The Michael Knowles Show - October 17, 2022


84 Year Old Pro-Life Grandmother SHOT ｜ Joan Jacobson


Episode Stats

Length

24 minutes

Words per Minute

179.35909

Word Count

4,416

Sentence Count

329

Misogynist Sentences

11

Hate Speech Sentences

3


Summary

On September 21st, a woman named Joanne Jacobson was canvassing against a pro-abortion ballot proposition that was up for a vote in a Michigan town when a woman with a loaded gun approached her and shot her in the back of the head.


Transcript

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00:00:37.740 On September 21st in Lake Odessa, Michigan, Joanne Jacobson was canvassing against a pro-abortion ballot proposition that was up for a vote.
00:00:48.740 And so she was going around neighborhoods, as a lot of campaigners do, expressing her views and persuading her fellow citizens.
00:00:55.860 And it was all going just fine until she got to one home, the Harvey residence, where the woman, Mrs. Harvey, instantly became very, very hostile, was clearly very supportive of abortion.
00:01:09.280 And I suppose Mrs. Harvey is entitled to her opinions.
00:01:15.700 But then what happened is Mrs. Harvey's husband came out with a gun, with a loaded gun, and shot Joanne Jacobson.
00:01:25.020 Joanne is 84 years old, 120 pounds, retired nurse, not someone you would say is presenting a particular physical threat to you or your family.
00:01:36.040 She was shot, and this story has received basically no coverage anywhere in the establishment media because it contradicts the pro-abortion narratives that they were all trying to sell.
00:01:46.680 So we think that it is only right and just and fair to have Joanne on with her lawyer, attorney Steve Coleman, to just explain what happened.
00:01:57.380 Joanne, thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:01:59.780 I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to you.
00:02:01.740 Well, thank you for having me.
00:02:05.120 I would say I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you.
00:02:09.460 I'm so happy to hear that you escaped.
00:02:11.620 Obviously, the situation could have gone way differently, and you would not be sitting here talking about this today.
00:02:17.460 So just, if you wouldn't mind, what happened?
00:02:22.020 You mean start from the beginning?
00:02:23.600 Please, yeah.
00:02:24.180 Okay, when I went to the door, you know, I told her why I was being there, and she identified herself as being Mrs. Harvey.
00:02:32.560 And immediately when I mentioned Proposal 3 and voting no, she got very angry, antagonistic, and said that no, she was going to vote no on it.
00:02:42.700 And I said to her, I kept calm, I didn't raise my voice, and I said, did she know that it was going to amend the state constitution?
00:02:51.360 And she just said she didn't care, she was going to vote no, and then she proceeded to tell me that she had had a tubal pregnancy.
00:02:59.560 And I said to her, I said, well, there's always been an exception for the life of the mother, because in this situation, that's what happens.
00:03:09.440 They have to take the baby, because it's not going to be able to mature in the fallopian tube.
00:03:16.160 And so, you know, I said, I told her again a second time, and I don't think that she understood what I was saying about it.
00:03:25.140 It's an exception to the life of the mother, and obviously her life was in danger.
00:03:30.660 Well, she keeps yelling, and she says, well, I don't want this to happen to anybody else, and I can't even have a chance to explain to her that, yes, this is going to happen to somebody else.
00:03:42.300 Medicine doesn't know, to my knowledge, when a mother's going to have an ectopic pregnancy.
00:03:49.660 There's nothing that they can do to stop it.
00:03:51.440 And so she then immediately says, you don't have a right to be here and get off my property, to which I replied, I'm going.
00:04:01.460 So I got down the steps, there were three or four steps to get up to the port, got on the sidewalk.
00:04:08.300 I'm carrying a clipboard, because I have a list of homes that I'm going to go visit.
