The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - 146. Is The Red Pill Community Right About Marriage, Sex & Dating？｜ Vincent Harinam

00:00:00.000 I bet you make a lot of people unhappy.

00:00:03.000 Uh, yeah, I don't know.

00:00:04.260 I think maybe my writing makes people uncomfortable,

00:00:07.940 but I think on a daily basis,

00:00:09.760 I get on pretty well with people sometimes.

00:00:13.100 Have you gotten any backlash for anything you've written?

00:00:16.200 Yeah, I got a couple of mean emails.

00:00:18.160 I think one of my friends is very upset with me,

00:00:20.860 but I just had to explain to her

00:00:22.300 that these are just facts.

00:00:23.500 You know, I'm just recording this stuff, right?

00:00:25.340 I'm not trying to like, can I swear on your podcast?

00:00:28.740 Yeah, yeah.

00:00:29.180 Yeah. Look, I'm not trying to shut out of you. I'm not trying to ruin your day or anything.

00:00:32.240 This is just what the numbers indicate. And it is what it is. Right.

00:00:36.680 And it's fair. And like reporting statistics too, is one thing. It doesn't mean that there

00:00:41.780 aren't going to be outliers. So people don't have to particularly get offended. Right. Because it's

00:00:46.700 like, no, on average, this is, this is life. Right. This is what it looks like. I'm sure you

00:00:51.540 get the same as well. Right. I'm sure you talk to groups of people and they're just not happy

00:00:54.860 with what you have to say, but it's just, this is the reality in which we live. Right. We can't,

00:00:59.020 we can't go left or right. Welcome to episode 146 of the Michaela Peterson podcast. I'm

00:01:08.740 Michaela Peterson. In this episode, I spoke with Vincent Harnam about modern dating, pickup artists,

00:01:15.140 and some terrifying statistics on gender dynamics. Vincent is a data scientist and

00:01:20.900 law enforcement consultant. He completed his PhD at Cambridge, where he currently teaches.

00:01:25.840 I asked him several questions like, what do women want, Vincent?

00:01:30.560 What do men want?

00:01:31.780 Is a higher IQ beneficial for relationships?

00:01:34.560 What are some other factors that affect relationships, like divorce being 50% more likely for women

00:01:40.120 who out-earn their husbands?

00:01:42.580 And what really is a simp?

00:01:44.540 We also talked about the red pill nerds, the manosphere, risk-taking OnlyFans, and geeks.

00:01:51.740 Please subscribe if you enjoy this episode.

00:01:53.660 Before we get started, this episode was brought to you by NordVPN.

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00:03:29.520 I hope you enjoy this episode.

00:03:35.960 Vincent Haranam, welcome to my podcast.

00:03:39.080 Hey, Michaela. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate the invite.

00:03:42.200 This is going to be fun. It's nice seeing you again. I think the last time I saw you,

00:03:46.380 I was in the UK.

00:03:48.160 Absolutely. It's been quite a while. That was November, if I remember correctly.

00:03:52.980 That was November.

00:03:53.980 Yeah, it was a great couple of events we put on here in Cambridge and across the UK. Your data was fantastic.

00:04:00.300 Yeah, it was really fun. Okay, so before we get into things, can you give a brief background about who you are and what it is you do?

00:04:07.140 Sure. Well, I am a law enforcement consultant and a data scientist. I also teach at the University of Cambridge.

00:04:13.620 you know really honestly i'm just a guy that likes numbers i think that's probably the easiest way to

00:04:18.260 put it um aside from that there's really nothing else i just together likes uh applying statistical

00:04:24.480 and mathematical acumen to understand social phenomena okay how does law enforcement and

00:04:30.880 data scientists how do those two things intertwine law enforcement what did you say yeah a law

00:04:36.220 enforcement consultant and a data yeah okay so you'd have to imagine that there's a lot of crime

00:04:42.060 data out there. A lot of police organizations have quite a bit of data that they need analyzed.

00:04:46.940 And I have the ability to do so. So they would give me a data set or a specific problem that

00:04:52.880 they want me to work on. And I would leverage a set of statistical models in order to provide

00:04:57.980 an answer or give them some sort of leverage with the data. So in essence, it's them providing some

00:05:04.100 data, me saying, well, these are the results that I've found, and these are the policy implications

00:05:08.620 of these findings. Okay. Interesting. Wow. That's fun. So it's like actual truth, right?

00:05:17.200 Here's the raw data deal with it. Yeah, exactly. That, you know, whether or not they choose to use

00:05:22.260 the data and actually implement changes, a different story altogether. You never quite

00:05:25.740 know with a, with a public sector organization, what happens because there's quite a bit of red

00:05:29.980 tape. Uh, there, there are different stakeholders involved. So if it goes up the chain, it goes up

00:05:35.400 the chain. If it's not used, it's not used. Do you ever give people data that they don't like?

00:05:40.200 They're like, no, that must be wrong. Oh, well wrong in the sense that it doesn't quite fit

00:05:46.600 their world viewer. And they're not quite happy with the findings that happens all the time.

00:05:49.840 They think they'd get something, but they get the opposite. And, uh, they're typically not

00:05:53.980 very happy with me or with the findings themselves, but Hey, that's what it is. It's the world we live

00:05:58.380 in. You're not always going to get what you want. This is true. Okay. So what do you teach at

00:06:04.060 Cambridge then? Do you teach data science? Yeah. In a matter of speaking. So I teach,

00:06:08.700 I teach a bit of statistics with policing students here. They typically come for a master's of

00:06:13.440 policing and I typically work with them. I have a number of students that I, that I work with as

00:06:18.480 well, but I'm mainly in the statistics stream and dealing with, with large data sets and how to,

00:06:24.060 how to navigate your way through it. Cool. Okay. I had to take statistics in university.

00:06:30.800 Did you like it? I'm not sure. I really, um, it's hard to say yes and no. I think it was

00:06:37.660 second year. So it was undergrad statistics first or second year. And I was quite ill.

00:06:43.180 So I wasn't really going to class. And I think I got a D on everything. Like I just didn't go.

00:06:50.300 And then I nailed the final exam and was like, I should have just learned everything first,

00:06:56.880 instead of last, I would have ended up with a higher grade. Um, so yeah, I think I did enjoy

00:07:01.480 it, but it's not, it's not like a humanities course. Yeah. Yeah. I, although I do think,

00:07:08.600 I think that statistics is something that should be taught to high schoolers right from the very

00:07:12.460 beginning. I think that it offers a lot of knowledge that is very practical. So mathematics

00:07:18.260 is one thing, right? Learning algebra and math class is one thing, but being able to calculate

00:07:21.840 a standard deviation or an average helps you to interpret the world better. Like you're just able

00:07:26.040 to look at certain phenomenon and say, well, is this an outlier or is this an average? And how,

00:07:31.420 how do I orient my, orient myself within that? And, and, you know, in other words,

00:07:35.540 it helps you make better sense of the world around you.

00:07:39.000 Hmm. Did you hear, I don't know if you've heard, but, uh, dad's been starting up Peterson Academy

00:07:45.500 to launching in the fall. Yeah. Has anyone been telling you have, you should, you should come

00:07:51.660 teach a course if you were interested in statistics, you know, I'd love to make statistics

00:07:55.620 school. I, you know, I can, I've been told that I'm, I'm not a bad statistics teacher because

00:08:00.480 it's, I think that you have to get away from the math and try to ground it within, within very

00:08:05.260 practical, practical, uh, example. And I think people, people gravitate to it if they find that

00:08:11.040 there's a practical purpose or use to statistics. Okay, cool. Well, we won't talk about that now.

00:08:17.400 We'll be in touch with that. I appreciate the invite. I'd love to do it. Okay, sweet. That's

00:08:22.640 fun. Great. Uh, okay. I'm going to have some questions about just things people might find

00:08:28.420 interesting, might, might have to do with statistics. We'll see. Um, you also have

00:08:33.180 been writing about modern dating, no? So how does that get intertwined into statistics and law?

00:08:40.120 It's a good question. I get that question a lot. Like what, what is a data scientist doing? Why

00:08:45.100 is he, why is he using all these mathematical models to try to understand dating? And I,

00:08:49.480 I think the simple, the simple answer to that is that, well, I'm just interested in the phenomenon,

00:08:53.220 right? I've, I've you know, I've, I've been on dates and I've dated myself. So why not actually

00:08:57.560 try to understand it in a more statistical way or a more empirical, empirical way. And there's a lot

00:09:02.980 of data out there to, to, to work with. So I think that being able to apply statistical principles,

00:09:08.420 data science to something like this helps people understand a very complex phenomenon. All I'm

00:09:13.720 doing is simplifying something that's very complex. And I think it gives people insight about how,

00:09:17.620 how things operate. All I'm doing is simplifying something very complex,

00:09:23.360 the dating world relationships. Yeah. Okay.

