44:56.540 number one,

00:44:56.980 because you do like

00:44:57.700 to see him on stage,

00:44:58.560 because he's very,

00:45:00.120 very,

00:45:00.620 very good at it.

00:45:01.960 And he has,

00:45:04.100 what,

00:45:04.300 four plus,

00:45:05.180 five plus years

00:45:05.920 of practice

00:45:06.500 that,

00:45:07.280 you know,

00:45:07.540 when he was in front

00:45:08.700 of the press,

00:45:09.460 when he was doing debates

00:45:10.600 with other Republican candidates,

00:45:11.940 when he was doing debates

00:45:12.880 against Joe Biden,

00:45:13.780 he's very good at it.

00:45:14.780 But if,

00:45:15.280 if anybody

00:45:16.140 needs a laugh

00:45:17.560 tonight,

00:45:18.840 instead of watching

00:45:19.340 this grim debate,

00:45:20.540 watch Shane Gillis,

00:45:22.020 the comedian

00:45:22.480 who was canceled

00:45:23.240 from SNL

00:45:24.000 before he started,

00:45:24.960 his special,

00:45:25.620 which is one of the

00:45:26.200 funniest specials

00:45:26.860 I've seen

00:45:27.240 in probably five years,

00:45:28.720 he has an incredible bit

00:45:30.200 about watching,

00:45:31.320 like his father

00:45:32.380 hated Donald Trump

00:45:33.960 and said,

00:45:34.220 this guy's a clown,

00:45:35.220 and then watching the debate

00:45:36.260 and he was like,

00:45:37.080 and as Shane Gillis said,

00:45:38.440 they just kept on

00:45:39.540 throwing these nerds

00:45:40.520 up against him

00:45:41.260 and he was just

00:45:42.120 destroying them.

00:45:43.280 And it's an amazingly

00:45:44.200 smart way

00:45:45.000 of looking at it

00:45:45.640 because,

00:45:46.460 does Donald Trump

00:45:47.480 need it?

00:45:48.020 No,

00:45:48.500 but it's not going

00:45:49.480 to hurt him.

00:45:50.300 It never hurt him

00:45:50.880 in the past

00:45:51.500 and I,

00:45:52.160 as a voter,

00:45:52.540 would love to see him

00:45:53.520 interface with people

00:45:55.040 who are going

00:45:55.880 to try to now

00:45:56.760 attack DeSantis

00:45:58.340 as the Trump surrogate

00:45:59.900 and,

00:46:00.700 you know,

00:46:01.020 all go after him.

00:46:02.000 I'd like to see them

00:46:02.600 all go after Trump

00:46:03.300 because during the campaign

00:46:04.400 so far,

00:46:05.800 they've all been

00:46:06.260 kind of MAGA surrogates

00:46:07.600 in their own way.

00:46:08.680 They're not running

00:46:09.420 against Donald Trump,

00:46:11.100 as Larry Elder said

00:46:12.700 the other day

00:46:13.160 on The Breakfast Club,

00:46:13.740 I'm not running

00:46:14.100 against Donald Trump,

00:46:14.920 I'm running against Joe Biden.

00:46:16.340 So it'd be actually

00:46:16.800 more interesting

00:46:17.480 to see people

00:46:18.140 who aren't,

00:46:18.820 quote unquote,

00:46:19.100 running against Donald Trump

00:46:20.180 and who have said

00:46:20.960 very generous things

00:46:21.900 about him,

00:46:22.340 get up against him

00:46:23.520 on the debate stage.

00:46:24.220 That would be actually

00:46:24.820 really interesting.

00:46:26.420 It's so fraught for them

00:46:27.780 because you look

00:46:28.560 at all the polls

00:46:29.140 and the Republican Party

00:46:30.020 still loves Trump.

00:46:31.380 They love Trump.

00:46:32.380 You know,

00:46:32.700 69% of them,

00:46:33.920 according to that poll

00:46:35.180 two weeks ago,

00:46:35.960 are ready to vote for Trump.

00:46:37.320 So it's very hard

00:46:38.200 to get Trump out of the way

00:46:39.820 by saying he sucks.

00:46:41.520 He's terrible.

00:46:42.280 You don't want Trump.

00:46:42.920 It's like,

00:46:43.520 then you're terrible.

00:46:45.100 They have a much

00:46:45.620 greater affinity for him

00:46:46.920 and longer relationship

00:46:48.020 with him

00:46:48.580 than they do

00:46:49.420 with most of these guys

00:46:50.380 who want that job.

00:46:51.540 So that's just part

00:46:53.080 of the problem

00:46:53.460 that they're all trying

00:46:54.060 to figure out a way around

00:46:55.000 and no one has managed

00:46:55.740 to do it thus far.

00:46:56.560 We'll see whether tonight

00:46:57.380 something breaks through.

00:46:59.560 All right.

00:46:59.960 Up next,

00:47:00.320 we're going to talk

00:47:00.700 about the stakes

00:47:01.200 for each of the individuals

00:47:02.600 going on that stage tonight.

00:47:04.040 I've got some thoughts

00:47:04.640 and I think the guys do too.

00:47:06.480 Stand by.

00:47:07.220 We're also going to talk

00:47:07.840 about Megan Rapinoe

00:47:08.780 speaking out

00:47:09.500 and this insanity

00:47:10.720 that happened,

00:47:11.560 insanity

00:47:12.120 at this California library

00:47:15.080 where a young female athlete

00:47:16.940 dared to speak out

00:47:18.700 about men

00:47:19.580 playing in women's sports.

00:47:20.980 It was insane.

00:47:21.980 I'll show you the tape.

00:47:23.120 Don't forget, folks,

00:47:23.840 you can find

00:47:24.200 The Megyn Kelly Show

00:47:24.940 live on Sirius XM Triumph

00:47:26.860 Channel 111

00:47:27.740 every weekday

00:47:28.880 at noon east.

00:47:29.660 The full video show

00:47:30.840 and clips

00:47:31.240 at youtube.com

00:47:33.080 slash Megyn Kelly.

00:47:34.520 You can see my

00:47:35.260 soft core OnlyFans

00:47:37.100 if you go there

00:47:37.860 today after the show.

00:47:39.940 Audio podcast available

00:47:41.220 wherever you get

00:47:41.900 your podcasts

00:47:42.560 for free.

00:47:47.240 Tonight,

00:47:48.080 it doesn't,

00:47:48.520 you know,

00:47:48.620 Trump's not going to be there

00:47:49.360 and we're now getting

00:47:50.420 more color

00:47:51.140 on exactly

00:47:52.300 how the decision

00:47:53.040 went down

00:47:53.700 per the Daily Beast.

00:47:54.940 I read you some stuff,

00:47:56.340 but this is what

00:47:57.520 they're reporting.

00:47:58.600 According to people

00:47:59.260 familiar with the interview

00:48:00.120 with Tucker,

00:48:03.420 they say there's not

00:48:04.240 going to be a bunch

00:48:04.720 of tough questions

00:48:05.540 but,

00:48:06.200 or contentious moments,

00:48:07.280 but this is the Daily Beast,

00:48:09.420 a left-wing publication,

00:48:10.440 two ideologically aligned men

00:48:11.840 looking to exact revenge

00:48:12.920 on Fox

00:48:13.460 and its debate.

00:48:14.460 Well,

00:48:14.700 that'll work.

00:48:15.860 And then they go on

00:48:16.720 to say Trump's mind

00:48:18.760 was made up

00:48:19.520 to skip the debate

00:48:20.620 after he had dinner

00:48:21.480 with Suzanne Scott

00:48:22.200 and Jay Wallace,

00:48:23.380 the two top executives

00:48:24.280 of the channel

00:48:24.880 who went to try

00:48:25.460 to woo him

00:48:25.960 at Bedminster.

00:48:27.240 Following that visit,

00:48:28.140 the ex-president decided

00:48:29.140 he did not need

00:48:30.200 the conservative cable giant.

00:48:31.940 They go on to say,

00:48:32.760 according to one

00:48:33.160 well-placed Fox News insider,

00:48:34.460 the network had been

00:48:35.000 working overtime

00:48:36.080 recently to make sure

00:48:37.820 the prevailing story

00:48:38.600 around this debate

00:48:39.200 is not that the network

00:48:40.000 failed to get Trump,

00:48:41.240 even though that appears

00:48:41.980 to be the dominating

00:48:42.780 narrative surrounding the event.

00:48:44.160 Quote,

00:48:44.320 they're panicked

00:48:44.940 and they tried everything

00:48:46.240 they could to get him

00:48:47.120 to attend,

00:48:47.640 but obviously it did not work.

00:48:49.480 Their assumption is

00:48:50.080 the ratings will be fine,

00:48:51.140 but nowhere near

00:48:51.840 where they would have been

00:48:53.120 if Trump was there.

00:48:54.500 I think that's true.

00:48:55.900 Yes,

00:48:56.240 I agree.

00:48:56.880 They will not be as high

00:48:57.860 as they would have been

00:48:58.380 had Trump appeared.

00:49:00.180 And I don't know,

00:49:01.140 I think it's an appropriate

00:49:01.940 middle finger by Trump,

00:49:03.480 not to mention Tucker,

00:49:04.900 to Fox News.

00:49:05.720 But it is an opportunity

00:49:07.320 for the guys

00:49:08.840 who remain on the stage,

00:49:10.480 right?

00:49:10.660 They're definitely going

00:49:11.340 to get more airtime now.

00:49:12.380 If poor Doug Burgum

00:49:13.680 doesn't make it,

00:49:14.740 now that's more airtime.

00:49:16.000 Though look,

00:49:17.060 I can speak to this

00:49:18.100 as a debate moderator.

00:49:20.080 You do not feel the need

00:49:21.680 to give everybody

00:49:22.340 perfectly equal time.

00:49:23.740 That's never a promise

00:49:24.540 that we've made anybody.

00:49:26.060 While you want to be fair,

00:49:27.040 the guys who are

00:49:27.500 pulling down at 1%,

00:49:28.920 they're not going to get

00:49:29.720 anywhere near the airtime

00:49:30.760 that DeSantis,

00:49:32.080 now Vivek,

00:49:32.820 will get.

00:49:34.520 And so,

00:49:35.280 I don't know,

00:49:35.540 who's got the most

00:49:36.520 to gain

00:49:38.760 at tonight's debate?

00:49:40.140 Let's start with that.

00:49:41.160 Let's go around.

00:49:41.960 Camille,

00:49:42.180 what do you think?

00:49:43.600 I'd say it's probably Ron.

00:49:45.380 I mean,

00:49:45.560 being in that second position,

00:49:47.300 having floundered recently,

00:49:49.100 if he were able

00:49:50.100 to have

00:49:50.700 a demonstrably

00:49:52.160 strong performance

00:49:53.120 and clearly

00:49:54.160 set himself up

00:49:55.200 as the

00:49:56.520 alternative

00:49:57.580 to Trump,

00:49:58.820 this could be

00:49:59.640 enormous for him.

00:50:00.720 If he stumbles

00:50:01.580 and if he looks

00:50:02.880 particularly bad,

00:50:04.740 I think he gives

00:50:05.560 a little bit more

00:50:06.200 ammunition to pretty much

00:50:07.380 everyone else

00:50:08.140 in the field.

00:50:09.700 So,

00:50:10.420 it would be great

00:50:11.100 for him to have

00:50:11.720 a good performance,

00:50:12.680 I'm sure,

00:50:13.000 from his own team's

00:50:13.880 perspective.

00:50:14.840 Like,

00:50:15.100 anyone else,

00:50:16.000 if DeSantis does okay

00:50:18.120 and anyone else

00:50:19.320 seems to really shine,

00:50:20.420 I mean,

00:50:20.580 that might be good

00:50:21.140 for them for a little while,

00:50:22.120 but it doesn't seem

00:50:22.640 to me that they have

00:50:23.320 nearly as much to gain

00:50:24.540 or as much to lose

00:50:25.460 in the short run.

00:50:26.180 Let me show you

00:50:27.700 some DeSantis.

00:50:28.360 We pulled some

00:50:29.060 from his 2018 race

00:50:30.480 against Andrew Gillum

00:50:31.660 for Florida governor

00:50:32.880 and there was a question,

00:50:34.600 Gillum was accusing him

00:50:35.480 of being a racist

00:50:36.620 essentially because he

00:50:37.440 showed up at an event

00:50:38.200 sponsored by somebody

00:50:39.360 who was very controversial

00:50:40.420 and this is how

00:50:42.260 DeSantis handled it,

00:50:44.280 SOT 14.

00:50:45.960 How the hell am I

00:50:47.120 supposed to know

00:50:47.800 every single statement

00:50:49.000 somebody makes?

00:50:49.900 Here's the deal.

00:50:51.020 Let me just say this.

00:50:52.180 I've lived my life,

00:50:53.260 whether it's athletics,

00:50:54.160 whether it's military,

00:50:55.360 whether it's serving

00:50:56.260 as a prosecutor.

00:50:57.400 You know,

00:50:57.540 when I was downrange

00:50:58.480 in Iraq,

00:50:59.060 we worked together

00:51:00.060 as a team regardless

00:51:01.100 of race.

