The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - Doctor Does the Carnivore Diet for 6 Years ｜ Dr. Shawn Baker 167

00:00:00.000 I think the nice thing is people are looking at nutrition now and saying, wait a minute,

00:00:04.100 maybe they weren't right about that either. You know, as we're seeing the sort of the push to

00:00:07.300 the plant-based diet and even the insect-based diet, insects are disgusting for a reason.

00:00:11.500 One of the things I tell people is I don't know if the climate has changed. I have no way of

00:00:14.720 really determining that myself. I can't walk outside and say, it looks like the climate's

00:00:18.040 changing because it's raining or it's snowing or it's got hot. I can't do that. But what I can do

00:00:23.000 is I can look in the mirror and I can say, hey, look, I feel better. Everything is better for me

00:00:28.600 And no one can hide that from me.

00:00:31.160 No amount of gas lining is going to make me not understand that I'm healthier.

00:00:36.860 I think that's a valid way to do that.

00:00:45.380 This episode of the podcast was sponsored by Better Fed Beef,

00:00:49.120 the company that has saved me from just eating lamb.

00:00:53.040 Lamb was easier on my stomach because I can't tolerate aged meat,

00:00:57.100 So I ate lamb for two years on the lion diet, which I did because it's easier to be healthy

00:01:02.320 than it is to eat yummy things.

00:01:04.780 Health is always easier than eating yummy things.

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00:02:18.480 I hope you enjoy this episode.

00:02:25.320 Dr. Sean Baker, welcome back to my podcast.

00:02:32.280 Mikael, thanks. It's good to be back. Good to see you again. Glad to see you doing so well.

00:02:36.620 Yeah, thank you. I am doing well. It's good. A huge part of that is because of diet. Most of

00:02:42.980 that is because of diet. But before we get into that, can you give a brief background about who

00:02:47.680 you are and what it is you do for anybody who's not familiar with who you are?

00:02:51.900 Well, yeah, my name is Dr. Sean Baker.

00:02:53.780 I am by training an orthopedic surgeon.

00:02:56.340 About 10 years ago, I got interested in diet and nutrition for my own personal reasons.

00:03:01.100 Sawed a lot of benefits, you know, tried different variations of very different, all kinds of different diets.

00:03:06.160 Ended up with a low-carb diet.

00:03:08.660 At one point, I went on a ketogenic diet.

00:03:10.500 Started to see a lot of improvements on patients that I was trying it on that had various orthopedic conditions and seemed to help significantly with joint pain.

00:03:17.180 eventually i uh you know discovered a group of people that were doing an all meat diet

00:03:21.860 and i started doing that myself even as crazy as it sounds this is about a little over six years

00:03:26.560 ago and um you know if you wrote a book called the carnivore diet i actually named this thing

00:03:31.740 the carnivore diet you know what before it was called the zero carb diet i think and i've been

00:03:36.400 eating you know basically a pretty much a all meat diet or very close to it for the last six

00:03:41.440 plus years. And, you know, I've been basically an advocate for meat and the diet. And we've seen,

00:03:47.880 you know, as you know, thousands and thousands of people now that have resolved all sorts of

00:03:52.460 health issues, you know, whether it's autoimmune conditions, whether it's gut issues, whether it's

00:03:56.760 arthritis, whether it's mental health issues, you know, diabetes, on and on and on. So that's been

00:04:01.880 where I'm at. I am the co-founder of a company called Rivero. And our mission is to reverse

00:04:07.140 chronic disease, get people off meds. And we are, you know, just at the point where we're scaling

00:04:11.420 up and having a lot of success with that. So that's kind of me in a, you know, in a quick

00:04:16.580 overview. Okay. Amazing. So as you know, the reason that I was comfortable switching onto a

00:04:25.280 meat diet is somebody sent me your episode with Joe Rogan many years ago. And I was at the point

00:04:32.080 where I was eating like meat and lettuce but I hadn't dropped the lettuce because I had like at

00:04:38.640 that point I was breastfeeding and I thought the lettuce was what was giving me the vitamins I like

00:04:43.280 I needed it's like at least I have some plant in my diet and it wasn't working for me and I

00:04:48.780 was arthritic and depressed and I was itchy everywhere and I couldn't get my symptoms

00:04:54.080 under control and it was just like oh yeah well there's this doctor he's been doing it for years

00:04:58.000 and it was like that day where I was like okay good like if that's doable then I'll try it and

00:05:04.460 so I'm coming up on five years of just eating ruminant meat which is part of the reason I had

00:05:11.500 you back on five years time flies so alive look at that you haven't dropped out of scurvy or

00:05:16.880 anything it's amazing no I haven't and so I thought we could talk a little bit about what

00:05:23.080 you're doing with your company, and also cover some carnivore basics for anybody who's looking

00:05:30.080 to get started and just needs a little push. But I think first, what exactly is Rivero, and

00:05:36.400 what are you trying to do with it? Yeah, so we are a digital healthcare company.

00:05:41.080 You know, our goal is to basically take people that are sick, that are, you know, like, you know,

00:05:45.600 as opposed to the normal healthcare system, you go and you're sick, and most of the time,

00:05:49.560 You come out with some sort of medication, maybe you get a procedure, and that's sort of the paradigm that we've been in now for the last, you know, 30, 40 years in medicine.

00:05:58.060 And I think medicine has strayed away from its original course.

00:06:01.160 It's now become really just a big business, and it's really kind of a, you know, kind of a subcontractor for the pharmaceutical industry.

00:06:08.320 I mean, most physicians, you know, they get all the training based, you know, from pharmaceutical companies that wrote a lot of the curriculums.

00:06:15.540 We found, as you know, I mean, there's ways to get people off medications actually to, in many cases, reverse the diseases.

00:06:23.520 And so that's our mission.

00:06:24.380 So everybody that works for us, all our providers, know from the beginning that is the goal.

00:06:28.480 The goal is to get these people off medications, get them truly healthy, as opposed to what normally might happen.

00:06:34.480 And so we have a team of software engineers.

00:06:37.920 We have health care providers.

00:06:40.040 We have coaches.

00:06:40.820 One of the problems a lot of physicians face is, you know, maybe they want to try lifestyle, but they don't really, they're not really supported in that.

00:06:46.920 There's no, there's no sort of mechanism by which to get people, you know, the facilities and the resources they need.

00:06:54.260 And so we're going to be that.

00:06:55.860 And so all of our physicians are on board.

00:06:58.020 They're not afraid of people eating meat.

00:07:00.480 In many cases, they'll encourage that.

00:07:02.680 And so that's what we're doing.

00:07:04.380 uh you know we raised quite a bit of money and quite a bit of capital initially from crowd equity

00:07:08.880 and then also quite a bit venture capital money from that so our goal right now is you know we're

00:07:13.380 we'll later this you know well later this year early next year we'll start opening in several

00:07:19.600 states and then the goal eventually would be nationwide and hopefully globally within a few

00:07:23.780 years so that is kind of the overview wow cool congratulations thanks yeah wow that's huge

00:07:32.480 that would have been very helpful back in the day. Yeah. If I, if I heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. No,

00:07:40.840 that, that's a, that's fantastic. Okay. So people listening, if they decide they want to give it a

00:07:45.440 shot and they want some guidance, that's a place you can go to learn more about the diet. Yeah.

00:07:51.120 That's cool. It's also important because a lot of people are on medications and, you know,

00:07:55.200 you need a physician to deprescribe medications. And, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the people

00:07:58.740 coming off medications can potentially, you know, run into trouble, you know, if they come off

00:08:03.640 a diabetic med or a hypertensive med or something, you know, psychiatric meds, you know, you have to

00:08:09.640 wean them sensibly and, you know, legally you have to, you can't, you know, a health coach can't just

00:08:15.300 say, hey, stop taking your meds because that's considered the practice of medicine. So we have

00:08:19.900 we have to set this up in the system, you know, follow all the regulatory rules that are in place

00:08:26.640 And so, but you need to, you do need a physician support because a lot of people that, as you

00:08:31.100 know, they go on a coronal war diet and their physician doesn't support them.

00:08:33.840 They tell them, Hey, it's crazy.

00:08:35.160 You need to, you know, the funny thing is, you know, a lot of people say, well, why is

00:08:39.900 it so bad?

00:08:40.460 Well, I'll say, well, you know, you might be increasing your risk for heart disease.

00:08:42.960 And you say, well, what do all your other patients die of?

00:08:46.480 And it's like, well, heart disease.

00:08:47.880 So it's like, you know, why, why, you know, I've improved my quality of life.

00:08:51.400 I've, you know, gotten off all these medications.

00:08:52.760 I feel significantly better.

00:08:54.340 and you're telling me I should stop because I might die of the same thing that everybody else

00:08:59.260 died of. I mean, it's, it's just kind of crazy in my view. Anyway, having that position, it's

00:09:03.700 crazy. And as you know, and you've, I know you've been maligned as I have, you know, so you didn't

00:09:08.700 really have rheumatoid arthritis or you didn't have these things and you didn't walk around with

00:09:12.340 a hip replacement and a revision knee or revision ankle rather. And I'm like, of course you did.