00:09:29.280 Okay. Um, in that case, I've got some very specific questions.

00:09:34.920 All right. Okay. Let's do it. Um, what do you think happens in a relationship when

00:09:40.880 the woman out earns what the man earns? Uh, it's going to end in divorce more than likely. So 1.00

00:09:46.160 there's a study conducted by American psychologists and they found that if a woman out earned her

00:09:51.800 husband, it was likely, it was 50% likely that the marriage would end in divorce. In fact,

00:09:57.240 this was corroborated by studies done by Finnish data scientists or Finnish psychologists as well

00:10:03.900 as Swedish psychologists. And it's interesting because the Swedish psychologist found that

00:10:07.720 if a woman brought in 80% of the total household income, there was a likelihood of divorce

00:10:15.440 increase by a factor of two, uh, relative to if a woman brought in, let's say 20% of the total 0.86

00:10:21.500 household income. Wow. Okay. So you said, so don't, don't all relationships have a 50% chance 0.99

00:10:31.920 of ending in divorce. Yeah, that's what, that's what everyone says, or at least that's, that's

00:10:36.300 the, uh, the idea out there. Uh, I don't know how well that statistic is stress tested because

00:10:41.000 it's, I think it's contingent on a lot of factors. So economics is a big one during periods of

00:10:45.900 depression, people are economic downturn. People typically don't get divorced. They typically

00:10:50.080 stick together because it's very costly. Um, and as well, you know, there's a lot of mediating

00:10:55.460 factors that, that, um, that allow divorce to happen or make it more likely to happen. But

00:11:01.520 economics is a massive factor, uh, specifically economics as in the wife making more than the 1.00

00:11:06.820 husband. So what's the solution there? I don't think there is a solution. I think that people 0.81

00:11:13.280 should probably lower their expectations. And in terms of, in terms of understanding that, okay,

00:11:18.960 well, this person is the breadwinner and it's probably whether or not it's a matter of the

00:11:23.220 woman, that person is the breadwinner. It's just, it's, it's, it's how the situation is. And one

00:11:27.640 should probably temper their expectations about that. Okay. That makes sense. Are there tricks

00:11:34.280 that you've heard of that you can do to offset that? So if you are the breadwinner in a family

00:11:38.880 and you're the female, is there something you can do to offset the fact? Cause it must be, 0.98

00:11:43.520 it must have something to do with dominance, right? You don't want to be, maybe you don't

00:11:46.700 want to be the dominant person in the relationship. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's again,

00:11:52.200 it probably goes back to roles played in relationships. It's, it's not always the

00:11:58.700 case that the man is the breadwinner. It's sometimes the case that the woman is more

00:12:02.580 dominant and she is, she is, she is the breadwinner. And so it probably comes down to being 0.87

00:12:07.760 able to, to met out responsibilities on the part of both sexes. And sometimes the man stays home

00:12:13.820 and takes care of children. And sometimes the woman goes out there and earns, you know, earns 1.00

00:12:17.600 the money. And so it probably is contingent on both partners, understanding that this is the

00:12:21.960 role that is played. Okay. That makes sense. Or they're just doomed. Or they're just doomed. Yeah.

00:12:30.340 um okay you've you've talked about a dark gentleman what what does what does that mean

00:12:38.340 what's a dark gentleman so a dark gentleman is a term that i've sort of coined to describe the

00:12:45.300 the perfect man as it were or the man that is most the most attractive and the dark gentleman

00:12:49.380 is a combination of a man that is able to provide the three p so he's able to protect uh provide as

00:12:56.740 economic provision and parentally invest. But at the same time, he does have those dark triad

00:13:03.120 characteristics, which makes him very attractive. So he threads the line between the perfect

00:13:07.160 gentleman and that dark triad personality. So he's able to combine those two aspects, 0.97

00:13:13.600 which are held in logical contrast. So I refer to it as the unity of contradictions. It's actually

00:13:18.580 very similar to when your dad speaks about chaos and order. I think the point that Jordan is trying

00:13:24.980 to get across here is that you need a combination of the two you need some sort of golden mean as

00:13:30.360 it were you can't have too much order you can't have too much chaos because in both situations

00:13:34.760 you get totalitarianism yeah that makes sense so that would be i feel like the dark triad too can

00:13:42.860 you can you list off what those characteristics are absolutely so the dark triad are three

00:13:47.240 personality traits that are found in individuals so you have machiavellianism which is typically

00:13:51.580 described as sort of manipulation or the ability to manipulate. The second is narcissism, you know,

00:13:57.360 pretty straightforward. And the third is psychopathy. So callousness, lying, thrill-seeking.

00:14:02.780 So it's said by psychologists that these three traits are quite negative. So individuals that

00:14:07.760 possess these traits are dark, right? They're very negative individuals. Yeah. Okay. And so,

00:14:14.820 but for some reason they're attractive to women. Yeah, exactly that. So these are evil, 0.87

00:14:20.400 but attractive. Yeah. Very, very attractive. So these, these individuals, it's important to keep

00:14:24.760 in mind that they're very low in neuroticism. They're very high in openness. They're very low

00:14:30.260 in conscientiousness. They're very high in extroversion. And those characteristics on

00:14:35.480 their own are pretty attractive. So a narcissist is, you know, smile speaks nicely, wears very

00:14:40.700 nice clothes. You know, that in and of itself is pretty attractive to women, right? A person that

00:14:44.800 is Machiavellian is very disagreeable. And what the statistics indicate is that an individual that

00:14:50.160 is highly disagreeable. If they are below the mean level of disagreeability, they typically

00:14:57.180 make 18.3% more in terms of yearly income. And that translates to about $9,722 per year.

00:15:06.880 Wow. How much of that is behind the wage gap?

00:15:11.380 A lot, a lot. So, uh, you know, I think agreeableness has to do quite a bit with why

00:15:19.940 some women don't advance as far as they do in their, in their fields and their respective 1.00

00:15:24.520 fields. What men are on average, more discreable than women. So they're more likely to fight for 1.00

00:15:28.560 a wage increase. They're more than likely to fight for, um, a promotion. And so these are,

00:15:35.200 this specific factor explains why men typically, you know, earn women on top of the fact that,

00:15:40.340 you know, there's a whole number of factors, including differences in, in, in job type

00:15:44.420 occupation, in, in, um, in industry and schooling, in the amount of hours worked that level of

00:15:49.300 danger of the job itself. It's one factor among many, I think. Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't,

00:15:57.100 I've always been like fairly, have you ever done my dad's personality test? Just out of curiosity.

00:16:00.660 I have done a personality test actually. Yes. But not, you have, yeah, not quite your dad's.

00:16:05.840 Which one did you do? I don't remember, but I do have it saved on my phone. I have the results

00:16:10.120 saved somewhere. Just from working for my dad and trying to run a business and everything,

00:16:14.700 I've had to kind of force myself into uncomfortable positions. And then you get used to it,

00:16:18.820 right? Asking for more as a woman. But I think a trick for doing that is the worst thing that 0.96

00:16:24.740 can happen. I got just to give you my experience of like trying to ask for more money or something

00:16:30.420 is like, I get these like feelings of guilt and of like, do I deserve it? Am I doing enough?

00:16:35.600 like this kind of thing, even if kind of logically I can say, okay, well it, this makes sense,

00:16:40.000 but it's like this guilt, horror feeling for asking for more. Whereas if I talk to like

00:16:44.860 disagreeable men, like they're okay with asking for more, even if they don't necessarily think

00:16:50.440 they deserve it. They're like, I'm just going to see what happens. And they're like, well,

00:16:53.460 the worst thing that could happen is they say no. Yes. So if you think about it that way,

00:16:57.520 it's like, what's going to happen if you ask for a raise, they're going to say, no,

00:17:00.340 like that's not that big a deal, but the feeling inside is like angst and horror.

00:17:04.980 Yes. I think as a female, maybe at least me sometimes. Yeah. I think, I think a lot of

00:17:10.760 women do have that, that specific experience. I think a lot of men are more comfortable asking

00:17:14.780 for a raise. Uh, and you're right. It's all, it's all a matter of opportunity and just taking risks.

00:17:20.420 I think a lot of the scientific literature would indicate that women are more risk averse than men.

00:17:25.200 Men are typically the ones that, you know, we talk about job type occupation. They're typically

00:17:29.520 the ones that do very dangerous drops, right? Your, your, your, your data will speak about,

00:17:33.160 um you know people that work on oil rigs out in you know various parts of the world specifically

00:17:38.020 in alberta and that's not that's not a very safe job right it's quite dangerous and it takes it

00:17:43.520 takes a lot of cojones to do a job like that you have to be quite um interested in risk or or very

00:17:50.580 risk-oriented as it were oh yeah that's for sure i've got cousins who work on oil rigs they're 0.98

00:17:56.580 like they're crazy. People lose arms on those things. It's crazy. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Okay. Okay.