00:51:01.800 When I was a prosecutor,

00:51:03.360 I stood up for victims

00:51:04.980 of every race,

00:51:06.000 color and creed.

00:51:06.640 That's the only way

00:51:07.580 to do it in our country.

00:51:09.040 It's something I believe in

00:51:10.140 and as governor,

00:51:10.900 I will represent

00:51:11.640 all the people.

00:51:12.640 Everyone will get

00:51:13.220 a fair shake,

00:51:13.740 but I am not going

00:51:14.440 to bow down

00:51:15.140 to the altar

00:51:15.880 of political correctness.

00:51:17.300 I'm going to not

00:51:17.780 let the media smear me

00:51:19.160 like they like to do

00:51:20.220 with so many other people.

00:51:21.440 And I'm certainly not

00:51:22.340 going to take anything

00:51:23.120 from Andrew Gillum.

00:51:24.460 He's got neo-Nazis

00:51:25.380 helping him out

00:51:26.100 in this state.

00:51:27.160 He has spoken

00:51:28.080 at racist conferences.

00:51:29.580 Now, I'm not calling

00:51:30.300 Mr. DeSantis a racist.

00:51:31.780 I'm simply saying

00:51:32.560 the racists believe

00:51:33.380 he's a racist.

00:51:35.160 What's Mr. DeSantis?

00:51:36.840 The conference I attended

00:51:38.420 was keynoted

00:51:39.720 by a Medal of Honor recipient

00:51:41.420 named Clint Romaché.

00:51:42.920 It was not a racial conference.

00:51:45.000 That is an absolute lie.

00:51:47.220 And I'm not going to sit here

00:51:48.400 and take this nonsense

00:51:50.160 from a guy like Andrew Gillum

00:51:53.120 Oh, pretty good.

00:51:56.380 Yeah.

00:51:57.080 Every reason he should be doing

00:51:58.620 that and every reason

00:51:59.800 he should do well tonight.

00:52:01.540 He should swear again.

00:52:03.320 I like the swearing.

00:52:05.040 Yeah, Gillum.

00:52:05.860 It's authentic.

00:52:06.960 Yeah.

00:52:07.300 Yeah, he might have.

00:52:08.260 I mean, Gillum did a great job

00:52:09.920 after losing that race.

00:52:11.800 I don't know if anyone remembers

00:52:13.080 what Andrew Gillum did.

00:52:14.360 But he likes passing out

00:52:15.340 in hotel rooms and things.

00:52:16.260 But, no, I have been

00:52:18.480 an outlier in this.

00:52:20.100 And, you know,

00:52:20.920 having seen DeSantis

00:52:22.840 on the stump

00:52:23.580 during his last campaign

00:52:25.720 in Florida

00:52:27.200 that everyone thought

00:52:28.740 I was crazy

00:52:29.240 that I said,

00:52:29.640 I think he's actually

00:52:30.020 quite good on the stump

00:52:31.020 because, you know,

00:52:32.780 the comparison that people make

00:52:34.320 is to Donald Trump.

00:52:35.740 And it's an unfair comparison

00:52:36.800 because Donald Trump

00:52:38.000 is unique

00:52:38.840 in that there's nobody like him.

00:52:40.860 And that's what people

00:52:41.920 liked about him.

00:52:42.580 I think that may be

00:52:43.340 what people are sort of

00:52:44.360 tired of in some ways, too.

00:52:46.360 But, you know,

00:52:47.200 DeSantis isn't bad at this.

00:52:48.560 This is completely ridiculous

00:52:50.400 if people think

00:52:51.100 that he's bad at this stuff.

00:52:52.660 He's very, very smart.

00:52:54.080 It doesn't.

00:52:54.600 And again,

00:52:55.520 I have people emailing me

00:52:56.580 when I say this all the time

00:52:57.760 and saying,

00:52:58.120 oh, you're a big...

00:52:58.940 No, I have a lot of things

00:53:00.580 that I really disagree with him on.

00:53:02.120 But it's just a statement of fact.

00:53:03.780 The guy is a working class guy

00:53:05.620 who went to Harvard and Yale

00:53:07.280 and then served in the military

00:53:08.840 and has the pedigree

00:53:10.180 that one used to have

00:53:11.460 to get to the presidency.

00:53:13.260 And he's no dummy.

00:53:14.360 And people should not

00:53:15.600 underestimate him

00:53:16.520 because when he's up there tonight,

00:53:19.040 he has, of course,

00:53:20.140 the most to lose.

00:53:21.200 And he's going to come out swinging.

00:53:23.220 That debate prep strategy thing

00:53:25.620 that leaked wasn't wrong, by the way.

00:53:27.900 There was nothing crazy in it.

00:53:29.300 It was pretty much

00:53:30.820 how I would handle that debate.

00:53:32.280 And I suspect that he'll do

00:53:34.240 pretty much the same

00:53:35.480 of what was outlined

00:53:37.840 in that document,

00:53:38.500 which is mostly common sense,

00:53:40.100 of, you know,

00:53:40.620 making sure that you're

00:53:41.460 on the attack a lot of the time.

00:53:43.420 I think you're going to see

00:53:44.280 somebody who's reasonably

00:53:45.500 impressive as a debater.

00:53:47.660 I'm not saying as a candidate,

00:53:48.480 but as a debater,

00:53:49.320 I think he's quite good.

00:53:50.860 Now, Canadian Debbie,

00:53:51.840 our producer,

00:53:52.660 she's very thorough, guys.

00:53:53.780 And she did look through

00:53:55.360 most of that debate

00:53:56.320 and found some potential

00:53:58.360 areas of weakness

00:53:59.120 for Ron DeSantis.

00:54:00.160 And you will not be surprised,

00:54:01.720 I think, to hear

00:54:02.300 it was in some of his

00:54:03.720 facial expressions,

00:54:05.040 reaction shots,

00:54:06.140 you know,

00:54:06.440 what's happening

00:54:07.220 when other people are talking.

00:54:08.440 In that case,

00:54:09.100 Andrew Gillum.

00:54:09.620 We did pull some of that.

00:54:12.020 Here it is.

00:54:12.800 It's, watch,

00:54:13.840 it's a video.

00:54:16.040 So he's looking at him.

00:54:17.800 He's shaking the head no.

00:54:19.740 There's kind of like a smirk.

00:54:22.500 I don't know, Deb.

00:54:25.880 This isn't so bad.

00:54:27.100 Does it get worse than this?

00:54:28.180 Oh, she says it gets worse.

00:54:29.240 All right, stand by.

00:54:30.060 From Bill O'Reilly.

00:54:31.840 Just, well, okay.

00:54:33.580 Head tilt.

00:54:34.060 Don't like that.

00:54:35.100 Here's the next one.

00:54:36.660 I mean, honestly.

00:54:37.220 Got a weird little smile on.

00:54:38.620 He's got like a weird

00:54:39.320 little fake smile.

00:54:40.040 It's like somebody told him.

00:54:41.180 Smile.

00:54:41.700 Don't forget to smile.

00:54:43.860 Oh, that's a,

00:54:44.600 yeah, that's a weird one.

00:54:45.920 But Camille's right.

00:54:46.580 The tailoring is the most offensive.

00:54:48.380 Yeah, I think he could

00:54:49.120 do a better job.

00:54:50.100 Yeah, he looks like

00:54:50.800 David Byrne and Tuckman

00:54:51.900 stopped making sense.

00:54:52.900 I don't think that was so bad.

00:54:53.760 I think, Debbie,

00:54:54.640 that was unfair impeachment.

00:54:55.920 I think that was fine.

00:54:56.860 But he does have to worry about,

00:54:58.320 you know,

00:54:58.880 he's got some facial

00:54:59.700 and some head movements.

00:55:01.000 That was quite mean

00:55:01.780 for a Canadian.

00:55:03.440 Well, she used to be American,

00:55:04.820 but then she married

00:55:05.440 a damn Canadian

00:55:06.160 and went up there.

00:55:06.940 Oh, traitor.

00:55:08.520 Wow.

00:55:09.120 Okay, Benedict Arnold producer.

00:55:11.440 I know.

00:55:12.620 Fine.

00:55:13.060 So annoying.

00:55:14.160 In any event.

00:55:14.640 I think no matter

00:55:15.880 what happens in this debate,

00:55:17.920 here's my prediction,

00:55:19.000 is that one,

00:55:20.140 Chris Christie will be

00:55:21.080 declared the winner

00:55:21.860 by the media.

00:55:22.840 Of course.

00:55:23.160 Two, the media will be wrong

00:55:24.700 and he won't see much

00:55:27.220 bump one way or the other

00:55:28.960 in the polls.

00:55:29.720 But more importantly,

00:55:30.440 that whole category,

00:55:31.680 the way from the middle,

00:55:32.560 the middle is where

00:55:33.160 all the action is

00:55:34.040 between DeSantis and Vivek.

00:55:36.420 I think those are

00:55:37.200 the only other two people

00:55:38.660 right now

00:55:39.160 who have a realistic shot

00:55:40.300 at the nomination at all.

00:55:42.500 And Vivek's is not that realistic

00:55:43.820 because it just depends

00:55:44.880 on Donald Trump,

00:55:46.120 you know,

00:55:46.580 keeling over in prison

00:55:47.800 or something like that.

00:55:48.580 I don't think he could

00:55:49.060 beat Trump himself.

00:55:50.980 But that group, right?

00:55:53.400 So Pence,

00:55:55.160 Nikki Haley,

00:55:56.220 Tim Scott,

00:55:57.060 Chris Christie,

00:55:57.940 you can add Will Hurd

00:55:59.380 in there.

00:55:59.720 He won't be there tonight.

00:56:01.180 Asa Hutchinson,

00:56:01.840 the normal Republicans

00:56:03.320 look at them as a group

00:56:05.160 and see how they have

00:56:06.160 polled over the duration

00:56:08.700 of this primary campaign.

00:56:09.820 Right now,

00:56:10.400 as of August,

00:56:11.120 that group together,

00:56:12.220 regardless of who's high

00:56:13.100 and who's low,

00:56:14.000 15 percent.

00:56:15.560 Last month,

00:56:16.720 15 percent.

00:56:17.900 The month before,

00:56:18.680 16 percent.

00:56:19.440 And that was their high

00:56:20.920 watermark.

00:56:21.800 This is very similar

00:56:22.600 in its own way

00:56:23.500 to what we saw

00:56:24.420 in 2015 and 16

00:56:25.580 with the Marco Rubio,

00:56:28.660 Jeb Bush,

00:56:29.780 John Kasich,

00:56:30.920 and also Chris Christie wing.

00:56:32.420 That group never

00:56:33.120 polled higher together

00:56:34.760 than 25 percent.

00:56:36.600 Republican voters

00:56:37.440 are not going to vote

00:56:38.620 for those people.

00:56:39.300 I don't see any way

00:56:40.260 out of that.

00:56:41.100 DeSantis has the most

00:56:42.500 to gain from this

00:56:43.260 because he's lost the most.

00:56:44.420 He's lost half of his support.

00:56:45.580 He was polling at 29 percent.

00:56:46.600 He's now like 14 and a half

00:56:48.460 over time.

00:56:49.440 But he's the only person

00:56:51.120 besides Vivek

00:56:51.920 who has shown

00:56:52.900 that Trump voters

00:56:54.240 will vote for him.

00:56:55.540 The Trump voters

00:56:56.280 are not voting

00:56:57.080 for Chris Christie.

00:56:57.880 This is just

00:56:58.460 this is not going to happen.

00:57:00.200 They're probably

00:57:01.000 not going to vote

00:57:01.600 for Mike Pence.

00:57:02.240 There will be a couple people,

00:57:03.560 a few Trump voters

00:57:04.380 who might be disgusted

00:57:05.820 by the by the conduct

00:57:07.700 after January 6th

00:57:09.660 or whatever that is described

00:57:11.100 in the indictments

00:57:11.780 and whatever,

00:57:12.400 who finally peeled away

00:57:13.600 from him,

00:57:13.940 but not too many.

00:57:15.080 The biggest group,

00:57:16.020 three quarters

00:57:16.640 of the Republican electorate

00:57:17.860 have like every single month,

00:57:19.920 no matter what,

00:57:20.580 the group of Trump,

00:57:22.780 DeSantis and Vivek.

00:57:24.380 75 percent every single month,

00:57:25.880 no matter what,

00:57:26.420 no matter who's high or low.

00:57:27.400 So it is right there.

00:57:29.100 Can DeSantis

00:57:30.100 differentiate himself

00:57:31.740 in a way that arrests

00:57:32.780 the slide

00:57:33.600 that shows the kind of

00:57:36.000 I want dead enders

00:57:37.540 is too mean

00:57:38.420 for the people

00:57:39.500 who are supporting Mike?

00:57:41.500 No, I'm kind of with them

00:57:43.660 in many ways

00:57:44.140 because I don't want

00:57:44.880 Trump to win either.

00:57:46.380 But those people

00:57:47.260 aren't going to win.

00:57:47.880 So will their voters

00:57:48.980 take a fresh look

00:57:50.280 at DeSantis and say,

00:57:51.240 OK, well,

00:57:51.680 he's the best shot

00:57:52.520 that we have.