00:09:16.720 Yeah. But you know, when you have support and including physician support, the likelihood of

00:09:22.000 being successful goes up tremendously and so we want to provide that support support for people

00:09:26.500 that want to do something like this and just to be clear rivero is not going to be strictly

00:09:31.120 carnivore there's going to be people there's going to be different sort of nutritional therapies

00:09:35.640 depending upon what the actual uh position person's uh circumstances you know and we were using a lot

00:09:42.600 of these powerful uh artificial intelligence algorithms to help figure that out because we've

00:09:46.700 got lots and lots of data on people that have done these elimination diets reintroduce stuff

00:09:50.700 and we see some people can do this safely, some people can't, and it's really the individual

00:09:55.180 person and the human conditions are different. That's fantastic. That's fantastic because

00:10:00.240 when I first went on the paleo diet, and it was a very restrictive paleo diet, but it had cut,

00:10:05.520 you know, everything processed, all grains, nuts, including eggs and dairy, just anything that

00:10:11.920 I thought I could be allergic to. I actually was in remission on that diet until I had a reaction

00:10:19.080 and took a bunch of medication and had a pregnancy and whatever that combination of

00:10:23.760 reintroducing medications again and the pregnancy then the paleo diet stopped working for me

00:10:28.380 i think that's that's interesting because you know you do see these different conditions so

00:10:32.380 mikaela pre-pregnancy was different than mikaela post-pregnancy yeah technologies change and

00:10:37.520 therefore maybe your nutrition changes that's some of the things we can figure out which i think is

00:10:40.940 kind of neat and the nice thing to do with the ai it's adaptive and so as we get more and more

00:10:45.460 data we can get more and more precise with with what we do and so that's you know like if somebody

00:10:51.000 says hey you told me i could do this this and this and one of those things didn't work you plug that

00:10:55.320 back in the algorithm you find out what's actually unique about that person you get more data than

00:10:58.940 you refine it so as time goes by we get better and better which is nice yeah that's great that's

00:11:04.320 very helpful um when i was trying to figure out what i was like allergic to or sensitive to i had

00:11:09.460 everything typed into a spreadsheet and it was a lot there's a lot of information there and i wasn't

00:11:14.660 I wasn't a robot.

00:11:16.720 It's complicated.

00:11:17.240 It's a nice thing with carnivores.

00:11:18.980 It simplifies it because it can be very complicated when we're dealing with literally thousands of food choices.

00:11:24.120 Most people can't figure that out.

00:11:25.540 Never do.

00:11:26.720 And that's why I think carnivores is the ultimate elimination diet.

00:11:30.200 And like you said, like you and I both know, it's sustainable over the long term.

00:11:33.480 If you want to do it for years and years, go for it.

00:11:36.020 It's fine.

00:11:36.500 It works.

00:11:38.020 Cool.

00:11:38.420 Okay.

00:11:39.660 So for people who are considering getting started and have concerns like, well, first

00:11:46.140 of all, I guess if you have a doctor that's saying, don't do this because your cholesterol

00:11:49.180 is going to go up and all these problems, you can always switch your doctors and Rivero.

00:11:53.820 There's a platform with doctors who can probably communicate with you better.

00:11:57.140 But for people who are still in that position, what's your opinion on the carnivore diet

00:12:03.140 and raising cholesterol?

00:12:04.360 Well, I don't think ignoring cholesterol and saying it's always fine if it goes up, I think that's not correct either.

00:12:11.480 I think there's some nuance there.

00:12:12.780 And one of the things is, you know, we can say that, you know, elevated, particularly ApoB, which is sort of the item of concern, if it goes up significantly, then that is an independent risk factor for heart disease.

00:12:26.000 However, when we look at things that are in meat, you know, like meat is mostly monounsaturated fat, meat has all these other compounds, carnitine, carnosine, creatine, taurine, all which have been shown to decrease risk of cardiovascular disease.

00:12:38.980 In fact, there was just a study came out last week in the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology looking at saturated fat and said there's really no evidence.

00:12:45.940 They looked at all the evidence out there, RCTs, you know, prospective epidemiology cohort studies, on and on and on.

00:12:52.740 And they said there's really no real evidence that saturated fat leads to an increase in cardiovascular disease and, you know, MI, strokes, any of that stuff.

00:13:00.020 And so I think generally if you go on the diet and you tend to lose weight and you get healthier and all your markers come down,

00:13:09.280 and we see that often, you know, the blood glucose normalizes, the inflammatory markers.

00:13:14.260 know is, you know, we hear from sort of the plant-based camps, how inflammatory meat is,

00:13:18.220 but you and adults know it's anything but. It decreases inflammation significantly. We know

00:13:23.500 that inflammation does play a role in the development of heart disease. And so certainly,

00:13:29.680 you know, relative to what everyone else is eating, which is, you know, most of the people

00:13:33.740 are eating the standard American diet, which is mostly processed food, going to an all-meat diet,

00:13:37.760 in my view, and I think the evidence supports that, is going to largely decrease your risk for

00:13:44.160 cardiovascular disease um even even if it does increase your ldl cholesterol now uh you know

00:13:50.440 with those other factors in there you can and i and i tell people you know hey go get more

00:13:54.360 information find out what what type of ldl you're dealing with is it oxidized is it large which is

00:13:59.520 small particle um are there other things that are going on you know is there a net effect and then

00:14:05.080 i think the imaging is really good so if you're after if you're older than 40 years of age you

00:14:08.600 get some of those advanced imaging, you know, coronary calcium scans, the angiographies and

00:14:14.700 things like that. So you can just kind of monitor things as time goes by. So you shouldn't ignore it.

00:14:19.080 But at the same time, I mean, I mean, I would even tell you, I mean, Michaela, you can answer

00:14:23.460 this question. If somebody said, Michaela, you've increased your risk for heart disease by 20% by

00:14:28.880 going on this crazy new going guide, and you should stop and go back to the quality of life

00:14:33.420 you had before, what would you say? I mean, even knowing you're at increased risk, I'm guessing

00:14:38.060 saving my life right oh yeah no well i would say something else was going to kill me a lot faster

00:14:43.100 even if i'm at a theoretic increased risk plus i feel fine yeah but i'm super skeptical about

00:14:49.140 anything now it's like no you can judge how you're feeling yeah i mean i mean and the skepticism you

00:14:55.180 know we you know all of us have just come through the last couple years with this pandemic and we've

00:14:58.940 seen a lot of yeah uh you know uh hypocrisy hypocrisy a lot of you know change in our mind

00:15:04.840 know maybe we got it right maybe we didn't and you know we're seeing all the back going now

00:15:08.360 and it gives you a sort of a a sense of hey maybe these people don't know what the hell they're

00:15:12.800 doing and and they're you know some that they're kind of making it up and you know you look at that

00:15:17.780 and you and you can see where that's happened in many many other occasions i think the nice thing

00:15:22.160 is people are looking at nutrition now and saying wait a minute maybe they weren't right about that

00:15:26.700 either you know as we're seeing the uh uh the sort of the push to the plant-based diet and even the

00:15:31.600 insect-based diet, which, you know, I mean, I think insects are disgusting for a reason.

00:15:37.200 You know, we don't like to eat them, and it's just one of those things they want to push on us.

00:15:41.080 So, yes, I think we should be skeptical, you know, and look at, you know, take matters in

00:15:46.040 your own hands and objectively assess things, you know, look in the mirror. I mean, gosh, you know,

00:15:51.780 one of the things I tell people is, you know, I can't, you know, I don't know if the climate

00:15:54.820 has changed. I have no way of really determining that myself. I can't walk outside and say,

00:15:58.300 it looks like the climate's changing because it's raining or it's snowing or

00:16:01.460 it's got hot. I can't do that.

00:16:03.260 But what I can do is I can look in the mirror and I can say, Hey, look,

00:16:06.880 I feel better. I, you know, I, you know,

00:16:08.820 everything is better for me and no one can hide that from me. You know,

00:16:12.700 no amount of gas lining is going to make me not understand that I'm

00:16:18.280 healthier. Right. And I think that's, I think that's a valid way to do that.

00:16:22.320 Yeah.

