00:01:33.000Back in the middle of the 20th century, the big divide on the American right was between the conservatives and the liberal Rockefeller Republicans.
00:01:41.800Then you had the divide between the Reaganites and the Bushies.
00:01:46.040You had the divide between the business Republicans and the more social conservative types.
00:01:51.540In the Tea Party, you saw this come to a head with a divide between the neocons and the paleocon libertarian types.
00:01:59.060Then Trump comes in, brings in this new era of populism.
00:02:03.420And with the rise of the Internet, there seem to be a billion different versions of conservatism.
00:02:09.740You've got everything from classical liberalism to the traditionalists to working class populism all the way.
00:02:17.820When you get all the way to the fringes, you basically get to boxcars.
00:02:20.180So what is the online right really about? I bring in people from all over the spectrum, variations from the mainstream to a little more eccentric. I'm very pleased to welcome Shabbos Kestenbaum, who you know from PragerU and also for suing Harvard, one of my very favorite things that anyone can do.
00:02:42.120We also have Kai Schwemmer, the political director of the College Republicans of America, and we welcome to the show for the first time Jake Monroe, who describes himself on YouTube as, quote, an alt-right nationalist goth YouTuber from the UK fighting the woke matriarchy in alternative subcultures.
00:03:01.120What a log line. Gentlemen, thank you very much for coming on the show.
00:03:06.840I want to jump right in on where the divides really stand, because I referenced boxcars earlier. It's like a slight exaggeration of what you find on X, but you do see like very, very extreme kind of increasingly ethnic and religious tensions on the super online right.
00:03:22.120And in the way that that lands, I think most reasonably in politics is in a divide over foreign policy. But to put it really bluntly, when I was a kid, the Christians generally viewed the Jews as people we generally liked and the Muslims as people we generally were not like not that into because they kept doing it.
00:03:44.540You know, we've been fighting him for like 1400 years.
00:03:46.400And now on the online right, it seems to have flipped a little bit.
00:03:50.260And I don't know, I'm seeing an increasingly kind of Islamophilic move on the right.
00:03:56.080A lot of that is centered around foreign policy and the Gaza war.
00:03:58.840But you get all the way down to not just people who are skeptical of America's relationship with Israel, which is that's been around for a long time.
00:04:06.260But even you even get conservatives who are like pro-Palestine, which that actually kind of blew my mind.
00:04:12.140So let's start out. Let's start out in order. Kai, you're the political director of the College Republicans of America. Am I imagining that? What where the divide on foreign policy, the kind of Islamophilic, even like pro free Palestine stuff. Is that real or is that a shadow on the Internet?
00:04:29.520so i think it's it exists certainly but i actually don't think it it really exists in the more
00:04:37.600authentic parts of the right wing um whether online or or just in you know kind of the youth
00:04:43.020spheres it's certainly not in the college republicans i mean the big thing that i see is
00:04:47.320you have people who kind of co-opt and hijack some things that maybe historically appear right wing
00:04:51.780but they end up not having any kind of ideological um actual consistencies and this is where you get
00:04:58.360people who really just are motivated by the Israel issue, who begin adopting this kind of
00:05:03.480ridiculous view of the world. Like I saw Jake Shields posting the other day, and I made a post
00:05:08.140about it, about like this TikTok edit about how Hitler would have supported Palestine.
00:05:12.860And I think you almost get to the point, right, where there's this mythical vision where it's
00:05:16.560like Hitler would have said BLM and the coalition is all centered around whatever, you know,
00:05:21.880opposes itself to Israel. And that's not a conservative position at all. So I think we're
00:05:25.680going to see a big filtering out of those kind of characters who don't have any kind of conservative
00:05:30.000ideological alignment other than just, you know, maybe disdain for, you know, foreign influence,
00:05:34.860particularly from Israel. But I do think that that question is a legitimate one and certainly
00:05:39.120is increasing, you know, in its importance within sectors of the young right who are asking the
00:05:43.540question, well, what is America? And then to whom does it owe its allegiance? And how is it
00:05:48.600demonstrating that allegiance first to the American people and especially the young people?
00:05:52.360Yeah, I get, you know, there's always been from the beginning of the country,
00:05:55.200there's been this sense that we don't want to have entangling alliances, but then we became an
00:05:58.880empire. So we had alliances, but we've always been kind of uncomfortable managing the empire.
00:06:03.520But that's what I can't tell. Is it just like randos on Twitter who are, like if you have to
00:06:11.100pick in a conflict, who lean more pro-Palestine than pro-Israel? Is that just like a, is that
00:06:17.480just a Twitter thing? Or do you think that actually reflects growing opinion on the young
00:06:22.740right it's it's tough but i think you know they're in in the dialectic you actually kind of have your
00:06:28.220answer which is if you have people saying pro like they are pro-palestine if they're affirming
00:06:33.300like the palestinian position rather than affirming like an america first position of just
00:06:38.320seeking our own interest first then i think they're you know they're giving away the game
00:06:42.560these are people who are not actually motivated by conservative ideology or america first ideology
00:06:48.460mag ideology. These are people who are aligning themselves with what is kind of inherently,
00:06:53.080you know, oftentimes presents itself as a, as like an anti-colonialist or a very progressive
00:06:57.960movement. And so in the rhetoric, I think you start to see that, but I mean, those voices are
00:07:02.500very real. They are very large. I don't think they're, you know, intellectual powerhouses.