00:57:53.400 And will DeSantis

00:57:54.840 be able to stem

00:57:56.320 some of the Vex

00:57:57.160 upward trajectory,

00:57:59.000 which has been

00:57:59.540 really impressive?

00:58:01.140 And can he get

00:58:01.900 some Trump voters

00:58:02.700 his way?

00:58:03.340 That's a lot of ifs.

00:58:04.480 I wouldn't bet on it.

00:58:06.040 But this is,

00:58:06.860 I think,

00:58:07.080 where the only action

00:58:08.180 in this debate

00:58:08.820 is going to be

00:58:09.400 in the center of the stage.

00:58:10.860 He's going to get attacked

00:58:11.580 for sure.

00:58:12.000 DeSantis,

00:58:12.360 especially without Trump there,

00:58:13.620 DeSantis will be

00:58:14.360 the biggest target.

00:58:15.800 There was a report

00:58:16.420 in ABC News today

00:58:17.740 pointing out how Vivek

00:58:18.980 allegedly said

00:58:20.160 to a group of people

00:58:21.280 a couple of times,

00:58:22.240 if I run,

00:58:23.520 it'll be to take out

00:58:24.760 Ron DeSantis.

00:58:25.300 Like I can,

00:58:25.840 I can take him out.

00:58:26.540 I can be a spoiler

00:58:27.160 for DeSantis.

00:58:29.720 And then Chris Christie

00:58:31.400 has also been

00:58:32.180 attacking DeSantis.

00:58:33.120 I predict tonight

00:58:33.940 we're probably going

00:58:34.500 to hear something

00:58:34.960 on Chris Christie's

00:58:36.720 upset over Ron DeSantis'

00:58:38.260 answers on January 6th.

00:58:40.200 He doesn't like

00:58:41.260 how Ron DeSantis

00:58:42.360 has been handling that.

00:58:43.700 You know,

00:58:43.880 DeSantis,

00:58:44.520 he needs to come up

00:58:45.280 with a better answer

00:58:45.880 because one of his answers

00:58:46.620 was like,

00:58:47.240 I wasn't there.

00:58:48.780 And I mean,

00:58:49.080 Chris Christie had a good,

00:58:49.980 like,

00:58:50.240 what do you mean?

00:58:50.840 You weren't there

00:58:51.640 so you can't comment on it?

00:58:52.720 Like,

00:58:52.840 what are you saying?

00:58:53.880 Did you not have a television?

00:58:55.040 Did you not?

00:58:55.400 The entire American electorate

00:58:57.060 has been shown clips of it

00:58:58.040 at least by this point.

00:58:59.480 But just as a reminder,

00:59:00.620 we went back

00:59:01.180 as Chris Christie's

00:59:01.760 now sort of famous

00:59:02.360 for taking out Marco Rubio

00:59:03.660 back in the last election cycle,

00:59:05.680 two cycles ago,

00:59:06.600 16.

00:59:06.900 And he does have

00:59:09.700 a very good ability,

00:59:11.680 Chris Christie does,

00:59:12.740 of seeing your weakness

00:59:16.700 as a candidate

00:59:17.780 and identifying it clearly

00:59:20.620 for the voters.

00:59:21.600 And in that case,

00:59:23.220 Marco Rubio walked right into it.

00:59:25.600 So like,

00:59:26.260 he's very good

00:59:27.220 with sort of the laser vision.

00:59:28.460 Like,

00:59:28.900 I see what you're doing.

00:59:30.520 I've seen you do it many times.

00:59:32.260 I'm going to call you out

00:59:33.340 on the exact thing

00:59:34.480 and I'm going to say it

00:59:35.120 in the perfect way.

00:59:36.560 And then if you're not

00:59:37.520 a good candidate,

00:59:38.180 you're going to prove him right.

00:59:39.260 That's what happened to Rubio.

00:59:40.300 Could happen again tonight.

00:59:41.180 Here's a little

00:59:41.640 walk down memory lane

00:59:43.020 in SOT 12.

00:59:45.380 This country already

00:59:46.280 has a debt problem.

00:59:47.560 We don't need to add to it

00:59:48.520 by electing someone

00:59:49.340 who has experience

00:59:50.100 at running up

00:59:50.840 and destroying

00:59:51.840 the credit rating of his state.

00:59:53.300 But I would add this.

00:59:54.400 Let's dispel with this fiction

00:59:55.620 that Barack Obama

00:59:56.480 doesn't know what he's doing.

00:59:57.740 He knows exactly

00:59:58.580 what he's doing.

00:59:59.740 He is trying to change

01:00:00.800 this country.

01:00:01.820 You see, everybody,

01:00:02.620 I want the people at home

01:00:03.440 to think about this.

01:00:04.580 That's what Washington, D.C. does.

01:00:06.620 The drive-by shot

01:00:07.620 at the beginning

01:00:08.180 with incorrect

01:00:08.960 and incomplete information

01:00:10.180 and then the memorized

01:00:11.780 25-second speech

01:00:13.360 that is exactly what

01:00:14.900 he's doing.

01:00:15.360 That's true.

01:00:19.180 Chris, your state

01:00:20.000 got hit by a massive snowstorm

01:00:21.440 two weeks ago.

01:00:22.100 You didn't even want to go back.

01:00:23.260 They had to shame you

01:00:23.980 into going back.

01:00:25.180 And then you stayed there

01:00:25.860 for 36 hours

01:00:26.840 and then he left

01:00:28.160 and came back to campaign.

01:00:29.860 Those are the facts.

01:00:30.680 Here's the bottom line.

01:00:31.600 This notion that Barack Obama

01:00:32.940 doesn't know what he's doing

01:00:33.880 is just not true.

01:00:34.620 There it is.

01:00:35.040 He knows exactly what he's doing.

01:00:36.220 There it is.

01:00:36.240 The memorized

01:00:36.640 25-second speech.

01:00:38.040 Oh, that's the best

01:00:38.960 speech.

01:00:40.900 It's really good.

01:00:42.260 He's good at it.

01:00:42.880 That was devastating.

01:00:44.580 Devastating.

01:00:45.580 Yeah.

01:00:46.100 Yeah.

01:00:46.560 That's absolutely true.

01:00:47.400 I mean, you need a guy

01:00:48.460 like Christie on stage

01:00:50.020 because the dynamics of,

01:00:51.500 you know,

01:00:52.240 we're going to kind of be

01:00:53.240 in kind of MAGA universe.

01:00:55.680 Christie isn't.

01:00:56.900 He's good at this.

01:00:58.000 It doesn't matter

01:00:58.520 what you think about him.

01:00:59.440 Again, this is just only on style

01:01:01.100 and he's a bright guy

01:01:02.540 and he's quick on his feet.

01:01:04.340 So without having Trump there,

01:01:06.140 the closest you're going to get

01:01:07.520 to a Trump-like person

01:01:08.920 just for entertainment value

01:01:10.220 is going to be Chris Christie.

01:01:11.640 But Matt's absolutely right

01:01:12.460 that they're going to declare

01:01:14.000 him the winner.

01:01:15.640 You know,

01:01:15.960 this is a media

01:01:16.940 that has absolutely

01:01:17.440 loathed Chris Christie

01:01:18.760 from Bridgegate on

01:01:20.560 and just said,

01:01:21.140 oh, he's such a phony.

01:01:22.080 But they're going to

01:01:22.760 revise that tonight for sure.

01:01:24.360 They'll love him tonight.

01:01:25.180 So what does Vivek do?

01:01:27.020 Because he's probably

01:01:27.540 going to take some incoming

01:01:28.400 now that his numbers

01:01:29.160 are going up, right?

01:01:30.180 His he's he's a comer

01:01:31.740 and DeSantis,

01:01:32.940 I think, went down.

01:01:33.560 What, five points was it

01:01:34.580 in the latest poll

01:01:35.320 and Vivek went up?

01:01:37.160 That's not good for DeSantis.

01:01:38.960 And so, you know,

01:01:39.740 we're talking about DeSantis

01:01:40.480 taking all the barbs.

01:01:41.440 He's probably going to have

01:01:42.420 to throw some

01:01:43.220 other people's way as well.

01:01:45.640 And we haven't even mentioned

01:01:46.720 Nikki Haley

01:01:47.640 or Tim Scott

01:01:48.740 or Mike Pence.

01:01:50.980 I like that.

01:01:52.900 Those with all due respect,

01:01:54.320 like those,

01:01:55.440 they're not going to get

01:01:56.300 a lot of airtime.

01:01:57.140 And I'm sure the moderators

01:01:57.960 right now are going to be like,

01:01:58.880 you got to throw at least

01:01:59.960 one to Asa Hutchinson.

01:02:02.240 Right.

01:02:02.600 But like,

01:02:03.180 you don't really want to

01:02:04.460 you got to do those guys

01:02:06.800 or the way you get airtime

01:02:08.360 if you're one of those guys

01:02:09.220 is start a fight

01:02:10.400 with somebody else on stage.

01:02:11.780 Have a back and forth

01:02:12.660 where they have to have you

01:02:13.800 go, you know,

01:02:14.820 boom, boom, boom.

01:02:15.460 So what do you make

01:02:16.620 of the also rants?

01:02:18.740 I mean, they've got

01:02:19.500 a much longer road

01:02:20.700 and for them,

01:02:22.300 it's a great performance

01:02:23.820 tonight, you hope,

01:02:24.820 and a great performance

01:02:25.680 in sort of the next

01:02:26.740 one of these rounds.

01:02:28.140 But it's just going to take

01:02:29.720 a tremendous amount

01:02:30.580 for them to make progress.

01:02:31.620 It doesn't seem

01:02:32.200 outside of the realm

01:02:33.340 of possibility

01:02:34.020 for Nikki Haley

01:02:36.560 or Tim Scott

01:02:38.560 to be able to gain

01:02:39.760 some momentum

01:02:40.500 going forward.

01:02:42.360 They at least

01:02:43.480 don't have the same

01:02:44.140 kind of obstacle

01:02:45.000 that Chris Christie does

01:02:46.380 where I just think

01:02:47.260 appealing to the base

01:02:48.360 for Christie

01:02:49.180 is just going to be

01:02:50.140 enormously difficult,

01:02:51.300 if not completely impossible.

01:02:53.600 And this is a primary.

01:02:55.700 So that's going to be

01:02:56.740 very, very important

01:02:57.840 going forward.

01:02:59.260 But I just think

01:03:00.700 all of them

01:03:01.260 have a very,

01:03:01.840 very slim chance

01:03:02.800 at this point.

01:03:03.920 You know,

01:03:04.200 if you can use humor,

01:03:05.540 that's also something

01:03:06.380 I said,

01:03:06.760 Trump's very good at that.

01:03:07.720 He did that

01:03:08.060 on almost every debate.

01:03:09.900 Sometimes it was shocking.

01:03:11.500 The best line ever

01:03:12.480 was to Jeb Bush,

01:03:14.140 more energy.

01:03:14.980 I like that.

01:03:15.900 Right?

01:03:16.360 Remember?

01:03:17.680 That was the end

01:03:18.360 of Jeb's campaign.

01:03:19.720 That was it.

01:03:20.320 And it reminds me

01:03:21.280 of the Ronald Reagan

01:03:21.980 exchange.

01:03:22.860 This is,

01:03:23.200 I love debate,

01:03:24.200 big moments

01:03:24.720 going back to history.

01:03:25.980 1984,

01:03:27.120 Roger Ailes

01:03:28.080 claimed,

01:03:29.020 at least,

01:03:29.400 to have given him

01:03:30.180 this line.

01:03:31.240 I think it's been verified

01:03:32.260 in other forums,

01:03:33.680 but they knew

01:03:35.160 that Ronald Reagan

01:03:36.580 was old

01:03:37.140 and that this was going

01:03:38.480 to be a potential

01:03:39.000 problem for him

01:03:39.800 and that,

01:03:40.200 you know,

01:03:40.460 it's going to get raised

01:03:41.460 by Walter Mondale.

01:03:43.660 So here is the exchange

01:03:45.500 that has now

01:03:46.100 just become super famous

01:03:47.440 at 13.

01:03:49.480 I will not make age

01:03:51.540 an issue of this campaign.

01:03:53.140 I am not going

01:03:53.860 to exploit

01:03:54.500 for political purposes

01:03:56.780 my opponent's

01:03:58.540 youth and inexperience.

01:04:04.580 He wins

01:04:05.420 when his Mondale laughs.

01:04:07.300 Mondale laughs

01:04:08.060 really hard at it

01:04:09.080 for a long time.

01:04:10.120 He's like,

01:04:10.420 you just got me,

01:04:11.440 which is amazing.

01:04:13.000 It was a great moment.

01:04:14.140 I mean,

01:04:14.220 that used to pass

01:04:15.040 for like kind of cutting,

01:04:16.680 but also humorous.

01:04:17.680 I mean,

01:04:17.860 God,

01:04:18.060 if they could only see

01:04:18.740 where we've gone.

01:04:21.180 But is anyone

01:04:22.040 who's going up there

01:04:22.800 tonight funny?

