00:00:00.000It's just unbearable, like it's crap.0.99
00:00:02.480Bad quality, bad writing, Disney held children's attention.0.99
00:00:07.380For a while, they were good stewards of that attention.
00:00:10.040Like a lot of the entertainment industry, they've become captured by ideology.
00:00:13.900And ideology makes for boring stories.
00:00:15.820You always have to kind of look twice at what your kid is reading.
00:00:18.580You know, it's so insipid, there's people just trying to get into your child's mind.
00:00:22.200sadly disney was just dropping these fairy tales they were like we don't want these
00:00:31.600you know we actually don't like them anymore and so i thought this would be a great time to do this
00:00:36.480jonathan pageau welcome to my podcast it's great to see you again michaela how much do you think
00:00:43.820um social media has to play in the last decade of weirdness like i feel like in 2012
00:00:51.020there were there were some like i was in university and you could kind of see some of the woke stuff
00:00:56.740coming into play but because there wasn't such a strong online social media following for these
00:01:03.340things they didn't blow up as fast do you think that's why we're seeing such ups and downs and
00:01:08.700chaos and politics and things because like everybody can suddenly get kind of a one certain
00:01:15.160idea and one way of thinking and they're just spammed with that information that's right i think
00:01:19.520that's the right way to see it is that, you know, in a normal, in a normal, let's say just 30 years
00:01:25.300ago or 20 years ago, you could watch the news and be funneled into a certain idea, you know,
00:01:31.520or you could even be manipulated. I mean, it's not like propaganda is a new thing. It's something
00:01:35.140that's existed for a very long time. And so you could get kind of dragged into propaganda, but
00:01:40.100then, you know, that would last a certain amount of time and you would move away from that. And
00:01:44.020then you would encounter other people and you would live your life. And there'd be a kind of
00:01:47.740organic reality where you're constantly surrounded by people that have different opinions, different
00:01:52.080ideas, different things that they value. But now what happens with the online world is that in some
00:01:57.020ways, again, like what I said before, is you can fall into one thread and then you can have massive
00:02:03.600reinforcement in that thread. You can find yourself surrounded by people online. You can
00:02:09.720find yourself surrounded by people who only agree with you and are completely in line with this one
00:02:14.800thing that you are aiming towards so that's true for as it's as true for kind of weird
00:02:20.620fetishistic thing or little people who get obsessed by certain cultural you know cultural
00:02:25.880let's say cultural niches but then it also becomes true for political ideas as well where
00:02:32.360people just get dragged into something and it's people have become way easier to manipulate now
00:02:37.180with social media for sure how do you specifically avoid being manipulated by social media like do
00:02:43.580ever find yourself thinking one way a little too strongly and you're like maybe i need to see the
00:02:48.640other side or do you use like a moral compass how do you figure it out i probably am manipulated
00:02:55.480sometimes you know that is i'm not i wouldn't be surprised if that happened what i hope is that
00:03:01.980in some ways similar to some of the things that your father has developed that if you have a sense
00:03:08.160of how reality has a left and a right hand you could say and how you know every movement in one
00:03:13.460direction hides something, you know, a kind of ignorance of another movement in another direction.
00:03:19.280I think I kind of have an internal clock where when I see things going too far, when I see
00:03:24.360things getting pushed, my mind immediately reverts to asking, you know, a question from
00:03:29.960the other perspective. And that is, you know, on the one hand, it is definitely, I think,
00:03:35.300something valuable. It can sometimes work against you because people will accuse you of not taking
00:03:41.320strong positions on certain things that they think are important. And because that I tend to do that,
00:03:46.520that I always tend to look at a story and then try to embody it within the story, the different
00:03:52.040characters and see things from different perspectives. It means that, you know, I often
00:03:57.200don't, I don't take as strong positions as others have, you know, in certain even political
00:04:03.420situations. Yeah, I can see that. Sometimes you actually need people who just see one direction.
00:04:09.160like that's that's something that's very useful sometimes because you know when critical problems
00:04:15.140arise you have to be able to filter out the other position and you have to just be able like you
00:04:20.020know if you're being robbed on the street you you it's that's not the time to ask yourself you know
00:04:24.120if you can understand the world through the position of the person robbing you you kind of
00:04:27.940have to react very quickly uh so so i think that that there is value in be in not being able to do
00:04:34.160that but myself i tend to do that all the time yeah i think i tend to do that as well um which
00:04:41.500and i think i get that wrong sometimes by seeing the other side's position a little bit too well
00:04:46.880being like well i can see how they got there and like it doesn't sometimes it doesn't really matter
00:04:51.040how they got there or what the reasons are behind it if the place you end up is not a good place
00:04:56.120happy thanksgiving forget my gravelly voice i'm getting over the plague given to me by
00:05:02.200I think my brother, but I'm surviving and I want to make money. So I'm here reading ads.