00:18:04.080 I've got some more questions from the things you've written. Ooh. Okay. Let's talk about

00:18:07.940 this one. This is fun. Um, why are smart women less likely to get married people above a certain

00:18:14.180 IQ? That's a good question. So there was a study I'll add a bit of context here. So there's a study 1.00

00:18:19.140 that was conducted by four universities here in the UK and it was on, um, marriage and the role

00:18:25.940 played by IQ or how IQ affects marriage. And what the study found was that every 16 point

00:18:31.240 increase in a man's IQ increases his odds of marriage or his likelihood of marriage by 35%. 0.67

00:18:36.840 In contrast, every 16 point increase in a woman's IQ decreases her odds of marriage by 40%. 0.91

00:18:43.620 So you can see here that there's a staggering imbalance, right? 0.86

00:18:48.280 And 40%, 40%, a whopping 40% per a 16 point increase.

00:18:53.540 has there i do you know if there's ever been any studies on like do men say you get somebody with

00:19:00.280 130 i have a 135 iq as a male do we know the average iq they're marrying like they can't be

00:19:07.380 skewing towards a hundred right wouldn't you just get honestly wouldn't there be a communication

00:19:11.260 issue if there's a two standard deviation difference in iq yeah more than likely more

00:19:16.280 than likely i don't know of any studies that would indicate that but i think going back to

00:19:19.980 your original question as to why women have an issue, particularly women with a high IQ have an

00:19:24.480 issue getting married is that they're looking for a person on their same IQ level, their same, 0.52

00:19:30.740 their same intellectual level. And it's, it's really hard to find someone with that high of an

00:19:34.420 IQ. And these individuals are typically probably in a lab somewhere or already married. And for men

00:19:42.020 as well, I think a lot of guys have an ego and they want to seem like the smarter one in a

00:19:46.440 relationship, right? They want to seem, seem the most dominant one. And I think they're,

00:19:50.100 they're, they're put upon or they're, they're turned off by a woman that is very smart, right? 0.99

00:19:53.980 It's very, it's very emasculating. Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, that makes sense. 0.95

00:20:00.660 Fewer people out there and yeah. I mean, I understand that. I don't think I'd want to be

00:20:06.380 with somebody who I thought was dumber than me, honestly, be more attractive if they're smarter 0.99

00:20:11.280 than me, smarter than me. Like, Oh, I didn't think of that. That's fun. Instead of being like, 0.99

00:20:14.860 i've already thought of that but thank you yeah yeah i think you need a balance right i think you

00:20:20.380 need someone that is able to sort of pick up the slack so there's certain things that i don't know

00:20:24.340 that i would you know i love that my partner knows and uh and the opposite right i think it's yeah

00:20:29.240 it's that it's that balance as well that you're able to balance one another although i did have

00:20:33.200 a friend and he would always say that he had a very high iq it was like 150 or something he would

00:20:36.600 say to me where i would ask him you know if he did it go with 100 iq wouldn't as you said wouldn't

00:20:40.620 there be a communication issue? And he, I think he said very callously, I have enough intelligence

00:20:45.020 for both of us. And I said, all right, interesting. Okay. I mean, I can see that too. I think it's

00:20:51.880 probably dependent on personality too. Cause I'm sure some people like maybe your friend was just

00:20:56.440 like, it doesn't matter. I got it. I have enough IQ. My brain is good enough for both of us. Yeah.

00:21:01.400 Fair. Uh, that's good. Okay. Well, on, on, on this point as well, Michaela, I just want to say

00:21:08.260 that it's also down to preferences as well is that women typically look for men who are much

00:21:14.480 smarter than they are right they you know in terms of attractiveness the two greatest predictors of 0.55

00:21:19.480 a male attraction as in female females being attracted to males are educational attainment

00:21:24.340 and income and that's not the same for males right the two characteristics that males typically

00:21:28.520 look for are youth and fertility yes harsh but true harsh but true harsh but true

00:21:38.240 True. Okay. You said in an article, it's from my list of questions,

00:21:42.660 there's a disconnect between what women want and what's actually available to 1.00

00:21:46.480 them. Why do you think that is? 1.00

00:21:50.700 It's, it's a good, it's a good question. And I think it's not just women. 0.99

00:21:53.640 I think it's just, it's just people in general. 0.93

00:21:55.200 There's a level of entitlement that a lot of people have and what you think

00:21:59.340 you get is not often what you get in reality. 1.00

00:22:01.460 So a woman that is highly educated woman that makes quite a bit of money on a 1.00

00:22:07.200 yearly basis, you know, she, she in her mind and probably rightly so deserves a partner that, 0.99

00:22:12.960 that makes quite a bit of money and has an equal level of education. But the trouble with that is

00:22:17.720 that there are few men who fit that certain category, who fit that criteria, who can reach

00:22:22.480 that certain level. And he is most likely interested in a woman that is much younger.

00:22:27.260 So although, you know, the one feels that she can attain this partner, it's probably not the case

00:22:33.180 that she will be able to do so. So it's, it's, again, it's that disconnect between reality and

00:22:37.300 perception. I bet you make a lot of people unhappy. Uh, yeah, I don't know. I think

00:22:46.540 maybe my writing makes people uncomfortable, but I think on a daily basis, I, uh, I get on pretty

00:22:52.840 well with people sometimes. Have you gotten any backlash for anything you've written?

00:22:58.020 Yeah. I got a couple of mean emails. I think, I think one, one of my friends was very upset with

00:23:02.480 me, but you know, I just had to explain to her that these are just facts. You know, it's, I look,

00:23:06.000 I'm just recording this stuff, right? I'm not, I'm not trying to like, can I, can I swear on your

00:23:09.620 podcast? Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not trying to shut out of you. I'm not trying to ruin your day

00:23:13.220 or anything. This is just what the numbers indicate and it is what it is. Right. Yeah.

00:23:19.960 Yeah. That's good. That sounds like fun. Okay. That sounds like fun. And it's fair and like

00:23:27.560 reporting statistics too is one thing. It doesn't mean that there aren't going to be outliers.

00:23:32.480 so people don't have to particularly get offended right because it's like no on average this is

00:23:38.020 this is life right this is what it looks like i'm sure you get the same as well right i'm sure you

00:23:42.520 talk to groups of people and they're just not happy with what you have to say but it's just

00:23:45.840 this is the reality in which we live right we can't we can't go left or right

00:23:49.820 yeah i don't think i get that much oh actually that's not true i'm going to bring this up the

00:23:56.740 the most recent thing I think I freaked out about on Instagram was this,

00:24:00.940 this Leah Thomas swimming situation. And I was like, okay,

00:24:06.060 I don't really care what people do, but that's starting. 0.99

00:24:08.260 It's turning me into a feminist people. 1.00

00:24:10.360 It's turning me into a feminist.

00:24:11.940 And I had one of my friends from Toronto messaged me and they're like,

00:24:14.480 Oh, now you, now you're a swim expert. I was like, excuse me.

00:24:21.400 So, yeah, I don't know. I don't get too much negative attention.

00:24:25.320 And most of, most of it has to do with my dad. I think I can imagine, I think that that's a

00:24:30.520 double edged sword, right? Um, having a father as, as famous as Jordan Peterson has its benefits,

00:24:34.840 but of course there's a lot of drawbacks to that as well. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think in my family,

00:24:42.440 it's different. I think my brother, like the reason he's kind of stayed out of anything,

00:24:46.480 he's less extroverted than me. So that's probably the main reason, but also is he doesn't,

00:24:51.960 that doesn't want any of the negativity that comes with it because we did have a kind of

00:24:55.800 chasm with like friends splitting and it was stressful but i don't care obviously i like it

00:25:03.280 i enjoy it actively bring it on troublemakers good mentality to have this episode is brought

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00:26:43.540 first order. That's paleo valley.com with code MP for 15% off your first order. Hope you're

00:26:49.740 enjoying this episode. How have dating and the process of mate selection changed say in the last

00:26:56.600 40 years? That's a good question. So we can take our parents as an example. How did your parents

00:27:03.380 mean? They grew up next to each other and met when they were eight. Well, would you look at

00:27:08.540 that a local dominance hierarchy, right? So they, they live next to one another. They probably saw

00:27:12.780 each other every day at school, local bars, that sort of thing. Very much a local, a localized

00:27:16.580 phenomenon. The same thing with my parents, right? They didn't, they didn't live next door as your

00:27:20.300 parents did, but they live within close proximity. So the modern dating marketplace is very different

00:27:26.140 in the sense that on one hand, we have the, the globalization of the sexual marketplace and

00:27:31.280 collapse of local status hierarchies in the sense that technologies like Tinder or Instagram

00:27:37.480 make it so that you have more viable partners from which to choose from. I think that is one

00:27:44.240 significant factor. Other factors would include greater variability among males. So we talk about

00:27:49.640 greater distributions and power laws. You have more guys that are average or below average and

00:27:55.220 a very small percentage of men that make a lot of money that are very well-to-do. And these men

00:27:59.700 that are, are more desirable, uh, for women. And as well, you have a higher level of female

00:28:04.480 attainment. A lot of women are doing better relative to their male counterparts. And so

00:28:08.380 that notion of hypergamy, so women marrying upwards plays, plays an important role here 0.92

00:28:13.040 where it creates a, again, a power law distribution in the, um, in the dating world,

00:28:18.080 where there's a very small percentage of men that are desired by the outsized proportion of women.