00:07:08.120And I think that, like I said, that filtering is going to occur and people are going to start to
00:07:12.400grow tired with the people who are truly just secret progressives willing to ally with whoever,
00:07:17.280as long as they're opposed to Israel. And, you know, I'm optimistic that we end up with a lot
00:07:22.760more people on our side who are willing to say, hey, you know, we don't like maybe the foreign
00:07:25.980influence, but it's not as if we're going to adopt the terminology of the left in order to,
00:07:30.020you know, make a stand on this issue. Chavez, do we need to worry about free Palestine
00:07:34.900conservatives? Is that it seems to me opposition to Islam was always a pretty stable rallying cry
00:07:43.360for the right going back to old charles the hammer at the battle of tours uh is that is that now being
00:07:48.720upended yeah people forget that 200 years before the establishment of the state of israel in 1948
00:07:54.300the first war we ever fought as the united states was against muslims off the coast of tripoli
00:07:58.940because they kept kidnapping white christian sailors and of course thomas jefferson dispatches
00:08:03.940ambassadors saying why are you doing this to us we have no quarrels with you and of course they say
00:08:07.300well you are the infidel and we're commanded by the quran so this bizarre left green alliance
00:08:11.220it's not just left green anymore to a certain extent it's the right green alliance it's just
00:08:14.480so bizarre i mean you can hate israel as much as you want hate apac hate bb it doesn't really
00:08:18.080concern me what does concern me is this bizarre welcoming of islamist ideals and islamist countries
00:08:23.100particularly by the likes of tucker carlson kind of normalizing it amongst the american populace
00:08:26.960but i do agree in general that the israel question it's really boring at this point i mean i speak on
00:08:31.140college campuses and i want to talk about tariffs and immigration and gun violence and trump and of
00:08:35.880course all they want to talk about especially because i'm you know an observant jew i don't
00:08:39.220I don't know what gave that away. The fact that my name is Shabbos or I wear the funny hat, but they just want to talk about, you know, AIPAC and the Epstein stuff and Gaza.
00:08:45.300And it's just so boring. So I've been clear from day one. All right. Cut the foreign aid.
00:08:48.760But the foreign aid, it's a distraction. You know, it's like a circus to make people who are otherwise not politically engaged think that they're actually politically engaged.
00:08:55.360Because when we talk about foreign aid, we're talking about 0.8 percent of the foreign budget.
00:08:59.340You know, people say, well, there's a genocide. I don't want to support the genocide.
00:09:01.680But leaving aside, there is no genocide. I mean, from November of 2020 to November of 2022, in the Tigray War, 800,000 Ethiopian civilians were killed in an actual massacre.
00:09:11.500A, no one knows that that happened. B, no one talks about it. And C, we give Ethiopia $1.5 billion in foreign aid in every single year.
00:09:18.720You don't really see much college campus protests about that. So cut the foreign aid. But it's such a non-issue.
00:09:23.420The real issues are the fact that we're spending $4 billion every two days on interest on the debt alone.
00:09:28.200We're spending more than a trillion dollars on entitlement programs that there's no way we can afford, and there's no way our generation will be able to reap the benefits of.
00:09:34.600So, yeah, the Israel stuff, it's a distraction.
00:09:37.280And, yeah, I'm very concerned that we're seeing the normalization of Islam as both a political movement and a religious philosophy.
00:09:43.100It's totally incompatible with Western civilization, which is why one of the last things Charlie Kirk was talking about before he was killed by Tyler Robinson was the dangers of political Islam.
00:09:51.040Yeah, look, so you're saying that it's real, that that is a growing problem on the right.
00:09:55.280And I go to a lot of college campuses, a lot of TPSA stops and YAF and others, and I have noticed this, and people really care about the Israel issue.
00:10:03.820So then my question, even if you say it's boring, who cares? It's not a big deal. Why do they all care about it?
00:10:09.000Why is it that no one, no conservative speaker can go to a college campus?
00:10:13.360Five years ago, all they wanted to talk about was trannies. Ten years ago, all they wanted to talk about was free speech.