01:04:24.980 Hmm.

01:04:25.640 You're kidding.

01:04:26.500 Very funny.

01:04:27.720 Christine.

01:04:28.400 It's the closest.

01:04:29.880 Yeah.

01:04:30.220 But I mean,

01:04:31.200 the hilarious

01:04:32.020 Nikki Haley

01:04:32.760 or the Friars Club

01:04:35.800 mentality of Tim Scott.

01:04:37.520 I mean,

01:04:37.760 Mike Pence.

01:04:39.760 Mike Pence.

01:04:40.780 Good Lord.

01:04:41.500 If you just clean it up.

01:04:42.520 He's like Eddie Murphy,

01:04:43.360 just the material

01:04:44.420 all the time.

01:04:45.480 The thing about it

01:04:47.020 is that

01:04:47.460 Tim Scott is the guy

01:04:48.760 that I think

01:04:49.100 might be the sleeper

01:04:49.900 just because he's

01:04:50.420 such a nice guy.

01:04:51.720 You can't dislike

01:04:52.680 Tim Scott.

01:04:53.680 And if everybody's

01:04:54.360 bitching at each other,

01:04:55.140 you always have

01:04:55.860 that little narrow lane

01:04:57.340 in a debate

01:04:57.880 if there's so many people

01:04:58.660 on the stage,

01:04:59.220 you know,

01:04:59.740 jawing at each other

01:05:00.460 to be the nice guy

01:05:01.260 who comes in

01:05:01.740 and is like,

01:05:02.040 you know what?

01:05:02.420 Look,

01:05:03.040 the youth and inexperience

01:05:03.980 thing is like,

01:05:04.500 he's like,

01:05:04.860 I'm the kind of normal

01:05:05.940 sane guy here

01:05:07.000 and all these people

01:05:07.800 are kind of nuts.

01:05:09.780 But as far as,

01:05:10.680 you have to have humor.

01:05:12.140 The best thing

01:05:13.520 that Donald Trump

01:05:14.140 ever did,

01:05:15.020 and again,

01:05:15.360 I recommend the Shane Gillis

01:05:16.460 stand-up,

01:05:16.840 it's absolutely brilliant,

01:05:18.320 but the best thing

01:05:19.120 he ever did

01:05:19.620 was the physical act

01:05:21.980 of walking behind Hillary

01:05:23.940 and then very subtly

01:05:25.860 moving the microphone

01:05:26.660 to his mouth

01:05:27.720 and saying,

01:05:28.140 you'd be in jail,

01:05:29.320 is literally the greatest

01:05:30.580 thing I've ever seen

01:05:31.640 in a debate.

01:05:32.600 I mean,

01:05:32.840 it was,

01:05:33.960 when I watched that,

01:05:35.040 it was like I was

01:05:35.800 at the Apollo.

01:05:36.720 I was like rolling

01:05:37.540 in the aisles,

01:05:38.400 slapping and like,

01:05:39.200 you know,

01:05:39.420 hugging my friends.

01:05:40.520 I don't know why

01:05:41.220 it was just so funny

01:05:42.400 and delivered

01:05:43.360 with such perfection

01:05:44.540 because the man

01:05:45.480 has so much TV experience.

01:05:47.480 I mean,

01:05:47.740 reality TV is obviously

01:05:48.920 not real.

01:05:49.620 It is very,

01:05:50.900 very tightly scripted

01:05:51.940 in so many ways

01:05:52.600 and Donald Trump

01:05:53.460 knows how to drop

01:05:54.480 those barbed lines

01:05:55.400 and nobody on that stage,

01:05:57.560 I mean,

01:05:58.180 Asa Hutchinson,

01:05:59.540 maybe he's really funny,

01:06:01.780 we just didn't know it,

01:06:02.500 or Doug Burgum,

01:06:03.360 we don't know anything

01:06:03.980 about him.

01:06:04.880 He could be the funniest

01:06:05.500 guy on earth.

01:06:06.480 He's apparently

01:06:07.240 broken some body part.

01:06:08.580 We don't know what it is.

01:06:09.540 He's going to show up

01:06:09.580 an eye patch.

01:06:11.580 He's going to come out

01:06:12.320 in a wheelchair

01:06:12.920 to Eye of the Tiger

01:06:13.860 and then people will be like,

01:06:14.780 that guy's fucking great.

01:06:15.840 He's going to will us read it

01:06:17.100 and then like,

01:06:18.920 do the,

01:06:19.380 do the Willy Wonka

01:06:21.260 somersaults and.

01:06:23.240 Oh,

01:06:23.460 that would be amazing.

01:06:24.660 Right?

01:06:25.020 That would be pretty good,

01:06:25.900 actually.

01:06:26.400 Oh yeah,

01:06:26.760 I like the way you're going.

01:06:27.920 Okay.

01:06:28.380 He wouldn't be able

01:06:29.020 to get up off the ground.

01:06:30.500 Here's the reality.

01:06:32.000 They've got tonight,

01:06:32.880 we don't know whether

01:06:33.380 Trump surrogates

01:06:34.040 are going to be there

01:06:34.620 or not there.

01:06:35.540 They've technically

01:06:36.160 been banned,

01:06:36.920 I guess,

01:06:37.760 by the RNC

01:06:38.860 from Spin Alley,

01:06:40.720 you know,

01:06:40.960 where all the media

01:06:41.700 are interviewing

01:06:42.620 the candidates

01:06:43.560 and their surrogates

01:06:44.420 after the debate.

01:06:45.560 That makes sense

01:06:46.180 to me,

01:06:46.500 frankly,

01:06:46.860 because if you're not

01:06:47.380 going to show up

01:06:47.740 at the debate,

01:06:48.280 why should your surrogates

01:06:49.240 be allowed to dominate

01:06:50.020 the post-debate discussion?

01:06:52.180 Fox News under fire

01:06:53.440 for not allowing

01:06:55.360 those people are saying,

01:06:56.340 well,

01:06:56.460 they can come

01:06:57.080 if like they're on Hannity,

01:06:58.360 you know,

01:06:58.500 like they're going to be

01:06:59.020 a guest on the show.

01:06:59.760 I don't know

01:07:00.040 how it's going to work,

01:07:00.620 but there is a question

01:07:02.140 about how much

01:07:03.000 Donald Trump will get

01:07:03.960 purchase on any

01:07:05.060 of the post-debate shows.

01:07:07.240 However,

01:07:09.080 Wednesday's only 24 hours

01:07:10.560 and then Thursday comes

01:07:11.780 and Trump tomorrow

01:07:13.600 is going to be

01:07:14.420 turning himself in

01:07:15.380 in the Atlanta criminal case

01:07:17.820 that's been brought

01:07:18.380 against him.

01:07:19.480 You guys,

01:07:20.240 it's brilliant,

01:07:21.120 frankly.

01:07:21.560 I mean,

01:07:21.720 talk about like

01:07:22.400 making lemonade

01:07:23.040 out of lemons,

01:07:23.680 right?

01:07:23.860 Because it's going

01:07:24.280 to take all the air

01:07:25.240 out of the discussion

01:07:26.640 about these other

01:07:27.220 Republican candidates,

01:07:28.220 which the Democrats

01:07:29.140 who run the media

01:07:30.300 don't want to do anyway.

01:07:31.820 They don't want to talk about,

01:07:32.640 oh,

01:07:32.720 what a great moment

01:07:33.220 for this guy.

01:07:34.140 What a great moment

01:07:34.640 for that guy.

01:07:35.400 They'd much rather

01:07:36.100 turn back to Trump.

01:07:37.020 So he bow tied it.

01:07:38.440 He gift wrapped it

01:07:39.700 and he's going to go

01:07:40.640 turn himself in tomorrow

01:07:41.420 and you know what

01:07:42.360 everybody's going

01:07:42.760 to be talking about

01:07:43.300 and it's not going to be,

01:07:44.420 oh my God,

01:07:44.900 Asa Hutchinson slayed.

01:07:47.140 Yeah.

01:07:48.120 Also remember that

01:07:49.120 tonight during the debate.

01:07:50.920 That's what he should have done.

01:07:52.020 Give a fiery speech

01:07:53.020 right.

01:07:53.580 Oh,

01:07:53.880 yeah.

01:07:54.460 Hold up your hands.

01:07:56.440 Handcuff me.

01:07:57.040 Take me away.

01:07:58.020 Yeah.

01:07:59.100 Let's remember

01:07:59.880 the zero coverage

01:08:00.920 of the debate.

01:08:01.840 We should have done

01:08:02.280 like a slow moving

01:08:02.920 white Bronco tonight.

01:08:03.960 Can you imagine?

01:08:04.700 Oh my God.

01:08:06.560 Ultimate counter progress.

01:08:08.240 Megan,

01:08:08.460 this is a better idea

01:08:09.940 than your OnlyFans.

01:08:11.180 Who is the Al Cowlings,

01:08:12.700 the AC Cowlings

01:08:13.940 of this slow chase?

01:08:15.620 Mark Meadows

01:08:16.540 who's in second gear.

01:08:18.500 No, no, no.

01:08:18.540 I can only be one.

01:08:19.480 The first lady.

01:08:20.360 Our first lady

01:08:21.440 is driving the Bentley.

01:08:23.000 The white Bentley.

01:08:24.440 Oh man.

01:08:25.380 Hot Melania

01:08:26.060 driving the Bentley.

01:08:27.420 But Megan,

01:08:27.900 you do understand

01:08:28.520 that we're in an insane

01:08:29.480 political culture

01:08:30.320 where you're like,

01:08:30.940 what great fortune

01:08:32.000 it is that after this debate,

01:08:33.620 Donald Trump

01:08:34.040 is going to be arrested.

01:08:36.120 That'll take all the attention

01:08:37.580 away from the people

01:08:38.700 who won or lost the debate.

01:08:40.000 It's brilliant.

01:08:40.900 And on camera,

01:08:42.360 let's not forget,

01:08:43.080 Fulton County has cameras

01:08:45.280 and we're going to see visuals

01:08:47.240 and all that

01:08:49.360 in a way that we didn't before.

01:08:50.680 So it's going to be on

01:08:51.540 just loop

01:08:52.360 on every single television station.

01:08:55.560 It's going to be amazing.

01:08:57.580 The ratings will be bad tonight,

01:08:59.600 I would predict.

01:09:00.540 I don't think people

01:09:01.080 are banging down the doors

01:09:03.580 to watch Asa Hutchinson debate.

01:09:05.820 It's just kind of a hunch

01:09:07.240 and everyone's going to be

01:09:08.720 talking about the indictment.

01:09:09.600 And it's this weird country

01:09:12.360 that we live in right now.

01:09:14.620 And one of the reasons

01:09:15.740 why we joke about it

01:09:17.040 is just to hide the pain, Megan.

01:09:20.140 It's just pretty bizarre.

01:09:21.560 We've got a whole bunch

01:09:22.620 of indictments.

01:09:23.180 We've got the Ricos

01:09:23.940 coming against the guy

01:09:25.860 who's the obvious front runner

01:09:27.180 and will probably win

01:09:28.520 the Republican nomination

01:09:30.340 despite not really campaigning.

01:09:33.180 How often is he going to go

01:09:34.280 to Iowa and New Hampshire?

01:09:35.300 Who cares?

01:09:36.240 He's going to be like fighting

01:09:37.300 four different trials at once.

01:09:39.100 It is, it's kind of nuts.

01:09:40.900 So the best that we can do

01:09:42.700 probably is do our

01:09:44.960 responsible journalism,

01:09:46.040 of course, as Megan did

01:09:47.660 at the top of the show,

01:09:48.480 but also to laugh about it

01:09:50.940 and not let politics consume

01:09:52.700 us individually as human citizens

01:09:55.000 to the extent that it has kind of

01:09:57.080 warped a lot of people's heads.

01:09:58.780 All right.

01:09:59.360 I am looking in my notes

01:10:00.480 as you're speaking for,

01:10:02.680 I can't find it,

01:10:03.540 but there's a report out

01:10:05.000 about how Trump

01:10:06.400 is not going to be there tonight,

01:10:08.240 but he is passing out

01:10:10.640 bingo cards

01:10:11.800 to those who will be there.

01:10:14.180 Is that in my update,

01:10:15.040 you guys, or is that it?

01:10:15.840 Well, I can't remember.

01:10:16.840 Is this in the AM update?

01:10:17.960 Hold on, because it's worth finding.

01:10:19.620 Oh, yeah, here it is.

01:10:20.240 Okay, this is via political.

01:10:22.040 I don't know.

01:10:22.380 So he's been whining and dining.

01:10:23.800 Team Trump has been whining and dining

01:10:25.440 with a number of top reporters,

01:10:27.040 and they're passing out

01:10:28.540 things like pudding snack packs

01:10:30.720 as well as debate bingo cards

01:10:33.960 to troll Governor DeSantis.

01:10:35.780 The squares include,

01:10:38.180 like you have to drink or whatever,

01:10:39.680 when he, quote,

01:10:40.400 dismisses the polls.

01:10:41.960 This is not a nice one.

01:10:43.000 This next one, I warn you.

01:10:44.420 Wipes snot.

