The Michael Knowles Show - September 12, 2018


Ep. 216 - The Virtue Of Nationalism


Episode Stats


Length

46 minutes

Words per minute

169.08284

Word count

7,931

Sentence count

608

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

24

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

The left is going after Norm Macdonald before his new Netflix show even airs and they are already trying to get him. Why? Because he's not politically correct like they want him to be. And they don't like him.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 The humorless left is now so trigger-happy, they are attacking things that have not even happened yet.
00:00:05.780 We will analyze the hysteria that is ripping America apart.
00:00:09.660 Yoram Hassani will then explain how to bring our nation back together in his book, The Virtue of Nationalism.
00:00:15.380 Then a new poll shows Americans no longer care if political candidates are religious,
00:00:20.260 while Pope Francis blames the devil for exposing the corruption of bishops.
00:00:24.720 Hmm, I wonder if one has to do with the other one.
00:00:26.620 All that and much more. I'm Michael Knowles, and this is The Michael Knowles Show.
00:00:30.000 The left is going after Norm Macdonald before Norm Macdonald's show even airs.
00:00:42.540 We will talk about that and explain why, but first I need to thank a wonderful sponsor.
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00:02:14.280 So they're going after Norm MacDonald.
00:02:15.860 You know, I've referred to Norm on this show before.
00:02:17.960 He's my favorite living comedian.
00:02:19.500 I know he's the favorite comedian of a lot of people out there, too.
00:02:22.680 And, you know, you can go down a YouTube wormhole of all the Norm clips.
00:02:26.020 And the reason we're talking about Norm now is he's getting a show on Netflix
00:02:28.480 in, I think, two or three days.
00:02:31.060 I think it's airing either this week or next week.
00:02:33.460 And so the left is already trying to get him.
00:02:36.400 Now, Norm, it's not like he's some Brooks Brothers wearing conservative.
00:02:40.640 It's not like, you know, he's this right-wing apologist or something.
00:02:45.600 He's just not politically correct.
00:02:47.180 And he's a comedian who cares about actually making people laugh.
00:02:50.300 Unlike Nanette.
00:02:51.480 Unlike Kathy Griffin.
00:02:52.740 Unlike people who, they go for claps and not laughs.
00:02:55.000 Norm actually goes for laughs.
00:02:56.480 And so they're so angry at him because he isn't politically correct.
00:03:00.580 Because he isn't making jokes about Trump.
00:03:02.080 Because jokes about Trump are super duper lame.
00:03:04.800 He did this interview yesterday or two days ago with The Hollywood Reporter
00:03:08.280 where he was asked, what do you think about Roseanne Barr and Louis C.K.?
00:03:12.980 Both of whom are friends of his going back decades, I believe.
00:03:16.560 And he said, well, you know, they were really broken up about the whole thing.
00:03:19.340 And they're really sorry.
00:03:20.320 And I'm glad to see them back on their feet.
00:03:22.700 Something to that effect.
00:03:23.800 And they are pillorying him for this.
00:03:26.100 He made a comment.
00:03:26.940 He said that the Me Too movement got a little bit crazy.
00:03:29.760 And so he's glad that there's some balance.
00:03:31.360 You know, because of their, look, there are false accusations.
00:03:34.100 Some of the people who were accusers are now being accused of sexual harassment themselves.
00:03:37.640 Some of the people who were accusers, details have come out where they were in consensual relationships,
00:03:43.620 not non-consensual relationships.
00:03:45.380 So he's just pointing out that it maybe got a little out of hand.
00:03:48.060 And he's glad that it's not as crazy as it was before.
00:03:51.200 He is being raked over the coals.
00:03:53.560 They're already trying to cancel his show.
00:03:55.520 There were actually people tweeting who said, I hate his show.
00:03:58.320 It's boring and terrible.
00:03:59.340 The show hasn't premiered yet.
00:04:01.360 And all, look, I like Norm, so I want to defend his show.
00:04:04.840 And I look forward to watching the show.
00:04:06.260 But what this is really about is all of the hysteria that is gripping all of America.
00:04:12.480 We're all so trigger happy.
00:04:13.720 For those of you who are not familiar with Norm, just to give you a little context,
00:04:16.740 here is a joke he did on David Letterman's last show.
00:04:20.160 I think you'll understand why he's such a favorite on this program here.
00:04:23.980 There is one country that worries me, though.
00:04:27.560 Not Iraq, not Iran, not North Korea.
00:04:30.220 The only country that really worries me is the country of Germany.
00:04:35.440 I don't know if you guys are history buffs or not, but...
00:04:38.380 In the early part of the previous century, Germany decided to go to war.
00:04:50.280 And who did they go to war with?
00:04:52.800 The world.
00:04:56.540 It had never been tried before.
00:04:58.300 And so you figure that would take about five seconds for the world to win.
00:05:04.560 But no, it was actually close.
00:05:13.700 Then about 30 years pass, and Germany decides again to go to war.
00:05:20.800 And again, it chooses as its enemy, the world.
00:05:28.280 And this time, they have that guy, scrankly, scrankly, that guy.
00:05:32.320 I'm not even going to dignify him by saying his name, but I think you know I'm done.
00:05:41.580 But you'd think at that point, the world would go, listen, Germany, here's the deal.
00:05:46.440 You don't get to be a country no more.
00:05:48.140 On account of you keep attacking the world.
00:05:55.780 So you get the sense.
00:06:02.040 We've talked about similar things before on this show.
00:06:05.120 With due respect to our German viewers and listeners.
00:06:08.600 So anyway, the left is very upset because he's not being mean to Trump.
00:06:13.820 Or he's not telling this joke or that joke.
00:06:15.600 He's actually telling jokes just that are funny, you know.
00:06:17.760 And that you're not allowed to do that anymore.
00:06:19.400 We're in the net comedy world now.