00:04:13.740 And they're telling me I had my umbrella, because it was raining that day.
00:04:17.260 I couldn't tell the police for sure if I had the umbrella or not.
00:04:20.460 So I'm hanging on to my clipboard and my umbrella, and it's a long sidewalk.
00:04:26.920 It's not like the city.
00:04:28.560 It's a long sidewalk from the home to the driveway, 50, 60 feet.
00:04:34.960 And so I'm about 12, 15 feet down on the sidewalk, and she's behind me yelling.
00:04:41.200 So she's following you as you walk away.
00:04:44.120 Well, yeah, I mean, she's off the porch, she's on right at the bottom of the steps, and she's on her cell phone, and she's yelling at me constantly.
00:04:55.540 I don't remember everything that she yelled, but she was yelling, get off my property.
00:05:00.000 And so I kept going, and as I'm walking out of the corner of my eye, I saw that there was a man.
00:05:09.260 There was a barn on the property.
00:05:11.360 There was a man walking alongside the barn.
00:05:14.600 Didn't think anything of it.
00:05:16.260 He didn't come up and talk to me.
00:05:18.260 The police asked me, well, was he carrying a gun?
00:05:20.320 And I said, I can't tell you if he was carrying a gun or not.
00:05:25.040 He didn't come and talk to me.
00:05:26.680 He went around the back of me, and I'm just assuming he's going up to his home.
00:05:32.580 Really didn't think a thing of it.
00:05:35.060 Keep walking and hanging on my clipboard and my umbrella.
00:05:40.140 They told me I had the umbrella.
00:05:43.540 And she's yelling constantly behind me, you know, get off my property.
00:05:47.960 And then at some point, all of a sudden, she's alongside of me.
00:05:53.700 I'm on the sidewalk, and she's in the grass, but five or six feet away from me.
00:06:00.520 And I looked up for some reason, and the police said that there were two shots.
00:06:07.840 I had only heard one shot.
00:06:10.120 So I'm thinking what made me look up is the fact I do have some carrying problem.
00:06:15.560 And that I heard something, didn't recognize it as being a gunshot.
00:06:22.220 And then, so I'm turning sideways and looking, and I see the man is standing next to her in the grass.
00:06:30.140 And as soon as I realized he was standing there, I noticed, the first thing I noticed was he had this gun, long-barreled gun.
00:06:38.820 And by the time, just a matter of seconds, it's like, I heard the shot, and I felt this pain.
00:06:46.040 And I thought, oh, he's hit me in the back because I had intense pain in the back.
00:06:53.540 And they didn't say anything.
00:06:56.320 And I didn't think I said anything, but I've been told she evidently was taping what was happening.
00:07:02.660 And I said, did he shoot me?
00:07:05.140 I thought I just said it to myself.
00:07:07.180 He didn't say anything.
00:07:08.540 She didn't say anything.
00:07:10.020 And that was all I said.
00:07:11.380 And I started walking to my car because I'm almost at the end of the sidewalk, so I'm pretty much closer to my car.
00:07:20.480 I open up the door, and I'm thinking, am I going to be able to drive?
00:07:23.840 I didn't know how badly I was hurt.
00:07:26.340 And so I didn't feel dizzy or faint or, you know, any other symptoms other than pain.
00:07:34.540 So I thought, well, I think I can get in the car and drive.
00:07:36.920 And so I didn't call 911.
00:07:40.760 I didn't get ready to get behind the wheel, and I happened to look through the windshield of the car.
00:07:46.180 And they're both still standing there.
00:07:48.620 And I told the cop, I said, for a fleeting second, I thought, this guy's going to shoot me again.
00:07:54.340 He's going to shoot right through the window.
00:07:56.600 Well, fortunately, he didn't.
00:07:58.040 I get in the car, get it in gear, back up, get on the road, and think, what am I going to do?
00:08:03.820 And I thought, well, I've got to tell the police.
00:08:05.700 So I drove to the police station in Lake Odessa.
00:08:09.200 It's probably been about three miles or so.
00:08:12.420 I get there, and the village manager comes out, and he says, what can I do for you?
00:08:16.740 And I said, I think I've been shot.
00:08:19.780 And shot, he said.