00:10:18.380today, in my experience, that's not all they want to talk about, but the modal issue is Israel. Why
00:10:25.820is that? Yeah. And again, the night before Charlie was killed, he was on a Zoom call with Josh Hammer
00:10:30.560and Rabbi Pesach Walke to basically say, why are these young people obsessed with a country smaller
00:10:35.020than the size of New Jersey? I think the right is kind of falling for a mass hypnosis that the left
00:10:39.060did with BLM, even though statistically the idea that, you know, unarmed young black men were just
00:10:43.480being gunned down by these white racist cops, which is never true. I mean, the data just never
00:10:47.360supported that. Nevertheless, you had cities being burnt down by the left because they really
00:10:52.020didn't believe this thing. So, too, you're seeing young people being totally brainwashed and
00:10:55.600politically indoctrinated to believe that really all of our politics is controlled by a country of
00:11:01.100nine million people, a quarter of whom are Muslim Arabs. And, you know, that clip will probably be
00:11:05.360taken on AF Post right now saying that, you know, the Zionist Jew, of course, says that there is no
00:11:09.360Zionist Jewish control. But that's kind of the problem. You know, this is a Daily Wire show. So
00:11:13.540we come from the school of facts over feelings but so many young people that i'm interacting with
00:11:18.060and i'm young myself we all are maybe not you michael you're a little bit generationally removed
00:11:21.780but you look young thank you but it's very sorry flattery will get you somewhere i i feel like i've
00:11:28.640aged i feel like the cigars have actually aged me to like 55 by 36 but in any case i'll take the
00:11:33.980flattery but but young people so many i shouldn't say young people many young people that i'm
00:11:38.640interacting with on these college bases they come from the perspective of feelings over facts so i'm
00:11:43.080actually not interested in the arguments that you have in the data, in the logic, in the statistics
00:11:47.420or the numbers. I'm interested and it just feels like a genocide. I'm interested that data centers
00:11:51.920just feel wrong. I'm just interested that there must be this global cabal of pedophiles that,
00:11:55.900you know, Trump is covering up. Even though I don't have evidence to support that thing,
00:11:59.480nevertheless, I'm going to posit a theory. And that's really dangerous. It's really dangerous
00:12:03.500when you have increasing numbers of young people who are actually not in the interest of being
00:12:07.360swayed by the arguments, but rather are judging, I'll talk about myself, judging me based on
00:12:12.480immutable external characteristics that I literally have no control over. The fact that my name is
00:12:16.660Shabbos, I'm an Orthodox Jew, and I'm white. And that's why we oftentimes will call them the woke
00:12:20.860right, because they've adopted the worst tactics of the woke left. You know, Anna Kasparian did
00:12:25.060this masterfully. We were once debating on Piers Morgan, and I'm forgetting the point I made,
00:12:28.640but she responded by saying, and I quote, I get you're Jewish, so you feel you have to say that
00:12:32.680thing. That's really dangerous. That would be the equivalent of saying, Michael, yeah, I get what
00:12:36.480you're saying, but you're a Catholic, or Kai, you're a Mormon, so of course you would say those
00:12:39.220things. I don't care about your sexual orientation. I don't care about your religion. I don't care
00:12:42.720about your external immutable identities. I care about the arguments being presented.
00:12:46.320I agree with much of what you just said, but I actually do get, if someone says to me, well,
00:12:51.940Michael, you're Catholic, so therefore you think this, I actually, that's kind of fair,
00:12:55.620you know, in a way like there is a, obviously there's a theology and there's even a political
00:13:00.600philosophy that emerges from Catholicism. So I want to, I want to push on that point,
00:13:05.560But I do want to get the global perspective for a second from our pal over in the U.K., because I feel like what's going on with the right is not simply limited to the United States.
00:13:13.480I think it definitely bleeds over to the old motherland, which now, I mean, I suppose is the tip of the spear when we're talking about the Islam issue.
00:13:22.940But your name is not Mohammed. Your name is Jake Monroe.
00:13:26.140Do you get a sense that there's been a shift in the foreign policy, I don't know, desires or perspective of the young UK or no?
00:13:36.460The issue is a little hotter for you guys over there.
00:13:39.260Well, whenever it comes to the right over here, it's kind of a splintered mess at the moment.
00:13:43.220I don't know if you guys have heard about the splintering from the conservative, the traditional conservative part of the Tories with reform.
00:13:50.200And then reform also then split to restore.
00:14:23.080a like a multi-aid like everyone was involved there was elderly there was working class people
00:14:30.580there were upper class people there was a lot of young people there and foreign policy so much so
00:14:35.440far as it affects uh young conservatives here in the uk primarily seems to be around
00:14:40.760they need to leave muslims specifically need to leave and i would say that from my perspective
00:14:47.700If you're in the UK, this sort of pro-Palestine or free Palestine that's sort of echoed in certain folk right circles in the US doesn't seem to be as loud here.
00:15:00.400It's primarily just complete, total country, nation reclamation.
00:15:06.840And that seems to be the primary focus.
00:15:08.700As far as Israel is concerned, again, it's kind of a very difficult topic for people over here to touch on.
00:15:15.880I mean, I was detained by police recently and questioned on my beliefs and my contentions with the Jewish community here in the UK.