00:06:21.340 So Norm actually was booted from the Jimmy Kimmel show because of this non-troversy.
00:06:28.140 This is the stupidest non-troversy since the Mark Duplass thing.
00:06:31.400 You remember the whole Mark Duplass?
00:06:32.780 He said, oh, I kind of like Ben Shapiro.
00:06:34.560 Now his whole career is ruined.
00:06:36.200 This is the stupidest non-troversy since then.
00:06:38.680 Jimmy Kimmel goes up to Norm Macdonald and says, you can't come on the show because you said that you're still sort of like Roseanne Barr.
00:06:44.160 And you're still sort of like Louis C.K.
00:06:46.300 My producers are crying because of your comments.
00:06:50.420 My producers are crying.
00:06:52.240 Millennials in the workforce, folks.
00:06:54.260 Safe spaces at the Tonight Show.
00:06:56.420 By the way, I will actually give it to those millennial producers.
00:06:59.200 Certainly.
00:06:59.800 They're undoubtedly millennial producers because they were able to negotiate in warm milk and pacifiers into their nightly contracts. 0.69
00:07:06.920 So great.
00:07:07.500 Good work.
00:07:08.180 I mean, that's the art of the deal right there.
00:07:10.140 Oh, Jimmy Fallon.
00:07:10.900 I'm sorry.
00:07:11.320 It was Jimmy Fallon, not Jimmy Kimmel.
00:07:13.220 It's really sad because those two guys used to be different people.
00:07:16.440 One was the crazy lefty.
00:07:17.820 One was just, you know, sort of having fun.
00:07:19.760 And now, unfortunately, it looks like Jimmy Fallon is falling into that left-wing claptrap, too.
00:07:24.440 Easily confused, though.
00:07:26.140 Sorry to say that.
00:07:27.420 It's all of this trigger-happy hysteria.
00:07:29.860 Producers shouldn't be crying because of a common-sense observation.
00:07:34.040 People in show business is a horrible industry.
00:07:36.160 And we know that this town is rife with emotional, physical, and sexual abuse.
00:07:40.820 And they're crying because a guy made a normal observation.
00:07:45.680 This, we're so, the left is being hysterical.
00:07:48.700 That's what this is.
00:07:49.300 That's the only way to describe it.
00:07:50.620 It is hysteria.
00:07:51.560 Get a hold of yourself, people.
00:07:53.200 Get a hold of yourself.
00:07:54.760 People should calm down.
00:07:56.260 This is, you know, I think this is all Trump's fault.
00:07:59.580 This obviously is all Trump's fault.
00:08:00.640 Because when Trump was elected, everyone was told the world was going to go to hell in a handbasket.
00:08:04.800 And then, he was president for two years now, and everything is going fine.
00:08:10.260 Now, common sense, your gut instinct would tell you, this would make people change their mind.
00:08:15.820 Everyone would calm down because of this.
00:08:17.380 But that's not how people work in real life.
00:08:19.460 What actually happens when they're all, they're totally hysterical, they're expecting the worst,
00:08:23.300 something good happens, they ignore the reality and double down on their prejudice.
00:08:28.640 They double down, so they say, well, but Trump is president, so things can't be going well,
00:08:33.520 so it's really awful, so blah, blah, blah.
00:08:34.840 And that's why they're getting crazier and crazier.
00:08:36.640 As the economy improves, as the jobless numbers go down, as the world is at peace, relative peace,
00:08:43.580 they're not getting happier, they're getting crazier.
00:08:45.940 This is how conspiracy theories work.
00:08:47.920 When a guy has a conspiracy theory, and then you point out the holes in his conspiracy theory,
00:08:53.040 he doesn't stop believing in conspiracy.
00:08:55.000 He just thinks you're part of the conspiracy.
00:08:56.600 He gets even wilder.
00:08:58.880 So you saw this morning Joe humiliated himself yesterday.
00:09:01.980 It was a despicable column on 9-11.
00:09:03.880 He said that Donald Trump is worse than 9-11.
00:09:06.080 Worse than 9-11.
00:09:07.060 He said, quote,
00:09:07.960 For those of us still believing that Islamic extremists hate America because of the freedoms we guarantee to all people,
00:09:13.340 the gravest threat Trump poses to our national security is the damage done daily to America's image.
00:09:18.100 As the New York Times' Roger Cohen wrote the month after Trump's election,
00:09:23.320 America is an idea. 0.89
00:09:24.820 Strip away freedom, human rights, democracy, the rule of law from what the United States represents to the world,
00:09:29.840 and America itself is gutted.
00:09:32.000 America is gutted under Donald Trump, according to Morning Joe and some dumb-dumb over at the New York Times.
00:09:36.980 First of all, America is not just an idea.
00:09:39.360 America is a country founded in part on ideas and on a tradition,
00:09:42.980 in a land at a particular time with particular people.
00:09:46.380 So it's not just an idea.
00:09:47.420 It doesn't float in this rationalist, ethereal cloud.
00:09:50.440 It's a real place.
00:09:51.160 It's a country.
00:09:51.760 It's a nation, which we're going to be talking about in a little bit.
00:09:54.140 But also, does anybody believe that Donald Trump has stripped America of freedom, human rights, democracy?
00:10:01.740 No, the left wanted to strip America of democracy.
00:10:04.200 They wanted to overturn.
00:10:05.280 They still want to overturn a presidential election.
00:10:07.900 But Donald Trump has only increased the freedom experienced by Americans,
00:10:11.540 deregulated the government, let Americans keep more of their money.
00:10:15.180 Is America gutted?
00:10:16.280 Of course not.
00:10:17.160 But they can't admit this because they were so wrong in their predictions.
00:10:20.460 They can't admit it.
00:10:21.220 So they have to get crazier.
00:10:23.280 Morning Joe called Trump a politician who has done more damage to the dream of America
00:10:27.980 than any foreign adversary ever could.
00:10:29.980 Donald Trump worse than Pearl Harbor, I guess.