01:10:46.100 Okay, that's, I don't get that.

01:10:47.480 Is that a thing for him?

01:10:48.360 Whatever.

01:10:48.900 Red ears.

01:10:50.880 DeSantis.

01:10:52.200 DeSantis.

01:10:53.280 Flip flops on Social Security.

01:10:55.440 Woke.

01:10:56.360 And bonus points

01:10:57.440 for any mention of pudding.

01:10:59.500 Isn't that nice?

01:11:02.540 He's ribbing him

01:11:03.400 for mentioning woke.

01:11:04.280 I know, but you know,

01:11:06.940 Trump has readopted that term.

01:11:08.560 I've heard Trump mention that

01:11:09.500 a couple of times.

01:11:10.260 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:10.560 So I don't know.

01:11:11.060 I expect hypocrisy.

01:11:12.280 Yeah.

01:11:12.540 Well, he went after DeSantis

01:11:13.840 for being obsessed with Disney,

01:11:15.780 which was interesting.

01:11:17.500 And also, you know,

01:11:18.600 incredible that a Republican

01:11:19.820 on the bingo card

01:11:21.420 is saying, you know,

01:11:22.700 attack him

01:11:23.520 or give him a,

01:11:24.480 you know,

01:11:24.680 a negative checkoff

01:11:25.640 if he says Social Security

01:11:27.980 is going to bankrupt itself,

01:11:29.360 which kind of used to be

01:11:30.340 a Republican line all the time.

01:11:31.680 But Trump has actually

01:11:32.640 reimagined that as like,

01:11:33.940 oh, he's going to attack.

01:11:34.640 He's going to take away

01:11:35.180 your Social Security,

01:11:36.320 which is kind of

01:11:37.500 a progressive way

01:11:38.900 of looking at Social Security.

01:11:40.460 So, I mean,

01:11:40.800 that's kind of interesting too.

01:11:41.960 But on top of all of it,

01:11:43.720 it is Andy Kaufman.

01:11:44.980 It is performance art

01:11:46.120 and he is the master of it.

01:11:47.860 And everybody,

01:11:48.820 you don't show up,

01:11:49.680 but he's still showing up.

01:11:50.980 He's always going to be there.

01:11:52.060 He's going to haunt it

01:11:52.980 in about 500 different ways

01:11:54.320 and handing out these like,

01:11:55.480 you know,

01:11:56.080 Oscar gift bags

01:11:57.640 of like pudding pops

01:11:58.660 and stuff

01:11:59.080 is absolutely brilliant.

01:12:00.420 Sorry.

01:12:00.520 Let's also remember that

01:12:01.840 that yesterday

01:12:02.580 and over the last 24 hours,

01:12:05.180 he has come up

01:12:05.980 with two pretty huge

01:12:07.780 and from my point of view,

01:12:10.360 not everyone will agree with me,

01:12:12.040 clinically insane

01:12:13.080 policy proposals,

01:12:14.380 which is across the board,

01:12:16.300 10% tariff on everything

01:12:17.700 because we all need things

01:12:18.920 to be 10% more expensive.

01:12:20.880 And then also

01:12:21.900 a naval blockade

01:12:24.280 of Latin America.

01:12:25.780 Yeah, that was an interesting one too.

01:12:27.560 He really called for that yesterday

01:12:28.760 and like almost no one's talking about it.

01:12:30.260 It's like,

01:12:30.380 ah, whatever.

01:12:30.980 It's the former president

01:12:31.980 and the GOP presidential front runner

01:12:34.680 who, by the way,

01:12:35.120 is facing four different

01:12:36.080 criminal trials

01:12:37.460 calling for the naval blockade

01:12:39.480 of Latin America

01:12:40.240 and a 10% tear.

01:12:41.160 Yeah, okay.

01:12:43.540 He's just,

01:12:44.240 it's just too much.

01:12:45.300 And I presume

01:12:46.700 that some of those

01:12:47.280 will be talked about

01:12:49.020 at the debate

01:12:50.260 and there will be

01:12:51.120 a competitive attempt

01:12:52.000 by everyone on stage

01:12:52.940 to sound like

01:12:53.500 that they're going to be

01:12:54.080 just as tough

01:12:54.720 on foreign stuff.

01:12:57.020 I was just going to say

01:12:57.700 to outdo him.

01:12:58.760 Yeah, that's right.

01:12:59.620 Yeah, of course.

01:13:00.720 Even, you know,

01:13:01.480 getting ready

01:13:01.840 for the DeSantis interview,

01:13:02.960 I was looking closely

01:13:03.660 at the immigration policies

01:13:04.840 he was,

01:13:05.720 he's proposing

01:13:06.420 and, you know,

01:13:07.000 one of them is

01:13:07.700 using our military

01:13:09.300 to interfere

01:13:11.140 with Chinese shipments

01:13:13.000 to the Mexican drug cartels,

01:13:14.940 which I know

01:13:15.740 may sound great

01:13:16.500 to people who

01:13:17.300 don't like

01:13:18.100 what's happening

01:13:18.480 at the southern border.

01:13:19.360 You know,

01:13:19.680 I don't like

01:13:20.280 what's happening

01:13:20.560 at the southern border,

01:13:21.240 but there are,

01:13:22.340 you know,

01:13:22.680 such things as like

01:13:23.740 boundaries of countries.

01:13:25.240 And if you start

01:13:25.780 sending our military

01:13:26.540 down there to stop,

01:13:27.460 the Chinese

01:13:28.860 from hitting the ports

01:13:29.860 down in Mexico,

01:13:31.860 probably going to have a war.

01:13:33.080 I mean,

01:13:33.380 they're not going to take

01:13:34.780 that lying down,

01:13:36.260 either the Mexicans

01:13:36.960 or the Chinese.

01:13:38.100 And so,

01:13:38.820 you know,

01:13:38.980 I know people are like,

01:13:39.600 well, good,

01:13:40.060 it's about time

01:13:40.740 they've declared war on us.

01:13:41.840 But like,

01:13:42.520 no,

01:13:42.620 this could turn into

01:13:43.180 an actual war

01:13:44.140 where your kids

01:13:45.100 have to fight,

01:13:45.960 which is what

01:13:46.320 aren't even bigger

01:13:47.000 trade war too.

01:13:47.740 They don't want,

01:13:48.920 what would you say?

01:13:50.260 An even bigger

01:13:50.960 trade war too,

01:13:52.180 which was

01:13:53.140 an enormous

01:13:54.680 policy failure

01:13:55.420 of Trump's

01:13:57.140 first administration.

01:13:58.180 I mean,

01:13:58.300 I was up

01:13:58.920 at the Foxconn

01:14:00.520 factories

01:14:01.240 that were going

01:14:02.160 to bring production.

01:14:03.720 Remember Trump

01:14:04.540 with his golden shovel

01:14:05.520 there?

01:14:06.000 Those are all empty now.

01:14:07.420 Nothing's happened

01:14:08.000 in any of those places.

01:14:09.580 You know,

01:14:09.980 the trade war on China,

01:14:11.140 the tariffs were,

01:14:12.000 I think,

01:14:12.640 insane.

01:14:13.060 And the idea

01:14:14.040 of a 10%

01:14:15.260 across the board

01:14:16.040 tariff of everything

01:14:16.920 coming into the country

01:14:17.980 might sound good

01:14:19.200 to people

01:14:19.720 in the classic way

01:14:21.260 that mercantilist policies

01:14:22.320 sound good to people.

01:14:23.100 Then we'll just

01:14:23.460 buy stuff

01:14:24.300 that's made at home.

01:14:25.220 But people don't think

01:14:26.000 about the components

01:14:26.960 of so many things

01:14:27.760 that are made at home

01:14:28.820 are from abroad.

01:14:30.640 So for instance,

01:14:31.280 I was at a nail factory

01:14:32.600 in Missouri

01:14:34.360 who they were

01:14:35.180 cheering

01:14:35.900 Donald Trump's

01:14:37.520 trade policies

01:14:38.200 until

01:14:38.760 they realized

01:14:40.620 that it was going

01:14:41.100 to cost them

01:14:41.540 an enormous amount

01:14:42.220 of money

01:14:42.540 to bring

01:14:43.120 the raw materials

01:14:43.880 that they used

01:14:44.520 to make the nails

01:14:45.340 into the country

01:14:46.100 to then make them

01:14:46.840 in Missouri.

01:14:48.260 And this has been

01:14:48.720 just a really bad idea.

01:14:50.460 Every economist,

01:14:51.340 I mean,

01:14:51.540 this is left,

01:14:52.080 right,

01:14:52.200 and center,

01:14:52.660 disagrees

01:14:53.200 with these kinds

01:14:54.260 of things

01:14:54.540 of hiring,

01:14:55.180 hire,

01:14:55.480 hire trade barriers.

01:14:57.160 And to the point

01:14:57.620 about the Chinese stuff,

01:14:59.920 Megan,

01:15:00.640 you're absolutely right

01:15:01.200 because so many things

01:15:02.180 sound good on paper

01:15:03.780 but the point of politics

01:15:05.020 is to look

01:15:05.620 at previous examples

01:15:06.900 of policies

01:15:07.960 and say,

01:15:08.820 hey,

01:15:08.960 that sounds good

01:15:09.500 but it's not going

01:15:09.880 to work for X,

01:15:10.580 Y,

01:15:10.740 and Z,

01:15:10.960 these exogenous factors.

01:15:12.000 One of the things

01:15:13.080 that I would say

01:15:13.580 about this

01:15:13.980 is that Matt

01:15:14.440 pointed out

01:15:14.860 all these crazy policies.

01:15:16.360 I couldn't hate

01:15:18.180 these cartels

01:15:19.000 any more than

01:15:20.300 anyone else out there,

01:15:21.480 particularly when you see

01:15:22.220 that they're the ones

01:15:23.160 that are supplying

01:15:24.040 all the fentanyl

01:15:25.020 and stuff

01:15:25.340 that is ruining

01:15:25.820 downtown San Francisco.

01:15:27.020 It's basically

01:15:27.320 a cartel operation.

01:15:28.580 A lot of good

01:15:29.120 reporting about that.

01:15:30.380 But he also declared

01:15:31.460 that we're going to

01:15:31.920 declare them

01:15:32.600 enemy combatants.

01:15:34.220 Was I wrong

01:15:35.220 in reading that?

01:15:35.800 Because that was

01:15:36.380 what we did

01:15:37.200 after 9-11,

01:15:39.660 Guantanamo,

01:15:40.280 enemy combatants

01:15:41.660 for people in Mexico

01:15:44.540 who are drug dealers.

01:15:45.760 It sounds like

01:15:46.820 a great muscular way

01:15:48.440 but it has

01:15:49.260 so many bad repercussions

01:15:50.840 because I want

01:15:51.780 that stuff,

01:15:52.220 I want that border

01:15:53.340 to not be as poor

01:15:54.220 as it is.

01:15:55.600 But instead of

01:15:57.480 making these

01:15:58.280 incredibly strong

01:15:59.660 statements,

01:16:00.540 what are the practical

01:16:01.380 things that one's

01:16:02.080 going to do

01:16:02.320 to actually stop

01:16:02.960 these things

01:16:03.460 because bringing

01:16:05.080 jobs back to America

01:16:06.260 is not going

01:16:07.180 to happen

01:16:07.560 by making

01:16:08.140 everything in America

01:16:09.380 10% more expensive.

01:16:10.760 Everything.

01:16:10.900 Well, I mean,

01:16:11.340 people are already

01:16:11.980 dealing with inflation

01:16:13.160 still baked in

01:16:14.940 even though the

01:16:15.360 Biden administration

01:16:16.060 is celebrating

01:16:16.680 the reduction

01:16:17.340 from 12%

01:16:18.840 now down

01:16:19.480 to 4%.

01:16:20.740 But still,

01:16:21.260 that's 4% higher

01:16:22.040 than you were paying

01:16:22.660 and you've already

01:16:23.280 had two years

01:16:24.660 of pain.

01:16:25.720 So I don't know

01:16:26.100 that they want

01:16:26.540 more pain

01:16:27.140 in the goods

01:16:28.140 that they buy

01:16:28.640 across the board.

01:16:29.460 Standby.

01:16:29.840 I've got to

01:16:30.040 squeeze in a quick break.

01:16:31.240 More with the

01:16:31.700 fifth column.

01:16:32.260 Coming Up.

01:16:33.120 Don't go away.

01:16:36.380 Well,

01:16:37.060 breaking news

01:16:38.080 as we sit here

01:16:39.180 live in the air

01:16:40.020 at 1.33

01:16:40.680 and that is

01:16:42.000 Yevgeny Pregosian,

01:16:43.740 the head of the

01:16:44.340 Wagner Group

01:16:44.960 who had rebelled

01:16:46.280 against Vladimir Putin

01:16:47.440 and there were reports

01:16:49.360 that it was an attempted

01:16:50.220 coup

01:16:50.640 and he seemed

01:16:51.640 to be brought

01:16:52.240 to heel

01:16:53.840 by Vladimir Putin.

01:16:55.520 There were reports

01:16:56.020 that possibly

01:16:56.600 he'd been paid off.