00:15:22.480I was directly asked how I feel about them.
00:15:38.680Because I live in Northern Ireland, right?
00:15:40.100So you guys, you guys probably are very familiar with the 2023 annual report that showed that over 12,000 British citizens were arrested for words that they expressed on the Internet around the nature of immigration or these kinds of things.
00:15:59.160Basically, this sort of like dystopian, you know, surveillance state that we live in and Americans were like, holy fuck, is this really happening?
00:16:06.520is this true is this actually happening people being arrested for things they're saying on the
00:16:09.720social media yes it's 100 true and it's being done by an organization on mainland uk which is
00:16:15.820great britain english england scotland and wales will prevent prevent is the task force that's
00:16:21.900responsible for tackling extremism and terrorism and all these sorts of things regardless of what
00:16:26.660the extremism is it could be islamism it could be you know just patriotism for your country and
00:17:02.200and it was seen as a symbol of hatred for certain neighborhoods that had a very specifically large
00:17:10.620amount of non-whites living in the neighborhood yeah well this is you know on this point of like
00:17:15.920national identity i do see the commonality i see is a major concern among young right-wingers
00:17:21.100about sovereignty and so in the uk the the threat to sovereignty is this flood of muslims i mean
00:17:27.540there are some other issues too but that's basically it so i think that's why the israel
00:17:31.660Palestine issue is not really controversial. I was just in the UK a month or so ago and I don't
00:17:37.160really see that as much here. But you brought up a word, as did Shabbos, that drives me a little
00:17:43.580bit crazy and I want to explore it a little bit, which is this idea of the woke right. Because I
00:17:48.520have friends of mine promote this terminology. They think this is a helpful distinction on the
00:17:53.280right. I think it's useless, basically. There are bad elements that have cropped up on the right
00:17:57.820That are anti-Semitic and anti-American downright and racist and whatever, you know, but I just, the reason I find it so unhelpful is it seems to me that the people who wield the slogan are accusing anyone who isn't like a nineties, Bill Clinton, moderate Democrat, liberal of B of being the woke right. And that, so it doesn't just take out the hateful people and the radicals and it takes out like traditionalists and classical conservatives. And I don't know. So do you, Kai, you're nodding in agreement.
00:18:27.380Yeah, totally. I mean, I see a lot of people who, you know, frankly, were conservative as of
00:18:33.740yesterday who are talking about this term of the woke right. And I asked myself, you know,
00:18:38.280kind of who gave you the authority to police what it means to be a conservative, what it means to
00:18:42.160be a Republican. And increasingly, what it is that, you know, makes them feel they have this
00:18:46.600authority is that when they joined the conservative movement, they were told that it was a much
00:18:51.080larger umbrella than maybe the term conservative truly, you know, is denitative of. And, you know,
00:18:57.040I think this is actually one of the big problems that we've run into. It is the fact that this
00:19:01.220umbrella has expanded in such a way that begins to tell people or gives people the impression
00:19:06.580that includes things that honestly it shouldn't. And so in the conservative movement, you have
00:19:10.560questions about, well, how important is marriage? I am sure that a lot of the conservative or
00:19:16.160Republican movement and mostly conservative, right? Because that term means something more
00:19:20.220specific, I would say, than even Republican. But a lot of conservatives might be uncomfortable with
00:19:24.440the idea that a conservative could be against the legalization of gay marriage, when in reality,
00:19:29.180this is kind of like in the actual term, it should be included. So I think that idea of the woke
00:19:34.840right, and I'll be honest, Shabbos, it's like, you are not a lifelong Republican. You're somebody who
00:19:40.760maybe has come into the fold more recently. I think that I see a lot of people who maybe are
00:19:45.760more ideologically libertarian, who are maybe more aligned with free markets than they are
00:19:49.660with larger conservative philosophy those are the kind of people who i see making you know or using
00:19:54.840this term especially as this like negative label to throw on to people aligning them by the way with
00:20:00.760um hitler i mean bb netanyahu said you know he compared it to the woke reich which is like
00:20:06.140okay awesome we're going back to calling people nazis that got us really far the first time
00:20:10.220wait hold on netanyahu's using the term too i mostly see it among like libertarians on twitter
00:20:14.800then yahoo used it hold on he used it he was he was in a meeting with um a bunch of influencers
00:20:20.140during which he discussed by the way you know the acquiring of of tiktok um along with other
00:20:25.680social media including x and in that meeting he says there's a term that that gets used a lot that
00:20:30.400that i that i really like uh which is the woke right or as i like to call them the woke right
00:20:35.300and i'm like what are we doing dude i'm a sucker for a good pun but i so shabbos what is you know
00:20:40.360the guy who's been promoting this the most who i like i actually like personally even though he
00:20:44.940drives everyone crazy on twitter is uh james lindsey and james lindsey's calls like everybody
00:20:49.560on the the woke right and james lindsey he's he's done some things are pretty cool and pretty fun
00:20:54.640like the uh the grievance studies scandal he exposed a lot of the weaknesses of academia
00:20:58.860but james is an atheist democrat until like 37 seconds ago you know he's a democrat until like
00:21:06.1602020 he is liberal like a left liberal by by most definitions and so i say look i appreciate his
00:21:12.400contributions to this broad republican coalition but you don't you can't you're not the arbiter
00:21:17.820of conservatism this is crazy but so okay kai you you don't like the label i'm uncomfortable
00:21:23.240with the label woke right shabbos you used it as did jake what how would you define like what is
00:21:27.700a good definition of the woke right oh it's cool first i would just say we can disagree on the
00:21:34.160application of it, but broadly speaking, in the same way we believe, I think this has been Shapiro's
00:21:37.920point from AmFest, in the same way we believe in like physical borders against illegal immigration,
00:21:42.040you need ideological borders. So if I said, for example, I believe in genital mutilation,
00:21:46.080right? Like I believe that young people should be able to decide what to do with their bodies.
