The Michael Knowles Show - September 02, 2026


＂You've Been Lied To＂ Major Issues Solved With This Simple Trick ｜ Dr. Kalli Hale


Episode Stats


Length

19 minutes

Words per minute

215.55

Word count

4,222

Sentence count

308

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

3

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
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00:01:20.120 I think this is the biggest decision a parent has to make in their child's growth and development, period.
00:01:25.460 What are the problems that people can face?
00:01:27.540 other problems. Obstructive sleep apnea is deadly. You can have a heart attack, a stroke. I have had
00:01:32.360 patients die. If your child has orthodontics done wrong, as a child, it will plague them for the
00:01:37.980 rest of their life. When we talk about Maha, make America healthy again, we talk about vaccines
00:01:43.700 and food and drugs, but we ignore one issue that has bedeviled me for my entire life. And it's very
00:01:52.340 difficult in my job where I speak for a living and where I smoke cigars for a living, which is
00:01:57.540 is my chompers, my teeth, which is why I'm so pleased to be joined by Dr. Callie Hale of
00:02:03.940 Toothpillow. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. You're the chief dental officer.
00:02:08.780 I sure am. And the founder of Toothpillow. And we're filming, I should note, we're filming
00:02:13.640 this interview at a very special time. Because do you know when I usually go to the dentist?
00:02:18.100 When? 2.30. I have not heard that one before.
00:02:22.720 Actually, when I saw this schedule pop up on my calendar, I said, this is providential.
00:02:28.060 Literally living it.
00:02:29.600 So I'm curious about it because a lot of people think of dentistry, well, as sort of witchcraft,
00:02:35.620 where they just lie to you about how many cavities you have and rip you off.
00:02:38.200 Unfortunately.
00:02:38.780 Topic for another time.
00:02:39.460 But even like braces and orthodontisture and all that, they think of it as cosmetic.
00:02:45.820 Correct.
00:02:46.080 And there are all these symptoms, like real actual health symptoms that go along if you don't fix your teeth and your jaws and all of that.
00:02:52.600 Absolutely.
00:02:52.900 And I have suffered from almost all of them.
00:02:54.700 I hate to hear that.
00:02:55.860 The grinding, the spacing.
00:02:57.940 I'm such a good orthodontics patient.
00:03:00.260 I wear my retainer every night since eighth grade.
00:03:04.520 You're a perfect patient.
00:03:05.620 Thank you.
00:03:06.220 So they would want it.
00:03:06.680 But they still, the teeth kind of move.
00:03:08.040 But it can cause problems for your sleep.
00:03:10.100 It can cause bone problems.
00:03:11.700 It can cause all sorts of issues.
00:03:12.700 Yes.
00:03:12.900 So what is the pitch in our Maha movement for a tooth pillow?
00:03:17.120 That we have to make sure that our children are breathing and sleeping properly at a very young age.
00:03:22.000 And a lot of people don't correlate that with your jaws or your teeth.
00:03:24.940 And some of the symptoms you talked about, tooth grinding, even bedwetting outside of an appropriate age.
00:03:28.880 I've been generally, you know, maybe a late night at the bar that gets me, but usually I've avoided that one.
00:03:34.500 But yeah, the breathing, the snoring, all that kind of stuff.
00:03:36.780 Yeah, it's everything.
00:03:37.360 And it starts with how is your child's jaw development happening when they're really young,
00:03:41.520 Meaning, how are they eating food?
00:03:42.820 Do they breastfeed long enough?
00:03:44.040 There's all sorts of muscle development that has to happen in order to induce bone growth. 0.98
00:03:48.400 Muscle drives bone growth.
00:03:49.900 This is TMI.
00:03:50.720 I didn't breastfeed.
00:03:51.460 I was bottle fed.
00:03:52.420 I'm going, this is like a psychologist meeting, actually.
00:03:55.700 I'm here to help you.
00:03:56.160 Thank you.
00:03:56.700 Yes.
00:03:57.080 Connect all the dots.
00:03:58.140 My producer, Ben Davies, is a volunteer ambassador for your product.
00:04:02.360 Oh, I know.
00:04:02.980 Before you ever came on a partnership with the show, he told me, he said, oh, I've got my kids on Toothpillow.
00:04:07.680 Like, it's so great.
00:04:08.680 Incredible.
00:04:09.000 a more sort of natural and serious way to deal with these problems.
00:04:12.960 So why hasn't anyone done this before?
00:04:16.040 That is the million-dollar question.
00:04:18.000 And you would think that this technology is new, but it's not.
00:04:20.400 I mean, these appliances in general that we use at ToothPillow have been around for 70-plus years.
00:04:25.420 But you get a little politics involved, you get a little change in the education.