00:16:23.500 For transition symptoms from people going from say the standard American diet

00:16:28.080 over to the carnivore diet what is it that you've seen happens to people well i mean certainly you

00:16:33.600 know if you're eating on you know sort of standard american diet lots of carbohydrates and you go to

00:16:37.600 a cardboard out which is very little to no carbohydrates you're going to see some relative

00:16:42.320 you know loss of fluid you know you're going to see you know our insulin levels tend to fall a

00:16:45.840 little bit and that causes the kidneys to no longer hang on sodium water so you end up you

00:16:52.000 know becoming relatively dehydrated uh you know particularly in the transition so some people

00:16:55.840 will recommend increasing food and electrolyte. Your bowel movement frequency is going to most

00:17:01.500 likely change. You're now eating food that is now very bioavailable and highly absorbed. So you're

00:17:06.940 just not making as much waste products. Some people will see a decreased frequency in bowel

00:17:10.960 movements. And some people say, oh my God, I'm constipated. That's usually not the case. It's

00:17:15.300 just that you don't have as much waste to get rid of. Those are typically the things. Some people

00:17:19.600 notice a change in their sleep patterns. I find that one of the things that

00:17:24.840 you know i've come to discover over years is you know particularly eating big large protein-based

00:17:29.900 meal at night it can interfere with sleep you know particularly because you just have to deal

00:17:33.660 with the nitrogen from the protein and you know the way we deal with that is excreting it through

00:17:39.420 you know substance called urea and we have to breathe it out we sweat it out we urinate and

00:17:45.440 so those things can interfere with sleep a little bit so you just have to be mindful of that um

00:17:50.560 but really those are the major things that we see some people energy i think one of the biggest

00:17:55.240 things that a lot of people tend to under eat because meat is so satiating and satisfying yeah

00:18:00.360 i did that yeah long-term satiety so you tend to under eat and so you have to realize um if you're

00:18:06.260 particularly losing a lot of weight and you're tired and fatigued you just have to sort of maybe

00:18:10.200 just uh force yourself to eat a little bit more that that's a that's a good piece of advice

00:18:17.380 um when i first started the diet yeah my hunger cues were completely disorganized and that was

00:18:26.960 from going from like a paleo and then a keto diet so i was eating very clean for a number of years

00:18:32.660 before i went to carnivore and when i switched over to carnivore um first by like day three i

00:18:38.440 was just absolutely repulsed by the idea of only eating meat even though i had been eating steak

00:18:43.260 and salad every meal right so day three i was like nauseated i didn't want to touch meat and i think

00:18:49.000 i had a rougher transition than some people i've talked to a lot of people and they're like oh yeah

00:18:52.780 wow week one and i feel a lot better but i think because i had an autoimmune disorder and like

00:18:57.980 there was a lot going on i didn't feel great i had like my digestion was in rough shape um like i

00:19:05.560 diarrhea at the beginning um I had muscle cramps around month five that just so after I got over

00:19:14.000 the transition period at around six weeks I felt quite a bit better um and at month five I had

00:19:21.020 started getting muscle cramps and this is before I knew that you could kind of play around with

00:19:25.120 sodium and potassium and magnesium levels uh and I just dealt with it I was like nah I'm not

00:19:30.560 introducing anything i'm just gonna wait and i had wicked muscle cramps for like a month and a

00:19:35.840 half maybe two months off and on at night which i think could have been fixed with the introduction

00:19:43.140 of electrolytes but i didn't know anything about that i was also drinking way too much water at

00:19:47.200 the beginning i was unbelievably thirsty so i was drinking like and i didn't maybe

00:19:52.220 maybe like four or five bottles of water my dad had a similar problem where he was just

00:19:59.280 excessively thirsty like I couldn't get enough water which I think was also screwing up my

00:20:04.240 electrolytes it was it was hard for me to adapt to it I wasn't I was under eating and then I was

00:20:10.040 overeating so I was eating three steaks a day which is too much for me and I was like because

00:20:15.420 I was having carb withdrawal so I was craving food but it wasn't hunger it was cravings and

00:20:20.340 I was trying to fill that it was tricky switching over and that was just from dropping salad which

00:20:25.740 seems ridiculous like that seems like the last step but it was tricky well yeah i mean you're

00:20:30.880 you're thought about you know drinking water you know water obviously you need water to hydrate

00:20:35.420 but you need to accompany that with the electrolytes because otherwise once you start to

00:20:39.980 dilute electrolytes in your body your body just gets rid of the extra water and so it's hard to

00:20:44.480 catch up with this you have to include a little bit of electrolyte in there but yeah that often

00:20:47.620 cramping is something that we do occasionally see from from people and you know often it's

00:20:52.540 You know, figuring out an electrolyte, fluid electrolyte balance is usually what cures that.

00:20:56.940 Sometimes people are under eating when they see that, over exercising, under eating, not taking in enough calories or fat.

00:21:03.140 And those things that I commonly see with cramping.

00:21:05.880 But it generally tends to transition away for most people.

00:21:09.980 I mean, it went away for me and I didn't even change anything.

00:21:13.420 So I just suffered.

00:21:15.200 It's like, wow, my leg's really going at it tonight.

00:21:17.560 Hope that stops at some point.

00:21:20.960 That's not fun.

00:21:21.760 that can be painful yeah quite painful yeah um okay what have you seen for uh you must deal with

00:21:29.820 people who have a whole host of disorders so what would you say the average person who comes to you

00:21:34.900 could you like define what they look like well i mean gosh at this point there's a there's a

00:21:41.240 wide variety i get you know professional athletes you know i do consultations still you know uh you

00:21:45.980 know you know money through friday for an hour a day so i get all kinds of i get a lot of x you

00:21:50.440 And believe it or not, a whole bunch of ex-vegans, I mean, you know, 10, 20, 30-year ex-vegans

00:21:54.900 that come in that have just eventually found it just didn't work for them.

00:22:00.480 You know, obviously a lot of people with weight loss issues are common.

00:22:04.240 You know, obesity is becoming so common.

00:22:06.180 So, you know, half the population has it.

00:22:08.420 So we see that pretty frequently.

00:22:10.080 I see a lot of people, again, with autoimmune conditions.

00:22:12.480 I see a lot of particular women with things like hypothyroidism.

00:22:16.440 We see definitely a not insignificant number of people that have primary gut issues like IBS

00:22:23.800 or the more severe things like Crohn's disease or also colitis.

00:22:28.760 Those things come in very frequently.

00:22:31.220 Rheumatoid arthritis.

00:22:32.000 Psoriasis is another real common one, which the carnivore not very effectively treats in many, many cases.

00:22:39.160 A lot of mental health issues.

00:22:40.580 We have a lot of people with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, even things like PTSD.

00:22:45.560 that are being you know are improved with the diet in some cases you know completely put in

00:22:51.720 remission so it's been you know it's been I think in general good nutrition pretty much fixes just

00:22:58.600 about everything at least when it comes to chronic diseases and so it just makes sense and it plays

00:23:03.540 such a significant role in creating the diseases and we've got as we see it doesn't take anyone

00:23:10.840 long to figure out if you go out in public you see so many people that are just they're all

00:23:15.520 sick. I mean, everybody around you is now sick and it's hard to find a healthy person these days

00:23:19.480 and it's because we're all eating the same kind of what you could. Once you, once you eliminate

00:23:23.760 that, a whole lot of things get better. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. Um, it's interesting too,

00:23:30.680 for things like PTSD, it's something that somebody with PTSD might not consider something

00:23:36.400 like nutrition playing a role, right? Especially if you're traumatized from experiences that are

00:23:41.440 traumatizing. But I know I had PTSD from a couple of hospital experiences and then some health

00:23:52.380 issues with my family. And it comes back a bit, especially with the experience getting my dad off

00:24:01.680 of psychiatric medications, which was just like literally almost killed him. It was horrifying.

00:24:06.660 and uh that was very traumatizing and i've managed to deal with that because um of the diet and if i

00:24:16.080 have a reaction to something i still do have reactions to something if i accidentally eat

00:24:19.660 something that isn't carnivore um my anxiety skyrockets and those memories come back and i

00:24:25.240 have a difficult time sleeping and everything but if i'm on the diet they're not there so i would

00:24:29.180 urge anybody who's suffering from ptsd that's like actually caused by traumatic experiences

00:24:34.100 to consider the role of nutrition because if you're in a calmer state those memories might

00:24:38.880 not be as haunting this episode is sponsored by nordvpn if you're listening to this you are

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00:25:40.940 the rest of this episode yeah i think that's good advice and i it's it's you know it's kind

00:25:46.200 of funny because there's no way diet could affect pts well it actually does i mean there's you know

00:25:51.160 there's brain physiology going on in her diet. It impacts everything. And I've seen a number of

00:25:55.860 people with PTSD. It doesn't change the fact that the trauma has occurred. You still have to deal

00:25:59.640 with that through other means, but at least putting yourself in a better physiologic state

00:26:04.080 so you aren't so reactive and, you know, you have a little bit more sense of calmness

00:26:08.560 does clearly help. And then for people switching onto it, do you recommend they go from the

00:26:18.860 standard american diet directly onto the carnivore diet or do you do a weaning process or is it

00:26:24.140 dependent on the person i mean yeah a little bit's going to depend on the person you know i think that

00:26:28.360 you know i can make an argument for why weaning might make sense because you know some people

00:26:32.060 particularly somebody's on a bunch of medications and sick and if you rapidly drop that they may

00:26:36.860 have some pretty severe uh transition symptoms enough to where they don't want to do it because

00:26:41.460 they feel so bad and so i think in those cases uh you know if somebody's already been on a low

00:26:45.880 carb or ketogenic style diet ahead of time then they generally can just drop right into it but

00:26:50.320 somebody that's like you said on this high carb you know junk food based standard american diet

00:26:56.240 then they may find just reducing some of the some of the carb sugar the grain you know the processed

00:27:02.140 foods first maybe maybe transitioning low carb increasing uh the the high quality nutrition

00:27:09.080 steak and eggs and things like that in the diet and then moving from there you know tight tapering

00:27:12.960 down the fiber, taking down the carbohydrates over, you know, four, six week period, uh, often

00:27:17.580 makes it a little bit easier for them to do. And, you know, there's other people on the other hand

00:27:22.140 that are, you know, have this severe problem with the way they relate to food. You know,

00:27:26.540 some people call them addicts to sugary food, processed food, junk food, whatever. And those

00:27:31.880 are the, you know, they, they can't be moderators. There's some people that can moderate food

00:27:35.620 and many people can't, you know, they, you can't give them a piece of chocolate and they'll eat

00:27:39.340 whole i can't bar and six you know six pints of ice cream afterwards so you gotta yeah

00:27:46.940 what were you like before the carnivore diet i couldn't regulate i couldn't regulate at all it

00:27:51.260 was crazy i didn't understand how people could go to a party and have like one piece of pizza

00:27:55.660 or something and that stuff was killing me like i had celiac disease and it was like it was it was

00:28:01.660 awful i think part of it was um a side effect from the ssris i think that increased my appetite

00:28:07.100 But even after that, it was like, I get cravings like crazy.