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00:06:10.940your Thanksgiving was wonderful. Mine was. My parents are staying with us. So that's been fun.
00:06:16.580Enjoy the rest of this episode. Yeah, ideally, that would be the best would be the best would
00:06:21.700be to be able to play it out. And once you've played it out is to say, I can I think I can
00:06:26.420see all the positions of this and now I think this is the morally superior this is the best
00:06:30.560position to to hold I mean I think that during during the COVID stuff you know at some point I
00:06:36.400I could understand how people got caught up in the narrative and got caught up in the story and just
00:06:40.820got but at some point I was like no like this is you know it's like when the truckers came out
00:06:45.300I'm like I'm sorry I'm going to Ottawa you know it's like I I just I just have to take a position
00:06:50.980even though it's not popular and even though I can understand why others are still in this in this
00:06:55.900kind of mind the circle but I had to take a position at that point did you actually go so
00:07:01.000you were there you saw the protests yeah I didn't know that it was really it was great and it it
00:07:06.600just reinforced my vision that the media is absolutely corrupt in every way you know this
00:07:12.280is something that actually started with me with Jordan with your father it was the first time in
00:07:17.9202016 that I was faced with you know the narrative of someone I knew and that I talked to and that
00:07:24.600I exchanged with and that I had a sense of. And then seeing what the media were saying at the
00:07:28.900same time and thinking, they're lying. Like, they're just lying. They're just not telling
00:07:33.980the truth. And then since then, I've become more and more suspicious. And of course,
00:07:39.800you know, during COVID, it just became insane. And when I was at the trucker protest,
00:07:44.900you know, I mean, it was a protest. Obviously, it was a protest. But it's funny that the media
00:07:49.820portrayed it so in such a crazy vision when just a few years before at the beginning of covid we
00:07:56.780literally had cities burning in the united states people breaking down things you know during the
00:08:02.020george floyd protest and now we had this this protest with maybe a few things went wrong maybe
00:08:07.260a few people exaggerated but the media were were were showing them as basically a bunch of psycho
00:08:13.380nazis which was hilarious because that's not what was there yeah yeah wild uh i was i was
00:08:21.280i mean i haven't trusted the media i think i think my mind changed too when i started seeing
00:08:26.680like dad portrayed as a really evil person i was like whoa that's yeah that's not even a twist on
00:08:33.320reality that's just falsehood which which is scary but um i think all the media institutions
00:08:42.260are going to fade away into oblivion anyway, unless they adapt, which they don't seem to be.
00:08:47.480So they're probably old news. Yeah. They seem to have taken,
00:08:51.200tried to take on, like, you know, you watch these news institutions try to take on
00:08:55.360just a detail, just a blip. It's like, oh, this little comedian doing a podcast. It's just
00:09:02.060hilarious that they're so blind to what's actually happening. Yeah. Okay. So I watched some clips
00:09:09.240from the recent debate it was the republican debate and i don't know how up to date you are
00:09:15.160on american politics are you at all i did not okay i just watched i just watched the popular
00:09:21.100ones that were circulating around instagram i didn't actually watch the debate but i've i've
00:09:26.240seen quite a bit of what um rfk is talking about and he seems to be the person that's like in the
00:09:33.620middle which is probably how i've what my political stance is more than conservative or liberal and so
00:09:42.340i was watching a clip he did saying you know the left has gone too far the right has gone too far
00:09:46.640and you know they're it's just part of the same monster with two heads and they're fighting each
00:09:50.980other and it's going to lead to the downfall of the u.s if we don't end up somewhere in the middle
00:09:55.700uh and then so i was like yeah i could stand behind that but then do you think because of the
00:10:05.480situation we're in in the u.s and in canada there needs to be more pushback from the right to
00:10:11.880counteract what's happening with the left or do you think it's possible for somebody to come up
00:10:16.440in the middle and say hey you guys are both part of the problem let's try and go forward in the
00:10:22.040middle yeah i don't want to be a doomsayer but i think it's i think it's too late yeah at some
00:10:30.900point it's like there's when the pendulum starts to swing at some point you could say well i wish
00:10:36.340it was just stable but it's coming at you and so it's difficult because on the one hand the one
00:10:41.820side is pushing really hard for things that have become totally crazy you know and you know when
00:10:47.980we talk about the whole problem of, you know, of, of mutilating children with the, with the whole0.93
00:10:54.420transgender question, you know, at some point you think, well, you know, we have to, we have to push0.99
00:10:59.420back, you know, just for the sake of the, the, the life of these, these people. But then on the0.99
00:11:04.040other side, they really feel like they're saving lives when they're doing it. So you have this,
00:11:09.340you have this pendulum that's swinging and these things that are kind of going at full force at
00:11:13.520each other and it's difficult to compromise you know it's very difficult to compromise so
00:11:18.020i don't i can't see in the short term how it's going to settle i think that there's a desire
00:11:29.140possibly and this is sad and tragic to pull the attention away from this into something exterior
00:11:37.500like a war let's say because that does it like if you have a war then you bring people together