00:08:21.380 And I turned around, and I said, can you see anything?
00:08:23.640 Because it hit up here on my shoulder.
00:08:25.660 Of course, I can't see it.
00:08:27.840 And he immediately said to me, he said, go sit down on that couch over there.
00:08:31.620 And the next thing I know, I'm surrounded by about five or six people, and they're wanting
00:08:36.540 to take off my top.
00:08:37.980 And they're telling me, no, no, no, don't move.
00:08:40.040 Keep your back straight.
00:08:41.440 And they're rolling me and putting me on a board.
00:08:44.280 And before I do it, I'm in the ambulance, and I'm on the way to the emergency room.
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00:09:53.800 So, the shot landed, it was in your back, it was in your shoulder, it was...
00:09:59.400 It went over the...
00:10:01.800 Because of my turning sideways, it hit the top of my right shoulder and exited out my back
00:10:09.180 up in the thoracic area of the spine.
00:10:13.040 And I was told by the doctors that I was one lucky person because it just narrowly missed
00:10:18.200 my spine.
00:10:18.760 I'm fortunate otherwise, and the reason I could drive is because it didn't hit any major
00:10:25.860 vessels and it didn't hit the bone.
00:10:28.440 So, that's why I was able to, you know, safely, I didn't think I was going to endanger myself
00:10:32.640 or, you know, anybody else on the road to get behind the car and drive to the police station.
00:10:37.720 Joanne, I have to tell you, there are some times when I stub my toe and I feel that I can't
00:10:42.200 drive.
00:10:42.520 So, the fact that you were able to drive after being shot is extraordinarily impressive.
00:10:47.760 And thank God that the people at the police station were able to say, sit down, we're taking
00:10:52.640 you to the emergency room, we're going to treat you.
00:10:56.360 Obviously, both of these people should be in prison.
00:10:58.560 I'm not a lawyer, I don't, I'm not a cop, I don't work for the Justice Department, but
00:11:04.100 it would seem clear to me that if two people shoot a pro-life canvasser, an 84-year-old
00:11:10.960 pro-life canvasser, 120 pounds soaking wet, walking to her car, these people should be
00:11:15.840 arrested and in jail.
00:11:17.000 So, are they in jail?
00:11:18.960 They are, he is arrested, he's out on bond.
00:11:21.580 He's out, of course he's out on bond, of course.
00:11:23.620 They've only charged the husband right now, they charged him with a four-year felony and
00:11:28.280 two misdemeanors.
00:11:29.480 So, he was charged and arraigned and he got a $10,000 bond and he posted, and so he's out
00:11:35.260 right now.
00:11:36.760 A four-year felony?
00:11:38.320 He shot an 84-year-old woman on his property for doing something that is perfectly legal,
00:11:43.640 by the way, to go around and canvass and campaign and persuade your fellow citizens.
00:11:48.120 That's as American as apple pie.
00:11:49.820 Four-year felony?
00:11:52.040 I realize, yeah.
00:11:53.320 Yeah, we had obviously hoped for a much stricter charge, but the prosecutor, we spoke to the
00:11:58.660 prosecutor and he said the guy didn't have any criminal record and there were some other
00:12:02.620 mitigating factors and he just felt that that was all he could do.
00:12:05.180 And so, unfortunately, our hands are tied.
00:12:07.560 It's his choice and so that's what he charged.
00:12:09.680 Steve, I don't have a criminal record either.
00:12:11.540 I think if I shot an 84-year-old woman on my property as she was walking to her car,
00:12:15.440 I suspect that not only would I be charged with more than a four-year felony, I would
00:12:20.720 deserve to be charged with a lot more.
00:12:24.120 So, part of the issue is that his defense, at least, is that it was an accident.
00:12:28.380 He said that Joanne was swinging around her clipboard.
00:12:32.600 Now, I don't know how swinging around a clipboard is a lethal danger or something that gives rise
00:12:37.060 to you shooting someone, but he said she was swinging around her clipboard.
00:12:40.780 We obviously vehemently disagree with that.