00:28:23.740 Hmm. Yeah. Okay. So those are not, those are problems, but I don't know how to solve them.

00:28:28.280 how do you feel about the current like red pill kind of group of people? 0.95

00:28:33.540 That's I think that's a fantastic question.

00:28:35.500 And I actually thought you would ask me, ask me that.

00:28:38.660 Personally, I, I am not a part of that community.

00:28:42.180 I'm not a member of the manosphere or whatever they call it.

00:28:44.380 I'm not a joiner. So I would never, I would never join any group.

00:28:47.160 That's just not how I do things kind of just the lone wolf.

00:28:50.160 But I would say that there are some positive aspects to it.

00:28:52.980 So I know Roland Tomasi was on your podcast a little while back and I've

00:28:58.020 read some of his work and I don't know him personally, but I can say that he's very thorough

00:29:01.760 in what he writes. And there, there is a bit of truth to what he, he does, right. I think at least

00:29:07.100 looking at it from, from, from my perspective, you read the rational mail. Yeah. I, I think that

00:29:12.660 was, that is one of the foundational readings to, to, to do if you're looking to write on,

00:29:17.500 on this topic in my, in my opinion, but while that, Ooh, I've got, wait, I have a question

00:29:24.500 about that then. Um, okay. I was told, and I don't know whether this is true or not,

00:29:28.640 but I was told that there aren't actual statistics or there isn't any information

00:29:33.420 behind the statistics in that book. Is that just wrong? Is that book an accurate representation?

00:29:39.580 I don't know if that's the case. Actually. I, I remember that a lot of,

00:29:42.640 because it's been quite a while since I read those books, maybe four years ago,

00:29:46.200 I don't recall there being any, a whole load of statistics. I do remember some,

00:29:51.400 but it's more so logical arguments or specifically some,

00:29:55.680 some anecdotal examples were presented.

00:29:59.680 Okay.

00:30:00.460 Yeah.

00:30:01.520 But I suppose moving forward with the question that you've asked,

00:30:03.680 I do think that there are some positive aspects to,

00:30:06.000 to the red pill in terms of, you know,

00:30:07.780 for men bettering oneself and engaging in a positive way when it comes to

00:30:13.000 romantic relationships.

00:30:14.500 But I do think that there are some negative aspects as well,

00:30:17.420 where it does lead men to hate women in some respects, right?

00:30:22.300 It does generate that.

00:30:23.540 And I know there's some YouTube channels that cater to that sort of thing,

00:30:26.500 dunking on women, that sort of Jerry Springer-esque entertainment. 0.98

00:30:30.800 So that definitely does play a role within the red pill community, 1.00

00:30:35.480 is a hatred of women. 0.78

00:30:36.480 Instead of looking at men and women as being equal,

00:30:38.920 but different and playing specific roles within a relationship.

00:30:42.580 And that one is not complete without the other,

00:30:45.140 that you need both to have healthy relationship and create a healthy family.

00:30:50.340 Yeah. That seems like a positive way of talking about it. I think I'm, I pretty much agree with

00:30:54.880 you. Like I can definitely see benefits. And I know people who have had benefits from being in

00:31:00.600 the red pill community or listening to those videos where it's like, I was thinking about

00:31:04.400 the world completely wrong. And now I can see it for what it is. But then there are people who are

00:31:08.500 like, Oh, now I see it for what it is. Women are evil. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, that's a 1.00

00:31:14.820 fantastic point because it's just like any bit of knowledge you receive, right? It's, you can go one

00:31:18.680 of two ways with it. You can look at it in a very positive light and say, well, I can use this to

00:31:22.000 improve my life and the lives of those around me, or I could take this knowledge and do a lot of

00:31:26.960 damage with it. And, you know, it's, it's like with the pickup community in the red pill space 1.00

00:31:32.120 is that are you using it to better your romantic prospects in the sense of getting in healthy 0.66

00:31:39.860 relationships or are you just looking to get laid? Are you looking to have as much vapid sex as 0.97

00:31:45.000 possible? Yeah, exactly. Couldn't agree more. What's your goal like over the next number of 0.99

00:31:54.340 years? Like you're teaching at Cambridge. What's your life plan? My life plan? That's a good

00:31:59.380 question. You know, I never really talk about myself. I try to keep it specifically to my

00:32:02.740 ideas and to my writing, but just this once Michaela, just for you. Okay. Okay. Good. I'll

00:32:07.300 speak about my life goals. Uh, very vague and opaque, very abstract, uh, freedom and apotheosis.

00:32:13.840 So freedom, I want to be as free as possible. I want to move. I want to do what I want,

00:32:17.180 what I want with whoever I want. And nice apotheosis is just reaching the highest possible

00:32:23.100 version of being the, being the greatest possible version of myself.

00:32:26.400 okay i like it i feel like that's kind of how i feel yeah i want to do whatever i want don't bug

00:32:33.540 me about stuff make me do things i don't want to do exactly yeah i'm not worried with what other

00:32:38.740 people are doing i'm not big into social media i'm just really focused on doing my own thing and

00:32:43.520 you know living my life one day at a time and i look i have my goals as everyone else does and

00:32:47.540 i'm going to work towards those things i'm not really interested in in the fanfare or or the

00:32:51.620 social media stuff there's no there's no instagram stories there's no tweets there's no posts on

00:32:55.560 Facebook. It's just me doing my thing. I'm going to blow one of these clips up, ruin your life.

00:33:06.140 Do you think there's anything that can be done about the current imbalance in the sexual 0.99

00:33:10.780 marketplace? No. Like are there things? No, that's it. No, that's just no.

00:33:16.780 I'm sorry to be negative, but this is just how it is. Again, we're talking about reality as it were.

00:33:20.680 And I think that this sort of phenomenon just plays itself out, right?

00:33:26.100 We're on a path that is not a recent thing, right?

00:33:29.100 This has been going on since the 1960s with the invention of the birth control pill.

00:33:32.980 And it's metastasized from that.

00:33:36.060 And it's 50, 60 years in the making.

00:33:38.880 And so naturally assuming that there's a solution to this problem is incorrect.

00:33:42.260 It has to play its way out.

00:33:43.340 And I think there is some positive here, or at least a silver lining here in that if you

00:33:49.740 look at rates of crack cocaine usage in the inner cities in the 1990s, a lot of the reason or a

00:33:56.240 major reason why young children didn't do crack cocaine is because they saw the effect that it

00:34:00.580 had on their parents' generation. So I think that successive generations will look at the way the

00:34:05.240 current dating marketplace is structured and say to themselves, well, I don't want that sort of

00:34:08.640 life. And they may just be able to learn from the example set by their predecessors.

00:34:15.040 I think that makes sense. So do you think there's going to be a resurgence then in more

00:34:18.800 traditional values? Yeah, I would think so. Because when, when a system, I don't think

00:34:23.640 people are dumb per se. I think that they are under-informed or they lack knowledge on a

00:34:29.960 specific thing. And if presented with a requisite amount of knowledge, they're able to make the

00:34:34.260 right decision ultimately. And I don't think that's just at the individual level. I think

00:34:38.820 that is at the societal level. And if a lot of people are very much aware of how the dating

00:34:43.500 marketplace is structured and the deleterious effects of it, they're more than likely to

00:34:47.560 restructure the way that they go about engaging with relationships with, with the people around

00:34:51.660 them. I completely agree. And that's why freedom of speech is so important too. Cause if you just

00:34:57.800 let people have information, like we're smart enough and say on average, smart enough to look

00:35:03.780 at the information and then come to conclusions. If you have all of the information, right. And

00:35:09.800 not just a subset that pushes you in one direction. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Knowledge is incredibly

00:35:15.760 important. And as you pointed out, it's, it's, it's, it's the freedom to, to have this knowledge

00:35:19.500 accessible and be able to make decisions based off of that knowledge, whether or not you make

00:35:23.460 a mistake or make the right decision is irrelevant. As long as you're able to make decision, the

00:35:27.320 decision with the information available is all that matters. Yeah, I agree. Okay. What are your