00:28:10.380 If I eat something accidentally, like if I'm at a restaurant and I get hit with something

00:28:14.840 now, all the cravings come back.

00:28:16.940 It's wild.

00:28:17.900 So I wasn't a regulator.

00:28:19.600 Yeah, I pretty much wasn't.

00:28:21.040 I mean, I was a big, big human being.

00:28:22.840 I was at some point 6'5", 230 pounds, 300 pounds.

00:28:26.880 I could eat a lot.

00:28:27.800 I would regulate 9,000 calories an egg.

00:28:29.980 So for me to eat a pint of ice cream, that was an appetizer.

00:28:33.380 I used to eat three or four of them.

00:28:34.660 And, you know, I did a whole pizza and I'd eat three or four, you know, entrees at dinner.

00:28:39.960 So I was always somebody that ate a lot.

00:28:42.920 And now, I mean, I can, I have much better appetite control.

00:28:47.040 I'm still, you know, a really large person, but I don't, you know, the satiety that I get from just basically eating meat.

00:28:56.660 And like you, I feel best on just meat, but I'm just pure red meat.

00:29:00.080 I feel my best.

00:29:00.540 Now, I do include some eggs and a little bit of dairy from here and there.

00:29:03.600 in my diet these days. But anytime I want to, you know, like I just want to tighten things up and

00:29:08.580 feel better, I'll just go straight to straight up red meat. And that to me is the home base.

00:29:13.360 It's the place where I feel the best. Cool. Cool. Okay. How, how do you feel about

00:29:22.180 incorporating organs or supplements on the diet? Well, I mean, you know, and this is something I

00:29:29.740 know there's a lot of people out there talking about the essentiality of organs and things like

00:29:33.020 that. I mean, I don't personally, I don't use organ meats. I don't take organ meats supplements.

00:29:37.040 I haven't for, you know, the whole time I've been, I mean, I've tried some organ meats. I just don't

00:29:41.480 prefer them. I don't think they taste very good in my view. Other people are, you know, other people

00:29:46.240 like them. The data that we have, you know, the Harvard University study that came out in 2021

00:29:50.740 showed that organs provided no additional benefit when it came to preventing nutrient deficiencies

00:29:55.980 or symptoms of those. The study I had, I collected data on 12,000 people doing the

00:30:01.680 there's no difference in outcomes across the board included supplements or organs versus those

00:30:08.040 that did not so I don't think the argument can be made that broadly everyone needs to be taking

00:30:12.920 these things now I will tell you that there are individuals to say hey I just feel a little better

00:30:16.320 when I include this or that organ mean typically I think you know if you're going to even just eat

00:30:20.440 the organ means don't waste your money on the supplements they're overpriced in my view

00:30:23.500 and so you're kind of getting ripped off a little bit I think that you know many people you know

00:30:31.120 it depends i guess you're coming from a background where you're extremely extremely nutrient poor

00:30:35.980 you know you've got all these sort of chronic deficiencies organ meats can be a way to save

00:30:40.960 sort of bring those things back up but then most people that do this diet long term i'm talking

00:30:45.980 you know many many years generally routinely don't include organ meats and this is what you know i

00:30:51.160 learned when i first started this from people that've been doing it for 10 or plus years 20

00:30:54.700 years on and like you know a lot of people come and go they start out they think they need to eat

00:30:58.940 all the organ meats they do that for a while and let me either quit the diet and go out and do

00:31:02.260 something else and go back to doing an omnivorous diet and there's some people that think that the

00:31:07.060 organ meats actually for some people depending on how much you're consuming can actually be a net

00:31:10.520 negative uh so i don't think they're necessary i don't tell people not to eat them when i say you

00:31:16.340 know if you like them try them you know include them you know when you want to but to sit there

00:31:20.940 and think you have to have them to be healthy or quote-unquote optimal i don't think the data

00:31:26.940 supports that i think it's confusing for people because you get on a diet where well if you're

00:31:33.180 told you need all these different foods to fulfill all your vitamin needs and then you switch over to

00:31:38.700 just eating steak it's like okay well that can't possibly fulfill everything maybe maybe liver

00:31:44.440 gives me a bit of variety and then maybe i get some vitamins that i'm missing well you know it's

00:31:49.000 interesting because you know like a lot of people like this modern carnivore movement can trace its

00:31:53.500 roots in a lot of cases to a guy named stefan uh or wilmar stefanson who was you know canadian

00:31:58.740 explorer who spent all this time up in you know up in the arctic with with the inuit and he basically

00:32:04.600 stated he's like the only thing you need is red meat and man enough fat he said the organ meats

00:32:08.840 were things that we generally gave to the dogs in many cases not that they weren't sometimes eating

00:32:13.640 but he said they weren't necessary and he'd lived up there for these guys for i think a collective

00:32:18.260 of 12 years and so this is you know from the beginning uh i don't think you need them i mean

00:32:24.340 i don't use them and i'm not dead i'm you know like i said just i'm i literally just top you know

00:32:30.340 was ranked number one in the world again on on rowing you know hey congratulations that's huge

00:32:37.140 so i mean i'm you know i'm doing well i'm doing fine i don't i don't even include those things

00:32:41.060 in the diet so i think it's something that you know they're they're like i said uh i mean i can

00:32:46.260 understand that the sort of the narrative you know talk about all these tribal people would

00:32:50.960 eat this but you know you look at who you're comparing it to most of these you know modern

00:32:54.760 day indigenous tribes are still around the ones we've had contact with in the last you know 100

00:32:59.000 years or so they're really poor and they're really living on the fringes and they're living in a

00:33:03.020 subsistence existence and so they got to eat everything they can come across whereas early

00:33:07.900 humans it can be argued we're living in a time of uh surplus and so there are lots of big animals

00:33:13.800 around there literally millions and millions of these giant you know mega herbivores you know

00:33:20.020 elephants and mastodons and giant these other giant animals and we were very good at killing

00:33:24.880 them so we probably had lots and lots of meat you think about if it if it how do we grow this big

00:33:30.060 big brain from this little tiny thing that these uh you know our previous our you know predecessors

00:33:35.460 the orthopistocines and early uh humans you know like homohabalus and stuff our brain just

00:33:40.940 continue to grow and grow that's because we had constant access to high quality nutrient dense

00:33:46.140 calorie dense foods and this would be you know large animals with lots of large and the fat

00:33:51.240 yeah yeah i love that um i didn't i don't eat liver and neither do my parents so my parents

00:33:59.920 have been on a diet now i started december 2017 um my mom started in january she hopped on board

00:34:06.260 right away she's really open okay I'll do it too and then my dad was a bit harder to convince

00:34:11.340 it's like what I also have to drop salad like what I'm only eating salad it's really the salad

00:34:18.700 I was like yeah sorry it's probably the salad um but I think we're also like hyper hyper sensitive

00:34:25.660 from being on medication for years like I I really do think the SSRIs sensitized my brain to carbs

00:34:32.760 when I went off of them. So I was on the paleo diet, everything got better. And I went off of

00:34:37.180 all my medication. And you shouldn't do that. You should definitely not do that for SSRIs or psych

00:34:44.980 meds. And I got light sensitivity and sound sensitivity and touch sensitivity and temperature

00:34:52.060 sensitivity, like my entire nervous system just was on fire. And then my reactions to foods were

00:35:00.840 just, it was horrible. It was like pain. Um, I hallucinated a number of times. It was, it was

00:35:07.800 on another level of bad. And I don't think they would have been that severe without being on

00:35:13.400 SSRIs, particularly through my developmental period, like 10 years. I don't know if you saw

00:35:19.080 the paper that came out showing that, uh, you know, the whole premise of SSRIs was based on

00:35:25.040 the thought that there was this imbalance of serotonin in the brain. It turns out that wasn't

00:35:28.900 even true. So, you know, how many people, maybe that mechanism was completely made up or not

00:35:36.200 based on your data. So it's kind of interesting to see that, but yeah, you're correct. A lot of

00:35:40.520 these different psychiatric medications, it's a problem if you just drop them completely,

00:35:46.060 you can run into big problems. Yeah. Yeah. Big problems. I didn't know that at all at the time.