00:12:43.040 And he said he tried to knock her clipboard down with his gun and it accidentally went off.
00:12:48.140 That's his story, at least.
00:12:50.040 And so, he's saying-
00:12:51.720 Steve, I got to stop you there.
00:12:52.620 So, he's saying it's an accident that he went and got his loaded rifle to terrorize an
00:12:59.220 84-year-old woman walking to her car who may or may not have moved her clipboard around.
00:13:05.560 And so, you know, the normal way to lower a clipboard is to take a loaded rifle, barrel
00:13:11.580 first, and what, try to nudge it?
00:13:14.260 That's just so, it's so preposterous that if a woman hadn't been shot as a result of it,
00:13:20.640 I would be laughing right now.
00:13:22.620 Well, it's ridiculous.
00:13:23.640 There's two big things that really just dispel what he's saying.
00:13:26.400 First, he fired a warning shot.
00:13:28.020 So, he knew the gun was loaded.
00:13:29.380 He can't say, oh, I didn't know there were bullets in there.
00:13:31.220 I didn't know it could fire.
00:13:32.600 He acknowledged I fired a warning shot and they have proof that it hit a tree.
00:13:36.020 So, he knew the gun was loaded, so he can't say he didn't know that.
00:13:39.060 And second, if someone truly accidentally, you know, let's say for a second that he's right.
00:13:44.260 Let's say it was a total accident.
00:13:45.620 He had a total lapse of judgment.
00:13:46.740 Let's give him the benefit of the doubt for just one second.
00:13:49.120 Let's say that that's true.
00:13:50.300 Is that a normal response, how they acted after he shot someone?
00:13:53.680 I would think if I accidentally shot someone, the first response would be, oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry.
00:13:58.700 I didn't mean it.
00:13:59.340 Let me call an ambulance for you.
00:14:00.640 I didn't know.
00:14:01.240 I'm so sorry.
00:14:02.360 Did they do any of that?
00:14:03.820 No.
00:14:04.020 Are you afraid you might be facing some charges?
00:14:08.520 It's always possible.
00:14:09.780 I mean, yeah, I shot somebody.
00:14:11.600 Yeah.
00:14:12.620 It was an accident.
00:14:14.240 They shot her and said nothing and just watched her meander back to her car and go get help.
00:14:19.160 That's not how someone behaves after they accidentally shoot someone.
00:14:22.200 This is so outrageous.
00:14:24.360 I usually come down on the side of, oh, let's give people the benefit of the doubt.
00:14:28.960 Let's be merciful.
00:14:29.880 Let's just go, you know, let's show grace.
00:14:31.820 But it's just every single step of the way, I don't see how you can interpret any of these events in any light other than this lunatic had a fit of anger and shot an 84-year-old woman.
00:14:49.100 Totally agree.
00:14:49.640 So, if you don't mind my asking, who's the prosecutor?
00:14:54.920 It's the Ione County prosecutor.
00:14:57.180 Ione County prosecutor?
00:14:59.740 Okay.
00:15:00.240 I think, you know, for people who are watching this right now and listening to this, if you're in the county, if you're in the state, or if you're not in the county and not in the state, I would certainly call the prosecutor's office.
00:15:11.640 I would certainly call your congressman.
00:15:12.960 I would certainly call your senator.
00:15:14.420 This is such a horrific miscarriage of justice.
00:15:16.660 Also, because you know, I mean, Joanne, I obviously share your pro-life sympathies and point of view.
00:15:22.620 And you just know right now the Department of Justice, all the way at the federal level, is arresting pro-lifers not only for minor infractions of the law, but for completely bogus alleged minor infractions of the law that actually haven't taken place.
00:15:39.300 And we've seen these stories increasing in recent weeks.
00:15:41.720 I've covered a lot of them on my show.
00:15:43.560 And so, you know, if the situation were reversed here, they would absolutely be throwing the book at the pro-lifer.
00:15:49.540 They already are doing that.
00:15:50.800 And I just, it's just, it's just such a heinous miscarriage of justice because a nice 84-year-old woman is going around to persuade her fellow citizens that maybe we shouldn't kill as many babies, that she gets shot.