00:35:33.360 thoughts on OnlyFans? I think it's a fantastic business model. I really do because it, you know,

00:35:40.640 on one sense, it, it does capitalize on something which is quite lucrative and that's emotional

00:35:45.700 connection. A lot of young men out there are not able to get into a relationship for a variety of

00:35:49.720 reasons. Maybe they play too much video games. Maybe they, they don't really work on themselves,

00:35:53.840 but only fans takes advantage of this particular situation. And it, it allows women specifically 1.00

00:36:00.480 to make quite a bit of money, but of course there are negative, negative aspects of it. 0.92

00:36:04.520 Right. Again, it's, it's, it, it does deal in, in, in, you know, degeneracy in, in some ways,

00:36:11.320 when a one is selling, not quite selling their body, but engaging in behavior that is not

00:36:15.920 necessarily conducive to building a healthy society, let's say. So while I don't necessarily

00:36:22.820 blame these women for the hustle, I do think that it does represent a wound within society 0.98

00:36:29.460 that this sort of industry is very popular. Although prostitution is the oldest profession,

00:36:36.080 as they say. And while OnlyFans is not prostitution, let's make that clear,

00:36:39.060 it is sort of a derivative. Yeah. Do you think there's a type of woman that can do that kind of

00:36:48.260 work? Like you said, it's not prostitution, but it's a derivative do that kind of work and not 1.00

00:36:54.380 have negative consequences later. Cause we like, yeah, I would like, it was fine. It didn't bug me.

00:36:58.820 And it was something I did when I was younger, maybe. And like, yeah, people that can handle

00:37:04.280 that? Or do you think it leaves a bad imprint period? It does. I mean, I think in one sense,

00:37:10.560 I don't know, I can't speak on the psychological aspect of it, the emotional aspect of it,

00:37:14.720 because I don't, I don't know that literature well enough. I would assume, I would assume that

00:37:18.060 it does, but I will say that, you know, the internet is forever. And if an employer is

00:37:24.080 able to look up your internet history and see that you've had an OnlyFans page,

00:37:27.440 maybe they'd be less inclined to give you a job. Maybe. 0.60

00:37:30.240 hmm this is true yeah yeah that's terrifying yeah the internet is forever that's terrifying

00:37:42.320 how would you this is this is fun how would you describe what being a simp is for people

00:37:47.820 who don't know what that means ah okay that's a good question so a simp is a uh transcendent

00:37:53.340 nice guy. He is the type of guy that placates to a woman that pedestalizes her and engages in,

00:38:01.600 in, you know, undue praise and gives gifts for the sake of receiving emotional connection and

00:38:07.400 sex. So there is no emotional connection. There is no genuine interest in a woman. He's simply

00:38:11.900 doing it because praising her and giving her gifts because he wants something in return.

00:38:17.240 So simp is, I think within modern parlance, it's, it's used to describe a male that is subservient.

00:38:23.340 Wow. That might've been the best definition of a simp that I've heard. 0.98

00:38:28.220 Thank you.

00:38:28.580 That was, yeah, I always thought that totally makes sense too. I always thought it was kind of

00:38:34.000 a man who's probably more agreeable and is, is being nice out of guilt or something,

00:38:42.460 but you think it's just a direct transaction. It's do things nice to receive sex basically.

00:38:49.080 Yes. It's, it's Machiavellian. Yeah, for sure. I think it's Machiavellian nature. And I think 0.54

00:38:52.820 the term actually is very related to the sneaky fucker syndrome. So this is used to describe 0.98

00:38:57.520 fish and specific animals in the animal kingdom that are not able to cut it. So they're not able

00:39:03.940 to reproduce with females of that specific species. So they'll look for very sneaky ways

00:39:08.860 to impregnate the species. So male goby fish, as an example, the ones that are smaller are not able

00:39:15.300 to reproduce, to fertilize eggs. The larger male goby fish are able to do so. So the smaller ones

00:39:20.640 will either hide or disguise themselves as females. And when the males are away, they'll 0.90

00:39:24.860 sneakily fertilize the eggs. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. How does that kind of thing

00:39:34.620 even evolve? It's not like these fish can think, right? They're not like, I better, better decide

00:39:39.280 I'm a female now. Screw over this big guy. Yeah. You know, I think you touch on an important point 0.99

00:39:44.000 here because I think it's all instinct and it's not only just in among animals. So goby fish,

00:39:48.640 but also, uh, human beings. There's a natural instinct to reproduce and you'll look for as

00:39:54.320 many strategies or try as many strategies as you can. And you'll find the one that works best. And

00:39:58.680 maybe simping is that option that a lot of people have. I wouldn't recommend it. I mean, if, if one

00:40:03.220 applies a bit of game theory, um, as I've done in a paper, you realize that it's, it's not,

00:40:07.740 it's not conducive to, um, to being able to have a long-term relationship. You'll probably get

00:40:11.980 played. Wow. Okay. So there's a couple of questions from that. Um, Hmm. What do I want

00:40:20.080 to start with? That's scary. So you said, I never, I never actually thought about that kind of

00:40:25.840 behavior of like a simp as Machiavellianist. Like, so you suggested that there's like danger there

00:40:32.920 ish. In a sense, I think that it is not born out of good intentions, that there's a level of

00:40:39.200 manipulation involved, which I think is the standard definition of what it means to be

00:40:43.420 Machiavellian is to be manipulative. And so it's, you're not, you're not engaging with a woman out 1.00

00:40:48.540 of necessarily a love for her. That is, that is, you know, that is pure. And that is not,

00:40:54.080 that is not based on any sort of negativity. It is more so that you're engaging with her

00:40:58.700 in order to receive something in return, which is sex or maybe even emotional connection. So

00:41:03.700 there's no, there's no genuine, genuine desire for this person beyond, beyond a base desire to

00:41:09.840 have sex. Hmm. This is why I don't trust agreeable men. Makes sense. Uh, okay. You mentioned game 0.68

00:41:19.720 theory. So can you describe what that is? I don't know if I'm familiar. I feel like I've

00:41:24.220 heard that and I've never actually delved into it. Yeah. So, so game theory is a branch of

00:41:28.760 economics or mathematics that deals with how rational actors engage with one another. So the

00:41:34.140 idea behind game theory is that there's two or three precepts where you have a set of rational

00:41:38.000 actors. They all have a set of strategies. That's the second thing. And the third thing is that you

00:41:43.280 can measure the outcomes of these strategies. So the prisms of dilemma is one such example of game

00:41:48.140 theory. It's a very popular example of two individuals are, you know, they're on the cusp

00:41:54.660 of being convicted for a murder. And they have one of two options, which is snitch on the other

00:41:59.200 person or remain silent and not snitch. And we can kind of measure the outcome of actions taken

00:42:04.380 by either individuals. How do you do that? Well, the two possible options that each

00:42:11.400 individual has is, as I said, snitch or remain silent. And there's a payoff matrix that is

00:42:17.260 attributed to all of these decisions. And the payoff matrix typically involves years in prison.

00:42:22.440 So if both people were to remain silent, you know, you might serve one year in prison,

00:42:28.520 both the two of them, if one snitches and the other one doesn't, well, the other one

00:42:32.360 gets off scot-free and the other one goes to prison for, let's say 10 years.

00:42:36.340 If both snitch on the other, well, both go to prison for five years.

00:42:40.240 So you're able to measure the potential outcome of all of these, all of these decisions that

00:42:45.260 are made by both actors.

00:42:48.540 Cool.

00:42:49.440 Okay.

00:42:49.820 I feel like I learned this kind of thing in statistics.

00:42:52.440 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's cool. I'll take your, your Peterson Academy statistics course.

00:42:59.540 Statistics is fascinating. I thought it was fascinating. And then you can read

00:43:02.600 papers. And when it says something like one standard deviation, you're not like,

00:43:06.260 I'll just skim over that. Yes. Yes. I, I, I completely agree. I think there needs to be

00:43:10.480 a base, as I said, a base level of knowledge that the average person has on statistics,

00:43:13.980 because it allows them to interrogate data. It allows them to interrogate findings that they

00:43:18.660 hop upon because I think that there's a lot of chicanery and bullshit that a lot of social 1.00

00:43:23.620 scientists engage in when they conduct these studies. It's the primary reason I think why 1.00

00:43:27.700 we have a replication crisis in the social sciences is that you have a lot of social

00:43:31.820 scientists that don't do a very thorough job in the way they conduct these statistics.