00:11:44.160um but that is also a very sad state of affairs so i i don't see a good way out of this and and
00:11:51.520i do feel like that's what's happening is that you know that there's a desire for war so that
00:11:57.380we can find some kind of median and so or at least some kind of common purpose that will
00:12:02.400prevent us from just ripping each other apart that's interesting i i haven't considered that
00:12:09.500that seems right though because it is i guess when there's something as terrible as war then
00:12:14.680people come together and go okay although the current war you know the most recent one it's
00:12:20.840dividing it's dividing everybody it's insane i've never seen anything like it it's not
00:12:25.300yeah it's not a it's not it's not going to work you know there was this idea that we could all
00:12:30.920get behind Ukraine and if we could just all get behind Ukraine uh then we'll be united there's
00:12:36.220also you know that's one of the reasons for the environmental apocalypticism is also this0.89
00:12:42.620you know it's like I think a lot of it is a lot of it is anti-human and ridiculous but you can
00:12:50.840kind of understand the drive behind it because people say well if we could just all agree that
00:12:54.860we have to save the earth then maybe we could just get along you know like this this we could
00:12:59.280come together as a globe you know you hear globalists say things like that that you know
00:13:03.820this is ways to clump together as a globe we i recently heard from a wf panel where the the
00:13:10.620a woman was talking about how the next crisis will or maybe should be about water because we can all
00:13:17.000agree on water right if like there was a water crisis that's what we want we would all then we
00:13:21.700would all come together and then we would you know we would come together as a globe uh and you know
00:13:26.760even if you want to push it even stranger in the stranger directions uh do you know do you have
00:13:32.620you ever heard of watchmen the graphic novel watchmen that came out in the 1980s well that
00:13:37.220in that graphic novel is a great idea which was if you could fake an uh extraterrestrial attack
00:13:44.080then you would all come together you know and so it's like you just need something outside of you
00:13:51.020that is like a common point of attention that that joins you together and you know and in some
00:13:56.560ways you know that is in some ways what hopefully people worshiping God should be doing right that's
00:14:04.640what that should be for is the idea that there's something beyond you that is able to capture your
00:14:10.020attention and that is able to to be something that we can all have in common sadly it has not
00:14:15.520always played that role as we know but that is ultimately what that should be for yeah I agree
00:14:22.840how do you go to people so i i only started believing in god maybe two years ago and we
00:14:31.580had a conversation since then uh and before that i couldn't wrap my head around it i didn't
00:14:36.680understand what it was and i didn't understand what people meant when they said they believed
00:14:40.740in god it's like i don't even know what that means have you found a way to talk to people who
00:14:46.580are like agnostic or atheist might be even too far but like agnostic who are trying to grasp the
00:14:54.000concept of god have you figured out how to kind of explain what you see i don't know if i've
00:15:00.080yeah i don't know if i've figured it out i think it's true that a lot of the work that i've been
00:15:04.500doing especially on youtube or you know the podcast has been with that goal is to help to
00:15:10.160bridge the gap and to help people understand not just secular atheist people but even some people
00:15:15.920who kind of believe in God, sometimes they do so with a normal kind of naive, but not a naive,
00:15:24.420but something like a very simple intuition, you know. And because of that, sometimes because they
00:15:31.460do it with a simple intuition, when they try to explain it to other people, they end up sounding0.96
00:15:36.940ridiculous. Like they end up saying things that freak people out. And so, you know, one of the
00:15:43.680hopes that I've had is that some of the things that I say are able to help people who believe
00:15:47.880with that kind of simple intuition formulated better and help atheists also understand what
00:15:53.800it is that's going on. And there are different ways to do it. You know, for example, I just did
00:15:59.420this speech at ARC about the idea of the good, right, in the Platonic sense, like of the capital
00:16:07.800g good and the idea that you know we have to have something which transcends our desires and it
00:16:14.480transcends all the things that we think are good you know like we have things that we think are
00:16:18.540good you know like safety or family or you know or success or there's all these things that we
00:16:24.220think are good and you know usually that's fine but as soon as we treat any of those things as the
00:16:29.720very highest good then all of a sudden it becomes something like a like a tyrant over us you know
00:16:35.960And that's obviously what someone who becomes, I don't know, becomes an alcoholic is. It's like, yeah, you can drink with friends and it's pleasant and it's fun. But if all of a sudden you start to submit your whole world to that feeling that you get when you're drinking, then something which is fine, like which is a good becomes a tyrant over you that starts to rule over you.
00:16:52.020And, you know, that can happen for food, it can happen for sex, it can happen for anything, like anything, even things that we find virtuous, like success or whatever. And so, you know, I try to help people say, like, that's the idea. One of the ideas that religious people have is that the good is ineffable, right? The good is something which is beyond everything you can imagine.