00:16:03.240 And the prosecutor does effectively nothing about it.
00:16:06.360 Yeah, I think that they're being influenced by what's being said out there.
00:16:12.680 The fact, I think their rhetoric is that they're telling women that if we ban abortion in the state, women are going to die.
00:16:21.500 And they're using this particular situation, the, you know, the ectopic pregnancies, and they're claiming that the abortionist, if we ban abortion, the abortionist will get arrested if he takes the baby out.
00:16:38.360 It's never been considered an abortion in that case.
00:16:42.740 But that's the message that these, I think this woman probably is hearing also.
00:16:47.820 Of course.
00:16:48.680 And likewise, the man.
00:16:51.020 And of course, what our president is saying and, you know, about, I understand he called me a right-wing nut or something.
00:16:59.400 I don't know where, but I've heard this.
00:17:01.980 And so, yeah, it's, I blame Biden and the Democrat Party for the rhetoric out there.
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00:18:36.980 I suppose it's to be expected that someone who would be so opposed to a pro-life canvasser would very nearly kill that person in a sort of fit of anger.
00:18:49.400 On the topic of this ballot proposition, do you have any sense of where it stands right now?
00:18:54.960 You say there's a lot of misinformation there about it.
00:18:57.360 How do you think it's going to turn out?
00:18:59.620 I can't say.
00:19:01.000 I really don't know.
00:19:02.540 I've been kind of secluded for a couple of weeks.
00:19:06.620 Right.
00:19:06.980 Yeah, I haven't heard anything.
00:19:08.520 It's going to be a tough one because of how they've used Orwell to rephrase it.
00:19:13.240 They've labeled it the Reproductive Freedom Initiative, and who could be against that?
00:19:17.260 You're right.
00:19:18.120 And so I think most voters, they just hear that name, and they're like, oh, that sounds good.
00:19:22.220 I think it'd be for that.
00:19:23.920 But they don't realize what it actually does or what it actually says.
00:19:27.040 And so one of the things that we've done, we're helping Joanne, but we have the Great Lakes Justice Center, which is our organization here in Michigan.
00:19:32.900 And so we put out issue briefs and fact sheets just explaining what it would do to try to inform the public on what it would truly do in Michigan and how awful it would be and how broad it would truly be interpreted by the courts.
00:19:43.840 The recent polls that we've seen right now are about 61 percent are in favor.
00:19:49.680 And so we're very concerned that it's going to go through.
00:19:52.240 And the worst part is, is one in three Republicans here say they're for it.
00:19:56.800 And I certainly hope that's just because they don't know what it truly is.
00:19:59.600 Right. Well, when you label something, you know, the Freedom and Candy and Puppies Act, then, you know, of course, everybody says that they're for it, regardless of what is in the bill.
00:20:08.560 Joanne, you mentioned you've been sort of taking it easy for the last couple of weeks.
00:20:12.960 How is your recovery going?
00:20:15.500 The doctor told me it would, because of my age, of course, it's going to take a long time to heal.
00:20:20.340 So the wound here is healed, but the one on the back is bigger and it's taking longer to heal.
00:20:31.100 So I can't take showers yet.
00:20:33.260 Don't want to get any water down into the end.
00:20:35.760 So I have to worry about infection.
00:20:37.880 But that seems not to be the case so far.
00:20:40.980 Thank goodness.
00:20:41.760 Well, that's wonderful.
00:20:42.960 I mean, I think even if, you know, a 25 year old were shot through the shoulder, you know, that would be a difficult recovery.
00:20:49.420 And so, of course, if you're if you're 84, that's going to take longer.
00:20:53.560 Has has the the man or the this wife, the Harvey family, have they reached out at all?
00:20:59.100 Have they sent flowers?
00:21:00.160 Have they said, sorry, we shot you?
00:21:02.660 No, no, they have not.