00:10:33.100 Worse than blowing up the harbor, killing all those Americans. 1.00
00:10:35.720 Worse than killing 3,000 Americans.
00:10:37.280 Do you really believe that?
00:10:38.180 Maybe he does, but what a morally idiotic fool, if that's what he really believes.
00:10:44.200 Jeff Bennett at NBC, the White House correspondent, tweeted out, he said, quote,
00:10:49.360 Trump in Shanksville talks to U.S. troops fighting the menace of radical Islamic terrorism,
00:10:56.080 a controversial campaign catchphrase that he didn't use last year.
00:11:00.540 A controversial catchphrase.
00:11:02.420 Radical Islamic terrorism is a controversial catchphrase?
00:11:05.760 Controversial to whom?
00:11:07.280 It's just reality.
00:11:08.620 It just describes it.
00:11:09.720 But NBC can't admit the reality because for years and years, Barack Obama wouldn't use
00:11:14.140 the term.
00:11:15.280 The Democrats wouldn't use the term.
00:11:17.180 But it turns out the enemy that we're fighting are radical Islamic terrorists.
00:11:22.380 They're not moderate.
00:11:23.960 So they're not moderate.
00:11:24.940 They're radical.
00:11:25.620 They're not Methodist.
00:11:27.000 They're Islamic.
00:11:28.140 And they're not legal participants in war.
00:11:30.100 They're terrorists.
00:11:30.940 They're radical Islamic terrorists. 0.91
00:11:32.560 That's not a controversial catchphrase.
00:11:34.160 That's just a basic description of who they are.
00:11:37.480 But as we've seen this time and time again, 65 terrorist attacks in Europe in just the
00:11:41.700 last four years.
00:11:42.640 As we've seen it time and time again, a stabbing seems to be happening every month or so in
00:11:47.840 Europe.
00:11:48.440 We've had seven, I think it was seven, might have been nine terrorist attacks since 2001
00:11:52.220 in the United States.
00:11:53.060 We can't, the more that we see the evidence, the more that we see who this is, the more
00:11:58.800 the left is going to double down and pretend that it isn't happening.
00:12:01.660 This is very important because this hysteria seems to be ripping the country apart.
00:12:07.080 People have always been a little hysterical.
00:12:08.800 They referred to Ronald Reagan as a Nazi, as the election of Hitler.
00:12:12.760 Everything they said about Trump, they said about Ronald Reagan.
00:12:15.540 But now because of social media, this is sort of the downside of social media, it seems
00:12:19.960 like it's so much louder that it's happening in a different way.
00:12:23.220 It does appear to be tearing the country apart.
00:12:25.540 Morning Joe talking about America being gutted.
00:12:28.020 Fortunately, we have an expert, Yoram Hazani, who wrote this great book, The Virtue of Nationalism.
00:12:32.640 But first, I need to invite you into my boudoir.
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00:12:37.020 It's okay.
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00:13:26.900 And it sleeps really cool.
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00:14:01.240 Wow, that's really good.
00:14:02.220 Now we're going to share that together too.
00:14:03.800 You're going to think of me every time you lie down on your bed.
00:14:06.460 Here is Dr. Hazani.
00:14:08.860 Dr. Hazani, thank you so much for being here.
00:14:11.840 Thanks for having me.
00:14:12.840 I have told you already extensively how much I love this book.
00:14:18.040 It is so good.
00:14:19.220 It is an argument that you don't see people make.
00:14:21.760 It is totally politically incorrect.
00:14:24.480 It is a vigorous defense of nationalism.
00:14:27.920 We've heard in the conservative movement for years and years, even on the right, that nationalism is a bad word.
00:14:34.660 Bill Buckley would always say,
00:14:36.160 I love patriotism, but I hate nationalism, as though there were some distinction between the two, which I can't figure out.
00:14:42.660 What is the, you know, in five words or less, you know, in 20 seconds here, what is the argument for nationalism?
00:14:51.980 The simplest argument is, is the world better off if it's governed by a diversity of independent nations, each one with its own different customs and traditions in constitutional and religious issues,
00:15:08.060 is each one an experiment in what it is for human societies to live, is that better?
00:15:16.340 Or should we go for some kind of centralized rules-based order that somebody is going to decide about and then impose on the rest of the world?
00:15:26.900 Well, what is amazing in the book is it's a simple premise, which is that there are two orders of the world.
00:15:42.260 You can have an imperial order, the order of empire, or you can have a national order.
00:15:46.440 You trace that national order all the way back to the Bible, and you trace the imperial order all the way up to institutions that we don't even think of necessarily as imperial.
00:15:55.940 The European Union, the United Nations, all of these supranational organizations.
00:16:01.400 Why is it that the progressives seem to be advocating for empire, and how is the EU no different than the empires of antiquity?
00:16:10.860 Well, as far as the progressives, don't forget that Marxism was a clearly imperial universalist ideology that sought to conquer the whole world
00:16:23.280 and get everybody to live according to a single theory.
00:16:27.540 So the fact that progressives continue to believe in something like that isn't terribly surprising.
00:16:34.280 It's maybe a little bit more surprising to find people who are liberals or classical liberals,
00:16:40.980 who are for a very long time allied with conservatism even today,
00:16:46.200 also advocating some kind of let's tear down all the borders and impose a single regime.
00:16:54.020 I think for me that's personally more surprising.
00:16:57.240 Well, it's interesting too from your vantage in Israel, because Israel comes out, is born out of the Second World War,
00:17:04.720 a nation for the Jewish people, and now, not shortly after the end of the Second World War,
00:17:11.520 we saw that nationalism was being blamed for the Nazis.
00:17:16.160 It was about nationalist expansion and nationalist hatred and nationalist fervor,
00:17:21.920 and that's why we all decided we have to totally get rid of nationalism and become one big kumbaya community of people across the earth.