00:17:11.240and what that does is it's like just don't think that whatever you're aiming at now is it because
00:17:17.720you can always know that it's it's it has to be embedded in something else even if you don't know
00:17:22.560what that is even if you can't identify it even if you don't go you know if you don't you know
00:17:27.840believe that God exists it doesn't matter as long as you cannot hold on to something and think like
00:17:32.240you know if I could just have that then everything will be settled and you know that's not true
00:17:37.160because once you get it, you know, either it kind of rules over you
00:17:40.160because you have to keep feeding it or it disappoints you
00:17:59.380But that's why the idea of ineffable good, like the idea that if you could,
00:18:03.060like because people would think that if I could just get that,
00:18:05.340You have you. Yeah, yeah. All the time. I'm like that sometimes. The worst thing that could happen. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But the worst thing that could happen is that you get it right. It's like if you think that your life will be solved once you get a million dollars, then, yeah, let's talk when you get that, because you're going to you're probably going to be pretty depressed because it's not going to solve your problems.
00:18:25.100you'll still be the same person everything but you know it won't change anything it'll just
00:18:28.580increase actually your uh possibly increase the problems that you had at the outset you know
00:18:34.780and so uh and so this idea that at least you know like that whatever it is that you desire that
00:18:41.260you're going after is not the highest thing that you always have to balance it out with other goods
00:18:46.580and that you have to aim it towards higher and higher goods ultimately you know that's love
00:19:18.420Like you can't control the infinite, you know?
00:19:20.600so how do you describe that other than the good is there do you use words like truth and love
00:19:27.080yeah is that what people should be aiming for as opposed to and then how do you separate the
00:19:32.920difference between goal setting which is important but making sure that you still have this aim
00:19:39.380towards truth and love and good at the top okay because goal setting is great trying to achieve
00:19:45.020things that aim vaguely upward but you don't well that's what that would be the case the case is
00:19:51.220that you if you make sure that your goal setting is is aimed upward then that will you know that
00:19:58.060will help like if you're if your goal is to buy a lamborghini then that's not going to do much for
00:20:05.100you like i'm sorry to say you will get it maybe you'll get it but then what is it going to do but
00:20:09.440If your goal is to accomplish something, you know, for example, to, you know, to be able to let your family have cohesion, right, to have loving relationships with others, to be able to help those that you see that are in need, and that, you know, you know that you have to have a certain amount of success.
00:20:25.800Or if you want to spread a message that you think is powerful and meaningful and can help others, all these goals can be something, like you said, that can give you that dopamine, like can give you that energy to continue to keep going.
00:20:37.900but then what will happen hopefully is that there's never there's never uh first of all you
00:20:43.620never reach it right it's like if the idea for example having a loving relationship with your
00:20:47.880friends or with your family it's like that's a goal but it's not a goal that has an end point
00:20:52.100it's like it's actually an infinite goal it's something that recedes as you move towards it
00:20:56.220and you kind of love that because it's you know you can always be surprised by people and kind
00:21:00.340of be stimulated and that ultimately is the idea of you know of a relationship with god is that god
00:21:06.440pulls you into higher and higher states of virtue you know states of peace you know all of these
00:21:13.840things that these are the goals we should we should want and material goals are they're fine
00:21:18.560but they they won't bring you what you what you think sometimes yeah so going after success for
00:21:24.260material goods is probably a hedonistic way of living and probably not going to get you where
00:21:29.200you want but going after success so that you can do something that benefits people as a whole
00:21:38.020Yeah. And also, I mean, if you, for example, if you understand that you want to be an example for
00:21:42.460your children, you want to be an example for people around you. And so you want to be disciplined,
00:21:46.680you want to do things right. You know, all of these things are definitely good. They're all
00:21:53.980good things. And even like you said, like if you want to succeeding in business, all these things
00:21:58.040can be great, just as long as they're embedded in higher things. If they're just for their own sake,
00:22:04.940then then then you'll then you'll just be disappointed you know because they don't have
00:22:09.640enough to to you know it's it says it's it's very you people can understand it like in lower terms
00:22:16.260like if you if your entire goal in life is eating is eating is eating good food then you'll always
00:22:23.200be empty because it's not enough to sustain you as a human being it's enough to maybe sustain the
00:22:28.000machine but you'll find yourself lacking and and and always either trying to increase your
