The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - How to Avoid Going With the Latest Fad ｜ Carl Benjamin

00:00:00.000 I think morality is sentimental. You know, it's about how we feel about what's happened rather

00:00:04.240 than some sort of calculus based on logical principles. You think it's based on how we

00:00:08.820 feel? Like, what exactly do you mean by that? Sure, like, for example,

00:00:15.620 a libertarian will say the state infringing on my right to bear arms is immoral and therefore

00:00:21.920 I am rationally justified in this, but the... Damn straight. Yeah, no, no, and I agree with 0.97

00:00:27.280 because I'm an Englishman, but the underlying thing under that is a kind of moral prejudice.

00:00:32.100 Do you identify as a conservative? I guess I would call myself a

00:00:34.900 traditionalist rather than a conservative. I feel like I've gone with libertarian since

00:00:38.600 I was like 14. Well, I mean, libertarian's an ideological viewpoint.

00:00:41.920 You're telling me I'm stuck in an ideology if I identify as a libertarian?

00:00:46.060 It's an ideological position. The problem I have with the ideology, really, is that it gives

00:00:50.140 people a false sense of moral superiority. It's not just in the intent, it's actually in the

00:00:55.140 you do and the consequences you bring about as well i'm not going to be able to say i'm a libertarian

00:00:59.700 after this podcast so you've taken that there's a definite external place that people regard more

00:01:06.580 highly than the people themselves we use the terms objective all the time and universal but like what

00:01:12.260 does that even mean like what does objective mean it means from the perspective of the universe

00:01:16.340 that's such a weird thing to aspire to do you think this has anything to do with the lack of religion

00:01:21.140 right now, it would be the view of kind of the good of humanity, you know?

00:01:33.220 Carl Benjamin, welcome to my podcast.

00:01:35.140 Thanks so much for having me.

00:01:38.180 Yeah, it's nice to finally meet you. I feel like I've heard of you. I've been following

00:01:41.460 you on Twitter forever. My friends have had you on their podcasts and we haven't spoken before,

00:01:46.660 So this should be fun

00:01:47.920 Yeah, I saw your Oxford Union address

00:01:51.120 Actually

00:01:51.680 The meat one? Thank you

00:01:54.600 Yeah, I'm constantly

00:01:56.860 In a battle against the vegans

00:01:58.160 Meat's good, we should eat it

00:02:00.800 I think I technically

00:02:02.760 Lost that

00:02:03.700 They do a vote at the end and I think I lost

00:02:06.640 But there's a bit of confusion about people

00:02:08.480 Which door you exit to vote

00:02:10.560 So I think I did

00:02:12.820 Lose that though

00:02:14.280 I don't really care what the popular consensus on the subject is.

00:02:17.420 Really?

00:02:17.780 I'll decide for myself whether I think it's correct or not.

00:02:20.060 Oh, you don't come off as that type of person at all.

00:02:22.800 Oh, really?

00:02:23.900 No, no, I'm being sarcastic.

00:02:25.500 You definitely, definitely do.

00:02:28.800 Good.

00:02:30.340 So how did, were you always like a more,

00:02:34.000 okay, do you identify as a conservative?

00:02:36.800 Yeah, I think conservative is,

00:02:39.700 excuse me, a fairly,

00:02:41.740 I mean, it's quite a broad label. It's not very deep, but it's good enough. I guess I would call

00:02:48.520 myself a traditionalist rather than a conservative, but they overlap quite significantly, so that's

00:02:55.020 fine. Okay. What's a traditionalist versus a conservative? Well, a conservative is someone

00:03:01.720 who is always chasing the last paradigm, whereas a traditionalist is someone who is constantly

00:03:09.580 moving forward in their own paradigm uh in the paradigm that we've inherited from the past

00:03:14.700 living in the present and then inevitably move forward in into the future and i guess you could

00:03:20.140 juxtapose this against um any kind of ideologist who has an abstract a priori view of what the

00:03:27.740 world should look like and they're constantly trying to impose that onto reality and reform

00:03:32.780 that reality to make that fit this predefined vision okay that seems to make sense i feel like

00:03:40.780 i've gone with libertarian since i was like 14 even though i probably only have a vague understanding

00:03:45.900 of what a libertarian is but i didn't identify as a conservative it's like i don't think i'm that

00:03:50.860 i don't really like anybody whatever whatever viewpoint not agreeing with anyone you know

00:03:57.740 unless i think it's right is although i suppose everybody thinks that way well i mean libertarians

00:04:03.240 an ideological viewpoint so you've got um you're telling me you're telling me i'm stuck in an

00:04:08.880 ideology if i identify as a libertarian hey guys i hope you're enjoying this episode i certainly did

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00:05:17.580 It's an ideological position, isn't it?

00:05:20.180 I mean, a lot of people do have ideologies, and it's not necessarily that ideologies are always bad.

00:05:27.380 I guess the question is really whether you let reality get overridden by the ideology or you override reality with the ideology.

00:05:36.080 And the problem I have with the ideology, really, is that it gives people a false sense of moral superiority.

00:05:44.120 and they say well i adhere to a particular ideology and therefore i am a good person

00:05:49.520 regardless really of what i've done or what i will do because i hold a certain set of beliefs

00:05:54.500 and i just don't really believe that morality works that way i don't really believe that being

00:05:58.100 a good person works that way i actually think it's not just in the intent that morality is

00:06:04.160 located it's actually in the thing you do and the consequences you bring about as well

00:06:08.020 are all part of the moral scheme and so you can believe a good thing do a good thing and end up

00:06:15.060 with a negative consequence and you might not be a bad person in the immediate sense but if you keep

00:06:19.880 doing that thing and you know you're going to get the negative consequence then it becomes a kind of

00:06:24.720 form of vanity where you're like well i'm just doing it for me now even though i'm bringing about

00:06:31.040 all these negative consequences and then conversely if you had a person who was like 0.72

00:06:34.400 an incompetent super villain and they're like right i'm gonna kill everyone in this city and

00:06:38.780 actually they tried to poison the well and it gave everyone really clean teeth or something you know 0.95

00:06:43.200 like you wouldn't say oh that's a good person because they helped everyone no they were trying

00:06:46.840 to hurt them you know so i i think the morality is in all of these spaces it's not just in one

00:06:53.340 place so this really is the problem i have with ideology and also it doesn't really track to

00:06:57.940 reality because i mean there's there's a genuine question at the moment of whether we want free

00:07:02.900 markets or whether we want property ownership like free markets are an ideological abstraction

00:07:08.520 but property ownership is something real and concrete but at the moment free markets are

00:07:12.940 actually inhibiting property ownership because of the free movement of peoples and so in britain

00:07:18.540 for example we get a million new people in a year you can imagine what that's done to the house

00:07:23.080 prices in this country and so actually getting on the property ladder is becoming just utterly

00:07:29.100 impossible for regular young people and so free markets are actually damaging people's ability

00:07:34.620 to own property and yet this is the ideological abstraction we find ourselves committed to

00:07:38.340 and i actually want to question those things and not being ideological means that i can and i also

00:07:46.320 still have a kind of framework of where i want to be from where i already am considering where

00:07:51.400 we've just been you know yeah okay that makes sense i think i had an issue until recently and

00:07:57.760 I don't know if I've gotten more disagreeable as I got older or just less naive from being

00:08:01.900 screwed over by people and just learning what they're like. But I'd always track back and go,

00:08:07.280 oh, this person did this bad thing. But look at how they were thinking that brought them up to

00:08:12.300 that moment. That doesn't make them a bad person. They just made a mistake. But then you get these

00:08:17.280 people and they'll just make mistakes and hurt more and more and more people. And I suppose then

00:08:22.980 you end up in worst case scenario. That's a Hitler position as he thought he was doing stuff. He 0.63

00:08:27.520 thought he was doing something good and he most certainly wasn't so like you were talking about

00:08:32.240 intent behind actions not you know being a marker for morality which i think is completely accurate

00:08:40.160 doesn't really matter how you got where you are but if you're doing something bad then that should

00:08:45.140 speak for itself that makes sense yeah i think so and like when when you when you take this kind of

00:08:52.360 three-dimensional view of what morality is you realize just how shallow the modern discourse is

00:08:59.320 right like you look you i'm about we're libertarians we're socialists and they're

00:09:04.760 constantly arguing from these very abstract positions where they ascribe to themselves

00:09:09.140 all perfect goodness and light and so obviously anyone who disagrees in that must be a bad person 0.94

00:09:14.780 or really stupid and actually it could just be that maybe they don't describe all of what morality 0.77

00:09:20.060 is and things are really complex and really we need to get out of the abstract spaces and get 0.99

00:09:25.020 into the real world and actually look at what's going on and i don't think morality is rational

00:09:29.780 that's the thing because the the problem of the ideology is entirely rational i think morality

00:09:34.580 is sentimental you know it's about how we feel about what's happened really rather than some sort

00:09:40.540 of calculus based on logical principles i don't i don't really think morality works that way

00:09:45.480 you think it's based on how we feel yeah okay can you sentiment

00:09:51.520 so okay can you do yeah describe that a little bit so if you care about something happen like

00:09:57.520 what exactly do you mean by that for example um a libertarian will say okay the state infringing

00:10:03.960 on my right to bear arms is immoral and therefore um i am rationally justified in this or i have a

00:10:12.280 particular rational justification for how i believe but the the underlying yeah no no i and

00:10:18.940 i agree with that because i'm an englishman but the underlying thing under that really is a kind

00:10:24.080 of just moral prejudice so i feel that that's correct and the people who want to take away

00:10:29.660 weapons are those people who feel that really and they'll come up with rational justification but

00:10:35.880 underneath that is really just a kind of personal prejudice

00:10:39.120 against you being able to defend yourself

00:10:42.660 because they believe something crazy.