00:35:52.860 anyway i know now so that was fun um okay so what's your plan with rivero in the future

00:36:01.340 do you have goals is it just to spread around awareness well i mean our goal is you know to

00:36:07.260 to grow into a sizable company you know a significant alternative to the standard

00:36:13.160 allopathic thing allopathic system and we have uh you know there's several other companies out

00:36:18.580 there they're doing sort of kind of similar things i think we're unique in the way we we we you know

00:36:24.220 deal with nutrition um our goal is to be a very large company a multi-billion dollar company

00:36:29.600 a company that takes care of you know hundreds of thousands if not millions of people you know

00:36:35.460 around the united states around the world you know and hopefully to turn this thing around and we

00:36:39.660 haven't we have this you know looming and so well i mean i would argue that we're already there but

00:36:44.800 we have this chronic disease healthcare crisis in this country. We're not getting better. We're

00:36:49.720 just continuing to get worse. Our life expectancy is going down and the prevalence of chronic disease

00:36:53.540 continues to go up. The obesity rates continue to go up. Something has to be done. And so we're

00:36:58.380 going to be a part of that solution. And I think, you know, I mean, so, I mean, obviously we're

00:37:03.300 going to be taking care of patients, but the other aspect of this is, you know, because the question

00:37:07.460 is, well, there's no money in getting people healthy. We often hear that, but I think there

00:37:10.440 is. And I think what we find is that when you partner with other companies, you know, let's say

00:37:17.800 you go to a large corporation, say like Ford Morgan company or something, and they're spending a

00:37:22.540 significant amount of their costs go to healthcare for their employees. And you can dramatically cut

00:37:27.800 that, you know, down, you know, as we see, we have people, you know, multi-thousand dollar a month

00:37:33.180 infusions for autoimmune disease, and you can get rid of those things and make these people not need

00:37:36.960 debt, that dramatically saves money for these companies. So these companies are incentivized

00:37:41.000 financially to do this, not only for their own bottom dollar or their bottom line, but also for

00:37:47.560 the health and the productivity of their employees. So the employees feel better, the companies save

00:37:51.380 more money. So there isn't, you know, you take it away from pharma, you know, they're not going to

00:37:55.080 be happy about this, but, you know, other companies are going to see the net benefit. So we move some

00:37:59.620 of that money from pharma profits into maybe other corporations' profits and their productivity

00:38:05.000 and things that arguably be better for society i think you know the less people that we have

00:38:10.120 that are medicated the better you know yeah that's for sure that's actually a very good point

00:38:18.440 that that there actually is a a need for this just in regards to money that is a good point because

00:38:24.200 people do talk about the pharmacy pharmaceutical companies and how much they make and they're not

00:38:27.880 incentivized but yeah companies are incentivized i like that that's good and employees are probably

00:38:34.280 going to be more productive if they're not stuck on a whole bunch of medication absolutely yeah

00:38:39.380 you're happy just happier people you know and this is the thing and i know you do a lot of the

00:38:44.580 controversial topics on your show where one person disagrees and we have a lot of you know and it's

00:38:50.180 cordial we have a lot of uh angry angry people out there they're really mad at each other they're

00:38:55.940 mad at life in general they're generally unhappy and i think nutrition plays actually a big role

00:39:01.220 you know when you're when you're feeling bad and hurt and in pain you're just in a bad mood all the

00:39:06.540 time we have so many people that are in bad moods and when you when you go car i don't know about

00:39:10.560 you but i'm generally just kind of happy and chilled out and that's my baseline state as

00:39:16.220 opposed to this you know this rapid cycling between rage and you know super moral and so

00:39:22.780 now when everybody's just happy and chilled out um i think society in general is better i mean i

00:39:28.120 we can get along better we can cooperate we can do things to to to you know the beautiful things

00:39:32.500 humans are capable of you know making all these great things rather than just constantly fighting

00:39:37.000 on each other which i think is you know it's it's depressing to see all you know yeah it's

00:39:42.120 heartbreaking it's also like you have you have no idea what type of person who's currently

00:39:47.140 suffering from a chronic illness what they'd be capable of if they were healthy right like if

00:39:53.180 they're not struggling to survive it's it's heartbreaking and especially when this diet can

00:39:58.040 help can help so quickly even if you go on a medication right with a chronic illness they go

00:40:04.860 okay well usually it's like six weeks right to see some sort of result and for people with

00:40:11.020 autoimmunity going on immune suppressants they're like well this isn't it's not a cure maybe you can

00:40:16.800 achieve a medically induced remission, but it's not like the damage stops. Right. Yeah. And the

00:40:23.520 other costs, I mean, aside, I mean, you're on a, you're on a immune modulating drug. I mean,

00:40:26.840 your immune system is being compromised. And so now you're more susceptible to cancer,

00:40:30.420 susceptible to infections and other, you know, maybe it's GI side of it. There's all kinds of

00:40:35.440 side effects that come with these things. And, you know, it's like I'm trading one side effect

00:40:39.140 back to the other and I'm putting myself at increased risk. Whereas diet generally doesn't

00:40:42.800 have those things and you know just just fixing your nutrition in general whether it's carnival

00:40:47.260 or something else has a big role and I think we should you know I don't know why we're not

00:40:51.960 screaming that from the rooftops you know for every chronic disease including you know like

00:40:57.620 this pandemic we just went through we probably would have suffered way less morbidity and

00:41:03.380 mortality had we sort of said hey look we need more people that just take this is a good time

00:41:08.940 to maybe get off all the processed food and why we didn't do that to me is still I mean it's really

00:41:15.440 kind of you know very disappointing yeah well it's hard to like I think you have to be pretty

00:41:23.500 driven to take it into your own hands and to start removing foods from your diet especially if you

00:41:30.100 have cravings towards them like um uh i've i don't think everybody can do it and i mean if people

00:41:39.940 around them were doing it and there was more kind of societal recognition and their doctor was saying

00:41:44.700 oh you should do it then maybe those people would be pushed but i think some people have a really

00:41:48.440 hard time removing like good yummy food well and you know it's kind of interesting i had someone

00:41:54.340 who you know met with me the other day asked if they could work for my company and i said what's

00:41:59.060 motivation there she said i've been a chemical engineer working for the food industry and my

00:42:04.440 job was to make food addictive to people and i no longer longer can good conscious do this job

00:42:10.940 anymore it's it's i've seen the damage i've done and so clearly i mean the food is literally

00:42:15.880 engineered to be and you know ultimately these people get very sick eating that now we have

00:42:21.080 people talking about you know i see this is kind of crazy now we have people actually advocating

00:42:26.320 that you know there's no such thing as bad food and you know you can't have a healthy relationship

00:42:30.640 with food by saying some foods are bad when clearly some foods are bad for us i mean these

00:42:36.000 ultra processed you know really just you know junk laden foods which provide really no benefit

00:42:43.280 outside of the hedonistic pleasure are clearly causing health problems and you see these people

00:42:49.440 with you know massive obesity morbid obesity out there saying there's nothing wrong with being

00:42:53.920 obese which is also a problem i mean when you have that attitude that's being pushed forward

00:42:58.320 on none of these poor vulnerable people that just say well i'm i'm going to be obese there's nothing

00:43:04.380 i can do about it and therefore i should revel just continue to get sicker and sicker and that's

00:43:08.700 a real it's a real problem yeah um how do you feel about people who say okay well okay let me

00:43:17.160 let me preface this um scarlet doesn't eat processed foods or sugar right and she's in

00:43:23.600 kindergarten now so she went to school and um she's at camp actually and they were making some

00:43:29.700 sort of like cookie mix at camp which i probably would have just pulled her out because if you

00:43:34.680 don't eat cookies it's kind of torture having a kid make cookies like but i didn't know that

00:43:39.200 was going on anyway she ate some of the cookie dough which is something she hasn't had before

00:43:43.740 And she came back and she was like hyper in a way that I was like, did you have sugar?

00:43:48.500 Like hyper running around.

00:43:50.240 And she's super calm and doesn't do anything.

00:43:52.380 And then at night she goes, she was crying.

00:43:54.740 So she had the like hyperactivity, sugar crash.

00:43:57.660 And then crying saying, I can't stop thinking about chocolate.

00:44:01.120 Like I can't stop thinking about chocolate.

00:44:03.120 And I was like, that's so sad.

00:44:04.880 I was like, just, you know, go to sleep.

00:44:06.120 It'll probably be gone in the morning.

00:44:08.060 But sometimes when you eat these foods, then they get stuck in your head.

00:44:11.360 well it's unfortunate you know we have a lot of kids you know and this is you know a lot of

00:44:16.900 teachers and i you know i remember when i was a kid you get a you get a retreat for being a good

00:44:21.920 kid instead so here's a piece of candy and we would all do that and you know it's it's there's

00:44:25.780 a lot of uh you know if you look at sugar as an as a drug and some people would you know don't

00:44:30.880 they don't like that analogy but i mean if it was a drug and we're saying it's it's cheap it's legal

00:44:35.160 it's everywhere we're encouraged to use it then it's pretty easy to to really get drawn into it

00:44:42.160 and to become quote-unquote addicted to it and like i said i know people don't some people don't

00:44:46.060 like that terminology but i do see people that really struggle with these foods and it is tough

00:44:52.620 you know because you know you as a as a parent you can't 24 hours a day seven days a week after

00:44:57.960 certain age you know they're they're going to be off to school and there's other people that are

00:45:00.820 going to have inputs and so it's challenging so i mean i don't know how old she is but i know

00:45:04.960 with my kids, as soon as they were old enough to kind of comprehend, as they started to read,

00:45:09.140 I would teach them, you know, food has a role on how you feel and how your health is. And these

00:45:15.260 are the things you should try to avoid and look at, look at, look at labels on packages and

00:45:18.800 read these things and see if that's something you should probably be eating or not. And just

00:45:23.360 kind of teach them that. And again, you know, ultimately they're going to make their own

00:45:27.160 decisions, but as a parent, you know, you set the example for them. They're going to, they're going

00:45:32.020 to do more what you do than do more what you say and so i think the biggest thing is yeah well it's

00:45:37.240 is setting the example in front of them and you know i you know it always makes me laugh when a

00:45:42.120 parent says well my kid's so fussy i have to give him goldfish and his other garbage i'm saying

00:45:46.380 there should be no situation where a three-year-old is creating household policy you're the

00:45:51.080 you're the adult you're the parent you know the kid will eat what you put in front of them at

00:45:54.960 some point you know it doesn't matter if they scream and yell you just have to put up with it

00:45:58.360 And like I said, if Scarlett's never been exposed to that garbage and you probably find a much easier kid to deal with, once you start putting that in there, it does change your behavior for sure.