01:16:57.620 We didn't quite

01:16:58.200 understand fully

01:16:59.060 the circumstances

01:16:59.780 under which

01:17:00.360 he abandoned

01:17:01.540 this revolt

01:17:02.560 against Putin

01:17:03.540 after Putin

01:17:04.200 had reportedly

01:17:05.240 been targeting

01:17:06.040 Pregosian's men

01:17:07.580 which was like

01:17:08.500 it's this military

01:17:09.220 faction in Russia

01:17:10.300 that had been

01:17:10.860 working for Putin

01:17:11.720 in Ukraine

01:17:12.580 and elsewhere

01:17:13.040 but then got

01:17:13.760 a bit more

01:17:14.320 independent

01:17:14.880 under Yevgeny

01:17:16.040 Pregosian

01:17:16.480 who was known

01:17:17.060 formally as

01:17:17.680 Putin's chef

01:17:18.740 but turned

01:17:20.740 into this military

01:17:21.520 warrior.

01:17:22.780 In any event

01:17:23.180 for a time there

01:17:23.860 he rebelled

01:17:24.300 against Putin.

01:17:25.100 He didn't like

01:17:25.420 what Putin

01:17:25.760 was doing

01:17:26.240 to his men.

01:17:26.960 A lot of guys

01:17:27.420 he had pulled

01:17:27.800 straight out of prison

01:17:28.620 to fight for him

01:17:29.440 and Putin

01:17:30.420 was in jeopardy.

01:17:31.280 There was a real

01:17:31.760 belief that

01:17:32.460 Putin could

01:17:33.320 somehow be

01:17:33.680 brought down

01:17:34.240 by some

01:17:34.820 who wanted

01:17:35.820 to see it happen.

01:17:36.940 That's not

01:17:37.320 what happened.

01:17:37.960 He brought

01:17:38.240 Yevgeny Pregosian

01:17:39.140 back into the fold

01:17:39.980 and onward

01:17:40.740 they went.

01:17:42.060 He's now dead.

01:17:43.500 According to

01:17:44.120 breaking news reports

01:17:45.320 his plane

01:17:46.480 mysteriously

01:17:47.500 went down.

01:17:49.460 We've got the video

01:17:50.400 and it does

01:17:52.460 look very bizarre.

01:17:53.400 I mean

01:17:53.540 it's disturbing.

01:17:55.040 You can see

01:17:55.380 that thing

01:17:55.680 going straight

01:17:56.560 straight down.

01:17:58.360 It's a vertical line

01:17:59.360 and then

01:18:01.600 we've got footage

01:18:02.360 of the burning

01:18:02.860 wreckage

01:18:03.300 once it hits

01:18:04.540 the ground.

01:18:05.680 He was on

01:18:06.500 the passenger

01:18:07.140 manifest.

01:18:09.160 He had

01:18:09.440 reportedly been

01:18:10.420 traveling I think

01:18:11.240 from St. Petersburg

01:18:12.320 to Moscow.

01:18:15.060 They said

01:18:15.460 that he

01:18:15.980 initially

01:18:16.700 they said

01:18:17.060 they weren't

01:18:17.340 sure if he was

01:18:17.820 on board

01:18:18.140 but now

01:18:18.460 they are

01:18:19.420 reporting

01:18:19.800 he was

01:18:20.120 on board

01:18:20.500 he is

01:18:20.980 dead.

01:18:22.440 It's tough

01:18:23.100 to say

01:18:23.720 this was

01:18:25.200 likely

01:18:25.520 accidental

01:18:26.160 guys.

01:18:26.580 Let's be

01:18:26.880 realistic.

01:18:27.440 I don't

01:18:27.700 want to

01:18:27.820 get ahead

01:18:28.120 of my

01:18:28.540 skis

01:18:28.860 here

01:18:29.080 but

01:18:29.380 awfully

01:18:30.500 coincidental

01:18:31.240 and when

01:18:31.860 you know

01:18:32.120 how

01:18:32.300 Vladimir

01:18:32.560 Putin

01:18:32.900 acts

01:18:33.520 when you

01:18:34.160 try to

01:18:34.440 betray

01:18:34.740 him

01:18:35.080 this is

01:18:37.480 what we're

01:18:37.720 dealing with

01:18:38.080 over there.

01:18:38.480 This is not

01:18:38.900 somebody who

01:18:39.700 plays by any

01:18:40.320 rules with

01:18:40.800 which we

01:18:41.120 are familiar.

01:18:43.120 There's

01:18:43.440 0.0001%

01:18:46.000 chance that

01:18:46.520 this is

01:18:46.960 accidental.

01:18:48.920 Pogosian was

01:18:49.580 just in

01:18:49.860 Africa.

01:18:50.340 Released a

01:18:50.760 video fairly

01:18:51.340 recently and

01:18:52.540 it was

01:18:52.760 interesting to

01:18:53.200 see him

01:18:53.540 back.

01:18:54.020 He had

01:18:54.160 been pushed

01:18:55.140 into exile

01:18:55.660 in Belarus

01:18:56.200 and we

01:18:56.940 don't know

01:18:57.320 what kind

01:18:57.760 of agreement

01:18:58.460 was made

01:18:59.400 but that

01:19:00.560 was a

01:19:01.680 step to

01:19:02.160 send him

01:19:02.660 to Minsk

01:19:03.360 and take

01:19:04.140 control of

01:19:05.400 his warriors

01:19:06.180 who were

01:19:07.080 taken out of

01:19:07.560 Ukraine.

01:19:08.320 Some of them

01:19:08.600 put back in

01:19:08.980 Africa,

01:19:09.300 presumably some

01:19:09.780 back in

01:19:10.200 Ukraine.

01:19:10.480 We don't

01:19:10.600 know the

01:19:10.780 details of

01:19:11.180 it.

01:19:11.300 But what

01:19:11.880 we do

01:19:12.220 know is

01:19:13.300 that steps

01:19:13.760 from the

01:19:14.080 Kremlin,

01:19:15.360 Boris Nemtsov

01:19:16.160 was shot

01:19:17.500 in the

01:19:17.680 head.

01:19:18.540 And Boris

01:19:18.840 Nemtsov was

01:19:19.560 a very

01:19:19.920 effective

01:19:20.420 anti-Putin

01:19:21.220 campaigner.

01:19:22.340 We know

01:19:22.880 that Alexei

01:19:25.040 Navalny

01:19:25.440 was in

01:19:26.080 prison and

01:19:26.860 he was

01:19:27.100 just sentenced

01:19:27.400 for another

01:19:27.780 19 years.

01:19:28.680 People forget

01:19:29.280 about not only

01:19:30.300 is he in

01:19:30.560 prison, he

01:19:31.220 has been

01:19:31.640 poisoned.

01:19:32.740 There was

01:19:33.020 somebody in

01:19:33.640 an anti-Putin

01:19:35.900 person in

01:19:36.340 Germany who

01:19:36.760 was presumed to

01:19:37.740 be poisoned

01:19:38.180 and we

01:19:46.140 know who

01:19:46.680 poisoned him.

01:19:47.780 And that

01:19:48.340 person went

01:19:48.820 on to serve

01:19:49.300 in the

01:19:49.500 Duma in

01:19:50.440 Russia and

01:19:51.120 became a

01:19:51.600 bit of a

01:19:51.900 hero.

01:19:52.480 The Skripals,

01:19:53.840 the couple

01:19:54.420 in the UK

01:19:56.960 who were

01:19:57.460 former FSB,

01:19:59.100 KGB, FSB

01:19:59.920 operatives who

01:20:00.540 were also

01:20:01.020 poisoned.

01:20:02.000 I mean,

01:20:02.260 Anna Politskaiva,

01:20:04.300 the incredible

01:20:05.120 journalist from

01:20:06.520 Novaya

01:20:06.840 Gazeta, the

01:20:07.600 only

01:20:07.980 independent

01:20:08.680 newspaper in

01:20:09.400 Russia, which

01:20:09.760 has since been

01:20:10.220 closed down at

01:20:11.640 the start of

01:20:12.280 the war in

01:20:12.680 Ukraine, was

01:20:13.620 brutally

01:20:13.920 assassinated in

01:20:15.100 a stairwell

01:20:15.860 going into

01:20:16.500 her apartment.

01:20:17.640 This is a

01:20:18.260 gangster country

01:20:19.100 that is run

01:20:19.800 by an

01:20:20.340 actual dictator.

01:20:21.420 We used to

01:20:21.900 call them

01:20:22.320 authoritarians and

01:20:23.380 it was

01:20:23.580 appropriate for

01:20:24.600 Putin for a

01:20:25.080 while.

01:20:26.040 But when

01:20:26.360 there's no

01:20:26.680 independent

01:20:27.020 judiciary, when

01:20:28.220 one cannot

01:20:28.740 run as an

01:20:29.540 independent

01:20:29.860 candidate, when

01:20:30.960 one speaks out

01:20:31.880 against the

01:20:33.180 government, one

01:20:33.960 can expect to

01:20:35.160 find themselves

01:20:35.980 in jail or

01:20:36.680 exile, that is

01:20:37.600 not in any

01:20:38.800 way a

01:20:39.600 democracy.

01:20:40.760 Prigozhin was

01:20:41.840 living on

01:20:42.380 borrowed time

01:20:42.980 because he did

01:20:43.860 the thing that

01:20:44.440 nobody dared to

01:20:45.460 do.

01:20:46.160 And he did it

01:20:46.540 quite effectively

01:20:47.160 too.

01:20:47.540 But one thing

01:20:47.960 that people do

01:20:48.560 forget about, it

01:20:49.320 wasn't just like,

01:20:50.120 hey, we're going

01:20:50.460 to march toward

01:20:51.020 Moscow.

01:20:51.380 They were going

01:20:51.940 towards Moscow.

01:20:52.460 They had shot

01:20:53.320 down a plane

01:20:53.980 that was a

01:20:55.560 Russian plane.

01:20:56.820 They had

01:20:57.040 killed Russian

01:20:57.980 soldiers on

01:20:59.140 their way out

01:21:00.140 of Ukraine to,

01:21:01.380 by the way,

01:21:01.840 complain about

01:21:02.980 things that were

01:21:03.460 acceptable and to

01:21:04.680 complain about

01:21:05.720 because they were

01:21:06.720 just meat grinder

01:21:07.660 soldiers at this

01:21:08.400 point.

01:21:08.960 As you said,

01:21:09.580 Megan, a lot of

01:21:09.980 these people were

01:21:10.740 killers who had

01:21:12.440 been released from

01:21:13.200 prison and put

01:21:14.360 into the Wagner

01:21:15.120 group.

01:21:15.900 And the Wagner

01:21:16.280 group is actually

01:21:16.880 the Wagner

01:21:17.320 group named

01:21:18.400 after Richard Wagner,

01:21:19.460 the anti-Semitic

01:21:21.120 German conductor

01:21:21.960 who was a favorite

01:21:22.480 of the Nazis

01:21:22.960 because they were

01:21:23.780 started by somebody

01:21:24.800 who was a fan of

01:21:25.640 the Nazis,

01:21:26.160 which is ironic

01:21:27.160 when you accuse

01:21:28.080 the Ukrainians of

01:21:28.980 being a Nazi state

01:21:30.020 run by a Jewish

01:21:30.740 man.

01:21:31.400 But this was

01:21:31.900 inevitable.

01:21:32.760 And in a way,

01:21:34.000 I'm surprised it

01:21:34.820 took this long.

01:21:35.800 But that is a

01:21:36.680 clear message.

01:21:38.200 Do not try this

01:21:39.500 because when Putin

01:21:40.260 having sort of

01:21:41.600 shaky support

01:21:43.040 because of how

01:21:44.000 poorly the war

01:21:44.600 has gone,

01:21:45.500 and it looking

01:21:46.340 as if you can do

01:21:47.160 this and get

01:21:47.600 pretty far in

01:21:48.340 doing that,

01:21:48.780 they basically

01:21:49.380 negotiated their

01:21:50.360 way out of

01:21:51.040 being overthrown

01:21:51.920 or those troops

01:21:52.860 battling on the

01:21:53.640 streets of Moscow,

01:21:54.900 that showed a

01:21:55.640 weakness and he

01:21:56.280 had to show

01:21:56.640 some strength.

01:21:57.660 And the strength

01:21:58.100 is to murder

01:21:58.800 10 other people

01:22:00.060 too.

01:22:00.920 And if there are

01:22:01.400 people in the way

01:22:02.100 to get to that

01:22:02.700 one person,

01:22:03.220 he'll do it.

01:22:04.920 It's just a

01:22:06.160 reminder of who

01:22:07.120 we're dealing

01:22:07.540 with over there.

01:22:08.400 You know,

01:22:08.640 I do think that

01:22:09.440 there is some

01:22:10.420 sort of a belief

01:22:11.160 that this is a

01:22:11.680 man we can work

01:22:12.360 with, this is a

01:22:12.860 man we can

01:22:13.200 negotiate with,

01:22:14.300 you know,

01:22:15.080 and it's not to

01:22:16.100 justify the war

01:22:16.780 in Ukraine,

01:22:17.340 but, you know,

01:22:18.300 the people who

01:22:19.980 support the war

01:22:20.680 in Ukraine say

01:22:21.960 like, he's not

01:22:23.800 going to be

01:22:24.340 deterred if we

01:22:26.100 just pull out

01:22:27.240 and say,

01:22:28.680 okay, you know,

01:22:29.800 you can have

01:22:30.220 what you took

01:22:31.040 so far, but

01:22:32.580 we're out of it.