00:04:28.320 And if that is pulled out of orthodontic residency program,
00:04:30.960 you have generations of dentists that come out never hearing about it.
00:04:34.760 And when I went through a very extensive postdoc education in obstructive sleep apnea,
00:04:38.160 I went for adults. I went to help all these adults that I was seeing that had all these issues, snoring, tooth grinding.
00:04:43.240 They were breaking their crowns. We were crowning teeth because they were cracking their teeth.
00:04:47.000 And we're just molar mechanics. We're just fixing the problem.
00:04:50.280 We're not getting to the root cause of what's going on.
00:04:53.080 And as I went through the education for all the adult stuff and I was like, golly, it's hard when you're older to fix it and deal with it.
00:04:58.820 We can do it. But it's so much easier if you can prevent it from ever happening in the first place.
00:05:03.640 And once I realized that was even possible, learning it from doctors that were older than me and had been doing it decades longer than me, yet I never heard about it one time in my dental school education.
00:05:13.440 I was floored.
00:05:14.200 So why is that?
00:05:15.140 Because I was only 10% joking when I said a lot of dentists seem like sort of charlatans to me.
00:05:20.100 Thank you.
00:05:20.320 You go in, you find 150 cavities.
00:05:22.540 Some guy, I go in, he says, you have all these cavities.
00:05:25.540 I want to fix your teeth.
00:05:26.660 I want to shave one down to do this, that, or the other.
00:05:29.540 And then I go to another dentist.
00:05:31.960 They say, you don't have any cavities.
00:05:33.640 And the, you know, the hygienist says, no, you don't listen to that, you're fine.
00:05:36.860 You don't have to do it.
00:05:37.460 So why is it?
00:05:38.540 Why is it that my heart surgeon I can generally sort of rely on, but...
00:05:43.320 It's even a choice.
00:05:44.200 Yeah, right.
00:05:44.900 Yeah, I guess that might be why.
00:05:46.340 But why is it that the kind of technology that you're talking about has been left out of orthodontist education?
00:05:54.180 You know what?
00:05:55.000 I mean, we'd have to go back 40 years and figure out who made that decision to pull it from the education.
00:05:58.860 Because now it's back like a freight train.
00:06:00.840 And 10 years ago, as I was practicing this, man, the rumors, the daggers in my back,
00:06:04.900 the people that were like, what is she doing selling this little mouth guard to patients?
00:06:08.720 Like you would, I mean, I'm sure you can imagine what it was like.
00:06:11.480 And now fast forward, they're taking my education program.
00:06:14.140 They're learning from me, which is great.
00:06:15.460 I'm like, hey, however you get here, you need to get here.
00:06:18.140 But it was, it's really sad the generations of adults that had orthodontics done wrong the first time, myself included.
00:06:23.520 Which is part of my passion of fixing it while they're young and growing.
00:06:26.740 It makes so much sense.
00:06:27.400 I talked to somebody yesterday.
00:06:28.520 They said, it makes sense when you think about it.
00:06:29.840 I go, exactly.
00:06:30.600 You're growing.
00:06:31.740 Your bones are developing.
00:06:33.200 Your skull is growing.
00:06:34.460 Your tongue is working.
00:06:35.560 Your muscles.
00:06:36.060 All of that.
00:06:36.600 While you're still literally growing, you can make an impact in kids' jaws and breathing that will last them a lifetime.
00:06:42.820 Now, I had braces as a teenager.
00:06:44.340 They put it on at 12, 13.
00:06:45.760 A boy's head and neck and a girl's head and neck development by 12 and 13 are almost 94% complete.
00:06:50.800 So we wait until the foundation is pretty much solid and we squeeze teeth into an alignment that looks good.
00:06:57.100 Mom and dad paid for braces.
00:06:58.380 They want straight teeth. 0.52
00:06:58.960 They got straight teeth.
00:06:59.500 not ever realizing that it was going to change the way that child breathed for the rest of their
00:07:04.000 life. They still pull teeth for braces. This is still happening. Really? Oh, absolutely. Your
00:07:09.260 mouth is too small. We need to take teeth out. You know why they didn't start at three or five 1.00
00:07:12.220 or seven. They didn't see you till you were 14 or 13 or 12. And they say, we don't have any way
00:07:17.220 to do it without taking teeth out. That takes up, that takes away so much tongue space. And it's 0.90
00:07:23.160 literally a precursor for sleep disorder, breathing and potentially obstructive sleep
00:07:26.420 at me as an adult.
00:07:27.420 Well, and also what mattered a lot more to me when I was end of middle school, early
00:07:31.440 high school, is that when you get the braces on, it's much harder to impress girls, you