00:46:09.340 And so you have to sort of step back.

00:46:12.080 I think, you know, the earlier you intervene, the better off it's going to be.

00:46:15.380 You know, it's tough when you have a kid that's 10 years old and has been eating junk food for nine years.

00:46:20.340 And then all of a sudden, guess what, junior?

00:46:22.260 No more, you know, gummy bears and potato chips.

00:46:26.020 It's going to be a fight.

00:46:27.000 so you know you can do it earlier that's a gonna be a major fight yeah i was thinking about it last

00:46:32.280 night like i put her to bed she's just like and i don't think it's her i i mean she's a wonderful

00:46:38.080 person but i think a lot of it is her diet i've babysat a lot of kids and there's i haven't been

00:46:44.520 around a kid that is this calm it was like it's just easy going to bed is easy eating is easy

00:46:49.940 everything is super easy and uh i think if you if you're worried too about having kids

00:46:55.780 if you feed them properly they don't have these ups and downs like you know that kid you see at

00:47:00.700 the airport and they're just like on the ground screaming bloody murder and you're like what's

00:47:05.260 wrong with that parent and it might be that they ate sugar all day and it's you know i think most

00:47:12.160 parents would recognize a bunch of sugar is bad for the kids and you know it's kind of funny a lot

00:47:16.180 of a lot of adults even as they discover it themselves like i can't eat this stuff more it's

00:47:20.520 bad for me well it's bad for your kids too and you know you have to make that connection and you know

00:47:25.220 I think getting the kids on board early, you're not going to do your kids any favor by making them, you know, addicted to processed foods.

00:47:32.440 And then they have some sort of, you know, disease, chronic disease, mental health disorder.

00:47:37.820 They're not going to love you more because you fed them lots of cake.

00:47:40.900 They're going to love you more.

00:47:41.700 Yeah.

00:47:41.960 And they develop as a young, as a healthy person that doesn't have chronic diseases and feels good about themselves.

00:47:47.960 And so I think you just have to realize that, you know, just because it's easy to, you know, here's some sugar and it placates them for a few minutes, you're ultimately in the long term, you know, probably doing harm, you know, but if nothing else, I mean, some piece of fruit or something like that.

00:48:01.700 You know, I'm not, I'm not, yeah, kids have to be on a carnival diet, but they need to be away.

00:48:06.520 There's so much garbage out there that's built as health food.

00:48:09.320 You know, here's an easy granola bar, which is basically processed garbage.

00:48:14.400 So if you can at least stick to natural foods and, you know,

00:48:17.200 make sure they get plenty of nutrient-dense animal foods, you know,

00:48:20.760 those types of things.

00:48:23.060 And if they want a piece of fruit in there, it's probably no big deal.

00:48:25.500 But once you start making 50% of their diet, goldfish and gummy worms

00:48:29.780 and Doritos and, you know, sugary drinks, you're asking for trouble for sure.

00:48:36.520 And with Scarlett, she's not on a carnivore diet.

00:48:38.740 She's on a paleo diet.

00:48:40.560 And I can tell when, like, by her behavior.

00:48:42.960 and she can tell so she's five now and she's actually old enough to kind of look back on her

00:48:47.800 behavior and be like okay that was a little bit weird but she's pretty good with uh fruit now she

00:48:53.800 doesn't eat a lot of fruit and most of the fruits are berries but she'll have pears and apples that

00:48:58.360 doesn't seem to do anything to her mood it's really like has a tiny bit of sugar just a tiny

00:49:04.540 bit of sugar and it's like spike crash right even though you could say well she ate enough berries

00:49:10.040 today that maybe the amount of sugar is equivalent it doesn't give her the same reaction for whatever

00:49:15.080 reason different one right that's the whole theoretical benefit one of the factors it

00:49:19.640 mitigates that literally response so ah so yeah like i said when you're eating concentrated

00:49:25.560 purely quickly absorbed sugar you're definitely going to get a rapid change in blood glucose and

00:49:30.680 whether or not that has an effect on mood i think most parents would know i mean you can tell like

00:49:35.480 i said even come back from grandma's house and they at least fortunately your your grandparents

00:49:39.240 probably are not, you know, your parents are probably not feeding her a bunch of sugar,

00:49:42.300 but a lot of, a lot of, a lot of parents throw them to grandma's house and they come back and

00:49:45.760 they're wild childs or they're crazy. You know, you got to detox them for a couple of days.

00:49:52.620 Yeah. Yeah. Um, have you, one of the things that I dealt with, and this actually took me

00:49:57.740 two years to figure out that I was dealing with it on the carnivore diet was what I believe was

00:50:02.200 histamine intolerance. So my, my gut was really, um, I probably damaged from celiac disease and,

00:50:09.240 whatever else all the medications I was on etc and I switched over to only eating steak and

00:50:15.080 almost everything went away and I couldn't get my digestion under control not really and it after

00:50:21.800 about two years on the diet and this is with my mood's good everything's good but my digestion

00:50:26.200 wasn't good I switched over to eating lamb and for whatever reason lamb sat better and I was like

00:50:34.280 what what is that about and then it eventually occurred to me that oh lamb is aged less and so

00:50:39.820 then I started eating just meat that was aged less so veal and veal sat better um and now I'm back to

00:50:45.540 eating beef because I love beef like beef's my veal's pretty good too but I I really like beef

00:50:50.720 um and I'm eating beef from a couple of companies that don't age their meat and I've never felt

00:50:56.760 better but when I was doing aged meat like I can I can't really eat out um because it it hurts my

00:51:03.720 stomach have you seen people deal with that oh yeah absolutely i mean there are some people that

00:51:08.540 have you know histamine reactions and you and your point out i think meat that's been aged

00:51:13.260 sauces and things like that sometimes ground beef can have a little bit higher histamine content and

00:51:18.500 so uh absolutely you know and it's it's one of those things that depending on who you go to for

00:51:24.440 your meat how they may hang it age it for several weeks typically but some of it's very short so you

00:51:30.420 like when i was i was just in uh uh bosnia over the summer for part of the summer and we had lamb

00:51:36.720 and literally it was like the lamb was literally slaughtered that morning the same day yeah and it

00:51:42.260 was just kind of an interesting way they do it in different places that you have access to such

00:51:46.020 fresh meat yeah common in the united states or not as common yeah in the u.s really uh in particular

00:51:55.220 I went to Croatia, and so one of the ways that really solidified this, like, oh, it's not beef that subsides my stomach, it's the aging process, was I went to Croatia, and I was buying beef, which was like $3 a pound in the local grocery store, and it was a different color kind of than America.

00:52:12.520 It was like dark red, and I was like, this looks like it's going to be very difficult to eat, and it was really good, but it turns out they just weren't aging it.

00:52:22.820 They were kind of just killing the cow and giving it to you.

00:52:25.460 And I could eat that just fine.

00:52:26.660 And I was like, oh, wow, it's the aging process.

00:52:29.800 Do you think that's an actual allergic reaction to histamine?

00:52:33.060 Do you know what's going on there?

00:52:34.060 Do you have any theories?

00:52:36.120 Well, you know, we get this histamine response.

00:52:41.720 And so, I mean, that's a histamine compound we have in our body.

00:52:46.220 That's why it's called antihistamines are developed.

00:52:49.200 So, and I can't say for sure, because I don't think we know what exact compound is leading to that.

00:52:56.480 You know, there's things called di-amine oxidase inhibitors, VAO that will advocate as a supplement to help with this stuff.

00:53:07.060 But I don't know that it's been well characterized.

00:53:09.740 I still haven't seen, I just see people that do better when they switch off aged meat.

00:53:14.300 And I was also in Croatia, so I was just going to say that.

00:53:17.160 I went to Dubrovnik and spent some time.

00:53:18.720 Yeah, that's where I was.

00:53:20.120 That's the same thing for sure.

00:53:23.480 My mom, so my mom was diagnosed with lupus while, my family's like crazy.

00:53:28.200 I don't know.

00:53:28.640 It's amazing that we're all still alive at this point, but that's credit towards diet.

00:53:32.260 But my mom was diagnosed with lupus and she still has dry eyes, so she uses drops, but

00:53:39.080 she doesn't have any arthritis or any other symptoms on the diet.

00:53:43.040 She's been using D, because she had major histamine issues, worse than me.