00:10:46.240 As you can see, I'm a lot more sympathetic

00:10:48.160 to the libertarian side of any argument

00:10:50.040 than I am the socialist side.

00:10:52.520 But really, it's how to describe it,

00:10:56.520 like kind of strings, I guess,

00:10:58.280 that connect each other together.

00:11:00.720 And morality is kind of found in that connection

00:11:04.800 between two people.

00:11:05.880 and that's a sentimental bond so like when you get people who are like say oh i'm abstractly sort

00:11:12.560 of i the jesse lee peatson has this question he's like do you love black people so what does that

00:11:18.360 mean like what does that mean black people as a class you know some sort of abstract gestalt

00:11:23.640 entity you know like what does that mean i don't love white people i don't love black people i do

00:11:28.900 love this person and i do love that person i love this place that i've been to you know like it's

00:11:34.640 it's not it's not a rational construct it's a heartfelt emotion that you feel in your chest

00:11:40.960 that i think is the real root of morality and that's what we struggle with every day and i

00:11:46.560 think that the modern way of describing the world has become entirely rationalistic because i i what

00:11:51.840 i love doing is reading books from like 100 years ago because they just talk in a different way to

00:11:56.940 the way we talk now and they talk about things in a much more rich and in many ways sort of

00:12:02.000 judgmental way but you can tell they really love the things that they're talking about whereas we

00:12:07.360 seem a lot more shallow and a lot more disconnected from things and i don't i'm not even sure i've got

00:12:13.860 the proper language to describe what i'm trying to put across here you know but there's there's

00:12:18.500 definitely something hollow about the lives we're leading now compared to the way people experience

00:12:24.360 the world in the pre-20th century era i wonder if it's too much yes i agree and you can definitely

00:12:31.740 picked that up in older books uh do you think that's just from like how much of that is from

00:12:37.340 overstimulation from just being exposed to so many things at the same time doesn't that make

00:12:43.000 you care less almost maybe um there's just so much going on i think there was always quite a lot going

00:12:52.100 on in the past though and often it was way worse than what's going on now um i mean you know a

00:12:59.820 hundred years ago we were losing 50 000 men a day in trenches you know and the entire nations

00:13:07.360 were heaving at war with one another across the world for five years at a time so i don't know

00:13:13.200 if it's that things are there's less or more going on necessarily we're definitely more

00:13:19.620 immediately stimulated but i kind of feel this is a consequence of what's happened rather than

00:13:28.420 the source of the problem i there seems to me something wrong with the way we use science

00:13:35.560 and i'm i'm not the only person to have thought this like c.s lewis and julius avola both came

00:13:41.180 to the same conclusion whereas like science is the the locus of science is outside of humanity

00:13:47.320 and so science is being done for its own sake rather than for the sake of mankind and actually

00:13:52.900 i think that we should put ourselves as the primary good here when we're doing science

00:13:56.760 and when science is outside of us as the primary good it's i mean for example social media what was

00:14:03.960 the who was the co-founder of social media facebook who was like look we knew this was

00:14:08.560 addictive and we did it anyway well you're not doing that for the good of the people using it

00:14:12.140 because i mean social media sounds like a great idea hey you can easily contact your friends okay

00:14:16.020 yeah we need to do it for our own good not for the good of the platform getting clicks to make

00:14:20.080 money for advertisers and things like that that's a that's an external goal to the goal of actually

00:14:24.840 making something good for us to use in the world and so and a lot of science is like this and so

00:14:30.660 i'm just and i'm not trying to just throw science entirely under the bus or something but like

00:14:36.340 there's there's a definite external place that people regard more highly than the people

00:14:44.720 themselves and i'm really concerned about that like we use the terms objective all the time

00:14:49.940 and universal but like what does that even mean like what does objective mean it means from the

00:14:55.620 perspective of the universe like a perspective of non-mankind like the universe as a giant

00:15:02.400 entire conceptual entity looks at something and is supposed to make a judgment it's like

00:15:07.720 that's such a weird thing to aspire to like can't we just use human judgments we are humans you know

00:15:13.940 it should be okay for us to make our human judgments from the perspective of our own two

00:15:17.980 eyes looking at something as human beings so i know i'm going on but like this has really got

00:15:22.060 me on a tangent um but i i just there's something wrong with the way we're conceiving of the world

00:15:27.420 and we're trying to put it right there's something wrong with it do you think that this could just 0.97

00:15:33.420 be kind this could be okay so how do i describe this without sounding like a moron do you think 0.95

00:15:40.660 this has anything to do with a lack of religion right now or a lack of kind of judeo-christian 0.67

00:15:46.000 beliefs as a foundation of society because that would put you outside of not not science like

00:15:54.720 that's a not exactly what i mean but it would be the view of kind of the good of humanity

00:15:59.760 you know as opposed to looking things looking at things through the subjective scientific lens

00:16:06.400 so i've wondered this because

00:16:08.160 i wonder so if you go back 200 years that in in philosophical circles they're questioning or no

00:16:18.820 300 years they're questioning whether the idea of a mechanical universe a self-sustaining universe

00:16:25.380 that doesn't require god to be a part of the universe and a sort of prime mover in the universe

00:16:30.880 will eventually destroy faith in god and um this was proposed by john locke and it was refuted by

00:16:37.400 a chap called Berkeley. He said, no, look, you're going to create a world full of atheists if they

00:16:42.240 don't believe God is the underpinning force of the universe. And John Locke, who himself was

00:16:46.640 obviously a deeply religious man and wanted atheism outlawed, essentially just denied this.

00:16:51.940 He said, no, no, that's not going to happen. Well, actually he was wrong. That has happened.

00:16:56.180 Like you look around, especially in my country, almost everyone is either some

00:17:00.640 agnostic atheist or nominally Christian, but never goes to church. The church attendance here is

00:17:07.320 like six percent uh it's really low so in our sort of revealed religion we're atheists uh and so

00:17:15.280 i don't know whether you know it's a consequence of that but i wouldn't be surprised if that turned

00:17:23.460 out to be the case it would not surprise me and the thing is i've struggled with this i've got

00:17:27.780 i've got christian friends i'm like look you could just become a christian i'm like no

00:17:30.560 i could also kind of hard yeah right you can't just like suddenly become one exactly i was raised

00:17:37.840 in what is essentially a sort of irreligious society and so i was i've been trying to explain

00:17:44.040 i actually feel like maybe maybe it's a kind of disability or something i just don't have

00:17:50.300 the thing required to do the thing that you're asking me to do but um yeah i don't know i don't

00:17:56.660 i had a pretty big shift um so two years ago i grew up in a totally like either atheist or

00:18:05.780 agnostic society too in toronto i didn't know anyone i knew one person whose family went to

00:18:10.700 church and then he was always complaining oh i have to go to church and then he stopped going

00:18:13.880 to church and that was the only and i was like all the weirdos that go to church that was like

00:18:18.240 and and then i had my dad and he told me oh there's like importance in these stories

00:18:23.040 but i mean it's hard to understand that when you're like 10 um and then and then a couple

00:18:29.000 years i had some weird i just had too many weird miraculous experiences where i finally like

00:18:35.160 clicked in and so now i believe in god which is something that i had always been like maybe i

00:18:41.460 don't know what's out there like maybe it's a thing but i never got it and my mom converted

00:18:45.660 to catholicism and i was like that seems to be working for you but i don't get it

00:18:49.060 i don't feel it and i feel like from meeting christians specific christians the way they

00:18:57.600 look at the world is definitely significantly different than how i grew up like i grew up

00:19:03.180 looking at it through a scientific objective lens and it was pretty depressing i would say

00:19:09.620 this is kind of harsh but it's not something you can just click on oh believe this yeah like how

00:19:15.420 how are you supposed to believe that i'm totally with you like for me i was never i never felt like

00:19:23.260 i lacked religion there was nothing there was no like hole there for me i was just being a happy

00:19:30.240 normal person my whole life you know i've always been pretty optimistic um but i've never not

00:19:36.560 believed in a sort of mechanical universe because it seems to be true to me i but there are there

00:19:44.640 definitely unanswered questions and but the the point i think you're making is totally true

00:19:48.240 whatever it is i'm supposed to feel i just don't and i don't want to be an authentic about that

00:19:53.120 but conversely i am very sympathetic to the christians um i mean there are you know a every

00:20:00.080 christian i've ever met has been a lovely person right really good really decent that's always

00:20:04.800 weird yeah yeah and so i look back at the new atheists i think why are you attacking these

00:20:11.040 people you know aren't the worst people on earth to attack than these people um and then you know

00:20:18.080 christianity is the tradition of the west right it's it's definitely the moral bedrock upon which

00:20:24.240 our societies are based and again this is another place where the new atheists were just wrong

00:20:28.320 really you know the enlightenment the second irrational world wasn't something independent

00:20:33.680 of christianity it was made by christians um and so there's i don't see why we would deny that as

00:20:40.500 is so self-evidently true if we just know anything about the history of the evolution

00:20:44.540 of our philosophies.