00:07:36.240 know?
00:07:37.240 And then even in the long run, in that very chair, I interviewed one of the great philosophers
00:07:41.800 of our generation, Mr. Clavicular, very famous, who talks about looks maxing and bone smashing
00:07:48.460 and mogging and all the rest of it.
00:07:50.040 And anyway, it's very important to be able to impress girls, but at a deeper level, let's
00:07:56.060 fear monger a little bit here. What are the problems that people can face other than a
00:08:00.280 mouth that doesn't look good or you snore a little bit? What are the problems?
00:08:03.540 Obstructive sleep apnea is deadly. You can have a heart attack, a stroke. I have had patients
00:08:07.460 die of a stroke sleep apnea. My dental assistant's father passed away at 55 years old, took a nap,
00:08:13.140 woke up, had a heart attack, and died. And he had sleep apnea. And we knew this. He wasn't
00:08:17.500 wearing a CPAP. He wasn't being properly monitored. He didn't like a CPAP. Who likes
00:08:21.440 their CPAP. Only a small majority of people. And so when you think about, it's like, I hate to
00:08:27.880 fearmonger and I hate to go full blown with that, but I'm telling you, if your child has orthodontics
00:08:32.120 done wrong as a child, it will plague them for the rest of their life. This is a stupid question. 1.00
00:08:36.520 I didn't go to medical school. Why is it that if your teeth are messed up, you stop breathing when 1.00
00:08:42.240 you sleep and die? I actually don't understand the connection. I would love to explain it to you.
00:08:46.300 So your mouth, your breathing complex is from here around, right? They call it the nasomaxillary
00:08:51.180 complex. All of your air has to come in either through your nose or your mouth. It should come
00:08:54.360 in through your nose. Yeah. When you mouth breathe as a developing child, you have allergies, you're
00:08:58.800 allergic to something, whatever, food sensitivities, underdeveloped urge, a tongue tie that went missed,
00:09:03.600 whatever it is. I have that too, by the way. So did I. I had it fixed when I was 37. Yeah.
00:09:08.400 Yeah. If you haven't had it fixed yet, that's a whole nother conversation. I need to go get my
00:09:10.960 tongue snipped? Oh, 100%. Oh, this is like why I don't go to the dentist. I know, right? Here we go. 0.99
00:09:16.380 Yeah, but when you mouth breathe, your muscle, your tongue, this massive muscle in your mouth that is responsible for palate expansion, sits low.
00:09:25.060 If it's sitting at the bottom of your mouth like this, you will grow in a vertical pattern.
00:09:29.400 Your lower jaw, the mandible, will grow in the direction it's stimulated, which is why the tooth pillow works.
00:09:35.560 Because we stimulate the lower jaw to grow forward, and that looks maxing.
00:09:39.440 We help the jaw to be held forward, especially when these poor kids have a lower jaw that's way back.
00:09:43.780 You can tell a profile anywhere you look.
00:09:46.300 Everything we're talking about today, I'm so sorry, you'll never be able to unhear it or unsee it in all of your friends.
00:09:50.820 But when that tongue is low, the jaws do not expand and develop, and the roof of your mouth is the floor of your nose.
00:09:56.460 If you want to affect your breathing, you need to widen your palate.
00:10:00.900 And the easiest way to widen your palate is while you're growing and developing, and your tongue can do it for you.
00:10:05.880 But if you don't know that, because you were taught braces are nothing but cosmetic, we wait until the baby teeth fall out,
00:10:10.500 so we only have to pay for it once, which wasn't the case for me.
00:10:12.760 had it multiple times, you will have a completely different experience than somebody who started at
00:10:17.120 three or four or seven. Go to goodranchers.com slash Knowles, K-N-W-L-E-S. Back to school season
00:10:22.700 means everyone gets thrown back into a routine. You're running out the door as I was this morning,
00:10:27.480 taking kids somewhere, going from one thing to the next. Suddenly it's three o'clock,
00:10:31.240 you realize you never actually ate lunch. This is where I'm very excited about this. You know,
00:10:37.080 I'm a big, big Good Ranchers consumer. I'm not just an advertiser. I'm also a client all the
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00:11:38.640 slash Knowles. Good Ranchers American meat delivered. All right. Look, I'm sort of patient
00:11:45.100 zero here. And this is more of a confession, I guess. But so I had all these things, the tongue
00:11:49.980 tie and the grinding and the palate expanders. Yes. Yeah. But I did, there was no tooth pillow
00:11:56.200 in my youth. And I, even with that, like the palate expanders, even today, I still,