00:17:32.400 You say that this argument and this common knowledge that we have is totally ridiculous. How so?
00:17:38.260 Well, it's not totally ridiculous. It's just mostly wrong.
00:17:41.160 I mean, look, if you read about the policies of somebody like Dwight Eisenhower,
00:17:49.780 Dwight Eisenhower, his foreign policy was based on fighting imperialism and supporting nationalism
00:17:57.440 because he believed in the self-determination of peoples.
00:18:00.740 And you can name lots of others on the left and on the right.
00:18:04.040 I mean, Woodrow Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt in his later years, De Gaulle, Thatcher, Gandhi, David Ben-Gurion.
00:18:13.260 I mean, so many people who are revered heroic figures politically and intellectually
00:18:21.980 subscribed to one version or another of a nationalist world order
00:18:28.600 that it really takes just an extraordinary degree of ignorance to just blame all of that,
00:18:39.440 say all of that is like Nazism.
00:18:42.660 And I just want to say that the people saying this obviously have,
00:18:48.300 I mean, I don't recommend that people actually read Mein Kampf,
00:18:51.040 but if you're going to talk about this, it's not fun to read,
00:18:54.240 but if you're going to talk about the subject, it's worth actually looking at what the Nazis believed.
00:18:59.700 The Nazis were, from the first moment, an imperialist movement whose goal was, as Hitler wrote,
00:19:08.940 to make Germany the mistress of the globe and the lord of the earth. 0.77
00:19:16.560 His goal was to overthrow the order of national states, which he viewed as corrupt and contemptuous.
00:19:27.660 Well, I wonder when we look at these historical examples, even in our present time,
00:19:33.260 why is it that the international community, the empire builders,
00:19:37.840 the advocates of the European Union and the advocates of the United Nations or whatever,
00:19:42.600 they seem to support nationalism for certain countries, but not other countries.
00:19:47.220 They seem to support nationalism in other areas of the world, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, parts of Africa,
00:19:53.680 but then they want to break down borders in Europe and the United States and in Israel.
00:20:00.040 Why is that? Why do these different countries seem to be treated differently?
00:20:04.460 You're absolutely right.
00:20:05.880 And the answer is because this internationalist worldview in both its progressive and its liberal forms
00:20:15.460 is descended from an Enlightenment theory of history, which goes, an excellent example is Kant,
00:20:24.780 which says that first a society is tribal and barbaric and everybody's killing one another.
00:20:33.080 Then tribes gather to unite under a law as a nation, as a national state, and then they only kill the other nations. 0.75
00:20:44.980 And then finally, you reach moral maturity.
00:20:47.920 That's what Kant calls it, moral maturity when you realize that you need to take down all the borders
00:20:52.440 and unite in one international state to cover everything.
00:20:56.560 And what's happening is that the progressives and liberals who support this kind of movement,
00:21:05.460 they look at the third world or Islamic countries or Southeast Asia, the countries that you're naming,
00:21:13.140 and they say, oh, those are just, you know, they're primitives, they're barbarians.
00:21:16.620 They haven't reached the level of moral maturity that we've reached.
00:21:20.580 But if anyone steps out of line among the descendants of European peoples, you know, that could be the UK with Brexit,
00:21:33.580 or it could be Israel or the Trump movement in America or Poland or Italy.
00:21:39.420 The moment you step out of line, if you're descended from, you know, some kind of European background,
00:21:45.000 then you're attacked as a traitor, as a traitor to the moral maturity that Europeans are supposed to have reached.
00:21:53.700 That's right.
00:21:54.480 And one of the ironies that you explain in the book is truly one of the enduring historical lessons,
00:22:00.040 which is that the Jews can't catch a break. 0.52
00:22:02.180 And so within 50 years of the foundation of the Jewish state of Israel,
00:22:06.560 you've got the people who helped found it say, okay, pish posh, let's drop those borders now.
00:22:11.720 Let's be, oh, let's be nice. Let's have a nice international community or whatever.
00:22:16.920 How did that change so quickly?
00:22:18.920 You know, in the, as you write about in the Bible, the Jews are called out to be a nation,
00:22:24.520 not to be an empire, but to be a nation.
00:22:26.940 And they get this nation state in the aftermath of the Second World War.
00:22:31.480 But now all of a sudden, Israel is under attack on every college campus in America, all over the world.
00:22:36.740 People are boycotting Israel.
00:22:38.440 What is that about?
00:22:39.320 Well, there was a mistake that the Americans and the British after World War II,
00:22:46.620 I think originally wanted to see a European Union because they were trying to build up
00:22:56.300 a strong continental resistance to Soviet expansionism.
00:23:01.660 But I think that that was just a terrible mistake.
00:23:05.980 And what happened is that Adenauer and the other founders of the European community
00:23:14.600 just unleashed this vision of claiming that independence of nations is the cause of warfare
00:23:25.800 and therefore the root of all evil.
00:23:29.180 And that argument, I guess, had tremendous emotional traction after World War II among liberals and Marxists.
00:23:41.060 And since, you know, as you know, the universities and the media are very, very sympathetic to these kinds of arguments.
00:23:52.480 And so, I mean, they've been educating an entire, it's now two or three generations,
00:23:59.020 first of Europeans and now of Americans, to the idea that national independence is actually the source of evil
00:24:06.600 and that concentration of power in the hands of international bodies is the solution to it.
00:24:15.980 I want to know, as we're talking about concentrations of power, and you make it pretty clear in the book,
00:24:24.080 there seems to be a spectrum here between anarchy, chaos, you know, the kind of fever dream of libertarians,
00:24:31.860 maybe in the American right, and empire, the imperial order.
00:24:36.640 And then the nation, nationalism, is somewhere in the middle of that.
00:24:41.180 How do you arrive at that?
00:24:42.520 We hear nationalism bandied about by everybody from good conservative Americans to wacko white supremacists.
00:24:50.740 Where, what is the nation and what makes nationalism work?