00:21:49.460If you wake up one morning and you think that, you know, you're a woman, you should be able to
00:21:52.680cut off your penis. And then I go and say, you know what? I deserve a platform to speak at AmFest
00:21:56.820about that thing. I think we all as conservatives would say, no, you have a right to say that thing,
00:22:01.500But like, build your own thing. We don't need you in this movement because we don't believe in that thing.
00:22:05.440So I think it's actually very good to be able to define here are the things we believe in.
00:22:08.920So I think we would all probably agree that, yeah, maybe the application of the woke right is too, no pun intended, liberal.
00:22:15.000We might be too generous in who are subscribing to it. But yeah, I'm very comfortable.
00:22:18.840I won't use the term. What is it? I agree. We all need borders.
00:22:22.380And I totally agree with that. But just what is it? What does it actually mean?
00:22:25.300whether it's woke right the retard right rhinos it's individuals who subscribe to at least on
00:22:30.840paper conservative philosophy or conservative politics but very much add that advance and
00:22:35.500advocate for things that are very much not in the interest of the conservative movement and very much
00:22:39.360not in the interest of the trump mega agenda and again i think it's totally i don't mean to be
00:22:44.060pedantic about it but like what what are those i'm trying to figure out because i i totally agree
00:22:49.000that you need ideological borders but but what are they i'll give you specific i'll give you
00:22:52.500specific examples. The idea that Donald Trump has been protecting a pedophile sex trafficking ring
00:22:57.480and then parroting that for more than two years, that is an example of an individual who's presenting
00:23:02.700feelings over facts, who is trying to sully the conservative movement. The idea that Donald Trump
00:23:07.260or the MAGA movement is being bought or influenced by foreign influence, whether it was Russia in
00:23:12.3202016, whether it's in Israel in 2024, that's an example of individuals who aren't presenting an
00:23:16.680argument, who aren't presenting facts or evidence, but are, again, engaging in feelings over facts.
00:23:21.200And so whether you want to call them liberal or retards or woke, right, whatever the terminology is.
00:23:25.380Yeah, we can say that those people are not part of the mainstream conservative movement.
00:23:28.700And I'll make one last point. I sort of take issue with the fact that individuals who are new to the conservative movement are being stymied for this.
00:23:34.620That's actually a really good thing. In order to win in 2028, we need more people to come to the conservative movement.
00:23:39.700In fact, you can make a really good argument that Donald Trump in large part won in 2024 because he had a broad coalition of disillusioned Jewish Democrats like myself, of disillusioned Muslims in Michigan.
00:23:49.500Again, in fact, one of the regions Mike Rogers is going to win in November is because a lot of Democrats are fed up with Abdul El-Sayed in the DSA.
00:23:56.040We need to encourage that. And yeah, I'm new to the conservative movement.
00:23:58.920I admit that openly because it's obviously the case.
00:24:00.440I became a conservative after October 7th when I saw the literal cheering on of terrorism and terrorists by the, quote unquote, elites of our society.
00:24:08.060I saw how Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Yale, UCLA were entertaining and normalizing and acquiescing to the lowest common denominator.
00:24:14.860And I didn't want to be part of the Democratic Party anymore.
00:24:16.720I didn't want to become a liberal and I didn't want to be a liberal, I should say.
00:24:19.500And that evolution led me to a lot of conservative beliefs, whether it's on climate change, whether it's on immigration, whether it's on tariffs, whether it's on a whole host of issues.
00:24:26.700That's really good. We should encourage people to do that.
00:24:28.420Isn't that like the whole point of, you know, I actually want to convince people to our side.
00:24:33.200I have to confess, I didn't I thought you were a lifelong Republican.
00:24:35.880I didn't realize that you were a new convert.
00:24:37.800But the only reason I'll I'll forgive you for how recently you converted is that you sued Harvard.