00:20:46.420 So that's another thing, okay, well, you know, why can't we give Christianity its just due

00:20:52.540 here in improving the world?

00:20:55.640 And there's nothing repugnant about Christian doctrine to me either, right?

00:21:00.620 You know, I'm not, I don't want to be like, well, Jesus was a great moral teacher.

00:21:04.100 I mean, obviously, you know, that's not really as an asinine thing to say.

00:21:08.740 but there's nothing repugnant about the religion so i don't feel the need to attack you i can think

00:21:13.880 of far more repugnant religions to attack uh if i felt inclined so it's i don't understand why we

00:21:21.700 are more sympathetic to the christians but the christians are the ones who just get ignored 0.91

00:21:25.720 if not persecuted i mean in my country they're actively being persecuted by the state for example

00:21:31.740 if you're a christian woman and you go and pray silently in your own head outside an abortion

00:21:35.900 clinic you get arrested for having a thought crime so it's and if you if you're if you're

00:21:41.760 a christian street preacher you get arrested for spreading hate speech so oh yeah that doesn't

00:21:48.180 happen to the islamic preachers so it's it's just that's interesting yeah that's weird so if you

00:21:57.440 have two people that are i remember there was this guy in downtown toronto that he used to walk

00:22:02.380 downtown and every time you passed him he he'd he'd yell jesus and so you'd pass him he's like

00:22:08.840 oh like this guy yelling jesus at you so those those people uh if they're of like is islam faith

00:22:17.340 in the uk that's okay but it's not okay if they're christians i haven't heard this 0.80

00:22:21.640 i've never seen an example of an islamic preacher on the streets being okay uh you know having any

00:22:30.280 kind of negative contact with the police but i've seen it multiple times where a christian preacher

00:22:34.400 and often they'll be from africa uh so it's not even yeah you know they're not even native people

00:22:40.100 but they'll still be arrested because it's christian doctrine that they're promoting

00:22:45.740 it's just very strange like why would why would the british state operate in such a way

00:22:50.780 yeah that's weird so how has in the last five years how have you seen like where where in the

00:22:59.160 uk are you approximately i'm in the southwest okay and have you seen that area change in the last

00:23:04.760 five years yeah it's um it's been tragic so in in britain we're a very small country um with a very

00:23:15.680 high population very high population density particularly in england and we for some reason

00:23:23.300 for the last 13 years have had a conservative government that's just allowed increasing numbers

00:23:28.400 of people from anywhere in the world to come and live here and that has noticeably damaged 0.75

00:23:34.620 not only the fabric of society but the institutions of society and it's driving the country off 1.00

00:23:43.180 of a cliff because a lot of our infrastructure was built 50 years ago for a population of about

00:23:50.120 45 to 50 million and we now have official figures put at 69 million but the thing is there are going

00:23:57.360 to be millions of illegals also here so it's probably somewhere north of 70 up to about 75

00:24:04.720 um in 2011 one of the supermarkets came out and said we're selling enough food for 80 million

00:24:10.980 people and uh and everyone says that can't be right um but it might not be so terribly wrong

00:24:16.640 uh because i mean you know they are feeding people they should know but the the thing that

00:24:22.000 that's done is made everything worse it's just it's just the sheer number of people so the roads

00:24:27.000 are always packed the roads are in terrible condition everything costs way more than it

00:24:32.100 ought health care is a black hole so every year i mean it's just mathematically inevitable if every

00:24:39.660 year you bring in a million people and say one percent of those didn't need to use the health

00:24:44.820 care system which is going to be way more than that but let's get charitably one percent well

00:24:48.600 that's one percent that's not being paid for so that's an extra however many percentage out of

00:24:52.900 the budget for the national health service that has to come on the shoulders of the people already

00:24:57.700 here and then you think okay well they'll get jobs well let's assume they all got jobs next year

00:25:01.700 you've got another million people a percentage of those and so it's inevitable that the costs

00:25:06.660 will continue to spiral and this is just destroying the nhs that is terrible for the doctors and the

00:25:11.960 nurses because they're run ragged the nhs has got like a horrific staff turnover rate where

00:25:18.400 Obviously, people don't want to work there as a doctor or a nurse.

00:25:21.740 They move abroad.

00:25:22.500 They go somewhere else where they'll actually be paid half decently

00:25:25.120 and they won't be run ragged all the time.

00:25:27.220 But then you've got so many other things, just like jobs.

00:25:30.820 It's about rent or housing or social services.

00:25:34.940 It's about literally...

00:25:36.820 And then you look at the actual state of the cities.

00:25:41.060 Because no one's taking care of where they live,

00:25:44.160 because the social fabric

00:25:46.880 is kind of constantly under attack

00:25:48.680 by the addition of new people.

00:25:51.040 Everyone just lets everything fall into disrepair.

00:25:53.600 And so we walk through the high streets

00:25:55.960 and you can see the quality of the buildings.

00:25:58.600 They're falling apart because they're not being upkept.

00:26:00.740 And then you look at the actual high streets themselves

00:26:02.640 and they're all boarded up, just boarded up shops.

00:26:06.140 And often what they'll do is they'll wallpaper on

00:26:08.500 a picture of an active shop.

00:26:11.400 So it's like, yeah, this used to be a high street.

00:26:13.340 oh that's creepy yeah because and then that's not the fault of necessarily immigration or anything 0.99

00:26:17.880 like that but then you get lots of foreign shops springing up in the town centers where the 0.98

00:26:22.560 immigrants live and so where i live this has happened in the last three years four years like

00:26:29.320 just before the covid pandemic this was a relatively normal english town but immigration

00:26:34.380 keeps going and now someone like a quarter of the town is foreign born and it's really noticeable in

00:26:41.880 town center and i work in the town center so i'm going and like it's just every day it's just

00:26:46.040 it's like being in the bazaar of baghdad like it's not any if if it was a people from somewhere

00:26:52.280 you know you could at least be like right okay that's predictable you know i can get to know

00:26:56.280 the culture i could possibly learn some of the language i can learn the habits i could make some

00:27:00.520 friends in that culture but it's not like that because these people are from literally everywhere

00:27:05.000 in the world and they don't know each other they don't share a common culture or common heritage or

00:27:09.400 language or current religion and so it's just people like this sort of nomad mass of

00:27:17.560 of humanity that's just wandering around a small well it's not small actually it's quite a large

00:27:24.020 town in wiltshire and it's just like what are you doing here you know you you can't possibly

00:27:29.000 have known when you were living 50 000 miles away that my town even existed before you arrived

00:27:35.560 this i don't believe you knew that this place existed before you got to the uk how did you

00:27:39.820 arrive here you know but uh but anyway so yeah things are things are degrading and people feel

00:27:46.960 alienated i actually walked past a friend of mine then this is another thing that really bothers me

00:27:51.920 is that i've lived in this town for 25 years and my family is from one of the sort of suburbs of

00:27:58.860 this town and i i have had loads of friends here and whenever i walk through the town center i'd

00:28:08.780 you know bumpers two or three people i met even though there's 250 000 people in the area of

00:28:13.820 swindon where i live but it was it had a kind of small town vibe because it wasn't a city

00:28:18.460 and so everyone kind of knew everyone else so you'd recognize them from hanging out with someone

00:28:24.040 else whatever and so i'd walk through the town i bumped friends and family and stuff but that just

00:28:27.780 never happens anymore i bumped into an old friend of mine and we were just standing in the middle of

00:28:32.160 the shopping center in the town surrounded by just people from all over the world and he's like mate

00:28:36.140 i feel like a stranger in my own land he's been here his whole life and he feels totally alienated

00:28:41.800 from the town he's been born and raised in that's how quickly this has happened and this is what's

00:28:47.640 happened to these people and to me and it's just it's not fair you know it's not fair to do this

00:28:53.920 to these people that's wild i feel i feel like toronto toronto was always kind of a melting pot

00:29:00.960 of people and but they were all kind of canadian right so they like they'd immigrate but they were

00:29:10.940 all canadian like they they there was it was a melting pot it would but it was nice um and i

00:29:16.780 left canada a couple years ago when the covid didn't stop there when they shut down everything

00:29:23.200 and wrecked downtown. I was like, okay, this is heading in a bad direction. I'm going to go to

00:29:26.800 America. That seems to be... There's America crazy, but there's at least pockets in America

00:29:32.400 that aren't crazy. And in Canada, I couldn't find that anymore. It boggles my mind that

00:29:37.080 government officials didn't see any issues. They must have at least foreseen the healthcare

00:29:44.940 system having issues. You'd think if you had that job, you'd be like, hey,

00:29:50.700 this seems like immigration is great let's get these people in but let's definitely make sure

00:29:55.620 we have health care for everyone who still lives there and is going to come like how do you miss

00:30:00.480 that it seems important doesn't it a little bit it's important and pensions as well just like 0.87

00:30:07.060 one of the reasons that the British government brings in so many foreigners is because they 1.00

00:30:11.460 think well we need people to pay for pensions it's like they get old too like you know they 1.00

00:30:15.380 don't stay young forever they also get old and draw a pension and so it's a pyramid scheme

00:30:21.200 effectively to try and keep the pensions up um but i i tell you in canada at least i mean like