00:22:33.880you know your pleasure like trying to find more and more rare more and more subtle things to
00:22:39.000enjoy but at some point that runs out and you you you become yeah you'll just you'll find yourself
00:22:45.060in a sad position how did you introduce these concepts to your kids have you been talking
00:22:51.780about these kind of pursuing higher goods since they were little yeah but i mean if you raise your
00:22:58.260kids i think if you raise your kids in a christian vision and with with christian values if and if
00:23:04.960you do that understanding that it's not just about some sectarian theological thing that you have to
00:23:09.880believe but it's really a way of living then then ultimately i think those things will kind of set
00:23:15.540themselves into your kids uh on on their own you know for example like a simple thing is something
00:23:22.000like that truth is important right just that because truth if you say truth is more important
00:23:27.600than your immediate needs so it's not justified to lie to get what you want it's not justified
00:23:33.560to trick others or to you know to to act in this in a dishonest way then you're already setting
00:23:39.840your kids on the on the right path just just even that is is a lot so that they so that they see but
00:23:47.100obviously saying it is one thing that doesn't do much but living it that's the way to go because
00:23:53.820your kids they watch you they don't listen to you yeah they really well they listen they listen too
00:23:58.700but they mostly watch and they'll they'll so the best thing you can do as a parent is actually
00:24:03.520embody the things you believe are are the best rather than just teach them i think when i my
00:24:09.740my dad obviously like was very big on that like tell the truth there's nothing worse than lying
00:24:16.320whatever lie you come up with is just going to bite you in the future and it turns your life
00:24:21.520into hell like he was but um i didn't really understand the impact of lying when i was little
00:24:27.060because sometimes i get in trouble for doing something and then it was easier at the time to
00:24:32.140lie to not get in trouble yeah and so uh scarlet recently she did something she wasn't even going
00:24:39.700to get in trouble like she i don't she doesn't really get in trouble um she's she's pretty easy0.99
00:24:45.280kid but she and i could tell she was lying she just lied about something small because she thought
00:24:50.620i was going to be mad and i had to explain that's that's still not an excuse to lie but um i've also
00:24:58.160decided for like parenting style that i don't get mad really um and maybe it's because she's little
00:25:06.100she's six and so maybe you don't get mad at like kids under six because they're children and i
00:25:12.900don't know if anger is the right emotion for a little kid yeah it's more like why did you do
00:25:18.420that what exactly is going on and why are you acting that way not like anger um but what do
00:25:25.920you think about that uh that reaction like is there a is there a time and place for like anger
00:25:32.360for kids because i do feel like if you have an angry parent then they end up lying to not get
00:25:37.700punished which is like you don't want to teach a kid that that's the way to get away with things
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00:27:16.680time. Links in the comments. Enjoy the rest of this episode. I would say that anger is important.
00:27:25.020This is going to be controversial for people, but there is a reality to a certain extent in which
00:27:31.560people have to learn to have a certain amount of healthy fear of their authority, right? In the
00:27:41.660So if a police officer comes to arrest you, you have to know that you cannot resist arrest.
00:27:47.040Like you have to know that you have to be polite and you have to follow along with what the authority tells you.
00:27:52.700And this is something that you learn when you're very young.
00:27:55.440So I think that with children, one of the things you can do, for example, is to reserve anger for very rare things.
00:28:06.180Because, of course, the problem that you have is that if you get angry all the time, that at some point it's just noise and you see that.
00:28:12.640Like you've seen parents are just always screaming at their kids.
00:28:15.800And basically the kids have just like, they've learned to tune it out and they just don't care and they just don't listen anymore.
00:28:21.340And so I think that, you know, if you are usually very calm and very, you know, just very peaceful with your kids and try to explain things and to do things.
00:28:31.320I think that once in a while, if they really step out of bounds, if you raise your voice, if you just show that you're angry, then the effect of it will be very strong.
00:28:43.760And the kid will, you know, because they know that this is not a normal thing.
00:28:46.660And if it happens, it means something really serious has happened.
00:37:22.040I might keep that part of the story because of because especially because of the recent excess of a plastic surgery.
00:37:29.900You know, it's like it's a it's a big thing in the culture.
00:37:32.400And so I want to be I want people to be able to understand the dangers of it.
00:37:36.940You know, like if you if you if you cut piece and even not just even in terms of, you know, in terms of cutting things off you in order to fit a certain mold, let's say, you know, you see that with mastectomies and all this kind of crazy things that are happening to young teenagers.