00:24:43.480And so to me, that erases a myriad, a bad election, you know.
00:24:49.400Look, I'm proud of the fact that I'm proud of the fact that I registered hundreds of people to vote for Donald Trump in 2024.
00:24:55.160In fact, this is a little plug for my yarmulke, but the Trump campaign actually gave us a Trump style keep a Trump fans.
00:25:01.220Forty seven. It's kind of cool. I'm proud of the fact that I'll be campaigning for Mike Rogers in Michigan, Bruce Blakeman in my home state of New York, Spencer Pratt in L.A., although that didn't work.
00:25:10.320So, again, if we want to build the conservative movement, so long as you subscribe to core conservative ideals, sign on up.
00:25:16.040I mean, Donald Trump was a pro-choice Democrat at one point.
00:25:18.740J.D. Vance compared Trump to Hitler at one point.
00:29:26.900Of course, I believe people can change.
00:29:28.640What you're telling me, though, is that we should forget how they've been.
00:29:31.000We should forget the way they've thought in the past and just take it all on their word.
00:29:34.760And I think that is politically completely irresponsible.
00:29:37.800And if you were marrying somebody, it would be the worst advice you could give them.
00:29:40.740Go to preborn.com slash Knowles, K-N-W-L-E-S.
00:29:43.540Folks, we are living in a defining moment.
00:29:45.580Today, a woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can order the abortion pill online often before anyone has the chance to tell her she's loved or that she's not alone or that there's hope.
00:33:47.800The primary concern is this Muslim issue that seems to be happening.
00:33:53.220But whenever it comes to this authoritarian regime, this threat of an authoritarian regime that's rising up,
00:33:59.500there seems to be no one on the right that is suspicious of themselves or each other or any splinter of a faction of the conservative parties.
00:34:06.460It very primarily is focused on labor, which is, you know, Keir Starmer and all of the things that he's been involved with,
00:34:13.060all of the things that he has created policies to uh to allow happen with the border crossing
00:34:20.240and stuff like that and the the welfare and the uh the media black uh blackout and and blind spots
00:34:25.560for all the migrant crimes that are happening and it's also just the fact that the the overwhelming
00:34:31.860amount of migration that is coming into the uk is quite clearly to bolster their vote numbers
00:34:37.460in order to um still masquerade as if we're living in a democracy but actually because of the amount
00:34:43.980of uh fabricated voter numbers uh it's actually just a and it's a dynasty they're just going to
00:34:49.940keep going yeah they do the same thing here though we're we're relatively lucky because they with us
00:34:54.460it's mexicans who are generally nice and you know we can kind of we've known them for a long time
00:34:59.060and they kind of have a religion and and for you guys it's jihadis so that's much harder to deal
00:35:03.260with but on the economic point uh like beyond foreign policy i've seen this term woke right
00:35:08.540bandied about for people who support tariffs or for people who think that we ought to have an
00:35:13.340industrial policy or for people who think that we ought to curtail certain kinds of speech you know
00:35:18.240ban porn or whatever uh is that i don't know shabbos does that does that fall into the woke
00:35:23.300right criterion obviously not which is what i was saying earlier the application is probably
00:35:29.520poorly managed. But the general concept that there are those that exist outside the space of
00:35:33.800conservatism is so obviously true. I mean, a personal example would be anti-Semitism is like
00:35:38.160a real thing. And when it crosses into criminality, there needs to be consequences. But its application,
00:35:42.720particularly amongst the American Jewish leadership, is just insane that they just label
00:35:46.820anything they don't like, especially criticism of Israel, as anti-Semitism. So again, conceptually,
00:35:51.240of course, there's anti-Semitism, but its application is silly. Conceptually, of course,
00:35:55.280there are nefarious actors within conservatism who want to hijack the movement. We're probably
00:35:59.080too liberal in how we characterize those individuals, but to attack people for pointing
00:36:02.760it out, I think is, again, just really, really misguided. And I think a really another good
00:36:06.920example, because it just happened yesterday, was the fact that our vice president was holding a
00:36:11.860fundraiser with an individual who gave Tucker Carlson $15 million to start his show. Now,
00:36:16.300whether you agree or disagree with whether that was a good decision, we should be allowed to talk
00:36:19.640about it. And we're allowed to ask questions. And I don't mean asking questions in the Candace
00:36:23.640Owens way. I mean, asking questions, not for the sake of positing a theory, but to actually get an
00:36:26.820answer. And to shut down criticism of that is really wrong. And that's where I take issue with
00:36:31.300what you were alluding to, Kai, earlier about this idea that we can't ask those questions pertaining
00:36:35.380to, I don't know, like foreign influence. I mean, I have debated nonstop individuals who believe
00:36:40.640that Israel controls every single American policymaker. I'll be in Vegas on Monday to
00:36:44.700debate 10 people on Sean Kelly's podcast. Every time Nick Fuentes attacks me, I always tell him
00:36:48.840let's debate anytime, anywhere. I went on Piers Morgan's show to denounce the British government
00:37:22.360is what the statistics bear out gen z is the most likely to be medicated the most likely to report
00:37:26.380feelings of suicidal ideation depression anxiety and the most likely to engage of acts of political
00:37:30.780violence on both sides of the aisle and i believe a large part of that is because of their being
00:37:35.220demoralized by individuals with large platforms who tell them the reason you have economic anxieties
00:37:40.340however justified they are is because of this like shadowy undefined cabal of like elites or
00:37:45.220pedophiles or jews or whomever and that's a really bad message to be telling young people
00:37:49.220Well, if you don't mind me just jumping in and kind of tackling that, I would say, yeah, I think right now the state of discourse is far better than it has been, at least in the sense that people are debating these ideas.