00:30:27.000 you say you know they felt convenient because i guess canada's had a lot of immigration for a long

00:30:31.160 time right britain's never had immigration like 1948 49 something like that was the very first

00:30:38.420 time we really had immigration to this country and even then it was about four or five hundred

00:30:42.680 people like four or five hundred people and so for most of the 20th century britain was just a

00:30:50.340 british country it was just the native population of britain that lived here and then towards the

00:30:55.620 end in the in the 90s the government's decided we're just going to open up the borders completely 0.70

00:31:00.340 and now a quarter of england is foreign born and it's just like okay but we're not prepared for 0.94

00:31:07.060 this like we don't have like in america it's fine because they've got an ideology for it right

00:31:12.240 they're like oh you you've got the american dream we have americanism we can we can define in like

00:31:17.180 five points what it is to be an american and so you have a very clear set of instructions on what

00:31:22.520 you're supposed to do as an immigrant to america to fit in with americans we don't have anything

00:31:27.640 like that we're nothing like that we're an old world country we're an ancient country

00:31:31.400 we're a thousand years old you know we're not prepared for this and so it's just like they're

00:31:37.400 there and so basically you get what in america you call white flight uh we don't really call it 0.89

00:31:42.840 that over here but that's what's happening um but it's happening without it's happening really fast

00:31:50.440 and it's it's allowing the cities of england to become non-english so my london is 37 english

00:31:59.000 luten's 33 i think leicester's about 34 birmingham's sort of like 40 45 english and this just changes

00:32:06.940 the character of these places it's not that the people in them are bad or anything like that

00:32:10.860 they're not bad people you know thank god otherwise it'd be pandemonium but it's something

00:32:17.200 that nobody asked for you know there was never a vote in this country shall we have millions of

00:32:22.180 people come and live here this is just something the politicians have been doing to us for 25 years

00:32:25.900 and no one knows why and for some reason they won't make it stop i mean the the home secretary

00:32:30.340 at the moment was a woman called swella braveman who was an indian woman who was like we need to

00:32:35.160 stop immigration this is crazy we're destroying our country for some reason she herself is an

00:32:39.460 immigrant but it's not an irrational thing to say she's completely correct and i know loads of people 1.00

00:32:43.960 who are themselves immigrants well yeah you can't let the whole world in her she can have

00:32:47.880 everything and she got fired by the conservative prime minister who is also an indian but not

00:32:54.620 because it was like racist or something it was because the press just start flapping their gums 0.96

00:32:59.700 and oh no there's a there's a there's a furore in the press now it's like but what she's right

00:33:06.080 everyone knows she's right you know and there's she's currently getting a huge amount of support

00:33:10.220 for being right because she's like the only person in the government who's prepared to tell the truth

00:33:14.780 and it's just this weird unmentionable thing but like we're not uh a new country we're not an

00:33:22.320 a new world country we're not a social contract country you know we're a country that is based

00:33:27.060 on ancient traditions based on an ancient population i mean there are there are people

00:33:31.780 in britain there was an in cheddar gorge right they found the skeleton of a man that dated back

00:33:37.740 about 9 000 years to the ice age and so they started dna testing people in the local area

00:33:43.780 and two miles away they found his direct descendant he was a history teacher two miles away

00:33:49.860 9 000 years of time his descendants living there and so that that should tell you how

00:33:55.700 ancient this place is and so it's just bizarre to me that we're prepared to just treat it like

00:34:01.720 it's some sort of undiscovered land you know the government's prepared to just act as if this is a

00:34:05.860 new frontier we need to bring as many people as we can that's not the case sorry i'm going on but

00:34:10.200 it's the primary issue in my country yeah and i like i'd forgotten about that that's all like

00:34:16.260 it's obvious once you say it but because it britain is compared to like the u.s or canada

00:34:22.380 in terms of immigration and it's true canada is really new and everybody there was immigrants

00:34:26.940 like all my grandparents yeah were you know weren't born my great-grandparents anyway weren't

00:34:31.660 born in canada and then it's same with the us i like attract back relatives to something like the

00:34:37.900 1600s so like early but that was the beginning right it wasn't it wasn't older than that yeah

00:34:43.580 that does and so then we have had hundreds of years to kind of figure out how to include

00:34:49.980 immigrants because everybody was an immigrant to begin with that's definitely different than

00:34:54.960 britain and your countries are also massive yes very england is actually really tiny like it's

00:35:01.840 actually a really small and really dense the it's something like the fifth most densely populated

00:35:06.220 place on the earth you know it's it's really small from a land scale uh i mean genuinely like

00:35:13.480 pull up a map and put like you'll probably be able to find a map that someone's interposed

00:35:18.000 england into but it's probably smaller than new england you know it's it's really actually very

00:35:23.580 small uh and it's also very old and so but we're being treated like we're the american frontier

00:35:28.620 by our own governments and it's just ruining everything that we've got and and again it's

00:35:34.460 not the immigrants are bad people or anything like that and it's not that we can never have 1.00

00:35:37.280 any so that none of them should live here it's just we take a million a year yeah that for that 0.97

00:35:44.520 amount of space that's mad this is yeah so anyway that's that's the problem with england at the

00:35:49.660 moment it's falling apart so do you think okay so two questions i feel like the same kind of thing

00:35:55.520 happened uh in paris right oh yeah didn't paris have massive immigration and then paris started

00:36:01.120 to not look like paris yep so that um yeah i went there a couple years ago i was like oh this is

00:36:08.680 really multicultural this is more I was expecting French people yeah not not it's the same in a lot

00:36:14.980 of parts of London in central London there are still a lot of English people because it's where

00:36:18.940 the fancy stuff happens but you are I went through Paris a few years ago and it was just I mean you

00:36:24.840 know I could have been in the Middle East you know do you think do you think do you think you're doomed

00:36:32.000 as a country or do you think things are going to reach a point where everybody recognizes there's

00:36:37.380 an issue and things are going to turn around to be honest with you everyone recognizes that

00:36:42.300 there's an issue already so you're already at that point oh yeah uh consistently the british

00:36:48.060 public has been 60 plus against immigration not not like you know like you know maybe no no we

00:36:57.560 want less immigration and that's been for decades uh for some reason the politicians just don't care

00:37:02.520 and for some reason the british public only vote for left or right they you know the blue or red

00:37:07.560 uh for some reason they won't vote for a third alternative that will actually do something about

00:37:12.320 it so i i mean doomed is a strong word that i probably wouldn't use because we've we're a very 1.00

00:37:21.740 old country things have been worse right there was a time in our history when the vikings owned

00:37:26.780 there used to be seven kingdoms in england the vikings conquered all but one and that one kingdom

00:37:32.280 went on to reconquer all of england oh wow that was alfred the great um so it's been worse it's

00:37:40.520 been way worse um but it's not looking good the problem is not that things are unsalvageable the

00:37:47.480 problem is we're on a set of rails and there's no light at the end of the tunnel and we are just

00:37:52.880 going to keep going down these rails so things about now in 50 years time they're going to be

00:37:56.980 way worse but 50 years after that it doesn't really bear thinking about yeah but we could 0.99

00:38:04.980 change this at any time did the vikings stick around because they're a subset of the populations

00:38:10.000 there are vikings or did they get kicked out or killed i guess both all three actually um so

00:38:19.520 initially um alfred uh reconquered about half of england and his grandson went on to conquer

00:38:27.580 the rest which kicked out all the viking rulers um but there were still populations of danes

00:38:33.500 living here and then a chap called ethelred the unready uh conducted a kind of rwanda style

00:38:39.500 massacre of danes in england uh this was in about the 9900s you know so this is the sort of thing

00:38:46.800 people did in the 900s i mean and don't feel don't feel bad for the vikings right they had

00:38:51.880 come over as genocidal rapists and pillagers right okay okay you know don't they they settle 0.52

00:38:57.100 their area by killing the people in the area don't feel bad for these guys you know and they did this 0.97

00:39:02.200 all over europe and in the mediterranean and in russia and you know they weren't good guys don't

00:39:07.340 feel bad for them but this then backfired and a lot of history happens but basically the there is

00:39:15.320 a i can't remember what the proportion is but it's probably like 10 or 15 percent of

00:39:19.520 if you were to dna sequence the english you'd find it was danish uh genes um and then about

00:39:25.920 half celtic and about third anglo-saxon or 40 anglo-saxon um so the english are very much a

00:39:32.220 sort of mongol race you know um and the danes definitely did contribute to it but um but that 0.93

00:39:37.700 took a thousand years you know it's a very long long time and we kind of made it happen you know 1.00

00:39:44.140 we we had kings who were going to do it by the sword um we don't have a government who's prepared

00:39:49.760 to do anything like that these days and probably for the better probably probably yeah i feel like

00:39:58.180 there's so many wars recently that uh you think when you're growing up oh this is stuff that

00:40:03.220 happened back in the uh you know hundreds of years ago this doesn't happen anymore and i feel like

00:40:08.420 there's more and more events happening now that like oh people are still people like we have these

00:40:13.400 rules in society and you're like well our society is more advanced it doesn't do things like this

00:40:17.700 anymore um and that seems to not be true at all yeah this is um this is liberalism uh telling us

00:40:28.060 fairy tales i'd say uh liberalism is kind of like a magical spell it kind of casts itself over your