00:37:52.040girls right now so I think having the the the stepsisters cut their toes off will be important
00:37:58.040I'll have to find a way to do it so that it's not gory and and crazy but I think these things are
00:38:03.100important you know so like there's a lot of these fairy tales there's a lot of things they can
00:38:06.580communicate to us for example in Snow White you know the magic mirror there are some versions
00:38:11.340where she had the magic mirror in her hand and that the illustrator that's working with me Heather
00:38:15.940Paulington she's like we should use that version that she holds it in her hand and she made an
00:38:20.200illustration of it and it's like she's holding a phone right she's just looking at herself and
00:38:24.880taking a selfie you know and we're like yeah that's exactly it and so the phone that the mirror
00:38:31.060is speaking to her and is comparing her to others and is telling her who's the most beautiful and is
00:38:36.740pointing out her faults and her beauty and it's like yeah that's right that's the right time to
00:38:42.660bring up these kind of these kind of story tropes oh that's creepy yeah well so are you putting a
00:38:49.920modern spin on these then well so you could say that it yeah it's there i'm careful not to be
00:38:56.520like we say these things i don't explain any of this in the story it's not like yeah i don't i
00:39:00.920don't i don't want it to be didactic it's not uh but i would say that the the way that we make
00:39:07.280certain elements of the story more prominent uh that's the way we do it so it's like you know
00:39:11.980making the mirror prominent making these moments where she looks at herself and she kind of gets
00:39:16.340feedback from it and she becomes obsessed at some point in my version where she's she actually she
00:39:21.020can't stop herself from looking in the mirror and constantly asking it if it's and as she's doing
00:39:25.240that she's kind of destroying herself you know she's making her she's destroying herself because
00:39:29.320of her jealousy towards snow white and so it's like i'm hoping that people even if it's not
00:39:34.140conscious will kind of gather they'll be able to gather those those insights into themselves and
00:39:39.780children will see the pattern of behavior even if even though i never say that it's like a phone or
00:40:07.120The Disney Snow White, it's not just...
00:40:09.620It's weird because the Disney story of Snow White,
00:40:12.380it's really the beginning of a whole era
00:40:14.660because people don't realize that it's the very first long form animated movie ever made is disney
00:40:21.540snow white people didn't believe that it was possible people were like you can't make an
00:40:25.500you can't make an hour and a half animation right animation should be 10 minutes or should be these
00:40:30.380little clips but disney really took it on and made this amazing and invented all these technologies
00:40:36.080all these new ways of animating in order to to to develop this movie um and so and and and people
00:40:43.420were just amazed at it and it started a whole like an entire century where basically disney
00:40:49.160held children's attention and kind of ruled over children's attention and for a while they
00:40:54.900were good stewards of that attention because the stories they put out were very powerful and
00:40:59.840beautiful and they also had that balance you know that that your father or that i talk about that
00:41:06.060should be in a kind of mythical story where you have everything is there and kind of balanced out
00:41:11.160but then you know they like all of a lot of the entertainment industry they've become captured by
00:41:16.560ideology and ideology makes for boring stories so it's a it's actually and the same what happening
00:41:22.640in books too i mean you have a child you know that you go into a bookstore to buy books for kids and0.64
00:41:27.360it's just unbearable like it's crap it's just bad quality bad writing ideology everywhere you know
00:41:34.260it's like you you you have to you always have to kind of look twice at what your kid is reading0.98
00:41:39.300because you, you know, it's so insipid, there's people just trying to get into your child's mind
00:41:43.780in order to convert them to their cause, that you have to be attentive to that. And so in some ways,
00:41:50.000that's a horrible place that a lot of parents find themselves in, but it's also an opportunity
00:41:54.320for people who want to tell good stories. Because in a moment of really bad, horrible, boring,
00:42:00.280ideological stories, then good stories should shine brighter. And so I would say, encourage
00:42:05.500people to it's okay to criticize i do it all the time but not just criticize but hopefully you know
00:42:11.580take on the mantle yourself you know learn the stories tell them to your kids encourage people
00:42:15.760that are doing it uh and i think that we could i think that we we're going to win in the end because
00:42:21.600there's a reality to these stories that is objective that there's a reason why we care
00:42:26.800for them there's a reason why we why we love them for centuries is because they have something
00:42:31.900mysterious in them that is true to human attention that has that is true to what people care about
00:42:37.400even if we don't understand what that is you know it's still there because we've been telling these
00:42:42.440stories for centuries so if you try to go away from that to just push your ideological ideas
00:42:47.960then people will just stop caring they'll just find it boring and that's what's happening
00:42:52.680isn't it crazy how much jk rowling has been gone after in the last like four years isn't it insane
00:43:02.800for a book that everybody who's going after her read and loves 15 and loves it's it's like that
00:43:13.560really shocks me even like the response and twitter's well x now is such a weird and could
00:43:19.980be toxic plaque platform but it just shocks me the response to jk rowling who wrote these stories
00:43:26.880that are unbelievable yeah about it's interesting like this is this is what happens like even with
00:43:33.680the this is what like this is what happened with snow white and this is what happened with harry
00:43:37.880potter is that these stories have in them true patterns of human existence and those patterns
00:43:45.460have certain structures, certain categories that just play themselves out. And if you catch them
00:43:51.000right, then people love those stories. That's why people love Star Wars. That's why people love
00:43:55.380these stories. But those are real, like they really do exist. And so the weird position
00:44:03.200people find themselves in is loving Harry Potter, because it basically captures the patterns of
00:44:10.780human attention, but then at the same time hating Harry Potter because they're caught up in their
00:44:16.160ideological thing. And what they want is that they hope is that they could twist Harry Potter
00:44:20.940to their will. Like they could make Harry Potter into something that would fit their ideology.