00:43:37.260 So if the average person were to be able to read these statistics cogently and understand what is

00:43:42.080 being presented and the methods being used, they'd be better able to interrogate the findings and

00:43:46.120 decide for themselves whether or not the findings were accurate or not do you think that's useful

00:43:52.480 also if you're not a nerd no offense or anything i'm a nerd too but i mean for like the average

00:43:57.400 person is it still useful if you're just reading mainstream media articles or anything definitely

00:44:01.980 definitely and in fairness i'm a geek so i think chris chris wilson and i had this really odd

00:44:06.500 discussion about it and i got a lot of flags from people about being geek or a nerd we don't have

00:44:10.840 to go over what what's the difference between a geek and a nerd okay well i sorry you started it

00:44:16.720 okay it's true i did start it so a friend of mine james or i think you're familiar with james

00:44:21.360 yeah his daughter honor or uh wanted to find out whether or not um an insult for her brother was

00:44:28.640 the most accurate but she couldn't decide whether or not he was a dork a nerd or a geek and she's 0.93

00:44:33.420 like you're a math guy sit down and figure out the difference between these two things and you

00:44:37.360 know, I actually sat down and try to categorize them in very, in a very particular and accurate

00:44:41.840 way. It's amazing. Yeah. So what I did was that I created a, a, a hierarchy and it's based off

00:44:48.520 of requisite characteristics. So a geek is a person that has function, functional utility

00:44:54.000 and intellectualism. So you can think about a coder, someone like Elon Musk, for example,

00:44:58.320 right. They actually provide a product that people can use, you know, Tesla, for example.

00:45:03.400 And there's, there's a bit of intellectualism involved because, you know, there's some coding,

00:45:07.120 there's some numbers, there's some math. And that's what a geek is. Now, a nerd is a person

00:45:11.980 that has intellectualism, but lacks functional utility. So you can think about a person that

00:45:17.120 studies 18th century poetry or like 14th century Russian literature or something. It has no impact

00:45:23.620 on society at large. Like the average person doesn't benefit from it, but there is that level

00:45:28.060 of intellectual rigor and a dork has neither. There's no intellectual rigor or any function 0.62

00:45:34.780 utility and it's not to say that you can be just one or the other you can fit in all categories i

00:45:39.680 mean there's certain things i like that are entirely nerdy or dirty or dorky that's hilarious

00:45:46.320 so then would you assume that most people who do some sort of science are

00:45:51.740 they're geeks but yeah people in the humanities yeah are they also geeks or are they exactly that

00:45:58.200 exactly that so the benefit of being cambridge is that you run into all these people all the time

00:46:01.940 And a lot of my friends are in the humanities and I refer to them as nerds.

00:46:06.700 And they say that, Oh, you're not a nerd. You're not a nerd. You do math all day.

00:46:09.820 I'm like, yeah, I'm a geek. I'm not saying that I'm not, I'm better than you guys.

00:46:12.800 I'm just saying that there's a diff there's a,

00:46:14.340 there's a minute difference between what you do and what I do. 0.91

00:46:18.060 Mine is useful and you're a nerd. Yeah, exactly.

00:46:23.080 I solve crime. That's you read poetry.

00:46:26.640 That's hilarious. Okay. So do you actually help solve crime?

00:46:31.940 Well, I, I just help provide insight and I train, I train law enforcement, um, uh, I train analysts

00:46:37.800 and police officers. So at some point down the line, yeah, I would say so that I, I help to

00:46:42.980 equip individuals with methods that they can use to help solve crime or help police organizations

00:46:47.960 allocate resources better. Wow. That's pretty cool. How long have you been doing this for?

00:46:54.520 Is this new? Yeah, about a year and a half. I mean, I'm, I'm fresh out of a PhD,

00:46:57.740 so I've been I've been doing this it's my job so you grad and you graduated from Cambridge and

00:47:03.300 then immediately started teaching yeah wow that's pretty impressive thanks what do you think men

00:47:12.060 want in a woman what men want a woman that's a fantastic and it's vague but like no it's a great

00:47:17.800 question because I was actually thinking of writing a it's probably not going to happen

00:47:21.780 anymore but I was thinking of writing a two-part series on what women want and what men want so

00:47:27.460 two, two distinct papers. And I think, again, going back to, to what men want, I think youth

00:47:33.940 and fertility are two big things, but I think at a very base level, men want affection. They want

00:47:39.900 to be loved and they want to be respected. I think that's what they're looking for in

00:47:42.800 relationships. I mean, you know, there's a number of other things that I think are important. I

00:47:47.780 think the loyalty is incredibly important as well. I think men are also looking for a level

00:47:51.440 of femininity. They're looking for value compatibility, having the same sort of values

00:47:55.660 and beliefs. Collegiality, I think is a big one as well, whether or not you get along with your

00:48:01.240 partner. But again, these are general things that I don't think they're necessarily about

00:48:05.380 what men want specifically. I think both genders or both sexes would look for that in the opposite

00:48:09.400 sex. What do you think women want? What do I think women want? That was going to be part of 1.00

00:48:14.540 the paper, right? Yeah. I mean, look, hypergamy is a big part of it, right? A woman wants a man

00:48:20.840 that makes X amount of dollars is, is tall, is, is, uh, you know, socially calibrated, 0.93

00:48:26.380 has a good social network, but those are all sort of physical things, right? They're all very

00:48:31.300 tangible, but at the same time, she's just really looking for protection and, and, uh, and safety.

00:48:35.920 I think loyalty is a big part of it as well. Uh, trust, affection, that sort of thing. We're,

00:48:41.080 you know, we're all animals at the end of the day. And although we are different sexes in

00:48:45.440 that sense, we are all after the same sort of thing.

00:48:50.840 Yeah. I think that's important for people to remember too, because there's a lot of talk I

00:48:54.540 know in the more, like probably more conservative circles, like the differences and everything.

00:48:59.440 And then in more liberal circles, it's like, it's the same, but what would you say though?

00:49:04.620 You know, if I were to ask you, what do you think men are after?

00:49:09.400 Oh man, I don't even, I don't know. Okay. Just like from my experience and like having

00:49:13.880 male friends and talking to people. Um, I don't think you're off by like,

00:49:20.840 respect for sure. You don't want to be with somebody who doesn't respect you.

00:49:24.840 Then there's no attraction there. Right. So respect. And then I would say most people want

00:49:30.420 love and affection. Like life is pretty hard to do by yourself. Even if I think even for people

00:49:36.560 who don't have a hard life, it's still kind of sucks to do by yourself. So you're looking for

00:49:41.200 love and affection. And that probably comes more for men with respect. Um, I'd probably put those

00:49:49.040 three. And then for women, I think you are probably right about that too. Feeling safe

00:49:56.720 is a big one. As soon as you don't feel safe, it's like, I suppose you can carry that on for

00:50:01.580 a while. Cause it can be exciting a little bit, but I mean, that's not long-term like you want

00:50:06.660 to feel safe, but not bored. Yeah. I think it's safety, safety and security. And those aren't

00:50:13.500 necessarily the same things, right? Um, safety is more of a physical thing and security may be

00:50:18.540 economic thing. And it could also be an emotional thing as well, where you're, you're, you feel safe

00:50:23.440 being with this person in the sense that you can tell them anything. Yeah. Do you think that goes

00:50:29.820 for men too? Do men care about that as much? Like I think women, I think too, because women

00:50:34.360 are probably more prone to negative emotion, you know, on average and more agreeable that

00:50:38.800 if you get a negative response from someone, if you're like, oh, this is something I did,

00:50:43.880 or this is how I feel. And then you get a negative response from that. I know my reaction is to be

00:50:49.240 like, maybe I should just avoid that topic. And I'm pretty disagreeable for a woman. And I still 1.00

00:50:55.320 get, I mean, so maybe that's just how people react. Yeah. I think certainly, at least in my

00:51:01.980 case, I'm more than happy to have a difficult conversation. I'm more than happy to rip the

00:51:05.260 bandaid off and just talk about something despite it being very uncomfortable. I think that's,

00:51:09.260 that's important in relationship regardless of whether or not it's romantic you have to be able

00:51:14.320 to communicate and have very difficult conversations i think regardless of whether or not you're a man

00:51:19.520 or a woman is just it's just a good quality to have in a relationship yeah i completely agree

00:51:25.560 i know as a woman it's easier if your partner doesn't freak out yeah like if you're like this

00:51:31.920 is a problem and they go ah then you're like whoa okay maybe that's a touchy subject that's a little

00:51:38.000 scary. So yeah, I think that's just good to have in a relationship is, Hey, can we talk about

00:51:42.660 things under the assumption that we're going to both work on fixing them rather than being mad

00:51:47.900 at each other and just sort through them. So we don't have to deal with this forever.

00:51:50.800 Definitely. I think a good question here. And I wonder, I wonder what you think is that

00:51:54.680 what are some of the things that you, you would say are, are, are characteristics that

00:52:00.520 would define a healthy relationship or things to have?

00:52:02.840 characteristics to define a healthy relationship.