00:40:36.680 mind and i was a liberal for many years like consciously a liberal and then i just started

00:40:42.520 reading through all of the sort of canonical texts of liberalism and comparing them to what

00:40:48.160 had happened and to other philosophies and i realized that it's just really well-meaning

00:40:53.060 but it's wrong um it begins with the idea of a kind of universal human a sort of proto you know

00:40:59.640 universal person who's running around on his own in the woods and one day he bumps into another

00:41:06.960 person and they don't really care about each other because they're just getting pine cones and

00:41:10.700 acorns and stuff fruit from the woods but one day for some reason they decide hey should we form a

00:41:15.600 government and a society and they're like yeah that's great and that never happened that's just

00:41:20.740 a total fancy but that's what liberalism believed uh and that's the bedrock of liberalism and that's

00:41:26.180 what it's actually trying to get us back to the the concept of rights even in the sort of classical

00:41:30.060 liberal thing is based on the idea of what can a man do when he's alone in the woods you know

00:41:34.740 he can speak he can own weaponry he can own property he can get his own food he can dispose

00:41:39.740 of his own property if there was a market in his own way that's that's what liberalism is trying

00:41:44.060 to get back to is the idea of the atomized man in the woods but that's just never been the case

00:41:48.520 and so right liberalism is trying to bring about a kind of fiction and so it it's trying to create

00:41:55.060 these kind of universal men who are just the sum of this very sort of narrow corridor of rights

00:42:00.160 and saying right all humans have these rights and in a way yes but what that does is when you

00:42:06.300 abstract man away from society you have to abstract all of the particulars of society

00:42:12.000 from the man and so okay he's got a different religion he's got a different language he's got

00:42:17.040 culture he has different interests you know all of those things have to be taken away to get the

00:42:22.740 universal man but they're actually all real things that really exist in the world and actually really

00:42:27.520 inform how people act and so actually there was never a universal man we're not all the same

00:42:33.540 actually we're all different and we don't really understand those guys either that's the thing you

00:42:38.040 really don't understand how those people think and liberalism makes us arrogant enough to think

00:42:44.760 well no they'll all just become like us and we're seeing that's not true we're seeing that's just

00:42:50.840 not the case um and so this is why i stopped being liberal basically hey popping in again

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00:43:44.920 enjoy the rest of the episode i feel like i believed that until i was

00:43:50.900 until I was exposed to people more. I literally thought people were just like me until I was,

00:43:59.300 I don't know, 26. And I started traveling and I went to Eastern Europe for quite a long time.

00:44:06.300 And wow, are Eastern Europeans different than Westerners? I was blown away at how different 1.00

00:44:15.200 the belief system is and how that changes things. And it felt a lot more tribal,

00:44:20.900 there and canada is like what's canada it's it's not really a tribe i don't it's just a bunch of

00:44:28.120 like people i'm not even sure what canada is but wow are there other places tribal well the thing

00:44:36.340 is like what we think of as normal is our tribe that's the thing but we've conditioned ourselves

00:44:43.900 to not see it as our tribe um but other places outside of us do see this as our tribe they see

00:44:51.220 this as our sort of like liberalism is kind of like sharia law for the english-speaking world

00:44:56.340 like we come and we insist on your human rights we insist on these things but they are like okay

00:45:02.480 well give me a house if you want you know but i don't believe in anglo sharia yeah i got you know 0.96

00:45:10.400 i'm gonna go home and i'm gonna be just as tribal as i was in my own tribe in the way that you kind

00:45:15.880 of are in your tribe and you know you're you're imposing this on us but like we don't believe it 0.68

00:45:21.580 in the same way as a bunch of muslim you know jihadists were to impose sharia on me i'd be like 0.82

00:45:25.620 okay but i don't believe it i just don't get my head cut off or you know that's like i don't want

00:45:29.300 to go to jail for violating your human rights or whatever right they don't believe it uh but i mean

00:45:34.080 some do don't get me wrong but like a lot don't and that when you when you take it to other 0.87

00:45:38.680 societies it's just a total failure you know i mean iraq would be the primary example they just 0.98

00:45:44.600 don't think like us we just can't do it afghanistan is another great example like oh we're

00:45:48.860 gonna set up a liberal democracy in afghanistan it's like you're mad you don't know these people

00:45:54.000 if you think that's gonna work and the second america pulls out the whole thing

00:45:58.540 like implodes in a vacuum so you know it's we do not understand them and we're so arrogant as to

00:46:06.800 think that oh we've got liberalism we've got all the answers to everything so we don't really have

00:46:11.040 any answers to any of these things and the when you were saying about wars like that's the that's

00:46:15.380 the the thing about liberalism it believes it can bring us to the end of history and francis

00:46:20.160 fukiyama wrote the book you know the end of history oh we've got past wars what we're going

00:46:25.360 to do is now just be individual free agents you know the liberal dream roaming about in the forest

00:46:30.840 but in society haven't we figured all this out it's like the rest of the world hasn't got the

00:46:35.040 memo actually you know there is a little still like old world so um so yeah that's how i stopped

00:46:41.140 being a liberal basically so do you think a more accurate representation rather than individualism

00:46:47.580 is that generally speaking people are tribal and people should understand that individualism is a

00:46:55.400 tribe that's the thing um and i think that's that we fail to see that about ourselves um it's the

00:47:01.920 english-speaking world that's individualist you know and we have encouraged uh say the french and

00:47:08.960 the germans to try and adopt that as well but the problem is they don't really have the same sorts

00:47:13.000 of cultural institutions that the english-speaking world have and so when we in the anglosphere look 0.82

00:47:20.120 over at them you know what they're doing they're doing it wrong of course they're doing it wrong

00:47:25.720 because really liberalism is the formalization

00:47:29.860 of just the political traditions of the English-speaking world.

00:47:33.420 You know, everything intermeshes together,

00:47:36.160 like the common law is interwoven with the concepts

00:47:40.280 that build up liberalism, like habeas corpus,

00:47:42.620 like free speech, like personal sovereignty.

00:47:45.320 You know, all of these are like English political concepts

00:47:47.680 that of course got spread around with the British Empire,

00:47:49.960 but also got enviously looked upon

00:47:52.660 by the sort of ideologists in the Enlightenment.

00:47:56.660 And the French specifically,

00:47:58.040 you've got plenty of people like Voltaire, Rousseau.

00:48:01.060 You've got a couple of others.

00:48:02.240 I can't remember the names of them

00:48:03.180 because they're weird French names.

00:48:04.720 But they expressly say,

00:48:06.420 like the guy who coined the term ideology,

00:48:10.100 Antoine Le Fay, or something like that,

00:48:13.080 I think his name is,

00:48:14.340 he expressly cites Thomas Hobbes and John Locke

00:48:17.620 as his inspirations for this.

00:48:19.280 They're consciously looking to the rights of Englishmen

00:48:22.200 because England was a relatively free and fair place.

00:48:25.380 And this is why every political revolutionary goes to London.

00:48:29.180 They all go to London, like Marx, Rousseau, the fascists.

00:48:33.880 When they're exiled from somewhere, they go to London because that's safe.

00:48:37.700 We're not just going to persecute them

00:48:39.000 because we have a kind of ancient political settlement

00:48:41.800 that kind of works for everyone.

00:48:43.180 And that is what becomes formulated into liberalism.

00:48:46.160 And it works in America, which is the sort of preeminent liberal project

00:48:50.020 because it was fundamentally like founding anglo stock you know english stock and so really all

00:48:54.820 you're doing there is you're like telling people this is what you believe isn't it and they go

00:48:58.720 yeah that is what we believe it's like great well we're gonna have these rules it's like okay but

00:49:03.200 that's what we're doing anyway i guess we'll write them down and we'll have a formal constitution

00:49:06.900 it's like okay great everyone agrees because you already believe these things but when you take

00:49:10.900 that somewhere else like south america for example which is of course all spanish speaking or

00:49:15.380 portuguese um you get massively corrupt democracies in which um no one in the english-speaking world

00:49:25.260 would recognize as free countries uh and so it's just like okay well that didn't work why didn't

00:49:31.320 that work well because it requires essentially and uh the rousseau i don't like very much but

00:49:37.720 he was right on this it doesn't really matter what the constitution is it has to be it doesn't

00:49:42.000 no matter what's written it has to be inscribed on the hearts of the people and so what he means

00:49:46.500 is it has to be genuinely felt it has to be a lived experience dare i say it uh for the people

00:49:52.780 of that country and you only get that when you're born and raised in an authentic tradition that

00:49:58.340 everyone around you is doing and has been doing for you know for generations and you can't just

00:50:04.040 impose that well yeah and i think i suppose maybe part of the reason we've seen such kickback at

00:50:11.340 least in Canada, was because they started imposing laws that people didn't agree with

00:50:16.240 and then there was an uproar, right?

00:50:18.700 You know, we wrote down all these laws everybody agrees with.

00:50:22.440 We haven't had issues so far.

00:50:23.920 Here's a new one we'd like to impose on you guys and then like chaos and hell ensue.

00:50:29.840 Interesting.

00:50:30.080 Go to save the truckers.

00:50:31.760 Yeah.

00:50:32.000 That's what I want to say.

00:50:33.140 Yeah, agreed.

00:50:35.080 So, okay, I checked out your YouTube and you're like, you're not on YouTube.