00:44:27.020And obviously they're trying to do that with the author first. It's like, if we can just shame the
00:44:32.500author into believing the things we believe and going along with what we think is true, you know,
00:44:37.600then, then we'll win and we'll have Harry Potter on our side. But the problem is that the problem
00:44:43.200is that the Harry Potter that would come out of that, you would hate it. You would find it boring.
00:44:47.600You would find it annoying because it would just be propaganda. And so it's like this weird moment
00:44:54.000that it's like the J.K. Rowling thing is a great example of how insane and contradictory this is,
00:44:59.560you know, because it's like, you love Star Wars. And then you're like, oh, this is so cool. We're
00:45:04.760gonna take it over and we're gonna we're gonna just make it fit in this beautiful political
00:45:08.880thing and then why does everybody hate the movies why is it that these things are all failing you
00:45:13.740know that's how it is it's just yeah it's funny it is funny um how do you feel so my husband grew
00:45:22.100up in a very christian household and his family's really like a really good they're all really good
00:45:28.300people which i and i feel like i didn't meet very many really good people weirdly enough i guess i
00:45:34.500don't know if they're not very common or something i don't know what was going on or the schools i
00:45:38.780was at or something so i was like surprised at how good they were but he didn't watch harry potter
00:45:42.600growing up um because there was this and i remember hearing about this when i was in grade
00:45:47.640two where it was like there's a subset of people that think harry potter's evil yeah like and
00:45:52.900mostly like christian people that think you know it's witchcraft and that's evil um what are your
00:45:58.520views on that and how do you well i know what my views are on that i probably know what your views
00:46:04.000are on that but like how how come that got confused into oh that's evil instead of looking
00:46:09.480at the overarching theme of like good versus evil that's in harry potter okay so christians don't
00:46:16.540like witchcraft and don't like magic you know uh but those same christians would they'll read lord
00:46:24.660of the rings and they'll love lord of the rings right and so yeah those same christians will read
00:46:28.660c.s lewis and they'll love c.s lewis but in those books like in lord of the rings basically lord of
00:46:33.780the Rings is the template for all fantasy fiction that we have. And so the idea of sorcerers and
00:46:40.460all this kind of stuff that Tolkien was able to bring together crystallized a kind of medieval
00:46:46.080mythology, you could say, of Merlin and all of these kind of characters that existed in the West
00:46:51.960into modern narrative. And that became the background and the trope for everything
00:46:58.240that came afterwards including Harry Potter and so it's like you like you like Gandalf but you
00:47:05.860hate Dumbledore it's like I understand and so and so but I think it's it's so you could say that in
00:47:12.760in in Lord of the Rings the magic is meant to serve a higher purpose right it's like the things
00:47:20.480we do this power that we have is meant to serve higher and higher purposes and the problem with
00:47:26.320kind of modern magic or occultist magic is that magic is meant to serve your will. And I think
00:47:34.320that this is, in some ways, the problem that people face when they look at Harry Potter. It's
00:47:38.000like magic is just like a bunch of technical things. It's just like an increase in power.
00:47:43.040And it's not clear whether or not it is meant to serve the higher good. It's just like, here's a
00:47:50.880power you have, you can develop it, and you can kind of develop all the technical skills around
00:47:54.620it so i think that that's that's what's hiding behind that but on the surface it's just like you
00:48:00.080know witchcraft is is devil worship and they they relate the occult to to you know to kind of
00:48:07.420satanism or witchcraft the way that it was represented in the uh in in the 16th 17th century
00:48:13.340in europe so i i understand people's aversion to to harry potter like i get it it's but i i think
00:48:20.520that it's a little simple let's say you know i i still think that in general they're good stories
00:48:25.560okay how do you feel about halloween then the end the aversion yeah that's just this is really i
00:48:30.680think halloween's a good example of what you could call a puritan spirit taken too far which is this
00:48:38.100is the same type of attitude that took all the weird stuff out of the fairy tales which is this
00:48:42.620idea that everything has to have this kind of transparent purity to it. And everything has to
00:48:50.480be, you know, objectively, how can I say this, like, objectively, always, like, like, I could
00:48:59.460just say that transparently pure, right. But the reality is that the world doesn't, doesn't,
00:49:03.440doesn't work that way. You know, it's like, it just, it just doesn't, it's, the world is more
00:49:07.840complicated and more messy than you think and uh you know for carnivals and festivals of inversion
00:49:15.620are everywhere and in every culture what's what's a festival a festival of inversion yeah an upside
00:49:22.100down festival right so a carnival is something like that so think about uh you know during a
00:49:28.440carnival you do things that you usually don't do you dress up you wear masks you you know you you
00:49:34.860usually there's acrobatics involved, people spinning and turning upside down and making jokes
00:49:39.220and pulling tricks and doing all these things that are not straightforward. It's like, you know,