00:38:00.020And I would argue the best thing that ever happened for Israeli public relations is the fact that now you have a large crop of new debaters who are tackling the issue and pointing out that a lot of like who you call the woke right, who make these kind of, you know, flippant accusations or arguments against Israel really have no idea what they're talking about.
00:38:18.200And that actually, to me, has been staggering to see. I'm somebody who obviously criticizes the relationship between the United States and Israel. But when I think up, you know, well, who would be the debaters to tackle this subject, as I had to do when I went on to Jubilee recently to debate it, I couldn't really come up with a long list of names, despite the fact that this issue is now more saturated than ever.
00:38:38.340There are more people critical of Israel than ever. And so few of them who actually know what they're talking about. So I think that the open discussion is the best thing that has happened for both sides. But I don't think that historically that was the case. Historically, this was a taboo subject. And to say, you know, that it isn't is, you know, to spit on my head and tell me it's raining, right? You're just absolutely saying something that is not the case.
00:39:00.060What I'll say, though, is to hone in on this actual definition, because, Shabbos, I don't know if you've come up with a great one.
00:39:06.920One of the things that I see attributed to the woke right is any kind of use of identity or any kind of allegiance or at least alignment with it.
00:39:18.440And I think identity is actually something that is relevant.
00:39:20.980certainly the left, you know, have engaged in identity politics in a harmful way, in a way
00:39:25.760that has targeted the founding stock of America, that has demonized the people who built this
00:39:29.800country, making them all out to be evil slavers, when obviously we know they were far more virtuous
00:39:34.080men than many of us, and certainly all of those people levying the accusations. But I think that
00:39:39.400that is really what gets to it. I mean, when you look at the people who say the term woke, right,
00:39:43.640they apply it to anybody who is willing to say that the founding stock of the American nation
00:39:47.300was white anglo-saxon protestant it seems that you can't even talk about the identity of the
00:39:52.400country without being labeled woke right this is a really good point because to me the fairest
00:39:58.520uh claim that comes from the people who use the accusation of woke right is that this faction of
00:40:04.940the right is wielding identity politics and that's bad because we don't like identity politics on the
00:40:10.740left and therefore we shouldn't like identity politics on the right and identity politics is
00:40:15.580another term that we could debate for like three hours. But yeah, obviously, the ID politics we
00:40:19.800saw from the left was truly horrific. But it doesn't mean, obviously, it doesn't mean that
00:40:22.940in politics, there's no role for identity. I mean, what is politics? Politics refers to the
00:40:27.900political community. So I actually think that's a pretty fair honing in on it. But then what does
00:40:33.740that mean? I mean, what are the limits of talking about identity? We're not going to have like a
00:40:37.220skinhead party in the United States, which would be bad and also politically not viable at all.
00:40:42.320So what are the limits of this? And Shabbos, do you think that's a fair definition?
00:40:47.680Yes and no. First of all, Dan Bilzerian very much tried having a skinhead party.
00:40:50.660So we came very close. We were only 98 percentage points away.
00:40:54.540I don't know. His area of donors might disagree with you.
00:40:57.840There you go. Look, I can't really talk about other individuals who you're not naming because I just don't know.
00:41:04.800What I can do is defend the things that I believe in and things that I have said.
00:41:07.820So when I talk about the woke right, I'm referring to guys like Thomas Massey, who voted with the Democrats repeatedly to defund the DHS and to open the borders.
00:41:14.600I'm referring to people like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who, again, voted with the Democrats and believe that Donald Trump is sex trafficking young girls.
00:41:19.980I'm referring to people. I want to hone in on this. This is a very good point you bring up because Thomas Massey, until he turned on Trump, he had a very good voting record with the Republicans.
00:41:29.560He was routinely considered one of, if not the most conservative members of Congress, whatever that means.
00:41:34.260He was more libertarian. But when he turned on Trump, he kept voting with the Republicans a lot.
00:41:39.160But then on crucial issues where they needed his vote, where he would give sucker to the left, he would he would pal around with guys like Ro Khanna and these guys who were, you know, even if he had a 93 percent voting rating with the Republicans, it was on the crucial issues that he turned on the Republicans and Trump.