00:50:39.380 and so why is it like not i mean you're you've got a massive channel on youtube but

00:50:44.860 the your uploads are elsewhere has youtube been a problem for you well they demonetize my channel

00:50:52.520 and so i thought well i won't bother and so we created a website called lotusseaters.com but

00:50:58.080 we do have a youtube channel called the podcast of the lotusseaters so actually we upload lots

00:51:02.700 of stuff there rather than on my channel um really i'm kind of doing out of spite

00:51:06.920 because i i don't like we we broadcast the website so that's you know where the labor goes

00:51:14.100 because people subscribe to the website for five or a month and that's how we pay for the bills you

00:51:19.280 know because obviously youtube won't last monetize and so we do put clips up on youtube just because

00:51:24.320 you know youtube's a big platform yeah kind of got to use it but it's not the primary one that

00:51:29.460 we put our effort into just because i it's i'm just kind of resentful like i don't think i'm

00:51:34.520 actually terribly politically radical and youtube just like no yeah demonetized okay fine you know

00:51:40.300 fine why did you get did so you got permanently demonetized yeah yeah because why about a

00:51:46.100 politician it was like okay oh wow politicians i mean that's a sign of a free society it was a

00:51:52.880 very rude joke i'm not going to say it wasn't but like i mean politicians used to be fair game

00:51:58.300 that's you know in in my country anyway i mean maybe not in california where youtube was making

00:52:04.180 their judgments but uh wow okay that's wild i know i'm still on youtube i just put anything

00:52:14.020 that's like too too controversial on rumble that's very wise it's very nice like i'm not

00:52:20.960 gonna fight that monster oh you did yeah yeah i just started my little rumble channel it's only

00:52:26.600 like 3 000 subscribers or whatever but like it's just nice to be able to because what i used to do

00:52:30.760 with my youtube channel after we even after we started lotus eaters like i used to just sit in

00:52:35.020 front of my camera and just do a stream and just talk for an hour you know just to just to be in

00:52:40.240 contact with the people who are subscribing to me but youtube is just such a belligerent platform i

00:52:44.380 don't want to do it whereas rumble is such a welcoming platform i'm like yeah okay i'll use

00:52:48.080 you you know because you're actually you seem to be invested in me as a content creator why would

00:52:52.980 i give my labor to a platform that actually seems to kind of hate me and all my friends as well

00:52:56.940 like you know literally everyone i'm friends with on the internet youtube's like oh that's a bad

00:53:02.060 person demonetizing the gold icon or get shadow banned and it's just like can't we just have our

00:53:10.380 thoughts you know oh i don't know if you know about this so my mom just got a strike on her

00:53:15.100 channel she's got a small channel she does a podcast she's like 50 000 subscribers and she

00:53:20.520 had this like 90 year old holocaust survivor on and the holocaust survivor said covid was a fraud

00:53:27.700 you know and so that that was up on youtube and she got a strike on her channel and they mandated

00:53:33.680 um social media training so it wasn't just a strike and you remove the video she has to do

00:53:40.300 some sort of training i've never heard of that it's a new thing that youtube have brought in

00:53:44.800 i'm actually super careful about gang strikes so uh you know in the office as a team we keep very

00:53:51.940 careful track of what the youtube guy does because people have realized youtube has editorial

00:53:57.080 guidelines like as i understand it the law in the united states that prevents youtube from being sued

00:54:02.980 by people instead of the person who uploads something say defamatory or libelous is because

00:54:09.600 they say well we're just a platform we're just here to host content and therefore the person who

00:54:13.520 puts the content up is the person responsible for the editorial decision and therefore they're the

00:54:18.840 ones you sue we get out scot-free and that's i can't remember that is like section 280 or something

00:54:25.000 i can't remember what it's called right but um but youtube now has editorial policies so it's okay

00:54:29.540 well could someone please take that to court so the court's like no you you make editorial decisions

00:54:34.720 on a whole manner of things you can sue youtube and then i tell you what they will stop with their

00:54:39.840 editorial guidelines very very quickly when it becomes apparent that actually people can sue

00:54:43.860 youtube because they're not adhering to the standard that allows them to act without being

00:54:48.340 sued so i mean i think that would go very far in an american court i'm not an expert but like

00:54:54.760 it seems it seems like a fruitful thing for so i know i know this sort of like youtube lawyers

00:54:59.880 there's a culture of youtube lawyers i don't know why none of them are sort of like hey why don't

00:55:03.580 we push that you know when we see that where that goes you know because they they don't have to pay

00:55:07.580 for a lawyer you know so yeah yeah exactly okay so you're just careful with youtube sorry that

00:55:14.560 seems like a good idea i that i told my mom that too i was like don't fight it you can't fight it

00:55:19.540 you can't really write something and they're going to change their guidelines it's just you have to

00:55:22.600 be careful about what content you put on youtube to play the system yeah unfortunately absolute

00:55:28.140 tyranny when it comes to youtube you've got no right of appeal you know if they give you the

00:55:32.680 appeal you're very lucky and if they deny it there's nothing you can do about it there's no

00:55:35.860 arbiter you're just under the tyranny so you've just got to be smart and just accept okay these

00:55:42.600 are the rules i'll have to play by them yeah agreed unfortunately because because i guess

00:55:48.300 people are told you know fight back against other things but youtube's kind of this giant behemoth

00:55:52.980 that maybe something else will pop along in the future but it's pretty big and there's nothing

00:55:58.360 you can do either really you know you've got you've got no leverage over youtube so it's very

00:56:04.440 frustrating so you said well i suppose okay so identifying as a traditionalist i don't know if

00:56:11.740 you would use the words identify as a traditionalist or not but that doesn't count as an

00:56:16.160 ideology no no because i don't have a pre-formatted image of what the world should look like

00:56:24.840 um i can't tell you what you know there isn't just a list of things that we can do to create

00:56:30.680 the perfect traditional society um a tradition isn't something that any one person's got control

00:56:36.920 over it's the combined result of the actions of many people over a great deal of time

00:56:44.280 all working independently of each other but in the same direction and so traditions are kind of like

00:56:52.800 kind of like a civilizational trial and error and they build up their own ways of doing things and

00:57:00.080 They build up their own character that's based on the sort of people who are doing it.

00:57:03.520 So, for example, I mean, a great example in Britain is the coronation of the king or queen.

00:57:09.760 You recognize that as being obviously British, but lots of other countries have kings and queens and have coronation ceremonies.

00:57:16.480 It's just that they're different in character to our one, even though they are kind of in the same mold.

00:57:23.780 But if you add an ideology, it could be that they could all be exactly the same.

00:57:27.680 you know so these are products of kind of they're like they're almost organic you know i mean like

00:57:33.100 this sort of thing that grows and changes like a tree and that's kind of what a tradition's like

00:57:38.900 it's kind of like a river maybe i like that how did you manage to switch your views from

00:57:45.260 more liberal to being more open like how did you did did you grieve that process like was there a

00:57:54.660 because I've had some of my belief systems change when I started recognizing that what I believed

00:57:59.480 was a total lie and I feel like it really turned my life upside down right I didn't know what to

00:58:05.180 believe I was like is anything true is anything I believed true what else do what else am I

00:58:10.460 believing that's a lie I don't want to believe anything that's a lie like did you have that kind

00:58:15.300 of switch it wasn't overnight it was a gradual process but it was it was more about being

00:58:24.460 humble in the scope of what i believed um because the problem with ideology is because it's abstract

00:58:32.060 it becomes universal and so you say well every person should live like this because i think

00:58:36.300 that's good and maybe for you that would be good and maybe for a small number of people or maybe

00:58:40.680 even a town or a city or even a country that might be good but you can't help but expand it to all

00:58:47.700 mankind because it begins on you personally and in the sort of liberal framework that

00:58:54.780 most ideologies reside like libertarianism is a form of liberalism socialism is an outgrowth

00:59:00.940 of liberalism you know they they rest on the same philosophical foundations and so

00:59:05.260 you can't help but believe your constituency is all mankind and that gives you a really big and

00:59:12.860 broad and insane conception of the world right that's kind of mad like yeah no i'm in my head

00:59:19.980 i'm legislating for all humanity not just now but all through the past and all into the future

00:59:25.980 for all of time my idea is like the idea it's like that's wild man like i don't know

00:59:33.820 you know i'm still struggling what time my kids are going to go to bed really you know

00:59:37.980 so like it was about being a bit more humble with the scope of what i thought was right and

00:59:42.700 wrong and locating it to my own country which at least i have direct experience of and i can look

00:59:51.060 at the things we do even if they're a bit irrational and a bit kooky as you know british

00:59:56.600 politics i mean like why why are we shouting at each other in the house of commons because we've

01:00:02.020 always shouted at each other in the house of commons it must have a function even if i don't 0.96

01:00:05.260 know what it is and yeah it's kind of embarrassing when a foreigner's like oh my god is that how you 0.74

01:00:09.120 conduct politics say yes kind of it is embarrassing but but it must work in some way and so i'll 0.70

01:00:15.780 accept it and you know that's something we do and it's a part of the wider tapestry and this is

01:00:21.680 another thing like there are connections between things that you don't see you don't even know

01:00:27.700 they're there until they're gone and it's only at that point that it's too late to bring them back

01:00:34.140 uh to restore the thing that was doing something that you didn't realize it was doing