00:12:03.700 I get a little stuffy sometimes, I don't, whatever, I can't, and I find, this is like, this is a little weird, it's old Tim.
00:12:09.500 That's great.
00:12:09.880 I go to the dentist, I can't get x-rays done, because my gag reflex is so bad.
00:12:14.600 Oh my gosh, you're a ton of time.
00:12:15.020 They can't do it, and I go, then I switch, I go to a new dentist, and then they say, we have to do x-rays, I say, this is so humiliating, I'm going to be like, and then I go, and they say, no, no, I can do it, I'm a genius.
00:12:25.720 And then they do it, and we go through 20 minutes of a humiliation ritual, where I'm, you know, I'm wheezing, I've got all this, and then they say, okay, we've got to use some other machine.
00:12:33.700 to do it every time every single time so that's because of my tongue tie has a lot to do with
00:12:38.100 your tongue tie a lot has a lot to do with your overall jaw width and development which i can see
00:12:42.480 from anywhere because i treat so many patients not wide enough yeah but you can fix that 100 i can
00:12:47.260 fix that it will change it yes you can how 100 is it bone smashing like clavicular no you have
00:12:53.640 options you have surgical options you have non-surgical options we could spend an entire
00:12:56.900 day talking about just that and how we help adults every single day now in our virtual platform we
00:13:02.260 are coming out with an adult line. I'm super excited. But for somebody like you that has
00:13:05.940 really severe symptoms and might be diagnosed with an obstructive sleep apnea, you probably
00:13:08.880 need to be seen at one of my brick and mortar locations so that we can show you these expanders
00:13:12.360 and see if you want to go through it again. And the simpler way to do this is for this
00:13:16.180 all to have been corrected when I was a child. 100%. You have every symptom that we'll be
00:13:20.020 talking about on Toothpill. If you go to the website, it's all there. And more and more
00:13:24.120 dentists are paying attention now, which is great. But the vast majority of patients do
00:13:27.500 not have access to this care. They don't have access to the information, which is why I
00:13:30.600 built tooth pill. So, all right. Then in terms of the brick and mortar location, so what does a
00:13:34.240 person do? You go online, you say, I want to do this. I'm sold. I don't want to end up like Michael
00:13:39.100 with a bad gag reflex and mandular, tightened, whatever, the cortex, whatever. I don't know.
00:13:46.360 I love these words. It's great.
00:13:47.260 Yeah, thank you. I'm just sort of inventing my medical education. So, okay, they say,
00:13:52.040 I don't want to do this. What do they do?
00:13:54.480 Well, we do sleep studies in the practices because it's really important to have a baseline sleep
00:13:58.360 study at some point in your life, you really need to have one. A home sleep test. You don't have to
00:14:01.040 go and get hooked up to all the leads. You can take it with you at home and we can get a good
00:14:04.520 baseline for what your oxygen is because that really dictates your treatment plan. It truly
00:14:08.280 does. If you are very severe, we got a team of people that we need to get onto the case and you
00:14:12.200 want to find out now. You don't want to find out when you're 75. You don't want to find out when
00:14:14.620 you suddenly have a cardiovascular event. So that sleep study will tell us how low does your oxygen
00:14:19.400 go? How much are you actually sleeping? And you know, are you stopping breathing? The biggest
00:14:24.220 thing that people want to know is what's my number? How many times do I stop breathing per hour?
00:14:28.360 I've seen somebody in the 80s.
00:14:30.040 I've sat across somebody as thin and healthy as you, and they stop breathing 80 times an hour.
00:14:35.540 And they suffer from hypertension and depression and anxiety and all of these things because they never fully rest.
00:14:42.780 And your sleep is everything.
00:14:44.000 The one hack, the one true health hack is you better have very good sleep, and it better not be disturbed because your body is struggling for oxygen.
00:14:51.060 You can diagnose me by my under-eye bags, which is not just because I stay up late and do work and smoke cigars.
00:14:55.660 We can say that for now.
00:14:56.960 Yeah, yeah.
00:14:57.660 But wow, this is like a jarring and terrifying.
00:15:01.140 It really is.
00:15:02.120 I've been doing this a long time.
00:15:03.440 I've been in airway dentistry for 10 years.
00:15:04.860 I was approached by two very good friends in 2021.
00:15:07.320 Hey, what do you think about bypassing all of the dentists that don't know how to do this
00:15:13.100 and creating a tele-dentistry company?
00:15:14.800 And I will tell you in that moment, I had a lot of fear because knowing how incredible