00:24:55.320 Why is that the best order for nations?
00:24:58.500 Well, the nation, when I use the term nation, I'm using it in a traditional way,
00:25:06.540 according to the Anglo-American political tradition, which is rooted, as you say, in scripture, especially in the Hebrew Bible.
00:25:15.380 So if you take, let's say, the King James Bible, and you look up the way the word nation is used in the King James Bible,
00:25:23.940 then you'll get a really good idea of what it is that shaped the English, Scottish, Dutch, American conception of a nation.
00:25:35.460 It's based on the diversity and unification of the ancient Israelite tribes in the Bible.
00:25:43.800 But at the same time, it's not based on race in any way.
00:25:48.760 And we know that because when the Israelites leave Egypt, we're told that Egyptians joined them and stood at the foot of Mount Sinai
00:25:57.980 and received the Ten Commandments and joined the Jewish people.
00:26:00.740 Or that Ruth the Moabite, even though she's a Moabite, she comes over to Israel and she embraces,
00:26:10.120 she says, your people will be my people and your God will be my God.
00:26:14.380 And when she adopts that mutual loyalty with the faith of the Jewish people and belief in its God,
00:26:22.080 then she becomes a part of the Jewish people, right?
00:26:25.960 So the biblical concept of a nation is not based on race at all.
00:26:33.080 It's a unification of a number of tribes that are diverse internally,
00:26:39.720 but at the same time, share some kind of basic cultural inheritance around which they can unite,
00:26:48.140 which is usually a language, a religion, a legal system, and so on.
00:26:53.320 Well, that is such a wonderful clarification because I'm reading it and I'm thinking,
00:26:59.600 this is the best defense of nationalism I've heard.
00:27:02.200 This is a very compelling argument.
00:27:05.000 And yet, I wondered where these, you know, they call themselves white nationalists fit into it
00:27:10.700 because I've always found their arguments to be weak, to put it charitably, to not be very compelling at all.
00:27:17.560 And it's just a misunderstanding, it seems, by these various 20 racists who exist in America,
00:27:24.440 a misunderstanding of what the nation is, what the nation has meant throughout history, throughout all of history.
00:27:28.680 Well, white racism, white nationalism is an oxymoron.
00:27:34.480 I mean, you can't have a white nation. 0.97
00:27:37.760 I mean, there is no white nation.
00:27:39.260 There's historically never been such a thing as a group of people who are the whites and they are a nation.
00:27:47.520 So the whole argument, the biblical and Anglo-American argument is based on the assumption
00:27:54.500 that nations are not some kind of fantasy that somebody came up.
00:27:58.440 You can't just say, oh, people with blue eyes, they're a nation.
00:28:03.960 There's an actual historical thing that is a nation.
00:28:06.740 The French are a nation.
00:28:07.740 The Dutch are a nation.
00:28:08.760 The English are a nation.
00:28:09.880 And so on.
00:28:10.900 And you can argue on the margins about whether some group or another qualifies.
00:28:16.440 But the fact that there are nations and that they're distinct from one another
00:28:19.740 and that they're internally cohesive,
00:28:21.300 and that's an empirical fact.
00:28:25.220 Now, the question that you asked before about why is this a good way to organize the political order?
00:28:34.660 So the argument that I make in the book is that a national form of political organization
00:28:44.700 where nations are independent, that it sits roughly halfway between conditions of anarchy
00:28:52.840 where, you know, like every family or every clan is independent
00:28:57.040 and they're all at war with one another.
00:28:59.880 And at the other extreme, a universal vision where the goal is for the whole world
00:29:05.140 as much as possible to be brought under a single legal and political regime.
00:29:11.060 And what the idea of independent nations, what it does is it tries to strike a balance
00:29:20.020 between the two, which is obviously difficult to maintain.
00:29:23.540 But it tries at the same time both to embrace the value of particularity,
00:29:33.560 of particularism, of diversity, that different nations are different from one another
00:29:38.040 and the competition among nations is in fact what advances us towards innovation
00:29:44.780 and advancement in politics and religion, science, the arts.
00:29:51.520 So that's on the one hand.
00:29:52.980 On the other hand, the national state does resemble international empire
00:30:00.340 in that what it does is it unifies a very large group of people
00:30:04.260 and drives warfare to the periphery of life. 0.97
00:30:10.200 So it creates an internal sphere of peace and prosperity.
00:30:14.100 The difference between empire and national independence is that the nationalist,
00:30:20.780 when he's behaving himself at least,
00:30:22.920 is looking to take care of his own nation
00:30:27.340 and actually sees it as a tremendous waste of resources
00:30:32.060 to fight an unending war at the other side of the world
00:30:36.380 to conquer all sorts of other peoples which you then don't know how to govern.
00:30:40.520 Right.
00:30:42.020 This is something I've always loved about your writing, even beyond the book.
00:30:46.440 I'll let you go because I know you're very busy in doing the book tour right now.
00:30:49.840 But something I love about it is you make conservative arguments.
00:30:53.860 You don't make liberal arguments as a conservative.
00:30:56.920 You don't say, I'm a conservative because I'm a liberal.
00:30:59.100 You make conservative arguments and it's not just pie in the sky.
00:31:02.620 We're talking about real facts and things that are demonstrable in history
00:31:07.440 and therefore demonstrable in the way that we should order our nations
00:31:11.140 and order our world.
00:31:12.680 And one of those facts is the nation.
00:31:14.180 It's a terribly compelling argument.
00:31:15.980 You have to go read it.
00:31:17.120 I encourage everybody to go read it.
00:31:18.340 The Virtue of Nationalism by Dr. Yoram Hazani.
00:31:21.700 Dr. Hazani, thank you so much for being here.
00:31:24.300 Sure.
00:31:24.720 Thanks for having me.
00:31:25.920 So much more to get to today.
00:31:28.260 I'm sorry, though, if you're on Facebook and YouTube.