01:00:39.160 and this is the problem of ideology as well as it highlights some linkages and makes invisible

01:00:46.920 arrest and so you know the like this the shouting in the housing of houses of parliament might have

01:00:53.860 a real sort of calming effect on people politically or something like that i don't know you know

01:00:58.260 but it probably does something that i'm just not aware of and so it's this kind of humbling of

01:01:03.220 okay i don't have all the answers actually and maybe maybe taking smaller steps in a local

01:01:09.360 position like much like the sort of thing a dad advises actually so i look maybe if i just start

01:01:13.900 with what's directly around me and make small changes incrementally over time might be better

01:01:19.580 than revolution you know it might be better than trying to change everything for all humanity for

01:01:24.160 all of time and see my life has got immeasurably better on a just immediate personal level and for

01:01:31.740 my family and my friends and my business um since i've had that kind of conscious understanding of

01:01:37.720 this is the way forward you know that's it's definitely much better for the individual person

01:01:42.380 i think well i'm not going to be able to say i'm a libertarian after this podcast

01:01:47.800 morally so you've taken that it will if it helps like think i just don't know how to frame it what's

01:01:55.140 it what's it called i'm not sure so i i have libertarian instincts right i don't like the

01:02:00.920 state getting involved with stuff i don't like people i don't like the fact that i can't be

01:02:05.020 armed right it really bothers me like there's something on a genuine emotional level i'm

01:02:09.420 actually bothered that i can't really own a sidearm you know i could get a shotgun or a

01:02:13.620 hunting rifle or something but hey the state would be like why do you want it i'd be like

01:02:17.360 i want to go duck hunting i want to go pigeon shooting you're not allowed it for home defense 0.75

01:02:22.320 and i'm like i'm i want to have a gun on my hip so i can shoot someone who attacks me actually 0.77

01:02:28.640 that's why i want the gun you know but i can't say that you know now i've said on the podcast

01:02:33.040 i'll probably never get a license for a gun um but like so like having having these sort of

01:02:38.260 instincts is totally fine and from the sort of left-wing position like i want to help people

01:02:43.200 you know that's the the socialist impulse i think genuinely comes from a position of a desire to help

01:02:49.960 humanity and the people around them right it's just they don't really know how to do it and so

01:02:54.720 they've and and the socialists come pre-packaged with a whole ream of ideology that tells them

01:03:00.800 look believe these things advocate this you're a good person and you're going to win and that's

01:03:05.580 seductive it's hard not to be it's hard not to be taken along by that you know and so i think

01:03:12.480 rather than being committed to the ideology it's worth thinking of yourself as just being inclined

01:03:17.920 having the the moral sentiment towards the thing that underpins the ideology whether it's

01:03:24.580 freedom whether it's cooperation whether it's care for others and that's that's you know that's

01:03:29.340 at least you not relinquishing the sort of core of yourself but also managing to sort of get the

01:03:34.900 sludge of the ideology off yourself and because that was the thing coming out of liberalism

01:03:39.380 really felt like i was coming out like the matrix like you know he's in the slime and he's just like

01:03:44.040 pulls the thing out of his mouth he's like where the hell am i i kind of felt like that when i was

01:03:47.800 coming out of liberalism i think that's just what ideology is like it covers you in a sludge

01:03:51.220 I need to kind of just scrape it off and be like right okay I feel genuinely quite wholesome and

01:03:56.780 decent let's begin from here you know that I like that that's kind of how I felt yeah I was like

01:04:04.620 get it off I was so angry too when some of my belief systems fell apart I was just like how 0.66

01:04:09.060 could I have been so stupid yeah like like I was lied to and that's why I believe these things but 0.84

01:04:15.120 how could I have just believed these things and for me it started with the health care system in 0.99

01:04:20.100 canada thinking and i was quite ill and trusted the health care system and doctors and things

01:04:26.120 and then when that fell apart it's just everything fell apart it was like well

01:04:29.220 what other figure of authority is telling me that they're there for my benefit and i trust them when

01:04:35.660 i shouldn't and so that makes you like you get hit a couple of times with those belief systems

01:04:41.340 falling apart and hopefully it makes you humble about not not knowing what else you have wrong

01:04:46.520 yeah it's quite mad isn't it but i can't go over the canadian health care system

01:04:52.280 like oh and you should hear canadians talk about it like we've got the best health care system in

01:04:57.580 the world it's free like there's a reason it's free you should hear people talk about the nhs

01:05:05.660 the nhs is our god uh england isn't a country with a health service the health service is the

01:05:12.720 health service with a country uh we live to serve the nhs if without the nhs everyone in england

01:05:18.120 dies you see uh and we we praise and worship the nhs like literally like some sort of totemic idol

01:05:25.100 where you have to make sacrifices to it um and it's it's mental it's just mental and you know

01:05:32.140 i mean don't worry i like having a public health care option i like i like the fact that option

01:05:36.360 yeah yeah um i don't want to worship it as a god uh actually yeah weirdly but um i can't stand the

01:05:45.640 maid thing in your country though man oh i i did a an opposing views uh podcast so i had one person

01:05:53.480 who was pro-made on and one person who was anti-made he was from uh america but the pro-made 1.00

01:05:59.200 woman who it was a doctor who spends her time um you know killing people is what she's doing

01:06:07.660 uh it was really quite disturbing it's bad oh go on tell me that well she she was 0.75

01:06:18.220 she was just as creepy as you thought somebody would be she was like stare caricature she was

01:06:24.920 caricature of who i hope to get on to talk about made but it's really you know under the guise of

01:06:31.500 compassion you know and i so i was asking questions like well what happens if people are young and

01:06:37.420 mentally ill and um and now you can still apply for made when you're young and mentally ill in

01:06:44.300 canada was like well you can get very suicidal and very depressed and not have that be your entire

01:06:50.600 life right it's just and that like i struggled with a quite severe depression and and pain from

01:07:00.600 surgeries and things and not being able to get health care fast enough because good old canada

01:07:05.800 and there were points where i was suicidal and there were points when well it was it's just

01:07:12.300 having that as an option is so dangerous for people who already feel like they're a burden

01:07:17.160 on society and they're a burden on their family and they don't know if they're going to get better

01:07:20.400 it's just i can't believe that's happening under the guise of compassion it's so

01:07:27.140 dystopian it's so disturbing and it's like 10 000 people a year as well isn't it yeah for now

01:07:35.680 yeah yeah it's it's like sick i saw a stat it was the sixth biggest killer in canada

01:07:41.940 is the government and i again i don't want to get all libertarian about it but that

01:07:46.720 feels a bit wrong uh and i've seen some like accounts where you know people who are just

01:07:54.020 mildly inconvenienced by something get a letter through and say have you considered killing

01:07:58.020 yourself yes no no i haven't you know i wanted but there was this woman who wanted a stair lift

01:08:04.100 installed yeah my mom interviewed her oh really that was right yeah and it was yeah you considered 0.97

01:08:09.700 just shooting like no you you monsters like it's mad it's absolutely mad yeah it's mad have you 0.94

01:08:19.320 considered killing yourself that's i just want to stair lift the stairs are really hard for me 0.99

01:08:24.660 yeah i'm just feeling a bit down today you know could i get some prescriptions to make myself 0.99

01:08:29.520 feel a little better no but we could euthanize you great yeah the thing is as well one thing

01:08:36.440 that really bothers me about this is the way that we look at this through the eyes of the individual

01:08:41.360 alone because i mean i can concede that there could be some circumstances where someone has

01:08:47.740 got like terminal cancer and there's unbelievable pain all the time and it's like look we can

01:08:53.080 because i mean this this happened to my nan when she passed away over covid she didn't pass away

01:08:57.260 from covid she had cancer and so she was basically just morphined up for like the last week or two

01:09:03.880 of her life and yeah i mean i saw her before she went but she was just unconscious and impatient

01:09:09.660 you know just unconscious and groaning and it was just okay this is terrible oh um yeah and so it

01:09:15.260 like you know in a circumstance like that okay yeah i can totally see the validity of a 91 year

01:09:21.340 old woman um being spared that kind of suffering right but there's a difference between that and

01:09:29.600 someone who's 27 and depressed and because they've just you know they've had a series of just reverses

01:09:36.580 in their life you know they broke up their boyfriend they lost their job oh they're getting 0.92

01:09:39.540 kicked out of their apartment okay i may as well just go into the suicide booth and euthanize myself

01:09:43.900 like and there's it's awful and the thing i think that really bothers me is like people aren't just 0.98

01:09:50.740 alone people aren't just individuals right you're connected whatever you everyone is born into a web

01:09:56.280 of relationships with their brothers their sisters their mothers their cousins their aunts their

01:10:01.120 fathers their uncles their grandparents their neighbors their friends you know they like

01:10:06.020 friends to be in the future you know like all of these things all exist in you and are connected

01:10:11.700 to you with like these sort of you know have you ever seen the film donnie darko right oh yeah

01:10:16.000 you know many times weird beam thing that comes out of his chest that's how i kind of view what

01:10:21.380 relationship is these days so he connects two people it's this weird beam and if if the the

01:10:26.180 more you love that person the thicker and brighter that beam is and the less the more it withers away

01:10:31.860 right and if you think of like a person as being situated in reality with these things connecting

01:10:37.860 to everyone they know in some degree and then they've got one only everyone else they know

01:10:42.180 these there's something you see there's this great shining web that connects everyone it's like

01:10:47.220 Like, someone killing themselves ruins the connection that they have with everyone.