00:52:11.520 Well, like I said, I think feeling safe is important, especially for the woman. And I

00:52:18.060 think if you feel safe, you're more likely to bring up difficult topics. So you're like,

00:52:22.120 this is what's bugging me. Or I think we need to work on this. If you feel safe,

00:52:25.600 then you can bring those up. But if you don't feel safe, you're not going to be able to bring

00:52:28.700 those up. And then honesty, for sure. Like, um, I, I think one of the difficulties I've had with

00:52:37.480 relationships is not saying things that need to be said. And especially when I was like,

00:52:43.200 it's different. I'm 30 now. So I'm just, it's just different now, but like 22 or something

00:52:48.420 when I, if I didn't talk about something that was going on, I kind of thought it might go away.

00:52:53.500 And that's having my dad as my dad telling me from when I was a kid being like, you have to say

00:52:59.860 things you have to tell the truth. But I was like, well, if I don't say something, is that lying?

00:53:05.280 Like not really, but it turns out it doesn't go away. Right. So yeah, it's tricky. What do you

00:53:11.660 think? Yeah. I, I would say that communication we discussed that I think is a very important

00:53:18.260 element. You have to be able to communicate with your partner. I would say that kindness

00:53:21.400 is incredibly important. I see this on a lot of relationship where people are just not kind to

00:53:24.960 their partner. I don't, I don't understand it because your dad actually speaks about this,

00:53:28.380 where he says that kindness is important because you don't want to put the other person down

00:53:32.960 because it, it creates an imbalance in the relationship where this person is looking

00:53:37.040 to get back at you and you devalue that person. So you're in a relationship with a person that

00:53:41.760 is now lowered because of your actions. So kindness is incredibly important. I would say

00:53:46.880 that space is important as well.

00:53:49.000 I think you are, yes, you're one unit,

00:53:51.380 but you're also individuals

00:53:52.520 and it's important to be able to do your own thing

00:53:54.200 and have space and not have to be totally reliant

00:53:56.460 on the other individual and just be clingy.

00:53:58.740 And finally, I would say presence

00:54:01.280 is also important as well.

00:54:03.160 You'll go to, you know, I'll go to restaurants

00:54:05.180 and I'll see couples with one another

00:54:06.880 and one person is on their phone

00:54:08.640 or both people are on their phone.

00:54:10.080 They're not engaging with one another.

00:54:11.520 And I think that it's just important

00:54:13.240 to be with the person

00:54:14.040 and be completely present when you're there.

00:54:16.880 okay that was more succinct than my version for for kindness too

00:54:23.300 i think there's there's probably usually some problems behind there like if you're being mean

00:54:28.940 why would you be mean to someone that you're with right and if you're trying to bring up a

00:54:34.800 sensitive topic like yeah be nice about it that's reasonable be kind yeah yeah be kind i think it's 0.94

00:54:40.760 no one likes a dick right just in general just don't don't be a dick to people and people will 0.91

00:54:45.380 returning kind. Yeah. And you mentioned space. So did you, do you remember with your personality 0.99

00:54:52.660 test? Did you come off as you must be fairly disagreeable? Oh my God. Yeah. I scored pretty,

00:54:57.420 pretty, pretty, uh, pretty low on a agreeable. Okay. I feel like I can just hear that in your

00:55:03.720 voice. It's good. I like, I get along with disagreeable people. I feel like you can trust

00:55:08.220 not to like denigrate agreeable people because,

00:55:11.960 but I feel like you can trust disagreeable people because if you remove the

00:55:17.120 emotions, then they're just going to tell you what the truth is rather than

00:55:20.480 lying.

00:55:21.900 Very true. Very true. I think you're right about that.

00:55:24.420 So agreeable people, they just,

00:55:25.780 they go along to get along and they're the type of people that tell you what

00:55:29.280 you want to hear as opposed to what you need to hear because they'd rather not

00:55:32.600 rock the boat. Right. Again, they're just,

00:55:34.320 they're completely agreeable and disagreeable. 0.99

00:55:36.160 disagreeable person doesn't give a shit. Just tell you how it is. Yeah. You're doing, I'd rather 0.99

00:55:41.420 have, I'd rather have friends that would tell me what I needed to hear as opposed to what I wanted

00:55:46.020 to hear. And I think, I think that is, that is incredibly important. I bet though, I know when

00:55:51.820 I was, um, I used to have really severe depression and I was on medication and everything. And when

00:55:56.120 I was like that, when I was depressed, um, it was way harder like to hear things that hurt my

00:56:01.940 feelings. And, and also interestingly, I was very concerned about hurting other people's feelings.

00:56:06.900 So that was when, like I said, I was younger and I was like, maybe I shouldn't talk about this

00:56:10.580 because I don't know if it's going to hurt the other person's feelings. Right. And I, it bothered

00:56:14.340 me like actively physically made me anxious, hurting somebody else's feelings. And now that

00:56:20.880 I'm honestly, now that I'm healthier. Um, and I, like I said, I don't mean to denigrate agreeable

00:56:25.620 people, but now that I'm healthier, it doesn't, I don't have an emotional reaction to necessarily

00:56:31.640 telling somebody the truth, even if it hurts their feelings, like you don't go out of your way,

00:56:35.540 right. Be kind, but it doesn't like, I don't have the angst associated with it. Like I used to.

00:56:41.400 Yes. Yes. And you're right. So I, I w I would say that it's also a matter of how you say things

00:56:47.020 because being disagreeable could be, could be you conveying a truth, but how you convey that

00:56:52.720 truth also matters. So instead of telling, instead of telling your friend, dude, you fucking suck. 1.00

00:56:56.160 You're horrible. You can instead say, you're not quite doing this. Correct. Um, you know, 1.00

00:57:00.660 have you thought about doing it this way? So it's, it's, it's how you,

00:57:03.480 how you present the idea that it matters just as much as, as what the idea is.

00:57:09.360 That's a good point. That's a good, yeah, that's a good point.

00:57:12.840 I should probably bring that up to some of my more disagreeable friends too,

00:57:15.620 because I have some people and they're so disagreeable. They're like, who cares?

00:57:18.940 Right. Literally at the point where they're like, well, it's the truth.

00:57:22.520 So who cares? Why are you hurt? It's the truth. And it's like,

00:57:24.940 you didn't have to just slap them with it.

00:57:28.120 Right. Right. You're, you're not going to win a political campaign just on, 0.88

00:57:31.380 on facts and logic alone.

00:57:32.780 You're going to have to be able to show some heart, right?

00:57:34.500 It's about hearts and minds.

00:57:37.020 Yeah, definitely. And you mentioned space too. I'm so extroverted.

00:57:42.140 Like that's not even a good agreeable. Cause like I said,

00:57:44.360 I'm not particularly agreeable,

00:57:45.280 but I'm so extroverted that I don't want to be by myself at all.

00:57:48.500 Like the reason I started the entire podcast was because I was like

00:57:51.640 stuck at home in Canada during lockdown. And I was like,

00:57:55.080 I need to talk to people. Like I can't do this. Right.

00:57:57.400 I can't be like by myself. I feel like when I'm in a, like a good relationship,

00:58:02.200 I'm currently in a good relationship. Thank God.

00:58:04.640 But I don't want to be by myself at all.

00:58:08.080 And I don't, I feel like space doesn't exist for me.

00:58:10.520 I think it's an extroversion thing. I'm like,

00:58:11.980 I could just be doing my own thing,

00:58:13.660 but as long as I'm right next to somebody else.

00:58:16.060 Right. I like parties where I'm able to leave. Like I, I, I'm like,

00:58:20.700 seriously, like I'm happy. I'm happy hanging out with people, you know,

00:58:23.660 when, when I want to, but I need my space.

00:58:26.300 I need to be able to work and do my own thing and just have a bit of

00:58:28.300 headspace. So I would say that, you know,

00:58:30.880 you need to have a bit of balance with the two, at least,

00:58:32.860 at least from my perspective, I, I do,

00:58:35.760 I did score very high in terms of extroversion, but at the same time,

00:58:38.900 I am a very private person. You know, I keep things to myself,

00:58:42.720 or at least I have, I have someone that I speak to about those things.

00:58:45.660 And you know, that, that's, that's just me. It's prefer a bit of privacy.

00:58:50.700 I do not. Apparently I was always like that though.

00:58:55.320 I had a roommate in university too. And it was like, she was, I don't know what we literally

00:58:59.780 like for a while slept in the same bed. It wasn't a sexual thing, but it was like,

00:59:03.440 you're going to bed in the other room. I'm in the bed in this room and we can't talk to each

00:59:07.180 other. So like, right. That seems silly. Couldn't you just pull up a chair or something?

00:59:12.580 Um, yeah, probably we didn't. So did you say you're not planning on finishing that written

00:59:18.280 piece? I feel like that written piece could be popular. No, it probably will be popular.