00:31:30.160 How'd you do it?
00:31:30.920 How'd you manage to stay on and not get kicked off?
00:31:33.000 If you're not, if you're on dailywire.com, thank you very much.
00:31:35.540 You help us keep the lights on and covfefe in my Tumblr.
00:31:39.160 But if you're not, sign up.
00:31:40.900 It's $10 a month, $100 for an annual membership.
00:31:42.860 You get me, Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, Matt Walsh, questions in the conversation,
00:31:47.760 questions in the mailbag that's coming up tomorrow.
00:31:49.560 Get your questions in.
00:31:50.240 None of that matters.
00:31:51.140 This is what matters.
00:31:52.380 The Kathy Griffin Tears Tumblr.
00:31:55.460 Is that where we're starting that new vintage?
00:31:57.280 I'm in a Twitter fight right now with Kathy Griffin because she always gets really angry with me. 0.99
00:32:03.120 And she said, like, F you, Michael Knowles, all you Daily Wire idiots don't know that comedy is subjective.
00:32:10.400 Which is very funny because then she's angry with us because we subjectively think she isn't funny.
00:32:14.740 Maybe objectively think it.
00:32:16.280 Either way, it's led to an overflow of Kathy Griffin Tears.
00:32:18.880 Make sure you get your Tumblr or you're going to drown.
00:32:21.520 The only reason that this studio isn't underwater right now is because we have the Tumblr.
00:32:25.480 It's the FDA-approved vessel.
00:32:26.920 Go to dailywire.com.
00:32:28.200 We'll be right back.
00:32:33.120 All right.
00:32:39.660 We have some bad election news today.
00:32:42.320 Not for the midterm elections.
00:32:43.680 That I'm not convinced about.
00:32:45.140 They're saying that the midterm generic ballot is terrible for Republicans.
00:32:49.560 But they always tell us this.
00:32:50.760 They always say, oh, Republicans don't even go out to vote.
00:32:52.820 There's no reason for you even to go vote because you're going to do so bad.
00:32:56.540 And then we win.
00:32:57.360 So I don't really believe that.
00:32:59.540 Also because there's no such thing as a generic congressional candidate.
00:33:03.720 There's no...
00:33:04.340 And when you talk about these national polls, giant blue states like California end up giving
00:33:09.020 the Democrats a disproportionate representation in these polls.
00:33:12.100 So I'm not that concerned about that.
00:33:13.600 What I am concerned about is a poll that came out today from the Associated Press, which
00:33:17.560 is that only 25% of Americans think it is very important for their political candidates
00:33:23.980 to have religious faith.
00:33:25.660 And this is a major low.
00:33:27.400 Only 25%.
00:33:28.360 Some more people think it's moderately important.
00:33:30.340 But this is a big low.
00:33:31.720 And it tells us a lot about the miseducation of millennials.
00:33:35.200 And it tells us a lot about the cracking up of institutions like mainstream, mainline
00:33:40.240 Protestantism, and I'm sorry to say Catholicism in America. 0.91
00:33:43.360 So you've got to look at these numbers.
00:33:44.880 Because when you dig into this poll from the AP, you learn about the political views and
00:33:49.640 the views of candidates.
00:33:50.620 But there's another poll from Pew that came out a little while ago that shows that the lion's
00:33:54.880 share of millennials are religiously unaffiliated.
00:33:58.240 They're not Protestant.
00:33:59.160 They're not evangelical.
00:33:59.960 They're not Catholic.
00:34:00.660 They're not Buddhist.
00:34:02.260 They're not whatever.
00:34:03.360 They're religiously unaffiliated.
00:34:05.640 This number is double.
00:34:07.680 That's that number for their parents' generation.
00:34:10.180 And it's triple that of their grandparents' generation.
00:34:12.820 Really scary number.
00:34:14.120 Now, why is it scary?
00:34:16.100 Well, John Adams said that the American Constitution was built for a moral and religious people and
00:34:21.520 that it's unfit for the governance of anyone else.
00:34:23.480 That's because it's a government that allows you to be free.
00:34:26.620 But the only way that you're allowed to be free, the only way that you can govern yourself
00:34:29.540 is if you have virtue, if you have discipline, if you have a religious foundation that inculcates
00:34:34.480 those virtues and that moral law into you and gives you a view of what the purpose of your
00:34:39.260 freedom is.
00:34:40.340 If you don't have that, you're just going to descend into libertine nonsense and not be
00:34:45.060 able to control yourself.
00:34:45.920 We look around and, you know, we've got a burning man culture, basically. 0.71
00:34:49.860 It's descended into chaos and it'll only get worse if you can't control yourself.
00:34:53.480 If you can't discipline yourself, the government is going to discipline you because you're
00:34:57.580 not capable of your own freedom.
00:34:59.300 You're not capable of governing yourself.
00:35:01.580 I don't totally blame millennials for this, though, because they've just been miseducated. 0.91
00:35:06.060 I don't think that the lion's share of millennials have tried Christianity and found it to be
00:35:11.220 wanting.
00:35:12.080 I think they haven't learned anything about Christianity at all.
00:35:15.020 I think they haven't been raised with very much religion at all.
00:35:18.280 And this can be a great opportunity.
00:35:19.720 I mean, look, I was an atheist for 10 years and then it struck me.
00:35:24.660 The intellectual side of it struck me.
00:35:27.120 Later, the spiritual side of it struck me.
00:35:28.860 The historical, the cultural, everything finally hit me and nobody's more enthusiastic than a
00:35:34.920 revert or a convert.
00:35:35.860 So this is a good opportunity, but it requires that we show millennials what they've been missing
00:35:40.680 the whole time.
00:35:41.300 This also shows the breakdown of institutions, of mainline Protestantism and of Catholicism.
00:35:47.900 Because when you dig into that AP poll, you'll see that among white evangelical Protestants,
00:35:53.860 the majority of them still believe it is extremely or very important that a candidate has strong
00:35:59.400 religious beliefs.