00:49:44.800you have things that are straightforward and directed towards purpose and identity. And then
00:49:49.060you also have a kind of messiness and inversion and upside down behavior that you can notice on
00:49:55.220the edge. And that's what carnivals of inversions are. And every culture has them. So usually like
00:50:01.180before a fast you know if you before uh before lent for christians they would have something
00:50:06.880called mardi gras which you've probably seen mardi gras parades you know obviously now they've become
00:50:11.520crazy but they've always been a little bit like that they've always been a little you know a
00:50:16.760little off color you know lewd maybe a little there's a bit of uh you know there's cross-dressing0.86
00:50:23.120and and uh and funny things that don't make sense you know people on stilts or you know all this
00:50:29.160kind of aesthetic. You could call it an aesthetic of chaos or an aesthetic of inversion. And that
00:50:37.340serves a function in a society, right? So basically you have order, right? You have the ordered world
00:50:42.640that everything is ordered and purposeful and moving towards what it's supposed to be. But then
00:50:47.620you know that those things exist, right? You know that there are messy, chaotic things, and there
00:50:53.860are monsters and there are there are places where things don't fit and inversions and excesses and
00:50:59.560all that you know and so carnival festivals basically take them out to play for one day
00:51:05.100and then put them back right and what that does is it acts like a valve first of all to let some
00:51:11.880of that stuff out because it builds up after a while and it also acts as a reminder of what's
00:51:16.160normal it's like a counter example it's saying this is carnival all right let's have fun now
00:51:24.300for a day and let's be a little wild and now let's go back to normal so it's like oh that's
00:51:28.820what normal is and that's what not normal is so you kind of you kind of understand how that works
00:51:33.660and and halloween that's what halloween is i mean halloween is basically you know the a day of the
00:51:40.480dead where the dead walk the earth which is something that doesn't happen which is something
00:51:45.700It means that all the broken, kind of monstrous, chaotic, you know, funny, slightly sexy, slightly, you know, like all the things that we don't usually put outside in the world.
00:51:59.300Now, all of a sudden, they come out and we see them and we're like, wow, this is crazy.
00:52:03.940It's kind of like going to a county fair and going on, you know, and looking at all the bright lights and all the people dressed up and the clowns and all that.
01:01:03.480so let's look at it objectively like let's look at it objectively the greatest even in terms of
01:01:11.720total red pill let me take a red pill position here for a moment it's like the empires that
01:01:17.680have been the most powerful and have lasted the longest and have had the most reach you could say
01:01:27.120let's let's say rome for example rome was mainly was mainly monogamous in its in its structure
01:01:35.560although there was a kind of practical polygamy where you know guys would probably sleep around
01:01:39.480and stuff but like there was a there was a main monogamy in terms of social structure
01:01:44.340and then christianity takes that even further and then you know let's say
01:01:49.920there's a reason why the west expanded it to become almost a global a global influence and
01:01:59.040monogamy is is part of that because it is ultimately the best the best bond and the best
01:02:06.340way to to raise children that will have the strength and the capacity to to take over from
01:02:12.540you if there is that strong that strong bond and that strong relationship at least that's what i
01:02:17.640That's what I think. So I don't think I think that even in terms of, you know, the let's say that even in terms of the red pill bros that try to look at it just purely in terms of material causes, they should take into account the reason why the West developed in this direction and not think that it's purely accidental, that there are actual reasons why that happened.
01:02:39.320They probably just put themselves at the top and they're like, no, I'm the outlier, though. I can do it.
01:02:45.020thing that's the thing about all these guys that's hilarious is that is like you think that's right
01:02:49.920but then then you think you're going to be the one with the 12 wives or you're just going to be the
01:02:53.960eunuch who's castrated and is protecting the harem it's like that's not a you know it's not it's not
01:02:59.800a great uh you know it's just funny that people always think that they're going to be at the top
01:03:03.900when like you see that in a lot of people that are kind of that have a tendency towards monarchism
01:03:10.440uh you know sometimes you talk to them and you realize it's because oh you think you're going
01:03:14.600to be the king that's why you're that's why you have that position that's funny yes that's exactly
01:03:20.100it though that's definitely it oh that's good okay well jonathan it was nice talking to you
01:03:28.020i'm really excited about your books i think they'll be so good for people i'm definitely
01:03:32.260getting them all oh thanks okay yeah i can't wait to hear what you think when you get them
01:03:36.620i'll be i'll be i'll be wonderful i'm like where's the gore no just kidding no i'm sure it'll be good
01:03:43.540it'll be good if i can read them to scarlet and there's not too much gore there's a little bit
01:03:49.240of gore okay good not a lot just to keep things spicy just there's a there is blood you can't
01:03:53.460have snow white without a bit of blood oh wow okay that sounds good well thank you again for coming