00:59:22.620 but the thing is, is that this whole public intellectual stuff, I just do it for fun. I mean,

00:59:26.860 I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone. I'm just doing it out of really out of intellectual

00:59:30.560 curiosity and trying to inform people on something that I think is important and that could potentially

00:59:35.900 be a problem down the line. And the issue with that is that there's a lot of things that I'm

00:59:40.180 working on on a daily basis and time and cognitive capital are the two most important things I think

00:59:46.300 that a person has. And I, I just don't have the time and cognitive capital to, to conduct a full

00:59:52.200 scale research project, because I'll be honest with you. It takes, it takes weeks to research

00:59:57.320 these projects, these papers. It's, it really is like a academic research paper. And that time

01:00:03.700 spent could be spent helping police organizations reduce crime or helping a student with their

01:00:09.600 thesis. You know, it's all about, again, it's all about perspective, but it's just, it's just a

01:00:13.500 matter of time and cognitive capital. And it's not infinite in my case. Interesting. Okay. That

01:00:19.040 makes sense that makes sense so you said when you teach statistics you use real real world examples

01:00:25.360 try and keep things interesting so it's not just all math basically okay cool I'll take that course

01:00:34.620 then that's that's cool that's good that's good okay well I ran through all my questions

01:00:41.120 Vincent is there anything else you want to talk about that you think could be interesting well

01:00:46.880 I, I, um, I am writing a paper. I'm working on a paper on, um, sort of the future of the West

01:00:54.740 based off of dating dynamics. And it was a conversation that I had with Chris Williamson,

01:01:00.260 uh, on his podcast about what the possible effect of, of this imbalance in the sexual

01:01:06.040 marketplace will be. And Chris and I sort of came to the conclusion where we sort of got to

01:01:11.780 the point where we said that there, there are going to be significant problems down the line

01:01:15.660 where you have a, a large number of men who are without a mate.

01:01:21.060 And that does not bode well for a society.

01:01:23.080 If you have a bunch of hapless listless men that are out there unmotivated and that has

01:01:28.920 the potential to, to completely tear society apart.

01:01:33.240 And so I think, I think it's an important idea, an important talking point that we need

01:01:38.160 to be speaking more about as a society.

01:01:41.540 But you don't think there's a solution.

01:01:43.500 I don't, I think exactly that.

01:01:45.200 So it's, it's, it, I don't think that there's a, there's a straightforward solution.

01:01:48.840 I think, as I said, it plays its way, uh, it'll play its way through, but at the same

01:01:54.760 time, it's important to be very cognizant of these, uh, of these, um, potential problem

01:01:59.540 of this potential problem, because it still allows you to set up barriers and not potential

01:02:04.680 solutions, but sort of buffer zones as it were.

01:02:08.580 Yeah.

01:02:09.580 Do you think it's going to get significantly worse before it starts to write itself significantly?

01:02:14.420 Significantly. I think this is how a lot of phenomena play themselves out is that things typically get worse before they get better. I don't think we've reached the zenith of this issue just quite yet. Because if you look in antiquity, there is a 0.71 correlation between a sexual imbalance where there's more men than women and authoritarian regimes.

01:02:39.340 And it's probably the case that a lot of these men have a tendency of voting for authoritarian

01:02:43.560 regimes, but it's probably the case that the reason why these authoritarian regimes remain

01:02:48.420 intact is because they need to be able to keep these men from committing violence.

01:02:55.560 Interesting.

01:02:56.640 Yeah.

01:02:57.900 Wow.

01:02:58.780 Okay.

01:02:59.200 That's cool.

01:03:00.420 Do you think that's why Canada keeps voting for Trudeau?

01:03:04.460 I'm not sure.

01:03:05.360 Just kidding.

01:03:06.220 I'm not sure.

01:03:07.160 and maybe nowadays to authoritarianism looks a little different than it used to

01:03:11.780 yeah like yeah okay but that's the thing though is that it's it's i i'm sure people in the 1930s

01:03:19.780 in nazi germany thought the same way where they said that you know it could be just confiscation

01:03:24.080 of houses it's not quite jackboots things can change very quickly in a short period of time

01:03:28.140 right societies if you if you read a lot of literature on societal collapse one of the main

01:03:32.740 things that becomes evident is that civilizations are not permanent, right? They're very, they're

01:03:37.320 very fallible. They're very frigid. They're, they're rigid. They're excuse me. They're they're

01:03:41.320 not rigid. They can break apart in a very short period of time over a number of generations.

01:03:46.300 And all that is required is, is a slow and inexorable decline.

01:03:52.500 That's so scary. I was just talking to my dad about that too. Cause I was like, things are,

01:03:56.920 I was like, I, I left Canada. Right. And like, things are sketchy.

01:04:02.400 Like they're implementing some laws there that are pretty overreaching.

01:04:07.060 And then this thing with the truckers bank accounts happened.

01:04:09.540 And it's just like, I think things are sketchy. And I was like, is this gonna,

01:04:12.780 is this really going to get worse? And my dad made the point. He was like, yeah,

01:04:17.300 well when Hitler was in power, like not to do a direct comparison, 0.81

01:04:21.000 but things just devolved in like a decade to a crazy point. 0.82

01:04:25.660 I was like, yikes. You'd think that that wouldn't necessarily happen again now that we have that

01:04:31.440 experience to look at. So hopefully it doesn't, but life's pretty weird right now.

01:04:36.540 Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I I'd say that again, you know, going back to the topic of

01:04:41.420 societal collapse is that I think what becomes clear when you read a lot of this literature is

01:04:46.080 that it's about the maintenance of institutions. So if you can't, if you're not, if a society is

01:04:52.780 not able to pass on knowledge of how to maintain institutions from one generation to the next,

01:04:57.120 society is going to fall apart. And so, you know, the Roman empire, a lot of studies were

01:05:01.680 one, one ethnographic analysis. Well, it's not one, but it's, it's quite a large study

01:05:06.220 looked at pottery in the Roman empire. And you can see that the decline of the empire was

01:05:12.160 tracked by the sophistication and the amount of pottery that was created by the empire,

01:05:16.380 members of the empire. And the idea here is that they sort of lost the knowledge over time.

01:05:20.000 They didn't have the ability to create really beautiful pieces of art.

01:05:23.640 And I think the same thing applies to other institutions is that the family, if we want

01:05:27.420 to think about it as an institution, has to remain intact.

01:05:30.360 We have to be able to create new successive generations that are capable of engaging in

01:05:34.760 the family unit.

01:05:35.820 And as far as I can see, we're not able to do that.

01:05:38.160 We're not able to produce children that want to get married when they're older, want to

01:05:42.160 be parents, want to live in a happy and healthy family.

01:05:46.160 and civilizations are built upon the backs of healthy civilizations are built upon the backs

01:05:51.920 of healthy families and if you don't have healthy families you don't have a civilization

01:05:54.980 yeah well i hope things reverse for a while rather than continuing to devolve you just want

01:06:04.220 to see chaos no why i i'm like carrie sheldon uh i i don't want to see chaos but that'll probably

01:06:11.580 be what will happen more than likely i hope it doesn't happen i hope i'm wrong i hope i'm wrong

01:06:15.700 but with the way things are shaping up i don't i don't necessarily see a bright future per se

01:06:20.680 i don't know how i feel about it i don't feel very good about canada that's for sure

01:06:26.800 i hope things reverse as well oh well we will see we'll see okay vincent are you anywhere online is

01:06:34.880 there anywhere i can direct people to go if they want to fall okay you just you just exist

01:06:38.460 podcast to podcast randomly popping up i don't i don't really do social media as i said there

01:06:44.040 there are no instagram stories there's no tweets there's no facebook posts i think you got to go

01:06:49.260 you're not going to share my you're not going to share my instagram clips i'll get my friends to

01:06:53.360 do it i'll get it wrong nice okay he's pretty popular he's smart guy great did you call james 0.83

01:07:00.860 or a nerd yeah he's a nerd i'll say to his face actually all the time like you're such a nerd

01:07:06.080 and he's like, yeah, no, thank you, Keith. 0.92

01:07:11.240 Did you, that's great.

01:07:13.320 Okay, well, thank you very much for coming on.

01:07:15.660 That was fun.

01:07:16.440 Yeah, well, absolutely.

01:07:17.200 I really appreciate the invite, Michaela.

01:07:18.500 It was a great conversation.

01:07:19.640 I hope we can do it again.

01:07:21.380 We will, for sure.

01:07:36.080 Thank you.

The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - April 22, 2022

146. Is The Red Pill Community Right About Marriage, Sex & Dating？｜ Vincent Harinam

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Transcript

The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - April 22, 2022

146. Is The Red Pill Community Right About Marriage, Sex & Dating？ ｜ Vincent Harinam

Episode Stats

People

Transcript

146. Is The Red Pill Community Right About Marriage, Sex & Dating？｜ Vincent Harinam