00:36:01.020 So it's still the majority of white evangelical Protestants.
00:36:02.980 And it's not a racial thing because even among non-white evangelical Protestants, almost 50%,
00:36:07.880 47% believe the same thing, that it's extremely or very important that candidates for public
00:36:12.900 office have deeply held religious views.
00:36:15.240 When you get down to Catholics, that number drops in half to 25%.
00:36:19.060 When you get down to mainline Protestants, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, whatever,
00:36:23.740 it drops even lower to 18%.
00:36:25.620 Why is that?
00:36:27.160 It's because those institutions have been hollowed out from within in the United States,
00:36:32.060 even the Catholic Church.
00:36:33.260 We're seeing the crack up of the Catholic Church now in the U.S. where bishops have been
00:36:37.640 credibly accused of covering up abuse, not just abuse of kids, but abuse of seminarians,
00:36:44.000 abuse of priests, whole sexual networks within the clergy, and credible allegations from a major
00:36:49.360 archbishop, Archbishop Vigano, the former nuncio to the U.S., accusing Pope Francis of being
00:36:54.800 complicit in some of these cover-ups of priest and seminarian abuse.
00:36:58.800 This is a major issue, but that isn't the whole issue.
00:37:01.600 A lot of the issue is that a lot of churches in America, Catholic churches too, teach weak
00:37:06.780 sauce, weak religion. 1.00
00:37:08.820 There was a theologian in the 20th century, I forget his name, who said, I forget which
00:37:13.360 one it was, who said that most of the sermons that he heard on Sundays amounted to, I might
00:37:19.580 suggest that you try to be good.
00:37:21.440 That's the homily.
00:37:22.480 That's the sermon.
00:37:23.120 And the same thing, obviously it's much worse among the mainline Protestant churches, which 0.93
00:37:28.000 have totally, they fly PC transgender flags outside.
00:37:33.200 They've adopted the religion of political correctness and the religion of modern leftism.
00:37:39.220 But it's really bad because what you're going to end up with is what Richard Niebuhr, the
00:37:44.460 Christian ethicist, described as a god without wrath leading a people without sin into a kingdom
00:37:50.840 without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a cross.
00:37:54.840 And that is not true religion.
00:37:56.340 And that's not compelling religion.
00:37:57.800 And the pews are going to empty if they try to teach that religion. 1.00
00:38:01.660 The line is that if you marry yourself to the spirit of the age, you're going to find yourself
00:38:05.820 a widow in the next age.
00:38:07.300 And that's what we're seeing.
00:38:08.400 People thought in the Catholic Church after Vatican II, after the traditional liturgy was
00:38:12.920 nixed and they started inviting in all of the acoustic guitars and all of the liturgical
00:38:17.140 craziness, they thought that that would modernize the church, that now we're going to have a
00:38:21.100 huge awakening.
00:38:21.840 What happened?
00:38:22.260 The pews emptied.
00:38:23.320 And what I see from my own vantage as a Catholic is that the traditional liturgies, the Tridentine
00:38:27.540 Mass, the Latin services, those are the ones that are filled up.
00:38:31.200 And when you see it with families, you know, you know how the Catholics feel about babies. 0.92
00:38:35.340 You see like father, mother, kid, kid, kid, kid, kid, kid, kid.
00:38:38.940 They're single-handedly filling up the pews.
00:38:41.180 That is what you need.
00:38:42.480 Either the church is going to be the church or there won't be a church.
00:38:46.400 But it's not going to become something else.
00:38:48.040 It's not going to become the leftist hippy-dippy happy hour.
00:38:52.420 That isn't going to compel people for very long.
00:38:54.800 That is a fad.
00:38:56.260 And this is true if the Catholic Church does it. 0.54
00:38:58.320 It's true if the Methodists do it. 0.94
00:38:59.700 It's true if anybody does it. 0.57
00:39:01.660 And I've really got to give credit where credit is due to evangelical Protestants in America 0.86
00:39:07.140 who are still, in many cases, practicing what they preach.
00:39:11.500 There was a survey out of American Catholics, I think also from Pew, that showed that roughly
00:39:15.860 half of American Catholics support abortion.
00:39:19.000 The church is clear about its teaching on abortion.
00:39:21.920 People should be clear about the teaching on abortion.
00:39:24.040 Abortion ends a human life.
00:39:25.620 Christ is very clear.
00:39:26.460 He says, whatever you do to whoever causes the littlest one to sin, it would be better
00:39:30.320 for that man if he had a millstone tied around his neck and were cast into the bottom of
00:39:34.920 the sea.
00:39:35.920 Whoever harms the least of me, things aren't going to turn out very well for that person.
00:39:40.920 And yet half of American Catholics support abortion.
00:39:43.080 This is insanity.
00:39:44.520 Clearly, they don't believe what they say that they believe.
00:39:48.120 And either those churches are going to be the church and authentically preach the gospel,
00:39:55.580 or they're going to fall apart and fall away.
00:39:57.260 And you're going to get another generation of religiously unaffiliated, and then another 1.00
00:40:01.320 and another until the, to quote, I think it was Pope Benedict, the flames of Christianity 0.97
00:40:07.400 are extinguished throughout the West.
00:40:08.820 That's the direction that we're headed in.
00:40:10.900 And we need some of that old time religion. 0.98
00:40:13.720 Don't try to, I don't think the rock star churches are going to do that.
00:40:17.260 I think you need to authentically preach the gospel, and then you'll get people who are
00:40:21.940 taking their religion seriously.
00:40:23.780 John Adams was not a crazy person.
00:40:26.020 He was not just a product of his time.
00:40:30.180 He was not a guy who thought in a shallow way.
00:40:33.160 He knows that this country, which exalts freedom, which protects freedom, is only built for a moral
00:40:38.860 and religious people, even if you don't consider yourself religious.