01:10:53.480 It destroys it.

01:10:54.000 And it's this real sharp pain that everyone feels.

01:10:56.540 Like, my uncle committed suicide a few years ago.

01:10:59.540 And, man, my cousins have not been the same since.

01:11:02.400 It's been unbelievably painful for them.

01:11:05.420 It breaks my heart, you know.

01:11:07.220 And it's just, you don't realize the damage you do when you do that.

01:11:11.680 You know, you're not the only person who matters here, actually.

01:11:15.080 and the but again it's a kind of consequence of the spell of liberalism it's like well it's your

01:11:20.340 choice it's you it's like okay you're you're feeling a bit mopey but your mom is gonna feel

01:11:26.240 so much worse for what you know for you and and it's so short-sighted in the near future things

01:11:33.420 will get better like it's not going to be like this forever you know yeah no horrible thing

01:11:39.660 about mental illness too is when you're in it it feels like it's going to be there forever it

01:11:44.620 It really does. And you shouldn't have, I don't think you should have that option.

01:11:50.840 And it's funny because, so the guy I talked to who was based in the US, he said, well,

01:11:55.520 there are states that have had gentle ways of dying. So like assisted death for decades and

01:12:01.420 decades, but it's set for these people that are like you described. They're really old and really

01:12:08.180 sick. And it's just like, come on, they don't need to suffer this out. We already know what's

01:12:12.660 going to happen in the end but no one talked about it because that was okay and then yeah

01:12:18.480 yeah yeah it's pretty bad but no that's Canada's screwed though I think for a while yeah I think

01:12:26.480 so too I've got a bunch of Canadian friends they all say the same there's exactly what you're

01:12:30.760 saying you know it's just like all of the problems but this this the thing I was thinking that we 0.99

01:12:36.560 you just said like they we you know they already do this for the old folks who are very old and

01:12:42.640 suffering and dying but no one cares no one talks about it why not and i think it's genuinely

01:12:47.000 something to do with the fact that people live their lives as stories right that your life is

01:12:51.980 your story and you think of it as your story and every story has acts and of course when you're

01:13:00.080 like 80 years old you're in the final act of your story and there's only one conclusion

01:13:03.700 to the final act of the story and that's for you to pass on and so it's normal and natural for that

01:13:10.100 to happen you know and so no one's surprised but there's nothing offensive about it it's inevitable

01:13:15.020 actually and you know i'm not saying we should look forward to it but like we shouldn't like

01:13:20.880 i'm not bothered about growing old like it's really weird like i'm not i'm 44 and i'm actually

01:13:28.120 happier now than i've ever been in my life and i don't see myself getting less happy you know

01:13:34.600 and i'm not bothered by my age i'm not bothered by going gray like i'm actually kind of enjoying it

01:13:40.260 you know it gives you you know i've arrived in a different stage of life where actually i feel

01:13:45.480 like i've got a lot of stuff figured out actually and i can see the young people around me don't

01:13:51.240 have these things figured out and i can see them making the same mistakes i made and i can actually

01:13:54.840 give them some pertinent advice and so like it's not bad to move into the new phases of your story

01:14:01.480 and for some reason and again it's liberalism is the spell here because it thinks of us as kind of

01:14:07.260 self-created humans that have always existed and all exists always exist at year zero it's like no

01:14:12.300 actually we're a long tail and the longer the story goes on for the more rich it becomes and

01:14:18.560 the more worthwhile it is hearing for other people you know and so we look it's just a totally

01:14:23.340 different way of seeing ourselves our civilization our own lives you know the purpose we have with

01:14:28.740 the people around us but it's just i just feel so much better and i'm not like on social justice

01:14:33.920 crusades to try and eliminate you know hardship or anything i'm just watching everyone around me

01:14:38.700 do well and it's good to be a part of it okay that's so nice that would be nice for people to

01:14:45.640 hear i i think i think the same thing i'm like the younger i was the harder the harder life was and

01:14:52.620 that was partly from being ill but it was also partly from i don't i'm not sure although what

01:15:00.060 i can say is the 30s is significantly better than the 20s which isn't something i thought i would

01:15:06.480 say yeah it's totally true because you don't know anything you know you're just inexperienced in

01:15:12.280 your 20s and i mean i remember my 20s and i like had no idea what i was doing at all i was totally

01:15:19.680 unmoored like you think you did i didn't think about it you know i just like bumbled through

01:15:28.780 each day not really thinking very hard about the future and we were never encouraged to think about

01:15:34.220 the future you know there was no nothing around me that was telling me by the way have you been

01:15:38.820 planning for like 10 years time 20 years time and so by the time i was in my mid-30s i hadn't

01:15:43.460 achieved anything really i didn't really i didn't think about it and then i started like a youtube

01:15:49.580 channels because i was pissed off with a few things and suddenly i you know 10 years later

01:15:54.480 i've got this massive youtube channel and i've got business and stuff like that but so i like

01:15:57.880 kind of lucked into being successful but had that not happened i don't even know how it would have

01:16:02.800 become successful i don't you know i would i might may well have not you know and so

01:16:07.160 i i really wish i'd been better advised when i was young to think and have a a more long-term

01:16:16.000 view of my own story you know where you know to view it as like you know you need to take

01:16:21.440 certain steps now to arrive at a certain place then so actually crack on you know trust me you

01:16:27.340 will think it's worth it you know I think I'm really fortunate to have had my dad as my dad

01:16:35.300 because long-term planning long-term planning was built like I don't even remember I remember

01:16:42.780 planning long term when i was in like grade two really it was just built in yeah so i always had

01:16:48.620 a 10-year plan uh now unfortunately like things would change and then that plan would be completely

01:16:55.920 fall apart which kind of hurt but i was all i always had a long-term plan and so i never

01:17:00.940 i never had that and i didn't realize how rare that was so yeah i mean my dad's like a very

01:17:07.340 conservative guy and so he was always like you know you need to think ahead son you know you

01:17:11.600 need to think of this you need to think of that need to work hard but the culture i was submersed

01:17:17.220 in the sort of you know pop culture of the sort of 90s and early 2000s the messaging was the total

01:17:23.900 reverse you know it's literally don't worry about it everything will be fine you're in the end of

01:17:28.240 history basically is what they were saying uh you can just relax and be a wastrel you know that was

01:17:34.340 essentially the message that was coming across and so thinking about it now my dad's good advice

01:17:40.420 was always totally drowned out by this cultural messaging and i've always been a pretty self

01:17:47.360 confident person with my ability to handle whatever's in front of me and so i didn't

01:17:51.740 really listen to it you know and so by the time i got into the lot of my early 30s i was like oh

01:17:55.640 my god what why why don't i have the things i expected to have you know and i mean maybe in

01:18:04.340 your case it's different sort of thing but like i think for most people i think this cultural you

01:18:10.280 know fluid that we exist and swim through is really powerful on a subconscious level i don't

01:18:16.460 think people really think about it but if we had more wholesome and positive messaging rather than

01:18:22.780 the messaging we get out of tv and the music we listen to and if you think about like just

01:18:27.980 take a second to be vaguely critical of the music the lyrics to any music you listen to

01:18:33.560 or the general message of any film that you watch i think is that what i teach my kids you know what

01:18:39.260 i want my kids thinking that you realize actually the entire culture is kind of like debauched you

01:18:45.700 know like there's kind of like gross and um immediate and it's not very conducive to creating

01:18:55.880 a better world tomorrow and i i think about this a lot this is just like

01:19:01.140 what must other people think of us right because i mean i know that like a lot of the criticisms of

01:19:07.840 quite hardline islamist are that we're a disgusting perverse culture and i'm like well 0.98

01:19:14.200 kind of and here's cardi b's wap you know and it's just like yeah that's kind of true 0.88

01:19:21.480 not i you know i don't like their religion i don't respect those people i don't want to do

01:19:26.440 what they want to do the some of their critiques do cut a bit close to home right so that's how i

01:19:35.600 kind of felt in eastern europe too with with uh russian critiques of america it's like well look

01:19:43.300 at what you're doing to your kids in school yep not sure what i can say about that yeah i can't

01:19:50.320 can't you got us there to be honest you know yeah well that was very interesting thank you so much

01:19:59.640 for taking the time to talk to me that was fun oh my pleasure sorry it felt a little more serious

01:20:04.760 than i thought it was going to be actually like i i felt you know i i'd you know seen a few

01:20:10.160 speeches not this um heavy tonally normally and so i thought we'd just end up having quite a fun

01:20:16.100 conversation but then you sort of like open with questions i like have been thinking about and

01:20:20.420 couldn't help but kind of just just you know big brain dump okay well here are my thoughts on it

01:20:26.100 and you know i think they're quite existential and we need to think about them you know

01:20:30.280 um so i hope it wasn't too too much or anything no no no not at all that was way better that was

01:20:37.760 good i wanted to go i guess i wanted to go deep that was fun so thank you that was great uh thank

01:20:42.700 you very much for coming on it's my pleasure honestly i really appreciate the invite it's

01:20:46.920 really good

The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - November 30, 2023

How to Avoid Going With the Latest Fad ｜ Carl Benjamin

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