00:15:20.280 this product was and the things that I was doing by the thousands of my practices, I
00:15:24.580 knew that I would be vilified to be have anything to do with a teledentistry sort of direct to
00:15:31.900 consumer, but it's not because every single patient passes through a dentist. But I knew
00:15:36.220 in that moment, this problem was so much bigger than me. And if somebody needed to stand on the
00:15:40.620 stake and say, this is how kids need to be helped. They need to be treated early, despite what you're
00:15:44.820 being told at your dental office. I was all for it. And I said, we have to do it. So we started
00:15:48.900 building the company, which meant I had to personally vet and pick out a dentist in every
00:15:53.100 state that i trusted and knew about this i can't just go get anybody as you know you can't i can't
00:15:57.540 just go get somebody that's like oh yeah i can sell stuff and you've never done a tooth full
00:16:00.680 appliance in your life yeah and so as we built it and built the processes and really i had to
00:16:06.220 figure out how can i replicate the patient experience that i deliver in my office for
00:16:10.980 people that are waiting months to come in and see me and have this conversation to the computer
00:16:15.460 and we figured it out and we had a couple people post about our company and it nearly broke the
00:16:22.060 internet one night we had a thousand submissions in just like a day yeah and that was the start of
00:16:27.760 us saying it's time to go it's time to deliver the best incredible experience and our reviews
00:16:33.260 and our caseload there is nobody on earth that has as much data as i do right now in pediatric
00:16:37.000 sleep questionnaires this is hot off the press but we're going to be publishing it and there
00:16:41.220 will be nothing anybody can say because we have the most incredible subset of patient reported
00:16:46.800 parent reported before and afters with our not only delivery method of it being direct to the home
00:16:52.760 and the access to the dentist on our app anything they need and the appliance this is very exciting
00:17:00.660 for especially for my children thank you especially for my children who one of my boys just looks
00:17:05.400 exactly like me and he's got all the same teeth things he is uh just just just turned four oh
00:17:12.860 perfect age what are you doing it is like the age i know you just had his fourth birthday
00:17:17.480 so that's very good and also very exciting for me that you are going to look smacks me up and
00:17:21.940 air max me up that this is my honor i know this you know on the show when we partner up with
00:17:28.360 advertisers we i i reject a bunch where i say like i i don't know i don't really believe in
00:17:33.720 that or i don't it doesn't align or whatever um like my teeth but but with some i say oh no that
00:17:40.240 sounds good that sounds interesting but i don't know very much about it and when when tooth pillow
00:17:44.040 came on and my producer said like i am you know an activist i'm an evangelist for tooth pillow
00:17:50.400 already we said that's great and we need to hook up all my kids and yes most most importantly me
00:17:56.180 yes so we need to save you so you can be around a long time yes well that and so that i can call
00:18:00.880 my buddy clavicular up and say look man i'm maxing i love it i'm sure you'd understand it well now
00:18:06.640 where can people find it? Toothpill.com. If you go to toothpill.com, you can fill out an assessment
00:18:11.280 that says, is my child a candidate? Because not all children are. We individually screen every
00:18:16.440 single child that comes through our portal and that state level provider is going to decide,
00:18:20.240 is this appropriate or do you need to go in office? Yep. So that is where you fill everything
00:18:24.700 out. It does not guarantee you that we can treat you virtually, but it does guarantee you that we
00:18:27.900 are going to give you the information that you need to make the best decision for your child.
00:18:30.500 And I'm telling you right now, I think this is the biggest decision a parent has to make
00:18:35.240 in their child's growth and development, period.
00:18:37.700 Who touches them, who does orthodontics on your child
00:18:40.000 will be the determining factor of how they age.
00:18:43.940 So if you want to age a little more beautifully than I have maybe over the years,
00:18:47.880 right now go to ToothPillow.com.
00:18:50.520 Right now, have I scared you sufficiently?
00:18:53.060 Have I scared me sufficiently?
00:18:54.460 I think I have.
00:18:55.240 ToothPillow.com.
00:18:56.160 Callie, thank you so much for being here.
00:18:57.240 Thanks for having me.
00:18:57.920 Appreciate it.
00:19:05.240 Thank you.