00:40:43.020 Give it a second thought.
00:40:44.180 I remember when I was an atheist in college, Ann Coulter, or I would have called myself
00:40:48.960 an atheist.
00:40:49.440 I actually don't believe atheists really even exist.
00:40:51.960 You know, if I don't believe in unicorns, I don't spend all of my life talking about
00:40:55.200 unicorns, so I don't really even believe they exist.
00:40:57.460 But I would have called myself that.
00:40:59.060 And Ann Coulter made this great argument.
00:41:00.780 She said, if all you care about is low taxes, and you've got one guy who's pro-life and one
00:41:06.140 guy who's pro-choice, one guy who's religious, one guy who's irreligious, vote for the guy
00:41:10.460 who's religious, who's pro-life, who has those cultural aspects to his conservatism, he will
00:41:16.140 lower your taxes more.
00:41:18.060 Because there is a coherence to his thought.
00:41:20.400 It's okay if you consider yourself atheist and you want to lower taxes.
00:41:23.620 That's better than being a leftist.
00:41:26.140 But there is a coherence to that thought that you've got to understand.
00:41:29.400 And we get a lot of this out of the framers and the founders of the country.
00:41:34.460 Now, to attack the Catholic Church even more, not really to attack the Church, but to attack 0.60
00:41:41.160 people who are abusing the Church and to attack corruption in the Church, we have heard from
00:41:45.000 Pope Francis, Pope Francis who said, I will not say one word about this scandal.
00:41:49.580 I will not say one word about the accusations credibly made against me.
00:41:53.460 I will not say one word about this.
00:41:54.880 Now he's saying some words.
00:41:56.360 He's saying multiple words.
00:41:57.260 He is now blaming the exposure of this corruption in the bishops and in the clergy, not on the
00:42:05.780 bishops, but on Satan.
00:42:08.360 He's blaming the exposure of that corruption.
00:42:11.580 He's not even blaming the corruption.
00:42:12.860 He's blaming the fact that we now can see it, that light has been shed on this.
00:42:17.120 He's blaming that on Satan.
00:42:18.260 He said, quote, in these times it seems like the great accuser has been unchained and is
00:42:22.060 attacking the bishops.
00:42:23.240 True, we're all sinners, we bishops.
00:42:24.980 He tries to uncover the sins so they are visible in order to scandalize the people.
00:42:30.400 The great accuser, as he himself says to God in the first chapter of the book of Job, roams
00:42:35.240 the earth looking for someone to accuse.
00:42:37.780 A bishop's strength against the great accuser is prayer, that of Jesus and his own, and the
00:42:41.980 humility of being chosen and remaining close to the people of God without seeking an aristocratic
00:42:46.240 life that removes this unction.
00:42:47.580 Let us pray today for our bishops, for me, for those who are here, and for all the bishops
00:42:51.340 throughout the world, every response has been so totally tone deaf, has so totally missed
00:42:58.340 the point.
00:42:59.220 Yes, Satan is the accuser.
00:43:01.260 Satan does accuse people.
00:43:02.340 The trouble with the church right now is not that there's too much shame, that there are
00:43:09.720 too many accusations.
00:43:11.000 The trouble with the church is that there are rotten, corrupt bishops who are covering up
00:43:15.480 for sex abuse for decades, and they're lying through their teeth, and they need to be rooted
00:43:19.860 out because they're a scandal.
00:43:21.820 Christ talks about it.
00:43:23.400 He talks about the millstones.
00:43:25.600 Remember the millstones, people.
00:43:27.320 This is a really, really tone deaf response, and we've heard this before.
00:43:33.860 The last time that Pope Francis responded, after he said he wasn't going to respond, he
00:43:38.520 said that people who are talking about these things should be silent and pray.
00:43:43.240 Yes, people should pray, but he told them to shut up.
00:43:46.580 This is not the right response, and you're going to see those numbers, those religiously 1.00
00:43:50.300 unaffiliated go up and up and up as long as this sort of corruption is being tolerated
00:43:56.280 by the Vatican or by bishops in the United States.
00:43:59.360 Really, really upsetting to see that.
00:44:01.960 But we're running late again.
00:44:03.420 We're always running late.
00:44:05.060 Okay, well, we've got a lot more to talk about, and Attorney General candidate in New
00:44:08.980 York has really, really stepped in it.
00:44:11.900 She's violated the only rule that matters to the left, which if they didn't have double
00:44:16.540 standards would have no standards at all.
00:44:17.920 We'll just have to get to it tomorrow.
00:44:19.220 I want to leave you on this note, however.
00:44:21.140 There was a video that came out yesterday on the anniversary of 9-11.
00:44:25.080 It is perhaps the most American thing I've ever seen.
00:44:29.580 I'll just play it for you right now.
00:44:33.660 Hey, guys.
00:44:34.600 We're out here live on the Highway 10 bridge.
00:44:37.880 I want to show you what's going on here on the bridge.
00:44:41.700 Look what landed on top of the aerial on 9-11.
00:44:47.620 Isn't that unbelievable?
00:44:49.140 This eagle just landed on the aerial.
00:44:59.440 While we're doing the 9-11 memorial, phenomenal.
00:45:06.740 Really incredible.
00:45:07.640 It does make you think about the role of providence in America from the founding of the country,
00:45:11.940 from the Mayflower all the way to the present.
00:45:13.960 There does seem to be a providential hand, even as the religiously unaffiliated increase 1.00
00:45:18.500 and increase and increase.
00:45:19.860 Maybe that should all give us some thought.
00:45:21.940 We've got a lot more to talk about tomorrow.
00:45:23.920 In the meantime, I will see you then.
00:45:25.780 Get your mailbag questions in.
00:45:27.160 I'm Michael Knowles.
00:45:28.100 This is The Michael Knowles Show.
00:45:29.580 I'll see you soon.
00:45:30.040 The Michael Knowles Show is produced by Senia Villareal.
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