00:53:47.300 um she's had celiac disease for years as well and she started using dao and that helped her

00:53:53.900 digestion the other thing that she's been using um was low dose naltrexone which has also helped

00:54:01.800 her digestion um but she was quite like a couple years ago she had um she had kidney cancer and

00:54:09.780 like she's been she's been through the ringer um but she's on the diet and with the diet and

00:54:14.720 low-dose naltrexone and this DAO for histamine issues. She's doing really well, like better than

00:54:21.940 she has been. I tried taking low-dose naltrexone because I've constantly tried to reduce my

00:54:27.280 sensitivity so I can reintroduce foods, or at least so that if I go out to eat, I don't

00:54:31.800 accidentally get hit with something and I'm out for a week, which is really inconvenient.

00:54:37.000 And I couldn't tolerate low-dose naltrexone. It didn't make me feel good. Like none of these

00:54:41.060 things make me feel good, but they work for work for her.

00:54:45.680 Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, you know, we know that, you

00:54:47.680 know, naltrexone is typically used for opioid overdose. I mean,

00:54:52.100 that's what you give to somebody that's, and so it does have an

00:54:54.560 effect on a lot of these receptors, which initially, you

00:54:57.580 know, have an effect in the gut. So I'm not, like I said, it's

00:55:00.500 not something that I've had a lot of experience with naltrexone,

00:55:04.560 but I don't, I'm not surprised by that. It's good for her. It's

00:55:07.340 good to see your, your whole family has sort of come through

00:55:10.340 the worst of it is now it looks like they're doing everybody sounds like they're doing pretty well

00:55:13.480 right now oh yeah fantastic doing great uh dad's doing amazing like he's off of everything um he

00:55:21.600 has been for a while so he's touring around and has like endless energy uh like uh it's crazy

00:55:27.180 actually the amount of energy that man has um but he needs it it was really he needs the energy to

00:55:32.860 fight that he's fighting again so oh i know he does it's good it's good he has it but um he had

00:55:39.160 it was just getting him off of the um the psychiatric medications it was just awful

00:55:45.680 and i talked to so many people that are just like dying getting off of these things

00:55:50.320 it's brutal i'm glad he's coming through we're through it got through it and hopefully we'll

00:55:56.260 just continue to progress and continue to stay healthy yeah here here's a theory okay so like

00:56:03.100 i said i'm constantly trying to reduce sensitivities and trying to figure out exactly what's going on

00:56:06.880 here's a recent theory I've had that I'm giving a test and I'll keep you updated on how it goes

00:56:10.900 but I'm I moved to Tennessee um I moved to Tennessee and you can see by previous podcast

00:56:17.420 ads my face is puffy my tree allergies were crazy in Nashville and um really like crazy enough that

00:56:26.100 I was starting to feel like I was getting ill constantly so I had bronchitis um I was tired

00:56:32.820 all the time my face was puffy and I started getting joint pain and I was like what is going

00:56:38.840 on uh is this from the tree allergies like just systemic inflammation from tree allergies

00:56:44.580 um I had asthma like it it wasn't good um and Tennessee has really terrible tree allergies and

00:56:51.000 I moved and solved that but I'm wondering if um I'm so allergic to the environment because I've

00:56:57.000 got like food allergies and I'm allergic to everything that grows outside I'm wondering

00:57:01.780 if the reason I have such hypersensitivity to all plant foods is cross-reactivity from

00:57:09.240 different types of pollen. I mean, it's interesting. I mean, because now those

00:57:15.920 same plants have some similar compounds. There's some that are common to many plants. So it could

00:57:24.700 be that constant exposure to these things could have sensitized you to other things that are

00:57:30.760 also found in plants so that I suppose that's realistic now you moved out of Tennessee or you

00:57:36.740 are you still in Tennessee yeah well Scarlett was getting bronchitis all the time too and then I had

00:57:42.560 her allergies tested and she has like terrible allergies as well and I was like why would I be

00:57:47.620 living in Nashville if I work online if I don't have to so I'm in Miami now which is fantastic

00:57:55.320 I'm not allergic to palm trees so I was in Florida this weekend I was on the other side of the state

00:58:00.080 I was near, uh, uh, Tampa. So I think I have to come to Miami in November. So anyway, good for

00:58:07.040 you. It's a nice place. It's definitely, it's lovely. You were in Toronto before, right? So

00:58:11.960 you got a huge change in weather for sure. Yeah, but so much better. I felt like I was, um,

00:58:18.960 actually I haven't had my vitamin D tested in a long time. I'm going to do a whole panel after

00:58:23.360 like five years of carnivore just to see, just to see and to show people that I'm not dying. Um,

00:58:29.120 But living in Canada was rough.

00:58:31.680 I felt it in the wintertime.

00:58:33.080 So it's pretty nice to live somewhere where there's sun.

00:58:35.860 Has the rest of your family moved to or are they still up in Canada?

00:58:39.980 They're still up in Canada, but they're going to be spending the majority of their time in Florida now.

00:58:44.840 I've convinced them.

00:58:45.960 It's like it's nice and it's sunny.

00:58:47.440 Why wouldn't you be here?

00:58:48.560 Hey, my TEDx talk, I don't know if you know this.

00:58:51.120 I did a TEDx talk just about my experience and then they wouldn't publish it.

00:58:54.820 and i put it on youtube and it has like 3.5 million views or something did you know that

00:59:00.160 isn't that cool i remember you saying that they refused to show it i thought it was just you know

00:59:03.580 obviously it's nonsense and we have this sort of uh and i you know i keep getting censored and you

00:59:09.180 know shadow ban and this stuff just because they don't oh my gosh yeah actually about the shadow

00:59:15.320 banning okay so i wanted to invite you on um to talk to you because of the five year on the

00:59:20.540 carnivore diet thing and i was typing your name into instagram and because usually when people

00:59:27.100 are like oh i've been shadow banned i'm like yeah but have you been shadow banned or do people just

00:59:31.060 not like your posts anymore i'm not sure if it's real shadow banning and i couldn't type your name

00:59:35.320 in like long enough i had to type your entire name in to press on your username yeah it is it is it's

00:59:42.540 kind of ridiculous well they you know there's the stuff that they say is problematic it's just

00:59:48.160 ridiculous i mean i posted something about the world economic forum which was purely a satirical

00:59:53.720 post it was just like you know how in 2030 we're going to be eating all these you know bugs and

00:59:58.340 upcycled humans it was clearly satire and they said well that's misinformation i'm like it's

01:00:02.960 satire it's meant to be funny and they're saying it's misinformation therefore we're gonna you know

01:00:08.400 limit your reach apparently and so it's it's it's it's kind of crazy i mean wow i thought i was

01:00:13.820 hoping after the covid nonsense went away uh we would stop doing this but there it's just the

01:00:19.320 agenda the climate change uh the you know the the you know save the planet eat the bugs you know if

01:00:26.880 you go if you oppose that you know there's people that don't like it and they just want to continue

01:00:31.500 to limit who you can get this information to but the nice thing is it's getting out there anyway

01:00:35.400 it's grassroots people are finding out yeah they're never going to stop it because so many

01:00:41.060 people are out there you know you can't swat a million mosquitoes you know you knock down a few

01:00:45.600 two people but there's just too many people that know about this stuff now thankfully for all of

01:00:49.660 us that have got out there shared the message and i encourage everybody to let people know about this

01:00:54.160 because it is so important yeah but the shadow it's it's a you know it's it's sad to see the

01:01:00.200 the you know discussion being shut down you know there are a lot of people i disagree with but i

01:01:04.740 would never say they shouldn't be allowed to have a platform or a voice you know i don't i don't

01:01:09.080 care what you what you're talking about i mean i don't know i think freedom speech is one of the

01:01:13.720 tenets upon which free societies are uh you know are based upon and once we start losing that we

01:01:20.360 go into a very very scary place yeah yeah and social media can be very helpful for people even

01:01:28.840 just from a health perspective like the groups you can be a part of and the people you can meet

01:01:33.880 you can be support that you don't have in real life i mean i mean literally you know i mean i've

01:01:37.960 I've seen now tens of thousands of people that have literally dramatically improved their quality of life by just, you know, some of the information I've shared and so many other folks.

01:01:47.380 And so to shut that down is really a disservice to all those people and potentially to millions and millions of people.

01:01:52.920 Like, for instance, if I would have never been allowed to speak or somebody else and you never found out about it, you'd still be, you know, with horrible joint pain and all these other things going on and maybe at other.

01:02:02.980 No, no, I would have dropped it.

01:02:05.660 I would have dropped the salad.