00:21:05.040 Well, one interesting thing that happened, though, was shortly after it happened, a few days after it happened, one of the local TV stations heard about it and went to the residence and they went on camera and Mr.
00:21:15.500 Harvey talked to him and acknowledged on camera.
00:21:17.560 Yeah, I shot her.
00:21:18.280 And she's got this clipboard.
00:21:20.260 She's waving around.
00:21:21.180 I'm thinking she's going to smack Sharon with it.
00:21:23.500 So without thinking, I went to club it away with the rifle and my finger was still in the trigger card.
00:21:29.880 And it went off and it went off and hit her about in here.
00:21:34.120 And so obviously he hadn't been talking to an attorney at that point, I would assume.
00:21:38.000 But we have on video basically his confession that he shot her.
00:21:41.260 And so at least that part of it, we've got locked down.
00:21:45.060 Is there any hope that the prosecutor could change his mind here?
00:21:48.580 It's just such a gross miscarriage of justice.
00:21:51.740 Or is this it?
00:21:53.220 He'll at the very most get a slap on the wrist and then it sends a message to all the other abortion fanatics that, yes, it's open season on pro-life activists.
00:22:03.140 Exactly right.
00:22:03.840 It's possible but unlikely.
00:22:07.000 Wow.
00:22:08.000 Wow.
00:22:08.520 Well, I hope if there is any possibility at all that these charges could be brought up even to 20% of what they ought to be,
00:22:19.040 that really I hope that there's enough political pressure from this prosecutor's constituents and from other people around the state who can push for that.
00:22:29.660 And Joanne, obviously wishing you the strongest recovery that you can possibly have.
00:22:35.820 Is there any place I can direct our listeners to go to to support your work, any sort of legal efforts?
00:22:45.540 Steve, you mentioned the legal center that is fighting on behalf of these sorts of causes.
00:22:51.000 Yeah.
00:22:51.340 If anyone's interested, please go to Great Lakes Justice Center or it's greatlakesjc.org.
00:22:57.140 And right on there we have our fact sheet and issue briefs about Proposal 3 if people want more information.
00:23:02.100 Or they also have Michigan Right to Life.
00:23:03.700 That's a great site, too, to learn more information.
00:23:06.460 Great Lakes Justice Center.
00:23:07.680 That's wonderful.
00:23:08.560 And Joanne, are there people coming over bringing you food or anything or sort of taking care of you?
00:23:15.080 Yes, outpouring from my pro-life friends, yes.
00:23:18.660 Wonderful.
00:23:20.040 And from Heritage Convention.
00:23:21.780 Good.
00:23:22.140 I'm very glad to hear that.
00:23:23.620 You certainly, listen, call me old-fashioned.
00:23:26.740 I think at the age of 84, people ought to be taking care of you just generally.
00:23:32.540 But especially when you're recovering from being shot by an insane pro-abortion lunatic.
00:23:37.860 I think, you know, a couple of casseroles to the house would be certainly a very nice thing to do.
00:23:42.500 Joanne.
00:23:43.500 Yeah.
00:23:44.540 Muffin.
00:23:46.160 I was very appreciative.
00:23:48.800 Well, that's wonderful.
00:23:49.700 And I got to tell you, Joanne, I would be looking a lot worse if I were in your position, even at my age of 32.
00:23:56.920 I think you put Lady Thatcher to shame, frankly.
00:24:02.900 I think you are one tough lady, Joanne.
00:24:05.560 So it's wonderful.
00:24:06.260 And thank you for standing up for the truth and having the courage to go out and canvass and persuade your fellow citizens and risk the dangers that come, not just from, you know, people worry about being canceled on social media or being censored, but you're facing actual physical risk in doing it.
00:24:23.220 Just doing God's work, Joanne.
00:24:24.840 Wonderful, wonderful stuff.
00:24:26.500 And thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:24:28.960 Thanks for letting me tell my story.
00:24:31.160 Thanks for having us.
00:24:31.820 We appreciate it.
00:24:32.640 Absolutely.
00:24:33.040 Absolutely.
00:24:33.180 Absolutely.
00:24:33.200 Absolutely.
00:24:33.220 Absolutely.
00:24:36.260 Thank you.