01:22:33.160 It's no longer

01:22:33.600 our battle.

01:22:34.900 Vladimir Putin,

01:22:36.840 if we pull out,

01:22:37.640 is going to sense

01:22:38.340 opportunity.

01:22:39.080 He smells

01:22:39.500 weakness.

01:22:40.340 He will act on

01:22:41.540 the weakness.

01:22:42.080 He will grab

01:22:42.680 something else.

01:22:43.960 He's not afraid

01:22:44.680 to be provocative.

01:22:45.500 He's not afraid

01:22:46.580 of anything.

01:22:47.480 All he wants

01:22:47.900 to do is build

01:22:48.520 up Mother Russia

01:22:49.260 to its former

01:22:50.200 glory.

01:22:50.700 So, I mean,

01:22:51.120 I see the argument.

01:22:52.000 This isn't

01:22:52.480 necessarily proof

01:22:53.240 of, you know,

01:22:53.780 anything when it

01:22:54.560 comes to our

01:22:54.940 foreign policy,

01:22:55.560 but other than

01:22:56.240 this is not

01:22:57.320 somebody,

01:22:57.780 this is not,

01:22:58.280 it's not somebody

01:22:59.400 who we can work

01:23:00.120 with in a way

01:23:00.560 that we would

01:23:00.960 work with,

01:23:01.440 you know,

01:23:01.740 any truly friendly

01:23:02.800 ally.

01:23:03.440 Russia is run

01:23:04.800 by a very dark

01:23:06.300 man and we're

01:23:08.500 going to have to

01:23:08.860 deal with that.

01:23:09.460 You know,

01:23:09.620 so is China

01:23:10.740 for that matter.

01:23:11.240 It's like these

01:23:12.060 are the guys

01:23:12.580 who we're trying

01:23:14.020 to craft our

01:23:14.960 foreign policy

01:23:15.580 with and how

01:23:17.900 do you have,

01:23:19.000 you know,

01:23:19.180 to me,

01:23:19.580 it's like you

01:23:19.940 want somebody

01:23:20.280 tough in there.

01:23:20.840 This could help

01:23:21.280 somebody like a

01:23:21.840 Trump.

01:23:22.360 I'm going back

01:23:22.880 to presidential

01:23:23.320 politics.

01:23:24.160 You want somebody

01:23:24.620 tough.

01:23:25.040 You don't want

01:23:25.540 somebody squishy,

01:23:28.260 soft, shirtless.

01:23:31.000 I'm sorry.

01:23:31.600 I'm just saying

01:23:32.160 like this is what

01:23:33.220 attracts people to

01:23:34.780 a Donald Trump

01:23:35.420 is like you need

01:23:36.360 you need a little

01:23:36.900 madness on our

01:23:37.640 side, perhaps.

01:23:39.000 And we need to

01:23:39.440 keep Donald Trump's

01:23:40.160 shirt on by

01:23:41.000 any means.

01:23:42.780 And Joe Biden.

01:23:43.580 My God.

01:23:44.200 Joe Biden.

01:23:45.960 To tie it to the

01:23:47.220 top of the show,

01:23:47.780 when we talked

01:23:48.120 about Vivek

01:23:48.620 Ramaswamy, when

01:23:49.820 he came on the

01:23:50.260 fifth column, we

01:23:50.900 had a long and

01:23:51.980 kind of interesting

01:23:53.360 conversation just

01:23:54.700 about this where

01:23:55.640 Moynihan and I

01:23:56.420 were a bit

01:23:56.760 skeptical about

01:23:58.060 his plans, which

01:23:58.840 was basically to

01:23:59.760 negotiate with

01:24:00.820 Putin and

01:24:01.900 without Ukraine,

01:24:03.800 without Ukraine.

01:24:05.240 So in a similar

01:24:06.200 way to things

01:24:07.120 were negotiated in

01:24:08.040 the 1930s and

01:24:09.060 40s to ways

01:24:10.200 that small

01:24:10.620 countries in

01:24:11.160 Central Europe

01:24:11.700 were not very

01:24:12.540 fond of during

01:24:13.600 and afterwards,

01:24:14.420 he would do

01:24:15.240 that and grant

01:24:17.300 territory of

01:24:18.460 Ukraine to

01:24:19.480 Russia in

01:24:20.100 exchange for

01:24:21.140 promises of

01:24:22.060 NATO, not

01:24:23.060 including Ukraine

01:24:24.680 in the future.

01:24:25.900 This shows, I

01:24:27.120 think, kind of

01:24:28.440 the naivete or

01:24:29.140 illustrates the

01:24:29.800 naivete of that

01:24:30.700 position, both in

01:24:31.860 terms of like, I

01:24:32.900 can do the

01:24:33.460 negotiating better

01:24:34.180 than anyone else

01:24:34.720 has ever negotiated,

01:24:35.600 which is kind of

01:24:36.120 his approach.

01:24:37.960 If they don't

01:24:39.120 agree, then

01:24:39.800 Ukraine joins

01:24:40.740 NATO the next

01:24:41.240 day, was one

01:24:42.100 of his colorful

01:24:42.900 ideas about all

01:24:44.060 of that.

01:24:44.980 But it also

01:24:45.760 says, yes,

01:24:46.580 Megan, the

01:24:47.260 person that is

01:24:48.280 on the other

01:24:48.660 side of this

01:24:49.540 negotiation has

01:24:50.760 been trying and

01:24:52.340 very consistent

01:24:53.200 with Russian

01:24:53.700 public opinion,

01:24:54.500 even though we

01:24:55.340 don't really know

01:24:55.820 what Russian

01:24:56.160 public opinion

01:24:56.720 is, but we

01:24:57.300 do know that

01:24:57.720 there is that

01:24:58.720 sense of lost

01:25:00.700 national glory

01:25:01.540 because of the

01:25:02.080 dissolution of the

01:25:02.740 Soviet Union.

01:25:03.560 It's been a

01:25:03.840 popular project,

01:25:04.760 not just to

01:25:05.340 Vladimir Putin,

01:25:06.460 to meddle into

01:25:07.440 Russia's so-called

01:25:08.340 near-abroad, its

01:25:09.400 former imperial

01:25:10.680 holdings.

01:25:11.340 They've been doing

01:25:11.740 this in Moldova,

01:25:12.960 which is a very

01:25:13.440 interesting country

01:25:14.080 to watch right now,

01:25:15.280 tiny country near

01:25:16.120 Romania that's been

01:25:17.500 trying really hard

01:25:18.460 to not have their

01:25:19.900 problems in

01:25:20.660 Transnistra come

01:25:21.960 over to the rest

01:25:22.540 of the country,

01:25:23.540 certainly in

01:25:24.360 Georgia and

01:25:24.960 elsewhere.

01:25:25.800 This is the

01:25:26.780 person that you're

01:25:27.380 dealing with long

01:25:28.520 before NATO was

01:25:29.160 ever being expanded

01:25:30.300 or thought to be

01:25:31.020 expanded.

01:25:31.480 Russia and

01:25:32.940 Vladimir Putin and

01:25:33.660 others have been

01:25:34.120 trying to restore

01:25:35.000 this sense of

01:25:36.620 lost empire and

01:25:38.780 will resort,

01:25:39.980 doesn't really care

01:25:41.080 what people think.

01:25:42.140 He's been launching

01:25:43.140 one of the most

01:25:43.980 brutal wars,

01:25:46.240 civilian killing

01:25:46.860 wars that we've

01:25:47.480 seen in modern

01:25:48.700 times in our

01:25:49.360 lifetimes, at least

01:25:50.360 since the end of

01:25:50.860 the Cold War, and

01:25:52.240 continues to do it

01:25:52.960 day after day in

01:25:53.760 committing

01:25:54.140 assassinations.

01:25:55.220 So you've got to

01:25:55.940 be clear-headed

01:25:56.420 about that,

01:25:57.020 regardless of what

01:25:58.140 you think the

01:25:58.740 wisdom of giving

01:26:00.100 Ukrainians weapons

01:26:00.960 are.

01:26:01.480 Every country you

01:26:02.780 just listed paid

01:26:04.000 Hunter Biden

01:26:04.500 money.

01:26:08.940 I'm in the

01:26:09.580 wrong racket.

01:26:10.740 He knows how to

01:26:11.260 pick them.

01:26:12.020 One small thing to

01:26:13.520 add to that is,

01:26:14.500 Matt is right in

01:26:15.220 Russia's former

01:26:16.540 empire and near

01:26:17.200 abroad, but it's

01:26:17.720 bigger than that

01:26:18.340 too, because Putin

01:26:19.080 is very conscious

01:26:20.540 about expanding

01:26:21.740 Russian power and

01:26:22.740 showing Russia as

01:26:23.440 a great power.

01:26:24.000 It has nothing to

01:26:24.580 do with NATO.

01:26:25.460 And if it did have

01:26:26.100 something to do with

01:26:26.600 NATO, somebody has

01:26:27.620 to explain to me

01:26:28.360 why the number of

01:26:29.920 civilians who have

01:26:30.640 been killed by

01:26:31.480 Russians and Russian

01:26:32.460 bombers and Russian

01:26:33.420 military in Syria and

01:26:35.240 now in the Central

01:26:35.920 African Republic are as

01:26:37.820 high as they are, and

01:26:38.540 they're as high as they

01:26:39.140 are because they're

01:26:39.760 trying to put their

01:26:40.420 footprint in other

01:26:41.380 places in the world.

01:26:42.420 As America retreats,

01:26:43.920 this is Putin's idea,

01:26:45.440 we should be on the

01:26:46.860 offensive.

01:26:47.580 So this is not

01:26:48.140 somebody who would be

01:26:48.820 satiated by walking

01:26:50.580 away from NATO.

01:26:51.460 That was never in the

01:26:52.760 cards for Georgia, for

01:26:54.840 instance, and Ukraine.

01:26:56.640 I mean, these are

01:26:56.980 conversations that

01:26:57.720 haven't happened and

01:26:59.220 they're invaded.

01:27:00.380 So this is, it's

01:27:02.080 depressing and this

01:27:03.460 has, again, as you

01:27:04.240 said, Megan, this is

01:27:05.260 actually a really

01:27:05.720 important point.

01:27:06.560 This doesn't have

01:27:07.540 anything to do with

01:27:08.240 whether or not we're

01:27:09.040 giving money, giving

01:27:10.180 too much money, giving

01:27:11.260 too little money.

01:27:12.200 This is just looking at

01:27:13.400 a country on its own

01:27:14.740 and its expansionist,

01:27:16.620 revanchist ideas and it

01:27:19.020 is an imperial power and

01:27:20.520 it wants to be an

01:27:21.380 imperial power and it

01:27:22.920 is acting like one.

01:27:23.980 And the only thing

01:27:25.300 that people like Putin

01:27:26.500 care about is staying

01:27:27.680 in power.

01:27:28.440 And that's why

01:27:29.400 Purgosian just fell

01:27:30.440 out of the sky.

01:27:31.780 That's right.

01:27:32.200 You don't leave the

01:27:34.100 role that Vladimir

01:27:34.780 Putin has.

01:27:35.360 You either die or

01:27:37.120 you get killed.

01:27:38.140 Like you cannot leave

01:27:39.280 power.

01:27:40.280 Yes.

01:27:40.780 Something terrible

01:27:41.560 will happen to you.

01:27:42.300 You'll probably be

01:27:43.160 taken out.

01:27:43.840 So he has no choice.

01:27:45.100 I mean, he has a

01:27:45.640 choice, but realistically

01:27:46.760 in his mind, it's

01:27:48.180 kill or be killed.

01:27:49.020 Go ahead, Camille.

01:27:50.200 Yeah, it's just such a

01:27:51.100 volatile situation and

01:27:52.720 there are no good

01:27:53.960 options so far as I

01:27:55.160 can tell.

01:27:55.760 And I am just

01:27:56.840 yesterday, I was

01:27:57.540 having contemplating

01:27:58.860 the America's

01:28:00.380 adventures in the

01:28:01.520 Middle East in recent

01:28:02.520 years over the past

01:28:03.520 two decades.

01:28:04.620 We literally expended

01:28:05.980 two decades worth of

01:28:07.480 fortune and blood.

01:28:10.020 And a lot of that

01:28:10.680 blood belonged to

01:28:11.940 people who live in

01:28:12.720 those regions.

01:28:13.340 I'm trying to make

01:28:15.580 particular kinds of

01:28:16.620 changes in the

01:28:17.240 Middle East.

01:28:18.120 And it sure as hell

01:28:19.860 isn't obvious to me

01:28:21.020 that most of those

01:28:22.640 efforts were not for

01:28:23.640 naught.

01:28:25.240 And it's just, it's

01:28:26.820 hard to say exactly

01:28:28.420 where things would

01:28:29.500 have gone but for

01:28:31.000 those interventions.