01:02:06.560 I think I think like six weeks I was getting a lot of but I had already been there I was at like

01:02:11.540 chicken wings meat and lettuce and at some point I would have been like that's it I'm going to one

01:02:16.280 variable and just reintroducing back in but I was scared and I was getting a lot of pushback from

01:02:22.160 my in-laws about like child abuse it was very unpleasant it was like oh you're already not

01:02:28.580 eating enough like are you producing enough breast milk it was really aggressive and I think

01:02:35.640 that combined with the anxiety caused by the autoimmunity i was like i don't know got to keep

01:02:41.760 this lettuce well and this is saying it's you know because so many people don't know this you know

01:02:46.880 they all they're doing is you know sort of parroting what they think is correct and unfortunately

01:02:53.940 that's you know that's wrong and you end up kind of you know doing things that you you know later

01:03:02.480 regret. I mean, because obviously, you know, Scarlett is healthy and happy and doing well,

01:03:06.440 and she was clearly fed well, and she's clearly thriving, at least from what I can see when you

01:03:10.840 share stuff about her on your social media. But, you know, we've got a lot of people that are just

01:03:16.780 continuing to be misinformed. And unfortunately, sort of the mainstream media likes to continue to

01:03:24.900 push this information out there. You know, again, if you look at every single major media

01:03:30.220 corporation they have somebody from the farm on their on their board of directors so we've got

01:03:34.440 this constant wow to be medicated support the lifestyle that that you know is conducive to

01:03:42.860 being medicated so for this um environmental allergy crossover cross reactivity thing

01:03:49.420 theory that i have at the moment i'm going to try um sublingual immunotherapy so you can kind

01:03:56.080 to desensitize yourself to environmental allergens by exposing your immune system you know how that

01:04:01.500 works um because the even just the tree allergy component uh is so like it's so bad that i'll get

01:04:08.560 asthma if i go through a neighborhood with like oak trees which means traveling i'm like when's

01:04:14.580 the asthma attack gonna happen which can be very unpleasant i ended up actually in the emergency

01:04:18.940 room in austin so this is crazy and a lot of people i've seen go on the diet their environmental

01:04:23.620 allergies improve um but i was taking prescription strength antihistamines and immunosuppressants

01:04:30.100 for like 10 years so i was already near anaphylaxis near anaphylactic towards trees and so

01:04:38.020 i'm still allergic to them um but i'm going to try the immunotherapy and see if that reduces

01:04:41.940 my overall sensitivities which would be interesting anyway if there's a cross-reactivity thing going

01:04:47.220 on because but you are right i see a lot of people the opposite happens when there's people

01:04:50.900 on that seasonal and yeah they get better and they're able to like people are allergic to cat

01:04:55.300 dander and other things it's fine hey i don't i don't have those issues anymore so it is interesting

01:05:00.740 yeah that you're having still sort of that maybe well maybe you've always been allergic to this

01:05:05.620 it's not worse yeah oh it's definitely not worse like i remember when i was when i was 19 i was

01:05:11.700 having bad seasonal allergies and i was on immunosuppressants and antihistamines and i

01:05:16.100 went to the doctor and i had my allergies tested and she was like oh you're like you're really

01:05:20.420 allergic to trees um you should probably wear a mask and goggles for like the months the summer

01:05:27.220 months it was like the spring you're allergic to this and in the summer and in the fall there's

01:05:31.620 ragweed and there's mold so like i recommend a mask and goggles i was like 19 i was like i

01:05:37.220 if i need to wear a mask and goggles to go outside just kill me i'm like not meant to be around um

01:05:42.900 so i was already who like i was already super allergic so i'm not that surprised that i'm still

01:05:48.100 allergic but uh i don't have symptoms of autoimmunity or like depression or chronic

01:05:53.540 fatigue or any like rashes or anything so life is good well i mean you're just looking at your

01:05:58.420 face and you just look healthier i mean you just got this sort of you know where you just you can

01:06:02.660 just tell you look healthier than you did even five years ago so that's kudos to you yeah doing

01:06:08.340 that you know not yeah not being under chronic stress has helped too like taking care of my dad

01:06:14.740 was pretty stressful so i had a rough patch there even on the diet um stress can

01:06:21.780 like i said the fight is important but there's other factors that do still beat up on your

01:06:25.300 health and you mentioned chronic stress is a huge one and it's important and so there's

01:06:29.620 there's other things diet is huge it's important so you can't overlook that but you know there's

01:06:34.100 there's other things that still occur and life still happens and so but being more resilient

01:06:38.200 being able to you know bounce back and fight through those things a lot easier when you

01:06:43.820 when you're going to get nutrition on for sure yeah um how old are you if you don't mind me asking

01:06:50.180 i am uh 55 soon to turn 56 so i'm still you know still hanging in there i guess i i i i'm just you

01:07:00.060 know, from, for people to ask, you know, I've had my heart scan at zero, zero evidence of any

01:07:04.180 heart disease. You know, I'm still performing at a world-class level as an athlete, you know,

01:07:09.320 a lot of the things I'm doing. I met back into doing jujitsu as last night, I was wrestling

01:07:14.160 with a 270 pound division one college wrestler. That's so cool from that today, but you know,

01:07:21.740 that's, that's okay, but I can still do it. And I said, that's a nice thing. And I think the diet

01:07:25.600 has helped me enormously in the ability to continue to feel and perform good, even though

01:07:31.340 I'm, you know, kind of an older guy at this point. But I tend to think that, you know, a lot of the,

01:07:36.040 a lot of the, you know, sort of common beliefs around aging that we're just going to get fat

01:07:41.160 and have joint pain and, you know, all these types of things that we see, that's all mostly

01:07:45.280 unnecessary. I mean, I think there's, there's so many, I think so many people are prematurely aged

01:07:50.740 and obesity is one of the biggest signs of premature aging and that's what happens when

01:07:55.600 your system gets put under so much stress and uh so uh gosh i am i'm just very thankful i found

01:08:03.500 this you know i did i found it when i was almost you know my late 40s which you know if i if i

01:08:08.780 found it at your age and you know in your 20s or i think you're in your 20s when you found that

01:08:13.000 you know you just have so many better years of quality of life which is which is really

01:08:18.080 yeah well I honestly don't think I would be around if I hadn't found diet like I went to

01:08:25.100 the paleo diet in 2015 and I was on like seven medications and I was like keeping myself alive

01:08:30.420 with like Adderall you know like an immune suppressants and antihistamines and I and my

01:08:36.180 joints were disintegrating and I think if you're at the point where your joints are like oh is my

01:08:41.140 risk gonna go like next year like if you're at that point I don't know how much longer you have

01:08:46.600 like i don't think i would have lasted very long so i'm thankful yeah you know like i said i think

01:08:53.440 the you know because you mentioned you know the adderall and some of the other medications affect

01:08:57.200 your mental health and i i'm not sure if you're familiar with the work of a guy named dr chris

01:09:01.440 palmer who's at harvard and he's seen a lot of success with ketogenic diets carnivore diets and

01:09:06.720 getting people you know off depression bipolar disorder schizophrenia interesting guy so i'm

01:09:13.280 just give you an idea for something they want to reach out to okay he's a great guy he's at

01:09:18.460 harvard he's at harvard yeah he's a great guy to talk to him cool okay i will talk to him yeah

01:09:23.560 there should be dr chris palmer okay that's that's cool yeah no it's good to talk to people about

01:09:30.540 alternatives i mean i know they've been using ketogenic diets to treat epilepsy since forever

01:09:35.280 but then they came up with anti-epileptics and that's like oh it's a pill it's a lot easier than

01:09:40.660 restricting yourself it has all the side effects and turns you into a zombie and all those other

01:09:45.960 things that these yeah medicines do so it's it's it's exciting times i think there's a lot of

01:09:52.540 people that are waking up to uh the fact that nutrition has such a role that's why you know

01:09:57.140 the company the timing of the company as well and again a lot of people again there's a lot of people

01:10:01.660 questioning things you know like like i mentioned earlier you know with the uh the pandemic a lot

01:10:07.400 of people are just questioning whether we're being led the right way so i think i think

01:10:11.200 and that effect of that is good more people are sort of realizing that there's other things out

01:10:16.200 there that they should perhaps be pursuing yeah okay dr sean baker uh if people are trying to

01:10:25.260 find you online even though you're shadow banned where should they go well i mean so twitter you

01:10:29.920 you know i'm on twitter s baker md you can find me there i'm not shadow in there i'm on youtube

01:10:34.020 i got a youtube channel sean baker md um i i've got a tiktok channel so i'm almost embarrassed

01:10:39.580 to say but it's also sean baker md and then my my instagram which is my largest account is

01:10:44.980 is currently being shadow man so if you find me you have to type in my full name

01:10:48.900 sean baker one nine six seven you basically have to type the whole name thing and find me right now

01:10:54.360 yeah hopefully we need that shadow man lifted or i made a start i may have to start a new page

01:10:58.380 you know i don't know kind of a pain if i do but whatever i mean it's got to just have to kind of

01:11:02.880 keep fighting the fight fighting a good fight to get the information out there because i know

01:11:06.140 we're we're helping people and kudos for you and michaela for being willing to continue to talk

01:11:10.700 about this i know you don't have to at this point but um you know i mean you're it's literally

01:11:15.180 saving lives and helping people so thanks for having thanks for having me on the opportunity

01:11:19.720 and continue doing what you're doing to give my best to your family and

01:11:23.400 thank you well thanks for doing what you're doing too uh the reason i the reason i started the

01:11:30.300 podcast and i've said this before but i was like this diet i'm like i'm very thankful for this

01:11:35.120 diet this diet saved me and i was living in hell for a very long time um and so i was like how do

01:11:42.140 you how do you get more people to learn about a diet i was like okay maybe i'll start a podcast

01:11:47.000 but i won't i won't focus on the diet i'll just like talk about the diet every like six or seven

01:11:51.540 months so that it can grow but i'm not going to like alienate people from being in this weird

01:11:55.880 little like niche carnivore so that's the long-term goal just spread this around save people it's

01:12:02.180 great to see you be successful and i you know wish you continued growth and on and on and like i said

01:12:07.860 i think at the end of the day good will try and pull for over even so thank you thank you well

01:12:14.620 thank you for what you do too thank you very much for coming on

The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - November 01, 2022

Doctor Does the Carnivore Diet for 6 Years ｜ Dr. Shawn Baker 167

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