00:41:54.500So is your point that the moniker really has more to do with alliances, with less with ideology and just more with do you show up when we need you kind of politics?
00:42:07.000Yeah, I mean, ultimately, politics is the art of the pragmatic.
00:42:10.500And yes, when you need things to pass and then you have Republicans who campaigned with Donald Trump.
00:42:15.280I mean, even a week before the election, Thomas Massey was putting out these advertisements with him and Donald Trump, falsely implying that Trump had endorsed him and not telling the voters that that was actually four years ago.
00:42:24.620Then, yeah, you're kind of useless. And why would we want you as a Republican? Because you're essentially a Democrat in Republican clothing.
00:42:30.360So, again, I think we're getting caught up in the labels here. If you want to call that woke right, if you want to call it just acting as a liberal, if you want to call that just being a politician, then sure.
00:42:37.460But ultimately, I'm interested in the policies that policymakers are invested in amplifying and actually passing.
00:42:42.980And I have found that way too many Republicans campaign with the president.
00:42:47.460And then when push comes to shove, they they abandon him.
00:42:50.380And that's why 2028 is going to be so remarkable, because you're seeing this like odd splurging of, you know, the Tucker Carlsonites who believe that MAGA has somehow been abandoned and they're going to find their own party in 2028.
00:43:01.160So if you keep saying that MAGA is dead and conservatism is dead, then fine, leave.
00:43:35.580But Kai's objection is an interesting one, which is on the discreet point, when we whatever
00:43:40.080the term woke right means no one includes john cornyn or like susan collins or somebody so it
00:43:46.280obviously means something more specific than that i agree with you shabbos i think it's way more
00:43:50.840practical than ideological it's way more team politics and you know we use this word tribalism
00:43:56.060as a pejorative i like tribalism in politics i think politics is a team sport uh but yes
00:44:01.400kai i think you're right it means something more specific and it but what what is that i i don't
00:44:07.920I can't quite articulate it. Yeah. And then if I were to say that, well, you know, if I'm still
00:44:14.140manning the woke right, maybe it's that we look at a case like John Cornyn versus Paxton and we say
00:44:19.360Trump's choice here should be obvious. The fact that we've spent, what, upwards of 30 million
00:44:23.340dollars in this primary when we should have a very obvious endorsement in this race. This is the kind
00:44:28.680of stuff that, you know, we look at and say, hey, the president could be doing better here. It's not
00:44:32.780because we hate the president. And the reason I say we is because James Lindsay himself dubbed
00:44:37.380to be woke right. So I think, you know, I've earned the right to say it. It's not that we
00:44:41.160hate the president. It's that we look at some of the decisions that he makes and we say these are
00:44:44.900really unforced errors. There are easy decisions here. And some of the moves that he makes seem
00:44:49.540to betray what he actually did in 2016. People who use the term woke right against anybody who
00:44:54.920doesn't automatically support everything that is happening in the administration forget that in
00:44:59.6402016, Donald Trump raised his hand to say that he would not support any of the other Republican
00:45:04.680nominees if he were not the nominee for president. That is what we're trying to live up to is that
00:45:11.160actually like holding ourselves to a higher standard. But it seems that if people who hold
00:45:15.000themselves up to a higher standard disagree with whatever the admin's doing, they get thrown these
00:45:19.200labels. Okay. There's one last point I want to make before I let you go. I know we're running
00:45:22.480kind of late, but it seems like it's far afield, but it actually does relate. It seems like a lot
00:45:27.760of what you're getting from the woke, right? Conspiracy, right? Whatever. A lot of it is
00:45:33.800even beyond ideology it's just like getting facts wrong and being generally psychotic if not
00:45:39.040sociopathic and the apotheosis of this all the conspiracies and all the everything with these
00:45:44.900women showing up to the lindsey clancy trial with their children supporting the murderer of her own
00:45:50.860children bringing their kids there and it does it does seem like i love debate the paleo neocon
00:45:57.500debate and debating foreign policy do we have two are our allegiance is too tight or tariffs good
00:46:02.840Should we have industrial policy? Like, I'm all for it. And I like I think, you know, a number of us have mentioned Charlie Kirk on the panel. He was really good at cultivating healthy debates on the right and excluding kind of stupid debates. But it does seem like so basically all of the Internet debates or most of them are just nonsense, like conspiratorial, fever minded, stupid nonsense that ultimately comes up to this Lindsay Clancy stuff.
00:46:26.580So my final question I have for everyone is, we've mentioned my friend and colleague Ben Shapiro saying facts don't care about your feelings. That's true. Also, politics exclusively cares about your feelings or largely cares about your feelings.
00:46:38.200So just on the political psychology of where the young right is and where the, I don't know, the political order is generally, are we totally cooked?
00:46:48.160Are we all just living in like Lindsay Clancy land?