01:28:31.980 I'm not saying that

01:28:32.680 they'd be better or

01:28:33.320 worse, but at this

01:28:34.080 point, 20 years later,

01:28:35.340 given the amount of

01:28:36.040 time and effort and

01:28:37.000 energy that was

01:28:38.180 expended there, that

01:28:40.380 we can't say

01:28:41.140 definitively that this

01:28:42.600 improved matters, I

01:28:44.100 think is important and

01:28:45.240 worth filing away

01:28:46.460 someplace while we're

01:28:47.840 thinking about exactly

01:28:49.160 what the right thing to

01:28:50.000 do is here and what

01:28:50.900 the right kind of

01:28:51.460 leadership looks like.

01:28:53.700 It's certainly true

01:28:54.640 that you don't want

01:28:55.360 someone who's kind of

01:28:56.780 capitulating to Putin

01:28:57.880 at every turn, but you

01:28:59.640 do have to talk to him.

01:29:00.880 He is in fact in power

01:29:02.080 and there are going to

01:29:03.600 be a lot of difficult

01:29:04.640 decisions and choices

01:29:05.720 that have to be made

01:29:06.580 that are uncomfortable,

01:29:07.620 that are unattractive,

01:29:09.060 but we could do with

01:29:10.840 just a great deal more

01:29:12.200 sober, thoughtful

01:29:13.360 reasoning when it

01:29:14.680 comes to conversations

01:29:15.620 about these issues, as

01:29:16.680 opposed to what's been

01:29:17.720 happening, where even

01:29:19.300 to the extent that

01:29:19.940 there's opposition to

01:29:21.560 what's happening in

01:29:22.720 terms of the investment

01:29:23.560 on behalf of Ukrainian

01:29:25.360 forces by the United

01:29:26.300 States, to the extent

01:29:27.300 the criticism of that

01:29:28.800 is largely, well, we're

01:29:30.300 supporting Nazis.

01:29:31.860 That is just not at all

01:29:33.860 serious and completely

01:29:35.660 ignores the gravity of

01:29:37.820 the circumstance here.

01:29:39.160 I mean, this is just

01:29:39.880 incredibly untenable and

01:29:41.840 has the capacity to

01:29:43.900 become something that

01:29:45.500 is just a wide-ranging

01:29:46.820 conflict that involves

01:29:48.360 a great many parties.

01:29:50.880 So I'm hopeful that we

01:29:52.880 can get to a better

01:29:53.540 place, but it's just

01:29:54.220 tough.

01:29:55.520 It does make you think

01:29:56.160 about foreign policy and

01:29:57.900 who's got the best

01:29:58.640 foreign policy chops.

01:29:59.740 You know, you've got

01:30:00.180 Nikki Haley, who was at

01:30:01.620 the UN, who was a

01:30:03.740 sitting governor.

01:30:04.480 The governors don't tend

01:30:05.380 to have foreign policy

01:30:06.200 chops, so you wouldn't

01:30:07.920 expect much from her if

01:30:09.860 she hadn't had the UN

01:30:10.660 role, or from Ron DeSantis,

01:30:12.560 for that matter.

01:30:13.440 You've got, I mean, he

01:30:14.900 was a U.S.

01:30:15.420 congressman, though, so

01:30:16.180 DeSantis has got that

01:30:17.040 too.

01:30:17.900 Asa Hutchinson, also a

01:30:19.020 governor.

01:30:19.560 You know, we don't have a

01:30:20.160 lot out there other than

01:30:21.520 the gorilla, who is a

01:30:24.780 former president of the

01:30:25.540 United States.

01:30:26.200 You know, Donald Trump

01:30:26.700 was commander-in-chief.

01:30:27.660 Like, that's obviously

01:30:28.960 going to work to his

01:30:29.580 advantage.

01:30:29.960 Just to update you guys

01:30:31.040 as well, this reporting

01:30:32.840 coming to us via BBC.

01:30:34.780 Wagner-linked

01:30:35.540 Telegram channel.

01:30:36.960 So this is a

01:30:37.400 Telegram channel that

01:30:38.160 should be in the know

01:30:38.880 about what's happening to

01:30:39.640 the Wagner Group.

01:30:40.880 Grayzone reporting that

01:30:42.480 the aircraft was shot

01:30:43.380 down, shot down by air

01:30:45.180 defenses north of

01:30:46.360 Moscow.

01:30:47.360 The jet was flying from

01:30:48.380 Moscow to St.

01:30:49.600 Petersburg, carrying

01:30:50.720 seven passengers, three

01:30:51.840 crew.

01:30:52.700 Grayzone said local

01:30:53.420 residents heard two

01:30:54.660 bangs before the crash

01:30:56.180 and then saw two vapor

01:30:57.800 trails.

01:30:59.040 TAS news agency saying

01:31:00.400 the plane caught fire

01:31:01.420 upon hitting the ground,

01:31:02.780 adding that four bodies

01:31:03.800 have already been found.

01:31:05.180 The aircraft had been in

01:31:06.080 the air for less than

01:31:07.840 half an hour, it said.

01:31:09.420 You know, I was just

01:31:09.780 listening to a report

01:31:10.480 talking about how

01:31:11.220 domestic air travel here

01:31:14.180 in the United States is,

01:31:15.760 you know, it's been so

01:31:16.460 safe.

01:31:16.880 We haven't had a major

01:31:17.540 crash, I think they said,

01:31:18.400 in 14 years.

01:31:19.800 But they're just calling

01:31:20.400 like a meeting now with

01:31:23.020 air traffic controllers

01:31:23.800 at the federal level

01:31:24.720 because we've had too

01:31:25.860 many near misses, which

01:31:27.300 is such a weird name.

01:31:28.220 It's a near hit.

01:31:28.980 It's an actual miss and

01:31:30.380 it's a near hit.

01:31:31.240 I don't know why we call

01:31:31.900 them near misses.

01:31:32.700 In any event, we're now

01:31:34.920 we have, I guess,

01:31:35.880 staffing problems at the

01:31:37.020 airports.

01:31:37.400 We have too many new

01:31:38.980 pilots.

01:31:40.140 I would just add my own

01:31:41.240 two cents.

01:31:41.860 We're focused on DEI

01:31:43.020 instead of hiring the

01:31:43.900 best and the brightest

01:31:44.600 and the most talented.

01:31:45.820 And we're having an

01:31:47.140 uptick in potential

01:31:49.720 problems with our own

01:31:50.680 aircraft.

01:31:51.460 That's not what happened

01:31:52.760 in Moscow.

01:31:54.400 But I'm trying to

01:31:55.460 underscore just the

01:31:56.280 the the rarity with

01:31:57.940 which a plane ever goes

01:31:59.160 down on its own.

01:32:00.420 It's incredibly rare in

01:32:02.220 modern day America or

01:32:03.940 Russia, even in Russia.

01:32:05.980 And, you know, according

01:32:07.600 to these reports, yeah,

01:32:09.400 it certainly looks like it

01:32:10.140 was shot down.

01:32:11.520 It was not.

01:32:13.540 Let's see.

01:32:14.640 It was.

01:32:15.260 Oh, wow.

01:32:16.560 It was exactly today is

01:32:18.360 actually exactly two

01:32:20.100 months from the failed

01:32:21.040 coup.

01:32:21.840 It happened on June

01:32:22.820 23rd.

01:32:23.820 Well, that's interesting

01:32:24.840 too.

01:32:25.560 They want you to know

01:32:26.320 that they're doing this.

01:32:27.640 They're not going to

01:32:28.060 admit it.

01:32:28.480 They're going to say that

01:32:29.180 they didn't do it, but

01:32:30.080 they want you to know.

01:32:31.460 And, you know, it's

01:32:32.200 interesting.

01:32:32.680 There was it's about how

01:32:34.640 the frequency of things

01:32:35.540 that happen.

01:32:36.040 I mean, there was a

01:32:37.020 migrant ship off of

01:32:39.680 illegal migrants going

01:32:40.800 to Europe that sank

01:32:43.240 and, you know, 800

01:32:44.180 people died.

01:32:46.000 And then the, you know,

01:32:47.480 guy that was going down

01:32:48.520 to see the Titanic and

01:32:49.760 there's a bunch of rich

01:32:50.360 people.

01:32:50.680 And, you know, they

01:32:51.420 and everywhere I saw

01:32:52.680 everywhere I saw people

01:32:54.380 saying, oh, we care

01:32:55.420 about these rich.

01:32:55.980 We don't care about the

01:32:56.680 800.

01:32:57.320 The thing is, is that

01:32:58.340 there's a drumbeat of

01:32:59.060 this stuff.

01:32:59.500 There's so many migrants

01:33:00.920 who have drowned on the

01:33:01.880 way to Europe.

01:33:02.440 And the reason I bring

01:33:03.300 this up is that we

01:33:04.760 don't like Putin

01:33:05.700 understands we don't

01:33:06.480 care about this stuff

01:33:07.320 because it happens so

01:33:08.140 frequently.

01:33:08.640 Does anyone even

01:33:09.780 remember that Russian

01:33:11.520 aligned forces shot a

01:33:13.180 passenger plane out of

01:33:15.100 the sky?

01:33:15.760 It has been research and

01:33:17.060 studied by a million

01:33:17.880 people.

01:33:18.240 And we know that that

01:33:19.280 Russian aligned people

01:33:20.480 in the Donetsk and

01:33:21.680 Luhansk region shot a

01:33:23.440 plane out of the sky

01:33:25.100 with 200 odd civilians

01:33:27.060 on it, a Dutch

01:33:27.880 aircraft that just

01:33:28.760 happened to be flying

01:33:29.480 over Ukraine.

01:33:30.860 That had no effect on

01:33:32.700 the public consciousness

01:33:33.480 in any big way.

01:33:34.980 So what does it matter

01:33:36.160 if you shoot this guy

01:33:37.360 out of the sky who,

01:33:39.180 you know, tried to

01:33:39.960 overthrow the

01:33:40.400 government?

01:33:41.120 I mean, when we don't

01:33:42.040 react to anything,

01:33:43.460 then you're not going

01:33:44.460 to react to things

01:33:45.240 like this.

01:33:46.240 And so, you know, the

01:33:47.020 frequency of things,

01:33:48.180 whether it's these

01:33:48.740 migrants, it's like the

01:33:49.600 reason we don't pay

01:33:50.200 attention to it is it

01:33:51.060 happens so often in the

01:33:52.360 fact that you shoot a

01:33:53.040 passenger plane out of

01:33:53.940 the sky.

01:33:54.420 And that really people

01:33:55.560 never remember that.

01:33:56.840 And that is one of the

01:33:58.120 most hideous crimes of

01:34:00.300 the past 10 years.

01:34:01.600 Unbelievable that that

01:34:02.420 happened and nobody

01:34:03.040 really cares about it.

01:34:04.600 One group that cares

01:34:05.540 about it are the Dutch

01:34:06.800 who just sent them a

01:34:08.240 whole bunch of attack

01:34:08.880 helicopters.

01:34:09.760 Yes, they do remember

01:34:10.640 that.

01:34:10.860 Exactly.

01:34:11.380 Listen, I think back to

01:34:12.400 when I was in Moscow and

01:34:14.260 St. Petersburg with

01:34:15.040 Vladimir Putin, and he

01:34:17.000 was telling me about how

01:34:19.220 much he loved his

01:34:20.140 mother and how much he

01:34:21.880 loves his daughters and

01:34:23.980 trying to paint himself as

01:34:25.980 somebody who I I would

01:34:27.500 like, who I would, you

01:34:29.520 know, soften toward.

01:34:30.940 And everything he does is a

01:34:32.620 manipulation, right?

01:34:33.380 I mean, he is a former KGB

01:34:34.560 spy.

01:34:35.800 Everything is a calculation,

01:34:36.800 a manipulation, and

01:34:37.760 he's good at it.

01:34:38.640 He's really good at it.

01:34:39.680 He's a good actor.

01:34:41.400 There's he lures people into

01:34:43.640 thinking like George W.

01:34:44.980 Bush, that you can look

01:34:46.700 into his eyes and see

01:34:47.520 something good and actually

01:34:48.380 work with him.

01:34:49.660 Think again.

01:34:50.840 He's clever and he's

01:34:52.420 ruthless.

01:34:53.960 Guys, thank you both.

01:34:55.280 Thank you all for coming on

01:34:56.420 today.

01:34:56.640 What a great discussion.

01:34:57.400 Really appreciate it.

01:34:58.160 And look forward to seeing

01:34:59.160 how many of our predictions

01:34:59.860 turn out to be correct.

01:35:04.020 Thanks for listening to the

01:35:05.080 Megan Kelly show.

01:35:06.200 No BS, no agenda and no

01:35:08.380 fear.

01:35:13.640 What a great discussion.

01:35:31.240 What a great discussion.

01:35:33.820 What a hard question.

The Megyn Kelly Show - August 23, 2023

Vivek's 9⧸11 Spin, Trump's Arrest Theater, and Prigozhin Dies in Plane Crash, with The Fifth Column Hosts ｜ Ep. 613

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